1 00:00:12,712 --> 00:00:15,381 When you get to the house and you found him, 2 00:00:16,250 --> 00:00:17,750 You knew he was dead, right? 3 00:00:24,258 --> 00:00:26,492 What did you think had happened? 4 00:00:30,397 --> 00:00:33,132 ♪ way down in the water ♪ 5 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,634 ♪ mm-mm-mm ♪ 6 00:00:35,703 --> 00:00:37,336 ♪ mm-mm-mm ♪ 7 00:00:37,338 --> 00:00:39,539 ♪ way down in the hole ♪ 8 00:00:40,808 --> 00:00:42,742 I'm happy to see you, terri. 9 00:00:42,810 --> 00:00:45,077 I like bringing you all the way down here to florida. 10 00:00:45,079 --> 00:00:46,746 It's a nice time to come to florida 11 00:00:46,814 --> 00:00:49,014 When it still cold up in wisconsin. 12 00:00:49,082 --> 00:00:51,850 Well, we worked a case also here in putnam county 13 00:00:51,852 --> 00:00:54,486 With the detectives jason and clayton. 14 00:00:54,555 --> 00:00:55,755 They're young. They're eager. 15 00:00:55,822 --> 00:00:57,222 So you're gonna like working with them. 16 00:00:57,291 --> 00:00:59,424 Siegler: We're back in putnam county, florida, 17 00:00:59,493 --> 00:01:02,228 Where we recently looked into the 2007 case 18 00:01:02,296 --> 00:01:04,095 Of tyvon whitford. 19 00:01:04,165 --> 00:01:07,833 This time the sheriff's office has asked for our expertise 20 00:01:07,901 --> 00:01:10,670 To help solve the seven-year-old unsolved homicide 21 00:01:10,672 --> 00:01:14,374 Of family man and veteran marine thomas joe wall. 22 00:01:14,441 --> 00:01:16,975 Joe was only 34. 23 00:01:17,044 --> 00:01:19,578 He was a baseball coach for his kids. 24 00:01:19,646 --> 00:01:21,713 He liked to fish. He liked to drink beer. 25 00:01:21,715 --> 00:01:23,682 Just a regular good ol' country boy. 26 00:01:23,751 --> 00:01:25,184 It seemed like things were going well, 27 00:01:25,252 --> 00:01:27,453 And then out of the blue, something like this happens. 28 00:01:27,521 --> 00:01:29,855 When you're sitting in your own living room on your couch. 29 00:01:29,923 --> 00:01:30,856 Right. 30 00:01:30,858 --> 00:01:32,991 Siegler: On January 18, 2015, 31 00:01:33,060 --> 00:01:36,728 Joe had spent that day fishing with his 12-year-old son, 32 00:01:36,730 --> 00:01:38,398 Playing with his little five-year-old daughter, 33 00:01:38,465 --> 00:01:40,133 And having dinner with his wife. 34 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,402 That night while joe was relaxing on the couch 35 00:01:43,404 --> 00:01:44,736 And watching a game, 36 00:01:44,805 --> 00:01:47,273 His wife left to go pick up the kids. 37 00:01:47,341 --> 00:01:50,876 When they returned, she discovered joe fatally shot. 38 00:01:50,878 --> 00:01:52,611 He was shot in the top of the head 39 00:01:52,679 --> 00:01:54,147 And the side of the face. 40 00:01:54,214 --> 00:01:55,547 - Close. - Close. 41 00:01:55,549 --> 00:01:56,682 Yeah, somebody had to be right there. 42 00:01:58,085 --> 00:01:58,684 There were no signs of a struggle at the scene. 43 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:00,686 And joe's autopsy revealed 44 00:02:02,189 --> 00:02:03,688 That the only wounds were the fatal shots to his head. 45 00:02:03,757 --> 00:02:04,957 So there's always been a question 46 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:06,792 About how the killer approached him with such ease. 47 00:02:08,195 --> 00:02:10,062 I think it's a really sad case, and I really hope 48 00:02:10,064 --> 00:02:13,533 That we can try to get this family some answers 49 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:14,699 To what actually happened. 50 00:02:14,768 --> 00:02:16,235 Plus, you're good luck. 51 00:02:16,237 --> 00:02:17,703 [chuckles] I hope so. 52 00:02:27,181 --> 00:02:28,948 Welcome to the humidity in florida, terri. 53 00:02:29,016 --> 00:02:29,881 Hook: I know. 54 00:02:29,950 --> 00:02:32,318 Siegler: Hello, guys. 55 00:02:32,386 --> 00:02:33,852 - Hey. - This is terri hook. 56 00:02:33,921 --> 00:02:35,120 - Hi. - Hi. I'm klayton usina. 57 00:02:35,122 --> 00:02:36,788 - Jason theed. - Captain piscitello. 58 00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:38,123 - Terri hook. - Nice to meet you. 59 00:02:38,191 --> 00:02:39,858 Captain's gonna run down the case with us. 60 00:02:39,860 --> 00:02:42,195 He was the first person on scene back then. 61 00:02:42,262 --> 00:02:44,530 I knew the victim, and I knew the victim's family. 62 00:02:44,598 --> 00:02:47,133 So we're happy that you're here to work through this with us 63 00:02:47,201 --> 00:02:48,800 And see if there's anything we can do. 64 00:02:48,802 --> 00:02:50,870 - You wanna get started? - Yeah. Absolutely. Let's go. 65 00:02:50,938 --> 00:02:53,139 We're exciting about having kelly and the team back. 66 00:02:53,207 --> 00:02:54,940 We're certainly eager to get this case solved. 67 00:02:54,942 --> 00:02:56,341 All these years later, 68 00:02:56,410 --> 00:02:58,343 The wall family is still hurting and grieving. 69 00:02:58,412 --> 00:03:02,215 I wanna get those answers and resolution for joe's family. 70 00:03:02,282 --> 00:03:04,951 Okay, well, let's start off with our victim, 71 00:03:05,018 --> 00:03:06,418 Thomas joe wall. 72 00:03:06,486 --> 00:03:07,954 But he goes by joe. 73 00:03:08,021 --> 00:03:10,822 Usina: Joe is former marine. 74 00:03:10,824 --> 00:03:14,826 He was a hell of an athlete in school. Father of two. 75 00:03:14,895 --> 00:03:17,763 Joe's son, tommy wall, from a previous marriage, 76 00:03:17,765 --> 00:03:19,231 Was 12 at the time, 77 00:03:19,299 --> 00:03:23,034 And then he had a daughter with his wife lauren 78 00:03:23,103 --> 00:03:24,904 That was about five years old. 79 00:03:24,972 --> 00:03:26,771 He's a little league baseball coach, 80 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,641 And so the kids all loved him. 81 00:03:28,709 --> 00:03:30,309 He knows a lot of the families in the community. 82 00:03:30,311 --> 00:03:32,077 It looks like he liked to fish, huh? 83 00:03:32,145 --> 00:03:33,045 Yeah. 84 00:03:33,113 --> 00:03:34,380 He had just taken 85 00:03:36,049 --> 00:03:37,249 Some of the little league boys he coaches fishing that morning. 86 00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:42,454 In 2006 when joe and lauren were both serving in the military, 87 00:03:42,522 --> 00:03:43,989 They got married. 88 00:03:44,057 --> 00:03:46,191 After they were both discharged, 89 00:03:46,259 --> 00:03:48,261 Joe went to work in the family plumbing business, 90 00:03:48,328 --> 00:03:50,663 And lauren focused on raising the two kids. 91 00:03:50,731 --> 00:03:53,799 Captain, how did this investigation start out? 92 00:03:53,801 --> 00:03:57,202 Well, January 18th of 2015, 93 00:03:57,204 --> 00:04:00,005 They kids are gone to lauren's parents' house that night. 94 00:04:00,073 --> 00:04:02,275 And lauren was having a romantic night with her husband. 95 00:04:02,342 --> 00:04:04,476 - She goes to the store. - A dollar general. 96 00:04:04,544 --> 00:04:05,611 A dollar general store. Correct. 97 00:04:05,679 --> 00:04:07,279 She goes and picks up her children. 98 00:04:07,281 --> 00:04:08,480 She comes back home. 99 00:04:10,083 --> 00:04:12,617 And when she opens the door, she sees joe and then calls 911. 100 00:04:12,619 --> 00:04:14,820 911. What is your emergency? 101 00:04:17,057 --> 00:04:17,956 [crying] 102 00:04:19,426 --> 00:04:20,125 You need an ambulance or an officer? 103 00:04:24,097 --> 00:04:26,498 I got there. Lauren was visibly upset. 104 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:28,968 We see joe laying on the couch. 105 00:04:29,036 --> 00:04:32,538 We realized that he had been shot in the back of the head. 106 00:04:32,606 --> 00:04:34,072 There was no signs of a burglary 107 00:04:34,141 --> 00:04:36,709 Other than the sliding glass doors were open, 108 00:04:36,777 --> 00:04:39,211 And they weren't supposed to be open. 109 00:04:39,213 --> 00:04:40,413 Siegler: Bullet fragments suggested 110 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,982 That 38-caliber class rounds were used, 111 00:04:43,984 --> 00:04:47,086 But the murder weapon itself was never recovered. 112 00:04:47,153 --> 00:04:51,256 And with no signs of any forced entry or robbery, 113 00:04:51,324 --> 00:04:54,125 Investigators started looking at the person closest to joe, 114 00:04:54,127 --> 00:04:55,327 His wife. 115 00:04:55,329 --> 00:04:58,731 First up here, we got lauren wall. 116 00:04:58,799 --> 00:04:59,932 They've been married for how long? 117 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,199 Approximately nine years. 118 00:05:01,268 --> 00:05:03,002 What do we know about the marriage? 119 00:05:03,070 --> 00:05:05,737 - It's not happy. - A troubled marriage. 120 00:05:05,806 --> 00:05:07,005 She's considering leaving. 121 00:05:07,074 --> 00:05:08,540 During her initial interview, 122 00:05:08,608 --> 00:05:10,610 Lauren was open about her strained marriage, 123 00:05:10,677 --> 00:05:12,744 And she did admit that she was having 124 00:05:12,813 --> 00:05:15,681 A long-distance relationship with nick carter. 125 00:05:15,749 --> 00:05:18,116 You still talk? 126 00:05:19,753 --> 00:05:21,686 Hook: Nick was living out of state at the time 127 00:05:21,755 --> 00:05:23,221 And was never considered a suspect. 128 00:05:23,290 --> 00:05:24,957 But lauren is still with him today. 129 00:05:25,025 --> 00:05:26,758 So if she did kill her husband, 130 00:05:26,827 --> 00:05:28,494 It makes you wonder if nick's the motive. 131 00:05:28,562 --> 00:05:31,630 Let's talk about all the things that seem unusual 132 00:05:31,632 --> 00:05:33,698 Before joe was found. 133 00:05:33,767 --> 00:05:36,100 There was the "romantic" dinner. 134 00:05:36,169 --> 00:05:38,036 And I'm gonna put "romantic" in quotes. 135 00:05:38,038 --> 00:05:39,170 - Sneed: Okay. - Well, the other weird thing 136 00:05:39,239 --> 00:05:40,839 Is she took the dog with her. 137 00:05:40,907 --> 00:05:42,040 Why take the dog? 138 00:05:42,042 --> 00:05:43,508 According to lauren, 139 00:05:43,577 --> 00:05:45,911 She took the kids and her dog to her parents' house 140 00:05:45,913 --> 00:05:48,513 So that she and joe could have a romantic dinner 141 00:05:48,582 --> 00:05:50,448 And work on their relationship. 142 00:05:50,518 --> 00:05:51,850 But if that's the case, 143 00:05:51,919 --> 00:05:53,085 Why did she go to the dollar general? 144 00:05:54,621 --> 00:05:57,255 She makes a call from the dollar general to the house. 145 00:05:57,324 --> 00:05:59,058 Theed: And it's with dollar general's phone. 146 00:05:59,126 --> 00:06:01,059 - Hook: Right. - Why use their phone? 147 00:06:01,128 --> 00:06:03,395 Right. When she has her own. 148 00:06:03,397 --> 00:06:05,830 Siegler: After lauren left the dollar general store, 149 00:06:05,899 --> 00:06:07,198 She went to her parents' house 150 00:06:07,267 --> 00:06:09,534 To pick up the kids and their landscaper 151 00:06:09,603 --> 00:06:11,937 Who she also gave a ride home, too, that night. 152 00:06:12,005 --> 00:06:14,806 What she initially failed to tell the investigators 153 00:06:14,875 --> 00:06:17,209 Was that she stopped at the kangaroo store 154 00:06:17,277 --> 00:06:18,610 Along the way. 155 00:06:18,612 --> 00:06:20,146 What happens with that receipt? 156 00:06:20,213 --> 00:06:23,082 - She actually throws it away. - At the scene. 157 00:06:23,150 --> 00:06:25,217 Theed: At the scene. Into the kitchen trash can. 158 00:06:25,285 --> 00:06:26,418 I like that. 159 00:06:27,821 --> 00:06:29,221 After the receipt was found, then lauren admitted 160 00:06:29,289 --> 00:06:31,323 That she had stopped at the kangaroo store 161 00:06:31,325 --> 00:06:35,093 Where she bought cigarettes and beer for their landscaper. 162 00:06:35,162 --> 00:06:38,831 But it's odd that she left out this seemingly innocuous detail. 163 00:06:38,899 --> 00:06:40,432 I don't know your relation to him. 164 00:06:40,434 --> 00:06:42,734 Y'all were clearly together tonight. 165 00:06:46,507 --> 00:06:49,174 It seemed like lauren was trying to minimize 166 00:06:49,176 --> 00:06:52,712 Her relationship with her landscaper, charles arrants, 167 00:06:52,779 --> 00:06:55,114 And the contact that they had that night. 168 00:06:55,182 --> 00:06:59,050 Okay, so y'all wanna put up charles "chaz" arrants next. 169 00:06:59,119 --> 00:07:02,654 Hook: He is the parents' landscaper. 170 00:07:02,722 --> 00:07:05,124 He says there's no relationship between him and lauren. 171 00:07:05,192 --> 00:07:06,791 What else do we need to put up here? 172 00:07:06,793 --> 00:07:08,126 Theed: Purchase of the bullets. 173 00:07:08,195 --> 00:07:09,060 Do we know what kind of bullets he bought? 174 00:07:09,129 --> 00:07:10,862 - .357. - Yeah. 175 00:07:10,931 --> 00:07:12,463 Siegler: Charles told law enforcement 176 00:07:12,533 --> 00:07:15,066 That he purchased .357 bullets for a friend to go hunting. 177 00:07:15,068 --> 00:07:16,935 Not only are these bullets consistent 178 00:07:17,003 --> 00:07:18,670 With the rounds that were used to kill joe, 179 00:07:18,672 --> 00:07:21,073 They were bought just a few weeks before the homicide. 180 00:07:21,141 --> 00:07:24,809 Okay, so we're gonna put the whole lauren's family up here, 181 00:07:24,811 --> 00:07:28,413 Decide if we all believe that they had any involvement 182 00:07:28,481 --> 00:07:30,815 Before the murder or after, if at all. 183 00:07:30,884 --> 00:07:33,152 Obviously, it's a close-knit family. 184 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:35,820 Right? That's not necessarily a bad thing. 185 00:07:35,889 --> 00:07:39,090 Mom and dad immediately hires a lawyer 186 00:07:39,092 --> 00:07:41,760 On lauren and the family's behalf. 187 00:07:41,828 --> 00:07:43,094 The very next day. 188 00:07:43,096 --> 00:07:46,097 And now they're together in bessemer, michigan 189 00:07:46,099 --> 00:07:47,765 Up in the middle of nowhere. 190 00:07:47,834 --> 00:07:49,267 The night of the murder, lauren's parents 191 00:07:49,336 --> 00:07:50,835 Were taking care of her kids. 192 00:07:50,837 --> 00:07:53,838 But in the months that follow, lauren and her parents 193 00:07:53,907 --> 00:07:55,974 Bought property in upper state michigan, 194 00:07:56,043 --> 00:07:58,043 Where they still live today. 195 00:07:58,045 --> 00:08:00,513 So, were they trying to get her out of town 196 00:08:00,580 --> 00:08:03,581 For a fresh start, or were they helping her escape? 197 00:08:03,651 --> 00:08:07,185 Okay, let's talk about, is there an unknown random intruder? 198 00:08:07,254 --> 00:08:08,720 - Right? - Correct. 199 00:08:08,788 --> 00:08:10,421 What about that sliding door? 200 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:14,726 Usina: The sliding door is unsecure and slightly ajar. 201 00:08:14,728 --> 00:08:17,128 Rumors of drug usage. 202 00:08:17,130 --> 00:08:19,130 Drug involved, question mark. 203 00:08:19,199 --> 00:08:21,200 Hook: When investigators first looked at joe's murder, 204 00:08:21,268 --> 00:08:25,136 Rumors started to surface that he was using or selling drugs. 205 00:08:25,205 --> 00:08:27,071 We'll have to see if there's any truth to these rumors 206 00:08:27,140 --> 00:08:28,607 And if it has anything to do with his death. 207 00:08:28,609 --> 00:08:31,877 That's a pretty good-looking board already. 208 00:08:36,416 --> 00:08:42,320 ♪♪♪ 209 00:08:45,525 --> 00:08:48,760 When everything happened, the 12-year-old son, tommy, 210 00:08:48,828 --> 00:08:52,430 Ended up being raised by joe's dad, his grandpa. 211 00:08:52,498 --> 00:08:55,700 It seems like he's kind of lost his whole family in all this. 212 00:08:55,769 --> 00:08:57,635 His whole life changed. 213 00:08:57,704 --> 00:08:59,938 Usina: Seven years is a long time to go without answers. 214 00:09:04,210 --> 00:09:05,443 - Tommy: Hi. - Siegler: Hello. 215 00:09:05,512 --> 00:09:06,978 - Hey, man. Tommy? - That's me. 216 00:09:07,047 --> 00:09:08,980 - Klayton usina. - I'm kelly. 217 00:09:09,049 --> 00:09:09,981 - Nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you. 218 00:09:09,983 --> 00:09:11,517 When joe was murdered, 219 00:09:11,585 --> 00:09:14,919 His son, tommy, lost not only his dad. 220 00:09:14,988 --> 00:09:16,722 He lost his entire family. 221 00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:19,657 His stepmother, lauren, took away his little sister 222 00:09:19,726 --> 00:09:21,460 And moved her to another state 223 00:09:21,527 --> 00:09:23,394 To start their new life with nick carter, 224 00:09:23,396 --> 00:09:25,330 Leaving tommy behind. 225 00:09:25,332 --> 00:09:27,332 Tommy has not heard from them since. 226 00:09:27,334 --> 00:09:29,601 Tell us about your daddy. 227 00:09:29,669 --> 00:09:31,270 Played sports together. 228 00:09:31,338 --> 00:09:33,672 I mean, I looked up to him, you know. 229 00:09:33,740 --> 00:09:35,073 Was he your coach? 230 00:09:35,141 --> 00:09:37,275 Yeah. He had me out there on the tee 231 00:09:37,344 --> 00:09:39,678 Hitting 500 pitches every day. 232 00:09:39,746 --> 00:09:42,748 He personally helped me, you know, with homework, 233 00:09:42,816 --> 00:09:44,615 If I needed help with homework or something like that. 234 00:09:44,685 --> 00:09:47,685 He played in high school for four years on the varsity. 235 00:09:47,687 --> 00:09:49,821 He played football. He was a heck of an athlete. 236 00:09:49,890 --> 00:09:51,690 What made him decide to go into the marine corps? 237 00:09:51,758 --> 00:09:53,958 9/11 was his birthday. 238 00:09:54,027 --> 00:09:56,561 So he decided he was gonna go into the marine corps. 239 00:09:56,629 --> 00:09:59,230 He had two tours over there in iraq. 240 00:09:59,232 --> 00:10:03,168 I spent, like--[sniffles] a lot of time with him. 241 00:10:03,236 --> 00:10:05,503 He taught me everything I knew about baseball, 242 00:10:05,572 --> 00:10:08,107 Everything I knew about almost anything. 243 00:10:08,174 --> 00:10:10,375 I just--I looked up to him. 244 00:10:10,443 --> 00:10:13,312 I don't think I could've asked for a better dad. 245 00:10:15,315 --> 00:10:17,649 What do you remember about that night? 246 00:10:17,651 --> 00:10:19,451 Me and dad played, I think, madden 247 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:21,252 On the playstation for a little bit. 248 00:10:21,254 --> 00:10:24,389 And then we left and we went to laurie's house. 249 00:10:24,457 --> 00:10:25,990 Who's we? 250 00:10:26,059 --> 00:10:27,993 Me, my sister, and my mom. 251 00:10:28,061 --> 00:10:29,595 It feels weird calling her mom. 252 00:10:29,663 --> 00:10:30,695 It's okay. 253 00:10:32,065 --> 00:10:33,732 Lauren leaves for a certain amount of time. 254 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,201 And then she comes back, and then we went home. 255 00:10:37,270 --> 00:10:39,337 I was going to get out of the vehicle, 256 00:10:39,406 --> 00:10:42,073 And lauren told me no. 257 00:10:42,075 --> 00:10:43,274 She said not to get out of the vehicle 258 00:10:43,343 --> 00:10:44,675 And just wait for my sister. 259 00:10:44,745 --> 00:10:46,210 She never told you to stay in the car before? 260 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:48,213 She's never told me to stay in the car. 261 00:10:48,215 --> 00:10:50,415 I waited. She walks up to the front door, 262 00:10:50,483 --> 00:10:53,284 Drops her groceries, runs inside, 263 00:10:53,353 --> 00:10:55,019 Comes back outside. 264 00:10:55,088 --> 00:10:57,355 And then from there, it's kind of a blur. 265 00:10:57,424 --> 00:11:00,826 I'm extremely upset at the time, not knowing what's going on, 266 00:11:00,894 --> 00:11:03,227 And the only thing I can think about is keeping my sister calm 267 00:11:03,296 --> 00:11:05,563 And keeping her okay. 268 00:11:05,632 --> 00:11:07,498 Sorry. 269 00:11:07,567 --> 00:11:10,368 I was so upset the entire time, 270 00:11:10,437 --> 00:11:12,904 And I couldn't understand why my sister was going somewhere else. 271 00:11:12,906 --> 00:11:15,106 Like... 272 00:11:15,175 --> 00:11:17,175 It was just--it's ridiculous. 273 00:11:17,243 --> 00:11:20,312 I haven't seen my sister since I was like 12. 274 00:11:20,380 --> 00:11:23,382 I mean, I spent like every day with her. 275 00:11:23,450 --> 00:11:28,052 She said that I was her favorite person. [sighs] 276 00:11:28,121 --> 00:11:31,723 Well, we're doing all this for you, you know, and for you. 277 00:11:31,725 --> 00:11:33,591 But mostly for you. Okay? 278 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,793 We're gonna try our very hardest, okay? 279 00:11:35,862 --> 00:11:37,328 I want you to know that. 280 00:11:37,330 --> 00:11:39,597 - We'd like to see closure. - How about justice? 281 00:11:39,666 --> 00:11:41,599 - Yeah. - I don't believe in closure. 282 00:11:41,668 --> 00:11:43,601 Closure means that you get your son back. 283 00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:46,171 Let's just hold accountable whoever did this. 284 00:11:57,850 --> 00:12:00,018 We'll go ahead and knock out the dna call, 285 00:12:00,954 --> 00:12:01,552 See if we got anything new. 286 00:12:01,621 --> 00:12:02,755 Siegler: Okay. 287 00:12:02,822 --> 00:12:05,090 - [line ringing] - in 2015, 288 00:12:05,158 --> 00:12:07,658 Joe wall was fatally shot in his living room. 289 00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:09,894 There were no signs of forced entry, 290 00:12:09,963 --> 00:12:13,898 But a rear sliding glass door was left ajar. 291 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:17,235 We sent swabs from its handle and the front door handle 292 00:12:17,237 --> 00:12:18,903 Off for dna testing. 293 00:12:18,972 --> 00:12:22,974 A match to joe's wife, lauren, wouldn't really be of any help. 294 00:12:23,042 --> 00:12:27,445 But if the dna from those swabs matched charles "chaz" arrants 295 00:12:27,514 --> 00:12:30,548 Or somebody else, that could identify our shooter. 296 00:12:56,476 --> 00:12:57,775 - We appreciate it. - Good talking to you guys. 297 00:12:57,844 --> 00:12:59,877 - Yep. Thanks, danny. - Hook: Thank you. 298 00:12:59,946 --> 00:13:01,479 Siegler: That's no surprise. 299 00:13:01,548 --> 00:13:03,948 If you got an unknown profile, how are you ever gonna match it? 300 00:13:04,017 --> 00:13:06,083 I know. But if you get an unknown 301 00:13:06,152 --> 00:13:07,952 And you can match it to charles... 302 00:13:08,021 --> 00:13:09,220 - Good try. - Yeah. 303 00:13:09,289 --> 00:13:11,623 - Good dedication. - [all laughing] 304 00:13:18,665 --> 00:13:22,233 It's disappointing that the dna results came up empty, 305 00:13:22,302 --> 00:13:24,703 But cold cases are rarely that easy. 306 00:13:24,771 --> 00:13:26,671 We're hoping this is mike whippel. 307 00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:28,439 So now we're gonna hit the streets 308 00:13:28,508 --> 00:13:30,975 And start talking to everybody that we can find in joe's world. 309 00:13:31,044 --> 00:13:33,912 Hey, mike. Detective theed with putnam county sheriff's office. 310 00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:37,648 We wanna learn all that we can about lauren and joe's marriage 311 00:13:37,717 --> 00:13:40,819 Or any problems joe might have had with anyone else, 312 00:13:40,887 --> 00:13:42,520 Including this rumor 313 00:13:42,522 --> 00:13:44,188 That joe might have been involved with drugs. 314 00:13:44,257 --> 00:13:45,791 Theed: We just wanted to pick your brain 315 00:13:45,859 --> 00:13:49,060 From what you could remember in the thomas wall homicide. 316 00:13:49,062 --> 00:13:51,329 What kind of guy was he? 317 00:13:51,397 --> 00:13:53,398 We hung out quite a bit. Went fishing a lot. 318 00:14:07,146 --> 00:14:08,213 Okay. 319 00:14:08,281 --> 00:14:09,815 Do you know if joe was into drugs 320 00:14:09,883 --> 00:14:12,483 Or selling drugs or anything like that? 321 00:14:12,553 --> 00:14:13,485 No. 322 00:14:18,157 --> 00:14:20,692 Was he a drug user or was he selling drugs? 323 00:14:23,129 --> 00:14:25,697 Did he have any enemies that you're aware of? 324 00:14:29,636 --> 00:14:31,436 Okay. 325 00:14:31,438 --> 00:14:32,771 Siegler: It sounds like all these rumors 326 00:14:32,773 --> 00:14:34,639 About joe being involved with drugs 327 00:14:34,641 --> 00:14:36,540 Were simply that-- just a bunch of rumors. 328 00:14:36,609 --> 00:14:39,510 Do you know what the relationship was like 329 00:14:39,579 --> 00:14:41,713 Between lauren and joe? 330 00:14:54,060 --> 00:14:55,660 How much did he confide in you 331 00:14:55,728 --> 00:14:57,795 About how the marriage was going? 332 00:14:57,797 --> 00:15:01,200 I knew he wasn't happy. I don't know why. 333 00:15:01,267 --> 00:15:03,202 But we'd drink, you know, after work, 334 00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:05,503 And he'd start getting sad. 335 00:15:14,481 --> 00:15:16,714 And why did he think that was? 336 00:15:21,087 --> 00:15:24,589 And this happened how much before he ends up murdered? 337 00:15:28,027 --> 00:15:30,628 We knew that lauren wasn't happy in her marriage 338 00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:32,897 And had begun talking with nick carter. 339 00:15:32,966 --> 00:15:34,966 But he lived out of state. 340 00:15:35,034 --> 00:15:37,902 So if joe suspected that lauren was having an affair 341 00:15:37,971 --> 00:15:38,870 With somebody in town, 342 00:15:40,140 --> 00:15:41,906 Could that person have been charles arrants? 343 00:15:41,974 --> 00:15:45,577 Did one of you have a significant other on the side? 344 00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:57,856 Hello. I'm terri. 345 00:15:57,924 --> 00:16:00,791 - Nice to meet you. I'm ray. - Joel. Nice to meet you. 346 00:16:00,860 --> 00:16:03,594 Joe's brother, ray, and his co-worker, joel, 347 00:16:03,596 --> 00:16:05,930 Were close to joe and lauren at the time of his murder. 348 00:16:05,932 --> 00:16:08,132 Hopefully, they'll have some insight into her behavior. 349 00:16:08,201 --> 00:16:10,134 That night I texted them. 350 00:16:10,203 --> 00:16:12,470 It was like 7:00-ish, 7:30-ish. 351 00:16:12,538 --> 00:16:15,273 We were both watching a patriots playoff game. 352 00:16:15,342 --> 00:16:17,475 We were talking about two texts. 353 00:16:17,477 --> 00:16:19,009 Hook: Ray was texting joe during the time 354 00:16:19,079 --> 00:16:22,013 He was allegedly having a romantic dinner with his wife. 355 00:16:22,082 --> 00:16:24,148 Maybe it wasn't as romantic as lauren made it out to be. 356 00:16:24,217 --> 00:16:28,953 What was the relationship like between her and joe 357 00:16:28,955 --> 00:16:31,089 Leading up to his death? 358 00:16:31,157 --> 00:16:35,093 My brother was always kind of to himself about that. 359 00:16:36,296 --> 00:16:39,096 But there's been a lot of instances in their marriage 360 00:16:39,165 --> 00:16:40,564 That I can remember. 361 00:16:40,633 --> 00:16:42,833 She would constantly go and go and go and be gone, 362 00:16:42,902 --> 00:16:45,636 And, like, he kind of questioned her where she went 363 00:16:45,705 --> 00:16:46,971 Or what she was doing. 364 00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,508 It was like nothing was ever good enough. 365 00:16:50,510 --> 00:16:52,843 She was pretty vindictive and just nasty. 366 00:16:52,912 --> 00:16:55,314 But she was one of the strangest people I've ever met. 367 00:16:55,381 --> 00:16:58,382 She thinks she's the smartest. Apparently, she's pretty clever. 368 00:16:58,452 --> 00:17:00,718 Never met anybody quite like her. 369 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,454 You see her at the funeral, and then seeing her that night, 370 00:17:03,523 --> 00:17:05,990 I saw no, like, tears, no crying, 371 00:17:06,059 --> 00:17:09,794 No remorse, no being upset, nothing like that. 372 00:17:09,862 --> 00:17:12,863 The insurance policy, which we found out later, 373 00:17:12,932 --> 00:17:16,600 It paid $600,000 for the term insurance policy. 374 00:17:16,669 --> 00:17:18,402 He was murdered literally like less than a month 375 00:17:18,471 --> 00:17:21,539 Before the policy came to term. 376 00:17:21,541 --> 00:17:23,608 Hook: We've been considering the possibility 377 00:17:23,676 --> 00:17:26,278 That lauren's relationship with nick carter was her motive. 378 00:17:26,345 --> 00:17:29,013 But hearing about her husband's life insurance policy, 379 00:17:29,082 --> 00:17:31,416 It sounds like there's over half a million other reasons 380 00:17:31,418 --> 00:17:32,850 To want him dead. 381 00:17:45,697 --> 00:17:47,432 We got lots of stuff today, eric. 382 00:17:48,668 --> 00:17:48,699 - Afternoon. How are y'all? - All: Good. 383 00:17:49,635 --> 00:17:50,835 We have two potential motives 384 00:17:50,904 --> 00:17:53,437 For lauren to have wanted her husband dead-- 385 00:17:53,506 --> 00:17:54,905 Love and money. 386 00:17:54,907 --> 00:17:56,674 But we still have questions 387 00:17:56,676 --> 00:17:58,709 About the relationships in her life, 388 00:17:58,778 --> 00:18:01,645 Especially with her family landscaper, 389 00:18:01,714 --> 00:18:03,647 Charles "chaz" arrants. 390 00:18:03,716 --> 00:18:05,283 - Ready to get started? - Yeah. 391 00:18:05,351 --> 00:18:07,986 She's always minimized their relationship, 392 00:18:08,054 --> 00:18:09,854 But maybe phone records can tell us 393 00:18:09,856 --> 00:18:12,056 If there's more to it than she's letting on. 394 00:18:12,124 --> 00:18:15,527 First, this is all calls between lauren and charles arrants. 395 00:18:16,863 --> 00:18:21,266 12/30/2014 through 1/18. You've got a lot of calls. 396 00:18:21,334 --> 00:18:22,601 Whoa. 397 00:18:22,668 --> 00:18:24,268 So, the three weeks leading up to the murder, 398 00:18:24,337 --> 00:18:25,469 She called chaz a lot. 399 00:18:25,538 --> 00:18:27,838 - Yeah. - That stands out to me--1/10. 400 00:18:27,907 --> 00:18:30,642 I mean, 23 minutes with your landscaper? 401 00:18:30,709 --> 00:18:32,944 They had that long one on the 14th. 402 00:18:33,012 --> 00:18:35,813 - 46 minutes. - That's a lot of talking. 403 00:18:35,882 --> 00:18:37,882 Hook: The frequency of the calls leads us to believe 404 00:18:37,950 --> 00:18:39,884 That they may have had an intimate relationship. 405 00:18:39,886 --> 00:18:41,686 But it's odd, considering she's having 406 00:18:41,754 --> 00:18:43,621 An emotional affair with nick carter. 407 00:18:43,623 --> 00:18:45,890 Moving on to lauren's messaging activity, 408 00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:47,324 1/18/2015. 409 00:18:47,393 --> 00:18:49,827 - This is the day of our murder? - The day of our murder. 410 00:18:49,896 --> 00:18:51,896 - Okay. - 6:38 p.M. 411 00:18:51,898 --> 00:18:53,999 Message from nick carter... 412 00:18:55,168 --> 00:18:56,334 She replies... 413 00:18:58,037 --> 00:18:59,503 Then nick carter... 414 00:19:02,041 --> 00:19:03,908 For her romantic dinner preparation with her husband. 415 00:19:03,976 --> 00:19:07,378 She's cooking her dinner to try to make it right. 416 00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:09,914 Seeing those text messages between them that night 417 00:19:09,916 --> 00:19:11,316 Tells us all we need to know 418 00:19:11,384 --> 00:19:13,918 About her alleged romantic dinner with her husband. 419 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,920 In any case, we know after dinner 420 00:19:15,922 --> 00:19:17,521 She left for the dollar general. 421 00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:19,924 The question is, was her husband still alive? 422 00:19:19,992 --> 00:19:23,661 Then sends a message to her husband 8:03 p.M... 423 00:19:28,401 --> 00:19:30,902 At this point in time, he's still alive here. 424 00:19:30,970 --> 00:19:32,236 He's communi--he's texting. 425 00:19:32,305 --> 00:19:34,605 He replies... 426 00:19:34,607 --> 00:19:36,874 She replies... 427 00:19:36,876 --> 00:19:39,476 He replies at 8:10 p.M... 428 00:19:39,545 --> 00:19:40,945 "I don't know." 429 00:19:40,947 --> 00:19:43,881 That was the last message from joe. 430 00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:45,549 So, we think he's dead around 8:10 431 00:19:45,618 --> 00:19:46,884 Based on their communication? 432 00:19:46,953 --> 00:19:48,019 Mm-hmm. 433 00:19:49,422 --> 00:19:50,621 There's no evidence that anybody other than joe 434 00:19:50,623 --> 00:19:52,423 Was responding to lauren's texts. 435 00:19:52,492 --> 00:19:54,625 That means that joe was alive 436 00:19:54,627 --> 00:19:56,527 When lauren left for dollar general, 437 00:19:56,596 --> 00:19:58,696 And it's unlikely that she was the shooter, 438 00:19:58,765 --> 00:20:00,097 But it doesn't mean 439 00:20:00,099 --> 00:20:02,233 That she wasn't still involved in this case. 440 00:20:02,301 --> 00:20:04,769 Moving on. 8:17 p.M. 441 00:20:04,771 --> 00:20:07,138 Lauren's message to joe... 442 00:20:09,775 --> 00:20:12,977 Nick carter butts in again... 443 00:20:12,979 --> 00:20:15,246 Lauren sends a message to nick carter... 444 00:20:16,049 --> 00:20:19,483 9:41 p.M., lauren sends a message to joe... 445 00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:27,992 Since earlier on, nothing has come from joe. 446 00:20:27,994 --> 00:20:29,528 - Right. - They're all from her. 447 00:20:29,595 --> 00:20:31,395 Here's what I found was interesting. 448 00:20:31,464 --> 00:20:35,599 From January 11, 2015 through January 17, 2015, 449 00:20:35,668 --> 00:20:37,601 There were zero messages to joe wall. 450 00:20:37,670 --> 00:20:39,136 No texting at all. 451 00:20:39,205 --> 00:20:41,805 - No texting from lauren to joe. - Ooh, I like that. 452 00:20:41,874 --> 00:20:43,807 Clearly, she's trying to over-text him. 453 00:20:43,877 --> 00:20:46,010 - Right. - She's covering herself. 454 00:20:46,012 --> 00:20:49,414 It's possible that lauren was texting joe that night 455 00:20:49,482 --> 00:20:51,683 To help craft her alibi. 456 00:20:51,751 --> 00:20:53,617 But what she might have overlooked 457 00:20:53,686 --> 00:20:56,020 Is that law enforcement could also uncover 458 00:20:56,022 --> 00:20:58,956 All of her flirtatious texting with nick carter. 459 00:20:59,025 --> 00:21:03,293 Strangely, she did not text or call chaz that night. 460 00:21:03,363 --> 00:21:06,697 So if he's involved, it's still unclear how. 461 00:21:06,766 --> 00:21:08,966 - Thank you, eric. Thank you. - Yeah. 462 00:21:09,035 --> 00:21:10,968 Maybe examining the crime scene 463 00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:12,537 Will help us figure out what we're missing. 464 00:21:17,543 --> 00:21:19,377 When we get there, let's pick apart 465 00:21:19,379 --> 00:21:23,181 Where we know the gunshot wound enters his head 466 00:21:23,249 --> 00:21:25,516 And then where were all the doors in the house, 467 00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:27,585 Right. 468 00:21:31,657 --> 00:21:32,890 No. 469 00:21:40,833 --> 00:21:43,000 - Usina: Good morning. - Good morning. 470 00:21:43,069 --> 00:21:44,802 So, y'all got us in the actual house. 471 00:21:44,871 --> 00:21:46,938 - Yes, ma'am. - Okay, let's go see. 472 00:21:47,006 --> 00:21:48,806 There were no signs of a struggle 473 00:21:48,875 --> 00:21:51,076 Or any defensive wounds on joe 474 00:21:51,143 --> 00:21:53,744 Suggesting that joe either didn't see his killer 475 00:21:53,813 --> 00:21:55,879 Or had no time at all to react. 476 00:21:55,949 --> 00:21:57,681 Here's our living room. 477 00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:59,283 So, how was he approached, 478 00:21:59,351 --> 00:22:02,286 And what does that tell us about his killer? 479 00:22:02,355 --> 00:22:06,090 The trajectory of his wounds should give us some answers. 480 00:22:06,092 --> 00:22:08,759 We know he's found on the couch. Get down there. 481 00:22:08,761 --> 00:22:10,295 Now, he's watching tv. 482 00:22:10,363 --> 00:22:12,163 So, now let's talk about 483 00:22:12,231 --> 00:22:15,165 Exactly where we think the entry wound is. 484 00:22:15,167 --> 00:22:18,102 I think the first shot goes, like, right here... 485 00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:19,636 [bang] 486 00:22:19,705 --> 00:22:21,239 ...And it goes diagonally down here, 487 00:22:21,307 --> 00:22:23,708 And he slumps over like that, and now he hits him again. 488 00:22:23,776 --> 00:22:25,643 And then the next one is right there. 489 00:22:25,712 --> 00:22:27,145 [bang] 490 00:22:27,213 --> 00:22:28,779 That's the one that came out of his mouth. 491 00:22:28,781 --> 00:22:30,381 - Yep. - Based on his injuries, 492 00:22:30,449 --> 00:22:32,849 It appears that joe was sitting upright when he was shot. 493 00:22:32,851 --> 00:22:34,118 Being a former marine, 494 00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:36,120 You'd think that joe would defend himself 495 00:22:36,122 --> 00:22:39,122 If he saw someone enter his home with a pistol or a rifle. 496 00:22:39,191 --> 00:22:41,458 His killer must have gotten the shots off quickly. 497 00:22:41,527 --> 00:22:43,060 So, which door did he come in? 498 00:22:43,129 --> 00:22:45,797 If you shoot from here, you can't even make the first shot. 499 00:22:45,865 --> 00:22:47,264 You're shooting back. 500 00:22:47,333 --> 00:22:49,533 - Now doing this, no. - It's not the angle. 501 00:22:49,602 --> 00:22:51,235 Totally. 502 00:22:51,303 --> 00:22:53,403 Hook: Considering the angle and trajectory of the wounds, 503 00:22:53,473 --> 00:22:56,673 It appears a shot from the rear sliding glass door doesn't work. 504 00:22:56,742 --> 00:22:58,142 What about the front door? 505 00:22:58,144 --> 00:22:59,610 You come through the front door. 506 00:22:59,678 --> 00:23:01,011 No way. 507 00:23:01,081 --> 00:23:03,280 You can't make the angle of the shot. 508 00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:05,216 Well, yeah, you can't shoot him from over... 509 00:23:05,284 --> 00:23:07,184 And he's not gonna get the time to walk away 510 00:23:07,253 --> 00:23:09,019 And do it from the right direction. 511 00:23:09,088 --> 00:23:10,554 Hook: A shot from the front door doesn't work either. 512 00:23:10,623 --> 00:23:13,725 This leaves us with an even more sinister scenario. 513 00:23:13,793 --> 00:23:16,093 Joe's killer was already inside the house. 514 00:23:16,161 --> 00:23:18,830 If somebody helped lauren-- chaz or whoever-- 515 00:23:18,898 --> 00:23:21,966 The only door's here and here, and here's joe. 516 00:23:22,034 --> 00:23:25,402 You can slip chaz in that door right here in the garage. 517 00:23:25,471 --> 00:23:27,437 If you remember from the crime-scene photos, 518 00:23:27,507 --> 00:23:29,708 This was just packed full of stuff. 519 00:23:29,775 --> 00:23:33,177 That's why I think he could hide in here 'cause it was mess. 520 00:23:33,245 --> 00:23:35,513 So, you have somebody hiding out in here. 521 00:23:35,515 --> 00:23:38,449 You come out of this room. You come around this corner. 522 00:23:38,517 --> 00:23:39,983 You make your shot. 523 00:23:40,052 --> 00:23:41,886 We can't say for sure how or when 524 00:23:41,954 --> 00:23:43,988 Lauren might have let charles into the garage, 525 00:23:44,056 --> 00:23:45,789 But it's possible he was lying in wait 526 00:23:45,858 --> 00:23:47,257 For the right time to strike. 527 00:23:47,259 --> 00:23:49,260 And with this scenario, you have to wonder 528 00:23:49,328 --> 00:23:51,062 If lauren got the dog out of the house that night 529 00:23:51,130 --> 00:23:52,130 Because it may have warned joe. 530 00:23:53,366 --> 00:23:54,799 Klayton, go in the garage and then come in. 531 00:24:00,339 --> 00:24:02,473 Bang. 532 00:24:02,541 --> 00:24:04,274 Reload. 533 00:24:04,276 --> 00:24:05,643 Bang. 534 00:24:06,679 --> 00:24:08,011 Can you see me? 535 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,347 No. Not in my peripheral at all. 536 00:24:10,349 --> 00:24:12,683 You're here. You're getting this thing open, 537 00:24:12,752 --> 00:24:14,218 And then you're running. 538 00:24:14,286 --> 00:24:16,286 Hook: Booking through the woods. 539 00:24:16,355 --> 00:24:18,022 Siegler: If lauren persuaded charles 540 00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:19,357 To kill her husband, 541 00:24:19,425 --> 00:24:21,425 This scenario makes the most sense. 542 00:24:21,493 --> 00:24:23,827 While she's out crafting an alibi, 543 00:24:23,829 --> 00:24:25,829 Chaz is sneaking up on joe 544 00:24:25,898 --> 00:24:27,764 Sitting there peacefully and vulnerable 545 00:24:27,833 --> 00:24:29,299 In his own living room, 546 00:24:29,368 --> 00:24:31,836 Where he shoots him, sneaks out the back door 547 00:24:31,904 --> 00:24:34,304 And possibly runs to lauren's parents' house 548 00:24:34,306 --> 00:24:35,974 Less than a mile away, 549 00:24:36,041 --> 00:24:37,975 Where we know lauren later picks him up 550 00:24:38,043 --> 00:24:39,509 And gives him a ride home. 551 00:24:39,579 --> 00:24:42,112 And you believe that a handgun and a rifle 552 00:24:42,181 --> 00:24:43,047 Can make that shot. 553 00:24:43,115 --> 00:24:44,448 Either scenario works. 554 00:24:44,517 --> 00:24:46,451 The difference is today you now believe 555 00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:48,919 The shot came from right there where you're standing 556 00:24:48,921 --> 00:24:50,921 And not over here at the sliding glass door. 557 00:24:50,923 --> 00:24:52,690 - Usina: Yeah. - Siegler: All right. 558 00:25:01,934 --> 00:25:04,969 Ooh, that's him right there. Right there he is. 559 00:25:09,875 --> 00:25:10,608 Hook: How are you? 560 00:25:11,744 --> 00:25:12,343 We're working on an old cold case, 561 00:25:13,746 --> 00:25:15,545 A homicide that took place about seven years ago, 562 00:25:15,615 --> 00:25:18,682 So we just wanted to talk to you and see what you can remember. 563 00:25:18,751 --> 00:25:20,551 He was my cellmate. 564 00:25:20,553 --> 00:25:22,118 Shortly after joe's murder, 565 00:25:22,188 --> 00:25:25,089 Charles "chaz" arrants was arrested for probation violation 566 00:25:25,157 --> 00:25:26,957 For an unrelated crime, 567 00:25:27,026 --> 00:25:28,426 And he shared a cell with two other inmates. 568 00:25:30,029 --> 00:25:31,830 Hi, man. We just kind of wanna talk to you and pick your brain. 569 00:25:31,897 --> 00:25:34,232 Hook: When people get locked up, they chat. 570 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:37,168 We wanna see what chaz may have told them about joe's murder. 571 00:25:37,236 --> 00:25:39,169 So, the three of y'all were in a cell together. 572 00:25:39,238 --> 00:25:40,504 - Mm-hmm. - Okay. 573 00:25:40,573 --> 00:25:42,507 What was it that you can remember? 574 00:25:42,575 --> 00:25:44,942 From what I remember, I'm pretty sure 575 00:25:44,944 --> 00:25:47,978 He was, like, dating some older lady 576 00:25:48,047 --> 00:25:50,515 Who was married. 577 00:25:50,583 --> 00:25:55,886 He was basically bragging about, like, killing the guy. 578 00:25:59,625 --> 00:26:02,059 Put the gun to the back of his head and blew his head off. 579 00:26:02,127 --> 00:26:04,928 And her getting money or something 580 00:26:04,997 --> 00:26:06,730 And, like-- you know what I mean? 581 00:26:06,732 --> 00:26:08,832 Something along them lines, from what I remember. 582 00:26:08,901 --> 00:26:11,401 I guess there was insurance or something on the husband. 583 00:26:11,470 --> 00:26:13,503 That's why they wanted the money--to haul ass. 584 00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:14,572 Okay. 585 00:26:15,941 --> 00:26:17,274 Witness: He bought the bullets in st. Augustine. 586 00:26:17,276 --> 00:26:19,009 - What kind of bullets? - He said 357. 587 00:26:19,078 --> 00:26:20,477 357. Okay. 588 00:26:20,479 --> 00:26:22,746 Chaz's former cellmates are not only saying 589 00:26:22,748 --> 00:26:24,616 That he confessed to shooting joe. 590 00:26:24,683 --> 00:26:26,684 They're telling us about the bullets he bought 591 00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:29,153 Which are consistent with the 38-caliber class rounds 592 00:26:29,221 --> 00:26:31,088 That the police believed were used. 593 00:26:31,157 --> 00:26:32,623 This was not public knowledge, 594 00:26:32,625 --> 00:26:34,491 And the only way that they could get this detail 595 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,226 Is if it came from chaz. 596 00:26:36,295 --> 00:26:37,761 Witness: I remember him describing 597 00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:39,763 Getting rid of a gun in a lake. 598 00:26:39,832 --> 00:26:44,034 Usina: And this was from his mouth to your ears. 599 00:26:44,103 --> 00:26:45,635 Oh, I didn't make none of this up. 600 00:26:45,705 --> 00:26:49,639 This was, like, freaking me out, sleeping next to this dude. 601 00:26:49,709 --> 00:26:51,775 Yeah, it really bothered me. 602 00:26:51,844 --> 00:26:54,579 The credibility of inmates is always questioned, 603 00:26:54,647 --> 00:26:56,581 But the fact that these two have had no contact 604 00:26:56,649 --> 00:26:58,515 With each other for years 605 00:26:58,584 --> 00:27:01,385 And tell the same story with no benefits to coming forward 606 00:27:01,453 --> 00:27:02,620 Makes me believe they're telling the truth. 607 00:27:04,123 --> 00:27:05,657 And if so, this is a piece of circumstantial evidence 608 00:27:05,724 --> 00:27:07,625 Pointing to chaz's involvement. 609 00:27:07,693 --> 00:27:09,093 It's time we talked to him. 610 00:27:12,331 --> 00:27:14,365 Hook: He's already been talked to twice. 611 00:27:14,433 --> 00:27:16,533 We should get to the brass tacks of it. 612 00:27:16,535 --> 00:27:18,969 With everything we've learned, it's looking more and more 613 00:27:18,971 --> 00:27:21,005 Like charles arrants is the person 614 00:27:21,073 --> 00:27:23,207 That pulled the trigger and killed joe wall. 615 00:27:23,209 --> 00:27:26,143 But if we can get any inconsistencies out of him 616 00:27:26,211 --> 00:27:28,345 Or bolster his connection with lauren, 617 00:27:28,415 --> 00:27:30,081 That could strengthen this case even more. 618 00:27:31,483 --> 00:27:33,750 - [dog barking] - usina: Sheriff's office. 619 00:27:33,819 --> 00:27:35,286 - How you doing? - Hey, man. 620 00:27:35,354 --> 00:27:38,755 I'm working on a homicide from back in 2015. 621 00:27:38,824 --> 00:27:41,960 Uh--uh, what's his name? Uh... 622 00:27:42,027 --> 00:27:43,593 - Joe. - Joe. 623 00:27:43,662 --> 00:27:44,828 - Wall. - Oh. 624 00:27:44,897 --> 00:27:46,096 It was on the tip of my tongue. 625 00:27:46,165 --> 00:27:47,966 We can step out on the back over here. 626 00:27:48,033 --> 00:27:49,434 - Okay. - All right. 627 00:27:49,501 --> 00:27:53,637 Uh, let's see. What I remember that night, 628 00:27:53,639 --> 00:27:55,673 We were all sitting over at our parents' house. 629 00:27:55,675 --> 00:27:57,308 Lauren had left. 630 00:27:57,376 --> 00:27:59,943 I think she went to making dinner or something like that 631 00:28:00,012 --> 00:28:01,144 And then came back. 632 00:28:01,213 --> 00:28:02,979 And then she took me home. 633 00:28:03,048 --> 00:28:05,048 Man, that's really all I remember 634 00:28:05,117 --> 00:28:06,516 From the night, honestly. 635 00:28:06,585 --> 00:28:10,121 Okay. What about your and her relationship? 636 00:28:10,189 --> 00:28:12,256 Nothing ever happened 637 00:28:12,324 --> 00:28:15,625 Until probably like a year after and everything. 638 00:28:15,694 --> 00:28:18,862 Pretty much from the day the homicide happened 639 00:28:18,931 --> 00:28:20,932 To several months afterwards, 640 00:28:20,999 --> 00:28:23,067 You were with the family nonstop, correct? 641 00:28:23,135 --> 00:28:25,002 Not nonstop. I'm sorry. I'm gonna move this. 642 00:28:25,004 --> 00:28:27,371 - I got the sun in my eyes. - No, no, no. You're fine. 643 00:28:29,541 --> 00:28:31,841 Charles seems agitated and can't sit still. 644 00:28:31,911 --> 00:28:34,679 He's swatting bugs and wiping sweat from his brow. 645 00:28:34,747 --> 00:28:38,416 It really isn't that hot, and it really isn't that buggy. 646 00:28:38,484 --> 00:28:41,751 After everything went downhill and all that sh-- happened, 647 00:28:41,821 --> 00:28:44,688 I ended up staying there, and that was my rent. 648 00:28:44,757 --> 00:28:46,223 It was keeping up the place, you know, 649 00:28:46,291 --> 00:28:48,225 Paying the electric bill and keep the grass mowed. 650 00:28:48,227 --> 00:28:50,495 Anything ever suspicious of lauren? 651 00:28:52,097 --> 00:28:55,032 I mean, she's an unusual person, 652 00:28:55,034 --> 00:28:57,701 But nothing really rung out to me 653 00:28:57,770 --> 00:29:00,037 That said that she had anything to do with it. 654 00:29:00,105 --> 00:29:02,840 Whenever she was going through the stuff 655 00:29:02,908 --> 00:29:04,174 With the life insurance policy, 656 00:29:04,243 --> 00:29:05,976 I guess she settled for a lot less 657 00:29:05,978 --> 00:29:07,577 Than what the insurance payout was. 658 00:29:07,646 --> 00:29:09,246 Hook: And did she give you any of it? 659 00:29:09,315 --> 00:29:11,181 No. Hell, no. 660 00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:14,251 Usina: What about bullets in st. Augustine? 661 00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:17,587 So, my buddy's dad had a 357 lever-action. 662 00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:19,390 And whenever I'd go hunting, that's what I always got to use. 663 00:29:19,458 --> 00:29:20,924 So that's what you bought the bullets for? 664 00:29:20,993 --> 00:29:22,392 Yes, sir. 665 00:29:22,461 --> 00:29:24,729 Usina: I don't see your motivation to do this 666 00:29:24,797 --> 00:29:26,730 Unless it's on her behalf. 667 00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:30,934 I didn't do this. I am not involved in this sh--. 668 00:29:31,003 --> 00:29:33,203 Hook: There's a lot of stuff that points right back to you. 669 00:29:33,272 --> 00:29:34,871 Buying the bullets. 670 00:29:34,940 --> 00:29:36,606 And then people in the jail 671 00:29:36,675 --> 00:29:39,743 That are saying that you're making comments to them. 672 00:29:39,745 --> 00:29:42,412 Yep. That don't look too good, does it? 673 00:29:42,414 --> 00:29:44,816 Hook: It doesn't. And you wanna say it. 674 00:29:44,883 --> 00:29:47,217 I know you wanna say it. I can see it in you. 675 00:29:47,286 --> 00:29:49,152 I can see that you wanna tell us. 676 00:29:49,221 --> 00:29:50,287 - What do I-- - the truth. 677 00:29:50,355 --> 00:29:51,888 You wanna tell us the truth, chaz. 678 00:29:51,957 --> 00:29:54,024 I wanna tell y'all something that's gonna save my ass. 679 00:29:54,026 --> 00:29:55,426 I'm sitting here searching. 680 00:29:55,494 --> 00:29:57,427 I'm sitting here digging through my [bleep] brain 681 00:29:57,496 --> 00:29:59,429 Trying to come with something, and I can't. 682 00:29:59,498 --> 00:30:01,098 - You know the truth. - Do you think I knew 683 00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:02,899 I was getting myself involved with whenever I got her-- 684 00:30:02,968 --> 00:30:04,701 Do you think that I knew I was gonna be freaking facing 685 00:30:04,770 --> 00:30:06,503 A murder investigation and all this sh--? 686 00:30:06,572 --> 00:30:08,438 Her old man was gonna get killed and all this? 687 00:30:08,507 --> 00:30:10,774 - Usina: No. - Like--[scoffs] 688 00:30:10,843 --> 00:30:13,777 I was just dirt ----ing broke and wanted to fish 689 00:30:13,845 --> 00:30:16,980 And talk to a cute girl and drink beer, and that's it, man. 690 00:30:17,049 --> 00:30:19,649 Usina: What did they tell you to do with the gun? 691 00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:22,520 Don't know what the [bleep] you're talking about, dude. 692 00:30:22,588 --> 00:30:24,788 I didn't get rid of no gun. I didn't kill anybody. 693 00:30:24,857 --> 00:30:26,656 I did not have any involvement with killing him. 694 00:30:26,725 --> 00:30:28,859 You're not believing what I'm saying here, 695 00:30:28,861 --> 00:30:30,060 So I really don't feel like this conversation 696 00:30:30,129 --> 00:30:32,530 Is carrying any more progress. 697 00:30:32,598 --> 00:30:34,798 Charles is answering all of our questions, 698 00:30:34,867 --> 00:30:37,534 But there's just too many odd circumstances surrounding him 699 00:30:37,536 --> 00:30:39,470 That he can't explain. 700 00:30:39,538 --> 00:30:41,204 I guess I'll be seeing you shortly. 701 00:30:41,273 --> 00:30:43,474 Sorry I couldn't ----ing help. 702 00:30:43,542 --> 00:30:45,075 All right. Take care of yourself, charles. 703 00:30:45,077 --> 00:30:46,343 And from my experience, 704 00:30:46,411 --> 00:30:48,079 The signals that charles is giving us 705 00:30:48,146 --> 00:30:49,746 Are speaking louder than his words. 706 00:30:49,748 --> 00:30:51,215 Hook: The mosquitos aren't bothering us, 707 00:30:51,283 --> 00:30:52,883 But they're bothering him. 708 00:30:52,885 --> 00:30:54,551 Usina: Yeah. They ate him up because he's pouring sweat. 709 00:30:54,620 --> 00:30:57,220 His arteries are sticking half an inch out of his neck. 710 00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:59,289 - I know. - Obvious indicators 711 00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:01,158 That people give off 712 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,627 When they're nervous about something. 713 00:31:12,603 --> 00:31:14,338 Siegler: Why would you come up here 714 00:31:15,707 --> 00:31:17,073 To bessemer, michigan all the way from florida? 715 00:31:17,142 --> 00:31:18,843 - A whole family. - Yeah. 716 00:31:18,911 --> 00:31:20,578 They all come back to the same address. 717 00:31:20,646 --> 00:31:22,579 Yeah, I think that that's odd. 718 00:31:22,648 --> 00:31:24,680 Siegler: In the months that followed joe's murder, 719 00:31:24,682 --> 00:31:27,717 Lauren and her family moved to a small town in upper michigan. 720 00:31:27,786 --> 00:31:30,387 She's been bunkered down there with them 721 00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:32,523 And her boyfriend, nick carter, ever since. 722 00:31:32,591 --> 00:31:34,325 This is it. This is their little... 723 00:31:34,393 --> 00:31:37,594 - Those little tan buildings. - Exactly. 724 00:31:37,663 --> 00:31:41,698 Oh, turn your camera on. Got this stuff. 725 00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:44,267 Siegler: The day after the murder, lauren's father, mike, 726 00:31:44,269 --> 00:31:46,703 Hired a lawyer for the whole family. 727 00:31:46,772 --> 00:31:48,838 Law enforcement has always believed 728 00:31:48,907 --> 00:31:51,775 That mike knows more than he's letting on. 729 00:31:51,844 --> 00:31:55,879 Maybe if we catch him off guard, he'll reveal some clues 730 00:31:55,947 --> 00:31:56,947 That he was involved. 731 00:31:57,016 --> 00:31:58,482 How you doing, mike? 732 00:31:58,550 --> 00:32:00,551 Detective theed with the putnam county sheriff's office. 733 00:32:00,619 --> 00:32:01,885 Do you mind talking to us, sir? 734 00:32:01,954 --> 00:32:03,954 - I would love to talk to you. - Awesome. 735 00:32:04,023 --> 00:32:05,422 Siegler: Take us to Sunday. 736 00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:07,291 Take us to the day of the murder. 737 00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:08,825 Theed: You're all having dinner together? 738 00:32:08,827 --> 00:32:12,061 I don't recall. I'm sure we ate something. 739 00:32:12,131 --> 00:32:14,564 'cause we're a family. I mean, we're tight-knit. 740 00:32:14,566 --> 00:32:16,433 Obviously, we're tight-knit. 741 00:32:16,435 --> 00:32:18,435 - Is chaz part of the family? - No. 742 00:32:18,503 --> 00:32:20,270 Siegler: How much was chaz around? 743 00:32:20,272 --> 00:32:22,372 Theed: Did he work for you? Did he do stuff for you? 744 00:32:22,441 --> 00:32:25,375 He did yardwork, sh-- I couldn't do. 745 00:32:25,444 --> 00:32:27,712 Did you pay him? Did you pay him for it? 746 00:32:27,779 --> 00:32:30,180 I kicked him a few bucks, lunch money. 747 00:32:30,182 --> 00:32:32,182 Yeah, I got him some cold drinks. 748 00:32:32,184 --> 00:32:35,118 Did he ever spend the night or just kind of hang out? 749 00:32:35,187 --> 00:32:37,053 During the day thing. 750 00:32:37,122 --> 00:32:38,989 It'd be like once a week he'd come cut the grass 751 00:32:38,991 --> 00:32:40,857 Or do something-- do something odd for you or no? 752 00:32:40,859 --> 00:32:42,659 Just odds and ends. He'd stop by. 753 00:32:42,728 --> 00:32:44,594 Siegler: We know from charles 754 00:32:44,596 --> 00:32:46,863 That he lived with the gorskis after the murder. 755 00:32:46,865 --> 00:32:49,734 I ended up staying there, and that was my rent. 756 00:32:49,801 --> 00:32:51,601 It was keeping up the place, you know, 757 00:32:51,670 --> 00:32:53,738 Paying the electric bill and keep the grass mowed. 758 00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:56,005 So, we know from mike that he's now trying 759 00:32:56,075 --> 00:32:58,676 To minimize their relationship with chaz. 760 00:32:58,744 --> 00:33:00,477 Siegler: You understand why they were looking so hard 761 00:33:00,545 --> 00:33:01,745 At your daughter, right, mike? 762 00:33:01,814 --> 00:33:02,780 Yeah. 763 00:33:04,015 --> 00:33:04,215 Theed: She was the first one to find him. 764 00:33:05,384 --> 00:33:05,816 And they were having marital issues. 765 00:33:07,285 --> 00:33:08,218 - Gorski: Yeah. Yeah. - Siegler: And you knew that. 766 00:33:08,286 --> 00:33:09,819 Well, no. I didn't know it. 767 00:33:09,821 --> 00:33:12,288 Siegler: Wait. You didn't know that joe and your daughter 768 00:33:12,357 --> 00:33:13,758 Were having marital issues? 769 00:33:13,825 --> 00:33:16,693 No. Whatever their deal is between the two of them... 770 00:33:16,762 --> 00:33:18,628 - Theed mm-hmm. - ...I don't know. 771 00:33:18,697 --> 00:33:20,230 Siegler: That's why lauren's still stuck 772 00:33:20,232 --> 00:33:21,631 In the middle of all of this, 773 00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:23,699 So we can just talk to lauren about all that. 774 00:33:23,701 --> 00:33:26,503 Maybe mike is being evasive to try and protect his daughter, 775 00:33:26,571 --> 00:33:29,740 Or maybe mike only knows so much. 776 00:33:29,808 --> 00:33:31,776 I think it's time we talk to lauren. 777 00:33:31,843 --> 00:33:33,877 Lauren hasn't spoken to law enforcement 778 00:33:33,946 --> 00:33:36,145 Since the night her husband was killed. 779 00:33:36,215 --> 00:33:38,515 You didn't start showing emotion 780 00:33:38,583 --> 00:33:41,685 Until we told you that he was shot. 781 00:33:43,855 --> 00:33:46,523 We know that she had two potential motives 782 00:33:46,591 --> 00:33:48,258 For wanting to kill her husband-- 783 00:33:48,327 --> 00:33:51,495 Love of nick carter and the money from the life insurance. 784 00:33:51,563 --> 00:33:53,997 Now it's time to get some answers. 785 00:33:54,066 --> 00:33:56,100 Theed: So, we're just kind of revisiting everything. 786 00:33:56,167 --> 00:33:59,904 I know your encounter was traumatic, so if you can-- 787 00:33:59,971 --> 00:34:01,404 I'm already having a panic attack. 788 00:34:01,473 --> 00:34:03,007 Just take your time. Just take your time. 789 00:34:03,075 --> 00:34:05,141 We've got all notes and watch the interviews 790 00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:06,743 And stuff like that. 791 00:34:06,812 --> 00:34:08,678 - Please, no. - No, no, no. Not pictures. 792 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,747 - Siegler: No pictures. - Just words. Just words. 793 00:34:10,816 --> 00:34:12,182 - Oh, wow. - Just words. 794 00:34:13,852 --> 00:34:16,286 Oh, my god. I was not prepared for this today. Guys, I'm sorry. 795 00:34:16,354 --> 00:34:19,023 Did you find anything else about him? 796 00:34:19,091 --> 00:34:20,557 Not as of yet. 797 00:34:20,625 --> 00:34:22,559 That's why we're trying to get it all together. 798 00:34:22,561 --> 00:34:23,993 In the past seven years, 799 00:34:24,062 --> 00:34:26,096 Lauren has never picked up the phone 800 00:34:26,098 --> 00:34:27,497 To ask a single question 801 00:34:27,566 --> 00:34:29,699 About the progress of the investigation 802 00:34:29,768 --> 00:34:32,769 Or voice any concern about losing her husband. 803 00:34:32,838 --> 00:34:35,438 And now she's sounding way to concerned. 804 00:34:35,507 --> 00:34:37,708 We haven't even been able to find out yet anything 805 00:34:37,776 --> 00:34:39,375 About the life insurance money. 806 00:34:39,444 --> 00:34:40,977 What happened with that? 807 00:34:41,046 --> 00:34:44,380 Oh. Um...Um... 808 00:34:44,449 --> 00:34:46,384 My chest is, like, pounding. 809 00:34:46,451 --> 00:34:49,854 We got it cut to my parents. 810 00:34:49,921 --> 00:34:51,655 'cause they were the second beneficiary. 811 00:34:51,723 --> 00:34:52,656 Yeah. 812 00:34:53,925 --> 00:34:55,458 Theed: That's what helped buy the house? 813 00:34:55,527 --> 00:34:56,794 We bought a house. 814 00:34:56,862 --> 00:34:58,995 So because you weren't cleared as a suspect, 815 00:34:58,997 --> 00:35:00,864 They gave it to the contingent beneficiaries-- 816 00:35:00,932 --> 00:35:02,398 Your mom and dad. 817 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,067 - Right. - How much was it, lauren? 818 00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:06,603 Oh, dear. I don't remember. I'm so sorry. I don't remember. 819 00:35:06,605 --> 00:35:08,137 Theed: Was it 600? 820 00:35:08,207 --> 00:35:10,540 No. A bunch of the lawyers got a whole bunch. 821 00:35:10,609 --> 00:35:13,143 Lauren downplayed the amount of money 822 00:35:13,145 --> 00:35:15,278 She got from the life insurance to chaz. 823 00:35:15,347 --> 00:35:17,080 Why would she do that? 824 00:35:17,149 --> 00:35:19,749 So, lauren, help us understand then, 825 00:35:19,819 --> 00:35:22,420 When you went to your mom's to pick up the kids, 826 00:35:22,487 --> 00:35:24,354 Who all was at your mom's house? 827 00:35:24,422 --> 00:35:27,758 Thomas and dad. 828 00:35:27,826 --> 00:35:31,262 Oh. Um--[snapping fingers] charles arrants was there. 829 00:35:31,329 --> 00:35:33,898 He had done a bunch of yardwork for my parents that day. 830 00:35:33,965 --> 00:35:37,233 I gave him a ride home, and I picked up beer 831 00:35:37,302 --> 00:35:38,835 Because I was paying him in beer. 832 00:35:38,904 --> 00:35:40,837 He was just a yardwork guy, right? 833 00:35:40,906 --> 00:35:43,507 - Yeah. - So how come after the murder, 834 00:35:43,575 --> 00:35:45,509 He's staying with y'all at your house? 835 00:35:45,577 --> 00:35:47,711 He wasn't. 836 00:35:47,779 --> 00:35:49,912 - No, he got into your house. - How did that happen? 837 00:35:49,981 --> 00:35:51,715 - He stays at your house. - A whole month. 838 00:35:51,717 --> 00:35:54,584 I can't remember. Hold on. How did that happen? 839 00:35:54,653 --> 00:35:56,486 Theed: Did you have a relationship with chaz? 840 00:35:58,023 --> 00:36:01,324 Not before everything happened. 841 00:36:01,326 --> 00:36:03,794 It was a long while after. 842 00:36:03,862 --> 00:36:06,863 Y'all moved away within months. 843 00:36:06,932 --> 00:36:08,065 Siegler: Where does nick carter 844 00:36:08,133 --> 00:36:09,599 Think your relationship with chaz was? 845 00:36:09,668 --> 00:36:13,069 I don't know. I don't--what? 846 00:36:13,071 --> 00:36:15,972 What was your relationship with nick carter? 847 00:36:16,041 --> 00:36:19,143 On the day that your husband was shot in your house, 848 00:36:19,211 --> 00:36:21,244 What was your relationship with nick carter? 849 00:36:21,246 --> 00:36:24,748 I feel like I'm ready to go call my lawyer. 850 00:36:24,816 --> 00:36:26,949 I mean, if that's what you think you need to do. 851 00:36:27,018 --> 00:36:29,085 You understand that we have 852 00:36:29,087 --> 00:36:31,555 All your text messages with nick carter 853 00:36:31,623 --> 00:36:33,223 During the time, right around the time 854 00:36:33,225 --> 00:36:34,257 Your husband was killed? 855 00:36:34,259 --> 00:36:35,759 Yes. I'm aware. 856 00:36:35,761 --> 00:36:37,428 It looks disgusting. 857 00:36:37,495 --> 00:36:40,697 - That you were telling him-- - it looks disgusting. 858 00:36:40,765 --> 00:36:43,067 Joe and I were working on a divorce. 859 00:36:43,134 --> 00:36:45,501 And working on a divorce. 860 00:36:45,570 --> 00:36:50,073 And I'm aware how terrible it looks. 861 00:36:50,142 --> 00:36:52,141 And, lauren, the night that you were cooking this dinner 862 00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:54,211 For a fun night with your husband, 863 00:36:54,279 --> 00:36:56,913 You're texting nick carter that very same night. 864 00:36:56,982 --> 00:36:59,450 - At the same time. - Two men at the same time. 865 00:36:59,517 --> 00:37:00,917 - Yes, I am. - And chaz is the one 866 00:37:00,986 --> 00:37:02,919 You took home that day and bought him beer. 867 00:37:02,988 --> 00:37:04,988 - Yes. - And chaz has told people 868 00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:07,191 That he killed his girlfriend's husband 869 00:37:07,259 --> 00:37:08,359 For her for money. 870 00:37:08,426 --> 00:37:09,793 - What? - Yep. 871 00:37:09,795 --> 00:37:11,528 You know what he's saying. 872 00:37:11,530 --> 00:37:14,197 Oh, what the [bleep]. 873 00:37:14,265 --> 00:37:17,133 You know what he's saying. We know what he's already said. 874 00:37:17,135 --> 00:37:19,068 That's why we're here. We're here for the truth. 875 00:37:19,137 --> 00:37:20,503 I understand that. 876 00:37:22,073 --> 00:37:24,708 - I need to go call my lawyer. - Okay. 877 00:37:26,611 --> 00:37:28,544 The way she acted in the car today 878 00:37:28,613 --> 00:37:31,014 With her overdramatic histrionics, 879 00:37:31,082 --> 00:37:33,350 I don't think anybody would buy anything she had to say today. 880 00:37:33,418 --> 00:37:36,486 That fake drama bull[bleep], nobody's gonna buy that. 881 00:37:36,488 --> 00:37:38,689 - Nobody's gonna buy that. - No. 882 00:37:47,164 --> 00:37:49,333 - Well, good morning, guys. - Good morning. 883 00:37:50,068 --> 00:37:50,901 One more day, boys. 884 00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:52,736 Siegler: We've had a productive week, 885 00:37:53,972 --> 00:37:54,671 And we're feeling good about our case. 886 00:37:55,974 --> 00:37:57,107 Now we need to review everything we've learned 887 00:37:58,643 --> 00:38:00,309 And determine the level of involvement of our suspects 888 00:38:00,379 --> 00:38:01,778 In the murder of joe wall. 889 00:38:01,847 --> 00:38:04,047 What do we think about everything? 890 00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:06,583 There's no way it can be an unknown random intruder. 891 00:38:06,652 --> 00:38:08,017 Theed: Yeah. I agree. 892 00:38:08,086 --> 00:38:10,586 We haven't found anything about him using drugs. 893 00:38:10,656 --> 00:38:12,055 Was he selling drugs or... 894 00:38:18,663 --> 00:38:20,530 Home invasion. Your point of entrance-- 895 00:38:20,598 --> 00:38:23,767 You're not gonna make the shot to the back of the head. 896 00:38:23,769 --> 00:38:26,603 If you shoot from here, you can't even make the first shot. 897 00:38:26,672 --> 00:38:27,938 It's not the angle. 898 00:38:28,006 --> 00:38:29,939 Okay. With all that in our heads, 899 00:38:30,008 --> 00:38:31,875 Can everybody agree that "unknown random intruder" 900 00:38:31,943 --> 00:38:33,609 Is x'd off the board? 901 00:38:33,678 --> 00:38:35,412 - Yes. - Correct. 902 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,414 Okay, so now we got the gorski family up here. 903 00:38:38,483 --> 00:38:40,817 Do we think that they had prior knowledge 904 00:38:40,819 --> 00:38:42,085 And were involved in the planning 905 00:38:42,153 --> 00:38:43,820 Or accessory after the fact? 906 00:38:43,889 --> 00:38:46,089 - No. - To me, it looks like, 907 00:38:46,157 --> 00:38:47,291 "that's our daughter. We wanna protect her." 908 00:38:48,693 --> 00:38:50,827 And there's nothing that would suggest involvement 909 00:38:50,895 --> 00:38:52,562 Or accessory after the fact. 910 00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:54,297 - I'd cross 'em off. - Jason. 911 00:38:54,299 --> 00:38:55,698 - Yeah. I'd cross 'em off. - Hook: Yep. 912 00:38:55,767 --> 00:38:57,266 Okay. 913 00:38:57,335 --> 00:39:00,837 So, chaz. What do y'all think about the other inmates 914 00:39:00,905 --> 00:39:02,972 Now that you met 'em in person? 915 00:39:03,041 --> 00:39:04,174 I think their stories are truthful. 916 00:39:05,577 --> 00:39:06,443 First of all, they didn't have to tell the story, 917 00:39:07,579 --> 00:39:08,712 Because they were already out of jail. 918 00:39:08,780 --> 00:39:12,982 Basically bragging about killing the guy. 919 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,253 Lauren from the very beginning 920 00:39:17,255 --> 00:39:18,988 Didn't even acknowledge his existence. 921 00:39:18,990 --> 00:39:21,158 And then she minimized it. 922 00:39:21,226 --> 00:39:24,761 And even seven years later, they're still lying about chaz. 923 00:39:24,829 --> 00:39:26,663 ...Odds and ends. He'd stopped by... 924 00:39:26,731 --> 00:39:28,998 He was just a yardwork guy, right? 925 00:39:29,067 --> 00:39:32,568 What's your thinking on chaz's involvement in this case? 926 00:39:32,637 --> 00:39:35,538 I think there's a lot of evidence he's your shooter. 927 00:39:35,607 --> 00:39:37,273 What about you, jason? 928 00:39:37,275 --> 00:39:39,475 All the information in the facts that we've found 929 00:39:39,544 --> 00:39:40,944 Kind of point in that direction. 930 00:39:41,012 --> 00:39:42,579 - Terri? - So do I. 931 00:39:42,647 --> 00:39:44,447 You wanna tell us the truth, chaz. 932 00:39:44,449 --> 00:39:46,417 I wanna tell y'all something that's gonna save my ass. 933 00:39:46,484 --> 00:39:48,084 Okay. 934 00:39:48,086 --> 00:39:50,954 On our left board dedicated to lauren, 935 00:39:51,022 --> 00:39:52,822 I really feel like in a murder-for-hire, 936 00:39:52,891 --> 00:39:54,824 The person that's the hirer 937 00:39:54,893 --> 00:39:57,127 Who's the instigator who wants it done 938 00:39:57,195 --> 00:39:58,828 Is even worse than the trigger man. 939 00:39:58,897 --> 00:40:01,764 She sets up this "special romantic dinner" 940 00:40:01,833 --> 00:40:03,566 That takes, like, one hour. 941 00:40:03,635 --> 00:40:05,836 And she's texting her lover while she's planning the dinner. 942 00:40:05,904 --> 00:40:07,370 - Theed: That is true. - Hook: Yes. 943 00:40:07,439 --> 00:40:09,372 Well, what about the fact that she tells the kids 944 00:40:09,441 --> 00:40:11,207 To stay in the car? 945 00:40:11,209 --> 00:40:12,141 She said not to get out of the vehicle 946 00:40:12,143 --> 00:40:13,509 And just wait for my sister. 947 00:40:13,578 --> 00:40:15,178 She never told you to stay in the car before? 948 00:40:15,246 --> 00:40:16,413 She's never told me to stay in the car. 949 00:40:17,849 --> 00:40:18,415 Usina: She's the one that has access to the house. 950 00:40:19,951 --> 00:40:20,584 - And there's no forced entry. - Going above and beyond 951 00:40:21,586 --> 00:40:23,118 To try to culminate an alibi. 952 00:40:23,188 --> 00:40:25,255 Lauren's message to joe... 953 00:40:29,060 --> 00:40:31,928 All the text messages in this window of time, 954 00:40:31,997 --> 00:40:34,130 She just overdoes it. 955 00:40:34,132 --> 00:40:36,666 She was done with joe, and their marriage was doomed. 956 00:40:36,734 --> 00:40:38,001 - True. - Yeah. 957 00:40:39,471 --> 00:40:40,870 When you go to your asa, what are you gonna ask him for? 958 00:40:40,940 --> 00:40:43,272 We're gonna ask for first-degree homicide, 959 00:40:43,341 --> 00:40:46,108 Warrants on charles arrants and lauren wall. 960 00:40:46,177 --> 00:40:48,011 Nice. Jason, you feel good about it? 961 00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:50,713 - I do. I feel good. - Great. 962 00:40:55,353 --> 00:41:01,157 Woman: ♪ honey, won't you hold my hand? ♪ 963 00:41:01,159 --> 00:41:05,595 ♪ feels like the walls are falling down ♪ 964 00:41:05,663 --> 00:41:09,499 ♪ things are going through my head ♪ 965 00:41:09,568 --> 00:41:13,704 Today we're gonna go talk to tom and tommy again 966 00:41:13,771 --> 00:41:16,039 And tell them how it went. You excited? 967 00:41:16,041 --> 00:41:19,375 Yeah. We'll talk with them and tell them, you know, 968 00:41:19,377 --> 00:41:21,110 Where we sit with the investigation. 969 00:41:21,179 --> 00:41:23,980 Detective usina set up a meeting with the state's attorney 970 00:41:23,982 --> 00:41:25,615 To run down the case. 971 00:41:25,684 --> 00:41:28,317 - Welcome back. - Hello, tommy. 972 00:41:28,386 --> 00:41:31,120 We're excited to update joe's son and dad 973 00:41:31,122 --> 00:41:32,655 On the progress we've made. 974 00:41:32,724 --> 00:41:36,726 We've went all the way back through this case top to bottom. 975 00:41:36,728 --> 00:41:40,329 Through our investigation, we show probable cause 976 00:41:40,398 --> 00:41:44,200 To believe that lauren wall and charles arrants 977 00:41:44,202 --> 00:41:47,136 Are responsible for your father's death. 978 00:41:47,138 --> 00:41:50,140 We're gonna seek murder charges against them. 979 00:41:50,208 --> 00:41:53,009 - Glad to hear that. - It's extremely good to hear. 980 00:41:53,077 --> 00:41:55,211 What are you thinking about all this? 981 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,146 I mean, it's not gonna make me miss him any less, 982 00:41:57,148 --> 00:41:58,614 Anything like that, 983 00:41:58,683 --> 00:42:01,551 But...I have to live with it. 984 00:42:01,553 --> 00:42:04,521 Did you guys see my sister? How she's doing? 985 00:42:04,589 --> 00:42:07,423 I'm not sure she was home from school when we were there. 986 00:42:07,492 --> 00:42:09,092 All right. 987 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,362 I'm extremely happy there's hope for what's gonna happen soon, 988 00:42:13,431 --> 00:42:16,599 And after seven years, I feel like it's needed. 989 00:42:16,601 --> 00:42:18,901 I really wanted to hear about my sister. 990 00:42:18,903 --> 00:42:20,903 But, I mean, I grew up with her. 991 00:42:20,905 --> 00:42:24,040 [sniffles] it just-- 992 00:42:24,109 --> 00:42:27,043 Having not just one but two and three... 993 00:42:27,111 --> 00:42:29,713 You know, you lose everybody at once. 994 00:42:33,184 --> 00:42:34,650 I want you to know 995 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,986 That your dad's friends all asked how you're doing. 996 00:42:37,056 --> 00:42:38,989 They all still think about you. 997 00:42:39,057 --> 00:42:41,258 - And you're 19, right? - Yes, ma'am. 998 00:42:41,326 --> 00:42:43,059 So you're about to start the next phase of your life. 999 00:42:43,061 --> 00:42:44,660 So you need to focus on yourself. 1000 00:42:44,729 --> 00:42:48,397 Leave it up to him and not let it consume you 1001 00:42:48,466 --> 00:42:51,668 Or make you sad or make you try to fix it all, 1002 00:42:51,736 --> 00:42:52,802 'cause you can't. 1003 00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:54,605 They're working their tails off 1004 00:42:54,672 --> 00:42:57,273 To be able to try and make the system work for you. 1005 00:42:57,342 --> 00:43:00,343 And for you for losing your son. 1006 00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:01,578 Thank you. 1007 00:43:03,214 --> 00:43:03,480 You don't have to say thank you. We're worried about you. Okay? 1008 00:43:04,015 --> 00:43:05,015 All right. 1009 00:43:06,518 --> 00:43:07,417 Siegler: Tommy's whole world was ripped away from him. 1010 00:43:08,653 --> 00:43:11,287 He lost his dad. He lost his little sister. 1011 00:43:11,356 --> 00:43:13,089 He lost his whole family and life 1012 00:43:13,091 --> 00:43:14,657 As he knew it back then. 1013 00:43:14,659 --> 00:43:16,526 Thank you. 1014 00:43:18,562 --> 00:43:21,298 - Thank you. - All right. Bye, tommy. 1015 00:43:21,366 --> 00:43:24,967 Hopefully knowing that now he's finally closer than ever 1016 00:43:24,969 --> 00:43:28,170 To getting justice will give him some peace 1017 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,873 And maybe the ability to move on with his life. 1018 00:43:30,875 --> 00:43:32,242 Something's gonna happen. 1019 00:43:32,310 --> 00:43:35,111 - Will I get some closure soon? - Yeah. 1020 00:43:37,649 --> 00:43:43,286 ♪♪♪