1 00:00:12,945 --> 00:00:15,914 Woman: ♪ places that you go ♪ 2 00:00:15,983 --> 00:00:18,650 ♪ secrets that you keep ♪ 3 00:00:18,719 --> 00:00:25,891 ♪ as you keep me in the dark ♪ 4 00:00:28,128 --> 00:00:30,395 Siegler: It was in December of 1990 5 00:00:30,397 --> 00:00:35,099 That emmaline croft was discovered brutally murdered 6 00:00:35,101 --> 00:00:36,135 In her house. 7 00:00:36,137 --> 00:00:38,103 Did you look at those pictures? 8 00:00:38,171 --> 00:00:40,338 - I did. - Those pictures were horrible. 9 00:00:40,407 --> 00:00:42,741 It seemed like overkill, you know. 10 00:00:42,809 --> 00:00:44,642 You're either really, really high 11 00:00:44,712 --> 00:00:47,479 Or really, really sick to be able to do that. 12 00:00:47,548 --> 00:00:49,581 As a cold-case prosecutor, 13 00:00:49,583 --> 00:00:51,616 I've seen lots of crime-scene photos, 14 00:00:51,685 --> 00:00:53,919 But it's really rare for a prosecutor 15 00:00:53,987 --> 00:00:55,854 To be the one that walks in on a crime scene. 16 00:00:55,923 --> 00:00:57,789 And I can only imagine the horror 17 00:00:57,858 --> 00:01:01,292 Of discovering miss emmaline's body back in 1990. 18 00:01:01,362 --> 00:01:04,429 Carroll: I got a phone call from miss croft's son. 19 00:01:04,498 --> 00:01:07,933 He said, "have you seen granny croft out?" 20 00:01:08,001 --> 00:01:12,404 And I said, "no, I haven't seen her in a few days actually." 21 00:01:12,473 --> 00:01:15,774 And he said, "would you do me a favor and go check on her?" 22 00:01:17,143 --> 00:01:18,510 I opened the door. 23 00:01:18,578 --> 00:01:20,679 [camera bulb flashing] 24 00:01:22,383 --> 00:01:23,882 [sobs] 25 00:01:57,017 --> 00:01:58,884 Rider: That's quite a big file. 26 00:01:58,952 --> 00:02:00,819 Yeah, I know. 27 00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:04,623 - Hello. - Hi. 28 00:02:04,691 --> 00:02:06,324 We're here to see lieutenant sparks. 29 00:02:06,393 --> 00:02:07,592 Okay. I'll let him know you're here. 30 00:02:07,594 --> 00:02:08,793 - Thank you. - Thank you. 31 00:02:08,795 --> 00:02:10,261 Siegler: I first heard about this case 32 00:02:10,331 --> 00:02:13,365 Because of a retired florida cop named ron schroeder. 33 00:02:13,433 --> 00:02:15,467 He moved here and started helping out 34 00:02:15,535 --> 00:02:17,769 The alcoa police department with their cold cases. 35 00:02:17,838 --> 00:02:20,905 With tonya being from ohio and me being from texas, 36 00:02:20,974 --> 00:02:23,241 That makes law enforcement from four different states 37 00:02:23,310 --> 00:02:24,409 Working on this case. 38 00:02:24,478 --> 00:02:26,278 - Hello. - Hello, guys. 39 00:02:26,346 --> 00:02:28,580 - How are you? Woody hughes. - Woody, I'm kelly. 40 00:02:28,649 --> 00:02:30,182 - Tonya. - Nice to meet you. 41 00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:31,150 - Doug sparks. - Nice to meet you. 42 00:02:31,218 --> 00:02:33,518 Oh, ron, who I've been talking to. 43 00:02:33,587 --> 00:02:35,620 Nice to meet you. I told tonya I've been talking to you. 44 00:02:35,622 --> 00:02:38,823 The lack of a clear motive has really haunted law enforcement 45 00:02:38,825 --> 00:02:41,125 And this whole community for three decades. 46 00:02:41,127 --> 00:02:43,462 And because this case is so old, 47 00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:45,930 This really could be our last chance to solve it. 48 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,568 What was emmaline like? What was her world back then? 49 00:02:49,636 --> 00:02:51,904 Everybody loved her. She was a grandmother, a mother. 50 00:02:51,972 --> 00:02:53,672 She had five kids. 51 00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:56,307 How about grandkids? How many? 52 00:02:56,309 --> 00:02:59,444 Schroeder: Four boys. She was very active in her church. 53 00:02:59,512 --> 00:03:02,380 She took care of all people in the neighborhood. 54 00:03:02,449 --> 00:03:05,750 They all called her granny. Didn't have any enemies at all. 55 00:03:05,752 --> 00:03:08,219 I previously worked for the toledo police department's 56 00:03:08,221 --> 00:03:11,189 Special victims unit, where we focused on investigating 57 00:03:11,257 --> 00:03:13,625 Sexual assaults against women and children. 58 00:03:13,694 --> 00:03:15,927 Mrs. Croft was killed the year that I graduated 59 00:03:15,996 --> 00:03:17,996 From the toledo police academy. 60 00:03:18,064 --> 00:03:20,299 And for her murder to go unsolved through 61 00:03:20,301 --> 00:03:22,734 My whole entire professional law enforcement career 62 00:03:22,803 --> 00:03:24,469 Is really a tragedy. 63 00:03:24,538 --> 00:03:28,106 So on December 8, 1990, they found emmaline 64 00:03:28,174 --> 00:03:30,875 Laying on a sofa in the living room. 65 00:03:30,877 --> 00:03:33,211 The nightgown she was wearing was ripped, 66 00:03:33,279 --> 00:03:34,980 And there's two pieces of nightgown 67 00:03:35,048 --> 00:03:37,081 Laying on the floor in front of the couch. 68 00:03:37,151 --> 00:03:40,085 She had blunt force trauma to her head. 69 00:03:40,153 --> 00:03:43,188 She had been stabbed in the neck several times, 70 00:03:43,190 --> 00:03:45,023 And she had puncture and scrape marks 71 00:03:45,091 --> 00:03:47,359 About her face and her torso area. 72 00:03:47,427 --> 00:03:49,894 They found a large kitchen knife in the hallway. 73 00:03:49,963 --> 00:03:52,096 And actually, they found a bent fork 74 00:03:52,098 --> 00:03:54,366 Laying by one of her feet on the floor. 75 00:03:54,434 --> 00:03:56,668 And they actually thought that she'd been sexually assaulted. 76 00:03:56,737 --> 00:03:59,404 - With an object or by a man? - We don't know for sure. 77 00:03:59,406 --> 00:04:01,173 And there was no forced entry, right? 78 00:04:01,241 --> 00:04:02,807 - Correct. - Okay. 79 00:04:02,876 --> 00:04:05,476 Emmaline was stabbed with a knife and a fork 80 00:04:05,478 --> 00:04:08,212 And raped vaginally and anally. 81 00:04:08,214 --> 00:04:11,283 The strange thing is, this was such a violent crime, 82 00:04:11,351 --> 00:04:13,585 But yet there are no viable fingerprints, 83 00:04:13,654 --> 00:04:16,254 There was no semen left behind, 84 00:04:16,323 --> 00:04:18,490 And all the dna testing came up empty. 85 00:04:18,558 --> 00:04:20,325 Was there anything at all 86 00:04:20,393 --> 00:04:23,227 That made her vulnerable to something like this happening? 87 00:04:23,229 --> 00:04:24,663 No. 88 00:04:24,731 --> 00:04:27,231 Siegler: That's what makes this case so crazy. 89 00:04:27,233 --> 00:04:30,034 In all cold cases, you have to consider the possibility 90 00:04:30,103 --> 00:04:31,770 Of an unknown assailant, 91 00:04:31,838 --> 00:04:34,138 That some violent criminal out there 92 00:04:34,140 --> 00:04:36,308 Picked poor emmaline as an easy target. 93 00:04:36,376 --> 00:04:38,276 And while we keep all that in mind, 94 00:04:38,345 --> 00:04:40,344 There were others that the investigators believed 95 00:04:40,346 --> 00:04:42,046 To be persons of interest. 96 00:04:42,115 --> 00:04:44,983 All right, how about we start with thomas norfleet? 97 00:04:45,051 --> 00:04:47,952 - Sparks: He was her neighbor. - Also longtime friends. 98 00:04:47,954 --> 00:04:50,722 Sparks: A few people believed that miss croft and norfleet 99 00:04:50,791 --> 00:04:53,125 Were having an affair at some point. 100 00:04:53,193 --> 00:04:55,026 She had told family members and other friends 101 00:04:55,095 --> 00:04:57,596 That she and he had a falling-out. 102 00:04:57,664 --> 00:05:00,098 It was over her visitation of his wife. 103 00:05:00,167 --> 00:05:02,100 - She was very sick, right? - Yes. 104 00:05:02,169 --> 00:05:03,802 And I think we care because we want to know 105 00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:06,204 How much of a stressor that is on him, right? 106 00:05:06,273 --> 00:05:10,141 Thomas norfleet was emmaline's neighbor, and at the time, 107 00:05:10,143 --> 00:05:12,644 He was taking care of his terminally ill wife. 108 00:05:12,712 --> 00:05:14,813 And his wife that was so sick back then 109 00:05:14,881 --> 00:05:17,382 Really did pass away pretty soon after all this. 110 00:05:17,451 --> 00:05:19,884 Some people thought that maybe emmaline and thomas norfleet 111 00:05:19,953 --> 00:05:21,653 Might have been having an affair. 112 00:05:21,722 --> 00:05:24,956 If so, could that have played a part in all this? 113 00:05:24,958 --> 00:05:27,525 - And he's passed away. - He passed away two years ago. 114 00:05:27,594 --> 00:05:30,094 Okay. At some point, the investigation 115 00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:31,863 Also kind of went down the road of-- 116 00:05:31,932 --> 00:05:33,464 How about in the family? 117 00:05:33,466 --> 00:05:35,399 Let's do the one that's passed away first. 118 00:05:35,401 --> 00:05:37,335 That is dennis. 119 00:05:37,404 --> 00:05:39,938 Dennis is her grandson. 120 00:05:40,006 --> 00:05:42,140 Isn't he the one that she let stay at his house, too? 121 00:05:42,208 --> 00:05:44,576 When he had run out of every other resource, 122 00:05:44,644 --> 00:05:48,346 He would go there for a hot meal and someplace to sleep. 123 00:05:48,348 --> 00:05:50,214 Siegler: So we know he has priors for drugs, right? 124 00:05:50,284 --> 00:05:51,683 - Yeah. - Correct. 125 00:05:51,752 --> 00:05:53,918 Siegler: Does he have any kind of violent priors? 126 00:05:53,987 --> 00:05:56,454 Rider: Dui, of course. Vandalism. 127 00:05:56,456 --> 00:05:58,089 Assault with an automobile. 128 00:05:58,091 --> 00:05:59,858 There's ag burglary. 129 00:05:59,926 --> 00:06:02,026 So ag burglary is what we're talking about. 130 00:06:02,095 --> 00:06:04,963 Rider: One witness said dennis raised his hand to granny. 131 00:06:05,031 --> 00:06:06,665 Siegler: Because she wouldn't give him drug money? 132 00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:08,667 - Yes. Right. - That's a good one. 133 00:06:08,735 --> 00:06:10,334 He's the only one on the board 134 00:06:10,404 --> 00:06:12,236 That actually did something like that directly to her. 135 00:06:12,238 --> 00:06:15,140 I wish we could ask him about that. 136 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:16,975 All right. So next up-- 137 00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:20,411 Darren is related to emmaline because he is her... 138 00:06:20,413 --> 00:06:22,147 - Grandson. - Rider: Grandson. 139 00:06:22,215 --> 00:06:26,284 How much was darren ethridge looked at back then? 140 00:06:26,353 --> 00:06:27,752 Hughes: I don't think he really was. 141 00:06:27,821 --> 00:06:30,122 - Being a juvenile at that time. - Siegler: He was 16. 142 00:06:30,190 --> 00:06:32,423 Schroeder: Yeah, he was kind of like a wild child, 143 00:06:32,493 --> 00:06:34,058 Kind of running the streets and that. 144 00:06:34,127 --> 00:06:35,827 Grandma gets murdered and then they just got out of here. 145 00:06:35,896 --> 00:06:37,328 Yep. 146 00:06:37,397 --> 00:06:39,731 Siegler: Darren ethridge was emmeline's grandson 147 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,534 And our suspect, dennis kimsey's, cousin. 148 00:06:42,602 --> 00:06:45,136 He was only 16 years old at the time, 149 00:06:45,205 --> 00:06:48,940 But his parents appeared to have moved him away to texas 150 00:06:49,009 --> 00:06:50,775 Really quickly after this happened. 151 00:06:50,844 --> 00:06:52,143 What's our million-dollar question? 152 00:06:52,212 --> 00:06:54,346 Why leave to texas so soon? 153 00:06:54,414 --> 00:06:57,916 And in the years since, he's been accused of several crimes. 154 00:06:57,984 --> 00:07:01,386 Stalking. Stalking. Stalking. Stalking. Stalking. Five times. 155 00:07:01,454 --> 00:07:03,621 So in 2000, he's arrested in texas. 156 00:07:03,690 --> 00:07:05,256 He picks up a stripper. 157 00:07:05,258 --> 00:07:07,759 Then they decide to go off on their own to a park, 158 00:07:07,827 --> 00:07:10,028 And then things go bad, right? 159 00:07:10,096 --> 00:07:13,497 Darren was accused of stalking when he was 21. 160 00:07:13,499 --> 00:07:16,301 And at 26, he was involved in an incident 161 00:07:16,369 --> 00:07:18,537 Where he was allegedly raping a woman, 162 00:07:18,539 --> 00:07:21,906 Was interrupted by police, and assaulted the officer 163 00:07:21,975 --> 00:07:23,842 With his car as he tried to flee. 164 00:07:23,910 --> 00:07:25,710 The question is, how early 165 00:07:25,778 --> 00:07:28,813 Did darren's criminal activities really begin? 166 00:07:28,882 --> 00:07:31,315 Did they have any issues between them that we know of? 167 00:07:31,385 --> 00:07:33,285 - Granny and darren? - I don't think so. 168 00:07:33,353 --> 00:07:35,754 I can see him being mad at granny, 169 00:07:35,822 --> 00:07:37,756 But that kind of mad 170 00:07:37,824 --> 00:07:42,494 That a 16-year-old kid could do that to his own blood--grandma. 171 00:07:42,562 --> 00:07:44,796 - Oh, yeah. - And if you're that messed up, 172 00:07:44,865 --> 00:07:46,764 It's not a one-time thing. 173 00:07:46,833 --> 00:07:49,201 So we got to be looking for a pattern here. 174 00:07:49,269 --> 00:07:53,504 There's some good pieces under each of the suspects, 175 00:07:53,506 --> 00:07:56,540 But not a whole lot under any one of the suspects. 176 00:07:56,542 --> 00:07:59,010 What I'm encouraged about is that there were so many people 177 00:07:59,012 --> 00:08:02,614 That were never interviewed hard about anything back then. 178 00:08:02,682 --> 00:08:04,483 I mean, we might find out something huge 179 00:08:04,551 --> 00:08:06,151 And really, really get somewhere. 180 00:08:15,962 --> 00:08:18,997 You got tim kimsey coming in today. Emmaline's grandson? 181 00:08:19,065 --> 00:08:21,533 - Correct. - He knows we're going to talk 182 00:08:21,601 --> 00:08:23,234 About some of his family members, too, right? 183 00:08:23,303 --> 00:08:24,101 - Yes. - Okay. 184 00:08:24,171 --> 00:08:25,303 Tim, how are you? 185 00:08:25,372 --> 00:08:27,104 - Hey, buddy. Doing well. - Good. 186 00:08:27,174 --> 00:08:29,040 I think you remember me. Detective hughes. 187 00:08:29,108 --> 00:08:30,641 I do, yeah. 188 00:08:30,711 --> 00:08:32,811 Tim: I spent a lot of time at my grandmother's. 189 00:08:32,879 --> 00:08:37,582 She just loved unconditionally and was always there 190 00:08:37,651 --> 00:08:40,118 For a pat on the back if you did well 191 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,586 And some harsh advice 192 00:08:41,654 --> 00:08:43,221 If you weren't doing as good as you should have been. 193 00:08:43,290 --> 00:08:48,626 She was always kind and amazing, and everybody loved granny. 194 00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:50,461 What was she like? 195 00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:54,165 Amazing lady. She, uh... 196 00:09:00,406 --> 00:09:02,741 You just have to bear with me here a second. 197 00:09:03,977 --> 00:09:06,510 Um... 198 00:09:06,580 --> 00:09:10,181 Very forgiving person. Very loving individual. 199 00:09:10,250 --> 00:09:12,249 She loved the lord. 200 00:09:13,253 --> 00:09:16,688 And it was her faith that made her as strong as she was. 201 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:18,323 She taught us how to pray. 202 00:09:18,391 --> 00:09:20,524 She come in there and make funny prayers even. 203 00:09:20,526 --> 00:09:21,892 Very good sense of humor. 204 00:09:21,894 --> 00:09:23,495 You think she's part of the reason 205 00:09:23,563 --> 00:09:24,696 Why you're a preacher today? 206 00:09:24,764 --> 00:09:28,032 She is unquestionably the reason 207 00:09:28,101 --> 00:09:29,868 Why I'm a preacher today. 208 00:09:29,936 --> 00:09:33,672 I get a-- get a lot of values... 209 00:09:36,042 --> 00:09:39,210 From my granny, and, uh... 210 00:09:43,717 --> 00:09:45,583 She, uh... 211 00:09:45,652 --> 00:09:47,752 She taught me how to love. 212 00:09:53,393 --> 00:09:56,160 She was my best friend. 213 00:09:56,229 --> 00:09:58,096 When granny got killed, 214 00:09:58,164 --> 00:10:02,100 I had emotions to run through me like I've never had in my life. 215 00:10:02,168 --> 00:10:05,369 I was very angry as well as hurt. 216 00:10:05,438 --> 00:10:07,639 Could you see from talking to your brother dennis 217 00:10:07,707 --> 00:10:09,341 That he was just as angry as you? 218 00:10:09,409 --> 00:10:11,009 Or did he do or act in a way 219 00:10:11,077 --> 00:10:13,211 That made you be suspicious of him? 220 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:14,979 Tim: It made me suspicious. 221 00:10:15,048 --> 00:10:18,449 He just didn't react the way that I felt like that he should. 222 00:10:18,451 --> 00:10:21,219 Help us understand. If your brother is the person 223 00:10:21,287 --> 00:10:22,954 Who murdered your grandma, why? 224 00:10:23,023 --> 00:10:25,423 What would make him go to that extreme? 225 00:10:25,491 --> 00:10:26,658 Drugs. 226 00:10:26,726 --> 00:10:30,328 You know, my brother was a criminal. 227 00:10:30,397 --> 00:10:33,264 He did a lot of bad things in his life. 228 00:10:33,266 --> 00:10:35,633 There's nothing he wouldn't do. 229 00:10:35,702 --> 00:10:37,635 Siegler: And then there's darren. 230 00:10:37,704 --> 00:10:39,337 Tim: As far as I know, 231 00:10:39,406 --> 00:10:42,573 Darren and her was not real, real close. 232 00:10:42,642 --> 00:10:45,143 I don't know darren had anything to do with it. 233 00:10:45,211 --> 00:10:47,679 If it's darren-- we're just trying to consider 234 00:10:47,747 --> 00:10:53,151 All possibilities here-- what would get him so angry 235 00:10:53,219 --> 00:10:56,054 Or worked up to sexually assault her that way? 236 00:10:56,122 --> 00:10:57,756 That's the part that blows me away. 237 00:10:57,824 --> 00:10:59,590 - Right. - I think that whoever it was 238 00:10:59,659 --> 00:11:01,392 Had to be high. 239 00:11:01,461 --> 00:11:03,727 - You would think, right? - Yeah. 240 00:11:03,729 --> 00:11:05,729 I couldn't believe that something like this 241 00:11:05,731 --> 00:11:08,866 Has happened to her in the manner that it did. 242 00:11:08,935 --> 00:11:10,368 If it was found that it was somebody 243 00:11:10,437 --> 00:11:14,706 That was in our family, it would hurt. 244 00:11:14,774 --> 00:11:17,008 It would hurt bad to know that it was somebody close. 245 00:11:17,076 --> 00:11:20,745 But no matter who it was, 246 00:11:20,814 --> 00:11:23,881 They need to be brought to justice. 247 00:11:23,883 --> 00:11:25,850 My granny deserves that. 248 00:11:27,352 --> 00:11:38,262 Siegler: You know, we work murders all the time. 249 00:11:38,264 --> 00:11:40,699 To me, this case is still different 250 00:11:40,767 --> 00:11:42,934 Because they were able to sexually assault 251 00:11:43,002 --> 00:11:44,535 An 80-year-old woman. 252 00:11:44,537 --> 00:11:46,938 I'm building this defendant, whoever it is, 253 00:11:47,006 --> 00:11:49,074 Up to be pretty much a monster. 254 00:11:49,142 --> 00:11:50,608 And I don't like to use that word a lot, 255 00:11:50,677 --> 00:11:53,377 But whoever did this is really, really sick. 256 00:11:53,446 --> 00:11:56,314 We have three known and one unknown suspect 257 00:11:56,382 --> 00:11:59,917 In the horrible murder and rape of emmaline croft. 258 00:11:59,919 --> 00:12:02,253 Danny, this is ron schroeder. 259 00:12:02,322 --> 00:12:04,188 - Mr. Schroeder. - And this is tonya. 260 00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:05,789 - Hi. - Hi, tanya. How are you? 261 00:12:05,791 --> 00:12:08,126 We want to talk to her friends and her family 262 00:12:08,194 --> 00:12:10,394 To ask them about her two grandsons 263 00:12:10,463 --> 00:12:12,596 And her neighbor, thomas norfleet. 264 00:12:12,666 --> 00:12:14,232 Which, if any of them, 265 00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:16,768 Is sick enough to kill her this horrible way? 266 00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:18,770 Could you tell much about emmaline's relationship 267 00:12:18,838 --> 00:12:20,404 With her grandkids? 268 00:12:20,473 --> 00:12:23,174 Well, one grandson in particular, dennis kimsey. 269 00:12:23,243 --> 00:12:26,344 One summer, he parked his little camper right there. 270 00:12:26,412 --> 00:12:29,113 He adored his grandmother, and she adored him. 271 00:12:29,181 --> 00:12:30,749 So she was really close with him. 272 00:12:30,817 --> 00:12:32,851 He was there more than any of them. 273 00:12:32,853 --> 00:12:35,086 Was there any talk that you heard 274 00:12:35,155 --> 00:12:37,621 Of who was responsible for the murder? 275 00:12:37,623 --> 00:12:40,692 There was speculation and rumor 276 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,795 That my first cousin, denny, could be involved. 277 00:12:44,865 --> 00:12:46,897 Denny battled with a lot of demons. 278 00:12:46,967 --> 00:12:49,133 He was an addict. 279 00:12:49,201 --> 00:12:51,335 Was involved in everything 280 00:12:51,404 --> 00:12:53,938 From burglaries to selling drugs. 281 00:12:54,007 --> 00:12:56,106 Naturally, when this happened, 282 00:12:56,108 --> 00:12:59,643 Everybody brought denny's name up. 283 00:13:00,313 --> 00:13:02,280 - So you're trena's daughter. - We are both trena's daughters. 284 00:13:02,348 --> 00:13:04,783 - You're both trena's daughters. - Yes. We're sisters. 285 00:13:04,851 --> 00:13:06,451 Hughes: I know there's a sister somewhere in there. 286 00:13:06,453 --> 00:13:08,552 Denny was always in trouble. 287 00:13:08,622 --> 00:13:11,589 Like, he had put explosives in the sheriff's mailbox. 288 00:13:11,658 --> 00:13:15,560 And one time when he got pulled over by the cops, 289 00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:17,295 He tried to run over 'em. 290 00:13:17,363 --> 00:13:20,030 Like, literally tried to run 'em down. 291 00:13:20,032 --> 00:13:23,000 On the other hand, I guess there's a good side 292 00:13:23,069 --> 00:13:27,705 Of denny somewhere, which is towards his grandmother. 293 00:13:27,773 --> 00:13:31,409 Granny was probably denny's closest friend. 294 00:13:31,477 --> 00:13:36,214 When denny was in trouble or had issues or whatever, 295 00:13:36,282 --> 00:13:38,015 Granny was always the one 296 00:13:38,084 --> 00:13:41,385 That would help him in any way she could. 297 00:13:41,454 --> 00:13:44,021 Although denny was probably capable 298 00:13:44,090 --> 00:13:46,557 Of doing that to someone else, 299 00:13:46,626 --> 00:13:50,962 I just couldn't fathom him doing that to his grandmother, 300 00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:54,031 Especially as much as he loved granny. 301 00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:56,534 Walk in there, get mad and accidentally kill her-- 302 00:13:56,603 --> 00:13:59,370 Hands down, I could totally see that. 303 00:13:59,372 --> 00:14:02,606 But to carry through the sexual stuff, 304 00:14:02,675 --> 00:14:04,375 I find it very hard to believe. 305 00:14:04,377 --> 00:14:05,310 Okay. 306 00:14:18,891 --> 00:14:20,925 He was my brother, you know, and I loved him, 307 00:14:20,993 --> 00:14:22,894 Despite his faults. 308 00:14:22,962 --> 00:14:24,962 But you had a hard talk with him about what happened? 309 00:14:25,031 --> 00:14:28,366 Yeah, I talked to him several times after that. 310 00:14:28,368 --> 00:14:29,867 You know, he was like me. 311 00:14:29,935 --> 00:14:32,203 He was just pulling stuff out of the sky. 312 00:14:32,271 --> 00:14:33,304 "what if this." "what if that." 313 00:14:33,373 --> 00:14:35,439 That's important for us to know. 314 00:14:35,441 --> 00:14:38,476 Because if danny's trying to figure it out just like you are, 315 00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:40,611 - We need to hear that. - Okay. 316 00:14:40,613 --> 00:14:42,913 Would she have opened the door for any of denny's friends 317 00:14:42,915 --> 00:14:45,449 Coming looking for denny? Drug friends? 318 00:14:45,518 --> 00:14:47,885 You know, granny was... 319 00:14:47,954 --> 00:14:49,520 Probably a trusting soul. 320 00:14:49,589 --> 00:14:51,488 You know what I mean? 321 00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:54,358 Siegler: Everybody agrees that dennis was violent 322 00:14:54,427 --> 00:14:57,961 And capable of killing someone, maybe even his own grandmother. 323 00:14:57,963 --> 00:14:59,597 But he wouldn't have been able 324 00:14:59,665 --> 00:15:02,099 To commit the sexual act part of this. 325 00:15:02,168 --> 00:15:03,367 And he was out there trying to figure out 326 00:15:03,436 --> 00:15:05,036 Who committed this crime, too. 327 00:15:05,104 --> 00:15:07,571 You spoke about how denny's history was. 328 00:15:07,573 --> 00:15:09,173 What about darren? 329 00:15:09,242 --> 00:15:11,676 What kind of stuff have you heard about darren? 330 00:15:16,849 --> 00:15:18,316 Did anybody in your family ever think 331 00:15:18,384 --> 00:15:21,019 About darren being involved? 332 00:15:21,021 --> 00:15:22,186 Mm-mmm. 333 00:15:22,254 --> 00:15:24,021 Darren couldn't handle--handle-- 334 00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:25,789 He couldn't handle granny, number one. 335 00:15:25,791 --> 00:15:26,891 Because? 336 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:27,959 'cause he's not strong enough. 337 00:15:28,027 --> 00:15:29,927 She's strong as an ox. 338 00:15:29,995 --> 00:15:32,196 She'd have beat him half to death if he'd tried that. 339 00:15:42,141 --> 00:15:43,674 Rider: According to these witnesses, 340 00:15:43,743 --> 00:15:45,543 We should rule out darren as well. 341 00:15:45,611 --> 00:15:47,811 He was too young and too small. 342 00:15:47,813 --> 00:15:50,248 Not to mention, emmaline was his grandmother, too. 343 00:15:50,316 --> 00:15:51,950 Did granny ever say anything 344 00:15:52,018 --> 00:15:54,785 About having any kind of romantic interest 345 00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:56,620 Or any guy on the street flirting with her 346 00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:58,256 Or anything like that? 347 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,107 So we're talking about norfleet, right? 348 00:16:16,175 --> 00:16:19,543 If emmaline thought that thomas norfleet was mean, 349 00:16:19,612 --> 00:16:22,613 It's hard to imagine that they were romantically involved. 350 00:16:22,681 --> 00:16:25,416 Unless she was keeping some big secret. 351 00:16:25,485 --> 00:16:28,752 That someone would do that at someone like granny ethridge, 352 00:16:28,822 --> 00:16:33,691 It just goes to prove that evil's out there. 353 00:16:45,270 --> 00:16:48,005 Siegler: Dr. Pinneri's coming in today. 354 00:16:48,073 --> 00:16:50,141 If she can tell us the order in which the injuries occurred, 355 00:16:50,209 --> 00:16:51,875 I think that will give us a lot of insight 356 00:16:51,877 --> 00:16:54,612 Into how that played out at the crime scene. 357 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,981 - There's so many of them. - Yeah. 358 00:16:57,049 --> 00:16:58,949 After talking to everybody we have so far, 359 00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,218 We still have no clear motive in emmaline's murder. 360 00:17:01,287 --> 00:17:02,720 Guys, this is dr. Pinneri. 361 00:17:02,788 --> 00:17:04,621 - Doug sparks. - Nice to meet you. 362 00:17:04,691 --> 00:17:07,125 Siegler: Hopefully, if we get dr. Pinneri to tell us 363 00:17:07,127 --> 00:17:09,560 More about the weapons used, the injuries, 364 00:17:09,628 --> 00:17:11,595 More details about the sexual assault, 365 00:17:11,664 --> 00:17:13,064 We can get better insight 366 00:17:13,132 --> 00:17:14,965 Into knowing where we need to focus next. 367 00:17:15,034 --> 00:17:16,968 Pinneri: So, we have an 80-year-old female. 368 00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:18,402 She's found dead on a couch. 369 00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:20,705 There's a lot of blood around her neck 370 00:17:20,773 --> 00:17:23,307 And on the pillow underneath her head. 371 00:17:23,376 --> 00:17:26,043 There is a knife on the floor in a hallway. 372 00:17:26,111 --> 00:17:28,146 There's a bent fork right by her foot. 373 00:17:28,214 --> 00:17:29,914 There's a big area of contusion 374 00:17:29,982 --> 00:17:33,717 That encompasses the cheek and nose and then also the ear. 375 00:17:33,719 --> 00:17:35,653 And there is a lot of bruising there. 376 00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:39,423 So these did happen before the knife injuries. 377 00:17:39,492 --> 00:17:42,393 She does have evidence of defending herself. 378 00:17:42,395 --> 00:17:44,261 Cut marks on the backs of her hands 379 00:17:44,263 --> 00:17:45,729 And the back of her forearm. 380 00:17:45,731 --> 00:17:46,930 Those are defensive injuries 381 00:17:46,932 --> 00:17:49,266 As you're trying to fight off somebody. 382 00:17:49,335 --> 00:17:51,201 So she's seeing-- 383 00:17:51,271 --> 00:17:54,805 Looking at the person as she's being attacked. 384 00:17:54,807 --> 00:17:58,542 What was found in the neck area is that the carotid arteries, 385 00:17:58,544 --> 00:18:00,010 Which are the main blood vessels 386 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:02,280 That take blood from the heart up to the brain, 387 00:18:02,348 --> 00:18:04,781 Were completely cut on both sides. 388 00:18:04,783 --> 00:18:06,818 The one on the right actually goes deep enough, 389 00:18:06,886 --> 00:18:09,219 And it cuts all the way to the vertebrae. 390 00:18:09,221 --> 00:18:11,722 This tells you how forceful these stab wounds were. 391 00:18:11,791 --> 00:18:13,724 This is brutal. 392 00:18:13,793 --> 00:18:16,293 Did the injuries look sloppy, like somebody's first time, 393 00:18:16,362 --> 00:18:17,995 And they're just going crazy with a knife? 394 00:18:18,064 --> 00:18:20,030 They're very well placed. 395 00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:22,700 If you want to kill somebody, that's how you do it. 396 00:18:22,768 --> 00:18:25,837 Then she does have these groups of four puncture marks 397 00:18:25,905 --> 00:18:29,106 On the face, what look like they could be fork wounds. 398 00:18:29,175 --> 00:18:34,612 Some of the injuries look dry, almost postmortem. 399 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,981 This is a very horrific crime scene. 400 00:18:37,983 --> 00:18:39,716 A whole lot of injuries. 401 00:18:39,786 --> 00:18:42,587 That was overkill, basically, is what people would say. 402 00:18:42,655 --> 00:18:44,722 Any one of those injuries to the neck 403 00:18:44,790 --> 00:18:48,092 Would have been enough to have killed this elderly female. 404 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,629 The fork injuries. All of that is way excessive. 405 00:18:51,697 --> 00:18:55,900 Then the other part of this is sexual assault, 406 00:18:55,968 --> 00:18:57,902 Both vaginal and anal. 407 00:18:57,970 --> 00:19:00,504 The way that the vaginal trauma is described 408 00:19:00,573 --> 00:19:03,507 As small linear abrasions around the vaginal orifice. 409 00:19:03,576 --> 00:19:05,342 So it had to be something large. 410 00:19:05,411 --> 00:19:07,578 Are you saying a thing? Not a penis. 411 00:19:07,647 --> 00:19:09,780 It could be a penis, just not a finger 412 00:19:09,782 --> 00:19:11,048 Or not the end of the knife. 413 00:19:11,117 --> 00:19:13,551 Is there anything that helps you say 414 00:19:13,619 --> 00:19:16,620 If the sexual assault happened last? 415 00:19:16,622 --> 00:19:22,326 I don't see her having the injuries and be standing up. 416 00:19:22,394 --> 00:19:25,629 I could definitely see that that could have happened 417 00:19:25,631 --> 00:19:28,466 After the other injuries. 418 00:19:28,534 --> 00:19:33,237 What would be your explanation for how come there's no semen? 419 00:19:33,239 --> 00:19:34,705 Pinneri: Well, not everybody ejaculates. 420 00:19:34,774 --> 00:19:39,643 Maybe they couldn't. But if it was an object, 421 00:19:39,712 --> 00:19:42,380 Then that would certainly explain the lack of semen. 422 00:19:42,448 --> 00:19:47,051 Siegler: Emmaline wounds tell us that she was struck in the head 423 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,987 And then stabbed and then she was sexually assaulted 424 00:19:50,055 --> 00:19:51,956 Before she was probed with that fork. 425 00:19:52,024 --> 00:19:55,259 If the person who did this is miss emmaline's neighbor 426 00:19:55,328 --> 00:19:56,961 Or an unknown suspect, then that's somebody 427 00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:59,463 Who's really sick or really messed up on drugs. 428 00:19:59,532 --> 00:20:01,098 - Thank you so much. - Yes. Thank you. 429 00:20:01,167 --> 00:20:02,400 All right, thank you. 430 00:20:02,468 --> 00:20:05,102 And if it's one of her grandsons, 431 00:20:05,170 --> 00:20:06,971 That makes it even sicker. 432 00:20:09,575 --> 00:20:11,475 Siegler: The house is still standing? 433 00:20:11,544 --> 00:20:14,312 Yes. Our main focus is on that living room. 434 00:20:14,380 --> 00:20:17,347 And so I'm hoping that that's still the same. 435 00:20:17,417 --> 00:20:19,450 It's important for us to go to the crime scene 436 00:20:19,518 --> 00:20:22,886 To get a firsthand look at how the crime took place. 437 00:20:22,888 --> 00:20:26,223 So, we're headed to her house to recreate the crime scene. 438 00:20:26,292 --> 00:20:28,025 In the original scene, 439 00:20:28,093 --> 00:20:30,661 The couch where miss croft was located 440 00:20:30,730 --> 00:20:32,730 Is gonna be right about this area here. 441 00:20:32,798 --> 00:20:35,266 We know that the back leg of the couch was broken. 442 00:20:35,334 --> 00:20:37,868 She's found with one leg on the sofa, 443 00:20:37,870 --> 00:20:39,870 One leg kind of dangling off. 444 00:20:39,939 --> 00:20:42,406 And the gown that's on the floor is still part of this gown, 445 00:20:42,474 --> 00:20:43,774 - Not a separate one. - Correct. 446 00:20:43,843 --> 00:20:45,676 It's almost like the jacket stayed on 447 00:20:45,745 --> 00:20:47,144 And then the gown was just ripped off 448 00:20:47,212 --> 00:20:48,846 And they were thrown onto the floor. 449 00:20:48,914 --> 00:20:50,447 - Siegler: No bra? - No bra. 450 00:20:50,516 --> 00:20:52,816 - No bra. - But her bra was found. 451 00:20:52,885 --> 00:20:55,119 It was on her clothes, inside her... 452 00:20:55,187 --> 00:20:56,319 How about her panties? 453 00:20:56,321 --> 00:20:57,488 - No panties. - No panties. 454 00:20:57,556 --> 00:20:59,123 Are the panties anywhere in the room? 455 00:20:59,125 --> 00:21:00,591 - No. - No. 456 00:21:00,660 --> 00:21:02,493 Siegler: There's seemingly only one thing missing 457 00:21:02,561 --> 00:21:04,595 From emmaline's house-- her underwear. 458 00:21:04,664 --> 00:21:06,597 It's possible that the killer took her panties 459 00:21:06,666 --> 00:21:08,432 Because they wanted to take away the evidence. 460 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:10,033 But they left the knife behind. 461 00:21:10,103 --> 00:21:12,403 So we're all thinking they took the panties 462 00:21:12,471 --> 00:21:14,071 To keep them as a trophy. 463 00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:15,906 Tanya gets to be emmaline. 464 00:21:15,975 --> 00:21:20,945 Woody, go play the intruder, killer, rapist. 465 00:21:25,084 --> 00:21:26,917 - Who is it? - [knocking] 466 00:21:26,919 --> 00:21:28,719 Oh, hi. What are you doing here? 467 00:21:28,788 --> 00:21:30,654 I just come to talk to you. I need some help. 468 00:21:30,723 --> 00:21:32,823 She's seen me. She's recognized me. 469 00:21:32,892 --> 00:21:34,892 And she's comfortable with letting me in. 470 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,628 We start talking, but something sets me off. 471 00:21:37,696 --> 00:21:39,263 And so my first instinct 472 00:21:39,331 --> 00:21:41,732 Is just to punch her right inside the face, 473 00:21:41,801 --> 00:21:43,801 And that's going to knock her down onto the couch. 474 00:21:43,869 --> 00:21:45,369 So she's dazed. She's confused. 475 00:21:45,437 --> 00:21:47,838 And I just grab whatever I can find. 476 00:21:47,907 --> 00:21:50,841 And I come back. She's blocking me. 477 00:21:50,910 --> 00:21:53,877 And then we're fighting, and I'm ripping this gown off. 478 00:21:53,879 --> 00:21:54,945 That is where it ends up, right? 479 00:21:55,014 --> 00:21:55,946 - Yeah. - Okay. 480 00:21:56,015 --> 00:21:57,648 I'm trying to shield my face 481 00:21:57,716 --> 00:22:00,984 Because that's, like, your vulnerable part. 482 00:22:01,053 --> 00:22:03,721 But I'm still exposing my neck. I can't do both. 483 00:22:03,789 --> 00:22:06,089 He's coming in and going here. 484 00:22:06,158 --> 00:22:10,193 So the two fatal are going to be on each side right here. 485 00:22:10,195 --> 00:22:14,932 So it's going to go in here and then in here as well. 486 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,434 And the left one's the deep one 487 00:22:16,502 --> 00:22:18,468 That goes all the way to the vertebrae. 488 00:22:18,538 --> 00:22:22,205 But the way she's laid with this propped up and I'm on top, 489 00:22:22,207 --> 00:22:25,008 All that blood is shooting on me. 490 00:22:25,077 --> 00:22:27,244 - And she's not getting away. - Mm-mmm. 491 00:22:27,313 --> 00:22:31,348 I felt extremely vulnerable, and I'm not 80 years old. 492 00:22:31,417 --> 00:22:34,451 But when someone's over you, they have all the power. 493 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,921 And so knowing that she was in defense mode 494 00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:40,357 And trying to fight off her attacker, 495 00:22:40,426 --> 00:22:43,994 It had to be completely horrible for her. 496 00:22:43,996 --> 00:22:46,296 She's bleeding out. She's most likely dead already. 497 00:22:46,365 --> 00:22:48,432 So being the sadistic person that I am, 498 00:22:48,501 --> 00:22:51,202 I just grab a fork, and I'm coming in, 499 00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:52,636 And I'm poking in the face. 500 00:22:52,705 --> 00:22:54,338 Maybe that's not doing what I need. 501 00:22:54,406 --> 00:22:56,106 And I start poking down here. 502 00:22:56,175 --> 00:22:58,442 'cause that's where the fork injuries are? Even down here? 503 00:22:58,511 --> 00:23:01,211 Yeah, there's some on the torso as well. 504 00:23:01,213 --> 00:23:03,347 And given the force used by this, 505 00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:05,616 Because obviously you're really jabbing it in there, 506 00:23:05,618 --> 00:23:06,750 It's going to bend that fork, 507 00:23:06,819 --> 00:23:08,518 And then that's just tossed down. 508 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,821 Okay, so y'all think the sexual assault happened 509 00:23:10,890 --> 00:23:13,490 - After she's dead? - I would think so. 510 00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:16,293 Like I said, I think there would still be a lot more destruction 511 00:23:16,362 --> 00:23:17,895 Around the place if it happened during... 512 00:23:17,897 --> 00:23:20,030 Y'all want to think he's raping a dead woman? 513 00:23:20,099 --> 00:23:20,998 That's even sicker. 514 00:23:21,066 --> 00:23:22,632 I'm covered in blood now, 515 00:23:22,702 --> 00:23:24,601 So before I leave, I've got to clean up. 516 00:23:24,670 --> 00:23:27,571 So I go back towards the bathroom, 517 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,374 Drops the knife, whatever else, washes his hands. 518 00:23:30,442 --> 00:23:33,543 We think he's just straight out, opening the door, 519 00:23:33,545 --> 00:23:35,345 Maybe touching the wall or something. 520 00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:37,148 Where's blood inside the house? Anywhere? 521 00:23:37,216 --> 00:23:39,449 A little on the back, but then right here in this doorframe. 522 00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:40,784 And then he grabbed the handle, 523 00:23:40,853 --> 00:23:43,453 And there's blood around the handle here. 524 00:23:43,455 --> 00:23:45,155 It's almost like you want to think 525 00:23:45,157 --> 00:23:47,791 That whoever did this is some unknown monster out there. 526 00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:49,793 With all the people on the board 527 00:23:49,862 --> 00:23:51,628 That these people out here all know, 528 00:23:51,697 --> 00:23:53,831 It's just hard to picture any one of them 529 00:23:53,899 --> 00:23:56,433 Being able to do that to sweet little emmaline. 530 00:23:56,502 --> 00:23:59,370 I'm trying to picture a 16-year-old able 531 00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:04,207 To do that that young to his own grandma after she's dead. 532 00:24:04,277 --> 00:24:06,210 - That's a lot. - It is a lot. 533 00:24:06,278 --> 00:24:09,112 Or trying to picture denny, who loved his grandma, 534 00:24:09,181 --> 00:24:11,014 Who worshipped the ground he walked on 535 00:24:11,083 --> 00:24:13,050 Being able to do that. 536 00:24:13,118 --> 00:24:14,785 You almost want it to be an unknown person. 537 00:24:14,853 --> 00:24:16,920 - Yeah. - It makes it more... 538 00:24:16,989 --> 00:24:18,622 - Believable. - Believable. 539 00:24:20,325 --> 00:24:34,972 Rider: So, I'm exciting to talk to janice, 540 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,841 Because now that he's deceased, 541 00:24:37,910 --> 00:24:40,344 Hopefully as a former spouse, 542 00:24:40,412 --> 00:24:41,945 She'll be able to give us some more insight 543 00:24:42,014 --> 00:24:44,147 Into him as a person, 544 00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:46,317 If he's ever mentioned this to her. 545 00:24:46,385 --> 00:24:48,352 Our suspect, thomas norfleet, 546 00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:50,120 Passed away a couple of years ago, 547 00:24:50,122 --> 00:24:53,156 And his wife at the time died of natural causes 548 00:24:53,225 --> 00:24:57,461 Shortly after emmaline's murder, but he did remarry in 1992. 549 00:24:57,529 --> 00:25:01,364 Sparks: Janice, do you mind talking with us out here? 550 00:25:01,434 --> 00:25:03,867 Rider: That ex-wife could be the best witness we have 551 00:25:03,936 --> 00:25:06,237 Into norfleet's character, his demeanor, 552 00:25:06,305 --> 00:25:08,272 And if he said anything incriminating. 553 00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:11,474 Yeah, I have always hated it 554 00:25:11,476 --> 00:25:15,913 That miss croft's murder was never solved. 555 00:25:15,981 --> 00:25:19,716 And everybody had their own opinion. 556 00:25:19,785 --> 00:25:23,386 Rider: Had tom ever been violent toward you? 557 00:25:23,388 --> 00:25:25,822 One time... 558 00:25:25,891 --> 00:25:28,458 I was getting ready for work, 559 00:25:28,527 --> 00:25:30,661 And he was fussing about something. 560 00:25:30,729 --> 00:25:34,064 I was saying, "I don't know what you're mad about," 561 00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:36,900 And he slapped me. 562 00:25:36,969 --> 00:25:40,738 Do you think tom would be capable of hurting miss croft? 563 00:25:40,806 --> 00:25:44,574 I don't think so. I think he respected miss croft, 564 00:25:44,644 --> 00:25:49,980 And I really don't think that he would have hurt her. 565 00:25:50,049 --> 00:25:54,417 I really don't think he was capable of murder, 566 00:25:54,487 --> 00:25:56,086 Especially not her. 567 00:25:56,088 --> 00:25:58,655 Yeah, we talked about it several times, 568 00:25:58,724 --> 00:26:02,425 And he said that the grandson came over 569 00:26:02,427 --> 00:26:05,262 And asked him to pull up his shirt. 570 00:26:05,331 --> 00:26:10,667 He wanted to see if he had any marks 571 00:26:10,736 --> 00:26:12,869 Where she had fought back. 572 00:26:12,871 --> 00:26:15,105 Tom said, "I pulled my shirt up 573 00:26:15,174 --> 00:26:18,842 And I showed him I didn't have any scratch marks." 574 00:26:18,911 --> 00:26:23,714 He said, "now pull your shirt up and show me your back." 575 00:26:23,782 --> 00:26:28,919 And he said, "the boy didn't have any marks." 576 00:26:28,987 --> 00:26:30,420 Rider: Janice confirms 577 00:26:30,422 --> 00:26:32,489 Thomas norfleet was not a nice man. 578 00:26:32,558 --> 00:26:34,525 But according to her, after the murder, 579 00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:36,459 Dennis confronted thomas about it, 580 00:26:36,461 --> 00:26:38,696 But neither of them had scratches or marks. 581 00:26:38,764 --> 00:26:40,964 Well, thank you again for your time, ma'am. 582 00:26:41,033 --> 00:26:43,333 While neither of them are alive to confirm it, 583 00:26:43,402 --> 00:26:45,202 That helps to clear thomas and dennis. 584 00:26:53,178 --> 00:26:54,945 Hughes: Hopefully she's willing to talk. 585 00:26:55,014 --> 00:26:58,916 Well, it would be helpful for the best victim 586 00:26:58,984 --> 00:27:02,886 In darren's life back then to tell us how bad was it? 587 00:27:02,955 --> 00:27:04,888 - You know what I mean? - Definitely. 588 00:27:04,957 --> 00:27:07,925 Siegler: Neither thomas norfleet or dennis kimsey 589 00:27:07,993 --> 00:27:10,060 Have ever been accused of sexual crimes, 590 00:27:10,062 --> 00:27:11,628 But darren ethridge was. 591 00:27:11,696 --> 00:27:14,164 Even though he was never tried for sexual assault, 592 00:27:14,233 --> 00:27:17,367 We know all about his alleged rape in texas, 593 00:27:17,436 --> 00:27:20,704 Where he fled and assaulted a police officer with his car. 594 00:27:20,772 --> 00:27:22,205 - Oh, I bet that's her. - Oh, I'll guarantee it. 595 00:27:22,274 --> 00:27:23,774 She's going to want some ac. 596 00:27:23,842 --> 00:27:26,843 Hey, I'm detective hughes with alcoa. How you doing? 597 00:27:26,912 --> 00:27:28,679 Siegler: We can't confirm the conviction, 598 00:27:28,747 --> 00:27:30,647 But darren was also accused 599 00:27:30,716 --> 00:27:33,150 Of stalking a woman here in tennessee, 600 00:27:33,218 --> 00:27:35,352 And it's important that we talk to her. 601 00:27:35,420 --> 00:27:37,687 We're looking into the emmaline croft homicide, 602 00:27:37,757 --> 00:27:39,256 So we're trying to get a better feel 603 00:27:39,324 --> 00:27:40,857 For what was going on with darren. 604 00:27:40,926 --> 00:27:43,727 Siegler: Darren ethridge. Your old boyfriend. 605 00:27:43,795 --> 00:27:46,029 Woman: He ain't my boyfriend. Oh, no, ma'am. 606 00:27:46,098 --> 00:27:47,797 Siegler: Old boyfriend. 607 00:27:47,867 --> 00:27:49,166 - Woman: No. - He wasn't your boyfriend? 608 00:27:49,234 --> 00:27:51,601 You need to check more county records. 609 00:27:51,670 --> 00:27:53,703 - He wasn't your boyfriend? - No. 610 00:27:53,705 --> 00:27:55,139 Okay, so starting-- how'd you meet him? 611 00:28:01,179 --> 00:28:03,180 Was he actually making statements and doing things? 612 00:28:03,248 --> 00:28:04,848 What was he saying? 613 00:28:19,798 --> 00:28:22,532 When you run the report, 614 00:28:22,534 --> 00:28:25,202 You come back with these stalking incidents 615 00:28:25,270 --> 00:28:27,805 That happened a long time ago, back in 1995, 616 00:28:27,807 --> 00:28:29,840 Five years after our murder. 617 00:28:29,908 --> 00:28:32,175 We think that we're going to go talk to the girl 618 00:28:32,177 --> 00:28:33,777 That was a victim of a stalking, 619 00:28:33,846 --> 00:28:36,146 A girlfriend from way back in the day. 620 00:28:36,215 --> 00:28:38,115 And then she tells us that they never dated. 621 00:28:38,183 --> 00:28:40,050 She met him at work 622 00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:41,752 And everything went crazy right after that. 623 00:28:44,757 --> 00:28:46,090 He broke into your apartment? 624 00:28:53,966 --> 00:28:56,500 He took your panties. 625 00:28:59,905 --> 00:29:01,605 And our panties were missing. 626 00:29:01,673 --> 00:29:03,773 He burglarized her apartment. 627 00:29:03,775 --> 00:29:05,609 He stole her panties. 628 00:29:08,714 --> 00:29:12,015 And then you start comparing this beautiful, credible witness 629 00:29:12,084 --> 00:29:14,217 To the murder case that we're looking at. 630 00:29:14,286 --> 00:29:16,453 And I don't know. 631 00:29:16,521 --> 00:29:18,388 Miss emmaline's panties have never been found. 632 00:29:24,129 --> 00:29:27,030 Tonya, she says, "he scared the hell out of me. 633 00:29:27,098 --> 00:29:28,798 I'm scared to death of him today." 634 00:29:28,868 --> 00:29:31,434 And she said nobody would listen. 635 00:29:31,503 --> 00:29:33,636 Can't have a more believable witness. 636 00:29:33,638 --> 00:29:38,475 And she says he's scary crazy. What you thinking? 637 00:29:38,543 --> 00:29:42,212 Just about the underwear and then hers being missing. 638 00:29:42,281 --> 00:29:44,114 And they're never recovered. I never understood it. 639 00:29:44,183 --> 00:29:46,250 - Where's her underwear? - Right. 640 00:29:58,730 --> 00:30:00,397 Okay, so your hoping 641 00:30:00,598 --> 00:30:02,599 When darren walks into his parole visit, 642 00:30:02,668 --> 00:30:05,368 He has to cooperate somewhat. 643 00:30:05,437 --> 00:30:07,470 - That's a condition of parole. - Correct. 644 00:30:07,539 --> 00:30:10,040 Siegler: Darren ethridge was never really looked that hard 645 00:30:10,108 --> 00:30:12,910 As a suspect for his grandmother's murder back then, 646 00:30:12,978 --> 00:30:15,478 So he was never really interviewed at all. 647 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,082 You have to wonder when did his criminal activities begin. 648 00:30:19,151 --> 00:30:21,218 We do know that his mother and dad 649 00:30:21,286 --> 00:30:24,454 Moved him to texas sometime after the murder. 650 00:30:24,523 --> 00:30:25,823 - Hello. - How are you? 651 00:30:25,891 --> 00:30:29,226 I'm a parole officer. I was just notified. 652 00:30:29,294 --> 00:30:31,328 Woody hughes. How are you? 653 00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:34,531 Darren is currently on parole for driving while intoxicated. 654 00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:37,634 So our hope today is to surprise interview him 655 00:30:37,636 --> 00:30:40,437 When he comes in for his regular parole visit. 656 00:30:40,505 --> 00:30:43,040 We're doing a deep dive into the murder of your grandmother. 657 00:30:43,108 --> 00:30:45,475 So, would you care to talk to us about that? 658 00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:48,178 How old were you? 659 00:30:50,816 --> 00:30:53,517 Siegler: Often did you talk to our grandma back then? 660 00:30:55,887 --> 00:30:59,256 The day of the murder or the time frame or whatever, 661 00:30:59,324 --> 00:31:01,491 Where were you at? If you can remember. 662 00:31:03,261 --> 00:31:05,195 When you heard the news, what did you do then? 663 00:31:08,166 --> 00:31:11,868 Does your dad think that some unknown person did it 664 00:31:11,936 --> 00:31:13,236 Who just got away with it? 665 00:31:13,305 --> 00:31:15,238 'cause the file says that maybe some people 666 00:31:15,307 --> 00:31:17,107 Thought denny was involved. 667 00:31:17,175 --> 00:31:18,408 What does your dad think? 668 00:31:35,727 --> 00:31:37,560 You talked about you've been in trouble with the law. 669 00:31:37,629 --> 00:31:40,030 The file says something about you were 670 00:31:40,098 --> 00:31:42,032 In a little trouble back in tennessee, 671 00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:43,767 And that's kind of why y'all moved to texas. 672 00:31:52,745 --> 00:31:55,946 Is that a girlfriend? 673 00:31:56,014 --> 00:31:58,949 And what, she broke up with you or you broke up with her? 674 00:32:00,986 --> 00:32:02,652 She dumped you? 675 00:32:02,721 --> 00:32:04,321 Because, you know, we can pull up the report 676 00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:06,256 Where we see the back-and-forth kind of juvenile 677 00:32:06,325 --> 00:32:08,658 Throwing eggs at each other bull--, right? 678 00:32:08,727 --> 00:32:10,627 Is that all it was? 679 00:32:12,031 --> 00:32:14,765 Serious enough for your dad to move you to texas over that? 680 00:32:22,474 --> 00:32:24,408 What's the ugliest it got? 681 00:32:26,045 --> 00:32:27,811 Hughes: Did you get arrested for that? 682 00:32:27,879 --> 00:32:29,079 Siegler: She said something 683 00:32:29,147 --> 00:32:31,915 About her panties in your apartment. 684 00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:45,462 What happened with the case you went to tdc on 685 00:32:45,530 --> 00:32:47,564 When you went out with that girl to the bar? 686 00:32:57,076 --> 00:32:59,276 What was going on there at the lake 687 00:32:59,344 --> 00:33:02,612 To make him want to stop, check on y'all on the first place? 688 00:33:08,787 --> 00:33:10,253 And the girl? 689 00:33:13,224 --> 00:33:14,992 Consensual making out? 690 00:33:23,168 --> 00:33:25,002 She screamed something else? What, like rape? 691 00:33:28,006 --> 00:33:29,373 But it wasn't rape. 692 00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:36,546 During darren's jury trial 693 00:33:36,548 --> 00:33:39,749 For assaulting the cop as he tried to flee, 694 00:33:39,751 --> 00:33:42,419 All the facts from that night were admissible. 695 00:33:42,487 --> 00:33:45,955 And his texas victim testified that he was raping her 696 00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:49,192 When that cop showed up and saved her. 697 00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:50,861 Did you hear the family ever talk about 698 00:33:50,929 --> 00:33:53,396 How granny was found without her panties on, 699 00:33:53,464 --> 00:33:55,866 Somebody took her panties? 700 00:33:55,934 --> 00:33:57,200 And then we have-- 701 00:33:57,268 --> 00:33:59,736 Who says you came into her apartment 702 00:33:59,804 --> 00:34:02,572 Without her permission and took her panties. 703 00:34:03,875 --> 00:34:05,775 No correlation? 704 00:34:05,844 --> 00:34:07,944 You don't seem to have very healthy relationships 705 00:34:08,013 --> 00:34:10,213 With women, though, mr. Ethridge. 706 00:34:15,821 --> 00:34:17,854 It is. 707 00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:23,160 You can break into--apartment and take her negligee, 708 00:34:23,228 --> 00:34:24,694 Her pajamas, and her panties. 709 00:34:28,366 --> 00:34:30,434 That's what she says. 710 00:34:33,772 --> 00:34:36,173 Just like the girl at the park here in texas. 711 00:34:36,175 --> 00:34:39,242 She exaggerating or embellishing when she cried rape? 712 00:34:39,310 --> 00:34:40,911 Hughes: I mean, the worst-case scenario for her at that time 713 00:34:40,979 --> 00:34:42,612 Would have just been a citation 714 00:34:42,681 --> 00:34:44,447 For being in the park after dark. 715 00:34:44,515 --> 00:34:46,082 If I'm just looking at a misdemeanor citation, 716 00:34:46,151 --> 00:34:47,184 I'm not going to scream rape. 717 00:34:50,155 --> 00:34:51,921 How are we supposed to believe you 718 00:34:51,923 --> 00:34:53,890 About what happened with your grandma 719 00:34:53,959 --> 00:34:55,725 If you won't tell us the truth about the rest of it? 720 00:34:58,763 --> 00:35:01,431 Not important whether or not we believe you 721 00:35:01,499 --> 00:35:04,134 That you committed a capital murder of your own grandma? 722 00:35:09,975 --> 00:35:11,741 Well, you're looking at two people 723 00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:13,043 Who suspect you of that, sir. 724 00:35:22,387 --> 00:35:24,921 Every single thing that we brought up, 725 00:35:24,989 --> 00:35:26,856 He didn't tell the truth about. 726 00:35:26,925 --> 00:35:28,791 You know, what happened with the girl 727 00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:31,228 That he worked with back in tennessee, 728 00:35:31,296 --> 00:35:33,095 What happened with the girl that he got arrested 729 00:35:33,097 --> 00:35:35,232 For sexually assaulting here in texas. 730 00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:37,701 He's not emotional about losing his grandmother. 731 00:35:37,769 --> 00:35:39,236 That doesn't make him guilty, 732 00:35:39,304 --> 00:35:41,638 But it sure keeps him on the suspect board. 733 00:35:41,706 --> 00:35:43,940 I think it's crazy that after we leave, 734 00:35:44,009 --> 00:35:46,109 His parole officer asked darren 735 00:35:46,177 --> 00:35:47,978 Were they looking at you as a suspect, 736 00:35:48,046 --> 00:35:50,880 And he says, no, like he thinks we don't know a single thing 737 00:35:50,949 --> 00:35:52,448 With a police report anywhere. 738 00:35:52,517 --> 00:35:54,885 He's definitely odd, weird, creepy, 739 00:35:54,953 --> 00:35:56,519 Whatever you want to call him. 740 00:35:56,521 --> 00:35:57,854 He's all the above. 741 00:35:58,389 --> 00:36:09,533 - Rider: Morning. - Good morning. 742 00:36:09,601 --> 00:36:11,167 Siegler: Good morning, guys. 743 00:36:11,235 --> 00:36:13,803 It's time we review everything we've learned. 744 00:36:13,805 --> 00:36:17,440 What can we prove today 33 years later 745 00:36:17,508 --> 00:36:18,909 In the murder of emmaline croft? 746 00:36:18,977 --> 00:36:23,313 Why don't we start with deceased thomas norfleet first? 747 00:36:23,381 --> 00:36:25,081 Now that we've talked to family members 748 00:36:25,150 --> 00:36:27,149 Who had working theories all these years, 749 00:36:27,151 --> 00:36:31,621 Any witness or piece of evidence that points straight at norfleet 750 00:36:31,690 --> 00:36:33,756 Being the person who killed miss emmaline? 751 00:36:33,825 --> 00:36:35,758 - We don't have anything. - I don't think anything. 752 00:36:35,827 --> 00:36:37,560 We didn't even have anybody that confirmed 753 00:36:37,629 --> 00:36:39,562 That he was messing around with miss emmaline 754 00:36:39,631 --> 00:36:40,797 That would have been the motive for all this. 755 00:36:40,865 --> 00:36:42,565 - Do we? - No. 756 00:36:42,634 --> 00:36:46,335 I really don't think he was capable of murder. 757 00:36:46,405 --> 00:36:48,170 Do y'all all agree that we can clear him 758 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,572 Once and for all as a suspect? 759 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:50,907 - Yep. - I agree. 760 00:36:50,975 --> 00:36:52,542 - Yes. - Okay. 761 00:36:52,610 --> 00:36:55,979 Circumstantial evidence can clear suspects 762 00:36:56,047 --> 00:36:58,481 Just as much as it can incriminate them. 763 00:36:58,550 --> 00:37:00,250 And when it suggests that they're innocent, 764 00:37:00,318 --> 00:37:02,952 It's our responsibility to rule them out. 765 00:37:02,954 --> 00:37:08,024 Okay. Dennis kimsey, emmaline's grandson. 766 00:37:08,092 --> 00:37:11,061 And we talked to lots of people in that family, mostly women, 767 00:37:11,129 --> 00:37:14,864 Who gave us the good, the bad, and the ugly on denny. 768 00:37:14,933 --> 00:37:16,699 Right? I don't think they held back. 769 00:37:16,701 --> 00:37:18,368 But what do they all tell us about 770 00:37:18,436 --> 00:37:21,137 Would denny be able to sexually assault and murder 771 00:37:21,206 --> 00:37:23,940 His own grandma that way? 772 00:37:24,008 --> 00:37:25,341 Everyone said no. 773 00:37:25,410 --> 00:37:27,510 Get mad and accidentally kill her-- 774 00:37:27,579 --> 00:37:29,812 Hands down, I could totally see that. 775 00:37:29,881 --> 00:37:33,115 But to carry through the sexual stuff, 776 00:37:33,185 --> 00:37:34,951 I find it very hard to believe. 777 00:37:35,020 --> 00:37:37,620 Would he be capable of killing someone? 778 00:37:37,622 --> 00:37:38,888 Yeah, but not his granny. 779 00:37:38,890 --> 00:37:40,623 I agree with lieutenant sparks on that. 780 00:37:40,692 --> 00:37:42,525 I don't think he would have been able to do that, 781 00:37:42,594 --> 00:37:45,027 Especially throwing in the sexual assault part of it. 782 00:37:45,097 --> 00:37:46,863 And it feels like even denny himself 783 00:37:46,931 --> 00:37:48,765 Was trying to solve the case. 784 00:37:48,833 --> 00:37:52,168 The grandson asked him to pull up his shirt. 785 00:37:52,236 --> 00:37:55,872 Tom said, "I showed him I didn't have any scratch marks." 786 00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:57,607 I think he should be taken off the board. 787 00:37:57,675 --> 00:37:58,908 - Yep. - Yes. 788 00:37:58,977 --> 00:38:00,876 - Yeah. - All right. 789 00:38:00,946 --> 00:38:02,645 Denny's off the board. 790 00:38:02,713 --> 00:38:04,781 But denny's world of people, what are y'all thinking? 791 00:38:04,849 --> 00:38:06,216 I think that when you run 792 00:38:06,284 --> 00:38:08,818 With the type of individuals dennis ran with, 793 00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:11,053 That you're liable to make someone pissed off. 794 00:38:11,123 --> 00:38:14,524 He could have owed somebody money or ripped somebody off 795 00:38:14,592 --> 00:38:17,026 Or something to that effect 796 00:38:17,028 --> 00:38:20,330 To cause them to go over there and do that to him 797 00:38:20,398 --> 00:38:22,799 'cause they knew also how much he loved granny. 798 00:38:22,867 --> 00:38:26,769 And the one way to get him back is to do something to her. 799 00:38:26,771 --> 00:38:30,440 So, unknown suspect--what do we do with up here on the board? 800 00:38:30,508 --> 00:38:31,441 - Keep him up there. - He stays. 801 00:38:31,509 --> 00:38:32,809 Gotta stay. 802 00:38:32,877 --> 00:38:34,744 Here's where things get muddy. 803 00:38:34,813 --> 00:38:37,780 While we don't believe that dennis had it in him 804 00:38:37,782 --> 00:38:39,816 To sexually assault his grandmother, 805 00:38:39,884 --> 00:38:42,652 He ran with a really rough crowd. 806 00:38:42,654 --> 00:38:44,587 So the possibility still exists 807 00:38:44,656 --> 00:38:46,889 That somebody from that really rough crowd 808 00:38:46,958 --> 00:38:50,627 Could have come looking for him or come seeking revenge. 809 00:38:50,695 --> 00:38:52,595 And then you have darren ethridge. 810 00:38:52,663 --> 00:38:54,864 He's a convicted felon now, 811 00:38:54,933 --> 00:38:58,467 But back then, what do we have evidence-wise 812 00:38:58,469 --> 00:39:03,072 That points to darren be the one who killed his own grandma? 813 00:39:03,141 --> 00:39:04,441 We just don't know. 814 00:39:04,443 --> 00:39:08,178 What was going on so bad in that boy's life 815 00:39:08,246 --> 00:39:10,946 That his family felt the need to get him out of the whole state? 816 00:39:11,016 --> 00:39:12,148 And then the girls. 817 00:39:12,217 --> 00:39:14,551 You had this history of behavior. 818 00:39:19,724 --> 00:39:21,658 Yesterday, he could have sat down and said, 819 00:39:21,726 --> 00:39:24,060 "yeah, I did that. Man, I messed up." 820 00:39:24,128 --> 00:39:27,030 Anything you brought up, he didn't own a thing. 821 00:39:27,098 --> 00:39:30,867 You can break into--apartment and take her panties. 822 00:39:33,838 --> 00:39:36,373 Just like the girl at the park here in texas? 823 00:39:36,441 --> 00:39:39,508 She exaggerating or embellishing when she cried rape? 824 00:39:39,578 --> 00:39:42,478 But other than the similarity with the stolen panties, 825 00:39:42,547 --> 00:39:46,983 Does any of this directly point to his grandma? 826 00:39:47,051 --> 00:39:48,618 - Nope. - No. 827 00:39:48,686 --> 00:39:52,122 No. To me, I'm walking away from this town thinking, 828 00:39:52,190 --> 00:39:55,858 I still believe the evidence leans toward darren, 829 00:39:55,927 --> 00:39:57,126 But you're not even close 830 00:39:57,195 --> 00:39:59,662 To having enough to file any charges. 831 00:39:59,730 --> 00:40:02,865 There's no nice way to put it. We did not get there. 832 00:40:02,934 --> 00:40:04,534 We didn't solve the case. 833 00:40:04,602 --> 00:40:06,602 We did not get the answers we wanted. 834 00:40:06,671 --> 00:40:08,070 We did not get justice 835 00:40:08,072 --> 00:40:10,005 For miss emmaline or for her family. 836 00:40:10,075 --> 00:40:13,409 I just don't understand how when you have a victim like her 837 00:40:13,478 --> 00:40:16,212 And she gets murdered this horrible, horrible way, 838 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,314 Maybe even by her own family member, 839 00:40:18,383 --> 00:40:21,050 And god won't let us solve this case right now. 840 00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:22,318 It doesn't make any sense to me 841 00:40:22,386 --> 00:40:24,387 When I'm trying to make it all make sense. 842 00:40:24,455 --> 00:40:26,055 I don't know how to say how bad it feels 843 00:40:26,124 --> 00:40:28,158 To leave a case this way. 844 00:40:28,226 --> 00:40:31,427 The only good news we can say is that we're leaving this case 845 00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:34,296 In very capable hands with detective hughes, 846 00:40:34,298 --> 00:40:36,432 Lieutenant sparks, and ron schroeder, 847 00:40:36,501 --> 00:40:38,734 'cause they're going to continue to do whatever they can 848 00:40:38,803 --> 00:40:41,303 To try and get justice for miss emmaline. 849 00:40:41,305 --> 00:40:42,505 We're going to keep knocking on doors. 850 00:40:42,574 --> 00:40:43,606 We're going to keep calling people 851 00:40:43,674 --> 00:40:45,574 Until we get something. 852 00:40:45,644 --> 00:40:48,010 Now that it's out there again, something's going to happen. 853 00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:49,312 - You're still hopeful? - I am. 854 00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:50,246 - You, too? - Oh, yes. 855 00:40:50,315 --> 00:40:51,181 Good. 856 00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:58,822 ♪ my blood spills its red for you ♪ 857 00:41:00,792 --> 00:41:05,527 ♪ your love flows it slows my bones ♪ 858 00:41:05,529 --> 00:41:07,397 Siegler: Remember when you first talked to tim? 859 00:41:07,465 --> 00:41:09,999 He was worried that it was denny. 860 00:41:10,001 --> 00:41:12,034 Yeah. I don't know if he's held any animosity 861 00:41:12,103 --> 00:41:13,603 Against him over the years. 862 00:41:13,671 --> 00:41:16,472 Just in the back of his mind, thinking that it's him. 863 00:41:16,474 --> 00:41:19,375 I think one of the worst things about this job is having 864 00:41:19,444 --> 00:41:23,112 To tell miss emmaline's grandson that we didn't get justice 865 00:41:23,181 --> 00:41:25,348 And we didn't get the answers he wants. 866 00:41:25,416 --> 00:41:27,349 The good thing that we can tell him, though, 867 00:41:27,419 --> 00:41:29,518 Is that his brother was not involved 868 00:41:29,588 --> 00:41:30,720 In what happened to his grandmother, 869 00:41:30,788 --> 00:41:32,722 And I hope that makes him feel better. 870 00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:34,557 So, it's been a long week. 871 00:41:34,625 --> 00:41:37,327 - I wish I had better news. - Okay. 872 00:41:37,395 --> 00:41:39,996 So, we did a deep dive into everybody, 873 00:41:40,064 --> 00:41:42,231 Including the neighbor, mr. Norfleet. 874 00:41:42,233 --> 00:41:45,234 We feel comfortable ruling him out as a suspect, 875 00:41:45,303 --> 00:41:46,903 And then we can move on to denny. 876 00:41:46,971 --> 00:41:48,604 A bad past, 877 00:41:48,673 --> 00:41:50,773 Was into a lot of stuff and everything like that. 878 00:41:50,842 --> 00:41:52,909 But everybody we talked to, 879 00:41:52,977 --> 00:41:54,543 He could never do that to granny. 880 00:41:54,545 --> 00:41:58,114 That doesn't rule out somebody he may have ran with. 881 00:41:58,182 --> 00:42:01,284 But with confidence, we can say that he's not the one. 882 00:42:01,352 --> 00:42:02,151 Okay. 883 00:42:02,220 --> 00:42:04,787 It gives me relief. 884 00:42:04,856 --> 00:42:07,023 And it's my prayer that it'll give others relief 885 00:42:07,091 --> 00:42:11,393 To know that--that he is-- he's cleared. 886 00:42:11,463 --> 00:42:14,530 Maybe his legacy could be different. 887 00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:16,532 Then we move on to darren. 888 00:42:16,601 --> 00:42:19,836 Now, we don't have enough right now 889 00:42:19,904 --> 00:42:22,271 To definitively say that he's responsible, 890 00:42:22,340 --> 00:42:24,540 But we can't rule him out yet. 891 00:42:24,609 --> 00:42:26,042 I understand. 892 00:42:26,110 --> 00:42:27,777 It's just hard for us to sit here and think 893 00:42:27,845 --> 00:42:30,579 That a woman like her, 894 00:42:30,581 --> 00:42:32,681 With all that she did for everybody, 895 00:42:32,751 --> 00:42:34,951 We can't get the answer and we can't get her justice. 896 00:42:35,019 --> 00:42:36,986 So we're frustrated. 897 00:42:37,055 --> 00:42:38,588 He couldn't have tried any harder. 898 00:42:38,656 --> 00:42:40,957 - He's going to keep trying. - This isn't the end. 899 00:42:41,025 --> 00:42:43,593 We've stirred the pot again, so we're not quitting. 900 00:42:43,661 --> 00:42:45,561 I appreciate that. 901 00:42:45,629 --> 00:42:48,565 You know, my grandmother deserved it. 902 00:42:48,633 --> 00:42:53,336 She deserved you doing as much as you can do. 903 00:42:53,404 --> 00:42:56,573 And you also know with what you do for a living, 904 00:42:56,641 --> 00:42:59,175 There's a chance you might not get the justice 905 00:42:59,243 --> 00:43:00,476 Here on this side. 906 00:43:00,545 --> 00:43:02,711 No. But I know I serve a god. 907 00:43:02,781 --> 00:43:04,881 And I sincerely believe she's there with him. 908 00:43:04,949 --> 00:43:07,784 And she's--she's good. 909 00:43:07,852 --> 00:43:09,952 Well, it was wonderful meeting you. 910 00:43:10,021 --> 00:43:12,855 - Thanks. - Thank you very much. 911 00:43:12,924 --> 00:43:15,791 If you have any information about this case 912 00:43:15,860 --> 00:43:19,195 Or about the suspects involved in this investigation, 913 00:43:19,263 --> 00:43:22,565 Please contact the alcoa police department. 914 00:43:22,633 --> 00:43:25,201 You could have the missing piece of information 915 00:43:25,269 --> 00:43:27,203 That solves this case. 916 00:43:27,271 --> 00:43:28,638 - Really good, brother. - All right. 917 00:43:28,706 --> 00:43:29,939 - Call me if I can help anyway. - Oh, yeah. 918 00:43:31,876 --> 00:43:34,043 Siegler: You did good. That was good. 919 00:43:34,112 --> 00:43:35,778 I think he heard you.