1 00:00:12,137 --> 00:00:15,306 -(car engine rumbling) -(snow splattering) 2 00:00:15,348 --> 00:00:18,393 ♪♪ 3 00:00:24,983 --> 00:00:27,277 Which one of those pictures is Kathie? 4 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,154 Kathie? Oh. 5 00:00:30,405 --> 00:00:32,656 This is Kathie. 6 00:00:33,616 --> 00:00:35,994 Jim McCormack: Hey, Mom? I don't remember seeing this picture, 7 00:00:36,077 --> 00:00:38,788 -like, for the life of me. -Oh, I have pictures laying all over the place. 8 00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:40,790 I'm looking at Kathie in this picture, 9 00:00:40,832 --> 00:00:43,752 and she was so elegant 10 00:00:43,835 --> 00:00:46,254 -to look at that here. -Oh, well, you can have it. 11 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:48,340 ♪♪ 12 00:00:49,841 --> 00:00:52,052 (Andrew Jarecki speaking) 13 00:00:54,679 --> 00:00:56,806 Well, they all miss her. 14 00:00:56,848 --> 00:00:58,975 That was sad. 15 00:00:59,017 --> 00:01:00,685 Very sad. 16 00:01:01,853 --> 00:01:03,688 Okay? 17 00:01:06,649 --> 00:01:08,860 Jim McCormack: We want closure on her disappearance. 18 00:01:09,527 --> 00:01:11,404 We could finally have a memorial service 19 00:01:11,488 --> 00:01:14,199 'cause we held off on doing a memorial service for Kathie 20 00:01:14,282 --> 00:01:16,743 because it's almost like giving up. 21 00:01:16,826 --> 00:01:20,246 We have got to have the patience to see it through. 22 00:01:21,206 --> 00:01:23,708 We're not gonna be judge, jury, and executioner. 23 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:27,212 That's somebody else's job. But, um, life... 24 00:01:27,295 --> 00:01:30,507 life'll go on for everybody at that point in time. 25 00:01:30,548 --> 00:01:33,259 ♪♪ 26 00:01:33,343 --> 00:01:34,844 (indistinct news chatter) 27 00:01:34,886 --> 00:01:38,181 reporter (on TV): So how do you take a case that is like-- 28 00:01:38,223 --> 00:01:39,933 it's the murder of Susan Berman, 29 00:01:40,015 --> 00:01:42,394 but everything dates back really to the disappearance 30 00:01:42,435 --> 00:01:45,104 of Kathie Durst. We're talking almost 40 years. 31 00:01:45,188 --> 00:01:48,108 All these years, Jim was obsessive. 32 00:01:48,191 --> 00:01:49,401 It got difficult for me, 33 00:01:49,484 --> 00:01:51,069 but even my family and friends were like, 34 00:01:51,152 --> 00:01:52,570 "What he's doing is the right thing. 35 00:01:52,612 --> 00:01:56,241 He's pursuing justice for Kathie." 36 00:01:56,324 --> 00:01:59,536 Jim McCormack: Emotionally, I'm here really for her, 37 00:01:59,577 --> 00:02:02,080 and for my mom, God rest her soul. 38 00:02:02,831 --> 00:02:06,292 We've waited all these years for justice. 39 00:02:06,835 --> 00:02:10,338 newscaster (TV): We have some breaking news in the Jinx murder trial. 40 00:02:10,422 --> 00:02:13,842 Defendant Robert Durst will take the stand 41 00:02:13,925 --> 00:02:16,052 in his own defense. 42 00:02:16,094 --> 00:02:18,596 This isn't the first time he's been on trial for murder. 43 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,099 We know the last one ended in an acquittal. 44 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:23,143 I'm still shaking my head on that one. 45 00:02:23,768 --> 00:02:26,187 Susan Criss (on TV): We the jury find the defendant, 46 00:02:26,271 --> 00:02:28,940 Robert Durst, not guilty. 47 00:02:30,066 --> 00:02:31,609 Jim McCormack: I still remember 48 00:02:31,693 --> 00:02:33,778 the verdict down in Galveston. 49 00:02:33,862 --> 00:02:36,281 I couldn't breathe for about a minute and a half. 50 00:02:36,364 --> 00:02:40,118 It was like... it was stunning. 51 00:02:40,201 --> 00:02:42,162 Absolutely stunning. 52 00:02:42,245 --> 00:02:45,457 (indistinct) 53 00:02:46,291 --> 00:02:49,878 You know, I have faith, but faith doesn't always, 54 00:02:49,961 --> 00:02:52,714 deliver justice. 55 00:02:52,797 --> 00:02:56,009 ("Survivor" by Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats playing) 56 00:02:56,718 --> 00:02:58,970 ♪ Well, you just think that I'm ♪ 57 00:03:01,473 --> 00:03:03,516 ♪ Some great survivor ♪ 58 00:03:05,518 --> 00:03:06,478 (static) 59 00:03:06,561 --> 00:03:08,438 ♪ And you just build upon ♪ 60 00:03:11,191 --> 00:03:13,777 ♪ The light to carry you ♪ 61 00:03:13,818 --> 00:03:16,613 (shutter snapping) 62 00:03:16,654 --> 00:03:19,115 ♪ Well, I don't even talk that way ♪ 63 00:03:19,157 --> 00:03:21,284 ♪ See, I wanted you to stay ♪ 64 00:03:21,326 --> 00:03:23,620 ♪ And show you the world's a better place ♪ 65 00:03:23,661 --> 00:03:24,913 (scuttling) 66 00:03:26,331 --> 00:03:28,333 ♪ And as we crawl to find our way ♪ 67 00:03:28,375 --> 00:03:32,337 ♪ We even take the shape of something else ♪ 68 00:03:34,714 --> 00:03:35,507 (shutter snaps) 69 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,385 -♪ You think that I'm just ♪ -(gunshot) 70 00:03:40,553 --> 00:03:43,348 ♪ Some great survivor ♪ 71 00:03:45,517 --> 00:03:48,687 ♪ You think that I'm just ♪ 72 00:03:48,770 --> 00:03:50,355 (shutters snapping) 73 00:03:50,397 --> 00:03:52,899 ♪ Some great survivor ♪ 74 00:03:55,944 --> 00:03:59,614 ♪ I'm afraid that the weight of the world ♪ 75 00:03:59,698 --> 00:04:02,283 ♪ Is catching up with you ♪ 76 00:04:02,701 --> 00:04:05,745 ♪♪ 77 00:04:06,746 --> 00:04:08,498 (scuttling) 78 00:04:10,375 --> 00:04:12,460 (wind blowing) 79 00:04:14,587 --> 00:04:16,214 (door opens) 80 00:04:16,255 --> 00:04:19,801 -(tense music playing) -(door slams) 81 00:04:19,884 --> 00:04:22,345 (lights clicking, buzzing) 82 00:04:26,057 --> 00:04:28,560 John Lewin: Bob is gonna testify in this case. 83 00:04:29,352 --> 00:04:31,312 And the reason Bob is gonna testify in this case 84 00:04:31,396 --> 00:04:34,524 is because it worked for him last time. 85 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:40,071 Bob made a fine witness in his own behalf in Galveston 86 00:04:40,739 --> 00:04:44,659 and the prosecutors there did not know what was coming. 87 00:04:44,701 --> 00:04:46,745 (door creaks open) 88 00:04:49,289 --> 00:04:51,249 Ethan Milius: When they stipulated to Bob 89 00:04:51,291 --> 00:04:53,418 having written the Cadaver Note, 90 00:04:53,460 --> 00:04:56,421 he has to testify. How else is he gonna explain 91 00:04:56,504 --> 00:04:57,630 that he wrote the letter 92 00:04:57,714 --> 00:04:59,257 and the circumstance of why is she dead? 93 00:04:59,341 --> 00:05:01,092 (wheelchair rolling) 94 00:05:01,134 --> 00:05:02,886 Like, how did that happen? 95 00:05:04,596 --> 00:05:07,766 Charles Bagli: How is he gonna knit this all together 96 00:05:07,849 --> 00:05:11,478 without making himself the perpetrator? 97 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,565 bailiff: Please raise your right hand. 98 00:05:18,068 --> 00:05:20,487 Do you solemnly state that the testimony you may give 99 00:05:20,570 --> 00:05:22,614 in the cause now pending before this court 100 00:05:22,697 --> 00:05:24,616 shall be the truth, the whole truth, 101 00:05:24,699 --> 00:05:27,118 and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 102 00:05:27,202 --> 00:05:29,079 Robert Durst: Yes, I do. 103 00:05:31,623 --> 00:05:34,459 Dick DeGuerin: Bob, do you realize 104 00:05:34,542 --> 00:05:38,588 you have an absolute right not to testify? 105 00:05:43,385 --> 00:05:45,553 DeGuerin: Did you kill Susan Berman? 106 00:05:45,637 --> 00:05:46,971 No. 107 00:05:47,055 --> 00:05:48,640 DeGuerin: Do you know who did? 108 00:05:48,723 --> 00:05:50,600 No, I do not. 109 00:05:51,976 --> 00:05:54,354 DeGuerin: It's important for the jury 110 00:05:54,437 --> 00:05:57,816 to be able to identify with a defendant in some way, 111 00:05:57,899 --> 00:06:00,485 whether it's sympathy, empathy, or... 112 00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:03,571 simply believing the story. 113 00:06:03,613 --> 00:06:05,156 ♪♪ 114 00:06:05,198 --> 00:06:06,533 We had one goal 115 00:06:06,616 --> 00:06:08,952 and that was telling the whole story. 116 00:06:10,995 --> 00:06:12,580 I wanna first ask you 117 00:06:12,664 --> 00:06:16,042 about some of your health problems. 118 00:06:16,126 --> 00:06:17,419 Are you able to hear me 119 00:06:17,502 --> 00:06:20,839 without using that screen in front of you? 120 00:06:25,552 --> 00:06:27,012 Carlos Leal: You're looking at this old guy, 121 00:06:27,053 --> 00:06:30,432 going, "Wow, could he really have done this?" 122 00:06:30,515 --> 00:06:32,392 You just don't know. 123 00:06:34,269 --> 00:06:37,397 DeGuerin: I wanna start with talking about 124 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,190 when you were a child. 125 00:06:39,524 --> 00:06:42,569 Who, among your family, did you favor, 126 00:06:42,652 --> 00:06:46,865 and who among your family did your brother Douglas favor? 127 00:06:48,074 --> 00:06:50,534 (high-pitched, weak voice) 128 00:06:53,705 --> 00:06:56,875 -(gentle music playing) -(quiet laughter) 129 00:06:58,501 --> 00:07:02,005 (inaudible) 130 00:07:02,047 --> 00:07:05,050 -(splashing) -(laughter) 131 00:07:05,091 --> 00:07:08,511 (inaudible) 132 00:07:28,031 --> 00:07:29,449 (whoosh) 133 00:07:30,158 --> 00:07:31,826 (muffled cheer) 134 00:07:32,744 --> 00:07:35,080 Bagli: Bob was the oldest of four 135 00:07:35,121 --> 00:07:37,999 and I think, to some degree, 136 00:07:38,082 --> 00:07:39,959 he resented his siblings. 137 00:07:40,043 --> 00:07:41,878 (waves washing ashore) 138 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,464 His hatred for his brother Douglas 139 00:07:44,547 --> 00:07:47,258 goes back to when they were children. 140 00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:49,552 Really small children. 141 00:07:51,262 --> 00:07:55,350 And it's clear that he really cherished his mother. 142 00:07:55,433 --> 00:07:58,228 (birds chirping) 143 00:07:59,187 --> 00:08:03,483 DeGuerin: How old were you when your mother died? 144 00:08:03,566 --> 00:08:07,112 Durst: I was 7 years old when my mother died. 145 00:08:10,115 --> 00:08:14,577 I looked out the window, and there was Mommy on the roof. 146 00:08:18,206 --> 00:08:21,876 She either jumped or fell 147 00:08:22,419 --> 00:08:25,630 from the roof of our home. 148 00:08:26,589 --> 00:08:29,801 (curious music playing) 149 00:08:31,344 --> 00:08:32,761 DeGuerin: I think it is important 150 00:08:32,804 --> 00:08:35,682 in anybody understanding Bob 151 00:08:35,765 --> 00:08:38,601 to know what he had been through. 152 00:08:39,852 --> 00:08:44,107 And the fact is that he saw his mother die. 153 00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:49,654 Were you there when that happened? 154 00:08:50,613 --> 00:08:53,033 I saw my mother on the driveway... 155 00:08:54,492 --> 00:08:56,202 in her nightgown. 156 00:08:56,286 --> 00:08:58,830 (cloth flapping) 157 00:08:58,913 --> 00:09:01,750 They say she died instantly. 158 00:09:04,711 --> 00:09:07,297 David Chesnoff: This isn't like Bob woke up one day 159 00:09:07,339 --> 00:09:09,507 and decided to be the Bob he is. 160 00:09:09,591 --> 00:09:12,469 Just like you and me, we're all the product of 161 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:15,138 what led us to a point in time. 162 00:09:15,180 --> 00:09:16,765 And he had a lot of things 163 00:09:16,848 --> 00:09:20,769 that led him to be the way he is. 164 00:09:25,815 --> 00:09:27,275 ♪♪ 165 00:09:29,194 --> 00:09:32,530 DeGuerin: I'm gonna change subjects with you, Bob. 166 00:09:32,614 --> 00:09:35,367 When you first met Susan Berman, 167 00:09:35,408 --> 00:09:39,245 -did you and she hit it off? -Yes. 168 00:09:39,954 --> 00:09:43,667 DeGuerin: What did you find in common with you and Susan? 169 00:09:43,708 --> 00:09:47,921 (Durst speaking) 170 00:10:08,233 --> 00:10:11,444 Carmen Kletecka: He has a way of drawing you in 171 00:10:11,528 --> 00:10:14,280 like the way a child draws you in. 172 00:10:14,364 --> 00:10:17,200 Something about him just sort of makes you wanna... 173 00:10:18,076 --> 00:10:19,244 help him. 174 00:10:19,285 --> 00:10:20,912 ♪♪ 175 00:10:20,954 --> 00:10:23,123 Milius: He takes the stand, and I'm thinking to myself, like, 176 00:10:23,206 --> 00:10:24,916 "This might actually be a problem 177 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,751 because he's compelling." 178 00:10:26,793 --> 00:10:28,586 I can see people going, 179 00:10:28,628 --> 00:10:30,338 "I actually like this guy." 180 00:10:30,422 --> 00:10:31,923 And that, like, 181 00:10:31,965 --> 00:10:34,175 shifts the sympathy towards him. 182 00:10:36,136 --> 00:10:38,930 Hon. Mark Windham: We're all complex people, 183 00:10:38,972 --> 00:10:42,267 and I think that that's what Mr. Durst tried to share 184 00:10:42,308 --> 00:10:45,020 and his lawyers tried to share about him. 185 00:10:45,103 --> 00:10:48,398 And I felt that the defense was really good 186 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,068 at getting at the emotion of a case. 187 00:10:53,153 --> 00:10:56,406 Really good defense lawyers can mine that 188 00:10:57,032 --> 00:11:00,660 and, in the right circumstances, can succeed. 189 00:11:03,079 --> 00:11:05,665 operator (on phone): Hello. This is a prepaid call from... 190 00:11:05,749 --> 00:11:07,208 Durst (on phone): Bob! 191 00:11:07,292 --> 00:11:09,336 -Debrah Lee Charatan (on phone): Hi. -Durst: Debbie? 192 00:11:09,419 --> 00:11:10,962 Charatan: How did it go today? 193 00:11:11,004 --> 00:11:13,590 Durst: I'm not 100% sure. 194 00:11:13,631 --> 00:11:15,800 I think we did pretty good. 195 00:11:15,884 --> 00:11:17,510 Charatan: Okay, that's great. 196 00:11:18,219 --> 00:11:20,889 Durst: How about coming to visit me? 197 00:11:21,306 --> 00:11:22,724 Charatan: Um... 198 00:11:23,099 --> 00:11:25,685 Well, you know, I don't know. 199 00:11:26,269 --> 00:11:28,021 (Durst speaking) 200 00:11:32,609 --> 00:11:34,152 (Charatan speaking) 201 00:11:44,871 --> 00:11:47,207 Windham: Ordinarily, a spouse is present 202 00:11:47,290 --> 00:11:50,835 when their spouse is, is, is on trial. 203 00:11:51,878 --> 00:11:55,215 We would've provided a seat for her 204 00:11:56,341 --> 00:12:00,720 but she had not been present for any of the proceedings. 205 00:12:02,889 --> 00:12:06,142 Bagli: Debbie made it clear that she did not want 206 00:12:06,184 --> 00:12:07,977 her name mentioned 207 00:12:08,019 --> 00:12:11,356 if she could do anything to avoid it. 208 00:12:11,398 --> 00:12:13,149 (indistinct, muffled) 209 00:12:13,191 --> 00:12:16,403 So she was monitoring the trial from afar, 210 00:12:17,654 --> 00:12:19,531 and she was doing so through 211 00:12:19,572 --> 00:12:21,366 the presence of her own lawyer, 212 00:12:21,449 --> 00:12:25,078 who attended the trial every day for months 213 00:12:25,161 --> 00:12:27,997 and was keeping an eye on everything. 214 00:12:33,044 --> 00:12:34,379 (mouthing) 215 00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:37,257 -He's in the fucking show, Charlie. Just-- -I know! Let him be in there! 216 00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:40,385 I don't wanna be the one that mentions his name! 217 00:12:40,427 --> 00:12:43,221 (muffled chatter) 218 00:12:43,263 --> 00:12:45,890 (Charatan speaking) 219 00:12:51,396 --> 00:12:53,815 (Durst speaking) 220 00:13:05,243 --> 00:13:07,912 -(rain pattering) -(thunder rumbles) 221 00:13:07,954 --> 00:13:10,874 Windham: You may resume your direct examination 222 00:13:10,915 --> 00:13:13,626 of Mr. Durst, the defendant. 223 00:13:13,710 --> 00:13:15,920 DeGuerin: So now, I wanna talk about 224 00:13:16,963 --> 00:13:19,341 the fall of 2000. 225 00:13:19,424 --> 00:13:21,634 Had you made plans 226 00:13:21,718 --> 00:13:24,346 to spend Christmas with Susan Berman? 227 00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:26,806 Yeah. 228 00:14:00,298 --> 00:14:03,176 DeGuerin: What route did you take from San Francisco? 229 00:14:06,930 --> 00:14:09,015 DeGuerin: And your intent was to do what? 230 00:14:09,307 --> 00:14:11,559 (Durst speaking) 231 00:14:14,813 --> 00:14:16,815 DeGuerin: As you got to Benedict Canyon, 232 00:14:16,856 --> 00:14:19,484 what did you first see? 233 00:14:32,330 --> 00:14:34,540 (doorbell rings) 234 00:14:34,624 --> 00:14:37,585 And I knocked a few times. 235 00:14:37,669 --> 00:14:40,255 (lock clicking) 236 00:14:40,338 --> 00:14:42,924 DeGuerin: Did you have a key to her front door? 237 00:14:43,675 --> 00:14:45,010 (Durst speaking) 238 00:15:00,025 --> 00:15:02,110 (dog barking) 239 00:15:43,026 --> 00:15:46,363 DeGuerin: Did you see what the liquid was that her head was in? 240 00:15:50,492 --> 00:15:52,452 ♪♪ 241 00:15:52,535 --> 00:15:54,996 DeGuerin: What was going through your mind? What did you think? 242 00:15:55,914 --> 00:15:57,415 (Durst speaking) 243 00:16:05,131 --> 00:16:07,967 John Okanishi: When Bob Durst took the stand, 244 00:16:08,051 --> 00:16:11,513 he talked with such sincerity that I believed him. 245 00:16:13,765 --> 00:16:16,976 I thought, "I get the feeling he's telling the truth. 246 00:16:17,060 --> 00:16:19,437 He's going into so much detail." 247 00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:22,691 He did have credibility. 248 00:16:22,774 --> 00:16:24,109 ♪♪ 249 00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:26,194 DeGuerin: And then what happened from there? 250 00:16:35,453 --> 00:16:37,706 DeGuerin: What did you put on the envelope? 251 00:16:43,211 --> 00:16:45,463 DeGuerin: And on the inside, on the note? 252 00:16:49,592 --> 00:16:52,721 DeGuerin: Did you lie about it for years? 253 00:16:54,472 --> 00:16:56,141 DeGuerin: Why? 254 00:17:11,698 --> 00:17:14,451 (bird cawing) 255 00:17:14,492 --> 00:17:16,453 (rattling, clang) 256 00:17:16,536 --> 00:17:20,123 (tense music playing) 257 00:17:22,709 --> 00:17:24,544 (DeGuerin speaking) 258 00:17:27,422 --> 00:17:29,382 newscaster: Slow and methodical seems to be how Durst 259 00:17:29,466 --> 00:17:31,926 is telling his side of the story. 260 00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:33,470 And it seems that in the past, he's been, 261 00:17:33,511 --> 00:17:35,263 I don't know, somewhat charismatic enough 262 00:17:35,347 --> 00:17:37,307 to turn at least just one juror. 263 00:17:37,349 --> 00:17:40,393 ♪♪ 264 00:17:41,728 --> 00:17:44,022 DeGuerin: I thought on direct examination, 265 00:17:44,064 --> 00:17:45,607 Bob did quite well. 266 00:17:46,024 --> 00:17:47,942 He knew what the questions would be. 267 00:17:48,026 --> 00:17:49,903 He knew what his answers were gonna be. 268 00:17:49,986 --> 00:17:53,281 They were basically softballs 269 00:17:53,365 --> 00:17:56,368 that I pitched to him to hit. 270 00:17:56,409 --> 00:17:59,329 But, of course, on cross-examination, 271 00:17:59,371 --> 00:18:03,500 Lewin would have the chance to question Bob. 272 00:18:03,541 --> 00:18:06,294 John Lewin: Okay, so go ahead and call me... 273 00:18:06,378 --> 00:18:07,879 (indistinct phone chatter) 274 00:18:08,171 --> 00:18:10,715 Working on Bob's cross-examination plan, 275 00:18:10,757 --> 00:18:14,636 I thought, "How do I kind of guide and steer 276 00:18:14,719 --> 00:18:17,889 this trial and his testimony where I want it to go?" 277 00:18:21,309 --> 00:18:24,312 As I prepare, it's just me and the boys 278 00:18:24,396 --> 00:18:27,023 on the bed, getting ready for trial. 279 00:18:27,816 --> 00:18:30,777 Eugene Miyata: John was working on the cross plan. 280 00:18:30,860 --> 00:18:33,446 At various points, he did share with us what was going on, 281 00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:37,283 and we had input on, on certain things. But, um, 282 00:18:37,367 --> 00:18:40,245 you know, for the most part, that was, that was his baby. 283 00:18:40,286 --> 00:18:43,915 This is a prosecutor who knows his case inside out. 284 00:18:43,998 --> 00:18:46,084 This is a prosecutor 285 00:18:46,167 --> 00:18:49,629 who is living to win this case right now. 286 00:18:50,588 --> 00:18:53,341 Lewin: I have a 300-page document 287 00:18:53,425 --> 00:18:56,302 of all of Bob's lies. 288 00:18:56,386 --> 00:18:59,014 And during my cross-examination of Bob, 289 00:18:59,097 --> 00:19:01,099 there's a theme of what I want to do. 290 00:19:01,182 --> 00:19:03,768 ♪♪ 291 00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:07,397 I wanna confront Bob on all of his statements 292 00:19:07,439 --> 00:19:09,274 and let the jury see for themselves 293 00:19:09,357 --> 00:19:12,193 that Bob is a pathological liar. 294 00:19:14,446 --> 00:19:16,489 Bagli: It's the heavyweight bout. 295 00:19:16,573 --> 00:19:18,742 John Lewin, the prosecutor, 296 00:19:18,783 --> 00:19:22,287 versus Bob Durst, the defendant. 297 00:19:22,328 --> 00:19:25,957 The question is, can Bob stand up to 298 00:19:26,041 --> 00:19:27,625 what is clearly gonna be 299 00:19:27,709 --> 00:19:31,463 a withering cross-examination by this prosecutor? 300 00:19:31,504 --> 00:19:34,883 -(clothing rustling) -(line ringing) 301 00:19:38,595 --> 00:19:40,680 (Durst speaking) 302 00:20:00,075 --> 00:20:02,994 ♪♪ 303 00:20:04,788 --> 00:20:08,416 newscaster: When John Lewin gets a chance to cross Robert Durst, 304 00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:11,544 I can't even imagine how this is gonna go. 305 00:20:11,628 --> 00:20:13,421 Because, I mean, John Lewin... 306 00:20:15,423 --> 00:20:17,967 (Windham speaking) 307 00:20:18,968 --> 00:20:20,220 (Lewin speaking) 308 00:20:20,303 --> 00:20:22,555 -Windham: Okay. -(scattered laughs) 309 00:20:26,893 --> 00:20:28,853 (laughter) 310 00:20:28,937 --> 00:20:32,691 (Windham speaking) 311 00:20:38,738 --> 00:20:41,866 Lewin: So, Mr. Durst, Mr. DeGuerin called you "Bob." 312 00:20:41,950 --> 00:20:44,536 So, you tell me, how do you want me to refer to you? 313 00:20:44,619 --> 00:20:47,247 I'm comfortable doing it however you want to do it. 314 00:20:47,330 --> 00:20:48,373 Do you want me to call you "Bob"? 315 00:20:48,456 --> 00:20:49,874 Do you want me to call you "Mr. Durst"? 316 00:20:49,916 --> 00:20:51,543 What would you prefer? 317 00:20:53,878 --> 00:20:56,506 I thought he was gonna be on his best behavior, 318 00:20:56,548 --> 00:21:00,677 and he came off incredibly aggressive right off the top. 319 00:21:01,052 --> 00:21:04,305 Lewin: Okay, I'll call you "sir." 320 00:21:04,389 --> 00:21:06,891 Alright, sir. So, first of all, how do you... 321 00:21:06,975 --> 00:21:08,518 I wanted to make sure 322 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,979 that the first thing I hit him on 323 00:21:11,062 --> 00:21:14,941 had to do with the area that I was most vulnerable on. 324 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,572 Bob lost his mom at age 7. 325 00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:24,701 And that's a fact. 326 00:21:24,743 --> 00:21:29,247 That's not a lie. That's not made up. 327 00:21:29,330 --> 00:21:32,500 Are there jurors who are basically gonna go, 328 00:21:33,084 --> 00:21:36,504 "Yeah, Bob killed three people. 329 00:21:36,588 --> 00:21:37,839 "But you know what? 330 00:21:38,089 --> 00:21:40,759 "It all started with his mom, 331 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,635 and it's very sad." 332 00:21:43,636 --> 00:21:45,472 When you think about these memories 333 00:21:45,555 --> 00:21:49,309 of the four of you playing UNO, throwing the Frisbee, 334 00:21:49,392 --> 00:21:52,562 are those painful or are those happy memories for you? 335 00:21:54,147 --> 00:21:55,982 Happy memories. 336 00:21:56,066 --> 00:21:58,777 Lewin: You could probably close your eyes right now, 337 00:21:58,818 --> 00:22:01,780 and you could literally see the four of you 338 00:22:02,405 --> 00:22:04,282 playing UNO, 339 00:22:04,366 --> 00:22:06,659 throwing the Frisbee. 340 00:22:07,285 --> 00:22:09,454 Is that accurate? 341 00:22:10,663 --> 00:22:12,123 Yes. 342 00:22:14,084 --> 00:22:18,296 And he's lying his ass off. 343 00:22:18,338 --> 00:22:20,298 It's not true. 344 00:22:20,382 --> 00:22:23,301 Lewin: Your mom died in 1950. 345 00:22:23,343 --> 00:22:26,388 -Is that correct? -Correct. 346 00:22:26,763 --> 00:22:28,431 Lewin: Mr. Durst, if I were to tell you 347 00:22:28,473 --> 00:22:32,811 that the Frisbee was not invented until 1957... 348 00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:35,814 (whooshing) 349 00:22:37,899 --> 00:22:39,943 ...seven years after your mom died, 350 00:22:39,984 --> 00:22:42,153 what would be your response? 351 00:22:42,195 --> 00:22:43,822 I don't know. 352 00:22:45,281 --> 00:22:48,493 Lewin: Would it surprise you to find out that the game of UNO 353 00:22:48,535 --> 00:22:51,788 was not invented until 1971? 354 00:22:53,748 --> 00:22:56,167 Durst: It would surprise me, yes. 355 00:22:57,836 --> 00:23:00,630 Lewin: Well, I want you to assume for a moment 356 00:23:00,672 --> 00:23:03,341 that the Frisbee was not invented until 1957 357 00:23:03,383 --> 00:23:06,845 and that UNO was not invented until 1971. 358 00:23:06,886 --> 00:23:09,347 If that were true, you would agree 359 00:23:09,431 --> 00:23:11,683 that these memories that you've described, 360 00:23:11,725 --> 00:23:13,643 these emotional memories, 361 00:23:13,685 --> 00:23:16,104 cannot be accurate. Is that correct? 362 00:23:19,858 --> 00:23:21,234 Correct. 363 00:23:21,317 --> 00:23:24,112 (birds chirping) 364 00:23:24,195 --> 00:23:25,405 (whoosh) 365 00:23:26,781 --> 00:23:28,867 Within the first day, you know, 366 00:23:28,908 --> 00:23:31,077 John Lewin's already getting him on lies. 367 00:23:32,328 --> 00:23:34,706 And that was such a small detail, right? 368 00:23:34,748 --> 00:23:37,459 And I'm thinking, "If John Lewin's going to get him 369 00:23:37,542 --> 00:23:39,669 "on this small of a detail, 370 00:23:39,711 --> 00:23:42,547 Bob is gonna be up there for a while." 371 00:23:43,798 --> 00:23:47,594 Lewin: Alright, let's talk about some other areas of untruthfulness. 372 00:23:47,677 --> 00:23:49,554 You're used to, in your world, 373 00:23:49,596 --> 00:23:51,681 saying whatever you wanna say, 374 00:23:51,723 --> 00:23:53,892 and nobody really questions it. 375 00:23:53,933 --> 00:23:57,020 You said that you were not used to people 376 00:23:57,062 --> 00:23:58,855 questioning your veracity. 377 00:23:58,897 --> 00:24:00,732 Can you explain what you mean by that? 378 00:24:11,576 --> 00:24:14,162 -(quiet laughter) -(upbeat music playing) 379 00:24:14,245 --> 00:24:17,499 He was pretty funny at times on the witness stand. 380 00:24:17,582 --> 00:24:19,793 He has a sharp sense of humor. 381 00:24:19,876 --> 00:24:22,170 You know, he knew how to return the volley. 382 00:24:24,089 --> 00:24:26,383 Lewin: You're smiling again, and I just wanna ask 383 00:24:26,424 --> 00:24:28,885 why you're grinning right now. 384 00:24:28,968 --> 00:24:31,471 'Cause this is funny. 385 00:24:31,554 --> 00:24:33,890 Lewin: What is-- What's funny about it? 386 00:24:33,932 --> 00:24:38,144 You're asking me the same question 15 times. 387 00:24:40,146 --> 00:24:43,441 Windham: It's a peculiar thing about criminal court. 388 00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:45,360 You're dealing with 389 00:24:45,443 --> 00:24:49,656 such tremendous suffering and horror, 390 00:24:50,115 --> 00:24:51,449 and yet, 391 00:24:51,533 --> 00:24:55,036 you have the whole of human experience 392 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:56,538 in that courtroom. 393 00:24:57,580 --> 00:24:59,791 And there are humorous moments. 394 00:25:00,709 --> 00:25:02,711 I mean, there's levity. 395 00:25:02,794 --> 00:25:04,045 David Belcher: You wanna talk about, like, 396 00:25:04,129 --> 00:25:06,339 sort of a show-stopping moment in the trial? 397 00:25:06,423 --> 00:25:08,383 John's, like, asking a question, 398 00:25:08,425 --> 00:25:11,761 and Bob has this tablet to help him read. 399 00:25:11,803 --> 00:25:13,805 And so, he's reading the question, 400 00:25:13,888 --> 00:25:17,225 and John's question was a little bit too long, and so-- 401 00:25:17,308 --> 00:25:19,811 -A lot too long. -A lot too long. 402 00:25:20,437 --> 00:25:23,148 I think I need to congratulate you. 403 00:25:23,189 --> 00:25:26,317 You have just broken your personal record. 404 00:25:26,401 --> 00:25:29,571 You filled up 18 lines on my tablet. 405 00:25:29,654 --> 00:25:32,115 (quiet laughter) 406 00:25:32,157 --> 00:25:34,951 Lewin: And I wanna congratulate you. You've set the perjury record. 407 00:25:34,993 --> 00:25:36,953 DeGuerin: Objection, Your Honor. 408 00:25:36,995 --> 00:25:40,457 -Chesnoff: I'm moving for a-- -DeGuerin: Judge, you cannot let him get away with that. 409 00:25:40,498 --> 00:25:43,043 Chesnoff: I have a motion, Your Honor. 410 00:25:43,835 --> 00:25:46,338 Okanishi: At some points during the trial, 411 00:25:46,421 --> 00:25:49,341 I actually felt kinda bad 412 00:25:49,424 --> 00:25:51,885 for the defense lawyers. 413 00:25:51,968 --> 00:25:55,055 Mr. DeGuerin would stand up and object... 414 00:25:55,138 --> 00:25:56,514 Windham: Overruled! 415 00:25:56,556 --> 00:25:58,516 Okanishi: ...again and again and again. 416 00:25:58,558 --> 00:26:00,518 He almost seemed like a jack-in-the-box. 417 00:26:00,602 --> 00:26:02,645 Lewin: Have you ever used those responses-- 418 00:26:05,357 --> 00:26:07,776 (DeGuerin speaking) 419 00:26:09,527 --> 00:26:11,029 (Windham speaking) 420 00:26:12,030 --> 00:26:13,490 Bagli: They didn't understand 421 00:26:13,531 --> 00:26:16,576 the peculiarities of California law. 422 00:26:17,285 --> 00:26:20,955 DeGuerin: I found that requiring a citation 423 00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:24,709 to a particular statute number was... 424 00:26:25,627 --> 00:26:27,545 vexing, at first. 425 00:26:27,629 --> 00:26:29,547 ♪♪ 426 00:26:29,631 --> 00:26:32,634 (Windham speaking) 427 00:26:40,975 --> 00:26:42,977 Lewin: Alright, let's move on. 428 00:26:43,770 --> 00:26:46,398 Let's talk about Nick Chavin for a moment. 429 00:26:46,940 --> 00:26:49,067 (on TV) You agree that at the time Kathie disappeared... 430 00:26:49,150 --> 00:26:51,861 Nick Chavin: I was eager to watch the trial 431 00:26:51,903 --> 00:26:54,781 for two reasons. I wanted to hear 432 00:26:54,864 --> 00:26:56,449 what Bob was saying in general, 433 00:26:56,533 --> 00:26:58,368 and also specifically about me. 434 00:26:59,869 --> 00:27:01,121 Lewin: Would you agree, Mr. Durst, 435 00:27:01,204 --> 00:27:02,872 that the fact that one of the two people 436 00:27:02,914 --> 00:27:05,875 that you've said is one of your best friends 437 00:27:05,917 --> 00:27:09,212 has come into court and has provided 438 00:27:09,254 --> 00:27:11,756 extremely damaging evidence 439 00:27:11,798 --> 00:27:14,092 in this case against you? Would you agree? 440 00:27:20,140 --> 00:27:21,766 Come on. 441 00:27:21,808 --> 00:27:23,518 Lewin (on TV): Then why did you say that? 442 00:27:23,601 --> 00:27:25,061 (Durst speaking) 443 00:27:26,730 --> 00:27:28,773 I feel pretty good about-- 444 00:27:28,857 --> 00:27:31,693 Either way, whether he's convicted or not. 445 00:27:32,736 --> 00:27:35,989 That's a lousy thought to have. 446 00:27:36,072 --> 00:27:37,741 Nick couldn't get to that point, 447 00:27:37,782 --> 00:27:40,618 to think that this person is capable of this. 448 00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:43,246 He even testified against Bob, 449 00:27:43,288 --> 00:27:45,123 and he's still conflicted. 450 00:27:45,165 --> 00:27:48,043 He didn't wanna let his brain go to that point 451 00:27:48,126 --> 00:27:50,962 to understand that because it's... 452 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,965 It just destroys you, I think. 453 00:27:54,632 --> 00:27:56,009 Lewin: Would you agree, Mr. Durst, 454 00:27:56,092 --> 00:27:59,137 that if Nick Chavin's statement about you confessing to him 455 00:27:59,179 --> 00:28:01,973 is believed, that that demonstrates 456 00:28:02,057 --> 00:28:04,309 that you killed Susan Berman? 457 00:28:24,245 --> 00:28:27,040 Lewin: Alright, let's talk about Susan Berman. 458 00:28:27,665 --> 00:28:31,169 You agree that Susan Berman was your closest friend, correct? 459 00:28:36,007 --> 00:28:39,719 Lewin: Mr. Durst, you stipulated that you wrote the Cadaver Note, 460 00:28:39,803 --> 00:28:41,930 and you agree that once you stipulated 461 00:28:42,013 --> 00:28:45,016 that meant, by necessity, 462 00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:48,895 that you had found Susan's dead body, correct? 463 00:28:50,563 --> 00:28:51,690 Lewin: And it also meant 464 00:28:51,731 --> 00:28:53,149 that you needed to be able to explain 465 00:28:53,191 --> 00:28:55,985 why it was you found yourself 466 00:28:56,027 --> 00:28:59,739 at Susan's house, with her dead body, 467 00:28:59,823 --> 00:29:02,367 when you weren't the killer. Correct? 468 00:29:02,450 --> 00:29:04,035 (floor creaking) 469 00:29:04,077 --> 00:29:06,287 George Shamlyan: When Robert Durst took the stand, 470 00:29:06,371 --> 00:29:10,375 he was trying to tell a story which fit the evidence. 471 00:29:10,709 --> 00:29:13,044 Coming here and having staycation 472 00:29:13,086 --> 00:29:14,963 with Susan Berman on those days, 473 00:29:15,046 --> 00:29:17,549 and finding her body 474 00:29:17,632 --> 00:29:19,968 and writing the Cadaver Note. 475 00:29:20,051 --> 00:29:22,887 Lewin: Bob has a very elaborate explanation 476 00:29:22,929 --> 00:29:25,432 for what happened with Susan. And, of course, 477 00:29:25,515 --> 00:29:29,436 everything that he said is bullshit about staycations 478 00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:31,563 and how he found Susan's body. 479 00:29:32,814 --> 00:29:36,234 But I need to conclusively prove 480 00:29:36,276 --> 00:29:37,902 Bob is lying. 481 00:29:39,654 --> 00:29:41,698 Tim Henderson: There's so much evidence in this case 482 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:43,783 and some of it became more relevant 483 00:29:43,867 --> 00:29:46,661 after Bob chose to get on the stand. 484 00:29:46,745 --> 00:29:48,913 Shamlyan: As he was testifying, 485 00:29:48,955 --> 00:29:51,249 we remembered about the day planner 486 00:29:51,291 --> 00:29:53,752 that was recovered from Susan Berman's house. 487 00:29:54,502 --> 00:29:56,713 Henderson: A detective goes down to evidence. 488 00:29:56,755 --> 00:29:57,839 He grabs the day planner, 489 00:29:57,922 --> 00:29:59,090 brings it to court the next day. 490 00:29:59,132 --> 00:30:01,426 We're literally in the back hallway, 491 00:30:01,468 --> 00:30:04,888 and we're going through the day planner page by page. 492 00:30:04,929 --> 00:30:08,099 Miyata: Originally, our tactic was gonna be, 493 00:30:08,183 --> 00:30:11,227 let's look at it over the lunch hour. 494 00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:13,772 We can figure out how we're gonna do this. 495 00:30:13,813 --> 00:30:16,566 And then, that turned into John saying, 496 00:30:16,608 --> 00:30:18,234 "Gimme the planner!" Right? 497 00:30:18,276 --> 00:30:20,695 "Because I wanna question Bob about this." 498 00:30:21,404 --> 00:30:25,617 Lewin: Alright, sir. We're gonna show you Susan's day planner. 499 00:30:27,911 --> 00:30:31,581 You recognize this to be Susan's handwriting, correct? 500 00:30:32,540 --> 00:30:35,335 (Durst speaking) 501 00:30:36,086 --> 00:30:39,964 Henderson: Susan wrote every single thing she was gonna do. 502 00:30:40,006 --> 00:30:42,467 She would even write things, cross them out, 503 00:30:42,509 --> 00:30:44,386 cover it up with a Post-it, and write new things. 504 00:30:44,469 --> 00:30:47,681 She was meticulous with what she was gonna do 505 00:30:47,764 --> 00:30:49,474 the week she was killed, 506 00:30:49,516 --> 00:30:51,643 and none of them were to have 507 00:30:51,726 --> 00:30:53,520 a staycation with Bob. 508 00:30:54,104 --> 00:30:56,147 Habib Balian: From the day planner on this page, 509 00:30:56,189 --> 00:30:59,693 which is open to December 28th, is a business card 510 00:30:59,776 --> 00:31:01,653 for David Izenman Hair Studio. 511 00:31:01,736 --> 00:31:04,197 Says, "December 28th at 11:00." 512 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,158 And then, on the 28th, it says, "11:00, David." 513 00:31:07,242 --> 00:31:08,743 Lewin: See that, Mr. Durst? 514 00:31:08,827 --> 00:31:10,870 Would you agree that on the 27th and 28th, 515 00:31:10,954 --> 00:31:12,330 according to your testimony, 516 00:31:12,414 --> 00:31:16,376 this is when you are supposed to be on a staycation with Susan? 517 00:31:16,459 --> 00:31:17,711 Is that correct? 518 00:31:17,794 --> 00:31:21,381 We don't see any Disneyland or Catalina. 519 00:31:22,590 --> 00:31:26,720 Balian: The day planner represented reality. 520 00:31:26,803 --> 00:31:29,889 We had Bob on the stand and his testimony, 521 00:31:29,973 --> 00:31:33,143 which was fictional, right? 522 00:31:33,184 --> 00:31:34,769 But you don't really know it's fictional 523 00:31:34,853 --> 00:31:36,021 until you critically analyze it. 524 00:31:36,104 --> 00:31:39,190 And that fiction kinda got faced 525 00:31:39,274 --> 00:31:41,526 with the reality of the day planner, 526 00:31:41,568 --> 00:31:43,361 and the two just collided. 527 00:31:44,195 --> 00:31:46,781 Lewin: Do you see any notation, Mr. Durst, 528 00:31:46,865 --> 00:31:48,908 that references you? 529 00:31:49,701 --> 00:31:52,370 (Durst speaking) 530 00:31:53,413 --> 00:31:55,540 Henderson: Every single day of that month, 531 00:31:55,623 --> 00:31:56,916 she was writing things. 532 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,793 In fact, she was gonna call Bobby 533 00:31:58,877 --> 00:32:00,879 a few days after she was murdered, 534 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,756 which, obviously, she wasn't able to do. 535 00:32:02,839 --> 00:32:05,091 ♪♪ 536 00:32:05,175 --> 00:32:08,011 Lewin: You see where it says, "call Bobby"? 537 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,723 (Durst speaking) 538 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,563 Lewin: Are you aware that you did not answer my question 539 00:32:18,646 --> 00:32:20,940 in that answer you gave? Or no? 540 00:32:21,024 --> 00:32:22,067 (DeGuerin speaking) 541 00:32:22,150 --> 00:32:23,568 Windham: Overruled! 542 00:32:25,403 --> 00:32:27,405 Balian: Susan Berman's day planner 543 00:32:27,489 --> 00:32:31,242 really demonstrated that just about everything Bob Durst 544 00:32:31,284 --> 00:32:34,120 was saying on the stand was false. 545 00:32:34,537 --> 00:32:36,247 Because she spoke to us, 546 00:32:36,331 --> 00:32:39,709 she spoke to that jury through that day planner. 547 00:32:39,751 --> 00:32:42,754 (tense music playing) 548 00:32:42,796 --> 00:32:45,632 -(traffic noise) -(wind blowing) 549 00:32:46,216 --> 00:32:49,344 newscaster 1 (on radio): Here we are, a brand new day, a brand new week, 550 00:32:49,427 --> 00:32:51,554 and Robert Durst's still on the witness stand, 551 00:32:51,596 --> 00:32:54,974 still on cross-examination, fourth day of cross. 552 00:32:55,058 --> 00:32:58,311 newscaster 2 (on radio): I really think the prosecutor's still trying to prove 553 00:32:58,395 --> 00:33:01,564 that there's so many lies in this huge web of lies 554 00:33:01,606 --> 00:33:04,442 that Robert Durst has woven since the beginning 555 00:33:04,484 --> 00:33:06,736 with the disappearance of his wife Kathie. 556 00:33:09,781 --> 00:33:11,074 Lewin: This trial, Mr. Durst, 557 00:33:11,116 --> 00:33:14,035 as you are aware, alleges a special circumstance 558 00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:15,620 of witness killing. 559 00:33:15,662 --> 00:33:17,288 That you killed Susan Berman 560 00:33:17,330 --> 00:33:19,207 because you killed your wife, 561 00:33:19,290 --> 00:33:21,376 and she helped you cover it up. 562 00:33:39,978 --> 00:33:42,188 Lewin: Do you miss Kathie? 563 00:33:42,814 --> 00:33:44,983 Yes. 564 00:33:45,066 --> 00:33:46,693 Lewin: Tell me about her. 565 00:33:56,661 --> 00:33:58,329 Lewin: What was she like? 566 00:34:01,583 --> 00:34:03,418 (Durst speaking) 567 00:34:13,011 --> 00:34:14,971 Lewin: Would you agree she was 568 00:34:15,013 --> 00:34:16,848 a very bright young woman? 569 00:34:22,270 --> 00:34:24,105 Lewin: Beautiful? 570 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,362 Lewin (on TV): Would you agree that she was close to 571 00:34:30,445 --> 00:34:32,072 and devoted to her family? 572 00:34:32,739 --> 00:34:36,993 Durst (on TV): She was close to her sisters and her brother. 573 00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:38,786 (news jingle playing) 574 00:34:38,870 --> 00:34:41,998 newscaster 1 (on TV): Right now, Robert Durst on cross-examination. 575 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,375 newscaster 2 (on TV): Today is day five. 576 00:34:43,416 --> 00:34:46,002 Tomorrow will be day six of cross-examination. 577 00:34:46,043 --> 00:34:48,213 Still plenty of cross-examination to come... 578 00:34:48,295 --> 00:34:49,672 Jim McCormack: The trial in Los Angeles 579 00:34:49,714 --> 00:34:52,132 was something that I watched daily. 580 00:34:52,217 --> 00:34:55,053 It has been a roller coaster of emotions. 581 00:34:55,136 --> 00:34:57,389 I want him to face up to his... 582 00:34:57,430 --> 00:35:00,850 many, many transgressions, especially against Kathie. 583 00:35:00,892 --> 00:35:03,728 I want him to be held accountable. 584 00:35:04,688 --> 00:35:08,400 Lewin: It's your sworn testimony that you have no idea 585 00:35:08,441 --> 00:35:10,819 what happened to Kathie, correct? 586 00:35:10,902 --> 00:35:12,904 Durst (on TV): Correct. 587 00:35:13,655 --> 00:35:16,074 Lewin: Alright, Mr. Durst, I wanna talk about 588 00:35:16,116 --> 00:35:18,243 what has been referred to 589 00:35:18,326 --> 00:35:21,204 as "the bathroom audio." 590 00:35:21,246 --> 00:35:23,540 You're aware of this, correct? 591 00:35:24,833 --> 00:35:26,501 Lewin: How did you feel 592 00:35:26,584 --> 00:35:28,586 when Andrew Jarecki is showing you, 593 00:35:28,670 --> 00:35:32,257 "Here's the Sareb note. Here's the Cadaver Note. 594 00:35:32,298 --> 00:35:35,135 -Which one did you not write?" -Yes. 595 00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:44,686 Lewin: And you walked into the bathroom right after that. 596 00:35:44,769 --> 00:35:46,271 What did you say? 597 00:35:48,606 --> 00:35:50,942 Lewin: Play the clip for Mr. Durst. 598 00:35:50,984 --> 00:35:53,945 -(clicking) -(tense music playing) 599 00:35:54,029 --> 00:35:56,072 (Durst groaning on TV) 600 00:35:56,698 --> 00:35:59,534 Durst (on TV): Killed them all, of course. 601 00:36:01,286 --> 00:36:05,206 Lewin: Do you agree that you said those five words, 602 00:36:05,290 --> 00:36:08,543 "Killed them all, of course"? 603 00:36:08,626 --> 00:36:09,919 (Durst speaking) 604 00:36:14,215 --> 00:36:16,593 Lewin: So you think that you added 605 00:36:16,634 --> 00:36:19,637 "they'll all think" before the words, 606 00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:23,308 "I killed them all, of course"? Is that correct? 607 00:36:23,391 --> 00:36:25,310 Please play it again. Please play it right before, 608 00:36:25,352 --> 00:36:26,978 and I want you to listen very carefully. 609 00:36:27,020 --> 00:36:28,980 I want you to tell me when you hear 610 00:36:29,022 --> 00:36:31,232 any of the words you just described. 611 00:36:32,984 --> 00:36:34,986 (Durst groaning on TV) 612 00:36:35,528 --> 00:36:38,365 Durst (on TV): Killed them all, of course. 613 00:36:39,657 --> 00:36:44,245 Do you agree that in the stipulated recording, 614 00:36:44,329 --> 00:36:47,082 the unedited, stipulated recording, 615 00:36:47,165 --> 00:36:51,503 that the only words that are on that recording at that section 616 00:36:51,586 --> 00:36:56,257 are the five words, "Killed them all, of course"? 617 00:36:58,968 --> 00:37:02,972 And would you agree, Mr. Durst, that those five words 618 00:37:03,515 --> 00:37:05,934 are extremely incriminating? 619 00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:10,563 No? 620 00:37:10,647 --> 00:37:13,858 Since you cannot explain what is, 621 00:37:13,942 --> 00:37:15,402 in essence can be argued as, 622 00:37:15,485 --> 00:37:17,404 a confession, Mr. Durst, 623 00:37:17,487 --> 00:37:20,949 why don't you just, right now, 624 00:37:21,032 --> 00:37:22,534 put the facade down 625 00:37:22,575 --> 00:37:26,538 and tell people what actually happened? 626 00:37:26,621 --> 00:37:28,373 Why don't you just tell us right now, 627 00:37:28,415 --> 00:37:31,001 get it out, and just tell us what you did? 628 00:37:31,084 --> 00:37:33,169 This is your shot! Everyone's watching! 629 00:37:33,211 --> 00:37:34,546 -The world's watching you! -(laughs) 630 00:37:34,629 --> 00:37:37,465 Here's your chance! Tell them what you did! 631 00:37:38,049 --> 00:37:40,552 (DeGuerin and Windham speaking) 632 00:37:51,604 --> 00:37:53,481 -Lewin: Well, wait a minute. -(court murmuring) 633 00:37:53,565 --> 00:37:56,026 Why did you say you never said 634 00:37:56,067 --> 00:37:58,528 you knew where Kathie was buried? 635 00:37:59,487 --> 00:38:02,282 You're saying that you don't even know if Kathie's dead, 636 00:38:02,365 --> 00:38:03,950 you don't even know what happened to her. 637 00:38:04,034 --> 00:38:06,453 Now, you're talking about where she's buried. 638 00:38:06,536 --> 00:38:09,289 Again, only the killer could've known that. 639 00:38:11,833 --> 00:38:14,461 How do you know Kathie's buried at all? 640 00:38:21,926 --> 00:38:25,221 DeGuerin: I wanted to stop the cross-examination. 641 00:38:25,263 --> 00:38:28,558 Bob was getting worse every day. 642 00:38:29,267 --> 00:38:32,354 -(murmuring) -Lewin: I just wanna ask you, Mr. Durst. 643 00:38:32,437 --> 00:38:34,439 Have you been completely honest with this jury 644 00:38:34,522 --> 00:38:35,940 to the best of your memory? 645 00:38:38,443 --> 00:38:41,780 Lewin: Would you lie under oath to help your case? 646 00:38:43,948 --> 00:38:47,452 If you had killed Susan, would you tell us? 647 00:38:49,788 --> 00:38:52,582 Michael Belcher: Bob gave some very unusual 648 00:38:52,624 --> 00:38:56,419 and, some might say, extraordinarily honest answers 649 00:38:56,461 --> 00:38:58,755 to some of John's questions. 650 00:39:05,637 --> 00:39:07,639 I mean, who says that? 651 00:39:08,556 --> 00:39:11,267 Lewin: How many instances of perjury 652 00:39:11,309 --> 00:39:13,144 do you think you have committed 653 00:39:13,186 --> 00:39:16,398 during your testimony in this trial? 654 00:39:19,651 --> 00:39:21,653 Lewin: Bob, as usual, 655 00:39:21,736 --> 00:39:25,323 is having to get around his lies 656 00:39:25,365 --> 00:39:27,742 by telling bigger and crazier lies, 657 00:39:27,826 --> 00:39:29,869 and the lies are like a snowball. 658 00:39:29,953 --> 00:39:33,581 As they roll down the hill, the lies get bigger and crazier, 659 00:39:33,665 --> 00:39:37,794 until they basically are a giant, huge snowball 660 00:39:37,836 --> 00:39:40,171 out of a cartoon. 661 00:39:40,213 --> 00:39:43,717 Once you admit that you would lie 662 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,345 to keep from admitting something damaging to the jury, 663 00:39:47,387 --> 00:39:50,765 would you agree that that pretty much destroys 664 00:39:50,849 --> 00:39:53,059 any credibility you would have? 665 00:40:17,709 --> 00:40:20,795 Lewin: So, there's perjury, there's minor perjury, 666 00:40:20,879 --> 00:40:23,089 then there's minor, minor perjury-- 667 00:40:31,765 --> 00:40:35,602 I did limit him. I put a limit. I can, and I did. 668 00:40:40,273 --> 00:40:41,566 I think I helped guide him 669 00:40:41,608 --> 00:40:44,402 to a slightly shorter cross-examination 670 00:40:44,444 --> 00:40:47,238 than we would otherwise have had. 671 00:40:47,322 --> 00:40:49,532 As it was, it was nine days. 672 00:40:49,574 --> 00:40:51,159 That's the longest cross-examination 673 00:40:51,242 --> 00:40:52,702 I've ever seen or heard of. 674 00:40:53,411 --> 00:40:56,289 Lewin: This is my last question. As you sit here right now, 675 00:40:56,373 --> 00:40:59,209 did you kill Susan Berman? 676 00:40:59,250 --> 00:41:00,585 No. 677 00:41:00,669 --> 00:41:03,421 Lewin: But if you had, you would lie about it, correct? 678 00:41:03,463 --> 00:41:06,049 -Correct. -Lewin: Nothing further. 679 00:41:06,091 --> 00:41:09,135 (chair creaking) 680 00:41:12,097 --> 00:41:14,766 ♪♪ 681 00:41:14,808 --> 00:41:18,019 -(leaves rustling) -(phone clicking) 682 00:41:20,313 --> 00:41:21,606 Hi. 683 00:42:01,563 --> 00:42:03,732 newscaster 1 (on TV): At the end of the day, it sounds like 684 00:42:03,815 --> 00:42:06,443 Robert Durst taking the stand was a big mistake. 685 00:42:06,484 --> 00:42:08,611 newscaster 2 (on TV): The decision lies with the defendant, 686 00:42:08,653 --> 00:42:10,655 so it's only his decision. 687 00:42:10,739 --> 00:42:12,323 newscaster 3 (on TV): Yeah, I mean, look. 688 00:42:12,407 --> 00:42:15,577 It was, it was certainly a tough call. 689 00:42:15,618 --> 00:42:18,872 I'm not gonna sit here and question Dick DeGuerin. 690 00:42:33,803 --> 00:42:36,306 Bagli: Bob's legal expenses 691 00:42:36,348 --> 00:42:38,475 for his defense in Los Angeles 692 00:42:38,516 --> 00:42:41,603 soared to about $12 million. 693 00:42:42,645 --> 00:42:45,565 You would've expected a spectacular, 694 00:42:45,648 --> 00:42:47,734 high-tech defense. 695 00:42:47,817 --> 00:42:50,195 DeGuerin: Is this when the gun goes off? 696 00:42:50,236 --> 00:42:51,946 Durst: Yes. 697 00:42:52,030 --> 00:42:54,115 Bagli: But there were glaring examples, 698 00:42:54,199 --> 00:42:56,993 time and again, of poor preparation. 699 00:42:57,035 --> 00:43:00,288 -(stand rattling) -(quiet chatter) 700 00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:02,082 (indistinct) 701 00:43:16,346 --> 00:43:17,722 (laughs) 702 00:43:21,643 --> 00:43:23,603 Lisa DePaulo: I felt bad for DeGuerin. 703 00:43:23,687 --> 00:43:26,731 He was not at the top of his game anymore. 704 00:43:26,815 --> 00:43:28,316 He had to know that. 705 00:43:29,025 --> 00:43:32,195 Whether you like Bob Durst or hate him, 706 00:43:32,237 --> 00:43:36,241 whether you think he's a bad person or a liar, 707 00:43:39,494 --> 00:43:42,747 your duty is to say "not guilty." 708 00:43:44,165 --> 00:43:45,834 Thank you. 709 00:43:45,875 --> 00:43:47,043 ♪♪ 710 00:43:47,085 --> 00:43:49,462 Lewin: I wanna thank you all for your time 711 00:43:49,546 --> 00:43:51,339 and for your attention. 712 00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:55,260 This man has killed three people in this case. 713 00:43:55,635 --> 00:43:56,928 I don't care that he's old. 714 00:43:56,970 --> 00:43:58,888 I don't care that he's sitting in a wheelchair. 715 00:43:58,930 --> 00:44:00,724 I don't care that he's sick. 716 00:44:00,765 --> 00:44:02,934 It's irrelevant! 717 00:44:02,976 --> 00:44:04,602 Do not let 718 00:44:04,644 --> 00:44:06,813 this narcissistic psychopath 719 00:44:06,896 --> 00:44:09,315 get away with what he has done. 720 00:44:09,399 --> 00:44:12,610 There's one verdict in this case, one verdict only. 721 00:44:12,652 --> 00:44:14,779 That is guilty. 722 00:44:16,448 --> 00:44:17,949 (Windham speaking) 723 00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:29,044 newscaster 1: All the evidence is in. The arguments have been made. 724 00:44:29,127 --> 00:44:33,298 The Robert Durst trial is now in the hands of the jury. 725 00:44:39,262 --> 00:44:42,474 -(birds chirping) -(news jingle playing) 726 00:44:43,850 --> 00:44:47,228 newscaster 2 (on TV): Breaking news. The Durst trial has concluded. 727 00:44:47,312 --> 00:44:49,856 Closing arguments, rebuttal, all done. 728 00:44:49,939 --> 00:44:52,400 And up next, the jury has been sent to the room 729 00:44:52,484 --> 00:44:54,611 -with all their instructions to deliberate... -(phone buzzes) 730 00:44:55,737 --> 00:44:57,947 newscaster 2 (on TV): ...starting a clock for the verdict watch... 731 00:44:57,989 --> 00:44:59,491 Jim McCormack: We have to just wait it out, 732 00:44:59,574 --> 00:45:01,201 I guess, is the only way to describe it. 733 00:45:01,284 --> 00:45:04,162 And it's full of a lot of stress and anxiety. 734 00:45:04,204 --> 00:45:07,582 newscaster 3 (on TV): Jury deliberations continue in the murder trial 735 00:45:07,665 --> 00:45:09,376 for the 2000 murder of his friend... 736 00:45:09,459 --> 00:45:11,002 (tense music playing) 737 00:45:11,086 --> 00:45:13,004 Hilda Weiss: There was a whole lotta energy 738 00:45:13,088 --> 00:45:16,132 by the time we got into the deliberation room 739 00:45:16,174 --> 00:45:19,177 of needing to talk to each other, 740 00:45:19,219 --> 00:45:21,763 one of the things that we couldn't do all this time. 741 00:45:21,846 --> 00:45:24,265 -(pens clicking) -(papers rustle) 742 00:45:24,307 --> 00:45:27,185 And then, asking ourselves 743 00:45:27,268 --> 00:45:30,730 what evidence really made a difference to us. 744 00:45:30,814 --> 00:45:33,692 That's when things seemed to... 745 00:45:33,733 --> 00:45:36,403 build intensity. 746 00:45:41,116 --> 00:45:45,203 I stopped guessing about juries a long time ago 747 00:45:45,286 --> 00:45:47,455 because it's either heart-breaking 748 00:45:47,539 --> 00:45:49,290 or great exhilaration 749 00:45:50,875 --> 00:45:54,421 and it doesn't do any good to read tea leaves. 750 00:45:54,504 --> 00:45:57,382 We begin this hour in Los Angeles, California, 751 00:45:57,424 --> 00:46:00,677 where day two of deliberations in the Jinx murder trial 752 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,220 ended without a verdict. 753 00:46:02,303 --> 00:46:04,597 (TV news chatter) 754 00:46:04,681 --> 00:46:06,808 Nick Chavin: My wife and I think about how our lives 755 00:46:06,891 --> 00:46:09,436 would change depending on the verdict. 756 00:46:10,103 --> 00:46:12,230 The most frightening thing for her is an acquittal, 757 00:46:12,313 --> 00:46:15,775 which has the madman on the loose. 758 00:46:15,859 --> 00:46:17,193 (TV news chatter) 759 00:46:17,235 --> 00:46:19,404 Terry Chavin: It's really stressful. 760 00:46:19,446 --> 00:46:20,780 Is it gonna be what we want? 761 00:46:20,864 --> 00:46:22,907 Is it gonna be the verdict we want? 762 00:46:22,949 --> 00:46:25,035 You know, he murdered all these people. 763 00:46:25,076 --> 00:46:28,371 How could we let somebody out in our society, 764 00:46:28,413 --> 00:46:29,664 prancing around, 765 00:46:29,748 --> 00:46:31,082 acting like he didn't do anything wrong 766 00:46:31,124 --> 00:46:32,667 when we all see what he did? 767 00:46:32,751 --> 00:46:34,544 Everybody sees what he did. 768 00:46:35,754 --> 00:46:37,589 Jarecki: It doesn't feel real 769 00:46:37,672 --> 00:46:41,176 because the anticipation's been so endless. 770 00:46:41,259 --> 00:46:44,929 And for Jim McCormack, it's been 40 years 771 00:46:44,971 --> 00:46:46,681 of this suspense. 772 00:46:46,765 --> 00:46:49,059 Sharon McCormack: It's been 40 years. 773 00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:51,770 There's always bumps and bumps and bumps 774 00:46:51,853 --> 00:46:53,813 and brick walls, and it just, 775 00:46:53,897 --> 00:46:55,106 it seems to never end. 776 00:46:55,148 --> 00:46:58,401 I just, I pray every day. I just want it to end. 777 00:46:58,443 --> 00:47:01,780 Before our lives end, I want this to end. 778 00:47:01,863 --> 00:47:05,116 ♪♪ 779 00:47:06,659 --> 00:47:08,828 Bagli: Something was in the air 780 00:47:08,912 --> 00:47:11,581 and I wasn't sure what it was. 781 00:47:11,623 --> 00:47:13,833 Then, a court administrator 782 00:47:13,917 --> 00:47:16,294 comes out and whispers, 783 00:47:16,378 --> 00:47:18,296 "We got a verdict." 784 00:47:18,380 --> 00:47:20,423 -Sharon McCormack: Oh, my God! -speaker: Oh, my goodness! 785 00:47:20,465 --> 00:47:23,218 Sharon McCormack: Oh, my God, guys! I'm actually-- 786 00:47:23,301 --> 00:47:25,136 I'm already crying, I'm so worried about this-- 787 00:47:25,220 --> 00:47:28,139 Don't cry. Just get-get me another beer, please. 788 00:47:28,223 --> 00:47:30,892 -(foreboding music playing) -(courtroom chatter) 789 00:47:30,975 --> 00:47:32,352 Windham: I was informed 790 00:47:32,435 --> 00:47:35,939 that they would not transport Mr. Durst to court 791 00:47:35,980 --> 00:47:39,025 because he had been exposed to COVID. 792 00:47:40,443 --> 00:47:43,238 newscaster: Robert Durst is being isolated 793 00:47:43,321 --> 00:47:46,533 after possible COVID exposure. 794 00:47:48,159 --> 00:47:49,411 -(TV chatter) -Now, they're arguing about 795 00:47:49,494 --> 00:47:51,913 the process of actually reading the verdict 796 00:47:51,996 --> 00:47:55,458 for our isolation-bound defendant. 797 00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:56,793 What a joke. 798 00:47:56,835 --> 00:47:59,587 ♪♪ 799 00:47:59,671 --> 00:48:02,507 (quiet chatter) 800 00:48:05,093 --> 00:48:07,303 Weiss: Mr. Lewin was looking at the jurors. 801 00:48:09,389 --> 00:48:12,934 It did go through my mind, "Boy, I wouldn't wanna be sitting 802 00:48:13,018 --> 00:48:15,770 (laughs) in his seat right now." 803 00:48:15,812 --> 00:48:19,774 You don't know for sure what's going to happen. 804 00:48:19,858 --> 00:48:21,735 Windham: Has the jury reached a verdict? 805 00:48:21,818 --> 00:48:23,153 juror: Yes, we have, Your Honor. 806 00:48:38,918 --> 00:48:40,962 -(TV chatter) -Oh, this is torture. 807 00:48:41,046 --> 00:48:42,672 This is torture. 808 00:48:42,714 --> 00:48:45,967 (somber music playing) 809 00:48:59,397 --> 00:49:03,151 clerk: Superior Court of California, County of Los Angeles, 810 00:49:03,568 --> 00:49:06,404 the People of the State of California versus Robert Durst. 811 00:49:08,073 --> 00:49:10,492 (on TV) We, the jury, in the above-entitled action, 812 00:49:10,575 --> 00:49:13,370 find the defendant, Robert Durst... 813 00:49:14,621 --> 00:49:18,291 -...guilty of the crime... -(cheering, clapping) 814 00:49:18,375 --> 00:49:21,211 ...in violation of penal code section 197, section... 815 00:49:21,252 --> 00:49:24,881 -Oh, my God, Jim. Oh, my God. -God. See? 816 00:49:24,923 --> 00:49:27,592 Oh, my God. I'm sorry. 817 00:49:27,634 --> 00:49:29,177 (sniffles, indistinct) 818 00:49:29,260 --> 00:49:31,388 speaker: That's, like, so wonderful. 819 00:49:31,429 --> 00:49:33,056 Sharon McCormack: You don't know what it is. 820 00:49:33,098 --> 00:49:34,766 -(clerk continues indistinctly) -(sniffles) 821 00:49:34,808 --> 00:49:36,601 Lester Holt: Breaking news tonight in the murder trial 822 00:49:36,643 --> 00:49:40,146 of multimillionaire real estate heir Robert Durst. 823 00:49:40,230 --> 00:49:42,941 Robert Durst is found guilty of murder. 824 00:49:42,982 --> 00:49:45,235 Breaking news. Robert Durst convicted 825 00:49:45,276 --> 00:49:47,195 of murdering his best friend in a case 826 00:49:47,278 --> 00:49:48,988 that dates back 20 years. 827 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,283 newscaster: The guilty verdict returned in the last hour... 828 00:49:52,325 --> 00:49:53,952 Jarecki: Bob Durst was just convicted 829 00:49:53,993 --> 00:49:57,622 of first-degree murder of Susan Berman, 830 00:49:57,664 --> 00:49:59,290 and, uh... 831 00:50:00,959 --> 00:50:03,211 (sighs) 832 00:50:04,087 --> 00:50:07,757 people are very emotional about this, me included. 833 00:50:07,799 --> 00:50:11,469 (TV chatter continues) 834 00:50:22,647 --> 00:50:23,773 (weak laugh) 835 00:50:23,815 --> 00:50:26,234 It's hard for Nick to, um... 836 00:50:27,944 --> 00:50:29,738 You know, he saw two different Bobs. 837 00:50:29,821 --> 00:50:31,072 I have different feelings 838 00:50:31,156 --> 00:50:34,117 than everyone else in this room about Bob. 839 00:50:34,909 --> 00:50:36,327 Look, she's... 840 00:50:38,538 --> 00:50:39,664 (Jarecki speaking) 841 00:50:40,999 --> 00:50:43,251 (TV news chatter continues) 842 00:50:45,253 --> 00:50:47,756 -(door creaks) -(distant siren) 843 00:50:47,839 --> 00:50:49,507 (shutters snapping) 844 00:50:49,549 --> 00:50:52,260 Lewin: We just feel really gratified that, 845 00:50:52,344 --> 00:50:55,180 finally, he's been held accountable for what he's done. 846 00:50:55,263 --> 00:50:57,515 It's been 40 years. You know, he's 78 years old, 847 00:50:57,557 --> 00:51:00,226 and he's been walking around for a long time. 848 00:51:00,310 --> 00:51:02,187 He had a lot more of a life... 849 00:51:02,228 --> 00:51:04,356 You know, Kathie didn't make 30. 850 00:51:04,439 --> 00:51:07,067 -Okay, guys. -reporter: Thank you. 851 00:51:07,150 --> 00:51:10,362 -(suitcase rattling) -(reporters chattering) 852 00:51:14,783 --> 00:51:17,535 ♪♪ 853 00:51:17,619 --> 00:51:19,746 Jarecki: How did Bob find out about the verdict? 854 00:51:20,997 --> 00:51:22,624 I don't know. 855 00:51:23,917 --> 00:51:28,713 His lawyers' duty would be to tell him about the verdict. 856 00:51:30,298 --> 00:51:32,467 Jarecki: Do you remember how Bob learned 857 00:51:32,550 --> 00:51:35,428 about the verdict, if he wasn't in court? 858 00:51:35,512 --> 00:51:37,138 No, I don't. 859 00:51:38,473 --> 00:51:41,309 Jarecki: Do you know how he found out about the verdict? 860 00:51:42,018 --> 00:51:43,812 That's a good question. 861 00:51:44,437 --> 00:51:47,565 I really don't, Andrew. I'm sorry. 862 00:51:47,649 --> 00:51:48,817 (birds chirping) 863 00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:51,778 Bagli: The day that the jury returned its verdict, 864 00:51:51,861 --> 00:51:55,115 Bob was in his cell. 865 00:51:55,198 --> 00:51:58,159 And his lawyers left town 866 00:51:58,243 --> 00:52:01,579 immediately afterward without speaking to him. 867 00:52:01,621 --> 00:52:04,249 (breeze blowing) 868 00:52:04,290 --> 00:52:06,793 Nobody told Bob until the next day 869 00:52:06,876 --> 00:52:08,128 that he had been convicted. 870 00:52:08,837 --> 00:52:13,341 None of Bob's lawyers told him he was convicted? 871 00:52:15,093 --> 00:52:18,304 None of the four members of the defense team. 872 00:52:18,388 --> 00:52:20,306 Jarecki: Somebody must've told him. 873 00:52:20,932 --> 00:52:23,768 -Somebody else. -(sniffs) Somebody else. 874 00:52:23,852 --> 00:52:26,896 (ominous music playing) 875 00:52:30,567 --> 00:52:32,610 interviewer: Do you know who informed Robert Durst 876 00:52:32,694 --> 00:52:34,029 that the jury had found him guilty? 877 00:52:34,112 --> 00:52:36,072 -Yes, I do. -interviewer: And who was that? 878 00:52:36,114 --> 00:52:37,657 That was me. 879 00:52:37,741 --> 00:52:39,284 interviewer: And where did you do that? 880 00:52:39,367 --> 00:52:41,536 At the Los Angeles County Jail. 881 00:52:41,619 --> 00:52:43,621 ♪♪ 882 00:52:43,663 --> 00:52:46,249 Jarecki: And what was Alan's role in the case? 883 00:52:46,291 --> 00:52:49,753 He was there, I think, as a representative of, uh, 884 00:52:49,794 --> 00:52:52,464 of Debbie as a lawyer. 885 00:52:54,007 --> 00:52:56,176 -interviewer: Are you currently an attorney? -Yes, I am. 886 00:52:56,259 --> 00:52:58,053 interviewer: And what type of law do you practice? 887 00:52:58,136 --> 00:53:01,139 -It's criminal defense. -interviewer: Okay. 888 00:53:01,181 --> 00:53:02,682 Jarecki: Why did Debbie need a lawyer? 889 00:53:02,766 --> 00:53:05,060 I don't know. You'd have to ask Alan or Debbie. 890 00:53:05,143 --> 00:53:07,354 Maybe you'll get a chance. I don't know. 891 00:53:08,063 --> 00:53:09,647 interviewer: Without divulging any 892 00:53:09,731 --> 00:53:11,775 attorney-client privileged communications, 893 00:53:11,816 --> 00:53:14,319 do you have an understanding as to why Ms. Charatan 894 00:53:14,402 --> 00:53:16,237 retained a criminal attorney? 895 00:53:18,073 --> 00:53:20,033 I know why she retained me. 896 00:53:20,116 --> 00:53:22,619 (dramatic crescendo) 897 00:53:24,662 --> 00:53:28,833 ("Suicide" by Mondo Boys playing) 898 00:53:36,007 --> 00:53:37,884 ♪ I'll tell ♪ 899 00:53:37,967 --> 00:53:39,844 ♪ You a thing ♪ 900 00:53:40,845 --> 00:53:42,389 ♪ I heard ♪ 901 00:53:42,472 --> 00:53:44,557 ♪ Down at the spot ♪ 902 00:53:45,392 --> 00:53:47,394 ♪ That God ♪ 903 00:53:47,477 --> 00:53:49,270 ♪ I've been prayin' ♪ 904 00:53:49,854 --> 00:53:53,483 ♪ So take everything you got ♪ 905 00:53:55,485 --> 00:53:58,697 ♪ Put 'em all together, shake it side to side ♪ 906 00:54:00,323 --> 00:54:03,785 ♪ Mix it up and call it suicide ♪ 907 00:54:05,036 --> 00:54:08,456 ♪ Put 'em all together, shake it side to side ♪ 908 00:54:09,749 --> 00:54:13,003 ♪ Mix it up and call it suicide ♪ 909 00:54:14,587 --> 00:54:17,632 (vocalizing) 910 00:54:35,942 --> 00:54:38,987 (vocalizing) 911 00:55:00,925 --> 00:55:03,970 (vocalizing) 912 00:55:09,851 --> 00:55:13,021 ♪ Put 'em all together, shake it side to side ♪ 913 00:55:14,689 --> 00:55:17,942 ♪ Mix it up and call it suicide ♪ 914 00:55:19,194 --> 00:55:22,447 (vocalizing) 915 00:55:38,463 --> 00:55:41,716 ♪ Put 'em all together, shake it side to side ♪ 916 00:55:43,009 --> 00:55:46,471 ♪ Mix it up and call it suicide ♪ 917 00:55:47,806 --> 00:55:50,809 (vocalizing) 918 00:55:59,234 --> 00:56:01,486 (song fades out)