You look so good. Look like you're going to court.
You're not gonna make fun of my driving like you usually do?
I'm gonna make fun of everything you do this entire week.
I'm so dang excited you're here.
- Get your ass in the car now. - All right.
Man, I'm so excited that my good friend murray newman
Is coming to work with us on this next case.
I've known him forever. He's a legal super genius
And one of the smartest people that I know.
♪ better know better ♪
♪ better know this ♪
♪ every step and every breath ♪
I met you during the brian gonzalez trial
As you were an intern.
So you weren't even out of law school yet.
No. I was between my first and second year of law school, 1997.
Never been married before. I still had some hair.
You've known me longer than all your marriages added up.
- Oh, yeah. Easily. - I like that.
I'm excited, too.
Not just because it's you and we know each other so well.
All these years, you've been putting the case together, too,
Behind the scenes
For the probable cause, for the prosecutor.
And people don't know, but every day,
You and I sit and talk about everything
And figure out what we have and where we need to go.
So the strategizing, the true strategizing,
Has been you and me for 10 years.
Right.
I've been working on "cold justice" since the first season
As a legal consultant off camera.
Kelly and I worked at the district attorney's office,
So we both have the legal experience
Of being a prosecutor. But unlike kelly,
I've got the experience of being
A criminal defense attorney as well.
As a defense attorney, I have
A slightly different outlook on how circumstantial evidence
Can be used in trying to solve a case.
Hopefully, we can help lake station police figure out
Who murdered frank halcarz and prove it.
Siegler: What did you think when you first read it?
The overwhelming thing for me was just how sad it is.
This is an 89-year-old man who is a world war ii veteran,
Our country's national treasures,
And he's robbed and beaten
And just left in such an undignified manner.
It's heartbreaking.
Newman: Frank was a two-time widower
And a world war ii veteran
Known for having a heart of gold.
My grandfather fought in world war ii,
So I know firsthand
Why they called them the greatest generation.
When you look at what an honorable man that frank was,
It's absolutely horrendous to realize
How his life ended in such a cowardly and senseless way.
I was very close with my grandfather.
He was my biggest hero. I'd lose my mind
If anybody had ever treated my grandfather like that.
This is the kind of case you fight the hardest for,
Don't you think?
Absolutely. How's my driving so far?
- You're doing fine, honey. - [snickers]
- Peek: Hello. - Siegler: Hello. Good morning.
Detective peek. Nice to meet you.
- I'm kelly. - Murray newman.
- Captain perryman. - Assistant chief taylor.
Nice to meet you, sir.
- Jim richardson. - The boss.
Nice to meet you. We're excited to be here.
So back in 2007, what do you all remember about this case?
Seeing the body.
- Oh, you saw him? - Yes.
It's kind of rough sometimes
When you walk in and see an elderly gentleman
That you know is a veteran, so...
I think they're national treasures,
And they definitely don't deserve
To end up the way he did.
You all are super motivated on this one.
Absolutely. Yes.
Can you say why it hasn't been cleared yet?
We were in gary at the time, and we were dealing
With about 136 homicides that year.
Okay.
You have one detective assigned to the case,
And you have a certain amount of days to work the case.
Then you get more work piled on,
And when you hit that end, that's it.
That's one reason this show works,
Because we're forcing you
To give us these two guys for seven working days,
Which is a luxury you never really had on your cases.
So we get it. We hear it everywhere.
So thank you for letting us be here.
- Not a problem. - We're excited.
- We appreciate it. - Lead the way.
Perryman: We met back in '06.
We were forced to ride two-man unit for a long time
In gary, so...
It was like being married for 10 years, give or take.
Mm-hmm. I'm not saying we enjoy working these type of cases,
'cause you kind of hope they don't happen.
But, unfortunately, when it does,
We really enjoy that type of work.
Okay, so this is our picture of frank halcarz, sr.
- And he was how old? - Peek: 89.
I believe he was born in east chicago,
Which isn't far from here.
He's a world war ii veteran.
Talking with people from the neighborhood,
He's a great guy.
He visited the vfw from time to time,
And he just kind of kept to himself.
Siegler: Frank halcarz grew up around chicago.
He was a boy scout.
He joined the army from 1941 to 1945.
He was married twice, and he was also widowed twice.
His second wife passed away in 2005.
At the time of the murder, frank was living alone,
But he was still very close with his large blended family.
In fact, the last person he talked to
Was his step-granddaughter on October 26, 2007.
So we know what day frank was found.
- Halloween 2007. - Mm-hmm.
But we think the murder happened on Friday the 26th.
- Yes. - So he's out there five days.
Peek: Right. On October 31st, a friend found frank face down,
And he had a large hole in the back of his head,
Probably about two or three inches.
But he also had a laceration on his forehead,
So that could have been from him falling once he was struck.
Did he have any of this from defending himself at all?
- Not that I recall. - Wow. Okay.
He was found in the doorway.
It's like an enclosed front porch.
His rear pocket was pulled out.
- Which tells you... - They took his wallet.
Okay. What was the working theory back then
As far as what the weapon could have been?
Well, they did recover a sledgehammer,
And detectives believe that it was involved.
It was located on the railroad tracks just behind the house.
The hammer was found very close to the crime scene.
And when you look at it, compared to the wounds
On frank's head, we have a pretty good idea
That that was probably the murder weapon.
And it looks like he was unloading groceries
When he was attacked.
But did his killer follow him inside,
Or was he already inside, lying in wait?
Okay. Let's put up here "unknown suspect."
What first makes this pop up?
The report from his buddies.
And the buddies are guys he hangs out with where? Vfw?
It's a vfw. Yeah.
And frank tells the two guys at the vfw what?
Peek: He's been having trouble with neighborhood kids
That were stealing from him.
It's kind of the stuff that kids would do, right?
This doesn't look like a real professional kind of thing.
They were showing up and messing with his residence,
So that was always the talk.
"hey, these children could have been involved in it."
Siegler: We don't know the extent of the trouble
Frank was having with the local kids.
But because he was 89 years old,
He was a pretty easy target
For anybody who wanted to take advantage of him.
But they weren't the only ones he was having trouble with.
Let's talk about brandon scroggin,
Frank's step-grandson from his second marriage.
When did he get all these tattoos?
I know he got the face tattoos the day of and thereafter.
I'm gonna put them both up, okay?
And in 2007, brandon's how old?
- 23. - 23.
Peek: He stayed in a camper in the back of his residence.
Newman: I got the feeling that he was still trying
To be kind to brandon
Because his wife would have wanted it that way.
Peek: And frank was a great guy. He's helping out this kid.
Any prior convictions or arrests?
He has a jacket that's pretty huge.
Auto theft warrants from '05. Burglary, 2005.
Siegler: And we know he uses coke.
Correct.
August 4th,
Frank reports his gun and his welder missing.
And at that time, he mentioned brandon scroggin
Living in the trailer on the property.
- Two months before our murder. - Mm-hmm.
And there was issues before
About him stealing frank's debit card.
Siegler: Frank had accused brandon
Of stealing his debit cards in the past.
And we know that one of frank's credit cards
Was used after his death.
But was brandon the one using that?
We don't know. But those transactions
Could be the huge piece of this puzzle.
♪ I found heaven when I looked in your eyes ♪
♪ like a peaceful sort of kryptonite ♪
Peek: We're gonna go over to the vfw.
- That's the place he hung out? - Yes.
In lake station here, everybody kind of knows everybody,
So typically, that's where the hangout is.
Frank halcarz used to visit the vfw hall
And hang out with his friends, so we're headed there today
To talk to his step-granddaughter, devin.
She also happens to be the cousin
Of our suspect, brandon.
She was only 16 at the time,
But she was the last known person to talk to frank.
- Hello. - Hi.
- You're devin. - I'm devin. Hi.
I'm kelly. Nice to meet you.
Hi. Detective peek.
- Hi. Nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you.
Can you talk to us about frank?
The kind of person he was.
My real grandpa passed away when I was, like, three,
And I don't remember him at all.
And then he came along
And he was just, you know, my grandpa.
He was just the only grandpa I ever had.
I'll try not to cry this whole time.
No, it's okay. It's sad enough that he was 89.
Devin: Yeah.
And then we hear nothing but good things about him, right?
He was such a great guy.
They had such a cute relationship.
You know, finding love so old.
He used to always bother my grandma all the time.
They just had this little thing going on.
My grandma would act like she was annoyed,
But he'd always tease her,
And she'd always be like, "--damn it, frank."
He was always working in the yard.
He had a big pond back there.
I used to go fishing with them all the time and camping.
Frank was a veteran of world war ii.
He didn't say much about it, but he was really proud.
He was a sweet, sweet, funny man.
He always was playing jokes and being a trickster.
Even when I was younger with my grandma.
And he was just always helpful and patient with me.
Remember the last time that you had any contact with frank?
My mom and my sister asked me to call him
To see if he was still coming to my nephew's birthday party.
- Okay. - He said, "yeah, I'm coming."
He just got back from the store or something,
And then he never showed up.
Anything in the telephone conversation you had with frank
About troubles at his house or troubles in his life?
No.
- Anything about brandon? - No.
I don't feel like he would say anything to me about...
Probably not. Do you know anything about the relationship
Brandon had with frank
During those three years after your grandma passed away?
- I have no idea. - Okay.
I don't think a lot of my family really associated
With brandon that much.
I wasn't allowed to be around him.
Even back then.
Yeah. He was troubled. Yeah.
He was always very mean and was getting into the drugs.
Devin doesn't know much about any specific issues
Going on between frank and her cousin brandon,
But she was warned herself about brandon a long time ago,
And we need to get to the bottom of that.
He had no fear, and he didn't care about consequences.
What's your understanding
Of what's still standing on frank's property today
For us to go look at?
Basically the cinder blocks that held his house up.
The rest of it's gone, which is unfortunate.
Siegler: Hopefully we can talk about the area
Where the porch is, where everything happened
And then talk about exactly how it went down.
We always want to know exactly how it happened.
And sometimes we may not know the fine details,
But we know enough.
How he swung the hammer doesn't necessarily mean
We can't figure out who swung the hammer.
16 years ago, 89-year-old frank halcarz
Was brutally murdered in his own home.
We wanna get a lay of the land
And try to recreate his killer's actions.
This is the original driveway, right?
Right. Correct. The trailer would have been
In the grass at the very end over there.
Siegler: This is one we think brandon stayed in.
- Yes. - And what's roped off here?
This would be a representation of the porch.
This corner is actually
An original corner of where the house was.
So he would have, like--his feet would have been here, right?
And his head basically right there.
So then, murray, you be frank,
And, pete, you be sledgehammer man.
Okay.
So y'all are thinking it went down how?
I think he's coming out from inside the main house
Because we know that he's got
At least one more load of groceries in his vehicle.
I think he set down one load, and he is coming back out,
And I think he gets about this far
Before he gets that first strike
To the back of the left side of his head.
Okay, so where do you think
The sledgehammer suspect comes from?
I think he followed him up the door.
I think he came right behind him.
Could they have been having an argument
And he said, "you know what? Enough of this.
I'm leaving and you need to, too,"
And walked out ahead of him? Yes.
Or he could have walked in and seen him with a hammer
And was like, "let me get out of here."
Or he could have been hiding. You're never gonna know.
Newman: Frank could have been struck after a confrontation.
But we believe that some neighborhood kids,
As well as frank's step-grandson brandon,
Had been stealing from him.
Maybe he came home in the middle of a burglary,
And to avoid being caught,
The burglar grabbed a nearby sledgehammer.
So I believe he strikes him here.
And then he falls onto his left side.
The fall makes the dentures fall out.
- Correct. - I think he comes this way.
I believe he hits here.
Mm!
When pete did that blow to murray's little head,
That's horrible.
That's way worse than pulling the trigger on a gun.
It was bad.
So then he would remove the wallet
And then exit out this way.
When the police arrive, his wallet is not there.
And his pocket's pulled out, too.
And then what do we know happens out here?
The sledgehammer was located right off the railroad tracks.
You have the residence. He's going this way.
He's not going back out the driveway.
We think this happened around what time on Friday?
- Around 5:00? - Late afternoon.
3:00 to 5:00?
And the first credit card uses at what time?
10-ish. In the 10:00 hour.
Siegler: Let's talk about brandon.
If he went over there just to get money and frank busts him,
Frank's gonna say, "what are you doing here?"
- There's no reason to kill him. - No.
Or he goes in there in the beginning, in the first place,
When frank's not even home yet, waiting to get him,
'cause that's his plan from the very beginning.
Don't underestimate how mad it might be
That he got the cops called on him from before.
This was absolutely an ambush murder.
This was just such a cheap shot.
Brutal, cruel, cruel attack.
It's heartbreaking that you have that in you
To do to an 89-year-old war veteran laying on the ground.
It's unspeakable.
That was very helpful. Thank you.
Siegler: Okay. John wiederhold.
He says he's a stepson of the victim.
As hotheaded as brandon can be, there's no telling
What he might have told him over the years, too.
It's time we start talking to everyone
Who can tell us about frank and any strange relationship
He might have had with his step-grandson brandon.
Was it so bad that it could have led to murder?
And why would he kill the man who was helping him
More than anyone and giving him a place to live?
I raised brandon from five years old till he was 18.
- Yeah. - His mom died.
So, what about his dad?
- That's why it fell on you. - Yeah.
What do you know about frank and brandon's relationship?
I know brandon got money off of him couple of times.
And I talked to frank once more.
I said, "don't give him no more money, frank.
Don't give him more money.
He's gonna go drink it up or get coke
Or whatever he wants to do with it.
Two months later or three months later,
That's when they found him dead over there."
- Really? - Yeah.
Talk to me about brandon's relationship with frank.
He was staying with somebody and he couldn't anymore.
And shocked when my mom said,
"frank's letting brandon stay in his trailer."
I was like, "really?" I'm like, "why would grandpa do that?"
'cause I know I didn't trust brandon.
Everybody knew he would steal from you as quick as he can.
I know that he had screaming matches with my grandpa.
And I think there was an instance
When my grandpa was finally like, "you have to leave.
Like, "you can't stay in the camper."
- Do you remember when that was? - I don't. I really don't.
I know it was within a month of him...
I would say definitely around four weeks
Of him not being here with us anymore.
If frank was trying to kick brandon out,
Then maybe brandon felt like he had nothing to lose
By trying to steal from him one more time.
Smith: Brandon's one of the people--
I honestly don't think he has ever felt empathy in his life.
He doesn't feel for other people.
That's why.
So frank told you that directly,
That he told brandon to leave and that was enough?
- All right. You take care. - You, too.
Frank told her he was scared of brandon,
And in August he kicked him out and told him not to come back.
So there's a possible personal and financial motive here.
Yeah.
Siegler: We've been hearing a lot that brandon scroggin
Could be the person who killed and robbed frank.
But we need to look into these rumors and things
That we're hearing about maybe some local boys
Possibly being involved in stealing from frank.
And we need evidence that they were involved.
Or if not, we need to eliminate them.
- Hello, guys. - Hello. How you doing?
How are you, sir? My name is kelly.
- Hi, kelly. - Nice to meet you.
- Hi, kelly. Andy. - Nice to meet you.
Doc and andrew are some
Of frank's old american legion buddies.
They also happen to be the two witnesses who first told
The police department about maybe these neighborhood boys
Being involved in what happened to frank.
- Are you a prosecutor? - Used to be. Yes, sir.
My little town is called blessing, texas,
And we have a legion there.
And I grew up cleaning the toilets,
Mopping the floor, washing dishes,
And calling bingo and bartending there.
And now look what you're doing now.
And when I go home now,
I still go the legion every time we go hang out.
- God bless you. - Well, we're excited
To talk to you all about what happened to frank.
Frank was a nice fellow.
Doc: Yeah. Frank was one hell of a guy.
Andrew: He really had a nice heart.
That guy was just as gentle as a lamb, ma'am. He really was.
He was this type of guy you'd like to be with.
I remember teasing him because he's army.
He said, "you know what that stands for?"
He says, "what?" I said, "ain't ready to be a marine yet."
And he started laughing his ass off.
It shocked me when I heard about it.
I said, no, it can't be my frank,
Because we love him so much. He really was great.
But I'd like to see this thing have closure,
I'll tell you, for the family and for him.
He said that young kid living in the trailer
In front of his house-- he said, "just putting him up."
I said, "oh, that's nice of you to do that."
"well, you gotta help people out."
Did frank ever mention that anything
Was going wrong in his relationship with brandon?
Well, he said he was a problem child,
As last I remember him telling us.
And he was hoping that he'd be leaving.
- He told you that, frank did? - Yeah. Yeah.
This is a supplement one page in the report
Where an officer wrote down,
"andrew and ken advised that frank told him
He had been having trouble with some neighborhood kids
That were stealing from him."
I recall that now. Yeah.
Do you remember any more detail
About what he said the problems were with him?
No. I don't.
Frank didn't go around flashing money, right?
Oh, hell, no.
The kind of guy that neighborhood kids
Would think obviously has money hidden in his house.
- Anything like that? - I never picked up any of that.
Frank's friends don't seem to really know too much more
More about these kids being involved
Or if there's even anything more to it,
And that's helpful for the case.
It is the kind of thing, though, that a defense lawyer
Wants to play with to try and turn into reasonable doubt
Or to try and throw mud on your case.
So that's why we have to look into it
And do whatever we can
To try and clear it up and clear it out.
All right, guys, well, thank you all for your time today.
- Thank you. - We're trying everything.
Siegler: So, all this credit card transaction stuff.
Pull out your notes so we can make it nice and accurate.
We know that frank's credit card was used shortly
After his murder, so now it's time to take a deep dive
Into the details of all those credit card transactions.
So, we think frank goes to the store
And maybe menards on Friday, October 26.
Right now we're thinking that's also the day he's murdered.
Newman: Based on the grocery receipt
That was found at the crime scene,
Police believe that frank
Was killed shortly after 2 p.M. On the 26th.
What's the next thing you care about on Friday the 26th?
Credit card use at waterfront lounge at 10:34 p.M.
That's the first one? How much does he use this time?
$50 on the nose.
The first charge on frank's stolen credit card
Was at 10:34 p.M. At a local bar.
It was then used eight more times
At two different bars and a gas station.
Okay, so after 2:49 in the morning
On Saturday the 27th, nothing happens
Until the night of Saturday the 27th.
We had a 9:57 at little saver food store
And then 11:15 back at waterfront.
There's a couple more charges on the 27th
At food mart and then back at the bar.
I'm wondering if the plan was to use frank's card
As much as possible until the body was discovered.
Okay, so now we're rolling into Monday, October 29th.
Newman: He gets ambitious and hits western union.
And I'm showing the western union's for $227 and $284.
So now he's got $500 cash walking-around money.
Newman: By day four, he's getting bold.
He used a computer to steal hundreds via western union.
And then we have three more gas stations
And six more charges at the bar.
Why is he bothering to do a part for these little bitty amounts
This close together?
He probably looks shifty,
And they won't let him open a tab,
So he's probably having to make, like, a transaction
Every time he goes to the bar.
So we got last activity 1:07 in the morning.
The morning of Halloween,
Frank's body ends up being found.
Newman: Now, remember, he gets picked up at 1 a.M.
At ruthie's on November 1.
He doesn't have it on him at that time.
Brandon was located by police on November 1st,
And he tells them that he'd been shacking up all weekend
With a woman he'd met at a bar.
He was never charged with credit card fraud,
But if we can further prove that he used that stolen card,
That'd be fantastic evidence to use
To prove that he killed frank.
I already did reach out to the bank,
And I was told they only keep records for seven years.
Okay. So that means it's not admissible
Unless somebody can testify to it.
- Who's still in business? - Mm-mmm.
What about those joints? Beer joints?
They're not either. Dang it.
To be admissible in court, every piece of evidence
Has to have a witness to testify to its authenticity.
The easy way to make all this admissible
Would have been back then
To have the paperwork from the credit card transactions.
If you didn't have that, you could try to find
The witnesses from the bars or from the gas stations
Who might still be working there.
But because it's been so long ago,
Finding old records and employees
Is pretty close to impossible.
We may think brandon used frank's cards,
But right now we can't prove it.
How do we get that in?
We prove it by going through the woman he was with.
If you can use her to legitimize the transactions,
If you're the prosecutor and you're in court,
You argue it goes to the weight of the evidence.
We need to find this woman
And hope that she saw brandon use this card.
Which one is this? Is this the one he firebombed her car?
Yeah.
While we were busy trying
To track down brandon scroggin's alibi witness,
There's another girlfriend from his past
That we think is very important that we need to talk to.
How you doing? I'm murray newman.
She dated brandon scroggin a couple of years
After frank halcarz's murder,
And we're wondering what, if anything,
He might have told her about his grandfather's death.
I dated him, and that was really late 2011.
And then by March, he turned psychotic.
He is very aggressive, very dominating, very abusive.
He kept calling me off of a phone, turned off my phone,
Wake up the next day, my car he set on fire.
And then after that, it was, I have to leave my house
Because he threatened to set my trailer on fire.
Left my house, went to a shelter,
Lost my kid because of him.
And then I get out the shelter a month later,
And my house burns down to the ground two weeks later.
Did he ever talk to you at all about frank?
No. No. No. And I don't know anything
Other than whenever I first got with him,
He made me google his name as well on the internet,
And he made me read the article
To where he was the main suspect
And was like, "I want you to hear this from me
Before you ever hear it from somebody else."
But he never elaborated on it or said that he did or didn't.
You get what I mean?
He never admitted to me as to anything.
But he's obviously setting stuff on fire to say that--
That he's killed others and that he would do the same to me.
What exactly did he say?
He would just say that he would use the number five,
Especially, like, every time, say that he killed five people
And that he'll kill me as well.
Wow.
This guy is out of control.
He's clearly, based on what she has told us,
A very, very scary person.
He would talk about going to the city
And literally running up behind somebody
And hitting them in the back of the head
And then reaching in their pockets
And taking whatever he could get,
Whether they were dead or alive.
Newman: He apparently liked to brag.
He claimed multiple murders.
It sounds a lot like what happened to frank.
Thank you so much.
All righty. Thank you, guys.
And I think all these pieces are just fitting together
In a very commonsensical way
That makes a beautiful case for a prosecutor.
Sheesh. Bless her heart.
She's been through a lot of sh--
With that psychopath, that's for sure.
She was definitely visibly shaken.
Still scared 10 years later.
Oh, yeah. Also something very interesting
Was brandon told her that he would sneak up behind people
And hit them in the head with an object.
And then when they went down, he would take
Whatever they had in their pockets and leave,
Whether they were dead or alive.
That's nice. We never had that before.
- No. - Ooh, that's beautiful.
- She was very clear on that. - Let's call it a day.
A good day. A good day.
[laughter]
- Siegler: Hello. - Can I get you guys a drink?
- Yes, ma'am. - Okay.
I'll take a miller lite.
- A miller lite? - Yes.
Y'all have one of these at home?
- Vfw? - Yeah.
- Siegler: Thank you. - Yeah.
I got so many stories about the legion in blessing. It's crazy.
It's really part of your heritage growing up.
Your grandpa was in world war ii and your dad was in vietnam?
Yeah. I can't help but think of my grandfather
Every time frank is brought up.
What are you thinking about what we're looking like?
I think it's still very key
That we talk to the woman that he was with
And keep our fingers crossed
That her life has been on a better path
Than what brandon's has been
And that she's willing to help us out,
Because I think she's extremely key to this.
- If we can find her. - We can find her.
As a defense attorney, I'm always thinking about
How a case is gonna unfold in the courtroom.
And even if we can find brandon's weekend fling,
If she's a drug addict or criminal,
It opens the door to the defense team
To challenge her credibility and testimony.
If we lose the credit card piece of the case,
What do we have?
- Yeah. - It's a whole different case.
It's pretty much an all-or-nothing proposition.
We really need her to be knowledgeable and credible.
We are. And we're hoping to have some luck.
And we wanna make your community proud,
Lake station police department look good,
'cause they're trying really hard to solve it.
And the victim's a world war ii veteran.
Frank was one of y'all.
Thank you all for what you're doing, too.
- Yes, sir. - Hope you solve it.
Newman: So, we're on our way to see arguably
The most important witness to this case.
If anybody that we've talked to might have new information
That wasn't disclosed at the time,
This would be the first one.
Today is a big day. Perryman and murray
Just got a new lead on hopefully being able to find
Brandon scroggin's alibi witness.
And peek is on his way to a correctional facility
Where brandon is incarcerated
For crimes committed against his ex-girlfriend.
To make this case, we need one of them to somehow confirm
That brandon was the person
Who used frank's stolen credit cards.
Obviously, what we're talking about is there was a homicide.
Right? So when did you meet him, relative to when that happened?
I was at might have been the tap house back then.
I remember this particular person coming in,
Like, in a wet hoodie.
His name was brandon, and he was real generous.
He was buying everybody drinks.
And I ended up bringing him into my home
And sleeping with him.
And he didn't stay here that often.
I don't even remember. It was very, very short.
It was more of like a fling.
And I do remember he had to use my computer
At one point when he was here, and he had a charge card.
The name was the same as the person that was in the paper.
When it come up that this man was murdered,
It flipped me the ---- out
Because he was using his charge card.
The coincidence of that was slim.
This witness was fantastic.
She remembers brandon using frank's card.
She confirmed a lot of things that we already knew.
Most importantly, a computer was used on October 29th
To transfer frank's money via western union.
And this was before his body was found.
I get nauseous thinking about
That I spent time with somebody that could have done that.
That witness is gonna be just a prosecutor's dream.
How you doing, brandon? I'm detective peek
With the lake station police department.
I'm gonna set this up so I can have my notes and things.
I appreciate you speaking with me today.
It's important to me
To have brandon feel comfortable with me
To get him to speak with me.
My plan is to let brandon know that I don't have
Much information from the previous detectives
And that I'm just trying to gather information.
It's always good when you can kind of play
On his side in the beginning, kind of warm him up.
What I'm looking into is your grandfather.
Can you tell me what your relationship was with him?
Yeah?
So you were still living there when he passed away? Okay.
Do you remember hearing about how frank was killed?
So, you've seen it in the newspaper? Okay.
Does it bother you
That we haven't found out who killed frank?
Do you know why that everybody
Was just kind of blaming you for it?
You said you were using his credit cards?
Okay, talk to me about that.
You use the card at waterfront. Does that sound about right?
Did you attempt to get money from western union?
Do you remember this?
Okay. If I showed you this, all these transactions,
Does it look like something that you...
Okay.
And this is from a credit card
That you located inside of frank's house? Okay.
Brandon was very open to speaking with me about things.
He felt that the statute of limitations
On the credit card use was an issue.
So he admitted to me
That he'd stolen the credit cards from frank halcarz,
And he used them at all those locations.
Around that time period,
Were you asked to leave by frank or the police?
Okay.
Did he ask you to leave the house that day?
Were you asking frank for money around that time period?
Because I have a report that said you did.
That's what frank said.
We know you used the card at all these places. Okay?
Frank's wallet was taken from him at some point.
We know that for a fact.
I know his cards were removed from his wallet.
I know you and frank weren't on the best terms.
The person that had a problem with frank was you.
Tell me about your relationship with [bleep].
What would she have to say about you?
She stated that you said you've killed four people before
And she could be number five.
Did you ever make that statement in a heat a passion to her
Or a reason why she would say that?
Brandon seemed to discredit any witness that I spoke with.
Every time I would bring up one of those witnesses,
He would just paint a bad picture of them,
Which is typical behavior in someone
That is, you know, a suspect in a case.
All right, that's all I got.
Feel pretty great that we can get some closure to this.
Yes, sir.
He admitted to using the credit card, so...
- Really? - Yeah, he stated he used it,
But his claim was that he retrieved the cards
From inside of the residence.
He said that frank just had cards
Lying around inside of the residence.
And I even showed him the printout of what we had,
And he pretty much said, yeah, I used them in all these places.
Oh, my god, that's great.
Newman: We had a one-two punch today.
We talked to an amazing witness. She has this huge realization
That this guy is using this murder victim's credit cards.
In the meantime, you've got brandon scroggin in prison,
And he's confirming all of these things as well.
Truly, that might be the best luck we've ever had
Talking to a suspect. Ooh.
I just think it's so awesome yesterday
That the interview with our witness was unfolding
At the same time as the interview with brandon,
And they were matching.
I'm glad he's so smart, aren't you?
Talking about the credit cards.
Seriously.
You couldn't have a more sympathetic victim.
You couldn't have a less sympathetic suspect.
Siegler: We had a great day yesterday.
So now we're ready to review
And go over everything that we've uncovered
In the 2007 murder of frank halcarz.
You about to be feeling good today, right?
- Oh, yeah. - My daughter called me
And she goes, "how'd it go today on your case, mom?"
I said, "we had a great day."
And I told her each of your stories,
And she's like, "you don't have very many days like that."
And I said, "we sure do not." tell me again
How long y'all worked in gary, indiana, captain.
About 11 years.
- And you? - Ten.
Man, it shows. It shows. Y'all are great.
At this point, we all feel that we have more
Than enough circumstantial evidence
To present to the lake county prosecutor's office
And explaining who was responsible
For killing frank halcarz and who wasn't.
Once upon a time, we put up there looking
Into unknown suspect.
And now that we've talked to everybody,
Is there anything we need to correct or add
With what we learned about this?
No, nothing at all. Once again, especially with the number
Of people that we talked with,
The neighborhood kids thing not coming up from anybody else
Other than his vfw buddies.
You remember any more detail
About what he said the problems were with him?
No. I don't.
Frank didn't go around flashing money, right?
- Oh, hell, no. - I was picturing him
As walking around town like a smart-dressed man.
- Not really. - Not flashy at all.
Not anything that anyone would walk past the house
And think, "I'm gonna go here and rob somebody."
Yeah. Pete, what do you think
About unknown suspects still being up here on the board?
- I don't think it's possible. - Captain, same?
- Same. - Yeah.
All right, we're gonna take unknown suspect off the board.
Siegler: There might have been some rumors that frank
Was having trouble with boys in the neighborhood.
Is it reasonable to make that jump
To they're the ones who killed him?
Not with everything that we've learned. Not at all.
Okay, so let's start talking about brandon.
When you're gonna sell your case to your prosecutor,
What would you say to make them know
Brandon scroggin is responsible for killing frank?
Peek: Brandon has a history of crime.
Everyone we've talked to stated that he had no empathy.
Frank asked him to leave days prior,
So his return would obviously cause conflict with frank.
So frank told you that directly,
That he told brandon to leave and that was enough?
He's sitting there telling his ex-girlfriend,
"I would sneak up on people to rob them,
Hit 'em in the back of the head and turn out their pockets."
That's your m.O.
He would talk about going to the city
And literally running up behind somebody and hitting them
In the back of the head and then reaching in their pockets
And taking whatever he could get whether they were dead or alive.
She thought it was odd because when she got with brandon,
He made her google this case.
Let's say I was accused of something.
I would say, "hey, I just want you to see this
Before you find out later."
And then I would go on to say, "I had nothing
To do with this" or blah, blah, blah.
She said, "brandon didn't say anything."
He just said, "I want you to see this."
Credit card use is major.
We have him at that time that frank was killed,
And he's just having a heyday using credit cards excessively.
I handed him the paper and I said,
"hey, does this look like everything you did?"
And he's like, "oh, yeah."
If I showed you this, all these transactions,
Does it look like something that you...
Okay.
I actually have a suggestion that I highly recommend
And your prosecutor will love you for it,
Is take the piece of paper that you showed him
And tag it into evidence right now.
- Okay. - You're in court. You can say,
"do you have the piece of paper you've showed him? Yep.
Is this it? Yes, it is. How do you know?
Here are my initials."
And, boom, you just proved it up.
And you will have just sidestepped
About three witnesses
That the prosecutor would have to call
To prove it up otherwise.
This case shows that when everybody
Is united in what they think about the suspect,
Personality-wise and criminal history-wise
And all the things he's done
And they cooperate and they're all still around--
Incredible--look what you can do with a cold case.
His own family is telling everything they can on him
Because they know that he ought to get in trouble
For what he did.
It's really telling
If you look at a picture of frank halcarz at the age of 23.
He is about to go off to war, where he may not come back,
And he's doing it out of a sense of duty.
He is everything
That 23-year-old brandon scroggin is not.
- Good morning. - Good morning.
Perryman and peek had their meeting
With the prosecutor's office,
And now we want to update devin on everything they learned
And all the progress that's been made with the case.
He brought help today.
- Hi. Nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you.
It went really well. Everybody that we talked to
We're super excited to know that the case is being worked on,
And I think they're all gonna feel good
When they hear about this.
These guys did a wonderful job.
- Thank you. - He went and talked to brandon.
We spoke for about an hour and a half.
He didn't say a lot to help himself.
- You know what I mean? - Mm-hmm.
We spoke with our prosecutors. We submitted everything,
All the work that we did throughout the week,
Presenting charges for brandon.
We got a few more small details we got to button up.
Our prosecutor that we spoke with feels pretty confident.
I don't wanna make any promises 'cause other things can happen,
But it was a very positive meeting.
I'm extremely grateful for them for this,
For everything they've done.
Knowing that we'll have some closure
And justice for my grandpa, that's what matters.
I'm at peace, happy and relieved.
How do you think that's gonna affect
Your family, your mom and everybody?
I'm not really sure.
I think justice is more important.
For me. I can't speak for them.
I'm sure some are gonna be upset.
This is a great case.
We're all excited to see where it goes from here,
Because frank halcarz was a great man.
He served our country. He led a long, full life.
It was taken from him still too short.
Give me a hug.
And up until now, all his family could think about is,
Why does someone get away with murdering a man like that?
But hopefully today, with all these answers...
- It was nice meeting you. - You, too.
...They can finally switch that focus
And appreciate that now they can finally get justice.