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Freeman: Movie theaters...
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I've always loved them.
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But I wasn't recognized
as a movie actor until
the age of 50.
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My breakout role
was as "fast black",
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the pimp in the movie,
street smart.
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And I'll never
forget how I won the role.
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I had seen a pimp
chastising a woman on
the streets of new york
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one night, so
at the audition...
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I tried to channel the
darkness I saw in him.
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00:00:41,642 --> 00:00:45,127
As the scene crescendoed,
I leapt across the table and
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pretended to hold a
knife to the face of
the casting director.
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Well, for a split second
I, I know she thought
that I embodied evil.
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I felt the power too.
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Religions around the
globe have given many
names to our darker impulses...
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Iblis, ravana, satan.
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I want to know why
people believe in him;
what purpose he serves.
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Who is the devil?
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I'm going on a quest.
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To learn about the
devil in all his forms.
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I'll visit the desert
where it is said
satan tempted jesus.
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Yisca: That is what
it's all about.
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Having a constant battle,
with the devil, like jesus...
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Freeman: I'll see how
buddhist monks purge
themselves of evil.
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What you're saying is,
"you just have to
control yourself."
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chokyi: The worse
enemies are within yourself.
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Freeman: I'll
meet a man who fought
battles with demons.
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Man: I said, "I cast
you out foul spirit"
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and my body went berserk.
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Freeman: And I'll
see how other traditions
celebrate evil's defeat.
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Shanker: On the tenth day,
we congregate as a family
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celebrating the god's
victory over, over the demons.
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(theme music plays).
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Freeman: My journey begins
where the christian story
of satan begins...
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In the judean desert, outside
the ancient city of jericho.
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I've come to a 5th
century monastery that
stands as a monument to
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an epic spiritual battle.
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I'm meeting yisca hirani,
an expert in christian
history in the holy land.
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Well now.
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Yisca: This is the church
of saint gerasimos.
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Freeman: Saint gerasimos.
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Yisca: Yes, and he's
lived here, died here,
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and he was a prime
example of a monk,
going to the desert,
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fighting the devil.
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Freeman: St. Gerasimus
came to this to the harsh
desert to prove to god
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he was strong
enough to resist the
devil's temptations.
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Gerasimus was inspired by
a tradition that started
centuries before him.
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Yisca: This specific desert,
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posed the devilish battle
to people before his time.
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Before saint gerasimos,
it was moses in the desert,
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it was elijah,
john the baptist, jesus.
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You can see uh, a depiction
of jesus being tempted.
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As is recorded in three
gospels, in the new testament.
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Freeman: According to
the bible, jesus came to
the judean desert to fast
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for 40 days and 40 nights.
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As his hunger and
exhaustion peaked, the
devil revealed himself.
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Yisca: The devil
says to jesus,
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"you have the ability,
command the stones
to become bread".
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Now, it's easy for jesus
to do, but he says,
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"no I'm not the creator
only god is the creator."
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this has deeper meaning,
than just, eat or don't eat...
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He's offered to be like god...
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And he says no.
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Freeman: The monks living
here today put themselves
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through the same
temptation jesus faced.
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As their own test of
faith, they venture out
to the nearby caves and
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fast for five days a week.
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Why fasting?
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Yisca: Fasting is getting
yourself to a point of crisis.
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Freeman: Just getting
yourself to a point of crisis?
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Yisca: Yes, because
when people are in crisis,
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that's when they're
really dangerous.
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If, their belly's full,
if they're happy, then
they are not dangerous.
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Freeman: But when
you're weak and hungry.
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Yisca: You will do
many bad things.
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There is this monk that
came from far away.
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And he writes
a diary, and he writes
how difficult it is,
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he says,"I'm here
in my little cell,
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and when I look through
the window to see if
the sun has already passed,
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then I know,
that I am in despair,
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then I know that
I am not strong,
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if I look out the window,
it means that I am weak."
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so, he is very,
very openly confesses the
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difficulty of being
just with yourself.
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So where is the devil?
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Inside you.
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Freeman: There is such
a thing as 'human'.
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00:06:09,203 --> 00:06:14,339
It's human to eat,
it's human to drink,
it's human to want...
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You know what
I'm doing I'm playing
devil's advocate here.
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Yisca: Well that is
what it's all about.
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00:06:28,972 --> 00:06:32,808
Having a constant
battle with the
devil, like jesus,
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but not for 40 days,
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for the entire
course of my life.
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Freeman: Just as jesus
resisted the temptation
to use divine power to
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turn rock in to bread,
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the monks resist the
temptation to walk away from
this lonely desert outpost.
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Some of them paid
the ultimate price.
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Yisca: These are the martyrs.
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Freeman: Martyrs?
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Yisca: Martyrs, because
uh back in the seventh century
there was an invasion of
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persians who were coming
with a different religion,
a different agenda.
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This was an opportunity
for the monks to show
that they're not tempted to
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change their religion.
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They are not tempted
to uh run away but rather
they prefer to be like jesus,
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so they've decided
that death in that case
with faith is better than
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life with no faith.
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In this world they
fought the devil and so
in the afterlife they will
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get the reward for that.
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The desert is a place of
schizophrenic, existence.
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It is either
purity or impurity.
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It is either, god
divinity or the devil.
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Freeman: Most christians
try their best to steer
clear of the devil,
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but, for the monks
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who endure this remote
desert monastery, he's an
opponent they willingly face.
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Their only weapon of
defense, their faith.
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Some christians spend
their entire lives locked
in battle with the devil.
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But for buddhists, there
exists an alternative...
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I'm in kathmandu in
nepal to witness an ancient
ritual that aims to win the
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devil over to our side.
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Here at the ka-nying
shedrub ling monastery,
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I'm meeting
chokyi nyima rinpoche.
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A buddhist master,
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and an old acquaintance
of mine whom I first
met at the sacred
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bodhi tree in india.
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Chokyi: From today
you are my friend.
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Hello my friend.
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Freeman: Rinpoche,
how are you?
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Chokyi: How are you?
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Freeman: I am, I am very well.
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Nice to see you again.
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Chokyi: I miss you.
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Freeman: You miss me?
I miss you.
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You don't look any different.
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Chokyi: No?
Freeman: No.
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(both laugh).
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Chokyi: You must come. Come.
Freeman: Right.
Chokyi: Welcome to gumba.
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Freeman: Thank you.
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I have arrived in time to
witness the rinpoche lead a
special prayer ceremony...
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A "puja", as it's called.
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Its purpose?
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To cleanse the temple, and
the monks, of evil spirits.
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(chanting).
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The monks believe
their chanting,
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the horns,
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the drums,
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and the smoke
will purge malevolent forces.
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But the monks also make
offerings of tea, and even
beer to the evil entities.
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Which seems like
it might not purge
the monastery of evil,
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but instead invite it in!
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(chanting)
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freeman: In a
monastery in kathmandu,
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my old friend chokyi nyima
is leading his monks
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in a ceremony to
control evil spirits.
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The puja lasts
more than an hour.
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It leaves me
with questions about how
buddhists understand and
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deal with evil spirits.
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So I ask chokyi rinpoche to
sit down with me and explain.
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His longtime student,
catherine dalton, has
offered to translate for us.
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Freeman: The puja.
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What is the purpose of it?
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(speaking in native language).
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Catherine: We humans
have a physical form,
but there are also beings
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that lack a
physical form.
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There are evil spirits
and if we want to pacify
those kind of
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evil influences and
spirits, the best
way to do that is...
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We use a meditation
practice in the puja;
we actually invite them,
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those kind of spirits,
uh, to come...
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Freeman: You don't
isolate bad guys.
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Chokyi: No, of course not.
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Freeman:
You, you say,
"hey, come here."
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chokyi: Yes, to help. Yes.
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Freeman: 'cause I know
in the christian, uh,
belief, it's just like,
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"satan, you get away.
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Go get behind me."
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chokyi: A different,
different belief.
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Freeman: And you're
saying, "no, no, no,
come here. We can talk."
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chokyi: Yeah.
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00:12:31,101 --> 00:12:35,770
Freeman: The concept of
evil spirits are things
you have to battle.
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00:12:39,876 --> 00:12:43,778
Catherine: We can talk
about evil forces or negative
beings, but what that means,
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actually is just
that anyone who has come
under the influence of
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ignorance behaves
in negative ways.
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We could say that
primarily, they, uh,
enemy or negativity is
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something that
we find within ourselves.
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00:13:01,214 --> 00:13:04,299
Freeman:
As they are chanting and
meditating in the puja,
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the monks visualize
inviting the evil spirits
into their monastery.
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Since these spirits
are negative aspects of
their own minds, their job
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00:13:14,911 --> 00:13:18,513
now is to work to convince
them to become good.
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They do this by
making offerings.
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I noticed that there
was a young man, who would
stand presenting the chalice.
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Chokyi: Yes.
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00:13:40,437 --> 00:13:45,540
Freeman: And he'd
go and throw it out.
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It was beer.
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And then, comes back,
and he has hot tea.
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Can we talk about that?
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00:13:56,336 --> 00:13:57,735
Chokyi: Yes, yes, yes.
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00:13:59,472 --> 00:14:02,440
Some of them
suffer a lot because
they're hungry, thirsty;
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00:14:02,475 --> 00:14:05,610
we will bless to
the beer and black teas,
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00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:09,247
and let them enjoy that.
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00:14:09,282 --> 00:14:10,415
Freeman: But, you
don't drink beer?
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00:14:10,450 --> 00:14:11,399
Chokyi: No, no.
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00:14:11,434 --> 00:14:12,767
Freeman:
Monks don't drink beer.
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00:14:12,802 --> 00:14:14,235
Chokyi: No, we
give it to others.
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00:14:14,271 --> 00:14:17,472
(laughs).
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00:14:17,741 --> 00:14:19,941
Catherine: Using different
substances, using mantras.
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00:14:20,010 --> 00:14:22,076
Doing meditation practice.
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00:14:22,112 --> 00:14:25,747
When all of
those things come together,
it becomes possible to
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00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:30,768
tame those kind
of otherwise wild and
incorrigible spirits
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to tame their minds.
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00:14:32,906 --> 00:14:34,806
Freeman:
Wait a minute,
wait a minute.
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00:14:34,841 --> 00:14:36,808
Wait, you're saying
that bad guys became...
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Chokyi: Become,
yes, good, yeah.
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00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:45,033
Freeman: Through meditation,
chanting and offerings,
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00:14:45,068 --> 00:14:48,469
the monks work to
turn evil spirits good.
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00:14:49,673 --> 00:14:53,107
The spirits that
come around are known
as dharma protectors.
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00:14:54,210 --> 00:14:58,513
And the monks visualize them
driving away any remaining
negative influences.
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00:15:02,402 --> 00:15:07,438
Chokyi: Buddhists mention
the worst enemies are within
yourself, not outside.
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00:15:08,975 --> 00:15:13,177
Freeman: What you're
saying is, you just have
to control yourself.
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00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:14,913
Chokyi: Yes, yes.
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00:15:14,948 --> 00:15:17,015
Freeman: Get a grip on you,
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00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:20,501
and you can change these
thoughts and feelings and
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temptations personal inside.
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Right?
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00:15:27,277 --> 00:15:29,911
Catherine:
Yes, uh, definitely,
the buddha, himself,
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00:15:29,946 --> 00:15:35,233
even taught that, um,
you are your own enemy, and
you're your own protector.
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00:15:36,670 --> 00:15:40,405
(bells and horns)
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00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,407
(snap)
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00:15:44,244 --> 00:15:47,445
(chanting)
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00:15:47,747 --> 00:15:49,314
freeman: Do you
remember the day?
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00:15:49,349 --> 00:15:51,099
Chokyi: Yeah, but
still, you're giving?
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00:15:51,134 --> 00:15:52,867
Freeman: Yeah, I'm
giving now to you.
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00:15:53,336 --> 00:15:54,569
Chokyi: Oh, so sweet.
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00:15:54,604 --> 00:15:56,771
Freeman: No, it's,
it's, it's, may I?
232
00:15:56,806 --> 00:15:58,406
Chokyi: So sweet.
233
00:15:58,441 --> 00:16:01,342
Oh, before I give you,
now you give to me.
234
00:16:01,711 --> 00:16:05,313
Freeman: I had
no idea that I would
have the opportunity...
235
00:16:05,348 --> 00:16:06,497
(kiss).
236
00:16:06,533 --> 00:16:08,533
To be in your presence
again in life.
237
00:16:08,568 --> 00:16:10,068
Chokyi: I love you.
238
00:16:10,103 --> 00:16:11,903
Freeman: So,
thank you, I love you.
239
00:16:11,938 --> 00:16:14,439
Thank you so much.
240
00:16:24,968 --> 00:16:30,204
For christians, the devil
is an evil spirit that must
be expelled from our minds,
241
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,975
you know, "get thee
behind me, satan."
242
00:16:34,911 --> 00:16:39,113
but these buddhist
monks, they accept that
we're all susceptible to
243
00:16:39,149 --> 00:16:42,233
evil thoughts and impulses.
244
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:48,239
So, they don't chase
evil spirits away.
245
00:16:48,441 --> 00:16:52,110
They work to transform
them into protectors.
246
00:16:53,179 --> 00:16:56,681
So, you see
the devil doesn't need
to get behind you,
247
00:16:56,716 --> 00:16:59,100
he just needs
to be coaxed into becoming
248
00:16:59,135 --> 00:17:02,470
someone you don't
mind having alongside you.
249
00:17:03,506 --> 00:17:05,640
Novel, isn't it?
250
00:17:09,379 --> 00:17:11,879
For more than two
millennia of buddhist history,
251
00:17:11,915 --> 00:17:15,800
the battle with
evil has been seen as
an internal struggle.
252
00:17:17,904 --> 00:17:22,073
As christianity grew in
the centuries after jesus,
the devil solidified as an
253
00:17:22,108 --> 00:17:24,142
external foe...
254
00:17:25,612 --> 00:17:28,713
And took familiar
supernatural form.
255
00:17:29,716 --> 00:17:32,300
How did this
transformation happen?
256
00:17:34,003 --> 00:17:37,839
Andrew mcgowan, a
christian scholar
of anglican priest,
257
00:17:37,874 --> 00:17:41,142
has come to the
broumov monastery
in the czech republic
258
00:17:41,177 --> 00:17:46,614
to see first-hand
one of the earliest and most
famous images of the devil.
259
00:17:53,006 --> 00:17:56,574
He's been
invited by the historian
erika harlitz-kern,
260
00:17:56,609 --> 00:18:00,478
who studies how
the devil changed as
christianity developed.
261
00:18:00,814 --> 00:18:03,381
Andrew: Wow.
Well, this is extraordinary.
262
00:18:03,983 --> 00:18:05,600
Erika: This is
the codex gigas.
263
00:18:05,635 --> 00:18:08,369
Codex giga is
latin for big book.
264
00:18:08,404 --> 00:18:14,742
It's 36 inches tall, 20
inches wide, 8.7 inches thick
and it weighs 165 pounds.
265
00:18:17,213 --> 00:18:19,680
The codex gigas
has a second name,
266
00:18:19,716 --> 00:18:22,633
the devil's bible.
267
00:18:23,236 --> 00:18:28,539
Legend has it that, in
the 13th century, a monk
named "herman the recluse",
268
00:18:29,509 --> 00:18:32,944
was sentenced to death for
breaking his monastic vows.
269
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,700
To avoid this fate, he offered
to glorify the monastery
forever by creating a single
270
00:18:40,036 --> 00:18:45,273
book containing all of
mankind's knowledge and
write it in one day.
271
00:18:52,949 --> 00:18:57,902
Near midnight, unable
to complete his task, he
called on the only person
272
00:18:57,937 --> 00:19:00,238
he thought could help.
273
00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:02,874
The devil.
274
00:19:09,048 --> 00:19:12,066
The devil offered to help
herman finish the book...
275
00:19:12,101 --> 00:19:15,236
But took his soul in return.
276
00:19:21,544 --> 00:19:27,215
To seal the deal,
herman included a portrait
of his benefactor.
277
00:19:31,538 --> 00:19:32,870
Andrew: Ah!
278
00:19:37,777 --> 00:19:39,777
This is such an
extraordinary image isn't it?
279
00:19:39,812 --> 00:19:42,413
It's, it's really
quite fearsome or
repulsive even I think.
280
00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:45,867
Erika: Yes and he's looking
straight at you as if he's,
281
00:19:45,902 --> 00:19:47,969
if he's trying to
jump out of the page.
282
00:19:51,474 --> 00:19:54,675
We have the horns,
we have the talons,
283
00:19:54,711 --> 00:19:58,613
the green face and he has,
what appears to be,
284
00:19:58,648 --> 00:20:00,248
two tongues.
285
00:20:00,283 --> 00:20:03,601
He is meant to be frightening.
286
00:20:04,604 --> 00:20:09,840
What makes this image unique,
is the devil is wearing
a loincloth and the red spots
287
00:20:10,810 --> 00:20:14,312
that we see on it are ermine
tails and ermine tails,
288
00:20:14,981 --> 00:20:17,415
in the middle ages,
was a sign of royalty.
289
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:19,800
Kings wore ermine tails.
290
00:20:19,836 --> 00:20:24,372
So, what this image is
telling us, is that this
is the prince of darkness.
291
00:20:25,441 --> 00:20:30,745
He is the lord of
the underworld and
is of royal lineage and
292
00:20:31,247 --> 00:20:33,147
he has royal power.
293
00:20:33,182 --> 00:20:36,500
Andrew: What does this
book have to tell us about the,
294
00:20:36,536 --> 00:20:38,603
way in which the devil
is understood?
295
00:20:38,638 --> 00:20:40,137
Erika: During the middle ages,
296
00:20:40,173 --> 00:20:43,407
the catholic church
comes into its own as
a political institution.
297
00:20:43,443 --> 00:20:49,747
As christianity spreads,
the church is changing the
interpretation of the devil,
298
00:20:51,401 --> 00:20:57,471
to teach its flock about
sin and they're playing on
the fear of the afterlife,
299
00:20:59,108 --> 00:21:04,245
of what can happen
to you if you do not
live a virtuous life.
300
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,532
Andrew: It's almost as
if it's like an advertising
billboard, a warning sign.
301
00:21:08,568 --> 00:21:13,137
This is where you could
end up if your behavior, or
your lack of faith puts you in
302
00:21:13,172 --> 00:21:14,472
the wrong place.
303
00:21:14,507 --> 00:21:17,608
Erika: This is like church
propaganda in the middle ages.
304
00:21:22,882 --> 00:21:24,932
Freeman: The horns,
the talons...
305
00:21:24,968 --> 00:21:28,302
Taking physical form makes
the devil more tenacious.
306
00:21:28,338 --> 00:21:33,341
A creature lurking in the
shadows, capable of grabbing
us, and refusing to let go.
307
00:21:36,813 --> 00:21:39,146
And for some tortured souls,
308
00:21:39,182 --> 00:21:43,167
there's only one way to
expel the devil: Exorcism!
309
00:21:56,482 --> 00:22:01,836
♪ ♪
310
00:22:13,616 --> 00:22:16,300
freeman: We've all seen
someone behaving oddly
on the street, right?
311
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:20,871
Yelling, screaming what
seems like nonsense.
312
00:22:22,575 --> 00:22:28,612
Most of us never think of
demonic possession: We imagine
it's a mental health issue.
313
00:22:32,168 --> 00:22:37,905
But the vatican has a
team of sanctioned disciples
who see demons at work in
314
00:22:38,441 --> 00:22:41,542
every part of society.
315
00:22:42,078 --> 00:22:47,948
They are exorcists and
every day they go into
combat against the devil.
316
00:22:51,771 --> 00:22:57,074
Father don aldo buonaiuto
is one the vatican's
leading exorcists.
317
00:23:02,115 --> 00:23:05,399
I know all about exorcism.
318
00:23:05,635 --> 00:23:08,736
I mean, I saw the movie.
319
00:23:08,771 --> 00:23:13,741
So, I know that, uh, if the
devil resides in the person,
the room that that person is
320
00:23:13,776 --> 00:23:19,246
in turns cold and
that person can turn his
head around 360 degrees.
321
00:23:19,282 --> 00:23:20,881
How close am I?
322
00:23:20,917 --> 00:23:22,800
(speaking in italian).
323
00:23:22,835 --> 00:23:26,337
Interpreter: Some people
think of exorcism as
something superstitious.
324
00:23:28,074 --> 00:23:30,808
But exorcism is most
of all a prayer.
325
00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:36,580
It's a prayer towards the soul
of the person that is asking
for help when its possessed.
326
00:23:38,217 --> 00:23:42,770
Freeman: How does one
proceed with an exorcism?
327
00:23:45,441 --> 00:23:49,176
Interpreter: There is a doctor
and a psychiatrist and him...
328
00:23:49,929 --> 00:23:52,246
(speaking in italian).
329
00:23:52,281 --> 00:23:57,868
For the catholic church,
only the priest that has had
a special direction from the
330
00:23:57,904 --> 00:24:00,704
bishop can do exorcism.
331
00:24:00,973 --> 00:24:02,373
Nobody else can.
332
00:24:02,408 --> 00:24:05,976
Freeman: Is it
necessary for a priest,
who is chosen by the bishop,
333
00:24:06,012 --> 00:24:08,846
to evince a certain talent?
334
00:24:09,749 --> 00:24:12,566
Interpreter: They
need to be particularly
trustworthy priests,
335
00:24:12,602 --> 00:24:15,636
that have an
intense spiritual life.
336
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:20,241
Freeman: You have
to have courage.
Coraggio.
337
00:24:20,843 --> 00:24:22,076
Father aldo: Si.
338
00:24:22,111 --> 00:24:25,279
Freeman: You've done
exorcisms yourself.
339
00:24:25,314 --> 00:24:26,981
How many?
340
00:24:27,550 --> 00:24:28,699
(speaking in italian).
341
00:24:28,734 --> 00:24:30,935
Interpreter: So, he gets
lots and lots of requests.
342
00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:34,538
But the real right hardcore
ones, about ten per week.
343
00:24:37,543 --> 00:24:41,378
Freeman: When someone
comes to you, what tells you
that it's a possession rather
344
00:24:41,414 --> 00:24:43,314
than a mental problem?
345
00:24:45,868 --> 00:24:48,769
Interpreter: The first
thing that an exorcist
does is to see if there
346
00:24:48,804 --> 00:24:51,172
are visible signs.
347
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,208
If the person has an
aversion for the sacred...
348
00:24:54,243 --> 00:24:57,011
Or the knowledge of languages.
349
00:24:57,513 --> 00:25:02,500
He's been following a 15
year old who speaks about ten
different arcane languages.
350
00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:06,837
Father aldo: He speaks in
coptic, in sanskrit, in...
351
00:25:07,974 --> 00:25:10,307
Freeman: Coptic?
352
00:25:10,343 --> 00:25:14,411
Interpreter: Yes.
Sanskrit. Coptic.
353
00:25:15,248 --> 00:25:19,433
And he got a specialist,
a monk whose been studying...
354
00:25:21,470 --> 00:25:23,871
And the monk could
not believe...
355
00:25:23,906 --> 00:25:25,306
Father aldo: He's terrified.
356
00:25:25,341 --> 00:25:26,807
Interpreter: This...
357
00:25:26,842 --> 00:25:30,311
Freeman: Have you
had repeat, go back to the
same person over and over?
358
00:25:30,646 --> 00:25:32,246
(speaking in italian).
359
00:25:32,298 --> 00:25:35,099
Interpreter: The
same person goes to
see the same exorcist for
360
00:25:35,134 --> 00:25:37,601
more than two or
three years sometimes.
361
00:25:37,637 --> 00:25:39,103
(speaking in italian).
362
00:25:39,138 --> 00:25:40,571
It's like a cure.
363
00:25:40,606 --> 00:25:42,239
Like, you cure the body.
364
00:25:42,275 --> 00:25:44,108
You cure the soul.
365
00:25:44,844 --> 00:25:49,613
Freeman: Is it possible
to witness one?
366
00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:53,234
(speaking in italian).
367
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:57,705
Interpreter: According to the
church the prayer of exorcism
cannot be shown to the public.
368
00:26:00,910 --> 00:26:04,111
Freeman: I can't see a
priest perform an exorcism.
369
00:26:04,146 --> 00:26:08,999
But I can speak to a person
who's been on the receiving
end of many exorcisms.
370
00:26:16,375 --> 00:26:17,875
Thank you very much
for talking to me.
371
00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:19,209
Really appreciate it.
372
00:26:19,245 --> 00:26:20,611
Man: You're welcome.
373
00:26:20,646 --> 00:26:24,782
Freeman: I wanna point
out that, uh, you want
to remain anonymous.
374
00:26:24,817 --> 00:26:26,600
Why?
375
00:26:26,636 --> 00:26:28,502
Man: I'm a physicist.
376
00:26:28,537 --> 00:26:33,907
I do a lot of consulting work
for high technology companies
and it might be the kind of
377
00:26:34,343 --> 00:26:36,777
thing that makes them
hesitate before deciding,
that I'm the guy they
378
00:26:36,812 --> 00:26:38,212
wanna do business with.
379
00:26:38,247 --> 00:26:42,366
Freeman: How did you,
a physicist, a scientist,
380
00:26:42,668 --> 00:26:48,172
a man of science, get
into the idea of exorcism?
381
00:26:49,408 --> 00:26:51,542
Man: It wasn't a
straightforward experience.
382
00:26:51,577 --> 00:26:53,644
I was completely
different inside."
383
00:26:55,181 --> 00:26:57,815
I no longer had any ability
to feel any kind of happiness,
384
00:26:57,850 --> 00:26:59,433
any kind of pleasure,
385
00:26:59,468 --> 00:27:02,303
any kind of love or
affection for humans.
386
00:27:02,338 --> 00:27:05,105
I felt like I was
a dead man walking.
387
00:27:05,508 --> 00:27:07,441
I saw a variety of doctors,
388
00:27:07,476 --> 00:27:10,110
endocrinologists,
variety of psychiatrists,
389
00:27:10,629 --> 00:27:12,546
variety of psychologists.
390
00:27:12,581 --> 00:27:15,048
You know, they had
no effects at all.
391
00:27:15,084 --> 00:27:18,235
Freeman: Brain scans found no
tumors or other abnormalities.
392
00:27:19,205 --> 00:27:21,839
No medications helped him.
393
00:27:21,874 --> 00:27:26,276
So he turned, in despair, to
less conventional remedies.
394
00:27:28,781 --> 00:27:32,232
Man: I didn't rule out things
because they sounded crazy
because I'd already gone
395
00:27:32,268 --> 00:27:34,468
through all the things
that sounded sane.
396
00:27:34,503 --> 00:27:38,806
But one of the things
I encountered along the way
was the concept of exorcism.
397
00:27:40,810 --> 00:27:42,710
I was raised catholic.
398
00:27:42,745 --> 00:27:45,579
I thought, you know,
I can say the prayers.
399
00:27:46,482 --> 00:27:48,966
So, one evening as I
was out jogging...
400
00:27:50,369 --> 00:27:53,003
I went through the various
prayers and statements...
401
00:27:55,741 --> 00:27:58,809
I got to the point
where I said, I cast
you out foul spirit.
402
00:28:02,081 --> 00:28:04,281
It was like slamming
into a brick wall.
403
00:28:05,167 --> 00:28:06,400
I stopped abruptly,
404
00:28:06,435 --> 00:28:09,570
I bent over, I had violent
dry heaves, convulsions.
405
00:28:12,141 --> 00:28:15,342
That was very graphic evidence
that something was real.
406
00:28:20,516 --> 00:28:23,167
Freeman: What was your
immediate reaction?
407
00:28:23,469 --> 00:28:26,570
Man: I need to find
somebody who actually
does exorcism for real and
408
00:28:26,605 --> 00:28:28,939
see if he can help me.
409
00:28:28,974 --> 00:28:33,610
And I was fortunate
to live not that far from a
pretty well-known exorcist.
410
00:28:35,247 --> 00:28:37,981
Freeman: What does
exorcism feel like?
411
00:28:41,303 --> 00:28:43,637
Man: Imagine you're
sitting there...
412
00:28:43,672 --> 00:28:47,608
An exorcist, he's
going through the standard
prayers, standard statements.
413
00:28:48,644 --> 00:28:52,846
He gets to the point of
speaking to the demon.
414
00:28:53,983 --> 00:28:56,033
And he says, "I
demand your name."
415
00:28:59,371 --> 00:29:01,538
my body started to react;
416
00:29:04,143 --> 00:29:10,414
twitch, jerk,
make strange and very
nasty faces, convulsions,
417
00:29:13,102 --> 00:29:15,269
thrashing and screaming.
418
00:29:17,473 --> 00:29:19,173
It was very violent.
419
00:29:25,347 --> 00:29:31,602
♪ ♪
420
00:29:32,204 --> 00:29:35,606
(screaming)
421
00:29:39,011 --> 00:29:43,013
I remember I, I needed
band-aids afterwards
for scratches.
422
00:29:43,349 --> 00:29:47,434
Freeman: How do you
know when the exorcism's
been successful?
423
00:29:49,605 --> 00:29:52,806
Because it stops reacting to
the prayers and statements.
424
00:29:56,612 --> 00:30:00,714
But of course, there were
many so the cycle starts up
again with the next demon.
425
00:30:01,083 --> 00:30:03,634
You went through
this, how long?
426
00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:06,170
Man: About five
years, I think.
427
00:30:06,405 --> 00:30:08,338
Freeman: How do you feel now?
428
00:30:08,374 --> 00:30:10,741
Man: I feel human again.
429
00:30:11,410 --> 00:30:15,245
The problem I had was an
incredible lack of emotion.
430
00:30:15,714 --> 00:30:17,181
I couldn't feel love.
431
00:30:17,216 --> 00:30:20,534
I couldn't feel any kind
of positive feeling.
432
00:30:20,569 --> 00:30:25,706
Thankfully, exorcism was
effective in, in restoring
that aspect to my life.
433
00:30:27,276 --> 00:30:30,210
I was very grateful.
434
00:30:31,213 --> 00:30:34,982
Freeman: Being
scientific minded,
435
00:30:38,204 --> 00:30:39,803
how do you square that,
436
00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:44,641
how do you square the fact
that this does exist for you?
437
00:30:44,877 --> 00:30:47,611
Man: You know, the
definition of science
to me is you research,
438
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,847
you theorize, you test.
439
00:30:49,882 --> 00:30:52,933
I didn't know if demons
were real or not, now I do.
440
00:30:54,436 --> 00:30:58,005
I have experienced up
close and personally, in
ways that are unmistakable,
441
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,743
the reality of evil
spirits and the reality of
good through the lord, god.
442
00:31:06,081 --> 00:31:10,300
Freeman: For this tortured
man, the devil's demons
weren't metaphors for
443
00:31:10,336 --> 00:31:12,836
emotional imbalance
or mental distress.
444
00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:19,676
He experienced them as
real, tangible foes that he
struggled for years to expel.
445
00:31:22,147 --> 00:31:26,600
Giving the devil solid
form doesn't necessarily
make him more powerful.
446
00:31:27,403 --> 00:31:31,171
It can make him easier
to fight, and defeat.
447
00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:37,644
But the faithful
don't always win.
448
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,200
And the gods of their
demons can multiply, born in
the gods of another faith.
449
00:31:55,614 --> 00:31:59,766
♪ ♪
450
00:32:00,869 --> 00:32:03,236
freeman: I have
always loved rome.
451
00:32:03,272 --> 00:32:06,340
The street life, the
food, the people.
452
00:32:09,445 --> 00:32:12,846
What's most fascinating
about a city this ancient
is the layers of history.
453
00:32:13,949 --> 00:32:18,468
How one culture takes
over what has gone before and
uses it for its own purposes.
454
00:32:19,939 --> 00:32:26,143
This wall, was built to
protect the romans in the 4th
century bc, now it holds up
455
00:32:26,578 --> 00:32:29,179
this apartment building.
456
00:32:29,214 --> 00:32:32,599
Re-purposing happens in
religion sometimes too.
457
00:32:33,736 --> 00:32:38,372
Sometimes one faith's god,
can become another's devil.
458
00:32:49,101 --> 00:32:53,804
Journalist nelufar hedayat
has come to the ruins of
the ancient roman city of
459
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:56,740
pergamum, in
modern-day turkey.
460
00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:01,144
She's here to meet biblical
archeologist sarah yeomans.
461
00:33:01,180 --> 00:33:03,647
And to find out
why the book of revelation
462
00:33:03,682 --> 00:33:07,467
said this was where
satan had his throne.
463
00:33:08,704 --> 00:33:12,055
Nelufar: This is,
even in its ruinous state,
464
00:33:12,090 --> 00:33:13,774
it looks
absolutely spectacular.
465
00:33:13,809 --> 00:33:14,841
It's beautiful.
466
00:33:14,877 --> 00:33:18,879
Sarah: It is isn't it.
It's really a unique site.
467
00:33:19,314 --> 00:33:24,134
It was a major city in the
greek world in the second and
first centuries bc, and then
468
00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:29,106
it became a very important
city in the roman world once
they took control of this area.
469
00:33:31,176 --> 00:33:37,147
Freeman: The romans built
a forum, an amphitheater,
and several massive temples.
470
00:33:40,369 --> 00:33:44,438
Sarah: So, what we are
looking at are the remains
of the temple of trajan,
471
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,874
this would have
been built in
the second century,
472
00:33:48,210 --> 00:33:53,547
to honor the emperor trajan
and this is representative
of this tradition
473
00:33:53,582 --> 00:33:56,733
of worshiping, uh,
deceased emperors and
474
00:33:56,769 --> 00:33:59,069
their families and by doing so,
475
00:33:59,104 --> 00:34:03,507
it's a way of honoring the
living emperor and honoring
the existing government.
476
00:34:04,510 --> 00:34:07,611
Nelufar: So the romans
honored their...
477
00:34:07,646 --> 00:34:10,747
Their emperors, their
politicians, by turning
them into deities.
478
00:34:11,250 --> 00:34:15,702
Sarah: Yes, having an
imperial cult and requiring
worship of the imperial cult
479
00:34:15,738 --> 00:34:18,271
was a way of
promoting nationalism,
480
00:34:19,341 --> 00:34:22,509
was a way of promoting
what it meant to be roman.
481
00:34:23,779 --> 00:34:27,247
Freeman: This sprawling
city and political
epicenter may have been a
482
00:34:27,282 --> 00:34:29,733
symbol of pride for romans.
483
00:34:30,035 --> 00:34:32,102
But the picture painted
in the early second century
484
00:34:32,137 --> 00:34:35,338
by the book of revelation
implies that christians
485
00:34:35,374 --> 00:34:38,175
living here had a
very different experience.
486
00:34:39,278 --> 00:34:43,013
Sarah: The romans had
no problem with christians
worshiping their god, if you
487
00:34:43,048 --> 00:34:46,333
think about you know a
society that has so many gods,
488
00:34:46,368 --> 00:34:49,269
there's always
room for one more what
brought the christians
489
00:34:49,304 --> 00:34:52,439
into conflict with the roman
authorities was the fact that
490
00:34:52,474 --> 00:34:56,810
they refused to participate
in imperial cult worship.
491
00:34:57,579 --> 00:34:59,846
This was
considered treasonous.
492
00:35:00,182 --> 00:35:01,181
Nelufar: Intolerable.
493
00:35:01,216 --> 00:35:04,134
Sarah: Intolerable for
the roman authorities.
494
00:35:04,369 --> 00:35:07,704
The author of
the book of revelation
emphasizes in his writings,
495
00:35:07,739 --> 00:35:09,806
that there existed
a great tension between
496
00:35:09,842 --> 00:35:11,575
the christians and
the roman authorities.
497
00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:13,343
Nelufar: Right.
498
00:35:13,378 --> 00:35:17,314
Sarah: So it was a city where
we really see the conflict
between roman authorities and
499
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:19,166
the early christians.
500
00:35:19,201 --> 00:35:21,368
Nelufar: How did that
play out in the city?
501
00:35:21,403 --> 00:35:26,573
Sarah: The tensions here
became so hostile that one of
the members of the christian
502
00:35:27,226 --> 00:35:29,743
community was martyred,
was executed...
503
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,481
Nelufar: Who was he and
why was he martyred?
504
00:35:34,850 --> 00:35:40,270
Sarah: His name was antipas
and he was executed we believe
for not being willing to
505
00:35:41,340 --> 00:35:44,608
participate in the worship
of the imperial cult.
506
00:35:45,110 --> 00:35:49,146
Freeman: The location of
antipas's death is not known
for certain, but some theories
507
00:35:49,181 --> 00:35:52,082
place it at pergamum's
temple of zeus.
508
00:35:52,451 --> 00:35:56,336
A place that early christians
came to call satan's throne.
509
00:35:57,272 --> 00:36:01,074
Sarah: What we're seeing
now is essentially what's
left of the foundation.
510
00:36:01,109 --> 00:36:05,078
The altar itself
would have been on
top of what we're seeing.
511
00:36:07,182 --> 00:36:10,133
Everything would have
been faced with white marble.
512
00:36:10,602 --> 00:36:16,273
The altar, we believe,
was dedicated to zeus,
and zeus, in christian minds,
513
00:36:17,809 --> 00:36:19,976
was really in
direct opposition.
514
00:36:20,012 --> 00:36:22,479
In direct conflict
to their own god.
515
00:36:22,514 --> 00:36:24,447
And if you read the
book of revelation,
516
00:36:24,483 --> 00:36:29,502
you have a very
similar type of epic contest
517
00:36:29,538 --> 00:36:32,205
taking place between
good and evil.
518
00:36:33,976 --> 00:36:37,577
Freeman: Christian
tradition says that antipas
was burned to death inside a
519
00:36:37,613 --> 00:36:40,964
hollow bull made of brass.
520
00:36:41,216 --> 00:36:44,868
As the flames heated
the metallic beast,
antipas cried out.
521
00:36:46,338 --> 00:36:50,373
His death screams
escaped from the bull's
open snout, transformed,
522
00:36:50,409 --> 00:36:52,742
cruelly, into snorts.
523
00:36:56,882 --> 00:37:01,334
If they watched
antipas die in the
shadow of the altar of zeus,
524
00:37:01,403 --> 00:37:04,604
these early christians
could be forgiven for
seeing this place
525
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,274
as the devil's throne.
526
00:37:07,743 --> 00:37:10,377
Sarah: The author of
book of revelation is,
527
00:37:10,412 --> 00:37:13,079
very intentionally,
setting up the
528
00:37:13,115 --> 00:37:17,500
roman authorities as
equivalent to satan,
529
00:37:18,036 --> 00:37:21,471
and setting up this
place in particular
530
00:37:21,506 --> 00:37:26,176
as the seat of satan,
very cleverly creating
this opposition,
531
00:37:26,678 --> 00:37:29,613
this sort of them
versus us scenario.
532
00:37:29,881 --> 00:37:34,167
Nelufar: Ah, so this actually
about, about getting the
christians motivated,
533
00:37:34,202 --> 00:37:37,804
he's speaking specifically
about christian brothers
and sisters
534
00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:41,775
suffering at the hands of the
imperial powers, the romans.
535
00:37:42,177 --> 00:37:43,877
Sarah: Precisely.
536
00:37:43,912 --> 00:37:48,181
It's a way to unify the
christian community, and have
them see the roman authorities
537
00:37:48,216 --> 00:37:51,134
and imperial government
as the evil one.
538
00:37:51,903 --> 00:37:54,804
As something to be
resisted at all costs.
539
00:38:02,314 --> 00:38:05,582
Freeman: Associating
the romans and their gods
with the devil may have
540
00:38:05,617 --> 00:38:07,934
helped unify early christians.
541
00:38:08,537 --> 00:38:11,070
But it's
a dangerous tactic.
542
00:38:11,073 --> 00:38:15,475
Driving a wedge between
people of different faiths
543
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:17,677
may just be what
the devil wants.
544
00:38:19,414 --> 00:38:24,067
But there is one place where
a celebration of the devil
brings people together.
545
00:38:32,411 --> 00:38:37,213
I've come back to kathmandu,
in nepal where a party
atmosphere fills the streets.
546
00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:40,233
It's called dashain.
547
00:38:40,702 --> 00:38:43,103
It's the biggest hindu
festival of the year.
548
00:38:44,106 --> 00:38:46,973
I've been invited to join a
typical family celebration.
549
00:38:47,743 --> 00:38:51,711
Bearing traditional
gifts of fruits and sweets,
I've come to the home of
550
00:38:51,747 --> 00:38:53,947
shankar raj pandey.
551
00:38:53,982 --> 00:38:56,166
Shanker: Namaste.
Freeman: Namaste.
552
00:38:56,201 --> 00:38:57,634
Shanker: Welcome morgan.
Freeman: Thank you so much.
553
00:38:57,669 --> 00:38:58,835
Shanker: Nice to
have you here.
554
00:38:58,870 --> 00:39:00,603
Freeman: It is my
pleasure to be here and this...
555
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:02,572
Shanker: Well thank you so
much, thank you so much.
556
00:39:02,607 --> 00:39:04,374
Freeman: For you.
Shanker: Come on in. Please.
557
00:39:04,409 --> 00:39:06,042
So this is my family here.
558
00:39:06,078 --> 00:39:07,177
Family: Oh!
559
00:39:07,212 --> 00:39:08,745
Freeman: Namaste, namaste.
Family: Namaste, namaste.
560
00:39:08,780 --> 00:39:10,580
Freeman: Good looking
bunch of people.
561
00:39:13,135 --> 00:39:18,838
Freeman: Namaste, namaste.
Namaste, namaste.
Namaste, namaste.
562
00:39:22,144 --> 00:39:24,827
So, dashain, it's
a family affair.
563
00:39:24,846 --> 00:39:26,613
Shanker: Yes, very much so.
564
00:39:26,648 --> 00:39:31,801
Dashain has ten main days and
on the 10th day we congregate
as a family celebrating uh,
565
00:39:33,138 --> 00:39:36,740
the gods' victory over,
over the demons.
566
00:39:37,008 --> 00:39:42,379
Freeman: According to hindu
mythology, there was a king
named mahishasura who pleaded
567
00:39:43,682 --> 00:39:48,568
to brahma, the god
of creation, to grant
him immortality.
568
00:39:50,105 --> 00:39:54,674
Brahma granted his wish,
but later came to regret it...
569
00:39:58,213 --> 00:40:01,881
Shanker: So the story
goes that mahishasura
become a demon.
570
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:03,500
Freeman: So he
turned to a bad guy.
571
00:40:03,535 --> 00:40:06,569
Shanker: That's right.
He turned into a real bad guy.
572
00:40:07,172 --> 00:40:10,940
Freeman: Mahishasura
raised a demon army and
began attacking the gods.
573
00:40:13,011 --> 00:40:15,879
Like lucifer,
christianity's fallen angel,
574
00:40:15,914 --> 00:40:19,082
he became an
embodiment of evil.
575
00:40:34,916 --> 00:40:36,733
Here at shankar pandey's house,
576
00:40:36,768 --> 00:40:40,386
they are happily feasting and
performing rituals.
577
00:40:40,605 --> 00:40:45,675
But the divine story behind
dashain; of a powerful demon
attacking the hindu gods...
578
00:40:45,710 --> 00:40:48,778
Doesn't sound to me like
a cause for celebration.
579
00:40:49,147 --> 00:40:51,281
Okay, now we're in
this big battle.
580
00:40:51,316 --> 00:40:54,067
Shanker: Nine days of
battle, of fierce battle.
581
00:40:54,469 --> 00:40:57,504
Freeman: The bad guy,
however, is winning?
582
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,907
Shanker: Well he started
troubling the gods.
583
00:41:02,344 --> 00:41:04,994
Freeman: Mahishasura had
been made invincible.
584
00:41:05,914 --> 00:41:11,801
But the creator god brahma
had made one caveat:
A woman could kill him.
585
00:41:14,506 --> 00:41:18,775
So the gods combined
all their divine
energies to summon a fierce,
586
00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:21,478
10-armed virgin
goddess named durga.
587
00:41:26,434 --> 00:41:29,936
Durga battled the demon
mahishasura for nine days.
588
00:41:34,009 --> 00:41:37,877
Finally, on the 10th
day she defeated him.
589
00:41:46,171 --> 00:41:49,906
But the dashain festival
is about more than simply
remembering this victory of
590
00:41:49,941 --> 00:41:51,941
good over evil.
591
00:41:51,977 --> 00:41:55,345
It's a battle shanker and
many nepalese hindus imagine
592
00:41:55,380 --> 00:41:58,081
is taking place
inside themselves.
593
00:41:58,950 --> 00:42:02,702
Shanker: When you take
the whole epic and, and
put it on to our self...
594
00:42:02,737 --> 00:42:08,708
When we feel all powerful
then there is a tendency
of the demon, within us,
595
00:42:08,977 --> 00:42:10,777
to take precedence over
our goodness...
596
00:42:10,812 --> 00:42:14,714
It's good over evil
but in essence we are
fighting with ourselves.
597
00:42:19,971 --> 00:42:23,439
Freeman: Most homes receive
a visit from a priest for
blessings with holy water.
598
00:42:24,409 --> 00:42:29,245
It's a reminder that there
is at least a kernel of evil
inside everyone and that it
599
00:42:29,281 --> 00:42:31,314
needs to be controlled.
600
00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:33,499
Shanker: After the sprinkling
of the holy waters.
601
00:42:33,535 --> 00:42:36,869
Now the second part
of the function starts,
which the priest will put the
602
00:42:36,905 --> 00:42:38,671
tika onto my mom.
603
00:42:39,307 --> 00:42:41,975
(praying in nepalese).
604
00:42:42,010 --> 00:42:45,678
Freeman: Receiving the
tika bestows good fortune,
health, long life.
605
00:42:46,481 --> 00:42:49,265
And it evokes supreme
power within you.
606
00:42:52,804 --> 00:42:55,555
Shanker: My mom was
first because she's the
eldest right, so we receive...
607
00:42:55,774 --> 00:42:56,973
Freeman: You think so?
608
00:42:57,008 --> 00:42:58,374
Shanker: I think so.
609
00:42:58,410 --> 00:43:01,210
Freeman: How old is your mom?
Shanker: 86.
Freeman: Yep, she is.
610
00:43:01,813 --> 00:43:03,279
Shanker: Because I,
because I read about you.
611
00:43:03,315 --> 00:43:04,914
Freeman: Ah!
612
00:43:05,417 --> 00:43:11,271
(praying in nepalese).
613
00:43:14,075 --> 00:43:20,129
Shanker: So this is
tikka, vermilion powder,
rice, grains, and yogurt and
614
00:43:22,517 --> 00:43:24,801
this is the jamara.
615
00:43:25,036 --> 00:43:27,537
So you just to do this put
it like this, yeah okay.
616
00:43:31,276 --> 00:43:35,111
(praying in nepalese).
617
00:43:35,213 --> 00:43:39,732
And there is a belief
that during the (inaudible)
that you need to lift your feet
618
00:43:39,768 --> 00:43:41,934
off the ground.
619
00:43:42,137 --> 00:43:46,205
Freeman: Elevating your spirit
above your baser tendencies
is both metaphorical and
620
00:43:46,241 --> 00:43:49,208
literal for the nepalese
during the dashain.
621
00:43:50,078 --> 00:43:52,779
Shanker: There is
another aspect which
I think you should see.
622
00:43:52,814 --> 00:43:56,833
There is this concept of uh,
a swing; it's a bamboo swing
that people erect in different
623
00:43:57,502 --> 00:44:02,105
parts of the city and uh
villages and there is a belief
that you need to lift your
624
00:44:02,140 --> 00:44:03,973
feet off the ground.
625
00:44:04,009 --> 00:44:05,908
Freeman: To be airborne.
626
00:44:05,944 --> 00:44:07,577
Shanker: Airborne.
627
00:44:07,612 --> 00:44:12,965
Exactly, so that frees your
spirit and brings in all
the good stuff to our soul.
628
00:44:19,874 --> 00:44:22,608
Freeman: So do you believe
that there is pure evil?
629
00:44:22,644 --> 00:44:24,110
Shanker: Pure evil?
630
00:44:24,145 --> 00:44:26,346
You know, that's 100%
evil is not possible.
631
00:44:26,381 --> 00:44:27,780
I don't think so.
632
00:44:27,816 --> 00:44:30,199
Some person is very good
and someone is very bad.
633
00:44:30,235 --> 00:44:31,367
Freeman: Right.
634
00:44:31,403 --> 00:44:33,736
Shanker: But then every bad
person also has goodness.
635
00:44:33,772 --> 00:44:35,104
Freeman: Somewhere.
636
00:44:35,140 --> 00:44:38,908
Shanker: Somewhere
and if we can, if you
can extrapolate that,
637
00:44:38,943 --> 00:44:43,212
and, and take it out
and, and let him, I mean
let the light come out
638
00:44:43,248 --> 00:44:45,148
so that the darkness
goes away...
639
00:44:45,183 --> 00:44:48,868
Even if it is .001%
there is light and that,
640
00:44:48,903 --> 00:44:52,805
that is enough light to work
towards eliminating darkness.
641
00:44:54,342 --> 00:44:55,808
Freeman: Interesting.
642
00:44:55,844 --> 00:44:59,579
You don't believe
that there is pure evil,
that the devil stands alone.
643
00:44:59,614 --> 00:45:03,015
Shanker: No, if you believe
that god is omnipotent...
644
00:45:03,050 --> 00:45:07,303
That it is all his creation
so good and evil are
just a way of teaching us.
645
00:45:26,107 --> 00:45:28,908
Okay, morgan, you wanna try?
646
00:45:28,943 --> 00:45:30,510
Freeman: Okay what?
Shanker: Be on the swing?
647
00:45:30,545 --> 00:45:31,611
On the swing.
648
00:45:31,646 --> 00:45:33,212
Lift yourself up,
lift your spirit.
649
00:45:33,248 --> 00:45:34,313
Freeman: Me?
650
00:45:34,349 --> 00:45:36,215
Shanker: Yeah, it's safe,
don't worry, it's safe.
651
00:45:36,250 --> 00:45:42,238
Freeman: Okay. Alright. Okay.
I'm not really afraid.
652
00:45:44,642 --> 00:45:50,079
Okay, airborne,
how high can I go?
653
00:45:54,469 --> 00:45:56,335
Shanker: Enjoying it?
654
00:45:56,371 --> 00:45:58,271
Freeman: Yes.
655
00:45:58,740 --> 00:46:01,674
Shanker: Yeah,
now lift up your spirit again.
656
00:46:02,043 --> 00:46:04,043
It should do that
657
00:46:04,078 --> 00:46:06,279
freeman: I'm doing.
Is that spirit lift?
658
00:46:06,881 --> 00:46:08,097
(laughs).
659
00:46:08,132 --> 00:46:11,701
Watch the dismount now,
watch the dismount.
660
00:46:19,911 --> 00:46:24,680
You know,
seeing people's faces
661
00:46:26,668 --> 00:46:29,836
as they soar towards
the heavens
662
00:46:29,871 --> 00:46:33,306
and celebrate the
good inside them,
663
00:46:33,341 --> 00:46:36,676
makes one think of
evil in a different way.
664
00:46:38,713 --> 00:46:41,581
The devil allows us
to test our willpower.
665
00:46:42,383 --> 00:46:47,737
He is the embodiment
of what we must defeat,
both out in the world and
666
00:46:47,772 --> 00:46:49,438
within our hearts.
667
00:46:50,008 --> 00:46:54,777
Striving to beat the devil
has the power to uplift
us, and bring us together.
668
00:46:58,316 --> 00:47:03,970
The nepalese believe
that there is evil even in
the most saintly person and
669
00:47:04,906 --> 00:47:08,007
good in the most devilish.
670
00:47:08,042 --> 00:47:14,146
We should all make the
choice to rise up and slay
the daemons inside us.
671
00:47:19,304 --> 00:47:20,570
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