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[ROCK MUSIC]
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>> John: WELCOME
WELCOME, WELCOME
TO "LAST WEEK TONIGHT"!
I'M JOHN OLIVER.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US,
AND LET'S DIVE STRAIGHT IN WITH
UKRAINE, WHERE IT'S BEEN A TRULY
GRIM WEEK.
AND YET, UKRAINIAN CITIZENS HAVE
CONTINUED TO SHOW INCREDIBLE
SIGNS OF RESISTANCE, PROVING
THEY'RE TRULY THE "FUCK AROUND
AND FIND OUT" COUNTRY
OF EASTERN EUROPE.
>> FOR GRANDMOTHER AND RETIRED
ECONOMIST.
THESE ARE THE ONLY WEAPONS SHE
HAS BUT SHE SAYS SHE'S READY TO
FIGHT.
LET THOSE RUSSIAN SHITS COME
HERE.
WE ARE READY TO GREET THEM.
>> DO YOU HAVE A MESSAGE FOR
PRESIDENT PUTIN.
>> PUTIN [BLEEP]
>> IT'S A POPULAR SENTIMENT ON
THE STREETS.
THIS MAN'S SIGN IS TOO VULGAR TO
TRANSLATE.
>> John: OH, IS IT?
WELL, WE CAN HELP YOU THERE.
THIS IS THE NETWORK THAT AIRS
SHOWS ABOUT HIGH SCHOOLERS
TAKING HEROIN AND HOSTING ORGIES
BEFORE HOMEROOM, SO WE HAVE NO
SUCH PROBLEMS.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT SIGN
TRANSLATES TO "PUTIN IS
A DICKHEAD," WHICH HE CLEARLY
VERY MUCH IS.
ALSO, IT'S NOTABLE "DICKHEAD"
WAS TOO VULGAR FOR CNN, BUT
MOLOTOV GRANDMA GOT TO SAY
"LET THOSE RUSSIAN SHITS COME"
WITH NO PROBLEM.
IT SEEMS SHE'S ABOVE THE LAW,
AS SHE SHOULD BE.
UKRAINIANS' DEFIANCE AND SENSE
OF HUMOR IN THE MIDST OF SUCH AN
BRUTAL, OUTMATCHED FIGHT HAS
UNDERSTANDABLY CAPTURED THE
WORLD'S IMAGINATION, ALTHOUGH
WHAT SOME HAVE CHOSEN TO DO WITH
THAT IMAGINATION HAS LEFT
A LITTLE TO BE DESIRED.
>> TO ME, ZIELINSKI IS A CROSS
BETWEEN CHURCHILL AND
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER.
HE'S INCREDIBLE.
>> A GREAT STORY, SLASH, MAYBE
ONE DAY A MOVIE.
>> PEOPLE WERE QUICK TO CAST THE
FILM ON TWITTER SAYING JEREMY
RENNER WOULD MAKE THE PERFECT
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.
>> WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A
WAR.
>> A LITTLE INSENSITIVE BUT
WHENEVER IT DOES GET MADE, IT'S
GOING TO BE UP EPIC.
>> John: BABY WAIT FOR THE
ACTUAL WORD TO END BEFORE START
CASTING THE MOVIE.
BUT TO BE FAIR, "YEAH, A LITTLE
INSENSITIVE BUT WE'RE GONNA RUN
WITH IT ANYWAY" IS THE OFFICIAL
MOTTO OF TMZ.
AND SPARE A THOUGHT THERE FOR
VOLODMIR ZELENSKY.
HE'S GOT ENOUGH GOING ON RIGHT
NOW WITHOUT BEING DESCRIBED AS A
"JEREMY RENNER TYPE."
THAT'S NOT A NICE THING TO SAY.
AS FOR RUSSIA, THEY'VE RESPONDED
TO WORLDWIDE CRITICISM BY
CLAMPING DOWN HARD ON DISSENT
AT HOME.
PUTIN JUST SIGNED A LAW
EFFECTIVELY CRIMINALIZING ANY
PUBLIC OPPOSITION TO, OR
INDEPENDENT NEWS REPORTING
ABOUT, THE WAR, AND AUTHORITIES
HAVE BLOCKED TWITTER AND
FACEBOOK, AND THREATING TO BLOCK
WIKIPEDIA.
THE EDUCATION MINISTRY EVEN
PRODUCED A NATIONWIDE ONLINE
LESSON FOR CHILDREN, FEATURING A
LITTLE GIRL ASKING QUESTIONS
ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON AND
GETTING SOME SPECTACULAR
ANSWERS.
>> Interpreter: I HAVE A
QUESTION.
SPECIAL OPERATIONS.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
>> GOALS LEAD TO PEACE.
WE DO NOT ATTACK RESIDENTIAL
BUILDINGS.
WE DO NOT HIT CIVILIANS.
WE DO NOT DESTROY SOCIAL
INFRASTRUCTURE.
KINDERGARTEN, SCHOOL, WATER
UTILITIES, SUBSTATIONS.
>> John: EXCEPT YOU'VE LITERALLY
JUST DONE ALMOST ALL THOSE
THINGS.
RUSSIAN STRIKES HAVE DESTROYED
HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS, AND HOMES.
ALSO I DON'T WANT TO BE GIVING
NOTES TO STATE PROPAGANDA.
BUT IF YOU'RE LYING TO A CHILD'S
FACE, MAYBE CAST A LESS CREEPY
MAN TO DO IT.
MAY I SUGGEST FILM ACTOR
JEREMY RENNER?
PEOPLE SEEM TO WANT HIM INVOLVED
IN THIS SOMEHOW.
AND YET, DESPITE RUSSIA'S
EFFORTS TO CONTROL THE
NARRATIVE, WE CONTINUE TO SEE
PUBLIC PROTESTS AND SOME
RUSSIAN CELEBRITIES,
POLITICIANS, AND EVEN A FEW
OLIGARCHS HAVE CAUTIOUSLY
SPOKEN OUT.
WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE,
NOT ONLY IS THE WAR MORALLY
INDEFENSIBLE, BUT THE IMPACTS OF
GLOBAL SANCTIONS ARE NOW BEING
FELT AT EVERY LEVEL OF RUSSIAN
SOCIETY.
THE ECONOMY THERE IS IN FREE
FALL AND JUST WATCH THE LEVEL
OF DESPAIR IN THIS EXCHANGE ON A
RUSSIAN FINANCIAL NETWORK.
>> Interpreter: HELLO.
>> I WON'T SAY GOOD DAY.
>> NO ONE DOES THESE DAYS.
>> JOKES ASIDE, LET'S DO THIS
QUICK.
SENDING REGARDS.
12 TO 13 YEARS AGO, HE DRANK TO
THE DEATH OF THE STOCK MARKET.
DEAR STOCK MARKET, YOU WERE
CLOSE TO US.
YOU ARE INTERESTING TO US.
REST IN PEACE, DEAR COMRADE.
>> John: WOW.
THAT GUY TOASTED THE DEATH OF
THE RUSSIAN STOCK MARKET, SAYING
"YOU WERE CLOSE TO US, YOU WERE
INTERESTING TO US," THEN
CHUGGING SOME SELTZER.
WHICH IS STRIKING, BUT SOUNDS
LESS LIKE HOW YOU'D MOURN A
FINANCIAL SYSTEM AND MORE LIKE
HOW YOU'D GIVE A EULOGY FOR A
CLOWN YOU DON'T KNOW ALL THAT
WELL PERSONALLY.
"YOU WERE CLOSE TO US, YOU WERE
INTERESTING TO US."
KSHHHH.
YET, FOR ALL THE UKRAINIAN
RESISTANCE AND RUSSIAN
DISCONTENT, THE FACT IS,
RUSSIA'S ADVANCING AND
COMMITTING HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES
ALONG THE WAY.
AND IT LOOKS LIKE CASUALTIES ARE
ONLY GOING TO RISE, ESPECIALLY
GIVEN, AFTER A CALL WITH PUTIN
ON THURSDAY, FRENCH PRESIDENT
EMMANUEL MACRON WAS REPORTEDLY
CONVINCED THAT PUTIN WANTS TO
SEIZE THE WHOLE OF UKRAINE AND
THAT "THE WORST IS TO COME."
SO SADLY, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S
GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT OR JUST HOW
BAD THIS COULD GET.
WHAT DETERMINES THE
OUTCOME HERE MAY NOT SO MUCH BE
UKRAINIAN RESISTANCE OR RUSSIAN
PROPAGANDA, SO MUCH AS ONE MAN'S
DETERMINATION TO BE -- IF I MAY
QUOTE ONE OF THE MOST APPLICABLE
PHRASES IN ANY LANGUAGE--
A TOTAL DICKHEAD.
AND NOW THIS.
>> Announcer: AND NOW THE LINE
EVERY BACHELOR AND BACHELORETTE
IS FORCED TO SAY.
>> CLEAR WATERS, BLUE SKIES,
SUNSHINE.
IT'S MAGICAL.
SERIOUSLY.
THE PERFECT PLACE TO FALL IN
LOVE.
>> TAHITI IS THE PERFECT PLACE
TO FALL IN LOVE.
>> THE PERFECT PLACE TO FALL IN
LOVE.
>> ST. THOMAS IS THE PERFECT
PLACE TO FOLLOW LOVE.
>> CREATION IS THE PERFECT PLACE
TO FALL IN LOVE.
>> BIMINI IS THE PERFECT PLACE
TO FALL IN LOVE.
>> ISLA IS THE PERFECT PLACE TO
FALL IN LOVE.
>> WISCONSIN IS A PERFECT PLACE
TO FOLLOW LOVE.
>> FORT LAUDERDALE IS A
BEAUTIFUL PLACE UPON LOVE.
PERFECT PLACE, PERFECT PLACE,
PERFECT PLACE FROM A PERFECT
PLACE TO FOLLOW LOVE.
>> I'M IN DEADWOOD,
SOUTH DAKOTA.
THIS IS THE PERFECT PLACE EITHER
FALL IN LOVE OR GET SHOT IN THE
BACK.
>> John: MOVING ON.
OUR MAIN STORY CONCERNS JUSTICE,
THE THING BEST SERVED BY
STEVE HARVEY.
>> THIS COURT IS GOING TO AWARD
YOU A VIP MOMENT.
YOU AND YOUR GIRL AN ADDITIONAL
$5,000.
FROM ME.
AND MY COURT.
YOU TAKE YOUR GIRL TO VEGAS.
PARTY LIKE IT'S 1999.
THAT'S MY VERDICT.
AND THAT'S HOW I SEE IT.
>> John: INCREDIBLE.
JUST TOP TO BOTTOM GREAT.
FROM AWARDING A WOMAN A "VIP
MOMENT" AS IF THAT PHRASE MEANS
ANYTHING, TO THE ENTIRE GALLERY
CLAPPING FOR THE PLAINTIFF,
INCLUDING THE DEFENDANT,
TO DEMANDING SHE ORGANIZE
A VACATION WITH ALL OF HER
FRIENDS, EVERY GOOGLE CALENDAR'S
NIGHTMARE.
AND THAT'S SAYING NOTHING OF THE
M.V.P. OF THAT CLIP:
STEVE HARVEY'S LITTLE GOLDEN
GAVEL WHICH HE IS MAKING A FULL
FIVE COURSE MEAL OUT OF.
HONESTLY, I WISH I HAD ONE.
WAIT, HOLD ON, I DO.
CLOMP-CLOMP-CLOMP-CLOMP-CLOMP,
ORDER IN THE COURT.
CLOMP CLOMP!
BIG MAN, TINY HAMMER ALERT.
CLOMPITY CLOMP!
I'M A GAVEL GUY NOW.
GET USED TO IT.
SADLY, THOUGH, NOT ALL COURTS
ARE AS INFALLIBLE AS STEVE
HARVEY'S.
AS WE'VE DISCUSSED MANY TIMES ON
THIS SHOW, TRIALS CAN GO AWRY
FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, FROM
PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT TO
UNDERFUNDED AND OVERWORKED
PUBLIC DEFENDERS, TO FLAWED JURY
SELECTION, TO HOW WE ELECT
JUDGES, TO PROBLEMS WITH
MANDATORY MINIMUMS, ALL THE WAY
TO FLIMSY JIZZ ANALYSIS.
LUCKILY, AS POP CULTURE HAS
TAUGHT US, THERE'S A REMEDY FOR
WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS, BUILT
RIGHT INTO THE SYSTEM.
>> IT ISN'T OVER.
>> I WILL GET THE CONVICTIONS
OVERTURNED ON THE APPEAL.
>> I WILL APPEAL THIS ALL THE
WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT.
>> WE WILL APPEAL THIS.
>> John: OKAY, HOLD ON.
LET'S JUST ACKNOWLEDGE JULIANNA
MARGULIES THERE, BECAUSE SHE IS
CAPITAL "A" ACTING THERE, DOING
ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING WITH
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
JULIANNA MARGULIES IS DOING MORE
IN THIS THREE SECOND CLIP THAN
THE ROCK HAS DONE IN HIS ENTIRE
CAREER.
YOU HEARD ME.
I SAID WHAT I SAID.
THE ROCK HAS
OFFICIALLY BEEN CLOMPED.
THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN SIMPLY
FIGHT A WRONGFUL CONVICTION AND
GET EXONERATED RUNS DEEP.
BUT THE TRUTH IS, IT'S FAR MORE
DIFFICULT THAN YOU MIGHT EXPECT.
EVEN IF THERE'S COMPELLING
EVIDENCE YOU'RE INNOCENT.
TAKE LAMAR JOHNSON, WHO WAS
CONVICTED IN 1995 OF MURDER.
BUT BETWEEN HIS CONVICTION, AND
HIS SENTENCING, ONE OF THE REAL
KILLERS WROTE HIM A LETTER THAT
YOU'D THINK WOULD'VE CHANGED
EVERYTHING.
>> THE LETTER OPENS BY SAYING
IT'S PRETTY MUCH MESSED UP
JOHNSON WAS CONVICTED WHEN HE
DIDN'T DO ANYTHING AND THAT
EXPLAINS WHO DID IT AND WHAT
HAPPENED.
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, EVEN WITH THE
LETTER, THIS IS STILL THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM TRYING TO FIGURE
OUT HOW TO FREE AN INNOCENT MAN.
>> I NEVER EXPECTED THAT THIS
CASE WOULD GO THE WAY THAT IT
DID, THAT I WOULD END UP CHARGED
MUCH LESS CONVICTED AND BE HERE
FOR THE LAST 20 SOME YEARS
TRYING TO PROVE I DIDN'T DO IT.
>> John: OKAY, A LOT TO UNPACK
THERE.
FROM THE FACT THAT LETTER DIDN'T
SAY IT WAS "MESSED UP," IT SAID
IT WAS "FUCKED UP."
TO THE FACT IT OPENED WITH
"WHAT'S UP, DUDE."
WHICH IS A WEIRD WAY TO GREET A
PERSON WHO'S IN PRISON FOR
SOMETHING YOU DID.
HOW'D HE EXPECT JOHNSON TO
RESPOND: "OH, NOT MUCH, YOU?"
BUT IT'S NOT JUST THAT LETTER --
BOTH THE REAL KILLERS HAVE NOW
SIGNED MULTIPLE AFFIDAVITS.
THAT'S AN AUTOMATIC GET OF JAIL
FREE CARD, UNFORTUNATELY, LIFE
ISN'T A GAME OF MONOPOLY.
FOR ONE THING, NO ONE THESE DAYS
CAN AFFORD TO BUY PROPERTY AND
TOP HATS ARE ONLY WORN BY AMY
SHERMAN PALLADINO AND THE
BABADOOK.
SO AS OF NOW, JOHNSON IS STILL
IN PRISON, AND IT'S VERY MUCH UP
IN THE AIR WHETHER HE'LL GET
OUT.
AND IF YOU'RE WONDERING HOW THE
FUCK THAT CAN BE THE CASE,
THAT'S WHAT OUR STORY TONIGHT'S
ABOUT.
IT CONCERNS ALL THE REASONS WHY,
IF YOU'RE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED
- - EVEN IF THERE'S COMPELLING
EVIDENCE OF YOUR INNOCENCE --
IT'S REALLY HARD TO BE
EXONERATED.
AND LET'S START WITH THE FACT
THE CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES THE
WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS WHICH IS
TO PROTECT AGAINST UNLAWFUL
IMPRISONMENT.
BASICALLY, YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO
CHALLENGE YOUR INCARCERATION.
AND YOU CAN DO THAT IN BOTH
STATE AND FEDERAL COURT.
BUT AS THIS DEFENSE ATTORNEY
EXPLAINS, THERE'S A MAJOR
LIMITATION ON THAT RIGHT:
>> IT'S NOT JUST ENOUGH TO BE
INNOCENT.
THAT DOESN'T GET YOU ANYWHERE.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING ELSE
TO BE ABLE TO GET BACK ON.
>> John: YEAH, IT'S TRUE.
IN GENERAL, INNOCENCE ITSELF IS
NOT AN APPEALABLE ISSUE.
SO SHOCKING, IT MIGHT
PROMPT YOU TO GO NOW, WHAT YOU
- - SHE WAS IN THE BACKGROUND OF
THAT SCENE GIVING AT THAT KIND
OF COMMITMENT.
WHAT YOU CAN APPEAL ON THIS IN A
SHOCKING NEW EVIDENCE THAT
WASN'T AVAILABLE DURING YOUR
ORIGINAL TRIAL OR CLAIM THEIR
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WERE
VIOLATED.
AND THAT'S ALREADY A LONG SHOT.
ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WHILE YOU
HAVE THE RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY AT
YOUR ORIGINAL TRIAL, YOU'RE NOT
GUARANTEED ONE AFTER YOUR
CONVICTION.
MOST STATES DO PROVIDE ONE IN
DEATH PENALTY CASES, BUT EVEN
THEN, THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THEY
BE COMPETENT.
AND ATTORNEYS CAN BE
INCOMPETENT.
TAKE GEDDES ANDERSON.
HE REPRESENTED A MAN NAMED
EDWARD LEE ELMORE IN A MURDER
CASE AND LOST IT.
ELMORE WAS SENTENCED TO DEATH,
AND WHILE ON DEATH ROW, APPEALED
HIS CONVICTION.
HE PETITIONED FOR A DIFFERENT
LAWYER, BUT WAS TOLD HE HAD TO
STICK WITH ANDERSON, WHO'D ONLY
SPENT EIGHT DAYS PREPARING FOR
HIS TRIAL AND WHO CAN ONLY BE
DESCRIBED AS THE MOST TENNESSEE
WILLIAMS OF CHARACTERS.
>> IN RETROSPECT, PERHAPS I
SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR MORE TIME.
I NEVER PROCLAIMED TO BE THE
BEST LAWYER THAT EVER GRACED THE
COURTROOM.
>> John: WELL, THAT'S NOT GREAT.
THE ONLY THING WORSE THAN BEING
A BAD LAWYER IS BEING A BAD
LAWYER WITH LOW SELF-ESTEEM.
IN THE WORDS OF RUPAUL, IF YOU
CAN'T DEFEND YOURSELF, HOW IN
THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO DEFEND
SOMEBODY ELSE?
YOU DO NEED AN EXCEPTIONALLY
GOOD ATTORNEY FOR AN APPEAL.
POSTCONVICTION LAWS AND
CURRENTLY DIFFICULT TO
UNDERSTAND EVEN FOR A SEASONED
ATTORNEY AND YOU WANT TO GET IT
RIGHT BECAUSE ANY TECHNICAL
ERROR COULD RESULT IN YOUR
APPEAL BEING DISMISSED.
SO MANY WRONGFUL CONVICTION
CASES ARE WON OR LOST ON
TECHNICALITIES.
EVEN ONES THAT ARE PRETTY
COMPELLING!
TAKE RICKY KIDD, A MAN
WRONGFULLY CONVICTED OF MURDER
IN 1997 DESPITE THE FACT THAT
NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE LINKED HIM
TO THE MURDERS.
THE CASE AGAINST HIM WAS
LITTERED WITH POLICE
INCOMPETENCE AND PROSECUTORIAL
MISCONDUCT.
AND HIS OWN LAWYER FAILED TO
CHASE DOWN EXONERATING EVIDENCE,
SUCH AS THE FACT THAT, AROUND
THE TIME THE MURDER TOOK PLACE,
KIDD WAS IN A SHERIFF'S OFFICE,
APPLYING FOR A GUN PERMIT.
WHICH IS A PRETTY SOLID ALIBI.
KIDD'S BEST GROUNDS TO APPEAL
WERE THAT HE HAD INEFFECTIVE
COUNSEL AT HIS FIRST TRIAL.
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN HIS NEW
LAWYERS FILED THAT APPEAL, THEY
FAILED TO INCLUDE THAT ARGUMENT.
SO THE STATE FOUGHT TO KEEP HIM
LOCKED UP.
WHICH IS BOTH OUTRAGEOUS, AND
SOMETHING THE ASSISTANT STATE
A.G. WAS COMICALLY UNWILLING TO
DISCUSS.
>> DON'T HAVE ANY CONCERN THAT A
POLICE COMMISSIONER AND FORMER
PROSECUTOR SAY HE'S INNOCENT?
>> YOUR NAME IS HERE IN THE
COURT DOCUMENT.
WE ARE NOT EVEN ARGUING THAT
HE'S GUILTY.
JUST TECHNICALITIES THAT HE
MISSED HIS CHANCE TO PROPERLY
APPEAL.
YOU DON'T SEEM CONCERNED ABOUT
THIS.
DO YOU EVEN THINK HE'S GUILTY?
NO ANSWER?
YOU'RE SPENDING TAXPAYER MONEY
TO FIGHT THIS CASE.
YOU'RE KEEPING HIM LOCKED UP IN
PRISON.
IS THAT THE BEST USE OF TAXPAYER
MONEY?
>> Y'ALL HAVE A GOOD DAY, SIR.
>> John: WOW.
I'M CONFLICTED THERE.
OBVIOUSLY THAT MAN IS
A HEARTLESS MONSTER,
SMIRKING LIKE A WAX STATUE OF
PAUL GIAMATTI WHEN A MAN'S LIFE
IS AT STAKE.
BUT I DO RESPECT HIS ICE COLD
ATTEMPT AT IGNORING SMALL TALK
IN AN ELEVATOR.
ELEVATORS ARE FLYING COFFINS
THAT DEMAND TOTAL SILENCE FROM
EACH OF THEIR PALLBEARERS.
WE HAVE TO REACH AGREEMENT.
AND WHILE IT'S NOT IMPORTANT,
QUICK SHOUT-OUT TO THE GUY
WAVING AT THE CAMERA IN THE
BACKGROUND THERE.
HEY, BUDDY!
HEY, BET YOU HAD NO IDEA AT THE
TIME THAT YOUR WAVE WAS
UNDERSCORING A GROTESQUE FAILURE
OF OUR ENTIRE JUDICIAL SYSTEM!
BUT IT WAS!
IT WAS!
BYE!
BUT THAT ACTUALLY BRINGS US TO A
KEY POINT HERE, WHICH IS, WHEN
THE WHOLE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM IS GEARED TOWARD GETTING
A CONVICTION, IT HAS LITTLE
INTEREST IN SEEING ITS WORK
UNDONE.
SO, FOR INSTANCE, I MENTIONED
EARLIER THAT ONE OF THE FEW WAYS
TO GET A POST-CONVICTION APPEAL
IS TO ARGUE THAT YOU HAVE NEW
EVIDENCE TO INTRODUCE.
BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO BE ABLE TO
SHOW THAT IT WOULD HAVE CHANGED
THE OUTCOME AT YOUR TRIAL.
AND PROSECUTORS WILL FIGHT THAT
NOTION HARD.
WHEN ONE OF THE WEST MEMPHIS
THREE TRIED TO GET A NEW TRIAL,
BASED ON NEW EVIDENCE,
INCLUDING DNA, AN ASSISTANT
A.G. APPEARED BEFORE THE STATE'S
SUPREME COURT TO TRY AND TALK
THEM OUT OF CONSIDERING IT,
CITING THE HARM THAT COULD DO.
>> WHAT HARM IS THERE ALLOWING
HIM TO PRESENT ALL EVIDENCE?
>> THE HARM IS IN THE FINALITY
OF THE CRIMINAL JUDGMENT NOT
DEMONSTRATED TO HAVE ANY
CONSTITUTIONAL OR PROCEDURAL
DEFENSE AND JUST TRY IT AGAIN.
YOU'RE SUGGESTING.
AS THOUGH EVERY 15 OR 17 YEARS
OR SO WE OUGHT TO TRY CASES
AGAIN TO REESTABLISH GUILT.
THE HARM IS TO THE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEMS INTEREST IN
FINALITY.
>> John: HOLD ON.
THE HARM IS TO THE
"FINALITY?"
BUT IF THE FINAL DECISION COULD
BE WRONG, YOU SHOULD WANT TO
MAKE SURE YOU GOT IT RIGHT.
THERE'S A REASON LA LA LAND
DIDN'T JUST KEEP THE OSCAR AFTER
FAYE DUNAWAY AND WARREN BEATTY
SKIN SMILED THEIR WAY THROUGH
THAT MISTAKE.
BUT WHILE, THANKFULLY, THOSE
JUDGES WERE SKEPTICAL --
MANY DEFER TO PROSECUTORS.
THAT WAS THE CASE WITH EDWARD
LEE ELMORE, THE GUY WHOSE
INITIAL LAWYER WAS INSECURE
FOGHORN LEGHORN.
THE KEY EVIDENCE AGAINST HIM
WERE HAIRS AT A MURDER SCENE
THAT POLICE CLAIMED WERE OF
AFRICAN AMERICAN DESCENT.
BUT THERE WERE NO PHOTOS OF
THOSE HAIRS AT THE SCENE --
WHICH IS ALREADY SUSPICIOUS, AND
THE STATE LATER FOUND A BOX OF
EVIDENCE, PREVIOUSLY CLAIMED TO
BE MISSING BY POLICE, THAT
CONTAINED CAUCASIAN HAIR
RECOVERED FROM THE VICTIM'S BODY
DURING HER AUTOPSY.
BUT WHEN THE JUDGE WAS PRESENTED
WITH THIS PRETTY IMPORTANT NEW
INFORMATION, HE SIMPLY WASN'T
INTERESTED.
>> THIS IS A COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT CASE THAN WHAT THE
JURY HEARD.
THIS IS NOT ENOUGH TO GRANT
SOMEBODY A NEW TRIAL.
>> UNEXPECTEDLY RATHER THAN
ADJOURN AND READ THE FILINGS
BEFORE RULING, THE JUDGE ISSUED
HIS DECISION ON THE SPOT.
>> ALL MOTIONS ARE DENIED.
>> John: OH, IT GETS WORSE.
THAT JUDGE WENT ON TO SAY THAT,
OBVIOUSLY, THE EVIDENCE SHOULD
HAVE BEEN DISCLOSED TO COUNSEL,
BUT AS FAR AS IMPACTING THE
ORIGINAL VERDICT, I DON'T THINK
IT WOULD HAVE, AND IN CLOSING,
HE SAID, "GOOD LUCK TO
EVERYBODY, I'M OUT OF HERE."
WHICH IS A TERRIBLE WAY TO WRAP
UP A COURT PROCEEDING.
THE BEST, OF COURSE, BEING THIS:
>> THAT'S MY VERDICT AND THAT'S
HOW I SEE IT.
>> John: UNIMPEACHABLE.
BUT THE THING IS, A QUICK RULING
LIKE THAT ISN'T UNUSUAL.
MANY TIMES, APPEALS JUDGES WILL
JUST SIGN THE STATE PROSECUTOR'S
DOCUMENTS WITHOUT EVEN CHANGING
THE HEADING.
ONE STUDY LOOKED AT
POST-CONVICTION APPEALS IN THE
LARGEST COUNTY IN TEXAS AND
FOUND JUDGES ADOPTED THE
PROSECUTORS FINDINGS VERBATIM IN
96% OF THEIR RULINGS.
AND IF, AT THIS POINT, IT SEEMS
LIKE OUR WHOLE SYSTEM IS SET UP
TO PRESERVE ITS PROCESS -- EVEN
AT THE COST OF HUMAN LIFE --
WELL, DURING ONE DEATH ROW
APPEAL BEFORE THE MISSOURI
SUPREME COURT, FOR THIS MAN, JOE
AMRINE, ONE ASSISTANT A.G.
BASICALLY ADMITTED AS MUCH.
>> YOU ARE SUGGESTING IF WE
DON'T FIND THERE'S A
CONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION THEN
EVEN IF WE FIND THAT HE IS
INNOCENT, THAT HE SHOULD BE
EXECUTED?
>> THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.
>> IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE ARGUING?
>> John: HOLY SHIT.
YOU KNOW YOU'RE ON THE WRONG
SIDE OF AN ARGUMENT WHEN YOU'RE
ASKED, "SHOULD INNOCENT PEOPLE
BE EXECUTED?"
AND YOU SAY, "THAT'S CORRECT,
YOUR HONOR."
THAT'S THE KIND OF QUESTION THAT
HAS ONLY ONE RIGHT ANSWER, LIKE
"IS THE QUEEN DEAD?"
THE OBVIOUS ANSWER TO THAT
BEING, YES, SHE'S BEEN DEAD
SINCE 2007.
AND IT'S A GOOD THING.
IT'S A GOOD THING.
ORDER IN THE COURT.
AND SO FAR, EVERYTHING WE'VE
DISCUSSED HAS BEEN AT THE STATE
LEVEL.
BUT WHAT ABOUT IF YOU APPEAL UP
TO FEDERAL COURT?
WELL, IN SOME CASES, THEY DO
STEP IN TO OVERTURN EGREGIOUS
CONVICTIONS.
BUT AS THIS DEFENSE ATTORNEY
WILL TELL YOU, THAT IS VERY MUCH
THE EXCEPTION.
>> WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT THE
ROLE OF AN APPEALS COURT IS TO
GET IT RIGHT AND IF IT GETS IT
WRONG, THAT IT WILL BE FIXED
DOWN THE ROAD IN THE SYSTEM.
THAT'S THE BELIEF WE ALL HAVE IN
THE SYSTEM.
IF SOME COURT TO GETS IT WRONG,
ANOTHER COURT IS GOING TO COME
ALONG AND SET IT RIGHT.
FEDERAL COURTS CAN ONLY GRANT
RELIEF OF THE STATE COURT WAS
UNREASONABLY WRONG, SO WRONG
THAT NO OTHER JUDGE, NO OTHER
FAIR-MINDED JUDGE COULD POSSIBLY
AGREE.
THAT IS AN INCREDIBLY HIGH BAR.
>> John: YEAH, IT REALLY IS.
BECAUSE "NO FAIR-MINDED JUDGE
COULD POSSIBLY AGREE" IS A HIGH
BAR TO CLEAR.
REASONABLE PEOPLE DISAGREE ALL
THE TIME, ON ISSUES LIKE WHICH
WAY THE TOILET PAPER ROLL SHOULD
GO OR HOW A TORTOISE WOULD WEAR
CLOTHES.
IS IT OVER THE SHELL?
OR UNDER THE SHELL?
THERE'S A VIBRANT DISCUSSION TO
BE HAD HERE.
THE TRUTH IS FEDERAL COURTS'
HANDS ARE TIED PRETTY TIGHTLY,
BY SOMETHING CALLED AEDPA.
IT STANDS FOR THE ANTI-TERRORISM
AND EFFECTIVE DEATH PENALTY ACT,
- IT WAS PASSED IN THE 1990 - S IN
THE WAKE OF THE OKLAHOMA CITY
BOMBING AND AT THE TIME, THE
JUSTIFICATION FOR IT WAS WE
CAN'T LET TERRORISTS LIKE
TIMOTHY MCVEIGH, OR ANY
PRISONERS ON DEATH ROW, APPEAL
THEIR CASES ENDLESSLY.
HERE'S THE ARGUMENT IN A
NUTSHELL.
>> WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT MANY
SIT ON DEATH ROW FOR YEARS AND
YEARS AND YEARS WITH ACCESS TO
LIBRARIES AND COMPUTERS AND
EVERYTHING THEY COULD POSSIBLY
NEED SO THEY CONTINUE TO DRAG
OUT THE PROCESS QUESTION LIKE
THERE'S GOT TO BE IN END TO IT.
>> John: OKAY, THAT'S ACTUALLY
AN EVEN WORSE ARGUMENT THAN IT
SEEMS.
BECAUSE REMEMBER: THIS WAS 1995.
THE ONLY THINGS COMPUTERS WERE
GOOD FOR BACK THEN WERE
MINESWEEPER AND STILL IMAGES OF
CAL RIPKEN JR.
I'M GUESSING THAT IN 1995, IF
YOU TYPED "POSTCONVICTION HABEAS
- CORPUS APPEAL" INTO LYCOS. - COM
YOUR HARD DRIVE WOULD SPARK
INTO A FULL BLOWN HOUSE FIRE.
SO PRISONERS SOMETIMES HAVING
ACCESS TO COMPUTERS CLEARLY
WASN'T THE REAL PROBLEM HERE.
AND ALTHOUGH AEDPA SOUNDS LIKE
IT ONLY APPLIED TO TERRORISTS
AND DEATH ROW INMATES,
IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE.
AND IN ADDITION TO THAT HIGH BAR
THAT GUTTED FEDERAL REVIEW OF
STATE CONVICTIONS, IT ALSO
IMPOSED A STRICT ONE YEAR
DEADLINE TO FILE A FEDERAL
APPEAL ONCE YOUR CONVICTION IS
FINALIZED.
WHICH I KNOW MIGHT SOUND LIKE A
LOT OF TIME, BUT IT REALLY
ISN'T.
A FEDERAL APPEAL IS A MASSIVE
UNDERTAKING, OFTEN INVOLVING
DOING NEW RESEARCH, SPEAKING TO
EXPERTS, WITNESSES, PREVIOUS
ATTORNEYS AND INVESTIGATORS,
ONE YEAR CAN NOT BE ENOUGH, AS
PROVEN BY THE FACT THAT,
POST-AEDPA, THE DEADLINE HAD
BEEN MISSED AT LEAST EIGHTY
TIMES IN DEATH ROW CASES.
EIGHTY TIMES, DEATH-ROW
PRISONERS WENT TO THE TROUBLE OF
FILING AN APPEAL, ONLY TO BE
TOLD, "SORRY, TOO LATE, IT
DOESN'T COUNT."
AND EVEN WHEN FILINGS DO COME IN
ON TIME, THAT HIGH BAR MEANS
THEY'RE LESS LIKELY TO BE
SUCCESSFUL TO THE POINT THAT
WHILE, BEFORE AEDPA, 40% OF
DEATH ROW DEFENDANTS SUCCEEDED
IN GETTING THEIR VERDICT OR
SENTENCE OVERTURNED IN FEDERAL
COURT, A DECADE AFTER IT, THAT
RATE HAD DROPPED TO 10%.
AND I WILL SAY THIS.
THERE WAS ONE SENATOR WHO SAW
ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS WITH AEDPA
PRETTY CLEARLY, AND WARNED
AGAINST WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN.
>> THIS JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
IN MY VIEW, MR. PRESIDENT.
AS A PRACTICAL MATTER OR MATTER
OF PRINCIPLE.
WE SHOULD NOT IN OUR HASTE TO
HURRY UP EXECUTION LUCITE TO OUR
COMMITMENT TO CONSTITUTIONAL
VALUES.
WE SHOULD NOT ENDORSE PROPOSALS
THAT INCREASE THE CHANCE THAT
WERE EXECUTION IS IMMINENT THAT
AN INNOCENT PERSON THE EXECUTED.
WE SHOULD NOT SACRIFICE
CERTAINTY IN THE NAME OF SPEED
OR FAIRNESS IN THE NAME OF
VENGEANCE.
>> John: YEAH!
PRETTY GOOD.
I KNOW IT'S WEIRD TO SEE JOE
BIDEN ACTUALLY ON THE RIGHT SIDE
OF A CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUE IN
THE NINETIES, IT'S LIKE WATCHING
HOME MOVIES AND SEEING YOUR
BITTERLY DIVORCED PARENTS
PASSIONATELY FRENCHING EACH
OTHER.
IT'S JUST HARD TO IMAGINE A
WORLD WHERE THAT EVER HAPPENED.
SO ENJOY THAT FOR JUST A MOMENT.
ARE YOU ENJOYING IT?
I REALLY HOPE YOU ARE.
BECAUSE NOW I SHOULD TELL YOU
THAT BIDEN ACTUALLY VOTED FOR
THE BILL IN THE END.
YOU DON'T GET TO BE SURPRISED.
THE GUY IS WHO HE IS.
AND THAT BRINGS US TO TODAY.
WHERE MANY WRONGFULLY CONVICTED
PEOPLE ARE STILL LOCKED UP, WITH
A RACIALLY DISPROPORTIONATE
IMPACT.
INNOCENT BLACK PEOPLE
ARE ABOUT SEVEN TIMES MORE
LIKELY TO BE CONVICTED OF MURDER
THAN INNOCENT WHITE PEOPLE.
AND AT THE SAME TIME, THOSE WHO
ACTUALLY COMMITTED THE CRIMES
ARE STILL AT LARGE, AS THE
PHILLY D.A. POINTS OUT.
>> JUSTICE MEANS THAT YOU TRY TO
DO THINGS THAT ARE PROPORTIONAL
AND YOU TRY TO DO THINGS THAT
ARE ACCURATE.
TRYING TO DO THINGS THAT ARE
ACCURATE, THAT MEANS YOU DO NOT
WANT THE GUILTY PERSON WHO GOT
AWAY TO CONTINUE TO GET AWAY AND
YOU ALSO DON'T WANT THE INNOCENT
PERSON TO STAY IN JAIL.
THAT AIN'T RIGHT.
I MEAN.
DUH.
>> John: YEAH, HE'S RIGHT.
FUCKING DUH!
YOU'VE PROBABLY ALREADY BEEN
SCREAMING IT AT YOUR TV FOR THE
LAST 15 MINUTES, ALONG WITH
"TALK SLOWER!"
AND "THIS GUY'S A FURRY, RIGHT?"
THAT'S MY BUSINESS.
BUT I WILL SAY, THE CLUES ARE
ALL THERE.
BUT AGAIN: HE'S RIGHT.
WE KNOW PROSECUTORS ARE
FALLIBLE, EVEN WHEN THE STAKES
ARE INCREDIBLY HIGH.
AND IF YOU WANT TO SEE THIS
WHOLE MADDENING SYSTEM IN ONE
STORY, CONSIDER THE CASE OF
MELISSA LUCIO.
SHE WENT THROUGH THE MOST
HORRIFIC THING IMAGINABLE --
THE DEATH OF HER TWO-YEAR-OLD
DAUGHTER AFTER A FALL DOWN
A FLIGHT OF STAIRS.
BUT THE POLICE SUSPECTED FOUL
PLAY, AND OVER THE COURSE OF A
MARATHON INTERROGATION THE NIGHT
OF HER DAUGHTER'S DEATH, LASTING
UNTIL 3:00 IN THE MORNING, THEY
PUSHED HER TO CONFESS TO MURDER.
>> BASICALLY WHAT THEY WERE
DOING AND IS THEY WERE TRYING TO
MAKE ME ADMIT THAT I WAS THE ONE
RESPONSIBLE FOR HER FALL.
AND I KEPT TELLING THEM THAT I
HADN'T HURT MY DAUGHTER.
THEY WERE VERY VULGAR.
VERY ROUGH.
VERY PERSISTENT.
>> THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO SET IT
STRAIGHT.
RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE A
COLD-BLOODED KILLER.
ARE YOU A COLD-BLOODED KILLER OR
FRUSTRATED MOTHER?
WE KNOW SOMEBODY DID IT.
WE ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO
DID IT.
>> IT HAPPENS.
WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.
WE ALL GET UPSET.
YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
>> John: I KNOW THAT'S UPSETTING
TO WATCH, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO
SEE JUST HOW AGGRESSIVE AND
MANIPULATIVE THE SYSTEM CAN BE
IN SOMEONE'S MOST VULNERABLE
MOMENTS THAT LEAD TO THINGS LIKE
FALSE CONFESSIONS.
BECAUSE AFTER ALL THAT, SHE TOLD
THOSE OFFICERS WHAT THEY WANTED
TO HEAR, THAT SHE HAD, "IN THE
PAST," SPANKED HER DAUGHTER.
THE STATE ARGUED TO THE JURY
THAT THAT COUNTED AS A MURDER
CONFESSION.
AND SHE WAS CONVICTED IN A TRIAL
WHERE NOT ONLY DID THE
PROSECUTION KEEP THE JURY FROM
HEARING PSYCHOLOGIST'S TESTIMONY
THAT COULD SPEAK TO HER MENTAL
STATE AT THE TIME, BUT HER OWN
DEFENSE ATTORNEY DECIDED NOT TO
CALL HER OTHER CHILDREN TO THE
STAND, WHO'D HAVE TESTIFIED THEY
NEVER WITNESSED ANY PHYSICAL
ABUSE FROM HER.
AND YET, WHEN SHE TRIED TO
APPEAL HER CONVICTION TO STATE
COURT, THE JUDGE WAS APPARENTLY
IN SUCH A HURRY, HE INITIALLY
TRIED TO RULE FOR THE
PROSECUTION BEFORE THE DEFENSE
HAD EVEN FILED THEIR RESPONSE.
ONCE IT GOT TO FEDERAL COURT, A
SPLIT RULING DENIED HER APPEAL,
BUT EVEN THE JUDGES WHO RULED
AGAINST HER ADMITTED, "THERE WAS
EXPERT TESTIMONY THAT, IF JURORS
HAD ONLY HEARD IT, COULD HAVE
IMPACTED THE VERDICT, GOING ON
TO ACKNOWLEDGE, "WE ARE ALL,
THOUGH, WORKING WITHIN THE
CONSTRAINTS OF AEDPA."
MELISSA LUCIO IS NOW SCHEDULED
TO BE EXECUTED ON APRIL 27.
NEXT MONTH.
AND TO HEAR HER PROSECUTOR TELL
IT, THERE'S ONLY ONE PERSON TO
BLAME FOR THAT.
>> SHE HAS NOBODY TO BLAME BUT
HERSELF.
SHE HAS NOBODY TO BLAME BUT
HERSELF.
PEOPLE SAY WELL, SHE SHOULDN'T
BE THERE.
SHE SHOULDN'T BE THERE.
SHE PUT HERSELF THERE.
WHO'S FAULT IS IT?
WHO'S FAULT IS IT THAT SHE'S
THERE IF IT'S NOT HERS?
>> John: I MEAN...
I CAN TAKE A CRACK AT
THAT ANSWER IF YOU WANT.
IT STARTS WITH "NOT HERS," AND
WHILE IT ISN'T A COMPLETE LIST,
IT INCLUDES THE COPS WHO
BADGERED HER, THE TEXANS WHO
VOTED FOR A GOVERNOR WHO SEEMS
UNWILLING TO INTERVENE, TED
CRUZ -- I'M ASSUMING, SOMEHOW,
THE 91 SENATORS WHO VOTED FOR
AEDPA IN 1996, HAMMURABI FOR
CODIFYING CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IN
ANCIENT BABYLON, AND YOU FOR
PROSECUTING BASED ON A
CONFESSION THAT WASN'T EVEN A
CONFESSION, YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE.
SO WITH A SYSTEM SO
FUNDAMENTALLY FUCKED,
WHAT DO WE DO?
WELL, IMMEDIATELY WE CAN GET RID
OF AEDPA.
AND WE SHOULD DO THAT AS SOON AS
POSSIBLE, AS THE WILL COULD BE
THERE CONSIDERING HOW AGAINST IT
BIDEN ONCE BRIEFLY WAS.
IN ADDITION, WE SHOULD CONTINUE
TO ADDRESS ALL THE MANY FACTORS
THAT LEAD TO WRONGFUL
CONVICTIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
AND WHEN THEY DO HAPPEN, WE NEED
TO MAKE SURE WE'VE ELECTED
PROSECUTORS WHO'LL UNDERTAKE
CONVICTION INTEGRITY REVIEWS,
AND GOVERNORS WHO'LL USE THEIR
PARDON POWER TO UNDO THE STATE'S
MISTAKES.
WE NEED TO MAKE THIS A PRIORITY,
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE A
SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE CAN BE
WRONGLY CONVICTED WITH BAD
DEFENSE ATTORNEYS AND LEFT TO
FIGHT IN A CONVOLUTED APPEALS
SYSTEM WITH LITTLE TO NO HELP.
AT WHICH POINT, IT REALLY FEELS
LIKE OUR SYSTEM IS ESSENTIALLY
"GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN RICH OR
LUCKY."
AND THAT HAS TO CHANGE, BECAUSE
WE CAN'T KEEP LETTING THE MOST
VULNERABLE BE CASUALTIES OF A
SYSTEM THAT CARES MORE ABOUT
QUICK AND FINAL DECISIONS THAN
ACTUALLY CORRECT ONES.
THAT'S MY VERDICT,
AND THAT'S HOW I SEE IT.
CLOMP CLOMP.
MOTHERFUCKERS.
CLOMP CLOMP.
AND NOW THIS.
>> Announcer: NOW GREAT
MOMENTS IN STEVE HARVEY'S
JURISPRUDENCE.
>> I'M ABOUT TO HEAR A SERIES OF
UNBELIEVABLE STATEMENTS.
WE ARE ARGUING ABOUT ASS?
I'M SORRY.
THIS IS NOT FUNNY.
>> NO, IT'S NOT.
>> IT'S REALLY NOT FUNNY.
YOU ARE WAY MORE STUPID THAN I
THOUGHT YOU WERE.
LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING.
YOU AIN'T GOING TO GET NOBODY
FINER THAN THAT.
YOU CAN'T OBJECT BECAUSE YOU'RE
NOT A LAWYER.
IS THAT A PAIR OF HANDCUFFS WITH
CORN ON THE COB WITH A CONDOM ON
IT?
YOU ARE FIXING TO HAVE ONE OF A
PARTY.
THAT'S THE WAY I SEE IT.
>> John: THAT'S OUR SHOW.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.
SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.