- Can we all please stand?
- Just over five weeks ago,
ten singles took a leap into the unknown
in search of love.
[cheers and applause] They married
as complete strangers.
And in only three weeks,
they’ll have to make a decision
as to whether they’ll stay married or get a divorce.
[applause]
[upbeat music]
Last time, our couples
continued to learn about their spouses
while dealing with the hustle and bustle
of their daily lives.
- Salty, mmm. - Okay. Uh.
- Jasmina and Michael.
- If it stays this way, I know for sure, like,
an emotional connection will, like, follow.
- Nothing should stop me from trying to make this work.
So that’s the one thing that I want to do moving forward,
to make sure I’m doing as much as I can possibly do.
- Katina and Olajuwon.
♪ ♪
- Our first taco night.
- That’s what I’m talking about, baby.
- Things got heated, and I do feel
grateful we were able to get over it.
- We came a long way, Katina. - I know.
- I’m happy I met you, Katina, and I love our marriage.
♪ ♪
- Noi and Steve.
[dramatic music]
♪ ♪
- Lindsey and Mark.
- Things are a two-way street.
- There are certain discussions,
but there isn’t a two-way on that.
- Okay.
If that’s how you feel, that’s how you feel.
- You keep pushing me away.
- I’m not trying to push you-- - You keep doing these things
where I’m like, you’re not invested.
[dramatic music]
- Tonight, Dr. Pepper and I
will sit down individually with each spouse...
- How you doing, buddy?
- To hear about any unanswered questions
that might still be lingering in their marriage.
- If this is how it is now,
it could only get worse from here.
- I literally almost always feel sad all the time.
- It’s just, I don’t feel anything when he touches me.
- When I heard that, I said,
"I don’t want you to do anything out of obligation."
- But that was a dumb move.
♪ ♪
- You talk down to her.
- You’re pointing me out to make me look like the bad guy.
But I’m really bothered.
- Nothing lasts forever.
- You’re telling the world that I’m not enough for you.
- I don’t feel like
your showing love to me-- - Okay, well, I don’t feel
you communicate healthy at all.
I feel you’re negative, I feel you complain,
and you nag-- - I feel like you’ve already
broken my heart.
- Dr. Pepper, did it help me? Not at all.
- Keep talking, Olajuwon.
- Feed something that’s gonna help my marriage,
not keep bringing negative [bleep] to us.
- Oh, my God.
[laughter]
- ♪ It’s all or nothing ♪
- This is "Married at First Sight."
- ♪ There’s no other way ♪
♪ ♪
♪ It’s all or nothing ♪
[soft upbeat music]
- ♪ Turn it up ♪
♪ Yeah, the sun it out ♪
♪ We’re gonna make it that way ♪
♪ ♪
♪ Turn it up ♪
♪ Yeah, the sun it out ♪
♪ We’re gonna make it, okay ♪
♪ For love, for love ♪
- Our couples are now fully immersed
in each other’s lives.
- In this moment, honestly, I’m feeling really good
about my marriage.
You know, Michael and I are in a really good place,
we’re in a really good space.
To finally have both of us be on the same page
is really great, and it feels really amazing.
We’ve made a promise to ourself to continue to give 100%, so...
We gonna see.
- But they still need
to work through their own issues
in order to see things through their spouses’ eyes.
- It’s been hard for us
to be able to communicate effectively.
So, you know, this is kind of the point
where we ask ourselves the tough questions.
In order for me to make the right decision,
and for him to make the right decision,
we need to be honest about what we want.
So we need to have clear answers
in order for us to make the right decision.
- It’s been a very difficult week.
I think for both Lindsey and myself.
I think just navigating a healthy relationship
in this marriage is where we’re both trying to get to.
♪ ♪
[upbeat music]
- ♪ I’m feeling I could fall for you ♪
♪ Ah, just dance, oh, I love the things you do ♪
- Ready for our first food shopping adventure?
- Yup. Let’s do it.
- Food is very important in this marriage.
My husband, he loves to eat, I love to eat too.
- What do you like to eat?
- This is our first time
going food shopping with each other.
So we’re gonna see the things
that he likes, the things that I like.
So we’ll see...[laughs]
How this goes.
- You like hot fudge? - Depends on what
you’re trying to do with it. - [laughs]
- What are we trying to do with the hot fudge?
- We can bring this home. [laughs]
- Please, you better stop it.
♪ ♪
- Come over here, Katina.
There goes the meat.
- Pork liver. - Nah.
- Pork skins.
Duck bacon. - Nah, it ain’t no duck bacon.
- Chicken bones. - Nah, put it down.
We ain’t even gonna try to think
about eating chicken bones. - [laughs]
- If you want that, let me eat the meat
and I’ll just give it to you. How about that?
That’s how you want to eat some bones.
- Lamb patties.
Ooh.
- You cookin’ lamb? I don’t know. I don’t know.
I don’t know. - I’m actually really good--
I’m actually really good at cooking lamb.
- You said that before with other things.
- You know what? - [laughs]
- Are you really trying to flame my cooking right now?
I’m gonna remember this moment. [laughs]
- I’m a traditional guy.
I like that my wife could cook.
- [laughs] - I work hard,
so I’m cool with holding down the home.
But when it comes to groceries,
it’s definitely something that I would have to be
behind her to guide her,
because I don’t think me and Katina eat the same.
She’ll come back with a bunch of [bleep] I don’t want.
[chuckles]
Ooh, you ever made rib?
I haven’t seen you make a good rib.
- I can make a rib.
- You sure? - I like ribs.
- You mess up a man’s rib-- - Yeah, you season it
and throw some barbecue sauce on it--
- You keep saying you season it.
What are you putting on it? Tell me.
- [laughs] - Tell me, please.
Because--[laughs] You keep saying
you just throw season, like you have a chef.
- I feel, with ribs, you put, like, pepper, salt--
I feel like, um...
- Barbecue sauce. - Yeah, barb--
I said barbecue sauce. - Nope, you just went straight
to pepper and salt again. - No, I said barbecue sauce
before you picked it up.
- [scoffs] Whatever.
You wanna try and get this,
and try to see what you can do?
- Yeah. Let’s have some ribs.
- I’m gonna go with you this to do it.
We’re gonna do this together. - You’re gonna do this
with me? - We’re gonna do this together.
- You know what?
One day, we should do a cook-off.
- You don’t want to. - So I could talk [bleep]
about your food. - You don’t want to.
Because then your feelings really gonna get hurt.
- Yeah, okay. - You gonna say,
"Dude, this man has many talents."
All my family... - Mm.
- Like, take cooking fried chicken seriously.
- Can you send me the recipe? - No.
- [laughs] - You gotta beat me.
- What?
You don’t wanna help perfect my skills?
- If you beat me, you can get my family’s recipe.
- [chuckles]
- If you don’t beat me, then you ain’t worthy enough.
- [laughs]
Olajuwon knows he can only make breakfast.
Like, how you gonna tell me how to make the chicken?
- Are you all set? - Yeah, I’m all set.
I don’t know if we’ll do a cook-off,
but he was talking up a big game,
so I might have to--
might have to make my fried chicken.
- Thank you.
- You’re welcome. Anytime.
- Ready? - I’m ready, baby.
Let’s do it.
So I could beat up on you with our chicken.
- Whatever.
[tense music]
♪ ♪
- Mark, I am at a true loss with you.
All I’ve asked for was consistency
since the beginning.
- Mm.
- I feel completely drained.
I told you I needed consistency.
- And I’ve told you the things that I need too.
- No. - I haven’t?
- You haven’t been consistent, Mark.
- I’ve said it for weeks, I need healthy communication,
you want consistency-- - Consistency is healthy
communication for me. - It’s not--
- Talking to me is healthy communication for me.
- But that’s what’s healthy for you.
And the way that you speak to me
isn’t healthy for me.
I’m not somebody who quits on things.
[tense music]
But the last five weeks with Lindsey have been tough.
You know, last night we had difficulty.
- This is a boundary, I feel like you’ve crossed it.
This bothers me.
- Two-way street. - No, Mark,
I take accountability. - All me, all me.
Okay, you do-- - Anytime we had a conversation
the honeymoon-- - Stop, stop, stop, stop.
You don’t have to, like,
grip me like that. - I’m done.
- And even though we try to have fun and, like,
forget everything, and just enjoy each other’s company...
- There’s literally
so many cats. - There we go.
Regardless of where they are, we’ve got them all.
[camera clicks] Oh, my goodness,
this is amazing.
- It carried over to today, and she hasn’t let it go.
- I feel like you’re not showing up for me at all.
You’re not showing up for this marriage.
I just feel like I’m tired of being
the only one to show up.
I just don’t feel hopeful. - Mm-hmm.
I don’t wanna have unhealthy fights like this.
Raising our voices triggers things for both of us.
It’s very hard for us both.
We have styles of how we speak to people
and it’s very different.
It’s what it is. - Mm-hmm.
[somber music]
♪ ♪
- I can say that I will not go negative towards you.
And I will be very trying, in a--
in any situation where I feel like
I have negativity coming at me,
to be very calm, and try to maintain order
of the conversation so it stays healthy and positive.
I can absolutely-- - Mark...
♪ ♪
- That’s what I can try-- - Can I ask you
when you’re gonna bring positivity
in this relationship?
’Cause I haven’t seen that yet.
- Well, to me, that’s a very negative comment.
So, again, let me try this again.
I will be calm in situations when I feel that you’re being
just negative towards me. [glass clinks]
- Mm-hmm. - But...
if you can’t try equally on things that
bother me, then this is pointless.
- What are you gonna do for me, Mark?
- It’s all about what I’m not doing for you.
Is what I’ll constantly-- - No, Mark.
It is at this point.
I feel like I gave you everything.
All I asked for was consistency.
Somebody who wasn’t rigid.
Somebody who would make me feel appreciated and cared for,
and somebody who wouldn’t walk away from me or ignore me.
And that is all you have done for me.
You are so inconsistent.
You give me affection, you pull it all the way back.
You tell me, "I’m so sorry I’ve done that.
"I’ve always been in. I’m gonna communicate better.
I’ll talk to you before bed."
You rather text everybody else and post on Instagram,
instead of message your wife back before bed.
- It’s all--
- You are not showing up for me.
- It’s all--it’s all about me. - I don’t feel like
you’re showing up for me-- - Okay, well, I don’t
feel you communicate healthy at all.
I feel you’re negative. I feel you complain
and you nag. - I feel like you’ve already
broken my heart and you’ve, like...
Walked away from this marriage. - Okay, okay. Okay.
But yeah, you said several times,
"I’m done, I’m done. I’m out, I’m out.
I’m packing bags and leave." You don’t leave.
You throw this up-- throw this to me.
- Mark, would you like me to leave right now?
- [exhales sharply] If you--if you want.
- Mark, would you like me to leave right now?
- All I want is healthy communication--
- Mark, would you like me to leave right now?
- If you want to-- - It’s a yes or no answer.
- If you want to. - I need to know.
’Cause I don’t understand you.
- I think I’m trying my hardest to deal with someone
that is very difficult for me at times.
And I think that you are doing the best that you can
to deal with someone who’s difficult for you.
And that’s all that we can do.
You’re not happy with what I’ve done for you, I’m sorry--
- I’m not happy that you didn’t communicate with me once.
- I’m sorry that I’m not what you wanted.
- Mm.
- I’m not the things that you wanted in a husband.
I’m not the things that you like.
You’re very upset.
You’re very frustrated.
And I’m sorry.
But there are many times I’m very difficult with you.
But I ride it through as best I can,
try to find it-- - No, you do not.
Absolutely, that’s a lie. - Have I once
packed a bag and said I’m gonna leave?
- Mark, what I’m really hurt about
is the fact that I don’t feel like you respect me.
I don’t feel like you value me.
I don’t feel like you care for me.
And I don’t feel like you show up for me.
- Okay.
- ♪ Oh, no, you’re playing with fire ♪
♪ You’re gonna get burned, burned, burned, ♪
♪ Burned, burned ♪
[upbeat music] ♪ You’re gonna get burned ♪
- ♪ Oh ♪
♪ I need somebody ♪
- Today, Pastor Cal and I
are meeting with the couples to hear about what unanswered
questions might still be lingering in their marriages.
- I’m really excited to see Pastor Cal.
I think it’ll be a really good conversation hopefully.
- With less than three weeks left until Decision Day...
- If you don’t like this, something’s wrong
with your taste buds or something.
- Right.
- We wanna make sure that they’re dealing with any
lingering issues in order to decide whether they
want to stay married or get a divorce.
- ♪ Oh, oh ♪
♪ Been stuck in a dark place ♪
♪ I couldn’t find my way to the sun ♪
♪ I’m gonna come back stronger ♪
- How are you? - Pretty good, overall.
So I think, all things considered,
I think we’re doing wonderful.
- Wow. Wow. - [laughs] Yeah.
- Let’s go talk about it. - Okay.
- Come on, let’s go this way.
- Okay, let’s go sit down over here.
- Sure thing.
I haven’t been nervous in a while.
But today I’m a bit nervous about talking
about some of the issues me and Noi are going through with.
Well, hey, thanks for meeting with me, cheers.
- So let me try this out.
That’s actually delicious.
- Yeah?
- So I’m here, though, to catch up on you.
Find out what kinds of questions you have
that you need answered, for Decision Day.
It’s coming up.
Because of how I wanna help
and what’s going on, we talk about all the problems.
But my favorite hackneyed phrase is,
"You’re not the problem. I’m not the problem.
"The problem is the problem.
and we’re here together to fix it."
- First of all, let’s start with talking about
one challenge, because I know that you guys
had some conflict about social media posting.
- Oh, yeah. - Yeah.
Let me give you-- let me give you
a little marital advice here. - Yeah.
- Because social media, for as beneficial as it can be,
it can also cause a world of hurt in a marriage,
when you’re not communicating about what
you’re putting on there. - Yeah.
- I’ve seen couples doing extremely well,
and having-- doing all the right things.
And just one little thing can just screw them up.
And they just throw away the whole thing for that--
You don’t want that. - I don’t.
- The main issue is, I go on social media
and I see a story about her, you know,
feeling like this is not enough for her.
Like, she’s, you know, unhappy in this marriage.
And I’ve made it pretty clear that social media
is just, like, off the table, unacceptable.
And then just recently she did another post that
looked very similar to that. - What was the post?
- It said,
"The moment you start to wonder if you deserve better, you do."
And this time, I’m not sure where it came from.
So that’s creating a lot of unease in me right now.
Because aside from the fact that,
you know, she has an issue that she hasn’t expressed to me,
she’s also kind of breaking a rule
or a boundary that I had set with her in terms of,
you know, not going to the public
with our personal issues.
- Well, first of all, I agree with you
about not going to the public, forever,
because that’s just not the way life is.
I think running to social media to say your feelings
instead of to you, to me, that’s fear-based, you know?
Like, she should be able to talk to you
and work it out with you.
And I think the thing is, we have to figure out
how to make her less afraid.
- I know that there’s some insecurities,
and let’s just talk about what are some of the things
that you-- you feel that you might
need to talk to him about, without worrying about whether
he’s gonna be upset, or worrying about
whether you’re going to offend him, or any of that?
- Finances. - What about finances?
What would you want to know, if you asked him a question?
- So I wanna know, can you get a job?
- [laughs] - Can you...
- Just straightforward like that.
- Hold down a job?
How are we gonna provide for our children?
- Do you feel as though your marriage is in danger?
- Um... - I’m hearing doubt.
[tense music]
- Yeah and-- I guess, yeah, it is fear.
- Okay, fear. Okay. - Yeah.
- He needs to understand that this is a need...
- Mm-hmm. - It’s not a want.
Okay. You need to feel secure in that area.
So that’s definitely one of the questions, you know.
[chuckles] Can you get a job?
- I mean, I haven’t ever asked him that question.
- You’ve never asked him that?
- We haven’t had those conversations,
because I feel-- - Noi, we have to have
those conversations. - I know.
It’s so hard for me. - Why is it hard for you?
- I’m just not used to that in a relationship.
So it’s something that I’m having to get
used to, finding my voice.
- Yeah.
Let’s approach this differently.
I think you need to ask him,
"How are you going to ensure
that I feel financially secure?"
- You think? - Yeah.
- Those exact words, yeah. - Okay, yeah.
And this is a part of how you need to be loved.
- Mm-hmm. - Security.
♪ ♪
It’s one thing to just talk about loving someone.
But it’s something else to talk about loving someone
the way they need to be loved.
And this is a part of how you need to be loved.
- Yeah. - Your need--
your need is deep because of your history.
- Yeah.
- And you can’t discount that at all.
- One thing that may be causing her fear
is you have not taken a job to make sure she feels good
about you as an economic partner.
♪ ♪
And I think she’s voiced that
she needs some stability in her partner.
♪ ♪
So what about this?
Here’s what I wanna plan with you.
Here’s what it would produce.
How do you feel about that?
You know, I’m thinking of the future with you.
Will this make you feel secure?
You know, so I think that’s
one of your first questions to deal with.
And I think the second question is,
you know, basically, can you work out
the issues between us, between us,
and not go outside the relationship?
- So yes, that sounds great to me.
I think I wanna do whatever it takes to create an environment
for her that she can trust, it feels safe,
so that, you know, when we are
in these situations, she does have the tools
or the trust that she can express it, and I’ll, like,
have a better way of dealing with our issues.
But it sets off alarms in my head, right?
Like, if this is how it is now,
it could only get worse from here, you know, those are--
these are these fears that are kind of coming up,
because, you know, it doesn’t fit my
vision of what this was supposed to be,
and it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.
They’re almost like--
I don’t wanna say taken advantage of,
but it makes me feel like I’m being looked at
as like a machine to facilitate
somebody else’s desires, as opposed to working together,
and creating a future that we both see.
- I mean, I think a lot of what Noi does is fear-based.
If we could calm her fears,
so she can be more of a companion,
and not throw things out to think, maybe,
freak you out, she would be better off.
♪ ♪
- ♪ It’s time to be strong. ♪
♪ It’s time to rise above it ♪
- Who are you meeting with? - Dr. Pepper.
- I’m seeing Pastor Cal. - Should be interesting.
- I don’t really know what they’re gonna talk about.
I’m just gonna go with the flow.
Like, what y’all got to say?
To be honest, I don’t know
if I like meeting with these experts too much.
Talking about your feelings all the time,
and yeah, I signed up for it, but it’s just like,
damn, like, it’s just a lot.
[laughs] It’s too much.
- Hey, young lady.
- Hi, Pastor Cal.
How are you? - How are you, my dear?
- Good. - It’s good to see you.
- It’s good to see you, too.
- I wanna talk to you about some things.
Come along with me.
You celebrate your guys’ one month anniversary.
Tell me, how’s marriage? - Marriage is good?
You know, like, I feel like any normal couple,
we get into our little, like, conflicts.
- I mean, well, you’re married, I don’t expect
everything to be, like, just-- - Perfect.
- As long as it’s not just one way.
As long as you both are voicing your opinions
with respect. - Mm-hmm.
- Tell me how things are going now.
- Um, you know, we had a conflict
where he saw I had a dating app on my phone.
- If your friend was married,
and they told you "I have this on the phone,"
would you think that’s [bleep] up?
Answer it. - Of course, but--
- Okay. So that’s all you have to hear, Katina.
- I didn’t know it was there.
I deleted the account.
But I kept the app on there. - Sure, sure.
- So he saw the app, and--
and then for me, I was just upset
with how he approached it, like--
- Yeah, I heard some things. We keep informed.
- Yeah. So, you know, he got, you know, loud.
- You can roll your eyes-- - I’m rolling my eyes...
- But it’s okay! It’s okay-- - Because you’re yelling at me.
That’s why I’m rolling my eyes!
- So then we don’t need to talk!
- For him, like, seeing that was like a trigger.
For me, it was just, if there’s a issue...
- Embarrassing you? - Don’t do it in front--
- Yeah, don’t do it in front of people.
Like, don’t let that happen again.
- That’s one question that would be good
for you guys to just to uncover.
You know, ask him about that trigger.
There’s a reason that a person
does stuff like that. - Mm-hmm.
- This is your time to find out things about him.
’Cause he’s had some hard times.
Ask him, are there deep or private
things about him that has made him who he is
that he hasn’t shared? - Okay.
- Knowing who he is is going to help you
to understand why he acts the way he does.
- Mm-hmm. Do you understand
what I’m saying? - Yeah.
- Tell me how you feel about you guys’ intimacy,
and I know y’all ain’t
advanced it yet. - Yeah.
- What’s up?
- Um... - I don’t want no details,
but what’s up? - I know, I--
no, we’re definitely attracted to each other.
- How do you know he’s attracted to you?
- He’s--Pastor Cal, I thought you don’t want details.
- Okay. [both laugh]
Give me details in a way
that I won’t blush. - Okay.
I’ll be, like, getting ready in the bathroom,
and he’ll come over and, like, hit my butt or, like,
just start, like, kissing on my neck.
Does that sound like attraction?
- Yeah. Well, yeah. - [laughs]
- But that hasn’t led to anything?
- No, there’s a certain feeling that I wanna feel.
Like, oh, my God, like, I’m in love with you.
And I wanna be able to genuinely know that I have
real, valid feelings from you. - Sure.
- Becoming what?
It’s like when you-- - I think I might now.
- [laughs] - I didn’t before.
Is when the sex is so good that lust takes over.
And you can’t think with a clear mind.
Then you think you’ve got all these feelings,
and then when that fades, you’re like,
"I didn’t even like him."
[both laugh] - Okay.
Okay. Here’s my thing, though.
In marriage, lust is good.
- Okay. - You want to be dizzy,
in your-- [both laugh]
Okay? - Yeah.
There’s nothing wrong with that in marriage,
because you two are committed.
The only reason that you would have that caution
in dating is because you don’t know
for sure whether or not this thing’s gonna work.
Honestly, do you have doubts?
- Well, yeah, there’s always gonna be something in my mind.
I’m so used to relationships just ending
for whatever reason, that that’s just naturally
in the back of my head, that nothing lasts forever.
Like, that’s always just there.
I am just guarding my heart as I feel like anybody should do,
especially in a situation where you marry a stranger.
- In your relationship, if you can see an out somewhere
in the future, there’s a possibility that it
won’t work for some other reason,
yeah, it’s gonna--
it’s gonna affect your present.
That’s a single mindset.
- Mm. - It’s not a married mindset.
But I still believe the reason you’re not going there
is because there’s still some doubt.
[upbeat music]
- Hi there, Olajuwon.
Nice to see you again. - How you doing, Dr. Pepper?
How you doing? - I’m doing well, thank you.
I’ve been getting reports about Olajuwon’s
harsh communication style for weeks now.
Now, this could be just the dynamic of their marriage,
but intention is everything.
I need to know where Olajuwon is coming from
when he’s tough with Katina.
I’m looking forward to talking to you.
And I want to check in on what’s been happening.
- Okay.
- We’re trying to find out what you need
to make a decision on Decision Day.
But what I need to know is how you feel things are going.
- I feel like we’re doing well.
Me and Katina have so much in common,
like, as in character.
Even when we have, like, dull moments,
it’s like we find the humor.
We’re very comfortable with each other.
We care. I know she cares about me.
And I definitely care for her.
- So tell me, what improvements
would you like to see in your marriage
that would make you closer and better?
- Just keep being you, Katina.
Keep being vulnerable.
Keep expressing who you are,
show me that you’re solid,
that I have a partner who’s not a shadow.
Like, sometimes I’ll say something,
and I really just want a real opinion from her.
And I feel like she’ll give me an opinion
that she thinks that I like.
- So you want her to feel secure enough
to give her own opinions? - Yes, yeah.
- Well, it might be reassuring, saying, you know,
"I don’t mind if you change-- if you differ from me."
- That’s one of the things.
That’s one of the things. - Anything else?
- Something that really concerns me
I would say, is she had a dating app
on her phone.
And... [clears throat]
She wasn’t using it. [sighs]
But it’s scary, ’cause it’s like,
that should have been gone
right before you put your ring on, you know.
- I did hear about that incident.
And there was something about it that really upset me,
which is you guy-- that you were really
lovey-dovey throughout the dinner.
And then at the very end, you said,
"There’s something I’m really upset about with you."
And you said it in a way
that everybody was kind of taken aback.
- Because I feel like I’ve been fiddled and been fooled,
and I feel like, "Is this [bleep] real?"
So it’s really-- it’s something I don’t wanna
address, because by addressing it right here on camera,
it could get ugly.
- So what about how you talk to her?
The impression I get is that you talk down to her.
- Do I get upset? Absolutely, absolutely.
And do I get a little stern? Absolutely, absolutely.
I’ll take full credit.
But do I talk down to my wife?
Absolutely not.
Do I make her feel belittled?
Absolutely not.
- Did you apologize for embarrassing her?
- Of course, of course, of course.
I--we had a real conversation.
I just told her that
I take this process very serious.
If I didn’t, I wouldn’t care.
- I wonder if you’ve examined your tone,
in terms of how you do talk to her,
because you say it’s good,
but I have heard that you told her
that she’s got no life skills,
that she’s in--
behind you in terms of maturation.
So I’d like to hear your side of that.
- Um...
anybody wants to say something, they could say it to me,
’cause I don’t play those games.
And this is my life. I think--
I don’t even think it’s funny, so--
- Oh, I don’t think that’s funny at all, either.
- No, it’s not funny at all. [scoffs]
- Dr. Pepper, like I-- - I wanna know, that’s all.
- You’re pointing me out to make me look like the bad guy.
But I’m really bothered about all this.
I’m really serious.
If she feels that I treat her that way,
then she should say no on Decision Day.
[dramatic music]
- You told her that
she’s got no life skills,
that she’s in--
behind you in terms of maturation.
- You’re pointing me out to make me look like the bad guy.
But I’m really bothered about all this.
I’m really serious.
If she feels that I treat her that way,
then she should say no on Decision Day.
[tense music]
Dr. Pepper saying the he said, she said.
I’m here for my marriage.
So for her to say that I’m not,
it’s totally disrespectful, 100%.
This is a spit in my face.
- But how would you talk to her in a way
that doesn’t feel demeaning?
[soft music]
I mean, if you feel that she is lacking some
of those skills, how about finding new ways
to talk about things that you two have to work on together?
- We’re talking about week one, week two,
when we’re talking about cooking and stuff.
And I--I did feel that way.
Absolutely, absolutely. - Okay.
Do I feel that way now, towards my wife?
Absolutely not. She has shown me that she--
she can handle her own.
I was going the wrong strategy, at the beginning of this.
I thought if you talk about the things that doesn’t work,
that’s bothering you, that it would make it better.
Katina doesn’t work like that. My wife works the opposite.
It makes her bundle up and just--
I don’t wanna express myself.
Took me a little bit to catch on.
I take full responsibility.
- How does it feel now then?
- My heart is big for Katina.
I tell her, "I see so much growth in you."
I mean, even I think the process,
just itself, not me, has made my wife grow up.
So when we have these conversations,
away from everybody, and it’s the most realest
conversation, and then the next day,
it’s like, brand new, we don’t dwell on things, Dr. Pepper.
I just hope that we can stay more consistent
on just staying on a high route.
- Okay, let’s say right now, if Decision Day was tomorrow,
you’d say...
- I--[scoffs]
I don’t want to give an answer right now.
I feel like it’s just too--
it’s still got a lot of time.
But at the same time,
if she didn’t want to be with me
at the end of this, would I be sad?
Absolutely.
- Okay.
♪ ♪
- ♪ The way you make me feel ♪
♪ I’m hoping this is real ♪
- How was your chat with Dr. Pepper?
- It went really well.
It was just nice to,
I don’t know, just...
talk to an expert, and just say how you feel.
- Are they things that we talked about together?
Or are these things that you have questions in your mind
about that you haven’t talked, um, with me about?
- A little bit of both.
I guess, like, the main thing for me that,
you know, the unanswered question that had come up
just recently was just, you know, that more recent
social media post we haven’t been able to talk about.
And like, you know, it was upsetting to me.
♪ ♪
- Which social media post?
- "When you start to feel like you deserve better, you do."
- Yeah.
- I guess my question for you is,
why is it so important to broadcast to the world
that we’re in distress?
♪ ♪
- Yeah, I can see how you would feel that way.
But that post wasn’t really directed at you.
- Like--like, come on.
You posted, "You deserve better."
So whether or not it’s about me,
people are gonna assume that it’s something
that you’re going through now that you’re married--
- It wasn’t about you.
But sometimes I feel that way,
in our marriage.
- [breathes deeply]
Like, that’s like-- that’s a hurtful thing to say.
- I mean, I understand that you’re
upset about it, and you’re frustrated.
And one of the things that we talked about
with, like, Pastor Cal, was, like, social media,
and he said that, you know, when you’re married,
if you’re having issues or whatever,
you know, that’s not really something
that you should open up to the public.
So like, I totally understand what you’re saying--
I understand why you’re upset, I understand what he’s saying,
but at the same time, like, it’s, like, my social media.
So, like, I have a choice to do that if I feel like it.
- Did you not agree with Pastor Cal?
Like, I feel like he-- - I mean, I agree with him,
but he’s separate from me.
You’re separate from me,
I’m my own person. I can make these decisions.
So like, yeah, I see his perspective,
I see your perspective, respect it.
But like-- - Do you respect it though?
♪ ♪
Like, I’m not-- I’m not walking away from this
conversation with feeling comfortable
that it’s not gonna happen again.
I don’t know how else to say this.
This is not what I w-- like, it’s not
something that I want in a relationship.
It goes against everything I believe in.
I mean, I need-- - I mean, we have
very different perspectives.
We agree to disagree. [chuckles]
- You’re telling the world that I’m not enough for you.
Like, it doesn’t make me feel like we’re on the same team.
Like, I’m curious to know what more you deserve.
Can we maybe go that route now?
I know it’s something that’s been weighing on you.
What is it?
What more do you deserve?
Like what--like, what can I do?
Or what can somebody do?
[soft music]
- Well, I guess that’s one of the things that
Pastor Cal and I talked about too.
So, like, I need a partner who can show me
that they’re, like, financially secure.
I didn’t have, like, money as a child.
Like, we were just always so poor.
Like, everything I have, like, I just had to work so hard.
And, like, everyone in my family works so hard.
And, like, for us, it’s, like, not a big deal to be like,
"No, we wanna work hard, because we want so much more."
And I’m not a complacent person.
I know exactly what I want.
And I usually get it.
It’s hard for me, because I love you.
But at the same time, I feel like, you know,
you’re just so relaxed about, like, finances.
You’re like, "Oh, we’ll just, like, figure it out."
And, like, for me, like, it’s just really unnerving.
Like, how--
how are you going to...
Make me feel financially secure?
How are you gonna show up for me?
- One of the best parts of meeting with Dr. Pepper
is, like, you know, just talking about
having a full-time job, or having a plan to make money.
Let’s have that conversation.
Let’s sit down and talk about the options that we could
potentially go down, like, whatever is acceptable,
whatever seems like that would make sense for us.
I’m all for that type of planning.
And I want to give you that security.
♪ ♪
I wanna sit down and make that plan.
But do you feel like once it is set and worked on,
that you’ll feel--
You know, you’ll get what you need from me
to trust and believe in my husband, you know?
- Yeah, I think--
I think it’ll take time.
You know, I think I need to see
what his plan is before I feel secure.
- ♪ If I get to love, love, love, love ♪
♪ Love you again ♪
- ♪ I look around ♪
♪ And no one’s there ♪
♪ Just me, myself, and I on a cold day ♪
♪ So what can I do, yeah ♪
- So right now, I’m about to go sit down with Pastor Cal,
and hopefully he gives me
some words of wisdom on my marriage
and the difficulties that we’re going through.
I would say right now I’m very mentally drained.
And I’m exhausted.
My biggest fear in this moment is that nothing’s gonna change,
every day, over the next three weeks
and that we’re gonna keep on doing
the same things to each other.
And I’m gonna get to a point of,
I don’t have an answer, so I’m just gonna say no.
Hopefully he says something that resonates,
where it helps me navigate a direction to go.
Because right now I’m kind of going down the middle.
I don’t know which way to go in this marriage.
- How you doing, buddy? - I’m okay.
[both laugh] Trying my best.
- There are some realities that I came here
to talk to you about.
I wanna talk about how you react,
how you respond. - Mm.
- Her delivery...
Okay.
- If this is your idea of a romantic dinner,
never plan one again for me.
No, no, no, we’re talking about right now.
You’re asking if we’re on a team.
- I’m good. I’m good. - That’s what I thought.
Walk away. Call your mom.
See if she can let you in tonight.
- Have another drink.
- Just don’t talk to me, that’s what I mean.
- No problem.
[both laugh] - Okay.
- That’s-- - No, I--
I know Lindsey. - Yeah.
- Her delivery we can work on.
Okay? - Okay.
- People deliver based on
how they’re feeling at the moment.
They don’t always think about
how the person’s gonna receive it.
Sometimes they just shoot.
If you don’t tell someone
how to treat you, they will treat you
however they want to treat you.
- Right. - The whole purpose of this
is to find out what is it that you need
to know from her?
Let’s get some clear questions. - Okay.
- Let’s find out, what is the root?
Or why is it that you communicate so aggressively?
What is her reason? - Yeah, why do you go to that
place when I inadvertently hurt you?
Why do you go to such a mean place to hurt me?
- Good. - But it’s interesting how,
the way that we argue, her energy in the fight’s
so much that it’s like, reminds me of past experiences.
- Remind you of what? - My parents fighting, I think.
- Your mom. - Yeah.
- Reminds you of your mom specifically.
- Like, my mom was really depressed for a long time.
She’s depressed about the way her life turned out.
And she can’t get out of that way.
So that’s her-- that’s her MO every day.
It’s frustration.
It really set the table for things
I don’t want in a marriage.
- The way you saw your mom argue,
and scream at, and fuss at your dad.
That’s a trigger for you.
- I think so.
- Do you feel like caring for your mom?
- Yes. - Why?
- Because she did...
She did everything for me.
- She did everything for you. - Yeah.
- Are you afraid of being your father?
[somber music]
- Um.
You know, I’ve never been asked that.
♪ ♪
- Your father--or your mother argued at your father.
You said sometimes he would say nothing.
- He wouldn’t say anything for her
to just start arguing with him.
- Here’s what I want you to see, Mark.
♪ ♪
Lindsey is not your mom.
- No.
- She isn’t. - Okay.
- If you give her what she wants,
which is knowing that you’re in it--
she needs that security from you.
And if she feels that, I bet you’re going to see
a lot of your arguing subside.
- I just figured we would communicate better.
I figured, when you spend this much time with someone...
- [sighs]
Mark, Mark...
your expectations are gonna seriously screw you up,
because you’re saying it should be this way.
It should be that way.
By now, this should have happened.
By now, that should--
Says who?
Again, you’ve never been married.
You don’t know how it should be.
- Right. - You don’t.
By now, you guys would have--
you both would have decided that it’s not worth it,
and she hasn’t decided that yet.
And you haven’t either.
Have you?
[dramatic music]
- No.
I just want us to be healthy.
- You can be. - Okay.
- There’s no question, you can be healthy.
[upbeat music]
♪ ♪
- Hi. - Hi, Lindsey.
- How are you? - I’m good.
- How do you like your coffee?
- I put something white in it. I like--I’ll do milk.
- Cheers. [mugs clink]
- [chuckles] Come over here for a minute.
’Cause it’s more comfortable.
And then I won’t have to look up.
[both laugh] - I know.
I’m sorry.
I should’ve known not to wear heels.
- Tell me about...
The tough parts, the struggle parts.
- [sighs]
So Mark’s a really genuinely nice man.
I think he always has really good intent.
But I am seeing a pattern.
My issue with Mark
is two parts.
One is consistency.
He’s really consistently inconsistent.
And it feels like whiplash to me.
It’s hard for me to just keep giving all in.
I said to him, "I’m gonna give you all my love
on the first day, and then when you lose it, you lose it."
For me, that’s just how I’ve always been like,
I’m gonna love everybody fully and freely.
- Don’t forecast.
Don’t forecast. - What do you mean forecast?
- "When you lose it, it’s gone forever."
Just don’t do that.
That already sets up like, "Okay, if you’re not loving him
at this moment, now it’s gone forever."
He’s gonna be defensive.
It’s gonna be up and down. - Mm.
- Don’t forecast what’s gonna happen.
Talk about the present.
- I think my biggest concern is that,
Mark, you seem to pour into everybody except you.
And that affects me now.
And I wannna make sure that you are reserving
your time and energy for me, for you,
so we can pour into one another.
♪ ♪
- How else could you say that?
Because that’s a criticism. - Yeah.
- You have to tell him what it makes you feel
in a way that doesn’t say,
in the back of his mind, "You’re a bum."
You know, "You’ve--you’re a bad person, you’ve betrayed me."
Those are all kinds of things that are gonna
build into fences. - Mm.
- But let’s say there was something that
bothered you that sounded like that to you.
Instead of responding to it, how about saying,
"You know that-- that sounds bad to me.
"What do you mean?
What are you really trying to say to me?"
[soft music]
I think you need to ask him questions.
That will get you in a better place
and get you what you want.
Remember, anger is not your friend in this marriage.
- Madness for me is always a mask for sadness.
And that’s-- that’s sometimes and often
the root of me.
- I don’t blame you for being mad or sad.
But reach for the sad.
Am I not enough, or what’s going on?
Or does he not understand me?
These are all real things.
And I can see that, I can see in your eyes--
- I just feel sad all the time.
It’s too much to dive into.
- You don’t-- You’re sad all the time--
- I literally almost always feel sad, all the time.
- Tell me about that.
- It’s just, you know...
I always feel like...
♪ ♪
There are good moments,
but literally, it’s just bad things on top of another.
It’s just always been...
bad things on top of another.
And so for me, I’m like,
yes, I’m happy because I wanna enjoy my life
and, like, make the most of it and hopefully,
like, influence others, but everything is sad to me.
Like my mom, she really said some
awful things and treated me really badly.
When I was younger, my mom was real quick
to cut me down to size
and kind of never really showed true love.
And that would make me think, "Am I angry, or am I sad?"
And I realized that it’s very much affected me.
I know that if I get mad...
typically, it’s because I feel really
hurt and sad about something I can’t change.
- You say the anger comes from sadness.
So go there.
Go to your sadness, not to your anger.
♪ ♪
I’m not saying any of this is easy.
But I think it’s important to get
on positive footing and to breed kindness,
and some softening, some questions.
So I’m not trying to change his life,
so much as creating the space you need
for your life together.
And we want that, not of course as much as you,
but we want it for you, and I want it for you.
♪ ♪
- I think we stand a good chance.
He told me that he’s starting to care about me,
and protect--feel for me and want to protect me.
And I think he told me... - That’s very cool.
- "Do you feel the same way?" And I said,
"It’s been tough for me, Mark."
I’ve shifted now, where I’m in this place where
I’m a little more negative than I would ever wanna be.
And it’s because I-- I’ve gotta flip back, you know?
- Say yes.
But give him the reassurance.
He just put out a bid.
He’s saying, "I’m getting there.
I’m feeling for you."
I mean, never refuse a bid.
You can modify it, but-- - Don’t shut it down.
- Yeah, don’t shut it down.
Never shut anything positive coming your way.
- Yeah.
- I’m gonna give you three questions
I want you to ask Mark.
One is, what does he think love is now?
- Mm-hmm.
- Can he define what is an emotional connection to him?
And can he walk away from a disagreement
before it gets too ugly or too heated?
Let him know when you’re hurt and give him
your emotions in a way that don’t invite combat.
- Yeah.
- ♪ I gotta change for the better now ♪
- ♪ So is there anywhere that you don’t exist? ♪
♪ Ooh, ah, ooh, ah ♪
♪ Ooh, ah, ooh ♪
♪ ♪
- You ready?
- I am ready.
- Can’t wait to hear what she has to say.
You know, they be watching everything.
- I know.
- Today, I think talking to Dr. Pepper
will help me make sense of a lot of things.
You know, I’m gonna talk to her about
what would possibly make me say no on Decision Day.
- I have a lot to talk to Pastor Cal about.
I want to let him know that, you know, I am trying my best,
but I feel like, for whatever reason,
there’s still things about our marriage that scares me.
- ♪ Can’t tell if this is love or not ♪
♪ But I sure wanna figure it out ♪
♪ Can’t tell if this is real or not ♪
- Michael, what’s up, man?
- Pastor Cal, good to see you.
- How you doing, buddy?
- All right, well, let’s sit down for a second.
- So how’s it going?
- It’s been a--it’s been a roller coaster.
- Uh-huh.
- A lot of progress has been made.
- Okay, well, progress is good.
- But since we’re approaching the big Decision Day,
we still have a lot of work to do.
- How are you feeling?
- You know, I’m actually glad that, for once, when I see
an expert, I can say, like, I’m feeling good.
- Oh, I like that too!
- The question now is, how do you feel about where you are?
- To be honest, over the time where I was doing
things for her, it was strictly out of, like, obligation.
I didn’t feel connected to Jasmina specifically.
I was just doing things because I’m a husband
and I made these vows. - Mm-hmm.
- But as I said, I’m finally at a point where
I’m no longer doing those things because I’m a husband,
I’m doing those things because I--I like you.
- [sighs]
Michael, I want you to see the progression
of doing the work and then the feelings come.
- Mm.
- You feel me? - Yeah.
- That’s what you did. - I didn’t put that together.
- Yeah, but I want--I want you to--I want you to see that.
- Yeah.
- The same thing is going to happen with her.
- Yeah.
- So what I’d like to know from you is,
what are the things that worry you?
What are the questions you have that are going
to be very important in terms of getting you
to the place where you feel you have the husband
you’re going to commit to on Decision Day?
- I mean, what worries me is I don’t know enough
about his past.
He always says his past is the reason
why he is the way he is.
So I would like more of those conversations,
but I do stress, like, I really need to know you.
Like, I can’t be married to a stranger.
- Do you feel that you’re giving him enough support?
Some of those things you have to feel
more trust about before you talk about them.
- Michael and I are different when it comes to trust, like,
he is somebody that you have to, like, earn that trust.
And for me, I’ve always trusted people
unless they gave me a reason not to.
- So this is about, right now, where you guys are
at a point where you’re starting to create trust again,
and she has to know that you have her back.
She has to know that I can be vulnerable with him,
I can be intimate with him and feel safe.
For men and women, safety is so very important.
- For sure.
- And I believe she wants to be--to have
some kind of touch.
What would happen if you reached over and touched her?
- I don’t know.
- Why haven’t you tried?
- I haven’t tried because, you know,
we used to kiss good night.
And weeks later, we unpacked that,
and she was doing it out of obligation
because she felt like, as a wife, she’s supposed
to do those things, even though she didn’t feel
compelled to because she didn’t feel connected to me.
So when I heard that I said, "I don’t want you to do
anything out of obligation."
- But that was a dumb move.
- On my part? - Oh, yeah.
- Damn, okay. - Let me tell you why.
You said I did things just because I knew
that this was something I needed to do.
And eventually, I got to the point
where I really wanted to do it. - Yeah.
- She was doing something as a wife because she felt
that that’s what she needed to do.
It would have gotten to a point where she was,
after a while, where she really wanted to do it.
- Yeah.
- You understand what’s happening here?
- Yeah, I see.
- How do you reverse that?
Do things that engender intimacy.
Compliment her,
and then I want you to initiate touch.
Gentlemanly-- I ain’t worried about that.
I know you ain’t gonna just reach over just grab her.
- Yeah, Pastor Cal told me.
- Right. [laughter]
- I’m a very sexual person, I’ll be honest, but it’s just,
am I feeling anything from that?
And I don’t if I don’t have an emotional
connection to someone.
- You know, one way to encourage
his connection to you is to have more touch between you.
- Yeah, it’s not that I feel uncomfortable if he touches me,
it’s just I don’t feel anything when he touches me.
♪ ♪
- It strikes me, though, that now that you’re relaxing
into trying to find out who each of you are, that it would
be good to have some of your conversations holding hands
or sitting next to each other, to give each other that sort
of body intimacy that says you’re more than friends,
and that you’re trying to be husband and wife.
♪ ♪
- What would be another question you would ask her?
- I think my biggest concern is, do we have enough
time to really build an emotional connection?
- Do you guys have a connection now?
- Yeah, we have connection now, I would say.
- How do you think you got it?
- Once we had open dialogue with each other--
- Why did you have that open dialogue?
- Because things weren’t working out.
- Right now, you guys are doing better
because of the open dialogue. - Yeah.
- You know where I’m going here.
- I do.
- You guys went through those trials,
you went through that crap, you went through that--
those arguments, you did all that.
Now I need you to arise as the husband.
♪ ♪
- You could be in the best marriage in the world
and sometimes you don’t feel like being physical
with your husband or your wife.
That’s just part of the deal.
- I think why I don’t do it is because sometimes
I am caught up in a moment, but I don’t--I’m not
caught up in a moment all the time.
- But life is moments, and I think
it’s very reassuring to give him those moments
whenever they’re there, authentic.
And that could be just a gesture
of affection or comfort, but if you withhold that,
he’s gonna think that you never feel that way.
I think he needs to know.
I think you need to know from him
that there’s even momentary affection because I think both
of you have good hearts, but they have to be exposed.
- ♪ It doesn’t matter where you come from ♪
♪ It only matters where you end up ♪
♪ The story’s never the beginning ♪
♪ Oh, it’s always how you finish ♪
[soft music] ♪ ♪
- I’m not too concerned about the things that Lindsey’s
gonna ask me, but I do get nervous
about Lindsey’s answers to my questions
because there’s been many times I’ve given her feedback
that is important to me and not felt
affirmed on the things I asked her.
And parts of me worry that the cracks in our marriage
are gonna get bigger.
- ♪ You turn me up a notch ♪
♪ And then drop me to pieces ♪
- Hey. - Hey.
- How you doing?
- Good, how are you doing?
- Really hungry.
- What kind of chicken is this?
[utensils clattering] - [clucking]
That kind. - Oh, okay.
[tense music]
♪ ♪
- So how was Pepper?
- Uh, she’s great. - Yeah.
- What about you and Cal?
- It’s, like, interesting, the things
that we talked about, they kind of brought
to the surface things I didn’t realize was happening.
- Like what?
- He was like, "Do you ever think that you’re
"like your dad in these situations when she’s talking
to you in such a tone that she’s like your mom?"
And I never really thought of it that way, ever.
And it just, like, struck, like, a emotional chord.
[soft music]
♪ ♪
- Are you okay?
What’s up, babe?
- It’s just--it’s been an emotional day
with all these questions.
♪ ♪
- You know, I never want to see him hurt or in pain.
You know, he had some tragedy and I had some trauma,
and I think both of us have a lot of work to do.
But if this is gonna work out,
we need to dig through the mud and find some answers.
- One of the questions I was trying to figure out was,
why, when you get upset, you go to such a place of hurt.
♪ ♪
Say I do something that doesn’t sit well with you.
Can you explain it to me empathetically,
versus the tone that you do?
Because that triggers my mom yelling at my dad.
I think for me, that’s been my biggest thing,
and everything is just trying to really learn
where it comes from so that I can show you
affection that you’re deserving of.
♪ ♪
- I think when I try to explain myself and I’m not heard,
and somebody raises their voice or dismisses me,
it makes me feel completely invalued.
And I think sometimes when I say, "This hurts me,"
I don’t know how to say it in a way in which to get you
to understand it hurts me, and I think two ways happen.
One, if I try it twice, you say,
"Oh, you’re nagging," and you shut down.
Or you’re quick to get defensive and reactive.
Then I’m gonna fight with you too.
Like, if you want to go there, I can go there too.
You don’t care? Well, then I don’t care too.
You don’t need me. I don’t need you either.
Like, that’s just my instant reaction.
♪ ♪
- I think we really need to equally work on things.
volume, the way you say something
so it pulls out an emotion from me,
that I can give you an emotion.
Because if we can communicate, then we can do anything.
Do you have any questions for me?
- I do.
Can you define what love is to you?
- When someone accepts me for everything I am, the good,
the bad, the uncomfortable, and doesn’t really try
to change me too much, you know?
I’ve always said to myself in my own thoughts,
like, whoever, you know, marries me
is gonna have to be right there once Mom and Nana go.
Like, that person’s gonna have to,
not be my mother, but have to have that, like, motherly,
unconditional protection, love, that I was given.
And I know that you want to do that
’cause you’ve been wanting to do that since day one.
♪ ♪
So I need you to know, if I didn’t see
enough good in you, I wouldn’t be here.
I ain’t going anywhere.
♪ ♪
- I think Mark answered all three questions
to the best of his ability.
It’s really nice to hear exactly what I wanted to hear.
This feels exciting. This feels hopeful.
- ♪ Be my baby, can we quit the games? ♪
♪ I’ve been drunk from you for nine whole days ♪
♪ And I still want more ♪
♪ And I still want you ♪
♪ ♪
- My meeting with Dr. Pepper was amazing.
She’s so sweet!
She definitely helped me get some questions together
for Mike, which I definitely plan on asking him.
Like, I need more to go off of.
Because if I don’t know who you are as a person, that’s not
someone that I can say yes to, you know, on Decision Day.
So I actually can’t wait to see what he was saying about me.
I’ll keep you posted.
♪ ♪
How’d it go?
- Um, it went well.
I always--I like--I always like talking to Pastor Cal.
- What did you guys speak about?
- Soon as I’d seen him, I was like, "Listen.
I have some good news." - [laughs]
- We’ve made a lot of progress since the last time we spoke.
So that was good to be able to tell him.
So I’m sure you got asked the same question,
is what you’re saying?
- Um, the first thing we really spoke about was trust.
Like, what can I do to make you trust me?
- It’s funny, ’cause it goes into
one of my questions that I have for you.
What would make me trust you more is feeling like
you are comfortable being vulnerable with me.
- Well, you say in order for you to trust me,
you need me to be more vulnerable,
and I’m saying the only way for me to be more vulnerable
is if I feel like you care
and you’re putting in an effort.
Like, that wasn’t a door that I was gonna open again
if I didn’t feel like you were putting in
the same amount of effort.
- So where are you now with that?
- No, I--I believe you when you say, like,
you know, you really want this to work.
And I’ve seen the effort that you put in
with the communication and, you know,
the way that you listen to me.
So I’m definitely becoming more vulnerable.
Like, I’m not, like, purposely holding it back now.
- So we’re past that. - Yeah.
- Okay, good.
- Okay, you can start off with the second one.
- The second one was, do you think chemistry
is something that can be built over time?
- Wow, that actually falls into one of my questions.
- Are you serious?
- So I told Dr. Pepper, if it comes Decision Day
and, like, we’re not physical, but I have feelings for you,
I know that that physical will come because of those feelings.
So my worry is not, oh, my God, we’re not
physical before Decision Day.
It’s--it’s having-- having the feelings.
And that comes into my third one,
which is, like conversations.
And I told her, like, I don’t really know you as a person.
We don’t have those deep, dark, raw conversations
about the past and stuff.
- Yeah, I hear what you’re saying.
I think those conversations become easier
now that we’re in the space that we’re in.
Because I can say I generally like being around you now.
I feel like I--I’m at a place with you where
I’m willing and want to have those conversations.
- Mm.
- Do you genuinely feel like that’s enough time for you
to build that strong emotional bond that you’re looking for?
♪ ♪
- I mean, when you look at it,
it depends on how much we’re doing, how much we’re growing,
the efforts that we’re putting in.
It could be enough. - We gotta make it enough.
- But I’m also scared that it might not be enough.
- What would make it not be enough?
- If we’re not doing all those things that--like I said.
- Yeah. - You know?
- ♪ I don’t feel like running ♪
♪ I just wanna stay ♪
♪ ♪
- Come on over.
We are finally getting the opportunity to have
the discussion around finances and future planning.
Noi’s been expressing this concern about
where things stand and what my plan is.
And so I’ve been trying to have this
conversation for a while now.
I think it’ll help clarify a lot of things
between us and also put her mind at ease.
So I have a separate section of finances
so we can definitely talk
specifically about finances there.
- I am really nervous to have this discussion.
- Savings, division of tasks, finances--
I guess we’ll put it under here.
- Only because it’s really unnerving for me to think
about my partner not having
their financial house in order.
I need to know that he’s gonna be able to help me
pay the bills.
♪ ♪
- Let’s start with our accounts.
- I think we should have our own individual accounts,
but we should have one joint account
for all expenses that are shared.
- Yeah, that makes sense.
Um, division of tasks.
You do think dividing it evenly is fair.
- I mean, if we’re both working, yeah.
- Yeah, my--you know, my main question here
is do you need me to be working full time
in order for you to feel secure?
- I mean, like, for me, I need to see some sort of income.
♪ ♪
If you--you had a plan for whatever you want to do,
like, that would make me feel so much better.
Because, right now, like, I don’t really
have anything, you know?
- Gotcha. - Yeah.
- That makes sense.
The first option that I can think of, right,
I get a full time position
and we’re both working full time.
You know, I’m not opposed to working
a full time position, but it also could
very possibly be, it may not be necessary, right?
If I can make the same or more--more money
than I would full time and create
other opportunities, then great, right?
♪ ♪
I know maybe you’re more used to, you know,
having a full time position and working for somebody,
but I have done entrepreneurial ventures before,
and that’s another possibility.
You know, so I’ve been thinking about that a lot,
and I would definitely need you on board, you know,
if that was something you were comfortable with.
Again, if it wasn’t, we can explore other opportunities.
♪ ♪
But, yeah, I understand what you need from me there.
Another possibility, you know, maybe you want
to take some time for yourself as well.
I don’t know if it’s--if it’s something you ever imagined,
but, you know, when you want more time
for other things so that you can fully enjoy and appreciate
these last moments of, you know--not freedom,
but not being committed to raising children.
So that’s another possibility as well.
♪ ♪
So, okay, let’s bounce up to finances.
Like, I guess, in your ideal setting,
like, what--you know, when you’re talking about kids,
what timeframe were you thinking?
Five years from now? Tomorrow?
Somewhere in between?
- You know, it’s not necessarily something that,
you know, I feel like we’ll be ready for,
but I would love to have my first child
within the next year.
- Okay, um...
- Is that-- was that the timeline
that you were thinking of?
Or did you think...
- That’s something I’m definitely--definitely
comfortable with. Yeah, totally.
- Oh, really? Oh, okay.
- So yeah, let’s just say target date--
target--roughly, we’ll say roughly...
- But yeah--yeah, I would like my first child by next year.
- Gotcha, okay, looks like we’re gonna have a busy month.
[laughter]
- Oh, one last one, actually, before we close this button.
Baby diapers.
So baby diapers can be done equally.
- Whoever has the time and energy
will change the baby’s diaper.
You’re not gonna leave your child
with a dirty diaper, you know that, right?
- Right, but--
- So whoever sees the dirty diaper first will do it.
- Uh-uh, um, changing diapers-- yeah, it’s not
top of my list of things I enjoy.
Maybe--it may be different with my own children.
- I think it’s a good bonding experience for you because you
didn’t get to carry the child in your womb.
- Oh, thank you. - You know?
I’m doing you a favor. - You know what? It’s okay.
- I’m giving you that time with your baby.
- I have all these other bonding techniques.
I don’t want to take this away from you.
[both laughing]
[upbeat music]
- ♪ You been on that sweet life, sweet life ♪
♪ Baby I’ma live a sweet life ♪
- Today we were supposed to be meeting up
with other couples to go play volleyball.
Unfortunately, I woke up with this crazy
headache, so I decided to stay back, get some rest.
Feels kind of strange to send my husband off
to do something without me, but I hope he has fun.
- Autumn. - Yeah?
- So today we’re playing volleyball.
- Okay. - I need some pointers.
[laughs]
- ♪ Baby, I’ma live a sweet life, sweet life ♪
♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪
- You know, smack it like--
just hit it--hit it hard.
- Okay, all right, cool, cool.
This is--this is good, this is good stuff.
- I feel ready, Coach.
- ♪ Whoo! ♪
♪ Cheers to the weekend, everybody ♪
♪ Let me see your cups up, show me how you party ♪
- I’m sorry, sir, my husband doesn’t
know how to drive that well.
- Excuse me--no, excuse me.
♪ ♪
- ♪ Cheers to the weekend, whoo! ♪
- Today, we have a little surprise for our couples.
Now, unbeknownst to them, Dr. Pepper and I
are here watching their every move.
We want to see if any unanswered questions remain,
if they’ve taken the advice that we’ve given,
and see if we can offer any course corrections
to get them on the right track.
- Here they are.
- Okay, all right.
- Well, you ready? - Yeah, I am.
- Let’s find out what they’ve been up to.
- I know. All right.
- Mark and I and Steve and you two?
- We’ve had so many tough conversations with our couples
this week, so Dr. Pepper and I want to see how they get
along with each other during a purely fun activity.
We’re hoping to see some interaction that shows us
that their relationship is on the right trajectory.
[laughter]
- Wait, wait, wait, wait!
- What? Just the effort.
Yo!
- That’s why--that’s why you messed it up!
Look at her!
- Oh, they had a little thing worked out,
taking their clothes off together.
- ♪ It’s time to go, get out there ♪
♪ ♪
♪ Do something with yourself ♪
♪ Move till you’re out of breath ♪
♪ Shake till there’s nothin’ left ♪
- All right. - Just hit up--up.
- Okay.
- I think Olajuwon is the only one who’s talked
to his wife about anything.
- You got it, Katina!
- Oh, who’s got it?
- That was good, though. - Katina let it fall.
- Oh, that was not her best effort.
- ♪ It’s time to go, get out there ♪
♪ Do something with yourself ♪
- Hey! - You got it.
[laughter]
- I got you, baby, I won’t let you fall.
- She’s on the ground again. - Yeah.
- It’s going down.
- Mike. - That was you, Mike.
- I had sand in my eye, that don’t count!
- ♪ Get out there, all right ♪
♪ You gotta bump and grind ♪
♪ Keep working that behind ♪
♪ Girl, making you so fine ♪
- No, that’s good-- that’s good, play it!
You hit that, Lindsey.
Oh, right there.
- Oh!
- That was sickening.
- Steve was doing a very good job today for Team Meyer.
- Steve is very--wait a minute.
How is it Team Meyer? He’s a Moy.
- Because--because there’s two out of three
Meyers, so it’s clearly--
- How about we be the M&M, the Moy and Meyer.
- No, we’re not a chocolate candy.
- Okay.
- That was a good workout. - That was good.
- That was a good workout.
- Switching right now. Take over.
- I have to tell you.
[laughter]
- So how’s everyone doing in their marriage?
- [laughs]
- I mean, we’re in a better place where--the sort of place
where you have to get, like--we have a short amount of time
till Decision Day so there’s still a lot of conversations
that we have to have with each other in order
to feel like we really, really understand each other
at the core, and that’s what we’re
focusing on right now, is having deeper and deeper
conversations to really get to know each other.
- Well, that’s good.
- I’ll wait till you finish eating.
- No, you go ahead.
- What’s going on?
- This past week, we had some tough days and it just was
such strong arguments that, like, I feel like some things
were just said that were, like, a little...
- We both cut each other, like, in words.
- Goin’ for the--goin’ for the hurt.
- Like, when I want to say how I feel--side note,
there’s, like, one volleyball stuck in the middle
of the sprinkler up there on the very top
and I just want to know the story
of how that got there.
- She diverts. She always does that.
She diverts from the serious issues
to say something that’s completely irrelevant.
- But it’s tough for me because I keep trying
to make adjustments, but we’re just different.
It’s just a very different--
I have a very different perspective.
I’m a little bit more protective of me and what
I deserve, versus what I want to give to someone.
- Don’t cry, Lindsey.
- They’re both afraid of their emotions.
- They really are.
- But she’s at least expressing them.
- She’s very real with herself.
She knows--she knows herself, she really does.
- Yeah, and I think Mark’s a great guy.
Like, I think he’s wonderful.
But--thank you, babe, it doesn’t mean that,
you know, like...
Sometimes the best intentions don’t
necessarily have the best delivery and I think
that sometimes we get in that loophole.
- He needs to give her something.
- He--he so does--he so does, he really does.
- She’s reaching out to him now, he’s not very--
- He’s not responding at all.
He’s not responding at all.
- No, she made a bid.
She couldn’t be leaning over to him more, and he’s...
- What’s he doing?
- Nothing right now.
- Yeah, we’re doing good.
- I would say my wife and I are doing very well.
Our communication is-- every day, we’re working on it.
And I want to let you guys know,
I apologize for how the dinner ended last time I seen y’all.
I’m not gonna tiptoe around nobody,
’cause I don’t do that, so...
but you guys got to see, I care for my wife.
And Dr. Pepper, she had some concerns.
And I said, "Okay, let’s talk about it."
She said, "What bothers me, and it’s clear,
"you belittle your wife, and you make yourself
seem more superior."
So I said to Dr. Pepper is, I said,
"No, I think you got the wrong perception of us."
My wife is very reserved, and I’m--I think I speak a lot.
I like to talk, we all know that.
And so if I’m talking a lot it could seem like maybe
I’m talking, like, trying to belittle you or something.
I asked my wife, "Do I belittle you?"
And that’s the same reaction I got,
it was just a laugh and, like, I can’t believe
your conversation was this.
She said I heard--I heard, so I had to remind
Dr. Pepper or tell her, "It’s cool that you heard,
but I’m a grown man, I don’t do the he said, she said game."
And I feel like, as a expert, you shouldn’t take
the he said, she said.
Get a good grasp of two people and then bring it--
bring the manner up, but don’t go off of
he said, she said because, Dr. Pepper, did it help me?
Not at all.
- Wow.
- 90% of it was a waste, I’m gonna be honest with you.
[dramatic music]
Like, I felt like it was a waste because I could have
met with a expert and really talked about something
that helps my marriage, but I didn’t.
We--it was more of me catching Dr. Pepper up because she had
no clue of what has been going on, and she made it clear.
- Keep talking, Olajuwon.
- If--if you’re gonna feed something to the experts,
feed something that’s gonna help my marriage,
not keep bringing negative [bleep] to us.
- Okay, let’s go.
- That’s why I thought the expert with me,
Dr. Pepper, was such a waste.
[tense music]
♪ ♪
- Oh, my God.
[laughter]
- Oh!
♪ ♪
- I thought the expert with me, Dr. Pepper,
was such a waste.
[tense music]
- Oh, my God.
[laughter]
- Oh!
- What’s up? - Wow!
- We wanted to talk to you guys.
We’ve been listening to your conversations.
- [bleep].
- And we really think there’s lots to talk about.
♪ ♪
So we want to go over all the couples
and underline some advice, maybe.
- Don’t look at me like I’m the first victim.
[laughter]
- Well, we’ll make you the second.
- Okay.
- What I did in my interview with Olajuwon
that he loved so much
was to have him interpret what I was hearing
for the people who watch him every day
so that you can clear up, from his point of view,
what his marriage is and is not,
and how it has changed from the beginning to this period.
You may disagree on what was being said,
or what was shared with me, but we’re really not here
to go back and forth on that.
The important thing is that the marriage is going well,
that you care about each other,
that you’re feeling closer to one another.
So to me, that’s a win, regardless of anything else.
♪ ♪
- Maybe in our one on one, she--it didn’t come out right.
So I was happy that she--she cleared the air, but this
is me and Katina’s marriage, and this is how we get along.
We can’t shape it to make America happy,
or anybody else happy.
We’re gonna shape it that makes her and I
both excited to see each other.
- Nothing is always perfect.
Your relationship’s not perfect,
and you know that, okay?
But the one thing that I do know about you,
Katina, is that you have resolution in mind.
So irrespective of what’s going on,
your first thing is how do we resolve this?
How do I bring peace?
That is a beautiful thing, and that’s what
you need in your in your world.
This woman is exactly what you need.
I hope you’re hearing me, boy.
This woman is exactly what you need, do you hear me?
- I always say it, that’s one of the best
things I love about my match.
And I’m not in love, but we resolve things
and I think it’s because it’s in her--it’s in her.
- Can I speak to that real quick?
You said, "I’m not in love."
- Yes. - Right?
Are you committed to her?
- Yeah, absolutely-- absolutely, yeah.
- Do you want anybody else?
- No--no, we just got married.
- I’m just asking you--I’m just asking you.
- No--no.
- Okay, all right, all right, all right.
Love is making a decision to commit
to fulfilling another person’s legitimate needs.
The feelings come after that. - Right.
- And most people are in love before they think they are.
- Love’s not a yes or no question.
Love is something that grows, you know?
I feel more in love with my husband
than I did in the beginning.
Doesn’t mean I wasn’t in love in the beginning,
it just gets bigger.
- Yeah, you’re growing into it. - Yeah.
- All right, you’re not falling in it.
- Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
My feelings are growing every day with Katina,
but love is a deep word,
and I can’t know if I can say the L word yet.
But um, I am 100% committed to my wife.
- Well, let me move on to--to you guys.
Don’t look scared. [laughter]
- Mark looks scared all the time.
- He does, he’s got the signature look.
- It’s like...
- So we talked about that a lot of your anger
comes from sadness.
And I get it, but anger is exactly the thing
that makes him shut down because of his past.
And so I just would like to remind you,
if you could go to why it hurts, why you feel bad,
I think that would stop this escalation of pain
being expressed through anger back and forth.
Because it just isn’t helping you guys.
But, Mark, she was really reaching out to you there,
and then you couldn’t have gotten
further away in your chair.
And I get that would be the reactive thing to do,
but if you could even just touch when you’re upset,
it shows you’re still in connection,
even if you’re upset.
- Lindsey needs to know that you are there.
Show her that you’re--you know, that you’re there, man.
And I know--and we talked about because
I asked you the question, are you in this?
And you said, yeah, I’m in it.
I’m--yeah, I’m not--I’m not going nowhere, I’m in it.
Have you told her that?
- I told her that night. - You told her that that night?
- Yeah. - He told you that that night?
- I said I wasn’t going anywhere,
but there’s things that we have to work on.
- I did hear you say that that night, but then I felt
like the actions were quite the opposite.
♪ ♪
- Understand that it’s going to take some time too.
He’s got a--he’s-- you got to give him
some--give him some spac--give him some time to get--
Oh, girl, give him some time. - It’s hard, girl.
- I know it’s hard. What do I always say?
Marriage ain’t for punks.
- Marriage ain’t for punks, man.
I feel like I’m getting punked sometimes.
- I need you to wo-man up.
This is a good man.
- I know he’s a good man, but he drives me bananas.
- Welcome to marriage!
How many husbands don’t drive their wives bananas?
- Long distance ones.
- All right--Lindsey, I need you to focus and stay with me.
And, Mark, stop that look.
[laughter]
- He can’t--he can’t, his face is stuck that way.
- Just two things I would say to you guys--and everybody,
actually, one is that no man’s gonna
be your girlfriend or your mother.
They try their best to give us intimacy and we just
have to appreciate that that’s what they’re trying to do.
And to ding them too much for that is just
to make yourself and them unhappy.
Well, let’s go on to--to you guys.
- I thought we were done for the day.
[laughter]
- You wish.
How do you feel your discussion went with Michael
when you came back?
- You always start off there. - Jasmina!
- No, we had a great discussion once we got back home.
We cleared up a lot of things with each other.
One of his concerns was, am I still holding
myself back from being vulnerable?
And, you know, I told him I was doing that
because I felt like you didn’t care for me.
And now we’re in a place where I feel like he genuinely
does care for me so I’m not holding back being vulnerable.
So I think it was a good conversation on--on both parts.
- I’m so glad you guys talked about the vulnerability thing
because I had asked you to be
more initiative in creating intimacy.
Are you comfortable with him being more--
taking more initiative?
- Oh, I mean--I don’t-- I told Dr. Pepper,
I don’t give him the stiff arm.
Like, when we’re sittin’ on the couch, we’re close.
You know, we we hug when we see each other.
I’m not uncomfortable with things like that,
it’s just I feel nothing from it...
♪ ♪
Because we don’t have that deep connection,
or that strong foundation,
or I don’t know a lot about him.
- Even still, you don’t? - Yes, even still.
♪ ♪
- Could I say a small language thing that I think is helpful?
- Yeah.
- I would say "I don’t have yet"
as opposed to "I don’t have," because it sounds like
the end of the sentence, this is it,
as opposed to what’s true is you’re all
still working at everything, right?
You’re getting to know each other.
The next day may be different from the last day,
but that’s the path you’re on, which is to open
those things up with each other.
- No one said it was gonna be easy.
I told you that, but I can’t prepare you enough.
None of us can prepare you enough.
Dr. Pepper, Dr. Viv, we--myself, we told y’all,
this is gonna be tough.
I want to remind you, every one of you wanted this badly.
You really wanted to be married.
- You were not picked by accident.
- No--no.
- You were not put together by accident.
- Nope, if you do the work, you can have a happy marriage.
Fight through it and make it work.
- ♪ I just wanna get to know you ♪
- Road trip time!
- Next time on "Married At First Sight"...
- I’ve never been to Vermont.
- Wow, this is gorgeous.
- ♪ This is the American dream ♪
[cheering]
- Oh!
Ah! - I got you!
- Seeing my wife be so involved in this, right now,
with the animals--it’s so sexy and so attractive.
- Who is most likely to start a fight?
- I chose Lindsey. - Lindsey.
- Oh, boy.
This is not gonna be fun.
- I don’t give a [bleep] what y’all think.
- How much more do you have left the school?
- Two years.
- So how you gonna have kids in two years
if you’re just coming out of school?
- You wanna fight with me?
You wanna get tough?
- You’ll really regret the moment
of not staying in this marriage.
- I’m done with you. - Cool, okay.
This is the [bleep] that I don’t wanna deal with
all day now.
- Do you really want to be married to me?
♪ ♪
- What are you doing?
♪ ♪