1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:06,745 --> 00:00:08,660 [cheery music] 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:08,747 --> 00:00:11,620 [coffee trickling] 5 00:00:11,707 --> 00:00:18,627 ♪ ♪ 6 00:00:22,065 --> 00:00:24,981 [soft rumbling] 7 00:00:26,722 --> 00:00:28,550 - Lisa. 8 00:00:28,637 --> 00:00:30,160 You're trying to make this a documentary? 9 00:00:30,247 --> 00:00:31,292 What are you trying to do with it? 10 00:00:31,379 --> 00:00:33,033 - It's gonna be a documentary 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,644 trying to figure out what happened to the Automat. 12 00:00:35,731 --> 00:00:38,212 - So how it began, how it blossomed, 13 00:00:38,299 --> 00:00:39,822 and how it-- how it ended, right? 14 00:00:39,909 --> 00:00:41,215 - Yeah. 15 00:00:41,302 --> 00:00:42,433 - The big thing is the nickels, 16 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,000 the little windows-- 17 00:00:44,087 --> 00:00:45,001 that's the big thing. 18 00:00:45,088 --> 00:00:46,263 It's the Automat. 19 00:00:46,350 --> 00:00:47,830 You can drift a little 20 00:00:47,917 --> 00:00:49,832 to the good old times back then, 21 00:00:49,919 --> 00:00:52,443 but you've got to concentrate on the Automat. 22 00:00:52,530 --> 00:00:53,575 - Yes. 23 00:00:53,662 --> 00:00:54,793 - I-I will, you know-- 24 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,752 I'm gonna give you what I can 25 00:00:56,839 --> 00:00:59,885 in terms of time and effort, you know, 26 00:00:59,972 --> 00:01:03,976 and I'll try to write the song for you, 27 00:01:04,064 --> 00:01:06,327 but let's get some other names, 28 00:01:06,414 --> 00:01:08,068 other people who remember about the Automat, 29 00:01:08,155 --> 00:01:09,330 'cause it's important. 30 00:01:09,417 --> 00:01:10,679 - Okay. 31 00:01:10,766 --> 00:01:13,638 [wondrous music] 32 00:01:13,725 --> 00:01:20,645 ♪ ♪ 33 00:01:37,445 --> 00:01:39,664 - Of course, when you say Automat 34 00:01:39,751 --> 00:01:41,492 or Horn & Hardart, 35 00:01:41,579 --> 00:01:44,539 very few people know what you're talking about, 36 00:01:44,626 --> 00:01:47,107 but one of the greatest inventions 37 00:01:47,194 --> 00:01:52,982 in insane centers of paradise 38 00:01:53,069 --> 00:01:57,943 were these places that had little glass windows 39 00:01:58,030 --> 00:02:00,598 framed in brass with knobs. 40 00:02:00,685 --> 00:02:03,471 And if you put two nickels into the slot 41 00:02:03,558 --> 00:02:07,866 next to the windows, the windows would open up, 42 00:02:07,953 --> 00:02:11,522 and you could take out a piece of lemon meringue pie 43 00:02:11,609 --> 00:02:15,613 for 10¢, and you could eat it. 44 00:02:15,700 --> 00:02:17,311 And that was called the Automat. 45 00:02:17,398 --> 00:02:21,141 ♪ ♪ 46 00:02:22,620 --> 00:02:25,841 I suggest you do some narration 47 00:02:25,928 --> 00:02:30,019 at the beginning just-- to frame 48 00:02:30,106 --> 00:02:33,631 what you're gonna talk about, you know, with pictures. 49 00:02:33,718 --> 00:02:35,503 You have enough pictures of Automats? 50 00:02:35,590 --> 00:02:37,809 - [chuckles] 51 00:02:37,896 --> 00:02:40,290 How you doing, kid? 52 00:02:40,377 --> 00:02:42,553 Let me see if I can help you out. 53 00:02:44,381 --> 00:02:45,774 - See that? - All kinds of stuff. 54 00:02:45,861 --> 00:02:47,428 - Let me see. - Look at that. 55 00:02:47,515 --> 00:02:48,994 - I didn't know he had all this stuff. 56 00:02:49,081 --> 00:02:50,648 - Where did you get all of these photos? 57 00:02:50,735 --> 00:02:52,737 - Every time we built something, 58 00:02:52,824 --> 00:02:54,086 we always saved all the pictures. 59 00:02:57,525 --> 00:03:00,745 - Sure, but what possessed you? 60 00:03:00,832 --> 00:03:02,834 You're about 11. 61 00:03:02,921 --> 00:03:04,314 What--what made you even think 62 00:03:04,401 --> 00:03:06,403 about doing a show about the Automat? 63 00:03:06,490 --> 00:03:08,449 [projector whirring] 64 00:03:08,536 --> 00:03:11,191 - Even though Horn & Hardart only operated in two cities, 65 00:03:11,278 --> 00:03:14,281 in its day and for many decades, 66 00:03:14,368 --> 00:03:16,021 it was the largest restaurant chain in America 67 00:03:16,108 --> 00:03:17,371 by any measure. 68 00:03:17,458 --> 00:03:18,894 The number of restaurants it had, 69 00:03:18,981 --> 00:03:21,026 the number of people it served every day, 70 00:03:21,113 --> 00:03:23,507 the number of people it employed. 71 00:03:23,594 --> 00:03:25,683 It was a true phenomenon of its time. 72 00:03:25,770 --> 00:03:27,163 - Well, how about the Automat? 73 00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:28,686 I heard a lot about that place. 74 00:03:28,773 --> 00:03:31,733 - It was what Philadelphia was all about. 75 00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:34,344 When you said Philadelphia, you said Horn & Hardart. 76 00:03:34,431 --> 00:03:36,303 They were interchangeable. 77 00:03:36,390 --> 00:03:37,782 - When you thought of the Automat, 78 00:03:37,869 --> 00:03:39,610 you thought of New York, and vice versa. 79 00:03:39,697 --> 00:03:41,438 It was a tourist destination 80 00:03:41,525 --> 00:03:42,961 on par with the Statue of Liberty. 81 00:03:43,048 --> 00:03:45,181 [horn honking] 82 00:03:45,268 --> 00:03:49,794 - The little cubicles that the food would come out of... 83 00:03:49,881 --> 00:03:51,274 - Allow me. 84 00:03:51,361 --> 00:03:54,103 - I mean, I've never seen anything like it. 85 00:03:54,190 --> 00:03:57,106 - It was the excitement, discovery, surprise, 86 00:03:57,193 --> 00:04:00,762 and delight on my first visit as a young boy 87 00:04:00,849 --> 00:04:04,679 that inspired me to think about the experience 88 00:04:04,766 --> 00:04:07,595 I wanted to create at Starbucks Coffee Company. 89 00:04:07,682 --> 00:04:09,901 - Is there anything else that you want? 90 00:04:09,988 --> 00:04:11,599 - Yes, I'd like another cup of coffee. 91 00:04:11,686 --> 00:04:13,253 - At your service. 92 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:16,212 [light music] 93 00:04:16,299 --> 00:04:18,170 ♪ ♪ 94 00:04:18,258 --> 00:04:21,086 - I didn't realize how good it was until, like, 95 00:04:21,173 --> 00:04:27,658 there were no more Automats, and I miss them. 96 00:04:27,745 --> 00:04:29,617 You might be-- where would you show this? 97 00:04:29,704 --> 00:04:32,054 There are film festivals all over, 98 00:04:32,141 --> 00:04:33,925 but do they show this kind of thing? 99 00:04:34,012 --> 00:04:38,452 It'd have to be over an hour for it to be a documentary 100 00:04:38,539 --> 00:04:40,758 in a--in a theater, you know? 101 00:04:40,845 --> 00:04:42,282 Is there anybody alive from Horn & Hardart? 102 00:04:44,893 --> 00:04:46,503 - I'm standing at the corner 103 00:04:46,590 --> 00:04:49,550 of Third Avenue and 42nd Street. 104 00:04:49,637 --> 00:04:54,903 This location was the last Automat that existed. 105 00:04:54,990 --> 00:04:57,862 - Do you remember when the last Automat closed? 106 00:04:57,949 --> 00:04:59,690 - Oh, yes. 107 00:04:59,777 --> 00:05:02,040 I closed it. I'm the one who closed it. 108 00:05:03,041 --> 00:05:05,740 - The Automat closing, unfortunately, 109 00:05:05,827 --> 00:05:09,221 said something about the way that the world was going to be. 110 00:05:09,309 --> 00:05:14,183 They had been the most optimistic imaginable places. 111 00:05:14,270 --> 00:05:17,055 [indistinct chatter] 112 00:05:17,142 --> 00:05:21,669 But an original Automat converted to a Burger King. 113 00:05:21,756 --> 00:05:24,715 This was exactly the opposite. 114 00:05:24,802 --> 00:05:31,200 - I would like to give you a turn button 115 00:05:31,287 --> 00:05:33,768 from the very last Automat. 116 00:05:33,855 --> 00:05:39,164 The employees were able to take pieces of remembrance. 117 00:05:39,251 --> 00:05:40,427 I loved the Automat. 118 00:05:40,514 --> 00:05:44,474 ♪ ♪ 119 00:05:44,561 --> 00:05:47,042 Has anyone given you any indication 120 00:05:47,129 --> 00:05:48,826 of what their thoughts were as to why 121 00:05:48,913 --> 00:05:53,440 this whole demise of the Automat came about? 122 00:05:53,527 --> 00:06:00,360 ♪ ♪ 123 00:06:03,363 --> 00:06:05,582 - Now, what do you wanna know? 124 00:06:05,669 --> 00:06:08,498 - What's your earliest memory of going to the Automat? 125 00:06:08,585 --> 00:06:10,021 [soft music] 126 00:06:10,108 --> 00:06:14,504 - Well, I was born in 1926 in Williamsburg. 127 00:06:14,591 --> 00:06:16,724 That's Brooklyn. 128 00:06:16,811 --> 00:06:18,334 My brothers: 129 00:06:18,421 --> 00:06:20,162 Irving, firstborn, 130 00:06:20,249 --> 00:06:22,033 there in the back, 131 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,298 Lenny, Bernie, and me, Melvin. 132 00:06:26,386 --> 00:06:29,954 ♪ ♪ 133 00:06:30,041 --> 00:06:33,262 We were little boys in Brooklyn, 134 00:06:33,349 --> 00:06:38,485 but if you take the BMT and you go across the bridge, 135 00:06:38,572 --> 00:06:40,835 you can get into this paradise, 136 00:06:40,922 --> 00:06:43,577 this wonderland called New York. 137 00:06:43,664 --> 00:06:44,795 We--we never called it Manhattan. 138 00:06:44,882 --> 00:06:46,449 We called it New York. 139 00:06:46,536 --> 00:06:49,757 We were Brooklyn, and they were New York. 140 00:06:49,844 --> 00:06:53,064 And we lived--all of us lived to get to New York 141 00:06:53,151 --> 00:06:56,503 so that we could visit the Automat. 142 00:06:56,590 --> 00:06:58,026 ♪ ♪ 143 00:06:58,113 --> 00:07:00,376 There is a thin-- I got a book at home. 144 00:07:00,463 --> 00:07:04,032 There is one little book about the Automat. 145 00:07:04,119 --> 00:07:06,251 All about starting in Philadelphia. 146 00:07:06,338 --> 00:07:10,821 ♪ ♪ 147 00:07:10,908 --> 00:07:13,955 - So who wants to do-- 148 00:07:14,042 --> 00:07:15,522 Probably you should if she's-- 149 00:07:15,609 --> 00:07:18,568 - Okay, I'll do--I'll do Horn. Right. Okay. 150 00:07:18,655 --> 00:07:21,441 Well, Joe Horn came from Philadelphia. 151 00:07:21,528 --> 00:07:23,530 His two brothers were in the restaurant business, 152 00:07:23,617 --> 00:07:26,141 and he wanted a restaurant, too, 153 00:07:26,228 --> 00:07:28,578 so he goes on a cross-country trip 154 00:07:28,665 --> 00:07:30,928 all over the country to just sort of figure out 155 00:07:31,015 --> 00:07:33,627 the kind of restaurant he wanted. 156 00:07:33,714 --> 00:07:35,803 One day, he's in Boston 157 00:07:35,890 --> 00:07:39,459 and he goes to Thompson's Spa for lunch, 158 00:07:39,546 --> 00:07:42,592 and he sees the way the place is working, 159 00:07:42,679 --> 00:07:44,899 and he sees these people being served coffee. 160 00:07:44,986 --> 00:07:48,424 The whole choreography that just enchanted him, 161 00:07:48,511 --> 00:07:51,601 and the--the bulb clicked in his head, and he said, 162 00:07:51,688 --> 00:07:55,692 "This is exactly the kind of place I want to open." 163 00:07:55,779 --> 00:07:58,565 So he put an ad in the paper 164 00:07:58,652 --> 00:08:02,569 saying that he needed someone to co-partner with him, 165 00:08:02,656 --> 00:08:06,442 and enter Frank Hardart. 166 00:08:06,529 --> 00:08:08,444 - My great-grandfather, Frank Hardart, 167 00:08:08,531 --> 00:08:10,925 he spent his youth in New Orleans 168 00:08:11,012 --> 00:08:13,580 working in the kitchens of restaurants. 169 00:08:13,667 --> 00:08:17,105 - At the time, New Orleans was the only city in the country 170 00:08:17,192 --> 00:08:21,892 that was making French pressed or French drip coffee. 171 00:08:21,979 --> 00:08:24,242 He understood how special it was, 172 00:08:24,329 --> 00:08:27,115 and he knew that once he got the rest of the country 173 00:08:27,202 --> 00:08:29,944 to taste it, they would appreciate it too. 174 00:08:30,031 --> 00:08:32,120 - So Frank came up to Philadelphia 175 00:08:32,207 --> 00:08:34,775 on this mission to get working in a restaurant 176 00:08:34,862 --> 00:08:37,255 and bring that coffee from New Orleans 177 00:08:37,342 --> 00:08:39,823 to the city of brotherly love, 178 00:08:39,910 --> 00:08:42,478 but he faced continual rejection 179 00:08:42,565 --> 00:08:47,962 until, as folklore has it, he saw an ad in a newspaper. 180 00:08:48,049 --> 00:08:49,703 - And the rest is history. - And the rest is history. 181 00:08:49,790 --> 00:08:52,009 - Yeah, exactly. 182 00:08:53,315 --> 00:08:56,710 They opened their first place at 39 South 13th Street, 183 00:08:56,797 --> 00:08:58,407 but they didn't have Automats yet. 184 00:08:58,494 --> 00:09:01,062 Frank was in the back doing the cooking, 185 00:09:01,149 --> 00:09:05,153 and Joe was out front tending to the customers. 186 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:10,158 - For Joe Horn, courtesy was the word. 187 00:09:10,245 --> 00:09:13,509 He was the one driving home how to create an environment 188 00:09:13,596 --> 00:09:15,511 that was all about treating people well. 189 00:09:15,598 --> 00:09:17,557 - And Frank was focused on making sure 190 00:09:17,644 --> 00:09:20,037 that everyone got to taste that wonderful 191 00:09:20,124 --> 00:09:22,474 New Orleans coffee, and it worked. 192 00:09:22,562 --> 00:09:23,737 [bell dinging] 193 00:09:23,824 --> 00:09:25,260 After a little while, 194 00:09:25,347 --> 00:09:26,478 they opened another restaurant, 195 00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:30,047 and then another restaurant. 196 00:09:30,134 --> 00:09:31,875 - Around the time Horn & Hardart were opening 197 00:09:31,962 --> 00:09:33,877 their first restaurants in Philadelphia, 198 00:09:33,964 --> 00:09:36,227 the automatic restaurant was showing up 199 00:09:36,314 --> 00:09:38,795 in various parts of Northern Europe. 200 00:09:38,882 --> 00:09:41,668 These restaurants were basically dumbwaiter systems 201 00:09:41,755 --> 00:09:45,280 where you would order something in a dining room upstairs, 202 00:09:45,367 --> 00:09:47,543 and that order would be conveyed to people downstairs 203 00:09:47,630 --> 00:09:48,762 who'd prepare the food and then send it up 204 00:09:48,849 --> 00:09:50,459 via a small dumbwaiter. 205 00:09:50,546 --> 00:09:53,027 Frank Hardart discovered this Automat in Germany 206 00:09:53,114 --> 00:09:55,420 and arranged to import the entire Automat 207 00:09:55,507 --> 00:09:57,553 along with some engineers to install it 208 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,294 in what was then 209 00:09:59,381 --> 00:10:01,252 the first automatic restaurant in America. 210 00:10:01,339 --> 00:10:04,168 [swanky music] 211 00:10:04,255 --> 00:10:05,735 ♪ ♪ 212 00:10:05,822 --> 00:10:09,086 - So wait, you're an Automat historian. 213 00:10:09,173 --> 00:10:11,480 How did you pick that for your PhD dissertation? 214 00:10:11,567 --> 00:10:14,657 - That's not a--[laughs] 215 00:10:14,744 --> 00:10:16,659 So that-- 216 00:10:16,746 --> 00:10:19,096 I chose the Automat as a--as a topic. 217 00:10:19,183 --> 00:10:21,577 I was studying to become a historian of technology. 218 00:10:21,664 --> 00:10:23,361 I needed a topic for my dissertation, 219 00:10:23,448 --> 00:10:25,233 and I was in Amsterdam at the time 220 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,931 when I stumbled across the Automatiek. 221 00:10:28,018 --> 00:10:29,977 That triggered this vague memory 222 00:10:30,064 --> 00:10:32,893 because my parents took me to one of--this restaurant 223 00:10:32,980 --> 00:10:35,330 that I thought had had the same sort of machine, 224 00:10:35,417 --> 00:10:37,724 and when I returned, I started researching, 225 00:10:37,811 --> 00:10:39,073 and only to discover that 226 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,031 that wasn't just any restaurant. 227 00:10:41,118 --> 00:10:43,338 That was Horn & Hardart, 228 00:10:43,425 --> 00:10:45,819 and I had my chance to, like any other kid, 229 00:10:45,906 --> 00:10:48,778 choose from the dozens and dozens of boxes. 230 00:10:53,957 --> 00:10:55,480 This was the last Automat, 231 00:10:55,567 --> 00:10:59,659 the fourth generation of that machine. 232 00:10:59,746 --> 00:11:01,443 The first generation was the one 233 00:11:01,530 --> 00:11:04,359 that Hardart himself brought back from Germany. 234 00:11:04,446 --> 00:11:06,448 - What is, in effect, 235 00:11:06,535 --> 00:11:09,059 the first Horn & Hardart cafeteria 236 00:11:09,146 --> 00:11:12,323 was not really efficient. 237 00:11:12,410 --> 00:11:14,499 Fortunately, Horn & Hardart 238 00:11:14,586 --> 00:11:17,981 had a chief engineer named John Fritsche. 239 00:11:18,068 --> 00:11:19,504 - Fritsche developed a lot of patents 240 00:11:19,591 --> 00:11:22,377 related to the Automat technology. 241 00:11:22,464 --> 00:11:25,249 He introduced the fundamental innovation of the drum. 242 00:11:25,336 --> 00:11:28,992 He found ways to make them hold both hot and cold food. 243 00:11:29,079 --> 00:11:31,865 He changed the way the coin slots worked. 244 00:11:31,952 --> 00:11:35,042 - Fritsche came up with the vending machine wall 245 00:11:35,129 --> 00:11:38,567 and all the little doors. 246 00:11:38,654 --> 00:11:40,612 - America at this time had a real fascination 247 00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:42,832 with machine-age technology, 248 00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:46,314 and anything that acted like that had a big attraction. 249 00:11:46,401 --> 00:11:49,099 And very quickly, Horn & Hardart's new Automat 250 00:11:49,186 --> 00:11:51,536 was a success in Philadelphia. 251 00:11:51,623 --> 00:11:55,584 [bright sweeping music] 252 00:11:55,671 --> 00:11:58,892 And the decision to expand to New York was an obvious one. 253 00:11:58,979 --> 00:12:02,199 It was the next really large industrial urban center. 254 00:12:02,286 --> 00:12:04,245 ♪ ♪ 255 00:12:04,332 --> 00:12:05,942 - And that was the beginning of one 256 00:12:06,029 --> 00:12:08,249 of the most successful restaurant chains 257 00:12:08,336 --> 00:12:09,816 in America ever. 258 00:12:09,903 --> 00:12:11,731 ♪ ♪ 259 00:12:11,818 --> 00:12:13,950 - My big brother, Irving, used to come at the beginning 260 00:12:14,037 --> 00:12:15,865 when I was very little, 261 00:12:15,952 --> 00:12:19,608 and he would dole out whatever it was, 262 00:12:19,695 --> 00:12:22,045 five nickels to each of us. 263 00:12:22,132 --> 00:12:23,917 That was our lunch. 264 00:12:24,004 --> 00:12:26,310 We had to figure out what we could get for that, 265 00:12:26,397 --> 00:12:28,704 'cause we were poor, you know? 266 00:12:28,791 --> 00:12:31,620 No money, but that was the great thing 267 00:12:31,707 --> 00:12:33,100 about the Automat. 268 00:12:33,187 --> 00:12:34,188 You didn't need a lot of money. 269 00:12:34,275 --> 00:12:35,624 You needed a lot of nickels, 270 00:12:35,711 --> 00:12:36,886 but you didn't need a lot of money. 271 00:12:37,495 --> 00:12:40,324 [peppy piano music] 272 00:12:40,411 --> 00:12:47,288 ♪ ♪ 273 00:13:07,003 --> 00:13:08,788 - All right. Recording. 274 00:13:08,875 --> 00:13:11,921 - Okay, Lisa Keller. Take one. 275 00:13:12,008 --> 00:13:13,923 The question is, the Automat 276 00:13:14,010 --> 00:13:16,970 hasn't been an active cultural force in decades, 277 00:13:17,057 --> 00:13:19,711 but it's something that still resonates with New Yorkers, 278 00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:22,192 and why is that? 279 00:13:22,279 --> 00:13:24,368 - Horn & Hardart--oh, okay. 280 00:13:24,455 --> 00:13:25,935 Let me start at the beginning. 281 00:13:29,504 --> 00:13:32,899 Horn & Hardart is a cultural icon in New York. 282 00:13:34,770 --> 00:13:38,687 In the immigration wave from 1880 to 1920, 283 00:13:38,774 --> 00:13:42,212 the immigrants who came to New York 284 00:13:42,299 --> 00:13:45,346 were looking for something American, 285 00:13:45,433 --> 00:13:51,004 and Horn & Hardart served as an Americanization process. 286 00:13:51,091 --> 00:13:53,180 If you could go there, you could feel like 287 00:13:53,267 --> 00:13:57,967 you were part of the larger American stream. 288 00:13:58,054 --> 00:14:00,665 Horn & Hardart, like the subways linked us 289 00:14:00,752 --> 00:14:03,799 and were universally accessible, 290 00:14:03,886 --> 00:14:05,409 didn't matter whether you were rich or poor. 291 00:14:05,496 --> 00:14:07,672 When you had to travel, you took a subway. 292 00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:12,199 When you had to eat, you went to the Horn & Hardart. 293 00:14:12,286 --> 00:14:13,678 We know you don't need English 294 00:14:13,765 --> 00:14:16,638 because nobody has to speak. 295 00:14:16,725 --> 00:14:18,858 In a land of foreigners, 296 00:14:18,945 --> 00:14:22,035 that became a place of identification, 297 00:14:22,122 --> 00:14:25,821 and you feel almost patriotic. 298 00:14:25,908 --> 00:14:28,824 [soft music] 299 00:14:28,911 --> 00:14:35,222 ♪ ♪ 300 00:14:35,309 --> 00:14:37,877 - At that same time, a new class of clientele 301 00:14:37,964 --> 00:14:39,748 started to come in the cities, 302 00:14:39,835 --> 00:14:42,403 drawn in by the new office work that was being created. 303 00:14:42,490 --> 00:14:44,231 They started flooding into cafeterias 304 00:14:44,318 --> 00:14:46,233 and into the Automats. 305 00:14:47,321 --> 00:14:50,280 - Women were just coming into the workforce. 306 00:14:50,367 --> 00:14:52,326 They were stenographers. They were sales clerks. 307 00:14:52,413 --> 00:14:54,545 They were secretaries. 308 00:14:54,632 --> 00:14:57,897 - Between the 1880s and 1920 or so, 309 00:14:57,984 --> 00:14:59,202 the number of stenographers in New York City 310 00:14:59,289 --> 00:15:03,119 jumped from 5,000 to 300,000. 311 00:15:03,206 --> 00:15:04,816 This enormous growth 312 00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:06,906 in the number of women in the workforce 313 00:15:06,993 --> 00:15:08,559 meant that there was enormous growth in the number of women 314 00:15:08,646 --> 00:15:10,779 who needed to eat lunch out of their homes. 315 00:15:10,866 --> 00:15:13,564 - Well, I've had my lunch. - Good. 316 00:15:13,651 --> 00:15:15,001 - But I'll go with you. 317 00:15:15,088 --> 00:15:16,741 - Not so good. 318 00:15:16,828 --> 00:15:19,962 - Social custom was changing slowly. 319 00:15:20,049 --> 00:15:24,227 Women started being able to go out to eat on their own, 320 00:15:24,314 --> 00:15:28,536 and women of the 1920s went to Horn & Hardart. 321 00:15:28,623 --> 00:15:31,234 It was a place a woman would feel comfortable and safe, 322 00:15:31,321 --> 00:15:33,367 and they had good quality food. 323 00:15:33,454 --> 00:15:35,064 - Yeah, and they didn't have to worry about tipping. 324 00:15:35,151 --> 00:15:37,675 - That was a great thing about the Automat. 325 00:15:37,762 --> 00:15:40,069 You never had to tip. 326 00:15:40,156 --> 00:15:42,115 - It's a very important marriage 327 00:15:42,202 --> 00:15:45,205 between that--the time it came into being 328 00:15:45,292 --> 00:15:49,600 and the sensibilities of women in the workforce. 329 00:15:49,687 --> 00:15:51,689 - At that point, Horn & Hardart in New York, 330 00:15:51,776 --> 00:15:54,301 which had been growing less quickly than Philadelphia, 331 00:15:54,388 --> 00:15:57,608 started growing very rapidly, and before long, 332 00:15:57,695 --> 00:16:00,481 there were a couple of dozen of them throughout the city. 333 00:16:00,568 --> 00:16:03,440 [bright music] 334 00:16:03,527 --> 00:16:06,922 ♪ ♪ 335 00:16:07,009 --> 00:16:09,925 [soft music] 336 00:16:10,012 --> 00:16:15,626 ♪ ♪ 337 00:16:15,713 --> 00:16:17,628 - I'll tell you, 338 00:16:17,715 --> 00:16:21,328 the Automat had panache. 339 00:16:21,415 --> 00:16:22,938 The ceilings were big. 340 00:16:23,025 --> 00:16:25,114 - These were enormous buildings. 341 00:16:25,201 --> 00:16:27,725 - Sometimes there was a half balcony. 342 00:16:27,812 --> 00:16:29,205 - Grandiose design. 343 00:16:29,292 --> 00:16:32,600 - The floors were pristine white marble. 344 00:16:32,687 --> 00:16:35,211 - Brass frames on the little windows. 345 00:16:35,298 --> 00:16:36,560 - Those little doors 346 00:16:36,647 --> 00:16:39,955 and those Carrara marble tables. 347 00:16:40,042 --> 00:16:41,957 - When you looked at the interior, 348 00:16:42,044 --> 00:16:43,524 you felt that you could dance in them. 349 00:16:43,611 --> 00:16:46,614 - And those dolphin spouts, 350 00:16:46,701 --> 00:16:50,966 nowhere was there anything like that. 351 00:16:51,053 --> 00:16:53,838 - When did the dolphin heads come about? 352 00:16:53,925 --> 00:16:55,797 - Yeah, well, they were inspired 353 00:16:55,884 --> 00:17:00,149 by Italian fountains with mythological sea creatures. 354 00:17:00,236 --> 00:17:01,803 - Joe Horn, on a trip to Italy, 355 00:17:01,890 --> 00:17:04,197 had happened to spot these statutes and says, 356 00:17:04,284 --> 00:17:06,938 "Oh, that's gonna be my coffee spout." 357 00:17:09,593 --> 00:17:11,508 So that's where they came from, 358 00:17:11,595 --> 00:17:14,076 but I love the fact that these two men, 359 00:17:14,163 --> 00:17:16,470 Joseph Horn and Frank Hardart, 360 00:17:16,557 --> 00:17:19,168 built this beautiful, beautiful space. 361 00:17:19,255 --> 00:17:22,128 All of that beauty so that someone could walk in there 362 00:17:22,215 --> 00:17:24,434 with a handful of nickels 363 00:17:24,521 --> 00:17:27,481 and get themselves a cup of coffee or some food. 364 00:17:27,568 --> 00:17:30,484 [light music] 365 00:17:30,571 --> 00:17:35,532 ♪ ♪ 366 00:17:35,619 --> 00:17:38,448 - In 1918, through a twist of fate, 367 00:17:38,535 --> 00:17:42,800 just as the Automat came into its own, Frank Hardart died. 368 00:17:42,887 --> 00:17:47,022 ♪ ♪ 369 00:17:47,109 --> 00:17:51,374 - My great-grandfather Frank left the company to his sons, 370 00:17:51,461 --> 00:17:54,812 Augustin and Frank, in New York City. 371 00:17:54,899 --> 00:17:59,382 So it stayed close in the family. 372 00:17:59,469 --> 00:18:01,645 But at that point, it had really become 373 00:18:01,732 --> 00:18:06,520 the Hardarts in New York and the Horns in Philadelphia 374 00:18:06,607 --> 00:18:10,915 because Joe Horn did not want to come to New York. 375 00:18:11,002 --> 00:18:13,179 Joe Horn did not like New York. 376 00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:16,878 ♪ ♪ 377 00:18:16,965 --> 00:18:19,968 - Mr. Horn was very much a Philadelphian. 378 00:18:20,055 --> 00:18:21,578 As a matter of fact, 379 00:18:21,665 --> 00:18:23,276 at the end of a long day in New York, 380 00:18:23,363 --> 00:18:25,060 he would look at everybody and say, 381 00:18:25,147 --> 00:18:27,671 "Thank God for the train to Philadelphia." 382 00:18:27,758 --> 00:18:30,152 [laughing softly] 383 00:18:30,239 --> 00:18:32,502 My name is Edwin K. Daly Jr. 384 00:18:32,589 --> 00:18:35,766 I'm the son of the president of Horn & Hardart, 385 00:18:35,853 --> 00:18:37,377 Edwin K. Daly, who was president 386 00:18:37,464 --> 00:18:42,121 in New York from 1937 to 1960. 387 00:18:42,208 --> 00:18:44,297 - On the phone, when you spoke of Joe Horn, 388 00:18:44,384 --> 00:18:46,690 you said you met him when you were young. 389 00:18:46,777 --> 00:18:49,911 - I certainly met him 50 or 60 times. 390 00:18:49,998 --> 00:18:54,133 To be clear, though, he was called Mr. Horn. 391 00:18:54,220 --> 00:18:58,659 Nobody within range of him referred to him as Joe Horn. 392 00:18:58,746 --> 00:19:01,531 He'd have clobbered somebody who did. 393 00:19:01,618 --> 00:19:05,970 Mr. Horn was a very formal man, 394 00:19:06,057 --> 00:19:08,147 very genial, very pleasant, 395 00:19:08,234 --> 00:19:10,323 but very definitely commanding person. 396 00:19:12,673 --> 00:19:15,850 I always found him very nice. 397 00:19:17,721 --> 00:19:20,202 He certainly established the company's tradition 398 00:19:20,289 --> 00:19:21,899 of making certain that Horn & Hardart 399 00:19:21,986 --> 00:19:24,293 was looking out for its employees. 400 00:19:25,555 --> 00:19:27,209 - For Joe Horn, 401 00:19:27,296 --> 00:19:30,038 right from the start, loyalty was a trademark. 402 00:19:30,125 --> 00:19:32,649 - Joseph Horn actually wanted his employees 403 00:19:32,736 --> 00:19:34,956 to bring their troubles to him. 404 00:19:35,043 --> 00:19:37,959 If he could help them in any way, he would. 405 00:19:38,046 --> 00:19:41,049 - The Horns and the Hardarts, they went to the wakes. 406 00:19:41,136 --> 00:19:44,095 They went to the weddings. They went to the funerals. 407 00:19:44,183 --> 00:19:45,706 They had holiday parties. 408 00:19:45,793 --> 00:19:48,274 [upbeat piano music] 409 00:19:48,361 --> 00:19:49,971 You became a member of a family 410 00:19:50,058 --> 00:19:53,279 when you were employed at Horn & Hardart. 411 00:19:53,366 --> 00:19:55,368 - Joseph Horn started a foundation 412 00:19:55,455 --> 00:19:57,544 so that when his employees were short of money, 413 00:19:57,631 --> 00:19:59,459 missed a mortgage payment, 414 00:19:59,546 --> 00:20:01,852 or anything like that, he was there to help them. 415 00:20:01,939 --> 00:20:03,898 - And that inspired loyalty 416 00:20:03,985 --> 00:20:07,597 that went beyond one generation. 417 00:20:07,684 --> 00:20:10,513 - That was the great strength of the company. 418 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,385 People knew they were cared about. 419 00:20:12,472 --> 00:20:19,348 ♪ ♪ 420 00:20:21,829 --> 00:20:23,744 [utensils clinking] 421 00:20:23,831 --> 00:20:25,572 [indistinct chatter] 422 00:20:25,659 --> 00:20:29,097 - There was a stern woman with a red face, 423 00:20:29,184 --> 00:20:31,708 and her hair piled up, 424 00:20:31,795 --> 00:20:34,624 and she had a little booth, 425 00:20:34,711 --> 00:20:38,062 and the booth had wood, and the wood was very smooth 426 00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:41,283 'cause she used it every day, 427 00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:45,156 changing dollars into nickels. 428 00:20:45,244 --> 00:20:47,724 And when my brother, Irving, 429 00:20:47,811 --> 00:20:50,379 gave her a dollar for all our nickels, 430 00:20:50,466 --> 00:20:52,599 she just reached behind her. 431 00:20:52,686 --> 00:20:54,253 Didn't count a thing. 432 00:20:54,340 --> 00:20:57,778 She grabbed from a bag a bunch of nickels, 433 00:20:57,865 --> 00:20:59,910 and it was always 20 nickels. 434 00:20:59,997 --> 00:21:01,477 Just flipped them. 435 00:21:01,564 --> 00:21:05,264 It was just magic, which thrilled me. 436 00:21:05,351 --> 00:21:09,224 [indistinct chatter] 437 00:21:09,311 --> 00:21:11,487 I said, "I wish I had something like that." 438 00:21:11,574 --> 00:21:15,578 One day, I used to dream, I would have a gift 439 00:21:15,665 --> 00:21:18,755 to stick my hand and come up with 20 nickels. 440 00:21:18,842 --> 00:21:20,670 [projector whirring] 441 00:21:20,757 --> 00:21:22,629 [coins clinking] 442 00:21:24,108 --> 00:21:25,719 - Look at that. 443 00:21:25,806 --> 00:21:27,634 We had a machine that counted the nickels. 444 00:21:27,721 --> 00:21:29,244 - Oh! - Look at this. 445 00:21:29,331 --> 00:21:32,465 - There you go. Cool. 446 00:21:32,552 --> 00:21:34,641 So you had to make sure all of that worked okay? 447 00:21:34,728 --> 00:21:36,947 - Oh, yeah, or they'd lose money. 448 00:21:37,034 --> 00:21:38,297 - Oh, wow. 449 00:21:44,955 --> 00:21:47,349 - Oh, there you go. Up here. 450 00:21:49,133 --> 00:21:50,613 Remember that sign? 451 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:51,745 - There it is. Sure. 452 00:21:51,832 --> 00:21:54,661 These are all your drums. 453 00:21:57,751 --> 00:22:00,536 - How many years were you? 40 plus? 454 00:22:00,623 --> 00:22:02,756 - 44--45. 455 00:22:02,843 --> 00:22:04,714 - And Dad-- - My father had-- 456 00:22:04,801 --> 00:22:06,020 - Was 44? 457 00:22:06,107 --> 00:22:08,196 - Yeah. 458 00:22:08,283 --> 00:22:10,111 My father was one of the first guys 459 00:22:10,198 --> 00:22:12,287 working for the company Horn & Hardart, 460 00:22:12,374 --> 00:22:17,510 and I used to come to New York with him to help him out, 461 00:22:17,597 --> 00:22:20,600 so I learned a lot about the Horn & Hardart equipment 462 00:22:20,687 --> 00:22:21,905 and how it operated. 463 00:22:21,992 --> 00:22:23,994 [projector whirring] 464 00:22:24,081 --> 00:22:25,431 There's--there's the back, see? 465 00:22:25,518 --> 00:22:26,736 - Yeah. - Can you do that? 466 00:22:26,823 --> 00:22:28,434 - Got you. - I guess-- 467 00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:29,478 I'm in charge of all those-- all those drums 468 00:22:29,565 --> 00:22:30,827 and stainless steel stuff. 469 00:22:30,914 --> 00:22:32,916 Look at that. 470 00:22:33,003 --> 00:22:34,135 There's--there's your coffee, see? 471 00:22:34,222 --> 00:22:35,658 - Yeah. 472 00:22:35,745 --> 00:22:38,095 - Coming out of my dolphin head. 473 00:22:38,182 --> 00:22:40,141 I have one upstairs. 474 00:22:41,185 --> 00:22:43,274 There's my dolphin head. 475 00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:44,972 It's amazing, huh? 476 00:22:47,931 --> 00:22:51,892 - You put a nickel into a kind of dolphin... 477 00:22:51,979 --> 00:22:54,503 - And you put a cup underneath the dolphin head's mouth... 478 00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:57,027 - And you push the dolphin's tail. 479 00:22:57,114 --> 00:22:59,421 - There's a tube that comes out of the mouth 480 00:22:59,508 --> 00:23:01,510 that goes into the back, to the machine... 481 00:23:01,597 --> 00:23:05,079 - And coffee would come into a thick little cup. 482 00:23:05,166 --> 00:23:07,211 - Very hot. [laughs] 483 00:23:07,298 --> 00:23:11,346 - Then, right at the end, in an unseen little spigot, 484 00:23:11,433 --> 00:23:13,043 milk would come, 485 00:23:13,130 --> 00:23:16,133 and it would just be a perfect cup of coffee. 486 00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:18,919 - It was very tasty coffee. 487 00:23:19,006 --> 00:23:20,921 - I've been to Paris. I've been to Vienna. 488 00:23:21,008 --> 00:23:24,794 I've paid $35 for a cup of coffee. 489 00:23:24,881 --> 00:23:30,060 Not half as good as that nickel Horn & Hardart coffee. 490 00:23:30,147 --> 00:23:32,236 And if I could save enough nickels, 491 00:23:32,323 --> 00:23:33,934 I could have two cups. 492 00:23:34,021 --> 00:23:35,936 [indistinct chatter] 493 00:23:36,023 --> 00:23:39,592 [projector whirring] 494 00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:40,984 - There's--there's the back. See it? 495 00:23:41,071 --> 00:23:42,029 - Yeah. - How it'd do that? 496 00:23:42,116 --> 00:23:43,944 - Yep. Got you. 497 00:23:44,031 --> 00:23:46,337 - It was my responsibility, if any machine broke, 498 00:23:46,425 --> 00:23:49,428 those machines gotta operate right away. 499 00:23:49,515 --> 00:23:50,951 And there's a lot of machines. 500 00:23:51,038 --> 00:23:53,649 [upbeat music] 501 00:23:53,736 --> 00:23:58,045 - These things were made incredibly solidly. 502 00:23:58,132 --> 00:24:00,134 Some of them were made out of solid brass. 503 00:24:00,221 --> 00:24:02,658 Some of them were made out of solid nickel. 504 00:24:02,745 --> 00:24:05,835 Well, I was an architecturals dealer in New York City, 505 00:24:05,922 --> 00:24:10,449 and one day, a scrap dealer pulled up in his van, 506 00:24:10,536 --> 00:24:12,625 and he said, 507 00:24:12,712 --> 00:24:14,627 "Take a look at this. You interested in this stuff?" 508 00:24:14,714 --> 00:24:16,106 ♪ ♪ 509 00:24:16,193 --> 00:24:17,978 And it was the Automats, 510 00:24:18,065 --> 00:24:19,501 and he had already taken them 511 00:24:19,588 --> 00:24:20,981 to all the architectural dealers, 512 00:24:21,068 --> 00:24:23,113 and some of them bought one. 513 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,463 I told him I'd take them all. 514 00:24:24,550 --> 00:24:26,769 ♪ ♪ 515 00:24:26,856 --> 00:24:30,294 So I was restoring these machines. 516 00:24:30,381 --> 00:24:32,296 I had six of them in my window. 517 00:24:32,383 --> 00:24:33,863 And on a daily basis, 518 00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:35,865 somebody would walk into my shop 519 00:24:35,952 --> 00:24:39,086 with their jaw hanging down, asking, 520 00:24:39,173 --> 00:24:43,046 "Is that what I think it is? Is that the Automat?" 521 00:24:43,133 --> 00:24:45,658 And so many of them had such strong feelings. 522 00:24:45,745 --> 00:24:48,312 I began to look into the history 523 00:24:48,399 --> 00:24:50,053 as deeply as I could. 524 00:24:50,140 --> 00:24:52,099 ♪ ♪ 525 00:24:52,186 --> 00:24:56,277 And my responsibility, I think, about the Automat, 526 00:24:56,364 --> 00:24:58,975 has more to do with the--the concept 527 00:24:59,062 --> 00:25:02,936 of the Automat than it does the machines themselves. 528 00:25:03,023 --> 00:25:05,939 It started with a set of principles. 529 00:25:06,026 --> 00:25:08,028 Mr. Horn and Mr. Hardart said, 530 00:25:08,115 --> 00:25:11,379 "You can do something the right way. 531 00:25:11,466 --> 00:25:13,947 "You don't have to compromise. 532 00:25:14,034 --> 00:25:18,299 "It's harder that way, it's more work, 533 00:25:18,386 --> 00:25:21,868 but you can do it, and you ought to do it." 534 00:25:21,955 --> 00:25:23,739 That's what they said, 535 00:25:23,826 --> 00:25:25,915 and then they proved it by doing it. 536 00:25:26,002 --> 00:25:28,831 [projector whirring] 537 00:25:31,878 --> 00:25:33,444 - Around the turn of the century, 538 00:25:33,532 --> 00:25:35,098 Horn & Hardart were already operating 539 00:25:35,185 --> 00:25:38,145 a small chain of stores, vending mostly baked goods. 540 00:25:38,232 --> 00:25:39,886 [pleasant music] 541 00:25:39,973 --> 00:25:41,583 The problem they had was that each store 542 00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:43,150 was making its own baked goods 543 00:25:43,237 --> 00:25:44,717 and they didn't have the consistency 544 00:25:44,804 --> 00:25:46,109 and the high level of quality they wanted 545 00:25:46,196 --> 00:25:48,155 from one store to the other. 546 00:25:48,242 --> 00:25:51,680 This is what drove them to start on the commissary model, 547 00:25:51,767 --> 00:25:53,900 the centralization of the food preparation 548 00:25:53,987 --> 00:25:57,033 for the entire system. 549 00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:58,948 - Oh, the Horn & Hardart bakery, 550 00:25:59,035 --> 00:26:00,384 you remember the bakery, Dad? 551 00:26:00,471 --> 00:26:03,474 - 11th--to 12th Avenue. 552 00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:06,042 That's where all the food came from. 553 00:26:06,129 --> 00:26:08,392 - Not all, let's be clear on that. 554 00:26:08,479 --> 00:26:10,786 There was cooking in the restaurant, 555 00:26:10,873 --> 00:26:14,181 but a great deal of the food was prepared, 556 00:26:14,268 --> 00:26:16,226 and all of the baked goods, of course, 557 00:26:16,313 --> 00:26:18,402 in a central commissary. 558 00:26:18,489 --> 00:26:19,882 - With their commissary, 559 00:26:19,969 --> 00:26:23,494 they could make 2,400 pies an hour. 560 00:26:23,582 --> 00:26:26,062 And what Horn & Hardart realized 561 00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:29,065 was if you did something on a large enough scale, 562 00:26:29,152 --> 00:26:33,156 you could give people prices they could afford. 563 00:26:33,243 --> 00:26:35,985 - But, to be clear, it was all about quality. 564 00:26:36,072 --> 00:26:38,379 They had the sample table every day 565 00:26:38,466 --> 00:26:41,730 in which the management tasted the food 566 00:26:41,817 --> 00:26:43,427 that was coming out of the bakery 567 00:26:43,514 --> 00:26:45,255 to make sure that the public was getting 568 00:26:45,342 --> 00:26:48,084 what the public was supposed to be getting. 569 00:26:48,171 --> 00:26:50,173 - The trucks supplying the restaurants 570 00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:51,914 numbered in the hundreds in each city 571 00:26:52,001 --> 00:26:54,134 and drove something like 2,000 miles a day. 572 00:26:54,221 --> 00:26:56,919 - So everything was fresh and seasonal. 573 00:26:57,006 --> 00:26:59,269 - It was real. - Seasonal was important, 574 00:26:59,356 --> 00:27:01,707 because that's also the way they kept the cost down, 575 00:27:01,794 --> 00:27:04,100 because they could buy seasonal in bulk. 576 00:27:04,187 --> 00:27:06,059 ♪ ♪ 577 00:27:06,146 --> 00:27:08,888 And that's why, if you didn't have the commissaries, 578 00:27:08,975 --> 00:27:12,543 you wouldn't have a Horn & Hardart Automat. 579 00:27:12,631 --> 00:27:14,676 ♪ ♪ 580 00:27:15,416 --> 00:27:17,679 - The 1930s brought the Great Depression, 581 00:27:17,766 --> 00:27:20,639 which was damaging to almost every business. 582 00:27:20,726 --> 00:27:22,684 Horn & Hardart was a notable exception. 583 00:27:22,771 --> 00:27:25,644 [indistinct chatter] 584 00:27:28,734 --> 00:27:30,518 [soft music] 585 00:27:30,605 --> 00:27:32,825 - The Automat was a welcoming, warm place 586 00:27:32,912 --> 00:27:35,305 in the worst of times. 587 00:27:35,392 --> 00:27:38,308 It appealed to the poor and downtrodden 588 00:27:38,395 --> 00:27:41,311 because, for a nickel, you could get a lot. 589 00:27:41,398 --> 00:27:44,010 - We were providing good, cheap, quality food 590 00:27:44,097 --> 00:27:45,402 when people didn't have 591 00:27:45,489 --> 00:27:47,622 a whole lot of money in their pockets. 592 00:27:47,709 --> 00:27:49,319 - Because of its economies of scale, 593 00:27:49,406 --> 00:27:51,017 because of its ability 594 00:27:51,104 --> 00:27:54,977 to tap into these values of thrift and abundance, 595 00:27:55,064 --> 00:27:57,066 Horn & Hardart's restaurants became a beacon and light 596 00:27:57,153 --> 00:28:00,548 in what was otherwise a really dark decade. 597 00:28:00,635 --> 00:28:03,246 Irving Berlin captured this by having the Vanderbilts 598 00:28:03,333 --> 00:28:06,728 and others of the very rich dining in the Automat. 599 00:28:06,815 --> 00:28:09,426 - There was Irving Berlin "Face the Music," 600 00:28:09,513 --> 00:28:12,952 and the great song that came from that was... 601 00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:15,955 ♪ Let's have another cup of coffee ♪ 602 00:28:16,042 --> 00:28:18,827 ♪ And let's have another piece of pie ♪ 603 00:28:18,914 --> 00:28:21,961 [upbeat music] 604 00:28:22,048 --> 00:28:28,881 ♪ ♪ 605 00:28:36,932 --> 00:28:38,673 [crowd chanting indistinctly] 606 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,241 - 1935 in New York, 607 00:28:41,328 --> 00:28:44,200 and you will recall that that was an era 608 00:28:44,287 --> 00:28:46,942 of a good bit of labor unrest to begin with. 609 00:28:48,857 --> 00:28:51,164 There was a unionizing campaign at that time 610 00:28:51,251 --> 00:28:54,733 which involved some Horn & Hardart employees. 611 00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:56,647 It was quite violent. 612 00:28:56,735 --> 00:28:59,650 [somber music] 613 00:28:59,738 --> 00:29:05,395 ♪ ♪ 614 00:29:05,482 --> 00:29:07,876 In the end, it didn't work. 615 00:29:07,963 --> 00:29:09,965 That's the simplest way I can put it. 616 00:29:10,052 --> 00:29:12,272 Our employees stood by us. 617 00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:13,795 They were loyal to the company. 618 00:29:13,882 --> 00:29:15,275 The company had been loyal to them. 619 00:29:15,362 --> 00:29:18,278 [upbeat music] 620 00:29:18,365 --> 00:29:25,241 ♪ ♪ 621 00:29:27,417 --> 00:29:31,682 By 1941, Mr. Horn had been ill for quite some time. 622 00:29:31,770 --> 00:29:34,120 ♪ ♪ 623 00:29:34,207 --> 00:29:36,905 It was very clear he was going to die. 624 00:29:36,992 --> 00:29:38,602 The day before he died, 625 00:29:38,689 --> 00:29:40,387 Mr. Horn said, "Look, I know I'm gonna die. 626 00:29:40,474 --> 00:29:42,302 "Get me a Horn & Hardart beef pie. 627 00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:44,086 I wanna eat that." 628 00:29:44,173 --> 00:29:45,740 And he did. 629 00:29:45,827 --> 00:29:47,481 It helped him die happy. 630 00:29:48,874 --> 00:29:51,572 [soft music] 631 00:29:51,659 --> 00:29:53,792 - Horn had no children, no successors, 632 00:29:53,879 --> 00:29:55,576 but he had been very careful to groom 633 00:29:55,663 --> 00:29:57,230 one man to take over in his place. 634 00:29:57,317 --> 00:29:59,667 ♪ ♪ 635 00:29:59,754 --> 00:30:01,800 - My father understood financial matters. 636 00:30:01,887 --> 00:30:04,715 He had the training. He had a broad vision. 637 00:30:04,803 --> 00:30:06,369 He was intensely loyal to the company, 638 00:30:06,456 --> 00:30:07,762 and Mr. Horn knew that. 639 00:30:07,849 --> 00:30:09,503 - When Daly took over from Horn 640 00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:12,898 after his death in 1941, 641 00:30:12,985 --> 00:30:14,595 the Horn & Hardart Company expanded 642 00:30:14,682 --> 00:30:16,727 even faster than they had previously. 643 00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:19,730 [light music] 644 00:30:19,818 --> 00:30:26,650 ♪ ♪ 645 00:30:28,304 --> 00:30:31,699 - This was a period with a great deal of growth. 646 00:30:31,786 --> 00:30:34,484 As a matter of fact, during the Second World War, 647 00:30:34,571 --> 00:30:37,139 Horn & Hardart supplied the food on the troopships. 648 00:30:37,226 --> 00:30:40,012 So when the Queen Elizabeth or the Queen Mary 649 00:30:40,099 --> 00:30:43,580 went out of New York carrying troops, 650 00:30:43,667 --> 00:30:45,756 they were eating Horn & Hardart food. 651 00:30:45,844 --> 00:30:48,237 ♪ ♪ 652 00:30:48,324 --> 00:30:50,283 - The 1940s and early '50s 653 00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:51,937 was Horn & Hardart at its finest. 654 00:30:52,024 --> 00:30:53,895 ♪ ♪ 655 00:30:53,982 --> 00:30:58,857 - In 1953, the company served 2,206,000 beef pies, 656 00:30:58,944 --> 00:31:04,863 1,427,000 chicken pies, 10,652,000 dessert pies, 657 00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:10,825 3,388,000 hamburgers, 4,886,000 chopped sirloins, 658 00:31:10,912 --> 00:31:16,700 6,527,000 loaves of bread, 314,000 gallons of baked beans 659 00:31:16,787 --> 00:31:21,270 and 2,355,000 pounds of macaroni. 660 00:31:21,357 --> 00:31:23,098 That's a lot of food. 661 00:31:23,185 --> 00:31:26,754 And they were feeding 800,000 people a day. 662 00:31:26,841 --> 00:31:28,625 - At this time, in terms 663 00:31:28,712 --> 00:31:30,540 of the volume of business that they were doing, 664 00:31:30,627 --> 00:31:32,412 in terms of the number of seats, 665 00:31:32,499 --> 00:31:33,979 the number of people who were being served, 666 00:31:34,066 --> 00:31:35,589 there wasn't anything to compare 667 00:31:35,676 --> 00:31:37,504 with the Horn & Hardart Automat. 668 00:31:37,591 --> 00:31:42,378 ♪ ♪ 669 00:31:42,465 --> 00:31:44,424 - Looks pretty fancy, Fred. 670 00:31:44,511 --> 00:31:46,817 - Yeah, you get your food by putting coins in a slot. 671 00:31:46,905 --> 00:31:50,082 ♪ ♪ 672 00:31:50,169 --> 00:31:51,431 - Hey, got a nickel, Mac? 673 00:31:51,518 --> 00:31:53,041 - Huh? Oh, yeah. 674 00:31:53,128 --> 00:31:54,869 - Thanks. 675 00:31:57,698 --> 00:32:00,527 [soft piano music] 676 00:32:00,614 --> 00:32:02,094 ♪ ♪ 677 00:32:02,181 --> 00:32:05,140 - On Saturdays, I took piano lessons 678 00:32:05,227 --> 00:32:08,839 on West 73rd Street, 679 00:32:08,927 --> 00:32:13,192 and on 72nd Street was an Automat. 680 00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:16,717 I could usually find a table upstairs 681 00:32:16,804 --> 00:32:19,720 where I could read a book or do homework 682 00:32:19,807 --> 00:32:23,550 while eating lunch. 683 00:32:23,637 --> 00:32:26,596 You--you found just the right one. 684 00:32:26,683 --> 00:32:31,253 So the hot table is back here. 685 00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:34,996 On the side, these are all the cubbyholes 686 00:32:35,083 --> 00:32:37,477 with cakes and pastries. 687 00:32:37,564 --> 00:32:41,133 And these are the dispensers 688 00:32:41,220 --> 00:32:45,485 of coffee, tea, hot chocolate. 689 00:32:45,572 --> 00:32:49,445 - When I ask people about the Automat, they light up, 690 00:32:49,532 --> 00:32:52,144 and I'm just wondering, why do you think people love 691 00:32:52,231 --> 00:32:55,538 the Automat so much and remember it so fondly? 692 00:32:57,366 --> 00:32:58,628 - It was a good place to eat. 693 00:32:58,715 --> 00:33:01,370 The food was delicious, 694 00:33:01,457 --> 00:33:04,634 the prices were right, 695 00:33:04,721 --> 00:33:09,204 but more than that, I think it was the fact 696 00:33:09,291 --> 00:33:12,991 that there were all kinds of people, 697 00:33:13,078 --> 00:33:18,866 from poor people to matrons in furs. 698 00:33:18,953 --> 00:33:22,565 - You're sitting at a table with a bunch of people, 699 00:33:22,652 --> 00:33:24,437 one of whom might be a businessman. 700 00:33:24,524 --> 00:33:26,134 Another person might be a worker. 701 00:33:26,221 --> 00:33:28,658 Another person might be an artist. 702 00:33:28,745 --> 00:33:32,706 - It was an unspoken rule that if there was no empty table, 703 00:33:32,793 --> 00:33:36,536 you could sit next to anybody who was already eating. 704 00:33:36,623 --> 00:33:38,146 - It was true. 705 00:33:38,233 --> 00:33:39,974 You'd see--at a table, you'd see a bum 706 00:33:40,061 --> 00:33:41,845 with an empty cup of coffee, 707 00:33:41,932 --> 00:33:45,240 someone on your left, he'd get some hot water, 708 00:33:45,327 --> 00:33:48,156 and he'd put some mustard or ketchup in it, 709 00:33:48,243 --> 00:33:51,638 and he'd have, like, a condiment soup. 710 00:33:51,725 --> 00:33:54,423 - There was no question that the company's policy 711 00:33:54,510 --> 00:33:57,557 was distinctly serve everybody 712 00:33:57,644 --> 00:33:59,689 and serve everybody the same way. 713 00:33:59,776 --> 00:34:02,040 ♪ ♪ 714 00:34:02,127 --> 00:34:05,130 - It was revolutionary in a way, 715 00:34:05,217 --> 00:34:08,002 very democratic. 716 00:34:08,089 --> 00:34:10,483 - This was a remarkable place. 717 00:34:10,570 --> 00:34:16,532 An amazingly optimistic view of what the future could be. 718 00:34:16,619 --> 00:34:20,058 It said, "There's enough for everybody." 719 00:34:20,145 --> 00:34:23,365 - And it had certain cultural markers 720 00:34:23,452 --> 00:34:26,368 that made it a truly American place, 721 00:34:26,455 --> 00:34:31,286 ironically, for a non-American audience. 722 00:34:31,373 --> 00:34:35,551 - Yes, this is the great USA with people 723 00:34:35,638 --> 00:34:38,598 of all different colors and religions 724 00:34:38,685 --> 00:34:43,124 and manner of dress, 725 00:34:43,211 --> 00:34:46,997 and yet we are all together. 726 00:34:48,825 --> 00:34:49,957 [horn honking] 727 00:34:50,044 --> 00:34:51,785 [indistinct chatter] 728 00:34:51,872 --> 00:34:53,308 - The one we would usually go to is the Automat 729 00:34:53,395 --> 00:34:55,397 that was on 42nd Street. 730 00:34:55,484 --> 00:34:56,877 I never even thought about the fact 731 00:34:56,964 --> 00:34:58,444 that, "I'm a Black kid. 732 00:34:58,531 --> 00:34:59,967 "Should I go into Horn & Hardart? 733 00:35:00,054 --> 00:35:01,882 Is it okay to go to the Automat?" 734 00:35:01,969 --> 00:35:03,884 All the Automats had that beautiful diversity 735 00:35:03,971 --> 00:35:06,843 that didn't exist in most of the rest of the country, 736 00:35:06,930 --> 00:35:09,411 of economic standing, of color, 737 00:35:09,498 --> 00:35:11,979 of ethnicity, of language. 738 00:35:12,066 --> 00:35:14,373 You never knew what you'd run into in an Automat. 739 00:35:16,418 --> 00:35:20,292 - Can I adjust your tie a little to cover your button? 740 00:35:20,379 --> 00:35:21,771 May I? - Sure. 741 00:35:21,858 --> 00:35:24,905 - Okay. You keep scaring me. 742 00:35:24,992 --> 00:35:26,211 - What--what's wrong with a button? 743 00:35:26,298 --> 00:35:27,821 I mean, does it... 744 00:35:27,908 --> 00:35:29,388 - Oh, no, no, no, there's nothing wrong with it. 745 00:35:29,475 --> 00:35:30,519 - Mel Brooks is there looking like a bum, 746 00:35:30,606 --> 00:35:32,347 and--and-- [laughter] 747 00:35:32,434 --> 00:35:33,783 - What is that? C-- 748 00:35:33,870 --> 00:35:35,133 - There was just a little-- - Cake? 749 00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:36,569 - I just wasn't-- I don't know. 750 00:35:36,656 --> 00:35:38,092 - Could be. - Were you eating cake? 751 00:35:38,179 --> 00:35:39,049 - Yeah, I just came from Junior's and--okay. 752 00:35:39,137 --> 00:35:40,225 - It's good. 753 00:35:40,312 --> 00:35:41,878 - So should we-- 754 00:35:41,965 --> 00:35:43,619 - Come on. 755 00:35:43,706 --> 00:35:45,534 I've got a Colombian ambassador waiting for me. 756 00:35:47,754 --> 00:35:48,929 - Is there any way-- 757 00:35:49,016 --> 00:35:50,670 - You gotta get a still of this. 758 00:35:52,106 --> 00:35:54,761 This photo was taken when I was about seven years old 759 00:35:54,848 --> 00:35:56,676 living in the South Bronx, 760 00:35:56,763 --> 00:35:59,200 immigrant family, not making a great deal of money. 761 00:35:59,287 --> 00:36:01,420 So you have to understand, 762 00:36:01,507 --> 00:36:03,291 we almost never went to a restaurant. 763 00:36:03,378 --> 00:36:04,858 I don't ever remember going to a restaurant 764 00:36:04,945 --> 00:36:06,599 anywhere in the South Bronx. 765 00:36:06,686 --> 00:36:08,166 We always ate at home or with a relative. 766 00:36:10,516 --> 00:36:14,084 So going to an Automat was not just the experience 767 00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:16,826 of seeing this mechanized food delivery system. 768 00:36:16,913 --> 00:36:20,221 It was going to a restaurant, and as a kid, 769 00:36:20,308 --> 00:36:23,529 it was such a thrill to walk into this place. 770 00:36:23,616 --> 00:36:26,096 Sparkling. It shone. 771 00:36:26,184 --> 00:36:29,361 I mean, it literally blasted you with the marble 772 00:36:29,448 --> 00:36:32,799 and the tables that were marble. 773 00:36:32,886 --> 00:36:36,846 And there is this wall where little compartments 774 00:36:36,933 --> 00:36:41,199 had the beautiful chrome-rimmed knobs. 775 00:36:41,286 --> 00:36:42,809 And you knew there was somebody 776 00:36:42,896 --> 00:36:44,419 behind those little compartments. 777 00:36:44,506 --> 00:36:46,247 You never saw them, 778 00:36:46,334 --> 00:36:49,511 but you knew they had to be there. 779 00:36:49,598 --> 00:36:52,993 And better than that, the food was good. 780 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,516 The Automat was where I learned 781 00:36:54,603 --> 00:36:57,171 to like creamed spinach. 782 00:36:57,258 --> 00:36:59,652 Macaroni and cheese. 783 00:36:59,739 --> 00:37:02,394 - Automat food became so recognizable, 784 00:37:02,481 --> 00:37:05,048 particularly the signature dishes. 785 00:37:05,135 --> 00:37:06,572 - There's baked beans and baked beans, 786 00:37:06,659 --> 00:37:10,619 and then there's Horn & Hardart's baked beans. 787 00:37:10,706 --> 00:37:13,622 - I really got excited about a Salisbury steak. 788 00:37:13,709 --> 00:37:15,320 - Oh, don't tell my mother this. 789 00:37:15,407 --> 00:37:19,019 I liked the ham and cheese sandwich with mustard. 790 00:37:19,106 --> 00:37:20,325 I think there was an olive stuck in it. 791 00:37:20,412 --> 00:37:22,022 It was great. 792 00:37:22,109 --> 00:37:23,328 I don't know what Carl ate at the Automat. 793 00:37:23,415 --> 00:37:25,243 Did you ask him what he had? 794 00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:27,027 - It always consisted of the same thing. 795 00:37:27,114 --> 00:37:31,640 A ham and cheese sandwich, a cup of very good coffee. 796 00:37:31,727 --> 00:37:36,210 - Carl was much more frugal-- cheap. 797 00:37:36,297 --> 00:37:37,472 Cheaper than I am. 798 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:39,822 - It was cheap. Very cheap. 799 00:37:39,909 --> 00:37:42,738 - Eggs, bacon. 800 00:37:42,825 --> 00:37:44,653 - Chicken salad. 801 00:37:44,740 --> 00:37:49,658 - I loved the creamed spinach and succotash 802 00:37:49,745 --> 00:37:51,791 and the sweet things. 803 00:37:51,878 --> 00:37:55,098 - One part mashed potatoes, one part baked beans, 804 00:37:55,185 --> 00:37:57,013 and one part Salisbury steak, 805 00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:59,015 and you've gone to heaven without dying. 806 00:38:02,062 --> 00:38:04,151 - For my family, it wasn't just the Automat. 807 00:38:04,238 --> 00:38:06,240 It was Horn & Hardart, because there was also 808 00:38:06,327 --> 00:38:08,416 a retail store in my neighborhood, 809 00:38:08,503 --> 00:38:10,853 and on the weekends, on Saturday, 810 00:38:10,940 --> 00:38:13,247 I would usually get a couple of dollars, and I was told, 811 00:38:13,334 --> 00:38:16,381 "Go get a Horn & Hardart apple pie." 812 00:38:16,468 --> 00:38:19,253 And that was the height of the week's experience. 813 00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:20,907 [light music] 814 00:38:20,994 --> 00:38:22,343 - Can you describe the presence 815 00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:24,127 of the retail stores here? 816 00:38:24,214 --> 00:38:25,912 - The concept of the retail stores is very simple. 817 00:38:25,999 --> 00:38:28,480 The idea was we would sell our food 818 00:38:28,567 --> 00:38:32,092 so that it could be taken home, 819 00:38:32,179 --> 00:38:35,617 and it was a very successful move. 820 00:38:35,704 --> 00:38:39,273 The slogan was "Less Work for Mother." 821 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,059 - Less Work for Mother retail shops. 822 00:38:43,146 --> 00:38:45,018 Everything was fresh. 823 00:38:45,105 --> 00:38:49,152 Everything was made to order. It was breathtaking. 824 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,678 But they also sponsored a television show 825 00:38:52,765 --> 00:38:56,943 that was on Sundays called "The Children's Hour." 826 00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:59,075 - Good morning, and welcome to the famous 827 00:38:59,162 --> 00:39:00,816 Sunday morning "Children's Hour." 828 00:39:00,903 --> 00:39:02,992 - Ed Herlihy, he was the announcer. 829 00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:05,168 - Presented by Horn & Hardart Automat cafeterias 830 00:39:05,255 --> 00:39:07,432 and Less Work for Mother Retail Shops. 831 00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:09,129 Today, as every Sunday morning 832 00:39:09,216 --> 00:39:11,523 for over 26 years, "The Children's Hour" 833 00:39:11,610 --> 00:39:13,960 brings you New York's most talented children. 834 00:39:14,047 --> 00:39:18,356 - I had been a child performer and I knew some of the kids, 835 00:39:18,443 --> 00:39:21,881 and they could do things I couldn't even dream of doing. 836 00:39:21,968 --> 00:39:25,319 - ♪ You belong to my heart ♪ 837 00:39:25,406 --> 00:39:28,583 - They auditioned hundreds of children every month. 838 00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:31,717 - ♪ Now and forever ♪ 839 00:39:31,804 --> 00:39:34,372 - You'd be surprised how many people got their start 840 00:39:34,459 --> 00:39:36,243 on "The Children's Hour." 841 00:39:36,330 --> 00:39:40,334 Rosemary Clooney, Eddie Fisher, Leslie Uggams, 842 00:39:40,421 --> 00:39:43,772 Arnold Stang, Frankie Avalon, 843 00:39:43,859 --> 00:39:49,212 Bernadette Peters, Gregory Hines, Madeline Kahn. 844 00:39:49,299 --> 00:39:51,867 - No kidding. She never mentioned that. 845 00:39:51,954 --> 00:39:54,783 You know, she was in a lot of my movies 846 00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:58,178 like "Blazing Saddles," "Young Frankenstein," 847 00:39:58,265 --> 00:40:01,355 and many others. 848 00:40:01,442 --> 00:40:04,358 And, of course, she would come to the Automat. 849 00:40:04,445 --> 00:40:06,142 - This portion of "The Children's Hour" 850 00:40:06,229 --> 00:40:07,840 has been brought to you by Horn & Hardart Automat 851 00:40:07,927 --> 00:40:10,016 cafeterias and Less Work for Mother retail shops. 852 00:40:10,103 --> 00:40:13,541 Complete meals with less work for mother. 853 00:40:19,765 --> 00:40:21,810 - Carl, even though he was, like, 854 00:40:21,897 --> 00:40:25,727 costarring with Sid Caesar on the " Show of Shows," 855 00:40:25,814 --> 00:40:28,556 when he came in for rehearsals, 856 00:40:28,643 --> 00:40:32,125 he'd been at the Automat having his breakfast. 857 00:40:32,212 --> 00:40:34,693 - Every morning at 9:30, I had my breakfast. 858 00:40:34,780 --> 00:40:36,912 I was there for a half hour because I had to get to work 859 00:40:36,999 --> 00:40:39,219 at 10:00. 860 00:40:39,306 --> 00:40:42,483 Mel was one of these guys who couldn't get to work on time. 861 00:40:42,570 --> 00:40:45,094 So he never had breakfast at Automats. 862 00:40:45,181 --> 00:40:47,575 - I don't remember there ever being breakfast at the Automat. 863 00:40:47,662 --> 00:40:51,361 I don't remember there ever being things like waffles. 864 00:40:51,449 --> 00:40:53,059 There may have been scrambled eggs. 865 00:40:55,714 --> 00:41:01,023 There were a lot of Broadway types. 866 00:41:01,110 --> 00:41:02,416 Not stars, mind you. 867 00:41:02,503 --> 00:41:05,463 Secondary players, bit players. 868 00:41:05,550 --> 00:41:08,857 - We were-- I guess we were actors. 869 00:41:08,944 --> 00:41:11,120 - I'm an actor, not a clown. 870 00:41:11,207 --> 00:41:15,168 - Hide the silverware. Here come the actors. 871 00:41:15,255 --> 00:41:19,433 - To eat or not to eat. That is the question. 872 00:41:20,826 --> 00:41:26,353 - My actor friends and I would go to at least three locations 873 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,748 right near the theaters that I would work at. 874 00:41:29,835 --> 00:41:34,448 We would sometimes go and get napkins 875 00:41:34,535 --> 00:41:39,671 and put ketchup on the napkins 876 00:41:39,758 --> 00:41:43,588 and pretend that we were eating the napkins. 877 00:41:43,675 --> 00:41:45,981 You know, the point being in Horn & Hardart's, 878 00:41:46,068 --> 00:41:50,159 everything tasted delicious, even the napkins. 879 00:41:50,246 --> 00:41:52,074 - Ms. Duncan and I will be lunching here. 880 00:41:52,161 --> 00:41:53,815 Will you pick us up in half an hour-- 881 00:41:53,902 --> 00:41:56,339 - Once in a while, there'd be a lighthearted movie, 882 00:41:56,426 --> 00:41:57,819 a love story. 883 00:41:57,906 --> 00:41:59,995 They'd use the Automat. 884 00:42:00,082 --> 00:42:01,910 They had lunch there or something. 885 00:42:01,997 --> 00:42:05,174 - You like chicken pot pie? - 25¢? 886 00:42:05,261 --> 00:42:08,351 - Doris Day, James Garner, that kind of movie. 887 00:42:08,438 --> 00:42:12,225 - Where? - She just went to the Automat. 888 00:42:12,312 --> 00:42:14,923 - See, I thought this was my table. 889 00:42:15,010 --> 00:42:16,359 Mind if I sit down? 890 00:42:18,753 --> 00:42:22,104 - Remarkable. She never makes a mistake. 891 00:42:22,191 --> 00:42:23,453 Fast as lightning too. 892 00:42:23,541 --> 00:42:24,759 - In an average eight-hour day 893 00:42:24,846 --> 00:42:29,198 that girl handles 18,240 nickels. 894 00:42:29,285 --> 00:42:30,983 - Ladies and gentlemen, one of the many pleasures 895 00:42:31,070 --> 00:42:32,462 when a visitor comes to New York 896 00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:34,856 is going to the many fine eating places. 897 00:42:34,943 --> 00:42:37,816 [upbeat music] 898 00:42:37,903 --> 00:42:40,296 ♪ ♪ 899 00:42:40,383 --> 00:42:43,082 - Hey, you're Bob Hope, ain't ya? 900 00:42:44,823 --> 00:42:51,351 ♪ ♪ 901 00:42:51,438 --> 00:42:54,528 - In an Automat, 902 00:42:54,615 --> 00:42:56,095 by the early '60s, 903 00:42:56,182 --> 00:43:00,012 the Automat had become incredibly popular. 904 00:43:00,099 --> 00:43:02,928 - Jack Benny liked the Automat. 905 00:43:03,015 --> 00:43:06,540 He decided to launch a TV series there. 906 00:43:06,627 --> 00:43:09,456 He had a reputation for being cheap, 907 00:43:09,543 --> 00:43:12,372 and he invited all the celebrities--Helen Hayes 908 00:43:12,459 --> 00:43:16,376 and people like that in their long gowns in their tuxedos. 909 00:43:16,463 --> 00:43:18,204 And when they got to the Automat, 910 00:43:18,291 --> 00:43:22,643 Jack Benny gave them a roll of nickels. 911 00:43:22,730 --> 00:43:25,603 [indistinct chatter] 912 00:43:29,345 --> 00:43:31,696 [horn honking] 913 00:43:31,783 --> 00:43:33,436 - So you said you even went to Horn & Hardart 914 00:43:33,523 --> 00:43:35,177 in Philadelphia? - I did. 915 00:43:35,264 --> 00:43:37,397 When I was in Philadelphia, I went to the Automat. 916 00:43:37,484 --> 00:43:41,140 Philadelphia had the same thing, the Automat. 917 00:43:41,227 --> 00:43:43,229 - And people who came to it in New York City, 918 00:43:43,316 --> 00:43:47,450 a lot of them don't even know anything about Philadelphia. 919 00:43:47,537 --> 00:43:50,889 In Philadelphia, they were more known as Horn & Hardart. 920 00:43:50,976 --> 00:43:53,413 You're going to Horn & Hardart. 921 00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,198 - Over the years, even though to the country, as a whole, 922 00:43:56,285 --> 00:43:57,460 when they thought of the Automat, 923 00:43:57,547 --> 00:43:58,418 they thought of New York. 924 00:43:58,505 --> 00:44:00,115 In Philadelphia, 925 00:44:00,202 --> 00:44:02,770 Horn & Hardart couldn't be more popular. 926 00:44:02,857 --> 00:44:05,164 In 1941, between its restaurants 927 00:44:05,251 --> 00:44:06,861 and its retail stores, 928 00:44:06,948 --> 00:44:08,820 Horn & Hardart was feeding 10% of the population 929 00:44:08,907 --> 00:44:10,996 of the entire city of Philadelphia. 930 00:44:11,083 --> 00:44:13,912 One of the largest cities in America at that time. 931 00:44:13,999 --> 00:44:17,089 ♪ ♪ 932 00:44:17,176 --> 00:44:21,615 - I moved to Philadelphia in 1954 933 00:44:21,702 --> 00:44:24,966 as a young 16-year-old. 934 00:44:26,054 --> 00:44:28,274 And because there was not a lot of money 935 00:44:28,361 --> 00:44:30,232 in the household, 936 00:44:30,319 --> 00:44:33,888 we used to go to Horn & Hardart's. 937 00:44:33,975 --> 00:44:35,629 For years, I thought 938 00:44:35,716 --> 00:44:40,329 Horn & Hardart's was only in Philadelphia. 939 00:44:40,416 --> 00:44:43,202 Yes, they had good food, 940 00:44:43,289 --> 00:44:47,685 but it was an important place for me and other people. 941 00:44:47,772 --> 00:44:51,514 I can say there were parts of Philadelphia that were 942 00:44:51,601 --> 00:44:56,694 segregated like skating rinks and bowling alleys. 943 00:44:56,781 --> 00:45:00,132 But Horn & Hardart's was a nice place 944 00:45:00,219 --> 00:45:04,136 where African Americans could go and feel dignified. 945 00:45:08,183 --> 00:45:09,881 - Even though Horn and Hardart in the '50s 946 00:45:09,968 --> 00:45:13,058 and early '60s was as big as it had ever been, 947 00:45:13,145 --> 00:45:15,060 they were no longer making money the way they used to. 948 00:45:15,147 --> 00:45:16,583 - In the late '50s, 949 00:45:16,670 --> 00:45:18,716 we were beginning to see competition 950 00:45:18,803 --> 00:45:21,980 from a company called Chock Full o'Nuts. 951 00:45:22,067 --> 00:45:24,286 People could come into Chock Full o'Nuts, 952 00:45:24,373 --> 00:45:26,506 get some coffee, which is what they were chiefly named for. 953 00:45:26,593 --> 00:45:29,335 Get out, spend very little money. 954 00:45:29,422 --> 00:45:33,034 It represented the first serious competition 955 00:45:33,121 --> 00:45:34,949 we'd had in a long while. 956 00:45:35,036 --> 00:45:37,169 I'd call that the first cloud in the sky. 957 00:45:37,256 --> 00:45:40,085 [men grumbling] 958 00:45:43,828 --> 00:45:46,569 - Every time someone buys Horn & Hardart coffee, 959 00:45:46,656 --> 00:45:48,397 it hurts us a little. 960 00:45:48,484 --> 00:45:50,182 Horn & Hardart uses 961 00:45:50,269 --> 00:45:51,879 such ridiculously expensive coffee beans. 962 00:45:51,966 --> 00:45:53,968 We lose money on it. 963 00:45:54,055 --> 00:45:57,406 We could make money by buying less expensive coffee beans, 964 00:45:57,493 --> 00:46:00,758 but then our coffee would be less good. 965 00:46:00,845 --> 00:46:03,282 Horn & Hardart coffee: 966 00:46:03,369 --> 00:46:06,241 it's so good, we lose money on it. 967 00:46:08,374 --> 00:46:10,071 - Horn & Hardart was losing money 968 00:46:10,158 --> 00:46:12,465 on every cup of coffee that they sold. 969 00:46:12,552 --> 00:46:15,947 Post-war inflation made everything more expensive, 970 00:46:16,034 --> 00:46:19,733 and the nickel was no longer worth what it once was. 971 00:46:19,820 --> 00:46:22,823 They waited as long as they could afford to until finally, 972 00:46:22,910 --> 00:46:26,479 Horn & Hardart raised the price of coffee, 973 00:46:26,566 --> 00:46:29,177 but the vending machine couldn't take pennies. 974 00:46:29,264 --> 00:46:32,964 So Horn & Hardart had to go to 10¢. 975 00:46:33,051 --> 00:46:35,618 They doubled the price. 976 00:46:35,705 --> 00:46:39,057 The results were disastrous. 977 00:46:39,144 --> 00:46:40,972 Number of cups of coffee sold immediately 978 00:46:41,059 --> 00:46:44,453 dropped from 70 million a year to 45 million. 979 00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:47,761 [solemn music] 980 00:46:47,848 --> 00:46:51,330 - For some reason, there was this emotional attachment. 981 00:46:51,417 --> 00:46:56,117 - Yeah, they were known for that 5¢ cup of coffee. 982 00:46:56,204 --> 00:46:58,990 - The nickel subway ride was gone. 983 00:46:59,077 --> 00:47:01,688 The nickel phone call was gone, 984 00:47:01,775 --> 00:47:04,256 but when the nickel cup of coffee changed, 985 00:47:04,343 --> 00:47:08,477 it created a very emotional divide between the Automat 986 00:47:08,564 --> 00:47:09,870 that they knew what was coming to them. 987 00:47:09,957 --> 00:47:11,698 - The beginning of the end. 988 00:47:11,785 --> 00:47:13,961 - I mean, it was called the house that nickels built. 989 00:47:14,048 --> 00:47:20,315 ♪ ♪ 990 00:47:21,534 --> 00:47:25,059 - My father fought that battle to keep it at 5¢, 991 00:47:25,146 --> 00:47:27,714 and when the decision was finally made, 992 00:47:27,801 --> 00:47:29,498 he physically collapsed 993 00:47:29,585 --> 00:47:31,283 and required medical assistance 994 00:47:31,370 --> 00:47:34,155 for several days while he was flat on his back. 995 00:47:34,242 --> 00:47:37,158 The decision drained him so much, 996 00:47:37,245 --> 00:47:39,813 but it had to be faced. 997 00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:42,772 [sweeping music] 998 00:47:42,860 --> 00:47:45,819 ♪ ♪ 999 00:47:45,906 --> 00:47:48,169 - A quiet revolution has been taking place 1000 00:47:48,256 --> 00:47:49,867 for nearly a decade. 1001 00:47:49,954 --> 00:47:51,912 More than a million persons each year 1002 00:47:51,999 --> 00:47:54,132 have pulled up stakes in the cities... 1003 00:47:54,219 --> 00:47:56,743 - In 1957, President Eisenhower 1004 00:47:56,830 --> 00:47:59,659 put the interstate highway system in. 1005 00:47:59,746 --> 00:48:02,792 The result was to encourage businesses 1006 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,666 to locate outside of the center cities. 1007 00:48:06,753 --> 00:48:10,713 The center city was no longer going to be what it had been. 1008 00:48:11,801 --> 00:48:13,586 That was a major cloud in the sky, and of course, 1009 00:48:13,673 --> 00:48:17,416 it became a torrent in the sky. 1010 00:48:17,503 --> 00:48:20,506 - We shall build hundreds of thousands of homes 1011 00:48:20,593 --> 00:48:23,117 during the post-war return to peacetime activities. 1012 00:48:23,204 --> 00:48:26,512 - Everyone was racing toward the suburbs. 1013 00:48:26,599 --> 00:48:29,384 Women, for the most part, were raising families now, 1014 00:48:29,471 --> 00:48:31,996 so they weren't working in the city. 1015 00:48:32,083 --> 00:48:34,389 And men who were working in the city 1016 00:48:34,476 --> 00:48:36,478 were not hanging around for dinner here. 1017 00:48:36,565 --> 00:48:39,829 They were going home to their home-cooked meals. 1018 00:48:39,917 --> 00:48:44,312 - The romance, the adventure of choosing from foods 1019 00:48:44,399 --> 00:48:47,141 gathered from the four corners of America. 1020 00:48:47,228 --> 00:48:49,448 - Also, tastes in food were changing. 1021 00:48:49,535 --> 00:48:51,580 - Frozen foods are the nearest thing 1022 00:48:51,667 --> 00:48:53,495 to fresh foods available. 1023 00:48:53,582 --> 00:48:56,368 They're convenient, easily prepared, and palatable. 1024 00:48:56,455 --> 00:48:58,500 ♪ ♪ 1025 00:48:58,587 --> 00:49:00,154 - The people eating out were younger. 1026 00:49:00,241 --> 00:49:02,026 They didn't care about saving money. 1027 00:49:02,113 --> 00:49:05,812 They were willing to spend more for a service experience. 1028 00:49:05,899 --> 00:49:07,640 Thrift started to become something 1029 00:49:07,727 --> 00:49:09,903 that the consumers were actually turned away by. 1030 00:49:12,123 --> 00:49:15,648 - We knew that the demographic patterns were changing. 1031 00:49:15,735 --> 00:49:17,345 These were worries. 1032 00:49:17,432 --> 00:49:20,261 [indistinct chatter] 1033 00:49:28,269 --> 00:49:30,880 - March 28th, 1960, 1034 00:49:30,968 --> 00:49:35,581 my father unexpectedly died. 1035 00:49:37,452 --> 00:49:40,760 My father was a man who cared about people 1036 00:49:40,847 --> 00:49:42,762 very, very strongly. 1037 00:49:42,849 --> 00:49:44,851 [soft music] 1038 00:49:44,938 --> 00:49:48,159 From the time of Mr. Horn and Mr. Hardart and my father, 1039 00:49:48,246 --> 00:49:50,900 that's what Horn & Hardart was about. 1040 00:49:50,988 --> 00:49:53,555 ♪ ♪ 1041 00:49:53,642 --> 00:49:56,863 Employees and customers cared immensely about the company 1042 00:49:56,950 --> 00:50:01,737 because they knew the company cared immensely about them. 1043 00:50:01,824 --> 00:50:04,740 I think you've sensed that in the interviews you've had. 1044 00:50:06,568 --> 00:50:08,005 Be clear that wasn't just a question 1045 00:50:08,092 --> 00:50:10,050 of sitting down at a business school 1046 00:50:10,137 --> 00:50:12,705 and saying, "Well, this is a good business practice." 1047 00:50:12,792 --> 00:50:15,186 It was done because it was right. 1048 00:50:15,273 --> 00:50:21,844 ♪ ♪ 1049 00:50:21,931 --> 00:50:25,413 - Edwin Daly took the company from 1941, when Horn died, 1050 00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:29,504 into 1960, when he himself died. 1051 00:50:29,591 --> 00:50:32,942 But Daly made a mistake that Horn had not made. 1052 00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:35,336 He didn't prepare the company for a successor at all. 1053 00:50:35,423 --> 00:50:37,382 In the breaking of the chain of people 1054 00:50:37,469 --> 00:50:38,905 with a real commitment 1055 00:50:38,992 --> 00:50:41,516 to the Horn & Hardart's original vision 1056 00:50:41,603 --> 00:50:44,476 was a big part of what caused the problems that followed. 1057 00:50:44,563 --> 00:50:51,135 ♪ ♪ 1058 00:50:53,224 --> 00:50:55,530 - I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, 1059 00:50:55,617 --> 00:50:57,402 and as a young boy, 1060 00:50:57,489 --> 00:51:01,058 I had always heard about New York City and Manhattan. 1061 00:51:01,145 --> 00:51:03,277 I must've been about 10 years old 1062 00:51:03,364 --> 00:51:05,627 when my Aunt Shirley took me into Manhattan 1063 00:51:05,714 --> 00:51:07,325 for the first time in my life. 1064 00:51:09,501 --> 00:51:12,678 She took me to Radio City Music Hall. 1065 00:51:12,765 --> 00:51:15,028 It was amazing. 1066 00:51:15,115 --> 00:51:16,595 We got out of Radio City, and she said, 1067 00:51:16,682 --> 00:51:18,336 "I'm gonna take you to a very special place." 1068 00:51:21,426 --> 00:51:24,385 Walked in. 1069 00:51:24,472 --> 00:51:28,215 I remember putting money in the window, 1070 00:51:28,302 --> 00:51:31,044 and the next thing I knew, the window opened, 1071 00:51:31,131 --> 00:51:35,440 and I received an apple pie. 1072 00:51:35,527 --> 00:51:41,141 And at that age of ten or so, I was mystified. 1073 00:51:41,228 --> 00:51:43,056 How did this happen? 1074 00:51:43,143 --> 00:51:46,799 And I remember asking my aunt, and she said, 1075 00:51:46,886 --> 00:51:51,238 "There's a magician on the other side," 1076 00:51:51,325 --> 00:51:56,069 and I believed that, and I have never stopped 1077 00:51:56,156 --> 00:51:59,464 threading everything we've done at Starbucks 1078 00:51:59,551 --> 00:52:02,336 with that initial experience. 1079 00:52:02,423 --> 00:52:05,774 When we had 11 stores and a hundred people in 1987 1080 00:52:05,861 --> 00:52:08,560 and dreaming about what we would do, 1081 00:52:08,647 --> 00:52:12,564 I always had the Automat in my mind's eye. 1082 00:52:12,651 --> 00:52:16,481 How do you create that level of theater, excitement, 1083 00:52:16,568 --> 00:52:19,527 surprise, and delight? 1084 00:52:19,614 --> 00:52:23,618 The Automat was something unique and special. 1085 00:52:23,705 --> 00:52:26,621 And really, when I think about my own career, 1086 00:52:26,708 --> 00:52:29,015 despite what we've been able to dream about 1087 00:52:29,102 --> 00:52:33,106 and accomplish at Starbucks, at the heart of it, 1088 00:52:33,193 --> 00:52:35,587 I'm a storyteller trying to create 1089 00:52:35,674 --> 00:52:39,373 a sense of discovery and romance. 1090 00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:42,637 The Automat for me was a seminal moment 1091 00:52:42,724 --> 00:52:44,509 in my childhood, 1092 00:52:44,596 --> 00:52:46,554 and I became a merchant 1093 00:52:46,641 --> 00:52:49,253 the day that I was in that Automat. 1094 00:52:49,340 --> 00:52:53,692 ♪ ♪ 1095 00:52:55,041 --> 00:52:56,825 [quirky music] 1096 00:52:56,912 --> 00:52:59,393 - ♪ When you least expect it, you're elected ♪ 1097 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,004 - These are people who are gonna buy a roll. 1098 00:53:02,091 --> 00:53:06,008 [laughter] 1099 00:53:08,750 --> 00:53:12,450 Now, you can imagine it's pretty frustrating. 1100 00:53:12,537 --> 00:53:15,627 [laughter] 1101 00:53:18,151 --> 00:53:19,805 This fellow with a roll-- [inaudible] 1102 00:53:19,892 --> 00:53:22,808 [laughter] 1103 00:53:25,289 --> 00:53:27,029 He's gonna try again, you know. 1104 00:53:27,116 --> 00:53:28,988 He's very, very patient. 1105 00:53:31,947 --> 00:53:34,428 Now he tries to return the two plates. 1106 00:53:44,090 --> 00:53:49,138 - In the '60s, there was a group that we organized. 1107 00:53:49,226 --> 00:53:51,880 We met on the second floor of Horn & Hardart's 1108 00:53:51,967 --> 00:53:53,578 at 15th and Market, 1109 00:53:53,665 --> 00:53:56,972 where there were ideas about what could happen 1110 00:53:57,059 --> 00:53:59,279 if we work hard enough. 1111 00:53:59,366 --> 00:54:01,890 And we strategized about 1112 00:54:01,977 --> 00:54:06,199 how we would be able to get into politics. 1113 00:54:06,286 --> 00:54:07,983 It was the birth 1114 00:54:08,070 --> 00:54:11,160 of the Black political movement in Philadelphia 1115 00:54:11,248 --> 00:54:16,253 which led to my being able to run for mayor of Philadelphia. 1116 00:54:16,340 --> 00:54:19,125 In the 1950s and '60s, 1117 00:54:19,212 --> 00:54:22,476 I ate so much Horn & Hardart's meatloaf. 1118 00:54:22,563 --> 00:54:26,567 By 1970, I really went off meat. 1119 00:54:26,654 --> 00:54:27,742 [laughs] 1120 00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:31,746 [solemn music] 1121 00:54:31,833 --> 00:54:33,922 - I was in Vietnam in the '60s. 1122 00:54:34,009 --> 00:54:36,447 When I went in the army, it was still in the process 1123 00:54:36,534 --> 00:54:38,187 of ending segregation. 1124 00:54:38,275 --> 00:54:40,364 But I came in from Kelly Street 1125 00:54:40,451 --> 00:54:41,930 and Horn & Hardart and the Automat. 1126 00:54:42,017 --> 00:54:43,845 So I knew what diversity was all about. 1127 00:54:43,932 --> 00:54:45,586 So integration wasn't anything new to me. 1128 00:54:45,673 --> 00:54:48,589 I lived in integration. 1129 00:54:48,676 --> 00:54:50,765 I was gonna help transform the army 1130 00:54:50,852 --> 00:54:52,941 and make it understand diversity. 1131 00:54:53,028 --> 00:54:59,905 ♪ ♪ 1132 00:54:59,992 --> 00:55:04,170 - In the '60s, my family had moved out of the city 1133 00:55:04,257 --> 00:55:06,912 to the suburbs to escape crime. 1134 00:55:06,999 --> 00:55:09,610 I had been the victim of crime. 1135 00:55:09,697 --> 00:55:14,398 Horn & Hardarts were beginning to decline. 1136 00:55:14,485 --> 00:55:16,617 - As people kept moving to the suburbs, 1137 00:55:16,704 --> 00:55:18,663 the breakfast and dinners and the weekend business 1138 00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:21,492 that Horn & Hardart had always enjoyed disappeared. 1139 00:55:21,579 --> 00:55:23,320 They were no longer serving meals 1140 00:55:23,407 --> 00:55:25,844 seven days a week; they were serving them five, 1141 00:55:25,931 --> 00:55:28,368 having a huge impact on the amount of sales 1142 00:55:28,455 --> 00:55:31,153 each restaurant was able to do. 1143 00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:35,027 - We needed to reduce commitment in center cities. 1144 00:55:35,114 --> 00:55:38,596 I'm now addressing Philadelphia. 1145 00:55:38,683 --> 00:55:40,598 Let's face facts. 1146 00:55:42,730 --> 00:55:46,255 - In 1966, Horn & Hardart of Philadelphia 1147 00:55:46,343 --> 00:55:48,170 closed their central city commissary 1148 00:55:48,257 --> 00:55:50,477 and opened a new one in the suburbs 1149 00:55:50,564 --> 00:55:52,653 that had access to superhighway routes 1150 00:55:52,740 --> 00:55:56,831 and would give them a broader reach. 1151 00:55:56,918 --> 00:55:59,399 But for some reason, instead of shrinking, 1152 00:55:59,486 --> 00:56:02,707 they built themselves for enormous volumes of food, 1153 00:56:02,794 --> 00:56:04,491 and that cost sunk them 1154 00:56:04,578 --> 00:56:08,147 into debt from which they never recovered. 1155 00:56:08,234 --> 00:56:10,410 - It was a blunder. It was overbuilt. 1156 00:56:10,497 --> 00:56:12,369 It was badly located. 1157 00:56:13,718 --> 00:56:15,328 It was just wrong. 1158 00:56:16,982 --> 00:56:19,463 - Horn & Hardart system, the commissary model, 1159 00:56:19,550 --> 00:56:21,421 had been a brilliant system. 1160 00:56:21,508 --> 00:56:23,162 It worked fantastically well, 1161 00:56:23,249 --> 00:56:26,774 as long as everybody went and ate there, 1162 00:56:26,861 --> 00:56:30,952 but when they started to suffer a drop in volume, 1163 00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:32,301 things couldn't be scaled back. 1164 00:56:32,389 --> 00:56:37,655 ♪ ♪ 1165 00:56:37,742 --> 00:56:39,831 - My father became president 1166 00:56:39,918 --> 00:56:43,008 of Horn & Hardart at a very difficult time. 1167 00:56:43,095 --> 00:56:45,053 I remember my mom saying it was sort of like 1168 00:56:45,140 --> 00:56:48,143 taking over the helm of the Titanic. 1169 00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:50,407 I don't think those last several years 1170 00:56:50,494 --> 00:56:53,410 were pleasant for him in any way. 1171 00:56:53,497 --> 00:56:55,847 There was a major recession in the country, 1172 00:56:55,934 --> 00:56:57,892 but especially in New York City, 1173 00:56:57,979 --> 00:57:00,982 and Horn & Hardart was a ship that was taking on water. 1174 00:57:01,069 --> 00:57:06,248 ♪ ♪ 1175 00:57:06,335 --> 00:57:08,250 - The neighborhood declined very badly 1176 00:57:08,337 --> 00:57:09,730 around Union Square. 1177 00:57:09,817 --> 00:57:12,211 It was full of homeless and bums, 1178 00:57:12,298 --> 00:57:16,911 but we'd go down to meet my grandfather at the Automat. 1179 00:57:16,998 --> 00:57:21,089 Grandpa liked the Automat. He was a poor man. 1180 00:57:21,176 --> 00:57:23,091 He was a garment worker. 1181 00:57:23,178 --> 00:57:25,398 He would sit there and talk about 1182 00:57:25,485 --> 00:57:28,009 how much he hated the Vietnam War 1183 00:57:28,096 --> 00:57:30,838 in Yiddish to his friends who would meet him there. 1184 00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:35,626 [soft music] 1185 00:57:35,713 --> 00:57:38,585 ♪ ♪ 1186 00:57:38,672 --> 00:57:41,327 - One of their hallmarks was that you could go 1187 00:57:41,414 --> 00:57:44,199 and spend a lot of time there, have a cup of coffee, 1188 00:57:44,286 --> 00:57:47,681 meet interesting people, 1189 00:57:47,768 --> 00:57:50,467 but the problem was people were coming and squatting. 1190 00:57:50,554 --> 00:57:53,165 So you started to get homeless people and vagrants 1191 00:57:53,252 --> 00:57:55,080 in the Horn & Hardarts, 1192 00:57:55,167 --> 00:57:59,084 and so they went from being these beautiful, clean, 1193 00:57:59,171 --> 00:58:03,610 art deco cathedrals to dirty and smelly 1194 00:58:03,697 --> 00:58:06,483 and not a pleasant place to be. 1195 00:58:06,570 --> 00:58:13,490 ♪ ♪ 1196 00:58:15,796 --> 00:58:21,236 - I was the busboy at Horn & Hardart 15 Park Row. 1197 00:58:21,323 --> 00:58:23,325 My first time really seeing homeless people 1198 00:58:23,412 --> 00:58:27,199 was when I was working down in that Wall Street area. 1199 00:58:27,286 --> 00:58:28,940 The Horn & Hardart was the place where you could go 1200 00:58:29,027 --> 00:58:30,898 and nobody would bother you. 1201 00:58:30,985 --> 00:58:34,075 Where you could stay warm and get out of the cold. 1202 00:58:34,162 --> 00:58:37,514 So they would just sit there all day. 1203 00:58:37,601 --> 00:58:40,386 And I would at first try to get 'em out, 1204 00:58:40,473 --> 00:58:43,824 but there was a policy to just leave people alone. 1205 00:58:43,911 --> 00:58:46,392 In fact, sometimes I would sneak some leftover food 1206 00:58:46,479 --> 00:58:48,655 over there--I would do that. 1207 00:58:48,742 --> 00:58:51,266 This is me. I had the fro back then. 1208 00:58:51,353 --> 00:58:54,313 And this was my grandmother, Sarah Perez. 1209 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,707 We worked at the same Horn & Hardart. 1210 00:58:56,794 --> 00:58:58,926 She was a nickel thrower. 1211 00:58:59,013 --> 00:59:02,060 You know, Horn & Hardart really cared for people, 1212 00:59:02,147 --> 00:59:04,758 and that was something that just stuck with me. 1213 00:59:04,845 --> 00:59:07,935 In fact, I recently retired after 26 years 1214 00:59:08,022 --> 00:59:09,763 of social services in New York, 1215 00:59:09,850 --> 00:59:12,505 besides all the other things I've done in my life. 1216 00:59:12,592 --> 00:59:15,029 But that's what I'm most proud of. 1217 00:59:15,116 --> 00:59:16,596 So I loved Horn & Hardart, 1218 00:59:16,683 --> 00:59:18,467 and I loved it since I was a child 1219 00:59:18,555 --> 00:59:20,121 because they had Christmas parties 1220 00:59:20,208 --> 00:59:22,080 for the employees' children. 1221 00:59:22,167 --> 00:59:23,995 ♪ ♪ 1222 00:59:24,082 --> 00:59:25,910 My grandmother took my brother and me. 1223 00:59:25,997 --> 00:59:27,738 We couldn't wait to go 1224 00:59:27,825 --> 00:59:29,261 because they would have all kinds of entertainment 1225 00:59:29,348 --> 00:59:31,524 and things for the kids. 1226 00:59:31,611 --> 00:59:33,134 Got to see Santa, sit on his lap, 1227 00:59:33,221 --> 00:59:35,963 and get these great toys. 1228 00:59:36,050 --> 00:59:39,097 We loved Horn & Hardart, 1229 00:59:39,184 --> 00:59:42,143 even in the '60s when it was kind of rough. 1230 00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:44,711 In fact, my grandmother, she got an award called 1231 00:59:44,798 --> 00:59:46,365 "I'm not fancy, but I'm good" award, 1232 00:59:46,452 --> 00:59:50,021 which was an advertising slogan back then. 1233 00:59:50,108 --> 00:59:52,980 - How did the campaign get its name? 1234 00:59:53,067 --> 00:59:56,375 - It was the age of the fancy coffee shop. 1235 00:59:56,462 --> 00:59:59,987 And so they were fancy and not very good, 1236 01:00:00,074 --> 01:00:03,295 and Horn & Hardart, the food was wonderful, 1237 01:00:03,382 --> 01:00:05,210 but the experience that people had in there 1238 01:00:05,297 --> 01:00:07,995 was not always the best. 1239 01:00:08,082 --> 01:00:09,910 There's a story about a Southern girl 1240 01:00:09,997 --> 01:00:11,999 who came to New York. 1241 01:00:12,086 --> 01:00:13,827 She said, "I went into a Horn & Hardart, 1242 01:00:13,914 --> 01:00:17,918 "and I tried the baked beans, and mmm, they were fine, 1243 01:00:18,005 --> 01:00:20,442 "and the--the candied sweet potatoes, 1244 01:00:20,529 --> 01:00:22,923 "they were just like down home. 1245 01:00:23,010 --> 01:00:26,448 "And then I had some of that lemon meringue pie, 1246 01:00:26,535 --> 01:00:30,191 "and--and then the man sitting across the way from me, 1247 01:00:30,278 --> 01:00:32,629 he--he flopped it out right in my pie." 1248 01:00:32,716 --> 01:00:34,456 - [snorts] 1249 01:00:34,543 --> 01:00:38,156 - Hey, Barn, disturbance in the Automat over on Tenth. 1250 01:00:38,243 --> 01:00:40,375 - What kind of disturbance? - Some guy's raising hell. 1251 01:00:40,462 --> 01:00:41,855 - The Automat on Tenth? 1252 01:00:41,942 --> 01:00:43,465 - Yeah, he took his clothes off. 1253 01:00:43,552 --> 01:00:44,597 He's running around naked. 1254 01:00:44,684 --> 01:00:46,207 - Charming. 1255 01:00:46,294 --> 01:00:47,992 - Well, that was the story of Horn & Hardart. 1256 01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:50,255 You know, you'd go in there, the food would be great, 1257 01:00:50,342 --> 01:00:55,521 and then you'd have someone do something like that. 1258 01:00:56,478 --> 01:00:58,393 So I came up with this campaign 1259 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,266 for a product that had its flaws. 1260 01:01:01,353 --> 01:01:02,876 - These days, it's not enough to have a restaurant 1261 01:01:02,963 --> 01:01:04,878 with good food and low prices. 1262 01:01:04,965 --> 01:01:07,228 You have to have atmosphere too. 1263 01:01:07,315 --> 01:01:08,969 Trouble is, this junk costs money, 1264 01:01:09,056 --> 01:01:10,797 and to pay for it, you have to raise the prices 1265 01:01:10,884 --> 01:01:12,451 or cut the quality of the food. 1266 01:01:12,538 --> 01:01:16,107 But if you don't have quality chandeliers 1267 01:01:16,194 --> 01:01:18,457 or canned music, 1268 01:01:18,544 --> 01:01:23,288 wallpaper, 1269 01:01:23,375 --> 01:01:25,986 you can put the money you save into better quality food. 1270 01:01:26,073 --> 01:01:29,250 We think that's more important. 1271 01:01:29,337 --> 01:01:30,904 You can't eat atmosphere. 1272 01:01:33,298 --> 01:01:34,647 - I was born in the Bronx. 1273 01:01:34,734 --> 01:01:36,649 I grew up in Horn & Hardart's, 1274 01:01:36,736 --> 01:01:38,433 and it was always a great treat for me 1275 01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,263 to go into those places. 1276 01:01:42,350 --> 01:01:44,091 So this campaign, 1277 01:01:44,178 --> 01:01:47,442 it had an extra level of meaning for me. 1278 01:01:47,529 --> 01:01:52,447 You know, we tried to resurrect it. 1279 01:01:52,534 --> 01:01:54,362 We did what we could. 1280 01:01:54,449 --> 01:01:56,974 [solemn music] 1281 01:01:57,061 --> 01:02:01,152 This campaign was the closest thing to self-expression 1282 01:02:01,239 --> 01:02:03,328 that I could ever have in advertising, 1283 01:02:03,415 --> 01:02:05,983 I think, because it meant so much to me. 1284 01:02:06,070 --> 01:02:08,159 ♪ ♪ 1285 01:02:08,246 --> 01:02:11,640 It was absolutely the closest to my heart because... 1286 01:02:11,728 --> 01:02:18,647 ♪ ♪ 1287 01:02:18,735 --> 01:02:21,694 'Cause it's New York. 1288 01:02:21,781 --> 01:02:28,701 ♪ ♪ 1289 01:02:37,492 --> 01:02:40,539 - It was a sad day when I would go 1290 01:02:40,626 --> 01:02:42,541 and look for Horn & Hardart's 1291 01:02:42,628 --> 01:02:46,240 and saw a sign-- "We're closing." 1292 01:02:46,327 --> 01:02:49,809 - The closing of the Automat located at 818 Chestnut Street 1293 01:02:49,896 --> 01:02:52,899 marks the passing of the old and the advent of the new. 1294 01:02:57,991 --> 01:03:01,734 - $271,000. Hold on! 1295 01:03:01,821 --> 01:03:03,954 - America's first Automat 1296 01:03:04,041 --> 01:03:06,130 today was put on the auctioneer's block. 1297 01:03:06,217 --> 01:03:09,916 The building and most of the equipment, that is. 1298 01:03:10,003 --> 01:03:12,701 - $271,000. Hold on! 1299 01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:17,663 Once, twice, third and last time. 1300 01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:19,534 Hold on! 1301 01:03:19,621 --> 01:03:21,710 Right there. - There it goes! 1302 01:03:21,798 --> 01:03:23,756 [soft music] 1303 01:03:23,843 --> 01:03:26,977 - For my father, it was the family company, 1304 01:03:27,064 --> 01:03:29,022 and it had his family name on it, 1305 01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:31,633 and it had been around for a very long time. 1306 01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,026 So to be in a position to do that 1307 01:03:33,113 --> 01:03:35,072 must've been really difficult for him. 1308 01:03:35,159 --> 01:03:37,335 ♪ ♪ 1309 01:03:37,422 --> 01:03:39,685 - Horn and I used to have lunch once in a while, 1310 01:03:39,772 --> 01:03:42,775 and I can still remember him calling me and saying, 1311 01:03:42,862 --> 01:03:46,561 "John I'm gonna be packing up." 1312 01:03:49,303 --> 01:03:50,696 - The real estate became the most valuable thing 1313 01:03:50,783 --> 01:03:52,480 that Horn & Hardart had. 1314 01:03:52,567 --> 01:03:54,352 Great real estate throughout New York City, 1315 01:03:54,439 --> 01:03:56,615 and they leveraged that real estate by franchising. 1316 01:03:58,312 --> 01:04:01,881 I think he felt like the company and its core 1317 01:04:01,968 --> 01:04:04,623 and its soul was being gutted, and its spirit. 1318 01:04:04,710 --> 01:04:08,583 ♪ ♪ 1319 01:04:08,670 --> 01:04:10,629 - It had been not just a business, 1320 01:04:10,716 --> 01:04:12,326 it was a point of view. 1321 01:04:12,413 --> 01:04:14,502 It was almost a philosophy, 1322 01:04:14,589 --> 01:04:17,375 which these gentlemen, Mr. Horn and Mr. Hardart, 1323 01:04:17,462 --> 01:04:21,335 had embraced and projected through these places. 1324 01:04:21,422 --> 01:04:23,294 Not just making money for themselves, 1325 01:04:23,381 --> 01:04:24,991 but really providing the public 1326 01:04:25,078 --> 01:04:27,124 with what they needed at the same time. 1327 01:04:27,211 --> 01:04:30,040 And I think the Automat proved that there doesn't have to be 1328 01:04:30,127 --> 01:04:34,261 a contradiction between those two notions, 1329 01:04:34,348 --> 01:04:38,178 and these people expected this to last forever. 1330 01:04:38,265 --> 01:04:42,269 ♪ ♪ 1331 01:04:42,356 --> 01:04:45,403 - I came in at the tail end of the Automat. 1332 01:04:45,490 --> 01:04:50,277 I had gone to the Automats many times during my lifetime, 1333 01:04:50,364 --> 01:04:56,283 and here I was in the position of being the undertaker 1334 01:04:56,370 --> 01:05:00,070 converting the Automat into Burger Kings 1335 01:05:00,157 --> 01:05:02,637 and other restaurants. 1336 01:05:02,724 --> 01:05:05,249 - Horn & Hardart, Burger King, Arby's. 1337 01:05:05,336 --> 01:05:06,728 - Yup. - Bojangles. 1338 01:05:06,815 --> 01:05:08,165 - Bojangles, I remember. 1339 01:05:08,252 --> 01:05:12,647 - Mark Twain and Goodbody's. - Hmm. 1340 01:05:12,734 --> 01:05:17,435 - There I am, and this is my little crew, right here. 1341 01:05:20,177 --> 01:05:22,179 - John was in charge of maintenance. 1342 01:05:22,266 --> 01:05:23,571 He was in charge of construction. 1343 01:05:23,658 --> 01:05:25,834 He was in charge of everything. 1344 01:05:27,227 --> 01:05:29,926 And John was sort of reluctant about moving forward 1345 01:05:30,013 --> 01:05:32,406 because he had a sentimental attachment. 1346 01:05:33,712 --> 01:05:35,757 What he had before was beauty. 1347 01:05:35,844 --> 01:05:38,630 What he had before was elegance, 1348 01:05:38,717 --> 01:05:41,502 versus what I was creating. 1349 01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:47,421 I was creating nuts and bolts, and he was wine and flowers. 1350 01:05:49,336 --> 01:05:52,296 But the people that were now sitting around the table 1351 01:05:52,383 --> 01:05:56,909 making decisions were not Automat people. 1352 01:05:56,996 --> 01:05:59,651 They were fast food people. 1353 01:05:59,738 --> 01:06:03,655 I was moving ahead, and I was part of progress. 1354 01:06:03,742 --> 01:06:07,789 I appreciate the old, but you have to move forward. 1355 01:06:11,445 --> 01:06:16,624 - The Automat was archaic at this point. 1356 01:06:16,711 --> 01:06:19,627 [somber music] 1357 01:06:19,714 --> 01:06:26,634 ♪ ♪ 1358 01:06:39,647 --> 01:06:42,868 - They date way back to 1912. 1359 01:06:42,955 --> 01:06:45,784 They were the place where nickels went for lunch. 1360 01:06:45,871 --> 01:06:49,744 They were the Automats, and now there's only one, 1361 01:06:49,831 --> 01:06:51,442 the last Automat. 1362 01:06:51,529 --> 01:06:53,531 Horn & Hardart's on 42nd street 1363 01:06:53,618 --> 01:06:56,534 where the Third Avenue El used to cast a shadow. 1364 01:06:56,621 --> 01:06:58,579 - My mother brought me here when I was a little girl. 1365 01:06:58,666 --> 01:07:00,625 I brought my children here. 1366 01:07:00,712 --> 01:07:04,324 - I had one friend who--who loved the macaroni and cheese. 1367 01:07:04,411 --> 01:07:06,370 She was a little bit hefty. 1368 01:07:06,457 --> 01:07:08,850 - I used to sit there, and at nighttime, all night, 1369 01:07:08,937 --> 01:07:10,461 because I had no place to go. 1370 01:07:10,548 --> 01:07:12,158 You know, I was one of the homeless, 1371 01:07:12,245 --> 01:07:14,465 and I used to sit in there, 1372 01:07:14,552 --> 01:07:16,815 but they never threw us out or anything. 1373 01:07:16,902 --> 01:07:18,991 - Oh, forget about it, are you kiddin' me? 1374 01:07:19,078 --> 01:07:21,515 Baked beans were the best. A nickel, no? 1375 01:07:21,602 --> 01:07:23,039 You don't get nothing for a nickel today. 1376 01:07:23,126 --> 01:07:25,215 - These days, the Horn & Hardart Company 1377 01:07:25,302 --> 01:07:28,087 is mainly concerned with its much faster food franchises, 1378 01:07:28,174 --> 01:07:31,395 operating more than 250 Arby's, Burger Kings, 1379 01:07:31,482 --> 01:07:34,528 and Bojangles. 1380 01:07:34,615 --> 01:07:39,272 - People think the Automat was a precursor to fast food. 1381 01:07:39,359 --> 01:07:41,883 I wouldn't have called it fast food. 1382 01:07:41,970 --> 01:07:47,280 Fast food is more simplified, and that has to do with speed. 1383 01:07:47,367 --> 01:07:49,935 The Automat was about many things, 1384 01:07:50,022 --> 01:07:51,763 but it was not about speed. 1385 01:07:51,850 --> 01:07:55,332 - Horn & Hardart, you knew what you were going to get. 1386 01:07:55,419 --> 01:07:57,464 Fast service? Yes. 1387 01:07:57,551 --> 01:08:00,511 But Horn & Hardart was not fast food. 1388 01:08:00,598 --> 01:08:04,167 We were above all about good quality. 1389 01:08:04,254 --> 01:08:08,780 You don't go to McDonald's for top-quality food. 1390 01:08:09,911 --> 01:08:14,568 And Horn & Hardart also had a much wider range of foods. 1391 01:08:14,655 --> 01:08:16,962 I'm sure you've heard in your interviews, 1392 01:08:17,049 --> 01:08:20,400 people thinking about Horn & Hardart beef pies 1393 01:08:20,487 --> 01:08:22,010 or Horn & Hardart creamed spinach 1394 01:08:22,098 --> 01:08:24,012 or Horn & Hardart chocolate pudding, 1395 01:08:24,100 --> 01:08:27,233 to Horn & Hardart this, that, or the other thing. 1396 01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:29,496 A vast variety of... 1397 01:08:29,583 --> 01:08:32,978 - Carl liked baked beans. We both loved baked beans. 1398 01:08:33,065 --> 01:08:36,808 He loved cream spinach, I liked cream spinach, 1399 01:08:36,895 --> 01:08:42,292 but mostly, we really loved the pies. 1400 01:08:42,379 --> 01:08:44,250 ♪ ♪ 1401 01:08:44,337 --> 01:08:46,992 The strawberry rhubarb-- great crust. 1402 01:08:47,079 --> 01:08:49,081 Great tartness in the rhubarb. 1403 01:08:49,168 --> 01:08:51,997 The strawberries were sweetened with sugar. 1404 01:08:52,084 --> 01:08:54,826 - If we didn't have that, we settled for an apple pie, 1405 01:08:54,913 --> 01:08:56,393 which was also very good. 1406 01:08:56,480 --> 01:08:59,744 - Lemon meringue not only looked big, 1407 01:08:59,831 --> 01:09:02,486 but you could smash your face into it. 1408 01:09:02,573 --> 01:09:05,228 - Chocolate pudding pie, which only came in the winter. 1409 01:09:05,315 --> 01:09:08,100 - Carl mentioned, probably, the chocolate pudding pie 1410 01:09:08,187 --> 01:09:09,667 with the--with the cream. 1411 01:09:09,754 --> 01:09:10,711 He liked that. 1412 01:09:10,798 --> 01:09:12,757 - We waited patiently 1413 01:09:12,844 --> 01:09:14,672 all year for it. 1414 01:09:14,759 --> 01:09:17,805 That was the best pie. 1415 01:09:17,892 --> 01:09:22,636 - Really, it was nothing like their coconut custard pie. 1416 01:09:22,723 --> 01:09:24,116 It was truly heaven. 1417 01:09:24,203 --> 01:09:26,162 I mean, how could anybody even think 1418 01:09:26,249 --> 01:09:29,991 of putting together the coconut and the custard 1419 01:09:30,078 --> 01:09:33,256 and the cream and-- coconut custard pie. 1420 01:09:33,343 --> 01:09:34,692 God made that. 1421 01:09:34,779 --> 01:09:37,695 [swanky music] 1422 01:09:37,782 --> 01:09:43,831 ♪ ♪ 1423 01:09:43,918 --> 01:09:47,487 - I think this was the very last Automat. 1424 01:09:47,574 --> 01:09:50,534 - That's the one on 42nd Street and Third Avenue. 1425 01:09:50,621 --> 01:09:52,405 The last place I closed out. 1426 01:09:52,492 --> 01:09:56,496 They said close that one down yourself personally. 1427 01:09:56,583 --> 01:09:59,238 And that completed my cycle. 1428 01:10:03,851 --> 01:10:05,723 - The door's slammed shut on a piece 1429 01:10:05,810 --> 01:10:07,812 of New York restaurant history as Horn & Hardart 1430 01:10:07,899 --> 01:10:12,251 closed the last of its famous Automats in Midtown Manhattan. 1431 01:10:12,338 --> 01:10:14,949 In years past, there were more than 40 Automats 1432 01:10:15,036 --> 01:10:16,821 scattered all around town, 1433 01:10:16,908 --> 01:10:19,389 but as fast food restaurants proliferated in Midtown, 1434 01:10:19,476 --> 01:10:22,609 the popularity of the chain lost favor with the public, 1435 01:10:22,696 --> 01:10:24,045 and now it's gone forever. 1436 01:10:24,132 --> 01:10:27,048 [solemn music] 1437 01:10:27,135 --> 01:10:34,055 ♪ ♪ 1438 01:10:49,810 --> 01:10:53,553 - That was the end, and it was too bad, 1439 01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:57,688 because it was such a great experiment. 1440 01:10:57,775 --> 01:11:01,605 ♪ ♪ 1441 01:11:01,692 --> 01:11:05,609 It had some style, and it was different. 1442 01:11:05,696 --> 01:11:09,917 The marble, the brass, the floors, the pillars, 1443 01:11:10,004 --> 01:11:15,401 the chatter, the coffee. 1444 01:11:15,488 --> 01:11:18,186 It was the Automat. 1445 01:11:18,274 --> 01:11:20,754 And even though it was beautiful, 1446 01:11:20,841 --> 01:11:22,713 it--it can't work again 1447 01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:27,065 because of the logistics and the economics of today. 1448 01:11:27,152 --> 01:11:31,765 Won't allow anything that simple, naive, and eloquent 1449 01:11:31,852 --> 01:11:34,594 and beautiful to flourish again. 1450 01:11:34,681 --> 01:11:36,640 ♪ ♪ 1451 01:11:36,727 --> 01:11:40,513 It was part of my youth that I really loved. 1452 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,776 I loved the Automat. 1453 01:11:42,863 --> 01:11:44,648 I wish somebody could bring it back, 1454 01:11:44,735 --> 01:11:47,041 but I don't know-- 1455 01:11:47,128 --> 01:11:48,652 that lady isn't there anymore 1456 01:11:48,739 --> 01:11:50,567 who can give you 20 nickels, so... 1457 01:11:50,654 --> 01:11:55,485 ♪ ♪ 1458 01:11:55,572 --> 01:11:57,313 - They should have never closed. 1459 01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:02,579 I had a warehouse loaded with the equipment 1460 01:12:02,666 --> 01:12:03,754 with the key. 1461 01:12:03,841 --> 01:12:05,712 I think I have a key. 1462 01:12:05,799 --> 01:12:08,411 I wonder if the stuff is still there yet. 1463 01:12:08,498 --> 01:12:10,674 I'm talking about a load. 1464 01:12:10,761 --> 01:12:13,677 [wondrous music] 1465 01:12:13,764 --> 01:12:20,640 ♪ ♪ 1466 01:12:42,270 --> 01:12:43,924 - Life changes. Things change. 1467 01:12:44,011 --> 01:12:45,012 We all get a little older, 1468 01:12:45,099 --> 01:12:46,187 but the older you get, 1469 01:12:46,274 --> 01:12:48,538 the more you reflect back on, 1470 01:12:48,625 --> 01:12:50,540 you know, what came in the beginning, 1471 01:12:50,627 --> 01:12:54,587 and the Horn & Hardarts and the Automats of the world. 1472 01:12:54,674 --> 01:12:56,154 It was a remarkable institution 1473 01:12:56,241 --> 01:12:57,851 that meant a lot to those of us 1474 01:12:57,938 --> 01:12:59,723 who are New Yorkers or those in Philadelphia 1475 01:12:59,810 --> 01:13:02,552 that had the same experience. 1476 01:13:02,639 --> 01:13:07,078 - It took a while for society to get it right. 1477 01:13:07,165 --> 01:13:11,387 Even when I moved to Washington, D.C. in 1980, 1478 01:13:11,474 --> 01:13:15,216 many of the clubs were closed to women. 1479 01:13:15,303 --> 01:13:21,614 So my practice was, I wouldn't speak at any venue 1480 01:13:21,701 --> 01:13:23,703 that didn't admit people 1481 01:13:23,790 --> 01:13:26,097 without regard to race, gender. 1482 01:13:26,184 --> 01:13:29,883 People from all walks of life. 1483 01:13:29,970 --> 01:13:31,537 - One of the great things about being 1484 01:13:31,624 --> 01:13:33,496 a historian of the Automat 1485 01:13:33,583 --> 01:13:36,455 is the reaction that people have when I mention it. 1486 01:13:36,542 --> 01:13:38,762 Big smile blossoms across their face 1487 01:13:38,849 --> 01:13:41,068 as, suddenly, they're cast back to the days 1488 01:13:41,155 --> 01:13:42,896 when they were getting their pie 1489 01:13:42,983 --> 01:13:46,465 or a cup of coffee out of that dolphin head. 1490 01:13:46,552 --> 01:13:49,729 - Those little knobs and doors were a gimmick, 1491 01:13:49,816 --> 01:13:52,689 but the place became something different. 1492 01:13:52,776 --> 01:13:56,606 From Edward Hopper's painting of the isolated woman 1493 01:13:56,693 --> 01:14:00,740 to my grandfather sitting in the Horn & Hardart, 1494 01:14:00,827 --> 01:14:04,048 it became a place that everybody could go to. 1495 01:14:04,135 --> 01:14:06,877 - The generosity of spirit was sublime, 1496 01:14:06,964 --> 01:14:08,444 and people got that. 1497 01:14:08,531 --> 01:14:11,577 And as a result, they owned the Automat. 1498 01:14:11,664 --> 01:14:14,580 They felt a very strong affection for it. 1499 01:14:14,667 --> 01:14:16,277 - Horn & Hardart was about the people, 1500 01:14:16,364 --> 01:14:17,714 and I'm glad to have been part of it 1501 01:14:17,801 --> 01:14:19,019 and part of this documentary. 1502 01:14:19,106 --> 01:14:20,717 High five. 1503 01:14:20,804 --> 01:14:23,807 Horn & Hardart rocks. [laughs] 1504 01:14:23,894 --> 01:14:25,678 - It seems very much like 1505 01:14:25,765 --> 01:14:27,680 the--the Automat was a melting pot 1506 01:14:27,767 --> 01:14:29,769 and kind of an equalizer of its time, 1507 01:14:29,856 --> 01:14:31,858 and I--I thank you so much 1508 01:14:31,945 --> 01:14:34,426 for taking the time to--to meet with me. 1509 01:14:34,513 --> 01:14:36,297 - You're more than welcome. 1510 01:14:36,384 --> 01:14:39,910 I think this is a wonderful project. 1511 01:14:39,997 --> 01:14:43,043 - So I wonder if you think it-- if it still lives on, 1512 01:14:43,130 --> 01:14:44,828 and I wonder of what you think-- 1513 01:14:44,915 --> 01:14:47,700 what the message or the lesson can be learned from this. 1514 01:14:49,528 --> 01:14:51,269 - You know my feelings. 1515 01:14:51,356 --> 01:14:52,966 I remain very loyal 1516 01:14:53,053 --> 01:14:55,882 to the concept of what Horn & Hardart was. 1517 01:14:55,969 --> 01:14:59,930 - Could you maybe think of some modern reincarnations? 1518 01:15:00,017 --> 01:15:04,500 Where--where do you see that kind of idealism today? 1519 01:15:04,587 --> 01:15:06,763 - Well, I think the idealism was infused 1520 01:15:06,850 --> 01:15:09,461 into the lives of the people who experienced the Automat. 1521 01:15:09,548 --> 01:15:14,335 In terms of institutions today, I wonder. 1522 01:15:14,422 --> 01:15:16,381 Starbucks? 1523 01:15:16,468 --> 01:15:18,383 - This is a picture of the Automat 1524 01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:21,865 that I keep on a wall in my office 1525 01:15:21,952 --> 01:15:26,739 as a constant reminder of the theater, the romance, 1526 01:15:26,826 --> 01:15:29,786 and the sense of discovery that existed in the Automat. 1527 01:15:29,873 --> 01:15:32,310 ♪ ♪ 1528 01:15:32,397 --> 01:15:34,704 - I think the principles that they pioneered 1529 01:15:34,791 --> 01:15:39,012 and the ideals that they had are still alive today. 1530 01:15:39,099 --> 01:15:41,711 Anybody can do anything 1531 01:15:41,798 --> 01:15:44,452 and embrace the notion that you can be successful 1532 01:15:44,540 --> 01:15:46,498 by being as inclusive as possible, 1533 01:15:46,585 --> 01:15:51,285 as democratic as possible, as generous as possible, 1534 01:15:51,372 --> 01:15:53,026 and still make it. 1535 01:15:53,113 --> 01:15:55,986 [sweeping music] 1536 01:15:56,073 --> 01:16:00,730 ♪ ♪ 1537 01:16:00,817 --> 01:16:04,342 - Well, I wish you great good luck 1538 01:16:04,429 --> 01:16:06,126 with this adventure. 1539 01:16:06,213 --> 01:16:08,172 Use everything I've said. 1540 01:16:08,259 --> 01:16:11,610 I'm popular, I'm famous, 1541 01:16:11,697 --> 01:16:14,874 and make me the spearhead 1542 01:16:14,961 --> 01:16:18,574 of selling this meshugganah documentary. 1543 01:16:18,661 --> 01:16:20,097 - Thank you so much. 1544 01:16:20,184 --> 01:16:21,185 - All right, I'm leaving you now. 1545 01:16:21,272 --> 01:16:22,273 - Thank you. 1546 01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:23,840 - And I'll be in touch. 1547 01:16:23,927 --> 01:16:25,711 I'll be calling every once in a while. 1548 01:16:25,798 --> 01:16:27,234 "Anything happen?" 1549 01:16:27,321 --> 01:16:31,674 ♪ Some people just adore martinis ♪ 1550 01:16:31,761 --> 01:16:36,548 ♪ Others love iced tea ♪ 1551 01:16:36,635 --> 01:16:41,553 ♪ In Venice, they all go for Bellinis ♪ 1552 01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:42,641 ♪ But coffee ♪ 1553 01:16:42,728 --> 01:16:46,427 ♪ Ah, that's for me ♪ 1554 01:16:46,514 --> 01:16:51,955 ♪ I've tasted every kind of brew ♪ 1555 01:16:52,042 --> 01:16:57,264 ♪ At every coffee shop ♪ 1556 01:16:57,351 --> 01:17:02,226 ♪ Some were good, and some were great ♪ 1557 01:17:02,313 --> 01:17:05,925 ♪ But this one was the top ♪ 1558 01:17:06,012 --> 01:17:10,060 ♪ ♪ 1559 01:17:10,147 --> 01:17:15,369 ♪ There was nothing like the coffee at the Automat ♪ 1560 01:17:15,456 --> 01:17:20,940 ♪ Its aroma and its flavor was supreme ♪ 1561 01:17:21,027 --> 01:17:26,380 ♪ From a silver dolphin spout, the coffee poured right out ♪ 1562 01:17:26,467 --> 01:17:31,429 ♪ Not to mention, at the end, a little spurt of cream ♪ 1563 01:17:31,516 --> 01:17:36,652 ♪ There was nothing like the coffee at the Automat ♪ 1564 01:17:36,739 --> 01:17:42,396 ♪ Nothing fancy or pretentious like today ♪ 1565 01:17:42,483 --> 01:17:44,268 ♪ You have to understand ♪ 1566 01:17:44,355 --> 01:17:47,663 ♪ They had no latte grande ♪ 1567 01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:52,711 ♪ No quizzical baristas in your way ♪ 1568 01:17:52,798 --> 01:17:58,064 ♪ There was nothing like the coffee at the Automat ♪ 1569 01:17:58,151 --> 01:18:03,113 ♪ You would find a seat, hang up your coat and hat ♪ 1570 01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,290 ♪ And for just a shiny nickel ♪ 1571 01:18:06,377 --> 01:18:09,206 ♪ Your taste buds you could tickle ♪ 1572 01:18:09,293 --> 01:18:13,689 ♪ With that wonderful, magnificent, unbelievable ♪ 1573 01:18:13,776 --> 01:18:15,821 ♪ Awesome coffee ♪ 1574 01:18:15,908 --> 01:18:22,785 ♪ At the Automat ♪ 1575 01:18:22,872 --> 01:18:40,800 ♪ ♪