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00:00:04,087 --> 00:00:11,094
♪ ♪
2
00:00:15,390 --> 00:00:17,893
The detective
told me that there
3
00:00:17,893 --> 00:00:22,773
were over 100 videos
of our daughter Avaya
4
00:00:22,773 --> 00:00:25,734
in my husband Jason's
iCloud account.
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00:00:25,734 --> 00:00:30,489
He's recording up her shirt.
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00:00:30,489 --> 00:00:34,409
Jason was somebody she...
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00:00:34,409 --> 00:00:35,911
called Dad.
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00:00:35,911 --> 00:00:38,705
♪ ♪
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My stomach just dropped.
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I literally felt so betrayed.
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She didn't feel safe anymore.
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She went to stay
with her biological dad,
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00:00:59,893 --> 00:01:03,397
who was battling
substance use.
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But she couldn't come home.
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00:01:06,316 --> 00:01:08,568
I was afraid I was
going to lose her.
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Jason's sentencing hearing
is one that will always
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00:01:16,326 --> 00:01:19,079
really kind of stick with me.
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♪ ♪
19
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I was terrified that he
would manipulate Ashley
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into letting him come home.
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00:01:55,365 --> 00:02:02,372
♪ ♪
22
00:02:21,558 --> 00:02:23,977
Jason was originally charged
with 10 counts
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of sexual exploitation of
a minor, which is a felony,
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and two counts of voyeurism
for secretly filming Avaya.
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00:02:33,111 --> 00:02:35,822
♪ ♪
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00:02:35,822 --> 00:02:38,992
When Jason did
what he did...
27
00:02:41,453 --> 00:02:44,664
The neighborhood kids
no longer wanted to come over.
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♪ ♪
29
00:02:50,962 --> 00:02:55,425
Or when I would see
somebody in a public place
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that I knew...
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they saw me and turned around
and walked out of the store.
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All of those things, like,
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00:03:02,849 --> 00:03:06,395
brought back some really
big insecurities within me.
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00:03:08,271 --> 00:03:11,066
We all try to present,
like, a really great image,
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00:03:11,066 --> 00:03:13,360
but we all have
underlying things
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00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:14,945
that we might not be
dealing with.
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00:03:14,945 --> 00:03:17,906
And when they come out, there's
a lot of shame that comes up.
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It's really hard when
something like this happens
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and you're being
judged by other people.
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Ashley, this caused her
to question everything
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about herself.
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She withdrew.
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00:03:34,297 --> 00:03:36,675
She didn't want to go
to the grocery store.
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She didn't want to function.
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00:03:38,927 --> 00:03:42,305
The second week
he was in jail,
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I had to go see him.
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So I made my way down
with the lawyer,
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00:03:48,103 --> 00:03:51,523
and we began conversations.
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Before Jason was arrested,
he was prescribed Prozac
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to help with his depression,
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00:03:57,946 --> 00:04:01,324
and he would take Adderall
for his ADD.
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So he'd created this story
in his head.
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00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:09,666
"I'm off all that medication.
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00:04:09,666 --> 00:04:11,251
"I feel so much better now.
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"My head's so clear.
I feel great.
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00:04:13,962 --> 00:04:15,589
You saved my life."
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So I'm like, okay, so he's
taking this medication
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that made him have
a nervous breakdown
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00:04:23,263 --> 00:04:25,515
or a psychotic break
of some sort.
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♪ ♪
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00:04:28,143 --> 00:04:31,313
And because of the medication,
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when the choice came to whether
he was going to escalate
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whatever type of pornography
he was looking at,
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he was like, hey, why not?
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♪ ♪
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00:04:43,742 --> 00:04:45,952
I mean, it's normal
when something really bad
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happens to try to believe
any story or cover for them
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00:04:50,332 --> 00:04:53,335
or minimize it, because
the truth around this story
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00:04:53,335 --> 00:04:55,086
is just devastating.
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00:04:55,086 --> 00:04:58,298
♪ ♪
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00:04:58,298 --> 00:05:00,342
And so I started
letting him call.
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00:05:00,342 --> 00:05:02,427
My youngest child
didn't understand.
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00:05:02,427 --> 00:05:05,430
Jason is
her biological father.
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00:05:05,430 --> 00:05:07,057
She was so little.
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00:05:07,057 --> 00:05:09,726
She wasn't even
eight years old.
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And she just didn't understand
why he was in time-out.
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♪ ♪
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That's how I explained it.
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I said, Dad made
a really bad choice.
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And when you make a really bad
choice, there's a consequence,
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and his consequence is
time-out for adults.
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However...
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Avaya and my son
wouldn't speak to him.
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♪ ♪
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00:05:35,085 --> 00:05:38,838
Olivia really wanted to hear
from him really bad.
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It was really sad watching her
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00:05:43,260 --> 00:05:45,262
trying to understand
everything at first.
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It was really, really sad...
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because he
doesn't deserve to have her.
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♪ ♪
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00:05:54,437 --> 00:05:58,233
When Avaya quit
coming home...
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it dawned on me
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00:06:00,068 --> 00:06:02,487
that she didn't feel safe
in her own room.
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00:06:02,487 --> 00:06:06,491
And for whatever reason,
her biological dad, Matt,
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00:06:06,491 --> 00:06:10,328
and his uncertainty
made her feel safer
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00:06:10,328 --> 00:06:13,456
than being
around me in my home.
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♪ ♪
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00:06:15,917 --> 00:06:18,420
I had put a mattress
next to his bed on the floor.
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For, like, three months
straight, I slept there,
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00:06:20,547 --> 00:06:23,049
right next to my dad
every single night.
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00:06:23,049 --> 00:06:25,427
♪ ♪
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00:06:25,427 --> 00:06:29,097
I felt bad for moving out,
in a way.
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I kind of felt like
I just, like,
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00:06:31,266 --> 00:06:34,060
left my mom and my brother
and Olivia.
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00:06:34,060 --> 00:06:38,690
But my mom had so many
other things to worry about.
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00:06:38,690 --> 00:06:40,275
It was really
frustrating for me,
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00:06:40,275 --> 00:06:42,694
and I just felt safe
next to my dad.
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We'd spent every day
of her life with her,
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00:06:47,157 --> 00:06:49,784
and she couldn't
stand to be around us.
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I cried every single day.
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♪ ♪
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I missed her.
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00:06:59,836 --> 00:07:02,297
But I had to just
be okay with it.
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♪ ♪
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00:07:04,966 --> 00:07:09,596
It didn't seem like it was
a very stable environment,
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but it's what she
needed at the time.
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00:07:12,766 --> 00:07:15,393
Once Jason was
put in county jail,
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he tried to communicate
with Ashley and the kids,
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00:07:17,312 --> 00:07:19,230
and he did that
through letters.
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00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:25,737
So these letters were sent
within weeks
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00:07:25,737 --> 00:07:29,199
of him first
being arrested and charged.
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What did he say to you?
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"If you give me
a chance, Ash,
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"I will fix my mistakes.
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00:07:36,831 --> 00:07:40,335
"I know that person
was not the real me.
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00:07:40,335 --> 00:07:42,754
"I'll do anything to spend
the rest of my life with you
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00:07:42,754 --> 00:07:44,923
"and showing you
the man that I am
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00:07:44,923 --> 00:07:48,802
"and the man that I can be
through my actions.
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00:07:48,802 --> 00:07:50,595
I hope you all can forgive me."
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00:07:50,595 --> 00:07:53,723
What he did is
such a violation
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and so deep and intense.
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And I don't...
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00:07:57,727 --> 00:08:01,731
This letter
doesn't represent that.
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00:08:01,731 --> 00:08:02,774
No.
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00:08:02,774 --> 00:08:04,401
Do you know what I mean?
136
00:08:04,401 --> 00:08:07,320
Yeah, it's like he...
137
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,906
I don't know--
like, got a DUI or--
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00:08:09,906 --> 00:08:11,616
I mean, which is not--
139
00:08:11,616 --> 00:08:13,410
I mean, I'm not saying that
that's not terrible.
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00:08:13,410 --> 00:08:15,954
-Mm-hmm.
- But it's--
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it's almost like he
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00:08:18,206 --> 00:08:20,792
just got put in time-out
for a minute.
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Avaya's letter.
144
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,175
- Do you mind if I read it?
- Yeah.
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00:08:29,175 --> 00:08:31,136
Oof.
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00:08:31,136 --> 00:08:32,971
"Avaya...
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00:08:32,971 --> 00:08:36,307
"hey, V. I miss you
and my family so much.
148
00:08:36,307 --> 00:08:39,394
"I'm so sorry for all
the stupid things I have done
149
00:08:39,394 --> 00:08:41,104
"to end up here in jail.
150
00:08:41,104 --> 00:08:45,567
"I'm feeling a lot better now,
and my mind is a lot clearer.
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00:08:45,567 --> 00:08:50,363
"You are a beautiful, strong,
independent, smart, talented,
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00:08:50,363 --> 00:08:51,990
"and creative young woman.
153
00:08:51,990 --> 00:08:55,869
"Make sure you never let anyone
treat you like an object.
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00:08:55,869 --> 00:08:58,830
"I miss you so much, V.
155
00:08:58,830 --> 00:09:00,790
Love, Dad."
156
00:09:00,790 --> 00:09:03,418
I have a hard time with
the fact that in this letter,
157
00:09:03,418 --> 00:09:07,213
he's writing
that she's beautiful...
158
00:09:07,213 --> 00:09:10,216
and has, like, the capacity
159
00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:13,011
to talk about anyone
treating her like an object,
160
00:09:13,011 --> 00:09:17,515
because that's
exactly what he did.
161
00:09:17,515 --> 00:09:19,017
In all of the letters,
162
00:09:19,017 --> 00:09:22,020
there's a tone of...
163
00:09:22,020 --> 00:09:24,272
"I'll be better.
164
00:09:24,272 --> 00:09:27,942
"When I get out,
I'll be, like, the husband
165
00:09:27,942 --> 00:09:30,987
"that you want me to be or the
father that I should have been.
166
00:09:30,987 --> 00:09:33,031
I'm going to make
this up to you."
167
00:09:35,283 --> 00:09:38,536
♪ ♪
168
00:09:38,536 --> 00:09:41,039
I didn't want to read them.
I told my mom.
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00:09:41,039 --> 00:09:43,291
I was like, throw them away.
Burn them.
170
00:09:43,291 --> 00:09:44,667
Like, I don't give a shit.
171
00:09:44,667 --> 00:09:46,127
That's sick.
172
00:09:46,127 --> 00:09:48,254
Why are you writing me
after you know
173
00:09:48,254 --> 00:09:51,049
you literally
just destroyed me?
174
00:09:52,550 --> 00:09:55,303
Give me my space.
175
00:09:55,303 --> 00:09:58,181
But he couldn't because those
letters and those apologies
176
00:09:58,181 --> 00:10:00,642
were to make him feel better.
177
00:10:00,642 --> 00:10:02,060
He's really manipulative.
178
00:10:02,060 --> 00:10:03,853
He's one of those
kinds of people
179
00:10:03,853 --> 00:10:05,688
that will literally
say anything
180
00:10:05,688 --> 00:10:09,025
to make you believe him.
181
00:10:09,025 --> 00:10:11,361
I wanted to believe it.
182
00:10:11,361 --> 00:10:13,321
I wanted to believe
he's been sick,
183
00:10:13,321 --> 00:10:16,699
and he's going to get better,
because I wanted my life back,
184
00:10:16,699 --> 00:10:18,910
give the kids their life back.
185
00:10:18,910 --> 00:10:25,583
♪ ♪
186
00:10:25,583 --> 00:10:29,087
After Jason gets arrested,
Jason spent 30 days in jail.
187
00:10:31,047 --> 00:10:33,675
So he spends 30 days in jail
188
00:10:33,675 --> 00:10:37,345
but then is released
on pretrial
189
00:10:37,345 --> 00:10:40,849
so he can prepare
with his lawyer.
190
00:10:42,308 --> 00:10:44,185
When Jason was released,
191
00:10:44,185 --> 00:10:46,062
he went and lived with
his grandfather.
192
00:10:46,062 --> 00:10:48,064
And there were stipulations,
obviously,
193
00:10:48,064 --> 00:10:51,192
for him being out of jail--
no Internet and no smartphone.
194
00:10:51,192 --> 00:10:53,653
♪ ♪
195
00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:56,698
When he got out,
it terrified me--
196
00:10:56,698 --> 00:10:59,576
terrified me for my own family
197
00:10:59,576 --> 00:11:03,371
but for Ashley
and for the kids.
198
00:11:03,371 --> 00:11:05,415
He's out there.
199
00:11:05,415 --> 00:11:08,376
Is he going to manipulate
the situation
200
00:11:08,376 --> 00:11:10,545
and work his way back in?
201
00:11:10,545 --> 00:11:14,132
♪ ♪
202
00:11:19,804 --> 00:11:21,723
♪ ♪
203
00:11:21,723 --> 00:11:26,019
After we found out Jason
was getting released,
204
00:11:26,019 --> 00:11:28,146
it was just kind of
a stressful time.
205
00:11:28,146 --> 00:11:30,523
I know how
the whole law works.
206
00:11:30,523 --> 00:11:31,649
It's not like you can just
207
00:11:31,649 --> 00:11:33,401
immediately put someone
in jail forever.
208
00:11:33,401 --> 00:11:35,778
They have to go through
a trial and all those things.
209
00:11:35,778 --> 00:11:38,531
But what's going
to happen with Ashley?
210
00:11:38,531 --> 00:11:41,868
I mean, she was upset.
211
00:11:41,868 --> 00:11:44,621
But she was also, like,
trying to help him.
212
00:11:44,621 --> 00:11:48,208
♪ ♪
213
00:11:48,208 --> 00:11:50,793
I spend
the next month of my life
214
00:11:50,793 --> 00:11:52,712
between Jason's
grandpa's house
215
00:11:52,712 --> 00:11:56,090
and at my house
with my children.
216
00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:58,843
I went right back
into wifey mode.
217
00:11:58,843 --> 00:12:02,013
I took him all the clothes
that he needed,
218
00:12:02,013 --> 00:12:03,973
and I'd cook him dinner,
219
00:12:03,973 --> 00:12:06,559
and we were studying
the Bible together.
220
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,853
It felt happy and good.
221
00:12:08,853 --> 00:12:12,440
And I wanted to...
222
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,943
go back to the way life was.
223
00:12:14,943 --> 00:12:17,403
I was like,
what the hell are you doing?
224
00:12:17,403 --> 00:12:20,657
She said, please just
let me figure this out
225
00:12:20,657 --> 00:12:24,953
and work through it, and don't
say anything to me right now.
226
00:12:24,953 --> 00:12:28,164
And I just said, okay.
227
00:12:29,958 --> 00:12:32,835
Vaya was stressed out
about that whole thing.
228
00:12:32,835 --> 00:12:34,295
She didn't want to see him.
229
00:12:34,295 --> 00:12:36,047
She didn't want to
have to run into him.
230
00:12:36,047 --> 00:12:37,799
I just was worried about her
231
00:12:37,799 --> 00:12:41,052
and how, you know,
she was going to feel.
232
00:12:41,052 --> 00:12:43,554
I didn't know
how to feel about that.
233
00:12:43,554 --> 00:12:45,807
I understood, like,
where she was coming from.
234
00:12:45,807 --> 00:12:47,934
Like, I wanted that life
back, too, like,
235
00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:49,602
but she's still
going to leave him.
236
00:12:49,602 --> 00:12:51,145
Like, that was, like,
my thought in my head.
237
00:12:51,145 --> 00:12:52,730
Like, she's still
going to leave him.
238
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:54,691
Like, he's not going to
come back in our life.
239
00:12:54,691 --> 00:12:56,859
He's not going to be my dad.
240
00:12:56,859 --> 00:12:59,654
There was always this
underlying question I had.
241
00:12:59,654 --> 00:13:03,992
And I asked him, why did
you have so many photos?
242
00:13:03,992 --> 00:13:08,121
And his response was, well,
they were just a collection.
243
00:13:08,121 --> 00:13:10,164
I never looked at them.
244
00:13:10,164 --> 00:13:13,459
My brain was so fucked up that
I just collected these photos.
245
00:13:13,459 --> 00:13:16,838
♪ ♪
246
00:13:16,838 --> 00:13:19,215
It is really hard
to confront something
247
00:13:19,215 --> 00:13:21,050
when we know our whole reality
248
00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,052
is going to fall apart,
consciously,
249
00:13:23,052 --> 00:13:25,054
but also subconsciously.
250
00:13:26,931 --> 00:13:29,058
So I asked him, you know,
251
00:13:29,058 --> 00:13:33,229
why did you record Avaya?
252
00:13:33,229 --> 00:13:37,316
And he said, well, I was
trying to catch her smoking
253
00:13:37,316 --> 00:13:40,528
or catch her being
inappropriate with boys,
254
00:13:40,528 --> 00:13:43,364
and I wanted to have
evidence to show you.
255
00:13:43,364 --> 00:13:45,908
I was like, oh, okay,
that makes sense.
256
00:13:45,908 --> 00:13:47,785
You were just, like,
trying to catch her
257
00:13:47,785 --> 00:13:50,913
being a shitty teenager.
258
00:13:50,913 --> 00:13:53,458
I mean, it's still weird
as shit, but I was like, okay.
259
00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:55,501
He was recording her
all the time
260
00:13:55,501 --> 00:13:57,962
and just happened to get her
261
00:13:57,962 --> 00:14:00,715
in these compromised positions
a couple of times.
262
00:14:00,715 --> 00:14:02,717
Like, that's what
made sense to me,
263
00:14:02,717 --> 00:14:05,720
because there was no way
that he was...
264
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,432
looking at our daughter
in a sexual manner
265
00:14:09,432 --> 00:14:13,144
because that doesn't
even compute.
266
00:14:13,144 --> 00:14:16,355
She was trying
to process it all
267
00:14:16,355 --> 00:14:18,941
and not really realizing,
268
00:14:18,941 --> 00:14:21,360
I don't think, the magnitude
of what he's done
269
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,864
or the impact it was
putting on Avaya, you know,
270
00:14:24,864 --> 00:14:27,325
that she was talking to him,
271
00:14:27,325 --> 00:14:29,952
'cause we were like,
what is happening?
272
00:14:29,952 --> 00:14:31,370
What is she doing?
273
00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:35,792
He told me that his lawyer
had handed him
274
00:14:35,792 --> 00:14:37,752
the evidence investigation,
275
00:14:37,752 --> 00:14:40,338
but I realized
that he'd been distracting me,
276
00:14:40,338 --> 00:14:42,131
like, when I'd ask for it.
277
00:14:42,131 --> 00:14:45,051
He would say,
you don't need to look at it.
278
00:14:45,051 --> 00:14:46,219
Like, you know everything.
279
00:14:46,219 --> 00:14:47,970
You see all
the police documents.
280
00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:50,473
You don't need to look
at the discovery paperwork.
281
00:14:50,473 --> 00:14:53,768
And then I remember,
one day finally looked at him,
282
00:14:53,768 --> 00:14:55,228
and I was like, fucking stop.
283
00:14:55,228 --> 00:14:59,190
Like, I realized he did not
want me to see the report.
284
00:14:59,190 --> 00:15:02,068
♪ ♪
285
00:15:02,068 --> 00:15:06,989
And when I read the report...
286
00:15:06,989 --> 00:15:09,951
you know,
like, I'd see these words--
287
00:15:09,951 --> 00:15:13,663
"undress," "breasts."
288
00:15:13,663 --> 00:15:16,624
And I was like,
what the fuck is this?
289
00:15:16,624 --> 00:15:19,877
♪ ♪
290
00:15:19,877 --> 00:15:22,797
Every single video of Avaya
291
00:15:22,797 --> 00:15:26,384
was her in those
compromising positions.
292
00:15:26,384 --> 00:15:31,597
♪ ♪
293
00:15:31,597 --> 00:15:35,184
Everything that, like, he
said he was doing at that time
294
00:15:35,184 --> 00:15:36,394
was a lie.
295
00:15:36,394 --> 00:15:43,442
♪ ♪
296
00:15:46,154 --> 00:15:49,157
The fact that he would say he
was going out in the backyard
297
00:15:49,157 --> 00:15:51,242
using his stargazing app...
298
00:15:51,242 --> 00:15:56,289
♪ ♪
299
00:15:56,289 --> 00:16:01,210
When really he was walking over
to Avaya's window...
300
00:16:01,210 --> 00:16:03,838
and he was in the dark
301
00:16:03,838 --> 00:16:06,215
and taking videos of her.
302
00:16:06,215 --> 00:16:12,513
♪ ♪
303
00:16:16,434 --> 00:16:18,352
It's an anger feeling.
304
00:16:18,352 --> 00:16:20,521
It's a pitiful,
sorry feeling for him
305
00:16:20,521 --> 00:16:23,941
that he's sick like that,
you know?
306
00:16:25,359 --> 00:16:29,280
You knowingly
and willingly
307
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,074
chose to take photos and videos
308
00:16:32,074 --> 00:16:34,493
of your own child.
309
00:16:34,493 --> 00:16:37,705
He knew what he was doing
310
00:16:37,705 --> 00:16:40,082
every time he did it.
311
00:16:40,082 --> 00:16:43,794
♪ ♪
312
00:16:43,794 --> 00:16:46,005
And when I asked him
why he lied to me,
313
00:16:46,005 --> 00:16:48,174
he told me,
I didn't lie to you.
314
00:16:48,174 --> 00:16:50,635
You came up with this story
315
00:16:50,635 --> 00:16:53,179
that I was recording Avaya
doing everything,
316
00:16:53,179 --> 00:16:54,805
and I just didn't tell you.
317
00:16:54,805 --> 00:16:57,767
I just let you believe
what you thought.
318
00:16:57,767 --> 00:17:00,978
That was when my rose-colored
glasses came off,
319
00:17:00,978 --> 00:17:03,981
and I was like,
what the fuck am I doing?
320
00:17:03,981 --> 00:17:06,609
And, like, instantly,
I thought of my children.
321
00:17:06,609 --> 00:17:08,236
And I thought of Avaya.
322
00:17:08,236 --> 00:17:11,322
Like, how did I do that to her?
323
00:17:11,322 --> 00:17:13,908
♪ ♪
324
00:17:13,908 --> 00:17:16,953
Thinking about it now
and knowing what I know now,
325
00:17:16,953 --> 00:17:18,955
that was just
a really desperate attempt
326
00:17:18,955 --> 00:17:23,251
to not lose my life.
327
00:17:23,251 --> 00:17:25,711
♪ ♪
328
00:17:25,711 --> 00:17:27,922
So many people,
and often people
329
00:17:27,922 --> 00:17:30,591
who struggle with some
childhood trauma, like Ashley,
330
00:17:30,591 --> 00:17:32,718
live in relationships
where they have a sense
331
00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:34,178
that something's wrong,
332
00:17:34,178 --> 00:17:36,514
but they don't address it
until they're pushed to a limit
333
00:17:36,514 --> 00:17:38,516
in which they need
to address it.
334
00:17:38,516 --> 00:17:40,726
So the fact that she didn't
address it for a while
335
00:17:40,726 --> 00:17:43,187
makes so much sense,
given how she's adapted
336
00:17:43,187 --> 00:17:44,772
to survive in her life.
337
00:17:44,772 --> 00:17:48,693
It was time to quit
pressing pause on our lives.
338
00:17:50,403 --> 00:17:53,364
It was time to be there
for the children.
339
00:17:53,364 --> 00:17:59,203
♪ ♪
340
00:17:59,203 --> 00:18:02,540
It was time for us to have
whatever influence we could
341
00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:04,667
on the court system.
342
00:18:04,667 --> 00:18:07,128
And it was time for me
to fight for Avaya,
343
00:18:07,128 --> 00:18:08,337
and it was time for me to fight
344
00:18:08,337 --> 00:18:10,923
for all those little girls
in those photos.
345
00:18:10,923 --> 00:18:15,761
♪ ♪
346
00:18:22,518 --> 00:18:27,023
♪ ♪
347
00:18:27,023 --> 00:18:29,066
There was a year
process in between when
348
00:18:29,066 --> 00:18:32,945
Jason was released from
his first 30 days in jail
349
00:18:32,945 --> 00:18:35,781
to his hearing.
350
00:18:35,781 --> 00:18:38,159
In that year, we went
through three prosecutors.
351
00:18:38,159 --> 00:18:40,661
♪ ♪
352
00:18:40,661 --> 00:18:43,706
There's a lot of wheels
and deals going on.
353
00:18:43,706 --> 00:18:48,628
And so we heard Jason was
going to plead guilty
354
00:18:48,628 --> 00:18:50,171
so we don't have
to go to trial.
355
00:18:50,171 --> 00:18:52,381
Sam Sutton, who's
the prosecuting attorney,
356
00:18:52,381 --> 00:18:55,301
was fairly confident
this would eventually lead
357
00:18:55,301 --> 00:18:56,802
to a hands-on offense.
358
00:19:23,496 --> 00:19:25,915
Not every person
that consumes CSAM
359
00:19:25,915 --> 00:19:28,042
leads to a hands-on offense,
360
00:19:28,042 --> 00:19:31,879
but the prosecutors
felt very certain
361
00:19:31,879 --> 00:19:34,382
that it was trending
in that direction
362
00:19:34,382 --> 00:19:37,593
leading up to sentencing day.
363
00:19:37,593 --> 00:19:41,055
♪ ♪
364
00:19:43,099 --> 00:19:46,769
Today we are
at the courthouse building.
365
00:19:46,769 --> 00:19:49,647
This is where Jason
was sentenced.
366
00:19:49,647 --> 00:19:51,690
On that day of sentencing,
367
00:19:51,690 --> 00:19:54,110
it was the first time
I'd ever met Sam Sutton,
368
00:19:54,110 --> 00:19:56,737
the state prosecutor.
369
00:19:56,737 --> 00:19:59,073
And he came in, guns a-blazing.
370
00:19:59,073 --> 00:20:00,282
He was like,
we're going to do this.
371
00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:01,867
We're going to do this.
372
00:20:01,867 --> 00:20:05,329
It looks like there was a level
of escalation on Jason's part,
373
00:20:05,329 --> 00:20:10,209
going from photos
to filming Avaya,
374
00:20:10,209 --> 00:20:13,921
and so we're going to go
for this prison sentence,
375
00:20:13,921 --> 00:20:16,382
because he's a danger.
376
00:20:16,382 --> 00:20:19,844
But before our time
in front of the judge,
377
00:20:19,844 --> 00:20:23,472
Sam Sutton went and spoke
with Jason's attorney,
378
00:20:23,472 --> 00:20:25,891
and that's when he found out
that there was a deal made.
379
00:20:25,891 --> 00:20:28,686
♪ ♪
380
00:20:28,686 --> 00:20:30,688
He was originally charged
381
00:20:30,688 --> 00:20:33,941
with ten counts
382
00:20:33,941 --> 00:20:36,736
of sexual exploitation
of a minor
383
00:20:36,736 --> 00:20:40,239
and two counts of voyeurism.
384
00:20:40,239 --> 00:20:43,701
But one of the prosecutors
had struck up a deal
385
00:20:43,701 --> 00:20:47,288
to have Jason plead guilty
386
00:20:47,288 --> 00:20:51,917
to two counts of sexual
exploitation of a minor
387
00:20:51,917 --> 00:20:55,754
and one count of voyeurism.
388
00:20:55,754 --> 00:20:58,090
And that was a surprise.
389
00:21:11,562 --> 00:21:14,815
Although I could
tell them my opinion on it
390
00:21:14,815 --> 00:21:18,235
and what I think
should happen,
391
00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:20,738
ultimately, that choice
was going to go in whatever
392
00:21:20,738 --> 00:21:22,907
was in the best
interest of the state.
393
00:21:22,907 --> 00:21:25,284
And I felt like we were
being silenced,
394
00:21:25,284 --> 00:21:27,369
like we weren't being
listened to.
395
00:21:55,606 --> 00:21:58,150
I had told Sam Sutton,
our prosecutor,
396
00:21:58,150 --> 00:21:59,818
that we wanted to speak.
397
00:22:01,987 --> 00:22:04,281
I wanted to speak my piece
398
00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:06,492
because I knew
that we had that right.
399
00:22:06,492 --> 00:22:12,623
♪ ♪
400
00:22:29,723 --> 00:22:33,185
♪ All alone ♪
401
00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:35,813
I wasn't sure if Avaya was
even going to come to court.
402
00:22:35,813 --> 00:22:37,856
I didn't know
if it was even appropriate
403
00:22:37,856 --> 00:22:40,276
for her to come to court
to be in the same room
404
00:22:40,276 --> 00:22:42,444
with her perpetrator,
405
00:22:42,444 --> 00:22:45,447
aka her father who raised her.
406
00:22:45,447 --> 00:22:47,866
♪ ♪
407
00:22:47,866 --> 00:22:50,244
Get off! Oh, oh!
408
00:22:50,244 --> 00:22:52,121
But I let her decide.
409
00:22:52,121 --> 00:22:54,665
That morning, she looked at me
and said, I'm fucking going.
410
00:22:54,665 --> 00:22:56,750
I was like,
am I allowed to say, like,
411
00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:58,419
my piece, like,
what he did to me?
412
00:22:58,419 --> 00:23:01,130
My mom was like, yeah,
of course, you totally can,
413
00:23:01,130 --> 00:23:04,008
100%.
414
00:23:04,008 --> 00:23:05,801
I was so scared.
415
00:23:05,801 --> 00:23:07,428
But I was ready.
416
00:23:07,428 --> 00:23:09,680
I wasn't going to
let anyone stop her.
417
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,266
I looked Jason
directly in the eyes.
418
00:23:12,266 --> 00:23:15,060
I was so scared.
I was so scared.
419
00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:16,854
But I remember, like,
walking up to that booth,
420
00:23:16,854 --> 00:23:19,231
knowing that I literally
had to do it.
421
00:23:19,231 --> 00:23:22,109
I had to speak up there.
422
00:23:22,109 --> 00:23:25,321
♪ All alone ♪
423
00:23:31,410 --> 00:23:35,706
♪ ♪
424
00:23:35,706 --> 00:23:37,958
When I was walking
to the stand,
425
00:23:37,958 --> 00:23:40,210
I remember seeing him
whimpering and crying, like--
426
00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:43,881
almost, like, shaking in
his own body, freaking out.
427
00:23:43,881 --> 00:23:46,050
♪ ♪
428
00:24:13,494 --> 00:24:14,954
I don't want him
to see my shape.
429
00:24:14,954 --> 00:24:16,538
I don't want him
to see my body.
430
00:24:16,538 --> 00:24:18,832
I don't want him
to even be able
431
00:24:18,832 --> 00:24:21,919
to see any inch of my skin.
432
00:24:23,295 --> 00:24:27,132
She did not
want Jason to have
433
00:24:27,132 --> 00:24:30,719
anything to even think about.
434
00:24:30,719 --> 00:24:33,055
♪ ♪
435
00:24:54,868 --> 00:24:57,913
When I was talking, I was
looking directly at the judge.
436
00:24:57,913 --> 00:25:01,083
I wanted her to know
that I was talking to her.
437
00:25:01,083 --> 00:25:02,501
I wanted her to believe me.
438
00:25:02,501 --> 00:25:04,169
Like, you guys may think
that he's this,
439
00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:05,629
like, cool football dad.
440
00:25:05,629 --> 00:25:08,215
This is his only first charge,
whatever.
441
00:25:08,215 --> 00:25:10,259
No, he's a piece of shit, dude.
442
00:25:10,259 --> 00:25:15,264
♪ ♪
443
00:25:29,862 --> 00:25:31,864
I wanted him to hear
the hurt in my voice.
444
00:25:31,864 --> 00:25:33,991
I wanted him to feel that pain.
445
00:25:33,991 --> 00:25:35,993
That was me, like, saying,
like, you know what?
446
00:25:35,993 --> 00:25:37,453
Bye, dude.
447
00:25:37,453 --> 00:25:38,829
Like, that was the last
you'll ever hear my voice.
448
00:25:38,829 --> 00:25:41,331
That is the last
you'll ever hear from me.
449
00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:46,003
She got up there
and faced Judge Mettler
450
00:25:46,003 --> 00:25:49,298
like Avaya was a giant
451
00:25:49,298 --> 00:25:52,801
and the rest of us were peons
looking up at her.
452
00:26:37,971 --> 00:26:39,181
I knew he was just faking.
453
00:26:39,181 --> 00:26:41,683
Like, that was just
a big, fake cry.
454
00:26:41,683 --> 00:26:44,394
It was just a big lie,
455
00:26:44,394 --> 00:26:45,938
is what that cry was.
456
00:27:07,042 --> 00:27:10,087
He said what he felt...
457
00:27:10,087 --> 00:27:13,173
would get him
a lighter sentence.
458
00:27:13,173 --> 00:27:15,217
It was utter bullshit.
459
00:27:52,588 --> 00:27:55,924
She was doing
what was allowed
460
00:27:55,924 --> 00:27:58,886
based on the plea deals
that were made.
461
00:27:58,886 --> 00:28:02,556
And he was only given
a year at a county jail,
462
00:28:02,556 --> 00:28:05,434
not even at a prison.
463
00:28:05,434 --> 00:28:06,727
I was pissed.
464
00:28:06,727 --> 00:28:08,520
I was shocked.
465
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,647
♪ ♪
466
00:28:10,647 --> 00:28:12,357
First-time offenders,
whatever.
467
00:28:12,357 --> 00:28:15,611
Because he had a clean record,
doesn't take away the fact
468
00:28:15,611 --> 00:28:19,698
that he took pictures
of my granddaughter.
469
00:28:19,698 --> 00:28:22,618
And how many other thousands of
pictures he had on his phone--
470
00:28:22,618 --> 00:28:26,079
hopefully, because of all this
and we keep doing this,
471
00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:29,541
they're going to find
a way to, you know,
472
00:28:29,541 --> 00:28:32,336
make someone pay the price.
473
00:28:32,336 --> 00:28:34,171
My job is to investigate
474
00:28:34,171 --> 00:28:37,007
crimes against children
that happen over the Internet.
475
00:28:37,007 --> 00:28:40,510
And so, seeing that kind of
sentence for an offender,
476
00:28:40,510 --> 00:28:44,181
it's a blow to me
as an investigator.
477
00:28:44,181 --> 00:28:46,016
It's also a blow to me
as a father.
478
00:28:46,016 --> 00:28:49,019
That's the consequence
that someone gets
479
00:28:49,019 --> 00:28:50,771
for viewing this type
of material?
480
00:28:50,771 --> 00:28:52,648
That's all you're going
to give them?
481
00:28:52,648 --> 00:28:54,733
Yeah, that's terrible.
482
00:28:56,193 --> 00:28:59,613
Yeah, it was like
a slap on the wrist.
483
00:28:59,613 --> 00:29:01,698
I wanted him to do prison time.
484
00:29:01,698 --> 00:29:04,785
Prison is where he belongs.
485
00:29:04,785 --> 00:29:06,787
♪ ♪
486
00:29:06,787 --> 00:29:08,080
I was so angry.
487
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,457
This was really
the way it was going to be.
488
00:29:10,457 --> 00:29:11,792
And I just had to deal with it.
489
00:29:11,792 --> 00:29:14,503
And there was nothing
I could do about it.
490
00:29:14,503 --> 00:29:17,839
The lack of education
amongst our decision makers
491
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:22,427
in terms of CSAM is...
492
00:29:22,427 --> 00:29:25,973
is what's hurting us.
493
00:29:25,973 --> 00:29:27,391
There's that disconnect
494
00:29:27,391 --> 00:29:30,644
with understanding
it's not pornography.
495
00:29:30,644 --> 00:29:33,480
It's not just pictures.
496
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,858
Those kids behind there,
they're real.
497
00:29:36,858 --> 00:29:38,902
I mean, he's not the only one.
498
00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:41,071
There's a lot of things
like this happening
499
00:29:41,071 --> 00:29:43,448
all over the place.
500
00:29:43,448 --> 00:29:47,995
For the year 2023,
over 45 million CSAM cases
501
00:29:47,995 --> 00:29:52,416
have been reported
across the country.
502
00:29:52,416 --> 00:29:54,459
I don't think
we can really pin down
503
00:29:54,459 --> 00:29:57,838
why people choose to consume
504
00:29:57,838 --> 00:29:59,756
child sexual abuse material.
505
00:29:59,756 --> 00:30:02,342
The common perception
of someone involved in CSAM
506
00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:05,053
is probably a single male
507
00:30:05,053 --> 00:30:06,847
living in
Mom and Dad's basement,
508
00:30:06,847 --> 00:30:08,849
but it can be a teacher,
509
00:30:08,849 --> 00:30:11,143
a CEO, a police officer.
510
00:30:11,143 --> 00:30:13,687
There's no one...
511
00:30:13,687 --> 00:30:17,107
type of offender.
512
00:30:17,107 --> 00:30:18,900
It does seem like the law
513
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:20,736
is on the side
of the perpetrator,
514
00:30:20,736 --> 00:30:23,697
because not only do they
have really short sentences,
515
00:30:23,697 --> 00:30:25,115
but then they get out,
516
00:30:25,115 --> 00:30:27,492
and they're in a system
that basically protects
517
00:30:27,492 --> 00:30:30,245
their rights at the expense
of other people's rights.
518
00:30:30,245 --> 00:30:33,790
I was scared...
519
00:30:33,790 --> 00:30:36,126
because
I realized that it's only
520
00:30:36,126 --> 00:30:39,504
a matter of time
until Jason's released...
521
00:30:41,298 --> 00:30:44,259
And right back into
522
00:30:44,259 --> 00:30:46,720
my life.
523
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:53,101
♪ ♪
524
00:30:58,857 --> 00:31:02,069
♪ ♪
525
00:31:02,069 --> 00:31:05,405
Two or three months
after Jason was sentenced,
526
00:31:05,405 --> 00:31:09,451
Avaya started coming home more,
coming to dinners, stopping by.
527
00:31:09,451 --> 00:31:12,162
I remember my mom called me,
and she's like, your brother,
528
00:31:12,162 --> 00:31:13,914
he wants his sister,
he wants his sister,
529
00:31:13,914 --> 00:31:15,290
and that's all
he keeps asking for.
530
00:31:15,290 --> 00:31:16,833
You need to come.
I was like, okay.
531
00:31:16,833 --> 00:31:18,752
So I came upstairs,
and I just looked at him,
532
00:31:18,752 --> 00:31:20,003
and I was like, dude.
533
00:31:20,003 --> 00:31:21,588
And he just started screaming.
534
00:31:21,588 --> 00:31:23,548
And I was like, come here,
and I just gave him a big hug.
535
00:31:23,548 --> 00:31:27,719
And we all just sat there and
just sobbed for, like, hours.
536
00:31:27,719 --> 00:31:30,097
She stayed one night,
stayed two,
537
00:31:30,097 --> 00:31:32,933
and then slowly moved back in.
538
00:31:32,933 --> 00:31:35,268
And I remember being
in Utah at that time.
539
00:31:35,268 --> 00:31:38,355
And I just remember seeing
Ashley, being like, she's home,
540
00:31:38,355 --> 00:31:40,899
and that meaning
so much to her.
541
00:31:42,317 --> 00:31:45,445
But he only ended up
serving ten months
542
00:31:45,445 --> 00:31:49,074
of that year
for good behavior.
543
00:31:49,074 --> 00:31:52,619
So in the months to follow,
544
00:31:52,619 --> 00:31:54,329
Jason's released.
545
00:31:54,329 --> 00:31:56,331
After everything
had happened,
546
00:31:56,331 --> 00:32:00,001
Jason was still in
the same neighborhood as us.
547
00:32:00,001 --> 00:32:02,921
I'd seen him drive, like,
past me, like, three times.
548
00:32:02,921 --> 00:32:05,549
Every time I'd see him drive
past me, I would have to,
549
00:32:05,549 --> 00:32:08,051
like, pull over
because I would be,
550
00:32:08,051 --> 00:32:09,886
like, hyperventilating,
like, shaking.
551
00:32:09,886 --> 00:32:12,139
Like, I would literally,
like, stop and be, like,
552
00:32:12,139 --> 00:32:13,598
freaking out.
553
00:32:13,598 --> 00:32:17,978
Avaya should not have
to even consider
554
00:32:17,978 --> 00:32:22,691
that she may at some point
run into him.
555
00:32:22,691 --> 00:32:28,113
She is being victimized
over and over and over again.
556
00:32:28,113 --> 00:32:31,241
It's really scary
that Jason only served
557
00:32:31,241 --> 00:32:33,034
a short period of time
and he's out.
558
00:32:33,034 --> 00:32:35,871
And he has so much more freedom
than we would like,
559
00:32:35,871 --> 00:32:39,749
because these types of crimes
take a long time
560
00:32:39,749 --> 00:32:41,543
to heal and change.
561
00:32:41,543 --> 00:32:44,629
And he needs a lot of help
before, you know,
562
00:32:44,629 --> 00:32:47,799
he should be set free.
563
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:50,760
Ashley, you know,
was going to church a lot.
564
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,638
She joined this group,
kind of like a recovery group.
565
00:32:53,638 --> 00:32:58,059
When he got out, he started
going to her church.
566
00:32:58,059 --> 00:33:00,645
And then he started
going to that same group--
567
00:33:00,645 --> 00:33:03,773
not at the same time,
but he was still a part of it.
568
00:33:03,773 --> 00:33:05,901
She continued going,
569
00:33:05,901 --> 00:33:09,070
and there was a session
that she sat in on.
570
00:33:09,070 --> 00:33:12,324
And they read a letter
that he sent from jail
571
00:33:12,324 --> 00:33:14,201
to all his brothers
and sisters,
572
00:33:14,201 --> 00:33:16,453
and they read it out loud
in front of her
573
00:33:16,453 --> 00:33:18,997
and were, like,
celebrating him.
574
00:33:18,997 --> 00:33:20,498
And it really makes me wonder
575
00:33:20,498 --> 00:33:22,959
if they knew
exactly what he did.
576
00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:25,795
He, like, took that
sanctuary away from her.
577
00:33:25,795 --> 00:33:29,716
He never went with them to
church before he got arrested.
578
00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:32,219
So the fact that he did it
after and, you know,
579
00:33:32,219 --> 00:33:35,180
started saying, like,
he's found God and the Gospel
580
00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:39,935
and he's a better man, it just
seemed like bullshit to me.
581
00:33:41,144 --> 00:33:44,064
He can put on a good show.
582
00:33:44,064 --> 00:33:48,818
If he thinks that God's going
to save him, good for him.
583
00:33:48,818 --> 00:33:51,279
But...
584
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:54,574
He's got a long ways to go
if he's going to do that.
585
00:33:54,574 --> 00:33:57,160
Here's the thing.
586
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,746
People like Jason--
587
00:33:59,746 --> 00:34:02,123
we can't just lock up
and throw away the key
588
00:34:02,123 --> 00:34:04,751
or do whatever the hell
we think we need to do
589
00:34:04,751 --> 00:34:07,837
with pedophiles,
590
00:34:07,837 --> 00:34:13,093
because until the perpetrators
really want that change
591
00:34:13,093 --> 00:34:15,720
or want to figure out
what it is
592
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:18,932
that makes them want to look
at child sexual abuse material
593
00:34:18,932 --> 00:34:22,852
or abuse a child, they're
not going to get better.
594
00:34:24,729 --> 00:34:26,773
Ashley is in a situation
595
00:34:26,773 --> 00:34:30,735
where she faces the next phase
of this, which is divorce.
596
00:34:30,735 --> 00:34:35,073
And what was
so eye-opening to me was that
597
00:34:35,073 --> 00:34:38,159
criminal court and family court
are two separate things.
598
00:34:40,412 --> 00:34:41,705
In this instance,
599
00:34:41,705 --> 00:34:43,164
Jason did
all these illegal things.
600
00:34:43,164 --> 00:34:44,791
He caused the destruction
of the family.
601
00:34:44,791 --> 00:34:46,626
He caused the whole life
to be disrupted.
602
00:34:46,626 --> 00:34:49,462
And yet he still under the law
603
00:34:49,462 --> 00:34:53,174
is entitled to a certain
percentage of their assets.
604
00:34:54,759 --> 00:34:56,011
Half of everything--
605
00:34:56,011 --> 00:34:58,179
my pension,
half my retirement,
606
00:34:58,179 --> 00:35:00,974
half the value of Avaya's car
that I bought her.
607
00:35:00,974 --> 00:35:04,978
And he believes
that he's entitled to it.
608
00:35:04,978 --> 00:35:07,814
There's a risk that she's
going to lose the house
609
00:35:07,814 --> 00:35:11,818
and have to sell it to pay him
out his portion of the equity.
610
00:35:11,818 --> 00:35:14,446
In addition to that,
he was granted
611
00:35:14,446 --> 00:35:16,614
supervised visits with
our youngest daughter.
612
00:35:18,742 --> 00:35:21,911
It's clear that
he's a risk to his daughter.
613
00:35:21,911 --> 00:35:25,790
But even though a parent has
done something to one child,
614
00:35:25,790 --> 00:35:28,001
the court systems
don't automatically assume
615
00:35:28,001 --> 00:35:31,963
that that necessarily creates
a risk to another child.
616
00:35:31,963 --> 00:35:34,424
The law requires
high standards
617
00:35:34,424 --> 00:35:36,217
to stop contact between
a parent and a child.
618
00:35:36,217 --> 00:35:39,012
And that goes back to kind of
our constitutional law
619
00:35:39,012 --> 00:35:41,681
that tends to treat children
as though they're property.
620
00:35:41,681 --> 00:35:43,058
And in this instance,
621
00:35:43,058 --> 00:35:45,518
where there weren't
actual sexual acts going on--
622
00:35:45,518 --> 00:35:47,395
and I hate to say
"just voyeurism,"
623
00:35:47,395 --> 00:35:49,147
because it's still terrible--
624
00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:51,650
but that doesn't necessarily
for a judge mean
625
00:35:51,650 --> 00:35:55,236
that he's going to be a risk
to his children in the future.
626
00:35:57,447 --> 00:35:59,240
Ultimately,
Jason's going to want
627
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,202
to have unsupervised visits
with his biological daughter.
628
00:36:02,202 --> 00:36:04,079
Not only does Jason want that,
629
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:06,790
but the state of Utah
also wants that for Jason.
630
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:09,042
♪ ♪
631
00:36:09,042 --> 00:36:11,044
The reunification laws
in Utah
632
00:36:11,044 --> 00:36:15,507
basically tell courts that
they have to create a plan
633
00:36:15,507 --> 00:36:19,928
to allow a parent to transition
off of supervised visits
634
00:36:19,928 --> 00:36:21,846
to unsupervised visits.
635
00:36:21,846 --> 00:36:25,475
So, after
three months of treatment,
636
00:36:25,475 --> 00:36:29,437
he's "cured" enough
637
00:36:29,437 --> 00:36:33,024
that he's safe to be
around these children again.
638
00:36:33,024 --> 00:36:37,070
And is it going to be
another three months
639
00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:38,905
of sex offender treatment
640
00:36:38,905 --> 00:36:41,491
and suddenly he gets
unsupervised visits
641
00:36:41,491 --> 00:36:43,118
with his daughter?
642
00:36:43,118 --> 00:36:45,203
♪ ♪
643
00:36:45,203 --> 00:36:47,122
I mean, when you
think about the fact
644
00:36:47,122 --> 00:36:49,290
that Olivia is at
the age of the girls
645
00:36:49,290 --> 00:36:52,335
that he saved photos of...
646
00:36:52,335 --> 00:36:54,546
and he gets to see her,
647
00:36:54,546 --> 00:36:57,257
and there's a chance
that he'll be granted
648
00:36:57,257 --> 00:36:59,551
sleepover privileges--
649
00:36:59,551 --> 00:37:01,594
how is that acceptable?
650
00:37:01,594 --> 00:37:04,180
I know he's the father,
but the crime that he committed
651
00:37:04,180 --> 00:37:06,641
was against children, so he
shouldn't be around children.
652
00:37:06,641 --> 00:37:09,644
It seems pretty
straightforward to me.
653
00:37:09,644 --> 00:37:12,188
From my perspective, like,
this case should be easy.
654
00:37:12,188 --> 00:37:14,524
Ashley should get custody.
She should get the house.
655
00:37:14,524 --> 00:37:16,943
There should be
no visitation, period.
656
00:37:16,943 --> 00:37:19,195
And the fact it becomes all
about protecting his rights
657
00:37:19,195 --> 00:37:21,030
and what he's entitled to,
658
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:22,949
it's hard to watch
Ashley going through it,
659
00:37:22,949 --> 00:37:24,868
because you want it
to just end for her.
660
00:37:24,868 --> 00:37:27,454
I've realized
through this whole thing
661
00:37:27,454 --> 00:37:32,250
that I have to put protections
in place to protect my child.
662
00:37:32,250 --> 00:37:36,045
And by doing that, I have to
have really tough conversations
663
00:37:36,045 --> 00:37:38,506
with a ten-year-old.
664
00:37:38,506 --> 00:37:40,925
I've told her...
665
00:37:40,925 --> 00:37:45,346
if something feels weird,
then it's probably weird.
666
00:37:45,346 --> 00:37:49,434
She comes to me and asks me
if what she's wearing
667
00:37:49,434 --> 00:37:52,854
is appropriate
to be around him.
668
00:37:52,854 --> 00:37:55,482
♪ ♪
669
00:37:55,482 --> 00:38:00,487
Ashley called me up just
bawling about that one day.
670
00:38:00,487 --> 00:38:04,407
She's only ten years old.
671
00:38:04,407 --> 00:38:08,995
If your kid came up and said,
am I dressed appropriately...
672
00:38:08,995 --> 00:38:12,040
To see my father?
673
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,834
Holy shit.
674
00:38:14,834 --> 00:38:18,755
Because although she doesn't
really understand...
675
00:38:18,755 --> 00:38:20,590
like, what's happened,
676
00:38:20,590 --> 00:38:24,093
she knows that there is...
677
00:38:24,093 --> 00:38:27,972
a guard that she has
to have up with him...
678
00:38:27,972 --> 00:38:32,352
to keep herself safe,
because I can't.
679
00:38:32,352 --> 00:38:35,313
There's nothing in place
for me to do that.
680
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:38,775
And that's what scares me about
our criminal justice system.
681
00:38:38,775 --> 00:38:42,570
There has to be
a different system.
682
00:38:42,570 --> 00:38:44,656
There has to be a better way.
683
00:38:44,656 --> 00:38:46,824
♪ ♪
684
00:38:52,038 --> 00:38:54,457
♪ ♪
685
00:38:54,457 --> 00:38:58,461
After the podcast,
we got so many emails
686
00:38:58,461 --> 00:39:02,006
just from people relating
to Ashley's story,
687
00:39:02,006 --> 00:39:06,594
victims
of sexual violence, abuse.
688
00:39:06,594 --> 00:39:10,265
It's been really incredible
to watch.
689
00:39:10,265 --> 00:39:12,809
So many people have
told me the same things
690
00:39:12,809 --> 00:39:14,435
are happening to them.
691
00:39:14,435 --> 00:39:18,022
Their husbands have been
arrested for the same thing.
692
00:39:18,022 --> 00:39:20,650
And they're going
through the same thing
693
00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:22,110
that I'm going through.
694
00:39:22,110 --> 00:39:24,237
How are you?
695
00:39:38,418 --> 00:39:41,880
I knew
that he had re-offended...
696
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:47,135
but I had no idea about him
getting supervised visits.
697
00:39:55,768 --> 00:39:57,478
Wow.
698
00:39:57,478 --> 00:40:00,732
Yeah, I was telling
Andrea today that
699
00:40:00,732 --> 00:40:04,152
Jason was approved
for a smartphone.
700
00:40:04,152 --> 00:40:05,695
And he's still
701
00:40:05,695 --> 00:40:10,158
in his court-appointed,
like, sex offender treatment.
702
00:40:10,158 --> 00:40:12,493
You and I both are...
703
00:40:12,493 --> 00:40:16,456
like, essentially fighting
that same fight right now.
704
00:40:32,347 --> 00:40:37,226
♪ ♪
705
00:40:37,226 --> 00:40:38,686
This view is incredible.
706
00:40:38,686 --> 00:40:39,812
Yeah.
707
00:40:39,812 --> 00:40:41,898
Thank you
for bringing me here.
708
00:40:41,898 --> 00:40:43,733
We live in a very
beautiful place.
709
00:40:43,733 --> 00:40:47,820
Sometimes the beauty masks
what really is going on.
710
00:40:47,820 --> 00:40:49,739
So...
711
00:40:49,739 --> 00:40:52,325
don't let it fool you.
712
00:40:52,325 --> 00:40:54,160
It's so important
that we start talking
713
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,536
about these things.
714
00:40:55,536 --> 00:40:58,539
Many people listening
might have a "perfect life"
715
00:40:58,539 --> 00:41:01,459
but an underlying feeling
that something's off.
716
00:41:01,459 --> 00:41:03,211
And so we need to start
paying attention
717
00:41:03,211 --> 00:41:06,005
because these types of crimes
are happening
718
00:41:06,005 --> 00:41:08,925
right under our nose
and in every demographic
719
00:41:08,925 --> 00:41:10,760
and every neighborhood.
720
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,929
Since this podcast came out,
721
00:41:12,929 --> 00:41:15,223
I had so many people, like,
reaching out to me.
722
00:41:15,223 --> 00:41:17,517
We connected.
We understood each other.
723
00:41:17,517 --> 00:41:19,268
Like, we knew that feeling.
724
00:41:19,268 --> 00:41:21,270
It was really cool,
and it was really empowering
725
00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:24,190
to know that, like, something
that, like, I did or my mom did
726
00:41:24,190 --> 00:41:26,984
could empower someone so much
to even talk about it
727
00:41:26,984 --> 00:41:30,446
or even bring it
to the surface.
728
00:41:30,446 --> 00:41:32,573
Our goal was,
729
00:41:32,573 --> 00:41:36,244
if we can make one person
feel less alone
730
00:41:36,244 --> 00:41:38,996
and they are able to grow
and to heal, we did our jobs.
731
00:41:38,996 --> 00:41:41,374
♪ ♪
732
00:41:41,374 --> 00:41:44,419
I'm doing, like,
part-time working,
733
00:41:44,419 --> 00:41:45,878
and I'm doing part-time school.
734
00:41:45,878 --> 00:41:48,381
And I've made
so many new friends.
735
00:41:48,381 --> 00:41:50,174
I got a puppy.
736
00:41:50,174 --> 00:41:54,762
It's really, really cool
to see myself change and grow.
737
00:41:54,762 --> 00:41:57,306
The podcast allowed her to
738
00:41:57,306 --> 00:41:59,726
have a voice that she needed.
739
00:41:59,726 --> 00:42:02,562
All of a sudden, like,
it wasn't scary
740
00:42:02,562 --> 00:42:05,273
to do things
that we used to do,
741
00:42:05,273 --> 00:42:07,900
like, be around, like,
other men.
742
00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:10,069
♪ ♪
743
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:11,529
Now I don't even
worry about it.
744
00:42:11,529 --> 00:42:13,448
Like, I'm like,
if I see him, I see him.
745
00:42:13,448 --> 00:42:16,492
But there's not something
that you could even do
746
00:42:16,492 --> 00:42:19,620
to make this feeling ever
go away in your life, ever.
747
00:42:19,620 --> 00:42:22,540
Their family
is still recovering.
748
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:26,419
But when you hear
how Jason is doing--
749
00:42:26,419 --> 00:42:28,755
he's found God.
750
00:42:28,755 --> 00:42:31,799
He's good.
751
00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:35,136
He gets a fresh start.
752
00:42:35,136 --> 00:42:38,973
We don't get
a fucking fresh start.
753
00:42:38,973 --> 00:42:42,060
They don't have the privilege
or the opportunity
754
00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:44,228
to pretend like
it didn't happen.
755
00:42:44,228 --> 00:42:46,773
This is their reality
day in and day out.
756
00:42:46,773 --> 00:42:48,858
♪ ♪
757
00:42:48,858 --> 00:42:50,485
He's not there
758
00:42:50,485 --> 00:42:54,113
when Avaya is having
a panic attack
759
00:42:54,113 --> 00:42:56,282
or when our youngest daughter
760
00:42:56,282 --> 00:42:59,702
is having the worst
temper tantrum of her life.
761
00:42:59,702 --> 00:43:01,871
He doesn't have to see
762
00:43:01,871 --> 00:43:05,291
the consequences
of his actions.
763
00:43:05,291 --> 00:43:08,086
Justice won't ever come
from Jason
764
00:43:08,086 --> 00:43:11,297
for these kids and I.
765
00:43:13,841 --> 00:43:18,471
Justice for us will be
my kids succeeding
766
00:43:18,471 --> 00:43:20,848
and being amazing
767
00:43:20,848 --> 00:43:24,018
on their new path
that they're on
768
00:43:24,018 --> 00:43:27,104
and knowing that they did it
without him.
769
00:43:27,104 --> 00:43:29,315
♪ ♪
770
00:43:29,315 --> 00:43:31,526
That's our justice.
771
00:43:31,526 --> 00:43:38,533
♪ ♪