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Kelly siegler: There are
millions of security cameras
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All over this country.
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The average american is caught
on those cameras 34 times a day.
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And for some, that's
the last time they're ever seen.
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Woman: ♪ I don't think
that I can break your fall ♪
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♪ every time I build you up
you make me feel so small ♪
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Siegler: This time
we're in dunlap, tennessee,
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And the chief
has asked our old buddy,
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Bill phillips from
chattanooga pd tennessee
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When we worked with him
eight years ago,
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To come work with us again
on this case.
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- It'd be fun to see him.
- It will.
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- Remember billy goat hill.
- Yeah.
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- That one turned out right.
- It did. They prosecuted that.
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They had a trial.
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In 2014, we assisted
sergeant bill phillips
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In charging lebron hollingsworth
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For the murder
of his estranged wife vicki.
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And now we're here again
working with bill,
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Looking into the disappearance
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Of 42-year-old devoted
grandmother and mother,
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Tiffany holbert.
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Tiffany grew up right here
in this part of tennessee.
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Her kids were here.
Her grandkids were here.
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Spingola: Got all kinds
of mouths to feed.
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Siegler: She worked
at mcdonald's.
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She's trying to get by.
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It's just a harder life that
a lot of people don't realize.
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Tiffany was
a hard-working single mom
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Supporting her daughters
and grandchildren
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Who lived with her.
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After her divorce,
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Tiffany began dating
a younger man,
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And she was probably trying
to maybe find herself
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As she entered
that next chapter of her life.
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She always went for a walk
around this certain area,
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Around the sequatchie dam,
from her trailer.
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And then all of a sudden,
she disappeared.
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The problem is,
could she be alive?
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You know, and all these ideas
that she ran away
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'cause her life was miserable.
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Spingola: On June 13, 2018,
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Tiffany went out
for her nightly walk
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And was never seen
or heard from again.
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A nearby atm captured tiffany
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Getting into her boyfriend
geramie campbell's car.
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When investigators learned
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About possible abuse
in their relationship,
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Geramie became
the prime suspect in this case.
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Steve, I grew up in a world
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Where ladies walk around
all the time with black eyes.
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I can remember
when I was a little girl,
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I'd be standing there saying,
"mom, just leave him."
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And what did mom do?
Took him back.
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It's just setup for the most
volatile situation you can have.
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And I read a case like this
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And think
it's everywhere, steve.
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It's my life. It's not just
our job. It's everywhere.
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[rain pattering]
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Spingola: Oh, this is a mess.
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Puddles are as big as lakes.
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Siegler: I'll take this over
your dang snow.
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Thank you, thank you.
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We almost melted.
Hi. Nice to meet you.
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Chief steve spingola.
Nice to meet you, sir.
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- Lieutenant lindley.
- Detective wallace cunningham.
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Hey, wallace. Nice to see you.
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- And you don't...
- Welcome.
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- Hey, bill.
- How are you?
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- Good to see you, man.
- Kelly. How you doing?
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- Glad to be back home with you.
- Good to have you back.
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Did y'all know that the case
we worked with bill last time
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Ended with very good luck?
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I did.
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Which is kind of what y'all need
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To push it over the edge, right?
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Yes. I hope we can get
some closure for the family.
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Y'all got a good spot
for us to work in?
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- Absolutely.
- All right, let's go.
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Let's go.
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Dunlap pd contracted me
to come in
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To assist with this case.
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And because of my experience
with "cold justice" in the past,
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I knew that this was
a really good opportunity.
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Tiffany missing
has been like something missing
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From this community.
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It's time for some closure
for her daughters,
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Her grandchildren,
and other loved ones.
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So, we can start with
miss tiffany up on the board.
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She was 42.
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Cunningham: From everybody
we've talked to,
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She was a great mom,
devoted grandmother.
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She had five daughters.
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She had recently
been through a separation.
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She's loving and caring.
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You know, the single mother
just trying to get by.
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So, the first thing we can do
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Is let you start running
the case down to us.
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On June 13, 2018
at approximately 6:00 p.M.,
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Tiffany holbert went on a walk
just around the neighborhood,
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Which wasn't unusual.
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The only thing she took with her
was her cellphone.
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A couple hours went by.
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Her daughter had noticed
that she wasn't home yet,
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And she was starting
to worry about her.
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She called her cellphone,
and she never answered.
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Then the following day,
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Her daughter
ended up calling 911
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And reported her mother missing.
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The investigators ended up
getting some atm video.
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Tiffany walks
right in front of the camera.
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You see her make a turn.
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You see her go
onto the parking lot.
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There's a car
that actually pulls up,
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And she gets in
the passenger side of the car
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And they drive off.
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- Describe the car.
- Appeared to be
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A red pontiac bonneville sedan.
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We learned that car
belonged to geramie campbell,
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Which was tiffany's boyfriend.
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- Siegler: Okay.
- The night that she disappeared
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The investigators
asked him about her.
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He said that he hadn't
spoke with her in three months.
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But he changed his tune
when they said,
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"hey, we got atm video."
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Well, when that happened,
the story changed.
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"yeah, she did get
in the car with me.
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We were gonna go to my house."
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But he said they ended up
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Getting into an argument
in the car.
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He said he just let her off
on highway 111
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On the side of the road
and he went home.
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And he had indicated
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That it was somewhere
on top of the mountain
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Where he lets her out.
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Well, the investigators
asked him,
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"can you show us
where she got let out at?"
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He said,
"I've hired an attorney.
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I can't talk to you."
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Although geramie was probably
following his lawyer's advice,
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If he really did
just let tiffany out of his car,
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You would think he would wanna
help law enforcement find her.
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So is it possible that their
argument escalated into murder?
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He was 25.
So, a 17-year difference?
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- Yeah. A 17-year difference.
- Eee.
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Cunningham: He showed her
some affection
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And she just loved him to death.
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But it seemed like it was
pretty common knowledge
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That he was violent
towards tiffany.
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There were rumors of abuse
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Between tiffany and geramie's
three-year relationship.
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We wanna see if there's
any truth to these allegations
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And if it may have played a role
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In what happened
to her that night.
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Is there anything else big
we need to put under geramie?
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He gives them notes.
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Cunningham: He had given
some handwritten notes
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To the investigators that
he said tiffany had wrote him.
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Which is kind of odd.
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According to him,
she had written him a note
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Giving him directions
on where to come pick her up.
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Are we still wondering if they
really came from tiffany?
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Yeah.
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After police approached geramie
with the atm video,
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He gave them a handwritten note
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That he claimed
tiffany had given to him,
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Possibly to show that they had
an amicable relationship.
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On the back were instructions
where to meet her that night.
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We sent that to our handwriting
expert for analysis.
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If it was forged,
that could go a long way
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In proving that geramie
was involved
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And trying to cover his tracks.
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Okay. Now let's talk
about miss gloria.
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Cunningham:
Geramie's campbell's mother.
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- Siegler: She's 44.
- Yeah.
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She was just pretty approximate
to tiffany holbert's age.
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Evidently,
she had instructed him
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Not to bring her to his house.
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Siegler: At the time
of tiffany's disappearance,
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Geramie was living
with his mother, gloria,
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Who did not like tiffany.
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So we have to consider
the possibility
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That if geramie is responsible,
his mom could have helped.
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Approximately five days before
tiffany holbert's disappearance,
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Tiffany had been
in an altercation at a car wash
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With gloria.
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Physical altercation.
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Cunningham: Both holbert
and gloria were arrested.
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Siegler: Okay. The date?
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Yeah. They were set
to go to court on 6/15.
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So just a couple days
after she went missing.
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Siegler: You're trying
to figure out
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Is she, like, mad
about the car wash incident
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To where she's instigating
the whole thing
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To see if she's involved
or if she knows more, huh?
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Cunningham: Yeah.
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Okay. Next, mark coots.
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00:08:05,852 --> 00:08:07,319
How does he know
gloria and geramie?
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- He's their neighbor?
- He's their neighbor.
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Cunningham: When they went
and served the search warrant
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At gloria's house, where geramie
lived with his mother,
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He didn't like that they
were messing with gloria.
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And while they were explaining
the warrant to her,
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That's when coots tried
to come barging in the door.
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Siegler: Okay.
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00:08:22,537 --> 00:08:23,868
Coots was close to this family.
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So the question is,
did he help geramie?
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Cunningham: Yeah.
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Spingola:
Whether he's involved or not,
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Mark coots is right in the
center of this investigation.
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If geramie, gloria,
or both of them killed tiffany,
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It's unlikely
they'll give each other up.
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00:08:36,950 --> 00:08:39,818
So coots could be a co-defendant
or our best witness.
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00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:41,987
All right, we got one more.
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00:08:42,155 --> 00:08:44,723
This is charles o'rafferty.
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00:08:44,791 --> 00:08:47,058
And he's the father
of how many of the kids?
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00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:49,894
- I think all of 'em.
- All of 'em?
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Spingola: Charles o'rafferty
was tiffany's ex-husband.
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00:08:52,866 --> 00:08:55,433
They were childhood sweethearts,
so they have a long history.
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00:08:55,635 --> 00:08:57,635
Charles actually lived
in the area that tiffany did,
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And they shared custody,
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So he had regular contact
with tiffany and the children.
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According to the daughters,
the divorce was mutual.
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00:09:05,178 --> 00:09:07,245
But he's on our suspect board
because who put him up here?
225
00:09:07,314 --> 00:09:08,379
Geramie threw his name
out there.
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00:09:08,915 --> 00:09:11,483
And what did geramie say
specifically about o'rafferty?
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00:09:11,651 --> 00:09:14,385
Cunningham: He said they've had
domestic situations in the past.
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While it's possible that geramie
229
00:09:16,189 --> 00:09:18,790
Was trying to divert
the investigation from himself,
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00:09:18,858 --> 00:09:20,326
It's clear
that we need to learn more
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00:09:20,527 --> 00:09:22,027
About charles's relationship
with tiffany
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00:09:22,229 --> 00:09:24,496
At the time
of the disappearance.
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Siegler: Let's consider the idea
that tiffany just walked away.
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Maybe she just
wasn't happy in her life.
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She had a rough life.
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Overwhelmed--
question mark, right?
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Siegler: Tiffany was struggling
to get by financially.
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00:09:37,611 --> 00:09:40,612
She was supporting multiple
children and grandchildren.
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00:09:40,815 --> 00:09:44,816
She also was dealing with two
hard-of-hearing children.
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00:09:44,884 --> 00:09:47,018
She had just had
a foot procedure done
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Which left her
in a walking boot.
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She was recently divorced,
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00:09:50,657 --> 00:09:52,423
And she was looking
at an upcoming court date.
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00:09:52,493 --> 00:09:55,226
Every kind of trouble
you can have she had.
245
00:09:55,296 --> 00:09:59,764
So she had a lot of reasons
to walk away if she could've.
246
00:09:59,834 --> 00:10:01,966
It's possible that all of that
just overwhelmed her.
247
00:10:02,035 --> 00:10:04,969
But if she's gone
as a result of foul play,
248
00:10:05,038 --> 00:10:06,971
Then we first need
to prove that
249
00:10:07,173 --> 00:10:08,774
And then determine
if one or more of our suspects
250
00:10:08,975 --> 00:10:09,908
Is responsible.
251
00:10:18,451 --> 00:10:20,852
We're gonna go talk
to tiffany's daughters,
252
00:10:20,854 --> 00:10:22,454
Allison and chelsea.
253
00:10:22,656 --> 00:10:24,657
How old are these girls today?
254
00:10:24,858 --> 00:10:27,725
Early 20s. You know,
they all loved their mother.
255
00:10:27,928 --> 00:10:30,661
In missing person cases,
the family's not only dealing
256
00:10:30,730 --> 00:10:32,597
With the loss
of their loved one.
257
00:10:32,667 --> 00:10:34,266
They're looking at uncertainty,
258
00:10:34,467 --> 00:10:37,936
Making it even more difficult
for them to heal.
259
00:10:38,104 --> 00:10:40,605
And after just four years,
260
00:10:40,807 --> 00:10:42,607
I'm sure the pain
is still pretty fresh
261
00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:44,475
With tiffany's daughters.
262
00:10:44,545 --> 00:10:46,679
- Hello, ladies.
- Hello.
263
00:10:49,015 --> 00:10:50,816
Oh, baby, don't be nervous.
264
00:10:52,619 --> 00:10:54,619
This is gonna be okay.
265
00:10:54,689 --> 00:10:56,421
I'm gonna let you
talk about your mom.
266
00:10:56,489 --> 00:10:57,955
I'm gonna ask you
some questions.
267
00:10:58,025 --> 00:10:59,023
What's your name?
268
00:10:59,225 --> 00:11:00,358
- Chelsea.
- You're chelsea?
269
00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:02,026
- And you're allison?
- Yeah.
270
00:11:02,095 --> 00:11:04,429
How about you just tell us
about your mom?
271
00:11:04,631 --> 00:11:06,364
She was a great mom.
272
00:11:06,566 --> 00:11:08,499
She was always there.
273
00:11:08,569 --> 00:11:10,769
She never missed holidays,
birthdays.
274
00:11:10,838 --> 00:11:12,771
How often would you talk to her?
275
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,273
Every day, all day.
276
00:11:14,474 --> 00:11:16,908
- All day long?
- Whenever I felt like it,
277
00:11:16,976 --> 00:11:18,443
I just picked up the phone
and called her.
278
00:11:18,511 --> 00:11:20,244
- Over nothing.
- Over nothing.
279
00:11:20,414 --> 00:11:23,314
My mom was amazing.
She was a hard worker.
280
00:11:23,384 --> 00:11:26,651
She loved her grandkids.
She was always there for us.
281
00:11:32,258 --> 00:11:35,126
Four years ago, did your mom
have anything at all
282
00:11:35,328 --> 00:11:37,529
Going on with your dad?
283
00:11:37,731 --> 00:11:39,130
Chelsea: Just the divorce.
284
00:11:39,332 --> 00:11:40,531
They weren't doing
a back-and-forth relationship,
285
00:11:40,601 --> 00:11:41,966
Romance thing at all?
286
00:11:42,168 --> 00:11:43,735
- Mm-mmm.
- Can you remember
287
00:11:43,803 --> 00:11:46,638
The first time you ever laid
eyes on this new man, geramie?
288
00:11:46,841 --> 00:11:48,940
Yeah. And I couldn't
stand him from day one.
289
00:11:49,008 --> 00:11:50,942
How come?
290
00:11:51,144 --> 00:11:53,478
I just didn't like his attitude
and he was our age.
291
00:11:53,547 --> 00:11:56,681
They had a pretty tumultuous,
I guess, relationship.
292
00:11:56,751 --> 00:11:58,216
Was it physical?
293
00:11:58,284 --> 00:11:59,751
- Yes, it was physical.
- It was physical.
294
00:11:59,819 --> 00:12:01,285
He would always put
his hands on her.
295
00:12:01,488 --> 00:12:03,921
And one time he shoved her
up against the refrigerator
296
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:05,557
In front of all of us.
297
00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:08,093
She had a black eye
at one point, right?
298
00:12:08,294 --> 00:12:09,961
- A big ol' black eye.
- Okay.
299
00:12:10,163 --> 00:12:12,230
It was-it was-it was bad.
300
00:12:12,298 --> 00:12:14,632
Their relationship
changed over time?
301
00:12:14,634 --> 00:12:16,502
Yeah. She had told us
at one point they wasn't dating,
302
00:12:16,703 --> 00:12:18,302
And it was a lie.
303
00:12:18,505 --> 00:12:20,438
Okay. She was still seeing him.
304
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,573
They were just "having sex."
305
00:12:22,643 --> 00:12:24,575
And why do you think your mom
was hiding it from y'all?
306
00:12:24,645 --> 00:12:26,711
'cause she knew
that we didn't like him.
307
00:12:26,781 --> 00:12:30,916
We're gonna try and find out
exactly what happened, okay?
308
00:12:31,117 --> 00:12:34,719
It's just like a nightmare
that never ends.
309
00:12:34,789 --> 00:12:36,187
Well, that's the thing.
310
00:12:36,257 --> 00:12:38,155
Your nightmare's been going on
for four years.
311
00:12:38,259 --> 00:12:40,259
[sobs]
312
00:12:40,460 --> 00:12:42,127
And I think it's time for us
313
00:12:42,328 --> 00:12:44,062
To try and get you
some answers, okay?
314
00:12:44,131 --> 00:12:46,464
Thank you.
We appreciate it.
315
00:12:46,533 --> 00:12:49,201
Tiffany's daughters
are the same age that I was
316
00:12:49,402 --> 00:12:51,737
When I remember
my mom being abused,
317
00:12:51,938 --> 00:12:54,939
And I know what that feels like,
and I know how hopeless you feel
318
00:12:55,008 --> 00:12:57,141
When you look at your mom
going through all that.
319
00:12:57,210 --> 00:12:59,811
- Try not to worry.
- Thank you.
320
00:13:00,013 --> 00:13:01,880
And it makes me just madder
and more determined
321
00:13:01,882 --> 00:13:04,883
To try and get them
some justice and some answers.
322
00:13:16,695 --> 00:13:18,529
Siegler: Heather weaver.
323
00:13:19,566 --> 00:13:21,232
She was really good friends
with tiffany,
324
00:13:21,301 --> 00:13:23,235
So you should get some insights.
325
00:13:23,436 --> 00:13:27,638
In 2018, 42-year-old
mother and grandmother,
326
00:13:27,841 --> 00:13:29,107
Tiffany holbert, disappeared.
327
00:13:29,276 --> 00:13:31,110
The question still remains,
328
00:13:31,311 --> 00:13:33,245
Was she the victim of foul play?
329
00:13:33,446 --> 00:13:36,914
Possibly at the hands
of one or more of our suspects.
330
00:13:36,984 --> 00:13:39,784
Or was she just so overwhelmed
with her life
331
00:13:39,985 --> 00:13:42,688
That she just simply up
and walked away?
332
00:13:42,889 --> 00:13:44,856
[knocking]
333
00:13:45,058 --> 00:13:46,124
Hello there.
334
00:13:46,293 --> 00:13:47,992
We need to learn
all that we can
335
00:13:48,062 --> 00:13:50,595
About tiffany's
relationships, pressures,
336
00:13:50,663 --> 00:13:52,898
And problems she
was dealing with at the time.
337
00:13:53,099 --> 00:13:54,599
So we wanna talk
to everyone we can
338
00:13:54,667 --> 00:13:56,368
Who knew her the very best.
339
00:13:56,569 --> 00:13:59,470
Cunningham: We just wanna talk
a little bit about your cousin.
340
00:13:59,539 --> 00:14:02,473
Tiffany was the most
kindest-hearted person
341
00:14:02,542 --> 00:14:04,776
I've-I've ever known.
342
00:14:04,911 --> 00:14:06,344
She was a great mother.
343
00:14:06,546 --> 00:14:07,879
Every time I ever talked to her,
344
00:14:07,948 --> 00:14:09,280
She was doing something
for the kids,
345
00:14:09,349 --> 00:14:10,815
Doing something
for the grandkids.
346
00:14:11,017 --> 00:14:12,884
You couldn't separate
her and them grandbabies.
347
00:14:12,886 --> 00:14:14,486
You just couldn't.
So when I found out
348
00:14:14,687 --> 00:14:17,021
That she just up and left,
I was shocked.
349
00:14:17,223 --> 00:14:19,757
She would not leave
and not come back.
350
00:14:19,827 --> 00:14:21,426
That's not her.
351
00:14:21,628 --> 00:14:24,096
She was too much of a devoted
mother and grandmother.
352
00:14:24,297 --> 00:14:25,763
Too much.
353
00:14:25,833 --> 00:14:27,899
Cunningham: Did you know
her relationship with geramie?
354
00:14:28,068 --> 00:14:31,001
When she told me
she was dating jerk monkey,
355
00:14:31,038 --> 00:14:33,504
And I was like, "okay.
I wanna meet him."
356
00:14:33,706 --> 00:14:36,574
I did not like the vibe
the first time I met him.
357
00:14:36,644 --> 00:14:38,509
As soon as he shook my hand, I
wanted to punch him in the face.
358
00:14:38,578 --> 00:14:41,045
I'm not gonna lie to you.
I could feel his ego.
359
00:14:41,247 --> 00:14:44,750
I did not like him at all.
I'm gonna get emotional.
360
00:14:44,951 --> 00:14:46,484
Cunningham: Yeah. I know.
It's hard.
361
00:14:46,554 --> 00:14:49,053
Weaver: I hurt for her daughters
and her grandkids.
362
00:14:49,255 --> 00:14:52,791
[sobs]
363
00:14:52,993 --> 00:14:54,725
I'm not much help.
364
00:14:54,794 --> 00:14:56,528
- Oh, yes, you are.
- You've been a great help.
365
00:14:56,729 --> 00:14:58,931
Siegler: You're doing
a lot of help.
366
00:14:59,132 --> 00:15:02,000
It's not enough
to bring her home, though.
367
00:15:10,543 --> 00:15:12,476
Siegler:
Oh, he's already at the door.
368
00:15:12,546 --> 00:15:15,246
- Hey. You charles wynn?
- Yes, sir.
369
00:15:15,248 --> 00:15:18,349
You worked with tiffany holbert
a few years ago at the...
370
00:15:18,419 --> 00:15:20,619
As a matter of fact, my station
was just right in front of hers.
371
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,821
But the thing of it is two weeks
before she disappeared,
372
00:15:23,891 --> 00:15:25,624
She got a management promotion.
373
00:15:25,825 --> 00:15:26,957
Siegler: Can you remember?
374
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,494
Did tiffany pick up
her last paycheck?
375
00:15:29,696 --> 00:15:31,162
- She didn't.
- You remember that?
376
00:15:31,232 --> 00:15:33,698
Yes, ma'am.
If she was gonna up and run,
377
00:15:33,767 --> 00:15:35,766
She'd have come
and got some money.
378
00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:38,235
We already thought that tiffany
probably didn't just walk away,
379
00:15:38,438 --> 00:15:39,637
But when you factor in
380
00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:41,038
That she had just gotten
a promotion at work
381
00:15:41,108 --> 00:15:43,174
She was very excited about
382
00:15:43,244 --> 00:15:45,644
And this woman
who was so financially dire
383
00:15:45,845 --> 00:15:47,646
Didn't pick up
her last paycheck,
384
00:15:47,847 --> 00:15:50,448
It doesn't make any sense that
tiffany would just walk away.
385
00:15:50,650 --> 00:15:52,050
Cunningham: Did you ever see
her boyfriend?
386
00:15:52,251 --> 00:15:54,585
Yeah. I actually had to run him
off the property once.
387
00:15:54,621 --> 00:15:56,989
When I got there,
I was a little late.
388
00:15:57,190 --> 00:15:58,991
And he actually had
his arm in the car.
389
00:15:59,192 --> 00:16:02,059
He was trying to reach in
and grab hold of it.
390
00:16:02,128 --> 00:16:05,329
- Siegler: Did she look scare?
- Oh, yeah.
391
00:16:05,399 --> 00:16:08,399
Oh, she'd tell us stories
about a guy that would just--
392
00:16:08,469 --> 00:16:10,335
I mean,
it would scare you to death.
393
00:16:10,537 --> 00:16:12,270
Siegler: Give us the stories.
394
00:16:12,338 --> 00:16:15,272
Her and her daughter had left
and went to the grocery store.
395
00:16:15,341 --> 00:16:16,941
Well, I guess
they didn't get back in time.
396
00:16:17,143 --> 00:16:18,877
Well, he shows up there,
397
00:16:19,079 --> 00:16:22,280
Literally reaches in the car
and grabs her by the throat
398
00:16:22,348 --> 00:16:24,148
And tries to pull her
through the window.
399
00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:26,351
That's what she had
been telling us.
400
00:16:26,553 --> 00:16:28,887
- Thank y'all very much.
- I appreciate your time.
401
00:16:29,089 --> 00:16:32,490
Charles witnessing
the violent act by geramie
402
00:16:32,693 --> 00:16:34,726
Not only suggests
that the rumors were true,
403
00:16:34,928 --> 00:16:36,628
But if geramie killed her,
404
00:16:36,829 --> 00:16:38,963
It could be a clue
into how he did it.
405
00:16:39,165 --> 00:16:41,632
Woman:
406
00:16:41,701 --> 00:16:43,302
Hi, dawn.
This is detective cunningham
407
00:16:43,503 --> 00:16:44,903
With the dunlap
police department.
408
00:16:45,105 --> 00:16:47,939
We're doing an investigation
into tiffany holbert.
409
00:16:55,648 --> 00:16:58,049
So, you saw bruises.
410
00:16:58,118 --> 00:17:01,619
Did anybody ever ask her
where she got the bruises?
411
00:17:07,660 --> 00:17:08,626
Geramie. Okay.
412
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:19,637
So, she's pretty open
about the abuse.
413
00:17:21,274 --> 00:17:23,408
Siegler: It's common
for victims of abuse
414
00:17:23,509 --> 00:17:25,744
To keep all that hidden
because they're embarrassed
415
00:17:25,945 --> 00:17:27,479
And they don't want people
to know about it
416
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,847
Out of proud or fear.
417
00:17:30,049 --> 00:17:32,150
Fortunately for us, though,
tiffany did talk,
418
00:17:32,351 --> 00:17:35,185
And all of these witnesses
were adding beautiful pieces
419
00:17:35,222 --> 00:17:36,154
To the story.
420
00:17:46,165 --> 00:17:47,465
Mm-hmm.
421
00:17:56,375 --> 00:17:57,575
How you doing?
422
00:17:57,643 --> 00:17:58,843
Hi. I'm diane's
little brother.
423
00:17:59,178 --> 00:18:00,445
Steve spingola.
Nice to meet you.
424
00:18:00,647 --> 00:18:02,413
We've been getting
great information
425
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:05,049
From tiffany's friends about her
allegedly abusive relationship
426
00:18:05,117 --> 00:18:06,450
With geramie.
427
00:18:06,653 --> 00:18:07,786
But we're hoping
she opened up even more
428
00:18:07,987 --> 00:18:09,119
To her father and brother.
429
00:18:09,322 --> 00:18:11,055
We just wanna sit down
with you guys
430
00:18:11,124 --> 00:18:12,623
And ask you a few questions.
431
00:18:12,693 --> 00:18:13,792
Let you tell us what you think
432
00:18:13,993 --> 00:18:16,461
About the relationships
she was in.
433
00:18:16,663 --> 00:18:17,796
Wayne: He used
to smack her around.
434
00:18:17,997 --> 00:18:19,463
You're talking
about geramie now.
435
00:18:19,599 --> 00:18:21,699
Yeah. She'd come home
with black and bruises,
436
00:18:21,767 --> 00:18:23,802
And we'd ask her,
"what happened?"
437
00:18:24,004 --> 00:18:25,370
"oh, I fell."
438
00:18:25,571 --> 00:18:27,472
We knew better.
439
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,474
But she would never tell us
that he would do all this.
440
00:18:30,677 --> 00:18:32,576
But it was all the time.
441
00:18:32,645 --> 00:18:34,545
She'd come home
with black and bruises.
442
00:18:34,614 --> 00:18:36,881
Her eyes black.
443
00:18:36,949 --> 00:18:38,883
Did you know when she would
come home like that
444
00:18:38,952 --> 00:18:40,151
That she had been with geramie?
445
00:18:40,153 --> 00:18:42,087
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
446
00:18:42,288 --> 00:18:43,822
'cause he'd pull up
and drop her off.
447
00:18:44,023 --> 00:18:44,890
Yeah.
448
00:18:49,229 --> 00:18:50,961
You're talking
about o'rafferty?
449
00:18:51,030 --> 00:18:52,430
I mean, he's part
of the investigation.
450
00:18:56,570 --> 00:18:58,270
Well, just tell me
a little about that.
451
00:19:03,776 --> 00:19:05,242
Okay.
452
00:19:05,312 --> 00:19:07,379
We were thinking we'd
be getting more on geramie,
453
00:19:07,580 --> 00:19:09,347
But instead we're
hearing about charles,
454
00:19:09,515 --> 00:19:11,183
And it sounds like
their marriage was a lot worse
455
00:19:11,384 --> 00:19:12,517
Than we initially thought,
456
00:19:12,719 --> 00:19:14,285
And we need to take
a harder look at charles
457
00:19:14,454 --> 00:19:16,187
As a possible suspect.
458
00:19:16,389 --> 00:19:19,423
We need to get something done.
We need to get something done.
459
00:19:32,971 --> 00:19:36,274
That's him.
Just like his picture.
460
00:19:37,009 --> 00:19:38,543
This is a beautiful hill here.
461
00:19:39,845 --> 00:19:41,412
How's it going? I'm wallace.
You care if I call you chucky?
462
00:19:43,683 --> 00:19:44,048
- Or you want me to call you...
- Everybody calls me chuck.
463
00:19:44,049 --> 00:19:44,414
- Chuck?
- Yeah.
464
00:19:45,418 --> 00:19:46,117
Tiffany's ex-husband,
charles o'rafferty,
465
00:19:46,886 --> 00:19:47,718
Became a suspect in this case
466
00:19:48,888 --> 00:19:50,621
After geramie mentioned his name
to law enforcement.
467
00:19:50,691 --> 00:19:51,422
I appreciate
you talking with me.
468
00:19:51,824 --> 00:19:53,090
Well, I ain't got
nothing to hide.
469
00:19:53,494 --> 00:19:56,460
We need to talk to charles about
his relationship with tiffany
470
00:19:56,463 --> 00:19:59,897
And where he may have been on
the night tiffany disappeared.
471
00:20:00,099 --> 00:20:02,800
Cunningham: How old were you
guys when you got together?
472
00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:04,902
Tiffany was like 12,
and I was 13.
473
00:20:04,972 --> 00:20:07,438
So, you probably know her
better than anybody.
474
00:20:07,508 --> 00:20:09,508
- Well, I used to think I did...
- Yeah.
475
00:20:09,709 --> 00:20:11,442
...Until we got a divorce.
476
00:20:11,512 --> 00:20:14,044
How would you describe
your and tiffany's relationship?
477
00:20:14,247 --> 00:20:16,247
I loved her and she loved me.
478
00:20:16,316 --> 00:20:18,048
Did y'all fight?
479
00:20:18,251 --> 00:20:21,286
There was times we'd fight over
certain things like money.
480
00:20:21,487 --> 00:20:25,189
- It didn't get physical.
- No? We argued. No. Uh-uh.
481
00:20:25,391 --> 00:20:26,458
I'd never hit her.
I loved her too much.
482
00:20:26,659 --> 00:20:27,992
- And I still do today.
- Mm-hmm.
483
00:20:28,061 --> 00:20:29,727
When's the last time
you talked to tiffany?
484
00:20:29,929 --> 00:20:31,730
I just got out of jail.
485
00:20:31,931 --> 00:20:33,097
The kids had
a little dinner for me
486
00:20:33,299 --> 00:20:34,532
'cause I just got home.
487
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,133
- Mm-hmm.
- And she was there.
488
00:20:36,203 --> 00:20:37,936
And I said, "why aren't
you outside mingling with us?"
489
00:20:38,137 --> 00:20:39,737
She was on the phone, whatever.
490
00:20:39,939 --> 00:20:41,872
She said, "I'm fine in here,"
and I said, "okay."
491
00:20:42,074 --> 00:20:44,141
- That's kind of the end of it?
- That was the end of it.
492
00:20:44,211 --> 00:20:46,010
That was the last time
I'd ever talk to her.
493
00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:48,346
Who do you think geramie blames
for tiffany going missing?
494
00:20:48,547 --> 00:20:50,148
Probably me.
That's what my girls said.
495
00:20:50,350 --> 00:20:52,082
- Why? He don't know me.
- Mm-hmm.
496
00:20:52,285 --> 00:20:54,752
And I wasn't even around her.
How could I? I had a girlfriend.
497
00:20:54,954 --> 00:20:57,154
Yeah. You had nothing to do
with her going missing?
498
00:20:57,156 --> 00:20:59,356
I have nothing to do
with nothing, sir.
499
00:20:59,426 --> 00:21:01,959
But I wish it was over
one way or another
500
00:21:02,161 --> 00:21:03,494
So my children can rest,
501
00:21:03,564 --> 00:21:05,496
'cause you don't know
how they call me.
502
00:21:05,566 --> 00:21:07,632
And it's hard to be
a strong daddy
503
00:21:07,733 --> 00:21:09,533
When somebody that you love
is not there.
504
00:21:09,568 --> 00:21:10,835
Cunningham: Mm-hmm.
505
00:21:11,036 --> 00:21:12,636
Yeah. It's rough.
506
00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:15,372
You can tell he still loves her
even after their divorce,
507
00:21:15,442 --> 00:21:16,908
And he seems sincere.
508
00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:18,575
He's trying to be there
for his daughters
509
00:21:18,778 --> 00:21:20,044
After the loss of their mother.
510
00:21:20,113 --> 00:21:21,779
More decent
than I'd thought he would be.
511
00:21:21,848 --> 00:21:24,883
Seems like he's-he's authentic.
512
00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:29,054
[line ringing]
513
00:21:29,255 --> 00:21:30,788
Hey, elisha.
514
00:21:30,990 --> 00:21:32,923
This is wallace up here
at the police department.
515
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,659
Now that we've talked
to tiffany's ex-husband,
516
00:21:35,729 --> 00:21:37,195
We're gonna turn our focus back
517
00:21:37,397 --> 00:21:39,596
To the other man in her life,
geramie campbell.
518
00:21:39,665 --> 00:21:41,799
The day before tiffany
went missing,
519
00:21:41,935 --> 00:21:44,869
According to reports, she saw
her friend elisha green,
520
00:21:44,938 --> 00:21:47,337
Who handled her car loan
at the local bank.
521
00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:51,809
You had talked with her
the day before she went missing
522
00:21:51,877 --> 00:21:53,345
At the american trust.
523
00:21:53,546 --> 00:21:55,880
Do you remember anything
about that day?
524
00:22:06,025 --> 00:22:08,293
Well, what did she say
about her boyfriend?
525
00:22:10,363 --> 00:22:12,463
You think
she was scared of him?
526
00:22:14,901 --> 00:22:15,767
Okay.
527
00:22:17,970 --> 00:22:18,869
Yeah.
528
00:22:20,506 --> 00:22:22,907
Oh, really?
What makes you say that?
529
00:22:23,976 --> 00:22:25,109
Yeah.
530
00:22:26,913 --> 00:22:28,913
Yeah.
531
00:22:28,982 --> 00:22:30,782
Oh. He would say stuff
like that?
532
00:22:33,052 --> 00:22:34,552
Wow.
533
00:22:45,397 --> 00:22:48,265
- Mr. Sperry, can you hear us?
- I can hear you, yes.
534
00:22:48,335 --> 00:22:49,934
Okay, guys,
this is grant sperry.
535
00:22:50,136 --> 00:22:52,269
He is
a handwriting analysis expert,
536
00:22:52,339 --> 00:22:54,471
So let's see if he can bring us
some luck today.
537
00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:55,806
With everything
that we're learning
538
00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:58,142
About tiffany
and geramie's relationship,
539
00:22:58,211 --> 00:23:00,945
It's time to take
a closer look at the love note
540
00:23:01,147 --> 00:23:02,680
That he gave law enforcement
541
00:23:02,748 --> 00:23:05,115
After being confronted
with the atm video.
542
00:23:05,185 --> 00:23:07,150
He claimed that she wrote it
543
00:23:07,187 --> 00:23:09,653
As well as the instructions
on the back
544
00:23:09,690 --> 00:23:13,624
About when and where to meet
the very day she went missing.
545
00:23:13,694 --> 00:23:15,159
We sent the note
546
00:23:15,227 --> 00:23:17,628
And some handwriting examples
from tiffany
547
00:23:17,698 --> 00:23:19,496
To our handwriting expert
for comparison.
548
00:23:19,566 --> 00:23:21,966
If the note is a forgery,
549
00:23:22,168 --> 00:23:24,768
That could be a huge piece
of circumstantial evidence
550
00:23:24,971 --> 00:23:26,970
Where geramie was trying
to cover up his involvement.
551
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,174
Tell us what you got,
mr. Sperry.
552
00:23:29,375 --> 00:23:32,176
Detective cunningham submitted
553
00:23:32,245 --> 00:23:36,180
A number of note writings
of tiffany holbert.
554
00:23:36,249 --> 00:23:41,051
So I compared the note writings
to "I love you, geramie"
555
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,586
Which is on the front
of this note.
556
00:23:42,788 --> 00:23:45,055
And I had absolutely
no difficulty
557
00:23:45,124 --> 00:23:48,926
In concluding
that it was written by tiffany.
558
00:23:49,128 --> 00:23:54,131
So then I began a comparison
of the p.S. Related entry
559
00:23:54,333 --> 00:23:56,401
To these note writings,
560
00:23:56,602 --> 00:23:59,236
And I found
a number of differences.
561
00:23:59,305 --> 00:24:03,640
This "d" is made
in this fashion here.
562
00:24:04,610 --> 00:24:07,811
And the d's
throughout the note writings
563
00:24:07,881 --> 00:24:10,080
Are more of a cursive-style "d."
564
00:24:10,149 --> 00:24:12,149
Also the a's,
565
00:24:12,351 --> 00:24:15,086
The staff of the "a"
566
00:24:15,287 --> 00:24:19,489
Is more abbreviated than we have
in the "a" in "and."
567
00:24:19,692 --> 00:24:22,092
There are differences.
568
00:24:22,194 --> 00:24:23,460
One of the things
that was significant,
569
00:24:23,663 --> 00:24:24,962
And I just touched on here.
570
00:24:25,098 --> 00:24:27,030
Remember what I said earlier
571
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:30,100
That this "I love you, geramie,"
572
00:24:30,302 --> 00:24:32,936
It was written by tiffany.
573
00:24:33,005 --> 00:24:35,505
But these entries
in this postscript
574
00:24:35,708 --> 00:24:37,441
Are totally inconsistent
with the habits
575
00:24:37,643 --> 00:24:39,911
That we have represented
in "I love you, geramie."
576
00:24:40,112 --> 00:24:42,347
So these were penned
at a different time
577
00:24:42,548 --> 00:24:44,648
Which could explain
the differences
578
00:24:44,717 --> 00:24:47,051
In some of the writing features
and characteristics.
579
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:48,919
The writing on the back
580
00:24:48,989 --> 00:24:52,656
Is not consistent
or contemporaneous
581
00:24:52,858 --> 00:24:53,991
With the writing on the front?
582
00:24:54,127 --> 00:24:55,459
- That's correct.
- Okay.
583
00:24:55,528 --> 00:24:58,463
I mean, that's pretty good.
584
00:24:58,664 --> 00:25:00,397
If the notes
on the front and the back
585
00:25:00,467 --> 00:25:01,699
Were written
at different times,
586
00:25:01,868 --> 00:25:03,935
It raises the possibility
587
00:25:04,136 --> 00:25:07,170
That geramie wrote
or had somebody else write
588
00:25:07,373 --> 00:25:10,140
The instructions
for meeting tiffany on the back.
589
00:25:10,209 --> 00:25:13,143
But why take all that risk
of forging a note
590
00:25:13,212 --> 00:25:15,947
Just to show that tiffany
wanted to see him that night?
591
00:25:16,148 --> 00:25:19,349
You're thinking the bright green
writing got on there later
592
00:25:19,418 --> 00:25:21,651
With somebody else.
593
00:25:21,688 --> 00:25:23,153
Everything he just told us
594
00:25:23,222 --> 00:25:26,157
Is still consistent
with that theory. Okay.
595
00:25:37,570 --> 00:25:38,936
Well, have you thought about
596
00:25:39,170 --> 00:25:41,940
That if you didn't have
that atm camera shot
597
00:25:42,808 --> 00:25:44,241
Where your case would be
without it?
598
00:25:44,443 --> 00:25:45,375
I don't know
if we'd have a case.
599
00:25:45,577 --> 00:25:46,643
I know.
600
00:25:46,712 --> 00:25:48,378
We know from our atm video
601
00:25:48,581 --> 00:25:50,915
That tiffany holbert got into
our suspect geramie campbell's
602
00:25:51,117 --> 00:25:53,784
Maroon pontiac
and they drove off.
603
00:25:53,854 --> 00:25:57,187
But in the hopes of trying
to better understand her mindset
604
00:25:57,389 --> 00:25:59,457
In those final moments,
605
00:25:59,659 --> 00:26:01,391
We wanna take the walk
that she did
606
00:26:01,594 --> 00:26:02,493
From her trailer to the bank.
607
00:26:04,663 --> 00:26:07,197
This is our trailer.
Help me understand the walk.
608
00:26:07,266 --> 00:26:10,067
Tiffany made
this little routine walk.
609
00:26:10,135 --> 00:26:12,670
This day she walked
a little longer than normal,
610
00:26:12,871 --> 00:26:14,872
And she didn't have
her grandkids with her.
611
00:26:14,941 --> 00:26:17,275
So I guess she would
come out the steps there.
612
00:26:17,376 --> 00:26:20,344
She would go down
the gravel drive, turn left.
613
00:26:20,413 --> 00:26:21,745
Siegler: So let's walk up
614
00:26:21,947 --> 00:26:24,382
To appreciate
kind of where she's going.
615
00:26:24,583 --> 00:26:27,517
As I walk
in tiffany's footsteps,
616
00:26:27,587 --> 00:26:31,688
I appreciate
how at the age of 42 years old,
617
00:26:31,758 --> 00:26:35,292
She was trying so hard
to regain her youth,
618
00:26:35,362 --> 00:26:39,697
And then she hooks up with this
guy so much younger than her
619
00:26:39,898 --> 00:26:42,532
Who was allegedly abusing her,
620
00:26:42,735 --> 00:26:44,501
And all she was trying to do
621
00:26:44,571 --> 00:26:47,071
Was do everything she could
to please him to keep him happy.
622
00:26:49,041 --> 00:26:50,975
This is a really good walk
on a hurt leg.
623
00:26:52,511 --> 00:26:54,645
She gets up somewhere,
I believe, in this area.
624
00:26:54,714 --> 00:26:55,779
Siegler: Okay.
625
00:26:55,882 --> 00:26:57,681
Phillips: And then you see
626
00:26:57,883 --> 00:26:59,716
The maroon vehicle
pull onto that lot.
627
00:26:59,786 --> 00:27:02,252
Siegler: Okay, so that's where
we first see the red car.
628
00:27:02,255 --> 00:27:04,521
This is when tiffany
throws her hands up.
629
00:27:04,591 --> 00:27:06,323
Siegler: Why do you think
she does that?
630
00:27:06,525 --> 00:27:09,292
I think she's frustrated because
now she's got to walk there.
631
00:27:09,294 --> 00:27:12,596
So then she just
walks across the street.
632
00:27:12,665 --> 00:27:14,731
He made no effort
to make this easier on her.
633
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,700
Siegler: No.
634
00:27:17,536 --> 00:27:20,137
Okay, so, here's
where he stopped, right?
635
00:27:20,205 --> 00:27:21,872
So, tiffany comes up.
636
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,074
The passenger door opens.
637
00:27:24,143 --> 00:27:26,276
She goes in the vehicle,
and then the door closes.
638
00:27:26,345 --> 00:27:27,545
Siegler: Okay.
639
00:27:27,747 --> 00:27:30,213
And the car takes off
pretty quickly.
640
00:27:30,315 --> 00:27:32,683
That way, toward highway 111.
641
00:27:32,752 --> 00:27:34,351
Siegler: And we don't know
which way it goes on 111, huh?
642
00:27:34,553 --> 00:27:36,286
- Can't tell.
- Can't tell. Okay.
643
00:27:36,488 --> 00:27:39,623
'cause, steve, he's not taking
her somewhere to start a fight.
644
00:27:39,691 --> 00:27:41,491
He's taking her somewhere
to get some.
645
00:27:41,693 --> 00:27:42,959
I don't think
they ever got that far.
646
00:27:42,963 --> 00:27:44,895
Ah, he's gonna have sex.
647
00:27:45,030 --> 00:27:46,430
That's the only thing
he can think about.
648
00:27:46,499 --> 00:27:48,298
We don't know what geramie's
attentions were that night.
649
00:27:48,367 --> 00:27:49,766
The police searched his vehicle
650
00:27:49,836 --> 00:27:51,802
And found no evidence
of sexual intercourse
651
00:27:51,837 --> 00:27:53,170
Or a struggle.
652
00:27:53,305 --> 00:27:55,906
Maybe an analysis
of geramie's text messages
653
00:27:56,041 --> 00:27:58,642
Will give us an indication of
his state of mind that evening.
654
00:27:58,844 --> 00:28:01,511
So, the last time you ever see
tiffany alive is right here.
655
00:28:01,580 --> 00:28:04,114
Right here.
That's the last known video
656
00:28:04,183 --> 00:28:07,184
Of her being alive or anywhere.
657
00:28:07,386 --> 00:28:09,252
Siegler: Dang.
That's just luck, you know.
658
00:28:09,322 --> 00:28:11,255
She happened to walk
in front of that camera.
659
00:28:18,297 --> 00:28:20,864
- This is eric devlin.
- How are you? Eric devlin.
660
00:28:20,933 --> 00:28:22,265
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
661
00:28:22,335 --> 00:28:24,067
Siegler: In a case
that's only four years old,
662
00:28:24,203 --> 00:28:26,671
Cellphones could provide
the key piece of evidence
663
00:28:26,872 --> 00:28:28,205
That we're looking for.
664
00:28:28,407 --> 00:28:30,073
Unfortunately, tiffany's phone
665
00:28:30,143 --> 00:28:32,609
Was quickly powered off
and never recovered,
666
00:28:32,679 --> 00:28:36,313
So tower location and data
are not available
667
00:28:36,381 --> 00:28:38,482
And geramie
did not have a phone.
668
00:28:38,551 --> 00:28:42,153
However, he did use
a messaging app called textnow.
669
00:28:42,354 --> 00:28:44,322
- You ready to get started?
- Siegler: Yes.
670
00:28:44,523 --> 00:28:46,957
Our digital forensics expert,
eric devlin,
671
00:28:47,027 --> 00:28:50,161
Was able to examine
recovered messages
672
00:28:50,362 --> 00:28:53,897
Between tiffany and geramie from
the day of her disappearance.
673
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:56,233
Maybe there's something said
between them
674
00:28:56,435 --> 00:28:58,836
That points to geramie
as her killer.
675
00:28:59,037 --> 00:29:01,773
This is the text messages
on geramie's account
676
00:29:01,974 --> 00:29:03,507
Regarding tiffany.
677
00:29:03,575 --> 00:29:06,443
They're bickering
back and forth on 6/13.
678
00:29:06,645 --> 00:29:07,577
- Our day of.
- Correct.
679
00:29:07,779 --> 00:29:09,180
- Okay.
- June 13th,
680
00:29:09,382 --> 00:29:10,682
Tiffany sends geramie...
681
00:29:25,464 --> 00:29:26,497
Geramie then replies...
682
00:29:28,801 --> 00:29:30,034
Tiffany then replies...
683
00:29:33,438 --> 00:29:35,673
So, they're talking about
dumping and breaking up here.
684
00:29:35,875 --> 00:29:37,341
- She's worried to death...
- Yeah.
685
00:29:37,410 --> 00:29:38,741
...He's gonna not talk to her.
686
00:29:38,811 --> 00:29:40,310
Devlin: Tiffany replies...
687
00:29:44,016 --> 00:29:45,349
Geramie replies...
688
00:29:52,391 --> 00:29:54,057
He's horny,
and she's trying to say,
689
00:29:54,094 --> 00:29:55,759
"I took my boot off,
but I'm in pain.
690
00:29:55,961 --> 00:29:57,494
I'm really not feeling
like sex right now, dude,"
691
00:29:57,564 --> 00:29:58,895
And he's still going.
692
00:29:58,964 --> 00:30:00,564
- That's exactly what it is.
- He's horny.
693
00:30:00,633 --> 00:30:01,732
Devlin: Tiffany replies...
694
00:30:16,181 --> 00:30:18,449
Geramie replies at 5:36 p.M...
695
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:21,719
5:36 he's leaving.
696
00:30:21,921 --> 00:30:24,255
Devlin: Tiffany replies...
697
00:30:27,526 --> 00:30:29,593
She's bringing up black eyes.
698
00:30:29,728 --> 00:30:31,661
- Right.
- Like it's a reminder.
699
00:30:31,730 --> 00:30:33,197
Good god.
700
00:30:33,399 --> 00:30:36,400
When you hear the nature
of their relationship
701
00:30:36,602 --> 00:30:41,538
And how horribly mean
geramie is to tiffany,
702
00:30:41,608 --> 00:30:44,808
You can kind of feel
how borderline desperate she is
703
00:30:44,877 --> 00:30:46,743
To try and keep
that relationship going,
704
00:30:46,813 --> 00:30:48,478
Which makes it
really, really sad.
705
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,281
I don't know where
we're ever gonna get a case
706
00:30:50,482 --> 00:30:52,817
That has this much information
just from text messages.
707
00:30:53,018 --> 00:30:54,017
It's wonderful.
708
00:30:54,153 --> 00:30:55,652
What also is interesting here,
709
00:30:55,721 --> 00:30:57,754
Starting at the one
at 5:00 p.M.,
710
00:30:57,856 --> 00:30:59,723
These messages are actually all
deleted at this point in time.
711
00:30:59,725 --> 00:31:01,358
All these are deleted messages?
712
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,160
- Devlin: Yep.
- Oh!
713
00:31:03,228 --> 00:31:05,462
Our records show
that these texts
714
00:31:05,664 --> 00:31:09,266
Were the last time that geramie
ever contacted tiffany,
715
00:31:09,335 --> 00:31:12,303
And they were deleted
possibly by geramie,
716
00:31:12,504 --> 00:31:14,971
Initially trying to hide
the fact that they had met up.
717
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,974
Is it possible
that after the police department
718
00:31:17,175 --> 00:31:18,975
Confronted him with the video
719
00:31:19,044 --> 00:31:21,178
Showing her
getting into his car
720
00:31:21,246 --> 00:31:23,413
He felt he needed to explain
721
00:31:23,483 --> 00:31:26,584
How he knew when and where
to meet her that day?
722
00:31:26,785 --> 00:31:29,819
So he took an old love note
she had written,
723
00:31:29,889 --> 00:31:31,855
Added the instructions
on the back
724
00:31:31,923 --> 00:31:33,523
And gave them to the police.
725
00:31:33,859 --> 00:31:35,326
This "I love you, geramie"
726
00:31:35,527 --> 00:31:38,295
And this postscript
are totally inconsistent.
727
00:31:38,297 --> 00:31:41,064
So these were penned
at a different time.
728
00:31:41,266 --> 00:31:43,634
Was geramie going
through extra efforts
729
00:31:43,836 --> 00:31:45,268
To cover his tracks?
730
00:31:45,471 --> 00:31:47,772
It shows time. It shows motive.
731
00:31:47,973 --> 00:31:49,607
It shows mindset.
It shows everything.
732
00:32:02,820 --> 00:32:06,524
Spingola: Mark charles coots.
He's the neighbor of paulet.
733
00:32:07,259 --> 00:32:07,959
You know, he was pretty docile
734
00:32:08,961 --> 00:32:09,160
Up until they served
the search warrant
735
00:32:09,761 --> 00:32:10,628
That he went zonkers.
736
00:32:11,563 --> 00:32:12,362
- What business is of yours?
- Yeah.
737
00:32:13,465 --> 00:32:14,899
Mark coots placed himself
on law enforcement radar
738
00:32:16,034 --> 00:32:17,300
When he became hostile
as law enforcement attempted
739
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:18,835
To search geramie
and his mother's trailer.
740
00:32:18,905 --> 00:32:21,305
Hey. How you doing?
You mr. Coots?
741
00:32:21,507 --> 00:32:22,907
Yeah.
742
00:32:23,108 --> 00:32:24,908
Was he innocently
protecting his friends
743
00:32:24,977 --> 00:32:27,244
Or interfering with police
when they were attempting
744
00:32:27,312 --> 00:32:29,379
To uncover evidence
in the murder of tiffany?
745
00:32:29,449 --> 00:32:33,249
Geramie and his mom,
they was good neighbors.
746
00:32:33,452 --> 00:32:34,919
Good friends.
747
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,388
Geramie used to come here
to hang out,
748
00:32:37,589 --> 00:32:40,390
'cause I was like
his second dad.
749
00:32:40,459 --> 00:32:44,661
What does he say about her being
gone and nobody can find her?
750
00:32:44,731 --> 00:32:48,231
Coots: She told him
to come over or something
751
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:50,934
Up there in dunlap somewhere
where she lived at.
752
00:32:51,003 --> 00:32:53,603
And he went up there.
He was in the red car.
753
00:32:53,672 --> 00:32:56,607
They drove off and left,
754
00:32:56,808 --> 00:33:00,210
And they went down the road
and sat and talked.
755
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,412
They got into an argument.
756
00:33:02,481 --> 00:33:06,683
She seen somebody she knew
in a white pickup truck.
757
00:33:06,885 --> 00:33:09,620
So she jumped out of the car.
758
00:33:09,821 --> 00:33:13,423
She got out of the car
and told geramie, "[bleep] you,"
759
00:33:13,493 --> 00:33:15,625
And she got in the truck
760
00:33:15,694 --> 00:33:19,363
With some man
in a white pickup truck.
761
00:33:19,565 --> 00:33:23,166
And I don't quite believe that,
but that's geramie's story.
762
00:33:23,235 --> 00:33:26,102
Mark coots is giving us a new
version of geramie's story--
763
00:33:26,172 --> 00:33:28,304
That tiffany drove off
in a white pickup truck.
764
00:33:28,373 --> 00:33:30,240
If he was involved with geramie,
765
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:32,242
It doesn't make much sense that
their stories wouldn't match.
766
00:33:32,312 --> 00:33:33,843
This sounds more like geramie
767
00:33:33,912 --> 00:33:35,246
Couldn't keep
his story straight.
768
00:33:35,447 --> 00:33:38,915
No bull[bleep].
You think geramie killed her?
769
00:33:38,985 --> 00:33:41,851
Well, I didn't think so,
770
00:33:42,053 --> 00:33:44,654
But the way
he turns that glock...
771
00:33:44,723 --> 00:33:46,457
- The gun.
- ...The gun...All the time.
772
00:33:46,658 --> 00:33:49,325
And he's got a bad attitude.
773
00:33:49,528 --> 00:33:51,762
He's mean, real mean.
774
00:33:51,964 --> 00:33:54,063
And when it comes to women,
775
00:33:54,266 --> 00:33:57,802
He's kind of like
a controlling womanizer.
776
00:33:58,003 --> 00:33:59,736
So, would you say that geramie
777
00:33:59,806 --> 00:34:01,405
Was controlling of tiffany
when she was around?
778
00:34:01,607 --> 00:34:02,806
Oh, yeah.
779
00:34:02,875 --> 00:34:04,741
How did she act
in response to that?
780
00:34:04,943 --> 00:34:06,276
She was kind of timid.
781
00:34:06,346 --> 00:34:08,278
From one minute he'll be right,
782
00:34:08,348 --> 00:34:10,480
And then like
you hit a light switch.
783
00:34:10,549 --> 00:34:13,750
The next minute,
it's just like he flips his wig,
784
00:34:13,820 --> 00:34:16,419
And he'll just...
785
00:34:16,489 --> 00:34:18,621
I don't know. He just lose it.
786
00:34:18,691 --> 00:34:21,357
His own mother would be scared
of him to a point.
787
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:22,626
Do you remember
when they served
788
00:34:22,828 --> 00:34:24,027
The search warrant
on the trailer?
789
00:34:24,229 --> 00:34:26,062
At which time?
790
00:34:26,265 --> 00:34:28,965
They raided that place
four or five times over here.
791
00:34:29,035 --> 00:34:30,567
So, did you ever talk to him
792
00:34:30,635 --> 00:34:32,836
About why they served
any search warrants on him?
793
00:34:32,905 --> 00:34:34,571
He said they're looking
for stuff
794
00:34:34,773 --> 00:34:37,308
To tie him to tiffany.
795
00:34:37,509 --> 00:34:39,809
Mark coots seems like
he's being up-front and honest
796
00:34:39,879 --> 00:34:41,378
About what he knows
797
00:34:41,446 --> 00:34:43,380
And about his relationship
with geramie and gloria.
798
00:34:43,448 --> 00:34:44,981
If he was trying
to protect them back then,
799
00:34:45,051 --> 00:34:46,850
It feels like
as time has passed
800
00:34:46,919 --> 00:34:48,585
So does his allegiance
to geramie and gloria.
801
00:34:48,653 --> 00:34:51,789
He's looking more like a witness
and less like a suspect.
802
00:34:51,890 --> 00:34:54,324
If he told he'd killed her,
would you tell us?
803
00:34:54,394 --> 00:34:57,260
Oh, yeah. I would be
the first one on the phone
804
00:34:57,330 --> 00:34:58,995
To tell you he did.
805
00:34:59,065 --> 00:35:01,799
If y'all can prove it
on geramie, hey, good.
806
00:35:07,339 --> 00:35:09,206
[line ringing]
807
00:35:09,407 --> 00:35:10,808
Woman:
808
00:35:11,009 --> 00:35:13,209
Hello. My name
is detective wallace cunningham
809
00:35:13,278 --> 00:35:14,678
With the dunlap
police department.
810
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,480
I'm trying to reach
gloria paulet.
811
00:35:17,482 --> 00:35:19,282
Siegler: We're trying
to find geramie
812
00:35:19,351 --> 00:35:22,785
Who we believe is out in
california with his mom gloria,
813
00:35:22,988 --> 00:35:25,021
And we have questions
for her, too.
814
00:35:25,091 --> 00:35:26,824
So we're gonna give her a call,
815
00:35:27,025 --> 00:35:29,025
Trying to kill two birds
with one stone,
816
00:35:29,095 --> 00:35:30,694
Hoping to get answers
from both of 'em.
817
00:35:30,896 --> 00:35:33,163
I'm still investigating
a missing person case.
818
00:35:36,101 --> 00:35:38,001
Yeah. There's quite
a bit of age difference
819
00:35:38,203 --> 00:35:39,702
Between her and geramie.
820
00:35:39,772 --> 00:35:42,206
She was a lot closer to your age
than she was his.
821
00:35:42,407 --> 00:35:44,374
And what did you
think about that?
822
00:35:46,111 --> 00:35:47,744
Oh, yeah. Not at all.
823
00:36:02,127 --> 00:36:03,726
Siegler: It seems like
gloria's really trying
824
00:36:03,796 --> 00:36:06,530
To push the idea
that tiffany just skipped town.
825
00:36:06,631 --> 00:36:09,866
Could it be a way to try and get
the focus off of her son?
826
00:36:09,936 --> 00:36:12,402
Geramie was the last person
to see her.
827
00:36:12,472 --> 00:36:15,105
He picked her up in the car,
and then he said he let her out.
828
00:36:18,076 --> 00:36:19,209
Mm-hmm.
829
00:36:30,488 --> 00:36:31,422
Mm-hmm.
830
00:36:33,024 --> 00:36:34,958
Is geramie living with you?
831
00:36:36,962 --> 00:36:38,795
I would like to talk to him.
832
00:36:42,434 --> 00:36:43,367
Yeah.
833
00:36:47,105 --> 00:36:50,506
But all right. Well, it was good
talking to you.
834
00:36:50,575 --> 00:36:53,376
We don't have contact
information for geramie's dad.
835
00:36:53,578 --> 00:36:55,579
Gloria would not
provide that to us.
836
00:36:55,781 --> 00:36:57,514
Even if we got a hold
of his dad,
837
00:36:57,582 --> 00:36:59,116
He's gonna run interference
for his son.
838
00:36:59,217 --> 00:37:02,218
Geramie got an attorney
way back then,
839
00:37:02,421 --> 00:37:04,020
So it's not very likely
840
00:37:04,089 --> 00:37:05,789
That geramie
would even talk to us.
841
00:37:05,858 --> 00:37:07,524
Cunningham: She's very defensive
of geramie.
842
00:37:07,592 --> 00:37:09,527
Of course she is.
That's his mama.
843
00:37:19,870 --> 00:37:24,708
So, why don't we go through
all the people up on the board.
844
00:37:25,744 --> 00:37:26,710
When we started,
did you say that your chief
845
00:37:27,946 --> 00:37:28,679
Might wanna come in here
and listen in to all of this?
846
00:37:29,948 --> 00:37:30,647
Yeah. You want me to check
on that, see if he's ready?
847
00:37:31,817 --> 00:37:32,950
- Go get him, see if he's ready.
- Okay. Just a second.
848
00:37:33,219 --> 00:37:35,084
Siegler: Even though
we weren't able
849
00:37:35,154 --> 00:37:37,987
To directly question our primary
suspect, geramie campbell,
850
00:37:38,057 --> 00:37:39,689
We're feeling pretty good
about this case.
851
00:37:39,758 --> 00:37:42,058
He's ready.
852
00:37:42,393 --> 00:37:44,527
Chief randy phillips
is gonna join us
853
00:37:44,663 --> 00:37:47,563
To help us review everything
we've learned about our suspects
854
00:37:47,766 --> 00:37:49,966
And the possibility
that tiffany holbert
855
00:37:50,101 --> 00:37:51,534
Just left on her own.
856
00:37:51,737 --> 00:37:53,704
So, did she walk away?
857
00:37:53,905 --> 00:37:55,838
We spoke to all
her family, friends.
858
00:37:55,908 --> 00:37:57,840
That's so out of character
for her.
859
00:37:57,910 --> 00:38:00,175
She wouldn't walk away
from her grandkids.
860
00:38:00,178 --> 00:38:02,912
He was too much of a devoted
mother and grandmother.
861
00:38:03,114 --> 00:38:04,881
She never picked up
her last paycheck.
862
00:38:05,082 --> 00:38:06,149
If she was gonna up and run,
863
00:38:06,351 --> 00:38:07,317
She'd have come
and got some money.
864
00:38:07,385 --> 00:38:09,520
People who were holding out hope
in the beginning,
865
00:38:09,721 --> 00:38:11,454
I think even those people
are now realizing
866
00:38:11,656 --> 00:38:12,990
That tiffany's not coming back.
867
00:38:13,191 --> 00:38:15,925
So, walked away. Everybody's
in agreement on that.
868
00:38:15,994 --> 00:38:17,727
- Chief, you, too?
- I don't see anything
869
00:38:17,797 --> 00:38:20,164
That points to the fact
that she walked away.
870
00:38:20,365 --> 00:38:22,932
So, charles o'rafferty,
tiffany's ex-husband,
871
00:38:23,001 --> 00:38:24,068
The father
of all of her children.
872
00:38:24,269 --> 00:38:26,069
They did argue and fight some,
873
00:38:26,137 --> 00:38:28,105
But he said
it never turned physical.
874
00:38:28,307 --> 00:38:29,672
I'd never hit her.
I loved her too much
875
00:38:29,875 --> 00:38:31,474
And still do today.
876
00:38:31,543 --> 00:38:34,345
He was as honest as anybody
I talked to in this case at all.
877
00:38:34,546 --> 00:38:36,145
And he's only
on our board because...
878
00:38:36,347 --> 00:38:37,613
Geramie threw
his name out there.
879
00:38:37,816 --> 00:38:39,482
So, everybody's good
880
00:38:39,551 --> 00:38:41,217
With taking charles o'rafferty
off the suspect board.
881
00:38:41,286 --> 00:38:43,152
- Cunningham: Yes.
- Now we're getting over here.
882
00:38:43,355 --> 00:38:45,821
Let's see what we think
about mr. Mark coots.
883
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:47,558
He actually questioned geramie
a little bit
884
00:38:47,759 --> 00:38:49,192
About what was going on
with tiffany.
885
00:38:49,394 --> 00:38:51,094
She got in the car
with some man
886
00:38:51,163 --> 00:38:54,030
In a white pickup truck.
887
00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:57,568
And I don't quite believe that,
but that's geramie's story.
888
00:38:57,769 --> 00:38:59,269
Mark coots. Everybody's good
889
00:38:59,338 --> 00:39:01,971
With scratching him
off the board as a suspect.
890
00:39:02,173 --> 00:39:05,208
Okay. What do we do
with gloria paulet, his mother?
891
00:39:05,410 --> 00:39:06,644
I don't think you'll
ever gonna be able
892
00:39:06,845 --> 00:39:08,845
To prove that gloria's involved
with this here,
893
00:39:08,981 --> 00:39:10,981
Because I don't think she is.
894
00:39:15,787 --> 00:39:17,453
Cunningham: Mm-hmm.
895
00:39:18,524 --> 00:39:21,891
We considered the idea that
gloria might have been involved
896
00:39:21,961 --> 00:39:24,160
Because she did
not like tiffany
897
00:39:24,363 --> 00:39:27,296
And they were involved
in a physical altercation.
898
00:39:27,366 --> 00:39:31,000
Maybe gloria was just protecting
her son back then, too,
899
00:39:31,069 --> 00:39:34,238
But we did not uncover
any additional evidence
900
00:39:34,439 --> 00:39:36,606
That shows that gloria
played a part
901
00:39:36,676 --> 00:39:38,074
In tiffany's disappearance.
902
00:39:38,144 --> 00:39:41,277
An overprotective,
loving mother is one thing.
903
00:39:41,347 --> 00:39:43,780
A co-defendant
is something else.
904
00:39:43,915 --> 00:39:44,848
I'm in agreement.
905
00:39:46,918 --> 00:39:49,286
Okay. Geramie.
906
00:39:49,487 --> 00:39:52,355
At first he did not
seen tiffany for three months
907
00:39:52,423 --> 00:39:54,825
Until he was confronted
with the evidence.
908
00:39:55,026 --> 00:39:58,028
"hey, buddy, we have you
on video picking her up."
909
00:39:58,229 --> 00:40:01,432
Co-workers knew that geramie
was beating tiffany.
910
00:40:03,835 --> 00:40:05,502
Well, he shows up there,
911
00:40:05,703 --> 00:40:08,706
Literally reaches in the car
and grabs her by the throat.
912
00:40:08,907 --> 00:40:10,706
He tries to pull her
through the window.
913
00:40:10,775 --> 00:40:13,509
How about what tiffany
told elisha green
914
00:40:13,578 --> 00:40:15,612
The day before she went missing?
915
00:40:18,483 --> 00:40:20,116
And then you go through
those text messages.
916
00:40:20,186 --> 00:40:23,220
Literally the last message
she sent him was...
917
00:40:28,193 --> 00:40:31,193
Also, the text messages,
they're deleted.
918
00:40:31,229 --> 00:40:33,463
Devlin: ...Starting with the one
at 5:00 p.M.,
919
00:40:33,665 --> 00:40:35,798
These messages were actually all
deleted at this point in time.
920
00:40:36,001 --> 00:40:38,134
Minutes before she leaves
her trailer
921
00:40:38,204 --> 00:40:40,937
And takes off her boot
to hobble down the street
922
00:40:41,005 --> 00:40:42,605
To go make him happy,
923
00:40:42,608 --> 00:40:45,541
She climbs in that car
on this video
924
00:40:45,578 --> 00:40:47,978
And is never seen
or heard from again.
925
00:40:48,179 --> 00:40:49,346
Nice.
926
00:40:57,689 --> 00:41:03,026
Woman:
♪ all these tears I've cried ♪
927
00:41:03,228 --> 00:41:05,962
♪ drowning me ♪
928
00:41:06,164 --> 00:41:08,831
♪ drowning me ♪
929
00:41:08,901 --> 00:41:11,567
Four years doesn't seem
like very long
930
00:41:11,636 --> 00:41:13,904
In the world
of working cold cases.
931
00:41:14,105 --> 00:41:17,172
But for tiffany's babies, it
probably feels like a lifetime.
932
00:41:17,175 --> 00:41:18,909
And now that the case
has been presented
933
00:41:19,110 --> 00:41:20,511
To their attorney general,
934
00:41:20,712 --> 00:41:22,445
We can finally bring them
some answers
935
00:41:22,513 --> 00:41:24,047
On what happened to their mom.
936
00:41:24,215 --> 00:41:27,183
How you feeling about talking
to the girls, wallace?
937
00:41:27,385 --> 00:41:28,786
- I'm feeling good.
- Yeah.
938
00:41:28,987 --> 00:41:31,788
I like the feeling
about what all we've done
939
00:41:31,856 --> 00:41:33,457
And everybody we've talked to.
940
00:41:33,658 --> 00:41:37,326
It's unfortunate that there's
a mother and a grandmother
941
00:41:37,529 --> 00:41:39,595
Gone forever now.
942
00:41:39,664 --> 00:41:42,432
And they know that.
Just reinforce it, you know.
943
00:41:42,634 --> 00:41:44,100
It's just sad.
944
00:41:45,537 --> 00:41:51,341
♪ set me free ♪
945
00:41:51,543 --> 00:41:56,280
♪ set me free ♪
946
00:41:58,549 --> 00:42:00,483
- Hello, ladies.
- Hello.
947
00:42:00,685 --> 00:42:02,351
- How y'all doing today?
- Good. How are you?
948
00:42:02,420 --> 00:42:04,153
Good.
949
00:42:04,824 --> 00:42:09,092
Well, it's been a long week.
We've talked to a lot of people.
950
00:42:09,294 --> 00:42:11,160
I think the first thing
you ought to know
951
00:42:11,229 --> 00:42:13,963
Is that everywhere we went
everybody was telling us
952
00:42:14,033 --> 00:42:15,231
Every single thing
they could remember
953
00:42:15,433 --> 00:42:17,033
About what your mom told them,
954
00:42:17,235 --> 00:42:19,302
And everybody told us that she
would've never left y'all.
955
00:42:19,371 --> 00:42:20,970
You knew that.
956
00:42:21,172 --> 00:42:22,606
- Yep.
- But I think it's important
957
00:42:22,807 --> 00:42:24,373
For y'all to hear that everybody
else knew that, too.
958
00:42:24,575 --> 00:42:26,443
And today was a day
959
00:42:26,645 --> 00:42:30,179
That wallace met with your
prosecutors to go over it all.
960
00:42:30,181 --> 00:42:33,983
Our hope is to bring charges
against geramie campbell
961
00:42:34,053 --> 00:42:36,385
For the murder of your mother,
tiffany holbert.
962
00:42:36,587 --> 00:42:38,255
[sobs]
963
00:42:44,129 --> 00:42:47,597
I'm very thankful
that the dunlap police
964
00:42:47,666 --> 00:42:50,567
Was doing everything they can
965
00:42:50,569 --> 00:42:55,838
To find out what happened
and give her justice.
966
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,674
I'm happy.
967
00:42:57,875 --> 00:43:03,546
I just want whoever did
something to her to pay for it.
968
00:43:03,615 --> 00:43:07,017
The prosecutor wants to meet
with all of you girls in person.
969
00:43:07,218 --> 00:43:10,888
You need to all be sitting there
to represent your mama.
970
00:43:11,089 --> 00:43:13,889
You look 'em in the eye and you
say, "we want you to fight."
971
00:43:14,092 --> 00:43:16,225
You're the victims here, too.
972
00:43:16,294 --> 00:43:19,162
- We want justice.
- That's right.
973
00:43:19,363 --> 00:43:21,931
Give me a hug. Come here, girl.
974
00:43:22,001 --> 00:43:23,667
- I'm proud of you.
- Thank you.
975
00:43:23,868 --> 00:43:25,501
Take care of yourselves.
976
00:43:25,571 --> 00:43:28,037
[exhales]
977
00:43:28,107 --> 00:43:35,846
[vocalizing]
978
00:43:37,315 --> 00:43:43,152
♪ all these tears I've cried ♪