- ♪♪ MTV ♪♪
- With Carmella, maybe within like five minutes,
I felt, like, an instant connection, like it had been
someone I've been talking to for, like, years.
- What is she hiding?
What is this big lie that she's so afraid to tell him?
[phone chimes] both: Oh.
- Wow, she just sent a picture.
It's a picture of her.
"Nev and Kamie, I'm real." - Oh, my God.
[doorbell rings]
[suspenseful music]
Ooh!
- Hi.
- Hello.
[dramatic musical sting]
- All right. - Everyone was sick.
- On the last episode,
someone had a cold or whatever. - We were compromised.
- And it just tore through the crew.
- But we're on the mend.
- Neither cold nor flu
nor cough nor snot... - Mm-hmm.
- Shall keep these catfish catchers
from their appointed rounds.
- Let's do it. [both clap]
- Woo!
We got an email here.
"Dear Nev and Kamie, my name is William.
"I'm a roofing contractor living in Jonesboro, Arkansas.
"I've been talking to this girl named Carmella
"for about three months now.
She lives about two hours from me in Little Rock."
- ♪♪ So you want me to come too ♪♪
- "We met on Facebook Dating.
"And then we exchanged phone numbers and we started texting,
and then calling every day."
- ♪♪ What I need is for you to come closer to me ♪♪
♪♪ Can you give me some more clarity ♪♪
- "I'm constantly laughing and in a good mood
when we're talking."
This is what I felt like when I met Laura.
- Aww.
- "She makes me feel confident about myself,
"not just my appearance,
"but even if I'm having trouble at work or in life.
"Even though we have yet to meet, our feelings have grown
"stronger and stronger for each other.
"However, she says that because of past relationships,
"she's scared to meet in person.
"Any time I try to FaceTime, she always has an excuse.
If I bring it up too much, she can get upset."
- ♪♪ Can you tell me how you feel ♪♪
♪♪ 'Cause I don't know how you feel ♪♪
- "So I've tried to be patient and wait,
"but at this point it's been three months.
"I'm writing you to ask for your help to meet her.
"I feel like with a third party there
"she'll feel more safe meeting me.
"I just want to show her how much I care about her
and finally meet her. William."
All right. Well, sounds like we are needed.
See that? It's the cat signal.
The catfish logo is in the sky. - Yes.
- Let's call him up.
[line trilling]
- Hello, William.
This is Nev and Kamie. - Hey, William.
- How are things in Jonesboro?
- So OK, so Carmella,
would you say that like you guys are
fully dating at this point?
- Mm.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- Should we meet in Jonesboro
or should we meet in Little Rock?
Just--she says she's in Little Rock, right?
- All right, great. So we'll fly to Little Rock.
And we'll figure out a place to meet.
And we'll see you soon.
- See you soon, William.
- He doesn't think that there's anything fishy
about this relationship but he called us?
- Yeah. - It's a bad sign. Red flag.
- Look, the question here is,
does Carmella want
William to put a roof over her head
or is William living under a Little Rock?
- Let's go, please.
- ♪♪ I'm running ♪♪
♪♪ I don't know why ♪♪
- So here we are, Little Rock, Arkansas.
We're meeting William... - Mm-hmm.
- Who lives a couple hours outside of Little Rock.
- Yes. - But has agreed
to meet us in town, here, at his friend's house.
For three months, he's been talking to
this girl, Carmella.
But Carmella claims to have had
bad experiences in the past with men,
which has kept her from
making the time or effort to come see William.
- I'm not buying it.
- Which, yeah, doesn't sound very convincing.
- ♪♪ And don't look back ♪♪
- Well, we made it.
- ♪♪ Don't look back ♪♪
♪♪ ♪♪
- Oop. William. - Hello, hello.
- What's up, man? - Wow. What's up, man?
- How are you? - Good.
- Hi, William. - Hello.
- Y'all, go ahead and come in. - Still raining.
- Get out of that rain, ma'am. - Thank you.
[grunts] - Oh.
- I just wanted to say I appreciate your outfit.
I like that you wore a pink shirt,
you got your diamonds. - For sure.
I'm a little bit different than your--
your average country boy, for sure.
- Yeah. All right, so look.
Let's talk about Carmella. - Yes.
- Tell us the whole...story. - The whole story.
So about three months ago, we matched on Facebook Dating.
I actually remember seeing her picture and thinking,
"dang, she's bad."
And I thought, she'll never match with me.
But no, I'm gonna go ahead and swipe right.
And then like the next day,
she had swiped right too and we matched.
And I was like, OK, well you know,
I'm gonna message her now.
So then I went ahead and messaged her,
"hey, how are you?" Something like that.
She had a Snapchat. So I added her on Snap.
We talked on there for about a month.
She sent me pictures. You know, of course,
I still thought she was beautiful.
So I asked her out.
She told me, "I'm just not really ready
"for something like that.
Give me a couple of weeks and maybe I will be."
And I said, OK.
And then as we were talking, she kind of--
telling me how she was feeling depressed and stuff.
It just kind of hurt my heart 'cause I've--
I've been there before.
Like, I went through depression in my life
so, like I understand.
It's always good to have someone to talk to.
So I was like, "Hey, what's your number?
We should call sometime."
'Cause I was like, you know, maybe she ain't ready to
go out on a date, but maybe she'll be cool with talking.
And she said, "Yeah, for sure." So she sent me her number.
And we immediately called each other.
And that night, I called her about 10:00 p. m.
And we stayed on the phone till about 5:00 a. m.
- Wow.
- Maybe within like five minutes,
I felt like an instant connection, like it had been
someone I've been talking to for, like, years.
And that kind of became a nightly routine.
Like, I like talking to her so much that, like,
when I'm having a bad day at work, like,
that's what I want to do. Like, I want to go home.
I want to call her. I want to talk to her.
She'll hype me up.
But I've never really felt like in life, like,
I had someone that, like, cared about me
the way that she has.
- Wow.
What about her anxiety and depression?
Has she opened up to you about, like,
what has been the cause of that?
- She hasn't said directly,
but I feel like it's from past relationships.
I know that like, she's scared to just meet up with people.
And like any time--'cause I've been trying to meet up
for, you know, months.
But I've also tried to be understanding
'cause you know, you don't know everyone's battle
and what they're going through.
So I'm trying to be there for her.
I can't be there for her if she won't let me.
- Yeah. - And so,
if I bring it up too much though, she'll get mad
and we'll get into, like, an argument.
She may delete me on everything, block me.
- She's done that? - Yeah.
And then, like, within like an hour,
she'll go ahead and call me and be like,
"Babe, you know I just get upset.
"You know I wasn't gonna keep you blocked or nothing.
I'm sorry."
- So she's not ready to meet up.
But why not FaceTime?
- With the FaceTime, she'll usually say something like,
well, I don't have my makeup done,
or my hair's not done.
And it's like, I'm not that judgmental.
I like talking to you, not your makeup.
- But to be afraid to FaceTime with someone
that you're talking to three times a day
and all through the night... - Right.
- You have to admit something is--
- I mean, it's definitely sus.
I mean, we've been talking for three months.
And she tells me she has all these feelings for me,
but she doesn't want to meet.
Like, you can only wait for so long.
- Yeah.
Well, especially since you're not that
far away from each other. - Right.
- I want to see the pictures.
- Ooh.
Oh, she's sultry.
She's a sultry girl.
- Oh. - Mm-hmm.
I don't know about some of these, William.
She does cover the face in the body pictures.
Some of the body ones look like
they could be different brunette girls.
- Hard to say. - It's hard to say.
- And Carmella, what is her background?
- It's not an Arkansas name.
- She's--that's one of those things
I don't feel like it's my spot to tell,
but she's transgender. both: Oh.
- That's why her name is like that,
'cause she made her name. She legally changed it.
- OK. - Got it.
You should have just said that from the beginning.
- OK. Well, you know, so I like cis women,
but I also like trans women.
Like, I'm attracted to like the feminine side,
like, long, pretty hair, makeup, nails.
- You're a lover of women.
- Like I said, I just didn't know
if that's my spot to tell.
- It's understandable.
And--and it shouldn't make any difference.
But I do think in this context...
- It might, right. - It does.
- Mm. - 'Cause, like,
that would explain why someone in her situation
might be more hesitant.
- She's concerned about her safety, rightfully so,
in meeting somebody off the internet.
Obviously... - It can be scary.
- You have people who fetishize trans women,
and that can also be weird and scary.
But at the same time, she still might not be
the girl in the pics, right?
- Right.
- What if she's not the person in the photos?
- Like, you know, when you're building a relationship,
you want to build it on trust and loyalty.
And it's hard to build trust if someone's been lying to you
for three months. - Right.
- But you know, she could be telling the truth.
I want to be with her. I really like her.
- All right, well, email us whatever you have,
her social media accounts, her phone number.
- Got you.
- And then we'll figure out a plan.
- Appreciate it, man.
- All right, man.
Woo! - Wow!
- Y'all be safe out there.
- Let me tell you something, William.
This better be the girl in the pictures
'cause I am not risking my hair for this.
- Totally gonna be worth it. - It better be!
[rain pouring]
Go, Nev! - All right.
- Y'all be careful out there. Be safe.
- Oh! Oh, my God.
- There aren't a lot of things that would explain and justify
Carmella's behavior... - Mm-hmm.
- As effectively as her being trans.
- But could there be something else that
she's lying to William about?
- She could still be lying about the photos.
- Mm-hmm. I think that, William, he's a good egg.
I think he's been so patient with her.
- Yeah, he trusts her. They talk every day.
And if Carmella has been lying to him,
it's going to be devastating.
- Feeling good today.
Thanks. Woo!
Back to work.
How are you feeling today?
- I think a little better.
- I think we're on the mend. - Let's get into it.
William has been talking to Carmella for three months,
heavy talking. On the phone... - Big talk.
- Pretty much every day.
- Carmella says she's trans.
And through her experience,
she's dealt with some things that have made her feel unsafe
with meeting up with people, strangers,
that she's met online.
And William understands that, which I think is great.
But at the same time, why not video chat?
- Right. The question now is,
is Carmella the girl in the pictures
where we see her face,
and is the girl in the pictures where
we don't see her face the same girl?
- We are finding Carmella.
She's real. She's the girl in pictures.
- You're channeling good vibes,
manifesting love. - ♪♪ Wonder love ♪♪
- All right, I am ready.
We've got an email here from William.
"Hey, Nev and Kamie.
"Her full name, Carmella [bleep], 24.
Here's her phone number, and here are her socials."
Did he send the pictures? Oh, yeah.
Let's just go through these.
That's very filtered, right?
- Yeah, I mean, she's definitely using filters.
But who doesn't? - Yeah.
- First off, is this really the same girl
as the face shots?
- In the mirror pics? - Yeah.
- Look how different the phone is.
- Oh, yeah. I mean--
- They're all-- all different phones.
- Yeah. That is not the same girl.
- The full mirror pics are almost certainly
of different girls. - Yeah.
I want to see the Instagram.
- OK. Let's see this.
OK, no posts.
Carmella [bleep].
Is she tagged in anything?
No, she's not tagged in anything.
- She has like a TikTok and stuff linked on there.
- No videos. - No videos.
- We have a Facebook.
She uses the same avatar.
- No face, no trace.
- We could run some photos.
What do you think, this one?
Not a hit.
Let's try this next picture.
No hits on these.
- We didn't run the body ones though.
- All right, let's run some of these.
- Oh, right there! - Whoa, right there.
Oh, my goodness!
All right, so this is a picture on some Pinterest boards.
I'm sure the other ones probably are too.
Let's see. - Just as we suspected.
- Check this one.
Oh. - Right there.
- There it is.
All right, we now know Carmella is not the girl in
the sort of full body, no face pictures that she sent.
- Mm-hmm, yeah. - What else do we have?
We have a phone number. I guess we could search that.
Let's see.
Little Rock, Arkansas, one potential owner,
Carmella.
OK. Well, that checks out.
Let's just do a search for Carmella [bleep].
Here's a Twitter profile. There she is.
Oh, there's the pic.
William didn't send us this,
so I don't think he's seen this.
This looks like her, same avatar.
She talks about her anxiety a lot.
I mean, why hide this from him though?
- Mm-hmm.
- This all sort of matches up.
What is this, #edtwt?
- It's got to be eating disorder Twitter.
- Oh.
Wow, she tweets about it a lot. - Mm-hmm.
- It seems like Carmella is struggling with
an eating disorder of some kind.
- It makes sense if she's not feeling totally comfortable.
She hasn't been feeling comfortable in her own skin
for a while.
And it's hard to put yourself out there to meet somebody new
when you yourself don't feel comfortable.
- Right. I think we need to talk to William.
It's looking like Carmella is definitely named Carmella.
- Right. - We can probably also trust
that at least parts of her story,
her being trans, her background, is also true.
- Right. - What we can't prove
is if she's the girl in the pictures.
And I think we have to be somewhat suspicious of
whether or not she is because
we do know that the pictures she sent of her whole body
where you can't see her face
are definitely just off the internet.
- Only thing we can't confirm is the face.
- The face. - And William said
he couldn't be in a relationship with her
if she lied about something like that.
[soft music]
[knocking on door]
- Hey. - What's up?
How are y'all? - Hello.
- Come on in. - Yes, sir.
- Have a seat.
- What's going on? - I'm feeling a hunnid.
I'm interested in hearing what y'all found.
- All right, well, look, let's just sort of get into it.
First thing we did was we just looked through
her social medias you sent us. - Ah.
- There's nothing on much of them.
- Right. - So we thought, OK,
let's search her phone number. Let's see what comes back.
And her phone number comes back registered to Carmella.
So obviously, that seems good.
Then we just googled her name.
And we found a Twitter account.
Did you know she had a Twitter page?
- No, I don't have Twitter, so I never, like, got on it.
- Got it. Well, she does.
One thing that we noticed,
she talks a lot about disordered eating.
And she specifically uses a hashtag, #edtwt,
which is eating disorder Twitter.
It's a community of people who are struggling with
eating disorders and they kind of support each other.
But has she ever talked to you about struggling with,
or having previously had an eating disorder?
- She talks about feeling bad for people like that.
But she's never said like, "I personally have problems."
- Seeing that, it also made sense to us
if she is struggling with this,
that's part of the reason
why she hasn't wanted to meet up with you
because she's still working through some things.
- Dealing with these problems. Right.
- Then what we did was
we looked up pictures of her face.
None of them came back with any direct hits.
So that's good.
However, when we do an image search
for the pictures of her in the mirror,
we do get hits.
So this picture, we found on some Pinterest board.
And this one on a bunch of websites.
While we still can't prove the pictures of her face are her,
we can't find that person anywhere else,
but the pictures of her body are almost certainly not her.
It looks as though
pretty much everything you know about Carmella is true
but she's not the person in the photos.
[soft music]
- I mean, you know, it kinda-- kinda makes me sad, you know?
♪♪ ♪♪
If she doesn't look the same,
then I feel like, you know, she lied to me.
You got to build a relationship on trust and loyalty.
And you can't do that if someone's
lying to you all the time.
But still, I want to meet her.
- So now, I mean, I guess our next thing is
trying to delicately talk to her
about meeting you in person.
- This would be the time.
- We should probably be a little delicate because
you've tried to meet her a bunch of times already,
and she's claimed to be too anxious.
I don't think our strategy needs to be
to get her to come clean
or tell some truth to us before meeting you.
It should just be, hey, we want to create
a safe environment for you to feel comfortable
- So she doesn't feel pressured and stuff.
- Right. - Right.
- So I guess I could just call and see if she picks up.
[line trilling]
- Hello. Is this Carmella?
- Hey, Carmella. This is Nev from "Catfish."
And I'm sitting here with your friend William.
We are here because William was hoping that we could help
create a scenario in which you would feel comfortable
and safe to finally meet up with him.
- He really just thought that our platform would be
a good place for you guys to finally meet.
And he was hoping that perhaps our assistance
would make you feel more comfortable.
- Wait. Is there like a specific reason you can't meet?
Because we don't know everything, I guess, or--or--
- Right.
- Totally understand that.
- We're really more reaching out--
[call ends]
- OK.
- If she's still Carmella,
she says who she says she is,
she just doesn't look exactly the same,
then I feel like, you know,
she may have to regain my trust,
but it could still work.
- I don't know, William. I wouldn't get my hopes up
that she's telling the truth, you know?
And there is a chance that you may never meet this girl.
- Right.
- Are you OK with that?
- I've already spent three months and I really like her.
I want to be with her, but I can't do it
if she won't let me.
So, you know, I kinda made my move.
Now the ball's in her court.
- If she is mostly telling the truth
but she isn't ready,
will you wait?
Or do you think you'll have to kind of open yourself up
to meeting someone else? - Moving on?
I like her but I can't force somebody
to meet me or be with me. - Right.
[phone chimes] both: Oh.
Wow, she just sent a picture.
It's a picture of her.
"Nev and Kamie, I am real. Heart, Carmella."
- What?
- Oh, my God. It's her!
[phone chimes] both: Oh.
- She just sent a picture of her.
"I'm real. Heart, Carmella." - What?
- Oh, my God. It's her!
I mean, is there any way that this is somehow faked?
How would she have done that so fast?
- Yeah.
- If that is her,
why would she send us pictures of other girls' bodies?
- I think considering the other things
that she's dealing with that she's talked about,
it makes sense that she's not completely comfortable
with her body right now to send full body pictures.
- Yeah.
Well, we should probably respond, right?
I mean, what should we say?
- Can I give it a try?
- "Hey, Carmella, William is really excited
"and looking forward to the possibility of meeting you.
"We would love to help make that happen.
"Please think about it and let us know
"if there's anything we can do
"to make you feel more comfortable.
"We are currently in Little Rock and willing to meet you
whenever/wherever is best for you. Heart."
Sound good to you, William? - Yeah.
- OK, sent.
- Now let's see what she says.
- Right. [phone chimes]
- Oh. That was fast.
"I care about him, but I lied in a big way.
"I don't think I can ever face him.
Sorry."
- Well. "I lied in a big way."
- Should I mention the pictures at this point,
that we know it's not her body?
- I mean, I hope that's what she's talking about.
- Well, that's what I mean.
Like, so, I could say like, at this point,
all we know that you lied about
are the photos...
- The photos you used of someone else's body.
Is there something else?
- Oh, she's typing. She's typing.
Oh, she stopped.
I think that might be all we're getting from her right now.
We'll wait and see if she gets back to us.
- Gotcha.
- You let us know if you hear anything.
We'll let you know if we hear anything.
- If she's ready to meet, then great.
But I'm not gonna wait forever if nothing's coming from it.
- Fingers crossed.
[tense music]
- See you, William. - I'll see you.
Y'all be safe. - Thank you.
- I can't believe she just sent that picture.
That was crazy! - I know.
- What is she hiding?
What is this big lie that she's so afraid to tell him?
♪♪ ♪♪
[mellow electronic music]
[knocking on door]
- Good morning.
Have a seat.
- Update.
Just got a voice note from our girl.
Check this out.
- Good news is, Carmella confirmed that
her feelings for William are very real.
- That's a plus. - Which is great.
But there is something going on that she's super nervous about.
- What could it be? [phone chimes]
- Oh, she sent her address. - Oh.
- She's 23 minutes away. - OK.
- "Thanks. We will head over soon."
Well, let's just call William and let him know.
[line trilling]
- We just got a voice note from Carmella.
She confirmed that all the things she's told you
and all the feelings that she's expressed to you are real,
but that there is something she's worried to tell you.
But she wants to meet you.
And she even then texted us an address.
- OK. So can you just meet us over here at the hotel
and head over there together?
- All right, great.
We'll see you downstairs in a little bit.
- See you soon.
Look at our guy. - There he is.
- Hello. - How are you?
- Good to see you.
- Good to see you too.
- How are you doing?
- Just ready to meet Carmella and see what she has--
what surprise she has waiting for me.
- Same.
- Get in the "Car-a-mella."
- [laughs] - Yes, sir.
- And away we go.
- I'm very, very curious in finding out
what Carmella has to tell you.
- I am too.
What is it that's so bad that she couldn't tell me?
It depends on how big the lie is,
if we can recover, if we can actually be something.
- Mm-hmm.
It's an old neighborhood.
This is the street.
63's--
- I think it's that one.
- All right. Well.
- Are you ready? - I feel like I've been nervous
for the last three months, so, you know,
now's the time. Let's do it.
- Let's do it.
You guys can wait here.
I'll check it out.
[tense music]
♪♪ ♪♪
[doorbell rings]
♪♪ ♪♪
[whispers] I rang the doorbell.
[door creaks open]
- Ooh!
- Hi. - Hello.
- [whispers] I can't see.
- Come on out.
[tense music]
♪♪ ♪♪
[doorbell rings]
♪♪ ♪♪
[whispers] I rang the doorbell.
[door creaks open]
- Ooh!
- Hi.
- Hello.
- [whispers] I can't see.
- Come on out.
♪♪ ♪♪
Yeah, yeah. - Hey.
Hey. - [mumbles] We got your--
- Oh.
- How's everything going? - Good. How are y'all?
- Good. - Good, I'm Kamie.
- Nice to meet you. Carmella. - Nice to meet you too.
- Will. - Nice to meet you, Will.
Carmella. - Nice to meet you too.
- All right. Happy to meet you.
- Nice to meet y'all. [chuckles]
- Um, obviously, you're not the girl in the pictures.
- Right. - Is that--
why don't you kind of explain the situation.
- Well, of course, like, the body pictures
were fake, of course. - OK.
- The face pictures were me.
They're just very edited with FaceApp.
- Wow. OK, so that photo you sent in the car
and all the other face shots, those are all you?
- Right, right. - [stammers]
And that's primarily the issue that
you were concerned about revealing.
- Right.
- But surely, I mean, having talked to him
for the last three months so much,
and him being so open minded and accepting
from what I understand, of everything you've told him,
don't you think he might have handled that better
if you told him the truth early on?
What was it that you thought would be
so hard for him to accept about you?
- Um, mostly my weight.
It wasn't my intention to lie.
I was just going through a really rough breakup.
And after that, I just started catfishing guys for attention.
- Guys, plural? - Yeah.
Kind of a little attention whore, I guess.
- There were other guys you were talking to
that you met online?
- I mean, I've probably talked to like 5,000, 6,000 guys.
- Whoa, whoa, whoa. - Wait, what?
5,000 or 6,000?
- Thousand. - Wow.
So you just--just through different dating apps,
or primarily Facebook, or-- - Um, Tinder, mostly.
- OK, so you talk to them to get attention?
- Just attention when I'm bored. - Just for fun?
They just send me like money and stuff.
- Oh. - How much money?
- In the past year, I've probably made
$10,000, $15,000.
- So this isn't just about your weight or insecurity,
because it sounds like a lot of those guys
you're kind of scamming.
- I guess.
I mean, I don't like tell them we're
gonna be together or [bleep] or anything for the money.
Like, so I feel like they shouldn't have
very high expectations.
If you're gonna send a random bitch on Snapchat money,
I mean--
- So at the time that you met William,
you were flirting with lots of guys.
So Will was essentially a target
that you were like, oh, he's another cute boy.
I'll send him all these hot pictures,
and I'll eventually get money from him, right?
I mean, that was-- - Right.
- But I don't send money online.
- Well, no. But did she ever ask for it?
- No.
- Are you talking to any of those people now?
'Cause that's a lot of people to be talking to.
- No, ever since me and him started talking,
I've pretty much cut everybody else off,
any other guys.
Like, my feelings for him are real.
- That's a little hard to believe though,
given what you just told us.
- Right, right.
- If that's true,
what was different about Will that prevented you from
taking it to the sort of, oh, I want to ask him for money
like all these other hundreds of thousands of guys?
- Well, I mean, once we, like, started talking on the phone,
it just--we just clicked.
I felt like I liked his sense of humor.
We had the same kind of taste in music and movies
and stuff like that.
And he didn't treat me like an object.
So I think that makes him really, really special,
being able to treat me the way I want to be treated,
like a normal girl.
- So is everything else that you've told him true
in terms of what's going on in your life?
- Yeah, everything else is true.
- We found your Twitter.
And we see that you talk a lot on there
about eating disorders.
Is that something that you struggle with?
- Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I've struggled with that pretty much my entire life,
but especially after the breakup
with my last boyfriend.
- Is it something that you are in recovery for currently
or hoping to be?
- Hoping to be.
- What are you hoping to get out of
this relationship with William?
Like, what would you want, ideally?
- I mean, ideally, like, if he ended up trusting me,
definitely like a relationship.
- I mean...
[sighs] I liked you so much.
But you lied this long.
And I believed you,
which makes me seem kind of foolish
that you could lie to me about other things.
- Right. I think that's understandable.
- I just wish you would have been honest.
The whole scamming thousands of men, like,
that's really hard to hear. Like, that's really damaging.
- I'm sorry.
I mean, at the end of the day, like,
I just want you to be happy,
even if you're not with me.
But I would definitely want to be with you.
- I'm willing to try to get to know the real you.
But I definitely don't want to rush into nothing.
- I got you.
- All right, well, why don't you go inside.
We're gonna just hang back here for a minute
and just check in with William
and then we'll come in in a few?
- OK, sounds good. - OK, yeah.
- ♪♪ Why is loving you so hard ♪♪
♪♪ ♪♪
♪♪ Why is letting go the hardest ♪♪
- Are you attracted to her?
- I don't know. I mean,
it's hard for me to even think about her physical appearance
and me being attracted to her physical appearance
because I feel so unattracted that she's been lying.
- If that's how you feel, I don't want you to go in there
being the sweet, compassionate person you are
and give her the impression that
she can earn your trust back
and then you're good to go. - Right.
- ♪♪ I tried to hold on so tight ♪♪
♪♪ But you left when I needed you most ♪♪
- I mean, the scamming thousands of men, like--
- It does raise the concern of, like,
when someone gets that comfortable lying--
- That they could do it all the time.
- Right. That it might be hard to sort of--
- Come out of that. It's like lying is like nothing to her.
- ♪♪ Now it's too late ♪♪
- Yeah.
- The only thing that I think's really gonna matter to her
is hearing from you that
her behavior has changed the way you see her.
- Right.
- That's important for her to know.
- ♪♪ And now it's too late ♪♪
- Just make sure she knows how you really feel.
- Right.
[soft music]
♪♪ ♪♪
- Come on in.
Make yourselves at home.
♪♪ ♪♪
- [sighs]
All right, so I do think we need to figure out
what moving forward for you guys looks like
so that everyone's clear what to expect.
- OK.
I mean, if I didn't care about you,
I wouldn't have came on here to meet you
when I'm so embarrassed and so disgusted by, like,
the way I look and my weight,
and if I look, like, too manly
or my insecurities. - But you don't though.
- Like, my last boyfriend, the one that, like,
I started lying after we broke up, the last thing
he said to me was, "Are you really gonna leave?
Do you think a guy is gonna want to be with
a fat-ass tranny?"
And I mean, that has just, like, stuck with me.
[crying] And that's something I just haven't dealt with
or healed from yet.
And that's kind of why I've, like, created
this, I guess, persona online
to, like, cope with feeling that way.
And having somebody you love tell you something like that
is just--it really sucks.
So that's why I started, like, doing what I've been doing,
just to, like, cope with it.
And that's why I've been scamming guys.
Like, why not when that's the way I'm treated by them?
- What's kind of your experience been like
transitioning in a place like Arkansas?
- Hell.
[soft emotional music]
Um...
the people, of course, haven't been the nicest.
I grew up in, like, a super religious home.
I feel like I was basically taught growing up
to, like, hate myself.
[sobs]
I'm sorry.
♪♪ ♪♪
- It's--it's been hard for you.
- Right.
That's why, like, with him, I feel like it's different.
But I, like--
I wouldn't have came on here
if I didn't genuinely care about you
and have feelings for you.
- I'm glad you did. I'm glad we finally got to meet.
I just wish you could've been honest with me from the get-go
'cause I love the person that you are.
Like, I love the way we talk.
I love the way we laugh, the music.
But... [sighs]
The scamming thousands of men, that really scares me
because it's like,
almost like lying has become easy to you.
And so--
not the way you look,
but the fact of all the lying
has made me feel less attracted towards you.
And that--that's really--
that--that's really hurt me.
- I think that's understandable.
And I'm sorry.
- And I forgive you.
I'm just--just really hurt.
♪♪ ♪♪
[sighs]
Still, after all this, I don't want to block you.
I don't want to kick you out of my life or nothing.
I think we could be friends.
And if you're having these problems with depression
or anything like that, I'll be there for you.
- Same to you.
- And I appreciate that.
- This is a good place to leave it.
We'll say goodbye and we'll head out.
♪♪ ♪♪
- Thank you. - Yes, ma'am.
♪♪ ♪♪
- I look forward to building our friendship.
- For sure. Me too.
- All right, well, look.
You are a good person.
And you've been through some [bleep].
I don't think you are someone that wants to
or looks for opportunities to take advantage of people.
You made mistakes, and I feel hopeful
that's all now in your past.
So I just don't want you to think that somehow
we see you as this, like, dark, evil person,
'cause you're very clearly not.
- Thank you.
- And you deserve good things.
- Yeah, and you do. You really do.
- Yeah.
♪♪ ♪♪
- It was nice meeting you. - You too.
- It was good to meet you.
- Appreciate y'all.
- Take care of yourself.
- You're so pretty. - Oh, so are you.
- It was nice meeting you. - You too.
- Y'all be safe. - We will.
- Thanks for having me over.
- Thank you.
- ♪♪ Life became an ocean that I'm sinking in ♪♪
♪♪ ♪♪
- Well?
What's next for you?
- ♪♪ To a never-ending sad song ♪♪
- I guess I'll just go back out there and see
what's out there for me and stuff like that, but...
[sighs] Maybe stay off Facebook Dating.
- I have a feeling you're gonna be just fine.
- I really appreciate that, man.
That was really solid.
- ♪♪ Turn back time ♪♪
♪♪ ♪♪
- Sup? - Hey!
- Hey, William.
- What's up, Will? - What's up?
- Anything from Carmella since we saw you?
- Uh, so we've remained friends.
And we talk occasionally.
But we don't talk nearly as much as we used to.
- That's understandable.
There's no flirtation or romance there anymore
or is there? - No.
- And is that on your part or is that on her part?
- I would say a little bit of both.
- You guys are cool? - Yep.
- And what about you? Have you met anyone else?
- I've went on a few dates.
But I'm kinda just playing the field,
seeing where it takes me.
Wanna make sure I make the right choice this time.
- Play the field, date around, enjoy.
- All right, well, nice to see you.
- Nice to see y'all too.
- Bye. - Y'all have a good one.
Nice talking to y'all.
- Hey! - Hi, Carmella girl.
- How are y'all? - What's up?
- We're good. How are you?
- Um, things are good.
I've just honestly been chilling,
staying off social media.
I actually deleted my accounts.
- Well, that's a huge deal.
- You had a lot of accounts. - Yeah. [laughs]
I just kind of, you know, reflected afterwards
and realized just 'cause someone hurt me,
I don't have to go out and hurt other people.
- Yeah.
- I think this was definitely a step forward, for sure.
- Are you dating, seeing anyone?
- Um, not right now, no.
At this point, I need to just worry about
getting myself together.
- Well, we really enjoyed meeting you.
Hopefully this experience has course-corrected you towards
a happier version of yourself.
- Thank you. I really appreciate you guys.
- I like the side pone.
Cute. - [laughs]
- Bye, Carmella. Thank you. - Yeah, nice to see you.
- Bye. Good seeing you. - Bye.
♪♪ ♪♪