1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,455 This program me contains discussion of rape, 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,295 strong language and sexual content that some may find upsetting 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,135 This is well-known app for sex. It's a gay sex app. 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:11,735 This is my profile. 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,615 You can put the weight, body type, age. 6 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:15,935 Bottom, top. 7 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,495 Clean-cut. Daddy. Leather. 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,695 This "BB", it means bareback sex, meaning no condom. 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,135 "Meet at my place." 10 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:37,975 So it means I am not looking for a date. 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,775 You do not need to rape because I can meet very good-looking guy 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,135 every five minutes. 13 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,775 I can send him the address and he come here, BLEEP and go. 14 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,735 It's crucial that we find the truth. 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,015 Police! Police! 16 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,295 Hands behind your back! 17 00:01:05,320 --> 00:01:06,455 Got to question everything. 18 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,535 Believe nobody. 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,695 It's almost a game of chess, trying to get them to slip up. 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,975 This is your opportunity to talk to me. 21 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,335 Overnight, a complaint of rape has been received 22 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,975 by Bedfordshire Police. 23 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,855 Officers are dispatched to arrest. 24 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,535 Can we just come in quickly? Yeah, yeah. Is that all right? 25 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,255 0¥, Mohammed. Mm? 26 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,455 Listen, I'm placing you under arrest for rape. OK? Sorry? 27 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,895 You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if 28 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,375 you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely 29 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,015 on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence. 30 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,295 Do you understand? Yeah. 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,655 Rape? I don't... Yeah, but I don't know what... 32 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,975 I haven't finished. The grounds for the rape, OK, 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,575 on the 9th of September, OK, 34 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,255 you allegedly raped a male over the age of 16 in this premises. 35 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,095 OK? The necessity for your arrest is to protect a vulnerable person. 36 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,575 OK? To secure forensic evidence and to conduct 37 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,935 a prompt and effective investigation by means of questioning. 38 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,975 Thank you, guys. 39 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,695 The suspect, 33-year-old Mohammed Altaher, ... 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,495 Just take a seat. Just watch... 41 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,095 ...is taken into custody 42 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,495 and the case is passed to the Rape and Serious Sexual Of fences Team 43 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,175 at Bedfordshire Police. 44 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:49,015 Um, so victim's come forward to Sussex Police yesterday, 45 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,415 reporting a rape on the 9th of September, 46 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,415 um, in our area. 47 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,055 Um, victim has named the suspect 48 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,375 and the address that it took place in, the suspect's flat. 49 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,655 First account at the moment, met on Grindr, 50 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,655 um, agreed to go to his flat. 51 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,815 Suspect sent him a naked picture of himself. 52 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,415 Victim agreed to go to his flat, and ultimately, things moved 53 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,375 very quickly and forcibly inside the flat... 54 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,575 ...and victim was anally raped. 55 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:28,415 Rape is not gender-specific, 56 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,615 it's not sexual-orientation-specific, 57 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:34,375 it's not cultural-specific. 58 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,375 It can happen to any person. 59 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,295 You know, this crime is one down from murder. 60 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,615 The game that we're in is getting to the truth of the allegation. 61 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,695 CHUCKLING: Already? It's very early in the day to be eating chocolate! 62 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,575 I normally wait till at least, you know, five hours into the shift. 63 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,175 LAUGHTER 64 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,695 All right. Cheers, mate. Bye. 65 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,735 The victim, Andrew, is a 32-year-old Australian national 66 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,215 on a visit to the UK. 67 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,415 We've got some injury photos. 68 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,055 He's got some bruising. 69 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,575 He said the suspect's pinned his legs behind and then 70 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,615 sort of held him down. 71 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,695 That one's quite nasty, isn't it? 72 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,575 DC Lesley Horton has taken a statement from a friend 73 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,575 of the victim, who was with him on the day of the reported rape. 74 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,255 Bye. 75 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:51,615 So she said she's dropped him off just before one. 76 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:53,815 She leaves, 77 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:57,695 she drives, from there, back towards her home address, 78 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,095 and she said eight minutes later she gets this phone call. 79 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,455 She just says... Eight minutes after dropping him off? 80 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,815 Eight minutes after dropping him off, he's rang her and said, 81 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:07,135 "I need you to come and get me." 82 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,455 So she's immediately turned around because she can 83 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:10,935 tell something's wrong. 84 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,335 And she said, "I dropped him off and he was happy, normal Andy, 85 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,815 happy guy. She said he just sits there and is like, 86 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:19,335 "I don't want to talk about it." 87 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,255 And she's unfortunately made a bit of a joke, saying, "Bloody hell, 88 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:24,855 "that didn't take long." Yeah. You know, "Didn't even offer you 89 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,415 "a cup of tea,” or something like that. And then he's just said, 90 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,055 "I've been violated. 91 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,375 "Um, he's pinned me down and..." 92 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,455 Yeah, and basically disclosed to her what had happened. 93 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,055 At the bottom of the statement, it says, like, um, you know, 94 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,095 whatever happened in there has affected him 95 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,335 because he's been so different. 96 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:47,015 Yeah. 97 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,695 No change. Bye. 98 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,735 CCTV, house to house. Yeah, definitely. 99 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,095 Get into his Grindr account and see how often 100 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,695 he's actually using this service for meeting men for sex. 101 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,855 Yeah, yeah. I've got two officers downstairs already, so we're ready 102 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,135 to go, basically. I'm on it. 103 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,255 Right, I've got my phones, guys. Right, Sarge. 104 00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:11,615 I'll be back soon. See you in a bit. 105 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,215 Just take one of these with me, just to keep me going, no? 106 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:16,415 CHUCKLING 107 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,495 I think it's a one-bedroom flat. 108 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,215 He's going to show you the CCTV? Yeah. OK, perfect. 109 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,695 It's nice to have so much security on the place. 110 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,975 It looks very professional, doesn't it? 111 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,015 I think we'd be seizing the whole box, then. 112 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,295 Lubrication. 113 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,135 Harnesses. 114 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,455 Do you want...? Do you want to get on, doing that? Yeah, I'll do that. 115 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,975 There's three of them. We've swapped all three. 116 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,855 Yep. Uh, we've had a look for blood. 117 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,455 There's no real blood or anything, is there? No. 118 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,575 CCTV and two mobile phones are seized from the suspect's apartment. 119 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,255 One's an iPhone. 120 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,455 Yeah? Yeah, one's a Samsung. One Samsung. 121 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,375 Both password-protected. 122 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,735 Plan is now, um, is to make the phones a priority? 123 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:24,935 Yes, please. 124 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,055 Go and, um... Interview. 125 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,975 DC Jo Tyrrell and DC Hayley Carroll will interview the suspect. 126 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,095 It's horrible falsification. 127 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,975 I am doctor at university, 128 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,855 control system engineer. 129 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,295 My specialisation is very seldom in the United Kingdom, 130 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,015 cannot be rarely found. 131 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,615 I am not in a position, excuse me, to jeopardise my legal status 132 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,735 in the United Kingdom, my job. 133 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,855 So I'm not stupid to do something like this. 134 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,135 BEEP 135 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,455 Time by my watch is 1354 hours. 136 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,815 During the interview, we'll be asking questions 137 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,855 about this of fence for which you've been arrested for, 138 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,215 and the purpose of this is to give you an opportunity to provide 139 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,735 an account which may assist to prove or disprove your involvement 140 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:28,615 in this matter. OK? No problem. 141 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:35,215 33-year-old Mohammed Altaher is under arrest on suspicion of rape. 142 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,295 Talk me through your movements between around 10am on 143 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,495 the Monday the 9th and sort of 1.30 in the afternoon. 144 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,295 Tell me what you did, where you went. 145 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,575 I met a guy who was visiting from Australia. 146 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:49,975 OK. His name, I think, Andy. 147 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,615 He came to my home, we kissed each other, 148 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,415 and I had consensual sex with him. 149 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,495 At the end, when I finish, ejaculated, 150 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,575 I saw the guy felt nervous, 151 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,895 and I said, "Excuse me, what's happening to you?" 152 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,375 So I touched his cheeks and I kissed him. Yeah. 153 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,215 I said, "Why are you feeling like this?" 154 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:09,975 He said, "Mohammed, is not your problem. 155 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,895 “It's something related to me. It's not your fault. 156 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,495 “It's not your fault." The duration of his stay in my home, 157 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,855 no more than three, four minutes, maximum. 158 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,375 You can check the CCTV. And the other thing 159 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,095 I want to draw your attention, he is bigger than me, four times. 160 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,695 So if he touched me with his hand, I will just die, honestly. 161 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,015 Australian, big boy. That's all, 162 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,055 and it was consensual sex, with his consent. OK. 163 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,655 And you can check the CCTV for the duration of... 164 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:38,015 We're going to do that. We'll do that, but let's go back to the 165 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,375 beginning because I need to understand, OK, everything that 166 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,735 happened on that day. Yeah. All right? 167 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,455 So how did you come to start talking on Grindr? 168 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,135 Talk me through that. Because he liked... 169 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,495 He said, "Ethnicity is a turn-on for me." 170 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,455 So I thought because of my ethnicity, is Arab. Yeah. 171 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,975 And he is my type. Very good-looking, blonde. 172 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,975 And I gave him my address on... 173 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,895 ...on WhatsApp and he came over. OK. 174 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,175 How long have you been on Grindr? 175 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,895 Uh, a long, long time, yeah. 176 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,935 What would you use Grindr for? 177 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,695 It's like any gay person, it's for sexual... 178 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,015 We are promiscuous culture, so we just meet guys on Grindr 179 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,895 and have sex. And that's what it's for? 180 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,215 So you meet just for purely sexual...? Yeah. That's what is... 181 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:18,935 ...what is it for, Grindr, yeah. OK. 182 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,135 And how many men do you think that you would normally meet on it? 183 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,135 Maybe five a week. Five a week? 184 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,495 And how long do you think you've been meeting these guys? 185 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,415 Since 2010, in the United Kingdom. OK. 186 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,015 And no-one made allegation like that. OK. 187 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:43,615 So let's go back to when you first met each other. 188 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,935 Talk me through that initial sort of contact. 189 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,295 What happened, initially? 190 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,615 He's come to your home address. OK. 191 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,415 I said, "You're very good-looking, nice..." 192 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,775 And he was smiling as well. Nothing... There is nothing... 193 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,215 I am surprised, actually, there is a complaint being raised 194 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,295 to the police. OK. I am actually surprised and shocked 195 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,775 why this is happening at all. OK. So talk me through. 196 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,135 You've got into the bedroom. 197 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,695 Yeah, and I had sex with him consensually. OK. 198 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,415 And I finished quickly, actually. 199 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,815 Actually less than ten seconds, inside ten seconds. Right, OK. 200 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,935 That's all, honestly, consensual, and I didn't have any... 201 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,775 I didn't force any sex, I swear to God. I think... 202 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,095 Do you understand what rape is? 203 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,095 Do you understand what the term rape means? 204 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,655 Anything non consensual, 205 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:30,695 and he was consented to the sex and to the anal, actually. 206 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,455 He asked me to fuck him. 207 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,655 At any time, did he try to push you off of him? 208 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,215 No, under no circumstances. Never. 209 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,175 At any time, did he tell you, "No," and to stop? 210 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,455 Never. I am innocent, innocent, innocent. And... 211 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,815 You've not been charged with anything, OK? 212 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,775 Like I said, this is to get your account, all right? 213 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,175 Thank you very much. 214 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,615 Are you back in the office? Yeah. OK, perfect. 215 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,495 Hopefully I'll be back soon. 216 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,375 Are you able to give me a quick brief? 217 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,735 Yeah, so, quickly, what he's saying is, 218 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,895 yes, he's agreed that he's come to the house. 219 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,215 Um, they've been kissing passionately and ended up 220 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:12,375 in the bedroom. 221 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,735 Start having sex, but he's saying it was all consensual afterwards. 222 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,175 He meets about five-plus guys a week to have sex with. 223 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,455 Um, he tried to say that all homosexuals are promiscuous, 224 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,295 um, and that's just the way it was, basically, that's what he was trying 225 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,655 to say to us. OK, all right. 226 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:34,055 He was all very much, "I'm very innocent,” but he was very vague 227 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,415 around the details of the actual of fence itself. 228 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,655 Is there anything other than the obvious 229 00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:47,335 that I need to ask our victim? 230 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,735 Right, so things like, "Where did he put his penis?” 231 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,335 "Did you feel anything?" - ie, like, pain and stuff like that. Yeah. 232 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,895 Sex is a consensual act that you have with another person. 233 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,895 Rape is something which is forced upon you. 234 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,895 Consent is the be all and end all 235 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,495 in every situation where you're engaging in a sexual act 236 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,415 with somebody else. 237 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,735 But at the end of the day, there was only two of us there. 238 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,855 OK, Andy, in as much detail as you can, tell me what happened. 239 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,535 Uh, so I buzzed his apartment, and I was let in. Mm-hm. 240 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,735 Um, and as I made my way to the front door of the apartment, 241 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,175 um, he must have heard me coming because he opened the door. 242 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,095 He immediately, um, grabbed me 243 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,335 and started kissing me, and I thought it was really strange. 244 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,855 There was no hello or anything like that whatsoever. Mm-hm. 245 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,735 And I'm like, "OK, well, this is kind of what I came here for, so... 246 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,535 "..OK, great.” 247 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:02,935 But he was being very forceful. 248 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,615 Um, so I said, "Slow down." 249 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,975 Yeah, yeah. "It's OK." Yeah. 250 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,295 Um, so then we walked into his bedroom and he pushed me 251 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,015 down on to the bed, and I just thought, "This is a bit strange 252 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,375 "because he's already undressing himself, and I've been here for 253 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:21,815 "not even a minute. 254 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,775 "Um, but, OK, let's see where this goes." 255 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,095 I don't really feel in danger just yet. It's just a bit strange. Mm. 256 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:32,615 Um... 257 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,455 He said, "Oh, have you got any chems?" 258 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,135 As in drugs or something like that. 259 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,895 Um, and I'm like "No, I don't do that." Mm-hm. 260 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,295 Um, and that made me feel more uncomfortable 261 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,015 because it immediately kind of scares me. Mm-hm. 262 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,095 But I didn't really expect what was coming anyway. Mm-hm. 263 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,535 So, basically, what he did was he sat on top of me straight away 264 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:00,135 and tried to put his penis into my arse. Mm-hm. 265 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,175 Um, so I had many things going through my mind. 266 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,895 The first is, "Well, this is really quick! 267 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,495 “I'm not even aroused yet." 268 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,095 You know, "I've been here for about a minute and he's already 269 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,455 "trying to do that, like, no lube or anything." Mm-hm. 270 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,375 And I just said to him, you know, "This is going a bit fast.” 271 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,335 You know, "If you want to do that, that's fine, 272 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,855 "but we've got to use lube." Mm-hm. 273 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,855 "I can't do it without lube because it hurts too much." Mm-hm. 274 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:31,455 And then he pushed his penis back into my arse. 275 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,975 Um, and I said, "Ouch! No, that hurts. Stop." 276 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,095 Mm-hm. 277 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,495 Um, as he penetrated me again, 278 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,055 he actually put his legs on both sides of my legs 279 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,375 and was pushing them together really hard. Right. 280 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,655 I couldn't move, basically. Mm-hm. 281 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,015 And then I'm just like, “I'm just going to have to sit 282 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,375 "here and deal with it and wait until it's over." 283 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:04,015 So I remember just pushing my hand on to my face like that and just 284 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,415 closing my eyes, basically, and waiting for it to be over. 285 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:08,415 OK. 286 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,295 In that interview, you learn to be very impartial. 287 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,935 It's important that, you know, you sit down and you explore 288 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,295 both accounts and all the investigative inquiries 289 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,015 that come out of that. 290 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,295 The fine-grain detail is the difficult stuff. 291 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,695 It's actually talking about what has happened to them, 292 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,055 something that's very personal, very intimate. 293 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,575 Consent is very difficult to prove, 294 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:46,655 so we have to get into the mindset of the perpetrator. 295 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,175 Why did they think that the victim was consenting? 296 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,375 In as much detail as you can, 297 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,455 you say that he has tried to put his penis in your arse 298 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,775 and you've...you've reacted. Yeah. 299 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,535 So describe to me exactly how you reacted. 300 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,855 Pretty intense reaction. Mm. So I was like, "Ow!" You know? 301 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,535 "Stop. That hurts." Yeah. 302 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,775 "We're not doing this without lube." OK. 303 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,295 Had you had a discussion about using any...? 304 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,495 I mean, how did you prepare his bottom for sex? You mean lube? 305 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,015 Yeah. well, did you use any of that? 306 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,215 I have a lot of precum. A lot of what, sorry? 307 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,575 Uh, precum... Precum. Oh, precum. 308 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,495 A lot of precum, more than the lube. Right. More than the lube. 309 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,255 He said, "Mohammed, it's hard. Can we use the lube?" 310 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,575 By the time I brought it, I came already. 311 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,575 So that's it. Right. 312 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,695 When I said, "Ow!", that's the second time, 313 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,695 he actually pushed me down 314 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,695 as I've tried to get up again. OK. 315 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,735 And how far did your penis go into his bottom? 316 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,535 I don't think it's so far. Not really. Not... 317 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,815 Yeah, but how far is not really? Probably like this. 318 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,175 He pushed it all the way in immediately, 319 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,935 so obviously I reacted again, "Ow! Stop." Yeah. 320 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:04,375 To which point he just kept going, like, pounding. Mm-hm. 321 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,775 Um, and then he said, "I'm going to cum in your arse. Is that OK?" 322 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,815 And I'm just like, "I don't have a choice. 323 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,735 "You're pinning me down." Yeah. 324 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,575 He didn't give me the impression he's uncomfortable at all. OK. 325 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,055 Did he say ouch at any point? Did he say ouch...? Yeah, sorry. 326 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,095 I'm sorry, he can handle bigger than mine. 327 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,095 How would you know that? Because he's too big. 328 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,775 The guy's too big. 329 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,255 He's experienced bottom, no? 330 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,455 I said, "I am coming," and he kept it. 331 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,015 He kept... He wanted it. 332 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,055 Yeah. He stopped moving, so he wanted the cum inside him. 333 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,295 I remember sitting down on the train and I was sore already, 334 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,655 and it had only been half an hour or so. 335 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,575 Um, so the Met organised the next day to go to A&E. 336 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,815 I had to take swabs of my... 337 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,055 ...anal cavity, I suppose, 338 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,735 and then that's when I just broke down again. Yeah. 339 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,575 Because, you know, I've got it... 340 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,455 I'm in a clinic, lying on a bed, 341 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,015 and I've got three women looking at my arse, and they're taking swabs 342 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,855 from inside of me... Mm-hm. 343 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,575 ...and I just... HE EXHALES 344 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,815 That's when I'm just like, "How did I get myself into this situation?” 345 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:16,575 Mm. 346 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,215 You said at one point he'd stopped moving. 347 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,055 Yeah, yeah, he like... Because in the sex, you know, you move. 348 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,775 So you're saying that he did ask to use lube... 349 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,255 Yes, he did, and I stopped. And you stopped... Yes, I stopped. 350 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,255 ...but you also ejaculated. Yes. 351 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:34,895 And he stopped moving at that point. 352 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,975 Yeah, but normally the move is, uh, like, normal, the sex. 353 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,335 That's normal practice to move in the bed. 354 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:43,975 OK. 355 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,735 He has quite significant bruising to his legs and to his forearms. 356 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,095 I...I don't know about this. 357 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:54,495 I'm actually shocked. He's also... You're shocked? I am shocked now, 358 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,175 what are you talking about? 359 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,975 He's also had to attend Accident and Emergency because of injuries 360 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,455 to his bottom. 361 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,975 I don't... To be honest, I don't know about this. 362 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,535 You don't know about that? No. 363 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,895 So that wouldn't be from you trying to force your penis 364 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,615 into his bottom without any lubricant? No. 365 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,895 Under no circumstances. 366 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,255 Just purely, absolutely no consideration 367 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,295 for my feelings whatsoever... Mm-hm. ..or for my pleasure. 368 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,695 Like, it's almost like I could have been a blow-up doll 369 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,055 and the result for him would have been the same. Mm-hm. 370 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,775 That's how I felt. It was purely for him to get himself off, 371 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,375 and that was it. OK. 372 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,655 Um, OK. I've got no further questions for you. OK? 373 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,015 So I'm going to conclude this interview at 1448 hours. 374 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,335 BEEP 375 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,055 I do not want to live here any more. 376 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,935 I do not want to live in the United Kingdom. 377 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,135 It's not my wish. 378 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,015 I had to leave Iraq because I am homosexual 379 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,735 and my life will be subject to persecution. 380 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,695 For example, if they were to find, like, I'm gay, 381 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,455 it would be sentenced to death. 382 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,735 But I would rather to die in Iraq, 383 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,015 rather than living and subjected 384 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,535 to this degrading treatment. 385 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,775 Well, there was... They knew why he was going there. There was... 386 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,295 The victim has been quite open about that... Yeah. 387 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,135 ...and about why he was coming. 388 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,815 His issue is, generally in these situations, 389 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,215 there's conversation, agreement... 390 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,055 which there was none of when he arrived. ..when they arrive, about 391 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,215 what they wanted to do and how it was going to work and protection 392 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,175 and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. 393 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,055 And it's that, that it's happened very quickly 394 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,375 and been very forceful, that, 395 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,735 because you don't need me to tell you that 396 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,495 that is undermining in some ways... Yeah. 397 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,735 ...and we need to be very open with the CPS about that. Yeah. 398 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,895 So we're saying, yes, our victim knew why he was here, 399 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,695 he's told us that he was there for sex... Yeah. ..but not in the 400 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,055 manner that it was... That it's occurred, 401 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,455 and the fact that, when he's been... he's told him no, and as soon 402 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,535 as he's said, "No, we need to... Ouch! Get off me," kind of thing, 403 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,495 "we need to use lube,"” and he's continued. 404 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,175 Because the victim obviously describes himself as freezing. 405 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,615 And then he's carried on. That's what... You clarified that point 406 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,495 as well, didn't you? And he said, 407 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,855 "And that's when he's ejaculated inside." 408 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,895 He's saying that the stopping of the movement was indication 409 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,055 that he was willing for him to cum inside. 410 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,335 Oh! I know. 411 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,015 OK. Rather than pulling away. Interesting. Yeah. 412 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,295 That's an interesting, um... 413 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,575 Concept. ..concept. 414 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:28,575 Yeah. 415 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,575 I think that's the landlord. 416 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,895 The victim's, like, got surf-blonde hair, 417 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,135 bleached blonde hair. Oh, OK. 418 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,535 The cyber unit analyse CCTV footage seized from the suspect's flat. 419 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:47,935 What time's that? 420 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,335 12:00, according to that. 421 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,295 Dropped off by taxi, was that, or a friend? Friend, I think. 422 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,495 Is this the only camera, or have we got...? 423 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,455 No, we've got the other ones for this. 424 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,015 Apparently, starts, like, trying to kiss him almost straight away. 425 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,695 So if you've got one of him in that corridor... 426 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,335 Um... 427 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,175 There he is. 428 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,535 The world's not a perfect place, 429 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,415 and there are people out there that lie. 430 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,055 You know, we're not here just to turn around and hit someone 431 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,455 with a large stick and say, you know, "You're guilty." 432 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,375 You have to look at both sides. 433 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,055 And it may not be as crystal-clear as what that person 434 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,255 has actually said. 435 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,415 She's interested to know how he comes out of there in terms of... 436 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,055 OK. But the lady that dropped him off said he literally, 437 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,895 like, less than ten minutes later, 438 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,935 so, you know, when he leaves, if he's obviously been 439 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,375 sexually assaulted, if he skips out, then, you know, 440 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,095 there might be an issue. 441 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,175 This is him leaving. 442 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,255 Yeah? Yeah. 443 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,655 Distraught? Mm... 444 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,655 Hard to tell, really. 445 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,175 Good afternoon. Bedfordshire Police. How can I help? 446 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,295 We've obviously been given a certain amount of information, 447 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,095 but you may hold more that we could possibly present 448 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:06,575 to the Crown Prosecution Service. 449 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:13,015 If you were able to provide me with the victim's personal details, 450 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,295 it would massively strengthen our case. 451 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,055 Oh, right. No problem. OK. Leave that with me. 452 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,055 All right, then. Thank you. Bye-bye. 453 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,055 It's came to our attention that we have two male rapes... 454 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,655 ...that were reported by a sexual health clinic. 455 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,615 Yeah. Both of those males have named Mohammed 456 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,935 and given his address 457 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,935 as the scene for both of those rapes. 458 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,135 OK. 459 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,895 So, yeah, interesting. Very. 460 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,815 A very active, we believe... Yeah. ..sexual attacker, really. 461 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,935 Mm. Sexual predator who's preying on men in a certain way. 462 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,655 Did he meet these men in the same way as he met our...? 463 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,095 Grindr appears to be the common denominator. Right. 464 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,895 So I've approached to see if they are willing to disclose 465 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,735 the victim's details, 466 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,455 bearing in mind we're dealing with a serious crime here. 467 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,055 To give the sexual health clinic time to decide 468 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,375 if they will reveal the names, 469 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,975 the team are granted an extra 12 hours to keep their suspect 470 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,255 in custody. 471 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,695 Um, is everybody OK to stay on at the moment? 472 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,015 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? 473 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,895 Let's all say no and leave Clare by herself! 474 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,255 LAUGHTER No! 475 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,895 We'll see you tomorrow! Bye, Clare! Bye! No, I'm joking... 476 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,695 Well, we don't all have to stay till the very end... Aw! 477 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,055 We're all in it till the end! We always do. 478 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,335 We always stay together. You are a diamond. 479 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,535 DOG BARKS 480 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,375 Since the incident, Andrew has been looked after 481 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,735 by a friend in Bedford. 482 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,495 It's not really something that's reported much, that it happens 483 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,735 to males, so when it does happen to a male, there's a lot of shame 484 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,375 around that. 485 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:11,895 It could happen to anybody. Yeah. 486 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,175 You can't pigeonhole a victim, can you? 487 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,895 You know, I've never had a bad experience. 488 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,215 Everybody that I have met through Grindr 489 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,975 has been respectful of me. 490 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,535 It can, ironically, be a safer way of meeting people, 491 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,095 especially if you are not yet out to your friends and family. 492 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,015 You know, I did arrange to meet somebody, but they have no right 493 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,335 to do what they did. 494 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:41,095 When you're in that situation, you just...you just don't know 495 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:43,455 how you're going to react. And it was literally, you do 496 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,615 what you need to do in order to get out safely. Yeah, yeah. 497 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,135 The cyber team are examining 498 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,655 the contents of the suspect's phone for evidence. 499 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,175 Having examined, you know, several hundreds of phones, 500 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,655 it's kind of an eye-opener into... 501 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,295 It almost kind of gives you a look at what that person's like. 502 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,895 We can try and have an idea of whether you're a wrong'un or not 503 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,695 by what they're Googling. 504 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,895 Yes, they can wipe data, yes, they can wipe photos, 505 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,135 but we can also recover them. 506 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,495 Uh, hang on a second. I've just got... 507 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:44,015 He's got himself down as 28, height 170, weight 65, muscular... 508 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:48,855 ...Middle Eastern, single... 509 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,255 ...clean-cut, jock, twink. 510 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,895 You say you found chat between the two? 511 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,655 I've got the corresponding chats here. 512 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,295 All right, OK. Because this isn't... He hasn't got that on here. 513 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,495 He's obviously deleted the chat from here. 514 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,815 Um, looks like we've got nothing from between the 3rd and the 11th. 515 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,455 He has kept previous conversations between other people 516 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,975 before that date, so it's kind of a little bit suspicious 517 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,815 that he's only deleted that message stream, but... 518 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,295 The Grindr chat stream is missing from the suspect's device 519 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,295 but can still be read on the victim's phone. 520 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,975 This is his Grindr account. OK. 521 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,695 The victim says, "Hey," and then says, "You're beautiful.” 522 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:45,975 Then he sends that. 523 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,335 We can't get away from the fact that we have to explore how they met 524 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,535 this person, how they interacted with them, what communication 525 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,095 went on beforehand. 526 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:07,335 Yes, they may well have gone round there for sexual intercourse, 527 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:13,775 but the terms of that agreement can change, and therefore that consent 528 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,095 can be withdrawn. 529 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,455 It's a bit worrying, actually, not having used Grindr before, 530 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,455 trying to find how to navigate it. So the last thing you want to do is 531 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,575 start liking things and stuff like...! Swipe left, "You're hot... 532 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,615 LAUGHTER "..you're this!" Um... 533 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,375 No heart facilities that you can tap on! 534 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,815 LAUGHTER That's always a bit worrying. 535 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,575 To strengthen their case against the suspect, the team 536 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,095 still need to identify the two new potential victims. 537 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,655 Just waiting to come back to us with those other victims. 538 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,735 That's our threshold test, isn't it? You know, if this is a 539 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,455 continued repeat offender. 540 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,135 Jo's going to go back in to interview. 541 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,455 Any information through yet at all? No. 542 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,735 Oh, oh, actually, coming now. 543 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,095 Oh! Oh! 544 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,415 Stand by. Standing by. 545 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,335 "Will not be disclosing this information today." 546 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,655 Any reason why not? "Given the nature of this case and the sensitivity of the personal 547 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,695 "information you have requested, we respond to say that we will not be disclosing this 548 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,215 "information today. We have to consider whether the public interest 549 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,895 "overrides the duty of confidence we owe the patients 550 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,495 "and will therefore be discussing this further 551 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,255 "before providing you with any further information.” 552 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,015 The overriding factor is patient confidentiality, isn't it? 553 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,215 Yeah, but the risk to the public, surely... We could be having a bit 554 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,175 of a battle here. 555 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,375 Let's see how he reacts to this. 556 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,775 Even though police lack a positive ID, the suspect is rearrested and 557 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,375 interviewed about the two further rape allegations 558 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,535 in the hope he might identify the victims himself. 559 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,935 The date is Friday the 13th of September. 560 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,535 Time by my watch is at 2113 hours. 561 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,455 OK, Mohammed. So you've been further arrested on suspicion of 562 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,415 two more of fences of anal rape. OK? 563 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,735 The further of fences have occurred on two separate dates 564 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,575 and involved separate victims. 565 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,455 It's been alleged by the victim that on the 4th of the 8th, 566 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,855 he has willingly attended your client's home address 567 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,215 after meeting online and talking to each other. 568 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,095 I don't remember... You don't remember that incident? No. 569 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,255 OK, let's go back, then, to what this guy is saying, then. 570 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,815 If you can't remember in relation to this... I mean, this is a 571 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,415 very serious allegation. I never raped someone. 572 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,375 Anyone comes to my home, it's consensually having sex with me, 573 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,815 otherwise I wouldn't meet him in the first instance. 574 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,695 OK, so I know what you're saying because prior to this interview, 575 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,095 we had the first interview, you said that it's always consensual, 576 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,455 that these males come on the pretence that they're going to 577 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,775 have sex with you. Yes, that's what they... They turn up and 578 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,495 have sex with you. Right, OK. 579 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,255 And I have a lot of, you know, guys are jealous of me. 580 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,055 You know what I mean? On Grindr, jealous of my attention, 581 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,855 on my... The... Why I have more attention than them, 582 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,775 why I reject them. Some guys, I said, "Excuse me, not my type." 583 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,015 So they feel jealous, and... That's why they would make an allegation 584 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,415 of rape? Of course. That's... You are intelligent. 585 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,135 Gay culture are jealous, based on jealousy. 586 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,055 "Why he's having more sex than me? 587 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,335 "Why I don't have the same attention?" Right, OK. 588 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,575 You deleted your WhatsApp. 589 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,935 Yes, because of the...a lot of messages and disturbance 590 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,335 from the Grindr as well. 591 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,335 When did you delete it? 592 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,495 Uh, I don't remember. 593 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,455 So you're telling me that all three of these incidents that we 594 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,855 talked about today are consensual? Mm-hm. 595 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,255 You're saying that three men have all come to your home address 596 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,855 and they're all alleging that you've raped them after meeting 597 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,735 them on Grindr. Mm-hm. 598 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,455 But the truth of the matter is that you've lured them to your flat 599 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,815 and raped them in the belief that they would not report these matters 600 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,335 because they're all very vulnerable, aren't they? That's your opinion. 601 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,255 Come on. It is my opinion, but I'm asking you. Can we talk about facts, 602 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,935 not opinion, please? I mean... That is my opinion. 603 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,095 Grindr is a gay site. People meet for sex. Yeah, all three males do 604 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,175 not know each other. What reason...? No, these guys... You don't trust 605 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,815 anybody to come to his house. I'm sorry... You're asking questions... 606 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,695 You're answering questions on behalf of your client. No, no, you're... 607 00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:24,295 You're answering questions on behalf of your client. You cannot do that. 608 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,655 No, no... No, I'm not, but I think that you're implying things 609 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,655 which are not correct. I've asked him a question. 610 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,175 I never... We've answered that question. No comment. 611 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,455 You've answered the question. Forget it now. 612 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,095 Is it true that you're just a predator and you prey 613 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,975 on vulnerable...? No comment. OK. 614 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,535 I've answered, it's your opinion. 615 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,175 OK. If you've got nothing further to add, then, I will conclude this 616 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,615 interview at 2155 hours on the 13th of September, 2019. 617 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,855 BEEP 618 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,095 The team have been working on the case for 16 hours straight. 619 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,335 CPS.direct. 620 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,815 We need a charge on this man. 621 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,215 DS Gilbert puts the case to the Crown Prosecution Service 622 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,255 with the evidence they have so far. 623 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,255 I don't know, I'm 50-50 on it as to whether we'll get it. 624 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,815 Give it a whirl. Give it a whirl. 625 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,975 In cases where we feel that the of fence is so serious 626 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,735 that it justifies an immediate charging decision, we can approach 627 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,775 the CPS on what we call the threshold test. 628 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,615 I need some inspiration in relation to why he's a flight risk. 629 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,655 Ultimately, what you are asking for is, 630 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,175 "We haven't finished our investigation here, but we feel 631 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,015 “that there is a reasonable grounds 632 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:07,055 "to suspect that they have committed this of fence, and by releasing them 633 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,855 "while we do all those extra inquiries could ultimately mean 634 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,535 “that they could continue to commit more of fences on the public, 635 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:21,655 "or they may well not answer bail or not come back, 636 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,495 "be a flight risk, disappear.” 637 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,815 I think what you can also put in there is, um, that he's sort of 638 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,215 got some kind of addiction towards having sex 639 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:38,935 with unknown males, and that's what is the concern. 640 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,295 If he's allowed to... That he's going to carry on. 641 00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:54,335 DC Lesley Horton is tasked with presenting the case to the CPS. 642 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,775 They will decide whether or not to charge Mohammed Altaher. 643 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,295 No, it's not a stranger rape. 644 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,135 It's a male victim who has met 645 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:10,055 with the suspect via the app Grindr. 646 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,695 The issue is consent, yeah. 647 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:20,095 The suspect is saying that at no point has the victim said, 648 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,415 "No, stop."” 649 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,495 Well, our victim has been completely open and honest about the reasons 650 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:29,695 why he went there. 651 00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:33,615 He's not suggesting for one second that he hasn't gone there for sex. 652 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,975 However, his consent has immediately been withdrawn 653 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,935 when he has said, you know, 654 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,855 "I'm not going to have sex with you unless you use lubrication.” 655 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,695 The suspect then pushed the victim down on to the bed, 656 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:53,655 pushed his knees on either side of his legs, held him down, 657 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,615 and then forcibly raped him for about 20 seconds. 658 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,815 However, we also have two further 659 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,895 reports from two separate males 660 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,935 who have disclosed that 661 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,215 they have also been raped 662 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:13,175 and named our suspect. 663 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:21,935 All right. Thank you. 664 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,855 They want to read it themselves? Yeah, he wants to read it. 665 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,655 He just said, "Is it not undermining?” 666 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,015 I said, "No, not at all." No, well done. 667 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,695 Good. That's how we need to turn it around. 668 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:37,455 That...that's for a court to decide, whether the fact that he went there 669 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,215 for sex undermines what subsequently... 670 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:43,175 It doesn't, does it? It shouldn't... It shouldn't, 671 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,455 but that's not for CPS. 672 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,775 That's for a court to decide. Yeah. 673 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,415 We're kind of running out of options at the minute. 674 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,095 While the CPS deliberate, Steve Gorman has managed to access 675 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,015 a second seized phone, which has been identified 676 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,975 as belonging to a friend of the suspect. 677 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,855 Well, that was quick. 678 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,095 Oh, there we go. 679 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,015 Steve has found a voice message 680 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,775 Mohammed has sent about the incident 681 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,855 with the victim. 682 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,415 I don't know whether you want to just come and have a quick listen. 683 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,735 So this is a message stream within WhatsApp. 684 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,135 MOHAMMED: Australian boy, gorgeous. 685 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,495 Once I put my dick inside him, I came immediately. 686 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,935 He felt nervous and was shaken and left with his friend, 687 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,455 now outside to come collect him. 688 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,215 I mean, I don't know, I didn't do anything. 689 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:47,455 Uh, and he left, was shaken. I'm not sure, what is this? 690 00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:52,135 Did you get all that? Yeah. Yeah. 691 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,935 He does say, "But I didn't do anything." 692 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,815 But actually what he says there is he...he was shaking. 693 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:08,175 So he is accepting that the victim was presenting in that way. 694 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:09,375 OK. 695 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,815 That makes it sound as if there had been some sort of issue 696 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,135 at the scene. 697 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,335 Hello. We've just had some more information come in. 698 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,335 Just wanted to pass it across to you. 699 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,055 The CPS is updated with the new voicemail evidence recovered 700 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,455 by the cyber unit. 701 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,055 Our suspect has sent voice messages about the fact 702 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,615 that he's just had a beautiful, um, Australian man. 703 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,015 And then he said, 704 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,615 "And he was shaking and nervous,” 705 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,135 and then he said, "but I haven't done anything wrong."” 706 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,495 Yeah. SHE EXHALES 707 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,815 WHISPERING: We really want to charge him. 708 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,855 OK. Can I just say one thing? 709 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,695 My... Me and my Sergeant are sort of - 710 00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:58,295 I'm sure you can probably tell - 711 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,615 quite keen to get this chap charged, 712 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,775 but can I just ask you to speak to my Detective Sergeant? 713 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,575 She's just literally stood next to me. 714 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,535 Would you just have a quick chat with her? 715 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:09,775 Thank you. 716 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,775 Obviously, I value, you know, your thoughts 717 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,415 and what your perspective is in relation to how challenging 718 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,215 a case it is. 719 00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:25,735 I mean, I just, you know, wanted to sort of express on you how, um, 720 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,895 we as an organisation are very concerned as to the risk 721 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,495 that this male poses should he be released on bail. 722 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:38,935 The suspect has not, um, accounted for the injuries that the victim 723 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,055 has got in any way, shape or form. 724 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,735 Um, OK. Perfect. Thank you for your time. Thank you. 725 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,295 Cheers. Bye-bye. 726 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:52,695 He said they're very difficult charging decisions to make and that, 727 00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:57,335 you know, he wants to go to another supervisor. 728 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,535 Mm. Well, we can't do any more. No. 729 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,615 I don't think we can put it across any stronger than we have. No. 730 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,855 I've been nine years in the United Kingdom 731 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,655 without any criminal of fence. 732 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,415 Ten seconds, ten seconds of sexual...consensual sex. 733 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,815 They said it's rape. This is hilarious. 734 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,615 PHONE RINGS Ooh! 735 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,215 Hello. 736 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,095 Hiya. 737 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,495 Um, we've got, you know, some concerns, evidentially. 738 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,615 You know, the fact that he's got no previous convictions. Mm. 739 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,975 We didn't think it was an appropriate case... OK. 740 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,735 CLARE SIGHS 741 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,095 All right. Thank you. 742 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,535 Thanks. Bye. 743 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,775 There was no point me saying anything else. 744 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,575 I don't understand it. 745 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,895 Can't really get... 746 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,535 As for a rape case, you can't really get a lot more, 747 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,815 unless someone's just watched him. 748 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,415 It's... 749 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,775 It's just so, so, so frustrating. 750 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,215 Yeah. 751 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,015 In my 23 years, 752 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,655 I think rape is probably the most difficult of of fences 753 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,135 to try and prosecute. 754 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,655 I feel frustration, 755 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,095 that decision is perhaps made too early 756 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,775 that a case won't progress. 757 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,975 RATTLING Right... 758 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:58,695 We don't feel that bail is appropriate because the of fence 759 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,735 is so serious, there is a risk to the public. 760 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,695 It's very difficult for us to police any kind of bail condition 761 00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:24,215 that could potentially stop further of fences from happening. 762 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,415 I do wonder why somebody could do this to somebody 763 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:40,935 and then be set free. 764 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,335 I know that the CPS has their rules 765 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,215 and their laws, and everything needs 766 00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:51,455 to be done correctly. 767 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,855 Um, but it's very difficult to know that this happened to me and, uh, 768 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,295 that they've been released from custody. 769 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,335 The fact that he is still around and could potentially do this 770 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,815 to somebody else is something that does frighten me. 771 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,735 "I want to fuck you." That's it. Mm! 772 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,935 How many times do you think you've had sex since being released? 773 00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:46,335 Ten. Ten, that's nothing. 774 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,455 Since September 10th. That's nothing, yeah. 775 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,015 I fucked this one. I fucked this one. I fucked this one. 776 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,375 The guys I meet are beautiful. 777 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,855 I fucked this one. I fucked this one. It's a lot. 778 00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,375 It's an addiction. Addiction. 779 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,815 But it doesn't mean you rape people. 780 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,135 No, because plenty of attention... 781 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,815 If this one not good, the other one is good. 782 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:07,895 PHONE CHIRPS 783 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,695 "Hi, good-looking, man." 784 00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:11,935 You see, any guy I like, I can get. 785 00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:15,495 He is my type. 786 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:16,575 Oh, my God... 787 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,255 Grindr is, uh, not a dating app. 788 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:21,295 It's a sex app. 789 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,935 And how many men do you think you're meeting? Say 4,0007? 790 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,295 4,000 guys. 791 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,615 I think so, yeah, honestly. 792 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,935 Because the videos are exceeding 4,000. 793 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,255 I can send him the address and he come here, fuck and go. 794 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,655 There's no need to rape or anything like this. 795 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,255 Rape is the force, taking the clothes, 796 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,935 force having sex, it's not consensual. 797 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,495 The police are judging because they do not understand the culture. 798 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,375 CLARE: In the Telegraph this week, 799 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,975 the headline was, "Rape convictions at record low." 800 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,695 The report said that the number of rape suspects referred 801 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:11,175 by the police to CPS for a charging decision fell 22.8%. 802 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,415 Bedfordshire Police receive another new allegation of rape. 803 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,455 We've just had another gentleman come forward. 804 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,935 He came forward yesterday to report that he's also been 805 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,575 raped by the suspect. 806 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,655 Yeah. No, that's fine. 807 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,015 I mean, obviously we haven't interviewed him yet. 808 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,335 Um, so we're just sort of putting things in motion 809 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,655 for today's inquiries. 810 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:41,975 Bye-bye. 811 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,175 SIREN WAILS 812 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,775 Police decide to re-arrest 33-year-old Dr Mohammed Altaher. 813 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,215 Right, Mohammed. I'm here to arrest you. 814 00:47:56,240 --> 00:48:00,055 It's alleged that you've raped a male in August. 815 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,615 Oh, it was the same, the one I was arrested? 816 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,415 No, this is for another one. 817 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,695 11th of August or what? No, this is completely different. 818 00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:10,975 I don't know... 819 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,015 It's an allegation you've been arrested on suspicion of. 820 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,055 Yeah, but, excuse me, allegation, false allegation. 821 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,815 We're going to be conducting a Section 32 search on the address, 822 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,735 and we're going to be looking for a couple of items, OK? 823 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,775 OK, let me just go into the shower first. 824 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,975 Does this case that we're looking at today predate the previous one? 825 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,335 The original job, 9th of September. OK. 826 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,655 This one happens on the 12th of August. OK. 827 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,615 This one actually came first, chronologically. Yeah, yeah. 828 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,055 So we're talking a month prior to the one we've already 829 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,735 interviewed him for and bailed him out on, yeah? Yeah. OK. 830 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,335 What do we know about our victim today? 831 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,935 Why has he reported it now, rather than August? 832 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,655 So he's then started having these sort of flashbacks... Oh, OK. 833 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,935 ...to this incident... OK. ..which has caused him to come forward. 834 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,335 Cos there was two that were... we were aware that went 835 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,295 to the hospital, didn't they? Yeah. 836 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,655 And then we got the incidents reported to us via intelligence, 837 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,455 but obviously the hospital wouldn't disclose any of those details. 838 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,415 Because this chap has gone to the health clinic. OK. 839 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:29,815 Sexual health clinic. Yeah. 840 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,695 Um, and it was them that encouraged him to come to the police. Good. 841 00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,055 Does this incident that we're looking at today 842 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,375 match the details of either of those two, or not? 843 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:39,855 I need to look at that. OK. 844 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,495 I haven't quite... Can we look at that one thing, first of all? Yeah. 845 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,615 And then we'll have another picture. Yeah. Cool. 846 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,015 This man's a predator, I tell you. 847 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,495 SHE SIGHS 848 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,295 The more victims that come forward, the more information 849 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,695 we have, can help to strengthen the case. 850 00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:08,335 It's about building that bigger picture. 851 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,695 We're looking for consistencies with what happened 852 00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:15,135 to our first victim. 853 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:26,215 And then we use those consistencies to put to our suspect, 854 00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:29,735 and he will have to account for that in interview. 855 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,815 I want to talk to you about your movements on 856 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,815 Monday the 12th of August, between roughly 12:00 and 6pm. 857 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,695 Now, I know it was a while ago, but obviously 858 00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:43,095 this is a serious allegation. 859 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,135 Do you recall meeting anyone at that time on that date? 860 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:47,975 Not really. No. 861 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,655 OK. 862 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,215 Um, OK, so let's talk about James, then. 863 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:54,855 Do you know who this male is? Not really. 864 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,855 It doesn't even ring alarm. 865 00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,975 You mentioned about meeting people on Grindr. Yeah. 866 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,375 Um, would you have met...? 867 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,295 You possibly met this guy through Grindr? 868 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,295 I... To be honest, I don't remember because I... 869 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,615 I don't remember. 870 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,695 The only guy I met, I... But I don't remember in August, 871 00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:17,135 Jamie from Dunstable. Is he from Dunstable? OK. 872 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,135 So tell me about Jamie from Dunstable, then. 873 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,015 Jamie is a lovely guy and I enjoyed sex with him, 874 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,735 and I had amazing sex with him, and... OK. 875 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,735 ...I do not recall any problem. 876 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,695 What is your understanding of the term "consent"? Consent? 877 00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:38,455 He asked me to have sex with him. Consensual. 878 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,015 That's what he came for, to my home. 879 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,695 Do you remember...? Consensual, and he was lovely. 880 00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:47,015 And, Jamie, I was very romantic with him. 881 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,215 OK. Because Jamie is... 882 00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:53,775 I'm interested in him, actually, as a boyfriend. 883 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,855 And I would not do this with Jamie. 884 00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,615 You wouldn't do that with Jamie? 885 00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,335 So are you implying you do it with other men? No, but I'm... 886 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,495 Because... No, I told you, Jamie, I am interested in him, 887 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,335 in long-term relationship. 888 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,655 What I am saying is hypothetical. 889 00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:26,495 PC Heather Hutchinson takes a statement from the new victim. 890 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,175 BEEP 891 00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,135 We met on Grindr, and met him with the intention 892 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,535 of having sex with him. 893 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,295 When you first got there, what happened? 894 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,615 He walked me in. Mm-hm. 895 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,215 He started kissing me. 896 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,495 And then he, um, undone my shorts 897 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,055 and pulled them down. 898 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,775 Even when I've met other people before, there have been some 899 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,135 sort of conversation, but with him there was none. 900 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,695 It was like, "You're here now. We're having sex." 901 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,255 And what was said when you first got into the flat? 902 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,895 Not much. It was a bit awkward, so didn't really say much. 903 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,775 He just started kissing me. 904 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:21,135 And then he introduced me to the, um...the drugs, 905 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:22,775 which were called Mcat. 906 00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:27,695 Did you take any illegal drugs on that date with Jamie? 907 00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:32,215 No, not really, no. Not really? No. Or no? No. No, OK. 908 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:34,655 Do you...do you take illegal drugs? No. 909 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,095 Do you know if Jamie took any drugs on that day? 910 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,415 No. He didn't? No. 911 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,335 Because he's made reference to the fact that you, um, 912 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,375 you encouraged him to take Mcat. 913 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,655 What can you tell me about that? 914 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,815 Not...not really. Not really? 915 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,375 No, no, I don't, I don't have this... Excuse me, 916 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,695 police searched my home and I do not have this. 917 00:53:57,720 --> 00:53:59,215 So we snorted it... 918 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,575 ...then we started to have sex, and that was all fine. 919 00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,695 It was consensual. We were both enjoying it. 920 00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:11,895 We were taking more of the drugs. 921 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:17,055 He climaxed and then I can't remember what happened exactly, 922 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,895 how it happened, but then I started to be sick. 923 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,255 It was almost like there's two parts to the day. OK. 924 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,895 So the beginning of the day, everything was fine, 925 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,695 we were both having a good time. 926 00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:41,015 When it all finished, that's when things started to get bad. 927 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,895 Do you know what Mcat is? 928 00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,415 No. 929 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,495 So it's an illegal substance 930 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,535 and it can make somebody very drowsy. Mm-hm. 931 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,135 Jamie says that you encouraged him to take Mcat, at which point 932 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,975 he started feeling quite nauseous, quite sick. 933 00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,695 Do you recall him being ill at any point when you were together? 934 00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:01,975 No. No? No. 935 00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,415 This drug that I've taken has really affected me. 936 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,175 It made me feel quite paranoid and very slow. 937 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,495 And he was like, "You'll feel better if you take a bit more. 938 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,175 "You'll feel better." 939 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,095 I knew that I really didn't want to, and I was saying, 940 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,335 “I don't want to take any more." 941 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,095 All I wanted to do was rest. 942 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:30,175 No was behind me and penetrated me again. 943 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:34,135 I didn't really want to do it then, but I didn't say no. 944 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:40,055 When he, like, pulled out, it was messy. 945 00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:45,095 And then Mo was shouting at me, saying, "Oh, go and clean up!" 946 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,895 So, Exhibit SHO1, and that's just described as a shower hose. 947 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,575 Mm-hm. 948 00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,495 This is my shower hose. 949 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,895 I use it to clean after each bowel movement. 950 00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,735 If they have been to the shower, it means the sex didn't go well. 951 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,055 Mo came in the bathroom, made me stand up in the shower... 952 00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,055 ...and then he pushed the, 953 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,295 um, shower inside me. 954 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,375 I was like, "Ow, it's hurting, it's hurting!" 955 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,335 And he would wait a bit longer to pull it out. 956 00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,455 And he started, like, kissing my butt, telling me he loved me 957 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,095 and that he wants me to be his boyfriend. 958 00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,295 And I remember being so confused. 959 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,935 My emotions were all over the place because I felt 960 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,855 like I had to impress him, 961 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,895 like I had to almost, like, perform for him. 962 00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:43,095 Looking back at it, I think it was all, like, manipulation. 963 00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,655 OK. Did you ever join him in the bathroom? 964 00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,215 No. 965 00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:51,775 No? No. OK. 966 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,175 And that's when he says that he's gone into. 967 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,015 You've gone into the bathroom. He's still feeling quite ill 968 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,655 at this point, and you've taken hold of that shower hose yourself. 969 00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,935 What did you do with that shower hose? 970 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,495 Because he's saying that you took that shower hose 971 00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,775 and you forcefully... No, no. ..shoved it up his bottom. 972 00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:12,775 No. 973 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,415 Why do you think I rape people, excuse me? 974 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,975 I'm not... I'm the one asking the questions. I don't need to... 975 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,335 I'm not suggesting you have raped anyone... I have no... 976 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,535 Why? He has been in my home, consensual, and he left. 977 00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:28,895 I didn't force him or anything like this. 978 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:33,455 So why should I alert police and...one after the other? 979 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:37,295 Am I crazy to rape someone on the 12th, on the 4th, on the 29th? 980 00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:42,055 Why only here in Bedford and only in this month I'm having this issue? 981 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,295 Excuse me. I don't know. Only you can answer that, I think. 982 00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,935 The rape investigation team receive an update on the dates 983 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,775 that the unidentified victims alleged they were assaulted 984 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,415 by the suspect. 985 00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,695 Just found the dates for the other two. Yep. One was the 28th of August 986 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,615 and one was the 4th of August. From the hospital? From the hospital. 987 00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,335 So there are two unknowns. OK. 988 00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,375 And then we've got this one today, which is the 12th of August. OK. 989 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,735 OK. So it's in the middle of those two. In the middle. 990 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,215 But it does look like there is four jobs... Yeah. 991 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,175 Rather than the three. Perfect. 992 00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,575 Um, don't get me wrong, it's getting better because we've got two victims 993 00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,975 who actually corroborate one another regarding this guy's MO, 994 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,455 um, but there's still lots of unanswered questions. 995 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,575 OK, so you've gone into the bathroom and you said, 996 00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,415 "He's come in to help me clean.” 997 00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,735 What was going through your head? 998 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,655 I can't remember clearly how we went back into the bedroom, but now 999 00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,095 I really didn't want to have sex, 1000 00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,815 and I was telling him I didn't want to. 1001 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,255 But we started having sex again. 1002 00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,255 And then I remember being on my front, on the bed, 1003 00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,295 and he was penetrating me, 1004 00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:15,895 and I was telling him, 1005 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,895 “I don't want to do this any more. It hurts." 1006 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,175 And then he wouldn't... 1007 00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:23,815 He wasn't stopping. 1008 00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,215 And then I was saying, "Oh, it's really hurting, it's hurting! 1009 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:30,775 "Stop, stop!" 1010 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,135 He was like, "Just let me finish. Just let me finish." 1011 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,455 He was getting rougher and rougher. 1012 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,175 And then when I realised he wasn't going to stop, 1013 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:40,535 I just kept crying. 1014 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,415 And then he started to make these almost, like, animal noises. 1015 00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,535 My whole body is tensed up and I was squeezed, and my hands 1016 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:56,295 were by my head, 1017 00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:00,655 and I was squeezing on to the pillows, and everything 1018 01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:02,655 about me was saying I was in pain. 1019 01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,655 I was crying, screaming, telling him I didn't like it 1020 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,295 and, like, squeezing the bed. 1021 01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:14,415 It felt like it was forever and, um, he just said, 1022 01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,375 "You shouldn't ask me to stop," as well. 1023 01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,695 So he knew that I didn't want to do it any more. 1024 01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,495 And he knew that I was in pain. 1025 01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,775 He's saying that the more that he cried and the more 1026 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,255 he told you to stop... 1027 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,615 If I do this one, I am anticipating... 1028 01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,415 OK, you're going to need to let me finish my question 1029 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,455 before you sort of interrupt. OK? 1030 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,935 He said the more that he cried and told him to stop, 1031 01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,975 the more excited, sexually excited you become. 1032 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,775 That's...that's calculating act. Now I'm really suspicious, 1033 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,895 excuse me. He's stating he is crying and saying it hurts. 1034 01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,215 At any point, did Jamie get upset? 1035 01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:00,695 No. 1036 01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,975 At any point... I got upset when he... I stopped the sex. OK. 1037 01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,015 At any point, has he told you that it's hurting him 1038 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:09,775 and he needs you to stop? 1039 01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,415 No. 1040 01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:18,135 OK, so Jamie is saying that whilst you were raping him, he was saying 1041 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:19,735 to you, "Stop, stop!" No. 1042 01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,655 And you were saying to him, "Just let me finish." 1043 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,935 Did you say that to him? No. 1044 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:30,735 So you never said, "Just let me finish"? 1045 01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,055 I don't recall Jamie at any time to ask me to stop the sex. 1046 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,455 If he'd have asked you to stop, how would you have reacted to that? 1047 01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,175 I would have stopped, actually. 1048 01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:49,655 OK, then I'm going to conclude this interview at, uh, 1602 hours 1049 01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,375 on the 19th of November. 1050 01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,495 I think God is penalising me with these things because I am gay. 1051 01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:09,455 I did nothing wrong. 1052 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,375 I did nothing wrong at all. 1053 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,655 I did not force anyone into sex. 1054 01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:15,655 I've always been kind to people. 1055 01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:20,135 I want to be straight and marry and go back to my country 1056 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:21,575 and my family. 1057 01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,375 That's why I was praying, to be straight. 1058 01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,175 I thought, because I was going there, because I wanted to have sex 1059 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,095 with him, that I couldn't be raped. 1060 01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,415 I felt like I wasn't in control, but I didn't feel 1061 01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:49,975 like he was in control either, 1062 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,295 and that's what was really scary. 1063 01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:56,495 There's a real line that's been crossed. 1064 01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,935 He should have stopped when I asked him to. 1065 01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,495 This is one of the most personal things you can do 1066 01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,815 with another human being. 1067 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:14,135 So when you have somebody who abuses your sexuality... 1068 01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,655 ...it is something that kind of hits you to the core. 1069 01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,575 Three years and nine months after the first allegation, 1070 01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:33,015 the CPS decide the case is strong enough to go before a jury. 1071 01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,935 There seems to be, certainly in my experience, a greater 1072 01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:39,815 reluctance of men to come forward in these kind of circumstances. 1073 01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:45,375 It's a societal question about how people see these kind of of fences 1074 01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,055 and the violation they involve. 1075 01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:53,255 The difficulties in cases like this are that the jury 1076 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:55,255 will approach it on the basis of, 1077 01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,295 "Well, they've gone for a sexual encounter, 1078 01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,535 "how on earth could this man be guilty of rape?" 1079 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,895 So the Crown Prosecution Service, with the police, will seek to build 1080 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,775 a case that shows that the victims were not consenting. 1081 01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,535 But in the first victim's case, we had an account from him 1082 01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,935 that he had engaged in a sexual encounter and then asked to stop, 1083 01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,495 and then Dr Altaher had carried on. 1084 01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:27,935 Now, the second victim had said a very similar account, 1085 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:32,335 and it was clear they could never have been collusion between them. 1086 01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,855 So we could take the details of the second victim's account, 1087 01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:41,215 and what it showed was a pattern of behaviour that involved 1088 01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,775 non consensual sexual acts. 1089 01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,855 ARCHIVE: A man who raped two men he met through the dating app Grindr 1090 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:55,175 has been jailed. 1091 01:04:56,440 --> 01:05:01,255 Mohammed Altaher violently attacked the men at his home in Bedford. 1092 01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:07,935 Out of his sentence, he got a total of 15 years. 1093 01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:09,335 SHE GASPS 1094 01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,455 But he's doing ten inside with five years on an extended licence. 1095 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,935 Oh! So, what a result. Wow! 1096 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,935 Yeah. What a result! Yes. 1097 01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:18,775 So he's gone for a while. 1098 01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,095 Oh, I'm so happy. Yes. Yes! 1099 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,695 Yeah. What a relief, isn't it? Yeah. 1100 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:24,575 It's a really, really positive result. 1101 01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,575 So, really pleased with that. Yeah. 1102 01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,495 Because it was a big, old team effort, wasn't it? 1103 01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:30,775 It really was. Yeah. Wasn't it? Yeah. 1104 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:35,495 ARCHIVE: Upon sentencing, the judge described Altaher as 1105 01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,975 "arrogant, narcissistic and self-obsessed." 1106 01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,215 He's been jailed for ten years. 1107 01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,895 The judge certainly concluded that Dr Altaher had no remorse... 1108 01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,695 that "what Dr Altaher wants, Dr Altaher gets, 1109 01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:56,615 "and if what you want is sexual intercourse, then the consent 1110 01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,415 "of whoever you want it with matters to you not at all. 1111 01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,775 That as far as Dr Altaher was concerned, 1112 01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,895 "it was his pleasure, and his pleasure alone, 1113 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,855 "that he was interested in." 1114 01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,695 I've never met anyone like that before, who wanted to do 1115 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,655 something so horrible. 1116 01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:22,975 There was a long time where I was having nightmares 1117 01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,295 of it happening again. 1118 01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,695 But now, not so much. 1119 01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,855 I definitely think that I am getting stronger, but it just takes time 1120 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:34,895 and lots of, um, help as well. 1121 01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:41,535 That's the only way you can start to really heal. 1122 01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:47,455 It's not something that I've done wrong. 1123 01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,375 It's something that he did. 1124 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,415 It's something I definitely don't want to go through again. 1125 01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:58,295 As for, is it going to change my perspective on meeting people? 1126 01:06:58,320 --> 01:06:59,975 At the moment, yes. 1127 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:04,615 But I'm determined to not let this affect the way that I interact 1128 01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:06,055 with others in my community. 1129 01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,175 Subtitles by Red Bee Media