This program me contains strong language and graphic scenes of injury some may find distressing
It's either a trophy or it's bravado.
It's egotistical.
It's a sense of, "Look, I've managed to take this from you,
your prized possession, and now I'm wearing it around my neck."
Would you do me a quick favour and just look at Lucy's notes
to see if there was any blood on this?
They set out with an idea to go and seek some retaliation
or retribution or threaten somebody, ancl then it escalates.
A positive reaction from the chemicals that indicate
the presence of blood.
A bit of an update, boss.
Yep.
The family said the victim had a big, bulky gold chain on,
and it's missing.
And it had the Tasmanian devil on the end.
It's crucial that we find the truth.
Police! Hands behind your back.
You've got to question everything.
Believe nobody.
It's almost a game of chess, try and get them to slip up.
This is your opportunity to talk to me.
Police emergency?
Right. We're sending officers now, OK? How badly hurt is he?
Where have you been stabbed, mate? Everywhere. His stomach.
But we've not turned him over because he's in a lot of pain.
Yeah, we've got a medic here.
Keep that pressure on there, mate.
He's definitely got stab wounds to his back.
I haven't even checked his stomach yet.
Did you hear her say that there was, she heard some loud bangs?
Yeah.
All right, mate, all right.
Yeah, some bullets on the floor, guys.
We're going to leave him in situ at the moment.
Yeah, I've got a witness here.
Uh, multiple people running from the address.
They've got into a Volvo.
218, if I can just come in on that.
There's a witness here who said that earlier on, he saw a silver
vehicle literally just where this has happened.
Squeeze it. Squeeze, squeeze.
See, he's bleeding from his right hand and the base of his back.
Vast pools of blood.
Three-inch laceration to the top of his head.
Ancl across the base of his back, 15-centimetre deep laceration.
Ancl I can see his spinal cord.
I've been to stabbings before in Luton.
They stab to the spine.
They stab to the legs.
They injure to maim, to paralyse you.
They don't do it to kill you.
They do it to paralyse you.
This gentleman wasn't stabbed.
He was hacked.
I think the intent was to kill him.
To kill? Yeah.
A man's been found with knife and gunshot injuries in Luton.
The victim was taken to hospital,
where he remains in a serious condition.
A silver car was seen driving away from the vicinity of the incident,
and detectives are keen to trace the vehicle.
The police believe the attack was targeted, and are appealing for
anyone with information about what happened to come forward.
He didn't want to cooperate.
I think mum's really worried about doing or saying anything
that her son's not going to be happy with.
Detectives have tried to find out from the victim's family
what lies behind the attack.
She's in a difficult situation because she came
across like she's a decent person, I don't believe
that she's involved in criminality. But they're worried
about the consequences, and it is tying our hands.
The level of violence used in the attack means the investigation
is led by Bedfordshire's Major Crime Unit.
Clearly these people have lain in wait for our victim
for him to return home,
and then they've attacked him on his driveway.
This was not a chance encounter.
It was absolutely premeditated.
I'll go through that briefing
so we're all up to speed, and what the job's about initially.
It's an attempt murder job from the early hours
of Thursday morning.
Malik is the victim.
Our victim's got a bit of form.
She's got drugs of fences, and I think he was, um,
potted for drug supply.
He's been out of prison quite recently.
His family said he turned his life around, but they are keeping shtoom
in terms of telling us who he's involved
or what this is all about.
So in terms of his injuries, he has been shot three times.
He's got numerous hack marks where he's been attacked
with either a knife or machete.
It's clearly a concerted effort to kill him, given the extent
of his injuries, and he's very lucky to be alive.
Cops turn up and they find Malik's on the floor outside.
There's a blood-soaked balaclava next to him, a pool of blood
and a bullet casing on the floor as well.
Forensics. Where are we at with all that?
The balaclava has gone off.
Results are clue urgently for gunshot residue recovery in the first
instance, then internally for saliva and wearer DNA.
This was a well-planned attack under the cover of darkness.
To expect the public to have a list of witnesses who can give us a blow
by blow account of what happened would be very unrealistic, really.
Forensics are incredibly important in any investigation,
but particularly in serious crimes such as this.
To get a result is really, really crucial.
Well, I think someone ran across the road there.
Look.
Detectives review dashcam footage handed in by a motorist who passed
the scene at the time of the attack.
Somebody there. Two.
Two. Somebody there.
There's another one there.
Is that one? Four. Yeah,
See that fourth one? Yeah, yeah.
We've got the rear view as well to have a look at.
That car on the side there might be the one that they get into.
Really difficult to see, though, isn't it?
But all it really does is tell you there's four people.
Two miles from the crime scene, police find a burnt-out car matching
the description of the Volvo seen driving away from the attack.
just going to see if any of the witnesses on the street
know who owns that car, or can point us in the right direction
to who has access to it.
Oh, here we go.
Hi, sorry. I'm from Bedfordshire Police.
It's just in regards to a vehicle that was burnt out last night.
Do you know anything about it? Sorry, no.
Hiya, sorry, nothing to worry about.
It's just in regards to a vehicle that was burnt out last night.
Anything about a silver Volvo at all on the street?
No. OK, no worries. Can I just take a name to say I spoke to you?
No. OK, that's fine.
We just want to know if anyone knows anyone of that vehicle.
I have told them I have no idea.
We need to know who the offenders were, really?
Well, if you can't get her to do it today, then tomorrow.
But, like, even just a first account today. No worries.
Are you coming back here, then, to write that up?
I'll see you in a bit, then. All right.
She's had second thoughts.
Doesn't want to give us a statement.
However, she's given us a bit of an account.
Hears a noise, looks out and sees people attacking somebody outside.
She can't really say much about them.
It was at a distance, at night.
Might be Asian. Proximity to it all as well.
She's probably had second thoughts. Yeah.
Probably realised that it's a bit more than just beating someone
up as well. Yeah, absolutely.
If she knows that there's gunshots, or...
I'm sure the local community,
everybody knows some version of events now.
Yeah, absolutely.
Quite a lot of information on there saying that the person
responsible is a chap by the name of a Samad.
He's a Bengali male.
What is this new live intelligence we've just had, then?
It's intelthat's coming in.
It's on the rolling log.
But he's been mentioned on more than one occasion.
OK, lovely. Thank you.
Boss just said he's looked at something and there's a marker
on Samad on PNC saying involved in a shooting/stabbing.
Ancl there was loads of stuff about Stephen Odell,
and he's a really nasty piece of work. Is he?
He was like a one-man wrecking crew.
Yeah, there's a PNC print for that O'Dellon here.
He's got, like, 70 pages.
Major crime intel?
Intelligence is not evidence,
it's an idea about who, for example, might be responsible.
It doesn't have to be a name from a member of the public.
It could be where the weapons are being stored,
it could be a whole host of different intelligence feeds
into the police, which we can look at and act upon
and then decide where the investigation then takes us.
Graham, do you want to talk about intel now?
Because it kinds of feeds into all of our bits and pieces.
We believe, so far - and this is still a work in progress -
it's graded 1CP, reliable, and that reads that four males
were involved in the stabbing and shooting of Malik.
We believe the offenders were a Bengali male called Samad Ali.
Stephen O'DelL
Ancl a third one, an Asian male we've got further work
ongoing with at the moment.
Finally. It's took till about six o'clock and we've start winning.
A little.
fight, happy days-
Can you just confirm for me,
please, that all your weapons have been drawn by the arms system.
ALL: Yes, sir.
Police execute a rolling series of arrests
on four suspects linked to a brutal attempted murder.
Firearms have only been authorised at the flat of Samad Ali.
They've been authorised there as opposed to the others
because there is specific intelligence around him
being involved in this incident from the other night.
THUMPING ON DOOR
Armed police!
Come to the door with nothing in your hands, do it now!
Open the door! Armed police!
Hello, hello! Show me your hands.
Right, come out.
One at a time, walk towards me, slowly.
Keep walking. Keep walking.
Anyone else at the address, show yourself at the door now!
Come to the door, show me your hands.
Show me your hands.
Don't move, do not move.
Walk towards me slowly, don't make any sudden movements.
Keep coming, keep coming.
Is anyone else in that flat?
What's your name?
OK, Samad, we just need to speak to you.
Let's get him out the way.
LIFT: Doors opening.
Do we hand these over to you guys for now?
Right, Samad, we need to take you under arrest
for suspicion of attempted murder. OK?
BOY: Oh, my God!
Attempted murder? Yeah.
The reason for your arrest is an investigation.
It's in relation to the attempted murder... This is bullshit.
..of Malik. I don't know who the fuck that is, innit. OK.
I don't know who the fuck that is, innit.
No, that's not going to happen, my friend. No, no, sorry.
Bruv, you just fucking hit me with attempted murder. What the fuck?
This is a joke.
No, it's not a joke.
Yeah. Yeah, we're good.
Ancl that's who we're looking for.
He's quite distinctive. Yeah, he is.
With Samad Ali under arrest,
police move on the addresses of the three other suspects.
Hello, I'm from the police, we've got warrant.
WOMAN, UPSET: He's not here at the moment.
Do you know where he is? He's gone out. OK.
You're all right, I'm a police officer. It's all good.
I'm just coming up to make sure there's no-one hiding up here.
Stephen's not here, no? WOMAN: No.
There's only us here, so we're going to have to do our search here.
If other people become available from other addresses...
Yeah.
OK, cheers, pal. Bye.
All right, it looks like we're the only one who got somebody.
Firearms, ammunition.
Mobile phones.
Any dark-coloured shoe with a white sole.
Balaclava or face coverings.
Volvo car key.
All right, we'll just use common sense.
If we find something we're not sure, we'll just make a decision.
PHONE RINGS
We've got the chap that we really wanted in custody.
Let's just say we've found some stuff here
that he'll have to answer for.
A“ fight? What's your 'first name? Samar! A“.
Samad? Yeah.
Ancl what's Samad doing here?
What's the reason for arrest?
So, he's been arrested for the attempted murder of Malik.
Hold on, stop there.
So, attempted murder, that's the reason why we're here. Mm-hm.
So, the allegation is that you've been linked by some intelligence
to the attempted murder of Malik.
By "intelligence"?
Yeah, so intelligence has linked you...
So, someone's said something, basically?
Quite possibly, but we don't know that,
and I certainly don't know that.
Can you take off your necklace and ring for us as well?
Do I need to take my jewellery off? Erm...
Let me have a look, what you got?
You have to take it off!
I thought you were going to show me
a little, wimpy chain like the one I've got.
The last time, I had my jewellery on me and that. It was all right.
Pop it on there, Samad, I'll look after it for you.
It won't be going anywhere.
I'll take your money as well.
So, they've clone the searches
at the address where Samad lives with his girlfriend.
Whilst there, they located a V5 vehicle registration document.
That document relates to the vehicle that was found in Crossway,
where it was burnt out.
Volvo, XC90.
Ancl there's our VIN number.
Everyone talks about the registration number -
the index number, as we call it -
but the VIN number is the important one.
The fact that she has it links him to that vehicle.
That vehicle's then subsequently found burnt out
a short while after our offence. Right, 0|<.
Certainly causes us grave concern
about the involvement in that vehicle and that offence. Yeah.
I can't imagine for one minute that he's going to want to talk to us.
No, it's not likely. But we will give him every opportunity.
You were arrested, Samad, last night,
on suspicion of the attempted murder of Malik.
You were cautioned, anything you do say may be given in evidence.
Do you understand?
You understand? No comment.
Samad, we're here to ask you,
were you involved in the attempted murder of Malik?
He went "no comment" to everything.
Even to the caution, he went no comment!
Of course he did it. Definitely.
Professional, 27-year experience here.
But it's all circumstantial at the minute.
The first camera you're looking at is on this side,
looking at the road here. Right.
There it is.
Police review the final pieces of CCTV from the night of the
attack, looking for any evidence to link Samad Ali to the crime.
Yeah, then somebody runs straight across the road.
Ancl then have we got Ali going into the flat? Yes, we do.
He just looks like he's coming home, doesn't he? Exactly.
He's not in any major hurry. No, no.
The best shot of him is definitely in the lift.
She seems quite calm, don't he? Yeah.
He doesn't look out of breath, as though he's just run from somewhere.
Then you see him using his phone.
You could almost pick up a pass code on that.
Do you know what, I was just thinking that!
We haven't got that phone?
We haven't, no. No.
Like I was just saying to you, Ollie, I anticipate that
he's going to be bailed out today,
because we haven't got anything, really.
Have he seized his clothes? Yes.
Have we got them? Where are they? They're all down there.
Mind if I have a look? Yeah, yeah.
Ancl also, he's got this jewellery.
Look it his big chain! It's a fucking big chain!
Does it have something on the end?
This is probably what you're thinking of, but it's not attached.
The victim apparently had a Tasmanian Devil.
Really? Yes.
Oh, my God.
How fucking dumb would he be if he's got the Tasmanian Devil on him?
Come on, mate.
Your solicitor's here to see you again.
The family said that he had a big, bulky, gold chain on. The victim.
Ancl it's missing.
Ancl it had - and they've called it a Tasmanian lizard.
Well, this chap in custody has got a big, bulky, gold chain on
with a Tasmanian Devil on the end.
No.
Yeah!
It'd be better to get the family to give us a statement first,
to say that is the right one, or a picture or whatever.
It'd be nice to go, look, that's the victim wearing it.
You don't know him? Look what you're wearing round your neck.
Have you seen this photo? Brilliant.
HE CHUCKLES
There he is, our victim, with said chain. Yes.
Oh, God, I feel good.
Hello, boss. Bit of an update.
Hydey's tying in with the family to see
if we can get them to describe it well enough so we can ID it.
Because that's going to be quite telling.
If we get a statement, we can say that we've obtained this photo,
we recognise it to be the victim and blah-di-blah.
I'm wondering whether we can go for remand.
Detectives from the major crime unit are waiting for the CPS to agree
that they have the evidence to charge Samad Ali
with attempted murder.
Hello, mate.
He was booked in last night with this huge, great big chain on and
in his pocket is this Taz pendant, which no-one had picked up on.
Lo and behold, they are the outstanding things from the victim.
Yeah, I recognise him.
Yeah, I don't think he's a stranger to Luton custody. No.
That way, please.
Why would someone take a chain from someone they've just tried to kill?
Within the criminal world, they want to assert themselves.
They want everyone else to know what pain they've inflicted
and what they're capable of doing.
Left.
They can't stay quiet, they have to brag about it.
Then the middle one, please, mate.
That's generally their downfall.
When you bring emotions into it,
your sense of clarity and thought go out the window.
Mr Ali, how are you?
CPS have come back to us literally just now
and they've recommended one charge.
Charge? Of attempted murder. OK?
Samad, if it was any other offence,
then we'd consider it, yes.
But you can imagine,
the offence you've been arrested for is attempted murder.
Hello, Sergeant Nassar at Luton police station.
I have Samad Ali with me.
All right, I'm transferring the call now.
Hello?
UK?
He is shitting it now, in't he?
The offence of...? Attempted murder.
Suspects will often, if they know they're wanted, hand themselves in.
What option have they got?
They either go on the run, which suggests a degree of guilt.
So it's often a good ploy.
Have you been arrested before?
Yeah. So you know the process then?
Oh, did they?
One o'clock, Stephen O'Dell is coming in.
Ancl Stu and Claire, I think, are down for him.
They'll do what they can to sanitise their involvement.
They'll have probably sorted out an alibi
and they'll present themselves all innocent.
Steve? Yeah. Hello, mate. How you doing, you all right?
Before we go through, you ain't got anything in your pockets?
Gear or anything like that? Oh, no. No?
You'd be surprised.
Hi, Steve. I'm Claire.
This is Claire, I'm Stuart. Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming down.
That's fine. Time now is 1 :10
and I'm arresting you on suspicion of the attempted murder of Malik,
which occurred in Luton at 1 :55 in the morning
on the 31st of the 10th this year. All right?
You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if
you do not mention when questioned something
you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.
That's fine. OK.
We're not stopping you from having any calls. Is it your missus? Yeah.
Right, 0|<.
All good, yeah?
With one suspect, Samad Ali, charged with attempted murder...
Yeah, if you can book him in, that'd be great, yeah. Thanks.
...detectives interview the three other suspects
in connection with the crime.
OK, this interview is being video recorded in an interview room
at Luton police station.
What generally happens is people won't speak to us
because they want to see what evidence we have got against them.
Can you tell me what your full name is, please?
BLEEP OK.
We always expect people to no comment, generally speaking,
and that's our starting point.
Have you had enough time to consult with your solicitor? Yep, OK.
Are you guys ready to crack on?
They are advised to no comment because they don't have to
prove their innocence, we have to prove their guilt.
The purpose of this interview, Stephen, is to allow you the
opportunity to give your side of the story and to establish the facts.
You do not have to say anything.
However, Stuart and I are still going to ask you questions.
You've been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder of Malik.
First of all, I'm going to ask you, do you actually know him?
No comment.
Tell me what you know about that incident.
No comment.
Have you heard of him? No comment.
Is he a friend of yours
or is he someone that's like an adversary to you?
Is he what you would call an enemy? No comment.
So, the man that was stabbed ancl shot is a man called Malik.
Do you know anyone by the name of Malik?
Malik rings a bell, but...
...that's about it.
I know a few Maliks.
Have you ever had any issues with any of the Maliks?
No, I ain't had issues... for a while, to be fair.
OK.
So, this is early hours in the morning that this has happened.
Let's talk about, maybe the Wednesday might help.
So, from the late afternoon through to the early hours
of Thursday morning.
Ancl what I would like to know is what you can tell me about it.
So, from about 6:00 onwards, we had a Halloween party
at my ex-missus' house.
Family were there.
They left around 12 midnight.
And then, that was it, I was off to bed with my ex-partner.
After the party finished, did you ring anyone?
Uh, I ain't got... Speak to anyone? I haven't got a phone.
You haven't got a phone? No, I haven't got a phone, no.
Right.
Why don't you have a phone?
I was robbed about a month ago.
Have you reported that to the police? No.
So, if I mention the name, Stephen Michael O'Dell,
does that ring a bell at all? No comment.
Is he a friend of yours? No comment.
Did he play any part in this attack? No comment.
Other persons that we are interested in...
BLEEP.
Do you know who he is? Yeah, I know who he is.
You know who he is. Yeah. How do you know him?
Um, same high school.
When did you last see him?
Last see him...
Oh, it'd have been a mate's wedding.
Do you know if he's involved in the attempt murder of Malik?
I would like to think not.
OK.
The other man we're interested in is a man called... BLEEP.
Yeah. Do you know him? Yes, I know him.
How do you know him? Oh, he's been a mate for...
...I'd say close to ten years.
I'm going to ask you about Samad Ali and Stephen O'DelL
Do you know any of those guys? No comment.
Do you know anyone by the name of Samad Ali?
No.
You sure? 100%.
Would you be linked to the attack in any way?
No comment.
Forensically, DNA.
No comment. Blood.
No comment.
Do you have any reason to believe that anything linked to you
would have been left at the scene? No comment.
So, are you aware of DNA, fingerprint, ancl things like that?
Yeah.
So, would we find any of your DNA at the scene?
No. Nothing, whatsoever. OK.
Did you drop anything? No.
You sure? Yes.
Anything you want to say about that? No. OK.
So, we have found your DNA at the scene.
Impossible.
So, this is exhibit FMM9.
This is where Malik was found fighting for his life.
OK.
Ancl this balaclava has been found.
Ancl your DNA is on that balaclava, Steve.
Impossible.
How? Impossible. It's...
I only own one balaclava, and that's my motorbike balaclava.
That one is 100% not my balaclava.
That's got your wearer DNA inside,
and that has got Malik's blood on the outside.
Definitely not... That's not my balaclava.
I don't give a shit what you lot see.
You cannot say that's my balaclava.
1 million percent.
Well, why is your DNA there, then? That's...
My DNA is not in that. It is, mate. It is.
It's not. It's not.
Stephen, honestly, you can't just sit here and say,
"That's not my balaclava. That's not my DNA." I don't...
You need to tell me how your DNA got in that.
Listen...
SOLICITOR: At this stage, do you want to have a quick chat with me?
Yes, 100%, please.
OK, that's fine.
So, we'll end the interview, then, at 1525.
WHISPERING: He didn't like that, did he? Yeah.
Cos how he reacted was, like...
Do you believe him?
It wouldn't surprise me if someone's reined it in.
No. Do you not reckon?
No. I don't...
He's lying about the party.
Yeah.
I was so shocked he started talking.
PHONE RINGS
Hello, Claire.
Hi, I've just come out of interview, they wanted a break.
What, after you dropped the bombshell? Yeah.
He literally just lost it.
Like, he completely changed his behaviour.
"That is not my balaclava.
"That is not my DNA.
"The only balaclava I own is my motorcycle balaclava."
Has he worn anyone else's?
I didn't get as far as that, Mike.
Cover all that off, cos, obviously... Yeah, of course.
...he's going to come up with some sort of story as to...
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, cheers. Bye. Bye.
He's lying about it all. Yeah, you can tell.
He's really nervous, isn't he? But he....
He thought he was going to come in here and give us that story,
and we were going to have nothing to debunk it.
That DNA was just boom, wasn't it? Yeah, he's a liar, though.
Yeah, he got a phone.
No-one would text someone like this, with those injuries, for no reason.
Please enlighten me in relation to why this has happened.
No comment.
Is it over drugs?
No comment.
Is it over money? No comment.
Or has he just really pissed someone off?
No comment.
Is this down to Malik assaulting BLEEP in prison? No comment.
Is that what this is all about? No comment.
Cos if it is, do you want to tell us anything about that?
No comment.
There we are. Bullet and balaclava results.
It is estimated that DNA profile is at least one billion times
more likely to be his than to be another unknown person.
Yeah, that's it, mate.
He's stuffed.
Do you want to write your notes up?
just thinking about the next interview, though.
What possible defences?
Mm.
We always say, if they talk, they probably didn't do it.
Yeah.
He's going to say no comment now, isn't he?
That's good.
OK, so, we are talking about this balaclava.
Inside we have found your DNA.
So, who else... It has to be someone else's DNA on that.
Unless someone's got your DNA... that matches your DNA.
Unless I've got a twin. Have you got a twin, identical twin?
I know... But I know that.
I'm not trying to get, like, rude or nothing.
I'm just trying... No, no, I understand.
I was not at that scene.
That balaclava has to have someone else's DNA on that.
I did not have that balaclava on.
And just... it just...
'n.
Who had that balaclava on?
This is what I'm trying to say, right? If...
It was not me.
Hands down, it was not me.
If that was me, right...
I'm there attacking someone, why would I take my balaclava off?
But in the melee...
We don't know what Malik was doing, cos we're yet to speak with him.
Yeah, I do know that, but...
But he might have been fighting with his attackers
and it might have come off in the struggle. Yeah, I understand that.
So, what I'm saying is...
I know if I go to a fucking shooting,
a stabbing, or whatever else that's happened,
and I leave something like that...
...I'm fucked.
So, let's go backwards.
When was the last time you wore a black balaclava
that wasn't for motorbike racing?
We're talking about an attempted murder here. Of course.
So, if you're talking about, you've worn it for any
other criminality, or anything like that.
OK, now's not the time to be coy about it, because...
...given a slightly different version of events,
your DNA could be at a murder scene.
Without trying to think that I'm not taking it serious...
You need to tell us how your DNA got in there.
Who had that balaclava? Who wore it at the scene?
Who dropped it? I don't know.
Have you committed a crime wearing a balaclava
with any of the people that we suggest are involved?
I don't know the other people that you're saying.
I haven't committed a crime.
But you're mates. Well, you know two out of three of them.
With them two, no. With them, no? 100%, no.
Right.
The Sam...
Samad Ali, that's the other chap.
Samad Ali.
He could be... I don't know. What do you mean, he could be?
He could be like a friend of a friend.
Like, he could have been around me. I don't know.
But this is not mine. I do not own this balaclava.
Has anyone got any issues with you?
No, I have no issues with anyone.
Are you under any duress? No.
I'm not a fucking angel.
I've been... You know my records.
I've been fucking an idiot back in the past, whatever else.
And I've done shit.
I don't live that lifestyle no more.
I have kids I look after.
This is not my balaclava.
Stephen...
OK, it might not be your balaclava.
Can I...? But it's your DNA. Can I have a word with him, please?
That's fine, OK.
We'll just pause the interview one minute.
OK, let's go to another room.
We'll leave the tapes running, so don't say anything. Come out.
Yeah, there is. Have you got one?
Yeah. If you go in that one.
All right, no worries.
He can't just say, "|t's not mine." No.
Cos he's holding something back. Yeah.
It's a one in one billion chance it being a twin, and he knows that.
But he needs to talk to us.
You OK? Yeah.
You good? Yeah.
Can I just remind you, Steve,
the interview's still under police caution.
So, we were just talking about the statistics
and your DNA being on this balaclava.
You lot are the professionals,
and you lot will get to the bottom of who had that balaclava on.
I know that for a fact.
Do you know who had it on?
No. This is the thing, I do not know who had it on.
If you knew who had it on, would you tell me?
Listen, let me tell you something, right?
It's not about being a grass, or whatever else.
I don't give a shit... It's about protecting them kids.
It's my family, right? My kids.
This is a life sentence. Mm-hm.
Do you not understand that? Yeah.
I am not risking my life for my kids.
My kids are my everything.
So, if you knew who'd clone this, you would tell us?
Yes.
If I knew, then... I don't know.
I would have to, if I knew.
Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah.
So, when would you have worn a balaclava like that?
I ride my motorbike on the road. It's not...
When you shouldn't be. Yeah.
OK. All right, fine. Well, we're not here to talk about that.
Traffic of fences, attempted murder.
Yeah. Let's...
Yeah, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying.
All right?
So, it's possible you have worn a balaclava like that?
Yes.
All the time to avoid the police.
I have a lot of people that I go with.
Have you given one of your old balaclavas...?
Them ones are long gone. Where? Where did they go?
Long gone where? I don't know.
Like, urn, there's been times before when I've had it
in my man bag with my gloves.
Um, someone else has wanted to borrow it.
I've had them in my pockets.
You know, I've had them, and I've... They've gone.
So, when was the last time you lent one to someone?
I don't know.
And who did you lend it to?
Urn...
Cos this is probably the most important question you've been asked
in this interview.
Ancl your solicitor will tell you this. No, no, no...
If that is a balaclava that you've worn and you have lent to someone,
and then it's turned up at an attempted murder scene...
I don't want to say the name, then you go nick him for this...
...massive thing.
Who'd you give it to?
Mate, you need to tell us who you gave it to.
Cos you're sitting here... No, I know. ..arrested for attempt murder.
You might be charged.
I know this, I know this.
So, the guy who may have been wearing this is walking free.
Come on, Steve, do the right thing. I don't...
You're not a grass.
You've got your kids to think about.
Describe him to us.
White? Black? Asian?
Oh, no, he's...
I think he's Pakistani. OK.
Age?
OK.
Yeah, I don't know...
Slim, big?
Slim, um...
Not slim.
just think of him. Picture him and describe him to us.
Can't remember if he's got facial hair or not.
Urn...
And where's he from?
Don't know.
ls there anything else you can tell us about him?
That's... I literally... That's all| know.
I don't know his name.
OK.
All right, anything else?
OK.
All right, then.
That's not mine. OK.
Thank you for talking to us, Steve. We'll end the interview now.
Hello.
He was adamant, mate.
OK.
There was a lot of things in there that you kind of thought,
"You're lying," but I couldn't pinpoint what he was lying about.
Yeah.
There's something he's not telling us.
But we go on the evidence.
Ancl I don't think the reason he's given us for his DNA being on
that balaclava at the scene is enough.
Likelihood is, don't think that's going to be enough to...
...negate what he's saying.
Whether he was lying cos he knows what's happened,
whether he's lying cos he was there and someone else had the balaclava.
And only right at the end did he say, "Oh, I did have a balaclava
"like that, but I lent it to a bloke."
Well...
If that's what he says...
He's involved in this somehow.
Enough to get his hands dirty.
Right, OK.
It's now come out that he might have lent some bloke a balaclava.
He's tried to say, "|f I was going to do it, I wouldn't be
"stupid enough to leave my balaclava there."
Well, he didn't do it on purpose, did he?
So, he's basically saying... I know. People say that all the time.
Because he's a good criminal,
he's basically saying that he wouldn't get caught out.
But how many times do you come out of interviews sometimes
ancl think people are really, really genuine, then you think, oh, yeah?
Yeah, exactly.
But bearing in mind the swabs are from the mouth and the nose,
and if somebody else has had that on...
There's no other profile.
Yeah, we've got no other profile in there.
Without enough evidence to link two of the suspects
to the attempted murder, police have no choice
but to release them on bail.
So, lighter, coat, belt, 100 quid in cash.
Sound right?
So, the bail conditions you've got is not to contact directly,
indirectly Stephen Michael O'Dell and Samad Ali.
Right, then.
Yeah, from O'Dell's data point of view,
coming up to the incident, really, it's being used.
Detectives have managed to link Stephen O'Dell to a phone registered
to his former girlfriend's mother.
By 2:57, he's in the area where the car is then later torched.
Ancl then he stops using his phone.
What it does, it destroys his alibi, because he and his girlfriend
are saying that they were having a party, and he was there all night.
His phone clearly does move away.
He's not at that party.
O'Dell says that he doesn't know Ali, but clearly he does know Ali,
because less than 15 minutes after the incident -
the incident's at 1 :55 - at 2:1 1, Ali is calling O'Dell
and calls him for 35 seconds.
That call, in itself, shows that they are associates.
So, O'Dell does know Ali. Yeah.
The victim's come back in a taxi, and they've been waiting for him.
Yes, that's correct.
There is obviously no other DNA on the balaclava apart from his.
I guess he thought that if he came out with a plausible account
at the start of it, then perhaps we would believe him.
But there'll be something somewhere which they absolutely will not have
thought about, or made allowances for.
What's the saying? They've got to be lucky all the time.
We've only got to be lucky once.
All right, that's brilliant. Thanks ever so much.
All right, then. Thanks for your time. Thank you. Bye-bye.
Mr O'Dell is going to be charged.
Oh, good.
Looking for remand, as well?
I'd have thought so.
He's a wrong fun.
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