1
00:00:12,712 --> 00:00:15,381
When you get to the house
and you found him,
2
00:00:16,250 --> 00:00:17,750
You knew he was dead, right?
3
00:00:24,258 --> 00:00:26,492
What did you think had happened?
4
00:00:30,397 --> 00:00:33,132
♪ way down in the water ♪
5
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,634
♪ mm-mm-mm ♪
6
00:00:35,703 --> 00:00:37,336
♪ mm-mm-mm ♪
7
00:00:37,338 --> 00:00:39,539
♪ way down in the hole ♪
8
00:00:40,808 --> 00:00:42,742
I'm happy to see you, terri.
9
00:00:42,810 --> 00:00:45,077
I like bringing you all
the way down here to florida.
10
00:00:45,079 --> 00:00:46,746
It's a nice time
to come to florida
11
00:00:46,814 --> 00:00:49,014
When it still cold
up in wisconsin.
12
00:00:49,082 --> 00:00:51,850
Well, we worked a case
also here in putnam county
13
00:00:51,852 --> 00:00:54,486
With the detectives
jason and clayton.
14
00:00:54,555 --> 00:00:55,755
They're young. They're eager.
15
00:00:55,822 --> 00:00:57,222
So you're gonna like
working with them.
16
00:00:57,291 --> 00:00:59,424
Siegler: We're back
in putnam county, florida,
17
00:00:59,493 --> 00:01:02,228
Where we recently looked
into the 2007 case
18
00:01:02,296 --> 00:01:04,095
Of tyvon whitford.
19
00:01:04,165 --> 00:01:07,833
This time the sheriff's office
has asked for our expertise
20
00:01:07,901 --> 00:01:10,670
To help solve the seven-year-old
unsolved homicide
21
00:01:10,672 --> 00:01:14,374
Of family man and veteran marine
thomas joe wall.
22
00:01:14,441 --> 00:01:16,975
Joe was only 34.
23
00:01:17,044 --> 00:01:19,578
He was a baseball coach
for his kids.
24
00:01:19,646 --> 00:01:21,713
He liked to fish.
He liked to drink beer.
25
00:01:21,715 --> 00:01:23,682
Just a regular
good ol' country boy.
26
00:01:23,751 --> 00:01:25,184
It seemed like things
were going well,
27
00:01:25,252 --> 00:01:27,453
And then out of the blue,
something like this happens.
28
00:01:27,521 --> 00:01:29,855
When you're sitting in your
own living room on your couch.
29
00:01:29,923 --> 00:01:30,856
Right.
30
00:01:30,858 --> 00:01:32,991
Siegler: On January 18, 2015,
31
00:01:33,060 --> 00:01:36,728
Joe had spent that day fishing
with his 12-year-old son,
32
00:01:36,730 --> 00:01:38,398
Playing with his
little five-year-old daughter,
33
00:01:38,465 --> 00:01:40,133
And having dinner with his wife.
34
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,402
That night while joe
was relaxing on the couch
35
00:01:43,404 --> 00:01:44,736
And watching a game,
36
00:01:44,805 --> 00:01:47,273
His wife left
to go pick up the kids.
37
00:01:47,341 --> 00:01:50,876
When they returned,
she discovered joe fatally shot.
38
00:01:50,878 --> 00:01:52,611
He was shot
in the top of the head
39
00:01:52,679 --> 00:01:54,147
And the side of the face.
40
00:01:54,214 --> 00:01:55,547
- Close.
- Close.
41
00:01:55,549 --> 00:01:56,682
Yeah, somebody had
to be right there.
42
00:01:58,085 --> 00:01:58,684
There were no signs
of a struggle at the scene.
43
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:00,686
And joe's autopsy revealed
44
00:02:02,189 --> 00:02:03,688
That the only wounds were
the fatal shots to his head.
45
00:02:03,757 --> 00:02:04,957
So there's always been
a question
46
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:06,792
About how the killer
approached him with such ease.
47
00:02:08,195 --> 00:02:10,062
I think it's a really sad case,
and I really hope
48
00:02:10,064 --> 00:02:13,533
That we can try to get
this family some answers
49
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:14,699
To what actually happened.
50
00:02:14,768 --> 00:02:16,235
Plus, you're good luck.
51
00:02:16,237 --> 00:02:17,703
[chuckles] I hope so.
52
00:02:27,181 --> 00:02:28,948
Welcome to the humidity
in florida, terri.
53
00:02:29,016 --> 00:02:29,881
Hook: I know.
54
00:02:29,950 --> 00:02:32,318
Siegler: Hello, guys.
55
00:02:32,386 --> 00:02:33,852
- Hey.
- This is terri hook.
56
00:02:33,921 --> 00:02:35,120
- Hi.
- Hi. I'm klayton usina.
57
00:02:35,122 --> 00:02:36,788
- Jason theed.
- Captain piscitello.
58
00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:38,123
- Terri hook.
- Nice to meet you.
59
00:02:38,191 --> 00:02:39,858
Captain's gonna run down
the case with us.
60
00:02:39,860 --> 00:02:42,195
He was the first person
on scene back then.
61
00:02:42,262 --> 00:02:44,530
I knew the victim,
and I knew the victim's family.
62
00:02:44,598 --> 00:02:47,133
So we're happy that you're here
to work through this with us
63
00:02:47,201 --> 00:02:48,800
And see if there's anything
we can do.
64
00:02:48,802 --> 00:02:50,870
- You wanna get started?
- Yeah. Absolutely. Let's go.
65
00:02:50,938 --> 00:02:53,139
We're exciting about having
kelly and the team back.
66
00:02:53,207 --> 00:02:54,940
We're certainly eager
to get this case solved.
67
00:02:54,942 --> 00:02:56,341
All these years later,
68
00:02:56,410 --> 00:02:58,343
The wall family
is still hurting and grieving.
69
00:02:58,412 --> 00:03:02,215
I wanna get those answers
and resolution for joe's family.
70
00:03:02,282 --> 00:03:04,951
Okay, well, let's start off
with our victim,
71
00:03:05,018 --> 00:03:06,418
Thomas joe wall.
72
00:03:06,486 --> 00:03:07,954
But he goes by joe.
73
00:03:08,021 --> 00:03:10,822
Usina: Joe is former marine.
74
00:03:10,824 --> 00:03:14,826
He was a hell of an athlete
in school. Father of two.
75
00:03:14,895 --> 00:03:17,763
Joe's son, tommy wall,
from a previous marriage,
76
00:03:17,765 --> 00:03:19,231
Was 12 at the time,
77
00:03:19,299 --> 00:03:23,034
And then he had a daughter
with his wife lauren
78
00:03:23,103 --> 00:03:24,904
That was about five years old.
79
00:03:24,972 --> 00:03:26,771
He's a little league
baseball coach,
80
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,641
And so the kids all loved him.
81
00:03:28,709 --> 00:03:30,309
He knows a lot of the families
in the community.
82
00:03:30,311 --> 00:03:32,077
It looks like
he liked to fish, huh?
83
00:03:32,145 --> 00:03:33,045
Yeah.
84
00:03:33,113 --> 00:03:34,380
He had just taken
85
00:03:36,049 --> 00:03:37,249
Some of the little league boys
he coaches fishing that morning.
86
00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:42,454
In 2006 when joe and lauren were
both serving in the military,
87
00:03:42,522 --> 00:03:43,989
They got married.
88
00:03:44,057 --> 00:03:46,191
After they
were both discharged,
89
00:03:46,259 --> 00:03:48,261
Joe went to work
in the family plumbing business,
90
00:03:48,328 --> 00:03:50,663
And lauren focused
on raising the two kids.
91
00:03:50,731 --> 00:03:53,799
Captain, how did
this investigation start out?
92
00:03:53,801 --> 00:03:57,202
Well, January 18th of 2015,
93
00:03:57,204 --> 00:04:00,005
They kids are gone to lauren's
parents' house that night.
94
00:04:00,073 --> 00:04:02,275
And lauren was having a romantic
night with her husband.
95
00:04:02,342 --> 00:04:04,476
- She goes to the store.
- A dollar general.
96
00:04:04,544 --> 00:04:05,611
A dollar general store. Correct.
97
00:04:05,679 --> 00:04:07,279
She goes
and picks up her children.
98
00:04:07,281 --> 00:04:08,480
She comes back home.
99
00:04:10,083 --> 00:04:12,617
And when she opens the door,
she sees joe and then calls 911.
100
00:04:12,619 --> 00:04:14,820
911. What is your emergency?
101
00:04:17,057 --> 00:04:17,956
[crying]
102
00:04:19,426 --> 00:04:20,125
You need an ambulance
or an officer?
103
00:04:24,097 --> 00:04:26,498
I got there.
Lauren was visibly upset.
104
00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:28,968
We see joe laying on the couch.
105
00:04:29,036 --> 00:04:32,538
We realized that he had been
shot in the back of the head.
106
00:04:32,606 --> 00:04:34,072
There was no signs
of a burglary
107
00:04:34,141 --> 00:04:36,709
Other than the sliding
glass doors were open,
108
00:04:36,777 --> 00:04:39,211
And they weren't supposed
to be open.
109
00:04:39,213 --> 00:04:40,413
Siegler: Bullet fragments
suggested
110
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,982
That 38-caliber class rounds
were used,
111
00:04:43,984 --> 00:04:47,086
But the murder weapon itself
was never recovered.
112
00:04:47,153 --> 00:04:51,256
And with no signs
of any forced entry or robbery,
113
00:04:51,324 --> 00:04:54,125
Investigators started looking
at the person closest to joe,
114
00:04:54,127 --> 00:04:55,327
His wife.
115
00:04:55,329 --> 00:04:58,731
First up here,
we got lauren wall.
116
00:04:58,799 --> 00:04:59,932
They've been married
for how long?
117
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,199
Approximately nine years.
118
00:05:01,268 --> 00:05:03,002
What do we know
about the marriage?
119
00:05:03,070 --> 00:05:05,737
- It's not happy.
- A troubled marriage.
120
00:05:05,806 --> 00:05:07,005
She's considering leaving.
121
00:05:07,074 --> 00:05:08,540
During her initial interview,
122
00:05:08,608 --> 00:05:10,610
Lauren was open
about her strained marriage,
123
00:05:10,677 --> 00:05:12,744
And she did admit
that she was having
124
00:05:12,813 --> 00:05:15,681
A long-distance relationship
with nick carter.
125
00:05:15,749 --> 00:05:18,116
You still talk?
126
00:05:19,753 --> 00:05:21,686
Hook: Nick was living
out of state at the time
127
00:05:21,755 --> 00:05:23,221
And was never considered
a suspect.
128
00:05:23,290 --> 00:05:24,957
But lauren is still
with him today.
129
00:05:25,025 --> 00:05:26,758
So if she did kill her husband,
130
00:05:26,827 --> 00:05:28,494
It makes you wonder
if nick's the motive.
131
00:05:28,562 --> 00:05:31,630
Let's talk about all the things
that seem unusual
132
00:05:31,632 --> 00:05:33,698
Before joe was found.
133
00:05:33,767 --> 00:05:36,100
There was
the "romantic" dinner.
134
00:05:36,169 --> 00:05:38,036
And I'm gonna put "romantic"
in quotes.
135
00:05:38,038 --> 00:05:39,170
- Sneed: Okay.
- Well, the other weird thing
136
00:05:39,239 --> 00:05:40,839
Is she took the dog with her.
137
00:05:40,907 --> 00:05:42,040
Why take the dog?
138
00:05:42,042 --> 00:05:43,508
According to lauren,
139
00:05:43,577 --> 00:05:45,911
She took the kids and her dog
to her parents' house
140
00:05:45,913 --> 00:05:48,513
So that she and joe could have
a romantic dinner
141
00:05:48,582 --> 00:05:50,448
And work on their relationship.
142
00:05:50,518 --> 00:05:51,850
But if that's the case,
143
00:05:51,919 --> 00:05:53,085
Why did she go
to the dollar general?
144
00:05:54,621 --> 00:05:57,255
She makes a call from
the dollar general to the house.
145
00:05:57,324 --> 00:05:59,058
Theed: And it's
with dollar general's phone.
146
00:05:59,126 --> 00:06:01,059
- Hook: Right.
- Why use their phone?
147
00:06:01,128 --> 00:06:03,395
Right. When she has her own.
148
00:06:03,397 --> 00:06:05,830
Siegler: After lauren left
the dollar general store,
149
00:06:05,899 --> 00:06:07,198
She went to her parents' house
150
00:06:07,267 --> 00:06:09,534
To pick up the kids
and their landscaper
151
00:06:09,603 --> 00:06:11,937
Who she also gave
a ride home, too, that night.
152
00:06:12,005 --> 00:06:14,806
What she initially failed
to tell the investigators
153
00:06:14,875 --> 00:06:17,209
Was that she stopped
at the kangaroo store
154
00:06:17,277 --> 00:06:18,610
Along the way.
155
00:06:18,612 --> 00:06:20,146
What happens with that receipt?
156
00:06:20,213 --> 00:06:23,082
- She actually throws it away.
- At the scene.
157
00:06:23,150 --> 00:06:25,217
Theed: At the scene.
Into the kitchen trash can.
158
00:06:25,285 --> 00:06:26,418
I like that.
159
00:06:27,821 --> 00:06:29,221
After the receipt was found,
then lauren admitted
160
00:06:29,289 --> 00:06:31,323
That she had stopped
at the kangaroo store
161
00:06:31,325 --> 00:06:35,093
Where she bought cigarettes
and beer for their landscaper.
162
00:06:35,162 --> 00:06:38,831
But it's odd that she left out
this seemingly innocuous detail.
163
00:06:38,899 --> 00:06:40,432
I don't know
your relation to him.
164
00:06:40,434 --> 00:06:42,734
Y'all were
clearly together tonight.
165
00:06:46,507 --> 00:06:49,174
It seemed like lauren
was trying to minimize
166
00:06:49,176 --> 00:06:52,712
Her relationship with her
landscaper, charles arrants,
167
00:06:52,779 --> 00:06:55,114
And the contact
that they had that night.
168
00:06:55,182 --> 00:06:59,050
Okay, so y'all wanna put up
charles "chaz" arrants next.
169
00:06:59,119 --> 00:07:02,654
Hook:
He is the parents' landscaper.
170
00:07:02,722 --> 00:07:05,124
He says there's no relationship
between him and lauren.
171
00:07:05,192 --> 00:07:06,791
What else do we need
to put up here?
172
00:07:06,793 --> 00:07:08,126
Theed:
Purchase of the bullets.
173
00:07:08,195 --> 00:07:09,060
Do we know what kind
of bullets he bought?
174
00:07:09,129 --> 00:07:10,862
- .357.
- Yeah.
175
00:07:10,931 --> 00:07:12,463
Siegler:
Charles told law enforcement
176
00:07:12,533 --> 00:07:15,066
That he purchased .357 bullets
for a friend to go hunting.
177
00:07:15,068 --> 00:07:16,935
Not only
are these bullets consistent
178
00:07:17,003 --> 00:07:18,670
With the rounds
that were used to kill joe,
179
00:07:18,672 --> 00:07:21,073
They were bought just
a few weeks before the homicide.
180
00:07:21,141 --> 00:07:24,809
Okay, so we're gonna put the
whole lauren's family up here,
181
00:07:24,811 --> 00:07:28,413
Decide if we all believe
that they had any involvement
182
00:07:28,481 --> 00:07:30,815
Before the murder or after,
if at all.
183
00:07:30,884 --> 00:07:33,152
Obviously,
it's a close-knit family.
184
00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:35,820
Right? That's not necessarily
a bad thing.
185
00:07:35,889 --> 00:07:39,090
Mom and dad
immediately hires a lawyer
186
00:07:39,092 --> 00:07:41,760
On lauren
and the family's behalf.
187
00:07:41,828 --> 00:07:43,094
The very next day.
188
00:07:43,096 --> 00:07:46,097
And now they're together
in bessemer, michigan
189
00:07:46,099 --> 00:07:47,765
Up in the middle of nowhere.
190
00:07:47,834 --> 00:07:49,267
The night of the murder,
lauren's parents
191
00:07:49,336 --> 00:07:50,835
Were taking care of her kids.
192
00:07:50,837 --> 00:07:53,838
But in the months that follow,
lauren and her parents
193
00:07:53,907 --> 00:07:55,974
Bought property
in upper state michigan,
194
00:07:56,043 --> 00:07:58,043
Where they still live today.
195
00:07:58,045 --> 00:08:00,513
So, were they trying
to get her out of town
196
00:08:00,580 --> 00:08:03,581
For a fresh start,
or were they helping her escape?
197
00:08:03,651 --> 00:08:07,185
Okay, let's talk about, is there
an unknown random intruder?
198
00:08:07,254 --> 00:08:08,720
- Right?
- Correct.
199
00:08:08,788 --> 00:08:10,421
What about that sliding door?
200
00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:14,726
Usina: The sliding door
is unsecure and slightly ajar.
201
00:08:14,728 --> 00:08:17,128
Rumors of drug usage.
202
00:08:17,130 --> 00:08:19,130
Drug involved, question mark.
203
00:08:19,199 --> 00:08:21,200
Hook: When investigators
first looked at joe's murder,
204
00:08:21,268 --> 00:08:25,136
Rumors started to surface that
he was using or selling drugs.
205
00:08:25,205 --> 00:08:27,071
We'll have to see if there's
any truth to these rumors
206
00:08:27,140 --> 00:08:28,607
And if it has anything to do
with his death.
207
00:08:28,609 --> 00:08:31,877
That's a pretty
good-looking board already.
208
00:08:36,416 --> 00:08:42,320
♪♪♪
209
00:08:45,525 --> 00:08:48,760
When everything happened,
the 12-year-old son, tommy,
210
00:08:48,828 --> 00:08:52,430
Ended up being raised
by joe's dad, his grandpa.
211
00:08:52,498 --> 00:08:55,700
It seems like he's kind of lost
his whole family in all this.
212
00:08:55,769 --> 00:08:57,635
His whole life changed.
213
00:08:57,704 --> 00:08:59,938
Usina: Seven years is a long
time to go without answers.
214
00:09:04,210 --> 00:09:05,443
- Tommy: Hi.
- Siegler: Hello.
215
00:09:05,512 --> 00:09:06,978
- Hey, man. Tommy?
- That's me.
216
00:09:07,047 --> 00:09:08,980
- Klayton usina.
- I'm kelly.
217
00:09:09,049 --> 00:09:09,981
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
218
00:09:09,983 --> 00:09:11,517
When joe was murdered,
219
00:09:11,585 --> 00:09:14,919
His son, tommy,
lost not only his dad.
220
00:09:14,988 --> 00:09:16,722
He lost his entire family.
221
00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:19,657
His stepmother, lauren,
took away his little sister
222
00:09:19,726 --> 00:09:21,460
And moved her to another state
223
00:09:21,527 --> 00:09:23,394
To start their new life
with nick carter,
224
00:09:23,396 --> 00:09:25,330
Leaving tommy behind.
225
00:09:25,332 --> 00:09:27,332
Tommy has not heard
from them since.
226
00:09:27,334 --> 00:09:29,601
Tell us about your daddy.
227
00:09:29,669 --> 00:09:31,270
Played sports together.
228
00:09:31,338 --> 00:09:33,672
I mean, I looked up to him,
you know.
229
00:09:33,740 --> 00:09:35,073
Was he your coach?
230
00:09:35,141 --> 00:09:37,275
Yeah. He had me out there
on the tee
231
00:09:37,344 --> 00:09:39,678
Hitting 500 pitches every day.
232
00:09:39,746 --> 00:09:42,748
He personally helped me,
you know, with homework,
233
00:09:42,816 --> 00:09:44,615
If I needed help with homework
or something like that.
234
00:09:44,685 --> 00:09:47,685
He played in high school
for four years on the varsity.
235
00:09:47,687 --> 00:09:49,821
He played football.
He was a heck of an athlete.
236
00:09:49,890 --> 00:09:51,690
What made him decide
to go into the marine corps?
237
00:09:51,758 --> 00:09:53,958
9/11 was his birthday.
238
00:09:54,027 --> 00:09:56,561
So he decided he was gonna go
into the marine corps.
239
00:09:56,629 --> 00:09:59,230
He had two tours over there
in iraq.
240
00:09:59,232 --> 00:10:03,168
I spent, like--[sniffles]
a lot of time with him.
241
00:10:03,236 --> 00:10:05,503
He taught me everything I knew
about baseball,
242
00:10:05,572 --> 00:10:08,107
Everything I knew
about almost anything.
243
00:10:08,174 --> 00:10:10,375
I just--I looked up to him.
244
00:10:10,443 --> 00:10:13,312
I don't think I could've asked
for a better dad.
245
00:10:15,315 --> 00:10:17,649
What do you remember
about that night?
246
00:10:17,651 --> 00:10:19,451
Me and dad played,
I think, madden
247
00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:21,252
On the playstation
for a little bit.
248
00:10:21,254 --> 00:10:24,389
And then we left
and we went to laurie's house.
249
00:10:24,457 --> 00:10:25,990
Who's we?
250
00:10:26,059 --> 00:10:27,993
Me, my sister, and my mom.
251
00:10:28,061 --> 00:10:29,595
It feels weird calling her mom.
252
00:10:29,663 --> 00:10:30,695
It's okay.
253
00:10:32,065 --> 00:10:33,732
Lauren leaves
for a certain amount of time.
254
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,201
And then she comes back,
and then we went home.
255
00:10:37,270 --> 00:10:39,337
I was going to get
out of the vehicle,
256
00:10:39,406 --> 00:10:42,073
And lauren told me no.
257
00:10:42,075 --> 00:10:43,274
She said not
to get out of the vehicle
258
00:10:43,343 --> 00:10:44,675
And just wait for my sister.
259
00:10:44,745 --> 00:10:46,210
She never told you
to stay in the car before?
260
00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:48,213
She's never told me
to stay in the car.
261
00:10:48,215 --> 00:10:50,415
I waited.
She walks up to the front door,
262
00:10:50,483 --> 00:10:53,284
Drops her groceries,
runs inside,
263
00:10:53,353 --> 00:10:55,019
Comes back outside.
264
00:10:55,088 --> 00:10:57,355
And then from there,
it's kind of a blur.
265
00:10:57,424 --> 00:11:00,826
I'm extremely upset at the time,
not knowing what's going on,
266
00:11:00,894 --> 00:11:03,227
And the only thing I can think
about is keeping my sister calm
267
00:11:03,296 --> 00:11:05,563
And keeping her okay.
268
00:11:05,632 --> 00:11:07,498
Sorry.
269
00:11:07,567 --> 00:11:10,368
I was so upset the entire time,
270
00:11:10,437 --> 00:11:12,904
And I couldn't understand why my
sister was going somewhere else.
271
00:11:12,906 --> 00:11:15,106
Like...
272
00:11:15,175 --> 00:11:17,175
It was just--it's ridiculous.
273
00:11:17,243 --> 00:11:20,312
I haven't seen my sister
since I was like 12.
274
00:11:20,380 --> 00:11:23,382
I mean, I spent like
every day with her.
275
00:11:23,450 --> 00:11:28,052
She said that I was
her favorite person. [sighs]
276
00:11:28,121 --> 00:11:31,723
Well, we're doing all this
for you, you know, and for you.
277
00:11:31,725 --> 00:11:33,591
But mostly for you. Okay?
278
00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,793
We're gonna try
our very hardest, okay?
279
00:11:35,862 --> 00:11:37,328
I want you to know that.
280
00:11:37,330 --> 00:11:39,597
- We'd like to see closure.
- How about justice?
281
00:11:39,666 --> 00:11:41,599
- Yeah.
- I don't believe in closure.
282
00:11:41,668 --> 00:11:43,601
Closure means
that you get your son back.
283
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:46,171
Let's just hold accountable
whoever did this.
284
00:11:57,850 --> 00:12:00,018
We'll go ahead and knock out
the dna call,
285
00:12:00,954 --> 00:12:01,552
See if we got anything new.
286
00:12:01,621 --> 00:12:02,755
Siegler: Okay.
287
00:12:02,822 --> 00:12:05,090
- [line ringing]
- in 2015,
288
00:12:05,158 --> 00:12:07,658
Joe wall was fatally shot
in his living room.
289
00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:09,894
There were no signs
of forced entry,
290
00:12:09,963 --> 00:12:13,898
But a rear sliding glass door
was left ajar.
291
00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:17,235
We sent swabs from its handle
and the front door handle
292
00:12:17,237 --> 00:12:18,903
Off for dna testing.
293
00:12:18,972 --> 00:12:22,974
A match to joe's wife, lauren,
wouldn't really be of any help.
294
00:12:23,042 --> 00:12:27,445
But if the dna from those swabs
matched charles "chaz" arrants
295
00:12:27,514 --> 00:12:30,548
Or somebody else,
that could identify our shooter.
296
00:12:56,476 --> 00:12:57,775
- We appreciate it.
- Good talking to you guys.
297
00:12:57,844 --> 00:12:59,877
- Yep. Thanks, danny.
- Hook: Thank you.
298
00:12:59,946 --> 00:13:01,479
Siegler: That's no surprise.
299
00:13:01,548 --> 00:13:03,948
If you got an unknown profile,
how are you ever gonna match it?
300
00:13:04,017 --> 00:13:06,083
I know.
But if you get an unknown
301
00:13:06,152 --> 00:13:07,952
And you can match it
to charles...
302
00:13:08,021 --> 00:13:09,220
- Good try.
- Yeah.
303
00:13:09,289 --> 00:13:11,623
- Good dedication.
- [all laughing]
304
00:13:18,665 --> 00:13:22,233
It's disappointing that
the dna results came up empty,
305
00:13:22,302 --> 00:13:24,703
But cold cases
are rarely that easy.
306
00:13:24,771 --> 00:13:26,671
We're hoping
this is mike whippel.
307
00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:28,439
So now we're gonna hit
the streets
308
00:13:28,508 --> 00:13:30,975
And start talking to everybody
that we can find in joe's world.
309
00:13:31,044 --> 00:13:33,912
Hey, mike. Detective theed with
putnam county sheriff's office.
310
00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:37,648
We wanna learn all that we can
about lauren and joe's marriage
311
00:13:37,717 --> 00:13:40,819
Or any problems joe might
have had with anyone else,
312
00:13:40,887 --> 00:13:42,520
Including this rumor
313
00:13:42,522 --> 00:13:44,188
That joe might have been
involved with drugs.
314
00:13:44,257 --> 00:13:45,791
Theed: We just wanted
to pick your brain
315
00:13:45,859 --> 00:13:49,060
From what you could remember
in the thomas wall homicide.
316
00:13:49,062 --> 00:13:51,329
What kind of guy was he?
317
00:13:51,397 --> 00:13:53,398
We hung out quite a bit.
Went fishing a lot.
318
00:14:07,146 --> 00:14:08,213
Okay.
319
00:14:08,281 --> 00:14:09,815
Do you know
if joe was into drugs
320
00:14:09,883 --> 00:14:12,483
Or selling drugs
or anything like that?
321
00:14:12,553 --> 00:14:13,485
No.
322
00:14:18,157 --> 00:14:20,692
Was he a drug user
or was he selling drugs?
323
00:14:23,129 --> 00:14:25,697
Did he have any enemies
that you're aware of?
324
00:14:29,636 --> 00:14:31,436
Okay.
325
00:14:31,438 --> 00:14:32,771
Siegler: It sounds
like all these rumors
326
00:14:32,773 --> 00:14:34,639
About joe
being involved with drugs
327
00:14:34,641 --> 00:14:36,540
Were simply that--
just a bunch of rumors.
328
00:14:36,609 --> 00:14:39,510
Do you know
what the relationship was like
329
00:14:39,579 --> 00:14:41,713
Between lauren and joe?
330
00:14:54,060 --> 00:14:55,660
How much did he confide in you
331
00:14:55,728 --> 00:14:57,795
About how the marriage
was going?
332
00:14:57,797 --> 00:15:01,200
I knew he wasn't happy.
I don't know why.
333
00:15:01,267 --> 00:15:03,202
But we'd drink, you know,
after work,
334
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:05,503
And he'd start getting sad.
335
00:15:14,481 --> 00:15:16,714
And why did he think that was?
336
00:15:21,087 --> 00:15:24,589
And this happened how much
before he ends up murdered?
337
00:15:28,027 --> 00:15:30,628
We knew that lauren
wasn't happy in her marriage
338
00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:32,897
And had begun talking
with nick carter.
339
00:15:32,966 --> 00:15:34,966
But he lived out of state.
340
00:15:35,034 --> 00:15:37,902
So if joe suspected
that lauren was having an affair
341
00:15:37,971 --> 00:15:38,870
With somebody in town,
342
00:15:40,140 --> 00:15:41,906
Could that person
have been charles arrants?
343
00:15:41,974 --> 00:15:45,577
Did one of you have
a significant other on the side?
344
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:57,856
Hello. I'm terri.
345
00:15:57,924 --> 00:16:00,791
- Nice to meet you. I'm ray.
- Joel. Nice to meet you.
346
00:16:00,860 --> 00:16:03,594
Joe's brother, ray,
and his co-worker, joel,
347
00:16:03,596 --> 00:16:05,930
Were close to joe and lauren
at the time of his murder.
348
00:16:05,932 --> 00:16:08,132
Hopefully, they'll have
some insight into her behavior.
349
00:16:08,201 --> 00:16:10,134
That night I texted them.
350
00:16:10,203 --> 00:16:12,470
It was like 7:00-ish,
7:30-ish.
351
00:16:12,538 --> 00:16:15,273
We were both watching
a patriots playoff game.
352
00:16:15,342 --> 00:16:17,475
We were talking about two texts.
353
00:16:17,477 --> 00:16:19,009
Hook: Ray was texting joe
during the time
354
00:16:19,079 --> 00:16:22,013
He was allegedly having
a romantic dinner with his wife.
355
00:16:22,082 --> 00:16:24,148
Maybe it wasn't as romantic
as lauren made it out to be.
356
00:16:24,217 --> 00:16:28,953
What was the relationship like
between her and joe
357
00:16:28,955 --> 00:16:31,089
Leading up to his death?
358
00:16:31,157 --> 00:16:35,093
My brother was always
kind of to himself about that.
359
00:16:36,296 --> 00:16:39,096
But there's been a lot
of instances in their marriage
360
00:16:39,165 --> 00:16:40,564
That I can remember.
361
00:16:40,633 --> 00:16:42,833
She would constantly go
and go and go and be gone,
362
00:16:42,902 --> 00:16:45,636
And, like, he kind
of questioned her where she went
363
00:16:45,705 --> 00:16:46,971
Or what she was doing.
364
00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,508
It was like nothing
was ever good enough.
365
00:16:50,510 --> 00:16:52,843
She was pretty vindictive
and just nasty.
366
00:16:52,912 --> 00:16:55,314
But she was one of the
strangest people I've ever met.
367
00:16:55,381 --> 00:16:58,382
She thinks she's the smartest.
Apparently, she's pretty clever.
368
00:16:58,452 --> 00:17:00,718
Never met anybody
quite like her.
369
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,454
You see her at the funeral,
and then seeing her that night,
370
00:17:03,523 --> 00:17:05,990
I saw no, like, tears,
no crying,
371
00:17:06,059 --> 00:17:09,794
No remorse, no being upset,
nothing like that.
372
00:17:09,862 --> 00:17:12,863
The insurance policy,
which we found out later,
373
00:17:12,932 --> 00:17:16,600
It paid $600,000
for the term insurance policy.
374
00:17:16,669 --> 00:17:18,402
He was murdered literally
like less than a month
375
00:17:18,471 --> 00:17:21,539
Before the policy came to term.
376
00:17:21,541 --> 00:17:23,608
Hook: We've been considering
the possibility
377
00:17:23,676 --> 00:17:26,278
That lauren's relationship
with nick carter was her motive.
378
00:17:26,345 --> 00:17:29,013
But hearing about her husband's
life insurance policy,
379
00:17:29,082 --> 00:17:31,416
It sounds like there's over
half a million other reasons
380
00:17:31,418 --> 00:17:32,850
To want him dead.
381
00:17:45,697 --> 00:17:47,432
We got lots
of stuff today, eric.
382
00:17:48,668 --> 00:17:48,699
- Afternoon. How are y'all?
- All: Good.
383
00:17:49,635 --> 00:17:50,835
We have two potential motives
384
00:17:50,904 --> 00:17:53,437
For lauren to have wanted
her husband dead--
385
00:17:53,506 --> 00:17:54,905
Love and money.
386
00:17:54,907 --> 00:17:56,674
But we still have questions
387
00:17:56,676 --> 00:17:58,709
About the relationships
in her life,
388
00:17:58,778 --> 00:18:01,645
Especially with her
family landscaper,
389
00:18:01,714 --> 00:18:03,647
Charles "chaz" arrants.
390
00:18:03,716 --> 00:18:05,283
- Ready to get started?
- Yeah.
391
00:18:05,351 --> 00:18:07,986
She's always minimized
their relationship,
392
00:18:08,054 --> 00:18:09,854
But maybe phone records
can tell us
393
00:18:09,856 --> 00:18:12,056
If there's more to it
than she's letting on.
394
00:18:12,124 --> 00:18:15,527
First, this is all calls between
lauren and charles arrants.
395
00:18:16,863 --> 00:18:21,266
12/30/2014 through 1/18.
You've got a lot of calls.
396
00:18:21,334 --> 00:18:22,601
Whoa.
397
00:18:22,668 --> 00:18:24,268
So, the three weeks
leading up to the murder,
398
00:18:24,337 --> 00:18:25,469
She called chaz a lot.
399
00:18:25,538 --> 00:18:27,838
- Yeah.
- That stands out to me--1/10.
400
00:18:27,907 --> 00:18:30,642
I mean, 23 minutes
with your landscaper?
401
00:18:30,709 --> 00:18:32,944
They had that long one
on the 14th.
402
00:18:33,012 --> 00:18:35,813
- 46 minutes.
- That's a lot of talking.
403
00:18:35,882 --> 00:18:37,882
Hook: The frequency of the calls
leads us to believe
404
00:18:37,950 --> 00:18:39,884
That they may have had
an intimate relationship.
405
00:18:39,886 --> 00:18:41,686
But it's odd,
considering she's having
406
00:18:41,754 --> 00:18:43,621
An emotional affair
with nick carter.
407
00:18:43,623 --> 00:18:45,890
Moving on to
lauren's messaging activity,
408
00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:47,324
1/18/2015.
409
00:18:47,393 --> 00:18:49,827
- This is the day of our murder?
- The day of our murder.
410
00:18:49,896 --> 00:18:51,896
- Okay.
- 6:38 p.M.
411
00:18:51,898 --> 00:18:53,999
Message from nick carter...
412
00:18:55,168 --> 00:18:56,334
She replies...
413
00:18:58,037 --> 00:18:59,503
Then nick carter...
414
00:19:02,041 --> 00:19:03,908
For her romantic dinner
preparation with her husband.
415
00:19:03,976 --> 00:19:07,378
She's cooking her dinner
to try to make it right.
416
00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:09,914
Seeing those text messages
between them that night
417
00:19:09,916 --> 00:19:11,316
Tells us all we need to know
418
00:19:11,384 --> 00:19:13,918
About her alleged romantic
dinner with her husband.
419
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,920
In any case,
we know after dinner
420
00:19:15,922 --> 00:19:17,521
She left for the dollar general.
421
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:19,924
The question is,
was her husband still alive?
422
00:19:19,992 --> 00:19:23,661
Then sends a message
to her husband 8:03 p.M...
423
00:19:28,401 --> 00:19:30,902
At this point in time,
he's still alive here.
424
00:19:30,970 --> 00:19:32,236
He's communi--he's texting.
425
00:19:32,305 --> 00:19:34,605
He replies...
426
00:19:34,607 --> 00:19:36,874
She replies...
427
00:19:36,876 --> 00:19:39,476
He replies at 8:10 p.M...
428
00:19:39,545 --> 00:19:40,945
"I don't know."
429
00:19:40,947 --> 00:19:43,881
That was the last message
from joe.
430
00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:45,549
So, we think
he's dead around 8:10
431
00:19:45,618 --> 00:19:46,884
Based on their communication?
432
00:19:46,953 --> 00:19:48,019
Mm-hmm.
433
00:19:49,422 --> 00:19:50,621
There's no evidence
that anybody other than joe
434
00:19:50,623 --> 00:19:52,423
Was responding
to lauren's texts.
435
00:19:52,492 --> 00:19:54,625
That means that joe was alive
436
00:19:54,627 --> 00:19:56,527
When lauren left
for dollar general,
437
00:19:56,596 --> 00:19:58,696
And it's unlikely
that she was the shooter,
438
00:19:58,765 --> 00:20:00,097
But it doesn't mean
439
00:20:00,099 --> 00:20:02,233
That she wasn't still involved
in this case.
440
00:20:02,301 --> 00:20:04,769
Moving on. 8:17 p.M.
441
00:20:04,771 --> 00:20:07,138
Lauren's message to joe...
442
00:20:09,775 --> 00:20:12,977
Nick carter butts in again...
443
00:20:12,979 --> 00:20:15,246
Lauren sends a message
to nick carter...
444
00:20:16,049 --> 00:20:19,483
9:41 p.M.,
lauren sends a message to joe...
445
00:20:24,190 --> 00:20:27,992
Since earlier on,
nothing has come from joe.
446
00:20:27,994 --> 00:20:29,528
- Right.
- They're all from her.
447
00:20:29,595 --> 00:20:31,395
Here's what I found
was interesting.
448
00:20:31,464 --> 00:20:35,599
From January 11, 2015
through January 17, 2015,
449
00:20:35,668 --> 00:20:37,601
There were zero messages
to joe wall.
450
00:20:37,670 --> 00:20:39,136
No texting at all.
451
00:20:39,205 --> 00:20:41,805
- No texting from lauren to joe.
- Ooh, I like that.
452
00:20:41,874 --> 00:20:43,807
Clearly, she's trying
to over-text him.
453
00:20:43,877 --> 00:20:46,010
- Right.
- She's covering herself.
454
00:20:46,012 --> 00:20:49,414
It's possible that lauren
was texting joe that night
455
00:20:49,482 --> 00:20:51,683
To help craft her alibi.
456
00:20:51,751 --> 00:20:53,617
But what she might
have overlooked
457
00:20:53,686 --> 00:20:56,020
Is that law enforcement
could also uncover
458
00:20:56,022 --> 00:20:58,956
All of her flirtatious texting
with nick carter.
459
00:20:59,025 --> 00:21:03,293
Strangely, she did not text
or call chaz that night.
460
00:21:03,363 --> 00:21:06,697
So if he's involved,
it's still unclear how.
461
00:21:06,766 --> 00:21:08,966
- Thank you, eric. Thank you.
- Yeah.
462
00:21:09,035 --> 00:21:10,968
Maybe examining the crime scene
463
00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:12,537
Will help us figure out
what we're missing.
464
00:21:17,543 --> 00:21:19,377
When we get there,
let's pick apart
465
00:21:19,379 --> 00:21:23,181
Where we know the gunshot wound
enters his head
466
00:21:23,249 --> 00:21:25,516
And then where were
all the doors in the house,
467
00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:27,585
Right.
468
00:21:31,657 --> 00:21:32,890
No.
469
00:21:40,833 --> 00:21:43,000
- Usina: Good morning.
- Good morning.
470
00:21:43,069 --> 00:21:44,802
So, y'all got us
in the actual house.
471
00:21:44,871 --> 00:21:46,938
- Yes, ma'am.
- Okay, let's go see.
472
00:21:47,006 --> 00:21:48,806
There were no signs
of a struggle
473
00:21:48,875 --> 00:21:51,076
Or any defensive wounds on joe
474
00:21:51,143 --> 00:21:53,744
Suggesting that joe
either didn't see his killer
475
00:21:53,813 --> 00:21:55,879
Or had no time at all to react.
476
00:21:55,949 --> 00:21:57,681
Here's our living room.
477
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:59,283
So, how was he approached,
478
00:21:59,351 --> 00:22:02,286
And what does that tell us
about his killer?
479
00:22:02,355 --> 00:22:06,090
The trajectory of his wounds
should give us some answers.
480
00:22:06,092 --> 00:22:08,759
We know he's found on the couch.
Get down there.
481
00:22:08,761 --> 00:22:10,295
Now, he's watching tv.
482
00:22:10,363 --> 00:22:12,163
So, now let's talk about
483
00:22:12,231 --> 00:22:15,165
Exactly where we think
the entry wound is.
484
00:22:15,167 --> 00:22:18,102
I think the first shot
goes, like, right here...
485
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:19,636
[bang]
486
00:22:19,705 --> 00:22:21,239
...And it goes diagonally
down here,
487
00:22:21,307 --> 00:22:23,708
And he slumps over like that,
and now he hits him again.
488
00:22:23,776 --> 00:22:25,643
And then the next one
is right there.
489
00:22:25,712 --> 00:22:27,145
[bang]
490
00:22:27,213 --> 00:22:28,779
That's the one
that came out of his mouth.
491
00:22:28,781 --> 00:22:30,381
- Yep.
- Based on his injuries,
492
00:22:30,449 --> 00:22:32,849
It appears that joe was sitting
upright when he was shot.
493
00:22:32,851 --> 00:22:34,118
Being a former marine,
494
00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:36,120
You'd think that joe
would defend himself
495
00:22:36,122 --> 00:22:39,122
If he saw someone enter his home
with a pistol or a rifle.
496
00:22:39,191 --> 00:22:41,458
His killer must have gotten
the shots off quickly.
497
00:22:41,527 --> 00:22:43,060
So, which door did he come in?
498
00:22:43,129 --> 00:22:45,797
If you shoot from here, you
can't even make the first shot.
499
00:22:45,865 --> 00:22:47,264
You're shooting back.
500
00:22:47,333 --> 00:22:49,533
- Now doing this, no.
- It's not the angle.
501
00:22:49,602 --> 00:22:51,235
Totally.
502
00:22:51,303 --> 00:22:53,403
Hook: Considering the angle
and trajectory of the wounds,
503
00:22:53,473 --> 00:22:56,673
It appears a shot from the rear
sliding glass door doesn't work.
504
00:22:56,742 --> 00:22:58,142
What about the front door?
505
00:22:58,144 --> 00:22:59,610
You come through the front door.
506
00:22:59,678 --> 00:23:01,011
No way.
507
00:23:01,081 --> 00:23:03,280
You can't make the angle
of the shot.
508
00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:05,216
Well, yeah, you can't shoot him
from over...
509
00:23:05,284 --> 00:23:07,184
And he's not gonna get the time
to walk away
510
00:23:07,253 --> 00:23:09,019
And do it
from the right direction.
511
00:23:09,088 --> 00:23:10,554
Hook: A shot from the front door
doesn't work either.
512
00:23:10,623 --> 00:23:13,725
This leaves us with an even more
sinister scenario.
513
00:23:13,793 --> 00:23:16,093
Joe's killer
was already inside the house.
514
00:23:16,161 --> 00:23:18,830
If somebody helped lauren--
chaz or whoever--
515
00:23:18,898 --> 00:23:21,966
The only door's here and here,
and here's joe.
516
00:23:22,034 --> 00:23:25,402
You can slip chaz in that door
right here in the garage.
517
00:23:25,471 --> 00:23:27,437
If you remember
from the crime-scene photos,
518
00:23:27,507 --> 00:23:29,708
This was just
packed full of stuff.
519
00:23:29,775 --> 00:23:33,177
That's why I think he could hide
in here 'cause it was mess.
520
00:23:33,245 --> 00:23:35,513
So, you have somebody
hiding out in here.
521
00:23:35,515 --> 00:23:38,449
You come out of this room.
You come around this corner.
522
00:23:38,517 --> 00:23:39,983
You make your shot.
523
00:23:40,052 --> 00:23:41,886
We can't say for sure
how or when
524
00:23:41,954 --> 00:23:43,988
Lauren might have let charles
into the garage,
525
00:23:44,056 --> 00:23:45,789
But it's possible
he was lying in wait
526
00:23:45,858 --> 00:23:47,257
For the right time to strike.
527
00:23:47,259 --> 00:23:49,260
And with this scenario,
you have to wonder
528
00:23:49,328 --> 00:23:51,062
If lauren got the dog
out of the house that night
529
00:23:51,130 --> 00:23:52,130
Because it may have warned joe.
530
00:23:53,366 --> 00:23:54,799
Klayton, go in the garage
and then come in.
531
00:24:00,339 --> 00:24:02,473
Bang.
532
00:24:02,541 --> 00:24:04,274
Reload.
533
00:24:04,276 --> 00:24:05,643
Bang.
534
00:24:06,679 --> 00:24:08,011
Can you see me?
535
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,347
No. Not in my peripheral at all.
536
00:24:10,349 --> 00:24:12,683
You're here.
You're getting this thing open,
537
00:24:12,752 --> 00:24:14,218
And then you're running.
538
00:24:14,286 --> 00:24:16,286
Hook: Booking through the woods.
539
00:24:16,355 --> 00:24:18,022
Siegler: If lauren
persuaded charles
540
00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:19,357
To kill her husband,
541
00:24:19,425 --> 00:24:21,425
This scenario makes
the most sense.
542
00:24:21,493 --> 00:24:23,827
While she's out
crafting an alibi,
543
00:24:23,829 --> 00:24:25,829
Chaz is sneaking up on joe
544
00:24:25,898 --> 00:24:27,764
Sitting there peacefully
and vulnerable
545
00:24:27,833 --> 00:24:29,299
In his own living room,
546
00:24:29,368 --> 00:24:31,836
Where he shoots him,
sneaks out the back door
547
00:24:31,904 --> 00:24:34,304
And possibly runs
to lauren's parents' house
548
00:24:34,306 --> 00:24:35,974
Less than a mile away,
549
00:24:36,041 --> 00:24:37,975
Where we know lauren later
picks him up
550
00:24:38,043 --> 00:24:39,509
And gives him a ride home.
551
00:24:39,579 --> 00:24:42,112
And you believe
that a handgun and a rifle
552
00:24:42,181 --> 00:24:43,047
Can make that shot.
553
00:24:43,115 --> 00:24:44,448
Either scenario works.
554
00:24:44,517 --> 00:24:46,451
The difference
is today you now believe
555
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:48,919
The shot came from right there
where you're standing
556
00:24:48,921 --> 00:24:50,921
And not over here
at the sliding glass door.
557
00:24:50,923 --> 00:24:52,690
- Usina: Yeah.
- Siegler: All right.
558
00:25:01,934 --> 00:25:04,969
Ooh, that's him right there.
Right there he is.
559
00:25:09,875 --> 00:25:10,608
Hook: How are you?
560
00:25:11,744 --> 00:25:12,343
We're working
on an old cold case,
561
00:25:13,746 --> 00:25:15,545
A homicide that took place
about seven years ago,
562
00:25:15,615 --> 00:25:18,682
So we just wanted to talk to you
and see what you can remember.
563
00:25:18,751 --> 00:25:20,551
He was my cellmate.
564
00:25:20,553 --> 00:25:22,118
Shortly after joe's murder,
565
00:25:22,188 --> 00:25:25,089
Charles "chaz" arrants was
arrested for probation violation
566
00:25:25,157 --> 00:25:26,957
For an unrelated crime,
567
00:25:27,026 --> 00:25:28,426
And he shared a cell
with two other inmates.
568
00:25:30,029 --> 00:25:31,830
Hi, man. We just kind of wanna
talk to you and pick your brain.
569
00:25:31,897 --> 00:25:34,232
Hook: When people get locked up,
they chat.
570
00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:37,168
We wanna see what chaz may have
told them about joe's murder.
571
00:25:37,236 --> 00:25:39,169
So, the three of y'all
were in a cell together.
572
00:25:39,238 --> 00:25:40,504
- Mm-hmm.
- Okay.
573
00:25:40,573 --> 00:25:42,507
What was it
that you can remember?
574
00:25:42,575 --> 00:25:44,942
From what I remember,
I'm pretty sure
575
00:25:44,944 --> 00:25:47,978
He was, like, dating
some older lady
576
00:25:48,047 --> 00:25:50,515
Who was married.
577
00:25:50,583 --> 00:25:55,886
He was basically bragging
about, like, killing the guy.
578
00:25:59,625 --> 00:26:02,059
Put the gun to the back of his
head and blew his head off.
579
00:26:02,127 --> 00:26:04,928
And her getting money
or something
580
00:26:04,997 --> 00:26:06,730
And, like--
you know what I mean?
581
00:26:06,732 --> 00:26:08,832
Something along them lines,
from what I remember.
582
00:26:08,901 --> 00:26:11,401
I guess there was insurance
or something on the husband.
583
00:26:11,470 --> 00:26:13,503
That's why they
wanted the money--to haul ass.
584
00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:14,572
Okay.
585
00:26:15,941 --> 00:26:17,274
Witness: He bought the bullets
in st. Augustine.
586
00:26:17,276 --> 00:26:19,009
- What kind of bullets?
- He said 357.
587
00:26:19,078 --> 00:26:20,477
357. Okay.
588
00:26:20,479 --> 00:26:22,746
Chaz's former cellmates
are not only saying
589
00:26:22,748 --> 00:26:24,616
That he confessed
to shooting joe.
590
00:26:24,683 --> 00:26:26,684
They're telling us
about the bullets he bought
591
00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:29,153
Which are consistent
with the 38-caliber class rounds
592
00:26:29,221 --> 00:26:31,088
That the police
believed were used.
593
00:26:31,157 --> 00:26:32,623
This was not public knowledge,
594
00:26:32,625 --> 00:26:34,491
And the only way
that they could get this detail
595
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,226
Is if it came from chaz.
596
00:26:36,295 --> 00:26:37,761
Witness: I remember him
describing
597
00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:39,763
Getting rid of a gun in a lake.
598
00:26:39,832 --> 00:26:44,034
Usina: And this was
from his mouth to your ears.
599
00:26:44,103 --> 00:26:45,635
Oh, I didn't make
none of this up.
600
00:26:45,705 --> 00:26:49,639
This was, like, freaking me out,
sleeping next to this dude.
601
00:26:49,709 --> 00:26:51,775
Yeah, it really bothered me.
602
00:26:51,844 --> 00:26:54,579
The credibility of inmates
is always questioned,
603
00:26:54,647 --> 00:26:56,581
But the fact that these two
have had no contact
604
00:26:56,649 --> 00:26:58,515
With each other for years
605
00:26:58,584 --> 00:27:01,385
And tell the same story with no
benefits to coming forward
606
00:27:01,453 --> 00:27:02,620
Makes me believe
they're telling the truth.
607
00:27:04,123 --> 00:27:05,657
And if so, this is a piece
of circumstantial evidence
608
00:27:05,724 --> 00:27:07,625
Pointing to chaz's involvement.
609
00:27:07,693 --> 00:27:09,093
It's time we talked to him.
610
00:27:12,331 --> 00:27:14,365
Hook: He's already
been talked to twice.
611
00:27:14,433 --> 00:27:16,533
We should get
to the brass tacks of it.
612
00:27:16,535 --> 00:27:18,969
With everything we've learned,
it's looking more and more
613
00:27:18,971 --> 00:27:21,005
Like charles arrants
is the person
614
00:27:21,073 --> 00:27:23,207
That pulled the trigger
and killed joe wall.
615
00:27:23,209 --> 00:27:26,143
But if we can get
any inconsistencies out of him
616
00:27:26,211 --> 00:27:28,345
Or bolster his connection
with lauren,
617
00:27:28,415 --> 00:27:30,081
That could strengthen
this case even more.
618
00:27:31,483 --> 00:27:33,750
- [dog barking]
- usina: Sheriff's office.
619
00:27:33,819 --> 00:27:35,286
- How you doing?
- Hey, man.
620
00:27:35,354 --> 00:27:38,755
I'm working on a homicide
from back in 2015.
621
00:27:38,824 --> 00:27:41,960
Uh--uh, what's his name? Uh...
622
00:27:42,027 --> 00:27:43,593
- Joe.
- Joe.
623
00:27:43,662 --> 00:27:44,828
- Wall.
- Oh.
624
00:27:44,897 --> 00:27:46,096
It was on the tip
of my tongue.
625
00:27:46,165 --> 00:27:47,966
We can step out
on the back over here.
626
00:27:48,033 --> 00:27:49,434
- Okay.
- All right.
627
00:27:49,501 --> 00:27:53,637
Uh, let's see.
What I remember that night,
628
00:27:53,639 --> 00:27:55,673
We were all sitting
over at our parents' house.
629
00:27:55,675 --> 00:27:57,308
Lauren had left.
630
00:27:57,376 --> 00:27:59,943
I think she went to making
dinner or something like that
631
00:28:00,012 --> 00:28:01,144
And then came back.
632
00:28:01,213 --> 00:28:02,979
And then she took me home.
633
00:28:03,048 --> 00:28:05,048
Man, that's really
all I remember
634
00:28:05,117 --> 00:28:06,516
From the night, honestly.
635
00:28:06,585 --> 00:28:10,121
Okay. What about your
and her relationship?
636
00:28:10,189 --> 00:28:12,256
Nothing ever happened
637
00:28:12,324 --> 00:28:15,625
Until probably like
a year after and everything.
638
00:28:15,694 --> 00:28:18,862
Pretty much from the day
the homicide happened
639
00:28:18,931 --> 00:28:20,932
To several months afterwards,
640
00:28:20,999 --> 00:28:23,067
You were with the family
nonstop, correct?
641
00:28:23,135 --> 00:28:25,002
Not nonstop. I'm sorry.
I'm gonna move this.
642
00:28:25,004 --> 00:28:27,371
- I got the sun in my eyes.
- No, no, no. You're fine.
643
00:28:29,541 --> 00:28:31,841
Charles seems agitated
and can't sit still.
644
00:28:31,911 --> 00:28:34,679
He's swatting bugs
and wiping sweat from his brow.
645
00:28:34,747 --> 00:28:38,416
It really isn't that hot,
and it really isn't that buggy.
646
00:28:38,484 --> 00:28:41,751
After everything went downhill
and all that sh-- happened,
647
00:28:41,821 --> 00:28:44,688
I ended up staying there,
and that was my rent.
648
00:28:44,757 --> 00:28:46,223
It was keeping up the place,
you know,
649
00:28:46,291 --> 00:28:48,225
Paying the electric bill
and keep the grass mowed.
650
00:28:48,227 --> 00:28:50,495
Anything ever
suspicious of lauren?
651
00:28:52,097 --> 00:28:55,032
I mean, she's an unusual person,
652
00:28:55,034 --> 00:28:57,701
But nothing really
rung out to me
653
00:28:57,770 --> 00:29:00,037
That said that she had
anything to do with it.
654
00:29:00,105 --> 00:29:02,840
Whenever she was going
through the stuff
655
00:29:02,908 --> 00:29:04,174
With the life insurance policy,
656
00:29:04,243 --> 00:29:05,976
I guess she settled
for a lot less
657
00:29:05,978 --> 00:29:07,577
Than what
the insurance payout was.
658
00:29:07,646 --> 00:29:09,246
Hook: And did she give you
any of it?
659
00:29:09,315 --> 00:29:11,181
No. Hell, no.
660
00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:14,251
Usina: What about bullets
in st. Augustine?
661
00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:17,587
So, my buddy's dad
had a 357 lever-action.
662
00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:19,390
And whenever I'd go hunting,
that's what I always got to use.
663
00:29:19,458 --> 00:29:20,924
So that's what you bought
the bullets for?
664
00:29:20,993 --> 00:29:22,392
Yes, sir.
665
00:29:22,461 --> 00:29:24,729
Usina: I don't see
your motivation to do this
666
00:29:24,797 --> 00:29:26,730
Unless it's on her behalf.
667
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:30,934
I didn't do this.
I am not involved in this sh--.
668
00:29:31,003 --> 00:29:33,203
Hook: There's a lot of stuff
that points right back to you.
669
00:29:33,272 --> 00:29:34,871
Buying the bullets.
670
00:29:34,940 --> 00:29:36,606
And then people in the jail
671
00:29:36,675 --> 00:29:39,743
That are saying that you're
making comments to them.
672
00:29:39,745 --> 00:29:42,412
Yep. That don't look
too good, does it?
673
00:29:42,414 --> 00:29:44,816
Hook: It doesn't.
And you wanna say it.
674
00:29:44,883 --> 00:29:47,217
I know you wanna say it.
I can see it in you.
675
00:29:47,286 --> 00:29:49,152
I can see
that you wanna tell us.
676
00:29:49,221 --> 00:29:50,287
- What do I--
- the truth.
677
00:29:50,355 --> 00:29:51,888
You wanna tell us
the truth, chaz.
678
00:29:51,957 --> 00:29:54,024
I wanna tell y'all something
that's gonna save my ass.
679
00:29:54,026 --> 00:29:55,426
I'm sitting here searching.
680
00:29:55,494 --> 00:29:57,427
I'm sitting here digging
through my [bleep] brain
681
00:29:57,496 --> 00:29:59,429
Trying to come with something,
and I can't.
682
00:29:59,498 --> 00:30:01,098
- You know the truth.
- Do you think I knew
683
00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:02,899
I was getting myself involved
with whenever I got her--
684
00:30:02,968 --> 00:30:04,701
Do you think that I knew
I was gonna be freaking facing
685
00:30:04,770 --> 00:30:06,503
A murder investigation
and all this sh--?
686
00:30:06,572 --> 00:30:08,438
Her old man was gonna get killed
and all this?
687
00:30:08,507 --> 00:30:10,774
- Usina: No.
- Like--[scoffs]
688
00:30:10,843 --> 00:30:13,777
I was just dirt ----ing broke
and wanted to fish
689
00:30:13,845 --> 00:30:16,980
And talk to a cute girl and
drink beer, and that's it, man.
690
00:30:17,049 --> 00:30:19,649
Usina: What did they tell you
to do with the gun?
691
00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:22,520
Don't know what the [bleep]
you're talking about, dude.
692
00:30:22,588 --> 00:30:24,788
I didn't get rid of no gun.
I didn't kill anybody.
693
00:30:24,857 --> 00:30:26,656
I did not have any involvement
with killing him.
694
00:30:26,725 --> 00:30:28,859
You're not believing
what I'm saying here,
695
00:30:28,861 --> 00:30:30,060
So I really don't feel
like this conversation
696
00:30:30,129 --> 00:30:32,530
Is carrying any more progress.
697
00:30:32,598 --> 00:30:34,798
Charles is answering
all of our questions,
698
00:30:34,867 --> 00:30:37,534
But there's just too many odd
circumstances surrounding him
699
00:30:37,536 --> 00:30:39,470
That he can't explain.
700
00:30:39,538 --> 00:30:41,204
I guess I'll be
seeing you shortly.
701
00:30:41,273 --> 00:30:43,474
Sorry I couldn't ----ing help.
702
00:30:43,542 --> 00:30:45,075
All right.
Take care of yourself, charles.
703
00:30:45,077 --> 00:30:46,343
And from my experience,
704
00:30:46,411 --> 00:30:48,079
The signals
that charles is giving us
705
00:30:48,146 --> 00:30:49,746
Are speaking
louder than his words.
706
00:30:49,748 --> 00:30:51,215
Hook: The mosquitos
aren't bothering us,
707
00:30:51,283 --> 00:30:52,883
But they're bothering him.
708
00:30:52,885 --> 00:30:54,551
Usina: Yeah. They ate him up
because he's pouring sweat.
709
00:30:54,620 --> 00:30:57,220
His arteries are sticking
half an inch out of his neck.
710
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:59,289
- I know.
- Obvious indicators
711
00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:01,158
That people give off
712
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,627
When they're nervous
about something.
713
00:31:12,603 --> 00:31:14,338
Siegler: Why would
you come up here
714
00:31:15,707 --> 00:31:17,073
To bessemer, michigan
all the way from florida?
715
00:31:17,142 --> 00:31:18,843
- A whole family.
- Yeah.
716
00:31:18,911 --> 00:31:20,578
They all come back
to the same address.
717
00:31:20,646 --> 00:31:22,579
Yeah, I think that that's odd.
718
00:31:22,648 --> 00:31:24,680
Siegler: In the months
that followed joe's murder,
719
00:31:24,682 --> 00:31:27,717
Lauren and her family moved to
a small town in upper michigan.
720
00:31:27,786 --> 00:31:30,387
She's been bunkered down there
with them
721
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:32,523
And her boyfriend, nick carter,
ever since.
722
00:31:32,591 --> 00:31:34,325
This is it.
This is their little...
723
00:31:34,393 --> 00:31:37,594
- Those little tan buildings.
- Exactly.
724
00:31:37,663 --> 00:31:41,698
Oh, turn your camera on.
Got this stuff.
725
00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:44,267
Siegler: The day after the
murder, lauren's father, mike,
726
00:31:44,269 --> 00:31:46,703
Hired a lawyer
for the whole family.
727
00:31:46,772 --> 00:31:48,838
Law enforcement
has always believed
728
00:31:48,907 --> 00:31:51,775
That mike knows more
than he's letting on.
729
00:31:51,844 --> 00:31:55,879
Maybe if we catch him off guard,
he'll reveal some clues
730
00:31:55,947 --> 00:31:56,947
That he was involved.
731
00:31:57,016 --> 00:31:58,482
How you doing, mike?
732
00:31:58,550 --> 00:32:00,551
Detective theed with the putnam
county sheriff's office.
733
00:32:00,619 --> 00:32:01,885
Do you mind
talking to us, sir?
734
00:32:01,954 --> 00:32:03,954
- I would love to talk to you.
- Awesome.
735
00:32:04,023 --> 00:32:05,422
Siegler: Take us to Sunday.
736
00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:07,291
Take us to the day
of the murder.
737
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:08,825
Theed: You're all
having dinner together?
738
00:32:08,827 --> 00:32:12,061
I don't recall.
I'm sure we ate something.
739
00:32:12,131 --> 00:32:14,564
'cause we're a family.
I mean, we're tight-knit.
740
00:32:14,566 --> 00:32:16,433
Obviously, we're tight-knit.
741
00:32:16,435 --> 00:32:18,435
- Is chaz part of the family?
- No.
742
00:32:18,503 --> 00:32:20,270
Siegler: How much
was chaz around?
743
00:32:20,272 --> 00:32:22,372
Theed: Did he work for you?
Did he do stuff for you?
744
00:32:22,441 --> 00:32:25,375
He did yardwork,
sh-- I couldn't do.
745
00:32:25,444 --> 00:32:27,712
Did you pay him?
Did you pay him for it?
746
00:32:27,779 --> 00:32:30,180
I kicked him a few bucks,
lunch money.
747
00:32:30,182 --> 00:32:32,182
Yeah, I got him
some cold drinks.
748
00:32:32,184 --> 00:32:35,118
Did he ever spend the night
or just kind of hang out?
749
00:32:35,187 --> 00:32:37,053
During the day thing.
750
00:32:37,122 --> 00:32:38,989
It'd be like once a week
he'd come cut the grass
751
00:32:38,991 --> 00:32:40,857
Or do something--
do something odd for you or no?
752
00:32:40,859 --> 00:32:42,659
Just odds and ends.
He'd stop by.
753
00:32:42,728 --> 00:32:44,594
Siegler: We know from charles
754
00:32:44,596 --> 00:32:46,863
That he lived with the gorskis
after the murder.
755
00:32:46,865 --> 00:32:49,734
I ended up staying there,
and that was my rent.
756
00:32:49,801 --> 00:32:51,601
It was keeping up the place,
you know,
757
00:32:51,670 --> 00:32:53,738
Paying the electric bill
and keep the grass mowed.
758
00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:56,005
So, we know from mike
that he's now trying
759
00:32:56,075 --> 00:32:58,676
To minimize their relationship
with chaz.
760
00:32:58,744 --> 00:33:00,477
Siegler: You understand
why they were looking so hard
761
00:33:00,545 --> 00:33:01,745
At your daughter, right, mike?
762
00:33:01,814 --> 00:33:02,780
Yeah.
763
00:33:04,015 --> 00:33:04,215
Theed: She was
the first one to find him.
764
00:33:05,384 --> 00:33:05,816
And they were having
marital issues.
765
00:33:07,285 --> 00:33:08,218
- Gorski: Yeah. Yeah.
- Siegler: And you knew that.
766
00:33:08,286 --> 00:33:09,819
Well, no. I didn't know it.
767
00:33:09,821 --> 00:33:12,288
Siegler: Wait. You didn't know
that joe and your daughter
768
00:33:12,357 --> 00:33:13,758
Were having marital issues?
769
00:33:13,825 --> 00:33:16,693
No. Whatever their deal is
between the two of them...
770
00:33:16,762 --> 00:33:18,628
- Theed mm-hmm.
- ...I don't know.
771
00:33:18,697 --> 00:33:20,230
Siegler: That's why
lauren's still stuck
772
00:33:20,232 --> 00:33:21,631
In the middle of all of this,
773
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:23,699
So we can just talk to lauren
about all that.
774
00:33:23,701 --> 00:33:26,503
Maybe mike is being evasive
to try and protect his daughter,
775
00:33:26,571 --> 00:33:29,740
Or maybe mike
only knows so much.
776
00:33:29,808 --> 00:33:31,776
I think it's time
we talk to lauren.
777
00:33:31,843 --> 00:33:33,877
Lauren hasn't spoken
to law enforcement
778
00:33:33,946 --> 00:33:36,145
Since the night
her husband was killed.
779
00:33:36,215 --> 00:33:38,515
You didn't start showing emotion
780
00:33:38,583 --> 00:33:41,685
Until we told you
that he was shot.
781
00:33:43,855 --> 00:33:46,523
We know that she had
two potential motives
782
00:33:46,591 --> 00:33:48,258
For wanting
to kill her husband--
783
00:33:48,327 --> 00:33:51,495
Love of nick carter and the
money from the life insurance.
784
00:33:51,563 --> 00:33:53,997
Now it's time
to get some answers.
785
00:33:54,066 --> 00:33:56,100
Theed: So, we're just kind
of revisiting everything.
786
00:33:56,167 --> 00:33:59,904
I know your encounter was
traumatic, so if you can--
787
00:33:59,971 --> 00:34:01,404
I'm already having
a panic attack.
788
00:34:01,473 --> 00:34:03,007
Just take your time.
Just take your time.
789
00:34:03,075 --> 00:34:05,141
We've got all notes
and watch the interviews
790
00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:06,743
And stuff like that.
791
00:34:06,812 --> 00:34:08,678
- Please, no.
- No, no, no. Not pictures.
792
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,747
- Siegler: No pictures.
- Just words. Just words.
793
00:34:10,816 --> 00:34:12,182
- Oh, wow.
- Just words.
794
00:34:13,852 --> 00:34:16,286
Oh, my god. I was not prepared
for this today. Guys, I'm sorry.
795
00:34:16,354 --> 00:34:19,023
Did you find anything else
about him?
796
00:34:19,091 --> 00:34:20,557
Not as of yet.
797
00:34:20,625 --> 00:34:22,559
That's why we're trying
to get it all together.
798
00:34:22,561 --> 00:34:23,993
In the past seven years,
799
00:34:24,062 --> 00:34:26,096
Lauren has never
picked up the phone
800
00:34:26,098 --> 00:34:27,497
To ask a single question
801
00:34:27,566 --> 00:34:29,699
About the progress
of the investigation
802
00:34:29,768 --> 00:34:32,769
Or voice any concern
about losing her husband.
803
00:34:32,838 --> 00:34:35,438
And now she's sounding
way to concerned.
804
00:34:35,507 --> 00:34:37,708
We haven't even been able
to find out yet anything
805
00:34:37,776 --> 00:34:39,375
About the life insurance money.
806
00:34:39,444 --> 00:34:40,977
What happened with that?
807
00:34:41,046 --> 00:34:44,380
Oh. Um...Um...
808
00:34:44,449 --> 00:34:46,384
My chest is, like, pounding.
809
00:34:46,451 --> 00:34:49,854
We got it cut to my parents.
810
00:34:49,921 --> 00:34:51,655
'cause they were
the second beneficiary.
811
00:34:51,723 --> 00:34:52,656
Yeah.
812
00:34:53,925 --> 00:34:55,458
Theed: That's what helped
buy the house?
813
00:34:55,527 --> 00:34:56,794
We bought a house.
814
00:34:56,862 --> 00:34:58,995
So because you weren't
cleared as a suspect,
815
00:34:58,997 --> 00:35:00,864
They gave it to
the contingent beneficiaries--
816
00:35:00,932 --> 00:35:02,398
Your mom and dad.
817
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,067
- Right.
- How much was it, lauren?
818
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:06,603
Oh, dear. I don't remember.
I'm so sorry. I don't remember.
819
00:35:06,605 --> 00:35:08,137
Theed: Was it 600?
820
00:35:08,207 --> 00:35:10,540
No. A bunch of the lawyers
got a whole bunch.
821
00:35:10,609 --> 00:35:13,143
Lauren downplayed
the amount of money
822
00:35:13,145 --> 00:35:15,278
She got
from the life insurance to chaz.
823
00:35:15,347 --> 00:35:17,080
Why would she do that?
824
00:35:17,149 --> 00:35:19,749
So, lauren,
help us understand then,
825
00:35:19,819 --> 00:35:22,420
When you went to your mom's
to pick up the kids,
826
00:35:22,487 --> 00:35:24,354
Who all was at your mom's house?
827
00:35:24,422 --> 00:35:27,758
Thomas and dad.
828
00:35:27,826 --> 00:35:31,262
Oh. Um--[snapping fingers]
charles arrants was there.
829
00:35:31,329 --> 00:35:33,898
He had done a bunch of yardwork
for my parents that day.
830
00:35:33,965 --> 00:35:37,233
I gave him a ride home,
and I picked up beer
831
00:35:37,302 --> 00:35:38,835
Because I was paying him
in beer.
832
00:35:38,904 --> 00:35:40,837
He was just
a yardwork guy, right?
833
00:35:40,906 --> 00:35:43,507
- Yeah.
- So how come after the murder,
834
00:35:43,575 --> 00:35:45,509
He's staying with y'all
at your house?
835
00:35:45,577 --> 00:35:47,711
He wasn't.
836
00:35:47,779 --> 00:35:49,912
- No, he got into your house.
- How did that happen?
837
00:35:49,981 --> 00:35:51,715
- He stays at your house.
- A whole month.
838
00:35:51,717 --> 00:35:54,584
I can't remember. Hold on.
How did that happen?
839
00:35:54,653 --> 00:35:56,486
Theed: Did you have
a relationship with chaz?
840
00:35:58,023 --> 00:36:01,324
Not before everything happened.
841
00:36:01,326 --> 00:36:03,794
It was a long while after.
842
00:36:03,862 --> 00:36:06,863
Y'all moved away within months.
843
00:36:06,932 --> 00:36:08,065
Siegler: Where does nick carter
844
00:36:08,133 --> 00:36:09,599
Think your relationship
with chaz was?
845
00:36:09,668 --> 00:36:13,069
I don't know. I don't--what?
846
00:36:13,071 --> 00:36:15,972
What was your relationship
with nick carter?
847
00:36:16,041 --> 00:36:19,143
On the day that your husband
was shot in your house,
848
00:36:19,211 --> 00:36:21,244
What was your relationship
with nick carter?
849
00:36:21,246 --> 00:36:24,748
I feel like I'm ready
to go call my lawyer.
850
00:36:24,816 --> 00:36:26,949
I mean, if that's what you think
you need to do.
851
00:36:27,018 --> 00:36:29,085
You understand that we have
852
00:36:29,087 --> 00:36:31,555
All your text messages
with nick carter
853
00:36:31,623 --> 00:36:33,223
During the time,
right around the time
854
00:36:33,225 --> 00:36:34,257
Your husband was killed?
855
00:36:34,259 --> 00:36:35,759
Yes. I'm aware.
856
00:36:35,761 --> 00:36:37,428
It looks disgusting.
857
00:36:37,495 --> 00:36:40,697
- That you were telling him--
- it looks disgusting.
858
00:36:40,765 --> 00:36:43,067
Joe and I were working
on a divorce.
859
00:36:43,134 --> 00:36:45,501
And working on a divorce.
860
00:36:45,570 --> 00:36:50,073
And I'm aware
how terrible it looks.
861
00:36:50,142 --> 00:36:52,141
And, lauren, the night that you
were cooking this dinner
862
00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:54,211
For a fun night
with your husband,
863
00:36:54,279 --> 00:36:56,913
You're texting nick carter
that very same night.
864
00:36:56,982 --> 00:36:59,450
- At the same time.
- Two men at the same time.
865
00:36:59,517 --> 00:37:00,917
- Yes, I am.
- And chaz is the one
866
00:37:00,986 --> 00:37:02,919
You took home that day
and bought him beer.
867
00:37:02,988 --> 00:37:04,988
- Yes.
- And chaz has told people
868
00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:07,191
That he killed
his girlfriend's husband
869
00:37:07,259 --> 00:37:08,359
For her for money.
870
00:37:08,426 --> 00:37:09,793
- What?
- Yep.
871
00:37:09,795 --> 00:37:11,528
You know what he's saying.
872
00:37:11,530 --> 00:37:14,197
Oh, what the [bleep].
873
00:37:14,265 --> 00:37:17,133
You know what he's saying.
We know what he's already said.
874
00:37:17,135 --> 00:37:19,068
That's why we're here.
We're here for the truth.
875
00:37:19,137 --> 00:37:20,503
I understand that.
876
00:37:22,073 --> 00:37:24,708
- I need to go call my lawyer.
- Okay.
877
00:37:26,611 --> 00:37:28,544
The way she acted
in the car today
878
00:37:28,613 --> 00:37:31,014
With her
overdramatic histrionics,
879
00:37:31,082 --> 00:37:33,350
I don't think anybody would buy
anything she had to say today.
880
00:37:33,418 --> 00:37:36,486
That fake drama bull[bleep],
nobody's gonna buy that.
881
00:37:36,488 --> 00:37:38,689
- Nobody's gonna buy that.
- No.
882
00:37:47,164 --> 00:37:49,333
- Well, good morning, guys.
- Good morning.
883
00:37:50,068 --> 00:37:50,901
One more day, boys.
884
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:52,736
Siegler:
We've had a productive week,
885
00:37:53,972 --> 00:37:54,671
And we're feeling good
about our case.
886
00:37:55,974 --> 00:37:57,107
Now we need to review
everything we've learned
887
00:37:58,643 --> 00:38:00,309
And determine the level
of involvement of our suspects
888
00:38:00,379 --> 00:38:01,778
In the murder of joe wall.
889
00:38:01,847 --> 00:38:04,047
What do we think
about everything?
890
00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:06,583
There's no way it can be
an unknown random intruder.
891
00:38:06,652 --> 00:38:08,017
Theed: Yeah. I agree.
892
00:38:08,086 --> 00:38:10,586
We haven't found anything
about him using drugs.
893
00:38:10,656 --> 00:38:12,055
Was he selling drugs or...
894
00:38:18,663 --> 00:38:20,530
Home invasion.
Your point of entrance--
895
00:38:20,598 --> 00:38:23,767
You're not gonna make the shot
to the back of the head.
896
00:38:23,769 --> 00:38:26,603
If you shoot from here, you
can't even make the first shot.
897
00:38:26,672 --> 00:38:27,938
It's not the angle.
898
00:38:28,006 --> 00:38:29,939
Okay. With all that
in our heads,
899
00:38:30,008 --> 00:38:31,875
Can everybody agree
that "unknown random intruder"
900
00:38:31,943 --> 00:38:33,609
Is x'd off the board?
901
00:38:33,678 --> 00:38:35,412
- Yes.
- Correct.
902
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,414
Okay, so now we got
the gorski family up here.
903
00:38:38,483 --> 00:38:40,817
Do we think
that they had prior knowledge
904
00:38:40,819 --> 00:38:42,085
And were involved
in the planning
905
00:38:42,153 --> 00:38:43,820
Or accessory after the fact?
906
00:38:43,889 --> 00:38:46,089
- No.
- To me, it looks like,
907
00:38:46,157 --> 00:38:47,291
"that's our daughter.
We wanna protect her."
908
00:38:48,693 --> 00:38:50,827
And there's nothing
that would suggest involvement
909
00:38:50,895 --> 00:38:52,562
Or accessory after the fact.
910
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:54,297
- I'd cross 'em off.
- Jason.
911
00:38:54,299 --> 00:38:55,698
- Yeah. I'd cross 'em off.
- Hook: Yep.
912
00:38:55,767 --> 00:38:57,266
Okay.
913
00:38:57,335 --> 00:39:00,837
So, chaz. What do y'all think
about the other inmates
914
00:39:00,905 --> 00:39:02,972
Now that you met 'em in person?
915
00:39:03,041 --> 00:39:04,174
I think their stories
are truthful.
916
00:39:05,577 --> 00:39:06,443
First of all, they didn't
have to tell the story,
917
00:39:07,579 --> 00:39:08,712
Because they were
already out of jail.
918
00:39:08,780 --> 00:39:12,982
Basically bragging about
killing the guy.
919
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,253
Lauren from the very beginning
920
00:39:17,255 --> 00:39:18,988
Didn't even acknowledge
his existence.
921
00:39:18,990 --> 00:39:21,158
And then she minimized it.
922
00:39:21,226 --> 00:39:24,761
And even seven years later,
they're still lying about chaz.
923
00:39:24,829 --> 00:39:26,663
...Odds and ends.
He'd stopped by...
924
00:39:26,731 --> 00:39:28,998
He was just
a yardwork guy, right?
925
00:39:29,067 --> 00:39:32,568
What's your thinking on
chaz's involvement in this case?
926
00:39:32,637 --> 00:39:35,538
I think there's a lot
of evidence he's your shooter.
927
00:39:35,607 --> 00:39:37,273
What about you, jason?
928
00:39:37,275 --> 00:39:39,475
All the information
in the facts that we've found
929
00:39:39,544 --> 00:39:40,944
Kind of point in that direction.
930
00:39:41,012 --> 00:39:42,579
- Terri?
- So do I.
931
00:39:42,647 --> 00:39:44,447
You wanna tell us
the truth, chaz.
932
00:39:44,449 --> 00:39:46,417
I wanna tell y'all something
that's gonna save my ass.
933
00:39:46,484 --> 00:39:48,084
Okay.
934
00:39:48,086 --> 00:39:50,954
On our left board
dedicated to lauren,
935
00:39:51,022 --> 00:39:52,822
I really feel like
in a murder-for-hire,
936
00:39:52,891 --> 00:39:54,824
The person that's the hirer
937
00:39:54,893 --> 00:39:57,127
Who's the instigator
who wants it done
938
00:39:57,195 --> 00:39:58,828
Is even worse
than the trigger man.
939
00:39:58,897 --> 00:40:01,764
She sets up
this "special romantic dinner"
940
00:40:01,833 --> 00:40:03,566
That takes, like, one hour.
941
00:40:03,635 --> 00:40:05,836
And she's texting her lover
while she's planning the dinner.
942
00:40:05,904 --> 00:40:07,370
- Theed: That is true.
- Hook: Yes.
943
00:40:07,439 --> 00:40:09,372
Well, what about the fact
that she tells the kids
944
00:40:09,441 --> 00:40:11,207
To stay in the car?
945
00:40:11,209 --> 00:40:12,141
She said not to get
out of the vehicle
946
00:40:12,143 --> 00:40:13,509
And just wait for my sister.
947
00:40:13,578 --> 00:40:15,178
She never told you
to stay in the car before?
948
00:40:15,246 --> 00:40:16,413
She's never told me
to stay in the car.
949
00:40:17,849 --> 00:40:18,415
Usina: She's the one
that has access to the house.
950
00:40:19,951 --> 00:40:20,584
- And there's no forced entry.
- Going above and beyond
951
00:40:21,586 --> 00:40:23,118
To try to culminate an alibi.
952
00:40:23,188 --> 00:40:25,255
Lauren's message to joe...
953
00:40:29,060 --> 00:40:31,928
All the text messages
in this window of time,
954
00:40:31,997 --> 00:40:34,130
She just overdoes it.
955
00:40:34,132 --> 00:40:36,666
She was done with joe,
and their marriage was doomed.
956
00:40:36,734 --> 00:40:38,001
- True.
- Yeah.
957
00:40:39,471 --> 00:40:40,870
When you go to your asa,
what are you gonna ask him for?
958
00:40:40,940 --> 00:40:43,272
We're gonna ask
for first-degree homicide,
959
00:40:43,341 --> 00:40:46,108
Warrants on charles arrants
and lauren wall.
960
00:40:46,177 --> 00:40:48,011
Nice.
Jason, you feel good about it?
961
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:50,713
- I do. I feel good.
- Great.
962
00:40:55,353 --> 00:41:01,157
Woman: ♪ honey, won't you
hold my hand? ♪
963
00:41:01,159 --> 00:41:05,595
♪ feels like the walls
are falling down ♪
964
00:41:05,663 --> 00:41:09,499
♪ things are going through
my head ♪
965
00:41:09,568 --> 00:41:13,704
Today we're gonna go talk
to tom and tommy again
966
00:41:13,771 --> 00:41:16,039
And tell them how it went.
You excited?
967
00:41:16,041 --> 00:41:19,375
Yeah. We'll talk with them
and tell them, you know,
968
00:41:19,377 --> 00:41:21,110
Where we sit
with the investigation.
969
00:41:21,179 --> 00:41:23,980
Detective usina set up a meeting
with the state's attorney
970
00:41:23,982 --> 00:41:25,615
To run down the case.
971
00:41:25,684 --> 00:41:28,317
- Welcome back.
- Hello, tommy.
972
00:41:28,386 --> 00:41:31,120
We're excited to update
joe's son and dad
973
00:41:31,122 --> 00:41:32,655
On the progress we've made.
974
00:41:32,724 --> 00:41:36,726
We've went all the way back
through this case top to bottom.
975
00:41:36,728 --> 00:41:40,329
Through our investigation,
we show probable cause
976
00:41:40,398 --> 00:41:44,200
To believe that lauren wall
and charles arrants
977
00:41:44,202 --> 00:41:47,136
Are responsible
for your father's death.
978
00:41:47,138 --> 00:41:50,140
We're gonna seek murder charges
against them.
979
00:41:50,208 --> 00:41:53,009
- Glad to hear that.
- It's extremely good to hear.
980
00:41:53,077 --> 00:41:55,211
What are you thinking
about all this?
981
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,146
I mean, it's not gonna
make me miss him any less,
982
00:41:57,148 --> 00:41:58,614
Anything like that,
983
00:41:58,683 --> 00:42:01,551
But...I have to live with it.
984
00:42:01,553 --> 00:42:04,521
Did you guys see my sister?
How she's doing?
985
00:42:04,589 --> 00:42:07,423
I'm not sure she was home
from school when we were there.
986
00:42:07,492 --> 00:42:09,092
All right.
987
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,362
I'm extremely happy there's hope
for what's gonna happen soon,
988
00:42:13,431 --> 00:42:16,599
And after seven years,
I feel like it's needed.
989
00:42:16,601 --> 00:42:18,901
I really wanted to hear
about my sister.
990
00:42:18,903 --> 00:42:20,903
But, I mean, I grew up with her.
991
00:42:20,905 --> 00:42:24,040
[sniffles] it just--
992
00:42:24,109 --> 00:42:27,043
Having not just one
but two and three...
993
00:42:27,111 --> 00:42:29,713
You know,
you lose everybody at once.
994
00:42:33,184 --> 00:42:34,650
I want you to know
995
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,986
That your dad's friends
all asked how you're doing.
996
00:42:37,056 --> 00:42:38,989
They all still think about you.
997
00:42:39,057 --> 00:42:41,258
- And you're 19, right?
- Yes, ma'am.
998
00:42:41,326 --> 00:42:43,059
So you're about to start
the next phase of your life.
999
00:42:43,061 --> 00:42:44,660
So you need to focus
on yourself.
1000
00:42:44,729 --> 00:42:48,397
Leave it up to him
and not let it consume you
1001
00:42:48,466 --> 00:42:51,668
Or make you sad
or make you try to fix it all,
1002
00:42:51,736 --> 00:42:52,802
'cause you can't.
1003
00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:54,605
They're working their tails off
1004
00:42:54,672 --> 00:42:57,273
To be able to try and make
the system work for you.
1005
00:42:57,342 --> 00:43:00,343
And for you for losing your son.
1006
00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:01,578
Thank you.
1007
00:43:03,214 --> 00:43:03,480
You don't have to say thank you.
We're worried about you. Okay?
1008
00:43:04,015 --> 00:43:05,015
All right.
1009
00:43:06,518 --> 00:43:07,417
Siegler: Tommy's whole world
was ripped away from him.
1010
00:43:08,653 --> 00:43:11,287
He lost his dad.
He lost his little sister.
1011
00:43:11,356 --> 00:43:13,089
He lost his whole family
and life
1012
00:43:13,091 --> 00:43:14,657
As he knew it back then.
1013
00:43:14,659 --> 00:43:16,526
Thank you.
1014
00:43:18,562 --> 00:43:21,298
- Thank you.
- All right. Bye, tommy.
1015
00:43:21,366 --> 00:43:24,967
Hopefully knowing that now
he's finally closer than ever
1016
00:43:24,969 --> 00:43:28,170
To getting justice
will give him some peace
1017
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,873
And maybe the ability
to move on with his life.
1018
00:43:30,875 --> 00:43:32,242
Something's gonna happen.
1019
00:43:32,310 --> 00:43:35,111
- Will I get some closure soon?
- Yeah.
1020
00:43:37,649 --> 00:43:43,286
♪♪♪