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Woman:<i> ...Message.</i>

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<i> ♪ you got</i>
<i> you got the devil inside ya ♪</i>

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<i> ♪ you set the church on fire ♪</i>

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<i> ♪ you got</i>
<i> you got the devil inside ya ♪</i>

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We worked two cases
in missouri before.

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You did the first one, remember?

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I do.

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They were also fighting
over divorce

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And custody and all that.

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And then we came back here
in 2019

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And worked
another one in missouri.

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That--oh, my god. That also
was another nasty split-up case.

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I think
that breaking up with people

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Is a bigger motive than money.

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You start having sex
with somebody

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And then the relationship
goes bad,

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There's just a certain hatred.

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That's the problem.

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Steve and I are here in missouri

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To investigate
the unsolved murder

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Of a hardworking,
loving, single father

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Devoted to his two little boys.

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Our victim, ricky luebbert,

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Is just like
every boy I grew up with.

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He likes to hunt.
He's a hard worker.

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He clearly loves his two kids,

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And I think that's the center
of his whole universe.

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He had quit drinking,

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And he basically turned
his life around for his kids.

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And how ironic that the bullet
that passes through him

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Hits a handwritten note
from one of the kids

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That says "I love you"
and bounces off of the wall

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After it passes
through his body.

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In November of 2007,

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Ricky luebbert
was alone in his trailer,

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And as he was passing
by a window,

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He was shot
by a high-powered rifle

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From over a hundred yards away,
hunted in his own home.

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It's a football field
and a half.

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- Yeah. 380 feet.
- That's a long-ass shot.

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Spingola: Everybody has got
a rifle here. Deer hunting

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Is the second-biggest
religious holiday.

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Deer season opened
that following Saturday.

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Exactly. Somebody's
a skilled deer hunter.

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Ricky's only known enemies
were his ex-girlfriend,

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Who he was in a heated
custody battle with,

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And her hostile new husband.

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But would a mother
really kill over custody

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If that meant she was gonna be
robbing her own two little boys

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Of their dad?

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These little boys
were six and eight.

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That basically means
their whole life

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Has been lived
under this whole cloud.

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Spingola: And over the years,
wouldn't you become

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A little bit suspicious
of your own mother?

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I mean, you're gonna sit down
at some point

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And say, "hey, what the hell
happened here?"

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- How are you?
- Good. I like this weather.

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- Rowdy douglas.
- Nice to meet you.

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- Scott lindsey.
- Nice to meet you, sheriff.

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I'm graham applegate.

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We're excited to have you here
in texas county.

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I think we can do some good
on this case.

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We don't have
a whole lot of cold cases here,

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And we're excited
to have the help.

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- Nice. Let's go.
- All right.

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This will be the first cold case

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That I've ever worked
in my career.

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I know his dad really wanted
this resolved before he passed,

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And, unfortunately,
we couldn't do that.

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So I think it's important now
to everybody that knew ricky

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To give them some closure
and some justice.

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Siegler: Talk about ricky. What
was ricky's life like back then?

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Douglas: He was 42.

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He worked at a factory
in cabool.

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He worked around the farm
for his landlord.

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You know, off the radar.
Kind of just did his thing

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And never really
bothered anybody.

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- A good ol' boy.
- Seemed like it. Yeah.

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Okay. So, here we got ricky
with the two little boys.

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Everyone talked about how good
of a father that ricky was.

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He'd do anything for his kids

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And that he always wanted
to spend time with them.

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There is a photo of ricky
on an inner tube with his boys,

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And he had his hand
on one of the boys' chest,

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And he had his other hand
holding his other son's hand.

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But even in that moment of fun,
he's still keeping 'em safe.

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These boys lost their dad.

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I want justice for ricky.
I want justice for his boys.

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Okay. Tell us
how this all started.

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Ricky was last seen
on November 7th

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At the cabool football game.

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Ricky went over
whenever he'd seen his kids.

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Alice mader, the ex-girlfriend

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And mother
of ricky luebbert's children,

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Let the kids
go with him to play.

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We believe he left somewhere
between 7:45 to 7:50.

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November 10th

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Is when the landlord
of his mobile home called.

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Mr. Luebbert was supposed
to show up

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And do some work for her
that morning.

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When he failed to show,
she went to check on him.

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He was laying there
in a pool of his own blood

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And starting to decompose.

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It looked like he was shot

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Through the front window
of his house.

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There was two bullet holes.

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One went
completely through the trailer.

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The other one
passed through ricky,

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Through his right side
around his armpit,

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And it exited on the left side.

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- Spingola: A perfect shot.
- Yeah.

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Along his heart. It's over with.

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They said that it pretty well
took the top of his heart off.

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Really? And that window
that he shot through,

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What does it look at?

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It's facing highway h.

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Siegler: How far off is
the highway from the window?

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Douglas: It's about 130 yards.

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There was about 66 feet
of acceleration marks

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Found near the entrance
to the driveway.

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I think he was probably sniped
from a vehicle

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Laying in wait
across the road from him.

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It's way more deliberate
and mean and cold.

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Spingola: Investigators
recovered the bullet

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That killed ricky,
and it was determined

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That it was fired
by a .30-caliber rifle,

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The type of weapon
used often by deer hunters.

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But this was
no hunting accident.

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It was
a cold-blooded assassination.

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Douglas: No sign of burglary.

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No sign of physical altercation
inside or anything like that.

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Whoever shot him
wanted him dead.

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That's all they had
to gain from it.

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Siegler: At the time
of the murder,

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Ricky and alice mader
had been separated

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And fighting over custody

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In and out of court
for four years.

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She made it clear to everybody
in town that she hated him.

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They're fighting about custody.

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Specifically,
they're arguing over discipline,

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Doctor appointments.

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Unclean house. Education.

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She had told several people
that she wished he was dead

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And that her life
would be easier if he was gone.

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- She's ready to be done.
- Yeah.

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Based on ricky's clothes

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And his absence from work
on November the 8th,

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The sheriff's department
believes that he was shot

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After that football game
on November the 7th.

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That makes alice one of the last
people to see ricky alive.

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What do we know
about alice on Thursday?

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Douglas: On Thursday,
November 8th,

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Alice mader reported
ricky luebbert as a no-show

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For his failure to meet her
and her sons earlier that day.

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She calls again on Saturday

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And informed that he had missed
his son's appointment.

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Siegler: Alice called
the sheriff's department twice

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Before ricky's body
was ever even found

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To report that he had
uncharacteristically

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Not shown up to get the boys.

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The deputies
didn't think much of it

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Until ricky's body
was discovered.

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Is she legitimately wondering
what's going on

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And therefore not involved,

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Or is she trying
to say something

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To get him found
to make herself look good

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'cause she<i> is</i> involved?

169
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Yeah.

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Police have never believed

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That alice was the one that
actually pulled the trigger,

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But she may have had it done.

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And if she did plot
to have ricky killed,

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The obvious person to do it
would be her new husband.

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Mr. Tommie whetzell.

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Tommie whetzell
started dating alice

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Shortly after she and ricky
separated in 2003.

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And they got married in 2005,

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And he moved in
with alice and the boys.

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Is there anything
behind the fact

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That they got divorced
shortly after ricky's murder?

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Douglas: Tommie and ricky
did not like each other at all.

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When tommie was interviewed,
he told the investigators

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That ricky would tell the boys

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They didn't have
to listen to tommie,

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That he wasn't their father.

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These two guys hated each--

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- Yeah, they do.
- The air they breathed.

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Siegler: Okay, whetzell claims
"most conversations between us

190
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Consist of threats of violence."

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He was proficient with a rifle.

192
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Siegler: We can't put
the gun with him.

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We just know
he owns a lot of rifles.

194
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We can put that up here,
right?

195
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Spingola: After the murder,
investigators searched

196
00:08:16,397 --> 00:08:19,031
Tommie and alice's home and
recovered a number of firearms,

197
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Including some
high-powered rifles.

198
00:08:21,268 --> 00:08:23,202
However, none of those turned
out to be the murder weapon.

199
00:08:23,403 --> 00:08:26,038
Siegler: In his interview,
he mentions a thirty-aught-six.

200
00:08:26,073 --> 00:08:28,274
Where is that
thirty-aught-six, right?

201
00:08:28,475 --> 00:08:30,942
The strange thing is that tommie
actually told investigators

202
00:08:31,144 --> 00:08:32,744
That he owned
a thirty-aught-six rifle.

203
00:08:32,946 --> 00:08:34,180
Though that isn't
one of the rifles

204
00:08:34,381 --> 00:08:36,047
To have been recovered
during the search,

205
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It is the right type of rifle
to have been used to kill ricky.

206
00:08:38,752 --> 00:08:40,152
Is there anything else
that happened

207
00:08:40,353 --> 00:08:43,055
That goes under "tommie"
leading up to it?

208
00:08:43,256 --> 00:08:45,023
He said he hit the kid
in the ear.

209
00:08:45,025 --> 00:08:48,594
Tommie admits that ricky
calls tommie on November 7th

210
00:08:48,762 --> 00:08:50,695
When alice
is at the football game,

211
00:08:50,764 --> 00:08:53,899
And that's where this argument
apparently kind of takes off.

212
00:08:54,100 --> 00:08:57,435
Tommie admitted that he hit
one of ricky's kids.

213
00:08:57,504 --> 00:09:00,772
So ricky called tommie
and violently threatened him

214
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:01,774
The night of the football game.

215
00:09:02,309 --> 00:09:05,643
"luebbert tells me
'keep your hands off my boys.

216
00:09:05,712 --> 00:09:08,380
We're gonna settle this
with the boys,

217
00:09:08,449 --> 00:09:10,248
And I'm gonna whip your ass.'"

218
00:09:10,317 --> 00:09:13,152
Could that threat
have driven tommie

219
00:09:13,219 --> 00:09:15,254
To kill ricky later that night?

220
00:09:15,455 --> 00:09:18,323
What did alice know?
Was she part of the plan?

221
00:09:18,525 --> 00:09:19,657
Was it her plan?

222
00:09:19,726 --> 00:09:21,459
Anything else
about the crime itself

223
00:09:21,529 --> 00:09:23,461
That links back to tommie?

224
00:09:23,531 --> 00:09:26,665
He's got no alibi really for
the time period ricky's dead.

225
00:09:26,733 --> 00:09:28,867
Well, his alibi is
"I was on the computer."

226
00:09:29,069 --> 00:09:30,802
- Yeah.
- Douglas: Yeah. Home alone.

227
00:09:30,870 --> 00:09:32,271
And y'all recovered
all the computers

228
00:09:32,605 --> 00:09:34,874
That were involved
with alice and tommie back then?

229
00:09:35,075 --> 00:09:38,142
Yes. And we're gonna reach out
to the cellular company

230
00:09:38,212 --> 00:09:40,880
And see if they can pull
the cell tower records

231
00:09:41,081 --> 00:09:42,413
For alice mader
and tommie whetzell

232
00:09:42,483 --> 00:09:45,683
To verify their statements
that they give in 2007.

233
00:09:45,886 --> 00:09:48,820
But it's a long, long shot
'cause that company got bought.

234
00:09:48,890 --> 00:09:50,521
We're gonna have
tommie's computer

235
00:09:50,591 --> 00:09:53,157
And phone records analyzed
if we can track 'em down.

236
00:09:53,226 --> 00:09:56,895
The question is, can we punch
a hole in his alibi,

237
00:09:56,897 --> 00:09:58,764
Or is it possible
that ricky was killed

238
00:09:58,965 --> 00:10:00,165
By somebody else entirely?

239
00:10:00,233 --> 00:10:01,666
Ooh, that's a pretty good start.

240
00:10:01,736 --> 00:10:03,301
Okay, so, you're gonna
go talk to randy?

241
00:10:03,370 --> 00:10:04,803
Yep.

242
00:10:07,908 --> 00:10:09,641
Man:<i> ♪ it's been a while ♪</i>

243
00:10:09,710 --> 00:10:14,145
<i> ♪ since I've been here ♪</i>

244
00:10:15,248 --> 00:10:19,051
<i>♪ wrapped up in something new ♪</i>

245
00:10:19,252 --> 00:10:21,719
Siegler: We're gonna go meet
ricky's brother, randy.

246
00:10:21,922 --> 00:10:23,956
He's very happy
that it's got reopened

247
00:10:24,157 --> 00:10:25,123
And that we're looking in it.

248
00:10:25,192 --> 00:10:26,258
Good.

249
00:10:27,260 --> 00:10:28,860
I'm hoping to have
the chance to tell him

250
00:10:28,930 --> 00:10:31,262
That he wasn't forgot about.

251
00:10:31,332 --> 00:10:33,932
Siegler: From our understanding,
one of ricky's sons

252
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,201
Is currently working offshore,

253
00:10:36,269 --> 00:10:39,270
And the other son is not
interested in talking to us.

254
00:10:39,339 --> 00:10:44,075
I don't know how anyone can deal
with the loss of their dad

255
00:10:44,144 --> 00:10:46,544
And possibly suspecting
that their mother

256
00:10:46,613 --> 00:10:47,746
Is the person involved.

257
00:10:47,948 --> 00:10:48,946
- Rowdy, how are you?
- Nice to meet ya.

258
00:10:49,015 --> 00:10:51,282
- I'm kelly. Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.

259
00:10:51,284 --> 00:10:53,685
So, we're gonna go meet
with ricky's brother, randy.

260
00:10:53,754 --> 00:10:55,753
Who is older, you or ricky?

261
00:10:55,822 --> 00:10:57,956
Me. I'm one year older
than rick.

262
00:10:58,025 --> 00:10:59,358
He has a birthday coming up.

263
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,559
- Oh, really.
- Yeah. It'd been March 4th.

264
00:11:01,628 --> 00:11:02,493
Oh, that's right. Yeah.

265
00:11:02,563 --> 00:11:04,228
What was he like?

266
00:11:04,298 --> 00:11:05,364
Oh, rick.

267
00:11:06,366 --> 00:11:07,832
Oh, his first 30 years,
he was a wild man.

268
00:11:07,902 --> 00:11:09,534
He was no saint.

269
00:11:09,737 --> 00:11:12,237
He liked to party and have fun.
He liked to live life good.

270
00:11:12,305 --> 00:11:14,840
What all did he like to do
when you say wild guy?

271
00:11:15,041 --> 00:11:19,243
Oh, he liked to four-wheel
and ride motorcycles,

272
00:11:19,312 --> 00:11:20,779
Party and drink.

273
00:11:20,847 --> 00:11:22,247
[laughs]

274
00:11:22,449 --> 00:11:24,382
But then, you know,
he started growing up.

275
00:11:24,452 --> 00:11:25,984
When he had that first boy,
then he started changing,

276
00:11:26,053 --> 00:11:27,585
But it took a while.

277
00:11:27,787 --> 00:11:31,589
Ricky, when he got older,
just once he had the boys,

278
00:11:31,659 --> 00:11:34,092
He started to turn that corner,
and he started to mature

279
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,161
And started trying
to become a different guy.

280
00:11:36,363 --> 00:11:38,129
He was a great father.
He loved his boys.

281
00:11:38,198 --> 00:11:40,465
He'd do anything for his boys.

282
00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:42,000
He loved outside stuff.

283
00:11:42,068 --> 00:11:43,002
Siegler: He did.

284
00:11:43,203 --> 00:11:44,470
He was just an outdoor guy.

285
00:11:44,671 --> 00:11:47,139
In fact, with his boys,
that's what they would do.

286
00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:48,673
They would chase snakes
and lizards.

287
00:11:48,743 --> 00:11:50,141
Okay.

288
00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:52,076
He taught 'em
which ones they could catch.

289
00:11:52,113 --> 00:11:54,213
The boys were so young
at the time.

290
00:11:54,414 --> 00:11:56,281
I know they didn't understand.

291
00:11:56,349 --> 00:11:58,950
For me, it was, uh--
uh, it was heartbreaking.

292
00:11:59,152 --> 00:12:01,352
Didn't understand.

293
00:12:01,421 --> 00:12:03,154
Had no idea why.

294
00:12:03,223 --> 00:12:06,757
And the boys were the anchor
for him to be here.

295
00:12:06,826 --> 00:12:08,893
Seem like they meant
a lot to him.

296
00:12:08,962 --> 00:12:10,829
- They were everything to him.
- Yeah.

297
00:12:10,897 --> 00:12:12,296
He was gonna try
to get custody.

298
00:12:12,366 --> 00:12:14,132
Was there a time
that you were aware of

299
00:12:14,201 --> 00:12:16,769
Where it went from kind of rocky
to, like, even worse?

300
00:12:16,970 --> 00:12:20,138
Well, he moved out, but I don't
know what all happened.

301
00:12:20,206 --> 00:12:21,839
He didn't really talk
about all that.

302
00:12:22,042 --> 00:12:24,175
He wasn't a guy
that shared everything.

303
00:12:24,244 --> 00:12:26,444
Siegler: He just didn't do that.
You the same way?

304
00:12:26,514 --> 00:12:27,446
Okay.

305
00:12:27,647 --> 00:12:28,779
Yeah.

306
00:12:28,848 --> 00:12:30,516
The only thing
he ever talked about

307
00:12:30,717 --> 00:12:31,649
Is that there was a threat made.

308
00:12:31,719 --> 00:12:33,785
Threat made by who? Tommie?

309
00:12:33,853 --> 00:12:35,286
- That boyfriend.
- Siegler: Okay.

310
00:12:35,355 --> 00:12:37,189
Yeah. About something
with the boys.

311
00:12:37,390 --> 00:12:39,390
Douglas: What was the threat?
Do you remember?

312
00:12:39,459 --> 00:12:41,392
He said he was gonna
take care of him,

313
00:12:41,461 --> 00:12:42,593
In so many words.

314
00:12:42,663 --> 00:12:43,928
Tommie threatened to kill him.

315
00:12:43,997 --> 00:12:46,731
Yes. And it kind of worried me.

316
00:12:46,801 --> 00:12:50,135
I was like, "you're not worried
about that?" and he goes, "no."

317
00:12:50,336 --> 00:12:52,871
Do you know if rick
had any other enemies?

318
00:12:52,939 --> 00:12:55,139
- No.
- He never told you

319
00:12:55,208 --> 00:12:56,474
About having any problems
with anybody at work

320
00:12:56,544 --> 00:12:57,675
Or anywhere else?

321
00:12:57,877 --> 00:12:58,877
No.

322
00:12:58,945 --> 00:13:00,946
Sometimes I feel
like it's harder

323
00:13:01,147 --> 00:13:02,613
To talk to these tough men,

324
00:13:02,683 --> 00:13:05,817
'cause even though
they don't wanna let you know

325
00:13:05,885 --> 00:13:08,086
How much they're hurt, they are.

326
00:13:08,154 --> 00:13:09,755
They don't ask
a lot of questions.

327
00:13:09,956 --> 00:13:11,823
They don't get emotional.
They're not nosy.

328
00:13:11,892 --> 00:13:13,225
So they don't go down that road.

329
00:13:13,426 --> 00:13:14,860
Well, we can't
promise anything, but...

330
00:13:15,061 --> 00:13:17,228
No, I know that. I'm hoping.

331
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:20,131
My dad,
he always talked about that.

332
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,568
He wished he could get
some resolution.

333
00:13:22,769 --> 00:13:25,570
Siegler: Ricky's dad passed away
without getting any answers.

334
00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:27,505
But you know that randy
wants to get 'em, too,

335
00:13:27,574 --> 00:13:29,040
So maybe we can get
the answers for him.

336
00:13:29,242 --> 00:13:31,442
I wish I had all the answers.

337
00:13:31,511 --> 00:13:33,645
I wish I had--
I wish I knew everything.

338
00:13:33,847 --> 00:13:35,446
Well, we're gonna get to work
and hopefully

339
00:13:35,515 --> 00:13:39,050
We'll have some news for you
by the end of the week, okay?

340
00:13:39,119 --> 00:13:41,319
- All right. Thank you, sir.
- Thank you so much.

341
00:13:51,730 --> 00:13:54,066
I've turned this thing
on and off so many times

342
00:13:54,266 --> 00:13:57,302
I don't know
if it's on or off now.

343
00:13:58,471 --> 00:14:00,638
We're investigating
a 2007 murder of ricky luebbert.

344
00:14:00,707 --> 00:14:02,640
His brother couldn't share
much information

345
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:05,610
On his and our suspect
alice mader's custody battle.

346
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,212
The big question is,
did alice just hate ricky,

347
00:14:08,415 --> 00:14:10,481
Or was she planning
on doing something about it?

348
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:11,817
Rick was a good guy.

349
00:14:12,018 --> 00:14:14,586
He cared a lot for his kids.

350
00:14:14,621 --> 00:14:16,887
He said she was using
every excuse she could

351
00:14:16,956 --> 00:14:19,357
To keep the kids from him.

352
00:14:19,559 --> 00:14:21,560
She would never let the kids
talk to him one on one

353
00:14:21,761 --> 00:14:22,960
On the phone.

354
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:24,897
They always had
to be speakerphone.

355
00:14:25,098 --> 00:14:27,164
He said she would control
every situation.

356
00:14:27,233 --> 00:14:30,835
He was following the books,
you know, doing everything,

357
00:14:30,903 --> 00:14:32,570
Hoping to get things cleared up

358
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:35,106
To where he could probably
get custody of 'em.

359
00:14:35,176 --> 00:14:36,874
And rick wanted the best
for them boys.

360
00:14:36,944 --> 00:14:39,444
He would have done anything
for 'em.

361
00:14:40,447 --> 00:14:42,447
But I knew he was getting close
to a court case

362
00:14:42,515 --> 00:14:45,182
Right before he passed away--
got shot--

363
00:14:45,251 --> 00:14:47,252
That would help determine

364
00:14:47,454 --> 00:14:50,054
Whether he got custody
of his kids or not.

365
00:14:50,123 --> 00:14:50,956
That's what
he was talking about.

366
00:14:51,157 --> 00:14:52,457
Yeah.

367
00:14:52,525 --> 00:14:54,459
You remember
any of the specifics

368
00:14:54,527 --> 00:14:57,661
About what he thought
was gonna come about?

369
00:14:57,663 --> 00:14:59,196
He was hoping
that he would get 'em,

370
00:14:59,265 --> 00:15:00,198
'cause he had proof

371
00:15:00,266 --> 00:15:02,533
That she wouldn't let him
talk to the boys.

372
00:15:02,602 --> 00:15:04,135
Spingola: According
to court records,

373
00:15:04,338 --> 00:15:06,037
It does appear that ricky
and alice had a court hearing

374
00:15:06,106 --> 00:15:08,272
For custody scheduled
on November 29th,

375
00:15:08,475 --> 00:15:10,074
Just a couple of weeks
after he was killed.

376
00:15:10,144 --> 00:15:12,677
I've worked several other cases
where homicides were involved

377
00:15:12,745 --> 00:15:14,078
To avoid the court date.

378
00:15:14,148 --> 00:15:15,881
Nobody wants to lose
their house or their kids.

379
00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:17,349
He made comments

380
00:15:17,550 --> 00:15:19,216
That she kinda threatened him
off and on before,

381
00:15:19,286 --> 00:15:21,252
And he always told us

382
00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:24,790
If anything ever happens to him,
it's her.

383
00:15:24,991 --> 00:15:26,224
It's alice.

384
00:15:30,963 --> 00:15:32,698
Siegler:
Denise and mark quessenberry

385
00:15:32,899 --> 00:15:36,702
Back then, they worked
at woodpro with ricky.

386
00:15:36,903 --> 00:15:38,369
Right.

387
00:15:38,439 --> 00:15:41,439
When the quessenberrys were
first questioned about the case,

388
00:15:41,508 --> 00:15:45,242
They told the investigators
that alice's husband, tommie,

389
00:15:45,311 --> 00:15:49,013
Made some pretty shocking
statements to them about ricky

390
00:15:49,081 --> 00:15:50,781
In the days
right before the murder.

391
00:15:50,983 --> 00:15:52,818
Douglas: Are you denise?

392
00:15:53,019 --> 00:15:54,318
- Yes.
- Hi, mark.

393
00:15:54,387 --> 00:15:56,320
I'm rowdy douglas.
I'm with the sheriff's office.

394
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:59,157
We're wondering if they
can give us any more insight

395
00:15:59,192 --> 00:16:01,792
Into tommie's animosity
toward ricky

396
00:16:01,861 --> 00:16:03,929
Or if there was
any other escalating tension

397
00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:05,030
Between the two of 'em.

398
00:16:05,231 --> 00:16:06,497
Rick was a real nice guy.

399
00:16:06,566 --> 00:16:08,333
I mean, he'd do anything
for anybody.

400
00:16:08,535 --> 00:16:10,869
The day
that he didn't come to work,

401
00:16:11,071 --> 00:16:12,537
I thought, "well, that's odd."

402
00:16:12,605 --> 00:16:13,905
Then the next day
he didn't show up.

403
00:16:15,141 --> 00:16:15,907
Then Saturday we hear
all these ambulances going out.

404
00:16:17,143 --> 00:16:18,075
Then somebody calls the house.
They say they found rick.

405
00:16:18,144 --> 00:16:19,544
I thought, "oh, no."

406
00:16:19,746 --> 00:16:23,013
It was sad.
We went up to the funeral.

407
00:16:23,082 --> 00:16:25,249
We go to his grave
every now and then.

408
00:16:25,284 --> 00:16:26,351
- Douglas: Oh, really?
- Yeah.

409
00:16:26,553 --> 00:16:28,220
So, at the funeral--
you bring that up.

410
00:16:28,421 --> 00:16:30,121
Do you guys remember
alice being there?

411
00:16:30,223 --> 00:16:31,222
- Yeah.
- She was there with the boys.

412
00:16:31,292 --> 00:16:32,823
Do you remember how she acted?

413
00:16:33,025 --> 00:16:34,525
Denise: I didn't see her crying.

414
00:16:34,727 --> 00:16:36,561
Do you guys remember
tommie whetzell,

415
00:16:36,763 --> 00:16:38,095
The satellite installer?

416
00:16:38,164 --> 00:16:39,031
- Yeah.
- Okay.

417
00:16:39,232 --> 00:16:42,367
He came out
and installed your satellite.

418
00:16:42,569 --> 00:16:45,703
And when he did that,
he found out you guys knew rick

419
00:16:45,772 --> 00:16:47,371
And made some
threatening comments.

420
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,240
- You guys remember that?
- Yeah.

421
00:16:49,309 --> 00:16:51,342
Mark: Nah,
he didn't care for him.

422
00:16:51,344 --> 00:16:52,977
How did he put it?
What were his words?

423
00:16:53,047 --> 00:16:55,112
Nothing.
It was just threatening.

424
00:16:55,182 --> 00:16:57,582
Because he--in a way,
he just seemed like

425
00:16:57,784 --> 00:17:00,117
He was watching
what he was saying...

426
00:17:00,186 --> 00:17:01,519
- Yeah.
- ...In a way.

427
00:17:01,587 --> 00:17:03,187
"I'll never go to jail
for murder," he said.

428
00:17:03,256 --> 00:17:04,923
He'd never go to jail
for anything but murder.

429
00:17:05,125 --> 00:17:06,591
"anything but murder." okay.

430
00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:09,260
He'd just wish something
kind of would happen.

431
00:17:09,328 --> 00:17:11,161
- Yeah.
- You remember that, though?

432
00:17:11,198 --> 00:17:13,130
"I wish something would happen"?

433
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,866
Mark: Like he would wish
he would have...

434
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:17,336
"watch rick.
He's a backstabber."

435
00:17:17,537 --> 00:17:19,604
Do you guys remember
tommie saying that?

436
00:17:19,806 --> 00:17:20,905
Yeah. Yeah.

437
00:17:22,141 --> 00:17:22,741
Siegler: Tommie said
that he wouldn't go to jail

438
00:17:23,443 --> 00:17:24,443
For anything but murder.

439
00:17:25,611 --> 00:17:27,479
As if the punishment
would be worth killing ricky.

440
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,547
And this was
on November the 3rd,

441
00:17:29,616 --> 00:17:31,549
Just four days
before the murder.

442
00:17:31,551 --> 00:17:35,419
Maybe tommie didn't need
alice's encouragement after all.

443
00:17:35,488 --> 00:17:37,955
Denise: That's why we don't sit
in front of our windows.

444
00:17:38,024 --> 00:17:39,290
Mark: Yeah. No kidding, right?

445
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:42,027
We sit where there's
no windows behind us.

446
00:17:46,766 --> 00:17:49,066
Janice woodmancie
was the manager

447
00:17:49,136 --> 00:17:51,569
Of the bullseye
convenient store

448
00:17:51,637 --> 00:17:54,905
And had contact with alice
on a fairly regular basis.

449
00:17:54,974 --> 00:17:56,240
And what I understood,

450
00:17:56,442 --> 00:17:57,442
Alice would come in there
quite frequently,

451
00:17:57,644 --> 00:18:01,112
Maybe even every day,
and sometimes speak her mind.

452
00:18:01,181 --> 00:18:02,713
So maybe she's got
some information.

453
00:18:02,915 --> 00:18:04,816
Hopefully she can still
remember this.

454
00:18:04,851 --> 00:18:06,484
Janice woodmancie worked
at a convenience store

455
00:18:06,553 --> 00:18:08,453
That alice visited every day.

456
00:18:08,655 --> 00:18:10,388
It's possible
that she may have noticed

457
00:18:10,456 --> 00:18:12,057
That alice
was behaving differently

458
00:18:12,258 --> 00:18:14,059
At or about the time
of ricky's homicide.

459
00:18:14,260 --> 00:18:15,593
Did you know ricky?

460
00:18:15,662 --> 00:18:17,595
- I didn't know him. No, sir.
- Okay.

461
00:18:17,664 --> 00:18:21,532
But, I mean, I've known alice
for years and years and years.

462
00:18:21,601 --> 00:18:25,170
So, mader would come
into your--into the bullseye

463
00:18:25,371 --> 00:18:26,870
On a pretty regular basis,
right?

464
00:18:26,872 --> 00:18:27,905
Oh, every day. Yeah.

465
00:18:28,975 --> 00:18:29,808
So you kind of knew
what she was normally--

466
00:18:30,476 --> 00:18:31,075
Kind of a talkative girl.

467
00:18:31,878 --> 00:18:32,511
- She never shuts up.
- Yeah.

468
00:18:33,613 --> 00:18:34,512
I didn't wanna say that,
but, yeah, that's right.

469
00:18:35,548 --> 00:18:38,282
Probably, I would say,
like a month before,

470
00:18:38,484 --> 00:18:40,218
We were sitting outside
on the front,

471
00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:41,952
And alice was asking us

472
00:18:42,021 --> 00:18:45,424
If we knew how she could
get rid of her husband.

473
00:18:45,625 --> 00:18:47,424
She would just talk about that.

474
00:18:47,493 --> 00:18:48,959
Every once in a while,
she'd be like,

475
00:18:49,161 --> 00:18:50,494
"I just need to get rid of him."

476
00:18:50,563 --> 00:18:52,062
What do you think
she meant by that?

477
00:18:52,132 --> 00:18:54,866
She meant she wanted
to kill him, have him killed.

478
00:18:55,068 --> 00:18:56,500
Did you think
she meant that at the time?

479
00:18:56,569 --> 00:18:58,135
Yes. Absolutely. She hated him.

480
00:18:58,204 --> 00:18:59,704
She didn't want him
around her boys.

481
00:19:01,073 --> 00:19:01,606
It's one thing to go around and
tell people you hate your ex.

482
00:19:02,708 --> 00:19:04,076
But it sounds like alice
was looking for a hit man.

483
00:19:04,277 --> 00:19:06,244
Did she stop coming
into the store after the murder,

484
00:19:06,446 --> 00:19:08,512
- Or did it just continue?
- She just continued.

485
00:19:08,715 --> 00:19:10,314
And did you notice anything
different about her demeanor?

486
00:19:10,383 --> 00:19:12,316
She was just as nutty as ever.

487
00:19:12,518 --> 00:19:14,051
So I don't think
she was any different.

488
00:19:14,121 --> 00:19:16,253
In my heart, I always felt
she had something to do with it.

489
00:19:16,322 --> 00:19:17,655
I don't think she did it,

490
00:19:17,724 --> 00:19:19,958
But I think
she had somebody do it.

491
00:19:20,159 --> 00:19:21,726
Spingola: You would think alice
would wanna be more secretive

492
00:19:21,928 --> 00:19:23,394
In finding somebody
to kill ricky

493
00:19:23,464 --> 00:19:24,930
And would ask
her new husband for help

494
00:19:25,131 --> 00:19:26,130
Before the general public.

495
00:19:26,199 --> 00:19:27,598
Is it possible she did?

496
00:19:27,667 --> 00:19:29,868
And tommie was too scared
of jail after all.

497
00:19:30,069 --> 00:19:32,404
Is it possible that alice
got somebody else to do it?

498
00:19:32,605 --> 00:19:35,439
And them kids lost their father
for nothing.

499
00:19:35,476 --> 00:19:36,974
- Yeah.
- Yeah. They did.

500
00:19:37,044 --> 00:19:38,143
Janice: It's a shame.

501
00:19:50,822 --> 00:19:53,825
You ready, ma'am?
They're all excited to meet you.

502
00:19:54,427 --> 00:19:55,326
Guys, this is dr. Perry.

503
00:19:56,229 --> 00:19:57,328
- Rowdy douglas.
- Nice to meet you.

504
00:19:58,498 --> 00:19:58,997
- Graham applewaite.
- Good to see you, doctor.

505
00:20:00,132 --> 00:20:01,333
Spingola: In 2007, ricky
luebbert was shot and killed

506
00:20:01,534 --> 00:20:02,834
With a high-powered rifle.

507
00:20:03,035 --> 00:20:04,368
Today, dr. Kathryn pinneri

508
00:20:04,438 --> 00:20:06,237
Is here to help us
examine those wounds

509
00:20:06,305 --> 00:20:07,438
And explain
what actually happened.

510
00:20:07,508 --> 00:20:10,574
So, from the scene findings,

511
00:20:10,643 --> 00:20:12,844
Ricky was found dead
on the floor of his residence.

512
00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:17,715
The entrance gunshot wound
is right by the right shoulder,

513
00:20:17,783 --> 00:20:20,452
And the exit wound
is by the left shoulder.

514
00:20:20,653 --> 00:20:24,055
We have just a very slight
downward trajectory

515
00:20:24,256 --> 00:20:27,592
As it goes through the upper
lobe of the right lung,

516
00:20:27,727 --> 00:20:31,062
The aorta of the left lung
and then exit.

517
00:20:31,263 --> 00:20:33,931
The shot that killed ricky
pierced his heart and lung,

518
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,400
An area deer hunters
call the "boiler room."

519
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:38,203
What's odd is that one shot
was so precise

520
00:20:38,404 --> 00:20:39,671
And the other shot missed.

521
00:20:39,872 --> 00:20:41,673
One has to wonder
if the killer was nervous.

522
00:20:41,874 --> 00:20:44,476
Another interesting thing
about this case

523
00:20:44,677 --> 00:20:46,344
Is we have
an intermediary target--

524
00:20:46,546 --> 00:20:49,480
The window that the bullet
is going through.

525
00:20:49,549 --> 00:20:52,149
When a bullet goes
through an intermediary target,

526
00:20:52,219 --> 00:20:53,751
It causes it to be unstable.

527
00:20:53,953 --> 00:20:56,887
What we will see
on the skin sometimes

528
00:20:56,956 --> 00:20:59,289
Is a wound
that's described as atypical.

529
00:20:59,492 --> 00:21:00,824
So it's not a circle.

530
00:21:00,894 --> 00:21:04,229
It has more
irregular characteristics.

531
00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:06,630
Now, ricky's wound is a circle.

532
00:21:06,833 --> 00:21:09,500
So that suggests
that he's not very far

533
00:21:09,570 --> 00:21:11,769
From where the bullet entered.

534
00:21:11,837 --> 00:21:14,772
The intermediary target,
the one that went into him,

535
00:21:14,974 --> 00:21:16,974
Definitely within a foot
of the window.

536
00:21:17,176 --> 00:21:19,376
So maybe he's, like,
looking at the curtains.

537
00:21:19,446 --> 00:21:21,413
- Could be. Yes.
- That makes a lot more sense

538
00:21:21,614 --> 00:21:23,181
On how he would have got
a good shot on him.

539
00:21:23,383 --> 00:21:25,584
Wow. Well, thank you very much.

540
00:21:25,785 --> 00:21:29,520
Man:
<i> ♪ desperate and dangerous ♪</i>

541
00:21:29,588 --> 00:21:33,323
<i> ♪ a gun in my hand ♪</i>

542
00:21:33,526 --> 00:21:37,327
<i>♪ they'll never see us coming ♪</i>

543
00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:39,063
<i> ♪ before they know it ♪</i>

544
00:21:39,131 --> 00:21:41,265
<i> ♪ it's the end ♪</i>

545
00:21:41,333 --> 00:21:43,801
<i> ♪ it's the end ♪</i>

546
00:21:43,870 --> 00:21:46,837
We're talking 130 yards here
at least.

547
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:48,673
That's a fair shot.
I'm not kidding.

548
00:21:48,875 --> 00:21:51,208
That's a skill set
that most people don't have.

549
00:21:51,210 --> 00:21:54,611
Siegler: Ricky's trailer
is no longer on the property,

550
00:21:54,681 --> 00:21:58,349
But we've erected a window there
to help us better understand

551
00:21:58,417 --> 00:22:01,786
How he was so viciously hunted
in his own living room.

552
00:22:04,023 --> 00:22:08,492
<i> ♪ they'll take me</i>
<i> dead or alive ♪</i>

553
00:22:08,694 --> 00:22:11,295
<i> ♪ I'm hunted ♪</i>

554
00:22:12,898 --> 00:22:15,833
So, this window is
the front living room window?

555
00:22:16,035 --> 00:22:17,634
Right.

556
00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:19,837
And the two little red dots
are bullet holes?

557
00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:23,974
Yeah. We were standing up there,
eye level for that bullet hole.

558
00:22:24,044 --> 00:22:27,144
That's almost perfect
where the truck is parked.

559
00:22:27,213 --> 00:22:28,912
Siegler: Based
on these acceleration marks

560
00:22:28,982 --> 00:22:31,782
And the trajectory,
the sheriff department believes

561
00:22:31,851 --> 00:22:34,251
That ricky's killer
fired the shots

562
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,055
From sitting inside a vehicle
alongside this highway.

563
00:22:38,124 --> 00:22:40,091
That sure did make
for a quick getaway.

564
00:22:44,063 --> 00:22:47,064
The acceleration marks
were right around here

565
00:22:47,133 --> 00:22:49,000
For 60-something feet.

566
00:22:49,201 --> 00:22:54,438
I know that the firearms report
says 30-class rifle.

567
00:22:54,507 --> 00:22:55,606
Is that correct?

568
00:22:55,676 --> 00:22:57,008
It'd be a 30-caliber rifle.

569
00:22:57,209 --> 00:22:58,343
Spingola: We don't know

570
00:22:58,544 --> 00:23:00,077
What kind of 30-caliber rifle
was used.

571
00:23:00,146 --> 00:23:02,813
But we know that tommie whetzell
was a trained hunter

572
00:23:02,883 --> 00:23:05,684
And suggested that he owned
a 30-aught-six to investigators

573
00:23:05,885 --> 00:23:07,251
Which could be
the murder weapon.

574
00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:09,219
However, investigators
never found that weapon

575
00:23:09,289 --> 00:23:11,055
During a search of his home.

576
00:23:11,123 --> 00:23:13,690
So if I pull up here
and I put it in "park,"

577
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,893
There's ricky's trailer
right out the window.

578
00:23:15,962 --> 00:23:17,694
All day long.

579
00:23:17,763 --> 00:23:19,864
So you shoot "bang!"

580
00:23:24,904 --> 00:23:25,837
Bang.

581
00:23:27,673 --> 00:23:29,573
It would explain
why the casing is never found.

582
00:23:29,642 --> 00:23:32,576
- It'll eject out and back.
- Inside the truck.

583
00:23:32,646 --> 00:23:34,378
Siegler: So he didn't have
to pick it up.

584
00:23:34,447 --> 00:23:36,580
Damn. That's all fast--
from the pull-up

585
00:23:36,650 --> 00:23:38,916
To putting it in "park"
to driving off could be...

586
00:23:38,984 --> 00:23:40,385
- Ten seconds.
- Yeah.

587
00:23:40,586 --> 00:23:42,052
- Look through the scope.
- All right.

588
00:23:42,122 --> 00:23:45,188
We don't know
what time ricky was killed,

589
00:23:45,224 --> 00:23:47,157
But we know
that alice and the boys

590
00:23:47,226 --> 00:23:49,526
Got home from the football game
around 9:30.

591
00:23:49,596 --> 00:23:51,730
And at that time,
tommie was home.

592
00:23:51,931 --> 00:23:53,865
If tommie killed ricky,

593
00:23:54,066 --> 00:23:56,667
Then it likely happened
before then.

594
00:23:56,735 --> 00:23:59,236
He and alice lived
about 20 minutes away.

595
00:23:59,306 --> 00:24:03,674
So he could have easily made it
back home in under an hour.

596
00:24:03,744 --> 00:24:06,143
Hold it out the window.
Put your elbow on the...

597
00:24:06,345 --> 00:24:08,246
Window frame.

598
00:24:08,915 --> 00:24:10,280
And now you're right
in the window with him.

599
00:24:10,350 --> 00:24:13,684
Hold. Do this.

600
00:24:13,752 --> 00:24:15,686
Yeah. All the way back.
Pull straight back.

601
00:24:15,756 --> 00:24:17,688
Push it forward.
Push it down.

602
00:24:17,758 --> 00:24:19,723
And you're ready
for a second round.

603
00:24:19,758 --> 00:24:21,425
Siegler: It'd be easy
if you were a good shot.

604
00:24:21,495 --> 00:24:22,960
You're right inside the window
with him, aren't you?

605
00:24:23,028 --> 00:24:24,195
Yeah.

606
00:24:25,364 --> 00:24:26,831
Looking through this scope
at this crazy distance,

607
00:24:27,967 --> 00:24:30,034
I'm reminded of what tommie
told the investigators--

608
00:24:30,236 --> 00:24:31,735
That earlier that day,

609
00:24:31,771 --> 00:24:34,439
Ricky threatened
to whip his ass.

610
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,041
We can't say for sure
who killed ricky,

611
00:24:37,242 --> 00:24:40,845
But whoever did this did it in
the most cowardly way possible.

612
00:24:41,047 --> 00:24:43,780
Well, I think we've got
a good idea of how it went down.

613
00:24:43,849 --> 00:24:44,915
Does that make more sense
in your head?

614
00:24:44,951 --> 00:24:47,018
- It does. It does.
- Yeah.

615
00:24:56,328 --> 00:24:57,929
Spingola: The key right now
is aric.

616
00:24:58,697 --> 00:25:00,197
If he's got something solid...

617
00:25:00,266 --> 00:25:03,600
From the cellphone tower
information or the calls.

618
00:25:03,670 --> 00:25:06,438
We've heard that our suspect,
alice mader,

619
00:25:06,639 --> 00:25:08,205
Wanted ricky luebbert dead,

620
00:25:08,407 --> 00:25:10,807
And we wonder if she may
have gotten her husband,

621
00:25:10,877 --> 00:25:12,477
Tommie whetzell, to do it.

622
00:25:12,678 --> 00:25:14,878
But so far, we don't have
enough evidence to prove it.

623
00:25:14,947 --> 00:25:18,750
Our digital forensics expert
has analyzed their phones

624
00:25:18,951 --> 00:25:21,018
And computer for their activity
that night.

625
00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:23,487
All right. Everybody's waiting.
Everybody's waiting.

626
00:25:23,557 --> 00:25:24,621
Devlin: Are we ready
to get going?

627
00:25:25,091 --> 00:25:27,491
We know that ricky
threatened tommie on the phone

628
00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:29,126
Around 6:30 p.M.,

629
00:25:29,328 --> 00:25:32,729
And then ricky showed up
at the game around 7:30 p.M.

630
00:25:32,798 --> 00:25:34,832
But what happened after that?

631
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:37,168
Call detail records.
So, this is the first number.

632
00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:39,503
This is the one
they attribute to alice.

633
00:25:39,572 --> 00:25:42,039
At 7:30 p.M.,

634
00:25:42,107 --> 00:25:44,942
Alice mader makes a phone call
to tommie's phone.

635
00:25:45,011 --> 00:25:47,110
She says in her interview,
she called tommie from the game.

636
00:25:47,180 --> 00:25:50,248
Right. That conversation
lasts for 68 seconds.

637
00:25:50,449 --> 00:25:51,249
What happens after that?

638
00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:52,683
At 7:43,

639
00:25:52,752 --> 00:25:55,019
Alice mader calls
tommie whetzell's cellphone.

640
00:25:55,221 --> 00:25:56,186
Siegler: Okay.

641
00:25:56,255 --> 00:25:57,621
Devlin: At 8:11,

642
00:25:58,991 --> 00:26:01,792
Alice mader makes another call
to tommie whetzell's cellphone.

643
00:26:01,794 --> 00:26:04,728
At 8:38, tommie whetzell

644
00:26:04,797 --> 00:26:06,064
Calls alice mader.

645
00:26:06,265 --> 00:26:07,998
Siegler: We don't know for sure

646
00:26:08,067 --> 00:26:09,533
What time ricky luebbert
was killed,

647
00:26:09,601 --> 00:26:11,234
But the communication

648
00:26:11,303 --> 00:26:12,936
Between alice and tommie

649
00:26:13,005 --> 00:26:14,304
Suggested it could have been

650
00:26:14,373 --> 00:26:16,907
Between 8:11 and 8:38 p.M.

651
00:26:16,910 --> 00:26:18,275
But without knowing

652
00:26:18,277 --> 00:26:19,276
What alice said,

653
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:20,611
There's no way of proving

654
00:26:20,679 --> 00:26:22,880
That alice was trying
to set ricky up.

655
00:26:22,948 --> 00:26:26,083
Where in all that
do we have proof

656
00:26:26,285 --> 00:26:30,087
That she's encouraging,
aiding, abetting, assisting?

657
00:26:30,289 --> 00:26:33,892
Tommie could have just said,
"he just pissed me off.

658
00:26:34,093 --> 00:26:36,927
We got into it again. I'm mad."

659
00:26:36,997 --> 00:26:40,297
And she could have said,
"don't do it. Don't do it."

660
00:26:40,366 --> 00:26:42,966
And then she's calling back
or worried or coming home,

661
00:26:43,169 --> 00:26:44,868
Wondering if he's done it.

662
00:26:44,937 --> 00:26:47,637
While we're looking
at alice's cellphone records,

663
00:26:47,706 --> 00:26:49,039
Do you have any calls made

664
00:26:49,109 --> 00:26:52,576
Looking for ricky
Thursday, Friday, and Saturday?

665
00:26:52,645 --> 00:26:56,180
There was a 7:47 call
on the 8th,

666
00:26:56,382 --> 00:26:58,615
And then there
was another call at 8:30.

667
00:26:58,684 --> 00:26:59,918
And then there's calls
on the 10th.

668
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,451
She calls a couple of times
on Saturday.

669
00:27:01,653 --> 00:27:02,686
So she's calling.

670
00:27:02,756 --> 00:27:04,121
I did not expect that.

671
00:27:04,323 --> 00:27:06,523
If alice knew
that ricky was dead,

672
00:27:06,593 --> 00:27:10,060
Then why is she calling ricky
on the 8th and the 10th?

673
00:27:10,129 --> 00:27:11,996
And these are the same days

674
00:27:12,198 --> 00:27:13,664
That she reached out
to the authorities

675
00:27:13,733 --> 00:27:15,399
To say that she was concerned

676
00:27:15,467 --> 00:27:18,068
That ricky had missed
appointments with his sons.

677
00:27:18,104 --> 00:27:20,637
We had wondered
if alice was just trying

678
00:27:20,706 --> 00:27:22,439
To make it look like
she was innocent,

679
00:27:22,509 --> 00:27:24,307
But maybe she really was.

680
00:27:24,510 --> 00:27:26,878
Getting into tommie's calls
over the years,

681
00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:29,213
The cellphone tower names
have changed.

682
00:27:29,282 --> 00:27:30,814
But you can still
show movements.

683
00:27:30,884 --> 00:27:32,749
That is correct.

684
00:27:32,818 --> 00:27:34,117
Spingola: According
to tommie whetzell,

685
00:27:34,220 --> 00:27:35,619
On the night
ricky luebbert was shot,

686
00:27:35,821 --> 00:27:39,223
He was home watching television
and using his computer.

687
00:27:39,292 --> 00:27:41,725
We'll see what his phone and
computer have to say about that.

688
00:27:41,793 --> 00:27:45,730
So, 11-7-2007, 7:30 p.M.,

689
00:27:45,931 --> 00:27:48,632
Receives a call
from alice mader.

690
00:27:48,701 --> 00:27:52,102
That's hitting from a tower that
appears to be his home tower.

691
00:27:52,171 --> 00:27:55,572
7:43, receives a call
from alice mader.

692
00:27:55,574 --> 00:27:57,608
He's still hitting off
that same tower

693
00:27:57,811 --> 00:27:59,910
That looks to be
like his home tower.

694
00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:02,647
At 8:11, call from alice mader.

695
00:28:02,848 --> 00:28:04,581
He is still hitting off
that tower

696
00:28:04,651 --> 00:28:06,450
That belongs to his home.

697
00:28:06,519 --> 00:28:07,984
At 8:38 p.M.,

698
00:28:08,053 --> 00:28:11,521
Tommie makes a call
to alice mader.

699
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:13,957
He is at that point in time
hitting off a tower

700
00:28:13,959 --> 00:28:15,659
That is not his home tower.

701
00:28:15,728 --> 00:28:17,961
He is now hitting
off of a different tower.

702
00:28:18,164 --> 00:28:19,529
If you were arguing to a jury,

703
00:28:19,598 --> 00:28:21,364
You'd draw a big circle
around that right there.

704
00:28:21,434 --> 00:28:23,768
The key
is this anomaly right here.

705
00:28:23,969 --> 00:28:25,302
Tommie whetzell's phone

706
00:28:25,504 --> 00:28:27,737
Changed cellphone towers

707
00:28:27,806 --> 00:28:29,539
At 8:38,

708
00:28:29,608 --> 00:28:30,640
Right around the time

709
00:28:30,709 --> 00:28:31,742
That we believed

710
00:28:31,811 --> 00:28:32,977
That ricky luebbert was killed.

711
00:28:33,178 --> 00:28:34,078
This suggests that tommie

712
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,681
Could have left his house
after his call at 8:11,

713
00:28:37,883 --> 00:28:40,017
Driven to ricky's trailer,
killed him,

714
00:28:40,220 --> 00:28:43,320
Called from a different tower
at 8:38

715
00:28:43,390 --> 00:28:45,555
And gotten home
before alice and the boys

716
00:28:45,757 --> 00:28:47,925
Returned from the game at 9:30.

717
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,127
You know we're not done.

718
00:28:49,328 --> 00:28:51,729
Sergeant and chief
have found the computer.

719
00:28:51,897 --> 00:28:53,697
On November 7, 2007,

720
00:28:53,766 --> 00:28:56,833
From 7:58 p.M. Till 11:58 p.M.,

721
00:28:56,902 --> 00:28:58,769
There was
no computer activity at all.

722
00:28:58,837 --> 00:29:01,105
- He's not on it, period.
- Right.

723
00:29:01,307 --> 00:29:03,907
- There you are.
- It's all we need.

724
00:29:03,976 --> 00:29:07,010
It's time to confront
alice and tommie.

725
00:29:07,012 --> 00:29:09,113
If I was a hugger,
I'd give you a big hug.

726
00:29:09,315 --> 00:29:11,215
- [laughs] fist bump.
- Siegler: Nice.

727
00:29:21,793 --> 00:29:24,161
It'll be interesting to see
if one flips on the other.

728
00:29:24,930 --> 00:29:26,197
Siegler: I hope tom's home.

729
00:29:26,398 --> 00:29:28,465
He says,
"come in in. Let's talk."

730
00:29:28,667 --> 00:29:30,200
Siegler: We don't think
that our suspects,

731
00:29:30,269 --> 00:29:32,936
Alice mader and tommie whetzell,
talk to each other anymore,

732
00:29:33,005 --> 00:29:34,072
But we can't take any chances.

733
00:29:34,273 --> 00:29:36,807
So while steve
and detective applegate

734
00:29:36,875 --> 00:29:38,475
Go try and talk to tommie,

735
00:29:38,544 --> 00:29:41,211
Rowdy and I are on our way
to talk to alice.

736
00:29:41,281 --> 00:29:43,213
[knocking]

737
00:29:43,282 --> 00:29:45,081
- Yes, sir.
- How you doing? Are you tommie?

738
00:29:45,151 --> 00:29:46,583
- Yes.
- I'm sergeant applegate.

739
00:29:46,652 --> 00:29:48,418
I'm with the sheriff's office
in texas county.

740
00:29:48,487 --> 00:29:50,954
Would you be comfortable
sitting and talking to us?

741
00:29:51,023 --> 00:29:52,422
As long as you don't cuff me
and drag me away.

742
00:29:52,492 --> 00:29:53,558
No, we ain't doing that.

743
00:29:53,759 --> 00:29:55,292
Douglas: Hey, alice, how are ya?

744
00:29:55,294 --> 00:29:56,159
You got a minute
to talk with us?

745
00:29:56,228 --> 00:29:57,161
Sure.

746
00:29:58,096 --> 00:29:59,196
Siegler: Analyzing
tommie's cellphone

747
00:30:00,432 --> 00:30:02,699
Tells us that he was not at home
at the time of the murder,

748
00:30:02,769 --> 00:30:04,034
Like he says he was.

749
00:30:04,104 --> 00:30:06,804
Alice: I was working outside
all day today.

750
00:30:07,005 --> 00:30:08,038
Siegler: You get a lot done?

751
00:30:08,108 --> 00:30:11,174
I work like a damn man.
Yeah, I did.

752
00:30:11,377 --> 00:30:13,176
We're less certain
of alice's involvement,

753
00:30:13,245 --> 00:30:16,413
Because she talked to tommie
multiple times that night

754
00:30:16,481 --> 00:30:20,183
But also called the authorities
and ricky after the murder,

755
00:30:20,252 --> 00:30:22,253
Seemingly unaware he's dead.

756
00:30:22,454 --> 00:30:25,755
Douglas: Let's go back to
the night of the football game.

757
00:30:25,825 --> 00:30:28,392
Was everything cordial between
you and rick at the ball game?

758
00:30:28,594 --> 00:30:29,861
Yeah.

759
00:30:31,129 --> 00:30:32,062
While you were at the game,
you called and talked to tom.

760
00:30:32,998 --> 00:30:33,630
- Do you remember that?
- Oh, yeah.

761
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,000
Why did you need to call tom
to tell him that rick was here?

762
00:30:37,202 --> 00:30:39,603
- Because rick had the kids.
- Okay.

763
00:30:39,671 --> 00:30:41,072
Okay? So here I am.

764
00:30:41,273 --> 00:30:43,340
What do I do?
I'm just standing there now.

765
00:30:43,408 --> 00:30:45,076
Okay. So you needed something
to do, so you called tom.

766
00:30:45,277 --> 00:30:46,277
- Yeah.
- I got you.

767
00:30:46,478 --> 00:30:47,811
Do you know
about what time he left?

768
00:30:47,881 --> 00:30:49,212
I know it was a long time ago.

769
00:30:49,281 --> 00:30:52,082
I don't.
All I know is the boys said

770
00:30:52,084 --> 00:30:55,018
He had to be at work early
the next morning.

771
00:30:55,088 --> 00:31:00,057
So then it shows at 8:11,
alice calls tommie's cell.

772
00:31:00,092 --> 00:31:02,225
I was calling him
back and forth. Yeah.

773
00:31:02,294 --> 00:31:03,393
Did you call him and say,

774
00:31:03,462 --> 00:31:06,029
"that sorry son of a gun
left the kids by themselves"?

775
00:31:06,098 --> 00:31:07,230
Basically, yeah.

776
00:31:07,433 --> 00:31:09,533
And then tom calls you back.

777
00:31:09,735 --> 00:31:11,901
Well, he had told me
that he was leaving

778
00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:13,503
To go do something.

779
00:31:13,572 --> 00:31:14,905
There was an old couple

780
00:31:14,973 --> 00:31:16,840
That he's gotta go fix
the satellite.

781
00:31:16,909 --> 00:31:19,042
So I was not expecting him home.

782
00:31:19,244 --> 00:31:21,512
And when I came home,
he was here.

783
00:31:21,713 --> 00:31:24,915
And I said, "I thought you were
going to fix the satellite,"

784
00:31:24,983 --> 00:31:26,383
And he said,
"they got it working."

785
00:31:26,585 --> 00:31:29,520
Okay. So he didn't leave
the house all night.

786
00:31:29,721 --> 00:31:32,456
I don't know. I wasn't here.
I was at the game.

787
00:31:32,658 --> 00:31:34,557
According to alice,
tommie told her

788
00:31:34,627 --> 00:31:37,594
That he needed to leave to go
help somebody fix their tv,

789
00:31:37,663 --> 00:31:39,262
But he never did.

790
00:31:39,331 --> 00:31:40,865
It makes you wonder
if he was trying

791
00:31:41,066 --> 00:31:43,467
To alibi himself
to his own wife.

792
00:31:43,668 --> 00:31:45,335
Applegate: Do you remember
the football game night?

793
00:31:45,404 --> 00:31:47,271
I remember going up
to the football field. Yeah.

794
00:31:47,473 --> 00:31:49,272
Alice called me,
wanted me to come up,

795
00:31:49,341 --> 00:31:50,875
Spend some time up
with her and the boys.

796
00:31:51,076 --> 00:31:52,210
'cause I was sitting home

797
00:31:52,411 --> 00:31:53,544
Getting ready
for work the next day.

798
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,013
So I went there--
I went up to the football field.

799
00:31:57,115 --> 00:31:59,483
And I guess ricky
was supposed to show up there

800
00:31:59,551 --> 00:32:00,684
And never did.

801
00:32:01,820 --> 00:32:03,887
When you talked to
the investigators afterwards,

802
00:32:03,957 --> 00:32:05,688
You didn't say that you went up
to the game back then.

803
00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:07,557
You said that you
stayed home alone by yourself.

804
00:32:07,593 --> 00:32:08,758
Is that what you told
law enforcement--

805
00:32:08,828 --> 00:32:10,360
That you stayed home that night?

806
00:32:10,429 --> 00:32:13,230
If that's what it says I said,
I'm not gonna deny it.

807
00:32:13,298 --> 00:32:14,631
I just can't remember.

808
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:17,233
Did you guys have words
that day, you and ricky?

809
00:32:17,303 --> 00:32:19,569
Did you guys get into it
about flicking aaron's ear?

810
00:32:19,639 --> 00:32:23,306
He got pretty upset
about that. Yeah.

811
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:25,509
He said, "what are you doing
thumping my boy?"

812
00:32:25,578 --> 00:32:28,178
I said, "he was disrespectful,
so I thumped him."

813
00:32:28,248 --> 00:32:29,579
That's another time
he threatened

814
00:32:29,648 --> 00:32:31,114
To come and whup my ass.

815
00:32:31,183 --> 00:32:33,250
Was that the night of the game

816
00:32:33,318 --> 00:32:34,652
That you guys had
that conversation?

817
00:32:35,921 --> 00:32:37,220
I couldn't tell you when that
conversation was for sure.

818
00:32:38,590 --> 00:32:39,989
Tommie first said he went to the
game. Now he doesn't remember.

819
00:32:40,058 --> 00:32:41,692
He remembers the argument
with ricky,

820
00:32:41,894 --> 00:32:42,927
But not when it happened.

821
00:32:43,128 --> 00:32:44,528
Maybe his memory<i> is</i> that bad,

822
00:32:44,730 --> 00:32:47,464
Or he's picking and choosing
what he cares to remember.

823
00:32:47,532 --> 00:32:51,267
So, people that we've talked to
said that alice made comments

824
00:32:51,337 --> 00:32:53,604
To the extent of, um,

825
00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:57,341
"do you know anybody
that will take care of him?"

826
00:32:57,543 --> 00:33:00,009
She never mentioned anything
like that to me.

827
00:33:00,212 --> 00:33:01,846
- She never asked you?
- No.

828
00:33:02,047 --> 00:33:04,415
Did she ever...

829
00:33:04,616 --> 00:33:07,218
Lead you to believe
in any way that--

830
00:33:07,419 --> 00:33:09,220
That's something
she would consider doing

831
00:33:09,421 --> 00:33:10,620
Was having him killed?

832
00:33:10,690 --> 00:33:13,089
Well, she wished
he was dead a few times.

833
00:33:13,158 --> 00:33:14,824
Right. Well, I know
you did, too.

834
00:33:14,893 --> 00:33:17,093
Yes, I did. I definitely did.

835
00:33:17,162 --> 00:33:19,630
Applegate: So, what does
your gut tell you?

836
00:33:19,831 --> 00:33:24,033
Well, alice might have hired
somebody to do it.

837
00:33:24,102 --> 00:33:25,701
According to tommie,
alice never said

838
00:33:25,904 --> 00:33:27,037
She wanted to have ricky killed,

839
00:33:27,105 --> 00:33:29,372
But he thinks that she may
have hired somebody to do it.

840
00:33:29,441 --> 00:33:32,375
It sounds as if he's trying to
distance himself from this crime

841
00:33:32,444 --> 00:33:34,143
And throw alice under the bus.

842
00:33:34,180 --> 00:33:37,180
You said you left the game
around 9:30-ish

843
00:33:37,249 --> 00:33:39,182
And he was still awake
when you got home?

844
00:33:39,252 --> 00:33:41,518
That was the weirdest thing.

845
00:33:41,586 --> 00:33:43,387
When we got home,
it was the first time

846
00:33:43,589 --> 00:33:45,623
We had a conversation
as a family.

847
00:33:45,824 --> 00:33:47,123
It was just, like, nice.

848
00:33:47,192 --> 00:33:49,325
And we were actually
sittin' and talkin',

849
00:33:49,395 --> 00:33:50,727
And that was bizarre.

850
00:33:50,796 --> 00:33:52,796
Douglas: The night
that rick is murdered,

851
00:33:52,865 --> 00:33:54,163
He's in a great mood.

852
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,399
Is that not weird?

853
00:33:55,601 --> 00:33:57,734
- The whole thing is weird.
- Right.

854
00:33:57,803 --> 00:34:00,937
But I think that he told you
after the murder, alice,

855
00:34:01,007 --> 00:34:02,739
And if he did,
this is the time,

856
00:34:02,808 --> 00:34:05,141
Because we're talking
to tommie right now.

857
00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:06,676
We got guys
in liberal, missouri.

858
00:34:06,745 --> 00:34:09,345
He's been in the car with them
for over an hour,

859
00:34:09,415 --> 00:34:11,214
And you know what he's saying?

860
00:34:11,283 --> 00:34:13,216
That you paid somebody
to kill rick luebbert.

861
00:34:13,285 --> 00:34:14,085
[alice scoffs]

862
00:34:14,553 --> 00:34:16,286
He's gonna try
to throw you under the bus

863
00:34:16,356 --> 00:34:17,854
And make you out to be bad.

864
00:34:18,056 --> 00:34:21,424
Okay, just so you know,
he didn't tell me anything.

865
00:34:21,627 --> 00:34:23,426
Spingola: Let me show you
something, tommie, here.

866
00:34:23,495 --> 00:34:25,162
They pulled up
your cellphone records,

867
00:34:25,364 --> 00:34:27,097
And this is damning.

868
00:34:27,165 --> 00:34:28,766
Applegate: That's your phone

869
00:34:28,967 --> 00:34:32,569
Making a call to alice 8:38 p.M.

870
00:34:32,771 --> 00:34:35,572
What I'm telling you
is you weren't home.

871
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,507
Okay.

872
00:34:37,442 --> 00:34:38,376
You never went to tommie
and said...

873
00:34:39,244 --> 00:34:39,643
- No.
- ..."you son of a bitch,

874
00:34:40,178 --> 00:34:40,844
Did you kill him?"

875
00:34:41,947 --> 00:34:44,047
No. Have I had, you know,
thoughts on it? Yeah.

876
00:34:44,117 --> 00:34:45,649
Douglas: What do you think?

877
00:34:45,717 --> 00:34:47,917
Well, at one point--

878
00:34:47,986 --> 00:34:49,786
Go through your notes.

879
00:34:49,855 --> 00:34:53,190
When I came home,
I smelled gun stuff.

880
00:34:53,392 --> 00:34:55,659
Douglas: That's not
in any of the reports.

881
00:34:55,727 --> 00:34:56,726
Back up
and start from the beginning.

882
00:34:56,795 --> 00:34:58,728
You get home that night
after the football game,

883
00:34:58,798 --> 00:35:00,030
And what do you smell?

884
00:35:01,266 --> 00:35:03,733
He's sitting in the chair,
in the rocker, watching tv,

885
00:35:03,802 --> 00:35:05,669
And I smelled gunpowder.

886
00:35:05,737 --> 00:35:06,903
I was like,
"what is that smell?"

887
00:35:08,073 --> 00:35:09,472
And he said, "aric and him
were target practicing."

888
00:35:09,541 --> 00:35:12,375
Alice smelled gunpowder
on tommie

889
00:35:12,412 --> 00:35:14,143
The night of the murder.

890
00:35:14,346 --> 00:35:16,414
That is brand-new information.

891
00:35:16,615 --> 00:35:19,482
They're not married anymore,
and she ain't holding back.

892
00:35:19,551 --> 00:35:21,985
And that is a beautiful piece
of circumstantial evidence

893
00:35:22,053 --> 00:35:23,286
Against him.

894
00:35:23,356 --> 00:35:25,088
Spingola: Think about this
for a second.

895
00:35:25,157 --> 00:35:27,224
They're talking
to alice right now.

896
00:35:27,426 --> 00:35:29,292
It comes down to mercy
or justice here.

897
00:35:29,494 --> 00:35:31,427
Do you want people
to look at you

898
00:35:31,497 --> 00:35:34,030
As kind of being
pulled into this,

899
00:35:34,032 --> 00:35:35,165
Or you're gonna be looking

900
00:35:35,233 --> 00:35:37,967
Like some type
of cold-blooded murderer?

901
00:35:38,169 --> 00:35:41,505
That's a tough choice there,
'cause I--I didn't do it.

902
00:35:42,774 --> 00:35:44,173
[spingola sighs]

903
00:35:44,376 --> 00:35:45,708
I don't know.

904
00:35:45,778 --> 00:35:49,113
But I think I'm gonna have
to get a lawyer.

905
00:35:49,314 --> 00:35:50,448
Okay.

906
00:35:50,649 --> 00:35:52,649
Spingola: Tommie's done
talking to us,

907
00:35:52,718 --> 00:35:54,852
But, fortunately,
I think he's told us enough.

908
00:35:55,053 --> 00:35:58,189
So, alice, if you just read
the file, me, an outsider--

909
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:59,589
- Oh, yeah.
- You're the one

910
00:35:59,659 --> 00:36:02,191
Going all over town saying,
"I want him dead."

911
00:36:02,394 --> 00:36:04,595
Yeah. I'm all aware of it.

912
00:36:04,796 --> 00:36:07,264
So that's why we're asking you.

913
00:36:07,466 --> 00:36:09,266
We know you're
in the middle of this.

914
00:36:09,467 --> 00:36:11,534
Help us understand
what really happened.

915
00:36:11,737 --> 00:36:14,404
If I knew, I would tell you.

916
00:36:14,474 --> 00:36:16,207
- Okay.
- I don't know.

917
00:36:16,408 --> 00:36:21,544
The bottom line is, I wouldn't
do anything to hurt my kids.

918
00:36:21,747 --> 00:36:23,280
Siegler: What can you say
about alice?

919
00:36:23,482 --> 00:36:25,416
She was open.

920
00:36:25,617 --> 00:36:28,151
She said, "I know my mouth
got me in trouble.

921
00:36:28,221 --> 00:36:29,352
"that's why I'm sitting here.

922
00:36:29,421 --> 00:36:31,087
I know why you
gotta look at me."

923
00:36:31,157 --> 00:36:34,457
If she would've killed ricky
or had something to do with it,

924
00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:36,494
There's no way that woman
could've kept her month shut

925
00:36:36,695 --> 00:36:38,828
For 10 minutes,
much less 15 years.

926
00:36:38,898 --> 00:36:41,498
Alice just went from being
prime suspect number one

927
00:36:41,566 --> 00:36:44,734
To being a very critical witness
in this case.

928
00:36:57,047 --> 00:36:58,849
[spingola humming]

929
00:36:59,818 --> 00:37:01,017
- Spingola: Gentlemen.
- Good morning.

930
00:37:02,355 --> 00:37:03,153
I could not sleep when I got
back in that room last night.

931
00:37:03,922 --> 00:37:04,354
- Yeah.
- I couldn't either.

932
00:37:05,357 --> 00:37:05,856
- It was a good day.
- It was a good day.

933
00:37:06,791 --> 00:37:07,924
Throughout this
whole investigation,

934
00:37:07,993 --> 00:37:09,460
We have found no evidence

935
00:37:09,661 --> 00:37:11,195
That ricky luebbert
had any enemies

936
00:37:11,396 --> 00:37:13,797
Besides our two suspects
on the board.

937
00:37:13,866 --> 00:37:16,332
Now we wanna revisit all
the information we've gathered.

938
00:37:16,402 --> 00:37:18,735
We got miss alice up here.

939
00:37:18,804 --> 00:37:21,404
We learned that her phone
made calls to ricky

940
00:37:21,474 --> 00:37:23,340
The day after the murder

941
00:37:23,542 --> 00:37:25,675
And then two days
after the murder.

942
00:37:25,744 --> 00:37:29,212
Do you have any calls made
looking for ricky

943
00:37:29,281 --> 00:37:30,714
Thursday, Friday, and Saturday?

944
00:37:32,083 --> 00:37:33,649
Yes. There's calls on the 8th,
and there's calls on the 10th.

945
00:37:33,651 --> 00:37:34,951
Why would you call a dead guy?

946
00:37:35,153 --> 00:37:37,387
If you knew he was dead,
why would you call?

947
00:37:37,389 --> 00:37:38,488
And I didn't think
she was smart enough

948
00:37:39,558 --> 00:37:40,023
To think of,
"well, I'll call the dead guy

949
00:37:40,825 --> 00:37:41,524
So they'll see me calling him."

950
00:37:42,494 --> 00:37:43,693
But then I thought
if she was smart enough,

951
00:37:43,763 --> 00:37:45,229
She'd bring it to our attention.

952
00:37:45,430 --> 00:37:47,297
Knowing alice
and knowing her mouth,

953
00:37:47,365 --> 00:37:48,699
I don't think
if she knew anything

954
00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:50,568
And she was lying
about anything

955
00:37:50,769 --> 00:37:52,235
That she would have been
as consistent as she was.

956
00:37:52,303 --> 00:37:53,636
I think we can eliminate her.

957
00:37:53,705 --> 00:37:55,238
I don't think
she's got the smarts,

958
00:37:55,307 --> 00:37:56,440
The ability, the skill set.

959
00:37:56,975 --> 00:37:58,074
I don't either. I don't think
she can keep her mouth shut.

960
00:37:59,210 --> 00:38:00,209
Siegler: It's clear
why people looked at alice.

961
00:38:00,545 --> 00:38:02,279
She ran her mouth all over town

962
00:38:02,281 --> 00:38:04,914
About she felt about ricky
and wanting to get rid of him.

963
00:38:04,984 --> 00:38:07,784
Everybody knew they had
an upcoming court date

964
00:38:07,819 --> 00:38:09,786
And they were fighting
over custody of the kids.

965
00:38:09,821 --> 00:38:12,922
But now that kind of seems
like an unfortunate coincidence.

966
00:38:12,991 --> 00:38:17,361
There is no direct evidence
of any involvement

967
00:38:17,562 --> 00:38:21,265
Or commission of any act
that alice did that night.

968
00:38:21,466 --> 00:38:22,932
And just like she told us,

969
00:38:23,001 --> 00:38:25,835
None of us believe
that she had the heart

970
00:38:25,904 --> 00:38:28,137
To want to take away
her kids' dad.

971
00:38:28,207 --> 00:38:30,673
We can clear alice out for good.

972
00:38:30,742 --> 00:38:32,809
All right. Tommie whetzell.

973
00:38:32,878 --> 00:38:35,778
What makes you think
tommie's the shooter?

974
00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:37,014
He just can't keep
his story straight

975
00:38:38,149 --> 00:38:39,950
On where he was at the night
that ricky was killed.

976
00:38:40,152 --> 00:38:41,751
Do you remember
the football game night?

977
00:38:41,821 --> 00:38:43,686
I remember going up
to the football field. Yeah.

978
00:38:43,889 --> 00:38:47,223
He says in 2007 that he was
at home the whole time

979
00:38:47,293 --> 00:38:49,026
On the computer
and watching tv.

980
00:38:49,227 --> 00:38:50,426
Well, we know he wasn't.

981
00:38:50,496 --> 00:38:51,562
- Siegler: Okay.
- 'cause his cellphone's

982
00:38:51,763 --> 00:38:53,329
Hitting off
of a different tower.

983
00:38:53,398 --> 00:38:56,966
At 8:38 p.M.,
tommie makes a call.

984
00:38:57,035 --> 00:39:00,103
He is hitting off a tower
that is not his home tower.

985
00:39:00,171 --> 00:39:01,705
What did we learn from alice
last night?

986
00:39:01,907 --> 00:39:03,774
- He smelled like gunpowder.
- For the first time ever.

987
00:39:03,975 --> 00:39:05,975
Acted like they're
a happy little family.

988
00:39:06,044 --> 00:39:08,112
And gave her a mini
potential alibi

989
00:39:08,313 --> 00:39:09,713
In case she came home too early.

990
00:39:09,915 --> 00:39:11,915
He had told me
that there was a old couple

991
00:39:11,984 --> 00:39:13,983
That he's gotta go fix
the satellite.

992
00:39:14,052 --> 00:39:16,586
"and I was so surprised when
I pulled up and he was home."

993
00:39:16,656 --> 00:39:18,122
And he said, "oh, they took care
of it themselves."

994
00:39:18,323 --> 00:39:19,655
Right. That old couple.

995
00:39:19,725 --> 00:39:22,859
In the little window of time
where it happens to be

996
00:39:22,928 --> 00:39:24,928
That your cell tower's
switched to a new location.

997
00:39:24,963 --> 00:39:26,529
- Yeah.
- And then you had

998
00:39:26,532 --> 00:39:28,798
That phone fight--
"I'm gonna whip your ass.

999
00:39:28,867 --> 00:39:30,867
Don't you put hands
on my kids again."

1000
00:39:30,936 --> 00:39:32,602
And the beautiful thing
yesterday

1001
00:39:32,672 --> 00:39:33,937
Is that he reconfirmed it.

1002
00:39:34,005 --> 00:39:35,738
He said, "what are you doing
thumping my boy?"

1003
00:39:35,941 --> 00:39:38,142
He threatened to come
and whup my ass.

1004
00:39:38,343 --> 00:39:40,209
And he mentions a 30-aught-six.

1005
00:39:40,411 --> 00:39:41,544
They go to get it
from his house.

1006
00:39:41,614 --> 00:39:43,079
He can't turn it over.

1007
00:39:43,281 --> 00:39:45,148
If there's a conflict
between the two of them

1008
00:39:45,217 --> 00:39:47,750
That tommie's decided
it's gonna end tonight,

1009
00:39:47,819 --> 00:39:49,953
He's not gonna do it
face-to-face

1010
00:39:50,021 --> 00:39:51,287
Where ricky
can get ahold of him.

1011
00:39:51,357 --> 00:39:52,956
He's gonna do it
from a distance.

1012
00:39:53,158 --> 00:39:54,157
Unlike alice,

1013
00:39:55,193 --> 00:39:57,093
Tommie's mouth keeps digging
his hole deeper

1014
00:39:57,162 --> 00:39:58,829
Every time he opens it.

1015
00:39:59,030 --> 00:40:02,132
His argument with ricky.
His changing story.

1016
00:40:02,166 --> 00:40:05,869
His missing rifle.
His shattered alibi.

1017
00:40:06,071 --> 00:40:09,372
All of this is
solid circumstantial evidence

1018
00:40:09,441 --> 00:40:11,174
Against tommie.

1019
00:40:11,243 --> 00:40:13,109
What I wanna do is present this

1020
00:40:13,311 --> 00:40:15,979
To our prosecuting attorney,
parke stevens,

1021
00:40:16,047 --> 00:40:18,848
And see if he'll put it
in front of a grand jury

1022
00:40:18,917 --> 00:40:21,385
And see if we can
get tommie whetzell

1023
00:40:21,586 --> 00:40:23,586
Indicted for murder.

1024
00:40:23,655 --> 00:40:25,588
Nice. Nice.
You feeling good, too?

1025
00:40:25,790 --> 00:40:27,191
- Hell, yeah.
- Well, go.

1026
00:40:27,392 --> 00:40:28,324
We'll sit here
and wait for you.

1027
00:40:28,393 --> 00:40:29,592
- All right.
- Well, go have some good luck.

1028
00:40:29,995 --> 00:40:32,562
- We'll let you know.
- Take care, guys.

1029
00:40:35,533 --> 00:40:38,935
Siegler: Randy drove back down
here again from st. Louis

1030
00:40:39,003 --> 00:40:40,937
For you to catch him up.
Aren't you excited?

1031
00:40:41,005 --> 00:40:43,406
I am excited. This is the first
cold case I've worked, so...

1032
00:40:43,474 --> 00:40:45,409
- That's cool.
- Yeah.

1033
00:40:45,611 --> 00:40:49,680
Man:<i> ♪ I can hear</i>
<i> the engines go ♪</i>

1034
00:40:49,881 --> 00:40:52,750
<i> ♪ I can see the smoke</i>
<i> as it follows me ♪</i>

1035
00:40:52,951 --> 00:40:54,250
Rowdy and applegate
had a meeting

1036
00:40:55,587 --> 00:40:57,688
With their prosecuting attorney,
and we have some good news.

1037
00:40:57,889 --> 00:41:01,558
When I reached out to aaron,
ricky's oldest son,

1038
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,027
I don't think
he was ready to talk about it.

1039
00:41:04,095 --> 00:41:06,429
I think maybe
after we talk to randy,

1040
00:41:06,497 --> 00:41:07,997
We can have randy call him.

1041
00:41:08,066 --> 00:41:09,832
And it's all good news for him

1042
00:41:10,035 --> 00:41:13,636
To know that his mother really
did have nothing to do with it,

1043
00:41:13,705 --> 00:41:15,972
And he's finally gonna get
something done.

1044
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:16,774
Yeah.

1045
00:41:17,509 --> 00:41:18,274
Siegler: For now, we're headed

1046
00:41:19,511 --> 00:41:20,778
To share this good news
with ricky's brother, randy,

1047
00:41:21,813 --> 00:41:24,347
Who's been waiting 15 years
for an answer.

1048
00:41:24,415 --> 00:41:26,116
We had a pretty good week.

1049
00:41:26,317 --> 00:41:29,385
I was prepared for the worst,
but I'm hoping for the best.

1050
00:41:29,454 --> 00:41:33,457
We went and talked
to alice and tommie again,

1051
00:41:33,658 --> 00:41:37,393
And I think
pretty confident to say

1052
00:41:37,463 --> 00:41:40,029
That alice was not involved.

1053
00:41:40,132 --> 00:41:41,297
Okay.

1054
00:41:42,467 --> 00:41:43,799
I talked to the prosecuting
attorney yesterday,

1055
00:41:43,869 --> 00:41:46,202
And I'm pretty confident

1056
00:41:46,271 --> 00:41:49,138
That we're gonna take this
in front of a grand jury

1057
00:41:49,208 --> 00:41:51,274
And try to get
tommie whetzell indicted

1058
00:41:51,343 --> 00:41:52,341
For first-degree murder.

1059
00:41:52,411 --> 00:41:53,744
Great. I'm happy.

1060
00:41:53,945 --> 00:41:56,814
I was hopeful,
but I didn't wanna get excited.

1061
00:41:57,015 --> 00:41:58,814
- Siegler: Okay.
- But now I'm pretty excited.

1062
00:41:58,883 --> 00:42:00,750
Good. You don't
show it too much,

1063
00:42:00,818 --> 00:42:02,485
But I guess that's just
the kind of man you are.

1064
00:42:02,553 --> 00:42:04,487
I'm excited. I'm excited.

1065
00:42:04,555 --> 00:42:06,290
So, what do you think
this would mean to your dad?

1066
00:42:06,491 --> 00:42:08,357
Everything. Everything.

1067
00:42:08,426 --> 00:42:10,760
I really wished we'd have got
a chance to do this

1068
00:42:10,762 --> 00:42:13,497
Before he passed away.

1069
00:42:13,698 --> 00:42:14,832
You did it for your dad.

1070
00:42:15,033 --> 00:42:16,365
You kept pushing,
and you finally got here.

1071
00:42:16,567 --> 00:42:18,334
Yeah. I'm real excited.

1072
00:42:18,503 --> 00:42:22,306
It all clicked. It all came
together the way it should,

1073
00:42:22,507 --> 00:42:25,708
And I really, really, really
appreciated of it.

1074
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:26,976
I want it to come a day

1075
00:42:27,445 --> 00:42:29,646
When aaron and aric come back
through town to visit

1076
00:42:29,848 --> 00:42:31,181
And you've come down here
and meet with them,

1077
00:42:32,517 --> 00:42:33,016
And they all go to your office
and y'all all sit down and talk.

1078
00:42:34,052 --> 00:42:34,751
I didn't even get a chance
to tell him that.

1079
00:42:35,687 --> 00:42:37,453
- You can tell him.
- Yeah. I will.

1080
00:42:37,522 --> 00:42:39,722
All right. Well, let's--
it was very nice meeting you.

1081
00:42:39,924 --> 00:42:40,858
Thank you so much.

1082
00:42:41,059 --> 00:42:44,127
Losing a father
is life-changing,

1083
00:42:44,196 --> 00:42:47,396
Especially if it happens
under traumatic circumstances.

1084
00:42:47,465 --> 00:42:50,833
Tell them boys to call me
or come down and see me.

1085
00:42:50,868 --> 00:42:52,802
I will. Thank you so much.

1086
00:42:52,804 --> 00:42:54,136
- It was nice to meet you.
- Thank you.

1087
00:42:54,205 --> 00:42:56,607
Siegler: We can't help
the two little boys

1088
00:42:56,808 --> 00:42:58,641
That lost their dad,

1089
00:42:58,709 --> 00:43:03,713
But I hope that we can give
two grown men a sense of peace.

1090
00:43:16,528 --> 00:43:18,161
- Tommie?
- Yeah.

1091
00:43:18,362 --> 00:43:20,629
Will you step out here?
We need to speak to you.

1092
00:43:20,698 --> 00:43:24,200
You're under arrest for
the murder of ricky luebbert.

1093
00:43:24,236 --> 00:43:28,838
Siegler: On June 29, 2022,
tommie whetzell was arrested

1094
00:43:28,908 --> 00:43:31,842
For first-degree murder,
armed criminal action,

1095
00:43:32,043 --> 00:43:35,878
And discharge of a firearm
at or from a motor vehicle.