1 00:00:14,514 --> 00:00:16,515 Man: 18-year-old anita knutson 2 00:00:17,718 --> 00:00:18,350 Had recently finished her freshman year 3 00:00:19,186 --> 00:00:20,852 At minot state university. 4 00:00:20,921 --> 00:00:22,854 After multiple unanswered calls, 5 00:00:22,923 --> 00:00:25,324 Anita's father visited her apartment 6 00:00:25,393 --> 00:00:27,460 And made a grisly discovery. 7 00:00:27,661 --> 00:00:30,063 Anita had been stabbed to death. 8 00:00:30,264 --> 00:00:34,199 Woman: When we have cases for which there's no clear motive 9 00:00:34,235 --> 00:00:37,002 And that crime is committed against someone 10 00:00:37,171 --> 00:00:39,972 Who seemed adored by all who knew her, 11 00:00:40,041 --> 00:00:42,208 Nothing can be ruled out. 12 00:00:42,409 --> 00:00:44,576 But someone out there holds the key. 13 00:00:49,750 --> 00:00:52,651 [vocalizing] 14 00:00:55,690 --> 00:00:58,423 ♪ the broken and fallen ♪ 15 00:00:58,492 --> 00:01:01,159 ♪ dangled souls been sent to burn ♪ 16 00:01:01,362 --> 00:01:03,562 ♪ nowadays they've been callin' ♪ 17 00:01:03,630 --> 00:01:07,166 ♪ telling me soon gonna be my turn ♪ 18 00:01:07,368 --> 00:01:09,368 Steve, I think this might be our 100th case 19 00:01:09,437 --> 00:01:10,836 That we've worked on. 20 00:01:10,905 --> 00:01:13,505 I think it shows how many cold cases there are, 21 00:01:13,575 --> 00:01:14,374 How many more there are to go. 22 00:01:14,575 --> 00:01:15,641 I know. That's true. 23 00:01:15,976 --> 00:01:17,309 When you look up minot 24 00:01:17,511 --> 00:01:19,511 And you look up unsolved murders, 25 00:01:19,581 --> 00:01:22,981 Anita knutson's case comes to the top of the list. 26 00:01:23,183 --> 00:01:25,650 Everybody knows about it in the whole state. 27 00:01:25,853 --> 00:01:27,853 Sad case. Can't imagine being a father. 28 00:01:27,988 --> 00:01:29,254 You go looking for your daughter. 29 00:01:29,324 --> 00:01:30,355 She hasn't been heard from in a day and a half. 30 00:01:30,390 --> 00:01:31,923 And then you go over 31 00:01:31,993 --> 00:01:34,127 And your worst nightmare is just right in front of you. 32 00:01:34,328 --> 00:01:37,396 Reaching in the window and feeling her, that's horrible. 33 00:01:37,465 --> 00:01:39,397 Steve and I are here in north dakota 34 00:01:39,467 --> 00:01:42,367 To investigate the shocking murder 35 00:01:42,402 --> 00:01:45,670 Of 18-year-old college student anita knutson. 36 00:01:45,873 --> 00:01:50,576 She was a very intelligent, popular, kind young lady 37 00:01:50,778 --> 00:01:53,012 That was adored by all of her friends and her family. 38 00:01:53,148 --> 00:01:55,214 She was going to college here. 39 00:01:55,216 --> 00:01:57,483 Everybody always talks about how friendly she was. 40 00:01:57,684 --> 00:02:00,420 She liked to dance. She liked to read. I like that part. 41 00:02:00,621 --> 00:02:03,622 She's such a righteous, innocent victim. 42 00:02:03,824 --> 00:02:07,626 Anita's magnetic personality and her beauty 43 00:02:07,828 --> 00:02:09,294 Garnered attention from men 44 00:02:09,496 --> 00:02:11,963 And some jealousy from a lot of ladies. 45 00:02:12,165 --> 00:02:13,565 So we're gonna need to investigate 46 00:02:13,635 --> 00:02:16,568 A lot of potential motives and suspects, 47 00:02:16,638 --> 00:02:20,171 Including wanna-be suitors, her current roommate, 48 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,174 And the maintenance man at the apartment complex. 49 00:02:22,509 --> 00:02:25,244 They have had this case analyzed 50 00:02:25,446 --> 00:02:27,713 By different people over the years. 51 00:02:27,781 --> 00:02:30,515 You know, from the crime labs to the fbi to everybody else, 52 00:02:30,717 --> 00:02:31,918 And everybody's come up 53 00:02:32,119 --> 00:02:34,253 With just basically a big zero right now. 54 00:02:34,322 --> 00:02:36,655 Siegler: A lot of podcasters and journalists and reporters 55 00:02:36,724 --> 00:02:37,589 Have looked into it, too. 56 00:02:38,125 --> 00:02:40,792 The good thing is for the very first time, 57 00:02:40,862 --> 00:02:45,464 The police department is letting you and me see all their files, 58 00:02:45,533 --> 00:02:49,068 Which no podcaster or reporter has ever had access to, 59 00:02:49,269 --> 00:02:50,369 'cause they're trusting us 60 00:02:50,404 --> 00:02:51,903 To try and do something to help 'em. 61 00:02:52,106 --> 00:02:53,205 This is one of the hardest ones we've ever looked at. 62 00:02:53,273 --> 00:02:56,041 - It is. - Get your a game on, girl. 63 00:03:08,655 --> 00:03:09,988 - Ooh, good morning. - Good morning. 64 00:03:10,058 --> 00:03:11,557 - I'm kelly. - Welcome to minot. 65 00:03:11,758 --> 00:03:12,958 - Steve spingola. - Chief klug. 66 00:03:13,027 --> 00:03:14,826 - Morning. Carmen. - Nice to meet you. 67 00:03:14,828 --> 00:03:16,495 - Miki. - Hey, miki. Nice to meet you. 68 00:03:16,697 --> 00:03:18,096 Steve spingola. How are you? 69 00:03:18,299 --> 00:03:21,299 This case, you know, it's the one that we've never solved. 70 00:03:21,502 --> 00:03:23,836 It's a teenage girl that lost her life, 71 00:03:24,037 --> 00:03:27,239 And there's just really no clue as to why. 72 00:03:27,441 --> 00:03:30,575 It's a hard case. Y'all did everything perfectly. 73 00:03:30,777 --> 00:03:32,245 You just need some damn luck. 74 00:03:32,446 --> 00:03:33,980 Well, miracle or whatever you wanna call it. 75 00:03:34,181 --> 00:03:35,513 You know what else I liked, though? 76 00:03:35,583 --> 00:03:37,983 You got two girl detectives. Let's go. 77 00:03:38,185 --> 00:03:39,651 Come on back. 78 00:03:39,721 --> 00:03:43,856 I always had this feeling that we had failed the family, 79 00:03:44,057 --> 00:03:46,526 That we had let them down because there hasn't been 80 00:03:46,727 --> 00:03:48,793 An arrest in this case after 15 years. 81 00:03:48,996 --> 00:03:52,464 But we never forgot about it, tried our best, 82 00:03:52,666 --> 00:03:55,133 And hopefully we can find a solution. 83 00:03:55,202 --> 00:03:57,536 So, anita was 18 years old. 84 00:03:57,605 --> 00:03:59,538 She was a college student here in minot. 85 00:03:59,607 --> 00:04:01,673 She had just finished her freshman year. 86 00:04:01,743 --> 00:04:04,009 She was also working two jobs. 87 00:04:04,211 --> 00:04:07,013 She worked at one of the local hotels as a housekeeper, 88 00:04:07,114 --> 00:04:09,748 And then she worked at a clothing store in the mall. 89 00:04:09,950 --> 00:04:13,151 She was adopted when she was a baby. 90 00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:15,220 Originally, she was from california. 91 00:04:15,289 --> 00:04:18,757 The knutson family had moved up here to north dakota 92 00:04:18,826 --> 00:04:21,426 When anita was, I think, around 13. 93 00:04:21,496 --> 00:04:24,496 By all accounts, she was outgoing, bubbly, 94 00:04:24,698 --> 00:04:27,365 And just friendly to everybody. 95 00:04:27,568 --> 00:04:32,872 She was super tiny and pretty, cute, fun, active. 96 00:04:33,073 --> 00:04:35,241 People loved talking to her and hanging out with her. 97 00:04:35,442 --> 00:04:37,542 And all of her friends mentioned that she was popular, 98 00:04:37,612 --> 00:04:39,978 Just fun to be around. 99 00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:42,647 She was one of my best friends, and I feel sorry for anybody 100 00:04:42,849 --> 00:04:44,082 Who didn't get to meet her. 101 00:04:44,152 --> 00:04:45,717 They're missing out on an amazing person. 102 00:04:45,787 --> 00:04:48,053 Always happy. Always talkative. 103 00:04:48,122 --> 00:04:50,356 Always had something good to say. 104 00:04:50,524 --> 00:04:52,657 She cared about everybody. 105 00:04:52,726 --> 00:04:55,060 There's nobody more beautiful on the outside and the inside 106 00:04:55,129 --> 00:04:56,462 Than anita. 107 00:04:56,663 --> 00:04:59,665 Roommate and her were friends from high school, 108 00:04:59,866 --> 00:05:01,199 And they went to college together. 109 00:05:01,401 --> 00:05:02,468 They were living in the dorm together 110 00:05:02,669 --> 00:05:03,803 And decided to get an apartment. 111 00:05:04,004 --> 00:05:05,604 Do you remember what she was studying? 112 00:05:05,673 --> 00:05:07,471 Elementary education. 113 00:05:07,608 --> 00:05:10,341 Look at this picture. Who all do we have in this one? 114 00:05:10,410 --> 00:05:12,811 Her mom and dad and her two siblings-- 115 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,747 Anna and daniel. 116 00:05:14,949 --> 00:05:18,283 Daniel committed suicide in 2013. 117 00:05:18,353 --> 00:05:20,685 I think he had a lot going on. 118 00:05:20,754 --> 00:05:22,020 I'm sure this played a part in it. 119 00:05:22,222 --> 00:05:23,622 Yeah. 120 00:05:23,691 --> 00:05:26,991 What a painful chain reaction of tragedy 121 00:05:27,061 --> 00:05:30,096 This family has had to go through since June of 2007. 122 00:05:30,297 --> 00:05:33,432 These cases leave so many victims. 123 00:05:33,634 --> 00:05:37,303 So, June 4th, anita's mother was not able to get a hold of her. 124 00:05:37,504 --> 00:05:39,504 She wasn't answering her phone. She was worried. 125 00:05:39,574 --> 00:05:42,006 So her dad went up to the apartment. 126 00:05:42,076 --> 00:05:44,644 Tried knocking on the door. There was no answer. 127 00:05:44,845 --> 00:05:48,179 And so he went around to what was her bedroom window 128 00:05:48,249 --> 00:05:51,249 And could see what he believed to be her lying on the bed, 129 00:05:51,318 --> 00:05:52,383 And she was motionless. 130 00:05:52,452 --> 00:05:54,654 A tragic situation for a father. 131 00:05:54,855 --> 00:05:57,656 Anita's murder and the investigation 132 00:05:57,725 --> 00:05:59,190 Are pretty complex. 133 00:05:59,259 --> 00:06:01,326 Hello, guys. Nice to meet you. 134 00:06:01,528 --> 00:06:02,594 Steve spingola. 135 00:06:02,796 --> 00:06:05,130 Fortunately, the first responders 136 00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:07,867 And the initial investigators are still around 137 00:06:08,068 --> 00:06:10,403 And eager to share their insights on the case 138 00:06:10,604 --> 00:06:11,937 And its many suspects. 139 00:06:11,972 --> 00:06:15,206 The call came in at the very end of my shift. 140 00:06:15,275 --> 00:06:18,143 I wasn't very far away. I responded fairly quickly 141 00:06:18,278 --> 00:06:20,246 As the first officer on scene. 142 00:06:21,848 --> 00:06:24,749 I went in and found anita on her bed. 143 00:06:24,818 --> 00:06:27,752 Initially, the first thing I saw is there was blood 144 00:06:27,821 --> 00:06:31,623 On anita's back and some on the bed. 145 00:06:31,825 --> 00:06:34,959 I was new to the investigations division. 146 00:06:34,961 --> 00:06:37,262 I remember noticing her position, 147 00:06:37,330 --> 00:06:40,032 Lying face down near the foot of the bed. 148 00:06:40,233 --> 00:06:42,701 She had a pink robe on. Was nude underneath the robe. 149 00:06:42,904 --> 00:06:44,669 She had one leg sort of underneath her, 150 00:06:44,704 --> 00:06:46,539 And then her right leg was off onto the floor, 151 00:06:46,740 --> 00:06:49,307 And she was slumped forward onto the bed. 152 00:06:49,376 --> 00:06:53,711 We rolled the body, and we photographed it. 153 00:06:53,781 --> 00:06:57,081 I noticed that there was what appeared to be a stab wound. 154 00:06:57,118 --> 00:07:00,852 She had a stab wound in her upper breast area, 155 00:07:01,054 --> 00:07:03,455 And then she had an incised stab wound 156 00:07:03,657 --> 00:07:06,459 That we later learned had lacerated the top of her heart, 157 00:07:06,660 --> 00:07:08,460 Which was the fatal wound. 158 00:07:08,529 --> 00:07:10,328 They did do a sexual assault kit. 159 00:07:10,531 --> 00:07:12,798 There was no indication of sexual assault of any kind. 160 00:07:13,133 --> 00:07:14,734 The apartment was well kept. 161 00:07:14,935 --> 00:07:17,436 Didn't appear to be anything in disarray. 162 00:07:17,637 --> 00:07:20,606 I recall seeing her purse at the side of the bed. 163 00:07:20,808 --> 00:07:22,674 I could see cash in the purse, 164 00:07:22,744 --> 00:07:26,612 Making me think that this doesn't appear to be a robbery. 165 00:07:26,813 --> 00:07:29,280 Anita's roommate stated that she had stayed at the family farm 166 00:07:29,349 --> 00:07:31,149 That entire weekend, and none of the neighbors 167 00:07:31,218 --> 00:07:32,884 Heard a scream or struggle. 168 00:07:33,087 --> 00:07:34,753 With no evidence of a sexual assault 169 00:07:34,921 --> 00:07:36,487 And no signs of a robbery, 170 00:07:36,556 --> 00:07:38,224 You have to wonder, what was her killer's motive? 171 00:07:38,425 --> 00:07:41,359 Who would murder such a sweet, innocent young girl? 172 00:07:41,561 --> 00:07:44,497 We begin to take some items for evidence. 173 00:07:44,698 --> 00:07:50,201 In the quilt that was in the corner of the bed was the knife. 174 00:07:50,270 --> 00:07:52,503 It was a silver lock blade. 175 00:07:52,572 --> 00:07:54,839 When the knife was found, we celebrated. 176 00:07:54,908 --> 00:07:57,176 We thought this is gonna lead to our killer. 177 00:07:57,510 --> 00:07:58,843 Okay. 178 00:07:58,912 --> 00:08:01,346 The investigators ran dna tests on the knife 179 00:08:01,414 --> 00:08:03,114 And on other evidence in the case, 180 00:08:03,184 --> 00:08:06,051 But nothing to date has identified anita's killer. 181 00:08:06,119 --> 00:08:08,253 We've sent it all off for retesting, 182 00:08:08,455 --> 00:08:11,323 Using the most modern advancements in dna technology, 183 00:08:11,491 --> 00:08:12,924 Though the biggest clue in this case 184 00:08:13,126 --> 00:08:15,126 May be the killer's point of entry. 185 00:08:15,196 --> 00:08:18,196 When I got there, the window was open. 186 00:08:18,265 --> 00:08:21,099 There was no screen on the window. 187 00:08:21,301 --> 00:08:23,802 I remember that there were some people standing around outside 188 00:08:23,871 --> 00:08:25,336 Watching what was going on. 189 00:08:25,406 --> 00:08:26,806 We started talking to people. 190 00:08:27,007 --> 00:08:30,041 One guy identified himself as the maintenance guy. 191 00:08:30,110 --> 00:08:32,110 He said earlier in the day 192 00:08:32,246 --> 00:08:34,812 He'd seen a damage screen on the window of her bedroom, 193 00:08:34,814 --> 00:08:36,681 So he tore off the screen. 194 00:08:36,750 --> 00:08:38,416 He said the frame was bent 195 00:08:38,485 --> 00:08:41,420 And then the mesh of the screen was cut. 196 00:08:41,621 --> 00:08:44,355 He took it back to the shop so he could fix it later. 197 00:08:44,425 --> 00:08:46,758 Y'all keep going, but I wanna put those up there. 198 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,226 Marty annell. 199 00:08:48,294 --> 00:08:51,296 The apartment's maintenance man, marty annell, 200 00:08:51,365 --> 00:08:54,499 Turned over anita's window screen to the investigators, 201 00:08:54,569 --> 00:08:59,170 Which, just like he said, had a large l-shape cut in it, 202 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,873 Possibly big enough for her killer to have climbed through 203 00:09:01,875 --> 00:09:03,908 To gain entry into her apartment. 204 00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:06,979 But is it possible he was trying to cover up his own crime? 205 00:09:07,180 --> 00:09:08,647 He was the maintenance person there, 206 00:09:08,716 --> 00:09:10,782 So I don't know that it's necessarily suspicious, 207 00:09:10,984 --> 00:09:12,450 But she was right inside that room. 208 00:09:12,653 --> 00:09:14,720 You wonder why he didn't see her. 209 00:09:14,921 --> 00:09:17,055 I don't know how he could have not seen her. 210 00:09:17,257 --> 00:09:19,257 Okay. What else about marty? 211 00:09:19,427 --> 00:09:21,926 Marty committed suicide. He shot himself. 212 00:09:21,995 --> 00:09:24,262 Siegler: A year after anita's murder, 213 00:09:24,598 --> 00:09:27,766 Marty fatally shot himself in the same workshop 214 00:09:27,834 --> 00:09:29,867 Where he had taken her screen to be fixed. 215 00:09:29,937 --> 00:09:32,537 What's unclear is if his suicide 216 00:09:32,607 --> 00:09:35,473 Had anything to do with guilt over her murder. 217 00:09:35,675 --> 00:09:38,209 So he's the first suspect we need to examine. 218 00:09:38,246 --> 00:09:41,012 And then you also noticed in the bedding her cellphone. 219 00:09:41,115 --> 00:09:45,283 Yes. In the early, early morning hours of Sunday, 220 00:09:45,352 --> 00:09:48,286 She was involved in a text conversation with mike vann. 221 00:09:48,355 --> 00:09:49,955 It was like 4:00, 5:00 in the morning 222 00:09:50,156 --> 00:09:51,889 When the last text was. 223 00:09:51,959 --> 00:09:54,360 Mike vann talked about that he was interested 224 00:09:54,561 --> 00:09:56,561 In perhaps having a dating relationship with anita. 225 00:09:56,630 --> 00:09:59,497 He had been, like, partying that night 226 00:09:59,566 --> 00:10:01,232 And early, early in the morning. 227 00:10:01,302 --> 00:10:04,369 Everybody left to go to mcdonald's except for him. 228 00:10:04,404 --> 00:10:06,971 This sentence from your supplement says, 229 00:10:07,173 --> 00:10:11,109 "vann said that he was aware that anita was by herself 230 00:10:11,178 --> 00:10:14,179 In the apartment in these early morning hours." 231 00:10:14,247 --> 00:10:15,980 - Yes. That would be accurate. - Okay. 232 00:10:16,049 --> 00:10:17,982 The last time we know that anita was alive 233 00:10:18,051 --> 00:10:20,920 Was when she texted michael vann, aka money mike, 234 00:10:21,121 --> 00:10:24,256 Around 4:43 a.M. On Sunday, June 3rd. 235 00:10:24,458 --> 00:10:26,325 He texted back six minutes later, 236 00:10:26,526 --> 00:10:29,194 Although his message went unread. 237 00:10:29,196 --> 00:10:31,796 It's unclear if she was killed during that brief window 238 00:10:31,866 --> 00:10:33,531 Or shortly thereafter. 239 00:10:33,733 --> 00:10:36,467 But we know she didn't show up for work at 9 a.M. That morning. 240 00:10:36,537 --> 00:10:37,869 There's also mention 241 00:10:38,071 --> 00:10:39,937 That mike allegedly told another individual 242 00:10:39,940 --> 00:10:43,675 That he killed anita, making him our second suspect in this case. 243 00:10:43,743 --> 00:10:46,211 - Where is michael vann today? - Deceased. 244 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:48,646 It was like an asthma attack complication thing, right? 245 00:10:48,782 --> 00:10:50,282 - Yeah. - Okay. 246 00:10:50,483 --> 00:10:52,617 So completely unrelated to our case--how he passed away. 247 00:10:52,687 --> 00:10:54,586 - Right. - Okay. 248 00:10:55,889 --> 00:10:57,623 I'm looking at your page 4. 249 00:10:57,824 --> 00:10:59,758 "and nichole gets brought back to the apartment." 250 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:01,559 Is that the beginning that we realize 251 00:11:01,761 --> 00:11:03,761 There's more to this roommate situation than we thought? 252 00:11:03,964 --> 00:11:06,898 That would be when red flags started to go up for me. 253 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:09,567 We walked her through 254 00:11:09,569 --> 00:11:13,104 With the idea or hopes that she might see something 255 00:11:13,307 --> 00:11:17,109 That would give us a clue on what direction to go in this. 256 00:11:17,277 --> 00:11:21,779 She walked pretty much straight to her bedroom door. 257 00:11:21,982 --> 00:11:25,284 Then she gasped as if something was terribly wrong 258 00:11:25,485 --> 00:11:29,053 And then made the comment that her ipod was missing. 259 00:11:29,255 --> 00:11:30,856 I found that to be very strange. 260 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:32,858 In nichole's room we did find 261 00:11:33,059 --> 00:11:35,593 That she had been to some kind of anger management class. 262 00:11:35,662 --> 00:11:37,663 I found a binder-- an anger management course 263 00:11:37,864 --> 00:11:39,097 That she had gone through. 264 00:11:39,299 --> 00:11:41,800 There was a volatile relationship 265 00:11:42,002 --> 00:11:44,402 Between the roommate and anita. 266 00:11:44,604 --> 00:11:47,939 All right. Now let's put up nichole thomas. 267 00:11:47,975 --> 00:11:50,274 Anita's text messages also reveal 268 00:11:50,477 --> 00:11:52,977 That she had gotten into several angry exchanges 269 00:11:53,179 --> 00:11:54,513 With her roommate nichole. 270 00:11:54,714 --> 00:11:56,114 And while nichole told the police 271 00:11:56,182 --> 00:11:58,016 That they had been friends since high school 272 00:11:58,084 --> 00:11:59,584 And they were getting along fine, 273 00:11:59,653 --> 00:12:03,488 The texts show nichole insisting that anita move out. 274 00:12:03,657 --> 00:12:06,825 Nichole's story of that weekend was inconsistent also. 275 00:12:06,894 --> 00:12:08,827 Her story just didn't make a lot of sense. 276 00:12:08,896 --> 00:12:11,095 There's always been a belief that nichole knows more 277 00:12:11,164 --> 00:12:13,364 Than what she's willing to share with us. 278 00:12:13,434 --> 00:12:14,633 Siegler: First nichole said 279 00:12:14,801 --> 00:12:17,001 That she never left her parents' farm 280 00:12:17,036 --> 00:12:19,437 And that she had spent Saturday night watching a movie 281 00:12:19,506 --> 00:12:21,372 With her sister and her mom. 282 00:12:21,442 --> 00:12:23,842 Then when the police learned otherwise, 283 00:12:24,044 --> 00:12:26,677 Nichole admitted that she had actually gone to a bar 284 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,546 And went and watched a movie 285 00:12:28,616 --> 00:12:31,115 With her aunt and her cousin at their house. 286 00:12:31,318 --> 00:12:32,951 And she told one witness 287 00:12:33,286 --> 00:12:35,721 That she actually dropped by her apartment that night 288 00:12:35,922 --> 00:12:37,389 To get some clothes. 289 00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:40,592 The question is, is nichole's memory really that bad, 290 00:12:40,794 --> 00:12:42,193 Or is she hiding something? 291 00:12:42,395 --> 00:12:43,594 Nichole's raised on a farm. 292 00:12:43,663 --> 00:12:45,463 She's got knives. She hunts deer. 293 00:12:45,565 --> 00:12:48,567 Well, she's proud of the fact that she can do what? Hunting. 294 00:12:50,737 --> 00:12:54,005 How does tyler schmaltz first get on y'all's radar? 295 00:12:54,207 --> 00:12:57,809 Tyler's involvement in the case gave me some red flags. 296 00:12:57,877 --> 00:12:59,677 Well, he's actually on scene. 297 00:12:59,879 --> 00:13:01,613 When he saw the commotion 298 00:13:01,815 --> 00:13:05,149 Of police and ambulance being there, he shows up. 299 00:13:05,218 --> 00:13:07,418 Concerned. Wants to know what's going on with her. 300 00:13:07,621 --> 00:13:09,220 So, this is tyler. 301 00:13:09,422 --> 00:13:12,091 Of anybody who is not a family member, 302 00:13:12,292 --> 00:13:14,025 He is the one person 303 00:13:14,227 --> 00:13:16,761 Who has always kind of inserted himself into the investigation, 304 00:13:16,831 --> 00:13:18,529 Trying to stay a part of it. 305 00:13:18,598 --> 00:13:21,566 He created a facebook page in honor of anita. 306 00:13:21,635 --> 00:13:23,268 He had this crush on her. 307 00:13:23,403 --> 00:13:25,703 Siegler: Our fourth suspect is tyler schmaltz. 308 00:13:25,872 --> 00:13:28,239 He and anita had been friends since high school. 309 00:13:28,308 --> 00:13:29,742 But a lot of people thought 310 00:13:29,943 --> 00:13:32,376 That he was also romantically infatuated with her. 311 00:13:32,579 --> 00:13:34,478 He was one of the first people on scene 312 00:13:34,547 --> 00:13:36,981 The day her body was discovered. 313 00:13:37,050 --> 00:13:38,851 Does that mean he was generally concerned, 314 00:13:39,052 --> 00:13:41,720 Or does that mean he was trying to steer the investigation? 315 00:13:41,722 --> 00:13:44,589 Where did tyler live back in '07? 316 00:13:44,791 --> 00:13:46,824 - He's about a block away. - Ooh. 317 00:13:46,893 --> 00:13:49,928 He did report that he had actually seen anita 318 00:13:50,130 --> 00:13:51,630 Leading up to that weekend. 319 00:13:51,698 --> 00:13:55,066 They went on a walk on Thursday, may 31st. 320 00:13:55,069 --> 00:13:57,335 Siegler: We've got a maintenance man who killed himself. 321 00:13:57,404 --> 00:14:01,205 The last person anita texted who knew she was alone. 322 00:14:01,274 --> 00:14:03,675 A roommate she was having a conflict with. 323 00:14:03,876 --> 00:14:05,910 And a not-so-secretive admirer 324 00:14:06,112 --> 00:14:09,080 Who might have taken his infatuation a little too far. 325 00:14:09,082 --> 00:14:11,016 I'm not surprised this case went cold. 326 00:14:11,217 --> 00:14:13,485 You got a hard case, so we're hoping for some luck. 327 00:14:24,763 --> 00:14:27,166 Man: It's been years since anita was killed in her apartment 328 00:14:27,901 --> 00:14:29,700 By an unknown assailant. 329 00:14:29,903 --> 00:14:32,503 While police feel frustration and confusion 330 00:14:32,572 --> 00:14:34,739 About the inability to solve the case, 331 00:14:34,941 --> 00:14:36,441 For the knutson family, 332 00:14:36,642 --> 00:14:38,776 It is often more about the pain and loss 333 00:14:38,878 --> 00:14:40,979 Of their beloved daughter and sister. 334 00:14:41,180 --> 00:14:43,247 Woman: After his sister's murder, 335 00:14:43,317 --> 00:14:46,684 Daniel knutson took his own life. 336 00:14:46,886 --> 00:14:50,054 That fact has made everyone even more intent 337 00:14:50,256 --> 00:14:53,791 On helping the knutson family find the answers. 338 00:14:53,861 --> 00:14:57,261 Woman: ♪ what will it be like ♪ 339 00:14:57,331 --> 00:15:01,933 ♪ when I approach the end? ♪ 340 00:15:02,002 --> 00:15:05,670 ♪ will I lay there with those alone ♪ 341 00:15:05,739 --> 00:15:09,607 ♪ or will my plight have done me in? ♪ 342 00:15:09,809 --> 00:15:13,278 Siegler: We're gonna meet gordon and sharon at karen's house. 343 00:15:13,379 --> 00:15:15,613 And anna's gonna be there, too, I heard, right? 344 00:15:15,815 --> 00:15:18,216 Talbott: I believe so, yeah. That's her younger sister. 345 00:15:18,418 --> 00:15:20,485 They're understanding as far as-- 346 00:15:20,554 --> 00:15:23,355 You know, we're still trying. The case has never been closed. 347 00:15:23,556 --> 00:15:26,024 It's always been open and active, and they know that. 348 00:15:26,225 --> 00:15:27,425 Siegler: It would be nice to tell them some good news 349 00:15:27,493 --> 00:15:28,759 Next week, right? 350 00:15:28,761 --> 00:15:29,628 Talbott: I'm hoping. 351 00:15:32,898 --> 00:15:33,831 - Hi, miss karen. How are you? - Hello. 352 00:15:34,201 --> 00:15:37,435 Oh, this is not good weather for you guys, is it? 353 00:15:37,637 --> 00:15:40,672 For nearly 15 years, anita knutson's family 354 00:15:40,874 --> 00:15:43,508 Has suffered with the grief of her murder, 355 00:15:43,710 --> 00:15:46,611 With the suicide of her brother daniel, 356 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:49,213 And with the frustration of nothing moving forward 357 00:15:49,315 --> 00:15:50,915 With law enforcement. 358 00:15:51,117 --> 00:15:54,185 We're here today to remind them that the minot police department 359 00:15:54,255 --> 00:15:56,521 Has never given up on this case 360 00:15:56,590 --> 00:15:59,323 And to let them know that we're gonna do everything that we can 361 00:15:59,393 --> 00:16:02,126 To try and get them answers and get them justice. 362 00:16:02,195 --> 00:16:04,795 So, sharon, talk to us about anita. 363 00:16:04,997 --> 00:16:06,665 What was she like as a little girl? 364 00:16:06,766 --> 00:16:11,502 As a little girl, very neat and tidy and precise. 365 00:16:11,572 --> 00:16:13,738 Very good artist, writer. 366 00:16:13,940 --> 00:16:15,806 Anna: She's super smart. 367 00:16:16,009 --> 00:16:19,076 I would say that she was very much kind of a little activist. 368 00:16:19,112 --> 00:16:20,945 Really rooting for the underdog 369 00:16:21,147 --> 00:16:23,347 And just, like, kind of taking people under her wing. 370 00:16:23,417 --> 00:16:25,950 And she was very outgoing, really well liked. 371 00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:27,818 And she was going to msu. 372 00:16:28,021 --> 00:16:29,554 Did she have a plan, what she was studying for? 373 00:16:29,756 --> 00:16:32,224 - Yeah. To be a teacher. - Kindergarten teacher. 374 00:16:32,425 --> 00:16:36,594 I just really miss her. It's--it's hard. 375 00:16:36,664 --> 00:16:41,866 Just--like, I go to the mall and she's not there anymore. 376 00:16:44,037 --> 00:16:46,370 And go down in her space of her room 377 00:16:46,573 --> 00:16:48,839 And the bed's not there anymore. 378 00:16:48,908 --> 00:16:52,309 You used to run across stuff in the house 379 00:16:52,512 --> 00:16:55,379 And...[sighs] put it away 380 00:16:55,449 --> 00:16:59,250 Because you know she's not gonna be there to get it. 381 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,788 Her dad and her had planned on going fishing for the summer, 382 00:17:03,857 --> 00:17:05,656 And then this happened. 383 00:17:05,725 --> 00:17:07,726 He got rid of all that stuff. 384 00:17:07,927 --> 00:17:09,594 We just-- 385 00:17:09,796 --> 00:17:12,464 She's really missed. [sniffles] 386 00:17:14,867 --> 00:17:16,534 I called her Sunday on her phone, 387 00:17:16,736 --> 00:17:19,003 And she never answered, so I thought she's at work. 388 00:17:19,072 --> 00:17:22,607 So Monday I called her and no answer. 389 00:17:22,676 --> 00:17:25,209 I called him, and I said, "go by anita's 390 00:17:25,411 --> 00:17:26,477 And see if she's okay." 391 00:17:26,547 --> 00:17:28,079 - Gordon: And I went. - And he went. 392 00:17:28,148 --> 00:17:30,681 And he found her car. 393 00:17:30,750 --> 00:17:32,283 Knocked on the door. Nobody answered. 394 00:17:32,353 --> 00:17:35,753 So I went over by that window and looked in, 395 00:17:35,955 --> 00:17:37,455 And I seen that she was there. 396 00:17:37,523 --> 00:17:40,625 - Siegler: And it was open? - Yes. The window was open. 397 00:17:40,694 --> 00:17:44,428 If you stood at that window, how deep into the room? 398 00:17:44,631 --> 00:17:46,163 Well, I touched her. 399 00:17:46,232 --> 00:17:47,698 - You touched her. - Yeah. 400 00:17:47,767 --> 00:17:50,501 Siegler: Gordon confirmed that he was able 401 00:17:50,571 --> 00:17:52,903 To touch anita's body through the window. 402 00:17:52,972 --> 00:17:54,772 That's a pretty horrific thought. 403 00:17:54,975 --> 00:17:56,474 But it also makes 404 00:17:56,543 --> 00:17:58,909 The maintenance man marty annell's claim 405 00:17:59,112 --> 00:18:02,647 That he never saw her body that much stranger. 406 00:18:02,716 --> 00:18:05,916 When did y'all first become aware that nichole and anita 407 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:07,985 Weren't getting along so great as roommates? 408 00:18:08,055 --> 00:18:10,588 Oh, just a couple of months after they were in there. 409 00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:13,157 Anita would be upset 410 00:18:13,227 --> 00:18:18,028 Because nichole would come home and she'd bring guys with her. 411 00:18:18,065 --> 00:18:20,999 And then she would leave and the guys would still be there. 412 00:18:21,201 --> 00:18:22,734 And I said to her one time-- I said, 413 00:18:22,935 --> 00:18:24,401 "why does that room stink?" 414 00:18:24,604 --> 00:18:27,204 "mom, she never cleans. She never changes her bed." 415 00:18:27,274 --> 00:18:29,674 My last conversation with anita was... 416 00:18:29,876 --> 00:18:32,409 I said, "are you going to find a new apartment?" 417 00:18:32,612 --> 00:18:34,679 And she said, "no. I'm going to stick it out." 418 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,147 - Oh, she did? - And that was 419 00:18:36,216 --> 00:18:38,083 Like two weeks before she died. 420 00:18:38,284 --> 00:18:41,085 Siegler: If anita was able to keep nichole as a roommate, 421 00:18:41,255 --> 00:18:43,654 That makes you wonder how bad the relationship really was 422 00:18:43,857 --> 00:18:45,422 Between the two of 'em. 423 00:18:45,491 --> 00:18:47,426 So we're gonna have to track down all of their old friends 424 00:18:47,627 --> 00:18:48,760 To get to the bottom of that. 425 00:18:48,961 --> 00:18:51,529 What do y'all know about tyler schmaltz? 426 00:18:51,598 --> 00:18:53,764 Anna: Well, he's on facebook all the time. 427 00:18:53,966 --> 00:18:55,966 I felt like it was really odd. 428 00:18:56,002 --> 00:18:59,370 He was the first one she dated. And the prom. 429 00:18:59,572 --> 00:19:01,105 Anna: They went to prom together. 430 00:19:01,307 --> 00:19:03,040 He loved--he loved her. 431 00:19:03,109 --> 00:19:05,309 I mean, I do think it's genuine, though. 432 00:19:05,511 --> 00:19:09,313 I really do think that he cares really deeply about my sister. 433 00:19:09,515 --> 00:19:12,918 Anita's family doesn't seem to be very suspicious of tyler. 434 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,752 Maybe that's a good sign that he's not involved. 435 00:19:15,822 --> 00:19:17,555 Or maybe he's been successful 436 00:19:17,757 --> 00:19:20,124 Directing the investigation away from himself. 437 00:19:20,193 --> 00:19:22,927 Here's what we're hoping-- that in the last 15 years 438 00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:25,396 Someone has always known some little piece 439 00:19:25,466 --> 00:19:26,464 That they haven't wanted to tell. 440 00:19:26,532 --> 00:19:28,266 That is absolutely the case. 441 00:19:28,401 --> 00:19:31,535 Like, I feel like somebody is just, like, holding tight 442 00:19:31,605 --> 00:19:33,204 To some piece of information. 443 00:19:33,407 --> 00:19:36,507 It's why I put the tribute in the paper every single year, 444 00:19:36,709 --> 00:19:39,878 Just hoping that somebody will come forward. 445 00:19:40,079 --> 00:19:42,280 Just want her to never be forgotten... 446 00:19:42,481 --> 00:19:45,083 Sharon: Right. Well, she's not forgotten. 447 00:19:45,285 --> 00:19:47,619 ...And that someone will pay attention. 448 00:19:47,820 --> 00:19:51,622 It hit everybody hard, 449 00:19:51,691 --> 00:19:55,626 But I truly feel that daniel suffered the most, 450 00:19:55,695 --> 00:19:59,563 Because we lost him, too, because of this. 451 00:19:59,633 --> 00:20:02,434 It was not easy for him. 452 00:20:02,635 --> 00:20:07,271 It isn't easy for any of us, but especially for him. 453 00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:10,474 So it's hard to think that we lost two 454 00:20:10,544 --> 00:20:13,144 Because of one action. 455 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:29,660 Spingola: We have four suspects 456 00:20:29,961 --> 00:20:33,331 In the 2007 murder of 18-year-old anita knutson. 457 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,366 And the one with the clearest possible motive 458 00:20:36,402 --> 00:20:37,468 Is actually her roommate, nichole thomas, 459 00:20:38,638 --> 00:20:39,670 Who she had been feuding with prior to the murder. 460 00:20:40,706 --> 00:20:41,839 Woman: Anita's mom, sharon, reported 461 00:20:43,075 --> 00:20:46,010 That the roommate had sent anita threatening texts 462 00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:48,746 And that anita was scared of her. 463 00:20:48,948 --> 00:20:50,482 [line ringing] 464 00:20:50,683 --> 00:20:52,617 This is detective talbott with the minot police department 465 00:20:52,819 --> 00:20:54,819 Regarding anita knutson's case. 466 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:56,420 Spingola: Anita and nichole had actually known each other 467 00:20:56,622 --> 00:20:57,955 Since high school. 468 00:20:58,157 --> 00:20:59,089 We're hoping that by interviewing 469 00:20:59,625 --> 00:21:01,425 Some of their old friends, they can help us fill in 470 00:21:01,627 --> 00:21:03,293 What the fallout was between the two girls. 471 00:21:03,496 --> 00:21:06,231 Tell me a little about anita from your perspective. 472 00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:15,874 Do you know anything about her living situation at all? 473 00:21:36,128 --> 00:21:38,229 Okay. Walk me through why you think that? 474 00:21:45,137 --> 00:21:48,339 Would you say that nikki could have been jealous of anita? 475 00:21:59,385 --> 00:22:00,218 Okay. 476 00:23:10,222 --> 00:23:11,422 Spingola: Nichole's friends think 477 00:23:11,625 --> 00:23:13,357 She seemed capable of committing murder 478 00:23:13,425 --> 00:23:15,926 And was acting strangely after the death of anita. 479 00:23:16,128 --> 00:23:17,962 And while everybody reacts differently to trauma, 480 00:23:18,130 --> 00:23:19,897 This is the second time we're actually hearing 481 00:23:19,965 --> 00:23:21,498 That nichole seemed more concerned 482 00:23:21,568 --> 00:23:24,668 About her missing ipod than she did her murdered roommate. 483 00:23:29,175 --> 00:23:30,507 They were warming up, something they... 484 00:23:30,576 --> 00:23:31,843 [line ringing] 485 00:23:32,044 --> 00:23:33,978 It seems like a lot of people 486 00:23:34,180 --> 00:23:37,047 Knew about anita's roommate problems with nichole. 487 00:23:37,249 --> 00:23:39,917 But if nichole was also jealous of anita, 488 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,518 That makes you wonder 489 00:23:41,588 --> 00:23:44,656 If it might have added emotional fuel to this fire. 490 00:23:44,857 --> 00:23:47,057 Jealousy can be a powerful motive. 491 00:23:47,126 --> 00:23:49,193 - Woman: Hello. - Hi. It's detective talbott 492 00:23:49,261 --> 00:23:50,527 With the minot police department. How are you? 493 00:23:50,596 --> 00:23:52,529 - Good. How are you? - Not too bad. 494 00:23:52,598 --> 00:23:54,132 See, I have a couple of questions 495 00:23:54,333 --> 00:23:55,532 Regarding a case that I'm looking into. 496 00:23:55,602 --> 00:23:57,267 We've tracked down another schoolmate 497 00:23:57,336 --> 00:23:59,303 Of anita and nichole who might know more. 498 00:24:06,545 --> 00:24:07,545 Do you know nikki at all? 499 00:24:30,569 --> 00:24:32,036 Is there anybody else that comes to mind 500 00:24:32,238 --> 00:24:33,371 That could've done this to anita? 501 00:24:43,916 --> 00:24:46,283 What do you think about him being involved 502 00:24:46,485 --> 00:24:50,020 With the facebook page and the billboards and stuff like that? 503 00:24:55,595 --> 00:24:57,060 Siegler: We've considered that jealousy 504 00:24:57,062 --> 00:24:59,029 Might have played a part in anita's murder. 505 00:24:59,132 --> 00:25:01,632 But maybe it wasn't just nichole who was jealous. 506 00:25:04,403 --> 00:25:05,303 Right. 507 00:25:20,485 --> 00:25:22,119 Man: Another person police were eager to question 508 00:25:22,487 --> 00:25:24,121 Was tyler schmaltz. 509 00:25:25,224 --> 00:25:25,656 Woman: Tyler actually saw law enforcement 510 00:25:26,425 --> 00:25:27,324 At anita's apartment, 511 00:25:28,694 --> 00:25:29,259 And he went over there to see what was going on. 512 00:25:30,429 --> 00:25:31,429 Was this somebody who committed a crime, 513 00:25:32,765 --> 00:25:34,265 Trying to keep a close eye on the investigation? 514 00:25:35,635 --> 00:25:37,367 Was he jealous that she didn't return the feelings? 515 00:25:37,569 --> 00:25:39,971 So, we're on our way to see mr. Alex schmaltz 516 00:25:40,172 --> 00:25:42,506 Who was actually the principal of the school there, right? 517 00:25:42,575 --> 00:25:45,610 Yes. He is tyler schmaltz's brother. 518 00:25:45,811 --> 00:25:48,211 And then I think alex may have been living 519 00:25:48,414 --> 00:25:49,479 With tyler at the time. 520 00:25:49,549 --> 00:25:51,182 According to some folks, 521 00:25:51,383 --> 00:25:53,784 Tyler schmaltz was actually very infatuated with anita. 522 00:25:53,853 --> 00:25:56,119 And after the murder, seemed to insert himself 523 00:25:56,189 --> 00:25:58,923 Into the police investigation, which is a big red flag. 524 00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:00,991 The question is, was it just a harmless crush, 525 00:26:01,060 --> 00:26:02,392 Or was it something more? 526 00:26:02,595 --> 00:26:03,860 - I'm alex schmaltz. - Carmen. 527 00:26:03,996 --> 00:26:04,895 - Nice to meet you. - Steve. 528 00:26:04,898 --> 00:26:05,962 Nice to meet you, steve. 529 00:26:06,065 --> 00:26:07,431 At the time, tyler lived 530 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:09,133 Within walking distance of anita's apartment 531 00:26:09,202 --> 00:26:10,767 With his brother alex. 532 00:26:10,970 --> 00:26:12,870 We're wondering what alex might be willing to tell us 533 00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:15,405 About the relationship between tyler and anita 534 00:26:15,607 --> 00:26:17,407 And tyler's whereabouts the morning of the murder. 535 00:26:17,609 --> 00:26:19,543 Were you older are younger than them? 536 00:26:19,611 --> 00:26:21,613 I am two years younger than tyler 537 00:26:21,814 --> 00:26:23,147 And a year younger than anita was. 538 00:26:23,216 --> 00:26:24,214 - Okay. - Yeah. 539 00:26:24,416 --> 00:26:26,351 So, did you know her in school? 540 00:26:26,552 --> 00:26:28,752 I knew of her in school. We ran in different circles. 541 00:26:28,954 --> 00:26:31,688 I knew anita's brother daniel more so than I knew anita 542 00:26:31,758 --> 00:26:33,423 Just because he played football with me. 543 00:26:33,493 --> 00:26:36,426 So, did daniel ever talk to you about what he thought happened? 544 00:26:36,629 --> 00:26:39,497 He never really did. He kept to himself pretty well. 545 00:26:39,699 --> 00:26:42,567 There was only one time that we were talking in a group. 546 00:26:42,768 --> 00:26:44,301 There was a group of us. 547 00:26:44,503 --> 00:26:46,236 And he got really upset about things, 548 00:26:46,305 --> 00:26:48,505 But he never really would say who he thought. 549 00:26:48,575 --> 00:26:50,307 He was just upset about the entire situation. 550 00:26:50,509 --> 00:26:52,109 How about nichole? Did you know her? 551 00:26:52,177 --> 00:26:54,978 I did know nichole. I knew anita more 552 00:26:54,980 --> 00:26:56,513 Just because she hung out with tyler. 553 00:26:56,583 --> 00:26:58,916 And what was their relationship--anita and tyler? 554 00:26:59,251 --> 00:27:02,319 My brother was kind of the quiet one, shy one, the tech nerd, 555 00:27:02,521 --> 00:27:04,254 And anita was one of those girls 556 00:27:04,456 --> 00:27:05,922 That was just kind of nice to everybody, 557 00:27:05,991 --> 00:27:07,858 And she would always hang out with them, talk to 'em. 558 00:27:07,928 --> 00:27:11,395 I moved up to-- I graduated in 2007, 559 00:27:11,463 --> 00:27:13,997 And then I moved up into the apartments with tyler 560 00:27:14,067 --> 00:27:17,034 Probably about two weeks before the incident occurred. 561 00:27:17,103 --> 00:27:19,003 Asham: And now it's just, like, a couple of buildings up. 562 00:27:19,205 --> 00:27:20,270 Like two or three buildings over. 563 00:27:20,339 --> 00:27:22,673 It was the same complex. Yeah. Yeah. 564 00:27:22,742 --> 00:27:24,942 So, did you know anything about what happened that weekend? 565 00:27:25,010 --> 00:27:27,878 The only thing that I remember that far back 566 00:27:27,948 --> 00:27:29,613 Was I left that morning for work. 567 00:27:29,681 --> 00:27:31,416 I came back, and there was police officers, 568 00:27:31,617 --> 00:27:34,418 And my brother was talking to police officers. 569 00:27:34,486 --> 00:27:36,087 What about on, like, Saturday, Sunday? 570 00:27:36,288 --> 00:27:37,888 Were you around then? 571 00:27:37,958 --> 00:27:39,756 We were around. 572 00:27:39,826 --> 00:27:42,358 Thinking back, I'm sure I was in and out. 573 00:27:42,395 --> 00:27:44,494 Anything else, I really don't have. 574 00:27:44,697 --> 00:27:47,164 I really don't remember anything from that weekend. 575 00:27:47,366 --> 00:27:49,232 Tyler ever go and hang out at their apartment? 576 00:27:49,302 --> 00:27:52,169 I don't think so. I don't recall of any times. 577 00:27:52,237 --> 00:27:54,438 Like I said, it was only two weeks that I was there. 578 00:27:54,773 --> 00:27:57,975 Tyler was very introverted. You know, he was a big gamer. 579 00:27:58,176 --> 00:28:00,644 So he had his gaming systems and stuff there in the apartment. 580 00:28:00,713 --> 00:28:02,914 He didn't really like to go out much. 581 00:28:03,115 --> 00:28:05,382 Alex has nothing incriminating to say about his brother, 582 00:28:05,452 --> 00:28:06,984 Which is not surprising. 583 00:28:07,052 --> 00:28:09,386 But he also wasn't supporting him with an alibi. 584 00:28:09,456 --> 00:28:12,256 You'd think if alex was covering for tyler, he would. 585 00:28:12,458 --> 00:28:15,092 So if tyler is keeping a dark secret about anita's murder, 586 00:28:15,161 --> 00:28:17,328 It appears his brother has no idea about it at all. 587 00:28:17,529 --> 00:28:19,129 I wish I could be more help, 588 00:28:19,199 --> 00:28:22,400 But it's--it's-it's a tough one for sure. 589 00:28:29,141 --> 00:28:31,142 Spingola: It's time we talk to tyler schmaltz. 590 00:28:31,344 --> 00:28:33,243 We know he was one of the first people on the scene. 591 00:28:33,312 --> 00:28:35,311 Came across strange to investigators 592 00:28:35,348 --> 00:28:37,081 And has maintained a facebook page 593 00:28:37,283 --> 00:28:39,216 Dedicated to anita throughout the years. 594 00:28:39,218 --> 00:28:42,152 What we don't know is whether his alleged crush on anita 595 00:28:42,221 --> 00:28:44,621 Possibly led to her murder. 596 00:28:44,691 --> 00:28:46,690 You went to high school in velva, right? 597 00:28:46,759 --> 00:28:48,992 - Yes. - And that's how you met anita? 598 00:28:49,061 --> 00:28:50,294 Yeah. We went to prom junior year. 599 00:28:50,496 --> 00:28:52,163 Okay. So, how did you guys get to be friends? 600 00:28:52,364 --> 00:28:54,098 We just met at school. We had classes together. 601 00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:55,566 - Yeah. - We just started talking. 602 00:28:55,701 --> 00:28:57,301 She sat in front of me in math class. 603 00:28:57,370 --> 00:28:59,436 Okay. Did you date at all? 604 00:28:59,505 --> 00:29:01,871 We did not date. No. I wanted to, but we never did. 605 00:29:01,908 --> 00:29:04,308 Okay. Did you ask her out and she shoot you down? 606 00:29:04,510 --> 00:29:05,976 I never asked her out. Never got that courage. 607 00:29:06,178 --> 00:29:07,711 We were close friends, though. 608 00:29:08,046 --> 00:29:10,381 Tyler was quick to respond and a very fast talker. 609 00:29:10,415 --> 00:29:13,049 He comes across as a bit socially awkward, 610 00:29:13,252 --> 00:29:15,486 But it doesn't seem like he's holding back on any information. 611 00:29:15,688 --> 00:29:17,187 Can you tell me what you remember 612 00:29:17,257 --> 00:29:19,556 About that particular weekend then when she died? 613 00:29:19,758 --> 00:29:21,191 All the parents were looking for her, 614 00:29:21,227 --> 00:29:22,193 And they called my dad, trying to find out 615 00:29:22,394 --> 00:29:23,861 When the last time I saw her. 616 00:29:24,062 --> 00:29:25,496 And I said, "I haven't talked to her in a week." 617 00:29:25,698 --> 00:29:27,130 Her dad called my dad again. 618 00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:28,832 Said, "we found her and she's dead." 619 00:29:28,934 --> 00:29:30,267 Then my mom came and told me what happened. 620 00:29:30,469 --> 00:29:31,601 Then we all raced back to the apartment. 621 00:29:31,803 --> 00:29:33,403 I met her out there. 622 00:29:33,472 --> 00:29:35,173 There were friends in my apartment crying and stuff. 623 00:29:35,374 --> 00:29:39,343 Do you remember where you were Saturday night, 624 00:29:39,411 --> 00:29:41,478 Sunday morning that weekend? 625 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,180 At my apartment sleeping probably or playing video games. 626 00:29:43,249 --> 00:29:44,882 One of the two. 627 00:29:45,051 --> 00:29:46,283 We play video games to about 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning 628 00:29:46,485 --> 00:29:47,617 And then we go to bed. 629 00:29:47,819 --> 00:29:49,385 Would your brother had been home, too? 630 00:29:49,389 --> 00:29:50,420 Yeah. He'd have been sleeping, though. He was working, 631 00:29:50,622 --> 00:29:52,055 So he goes to bed early. 632 00:29:52,157 --> 00:29:53,757 Were you in love with anita? 633 00:29:53,926 --> 00:29:55,193 Yes. 634 00:29:55,394 --> 00:29:57,395 Yeah, I'll admit that. Yeah. 635 00:29:57,596 --> 00:30:00,463 I know you know that-- I'm sure you've heard people 636 00:30:00,666 --> 00:30:02,299 Throw your name out there, right? 637 00:30:02,501 --> 00:30:04,235 Why? I mean, what do you think about that 638 00:30:04,436 --> 00:30:05,703 When they throw you out there? 639 00:30:05,905 --> 00:30:08,438 I just act weird. I'm shy and quiet, and... 640 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,974 It's not that I'm boring. I just don't like interviews. 641 00:30:11,043 --> 00:30:12,910 So I'm always nervous. 642 00:30:13,111 --> 00:30:14,245 How does that make you feel, though? 643 00:30:14,446 --> 00:30:15,779 How does that make you, like... 644 00:30:15,847 --> 00:30:17,181 I'm used to it. It's been constant. 645 00:30:17,383 --> 00:30:19,182 Read a message on facebook saying I did it 646 00:30:19,251 --> 00:30:20,984 Or I should kill myself or... 647 00:30:21,186 --> 00:30:22,386 - That sucks. - Yeah. 648 00:30:22,588 --> 00:30:23,653 That's terrible. 649 00:30:23,855 --> 00:30:25,523 It's whatever. I'm used to it. 650 00:30:28,527 --> 00:30:30,460 So, you would never do anything like that, though? 651 00:30:30,529 --> 00:30:31,863 - Not me, no. - No. 652 00:30:32,064 --> 00:30:33,463 Spingola: Sounds like tyler's more of a victim 653 00:30:33,665 --> 00:30:35,198 Than a suspect in this case. 654 00:30:35,401 --> 00:30:37,267 To be completely thorough, we have to wait for the lab 655 00:30:37,337 --> 00:30:39,203 To analyze all of our dna evidence 656 00:30:39,405 --> 00:30:40,938 Before we can rule him out as a suspect. 657 00:30:41,273 --> 00:30:42,873 But I don't think he's our killer. 658 00:30:42,942 --> 00:30:45,809 Let's me ask--since you lived in the same apartment complex-- 659 00:30:45,877 --> 00:30:47,211 - Yeah. - That maintenance guy. 660 00:30:50,749 --> 00:30:52,150 Didn't know anything about him? 661 00:30:52,351 --> 00:30:54,152 Not until after the murder. And when he killed himself, 662 00:30:54,353 --> 00:30:55,085 That's when I found out about him. 663 00:30:55,854 --> 00:30:56,653 So you never heard rumors around 664 00:30:57,823 --> 00:30:59,889 That he was, like, a creeper or anything like that? 665 00:31:00,092 --> 00:31:01,392 Okay. 666 00:31:01,594 --> 00:31:03,693 If there's anything you can help think of 667 00:31:03,762 --> 00:31:05,862 That would help lead us in the right direction... 668 00:31:06,065 --> 00:31:07,431 I said everything I could think of. 669 00:31:07,499 --> 00:31:09,032 - I don't know. It's just weird. - It is. 670 00:31:09,101 --> 00:31:11,302 Doesn't make any sense, 'cause no one hated her. 671 00:31:11,504 --> 00:31:13,003 All her friends loved her. She didn't have any enemies. 672 00:31:13,205 --> 00:31:14,771 Just outgoing, fun, sociable. 673 00:31:14,841 --> 00:31:17,540 Just always had a smile on her face. 674 00:31:17,743 --> 00:31:20,377 Doesn't make any sense that anyone would do that to her. 675 00:31:20,579 --> 00:31:22,312 It just doesn't make any sense. 676 00:31:28,653 --> 00:31:30,921 Man: The next person who has garnered a lot of suspicion 677 00:31:31,723 --> 00:31:32,756 Would be the maintenance man 678 00:31:33,993 --> 00:31:34,491 Who originally discovered the cut screen. 679 00:31:35,794 --> 00:31:36,961 The timing of his death and the reasons behind it 680 00:31:37,996 --> 00:31:38,962 Helped fuel the fire of suspicion 681 00:31:39,731 --> 00:31:40,998 That he may have been involved. 682 00:31:42,401 --> 00:31:43,935 Woman: There are many times when those who commit crimes 683 00:31:44,136 --> 00:31:47,003 Go on to later commit suicide. 684 00:31:47,072 --> 00:31:50,840 But we don't know if that's the reason. 685 00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:53,076 Spingola: Unlike our other three suspects, 686 00:31:53,145 --> 00:31:55,213 We don't know if our maintenance man, 687 00:31:55,414 --> 00:31:58,148 Marty annell, even knew anita knutson before her murder. 688 00:31:58,218 --> 00:32:00,284 But he's right in the middle of this investigation. 689 00:32:00,485 --> 00:32:02,552 He strangely didn't notice her dead body in her bedroom 690 00:32:02,754 --> 00:32:04,020 When he collected the window screen 691 00:32:04,223 --> 00:32:06,858 And mysteriously committed suicide a year later, 692 00:32:07,059 --> 00:32:08,425 Leading some to believe that he did it 693 00:32:08,627 --> 00:32:09,961 Over the guilt of killing anita. 694 00:32:10,162 --> 00:32:12,762 He's marty annell's best friend. 695 00:32:12,965 --> 00:32:14,431 I didn't see any reports 696 00:32:14,634 --> 00:32:17,301 Which he was actually interviewed or not. 697 00:32:17,503 --> 00:32:18,636 If there's anyone who could tell us 698 00:32:18,837 --> 00:32:20,303 About why marty committed suicide, 699 00:32:20,373 --> 00:32:22,240 It's his best friend who spoke with him 700 00:32:22,441 --> 00:32:24,908 Just hours before he killed himself. 701 00:32:24,977 --> 00:32:27,611 Marty and I, we were best friends for... 702 00:32:27,679 --> 00:32:29,646 Woman: Go lay down. 703 00:32:29,716 --> 00:32:31,314 ...45 years. 704 00:32:31,517 --> 00:32:33,050 Talked to each other every day. 705 00:32:33,251 --> 00:32:35,452 See each other every day. 706 00:32:35,654 --> 00:32:39,789 When he started changing is when that girl got killed. 707 00:32:39,858 --> 00:32:41,993 Talbott: What do you mean by "changing"? 708 00:32:42,194 --> 00:32:46,663 Uh, he was, you know, worried about his job. 709 00:32:46,865 --> 00:32:48,798 He was worried about his relationship, 710 00:32:48,934 --> 00:32:51,234 And just..."oh, come on." 711 00:32:51,303 --> 00:32:54,671 Before he was never really worried about anything. 712 00:32:54,873 --> 00:32:57,208 I mean, even when he got into trouble, 713 00:32:57,409 --> 00:33:00,477 You know, for dui's or weed, 714 00:33:00,679 --> 00:33:04,481 He was never really worried about anything until... 715 00:33:04,683 --> 00:33:06,083 Talbott: Until then. 716 00:33:06,284 --> 00:33:08,618 Did he ever talk about anita and her roommate at all? 717 00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:10,887 No. No. I mean, 718 00:33:10,957 --> 00:33:15,692 The first time that I ever knew that she lived there was... 719 00:33:15,762 --> 00:33:17,427 When we got involved? 720 00:33:17,497 --> 00:33:20,031 When you guys got involved and she was found dead. 721 00:33:20,232 --> 00:33:23,200 You know, you guys were questioning him 722 00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:25,835 And everybody else about this case. 723 00:33:26,037 --> 00:33:28,037 You know, he came out and said, 724 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,907 "yeah, I changed the screen and everything." 725 00:33:30,977 --> 00:33:33,444 And they came and asked me about it. 726 00:33:33,645 --> 00:33:35,913 He called me on new year's eve. 727 00:33:36,115 --> 00:33:38,416 We talked for six hours. 728 00:33:38,617 --> 00:33:40,917 He said that something was wrong. 729 00:33:40,987 --> 00:33:43,386 In the conversation, he said, "I did something" 730 00:33:43,589 --> 00:33:45,656 Or "something happened." 731 00:33:45,857 --> 00:33:47,857 He never alluded as to what? 732 00:33:48,059 --> 00:33:50,193 And I tried to figure out 733 00:33:50,395 --> 00:33:52,328 What, you know--you know, what was going on. 734 00:33:52,397 --> 00:33:53,597 Talbott: Mm-hmm. 735 00:33:53,665 --> 00:33:56,666 Witness: But he never said. 736 00:33:56,735 --> 00:33:59,069 ...Called me in the morning... 737 00:34:00,672 --> 00:34:05,408 And hear he had committed suicide in the garage. 738 00:34:05,611 --> 00:34:06,744 Up at the apartment complex, right? 739 00:34:06,945 --> 00:34:09,145 Up at the apartment complex. 740 00:34:09,214 --> 00:34:13,016 And I thought, "what the hell is going--why? What did you do?" 741 00:34:13,185 --> 00:34:15,952 To me, he would never do that. 742 00:34:16,054 --> 00:34:17,554 Spingola: It's still unclear 743 00:34:17,756 --> 00:34:19,622 If marty had anything to do with anita's murder. 744 00:34:19,692 --> 00:34:21,891 Unfortunately, all his friend has to offer 745 00:34:22,093 --> 00:34:23,893 Is the gut feeling that marty did it. 746 00:34:23,962 --> 00:34:27,097 I really did wonder if he did it. 747 00:34:27,299 --> 00:34:28,898 Something happened. 748 00:34:29,101 --> 00:34:31,635 Something really, really happened. 749 00:34:31,836 --> 00:34:33,837 I wish I knew what happened. 750 00:34:33,905 --> 00:34:36,206 I don't know. 751 00:34:46,985 --> 00:34:48,886 Siegler: While we're making progress, 752 00:34:49,221 --> 00:34:52,223 We still have four possible suspects on our board. 753 00:34:52,424 --> 00:34:54,524 - Welcome to north dakota. - Oh, thank you. 754 00:34:54,726 --> 00:34:57,327 - Dr. Pinneri, you know steve. - Yeah. Hi. 755 00:34:57,496 --> 00:34:59,195 Dr. Kathy pinneri has joined us 756 00:34:59,232 --> 00:35:01,698 To help us examine anita's wounds. 757 00:35:01,767 --> 00:35:03,233 The question is, 758 00:35:03,268 --> 00:35:05,402 Is there anything about her injuries 759 00:35:05,470 --> 00:35:07,604 That would help us understand the relationship 760 00:35:07,806 --> 00:35:09,472 Between anita and her killer? 761 00:35:09,508 --> 00:35:12,475 So, she was found face down on her bed wearing a bathrobe 762 00:35:12,545 --> 00:35:14,744 Around 5 p.M. 763 00:35:14,946 --> 00:35:16,547 She was still in rigor mortis, 764 00:35:16,748 --> 00:35:18,682 But there was a little collection of fly eggs 765 00:35:18,884 --> 00:35:20,083 On her chest, 766 00:35:20,285 --> 00:35:23,219 Which does imply that there was time enough 767 00:35:23,288 --> 00:35:26,089 For insects to come in through the window. 768 00:35:26,291 --> 00:35:29,159 She has these two stab wounds-- 769 00:35:29,328 --> 00:35:30,760 One on the center of the chest 770 00:35:30,829 --> 00:35:33,930 And one off to the right and up a little bit. 771 00:35:34,132 --> 00:35:35,666 So, we have one coming in like this 772 00:35:35,867 --> 00:35:37,234 And one coming in like that. 773 00:35:37,435 --> 00:35:39,769 Do you think she was moving when she was stabbed? 774 00:35:39,838 --> 00:35:42,173 The person's on top. Was she moving from this one to this? 775 00:35:42,374 --> 00:35:43,841 I don't think she was struggling. 776 00:35:43,942 --> 00:35:46,577 This is two quick stabs, 777 00:35:46,778 --> 00:35:50,113 And the perpetrator is out of the picture. 778 00:35:50,181 --> 00:35:52,115 There's certainly are no defensive wounds. 779 00:35:52,183 --> 00:35:54,317 And it doesn't look like a crime of passion. 780 00:35:54,519 --> 00:35:57,787 Those tend to have way more stab wounds. 781 00:35:57,856 --> 00:36:00,191 This isn't that. 782 00:36:00,392 --> 00:36:03,459 Siegler: Our suspects, michael vann and tyler schmaltz, 783 00:36:03,662 --> 00:36:05,495 Had crushes on anita. 784 00:36:05,697 --> 00:36:07,297 If they had been rejected, 785 00:36:07,365 --> 00:36:10,468 You would expect it to be more like a crime of passion, 786 00:36:10,669 --> 00:36:12,402 Committed in the heat of the moment. 787 00:36:12,472 --> 00:36:14,304 More like overkill. 788 00:36:14,306 --> 00:36:16,340 Nichole thomas, on the other hand, 789 00:36:16,374 --> 00:36:18,708 Had been feuding with anita for months, 790 00:36:18,911 --> 00:36:21,110 And she was an avid hunter. 791 00:36:21,147 --> 00:36:25,081 Is it possible that anita's murder was more thought out? 792 00:36:25,151 --> 00:36:27,917 It's just two stab wounds very close. 793 00:36:27,987 --> 00:36:30,087 Obviously, you have to be for a stab wound, 794 00:36:30,289 --> 00:36:34,023 So it would imply some sort of familiarity-- 795 00:36:34,092 --> 00:36:36,227 If she was awake and knew the person was coming in. 796 00:36:50,006 --> 00:36:52,175 Man: Police have gathered dna samples 797 00:36:53,245 --> 00:36:53,743 From almost everyone they spoke with. 798 00:36:54,579 --> 00:36:55,179 They've never gotten a match. 799 00:36:55,847 --> 00:36:56,813 Woman: At this point, 800 00:36:58,049 --> 00:37:01,852 Law enforcement are not ruling out anyone. 801 00:37:02,053 --> 00:37:04,353 So, we sent the knife, the window screen, 802 00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:06,724 And the window and the fingernail scrapings. 803 00:37:06,925 --> 00:37:07,957 Ooh, maybe you'll get lucky. 804 00:37:08,027 --> 00:37:09,993 We've got a lot of theories 805 00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:12,662 About who might have killed anita knutson. 806 00:37:12,731 --> 00:37:15,064 What we need, though, is more evidence. 807 00:37:15,268 --> 00:37:16,733 Man: Hello. 808 00:37:16,801 --> 00:37:18,802 Hey, derek, it's detective asham calling from minot p.D. 809 00:37:19,004 --> 00:37:20,737 We understand you'd wanna share with us 810 00:37:20,939 --> 00:37:22,338 What you got from the dna testing. 811 00:37:22,408 --> 00:37:24,207 Siegler: Hopefully, our dna results 812 00:37:24,409 --> 00:37:27,143 Can connect one of our four suspects to the crime. 813 00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:56,173 Okay. 814 00:38:12,190 --> 00:38:15,325 As it sits, we have nothing to compare other than anita's. 815 00:38:15,394 --> 00:38:16,926 Siegler: We tried, 816 00:38:16,995 --> 00:38:19,395 But just like the last time the evidence was tested, 817 00:38:19,464 --> 00:38:21,865 The dna results are pretty useless. 818 00:38:22,066 --> 00:38:23,534 If we're gonna figure out who killed anita, 819 00:38:23,735 --> 00:38:25,201 We're gonna have to do it another way. 820 00:38:25,271 --> 00:38:28,271 The good news is, we all have enough confidence now 821 00:38:28,339 --> 00:38:30,406 To eliminate one of the suspects. 822 00:38:30,476 --> 00:38:33,609 Let's talk about tyler schmaltz. 823 00:38:33,645 --> 00:38:37,414 Asham: He came off as genuinely wanting to be helpful. 824 00:38:37,616 --> 00:38:40,316 I do see and he admits it freely himself 825 00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:42,085 That he's kind of a weird kid. 826 00:38:42,087 --> 00:38:44,688 We asked tyler, "were you in love with her?" "oh, yeah." 827 00:38:44,890 --> 00:38:46,155 - Did you date at all? - We did not date, no. 828 00:38:46,357 --> 00:38:47,757 I wanted to, but we never did. 829 00:38:47,827 --> 00:38:50,326 Okay. Did you ask her out and she shoot you down? 830 00:38:50,529 --> 00:38:51,962 I never asked her out. Never got that courage. 831 00:38:52,297 --> 00:38:53,564 We were close friends, though. 832 00:38:53,765 --> 00:38:56,632 Back in high school, he was not the popular crowd. 833 00:38:56,701 --> 00:39:01,904 And he's so beholden to anita for being nice to him. 834 00:39:01,974 --> 00:39:03,907 Taking him to the prom. It's almost kind of sad. 835 00:39:03,975 --> 00:39:07,110 Kind of his way of repaying the favor to her 836 00:39:07,179 --> 00:39:09,446 For being the one who was nice to him. 837 00:39:09,647 --> 00:39:10,980 Tyler loved anita. 838 00:39:11,149 --> 00:39:12,982 He's always been cooperative. 839 00:39:13,184 --> 00:39:15,251 He gave his dna. 840 00:39:15,321 --> 00:39:17,921 He's been nothing but passionate about remembering her 841 00:39:18,123 --> 00:39:20,389 And raising awareness for her case, 842 00:39:20,592 --> 00:39:23,260 So much so that people got the wrong idea about him. 843 00:39:23,395 --> 00:39:25,261 And those billboards around town, 844 00:39:25,331 --> 00:39:27,196 He's the one who raised money for them, 845 00:39:27,399 --> 00:39:30,199 Soliciting tips with information to go to the police with. 846 00:39:30,401 --> 00:39:33,070 Nobody would willingly try to solve a murder 847 00:39:33,271 --> 00:39:35,038 If they're the one who did it. 848 00:39:35,106 --> 00:39:37,940 Tyler's never been trying to control this investigation. 849 00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:40,343 He has always just been trying to help. 850 00:39:40,545 --> 00:39:42,413 Does anybody have any hesitation 851 00:39:42,614 --> 00:39:45,081 Taking tyler schmaltz off this suspect board? 852 00:39:45,283 --> 00:39:46,883 - No. - Everybody's good. 853 00:39:46,952 --> 00:39:50,754 In my mind, tyler has been a victim all these years, too. 854 00:39:50,956 --> 00:39:53,022 It feels good to clear him. 855 00:39:53,358 --> 00:39:55,992 And that leaves us with three suspects. 856 00:40:02,233 --> 00:40:04,301 So, we're on our way to see nick skelly. 857 00:40:04,503 --> 00:40:06,903 And he knew money mike-- mike vann. 858 00:40:07,105 --> 00:40:09,373 I don't know. I've read this where mike has said 859 00:40:09,574 --> 00:40:12,174 He was gonna kill somebody or he might have killed anita. 860 00:40:12,277 --> 00:40:15,112 I'm not sure exactly what the story is with michael vann here, 861 00:40:15,313 --> 00:40:17,614 Who we can't talk to now because he's dead. 862 00:40:30,328 --> 00:40:33,130 So, I'm gonna ask you one question. 863 00:40:33,331 --> 00:40:35,064 Are you responsible for her death? 864 00:40:35,266 --> 00:40:38,000 Did you kill her? 865 00:40:38,070 --> 00:40:40,403 Since her dna was a bust, it's clear witnesses 866 00:40:40,605 --> 00:40:42,206 Will be the key to solving anita's murder. 867 00:40:42,407 --> 00:40:43,674 [knocking] 868 00:40:43,875 --> 00:40:45,008 We tracked down a friend 869 00:40:45,210 --> 00:40:47,076 That michael vann allegedly confessed to. 870 00:40:47,145 --> 00:40:48,477 - Hi. - Hi. Can I help you? 871 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,213 - Are you nick? - Yeah. 872 00:40:50,414 --> 00:40:52,081 If that's true, that could be the huge break 873 00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:53,016 We need in this case. 874 00:40:53,218 --> 00:40:54,417 I have a couple of questions 875 00:40:54,485 --> 00:40:57,020 Regarding anita knutson's case. 876 00:40:57,222 --> 00:40:58,554 Oh, [bleep]. 877 00:40:58,624 --> 00:41:00,090 [laughs] it's been a minute, I know. 878 00:41:00,291 --> 00:41:03,559 But you had mentioned being friends with michael vann. 879 00:41:03,628 --> 00:41:07,030 Okay. Yeah. Hmm. 880 00:41:07,232 --> 00:41:09,166 There was a lot of bull[bleep] rumors going on 881 00:41:09,367 --> 00:41:12,168 About that he had something to do with it. 882 00:41:12,370 --> 00:41:15,572 He had attractions for anita. 883 00:41:15,707 --> 00:41:18,207 He was saying that him and her were gonna hook up 884 00:41:18,277 --> 00:41:19,842 And start dating and this and that. 885 00:41:20,045 --> 00:41:21,511 Did you ever hear him say he killed anita 886 00:41:21,580 --> 00:41:23,112 Or he was thinking about killing somebody? 887 00:41:23,181 --> 00:41:24,613 No. 888 00:41:24,650 --> 00:41:26,716 Do you think he's capable of killing people? 889 00:41:26,786 --> 00:41:29,585 Mm. That's hard to say. 890 00:41:29,654 --> 00:41:31,454 When we went to the viewing at the funeral 891 00:41:31,523 --> 00:41:33,990 And stuff like that, he seemed pretty upset about it. 892 00:41:34,192 --> 00:41:38,461 But anybody could pull that [bleep] off. 893 00:41:38,529 --> 00:41:40,798 Every cold case has rumors involved with it, 894 00:41:40,999 --> 00:41:42,399 And it seems that michael's confession 895 00:41:42,601 --> 00:41:44,167 Is nothing more than that. 896 00:41:44,235 --> 00:41:45,869 And nick can't say one way or another 897 00:41:46,071 --> 00:41:47,738 Whether michael was involved. 898 00:41:47,939 --> 00:41:50,473 Do you have anything else that you think that would help 899 00:41:50,675 --> 00:41:53,076 Or rumors that you heard? 900 00:41:53,278 --> 00:41:56,345 Well, this girl that we went to school with was her roommate. 901 00:41:56,414 --> 00:41:58,614 I think her name was, like, nichole thomas 902 00:41:58,684 --> 00:42:00,349 Or something like that. 903 00:42:00,552 --> 00:42:02,753 There were some people that I was talking with 904 00:42:02,854 --> 00:42:04,954 That went to a party with her, and she got drunk, 905 00:42:04,956 --> 00:42:07,223 And somebody was blaming her for it. 906 00:42:07,425 --> 00:42:10,159 And she, [bleep]-- she was drunk. 907 00:42:10,228 --> 00:42:12,094 She just all of a sudden out of nowhere, 908 00:42:12,164 --> 00:42:14,163 "oh, yeah, I [bleep] did it. [bleep] you. 909 00:42:14,232 --> 00:42:15,631 You guys are gonna blame this [bleep]-- 910 00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:17,633 I might as well admit it." 911 00:42:17,702 --> 00:42:20,836 Just like, okay. You know, I'm not gonna jump to conclusions. 912 00:42:20,905 --> 00:42:22,838 - Were you at that party? - No, I wasn't. 913 00:42:22,907 --> 00:42:24,441 No? Do you know who was? 914 00:42:24,643 --> 00:42:28,044 I can't even remember. No. I have no idea. 915 00:42:28,246 --> 00:42:29,679 Talbott: Okay. 916 00:42:30,014 --> 00:42:31,213 Spingola: Now we're hearing that it was nichole thomas 917 00:42:31,317 --> 00:42:32,715 Who confessed at a party. 918 00:42:32,818 --> 00:42:34,517 It could just be another rumor. 919 00:42:34,585 --> 00:42:36,285 But if there was a party full of people, 920 00:42:36,354 --> 00:42:38,322 That's a whole new world of witnesses 921 00:42:38,523 --> 00:42:40,190 Who might provide us with more information 922 00:42:40,391 --> 00:42:42,125 About nichole being anita's killer. 923 00:42:43,194 --> 00:42:45,461 We'll have to do some research and see if we can find the names 924 00:42:45,531 --> 00:42:47,396 Of a couple of people that were there. 925 00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:49,932 - At the party? - And heard her say it as well. 926 00:42:50,001 --> 00:42:52,735 These people that talk about her being the same kind of drunk 927 00:42:52,937 --> 00:42:55,138 And saying the same thing and they're credible, 928 00:42:55,306 --> 00:42:56,940 Golly, that'd be nice. 929 00:42:57,041 --> 00:43:00,210 We still got three suspects and a lot to figure out, 930 00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:02,445 But this could be the break we've been looking for. 931 00:43:08,820 --> 00:43:10,419 Siegler: Next time on "cold justice"... 932 00:43:10,488 --> 00:43:11,554 Oh, my gosh. 933 00:43:11,623 --> 00:43:15,324 There's gonna be one...Here. 934 00:43:15,394 --> 00:43:18,561 Comes across. And then with the fatal right between the breasts. 935 00:43:18,763 --> 00:43:21,230 This was anita's text messages. Mike responds. 936 00:43:21,432 --> 00:43:22,898 "you don't say anything." 937 00:43:22,967 --> 00:43:24,834 I think that sums up their relationship right there. 938 00:43:24,969 --> 00:43:26,202 I still think all killers talk. 939 00:43:26,272 --> 00:43:28,404 It's just a matter of who they talk to. 940 00:43:28,473 --> 00:43:30,573 Your name was brought up for being at a party. 941 00:43:30,775 --> 00:43:32,743 It was a very volatile situation 942 00:43:32,944 --> 00:43:34,377 That I thought was gonna explode. 943 00:43:34,712 --> 00:43:37,180 The biggest reason for his suicide was... 944 00:43:37,382 --> 00:43:38,615 Damn. 945 00:43:38,783 --> 00:43:40,317 I didn't say any of this stuff. 946 00:43:40,518 --> 00:43:44,020 I want the person found, too, 'cause I want my life back.