1
00:00:12,945 --> 00:00:15,914
Woman: ♪ places that you go ♪
2
00:00:15,983 --> 00:00:18,650
♪ secrets that you keep ♪
3
00:00:18,719 --> 00:00:25,891
♪ as you keep me in the dark ♪
4
00:00:28,128 --> 00:00:30,395
Siegler: It was
in December of 1990
5
00:00:30,397 --> 00:00:35,099
That emmaline croft
was discovered brutally murdered
6
00:00:35,101 --> 00:00:36,135
In her house.
7
00:00:36,137 --> 00:00:38,103
Did you look at those pictures?
8
00:00:38,171 --> 00:00:40,338
- I did.
- Those pictures were horrible.
9
00:00:40,407 --> 00:00:42,741
It seemed like overkill,
you know.
10
00:00:42,809 --> 00:00:44,642
You're either
really, really high
11
00:00:44,712 --> 00:00:47,479
Or really, really sick
to be able to do that.
12
00:00:47,548 --> 00:00:49,581
As a cold-case prosecutor,
13
00:00:49,583 --> 00:00:51,616
I've seen lots
of crime-scene photos,
14
00:00:51,685 --> 00:00:53,919
But it's really rare
for a prosecutor
15
00:00:53,987 --> 00:00:55,854
To be the one
that walks in on a crime scene.
16
00:00:55,923 --> 00:00:57,789
And I can only imagine
the horror
17
00:00:57,858 --> 00:01:01,292
Of discovering miss emmaline's
body back in 1990.
18
00:01:01,362 --> 00:01:04,429
Carroll: I got a phone call
from miss croft's son.
19
00:01:04,498 --> 00:01:07,933
He said, "have you seen
granny croft out?"
20
00:01:08,001 --> 00:01:12,404
And I said, "no, I haven't seen
her in a few days actually."
21
00:01:12,473 --> 00:01:15,774
And he said, "would you do me
a favor and go check on her?"
22
00:01:17,143 --> 00:01:18,510
I opened the door.
23
00:01:18,578 --> 00:01:20,679
[camera bulb flashing]
24
00:01:22,383 --> 00:01:23,882
[sobs]
25
00:01:57,017 --> 00:01:58,884
Rider: That's quite a big file.
26
00:01:58,952 --> 00:02:00,819
Yeah, I know.
27
00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:04,623
- Hello.
- Hi.
28
00:02:04,691 --> 00:02:06,324
We're here
to see lieutenant sparks.
29
00:02:06,393 --> 00:02:07,592
Okay. I'll let him know
you're here.
30
00:02:07,594 --> 00:02:08,793
- Thank you.
- Thank you.
31
00:02:08,795 --> 00:02:10,261
Siegler:
I first heard about this case
32
00:02:10,331 --> 00:02:13,365
Because of a retired
florida cop named ron schroeder.
33
00:02:13,433 --> 00:02:15,467
He moved here
and started helping out
34
00:02:15,535 --> 00:02:17,769
The alcoa police department
with their cold cases.
35
00:02:17,838 --> 00:02:20,905
With tonya being from ohio
and me being from texas,
36
00:02:20,974 --> 00:02:23,241
That makes law enforcement
from four different states
37
00:02:23,310 --> 00:02:24,409
Working on this case.
38
00:02:24,478 --> 00:02:26,278
- Hello.
- Hello, guys.
39
00:02:26,346 --> 00:02:28,580
- How are you? Woody hughes.
- Woody, I'm kelly.
40
00:02:28,649 --> 00:02:30,182
- Tonya.
- Nice to meet you.
41
00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:31,150
- Doug sparks.
- Nice to meet you.
42
00:02:31,218 --> 00:02:33,518
Oh, ron,
who I've been talking to.
43
00:02:33,587 --> 00:02:35,620
Nice to meet you. I told tonya
I've been talking to you.
44
00:02:35,622 --> 00:02:38,823
The lack of a clear motive has
really haunted law enforcement
45
00:02:38,825 --> 00:02:41,125
And this whole community
for three decades.
46
00:02:41,127 --> 00:02:43,462
And because this case is so old,
47
00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:45,930
This really could be
our last chance to solve it.
48
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,568
What was emmaline like?
What was her world back then?
49
00:02:49,636 --> 00:02:51,904
Everybody loved her.
She was a grandmother, a mother.
50
00:02:51,972 --> 00:02:53,672
She had five kids.
51
00:02:53,740 --> 00:02:56,307
How about grandkids?
How many?
52
00:02:56,309 --> 00:02:59,444
Schroeder: Four boys. She was
very active in her church.
53
00:02:59,512 --> 00:03:02,380
She took care of all people
in the neighborhood.
54
00:03:02,449 --> 00:03:05,750
They all called her granny.
Didn't have any enemies at all.
55
00:03:05,752 --> 00:03:08,219
I previously worked for
the toledo police department's
56
00:03:08,221 --> 00:03:11,189
Special victims unit, where
we focused on investigating
57
00:03:11,257 --> 00:03:13,625
Sexual assaults
against women and children.
58
00:03:13,694 --> 00:03:15,927
Mrs. Croft was killed
the year that I graduated
59
00:03:15,996 --> 00:03:17,996
From the toledo police academy.
60
00:03:18,064 --> 00:03:20,299
And for her murder
to go unsolved through
61
00:03:20,301 --> 00:03:22,734
My whole entire professional
law enforcement career
62
00:03:22,803 --> 00:03:24,469
Is really a tragedy.
63
00:03:24,538 --> 00:03:28,106
So on December 8, 1990,
they found emmaline
64
00:03:28,174 --> 00:03:30,875
Laying on a sofa
in the living room.
65
00:03:30,877 --> 00:03:33,211
The nightgown
she was wearing was ripped,
66
00:03:33,279 --> 00:03:34,980
And there's
two pieces of nightgown
67
00:03:35,048 --> 00:03:37,081
Laying on the floor
in front of the couch.
68
00:03:37,151 --> 00:03:40,085
She had blunt force trauma
to her head.
69
00:03:40,153 --> 00:03:43,188
She had been stabbed in the neck
several times,
70
00:03:43,190 --> 00:03:45,023
And she had puncture
and scrape marks
71
00:03:45,091 --> 00:03:47,359
About her face
and her torso area.
72
00:03:47,427 --> 00:03:49,894
They found a large kitchen knife
in the hallway.
73
00:03:49,963 --> 00:03:52,096
And actually,
they found a bent fork
74
00:03:52,098 --> 00:03:54,366
Laying by one of her feet
on the floor.
75
00:03:54,434 --> 00:03:56,668
And they actually thought that
she'd been sexually assaulted.
76
00:03:56,737 --> 00:03:59,404
- With an object or by a man?
- We don't know for sure.
77
00:03:59,406 --> 00:04:01,173
And there was
no forced entry, right?
78
00:04:01,241 --> 00:04:02,807
- Correct.
- Okay.
79
00:04:02,876 --> 00:04:05,476
Emmaline was stabbed
with a knife and a fork
80
00:04:05,478 --> 00:04:08,212
And raped vaginally and anally.
81
00:04:08,214 --> 00:04:11,283
The strange thing is,
this was such a violent crime,
82
00:04:11,351 --> 00:04:13,585
But yet there are
no viable fingerprints,
83
00:04:13,654 --> 00:04:16,254
There was no semen left behind,
84
00:04:16,323 --> 00:04:18,490
And all the dna testing
came up empty.
85
00:04:18,558 --> 00:04:20,325
Was there anything at all
86
00:04:20,393 --> 00:04:23,227
That made her vulnerable to
something like this happening?
87
00:04:23,229 --> 00:04:24,663
No.
88
00:04:24,731 --> 00:04:27,231
Siegler: That's what makes
this case so crazy.
89
00:04:27,233 --> 00:04:30,034
In all cold cases, you have
to consider the possibility
90
00:04:30,103 --> 00:04:31,770
Of an unknown assailant,
91
00:04:31,838 --> 00:04:34,138
That some violent criminal
out there
92
00:04:34,140 --> 00:04:36,308
Picked poor emmaline
as an easy target.
93
00:04:36,376 --> 00:04:38,276
And while we keep
all that in mind,
94
00:04:38,345 --> 00:04:40,344
There were others
that the investigators believed
95
00:04:40,346 --> 00:04:42,046
To be persons of interest.
96
00:04:42,115 --> 00:04:44,983
All right, how about
we start with thomas norfleet?
97
00:04:45,051 --> 00:04:47,952
- Sparks: He was her neighbor.
- Also longtime friends.
98
00:04:47,954 --> 00:04:50,722
Sparks: A few people believed
that miss croft and norfleet
99
00:04:50,791 --> 00:04:53,125
Were having an affair
at some point.
100
00:04:53,193 --> 00:04:55,026
She had told family members
and other friends
101
00:04:55,095 --> 00:04:57,596
That she and he
had a falling-out.
102
00:04:57,664 --> 00:05:00,098
It was over
her visitation of his wife.
103
00:05:00,167 --> 00:05:02,100
- She was very sick, right?
- Yes.
104
00:05:02,169 --> 00:05:03,802
And I think we care
because we want to know
105
00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:06,204
How much of a stressor
that is on him, right?
106
00:05:06,273 --> 00:05:10,141
Thomas norfleet was emmaline's
neighbor, and at the time,
107
00:05:10,143 --> 00:05:12,644
He was taking care
of his terminally ill wife.
108
00:05:12,712 --> 00:05:14,813
And his wife
that was so sick back then
109
00:05:14,881 --> 00:05:17,382
Really did pass away
pretty soon after all this.
110
00:05:17,451 --> 00:05:19,884
Some people thought that maybe
emmaline and thomas norfleet
111
00:05:19,953 --> 00:05:21,653
Might have been having
an affair.
112
00:05:21,722 --> 00:05:24,956
If so, could that have played
a part in all this?
113
00:05:24,958 --> 00:05:27,525
- And he's passed away.
- He passed away two years ago.
114
00:05:27,594 --> 00:05:30,094
Okay. At some point,
the investigation
115
00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:31,863
Also kind of went down
the road of--
116
00:05:31,932 --> 00:05:33,464
How about in the family?
117
00:05:33,466 --> 00:05:35,399
Let's do the one
that's passed away first.
118
00:05:35,401 --> 00:05:37,335
That is dennis.
119
00:05:37,404 --> 00:05:39,938
Dennis is her grandson.
120
00:05:40,006 --> 00:05:42,140
Isn't he the one that she let
stay at his house, too?
121
00:05:42,208 --> 00:05:44,576
When he had run out
of every other resource,
122
00:05:44,644 --> 00:05:48,346
He would go there for a hot meal
and someplace to sleep.
123
00:05:48,348 --> 00:05:50,214
Siegler: So we know he has
priors for drugs, right?
124
00:05:50,284 --> 00:05:51,683
- Yeah.
- Correct.
125
00:05:51,752 --> 00:05:53,918
Siegler: Does he have any kind
of violent priors?
126
00:05:53,987 --> 00:05:56,454
Rider: Dui, of course.
Vandalism.
127
00:05:56,456 --> 00:05:58,089
Assault with an automobile.
128
00:05:58,091 --> 00:05:59,858
There's ag burglary.
129
00:05:59,926 --> 00:06:02,026
So ag burglary
is what we're talking about.
130
00:06:02,095 --> 00:06:04,963
Rider: One witness said dennis
raised his hand to granny.
131
00:06:05,031 --> 00:06:06,665
Siegler: Because she wouldn't
give him drug money?
132
00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:08,667
- Yes. Right.
- That's a good one.
133
00:06:08,735 --> 00:06:10,334
He's the only one on the board
134
00:06:10,404 --> 00:06:12,236
That actually did something
like that directly to her.
135
00:06:12,238 --> 00:06:15,140
I wish
we could ask him about that.
136
00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:16,975
All right. So next up--
137
00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:20,411
Darren is related to emmaline
because he is her...
138
00:06:20,413 --> 00:06:22,147
- Grandson.
- Rider: Grandson.
139
00:06:22,215 --> 00:06:26,284
How much was darren ethridge
looked at back then?
140
00:06:26,353 --> 00:06:27,752
Hughes: I don't think
he really was.
141
00:06:27,821 --> 00:06:30,122
- Being a juvenile at that time.
- Siegler: He was 16.
142
00:06:30,190 --> 00:06:32,423
Schroeder: Yeah, he was
kind of like a wild child,
143
00:06:32,493 --> 00:06:34,058
Kind of running the streets
and that.
144
00:06:34,127 --> 00:06:35,827
Grandma gets murdered and then
they just got out of here.
145
00:06:35,896 --> 00:06:37,328
Yep.
146
00:06:37,397 --> 00:06:39,731
Siegler: Darren ethridge
was emmeline's grandson
147
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,534
And our suspect,
dennis kimsey's, cousin.
148
00:06:42,602 --> 00:06:45,136
He was only 16 years old
at the time,
149
00:06:45,205 --> 00:06:48,940
But his parents appeared
to have moved him away to texas
150
00:06:49,009 --> 00:06:50,775
Really quickly
after this happened.
151
00:06:50,844 --> 00:06:52,143
What's our
million-dollar question?
152
00:06:52,212 --> 00:06:54,346
Why leave to texas so soon?
153
00:06:54,414 --> 00:06:57,916
And in the years since, he's
been accused of several crimes.
154
00:06:57,984 --> 00:07:01,386
Stalking. Stalking. Stalking.
Stalking. Stalking. Five times.
155
00:07:01,454 --> 00:07:03,621
So in 2000,
he's arrested in texas.
156
00:07:03,690 --> 00:07:05,256
He picks up a stripper.
157
00:07:05,258 --> 00:07:07,759
Then they decide to go off
on their own to a park,
158
00:07:07,827 --> 00:07:10,028
And then things go bad, right?
159
00:07:10,096 --> 00:07:13,497
Darren was accused of stalking
when he was 21.
160
00:07:13,499 --> 00:07:16,301
And at 26, he was involved
in an incident
161
00:07:16,369 --> 00:07:18,537
Where he was allegedly
raping a woman,
162
00:07:18,539 --> 00:07:21,906
Was interrupted by police,
and assaulted the officer
163
00:07:21,975 --> 00:07:23,842
With his car
as he tried to flee.
164
00:07:23,910 --> 00:07:25,710
The question is, how early
165
00:07:25,778 --> 00:07:28,813
Did darren's criminal activities
really begin?
166
00:07:28,882 --> 00:07:31,315
Did they have any issues
between them that we know of?
167
00:07:31,385 --> 00:07:33,285
- Granny and darren?
- I don't think so.
168
00:07:33,353 --> 00:07:35,754
I can see him being mad
at granny,
169
00:07:35,822 --> 00:07:37,756
But that kind of mad
170
00:07:37,824 --> 00:07:42,494
That a 16-year-old kid could do
that to his own blood--grandma.
171
00:07:42,562 --> 00:07:44,796
- Oh, yeah.
- And if you're that messed up,
172
00:07:44,865 --> 00:07:46,764
It's not a one-time thing.
173
00:07:46,833 --> 00:07:49,201
So we got to be looking
for a pattern here.
174
00:07:49,269 --> 00:07:53,504
There's some good pieces
under each of the suspects,
175
00:07:53,506 --> 00:07:56,540
But not a whole lot
under any one of the suspects.
176
00:07:56,542 --> 00:07:59,010
What I'm encouraged about is
that there were so many people
177
00:07:59,012 --> 00:08:02,614
That were never interviewed hard
about anything back then.
178
00:08:02,682 --> 00:08:04,483
I mean, we might find out
something huge
179
00:08:04,551 --> 00:08:06,151
And really,
really get somewhere.
180
00:08:15,962 --> 00:08:18,997
You got tim kimsey coming
in today. Emmaline's grandson?
181
00:08:19,065 --> 00:08:21,533
- Correct.
- He knows we're going to talk
182
00:08:21,601 --> 00:08:23,234
About some of his
family members, too, right?
183
00:08:23,303 --> 00:08:24,101
- Yes.
- Okay.
184
00:08:24,171 --> 00:08:25,303
Tim, how are you?
185
00:08:25,372 --> 00:08:27,104
- Hey, buddy. Doing well.
- Good.
186
00:08:27,174 --> 00:08:29,040
I think you remember me.
Detective hughes.
187
00:08:29,108 --> 00:08:30,641
I do, yeah.
188
00:08:30,711 --> 00:08:32,811
Tim: I spent a lot of time
at my grandmother's.
189
00:08:32,879 --> 00:08:37,582
She just loved unconditionally
and was always there
190
00:08:37,651 --> 00:08:40,118
For a pat on the back
if you did well
191
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,586
And some harsh advice
192
00:08:41,654 --> 00:08:43,221
If you weren't doing as good
as you should have been.
193
00:08:43,290 --> 00:08:48,626
She was always kind and amazing,
and everybody loved granny.
194
00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:50,461
What was she like?
195
00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:54,165
Amazing lady. She, uh...
196
00:09:00,406 --> 00:09:02,741
You just have
to bear with me here a second.
197
00:09:03,977 --> 00:09:06,510
Um...
198
00:09:06,580 --> 00:09:10,181
Very forgiving person.
Very loving individual.
199
00:09:10,250 --> 00:09:12,249
She loved the lord.
200
00:09:13,253 --> 00:09:16,688
And it was her faith that
made her as strong as she was.
201
00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:18,323
She taught us how to pray.
202
00:09:18,391 --> 00:09:20,524
She come in there
and make funny prayers even.
203
00:09:20,526 --> 00:09:21,892
Very good sense of humor.
204
00:09:21,894 --> 00:09:23,495
You think
she's part of the reason
205
00:09:23,563 --> 00:09:24,696
Why you're a preacher today?
206
00:09:24,764 --> 00:09:28,032
She is unquestionably the reason
207
00:09:28,101 --> 00:09:29,868
Why I'm a preacher today.
208
00:09:29,936 --> 00:09:33,672
I get a--
get a lot of values...
209
00:09:36,042 --> 00:09:39,210
From my granny, and, uh...
210
00:09:43,717 --> 00:09:45,583
She, uh...
211
00:09:45,652 --> 00:09:47,752
She taught me how to love.
212
00:09:53,393 --> 00:09:56,160
She was my best friend.
213
00:09:56,229 --> 00:09:58,096
When granny got killed,
214
00:09:58,164 --> 00:10:02,100
I had emotions to run through me
like I've never had in my life.
215
00:10:02,168 --> 00:10:05,369
I was very angry
as well as hurt.
216
00:10:05,438 --> 00:10:07,639
Could you see from talking
to your brother dennis
217
00:10:07,707 --> 00:10:09,341
That he was just as angry
as you?
218
00:10:09,409 --> 00:10:11,009
Or did he do or act in a way
219
00:10:11,077 --> 00:10:13,211
That made you
be suspicious of him?
220
00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:14,979
Tim: It made me suspicious.
221
00:10:15,048 --> 00:10:18,449
He just didn't react the way
that I felt like that he should.
222
00:10:18,451 --> 00:10:21,219
Help us understand.
If your brother is the person
223
00:10:21,287 --> 00:10:22,954
Who murdered your grandma, why?
224
00:10:23,023 --> 00:10:25,423
What would make him go
to that extreme?
225
00:10:25,491 --> 00:10:26,658
Drugs.
226
00:10:26,726 --> 00:10:30,328
You know,
my brother was a criminal.
227
00:10:30,397 --> 00:10:33,264
He did a lot
of bad things in his life.
228
00:10:33,266 --> 00:10:35,633
There's nothing he wouldn't do.
229
00:10:35,702 --> 00:10:37,635
Siegler:
And then there's darren.
230
00:10:37,704 --> 00:10:39,337
Tim: As far as I know,
231
00:10:39,406 --> 00:10:42,573
Darren and her
was not real, real close.
232
00:10:42,642 --> 00:10:45,143
I don't know darren
had anything to do with it.
233
00:10:45,211 --> 00:10:47,679
If it's darren--
we're just trying to consider
234
00:10:47,747 --> 00:10:53,151
All possibilities here--
what would get him so angry
235
00:10:53,219 --> 00:10:56,054
Or worked up to
sexually assault her that way?
236
00:10:56,122 --> 00:10:57,756
That's the part
that blows me away.
237
00:10:57,824 --> 00:10:59,590
- Right.
- I think that whoever it was
238
00:10:59,659 --> 00:11:01,392
Had to be high.
239
00:11:01,461 --> 00:11:03,727
- You would think, right?
- Yeah.
240
00:11:03,729 --> 00:11:05,729
I couldn't believe
that something like this
241
00:11:05,731 --> 00:11:08,866
Has happened to her
in the manner that it did.
242
00:11:08,935 --> 00:11:10,368
If it was found
that it was somebody
243
00:11:10,437 --> 00:11:14,706
That was in our family,
it would hurt.
244
00:11:14,774 --> 00:11:17,008
It would hurt bad to know
that it was somebody close.
245
00:11:17,076 --> 00:11:20,745
But no matter who it was,
246
00:11:20,814 --> 00:11:23,881
They need to be brought
to justice.
247
00:11:23,883 --> 00:11:25,850
My granny deserves that.
248
00:11:27,352 --> 00:11:38,262
Siegler: You know,
we work murders all the time.
249
00:11:38,264 --> 00:11:40,699
To me, this case
is still different
250
00:11:40,767 --> 00:11:42,934
Because they were able
to sexually assault
251
00:11:43,002 --> 00:11:44,535
An 80-year-old woman.
252
00:11:44,537 --> 00:11:46,938
I'm building this defendant,
whoever it is,
253
00:11:47,006 --> 00:11:49,074
Up to be pretty much a monster.
254
00:11:49,142 --> 00:11:50,608
And I don't like
to use that word a lot,
255
00:11:50,677 --> 00:11:53,377
But whoever did this
is really, really sick.
256
00:11:53,446 --> 00:11:56,314
We have three known
and one unknown suspect
257
00:11:56,382 --> 00:11:59,917
In the horrible murder and rape
of emmaline croft.
258
00:11:59,919 --> 00:12:02,253
Danny, this is ron schroeder.
259
00:12:02,322 --> 00:12:04,188
- Mr. Schroeder.
- And this is tonya.
260
00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:05,789
- Hi.
- Hi, tanya. How are you?
261
00:12:05,791 --> 00:12:08,126
We want to talk
to her friends and her family
262
00:12:08,194 --> 00:12:10,394
To ask them
about her two grandsons
263
00:12:10,463 --> 00:12:12,596
And her neighbor,
thomas norfleet.
264
00:12:12,666 --> 00:12:14,232
Which, if any of them,
265
00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:16,768
Is sick enough
to kill her this horrible way?
266
00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:18,770
Could you tell much
about emmaline's relationship
267
00:12:18,838 --> 00:12:20,404
With her grandkids?
268
00:12:20,473 --> 00:12:23,174
Well, one grandson
in particular, dennis kimsey.
269
00:12:23,243 --> 00:12:26,344
One summer, he parked
his little camper right there.
270
00:12:26,412 --> 00:12:29,113
He adored his grandmother,
and she adored him.
271
00:12:29,181 --> 00:12:30,749
So she was really close
with him.
272
00:12:30,817 --> 00:12:32,851
He was there
more than any of them.
273
00:12:32,853 --> 00:12:35,086
Was there any talk
that you heard
274
00:12:35,155 --> 00:12:37,621
Of who was responsible
for the murder?
275
00:12:37,623 --> 00:12:40,692
There was speculation
and rumor
276
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,795
That my first cousin, denny,
could be involved.
277
00:12:44,865 --> 00:12:46,897
Denny battled
with a lot of demons.
278
00:12:46,967 --> 00:12:49,133
He was an addict.
279
00:12:49,201 --> 00:12:51,335
Was involved in everything
280
00:12:51,404 --> 00:12:53,938
From burglaries
to selling drugs.
281
00:12:54,007 --> 00:12:56,106
Naturally, when this happened,
282
00:12:56,108 --> 00:12:59,643
Everybody brought
denny's name up.
283
00:13:00,313 --> 00:13:02,280
- So you're trena's daughter.
- We are both trena's daughters.
284
00:13:02,348 --> 00:13:04,783
- You're both trena's daughters.
- Yes. We're sisters.
285
00:13:04,851 --> 00:13:06,451
Hughes: I know there's
a sister somewhere in there.
286
00:13:06,453 --> 00:13:08,552
Denny was always in trouble.
287
00:13:08,622 --> 00:13:11,589
Like, he had put explosives
in the sheriff's mailbox.
288
00:13:11,658 --> 00:13:15,560
And one time when he got
pulled over by the cops,
289
00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:17,295
He tried to run over 'em.
290
00:13:17,363 --> 00:13:20,030
Like, literally tried
to run 'em down.
291
00:13:20,032 --> 00:13:23,000
On the other hand,
I guess there's a good side
292
00:13:23,069 --> 00:13:27,705
Of denny somewhere, which is
towards his grandmother.
293
00:13:27,773 --> 00:13:31,409
Granny was probably
denny's closest friend.
294
00:13:31,477 --> 00:13:36,214
When denny was in trouble
or had issues or whatever,
295
00:13:36,282 --> 00:13:38,015
Granny was always the one
296
00:13:38,084 --> 00:13:41,385
That would help him
in any way she could.
297
00:13:41,454 --> 00:13:44,021
Although denny
was probably capable
298
00:13:44,090 --> 00:13:46,557
Of doing that to someone else,
299
00:13:46,626 --> 00:13:50,962
I just couldn't fathom him
doing that to his grandmother,
300
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:54,031
Especially as much
as he loved granny.
301
00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:56,534
Walk in there, get mad
and accidentally kill her--
302
00:13:56,603 --> 00:13:59,370
Hands down,
I could totally see that.
303
00:13:59,372 --> 00:14:02,606
But to carry
through the sexual stuff,
304
00:14:02,675 --> 00:14:04,375
I find it very hard to believe.
305
00:14:04,377 --> 00:14:05,310
Okay.
306
00:14:18,891 --> 00:14:20,925
He was my brother, you know,
and I loved him,
307
00:14:20,993 --> 00:14:22,894
Despite his faults.
308
00:14:22,962 --> 00:14:24,962
But you had a hard talk
with him about what happened?
309
00:14:25,031 --> 00:14:28,366
Yeah, I talked to him
several times after that.
310
00:14:28,368 --> 00:14:29,867
You know, he was like me.
311
00:14:29,935 --> 00:14:32,203
He was just pulling stuff
out of the sky.
312
00:14:32,271 --> 00:14:33,304
"what if this." "what if that."
313
00:14:33,373 --> 00:14:35,439
That's important for us to know.
314
00:14:35,441 --> 00:14:38,476
Because if danny's trying to
figure it out just like you are,
315
00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:40,611
- We need to hear that.
- Okay.
316
00:14:40,613 --> 00:14:42,913
Would she have opened the door
for any of denny's friends
317
00:14:42,915 --> 00:14:45,449
Coming looking for denny?
Drug friends?
318
00:14:45,518 --> 00:14:47,885
You know, granny was...
319
00:14:47,954 --> 00:14:49,520
Probably a trusting soul.
320
00:14:49,589 --> 00:14:51,488
You know what I mean?
321
00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:54,358
Siegler: Everybody agrees
that dennis was violent
322
00:14:54,427 --> 00:14:57,961
And capable of killing someone,
maybe even his own grandmother.
323
00:14:57,963 --> 00:14:59,597
But he wouldn't have been able
324
00:14:59,665 --> 00:15:02,099
To commit
the sexual act part of this.
325
00:15:02,168 --> 00:15:03,367
And he was out there
trying to figure out
326
00:15:03,436 --> 00:15:05,036
Who committed this crime, too.
327
00:15:05,104 --> 00:15:07,571
You spoke about
how denny's history was.
328
00:15:07,573 --> 00:15:09,173
What about darren?
329
00:15:09,242 --> 00:15:11,676
What kind of stuff
have you heard about darren?
330
00:15:16,849 --> 00:15:18,316
Did anybody
in your family ever think
331
00:15:18,384 --> 00:15:21,019
About darren being involved?
332
00:15:21,021 --> 00:15:22,186
Mm-mmm.
333
00:15:22,254 --> 00:15:24,021
Darren couldn't handle--handle--
334
00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:25,789
He couldn't handle granny,
number one.
335
00:15:25,791 --> 00:15:26,891
Because?
336
00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:27,959
'cause he's not strong enough.
337
00:15:28,027 --> 00:15:29,927
She's strong as an ox.
338
00:15:29,995 --> 00:15:32,196
She'd have beat him half
to death if he'd tried that.
339
00:15:42,141 --> 00:15:43,674
Rider: According
to these witnesses,
340
00:15:43,743 --> 00:15:45,543
We should
rule out darren as well.
341
00:15:45,611 --> 00:15:47,811
He was too young and too small.
342
00:15:47,813 --> 00:15:50,248
Not to mention, emmaline
was his grandmother, too.
343
00:15:50,316 --> 00:15:51,950
Did granny ever say anything
344
00:15:52,018 --> 00:15:54,785
About having any kind
of romantic interest
345
00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:56,620
Or any guy on the street
flirting with her
346
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:58,256
Or anything like that?
347
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,107
So we're talking
about norfleet, right?
348
00:16:16,175 --> 00:16:19,543
If emmaline thought
that thomas norfleet was mean,
349
00:16:19,612 --> 00:16:22,613
It's hard to imagine that they
were romantically involved.
350
00:16:22,681 --> 00:16:25,416
Unless she was keeping
some big secret.
351
00:16:25,485 --> 00:16:28,752
That someone would do that
at someone like granny ethridge,
352
00:16:28,822 --> 00:16:33,691
It just goes to prove
that evil's out there.
353
00:16:45,270 --> 00:16:48,005
Siegler:
Dr. Pinneri's coming in today.
354
00:16:48,073 --> 00:16:50,141
If she can tell us the order
in which the injuries occurred,
355
00:16:50,209 --> 00:16:51,875
I think that will give us
a lot of insight
356
00:16:51,877 --> 00:16:54,612
Into how that played out
at the crime scene.
357
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,981
- There's so many of them.
- Yeah.
358
00:16:57,049 --> 00:16:58,949
After talking to everybody
we have so far,
359
00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,218
We still have no clear motive
in emmaline's murder.
360
00:17:01,287 --> 00:17:02,720
Guys, this is dr. Pinneri.
361
00:17:02,788 --> 00:17:04,621
- Doug sparks.
- Nice to meet you.
362
00:17:04,691 --> 00:17:07,125
Siegler: Hopefully,
if we get dr. Pinneri to tell us
363
00:17:07,127 --> 00:17:09,560
More about the weapons used,
the injuries,
364
00:17:09,628 --> 00:17:11,595
More details
about the sexual assault,
365
00:17:11,664 --> 00:17:13,064
We can get better insight
366
00:17:13,132 --> 00:17:14,965
Into knowing
where we need to focus next.
367
00:17:15,034 --> 00:17:16,968
Pinneri: So, we have
an 80-year-old female.
368
00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:18,402
She's found dead on a couch.
369
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:20,705
There's a lot of blood
around her neck
370
00:17:20,773 --> 00:17:23,307
And on the pillow
underneath her head.
371
00:17:23,376 --> 00:17:26,043
There is a knife
on the floor in a hallway.
372
00:17:26,111 --> 00:17:28,146
There's a bent fork
right by her foot.
373
00:17:28,214 --> 00:17:29,914
There's a big area of contusion
374
00:17:29,982 --> 00:17:33,717
That encompasses the cheek
and nose and then also the ear.
375
00:17:33,719 --> 00:17:35,653
And there is a lot
of bruising there.
376
00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:39,423
So these did happen
before the knife injuries.
377
00:17:39,492 --> 00:17:42,393
She does have evidence
of defending herself.
378
00:17:42,395 --> 00:17:44,261
Cut marks
on the backs of her hands
379
00:17:44,263 --> 00:17:45,729
And the back of her forearm.
380
00:17:45,731 --> 00:17:46,930
Those are defensive injuries
381
00:17:46,932 --> 00:17:49,266
As you're trying
to fight off somebody.
382
00:17:49,335 --> 00:17:51,201
So she's seeing--
383
00:17:51,271 --> 00:17:54,805
Looking at the person
as she's being attacked.
384
00:17:54,807 --> 00:17:58,542
What was found in the neck area
is that the carotid arteries,
385
00:17:58,544 --> 00:18:00,010
Which are the main blood vessels
386
00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:02,280
That take blood from the heart
up to the brain,
387
00:18:02,348 --> 00:18:04,781
Were completely cut
on both sides.
388
00:18:04,783 --> 00:18:06,818
The one on the right
actually goes deep enough,
389
00:18:06,886 --> 00:18:09,219
And it cuts all the way
to the vertebrae.
390
00:18:09,221 --> 00:18:11,722
This tells you how forceful
these stab wounds were.
391
00:18:11,791 --> 00:18:13,724
This is brutal.
392
00:18:13,793 --> 00:18:16,293
Did the injuries look sloppy,
like somebody's first time,
393
00:18:16,362 --> 00:18:17,995
And they're just
going crazy with a knife?
394
00:18:18,064 --> 00:18:20,030
They're very well placed.
395
00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:22,700
If you want to kill somebody,
that's how you do it.
396
00:18:22,768 --> 00:18:25,837
Then she does have these groups
of four puncture marks
397
00:18:25,905 --> 00:18:29,106
On the face, what look
like they could be fork wounds.
398
00:18:29,175 --> 00:18:34,612
Some of the injuries look dry,
almost postmortem.
399
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,981
This is
a very horrific crime scene.
400
00:18:37,983 --> 00:18:39,716
A whole lot of injuries.
401
00:18:39,786 --> 00:18:42,587
That was overkill, basically,
is what people would say.
402
00:18:42,655 --> 00:18:44,722
Any one of those injuries
to the neck
403
00:18:44,790 --> 00:18:48,092
Would have been enough to have
killed this elderly female.
404
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,629
The fork injuries.
All of that is way excessive.
405
00:18:51,697 --> 00:18:55,900
Then the other part
of this is sexual assault,
406
00:18:55,968 --> 00:18:57,902
Both vaginal and anal.
407
00:18:57,970 --> 00:19:00,504
The way that the vaginal trauma
is described
408
00:19:00,573 --> 00:19:03,507
As small linear abrasions
around the vaginal orifice.
409
00:19:03,576 --> 00:19:05,342
So it had to be something large.
410
00:19:05,411 --> 00:19:07,578
Are you saying a thing?
Not a penis.
411
00:19:07,647 --> 00:19:09,780
It could be a penis,
just not a finger
412
00:19:09,782 --> 00:19:11,048
Or not the end of the knife.
413
00:19:11,117 --> 00:19:13,551
Is there anything
that helps you say
414
00:19:13,619 --> 00:19:16,620
If the sexual assault
happened last?
415
00:19:16,622 --> 00:19:22,326
I don't see her having
the injuries and be standing up.
416
00:19:22,394 --> 00:19:25,629
I could definitely see
that that could have happened
417
00:19:25,631 --> 00:19:28,466
After the other injuries.
418
00:19:28,534 --> 00:19:33,237
What would be your explanation
for how come there's no semen?
419
00:19:33,239 --> 00:19:34,705
Pinneri:
Well, not everybody ejaculates.
420
00:19:34,774 --> 00:19:39,643
Maybe they couldn't.
But if it was an object,
421
00:19:39,712 --> 00:19:42,380
Then that would certainly
explain the lack of semen.
422
00:19:42,448 --> 00:19:47,051
Siegler: Emmaline wounds tell us
that she was struck in the head
423
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,987
And then stabbed and then
she was sexually assaulted
424
00:19:50,055 --> 00:19:51,956
Before she was probed
with that fork.
425
00:19:52,024 --> 00:19:55,259
If the person who did this
is miss emmaline's neighbor
426
00:19:55,328 --> 00:19:56,961
Or an unknown suspect,
then that's somebody
427
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:59,463
Who's really sick
or really messed up on drugs.
428
00:19:59,532 --> 00:20:01,098
- Thank you so much.
- Yes. Thank you.
429
00:20:01,167 --> 00:20:02,400
All right, thank you.
430
00:20:02,468 --> 00:20:05,102
And if it's one
of her grandsons,
431
00:20:05,170 --> 00:20:06,971
That makes it even sicker.
432
00:20:09,575 --> 00:20:11,475
Siegler: The house
is still standing?
433
00:20:11,544 --> 00:20:14,312
Yes. Our main focus
is on that living room.
434
00:20:14,380 --> 00:20:17,347
And so I'm hoping
that that's still the same.
435
00:20:17,417 --> 00:20:19,450
It's important for us
to go to the crime scene
436
00:20:19,518 --> 00:20:22,886
To get a firsthand look
at how the crime took place.
437
00:20:22,888 --> 00:20:26,223
So, we're headed to her house
to recreate the crime scene.
438
00:20:26,292 --> 00:20:28,025
In the original scene,
439
00:20:28,093 --> 00:20:30,661
The couch
where miss croft was located
440
00:20:30,730 --> 00:20:32,730
Is gonna be right
about this area here.
441
00:20:32,798 --> 00:20:35,266
We know that the back leg
of the couch was broken.
442
00:20:35,334 --> 00:20:37,868
She's found
with one leg on the sofa,
443
00:20:37,870 --> 00:20:39,870
One leg kind of dangling off.
444
00:20:39,939 --> 00:20:42,406
And the gown that's on the floor
is still part of this gown,
445
00:20:42,474 --> 00:20:43,774
- Not a separate one.
- Correct.
446
00:20:43,843 --> 00:20:45,676
It's almost
like the jacket stayed on
447
00:20:45,745 --> 00:20:47,144
And then the gown
was just ripped off
448
00:20:47,212 --> 00:20:48,846
And they were thrown
onto the floor.
449
00:20:48,914 --> 00:20:50,447
- Siegler: No bra?
- No bra.
450
00:20:50,516 --> 00:20:52,816
- No bra.
- But her bra was found.
451
00:20:52,885 --> 00:20:55,119
It was on her clothes,
inside her...
452
00:20:55,187 --> 00:20:56,319
How about her panties?
453
00:20:56,321 --> 00:20:57,488
- No panties.
- No panties.
454
00:20:57,556 --> 00:20:59,123
Are the panties
anywhere in the room?
455
00:20:59,125 --> 00:21:00,591
- No.
- No.
456
00:21:00,660 --> 00:21:02,493
Siegler: There's seemingly
only one thing missing
457
00:21:02,561 --> 00:21:04,595
From emmaline's house--
her underwear.
458
00:21:04,664 --> 00:21:06,597
It's possible
that the killer took her panties
459
00:21:06,666 --> 00:21:08,432
Because they wanted
to take away the evidence.
460
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:10,033
But they left the knife behind.
461
00:21:10,103 --> 00:21:12,403
So we're all thinking
they took the panties
462
00:21:12,471 --> 00:21:14,071
To keep them as a trophy.
463
00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:15,906
Tanya gets to be emmaline.
464
00:21:15,975 --> 00:21:20,945
Woody, go play the intruder,
killer, rapist.
465
00:21:25,084 --> 00:21:26,917
- Who is it?
- [knocking]
466
00:21:26,919 --> 00:21:28,719
Oh, hi.
What are you doing here?
467
00:21:28,788 --> 00:21:30,654
I just come to talk to you.
I need some help.
468
00:21:30,723 --> 00:21:32,823
She's seen me.
She's recognized me.
469
00:21:32,892 --> 00:21:34,892
And she's comfortable
with letting me in.
470
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,628
We start talking,
but something sets me off.
471
00:21:37,696 --> 00:21:39,263
And so my first instinct
472
00:21:39,331 --> 00:21:41,732
Is just to punch her
right inside the face,
473
00:21:41,801 --> 00:21:43,801
And that's going to knock her
down onto the couch.
474
00:21:43,869 --> 00:21:45,369
So she's dazed. She's confused.
475
00:21:45,437 --> 00:21:47,838
And I just grab
whatever I can find.
476
00:21:47,907 --> 00:21:50,841
And I come back.
She's blocking me.
477
00:21:50,910 --> 00:21:53,877
And then we're fighting,
and I'm ripping this gown off.
478
00:21:53,879 --> 00:21:54,945
That is where it ends up, right?
479
00:21:55,014 --> 00:21:55,946
- Yeah.
- Okay.
480
00:21:56,015 --> 00:21:57,648
I'm trying to shield my face
481
00:21:57,716 --> 00:22:00,984
Because that's, like,
your vulnerable part.
482
00:22:01,053 --> 00:22:03,721
But I'm still exposing my neck.
I can't do both.
483
00:22:03,789 --> 00:22:06,089
He's coming in and going here.
484
00:22:06,158 --> 00:22:10,193
So the two fatal are going
to be on each side right here.
485
00:22:10,195 --> 00:22:14,932
So it's going to go in here
and then in here as well.
486
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,434
And the left one's the deep one
487
00:22:16,502 --> 00:22:18,468
That goes all the way
to the vertebrae.
488
00:22:18,538 --> 00:22:22,205
But the way she's laid with this
propped up and I'm on top,
489
00:22:22,207 --> 00:22:25,008
All that blood
is shooting on me.
490
00:22:25,077 --> 00:22:27,244
- And she's not getting away.
- Mm-mmm.
491
00:22:27,313 --> 00:22:31,348
I felt extremely vulnerable,
and I'm not 80 years old.
492
00:22:31,417 --> 00:22:34,451
But when someone's over you,
they have all the power.
493
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,921
And so knowing
that she was in defense mode
494
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:40,357
And trying
to fight off her attacker,
495
00:22:40,426 --> 00:22:43,994
It had to be completely horrible
for her.
496
00:22:43,996 --> 00:22:46,296
She's bleeding out.
She's most likely dead already.
497
00:22:46,365 --> 00:22:48,432
So being the sadistic person
that I am,
498
00:22:48,501 --> 00:22:51,202
I just grab a fork,
and I'm coming in,
499
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:52,636
And I'm poking in the face.
500
00:22:52,705 --> 00:22:54,338
Maybe that's not doing
what I need.
501
00:22:54,406 --> 00:22:56,106
And I start poking down here.
502
00:22:56,175 --> 00:22:58,442
'cause that's where the fork
injuries are? Even down here?
503
00:22:58,511 --> 00:23:01,211
Yeah, there's some
on the torso as well.
504
00:23:01,213 --> 00:23:03,347
And given the force
used by this,
505
00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:05,616
Because obviously you're
really jabbing it in there,
506
00:23:05,618 --> 00:23:06,750
It's going to bend that fork,
507
00:23:06,819 --> 00:23:08,518
And then
that's just tossed down.
508
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,821
Okay, so y'all think
the sexual assault happened
509
00:23:10,890 --> 00:23:13,490
- After she's dead?
- I would think so.
510
00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:16,293
Like I said, I think there would
still be a lot more destruction
511
00:23:16,362 --> 00:23:17,895
Around the place
if it happened during...
512
00:23:17,897 --> 00:23:20,030
Y'all want to think
he's raping a dead woman?
513
00:23:20,099 --> 00:23:20,998
That's even sicker.
514
00:23:21,066 --> 00:23:22,632
I'm covered in blood now,
515
00:23:22,702 --> 00:23:24,601
So before I leave,
I've got to clean up.
516
00:23:24,670 --> 00:23:27,571
So I go back
towards the bathroom,
517
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,374
Drops the knife, whatever else,
washes his hands.
518
00:23:30,442 --> 00:23:33,543
We think he's just straight out,
opening the door,
519
00:23:33,545 --> 00:23:35,345
Maybe touching the wall
or something.
520
00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:37,148
Where's blood inside the house?
Anywhere?
521
00:23:37,216 --> 00:23:39,449
A little on the back, but then
right here in this doorframe.
522
00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:40,784
And then he grabbed the handle,
523
00:23:40,853 --> 00:23:43,453
And there's blood
around the handle here.
524
00:23:43,455 --> 00:23:45,155
It's almost
like you want to think
525
00:23:45,157 --> 00:23:47,791
That whoever did this is
some unknown monster out there.
526
00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:49,793
With all the people
on the board
527
00:23:49,862 --> 00:23:51,628
That these people
out here all know,
528
00:23:51,697 --> 00:23:53,831
It's just hard to picture
any one of them
529
00:23:53,899 --> 00:23:56,433
Being able to do that
to sweet little emmaline.
530
00:23:56,502 --> 00:23:59,370
I'm trying to picture
a 16-year-old able
531
00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:04,207
To do that that young to his
own grandma after she's dead.
532
00:24:04,277 --> 00:24:06,210
- That's a lot.
- It is a lot.
533
00:24:06,278 --> 00:24:09,112
Or trying to picture denny,
who loved his grandma,
534
00:24:09,181 --> 00:24:11,014
Who worshipped
the ground he walked on
535
00:24:11,083 --> 00:24:13,050
Being able to do that.
536
00:24:13,118 --> 00:24:14,785
You almost want it to be
an unknown person.
537
00:24:14,853 --> 00:24:16,920
- Yeah.
- It makes it more...
538
00:24:16,989 --> 00:24:18,622
- Believable.
- Believable.
539
00:24:20,325 --> 00:24:34,972
Rider: So, I'm exciting
to talk to janice,
540
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,841
Because now
that he's deceased,
541
00:24:37,910 --> 00:24:40,344
Hopefully as a former spouse,
542
00:24:40,412 --> 00:24:41,945
She'll be able to give us
some more insight
543
00:24:42,014 --> 00:24:44,147
Into him as a person,
544
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:46,317
If he's ever
mentioned this to her.
545
00:24:46,385 --> 00:24:48,352
Our suspect, thomas norfleet,
546
00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:50,120
Passed away
a couple of years ago,
547
00:24:50,122 --> 00:24:53,156
And his wife at the time
died of natural causes
548
00:24:53,225 --> 00:24:57,461
Shortly after emmaline's murder,
but he did remarry in 1992.
549
00:24:57,529 --> 00:25:01,364
Sparks: Janice, do you mind
talking with us out here?
550
00:25:01,434 --> 00:25:03,867
Rider: That ex-wife could be
the best witness we have
551
00:25:03,936 --> 00:25:06,237
Into norfleet's character,
his demeanor,
552
00:25:06,305 --> 00:25:08,272
And if he said anything
incriminating.
553
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:11,474
Yeah, I have always hated it
554
00:25:11,476 --> 00:25:15,913
That miss croft's murder
was never solved.
555
00:25:15,981 --> 00:25:19,716
And everybody
had their own opinion.
556
00:25:19,785 --> 00:25:23,386
Rider: Had tom ever been violent
toward you?
557
00:25:23,388 --> 00:25:25,822
One time...
558
00:25:25,891 --> 00:25:28,458
I was getting ready for work,
559
00:25:28,527 --> 00:25:30,661
And he was fussing
about something.
560
00:25:30,729 --> 00:25:34,064
I was saying, "I don't know
what you're mad about,"
561
00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:36,900
And he slapped me.
562
00:25:36,969 --> 00:25:40,738
Do you think tom would be
capable of hurting miss croft?
563
00:25:40,806 --> 00:25:44,574
I don't think so.
I think he respected miss croft,
564
00:25:44,644 --> 00:25:49,980
And I really don't think
that he would have hurt her.
565
00:25:50,049 --> 00:25:54,417
I really don't think
he was capable of murder,
566
00:25:54,487 --> 00:25:56,086
Especially not her.
567
00:25:56,088 --> 00:25:58,655
Yeah, we talked about it
several times,
568
00:25:58,724 --> 00:26:02,425
And he said
that the grandson came over
569
00:26:02,427 --> 00:26:05,262
And asked him
to pull up his shirt.
570
00:26:05,331 --> 00:26:10,667
He wanted to see
if he had any marks
571
00:26:10,736 --> 00:26:12,869
Where she had fought back.
572
00:26:12,871 --> 00:26:15,105
Tom said, "I pulled my shirt up
573
00:26:15,174 --> 00:26:18,842
And I showed him I didn't have
any scratch marks."
574
00:26:18,911 --> 00:26:23,714
He said, "now pull your shirt up
and show me your back."
575
00:26:23,782 --> 00:26:28,919
And he said,
"the boy didn't have any marks."
576
00:26:28,987 --> 00:26:30,420
Rider: Janice confirms
577
00:26:30,422 --> 00:26:32,489
Thomas norfleet
was not a nice man.
578
00:26:32,558 --> 00:26:34,525
But according to her,
after the murder,
579
00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:36,459
Dennis confronted thomas
about it,
580
00:26:36,461 --> 00:26:38,696
But neither of them
had scratches or marks.
581
00:26:38,764 --> 00:26:40,964
Well, thank you again
for your time, ma'am.
582
00:26:41,033 --> 00:26:43,333
While neither of them
are alive to confirm it,
583
00:26:43,402 --> 00:26:45,202
That helps to clear
thomas and dennis.
584
00:26:53,178 --> 00:26:54,945
Hughes: Hopefully
she's willing to talk.
585
00:26:55,014 --> 00:26:58,916
Well, it would be helpful
for the best victim
586
00:26:58,984 --> 00:27:02,886
In darren's life back then
to tell us how bad was it?
587
00:27:02,955 --> 00:27:04,888
- You know what I mean?
- Definitely.
588
00:27:04,957 --> 00:27:07,925
Siegler: Neither thomas norfleet
or dennis kimsey
589
00:27:07,993 --> 00:27:10,060
Have ever been accused
of sexual crimes,
590
00:27:10,062 --> 00:27:11,628
But darren ethridge was.
591
00:27:11,696 --> 00:27:14,164
Even though he was never tried
for sexual assault,
592
00:27:14,233 --> 00:27:17,367
We know all about
his alleged rape in texas,
593
00:27:17,436 --> 00:27:20,704
Where he fled and assaulted
a police officer with his car.
594
00:27:20,772 --> 00:27:22,205
- Oh, I bet that's her.
- Oh, I'll guarantee it.
595
00:27:22,274 --> 00:27:23,774
She's going to want some ac.
596
00:27:23,842 --> 00:27:26,843
Hey, I'm detective hughes
with alcoa. How you doing?
597
00:27:26,912 --> 00:27:28,679
Siegler: We can't confirm
the conviction,
598
00:27:28,747 --> 00:27:30,647
But darren was also accused
599
00:27:30,716 --> 00:27:33,150
Of stalking a woman
here in tennessee,
600
00:27:33,218 --> 00:27:35,352
And it's important
that we talk to her.
601
00:27:35,420 --> 00:27:37,687
We're looking into
the emmaline croft homicide,
602
00:27:37,757 --> 00:27:39,256
So we're trying
to get a better feel
603
00:27:39,324 --> 00:27:40,857
For what was going on
with darren.
604
00:27:40,926 --> 00:27:43,727
Siegler: Darren ethridge.
Your old boyfriend.
605
00:27:43,795 --> 00:27:46,029
Woman: He ain't my boyfriend.
Oh, no, ma'am.
606
00:27:46,098 --> 00:27:47,797
Siegler: Old boyfriend.
607
00:27:47,867 --> 00:27:49,166
- Woman: No.
- He wasn't your boyfriend?
608
00:27:49,234 --> 00:27:51,601
You need to check
more county records.
609
00:27:51,670 --> 00:27:53,703
- He wasn't your boyfriend?
- No.
610
00:27:53,705 --> 00:27:55,139
Okay, so starting--
how'd you meet him?
611
00:28:01,179 --> 00:28:03,180
Was he actually making
statements and doing things?
612
00:28:03,248 --> 00:28:04,848
What was he saying?
613
00:28:19,798 --> 00:28:22,532
When you run the report,
614
00:28:22,534 --> 00:28:25,202
You come back
with these stalking incidents
615
00:28:25,270 --> 00:28:27,805
That happened a long time ago,
back in 1995,
616
00:28:27,807 --> 00:28:29,840
Five years after our murder.
617
00:28:29,908 --> 00:28:32,175
We think that we're
going to go talk to the girl
618
00:28:32,177 --> 00:28:33,777
That was a victim
of a stalking,
619
00:28:33,846 --> 00:28:36,146
A girlfriend
from way back in the day.
620
00:28:36,215 --> 00:28:38,115
And then she tells us
that they never dated.
621
00:28:38,183 --> 00:28:40,050
She met him at work
622
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:41,752
And everything
went crazy right after that.
623
00:28:44,757 --> 00:28:46,090
He broke into your apartment?
624
00:28:53,966 --> 00:28:56,500
He took your panties.
625
00:28:59,905 --> 00:29:01,605
And our panties were missing.
626
00:29:01,673 --> 00:29:03,773
He burglarized her apartment.
627
00:29:03,775 --> 00:29:05,609
He stole her panties.
628
00:29:08,714 --> 00:29:12,015
And then you start comparing
this beautiful, credible witness
629
00:29:12,084 --> 00:29:14,217
To the murder case
that we're looking at.
630
00:29:14,286 --> 00:29:16,453
And I don't know.
631
00:29:16,521 --> 00:29:18,388
Miss emmaline's panties
have never been found.
632
00:29:24,129 --> 00:29:27,030
Tonya, she says,
"he scared the hell out of me.
633
00:29:27,098 --> 00:29:28,798
I'm scared to death of him
today."
634
00:29:28,868 --> 00:29:31,434
And she said
nobody would listen.
635
00:29:31,503 --> 00:29:33,636
Can't have a more
believable witness.
636
00:29:33,638 --> 00:29:38,475
And she says he's scary crazy.
What you thinking?
637
00:29:38,543 --> 00:29:42,212
Just about the underwear
and then hers being missing.
638
00:29:42,281 --> 00:29:44,114
And they're never recovered.
I never understood it.
639
00:29:44,183 --> 00:29:46,250
- Where's her underwear?
- Right.
640
00:29:58,730 --> 00:30:00,397
Okay, so your hoping
641
00:30:00,598 --> 00:30:02,599
When darren walks
into his parole visit,
642
00:30:02,668 --> 00:30:05,368
He has to cooperate somewhat.
643
00:30:05,437 --> 00:30:07,470
- That's a condition of parole.
- Correct.
644
00:30:07,539 --> 00:30:10,040
Siegler: Darren ethridge was
never really looked that hard
645
00:30:10,108 --> 00:30:12,910
As a suspect for his
grandmother's murder back then,
646
00:30:12,978 --> 00:30:15,478
So he was never really
interviewed at all.
647
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,082
You have to wonder when did
his criminal activities begin.
648
00:30:19,151 --> 00:30:21,218
We do know
that his mother and dad
649
00:30:21,286 --> 00:30:24,454
Moved him to texas
sometime after the murder.
650
00:30:24,523 --> 00:30:25,823
- Hello.
- How are you?
651
00:30:25,891 --> 00:30:29,226
I'm a parole officer.
I was just notified.
652
00:30:29,294 --> 00:30:31,328
Woody hughes. How are you?
653
00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:34,531
Darren is currently on parole
for driving while intoxicated.
654
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:37,634
So our hope today is
to surprise interview him
655
00:30:37,636 --> 00:30:40,437
When he comes in
for his regular parole visit.
656
00:30:40,505 --> 00:30:43,040
We're doing a deep dive into
the murder of your grandmother.
657
00:30:43,108 --> 00:30:45,475
So, would you care
to talk to us about that?
658
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:48,178
How old were you?
659
00:30:50,816 --> 00:30:53,517
Siegler: Often did you talk
to our grandma back then?
660
00:30:55,887 --> 00:30:59,256
The day of the murder
or the time frame or whatever,
661
00:30:59,324 --> 00:31:01,491
Where were you at?
If you can remember.
662
00:31:03,261 --> 00:31:05,195
When you heard the news,
what did you do then?
663
00:31:08,166 --> 00:31:11,868
Does your dad think
that some unknown person did it
664
00:31:11,936 --> 00:31:13,236
Who just got away with it?
665
00:31:13,305 --> 00:31:15,238
'cause the file says
that maybe some people
666
00:31:15,307 --> 00:31:17,107
Thought denny was involved.
667
00:31:17,175 --> 00:31:18,408
What does your dad think?
668
00:31:35,727 --> 00:31:37,560
You talked about you've
been in trouble with the law.
669
00:31:37,629 --> 00:31:40,030
The file says
something about you were
670
00:31:40,098 --> 00:31:42,032
In a little trouble
back in tennessee,
671
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:43,767
And that's kind of why
y'all moved to texas.
672
00:31:52,745 --> 00:31:55,946
Is that a girlfriend?
673
00:31:56,014 --> 00:31:58,949
And what, she broke up with you
or you broke up with her?
674
00:32:00,986 --> 00:32:02,652
She dumped you?
675
00:32:02,721 --> 00:32:04,321
Because, you know,
we can pull up the report
676
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:06,256
Where we see the back-and-forth
kind of juvenile
677
00:32:06,325 --> 00:32:08,658
Throwing eggs at each other
bull--, right?
678
00:32:08,727 --> 00:32:10,627
Is that all it was?
679
00:32:12,031 --> 00:32:14,765
Serious enough for your dad
to move you to texas over that?
680
00:32:22,474 --> 00:32:24,408
What's the ugliest it got?
681
00:32:26,045 --> 00:32:27,811
Hughes: Did you get arrested
for that?
682
00:32:27,879 --> 00:32:29,079
Siegler: She said something
683
00:32:29,147 --> 00:32:31,915
About her panties
in your apartment.
684
00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:45,462
What happened with the case
you went to tdc on
685
00:32:45,530 --> 00:32:47,564
When you went out with that girl
to the bar?
686
00:32:57,076 --> 00:32:59,276
What was going on there
at the lake
687
00:32:59,344 --> 00:33:02,612
To make him want to stop, check
on y'all on the first place?
688
00:33:08,787 --> 00:33:10,253
And the girl?
689
00:33:13,224 --> 00:33:14,992
Consensual making out?
690
00:33:23,168 --> 00:33:25,002
She screamed something else?
What, like rape?
691
00:33:28,006 --> 00:33:29,373
But it wasn't rape.
692
00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:36,546
During darren's jury trial
693
00:33:36,548 --> 00:33:39,749
For assaulting the cop
as he tried to flee,
694
00:33:39,751 --> 00:33:42,419
All the facts from that night
were admissible.
695
00:33:42,487 --> 00:33:45,955
And his texas victim testified
that he was raping her
696
00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:49,192
When that cop showed up
and saved her.
697
00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:50,861
Did you hear
the family ever talk about
698
00:33:50,929 --> 00:33:53,396
How granny was found
without her panties on,
699
00:33:53,464 --> 00:33:55,866
Somebody took her panties?
700
00:33:55,934 --> 00:33:57,200
And then we have--
701
00:33:57,268 --> 00:33:59,736
Who says you came
into her apartment
702
00:33:59,804 --> 00:34:02,572
Without her permission
and took her panties.
703
00:34:03,875 --> 00:34:05,775
No correlation?
704
00:34:05,844 --> 00:34:07,944
You don't seem to have
very healthy relationships
705
00:34:08,013 --> 00:34:10,213
With women, though,
mr. Ethridge.
706
00:34:15,821 --> 00:34:17,854
It is.
707
00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:23,160
You can break into--apartment
and take her negligee,
708
00:34:23,228 --> 00:34:24,694
Her pajamas, and her panties.
709
00:34:28,366 --> 00:34:30,434
That's what she says.
710
00:34:33,772 --> 00:34:36,173
Just like the girl
at the park here in texas.
711
00:34:36,175 --> 00:34:39,242
She exaggerating or embellishing
when she cried rape?
712
00:34:39,310 --> 00:34:40,911
Hughes: I mean, the worst-case
scenario for her at that time
713
00:34:40,979 --> 00:34:42,612
Would have just been a citation
714
00:34:42,681 --> 00:34:44,447
For being in the park
after dark.
715
00:34:44,515 --> 00:34:46,082
If I'm just looking
at a misdemeanor citation,
716
00:34:46,151 --> 00:34:47,184
I'm not going to scream rape.
717
00:34:50,155 --> 00:34:51,921
How are we supposed
to believe you
718
00:34:51,923 --> 00:34:53,890
About what happened
with your grandma
719
00:34:53,959 --> 00:34:55,725
If you won't tell us
the truth about the rest of it?
720
00:34:58,763 --> 00:35:01,431
Not important
whether or not we believe you
721
00:35:01,499 --> 00:35:04,134
That you committed a capital
murder of your own grandma?
722
00:35:09,975 --> 00:35:11,741
Well, you're looking
at two people
723
00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:13,043
Who suspect you of that, sir.
724
00:35:22,387 --> 00:35:24,921
Every single thing
that we brought up,
725
00:35:24,989 --> 00:35:26,856
He didn't tell the truth about.
726
00:35:26,925 --> 00:35:28,791
You know,
what happened with the girl
727
00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:31,228
That he worked with
back in tennessee,
728
00:35:31,296 --> 00:35:33,095
What happened with the girl
that he got arrested
729
00:35:33,097 --> 00:35:35,232
For sexually assaulting
here in texas.
730
00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:37,701
He's not emotional
about losing his grandmother.
731
00:35:37,769 --> 00:35:39,236
That doesn't make him guilty,
732
00:35:39,304 --> 00:35:41,638
But it sure keeps him
on the suspect board.
733
00:35:41,706 --> 00:35:43,940
I think it's crazy
that after we leave,
734
00:35:44,009 --> 00:35:46,109
His parole officer asked darren
735
00:35:46,177 --> 00:35:47,978
Were they looking
at you as a suspect,
736
00:35:48,046 --> 00:35:50,880
And he says, no, like he thinks
we don't know a single thing
737
00:35:50,949 --> 00:35:52,448
With a police report anywhere.
738
00:35:52,517 --> 00:35:54,885
He's definitely odd,
weird, creepy,
739
00:35:54,953 --> 00:35:56,519
Whatever you want to call him.
740
00:35:56,521 --> 00:35:57,854
He's all the above.
741
00:35:58,389 --> 00:36:09,533
- Rider: Morning.
- Good morning.
742
00:36:09,601 --> 00:36:11,167
Siegler: Good morning, guys.
743
00:36:11,235 --> 00:36:13,803
It's time we review
everything we've learned.
744
00:36:13,805 --> 00:36:17,440
What can we prove today
33 years later
745
00:36:17,508 --> 00:36:18,909
In the murder
of emmaline croft?
746
00:36:18,977 --> 00:36:23,313
Why don't we start with deceased
thomas norfleet first?
747
00:36:23,381 --> 00:36:25,081
Now that we've talked
to family members
748
00:36:25,150 --> 00:36:27,149
Who had working theories
all these years,
749
00:36:27,151 --> 00:36:31,621
Any witness or piece of evidence
that points straight at norfleet
750
00:36:31,690 --> 00:36:33,756
Being the person
who killed miss emmaline?
751
00:36:33,825 --> 00:36:35,758
- We don't have anything.
- I don't think anything.
752
00:36:35,827 --> 00:36:37,560
We didn't even have anybody
that confirmed
753
00:36:37,629 --> 00:36:39,562
That he was messing around
with miss emmaline
754
00:36:39,631 --> 00:36:40,797
That would have been
the motive for all this.
755
00:36:40,865 --> 00:36:42,565
- Do we?
- No.
756
00:36:42,634 --> 00:36:46,335
I really don't think
he was capable of murder.
757
00:36:46,405 --> 00:36:48,170
Do y'all all agree
that we can clear him
758
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,572
Once and for all as a suspect?
759
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:50,907
- Yep.
- I agree.
760
00:36:50,975 --> 00:36:52,542
- Yes.
- Okay.
761
00:36:52,610 --> 00:36:55,979
Circumstantial evidence
can clear suspects
762
00:36:56,047 --> 00:36:58,481
Just as much as it
can incriminate them.
763
00:36:58,550 --> 00:37:00,250
And when it suggests
that they're innocent,
764
00:37:00,318 --> 00:37:02,952
It's our responsibility
to rule them out.
765
00:37:02,954 --> 00:37:08,024
Okay. Dennis kimsey,
emmaline's grandson.
766
00:37:08,092 --> 00:37:11,061
And we talked to lots of people
in that family, mostly women,
767
00:37:11,129 --> 00:37:14,864
Who gave us the good, the bad,
and the ugly on denny.
768
00:37:14,933 --> 00:37:16,699
Right?
I don't think they held back.
769
00:37:16,701 --> 00:37:18,368
But what do
they all tell us about
770
00:37:18,436 --> 00:37:21,137
Would denny be able
to sexually assault and murder
771
00:37:21,206 --> 00:37:23,940
His own grandma that way?
772
00:37:24,008 --> 00:37:25,341
Everyone said no.
773
00:37:25,410 --> 00:37:27,510
Get mad
and accidentally kill her--
774
00:37:27,579 --> 00:37:29,812
Hands down,
I could totally see that.
775
00:37:29,881 --> 00:37:33,115
But to carry through
the sexual stuff,
776
00:37:33,185 --> 00:37:34,951
I find it very hard to believe.
777
00:37:35,020 --> 00:37:37,620
Would he be capable
of killing someone?
778
00:37:37,622 --> 00:37:38,888
Yeah, but not his granny.
779
00:37:38,890 --> 00:37:40,623
I agree with lieutenant sparks
on that.
780
00:37:40,692 --> 00:37:42,525
I don't think he would have
been able to do that,
781
00:37:42,594 --> 00:37:45,027
Especially throwing in
the sexual assault part of it.
782
00:37:45,097 --> 00:37:46,863
And it feels
like even denny himself
783
00:37:46,931 --> 00:37:48,765
Was trying to solve the case.
784
00:37:48,833 --> 00:37:52,168
The grandson asked him
to pull up his shirt.
785
00:37:52,236 --> 00:37:55,872
Tom said, "I showed him I didn't
have any scratch marks."
786
00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:57,607
I think he should
be taken off the board.
787
00:37:57,675 --> 00:37:58,908
- Yep.
- Yes.
788
00:37:58,977 --> 00:38:00,876
- Yeah.
- All right.
789
00:38:00,946 --> 00:38:02,645
Denny's off the board.
790
00:38:02,713 --> 00:38:04,781
But denny's world of people,
what are y'all thinking?
791
00:38:04,849 --> 00:38:06,216
I think that when you run
792
00:38:06,284 --> 00:38:08,818
With the type of individuals
dennis ran with,
793
00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:11,053
That you're liable
to make someone pissed off.
794
00:38:11,123 --> 00:38:14,524
He could have owed somebody
money or ripped somebody off
795
00:38:14,592 --> 00:38:17,026
Or something to that effect
796
00:38:17,028 --> 00:38:20,330
To cause them to go over there
and do that to him
797
00:38:20,398 --> 00:38:22,799
'cause they knew also
how much he loved granny.
798
00:38:22,867 --> 00:38:26,769
And the one way to get him back
is to do something to her.
799
00:38:26,771 --> 00:38:30,440
So, unknown suspect--what do
we do with up here on the board?
800
00:38:30,508 --> 00:38:31,441
- Keep him up there.
- He stays.
801
00:38:31,509 --> 00:38:32,809
Gotta stay.
802
00:38:32,877 --> 00:38:34,744
Here's where things get muddy.
803
00:38:34,813 --> 00:38:37,780
While we don't believe
that dennis had it in him
804
00:38:37,782 --> 00:38:39,816
To sexually assault
his grandmother,
805
00:38:39,884 --> 00:38:42,652
He ran
with a really rough crowd.
806
00:38:42,654 --> 00:38:44,587
So the possibility still exists
807
00:38:44,656 --> 00:38:46,889
That somebody
from that really rough crowd
808
00:38:46,958 --> 00:38:50,627
Could have come looking for him
or come seeking revenge.
809
00:38:50,695 --> 00:38:52,595
And then you have
darren ethridge.
810
00:38:52,663 --> 00:38:54,864
He's a convicted felon now,
811
00:38:54,933 --> 00:38:58,467
But back then,
what do we have evidence-wise
812
00:38:58,469 --> 00:39:03,072
That points to darren be the one
who killed his own grandma?
813
00:39:03,141 --> 00:39:04,441
We just don't know.
814
00:39:04,443 --> 00:39:08,178
What was going on so bad
in that boy's life
815
00:39:08,246 --> 00:39:10,946
That his family felt the need to
get him out of the whole state?
816
00:39:11,016 --> 00:39:12,148
And then the girls.
817
00:39:12,217 --> 00:39:14,551
You had this history
of behavior.
818
00:39:19,724 --> 00:39:21,658
Yesterday, he could have
sat down and said,
819
00:39:21,726 --> 00:39:24,060
"yeah, I did that.
Man, I messed up."
820
00:39:24,128 --> 00:39:27,030
Anything you brought up,
he didn't own a thing.
821
00:39:27,098 --> 00:39:30,867
You can break into--apartment
and take her panties.
822
00:39:33,838 --> 00:39:36,373
Just like the girl at the park
here in texas?
823
00:39:36,441 --> 00:39:39,508
She exaggerating or embellishing
when she cried rape?
824
00:39:39,578 --> 00:39:42,478
But other than the similarity
with the stolen panties,
825
00:39:42,547 --> 00:39:46,983
Does any of this
directly point to his grandma?
826
00:39:47,051 --> 00:39:48,618
- Nope.
- No.
827
00:39:48,686 --> 00:39:52,122
No. To me, I'm walking away
from this town thinking,
828
00:39:52,190 --> 00:39:55,858
I still believe the evidence
leans toward darren,
829
00:39:55,927 --> 00:39:57,126
But you're not even close
830
00:39:57,195 --> 00:39:59,662
To having enough
to file any charges.
831
00:39:59,730 --> 00:40:02,865
There's no nice way to put it.
We did not get there.
832
00:40:02,934 --> 00:40:04,534
We didn't solve the case.
833
00:40:04,602 --> 00:40:06,602
We did not get
the answers we wanted.
834
00:40:06,671 --> 00:40:08,070
We did not get justice
835
00:40:08,072 --> 00:40:10,005
For miss emmaline
or for her family.
836
00:40:10,075 --> 00:40:13,409
I just don't understand how when
you have a victim like her
837
00:40:13,478 --> 00:40:16,212
And she gets murdered
this horrible, horrible way,
838
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,314
Maybe even
by her own family member,
839
00:40:18,383 --> 00:40:21,050
And god won't let us solve
this case right now.
840
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:22,318
It doesn't make
any sense to me
841
00:40:22,386 --> 00:40:24,387
When I'm trying
to make it all make sense.
842
00:40:24,455 --> 00:40:26,055
I don't know how to say
how bad it feels
843
00:40:26,124 --> 00:40:28,158
To leave a case this way.
844
00:40:28,226 --> 00:40:31,427
The only good news we can say
is that we're leaving this case
845
00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:34,296
In very capable hands
with detective hughes,
846
00:40:34,298 --> 00:40:36,432
Lieutenant sparks,
and ron schroeder,
847
00:40:36,501 --> 00:40:38,734
'cause they're going to continue
to do whatever they can
848
00:40:38,803 --> 00:40:41,303
To try and get justice
for miss emmaline.
849
00:40:41,305 --> 00:40:42,505
We're going
to keep knocking on doors.
850
00:40:42,574 --> 00:40:43,606
We're going
to keep calling people
851
00:40:43,674 --> 00:40:45,574
Until we get something.
852
00:40:45,644 --> 00:40:48,010
Now that it's out there again,
something's going to happen.
853
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:49,312
- You're still hopeful?
- I am.
854
00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:50,246
- You, too?
- Oh, yes.
855
00:40:50,315 --> 00:40:51,181
Good.
856
00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:58,822
♪ my blood spills its red
for you ♪
857
00:41:00,792 --> 00:41:05,527
♪ your love flows
it slows my bones ♪
858
00:41:05,529 --> 00:41:07,397
Siegler: Remember when you
first talked to tim?
859
00:41:07,465 --> 00:41:09,999
He was worried
that it was denny.
860
00:41:10,001 --> 00:41:12,034
Yeah. I don't know if
he's held any animosity
861
00:41:12,103 --> 00:41:13,603
Against him over the years.
862
00:41:13,671 --> 00:41:16,472
Just in the back of his mind,
thinking that it's him.
863
00:41:16,474 --> 00:41:19,375
I think one of the worst
things about this job is having
864
00:41:19,444 --> 00:41:23,112
To tell miss emmaline's grandson
that we didn't get justice
865
00:41:23,181 --> 00:41:25,348
And we didn't get
the answers he wants.
866
00:41:25,416 --> 00:41:27,349
The good thing
that we can tell him, though,
867
00:41:27,419 --> 00:41:29,518
Is that his brother
was not involved
868
00:41:29,588 --> 00:41:30,720
In what happened
to his grandmother,
869
00:41:30,788 --> 00:41:32,722
And I hope
that makes him feel better.
870
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:34,557
So, it's been a long week.
871
00:41:34,625 --> 00:41:37,327
- I wish I had better news.
- Okay.
872
00:41:37,395 --> 00:41:39,996
So, we did a deep dive
into everybody,
873
00:41:40,064 --> 00:41:42,231
Including the neighbor,
mr. Norfleet.
874
00:41:42,233 --> 00:41:45,234
We feel comfortable
ruling him out as a suspect,
875
00:41:45,303 --> 00:41:46,903
And then
we can move on to denny.
876
00:41:46,971 --> 00:41:48,604
A bad past,
877
00:41:48,673 --> 00:41:50,773
Was into a lot of stuff
and everything like that.
878
00:41:50,842 --> 00:41:52,909
But everybody we talked to,
879
00:41:52,977 --> 00:41:54,543
He could never
do that to granny.
880
00:41:54,545 --> 00:41:58,114
That doesn't rule out somebody
he may have ran with.
881
00:41:58,182 --> 00:42:01,284
But with confidence, we can say
that he's not the one.
882
00:42:01,352 --> 00:42:02,151
Okay.
883
00:42:02,220 --> 00:42:04,787
It gives me relief.
884
00:42:04,856 --> 00:42:07,023
And it's my prayer
that it'll give others relief
885
00:42:07,091 --> 00:42:11,393
To know that--that he is--
he's cleared.
886
00:42:11,463 --> 00:42:14,530
Maybe his legacy
could be different.
887
00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:16,532
Then we move on to darren.
888
00:42:16,601 --> 00:42:19,836
Now, we don't have enough
right now
889
00:42:19,904 --> 00:42:22,271
To definitively say
that he's responsible,
890
00:42:22,340 --> 00:42:24,540
But we can't rule him out yet.
891
00:42:24,609 --> 00:42:26,042
I understand.
892
00:42:26,110 --> 00:42:27,777
It's just hard for us
to sit here and think
893
00:42:27,845 --> 00:42:30,579
That a woman like her,
894
00:42:30,581 --> 00:42:32,681
With all that she did
for everybody,
895
00:42:32,751 --> 00:42:34,951
We can't get the answer
and we can't get her justice.
896
00:42:35,019 --> 00:42:36,986
So we're frustrated.
897
00:42:37,055 --> 00:42:38,588
He couldn't have tried
any harder.
898
00:42:38,656 --> 00:42:40,957
- He's going to keep trying.
- This isn't the end.
899
00:42:41,025 --> 00:42:43,593
We've stirred the pot again,
so we're not quitting.
900
00:42:43,661 --> 00:42:45,561
I appreciate that.
901
00:42:45,629 --> 00:42:48,565
You know,
my grandmother deserved it.
902
00:42:48,633 --> 00:42:53,336
She deserved you doing
as much as you can do.
903
00:42:53,404 --> 00:42:56,573
And you also know
with what you do for a living,
904
00:42:56,641 --> 00:42:59,175
There's a chance
you might not get the justice
905
00:42:59,243 --> 00:43:00,476
Here on this side.
906
00:43:00,545 --> 00:43:02,711
No. But I know
I serve a god.
907
00:43:02,781 --> 00:43:04,881
And I sincerely believe
she's there with him.
908
00:43:04,949 --> 00:43:07,784
And she's--she's good.
909
00:43:07,852 --> 00:43:09,952
Well, it was wonderful
meeting you.
910
00:43:10,021 --> 00:43:12,855
- Thanks.
- Thank you very much.
911
00:43:12,924 --> 00:43:15,791
If you have any information
about this case
912
00:43:15,860 --> 00:43:19,195
Or about the suspects
involved in this investigation,
913
00:43:19,263 --> 00:43:22,565
Please contact
the alcoa police department.
914
00:43:22,633 --> 00:43:25,201
You could have
the missing piece of information
915
00:43:25,269 --> 00:43:27,203
That solves this case.
916
00:43:27,271 --> 00:43:28,638
- Really good, brother.
- All right.
917
00:43:28,706 --> 00:43:29,939
- Call me if I can help anyway.
- Oh, yeah.
918
00:43:31,876 --> 00:43:34,043
Siegler: You did good.
That was good.
919
00:43:34,112 --> 00:43:35,778
I think he heard you.