1 00:00:00,919 --> 00:00:02,712 ABBIE: Previously on Sleepy Hollow... 2 00:00:02,837 --> 00:00:06,841 Hello, this is Tom Mison and I'm playing Ichabod Crane. 3 00:00:07,842 --> 00:00:10,011 Hi, I'm Mark Goffman, exec producer 4 00:00:10,095 --> 00:00:13,682 and writer of this lovely finale for season two. 5 00:00:16,101 --> 00:00:19,854 MISON: And a very good finale it is as well. GOFFMAN: It was so much fun. 6 00:00:19,938 --> 00:00:22,357 MISON: Yeah. GOFFMAN: A really, really fun episode. 7 00:00:23,024 --> 00:00:25,360 So, Tom, where are... 8 00:00:25,443 --> 00:00:26,986 Tom and I are not in the same place right now. 9 00:00:27,112 --> 00:00:28,530 We're both watching live together... 10 00:00:28,613 --> 00:00:30,407 MISON: We're not even in the same continent. 11 00:00:30,490 --> 00:00:32,033 (GOFFMAN LAUGHS) 12 00:00:32,450 --> 00:00:35,704 This is the wonders of modern technology. I'm in London. 13 00:00:35,787 --> 00:00:39,165 GOFFMAN: That's fantastic. Well, thank you for doing this. 14 00:00:39,249 --> 00:00:41,584 - This is really cool. - MISON: No, it's a pleasure. 15 00:00:42,627 --> 00:00:44,504 GOFFMAN: Here we are... This is still all the set up. 16 00:00:44,587 --> 00:00:46,881 We had a slightly longer "Previously on." 17 00:00:47,507 --> 00:00:51,302 Because really, episodes 17 and 18 were continuous. 18 00:00:54,222 --> 00:00:57,475 I love all the... Paul Edwards directed this episode. 19 00:00:57,559 --> 00:01:02,021 Really just knocked it out of the park. So many just great little details. 20 00:01:02,105 --> 00:01:03,648 MISON: Yeah, he's grand. 21 00:01:04,190 --> 00:01:07,944 GOFFMAN: But then this scene, actually, was shot by Len Weisman. 22 00:01:08,528 --> 00:01:12,782 And we shot it earlier in the season actually. 23 00:01:12,866 --> 00:01:15,535 But it's such a terrific battle sequence. 24 00:01:16,786 --> 00:01:20,623 Really, just incredible. We've been looking for a place... 25 00:01:20,707 --> 00:01:23,042 - (LAUGHS) I love the little hat. - MISON: The hat. 26 00:01:24,836 --> 00:01:26,045 It's also nice... 27 00:01:26,129 --> 00:01:30,675 It's always nice seeing Ichabod in the thick of it and winning. 28 00:01:32,010 --> 00:01:36,097 Because so often you see Ichabod and he goes up against demons 29 00:01:36,473 --> 00:01:39,893 and then is more often than not punched to the ground. 30 00:01:40,477 --> 00:01:43,605 Leaving it open for Abbie to come in and finish the deed. 31 00:01:43,688 --> 00:01:46,941 But here you see Crane the war hero. 32 00:01:47,108 --> 00:01:48,985 GOFFMAN: What was incredibly important to me... 33 00:01:49,068 --> 00:01:50,862 You and I discussed this at the beginning, 34 00:01:50,945 --> 00:01:53,281 it's a very different Crane we wanted to establish. 35 00:01:53,364 --> 00:01:58,244 This is him in his world, his element. He's very much in command. 36 00:01:59,037 --> 00:02:02,582 There's no questioning of the reality around him. 37 00:02:02,874 --> 00:02:06,795 And he is a man of action and he is a war hero. 38 00:02:06,878 --> 00:02:11,049 And I really think that the way you play is brilliant. 39 00:02:12,467 --> 00:02:18,014 It's so nice to see him get established firmly in the opening of this film. 40 00:02:18,223 --> 00:02:20,850 This is the character we're going to get to know. 41 00:02:20,934 --> 00:02:22,936 - The Ichabod Crane we didn't see before. - MISON: Yeah. 42 00:02:23,019 --> 00:02:25,980 MISON: And to see him in his natural environment. 43 00:02:26,064 --> 00:02:30,568 And by seeing him here, I think you get an even greater 44 00:02:30,652 --> 00:02:33,696 understanding of him in the modern day. 45 00:02:35,740 --> 00:02:39,285 Because obviously back then he was a man with responsibilities. 46 00:02:40,078 --> 00:02:41,496 An awful lot of responsibilities. 47 00:02:41,579 --> 00:02:46,209 He's a man with a happy home, with friends, with bosses, 48 00:02:46,292 --> 00:02:49,045 with people who work for him, people work with him. 49 00:02:49,212 --> 00:02:55,134 An entire life was there which you then see by the end of this episode 50 00:02:56,219 --> 00:02:59,597 with the death of Katrina, spoiler alert. 51 00:02:59,681 --> 00:03:03,017 Everything is gone. Everything. 52 00:03:04,310 --> 00:03:11,067 As I said, as our viewers will remember, from the mid-season finale commentary, 53 00:03:12,110 --> 00:03:15,697 his story is definitely one of loss, and this is a nice moment 54 00:03:15,780 --> 00:03:19,033 to see everything that he loses by the end of the season. 55 00:03:19,117 --> 00:03:24,289 But then, of course, gains a new family through Abbie, Irving and Jenny. 56 00:03:24,789 --> 00:03:26,708 GOFFMAN: Yeah. And that's really what we were 57 00:03:26,791 --> 00:03:28,459 trying to leave with the end of the season 58 00:03:28,543 --> 00:03:32,338 is that this is kind of the closure to that loop. 59 00:03:32,422 --> 00:03:37,844 And to see it all come full circle and yet a new beginning with a new family 60 00:03:37,927 --> 00:03:40,221 and the family in his modern world. 61 00:03:40,305 --> 00:03:43,391 And that's why there are a number of parallels between this and the pilot. 62 00:03:43,474 --> 00:03:47,061 This scene is another example of them. 63 00:03:47,145 --> 00:03:50,565 But now we have Ichabod on the other side of the cell. 64 00:03:50,732 --> 00:03:56,404 MISON: This is also... This scene is a great example of Nicole being so brilliant 65 00:03:56,487 --> 00:04:01,743 that you can see there's everything that Abbie just wants to scream out at him. 66 00:04:01,826 --> 00:04:04,203 - GOFFMAN: Yeah. - But knows that won't get anything. 67 00:04:04,287 --> 00:04:05,997 - That won't get her anywhere. - GOFFMAN: Yeah. 68 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,335 MISON: She knows how, although this Ichabod has never met her before, 69 00:04:10,418 --> 00:04:15,590 she's known him for well over a year now, I suppose. 70 00:04:15,673 --> 00:04:18,259 GOFFMAN: Yeah. MISON: And so knows how to play him, 71 00:04:18,343 --> 00:04:20,345 knows what his rules are. 72 00:04:21,179 --> 00:04:25,475 But you can see that she really wants to just shout things out. 73 00:04:25,558 --> 00:04:29,979 And that's the great thing about Nicole, is that you can read her thoughts. 74 00:04:30,229 --> 00:04:34,025 And what's underneath just pours out of her. 75 00:04:34,108 --> 00:04:36,277 GOFFMAN: I just... I loved her in this. 76 00:04:36,361 --> 00:04:38,905 One of the early conversations I had with Nicole, 77 00:04:39,739 --> 00:04:40,782 actually about this scene and some of the others, 78 00:04:40,865 --> 00:04:43,493 was just talking about her savvy 79 00:04:43,785 --> 00:04:48,289 and her ability to, as you said, read Crane. 80 00:04:48,373 --> 00:04:51,793 And even though she's exploding with information 81 00:04:51,876 --> 00:04:55,463 about what's going to happen in the supernatural world that, 82 00:04:55,546 --> 00:04:57,298 at this point, she knows he doesn't know that. 83 00:04:57,382 --> 00:05:00,510 And to just say it, she's already in enough trouble. 84 00:05:00,593 --> 00:05:02,136 She's going to have to play him 85 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:04,889 and just say enough to keep... To pique his interest. 86 00:05:04,973 --> 00:05:07,892 - But not too much. - MISON: Yeah, quite, quite. 87 00:05:09,227 --> 00:05:13,690 The one thing that Paul Edwards and I discussed a lot was 88 00:05:13,773 --> 00:05:19,946 he kept saying, "We need to find something that will draw these two together." 89 00:05:20,029 --> 00:05:25,410 Draw Abbie and Crane together. And it's something that you said to... 90 00:05:25,743 --> 00:05:30,915 We discussed as well, that we want to try and establish in this episode 91 00:05:30,999 --> 00:05:33,710 that no matter where in their lives they meet, 92 00:05:33,793 --> 00:05:38,339 or no matter where in history they meet, they will always have this connection 93 00:05:38,423 --> 00:05:42,218 'cause they're the two witnesses. And where can we find that? 94 00:05:42,677 --> 00:05:44,012 GOFFMAN: Yeah, yeah. 95 00:05:44,095 --> 00:05:47,849 And here's, uh, to do a little reverse man-out-of-time moment here. 96 00:05:48,683 --> 00:05:52,854 Abbie showing the 18th century man a little modern medicine 97 00:05:52,937 --> 00:05:57,358 that alcohol's better as a disinfectant than it is to give him 98 00:05:57,442 --> 00:05:59,861 to get him drunk and numb the pain. 99 00:05:59,944 --> 00:06:01,029 MISON: Yeah. 100 00:06:01,696 --> 00:06:03,406 Their weapons must have been heated. 101 00:06:03,489 --> 00:06:04,490 Weapon. 102 00:06:04,574 --> 00:06:08,453 MISON: I also like Crane's disgust at the decapitations 103 00:06:08,619 --> 00:06:11,497 - that there were rules in this war. - Yeah. 104 00:06:11,581 --> 00:06:15,293 MISON: And you don't disrespect the dead like that. 105 00:06:16,836 --> 00:06:18,296 And this... 106 00:06:19,464 --> 00:06:22,425 This is where you see he's not going to trust her easily. 107 00:06:22,508 --> 00:06:28,014 How many prisoners have offered him up information to try and get themselves out. 108 00:06:28,097 --> 00:06:31,559 - Or false information to get out of the cell. - GOFFMAN: Yeah, I like that... 109 00:06:31,642 --> 00:06:35,897 That you actually walk her away from the other men... 110 00:06:36,731 --> 00:06:40,193 There's enough superstition. There's enough loss on this battlefield, 111 00:06:40,276 --> 00:06:43,780 the last thing these people need to hear is some crazy story. 112 00:06:43,863 --> 00:06:45,198 MISON: Yeah, quite. 113 00:06:45,281 --> 00:06:46,407 ...200 years. 114 00:06:46,908 --> 00:06:48,910 I'm sorry, is this what you've been intimating? 115 00:06:48,993 --> 00:06:49,994 You're from the future? 116 00:06:50,078 --> 00:06:51,079 I know... 117 00:06:51,162 --> 00:06:54,665 GOFFMAN: I love that look that you give her there. It's so fun. 118 00:06:56,292 --> 00:07:01,714 And again, this is a parallel to the speech that Crane gives Abbie 119 00:07:01,798 --> 00:07:05,343 when they're outside the police station and he's talking about 120 00:07:05,426 --> 00:07:09,388 how impossible all of this seems for him. 121 00:07:09,472 --> 00:07:10,473 MISON: Oh, yeah. 122 00:07:10,556 --> 00:07:12,183 This makes no sense. 123 00:07:12,308 --> 00:07:15,144 You say you're here to save me. Yet I'm supposed to die. 124 00:07:15,228 --> 00:07:17,605 You were. You were saved, suspended in time, 125 00:07:17,688 --> 00:07:18,773 until we met, but now... 126 00:07:18,856 --> 00:07:22,151 GOFFMAN: We wanted to play into just how odd the whole thing is 127 00:07:22,235 --> 00:07:24,904 that he died on the battlefield but he didn't really die 128 00:07:24,987 --> 00:07:28,866 'cause he was saved and then suspended. It's a lot to explain. 129 00:07:29,033 --> 00:07:30,743 (BOTH LAUGHING) 130 00:07:31,119 --> 00:07:33,454 MISON: Also, with that moment and there's a moment later 131 00:07:33,538 --> 00:07:39,210 when they're in the carriage together where he actually quite enjoys 132 00:07:40,378 --> 00:07:43,798 debating this weird idea of hers. 133 00:07:44,841 --> 00:07:49,720 And finding what he thinks are flaws in it. The impossibility of certain things. 134 00:07:49,971 --> 00:07:52,306 Even though he's discussing it with a lunatic 135 00:07:52,390 --> 00:07:55,101 in the middle of a terrible battlefield. 136 00:07:55,893 --> 00:08:00,815 GOFFMAN: Well, we wanted to show that Crane has that discerning mind 137 00:08:00,898 --> 00:08:02,441 and he had it back then, too. 138 00:08:02,567 --> 00:08:05,486 And so, he's going to pick apart arguments. 139 00:08:05,570 --> 00:08:08,865 He's going to notice facts like the decapitation and the cauterized wound, 140 00:08:10,074 --> 00:08:11,117 just as Abbie does. 141 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,454 And the two of them are in sync and, yet, trying to make sense of it. 142 00:08:15,913 --> 00:08:18,374 And he's going to call her out. 143 00:08:19,959 --> 00:08:22,962 But now this scene showing, of course, he's got people to answer to 144 00:08:23,045 --> 00:08:25,047 - just like she did in the day. - Exactly. 145 00:08:25,131 --> 00:08:29,093 GOFFMAN: She had Irving to answer to. He's got his own superior officer. 146 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,264 - Who's a bit more of a dick. (LAUGHS) - MISON: Yeah, exactly. 147 00:08:33,347 --> 00:08:37,685 It's always nice watching Crane get a bollocking from a superior officer 148 00:08:37,935 --> 00:08:44,108 to remind you that it makes him a fuller character if you see that he has his place, 149 00:08:44,901 --> 00:08:47,695 which is above some people, below others. 150 00:08:48,446 --> 00:08:50,823 GOFFMAN: And he's now got to sell this, 151 00:08:53,117 --> 00:08:55,536 Sutton on taking Abbie. 152 00:08:55,620 --> 00:08:56,913 It's not part of Sutton's plan. 153 00:08:56,996 --> 00:09:00,791 He's like, "Look, we've got another battle just north of here. 154 00:09:00,875 --> 00:09:03,628 "I need every man on the field. Look what's happened here. 155 00:09:04,462 --> 00:09:06,464 "We don't know whether this woman is reliable. 156 00:09:06,547 --> 00:09:07,840 "It doesn't sound like it." 157 00:09:08,299 --> 00:09:12,094 So, just as Abbie had to convince Irving, 158 00:09:12,178 --> 00:09:15,056 now it's Crane's turn to convince him. 159 00:09:15,264 --> 00:09:17,683 "Let me just transport her. Spend a few... 160 00:09:17,767 --> 00:09:20,937 "Take this three mile ride and then I'll return." 161 00:09:21,854 --> 00:09:25,149 MISON: Another echo to the pilot. GOFFMAN: Right. 162 00:09:25,233 --> 00:09:27,902 MISON: When Abbie asked to transport Crane. 163 00:09:30,613 --> 00:09:33,950 GOFFMAN: Just to up the ante a little bit, unlike modern times, 164 00:09:34,033 --> 00:09:36,494 you screw up here, you face a firing squad. 165 00:09:36,577 --> 00:09:37,620 MISON: Yeah. 166 00:09:37,703 --> 00:09:38,829 (GOFFMAN LAUGHS) 167 00:09:42,166 --> 00:09:44,085 GOFFMAN: This is another little mirror to the pilot 168 00:09:44,168 --> 00:09:46,712 with Abbie trying to adjust the shades 169 00:09:46,796 --> 00:09:52,969 as Crane tried to adjust, or got to play with, the automatic window in Abbie's car. 170 00:09:57,431 --> 00:09:59,100 MISON: I loved this scene. I really enjoyed... 171 00:09:59,183 --> 00:10:02,895 This was actually the very last scene we shot of the season. 172 00:10:04,981 --> 00:10:08,234 We don't often get the chance to just sit and talk. 173 00:10:08,693 --> 00:10:11,821 Often there's stuff that we got to do. We've got to go and get this book, 174 00:10:11,904 --> 00:10:13,281 and we got to find this. 175 00:10:13,364 --> 00:10:17,576 But to just sit opposite Nicole and play a scene together, 176 00:10:18,786 --> 00:10:19,996 that's a treat. 177 00:10:20,079 --> 00:10:23,332 GOFFMAN: Yeah, it was really fun. It was a nice way to end the season. 178 00:10:23,416 --> 00:10:26,585 We were on a sound stage. They had that carriage inside. 179 00:10:26,669 --> 00:10:28,879 It's funny seeing... There was actually a guy out 180 00:10:28,963 --> 00:10:32,008 at the other end pushing it up and down a bit. 181 00:10:32,091 --> 00:10:36,012 And it's all green screen behind them. Behind you guys. 182 00:10:37,054 --> 00:10:39,807 But the scene just... It was so fun. And you're right. 183 00:10:39,890 --> 00:10:44,812 Nice to watch the two of you play this, just sitting across from each other. 184 00:10:44,895 --> 00:10:49,317 As you said, enjoying this crazy... Let's hear where she takes this scene. 185 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,486 Let's see what story... What is she possibly going to make up. 186 00:10:52,611 --> 00:10:55,948 (BOTH CHUCKLE) 187 00:10:58,951 --> 00:11:00,536 MISON: And it's nice 'cause each of them 188 00:11:00,619 --> 00:11:03,831 has an answer to anything that can come up. 189 00:11:04,373 --> 00:11:07,752 GOFFMAN: Yeah. MISON: They both know that they're right. 190 00:11:08,002 --> 00:11:10,171 In fact, there's a moment coming up where 191 00:11:10,254 --> 00:11:14,300 even when she clearly gets into checkmate 192 00:11:14,383 --> 00:11:18,429 with Washington's here, Jefferson's here, Franklin's here. 193 00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:21,599 I remember you coming up because it wasn't in the script 194 00:11:21,682 --> 00:11:23,559 and it was in one of the later takes. 195 00:11:23,642 --> 00:11:25,686 You just came up and said, 196 00:11:25,770 --> 00:11:29,231 about my countering the checkmate 197 00:11:29,315 --> 00:11:33,402 with "General Washington" and "Thomas Jefferson." 198 00:11:33,486 --> 00:11:37,948 Even when she does a winning move, I have to correct her. 199 00:11:38,032 --> 00:11:40,576 GOFFMAN: Yeah. MISON: "Treat those men with respect." 200 00:11:41,619 --> 00:11:44,663 GOFFMAN: Yeah. Well, she's talking about them as historical figures. 201 00:11:44,747 --> 00:11:47,875 And that's what we do today. But these are people to you. 202 00:11:47,958 --> 00:11:52,630 And I like that idea of keeping that alive at every moment in the episode. 203 00:11:53,589 --> 00:11:58,594 And the way both of you just get in each other's face here is really, really great. 204 00:12:01,972 --> 00:12:04,433 MISON: Damn. Damn, yes, Franklin is here. 205 00:12:05,434 --> 00:12:08,312 GOFFMAN: And Tim Busfield is waiting. (LAUGHS) 206 00:12:14,985 --> 00:12:19,115 MISON: And then I couldn't resist at the end getting her to brace herself. 207 00:12:21,784 --> 00:12:24,912 'Cause he knows exactly who she's going to see. 208 00:12:24,995 --> 00:12:26,789 GOFFMAN: Yeah, I like... You added that line. 209 00:12:26,872 --> 00:12:30,876 I forget what the other line was, but I really liked that. 210 00:12:37,007 --> 00:12:39,343 And then we want to establish here, 211 00:12:39,427 --> 00:12:44,515 the horseman having not encountered Crane on that battlefield still has his head. 212 00:12:45,433 --> 00:12:46,934 (BOTH CHUCKLING) 213 00:12:47,768 --> 00:12:49,520 Oh, that could be Crane. No. 214 00:12:51,981 --> 00:12:53,941 MISON: In fact, that is... GOFFMAN: Still looking. 215 00:12:54,275 --> 00:12:58,446 MISON: Steven who was my stand-in for the last two seasons. 216 00:12:59,697 --> 00:13:02,366 That was him lying on the ground mistaken for Crane. 217 00:13:02,741 --> 00:13:07,204 Who actually... It was uncanny whenever he's in my costume. 218 00:13:08,038 --> 00:13:09,206 GOFFMAN: Yeah. 219 00:13:11,208 --> 00:13:12,960 MISON: You can't tell whether it's him or me. 220 00:13:13,043 --> 00:13:15,087 ...and together they're a formidable foe to us both. 221 00:13:16,547 --> 00:13:18,424 So they both must die. 222 00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:21,844 MISON: This is a nice moment. You see a real turn in Katrina. 223 00:13:21,927 --> 00:13:24,680 There's an innocent man who's about to try and run away 224 00:13:24,763 --> 00:13:26,474 and she kills him from behind. 225 00:13:26,557 --> 00:13:30,102 That really shows that she's beyond help now. 226 00:13:30,519 --> 00:13:33,981 GOFFMAN: Yeah, and she also has to say to the horseman, 227 00:13:34,064 --> 00:13:36,192 "I'm not bluffing here. I'm not playing you. 228 00:13:36,275 --> 00:13:37,902 "I'm serious. 229 00:13:38,569 --> 00:13:42,573 "Let me just take that guy out as a little token 230 00:13:42,656 --> 00:13:45,034 "of what my powers are worth to you." 231 00:13:45,117 --> 00:13:48,037 MISON: She's a great baddie, is our Katia. GOFFMAN: Yes. 232 00:13:50,956 --> 00:13:54,168 I couldn't believe when I first arrived here. This is not Wilmington. 233 00:13:54,251 --> 00:13:58,506 This is a city called New Bern that's about two hours away. 234 00:13:58,923 --> 00:14:02,384 But they have a lot of colonial architecture. 235 00:14:03,636 --> 00:14:07,973 It was amazing that you get to see the scope here 236 00:14:08,057 --> 00:14:10,226 that we couldn't always do in Wilmington. 237 00:14:10,309 --> 00:14:15,439 But they cover the street with this mulch, two city blocks worth, 238 00:14:15,981 --> 00:14:22,404 so that we were able to shoot the whole thing as 1781, Sleepy Hollow. 239 00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:25,449 They've never seen a woman in trousers. 240 00:14:25,533 --> 00:14:26,534 (CHUCKLES) 241 00:14:26,617 --> 00:14:28,536 MISON: I love Crane. 242 00:14:29,203 --> 00:14:35,501 It's so interesting to have, obviously, a woman of color back in the 18th century, 243 00:14:35,584 --> 00:14:37,545 and how Crane deals with that. 244 00:14:37,628 --> 00:14:41,715 Because as we know from the pilot, he was a very forward thinking man. 245 00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:43,175 GOFFMAN: Yeah. 246 00:14:43,259 --> 00:14:46,011 MISON: And he's trying to make her feel better 247 00:14:46,095 --> 00:14:48,347 by saying they've never seen a woman in trousers. 248 00:14:48,430 --> 00:14:51,725 GOFFMAN: Right. And the look on Nicole's face. 249 00:14:51,809 --> 00:14:56,188 - She knows that and appreciates it. - MISON: She knows it. Yeah. It's excellent. 250 00:14:57,898 --> 00:15:00,651 You can now brace yourself. There he is. 251 00:15:02,111 --> 00:15:05,823 GOFFMAN: Tim. We knew when we cast him... Yeah. 252 00:15:06,407 --> 00:15:08,367 It was just... It's so funny. 253 00:15:08,450 --> 00:15:11,745 I got to work with him on The West Wing and on Studio 60. 254 00:15:11,829 --> 00:15:14,623 And when his name came up for this role of Benjamin Franklin 255 00:15:14,707 --> 00:15:17,251 at our season premiere, 256 00:15:17,334 --> 00:15:19,253 - it instantly clicked. - Perfect. 257 00:15:19,336 --> 00:15:22,715 GOFFMAN: 'Cause he's smart and he's cunning and he just, 258 00:15:22,798 --> 00:15:25,801 he embraced this role with so much vigor. 259 00:15:26,885 --> 00:15:29,305 MISON: Like that "bonjour" when he opens the door 260 00:15:29,388 --> 00:15:31,098 was just him throwing something. 261 00:15:31,515 --> 00:15:34,268 Every time he opened the door he said something different to us. 262 00:15:34,435 --> 00:15:35,644 (GOFFMAN LAUGHING) 263 00:15:35,728 --> 00:15:39,440 I do hate him with every fiber of my body, 264 00:15:39,523 --> 00:15:43,902 because he's... I've never corpsed so much. 265 00:15:44,778 --> 00:15:48,741 And that seemed to be his mission to try and screw me over at every step. 266 00:15:48,824 --> 00:15:50,242 And it worked. 267 00:15:52,453 --> 00:15:55,539 GOFFMAN: But this scene really turned out just fantastic. 268 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,959 I love the way he's completely bought in, 269 00:15:59,043 --> 00:16:02,546 and so Crane is suddenly like, "Wait a minute." (LAUGHS) 270 00:16:04,006 --> 00:16:06,216 "I had a suspicion but, really." 271 00:16:07,009 --> 00:16:12,931 And he's so enthralled with hearing about everything that's gone right with America. 272 00:16:13,015 --> 00:16:17,311 And the fact that Abbie represents what could be right 273 00:16:17,394 --> 00:16:21,857 and what has to be preserved if America has become this true nation. 274 00:16:22,107 --> 00:16:25,694 The land of opportunity and the home of the free. 275 00:16:26,904 --> 00:16:29,073 MISON: I think the best line is... 276 00:16:30,199 --> 00:16:33,160 I mean, he just discovers that a woman is here from the future. 277 00:16:33,243 --> 00:16:35,329 It's incredible. It's mind blowing. 278 00:16:35,412 --> 00:16:37,373 And the first thing he wants to find out is whether 279 00:16:37,456 --> 00:16:41,043 he's on a better dollar bill than Jefferson. 280 00:16:41,126 --> 00:16:42,461 GOFFMAN: (LAUGHS) Yeah. 281 00:16:43,504 --> 00:16:45,881 The two. Quite a cumbersome bill. 282 00:16:46,048 --> 00:16:48,717 MISON: He's the kindred, you know, could be anywhere. 283 00:16:48,801 --> 00:16:50,344 (BOTH LAUGH) 284 00:16:52,012 --> 00:16:55,599 GOFFMAN: A disappointment of the season was we weren't able to work him back in 285 00:16:55,683 --> 00:16:57,685 'cause he's such an incredible character. 286 00:16:57,768 --> 00:17:01,355 And so I thought, at least, I'll give him a cameo in this episode. 287 00:17:01,438 --> 00:17:03,107 ...so crazed with grief after her son died... 288 00:17:03,190 --> 00:17:05,693 The Grand Grimoire cannot heal her guilt. 289 00:17:05,776 --> 00:17:08,195 It can only cause more destruction. 290 00:17:08,278 --> 00:17:10,406 This complicates things. 291 00:17:10,489 --> 00:17:12,032 So do we get the Grimoire from her? 292 00:17:12,116 --> 00:17:15,411 MISON: Tim Busfield really strikes a good balance between 293 00:17:16,745 --> 00:17:20,457 the faintly ridiculous Franklin and the perverse Franklin. 294 00:17:20,749 --> 00:17:23,127 But also just the brilliant man. 295 00:17:23,711 --> 00:17:25,045 GOFFMAN: Mmm-hmm. 296 00:17:25,129 --> 00:17:30,217 MISON: He and Jefferson are leagues ahead of anyone else in the country. 297 00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:35,013 Even in the world, Franklin was revered when he went to France and to England. 298 00:17:35,097 --> 00:17:37,933 And here he is taking control, 299 00:17:38,684 --> 00:17:41,311 teaching the witnesses a thing or two. 300 00:17:41,645 --> 00:17:43,939 - It's a lovely balance. - GOFFMAN: Yeah. 301 00:17:45,149 --> 00:17:48,193 Yeah. And this is... I like this little moment here 302 00:17:48,277 --> 00:17:52,656 where Abbie's not going to let this moment pass without asking 303 00:17:53,824 --> 00:17:56,702 a little bit more about the secret organization, 304 00:17:56,785 --> 00:18:01,248 who knows about the witnesses, and then he says there are levels. 305 00:18:02,166 --> 00:18:05,919 Crane has been groomed for some time so this gives her hope. 306 00:18:06,003 --> 00:18:09,423 Yeah, this line, here."How many people know about the secret war?" 307 00:18:09,506 --> 00:18:11,842 I'm surprised you haven't encountered others in your era. 308 00:18:12,384 --> 00:18:14,970 GOFFMAN: So a tease that maybe we'll find out more 309 00:18:15,053 --> 00:18:18,140 at some point about people in our era. 310 00:18:21,727 --> 00:18:26,523 And then, of course, he also sets up what we need to know about time travel. 311 00:18:27,232 --> 00:18:31,820 Because anybody who's ever worked on a time travel film or even watched one, 312 00:18:31,904 --> 00:18:34,698 probably realizes there is a paradox. 313 00:18:34,782 --> 00:18:40,078 And you get the ice-cream headache very quickly 314 00:18:40,162 --> 00:18:44,458 when you start to try to work out time travel, 315 00:18:44,541 --> 00:18:45,959 and what happens in the future, 316 00:18:46,043 --> 00:18:48,420 and how many Katrinas there would be in the past. 317 00:18:48,504 --> 00:18:50,714 And when you come back, what's different. 318 00:18:51,715 --> 00:18:54,718 But when I thought of the idea of... 319 00:18:54,802 --> 00:18:58,722 We'll just undo it and put it back exactly how it was before. 320 00:18:59,056 --> 00:19:01,350 Then we can have the entire episode of time travel. 321 00:19:01,433 --> 00:19:06,563 And I can screw up everything in history and then get back to a place... 322 00:19:06,688 --> 00:19:10,526 MISON: Speaking of screwing everything up in history, here it comes. 323 00:19:15,447 --> 00:19:17,658 GOFFMAN: Yeah, that would have changed things. 324 00:19:18,242 --> 00:19:19,451 MISON: Just a perfect moment. 325 00:19:19,535 --> 00:19:23,330 What a wonderful prop, as well. That bomb, the Franklin. 326 00:19:28,418 --> 00:19:29,545 GOFFMAN: Yeah. 327 00:19:31,088 --> 00:19:33,465 These are the kind of things that we get to do on this show 328 00:19:33,549 --> 00:19:36,510 that's rare in network TV. 329 00:19:36,593 --> 00:19:40,222 And we do it on a weekly basis. Let's just blow up a set. 330 00:19:41,431 --> 00:19:44,101 MISON: Let's cut Benjamin Franklin's head off and then blow up the set. 331 00:19:44,184 --> 00:19:46,228 GOFFMAN: (LAUGHS) Yeah, that's right. 332 00:19:48,564 --> 00:19:53,861 This is the kind of thing that you normally get to do once a season. 333 00:19:54,611 --> 00:19:56,905 Not even once an episode, and here it is. 334 00:19:56,989 --> 00:20:01,618 Just another explosion in their second act, 335 00:20:01,702 --> 00:20:03,161 not even the climax. 336 00:20:03,328 --> 00:20:07,624 MISON: And that there was another moment that Paul Edwards and I discussed. 337 00:20:08,876 --> 00:20:11,962 Crane fights against this amazing Hessian 338 00:20:13,171 --> 00:20:15,924 who goes straight in with the swords and the Hessian wins. 339 00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:19,011 Franklin's head's cut off, the whole thing explodes. 340 00:20:19,094 --> 00:20:22,097 And the first thing Crane does is he grabs a candlestick holder 341 00:20:22,180 --> 00:20:23,765 and he wants to go back into the fight. 342 00:20:23,849 --> 00:20:27,060 - GOFFMAN: Yeah. - I think that says an awful lot about Crane. 343 00:20:27,144 --> 00:20:29,479 - Like we said the "War hero." - GOFFMAN: Yeah. 344 00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:33,275 This Crane is going to refuse to accept any kind of defeat. 345 00:20:33,358 --> 00:20:36,320 And he's going to fight in battle. 346 00:20:36,695 --> 00:20:41,909 It took Abbie to hold him back here. Which is also why Abbie lands back in jail. 347 00:20:41,992 --> 00:20:44,912 Anyone who's going to hold Crane back has got to be a spy, 348 00:20:44,995 --> 00:20:46,663 has got to be somebody working on the other side. 349 00:20:46,747 --> 00:20:48,373 ...predilection for the supernatural, 350 00:20:48,457 --> 00:20:51,919 and you led a Hessian assassin to his very doorstep. 351 00:20:52,002 --> 00:20:54,254 He wasn't after Franklin. 352 00:20:54,338 --> 00:20:55,923 MISON: And the anger here with Crane, of course 353 00:20:56,006 --> 00:20:59,384 is as much with himself, as with Abbie. 354 00:20:59,509 --> 00:21:01,845 What an idiot to trust this woman. 355 00:21:02,971 --> 00:21:04,264 GOFFMAN: Yeah, he... 356 00:21:04,348 --> 00:21:07,267 I like that, that he holds himself responsible for this. 357 00:21:07,351 --> 00:21:08,518 We are partners. 358 00:21:08,977 --> 00:21:10,437 - We're partners? - Mmm-hmm. 359 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,231 You talk about this partnership and about this bond 360 00:21:13,315 --> 00:21:17,027 and yet you keep from me vital information of the very thing you claim. 361 00:21:17,152 --> 00:21:20,238 GOFFMAN: And here he's also noticed that Crane, 362 00:21:20,447 --> 00:21:23,450 constantly aware of everything that's going on, 363 00:21:23,533 --> 00:21:27,371 has noticed Abbie had this private conversation with Franklin. 364 00:21:27,704 --> 00:21:31,458 Clearly, that meant something. What was this about the witch? 365 00:21:32,042 --> 00:21:35,128 But since the fate of the world depends on you believing me... 366 00:21:35,212 --> 00:21:37,631 GOFFMAN: And this is the one thing that Abbie's been so hesitant 367 00:21:37,714 --> 00:21:39,383 to tell him from the beginning. 368 00:21:39,466 --> 00:21:41,885 The Horseman's ally, the witch... 369 00:21:42,803 --> 00:21:44,096 Is your wife Katrina. 370 00:21:46,932 --> 00:21:49,142 GOFFMAN: As if he hasn't heard enough today. 371 00:21:49,267 --> 00:21:50,769 (BOTH LAUGH) 372 00:21:51,561 --> 00:21:53,480 May God have mercy on your soul. 373 00:21:53,563 --> 00:21:56,692 Crane, wait. She's pregnant with your son. 374 00:21:58,193 --> 00:22:00,153 You'll see for yourself. 375 00:22:01,613 --> 00:22:05,784 MISON: Nicole walks a very, very fine line quite brilliantly in this scene. 376 00:22:07,452 --> 00:22:09,955 All of the information that she's telling Crane... 377 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,541 - GOFFMAN: Yeah. - She knows it's going to destroy him. 378 00:22:12,624 --> 00:22:17,462 She knows it's going to leave her in jail. 379 00:22:18,088 --> 00:22:21,591 There's no way that he's gonna believe her after all this. 380 00:22:21,675 --> 00:22:24,553 And it's so beautifully done. How difficult it is for her to say it, 381 00:22:24,636 --> 00:22:26,430 to upset her friend. 382 00:22:28,265 --> 00:22:30,559 GOFFMAN: Yeah, on top of everything else, you're right, 383 00:22:30,767 --> 00:22:31,810 to have to tell him, 384 00:22:31,893 --> 00:22:34,354 to break this news to him under any circumstances. 385 00:22:34,438 --> 00:22:38,734 But to break this news to him knowing the impact it's gonna have on her. 386 00:22:41,862 --> 00:22:44,156 And then even to try to describe 387 00:22:44,239 --> 00:22:47,034 the one bit of proof she can come up with, that cell phone, 388 00:22:47,117 --> 00:22:50,287 how do you describe to someone from 1781 389 00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:54,124 that, in lock up, there is a device 390 00:22:54,207 --> 00:22:55,542 that will prove my innocence. 391 00:22:55,625 --> 00:22:57,544 But you're gonna have to figure out how to use it 392 00:22:57,627 --> 00:22:59,296 and it has a passcode. 393 00:22:59,504 --> 00:23:02,215 MISON: Oh, yes! We skipped over that bit, didn't we? 394 00:23:02,299 --> 00:23:03,341 GOFFMAN: That'll come up. 395 00:23:03,425 --> 00:23:07,054 MISON: Abbie's password, her passcode being Crane's birthday. 396 00:23:07,763 --> 00:23:11,933 Your stirring up the ship has no end, Mark, with that. 397 00:23:12,809 --> 00:23:14,561 GOFFMAN: Yeah, she... 398 00:23:17,314 --> 00:23:19,316 She wanted it that way. 399 00:23:22,110 --> 00:23:24,821 Just in case he ever needed to use her phone. 400 00:23:24,905 --> 00:23:26,490 (MISON CHUCKLING) 401 00:23:27,991 --> 00:23:29,576 This again, another scene. 402 00:23:29,659 --> 00:23:33,789 This was actually shot in New Bern and that's not a set. 403 00:23:33,872 --> 00:23:36,583 - That's the actual interior of this house. - MISON: Oh, yeah, yeah. 404 00:23:36,666 --> 00:23:38,126 GOFFMAN: Just amazing. 405 00:23:40,045 --> 00:23:43,215 Crane returning home. What was this like for you? 406 00:23:44,466 --> 00:23:47,385 We'd never seen where you lived in 1781 before. 407 00:23:47,594 --> 00:23:52,474 MISON: No. I remembered sitting in here with Katia 408 00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:56,228 and with Julia Rusthoven, our brilliant costumier. 409 00:23:58,271 --> 00:24:01,274 Being very excited by being in the Crane family home. 410 00:24:01,358 --> 00:24:05,529 And it shows again, it's a perfect example of how much he's lost. 411 00:24:06,947 --> 00:24:10,367 It's surprisingly opulent, his home. 412 00:24:13,995 --> 00:24:16,081 GOFFMAN: Well, he's doing okay, you know. 413 00:24:16,164 --> 00:24:17,833 He is a man on the rise, 414 00:24:17,916 --> 00:24:19,960 and that was part of what we wanted to show 415 00:24:20,043 --> 00:24:23,547 is that he has such a future here, so he thought, 416 00:24:24,297 --> 00:24:27,342 that there's a lot at risk, to throw it all out 417 00:24:27,425 --> 00:24:31,054 for what a mad woman is saying in a jail cell. 418 00:24:34,808 --> 00:24:39,938 Of course, there's this knife behind his back during the course of this scene. 419 00:24:42,691 --> 00:24:45,610 And all she needs to know is where Abbie is 420 00:24:45,694 --> 00:24:48,905 and then she can take care of her husband. 421 00:24:55,912 --> 00:24:58,790 MISON: And then he clocks it, at that moment, Abbie's right. 422 00:24:58,874 --> 00:25:00,584 Abbie's telling the truth. 423 00:25:01,251 --> 00:25:02,377 GOFFMAN: Yeah, and there's just too many things 424 00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:03,503 that don't make sense now 425 00:25:03,587 --> 00:25:07,549 and seeing this book, that was the final straw. 426 00:25:07,716 --> 00:25:12,220 MISON: Luckily, called away by Washington who conveniently is back from Virginia. 427 00:25:13,346 --> 00:25:16,099 GOFFMAN: Well, he heard about the meshugas. 428 00:25:16,183 --> 00:25:17,601 MISON: The failure, yeah. 429 00:25:17,684 --> 00:25:21,062 GOFFMAN: And when that battle didn't go the way he... 430 00:25:21,146 --> 00:25:23,481 He knew he had sent Crane to that battle scene. 431 00:25:23,565 --> 00:25:24,941 - Or to that battle sequence. - MISON: Quite. 432 00:25:25,025 --> 00:25:26,026 GOFFMAN: So he was on his way back. 433 00:25:29,905 --> 00:25:34,284 Ho, there. The woman's personal effects. Where are they? 434 00:25:37,495 --> 00:25:38,496 Keep what you fancy. 435 00:25:38,705 --> 00:25:40,540 Has Sutton transferred her? 436 00:25:40,624 --> 00:25:42,709 Not yet. He was planning to pay her a visit though. 437 00:25:42,792 --> 00:25:46,296 GOFFMAN: Also, I just loved the way you took your time 438 00:25:46,379 --> 00:25:47,797 with her effects here. 439 00:25:48,381 --> 00:25:49,716 (MISON CHUCKLES) 440 00:25:49,966 --> 00:25:52,928 I'm just... Anything to ramp up the tension. 441 00:25:53,803 --> 00:25:58,141 We know what may happen to Abbie and there's the cell phone. 442 00:26:03,813 --> 00:26:06,024 MISON: It's such a treat trying to work out 443 00:26:06,107 --> 00:26:09,319 how Ichabod would react to certain things. 444 00:26:10,737 --> 00:26:13,073 GOFFMAN: What was your process for this? 445 00:26:16,326 --> 00:26:19,162 - MISON: Well, actually... - (GOFFMAN LAUGHS) 446 00:26:19,246 --> 00:26:23,166 The moment coming up, that "slide to unlock" moment, 447 00:26:23,833 --> 00:26:26,253 came up at the very end of shooting that scene. 448 00:26:26,336 --> 00:26:30,340 So it was only when we had finished the wide shots, the medium shots 449 00:26:30,423 --> 00:26:33,051 and gone in for the close ups that I realized, 450 00:26:33,134 --> 00:26:35,720 "My God, of course! Slide to unlock it." 451 00:26:36,096 --> 00:26:38,765 And really, I only threw that in at the last minute 452 00:26:38,848 --> 00:26:42,269 because I thought it would make Paul Edwards, our director, laugh. 453 00:26:42,352 --> 00:26:45,230 And making this big burly Texan 454 00:26:45,355 --> 00:26:48,525 go weak at the knees laughing is, it's a drug. 455 00:26:48,608 --> 00:26:50,694 - It's a drug to me. - GOFFMAN: Oh, yeah. 456 00:26:51,695 --> 00:26:54,864 But as soon as you did it, we all watched it on the monitors 457 00:26:55,031 --> 00:26:57,033 and thought this is... That is hysterical. 458 00:26:57,158 --> 00:26:58,159 (LAUGHS) 459 00:26:58,243 --> 00:27:01,162 And we knew everyone would get it instantly. 460 00:27:01,871 --> 00:27:04,291 But yeah, Paul Edward is so much fun. 461 00:27:05,208 --> 00:27:09,170 He came on, he did actually our second episode of season one. 462 00:27:09,546 --> 00:27:13,925 And we had so much fun with him, with the Boston Tea Party. 463 00:27:15,635 --> 00:27:18,847 That, you know, we brought him back several times. 464 00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:24,561 He then did the "Necromancer" episode with John Cho and then, of course... 465 00:27:24,644 --> 00:27:25,645 MISON: "The Kindred." 466 00:27:25,729 --> 00:27:28,565 GOFFMAN: And Abraham and then "The Kindred" this season. 467 00:27:29,274 --> 00:27:32,694 And so when we had the opportunity for him to come on as a producing director, 468 00:27:32,777 --> 00:27:33,987 it was just fantastic. 469 00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:36,239 And he got to do the finale. 470 00:27:38,783 --> 00:27:40,660 MISON: And he gets the show brilliantly. 471 00:27:40,744 --> 00:27:42,912 He is a great mixture of... 472 00:27:42,996 --> 00:27:45,206 He's a bit of an action star. 473 00:27:46,207 --> 00:27:50,587 But also he's such a huge Monty Python fan. 474 00:27:50,670 --> 00:27:52,672 GOFFMAN: Yeah. MISON: So, he understands 475 00:27:53,381 --> 00:27:56,301 British humor rather brilliantly. 476 00:27:56,468 --> 00:28:00,013 And this selfie was actually 477 00:28:00,096 --> 00:28:03,600 the very, very first thing we shot in this season. 478 00:28:03,808 --> 00:28:05,643 - GOFFMAN: Yeah. - And had just been kept over 479 00:28:05,727 --> 00:28:07,854 until we could put it in there. 480 00:28:08,188 --> 00:28:12,776 GOFFMAN: Yeah, interestingly, you know, that was shot as a scene 481 00:28:12,859 --> 00:28:17,405 we were gonna potentially use in the coffin, when Crane was stuck in the coffin, 482 00:28:17,489 --> 00:28:21,659 and there just wasn't time for it in the episode or the story need. 483 00:28:21,743 --> 00:28:24,871 And so as I was conceiving this scene it seemed like, 484 00:28:24,954 --> 00:28:29,459 "Well, here's the proof we need and we've already got it." (LAUGHS) 485 00:28:30,168 --> 00:28:35,048 And it actually even has this reference to Crane as a man from the past 486 00:28:35,131 --> 00:28:36,758 and in the modern era. 487 00:28:36,841 --> 00:28:38,927 So it is just one of those 488 00:28:39,010 --> 00:28:41,971 happy accidents that work perfectly with the sequence. 489 00:28:42,055 --> 00:28:43,181 I've got information for you. 490 00:28:43,264 --> 00:28:45,183 Of the same sort you had for Captain Crane? 491 00:28:45,558 --> 00:28:46,684 There have been a lot of developments 492 00:28:46,768 --> 00:28:49,229 - in close quarter combat. - Are you threatening me? 493 00:28:49,312 --> 00:28:52,232 GOFFMAN: We wanted to show Abbie knows a few things from the future 494 00:28:52,315 --> 00:28:53,858 that are very handy in the past 495 00:28:53,983 --> 00:28:58,571 and she, you know, she can kick some ass. 496 00:28:58,863 --> 00:29:00,156 (BOTH LAUGHING) 497 00:29:00,490 --> 00:29:02,117 (GROANING) 498 00:29:09,165 --> 00:29:10,750 Now, that's true American strength. 499 00:29:12,961 --> 00:29:13,962 MISON: Yeah. 500 00:29:14,254 --> 00:29:15,380 Ha! 501 00:29:16,923 --> 00:29:18,091 I'm here to save you. 502 00:29:19,217 --> 00:29:21,511 Though it appears Sutton is in greater need. 503 00:29:21,594 --> 00:29:23,972 Better late than never. What made you come back? 504 00:29:24,055 --> 00:29:25,682 I viewed a moving... 505 00:29:25,765 --> 00:29:31,187 MISON: It's interesting that the moment Ichabod realizes, 506 00:29:31,354 --> 00:29:35,650 "My God, she is from the future, she is my partner, she is my friend," 507 00:29:36,526 --> 00:29:38,903 the first thing he does with her is a joke. 508 00:29:38,987 --> 00:29:42,198 Much like the modern Ichabod. 509 00:29:42,282 --> 00:29:43,950 It says an awful lot about him. 510 00:29:45,785 --> 00:29:47,537 GOFFMAN: Yeah, I think you're right. 511 00:29:48,121 --> 00:29:49,164 It's nice that it's... 512 00:29:49,247 --> 00:29:52,792 Then it's a recognition too of their bond and their friendship. 513 00:29:52,876 --> 00:29:55,462 That he suddenly eases up 514 00:29:55,545 --> 00:29:58,840 because he has been, you know, it's interesting 515 00:29:58,923 --> 00:30:02,594 and I thought you made such a great choice with the way 516 00:30:02,677 --> 00:30:07,765 Crane has been withholding, but then just giving a little bit to her 517 00:30:07,849 --> 00:30:09,142 'cause he knows there's something there. 518 00:30:09,225 --> 00:30:11,394 But he's still trying to maintain 519 00:30:11,478 --> 00:30:16,483 the character and also the culture of 1781. 520 00:30:16,566 --> 00:30:17,901 MISON: Mmm. 521 00:30:20,028 --> 00:30:22,780 Can we just have a moment to appreciate the hat? 522 00:30:22,906 --> 00:30:25,366 Of all the things you told me, and there are so many... 523 00:30:25,742 --> 00:30:27,619 GOFFMAN: Which one? (LAUGHS) 524 00:30:32,999 --> 00:30:34,542 Yeah, I do like this moment too, 525 00:30:34,626 --> 00:30:37,629 where Abbie, again, understands 526 00:30:37,712 --> 00:30:40,340 how strange all of this must be for him. 527 00:30:40,632 --> 00:30:44,719 And that of all the people, that Katrina 528 00:30:45,762 --> 00:30:48,681 was a good person at one time and really did love him, 529 00:30:48,765 --> 00:30:50,934 but that's all changed. 530 00:30:51,267 --> 00:30:53,436 MISON: And of course, the Crane that she knows, 531 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,606 has had a long time of seeing 532 00:30:58,608 --> 00:31:00,985 his family turn to the dark side. 533 00:31:01,069 --> 00:31:03,029 Whereas, for this Crane, 534 00:31:03,112 --> 00:31:05,323 in the space of one day, 535 00:31:05,406 --> 00:31:09,494 he discovers that his wife is a witch and, right now, she's trying to kill him. 536 00:31:09,577 --> 00:31:15,208 GOFFMAN: The ripping of the Band Aid in this, for two seasons versus one episode. 537 00:31:15,291 --> 00:31:19,337 I didn't have time to think about whether it was a one-way ticket. 538 00:31:21,172 --> 00:31:23,007 GOFFMAN: And then back to Fredericks Manor. 539 00:31:23,091 --> 00:31:24,759 CRANE: Fredericks Manor. 540 00:31:26,511 --> 00:31:28,763 GOFFMAN: That shot was actually a CG shot. 541 00:31:29,138 --> 00:31:33,142 We were not able for production reasons to shoot around the front of the house, 542 00:31:33,476 --> 00:31:34,852 during this episode. 543 00:31:34,936 --> 00:31:38,815 And so the next angle we see is the way we were able to do it. 544 00:31:39,315 --> 00:31:40,817 MISON: Really? GOFFMAN: Yeah. 545 00:31:42,193 --> 00:31:43,236 And so... 546 00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:45,405 And the house, also, was boarded in the windows 547 00:31:45,488 --> 00:31:50,577 and they had to CG all of the windows and then color time it to have it match. 548 00:31:50,660 --> 00:31:52,745 She ambushed me. 549 00:31:52,829 --> 00:31:54,455 Then escaped. 550 00:31:55,540 --> 00:31:56,916 Do not worry. 551 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,711 When she scratched you, she left a little bit of her blood behind. 552 00:31:59,794 --> 00:32:01,421 Is this necessary? 553 00:32:01,504 --> 00:32:04,007 It is, in order for me to find her. 554 00:32:04,090 --> 00:32:09,262 GOFFMAN: This scene has one of my favorite Katrina lines of the season. 555 00:32:10,346 --> 00:32:13,391 And she's really embraced her inner witch here. 556 00:32:14,017 --> 00:32:15,893 Why, it's simple, really. 557 00:32:15,977 --> 00:32:16,936 I'm a witch. 558 00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:18,062 (GROANS) 559 00:32:21,149 --> 00:32:24,652 MISON: Man, she's great. I like bad Katrina. 560 00:32:27,905 --> 00:32:31,576 - Ah! Captain Crane. - Mrs. Dixon. Forgive the intrusion. 561 00:32:31,659 --> 00:32:37,040 GOFFMAN: And Grace Dixon, really a great character introduced in season one. 562 00:32:37,874 --> 00:32:39,751 We got so lucky with the casting. 563 00:32:40,835 --> 00:32:41,961 She's really terrific. 564 00:32:42,378 --> 00:32:48,051 MISON: And Onira's excellent, she's got just the right warmth to bring to Grace. 565 00:32:48,551 --> 00:32:50,803 That as soon as you come in, you know it's... 566 00:32:50,887 --> 00:32:54,307 Instantly you get, this is a happy, safe house. 567 00:32:55,975 --> 00:33:00,980 GOFFMAN: Yeah, warmth and a gravitas and a rapport with Abbie. 568 00:33:01,105 --> 00:33:02,857 - Even as they are... - MISON: Instantly. 569 00:33:03,066 --> 00:33:04,525 (GOFFMAN LAUGHS) 570 00:33:05,818 --> 00:33:09,072 GOFFMAN: Crane's still, "Do I have to explain this again?" 571 00:33:10,448 --> 00:33:14,369 MISON: Yeah, it's one thing to believe it, but it's another to say it out loud. 572 00:33:14,577 --> 00:33:17,372 Grace Abigail Mills. 573 00:33:18,539 --> 00:33:20,416 We're related. 574 00:33:22,043 --> 00:33:23,878 MISON: Is this new music as well? 575 00:33:23,961 --> 00:33:28,633 We had some music that was completely unique to this episode. 576 00:33:28,925 --> 00:33:32,512 GOFFMAN: We did, you know... MISON: Earlier when Crane was with 577 00:33:32,595 --> 00:33:35,056 the phone, that was newer music 578 00:33:35,139 --> 00:33:36,933 and here, I think, there's newer music. 579 00:33:37,058 --> 00:33:41,729 GOFFMAN: Yeah, Robert Lydecker and Brian Tyler, our composers. 580 00:33:41,813 --> 00:33:45,233 Just, for in episode 17 and 18, really... 581 00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:49,696 They had a lot of freedom and we just told them to go for it 582 00:33:49,779 --> 00:33:53,491 and came up with the Sympathy For The Devil 583 00:33:53,658 --> 00:33:58,037 and violin which I thought was just a great way to introduce 584 00:33:58,162 --> 00:34:00,707 the concept of Abbie back in 1781. 585 00:34:00,832 --> 00:34:02,625 And then here, 586 00:34:03,626 --> 00:34:08,464 the scoring of the intercut sequence in the jail cell 587 00:34:08,548 --> 00:34:12,260 and Crane with the phone was all original new music for the show. 588 00:34:12,343 --> 00:34:15,638 And just really, I thought it amped up the stakes 589 00:34:15,722 --> 00:34:19,517 and elevated the scene so much. 590 00:34:19,726 --> 00:34:20,852 MISON: Yeah, quite. 591 00:34:20,935 --> 00:34:22,228 But it will require a great deal of power. 592 00:34:22,311 --> 00:34:25,231 I will have to draw on the energies that normally shield this house. 593 00:34:25,481 --> 00:34:28,317 - So, we'll be vulnerable to attack? - Yeah. 594 00:34:28,401 --> 00:34:30,069 Then we should commence. 595 00:34:31,863 --> 00:34:33,322 We found your journal. 596 00:34:34,407 --> 00:34:37,577 MISON: And now we see Crane as completely 597 00:34:37,660 --> 00:34:39,245 the gooseberry in this scene. 598 00:34:39,370 --> 00:34:41,956 All he's left doing is holding a bunch of flowers 599 00:34:42,039 --> 00:34:44,792 that he can pass to Abbie. 600 00:34:46,252 --> 00:34:48,588 - There you go. Well done, Ichabod. - (GOFFMAN LAUGHS) 601 00:34:48,671 --> 00:34:50,298 Thank God you're here. 602 00:34:51,674 --> 00:34:54,761 Whilst they continue their bond, 603 00:34:54,844 --> 00:34:58,931 their ancestry and a completely new Grace 604 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:03,019 that Ichabod, who's known her for years has never seen. 605 00:35:05,605 --> 00:35:08,566 GOFFMAN: And this is the woman who helped deliver his son. 606 00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:10,026 MISON: His son, quite. 607 00:35:10,777 --> 00:35:16,157 And the woman whose journal has helped Abbie particularly 608 00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:18,284 and on countless occasions. 609 00:35:18,993 --> 00:35:22,371 It was such a nice idea to have Abbie and Grace meet. 610 00:35:23,539 --> 00:35:27,627 And here again we see Ichabod if there's a danger to Abbie, 611 00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:31,380 already, then he's gonna go and stand in between it. 612 00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:34,759 Even though he knows that he's probably gonna die. 613 00:35:34,842 --> 00:35:36,886 ...and no matter how I get there, 614 00:35:36,969 --> 00:35:39,222 I look forward to experiencing your America. 615 00:35:40,056 --> 00:35:43,309 It will be a pleasure to make your acquaintance all over again, Ms. Mills. 616 00:35:43,476 --> 00:35:45,645 GOFFMAN: He's bought into the idea of it. 617 00:35:46,020 --> 00:35:50,024 He's got faith that Abbie's gonna set things right, that this will all work out. 618 00:35:50,107 --> 00:35:53,569 And he'll get to meet her again in 200 and some years. 619 00:35:54,070 --> 00:35:55,071 Lieutenant. 620 00:35:55,988 --> 00:35:57,240 Well, Lieutenant... 621 00:35:58,574 --> 00:36:00,326 Let us change the course of history... 622 00:36:00,409 --> 00:36:03,287 GOFFMAN: And, and none of this will have actually happened. 623 00:36:04,956 --> 00:36:08,125 I really enjoyed this hug, Tom. (LAUGHS) 624 00:36:10,878 --> 00:36:13,965 Is this level of intimacy commonplace in 2015? 625 00:36:14,215 --> 00:36:15,466 (GOFFMAN CHUCKLES) 626 00:36:15,550 --> 00:36:18,261 MISON: She surprised me with that little squeeze during the line. 627 00:36:18,344 --> 00:36:19,345 GOFFMAN: Oh, good. 628 00:36:19,470 --> 00:36:20,638 (BOTH LAUGH) 629 00:36:23,516 --> 00:36:24,517 GOFFMAN: Off to battle. 630 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,519 GRACE: Before we part, please! 631 00:36:27,311 --> 00:36:30,231 Look at the end of my journal. 632 00:36:30,857 --> 00:36:33,192 Yeah, I've seen these pages. 633 00:36:33,276 --> 00:36:35,027 - They're empty. - Abigail, these are the most... 634 00:36:35,111 --> 00:36:37,613 GOFFMAN: Again a little, a little tease that there's more to come. 635 00:36:37,697 --> 00:36:40,074 These are the pages you will write. 636 00:36:40,157 --> 00:36:42,660 The most crucial battles still lie ahead. 637 00:36:43,327 --> 00:36:44,787 MISON: She'll probably just fill those pages 638 00:36:44,871 --> 00:36:47,874 with Crane's birthday and pictures of Crane. 639 00:36:47,957 --> 00:36:49,375 GOFFMAN: Doodles, yeah. MISON: Yeah. 640 00:36:51,294 --> 00:36:53,337 GOFFMAN: Yeah, she is a powerful witch. 641 00:36:54,213 --> 00:36:55,673 The wards are down. 642 00:36:56,215 --> 00:36:57,466 Go! 643 00:37:01,971 --> 00:37:07,643 GOFFMAN: Again, with this battle sequence, Paul really studied the pilot 644 00:37:07,727 --> 00:37:10,730 and we wanted each of these moves 645 00:37:10,813 --> 00:37:13,149 to mirror the way the horseman acts, 646 00:37:13,232 --> 00:37:17,403 and the first part of this battle to mirror the pilot battle. 647 00:37:18,362 --> 00:37:21,198 With the exception of, now Crane, 648 00:37:21,282 --> 00:37:24,035 since they're in a different place, he's got home field advantage, 649 00:37:24,827 --> 00:37:31,083 he's able to extend the battle more so that they don't behead each other, 650 00:37:31,167 --> 00:37:32,752 but they want to keep it going. 651 00:37:42,011 --> 00:37:44,138 He's also taking his sweet time. 652 00:37:44,472 --> 00:37:45,806 (BOTH CHUCKLE) 653 00:37:48,434 --> 00:37:50,353 MISON: And then, God, I love this sequence. 654 00:37:52,313 --> 00:37:53,272 Just in time. 655 00:37:53,356 --> 00:37:55,775 GOFFMAN: This was really fun to create. 656 00:37:55,858 --> 00:37:58,527 And there, again, our VFX department, just brilliant. 657 00:38:02,031 --> 00:38:04,450 When I first scripted it, I didn't know if we could pull it off. 658 00:38:04,533 --> 00:38:06,953 Because this effect, right here, 659 00:38:07,036 --> 00:38:10,206 where time is frozen and then you see different angles, 660 00:38:10,957 --> 00:38:16,754 is something that typically takes probably about 10 days to shoot 661 00:38:16,837 --> 00:38:18,589 and 100 cameras. 662 00:38:19,382 --> 00:38:22,134 MISON: And Paul Edwards did it in what, three hours? 663 00:38:22,218 --> 00:38:23,344 GOFFMAN: Yup. 664 00:38:24,345 --> 00:38:29,558 Yeah, and then we put each of these moments in to show time being reversed 665 00:38:29,684 --> 00:38:33,354 and then go to full screen, to see us come back 666 00:38:33,688 --> 00:38:37,108 and replay all these moments from season one and two. 667 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,278 MISON: Show the pilot so you get to see how much the show has aged all of us. 668 00:38:41,570 --> 00:38:42,738 In just two years. 669 00:38:44,991 --> 00:38:48,995 And now here it is, and of course, Crane has no idea of what's just happened. 670 00:38:49,328 --> 00:38:52,206 GOFFMAN: No, to him, a second and a half has passed. 671 00:38:52,373 --> 00:38:54,750 - MISON: Yeah. - And Abbie's just lived three days. 672 00:38:57,753 --> 00:39:00,131 MISON: Henry has just died, 673 00:39:00,214 --> 00:39:03,300 Katrina has just thrown him up against the bell. 674 00:39:04,969 --> 00:39:06,929 GOFFMAN: He sees the knife and yet... 675 00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:09,515 MISON: And we had lots of discussions about this, 676 00:39:09,598 --> 00:39:12,018 about how Katrina should die, 677 00:39:12,101 --> 00:39:17,356 and I think it was the right choice to make it... 678 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,442 This is probably an accident. 679 00:39:22,403 --> 00:39:24,655 - We'll never quite know. - GOFFMAN: No. 680 00:39:25,448 --> 00:39:27,908 MISON: But, my God, it hurts Ichabod. 681 00:39:28,743 --> 00:39:31,787 GOFFMAN: And the way the two of you are in each other's arms 682 00:39:31,871 --> 00:39:35,124 for that last moment, was really powerful. 683 00:39:45,676 --> 00:39:46,969 Jeremy. 684 00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:56,937 MISON: And then we really do see after a full episode of Crane 685 00:39:57,021 --> 00:40:00,941 with authority, with family, with friends, with superiors, 686 00:40:02,485 --> 00:40:03,986 with a purpose. 687 00:40:05,696 --> 00:40:07,239 From this moment, 688 00:40:08,157 --> 00:40:12,495 she is the last thing he has, apart from those boots, 689 00:40:12,828 --> 00:40:16,373 the last thing he has and it's gone. 690 00:40:16,707 --> 00:40:19,376 GOFFMAN: Yeah, literally dissipates in his arms. 691 00:40:34,433 --> 00:40:38,312 And again, he didn't witness any of the action in this episode. 692 00:40:38,395 --> 00:40:40,189 - This Crane didn't. - MISON: No. 693 00:40:42,191 --> 00:40:46,529 Thank God, as if it wasn't bad enough, now his wife's gonna turn to ash 694 00:40:46,862 --> 00:40:48,489 in front of him. 695 00:40:48,864 --> 00:40:52,118 GOFFMAN: Only a minute after his son... 696 00:40:52,201 --> 00:40:54,453 - MISON: Yeah. - ...had the same experience. 697 00:40:57,206 --> 00:40:58,916 GOFFMAN: You know, we had versions of this 698 00:40:58,999 --> 00:41:01,961 where I had a whole scene written at one point 699 00:41:02,294 --> 00:41:06,465 and I was reminded of this scene in The Fugitive 700 00:41:06,549 --> 00:41:07,675 where there was a... 701 00:41:07,758 --> 00:41:12,012 Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford had a five-page sequence 702 00:41:12,096 --> 00:41:17,393 when he's standing in the tunnel about to jump off into Niagara Falls. 703 00:41:17,476 --> 00:41:20,729 And what ended up on screen was, 704 00:41:21,063 --> 00:41:24,692 Harrison Ford saying, "I didn't do it," and Tommy Lee Jones says, "I don't care." 705 00:41:25,401 --> 00:41:26,777 And that was all the dialog you needed. 706 00:41:26,861 --> 00:41:30,990 And, I think about that a lot in doing this scene, 707 00:41:31,073 --> 00:41:33,868 again, knowing I have two brilliant actors. 708 00:41:35,035 --> 00:41:39,373 There doesn't need to be a lot of dialog, you guys can just sit in the moment. 709 00:41:39,456 --> 00:41:44,170 MISON: On the page, reading it on the page, I struggled with the idea 710 00:41:44,253 --> 00:41:47,506 of Ichabod and Abbie having a two-page scene. 711 00:41:47,590 --> 00:41:50,926 I think we're at a point after two seasons 712 00:41:51,010 --> 00:41:52,845 where they don't need that. 713 00:41:52,928 --> 00:41:57,725 She gets how hard it is, he instantly tries to... 714 00:41:57,808 --> 00:41:59,727 We've still got to carry on. 715 00:41:59,935 --> 00:42:02,813 We still got to carry on. That's his default. 716 00:42:02,897 --> 00:42:04,732 And always has been. 717 00:42:04,815 --> 00:42:07,693 And she tries to support him. 718 00:42:07,902 --> 00:42:10,487 GOFFMAN: Yeah. MISON: He didn't have a choice. 719 00:42:10,571 --> 00:42:14,575 And he said, "Let's not, let's not wrap it up in cotton wool." 720 00:42:14,825 --> 00:42:19,330 "Every single one of us had a choice, including Katrina, including Henry." 721 00:42:20,289 --> 00:42:22,625 And, now, here's his new family. 722 00:42:24,460 --> 00:42:29,048 GOFFMAN: Yeah. It was very important to get to bring back Jenny and Irving 723 00:42:29,131 --> 00:42:30,591 into this moment. 724 00:42:31,217 --> 00:42:34,470 So that the team is back together after, you know, 725 00:42:35,012 --> 00:42:36,388 a harrowing couple of episodes. 726 00:42:36,472 --> 00:42:39,516 And Irving really, his soul being owned 727 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,477 by Henry through the entire season, 728 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,480 but now it's finally released and he's back, 729 00:42:44,563 --> 00:42:46,857 and I think the really intriguing part there 730 00:42:46,941 --> 00:42:48,567 is he's already died once. 731 00:42:48,859 --> 00:42:52,404 He's really died so, what mysteries lie there? 732 00:42:52,488 --> 00:42:53,447 MISON: Yeah, quite. 733 00:42:53,530 --> 00:42:57,743 I think we cut a few lines of Ichabod's as well in that moment. 734 00:42:57,826 --> 00:43:00,913 Just to have him still, just exhausted. 735 00:43:02,122 --> 00:43:05,876 And here's the last look at where it all fell apart for him. 736 00:43:06,627 --> 00:43:09,588 GOFFMAN: Yeah, there was a bird, do you remember the bird? 737 00:43:09,672 --> 00:43:11,757 MISON: There was a bird... GOFFMAN: There is no bird now. 738 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,217 We didn't need it. 739 00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:17,096 And I do think that, "Ready captain," "Ready lieutenant," 740 00:43:17,179 --> 00:43:18,472 is the perfect way to end. 741 00:43:20,349 --> 00:43:24,186 It's mutual respect and friendship 742 00:43:24,270 --> 00:43:27,940 and who knows where they're gonna go from here. 743 00:43:28,274 --> 00:43:30,776 GOFFMAN: And going back to, again, Abbie's experience, 744 00:43:30,859 --> 00:43:33,237 she now has gotten to know the captain. 745 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,073 - The captain Crane of 1781. - Absolutely. 746 00:43:36,156 --> 00:43:40,911 GOFFMAN: And that's her nod to him and respect for who he was then. 747 00:43:40,995 --> 00:43:45,040 She can say that with a kind of knowledge 748 00:43:45,165 --> 00:43:47,710 that she didn't have up until that moment. 749 00:43:47,793 --> 00:43:49,712 MISON: No, quite, quite. 750 00:43:51,964 --> 00:43:54,341 GOFFMAN: Well, Tom, thank you. This was really fun. 751 00:43:54,425 --> 00:43:56,552 MISON: Oh, it was a pleasure. It was a pleasure.