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- ♪♪ MTV ♪♪
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- We got Motherwolff and
David.
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20 years, they've been talking.
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- This is someone that's
miles and miles away.
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And it's like if
I needed something,
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I can just pick up
the phone and call him.
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He's my constant.
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- Hey David, its Nev here.
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I'm ready to take you
down there,
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whether he
calls us back or not.
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- No matter what happens,
we're here with you.
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- Come on, David.
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- There's a light on, but...
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oh, Jesus.
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Hello.
- Oh, my God.
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- All right, well, sadly, we
don't have Kamie on this ep.
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But we have a very
cool guest co-host,
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and he's just inside that door.
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Great guy, great actor...
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Dylan Sprayberry.
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Dylan.
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- Oh, my God, Nev.
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Nice to meet you.
- Hey, good to see you.
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Dylan is literally Superman,
or at least
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he was when he played young
Clark Kent in "Man of Steel."
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And his career has only flown
to new heights from there.
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He achieved full-blown
teen heartthrob status
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when he starred in MTV's
"Teen Wolf."
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And he's now reprising
that role
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in the upcoming
"Teen Wolf" movie.
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What's up, buddy?
- Come on in.
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- All right,
so welcome to the show.
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- Thank you.
I'm excited for this.
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- Nice to have you back on MTV.
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- It's been a long time.
- Right, yeah, that's right.
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Also, I have to say, this is
a real special moment for me
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because it might be
one of the only times
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someone on the show has had
as much or more chest hair
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than I do.
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I should have been
on "Teen Wolf."
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- You could have
been on "Teen Wolf."
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They wouldn't have had
to do too many effects.
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- Right.
- Oh, God.
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- Oh, come on.
- Dude.
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- Anyway, all right.
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So let's get into it.
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- Let's do it.
- Got an email here.
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Subject of the email is
"20 years of longing."
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And it's from Motherwolff, PA.
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Which I assume is Pennsylvania.
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But is Motherwolff
a place or a person?
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- That's my mom.
- Oh, my God.
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Wait a second.
- That's my mother.
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- Is there a mother
character in "Teen Wolf"?
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Okay.
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Hello, my name is June.
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But I go by Motherwolff.
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I'm a 53-year-old
freelance dog sitter.
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I have five kids
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and nine grandkids.
- Damn!
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- And I've been in an on again,
off again online relationship
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with a man named David.
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- ♪♪ I know we would manage
if we just tried ♪♪
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- He's in Orlando, and
I'm in York, Pennsylvania.
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I met him 20 years ago
in an AOL chat room
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where he went as Warlock.
- Oh, wow.
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- ♪♪ We can write
our own story ♪♪
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♪♪ We can make our own glory ♪♪
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- He was comforting and kind.
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But when I first heard his
voice, it drove me wild.
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It's deep and husky.
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- Oh!
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- It's still gives me
chills down my spine.
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Over the years, even when we
began to become more distant
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and contact wouldn't happen
for months at a time,
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he would send a message
and we would catch up
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with how our lives were going.
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- ♪♪ I've got a friend
in you...♪♪
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- He became so much a part of
my daughter's and my life
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even from far away.
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He was there for me
through many hard times
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and my evolution from
solitary witch to satanist.
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Wow, this is fascinating.
- This is juicy.
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- He always seemed to feel me
and hear me as I would speak
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his name on the night winds.
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[voice whispers] David...
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Over these 20 years,
there was constantly
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talk of meeting in person.
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For one reason or another,
it hasn't happened.
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Now more than ever, I want him.
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I need him.
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Could you please
finally help me
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put a solid face and presence
to someone I've cared
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deeply about for so long?
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Sincerely,
June AKA Motherwolff."
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- That's heavy, man.
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- Wow, 20 years.
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All right.
Well, we gotta call this woman.
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I'm fascinated.
Motherwolff.
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[line ringing]
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- Yes, hi.
Is this Motherwolff?
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- Hey, it's Nev.
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- And for this episode,
we have a guest co-host.
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- And his name is Dylan.
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- Hi there, miss.
Nice to meet you.
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- How did you get
the name Motherwolff?
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- Wow. I'd rather talk
about it in person.
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Do you have time
right now if we come
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meet you out in Pennsylvania?
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- All right, we're gonna fly
out and we'll get into it.
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- Bye-bye now.
Can't wait.
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- All right.
Take care.
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Wow. This is crazy.
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- ♪♪ Better be a dream
with a different entry ♪♪
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♪♪ Clean off my finger
like an ice cream ♪♪
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♪♪ The sun was shining...♪♪
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- Ah, Pennsylvania.
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- So Motherwolff and David.
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- So-called David.
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- Talking for 20 years.
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- I hope it's really him.
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- Who really is him?
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- Here we go.
- All right.
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[doorbell rings]
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- Hi.
- Hey, what's up?
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- Hello.
How youse all doing?
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- Good. How are you?
- Nice to meet you.
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- Good to meet you.
- Nev, obviously. Dylan.
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- Hi, Dylan.
Nice to meet you.
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- Good to meet you also.
Come on in.
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- So should we just
call you Motherwolff?
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- Yeah.
- Thanks for having us.
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- I'm so very curious.
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- Uh-huh.
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- You used to be a...
- In a coven?
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- Well, yeah.
You were an independent witch.
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Wait, what'd you call it?
- Oh, yes, 30 plus years,
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I was conservative Baptist.
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- Got it.
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- And then in my
early 30s, I dedicated
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into solitary witchcraft.
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- Can you give me
some background
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as to what it means when
you say practice witchcraft?
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- With witchcraft,
we look at it
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as we manifest our desires
by speaking it on the wind
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and with our works.
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- Can you give me an example?
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What if any spells
have you attempted
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to use in regards to David?
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Can you inspire him to...
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- Yes, we actually...it's
called speaking on the wind.
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We had went without
talking for a while,
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and my mom had passed away.
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And I had no way to reach him.
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He wasn't answering
his messages.
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And I put the window up.
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And I sat there,
and I called out to him.
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I said, "I need you."
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And we do this little thing
where it's like a little howl.
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- Like a howl, like,
kind of like a wolf?
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- Yeah.
It's just a real light...
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[howls] Aoooh...
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And he called me 30 minutes
later, he said, "I heard you."
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- He said that?
- That's wild.
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- He was like,
I felt like I knew...
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- He said, "I heard you."
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- And is he versed in
any of this kind of stuff
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that you do as well?
- Okay.
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- In fact, when we had met...
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it was a chat room
called Virtual Magic.
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I saw his name and it
caught my attention.
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His name was Warlock.
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And it just...
I don't know something
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about it clicked to me.
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I just kept watching him.
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And we got to talking, and
it just took off from there.
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And we would just
talk and talk.
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And then next thing I knew,
he had my phone number,
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and we were talking
on the phone.
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And we were talking all the
time, hours on the phone.
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- You mentioned in your email
how much you love his voice.
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- Yes. His voice was always
kind of smooth, very calming.
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And I would relax instantly.
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Now the only place I hear
from him is through messenger.
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But it was just really nice.
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And he was just
always right there.
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He spent a lot of time
talking to us, me and my kids.
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We became very, very close.
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It was so surprising
that, you know,
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this is someone that's
miles and miles away.
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And it's like if...if I needed
something, I could just pick
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up the phone and call him.
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If my girls had
a bad time at school,
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he'd talk to 'em about it.
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We talked every day.
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But he would disappear
for months at a time
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or I wouldn't hear from him.
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But he always seemed to feel
when I was having a crisis.
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You know, he'd be...
be gone for like three,
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00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:09,723
four, maybe five months,
I wouldn't hear anything.
201
00:08:09,790 --> 00:08:11,859
And then something
would be going
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00:08:11,925 --> 00:08:13,560
on that just had me
a little stressed out
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and I'd hear from.
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During some of the hardest
times in my life, he's there.
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- And now, over the
course of the 20 years,
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I imagine you both had
other relationships.
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00:08:21,268 --> 00:08:23,871
- Yes.
I've had several relationships.
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They all knew about him.
209
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I said, "I have
a man that I will
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not stop talking to though.
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It's not negotiable."
212
00:08:30,477 --> 00:08:32,279
And they said, "Well, what
if I give you an ultimatum?"
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00:08:32,346 --> 00:08:34,715
I said, "Well, you can put
your shoes right back on."
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That's where it was at.
215
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He's my constant.
Constantly the one there.
216
00:08:39,119 --> 00:08:41,755
- So wait, so what do
you know about this guy?
217
00:08:41,822 --> 00:08:43,790
Has he always lived in Orlando?
218
00:08:43,857 --> 00:08:45,292
- As far as I know, yeah.
219
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I don't know the
street number anymore.
220
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But I know he used to
live on Stonebridge Lane
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'cause I sent him a
couple packages there.
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And he confirmed the packages,
told me what was in them.
223
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- Have you ever met
or talked to anybody
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that's ever met him in person?
225
00:08:58,739 --> 00:09:00,240
- One.
226
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There was a girl that
had been in the chat.
227
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Deedee.
228
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He said she was the
mother of his son.
229
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And that was his ex, but
they stayed in the same house
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for their child.
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I became friends with her also.
232
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Even if he wasn't home,
I'd call for him,
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me and her would talk
for like an hour.
234
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- So it was...it was
like a house phone?
235
00:09:16,823 --> 00:09:18,158
- Yeah.
236
00:09:18,225 --> 00:09:20,327
- So have you only
ever had his landline?
237
00:09:20,394 --> 00:09:22,029
Or do you now have
his cell phone?
238
00:09:22,095 --> 00:09:23,564
- No, I don't have
his cell phone.
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We talk strictly through
Messenger on Facebook.
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- When was the last
time he messaged you?
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- Uh, last night.
242
00:09:29,870 --> 00:09:31,572
- Last night? Wow.
- Yeah.
243
00:09:31,638 --> 00:09:33,574
- So he's had the same
Facebook page for a while.
244
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,676
- Yeah.
- You've seen a photo of him?
245
00:09:35,742 --> 00:09:38,512
- Yeah. These are pictures
that he had sent me
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00:09:38,579 --> 00:09:40,380
a while back, like, online.
247
00:09:40,447 --> 00:09:42,683
- Wait, let me see.
- That's him at the top.
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00:09:42,749 --> 00:09:45,085
- Wow. Look at this guy.
249
00:09:45,152 --> 00:09:48,522
- And when he had sent
them to me, he said, "Shh."
250
00:09:48,589 --> 00:09:50,858
I guess he didn't want me
to show 'em anybody else.
251
00:09:50,924 --> 00:09:53,560
- Hmm.
- And we'd never video chatted.
252
00:09:53,627 --> 00:09:55,729
There was always a
reason it didn't work.
253
00:09:55,796 --> 00:09:56,997
He needed to get a webcam.
254
00:09:57,064 --> 00:09:58,632
There was this, there was that.
255
00:09:58,699 --> 00:10:00,701
And back then I figured, oh,
you know, eventually,
256
00:10:00,767 --> 00:10:01,902
we'll meet each other.
257
00:10:01,969 --> 00:10:03,670
Never dreamed it
would go this long.
258
00:10:03,737 --> 00:10:08,575
- So what if, for these last 20
years, David has lied to you?
259
00:10:08,642 --> 00:10:11,011
What if he's not the
guy in the pictures?
260
00:10:11,078 --> 00:10:13,013
What if he hasn't
been honest with you?
261
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,984
- Well, of course,
I would be upset with him.
262
00:10:17,050 --> 00:10:18,652
It's still not a deal breaker.
263
00:10:18,719 --> 00:10:19,987
- Really?
264
00:10:20,053 --> 00:10:21,755
So you think you
could still pursue
265
00:10:21,822 --> 00:10:23,457
a relationship with him?
266
00:10:23,524 --> 00:10:25,826
- I mean, when it mattered,
when I really need someone,
267
00:10:25,893 --> 00:10:27,094
he's been there.
268
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,162
You know, people make mistakes.
269
00:10:29,229 --> 00:10:31,532
And if he's willing
to make things right,
270
00:10:31,598 --> 00:10:33,667
there's still
possibilities there.
271
00:10:33,734 --> 00:10:35,135
It's been 20 years now.
272
00:10:35,202 --> 00:10:37,004
We need to get to
the bottom of this.
273
00:10:37,070 --> 00:10:40,541
I'm done playing the
game and waiting.
274
00:10:40,607 --> 00:10:43,610
You know, it's not gonna be
on David's terms anymore.
275
00:10:43,677 --> 00:10:45,379
It's going to be
where I step up.
276
00:10:45,445 --> 00:10:47,548
I'm ready to do
something with my life.
277
00:10:47,614 --> 00:10:49,583
And if it's going to
be with him, great.
278
00:10:49,650 --> 00:10:51,051
- Right.
279
00:10:51,118 --> 00:10:54,388
We're gonna need you
to send us any info...
280
00:10:54,454 --> 00:10:55,589
- Okay.
281
00:10:55,656 --> 00:10:57,191
- You know,
that you have on David.
282
00:10:57,257 --> 00:10:59,126
Tomorrow, we'll start
digging and we'll just
283
00:10:59,193 --> 00:11:00,994
have to take it from there.
- All right.
284
00:11:01,061 --> 00:11:02,095
- We got to make this happen.
285
00:11:02,162 --> 00:11:03,630
- Yeah, we got to
make this happen.
286
00:11:03,697 --> 00:11:07,568
Finally, after all these
years, the time is now.
287
00:11:13,874 --> 00:11:15,843
- The Black Cat Café.
- Oh!
288
00:11:15,909 --> 00:11:17,845
- They have ice cream and cats.
- Wow.
289
00:11:17,911 --> 00:11:20,013
- You little sleepy kitty.
290
00:11:21,048 --> 00:11:21,982
- Cute.
291
00:11:22,049 --> 00:11:24,218
- All right, so what do we got?
292
00:11:24,284 --> 00:11:26,987
We got Motherwolff and David.
293
00:11:27,054 --> 00:11:30,991
For 20 years,
they've been talking.
294
00:11:31,925 --> 00:11:35,095
For the first few years,
they were like very serious
295
00:11:35,162 --> 00:11:36,463
and together.
- Mm-hmm.
296
00:11:36,530 --> 00:11:37,865
- But things happen.
297
00:11:37,931 --> 00:11:39,700
They lost touch,
they get back in touch.
298
00:11:39,766 --> 00:11:41,702
Motherwolff believes
that they are connected,
299
00:11:41,768 --> 00:11:44,238
and he feels and hears her.
300
00:11:44,304 --> 00:11:45,405
She needs him.
301
00:11:45,472 --> 00:11:47,107
He's always there.
302
00:11:47,174 --> 00:11:50,644
And they've really maintained
a very meaningful relationship
303
00:11:50,711 --> 00:11:52,212
for most of those 20 years.
304
00:11:52,279 --> 00:11:54,548
- Yeah, I mean, it seems
like the last missing
305
00:11:54,615 --> 00:11:56,950
piece to her life right
now is figuring this out.
306
00:11:57,017 --> 00:11:59,119
But I have a lot of
questions about David.
307
00:11:59,186 --> 00:12:01,421
- For sure. All right,
so you ready to dive in?
308
00:12:01,488 --> 00:12:02,990
- Hell yeah.
309
00:12:03,056 --> 00:12:05,359
- "Hey, guys, here's the
details I know about David.
310
00:12:05,425 --> 00:12:08,896
His name is David Derringer,
and he lives in Orlando.
311
00:12:08,962 --> 00:12:10,998
The pictures I
have are attached.
312
00:12:11,064 --> 00:12:13,367
I no longer have any of the
phone numbers for David.
313
00:12:13,433 --> 00:12:15,135
I have previously
sent him gifts
314
00:12:15,202 --> 00:12:16,703
to an address in Orlando.
315
00:12:16,770 --> 00:12:18,405
Don't have the full
address anymore.
316
00:12:18,472 --> 00:12:20,707
But I know it was
on Stonebridge Drive
317
00:12:20,774 --> 00:12:21,942
in Orlando, Florida.
318
00:12:22,009 --> 00:12:24,545
His Facebook
is David Derringer.
319
00:12:24,611 --> 00:12:26,446
I can't wait to hear
what you find out.
320
00:12:26,513 --> 00:12:27,548
Thanks again.
321
00:12:27,614 --> 00:12:29,149
Aooooooo!
322
00:12:29,216 --> 00:12:30,484
Motherwolff."
323
00:12:30,551 --> 00:12:31,919
- I didn't know that's
how you spelt a howl.
324
00:12:31,985 --> 00:12:33,754
That's smart.
- Okay, so let's see.
325
00:12:33,820 --> 00:12:35,122
We don't have a ton.
326
00:12:35,189 --> 00:12:36,657
Let's go to his
Facebook page and just
327
00:12:36,723 --> 00:12:39,593
see what it looks like because
she talked a lot about it.
328
00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:42,996
All right, so there's
a picture of a wolf.
329
00:12:43,063 --> 00:12:45,599
He lives in Orlando,
64 friends.
330
00:12:45,666 --> 00:12:48,302
Family, no relationships,
no family details.
331
00:12:48,368 --> 00:12:49,870
Nothing.
Yeah.
332
00:12:49,937 --> 00:12:53,140
Okay, so there's not a lot on
here except for his friends.
333
00:12:53,207 --> 00:12:56,810
There's photos of David, and
it's literally the night sky.
334
00:12:56,877 --> 00:12:59,179
So David's profile does not
have a lot of information
335
00:12:59,246 --> 00:13:00,547
on it.
336
00:13:00,614 --> 00:13:02,249
I'd say this page
looks pretty fake.
337
00:13:02,316 --> 00:13:04,284
So I think we should
run the photos.
338
00:13:04,351 --> 00:13:08,121
Let's try a little
facial recognition.
339
00:13:08,188 --> 00:13:11,225
Whoa, a lot of hits.
340
00:13:11,291 --> 00:13:12,926
Definitely the same guy.
341
00:13:12,993 --> 00:13:14,995
What is this website?
342
00:13:15,062 --> 00:13:15,996
Fubar?
343
00:13:16,063 --> 00:13:17,764
- sexyrexy.
- Huh?
344
00:13:17,831 --> 00:13:20,334
- "sexyrexy's photos."
- "sexyrexy's photos."
345
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,269
Yeah, it looks like
most of the pictures
346
00:13:22,336 --> 00:13:23,804
are from this website.
347
00:13:23,871 --> 00:13:25,239
And some of these
obviously she has not seen.
348
00:13:25,305 --> 00:13:26,907
Who's sexyrexy?
349
00:13:26,974 --> 00:13:29,710
From Lansing, Michigan.
350
00:13:29,776 --> 00:13:31,011
Interesting.
351
00:13:31,078 --> 00:13:33,347
No mention of Orlando though.
352
00:13:33,413 --> 00:13:36,183
I wonder if maybe David
stole this guy's picture.
353
00:13:36,250 --> 00:13:37,618
All right.
354
00:13:37,684 --> 00:13:39,152
So we found a hit with
one of the photos.
355
00:13:39,219 --> 00:13:42,789
But it all points to this
weird sort of online bar
356
00:13:42,856 --> 00:13:44,491
friend finder game.
357
00:13:44,558 --> 00:13:46,527
Doesn't tell us
who he is though.
358
00:13:46,593 --> 00:13:47,961
Weird.
359
00:13:48,028 --> 00:13:50,397
So we don't know for sure
who sexyrexy is.
360
00:13:50,464 --> 00:13:52,466
Let's just see if there's
even a David Derringer
361
00:13:52,533 --> 00:13:54,968
who lives in Orlando.
362
00:13:55,035 --> 00:13:56,770
Oh. Okay.
363
00:13:56,837 --> 00:13:59,506
There is one
David Derringer, 46,
364
00:13:59,573 --> 00:14:01,408
which is probably
around the right age.
365
00:14:01,475 --> 00:14:02,910
Lives in Orlando.
366
00:14:02,976 --> 00:14:04,811
Stonebridge Drive.
- Oh, yeah!
367
00:14:04,878 --> 00:14:06,213
- She was like,
"I don't remember much.
368
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,715
But I remember he lived
on Stonebridge Drive."
369
00:14:08,782 --> 00:14:11,218
- Yeah.
- This is probably him.
370
00:14:11,285 --> 00:14:13,520
- That's good.
- No phone numbers found,
371
00:14:13,587 --> 00:14:15,956
no email address or relatives.
- That's not good.
372
00:14:16,023 --> 00:14:17,357
- There's nothing
here about him.
373
00:14:17,424 --> 00:14:21,395
But it does confirm
there is a David Derringer
374
00:14:21,461 --> 00:14:23,931
who's 46 in Florida.
375
00:14:23,997 --> 00:14:25,799
Okay, well, this
is our first...
376
00:14:25,866 --> 00:14:28,101
- This is good.
- Good piece of information.
377
00:14:28,168 --> 00:14:30,938
- And he's 46.
- Yeah, the right age zone.
378
00:14:31,004 --> 00:14:32,272
Is this who she's talking to?
It's gotta be
379
00:14:32,339 --> 00:14:33,640
who she's talking to.
- It's the addresses,
380
00:14:33,707 --> 00:14:35,108
it's the name.
- So maybe his name
381
00:14:35,175 --> 00:14:37,411
really is David, and he really
does live In Florida.
382
00:14:37,477 --> 00:14:39,079
But the pictures
of that other guy
383
00:14:39,146 --> 00:14:42,282
were definitely from
Lansing, Michigan.
384
00:14:42,349 --> 00:14:43,951
- Yes.
385
00:14:44,017 --> 00:14:48,088
- I guess we could search
David Derringer Orlando
386
00:14:48,155 --> 00:14:50,757
and see if there's any
pictures or anything.
387
00:14:50,824 --> 00:14:52,626
Whoa, look at this.
388
00:14:52,693 --> 00:14:55,729
David Derringer,
a real estate agent.
389
00:14:55,796 --> 00:14:57,564
- Maybe...
- So this could be the guy
390
00:14:57,631 --> 00:14:59,066
Motherwolff's
really talking to.
391
00:14:59,132 --> 00:15:01,134
- That would explain, to
some extent why he's been
392
00:15:01,201 --> 00:15:02,803
so nervous to
possibly meet up with her,
393
00:15:02,870 --> 00:15:05,305
'cause he's been sending
pictures of someone else.
394
00:15:05,372 --> 00:15:06,940
This could be what he's
been hiding all along.
395
00:15:13,814 --> 00:15:16,783
I mean, 20 years is a long
time to lie to someone.
396
00:15:16,850 --> 00:15:18,886
- I'd be upset for sure.
397
00:15:18,952 --> 00:15:20,521
- All right.
398
00:15:22,756 --> 00:15:27,528
Aoooo!
- Aoooo!
399
00:15:28,195 --> 00:15:29,897
- Hears us.
400
00:15:29,963 --> 00:15:31,965
- Oh, hi.
- Hello.
401
00:15:32,032 --> 00:15:33,500
- Hey, yo.
- What's up?
402
00:15:33,567 --> 00:15:34,568
- Come on in.
403
00:15:34,635 --> 00:15:37,137
- Okay, into the
wolf den we go.
404
00:15:38,138 --> 00:15:40,374
- I'll let everybody settle in.
405
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,276
And how are you feeling
just in general?
406
00:15:42,342 --> 00:15:44,611
- Butterflies.
A little nervous.
407
00:15:44,678 --> 00:15:46,113
- All right, well,
we're gonna take you through
408
00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:47,981
kind of what we found.
- Okay.
409
00:15:48,048 --> 00:15:50,184
- Okay.
410
00:15:50,250 --> 00:15:52,553
So we took the photos
that you sent us.
411
00:15:52,619 --> 00:15:54,888
And the first one we searched
on this website
412
00:15:54,955 --> 00:15:58,058
that sort of does like
a facial recognition scan for--
413
00:15:58,125 --> 00:16:00,494
- Yeah.
- Came back with some hits.
414
00:16:03,297 --> 00:16:07,034
- These are some pictures
that you haven't seen.
415
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,670
- Yeah, I haven't
seen most of these.
416
00:16:09,736 --> 00:16:11,872
- This is a website
called Fubar.
417
00:16:11,939 --> 00:16:15,409
It's like an online Internet
bar where people mingle
418
00:16:15,475 --> 00:16:17,711
and meet each other.
sexyrexy?
419
00:16:17,778 --> 00:16:20,314
Would that be a name
he might give himself?
420
00:16:20,380 --> 00:16:22,583
- Maybe if he was being silly.
- Okay.
421
00:16:22,649 --> 00:16:25,319
So there's not
a lot on this profile.
422
00:16:25,385 --> 00:16:27,354
The only thing that
you can see, though,
423
00:16:27,421 --> 00:16:29,957
is that it says he's male
and from Lansing, Michigan.
424
00:16:30,023 --> 00:16:33,994
He's never talked about being
from or being in Michigan
425
00:16:34,061 --> 00:16:36,563
while you've known him, right?
- No.
426
00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:38,265
- So it looks like the name
of the guy in the pictures
427
00:16:38,332 --> 00:16:40,234
might be Rex or Rexy.
428
00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:42,436
Here's where it
gets interesting.
429
00:16:42,503 --> 00:16:46,206
When we did a search for David
Derringer in Orlando, Florida,
430
00:16:46,273 --> 00:16:47,741
we got a hit.
431
00:16:47,808 --> 00:16:50,544
This guy comes up as
living in Orlando.
432
00:16:50,611 --> 00:16:52,513
And look at this.
433
00:16:52,579 --> 00:16:54,114
- [gasps]
434
00:16:54,181 --> 00:16:56,083
That's the address.
That was the street.
435
00:16:56,149 --> 00:16:57,818
- Stonebridge Drive, right.
Which is what
436
00:16:57,885 --> 00:16:59,119
you had sent to us.
- Yes.
437
00:16:59,186 --> 00:17:00,754
- I mean, you sent him
stuff, he got it, right?
438
00:17:00,821 --> 00:17:02,155
- Right, yeah.
439
00:17:02,222 --> 00:17:03,624
- So, you know,
there's someone there.
440
00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:05,025
But the fact that his name
is in fact David Derringer
441
00:17:05,092 --> 00:17:07,628
and his age is what
you kind of assumed it was,
442
00:17:07,694 --> 00:17:10,697
those are big things
to sort of finally confirm.
443
00:17:10,764 --> 00:17:12,833
But we wanted to
see if we could find out
444
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:14,635
what this guy looked like.
445
00:17:14,701 --> 00:17:18,038
A simple Google search for
David Derringer in Orlando...
446
00:17:18,105 --> 00:17:19,706
- Mm-hmm.
447
00:17:19,773 --> 00:17:25,012
- Leads primarily to
this real estate agent.
448
00:17:25,078 --> 00:17:26,446
The page is private.
449
00:17:26,513 --> 00:17:29,183
So there's not a lot
on here but a picture.
450
00:17:30,717 --> 00:17:33,453
- Wow.
451
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,625
- This could be the person
who you're really talking to.
452
00:17:38,692 --> 00:17:41,361
[soft music]
453
00:17:41,428 --> 00:17:45,499
- I don't know what to think.
I really don't.
454
00:17:48,702 --> 00:17:51,205
- ♪♪ Who ♪♪
455
00:17:51,271 --> 00:17:55,075
♪♪ Are you ♪♪
456
00:17:55,142 --> 00:17:57,444
♪♪ Who...♪♪
457
00:17:57,511 --> 00:17:59,346
- Sometimes, I just think it's
time to throw in the towel,
458
00:17:59,413 --> 00:18:02,983
you know, after all this time.
459
00:18:03,050 --> 00:18:06,119
- ♪♪ Who ♪♪
460
00:18:06,186 --> 00:18:07,921
♪♪ Are you ♪♪
461
00:18:07,988 --> 00:18:10,757
- Why has someone got
to hide that long?
462
00:18:10,824 --> 00:18:14,428
He says he would do anything,
well, then it's time
463
00:18:14,494 --> 00:18:18,131
to [bleep] or get off the pot.
464
00:18:18,198 --> 00:18:20,434
Stand up and show yourself.
465
00:18:20,501 --> 00:18:24,805
- ♪♪ I thought I knew ♪♪
466
00:18:24,872 --> 00:18:26,707
♪♪ ♪♪
467
00:18:26,773 --> 00:18:28,509
- So I think the move
then obviously is
468
00:18:28,575 --> 00:18:30,644
that we have to contact him.
- Yeah.
469
00:18:30,711 --> 00:18:32,980
- Now it seems the only
way we can do that
470
00:18:33,046 --> 00:18:34,882
is through his Facebook page.
471
00:18:34,948 --> 00:18:37,150
- Yeah, 'cause he's on it.
He said he never signs out.
472
00:18:37,217 --> 00:18:39,319
- Let's send him a message.
Right.
473
00:18:39,386 --> 00:18:42,723
Hey, David.
474
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:44,925
My name is Nev, and I'm the
host of the TV show "Catfish."
475
00:18:44,992 --> 00:18:46,827
I'm actually in Pennsylvania
now with Motherwolff
476
00:18:46,894 --> 00:18:49,062
who has told me all
about your incredible
477
00:18:49,129 --> 00:18:50,464
20-year-long friendship.
478
00:18:50,531 --> 00:18:52,599
I'd love to speak
with you and help you two
479
00:18:52,666 --> 00:18:55,469
finally meet up in person
after all these years.
480
00:18:55,536 --> 00:18:57,004
Please give me a
call as soon as possible
481
00:18:57,070 --> 00:18:58,805
so we can organize.
Great.
482
00:18:58,872 --> 00:19:00,240
Send it.
483
00:19:00,307 --> 00:19:02,409
- Boom.
484
00:19:02,476 --> 00:19:03,744
- I almost feel
like you...you should
485
00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:05,412
send him another message.
- I can do that.
486
00:19:05,479 --> 00:19:07,915
Check your message requests.
It's important.
487
00:19:07,981 --> 00:19:09,516
- Okay, that's fine.
488
00:19:09,583 --> 00:19:10,784
- He's on.
- Oh, he's typing.
489
00:19:10,851 --> 00:19:12,486
He's typing.
- He just saw it.
490
00:19:12,553 --> 00:19:15,122
[phone buzzes]
[gasps]
491
00:19:15,189 --> 00:19:17,724
He's calling.
- Oh, my God.
492
00:19:17,791 --> 00:19:20,060
- How do you have his...oh,
he's calling on Facebook.
493
00:19:20,127 --> 00:19:21,061
Okay.
Answer, answer.
494
00:19:21,128 --> 00:19:22,262
Put him on speaker.
495
00:19:22,329 --> 00:19:24,264
Put him on speaker.
496
00:19:24,331 --> 00:19:27,000
- Hey.
- Hey.
497
00:19:27,067 --> 00:19:29,770
- Hey.
498
00:19:29,837 --> 00:19:32,072
- Um, hi.
499
00:19:32,139 --> 00:19:33,640
It's so good to
hear your voice.
500
00:19:33,707 --> 00:19:36,610
I didn't expect you to call.
501
00:19:36,677 --> 00:19:42,015
Um, I'm sitting here with Nev
and the crew from "Catfish."
502
00:19:42,082 --> 00:19:44,818
Um...
503
00:19:44,885 --> 00:19:49,656
They've offered to help us
meet up with each other.
504
00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:06,673
- Well, we just seem to
keep running into roadblocks
505
00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:10,010
ourselves and just seemed
like the way to do it.
506
00:20:10,077 --> 00:20:12,513
I mean, it's been 20 years now.
507
00:20:12,579 --> 00:20:14,314
I don't want it to
just be something
508
00:20:14,381 --> 00:20:15,849
we talk about anymore.
509
00:20:15,916 --> 00:20:18,318
I want it to be something
that we actually do.
510
00:20:24,925 --> 00:20:26,760
And...
- I know.
511
00:20:34,635 --> 00:20:36,670
- Hey, David, hey, sorry.
512
00:20:36,737 --> 00:20:38,438
I'm just jumping in real quick.
513
00:20:38,505 --> 00:20:39,840
It's Nev here.
514
00:20:39,907 --> 00:20:42,142
You obviously know
Motherwolff very well.
515
00:20:42,209 --> 00:20:45,712
And I'm sure in the 20 years
that you guys have talked
516
00:20:45,779 --> 00:20:47,848
and that you've been there
for her and you've connected,
517
00:20:47,915 --> 00:20:51,552
you've learned how
incredible and supportive
518
00:20:51,618 --> 00:20:53,787
and accepting she is.
519
00:20:53,854 --> 00:20:55,956
Perhaps there is something
that maybe she doesn't know
520
00:20:56,023 --> 00:20:58,625
or that you may have told
her that wasn't true.
521
00:21:02,496 --> 00:21:03,931
- I totally get that.
522
00:21:03,997 --> 00:21:05,832
So just before we go,
last thing--
523
00:21:05,899 --> 00:21:08,335
you're in Orlando, Florida,
right?
524
00:21:14,641 --> 00:21:16,777
- Wow.
[Motherwolff sobbing]
525
00:21:21,882 --> 00:21:23,650
- Perhaps there is something
that maybe she doesn't know
526
00:21:23,717 --> 00:21:26,086
or that you may have told
her that wasn't true.
527
00:21:30,157 --> 00:21:31,658
- I totally get that.
528
00:21:31,725 --> 00:21:33,927
So just before we go,
last thing--you're in Orlando,
529
00:21:33,994 --> 00:21:36,496
Florida, right?
530
00:21:42,402 --> 00:21:44,538
- Wow.
531
00:21:44,605 --> 00:21:47,808
[somber music]
532
00:21:47,875 --> 00:21:52,145
♪♪ ♪♪
533
00:21:52,212 --> 00:21:54,948
- I could tell he was angry
when he hung up.
534
00:21:55,015 --> 00:21:58,051
Could hear in his voice.
535
00:21:58,118 --> 00:22:02,489
- ♪♪ I wish I could
get over you ♪♪
536
00:22:02,556 --> 00:22:05,225
♪♪ And I hate that I can't ♪♪
537
00:22:05,292 --> 00:22:08,562
- That's definitely the voice.
538
00:22:08,629 --> 00:22:11,365
- ♪♪ I'm still haunted
by the ghost of you ♪♪
539
00:22:11,431 --> 00:22:13,567
- I'm ready to take you
down there,
540
00:22:13,634 --> 00:22:15,669
whether he
calls us back or not.
541
00:22:17,771 --> 00:22:19,273
We know where he lives.
542
00:22:19,339 --> 00:22:22,009
I guess I can just
message him now.
543
00:22:22,075 --> 00:22:23,777
Hey, David.
We're gonna fly down
544
00:22:23,844 --> 00:22:25,112
to Orlando tomorrow morning
545
00:22:25,179 --> 00:22:27,080
in the hopes that you
agree to meet up with us.
546
00:22:27,147 --> 00:22:29,583
Okay.
Sent.
547
00:22:29,650 --> 00:22:32,052
We got some packing to do.
We'll meet you at the airport
548
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,787
or we'll pick you up,
whatever.
549
00:22:33,854 --> 00:22:35,289
We'll figure it out.
- Okay.
550
00:22:35,355 --> 00:22:37,958
- We just have to get down
there, force the issue.
551
00:22:38,025 --> 00:22:39,426
♪♪ ♪♪
552
00:22:39,493 --> 00:22:40,661
- There she is.
553
00:22:40,727 --> 00:22:41,962
- What's up?
554
00:22:42,029 --> 00:22:43,297
Good to see you.
555
00:22:43,363 --> 00:22:45,465
- Have you heard
anything from David?
556
00:22:45,532 --> 00:22:48,202
- No.
The day of reckoning.
557
00:22:49,269 --> 00:22:50,838
- All right.
- This is wild.
558
00:22:50,904 --> 00:22:52,005
- Really ridin' in style.
559
00:22:53,707 --> 00:22:55,309
- ♪♪ I never needed you ♪♪
560
00:22:55,375 --> 00:22:57,578
♪♪ In all this time ♪♪
561
00:22:57,644 --> 00:23:01,081
- ♪♪ I never loved you
in all this time ♪♪
562
00:23:01,148 --> 00:23:04,184
♪♪ I never needed you at all ♪♪
563
00:23:04,251 --> 00:23:05,919
♪♪ ♪♪
564
00:23:05,986 --> 00:23:07,654
- We made it.
565
00:23:10,457 --> 00:23:12,125
I mean, we have his address.
566
00:23:12,192 --> 00:23:13,560
Shall we do
a little knock, knock?
567
00:23:13,627 --> 00:23:15,395
The only reason I even
suggest that is because
568
00:23:15,462 --> 00:23:17,331
you've been waiting 20 years.
- Yeah.
569
00:23:17,397 --> 00:23:19,366
- So I say we just go
and check it out.
570
00:23:19,433 --> 00:23:20,801
- I agree.
571
00:23:20,868 --> 00:23:22,536
- Here, Dylan, why don't you
send a quick message?
572
00:23:22,603 --> 00:23:24,638
- Just want to give
you a heads up.
573
00:23:24,705 --> 00:23:27,174
We have an address
that we think is yours.
574
00:23:27,241 --> 00:23:30,010
We're going to stop by
and hopefully we can meet.
575
00:23:34,081 --> 00:23:35,849
- He just saw my messages.
- Oh, yeah?
576
00:23:35,916 --> 00:23:38,685
- And told him, I said, "I
don't have any expectations
577
00:23:38,752 --> 00:23:41,388
for you except to
finally see you and not
578
00:23:41,455 --> 00:23:43,056
just a name on the screen."
579
00:23:43,123 --> 00:23:46,660
Hasn't said anything,
but he's seen it.
580
00:23:46,727 --> 00:23:49,630
[tense music]
581
00:23:49,696 --> 00:23:54,935
♪♪ ♪♪
582
00:23:55,002 --> 00:23:56,637
- It's just down this road.
583
00:23:56,703 --> 00:24:00,107
[Nev and Motherwolff
talking under breath]
584
00:24:00,174 --> 00:24:01,542
- Well, there it is.
585
00:24:01,608 --> 00:24:05,045
[tense music]
586
00:24:05,112 --> 00:24:08,081
- All right, well,
hopefully, he's in there.
587
00:24:09,716 --> 00:24:10,918
How are you feeling?
588
00:24:10,984 --> 00:24:12,986
- Whew.
589
00:24:13,053 --> 00:24:14,788
Shaking like a leaf right now.
590
00:24:14,855 --> 00:24:17,491
- Yeah.
We don't know what to expect.
591
00:24:17,558 --> 00:24:18,892
- Yeah.
- We've seen all kinds of
592
00:24:18,959 --> 00:24:20,661
weird things happen.
It could be that real estate
593
00:24:20,727 --> 00:24:23,096
agent whose photos we found.
Expect anything.
594
00:24:23,163 --> 00:24:24,898
- Whew...
595
00:24:24,965 --> 00:24:26,466
- Let's do it.
596
00:24:32,673 --> 00:24:35,175
- Just hang here
and I'll knock.
597
00:24:35,242 --> 00:24:38,712
[suspenseful music]
598
00:24:38,779 --> 00:24:40,247
♪♪ ♪♪
599
00:24:40,314 --> 00:24:42,683
- No matter what happens,
we're here with you.
600
00:24:42,749 --> 00:24:49,690
♪♪ ♪♪
601
00:24:49,756 --> 00:24:51,191
- Come on, David.
602
00:24:52,459 --> 00:24:54,561
There's a light on, but...
603
00:24:54,628 --> 00:24:56,430
Oh! Jesus.
604
00:24:58,031 --> 00:24:59,499
- Hello.
605
00:24:59,566 --> 00:25:01,134
- Oh, my God.
606
00:25:06,473 --> 00:25:08,675
- I mean, I...there's
a light on, but...
607
00:25:08,742 --> 00:25:11,645
[suspenseful music]
608
00:25:11,712 --> 00:25:14,715
♪♪ ♪♪
609
00:25:14,781 --> 00:25:16,650
Oh! Jesus.
610
00:25:20,287 --> 00:25:22,022
Hello.
611
00:25:22,089 --> 00:25:23,390
- Hey.
612
00:25:23,457 --> 00:25:24,791
- Hi.
613
00:25:24,858 --> 00:25:26,593
How you doing?
- I'm all right.
614
00:25:26,660 --> 00:25:28,529
- Nev.
- David.
615
00:25:28,595 --> 00:25:30,797
- David. All right.
Nice to meet you.
616
00:25:31,665 --> 00:25:37,271
[quiet music]
617
00:25:37,337 --> 00:25:38,272
- Hi.
618
00:25:38,338 --> 00:25:39,773
- Hey.
619
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:45,145
- This is June, or
Motherwolff, as you know her.
620
00:25:45,212 --> 00:25:47,514
- So how are you?
621
00:25:47,581 --> 00:25:50,217
- I'm good.
How are you?
622
00:25:50,284 --> 00:25:52,319
- I'm good.
623
00:25:52,386 --> 00:25:58,625
♪♪ ♪♪
624
00:25:58,692 --> 00:26:01,061
I don't know what to say.
I'm so...
625
00:26:01,128 --> 00:26:04,331
This has been
a long time coming.
626
00:26:04,398 --> 00:26:07,668
But I'm here, so...
627
00:26:07,734 --> 00:26:10,337
- Well, you look really nice.
628
00:26:10,404 --> 00:26:12,306
- Thank you.
- Yeah.
629
00:26:12,372 --> 00:26:15,375
- You don't look
so bad yourself...ha ha.
630
00:26:19,913 --> 00:26:24,384
- You guys mind if we just
jump in for a minute?
631
00:26:24,451 --> 00:26:26,220
- Yeah, go right ahead.
632
00:26:26,286 --> 00:26:29,389
- Clearly, you're not
the person in the photos
633
00:26:29,456 --> 00:26:30,524
that you sent.
634
00:26:30,591 --> 00:26:33,026
Right?
- Yeah, yeah, I know.
635
00:26:33,093 --> 00:26:37,865
- Is that essentially
what's been keeping you...
636
00:26:37,931 --> 00:26:40,767
from showing your
true self all these years
637
00:26:40,834 --> 00:26:42,302
and meeting up?
638
00:26:42,369 --> 00:26:43,837
- Yeah, I guess so.
639
00:26:43,904 --> 00:26:45,939
- And it's been you
and only you talking
640
00:26:46,006 --> 00:26:47,174
to her this whole time,
right?
641
00:26:47,241 --> 00:26:48,509
- Yeah.
642
00:26:48,575 --> 00:26:51,678
- Well, now that the
"cat's out of the bag,"
643
00:26:51,745 --> 00:26:56,049
do you feel more comfortable
with the idea of us finally
644
00:26:56,116 --> 00:26:57,885
bringing you two together?
645
00:26:57,951 --> 00:27:02,089
- I mean, I'm glad
you're here, you know?
646
00:27:02,155 --> 00:27:05,459
I've always wanted to, like,
meet up with you,
647
00:27:05,526 --> 00:27:06,927
all right?
- Mm-hmm.
648
00:27:06,994 --> 00:27:08,529
- 'Cause you know you
always have my heart.
649
00:27:08,595 --> 00:27:10,731
- Yeah, same here.
- Yeah.
650
00:27:10,797 --> 00:27:13,233
- Why have you been so elusive?
651
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:15,869
I mean, you're not the
person in the photos.
652
00:27:15,936 --> 00:27:18,472
But surely,
you have a phone, right?
653
00:27:18,539 --> 00:27:22,009
- Um, I really don't
use my phone like that.
654
00:27:22,075 --> 00:27:25,512
- Forgive me for asking
some kind of
655
00:27:25,579 --> 00:27:27,548
standard questions here.
656
00:27:27,614 --> 00:27:29,616
But are you in a relationship?
657
00:27:29,683 --> 00:27:32,152
- No, no.
- Okay.
658
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,155
Well, I guess the
question I have is,
659
00:27:35,222 --> 00:27:38,192
I understand,
years and years ago,
660
00:27:38,258 --> 00:27:40,260
you sent her
a picture that wasn't you.
661
00:27:40,327 --> 00:27:41,995
- Yeah.
- But has there been
662
00:27:42,062 --> 00:27:44,898
any other
meaningful information
663
00:27:44,965 --> 00:27:47,267
that you feel you
were keeping from her
664
00:27:47,334 --> 00:27:48,936
or that you never
shared with her?
665
00:27:49,002 --> 00:27:51,104
That you lied about?
666
00:27:51,171 --> 00:27:52,272
- Um...
667
00:27:52,339 --> 00:27:54,975
- June, would you
prefer a seat?
668
00:27:55,943 --> 00:27:57,811
- I mean, there's a lot.
669
00:27:57,878 --> 00:28:01,782
[heavy music]
670
00:28:01,849 --> 00:28:06,553
Before I tell you, just...
671
00:28:06,620 --> 00:28:09,590
just know that everything I
said was...was the truth,
672
00:28:09,656 --> 00:28:10,791
okay?
- Okay.
673
00:28:10,858 --> 00:28:12,593
- Always, always love you.
674
00:28:12,659 --> 00:28:13,727
[music escalates]
675
00:28:13,794 --> 00:28:15,996
But...
676
00:28:16,964 --> 00:28:18,131
- Okay.
677
00:28:18,198 --> 00:28:21,235
- David was someone
I just made up.
678
00:28:22,503 --> 00:28:24,204
But when...
679
00:28:24,271 --> 00:28:28,041
when I am David,
I mean every word I say.
680
00:28:28,108 --> 00:28:31,512
Actually, I'm Denise...
681
00:28:31,578 --> 00:28:33,514
[in a woman's voice]
And I just basically
682
00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:36,149
roleplay David.
683
00:28:36,216 --> 00:28:39,319
[soft, dramatic music]
684
00:28:39,386 --> 00:28:43,023
♪♪ ♪♪
685
00:28:43,090 --> 00:28:44,892
- Okay, so let me
get this straight.
686
00:28:44,958 --> 00:28:49,730
So in all of your conversations
and communication with June,
687
00:28:49,796 --> 00:28:52,366
you were playing
the David character.
688
00:28:52,432 --> 00:28:53,934
- Yeah.
689
00:28:56,203 --> 00:29:00,741
- So in your day-to-day life,
people know you as Denise?
690
00:29:00,807 --> 00:29:02,142
- Yeah.
691
00:29:02,209 --> 00:29:05,078
But let me tell you something.
692
00:29:05,145 --> 00:29:07,681
David loves June 100%.
693
00:29:07,748 --> 00:29:11,718
And when I'm portraying David,
694
00:29:11,785 --> 00:29:13,887
okay, I become David.
695
00:29:13,954 --> 00:29:15,155
- I know.
696
00:29:15,222 --> 00:29:16,790
- So when I play David...
697
00:29:16,857 --> 00:29:18,926
[in a man's voice]
He loves you.
698
00:29:18,992 --> 00:29:20,928
Okay?
699
00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:26,433
- So then, as Denise,
do you have any interest
700
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:28,335
in a relationship
with Motherwolff?
701
00:29:28,402 --> 00:29:31,972
Or is that exclusive
to your character of David?
702
00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:33,507
- It's just with David.
703
00:29:33,574 --> 00:29:36,076
- So in your in your
day-to-day life as Denise,
704
00:29:36,143 --> 00:29:38,579
you don't imagine your
friendship and relationship?
705
00:29:38,645 --> 00:29:39,780
- No.
- No.
706
00:29:39,847 --> 00:29:40,948
Okay.
707
00:29:41,014 --> 00:29:42,983
I mean, it's definitely weird.
708
00:29:43,050 --> 00:29:45,719
This is a first for us
that someone would be
709
00:29:45,786 --> 00:29:48,655
talking to someone who has
710
00:29:48,722 --> 00:29:51,158
essentially sort of
two versions of themself.
711
00:29:51,225 --> 00:29:52,459
- Right.
712
00:29:52,526 --> 00:29:55,162
Because when I play David,
I become David.
713
00:29:57,464 --> 00:29:59,199
[in a woman's voice]
And then when I'm Denise,
714
00:29:59,266 --> 00:30:02,870
then I'm totally
completely opposite.
715
00:30:02,936 --> 00:30:04,905
You know, when I'm with Denise,
716
00:30:04,972 --> 00:30:07,174
I don't like women,
I don't--I dress--
717
00:30:07,241 --> 00:30:08,876
I do not dress like this.
718
00:30:08,942 --> 00:30:10,577
- Got it.
719
00:30:10,644 --> 00:30:12,613
[in a man's voice]
- Only David does.
720
00:30:12,679 --> 00:30:14,448
[in a woman's voice]
And Dave's a good guy.
721
00:30:14,515 --> 00:30:16,984
He really is.
- Yeah, yeah, he definitely is.
722
00:30:17,050 --> 00:30:18,218
- He's a good guy,
and he loves you.
723
00:30:18,285 --> 00:30:19,720
- Definitely is.
- He completely loves you.
724
00:30:19,786 --> 00:30:21,421
- Well, Dave may be a good guy,
725
00:30:21,488 --> 00:30:22,556
and I believe that,
726
00:30:22,623 --> 00:30:25,959
But he's been
not totally honest
727
00:30:26,026 --> 00:30:29,763
and sort of
led her on for a long time.
728
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:30,931
- Right.
729
00:30:30,998 --> 00:30:32,266
- Well, here's a
weird question.
730
00:30:32,332 --> 00:30:33,534
- Yeah.
731
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,369
- As David, you are
attracted to women.
732
00:30:35,435 --> 00:30:36,770
- Yeah.
733
00:30:36,837 --> 00:30:39,573
- And when you're David,
and you're talking to June,
734
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,008
do you feel a sexual desire?
735
00:30:41,074 --> 00:30:42,809
- Yeah, as Dave.
736
00:30:42,876 --> 00:30:46,613
- So is there any
interest from David
737
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,785
to pursue any kind of romantic
relationship with June?
738
00:30:51,852 --> 00:30:53,287
- Of course.
739
00:30:53,353 --> 00:30:55,656
- Oh, there is. Okay.
- 20 years in the making.
740
00:30:55,722 --> 00:30:56,690
Yeah.
- Yeah.
741
00:30:56,757 --> 00:30:57,891
- You know?
742
00:30:57,958 --> 00:31:00,327
I mean, look at her,
she's beautiful.
743
00:31:00,394 --> 00:31:05,232
- Okay, well, obviously,
June, though, taking this all
744
00:31:05,299 --> 00:31:07,267
like a champ...
- Yeah.
745
00:31:07,334 --> 00:31:10,804
- I'm sure must be
feeling a lot of things.
746
00:31:10,871 --> 00:31:12,072
I know I am.
747
00:31:12,139 --> 00:31:13,307
But it's been
a long day of travel.
748
00:31:13,373 --> 00:31:14,374
- Mm-hmm.
749
00:31:14,441 --> 00:31:16,043
- This is just a
lot to take in.
750
00:31:16,109 --> 00:31:17,411
- Mm-hmm.
- So I think that now
751
00:31:17,477 --> 00:31:19,146
that the secrets
are out in the open,
752
00:31:19,213 --> 00:31:22,249
why don't we plan on
meeting back up tomorrow
753
00:31:22,316 --> 00:31:25,118
so you guys can talk more
and finally kinda...
754
00:31:25,185 --> 00:31:26,787
- All right.
That sounds like a plan.
755
00:31:26,854 --> 00:31:28,689
- Yeah.
- Yeah, I'd like that.
756
00:31:28,755 --> 00:31:30,190
- Yeah, I'd like that too.
757
00:31:30,257 --> 00:31:32,826
- No matter what happens
with you guys, going forward,
758
00:31:32,893 --> 00:31:34,761
honesty and communication
is always
759
00:31:34,828 --> 00:31:36,163
the most important thing.
760
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:40,167
- Okay, well, lovely
meeting both of you.
761
00:31:40,234 --> 00:31:41,702
- Nice meeting you too.
762
00:31:41,768 --> 00:31:42,870
- Yes.
763
00:31:42,936 --> 00:31:43,871
- It's real nice
to meet you, David.
764
00:31:43,937 --> 00:31:45,138
- Nice to meet you too.
765
00:31:45,205 --> 00:31:46,773
- I'm glad you guys
got to meet up.
766
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,275
- All right.
767
00:31:49,843 --> 00:31:51,778
- Well, I didn't
see that coming.
768
00:31:51,845 --> 00:31:53,747
- What are we to
make of all that?
769
00:31:53,814 --> 00:31:57,217
- I mean, the Denise thing,
that...that's shocking.
770
00:31:57,284 --> 00:31:58,919
- What do you think
this means, like,
771
00:31:58,986 --> 00:32:00,487
romantically for you guys?
772
00:32:00,554 --> 00:32:02,523
- Physically, do you
find David attractive?
773
00:32:04,958 --> 00:32:07,027
- Male persona, female persona.
774
00:32:07,094 --> 00:32:08,328
That doesn't bother me.
775
00:32:08,395 --> 00:32:11,431
But with Denise not
being into girls,
776
00:32:11,498 --> 00:32:13,133
that's going to keep it on...
777
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,868
- Right.
- The downside with that.
778
00:32:14,935 --> 00:32:19,039
- Sounds like Denise is
the primary personality
779
00:32:19,106 --> 00:32:21,775
and David is a secondary.
780
00:32:21,842 --> 00:32:24,444
Does that mean that there's
enough David for you
781
00:32:24,511 --> 00:32:26,346
to have a relationship with?
You know what I mean?
782
00:32:26,413 --> 00:32:28,315
Like, are you willing
to have a relationship
783
00:32:28,382 --> 00:32:32,119
with part of someone
784
00:32:32,186 --> 00:32:33,887
but not the whole someone?
785
00:32:33,954 --> 00:32:35,455
- Exactly.
786
00:32:35,522 --> 00:32:38,192
I got a lot to run
through my head tonight.
787
00:32:43,564 --> 00:32:44,765
- Hello.
- Good morning.
788
00:32:44,831 --> 00:32:47,000
- Good morning.
- Join me on the couch.
789
00:32:47,067 --> 00:32:48,035
- Sounds good.
790
00:32:52,306 --> 00:32:53,640
My mind's going all night.
791
00:32:53,707 --> 00:32:56,810
So there's a lot of
unanswered questions I have.
792
00:32:56,877 --> 00:32:59,179
Yesterday, I just
didn't want to react.
793
00:32:59,246 --> 00:33:03,417
I'd rather stop, think,
and then take action.
794
00:33:03,483 --> 00:33:07,354
And I have a couple ideas
of things I want to ask.
795
00:33:07,421 --> 00:33:12,693
One of them is, who's most
dominant, Denise or David?
796
00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:15,329
And I want to know what
Denise thinks of me
797
00:33:15,395 --> 00:33:17,431
on a personal level,
'cause I've obviously
798
00:33:17,497 --> 00:33:19,099
been around 20 years.
799
00:33:19,166 --> 00:33:20,701
- All right, well, it sounds
like you've got a lot to say.
800
00:33:20,767 --> 00:33:22,202
- Yeah.
- All right.
801
00:33:22,269 --> 00:33:24,638
- Let's rock and roll.
- Let's do it.
802
00:33:25,639 --> 00:33:30,143
- I just feel like there's
some other surprise waiting.
803
00:33:30,210 --> 00:33:32,279
- Okay.
- Well, here we go.
804
00:33:32,346 --> 00:33:33,680
- Let's do it.
805
00:33:38,051 --> 00:33:39,753
- [female voice] Hi.
- Hi.
806
00:33:39,820 --> 00:33:41,688
- Come on in.
- All right.
807
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:45,292
- Is this Denise?
- Yeah.
808
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:47,194
- Nice to see you again.
- Nice to see you again.
809
00:33:47,261 --> 00:33:50,898
- Good to see you.
- Ah, all right.
810
00:33:50,964 --> 00:33:52,566
How's everyone feeling?
811
00:33:52,633 --> 00:33:54,168
- All right.
812
00:33:54,234 --> 00:33:56,003
- I love the hair.
- Thank you.
813
00:33:56,069 --> 00:33:57,905
- This is generally
the vibe with Denise?
814
00:33:57,971 --> 00:34:02,409
- Mm-hmm.
- Well, got a lot of questions.
815
00:34:02,476 --> 00:34:04,678
But I just want to make sure
that I'm clear on everything
816
00:34:04,745 --> 00:34:06,146
that you told us yesterday.
817
00:34:06,213 --> 00:34:09,216
When you think about
yourself as Denise,
818
00:34:09,283 --> 00:34:11,885
that is who you are.
- Right. That's who I am.
819
00:34:11,952 --> 00:34:14,154
- That's your
authentic true self?
820
00:34:14,221 --> 00:34:15,155
- Right.
821
00:34:15,222 --> 00:34:16,623
- When you think
about David,
822
00:34:16,690 --> 00:34:17,958
so you think of David
as a character
823
00:34:18,025 --> 00:34:19,459
that you created
that represents
824
00:34:19,526 --> 00:34:21,862
perhaps some of your
feelings and interests?
825
00:34:21,929 --> 00:34:24,331
- I mean, David is a
character all his own.
826
00:34:24,398 --> 00:34:27,467
I mean, when...it's like
playing a part in a movie.
827
00:34:27,534 --> 00:34:30,270
You become the person
that you're portraying.
828
00:34:30,337 --> 00:34:34,575
So when I roleplay as being
David, I became David.
829
00:34:34,641 --> 00:34:40,681
- Sure, but when you're David,
do you love June and as David
830
00:34:40,747 --> 00:34:44,418
or do you feel
that across Denise?
831
00:34:44,484 --> 00:34:49,022
- As Denise, I'm not
attracted to women at all.
832
00:34:49,089 --> 00:34:51,058
- Okay, while we're
clearing things up,
833
00:34:51,124 --> 00:34:54,194
there is a David who
lives at this address.
834
00:34:54,261 --> 00:34:56,830
And so we were wondering, did
you register at this address
835
00:34:56,897 --> 00:34:59,433
to David in the past?
- Yes.
836
00:34:59,499 --> 00:35:02,002
- And when you started
portraying David, when you
837
00:35:02,069 --> 00:35:04,338
came up with the idea for
the character of David,
838
00:35:04,404 --> 00:35:07,808
what was kind of your beginning
interest in doing that?
839
00:35:07,875 --> 00:35:09,243
What was the draw?
840
00:35:09,309 --> 00:35:13,046
- Well, I started as,
um, the AOL chat rooms,
841
00:35:13,113 --> 00:35:15,082
and you're pretty
much anonymous,
842
00:35:15,148 --> 00:35:17,885
but I kept getting, like,
instant messages from all
843
00:35:17,951 --> 00:35:20,721
these men that wanted,
like, pictures
844
00:35:20,787 --> 00:35:22,322
and they wanted to
send me pictures.
845
00:35:22,389 --> 00:35:23,891
And that's not what
I wanted to do.
846
00:35:23,957 --> 00:35:29,730
So I put as my ASL, male,
and those instant
847
00:35:29,796 --> 00:35:31,798
messages stopped.
848
00:35:31,865 --> 00:35:33,834
- Right.
- That's how David was born.
849
00:35:33,901 --> 00:35:36,270
And that's why I created him.
850
00:35:36,336 --> 00:35:40,440
- And so you didn't create
the character because you were
851
00:35:40,507 --> 00:35:42,209
looking to roleplay as a man?
852
00:35:42,276 --> 00:35:43,844
- Right.
853
00:35:43,911 --> 00:35:46,280
- You weren't trying to explore
gender fluidity for yourself?
854
00:35:46,346 --> 00:35:47,614
- Exactly.
855
00:35:47,681 --> 00:35:51,919
My gender identity as
Denise is I'm female.
856
00:35:51,985 --> 00:35:53,320
And I like men.
857
00:35:53,387 --> 00:35:55,222
- And so what does
that mean for David?
858
00:35:55,289 --> 00:35:57,891
- I don't know.
- Is David dying off?
859
00:35:57,958 --> 00:36:02,729
- I mean, I don't see
the sense in keeping him.
860
00:36:02,796 --> 00:36:04,998
- What about June?
861
00:36:05,065 --> 00:36:07,801
I mean, yesterday,
you know, you were saying
862
00:36:07,868 --> 00:36:09,403
that David loves...I mean...
863
00:36:09,469 --> 00:36:11,338
- I mean, that...
that part is true.
864
00:36:11,405 --> 00:36:14,041
David loves June.
Always has.
865
00:36:14,107 --> 00:36:16,543
- But not enough
to keep David forever.
866
00:36:16,610 --> 00:36:19,046
- I wouldn't want that anyways.
867
00:36:19,112 --> 00:36:22,316
If it's not real,
I don't want it.
868
00:36:25,052 --> 00:36:28,088
Even though I know
David was made up,
869
00:36:28,155 --> 00:36:30,991
it's like losing
a friend of 20 years,
870
00:36:31,058 --> 00:36:33,594
that even though
it's not a real person,
871
00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:38,365
it feels like it is, you know?
872
00:36:38,432 --> 00:36:41,969
Bigger part of me wants to
say thank you for the support
873
00:36:42,035 --> 00:36:43,504
over the years.
874
00:36:43,570 --> 00:36:46,406
The other part says,
"I'll see you in hell."
875
00:36:46,473 --> 00:36:49,109
- I mean, I am sorry.
876
00:36:49,176 --> 00:36:53,814
I mean, it was...it was never
my intention to hurt you.
877
00:36:53,881 --> 00:36:56,149
- Whoops.
878
00:36:58,819 --> 00:37:00,187
- I don't think that...
879
00:37:00,254 --> 00:37:03,156
I don't think
that's a good enough apology.
880
00:37:03,223 --> 00:37:06,226
- Why didn't he just let me go?
881
00:37:06,293 --> 00:37:08,495
Why didn't he just let me go?
882
00:37:11,231 --> 00:37:14,868
- Do you ever feel like
you're a character
883
00:37:14,935 --> 00:37:16,370
that you've created?
884
00:37:16,436 --> 00:37:18,805
- I know...I mean,
I know who I am.
885
00:37:18,872 --> 00:37:21,241
And I'm aware
that, you know, all
886
00:37:21,308 --> 00:37:23,177
these characters
that I will play,
887
00:37:23,243 --> 00:37:25,045
I know that they're
all made up.
888
00:37:25,112 --> 00:37:26,680
I create them all.
889
00:37:26,747 --> 00:37:28,115
- Characters, plural?
890
00:37:28,182 --> 00:37:30,717
So you've been other
people besides David?
891
00:37:30,784 --> 00:37:35,289
- So, um, I wasn't really
honest about something.
892
00:37:37,791 --> 00:37:41,662
With Deedee, um...
893
00:37:41,728 --> 00:37:44,264
I created her.
894
00:37:44,331 --> 00:37:47,601
And when you spoke on the
phone, that was also me.
895
00:37:49,069 --> 00:37:51,171
None of that was true.
896
00:37:51,238 --> 00:37:54,208
- This voice change,
it seriously sounded like
897
00:37:54,274 --> 00:37:56,443
two different people.
898
00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:59,146
- Well, that's 20 years of,
you know...
899
00:37:59,213 --> 00:38:02,082
- Yeah. Of practice.
[sniffles]
900
00:38:02,149 --> 00:38:05,018
- Are there any
other characters or...
901
00:38:05,085 --> 00:38:08,922
- I mean, over the years, I've
created so many characters,
902
00:38:08,989 --> 00:38:10,390
not just David.
903
00:38:10,457 --> 00:38:14,828
But there was, um, Leo,
and Simon, and Gavin,
904
00:38:14,895 --> 00:38:17,064
and Denise, and Markese...
905
00:38:17,130 --> 00:38:18,532
- Wait, wait, wait.
Hold on a second.
906
00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:21,435
Are you saying that Denise,
who we are talking to
907
00:38:21,502 --> 00:38:25,572
is a character?
You are in a role right now?
908
00:38:25,639 --> 00:38:26,840
- Right.
909
00:38:26,907 --> 00:38:29,843
- So your legal name
is not Denise.
910
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:31,278
- Right.
911
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,415
- So then what is your name?
912
00:38:35,482 --> 00:38:37,885
- That's, uh...
- Okay, that's fine.
913
00:38:37,951 --> 00:38:40,153
You don't have to say anything,
but I'm...I'm putting
914
00:38:40,220 --> 00:38:41,421
it out there,
just for your sake.
915
00:38:41,488 --> 00:38:43,557
I just want to
make sure you know
916
00:38:43,624 --> 00:38:46,994
that Denise is also
a roleplay character
917
00:38:47,060 --> 00:38:51,532
of whoever's
underneath Denise.
918
00:38:53,867 --> 00:38:56,136
- Whew. [bleep].
919
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:01,775
- Sorry. I'm having a...
920
00:39:01,842 --> 00:39:03,911
hard time right now.
921
00:39:03,977 --> 00:39:06,446
June just poured her
heart out,
922
00:39:06,513 --> 00:39:09,650
explaining how devastating
this experience has been
923
00:39:09,716 --> 00:39:13,654
to find out that David hasn't
been real this whole time.
924
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:17,157
This is 20 years of an adult
relationship with a woman
925
00:39:17,224 --> 00:39:18,392
who has been nothing but...
- Wow.
926
00:39:18,458 --> 00:39:21,295
- Nice and kind to you,
927
00:39:21,361 --> 00:39:22,796
and she went to
all this trouble
928
00:39:22,863 --> 00:39:24,198
to come down here
to get the truth
929
00:39:24,264 --> 00:39:26,767
and you've told her
almost nothing true
930
00:39:26,834 --> 00:39:30,070
because you've been
talking to us as Denise.
931
00:39:33,173 --> 00:39:36,543
Well, it sounds to me
like this is it.
932
00:39:36,610 --> 00:39:38,111
- Yeah.
An ending of the chapter
933
00:39:38,178 --> 00:39:39,546
and closing a book.
- Yes.
934
00:39:39,613 --> 00:39:41,682
- Right.
- Okay.
935
00:39:41,748 --> 00:39:44,985
["Wicked Love" by
Naomi August playing]
936
00:39:45,052 --> 00:39:46,820
- You take care.
937
00:39:46,887 --> 00:39:49,056
- ♪♪ And I despise ♪♪
938
00:39:49,122 --> 00:39:52,159
♪♪ Your wicked love ♪♪
939
00:39:52,226 --> 00:39:53,861
- How you doing?
940
00:39:53,927 --> 00:39:55,162
- Feel empty.
941
00:39:55,229 --> 00:39:57,397
You know, it really sucks.
942
00:39:57,464 --> 00:40:00,267
I'm hollow inside right now.
943
00:40:00,334 --> 00:40:03,303
- Everything that you did
came from a place of love.
944
00:40:03,370 --> 00:40:05,239
You didn't do anything wrong.
945
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,942
- Thank you for that.
946
00:40:09,009 --> 00:40:12,112
Well, whoever she is, may she
find peace within herself.
947
00:40:12,179 --> 00:40:15,148
- ♪♪ Your ♪♪
948
00:40:15,215 --> 00:40:17,951
♪♪ Your wicked love ♪♪
949
00:40:18,018 --> 00:40:19,152
- Hey.
- Hi.
950
00:40:19,219 --> 00:40:20,420
- How you doing?
- Hey, yo.
951
00:40:20,487 --> 00:40:22,456
- What's been going
on since we filmed?
952
00:40:22,523 --> 00:40:25,626
Have you and David
been in touch?
953
00:40:25,692 --> 00:40:27,528
- Yes.
- Ah.
954
00:40:27,594 --> 00:40:30,397
And...and you're in touch
with David not Denise?
955
00:40:30,464 --> 00:40:32,533
- Right. When I left there,
956
00:40:32,599 --> 00:40:35,469
I had a lot of things I had to
process, and I went to bed.
957
00:40:35,536 --> 00:40:38,005
And when I woke up in the
morning, got a phone call.
958
00:40:38,071 --> 00:40:40,140
- Wow.
959
00:40:40,207 --> 00:40:42,276
- So we talked--we talked
for quite a while.
960
00:40:42,342 --> 00:40:45,946
And he told me that when he
saw me walk out that door,
961
00:40:46,013 --> 00:40:47,681
it was too much to take.
962
00:40:47,748 --> 00:40:51,251
And we've been talking
every day since.
963
00:40:51,318 --> 00:40:52,586
- I'm just confused.
964
00:40:52,653 --> 00:40:54,655
The last thing I remember
"David" saying
965
00:40:54,721 --> 00:40:58,058
was that he sort of was done
with the David character.
966
00:40:58,125 --> 00:41:00,928
- Now, you know, he says
he's David foremost,
967
00:41:00,994 --> 00:41:04,097
there's a lot that we
are working on together.
968
00:41:04,164 --> 00:41:06,466
Things don't progress
as we discuss it,
969
00:41:06,533 --> 00:41:09,436
then well, you know, I know
right where the door is.
970
00:41:09,503 --> 00:41:11,271
- I'm excited.
But I'm also a little wary.
971
00:41:11,338 --> 00:41:14,074
But you seem like you're
at a good sort of place
972
00:41:14,141 --> 00:41:16,977
with all of this, and you know
what you're getting yourself
973
00:41:17,044 --> 00:41:18,378
into now moving forward.
- Exactly.
974
00:41:18,445 --> 00:41:19,513
- Good luck with everything
and hope things
975
00:41:19,580 --> 00:41:20,848
work out the way
you want them to.
976
00:41:20,914 --> 00:41:23,450
- Yes. It was a real pleasure
meeting you guys.
977
00:41:23,517 --> 00:41:24,518
- Yeah.
- We'll talk soon.
978
00:41:24,585 --> 00:41:25,786
- All right.
- Good luck.
979
00:41:25,853 --> 00:41:26,920
- All right.
- Bye.
980
00:41:26,987 --> 00:41:27,955
- Hey.
- Hey, David.
981
00:41:28,021 --> 00:41:29,289
Good to see you.
982
00:41:29,356 --> 00:41:30,524
- Yeah, good seeing you too.
983
00:41:30,591 --> 00:41:32,092
- We just got off
with Motherwolff
984
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:34,428
and heard some unexpected
but, I think,
985
00:41:34,494 --> 00:41:36,029
good news about you guys.
986
00:41:36,096 --> 00:41:38,198
- Yeah, well,
we started talking.
987
00:41:38,265 --> 00:41:40,067
And we are officially
a couple now,
988
00:41:40,133 --> 00:41:41,902
online as well as offline.
989
00:41:41,969 --> 00:41:43,437
- Whoa. Okay.
990
00:41:43,504 --> 00:41:45,572
So does that mean that you plan
on becoming
991
00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:49,343
or identifying as David
in a more permanent way?
992
00:41:49,409 --> 00:41:51,345
- Oh, yeah, definitely.
993
00:41:51,411 --> 00:41:53,113
That means I get to spend
the rest of my life with her,
994
00:41:53,180 --> 00:41:54,781
I'm going to do that.
- Wow.
995
00:41:54,848 --> 00:41:59,553
- So yeah, what do you
think inspired that change?
996
00:41:59,620 --> 00:42:03,223
- I mean, basically, we really
love each other and meeting
997
00:42:03,290 --> 00:42:06,226
face to face after 20 years,
I think it just
998
00:42:06,293 --> 00:42:08,762
made our bond much stronger.
999
00:42:08,829 --> 00:42:12,900
- So what started out as a
roleplay character became much
1000
00:42:12,966 --> 00:42:15,102
more than that,
that you actually want
1001
00:42:15,169 --> 00:42:17,471
to live your life as a man.
1002
00:42:17,538 --> 00:42:19,306
- Yeah, exactly.
- Nice.
1003
00:42:19,373 --> 00:42:21,275
- Wow.
- As long as I can live
1004
00:42:21,341 --> 00:42:24,778
my life with June,
yeah, definitely.
1005
00:42:24,845 --> 00:42:26,079
- That's awesome.
1006
00:42:26,146 --> 00:42:28,081
- Yeah, I did not...
I mean, I really
1007
00:42:28,148 --> 00:42:30,417
didn't expect to hear this.
1008
00:42:30,484 --> 00:42:31,752
But I'm very happy
for you guys.
1009
00:42:31,818 --> 00:42:33,720
- Well, it was kind of
an unexpected for me too.
1010
00:42:33,787 --> 00:42:35,155
- I'm really happy
you guys were
1011
00:42:35,222 --> 00:42:36,890
able to get to the
truth of it all
1012
00:42:36,957 --> 00:42:38,659
and evolve it into something
that sounds better.
1013
00:42:38,725 --> 00:42:39,993
- Yeah, exactly.
- Hell, yeah.
1014
00:42:40,060 --> 00:42:41,128
- Good talking to you.
1015
00:42:41,195 --> 00:42:42,496
- Thank you, David.
- Bye.
1016
00:42:47,334 --> 00:42:50,237
[upbeat music]
1017
00:42:50,304 --> 00:42:57,211
♪♪ ♪♪
1018
00:43:19,933 --> 00:43:21,301
- CJ and I decided
to have a kid.
1019
00:43:21,368 --> 00:43:23,937
I had to screen the guy.
She knew when I ovulated.
1020
00:43:24,004 --> 00:43:25,806
She would be like, "You
need to meet up with him,"
1021
00:43:25,873 --> 00:43:27,841
and I would be like, "I don't
want to meet up with him."
1022
00:43:27,908 --> 00:43:29,877
- Honestly, this sounds
like a horror movie.
1023
00:43:29,943 --> 00:43:30,911
Oh!
- Holy [bleep].
1024
00:43:30,978 --> 00:43:33,380
- That's her.
- So creepy.
1025
00:43:33,447 --> 00:43:36,617
- Who knows what we're
getting ourselves into.
1026
00:43:36,683 --> 00:43:37,684
- CJ?