- This girl seems so dope, independent, ambitious.
I'm like, "Okay."
- Do you know who I'm talking about
when I say, "Jesica Foxx"?
- This could be her.
This is the weirdest [bleep] in the world.
- This is, like, a deeper thing
than just somebody talking to you,
because they have a crush on you.
Hello.
- Oh, [bleep].
- Hey. Look at this red room.
- This is nice. Some color in our world.
- Oh.
- What the [bleep] is this? - A little awkward.
- Guess that's--they didn't have two of these.
[laughter]
- You know what? I'm not sitting in that.
That's not even a chair.
- Well, that's your spot, Kamie.
- That's not even a chair. I'll sit back here.
- It is a chair. - No, it's not.
If I get down, I'm not gonna be able to get back up.
- I'll help you.
- This is not a chair.
- It's a camping chair. It's a--
- You think I've been camping ever in my life?
- This is good. - Oof.
- This is good. I think this works.
- This is not cute.
There better be a real chair. - Bring in the chair.
Bring in the chair.
- [laughs]
Yeah.
Well, now that I have a legitimate chair,
maybe I could get a legitimate cohost?
[both laugh]
- All right. Let's get into this.
We got an email here from Reese.
"Great day, Nev and Kamie."
Never have I ever heard that greeting.
Why have a good day...
- When you can have a great one.
- "My name is Reese.
"I'm 30 years old,
"and I live in Asbury Park, New Jersey
where I work as a fitness transformation coach."
- ♪ Makes it hard, real hard, for yourself ♪
- Ooh. - Cool.
"Five months ago,
"I got a message on social media
from a girl named Jesica Foxx."
- ♪ You can be somebody to love ♪
- "Jesica is more than a snack.
She's a 20-course meal."
- Damn.
- "This girl is beautiful,
"ambitious, and intelligent.
"We've been talking for five months,
"but haven't met even though we live 25 minutes apart.
"I'm not trying to pat myself on the back,
"but I'm good-looking guy on the Shore,
and I usually get what I want fairly quickly."
- Mm.
- "I've never had a woman who wasn't willing
to make some time to get to know me."
- ♪ You can be somebody to love ♪
- "It's driving me a little crazy."
This is it. We talked about this.
- This is what you gotta do. - You want to get a guy...
- Give them nothing. - Give them nothing.
"I'm not in love with her, but I'm in lust.
And I can't get this girl outta my mind."
- ♪ Don't go and chase all the stars ♪
- "I need answers now
"because this week, there was also some weird stuff
"going on with her phone number that had me concerned.
"Maybe she's telling me the truth,
"and her job is incredibly time-consuming,
"but it's also possible that she's a catfish.
"I hope you'll consider helping me out
"because I've gotta know where I stand.
With gratitude, Reese."
- ♪ Somebody to love ♪
- Reese sounds lovely. - He does.
- But I get wanting something
that's so close, just can't have it.
That's the--that's the best. That's the key.
That's the vibe I'm on right now.
It's called the sweet and sour. It's what I've been coining it.
It's like you give him a little bit,
and then you take it away.
Bare minimum.
- Yeah. - Works every time.
- Well, let's call him. - Mm.
[line trills] Hello?
- Reese, it's your boy, Nev.
- And your girl, Kamie.
- Hey.
- I mean--
- Yeah, we read your email, and we have lots of questions.
- But it'd be easier probably if we just head to Jersey,
and you can tell us all about Jesica.
Hopefully--I mean, look, if she's close,
if she lives half an hour away from you,
it should be easy to make some plans.
- Well, we'll see you I guess tomorrow.
- All right, Reese. See you later, bud.
- Bye. - Bye.
Lolie're taking our asses to Asbury.
- I made it.
I think Kamie's already on the flight.
So here goes nothing.
- ♪ I'm always ready to go ♪
♪ I'm always out of control ♪
♪ Like I'm on top of the world ♪
♪ I'm always ready, I'm always ready ♪
♪ Come on, get ready to go ♪
♪ I'm always ready, I'm always ready ♪
♪ Come on, get ready to go ♪
♪ Yeah ♪
- All right, let's do this.
- Oh, I want you and Reese to do,
like, a pushup competition to see who wins.
- He's a professional fitness coach.
- Well, don't make excuses.
- There they are. - Oh!
- Hello, hello. You actually made it.
- Wow. - We made it.
- You do hugs? - Yes.
- Yes? Awesome. Awesome. both: Good to meet you.
- For sure. For sure. You do hugs, Nev?
- Sure. - All right. [indistinct]
- At least an arm wrestling competition.
- I'm not gonna arm wrestle this guy.
- Well, we're gonna find something.
- Come on in. - Come up with something.
- I mean, I do some fitness,
but I'm not gonna challenge Reese.
- Don't be a little punk. [laughter]
Wow. - Welcome to my humble abode.
- Let's go have a seat and get into it.
- Okay.
Well, what drew you
to this person hitting you up on Instagram?
- Yeah, how did it-- how did it start?
- How did it start?
So Jesica hit me up on the Gram,
and I saw her name, I'm like, "Jesica Foxx."
I saw her pictures, was like, "Oh, wow.
She's bad too." - Okay.
- So now I'm interested. So we start talking.
She's from New York City. Find out what she does.
She is 25, but she's also a live-in nurse at 25.
So I was like, that was ambitious to me.
You know, not a lot of people at that age
are pursuing their career.
So I was like, "Okay, that's cool."
- Yeah. - And then she lives in Howe.
So Howe's only, like, 30 minutes from here.
So we was hitting it off. I saw the ambition.
Trying to hang out and do things,
but always busy.
So, you know, eventually I'm like,
"All right, I wanna see this girl.
Like, I really wanna see you. I wanna hear your voice."
So tried to video call. Didn't even answer.
But then she actually called back,
and I didn't answer.
So now we're kind of playing--
- Why didn't you answer?
- I'm a busy person. You know, I was--
- Did you discuss that?
Did you say like, "Oh, I missed your"--
- Yeah, yeah, like, "Oh, missed your call."
And I'm like, "You know, gimme a call back."
And then it's going back to, "All right, I'll try,
but I'm busy." You know, "I'm busy again."
Okay. Cool.
It seem like you only get one hour a [bleep] week,
one hour a month.
I don't know what that is, right?
- Give him just enough.
Just enough. Give him a little bit.
- What's that mean? - Just a taste.
- We were just--we were talking about how...
- And then you take it away.
- The best way to get a guy
interested in you is to give less.
- They give nothing. - You know what I mean? Like--
- Nothing. - Nothing.
- All right, so she's right. So let me tell you something
about, like-- the more a chick gives me
it's like a-- [grunts]
- Mm-hmm.
- Like, so that's what's so cool about Jesica.
Like, she wasn't sweating me. She wasn't needy.
I love somebody who's so into what they doing
that they don't--they might-- I don't wanna talk every day.
I wanna actually have something to talk about.
This girl seems so dope,
independent, you know, ambitious,
and she's a bad chick.
Like, okay. - Mm-hmm.
- Does the relationship ever leave Instagram and go to cell?
- So--yeah. So gave her my number.
I was like, "Hit me up.
Let's get a little more personal here."
So then she does give me a call.
- Your phone rings?
- Once again, my phone is on silent.
- You missed it?
- Missed it. But she left a voicemail.
- Oh. - So now I'm like, "All right."
You know, "Okay. I get to hear the voice."
So I like the voice, and then I called her back,
but she didn't answer.
But something else alarmed me.
It was a Google Voice. - Mm...
- So then I'm like, "You know, what's up?
Why do you have a Google Voice?"
And she's like, "Well, you can reach me at this number."
So I'm lik "You got two numbers?"
- Do you still have the voicemail?
- I can check.
- I kind of wanna hear what she sounds like.
- It's right here. - [gasps]
- Oh.
- Hey, Reese. It's Jesica.
I just wanted to call and say hey.
I'm having a super busy day, and I hope to see you soon.
Bye.
- She sounds normal. - Yeah.
- The number definitely comes back to Washington, D.C.
- Weird, though, it was a D.C. number.
- Mm-hmm.
- So that was the Google Voice number?
- That's the Google Voice number.
But this was all within, like, the last week.
You know, ever since then,
no answer on the phone, no call on the phone.
- But then it's interesting that she sent a voicemail,
but you haven't talked to her on the phone.
- That's right.
- Maybe whoever you're talking to
if it's not the girl in the pictures,
put somebody else up to being like,
"Talk on the phone for me,"
which suggests that the gender of the person
that you're talking to does not match
the gender of the person in the pictures.
- Oftentimes.
- Or it's a voice that you would recognize
if you heard it.
So what about anybody that you, like, dated
or wanted your attention that you didn't give it to?
- So I meet a lot of different people,
and I can't say that somebody maybe wanted
a second night that didn't get one.
- Is it fair to say that there are some ladies out there
who might say you're a heartbreaker?
- They can call me that if they want,
but I'm not sitting here putting candy in their ear
or telling them what they want to hear.
- So you're not, like, love bombing them?
- No. - You're upfront?
- You're sure? - Yes.
- Because we brought the ladies from the Shore--
ladies, come in.
- We have two of your exes here.
- No. [laughter]
No, no.
I feel like she's more like a Casanova than I am.
She knows the right things to say.
She's very, like, flirtatious,
and she'll tell you everything you want to hear,
make you really feel good about yourself.
Say things like, "Oh, my God,
I'm in love," and [bleep] like that.
And I'm like, "Hold on." Like, you know?
- Wow. - Like, for me,
there's a lot of lust. - Mm-hmm.
- Sure. - A lot of lust.
Love is nowhere near this equation.
I'm not saying that it can't be.
- Yeah, you haven't gotten--
you haven't had the opportunity yet.
- Yeah, exactly. But I wanna meet her.
Like, I want to see.
Like, if Jesica's who she says she is,
she could be a dope candidate for a partner.
- I gotta see this girl. What about pictures?
- Oh, yeah. All right. Let's see.
- There you go. - All right, here we go.
All right. Jesica Foxx in New York City.
Interesting. - Mm-hmm. Body-ody-ody.
- Yeah, right? - All right.
So you've got two numbers that she sent you.
The Google Voice one that she called you and you missed.
- Yes. - And then another one
she said to try that you tried and got nothing?
- Yes. - You got her Instagram.
- Yes.
- And then there's no other social media
or anything that you found or that she shared with you?
- No. - Okay.
Let us see if we can figure out if Jesica is real,
which would be the first step. - Mm-hmm.
- And if she's not real, then what's the next step?
- Well, then we have to decide what you want to do.
- Okay. - We're gonna figure this out.
So let's see where this takes us.
- Awesome. Thank you. Thank you both.
- Of course. Good to meet you.
- Great to meet you as well.
- We gotta get to the bottom.
- I do get the sense that Reese
is looking for something different than what he's had.
- Mm-hmm.
- If all he wanted was to get laid,
he would've stopped talking to this girl a long time ago.
- Right.
- So clearly there's some feelings,
though he may not fully be aware of them,
are pretty strong for her.
- I wouldn't be surprised if this is somebody
that's seen him and they've wanted his attention.
But why haven't you met up? There has to be a reason.
[upbeat music]
- Thank you, kind sir.
- Oh, wow. This place is big.
All right. What do we got? Reese, handsome guy, 30.
He's found himself in a relationship with Jesica,
who he met through Instagram,
who is one, if not the only, girl
he's ever met that won't let him get what he wants,
and it's driving him crazy.
- He's enamored.
- All he's got from this girl
is really her Instagram account,
one voicemail, and a hell of a lot of mystery.
- Yeah. - All right.
I got a new email from Reese.
"Here's what I've got for you about Jesica."
Her name, Jesica Foxx.
Her Instagram, which is also Jesica Foxx [bleep].
- It feels like a made-up name. - It does.
"Jesica's Google Voice number
and the second number she gave me."
He sent some pictures too.
I wonder if these are just off her Instagrams.
- We might as well start with the pictures.
- All right.
Let's just try a quick image search.
No. All right.
Here's another picture of her standing kind of outside.
Oh. Ooh!
- Okay. - We got something.
@dedeonthebeach. What is this?
[gasps] Yeah!
Got her. Her name's Dede.
- Mm-hmm. - There she is.
- Wow. - This is definitely the girl.
- Yeah.
- And is she tagged and stuff?
- Yeah. And 360,000 followers.
- Noom New Jersey.
Whoever Reese is talking to, it's not this girl.
And if she's lying about the pictures,
she could be lying about everything else.
So let's reach out to Dede,
see if we can get her to just give us the confirmation
that we already basically have.
All right, here we go. Please...
- Help us. - Thanks.
All right. What do we do next?
- We search the numbers.
- Ooh, let's put those numbers into Cash App.
- I'll do the second. - The second one? You think so?
- No, but the first one-- - Oh. Oh. Oh, yeah.
[humming] - Oh, wow.
- Raven [bleep].
Could this actually be the girl that Reese has been talking to?
Raven [bleep]. Hold on. Let's search that name.
Oh, here. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Real estate agent.
- Washington D.C., Maryland.
- Instagram account definitely looks real.
Good engagement. Nice comp and pics.
So wait, why would Raven be catfishing Reese?
- This girl's not catfishing.
- But if she's not, why would Jesica give Reese
the real phone number
of some other beautiful girl who lives in D.C.?
Let's run the number.
- What the [bleep] is going on?
- Yeah, Raven [bleep]. Let's see, social profiles.
Oh, Allaboutraven.
Okay. Okay. Where's this taking us?
Wait a second. Interesting. - Mm...
- This is a different page.
- This one says she's a singer, and she has a single on Apple.
This looks nothing like the life
of Raven from the realty page.
- Could this be a fake page?
Let's just go through these pics.
Smiley heart. A lot of heart eyes.
But wait, someone here says, "Cute pic.
Let's do brunch this weekend." Who is this?
- Veronica.
- Veronica [bleep].
All right, let's send this girl a message.
- Hmm. - "Hey, Veronica.
"Nev from the show 'Catfish.'
"We could use your help on a case.
Please give me a call."
All right, so what--
so can we just clear up what just happened?
I'm so--I'm kind of confused.
The first time we saw Raven's name
was because the second number that she gave Reese
came back on Cash App to a girl named Raven [bleep].
Then when we searched the number,
it also comes up registered to Raven [bleep].
- Mm-hmm.
- And it led us to an Instagram account for Raven [bleep].
- There's two. There's a realty page
that we found by Googling her name.
Then there's what looks like a page for a singer...
- Right. - Which is connected
to one of the phone numbers Jesica gave Reese.
- So could this @allaboutraven page
just be another fake page
set up by whoever's behind the Jesica page?
[phone ringing] Oh.
Veronica [bleep].
Hello, Veronica.
- Hi, it's Nev and Kamie... - Hi.
- From "Catfish." Are you on an iPhone?
Are you comfortable switching over to FaceTime
just so we can be a little bit more personal?
- Let's see if that works. Hey.
- Hi. - Hi.
- What's up?
We're doing an episode of the show.
Have you seen the show? - I have.
- We are helping this guy who's been talking
to this girl, and we found
a profile on Instagram,
and you had commented on one of the pictures.
@allaboutraven.
Do you know who that is, this girl, Raven [bleep]?
- I do. Yeah.
- How do you know Raven?
- We've been friends for years,
colleagues,
and then we became really good friends
over the years.
- So you've met Raven in person, in real life?
- Yeah, we are friends.
We hang out. We talk.
- Got it. Okay.
- I know her. We're good friends.
- Cool.
Can we--is there any chance you can sort of
introduce us to her, so that we could just chat
with her and ask her a couple questions?
- I mean, sure, I can have her call you back later.
- We'd just love to chat with her.
- Okay. I can do that. - All right. Great.
Thank you so much, Veronica. I really appreciate it.
- All right, guys.
- All right. Take care. - Okay. Bye.
- Come on. I think that's her. I think that's Jesica.
- You think so? - Yes.
Even her voice sort of sounded, I think--I was like,
"Is that the voice from the voicemail?"
- This could be her. This could be her.
- This could be Jesica.
- But my question is, if I'm catfishing Reese,
why am I catfishing Reese as Jesica Foxx?
Why not use Raven?
- Well, because she's got a few.
Whatever strikes her fancy. She's got the Raven.
She's got the Jesica. [phone ringing]
Uh-oh.
Well, now we're getting a call from Raven.
Hello?
- Hi. What's up? Is this Raven?
- Hey, it's Nev from "Catfish."
- How are you doing?
- I guess you spoke to Veronica.
- We stumbled across some profiles,
and maybe you can help us.
- Can you FaceTime?
- Uh-huh. Okay.
I don't know what to say.
I'm gonna be honest with you.
I think you are Veronica.
I didn't--I think we just spoke to you.
- I don't wanna be presumptuous.
- But we're trying to track down this girl, Jesica,
and we've now found you and Veronica,
and there's, like, a weird connection to Jesica
that we know is fake.
Do you know who I'm talking about
when I say Jesica Foxx?
[line beeps]
- I knew it was gonna happen. - Right, so wait.
That was totally Veronica
just changing her voice a little bit.
- It's giving Veronica. - Right.
- And the voice cadence was the same.
- Sounded pretty similar. - Yeah.
- And of course she couldn't FaceTime as Raven.
- She said she was gonna tell her
and then call back later tonight.
It feels like she was panicked. - Right.
- And she was like, "Let me just do it right now."
- I mean, that has to be her. Things are moving fast.
We got a lot that we need to tell Reese.
- Reese, we got a lot to talk about.
Where are you?
- Can you text us the address?
- See you soon. - All right. See you soon.
- That one has a for sale sign. Probably that one.
All right. You ready?
- Ready!
That's-- - Oh.
- Hello. - What's up? What's up?
- Hello, hello. - There he is.
- How are you? - Great morning. Great morning.
- Solid. - Good to see you.
- Welcome. Welcome.
- All right. - Suspenseful.
I've never felt a range of emotion like this.
I'm, like, very anxious right now.
- All right, look, this morning, we found a lot.
So I want to go through with you,
explain what we found, get your take on things,
and go from there.
All right, so the first thing we did,
we took the pictures you sent us.
- Yes.
- And we did a Google Image search,
and we got a hit.
And it took us here to an Instagram page
for a girl named Dede.
So it looks like there's another account
for pictures with Jesica,
but this one goes by @dedeonthebeach.
So we messaged her but have not heard back.
Has she ever mentioned anything about the name Dede before?
- No.
- So as you can see, she's got 360,000 followers,
and she doesn't live in New Jersey.
- It feels like this is the real girl.
- Right. - Okay.
- This is probably the real profile.
- So Jesica's not Jesica.
- Certainly starting to look that way.
[dramatic music]
- Now, y'all, who the [bleep] is Jesica?
- So thought, "Okay.
"We know who the girl in the pictures is.
Now let's figure out who Jesica is."
- Okay. - So then we thought,
"Okay, let's run the number in Cash App."
- Okay. - Okay?
So we did that, and look.
- There's a person.
- There's a person with that phone number on Cash App.
- She kind of pretty. - Mm-hmm. Very pretty.
- Yeah. - Yes. So that was weird to us.
Like, why would "Jesica" have a number on Cash App
under the name Raven [bleep]?
We searched Raven [bleep] and found this.
And so here's Raven's page.
She's following a lot of people.
This page seems legit,
but this girl seems to be into real estate.
Has Jesica ever mentioned doing real estate?
- No. - Open one of the pictures.
Do you recognize this girl at all?
Have you ever seen this girl?
- No, but... [chuckles]
Is this who I'm talking to?
But I wouldn't be mad if it's Raven.
- Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, if it's Raven,
why on Earth would she create a second profile
for a similarly attractive girl?
- Yeah. That don't make sense.
- Okay, let's go back now
and let's look up the number online.
And sure enough, when we do that,
we get Raven [bleep].
And it also has an affiliated account.
- Okay.
- So it takes us to a different Instagram.
- But this one says that she's an artist, a musical artist.
- Yeah. - And she has an Apple--
- A single or an album or something.
When we looked through her pictures,
well, we found a comment from this person, Veronica.
It said, "Cute pic. Let's do brunch this weekend."
- Okay. - All right.
And she even replied, "For sure, boo."
So we messaged Veronica, and Veronica called us.
And she confirmed that Raven is real and her friend.
- We were like, "You know her in person?"
She's like, "Yeah."
- And we said, "We'd love to talk to Raven.
Can you let her know we'd like to speak to her?"
She said, "Yeah, absolutely. I'll call.
As soon as we hang up, I'll have her call you."
We hang up, we're talking about how weird that was,
because Veronica sounded really similar
to the voicemail you got-- yeah--
and then not a minute or two later, my phone rings.
The screen says... - Raven [bleep].
- Okay.
- It sounded exactly like Veronica,
just with a little higher pitch in her voice.
- Is Veronica Raven?
- And so I'm like, "This is ridiculous."
- He couldn't do it. - So I said--I was like,
"Look, I gotta be honest with you.
"I'm pretty sure you're full of [bleep],
and that you are actually just Veronica and we just spoke."
- And she was like, "What?" - And then...
- She was like,
"I didn't want it to come out like this.
I have to go." Hung up the phone.
- So she kind of admitted that I was right.
So it looks like Veronica, the woman that we FaceTimed
and saw, is Raven.
And that second page we found for Raven,
which is connected to Jesica's phone number,
is actually a fake page created by Veronica.
So if she's Raven...
- Then she has to be Jesica.
- Then she also has to be Jesica,
because Jesica's numbers come back to Raven.
- [bleep] that. - Which is crazy
'cause that means that she's got a lot of fake profiles,
possibly more than even what we found.
- Yeah. - But, like,
not only does she have the fake profiles for Raven,
she's also got her phone numbers registered to Raven.
Like, she's really-- - How is that possible?
I was thinking that. Like, you can do that?
- Raven's, like, her main account.
Jesica's, like, one of her side hustles.
- How many other people she catfishing?
- I mean, yeah, there might be a bunch of people
who think they're talking to Jesica or Raven.
- Yeah.
This is the weirdest [bleep] in the world.
- This is, like, a deeper thing
than just somebody talking to you
because they have a crush on you.
Like, who knows how deep this really goes?
- All right, so at this point, we know for sure
the girl in the pictures that you think
is Jesica is someone else.
- Yes. - It also looks like the person
you're talking to might be Veronica,
and that she might even have other fake profiles.
The key to this is probably Veronica.
So that's where we're at.
- But how do we do this now? - Let me text Raven now.
"Veronica/Raven, hey. Just following up.
"I know yesterday when we talked,
"you were hesitant to say what was going on,
but I want to see if you're ready to talk."
- Mm-hmm. [text whooshes]
[tense music]
- Ooh, that's a lot.
- We've sent our message. So sit tight.
Hopefully we'll hear something,
at the very latest, by tomorrow morning.
- Okay. Cool.
- Cool. - Thank you. Appreciate you.
- Alrighty. - Thank you so much.
Appreciate you. Thank you.
- Yeah, man. - See you soon.
- Yes. Thank you.
- Do you think we're gonna hear back from Veronica or Raven
at all, today, soon, when?
- I mean-- - Is it gonna happen?
- I would hope so, but I think whoever this is,
they just need a little bit more time.
I'm willing to give them a little bit more time,
but it feels like they are ready to come clean.
- Well, I think they realize, like, the time is up.
Okay.
Sitting here, chilling in my room.
It's, like, 10:15 p.m.,
and I just finally got a text.
"Hey, it's Raven. Can you talk?"
Oh, boy. Calling Kamie.
[clears throat]
[line trills]
- Hey. You in bed?
- Well, I just got a text.
- I'm just gonna come down there.
- All right. I'll see you in a second.
- All right. Let's go.
[tense music]
♪ ♪
I'm on, like, the complete opposite end.
- Good. Get your workout. Reese will be proud.
- All right. So let's text Raven back.
"Hey, Raven."
- Did you come over with no shoes?
- Yeah. What am I wearing shoes for?
- Oh, my God. - "Yes, I can talk."
[phone ringing] Oh. Oh. Oh, Washington, D.C.
But it says spam risk, which is kind of weird.
- 'Cause she is a spam risk. - Oh, 'cause it's Google.
Hello?
- Hi. Raven, right? Hey.
- How you doing?
- Okay. So you know Reese?
Reese has been talking to Jesica, and that is you?
You've been Jesica?
- Is that the gist of it?
- I'm happy you called.
We'd love to get you and Reese in the same room,
clear the air,
and hopefully find some sort of path forward.
- Okay.
- I just want him to be...
- What the hell does she mean by kinky?
- Yeah, I mean, look, I haven't known Reese very long,
but he's very open-minded and, like, open-hearted.
And he wants to speak to you.
So what's the reality
of trying to get you to meet up with us tomorrow?
- Okay, we'll talk to you in the morning,
then you can tell us where and when is convenient to meet.
- Okay. Thanks, Raven. Bye.
- What kind of show you got me on, Nev?
- Kinky? - What does she mean?
- I don't know.
- But also, like--okay. Judgment-free zone.
- Sure. - Sure.
She trying to walk him like a dog?
'Cause I can't promise that he's gonna be into that.
- Yeah, I don't think she felt comfortable saying
whatever she wanted to say to us.
- I don't know what she wanted to say,
but I don't know if it's appropriate for MTV.
- You kidding me?
Have you seen any other shows on this channel?
- True. - All right. Let's call Reese.
[line trills]
- We just got off the phone with Raven.
- Well, it's hard to say.
But she admitted that she is Jesica.
I said, "Well, can you meet us in Jersey tomorrow?
'Cause I know Reese would like to meet you."
And she's like, "Yeah, I think I can do that,
but I want you to tell him to keep an open-mind."
And then it got really weird, 'cause she was like,
"Well, I'm into some kinky stuff."
- She definitely has more to share,
but she wouldn't do it over the phone.
- She said--
- She said she could meet us tomorrow.
So in the morning, she said, "Text me."
And that she'll meet us somewhere around Asbury Park.
So look, we'll just come over to your place in the morning,
and hopefully she's given us somewhere to meet by then.
- All right. Good night. - Bye.
- Kinky [bleep].
- Let's spend the rest of our evening
trying to imagine what "kinky" could mean
for Raven, all right?
- I don't want to. - Just think about it.
- She's gonna bring a dog collar.
- Let me just-- - [bleep] creep.
She's going to walk him like a dog.
- Take your socks off. - Get the [bleep]--
no free feet.
- Show me your feet. - No free feet.
[tense music]
- All right, Raven says she'll meet us today.
- Mm-hmm.
- Is she calling a kink this idea
that she likes to, like, you know--
essentially is cat-- can catfishing be a kink?
- There probably is a whole Reddit forum about this.
- Right, people who just love...
- Catfishing for kinks.
- Getting off talking to people as, like, hot other people.
All right.
Well, let's find out what's really going on.
- Mm-hmm. - All right.
So let's check in with Raven.
- That's not her name. - "Good morning, Raven.
"Excited to meet up today.
Let me know when and where is good for you."
- Everybody has kinks. You're lying if you don't.
And the people who say that they don't,
they're just too afraid to admit.
[phone dings] [gasps]
- Ooh. It's Raven.
- Uh-huh. - "Good morning.
"If Reese is cool with what we talked about,
we can meet at Turkey Swamp Park."
I said, "That's great news. I'll see you then."
- All right. - [sighs]
- Let us go.
- I mean, you know what? I'm gonna put it in S.
- Why? - Feeling sporty.
- Oh, wow. - I got the sport jacket.
Putting it in S today.
I wish there was a K for kinky.
Just throw it to kink mode.
[upbeat music]
♪ ♪
[doorbell chimes]
- Okay. Good morning.
- Great morning. - Great, great morning.
- Yes. - Great morning.
- Yes. Yes.
- A front seat for you.
- Oh, you too. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you.
- This whole kinky thing has me totally thrown.
Has Jesica ever alluded to or tried
to get kinky with you via DMs?
Has she ever, like-- - Oh, like some nasty talk?
- Yeah. Or anything. - Oh, yeah, yeah.
- Oh, she has? - Yes, nasty talk. Yes.
- Alluding to sex for sure. - Yes.
- But nothing like, "I'm gonna"...
- Walk you like a dog.
- "Wrap your feet in bacon and, like, put whipped cream
up in your butt [bleep]." Nothing like that, right?
- Nah, no whipped cream in my butt [bleep].
- Okay. Well, I don't know.
- Nah, nah. - Not yet.
- The point is, we don't know
what the hell we're going to find.
- No, no.
- But I think it is good to keep an open mind.
- I have been.
My whole night, I've been preparing myself
with every possibility and being okay.
[dramatic music]
- All right. Here we are.
- I don't think I've ever felt this much suspense in my life.
- I don't like the vibes here.
- Why do I feel like I'm in a horror movie?
- Well, there's other parked cars.
Do you see anything?
- No. Where do we go?
- And I guess we could just poke around, right?
I think we should just check it out.
- I see somebody over there. - Where?
- Straight ahead. Over there.
Right behind these poles. - Oh.
You see it? - Oh, oh. Oh, yeah.
- See? How do we go to the--
- Okay. - Is that her?
- I guess we have to go this way.
- [gas
This is freaking me th[blee ] out.
- Oh, I think--that looks like a girl, right?
- Yeah. - It kind of looks like--
it's shaped like Jesica.
They hiding?
- This is probably our Raven. - Uh-huh.
- All right. My heart is pounding right now.
[suspenseful music]
- Hello.
♪ ♪
Raven?
- Oh, [bleep].
- Raven?
[dramatic music]
- Oh, [bleep]. I've seen that person before.
- How are you? - How you doing? Nev.
- Good. Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you too.
- You know them? - Yeah.
I think I seen that person. - Really?
- Real familiar. - Really?
- Real familiar. Yes.
- Let's go talk to them.
♪ ♪
- Hello.
- Hi. How are you?
- Good. How are you?
- I'm Kamie.
- I'm Remy. - Nice to meet you.
- What'd you say your name was?
- Remy. both: Remy?
- Okay. And obviously, this is Reese.
- Hello. - What's up?
- Hello, Reese.
- Are you from--where you from? - I'm from Jersey.
- You from Jersey? - Do you know Remy?
- He's real familiar? Do you--have you seen me?
Do you know me?
How do you know me? - Yeah.
- At the club.
- Me, you, and my girl.
- Oh. - Okay.
- So before you started talking to him?
- Correct. He just came to us. Well, we walked to the bar.
He came, walked up to us, and he introduced himself.
Very nice. Offered us drinks. So we just all had a good time.
- Mm-hmm. - Okay.
- Just because we have such a good time,
I just wanted to get to know him more.
And also because I just think he's very attractive.
- I mean, I do have a lot of gay friends,
but I'm not bisexual.
I am straight.
- So did you then immediately create a Jesica profile,
or did you already have the Jesica profile?
- No, I already had the Jesica profile.
- So do you do this to other people?
- Well, I only do this to people
that I'm attracted to, and it's not catfishing.
It's more like just getting to know them
to protect myself and my identity.
And once I get to know them,
if they're down to be with another guy,
then I speak to the person as me.
But Jesica is just more to get to know the person.
- Sure. Okay.
- Just for that.
- I wanna--there's more to talk about there,
but before we get too far into that,
what's up with Raven?
Is that also a profile of yours?
- No, that's actually a friend of mine.
- But Raven called us last night.
That wasn't you?
- No, but you said you were Raven.
- No, that was Raven, my friend.
- Wait, but when you texted me this morning,
you said, "Hey, it's Raven."
- That was Raven. - That was actually Raven?
- Yes, Raven is real. She's my friend.
- So Raven--I was texting with Raven
and made plans to meet you here,
and then she told you that?
- Correct.
- So we haven't actually texted?
Why were you giving Raven's number to Reese?
- So that he can speak to my friend.
- So I could talk to a girl?
- So Raven called him? - Yes.
- And left him that voicemail? - That's--this [bleep] is wild.
- But then at some point in talking to Reese,
you knew that he was heterosexual
and only interested in talking to women.
And you were then trying to catfish him
and fool him into thinking that he was talking to a girl
by enlisting your girl friend to call him on the phone.
- No, that was actually just to keep the role going.
So untilotthe question, which I never got ,
I was taking it slow.
- Okay. - I never got to that question.
- But you have in the past
with other guys that you've talked to...
- Yes. - And asked,
"Hey, would you ever think about seeing a guy?"
And in some cases, they said, "Yes"?
- Yes.
- In which case you'd say, "Oh, this is really me,"
or, "Oh, you should meet my friend"?
- No, then I'll be like, "Okay, well I have a friend,"
and then I send the picture.
- So you never admitted that you were Jesica.
You just sort of shuffled them into--
- Correct. Correct.
- Okay. Interesting. Okay. So, I mean, it is catfishing.
- It is. - Right.
And you know that's not okay. - Yeah.
But in a way of, like, just to find out
what type of person they are.
- But wouldn't it be faster just to message them
as you and say, like,
"Hey, it was so nice meeting you.
Thanks for the drinks. I had a nice time.
Would love to do it again." - I never said I didn't--
I didn't never say I didn't do that.
I do do that. - Oh, okay.
- But the ones that I don't add
is the one that I'm sketchy about.
The ones I'm sketchy about,
then I find out through Jesica first.
I don't wanna put myself on the spot where I'm afraid
because of the fact that these people
are hanging out in the spots that I go to.
So I'm protecting myself, my identity.
- Have you had any experiences with guys
that you were interested in that were negative?
Were you--
- That's why I use Jesica, because I have.
They started getting nasty.
Like, "I will [bleep] you up."
That's when I started using her to protect myself.
- Mm-hmm. - But why not make
a fake Instagram of a guy and DM them
and see if they'll talk to a guy?
- Okay. - Yeah.
- A guy that's on the DL is not gonna tell another man,
especially on Instagram, that they're gay.
- Interesting. I mean, look, it's come up
on the show once or twice before.
- Mm-hmm. - The delicate dance...
- 'Cause it's definitely delicate.
- Of a gay man who's interested in men
who you think present as straight
who are also into guys.
And trying to find those guys is tricky.
- Is this the kink that Raven was referring to?
- Yes.
- Any kink is fine as long as it doesn't hurt anyone,
and it's consensual,
but the kink that you seem to have
does not seem to be consensual.
- How? - It's not consensual
if you're trying to lure men in with a picture of a girl,
and then coercing them to hook up with you.
- The thing is, once I know
that they're straight, it's over.
I'm not forcing anyone. I'm not trying to turn anyone.
I'm not saying like, "Oh, let's hang out
"with my girlfriend. Let's get drunk
and see if I can turn him." No. It's over.
- But Reese isn't bi.
So your read on him was way off.
- Right. - I guess the question is,
how long were you planning on doing this with Reese?
Like, how long does it usually take you to gauge
where the guys are at that you're talking to?
- Usually within, like, a week. Depending on the person,
within, like, a week or two. - So quick.
- Very quick. - So it did--
- With Reese, I couldn't be that quick,
because I just don't want him to think she was fake.
I want him to think that she was real,
so that when I got to that question,
his answer will be honest.
- That's the problem, though.
You let this go on for months, leading him on the whole time.
That's not okay.
You have got to stop doing this.
- I know. I'm sorry.
- You deserve to be with somebody who is not afraid
to be with you from your own page.
You deserve to be with somebody who is just as proud
to be with you as you are to be with them.
And you shouldn't have to cower behind any kind of fake page
to get interest from someone.
But I think that through a little bit more,
we c finanbetter ways for you to protect yourself.
- Yes.
- I mean, honestly, the way you're explaining it,
at first when I saw you, I was really upset.
Like, [bleep], like, "This is what I didn't want."
- And I'm sorry. I understand.
- You know, but I get it.
And I'm sorry
that that's what you have to, you know, deal with.
I don't agree... - Of course.
- But I understand, and, you know,
I just hope that you go about it differently next time.
And I think you will find-- if you go about it that way,
I think you'll find what you deserve a lot faster.
You know, you seem like a cool person, you feel me?
So, you know, we could go out. We can hang out.
- Cool. - I want a drink next time.
- Okay. That's true. - You owe me a drink.
- You definitely owe him a drink.
- You owe me a whole night of [bleep] drinks.
- Yes. I do. For this, I do. - Cool? Shots.
- I'm sorry. - Shots.
- I'm so sorry. Shots. - For sure.
- Thanks for putting yourself out there.
Thanks for being so understanding
and nonjudgmental.
- No, thank you guys for coming in.
Once again, sorry for wasting your time.
- Let me--[bleep], I do hugs, man.
If you need some good energy for yourself.
- Please. Oh, my God. Thank you so much.
I'm so sorry.
- You know, just shoot your shots.
[laughter] - You are beautiful.
- So are you. And just be safe. - No, I will.
- 'Cause I know these streets are scary.
- Yeah.
- But there's a lot of people who aren't.
- Nice meeting you. Nice meeting you.
- All right, well, should we all get outta here?
- ♪ If you fall ♪
- You know, I gotta say,
to put yourself out there, it was brave.
It took a lot of courage to do this.
- Thank you. You're so sweet.
- I think it's gonna help a lot of people.
- ♪ You are not alone ♪
♪ You are not alone ♪
[bell dings] all: Hey.
- Great morning. - Great morning.
- What is there to know about you and Remy?
Have you guys talked?
- Yo, listen. We did go out. We hung out.
All night, he bought my drinks.
He stuck true to his promise.
Remy's actually a very, very dope person.
- Oh, my God.
So are you dating anybody or what?
- I actually am. - What? What?
- Are you in a relationship? - Yeah.
I took a leap of faith, and I'm still falling.
- That's great.
- Maybe Remy catfishing you was exactly what you needed...
- Mm.
- To prep you for the real thing.
- Wow, Nev. I never looked at it like that.
Damn, I might have to buy you drinks next time.
- Exactly. - And us obviously.
- Yeah. - 100,000%.
- To growth. - Yep. Good luck.
- Thank you. - Later, bud.
- Have a good one. Or a great one.
[bell dings] - How you guys doing?
- Hey. - Hey.
- Remy. - We talked to Reese.
He said that you guys hung out. - Yes.
I'm so happy that he was open enough li,
be able to hang out with me again.
And he gets chill.
There is guys out there that are straight
and don't mind hanging out with a gay boy.
- Love that.
- Do you worry in the event that you meet some guy
that you suspect might be DL, you might still use
that approach of trying to talk to him as a woman?
- No. If I'm trying to get someone,
I will use my profile which is me.
- That's much better than where we started.
- Yes, of course.
- Remy, happy this all worked out.
You guys are now actually friends,
which is such a--such a win.
- Yes. But thank you so much, you guys, for everything.
- And we can't wait to see what's next for Remy.
- Yeah. - Thank you.
- Bye. - Bye.
He claims to be a famous singer.
- He's really kind and loving.
- And you FaceTimed, - You are 100% sure...
- His face? - It was that guy?
- Yes. - Hi. Can you hear us?
- This is your last chance. Come on with Zoom.
Show us who you are.