1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,815 This program me contains strong language, includes discussion 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,895 of rape, strong language, and sexual content that some may find upsetting 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,855 DOG BARKS RUSTLING 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,215 MAN SNIFFS 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,375 I am walking the streets, and I've got a flashlight on. 6 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,055 Pretty drunk. 7 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,615 Car, get out of my way. 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,015 Who parks their car in my way? 9 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,935 FOX BARKS 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,015 Look! Look at this. 11 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:49,575 Lions, tigers and bears, oh, my. 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,255 DANCE MUSIC PLAYS NEARBY 13 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,535 MAN LAUGHS WOMAN: 14 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,255 I'm not... 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,095 As door staff, we see the worst in everyone. 16 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,615 People are out there lying, drinking, cheating. 17 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,895 If there was ever a worst side of anyone, we see it. 18 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,575 WOMAN: 19 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,215 MAN: 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,535 I'm not... I'm not looking. Can you just turn round, please? 21 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,215 There are certain men that prey on drunk girls - 22 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,895 the predator-type men. 23 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,935 A lot of them go unreported. No-one says anything 24 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,695 because they don't want to go through that trauma again. 25 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,975 INAUDIBLE 26 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,935 # Running in circles 27 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,335 # Run away, run away, run away... # 28 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,255 It's crucial that we find the truth. 29 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:28,695 Police! Police! 30 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,015 Hands behind your back. 31 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,295 Got to question everything. Believe nobody. 32 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,775 It's almost a game of chess. Try and get them to slip up. 33 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,655 This is your opportunity to talk to me. 34 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,495 Bedfordshire Police respond to an allegation of rape in a dark alley. 35 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,815 424 arrival. 36 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:14,935 2-4 thank you. 37 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:25,455 What's happened? 38 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,775 WOMAN SOBBING I don't want... 39 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:28,975 Can you tell me what's happened? 40 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,415 Do you want to tell me in private? WOMAN SOBS 41 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,775 Come on, do you want to come back into my police van? 42 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,375 I'll come with you, and then, just tell her what you told me. 43 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,175 And then, it's nice and warm out of the rain. 44 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,535 Right, what's happened? 45 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,495 OK, yes, we went out, we'd had a really fun night. 46 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,135 Yeah? And... 47 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,615 ...I don't remember. Where was you walking from? This way? 48 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,135 I don't know what's going on, cos I'm drunk. 49 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,975 OK. Listen, all they want to know is what happened to you. 50 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,335 I can't remember, but it's... 51 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,615 ...it's when this... 52 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,575 ...just forcing...in my mouth. 53 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,895 Forcing what in? 54 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,095 Penis in my mouth. I know I have been raped, yeah. 55 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,415 SHE SOBS 56 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,215 She came to the front door, tried to come in. 57 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,575 She said, "I need to talk to you, I need you to help me. 58 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,335 "There's something happened up the alley." 59 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,655 So we came up here. I said, "What's happened." 60 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,095 She started crying, crying, crying, 61 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,055 "I need help. He raped me up the alley. He raped me." 62 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,535 Then she said, "He put his thing in my mouth." 63 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,495 This alley? Apparently so. 64 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,335 Oi, excuse me, guys. Sorry. Just come back. 65 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,295 What's happened down there? We don't know yet. 66 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,575 Right. I'm going to wander around the back, OK? 67 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:50,615 ON RADIO: Go ahead, 429. 68 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:03,055 Oi. 69 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,975 Excuse me. Oi! 70 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,975 I've literally been round the back. As I'm putting the cordon up, 71 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,215 some tall white male with a blue parka and a hoodie 72 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,175 has come out of the shadows. Yeah. He's avoided me and he's disappeared 73 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,615 and come out by the taxi ranks, and he's gone. Oh. A blue parka? 74 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,175 I can check our scanner to see if we had anyone in like that. Yeah. 75 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:36,775 Big - like, taller than me, I'd say. 76 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,455 The description they're passing 77 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,175 is somebody that I've just seen run away from me. 78 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:04,655 Yeah, that's the guy that I saw. 79 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,535 They said they've just seen that on CCTV. 80 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,535 SIRENS WAIL 81 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,775 With a possible sighting of the suspect near the scene, 82 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,055 multiple units begin a search. 83 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,815 Alpha-Delta Two. Yeah, we're just looping around, 84 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:22,575 then we're going to come back down. 85 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,975 Hello, are you OK? Are you OK? 86 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,295 Excuse me. 87 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,015 Yeah. 88 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,855 You got anything in any pockets at all? 89 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,495 No, I've got tobacco. 90 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,895 Ah, OK, couple of spliffs? Yeah. 91 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,895 I haven't got a torch. Have a look at that. 92 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,295 We're with what I believe is the male from that CCTV footage. 93 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,895 Have you got that picture? Let me get it on mine. 94 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,055 Yeah. Yeah. Let's have a look. I'm confident. Yeah, 100%. 95 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,135 Unfortunately, at the moment we're going to have to bring you in. 96 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,335 You match the description of an image that's been sent to us 97 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,295 that I believe might be yourself. Yeah. 98 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,895 You're under arrest on suspicion of rape. On suspicion of rape? 99 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,255 On suspicion of rape. You do not have to say anything, 100 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,695 but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned 101 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,495 something which you later rely on in court. 102 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,775 Anything you do say may be given in evidence. 103 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:27,815 Yeah, come through. 104 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,375 A 24-year-old man is brought into Luton custody 105 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,015 under arrest on suspicion of rape. 106 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:53,855 Yeah. Yeah. 107 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,415 Just need to speak to SOCA 108 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,895 about whether or not forensics have been authorised. 109 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,855 So, this item is yet to be uploaded. 110 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,935 DC Shona Birkby and DC Chris Murphy from 111 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:17,855 the Rape and Serious Sexual Of fences Unit begin their investigation. 112 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,495 So this morning, we've come in to a job 113 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:27,135 where a victim has been found by door staff crying uncontrollably, 114 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,255 and saying she's been raped in the alleyway. 115 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,135 Just on the basis of what we've got at the moment, 116 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,135 it appears to be a stranger rape. 117 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,295 I've dealt with more investigations that have been rapes involving 118 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,135 people they know than I have stranger rapes. 119 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,615 It does provoke a fear in the public 120 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,615 because it's almost as if that could be me, that could be anybody. 121 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,055 He was found a four-minute walk away from the scene. 122 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:00,935 What's he hanging around for? 123 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,335 As they say, offenders like to see what's going on. Watch, yeah. 124 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,615 There is a bit of pressure, because you have to look at the risk 125 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,295 to not only the victim, but the wider community. 126 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,055 Doesn't look like he's got any previous. 127 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,975 It could be that he's been there and someone else is down the alleyway 128 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,255 and, you know, someone else has raped her. 129 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,535 It'll be interesting to see what he's got to say. 130 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,855 If you are genuinely innocent, 131 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,175 rape is not an of fence you want to be arrested for, is it? 132 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:32,935 Nope. Nope, nope, nope. 133 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,055 Right, shall we watch this body-worn, then? 134 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,615 VIDEO: What's happened? Do you want me to come with you 135 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,575 and we'll speak to this lady? WOMAN SOBS 136 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,975 Do you want to come back into my police van? 137 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,415 I'll come with you, and then, I'll help you. 138 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,295 She's absolutely devastated, isn't she? 139 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:53,895 Distraught. Yeah. 140 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,615 ON VIDEO: Then it's nice and warm out of the rain. 141 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,935 Tell her what you told me, OK? 142 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,215 Yeah, I literally fell and my mouth was raped. Then... 143 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,255 And then like "Oh, my God, oh, my God." Now I'm like... 144 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,255 I'm making that as sort of moving her head around, 145 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,815 trying to get away from it. 146 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,815 WOMAN SOBS 147 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,295 Oh, bless her. 148 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,095 I know I have been raped, yeah. I have been raped, yeah. 149 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,975 If you have a swab done straight away, 150 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,615 then you can go home and have a shower or bath, or whatever, 151 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,455 and then, you'll feel a lot better. Yeah. 152 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,855 Yeah, security guard's done really well. 153 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,935 Just fantastic. She's built up a really good rapport with her 154 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,295 and stayed with her. She could have just left her. 155 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,015 It's brilliant - to think about not giving her something to drink, 156 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,375 as well, bearing in mind she says she's been orally raped is 157 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:44,815 just spot-on forensically. 158 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,415 Oral rape is still rape. 159 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:55,135 Just touching the lips of someone's mouth with their penis is rape. 160 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,015 It doesn't have to last a while. 161 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,935 That person doesn't have to ejaculate. 162 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,695 It's still as serious as vaginal rape, 163 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,815 and it can carry up to a life sentence. 164 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:15,975 Hello, Loui. Hello. 165 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,335 Would you be able come to the custody desk, sorry, 166 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,655 just so we can talk about intimate samples? Yeah. 167 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:22,055 Is that all right, mate? 168 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,695 Cool. My name's Chris, 169 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,455 and I'll be one of the interviewing officers, all right? 170 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:31,735 Hello, sir. 171 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:38,175 You are down to have swabs taken from your genitalia area. Yeah. 172 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,855 Do you consent? Yeah, yeah, I consent, yeah. 173 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,335 Is there any way I could do the urine sample very soon? 174 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,735 Cos I need to go to the toilet, 175 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,415 and I didn't want to, cos I haven't done anything wrong at all. 176 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,895 Yeah. If you can sign again. Yeah. 177 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,535 Yeah, as soon as you go in the room, 178 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,895 if you say, "Can I do the urine sample first?" 179 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,455 You been holding it the whole time? Yeah, I've been holding it, yeah, 180 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,775 cos I haven't done anything wrong. I want this to be... Yeah. 181 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,335 The earlier we get our forensic samples, 182 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,815 the better for our investigation. 183 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,735 He hasn't washed, he hasn't had a chance to get changed 184 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,695 from the clothing he was wearing, 185 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,575 and this gives us the best chance of recovering forensics. 186 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,735 The only way we can prove that something's happened is 187 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,735 with the forensics. Absolutely. 188 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,455 And if his DNA comes back on her clothing, 189 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,335 or her DNA comes back on his clothing, 190 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,695 he's got to give some form of explanation as to why that is. 191 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,495 I've been on the Rape and Serious Sexual Of fences team 192 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,455 for a year-and-a-half now. 193 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,375 When I moved onto the department 194 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,335 and I realised just how many reports we get, 195 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,175 it really highlighted the dangers that are out there. 196 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,215 Less than 1% of reported rapes lead to a conviction. 197 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,815 It's not right. 198 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,295 We should be doing more to increase our conviction rates. 199 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,975 If I don't investigate this crime completely, 200 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,735 it just won't get to court, 201 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,415 and I won't do the victim the justice that she deserves. 202 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,775 And there is no place for victim blaming 203 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,215 when it comes to investigations of this kind. 204 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,455 I have to see what he says in interview, really, 205 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,855 but I really want to see the CCTV. 206 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,815 So, if we can put him there and we can say that's him in the alleyway, 207 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,735 that's the first step. The second step is 208 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,455 can we prove that a sexual of fence has taken place? 209 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,935 Let's go see what he has to say. 210 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,455 We can always go in for a further interview this evening. 211 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,815 We've got plenty of time on the clock. 212 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,935 I don't think he got into custody until about 2.30, 3am this morning, 213 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,575 so we've got a bit of time. 214 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,895 You all right, Loui? 215 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,455 Are we ready to go for interview? Your solicitor's here. 216 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,655 Do you want a water or anything before we go in? Yes. 217 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,615 Yeah? we'll take you through and then we'll go grab one, all right? 218 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,415 I want to know where that suspect's been that night, 219 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,335 at what point he came into town, 220 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:27,215 what he did while he was in town, if he approached anybody, 221 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,815 does his account match up with what the victim is saying? 222 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,215 There'll be a loud noise, and that'll be the start. 223 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,615 LONG TONE 224 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,335 We are in Interview Room 5 at Luton Police Station. 225 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:49,415 I am Shona Birkby. 226 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,895 I'm a detective on the Rape and Serious Sexual Of fences Team, 227 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,615 so I'm going to be interviewing you today, 228 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,455 and I'm taking into consideration you're obviously really upset. 229 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,055 Yeah, very. OK? When was the last time you had something to eat? 230 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,855 Er...two days ago, maybe. 231 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,535 Have you had anything to eat while you've been in custody? No. 232 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,975 I can't eat... I can't eat during this. OK, all right. 233 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,975 You've got some water. Yeah. Al right. 234 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,815 We can get you some water at any point, all right? 235 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,335 So you've been arrested for rape, 236 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,815 and it's my intention to ask you about this of fence 237 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,415 in order to prove or disprove your involvement. 238 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,175 So in your own time, tell me about the of fences 239 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:27,775 for which you've been arrested for. 240 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,175 So, last night? Yeah. I was walking around in the town centre, 241 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,495 I was smoking. Is that something you...? 242 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,495 Yeah, I do that, yeah, yeah. 243 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,815 I don't have friends down here. OK. 244 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,175 Like, it's just the way of me to be myself, you know, 245 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:46,015 just to get some space to myself, if you know what I mean, 246 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,495 just to breathe. Yeah, OK. 247 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,695 And...] had seen her, 248 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,255 and she was looking for her bag, so I approached her. 249 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,655 I've asked if she was OK. She said, "Hey, you OK?" I said, "Yeah. 250 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,015 "Do you need a light?" So I've got a light on my phone. 251 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,455 And she said, "No, no, I'm waiting for friends," all her friends. 252 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,975 I said, "Oh, OK, I'm sorry," and then, I walked off. 253 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,855 Mm-hm. Have you ever met this woman before? 254 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,575 No, I've never seen her in my life. Never seen her before? No, no, no. 255 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,055 OK. And how did she appear to you? 256 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,415 Oh, she was... She was drunk, but she wasn't like... Yeah. 257 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,055 HE IMITATES DRUNK SLURRING You know? 258 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,735 And she was still conversing with me. OK. 259 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,655 Erm... So the rape of fence, then - she has come out and she said, 260 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,495 "He's put his penis into my mouth.” 261 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,855 Did you rape... No. ..this young lady? No. 262 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,575 OK, so you're saying, no, you didn't rape her. No, no. 263 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,935 Did you put your penis into her mouth... No. ..without her consent? 264 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,295 Did you put your penis into her mouth with consent? 265 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,215 No. That's why I was so eager to give all my DNA. 266 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,055 Yeah. And I wouldn't do anything like that. 267 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,415 Will we find any of her DNA on any of your swabs? 268 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,935 No. OK. How sure are you of that? 269 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,735 100%. You will not find her DNA on my clothes. 270 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,055 OK. She's saying you've orally raped her. 271 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,215 I haven't. 272 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,975 So what steps did you take to see if she was consenting? 273 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,855 I haven't... I haven't... orally raped her. 274 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,215 But that's not my question. 275 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,975 You're asking for consent for something that I haven't done. OK. 276 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,255 So how do I answer that? I haven't. 277 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,415 So, what's this one? Is this the town centre CCTV? 278 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,895 Well, that's... Yeah, yeah. That's at the pub. OK. 279 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,455 Police have received CCTV from the town centre 280 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,695 on the night of the incident. 281 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,895 So I think that's her up there. 282 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,335 Yeah, that is her. 283 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,015 There's our suspect there, just popped out. 284 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:52,695 He walks up there. 285 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,255 She then goes to sit down. 286 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,175 He then walks over to her, looking at her, 287 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,855 gets his phone straight out... 288 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,375 ...does something with his torch. 289 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,015 Walks back over to the alleyway where he's just come out of. 290 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,895 So, this is where they don't let her in. 291 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,735 There he is. 292 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,655 Looks over at her, walks back down the path. 293 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,575 With him circling round, that's quite important. 294 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:33,015 I think he's just wanting to keep an eye on her. Yeah... Yeah. 295 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,895 He's had a phone in his hand as well, the whole time. 296 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,975 And she stumbles down there, the door staff's looking. 297 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,775 What's...? And he... He starts running. 298 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,575 Oh, yeah! SHE GASPS 299 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,175 Oh, my God! 300 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,975 I can't believe that. 301 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,295 So, at 01.36, 302 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,495 I just want to know for sure how long she was in that alleyway for. 303 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,175 No-one else goes in the alleyway, 304 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,655 no-one else comes out of that alleyway. No-one else goes in. 305 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,655 | think it's about six minutes that she's in there. 306 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,415 That's enough time, isn't it? Yeah. 307 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,575 Then when she does come out... There. 01... 42:009. 308 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,655 01:42:09. And then, he pops out again in a minute. 309 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,655 There we go. He's watching them, isn't he? 310 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,335 He's like, "Shit!" He's gone, "She'll telling them."” Yeah. 311 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:25,735 And he's running. Yeah. 312 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,895 Council footage that shows the other end of that alleyway... Right. 313 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,575 ...and you see him walking off. 314 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,815 Quite casually as well. Like nothing's ever happened. 315 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,655 Not bad evidence, though, is it? Yeah. 316 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,695 I don't think there's anyone else about. 317 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,055 He would have seen that she's on her own, she's drunk. 318 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,975 Why then follow a vulnerable intoxicated woman into an alleyway? 319 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,215 It feels extremely predatory. 320 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,615 It's just... Yeah. And we have got that time. 321 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,375 OK. 322 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,255 Are you ready to start? 323 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,775 OK. So, we just need to go back over everything again 324 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,375 just for the time being all right? 325 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,695 I'm going to show you SB1, OK, 326 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,175 and this is an image that was taken from CCTV. 327 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,695 Just have a look at that image for me. Is that you in that image? 328 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,055 That's me, yeah. OK. All right, thank you. 329 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,695 So you were walking around, not going anywhere. 330 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,335 No, no, I'm just strolling, literally just... OK. 331 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,095 And you've seen her go into the alleyway. 332 00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:47,095 She ran into the alleyway, yeah. She ran into the alleyway. Yeah. OK. 333 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:49,055 How have you entered the alleyway? 334 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,055 By walking. So you've walked into the alleyway? Yeah. OK. 335 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,415 Did you know that there was CCTV all around there? 336 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,735 No. You didn't know that. OK. 337 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,095 Just watch the bottom here for me. 338 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,375 So I believe that this is you walking down the street, OK? 339 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,735 And she is now just going into the alleyway, OK? 340 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,255 Just watch the bottom here for me. 341 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,375 So did you see that? Yeah. 342 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,375 So you've crossed over. Mm-hm. 343 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,895 And how did you go into the alleyway? 344 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,055 Pretty quick. Like a jog. A jog? 345 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,815 Yeah. So you didn't walk? No. OK. 346 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,495 Why have you gone into the alleyway? 347 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,335 I've crossed the road at first... OK. 348 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:38,255 ...and then I've seen her crouch in the alleyway. 349 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,575 So you've gone in there with the intention 350 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:41,615 of seeing what she's up to? 351 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,375 Basically, yeah. 352 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,655 I wanted to see if she was urinating or not, yeah. 353 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:49,495 OK. 354 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,295 Intention was to go and see if she was urinating. 355 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:54,815 Once you're in there and she's urinating, 356 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,095 what's your intention then? 357 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:57,535 Just to watch. 358 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:58,815 Just to watch. 359 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,095 It turns you on? 360 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,615 Watching it, yeah. Watching what? 361 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,295 Just her urinating, that's all. 362 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,855 Which is wrong, disgusting, and I'm sorry, 363 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,695 but I want to be truthful because I don't want to... 364 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,015 ...I don't want to get... 365 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,015 You don't understand, I want... I don't want this. Yeah. 366 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,335 Um... 367 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:22,895 Just pause the interview for a second? 368 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,655 Yeah, of course we can, yeah. 369 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,375 Right, one second. 370 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,335 All right, thank you, cheers. 371 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,175 Is Paul there? 372 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,935 Well, this is more important than his cheese and ham sandwich. 373 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,015 Oh. Hello, how are you? 374 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,015 So, we've got CCTV. 375 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,415 He literally runs after her into the alleyway. 376 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,335 He could see her urinating, because it turned him on. 377 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,655 Do we have enough to prove a rape at the minute? 378 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,815 No, but forensics may assist in that. 379 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,055 Yeah, no worries. 380 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,535 What's going on? 381 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,855 Paul doesn't think we've got enough to remand, we need more. 382 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,295 PHONE RINGS 383 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,535 Good afternoon, RASSO, Shona speaking, can I help? 384 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,535 Hello, Shona, it's Caz from CID, you all right? 385 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,895 Yeah, I'm fine how are you? Not too bad, thank you. 386 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,935 So, basically we managed to get into the suspect's phone. 387 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,575 Yeah. There is a three-minute-long video, 388 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,175 and literally on there you've got a female who's, 389 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,455 looks like she's urinating. 390 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,655 Can I come down and view that? 391 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,415 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cheers, thanks a lot, bye-bye. 392 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,175 So, 01.39, he's created a three-minute video. 393 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,175 Yeah. She's already on the floor and he sort of goes up to her, 394 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,135 and throughout the whole clip, he is filming. 395 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:19,975 Huh? 396 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:24,375 Huh? 397 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,255 So she doesn't know she's being videoed. 398 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,215 So he's offering her money. 399 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,615 I mean, obviously he's... 400 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,935 I'm absolutely shocked at that. 401 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,655 I don't actually... Didn't expect that. 402 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,775 It's just... It's made me feel a bit sick, if I'm honest. 403 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,375 That's the thing, you never know. I genuinely don't know what to say. 404 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,935 Situation... That's to get off on it later, isn't it? Yeah. 405 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,895 Yeah. That's - that's what that's about. 406 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,215 You've got to be a certain type of person, haven't you, 407 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,535 to go out there and do this? 408 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,215 He - yeah. And he's been waiting for somebody, 409 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,095 and he's targeted her. Yeah. 410 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,055 Dangerous, he's a dangerous man. 411 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,855 Yeah. Be interesting to see what he says. 412 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,255 Yeah. Yeah. 413 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,575 OK. Are you sure you're warm enough? Cool enough? 414 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,335 It's really warm, I've just walked in here 415 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:01,295 and realised how warm it was, I was like, "Phew!" 416 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,815 I've never found evidence of that nature on someone's phone before. 417 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,655 The sexual comments, the position of the phone, 418 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,975 it's so degrading. 419 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,775 I'm absolutely desperate to put this evidence to him. 420 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,055 We're going to show you something else now. 421 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,735 I just want you to watch it. 422 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,695 Hopefully the volume's quite loud. 423 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,735 If it's too loud just let me know. 424 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:28,935 Why? 425 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:31,375 Huh? 426 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,015 Tell me about that video. 427 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,655 I don't know why I took it. 428 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,095 Have you ever done that before? What, recorded people? Yeah. 429 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,375 Not... Not in public like that, no. 430 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,335 OK. 431 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:24,935 So you started recording her as soon as you've seen her urinating. 432 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,415 Yeah. OK. 433 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,295 You know, she was just peeing and I was recording it 434 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,855 and I was trying to, 435 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,095 not let her see that I was recording her while she was peeing. 436 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,975 Why didn't you want her knowing you were recording her? 437 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,495 Sorry. I'm just in so much shock right now. 438 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,095 It's all right, take your time. 439 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,095 There was no intention, I was just... It was... 440 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,455 I probably just turned it on because she was peeing 441 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,815 and I was, you know, I was recording it. It was wrong, 442 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,175 I know it was disgusting and it was wrong. OK. OK. 443 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,735 That doesn't mean I'm trying to get sexually gratification from it, 444 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,135 I'm just... 445 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,175 What's your understanding of sexual gratification? 446 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,095 Trying to get something else I think, sexually. 447 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,455 OK, so if you didn't get any sexual gratification, 448 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,775 why did you tell her you bad a big cock? 449 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,415 I don't know. 450 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,495 Was that not sort of having like a sexual conversation with someone? 451 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,095 No. No. So, do you go and say to anybody normally 452 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,615 that you've got a big cock? No, no. No. No. 453 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,095 So why do it on this occasion? 454 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:21,295 I don't know. 455 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,615 A lone female, by the way. I don't know. In the dark. 456 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,055 I don't know - it's just at that... 457 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,895 It was the heat of the moment type thing. OK. 458 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,255 Obviously now I can tell you that it was disgusting, 459 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,295 it was wrong, you know it was just...a mistake, 460 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,135 something that I'm never going to do again. 461 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,255 I am very sorry. OK. I shouldn't have recorded. 462 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,655 And what were you going to do with the recording afterwards? 463 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,095 Just watch it. 464 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,695 OK, you were going to keep it? 465 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,415 No, delete it after. Would you have masturbated to it? No, no, I... 466 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,895 But it turned you on watching it. No. 467 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,255 I would have realised this was disgusting and wrong, 468 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,895 I would have deleted it, yeah. But you didn't. 469 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,535 What made you stop recording? 470 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,975 Because she finished urinating. 471 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,175 OK. So, when she stopped urinating, 472 00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,935 and you stopped recording... Yeah. 473 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:01,575 What happened? So, she stopped... 474 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,175 She said that she lost her phone. 475 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,175 OK, lost her phone, yeah. 476 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,855 So she asked me to put a light, where's your light. 477 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,455 Yeah. So we looked for her phone and her phone wasn't there. 478 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,215 OK. 479 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,375 I think you did rape her, 480 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,895 and I believe that you intentionally went down there to rape her. 481 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,255 No. I cry when I stand on an ant, or a fly. Yeah. 482 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,295 Like, I'm a very sensitive person. 483 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,095 I couldn't hurt someone like that. 484 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,575 Very confident, though, isn't it? 485 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,335 That video, that's someone who's confident. 486 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,015 You're asking her for something in exchange for money and drugs, 487 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,455 what were asking for from her? 488 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,895 I don't know. You don't know. Yeah. 489 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,135 All right. OK. 490 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,455 So, the time is 21.03. I'm now concluding the interview. 491 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,575 Yeah, just give us a ring, all right. 492 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,695 As soon as it got to him admitting to the videos. Yeah. 493 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,015 "Yeah, I did it, I'm disgusted by myself, 494 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:23,935 "I filmed her," 495 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,495 because he almost wanted to come out with that, 496 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,815 so we'd forget about the rape allegation. Yeah. 497 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:29,855 we'd go, "All right, thanks."” 498 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,215 Yeah, "Shouldn't have done it and I'm really sorry," 499 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,975 which is a theme he kept saying throughout 500 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,415 to try and get himself off it. 501 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,855 I don't... I think he's very dangerous, 502 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,615 and I-1 don't think that's the first time he's done that. 503 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,975 The Crown Prosecution Service will decide whether there is enough 504 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,215 evidence to charge for the rape. 505 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,935 I feel like I've got a massive clock above my head 506 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,855 going, "Tick, tick, tick, tick, de-de doodle-a-do-doo!" 507 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,775 I'm going to ring CPS now anyway, 508 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,335 because I'm not waiting. 509 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,095 It's just because we've only got an hour and 50 minutes 510 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:14,575 to charge him or release him. 511 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,735 Oh, OK, no worries, all right - cheers, thank you. 512 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,095 All right, thank you, bye-bye. 513 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:33,335 Right, so we've got charges for rape... Yeah. 514 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,615 And voyeurism, as well, because of the video. 515 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,975 Let's go do this. 516 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,175 Mm-hm. 517 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,855 Yeah, no worries. 518 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,735 All right, Loui, 519 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,455 you're going to be charged with the following of fences. 520 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,135 On the 20th of November 2022 521 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,135 you intentionally penetrated the mouth of a woman 522 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,495 with your penis when she did not consent 523 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,335 and you did not reasonably believe she was consenting, 524 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,415 also recorded another person doing a private act 525 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,055 knowing that the other person did not consent to your recording, 526 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,935 for the purpose of obtaining sexual gratification. OK? 527 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,535 Not yet, this is - we've gone to CPS. 528 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,655 And they've done... They've given us a charging decision, yes, mate. 529 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,015 Do you have any, any reply to those charges at this time? 530 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,015 Well, I definitely deny the rape charges. OK. 531 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,015 Now the next question that comes up 532 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,615 is whether you're going to be charged and bailed for court 533 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,135 or whether we're going to remand you for court in the morning. 534 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:56,855 Yeah. 535 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:05,895 I'm messed up. 536 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,615 Messed up? Oh, yeah. 537 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,935 Hi, it's Shona from the police. 538 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,255 I've been dealing with this chap in custody 539 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,215 since 8am this morning. 540 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,895 Don't thank me. 541 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,295 I just wanted to let you know that CPS have agreed some charges. 542 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,695 They have charged him with rape, on you. 543 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,215 OK? I'm sorry I didn't mean to make you cry. 544 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,655 All right, I don't want you sitting there blaming yourself 545 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,655 and saying, "It's my fault.” It's not your fault. 546 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,655 I'm so sorry that this happened to you. 547 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,695 There's so much in the media 548 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:11,175 that makes victims feel like they're the ones 549 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,615 that are going to be on trial. 550 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,175 Our primary role is to support that victim, 551 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,015 and to make sure that she feels believed and not judged. 552 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,975 You should be allowed to walk home and feel safe. 553 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,375 This is not your fault, and it'll never be your fault. 554 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:39,975 Hello, Shona speaking. 555 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,015 I'm not too bad, thank you. 556 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,815 OK, are we able to look at the boxer shorts at all? 557 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,175 The preliminary results from forensic swabs taken from both 558 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,615 victim and suspect are received. 559 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,295 All right, take care, bye. Bye, bye, bye. 560 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,935 They haven't found any semen on any of her swabs at the moment, 561 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:01,935 but one of the reasons they won't find the semen 562 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,975 is because he probably didn't ejaculate. Mm. 563 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,615 So, that it's not lost, it just is... 564 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,015 Well, this is the reason why we don't have the semen. 565 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,055 Yeah. It's going to come down to, are we going to have DNA? 566 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,375 And then, if we don't have any DNA, 567 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:20,295 it's whether or not CPS have enough to take that to court. 568 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,055 It's the CPS that decide whether something goes to court or not, 569 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,095 it's not our decision. 570 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,015 Sometimes we just don't have the forensics there, 571 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,655 but that doesn't mean an of fence hasn't occurred. 572 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,695 If you don't have the forensics 573 00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,855 you have to rely more on other evidence, 574 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,375 as opposed to forensic evidence, to prove our case. 575 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,535 So many pictures of women. 576 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,175 Really bizarre. 577 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,175 The full download of her suspect's phone 578 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,095 is available to DC Birkby. 579 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,455 "I want you to bend over and let me fuck you, 580 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,535 "because you make Daddy hard." What the...? 581 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,335 He likes younger looking girls. 582 00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,455 How old is she?! 583 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,775 What's this video here? 584 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,495 What's going on? 585 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,015 Oh, my God, no. 586 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,015 Oh, my God, don't, don't. 587 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,415 He's videoing someone in their house from their window. 588 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,015 Dirty little voyeur. Yeah. 589 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,535 PANTING 590 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,735 He's videoing someone having sex. 591 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,255 They've got no idea he's there. 592 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,535 WOMAN: Stay there please. Stay there! 593 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:50,895 He's prowling. 594 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,895 This is a month before he commits our of fence. 595 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,415 Oh, my God. 596 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,135 He's in an alleyway with another girl. 597 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,375 Knew he'd done it before. Knew he'd done it before. 598 00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:34,855 She's urinating, and he's videoing her urinating. 599 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:44,335 A person's level of offending has to start somewhere. 600 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,695 The conversations he was having with women, 601 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:48,335 indecent images, 602 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,175 and then he was committing voyeurism of fences. 603 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,815 The fact that he's hiding the camera, 604 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,535 he says he walks around late at night. 605 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,335 He walks around late at night 606 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,735 trying to find drunk girls in alleyways, doesn't he? Yeah. 607 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:06,535 Voyeurism is recording a private act without the victim's consent. 608 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,215 Voyeurism is an important crime to prosecute, 609 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:12,775 because it is a sexual of fence. 610 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,175 It's incredibly violating, 611 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,495 and it could be the first step 612 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,255 on the ladder to something more serious. 613 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,615 If he's met with hostility. He comes back and... 614 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,135 He just comes back, and then, justifies his actions 615 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,455 about them being disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. 616 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,015 He's clearly a predator, 617 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,095 and he's moved very quickly to a hands-on of fence, 618 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,935 so his behaviour's escalated over a short amount of time. 619 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,255 I reviewed his phone yesterday. 620 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,935 There are more videos on there of voyeurism. 621 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,295 Not of our victim, no, no, no, no, 622 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,815 of different people at different times at different dates. 623 00:38:54,840 --> 00:39:00,375 And there's also, there is an image of a young teenage girl, 624 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,175 doesn't look like she's... it looks like she's started puberty, 625 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,975 her breasts haven't fully grown. 626 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,975 I've asked that to be put through our Griffite Package first, 627 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,535 but I now need to go and grade that. 628 00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,975 It's scary, isn't it? Really scary. 629 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,695 If the victim hadn't come forward that night, 630 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:26,375 we would never have known he was committing these of fences. 631 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,815 Makes me really worried now, 632 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,895 that I've got to close my curtains when I'm walking around the house. 633 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,535 Just don't know who's around. 634 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,015 DC Birkby travels to Bedford Prison 635 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,655 to interview Loui Cadman about the new evidence revealed on his phone. 636 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,655 This is a voluntary interview. 637 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,375 As you're aware, your client is on remand for the of fences 638 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:52,895 of rape on a female. 639 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,375 As the OIC, I've reviewed your client's phone, 640 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,695 I've found a number of videos which are of a voyeuristic nature. 641 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,815 SB17, filmed at night 642 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,095 and the person filming appears to be stood near some bushes. 643 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,055 The camera is pointed at the window with the lights on inside, 644 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,375 and you can see person walking around the window, 645 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,695 and her breasts are on show. 646 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,575 And there's SB28, 647 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,855 the person operating the camera is stood by a wooden fence. 648 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,375 The camera is then lifted over the top of the fence 649 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,335 pointing into the garden. 650 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,895 SB15, it's pointed towards a person in bushes. 651 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,415 The person's hands are down by their groin, 652 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,855 and the hands are moving backwards and forwards, 653 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,775 and that person operating the camera whistles 654 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,815 and shouts the word "tramps". 655 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,135 SB10 shows a shadow of a person walking in the dark, 656 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,775 a male voice is heard to say "whoa" and then "stop". 657 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,775 SB12, it's of a couple having sex in a doorway. 658 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,255 And SB21, you can hear female voices, 659 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,015 a female appears in the bottom right hand corner of the image, 660 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,215 a female voice is heard to say, "We are going for a wee, 661 00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:07,495 "can you not shine the torch?” 662 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,775 SB22, a female voice is heard 663 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,095 to say, "I've got a skirt on."” 664 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,575 The female voice sounds like she's slurring her words. 665 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,015 You then say, "Well, I..." 666 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,255 I'd pay to see that. 667 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,215 And she says no. 668 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,735 But I don't want to go through this interview again. 669 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,175 I don't want to talk about these things, 670 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,535 because | know it's wrong and it's disgusting, 671 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,895 and I hate it and I'm sorry, I hate myself and I'm sorry. 672 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:50,655 You OK to talk? 673 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,815 So, he has pleaded guilty to the voyeurism of fence against you, 674 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,695 and he's pleaded guilty to the further two of fences 675 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,935 of voyeurism not related to you. 676 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,335 Admitting responsibility for the videos 677 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,415 and possessing indecent images in advance 678 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,495 could mean these crimes wouldn't be put in front of a jury 679 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,375 as supporting evidence. 680 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,935 He's pleaded not guilty to the rape, 681 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,375 which wasn't unexpected, 682 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,815 because we are still waiting on further forensics. 683 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:22,935 Yeah. 684 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,255 Sometimes a defendant will plead guilty to a lesser of fence. 685 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:27,695 Bye! Bye, bye, bye. 686 00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:29,535 Whilst voyeurism is a serious of fence, 687 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,455 it's not classed as serious as rape 688 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,215 and doesn't carry the same sentencing. 689 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,335 It looks like they're saying there's a possible indication 690 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:41,655 of male trace DNA, 691 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,615 but they don't have enough to do a DNA profile. 692 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,335 Just don't want to let my victim down, 693 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,255 but I don't want to let other people down, 694 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,575 because I'm going to feel really bad if he goes out there 695 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,095 and starts reoffending again. 696 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,095 It's really important that we get cases to court 697 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,695 because it gives the victim a voice - 698 00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:03,455 the voice of the victim is so important 699 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,775 and sometimes we have to reemphasise that to the CPS. 700 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:11,935 Without the forensic evidence to prove rape, 701 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,775 the Crown Prosecution Service could decide to abandon the main charge. 702 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,655 I'd like to take this to court, 703 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,375 and I'd like a jury to decide, 704 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,695 because of the body-worn footage, 705 00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:30,095 how sure she was that something was in her mouth. 706 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,615 There are a number of reasons why we don't have forensics, 707 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,935 and we shouldn't let that prevent us from taking something to court. 708 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,455 There are times when we have to really push for the right result. 709 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,055 And this is where it starts, isn't it, it's - 710 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,735 it can start from those lower level, and then, it increases. 711 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,535 That's why voyeurism is so serious. Yeah. 712 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,375 I mean, it's not taken seriously enough. No. 713 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,735 Because it is, it's a stepping stone, isn't it? Absolutely. 714 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,215 I appreciate there's no DNA, 715 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:06,375 and I'm not saying it's not going to be a challenge, 716 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,855 but I think we've got enough. 717 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,055 They're going to run with the oral rape. 718 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,415 The barrister says we've got a good enough case for the oral rape, yeah. 719 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:20,855 Yeah. So, it's good. 720 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,255 Won't be an easy one, but it'll be good. 721 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,815 It'll be good. 722 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,095 Hi, I'm good - I'm just ringing from my personal number, sorry. 723 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,855 So, are you sat down? 724 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,175 Sit down. 725 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:49,295 Guilty. 726 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:51,895 He's got a guilty. 727 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,455 Guilty... No, 11... 728 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,735 11-1. 729 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,215 Yep. 730 00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,055 Oh, bless you. 731 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,415 I'm over the moon that he was found guilty. 732 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,055 My job is to put sex offenders in prison 733 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:10,935 and to protect the public. 734 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,335 That is why I come to work. 735 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,375 We've stopped him from going out and committing further of fences, 736 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,615 and having further victims. 737 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,095 The voice of the victim is so powerful, 738 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,215 without their bravery we wouldn't get cases to court. 739 00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:34,095 She was so courageous, and I can't thank her enough 740 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,015 for just being that brave. 741 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,855 Subtitles by Red Bee Media