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00:00:06,131 --> 00:00:07,549
[Isobel]              
             Guyana is one

2
00:00:07,590 --> 00:00:10,677
of the fastest-growing      
        economies in the world.

3
00:00:12,429 --> 00:00:14,139
[Isobel]              
       But these deals have come

4
00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:15,640
with claims of corruption.

5
00:00:15,682 --> 00:00:19,019
speaking Chinese

6
00:00:20,061 --> 00:00:21,438
Do you accept bribes?

7
00:00:21,479 --> 00:00:22,522
No, I don't.

8
00:00:22,564 --> 00:00:24,774
When reporters           
          come from abroad,

9
00:00:24,816 --> 00:00:29,112
they always want to make      
     a developing-country leader

10
00:00:29,154 --> 00:00:30,613
look corrupt.

11
00:00:30,655 --> 00:00:33,575
[Alzo]   Interest in Moorish     
     nationalism continues to grow.

12
00:00:33,616 --> 00:00:36,286
They say              
   that they have ancestral rights

13
00:00:36,327 --> 00:00:37,537
to the land here.

14
00:00:37,579 --> 00:00:39,789
Moorish Americans don't do     
        those kind of things,

15
00:00:39,831 --> 00:00:41,666
and it's written in our laws.

16
00:00:41,708 --> 00:00:43,001
[Alzo]   Moorish nationals      
             don't believe

17
00:00:43,043 --> 00:00:44,878
they were ever citizens      
             to begin with.

18
00:00:44,919 --> 00:00:47,047
If the rules are wrong       
         in the first place,

19
00:00:47,088 --> 00:00:48,590
is it okay to break them?

20
00:00:48,631 --> 00:00:51,176
What is it exactly         
         that you all want?

21
00:00:51,217 --> 00:00:52,886
Freedom.

22
00:00:53,803 --> 00:00:57,015
dramatic music

23
00:01:07,275 --> 00:01:09,235
[shouting]

24
00:01:11,613 --> 00:01:14,574
tense music

25
00:01:25,293 --> 00:01:27,796
-[Isobel]   speaking Chinese     
     -[person]   speaking Chinese

26
00:01:27,836 --> 00:01:30,590
[person]   speaking Chinese

27
00:01:30,632 --> 00:01:33,093
-[person]   speaking Chinese     
     -[person]   speaking Chinese

28
00:01:33,134 --> 00:01:34,511
[Isobel]   speaking Chinese

29
00:01:34,552 --> 00:01:35,970
[person]   speaking Chinese

30
00:01:36,012 --> 00:01:38,014
[Isobel]   We're undercover     
          with business elites

31
00:01:38,056 --> 00:01:40,183
at a country retreat       
               in Guyana,

32
00:01:40,225 --> 00:01:43,728
one of the smallest countries   
           in South America.

33
00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:46,147
speaking Chinese

34
00:01:46,189 --> 00:01:47,398
[chuckles]

35
00:01:49,317 --> 00:01:52,445
speaking Chinese

36
00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:56,073
[Isobel]   Mm.

37
00:01:56,116 --> 00:01:57,951
speaking Chinese

38
00:02:00,161 --> 00:02:03,581
[Isobel]   This is one of many    
     times we've been told directly

39
00:02:03,623 --> 00:02:05,875
how corruption is rife here.

40
00:02:05,917 --> 00:02:07,585
We've been here for weeks,

41
00:02:07,626 --> 00:02:09,504
infiltrating business networks

42
00:02:09,546 --> 00:02:11,631
with links to China.

43
00:02:11,673 --> 00:02:13,174
The world's            
       second-biggest superpower

44
00:02:13,216 --> 00:02:16,219
has a rapidly growing presence 
               in Guyana.

45
00:02:16,261 --> 00:02:18,680
Much of that comes through    
        infrastructure projects,

46
00:02:18,721 --> 00:02:22,892
as China becomes the world's   
     largest funder of development.

47
00:02:22,934 --> 00:02:26,061
Guyana is one of nearly      
       150 countries in the world

48
00:02:26,104 --> 00:02:28,898
to be part of           
     the Belt and Road Initiative--

49
00:02:28,940 --> 00:02:31,276
a massive infrastructure push   
                by China

50
00:02:31,317 --> 00:02:34,487
to bring development funding   
        and soft-power influence

51
00:02:34,529 --> 00:02:36,531
around the globe.

52
00:02:36,573 --> 00:02:38,908
But as China expands       
          into South America,

53
00:02:38,950 --> 00:02:41,911
the U.S. sees their        
     growing presence as a threat.

54
00:02:41,953 --> 00:02:44,747
This is a region         
      where America has long held

55
00:02:44,789 --> 00:02:46,916
political             
        and regional dominance.

56
00:02:46,958 --> 00:02:49,419
[Biden]              
       China has an overall goal

57
00:02:49,460 --> 00:02:51,171
to become the wealthiest      
        country in the world

58
00:02:51,212 --> 00:02:53,923
and the most powerful country   
            in the world.

59
00:02:53,965 --> 00:02:56,467
That's not gonna happen      
            on my watch.

60
00:02:57,969 --> 00:02:59,179
[Isobel]              
             As for Guyana,

61
00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:01,806
they're just trying to keep    
        both superpowers happy,

62
00:03:01,848 --> 00:03:03,933
and China has been        
           a willing partner

63
00:03:03,975 --> 00:03:06,853
in funding            
     the country's growing economy.

64
00:03:06,895 --> 00:03:10,440
See, even out           
   in this very, very remote area,

65
00:03:10,481 --> 00:03:11,941
you can see            
       the Chinese influence.

66
00:03:11,983 --> 00:03:13,650
This is where they're building

67
00:03:13,693 --> 00:03:15,570
a massive             
      hydroelectric power plant

68
00:03:15,612 --> 00:03:18,114
with a Chinese          
       state-backed corporation.

69
00:03:18,156 --> 00:03:20,950
There's just one that's been    
    able to pick up that project,

70
00:03:20,992 --> 00:03:23,912
and that deal is worth hundreds 
       of millions of dollars.

71
00:03:23,953 --> 00:03:25,914
And what we've heard is that

72
00:03:25,955 --> 00:03:28,374
the only reason          
        they won that project

73
00:03:28,416 --> 00:03:31,586
is because             
      of a very sizable bribe.

74
00:03:31,628 --> 00:03:33,880
dramatic music

75
00:03:33,922 --> 00:03:36,633
China's widespread        
        infrastructure spending

76
00:03:36,674 --> 00:03:38,885
has come             
       with claims of corruption.

77
00:03:38,927 --> 00:03:42,263
In Guyana, there's a fear     
       that pattern will repeat.

78
00:03:42,305 --> 00:03:45,350
The country recently fell     
     on a global corruption index,

79
00:03:45,391 --> 00:03:48,645
meaning its citizens see it    
        as getting more corrupt.

80
00:03:48,686 --> 00:03:51,147
Add on a massive discovery    
                 of oil

81
00:03:51,189 --> 00:03:53,149
and foreign money         
       pouring into the country,

82
00:03:53,191 --> 00:03:57,362
the potential for more fraud   
            has skyrocketed.

83
00:04:01,282 --> 00:04:03,243
To find out            
       whether the highest levels

84
00:04:03,284 --> 00:04:06,621
of Guyana's government      
     are involved in corrupt deals,

85
00:04:06,663 --> 00:04:08,998
we went undercover.

86
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,167
My colleague,           
        who we'll call Mr. Chan,

87
00:04:11,209 --> 00:04:15,338
posed as a Chinee businessman   
      looking to invest in Guyana.

88
00:04:15,379 --> 00:04:17,882
I posed as his secretary.

89
00:04:33,773 --> 00:04:37,110
Arguably, the most powerful    
       politician in the country

90
00:04:37,151 --> 00:04:39,737
is the vice president,      
            Bharrat Jagdeo.

91
00:04:39,779 --> 00:04:41,948
He spent 12 years as president

92
00:04:41,990 --> 00:04:44,367
and still pulls          
         huge political weight.

93
00:04:44,409 --> 00:04:47,745
We're told the person who     
     can get us in a room with him

94
00:04:47,787 --> 00:04:50,456
is a man named Su Zhi Rong.

95
00:04:51,958 --> 00:04:54,002
speaking Chinese

96
00:04:54,043 --> 00:04:56,379
[man]   speaking Chinese

97
00:04:56,421 --> 00:04:59,257
[Isobel]   Mr. Su is         
      a longtime Guyana resident.

98
00:04:59,299 --> 00:05:01,801
He's one of the country's     
          biggest landholders

99
00:05:01,843 --> 00:05:03,427
in timber and mining,

100
00:05:03,469 --> 00:05:05,013
with stakes in oil as well.

101
00:05:05,054 --> 00:05:07,515
[man]   speaking Chinese

102
00:05:07,557 --> 00:05:11,144
[man 2]   speaking Chinese

103
00:05:19,777 --> 00:05:22,030
[Isobel]   Su openly bragged     
          about his influence

104
00:05:22,071 --> 00:05:23,239
with the vice president,

105
00:05:23,281 --> 00:05:25,742
who owns the house        
            that Su lives in

106
00:05:25,783 --> 00:05:27,869
and who he refers to       
              as his boss,

107
00:05:27,910 --> 00:05:32,290
and he says he can help us    
     in Guyana for the right price.

108
00:05:32,332 --> 00:05:35,460
speaking Chinese

109
00:05:38,671 --> 00:05:42,925
speaking Chinese

110
00:05:42,967 --> 00:05:44,969
[Mr. Chan]   speaking Chinese

111
00:05:45,011 --> 00:05:48,348
speaking Chinese

112
00:06:02,153 --> 00:06:04,614
[Isobel]              
      Su says the money we pay him

113
00:06:04,655 --> 00:06:06,240
under the guise          
         of legitimate business

114
00:06:06,282 --> 00:06:10,203
will actually make it       
         to the vice president.

115
00:06:10,244 --> 00:06:12,914
And Su's not the only person   
               to tell us

116
00:06:12,955 --> 00:06:14,999
that the service fees       
          these middlemen take

117
00:06:15,041 --> 00:06:17,126
are bribes for big deals.

118
00:06:17,168 --> 00:06:20,588
[Mr. Chan and man]         
            speaking Chinese

119
00:06:28,638 --> 00:06:30,139
[Isobel]              
       This is a general manager

120
00:06:30,181 --> 00:06:33,434
of China's largest        
      state-run construction firm.

121
00:06:33,476 --> 00:06:36,604
[man]   speaking Chinese

122
00:06:42,610 --> 00:06:43,820
[Isobel]              
        It's companies like his,

123
00:06:43,861 --> 00:06:46,823
linked directly to        
      the Chinese Communist Party,

124
00:06:46,864 --> 00:06:50,618
who win a lot           
     of Guyana's largest contracts.

125
00:06:50,660 --> 00:06:51,744
This guy works for one

126
00:06:51,786 --> 00:06:54,247
of the biggest          
        state-run organizations,

127
00:06:54,288 --> 00:06:56,958
and the way that they're     
      seeming to do business here

128
00:06:56,999 --> 00:06:59,460
is also very much         
            under the table.

129
00:06:59,502 --> 00:07:02,213
It does imply very much

130
00:07:02,254 --> 00:07:05,883
that the Beijing authorities    
    know exactly what's going on.

131
00:07:10,596 --> 00:07:12,098
Later, Su showed us evidence

132
00:07:12,140 --> 00:07:15,101
of his own involvement      
      in multimillion-dollar deals

133
00:07:15,143 --> 00:07:16,853
brokered between         
          Guyana's government

134
00:07:16,894 --> 00:07:19,730
and a large            
     Chinese state-run corporation,

135
00:07:19,772 --> 00:07:21,107
including a contract       
              for his work

136
00:07:21,149 --> 00:07:23,234
as an agent            
         on a big road project

137
00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:25,069
and letters sent         
          from the government

138
00:07:25,111 --> 00:07:27,113
about the same          
           hydro power plant

139
00:07:27,155 --> 00:07:30,199
we flew over           
          in the rain forest.

140
00:07:30,241 --> 00:07:32,160
For our deal,           
             Mr. Su painted

141
00:07:32,201 --> 00:07:34,912
a wide range           
     of investment opportunities--

142
00:07:34,954 --> 00:07:36,956
logging rights          
          in the rain forest,

143
00:07:36,998 --> 00:07:39,167
a stone quarry, gold mining,

144
00:07:39,208 --> 00:07:41,043
and, the most promising      
                of all,

145
00:07:41,085 --> 00:07:42,795
land in a prime location,

146
00:07:42,837 --> 00:07:45,089
where a hotel and casino     
             could be built

147
00:07:45,131 --> 00:07:47,884
to cash in on the oil boom.

148
00:07:47,925 --> 00:07:51,554
We agreed             
        that would be the deal.

149
00:07:51,596 --> 00:07:55,183
[Mr. Chan]   speaking Chinese

150
00:07:55,224 --> 00:07:58,811
[Su]   speaking Chinese

151
00:08:12,575 --> 00:08:15,745
[Isobel]   To confirm his access   
       to those at the very top,

152
00:08:15,786 --> 00:08:17,747
Su took our colleague,      
               Mr. Chan,

153
00:08:17,788 --> 00:08:19,123
over to his neighbor,

154
00:08:19,165 --> 00:08:21,834
none other            
        than the vice president.

155
00:08:21,876 --> 00:08:23,961
[Mr. Chan] Thank you so much    
           for seeing me.

156
00:08:24,003 --> 00:08:25,213
[Jagdeo]              
      Yeah, please have a seat.

157
00:08:25,254 --> 00:08:27,465
[Isobel]   Jagdeo avoided      
           talking specifics

158
00:08:27,507 --> 00:08:30,676
but told us            
         how close he is to Su.

159
00:08:49,695 --> 00:08:51,364
[Mr. Chan] I understand.

160
00:08:54,033 --> 00:08:55,243
[Mr. Chan] I know.

161
00:08:55,284 --> 00:08:57,078
[Isobel]   Su interjected,      
               telling us

162
00:08:57,119 --> 00:08:59,539
this wasn't the place       
        to talk about the bribe.

163
00:08:59,580 --> 00:09:01,624
[Su]   speaking Chinese

164
00:09:01,666 --> 00:09:02,291
I know. I know.

165
00:09:02,333 --> 00:09:07,088
[Mr. Chan]   speaking Chinese

166
00:09:07,129 --> 00:09:09,048
[Su]   speaking Chinese

167
00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:10,424
-[Mr. Chan] Okay.         
   -[Jagdeo] Thank you, Mr. Chan.

168
00:09:10,466 --> 00:09:13,052
[Mr. Chan] Thank you so much    
      for giving me your time.

169
00:09:13,094 --> 00:09:14,303
-[Jagdeo] Great.          
         -[Mr. Chan] I hope

170
00:09:14,345 --> 00:09:16,222
-I can see you again.       
     -[Jagdeo] Yes, definitely.

171
00:09:16,264 --> 00:09:18,641
[Mr. Chan] Thank you.       
        Thank you. Thank you.

172
00:09:18,683 --> 00:09:22,186
[Su]   speaking Chinese

173
00:09:36,367 --> 00:09:39,704
[Isobel]   Personal profit isn't   
     the only thing at stake here.

174
00:09:39,745 --> 00:09:43,874
The U.S. has criticized      
      Chinese funding as coercive,

175
00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:45,876
coming with strings attached.

176
00:09:45,918 --> 00:09:48,170
And last year           
        that seemed to ring true

177
00:09:48,212 --> 00:09:50,131
when Guyana made         
          a political decision

178
00:09:50,172 --> 00:09:54,260
that many saw as a direct     
     result of pressure from China.

179
00:09:54,302 --> 00:09:57,680
The island of Taiwan,       
     which China claims is its own,

180
00:09:57,722 --> 00:10:01,100
announced it was opening     
       a trade office in Guyana.

181
00:10:01,142 --> 00:10:03,102
The U.S. applauded the move,

182
00:10:03,144 --> 00:10:04,270
but only hours later,

183
00:10:04,312 --> 00:10:07,106
Guyana pulled out         
           of the agreement.

184
00:10:07,148 --> 00:10:08,649
One of our business associates

185
00:10:08,691 --> 00:10:11,235
who has close ties        
         to the Chinese embassy

186
00:10:11,277 --> 00:10:13,404
told us that the reason      
           Guyana pulled out

187
00:10:13,446 --> 00:10:15,823
was because            
          of Chinese funding.

188
00:10:15,865 --> 00:10:19,493
[man]   speaking Chinese

189
00:10:41,223 --> 00:10:44,602
[man]   speaking Chinese

190
00:10:53,569 --> 00:10:55,655
[laughter]

191
00:10:57,823 --> 00:11:00,409
[Isobel]   It wasn't until      
     months after our conversation

192
00:11:00,451 --> 00:11:04,497
that news of the $1.5 billion   
             became public,

193
00:11:04,538 --> 00:11:07,708
suggesting that our contact    
       did have inside knowledge

194
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:09,251
about what went down.

195
00:11:09,293 --> 00:11:10,544
When reached by phone       
               recently,

196
00:11:10,586 --> 00:11:13,589
he said he did not remember    
           ever saying this.

197
00:11:13,631 --> 00:11:16,467
Vice President Jagdeo       
         said no loan was made

198
00:11:16,509 --> 00:11:18,469
and that China          
        had never pressured them

199
00:11:18,510 --> 00:11:21,681
over Taiwan            
          or any other issue.

200
00:11:21,722 --> 00:11:24,100
No financing from anybody

201
00:11:24,141 --> 00:11:25,851
comes with political strings.

202
00:11:25,893 --> 00:11:27,144
[Isobel]              
          A few months later,

203
00:11:27,186 --> 00:11:28,729
we confronted           
           the vice president

204
00:11:28,771 --> 00:11:31,899
about whether the massive     
      influx of foreign investment

205
00:11:31,941 --> 00:11:33,109
is plagued by corruption

206
00:11:33,150 --> 00:11:36,278
and if he himself         
      has a part to play in that.

207
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,279
You know, Guyana has attracted

208
00:11:37,321 --> 00:11:39,240
a lot of foreign investment    
              recently.

209
00:11:39,281 --> 00:11:41,242
What is it             
      that Guyana has to offer?

210
00:11:41,283 --> 00:11:43,119
The opportunity to make money.

211
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,870
That is why            
       people are coming here,

212
00:11:44,912 --> 00:11:47,039
so that's             
       what I'm going to say.

213
00:11:47,081 --> 00:11:48,124
[laughter]

214
00:11:48,165 --> 00:11:50,042
I mean, this year         
      Guyana dropped two points

215
00:11:50,084 --> 00:11:51,794
on the               
    Transparency International's

216
00:11:51,836 --> 00:11:53,129
Corruption Perception Index,

217
00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:56,006
which puts it among        
   the most corrupt in the region.

218
00:11:56,048 --> 00:11:57,383
Do you accept           
     that within this government

219
00:11:57,425 --> 00:12:00,094
and within this country, there   
    is a problem with corruption?

220
00:12:00,136 --> 00:12:03,305
First of all, I have a problem   
         with the embassies,

221
00:12:03,347 --> 00:12:08,185
but we do have real corruption   
    in countries like ours, too.

222
00:12:08,227 --> 00:12:10,438
This is like a Blackness index.

223
00:12:10,479 --> 00:12:13,607
The darker you are,        
   the lower you are on the index.

224
00:12:13,649 --> 00:12:15,359
What about             
       within your government?

225
00:12:15,401 --> 00:12:17,611
Do you accept bribes?

226
00:12:17,653 --> 00:12:19,071
No, I don't.

227
00:12:19,113 --> 00:12:20,448
We've spoken to a number

228
00:12:20,489 --> 00:12:22,199
of Chinese businesspeople     
              in Guyana

229
00:12:22,241 --> 00:12:23,993
who said              
      that you do accept bribes

230
00:12:24,034 --> 00:12:25,536
and have said that, in fact,

231
00:12:25,578 --> 00:12:27,621
it's the only way         
        to get business done.

232
00:12:27,663 --> 00:12:30,249
Yeah, well,            
      I can't comment on that.

233
00:12:30,291 --> 00:12:32,501
You can just sit there       
         and fabricate that.

234
00:12:32,543 --> 00:12:34,462
Okay, well, let's talk       
     about specific individuals.

235
00:12:34,503 --> 00:12:37,590
What is your relationship     
        with Mr. Su Zhi Rong?

236
00:12:37,631 --> 00:12:38,924
Oh, Su...

237
00:12:38,966 --> 00:12:40,968
Oh, Su?

238
00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:43,554
My relationship?          
              Nothing.

239
00:12:43,596 --> 00:12:46,599
He is...he's a tenant       
         in my place, yeah.

240
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,184
And he's a good friend       
              of yours?

241
00:12:48,225 --> 00:12:49,518
Yes.                
              Um, yes.

242
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,270
Yes, he is a friend of ours.

243
00:12:51,312 --> 00:12:54,315
He claims that through his very 
     close relationship with you

244
00:12:54,356 --> 00:12:56,192
that he's able           
        to get any deal done.

245
00:12:56,233 --> 00:12:58,068
Well, I don't-I don't--

246
00:12:58,110 --> 00:12:59,528
Do you use middlemen like Su

247
00:12:59,570 --> 00:13:03,282
in order to take money       
           on your behalf

248
00:13:03,324 --> 00:13:04,992
so that you can keep        
          your hands clean?

249
00:13:05,034 --> 00:13:07,745
No.                
          The answer is no.

250
00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:10,790
We met with a manager from     
   a Chinese state-run corporation

251
00:13:10,831 --> 00:13:14,084
who confirmed that         
    they use individuals like Su

252
00:13:14,126 --> 00:13:15,544
in order              
       to get these deals done

253
00:13:15,586 --> 00:13:17,338
and that they pay them       
          a consulting fee,

254
00:13:17,379 --> 00:13:19,840
which essentially serves      
             as a bribe

255
00:13:19,882 --> 00:13:21,050
to individuals like you.

256
00:13:21,091 --> 00:13:22,468
I mean,              
     what would you say to that?

257
00:13:22,510 --> 00:13:25,387
Well, I don't know,        
    because, again, that's all...

258
00:13:25,429 --> 00:13:28,849
You're building everything     
           on what you met

259
00:13:28,891 --> 00:13:30,100
and what people told you.

260
00:13:30,142 --> 00:13:31,185
I don't know.

261
00:13:31,227 --> 00:13:33,354
I can't comment          
      on some anonymous manager

262
00:13:33,395 --> 00:13:34,522
now telling you something.

263
00:13:34,563 --> 00:13:35,773
I mean, these are individuals

264
00:13:35,815 --> 00:13:38,442
who have significant business   
      interest in this country.

265
00:13:38,484 --> 00:13:39,777
-Why do you think? Yes--      
   -[Isobel] So I'm just wondering

266
00:13:39,819 --> 00:13:41,654
that if so many people       
      are telling us one thing

267
00:13:41,695 --> 00:13:44,031
about, you know, this is      
    the way that deals get done,

268
00:13:44,073 --> 00:13:45,658
I'm wondering           
         what your take is.

269
00:13:45,699 --> 00:13:48,077
When reporters           
          come from abroad,

270
00:13:48,118 --> 00:13:50,579
this is their "catch you"     
           kind of thing.

271
00:13:50,621 --> 00:13:55,042
You always want to make      
     a developing-country leader

272
00:13:55,084 --> 00:13:58,629
look corrupt,           
      so you've done your bit.

273
00:13:58,671 --> 00:14:01,423
Will you investigate, at least, 
       you know, these claims?

274
00:14:01,465 --> 00:14:04,134
No, no, no, definitely I'm     
    gonna ask about all of this,

275
00:14:04,176 --> 00:14:07,137
but I can't comment reasonably.

276
00:14:07,179 --> 00:14:10,391
How can I comment         
          on these issues?

277
00:14:10,432 --> 00:14:11,934
[Isobel]   A few days        
         after meeting with us,

278
00:14:11,976 --> 00:14:14,895
Jagdeo released our interview   
             to the press,

279
00:14:14,937 --> 00:14:15,938
seemingly to get ahead

280
00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:18,357
of the onslaught         
          of public reactions.

281
00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:20,276
I heard that the reporter

282
00:14:20,317 --> 00:14:22,945
had certain special interests.

283
00:14:22,987 --> 00:14:26,323
[Isobel]   The Chinese state-run   
     firms mentioned in this piece

284
00:14:26,365 --> 00:14:27,908
didn't respond          
           to our questions,

285
00:14:27,950 --> 00:14:29,827
but the Chinese embassy      
          released a statement

286
00:14:29,869 --> 00:14:32,788
saying that all Chinese      
     companies operating in Guyana

287
00:14:32,830 --> 00:14:35,666
follow local laws         
      and international practices.

288
00:14:35,708 --> 00:14:38,544
Mr. Su also claimed        
      he'd never said these things

289
00:14:38,586 --> 00:14:40,337
and released a statement     
              saying that

290
00:14:40,379 --> 00:14:43,340
he's never acted on behalf    
       of any government official

291
00:14:43,382 --> 00:14:46,302
or promised any favor       
      or business-related reward.

292
00:14:46,343 --> 00:14:48,846
[Norton]              
       Let there be investigated,

293
00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,556
and that and only that

294
00:14:50,598 --> 00:14:54,268
will remove the suspicion     
          and allegations.

295
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:56,645
[Isobel]   Months later,       
           no investigations

296
00:14:56,687 --> 00:14:58,564
appear to have taken place,

297
00:14:58,606 --> 00:15:01,775
and the people of Guyana     
     are still left with questions

298
00:15:01,817 --> 00:15:06,780
about who gets to buy their    
      country and for what price.

299
00:15:13,537 --> 00:15:16,540
pensive music

300
00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:27,843
[Shanetta] The thing I like    
       about this neighborhood

301
00:15:27,885 --> 00:15:30,054
is every single house       
            seems to have

302
00:15:30,095 --> 00:15:31,513
its own little bit of charm.

303
00:15:31,555 --> 00:15:32,723
Just being a single woman

304
00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:35,184
trying to compete         
      with a lot of these couples,

305
00:15:35,225 --> 00:15:40,356
I lost out on about 13 houses   
     before I came across this one.

306
00:15:40,397 --> 00:15:42,191
When I walked in the door,

307
00:15:42,232 --> 00:15:44,026
I was like,            
           "This is my house.

308
00:15:44,068 --> 00:15:47,696
So, whatever I can do       
    to get it, I'm gonna get it."

309
00:15:47,738 --> 00:15:49,448
You guys, I'm not even kidding.

310
00:15:49,490 --> 00:15:52,660
this is the literal SWAT team   
          that was called.

311
00:15:52,701 --> 00:15:55,287
[Alzo]   Shanetta Little was     
     finalizing construction plans

312
00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:56,372
on her first home

313
00:15:56,413 --> 00:15:57,831
when a stranger          
           changed the locks

314
00:15:57,873 --> 00:16:00,918
and told her that the house    
      she bought was actually his.

315
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,836
[Shanetta]             
      They call themselves Moors.

316
00:16:02,878 --> 00:16:06,173
They basically say that      
     they have ancestral rights

317
00:16:06,215 --> 00:16:09,218
due to a lot of treaties      
          and tribunal law,

318
00:16:09,259 --> 00:16:12,513
that they have rights       
          to the land here.

319
00:16:12,554 --> 00:16:13,889
[Alzo]               
         So you buy this place.

320
00:16:13,931 --> 00:16:17,142
You have this amazing vision    
               for it,

321
00:16:17,184 --> 00:16:21,647
and all of a sudden,        
          you get a letter?

322
00:16:21,689 --> 00:16:24,358
Yes, I got two letters,      
              actually.

323
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,027
The first one,           
      I got from Jaleel-Hu El.

324
00:16:27,069 --> 00:16:30,823
There were, like, seals and    
      fingerprints and signatures,

325
00:16:30,864 --> 00:16:33,742
basically saying         
            that my home was

326
00:16:33,784 --> 00:16:36,745
on someone else's         
            ancestral lands.

327
00:16:36,787 --> 00:16:38,372
Well, I ignored it        
            the first time,

328
00:16:38,414 --> 00:16:40,164
and they sent me         
            another letter,

329
00:16:40,207 --> 00:16:42,001
saying because           
          I didn't respond,

330
00:16:42,041 --> 00:16:44,420
"Now we own this house."

331
00:16:44,461 --> 00:16:47,381
The third time was basically    
     when all shit hit the fan.

332
00:16:47,423 --> 00:16:50,800
So they sawed off the locks,    
       put their own locks on.

333
00:16:50,843 --> 00:16:53,386
He is now occupying the home.

334
00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:55,264
How did they get him out      
            of the house?

335
00:16:55,305 --> 00:16:56,390
Oh, they busted the door down,

336
00:16:56,432 --> 00:16:58,183
and they basically         
          dragged him out.

337
00:16:58,225 --> 00:16:59,351
And it was really scary.

338
00:16:59,393 --> 00:17:01,520
Like, you know,          
    I applied for a gun license,

339
00:17:01,562 --> 00:17:05,232
I got pepper spray,        
          you know, knives.

340
00:17:05,274 --> 00:17:06,233
Wow. Wow.

341
00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:08,944
It was really,           
        really traumatizing.

342
00:17:08,986 --> 00:17:11,739
Police officers still reeling   
        from a deadly attack.

343
00:17:11,780 --> 00:17:13,866
Three officers          
         were shot and killed.

344
00:17:13,907 --> 00:17:16,076
The manhunt is on         
           for this man--

345
00:17:16,118 --> 00:17:19,913
a career criminal considered   
     very armed and very dangerous.

346
00:17:19,955 --> 00:17:22,708
[Alzo]   In recent years,      
     isolated and random incidents

347
00:17:22,750 --> 00:17:25,335
of violence, fraud,        
        burglary, and squatting

348
00:17:25,377 --> 00:17:26,879
committed             
         by Moorish extremists

349
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,424
have put Moors on the radar    
     of law enforcement nationwide.

350
00:17:30,466 --> 00:17:31,592
[reporter]   A Newark home

351
00:17:31,633 --> 00:17:34,303
taken over            
     by an alleged extremist group.

352
00:17:34,344 --> 00:17:35,679
that not only           
           changed the locks

353
00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:38,807
but actually claimed ownership 
           over the property.

354
00:17:38,849 --> 00:17:40,559
[Alzo]   The man           
      who occupied Shanetta's home

355
00:17:40,601 --> 00:17:42,603
was never charged         
          and still maintains

356
00:17:42,644 --> 00:17:44,313
the land belongs to him.

357
00:17:44,354 --> 00:17:45,856
We did our best          
           to speak with him,

358
00:17:45,898 --> 00:17:47,483
but he demanded to be paid.

359
00:17:47,524 --> 00:17:49,610
So that interview         
             didn't happen,

360
00:17:49,651 --> 00:17:50,736
but we did find a video

361
00:17:50,778 --> 00:17:52,738
he posted             
       about the incident online.

362
00:17:52,780 --> 00:17:55,783
This is the actual claim      
      of not the house itself.

363
00:17:55,824 --> 00:17:57,701
It's actually the land.

364
00:17:57,743 --> 00:17:59,870
And it just so happened      
   that the house is on top of it.

365
00:17:59,912 --> 00:18:02,372
If she did not come off      
           so belligerent

366
00:18:02,414 --> 00:18:04,708
and so angry            
         and so aggressive,

367
00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:06,210
we would've sat her down,

368
00:18:06,251 --> 00:18:08,420
explained to her          
          what's going on.

369
00:18:08,462 --> 00:18:10,506
[Alzo]               
          So what is going on?

370
00:18:10,547 --> 00:18:12,174
Historically,           
           Moors are renowned

371
00:18:12,216 --> 00:18:13,467
as an incredibly powerful

372
00:18:13,509 --> 00:18:15,677
and influential group       
           of North Africans.

373
00:18:15,719 --> 00:18:16,929
They once controlled an empire

374
00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:19,389
that included           
        modern-day West Sahara,

375
00:18:19,431 --> 00:18:21,141
Algeria, Tunisia, and Spain,

376
00:18:21,183 --> 00:18:23,685
but many Moors believe      
        that the Moroccan empire

377
00:18:23,727 --> 00:18:25,771
expanded all the way       
            to the Americas,

378
00:18:25,813 --> 00:18:28,148
making all Black people      
         ultimately indigenous

379
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:31,777
to an America that predates    
     the United States altogether.

380
00:18:31,819 --> 00:18:34,905
For most of the one million    
      Moors across America today,

381
00:18:34,947 --> 00:18:36,615
that's just            
          their origin story.

382
00:18:36,657 --> 00:18:37,741
Many attend one

383
00:18:37,783 --> 00:18:39,576
of the official          
        Moorish Science temples

384
00:18:39,618 --> 00:18:41,870
and peacefully study       
            their own Quran,

385
00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:44,540
but for others, it's more     
         than just a religion.

386
00:18:44,581 --> 00:18:46,917
Their Indigenous identity     
           means land rights,

387
00:18:46,959 --> 00:18:49,419
citizenship,           
       and living under U.S. laws

388
00:18:49,461 --> 00:18:50,838
are all called into question.

389
00:18:50,879 --> 00:18:52,548
Why is that not the first thing 
           you want to do?

390
00:18:52,589 --> 00:18:54,675
Realign yourself          
         with your ancestry.

391
00:18:54,716 --> 00:18:56,760
Realign yourself          
      with the great god Allah.

392
00:18:56,802 --> 00:18:59,596
Realign yourself with your     
    birthright and your culture.

393
00:18:59,638 --> 00:19:01,056
So I want you           
    to write this down so that--

394
00:19:01,098 --> 00:19:03,642
for anyone who thinks they can   
     challenge this information,

395
00:19:03,684 --> 00:19:06,687
it's available--all scholars    
          know this stuff.

396
00:19:06,728 --> 00:19:09,773
Look up and be more enlightened 
        to what's out there.

397
00:19:09,815 --> 00:19:11,108
[Alzo]               
      There are many independent,

398
00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:13,819
nonviolent Moorish        
     organizations across the U.S.

399
00:19:13,861 --> 00:19:15,028
who believe            
          they were colonized

400
00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:17,489
and that state laws        
        shouldn't apply to them.

401
00:19:17,531 --> 00:19:19,741
One of them is          
         the Rise of the Moors.

402
00:19:19,783 --> 00:19:21,618
[reporter]             
       Disruptive and combative.

403
00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:23,787
They're all members        
       of the Rise of the Moors,

404
00:19:23,829 --> 00:19:26,165
an antigovernment,        
      sovereign-citizen movement.

405
00:19:26,206 --> 00:19:28,625
[reporter]   This is a group     
         that does not believe

406
00:19:28,667 --> 00:19:29,960
it needs to follow the law.

407
00:19:30,002 --> 00:19:32,045
[Alzo]   Julisa and her husband   
          are founding members

408
00:19:32,087 --> 00:19:33,714
of this              
        Rhode Island-based group

409
00:19:33,755 --> 00:19:34,840
who believe that the state

410
00:19:34,882 --> 00:19:36,717
doesn't have jurisdiction     
               over them.

411
00:19:36,758 --> 00:19:38,594
You all have been called      
             sovereign.

412
00:19:38,635 --> 00:19:40,888
You all have been called      
           antigovernment.

413
00:19:40,929 --> 00:19:42,848
Do any of those terms       
             ring true?

414
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:45,267
No, I think people like      
           a good villain,

415
00:19:45,309 --> 00:19:48,854
and I think that it's really    
       a lack of understanding

416
00:19:48,896 --> 00:19:49,980
of what we're doing.

417
00:19:50,022 --> 00:19:51,773
[Jamhal]              
        What are the charges?

418
00:19:51,815 --> 00:19:53,609
What am I being arrested for?

419
00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:55,444
[Alzo]   Last summer,        
            eleven members,

420
00:19:55,485 --> 00:19:56,987
including Julisa's husband,    
                Jamhal,

421
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:59,531
were arrested while en route   
         to a militia training

422
00:19:59,573 --> 00:20:00,866
and camping trip.

423
00:20:00,908 --> 00:20:03,493
None of them could produce    
      government driver's licenses

424
00:20:03,535 --> 00:20:05,537
or gun permits          
           for their weapons.

425
00:20:05,579 --> 00:20:06,830
Help me understand

426
00:20:06,872 --> 00:20:10,542
you all's relationship with    
    the United States of America.

427
00:20:10,584 --> 00:20:12,002
We, Moors,

428
00:20:12,044 --> 00:20:14,713
don't have anything to do with   
    the United States government

429
00:20:14,755 --> 00:20:15,881
because we don't belong.

430
00:20:15,923 --> 00:20:18,634
We belong             
       to the Moroccan empire.

431
00:20:18,675 --> 00:20:20,802
We want to have          
      our own separate nation,

432
00:20:20,844 --> 00:20:21,803
our own separate government--

433
00:20:21,845 --> 00:20:25,349
hospitals, towns,         
         schools, day cares,

434
00:20:25,390 --> 00:20:26,475
our own police.

435
00:20:26,516 --> 00:20:29,645
You know, we're getting our    
   rights violated left and right

436
00:20:29,686 --> 00:20:31,188
on the streets constantly.

437
00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:32,105
Black History Month--

438
00:20:32,147 --> 00:20:34,274
what do they show         
         on TV or in school?

439
00:20:34,316 --> 00:20:37,444
It's always so-called       
   Black people getting the hose,

440
00:20:37,486 --> 00:20:38,779
getting mauled by dogs.

441
00:20:38,820 --> 00:20:40,822
It's nothing uplifting at all.

442
00:20:40,864 --> 00:20:42,908
It's never,            
       "Look at what you were.

443
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:44,159
Look at what you can be."

444
00:20:44,201 --> 00:20:45,661
It's always, like,         
       "This is what you are,

445
00:20:45,702 --> 00:20:47,496
and this is what you're      
    always gonna continue to be."

446
00:20:47,537 --> 00:20:50,290
It's a form of propaganda     
          and brainwashing.

447
00:20:50,332 --> 00:20:51,500
[Alzo]   According to Julisa,

448
00:20:51,541 --> 00:20:53,585
the perfect storm         
            of civil unrest,

449
00:20:53,627 --> 00:20:55,879
police violence,         
          and systemic racism

450
00:20:55,921 --> 00:20:57,089
are attracting new members--

451
00:20:57,130 --> 00:20:59,758
people who are sick and tired   
           of the status quo

452
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,593
and frustrated          
       at the treatment of people

453
00:21:01,635 --> 00:21:02,678
who look like them.

454
00:21:02,719 --> 00:21:05,597
What is it exactly         
         that you all want?

455
00:21:05,639 --> 00:21:07,557
[Julisa] Freedom.         
        To not be oppressed.

456
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:10,602
To not have life          
          so hard to live.

457
00:21:10,644 --> 00:21:11,812
To just come together

458
00:21:11,853 --> 00:21:15,607
and establish           
      our actual own government

459
00:21:15,649 --> 00:21:17,818
and our own everything.

460
00:21:17,859 --> 00:21:21,280
[Alzo]   Until then, Moors and    
      non-Moors live side by side,

461
00:21:21,321 --> 00:21:24,032
sharing taxpayer-funded      
           public resources,

462
00:21:24,074 --> 00:21:26,618
but in an effort         
     to increase economic mobility

463
00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:28,870
and establish precedent      
             for autonomy,

464
00:21:28,912 --> 00:21:30,998
Moors nationals          
        are leveraging lawsuits

465
00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:32,332
to further their agenda.

466
00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:33,709
These goals are enough

467
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:35,335
to classify them         
           as antigovernment

468
00:21:35,377 --> 00:21:37,713
by the likes           
     of the Anti-Defamation League

469
00:21:37,754 --> 00:21:39,131
and law enforcement.

470
00:21:39,172 --> 00:21:41,633
[Kory]               
        This stuff represents

471
00:21:41,675 --> 00:21:43,802
a couple years of just       
      collecting and gathering,

472
00:21:43,844 --> 00:21:46,013
and you can be knee-deep     
         in paperwork quickly.

473
00:21:46,054 --> 00:21:48,932
[Alzo]   Called paper terrorism   
     by those on the receiving end,

474
00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:51,184
Moorish nationals         
        overwhelm court systems

475
00:21:51,226 --> 00:21:54,730
with retaliatory lawsuits,    
          liens, and filings,

476
00:21:54,771 --> 00:21:56,565
all creating           
         a paperwork hellscape

477
00:21:56,606 --> 00:21:57,816
for government officials,

478
00:21:57,858 --> 00:22:01,028
most of whom have no idea     
         what they're reading.

479
00:22:01,069 --> 00:22:02,946
Lieutenant Flowers, yeah?     
                Alzo.

480
00:22:02,988 --> 00:22:04,323
-[Kory] Good to see you.      
       -Thanks for having me.

481
00:22:04,364 --> 00:22:07,159
Kory Flowers has been a cop    
         for more than 22 years

482
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,786
and has spent time        
     infiltrating extremist groups

483
00:22:09,828 --> 00:22:11,872
and training           
          government employees

484
00:22:11,913 --> 00:22:12,956
on how to handle them.

485
00:22:12,998 --> 00:22:14,875
Hi. Good morning,         
          ladies and gents.

486
00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:15,876
Good morning.

487
00:22:15,917 --> 00:22:18,337
Moorish sovereigns         
           are very heavy

488
00:22:18,378 --> 00:22:20,047
into all manner of fraud,

489
00:22:20,088 --> 00:22:22,007
a lot of times           
         very complex fraud,

490
00:22:22,049 --> 00:22:24,885
like mortgage schemes,       
        postage-stamp fraud,

491
00:22:24,926 --> 00:22:27,929
credit-card fraud, wire fraud,   
        a lot of bank fraud.

492
00:22:27,971 --> 00:22:29,806
Paper terrorism--         
       you guys heard of this?

493
00:22:29,848 --> 00:22:33,060
You can use physical        
        legal documentation,

494
00:22:33,101 --> 00:22:34,019
whether it's putting a lien

495
00:22:34,061 --> 00:22:35,729
against              
      somebody else's property,

496
00:22:35,771 --> 00:22:37,773
filing a lawsuit          
        against somebody else

497
00:22:37,814 --> 00:22:39,024
in order to intimidate them,

498
00:22:39,066 --> 00:22:41,234
particularly            
   in their professional capacity,

499
00:22:41,276 --> 00:22:43,779
which definitely creates      
           stress, right?

500
00:22:43,820 --> 00:22:46,448
The idea that some folks      
         you guys deal with

501
00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:47,783
could impact your livelihood?

502
00:22:47,824 --> 00:22:49,493
That's a intimidating thing.

503
00:22:49,534 --> 00:22:50,869
[Alzo]               
        Flowers himself has been

504
00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:52,662
on the receiving end       
            of this tactic,

505
00:22:52,704 --> 00:22:54,790
which most often         
        targets law enforcement

506
00:22:54,831 --> 00:22:56,041
and core personnel.

507
00:22:56,083 --> 00:23:00,879
I'm wondering if you can walk   
      me through what this is.

508
00:23:00,921 --> 00:23:02,714
[Kory chuckles]          
     Yeah, so this is a lawsuit

509
00:23:02,756 --> 00:23:04,716
against              
      two former police chiefs,

510
00:23:04,758 --> 00:23:06,343
a couple mayors, me.

511
00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:09,096
In this fella's opinion,      
      these are all the people

512
00:23:09,137 --> 00:23:11,348
that he believes          
        wronged him legally.

513
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:14,101
So this is a lawsuit        
      for four billion dollars.

514
00:23:14,142 --> 00:23:16,603
-[Alzo] Four billion dollars?   
         -With a "B," yeah.

515
00:23:16,645 --> 00:23:17,896
Have you seen an increase

516
00:23:17,938 --> 00:23:20,107
in the number of people      
      claiming to be sovereign?

517
00:23:20,148 --> 00:23:21,817
Yeah, there's definitely      
          been an increase.

518
00:23:21,858 --> 00:23:24,736
Anytime you have, like, an     
    election where power changes,

519
00:23:24,778 --> 00:23:26,071
and especially           
          if party changes,

520
00:23:26,113 --> 00:23:27,697
you have effectively        
         half of the country

521
00:23:27,739 --> 00:23:30,242
that gets into a panic       
         to varying degrees.

522
00:23:30,283 --> 00:23:33,161
Panic like that will often     
   drive folks to these movements.

523
00:23:33,203 --> 00:23:36,581
What threat            
        do these folks pose?

524
00:23:36,623 --> 00:23:38,041
When you have a subgroup

525
00:23:38,083 --> 00:23:40,627
that just believes the rules    
     don't apply to them at all,

526
00:23:40,669 --> 00:23:42,045
like, that creates chaos.

527
00:23:42,087 --> 00:23:44,297
[Alzo]   There are now        
     almost three million messages

528
00:23:44,339 --> 00:23:46,091
to the government         
           to recognize Moors

529
00:23:46,133 --> 00:23:49,302
as a federally autonomous body 
        of Indigenous Americans,

530
00:23:49,344 --> 00:23:51,555
but that's not          
         what most Moors want,

531
00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:54,349
and distinguishing themselves   
           from that ideology

532
00:23:54,391 --> 00:23:56,059
has been a priority        
            for the original

533
00:23:56,101 --> 00:23:58,061
Moorish Science Temple      
              of America.

534
00:23:58,103 --> 00:23:59,521
There are Moors          
          across the country.

535
00:23:59,563 --> 00:24:02,315
We know of groups in       
      Rhode Island and New Jersey,

536
00:24:02,357 --> 00:24:03,900
but neither of those groups    
              are part

537
00:24:03,942 --> 00:24:05,944
of the Moorish Science Temple   
             of America,

538
00:24:05,986 --> 00:24:08,405
which are, like,          
      the OG Moorish Americans.

539
00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:10,365
We came here           
         to their headquarters

540
00:24:10,407 --> 00:24:12,534
to speak             
       to the supreme grand sheik

541
00:24:12,576 --> 00:24:15,912
to see if he thinks        
   these splinter groups are legit

542
00:24:15,954 --> 00:24:17,038
and if their practices

543
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,167
are in line            
    with their Moorish teachings.

544
00:24:20,208 --> 00:24:23,879
The Moorish Science Temple    
     of America was founded in 1913

545
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,297
by Noble Drew Ali,        
            who taught that

546
00:24:25,338 --> 00:24:27,883
all Black people were stripped 
       of their national identity

547
00:24:27,924 --> 00:24:30,552
and Islamic faith         
       through racist oppression.

548
00:24:30,594 --> 00:24:32,137
At its peak in the 1920s,

549
00:24:32,179 --> 00:24:34,514
it boasted upwards        
           to 35,000 members

550
00:24:34,556 --> 00:24:37,809
who aspired to uplift       
           a fallen humanity.

551
00:24:37,851 --> 00:24:39,311
We've come to Sunday school    
                to learn

552
00:24:39,352 --> 00:24:41,104
from the eighth-generation    
               successor

553
00:24:41,146 --> 00:24:42,814
of Prophet Noble Drew Ali--

554
00:24:42,856 --> 00:24:44,107
the supreme grand sheik.

555
00:24:49,112 --> 00:24:53,366
[bell ringing]

556
00:24:53,408 --> 00:24:57,370
[E.] Welcome            
      to today's Sunday school.

557
00:24:57,412 --> 00:25:00,123
I'm gonna ask           
        some questions first.

558
00:25:00,165 --> 00:25:03,627
Is a man white?

559
00:25:03,668 --> 00:25:05,795
Is a man Black?

560
00:25:05,837 --> 00:25:08,840
Man is not a color, period.

561
00:25:08,882 --> 00:25:13,845
Nationality was, is,        
      and will always be what?

562
00:25:13,887 --> 00:25:15,680
The order of the day.

563
00:25:15,722 --> 00:25:16,932
[Alzo]               
        What are the principles

564
00:25:16,973 --> 00:25:19,935
that the Moorish Science Temple 
        of America stand for?

565
00:25:19,976 --> 00:25:22,854
So there's love,

566
00:25:22,896 --> 00:25:24,856
truth,

567
00:25:24,898 --> 00:25:26,858
peace,

568
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:28,443
freedom,

569
00:25:28,485 --> 00:25:29,361
and justice.

570
00:25:29,402 --> 00:25:32,405
However, we do have        
       fundamental principles,

571
00:25:32,447 --> 00:25:34,491
and one of them is         
          obedience to law.

572
00:25:34,533 --> 00:25:36,910
We're not encouraging members   
           or anyone else

573
00:25:36,952 --> 00:25:41,248
to be involved in anything     
      unlawful and disgraceful.

574
00:25:41,289 --> 00:25:42,624
When the public sees Moors,

575
00:25:42,666 --> 00:25:45,752
it seems like they just lump    
       you all into one group.

576
00:25:45,794 --> 00:25:46,628
[E.]                
            That's true.

577
00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:48,004
But there are groups of Moors

578
00:25:48,046 --> 00:25:50,882
that don't comport themselves   
     in the way that you all do.

579
00:25:50,924 --> 00:25:52,259
How do you reconcile that?

580
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:54,427
They're robbers and schemers.

581
00:25:54,469 --> 00:25:56,805
Moorish Americans don't do     
        those kind of things,

582
00:25:56,846 --> 00:25:58,098
and it's written in our laws.

583
00:25:58,139 --> 00:25:59,808
We don't take           
         people's property,

584
00:25:59,849 --> 00:26:02,060
and we're not anti-American.

585
00:26:02,102 --> 00:26:04,354
This is not            
    an Afrocentric organization,

586
00:26:04,396 --> 00:26:06,731
and for those who try       
        to make it that way,

587
00:26:06,773 --> 00:26:07,983
they will pay the price.

588
00:26:08,024 --> 00:26:09,985
As the Moorish Science Temple   
             of America,

589
00:26:10,026 --> 00:26:12,195
do you feel any sense       
            of obligation

590
00:26:12,237 --> 00:26:15,532
to check those fringe groups?

591
00:26:15,574 --> 00:26:17,993
Oh, yeah, we check them      
           all the time...

592
00:26:18,034 --> 00:26:18,910
all the time.

593
00:26:18,952 --> 00:26:19,995
What does that look like?

594
00:26:20,036 --> 00:26:21,746
[E.] It looks like         
         you're being caught

595
00:26:21,788 --> 00:26:23,123
with your hand           
         in the cookie jar.

596
00:26:23,164 --> 00:26:25,458
And we see you with your hand   
        in the cookie jar...

597
00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:26,293
[chuckles]

598
00:26:26,334 --> 00:26:29,004
...and you still lie        
     that that's not your hand.

599
00:26:29,045 --> 00:26:30,922
But they don't have        
   to be told that they're wrong,

600
00:26:30,964 --> 00:26:33,133
as much as the law is telling   
      them that they're wrong,

601
00:26:33,174 --> 00:26:35,176
because whether          
      you have a fez on or not,

602
00:26:35,218 --> 00:26:37,345
if you're breaking the law,    
      you're breaking the law,

603
00:26:37,387 --> 00:26:38,763
and you're gonna get yours.

604
00:26:57,073 --> 00:26:58,450
[Alzo]               
      Jamhal has been incarcerated

605
00:26:58,491 --> 00:27:00,910
since last summer's        
           roadside incident.

606
00:27:00,952 --> 00:27:03,163
If convicted           
        on all 11 indictments--

607
00:27:03,204 --> 00:27:04,914
mostly weapons charges--

608
00:27:04,956 --> 00:27:07,417
he could be locked up       
              for decades.

609
00:27:07,459 --> 00:27:10,420
Julisa continues to attend    
       each of Jamhal's hearings.

610
00:27:10,462 --> 00:27:13,006
We were able to speak to him   
        through a recorded line

611
00:27:13,048 --> 00:27:15,175
after his most recent       
           pretrial hearing,

612
00:27:15,216 --> 00:27:17,802
where he remained steadfast    
            in his mission.

613
00:28:04,015 --> 00:28:07,018
dramatic music