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♪ dark clouds they come ♪
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♪ in the heart of the darkness
beats a truth ♪
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[vocalizing]
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♪ in the heart of the darkness
beats a truth ♪
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I think this is the most
unique case we've ever had.
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- Four people killed. I mean--
- a quadruple?
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How many quadruples did you work
in your whole career?
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Oh, man.
I would say less than five.
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I can think of three
that are prosecuted.
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The main one that I did
was a dope killing.
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This doesn't look
like a dope killing.
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And why do you need
to kill people
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When they're
in their 60s and 80s?
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And it's on Halloween night,
honest to god.
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Yeah. How odd.
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Steve and I are back to help
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The anderson county
sheriff's office
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Look into one of the biggest
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And most famous cold cases
in south carolina.
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The 2015 quadruple murder
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Of beloved couple
mike and cathy scott
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And their elderly mothers,
barbara and violet.
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All four of them
were brutally stabbed,
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Shot point-blank,
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And discovered
by cathy's daughter, amy.
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This is a case that terrified
the whole community
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And brought a lot
of media attention.
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Newsman: Monday afternoon,
four adults were found dead
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Inside a home in pendleton.
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Investigators say the victims
didn't have time to fight back.
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Those are probably the most
significant knife injuries
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I have ever seen.
Their throats are slashed,
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Their stab wounds
penetrating into the lungs.
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Then there's that coup de grâce.
Postmortem gunshot wound.
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At least one in
everybody's head, two in some.
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Whoever did this
wanted them dead,
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And they wanted that money.
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Yeah.
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Spingola: Mike and cathy
didn't trust banks,
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And it was believed
that they kept
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Tens of thousands of dollars
in cash in their house,
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Money that was stolen
from the scene.
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But who else knew
about the cash?
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And who would be willing to kill
four people in order to get it?
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I call these, like,
lukewarm ones, you know,
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Kind of like room-temperature
homicides instead of cold.
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So you got a lot
of the technology.
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The sheriff's department
collected lots and lots
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Of physical evidence.
The blood spatter.
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Siegler: Plus facebook records,
gmail records.
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Lots to play with.
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I've seen a lot of cases in my
career, but nothing like this.
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Mike and cathy
and barbara and violet
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Were good, innocent people.
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It's hard to think about
the devastating loss and fear
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Their families have suffered
for eight long years,
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Knowing that whoever did this is
walking around out there free.
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We're not leaving this town
without justice.
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Spingola: And they slaughtered
these people.
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These were armed wolves
that went in
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And killed the sheep
one at a time.
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There's a special place in hell
for this guy,
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I'll tell you that much.
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- Or a girl.
- Yeah.
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Spingola: Time to hit back.
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Did you even bring a coat?
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- No.
- Really?
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I got a thinner one.
This is nothing.
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Siegler:
It was 39 degrees this morning.
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Hey. I'm tyler duncan.
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Hello, tyler.
Nice to meet you.
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- Hi. I'm steve.
- Scotty hill.
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I saw your name in the file.
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We asked you guys here
to review one of our cases.
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We've been
very passionate about it.
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Our guys have worked
so hard on it,
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And we're just glad
y'all are here
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To take a look at it with us.
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Siegler:
Thank you for asking us.
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Are y'all ready to get working?
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- We'll show you the way.
- We're ready.
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I think this case bothered
not only the public,
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But it's also bothered
a lot of the detectives
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From the very beginning.
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It's put a fear in people.
They're afraid to this day,
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Which is the reason
we feel so strongly
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That we gotta do something
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And get these killers
off the street
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So they don't hurt anybody else.
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How long have y'all worked
for the sheriff's department?
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I started here in 2016.
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- So after this happened?
- Yes, ma'am.
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Okay. And you were here
when it happened?
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I was here, yes.
I was on scene that day.
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You wanna start with the victims
and tell us about them?
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Mike scott and cathy scott
were husband and wife.
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The two of them
were very, very close.
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Siegler: How old was mike? 58?
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- And cathy was 60.
- Mm-hmm.
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Mike worked for the department
of transportation.
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Cathy. She was kind
of taking care of the mothers.
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Siegler: After cathy and mike
are married,
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Cathy lets her mom, violet,
move in with them.
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What caused that?
Do y'all remember?
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She was having
some health issues.
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And then at some point,
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Mike's mom moves in
with them, too. Barbara.
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Mike, cathy, barbara, and violet
lived in a double-wide trailer
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While cathy's daughter, amy,
and her new husband, ross,
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Lived in a single-wide trailer,
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Along with amy's daughter
and son on the same property.
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The trailers are how far apart?
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Hill: Less than 50 yards.
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The weekend of the murder,
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Amy's kids were out of town
at ross's parents' house.
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After a couple of days
of not seeing her family,
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Amy went to check on them
and found all their bodies
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As she told the news
in an emotional interview
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Shortly afterwards.
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I keep feeling like I should
be waking up from a dream...
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Right now, and it--
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It's just not happening.
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So, yeah, it's, um--
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It's like a movie or something.
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Siegler: The murder actually
happened on Halloween.
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Start with the front
of the story.
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The call comes in.
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November 2, 2015.
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When I got on scene,
there was a lot of--
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One of the bloodiest scenes
I've ever been to.
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The gunshots were obvious.
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They had bullet holes
in their faces.
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- All four?
- Yes.
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And then we saw
all their throats were cut.
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Then we knew we were
dealing with something
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That none of us
had ever seen before.
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- How were their throats cut?
- Pretty much filleted open.
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I mean, just all the way across.
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This is just a particularly
brutal level of savagery.
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Right.
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Spingola: Not only
was this crime unique
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For having four victims,
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But killers don't typically
switch weapons mid murder.
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If you have a gun,
why not just shoot your victims?
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And if you have a knife
to kill 'em quietly,
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Why shoot 'em afterwards?
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Is it possible that there
was more than one killer?
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That's one of the mysteries
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We're gonna have
to try to solve here.
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There wasn't a lot
to indicate a massive struggle,
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And there was no forced entry.
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At the time, we believed
whoever killed them
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- Was let into the house.
- Okay.
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We talked to some of the family,
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And that's how we found out
mike bought and sold gold.
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He really didn't trust banks.
He liked to deal in cash.
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He liked to get cash
and pay people in cash.
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Several people told us
that they knew
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He kept a lot of money
in the house but not where.
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Investigators noticed a shelf
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That was tipped forward
in the main bedroom closet
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That looked like something heavy
had been removed from it.
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The theory is it was a safe
containing the stolen cash.
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All right, so let's start
with "unknown suspect."
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What would you start with
under "unknown suspect"?
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The fact that he sold gold,
is this a random murder?
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And what all did mike sell?
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- Jewelry.
- Collectible coins.
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- Sell guns. Yeah.
- Guns.
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He'd sell it on facebook, ebay.
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Siegler:
So ebay attracts weirdos.
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Back in 2009, we had people
doing the same thing murdered
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In anderson county.
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Another couple were murdered
inside their car
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Trying to buy some jewelry.
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I'm gonna put it up here
as "mike's high risk."
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Anytime
you have cash as a motive,
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It opens up your world
of potential suspects.
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We don't know who mike
was doing business with,
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But because there's
no forced entry,
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That suggested at least
it's gonna be someone
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That he was comfortable enough
to allow inside,
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Which brings us
to our next suspects.
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Let's put up amy
and put up ross.
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When this happens,
amy's 32 years old.
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Hill: She's cathy's daughter
and mike's stepdaughter.
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It's a strained relationship.
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- Does not like her mom.
- Mm-hmm.
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How many times do you think
you read in the file
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That amy calls her mom
a narcissist?
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- Constantly.
- I thought it was very telling
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That she's getting married,
and every other marriage
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She'd invited her mom to,
but not this one.
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Amy was a little bit
of a wild child,
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And she had
a handful of ex-husbands
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Before marrying ross just a week
before these murders.
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She told friends
that cathy was a narcissist,
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And they argued a lot about
how amy was raising her kids.
199
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According to the reports,
amy and ross had a big fallout
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With cathy and mike
sometime in July,
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00:08:27,907 --> 00:08:30,108
Which is just months
before the murders.
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Ross is 28. What's he like?
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00:08:33,213 --> 00:08:35,447
Honestly,
he's a pretty likable guy.
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00:08:35,515 --> 00:08:38,617
You talk to him, and he was
telling me how impressed he was
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00:08:38,619 --> 00:08:40,184
With our deputies
going into the house
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And how it reminded him of iraq.
207
00:08:42,122 --> 00:08:43,755
Not only is he a marine,
208
00:08:43,823 --> 00:08:46,090
But he's somewhat
a decorated marine.
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00:08:46,159 --> 00:08:49,260
He went through specialized
training for combat
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To guard embassies.
211
00:08:50,997 --> 00:08:54,732
What else, physical evidence
wise, connects to amy and ross?
212
00:08:54,801 --> 00:08:56,100
A lot of cash.
213
00:08:56,169 --> 00:08:58,803
Once we found the money
in the single-wide,
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That's when red flags
kind of started going up.
215
00:09:01,207 --> 00:09:04,509
It was $67,998.
216
00:09:04,578 --> 00:09:07,311
Siegler: When investigators
searched amy and ross's trailer,
217
00:09:07,381 --> 00:09:10,348
They discovered
over $60,000 in cash.
218
00:09:10,417 --> 00:09:13,685
They claimed that that money
came from their life savings
219
00:09:13,753 --> 00:09:16,087
And money from their
dog-grooming business.
220
00:09:16,156 --> 00:09:19,824
But could it really have been
mike and cathy's stolen cash?
221
00:09:19,893 --> 00:09:22,927
If so, could amy
have killed her family
222
00:09:22,929 --> 00:09:25,630
And just pretended
to have discovered the bodies?
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Did ross kill for amy,
or did ross kill on his own?
224
00:09:30,336 --> 00:09:34,706
Did they do it together,
or is it somebody else entirely?
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00:09:39,579 --> 00:09:41,880
Scotty, who's the person
from the family
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00:09:41,948 --> 00:09:44,082
You've most been in touch with
about the case?
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00:09:44,084 --> 00:09:45,584
Her name is pam isbell.
228
00:09:45,652 --> 00:09:49,120
She is barbara's daughter
and mike's sister.
229
00:09:49,188 --> 00:09:52,057
She has been pretty much
our consistent contact
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00:09:52,125 --> 00:09:53,958
Since we started with the case.
231
00:09:54,027 --> 00:09:57,228
Through the years,
mike's sister pam has been
232
00:09:57,297 --> 00:09:59,831
The primary spokesperson
for the families.
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00:09:59,899 --> 00:10:02,066
- Pam, I read all about you.
- I'm keith.
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00:10:02,135 --> 00:10:04,002
Keith, I'm kelly siegler.
Nice to meet y'all.
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00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:07,605
Pam was also the last person
to talk to mike on the phone
236
00:10:07,673 --> 00:10:08,806
The night of the murders.
237
00:10:08,875 --> 00:10:10,342
If you could tell us
a little bit
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00:10:10,410 --> 00:10:12,076
About who your mother was,
who your brother was,
239
00:10:12,145 --> 00:10:14,812
And his wife,
and, of course, violet.
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I'll start with mike and cathy.
241
00:10:18,752 --> 00:10:20,818
They actually were
in junior high school together.
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00:10:20,887 --> 00:10:22,420
Siegler: Okay.
243
00:10:22,488 --> 00:10:25,523
And they were boyfriend
and girlfriend then.
244
00:10:25,592 --> 00:10:27,591
As they went to high school,
245
00:10:27,593 --> 00:10:30,228
Cathy went
to a different school.
246
00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:35,166
And so they came back in contact
with one another years later
247
00:10:35,235 --> 00:10:38,202
And just struck it
right back up.
248
00:10:38,271 --> 00:10:40,271
Very caring people.
249
00:10:40,340 --> 00:10:43,074
She loved horses.
She loved being outdoors.
250
00:10:43,143 --> 00:10:45,510
Most of all,
she loved her grandchildren.
251
00:10:45,578 --> 00:10:48,312
Mike was
the ultimate big brother.
252
00:10:48,314 --> 00:10:53,317
He was always there for me
and for my children.
253
00:10:53,386 --> 00:10:57,155
Mother was just--
just an exceptional woman.
254
00:10:57,223 --> 00:11:00,591
She cared about her family
and her community.
255
00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:04,062
She spent countless hours
in her church
256
00:11:04,130 --> 00:11:07,431
Taking care of the children
in the nursery.
257
00:11:07,501 --> 00:11:10,001
She and miss taylor
were good together
258
00:11:10,070 --> 00:11:13,604
Because they kind of had
each other, you know.
259
00:11:13,673 --> 00:11:19,811
She was such a sweet,
very quiet-natured woman.
260
00:11:28,154 --> 00:11:30,721
[sobbing]
261
00:11:30,791 --> 00:11:31,990
What are you
thinking about, pam?
262
00:11:44,971 --> 00:11:46,805
We all lose family members,
263
00:11:46,807 --> 00:11:51,709
But there's something unnatural
264
00:11:51,777 --> 00:11:57,315
About losing family members
in-in this way.
265
00:11:57,383 --> 00:12:00,585
You don't ever forget about it.
It's just always there.
266
00:12:00,653 --> 00:12:04,055
I'm just not the same as I was.
267
00:12:04,123 --> 00:12:05,990
And not just me.
268
00:12:06,059 --> 00:12:08,593
So many other people,
so many other lives
269
00:12:08,661 --> 00:12:13,665
Waiting for some sort
of justice.
270
00:12:13,733 --> 00:12:19,137
When we went to the mortuary,
I told the mortician, you know,
271
00:12:19,205 --> 00:12:22,273
"mother didn't want to be buried
in any of her jewelry."
272
00:12:22,275 --> 00:12:24,676
And he said,
"I'll bring it to you."
273
00:12:24,744 --> 00:12:29,213
And he brought me
one bloody earring.
274
00:12:29,282 --> 00:12:30,882
That was all.
275
00:12:36,189 --> 00:12:40,258
It's heartbreaking to listen
to pam relive her grief.
276
00:12:40,326 --> 00:12:42,326
But she's also
a witness to all this.
277
00:12:42,395 --> 00:12:44,762
And we have to ask her
about the fallout
278
00:12:44,830 --> 00:12:47,465
Between mike and cathy
and amy and ross.
279
00:12:58,543 --> 00:13:02,213
[sobbing]
280
00:13:02,282 --> 00:13:05,249
It's hard to think
what this is like for pam,
281
00:13:05,318 --> 00:13:08,752
Losing her mother,
her brother, her brother's wife,
282
00:13:08,822 --> 00:13:12,323
And her mother on that tragic
Halloween night eight years ago.
283
00:13:12,392 --> 00:13:15,193
I know it's hard for her,
but we need to learn everything
284
00:13:15,261 --> 00:13:17,695
That we can
about the family fallout
285
00:13:17,763 --> 00:13:20,898
And the animosity
over mike and cathy's grandkids.
286
00:13:20,967 --> 00:13:23,301
So they really actually
almost raised them?
287
00:13:23,369 --> 00:13:26,270
Pam: Cathy bought
all of their clothes.
288
00:13:26,272 --> 00:13:29,040
They did everything.
They took 'em to school,
289
00:13:29,108 --> 00:13:31,809
Took 'em to church,
changed their diapers, fed 'em.
290
00:13:31,877 --> 00:13:34,145
Pam: Father-daughter dance
at school.
291
00:13:34,213 --> 00:13:36,180
What was going on with amy,
292
00:13:36,182 --> 00:13:38,482
Why she wasn't raising
the kids herself?
293
00:13:38,484 --> 00:13:41,552
Pam: I think it was probably
just easier for her
294
00:13:41,621 --> 00:13:43,687
So she could live her life.
295
00:13:43,757 --> 00:13:45,623
So when ross
comes into amy's life,
296
00:13:45,691 --> 00:13:49,627
How was the relationship
between the whole family?
297
00:13:49,696 --> 00:13:51,195
To begin with,
298
00:13:51,264 --> 00:13:54,965
Mike spoke very highly of him.
They got along.
299
00:13:55,035 --> 00:13:57,868
Do you have any idea
what caused a falling-out?
300
00:13:57,938 --> 00:13:59,470
What I was told
301
00:13:59,539 --> 00:14:05,509
The church had some sort
of fourth of July celebration.
302
00:14:05,511 --> 00:14:08,912
Mike and cathy
took the children.
303
00:14:08,914 --> 00:14:11,649
And when they came home,
304
00:14:11,717 --> 00:14:14,385
Amy and ross
had friends at the house.
305
00:14:14,454 --> 00:14:15,919
They were drinking.
306
00:14:15,921 --> 00:14:17,721
So when they came in,
307
00:14:17,723 --> 00:14:20,057
They just tried
to take the children
308
00:14:20,126 --> 00:14:22,293
On into the house, away from it,
309
00:14:22,362 --> 00:14:26,330
And a fight kind of started.
310
00:14:26,332 --> 00:14:29,433
And amy, "they're my children.
Let me have my children."
311
00:14:29,502 --> 00:14:33,004
And she took them,
312
00:14:33,072 --> 00:14:38,476
And basically, they never got
to see those children again.
313
00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:40,978
The week that ross and amy
got married,
314
00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:43,013
When mike came home from work,
315
00:14:43,083 --> 00:14:44,883
He went down
and knocked on their door,
316
00:14:44,951 --> 00:14:47,251
Apologized to amy.
317
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,987
He didn't want
to apologize to her,
318
00:14:50,056 --> 00:14:52,756
But he felt like it was
the right thing to do.
319
00:14:52,758 --> 00:14:56,594
He told her not being able
to see the grandchildren
320
00:14:56,662 --> 00:15:00,564
Was just really killing
cathy and miss taylor.
321
00:15:00,633 --> 00:15:05,536
So that week, amy started
coming back to their house,
322
00:15:05,605 --> 00:15:07,905
And she was telling them
323
00:15:07,974 --> 00:15:11,775
That when they went to pick
the children up in columbia
324
00:15:11,845 --> 00:15:13,777
That next weekend,
325
00:15:13,779 --> 00:15:15,613
That they would be able
to see them.
326
00:15:15,682 --> 00:15:17,915
Siegler: If amy
was keeping those kids
327
00:15:17,983 --> 00:15:19,884
Away from their grandparents
328
00:15:19,952 --> 00:15:21,885
When they only lived
a few feet from them,
329
00:15:21,955 --> 00:15:24,422
Their relationship
was more tense than we thought.
330
00:15:24,490 --> 00:15:25,823
But mike had told the family
331
00:15:25,891 --> 00:15:28,359
That they had made up
before the murders.
332
00:15:28,428 --> 00:15:31,696
So could amy really be behind
what happened to them?
333
00:15:31,764 --> 00:15:34,999
For us to still be here
eight years later,
334
00:15:35,067 --> 00:15:36,668
It's not justice.
335
00:15:36,736 --> 00:15:38,436
I don't wanna tell you
to get your hopes up,
336
00:15:38,504 --> 00:15:40,705
But I have my hopes up,
so, you know...
337
00:15:40,773 --> 00:15:42,774
- You're an answered prayer.
- Well, you're sweet.
338
00:15:42,842 --> 00:15:46,177
I have prayed for you for about
the last three or four years.
339
00:15:46,245 --> 00:15:49,013
If anybody can do it, kelly can.
340
00:15:49,082 --> 00:15:51,715
Be patient
for another week or so,
341
00:15:51,785 --> 00:15:54,953
And then
he'll call you back, okay?
342
00:15:56,122 --> 00:15:57,455
This is good.
343
00:16:03,496 --> 00:16:07,665
So, I am looking over a case
that happened back in 2015,
344
00:16:07,734 --> 00:16:10,734
A homicide that happened
at your neighbor's house.
345
00:16:10,804 --> 00:16:12,603
Siegler: The next witnesses
we wanna talk to
346
00:16:12,672 --> 00:16:14,505
Are mike and cathy's neighbors.
347
00:16:14,574 --> 00:16:17,675
None of the neighbors reported
hearing any gunshots that night.
348
00:16:17,743 --> 00:16:19,610
But what did they hear or know
349
00:16:19,679 --> 00:16:22,813
About amy and cathy's
strained relationship
350
00:16:22,815 --> 00:16:25,249
And this potential
fourth of July blow-up?
351
00:16:25,318 --> 00:16:28,586
Is there anything you can tell
me off the top of your head
352
00:16:28,654 --> 00:16:30,355
That you remember about it?
353
00:16:45,071 --> 00:16:47,805
You actually heard her say
that she wished they were dead?
354
00:16:57,550 --> 00:17:00,050
- Okay.
- Not only did this neighbor
355
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,654
Hear amy's attitude
toward her mother firsthand,
356
00:17:03,656 --> 00:17:06,623
She heard amy say
she wished cathy was dead.
357
00:17:06,693 --> 00:17:09,861
But did amy have anything to do
with making that wish come true?
358
00:17:09,929 --> 00:17:13,564
I knew about the deal
359
00:17:13,633 --> 00:17:16,167
With the daughter
got angry with her
360
00:17:16,235 --> 00:17:19,303
And kept the children
from cathy.
361
00:17:19,372 --> 00:17:21,105
So tell us about that one.
362
00:17:21,173 --> 00:17:24,842
It seemed that they really
tried to help amy a lot.
363
00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:28,646
And mike and cathy, they
really took care of the kids.
364
00:17:28,714 --> 00:17:30,982
And it broke
cathy and mike's heart.
365
00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:33,751
She just really
missed the kids.
366
00:17:33,819 --> 00:17:36,386
And the two older ladies
that lived there,
367
00:17:36,388 --> 00:17:39,190
They were used to them kids
coming in and out.
368
00:17:39,258 --> 00:17:42,259
You think cathy was afraid
at all of amy and ross?
369
00:17:42,328 --> 00:17:44,261
No. She never expressed that.
370
00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:47,165
But it was always
the talk of the area
371
00:17:47,167 --> 00:17:49,400
That mike would go
to flea markets
372
00:17:49,468 --> 00:17:54,005
And he would get some kind of
video games that he collected.
373
00:17:54,073 --> 00:17:56,440
There was
a good resale market for him
374
00:17:56,509 --> 00:17:59,176
And that he would buy
any old jewelry
375
00:17:59,245 --> 00:18:00,644
That had some gold in it.
376
00:18:00,646 --> 00:18:02,146
It was always a rumor
377
00:18:02,215 --> 00:18:05,917
That he kept a lot of cash
and gold stuff around.
378
00:18:05,985 --> 00:18:09,120
And I think you've got
to be one sick puppy
379
00:18:09,188 --> 00:18:11,222
To go in there and kill
two helpless old women.
380
00:18:11,290 --> 00:18:12,523
- I agree with you.
- Yeah.
381
00:18:12,592 --> 00:18:14,926
The thought
that somebody came in
382
00:18:14,994 --> 00:18:16,527
And killed those people,
383
00:18:16,596 --> 00:18:19,062
I still have nightmares
about that.
384
00:18:19,132 --> 00:18:21,432
Sounds like a lot of people
knew about mike's side business,
385
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:22,466
Which may have put
a target on him.
386
00:18:22,535 --> 00:18:24,268
And it's curious
that the murders
387
00:18:24,336 --> 00:18:26,470
Occurred on Halloween night
with no forced entry.
388
00:18:26,538 --> 00:18:28,139
Could the killer
or killers have,
389
00:18:28,207 --> 00:18:29,807
Under the guise
of being a trick-or-treater,
390
00:18:29,875 --> 00:18:31,109
Gained entry to the house?
391
00:18:31,177 --> 00:18:32,576
These are all things
we need to consider
392
00:18:32,578 --> 00:18:34,177
In this investigation.
393
00:18:34,179 --> 00:18:36,446
That's just still
a lot of money to keep.
394
00:18:36,448 --> 00:18:37,981
Spingola: Yeah. I just don't
understand people--
395
00:18:38,051 --> 00:18:39,316
"I don't trust banks."
396
00:18:39,385 --> 00:18:40,984
Your chances
of losing money to a bank,
397
00:18:40,986 --> 00:18:43,420
It's way less than somebody
398
00:18:43,489 --> 00:18:44,922
Busting into your house
looking for it.
399
00:18:44,991 --> 00:18:45,890
Right.
400
00:18:47,259 --> 00:19:00,671
This morning, we're gonna
get dr. Pinneri to come in
401
00:19:00,673 --> 00:19:02,340
And go through
the autopsy stuff.
402
00:19:02,408 --> 00:19:03,908
- Mm-hmm.
- We know
403
00:19:03,976 --> 00:19:06,710
That on Halloween night,
mike and cathy scott
404
00:19:06,712 --> 00:19:10,314
And their mothers
were brutally stabbed and shot.
405
00:19:10,382 --> 00:19:12,883
- Y'all, this is dr. Pinneri.
- Hey. I'm tyler duncan.
406
00:19:12,885 --> 00:19:14,284
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
407
00:19:14,354 --> 00:19:16,787
What we don't know is what
their injuries can tell us
408
00:19:16,856 --> 00:19:18,923
About their attacker
or attackers.
409
00:19:18,991 --> 00:19:21,358
There's a lot to cover,
so buckle up.
410
00:19:21,427 --> 00:19:24,895
Because with so many victims,
it raises the question,
411
00:19:24,964 --> 00:19:27,665
Was there just
one assailant or more?
412
00:19:27,733 --> 00:19:30,267
November 1, 2015,
there were four individuals
413
00:19:30,336 --> 00:19:31,769
Found dead in a trailer.
414
00:19:31,837 --> 00:19:34,038
The husband, a wife,
and both of their mothers.
415
00:19:34,106 --> 00:19:36,307
We have one person in a bedroom,
416
00:19:36,375 --> 00:19:39,109
And the other three
are in the living room.
417
00:19:39,178 --> 00:19:41,545
They all have similar injuries.
418
00:19:41,547 --> 00:19:44,515
All of them are concentrated
in the head and neck area.
419
00:19:44,517 --> 00:19:45,849
Every single one of them
420
00:19:45,851 --> 00:19:47,851
Has a defense-type injury
of their hands.
421
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,655
So they're all fighting back
against whoever this is.
422
00:19:51,724 --> 00:19:54,258
Terry michael scott
is a 58-year-old male,
423
00:19:54,327 --> 00:19:56,327
And he's found face down
in the living room.
424
00:19:56,395 --> 00:19:58,395
There's a huge
pool of blood there.
425
00:19:58,464 --> 00:20:02,900
It's very clear that he
exsanguinated at that area.
426
00:20:02,968 --> 00:20:05,969
So I think the male
was probably killed first.
427
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:08,940
There's no disturbance
of that blood.
428
00:20:09,008 --> 00:20:10,641
So if he's getting up
and walking around
429
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:13,611
And trying to protect
the other occupants,
430
00:20:13,679 --> 00:20:15,078
I would have expected
431
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,448
There to be more
smeared blood from him.
432
00:20:17,516 --> 00:20:20,718
He has six sharp force injuries
of the left side of the neck.
433
00:20:20,786 --> 00:20:21,985
Six different swipes.
434
00:20:22,055 --> 00:20:23,787
- Yes.
- I thought there were just two.
435
00:20:23,856 --> 00:20:25,322
The longest one of these
436
00:20:25,391 --> 00:20:28,025
Is estimated
six and three-eighths inches.
437
00:20:28,093 --> 00:20:30,494
So, you know,
probably about that long.
438
00:20:30,563 --> 00:20:32,630
We're talking
about a long knife blade.
439
00:20:32,698 --> 00:20:35,233
So the gunshot wound
to the head behind the left ear,
440
00:20:35,301 --> 00:20:37,367
There's no real hemorrhage
in the soft tissues.
441
00:20:37,369 --> 00:20:40,037
I think this
is a postmortem injury,
442
00:20:40,105 --> 00:20:42,540
Meaning he was already dead
when it was sustained.
443
00:20:42,608 --> 00:20:45,776
The neck injuries
and the incised wounds
444
00:20:45,845 --> 00:20:47,745
And stab wounds,
445
00:20:47,813 --> 00:20:49,847
All of them were fatal
in and of themselves.
446
00:20:49,915 --> 00:20:53,384
I'm not really sure why this
particular person or persons
447
00:20:53,452 --> 00:20:55,819
Chose to inflict
the gunshot wounds
448
00:20:55,888 --> 00:20:57,855
After they were
already pretty much dead,
449
00:20:57,923 --> 00:20:59,623
But that's what happened.
450
00:20:59,692 --> 00:21:03,094
All right, so now we have
the two elderly females.
451
00:21:03,162 --> 00:21:06,263
They're laying side by side
on the floor in the living room.
452
00:21:06,332 --> 00:21:10,368
Violet is on the outside
and barbara's on the inside.
453
00:21:10,436 --> 00:21:13,837
Violet. She has probably one
of the most significant wounds.
454
00:21:13,906 --> 00:21:15,873
It's a near decapitation.
455
00:21:15,941 --> 00:21:17,341
It goes almost
all the way across
456
00:21:17,410 --> 00:21:18,709
From one side to the other.
457
00:21:18,778 --> 00:21:22,413
Also, she has two gunshot wounds
of her head,
458
00:21:22,481 --> 00:21:24,615
And she's got defense wounds
of her left hand.
459
00:21:24,617 --> 00:21:27,718
So this is a 85-year-old lady
that's fighting back.
460
00:21:27,787 --> 00:21:30,520
Barbara scott has the most
injuries of all of them.
461
00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:32,590
Approximately six stab wounds
462
00:21:32,658 --> 00:21:35,159
Of the neck, chest,
and left shoulder.
463
00:21:35,227 --> 00:21:36,227
So she has
a gunshot wound to the head.
464
00:21:36,295 --> 00:21:37,628
It goes in behind the right ear.
465
00:21:37,697 --> 00:21:40,397
There is stippling and residue
on the actual ear,
466
00:21:40,466 --> 00:21:41,799
So we're talking about close.
467
00:21:41,867 --> 00:21:43,701
Hearing about the knife wounds
468
00:21:43,769 --> 00:21:45,569
To barbara and violet
made me angry.
469
00:21:45,638 --> 00:21:47,604
These two old ladies
wouldn't hurt a fly,
470
00:21:47,673 --> 00:21:49,272
Yet they went through hell.
471
00:21:49,274 --> 00:21:50,674
Stab wounds
don't kill you instantly.
472
00:21:50,743 --> 00:21:52,710
They're slow, painful,
and frightening.
473
00:21:52,778 --> 00:21:56,480
So now we'll go to cathy scott,
and she's found in the bedroom.
474
00:21:56,548 --> 00:21:58,248
She's just got
the one stab wound.
475
00:21:58,317 --> 00:22:01,719
It goes into her right lung.
It gets the major blood vessels.
476
00:22:01,787 --> 00:22:03,386
She has a lot
of internal bleeding.
477
00:22:03,388 --> 00:22:05,589
This one goes in
nine and a quarter inches.
478
00:22:05,658 --> 00:22:10,728
There is a rectangular bruise
on the lateral edge of it
479
00:22:10,796 --> 00:22:12,562
That would be consistent
with the handle.
480
00:22:12,632 --> 00:22:14,165
These injuries
are very consistent
481
00:22:14,233 --> 00:22:16,267
With the ones caused
by combat-type knives
482
00:22:16,335 --> 00:22:18,035
With a hilt or guard
near the handle.
483
00:22:18,103 --> 00:22:20,537
Ross vilardi
was trained as a marine,
484
00:22:20,606 --> 00:22:23,106
Including in using
a combat knife,
485
00:22:23,175 --> 00:22:24,875
Typically a ka-bar.
486
00:22:24,944 --> 00:22:26,744
Ross can't explain
where his ka-bar was
487
00:22:26,812 --> 00:22:28,078
Or if he ever had one.
488
00:22:28,147 --> 00:22:30,213
Could he have not
only used his training
489
00:22:30,215 --> 00:22:32,516
But the actual weapon
he was trained to use?
490
00:22:32,584 --> 00:22:35,052
So cathy,
she's got two gunshot wounds.
491
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:39,556
And this is the hallway that's
leading up to where she's found.
492
00:22:39,625 --> 00:22:42,059
And you can see footprints.
493
00:22:42,127 --> 00:22:44,628
So I don't know
if she's having this altercation
494
00:22:44,697 --> 00:22:46,163
With a person right there.
495
00:22:46,231 --> 00:22:47,998
But in order for her
to have this on her foot,
496
00:22:48,067 --> 00:22:49,500
She had to have walked
on the carpet.
497
00:22:49,568 --> 00:22:51,268
The carpet
where it's all bloody.
498
00:22:51,337 --> 00:22:53,503
- Yes.
- Could cathy scott
499
00:22:53,573 --> 00:22:57,374
Have had any of her three
injuries in the living room?
500
00:22:57,443 --> 00:22:59,943
Which of those would
have given her time and ability
501
00:23:00,012 --> 00:23:04,081
To still be hurt but not dead
to go to the bedroom?
502
00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:05,749
The stab wound.
503
00:23:05,751 --> 00:23:08,451
It takes time
for that blood to accumulate
504
00:23:08,453 --> 00:23:11,488
And deprive the brain
of the oxygen it needs.
505
00:23:11,557 --> 00:23:13,891
So, yeah, absolutely.
She could walk around with that.
506
00:23:13,959 --> 00:23:16,660
- Okay.
- The stab wound was fatal
507
00:23:16,728 --> 00:23:18,562
Regardless of the shooting.
508
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:19,630
- Yes.
- Okay.
509
00:23:19,698 --> 00:23:21,732
This is not a quick event.
510
00:23:21,801 --> 00:23:24,768
If you have a gun
and you wanna kill four people,
511
00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:26,436
Why not just shoot them all?
512
00:23:26,438 --> 00:23:28,305
Dr. Pinneri picked up
on one of the biggest mysteries
513
00:23:28,373 --> 00:23:29,907
Of this crime.
514
00:23:29,975 --> 00:23:32,042
Why would a killer use a knife
if he had a gun?
515
00:23:32,111 --> 00:23:33,677
And why use the gun
516
00:23:33,746 --> 00:23:35,278
If the victims
are actually already dead
517
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,515
Or dying of the knife ones?
518
00:23:37,517 --> 00:23:38,982
Could this have been
a two-person job
519
00:23:38,984 --> 00:23:40,584
Or just extreme overkill?
520
00:23:40,652 --> 00:23:44,555
Or did something not go
according to the killer's plan?
521
00:23:55,467 --> 00:23:57,635
Hill: Thank y'all
for coming down here.
522
00:23:57,703 --> 00:24:00,437
We know it was
your mother and sister
523
00:24:00,439 --> 00:24:02,172
That were involved.
524
00:24:02,241 --> 00:24:04,942
Siegler: With four victims,
two murder weapons,
525
00:24:05,010 --> 00:24:06,910
Thousands of dollars
in stolen cash,
526
00:24:06,979 --> 00:24:09,579
And the possibility
of multiple killers,
527
00:24:09,581 --> 00:24:11,915
Our crime-scene
reconstruction analysis
528
00:24:11,984 --> 00:24:14,885
Is gonna be way more elaborate
and detailed than usual.
529
00:24:14,954 --> 00:24:17,554
So while we work
to bring in some help,
530
00:24:17,556 --> 00:24:19,223
We've got more witnesses
to talk to.
531
00:24:19,291 --> 00:24:21,925
We just kind of wanna go over
what y'all remember
532
00:24:21,927 --> 00:24:24,828
About the case and then kind
of get some details.
533
00:24:24,897 --> 00:24:26,864
Siegler: We're hoping
that cathy's brothers
534
00:24:26,932 --> 00:24:28,599
Can tell us a little bit more
535
00:24:28,667 --> 00:24:31,602
About her strained relationship
with her daughter amy
536
00:24:31,670 --> 00:24:35,338
And the possibility that mike's
cash-driven side hustle
537
00:24:35,408 --> 00:24:37,341
Got him and his family killed.
538
00:24:37,409 --> 00:24:38,642
Now, one of the things
that was brought up
539
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:41,579
Was mike's business
that he did on the side.
540
00:24:41,581 --> 00:24:43,113
Y'all know anything
about his business?
541
00:24:43,182 --> 00:24:45,382
Not a lot. But we were sort
of concerned about it
542
00:24:45,451 --> 00:24:47,484
'cause cathy was going with him.
543
00:24:47,553 --> 00:24:49,386
They wouldn't have people
come to their house?
544
00:24:49,455 --> 00:24:50,988
I don't think they ever did.
545
00:24:51,056 --> 00:24:52,389
He'd meet 'em somewhere
most of the time.
546
00:24:52,458 --> 00:24:54,624
I know he was trying
to make some money,
547
00:24:54,694 --> 00:24:57,595
But I said, "there already
been a couple murdered."
548
00:24:57,597 --> 00:25:00,063
One guy was murdered
was kind of local.
549
00:25:00,132 --> 00:25:02,199
Siegler: Detective hill
actually made the scene
550
00:25:02,268 --> 00:25:04,935
Of a local couple
who sold gold like mike,
551
00:25:05,004 --> 00:25:06,770
Who were robbed
and killed over it.
552
00:25:06,839 --> 00:25:08,438
That killer was caught.
553
00:25:08,507 --> 00:25:11,975
But if mike was meeting
customers away from the house,
554
00:25:11,977 --> 00:25:14,645
It seems less likely that they
would know where he lived
555
00:25:14,713 --> 00:25:16,513
Or where he kept his cash.
556
00:25:16,581 --> 00:25:18,882
What was amy like?
Y'all known her her whole life.
557
00:25:18,951 --> 00:25:21,652
- She was odd.
- How was cathy able
558
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,654
To maintain control
of amy growing up?
559
00:25:23,722 --> 00:25:25,555
I don't think she could.
560
00:25:25,557 --> 00:25:29,493
I've seen 'em fight,
and she'd get the best of cathy.
561
00:25:29,561 --> 00:25:31,061
Cathy and amy
would actually go to it, fight?
562
00:25:31,063 --> 00:25:32,129
Yeah.
563
00:25:32,197 --> 00:25:34,031
This is the first we've heard
564
00:25:34,099 --> 00:25:35,999
That cathy and amy
had actually gotten
565
00:25:36,001 --> 00:25:38,635
Into physical altercations
in the past.
566
00:25:38,704 --> 00:25:40,671
It sounds like
they were having trouble
567
00:25:40,739 --> 00:25:43,573
Long before their feud
over how to raise amy's kids.
568
00:25:43,643 --> 00:25:45,509
And toward the end,
569
00:25:45,577 --> 00:25:48,545
Did it get to where cathy
just kind of gave up on her?
570
00:25:48,547 --> 00:25:53,284
She had give up on amy
when she took the kids
571
00:25:53,352 --> 00:25:56,353
And she know she wasn't
gonna get 'em back.
572
00:25:56,421 --> 00:25:57,621
Why would amy
do that to her mom,
573
00:25:57,690 --> 00:25:59,289
Tear the kids away like that?
574
00:25:59,358 --> 00:26:00,891
She wasn't getting
the money she wanted.
575
00:26:00,959 --> 00:26:03,226
She used those kids
as a weapon on her mother.
576
00:26:03,295 --> 00:26:04,995
She used the kids,
577
00:26:05,064 --> 00:26:07,698
Threatened to take 'em away
or take 'em away.
578
00:26:07,766 --> 00:26:09,500
She ever asked you all
for money?
579
00:26:09,568 --> 00:26:12,736
No. She always
hit her mama up.
580
00:26:12,804 --> 00:26:16,773
According to cathy's brothers,
amy and cathy argued over money.
581
00:26:16,842 --> 00:26:19,209
I'd wondered
if amy's feud with her mother
582
00:26:19,278 --> 00:26:22,680
Over how to raise her kids
was enough to want her dead,
583
00:26:22,748 --> 00:26:26,483
But maybe amy
had 60,000 other reasons.
584
00:26:26,551 --> 00:26:28,285
Will you just tell us
what you remember
585
00:26:28,353 --> 00:26:30,020
And kind of
what your relationship is?
586
00:26:30,089 --> 00:26:30,921
Okay.
587
00:26:42,934 --> 00:26:45,603
When was the last time
that you had spoken with cathy?
588
00:26:57,015 --> 00:26:58,681
Spingola: We read about the fact
589
00:26:58,683 --> 00:27:01,118
That amy posted online
about the feud with her mother.
590
00:27:01,186 --> 00:27:02,853
Our digital forensics expert
is looking
591
00:27:02,921 --> 00:27:05,623
At all the social media
available on amy's posts
592
00:27:05,691 --> 00:27:07,725
About her mother and mike's
side business.
593
00:27:07,727 --> 00:27:09,126
I don't care much
for social media,
594
00:27:09,194 --> 00:27:10,493
But it could contain evidence
595
00:27:10,495 --> 00:27:12,229
That would help us solve
this tragic case.
596
00:27:14,032 --> 00:27:15,466
I'm sorry about your grandma.
597
00:27:26,312 --> 00:27:29,780
She's in a better place
than you and I are right now.
598
00:27:48,033 --> 00:27:50,667
Tell us what you remember
about that night.
599
00:27:50,735 --> 00:27:52,836
We got the call from my mom.
600
00:27:52,904 --> 00:27:55,138
We got there,
and it was overwhelming.
601
00:27:55,207 --> 00:27:58,275
And the family members,
the neighbors
602
00:27:58,343 --> 00:28:00,043
Lined up
on both sides of the street.
603
00:28:00,112 --> 00:28:04,247
The news media outlets
were there.
604
00:28:04,249 --> 00:28:05,682
How was amy acting?
605
00:28:05,751 --> 00:28:08,318
She was just standing there
like a normal...
606
00:28:08,387 --> 00:28:10,720
"I'm outside waiting
for someone to pick me up."
607
00:28:10,790 --> 00:28:15,592
People crying on shoulders,
and they're just iced.
608
00:28:15,661 --> 00:28:17,026
You know that's evidence.
609
00:28:17,028 --> 00:28:20,063
How people are acting
is evidence, too.
610
00:28:20,132 --> 00:28:21,731
Did she speak with y'all at all?
611
00:28:21,733 --> 00:28:25,803
No. We didn't speak to amy
till the funeral.
612
00:28:25,805 --> 00:28:29,940
And she just looked at us
and said, "I didn't do it."
613
00:28:30,008 --> 00:28:32,442
She wasn't crying
or upset or...
614
00:28:32,511 --> 00:28:34,077
No. She was in a red dress.
615
00:28:34,146 --> 00:28:35,478
She wore a red dress
to the funeral?
616
00:28:35,547 --> 00:28:38,181
A red dress with a--
you know like the 1960s?
617
00:28:38,183 --> 00:28:40,617
Like you would go to
a horse race with the big hats.
618
00:28:40,686 --> 00:28:42,953
- Like the kentucky derby?
- Like a kentucky derby hat.
619
00:28:43,021 --> 00:28:44,454
And I need to tell y'all,
620
00:28:44,523 --> 00:28:46,056
The day that we had
our funeral service,
621
00:28:46,124 --> 00:28:47,558
A few hours later,
622
00:28:47,626 --> 00:28:49,392
Him and his family
went in the house
623
00:28:49,394 --> 00:28:51,061
And ripped everything
out of the house
624
00:28:51,129 --> 00:28:53,062
And threw everything
in the front yard.
625
00:28:53,064 --> 00:28:56,466
All the blood,
the carpet, the furniture.
626
00:28:56,535 --> 00:28:58,635
Everything
went in the front yard.
627
00:28:58,704 --> 00:29:01,238
How fast did it start
to become apparent
628
00:29:01,306 --> 00:29:03,507
That there was gonna be
an issue about the money
629
00:29:03,575 --> 00:29:06,376
And the jewelry
and the coins and whatever?
630
00:29:06,378 --> 00:29:09,078
That was probably
within the first week.
631
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,747
The neighbor across
the street, he calls,
632
00:29:10,815 --> 00:29:13,950
Like, "just let you know,
they came into the vehicles."
633
00:29:14,019 --> 00:29:15,853
They were looking
for some documents,
634
00:29:15,855 --> 00:29:19,723
Whether it was the deed,
property, money.
635
00:29:19,791 --> 00:29:22,826
Siegler: Amy seemed unemotional
about the murders,
636
00:29:22,895 --> 00:29:25,628
And it sounds like
her husband ross was, too.
637
00:29:25,630 --> 00:29:27,630
And as soon
as they buried the bodies,
638
00:29:27,632 --> 00:29:31,000
They were getting rid of the old
and looking for the gold.
639
00:29:31,002 --> 00:29:34,705
Maybe this was about more
than just mike's stash of cash.
640
00:29:34,773 --> 00:29:36,707
So, what's your take
on ross and amy?
641
00:29:39,511 --> 00:29:41,612
Really? So he's not her punk.
642
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,646
She doesn't control him
that much?
643
00:29:43,648 --> 00:29:44,848
- I don't think so.
- You don't?
644
00:29:44,917 --> 00:29:46,884
I think they stick together
like glue.
645
00:29:46,952 --> 00:29:48,952
Mm-hmm.
So it's more like a partnership.
646
00:29:48,954 --> 00:29:51,488
Oh, yeah. They can come together
to make one.
647
00:29:59,230 --> 00:30:02,032
♪ hot color in this summer ♪
648
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:06,203
♪ I'm a sweatshirt
on the black-top burner ♪
649
00:30:06,271 --> 00:30:08,138
Siegler: Okay, so what all
with this crime scene
650
00:30:08,207 --> 00:30:09,906
Are you hoping
you can point out?
651
00:30:09,975 --> 00:30:11,708
'cause I'm the one
sitting there going,
652
00:30:11,777 --> 00:30:14,277
Did amy do this
all by herself,
653
00:30:14,346 --> 00:30:16,713
Or did she have
a little bit of help?
654
00:30:16,782 --> 00:30:19,449
Or did she not do any of
the stabbing, shooting at all?
655
00:30:19,451 --> 00:30:20,651
What are you thinking?
656
00:30:20,719 --> 00:30:22,152
One of the things
I hope to point out
657
00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:25,489
Is that you can track
the people via the blood,
658
00:30:25,557 --> 00:30:28,024
Where the blood was,
where they were found.
659
00:30:28,093 --> 00:30:30,694
Siegler:
On Halloween night, 2015,
660
00:30:30,762 --> 00:30:33,897
Mike and cathy scott
and their elderly mothers,
661
00:30:33,966 --> 00:30:37,934
Barbara and violet, were all
fatally stabbed and shot.
662
00:30:38,003 --> 00:30:40,537
Cathy's daughter, amy,
and her husband, ross,
663
00:30:40,606 --> 00:30:42,372
Have potential motives,
664
00:30:42,441 --> 00:30:45,375
Especially when you consider
the tens of thousands of dollars
665
00:30:45,443 --> 00:30:47,444
Of stolen cash
taken from the home.
666
00:30:47,512 --> 00:30:50,247
But did they really
carry out this crime?
667
00:30:50,315 --> 00:30:52,549
Was it one person or two?
668
00:30:52,551 --> 00:30:55,985
It's time to re-create
this complex scene
669
00:30:55,987 --> 00:30:58,621
And try and figure out
how this unfolded
670
00:30:58,690 --> 00:31:00,457
And exactly who was
in that trailer.
671
00:31:01,893 --> 00:31:03,260
You got some recruits, too, huh?
672
00:31:03,328 --> 00:31:04,962
Yes, ma'am. Wayne mills.
673
00:31:05,030 --> 00:31:05,962
- Nice to meet you. I'm kelly.
- Nice to meet you.
674
00:31:06,031 --> 00:31:08,931
- Scotty, who's over here?
- Some of our new hires.
675
00:31:08,933 --> 00:31:11,401
They're recruits to assist
in whatever y'all may need.
676
00:31:11,470 --> 00:31:13,270
Okay. And we have somebody
that can play each victim.
677
00:31:13,338 --> 00:31:14,571
- We do.
- Thank y'all.
678
00:31:14,639 --> 00:31:15,939
- Thank you.
- Really helpful.
679
00:31:16,007 --> 00:31:17,740
So, captain,
you were there that day.
680
00:31:17,742 --> 00:31:19,108
- I was.
- And, scotty, you were there.
681
00:31:19,178 --> 00:31:21,077
- Yes, ma'am.
- Let's go in the house,
682
00:31:21,146 --> 00:31:23,246
In the trailer,
and you kind of orient us.
683
00:31:23,315 --> 00:31:25,415
The scene when I first arrived
684
00:31:25,417 --> 00:31:27,484
Was the most brutal thing
I've ever seen in my life.
685
00:31:27,552 --> 00:31:30,153
Blood everywhere. The smell.
686
00:31:30,222 --> 00:31:31,888
I think about it hard enough,
I can still smell it.
687
00:31:31,956 --> 00:31:35,625
Just a really
strong copper smell.
688
00:31:35,694 --> 00:31:38,795
Everyone that I still talk to
that was there that day,
689
00:31:38,864 --> 00:31:40,731
It was pretty traumatic
for all of us.
690
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:43,900
So, you come in and you walk
straight into the living room.
691
00:31:43,969 --> 00:31:46,770
Off the living room was
the master bedroom to the right.
692
00:31:46,838 --> 00:31:50,307
There's a table with
a large playset for toy cars.
693
00:31:50,375 --> 00:31:53,042
It really jumped out to me
as being out of place
694
00:31:53,112 --> 00:31:55,045
Once we found out
the kids haven't been there
695
00:31:55,113 --> 00:31:56,413
Since at least July 4th.
696
00:31:56,481 --> 00:31:57,547
It looks like
they were preparing
697
00:31:57,616 --> 00:31:58,916
For the children to come over.
698
00:31:58,984 --> 00:32:00,417
- Okay.
- The other thing,
699
00:32:00,485 --> 00:32:03,252
A bucket of Halloween candy
never opened,
700
00:32:03,254 --> 00:32:04,554
But it was right
next to the door.
701
00:32:04,556 --> 00:32:05,955
Siegler: The night
of the murder,
702
00:32:05,957 --> 00:32:08,325
Amy and ross were just
a few hundred feet away
703
00:32:08,393 --> 00:32:11,428
In their trailer
and her kids were out of town.
704
00:32:11,496 --> 00:32:13,796
We know that she had been
keeping her kids away from them
705
00:32:13,866 --> 00:32:15,232
For a couple of months.
706
00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:18,368
But according to witnesses
and these toys,
707
00:32:18,437 --> 00:32:19,836
It looks like mike and cathy
were preparing
708
00:32:19,905 --> 00:32:22,205
To see the kids again soon.
709
00:32:22,274 --> 00:32:24,274
Could amy have made amends
with her family
710
00:32:24,342 --> 00:32:26,976
Right before the murders so they
would let their guard down?
711
00:32:27,046 --> 00:32:29,412
Okay, why don't y'all
start with mike?
712
00:32:29,481 --> 00:32:30,914
He's right here.
713
00:32:33,151 --> 00:32:35,919
Just blood all around him.
714
00:32:35,987 --> 00:32:37,354
And I'll tell you
what struck me is the fact
715
00:32:37,422 --> 00:32:38,689
That it was all in one place.
716
00:32:38,757 --> 00:32:40,657
He obviously didn't make it far.
717
00:32:40,726 --> 00:32:43,626
Barbara was found right here
718
00:32:43,628 --> 00:32:46,229
On top of this corner
of the loveseat.
719
00:32:46,297 --> 00:32:49,967
Violet was just
right behind her.
720
00:32:50,035 --> 00:32:51,601
And they were actually so close
721
00:32:51,603 --> 00:32:53,936
That violet was actually
touching barbara.
722
00:32:54,006 --> 00:32:56,106
So cathy is in here.
723
00:32:56,174 --> 00:32:59,208
We strongly suspect that
at some point she was out here
724
00:32:59,210 --> 00:33:02,045
Because we have footprints
that belong to her.
725
00:33:02,047 --> 00:33:04,314
But as she made her way
into the bedroom,
726
00:33:04,382 --> 00:33:06,450
She fell over top of...
727
00:33:06,518 --> 00:33:08,919
It was a big pillow
and a backpack.
728
00:33:08,987 --> 00:33:12,389
And, scotty, tell cathy where
the holster is in the bedroom.
729
00:33:12,457 --> 00:33:14,524
Hall:
Underneath the bed near her.
730
00:33:14,593 --> 00:33:16,693
Inside of the bedroom
near cathy's body,
731
00:33:16,761 --> 00:33:18,461
Investigators discovered
an empty holster,
732
00:33:18,530 --> 00:33:21,464
Which could have contained
a .38-caliber revolver,
733
00:33:21,533 --> 00:33:24,200
The same caliber of the gun
that was used on the victims.
734
00:33:24,269 --> 00:33:25,735
It raises the possibility
735
00:33:25,804 --> 00:33:27,470
That cathy actually went
into the bedroom
736
00:33:27,472 --> 00:33:28,738
And retrieved the pistol
737
00:33:28,807 --> 00:33:30,673
In order to defend her
and her family,
738
00:33:30,675 --> 00:33:32,042
And it was turned against her
739
00:33:32,110 --> 00:33:33,410
And the other victims
in this crime.
740
00:33:33,478 --> 00:33:36,613
I believe the initial strike
of cathy happened
741
00:33:36,681 --> 00:33:38,381
Outside the room.
742
00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:41,651
I think she went to get the gun,
came back out,
743
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,655
And that's why we got the
footprints this way in blood.
744
00:33:45,724 --> 00:33:49,225
The holster itself had a very
small drop of blood on it.
745
00:33:49,294 --> 00:33:51,260
I think she's bending over it.
746
00:33:51,330 --> 00:33:53,162
Right? And you can see
a void pattern.
747
00:33:53,232 --> 00:33:54,431
That's where the gun comes from.
748
00:33:54,499 --> 00:33:56,133
- Absolutely.
- She's going for it.
749
00:33:56,135 --> 00:33:57,567
I think that just enrages him,
750
00:33:57,636 --> 00:33:59,068
And it gives him
another weapon here.
751
00:33:59,070 --> 00:34:00,837
- You're a marine, right?
- Absolutely.
752
00:34:00,906 --> 00:34:04,141
Can you give us some marine
thoughts on knives and all that?
753
00:34:04,143 --> 00:34:06,076
Marines go through
martial arts training
754
00:34:06,144 --> 00:34:07,444
At parris island.
755
00:34:07,512 --> 00:34:09,579
They get various levels
of knife training
756
00:34:09,648 --> 00:34:11,414
And hand-to-hand combat.
757
00:34:11,482 --> 00:34:14,117
And we know that ross
endured this training.
758
00:34:14,185 --> 00:34:16,153
Would a marine
be expected to be able
759
00:34:16,155 --> 00:34:18,055
To handle multiple people
in that situation?
760
00:34:18,123 --> 00:34:19,822
Absolutely,
especially after having
761
00:34:19,891 --> 00:34:21,057
Marine security guard training.
762
00:34:21,126 --> 00:34:22,759
That is an eight-week program
763
00:34:22,828 --> 00:34:25,862
That teaches marines
to defend embassies.
764
00:34:25,931 --> 00:34:27,263
One of their
training requirements
765
00:34:27,332 --> 00:34:29,198
Is handling multiple assailants
at one time.
766
00:34:29,268 --> 00:34:32,169
It specifically says
you aim for the neck area.
767
00:34:32,171 --> 00:34:33,470
- Wow.
- I went through
768
00:34:33,538 --> 00:34:35,038
The marine corps back in 1997.
769
00:34:35,106 --> 00:34:37,240
I believe with the expertise
that this took place,
770
00:34:37,308 --> 00:34:38,774
I believe it was somebody
771
00:34:38,776 --> 00:34:40,844
That was very comfortable
with an edge weapon.
772
00:34:40,912 --> 00:34:42,812
And a marine fits that category.
773
00:34:42,814 --> 00:34:45,147
This definitely took someone
who took some training,
774
00:34:45,149 --> 00:34:48,585
Had some background
in this type of situation,
775
00:34:48,653 --> 00:34:50,853
And obviously was
very personally related
776
00:34:50,923 --> 00:34:52,089
To the victims.
777
00:34:52,157 --> 00:34:54,324
If you could go back
to the front door
778
00:34:54,392 --> 00:34:56,459
And walk us through
what you think happened.
779
00:34:56,528 --> 00:34:59,863
I think amy has everyone
gathered in here.
780
00:34:59,931 --> 00:35:02,432
Family meeting. The kids
are coming over. I don't know.
781
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:05,535
But everyone's in
the living room waiting on ross.
782
00:35:05,604 --> 00:35:07,804
I think ross
does come to the front door.
783
00:35:07,873 --> 00:35:09,272
I think amy
probably lets him in.
784
00:35:09,341 --> 00:35:11,942
He turns,
locks the door, comes in,
785
00:35:12,010 --> 00:35:13,410
Stabs mike right away.
786
00:35:13,478 --> 00:35:15,778
Mike starts to get up,
787
00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:18,481
Cuts him across the throat.
788
00:35:18,483 --> 00:35:20,517
And then mike goes
to his knees right here.
789
00:35:20,585 --> 00:35:22,685
And he's coming down,
stabbing him here.
790
00:35:22,754 --> 00:35:25,087
That's when barbara
tries to get up to get away.
791
00:35:25,089 --> 00:35:28,458
He hits barbara right here,
taking the earring off.
792
00:35:28,527 --> 00:35:30,127
Cathy gets up,
runs to the bedroom.
793
00:35:30,195 --> 00:35:32,028
Barbara is still getting up,
794
00:35:32,097 --> 00:35:34,364
And that's why we have
so many stab wounds
795
00:35:34,432 --> 00:35:36,199
'cause she's trying
to go this way.
796
00:35:36,268 --> 00:35:39,435
And he's coming behind her,
stabbing her and stabbing her
797
00:35:39,504 --> 00:35:41,137
And slicing her as she goes.
798
00:35:41,139 --> 00:35:43,139
She finally drops here.
799
00:35:43,207 --> 00:35:44,841
I think violet,
at this point, had made it here.
800
00:35:44,910 --> 00:35:48,077
And I think amy
is right here going, "nope."
801
00:35:48,146 --> 00:35:50,012
Amy's stopping her.
802
00:35:50,014 --> 00:35:52,649
So he comes across
really hard with her,
803
00:35:52,717 --> 00:35:54,050
Nearly takes her head off.
804
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:55,685
She goes down.
805
00:35:55,753 --> 00:35:58,421
I think that's when cathy
comes out with the gun.
806
00:35:58,490 --> 00:36:01,491
He grabs her,
stabs her just like that.
807
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,526
Amy takes the gun
out of her hand.
808
00:36:03,595 --> 00:36:05,862
Cathy goes back in the bedroom.
809
00:36:05,931 --> 00:36:08,631
She kind of falls backwards.
She's hurt. She's bleeding.
810
00:36:08,700 --> 00:36:09,866
She trips and falls down.
811
00:36:09,935 --> 00:36:11,568
Amy comes in with the gun.
812
00:36:11,636 --> 00:36:14,270
And ross says, "finish her."
813
00:36:14,272 --> 00:36:16,506
Shoots her twice, close range.
814
00:36:16,574 --> 00:36:18,275
And now amy's worked up,
815
00:36:18,277 --> 00:36:22,278
And so she just comes in
and just shoot, shoot.
816
00:36:22,347 --> 00:36:23,880
Grandma. Pow, pow.
817
00:36:23,948 --> 00:36:26,482
Gun clicks.
That's the end of it.
818
00:36:26,551 --> 00:36:28,451
Spingola: I agree
with sergeant hill.
819
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,053
Though I think
that if it was amy and ross,
820
00:36:31,055 --> 00:36:33,690
It's more likely that ross
used the knife and the gun
821
00:36:33,758 --> 00:36:35,825
While amy simply
corralled everyone.
822
00:36:35,894 --> 00:36:37,594
There's no way to know for sure.
823
00:36:37,662 --> 00:36:40,062
But either way, I agree
that this was a two-person job.
824
00:36:40,132 --> 00:36:41,698
A handler and a hunter.
825
00:36:41,766 --> 00:36:44,701
This is one stone-cold
trained killer, man.
826
00:36:44,769 --> 00:36:46,436
He'd have taken two cops
out in this room here
827
00:36:46,504 --> 00:36:48,605
Before we got a shot off.
828
00:36:48,673 --> 00:36:51,474
I believe this was extremely
quick and extremely clean.
829
00:36:51,542 --> 00:36:53,576
If I'm amy's lawyer, though,
830
00:36:53,645 --> 00:36:56,613
You don't have any hard,
commonsense argument here
831
00:36:56,681 --> 00:36:58,348
To put amy in the room.
832
00:36:58,416 --> 00:37:01,083
This theory
could just be one killer,
833
00:37:01,153 --> 00:37:02,752
If I'm being objective.
834
00:37:02,754 --> 00:37:04,888
This area right here, I think,
is paramount to the case.
835
00:37:04,956 --> 00:37:06,756
The barefoot of cathy
836
00:37:06,758 --> 00:37:08,558
Shows her coming and going
from this bedroom.
837
00:37:08,626 --> 00:37:10,994
The transfer from the asics
is on the floor.
838
00:37:11,062 --> 00:37:12,729
There are
asics speedstar shoes?
839
00:37:12,797 --> 00:37:14,264
Asics speedstar.
840
00:37:14,332 --> 00:37:18,068
Which has also been confirmed
by the asics company
841
00:37:18,136 --> 00:37:21,838
That this is no doubt
this shoe print in the house.
842
00:37:21,906 --> 00:37:23,506
And these shoes
were never found.
843
00:37:23,574 --> 00:37:24,907
Okay.
844
00:37:24,909 --> 00:37:27,443
Along with cathy's
bloody footprint,
845
00:37:27,512 --> 00:37:30,747
Investigators identified
a partial shoe print,
846
00:37:30,815 --> 00:37:34,684
Specifically that of an asics
speedstar running shoe.
847
00:37:34,753 --> 00:37:36,219
The question is,
848
00:37:36,287 --> 00:37:38,054
Which of our suspects
does that belong to?
849
00:37:38,123 --> 00:37:39,723
Thank y'all so much.
850
00:37:39,791 --> 00:37:43,093
It really was special
to do it this way. Thank y'all.
851
00:37:53,737 --> 00:37:55,972
So. I think devlin's here
and he's ready to get started
852
00:37:56,041 --> 00:37:57,640
If y'all are ready.
853
00:37:57,642 --> 00:37:58,808
Okay. Yes, ma'am.
854
00:37:58,877 --> 00:38:00,176
'cause this might take
a little bit.
855
00:38:00,245 --> 00:38:02,411
He's gonna go through it
pretty detailed.
856
00:38:02,481 --> 00:38:05,014
The best part
about investigating a cold case
857
00:38:05,083 --> 00:38:06,315
That's only eight years old,
858
00:38:06,385 --> 00:38:08,584
There are so many more resources
859
00:38:08,653 --> 00:38:11,921
For potential evidence,
including social media.
860
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:15,358
Both of our victims, mike and
cathy scott, and our suspects,
861
00:38:15,427 --> 00:38:19,195
Amy and ross vilardi,
were avid facebook users.
862
00:38:19,264 --> 00:38:21,998
Our digital forensics expert,
eric devlin,
863
00:38:22,066 --> 00:38:25,302
Has been reexamining
their social media data.
864
00:38:25,370 --> 00:38:27,404
All right,
you ready to get going?
865
00:38:27,472 --> 00:38:30,306
- Yes.
- Tons and tons of social media.
866
00:38:30,375 --> 00:38:33,309
Starting out, you see a lot of
communications back and forth
867
00:38:33,377 --> 00:38:35,377
From mike and cathy scott
as well as amy
868
00:38:35,379 --> 00:38:36,613
That seemed to be fairly normal.
869
00:38:36,681 --> 00:38:38,347
So next one here. This is a post
870
00:38:38,417 --> 00:38:40,150
From mike
and cathy scott's account.
871
00:38:40,218 --> 00:38:41,984
"my grandchildren and I."
872
00:38:41,986 --> 00:38:44,353
Just showing family
relationship type of picture.
873
00:38:44,423 --> 00:38:46,323
And this is before the blow-up
'cause it's in may.
874
00:38:46,391 --> 00:38:48,024
Here's where I think
you're starting to see
875
00:38:48,093 --> 00:38:49,458
Where the blowups
starting to occur.
876
00:38:49,528 --> 00:38:51,561
July 9, 2015.
877
00:38:51,563 --> 00:38:54,364
This is amy vilardi
making a public facebook post.
878
00:38:54,432 --> 00:38:56,732
"you can tell the same lies
over and over.
879
00:38:56,802 --> 00:38:58,768
It's never going
to make them true.
880
00:38:58,837 --> 00:39:00,537
You best make sure
that the other party
881
00:39:00,605 --> 00:39:01,971
Can't prove your lies wrong.
882
00:39:01,973 --> 00:39:03,473
Just because you are older
than someone
883
00:39:03,541 --> 00:39:04,907
Doesn't make you right."
884
00:39:04,976 --> 00:39:06,176
And this is the one that people
885
00:39:06,244 --> 00:39:08,077
Are all telling
law enforcement about.
886
00:39:08,146 --> 00:39:10,446
She was talking about mike
and cathy on facebook.
887
00:39:10,515 --> 00:39:11,748
Y'all should go read facebook.
888
00:39:11,816 --> 00:39:13,850
It started with this,
don't you think?
889
00:39:13,918 --> 00:39:15,752
On July 10, 2015,
890
00:39:15,820 --> 00:39:19,055
This is a direct message
from pam isbell to amy vilardi.
891
00:39:19,123 --> 00:39:20,322
Siegler: That's 'cause
she's mike's sister.
892
00:39:20,324 --> 00:39:22,558
Right. "amy, I am very sorry
893
00:39:22,627 --> 00:39:24,393
That things
are not good right now.
894
00:39:24,462 --> 00:39:26,061
I know you are upset,
895
00:39:26,063 --> 00:39:28,331
But I wish you would take
the bad talk off of facebook.
896
00:39:28,399 --> 00:39:29,699
I have no idea
what has happened,
897
00:39:29,768 --> 00:39:31,968
But I do know that words hurt.
898
00:39:32,036 --> 00:39:34,470
Think about the children,
please, before posting things."
899
00:39:34,539 --> 00:39:38,408
Amy vilardi responds, "you have
no idea what he's done to us.
900
00:39:38,476 --> 00:39:40,676
I'm not going
to be bullied by him anymore.
901
00:39:40,745 --> 00:39:42,479
Pam, my mother lies
for him, too.
902
00:39:42,481 --> 00:39:45,247
He will stop
because I am finally done.
903
00:39:45,317 --> 00:39:47,049
He is not my kid's grandfather.
904
00:39:47,051 --> 00:39:49,686
He can never be that
to them again."
905
00:39:49,754 --> 00:39:52,922
So if you could take
that July 10th post right there
906
00:39:52,991 --> 00:39:55,558
And make your best argument
for motive
907
00:39:55,627 --> 00:39:57,727
And the deterioration
of the relationship,
908
00:39:57,795 --> 00:39:59,429
There's your foundation
right there.
909
00:39:59,497 --> 00:40:03,032
On July 16, mike and
cathy scott to amy vilardi--
910
00:40:03,101 --> 00:40:04,667
"your mom and I
want to apologize.
911
00:40:04,736 --> 00:40:06,736
No favors asked or requests.
912
00:40:06,804 --> 00:40:08,872
We have two elderly people
suffering from this.
913
00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:10,239
They have done nothing.
914
00:40:10,308 --> 00:40:12,041
As you all prepare
for your vacation,
915
00:40:12,110 --> 00:40:14,411
We wish you a safe
and enjoyable time."
916
00:40:14,479 --> 00:40:17,780
Trying to mend fences,
build bridges at this point.
917
00:40:17,782 --> 00:40:21,551
These social media posts
further prove what we've heard,
918
00:40:21,619 --> 00:40:25,688
That their feud over the kids
came to a boil in July
919
00:40:25,757 --> 00:40:29,092
And amy was keeping the kids
from mike and cathy.
920
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,094
Amy also posted quotes
about emotional abuse,
921
00:40:32,163 --> 00:40:34,898
Narcissistic parents,
and disrespect.
922
00:40:34,966 --> 00:40:37,767
But more than that,
she posted videos
923
00:40:37,836 --> 00:40:40,370
Of her and ross
arguing with her family.
924
00:40:51,616 --> 00:40:53,149
There's an argument
with her mother, cathy.
925
00:41:02,561 --> 00:41:05,361
What could I do to 'em?
926
00:41:05,429 --> 00:41:09,232
And an argument between ross
and mike's mother, barbara.
927
00:41:10,868 --> 00:41:14,136
I don't know what cathy does.
928
00:41:14,205 --> 00:41:16,973
And that one ends with
a haunting comment from ross.
929
00:41:17,041 --> 00:41:20,844
- Beggars!
- That's right. I'm a beggar.
930
00:41:24,616 --> 00:41:28,284
But the best piece of evidence
might be a facebook message
931
00:41:28,352 --> 00:41:30,920
That mike sent to a coworker
before the murders.
932
00:41:30,989 --> 00:41:33,990
On October 29, 2015,
933
00:41:34,058 --> 00:41:36,493
The account from mike
and cathy scott to aaron luffy.
934
00:41:36,561 --> 00:41:38,361
Facebook image right there.
935
00:41:38,429 --> 00:41:40,630
That's taken directly
from that facebook account.
936
00:41:40,698 --> 00:41:42,732
"you're in the money."
interesting picture.
937
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,367
Two days before the murders,
938
00:41:44,435 --> 00:41:47,236
Mike sent a facebook message
to a coworker
939
00:41:47,305 --> 00:41:49,371
With a photo of some cash,
940
00:41:49,441 --> 00:41:53,642
Cash we believe was stolen
from his home by his killer...
941
00:41:53,644 --> 00:41:56,078
My understanding
is y'all found $100 bills.
942
00:41:56,147 --> 00:41:58,347
Siegler: ...In the trailer
where amy and ross lived.
943
00:41:58,416 --> 00:42:00,216
- It was in a safe.
- Devlin: Hold on one second.
944
00:42:00,285 --> 00:42:01,751
Let me get to...
945
00:42:01,819 --> 00:42:04,120
So that's the picture
y'all took of the money
946
00:42:04,188 --> 00:42:05,822
Y'all grabbed from it.
947
00:42:05,890 --> 00:42:09,391
And you actually see
the exact same serial number.
948
00:42:09,393 --> 00:42:12,228
Anderson county investigators
inventoried the cash
949
00:42:12,297 --> 00:42:13,662
And photographed it
that they recovered
950
00:42:13,732 --> 00:42:16,599
From amy and ross's trailer
after the murders.
951
00:42:16,668 --> 00:42:20,136
And the serial numbers
on their $100 bills
952
00:42:20,204 --> 00:42:23,005
Matched mike's money
that he posted on facebook.
953
00:42:23,074 --> 00:42:25,275
That's proof that amy and ross
954
00:42:25,343 --> 00:42:28,077
Had mike's money
in their trailer.
955
00:42:28,146 --> 00:42:30,413
That's absolutely amazing.
956
00:42:30,481 --> 00:42:33,049
Have you ever had that, eric,
where you can prove the money
957
00:42:33,117 --> 00:42:36,418
From the dead victim's house
is in your suspect's hands
958
00:42:36,488 --> 00:42:37,954
'cause the serial numbers match?
959
00:42:38,022 --> 00:42:40,122
I never have
a picture good enough
960
00:42:40,191 --> 00:42:41,824
That I could read
the serial number on.
961
00:42:41,892 --> 00:42:43,292
Because that shows you
962
00:42:43,361 --> 00:42:46,663
Your relationship deterioration,
your motive.
963
00:42:46,665 --> 00:42:48,264
That was a treasure trove.
964
00:42:48,332 --> 00:42:50,266
Could a defense lawyer
make the argument
965
00:42:50,335 --> 00:42:53,769
That mike gave that money
to amy and ross? Possibly.
966
00:42:53,838 --> 00:42:56,172
Which is why we have
a lot more work to do,
967
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,074
And we're just getting started.
968
00:42:59,910 --> 00:43:01,811
Next time on "cold justice"...
969
00:43:01,879 --> 00:43:04,613
The military knife,
it was large like this,
970
00:43:04,615 --> 00:43:06,582
Including the blade.
971
00:43:06,584 --> 00:43:08,851
A chunk of change comes in
right after that.
972
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,553
What's he buying?
973
00:43:10,622 --> 00:43:12,955
There's all their calls always
hitting off of this tower,
974
00:43:13,024 --> 00:43:14,590
Which is covering both trailers.
975
00:43:14,659 --> 00:43:16,492
Here's a message that I found
particularly important.
976
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,795
She says, "hey, babe,
we need to go ahead and run."
977
00:43:19,797 --> 00:43:21,830
We know what happened.
We're about to prove it.
978
00:43:21,832 --> 00:43:23,866
You don't wanna roll the dice
on this, I'm telling you.
979
00:43:23,934 --> 00:43:26,068
You actually have the video
of where ross went that night?
980
00:43:26,137 --> 00:43:27,970
- Yes.
- Okay.
981
00:43:27,972 --> 00:43:30,506
Of him walking out a store.
This is the camera at the door.
982
00:43:30,575 --> 00:43:32,141
So you notice right here.
983
00:43:32,209 --> 00:43:33,809
Nice. Nice.
984
00:43:33,811 --> 00:43:35,978
- If I decided to take a deal...
- Right.
985
00:43:35,980 --> 00:43:38,715
...Mine is gonna be "better"
than amy's
986
00:43:38,717 --> 00:43:40,349
'cause I came
to the trough first, right?
987
00:43:40,351 --> 00:43:42,651
We're not the ones
who put you on this predicament.
988
00:43:42,653 --> 00:43:44,087
It's time to put some type
of an end to this.