1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,535 This program me contains strong language, discussions of suicide 2 00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:07,015 and descriptions of stalking that some viewers may find upsetting 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,815 Megan, she's always said she likes animals better than people. 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,295 She had her first baby very young, 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,055 and she thought that that was the end of her going to college. 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,735 But she used her second maternity to do her veterinary. 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,015 She put everything into everything she did. 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,695 She met Dan in the town square in Peterborough. 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,135 The kids were playing and he asked her out. 10 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:44,495 He seemed happy and bouncy and like an overgrown puppy. 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,735 That's how I would describe him. 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,135 They moved in together after six, seven months 13 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,735 and it just sort of went from there. 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,775 But really didn't see it coming. 15 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,935 It's crucial that we find the truth. 16 00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:25,695 Police! Police! 17 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,455 Hands behind your back. 18 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,295 You've got to question everything. 19 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:30,375 Believe nobody. 20 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:33,775 It's almost a game of chess, 21 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:35,335 try and get them to slip up. 22 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,615 This is your opportunity to talk to me. 23 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,175 PHONE RINGS 24 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,815 Cambridgeshire Police emergency, 25 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:03,375 how may we help you? 26 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,855 Hi, um, this is going to sound really odd, 27 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,095 but I had a message from someone on Snapchat 28 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,255 saying that they've killed their ex-partner 29 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,615 and they want me to ring the police for them, 30 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:16,895 and they've given me an address to where they are. 31 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,935 The only thing I have is their Snapchat name is AuthenticDan. 32 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,615 AuthenticDan? Dan, yeah. Dan, as in Daniel. 33 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:31,255 Yeah. 34 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,095 It's a really odd situation. 35 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,975 OK, well, that's absolutely fine. 36 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,415 I'll get them to send somebody out immediately, OK? 37 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,295 Do you want me to call ambulance? What's his name? 38 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,335 Cambridgeshire Police immediately dispatch two response cars 39 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,695 and one Taser unit following the report 40 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,975 that a man has killed his ex-partner. KNOCK ON DOOR 41 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,095 Turn and face the stairs for me 42 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,495 and keep your hands where I can see them. 43 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,095 Just stay there where you are. 44 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,815 Keep your hands where I can see them. Yeah, sorry. Come in. OK? 45 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,455 My colleague is going to approach you. 46 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,575 She's going to put handcuffs on you. 47 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:18,895 Handcuffs? 48 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:20,815 Stay where you are. Right, put your hands there. 49 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,215 What for? Put your arms behind your back. 50 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,015 Who else is in the property? just me and the clogs. 51 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,815 OK. What's going on? 52 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,255 Keep your hands there. Don't make any sudden movements. 53 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,015 Right, we need to check this property, 54 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,375 because there's been a message sent saying that you've killed somebody. 55 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,015 What?! That's the information we've got, 56 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,335 so we need to pop them out an explanation. What?! Killed who? 57 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,215 Killed who? Is it Dan, is it? 58 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,255 Yeah, Dan? Yeah, what's...? Sorry, guys. What's going on? 59 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,775 Right, once my colleague has searched the property... 60 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,135 Well, can I turn around and sit down, if possible? 61 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:49,735 Yeah. Please? Is that all right? 62 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,695 So can you just say that again? 63 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,015 So we've had a message to say that someone in this address 64 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,575 has killed their ex-partner. 65 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,175 Are you...? Are you taking the piss? 66 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:58,495 No, we don't take the piss. 67 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,735 Like, we don't come to the door with Tasers for a joke. 68 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,815 We need to investigate. No, no, no worries. 69 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,215 No worries, like this. 70 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,455 Can I call her? Cos that's my ex-partner. 71 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:10,615 What's her name? We've literally... 72 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,175 Look... What's her name? Megan. 73 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,615 Look, we've literally just broke up. 74 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,975 So you've broken up with your ex-partner? 75 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,015 I'm still living here till I move out. 76 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,815 So you're still living here? And she's at work at the minute? 77 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:20,935 Yes. 78 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,455 My heart is going, man. 79 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,175 PHONE RINGS 80 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,095 Good afternoon. How can I help? Can I speak to Megan, please? 81 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,815 It's urgent. OFFICER: Who's that? 82 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:33,775 His partner. ON PHONE: Can I ask who's calling? 83 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,415 No, I just need to speak to Megan asap, please. 84 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,375 Hello, is that Megan? MEGAN: Yes! 85 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,735 Are you alive? 86 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,255 I'm at work. Oh, you're... 87 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:45,575 I've got four police officers here. 88 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,095 Apparently someone's called them saying that I've murdered you. 89 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,375 What are you on about? I'm at work. What am I on about? 90 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,735 Speak... What's your name? Jill. Speak to her. 91 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,375 Hi, Megan. We've had a call to say that someone here 92 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,895 may have hurt their ex-partner. 93 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:01,335 Yeah, this is me. I'm absolutely fine. 94 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:02,655 I've been at work all clay. 95 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,975 All right, then, really sorry to disturb you at work. 96 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,695 I'm just glad you're all right. 97 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,495 Yeah, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine, thank you. 98 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,895 No worries. Bye. Bye-bye. 99 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,215 Hello, this is Cambridgeshire Police. 100 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,495 Well, basically, I'm at home, yeah, 101 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,575 and I got a request on Snapchat 102 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,295 from a girl from Peterborough, yeah... 103 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,095 Right. "telling me that she needs my help 104 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,535 and she stabbed and killed her ex-partner. 105 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,335 I thought she was lying. 106 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,535 Yeah. But she just sent me a picture... 107 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,935 ...of someone on the floor with blood all around them 108 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,215 and it looks very real. 109 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,335 Her name's Megan. 110 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,895 She said this guy's been dead for hours. 111 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,375 I'm going to get some help organised for you. 112 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:51,455 Just stay on the phone. 113 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,175 OK, Oscar one. 114 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:54,375 Go ahead. 115 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:55,855 I have requested ambulance. 116 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:00,615 So, just to confirm, 117 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,335 how many people are hurt? 118 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:03,895 We don't know. 119 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,695 We're thinking it's potentially going to be a male 120 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,615 named Daniel Dugdale. 121 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,055 Is there any serious bleeding? 122 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:11,335 Yes, yes. 123 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,495 Five response officers, an armed vehicle 124 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,775 and three ambulances are deployed. 125 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,775 RADIO BEEPS 126 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,495 just for your information on arrival, 127 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,255 house is all in darkness at the moment. 128 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:41,535 Just putting a knock in now. 129 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,495 KNOCK ON DOOR 130 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,175 Hello, Megan? I'm Megan. Megan. Hi, Megan. 131 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:49,655 It's armed police. 132 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,215 I'm going to be perfectly frank with you. 133 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,655 We've had information that you've potentially stabbed someone. 134 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,015 Is there anyone else here at the moment? 135 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,375 My children are sleeping upstairs. just your children. 136 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,095 So if you're happy, we'll come in. 137 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,015 There was a call about another address. 138 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,535 With your Snapchat stuff... 139 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,055 That's not my Snapchat. It's not yours? 140 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,375 It's not mine. Right, OK. 141 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,175 So, yesterday they created two, 142 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,215 but they'd used my email for one and my phone number for another. 143 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,535 Have you fallen out with anyone recently, like ex-partners? 144 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,975 No, like, I keep myself to myself. 145 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,295 Well, I split up with my ex, 146 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,055 but he's apparently also being attacked in this, so... 147 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,375 Yeah, just confirm we've got Megan, 148 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,095 and her kids are fast asleep upstairs. 149 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,615 We're talking to her now, but certainly no-one's been stabbed. 150 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,575 We've searched the house. 151 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:30,935 All right, thanks very much. 152 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,175 All right, cheers. 153 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,375 Police conduct a welfare check on the ex-partner, 154 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,535 who has recently moved to a new address. 155 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,095 What was his name? Daniel. 156 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,095 Daniel? 157 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,655 Oh, hello. Hello. I'm looking for someone called Daniel. 158 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,295 We're here because, allegedly, you've been stabbed, so... 159 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:51,655 You got badges? 160 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:52,935 I need proof of who you are. 161 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,375 Our ID cards? Yes, please. 162 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:55,975 Yeah, yeah, that's all right. What's been going on? 163 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,295 That's my warrant card. Got my warrant card there. 164 00:07:58,320 --> 00:07:59,535 And that one? Yep. 165 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,495 Who called you? I have no idea. No, can you call...? 166 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,015 I'm guessing are your officers at Megan's? 167 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,415 Just to make sure she's all right. We've literally just come from... 168 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,055 Yeah, we've just come from there. Yeah. 169 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:10,535 I should explain what's been going on. 170 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,015 So, what are they doing? Snapchatting you 171 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:13,495 or messaging you or...? 172 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,215 It's gone from, so, what, two weeks ago now 173 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,775 they put a post up that I committed suicide. 174 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,095 Right. Ancl this is on...? 175 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,735 Facebook, Snapchat, emails, fucking you name it, it's on them. 176 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,695 Right, yeah, right. It's too much for me. 177 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,335 It's getting too much, all right. It's too much. 178 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,175 Like, I can't... I don't sleep, I don't eat, 179 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:31,855 I don't drink because all this shit, 180 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,015 it's getting to the point where I'm too scared to walk to work. 181 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,015 Mm. 182 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,695 Oh, look, a random click pic they sent us. 183 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,735 Yeah. Thanks, guys. 184 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,135 How did they send that? 185 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,455 Er... Facebook. 186 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,175 Oh, it's obviously difficult when it's all online. 187 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,735 You're fine, but we now need to get to the bottom 188 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,175 of all of this crap that's going on, isn't it? You're telling me. 189 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,495 I know, I know, yeah. 190 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,495 Engaging with Daniel now, we're standing down ambulance. 191 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,295 He certainly doesn't need their requirements. 192 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,455 Life is hard as it is. 193 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,135 I've had anxiety attacks quite a lot. 194 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,135 I shake. 195 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,015 I'm scared that someone's going to kill me. 196 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,255 I can be sat in a room full of people, 197 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,095 you don't know what A, B, C person is going to do to you. 198 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:39,735 How are you meant to go out with friends 199 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,015 when you feel like that? 200 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,375 When you feel like everyone's against you? 201 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,655 You never know when it's going to attack you, really. 202 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:48,175 Ancl that's the scariest thing about it. 203 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,935 Normally when you get given an investigation, 204 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,855 you have a suspect, 205 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,295 like most people know who it is that they're accusing of a crime, 206 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,575 so it adds a whole other layer 207 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,215 that you're dealing with an unknown. 208 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:17,415 You don't know who they are, 209 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,695 you don't know what they're capable of. 210 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,935 Hello. Hello, Megan? It's DC Richardson calling. 211 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,775 Hi. I'm just wondering if you'd be able to come in Tuesday 212 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,295 to get your phone downloaded. 213 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,095 I suppose it's the boy who cried wolf. 214 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,735 You know, they could have reported a hoax call three times, 215 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,015 the next one could be real. Yeah, you never know. 216 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,455 PHONE RINGS 217 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,215 Good evening, Cambridgeshire Police. How can we help? 218 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,135 Just I've had a very strange message 219 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:07,135 that's got me quite freaked out from someone I don't even know. 220 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,735 "I've just murdered my kids and ex." 221 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,535 Right, OK. Where is this? 222 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:18,935 What's the address? 223 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,535 We're here. Yeah. 224 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,815 So when was the last time this happened? 225 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,615 Who do you think it is, sorry? 226 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,055 Oh, you don't know? 227 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,095 MEGAN: Cheers. 228 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,855 KNOCK ON DOOR 229 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:38,775 Police. 230 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:42,815 Hello, Megan? 231 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,135 You all right? 232 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,815 Hello, come in. 233 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,415 Yes, please. 234 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,735 Hello. You're not going out to play. 235 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,175 Oh, thank you. 236 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,655 It must be very frustrating for you. Yeah. 237 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:55,175 Fair enough. We'll get out your way. 238 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,735 Sorry about that. Thank you. 239 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,575 KNOCK ON DOOR Are you...? 240 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,095 We had a call from web chat 241 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,495 and it's just saying that you've killed the kids. 242 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,095 Can you call her on video? Yeah. 243 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,455 You don't know who's doing it, do you? No. 244 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,015 PHONE RINGS Hi. 245 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,175 Hi, can the police see the children? Hello. 246 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,775 Well, apparently I've killed them, so they need to see them. 247 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:49,815 Yeah. 248 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,455 I'm just constantly worried about her safety. 249 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,855 30 miles away doesn't sound long, 250 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,815 but if anything happens, I can't be there quick. 251 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,455 I can't get there quickly. 252 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,375 It's out of your control, 253 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,815 and because you don't know who it is... 254 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,975 If you know it's a certain person doing a certain thing, 255 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,815 you can take action to prevent that or to stop it. 256 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,135 But when you don't know, there's nothing you can do. 257 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,975 That's the hardest thing, 258 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,455 is watching your child go through something 259 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,295 you can't help them with. 260 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,695 Cambridgeshire Police emergency, how can I help? 261 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,095 Yeah, hello there. 262 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,015 I'm concerned about my daughter. 263 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,295 She's had death threats, 264 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,775 and I've not been able to get in contact with her 265 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,575 since six o'clock this evening. 266 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,735 I'm worried for her safety. 267 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,695 PHONE RINGS 268 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,335 Cambridgeshire Police, how can we help you? 269 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,215 Hiya. I've got an ongoing case with CID, 270 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,975 with PC Richardson. Yeah. 271 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,815 I just need to report more stuff that's been happening. 272 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,135 Thank you. just give me one moment. 273 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,615 Yeah. 274 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,415 The female victim in a serious harassment investigation reports 275 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,375 that while she is OK, the threats against her are escalating. 276 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,775 So, Megan had a malicious report to social services 277 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,135 about her children, saying that she was a prostitute 278 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,055 and she takes drugs and that she has random men 279 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,655 round the house with the kids, 280 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,495 so social services had to investigate that. 281 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,375 A lot of effort being made to target them. Yeah. 282 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,935 Ancl daily as well at this point, like, I really feel for them. 283 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,775 It's a horrible situation to be in. 284 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,015 A hoax is a malicious call to an emergency service. 285 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,775 You've then got the resources being taken up 286 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,735 that could be used for someone genuinely in need. 287 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,535 I've been in the serious crime team for just over two months, 288 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,135 and this is one of my first proper investigations 289 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,855 that I have been OIC for, 290 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,575 so it is quite a big one to tackle straight off the bat. 291 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,375 Trainee detective Emily Richardson seeks advice 292 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,175 from Sergeant Tracy Williams, 293 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,855 the force lead on stalking. 294 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,935 OK, can you just take me through this from the start? 295 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,655 I know we've got Daniel and Megan. 296 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,975 So they'd been in a relationship for about two years. 297 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,255 That broke down around Christmas. 298 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,895 Around 6th January 299 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,095 is when he started receiving messages. OK. 300 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,495 Ancl then shortly after he started receiving messages, 301 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,775 she started receiving the messages as well. 302 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,415 So, she's a vet nurse. Yeah. 303 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,855 So someone set up an email address in her name 304 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,135 and emailed the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons... Yeah. 305 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,575 ...and said, "I don't want to be a vet nurse any more. 306 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,455 "Take me off the register." OK. 307 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:17,175 There was a malicious social services report. 308 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,855 There was allegations that she was taking drugs in the house, 309 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,575 she was a prostitute. 310 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,895 Like, really bad stuff. 311 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,615 It's not just harassment, 312 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:26,775 this is stalking. 313 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,735 This is more severe. 314 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,575 It's more personal. Mm-hm. 315 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,135 One in two stalkers, 316 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,015 if they make a threat to harm or to kill the victim, 317 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,615 they will actually go ahead and do it. 318 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,295 That is...you know, that's where you can die from being stalked. 319 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,735 People don't die from being harassed, 320 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,215 they can die from being stalked, 321 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,735 and that is the major difference. 322 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,015 When you understand it personally, 323 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,735 you have more sympathy 324 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,655 for the people that it's happening to. 325 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,295 So, I have been stalked. 326 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,135 When I realised what exactly had been happening, 327 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,015 I thought, "Oh, my God, you know, I'm a police officer. 328 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,335 "I should have seen it for what it was." 329 00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:12,895 But I'm not just a police officer, 330 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,375 I'm a human being. 331 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,335 I'm a woman, I'm a mother, 332 00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:20,655 and I know what this behaviour can do to somebody. 333 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,975 DISTORTED VOICE: 334 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,815 Both victims are asked to surrender their phones for analysis. 335 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,575 ON PHONE: Megan, are you ready to die? 336 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,855 I'll be waiting at the top of the road for you. 337 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,135 Or in the woods. just know I see you, but you can't see me. 338 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,495 Can't even work out what that one says. 339 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,215 Something like, "|'ll be waiting top of the road or in the woods. 340 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,735 "I can see you, but you can't see me." 341 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,055 It's definitely not stopping. 342 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,615 Whoever's doing it is relentless. 343 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,175 Like, it's a full-time job. 344 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,535 They're sending hundreds of messages every day. 345 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:52,615 Yeah, when was the...? What was the date? 346 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,375 So that was 13th January at 11.06. I remember getting it at work. 347 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,415 They're using a mask behind different profiles on social media. 348 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,095 They're changing them all the time. 349 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:04,895 They're using no caller ID to call. 350 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,215 So they're really going to great lengths 351 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,535 to keep themselves anonymous. 352 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,415 He's given a statement, she's given a statement. 353 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,575 I just need to arrange for him to come in and give his phone in, 354 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,535 but he was busy this weekend, so... Oh, OK. 355 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:21,855 But he is going to give his phone in? 356 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,215 Apparently, yeah. OK. You don't sound sure. 357 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,135 Well, he said he was going to before, 358 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,935 and then he said that he couldn't, so... 359 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,695 Oh, OK. We'll see. 360 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,335 PHONE RINGS 361 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,455 Hello, love. 362 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,335 I've currently got an ongoing investigation 363 00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,215 happening with my ex-partner. OK. 364 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,775 What is it that's happening? 365 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,055 Who's the suspect in this? 366 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,855 The officer doesn't know yet. 367 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,535 DC Richardson is under pressure from Daniel Dugdale 368 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,335 to identify the anonymous stalker. 369 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:52,935 Been on duty for the last couple of clays, 370 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,335 and I've had quite a few messages, 371 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,335 because he's called in to 101 because he wants to speak to me. 372 00:19:57,360 --> 00:19:58,975 He turned up at the station a couple of times 373 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,455 to talk to me as well, I think, 374 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,175 when I've not phoned him back straight away. 375 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,095 So it's just... He's quite intense. 376 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,615 I had an email from our intelligence unit. 377 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,655 There was another hoax Snapchat received from someone in the USA 378 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,495 and the Snapchat self-reported it, 379 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,375 and then Interpol Washington sent it through to me, 380 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,535 so that was bizarre to come in to on a Monday morning. 381 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,855 Not the normal thing that hits my inbox. 382 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,815 Officers visit a witness who received a hoax murder report 383 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,535 from a Facebook account claiming to be Megan. 384 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,575 Hello, you OK? Hiya. 385 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,895 Are we all right to come in? DOG BARKS 386 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,255 It's all right. 387 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,975 So I've got the, um, information from the 999 call from you, 388 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,695 but that's kind of all I've got. 389 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,135 So if you could just sort of talk me through, like, what happened. 390 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,415 Just a random message. 391 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,215 Yeah? it just said hey. 392 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,135 Then another one - "Do you have kids?" 393 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,495 So I messaged back saying, "Why did you ask?" 394 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,855 And that's when I got the big message 395 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,815 saying about, "I've killed my boyfriend and the kids." Right. 396 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,175 Like, "Ring the police, this is my address." 397 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,335 So, how did you feel when you saw that? 398 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:15,895 It frightened me. 399 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,135 Yeah. It shook me up quite a bit. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. 400 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,375 And someone called Dan that was on my Facebook, 401 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,495 he'd popped up that day to say hello cos he was bored. Right. 402 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,855 And he kept trying to ring me and I kept ending it, saying, 403 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,535 "No way I'm dealing with someone, cos I just got that." 404 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,975 He started saying that he thinks he's got the same message 405 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,335 that I've got, even though I hadn't said that I got a message yet, 406 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:45,135 which made it really weird. 407 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,895 Sorry, so who said...? 408 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,815 Sorry, run that past me again. 409 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,575 Yeah. Megan or whoever it is... 410 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,895 Yeah. ..had sent the same message, copy and pasted. 411 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,055 So he told me what it said before I'd sent him the screenshot. 412 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,415 Right. What's his name on Facebook? 413 00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:59,655 Dan Dugdale. 414 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,375 So, are you friends with him on Facebook? 415 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,175 I was friends with him on Facebook, yeah. OK. 416 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,615 But he's only spoken to me once, like a year ago, 417 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,575 because he thought he found my bank card 418 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,935 in Peterborough in a pub he was working in. 419 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,255 Yeah. OK. Wow. There's a lot to unpack there. 420 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,655 Yeah, it was all quite weird. 421 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,015 Have you ever heard from him since? Yeah. 422 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,335 He was ringing me every bloody day. He became a nuisance. 423 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:21,735 Really?! 424 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,735 Oh. OK. 425 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,655 Did you ever meet him or anything like that? Once. You did? Yeah. 426 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,175 It was after then that I just blocked him because he was 427 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,455 so up himself. Oh, really? Yeah. 428 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,895 He wasn't the nice person that he pretends to be. 429 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,655 OK. 430 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,255 Is this Dan involved in it all? 431 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,935 Did you know of him already? 432 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,735 Yeah, there's quite a lot to it. 433 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,175 I'll just speak to my sergeant and then I'll see how much 434 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,455 I can tell you about. 435 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,095 All right. 436 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,295 And people told me I was silly for ringing it through. 437 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,415 No, not at all. 438 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,775 Not at all. You did the right thing. 439 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,655 Hello. She received this message from Megan 440 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,535 saying, "|'ve killed my kids," blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. 441 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,695 At the same time, she received a message from Dan saying, 442 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,495 "Oh, I've received this message as well." 443 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,855 "Don't crash on your way home. I'll run you off the road. 444 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,455 "Can I kill you? Your kids will be better off without you." 445 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,815 Where is this coming from? This is the Facebook messages 446 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,735 she's received. "Go kill yourself. Crash your car. 447 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,375 "I won't rape you. You'll be begging for it." Wow. 448 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,095 The police team review the threatening messages 449 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:35,495 sent to Megan. 450 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,015 Pictures of dead clogs, Satanic pictures of animal sacrifices, 451 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,935 pornographic pictures, bestiality, pornography. 452 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,295 It's horrible. It's proper horrible. 453 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,095 With all phone work, there's limitations, especially for a case 454 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,575 like this, where a lot of the crime has been committed on social media, 455 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,415 but there's a lot of things in the background that we can do 456 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,295 that perhaps people aren't aware of. 457 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,775 He's rung her at 3.26.06, 3.26.10, 458 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,255 3.26.13, 3.26.17. Like, literally every four seconds. 459 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:05,815 But he's been withholding his number, 460 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,695 so that's come through to her as no caller ID. 461 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,655 The stalker is using a no caller ID, 462 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,455 but the phone work reveals which number is actually 463 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:14,975 being used for that. 464 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,375 Nobody can stay anonymous for ever. 465 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,495 Officers now have grounds to arrest. 466 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,535 So, I think everyone kind of knows, like, a basic overview of the case. 467 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,655 Daniel, who we're going to arrest, initially reported himself 468 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,815 as a victim. So, the suspect is going to be a bit surprised, 469 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,815 I think, when we turn up and arrest him. 470 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,295 Make sure we seize any kind of electronic device 471 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,975 that he could be using. 472 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,335 Ancl then I think Elliot's going to try and download... 473 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:48,935 If we can try and identify pin codes for any devices early doors... 474 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,335 Brill. 475 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:52,695 OK. Cool. Happy clays. Let's roll. 476 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,695 Hiya. The police. Hello. ls Daniel here? 477 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,695 OK. Um... 478 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,215 Right. The time is three minutes past nine 479 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,135 and you're under arrest for stalking and wasting police time. 480 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,495 So, you do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence 481 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,975 if you do not mention when questioned 482 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,535 something which you later rely on in court. 483 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,895 Anything you do say may be given in evidence. Really? 484 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,215 Yeah. Is that...is that your phone there? Yeah. 485 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,855 Can I take that from you for now? 486 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,855 Has it got a pin code on it? 487 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,495 Four, five, seven, eight. Cool. 488 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,055 Four, five, seven, eight. 489 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,375 27-year-old Daniel Dugdale is under arrest on suspicion 490 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,655 of stalking his ex-partner and wasting police time. 491 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,055 What's the type of stalking? 492 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,655 So, we've got messages from Facebook accounts, 493 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,295 hoax police calls, repeated unwanted contact and calls. 494 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,975 It's just an allegation. No, no, no. No worries. 495 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,975 I nearly, nearly, nearly said something. OK. 496 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,415 Why would you not want to have free and independent legal advice...? 497 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,815 I don't need it, sir. 498 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,255 I know that sounds cocky, arrogant. 499 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,015 I know what I'm going to say and no-one's going to change my mind, 500 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,015 SO... 501 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,495 Is anyone affected by you being here? 502 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,855 Do you need to be looking after a child or a sick relative? 503 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,215 My son. I'm meant to be picking him up at three o'clock. 504 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,895 So, what will happen if you don't pick him up? Is it from school? 505 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,135 Yeah, yeah. So, do you need to let someone know? 506 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,415 Yeah, yeah, if possible. Great. OK. 507 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,455 You all right? 508 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,055 DANIEL EXHALES 509 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,375 It's the first time I'm seeing him in, like, six weeks. 510 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,855 Today was? Yeah. OK. 511 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,215 I have two things in my life. 512 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,495 That's my son and that's myself. That's it. 513 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,695 I decided to disown my mum... 514 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,655 But now I'm not, it's her loss. 515 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,055 |t's...it is her loss. 516 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,975 But I'll never be that kind of parent. 517 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,015 I won't, and that's that. 518 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,015 That's that. just cos you lose someone in your life, don't let it 519 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,455 affect you, cos it's not worth it. 520 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,095 Yeah. 521 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,495 The amount of life I've lived at such a young age... 522 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,375 But, like, I'm adamant I'm going to die by, like, 40. 523 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,895 I don't want to be old. It scares me, being old. 524 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,815 It's a difficult one, to call it, but I think he's going to 525 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,735 own up to something... OK. 526 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,615 ...perhaps not everything, but he will... Interesting. 527 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,975 ...admit certain things. It's going to throw me, 528 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,015 if he does that, I think. Um... Roll with it. 529 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,655 No, it's fine. Roll with it. 530 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,815 Yeah, but let's go interview him. Yep. I'm nearly there. 531 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,215 I keep getting distracted. 532 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:48,575 My head hurts. 533 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,735 You did an amazing job. Did anybody tell you that? 534 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,335 Thanks. Honestly, I mean it. 535 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,135 I feel like I'm like a little duck with the feet underwater. 536 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,455 Hello. 537 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,815 I'm here for interview for Daniel Dugdale, please. 538 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,495 In here. Daniel, that's your chair, mate. 539 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,495 Are you coming in? Yes. Yes, absolutely. 540 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,775 I'll just get you a drink and then we'll get rolling. 541 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,255 OK. So, obviously, you've had a brief explanation 542 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,095 at the custody desk of the of fences that you...that have been alleged, 543 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,895 but I'm just going to go into it in a bit more detail. 544 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,735 Um, so, I've obviously got a statement from Megan. 545 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,415 She's outlined some of the messages that she's received 546 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,455 through Facebook, and I just want to read out some of them to you 547 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,815 and you tell me whether that was you... Yeah, OK. 548 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,615 ...or not that said that. OK, so, we've got, 549 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,215 "Don't crash on your way home. I will run you off the road." 550 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,575 What? With my legs? Cos I don't drive. 551 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,895 OK, so, that one wasn't you? Sorry, that was really quite... No. 552 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,095 No? OK. 553 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,335 "Can I kill you?" No. Why? 554 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,255 All right. "Your kids would be better off without you." No. 555 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,735 Um, "I won't rape you. You'll be begging for it." 556 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,335 No, we fucking spoke about it, 557 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,255 and the fact she listed that pisses me off. I wouldn't ever do that. 558 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,575 All right. "You've hurt me for the last time." 559 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,455 No, because I've had messages as well, and I'm not messaging 560 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,815 myself doing this. That's what I mean. 561 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,215 OK. Um, pornographic pictures, including bestiality? No. 562 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,815 Do you understand what bestiality...? Yes. Yeah? Yeah. OK. 563 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,175 I googled it cos she sent...she sent me the pictures... Right. 564 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,135 ...and videos and links, so I'll click on it, which is great, 565 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,895 I'm there for her, but it's going to look bad that I've searched 566 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,215 for this now, right? Right. I see what you're saying. 567 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,815 OK. So, she's had voice notes as well where a voice-changer 568 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,695 has been used. Now, these were sent through Facebook Messenger. 569 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,295 No. But did she tell you that I messaged her and I found out the... 570 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,695 ...the app what they was using? 571 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,295 No. There you go. 572 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,015 What app was that? I can't remember without my phone. No? 573 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:16,975 No. She's done me dirty, yeah. So, like stuff like this, yeah, 574 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,295 I've typed it in and gone through the voice notes 575 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,095 and, "Megan, it's that one there," 576 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,055 but now I'm realising that that looks 577 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,855 really fucking bad, doesn't it? So, have you ever sent her 578 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,135 any messages with the voice-changing...? No, no. 579 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,655 Um, I've asked you about Facebook. 580 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,295 Have you ever sent anything via Snapchat to Megan? 581 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,615 No. No? 582 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,935 Have you ever made an account pretending to be Megan... 583 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,815 No. ..on Snapchat? No. 584 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:02,375 So, on Daniel's device, he has 121,000 messages total. 585 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,535 And over 80,000 of those are either to or from Megan. 586 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,455 Megan's contact is four times the amount of any other person 587 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,135 on his device. 588 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:18,015 OK. I'm just going to do a quick keyword search just for "Megan". 589 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,815 Yep. 590 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,055 So, can you get into Facebook? 591 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:28,015 On its own, the no caller ID calls could be circumstantial. 592 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:29,935 They are ex-partners, 593 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,455 they've quite recently split up, so it's important that we find 594 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,095 some more evidence on that phone, if it is Daniel, and obviously 595 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,455 if there's nothing else at all on there, I might have to question 596 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,695 whether it is him or whether it is someone else. 597 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,695 I can already see that there's a number of notes 598 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,015 that have been marked for deletion, currently in the trash. 599 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,575 Wow. OK. 600 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,255 One of which says, "I've killed my kids. 601 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,495 "I need your help. 602 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,415 "I have weapons in the house. 603 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:02,735 "They are not breathing. 604 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,935 "I have buried them, one in a dog-walking trail." 605 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,655 Excellent. Fab. 606 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,375 Thanks for that. Thank you. Bye. 607 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,095 This is on his phone and his notes from 12th February. 608 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,455 It's Megan's details and it says, "I've killed my kids. 609 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,815 "I need your help. I have weapons in the house. 610 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,335 "They're not breathing. I've buried them on a dog walking trail," 611 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,575 which is pretty much exactly what got sent to 101 web chat. 612 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,615 This is fantastic. That's a deleted note, apparently. 613 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,895 Oh, deleted note? Yeah. 614 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,175 The plot thickens. 615 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:38,815 Mm. 616 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,135 Is it pure orange juice or orange squash? Squash. 617 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,975 That's even better. Are you sure? Yeah, definitely. OK. 618 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,615 Sorry. OK. So, it's an ongoing right, your legal advice. 619 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,655 So, at any time in this interview, you change your mind, 620 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,175 just let us know. We can stop the interview and we can get you 621 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,055 a solicitor. OK? Yeah. 622 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,335 Um, OK. 623 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,855 So, we have had a quick look at your phone from, like, 624 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,415 a cursory look. 625 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:25,855 So, the web chats, on one of the clays someone purporting 626 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,495 to be Megan is on the 101 web chat for Cambridgeshire Police 627 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:35,935 and there was also a deleted note on your phone. 628 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,695 It says, um, "I've killed my kids... 629 00:34:39,720 --> 00:34:41,335 "I need your help... 630 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,615 "I have weapons in the house... 631 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,495 "They are not breathing... 632 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,895 "I have buried them, one a dog-walking trail." 633 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,695 Ancl that is literally word for word what... 634 00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:55,135 ...the report that was received... What? ..by web chat. On my phone? 635 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,415 On my phone? Yeah. 636 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,135 Whereabouts on my phone? In your deleted notes. 637 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,735 Can I see this message? 638 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,975 Sorry. 639 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,615 It's all right. I'm trying to be very honest with you and just... 640 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,855 Essentially, that's the deleted note there. 641 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,415 I'm adamant it weren't me. But I might have lied to you. 642 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,015 There you go. It was me. 643 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,695 I've got... I've got no way of explaining that it wasn't. OK. 644 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,695 HE CLEARS HIS THROAT 645 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,735 Before I say anything, I just want to apologise to Megan 646 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,055 because it's not all been me. 647 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,415 OK. But... 648 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,455 I don't know if you've ever been in... 649 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,015 I don't know if you've ever been in love with someone. 650 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:28,935 It's... It's hard. 651 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,175 I've never met someone... 652 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,415 ...and I don't mean this, like, fucking cringey or... I've never met 653 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,695 someone so perfect. 654 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,615 And... 655 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,055 And looking back at... Fuck off! And looking back at it... 656 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,255 ...she made me lose everything. 657 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,535 And it hurt. 658 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:54,695 OK. 659 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:56,135 Um, have you ever... 660 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,455 With the Facebook accounts, have you ever used them 661 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,015 to send death threats to Megan? 662 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,735 A few times. A few times. OK. 663 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,055 Do you remember what you said? No, no. 664 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,935 Just one of them, I'd say it, 665 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,935 and I'd literally... 666 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,255 It's like I had two different people inside me at one point. 667 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,615 One was making the fake profiles, then the one who'd be speaking 668 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:19,535 to Megan, like, love, 669 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,055 like, we'll get through this together, 670 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,695 like, we'll find out who it is. 671 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:25,655 And then it was me. 672 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:29,855 I've said some horrible stuff to her, 673 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,735 to be honest, I've said some real, real horrible stuff. 674 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,335 In a way, I was trying to protect her. 675 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,975 No, I was trying to hurt her, then... 676 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,335 No, I was trying to hurt her 677 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,015 so she needed me. 678 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,295 But not... No, not like... 679 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:51,695 Like, I don't know. 680 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,495 In my head, I was like, oh, if she keeps getting these horrible 681 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,775 messages and I drop a bit more... 682 00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:59,735 It's embarrassing. 683 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,695 If I drop a few more personal details, it's going to scare her 684 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,055 a little bit more, then she's going to need me 685 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,015 a little bit more. 686 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,135 But, like, what do you say? The whole... 687 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,935 Soc... That wasn't me. 688 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,455 The social services? It wasn't me. 689 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,295 OK. I love her kids like I love my own son. 690 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,135 Like, that wasn't me. All right. 691 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,175 And I've made mistakes, 692 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:21,615 clearly, haven't I? 693 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,855 And I just want her to know that I am really sorry. 694 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,095 I wish I'd told her sooner. 695 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,935 Do you want anything, like a drink or...? 696 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:45,895 Yeah. A drink would be nice. Yeah? 697 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,695 What, an orange squash again or a hot drink? 698 00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:49,695 No. just a water. Water? Yeah. 699 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,055 All right, I'll sort that out for you. OK. 700 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,055 See you in a bit. Yeah. Cool. 701 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,295 I need a drink. 702 00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,775 Like a water drink. 703 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,175 Not a drink-drink, but also a drink-drink! 704 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,855 I think you need vodka, all right! 705 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,735 So I guess you called it, then, coughed a bit of it 706 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,095 and then denied the rest. 707 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,895 He did not accept entirely all of the blame, but he would not 708 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,855 have it that he was sending the message to himself. 709 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,615 I think you'll be able to probably get the evidence 710 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,815 that he did it somehow. It'll be on there somewhere, 711 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,735 I think. We've only scratched the surface of that phone download, 712 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,335 so... She will... 713 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,855 I guess she will want the restraining order. 714 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,415 Yeah, I'll look at a stalking protection order as well. 715 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:41,655 Cool. Good job. Thank you. 716 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:42,855 Well clone, Emily. 717 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,895 I know it was a marathon interview, really. 718 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,295 Thanks. I'm knackered. 719 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,335 Love breaks, like, so quickly. 720 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,135 That is the initial of the girl who's got me in trouble. 721 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,895 Thanks, love! 722 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,415 One thing I do believe in, 723 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,855 the worst drug you can do is love, 724 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,375 and everyone wants a bit of love. 725 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,695 It will... It will ruin you. 726 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:10,375 It will ruin you, no matter what. 727 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,575 Love is shit. Women are shit. 728 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,095 Stay single, 9W5- 729 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,175 Stay single. 730 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:19,295 I know it sounds bad. 731 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,655 Love less and stay single. 732 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,335 The officers have asked me to put a few conditions in place whilst 733 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,295 you are on bail. Yeah, that's fair enough. Yeah. 734 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,775 So number one is not to contact or interfere with, 735 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:38,175 directly or indirectly, any prosecution witnesses. 736 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,855 It needs to be really strongly justifiable to remand someone 737 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,775 and take their liberty away from them. 738 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,455 Daniel's made threats of violence. 739 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,415 He's made death threats. He's made rape threats. 740 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,255 But these threats haven't been acted on. 741 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,135 So the decision was made to bail. 742 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,495 This is your property that you're getting back. 743 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,655 Have you got my phone in there as well? 744 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,335 We'll be keeping your phone for the duration 745 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,695 of the investigation. I need my phone. 746 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:01,055 I understand, but we're going to keep it seized, 747 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:02,335 I'm afraid. We need it for evidential. 748 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,175 So, what, can I get a new phone? 749 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,335 Uh, yeah. 750 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,055 No reason why you can't get a new phone. 751 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,695 I think this is where stalking falls between the cracks 752 00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:13,495 a little bit, because he is still out there, 753 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,655 and if he's really intending causing the victim serious harm, 754 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,975 then he can still go and do that. 755 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,855 Ancl by the time the police are aware, it could be too late. 756 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,495 He was quite jovial in that interview, wasn't he? Yeah. 757 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,255 He comes across as sort of a bit like a helpless child, almost. 758 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,655 He played the victim quite well. 759 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,815 I don't think it's going to stop. 760 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,695 No. 761 00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:50,015 Stalking is an addiction. 762 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,975 When somebody is arrested for stalking, 763 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,695 you are disrupting their lifestyle. 764 00:41:54,720 --> 00:42:00,295 So the risk of the stalker becoming aggressive is higher 765 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,415 there because they're not getting their fix. 766 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,855 NARRATOR: Awaiting a final charging decision, 767 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,255 officers attend a national stalking convention held by a family whose 768 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:12,975 daughter was murdered by her stalker. 769 00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:18,535 It's been seven years since we lost Alice. 770 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,815 5% - no more than 5% - of stalking cases 771 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,815 reported to the police resulted 772 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,775 in a charge by the CPS. 773 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:26,895 5“/. 774 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,615 So there's a long, long way to go. 775 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,695 The CPS will default a lot of the time to harassment charge instead 776 00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,055 of stalking charge. 777 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,855 In a way, it is an easier conviction to get. 778 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,455 And that's not fair on the victim. 779 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,855 I think that is really diluting what has been happening. 780 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,335 Stalking leads to PTSD in 78% of victims. 781 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,375 Ancl so it goes on. 782 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,455 Four out of five stalkers, they will continue their behaviour. 783 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,695 No legal intervention is going to be enough, so the risks 784 00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:05,735 to the victim remain high until the perpetrator is apprehended 785 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,175 and, potentially, you know, imprisoned for what they're doing. 786 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,215 Those barricades are in the summer house all the time. 787 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:20,615 Doors locked, windows locked. 788 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,295 You honestly feel like you're losing your mind. 789 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,015 So I ended up, like, lashing out at everyone and shut myself off, 790 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,495 pretty much. 791 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,855 Ancl I think when, you know, it was found out that it was Dan, 792 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,215 I was, like, it made sense the whole time that it was him. 793 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:36,215 I just tried to kind of give him the benefit of the doubt 794 00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:39,455 and be, like, I don't know why he would do that. 795 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,415 Ancl then I was really mad that he'd clone it. 796 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,295 After Christmas, I started decorating my bedroom, just to try 797 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,095 and take my mind off things, you know? 798 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,735 Ancl there was just writing everywhere. 799 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,215 I wanted nothing to do with him. 800 00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:04,535 Ancl yet I was having to see his handwriting on these, you know, 801 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,495 love notes on the wall and stuff. 802 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,535 Yeah, it's made me feel really uncomfortable. 803 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,615 I'm a very confident, outgoing person, just looking 804 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,535 for a connection, I guess. 805 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,495 Just a connection with people. 806 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:31,655 Life is there to test you. 807 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,015 Only the strong survive, 808 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,615 you know? So clearly... 809 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,775 ...if there's a higher power, they can see that I'm strong enough 810 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,855 to go through it. 811 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,695 That's why they've given it to me and not other people. 812 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,535 And I'm here willing to take it. 813 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:44,735 Journey; 814 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,135 I will get through this, like, nothing's going to stop me 815 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:53,495 from getting where I want. My next thing... 816 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,215 "girlfriend will be my last. 817 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,375 Yep. He's here at the enquiry office. 818 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,375 I've had several careers before this. 819 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,455 I've had jobs in pensions, insurance. 820 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:26,735 I worked in a hotel. 821 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,495 I've worked in shops. 822 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,295 I'd get bored and normally swap every, like, two years. 823 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:33,815 Hello. You all right? 824 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,415 I just need to take you through to the desk. 825 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,895 Ancl then I came to work for the police. 826 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,695 So you're going to be charged with three of fences. 827 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:42,535 My colleague is going to read them out to you. 828 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:43,775 This is what you join the job for, 829 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,815 to have an investigation where you don't know who's doing it. 830 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,655 And you've got to get one step ahead of them 831 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,335 and then you catch them. 832 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,175 So, contrary to section 4A and 5 of the Protection 833 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,575 from Harassment Act 1997, pursued a course of conduct, namely, made 834 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,175 threats which amounted to stalking, causing Megan serious alarm 835 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:02,735 or distress, which had a substantial... 836 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,615 It's a big investigation to tackle as a fairly new detective. 837 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,815 But I feel a lot more content that I'm actually doing something 838 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:10,975 with a purpose. 839 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,415 You know, I really helped them sort out a problem, and that's nice. 840 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,655 Subtitles by Red Bee Media