1 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,000 ♪♪ 2 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,000 ♪♪ 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,000 That's funny, isn't it? 4 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,000 Yeah. That's William Shatner walking down the stairs in my house. 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,000 That's pretty funny. 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,000 What are you doing here? What? 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,000 How'd you get up there? That's the question. 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,000 I'm looking at the works of art all around here. The works of art. 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Your wife is a work of art. Did you know that? 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,000 I beg your pardon? Your wife is a work of art. 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 No, that's her parents. That's not me. How's that go? 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,000 I had nothing to do with that. Really? You didn't fashion anything? 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,000 I beg your pardon? The two of you together, forming-- 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,000 The two separate making a whole. Oh, man. 15 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,000 You know, now you're a biologist too. 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Bill Shatner. Avery Brooks. 17 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,000 Hey. Long time coming. 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,000 Yeah, man, you know, I told you, this is-- this is new, baby. 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,000 I've never done such a thing. 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,000 Avery had the capacity... 21 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,000 to be so enigmatic. 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:14,000 His intellect and the way he phrases and articulates his feelings, 23 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,000 they're advanced. 24 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,000 He's a big man, 25 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,000 but with his presence he seems enormous. 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,000 He's bold. He's soft. He's mellow. 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,000 With Avery, I felt like there was a way we were communicating without speaking. 28 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Avery Brooks is jazz. 29 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,000 I think about him more than probably any actor I ever worked with. 30 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,000 I wonder about him more. 31 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,000 He really is not that complicated. 32 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,000 It's just that he's deep. 33 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,000 I still try to unlock the mystery... 34 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,000 of who the hell is Avery Brooks. 35 00:01:49,523 --> 00:01:51,523 I'm William Shatner, 36 00:01:51,734 --> 00:01:54,734 and we're going close-up with Avery Brooks. 37 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,000 Every time you look at a human being... 38 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,000 you see something that you did not know, 39 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,000 especially if you didn't know him at all. 40 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,000 And you say, "Oh. 41 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,000 Oh, my." 42 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,000 ♪♪ 43 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,000 To try and describe a man like Avery Brooks is... 44 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,000 futile. 45 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,000 He's not comfortable with lines of demarcation. 46 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,000 He is someone who demands your attention... 47 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,000 and then rewards you for giving it. 48 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,000 An enigma to some, 49 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,000 Mr. Brooks is a man of multiple layers and talent. 50 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,000 Musician, 51 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,000 theater, film and television actor, 52 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,000 husband, father, professor. 53 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:45,000 But it was his role as Captain Benjamin Sisko on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine... 54 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,000 that would bring him into millions of our living rooms.. 55 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,000 for seven successful seasons. 56 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,000 But don't be fooled. 57 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,000 Mr. Brooks has no intention of allowing any one thing... 58 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,000 to define him. 59 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,000 I'm interested in the equation of life saving and life giving. 60 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,000 Period. 61 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,000 It doesn't matter what I'm doing. 62 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,000 Avery's first major television success came in 1985... 63 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,000 when he landed the role of Hak in the ABC television series Spenser for Hire... 64 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,000 and its spin-off, A Man Called Hawk. 65 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,000 But in 1992, 66 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,000 he was offered the role of Commander Benjamin Sisko in Deep Space Nine, 67 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,000 the third installment of the Star Trek television franchise, 68 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,000 which would bring him worldwide fame. 69 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,000 I asked Avery why he took the role. 70 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,000 I wanted to put my children through college. That's it. Got it. 71 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,000 That was part of it. 72 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,000 That's not really what it was. Wait. Don't retract that. 73 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,000 No, no, I'm not retracting. 74 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,000 I'm just going on to say, because I read the pilot. 75 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,000 That's what happened. 76 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,000 And I said, "Oh. Well. Oh. 77 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,000 This is very interesting to me." 78 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,000 One of the things that attracted me about the Star Trek... 79 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,000 was that I did not have prosthetic makeup on my face, 80 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,000 that somewhere, some 400 years hence, 81 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,000 that I would be human. 82 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,000 Completely human. 83 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,000 And brown... too. 84 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,000 See? 85 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:28,000 That is a beneficent... 86 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,000 fiction... 87 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,000 born out of the imagination... 88 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,000 of how we can be. 89 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:40,000 I think Avery-- his performances and in his personal life-- 90 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,000 he... pays attention. 91 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,000 And it's a very, um, dignified quality of his. 92 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,000 He doesn't just communicate to you with words. 93 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,000 It's-- 94 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,000 It's like life is more complicated and layered than that. 95 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,000 And he sees all that. 96 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,000 He sees the layers, feels the layers, 97 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,000 and he's trying to communicate all of that to you in the simplest way. 98 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:10,000 And it demands from you that you be-- that you be relaxed, open... 99 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,000 and just be yourself. 100 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,000 Otherwise, he can see right through you. 101 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,000 You know, when Armin and I would do a scene-- Quark and Odo-- 102 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,000 we would sort of-- "Oh, I screwed it up." 103 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,000 And the crew and everybody would be talking and doing their thing. 104 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,000 But when you would get in scenes with Avery, there was a, you know-- 105 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,000 down to business. 106 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,000 When he's on the set, everybody pays attention. 107 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,000 Everybody brings their "A" game. 108 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Everybody makes sure that they're not wasting his time or their time. 109 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,000 'Cause he's making sure that he's on top of it. 110 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,000 Avery Brooks's professional acting career began on stage, 111 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,000 as do so many fine actors. 112 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,000 His critically acclaimed performances in productions such as Othello and King Lear... 113 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,000 and Christopher Marlowe's Tamburlaine... 114 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,000 have captivated audiences since the 1970s. 115 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,000 But it is his portrayal of Paul Robeson, 116 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,000 the famous singer, actor and civil rights leader... 117 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,000 in a one-man show... 118 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,000 that has perhaps resonated the most with Avery, 119 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,000 who is dedicated to preserving the legacy of this great historical figure. 120 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,000 In 1919, Robeson became one of the first African-Americans... 121 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,000 to graduate from Rutgers University. 122 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:29,000 Fittingly, Avery would graduate from Rutgers over a half a century later. 123 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,000 Avery has a sense of... 124 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,000 himself and his-- 125 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:41,000 and pride in who he is, where he comes from, 126 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 hat his view of the world is... 127 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,000 and his view of working as an artist. 128 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,000 And there is tremendous dignity and pride. 129 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,000 You're a latter-day Paul Robeson. 130 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,000 No, I'm not. Yes, you are. 131 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,000 He was, obviously, a hero of yours-- 132 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,000 Yeah. for a long time. 133 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Yes. Even as a kid? 134 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,000 Oh, sure. 135 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,000 That is to say that I grew up understanding... 136 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,000 the-- the people in the culture who move us forward. 137 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:14,000 I mean, my-my-- my heroes are my parents. 138 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,000 And then, moving through the neighborhood, 139 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,000 through the community, that's what I knew. 140 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,000 I listened to the great music. 141 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,000 I listened to great people. 142 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,000 I understood who Paul Robeson was. 143 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,000 I understood who Nat Turner was. I understood who Denmark Vesey was. You see? 144 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,000 Did Paul Robeson influence your playing of Star Trek? 145 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,000 If you want to talk about in the sum of what I know-- 146 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,000 Well, what influences you. Yes. Yes, absolutely. 147 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Because without Paul Robeson, I'm not on Star Trek. 148 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,000 What do you mean? That is to say that I wouldn't be here. 149 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,000 I wouldn't be there without Brock Peters. 150 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,000 I wouldn't be there without Canada Lee. 151 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,000 I wouldn't be there without Sidney Poitier. 152 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,000 I wouldn't be there without William Warfield. 153 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,000 I mean, I could go on and on. That's the fact of the matter. 154 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,000 But you're talking about cultural acceptance of black guys being-- 155 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:08,000 I'm talking about Hollywood, baby, the way it works. Okay, Hollywood. 156 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,000 And I am not in any way... 157 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,000 fooled, cajoled... 158 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,000 to think, by virtue of Star Trek or any other reality, 159 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,000 that I am in some other place. 160 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,000 I'm-- You know, I'm exactly who I was before the fact. 161 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,000 When Deep Space Nine began, 162 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,000 we all knew we were go 163 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,000 and to be honest, at the beginning we had no idea... 164 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,000 how we were gonna deal with the character of Sisko. 165 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:42,000 Avery Brooks was the first African-American lead in a Star Trek series, 166 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,000 but he wasn't cast as a captain. 167 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,000 He was cast as Commander Benjamin Sisko. 168 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:52,000 When Mike and Rick originally conceived the character of Ben Sisko, 169 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,000 the idea was to make him a commander, 170 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,000 a younger-- younger man, less experienced. 171 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,000 Pete Fields and I, at the time, were the only two guys on staff. 172 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:08,000 We came on and we were already developing stories before the show had been cast. 173 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,000 And then suddenly they were all excited about this audition they had just had, 174 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,000 and it was with Avery Brooks. 175 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,000 I'm thinking, "Avery Brooks from Hawk?" 176 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,000 And here's a guy who's not in any way a young man-- 177 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,000 he's a man with gravitas... 178 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,000 and, uh, strength. 179 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,000 And we're thinking, commander? 180 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,000 Why isn't he a captain? 181 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,000 I just thought, 182 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,000 I haven't treated Star Trek with the seriousness that I had when I made it. 183 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:43,000 I realize that all these... jocular things that have been said about me-- 184 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,000 Yes? 185 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,000 And I thought, "Maybe Star Trek isn't all that good." 186 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,000 When people come up to me and said, "My life changed because of what you did," 187 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,000 I would think, "They don't really mean that." 188 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,000 Well, I-I don't know. 189 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,000 I can't make the case. 190 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,000 But, you know, except for the spandex-- 191 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,000 When we did that crossover thing, you know-- 192 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,000 Uh, Lieutenant-- Benjamin Sisko, sir.tenant-- 193 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,000 I've been on temporary assignment here. 194 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,000 Before I leave, I just want to say... 195 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,000 it's been an honor serving with you, sir. 196 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,000 The uniforms-- I mean, Lord. Huh? 197 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,000 Huh! No lunch. That was no fun, baby. 198 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,000 But you did it, and you were good at it. 199 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,000 Come on. That's what you did. 200 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,000 What did you do? 201 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,000 As Cagney talked about it, you know, 202 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,000 you spend a nickel and take a chance. 203 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,000 I go to work every day. 204 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,000 You know? Just like that. 205 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,000 I'm not thinking about anything... 206 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,000 but, you know, looking and talking to the people who are in front of me. 207 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,000 That's all I'm doing. 208 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,000 He wasn't on a starship that was going places. 209 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,000 He was in a station that was stationary. 210 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,000 What some people complained about... 211 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,000 was that he seemed to be nothing more than a hotel director... 212 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,000 because he was dealing with problems in the restaurant... 213 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,000 or he was dealing with problems in the engineering side of things. 214 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,000 The stories didn't go anywhere. They couldn't go anywhere. 215 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,000 Which is one of the reasons that it was hard for the writers... 216 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,000 to write the kind of episodes that Star Trek was known for. 217 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,000 It seemed like we were doing The Love Boat without the lov. 218 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,000 Kirk and Picard were so clearly defined, 219 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,000 whether they were fighting or whether they were negotiating. 220 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,000 You understood why they were doing it. 221 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,000 They had to find different ways to involve the characters with one another. 222 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,000 It became the first Star Trek series that was character-driven. 223 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,000 Prior to that, it had always been story-driven. 224 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:39,000 I think Deep Space Nine may end up, of those series, 225 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,000 being the most complex in terms of the characters. 226 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:48,000 Every character had some big, strange problem, you know. 227 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,000 When we started the show he had hair and no goatee, 228 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:58,000 and that bothered him every second of every day that we filmed. 229 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,000 He hated it. 230 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:05,000 With Sisko, he started out as a guy who had lost his ship, lost his wife, 231 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,000 was not happy to be at the place where he was. 232 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,000 That's asking the audience to make a huge left turn... 233 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,000 in getting behind this character. 234 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,000 And it was very difficult for them to do that. 235 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,000 And we didn't make it easy for them, unfortunately. 236 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,000 He loved the character. He wanted this character to be precisely proposed. 237 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,000 The bald head with the goatee was part of the look. 238 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,000 It was part of the defining of who this person was. 239 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,000 People used to ask me, how does it feel to be a brown person-- 240 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,000 the first black captain? 241 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,000 I can't think about that. No. Absolutely not. 242 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,000 - You know, you're almost brown. Look. - I am. 243 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,000 - I don't know how to ask the question. - Go on. Go on. 244 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,000 Is there an anger? Is there any resentment? 245 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,000 Yeah. I'm angry about the condition of the world. 246 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Why don't we start there? It has nothing to do with color. 247 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,000 The intellect that I've been given as a human being... 248 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,000 allows me to talk about the world, 249 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,000 not in terms of color, but in terms of circumstance of the human condition. 250 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,000 That's where I begin. 251 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,000 Now, you want to put it in terms of television and Hollywood and all that, 252 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,000 that's what they're looking at-- here, here, here, here. 253 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,000 They want me to be this way, and I'm not. 254 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,000 I'm not the black dude in the pink hat. 255 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,000 And that's what's so interesting talking to you now. 256 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,000 I could sit here and talk about, you know, some resentment or some anger, 257 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,000 and I don't have that. 258 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,000 How we treat each other. 259 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,000 I have the rage about that. 260 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,000 - You're firing me? - I have no choice, Benny. 261 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,000 It's his decision. 262 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,000 Well... you can't fire me. 263 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,000 I quit! 264 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,000 To hell with you... 265 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,000 and to hell with Stone! 266 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,000 - Try to stay calm, Benny. - No. 267 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,000 I'm tired of being calm. Calm never got me a damn thing. 268 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,000 Chinua Achebe-- 269 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,000 Nigerian, brilliant novelist, thinker-- 270 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,000 talks about two kinds of imagination. 271 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,000 One benevolent, the other malevolent. 272 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,000 A set of people should not exist on the planet. 273 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,000 It's fiction. It comes out of the imagination. 274 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:20,000 There is this benevolent way of imagining humankind and our world, 275 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,000 and there's another way. 276 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,000 And that is our history. 277 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,000 You know, of mankind. 278 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,000 That's our history. 279 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,000 In the third season, 280 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,000 I went to see Avery do his one-man show as Paul Robeson, 281 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,000 and I was blown away. 282 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 He had such a life force in him. 283 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,000 He was funny. He was personable. 284 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,000 You felt and empathized with him. 285 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,000 I went back to the writers room and said, 286 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,000 you know, it's not him. 287 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,000 It's us. 288 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,000 We're not doing justice to the actor. 289 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,000 It wasn't until they made him the captain of the Defiant... 290 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,000 that it totally changed it for the writers... 291 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,000 and for him as an actor. 292 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,000 He was a captain now. He could command a crew on a ship, 293 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,000 and they could go places. 294 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,000 And it totally changed it. 295 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,000 In my opinion, after the third season, 296 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,000 we had the most interesting, 297 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,000 most multidimensional captain... 298 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,000 in the history of the franchise. 299 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,000 I think that what Avery and the Emissary... 300 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,000 and Sisko all brought to Deep Space Nine... 301 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,000 was a great deal of the reason that the audience continued to tune in. 302 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,000 He was the Emissary. 303 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,000 He had something to him that was an incredibly deep and rich part of the captain... 304 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,000 that I don't think any of the other captains had. 305 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,000 He was a leader. He was a father. 306 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,000 He was a friend. He was a lover. 307 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000 And he turned out to be God. 308 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,000 You love Sisko. 309 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000 You love what the writers did. 310 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Then you love Gene Roddenberry. 311 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,000 You have to keep going to talk about the things and how it was created. 312 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,000 You say, "Oh, Captain Sisko." So what? 313 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,000 I didn't write it. Hmm? 314 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,000 I spoke the words. I surely did. 315 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,000 I'm a very small part of this huge, huge thing... 316 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,000 that was going on long before me. 317 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,000 And so I acknowledge where that power comes from. 318 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000 In 1976, Avery became the first African-American... 319 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,000 to receive a Master of Fine Arts degree... 320 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,000 in Acting and Directing from Rutgers, 321 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,000 where he is currently a tenured professor of theater... 322 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,000 at the Mason Gross School of the Arts. 323 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000 I came from teachers. That's true. 324 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,000 My mother-- teaching 40-plus years in public school... 325 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000 and teaching private lessons. 326 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000 Choral music, piano, organ-- all that stuff. 327 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,000 And then my grandmother-- Mississippi-- 328 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,000 you know, 44, whatever those years were. 329 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,000 You know, so if I live, 330 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,000 then perhaps-- longer-- 331 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,000 then I'll have something to teach. 332 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,000 But I'm not fooled. 333 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,000 I've gained information, and I'm really interested in it. 334 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,000 What information are you learning in this school? 335 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,000 Well, it's the exchange of the discovery, isn't it? 336 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,000 The discovery-- Discovery. Discovery of self. 337 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,000 Oh, really? Indeed. It's not that easy. 338 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,000 The classes aren't dull, even though I haven't been teaching full time for a while. 339 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,000 You know, I'm gonna sit in front of somebody and say what? 340 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,000 I'm gonna tell you the truth. I'm gonna ask you a question. 341 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,000 "Are you telling the truth?" 342 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,000 But how do I know? No, no, no. 343 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,000 That's the point. You have to answer it. 344 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,000 Well, I'll answer it, but how do I know it's the truth? 345 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,000 And how to you know that, if it were the truth, that it is the truth... 346 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000 or that I'm trying to make something up to please teacher? 347 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,000 It's based on belief and faith and all that stuff... 348 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,000 which moves us into this, you know, 349 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,000 these other places I'm talking about. 350 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,000 And it is the "highfaluting"-- 351 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:58,000 It is the high-reaching place of human expression... 352 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,000 that I know is at the base of what I come from. 353 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,000 It is not about the job. 354 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,000 It's not about the award or the thing. 355 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,000 It's about expression. 356 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:14,000 On any set, be it Star Trek or any TV series, 357 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,000 the star of the show sets the tone. 358 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,000 And I think Avery set the tone... 359 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:29,000 in terms of what he saw the show being. 360 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:34,000 We didn't play a lot of practical jokes and pranks, 361 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,000 which surprised the fans. 362 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,000 They expected that we were, you know, 363 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000 just as crazy and wild as The Next Generation. 364 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,000 Sometimes The Next Generation-- 365 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,000 on the other side of the alley at the studio-- 366 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,000 would finish while DS Nine was still shooting. 367 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,000 And they would come over, and they couldn't believe... 368 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,000 how different the attitude was on the set. 369 00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:00,000 What we did have was a seriousness and an intensity. 370 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,000 And I do think that it came across... 371 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,000 when you watched the show. 372 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:11,000 The Deep Space Nine set was-- was... 373 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,000 a place where people worked... 374 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,000 rather than went to kid around and have "fun." 375 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,000 But I will say it was a very welcoming set. 376 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000 Avery Brooks is the only person... 377 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,000 that knew everybody's name on the set. 378 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,000 Seven years later, 379 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,000 sometimes you don't know who that guy, you know, 380 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,000 hanging up there, what his name is. 381 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,000 Avery did. 382 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,000 He called everybody out by their first and last name. 383 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:42,000 It made you feel like... this is important, what's going on. 384 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,000 wrap it around that pain and toss them both away. 385 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,000 But it doesn't work like that. 386 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,000 Running may help for a little while, 387 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,000 but, sooner or later, the pain catches up with you. 388 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,000 And the only way to get rid of it... 389 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,000 is to stand your ground and face it. 390 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000 I believe everything is music. That's exactly right. 391 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,000 I've done so many things-- the Shakespeare Theatre in Washington, 392 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,000 doing Christopher Marlowe's Tamburlaine. 393 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,000 You know, the free verse and the meter. 394 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,000 It's so large. 395 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,000 This wild, enormous piece. 396 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,000 So how else can I think about it except in terms of music? 397 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,000 I can't. I opened in Tamburlaine. 398 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000 In the Winter Garden, Stratford, Ontario. 399 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000 What year was that? Middle '50s. 400 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000 Guthrie's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 401 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,000 Yeah, it was my introduction to American television. That's great. 402 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,000 They-They filmed it? 403 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000 No, but the producers came to see it, 404 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000 and I got some notices. 405 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,000 And that was how I got-- broke into TV. Is that right? 406 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,000 I didn't know that. Out of Tamburlaine. 407 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,000 I played Usumcasane, your-- 408 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,000 Oh, Usum-- Yeah. I remember that. 409 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,000 Isn't that wild? Is that an incredible coincidence-- 410 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,000 that the two of us played that piece? 411 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,000 Unknown piece. Who's ever heard of Marlowe's Tamburlaine? 412 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,000 Actually, that we should not have played it together. 413 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,000 We should have. 414 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,000 That's Avery Brooks. He hits the high notes. 415 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,000 And he can pause and leave everybody still. 416 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,000 Most of us had huge theater backgrounds, 417 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,000 and I do think it made a very big difference. 418 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,000 Not just in our discipline working, 419 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,000 but also the way we interacted. 420 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,000 What's he gonna say next? 421 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,000 What's he gonna do next? 422 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,000 It was exciting to work with Avery... 423 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,000 because it was like you showed up for a tennis game, 424 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000 and suddenly a basketball would come at you. 425 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,000 That's how we watch him. We don't know-- What's he gonna do next? 426 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,000 We just love it though. 427 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,000 Any scene-- especially two-character scenes-- 428 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,000 is like a sport. 429 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000 And you're playing it together... 430 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000 and you want to get the volleys going. 431 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000 You're not competing with each other. 432 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,000 But you are demanding of each other... 433 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,000 that you deliver the goods. 434 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,000 ♪♪ 435 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,000 ♪ I'll be tired of you ♪ 436 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,000 ♪ Not before dinner ♪ 437 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,000 ♪ When ♪ 438 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000 ♪ Grass is tired of growing ♪ 439 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,000 Oh, that's fun. 440 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,000 ♪ I'll be tired of you ♪ 441 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,000 ♪ When music reaches its end ♪ 442 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000 ♪♪ 443 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,000 Go on. 444 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,000 ♪ Music goes on ♪ 445 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,000 ♪ And so does my love ♪ 446 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,000 ♪ The notes go on ♪ 447 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,000 ♪ Then I'll be tired ♪ 448 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,000 ♪ Of you ♪ 449 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,000 ♪ Of ♪ ♪ You ♪♪ 450 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:48,000 Here. 451 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,000 ♪ You ♪ 452 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,000 ♪ You, you, you ♪ 453 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,000 No, no. It's right here. 454 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,000 ♪ You ♪♪ B-natural. 455 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000 You're not gonna keep most of this stuff, so it's okay. 456 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,000 What are you talking about? That's what I'm talking about. 457 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,000 This is a special. It's horizontal. It's your show. 458 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,000 And it's horizontal. That's how it works. 459 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,000 I don't know what our show is, 460 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,000 and I think what we're doing here is monumental actually. 461 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,000 It's certainly unusual. 462 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,000 It's-- Yeah. I'd say. 463 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,000 Unique probably. 464 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,000 Listening to him play... 465 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,000 reminded me of one of the best decisions... 466 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,000 I made during the production of my documentary, The Captains-- 467 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000 bringing Avery aboard... 468 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,000 as the music supervisor for the film. 469 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,000 Mr. Shatner called and said that he would like me... 470 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,000 to do this music. 471 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,000 And then I said, "Well, I know who I need. 472 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,000 His name is Andy Milne." 473 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,000 He's one of the finest pianists that I have ever heard, 474 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,000 whose virtuosity... 475 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,000 is in no way an impediment... 476 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,000 to the breadth of empathy... 477 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,000 and feeling. 478 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,000 Avery Brooks called me and asked me... 479 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,000 if I'd be interested to score the music... 480 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,000 for a documentary about the captains of Star Trek. 481 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,000 The next thing you know, Bill Shatner gave me a call... 482 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000 and said, "Are you ready to do this? 483 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,000 And I said, "Sure." 484 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,000 His facility is an understanding of the piano, 485 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,000 you know, in a way that it's both percussive... 486 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,000 and this incredible orchestra in your hands. 487 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,000 Avery and I have known each other for several years. 488 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,000 I've been performing with him in New York... 489 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000 and recorded on his CD. 490 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,000 ♪♪ ♪ You and I ♪ 491 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000 I've improvised many aspects of this... 492 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,000 in sort of dialogue with the characters and the actors in the film. 493 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,000 And that's different than taking musical ideas and preparing them... 494 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,000 and coming to the studio to record them. 495 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000 I think when I was young, 496 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,000 acting was, for me, the great escape. 497 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,000 My parents would disappear for a few days, 498 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,000 go to New York, see a Broadway show and come back home--- 499 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,000 We're putting music... 500 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,000 to a film as it is happening, 501 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,000 extemporaneously. 502 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000 So it's real-- real fat. 503 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,000 Avery and I are working back and forth throwing ideas at each other, 504 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000 and somehow it's coming together. 505 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,000 It's magic actually. I think it's a really interesting process. 506 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,000 What register it was, that doesn't matter. 507 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000 No, I'm talking about higher in key. 508 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,000 Okay. With a "B"? Up a tritone? 509 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,000 ♪♪ 510 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,000 Yeah. 511 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,000 So we're in the midst of it now. Deep in it. 512 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,000 Let's get into Vegas actually. Let's do the second thing. 513 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,000 - You wanna see Vegas? - Yes. Correct. 514 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,000 Let's tackle that one. 515 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,000 Part of me feels like we're-- 516 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,000 There's something historic happening here. 517 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,000 And it's, like, pretty cool to be engaged in it, you know. 518 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000 We're thrilled with it. Okay? You cool? 519 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000 I had fun. That's great. You're cool? 520 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,000 Yeah. Okay. 521 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,000 So now pressing on. What's the next one? 522 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,000 The unknown... 523 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,000 is part of the wonder of living, after all. 524 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,000 What may be orthodox for one... 525 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,000 is certainly not orthodox for all. 526 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,000 ♪♪ 527 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,000 Those great songs. 528 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,000 Whoa. 529 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000 ♪♪ 530 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,000 ♪♪ 531 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,000 We could go on. 532 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000 We could. We could tour. 533 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,000 You know we could. 534 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,000 Thank you so much. 535 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000 It's great to see that aspect of you... 536 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,000 and to get to know that part of you. 537 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000 Or to become acquainted with it. 538 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,000 Hey, man. 539 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,000 Over the shoulder. 540 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,000 Yeah. 541 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,000 The wonder of being alive. 542 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,000 The wonder of possibility. 543 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000 That's what Mr. Roddenberry created, et cetera. 544 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,000 Not alone, but that's what he did. 545 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,000 And then the people took it. 546 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,000 You admire so many-- 547 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,000 Like for example, people like-- Well, me, I admire Brando. 548 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,000 - I admire you. - I admire you. 549 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000 - Okay. - All right. 550 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,000 - But I've had no influence on your work. - No, you haven't. 551 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,000 - But yes, you have. - How? 552 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,000 And-And this-- this moment is what we witness. 553 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000 See? That's the beauty of it. 554 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000 - The moment of-- - Yes. You and I. 555 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,000 - Right now. - That's it. 556 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,000 - The interaction. - I think so. 557 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,000 And you will have influenced me. 558 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,000 I will take from this conversation you... 559 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000 and will remember essences of you until I die. 560 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,000 Yeah. You could also play it back. 561 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,000 Not fully. 562 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,000 "Who was your favorite character?" Child asked me. 563 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Huh? What do you mean, 564 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000 who's my favorite character in Star Trek? 565 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000 It's gotta be Sisko. What?