1 00:00:11,803 --> 00:00:14,806 (dramatic music playing) 2 00:00:14,848 --> 00:00:16,808 (birds cawing) 3 00:00:16,850 --> 00:00:18,768 ♪♪ 4 00:00:18,810 --> 00:00:20,979 Michael Belcher: In March of 2016, 5 00:00:21,021 --> 00:00:22,647 I get a call from a 000 number. 6 00:00:22,689 --> 00:00:25,859 He says, "Hi, this is Deputy District Attorney John Lewin 7 00:00:25,942 --> 00:00:27,610 from the Major Crimes Division." 8 00:00:27,902 --> 00:00:29,446 He gets talking. He says, you know, 9 00:00:29,487 --> 00:00:32,490 "I'm working on the, you know, Durst case. Have you heard of it?" 10 00:00:32,531 --> 00:00:35,326 I said, "Fred Durst? Oh, my God!" He said, "No, no, no. 11 00:00:35,368 --> 00:00:37,328 "Fred Durst is the lead singer of Limp Bizkit. 12 00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:39,622 (metal music playing, slows to a stop) 13 00:00:39,664 --> 00:00:40,665 Robert Durst." 14 00:00:40,749 --> 00:00:43,376 I'm like, "Killed them all, of course." 15 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:45,628 And he's like, "I was very impressed with your resume. 16 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:48,340 I'd like you to, you know, come work for us." 17 00:00:48,381 --> 00:00:50,216 And I said, "Well, if you like me, 18 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:51,634 I have an identical twin brother." 19 00:00:51,676 --> 00:00:54,596 He says, "Really?! Does he wanna work on the Durst case?" 20 00:00:54,679 --> 00:00:56,931 I said, "Yeah! Of course, he does!" Like... 21 00:00:57,015 --> 00:00:59,517 -(shutter snaps) -(dramatic music playing) 22 00:00:59,601 --> 00:01:02,187 John Lewin: I ended up calling them the Wonder Twins. 23 00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:03,897 If you showed up at 5:00 in the morning, 24 00:01:03,980 --> 00:01:06,149 they'd be here at 4:30. If you left at 7:00, 25 00:01:06,191 --> 00:01:07,359 they would leave at 7:30. 26 00:01:07,442 --> 00:01:08,902 -(papers rustling) -(phones ringing) 27 00:01:08,985 --> 00:01:11,446 David Belcher: Our responsibilities, at the beginning, 28 00:01:11,529 --> 00:01:13,698 were to just sift through the evidence. 29 00:01:13,740 --> 00:01:15,450 (office chatter) 30 00:01:15,533 --> 00:01:18,370 There were 150,000 pages of discovery 31 00:01:18,453 --> 00:01:19,913 that we needed to go through. 32 00:01:19,996 --> 00:01:21,873 And the way that John works is 33 00:01:21,956 --> 00:01:23,708 he wants to know everything. 34 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:24,793 (shutter snaps) 35 00:01:25,502 --> 00:01:27,670 There were dozens of law students 36 00:01:27,712 --> 00:01:30,423 all going through the evidence, making sure that John 37 00:01:30,507 --> 00:01:32,217 and the whole prosecutorial team 38 00:01:32,258 --> 00:01:34,844 had everything they needed to put the case together. 39 00:01:34,886 --> 00:01:36,471 ♪♪ 40 00:01:36,554 --> 00:01:38,598 Michael Belcher: To break the monotony 41 00:01:38,682 --> 00:01:42,268 of sorting through 150,000 pages of discovery, 42 00:01:42,352 --> 00:01:45,063 we listened to a bunch of Bob's phone calls, 43 00:01:45,146 --> 00:01:47,899 and the jail calls were always fun to listen to. 44 00:01:47,982 --> 00:01:50,110 -It goes, you know, "Boop, boop, boop, boop." -(phone beeping) 45 00:01:50,193 --> 00:01:53,905 -operator: Hello. This is a prepaid call from... -Robert Durst (on phone): Bob! 46 00:01:53,947 --> 00:01:56,324 both (imitating): Bob! 47 00:01:56,366 --> 00:01:57,866 ♪♪ 48 00:01:57,951 --> 00:01:59,244 Michael Belcher: It was a little treat, 49 00:01:59,327 --> 00:02:02,163 especially when he was talking to his wife Debrah. 50 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,542 (Durst on phone) 51 00:02:16,678 --> 00:02:19,264 Debrah Lee Charatan (on phone): I know. 52 00:02:36,031 --> 00:02:37,240 (Charatan laughs) 53 00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:46,541 (dramatic crescendo) 54 00:02:46,624 --> 00:02:49,836 ("Survivor" by Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats playing) 55 00:02:50,545 --> 00:02:52,797 ♪ Well, you just think that I'm ♪ 56 00:02:55,300 --> 00:02:57,344 ♪ Some great survivor ♪ 57 00:02:59,137 --> 00:03:00,305 (static) 58 00:03:00,388 --> 00:03:02,265 ♪ And you just build upon ♪ 59 00:03:05,018 --> 00:03:07,604 ♪ The light to carry you ♪ 60 00:03:07,645 --> 00:03:10,440 (shutter snapping) 61 00:03:10,482 --> 00:03:12,942 ♪ Well, I don't even talk that way ♪ 62 00:03:12,984 --> 00:03:14,903 ♪ See, I wanted you to stay ♪ 63 00:03:14,986 --> 00:03:17,238 ♪ And show you the world's a better place ♪ 64 00:03:17,322 --> 00:03:18,740 (scuttling) 65 00:03:20,116 --> 00:03:21,951 ♪ And as we crawl to find our way ♪ 66 00:03:21,993 --> 00:03:25,954 ♪ We even take the shape of something else ♪ 67 00:03:28,333 --> 00:03:29,250 (shutter snaps) 68 00:03:29,668 --> 00:03:32,212 -♪ You think that I'm just ♪ -(gunshot) 69 00:03:34,381 --> 00:03:36,966 ♪ Some great survivor ♪ 70 00:03:39,344 --> 00:03:42,347 ♪ You think that I'm just ♪ 71 00:03:42,389 --> 00:03:44,182 (shutters snapping) 72 00:03:44,224 --> 00:03:46,726 ♪ Some great survivor ♪ 73 00:03:49,771 --> 00:03:53,441 ♪ I'm afraid that the weight of the world ♪ 74 00:03:53,525 --> 00:03:55,902 ♪ Is catching up with you ♪ 75 00:03:56,528 --> 00:03:59,572 ♪♪ 76 00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:02,325 (scuttling) 77 00:04:04,202 --> 00:04:06,287 (wind blowing) 78 00:04:10,375 --> 00:04:12,002 (tense music playing) 79 00:04:12,043 --> 00:04:14,379 (line ringing) 80 00:04:18,048 --> 00:04:19,551 (line ringing, phone picks up) 81 00:04:19,634 --> 00:04:23,555 (Lisa DePaulo and John Lewin speaking on phone) 82 00:04:26,725 --> 00:04:28,393 Habib Balian: When we first started the case, 83 00:04:28,435 --> 00:04:31,563 we didn't exactly know how all the cases interacted 84 00:04:31,604 --> 00:04:33,690 with each other and fit together. 85 00:04:34,733 --> 00:04:36,401 When someone's wife disappears, 86 00:04:36,484 --> 00:04:37,777 their best friend gets murdered, 87 00:04:37,861 --> 00:04:41,489 and their neighbor gets chopped up and thrown in a bay, 88 00:04:41,573 --> 00:04:43,783 assuming that the person did all of these crimes, 89 00:04:43,867 --> 00:04:45,909 generally you have an idea that they're gonna be interconnected 90 00:04:45,994 --> 00:04:47,912 in some way, but you don't know exactly how. 91 00:04:48,747 --> 00:04:50,707 (Lewin speaking) 92 00:04:56,087 --> 00:04:59,382 (DePaulo speaking) 93 00:05:05,263 --> 00:05:07,599 (curious music playing) 94 00:05:11,603 --> 00:05:14,606 John Lewin called and said, "Hi, you know, I'm... 95 00:05:14,689 --> 00:05:16,441 I'm the prosecutor in Susan Berman's--" 96 00:05:16,483 --> 00:05:19,402 And I was like, "Good. Good luck." 97 00:05:27,702 --> 00:05:30,455 (Lewin speaking) 98 00:05:30,497 --> 00:05:32,457 DePaulo: Right. 99 00:05:39,631 --> 00:05:41,299 When Bob has a friend, 100 00:05:41,383 --> 00:05:44,594 he expects blind loyalty. 101 00:05:44,636 --> 00:05:47,972 Like, unconditional loyalty. 102 00:05:48,014 --> 00:05:52,435 He expected his friends to, you know, toe the line. 103 00:05:53,144 --> 00:05:56,189 And a lot of them did for a long time. 104 00:05:56,606 --> 00:05:58,983 I think they were afraid of Bobby 105 00:05:59,025 --> 00:06:03,363 because a lot of people thought he could come and kill them 106 00:06:03,446 --> 00:06:05,865 and it wasn't an unreasonable fear. 107 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,455 So I knew that a lot of this was gonna rest on 108 00:06:12,497 --> 00:06:15,291 whether Bobby's loyalists 109 00:06:15,333 --> 00:06:18,420 would, essentially, "turn" on him. 110 00:06:18,503 --> 00:06:20,714 (line ringing) 111 00:06:23,341 --> 00:06:25,385 (line ringing) 112 00:06:25,677 --> 00:06:28,430 (Doug Oliver and Lewin speaking on phone) 113 00:06:33,935 --> 00:06:36,354 Lewin: I thought that people close to Bob 114 00:06:36,438 --> 00:06:39,232 would have damaging information. 115 00:06:39,315 --> 00:06:41,693 And if a witness has information, 116 00:06:41,735 --> 00:06:43,653 I'm gonna find a way to get it. 117 00:06:43,695 --> 00:06:47,449 (suspenseful music playing) 118 00:06:47,532 --> 00:06:50,243 Doug Oliver was a confident, 119 00:06:50,326 --> 00:06:52,746 man-about-town kinda guy. 120 00:06:53,538 --> 00:06:55,707 Doug Oliver was kind of, 121 00:06:55,790 --> 00:06:59,336 I think of him as a playboy back in the '80s 122 00:06:59,544 --> 00:07:03,256 and somebody who wanted to be a big shot. 123 00:07:03,340 --> 00:07:05,300 And he told me 124 00:07:05,383 --> 00:07:07,635 that not long after he met Bob, 125 00:07:07,719 --> 00:07:10,555 they got involved in a little real estate deal. 126 00:07:11,389 --> 00:07:12,891 They bought a tenement 127 00:07:12,974 --> 00:07:15,310 that Doug had found. 128 00:07:15,393 --> 00:07:17,354 Bob put up all the money, 129 00:07:17,395 --> 00:07:19,898 and then when they sold the building, 130 00:07:19,981 --> 00:07:23,234 Bob split the profit evenly with Doug, 131 00:07:23,318 --> 00:07:26,029 and that really endeared 132 00:07:26,071 --> 00:07:28,782 Bob to Doug. 133 00:07:29,407 --> 00:07:32,243 (Lewin speaking) 134 00:07:43,505 --> 00:07:45,590 (Oliver speaking) 135 00:08:01,606 --> 00:08:03,441 (argument fading out) 136 00:08:03,525 --> 00:08:05,985 He was extremely close to Bob. 137 00:08:06,069 --> 00:08:09,656 He was talking to Bob back in 1982, 138 00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:11,282 the week Kathie disappeared. 139 00:08:11,366 --> 00:08:12,784 ♪♪ 140 00:08:12,867 --> 00:08:17,122 He clearly knew information that he was hiding. 141 00:08:17,497 --> 00:08:20,959 And so, we wanted to, um, to speak to him. 142 00:08:24,629 --> 00:08:28,758 on January 31, 1982. 143 00:08:29,467 --> 00:08:31,720 I've got phone records 144 00:08:31,803 --> 00:08:35,932 that show Bob calls you February 3rd. 145 00:08:36,890 --> 00:08:38,559 So the question that I have was-- 146 00:08:38,601 --> 00:08:40,520 Oliver: I really don't wanna talk about the case. 147 00:08:40,602 --> 00:08:42,647 It upsets me. I don't wanna hear about it. 148 00:09:12,761 --> 00:09:16,890 He was the rudest witness I've ever encountered in my career. 149 00:09:52,676 --> 00:09:55,136 (investigator speaking) 150 00:09:56,805 --> 00:09:59,224 (Oliver speaking) 151 00:09:59,474 --> 00:10:01,810 (Lewin speaking) 152 00:10:03,228 --> 00:10:07,065 (indistinct arguing) 153 00:10:07,107 --> 00:10:08,358 (door slams) 154 00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:14,572 -(beep) -Durst (on phone): Doug? 155 00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:16,241 Oliver (on phone): Hey, Bob. I only have 156 00:10:16,282 --> 00:10:20,245 the fondest, greatest memories of you, okay? I mean, really. 157 00:10:20,328 --> 00:10:24,332 You were a good friend for-for-for the years we were together. 158 00:10:24,416 --> 00:10:26,292 No, no. You were a better friend. 159 00:10:26,376 --> 00:10:28,712 You were a better friend to me. 160 00:10:28,753 --> 00:10:31,589 Do you still go to-- 161 00:10:31,631 --> 00:10:34,300 What was the name of the Riviera on? 162 00:10:34,384 --> 00:10:37,095 -Oliver: Oh, Saint-Tropez? -Yes. 163 00:10:37,595 --> 00:10:39,639 Every other year, maybe every three years, 164 00:10:39,723 --> 00:10:41,224 I go to Saint-Tropez. 165 00:10:41,266 --> 00:10:43,935 It's not as much fun without you, put it that way. 166 00:10:43,977 --> 00:10:47,147 And at my age, most people, you know, are starting to retire. 167 00:10:47,230 --> 00:10:50,942 I'm busier now than I've ever been, and I'm having more fun. 168 00:10:51,026 --> 00:10:53,695 I really am. And I'm making more money, too, thank God. 169 00:10:54,195 --> 00:10:57,407 I thought you'd enjoy what fun I'm having. (laughs) You know? 170 00:10:57,782 --> 00:10:59,993 Anyway, Debbie says you look really good, 171 00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:02,954 -and she's right. -Oliver: Oh, well, thank you. 172 00:11:03,038 --> 00:11:06,124 I'm getting old though. Trust me. (laughs) 173 00:11:06,166 --> 00:11:07,959 Oh, I trust you. 174 00:11:10,253 --> 00:11:12,714 Bob clearly has these friends that are loyal to him 175 00:11:12,797 --> 00:11:15,967 who just don't wanna give him up. 176 00:11:16,968 --> 00:11:19,429 We wanted to get close to everybody and see what came up 177 00:11:19,471 --> 00:11:22,974 but we wanted to speak to Nick Chavin in particular. 178 00:11:23,016 --> 00:11:24,351 We didn't know exactly what he knew, 179 00:11:24,434 --> 00:11:27,312 but we knew he was very close to-to Robert Durst. 180 00:11:27,395 --> 00:11:28,980 (birds chirping) 181 00:11:29,064 --> 00:11:30,982 Nick Chavin (singing): ♪ Old Man River ♪ 182 00:11:31,649 --> 00:11:34,569 ♪ Old Man River ♪ 183 00:11:34,652 --> 00:11:36,696 ♪ He just keeps walkin' ♪ 184 00:11:36,780 --> 00:11:38,740 ♪ He keeps on walkin' ♪ 185 00:11:38,823 --> 00:11:41,659 ♪ He just keeps walkin' along ♪ 186 00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:43,745 ♪ Tote that barge, lift that bale ♪ 187 00:11:43,828 --> 00:11:44,954 (suitcase rattling) 188 00:11:44,996 --> 00:11:46,831 ♪ You gets a little drunk ♪ 189 00:11:46,915 --> 00:11:50,794 ♪ And you land in jail ♪ 190 00:11:54,005 --> 00:11:55,423 (groans) 191 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,012 What was the last thing I said? 192 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,475 ("Dry Humping In The Back of a '55 Ford" by Chinga Chavin playing) 193 00:12:05,517 --> 00:12:07,185 Ever since I can remember, 194 00:12:07,227 --> 00:12:09,646 all I've ever wanted was to be famous. 195 00:12:09,688 --> 00:12:11,272 (slide projector clicking) 196 00:12:11,356 --> 00:12:13,692 I formed a band and I became Chinga Chavin. 197 00:12:13,733 --> 00:12:16,861 (crowd cheering) 198 00:12:16,903 --> 00:12:18,738 And "chinga" is a Spanish phrase. 199 00:12:18,822 --> 00:12:20,532 -Are you aware of that? -Andrew Jarecki: No. 200 00:12:21,116 --> 00:12:24,869 Okay. The literal (laughs) translation is "fuck you." 201 00:12:24,953 --> 00:12:28,206 -(music continues) -(crowd cheering) 202 00:12:28,289 --> 00:12:30,583 I came up with a hook. 203 00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:33,920 Sexy and ribald country and western songs. 204 00:12:40,135 --> 00:12:42,595 It's more what you don't show 205 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,348 that creates the allure. 206 00:12:45,390 --> 00:12:46,433 (shutter snaps) 207 00:12:47,308 --> 00:12:49,936 Jarecki: When did you first hear Nick perform music? 208 00:12:50,020 --> 00:12:53,314 Ugh. Could we skip that? Really. 209 00:12:53,398 --> 00:12:57,736 I-- I'm not in the Chinga Chavin fan club. Let's get it down. 210 00:12:57,819 --> 00:13:00,447 ♪ You got a date, she's hot and pretty ♪ 211 00:13:00,530 --> 00:13:04,409 ♪ Even if you're only gonna get bare titty... ♪ 212 00:13:04,492 --> 00:13:06,786 Jarecki: Do you let him play music in the house? 213 00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:09,164 If I'm not in the house, yeah. 214 00:13:09,247 --> 00:13:10,540 (record hissing) 215 00:13:10,582 --> 00:13:13,251 (Jarecki speaking) 216 00:13:14,586 --> 00:13:15,462 (Nick Chavin speaking) 217 00:13:18,923 --> 00:13:21,092 ("Cum Stains on the Pillow" by Chinga Chavin playing) 218 00:13:21,134 --> 00:13:22,969 "Country Porn" was a much more powerful hook 219 00:13:23,053 --> 00:13:25,138 than I ever thought possible 220 00:13:25,221 --> 00:13:27,515 and the thing caught on immediately. 221 00:13:27,599 --> 00:13:31,269 (singing along to record) ♪ I'm makin' the cum stains on my pillow ♪ 222 00:13:31,311 --> 00:13:35,273 ♪ Where your sweet head used to be ♪ 223 00:13:36,733 --> 00:13:38,276 The music's great. 224 00:13:38,318 --> 00:13:41,821 (singing along) ♪ Now, it's been said that for everyone ♪ 225 00:13:41,905 --> 00:13:45,158 ♪ There is somebody else ♪ 226 00:13:45,241 --> 00:13:46,534 (song continues) 227 00:13:46,618 --> 00:13:50,246 And then at some point, Susan Berman came to a performance 228 00:13:50,288 --> 00:13:52,999 and she wrote some reviews of my act. 229 00:13:53,540 --> 00:13:57,671 She liked it, and she was a powerful journalist then. 230 00:13:57,754 --> 00:14:02,634 So Susan and I became friends through promoting my career. 231 00:14:02,676 --> 00:14:05,720 She taught me how to live wealthily 232 00:14:05,804 --> 00:14:08,223 in-in Manhattan. 233 00:14:08,306 --> 00:14:10,684 I didn't have the faintest fucking idea. 234 00:14:10,767 --> 00:14:12,644 ♪ 'Cause I'm savin' myself ♪ 235 00:14:12,686 --> 00:14:14,813 ♪ For a title role ♪ 236 00:14:14,854 --> 00:14:17,816 ♪ In a wet dream tragedy ♪ 237 00:14:18,483 --> 00:14:22,487 Once, we went to a restaurant, Elaine's. 238 00:14:22,529 --> 00:14:25,281 I was in my, uh, stage clothes. 239 00:14:25,323 --> 00:14:28,743 I had cowboy boots, and I had a Western shirt 240 00:14:28,827 --> 00:14:31,246 and rhinestone pants that matched it. 241 00:14:32,497 --> 00:14:34,374 People were stopping by and talking to us 242 00:14:34,457 --> 00:14:37,460 and Susan said to me, "Chinga, they think you're really famous. 243 00:14:37,502 --> 00:14:41,464 They have no idea (laughs) you're not really famous." 244 00:14:41,506 --> 00:14:44,092 And she said, "Just play it up." 245 00:14:44,175 --> 00:14:46,177 She really was a hoot. 246 00:14:46,261 --> 00:14:48,179 ♪ On the pillow where your sweet head used to be ♪ 247 00:14:48,221 --> 00:14:49,848 "Chinga!" She always talked like that. 248 00:14:49,931 --> 00:14:52,183 (high voice) "I wanna introduce you to a really good friend of mine. 249 00:14:52,267 --> 00:14:54,686 He's my best friend, Bob Durst." 250 00:14:54,769 --> 00:14:59,024 ♪ Where your sweet head used to ♪ 251 00:14:59,107 --> 00:15:02,736 ♪ Be... ♪ 252 00:15:02,819 --> 00:15:05,030 (guitar strums finale) 253 00:15:05,071 --> 00:15:08,867 We were an immediate attraction like two magnets. 254 00:15:09,284 --> 00:15:11,953 And she said something to the effect like, 255 00:15:12,037 --> 00:15:15,457 "Well, now you two naughty boys can have fun." 256 00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:17,709 God, was that ever true. 257 00:15:17,751 --> 00:15:21,129 You look very defiant in this picture. You look kinda bad ass. 258 00:15:21,212 --> 00:15:23,715 Yeah, I think I was. That was just a natural phase, 259 00:15:23,798 --> 00:15:26,926 the two of us. I mean, we were really a two-man brotherhood. 260 00:15:27,010 --> 00:15:29,888 (mysterious music playing) 261 00:15:29,971 --> 00:15:33,141 Bob's closest friend in the world was Susan Berman. 262 00:15:33,224 --> 00:15:36,770 (shutter snaps, film camera winding) 263 00:15:36,853 --> 00:15:39,439 And Nick Chavin was second. 264 00:15:39,522 --> 00:15:43,068 -(snapping, winding) -And the three of them were very close. 265 00:15:43,818 --> 00:15:46,363 So, I started trying to contact Nick. 266 00:15:46,446 --> 00:15:48,365 (tense music playing) 267 00:15:48,406 --> 00:15:50,617 John Lewin was calling me every day. 268 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:52,327 (phone ringing) 269 00:15:53,661 --> 00:15:55,205 (phone ringing) 270 00:15:55,246 --> 00:15:57,123 But Nick was clearly ducking us. 271 00:15:57,207 --> 00:15:58,249 (clicks) 272 00:15:58,708 --> 00:16:00,251 He's a little bit like Bob. 273 00:16:00,293 --> 00:16:02,921 Nick doesn't wanna talk to you, you're not gonna get him. 274 00:16:03,171 --> 00:16:04,923 I figured I could control him. 275 00:16:05,006 --> 00:16:07,467 I'd never had anyone really control me. 276 00:16:07,967 --> 00:16:09,552 I control. 277 00:16:10,095 --> 00:16:12,389 I didn't want any part of talking to him. 278 00:16:12,430 --> 00:16:15,308 My instincts are to avoid the cops. 279 00:16:16,643 --> 00:16:18,186 (hangs up) 280 00:16:18,269 --> 00:16:20,647 Bob and I had a contempt for the law 281 00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:22,399 and for society and for rules. 282 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,569 That was part of what bonded us together. 283 00:16:26,611 --> 00:16:28,196 (Jarecki speaking) 284 00:16:31,408 --> 00:16:34,411 Well, it wasn't treated like a crime. 285 00:16:34,452 --> 00:16:37,288 It was just treated like a, a mystery. 286 00:16:38,581 --> 00:16:39,457 And I felt on the side 287 00:16:39,540 --> 00:16:41,710 of protecting Bob all the way through. 288 00:16:41,793 --> 00:16:43,336 (siren wailing) 289 00:16:43,420 --> 00:16:46,631 My relationship with Kathie did not run that deep. 290 00:16:48,591 --> 00:16:51,136 I knew Kathie, but I didn't love Kathie that way, 291 00:16:51,219 --> 00:16:55,306 didn't have the time to have a mature love for her. 292 00:16:55,390 --> 00:16:59,644 It was a lot like what Susan said to me when she was alive. 293 00:16:59,686 --> 00:17:01,146 She said, "Kathie's dead. 294 00:17:01,229 --> 00:17:02,939 "Nothing we can do can change that. 295 00:17:03,023 --> 00:17:05,316 "But, Bob's alive, and he's still our dear friend, 296 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,237 and we owe it to him to protect him." 297 00:17:10,446 --> 00:17:12,531 (shutter snaps, camera clicking) 298 00:17:12,615 --> 00:17:14,701 He's a very difficult person to get to know 299 00:17:14,784 --> 00:17:17,494 but once you get to know him as a best friend, 300 00:17:17,579 --> 00:17:19,580 he can't let go of that. 301 00:17:19,664 --> 00:17:21,875 He was the smartest, and I've said this over and over, 302 00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:23,501 he's the smartest man I ever met. 303 00:17:24,877 --> 00:17:26,838 He was the best man at my wedding. 304 00:17:26,921 --> 00:17:30,258 ♪♪ 305 00:17:30,342 --> 00:17:32,010 There's never been anyone in my life 306 00:17:32,093 --> 00:17:35,347 that I ever felt as deeply about as Bob. 307 00:17:36,222 --> 00:17:38,016 And like him enormously. 308 00:17:38,099 --> 00:17:40,685 I'm indebted to him. 309 00:17:40,727 --> 00:17:43,438 (birds chirping) 310 00:17:43,521 --> 00:17:47,233 Nick felt a lot of loyalty to Bob. 311 00:17:47,317 --> 00:17:50,695 Bob had helped him get started in a career in New York. 312 00:17:50,779 --> 00:17:52,405 ♪♪ 313 00:17:52,489 --> 00:17:54,866 He was still trying to make it with his band 314 00:17:55,367 --> 00:17:58,787 but he soon realized he needed to get a day job. 315 00:18:00,246 --> 00:18:04,793 So, Nick got a job advertising 316 00:18:04,876 --> 00:18:08,213 for real estate projects. 317 00:18:08,296 --> 00:18:10,507 Jarecki: It's kind of amazing, right? You had, like, 318 00:18:10,548 --> 00:18:13,385 -a life as a guy with a coat and tie. -Yeah. 319 00:18:13,468 --> 00:18:15,428 -(phones ringing) -(camera flash, crowd cheering) 320 00:18:15,512 --> 00:18:18,640 Jarecki: And then you have this, like, rocker life. 321 00:18:19,349 --> 00:18:21,893 And never the twain shall meet. 322 00:18:22,268 --> 00:18:24,187 We tried to keep them apart. 323 00:18:24,229 --> 00:18:27,482 -(traffic noise) -(upbeat music playing) 324 00:18:29,651 --> 00:18:31,903 Bob calls him up one day and says, "Hey. 325 00:18:31,945 --> 00:18:33,530 "You wanna represent us 326 00:18:33,571 --> 00:18:38,243 on our new office tower on Sixth Avenue?" 327 00:18:38,284 --> 00:18:40,704 And it was a career maker for Nick. 328 00:18:42,414 --> 00:18:44,374 Nick Chavin: He gave me my business career, 329 00:18:44,416 --> 00:18:47,544 the whole thing, on a platter. 330 00:18:47,585 --> 00:18:52,173 I was just another shlub in New York City. 331 00:18:52,257 --> 00:18:55,885 But having the Durst organization as your client, 332 00:18:57,345 --> 00:18:59,097 they're fucking one of the biggest clients 333 00:18:59,180 --> 00:19:01,307 in real estate advertising. 334 00:19:01,641 --> 00:19:04,269 They spent a few million dollars a year. 335 00:19:07,981 --> 00:19:09,649 (quiet office noise) 336 00:19:09,733 --> 00:19:12,986 Lewin: Nick Chavin wouldn't return my calls. 337 00:19:13,236 --> 00:19:16,072 So finally, I reached out to, if I remember, 338 00:19:16,114 --> 00:19:17,991 like, the head of his firm. 339 00:19:18,074 --> 00:19:19,951 (knocking on glass) 340 00:19:19,993 --> 00:19:23,121 Nick Chavin: One day, my boss came into my office 341 00:19:23,163 --> 00:19:26,166 with a yellow stickie on his finger. 342 00:19:26,249 --> 00:19:27,917 I'll never forget this. 343 00:19:28,793 --> 00:19:30,628 I don't know what Lewin told him on the phone, 344 00:19:30,712 --> 00:19:33,131 but it was clear that all hell was gonna break loose 345 00:19:33,214 --> 00:19:34,549 if I didn't take his call. 346 00:19:34,632 --> 00:19:37,844 -(curious music playing) -(opens door) 347 00:19:40,972 --> 00:19:43,016 (Lewin speaking) 348 00:19:43,475 --> 00:19:44,809 (Nick Chavin speaking) 349 00:20:00,575 --> 00:20:04,579 Well, I'm in advertising, professional liars. (laughs) 350 00:20:09,501 --> 00:20:12,504 (laughs) It's hard to admit you're lying to the DA. 351 00:20:13,672 --> 00:20:16,508 I think he said he's a cold case specialist 352 00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:19,052 working on the Durst case. 353 00:20:19,135 --> 00:20:22,847 (Lewin speaking) 354 00:20:37,195 --> 00:20:39,280 Nick easily coulda said, "No," 355 00:20:39,364 --> 00:20:40,615 "I don't know," 356 00:20:40,699 --> 00:20:44,119 or, "I don't think that Bob killed Susan." 357 00:20:44,202 --> 00:20:46,871 And what Nick said is... 358 00:20:46,913 --> 00:20:49,249 (Nick Chavin speaking) 359 00:20:52,877 --> 00:20:56,297 -(beeping) -operator (phone): Hello. This is a prepaid call from... 360 00:20:56,381 --> 00:20:58,591 -Durst (on phone): Bob! -(beep) 361 00:20:59,551 --> 00:21:00,927 (Nick Chavin speaking) 362 00:21:09,060 --> 00:21:10,770 (Nick Chavin laughs) 363 00:21:58,026 --> 00:22:00,987 (quiet street noise) 364 00:22:01,071 --> 00:22:03,323 (gentle music playing) 365 00:22:03,406 --> 00:22:05,033 (echoing car door opening) 366 00:22:07,827 --> 00:22:09,204 (car driving by) 367 00:22:09,287 --> 00:22:11,331 (Nick Chavin speaking) 368 00:22:18,922 --> 00:22:21,424 (Durst speaking) 369 00:22:30,642 --> 00:22:33,561 Lewin: I did not know what Nick knew 370 00:22:33,645 --> 00:22:36,898 but I thought that he had very damaging information 371 00:22:36,981 --> 00:22:41,069 and that he was conflicted about it and wasn't ready to talk. 372 00:22:42,612 --> 00:22:44,072 And so, in the meantime, 373 00:22:44,155 --> 00:22:45,782 I tried to talk to other people. 374 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,994 Susie Giordano was a woman 375 00:22:50,036 --> 00:22:52,080 who worked for Nick Chavin 376 00:22:52,163 --> 00:22:54,916 in the advertising agency. 377 00:22:57,419 --> 00:22:59,879 -(beep) -Hi! 378 00:22:59,963 --> 00:23:02,632 Hey. How are you? 379 00:23:02,674 --> 00:23:05,343 My goodness, you're really there. 380 00:23:05,385 --> 00:23:08,847 -(soft music playing) -(laughs) I am. 381 00:23:08,888 --> 00:23:11,141 -I am. How are you? -Durst: So... 382 00:23:11,182 --> 00:23:13,184 Lewin: She functioned as 383 00:23:13,268 --> 00:23:15,895 Bob's pen pal slash girlfriend 384 00:23:15,979 --> 00:23:18,523 slash Girl Friday. 385 00:23:18,606 --> 00:23:21,234 I don't know what that thing is back there. 386 00:23:22,027 --> 00:23:26,448 Oh. That's where I do my ladies' push-ups. 387 00:23:27,490 --> 00:23:28,700 (mouthing) 388 00:23:32,704 --> 00:23:36,541 (giggling) 389 00:23:37,375 --> 00:23:39,711 Lewin (on recording): So, kinda if we go to the beginning, 390 00:23:39,753 --> 00:23:42,589 tell me how did you meet Bob Durst? 391 00:23:43,048 --> 00:23:46,718 Susie Giordano (on recording): I met Bob through my boss, Nick Chavin. 392 00:23:49,554 --> 00:23:52,724 (Lewin speaking) 393 00:23:59,314 --> 00:24:01,399 Bob looked perfect all the time. 394 00:24:01,441 --> 00:24:04,736 He was confident. He's very charming. 395 00:24:04,778 --> 00:24:08,031 He has a very, very, very charming side. 396 00:24:09,407 --> 00:24:10,825 You know, when you're in your early 20s, 397 00:24:10,909 --> 00:24:14,537 he was in his early 40s, and I was single. 398 00:24:14,579 --> 00:24:18,041 And we came from two entirely different worlds. 399 00:24:19,793 --> 00:24:22,587 At the time, I was the youngest in the agency. 400 00:24:22,629 --> 00:24:24,506 Of course, the partner used to say, 401 00:24:24,589 --> 00:24:26,925 "You don't mix business and pleasure," but... 402 00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:27,801 (sniffles) 403 00:24:28,176 --> 00:24:31,262 I was the type that if someone says you can't have it, 404 00:24:31,346 --> 00:24:32,305 you want it. 405 00:24:32,389 --> 00:24:33,932 (mysterious music playing) 406 00:24:33,973 --> 00:24:37,352 Nick Chavin: Susan Giordano. Susie G. was friendly. 407 00:24:37,435 --> 00:24:39,437 She was personable. 408 00:24:39,521 --> 00:24:43,024 We sort of hired her 'cause we needed a flunky 409 00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:46,319 and her ability to flirt was endless. 410 00:24:46,778 --> 00:24:49,197 -(echoing laugh) -She comes to me one day, and she says, 411 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,575 "Nick, can you introduce me to some of your rich friends?" 412 00:24:53,243 --> 00:24:55,578 I certainly didn't wanna introduce her to my friends, 413 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:57,872 but she kept bugging me to do it. 414 00:24:58,790 --> 00:25:01,668 She had a hoarse voice, and she was fond of saying, 415 00:25:01,751 --> 00:25:04,754 "If you get me a date with him, I'll make him a happy man." 416 00:25:05,797 --> 00:25:08,800 (laughs) I figured Bob would like her. 417 00:25:08,883 --> 00:25:11,136 ♪♪ 418 00:25:15,015 --> 00:25:17,142 Durst (on phone): You are the woman 419 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,728 who I think could have, 420 00:25:19,811 --> 00:25:22,188 and definitely should have, 421 00:25:22,272 --> 00:25:25,859 married a long time ago. 422 00:25:31,072 --> 00:25:33,324 Giordano (on phone): I love you. I miss you a lot. I really love you-- 423 00:25:33,366 --> 00:25:37,370 Durst (high-pitched): And I love you, love you, love you. 424 00:25:37,454 --> 00:25:39,581 Giordano (on phone): I know it's gonna be a happy ending. 425 00:25:39,664 --> 00:25:41,624 I told you, it's gotta be. 426 00:25:41,666 --> 00:25:43,585 I think we both deserve it. 427 00:25:48,340 --> 00:25:49,883 (Durst speaking) 428 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,267 (Giordano speaking) 429 00:26:05,523 --> 00:26:06,983 Now, here I am. 430 00:26:07,025 --> 00:26:09,194 I have so much love to give, you know? 431 00:26:09,277 --> 00:26:12,197 Whether it's your kids, your family, your animals, 432 00:26:12,238 --> 00:26:13,782 there's just so much. 433 00:26:14,115 --> 00:26:17,243 And I used to think that he was missing all of it. 434 00:26:18,536 --> 00:26:20,705 (beep) -(Durst speaking) 435 00:26:47,273 --> 00:26:48,316 (beep) 436 00:26:49,651 --> 00:26:51,152 Durst: Hi. 437 00:27:09,921 --> 00:27:12,007 Giordano: I don't think Debbie's a trusting person. 438 00:27:12,090 --> 00:27:15,093 I don't think she's really gonna trust anybody. 439 00:27:16,094 --> 00:27:19,472 So, she doesn't give anyone the chance. 440 00:27:19,556 --> 00:27:23,101 A chance to know who you are. 441 00:27:57,469 --> 00:27:59,095 (investigator speaking) 442 00:28:02,807 --> 00:28:05,143 It was easy to be his friend. 443 00:28:05,185 --> 00:28:08,271 He was somebody that you knew would be there 444 00:28:08,313 --> 00:28:10,648 and I was there for him. 445 00:28:10,732 --> 00:28:13,985 But, I'm a loyal person, normally, 446 00:28:14,069 --> 00:28:18,031 to people that I feel deserve that. 447 00:28:20,116 --> 00:28:22,327 (Lewin speaking) 448 00:28:31,670 --> 00:28:33,171 (Giordano speaking) 449 00:28:36,591 --> 00:28:38,176 Jarecki: Even though you knew 450 00:28:38,218 --> 00:28:40,512 he had dismembered Morris Black, 451 00:28:40,553 --> 00:28:43,181 that was not a boundary for you? 452 00:28:43,807 --> 00:28:45,934 I don't... 453 00:28:46,017 --> 00:28:48,395 maybe I watch too much "Criminal Minds," 454 00:28:48,478 --> 00:28:51,523 but I-I don't know 455 00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:54,734 what anybody would do in a situation, 456 00:28:54,818 --> 00:28:57,987 so I... sometimes, it's-- Do I understand it? No. 457 00:28:59,572 --> 00:29:01,199 Jarecki: So, Nick, did it bother you 458 00:29:01,282 --> 00:29:03,702 when you found out what he had done in Galveston? 459 00:29:04,369 --> 00:29:07,205 Well, what isn't in my mind is, "Jesus Christ! 460 00:29:07,247 --> 00:29:09,916 He cut up Morris Black and got away with it!" 461 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,712 That just wasn't-- It just didn't have any impact on me. 462 00:29:13,795 --> 00:29:15,422 ♪♪ 463 00:29:16,673 --> 00:29:18,633 I don't have that same moral 464 00:29:18,717 --> 00:29:22,220 hatred of murder and murderers. 465 00:29:24,556 --> 00:29:26,224 ♪♪ 466 00:29:29,019 --> 00:29:30,353 Giordano: You're speculating. 467 00:29:30,395 --> 00:29:32,939 Anything is possible. Anything could've happened. 468 00:29:33,023 --> 00:29:35,525 Maybe it is the way he said it was. 469 00:29:35,567 --> 00:29:38,778 Who's to say? No one else was there. 470 00:29:41,281 --> 00:29:44,200 Lewin: Susie Giordano is very interesting. 471 00:29:44,242 --> 00:29:47,412 She plays like she doesn't know what's going on, 472 00:29:47,495 --> 00:29:51,583 yet she tried to help Bob while he was on the run. 473 00:29:52,083 --> 00:29:54,085 -(mysterious music playing) -(bags zipping) 474 00:29:54,169 --> 00:29:56,046 When Bob got arrested in New Orleans, 475 00:29:57,589 --> 00:30:00,383 the last thing that they find 476 00:30:00,425 --> 00:30:02,802 is a UPS tracking number. 477 00:30:02,886 --> 00:30:06,556 They go down to UPS, they intercept the package, 478 00:30:07,307 --> 00:30:10,518 and it's a package from Susie Giordano. 479 00:30:11,895 --> 00:30:14,773 (Giordano on recording) 480 00:30:14,939 --> 00:30:15,982 (investigator on recording) 481 00:30:16,066 --> 00:30:18,026 (Giordano speaking) 482 00:30:19,277 --> 00:30:21,821 (Lewin speaking) 483 00:30:43,301 --> 00:30:44,761 Lewin: And when they open it, 484 00:30:44,803 --> 00:30:47,639 stuffed in there is over $100,000. 485 00:30:47,722 --> 00:30:49,891 ♪♪ 486 00:30:57,899 --> 00:30:59,943 (Giordano speaking) 487 00:31:12,122 --> 00:31:13,915 Jarecki: But, you knew there was some money in the bag. 488 00:31:13,998 --> 00:31:15,875 But how much could've been in there? Figured, 489 00:31:15,959 --> 00:31:17,669 I don't know, $1,000, if anything. 490 00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:21,131 You didn't think that he was gonna go on the run 491 00:31:21,172 --> 00:31:23,216 -and might not come back? -No! Not at all. Not at all. 492 00:31:23,299 --> 00:31:26,302 -Jarecki: There was no talk about Cuba, or he's gonna-- -Never. 493 00:31:30,223 --> 00:31:32,684 Lewin: It turns out that when you have 494 00:31:32,726 --> 00:31:34,185 a whole lotta money, 495 00:31:34,227 --> 00:31:38,231 people are willing to do things for you 496 00:31:38,314 --> 00:31:42,444 because they think some of that money might go their way. 497 00:31:42,527 --> 00:31:45,530 (curious music playing) 498 00:31:46,823 --> 00:31:48,366 (Durst speaking) 499 00:31:49,951 --> 00:31:52,162 (Giordano speaking) 500 00:32:00,795 --> 00:32:03,131 (laughs) 501 00:32:13,266 --> 00:32:15,560 ♪♪ 502 00:32:28,698 --> 00:32:31,826 David Chesnoff: We're all doing the same thing, as the prosecution. 503 00:32:31,910 --> 00:32:33,119 We divvied up the witnesses. 504 00:32:33,203 --> 00:32:35,163 There were hundreds of, you know, hundreds of 'em. 505 00:32:35,246 --> 00:32:37,582 This was a very long proceeding 506 00:32:37,665 --> 00:32:40,543 with lots of witnesses and lots of moving parts. 507 00:32:42,128 --> 00:32:44,547 Charles Bagli: I think that both the prosecution 508 00:32:44,589 --> 00:32:45,674 and the defense 509 00:32:45,757 --> 00:32:48,176 wanted to be close 510 00:32:48,259 --> 00:32:50,887 to Bob's small group of friends. 511 00:32:50,929 --> 00:32:54,516 And when they were called in to account 512 00:32:54,557 --> 00:32:56,935 for themselves and for Bob, 513 00:32:56,976 --> 00:33:00,647 they did everything they could to shield him. 514 00:33:00,730 --> 00:33:02,941 (electronic static, beep) 515 00:33:03,024 --> 00:33:04,609 Oliver (on phone): Hi, Bob. Can you hear me? 516 00:33:04,693 --> 00:33:08,822 Durst (high-pitched): I can hear you. Sit up straight. 517 00:33:08,905 --> 00:33:10,573 C-Can you see me? Where-- There. 518 00:33:10,615 --> 00:33:13,284 Durst: There. You look like Doug Oliver now. 519 00:33:13,326 --> 00:33:15,078 Okay. Yeah, I can't see all your face. 520 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,205 Can you move so I can see your face? 521 00:33:17,288 --> 00:33:19,457 Ah, much better. Oh, you got a beard! 522 00:33:19,541 --> 00:33:21,292 (laughs) Nice. 523 00:33:21,334 --> 00:33:23,962 Yeah, your attorney called and said that 524 00:33:24,004 --> 00:33:25,463 you would like me to come visit, 525 00:33:25,505 --> 00:33:28,133 which I was really happy that you-- 526 00:33:28,174 --> 00:33:31,428 sent a message to me. Man, that was very nice. 527 00:33:31,803 --> 00:33:35,932 Durst (normal voice): Oh, I very, very, very, very, very much appreciate 528 00:33:35,974 --> 00:33:38,810 that you're gonna go and testify for me. 529 00:33:39,394 --> 00:33:42,981 All that we need you to talk about 530 00:33:43,023 --> 00:33:45,942 is how you remember Kathie Durst. 531 00:33:46,026 --> 00:33:48,361 Oliver: Now, we can't talk about the case, okay? 532 00:33:48,445 --> 00:33:50,905 Your-Your lawyer told me I shouldn't talk about the case. 533 00:33:50,989 --> 00:33:53,324 -Don't wanna get you in trouble. -Durst: Okay, let's just talk 534 00:33:53,366 --> 00:33:56,494 about Nick Chavin a little bit. 535 00:33:56,536 --> 00:34:00,290 Bagli: Bob was really nervous about Nick Chavin 536 00:34:00,331 --> 00:34:04,502 because Nick had not been super outspoken 537 00:34:04,586 --> 00:34:07,130 in all of this, one way or the other, 538 00:34:07,172 --> 00:34:10,592 and he had become somewhat elusive. 539 00:34:10,675 --> 00:34:13,428 (mysterious music playing) 540 00:34:13,511 --> 00:34:16,014 Dick DeGuerin: I knew that Nick was a potential witness 541 00:34:16,097 --> 00:34:19,726 because he and Bob had been good friends. 542 00:34:20,185 --> 00:34:23,228 Went to his office and tried to talk to him. 543 00:34:26,274 --> 00:34:28,193 Nick Chavin: I didn't wanna meet with him and talk, 544 00:34:28,275 --> 00:34:30,820 so I hid in the stairwell in back (laughs) 545 00:34:30,862 --> 00:34:32,655 like a fugitive. 546 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,576 I would have been afraid of what I might say. 547 00:34:37,869 --> 00:34:40,455 I'm not gonna hurt him. I'm not gonna do anything 548 00:34:40,538 --> 00:34:43,123 except ask him what he's gonna say. 549 00:34:43,208 --> 00:34:45,210 (clock ticking) 550 00:34:45,293 --> 00:34:47,712 Waited there an hour or so. 551 00:34:47,754 --> 00:34:49,380 Got tired. 552 00:34:51,216 --> 00:34:52,842 So I left. 553 00:34:55,136 --> 00:34:56,221 (Durst speaking) 554 00:35:00,892 --> 00:35:02,686 (echoing door shuts) 555 00:35:31,631 --> 00:35:35,051 Nick Chavin: I didn't wanna get involved in this trial. 556 00:35:35,093 --> 00:35:39,055 But I've never abandoned my feelings for Bob, 557 00:35:39,097 --> 00:35:42,934 which just drives my wife up the walls. 558 00:35:42,976 --> 00:35:44,227 (shutter snaps) 559 00:35:44,269 --> 00:35:46,688 Terry Chavin: Nick believed Bob 560 00:35:46,771 --> 00:35:49,441 and was, you know, his loyal friend. 561 00:35:49,482 --> 00:35:52,318 Nick seemed to be so under his spell, 562 00:35:52,402 --> 00:35:54,946 you know, even in spite of the whole, you know, 563 00:35:54,988 --> 00:35:57,449 the-- all these murders. 564 00:35:57,907 --> 00:36:00,952 Terry's, like, smart. (laughs) 565 00:36:00,994 --> 00:36:03,288 And from the very beginning, 566 00:36:03,329 --> 00:36:06,916 Terry felt Bobby killed Kathie 567 00:36:06,958 --> 00:36:08,460 and Bobby killed Susan. 568 00:36:08,543 --> 00:36:10,462 And she was very frustrated 569 00:36:10,545 --> 00:36:12,505 that Nick wasn't coming on board. 570 00:36:12,589 --> 00:36:16,551 -(tense music playing) -(dial tone) 571 00:36:16,634 --> 00:36:20,472 (Lewin speaking) 572 00:36:24,476 --> 00:36:26,186 Lewin: At a certain point in time, 573 00:36:26,269 --> 00:36:29,689 Nick Chavin's wife Terry contacted us, 574 00:36:29,773 --> 00:36:32,942 and basically told us 575 00:36:32,984 --> 00:36:37,447 that Nick had more information than what he was saying. 576 00:36:38,323 --> 00:36:41,910 (Terry Chavin speaking) 577 00:36:46,748 --> 00:36:48,917 (Lewin speaking) 578 00:36:57,342 --> 00:36:59,386 Terry Chavin: I was so frustrated with Nick. 579 00:36:59,469 --> 00:37:02,347 He believed Bob for so many years. He was so loyal. 580 00:37:24,577 --> 00:37:26,329 ♪♪ 581 00:37:26,371 --> 00:37:29,874 I met Debrah in, like, '87 or '88. 582 00:37:30,542 --> 00:37:32,961 There was some kind of double date or something. 583 00:37:34,129 --> 00:37:37,132 She was a force. She was very... 584 00:37:37,215 --> 00:37:39,843 a strong woman, I guess you'd say. 585 00:37:41,511 --> 00:37:43,555 Jarecki: And did you think, like, strong, "Hm, interesting?" 586 00:37:43,638 --> 00:37:45,849 Or did you think strong like, "Ah!"? 587 00:37:45,890 --> 00:37:48,560 Mm, second reaction, yeah. 588 00:37:49,227 --> 00:37:51,271 (Lewin speaking) 589 00:37:54,024 --> 00:37:55,900 (Terry Chavin speaking) 590 00:38:06,661 --> 00:38:08,204 (Terry Chavin sighs on phone) 591 00:38:08,246 --> 00:38:11,458 I had a desk at Debrah's firm. 592 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,463 It was a really bad time in my life. Let me put it that way. 593 00:38:16,546 --> 00:38:18,506 I didn't really wanna work there. 594 00:38:18,590 --> 00:38:20,800 -(office chatter) -(typewriter clicking) 595 00:38:20,884 --> 00:38:23,178 Bagli: In the 1980s, 596 00:38:23,261 --> 00:38:25,764 Debbie opened a real estate firm. 597 00:38:26,931 --> 00:38:29,851 She hired smart, 598 00:38:29,934 --> 00:38:32,771 attractive women 599 00:38:32,854 --> 00:38:35,440 -to work for her. -(phones ringing) 600 00:38:35,482 --> 00:38:39,277 Real estate was very male-oriented at that time. 601 00:38:39,361 --> 00:38:42,781 It was a very smart marketing ploy 602 00:38:42,822 --> 00:38:46,785 to be the first all-female firm, 603 00:38:46,826 --> 00:38:50,914 and Debbie got a lot of notoriety for it. 604 00:38:50,955 --> 00:38:54,459 (gentle music playing) 605 00:38:54,542 --> 00:38:57,879 (Terry Chavin speaking) 606 00:39:01,591 --> 00:39:04,302 There was a part of her that didn't understand, 607 00:39:04,386 --> 00:39:05,637 in business you have to-- you know, 608 00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:08,056 you don't treat people a certain way, so... 609 00:39:13,228 --> 00:39:15,730 It was just bizarre, the whole thing. 610 00:39:17,941 --> 00:39:21,903 Nick Chavin: Debrah was fixated on having the Bach women 611 00:39:21,986 --> 00:39:24,114 represent purity 612 00:39:24,155 --> 00:39:26,282 and hygiene and to be attractive 613 00:39:26,324 --> 00:39:28,535 to the, predominantly, males 614 00:39:28,618 --> 00:39:30,829 who run the commercial real estate business. 615 00:39:31,538 --> 00:39:34,332 She had to make sure that her women, 616 00:39:34,374 --> 00:39:38,795 or "girls" as she called them, didn't smell. 617 00:39:38,837 --> 00:39:41,923 I don't know if it was once a week or twice a week, 618 00:39:42,007 --> 00:39:45,301 she would have them come to her office 619 00:39:45,385 --> 00:39:48,346 and raise their arms, baring their armpits. 620 00:39:48,430 --> 00:39:50,432 ♪♪ 621 00:39:50,515 --> 00:39:52,767 And she would walk along the row, 622 00:39:52,851 --> 00:39:55,186 like a Marine Corps drill sergeant. 623 00:39:56,229 --> 00:39:59,524 -She would sniff each one of them individually. -(sniffing) 624 00:40:00,483 --> 00:40:03,361 And, by God, they had to be odorless... 625 00:40:03,403 --> 00:40:05,488 (sniffs) 626 00:40:05,530 --> 00:40:07,782 ...or she'd send them home to bathe. 627 00:40:10,410 --> 00:40:12,537 Jarecki: Where did you hear that story? 628 00:40:12,579 --> 00:40:16,291 From Terry, who worked there and experienced it. 629 00:40:16,374 --> 00:40:19,085 It was not a comfortable place to be in. 630 00:40:22,547 --> 00:40:26,760 (operatic vocalizing, crescendo) 631 00:40:27,469 --> 00:40:28,678 (birds chirping) 632 00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:30,722 And then, Debrah had asked me 633 00:40:30,764 --> 00:40:34,142 to help Bob find a townhouse. 634 00:40:35,435 --> 00:40:37,437 This was after Galveston. 635 00:40:38,688 --> 00:40:40,732 He's got three murders under his belt, 636 00:40:40,815 --> 00:40:43,860 and he's walking around like everything's fine, 637 00:40:45,487 --> 00:40:48,114 which was really very uncomfortable. 638 00:40:48,865 --> 00:40:52,202 I just felt very unsafe around him, and... 639 00:40:52,577 --> 00:40:54,579 he was very unpredictable. 640 00:40:56,289 --> 00:40:59,834 When you have kids, it makes it even more scary. 641 00:41:02,962 --> 00:41:05,465 That's when I got the life insurance policy. 642 00:41:05,548 --> 00:41:07,676 So at least I would have my kids taken care of 643 00:41:07,759 --> 00:41:09,094 if anything happened to me. 644 00:41:11,346 --> 00:41:13,723 You know, whenever you have a certain amount of risk in your life, 645 00:41:13,765 --> 00:41:15,475 it makes sense to get that, 646 00:41:15,558 --> 00:41:17,811 you know, if you look at it like that way. 647 00:41:17,894 --> 00:41:20,772 And it just seemed like we c-- I couldn't get rid of him. 648 00:41:21,898 --> 00:41:23,608 (Lewin speaking) 649 00:41:34,119 --> 00:41:36,538 Terry Chavin: I was friendly towards them. 650 00:41:36,621 --> 00:41:38,623 I didn't want them to suspect me 651 00:41:38,707 --> 00:41:41,334 or think I was disloyal or anything like, you know, 652 00:41:41,418 --> 00:41:42,752 Susan was gonna be disloyal, 653 00:41:42,794 --> 00:41:44,462 and, you know, that was the end of that. 654 00:41:44,546 --> 00:41:46,131 ♪♪ 655 00:41:46,214 --> 00:41:49,843 Oof, this stuff is really-- I get sick thinking about it. 656 00:41:51,928 --> 00:41:54,973 (Lewin speaking) 657 00:42:07,110 --> 00:42:09,571 (Terry Chavin speaking) 658 00:42:24,252 --> 00:42:26,129 (quiet street noise) 659 00:42:26,171 --> 00:42:28,006 Terry Chavin: It was really obvious that 660 00:42:28,048 --> 00:42:30,008 something happened at that dinner. 661 00:42:30,050 --> 00:42:31,676 (restaurant chatter) 662 00:42:31,718 --> 00:42:34,721 Nick came home and was really angry. 663 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,307 He had to really... 664 00:42:38,266 --> 00:42:40,185 wake up, let's say. 665 00:42:43,772 --> 00:42:46,024 Lewin: And then, we called Nick, 666 00:42:46,066 --> 00:42:49,402 and Nick was basically ambushed with the fact 667 00:42:49,486 --> 00:42:52,781 that we knew what he had told his wife. 668 00:43:02,374 --> 00:43:03,708 (Nick Chavin speaking) 669 00:43:45,166 --> 00:43:46,751 (hangs up) 670 00:43:46,793 --> 00:43:48,753 What do you do when your best friend 671 00:43:48,837 --> 00:43:51,381 kills your other best friend? 672 00:43:51,423 --> 00:43:54,509 -(tense music playing) -(phone ringing) 673 00:43:55,427 --> 00:44:00,265 I mean, loyalty is due to Susan, but it's also due to Bob. 674 00:44:02,809 --> 00:44:06,479 (curious music playing) 675 00:44:06,563 --> 00:44:08,773 And Susan befriended my daughter 676 00:44:08,857 --> 00:44:11,443 and took care of my daughter and took care of us. 677 00:44:13,945 --> 00:44:16,781 Times I was with my first wife, not Terry. 678 00:44:17,824 --> 00:44:20,035 And Susan babysat for her 679 00:44:20,118 --> 00:44:22,078 when I was out late at night playing a gig. 680 00:44:26,624 --> 00:44:29,753 She was a mother to us. 681 00:44:29,794 --> 00:44:31,629 -(echoing shutter snaps) -To both of us. 682 00:44:31,671 --> 00:44:34,716 (film camera winding) 683 00:44:35,383 --> 00:44:39,512 This made me forever grateful to Susan Berman. 684 00:44:39,596 --> 00:44:41,806 (birds chirping) 685 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,018 (strumming) 686 00:44:45,101 --> 00:44:48,229 Lewin: Nick did not want to be involved in the case, 687 00:44:48,313 --> 00:44:50,815 and Nick hid from me for as long as he could. 688 00:44:51,649 --> 00:44:55,070 But I think he really wanted to do the right thing in his life. 689 00:44:55,111 --> 00:44:57,906 (thunder rumbling) 690 00:44:57,989 --> 00:45:01,201 (shuffling footsteps) 691 00:45:05,163 --> 00:45:08,416 Nick Chavin: Ultimately, I felt like I was being disloyal 692 00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:11,503 to Susan's memory and what I owed her by not... 693 00:45:12,837 --> 00:45:15,173 by not coming forth and telling him the truth. 694 00:45:15,215 --> 00:45:17,801 -(TV weather chatter) -(line ringing) 695 00:45:17,842 --> 00:45:20,095 (pillow thudding) 696 00:45:20,178 --> 00:45:22,389 (line ringing) 697 00:45:24,015 --> 00:45:25,767 (line ringing, answers) 698 00:45:27,352 --> 00:45:28,353 (Lewin speaking) 699 00:45:43,243 --> 00:45:44,869 (waves washing ashore) 700 00:45:44,911 --> 00:45:47,163 (seagulls cawing) 701 00:45:50,208 --> 00:45:52,919 Nick Chavin: It's hard for me to do this. 702 00:45:54,254 --> 00:45:56,297 (seagulls continue) 703 00:46:00,051 --> 00:46:02,220 No one's ever gotten as close 704 00:46:02,262 --> 00:46:05,849 to my heart and brain as Bob has. 705 00:46:05,890 --> 00:46:07,851 (chains rattling) 706 00:46:08,351 --> 00:46:10,854 It's hard to imagine the closeness. 707 00:46:10,895 --> 00:46:13,064 It just made me glow. 708 00:46:13,148 --> 00:46:14,774 ♪♪ 709 00:46:16,067 --> 00:46:19,529 I gotta stop being protective of Bob Durst. (sighs) 710 00:46:21,698 --> 00:46:23,908 Friendships die hard. 711 00:46:25,952 --> 00:46:30,165 ("Dirty Work" by Steely Dan playing) 712 00:46:36,588 --> 00:46:38,089 ♪ Times are hard ♪ 713 00:46:38,173 --> 00:46:41,217 ♪ You're afraid to pay the fee ♪ 714 00:46:41,259 --> 00:46:44,721 ♪ So you find yourself somebody ♪ 715 00:46:44,763 --> 00:46:48,975 ♪ Who can do the job for free... ♪ 716 00:46:49,768 --> 00:46:52,979 ♪ When you need a bit of lovin' ♪ 717 00:46:53,063 --> 00:46:56,149 ♪ 'Cause your man is out of town ♪ 718 00:46:56,232 --> 00:46:59,444 ♪ That's the time you get me runnin' ♪ 719 00:46:59,486 --> 00:47:03,907 ♪ And you know I'll be around... ♪ 720 00:47:05,283 --> 00:47:08,953 ♪ I'm a fool to do your dirty work ♪ 721 00:47:09,037 --> 00:47:11,873 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 722 00:47:11,956 --> 00:47:15,627 ♪ I don't wanna do your dirty work ♪ 723 00:47:15,710 --> 00:47:17,504 ♪ No more ♪ 724 00:47:18,338 --> 00:47:22,300 ♪ I'm a fool to do your dirty work ♪ 725 00:47:22,384 --> 00:47:24,135 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 726 00:47:28,515 --> 00:47:29,974 ♪ Light the candle ♪ 727 00:47:30,058 --> 00:47:33,228 ♪ Put the lock upon the door ♪ 728 00:47:33,311 --> 00:47:36,731 ♪ You have sent the maid home early ♪ 729 00:47:36,815 --> 00:47:40,819 ♪ Like a thousand times before ♪ 730 00:47:41,486 --> 00:47:44,823 ♪ Like the castle in its corner ♪ 731 00:47:44,906 --> 00:47:48,159 ♪ In a medieval game ♪ 732 00:47:48,201 --> 00:47:51,413 ♪ I foresee terrible trouble ♪ 733 00:47:51,496 --> 00:47:55,875 ♪ And I stay here just the same... ♪ 734 00:47:57,252 --> 00:48:01,047 ♪ I'm a fool to do your dirty work ♪ 735 00:48:01,131 --> 00:48:03,925 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 736 00:48:04,009 --> 00:48:07,554 ♪ I don't wanna do your dirty work ♪ 737 00:48:07,637 --> 00:48:09,639 ♪ No more ♪ 738 00:48:10,473 --> 00:48:14,310 ♪ I'm a fool to do your dirty work ♪ 739 00:48:14,352 --> 00:48:16,396 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 740 00:48:42,130 --> 00:48:45,800 ♪ I'm a fool to do your dirty work ♪ 741 00:48:45,884 --> 00:48:48,470 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 742 00:48:48,553 --> 00:48:52,474 ♪ I don't wanna do your dirty work ♪ 743 00:48:52,557 --> 00:48:54,059 ♪ No more ♪ 744 00:48:55,226 --> 00:48:58,897 ♪ I'm a fool to do your dirty work ♪ 745 00:48:58,938 --> 00:49:00,732 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 746 00:49:01,566 --> 00:49:05,403 ♪ I don't wanna do your dirty work ♪ 747 00:49:05,487 --> 00:49:07,364 ♪ No more ♪ 748 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,826 ♪ I'm a fool to do your dirty work ♪ 749 00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:13,912 ♪ Oh yeah ♪ 750 00:49:14,621 --> 00:49:18,458 ♪ I don't wanna do your dirty work ♪ 751 00:49:18,541 --> 00:49:20,418 ♪ No more... ♪