We are rapidly approaching the conclusion
of "Better Call Saul," and I cannot wait to see
what unfolds on next week's series finale,
but, first, tonight's episode took us on a wild ride
that was heartbreaking and hilarious and exhilarating.
Not only did Kim survive the "Breaking Bad" era,
but she made a new life in Florida,
and she swapped arguing in court
for small talk about what makes mayonnaise mayonnaise.
But after a surprise phone call from Gene,
Kim decided to come clean,
try to make amends for her role in Howard's death.
Meanwhile, Gene's brazen behavior
seems to have caught up with him
as Marion saw through his con and alerted the police.
So what will Saul do now that his cover's been blown,
what will be the fallout of Kim's confession,
and what fate awaits Saul in next week's series finale?
On tonight's show, we're gonna talk about all of it.
We have interviews with the cast and producers,
including ones with Giancarlo Esposito,
Tony Dalton, and Carol Burnett.
My guests are executive producers
and creators of "Better Call Saul,"
Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould,
the one and only Bob Odenkirk, AKA Jimmy, AKA Saul, AKA Gene,
and Kim Wexler herself, Rhea Seehorn.
I'm Chris Hardwick, and this is "Talking Saul."
[Cheers and applause]
♪
[Cheers and applause continue]
Welcome.
Please say hello my guests.
Vince Gilligan, Peter Gould -- Peter Gould,
Bob Odenkirk, and Rhea Seehorn are here.
[Applause]
First of all, congratulations on the Emmy noms this season.
Very cool. Congratulations.
Rhea, is this your first nomination?
Um, it appears to be my first nomination, yes.
[Chuckles] - Well, congratulations.
Aww, thank you.
Thank you very much.
So, first of all, I was very relieved,
as were a lot of people, to see that Kim survived.
Like, she made it through the "Breaking Bad" era.
She's there.
@FearofLivingOn on Twitter says,
"Kim Wexler's still alive in 'Breaking Bad's' timeline.
Oh, my God. Thank you."
Uh, @PunisherBase on Twitter says,
"Literally yelled, 'She's alive,'
like Marty at the end of 'Back to the Future II.'"
Blair, uh, uh, on Twitter says,
"Kim Wexler hanging out with Karens
is the cruelest twist of the entire 'Breaking Bad' universe."
[Laughter]
And, "Rhea Seehorn in the house. Phenomenal actress.
Love that you are back in 'Better Call Saul.'"
What was your reaction
to Kim being very much alive in Florida?
Well, um, Peter had talked to me
about the fact that I would come back.
Because Peter and Vince have been very respectful of actors
whenever they're gone forever and letting them know,
so I knew I would come back in some capacity, and, um --
but I didn't know what capacity.
So when I got this script, written by Vince
and directed by Vince, uh, I was very surprised.
I knew that I had some wig fittings
[chuckles] and, um, um, I --
it was -- it was challenging,
but then it was so beautiful to understand
that she is a shell of a person and just kind of, like,
living this life that, for me, was the answer to her saying,
"I wanted more."
When she, way back when,
when she interviewed with Schweikart & --
uh, Schweikart & Cokely and said, "I just wanted more,"
and I think she thinks she flew too close to the sun,
and now she's tamping it all down.
It was sad. Sad. - But she was still Kim Wexler.
She didn't -- she had a new job and a new appearance,
but she still was Kim Wexler.
She was, but you shouldn't see that
till the birthday-party scene when she's singing.
So one of the challenges that Vince and I had was,
should you see those cracks in the armor prior to that?
And we talked about it and then we talked to Peter about it
as far as, like, how long has she been living this life?
And we truly believed
that she's gotten so used to the performance she's doing,
it is sincere.
When she's, like, "Let's sign the kitty-cat card,"
it's real for that moment
and then you shouldn't see the cracks until Jimmy calls her.
Yeah, and when Gene, Jimmy, Saul calls her,
uh, why is he so intense with her?
'Cause she won't give him anything.
He's -- he hasn't seen her in, I don't know how long,
what is it, a year and a half, or...?
Uh, I think it's been six years.
- Yeah. - Oh, six years.
Yeah. Yeah, it's been a while.
Okay, well, that makes sense.
And, uh... [Laughter]
I don't watch the show.
[Laughter] But six years.
But she won't give him anything.
And, you know, I mean, it's just a phone call.
Can't you say anything nice or anything at all?
- Yeah. - You should [no audio]
- He's a fugitive. - What do you mean?
- He's a fugitive. - He is a fugitive, too.
What was the last time we were together?
When you were signing -- signing the divorce papers.
- Oh, yeah. You know, come on. - Very dismissive.
- Jerk. - He was totally
compartmentalizing and putting on a show.
Uh, um, but, yeah, that's why.
Peter, what does Kim's ultimate confession
and visit to Cheryl symbolize?
I don't know that it symbolizes anything.
I think she's -- she's --
this has been a burden she's been carrying.
She -- I think if she had her own --
had her way, she would've confessed right away.
I think she would've left the apartment
and instead of, uh, going to Florida,
I think she would have gone to the police if she could have --
if she could have safely done that
and not involved Jimmy
and not involved Gus and Mike and -- and all that,
so I think she's -- she's living under a cloud
'cause she hasn't been able to tell the truth.
Yeah, but she calcul-- she --
she improvises this elegant lie to Cheryl...
- Yes. - ...at the serv--
at the, you know, the -- the gathering.
Uh, and it's so, like, col-- it's just --
it's so cold and so precise... - Yes.
...that it's like, oh, my God, she's, like, out-Jimmying Jimmy
in this moment.
But then, obviously, it all comes to a head,
and she has this breakdown on the bus.
What was that moment like for you and for her?
Um... yeah, that memorial scene
but also the scene where I go to her and confess,
you're right, those are, uh --
and Vince and I and -- and Peter, we --
like, we really thought about how to calibrate that,
because...
I think that Kim does not think she deserves to be the one
who needs to feel -- anyone needs to feel sorry for her
in that moment.
So I do think that she suppresses.
"I am here to do penance.
I'm here to allow the victims to actually be the victims."
And then, um, on the bus scene,
and we were on a real tram, right, Vince,
going around ABQ airport, and, uh...
- [Chuckles] - ...they --
Vince told me and Peter told me, it's, um,
this is not this episode's letting go,
this is six -- six seasons, seven years of her letting go
of, uh, what she's become, what she has done to herself.
And, um, I understood that, and it --
[taps chest] it hurt in my chest.
Mm, Vince, what do you remember about directing that scene?
I just remember I was nervous about it all day.
I didn't have any reason to be, because, you know, Rhea --
I knew she'd crush it.
But it was just, you know, we put four cameras,
uh, locked them down in the back of this bus.
It's a real bus.
If you go to Albuquerque now and, you know, rent a car there,
flying into the airport,
the odds of you riding this actual bus
are probably pretty good, and, uh --
So you say that. Now a bunch of "Breaking Bad" fans
and -- and "Better Call Saul" fans are gonna be, like,
"Why are our trams so full of people not flying anywhere?"
I figure it's good for the city.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.
- Tourism dollars, you know? - Yeah, yeah.
But it was, uh -- it was just --
and -- any my sweetie, Holly, is sitting next to Rhea.
- Yeah. - Yes!
Yep, Holly's in there.
And, uh, it was just fun.
We did two takes of it.
I felt guilty, Rhea, making you do a second take
'cause you were perfect on the first one,
but I'm just -- I'm -- you know, I'm neurotic.
I got to have more than one take.
But you just nailed it.
I think we did use the second take,
if that makes you feel better. - [Chuckles]
But, uh, it was -- it was just, uh --
she just crushed it, and it was --
you know, it was just perfect two times, and --
and it was a lot of fun, but I was anxious.
I think I was kind of anxious for Rhea leading up to it.
Uh, well, we're gonna take a quick break.
We have interviews with the cast and crew,
including ones with Giancarlo Esposito,
Tony Dalton, and Carol Burnett.
Uh, we'll be right back on "Talking Saul."
[Cheers and applause]
♪
Marion is the mother of the cab driver
who identified Gene as Saul,
and what happens is that she has really liked Gene a whole lot,
and she finds out that he is, indeed, Saul Goodman
and she's very upset and hurt and angry
and he is very upset
and he's also kind of threatening
and she pulls out her Life Alert
and she blows the whistle on him
and he splits.
It's really hard to be mad at each other,
so we really have to pull out our acting chops,
I have to say. [Chuckles]
I'm gonna miss a lot of the group.
There's a lot of love in this group,
and I know they've been together since "Breaking Bad,"
and this is a family, and you can feel it.
And, as I said, there's a lot of love.
[Cheers and applause] - Yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
Welcome back to "Talking Saul."
That was the legendary Carol Burnett join--
which, by the way, we're shooting in --
we're one floor above where they shot "The Carol Burnett Show."
- Yeah. - So great.
The talent entrance to the building is called
the Carol Burnett talent entrance,
so this is, uh, legendary for a legend.
Uh, @YaelML11 on Twitter says,
"Carol Burnett was not on my 'Better Call Saul' bingo card.
A total treat." - Ah.
Mr. Jim Messina says, "There's nothing more wholesome
than watching a legend, Carol Burnett,
enjoying a kitten riding a Roomba
and calling her a cutie patootie."
- [Laughs] - @oybay on Twitter says,
"Kudos to casting.
Carol Burnett is a national treasure."
Uh, and, uh, what was it like shooting the scene
where you kind of threatened a national treasure,
Carol Burnett, Bob Odenkirk?
Super fun.
[Laughter]
Oh, my God.
That was the greatest.
I loved her so much.
I mean, just as a person and her --
of course, her career and her show.
But working with her was a joy, and she -- she's just so present
and giving and sweet and, uh -- and a -- such a great actress.
I mean, if you see that last scene where Saul is,
you know, I don't know, gonna strangle her
or something and then she --
her -- her --
the sweetness of her face and her hurt
and her heart that hurts so much in that moment,
melts his steely anger,
and -- and he remembers that he's human again, briefly,
and can't do it, thank God.
I couldn't actually do it. - No, I'm glad, yeah.
I mean, which is to say,
obviously, I couldn't actually do it, but I couldn't --
I wouldn't like if you had written that Saul kills her.
- I was really -- - So close.
But he gets close, which is crazy.
But you know what's great about that?
It's the furthest length that he's gone.
- Mm-hmm. - It's great that he --
he really is doing this whole scam
just to burn up his life.
He's trying to destroy himself.
I'm glad you said that, because I was trying to figure out,
like, what is his angle at this point?
And also I -- from so many times throughout the season.
It's like the movie "Leaving Las Vegas."
Yeah, where he's just like, "I'm gonna go --"
"I'm gonna do these scams until you catch me
and I go down or something.
I'm just gonna burn this down,"
because he's not enjoying the Cinnabon job...
[Laughter]
...and he's not enjoying being hidden away.
And as hard as it is,
Rhea's talking about Kim struggling
and her six years of suffering, as this char--
this other version of herself in Florida,
well, it's even worse, I would say, for Jimmy
to -- to be utterly mute, as his effusive character is,
can't -- he can't handle it.
He's having, like, a heart attack
or something in that -- in the Cinnabon
when he has a brain -- - Yeah.
What does he have there, a stroke?
Well, just, like, a panic attack.
A panic attack that takes him down, sends him to the hospital.
'Cause there -- there are points throughout this
where you're like, "Okay, I feel like your character,
okay, maybe he's gonna have a redemption arc,"
and then you see, like Kim's character has a redemption arc
where she comes clean. - Mm-hmm.
And then, uh, you know, two things.
You almost killed that poor guy on the stairs
and then you approach Carol Burnett, and I'm like --
Yeah, but you wanted to see me kill him.
[Laughter] That's different.
No, I didn't want to see him kill anybody
because I feel like, you know,
by the end of the episode last night, I'm like,
"Oh, I don't know if that redemption arc is coming."
Like, so -- like, the idea of, like, what's going to happen
in the final episode where it ends
with you almost killing Carol Burnett?
Like, I-I can't imagine.
Like, is it possible for this character
to be redeemed at this point? - Well, he's --
I don't want to spoiler alert,
but he does try to jump Snake River Canyon.
[Laughter]
But, other than that, nothing to see.
Greer Jay on Facebook says,
"Vince, how did you get Carol Burnett on the show?"
Well, I tell you, that's a -- I'll try to make it quick.
This is a real Hollywood story, uh, the way we met,
but we've known each other now for six or seven years.
We met in the most Hollywood of ways.
We -- We both have a favorite limo driver.
[Laughter]
A guy named Jason, who is awesome.
And, you know, we'd get, uh, you know --
I don't travel this way every day, I promise,
but every now and then, if you get to go to the Emmys
or whatnot, if you're lucky enough to get to go,
the studio sends you, and Jason, our driver, would say, uh,
"Hey, uh, you know, my friend Carol's a real big fan of yours.
She loves 'Breaking -- 'Breaking Bad.'"
This was back in the "Breaking Bad" days.
And I said, "Great. Carol who?" "Who? Carol Burnett."
I was like, "What?"
And we -- - [Laughs]
He -- Jason was our, uh, intermediary.
We met-cute through -- through Jason, our driver.
And, uh, like, one day, we'd be --
Holly and I'd be in the car and we'd get a --
a box set of "The Carol Burnett Show," which...
- Oh, my God. - ...we've seen them all anyway,
but, like, it was a gift from her.
And then -- and then I got her a barrel set,
which I gave to her through Jason.
Finally, one day I get in the car and Jason says,
"Carol just says, you know -- uh, just --
let's cut out the middleman, and let's --
she suggests that you --
you guys all have, uh, dinner together."
- Oh, my gosh. - So that's -- that's how we met.
And then you -- now it's sort of become
like you send her a note, like,
"Carol Burnett, do you like me? Check 'yes' or 'no.'"
By the way, no one would judge you
if you rode limos all the time.
You've cre-- you've created and co-created
some of the best television shows on the planet.
[Cheers and applause] If you -- if you --
if I saw you --
Vince Gilligan, if I saw you, like,
riding a tiger on top of a limo that was also a jet,
I'd be like, "That totally is fine with me."
But you're you're the nicest in the world.
- Yeah, alright. - I wouldn't worry about it.
Bob, I want to talk about the scene where, uh, Gene --
where he trains Jeff how to rob the store.
Like, when we finally see
the present present in black and white.
Oh, you're talking about, like -- what episode is that?
- 611. - Episode 10.
Out in the snow. - In the snowy wonderland,
uh, running around? - Yes, yes.
Aw, that was so fun, man. It was so fun,
'cause he's torturing this guy.
"Go! Faster!"
And, uh -- and he's enjoying it.
And he's just -- this guy who's had
something over on him... - Yes.
...this guy who's gonna give him away and destroy everything,
and he's now got the -- he's got him under his thumb,
and he's gonna, you know, drive him crazy, try to.
And, uh, it was -- it was a lot of fun.
And shout-out to Pat Healy, who plays the character.
- Pat Healy plays it great. - Yeah.
- Yep. - And, uh, we -- we are friends.
We were on "The Post" together, the --
the movie "The Post"... - Oh, yeah.
...and got to know each other there.
And this was really fun to work with him again.
Um, I think another big question, Rhea, uh,
difference between Miracle Whip and mayonnaise?
It was a big debate in the -- in this last episode.
So, I'm here in New Hampshire with my family,
and I have Richmond and Baltimore family,
so -- and trust me -- [Laughter]
This just happens to be in the house,
I can see because it's half-empty.
[Laughter] - Yeah. Duke's Mayonnaise.
Exactly.
They wanted me to show you that.
Um, I think Miracle Whip is too sweet.
I don't do Miracle Whip.
Um, but Vince and I had a good discussion on that day of, like,
"Would you think this would work in a -- in a recipe?"
And the fact is, it is sweet.
If you had a recipe that wanted mayonnaise
and you had relatives in Virginia or Maryland
that wanted Duke's, it would actually be a -- a conundrum.
You'd have to give some thought to it.
And you -- you know how dumb we are, by the way?
We didn't get paid for any of this product placement.
Oh, come on. [Laughter]
- It's like... - [Chuckles]
I'm -- I'm watching the show, going,
"Duke's mayonnaise must be the -- like, Cinnabon must've
backed a truck of money up to," you know.
- Oddly, no. - No, no.
Works great. Uh --
Wait, Vince, Vince, do you wish we got free mayonnaise?
[Laughter]
You're gonna get it now. You're gonna get it,
and Carol Burnett's gonna send it to you
is how it's gonna work out. - My heart's desire, yeah.
When we come back, we have more interviews with the cast,
including ones with Giancarlo Esposito and Tony Dalton.
We'll be right back on "Talking Saul."
[Cheers and applause]
♪
Walt and Jesse were certainly at the center of "Breaking Bad,"
and Bryan and Aaron are just two people
that are exceptionally special human beings
and have always been generous
about being willing to step back into our world,
which is an unbelievable privilege
to have those actors willing to do that.
For Vince and Peter, the, you know, big question was,
when and how do you use them?
And I think restraint was very much, like, a --
you know, an element in that,
because if you go too far too fast,
then you're -- you're shifting the focus in a way
that really doesn't service the story
that we've been telling with, uh, "Better Call Saul."
Seeing Walt and Jesse does give you context
for Jimmy's arc into Saul.
Like, you're reminded of who Saul was
and you're reminded of how far we've come in the story,
and I think that's really important.
Walt and Jesse becomes a measuring stick of sorts
in terms of the growth or lack thereof.
Having Bryan and Aaron on set, it was definitely,
again, a marker of, like,
"Oh, it really is the end. The show is going to finish."
It was a sign of that.
Having those guys around is just a celebration.
Like, they're just so joyful,
and having them on set was just fun.
♪
[Cheers and applause]
Welcome back to "Talking Saul."
That was executive producer Melissa Bernstein on welcoming
Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul back to set
to reprise their roles of Walt and Jesse.
We're back with Vince, Peter, Bob, and Rhea.
The Walt and Jesse Reactions --
@Track8LFC on Twitter says, "I literally got goose bumps
seeing Jesse and Walt on 'Better Call Saul.'
Adamo Giancola says,
"Walt and Jesse's return was absolutely glorious."
And so I guess, you know, it's interesting to see,
as we revisit this, Saul's first scene
in "Breaking Bad" with, uh, Bryan and Aaron.
Now that we have all this other information,
it just gives it a lot more weight.
Yeah, I mean, it was amazing to be
in that Winnebago with them, and, uh...
it was just fun to -- to do that, and --
but, uh, I coul-- I couldn't believe they were there
and we were doing it.
It was something. - It's interesting.
Peter, is, like, bringing back Walt and Jesse now --
it almost kind of feels like we're able
to kind of, um, retcon a little bit, and it's like,
there's more of Saul in the picture than you realize...
- Yeah. - ...with "Breaking Bad."
He might've been a little more, uh,
kind of commanding this, uh, scenario
than we originally realized. - Yeah, we're see--
you know, we're seeing the show from
a whole different point of view.
Shooting that, by the way,
was so weird coming back all these years later.
And there was a sandstorm when we shot the first --
the first version of it on "Breaking Bad,"
and then no sandstorm on the second version.
Yeah but you couldn't see the damn sand.
Yeah, but it was going right up your nose.
I remember that. - Yeah, we were suffering it...
- Yes. - ...but then I can't wait
to watch it on screen and have the audience go,
"These guys are such heroes." - Yes. Yes.
"They survived the sand." And they can't see the sand.
You can't see the sand. You can't see the sand.
You got to put the sand on the screen.
And it was cold, too.
Anyway, but having said all that,
you know, it's just -- it was --
we thought it would be really fascinating
to see the story of "Breaking Bad"
from this other point of view, to see that maybe --
maybe "Breaking Bad" in some ways was Walt and Jesse's story,
but this is Saul, or Jimmy's, story,
and now we see -- see what they meant to him,
and -- and, yeah, it's -- you know, you got to wonder, uh,
if Walt and Jesse hadn't --
if Walt hadn't walked into that office, uh,
the story of "Breaking Bad" would be,
I think, pretty different. - Yeah.
- Well, also -- - I think that -- that --
I'm sorry. I just -- that moment where he realizes
they cooked the blue stuff. - Yes.
And that's his -- that's what he's been waiting for.
He's been waiting for somebody like that to walk into his life.
And that's why he suspected that could happen,
and here they are. It's amazing.
So he learned nothing from dealing with Lalo.
Nothing at all. [Laughter]
Uh, no, he did.
I think that he sees Walt as, like,
this guy will -- is not an off-the-rails guy.
- Yes. - This guy has a life.
He has a wife and kids, and he's a teacher, right?
And so this is the -- the difference is, like,
"What if I could get a mastermind criminal
who's not out of his mind?" [Laughter]
"Well, I think I got him standing in front of me."
"I'm gonna try this terrible thing again,
except this time I'm gonna get it right."
- Yeah, sure. - Okay, there we go.
And he almost does.
Uh, Rhea, you know, uh,
one of the big questions for Kim was, like,
you know, seeing Kim throughout this whole series
in the back of your head going,
"She's not in 'Breaking Bad,' so is she okay?"
And then seeing that scene with Kim and Jesse,
can you talk about -- about that connection?
Yeah, well, so it was --
so I've met, um, Aaron and, uh, Bryan
because they come to our premieres all the time,
and they are as lovely
as you would want your hero actors to be.
They are wonderful, wonderful people
and thrilled to come back and help us tell our story.
They watch "Better Call Saul," and, um, Aaron was lovely.
I was a little nervous to work with him, um,
because I'm a big fan,
and he's a big fan of Kim Wexler.
and so he was -- he was so sweet to me.
And then we really enjoyed the fact that that scene
that he and I have where I'm smoking out there is that --
my character is at the end of the arc
of realizing what going down a rabbit hole
can do to your conscience and her erosion of her conscience.
She's gone all the way through. He's beginning it.
This is even pre-"Breaking Bad,"
so we really loved that idea of, like,
if -- if they could tell each other what they've lear--
if she could tell him what she's learned,
would he -- would he change what he's doing?
I don't know. And instead, it's --
it's just these two people,
like, missing each other in the moment.
And -- And she's also coming from what she had inside
and signing divorce papers and that terrible scene
that killed me with Saul and him wanting to know,
like, is he a good lawyer?
And I loved that moment of her
just answering that, "He was when I knew him."
Vince and Peter, what did it mean that Mike goes
and has a conversation with, uh, Nacho's dad
and says, "Here's what happened."
- Boy. - Yeah, you should take that one.
Oh, I'll just -- I think Mike identifies with Nacho's dad.
Mike lost a son,
uh, Nacho's dad lost a son,
and Mike thinks, uh, that they're alike in some way.
And he goes and has this, uh, heartrending scene,
and he finds out, no, they don't.
He said he thinks that maybe telling the dad that, uh --
that there was revenge,
that revenge is coming is gonna make --
is somehow gonna make Dad feel not better,
not gonna heal him, but is gonna keep that rage, uh,
keep -- keep that rage and, uh -- and help him to go on,
and, in fact, boy, you know, I think -- I think Nacho's dad
puts Mike in his place. - He does.
- He really does. - Puts him --
puts him on his back --
back on his heels, doesn't he?
He just, uh -- you know, you don't --
Mike is always the guy that gets the last word,
he's the guy in control,
and this guy makes him look kind of sad and small,
diminishes them. - Yeah.
Yeah, you don't see that everyday.
Especia-- yeah, because he's basically saying
it's like it's never gonna end for you.
- Yes. - There's no end.
There's no amount of revenge.
It's always revenge upon revenge
upon revenge upon revenge. - That's right.
Yeah, and it's pointless.
- Yeah. - Yeah, yeah.
Well, uh, before we go to break, I want to remind you
to make sure to tune in for the series finale
of "Better Call Saul" next Monday, August 15th,
on AMC and AMC+.
Coming up, we have more interviews,
including Giancarlo Esposito and Tony Dalton.
We'll be right back.
Yeah.
[Cheers and applause]
♪
It's great to be part of this whole universe
and to have people really sort of embrace the character
and like him.
He's such a complex character
because he has sort of this charisma and this charm,
yet he's a ruthless killer, which makes it even scarier.
It was a fun character to play. I'm sad to say goodbye to him.
I'm gonna miss everybody here.
It was a great crew and --
and it was a wonderful part to play.
And it really was an honor.
I mean, everybody here was just so great.
I mean, my alarm clock in the morning, it would ring,
I'd get a smile on my face
because I'd come and work with all these guys.
Every day was great, and I'm gonna miss that.
[Cheers and applause]
Welcome back to "Talking Saul."
That was Tony Dalton on what it means to him
to have been a part of "Better Call Saul."
Uh, we're here with Vince, Peter, Bob and Rhea.
Um, Vince and Peter, how would you describe
Lalo's impact on the "Breaking Bad" universe?
I think Peter should -- should take the second half.
The first half is there wouldn't have been a Lalo
if it had been up to me.
That's how dumb I am.
I was -- I got really lazy.
There was -- you know, Lalo was mentioned
in, uh -- in -- in the very first episode --
it's a throwaway line --
the very first episode of "Breaking Bad" that --
that, uh -- that, uh, Saul appears in.
He says, "Lalo, La--"
It was a throwaway.
And -- And Peter kept saying,
"We got to pay this off. Who is Lalo?
Who's this guy, Lalo, that, uh --
that, uh, Saul's so scared of?"
And I said, "Ah, for God's sake,
you don't have to dot every 'I' here."
[Laughter] And -- And Peter kept on.
He said -- and the writers and everyone was --
like, looked at me like I'm, like,
the feeble uncle who they're just, like,
you know, just kind of, you know, uh, humoring here,
and they were so right to keep pushing
because we wouldn't have had Tony Dalton,
and it would have been --
the whole universe would've been poorer for it.
So, Peter, what -- what does, uh --
uh, you -- my hat is off to you, my friend.
Well, thank you. My hat's right back off, uh --
off to you also.
My whole -- my -- my hair, too.
Uh, it's, uh -- yeah.
Look, Tony is -- is just so special,
and the character, uh, we just thought it was --
it was time to introduce, uh, a different kind of Salamanca.
Uh, we thought it would be really interesting
to see a killer who enjoys life,
who isn't so grim, who kind of has a-a spring in his step,
and, boy, Tony brought it, and he's -- he's got charm,
and he's got a -- he's a joyf-- he's probably one of the --
maybe the happiest character on the show.
[Laughter] And, uh --
- Yeah, yeah. - You know? How crazy is that?
He's literally the happiest character on the show.
You know, you meet him, and he's cooking away and singing,
and he's just -- he's -- he's delighted with life.
And then he'll kill you if you get in his way.
- Yeah. - So I think it was just
a really spe-- it was, you know, with all these actors,
it's a -- it's a special alchemy of, uh, the role and the actor
and, uh, the great fun of getting to do what we do
is that we get to write for these actors
and to pick up on all the things that they do.
And so Tony became kind of the swashbuckling,
charming James Bond cartel capo.
I mean, it was -- it was a -- it --
it was a flawless performance, too,
because he did not -- he didn't play like the villain,
you know, like, he was -- - Yeah, yeah.
He went into that mode when he was in that mode,
and then all smiles the rest of the time.
But, again, it's sort of a testament to the --
and I think we talked about this when we were doing
"Talking Bad" all those years ago
is that one of my favorite things about what y'all create
is just something that seems like a throwaway,
just a very small detail,
then maybe seasons later becomes an entire story line,
uh, and it's that kind of like respect to detail
for your audience that we get to enjoy that,
we get to watch this payoff,
you know, that it wasn't just a throwaway.
It actually had depth and --
and meaning to it. - Yeah.
We have to take a quick break, uh, but before we do,
I'm excited to announce that you can have the opportunity
to take home an actual piece of "Better Call Saul."
Sony Pictures is partnering with the Prop --
with Propstore, which is a great auction house.
My wife and I have bought a ton of film and television
and movie props from there.
250 props and costumes from all six seasons
of "Better Call Saul."
Go to PropStore/BetterCallSaul.
Uh, you can register and see a preview
of what'll be available.
Um, we have a handful of items that are around the set
that will be available as part of the auction, as well,
including, uh, Hector Salamanca's bell,
which would be amazing. - Oh.
Um, we have, uh, a tequila bottle stopper.
We have Jimmy's "2nd Best Lawyer" mug.
There's a ton of stuff. So bidding starts August 18th.
A portion of the proceeds will be donated
to local Albuquerque charities.
Make sure you check it out for your chance to take home
a piece of pop-culture history.
Coming up, more interviews with the cast and producers,
but, first, here's Jonathan Banks
on what portraying Mike Ehrmantraut
has meant to him.
Check it out.
Mike Ehrmantraut's a pretty great character.
I like Mike a lot.
What are my feelings as this comes to an end?
I don't think I'll know what my emotions are
until a month, a year after.
Right now, I'm ready to go home,
ready to put it to bed with a lot of gratitude.
Oh, my God. A lot of gratitude.
And that will choke me up.
You hear guys saying, "I'm the luckiest guy in the world."
I would like to remind you that's sincere,
not on just my part,
but a lot of the people who are saying it
to the point you can't take it in,
it's so lucky.
[Clicks tongue]
♪
It's an emotional moment for me inside to let a character go,
and, in this case, been so blessed
to have him come back in a different incarnation slightly,
so it gives me something else to play.
I was talking to Tony Dalton, and we were talking about
how blessed we are to have been in a situation
with such great creators.
For an actor, it's all about the writing
and where the character goes
and how it is very meticulously put together.
And then the other part of letting go of this
is the family of filmmakers.
There's no actor on this show
who I have not enjoyed working with.
It's a difficult one to let go of
because the longer you're in the business,
whether you're actor, director, stuntperson,
when you have an experience that is somehow so very special
and it's indescribable in words you mark it, you feel it.
It's an energetic feeling that you never want to forget.
[Cheers and applause]
Welcome back to "Talking Saul."
That was Giancarlo Esposito.
And also, uh, huge hand for Giancarlo Esposito, please.
[Cheers and applause]
Just amazing.
Uh, and now it is my pleasure to introduce,
uh, our featured fan.
Please welcome Raghava from Bordeaux, France.
Hi, Raghava. How are you?
Hi. I'm doing great.
Uh, thanks so much for having me,
uh, and I have a question, and the question is for Rhea.
Uh, are there any plans to exhibit the amazing artwork
you -- you've made for the show?
Okay, Raghava, let's talk about the artwork behind you.
Is this your artwork?
Yeah, these are mine. [Laughter]
- That's incredible. - So, uh, the --
Okay, I think we need to plan your exhibition, not mine.
[Laughter]
Thank you, thank you.
Did you -- did you do artwork for the show, Rhea?
Yes. Kim's bedroom
has, uh, bird paintings above the bed in the condo
that are my actual paintings.
They are -- they are two paintings collaged together.
And, let's see, the bedroom --
sorry, the bathroom has one of sheets,
and the living room has two,
an owl and a woman lying on her back with her legs crossed,
and if you're looking at the condo, at the couch,
the left wall, uh, bookcase, that painting,
uh, how she's laying, I duplicated --
no one will know this, but I duplicated --
now you will -- um, when -- uh, the episode that, um,
I was allowed to direct and had a glorious time doing, 604,
when Jimmy is describing pulling the sign out of the cement,
uh, I duplicated the posture.
If anyone ever saw it,
it's Kim laying in the exact same position
as the drawing that I did on the other side of the wall.
- Oh, my God, that's fantastic. - Nice.
That is a hell of an Easter egg.
Uh, Raghava, I want to thank you so much for your question.
As you can see in the background,
these incredible portraits is made from the cast and creators,
and he actually had sent some of his artwork.
They were -- we were gonna have it here
so it could be given as gifts to you all,
uh, but it got stuck in customs.
Uh, so, but we will get it, and we will get them to you.
We will make sure that those portraits arrive.
Your artwork is stunning.
Thank you so much for your question,
and thank you for being a fan.
- Thank you. Thank you. - It's a pleasure to talk to you.
[Applause] Um...
Uh, @longlivecinema on Instagram says,
"Bob, what do you think is the most dangerous trait
of Saul Goodman?"
Uh, his, uh, excitement and interest in being --
you know, he gets too carried away
with, uh, his plots and plans, and that's the problem.
He, uh -- he just --
[Sighs]
He's a -- he's a good guy deep down,
but he's so happy to have plans and to make them complicated.
This is the -- uh, th-this --
um, the great shopping crime in the mall,
you know, it reminds me of Tom Sawyer.
I mean, I don't know if you guys ever intended for that,
but Saul's complicated plans,
which seem sometimes too unnecessarily complicated,
reminds me of Tom Sawyer, and, like,
"Huck Finn, you're gonna be an old widow,
and I'm gonna be a little girl.
I'm going through the window."
Why don't you just open the window and go?
You don't have to put on a dress.
[Laughter] Uh, but it --
but it's just his excitement.
His exuberance gets him into trouble
and creates -- makes things worse
because he takes it too far.
And he just can't get out of his own way.
Uh, we have to take a quick break.
When we come back, more interviews
with the cast and producers.
We'll be right back with more "Talking Saul."
[Cheers and applause]
♪
Welcome back to "Talking Saul."
I'm back with Vince, Peter, Bob, and Rhea.
Alright, so we have 3 minutes and 40 seconds, uh,
before this is done, and then there's another episode left.
So I want to try to encapsulate as best we can.
It's gonna be a tall order.
How should fans prepare themselves
for the final episode next week?
Buy -- stock up in Depends.
"Stock up on Depends."
[Laughter] - It's a big one.
And I can say how great it is
'cause I didn't write it, and I didn't direct.
Is Depends paying you? You name-check a lot of brands
that aren't giving you anything. - And I never get paid
for any of them. - No.
We are not getting enough free mayonnaise or diapers.
Guess not.
Now it's people riding the tram at the Albuquerque airport,
eating mayonnaise, crying, and then crapping their pants
at the same time. - Yes.
Uh, Rhea, how would you describe the series finale
in three words?
Can you even do that?
You can't leave that to me.
Um, uh, bleh.
A-As always, we can't spoil anything.
I-I -- I think it is one of the most --
and I've watched many of my favorite series end,
and it's such a hard, hard job to do.
Uh, my hat off.
I have multiple hats I'm taking off right now to Peter, and --
but just wrapping this whole thing up,
it's so thoughtful, it's so respectful
of the intelligence level of our fans,
and the, um, heart level of our fans.
Like, it tu-- it tugged at my heart.
I'm still thinking about the ending.
I can't wrap it up in three words.
My apologies. - That's fine.
Bob, rather than asking the three-word question,
someone asked a social-media question.
Uh... - Oh. I want to answer that.
You do you want to answer it? Okay, go ahead.
- Hard-won truth. - Do it. You do it.
- "Hard-won truth." - Oh.
- "Hard-won truth." - You so prepared that.
[Laughter] - I-I-I literally prepared that
while you were fumfering around for your three words.
[Laughter] - Fumfering?
What century is this?
- Thank you for fumfering. - Someone asked on social media,
do you see Saul as a tragic character?
Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah, because he knows --
he's got a good sense of what's right,
and he can't help himself. - Yeah.
- And that's tragic. - Yeah.
I also feel like he -- the worst thing is
he can't let go of things.
You got to be able to let go of things,
and that's his biggest flaw, I'd say.
Um, how are you feeling, the finale being a week away,
this journey that started so many years ago?
- Can't believe it. - Yeah.
I can't believe we're -- I can't believe we're almost --
we're almost done. - Yeah.
I-I-I'm super proud of the -- the --
I hope people find somebody who --
who will let you hang on to them and grab them,
and that's -- that's how you should watch.
That's how you should watch the finale.
Yeah, I'm -- I'm excited for people to see it,
but I'm -- I -- I can't believe it's almost over.
- No, 15 years. - Well, I-I just --
I always gush about how much I respect you for what you've done
and for what you've built and how you, you know --
and, Bob, for what you've done to take this character
from the other show and then spin him off
into this whole other character with depth
to see the other side of the wall from the other show.
It was easy as pie.
[Laughter]
And watching all of you do amazing work
and your careers blossom, it's just --
I'm a fan of you both professionally and personally,
and I want to thank you so much
for making this incredible show. - Thanks.
Next week, it's the series finale of "Better Call Saul."
My guests have been Vince Gilligan,
Peter Gould, Bob Odenkirk, and the wonderful Rhea Seehorn.
Uh, I hope you win all the Emmys,
and I want to say congratulations
to everyone else, the rest of the incredible cast and crew
on this amazing journey.
You should also be so proud.
Also, "Better Call Saul" fans,
thank you for showing up and enjoying the ride.
I can't wait to see how this wraps up.
Catch the series finale next Monday, August 15th,
on AMC and AMC+. Stay safe.
Take care of each other. I'm Chris Hardwick.
I'll see you in the fall for "Walking" and "Talking Dead."
Bye-bye.
[Cheers and applause]