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This program me contains strong language and
graphic scenes of injury some may find distressing
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It's either a trophy
or it's bravado.
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It's egotistical.
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It's a sense of, "Look,
I've managed to take this from you,
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your prized possession, and now
I'm wearing it around my neck."
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Would you do me a quick favour and
just look at Lucy's notes
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to see if there was any blood
on this?
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They set out with an idea to go
and seek some retaliation
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or retribution or threaten somebody,
ancl then it escalates.
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A positive reaction from
the chemicals that indicate
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the presence of blood.
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A bit of an update, boss.
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Yep.
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The family said the victim
had a big, bulky gold chain on,
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and it's missing.
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And it had the Tasmanian
devil on the end.
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It's crucial that we find the truth.
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Police! Hands behind your back.
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You've got to question everything.
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Believe nobody.
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It's almost a game of chess,
try and get them to slip up.
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This is your opportunity
to talk to me.
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Police emergency?
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Right. We're sending officers now,
OK? How badly hurt is he?
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Where have you been stabbed, mate?
Everywhere. His stomach.
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But we've not turned him over
because he's in a lot of pain.
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Yeah, we've got a medic here.
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Keep that pressure on there, mate.
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He's definitely got
stab wounds to his back.
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I haven't even
checked his stomach yet.
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Did you hear her say that there
was, she heard some loud bangs?
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Yeah.
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All right, mate, all right.
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Yeah, some bullets
on the floor, guys.
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We're going to leave him
in situ at the moment.
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Yeah, I've got a witness here.
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Uh, multiple people running
from the address.
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They've got into a Volvo.
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218, if I can just come in on that.
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There's a witness here who said
that earlier on, he saw a silver
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vehicle literally
just where this has happened.
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Squeeze it. Squeeze, squeeze.
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See, he's bleeding from his
right hand and the base of his back.
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Vast pools of blood.
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Three-inch laceration
to the top of his head.
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Ancl across the base of his back,
15-centimetre deep laceration.
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Ancl I can see his spinal cord.
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I've been to stabbings before
in Luton.
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They stab to the spine.
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They stab to the legs.
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They injure to maim,
to paralyse you.
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They don't do it to kill you.
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They do it to paralyse you.
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This gentleman wasn't stabbed.
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He was hacked.
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I think the intent was to kill him.
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To kill? Yeah.
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A man's been found with knife
and gunshot injuries in Luton.
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The victim was taken to hospital,
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where he remains
in a serious condition.
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A silver car was seen driving away
from the vicinity of the incident,
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and detectives are keen
to trace the vehicle.
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The police believe the attack
was targeted, and are appealing for
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anyone with information about
what happened to come forward.
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He didn't want to cooperate.
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I think mum's really worried
about doing or saying anything
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that her son's
not going to be happy with.
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Detectives have tried to find out
from the victim's family
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what lies behind the attack.
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She's in a difficult situation
because she came
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across like she's a decent
person, I don't believe
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that she's involved in criminality.
But they're worried
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about the consequences,
and it is tying our hands.
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The level of violence used in
the attack means the investigation
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is led by Bedfordshire's
Major Crime Unit.
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Clearly these people have lain
in wait for our victim
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for him to return home,
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and then they've attacked him
on his driveway.
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This was not a chance encounter.
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It was absolutely premeditated.
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I'll go through that briefing
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so we're all up to speed,
and what the job's about initially.
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It's an attempt murder job
from the early hours
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of Thursday morning.
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Malik is the victim.
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Our victim's got a bit of form.
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She's got drugs of fences,
and I think he was, um,
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potted for drug supply.
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He's been out of prison
quite recently.
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His family said he turned his life
around, but they are keeping shtoom
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in terms of telling us
who he's involved
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or what this is all about.
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So in terms of his injuries,
he has been shot three times.
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He's got numerous hack marks
where he's been attacked
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with either a knife or machete.
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It's clearly a concerted effort
to kill him, given the extent
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of his injuries,
and he's very lucky to be alive.
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Cops turn up and they find
Malik's on the floor outside.
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There's a blood-soaked balaclava
next to him, a pool of blood
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and a bullet casing
on the floor as well.
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Forensics.
Where are we at with all that?
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The balaclava has gone off.
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Results are clue urgently for gunshot
residue recovery in the first
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instance, then internally
for saliva and wearer DNA.
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This was a well-planned attack
under the cover of darkness.
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To expect the public to have a list
of witnesses who can give us a blow
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by blow account of what happened
would be very unrealistic, really.
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Forensics are incredibly important
in any investigation,
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but particularly in serious crimes
such as this.
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To get a result
is really, really crucial.
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Well, I think someone
ran across the road there.
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Look.
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Detectives review dashcam footage
handed in by a motorist who passed
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the scene at the time of the attack.
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Somebody there. Two.
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Two. Somebody there.
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There's another one there.
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Is that one? Four. Yeah,
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See that fourth one? Yeah, yeah.
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We've got the rear view as well
to have a look at.
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That car on the side there
might be the one that they get into.
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Really difficult to see,
though, isn't it?
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But all it really does
is tell you there's four people.
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Two miles from the crime scene,
police find a burnt-out car matching
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the description of the Volvo
seen driving away from the attack.
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just going to see if any of
the witnesses on the street
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know who owns that car, or can
point us in the right direction
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to who has access to it.
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Oh, here we go.
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Hi, sorry. I'm from
Bedfordshire Police.
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It's just in regards to a vehicle
that was burnt out last night.
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Do you know anything about it?
Sorry, no.
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Hiya, sorry, nothing to worry about.
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It's just in regards to a vehicle
that was burnt out last night.
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Anything about a silver Volvo
at all on the street?
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No. OK, no worries. Can I just
take a name to say I spoke to you?
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No. OK, that's fine.
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We just want to know if anyone
knows anyone of that vehicle.
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I have told them I have no idea.
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We need to know
who the offenders were, really?
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Well, if you can't get her
to do it today, then tomorrow.
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But, like, even just a first
account today. No worries.
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Are you coming back here,
then, to write that up?
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I'll see you in a bit, then.
All right.
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She's had second thoughts.
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Doesn't want to give us a statement.
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However, she's given us
a bit of an account.
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Hears a noise, looks out and sees
people attacking somebody outside.
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She can't really
say much about them.
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It was at a distance, at night.
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Might be Asian.
Proximity to it all as well.
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She's probably had
second thoughts. Yeah.
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Probably realised that it's a bit
more than just beating someone
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up as well. Yeah, absolutely.
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If she knows that
there's gunshots, or...
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I'm sure the local community,
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everybody knows
some version of events now.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Quite a lot of information
on there saying that the person
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responsible is a chap
by the name of a Samad.
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He's a Bengali male.
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What is this new live intelligence
we've just had, then?
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It's intelthat's coming in.
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It's on the rolling log.
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But he's been mentioned
on more than one occasion.
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OK, lovely. Thank you.
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Boss just said he's looked at
something and there's a marker
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on Samad on PNC saying
involved in a shooting/stabbing.
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Ancl there was loads of stuff
about Stephen Odell,
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and he's a really nasty
piece of work. Is he?
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He was like a one-man wrecking crew.
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Yeah, there's a PNC print for that
O'Dellon here.
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He's got, like, 70 pages.
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Major crime intel?
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Intelligence is not evidence,
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it's an idea about who, for example,
might be responsible.
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It doesn't have to be a name from a
member of the public.
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It could be where the
weapons are being stored,
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it could be a whole host of
different intelligence feeds
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into the police, which we can look
at and act upon
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and then decide where
the investigation then takes us.
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Graham, do you want to talk
about intel now?
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Because it kinds of feeds into all
of our bits and pieces.
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We believe, so far - and this is
still a work in progress -
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it's graded 1CP, reliable,
and that reads that four males
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were involved in the stabbing and
shooting of Malik.
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We believe the offenders were
a Bengali male called Samad Ali.
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Stephen O'DelL
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Ancl a third one, an Asian male
we've got further work
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ongoing with at the moment.
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Finally. It's took till about six
o'clock and we've start winning.
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A little.
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fight, happy days-
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Can you just confirm for me,
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please, that all your weapons have
been drawn by the arms system.
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ALL: Yes, sir.
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Police execute a rolling series
of arrests
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on four suspects linked to a brutal
attempted murder.
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Firearms have only been authorised
at the flat of Samad Ali.
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They've been authorised
there as opposed to the others
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because there is specific
intelligence around him
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being involved in this incident from
the other night.
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THUMPING ON DOOR
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Armed police!
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Come to the door with
nothing in your hands, do it now!
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Open the door! Armed police!
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Hello, hello! Show me your hands.
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Right, come out.
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One at a time,
walk towards me, slowly.
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Keep walking. Keep walking.
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Anyone else at the address,
show yourself at the door now!
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00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,695
Come to the door,
show me your hands.
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00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,375
Show me your hands.
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00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,935
Don't move, do not move.
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00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,175
Walk towards me slowly,
don't make any sudden movements.
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Keep coming, keep coming.
217
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,215
Is anyone else in that flat?
218
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What's your name?
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OK, Samad, we just need
to speak to you.
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Let's get him out the way.
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LIFT: Doors opening.
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Do we hand these over to you guys
for now?
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Right, Samad, we need to take
you under arrest
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for suspicion of attempted murder.
OK?
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BOY: Oh, my God!
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Attempted murder? Yeah.
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The reason for your arrest is
an investigation.
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It's in relation to the attempted
murder... This is bullshit.
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00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,255
..of Malik. I don't know who the
fuck that is, innit. OK.
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I don't know who the fuck that is,
innit.
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00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,455
No, that's not going to happen,
my friend. No, no, sorry.
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Bruv, you just fucking hit me with
attempted murder. What the fuck?
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This is a joke.
234
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,015
No, it's not a joke.
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Yeah. Yeah, we're good.
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Ancl that's who we're looking for.
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He's quite distinctive. Yeah, he is.
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With Samad Ali under arrest,
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police move on the addresses of
the three other suspects.
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Hello, I'm from the police,
we've got warrant.
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WOMAN, UPSET: He's not here
at the moment.
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Do you know where he is?
He's gone out. OK.
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00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,415
You're all right,
I'm a police officer. It's all good.
244
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,175
I'm just coming up to make
sure there's no-one hiding up here.
245
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,015
Stephen's not here, no?
WOMAN: No.
246
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:59,215
There's only us here, so we're
going to have to do our search here.
247
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,535
If other people become available
from other addresses...
248
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:03,735
Yeah.
249
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,375
OK, cheers, pal. Bye.
250
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,375
All right, it looks like
we're the only one who got somebody.
251
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,615
Firearms, ammunition.
252
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,295
Mobile phones.
253
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,615
Any dark-coloured shoe with
a white sole.
254
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,335
Balaclava or face coverings.
255
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,535
Volvo car key.
256
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,775
All right,
we'll just use common sense.
257
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,975
If we find something we're not
sure, we'll just make a decision.
258
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,335
PHONE RINGS
259
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,295
We've got the chap that we really
wanted in custody.
260
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:46,975
Let's just say we've found some
stuff here
261
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,775
that he'll have to answer for.
262
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,975
A“ fight? What's your 'first name?
Samar! A“.
263
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,655
Samad? Yeah.
264
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,935
Ancl what's Samad doing here?
265
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,015
What's the reason for arrest?
266
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,775
So, he's been arrested
for the attempted murder of Malik.
267
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:25,935
Hold on, stop there.
268
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,575
So, attempted murder, that's
the reason why we're here. Mm-hm.
269
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,935
So, the allegation is that you've
been linked by some intelligence
270
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,215
to the attempted murder of Malik.
271
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,055
By "intelligence"?
272
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,895
Yeah, so intelligence has
linked you...
273
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,855
So, someone's said something,
basically?
274
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,615
Quite possibly,
but we don't know that,
275
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,215
and I certainly don't know that.
276
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,895
Can you take off your necklace
and ring for us as well?
277
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,455
Do I need to take my jewellery off?
Erm...
278
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,255
Let me have a look, what you got?
279
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,055
You have to take it off!
280
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,295
I thought you were going to show me
281
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,215
a little, wimpy chain like the one
I've got.
282
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,495
The last time, I had my jewellery
on me and that. It was all right.
283
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,935
Pop it on there, Samad,
I'll look after it for you.
284
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,295
It won't be going anywhere.
285
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,455
I'll take your money as well.
286
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,015
So, they've clone the searches
287
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,015
at the address where Samad lives
with his girlfriend.
288
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,415
Whilst there, they located
a V5 vehicle registration document.
289
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,135
That document relates to the vehicle
that was found in Crossway,
290
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:55,855
where it was burnt out.
291
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,495
Volvo, XC90.
292
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,015
Ancl there's our VIN number.
293
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,695
Everyone talks about the
registration number -
294
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,255
the index number, as we call it -
295
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,215
but the VIN number is
the important one.
296
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:12,175
The fact that she has it links him
to that vehicle.
297
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,175
That vehicle's then subsequently
found burnt out
298
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,135
a short while after our offence.
Right, 0|<.
299
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,135
Certainly causes us grave concern
300
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,175
about the involvement in that
vehicle and that offence. Yeah.
301
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,295
I can't imagine for one minute that
he's going to want to talk to us.
302
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,655
No, it's not likely. But we will
give him every opportunity.
303
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,855
You were arrested, Samad,
last night,
304
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,895
on suspicion of the attempted
murder of Malik.
305
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,935
You were cautioned, anything you do
say may be given in evidence.
306
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:47,455
Do you understand?
307
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:50,615
You understand? No comment.
308
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,655
Samad, we're here to ask you,
309
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,975
were you involved in the attempted
murder of Malik?
310
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,615
He went "no comment" to everything.
311
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,455
Even to the caution,
he went no comment!
312
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,575
Of course he did it. Definitely.
313
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,855
Professional,
27-year experience here.
314
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,295
But it's all circumstantial
at the minute.
315
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,295
The first camera you're
looking at is on this side,
316
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,055
looking at the road here. Right.
317
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,335
There it is.
318
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:33,175
Police review the final
pieces of CCTV from the night of the
319
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,935
attack, looking for any evidence to
link Samad Ali to the crime.
320
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,775
Yeah, then somebody runs straight
across the road.
321
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,095
Ancl then have we got Ali
going into the flat? Yes, we do.
322
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,575
He just looks like he's coming home,
doesn't he? Exactly.
323
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:52,935
He's not in any major hurry. No, no.
324
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,215
The best shot of him
is definitely in the lift.
325
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,255
She seems quite calm, don't he?
Yeah.
326
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,695
He doesn't look out of breath, as
though he's just run from somewhere.
327
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,255
Then you see him using his phone.
328
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,815
You could almost pick up
a pass code on that.
329
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,695
Do you know what,
I was just thinking that!
330
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,455
We haven't got that phone?
331
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:20,975
We haven't, no. No.
332
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,615
Like I was just saying to you,
Ollie, I anticipate that
333
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,055
he's going to be bailed out today,
334
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,335
because we haven't got anything,
really.
335
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,535
Have he seized his clothes? Yes.
336
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,855
Have we got them? Where are they?
They're all down there.
337
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,415
Mind if I have a look? Yeah, yeah.
338
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,015
Ancl also, he's got this jewellery.
339
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,375
Look it his big chain!
It's a fucking big chain!
340
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:48,655
Does it have something on the end?
341
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,615
This is probably what you're
thinking of, but it's not attached.
342
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,055
The victim apparently had a
Tasmanian Devil.
343
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,415
Really? Yes.
344
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:00,855
Oh, my God.
345
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,335
How fucking dumb would he be if he's
got the Tasmanian Devil on him?
346
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:06,975
Come on, mate.
347
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,895
Your solicitor's
here to see you again.
348
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,055
The family said that he had a big,
bulky, gold chain on. The victim.
349
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,295
Ancl it's missing.
350
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,015
Ancl it had - and they've called
it a Tasmanian lizard.
351
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,855
Well, this chap in custody has
got a big, bulky, gold chain on
352
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,815
with a Tasmanian Devil on the end.
353
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:28,415
No.
354
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:30,975
Yeah!
355
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,415
It'd be better to get the family
to give us a statement first,
356
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,575
to say that is the right one,
or a picture or whatever.
357
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,935
It'd be nice to go, look,
that's the victim wearing it.
358
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,015
You don't know him? Look what you're
wearing round your neck.
359
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,535
Have you seen this photo? Brilliant.
360
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:51,895
HE CHUCKLES
361
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,615
There he is, our victim,
with said chain. Yes.
362
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,215
Oh, God, I feel good.
363
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,735
Hello, boss. Bit of an update.
364
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,135
Hydey's tying in
with the family to see
365
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:08,295
if we can get them to describe it
well enough so we can ID it.
366
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,575
Because that's going to be
quite telling.
367
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,255
If we get a statement, we can say
that we've obtained this photo,
368
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,575
we recognise it to be the victim
and blah-di-blah.
369
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,495
I'm wondering
whether we can go for remand.
370
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,655
Detectives from the major crime unit
are waiting for the CPS to agree
371
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,575
that they have the evidence to
charge Samad Ali
372
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,135
with attempted murder.
373
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,815
Hello, mate.
374
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,575
He was booked in last night with
this huge, great big chain on and
375
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,975
in his pocket is this Taz pendant,
which no-one had picked up on.
376
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,335
Lo and behold, they are the
outstanding things from the victim.
377
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:47,455
Yeah, I recognise him.
378
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,695
Yeah, I don't think he's a stranger
to Luton custody. No.
379
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,375
That way, please.
380
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,575
Why would someone take a chain from
someone they've just tried to kill?
381
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,095
Within the criminal world,
they want to assert themselves.
382
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:04,135
They want everyone else to know what
pain they've inflicted
383
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:05,615
and what they're capable of doing.
384
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:06,615
Left.
385
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,215
They can't stay quiet,
they have to brag about it.
386
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,975
Then the middle one, please, mate.
387
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,695
That's generally their downfall.
388
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,095
When you bring emotions into it,
389
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:20,455
your sense of clarity
and thought go out the window.
390
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,455
Mr Ali, how are you?
391
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,535
CPS have come back to us
literally just now
392
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,855
and they've recommended one charge.
393
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,535
Charge? Of attempted murder. OK?
394
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,095
Samad, if it was any other offence,
395
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,015
then we'd consider it, yes.
396
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,895
But you can imagine,
397
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,775
the offence you've been
arrested for is attempted murder.
398
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,215
Hello, Sergeant Nassar
at Luton police station.
399
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,535
I have Samad Ali with me.
400
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,935
All right,
I'm transferring the call now.
401
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:03,935
Hello?
402
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:32,735
UK?
403
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:40,815
He is shitting it now, in't he?
404
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,175
The offence of...? Attempted murder.
405
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,255
Suspects will often, if they know
they're wanted, hand themselves in.
406
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,055
What option have they got?
407
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,975
They either go on the run,
which suggests a degree of guilt.
408
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,495
So it's often a good ploy.
409
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,015
Have you been arrested before?
410
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,495
Yeah. So you know the process then?
411
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:35,335
Oh, did they?
412
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,135
One o'clock,
Stephen O'Dell is coming in.
413
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,375
Ancl Stu and Claire, I think,
are down for him.
414
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,535
They'll do what they can
to sanitise their involvement.
415
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,095
They'll have probably
sorted out an alibi
416
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:54,815
and they'll present themselves
all innocent.
417
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,455
Steve? Yeah. Hello, mate.
How you doing, you all right?
418
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,495
Before we go through, you ain't
got anything in your pockets?
419
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,495
Gear or anything like that?
Oh, no. No?
420
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:07,735
You'd be surprised.
421
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,455
Hi, Steve. I'm Claire.
422
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,015
This is Claire, I'm Stuart. Nice to
meet you. Thanks for coming down.
423
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,095
That's fine. Time now is 1 :10
424
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:18,535
and I'm arresting you on suspicion
of the attempted murder of Malik,
425
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,935
which occurred in Luton at 1 :55
in the morning
426
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,575
on the 31st of the 10th this year.
All right?
427
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,175
You do not have to say anything
but it may harm your defence if
428
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,975
you do not mention when
questioned something
429
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,735
you later rely on in court. Anything
you do say may be given in evidence.
430
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,215
That's fine. OK.
431
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,695
We're not stopping you from having
any calls. Is it your missus? Yeah.
432
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:50,695
Right, 0|<.
433
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:06,935
All good, yeah?
434
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,815
With one suspect, Samad Ali,
charged with attempted murder...
435
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,895
Yeah, if you can book him in,
that'd be great, yeah. Thanks.
436
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,415
...detectives interview the three
other suspects
437
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,655
in connection with the crime.
438
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,855
OK, this interview is being
video recorded in an interview room
439
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,695
at Luton police station.
440
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,215
What generally happens is people
won't speak to us
441
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,535
because they want to see what
evidence we have got against them.
442
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,935
Can you tell me
what your full name is, please?
443
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,775
BLEEP
OK.
444
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,815
We always expect people to
no comment, generally speaking,
445
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,455
and that's our starting point.
446
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,535
Have you had enough time to consult
with your solicitor? Yep, OK.
447
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:49,735
Are you guys ready to crack on?
448
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,295
They are advised to no comment
because they don't have to
449
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,695
prove their innocence,
we have to prove their guilt.
450
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,375
The purpose of this interview,
Stephen, is to allow you the
451
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,415
opportunity to give your side of the
story and to establish the facts.
452
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:03,775
You do not have to say anything.
453
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,655
However, Stuart and I are still
going to ask you questions.
454
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,255
You've been arrested on suspicion
of attempted murder of Malik.
455
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,095
First of all, I'm going to ask you,
do you actually know him?
456
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:17,775
No comment.
457
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,455
Tell me what you know about
that incident.
458
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,215
No comment.
459
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,455
Have you heard of him? No comment.
460
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,575
Is he a friend of yours
461
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,935
or is he someone
that's like an adversary to you?
462
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,615
Is he what you would call an enemy?
No comment.
463
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,015
So, the man that was stabbed
ancl shot is a man called Malik.
464
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,295
Do you know
anyone by the name of Malik?
465
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,095
Malik rings a bell, but...
466
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,495
...that's about it.
467
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,095
I know a few Maliks.
468
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,055
Have you ever had any issues
with any of the Maliks?
469
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,775
No, I ain't had issues...
for a while, to be fair.
470
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,175
OK.
471
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,655
So, this is early hours in the
morning that this has happened.
472
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,295
Let's talk about, maybe the
Wednesday might help.
473
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,735
So, from the late afternoon through
to the early hours
474
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,535
of Thursday morning.
475
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,495
Ancl what I would like to know is
what you can tell me about it.
476
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,735
So, from about 6:00 onwards,
we had a Halloween party
477
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,055
at my ex-missus' house.
478
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,895
Family were there.
479
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,135
They left around 12 midnight.
480
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,175
And then, that was it, I was off
to bed with my ex-partner.
481
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,935
After the party finished,
did you ring anyone?
482
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,375
Uh, I ain't got... Speak to anyone?
I haven't got a phone.
483
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,095
You haven't got a phone?
No, I haven't got a phone, no.
484
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,815
Right.
485
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,615
Why don't you have a phone?
486
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,215
I was robbed about a month ago.
487
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,375
Have you reported that
to the police? No.
488
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,295
So, if I mention the name,
Stephen Michael O'Dell,
489
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,935
does that ring a bell at all?
No comment.
490
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,215
Is he a friend of yours?
No comment.
491
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,655
Did he play any part in this attack?
No comment.
492
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,135
Other persons that we are
interested in...
493
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,815
BLEEP.
494
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,815
Do you know who he is?
Yeah, I know who he is.
495
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,335
You know who he is. Yeah.
How do you know him?
496
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,215
Um, same high school.
497
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,015
When did you last see him?
498
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,375
Last see him...
499
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,855
Oh, it'd have been a mate's wedding.
500
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,215
Do you know if he's involved in
the attempt murder of Malik?
501
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,495
I would like to think not.
502
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:28,975
OK.
503
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,695
The other man we're interested
in is a man called... BLEEP.
504
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,735
Yeah. Do you know him?
Yes, I know him.
505
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,255
How do you know him?
Oh, he's been a mate for...
506
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,855
...I'd say close to ten years.
507
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,455
I'm going to ask you about Samad Ali
and Stephen O'DelL
508
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,175
Do you know any of those guys?
No comment.
509
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,375
Do you know anyone by the name
of Samad Ali?
510
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,095
No.
511
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,415
You sure? 100%.
512
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,855
Would you be linked to the attack
in any way?
513
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,335
No comment.
514
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,215
Forensically, DNA.
515
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:06,695
No comment. Blood.
516
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,135
No comment.
517
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,935
Do you have any reason to believe
that anything linked to you
518
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,695
would have been left at the scene?
No comment.
519
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,095
So, are you aware of DNA,
fingerprint, ancl things like that?
520
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,495
Yeah.
521
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,175
So, would we find any of your DNA
at the scene?
522
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,455
No. Nothing, whatsoever. OK.
523
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,735
Did you drop anything? No.
524
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,055
You sure? Yes.
525
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,495
Anything you want to say about that?
No. OK.
526
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,135
So, we have found your DNA
at the scene.
527
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,455
Impossible.
528
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,535
So, this is exhibit FMM9.
529
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,855
This is where Malik was found
fighting for his life.
530
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,135
OK.
531
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,455
Ancl this balaclava has been found.
532
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,935
Ancl your DNA is on that balaclava,
Steve.
533
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,255
Impossible.
534
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,975
How? Impossible. It's...
535
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,855
I only own one balaclava,
and that's my motorbike balaclava.
536
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,015
That one is 100% not my balaclava.
537
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,135
That's got your wearer DNA inside,
538
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,455
and that has got Malik's blood
on the outside.
539
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,815
Definitely not...
That's not my balaclava.
540
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,535
I don't give a shit what
you lot see.
541
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,175
You cannot say that's my balaclava.
542
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,575
1 million percent.
543
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,295
Well, why is your DNA there, then?
That's...
544
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,615
My DNA is not in that.
It is, mate. It is.
545
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,335
It's not. It's not.
546
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,695
Stephen, honestly, you can't just
sit here and say,
547
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,055
"That's not my balaclava.
That's not my DNA." I don't...
548
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,495
You need to tell me how your DNA
got in that.
549
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:25,815
Listen...
550
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,775
SOLICITOR: At this stage, do you
want to have a quick chat with me?
551
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,175
Yes, 100%, please.
552
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,095
OK, that's fine.
553
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,175
So, we'll end the interview, then,
at 1525.
554
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,495
WHISPERING: He didn't like that,
did he? Yeah.
555
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,255
Cos how he reacted was, like...
556
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,175
Do you believe him?
557
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,935
It wouldn't surprise me
if someone's reined it in.
558
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,655
No. Do you not reckon?
559
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,015
No. I don't...
560
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,815
He's lying about the party.
561
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,175
Yeah.
562
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,095
I was so shocked he started talking.
563
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,095
PHONE RINGS
564
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,695
Hello, Claire.
565
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,535
Hi, I've just come out of interview,
they wanted a break.
566
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,095
What, after you dropped
the bombshell? Yeah.
567
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,855
He literally just lost it.
568
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,535
Like, he completely changed
his behaviour.
569
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,975
"That is not my balaclava.
570
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,975
"That is not my DNA.
571
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,575
"The only balaclava I own is
my motorcycle balaclava."
572
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,375
Has he worn anyone else's?
573
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,135
I didn't get as far as that, Mike.
574
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,495
Cover all that off, cos,
obviously... Yeah, of course.
575
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,215
...he's going to come up with some
sort of story as to...
576
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,695
Yeah, absolutely.
577
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,535
All right, cheers.
Bye. Bye.
578
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,575
He's lying about it all.
Yeah, you can tell.
579
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,615
He's really nervous, isn't he?
But he....
580
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,655
He thought he was going to come in
here and give us that story,
581
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,415
and we were going to have nothing
to debunk it.
582
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,655
That DNA was just boom, wasn't it?
Yeah, he's a liar, though.
583
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,335
Yeah, he got a phone.
584
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,735
No-one would text someone like this,
with those injuries, for no reason.
585
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:02,535
Please enlighten me in relation
to why this has happened.
586
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,815
No comment.
587
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,375
Is it over drugs?
588
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:07,575
No comment.
589
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,575
Is it over money?
No comment.
590
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,335
Or has he just really pissed
someone off?
591
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:14,535
No comment.
592
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,255
Is this down to Malik assaulting
BLEEP in prison? No comment.
593
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,815
Is that what this is all about?
No comment.
594
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,135
Cos if it is, do you want to tell us
anything about that?
595
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,455
No comment.
596
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,135
There we are.
Bullet and balaclava results.
597
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,495
It is estimated that DNA profile
is at least one billion times
598
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,615
more likely to be his than to be
another unknown person.
599
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,415
Yeah, that's it, mate.
600
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,695
He's stuffed.
601
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,015
Do you want to write your notes up?
602
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,735
just thinking about the next
interview, though.
603
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,735
What possible defences?
604
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,215
Mm.
605
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,775
We always say, if they talk,
they probably didn't do it.
606
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,295
Yeah.
607
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,855
He's going to say no comment now,
isn't he?
608
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,295
That's good.
609
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,575
OK, so, we are talking about
this balaclava.
610
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,975
Inside we have found your DNA.
611
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,655
So, who else... It has to be someone
else's DNA on that.
612
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,855
Unless someone's got your DNA...
that matches your DNA.
613
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,775
Unless I've got a twin.
Have you got a twin, identical twin?
614
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:21,895
I know... But I know that.
615
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,655
I'm not trying to get, like,
rude or nothing.
616
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,615
I'm just trying...
No, no, I understand.
617
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,495
I was not at that scene.
618
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,855
That balaclava has to have someone
else's DNA on that.
619
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,535
I did not have that balaclava on.
620
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,575
And just... it just...
621
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,855
'n.
622
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,775
Who had that balaclava on?
623
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,135
This is what I'm trying to say,
right? If...
624
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:45,615
It was not me.
625
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,415
Hands down, it was not me.
626
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,415
If that was me, right...
627
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,415
I'm there attacking someone,
why would I take my balaclava off?
628
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,375
But in the melee...
629
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,695
We don't know what Malik was doing,
cos we're yet to speak with him.
630
00:34:56,720 --> 00:34:57,975
Yeah, I do know that, but...
631
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,935
But he might have been fighting
with his attackers
632
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,255
and it might have come off in the
struggle. Yeah, I understand that.
633
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,255
So, what I'm saying is...
634
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,575
I know if I go to a fucking
shooting,
635
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,895
a stabbing, or whatever else
that's happened,
636
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:15,295
and I leave something like that...
637
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,615
...I'm fucked.
638
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,215
So, let's go backwards.
639
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:21,735
When was the last time you wore
a black balaclava
640
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,135
that wasn't for motorbike racing?
641
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,775
We're talking about an attempted
murder here. Of course.
642
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,855
So, if you're talking about,
you've worn it for any
643
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,535
other criminality,
or anything like that.
644
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,815
OK, now's not the time to be
coy about it, because...
645
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,775
...given a slightly different version
of events,
646
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,095
your DNA could be at a murder scene.
647
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,855
Without trying to think that I'm
not taking it serious...
648
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,215
You need to tell us how your DNA
got in there.
649
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,775
Who had that balaclava?
Who wore it at the scene?
650
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,135
Who dropped it?
I don't know.
651
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,175
Have you committed a crime
wearing a balaclava
652
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,815
with any of the people that
we suggest are involved?
653
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,695
I don't know the other people
that you're saying.
654
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:03,735
I haven't committed a crime.
655
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,455
But you're mates. Well, you know
two out of three of them.
656
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,815
With them two, no.
With them, no? 100%, no.
657
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,095
Right.
658
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,335
The Sam...
659
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,135
Samad Ali, that's the other chap.
660
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,815
Samad Ali.
661
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,575
He could be... I don't know.
What do you mean, he could be?
662
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,575
He could be like a friend
of a friend.
663
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,575
Like, he could have been around me.
I don't know.
664
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,455
But this is not mine.
I do not own this balaclava.
665
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,095
Has anyone got any issues with you?
666
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,935
No, I have no issues with anyone.
667
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,455
Are you under any duress? No.
668
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,095
I'm not a fucking angel.
669
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,815
I've been... You know my records.
670
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,095
I've been fucking an idiot back
in the past, whatever else.
671
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,815
And I've done shit.
672
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,735
I don't live that lifestyle no more.
673
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,775
I have kids I look after.
674
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,535
This is not my balaclava.
675
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:43,855
Stephen...
676
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,175
OK, it might not be your balaclava.
677
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,975
Can I...? But it's your DNA.
Can I have a word with him, please?
678
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:51,295
That's fine, OK.
679
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,695
We'll just pause the interview
one minute.
680
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:54,095
OK, let's go to another room.
681
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,095
We'll leave the tapes running, so
don't say anything. Come out.
682
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,015
Yeah, there is.
Have you got one?
683
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,855
Yeah. If you go in that one.
684
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,455
All right, no worries.
685
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,695
He can't just say, "|t's not mine."
No.
686
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:08,055
Cos he's holding something back.
Yeah.
687
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,375
It's a one in one billion chance it
being a twin, and he knows that.
688
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,375
But he needs to talk to us.
689
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,735
You OK? Yeah.
690
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,135
You good? Yeah.
691
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:44,855
Can I just remind you, Steve,
692
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,215
the interview's still under
police caution.
693
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:50,455
So, we were just talking about
the statistics
694
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,815
and your DNA being on this
balaclava.
695
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,615
You lot are the professionals,
696
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,535
and you lot will get to the bottom
of who had that balaclava on.
697
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,575
I know that for a fact.
698
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,055
Do you know who had it on?
699
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,415
No. This is the thing, I do not
know who had it on.
700
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,015
If you knew who had it on,
would you tell me?
701
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,455
Listen, let me tell you something,
right?
702
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,495
It's not about being a grass,
or whatever else.
703
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,895
I don't give a shit...
It's about protecting them kids.
704
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,175
It's my family, right? My kids.
705
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:19,175
This is a life sentence.
Mm-hm.
706
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,215
Do you not understand that?
Yeah.
707
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:24,775
I am not risking my life
for my kids.
708
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,095
My kids are my everything.
709
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,415
So, if you knew who'd clone this,
you would tell us?
710
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:31,695
Yes.
711
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,615
If I knew, then... I don't know.
712
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,455
I would have to, if I knew.
713
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,175
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Yeah.
714
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,575
So, when would you have worn
a balaclava like that?
715
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,895
I ride my motorbike on the road.
It's not...
716
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,175
When you shouldn't be. Yeah.
717
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,575
OK. All right, fine. Well, we're not
here to talk about that.
718
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,375
Traffic of fences, attempted murder.
719
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,735
Yeah. Let's...
720
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,575
Yeah, I know what you're saying.
I know what you're saying.
721
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,095
All right?
722
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,615
So, it's possible you have worn
a balaclava like that?
723
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,015
Yes.
724
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,815
All the time to avoid the police.
725
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,175
I have a lot of people that
I go with.
726
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,695
Have you given one of your old
balaclavas...?
727
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:06,615
Them ones are long gone.
Where? Where did they go?
728
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,495
Long gone where?
I don't know.
729
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,095
Like, urn, there's been times
before when I've had it
730
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,615
in my man bag with my gloves.
731
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,175
Um, someone else has wanted
to borrow it.
732
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,175
I've had them in my pockets.
733
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,375
You know, I've had them, and I've...
They've gone.
734
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,055
So, when was the last time you lent
one to someone?
735
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,775
I don't know.
736
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,375
And who did you lend it to?
737
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,415
Urn...
738
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,655
Cos this is probably the most
important question you've been asked
739
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,375
in this interview.
740
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,975
Ancl your solicitor will tell
you this. No, no, no...
741
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,375
If that is a balaclava that you've
worn and you have lent to someone,
742
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,335
and then it's turned up at
an attempted murder scene...
743
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,815
I don't want to say the name,
then you go nick him for this...
744
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,375
...massive thing.
745
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,135
Who'd you give it to?
746
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,375
Mate, you need to tell us
who you gave it to.
747
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,495
Cos you're sitting here... No, I
know. ..arrested for attempt murder.
748
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,175
You might be charged.
749
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,535
I know this, I know this.
750
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,375
So, the guy who may have been
wearing this is walking free.
751
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,095
Come on, Steve, do the right thing.
I don't...
752
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:11,255
You're not a grass.
753
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:12,935
You've got your kids to think about.
754
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,215
Describe him to us.
755
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:16,775
White? Black? Asian?
756
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,215
Oh, no, he's...
757
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,495
I think he's Pakistani. OK.
758
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,175
Age?
759
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,135
OK.
760
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,735
Yeah, I don't know...
761
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,135
Slim, big?
762
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,695
Slim, um...
763
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:30,935
Not slim.
764
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,375
just think of him. Picture him
and describe him to us.
765
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,455
Can't remember if he's got
facial hair or not.
766
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,535
Urn...
767
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,215
And where's he from?
768
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,015
Don't know.
769
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,375
ls there anything else you can
tell us about him?
770
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,695
That's... I literally...
That's all| know.
771
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,455
I don't know his name.
772
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,095
OK.
773
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:59,935
All right, anything else?
774
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,535
OK.
775
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,055
All right, then.
776
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,615
That's not mine. OK.
777
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,215
Thank you for talking to us, Steve.
We'll end the interview now.
778
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,615
Hello.
779
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,175
He was adamant, mate.
780
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,775
OK.
781
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,575
There was a lot of things in there
that you kind of thought,
782
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:30,335
"You're lying," but I couldn't
pinpoint what he was lying about.
783
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:31,775
Yeah.
784
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,695
There's something he's not
telling us.
785
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:35,255
But we go on the evidence.
786
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,655
Ancl I don't think the reason he's
given us for his DNA being on
787
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,375
that balaclava at the scene
is enough.
788
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,895
Likelihood is, don't think
that's going to be enough to...
789
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,455
...negate what he's saying.
790
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,255
Whether he was lying cos he
knows what's happened,
791
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,015
whether he's lying cos he was there
and someone else had the balaclava.
792
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,255
And only right at the end did he
say, "Oh, I did have a balaclava
793
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,255
"like that, but I lent it
to a bloke."
794
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,815
Well...
795
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,615
If that's what he says...
796
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,895
He's involved in this somehow.
797
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,615
Enough to get his hands dirty.
798
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,215
Right, OK.
799
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,095
It's now come out that he might have
lent some bloke a balaclava.
800
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,455
He's tried to say, "|f I was going
to do it, I wouldn't be
801
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,335
"stupid enough to leave my
balaclava there."
802
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,255
Well, he didn't do it on purpose,
did he?
803
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,895
So, he's basically saying... I know.
People say that all the time.
804
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,655
Because he's a good criminal,
805
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,015
he's basically saying that he
wouldn't get caught out.
806
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,615
But how many times do you come out
of interviews sometimes
807
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,495
ancl think people are really, really
genuine, then you think, oh, yeah?
808
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:33,975
Yeah, exactly.
809
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,335
But bearing in mind the swabs are
from the mouth and the nose,
810
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:37,815
and if somebody else has
had that on...
811
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,695
There's no other profile.
812
00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:43,975
Yeah, we've got no other profile
in there.
813
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,055
Without enough evidence to link
two of the suspects
814
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,135
to the attempted murder,
police have no choice
815
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,055
but to release them on bail.
816
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,095
So, lighter, coat, belt,
100 quid in cash.
817
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,935
Sound right?
818
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,375
So, the bail conditions you've got
is not to contact directly,
819
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,335
indirectly Stephen Michael O'Dell
and Samad Ali.
820
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:19,895
Right, then.
821
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,615
Yeah, from O'Dell's data point
of view,
822
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,295
coming up to the incident, really,
it's being used.
823
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,615
Detectives have managed to link
Stephen O'Dell to a phone registered
824
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,175
to his former girlfriend's mother.
825
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,655
By 2:57, he's in the area where the
car is then later torched.
826
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,655
Ancl then he stops using his phone.
827
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,895
What it does, it destroys his alibi,
because he and his girlfriend
828
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,255
are saying that they were having a
party, and he was there all night.
829
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:46,895
His phone clearly does move away.
830
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,695
He's not at that party.
831
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,455
O'Dell says that he doesn't know
Ali, but clearly he does know Ali,
832
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,335
because less than 15 minutes
after the incident -
833
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,855
the incident's at 1 :55 - at 2:1 1,
Ali is calling O'Dell
834
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,175
and calls him for 35 seconds.
835
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,575
That call, in itself, shows that
they are associates.
836
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,375
So, O'Dell does know Ali.
Yeah.
837
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,375
The victim's come back in a taxi,
and they've been waiting for him.
838
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,695
Yes, that's correct.
839
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:22,495
There is obviously no other DNA on
the balaclava apart from his.
840
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,575
I guess he thought that if he came
out with a plausible account
841
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,975
at the start of it, then perhaps
we would believe him.
842
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,895
But there'll be something somewhere
which they absolutely will not have
843
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,775
thought about,
or made allowances for.
844
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,495
What's the saying? They've got
to be lucky all the time.
845
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,495
We've only got to be lucky once.
846
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,855
All right, that's brilliant.
Thanks ever so much.
847
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,815
All right, then. Thanks for your
time. Thank you. Bye-bye.
848
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:52,735
Mr O'Dell is going to be charged.
849
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:53,975
Oh, good.
850
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,655
Looking for remand, as well?
851
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,175
I'd have thought so.
852
00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:59,895
He's a wrong fun.
853
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,575
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