♪ ♪
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
>> John: WELCOME, WELCOME,
WELCOME TO "LAST WEEK TONIGHT!"
I'M JOHN OLIVER.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
IT'S BEEN A BUSY WEEK FROM
MASSIVE PROTESTS STILL ONGOING
IN IRAN, TO THE FACT TOM BRADY
SUDDENLY HAS ONE LESS RING.
BUT WE'RE GOING TO START IN THE
UK, WHERE THERE'S BEEN A MAJOR
CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP.
>> AFTER JUST 45 DAYS ON THE
JOB, LIZ TRUSS IS OUT.
HER VERY BRIEF STINT AT DOWNING
STREET CHAOTIC FROM THE START.
THIS MEME TAKING OVER THE
INTERNET, THE CHALLENGE FROM A
TABLOID HERE WHICH WILL LAST
LONGER, THIS HEAD OF ICEBERG
LETTUCE OR LIZ TRUSS?
THERE WAS EVEN A LETTUCE LIVE
STREAM, AND LAST NIGHT IT WAS
PROJECTED ON THE WALLS OF
PARLIAMENT THE VICTORIOUS HEAD
OF LETTUCE.
>> John: PRETTY GOOD!
FROM THE CHALLENGE ITSELF, TO
THE PHRASE "VICTORIOUS HEAD OF
LETTUCE," TO THE GOOGLY EYES AND
THE ADORABLE BLONDE BOB, EVERY
STEP WAS WELL THOUGHT OUT AND
BEAUTIFULLY EXECUTED.
HONESTLY, FROM ONE LEAF
VEGETABLE LOVER TO ANOTHER?
YOU HAVE MY RESPECT.
AND INCREDIBLY, THE RUN-UP TO
ALL THAT WAS EVEN MORE CHAOTIC.
VERY BASICALLY, LIZ TRUSS'S
CHANCELLOR WAS FIRED, BECOMING
THE SECOND-SHORTEST-SERVING
CHANCELLOR IN BRITISH HISTORY,
AFTER THIS GUY, THOUGH AT LEAST
HE HAD THE GOOD EXCUSE OF
"HE DIED."
THEN HER HOME SECRETARY, SUELLA
BRAVERMAN, WAS FORCED TO RESIGN
AFTER BREACHING SECURITY
PROCEDURES BY USING HER PERSONAL
EMAIL TO SEND A GOVERNMENT
DOCUMENT.
THEN HER OWN PARTY TORE ITSELF
APART IN A CHAOTIC VOTE ON
FRACKING, PROMPTING ONE PARTY
LEADER TO GIVE AN INCREDIBLE
QUOTE, PERHAPS BEST DELIVERED BY
THIS GERMAN NEWS OUTLET.
AND IF YOU DON'T SPEAK GERMAN,
DON'T WORRY -- THEY SWITCH TO
ENGLISH FOR THE IMPORTANT PART.
>> [SPEAKING NON-ENGLISH
LANGUAGE]
I'M FUCKING FURIOUS AND I DON'T
FUCKING CARE ANYMORE.
>> John: PERFECT.
AND SO MUCH BETTER WITH A GERMAN
ACCENT WHICH MAKES EVERYTHING
SOUND A THOUSAND TIMES MEANER.
IF SOMEONE SAID TO YOU "NICE
OUTFIT," YOU'D BE DELIGHTED.
BUT IF THEY SAID "NICE OUTFIT,"
YOU WOULD KILL YOURSELF.
AT THAT POINT, ALL DECORUM WAS
BASICALLY GONE.
PERHAPS THE NADIR WAS AFTER THIS
CONTENTIOUS INTERVIEW BETWEEN A
REPORTER AT DOWNING STREET, AND
MP STEVE BAKER, ONE OF THE LAST
TRUSS SUPPORTERS.
THE REPORTER'S MIC WAS LEFT ON
AFTER THE INTERVIEW HAD ENDED,
AND YOU COULD HEAR HIM RESPOND
TO BAKER CLAIMING HE'D ASKED A
STUPID QUESTION.
>> THANKS A LOT, STEVE.
IT WASN'T A STUPID QUESTION,
STEVE, YOU KNOW IT.
I'M VERY HAPPY TO GO UP AGAINST
YOU ON TRUSS ANY DAY.
[LAUGHS]
WHAT A CUNT.
>> John: NOW, I KNOW THAT SOUNDS
BAD TO AMERICAN EARS.
BUT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND --
THERE'S NOTHING MORE BRITISH
THAN POLITELY THANKING SOMEONE
FOR A DISAGREEMENT, THEN
CHEERILY CALLING THEM A CUNT.
IT WASN'T IN THE U.S. VERSION,
BUT IT IS HOW "PADDINGTON 2"
ENDS.
SO LONG STORY SHORT: TRUSS IS
OUT, AND THIS MAN, RISHI SUNAK,
IS IN.
AND HE INHERITS AN EVEN BIGGER
MESS THAN THE ONE TRUSS DID.
BECAUSE HE'S ABOUT TO MAKE
SEVERE CUTS TO PUBLIC SPENDING
-- WHICH WILL BE ESPECIALLY
DIFFICULT TO TAKE COMING FROM
HIM, BECAUSE HE'S INCREDIBLY
WEALTHY.
>> SUNAK RANKS AMONG THE U.K.'S
RICHEST AND HAS BEEN LABELED OUT
OF TOUCH WITH ORDINARY VOTERS.
THIS 2001 BBC DOCUMENTARY CLIP
WHEN HE WAS STILL AT UNIVERSITY
LATER WENT VIRAL AND IT DIDN'T
HELP.
>> I HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE, YOU
KNOW, WORKING CLASS, BUT --
WELL, NOT WORKING CLASS, BUT I
MIX AND MATCH AND THEN I GO TO
SEE KIDS FROM AN INNER CITY
STATE SCHOOL AND TELL THEM, YOU
KNOW, TO APPLY TO OXFORD.
>> John: AH, GREAT STRATEGY.
"MY ELITE EDUCATION HAS TAUGHT
ME THAT YOU'RE MERE VICTIMS OF A
COMPLEX WEB OF SYSTEMIC
INEQUITY, BUT ALSO...
WHAT IF YOU JUST WEREN'T?"
AND IT'S NOT LIKE SUNAK'S GOTTEN
MUCH BETTER AT DISPLAYING A
COMMON TOUCH SINCE THEN -- HE
ONCE TRIED TO PROMOTE A CUT IN
FUEL PRICES BY BEING
PHOTOGRAPHED FILLING UP A CAR
THAT, IT TURNED OUT, WASN'T HIS.
WHICH, TO BE FAIR, I COULD'VE
TOLD YOU STRAIGHTAWAY.
THAT CAR IS A BURGUNDY KIA RIO.
THE CLOSEST RISHI WOULD GET TO A
CAR LIKE THAT IS TO TELL IT TO
CONSIDER BECOMING A ROLLS ROYCE.
AND HIS TENURE AS PRIME MINISTER
IS ALREADY OFF TO A QUESTIONABLE
START, GIVEN ONE OF HIS FIRST
MOVES WAS TO RE-APPOINT SUELLA
BRAVERMAN AS HOME SECRETARY,
DESPITE THE FACT, REMEMBER,
SHE'D BEEN FORCED OUT OF THAT
JOB IN DISGRACE JUST SIX DAYS
PREVIOUSLY.
AND SHE IS A HARD-LINER, KNOWN
FOR BOTH HER ANTI-IMMIGRATION
STANCES, AND STATEMENTS LIKE
THIS, ON UK WELFARE RECIPIENTS.
>> THERE IS STILL A STUBBORN
CORE OF OUR POPULATION THAT SEES
WELFARE AS THE GO-TO OPTION AND
IS NOT MOTIVATED FOR FINANCIAL
OR OTHER REASONS TO GET OUT
THERE AND WORK.
AND I THINK THE STICK -- WE'VE
GOT WE'VE GOT LOTS OF CARROTS,
WE'VE GOT LOTS OF CARROTS TO GET
PEOPLE INTO WORK -- BUT WE'VE
GOT TO ACTUALLY ADD MORE
CONDITIONALITY TO THE WAY WE
ADMINISTER WELFARE AND MORE -- A
BIT MORE STICK TO ENSURE THAT IT
ACTUALLY PAYS FOR PEOPLE TO GET
OFF WELFARE.
>> John: WOW.
THERE'S SO MUCH WRONG WITH THAT,
BUT IF YOU WANT A PORTION OF THE
POPULATION TO BELIEVE YOU
RESPECT THEM, MAYBE DON'T REFER
TO THEM AS HORSES.
AND THAT'S COMING FROM ME,
SOMEONE WHO, ARGUABLY, RESPECTS
HORSES TOO MUCH.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE YOU FEEL
GOOD.
BUT ULTIMATELY, SUNAK'S
INCREDIBLY LUCKY THAT HE'S
FOLLOWING LIZ TRUSS.
BECAUSE THE BAR IS SO LOW.
ALL HE REALLY HAS TO DO IS NOT
PERSONALLY THROW THE ECONOMY
INTO A TAILSPIN, AND DELIVER A
SPEECH WITHOUT LEAVING A WEIRD
PAUSE FOR CLAPTER AFTER SAYING
"PORK MARKETS."
BUT HE'S NOT EVEN OFF TO A GOOD
START THERE, BECAUSE THIS WAS
HOW HE ENDED HIS FIRST PUBLIC
ADDRESS.
>> I WILL WORK DAY-IN, DAY-OUT,
TO DELIVER FOR THE BRITISH
PEOPLE.
[LAUGHTER]
>> John: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
HE LOOKS LIKE HE WAS READING A
TELEPROMPTER THAT MALFUNCTIONED
BY REPLACING HIS SPEECH WITH THE
COMMAND "HAVE A PANIC ATTACK,
NOW."
DESPITE SUNAK'S MANY
SHORTCOMINGS, HE'LL PROBABLY
LAST LONGER THAN LIZ TRUSS.
BUT MAYBE NOT MUCH LONGER.
BECAUSE THE BRITISH PEOPLE ARE
JUSTIFIABLY -- TO QUOTE MY NEW
FAVORITE BROADCASTER -- "FUCKING
FURIOUS AND THEY DON'T FUCKING
CARE ANYMORE."
AND NOW THIS.
>> Announcer: AND NOW,
UNNECESSARY FULL DISCLOSURE.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, I'M NOT A
FINANCE GUY.
HAVEN'T STUDIED IT, DON'T
MUCH UNDERSTAND IT.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, I WAS A VERY
AMATEUR NATIONAL ANTHEM SINGER.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, I WAS A
WAITER AT THE OLIVE GARDEN.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, I'VE ALWAYS
WANTED A BOSTON WHALER.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, I HAD A QTIP
IN MY EAR LAST NIGHT.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, THE OYSTERS
WERE NOT FROM THE EAST RIVER.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, I'M A COOKIE
GUY.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, GO GATERS.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, NOT THE BEST
JOB I'VE HAD.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE, THERE'S AN
ACTION FIGURE OF ME IN MY OFFICE
MADE OUT OF FONDANT.
♪ ♪
[LAUGHTER]
>> John: MOVING ON.
OUR MAIN STORY TONIGHT CONCERNS
CRIME.
BATMAN'S ADVERSARY, AND ALSO,
HIS KINK.
YOU THINK SOMEONE DRESSES IN A
RUBBER SUIT JUST TO AVENGE
THEIR PARENTS?
HE'S A FURRY WITH A GADGET BELT.
GROW UP.
WITH THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS FAST
APPROACHING, "TOUGH ON CRIME"
RHETORIC HAS BEEN A KEY FEATURE
OF REPUBLICAN ATTACK ADS, OFTEN
HIGHLIGHTING ONE POLICY IN
PARTICULAR: BAIL REFORM.
>> DO YOU FEEL SAFE?
MANDELA BARNES WOULD ELIMINATE
CASH BAIL, SETTING ACCUSED
CRIMINALS FREE INTO THE
COMMUNITY BEFORE TRIAL.
>> LANDSMAN WANTS TO END CASH
BAIL, PUTTING DANGEROUS
CRIMINALS BACK ON THE STREETS.
>> BEASLEY SUPPORTS ENDING CASH
BAIL, LETTING CRIMINALS OUT OF
JAIL.
>> USING CASHLESS BAILS AND HIS
OWN LAWLESS POLICIES, HE PUT
CRIMINALS BACK ON THE STREETS
AND TURNED NEIGHBORHOODS INTO
DANGER ZONES.
>> John: OKAY, OF COURSE
EVERYTHING SEEMS SCARIER IF YOU
END IT WITH A SHOT OF A BODY
BAG.
FOR INSTANCE, DOC MCSTUFFINS?
NOT A SCARY SHOW.
BUT IF THEY DID AN EPISODE SET
IN THE MCSTUFFINS MORGUE, YOUR
KID'S GOING TO HAVE NIGHTMARES
FOR A WHILE.
THESE ATTACK ADS COME AT A
CRITICAL JUNCTURE FOR THE
MOVEMENT TO REDUCE THE USE OF
CASH BAIL.
BECAUSE SINCE 2011 AT LEAST 19
STATES AND DOZENS OF LOCAL
JURISDICTIONS HAVE ADOPTED
BAIL-REFORM POLICIES.
BUT MANY PLACES HAVE RECENTLY
BEGUN ROLLING BACK THOSE REFORMS
BECAUSE AMID THE RECENT SPIKE
IN CERTAIN CATEGORIES OF CRIME,
CRITICS ARE POINTING AT BAIL
REFORM AS THE MAJOR CAUSE OF IT.
>> LIBERAL LAWMAKERS ENDED THE
BAIL FOR MOST OFFENSES.
THEY CREATED A REVOLVING DOOR OF
CRIMINALITY.
>> IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET
ARRESTED AND THEN PUT IN JAIL
UNLESS YOU KILL SOMEBODY.
>> IT IS BAFFLING TO ME THAT WE
HAVE POLITICIANS THAT AREN'T
SUPPORTING POLICIES THAT ARE
GONNA MAKE THINGS BETTER.
IN FACT, THEY'RE DOING THE
OPPOSITE, AND STILL SUPPORTING
BAIL REFORM AND DEFUNDING THE
POLICE.
>> THERE'S A CORRELATION BETWEEN
THE BAIL REFORM AND WHAT'S
HAPPENING IN OUR CITY.
>> IT SEEMS SO CLEAR THAT IT IS,
AND TO DESTROY THE COUNTRY'S
FINEST POLICE DEPARTMENT IS A
CRIME, I THINK, ON ITS OWN.
>> John: WOW.
I'M HONESTLY SURPRISED ANYTHING
SEEMS CLEAR TO A MAN WITH
RESTING CONCUSSION FACE.
HE LOOKS LIKE HE'S STUDYING A
FULL BODY MIRROR, DESPERATELY
TRYING TO FIND HIS PENIS.
IT'S TO THE POINT WHERE ANY
CRIME MENTIONED ON FOX NEWS GETS
LINKED TO BAIL REFORM, WHETHER
IT'S RELEVANT OR NOT.
EVEN AFTER NANCY PELOSI'S
HUSBAND WAS ATTACKED WITH A
HAMMER ON FRIDAY MORNING -- BY
SOMEONE WHO WAS NOT OUT ON BAIL
-- THEY HAD A REPUBLICAN
CONGRESSMAN ON TO SAY THIS.
>> WHEN YOU LET DANGEROUS
CRIMINALS OUT ON THE STREETS
WITH BAIL AND NOT PUT THEM IN
PRISON, YOU'RE ASKING FOR THIS
INCIDENT TO HAPPEN.
>> John: NOW HE'S WRONG ABOUT A
FEW THINGS THERE -- AGAIN, THE
SUSPECT WASN'T OUT ON BAIL.
ALSO, NO ONE GETS BAILED OUT OF
PRISON, THAT'S WHERE CONVICTED
PEOPLE GO.
AND FINALLY, CHOOSING A NARROW
TIE KNOT WHEN YOUR HEAD'S THAT
BIG MAKES IT LOOK LIKE A
BIRTHDAY BALLOON SAILING OVER
THE CAPITOL DOME.
THAT'S THREE BIG MISTAKES FROM
THAT VERY GRUMPY BALLOON.
BUT GIVEN THAT YOU'RE HEARING
MISLEADING ATTACKS LIKE THAT
EVERYWHERE RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A
REAL CHANCE OF ALL THE PROGRESS
WE'VE MADE BEING UNDONE.
SO TONIGHT, LET'S LOOK AT BAIL
REFORM.
AND THIS IS ACTUALLY OUR SECOND
STORY ON BAIL, WE FIRST
COVERED IT BACK IN 2015.
BUT MAYBE YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT
EPISODE BECAUSE YOU WERE TOO
BUSY WATCHING THE 69TH ANNUAL
TONY AWARDS AIRING THE SAME
NIGHT WHERE -- AND THIS IS TRUE
-- KRISTIN CHENOWTH AND ALAN
CUMMING OPENED THE SHOW BY
HIGHLIGHTING ONE PARTICULAR
CELEBRITY IN THE AUDIENCE.
>> AND THE PRODUCER OF FINDING
NEVERLAND: HARVEY WEINSTEIN.
>> ♪ HEEEEERE! ♪
[APPLAUSE]
♪ SMILE THOUGH YOUR HEART IS
ACHING ♪
♪ SMILE EVEN THOUGH IT'S
BREAKING ♪
♪ YOU'LL FIND THAT LIFE IS STILL
WORTHWHILE ♪
♪ IF YOU JUST COUNT YOUR OVER A
MILLION DOLLAR A WEEK BOX OFFICE
RECEIPTS FOR THE LAST THREE
MONTHS ♪
♪ SMIIIILE! ♪
>> John: YEAH, MY POINT IS, IT'S
BEEN A MINUTE SINCE THEN.
SO IF YOU MISSED OUR FIRST
STORY, HERE'S A BRIEF RECAP: IF
YOU'RE ARRESTED, IN ORDER TO BE
RELEASED AWAITING TRIAL, YOU'RE
OFTEN REQUIRED TO LEAVE A
CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY, OR
"BAIL," WITH THE COURT, AS
COLLATERAL, WITH THE IDEA THAT
IT'LL ENSURE YOU RETURN.
AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF ISSUES
WITH THIS SYSTEM -- STARTING
WITH THE FACT THAT BAIL HEARINGS
CAN BE ARBITRARY, AT BEST.
BECAUSE WHILE YOU MIGHT ASSUME A
JUDGE WOULD CAREFULLY WEIGH
SOMEONE'S CHARGES AND
CIRCUMSTANCES TO DECIDE WHETHER
THERE'S ANY REASON THEY
SHOULDN'T BE RELEASED, THE
REALITY CAN LOOK VERY DIFFERENT.
TAKE THIS HEARING IN DALLAS.
WE'RE GOING TO BLEEP THE
PERSON'S LAST NAME, BUT I'M
GOING TO SHOW YOU HER HEARING IN
ITS ENTIRETY.
>> PENNY [BLEEP], YOU'RE HERE ON
STATE JAIL FELONY, THEFT WITH
PREVIOUS CONVICTION, BOND IS
$5000.
>> John: YEAH, THAT'S IT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT SHOULD
TAKE TO PUT A PRICE ON SOMEONE'S
FREEDOM, BUT IT PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T FIT NEATLY INTO AN
INSTAGRAM STORY.
AND THAT'S NOT AN OUTLIER.
OVERALL, IT'S COMMON FOR BAIL
HEARINGS TO LAST ONLY A FEW
MINUTES, WITH NO DEFENSE COUNSEL
PRESENT.
AND THEY CAN BE CONDUCTED WITH
INCREDIBLE PETTINESS.
JUST WATCH THIS HEARING FROM
2016, IN HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS,
WHERE A WOMAN HAD BEEN CHARGED
WITH A MISDEMEANOR OF POSSESSING
LESS THAN TWO OUNCES OF
MARIJUANA.
>> THERE'S PROBABLE CAUSE.
BOND IS $1000.
ARE YOU REQUESTING A COURT
APPOINTED LAWYER?
>> I GUESS, SURE.
>> GIVE ME A "YES" OR "NO."
>> YEAH.
>> GIVE ME A "YES" OR "NO."
>> YEAH.
>> I ASKED A QUESTION THAT CALLS
FOR A "YES" OR A "NO," I DON'T
EXPECT ANYTHING BUT A "YES" OR A
"NO."
NOT A MM-HMM, MAYBE SO, OR A
YELL, OR ANYTHING ELSE --
>> I SAID "YEAH."
>> OR SOMETHING -- I HEARD WHAT
YOU SAID.
YOUR BOND JUST WENT UP TO $2000.
>> John: WOW.
FIRST, FUCK OFF ALL THE WAY OFF.
SECOND, "YEAH" MEANS YES.
IT'S NOT LIKE SHE GAVE YOU A
THUMBS UP AND WINKED.
YOU KNEW WHAT SHE MEANT AND YOU
JUST WANTED TO BE A DICK.
AND IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD WHATEVER
BAIL A SASSY JUDGE FELT LIKE
DISHING OUT, YOU MIGHT BE FORCED
TO TURN TO A BAIL BONDSMAN.
THE WAY THEIR BUSINESS WORKS IS,
THEY'LL POST YOUR BAIL FOR YOU,
IN EXCHANGE FOR A FEE THAT'S
NORMALLY AROUND TEN PERCENT OF
IT -- MONEY, BY THE WAY, YOU
DON'T GET BACK, NO MATTER WHAT
THE OUTCOME OF YOUR CASE.
IT'S A LUCRATIVE BUSINESS, WHICH
RAKES IN ABOUT "$2 BILLION
DOLLARS" PER YEAR, ALMOST NONE
OF WHICH GOES INTO THEIR
SPENDING ON ADS LIKE THESE.
>> THEY SAY I BROKE THE LAW,
POLICE ARE ON MY TAIL.
LOOKS LIKE I'M GOING TO THE
COUNTY JAIL.
>> GOTTA GO, GOTTA GO, CALL
GOTTA GO BAIL BONDS.
>> BAD BOYS BAIL BONDS IS WHO I
CALL, THEIR COURTESY AND SERVICE
TOP THEM ALL, THEY WORKED IT ALL
OUT WITH A CALL ON THE PHONE AND
BEFORE I EVEN KNEW IT I WAS FREE
TO ROAM.
>> LIPSTICK BAIL BONDS!
KISS JAIL GOODBYE!
>> John: YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THE
DIRECTION I WOULD'VE TAKEN FOR
THE BARBIE MOVIE, BUT I TRUST
GRETA GERWIG'S VISION.
ALTHOUGH -- CREDIT TO ALL THREE
SONGWRITERS THERE -- YOU CAN
FIND THOSE TRACKS ON "NOW THAT'S
WHAT I CALL SONGS WRITTEN BY THE
NEPHEW OF A GUY WHO OWNS A BAIL
BOND AGENCY VOLUME 25" BUT IF
YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY A BAIL
BONDSMAN TO GET YOU OUT, YOU ARE
STUCK.
AND MANY, MANY PEOPLE ARE IN
THAT SITUATION, WHICH HAS LED TO
A TRULY STAGGERING STATISTIC.
>> THIS GRAPH SHOWS LOCAL JAIL
INMATES IN THE UNITED STATES.
IN THE PAST 20 YEARS, THAT
POPULATION HAS SHOT WAY UP, AND
THERE'S SOMETHING SURPRISING
ABOUT THAT RISE.
YOU CAN SEE IT ONLY IF YOU LOOK
AT INMATES WITH CONVICTIONS.
AROUND 1999 THAT POPULATION
LEVELED OFF, MEANING MOST OF THE
RISE CAME FROM THIS GROUP.
NON-CONVICTED PRISONERS.
EVERY DAY IN THE U.S. NEARLY
HALF A MILLION PEOPLE SITTING IN
LOCAL JAILS HAVEN'T BEEN
CONVICTED OF ANYTHING.
>> John: IT'S TRUE.
IN FACT, RIGHT NOW, ROUGHLY
TWO-THIRDS OF OUR JAIL
POPULATION ON ANY GIVEN DAY ARE
PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN
CONVICTED OF A CRIME.
AND MOST OF THEM ARE THERE,
BECAUSE THEY SIMPLY COULDN'T
AFFORD TO BAIL THEMSELVES OUT.
WHICH IS TERRIBLE.
WE SHOULDN'T HOLD PEOPLE CAPTIVE
IN SHITTY CONDITIONS SIMPLY
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T BUY THEIR WAY
OUT, THAT'S WHAT SPIRIT AIRLINES
IS FOR.
WHAT ALL THIS MEANS IS THAT A
SIMPLE ARREST -- EVEN FOR A
CRIME YOU DIDN'T COMMIT -- CAN
DESTROY YOUR LIFE.
BECAUSE EVEN A SHORT AMOUNT OF
TIME IN JAIL CAN TURN IT UPSIDE
DOWN.
AND IT'S OFTEN NOT A SHORT
AMOUNT OF TIME.
TAKE MARVIN MAYFIELD.
HE WAS ARRESTED FOR A BURGLARY
HE INSISTS HE DIDN'T COMMIT, AND
GOT STUCK IN RIKERS FOR NEARLY A
YEAR.
>> BEFORE YOU WENT IN, YOU --
YOU HAD STARTED A JOB --
>> MM-HM, HAD A CAR.
>> YOU HAD SECURED IN A -- A
PLACE, YOU HAD A CAR.
>> RIGHT.
>> WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL OF IT?
>> ALL OF THOSE THINGS, MY JOB,
MY CAR, AND MY PLACE, WERE ALL
GONE AFTER 11 MONTHS.
I COULDN'T HOLD ON TO IT.
>> John: YEAH, HE WAS IN THERE
FOR 11 MONTHS.
AND OBVIOUSLY, NO JOB IS COOL
WITH YOU JUST NOT SHOWING UP FOR
ELEVEN MONTHS, UNLESS, OF
COURSE, YOU'RE THIS LAZY BITCH.
AND ALL THIS IS BEFORE YOU GET
TO THE FACT THAT HOLDING SOMEONE
PRETRIAL CAN GIVE A PROSECUTOR A
HUGE AMOUNT OF LEVERAGE IN
OBTAINING A GUILTY PLEA.
AGAIN, MARVIN MAYFIELD MAINTAINS
HE WAS INNOCENT, BUT HE PLED
GUILTY ANYWAY, AND WHEN YOU HEAR
HIM EXPLAIN WHY, IT MAKES SENSE.
>> AFTER 11 MONTHS, THEY SAID
THAT IF YOU PLEAD GUILTY TODAY,
YOU GET TIME SERVED AND GO HOME.
>> SO, YOUR OPTION WAS TO STAY
IN AND -- AND FIGHT THIS CASE --
>> MMM-HM.
>> OR YOU CAN GO HOME TODAY.
>> OR I CAN GO HOME TODAY.
BUT ANOTHER GUILTY PLEA, ANOTHER
GUILTY PLEA TO A FELONY ON MY
RECORD.
THE WORST AND HARDEST BLOW OF
EVERYTHING WAS TO PLEAD GUILTY
TO SOMETHING I DIDN'T DO JUST TO
STOP THAT SUFFERING.
>> John: AND I GET THAT.
IF I'D BEEN HELD IN RIKERS FOR
11 MONTHS WITH NO TRIAL AND NO
END IN SIGHT, I'D CONFESS TO
ANYTHING IF IT MEANT GOING HOME.
LINDBERGH BABY?
SNATCHED IT.
JFK?
CAPPED HIM.
ZODIAC KILLER?
IT ME.
JUST PLEASE LET ME GO HOME.
AND YES, I CAN SEE IT, TOO.
THERE IS A RESEMBLANCE.
EXCEPT I'M KIDDING, I LOOK
NOTHING LIKE THE ZODIAC KILLER.
AND YOU'LL AGREE WITH THAT IF
YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU.
SO CASH BAIL IS ARBITRARY,
DESTRUCTIVE, AND BASICALLY
CRIMINALIZES POVERTY -- AND
THAT'S WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE
MASSIVE RACIAL DISPARITIES
INVOLVED.
AND WHEN YOU TAKE ALL THIS
TOGETHER, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHY
SO MANY JURISDICTIONS PASSED
SOME FORM OF BAIL REFORM OVER
THE LAST FEW YEARS.
AND NOTABLY, IN SOME PLACES, IT
WAS DONE WITH BIPARTISAN SUPPORT
IN 2014, NEW JERSEY PASSED A
BILL THAT'S SINCE CUT THE NUMBER
OF PEOPLE IN ITS JAILS BY HALF,
AND IT WAS CHAMPIONED BY A
SURPRISING FIGURE.
>> NO LONGER MUST YOU STAY IN
JAIL FOR MINOR OFFENSES, LONGER
THAN YOU WOULD HAVE IF YOU'D
ACTUALLY BEEN CONVICTED OF THE
CRIME WHICH YOU'RE ACCUSED OF
COMMITTING, JUST BECAUSE YOUR
FAMILY DOESN'T HAVE $500 TO POST
BAIL.
>> John: YEAH, TO HIS CREDIT,
CHRIS CHRISTIE SUPPORTED BAIL
REFORM.
AND REMEMBER, THIS IS THE SAME
CHRIS CHRISTIE WHO THOUGHT IT
WAS A GOOD IDEA TO BE
"PRO-TRAFFIC JAM," GOT
PHOTOGRAPHED ENJOYING A BEACH
THAT HAD BEEN CLOSED TO THE
PUBLIC BY A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN,
AND WAS THE FIRST MAJOR
REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE TO ENDORSE
THIS HISTORIC WHOOPSIE.
THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY HAS TO
BE PRETTY FUCKING OBVIOUS IF
EVEN CHRIS CHRISTIE CAN FIND IT.
AND YET, IN MANY PLACES, THE
BACKLASH TO THESE REFORMS HAS
BEEN SWIFT, AND UGLY.
AND IT ALWAYS TAKES THE SAME
FORM YOU SAW EARLIER:
FEARMONGERING ABOUT HOW
REFORMING CASH BAIL MEANS
VIOLENT CRIMINALS ARE GOING TO
BE WANTONLY SET LOOSE ON THE
STREETS TO REOFFEND.
BUT EVERY PART OF THAT IS MUCH
MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT SOUNDS.
FOR STARTERS, A HUGE AMOUNT OF
PEOPLE IN JAIL ARE STUCK THERE
ON SIMPLE MISDEMEANORS OR
NON-VIOLENT CHARGES.
AND EVEN WHEN IT COMES TO
VIOLENT FELONY CHARGES, THOSE
HAPPEN ON A VERY BROAD SPECTRUM
FROM MURDER TO SIMPLY BEING
INVOLVED IN A FIGHT.
AND IMPORTANTLY, BEING CHARGED
WITH SOMETHING DOESN'T
NECESSARILY MEAN YOU'RE GUILTY
THAT'S FOR A TRIAL TO DECIDE.
YET, TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE ONLY
TOO HAPPY TO BLUR THE LINE
BETWEEN "CHARGE" AND
"CONVICTION."
EARLIER THIS YEAR, CHICAGO MAYOR
LORI LIGHTFOOT DID EXACTLY THAT,
WHEN CRITICIZING PRETRIAL
RELEASE PROGRAMS IN COOK COUNTY,
WHICH IMPLEMENTED ITS BAIL
REFORMS BACK IN 2017.
>> THE MAYOR SAYING JUDGES
SHOULD NOT ALLOW PEOPLE CHARGED
WITH VIOLENT CRIMES TO WALK FREE
ON BAIL OR ELECTRONIC
MONITORING, BECAUSE IF THEY'RE
CHARGED, THEY'RE GUILTY.
>> WHEN THOSE CASE -- CHARGES
ARE BROUGHT, THESE PEOPLE ARE
GUILTY.
AND OF COURSE, THEY'RE ENTITLED
TO A PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE,
OF COURSE THEY'RE ENTITLED TO
THEIR DAY IN COURT, BUT
RESIDENTS IN OUR COMMUNITY ARE
ALSO ENTITLED TO SAFETY.
>> John: WAIT, HOLD ON.
YOU CAN'T SAY SOMEONE'S GUILTY
AND THEN SAY THEY'RE ENTITLED
TO A PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE.
THOSE TWO IDEAS CANNOT COEXIST.
YOU CAN'T BE GUILTY AND INNOCENT
AT THE SAME TIME JUST LIKE YOU
CAN'T BE HUNGRY AND FULL OR TALL
AND SHORT OR BRITISH AND HAPPY.
IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER!
BELIEVE ME!
AND ILLINOIS' BAIL CONVERSATION
HAS ONLY GOTTEN MORE HEATED, NOW
A STATEWIDE LAW ELIMINATING THE
USE OF CASH BAIL IS SET TO TAKE
EFFECT IN JANUARY.
REPUBLICANS HAVE CALLED IT "THE
PURGE" LAW, AND HAVE ATTACKED IT
IN SOME PRETTY GROSS WAYS,
INCLUDING THESE UNUSUAL MAILERS
TO VOTERS.
>> THE PAPERS, THEY'VE BEEN
DELIVERED UNDER DIFFERENT NAMES,
THIS ONE THE CHICAGO CITY WIRE.
THEY ALL CLAIM TO HAVE REAL DATA
AND REAL NEWS, BUT IT'S ALSO A
CAMPAIGN MESSAGE, NOT A REAL
NEWSPAPER.
>> THERE ARE TWO PAGES OF PHOTOS
OF MEN, MOSTLY BLACK AND LATINO,
WHO, ACCORDING TO THE PAPER,
WILL BE RELEASED ON BOND IN
DUPAGE COUNTY.
>> THE CONTROVERSIAL
NEWSPAPER-LIKE MAILINGS ARE FROM
REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST DAN PROFT
WHO RUNS THE PEOPLE WHO PLAY BY
THE RULES PAC.
>> John: WOW.
FIRST, THAT IS STRIKINGLY
RACIST.
AND SECOND, THOSE MAILERS WERE
ABSOLUTE HORSESHIT.
THEY STATED THE NEW LAW
"MANDATES" MURDER SUSPECTS
AWAITING TRIAL BE RELEASED FROM
JAIL, WHICH IT DOESN'T.
THEY ALSO FEATURED A LIST OF
CHARGES THAT THEY CLAIMED WERE
"NON-DETAINABLE."
BUT THE TRUTH IS THAT IN
ILLINOIS, AS IN MOST PLACES THAT
HAVE PASSED BAIL REFORM -- FOR
SERIOUS AND VIOLENT CRIMES,
SUSPECTS CAN STILL BE JAILED
PRETRIAL IF THEY'RE CONSIDERED
A PUBLIC SAFETY RISK, OR LIKELY
TO FLEE.
SO THOSE CLAIMS WERE BASICALLY
THE MOST MISLEADING THING TO
APPEAR IN NEWSPRINT SINCE THE
IDEA THAT DAGWOOD COULD PULL
BLONDIE.
COME ON.
LOOK AT HIM, THEN LOOK AT HER.
THERE'S NO WAY.
SHE'S A STONE COLD TEN AND
DAGWOOD'S NOT EVEN A CATCH BY
"FUNNY PAGES" STANDARDS.
SHE MARRIED DOWN.
AND TO SEE JUST HOW SUCCESSFULLY
BAIL REFORM OPPONENTS CAN
DEMAGOGUE THIS ISSUE, JUST LOOK
HERE IN NEW YORK.
THE BIG KOO-KOO CITY THAT GO
HONK HONK.
THIS STATE'S BAIL REFORM LAW
TOOK EFFECT ON NEW YEAR'S DAY OF
2020, AND JUST EIGHT DAYS LATER
-- LONG BEFORE THERE WAS ANY
DATA ON ITS IMPACTS -- STATE
LEGISLATORS WERE OUT THERE
TRYING TO GET IT REPEALED.
>> I THINK PEOPLE ARE GETTING
SCARED, I THINK PEOPLE ARE
FEELING UNSAFE AND MORE UNSAFE
AS EACH DAY GOES BY.
>> WE'RE GOING TO HAMMER THIS --
I WANT TO BE CLEAR -- WE'RE
GOING TO HAMMER THIS EVERY
SINGLE DAY.
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE
THE POINT THIS IS WHAT THE
PUBLIC CARES ABOUT.
>> John: THAT WAS JUST EIGHT
DAYS IN.
SO UNLESS A TON OF PEOPLE CHOSE
THE NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTION "BE
SCARED OF BAIL REFORM," AND THEY
ACTUALLY STUCK WITH IT PAST
JANUARY 3RD -- TWO EQUALLY
UNREALISTIC SCENARIOS -- I'M
PRETTY SURE SUFFOLK COUNTY KYLE
MACLACHLAN HERE IS HAMMERING
AWAY AT THIN AIR.
AND THE THING IS, VIOLENT CRIME
DID RISE IN NEW YORK IN 2020 --
JUST LIKE IT DID EVERYWHERE ELSE
IN AMERICA, BOTH IN PLACES THAT
PASSED BAIL REFORM, AND IN
PLACES THAT DIDN'T.
AND YET, THE NYPD RELENTLESSLY
LABELED BAIL REFORM THE CAUSE.
ITS THEN-COMMISSIONER, DERMOT
SHEA, REPEATEDLY TOOK TO THE
PRESS TO LABEL IT A MAJOR REASON
FOR INCREASES IN CRIME AND GUN
VIOLENCE.
BUT WHEN THE NEW YORK POST
CHECKED THOSE CLAIMS, USING THE
NYPD'S OWN DATA, THEY FOUND THAT
IN THE FIRST SIX MONTHS OF 2020,
OUT OF 528 SHOOTING INCIDENTS,
EXACTLY ONE HAD BEEN COMMITTED
BY SOMEONE RELEASED UNDER BAIL
REFORM.
AND THAT WASN'T THE ONLY TIME
SHEA WAS MISLEADING.
HE ALSO WENT ON A LOCAL MORNING
SHOW TO SUGGEST THE SUSPECT IN A
PURSE SNATCHING WAS OUT ON BAIL.
>> HE HAS 11 OPEN COURT CASES
RIGHT NOW.
THINK ABOUT THAT.
>> HOW IS THIS ALLOWED TO -- HOW
IS THIS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO
FOSTER LIKE THIS?
>> ONE SIDE WILL SAY AS LONG AS
HE SHOWS UP AT COURT THEN
EVERYTHING IS WORKING WELL AND I
WOULD -- I WOULD SAY THAT
EVERYTHING IS NOT WORKING WELL.
>> 11 OPEN COURT CASES IS
SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO
DEAL WITH, SOMEONE YOU WOULDN'T
WANT TO ENCOUNTER ON THE
STREETS.
>> John: NOW THAT MIGHT SOUND
SCARY.
BUT I'VE GOT SOME GOOD NEWS,
THEY FOUND THAT GUY WITH 11 OPEN
CASES.
IT WAS PRETTY EASY, BECAUSE IT
TURNS OUT, HE WAS ALREADY LOCKED
UP IN RIKERS AT THE TIME THE
CRIME TOOK PLACE.
SO SHEA ACCUSED THE WRONG GUY
ENTIRELY.
BUT I'M SURE NEW YORK SLEPT MUCH
SAFER KNOWING THAT THAT GUY WAS
SAFELY BEHIND THE SAME BARS HE
WAS ALREADY BEHIND BEFORE.
JUST TWO DAYS AFTER THAT, SHEA
HAD TO APPEAR BEFORE THE STATE
LEGISLATURE.
AND INTERESTINGLY, ALL THE
FEARMONGERING AND BLUSTER HE'D
SPREAD ON NEWSPAPERS AND TV
COMPLETELY COLLAPSED IN A FORUM
WHERE HE WAS EXPECTED TO ANSWER
HONESTLY.
>> WERE THERE PEOPLE OUT WHO --
WHO, YOU KNOW, WITH NO BAIL FOR
EXAMPLE OR BAIL BEING SET AND
THEY MADE BAIL -- I DON'T KNOW
-- AND THEN COMMITTED ANOTHER
SHOOTING AND WERE ARRESTED AGAIN
FOR BASICALLY THE SAME CRIME?
>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHO WE
ARREST FOR CRIMES, IT'S GOING TO
BE SMALL NUMBERS.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ENTIRETY OF
HOW MANY SHOOTING ARRESTS WE
MAKE AND THE PERCENTAGE, IT'S
NOT DRAMATIC.
>> John: I'M SORRY -- "THE
PERCENTAGE IS NOT DRAMATIC?"
YOU WERE CONSTANTLY CLAIMING
BAIL REFORM WAS DRIVING UP
SHOOTINGS.
THERE ARE HERMITS ON
MOUNTAINTOPS WHO KNOW EXACTLY
TWO THINGS: ALL OF REALITY IS
BUT THE BRIEF DANCE OF LIGHT
ACROSS THE WATER'S SURFACE, AND
DERMOT SHEA SAYS BAIL REFORM IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RISE IN
CRIME IN NEW YORK.
YOU'D THINK HE'D BE EMBARRASSED
BY BEING FORCED TO ADMIT "THE
PERCENTAGE IS NOT DRAMATIC."
BUT JUST TWO MONTHS LATER, HE
WAS BACK ON TV, SAYING THIS.
>> IS BAIL REFORM WHAT'S LEADING
TO MORE SHOOTINGS --
>> 100%.
>> AND MORE GUN POSSESSIONS
HAPPENING ON THE STREETS --
>> 100%.
100%.
THERE IS NO DOUBT.
>> John: WELL, WHICH IS IT,
DERMOT?
ARE THE NUMBERS "NOT DRAMATIC?"
OR IS BAIL REFORM "100 PERCENT"
LEADING TO MORE SHOOTINGS?
BECAUSE THOSE THINGS ARE
MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
THE ONLY PLACE WHERE "NOT
DRAMATIC" AND "100%" CAN EXIST
AT THE SAME TIME IS IN KRISTEN
STEWART'S WHOLE GENERAL VIBE.
SHE'S GIVING IT HER ALL.
BUT SHE'S ALSO GIVING US
NOTHING.
IT'S TOTALLY AMAZING.
AND THE PROBLEM IS, ALL OF THIS
-- THE EXAGGERATED CLAIMS AND
SENSATIONAL HEADLINES -- HAVE
MADE A REAL IMPRESSION ON
PEOPLE.
PUBLIC APPROVAL OF BAIL REFORM
IN THIS STATE HAS PLUMMETED, AND
THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS NOW
ROLLED BACK PORTIONS OF THE LAW,
TWICE.
AND THAT'S THE THING.
IT'S HARD TO OVERCOME THE
EMOTIONAL IMPACT OF THE CLAIM
THAT BAIL REFORM HARMS PUBLIC
SAFETY.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU
CAN'T FIND ISOLATED INSTANCES OF
INDIVIDUALS WHO'VE BEEN
REARRESTED FOR NEW CRIMES WHILE
OUT AWAITING TRIAL.
YOU CAN.
AND ANYTIME SOMEONE'S A VICTIM
OF A CRIME, THAT IS TERRIBLE.
BUT IF PUBLIC SAFETY IS
GENUINELY YOUR PRIORITY -- CASH
BAIL HAS NEVER FUNDAMENTALLY
BEEN ABOUT THAT.
FOR ALL THE ADS CURRENTLY
CLAIMING THAT "PEOPLE CHARGED
WITH VIOLENT CRIMES ARE NOW
WALKING THE STREETS" -- THEY
ALWAYS WERE, AS LONG AS THEY HAD
ENOUGH MONEY TO MAKE BAIL.
UNDER TOO MANY PLACES' CURRENT
SYSTEMS, A PERSON FACING A
MARIJUANA MISDEMEANOR WHO
DOESN'T HAVE $2,000 IS GOING TO
GET STUCK INSIDE JAIL.
BUT A SERIAL SEX OFFENDER WHO
MAKES -- HYPOTHETICALLY -- A
MILLION DOLLARS A WEEK IN
"FINDING NEVERLAND" RECEIPTS
GETS TO STAY AT HOME.
AND WHEN YOU PULL BACK AND LOOK
AT THE OVERALL FIGURES OF
WHETHER BAIL REFORM HAS ANY
STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT LINK
TO CRIME, THE ANSWER -- SO FAR
-- HAS BEEN PRETTY CONCLUSIVELY
"NO."
ONE ANALYSIS LOOKED AT STUDIES
IN SEVEN DIFFERENT
JURISDICTIONS, AND NONE OF THEM
FOUND THAT BAIL REFORMS LEAD TO
A MEANINGFUL INCREASE IN CRIME.
AND RESEARCH SUGGESTS BAIL
REFORM CAN ACTUALLY MAKE PEOPLE
LESS LIKELY TO RE-OFFEND --
WHICH MAKES SENSE.
IF YOU DON'T UPEND PEOPLE'S
LIVES BY NEEDLESSLY THROWING
THEM IN JAIL PRE-TRIAL, THEY'RE
IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION TO
STAY OUT OF TROUBLE.
IN HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS -- THE
PLACE YOU SAW THAT DICKISH JUDGE
EARLIER -- RESEARCHERS FOUND
THAT, AFTER THEY DRASTICALLY
REDUCED CASH BAIL IN THEIR
MISDEMEANOR COURTS, THERE WAS
ACTUALLY A 6%
"DECREASE" IN NEW PROSECUTIONS
OF PEOPLE OVER THE THREE YEARS
FOLLOWING THEIR ARREST.
SO IT'S BETTER FOR EVERYBODY.
BUT I GET THAT THOSE STATS DON'T
SOUND NEARLY AS FLASHY OVER
FOOTAGE OF A CRIME SCENE.
YOU CAN'T MAKE A CAMPAIGN AD
THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS.
>> DO YOU FEEL SAFE?
YOU SHOULD.
STUDY AFTER STUDY
SHOWS BAIL REFORM DOES NOT
IMPACT RISING CRIME, AND IN FACT
CAN EVEN GO SO FAR AS TO REDUCE
RECIDIVISM.
AND THIS DEAD BODY?
IT'S JUST 70 POUNDS OF HAM IN
THE SHAPE OF MAN.
>> John: YEAH, IT'S HONEST, BUT
IT DOESN'T PACK QUITE THE SAME
PUNCH.
AND FOR ALL THE FEARS OF LETTING
SOMEONE WHO'S A DANGER ONTO THE
STREETS -- AGAIN, BAIL REFORM
DOESN'T TAKE AWAY JUDGES'
ABILITY TO DETAIN SOMEONE THEY
BELIEVE TO BE A GENUINE THREAT.
IN 49 STATES, ALL EXCEPT NEW
YORK, JUDGES ARE ALLOWED TO
CONSIDER BOTH RISK OF FAILURE TO
APPEAR AND PUBLIC SAFETY IN
PRETRIAL DECISIONS.
AND EVEN IN NEW YORK, IT WAS
GENERALLY ACCEPTED JUDGES DID IT
ANYWAY, AS "POTENTIAL
DANGEROUSNESS" HAS BEEN THE DE
FACTO USE OF BAIL HERE FOR
DECADES.
AND REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN
DISAGREE ON HOW EXACTLY TO MAKE
THOSE DETERMINATIONS.
ONE PLACE THAT SOME EXPERTS
POINT TO AS A MODEL IS NEW
JERSEY, WHOSE SYSTEM NOW LOOKS
LIKE THIS.
>> JUDGE SYBIL ELIAS IS WEIGHING
WHETHER TO FREE OR DETAIN A MAN
WHO APPEARS FROM THE COUNTY JAIL
BY CLOSED-CIRCUIT.
NOTICE THERE IS NO MENTION OF
MONEY FOR BAIL BECAUSE THE NEW
SYSTEM ELIMINATES THAT.
INSTEAD, IT USES INFORMATION
SUCH AS CONVICTIONS, NOT
ARRESTS, NOT SOCIO-ECONOMIC
FACTORS, PUNCHED INTO A
COMPUTER.
THE TRIAL COURT ADMINISTRATOR
WILL GIVE EACH DEFENDANT A SCORE
OF 1 TO 6 FOR RISK OF
REOFFENDING AND RISK OF SKIPPING
COURT.
EVEN IF A DEFENDANT HAS A HIGH
SCORE, PROSECUTORS MUST ASK FOR
A DETENTION HEARING WITHIN THREE
TO FIVE DAYS, AND MUST PRESENT
CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE TO
DETAIN SOMEONE.
>> John: YEAH, THAT SEEMS PRETTY
GOOD RIGHT?
ALTHOUGH IT'S BY NO MEANS
PERFECT.
FOR ONE, ASSIGNING PEOPLE A
"CRIME SCORE" SOUNDS LIKE
SOMETHING ROBOCOP DOES RIGHT
BEFORE HE PUNCHES YOU OUT A
WINDOW.
AND IT'S WORTH NOTING, COMPUTER
ALGORITHMS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO
BIAS THEMSELVES.
ONE SUCH SYSTEM IN BROWARD
COUNTY, FLORIDA, "WAS
PARTICULARLY LIKELY TO FALSELY
FLAG BLACK DEFENDANTS AS FUTURE
CRIMINALS, WRONGLY LABELING THEM
AT ALMOST TWICE THE RATE AS
WHITE DEFENDANTS."
IT WAS BASICALLY A RACIST
COMPUTER.
WHICH I REALIZE IS PROBABLY ELON
MUSK'S NEXT BILLION-DOLLAR IDEA.
AND NEW JERSEY'S APPROACH ISN'T
THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN WORK.
BAIL REFORM HAS LOOKED DIFFERENT
IN HARRIS COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE,
HAS HAD SIMILAR SUCCESS WITHOUT
ANY KIND OF COMPUTER SCORING, AS
HAS NEW YORK.
THE POINT IS, IF WE WANTED TO,
THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS TO
DESIGN A SYSTEM THAT TRULY
PRIORITIZES "PUBLIC SAFETY."
BUT IF YOU COUNT THE ACCUSED AS
PART OF THE PUBLIC, WHICH YOU
REALLY SHOULD, WE SHOULD BE
CONSIDERING THEIR SAFETY, TOO.
BECAUSE TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPEN
WHEN YOU'RE LOCKED UP PRE-TRIAL.
AND IT'S NOT JUST THAT YOU CAN
LOSE YOUR JOB AND YOUR HOME.
YOU CAN LOSE YOUR LIFE.
AN INVESTIGATION OF OVER 500 U-S
JAILS FOUND THAT BETWEEN 2008
AND 2019, THEY SAW OVER 7,500
INMATE DEATHS -- AND OF THOSE
PEOPLE, NEARLY 5,000 WERE NEVER
CONVICTED OF THE CHARGES ON
WHICH THEY WERE BEING HELD.
HERE IN NEW YORK, AT RIKERS,
WHERE MOST PEOPLE ARE HELD
PRE-TRIAL, 17 PEOPLE HAVE DIED
THIS YEAR, SO FAR.
AND I KNOW THIS CONVERSATION
GETS HEATED.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER
WHY BAIL REFORM WAS IMPORTANT TO
BEGIN WITH.
AND IN THINKING ABOUT THIS
STORY, I'D LIKE TO SHARE
SOMETHING THAT'S STUCK WITH ME.
WHEN WE DID OUR BAIL SEGMENT
SEVEN YEARS AGO, RIGHT UNTIL THE
LAST MINUTE, WE WERE GOING TO
INCLUDE A CLIP OF KALIEF
BROWDER.
IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH HIS
STORY, AT 16, HE WAS WRONGLY
ARRESTED FOR STEALING A
BACKPACK.
THIS WAS THE CLIP WE WERE GOING
TO USE.
>> THE GUY COMES OUT OF NOWHERE,
SAYS I ROBBED HIM.
AND THE NEXT THING I KNOW
THEY'RE PUTTING THE CUFFS ON ME.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW THIS DUDE.
>> BROWDER'S FAMILY COULDN'T
MAKE THE $10,000 BAIL ON THE
ROBBERY CHARGES.
MONTHS TURNED INTO YEARS.
HE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE
SEVERAL TIMES.
IN JUNE HE WAS SUDDENLY FREED
WITH NO EXPLANATION.
>> NO APOLOGY, NO NOTHING. THEY
JUST SAID 'OH, CASE DISMISSED.
DON'T WORRY ABOUT NOTHING.'
LIKE, WHAT DO YOU MEAN DON'T
WORRY ABOUT NOTHING.
Y'ALL JUST TOOK OVER 3 YEARS OF
MY LIFE.
I DIDN'T GET TO GO TO PROM,
GRADUATION, NOTHING.
IT WAS MISSED YEARS, I'M NEVER
GONNA GET THOSE YEARS BACK.
NEVER.
>> John: NOW, WE PULLED THAT
CLIP OUT JUST BEFORE TAPING,
WHEN WE FOUND OUT HE'D KILLED
HIMSELF THE NIGHT BEFORE.
HIS DEATH ISN'T EVEN INCLUDED IN
ANY OF THE TALLIES OF PEOPLE WHO
WERE KILLED BY RIKERS, DESPITE
THE FACT IT SURE FEELS LIKE IT
SHOULD BE.
THE COLLATERAL DAMAGE OF LOCKING
SO MANY PEOPLE UP PRE-TRIAL IS
ENORMOUS.
TO DEFEND THIS SYSTEM IS TO
DEFEND A PEOPLE-WRECKING
MACHINE.
SO, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
WELL, IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL WE'RE
GOING TO GO BACKWARDS.
WHICH WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE.
AND I'D ARGUE ANY FUTURE SYSTEM
SHOULD BE BUILT ON A FEW BASIC
PRINCIPLES.
FIRST, FOR SOMEONE CHARGED WITH
A LOW-LEVEL OFFENSE, WE SHOULD
PRIORITIZE LETTING THEM REMAIN
FREE PRETRIAL, INSTEAD OF
DEFAULTING TO KEEPING THEM IN
JAIL.
SECOND, WHENEVER ANY BAIL
HEARINGS DO HAPPEN, THEY SHOULD
BE LONGER THAN TEN SECONDS.
I CAN'T FUCKING BELIEVE THAT HAS
TO BE SAID OUT LOUD.
ALSO, PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE COUNSEL
WITH THEM AT BAIL HEARINGS.
I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT HAS TO BE
SAID EITHER.
AND FINALLY, IF SOMEONE IS
DETAINED, WE SHOULD BE
EXPEDITING THEIR TRIAL, SO
THEY'RE NOT WAITING YEARS FOR A
COURT DATE.
AND I'M NOT SAYING REFORM IS
EASY OR SIMPLE.
THERE ARE GOING TO BE
DISAGREEMENTS EVEN AMONG
ADVOCATES ABOUT BEST PRACTICES
HERE.
BUT RIGHT NOW WE CAN'T EVEN HAVE
THOSE IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS
BECAUSE ALL THE AIR IN THE ROOM
IS BEING TAKEN UP BY BULLSHIT
FEARMONGERING ADS, FAKE
NEWSPAPERS, AND
CONFIDENTLY-DELIVERED LIES FROM
MEN IN UNIFORM.
AND LOOK, EVEN AFTER
CONVICTIONS, WE'RE CLEARLY
LOCKING FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE UP
IN THIS COUNTRY.
BUT TO DO IT BEFORE THEY'VE EVEN
BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING IS
PROOF THAT CIVIL LIBERTIES ONLY
APPLY TANGIBLY TO THE PRIVILEGED
-- FOR EVERYONE ELSE, THEY'RE
ENTIRELY THEORETICAL.
AND ANYONE EVEN TRYING TO DEFEND
A SYSTEM LIKE THAT IS BASICALLY
MORALLY BANKRUPT.
ISN'T THAT RIGHT, DERMOT?
>> 100%.
100%.
THERE IS NO DOUBT.
>> John: FOR ONCE, DERMOT, I
CAN'T ARGUE WITH YOU THERE!
AND NOW THIS.
>> Announcer: AND NOW,
UNNECESSARY FULL DISCLOSURE: ALL
TAMRON HALL EDITION.
>> FULL DISCLOSURE MY DAD WAS 25
YEARS OLDER THAN MY MOM.
AND GROWING UP PEOPLE WOULD
THINK HE WAS MY GRANDAD.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I CANNOT STAND
PUSHUPS.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I DO DYE MY
HAIR AND I'LL DYE IT TONIGHT.
FULL DISCLOSURE, MY NAME IS
TAMRON AND I SUFFER FROM
REALLY DRY FEET.
FULL DISCLOSURE, WE EAT TWO
BURGERS A WEEK.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I DRINK WINE,
CHAMPAGNE, AND VODKA.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I DO NOT HAVE A
SECRET TALENT.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I DON'T KNOW
HOW COMFORTABLE I AM TALKING
ABOUT SEX ON TV.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I HAVE A
PELOTON.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I HAVE A
TATTOO.
FULL DISCLOSURE, I KNOW NOTHING
THAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS SHOW!
♪ ♪
>> John: THAT'S OUR SHOW!
THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING!
WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK!
GOOD NIGHT!
♪ ♪
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
>> I WILL WORK DAY-IN, DAY-OUT,
TO DELIVER FOR THE BRITISH
PEOPLE.