♪ ♪
>> John: HI THERE!
♪ ♪
>> John: HI THERE!
WELCOME TO THE SHOW, STILL
TAKING PLACE IN THIS BLANK VOID,
WHICH I'VE NOW BEEN IN SO LONG
I'M ABOUT TO HAVE TO GET IT
WAXED AND BLEACHED AGAIN.
IT'S BEEN A BUSY WEEK, FROM A
CYBERATTACK FORCING THE SHUTDOWN
OF A TOP U.S. PIPELINE TO
VACCINATIONS CONTINUING TO ROLL
OUT, WITH CITIES AND STATES
INCENTIVIZING PEOPLE TO GET
THEM.
OHIO, FOR INSTANCE, IS OFFERING
A PRIZE OF UP TO $1 MILLION FOR
GETTING THE VACCINE, WHILE
NEW YORK CITY IS OFFERING FREE
SHAKE SHACK, WHICH OUR MAYOR
BILL de BLASIO TRIED TO SELL IN
THE LEAST APPETIZING WAY
IMAGINABLE.
>> JUST THINK OF THIS WHEN YOU
THINK OF VACCINATION...
MMM, VACCINATION...
MMM...
I'M GETTING A VERY GOOD
FEELING...
ABOUT VACCINATION RIGHT THIS
MOMENT.
>> John: NOPE.
THAT'S A NO, BILL.
NO TO EVERYTHING THERE.
NO TO THE UNCOMFORTABLY LOUD
CHEWING.
AND DEFINITELY NO TO THE "MMM."
YOU SOUND LIKE A SEXUALLY
FRUSTRATED COW TRYING AND
FAILING TO CLIMAX.
AND LOOK, I'D LOVE TO TALK FOR
THE REST OF THE SHOW ABOUT HOW
TERRIBLE IT IS TO WATCH
BILL de BLASIO EAT A BURGER.
BUT THE THING IS, I CAN'T.
INSTEAD -- IF I MAY QUOTE THE
RISKIEST THING YOU COULD
POSSIBLY SAY ON A FIRST DATE --
"LET'S TALK ABOUT ISRAEL."
BECAUSE THE BIGGEST NEWS OF THE
WEEK HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN THIS.
>> THIS MORNING, THE WORST
VIOLENCE IN YEARS BETWEEN
ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS IS
INTENSIFYING.
ISRAEL'S MILITARY ATTACKED NEW
TARGETS IN GAZA, THE PALESTINIAN
TERRITORY WHERE MILITANTS ARE
FIRING HUNDREDS OF ROCKETS INTO
ISRAEL.
AND IN THE ISRAELI-OCCUPIED
WEST BANK, PALESTINIAN
PROTESTERS FOUGHT WITH POLICE.
>> SINCE MONDAY, OVER 80
PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED
AND 7 ISRAELIS IN THIS
TIT-FOR-TAT WAR.
>> John: OKAY, THERE IS A LOT TO
UNPACK THERE, FROM THE HORROR OF
THE SITUATION -- WHICH HAS
ESCALATED SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE
THEN -- TO THE USE OF THE PHRASE
"TIT-FOR-TAT WAR" IN A CONFLICT
WHERE YOU JUST POINTED OUT ONE
SIDE HAS SUFFERED OVER TEN TIMES
THE CASUALTIES, SOMETHING WHICH
IMBALANCE AT PLAY HERE AND HOW
THAT OFTEN GETS OBSCURED BY HOW
WE CHOOSE TO TALK ABOUT IT.
AND LOOK, IF YOU'RE NOT FLUENT
IN MIDDLE EAST HISTORY, I KNOW
THIS CAN SEEM OVERWHELMING --
THE LATEST CHAPTER IN A LONG
STORY YOU HAVEN'T READ.
SO I'M NOT GOING TO TRY AND
RECAP THE HISTORY HERE, OR
INDEED, PROPOSE A SOLUTION --
ALTHOUGH, INTERESTINGLY, I DO
HAVE ONE.
BECAUSE SOMEONE WITH THIS ACCENT
ALWAYS THINKS THEY CAN FIX
THINGS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
I REDREW THE MAP A BIT, AND I
HAVE A LOT OF MISPLACED
CONFIDENCE THAT IT WOULD WORK
VERY WELL.
BUT THIS WEEK'S ACTUALLY BEEN A
PRETTY GOOD REMINDER THAT WHILE
SOME THINGS ARE INCREDIBLY
COMPLEX AND REQUIRE A GREAT DEAL
OF CONTEXT, OTHERS ARE JUST
WRONG.
TAKE, FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE
INCIDENTS THAT'S BEEN A
FLASHPOINT --
THE PLANNED EXPULSION OF
PALESTINIANS WHO'VE LIVED IN THE
SHEIKH JARRAH NEIGHBORHOOD FOR
GENERATIONS.
IT'S CURRENTLY TIED UP IN THE
ISRAELI COURT SYSTEM WITH THE
FOREIGN MINISTRY CALLING IT A
"REAL ESTATE DISPUTE."
BUT IT'S WORTH KNOWING THAT THE
U.N.'S COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN
RIGHTS HAS SAID THESE EXPULSIONS
WOULD VIOLATE ISRAEL'S
OBLIGATIONS UNDER INTERNATIONAL
LAW.
SO IT IS NOT HARD TO SEE WHY
SANITIZED TERMS LIKE "EVICTIONS"
OR "PROPERTY DISPUTES" RANKLE
THOSE WHO LIVE THERE.
>> YOU GREW UP IN THE
NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOUR FAMILY HOME IS SLATED FOR
EVICTION.
WHAT IS THE SCENE RIGHT NOW?
>> WELL, I -- THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR HAVING ME.
TO START, IT'S NOT REALLY AN
EVICTION.
IT'S FORCED ETHNIC DISPLACEMENT,
TO BE ACCURATE.
EVICTION DOES NOT IMPLY THE
HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF HEAVILY
ARMED POLICE AND ARMY AND
SETTLERS COLLUDING, BLOWING UP
YOUR DOORS, THROWING YOUR
CHILDREN FROM YOUR WINDOWS AND
USING BRUTE FORCE TO THROW YOU
OUT IN THE STREET AND ASSAULTING
AND ARRESTING YOU SHOULD YOU
RESIST.
IT DOESN'T IMPLY THE GRENADES.
IT DOESN'T IMPLY THE
RUBBER-COATED BULLETS.
>> John: RIGHT.
THE THREAT OF EVICTION IS
ACCURATE ONLY IN A VERY
SUPERFICIAL LEVEL -- IN THAT ONE
DAY YOU LIVE SOMEWHERE, THE NEXT
DAY YOU DON'T, AND THAT CHANGE
WASN'T YOUR CHOICE, BUT IT
DOESN'T TELL THE WHOLE STORY.
IT'S LIKE RUNNING A HEADLINE
THAT SAYS "MATT GAETZ REACHES
OUT TO FLORIDA YOUTH."
SURE, NOT INACCURATE.
BUT IT'S MISSING SOME PRETTY
CRUCIAL DETAILS ABOUT THE EXACT
NATURE OF THAT INTERACTION.
AND LOOK, IT IS TRUE THAT
MILITANTS FROM PALESTINIAN
GROUPS LIKE HAMAS FIRED OVER A
THOUSAND ROCKETS TOWARD ISRAEL
THIS WEEK, AND THAT IS
REPREHENSIBLE.
BUT -- AND I REALIZE THIS IS THE
MOST LOAD-BEARING CONJUNCTION IN
HISTORY, "BUT" -- THE MAJORITY
OF THOSE ROCKETS THANKFULLY
DIDN'T REACH THEIR TARGET, FOR A
VERY CLEAR REASON.
>> THE CASUALTIES AND THE DAMAGE
WOULD HAVE BEEN GREATER BUT FOR
ISRAELI INTERCEPTOR ROCKETS, THE
SO-CALLED IRON DOME, WHICH BLEW
MOST OF THE INCOMING MISSILES TO
PIECES.
>> John: YEAH, ISRAEL HAS AN
SO-CALLED IRON DOME.
AND I KNOW "WHAT IF WE BLEW UP
THE ROCKETS WITH MORE ROCKETS?"
SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING SOMEONE
DRUNKENLY WROTE DOWN ON A NAPKIN
ONCE, BUT IT IS A REAL MILITARY
DEFENSE SYSTEM THAT WORKS.
AND I ALSO KNOW NOT ALL THE
ROCKETS WERE SHOT DOWN.
ISRAELI CIVILIANS WERE KILLED
THIS WEEK, WHICH IS TERRIBLE.
BUT THE POINT IS, THIS ISN'T
"TIT FOR TAT."
THERE IS A MASSIVE IMBALANCE
WHEN IT COMES TO THE TWO SIDES'
WEAPONRY AND CAPABILITIES.
WHILE MOST OF THE ROCKETS AIMED
TOWARD ISRAELI CITIZENS THIS
WEEK WERE INTERCEPTED, ISRAEL'S
AIR STRIKES WERE NOT.
THEY HIT THEIR TARGETS,
INCLUDING A HOUSE IN A REFUGEE
CAMP, A BUILDING HOUSING THE
ASSOCIATED PRESS AND AL JAZEERA,
AND THIS 13-STORY OFFICE AND
APARTMENT BUILDING.
AND WHILE ISRAEL INSISTED THAT
THERE WERE MILITARY TARGETS IN
THAT BUILDING AND THAT THEY'D
DESTROYED IT AS HUMANELY AS
POSSIBLE, EVEN WARNING PEOPLE TO
EVACUATE BEFOREHAND, FOR THE
RECORD, "DESTROYING A CIVILIAN
RESIDENCE" SURE SEEMS LIKE A WAR
CRIME REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU
SEND A COURTESY HEADS-UP TEXT.
AND WHEN DOZENS OF PEOPLE HAVE
SEEN THEIR HOMES OR LIVELIHOODS
DESTROYED, IT DOESN'T REALLY
HELP THAT THE ISRAELI MILITARY
POSTED THIS TRIUMPHANT MEME
SHOWING THE EXPLOSION AND THE
RUBBLE LABELED "BEFORE" AND
"AFTER."
"LOOK WHAT WE DID!
PEOPLE LIVED THERE BEFORE, AND
NOW THEY CAN'T!
YOU GET IT, RIGHT?"
AND OBVIOUSLY, IN GENERAL, YOU
SHOULD PROBABLY NEVER MEME
A WAR CRIME.
BUT IF YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO,
AT LEAST GO WITH SOMETHING LESS
BORING THAN THE BEFORE/AFTER
TEMPLATE.
MAYBE USE THE DRAKE MEME OR THE
DISASTER GIRL.
THERE'S A BUILDING COMING DOWN,
SO CHECKMARK ALREADY THERE, AND
IT'S A LITTLE GIRL WITH EYES
THAT SCREAM "I DON'T KNOW WHAT
THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS ARE, AND
FRANKLY, I DON'T CARE."
THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT, IT
WORKS PERFECTLY.
THE FACT IS, THE CITIZENS OF
GAZA DON'T HAVE AN IRON DOME TO
PROTECT THEM THE WAY THAT THE
CITIZENS OF ISRAEL DO.
IT'S ONE OF THE MANY WAYS
THEY'RE AT A SIGNIFICANT
DISADVANTAGE.
ALTHOUGH AN ISRAELI MILITARY
SPOKESPERSON TRIED TO PUSH BACK
ON THE IDEA THERE'S MUCH OF A
DISCREPANCY THERE.
>> SOMEBODY ON TWITTER SAID THAT
THE PALESTINIANS DON'T HAVE AN
IRON DOME.
I SAY YES, THEY HAVE AN IRON
DOME.
IT'S CALLED "DON'T FIRE ROCKETS
AT ISRAELI CIVILIANS AND WE
WON'T FIRE ANYTHING AT GAZA."
>> John: YEAH.
BUT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF
DIFFERENCES.
"IRON DOME," FOR ONE, SOUNDS
MUCH COOLER, AND ALSO, IT HAS
THE SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGE OF
BEING AN ACTUAL DEFENSE SYSTEM
THAT EXISTS, UNLIKE GAZA'S,
WHICH IS MOSTLY, "TRY NOT TO BE
WHERE THE BOMBS ARE LANDING."
AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE HERE,
THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE
PALESTINIANS IN GAZA ARE NOT
PART OF HAMAS.
THEY DON'T GET TOGETHER AND ALL
DECIDE TO LAUNCH ROCKETS.
IT'S NOT A FUCKING CO-OP BOARD.
BUT WHEN ISRAEL FIRES ROCKETS AT
GAZA, IT ENDANGERS ALL
PALESTINIANS THERE.
MAYBE "SOMEBODY ON TWITTER"
COULD POINT THAT OUT TO THAT
GUY.
TO PEOPLE IN GAZA, IT CAN SEEM
LIKE THE ONLY TIME ANYONE PAYS
ATTENTION TO WHAT'S HAPPENING
THERE IS WHEN HAMAS IS FIRING
ROCKETS, WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLY
VERY FRUSTRATING, BECAUSE
THEY'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER A
SUFFOCATING BLOCKADE FOR
14 YEARS.
AND IN ISRAEL AND THE OCCUPIED
PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES,
PALESTINIANS ARE ESSENTIALLY
BEING GOVERNED BY A FORM OF
APARTHEID, AN ASSESSMENT SIGNED
OFF ON BY BOTH INTERNATIONAL AND
ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS GROUPS.
LIFE IN GAZA IS HARD EVEN WHEN
THEY'RE NOT BEING BOMBED.
AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS
IMPLICITLY COSIGNED ON THE
BRUTALLY HARD LINE ISRAEL HAS
BEEN TAKING.
THIS GUY BASICALLY GAVE ISRAEL A
GREEN LIGHT TO DO ANYTHING IT
WANTED FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS,
AND WHILE BIDEN HAS HAD THE
OPPORTUNITY TO RESET THAT
RELATIONSHIP, HIS
ADMINISTRATION'S RESPONSE THIS
WEEK HAS BEEN DEEPLY
UNDERWHELMING, GIVING A GENERIC
STATEMENT THAT "ISRAEL HAS A
RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF."
IT'S THE EXACT SAME LINE THAT
OBAMA SAID AND THAT BUSH SAID
BEFORE HIM.
"ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND
ITSELF" IS JUST SOMETHING ALL
PRESIDENTS END UP SAYING OUT
LOUD AT SOME POINT IN OFFICE,
LIKE "MY FELLOW AMERICANS" OR
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE ARE NO
ALIENS?
THIS IS SOME BULLSHIT."
AND LOOK, IT'S NOT THAT ISRAEL
DOESN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND
ITSELF -- IT'S JUST THAT LINE
CANNOT BE USED TO EXCUSE
ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING.
MULTIPLE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN
KILLED THIS WEEK -- EIGHT IN A
SINGLE STRIKE JUST YESTERDAY.
AND THE U.S. IS HEAVILY
IMPLICATED HERE, NOT JUST BY
SERVING AS ISRAEL'S DIPLOMATIC
SHIELD AT THE U.N., BUT BY
CONSTANTLY REFUSING TO CRITICIZE
THE INDEFENSIBLE.
WATCH AS JUST THIS WEEK A STATE
DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN DESPERATELY
TRIED TO EQUIVOCATE WHEN ASKED A
PRETTY SIMPLE QUESTION.
>> I WANT TO ASK ON EAST
JERUSALEM.
I DON'T WANT TO HARP ON THIS
EITHER.
BUT THE ISRAELIS KILLED 13
PEOPLE JUST NOW, YOU KNOW,
INCLUDING MAYBE FIVE OR SIX
CHILDREN.
DO YOU CONDEMN THAT?
DO YOU CONDEMN THE KILLING OF
CHILDREN?
>> SAID --
>> I'M ASKING, DO YOU CONDEMN
THE KILLING OF PALESTINIAN
CHILDREN?
>> OBVIOUSLY -- AND THESE
REPORTS ARE JUST EMERGING.
AND I UNDERSTAND -- I WAS JUST
SPEAKING TO THE TEAM.
I UNDERSTAND WE DON'T HAVE
INDEPENDENT CONFIRMATION OF
FACTS ON THE GROUND YET, SO I'M
VERY HESITANT TO GET INTO
REPORTS THAT ARE JUST EMERGING.
OBVIOUSLY, THE DEATHS OF
CIVILIANS, BE THEY ISRAELI OR
PALESTINIANS, ARE SOMETHING WE
WOULD TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY.
>> John: HOLY SHIT, HE JUST
ASKED YOU, "IS CHILD MURDER
BAD?"
THIS REALLY ISN'T HARD.
JUST SAY YES.
THE ONLY SCENARIO IN WHICH THE
ANSWER TO "IS KILLING CHILDREN
WRONG?" GETS TRICKY IS IF YOU'RE
A TIME TRAVELER IN 1890s
AUSTRIA TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY
YOU JUST KILLED THE HITLER
FAMILY'S BOUNCING NEW BABY BOY.
"I KNOW HOW THIS LOOKS, BUT
TRUST ME: IT IS COMPLICATED."
LOOK, THERE IS A REAL TENDENCY,
PARTICULARLY IN AMERICA, TO
"BOTH SIDES" THIS SITUATION, AND
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE AREN'T
SOME AREAS WHERE THAT'S
WARRANTED, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO
RECOGNIZE THERE ARE ALSO AREAS
WHERE IT'S SIMPLY NOT.
BOTH SIDES ARE FIRING ROCKETS,
BUT ONE SIDE HAS ONE OF THE MOST
ADVANCED MILITARIES IN THE
WORLD.
BOTH SIDES ARE SUFFERING
HEARTBREAKING CASUALTIES, BUT
ONE SIDE IS SUFFERING THEM
EXPONENTIALLY.
AND IT'S NOT LIKE THE U.S. IS
OPERATING FROM THE MORAL HIGH
GROUND HERE.
IT'S OBVIOUSLY NO STRANGER TO
DRONE-STRIKING WEDDINGS AND
SAYING, "WE WERE JUST TRYING TO
TARGET ENEMY COMBATANTS."
THIS COUNTRY HAS BLOOD ON ITS
HANDS TOO.
AND LOOK, IF YOU BELIEVE
ISRAEL'S ACTIONS ARE WARRANTED
AND PROPORTIONATE THIS WEEK,
YOU'RE WELCOME TO TRY AND MAKE
THAT ARGUMENT.
BUT WE'VE GOT TO START HAVING
THIS CONVERSATION HONESTLY, AND
FALLING BACK ON CONVENIENT
SANITIZED TERMS LIKE
"REAL ESTATE DISPUTES" AND
"AIR STRIKES ON MILITANTS" FEELS
DISINGENUOUS WHEN WHAT YOU'RE
DESCRIBING IS "FORCING PEOPLE
FROM THE HOMES THEY'VE LIVED IN
FOR DECADES AND KILLING
CIVILIANS AND CHILDREN."
AND AGAIN, NONE OF THIS FREES
HAMAS FROM RESPONSIBILITY.
BUT HAMAS DOESN'T REPRESENT ALL
PALESTINIANS, JUST AS WHAT
ISRAEL IS DOING RIGHT NOW
DOESN'T REPRESENT ALL ISRAELIS,
OR INDEED JEWISH PEOPLE.
LOTS IS COMPLICATED HERE, BUT
SOME THINGS ARE PRETTY SIMPLE.
ONE SIDE IS SUFFERING MUCH MORE.
AND IF AMERICA REALLY WANTS TO
HELP, IT MIGHT WANT TO SERIOUSLY
CONSIDER CHANGING ITS LONG-HELD
POSITION HERE.
BECAUSE FOR DECADES, THE
BACKBONE OF AMERICA'S POLICY IN
THE MIDDLE EAST HAS BEEN THAT
AMERICA IS AN UNWAVERING FRIEND
TO ISRAEL.
WHICH IS A GREAT THING TO BE,
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I
WOULD HOPE THAT A REAL FRIEND
WILL TELL ME WHEN I'M BEING AN
ASSHOLE AND DEFINITELY WHEN I'M
COMMITTING A FUCKING WAR CRIME.
AND NOW THIS.
>> Announcer: AND NOW,
ARI MELBER, RAP GENIUS.
WILL JUST NOT FUCKING STOP.
>> GOOD EVENING, AS SMITH WOULD
SAY.
>> ALL THIS CHASING.
TO PARAPHRASE LAURYN HILL, HE
MAY THINK IS MORE POWERFUL THAN
TWO CLEOPATRA'S BUT HE IS STILL
READY TO FLIP IT IN THE SWAMP ON
A DIRTY MATTRESS.
THERE IS A LYRIC FOR THAT,
MARGARET, WHICH IS JAY-Z SAID,
MAMA ALWAYS TOLD ME DON'T ARGUE
WITH FOOLS BECAUSE PEOPLE FROM A
DISTANCE CAN'T SEE WHO IS WHO.
I HATE THE NEW KANYE, THE BAD
MOOD KANYE, THE NEWS KANYE, I
MISS THE OLD KANYE.
WHEN I LOOK IN THE MIRROR, ALL I
SEE IS FALSE.
FLAWS.
I BELIEVE THERE'S A GOD ABOVE
ME.
AND THAT TRUST THE GOD OF
EVERYTHING ELSE
THAT'S PRETTY POWERFUL.
IT WASN'T AT DRAKE WHO SAID, THE
GAME IS SOLD SEPARATE.
ANOTHER W WAY TO PUT IT IS, IT
STARTED FROM THE BOTTOM AND NOW
WE ARE HERE.
>> YOU COULD PUT IT THAT WAY,
ARI, NOW WE -- YOU COULD.
>> John: MOVING ON.
OUR MAIN STORY TONIGHT CONCERNS
GUNS.
Y'KNOW, BIG PEW-PEW STICKS THAT
GO BOOM-BOOM.
GUNS ARE EVERYWHERE IN AMERICA,
AND I DO MEAN EVERYWHERE.
>> HOW MANY GUNS DO YOU THINK I
CAN HIDE UNDERNEATH A HAWAIIAN
SHIRT?
OF COURSE, WE GOT THE GRAY MAN.
GOT MY BERETTA MODEL 85.
FEELS LIKE A KAHR ARMED CT45.
CHARTER ARMS UNDERCOVER .38
SPECIAL.
GRANDPA DAVE'S OLD DERRINGER.
THIS IS A SCCY CPX-2.
SMITH & WESSON 442.
OH, WAIT!
ONE MORE.
NORTH AMERICAN ARMS SIDEWINDER
.22 MAGNUM, JUST IN CASE YOU
NEED SOMETHING SMALL.
>> John: WOW.
THAT IS THE SECOND-MOST
HORRIFYING THING YOU CAN FIND
COMING AT YOU IN A HAWAIIAN
SHIRT, RIGHT AFTER JOHN LASSETER
ON "NATIONAL HUG YOUR BOSS DAY."
ALTHOUGH I WILL SAY, THE REVEAL
OF THE THUMBELINA-SIZED GUN IN
HIS TOMMY BAHAMA POCKET WAS AN
M. NIGHT SHYAMALAN-WORTHY TWIST.
WELL DONE, TINY GUN.
YOU ARE BOTH SUPERFLUOUS AND
SURPRISING.
BUT THIS STORY ISN'T SO MUCH
ABOUT GUNS THEMSELVES, AS IT IS
ABOUT ONE PARTICULAR LAW THAT'S
SIGNIFICANTLY EXPANDED HOW
THEY'RE USED.
I'M TALKING ABOUT
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS.
30 STATES CURRENTLY HAVE THEM.
AND WHILE THEY WERE INITIALLY
PITCHED AS A LAW-AND-ORDER
MEASURE TO PROTECT PEOPLE FORCED
TO MAKE DIFFICULT DECISIONS IN
IMPOSSIBLE LIFE-OR-DEATH
SITUATIONS, IN PRACTICE THEY CAN
BE INVOKED IN INCIDENTS THAT
REALLY SEEM LIKE THEY DIDN'T
NEED TO TURN DEADLY.
>> THE MAN WHO SHOT AND KILLED A
FATHER OF FOUR AT A FLORISSANT
BAR IS FREE TONIGHT.
SO FAR, THE GUNMAN'S NOT FACING
CHARGES FOR THE SHOOTING AT
SHOW-ME'S BAR AND GRILL.
>> THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY
PROSECUTOR SAYS HE NEEDS MORE
TIME TO DECIDE WHETHER HE'LL
PROSECUTE THE GUNMAN.
THAT'S BECAUSE MISSOURI'S
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAW IS
COMPLICATED.
SCOTT BEARY WAS KILLED WHEN
AN ARGUMENT OVER HOW HEAVY A DOG
COULD WEIGH BECAME PHYSICAL.
>> John: HOLY SHIT.
NOT ONLY IS THAT A MASSIVE
OVERREACTION, IT'S A POINTLESS
ARGUMENT.
EVERYONE KNOWS DOGS COME IN A
WIDE ARRAY OF SIZES, FROM
POCKET-SIZED SWEETIES TO
SLENDER KINGS TO DENSE BOYS TO
DROOPY BOYS TO BIG HONKIN' BOYS
TO STANDARD.
THAT'S JUST VETERINARY SCIENCE.
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS GAINED
NOTORIETY NEARLY A DECADE AGO
WHEN POLICE CLAIMED FLORIDA'S
LAW KEPT THEM FROM INITIALLY
ARRESTING GEORGE ZIMMERMAN AFTER
HE SHOT AND KILLED 17-YEAR-OLD
TRAYVON MARTIN.
MORE RECENTLY, THEY'VE BEEN
FLOATED AS A POTENTIAL DEFENSE
FOR THE KILLERS OF AHMAUD
ARBERY.
AND THOSE ARE JUST TWO
DEVASTATING EXAMPLES OF MANY.
AND DON'T WORRY, WE'RE NOT GOING
TO SHOW YOU THE
FAR-TOO-PLENTIFUL FOOTAGE OF
PEOPLE GETTING SHOT IN PUBLIC
PLACES TONIGHT.
FRANKLY, WE'RE JUST ONE
SENSELESS MURDER AWAY FROM HBO
MAX PUTTING THIS SHOW IN THE
"ENDLESS PARADE OF HUMAN MISERY"
CATEGORY ALONGSIDE "CHERNOBYL"
AND "ENTOURAGE."
BUT GIVEN THE PREVALENCE OF
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS -- AND
THE RACIAL DISPARITIES IN WHO
THEY DO, AND CRUCIALLY, DON'T
PROTECT -- WE THOUGHT TONIGHT
IT'D BE WORTH LOOKING AT THEM.
AND LET'S START WITH WHY,
EXACTLY, STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS
WERE CREATED.
BECAUSE BEFORE THEY CAME ALONG,
MOST STATES ALREADY HAD
SELF-DEFENSE LAWS ON THE BOOKS
THAT TRADITIONALLY INCLUDED AN
ELEMENT KNOWN AS A "DUTY TO
RETREAT," MEANING YOU COULDN'T
RESORT TO USING DEADLY FORCE IN
A CONFRONTATION IF YOU COULD
SAFELY AVOID OR DE-ESCALATE IT.
NOW, IN MANY STATES, AN
EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE WAS A
SO-CALLED "CASTLE DOCTRINE," A
LEGAL THEORY ARGUING THAT YOUR
HOME IS YOUR CASTLE, AND THERE,
YOU CAN USE DEADLY FORCE MUCH
MORE BROADLY TO PROTECT YOURSELF
AGAINST INTRUDERS.
THE KEY THING STAND-YOUR-GROUND
LAWS DID WAS REMOVE THAT "DUTY
TO RETREAT" FROM PUBLIC PLACES,
BASICALLY EXTENDING THE CASTLE
DOCTRINE TO ANYWHERE YOU HAVE A
LEGAL RIGHT TO BE.
IF YOU HAVE A "REASONABLE FEAR"
SOMEONE MIGHT HURT YOU, YOU HAVE
JUST AS MUCH RIGHT TO SHOOT THEM
IN THE STREET AS YOU WOULD IF
THEY WERE COMING THROUGH THE
WINDOW OF YOUR HOUSE.
AND THIS CHANGE WAS LARGELY
THANKS TO THE ADVOCACY OF ONE
WOMAN WITH A PRETTY COMPELLING
STORY.
>> MARION HAMMER SAYS SHE WAS
WALKING TO HER CAR AFTER A LONG
DAY AT THE OFFICE WHEN SHE WAS
ACCOSTED BY A CAR FULL OF MEN.
BUT SHE HAD A SURPRISE FOR THEM.
>> I DREW THE GUN UP THROUGH THE
HEADLIGHTS OF THE CAR AND I
AIMED AT THE DRIVER.
AND SOMEBODY IN THE CAR
SCREAMED, "THE BITCH GOT A GUN!"
>> John: "THE BITCH GOT A GUN."
I HONESTLY DID NOT EXPECT TO
HEAR THAT COME OUT OF THAT
WOMAN'S MOUTH.
"HELP YOURSELF TO SOME HARD
CANDIES IN THE CERAMIC PIG"?
ABSOLUTELY.
"TAKE OFF YOUR BOOTS SO YOU
DON'T TRACK ANYTHING ONTO THE
WALL-TO-WALL CARPETING"?
OF COURSE.
BUT A CURSE WORD?
IN THE DAYLIGHT?
NOT IN 10,000 CONTRACTIONS OF
THE UNIVERSE.
BUT THE IMPORTANT PART OF HER
STORY CONCERNS WHAT SHE CLAIMS A
POLICE CHIEF SAID TO HER AFTER
SHE'D TOLD HER STORY PUBLICLY.
>> THE POLICE CHIEF TOLD ME,
"WELL, IN THAT SITUATION, IF
YOU'D CALLED THE POLICE, WE'D
HAVE ARRESTED YOU, BECAUSE YOU
WERE THE ONLY ONE WHO EMPLOYED
THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE."
AND THAT MADE ME ANGRY.
>> John: AND THAT ARGUMENT IS
THE ABSOLUTE CORE OF THE CASE
FOR STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS --
THAT MARION HAMMER COULD HAVE
BEEN ARRESTED FOR SIMPLY
DEFENDING HERSELF.
NOW, SHE WASN'T, OF COURSE.
THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
BUT SOMEONE SAID SHE MIGHT HAVE
BEEN, AND THAT MADE HER ANGRY.
BUT A FEW THINGS.
BECAUSE WHILE EVERYTHING ABOUT
MARION HAMMER SEEMS LIKE A
SWEET, EVERYDAY GRANDMOTHER --
RIGHT DOWN TO THIS FELINE
GLAMOUR SHOT OF HER POSTED ON A
CAT BREEDER'S WEBSITE -- YOU
SHOULD KNOW SHE'S ALSO ONE THE
COUNTRY'S MOST POWERFUL GUN
LOBBYISTS AND A FORMER PRESIDENT
OF THE NRA.
SHE'S PERSONALLY HELPED PUSH
THROUGH DOZENS OF GUN LAWS IN
FLORIDA ALONE, INCLUDING A 1987
BILL ALLOWING CONCEAL AND CARRY
PERMITS -- A LAW THEN
DUPLICATED, IN SOME FORM, IN
ALMOST EVERY STATE, LEADING TO
MORE THAN 16 MILLION AMERICANS
CURRENTLY HAVING LICENSES TO
CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUNS.
SO THAT MARGARITAVILLE ARSENAL
YOU SAW EARLIER?
YOU HAVE THIS DANA CARVEY
CHARACTER TO THANK FOR THAT
SITUATION.
AND WHILE IT'S NOT ENTIRELY
RELEVANT, HAMMER'S ADVOCACY
WASN'T LIMITED TO GUNS.
SHE ALSO SUCCESSFULLY KILLED A
PETITION FROM 10,000 SCHOOL
CHILDREN TO CHANGE THE FLORIDA
STATE BIRD TO THE SCRUB JAY, A
BIRD SO FRIENDLY IT APPARENTLY
EATS PEANUTS OUT OF YOUR HAND.
SHE OBJECTED BECAUSE, IN HER
WORDS, "BEGGING FOR FOOD ISN'T
SWEET," "IT'S LAZY AND IT'S A
WELFARE MENTALITY."
AND "THEY EAT THE EGGS OF OTHER
BIRDS, THAT'S ROBBERY AND
MURDER.
I DON'T THINK SCRUB JAYS CAN
EVEN SING."
AND, OKAY, SLOW DOWN THERE,
MARION.
SET ASIDE "LAZY,"
"WELFARE MENTALITY," AND
"ROBBERY AND MURDER," WHICH IS A
LOT TO PUT ON A BIRD.
"SCRUB JAYS CAN'T SING"?
YOU MIGHT WANT TO TELL THAT TO
THE SCRUB JAY, MARION.
[BIRD CHIRPING]
SEE?
THAT'S FINE.
IS IT GREAT?
NO, IT'S NOT GREAT.
IT'S FINE.
THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE.
SURE, THE BIRD'S NO MARIAH, BUT
IT'S ALSO NO ROSEANNE.
IF THAT BIRD IS ANYONE, IT'S
FERGIE.
YOU HEARD ME.
THE SCRUB JAY IS FERGIE.
TWEET IT, TOK IT, PUT IT IN YOUR
POCKET.
I'VE MADE A FLIMSY TAKE AND I'M
PROUD OF IT.
THE POINT IS, MARION HAMMER
PLAYED A BIG PART IN PASSING ONE
OF THE COUNTRY'S FIRST
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS, IN
FLORIDA.
AND THE PASSAGE OF THAT BILL WAS
IMMENSELY USEFUL TO THE NRA
BECAUSE IT BECAME A MODEL FOR
LAWS THEY COULD THEN PUSH AROUND
THE COUNTRY.
WAYNE LaPIERRE OPENLY SAID AT
THE TIME THAT FLORIDA WAS THE
FIRST STEP OF A MULTI-STATE
STRATEGY, AND THEY WERE GOING TO
USE THE TAILWIND TO MOVE FROM
STATE LEGISLATURE TO STATE
LEGISLATURE.
AND THEY DID.
JUST SIX YEARS LATER,
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS HAD
PASSED IN 22 STATES.
AND WHILE, FOLLOWING THE KILLING
OF TRAYVON MARTIN, THEY BECAME
INCREASINGLY CONTROVERSIAL,
STATES DID NOT STOP PASSING THE
LAWS -- THEY JUST SLIGHTLY
SLOWED DOWN.
AND DENNIS BAXLEY, ONE OF THE
STATE REPRESENTATIVES WHO HELPED
DRAFT FLORIDA'S BILL, WAS
ADAMANT THAT IT SHOULD NOT BE
ROLLED BACK.
>> WE SHOULD STAND BESIDE
LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.
THEY SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS A
CRIMINAL IF THEY'RE DOING
SOMETHING POSITIVE, WHICH IS
STOPPING A VIOLENT ACT FROM
OCCURRING.
THERE ARE GONNA BE TIMES
WITH CLOSE CALLS NEAR THE
FOUL LINE -- IS IT IN OR IS IT
OUT?
WHO'S THE ASSAILANT AND WHO'S
THE VICTIM?
>> John: YEAH, THERE ARE GOING
TO BE SOME CLOSE CALLS.
IS IT IN OR IS IT OUT?
IS IT RIGHT OR IS IT WRONG?
IS IT SELF-DEFENSE OR IS IT A
MURDER PROVOKED BY A DEBATE
ABOUT HOW MUCH A DOG CAN WEIGH
THAT TURNED PHYSICAL?
WHO CAN SAY?
NOT THAT GUY.
AND THAT IS A LITTLE BIT OF THE
POINT HERE.
THE WAY MOST STATES'
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS
ARE CONSTRUCTED, THEY CAN MAKE
DETERMINING QUESTIONS OF GUILT
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT.
BECAUSE IT ALL COMES DOWN TO
PERCEIVED FEAR -- WHETHER YOU
LEGITIMATELY SAW SOMEONE AS A
THREAT -- AND THAT IS
DEFINITIONALLY SUBJECTIVE.
WHAT I'M AFRAID OF -- SNAKES,
CLOWNS, AND TILDA SWINTON --
JESUS CHRIST! -- MIGHT NOT BE
WHAT YOU ARE.
AND IT'S MADE EVEN HARDER BY THE
FACT THAT OFTEN, THE ONLY OTHER
PERSON WHO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED
IN THE INCIDENT IS DEAD.
AND CITING "STAND YOUR GROUND"
AS A LEGAL DEFENSE HAS BEEN
EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL.
IN FLORIDA ALONE, AS OF 2012,
NEARLY 70% OF PEOPLE WHO CLAIMED
IT AS A DEFENSE HAD GONE FREE.
AND ADVOCATES FOR THESE LAWS
WILL TELL YOU THAT'S A GOOD
THING -- THAT BEFORE THEIR
INTRODUCTION, GOOD PEOPLE WERE
GETTING SENT TO JAIL ALL THE
TIME SIMPLY FOR DEFENDING
THEMSELVES.
BUT THEY NEVER HAD MUCH IN THE
WAY OF ACTUAL EVIDENCE FOR THAT
BEYOND HYPOTHETICALS LIKE
MARION HAMMER'S STORY ABOUT HOW
SOMEONE SAID SHE COULD HAVE GONE
TO JAIL, BUT CRUCIALLY, DIDN'T.
SO STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS
WEREN'T REALLY FIXING A PROBLEM
THAT NEEDED SOLVING.
AND THE DANGERS THEY POSED WERE
PRETTY OBVIOUS TO SOME FROM THE
START.
WHEN GEORGIA WAS DEBATING A
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAW IN 2006, A
LOCAL STATION ASKED PEOPLE IN
THE STREET WHAT THEY THOUGHT.
AND WATCH AS THEIR THIRD
INTERVIEWEE REALIZES SOMETHING
THE FIRST TWO DON'T.
>> I THINK IT'LL LOWER CRIME,
MYSELF.
'CAUSE A PERSON'S GONNA AND
TWICE ABOUT RUNNING UP ON A
CITIZEN IF HE THINKS THAT
CITIZEN'S ARMED.
>> IF YOU FEEL YOUR LIFE'S IN
DANGER, I THINK -- I THINK IT'S
A GOOD -- A GOOD LAW.
>> I THINK IT'S GONNA GET A LOT
OF PEOPLE HURT.
>> WHY'S THAT?
>> WELL, BECAUSE WHEN YOU WALKED
UP TO ME IN A PARKING LOT, I
DIDN'T KNOW WHO YOU WERE.
AND BY THIS LAW, IF I FELT THAT
YOU THREATENED ME, I COULD HAVE
JUST SHOT YOU RIGHT NOW.
YOU KNOW?
I CAN'T -- THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
>> John: YEAH, THAT LAST GUY IS
COMPLETELY RIGHT.
AND IN HINDSIGHT, MAYBE WE
SHOULDN'T HAVE LISTENED TO THE
MAN IN THE "PRIDE OF THE SOUTH"
HAT, THAT, BY THE WAY, FEATURES
A PORTRAIT OF ROBERT E. LEE OVER
A CONFEDERATE FLAG.
THAT HAT ALONE SHOULD HAVE
IMMEDIATELY DISQUALIFIED
ANYTHING HE SAID.
IT'S LIKE IF ANTHONY FAUCI WORE
THIS BUCKET HAT THAT SAYS
"DADDY" IN THE "SHREK" FONT.
IF HE DID, YOU'D BE DUTY-BOUND
TO IGNORE ANYTHING HE SAID.
'CAUSE THE FACT IS, WE NOW
KNOW, OVERALL, NOT ONLY DO
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS NOT DETER
CRIME, THEY MAY ACTUALLY
INCREASE VIOLENCE.
IN STAND-YOUR-GROUND STATES,
HOMICIDES OVERALL HAVE INCREASED
NEARLY 11% SINCE THE LAWS'
ENACTMENT, WHEREAS IN STATES
WITHOUT THOSE LAWS, THE HOMICIDE
RATE WENT DOWN BY JUST OVER 2%.
IN FACT, ANOTHER STUDY FOUND
SUCH LAWS TRANSLATE INTO AN
ADDITIONAL 600 HOMICIDES PER
YEAR.
AND IF YOU'RE THINKING, "WELL,
COME ON, YOU CAN'T DRAW A
STRAIGHT LINE BETWEEN THESE
SPECIFIC LAWS AND PEOPLE'S
ACTIONS" -- IN SOME CASES, YOU
VERY MUCH CAN, INCLUDING ONE OF
THE VERY FIRST STAND-YOUR-GROUND
CASES IN TEXAS, THAT OF JOE
HORN, WHO CALLED 911 TO REPORT A
BURGLARY HAPPENING DURING THE
DAY AT HIS NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR'S
HOUSE.
>> I'VE GOT A SHOTGUN.
DO YOU WANT ME TO STOP HIM?
>> NOPE, DON'T DO THAT.
AIN'T NO PROPERTY WORTH SHOOTING
SOMEBODY OVER, OKAY?
>> JOE HORN SOUNDS CLEARLY
UPSET.
>> I AM NOT GONNA LET THEM GET
AWAY WITH IT.
I CAN'T TAKE A CHANCE ON GETTING
KILLED OVER THIS, OKAY?
>> NO.
>> I'M GONNA SHOOT.
>> GONNA SHOOT.
>> BUT THE 911 DISPATCHER WARNS
HORN TO STAY INSIDE AT LEAST A
DOZEN SEPARATE TIMES.
>> AN OFFICER IS COMING OUT
THERE.
I DON'T WANT YOU TO GO OUTSIDE
OF THAT HOUSE.
>> THEN HORN, SOUNDING ANGRIER
BY THE MOMENT, CITES THE NEW
TEXAS LAW.
>> I HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTECT
MYSELF TOO, SIR AND YOU
UNDERSTAND THAT.
>> YES, YOU DO.
YES, YOU DO.
>> AND THE LAWS HAVE BEEN
CHANGED IN THIS COUNTRY SINCE
SEPTEMBER THE 1ST AND YOU KNOW
IT AND I KNOW IT.
>> John: YEAH, JOE HORN KNEW
WHAT THE LAWS SAID, AND DESPITE
THE DISPATCHER WARNING HIM NOT
TO GO OUTSIDE 14 TIMES, HE DID
JUST THAT AND KILLED TWO PEOPLE,
WITH AUTOPSY REPORTS LATER
SHOWING THAT BOTH MEN APPEARED
TO HAVE BEEN SHOT IN THE BACK.
HE WAS EXPLICITLY TOLD THAT
PROPERTY IS NOT WORTH SHOOTING
PEOPLE OVER.
WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY TRUE.
AND CERTAINLY NOT YOUR
NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.
IF I FOUND OUT MY NEIGHBOR SHOT
AND KILLED TWO PEOPLE TO SAVE MY
PS5, I WOULD MOVE TOMORROW.
I KNOW THEY'RE HARD TO GET YOUR
HANDS ON, BUT JESUS CHRIST, CALM
DOWN.
I DON'T WANT YOUR BLOOD CONSOLE.
AND THANKS TO TEXAS' NEW
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS, JOE HORN
WAS NEVER ARRESTED.
AND ULTIMATELY, A GRAND JURY
DECLINED TO EVER CHARGE HIM WITH
A CRIME.
AND NOT ONLY WAS HORN SPARED ANY
CONSEQUENCES, HE WAS LATER
CELEBRATED AS A HERO.
>> YOU HAD 911 ON AND YOU SAID,
I'M GONNA GO STOP THEM.
YOU GOTTA GET HERE, I'M GONNA
STOP THEM.
THEY SAID, NO, NO, NO, DON'T GO
OUT.
YOU -- YOU STOPPED THEM.
THEY CAME TOWARDS YOU.
YOU SHOT THEM, RIGHT?
>> YES, SIR.
THAT'S CORRECT.
[CHEERING]
>> John: OKAY.
SET ASIDE THAT JOE HORN LOOKS
LIKE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF
BOBBY HILL GREW UP AND SUCKED.
THE ONLY TIME IT'S APPROPRIATE
TO CHEER AFTER SOMEONE SAYS "YOU
SHOT THEM" IS IF YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBLE
FOR SHOOTING THIS VIDEO OF A
FAMILY OF BEARS IN A SWIMMING
POOL.
QUESTION: "YOU SAW THE BEARS,
YOU HAD YOUR PHONE READY, AND
YOU SHOT THEM, RIGHT?"
ANSWER: "YES, SIR, THAT'S
CORRECT."
CUE THE FUCKING APPLAUSE.
NO OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES.
NONE.
AND IF THESE LAWS ON THEIR OWN
WEREN'T BAD ENOUGH, THERE IS NOW
ALSO A SMALL COTTAGE INDUSTRY
THAT'S CROPPED UP AROUND THEM
SELLING SPECIALIZED SELF-DEFENSE
LEGAL ASSISTANCE.
MOST OF THESE COMPANIES OFFER
MEMBERSHIP PACKAGES INCLUDING
EVERYTHING FROM EDUCATIONAL
TRAINING VIDEOS TO MONEY FOR
FUTURE LEGAL DEFENSE AND BOND.
THE U.S. CONCEALED CARRY
ASSOCIATION INSISTS IT'S
PRIMARILY CONCERNED WITH
TEACHING CONFLICT AVOIDANCE, BUT
IT ALSO GIVES YOU A WALLET-SIZED
CARD WITH TIPS ON HOW TO HANDLE
THE CALL YOU MAKE TO POLICE
AFTER YOU'VE SHOT SOMEONE, A
HANDY FEATURE THEIR FOUNDER
PROUDLY TOUTS TO MEMBERS.
>> THIS IS MY VERY OWN USCCA
CARD.
YOU CAN SEE MY NAME ON IT,
TIM SCHMIDT, RIGHT ON THE BACK
OF THE CARD.
IT ACTUALLY LISTS THE EXACT
INSTRUCTIONS FOR WHAT TO SAY TO
A RESPONDING OFFICER.
EXPLAIN I WAS ATTACKED, I FEARED
FOR MY LIFE, AND I HAD TO DEFEND
MYSELF.
>> John: OKAY, SETTING ASIDE THE
FACT THAT LOOKS LIKE THE MOST
BORING EPISODE OF "SPORTSCENTER"
IMAGINABLE, IT FEELS IMPORTANT
TO POINT OUT THEY'VE ESSENTIALLY
CREATED A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE
CARD.
AND THAT MIXED WITH THAT MAN'S
GET OUT OF JAIL FREE COMPLEXION
IS A PRETTY AWFUL COMBINATION.
AND AT LEAST ONE OF USCCA'S
CLIENTS APPARENTLY TOOK THE
ADVICE ON THAT CARD AND RAN WITH
IT:
>> CARLOS GARCIA'S EX-WIFE,
YAILEEN AYALA, PAINTS HIM AS A
LOVING FATHER WHO WOULD DO
ANYTHING FOR HIS CHILDREN.
SHE BELIEVES HE WAS INTOXICATED
WHEN HE SHOWED UP TO PICK UP HIS
KIDS AND GOT INTO AN ARGUMENT
WITH THE NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR,
NICK JULIAN IV, OVER HIM PLAYING
LOUD MUSIC IN THE CAR.
JULIAN ARMED HIMSELF WITH A
HANDGUN AND SHOT GARCIA, HE
CLAIMS IN SELF-DEFENSE.
NEIGHBORS CAME OUT AS JULIAN IV
WAS ON WITH 911.
>> 911, WHAT IS YOUR
EMERGENCY?
>> YES, MA'AM, I JUST HAD A MAN
ATTACK ME IN MY FRONT YARD.
HE ATTACKED ME AND I HAD TO USE
FORCE.
I WAS AFRAID FOR MY LIFE.
>> John: YEAH, IT SEEMS ALL YOU
HAVE TO DO IS MEMORIZE A FEW KEY
PHRASES AND YOU TOO COULD BE
FREE TO SHOOT WITH IMPUNITY.
IT'S BASICALLY ROSETTA STONE FOR
JUSTIFIED HOMICIDES, BECAUSE
DURING HIS 911 CALL, NICK JULIAN
MADE SURE TO SAY THAT HE FEARED
FOR HIS LIFE THREE SEPARATE
TIMES AND CAN ALSO BE HEARD
REFERRING TO HIS WALLET AND
SAYING TO SOMEONE, "YOU JUST
NEED TO CALL THEM, GIVE THEM THE
ACCOUNT NUMBER AND MY ATTORNEY."
AND BY THE TIME THE POLICE
ARRIVED, HE WAS ALREADY ON THE
PHONE WITH THE U.S. CONCEALED
CARRY ASSOCIATION SETTING UP HIS
LEGAL DEFENSE BEFORE HIS VICTIM
HAD EVEN BEEN DECLARED DEAD.
AND I KNOW IT MIGHT SEEM LIKE
THESE LAWS ARE JUST A
FREE-FOR-ALL TO SHOOT SOMEONE
WHO SCARES YOU.
BUT THE TRUTH IS, THERE ARE SOME
LIMITS.
AND YOU PROBABLY KNOW WHERE THIS
IS GOING.
BECAUSE WHILE MOST SHOOTINGS
INVOLVE PEOPLE OF THE SAME RACE,
WHEN CASES INVOLVE SHOOTINGS
ACROSS RACIAL LINES, THERE ARE
SIGNIFICANT DISPARITIES IN WHOSE
FEAR GETS BELIEVED.
BECAUSE THE ODDS A
WHITE-ON-BLACK HOMICIDE WAS
DEEMED JUSTIFIED BY THE POLICE
WERE 281% GREATER THAN THE ODDS
A WHITE-ON-WHITE HOMICIDE WAS.
AND THE EXPANSION OF
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS HAVE
APPEARED TO WORSEN THAT
DISPARITY, A FACT THAT I'M
PRETTY SURE WOULD SURPRISE
EXACTLY TWO OF THESE THREE MEN.
NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THERE ARE
MULTIPLE EXAMPLES WHERE YOU
WOULD THINK, IF EVER A
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAW WOULD
APPLY, THIS WOULD BE THE CASE --
AND YET, IT DIDN'T.
TAKE SIWATU-SALAMA RA, WHO WAVED
AN UNLOADED, REGISTERED GUN AT A
WOMAN WHO SHE BELIEVED WAS
TRYING TO HIT HER AND HER YOUNG
DAUGHTER WITH HER CAR.
BUT EVEN THOUGH HER STATE OF
MICHIGAN HAS A STAND-YOUR-GROUND
LAW, AND EVEN THOUGH THAT
INCIDENT CLEARLY FALLS UNDER A
REASONABLE DEFINITION OF
SELF-DEFENSE WITHOUT IT, AND
EVEN THOUGH SHE DIDN'T EVEN
SHOOT THE GUN BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT
WAS UNLOADED, SHE WAS
SENTENCED TO TWO YEARS ON THE
CHARGE OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT
A FELONY.
AND WHILE, AFTER OUTCRY, SHE
WAS EVENTUALLY ABLE TO PLEAD TO
A LESSER CHARGE, THAT WASN'T
BEFORE SHE'D SPENT A YEAR IN
PRISON.
AND SHE WAS PREGNANT AT THE TIME
AND WAS FORCED TO BIRTH IN
SHACKLES.
SO DESPITE BEING INTRODUCED TO
INCREASE SAFETY,
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS ACTUALLY
INCREASE VIOLENCE.
AND GIVEN AROUND FOUR CENTURIES
OF HISTORY, BASING A LAW AROUND
"WHO'S AFRAID OF WHO" WAS ALWAYS
GOING TO BE DANGEROUS.
IT'S THE REASON OHIO STATE
LEGISLATOR STEPHANIE HOWSE STOOD
UP TO OPPOSE HER STATE PASSING
ITS STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAW BACK
IN 2018:
>> WHEN YOUR PRESENCE, WHEN YOUR
BEING, YOUR BLACKNESS CAUSES
FEAR -- DO YOU HEAR WHAT I'M
SAYING?
I'VE BEEN IN THESE -- THESE
FLOORS WHERE I HEAR PEOPLE TELL
ME, "YOU KNOW PEOPLE SCARED OF
YOU."
IT'S PEOPLE I HAVE NEVER
INTERACTED WITH.
WHAT DO YOU DO IN PLACES AND
SPACES WHEN YOUR PRESENCE --
LITERALLY YOUR FACE, YOUR FACE
CAUSES SOMEONE TO BE FEARFUL OF
YOU?
THIS IS A BAD IDEA FOR PEOPLE
THAT LOOK LIKE ME.
>> John: EXACTLY.
THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT MAKES THESE LAWS SO
DANGEROUS.
THEY CAN EXALT A WHITE PERSON'S
FEAR OVER A BLACK PERSON'S LIFE
AND ARE APPLIED SO UNEVENLY THAT
SIWATU-SALAMA RA GAVE BIRTH IN
SHACKLES WHILE THIS GUY GETS A
FUCKING PARADE.
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS HAVE
CONTRIBUTED TO A SOCIETY WHERE
VIGILANTES WITH GUNS FEEL THEY
HAVE TO RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT IS
SAFETY, WHO IS A THREAT, AND
WHAT THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD BE.
THEY'VE TURBO-CHARGED EVERYTHING
FROM ROAD-RAGE INCIDENTS TO
POINTLESS DISPUTES OVER DOG
WEIGHTS.
SO WHAT CAN WE DO?
WELL, THE ANSWER IS ACTUALLY
PRETTY SIMPLE.
DON'T PASS ANY MORE
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS AND
REPEAL THE ONES THAT DO EXIST.
THEY'RE REDUNDANT SOLUTIONS TO A
MADE-UP PROBLEM, AND THEY'RE
ACTIVELY DOING HARM.
IN THE PAST YEAR, AT LEAST 14
BILLS HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED IN
FIVE STATES TO ROLL THEIR
STAND-YOUR-GROUND LAWS BACK.
AND IF YOU LIVE IN A
STAND-YOUR-GROUND STATE,
ESPECIALLY ONE WHERE THOSE BILLS
HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED, YOU SHOULD
ABSOLUTELY WRITE TO YOUR
REPRESENTATIVES TO URGE THEM TO
REPEAL THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, IF YOU
LIVE IN FLORIDA -- OR, FUCK IT,
ANY STATE -- IN THE INTERESTS OF
ANNOYING MARION HAMMER, MAYBE
ALSO DEMAND THEY MAKE YOUR STATE
BIRD THE FLORIDA SCRUB JAY, SO
IT CAN DELIVER ITS FERGILICIOUS
VICTORY SONG.
[BIRD CHIRPING]
THAT'S A B-PLUS BIRD.
THAT BIRD IS FINE.
THAT'S OUR SHOW.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.
WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
GOOD NIGHT.
[BIRD CHIRPING]