1 00:00:08,383 --> 00:00:11,219 Hi, well, for those of you who don't know me, 2 00:00:11,636 --> 00:00:13,722 I'm Jermain. 3 00:00:13,805 --> 00:00:17,600 This is now going to be my vlog about me. 4 00:00:17,726 --> 00:00:23,064 None of this is scripted, nothing... all real. 5 00:00:23,189 --> 00:00:25,400 Bye, see you. 6 00:00:25,483 --> 00:00:28,570 WOMAN: * This is the beginning * 7 00:00:33,116 --> 00:00:36,327 * This is the beginning * 8 00:00:36,411 --> 00:00:38,747 KELLY SIEGLER: This case is only seven years old. 9 00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:40,373 I was kind of nervous 10 00:00:40,457 --> 00:00:42,584 because so many people here 11 00:00:42,709 --> 00:00:43,918 knew about the case and they've done 12 00:00:44,002 --> 00:00:45,253 some podcasts on it. 13 00:00:45,378 --> 00:00:46,671 There's been some TV shows about it, 14 00:00:46,838 --> 00:00:49,841 so the case is a big deal here. 15 00:00:49,966 --> 00:00:53,136 Jermain Charlo was 23 years old when she went missing. 16 00:00:53,178 --> 00:00:54,971 STEVE SPIGNOLA: She had a house on the reservation 17 00:00:55,096 --> 00:00:57,307 because she was tribal. 18 00:00:57,390 --> 00:00:59,809 KELLY: She had two sons, and she was separated 19 00:00:59,934 --> 00:01:01,978 from the father of her children. 20 00:01:02,103 --> 00:01:05,690 She was very pretty, she was dating a new guy, 21 00:01:05,774 --> 00:01:07,650 she seemed very independent. 22 00:01:07,776 --> 00:01:11,154 Jermain was beautiful, vibrant and creative. 23 00:01:11,237 --> 00:01:13,365 She liked to dress up and go out with her friends, 24 00:01:13,448 --> 00:01:16,743 but she also liked to go outdoors and go hiking 25 00:01:16,826 --> 00:01:18,286 and fishing and get dirty. 26 00:01:18,411 --> 00:01:20,038 She loved being a mom. 27 00:01:20,121 --> 00:01:22,874 She was also very excited about her potential new job 28 00:01:22,957 --> 00:01:25,460 of fighting forest fires for the tribe. 29 00:01:25,543 --> 00:01:29,839 But in June of 2018, she tragically went missing. 30 00:01:29,964 --> 00:01:31,883 STEVE: She was an adult at the time, 31 00:01:32,008 --> 00:01:33,677 so when she didn't return home, 32 00:01:33,718 --> 00:01:36,262 I don't think it set off a lot of red flags right away. 33 00:01:36,388 --> 00:01:39,182 It was the fact that she wasn't on social media, 34 00:01:39,265 --> 00:01:40,308 nobody heard from her. 35 00:01:40,392 --> 00:01:42,394 On Friday, June 15, 2018, 36 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:44,896 Jermain was hanging out with her ex-boyfriend. 37 00:01:44,979 --> 00:01:47,857 A surveillance camera captured her behind a bar, walking off, 38 00:01:47,941 --> 00:01:50,568 and that's the last known video of Jermain alive. 39 00:01:50,652 --> 00:01:52,112 Seven years later, 40 00:01:52,237 --> 00:01:54,072 investigators are still looking for her remains 41 00:01:54,155 --> 00:01:55,907 and answers as to what actually happened that night. 42 00:01:57,659 --> 00:02:01,329 They keep thinking, give it just a little more time 43 00:02:01,413 --> 00:02:03,039 and maybe some hunter, 44 00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:06,918 some scavenger will turn up some body pieces. 45 00:02:07,002 --> 00:02:10,296 Sadly, indigenous women are victims of violent crime 46 00:02:10,380 --> 00:02:12,007 at an alarmingly high rate, 47 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:15,301 with over 80 percent experiencing 48 00:02:15,385 --> 00:02:16,761 violence in their lifetime, 49 00:02:16,845 --> 00:02:19,848 and over 6,000 indigenous women 50 00:02:19,973 --> 00:02:21,933 are missing nationwide. 51 00:02:22,058 --> 00:02:24,936 Jermain's case has been a rallying cry 52 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:26,980 for bringing attention to the issue. 53 00:02:27,022 --> 00:02:29,566 It's gone unsolved long enough. 54 00:02:29,649 --> 00:02:31,401 I think it's every parent's worst nightmare. 55 00:02:31,484 --> 00:02:32,527 Yeah. 56 00:02:34,237 --> 00:02:36,865 * This is the beginning * 57 00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:42,162 - KELLY: Hi. - I'm Guy, Baker. 58 00:02:42,287 --> 00:02:43,747 - Steve Spignola... - Nice to meet you. 59 00:02:43,913 --> 00:02:45,373 - Rebekah. - I'm Kelly. 60 00:02:45,457 --> 00:02:46,750 - Nice to meet you. - How are you? 61 00:02:46,875 --> 00:02:48,168 REBEKAH: Nice to meet you, Steve. 62 00:02:48,251 --> 00:02:49,878 A lot of people know about this case. 63 00:02:50,045 --> 00:02:53,089 Oh, yeah, Jermain Charlo's name is very well known. 64 00:02:53,131 --> 00:02:55,467 This is one of the two cases that was at the forefront 65 00:02:55,550 --> 00:02:58,553 of the Missing and Murdered Indigenous People movement 66 00:02:58,678 --> 00:02:59,971 that kind of started locally, 67 00:03:00,096 --> 00:03:01,931 and then across the state of Montana. 68 00:03:02,015 --> 00:03:04,893 It's been gaining traction over the last six, seven years, 69 00:03:04,976 --> 00:03:07,395 and it's all over the United States. 70 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:08,938 Wow. Well, let's go start working. 71 00:03:09,022 --> 00:03:11,066 When I got this case back in 2018, 72 00:03:11,149 --> 00:03:13,693 there did seem to be some added pressure 73 00:03:13,735 --> 00:03:15,487 because of the awareness around her being 74 00:03:15,528 --> 00:03:17,072 a missing Native American. 75 00:03:17,113 --> 00:03:19,449 Obviously, I never met Jermain, but, you know, 76 00:03:19,532 --> 00:03:21,117 all the time I put into this investigation, 77 00:03:21,242 --> 00:03:22,577 I feel like I know her. 78 00:03:22,660 --> 00:03:24,829 So it's been very important to me 79 00:03:24,913 --> 00:03:28,124 to keep Jermain Charlo relevant and not just 80 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:29,918 to be forgotten like so many other 81 00:03:30,001 --> 00:03:32,420 Native American females across Montana. 82 00:03:33,672 --> 00:03:35,590 Jermain is only 23. 83 00:03:35,757 --> 00:03:37,175 She grew up here? 84 00:03:37,258 --> 00:03:38,593 GUY: She grew up in a small community 85 00:03:38,635 --> 00:03:40,720 up on the Flathead Indian Reservation, 86 00:03:40,845 --> 00:03:43,598 which is about a half an hour north of Missoula... 87 00:03:45,725 --> 00:03:47,644 How old were her little boys? 88 00:03:47,727 --> 00:03:49,312 GUY: Two and four. 89 00:03:49,396 --> 00:03:52,774 Jermain had two boys with Michael DeFrance. 90 00:03:52,857 --> 00:03:56,486 They had met when he was 16 and she was 14. 91 00:03:56,611 --> 00:03:58,988 They were together for several years. 92 00:03:59,030 --> 00:04:03,618 They had the two children, but by the fall of 2017, 93 00:04:03,702 --> 00:04:05,078 they weren't together. 94 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,538 They were seeing other people, 95 00:04:06,621 --> 00:04:08,915 but she's also still hanging out with Michael. 96 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,834 So, Detective Baker, 97 00:04:10,917 --> 00:04:12,669 we can tell from reading your offense report 98 00:04:12,794 --> 00:04:15,422 how much you put into this case. 99 00:04:15,505 --> 00:04:17,007 Where do you want to start? 100 00:04:17,132 --> 00:04:20,343 On Friday night, the 15th of June 2018, 101 00:04:20,468 --> 00:04:22,345 Jermain Charlo called Michael to see 102 00:04:22,470 --> 00:04:24,472 if he wanted to go out. 103 00:04:24,556 --> 00:04:26,725 They meet up, downtown Missoula. 104 00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:29,102 They go to three or four bars. 105 00:04:29,269 --> 00:04:32,689 They were documented on video surveillance 106 00:04:32,814 --> 00:04:35,066 in the alley behind the Badlander bar. 107 00:04:35,191 --> 00:04:38,820 She was talking to a couple guys that she knew. 108 00:04:38,903 --> 00:04:41,281 After a short conversation, Michael and Jermain 109 00:04:41,322 --> 00:04:43,616 are seen walking eastbound in the alley 110 00:04:43,783 --> 00:04:46,202 at around midnight, they walk out of view, 111 00:04:46,286 --> 00:04:48,747 and they go to another bar, 112 00:04:48,830 --> 00:04:51,708 and then Michael later tells the family 113 00:04:51,833 --> 00:04:53,418 that he dropped Jermain off, 114 00:04:53,501 --> 00:04:58,381 and so, Jermain is unaccounted for on Saturday, Sunday, 115 00:04:58,548 --> 00:05:00,842 and she has an appointment 116 00:05:00,884 --> 00:05:04,179 for a wildland firefighter job on Monday. 117 00:05:04,346 --> 00:05:07,223 She doesn't show up for that-- that was unlike Jermain. 118 00:05:07,265 --> 00:05:10,435 She communicated with her family and friends routinely 119 00:05:10,518 --> 00:05:13,563 and, you know, her boys were very important to her. 120 00:05:13,688 --> 00:05:15,982 So she had no reason to become missing 121 00:05:16,107 --> 00:05:17,692 on her own volition. 122 00:05:17,776 --> 00:05:19,527 The family then reports her missing 123 00:05:19,652 --> 00:05:21,654 to the Missoula Police Department. 124 00:05:21,738 --> 00:05:24,449 There were community searches going on 125 00:05:24,532 --> 00:05:26,910 and so many people were looking for Jermain in that weekend 126 00:05:26,993 --> 00:05:28,787 and the week after she disappeared. 127 00:05:28,912 --> 00:05:30,413 I don't know how many searches have been done 128 00:05:30,497 --> 00:05:33,375 over the seven years, but it's been dozens. 129 00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:36,252 We've been very diligent to follow up 130 00:05:36,294 --> 00:05:38,338 each and every lead. 131 00:05:38,421 --> 00:05:41,216 We've done countless searches. 132 00:05:41,299 --> 00:05:43,385 KELLY: What kind of land? 133 00:05:43,426 --> 00:05:46,596 GUY: Mountainous, forested, and reservation. 134 00:05:46,721 --> 00:05:49,099 Hundreds of miles of mountain. 135 00:05:49,182 --> 00:05:51,518 - KELLY: It looks helpless. - It's been very frustrating. 136 00:05:51,601 --> 00:05:53,520 KELLY: While multiple attempts 137 00:05:53,561 --> 00:05:55,271 to find Jermain's body came up empty, 138 00:05:55,355 --> 00:05:58,942 the police continued to look into every lead that came up. 139 00:05:58,983 --> 00:06:02,320 Jermain had recently started dating a new guy named Jacob 140 00:06:02,362 --> 00:06:06,157 who was over 150 miles away that weekend visiting family, 141 00:06:06,282 --> 00:06:09,244 and he was immediately cleared out as a suspect. 142 00:06:09,327 --> 00:06:12,288 So, at some point, you start to get 143 00:06:12,372 --> 00:06:14,916 all these other calls and tips and leads. 144 00:06:15,041 --> 00:06:16,543 - GUY: Yeah. - KELLY: We can start 145 00:06:16,626 --> 00:06:18,920 with rumors, unknown, theories. 146 00:06:19,004 --> 00:06:21,297 GUY: The sex trafficking aspect of it 147 00:06:21,381 --> 00:06:23,216 was considered early on. 148 00:06:23,258 --> 00:06:24,426 Missoula County Sheriff's Department 149 00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:25,844 had talked to an inmate, 150 00:06:26,011 --> 00:06:28,054 and she had told of an incident 151 00:06:28,179 --> 00:06:31,933 in which she and another female were over at a trap house 152 00:06:32,017 --> 00:06:34,269 and a couple of males came over and talked about 153 00:06:34,352 --> 00:06:35,979 purchasing a female. 154 00:06:36,104 --> 00:06:37,647 We then started getting information 155 00:06:37,689 --> 00:06:41,026 by these gang members out of Washington who were 156 00:06:41,109 --> 00:06:44,571 distributing narcotics in the reservation area. 157 00:06:44,654 --> 00:06:46,948 - KELLY: Wow. - Just a lot of rumors. 158 00:06:47,032 --> 00:06:49,868 But I was open-minded to look at everything that came in 159 00:06:49,951 --> 00:06:51,161 and then try to run it down, 160 00:06:51,286 --> 00:06:52,662 and did not find anything 161 00:06:52,787 --> 00:06:54,748 corroborating what their claims are 162 00:06:54,789 --> 00:06:58,460 and could verify that they didn't happen. 163 00:06:58,543 --> 00:07:00,837 STEVE: The Missoula Police Department spent 164 00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:03,131 countless hours running down every lead in this case, 165 00:07:03,214 --> 00:07:05,175 and none produced a viable suspect. 166 00:07:05,258 --> 00:07:07,469 Well, we need to consider all possibilities. 167 00:07:07,552 --> 00:07:09,054 The prime suspect continues to be 168 00:07:09,179 --> 00:07:11,181 the last known person to see Jermain, 169 00:07:11,348 --> 00:07:15,310 her ex-boyfriend and father of her children, Michael DeFrance. 170 00:07:15,352 --> 00:07:17,645 KELLY: Michael DeFrance, is he also tribal? 171 00:07:17,729 --> 00:07:21,191 His father is Native American and his mother is Caucasian. 172 00:07:21,274 --> 00:07:23,485 KELLY: Okay, so then, what's going on in the world 173 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:25,195 of Michael and Jermain? 174 00:07:25,278 --> 00:07:26,988 Start with the beginning of the relationship. 175 00:07:27,113 --> 00:07:28,448 - It was abusive, right? - GUY: Yeah. 176 00:07:28,531 --> 00:07:30,992 - How abusive? - There was an incident 177 00:07:31,034 --> 00:07:34,662 documented by law enforcement of physical abuse 178 00:07:34,704 --> 00:07:37,665 and he was arrested for domestic violence. 179 00:07:37,791 --> 00:07:39,626 KELLY: What about temper? 180 00:07:39,709 --> 00:07:42,045 I asked him if he had a temper, and I think he said he didn't. 181 00:07:42,128 --> 00:07:44,297 KELLY: Okay, so, let's talk about that night. 182 00:07:44,381 --> 00:07:46,049 GUY: When I talked to him, I took him in my car 183 00:07:46,132 --> 00:07:48,718 and I wanted him to show me the exact route he went, 184 00:07:48,802 --> 00:07:50,303 so we'd lock him into a story. 185 00:07:50,345 --> 00:07:52,055 He took me from the downtown area 186 00:07:52,180 --> 00:07:53,765 down to a neighborhood. 187 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:55,517 He said he dropped Jermain off. 188 00:07:55,642 --> 00:07:56,935 He says that she got out 189 00:07:57,060 --> 00:07:58,603 and walked into the darkness. 190 00:07:58,645 --> 00:08:00,355 That was last he saw her. 191 00:08:00,438 --> 00:08:02,941 You did four interviews with him. 192 00:08:02,982 --> 00:08:04,484 Yeah, he was cooperative. 193 00:08:04,526 --> 00:08:06,653 KELLY: This is a no body case. 194 00:08:06,778 --> 00:08:09,531 The key to our investigation will be understanding 195 00:08:09,572 --> 00:08:12,409 Jermain and Michael's relationship and seeing 196 00:08:12,492 --> 00:08:15,412 if there are any inconsistencies in his story. 197 00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:18,039 We also need to get a clear understanding 198 00:08:18,123 --> 00:08:20,542 of the cell phone activity in this case. 199 00:08:20,625 --> 00:08:22,377 Hopefully all that can help us determine 200 00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:24,713 if Michael DeFrance is involved, 201 00:08:24,796 --> 00:08:27,465 or if there is some other unknown suspect 202 00:08:27,549 --> 00:08:29,801 responsible for Jermain's disappearance. 203 00:08:31,845 --> 00:08:35,015 To be honest, I live in a camper, 204 00:08:35,098 --> 00:08:37,559 and I do have a boyfriend. 205 00:08:37,642 --> 00:08:39,227 It's who I live with, 206 00:08:39,352 --> 00:08:42,063 and my family is not happy at all, 207 00:08:42,230 --> 00:08:44,691 but hey, reality. 208 00:08:44,774 --> 00:08:47,819 WOMAN: * When I hear our song * 209 00:08:47,902 --> 00:08:49,529 * I feel my heart drop * 210 00:08:49,571 --> 00:08:54,159 * Everything that I've held is gone * 211 00:08:54,284 --> 00:08:57,328 * I fell in pieces when you were... * 212 00:08:57,412 --> 00:08:59,956 KELLY: Jermain's mom was kind of in and out of her life 213 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,083 when she was younger, so Jermain was mostly raised 214 00:09:02,167 --> 00:09:04,419 by her grandmother Vicki 215 00:09:04,502 --> 00:09:06,463 and by her aunts, Dani and Valenda. 216 00:09:06,546 --> 00:09:08,298 - GUY: Hi, Dani. - Hey, Guy, good to see you. 217 00:09:08,381 --> 00:09:10,508 GUY: Yeah, good to see you, this is Kelly. 218 00:09:10,592 --> 00:09:12,093 KELLY: Unfortunately, her grandmother Vicki 219 00:09:12,135 --> 00:09:14,721 passed away two years ago on the fifth anniversary 220 00:09:14,804 --> 00:09:16,264 of Jermain's disappearance, 221 00:09:16,431 --> 00:09:19,434 but we are going to get to talk to Dani and Valenda, 222 00:09:19,517 --> 00:09:21,561 and they have very much continued 223 00:09:21,603 --> 00:09:23,772 this fight for justice for Jermain. 224 00:09:25,565 --> 00:09:26,983 DANI: Jermain would've been 30 this year. 225 00:09:27,067 --> 00:09:29,361 Her mom was a teenage mother when she had her, 226 00:09:29,486 --> 00:09:31,821 so we did a lot of babysitting, 227 00:09:31,905 --> 00:09:35,450 and as we got older, she'd live with us off and on. 228 00:09:35,533 --> 00:09:37,827 She just was a joy to be around. 229 00:09:37,994 --> 00:09:40,538 Jermain was funny and fun, 230 00:09:40,622 --> 00:09:43,041 a good mother, an artist. 231 00:09:43,166 --> 00:09:45,418 She had a sense of style that's unmatched. 232 00:09:45,502 --> 00:09:48,296 She could wear every style of clothing and pull it off, 233 00:09:48,338 --> 00:09:50,423 so she could be dressed like a cowgirl one day 234 00:09:50,507 --> 00:09:52,092 and goth the next and yeah, 235 00:09:52,258 --> 00:09:54,928 just, just stunning in anything she wore, 236 00:09:55,011 --> 00:09:56,179 she was beautiful. 237 00:09:56,304 --> 00:09:57,889 She was always so silly 238 00:09:57,972 --> 00:09:59,683 and she just shared that happiness, 239 00:09:59,766 --> 00:10:03,728 that love was everywhere and you could feel it. 240 00:10:05,271 --> 00:10:08,650 You know, we miss her, and there's so much life 241 00:10:08,733 --> 00:10:09,776 she's missed out on. 242 00:10:15,949 --> 00:10:18,076 KELLY: Were you around, or what was going on when, 243 00:10:18,159 --> 00:10:20,078 when she met Michael DeFrance? 244 00:10:20,161 --> 00:10:21,746 DANI: Oh, gosh, Michael was 245 00:10:21,871 --> 00:10:23,665 the new cute boy in the community. 246 00:10:23,748 --> 00:10:27,585 They were young and they ended up getting together. 247 00:10:27,669 --> 00:10:30,463 KELLY: When was the first time you noticed that things 248 00:10:30,588 --> 00:10:32,924 weren't the perfect little relationship 249 00:10:33,008 --> 00:10:35,135 between Jermain and Michael? 250 00:10:35,218 --> 00:10:37,429 DANI: We knew the abuse was happening. 251 00:10:37,512 --> 00:10:41,850 She allowed a lot of negative behavior and justified it 252 00:10:41,891 --> 00:10:45,645 with that need for this picture-perfect family 253 00:10:45,729 --> 00:10:47,355 that she'd always dreamt of. 254 00:10:47,439 --> 00:10:49,441 Her and Michael end up, you know, 255 00:10:49,524 --> 00:10:52,277 separating because Michael was seeing another female. 256 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,240 They ended up in a custody case, which went really bad. 257 00:10:57,282 --> 00:10:59,576 The way she'd explained it to me was more or less, 258 00:10:59,617 --> 00:11:02,996 he told them I was crazy because I'm on anti-anxiety meds 259 00:11:03,079 --> 00:11:05,582 and depression medications, and I'm just trying 260 00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:08,793 to help myself, and the judge believed him 261 00:11:08,918 --> 00:11:11,629 and they gave him full custody, and she was 262 00:11:11,713 --> 00:11:14,924 just shattered. 263 00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:17,761 KELLY: So then, right before she goes missing, 264 00:11:17,802 --> 00:11:21,056 what do you know about her relationship with Michael, then? 265 00:11:21,097 --> 00:11:23,099 Oh, gosh, me and her were back and forth 266 00:11:23,141 --> 00:11:24,893 on the phone a lot. 267 00:11:24,934 --> 00:11:26,936 In that year and a half that they were broke up, 268 00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:28,688 they were hooking up. 269 00:11:28,772 --> 00:11:31,900 She's trying to be his friend for the sake of the boys, 270 00:11:31,983 --> 00:11:33,568 and Michael's not letting Jermain 271 00:11:33,651 --> 00:11:35,487 visit the boys, anyways, right? 272 00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:37,572 Did you ever see anything where he's also 273 00:11:37,614 --> 00:11:41,117 in the middle of her business with other men? 274 00:11:41,201 --> 00:11:43,411 - He was so jealous. - Talk about all that. 275 00:11:43,495 --> 00:11:44,913 And if she talked to another guy, 276 00:11:44,954 --> 00:11:47,499 she was a whore and she just couldn't 277 00:11:47,582 --> 00:11:51,503 do anything independently, even after the separation. 278 00:11:52,879 --> 00:11:55,298 KELLY: Dani gave us a great 279 00:11:55,382 --> 00:11:58,510 description of Jermain's relationship with Michael-- 280 00:11:58,635 --> 00:12:01,221 how they met, how it evolved, 281 00:12:01,262 --> 00:12:03,306 how and why she lost her kids, 282 00:12:03,390 --> 00:12:06,351 and how he was using those kids to manipulate her. 283 00:12:06,434 --> 00:12:09,145 It sounds like Jermain was ready to move on, 284 00:12:09,187 --> 00:12:11,272 but Michael was not. 285 00:12:11,398 --> 00:12:15,235 We really failed her on that end when she was young 286 00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:18,405 by not having that stability for her. 287 00:12:19,823 --> 00:12:23,576 Like I said, I was 12 years old right, when she was born, 288 00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:26,871 and so, you know, it's so young trying to give guidance. 289 00:12:26,913 --> 00:12:30,959 It wasn't easy, I just always wish I could have done more, 290 00:12:31,084 --> 00:12:32,711 would have been better. 291 00:12:32,836 --> 00:12:34,921 She may not have been in that situation 292 00:12:34,963 --> 00:12:37,424 where she felt that need to be loved 293 00:12:37,507 --> 00:12:40,760 in such a way from somebody who was hurting her. 294 00:12:40,885 --> 00:12:43,888 We failed her as a family, we failed her. 295 00:12:43,972 --> 00:12:45,974 That's hard to live with, 296 00:12:46,057 --> 00:12:48,852 that's really hard to live with. 297 00:13:02,782 --> 00:13:04,659 KELLY: On cases like this where there's no body, 298 00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:08,538 cops are told by prosecutors and kind of trained, 299 00:13:08,621 --> 00:13:10,373 find the body and you're good, 300 00:13:10,415 --> 00:13:13,835 but there comes a point where you gotta let that part go 301 00:13:13,877 --> 00:13:16,379 and look at what else you had, you know? 302 00:13:16,463 --> 00:13:20,633 We're investigating the 2018 disappearance of young mother, 303 00:13:20,675 --> 00:13:22,302 Jermain Charlo. 304 00:13:22,385 --> 00:13:24,471 Since her body has never been recovered, 305 00:13:24,596 --> 00:13:28,475 the challenge here is not ever being able 306 00:13:28,516 --> 00:13:30,894 to examine what could potentially be 307 00:13:30,935 --> 00:13:32,479 the best forensic evidence. 308 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,606 So the circumstantial evidence 309 00:13:34,731 --> 00:13:36,816 needs to be that much more compelling. 310 00:13:36,941 --> 00:13:39,027 KELLY: Hello, hello, there. 311 00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:40,528 Hello, pretty boys. Good morning. 312 00:13:40,653 --> 00:13:41,738 KELLY: That means hitting the streets 313 00:13:41,863 --> 00:13:43,281 and talking to witnesses. 314 00:13:43,323 --> 00:13:44,741 So you got handprints? 315 00:13:44,783 --> 00:13:46,451 That's the first handprint, 316 00:13:46,534 --> 00:13:47,911 and then we were in year five, so I added four more, 317 00:13:47,994 --> 00:13:48,995 and I'm like, well, I need to go get two more 318 00:13:49,079 --> 00:13:50,372 because we're in year seven. 319 00:13:50,413 --> 00:13:52,624 - You got one for every year. - Yeah. 320 00:13:52,707 --> 00:13:55,877 The red handprint is a symbol of the MMIP, 321 00:13:56,002 --> 00:13:59,381 the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Persons movement, 322 00:13:59,422 --> 00:14:02,467 representing solidarity for the victim. 323 00:14:04,219 --> 00:14:06,054 GUY: We just want to talk about 324 00:14:06,137 --> 00:14:08,723 domestic type stuff between Jermain and Michael, so. 325 00:14:08,765 --> 00:14:12,227 ZACH: Yeah, I had a very strong feeling for him. 326 00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:16,189 I don't use the word "hate" a lot, but I, I hated that guy 327 00:14:16,231 --> 00:14:18,274 just because of what he put Jermain through, 328 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,235 put those boys through. 329 00:14:20,276 --> 00:14:22,612 He was very controlling, down to you know, 330 00:14:22,654 --> 00:14:24,114 what the boys were wearing, 331 00:14:24,239 --> 00:14:26,116 you know, what she was allowed to dress like. 332 00:14:26,199 --> 00:14:28,576 He had to be in control a hundred percent. 333 00:14:28,618 --> 00:14:31,287 Even when they were quote-unquote "broken up," 334 00:14:31,329 --> 00:14:33,206 you know, if somebody were to comment on a photo 335 00:14:33,331 --> 00:14:35,250 on her Facebook or something like that, 336 00:14:35,375 --> 00:14:37,794 he'd be right there, underneath the comment thing, 337 00:14:37,877 --> 00:14:39,504 you know, "Why are you saying that?" 338 00:14:39,629 --> 00:14:41,589 It was that classic, 339 00:14:41,673 --> 00:14:45,343 "If I can't have you, nobody else can" mentality. 340 00:14:45,385 --> 00:14:48,263 - GUY: Well, thank you, Zach. - KELLY: Thank you very much. 341 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:52,434 GUY: Do you have a temper? 342 00:14:57,397 --> 00:15:00,108 Do you lose your temper sometimes? 343 00:15:00,233 --> 00:15:02,610 Never, or sometimes, or hardly ever? 344 00:15:04,946 --> 00:15:06,448 GUY: Okay. 345 00:15:07,991 --> 00:15:09,617 There's always one or two of those cases 346 00:15:09,701 --> 00:15:11,202 that hang around the back of your head, you know? 347 00:15:11,286 --> 00:15:13,955 - Yeah. - Bugs the [bleep] out of you. 348 00:15:13,997 --> 00:15:16,541 STEVE: I've seen all types of motives for homicides-- 349 00:15:16,583 --> 00:15:18,376 greed, revenge, money-- 350 00:15:18,501 --> 00:15:19,878 but not many bring out the extreme anger 351 00:15:20,003 --> 00:15:21,546 such as jealousy and lust. 352 00:15:21,629 --> 00:15:24,382 It's the most personal and clearly the most passionate. 353 00:15:24,466 --> 00:15:25,633 GUY: Hi, Jocelyn. 354 00:15:25,717 --> 00:15:27,427 This is my partner today, Steve. 355 00:15:27,510 --> 00:15:29,721 But is that what we're dealing with in this case? 356 00:15:29,804 --> 00:15:31,097 Me and Jermain have known each other 357 00:15:31,139 --> 00:15:33,266 since we were like, five years old. 358 00:15:33,308 --> 00:15:34,434 GUY: You and her are still friends 359 00:15:34,517 --> 00:15:36,728 when Michael and her meet? 360 00:15:36,811 --> 00:15:39,272 I think being just, you know, 361 00:15:39,314 --> 00:15:40,732 the little, ignorant [bleep] I was, 362 00:15:40,815 --> 00:15:42,859 I was just-- "You're with a white guy?" 363 00:15:42,942 --> 00:15:44,861 What the hell are you doing with that guy?" 364 00:15:44,986 --> 00:15:46,279 I didn't like it. 365 00:15:46,321 --> 00:15:48,323 It's more than just race with that guy, it was... 366 00:15:48,406 --> 00:15:50,658 What was it about it you didn't like? 367 00:15:50,742 --> 00:15:53,411 He was too shadowing of Jermain. 368 00:15:53,453 --> 00:15:54,954 He literally had to hear 369 00:15:55,038 --> 00:15:57,540 every conversation that, you know, me and her had. 370 00:15:57,624 --> 00:16:00,502 He had to be over her goddamn shoulder like, 371 00:16:00,585 --> 00:16:03,922 just he would not leave her side. 372 00:16:03,963 --> 00:16:05,840 There were times where I did have to run out 373 00:16:05,924 --> 00:16:07,467 to get Jermain out of a situation 374 00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:10,095 - that she called me for. - Yeah, tell me about that. 375 00:16:10,178 --> 00:16:11,930 He was putting his hands on her. 376 00:16:12,013 --> 00:16:13,390 He was like, you know, grabbing her arm, 377 00:16:13,515 --> 00:16:16,226 he was pushing her and I'm like, why is this, 378 00:16:16,309 --> 00:16:19,479 this man even still in the picture, Jermain? 379 00:16:19,604 --> 00:16:22,524 But every time I made it out there, she was always, 380 00:16:22,649 --> 00:16:24,317 "I am so sorry I wasted your time." 381 00:16:24,401 --> 00:16:26,236 - Every time, every time. - Yes, yes, every time. 382 00:16:26,319 --> 00:16:29,447 And it just turned into him trying to be all, 383 00:16:29,531 --> 00:16:32,325 like, "If you keep this up, bitch, I will do more." 384 00:16:32,367 --> 00:16:34,577 - What do you mean, "do more"? - After that. 385 00:16:34,619 --> 00:16:37,872 That's when she said that she was fed up with this. 386 00:16:37,914 --> 00:16:41,501 She was tired of hiding her face with makeup. 387 00:16:41,626 --> 00:16:45,046 Jermain would use makeup to cover-- 388 00:16:45,171 --> 00:16:48,633 I assume you were inferring bruises, injury. 389 00:16:48,758 --> 00:16:50,552 That was like, a little after [bleep] was born was when 390 00:16:50,635 --> 00:16:53,805 he really got physical with her because, you know, 391 00:16:53,888 --> 00:16:55,557 like when those kids came into play, 392 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,434 that's, that's when he really became 393 00:16:57,475 --> 00:16:59,728 the [bleep] that he is now. 394 00:16:59,811 --> 00:17:01,062 That's when Jermain was really like, 395 00:17:01,187 --> 00:17:02,981 "Okay, you know what? We're done." 396 00:17:03,064 --> 00:17:04,357 You think she was afraid of him? 397 00:17:04,482 --> 00:17:07,318 - Oh, yeah. - Jocelyn saw signs of abuse 398 00:17:07,402 --> 00:17:09,446 between Michael and Jermain. 399 00:17:09,529 --> 00:17:10,989 And it sounds like the abuse was escalating. 400 00:17:11,031 --> 00:17:12,907 I know how hard it is for victims of abuse 401 00:17:13,033 --> 00:17:14,784 to get out of their relationship, 402 00:17:14,826 --> 00:17:17,787 and it appears that Jermain was finally able to do that. 403 00:17:17,912 --> 00:17:20,040 Unfortunately, Michael just wouldn't let go. 404 00:17:20,081 --> 00:17:22,375 JOCELYN: He was losing control of her, so... 405 00:17:22,417 --> 00:17:24,002 - How did she-- - He did everything he could 406 00:17:24,127 --> 00:17:26,087 to get her back, but she wasn't having it. 407 00:17:31,301 --> 00:17:34,471 We're talking to Valenda, who is Jermain's aunt. 408 00:17:34,554 --> 00:17:37,223 But they were only like, nine or ten years apart, 409 00:17:37,307 --> 00:17:40,060 so they were very close throughout their lives. 410 00:17:40,101 --> 00:17:42,937 They were like sisters more than an aunt and a niece. 411 00:17:43,021 --> 00:17:47,275 I have a very special bond with Jermain's aunt, Valenda. 412 00:17:47,317 --> 00:17:49,652 She characterized our relationship as being 413 00:17:49,694 --> 00:17:52,447 that small point of light in this dark event of her life, 414 00:17:52,489 --> 00:17:54,574 so that's, that's quite the compliment. 415 00:17:54,616 --> 00:17:58,161 What was the dynamics of you and Jermain growing up? 416 00:17:58,244 --> 00:17:59,954 She... 417 00:18:00,038 --> 00:18:02,040 she kind of stole my thunder when she came into the world 418 00:18:02,123 --> 00:18:03,291 because I was the baby of the family, 419 00:18:03,416 --> 00:18:04,959 until she came along. 420 00:18:05,001 --> 00:18:07,420 So I held Jermain in my arms for the first time 421 00:18:07,504 --> 00:18:10,548 and gave her her bottle and she smiled at me, 422 00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:13,051 and from that moment on, and she was, 423 00:18:13,176 --> 00:18:15,553 she was my baby, she was my baby sister. 424 00:18:15,595 --> 00:18:16,971 She stole my thunder and then 425 00:18:17,055 --> 00:18:20,558 she stole my heart, right after. 426 00:18:20,684 --> 00:18:23,311 Jermain was very spunky, very spontaneous. 427 00:18:23,353 --> 00:18:25,855 Jermain liked to literally just be outside 428 00:18:25,939 --> 00:18:29,234 as often she could, and be out in the woods. 429 00:18:29,317 --> 00:18:30,985 That's what she wanted to show her kids. 430 00:18:31,069 --> 00:18:34,155 She didn't have a very good role model for a mother. 431 00:18:34,239 --> 00:18:37,200 And so I know she was trying to do the best that she could 432 00:18:37,283 --> 00:18:39,494 to give her boys a better life 433 00:18:39,536 --> 00:18:41,246 than what she had when she was growing up. 434 00:18:41,329 --> 00:18:44,457 When she went missing, I was frantic. 435 00:18:44,541 --> 00:18:47,919 I tried to get in touch with Michael and find out 436 00:18:48,003 --> 00:18:51,172 what happened that night, where he dropped her off at. 437 00:18:51,256 --> 00:18:53,174 That explanation, right there, is what he gave you. 438 00:18:53,299 --> 00:18:55,051 VALENDA: Mm-hmm. 439 00:18:55,176 --> 00:18:57,887 Michael says I dropped her off by Orange Street Market. 440 00:18:58,013 --> 00:18:59,639 And so I asked Michael, 441 00:18:59,764 --> 00:19:01,349 did you guys get in an argument? 442 00:19:01,391 --> 00:19:03,435 I'm worried about her. Her phone is off. 443 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,103 - And... - KELLY: How'd you know 444 00:19:05,228 --> 00:19:06,521 her phone was off? 445 00:19:06,563 --> 00:19:07,689 Because it went straight to voicemail. 446 00:19:07,772 --> 00:19:09,649 And he says, "I kept telling her 447 00:19:09,733 --> 00:19:11,735 "just to let me take her to the house, 448 00:19:11,818 --> 00:19:13,778 "but she kept saying no. 449 00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:15,405 "She hopped out and walked down the street 450 00:19:15,447 --> 00:19:17,240 behind the market." 451 00:19:17,282 --> 00:19:19,993 KELLY: Michael told Valenda that he dropped Jermain off 452 00:19:20,035 --> 00:19:22,370 at the Orange Street Food Farm. 453 00:19:22,495 --> 00:19:24,122 But he told the police department 454 00:19:24,205 --> 00:19:25,915 that he dropped her off at a location 455 00:19:25,957 --> 00:19:27,792 about eight blocks away from there, 456 00:19:27,876 --> 00:19:30,128 which seems like two different stories. 457 00:19:30,211 --> 00:19:33,506 So was Michael confused, was he trying to mislead 458 00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:36,634 Jermain's family, or the investigators, or both? 459 00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:38,553 At the time, I wasn't sure 460 00:19:38,595 --> 00:19:42,182 how to feel about the situation, but... 461 00:19:42,265 --> 00:19:47,145 with their past history, I was trying to play nice, 462 00:19:47,228 --> 00:19:50,732 play that I-- I believed every single word that he said, 463 00:19:50,774 --> 00:19:53,735 and so that way he would continue talking to me. 464 00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:58,990 - You did a good job. - Thank you. 465 00:19:59,074 --> 00:20:01,785 I'm not crying, you're crying. 466 00:20:01,868 --> 00:20:03,453 Her missing still haunts me, 467 00:20:26,267 --> 00:20:28,353 KELLY: Jermain was super pretty. 468 00:20:28,436 --> 00:20:29,354 REBEKAH: She was gorgeous. 469 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,107 KELLY: We said before, working on all this 470 00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:34,567 that being a really pretty girl is a risk factor. 471 00:20:34,734 --> 00:20:36,903 REBEKAH: I know, it's sad, right? 472 00:20:36,945 --> 00:20:38,697 We haven't uncovered any evidence 473 00:20:38,822 --> 00:20:42,117 supporting these rumors about Jermain's disappearance, 474 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,326 so we're going to focus on the evidence 475 00:20:43,410 --> 00:20:45,036 that we know we do have, 476 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:47,330 the varying stories that Michael gave 477 00:20:47,372 --> 00:20:49,708 to Jermain's family and to the police department. 478 00:20:49,833 --> 00:20:51,501 So we're gonna go into the alley 479 00:20:51,543 --> 00:20:53,837 where the bars were at on the night she disappeared. 480 00:20:53,878 --> 00:20:55,880 REBEKAH: People hang out in these alleys all the time 481 00:20:55,964 --> 00:20:57,257 because the bars are split that way, too, 482 00:20:57,298 --> 00:20:59,718 and you can go from bar to bar. 483 00:20:59,801 --> 00:21:01,636 KELLY: Jermain was last seen on video 484 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,014 around midnight in an alley 485 00:21:04,139 --> 00:21:06,641 behind the Badlander bar where she was talking 486 00:21:06,683 --> 00:21:09,352 to a group of male friends and Michael, 487 00:21:09,436 --> 00:21:10,895 but what happened after that 488 00:21:11,021 --> 00:21:12,397 is what's still a mystery. 489 00:21:12,522 --> 00:21:14,524 So this is the area, 490 00:21:14,649 --> 00:21:17,444 this door leads to the back of the Badlander. 491 00:21:17,485 --> 00:21:19,154 - Is that the camera? - Yep. 492 00:21:19,195 --> 00:21:21,156 And so the angle that you were looking at, 493 00:21:21,281 --> 00:21:23,116 Michael was standing on the steps, 494 00:21:23,158 --> 00:21:25,160 Jermain was standing two steps, 495 00:21:25,201 --> 00:21:27,037 and then Nick Rheault and Eddie Woodcock 496 00:21:27,078 --> 00:21:29,748 were standing here and then Michael and Jermain 497 00:21:29,831 --> 00:21:31,958 walk eastbound, and that video kind of shows 498 00:21:32,042 --> 00:21:34,044 she looks at him and he kind of does this with her hand, 499 00:21:34,085 --> 00:21:37,005 like there's some dialogue going back and forth. 500 00:21:37,047 --> 00:21:38,590 STEVE: In Michael's initial interview, 501 00:21:38,673 --> 00:21:41,092 he downplayed his interaction with the other two guys. 502 00:21:41,176 --> 00:21:42,552 GUY: Did that cause a little drama, 503 00:21:42,594 --> 00:21:44,012 that she's talking to them? 504 00:21:44,054 --> 00:21:45,347 Okay. 505 00:21:45,513 --> 00:21:47,182 STEVE: But does Jermain's gesture indicate 506 00:21:47,349 --> 00:21:48,558 that there was some type of tension 507 00:21:48,641 --> 00:21:51,561 or frustration as they walked off? 508 00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:53,646 KELLY: And then, how far away are we 509 00:21:53,688 --> 00:21:54,773 from the Orange Street market? 510 00:21:54,898 --> 00:21:56,775 Probably not quite a mile. 511 00:21:56,816 --> 00:21:58,526 Michael told Jermain's family 512 00:21:58,651 --> 00:22:01,071 that Friday night, after leaving the bars, 513 00:22:01,237 --> 00:22:04,532 he dropped Jermain off by the Orange Street Food Farm. 514 00:22:04,574 --> 00:22:06,743 GUY: So this is, uh, Orange Street Food Farm. 515 00:22:06,910 --> 00:22:09,037 But he told the police that he dropped her off 516 00:22:09,204 --> 00:22:12,207 about three quarters of a mile away from there. 517 00:22:12,248 --> 00:22:14,376 When I interviewed Michael and I said, 518 00:22:14,542 --> 00:22:16,169 you can show me exactly where you guys went, 519 00:22:16,252 --> 00:22:18,421 he didn't stop here, he went past here. 520 00:22:18,546 --> 00:22:21,466 That was very early on where I thought, hmm, 521 00:22:21,633 --> 00:22:23,218 there's no video here. 522 00:22:23,259 --> 00:22:26,346 This is one of the places that had no video. 523 00:22:26,429 --> 00:22:30,100 What's interesting is that Michael did tell the police 524 00:22:30,141 --> 00:22:33,228 he dropped her off at the Orange Street Food Farm, 525 00:22:33,269 --> 00:22:36,523 but that was on the night before Thursday night. 526 00:22:36,648 --> 00:22:38,900 So was Michael telling the truth? 527 00:22:39,025 --> 00:22:42,404 Was he confused or is he recycling his story? 528 00:22:42,445 --> 00:22:44,739 He was applying what he did Thursday. 529 00:22:44,864 --> 00:22:46,825 He told the family that's how Friday went. 530 00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:50,078 So when he dropped her off here, for real, on Thursday, 531 00:22:50,161 --> 00:22:53,164 you think she was able to scoot to Jacob so fast? 532 00:22:53,248 --> 00:22:54,708 Yeah, this little alley here 533 00:22:54,833 --> 00:22:57,961 leads to Jacob Love's apartment. 534 00:22:58,086 --> 00:23:01,256 It's unclear if Michael knew that Jermain was dating 535 00:23:01,339 --> 00:23:04,426 a new boyfriend named Jacob. 536 00:23:04,467 --> 00:23:07,095 According to the reports, he told the family 537 00:23:07,178 --> 00:23:11,433 that Jermain was texting a guy named Jacob all night 538 00:23:11,558 --> 00:23:14,310 and asked them multiple times if they knew 539 00:23:14,352 --> 00:23:16,146 who lived by Orange Street. 540 00:23:16,187 --> 00:23:18,606 So it seems like Michael was still pretty concerned 541 00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:20,233 about connecting those dots. 542 00:23:20,358 --> 00:23:22,360 I think she told him to drop her off here 543 00:23:22,402 --> 00:23:25,613 because she didn't want him to know where she was staying. 544 00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:36,416 STEVE: Michael was suspicious of there being another guy 545 00:23:36,499 --> 00:23:38,251 when he dropped her off Thursday night, 546 00:23:38,335 --> 00:23:40,170 and I'd be willing to bet that Michael was jealous 547 00:23:40,211 --> 00:23:42,881 if Jermain asked him to drop her off again Friday night. 548 00:23:42,964 --> 00:23:44,632 And this just fuels his belief 549 00:23:44,758 --> 00:23:47,260 that there's somebody else involved. 550 00:23:47,302 --> 00:23:48,803 We'll get back in and I'll show you 551 00:23:48,928 --> 00:23:50,138 where he told me he dropped her off. 552 00:23:50,305 --> 00:23:51,848 Okay, let's go look at the other one. 553 00:23:51,890 --> 00:23:54,017 We'll just go eight blocks west on this one-way. 554 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:55,643 STEVE: If Michael did kill Jermain, 555 00:23:55,685 --> 00:23:57,854 he had the perfect alibi story to keep straight, 556 00:23:57,896 --> 00:24:00,523 because it was the truth, just from the night before, 557 00:24:00,565 --> 00:24:03,276 so why tell the police seemingly different stories? 558 00:24:03,318 --> 00:24:05,111 He stopped right here, facing this direction 559 00:24:05,236 --> 00:24:07,197 and Jermain got out of the car. 560 00:24:07,364 --> 00:24:09,657 He claimed that he was concerned for her safety, 561 00:24:09,699 --> 00:24:11,826 yet he let her walk off into the darkness. 562 00:24:17,457 --> 00:24:18,792 GUY: Did you think that was weird, 563 00:24:18,875 --> 00:24:20,168 because if she's walking that way, 564 00:24:20,251 --> 00:24:21,628 why wouldn't she just have you drive her 565 00:24:21,670 --> 00:24:23,129 where you picked her up before? 566 00:24:23,254 --> 00:24:24,964 Do you say anything to her? 567 00:24:27,592 --> 00:24:30,553 This is also where he brings up the point that a car 568 00:24:30,637 --> 00:24:32,472 pulled up behind them. 569 00:24:32,555 --> 00:24:34,557 STEVE: In his story to law enforcement, 570 00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:36,059 Michael claimed that when he dropped Jermain off, 571 00:24:36,226 --> 00:24:39,020 another car pulled up, causing him to drive off. 572 00:24:45,527 --> 00:24:46,611 STEVE: Law enforcement was never able 573 00:24:46,778 --> 00:24:47,904 to identify that car, 574 00:24:47,987 --> 00:24:49,280 and we don't know if it ever exists. 575 00:24:49,364 --> 00:24:51,241 Why did he pick here, do you think? 576 00:24:51,366 --> 00:24:52,992 Here's the thing. 577 00:24:53,034 --> 00:24:54,285 - Were they ever here? - Right. 578 00:24:54,369 --> 00:24:55,829 They probably were never here, right? 579 00:24:55,995 --> 00:24:57,372 STEVE: It's possible this whole story 580 00:24:57,414 --> 00:24:59,165 about leaving Jermain at a random corner, 581 00:24:59,207 --> 00:25:00,333 with a mystery car pulling up, 582 00:25:00,417 --> 00:25:01,960 was just an attempt by Michael 583 00:25:02,043 --> 00:25:04,295 to claim that he left Jermain in a high-risk situation 584 00:25:04,379 --> 00:25:06,631 on the street corner in hopes of turning the attention 585 00:25:06,756 --> 00:25:08,216 away from himself as a suspect. 586 00:25:08,383 --> 00:25:10,552 I think he panicked when he was talking to you. 587 00:25:23,857 --> 00:25:25,525 GUY: The guy that's going to take this case over 588 00:25:26,568 --> 00:25:28,028 when I'm gone, I said, he and Brittany-- 589 00:25:28,153 --> 00:25:29,821 KELLY: What's he gonna need to take over? 590 00:25:29,904 --> 00:25:32,157 I don't know why you think you're passing this case on. 591 00:25:32,198 --> 00:25:33,700 GUY: I'm retiring six months from today, so. 592 00:25:33,783 --> 00:25:35,493 When you're gone, it's going to be solved. 593 00:25:35,577 --> 00:25:37,537 - GUY: Well, there you go. - Why do we need a new guy? 594 00:25:37,620 --> 00:25:38,663 - Well... - You're going to be the guy. 595 00:25:38,788 --> 00:25:40,040 - That's true. - The only guy. 596 00:25:40,165 --> 00:25:40,874 Hopefully they filed charges, so... 597 00:25:40,957 --> 00:25:42,459 KELLY: Heck, yeah. 598 00:25:42,542 --> 00:25:44,210 We know Michael DeFrance had the opportunity 599 00:25:44,252 --> 00:25:46,254 to kill Jermain Charlo, 600 00:25:46,338 --> 00:25:49,299 but now we want to investigate his possible motive. 601 00:25:49,424 --> 00:25:51,926 According to his statement, Michael was hoping 602 00:25:52,052 --> 00:25:53,553 that he and Jermain were going to get back together. 603 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,685 KELLY: Learning more about how they got along 604 00:26:00,769 --> 00:26:03,480 that night could shed more light 605 00:26:03,521 --> 00:26:05,899 on Michael's mindset. 606 00:26:06,024 --> 00:26:07,484 Okay, so Luke's from the Dark Horse bar. 607 00:26:07,609 --> 00:26:10,695 They went to the Dark Horse bar and played pool. 608 00:26:10,737 --> 00:26:13,073 Luke Kraus was working at the first bar 609 00:26:13,198 --> 00:26:14,824 that Michael and Jermain went to. 610 00:26:14,866 --> 00:26:16,034 LUKE: I was in there, 611 00:26:16,117 --> 00:26:17,535 I was setting up for the night. 612 00:26:17,577 --> 00:26:21,581 It was about eight when they came in. 613 00:26:21,623 --> 00:26:26,252 They bought a Long Island Iced Tea and a Corona. 614 00:26:26,378 --> 00:26:27,587 KELLY: That's pretty good. 615 00:26:27,671 --> 00:26:29,589 GUY: Curious, how do you remember that? 616 00:26:29,631 --> 00:26:32,467 Because he was a cheap bastard and he didn't tip me. 617 00:26:32,550 --> 00:26:35,303 They didn't seem to be getting along fairly well, 618 00:26:35,387 --> 00:26:37,555 like a tense situation, you know. 619 00:26:37,681 --> 00:26:40,809 She kept checking her phone and looking out the window. 620 00:26:40,892 --> 00:26:43,645 She seemed like she was, like, irritated, 621 00:26:43,728 --> 00:26:45,480 and didn't really want to be there. 622 00:26:45,605 --> 00:26:47,732 GUY: Do you remember about how long they were there? 623 00:26:47,857 --> 00:26:49,693 - Probably 40 minutes? - Okay. 624 00:26:49,776 --> 00:26:51,861 Just kind of talking to the people at the front of the bar 625 00:26:51,903 --> 00:26:53,613 and when I came back, their empty drinks 626 00:26:53,697 --> 00:26:56,157 were sitting in the end of the bar, and they were gone. 627 00:26:56,282 --> 00:26:57,575 KELLY: Luke paints a picture of them 628 00:26:57,659 --> 00:26:59,536 looking like they were on a bad date, 629 00:26:59,661 --> 00:27:01,996 which kind of sets the scene for the rest of the night. 630 00:27:02,038 --> 00:27:03,665 Hours later, 631 00:27:03,707 --> 00:27:06,543 Jermain and Michael are documented on videotape 632 00:27:06,626 --> 00:27:08,503 outside of a bar in an alley, 633 00:27:08,628 --> 00:27:10,422 talking to some of Jermain's friends, 634 00:27:10,505 --> 00:27:12,841 Nick Rheault and Eddie Woodcock. 635 00:27:12,924 --> 00:27:14,426 We're going to talk to those guys, 636 00:27:14,551 --> 00:27:15,844 starting with Nick. 637 00:27:15,969 --> 00:27:17,178 - NICK: We met online. - GUY: Yeah. 638 00:27:17,303 --> 00:27:20,181 We kicked it off pretty quick, had fun, 639 00:27:20,265 --> 00:27:22,434 and then we tried the dating thing, 640 00:27:22,517 --> 00:27:24,144 it wasn't very long at all. 641 00:27:24,185 --> 00:27:25,729 GUY: Did she ever talk about her 642 00:27:25,812 --> 00:27:27,272 baby daddy, Michael DeFrance? 643 00:27:27,397 --> 00:27:28,898 - Yes. - What do you-- 644 00:27:28,982 --> 00:27:31,735 Knew that he had custody of the kids. 645 00:27:31,860 --> 00:27:33,862 GUY: Okay. 646 00:27:33,987 --> 00:27:35,572 Never really went into huge detail about it. 647 00:27:35,655 --> 00:27:37,032 I just knew that she was 648 00:27:37,115 --> 00:27:39,117 not fond of that whole situation. 649 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,952 GUY: What do you mean by that? 650 00:27:41,036 --> 00:27:42,245 NICK: It sounded like a sore subject, 651 00:27:42,287 --> 00:27:44,956 so really never expanded upon it. 652 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,375 GUY: So we'll go to the night that you saw them last, 653 00:27:47,459 --> 00:27:49,961 when she was with Michael DeFrance, okay? 654 00:27:50,003 --> 00:27:51,546 And that's when you first met him. 655 00:27:51,671 --> 00:27:53,715 - Yeah. - Did you have an opinion on 656 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,592 how he felt about Jermain, talking to you? 657 00:27:55,675 --> 00:27:57,093 From his body language? 658 00:27:57,177 --> 00:27:59,262 I would say he probably wasn't the happiest. 659 00:27:59,304 --> 00:28:01,348 - GUY: Okay, yeah. - Yeah. 660 00:28:02,932 --> 00:28:04,267 GUY: Hey, Eddie, how did you and Jermain Charlo 661 00:28:04,392 --> 00:28:05,727 get to know each other? 662 00:28:09,522 --> 00:28:10,815 GUY: And then do you remember 663 00:28:10,899 --> 00:28:12,359 who else was out there with you? 664 00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:37,759 Okay. 665 00:28:40,637 --> 00:28:42,514 And what was Jermain's response 666 00:28:42,597 --> 00:28:44,015 when you suggested hanging out later? 667 00:28:45,475 --> 00:28:48,561 Do you think Michael heard you say that to her, 668 00:28:48,645 --> 00:28:50,939 that you, maybe we can hang out later? 669 00:28:53,983 --> 00:28:55,402 It's pretty clear that the night 670 00:28:55,527 --> 00:28:57,445 did not go according to Michael's plans. 671 00:28:57,570 --> 00:29:00,365 Michael was really hoping to get Jermain back. 672 00:29:00,448 --> 00:29:02,325 She did not seem to be very interested. 673 00:29:02,450 --> 00:29:05,161 I mean, she's doing her thing that whole night. 674 00:29:05,245 --> 00:29:06,871 From all that we've heard, 675 00:29:06,955 --> 00:29:09,040 Michael DeFrance was controlling, 676 00:29:09,124 --> 00:29:11,251 he was possessive, and he was abusive, 677 00:29:11,292 --> 00:29:14,713 based on his personality and how the night went, 678 00:29:14,754 --> 00:29:17,090 by the time they got into the pickup truck. 679 00:29:17,132 --> 00:29:19,968 Michael was probably in a pretty 680 00:29:20,051 --> 00:29:21,302 explosive state of mind. 681 00:29:23,096 --> 00:29:24,848 Have you thought at all about 682 00:29:24,973 --> 00:29:29,102 what you want to do with approaching Michael? 683 00:29:29,144 --> 00:29:31,479 Ideally, I would like to confront him in person, 684 00:29:31,521 --> 00:29:32,939 if we can find him, like, in the parking lot 685 00:29:33,023 --> 00:29:35,525 of where he works at the end of the day, 686 00:29:35,608 --> 00:29:37,110 and see if he will talk, 687 00:29:37,193 --> 00:29:38,486 and if I can't find him there, at least give him 688 00:29:38,528 --> 00:29:39,738 - a call on the phone. - Okay. 689 00:29:39,821 --> 00:29:41,114 STEVE: Who's got the motive here? 690 00:29:41,239 --> 00:29:44,075 That's Michael and his jealous obsession. 691 00:29:44,159 --> 00:29:45,869 And now we need to confront him. 692 00:29:45,952 --> 00:29:47,078 Now it gets interesting. 693 00:29:47,203 --> 00:29:48,830 GUY: What route would you take? 694 00:29:48,872 --> 00:29:50,457 Kind of blame the victim, let's see what, you know, 695 00:29:50,540 --> 00:29:52,542 hey, she's fooling around with you, playing you. 696 00:29:52,625 --> 00:29:53,835 Let's see what he says. 697 00:29:55,837 --> 00:29:58,048 - GUY: How you doing? Good. - Good. 698 00:29:58,173 --> 00:30:00,258 I'm just looking for somebody that I heard works here. 699 00:30:00,342 --> 00:30:02,135 Do you know Michael DeFrance? 700 00:30:02,260 --> 00:30:04,054 Well, he don't work here anymore. 701 00:30:04,179 --> 00:30:06,389 Oh, do you know where Michael DeFrance is working now, 702 00:30:06,473 --> 00:30:08,016 where he went to work after this? 703 00:30:12,729 --> 00:30:14,689 - STEVE: Okay. - GUY: Thank you. 704 00:30:14,773 --> 00:30:16,149 STEVE: We were hoping to catch Michael off guard at work, 705 00:30:16,232 --> 00:30:18,526 Unfortunately, that didn't happen for us. 706 00:30:18,568 --> 00:30:19,944 so now it's plan B. 707 00:30:20,028 --> 00:30:21,863 [phone ringing through] 708 00:30:24,783 --> 00:30:26,034 Hey, Michael? 709 00:30:27,243 --> 00:30:28,870 It's Guy Baker, how you doing? 710 00:30:30,622 --> 00:30:33,083 Uh, I was wondering if you were available to, uh, 711 00:30:33,208 --> 00:30:35,377 meet up and talk again. 712 00:30:36,878 --> 00:30:38,463 GUY: whatever works in your schedule. 713 00:30:40,965 --> 00:30:42,467 I'll wait to hear from you. 714 00:30:44,719 --> 00:30:46,596 I'm surprised he didn't hang up. 715 00:30:46,721 --> 00:30:48,556 I wonder what his blood pressure is right now. 716 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,350 [chuckling] 717 00:30:50,433 --> 00:30:51,643 STEVE: Right now, Michael appears to be nervous, 718 00:30:51,768 --> 00:30:53,561 you could tell it in his voice. 719 00:30:53,603 --> 00:30:54,771 It's falling apart, 720 00:30:54,813 --> 00:30:56,106 and he knows it's falling apart. 721 00:30:56,147 --> 00:30:57,440 And maybe the phone records 722 00:30:57,482 --> 00:30:58,817 will give us that last piece of evidence 723 00:31:13,206 --> 00:31:14,499 KELLY [joking]: Hurry up, come on. 724 00:31:15,625 --> 00:31:17,377 We are waiting to hear if Michael DeFrance 725 00:31:17,419 --> 00:31:19,671 calls us back for an interview. 726 00:31:19,754 --> 00:31:22,132 In the meantime, we want to talk about 727 00:31:22,215 --> 00:31:24,759 all the cell phone activity from that night. 728 00:31:24,801 --> 00:31:27,012 Jermain's phone has never been recovered. 729 00:31:27,053 --> 00:31:28,930 Initially, Michael told the police 730 00:31:29,055 --> 00:31:31,057 that Jermain took her phone with her 731 00:31:31,099 --> 00:31:33,935 when she last got out of his truck that night. 732 00:31:36,938 --> 00:31:38,732 GUY: Okay, so you saw her grab the... 733 00:31:38,815 --> 00:31:40,775 She didn't leave anything in your truck. 734 00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:42,527 KELLY: But after Missoula Police Department began 735 00:31:42,569 --> 00:31:44,404 digging into her records, 736 00:31:44,571 --> 00:31:46,364 they spoke to Michael again, 737 00:31:46,448 --> 00:31:48,533 and when pressured, this time, 738 00:31:48,616 --> 00:31:50,285 he admitted that he had lied. 739 00:31:52,912 --> 00:31:56,166 Aware that Jermain had been texting other guys that night, 740 00:31:56,291 --> 00:31:59,544 Michael claimed he tried getting into her phone, 741 00:31:59,586 --> 00:32:01,212 but he couldn't unlock it, 742 00:32:01,338 --> 00:32:04,632 so he broke it and then ditched it a couple of days later 743 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:07,719 at a rest stop along his trucking route. 744 00:32:07,802 --> 00:32:09,596 The police department did go try and search 745 00:32:09,679 --> 00:32:11,473 the area of the rest stop, 746 00:32:11,514 --> 00:32:13,308 but they couldn't find her phone and they came up empty. 747 00:32:13,391 --> 00:32:16,561 This was one of the best experiences I've ever had, 748 00:32:16,603 --> 00:32:18,229 I mean, I am so impressed. 749 00:32:18,313 --> 00:32:19,856 The stuff you collected, amazing. 750 00:32:19,939 --> 00:32:22,192 We got call detail records, the social media records 751 00:32:22,275 --> 00:32:24,152 as well as the Google data itself, 752 00:32:24,194 --> 00:32:26,613 so comprehensive set of records, nice job. 753 00:32:26,696 --> 00:32:28,490 KELLY: We've asked Eric Devlin 754 00:32:28,615 --> 00:32:31,451 to confirm what the Missoula Police Department found, 755 00:32:31,534 --> 00:32:35,330 focusing on Jermain and Michael's cell phone activity 756 00:32:35,455 --> 00:32:37,999 after they left the bars that night, 757 00:32:38,083 --> 00:32:40,418 shortly after midnight, and we're hoping to put 758 00:32:40,502 --> 00:32:42,629 all of the little pieces of this story together 759 00:32:42,712 --> 00:32:44,339 in the best compelling way that we can, 760 00:32:44,464 --> 00:32:46,174 to present this case to a prosecutor. 761 00:32:46,257 --> 00:32:48,927 ERIC: Starts going into the location data on here. 762 00:32:48,968 --> 00:32:50,845 So, this is 6-16-2018. 763 00:32:51,012 --> 00:32:54,099 This is Michael DeFrance's cell phone, 764 00:32:54,182 --> 00:32:56,142 and then Jermain Charlo's phone. 765 00:32:56,226 --> 00:32:59,229 You're having these hits here around two o'clock, a.m., 766 00:32:59,396 --> 00:33:02,440 hitting off this tower, in this area, all around 767 00:33:02,524 --> 00:33:03,983 the DeFrance residence. 768 00:33:04,109 --> 00:33:05,694 What you're seeing on here, 769 00:33:05,777 --> 00:33:07,570 you've got some reflection on the signal back and forth. 770 00:33:07,654 --> 00:33:09,781 Oh, okay, so it doesn't mean the phone itself 771 00:33:09,906 --> 00:33:11,324 is on both sides of the freeway. 772 00:33:11,366 --> 00:33:13,702 No. No, no, no, no, it's an estimate. 773 00:33:13,868 --> 00:33:16,371 That same arc, along the mountainside, 774 00:33:16,454 --> 00:33:18,331 they were almost identical. 775 00:33:18,415 --> 00:33:19,791 KELLY: So right after two in the morning 776 00:33:19,874 --> 00:33:21,960 confirming that Jermain's phone is out there 777 00:33:22,002 --> 00:33:23,837 on the DeFrance property 778 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,006 after she leaves the bar at 12:30? 779 00:33:26,047 --> 00:33:27,507 - Okay. - STEVE: why did Michael 780 00:33:27,549 --> 00:33:29,843 initially lie about having Jermain's phone, 781 00:33:29,884 --> 00:33:31,720 and why ditch it at a rest stop? 782 00:33:31,761 --> 00:33:33,471 Here's a guy who wants her back in his life, 783 00:33:33,513 --> 00:33:35,140 and he throws away her cell phone. 784 00:33:35,181 --> 00:33:36,725 It doesn't make any sense. 785 00:33:36,850 --> 00:33:38,852 Then we have a couple of the messages 786 00:33:38,935 --> 00:33:42,313 from the night of, that Michael sent to her 787 00:33:42,355 --> 00:33:43,773 on Facebook Messenger. 788 00:33:43,898 --> 00:33:48,611 So at 2:06 Michael writes, "Seriously again?" 789 00:33:48,653 --> 00:33:50,447 Question mark, question mark, exclamation point, 790 00:33:50,572 --> 00:33:52,824 which was a little bit like, more than he ever does. 791 00:33:52,991 --> 00:33:55,118 "If you're not staying with another guy here in Missoula, 792 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,537 then why the hell did you get out and walk off?" 793 00:33:57,662 --> 00:33:59,622 And then, immediately after that, 794 00:33:59,664 --> 00:34:02,375 he writes, "Why couldn't you just let me bring you 795 00:34:02,417 --> 00:34:04,377 to the house you're staying at?" 796 00:34:04,544 --> 00:34:06,212 ERIC: But remember, in my opinion, 797 00:34:06,254 --> 00:34:07,547 based upon the records we have, 798 00:34:07,714 --> 00:34:09,424 he has her phone at this point. 799 00:34:09,466 --> 00:34:10,842 - REBEKAH: Yeah. - So these are BS messages. 800 00:34:10,967 --> 00:34:13,386 I believe he knows well and good 801 00:34:13,511 --> 00:34:15,096 that she's not going to see that. 802 00:34:15,138 --> 00:34:16,639 Ooh... 803 00:34:16,806 --> 00:34:19,100 Based on these text messages that Michael sent, 804 00:34:19,142 --> 00:34:21,311 it's pretty clear that he was doing his best 805 00:34:21,436 --> 00:34:24,522 to try and distance himself from the investigation, 806 00:34:24,689 --> 00:34:26,274 but really, all this did 807 00:34:26,399 --> 00:34:28,026 was incriminate him even further. 808 00:34:28,151 --> 00:34:29,569 So you're excited. 809 00:34:29,611 --> 00:34:31,488 I'm very excited. She's very excited. 810 00:34:31,613 --> 00:34:33,615 KELLY: Look what all this leads to, Eric, great. 811 00:34:33,698 --> 00:34:35,116 - Great, great, great. - Yeah, thank you so much. 812 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,410 That's-- I mean, fantastic. 813 00:34:41,790 --> 00:34:43,625 [phone ringing through] 814 00:34:44,918 --> 00:34:46,127 Hello, it's Guy. 815 00:34:47,253 --> 00:34:48,922 Hey, Michael, how are you? 816 00:34:55,762 --> 00:34:58,890 Okay, so contact your lawyer? 817 00:34:59,015 --> 00:35:00,266 Okay, well, thanks. 818 00:35:00,392 --> 00:35:01,518 I appreciate you getting back to me 819 00:35:01,601 --> 00:35:03,228 and letting me know that. 820 00:35:04,479 --> 00:35:05,814 Well, y'all kind of called it, right? 821 00:35:05,939 --> 00:35:07,315 Yeah. 822 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,608 KELLY: It's no shock that Michael DeFrance 823 00:35:08,733 --> 00:35:10,151 decided not to speak to us today, 824 00:35:10,276 --> 00:35:14,155 but that's okay, because he talked plenty back then. 825 00:35:14,197 --> 00:35:16,574 Now we're going to review everything we've learned 826 00:35:16,616 --> 00:35:19,619 to see who we believe is involved 827 00:35:19,744 --> 00:35:21,329 in Jermain's disappearance. 828 00:35:21,496 --> 00:35:24,916 So this whole dispelling all the rumors 829 00:35:24,958 --> 00:35:26,167 and the alternate theories 830 00:35:26,251 --> 00:35:28,003 like we started out with up here. 831 00:35:28,128 --> 00:35:29,671 GUY: Those rumors were followed up on, 832 00:35:29,796 --> 00:35:30,880 and there was nothing to corroborate 833 00:35:30,964 --> 00:35:32,799 that they were valid. 834 00:35:32,924 --> 00:35:35,051 None of them were probable to me. 835 00:35:35,135 --> 00:35:36,678 It didn't make sense. 836 00:35:36,803 --> 00:35:38,722 There's no sexual assault suspects working the area. 837 00:35:38,805 --> 00:35:40,265 This isn't a stranger. 838 00:35:40,348 --> 00:35:41,808 Everybody's good with crossing this whole 839 00:35:41,975 --> 00:35:44,352 idea theory off the board, right? 840 00:35:44,477 --> 00:35:47,355 KELLY: We did not uncover any evidence 841 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,107 supporting the rumors and theories 842 00:35:49,232 --> 00:35:51,568 that have been floating around in this case for years, 843 00:35:51,609 --> 00:35:54,696 and we can eliminate all those ideas completely. 844 00:35:54,738 --> 00:35:57,991 That leaves us with the last known person 845 00:35:58,074 --> 00:36:00,994 to see Jermain alive, Michael DeFrance. 846 00:36:01,036 --> 00:36:03,329 So you obviously don't have Jermain 847 00:36:03,496 --> 00:36:05,248 to talk about her relationship 848 00:36:05,331 --> 00:36:06,416 and how it went down. 849 00:36:06,499 --> 00:36:08,501 But you have girlfriends or relatives 850 00:36:08,585 --> 00:36:13,006 who can all describe that volatile relationship, right? 851 00:36:13,089 --> 00:36:14,424 Yes. 852 00:36:14,507 --> 00:36:16,634 It was that classic, "If I can't have you, 853 00:36:16,718 --> 00:36:17,969 nobody else can." 854 00:36:18,053 --> 00:36:19,387 A little after [bleep] was born 855 00:36:19,429 --> 00:36:21,598 is when he really got physical with her. 856 00:36:21,723 --> 00:36:24,809 Dani also pointed out holding the kids over her head 857 00:36:24,893 --> 00:36:27,145 and kind of manipulating her by that. 858 00:36:27,187 --> 00:36:28,813 They were hooking up. 859 00:36:28,938 --> 00:36:31,191 She's trying to be his friend for the sake of the boys, 860 00:36:31,274 --> 00:36:34,194 and Michael's not letting Jermain visit the boys, anyways. 861 00:36:34,277 --> 00:36:36,404 Which also explains why people were wondering, 862 00:36:36,446 --> 00:36:37,989 why is she back with him? And that was the answer, 863 00:36:38,073 --> 00:36:39,115 right there, because she wanted 864 00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:40,241 - to see the kids. - Yeah. 865 00:36:40,325 --> 00:36:41,451 And then we went and talked 866 00:36:41,576 --> 00:36:43,703 to the bartender. 867 00:36:43,787 --> 00:36:46,247 LUKE: She seemed like she was, like, irritated, 868 00:36:46,331 --> 00:36:48,291 and didn't really want to be there. 869 00:36:48,375 --> 00:36:50,126 He was hopeful that, uh, 870 00:36:50,210 --> 00:36:51,503 he was going to make it work with her 871 00:36:51,586 --> 00:36:52,921 when they went out on Friday, 872 00:36:53,004 --> 00:36:54,547 and the evening didn't go how he hoped, 873 00:36:54,714 --> 00:36:57,759 and as things start to uncoil, 874 00:36:57,842 --> 00:37:00,178 there's guy after guy after guy that he's seeing 875 00:37:00,220 --> 00:37:01,805 that she's got some connection to. 876 00:37:01,930 --> 00:37:04,182 From his body language, I can say he probably 877 00:37:04,349 --> 00:37:05,433 wasn't the happiest. 878 00:37:12,232 --> 00:37:13,650 I think he knows 879 00:37:13,775 --> 00:37:14,901 that she doesn't want anything to do with him, 880 00:37:15,026 --> 00:37:16,945 and that little fire is burning, 881 00:37:17,112 --> 00:37:18,655 you know, for the whole night, it's burning. 882 00:37:18,822 --> 00:37:21,825 And the fact that when you interviewed DeFrance, 883 00:37:21,991 --> 00:37:24,452 his interviews with you aren't even the same. 884 00:37:24,577 --> 00:37:26,454 Remember in the first interview with him, 885 00:37:26,538 --> 00:37:29,290 he had told me that Jermain exited his vehicle, 886 00:37:29,457 --> 00:37:31,126 she had her wallet and her cell phone. 887 00:37:32,919 --> 00:37:34,004 In that second interview, 888 00:37:34,087 --> 00:37:35,797 that's when he did admit that he lied 889 00:37:35,964 --> 00:37:37,298 that she left the phone in the car. 890 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,178 You did the forensics. 891 00:37:42,262 --> 00:37:44,180 Around 2:02 is when you start to see 892 00:37:44,347 --> 00:37:47,559 Jermain's phone in that same path as Michael's, 893 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:48,601 near his parents' house. 894 00:37:48,768 --> 00:37:49,978 - KELLY: Huge, huge. - Yeah. 895 00:37:50,061 --> 00:37:51,646 Then what else did you find 896 00:37:51,771 --> 00:37:53,565 - that you like? - Messages on Facebook 897 00:37:53,606 --> 00:37:55,483 where he's messaging her. 898 00:37:55,608 --> 00:37:56,985 And the dumb-ass 899 00:37:57,068 --> 00:37:58,945 is doing a fake text to cover his tracks 900 00:37:59,029 --> 00:38:00,697 and he can't even cover his jealousy up then. 901 00:38:00,780 --> 00:38:03,616 His words alone point back to him. 902 00:38:03,742 --> 00:38:05,160 It clearly is like a funnel. 903 00:38:05,285 --> 00:38:07,245 It comes right back, it's Michael DeFrance. 904 00:38:07,328 --> 00:38:09,539 KELLY: What are you gonna ask Brittany 905 00:38:09,581 --> 00:38:11,666 when y'all have your sit down to discuss all this? 906 00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:13,918 Yeah, a charge of homicide against Michael DeFrance 907 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,545 and I can go arrest him. 908 00:38:15,587 --> 00:38:17,047 You're gonna be there, Becca, what are you thinking? 909 00:38:17,172 --> 00:38:18,882 - I'm gonna be there. - You gotta push this 910 00:38:18,923 --> 00:38:20,842 right over the goal line here and score the touchdown. 911 00:38:20,884 --> 00:38:23,011 KELLY: We've built a circumstantial case 912 00:38:23,094 --> 00:38:25,513 against Michael DeFrance for the murder of Jermain, 913 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,557 and now it's time to run all that down 914 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,477 and present all that evidence to Brittany Williams 915 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,395 with the Missoula County Attorney's Office. 916 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:33,605 You feeling it? 917 00:38:33,688 --> 00:38:35,357 Totally, yeah, absolutely, yes. 918 00:38:45,784 --> 00:38:47,035 GUY: I'll tell you, my chief, 919 00:38:48,244 --> 00:38:50,663 when I gave him the update last night, he said, 920 00:38:50,705 --> 00:38:53,875 "Do you want to resend your retirement letter?" 921 00:38:53,958 --> 00:38:56,086 You got too much more you want to get finished here, 922 00:38:56,211 --> 00:38:58,713 - in a good way, in a good way. - Yeah, yeah. 923 00:39:00,507 --> 00:39:01,549 Good morning, ladies. 924 00:39:01,633 --> 00:39:03,051 BOTH: Good morning. 925 00:39:04,886 --> 00:39:06,596 So, uh, 926 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,350 this whole week has been... great, 927 00:39:10,433 --> 00:39:13,269 it exceeded my expectations. 928 00:39:13,311 --> 00:39:15,814 We've expounded on several things 929 00:39:15,897 --> 00:39:17,524 that we had already done, 930 00:39:17,607 --> 00:39:19,859 but we also found some things that are new. 931 00:39:21,152 --> 00:39:23,988 Talked to Brittany and, uh, 932 00:39:24,072 --> 00:39:27,909 I am more hopeful about this case than I've ever been, 933 00:39:28,034 --> 00:39:30,620 that we're going to have a resolution to this 934 00:39:30,662 --> 00:39:32,580 that all three of us have always wanted. 935 00:39:34,165 --> 00:39:36,084 Wow. 936 00:39:36,167 --> 00:39:39,295 You're just kind of taken back... 937 00:39:39,337 --> 00:39:40,839 [exhales sharply] 938 00:39:42,507 --> 00:39:43,967 KELLY: What you've been waiting for 939 00:39:44,009 --> 00:39:45,385 is finally going to happen, 940 00:39:45,468 --> 00:39:48,263 - after seven years. - About [bleep] time. 941 00:39:48,388 --> 00:39:50,765 I don't know how else to say that, it's... 942 00:39:50,849 --> 00:39:52,934 kind of unreal. 943 00:39:53,018 --> 00:39:54,853 It's great news, 944 00:39:54,936 --> 00:39:57,439 but one day it's anger, frustration, tears-- 945 00:39:57,564 --> 00:40:01,693 it's a ball of emotions, and we've got two young boys 946 00:40:01,776 --> 00:40:06,114 who not only know their mother's dead, 947 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:07,991 now they're going to learn that their father, 948 00:40:08,074 --> 00:40:09,492 the guy that raised them, 949 00:40:09,576 --> 00:40:11,953 is probably the one that took their mother. 950 00:40:11,995 --> 00:40:14,456 We haven't been a part of their lives for seven years. 951 00:40:14,497 --> 00:40:17,375 Why don't you say right now what you would say to them 952 00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:18,877 if they were sitting here? 953 00:40:18,918 --> 00:40:22,047 That we've never stopped thinking about them. 954 00:40:22,130 --> 00:40:24,549 They've been our drive this entire time, 955 00:40:24,632 --> 00:40:27,552 to help bring their mother justice. 956 00:40:27,594 --> 00:40:30,430 Their mom loved them very, very much, 957 00:40:30,513 --> 00:40:34,351 and I hope that they can find strength 958 00:40:34,434 --> 00:40:35,810 through this process. 959 00:40:35,852 --> 00:40:38,396 I'm really overwhelmed with the information 960 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:39,898 we received today. 961 00:40:39,981 --> 00:40:41,775 I'm just relieved that Jermain 962 00:40:41,816 --> 00:40:44,277 will finally get the justice she deserves. 963 00:40:44,361 --> 00:40:46,738 I think it's going to bring some peace. 964 00:40:46,780 --> 00:40:48,782 I'm looking forward to some peace. 965 00:40:48,865 --> 00:40:51,451 Brittany is here today to talk to you, 966 00:40:51,534 --> 00:40:53,453 and I'll tell you, 967 00:40:53,536 --> 00:40:55,747 if there were more prosecutors in this country like her, 968 00:40:55,789 --> 00:40:58,083 a lot more cases would be solved. 969 00:40:58,166 --> 00:41:00,919 So y'all should be grateful for this man and for her. 970 00:41:01,002 --> 00:41:03,254 - It was wonderful meeting you. - You, too. 971 00:41:03,338 --> 00:41:04,673 You want to go talk to Brittany? 972 00:41:04,714 --> 00:41:05,840 Yeah, okay. 973 00:41:08,218 --> 00:41:10,804 Thank you. 974 00:41:10,887 --> 00:41:12,514 To be invited to work on a case 975 00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:16,267 that is this important to Missoula, 976 00:41:16,351 --> 00:41:19,688 to the state of Montana, to the MMIW movement, 977 00:41:19,813 --> 00:41:23,108 and to Jermain's family, it is really an honor, 978 00:41:23,191 --> 00:41:25,777 and to be able to make this kind of progress, 979 00:41:25,819 --> 00:41:27,696 to really get the case to move forward, 980 00:41:27,737 --> 00:41:29,864 that's why we do this job. 981 00:41:29,948 --> 00:41:31,282 To a certain extent, from my perspective, 982 00:41:31,324 --> 00:41:32,617 I think time is of the essence 983 00:41:32,701 --> 00:41:34,911 with what the next steps that we take forward. 984 00:41:35,036 --> 00:41:37,163 I want to make sure that every "T" is crossed 985 00:41:37,247 --> 00:41:39,332 and every "I" is dotted, but I want you to know, 986 00:41:39,457 --> 00:41:41,042 I've never felt better about this. 987 00:41:41,084 --> 00:41:45,714 Waiting to see those jail doors close on him. 988 00:41:45,797 --> 00:41:47,549 VALENDA: It's very surreal. 989 00:41:47,674 --> 00:41:50,760 seven years of 990 00:41:50,844 --> 00:41:52,554 sitting by the phone, 991 00:41:52,637 --> 00:41:56,933 seven years of when Guy calls you, wondering if 992 00:41:57,017 --> 00:41:58,643 it's him saying that he found her, 993 00:41:58,727 --> 00:42:01,479 that he found the missing piece of the puzzle, 994 00:42:01,563 --> 00:42:04,107 it's been a long time coming. 995 00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:08,319 And for the first time, I actually have real hope. 996 00:42:10,405 --> 00:42:12,490 I could never thank Guy enough. 997 00:42:12,574 --> 00:42:15,785 WOMAN: * Look how far we've come * 998 00:42:15,869 --> 00:42:19,456 * I'm rising like the sun * 999 00:42:19,539 --> 00:42:24,044 * This is... our place * 1000 00:42:26,254 --> 00:42:29,632 * It feels like home * 1001 00:42:29,716 --> 00:42:32,927 * With you, I know * 1002 00:42:36,514 --> 00:42:38,266 Bye. See you.