- ♪♪ MTV ♪♪
- Nick talking to England.
- He's just different than other guys.
Like, he actually cares and listens to me.
- All these catfish always be using fake phone numbers.
I think it's time for us to make our own Text App number.
- We are catfishing the catfish.
- Nev and Kamie are on the phone with me.
Do you want to meet up?
[line beeping]
- Where are we going?
Oh, [bleep].
- I'm not going in there.
This is caution. It says, "Don't go."
Get that aggression out. Ooh!
It's always something on this show.
What the [bleep]?
What?
[both scream] You [bleep]!
I hate you. I hate you.
This is bad manifestation.
No.
- Very well thought out and planned.
- I had some help, I had--
- Not my love life.
It's men that suck, not my love life being dead.
- [laughs]
Okay. Let's see what we got.
"Hi, Nev and Kamie.
My name is Nick."
- ♪♪ I've been looking all around the world ♪♪
- "I'm 25, and I live about an hour
"outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
"I'm in an odd situation, and I'm hoping you can help me out.
"A little over a month ago, I met a guy named England
"on a gay dating app.
"When we started talking, I got excited.
♪♪ ♪♪
"He didn't have a profile picture,
"but we exchanged numbers and started texting right away.
"He sent me a photo, and I was all in.
"He said he lived in the area and was looking
"for a serious relationship,
which is exactly what I'm looking for."
- ♪♪ You're the only one that I want ♪♪
- "We made plans to meet a week later,
but when the time came, he ghosted me."
- Oh, boy.
- ♪♪ Far and wide ♪♪
- "He eventually called me and said
"he was visiting a former client in D. C.
"because she was lonely.
"As far as I know, he cleans houses.
So this made no sense to me."
- Cleans houses. - That's--err--
- "When I asked if he was some kind of sugar baby,
"he said he wasn't.
"The whole conversation was super weird.
"Since he's come back, we still haven't met or video chatted.
"There must be something he's hiding.
"Hoping for the best, but been burned before.
"I hope you can help me figure this out.
Thanks! Nick."
The good news is this relationship's only
been going on a few months. - Yeah.
- So Nick's not too far in.
- Let's give Nick a call.
[line trilling]
- Hello? Is this Nick?
- Hey, Nick. It's Nev. - And Kamie.
- We just read your email, and now we're
trying to figure out what the heck's
going on with this England guy.
- It sounds like you need our help
if you're gonna track this guy down.
- All right. Well, I have so many questions,
but let's do that in person.
We can head out to you
and we'll see what we can figure out.
- See you soon.
- All right. Bye
- I haven't been to Pittsburgh. - Let's do it.
- ♪♪ I love you ♪♪
- We've got a snowy one for you, folks.
- Whoo. Chilly.
- This is a charming little neighborhood.
- Yeah. A nice very, like, American classic
homeland vibe place. - About to find out.
- Here we are. - Move it.
- Ahh! - [laughs]
- Get away from me. You know my hair is straight.
Stop it! - [laughs]
- I have a blowout, Nev. Stop playing.
- Hi, guys. - Hey!
- Hi. - How are you?
- Oh. What's up? We were having a snow fight.
- Yeah. No, we weren't. It was a one-way fight.
- It was an assault. - Welcome to the Burgh, guys.
- Thank you. - Hey, hey, what's--
I don't know who you are. - Hi. I'm Michaela.
I'm Nick's sister. - Oh, what's up?
- Nice to meet you. - I'm Nick.
Nice to meet you. - They look exactly alike.
- Nice to meet you. - Hi, Kamie.
- I'm Kamie. Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you. - I'm a hugger.
- We can take you in our house here.
- Yeah. Let's go. - Won't keep you out
in the cold too long.
- It's cozy in here.
- Ohh. Ooh.
So wait, so Michaela, you obviously know why we're here.
- Yes. - What have you heard about
your brother's interesting online relationship?
- Pretty much the basics, not too in-depth--
that this guy claims to live in Greensburg as well.
- Which is a small town. No? - It's, like,
you could get anywhere in Greensburg
within, like, 10 to 20 minutes. - Wow.
- That was kinda, like, my red flag right there.
- Yeah. How many guys in Greensburg are on Grindr?
It's probably not that many, right?
I mean-- - Like 20, 20 to 50, maybe.
- So that's not a lot. - Yeah.
- Somewhere around there, and the further
you go down, the farther they get away.
- Right.
- He's originally from Pittsburgh,
and he told me he just moved to Greensburg
and got an apartment. - Aha!
So you go on Grindr, and you must've been like,
ooh, some new gay guy's in town, great.
- Yeah. - Right? I mean--
- Well, actually he just messaged me
out of the blue, but his profile was blank.
Like, no picture. So--
- No picture. - Yeah.
That's very like Nick.
So Nick definitely gives people the benefit of the doubt.
- Okay. So he messages you and says what?
- "Hey." - "Hey."
And then I said, "Hey." And then we talked about
what we were looking for, and I wanted to look
for, like, a long-term relationship.
He wanted the same thing.
- Right. 'Cause as I understand,
especially Grindr, often it's just people looking to hook up.
- Hooking up. All the time. It's just--
- So you guys kind of immediately were just like,
let's be clear, I don't--
I'm not here just to hook up. - Yes.
- I'm looking for a relationship,
and you thought, oh great, me too.
- And then we directly moved to texting after that.
- And he texted you a picture. - Yes.
- Tell us about him. Does he work?
Is he in school?
- He said he owns a cleaning company.
So he does cleaning services.
He rarely texts me, but he's always calling me.
- That's good. So you heard his voice.
- Yes. Yeah.
- And you guys, like, talked a lot,
like, how does that-- how did that go?
- A lot. We talked all day, and then we talked,
like, every day for a week.
- So things got, like, intense quick.
- Intense, yeah. He's just different than other guys.
Like, he actually cares and listens to me.
My dad, he passed a year ago,
and usually I don't open up to people
about that stuff right away.
I felt like I could open up to him easily.
And he was very understanding about it
and very caring about it.
- Sorry to hear about your dad, though.
- Thank you. - That must have been
really, really rough. - Mm-hmm.
I can see why that relationship then would mean a lot to you
and how things can move really, really fast when you're talking
to somebody about the most intimate details of your life
and, like, where you are emotionally.
Like, that's-- it's always good to have.
- Very important to have.
- Do you guys talk ever about, like, past relationships?
- We do.
He actually just got out of a relationship
when we started talking, and it was a very bad one.
- What about you?
What's your past relationship history?
- Uhh, not good.
My first boyfriend, I met online
and moved to live with him,
but that ended very, very badly.
He actually stabbed me in my leg.
- Are you [bleep] kidding me?
- No, he stabbed me in my leg.
I have, like, scar from it. I had to get stitches.
- What kind of--what--why? What--what?
- It's crazy. Just very abuse--
He was very abusive. - And we don't think
there's any chance that England could be this ex-crazy.
- No, not at all.
- No. - Their voices
are totally different. - How long were you
in a relationship with this guy?
- Oh, my gosh. - Two years.
- Two years, yeah. - Wow.
- And that's what I learned my lesson, you know,
like, don't rush into it like that.
- Wait a second. Hold on.
You're a guy who says he learned a lesson
about not rushing into things. - Yes.
- You meet a guy on Grindr who has no name or profile picture.
And after two months of texting,
you're already thinking this is a serious relationship.
It seems like you moved a little fast.
- So here-- if I can explain it.
Me personally, like, I don't--I feel like
I'm wrong if I'm talking to multiple guys at once.
- Did you talk about being exclusive?
- Yeah, we did.
So I focus on England, and I just want to see
if this is going to work out.
If you understand where I'm coming from.
- No, I do. I'm a serial monogamist.
- But hold on a second.
There's a difference between being a monogamist
and being played, 'cause he still won't meet.
- We were talking about meeting up, like, having a little date.
- Why didn't it happen?
- Well, he just ghosted me for a couple of days.
He called me to tell me, like, crazy story, why he ghosted me.
He said he had to go visit a former client in D. C.,
but it's weird to me because she's a 60-year-old lady.
And I asked, like, what do you do when you go there?
And he said, we drink wine together.
And to me personally, like, if she was a former client
of yours, I don't think you should be having
this strange friendship where you
drink wine with her.
And his clients, they're all, like, elderly women.
And I asked him, I said, "Well, are you a sugar baby?
Like, are you cleaning her house in your underwear"
or something like that?"
- It's a valid question. - Mm-hmm.
- And he's like, "haha," He's like, "Don't say that. LOL."
- That's strange, but it's a lot.
- Sure. Sure. - I felt like either
he's not who he says he is,
or he's--there's something he's not telling me.
- Is his Facebook page robust and sort of legit?
- No, he doesn't have a lot of interaction.
Like, he only has pictures of himself.
- Hollow. - And it feels hollow.
- What about any other social media?
- He doesn't have any other social media.
- Why haven't you FaceTimed or video chatted?
- I never asked him, but at the same time,
he never asked me anything.
- Okay. - Show us his Facebook page.
- Oh.
We've got chocolate.
[laughter]
Okay.
This is a friendly smile.
- Yeah. He's always worried about how he looks,
he tells me, and I tell him,
like, you don't have to be worried.
Like, I understand self-confidence issues
'cause I have them too.
- Not a lot of likes, though.
- That's what I was wondering, too.
The interactions. You think there'd be
a little more interaction.
- All right, so look, there's a lot of questions about England.
A bunch of them are about what he does.
If his cleaning company is really a cleaning company.
If it's something else. If it's a weird sort of
cover for perhaps some-- - Anything.
- Right. There's also obviously
some questions about his identity
'cause we haven't confirmed that he is
the person in the pictures. - Correct.
- But you're invested already in this guy.
- Yes. - You're super interested--
- Very invested. - Finally meeting,
and pursuing a serious relationship.
- Correct. - All right.
Well, we've got our work cut out for us.
- See ya. - Oh, bye, Kamie.
It was nice meeting you. - We'll see you later.
- I'll see you later. - [sighs]
- I like Nick. - Yeah.
- What a sweetie.
- Nick's in a tough emotional place.
He's got a lot going on.
He's dealing with a lot of loss.
He was in an abusive relationship
I don't think he's probably fully recovered from.
- Yeah. But also his dating pool is this big.
- Right. Obviously, if I had to guess,
I'd say he's not the guy in the pictures,
but I just really hope that whatever we discover
is good news because I don't think Nick
can handle any more bad news.
- Well, we have got a live one. All right.
Nick talking to England.
They got really close 'cause they both said
they were looking for serious relationships.
They live in the same place.
Also, Nick's had a really rough five years.
- Yeah. - He meets this guy,
and he thinks, "Oh, my God,
"finally, someone gets me.
"Can't wait to go out with him.
Oh, he ghosts me."
And then he gets this weird story about a client
who needed him that was lonely.
The whole thing is weird. We gotta figure this out.
Here we go. "Dear Nev and Kamie.
"These are the things I know about England.
"His last name is Gatewood.
"He's 28 and originally from Pittsburgh.
"He moved to Greensburg about two months ago.
"Here's his phone number, which is a Pittsburgh phone number.
"Here's his Facebook.
"I can't tell you how much I appreciate
everything you're doing for me. Nick."
So we're here. Let's open his Facebook up
so we have some pictures.
Oh, man. I didn't see this-- this banner pic before.
Is that, like, that's him?
- That's not him. Oh, that's him.
- Yeah. That's him with, like, three other dudes.
- Wow. - Dressed up nice.
Certainly, this photo is giving me
less like a guy with a cleaning company
and more like business associates,
corporate job vibes.
- Yeah. - Right.
- No, I agree. I feel like maybe
we should save that picture and run it.
- Take this picture, too.
All right. So we've got all the pictures.
Should we search 'em? - Let's do it.
- Let's start with this profile pic.
Searching. Searching.
Great. No matches for that one.
- Hmm.
Big money, big money, big money, big money.
[imitates sad trombone]
- I'd like to try and figure out
who's in that picture on the steps.
What if I just, like, try and facial recognition search on--
- PimEyes. - PimEyes.
Come on, find the faces.
- Oh! - Oh, I found one of the guys.
Bingo! We got to hit.
Man, this website's incredible.
- This website's [bleep] scary.
- All these years. Board members.
It's a law office's site, and here's that guy
that's next to England in the photo.
- Patrick [bleep]. Scroll down.
- What? Oh, for what?
- We need to look for England's photo.
- Come on, be here, be here.
- But he just might not be a board member.
Maybe he's something else.
Maybe he just works on the team.
- Yeah.
And if he's a lawyer, why hide that from Nick?
Wouldn't he have said that?
- I would, like, 1,000% would have said that.
- Yeah. All right. Let's search the phone number.
- Uh-oh.
both: "Genevieve."
- Genevieve. - Roanoke, Texas.
- 68. - Huh?
What in the what?
- What if this guy, like, literally is
a house bunny for old ladies and, like,
uses them to be able to get phones.
- Ooh. Maybe that lady bought his phone.
Okay. So that's weird.
What else do we wanna look up?
Oh, just England Gatewood.
Let's just do a search for that.
That's an unusual name.
- Yeah.
- Oh, wait. So here's an Instagram.
Yeah. - Mm-hmm.
- This is an active Instagram.
It says he's in Pittsburgh, 700 followers,
a lot of people commenting.
- It's not active. 2014. - Oof. Wow.
2014 was the last post.
I wonder why all of a sudden
he just stopped using Instagram.
Look at this comment-- caiti cat.
- "I love you, England. I think you are so adorable."
- This person knows him. - caiti cat.
- And calls him England. I mean, is this just him?
How are we getting this so wrong?
Let's message caiti cat.
- Hey, caiti cat.
- All right.
I was sure this guy was a catfish,
but I gotta say, after seeing this Instagram,
I'm like, wait a second, this guy's legit.
Let's see what else we have on our Google search for him.
Here we go. Gatewood Services Inc. website.
Cleaning service in Pittsburgh.
Great.
So he does have a cleaning company.
"We go the extra mile.
"Call us today and find out how.
Read more." - Click the reviews.
Excellent, top-notch work.
"England is professional, courteous, respectful,
and on his game."
- It does look like a lot of his clients are older women.
[phone ringing] - Ahh!
- Yes! Hi, this is Nev.
- Hi, how are you?
- I'm great. Thank you.
So we're in Pennsylvania now shooting an episode
of "Catfish," and we're trying to help a young man
who has been talking to another man,
and we went to his old Instagram account
and saw that you had commented on it
and it appeared that you and he were good friends.
- So what can you tell us about your friend, England?
- So the Instagram that we found,
that is for sure England.
- That's him. You hung out with him.
- So you don't know if he's living in Greensburg.
- All right. Well, thank you.
That is actually very helpful.
- Thank you so much for your help.
- Okay, great. Bye.
All right. So wait a second.
This guy's name is England.
We've now confirmed that.
And his Instagram's legit.
So either Nick is talking to the real England or someone's
strangely impersonating a real person
using their name and photos.
- Well, there's definitely a huge time gap
from the Instagram,
all these pictures from 2014
when Caiti last saw England in real life,
to now, this Facebook page that seems more current,
but also doesn't really look like it belongs to the England
that Nick is talking to, either.
- Right. And why would England open up to him,
share intimate details of their lives
and then just start ghosting him.
- I don't know.
- What's going on with England?
- Nick.
- We've gotta talk.
- All right. Well, good. Keep that energy up.
We're gonna figure this out.
- Okay. All right.
[knocks]
Hello. - Hey, guys.
- Hey, what's up bud? - Hey, how are you?
- Good to see you. - Nice to see you.
- We've got a lot to talk about.
- Sounds good.
- Have a seat. - Thank you.
- So we've did some research.
We found some information.
Why don't we just walk you through our process
and show you what we found? - Okay.
- All right.
So, first thing we did was we went to his Facebook page
because that's where all the photos...
- Mostly the photos I've seen of him.
- Of him are, right.
We downloaded all the photos that we could get
off of his Facebook page, and we ran all of them.
And there were no hits.
- Is that a good thing?
- Ehh--it's-- - It's hard to say.
Now, here's where it gets interesting.
His banner picture.
This photo suggests, at least to me,
that he's involved in some sort of corporate career to me.
- Okay.
- That doesn't mean that he can't also
have his own cleaning business, but it would be weird to me
if he hasn't mentioned to you, like, oh yeah,
I got my law degree or I'm paralegal.
- Yeah.
- So then, I took this photo to search these guys.
And one of them was a hit.
This guy, who it turns out, works at--
- A law firm or something. - Exactly.
So I was like, oh, that's great.
Because he's in the photo with England.
- England. - They must work together.
- Yeah. That's what it seems like.
- Right. I mean, again, it's sort of odd how this guy's
background doesn't seem to match with
what you know about England. - Yeah. it's a little strange.
- Anyway. So at this point, we started doing phone search.
Now this is where it gets kinda weird.
- Okay. - His phone number comes back
registered to a 68-year-old woman named Genevieve [bleep].
You don't know a Genevieve. - No.
- He's never talked about Genevieve.
- No Genevieve.
- I don't wanna knock anybody's hustle,
but could he possibly be spending time
with these older women and they're giving him gifts and--
- Maybe Genevieve bought him a phone. Yeah.
Anything's possible.
- It could also just be a mistake.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- So then we just Googled England Gatewood.
Pretty unique name.
- Very unique.
- And the first thing that comes up is an Instagram.
- What?
- And there's a lot of pictures here.
Oh, 186 likes and how many comments?
A lot. - That's a lot different
than his Facebook. - Exactly.
So maybe his Facebook page is a fake account.
- But this page hasn't been used in a long time.
- Yeah. - So whoever this guy is--
if this is the guy that you're talking to
or this is someone else-- it looks like
there was a page that was very active
for a guy named England Gatewood,
who is the guy in the pictures.
As we went through his page, looking for kind of comments
and captions from people, one jumped out
and it was from this girl, Caiti.
"I love you, England. I think you're so adorable.
"I hope we continue to grow into even better friends
than we are now."
We sent her a message, and she called us right back.
- Really? Right away. - Right.
- Okay.
- She basically said that that Instagram is his Instagram
that she had last--
- So he is probably real, then.
- This seems like he's the real deal.
- That's a good first step, at least.
- It is a good thing, but it also
then makes it that much stranger
that he's been so shady.
- Why he's been the way he's been, yes.
- 'Cause if it's him, I'm like, what's the big deal.
Either you're talking to the real England
or someone's impersonating a real person
using their name and photos.
So last thing we did was we just wanted
to check out his business, right.
You said he's got this housekeeping business.
So we went to the website,
and I actually have to say,
I found the website to be pretty legit.
It says cleaning service in Pittsburgh.
- Okay. - He's got hourly rates
and then there's some testimonials,
and the testimonials actually,
you know, seem kinda like a lot of his clients
are older women. - Yes.
- Right. - Which leads to
many more questions.
- What do you think about the overall?
- I'm very confused, and I just feel, like,
maybe he hasn't been completely honest
with everything about his life.
I just don't wanna be lied to, you know.
- So now we've gotta figure out, okay, what's the--
what is the next move? - The plan.
- Right.
- I just feel like we need to meet him
and find out in person.
- We need to reach out. - Yes.
I need to reach out. - Well, it could be you
or it could be us. - Well, you're talking to him.
- I feel like you need to sort of stand up for yourself
because more than anything, this experience for you
is less about England and more about you.
- I have to step up and make hard decisions.
- Yeah. - Okay.
- Give him a call. - Oh, [bleep].
- What are you gonna say? [line trilling]
- We can him that we're here? - What are you gonna say?
- Should I tell him you're here?
- What are you doing?
- Okay. Well, do you want to meet up?
And--because I need to talk to you in person,
and I need some answers from you.
- England, it's been--we've talked for, like, two months.
I think it's time that we, you know, meet, at least.
- Nev and Kamie are on the phone with me.
Do you wanna talk to them? Do you want to meet me or not?
- Hey, sorry. This is weird.
So, Nick--
- Yes, I'm serious.
- Because I just wanted to meet you in person
and every time, you know-- you always give me, you know,
excuses why we can't meet.
- Well, we're not just on the-- I mean, we're actually here.
We're in town with--
- I'm with them right now. Yeah.
[line beeps] - Oh.
- Yes, I'm serious.
- Well, listen, England--
[line beeps] - Oh.
- "Nev."
Very hostile.
- I'm mad that he got, like, defensive like that.
Is he so self-conscious that he is so scared to meet me maybe?
- Or it's not him. Hold on a second.
I have an idea.
If he's legit, and he's too busy for you
'cause he's focused on his job.
Like, let's give him some work.
If his cleaning company is really a cleaning business,
let's book a cleaning.
We'll request a booking.
If he's out of town, then he won't be able to do it,
but maybe he is in town.
We could say, hey, here's our address.
We need a cleaning.
- So he can come appraise. - Right.
And maybe he'll say, yeah, let me come over
and do an appraisal or something.
- Okay. - Let me go to the website.
Let's see what happens when we hit get a quote, it asks--
Okay, so, name. All right,
so what are we putting in for name?
- Well, I can do it 'cause he didn't talk to me on the phone.
- Right. Okay. So what do you want your name to be?
- I always go with Ashley or Amber.
- I'm gonna go with Ashley. - Yeah, Ashley.
- All right, wait, we need a phone number.
Hold on. All these catfish
always be using fake phone numbers.
I think it's time for us to make our own text--
Text Now number. - We're gonna catfish England.
- I can't believe we're making a Text App number.
- We're making a Text App number.
- We are catfishing the catfish.
- I've--okay, great. I think that's it.
That was so easy. - That's too easy.
- So let's put our phone number in.
"How can we help you?"
- Party. Urgent. - Urgent.
- Exclamation point.
- Hello, I'm hosting-- - Private soiree
at my estate. - At my house this weekend
and need the place cleaned. - ASAP.
Hope you can come today. Thanks.
- That's good. - Oh, my God.
You guys are- we're doing this.
All right. - Submit.
- It says, we'll get back to you soon.
We shouldn't do this at Nick's place,
so let's find out if anyone who's working on the show
locally has a place we can use
'cause he's gonna need our address.
- Mm-hmm. - Come to the house.
- He's gonna wanna know where we are.
- Is this site even updated? - You've got an address?
- Yeah. - Ooh, really.
[phone ringing] - Ooh!
- Ahh! - Oh, my God. I'm clamming up.
- Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's him.
All right. Ready?
- Hello?
- Oh, great. Oh, my gosh.
Okay, so I've been scrambling all day because I have
this big party going on this weekend
and my place is just a wreck, and I need it cleaned ASAP.
Are you available to come by to give me a quote?
- I'm in Pennsylvania. I'm in Vanderbilt.
- Okay.
- Oh, perfect. That would be amazing.
Can I text you the address?
- Perfect. All right, so I'll text it
to you right now.
- Thank you. - Thanks again.
- Two hours away! - Right.
Definitely means he's around. - Yes.
- He's available. - That doesn't make sense
why he couldn't meet me then, right?
- Okay. So I'm gonna text him the address.
See you soon. - Yeah.
- All right. So should we just
head up there and, like, get set up?
- Yeah. - Mm-hmm.
All right. Let's go get my house cleaned.
[somber music]
- I don't want him to feel like he's walking into a trap.
Should I greet him first, and say like,
look, we tricked you, but clearly you are available.
You aren't out of town.
- And this needed to be done.
- And Nick's inside, and would love to meet with you.
Like, it's your call. You don't have to come in.
If you don't want. But, like, I think you should.
- And who knows? Maybe the house
really does need to get cleaned.
- Amazing. - I know.
- All right. Let's park here, I guess.
- All right, ready? - Yep.
- All right.
I'll text him and ask him if he's close.
So I'll say, hey there.
- ETA? - Yeah. What's your ETA?
- I'm so stressed out.
- Okay. - So what's the plan?
Where's the crew going?
- So you guys--Well, you guys could all be--I guess.
Oh, great.
This is perfect.
There's a big garage right here.
- Okay. - You guys can hang out
in here, listen, and when he's inside,
I'll just come and get you. [phone chimes]
Oh, he said, "Hello.
Looks like I'm about five minutes away."
- We gotta get into position.
- Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.
- [shivering] - It's cold in here.
- It's cold. - He should be here.
[dramatic music]
♪♪ ♪♪
Ooh. Someone who just got here.
The car has pulled up.
♪♪ ♪♪
[doorbell dings]
♪♪ ♪♪
- Hey.
[doorbell dings]
[tense music]
- Hey. What's up, man?
Nev. Good to meet you.
We spoke earlier, briefly.
- What are you doing here?
- Similar to what I was doing earlier,
which was just trying to kinda get you in a position to maybe
wanna meet up with Nick or just
kind of answer some basic questions about, I guess, Nick.
I don't know what your relationship is like.
I only know when he's told me,
but he certainly gave the impression
that you'd indicated that you were interested in him.
Or at least meeting up with him.
We don't like that we had to do it this way,
but if you'd like to come inside,
I'd love to just chat with you for a second.
- Yeah. That's fine.
- The good news is you're you.
Nick is here.
He's bummed and confused and feels like
you guys had a good thing going.
And then it kinda sort of got weird and he's not sure why.
So if you wanna go, you can go, or I can go get him
and we can all just kinda hang out here for a minute
and clear the air and get some clarity.
- Let's meet him. That's fine.
- All right. So why don't you come on in?
I'll go get him.
All right. It's him.
He's here and he's willing to talk.
- Okay.
- Hey, England. What's up? - How's it going?
- Good. How are you? - Good.
- Are you mad? - I just--I--this is a lot.
- Kamie. Nice to meet you.
I did catfish you, and I apologize.
- This is a lot.
I mean, I was just in West Virginia.
I came here just to do an emergency cleaning
and it's--now it's-- now it's all this.
- We were supposed to, like, meet.
Like, when we first started talking,
you said you were looking for something long-term and I said,
I was looking for something long-term and I asked you
before I messaged you and asked if you were still interested,
and you just don't say anything.
- I am interested.
I mean, there's just a lot going on.
I mean, I have a lot going on with my business and, you know,
there may be something that you don't know, too, as well--
- There's something I don't know, isn't there?
- Yeah. I mean, I've--
I mean, I've been talking to someone else, too.
Like, also--like, just juggling, like two people.
- Wait, so you're--you are sort of in another relationship?
- Yeah. Like, I'm talk--
I mean, like, I've-- I've been--I've been talking
to somebody, like, his name's TJ,
and I've been talking to him before,
like, you know, I started talking to Nick.
And I told--I told you about this person before,
you know, we started talking.
- Oh, was this your ex that you're talking about?
- Yeah. - So he was not
actually your ex, you're still seeing him, right?
- Well, I mean, it's--it's just--
it was just a muddy water relationship, you know.
- So you started dating this guy TJ before you met Nick.
- Yeah. - And I guess things
with TJ had sort of-- were unclear.
You started talking to Nick,
and then over the course of the last two months,
it's kinda been on, so you've been, like,
keeping Nick at arm's length. - That's why.
- Yeah. - Long story short,
we just wanted to finally get you guys
to meet and just talk to you and find out what was up.
And if he should be hoping to meet up with you.
And where are you serious when you told him
that you were looking for some, like, a long-term relationship?
- Or was that just a lie?
- I mean, it--maybe just to say it just--just to say it,
but I wasn't like, you know- I wanted to at least
meet him and, like, be friends.
- So you weren't in that moment really looking
for, like, a serious long-term monogamous relationship.
You were sort of distracting yourself from the trouble
you were having with TJ and, like, thinking, okay,
maybe I could meet someone nice.
And maybe it could turn in something, but like,
you didn't necessarily think this guy seems great.
I wanna be his boyfriend.
- Right.
- Well, choose your words carefully next time.
- [scoffs] Yeah, I guess so.
It's so much aggravation, and you always just
wanting my time whenever I-- I'm busy.
- I didn't always want--no. - I mean, I'm busy.
So like, you know, if I have time, and I--
and if I'm available to hang out with you,
then I can make it.
And then I went down to D. C., you know,
and then I was telling him I have a client
that called me and he's like, well, freaking out
why I went down to D. C..
- I didn't freak out why you went to D. C..
I was confused.
- There seem to be some sort of unclear explanation as to,
like, what you meant by client.
- What are you implying?
- When we found out that you have this cleaning business
and servicing these older women,
I threw out the idea that maybe you
do services for these women.
- No. - Like sexual services.
- No, no. - So we were way off.
- Yeah. So far off, like,
I don't even wanna deal with this no more.
It's a lot. So Nev, Kamie, I'm out.
- Okay. It was nice meeting you, England.
I hope you and TJ-- - All right.
- Thank you for coming.
- It was good to meet you.
Do you guys understand how he was in the wrong?
- 1,000%. Listen, do I think
that you read into what he was telling you?
Yes. But when somebody's giving you their word,
your natural instinct is to trust them.
- Everything--the foundation of England is all false pretenses.
And I took his words too literally, and it sucks.
- All right. Well-- - Let's go.
Let's get out of here. - Yeah.
- He's gone, right? - Yeah, yeah.
- Oh, boy.
- It is what it is.
- Do we think that we're gonna hear from him again?
- I don't know. It doesn't feel fully resolved.
We finally answered the big question.
He is who he says he is. - Correct.
- And I don't know if maybe he's not willing
to admit how he feels because he still thinks
maybe things with TJ could work out.
He doesn't want TJ to find out that he really had feelings
for you this whole time, or if he's insecure
about his feelings and how to express them.
I don't know. So I would be curious if possible
to get another chance to talk to him what he might say.
[line trilling]
- Good morning, Nick. How are you?
- We figured you might.
We actually just texted with him.
He seems to be in a better mood.
I invited him to meet us at this coffee shop in town,
told him you would be here.
He's cool with that, and he's going to head over here.
So head over to this place I'll text you.
- Great. Bye.
- All right.
- Ice, ice, ice.
- Thank you. - Hi.
Oh, hello. - Good morning, guys.
- There he is. - Good morning.
- Dude, you look a bit more professional.
- About business. How are you feeling?
What are you thinking? - I just need answers from--
like, real--real answers.
Like, what his real intention is.
Because yesterday we did talk on the phone.
- Last night? - Yes.
- Wow. Wait, when? How did it go down?
- Totally opposite of how he was yesterday.
He called me and then, like, he just started
talking sexual right away, and I'm just like--
- What? - He's like--
which totally contradicts
how he acted when I met him in person.
It did kinda get a little intense.
- But did you guys then start talking, like--
- Yeah. He got me a little, like, excited.
- Wait. - Nicholas.
- Well-- - [laughs]
- He brought it on first, you know.
- Yeah, no, I get it. But, like, he--
- And then I really didn't know what to do.
I'm just like-- - So when you first spoke
on the phone last night, he was like, we should meet up.
- No, he started talking sexual.
And then after I was like, okay, well,
I don't wanna do that right away,
but can we at least go on a date first
before, you know--or a couple of dates, just so I can
get to know you a little more.
And he said he was fine with that,
but he also told me that-- he said he doesn't develop
feelings through talking. - How does develop?
- Sex. - Good night.
- What? - The only way he can
develop feelings for someone. - That is so manipulative.
- Yeah. - And gaslighty
- Exactly. - And, like, that's crazy.
- He wants to try to play you in public,
but in private, he wants to be able
to have whatever he wants to have.
- All this guy wants is to have sex with you.
He's playing you! - Mm!
- All this guy wants is to have sex with you.
- He wants to try to play you in public,
but in private, he wants to be able to have
whatever he wants to have.
- He's playing you! [phone chimes]
- Oh. He just texted.
- What'd he say?
- "I'm parking and coming in." - Oh, wow.
That was fast.
Right. So--so listen,
I think we have to have a new strategy.
Let's keep it chill.
And we're going to, on your behalf,
advocate that he leave you alone.
Unless he's serious about developing
a relationship in a way that you are comfortable doing it.
- I like this plan a lot. - Is that okay?
- But I want you to know that we are not on the side
of you having a relationship with this man
outside of this conversation at this table on this day.
[door opens]
Hello. - Hey, how's it going?
- Hey, there. [clears throat]
- Good afternoon. - Good to see you.
How's it going? - All right, all right.
- Good to see you. - Come on in.
Have a seat.
Well, listen, thank you for joining us today.
I think all of us feel sort of strange and a little uneasy
about how things went down. - Yeah.
We tried something different yesterday in an effort
just to make contact with you.
And though it was effective, it was also
a little freaky and we didn't like the way it went.
And sorry that we sort of, you know,
booby-trapped you a little. - I'll just accept it.
- That's fine. - So I appreciate that.
- Yeah, that's fine.
- But mainly what we wanna do is give you both a chance
to say whatever it is you need to say.
Hopefully, listen to each other clearly
so that there's a clear path forward, whatever that means.
- So last night on the phone, what did you mean yesterday
when you told me that to form a relationship, like,
something long-term, you don't get feelings
by just talking to someone, you have to have sex with them too?
Is that-- - Well, I didn't--
I mean, I didn't mean it by that.
I mean, I don't know what--
Did I actually say that? - Yes.
- Oh, okay. - Those were your exact words.
- I mean, it's like, I'm not really--
Look, sexual feelings are gonna come, you know, with--
you know, if you're talking to somebody for a long time,
maybe, I don't know.
But, you know, I don't know.
Everyone thinks differently.
- Look, you guys had a chat yesterday.
But I wanted to know from your perspective,
like, what the context of that conversation was
and how that came to be after we obviously
were no longer present.
- Just--just to talk to him
just to, like, hear-- just, like, you know,
kinda of where he's at.
Just, you know--
and if he does wanna continue being a friend or, you know,
a friend that has benefits,
you know, that may come with it.
- Here's what I think, England.
I think Nick was confused based off of how you were reacting
and it seemed like you weren't really interested.
And then last night, he gets a call from you,
and you got sexual with him right away.
You see how that is confusing, how it's contradictory
when you're saying one thing in person
and then behind the scenes, it's like,
you'd kind of dissed him in public.
- Okay, like, we're saying, like, we can be friends.
Okay, we're gonna try to have a friends with benefits
maybe relationship. - Right. Okay.
Here's the thing, though:
Nick may not want that.
Right now, Nick is a mess.
He is emotionally confused.
He's had a very unfortunate sequence of events in his life
that left him damaged and hurt and very vulnerable,
especially when it comes to love and relationships.
You're a bit older, you're a bit more mature,
you're a bit more experienced.
But you're also a private, somewhat reserved
and mysterious person.
And that combination is leaving his heart
twisted and his stomach in a knot,
and he has no idea what to do.
And I think you need to understand
that every little thing that you think you're saying to him,
you're spinning him around, whether you mean to or not,
like, a [bleep] top,
and it's hard for him. - Well, I'm not trying to.
- There's nothing wrong with you expressing
what it is that you want and what is it you don't want.
What is it you're ready for and what you're not,
but I need for you to make it crystal [bleep] clear
how you wanna move forward.
- Well...
I don't wanna hurt your feelings, but...
we should just stop talking to each other, then.
- Okay. - Which is fine.
- That's fine. - Totally fair.
- So, look, I think we can finally wrap this up
by saying you guys are both at places in your lives
that just aren't matching up.
- Correct. - And that it's probably best
that you don't pursue anything with each other.
You're looking for something different.
As long as you guys understand that--
- Okay. - But we're clear about it.
- Finally.
- Now that we've cleared that up,
unless there's anything else, England,
great to meet you.
It's been a pleasure. - Me too. Thanks.
A pleasure. - Good to meet you.
- You guys can say bye.
- ♪♪ Taking things slow ♪♪
- See you, England. - I can give you a hug.
I can give you a hug, right? - What? You're giving me a hug?
- Yeah, that's fine.
Yeah. [laughs] - All right.
- Thank you. - Bye.
- ♪♪ Why do I keep wondering? ♪♪
- [groans] So, you know what he wants.
Right now, he is not looking for a serious relationship.
- He wants to [bleep].
That's it. - Yeah.
- So if you wanna [bleep], fine.
But if you get your heart broke, that's not up to us.
- Exactly. No one's fault but mine.
- Don't call us. - Yes.
- ♪♪ What if you don't ♪♪
[computer chiming]
both: Hey! - Hey, how are you?
- What's up, handsome? How's it going?
- It's going good.
Me and England don't talk anymore.
- Wow. Okay. - Good.
Did he try to hit you up, though?
- Yeah, at first, but I blocked him.
- Wow. - That's for the best.
- And I have a boyfriend now, actually.
- Ah! - Whoa!
How did you end up meeting your boyfriend?
- Grindr, of course.
- And you met him in person? - Yes.
We went to the movies together.
- I love that. - I'm so happy
that you got past the whole England situation.
Another American gain their independence from England.
- Good night. [laughter]
- All right, Nick. Well, good luck
with everything and don't settle, ever.
- Thank you, guys. Without the show,
I would have wasted so much more time
on England, and I would've never found, you know,
my boyfriend. - Yeah.
- Our pleasure. - [kisses]
- Have a good one, guys. Bye. - Later, Nick.
- Bye.
[computer chimes] both: Hey!
- How you doing? - Good.
- England, we just wanted to check in with you,
kinda find out what's been going on since we saw you.
- Yeah. I've just been, you know, focusing
on Gatewood Services Inc.
And I haven't really been speaking to Nick.
We kinda just stopped talking.
It just wasn't a good match.
- Do you have any regrets
about the whole relationship with Nick?
- I mean, I think just being maybe more honest,
you know, with, you know, myself and, you know, him.
I think that would have been good.
- It's good to know that your business is going well.
- Yeah. - If you ever do decide
to become a sugar baby, we fully support that.
[laughter]
- Oh, God. Oh, my goodness.
- Seems like things are going well.
So, happy that it all ended up working out.
- Thank you. I appreciate it.
- Take care. - Best of luck.
- Thanks. - Later.
- See you. - Bye.
- Ivy has been talking to Dante.
- He's very respectful, gentle,
and like, this is a great guy.
- That's gotta be him.
Definitely married with kids.
- This is taking a physical and emotional toll on you.
- We gotta do whatever it takes to get this guy to show up.
- Somebody's sitting there. - It makes me nervous.
- Dante?
♪♪ ♪♪