1 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,748 Freeman: Movie theaters... 2 00:00:15,783 --> 00:00:18,133 I've always loved them. 3 00:00:18,169 --> 00:00:21,303 But I wasn't recognized as a movie actor until the age of 50. 4 00:00:22,506 --> 00:00:24,740 My breakout role was as "fast black", 5 00:00:24,775 --> 00:00:27,443 the pimp in the movie, street smart. 6 00:00:27,478 --> 00:00:30,245 And I'll never forget how I won the role. 7 00:00:31,348 --> 00:00:35,067 I had seen a pimp chastising a woman on the streets of new york 8 00:00:35,536 --> 00:00:37,269 one night, so at the audition... 9 00:00:37,304 --> 00:00:40,472 I tried to channel the darkness I saw in him. 10 00:00:41,642 --> 00:00:45,127 As the scene crescendoed, I leapt across the table and 11 00:00:45,146 --> 00:00:48,881 pretended to hold a knife to the face of the casting director. 12 00:00:48,916 --> 00:00:53,285 Well, for a split second I, I know she thought that I embodied evil. 13 00:00:55,606 --> 00:00:57,673 I felt the power too. 14 00:00:58,676 --> 00:01:03,679 Religions around the globe have given many names to our darker impulses... 15 00:01:03,714 --> 00:01:06,348 Iblis, ravana, satan. 16 00:01:07,368 --> 00:01:11,804 I want to know why people believe in him; what purpose he serves. 17 00:01:14,075 --> 00:01:15,941 Who is the devil? 18 00:01:21,549 --> 00:01:23,248 I'm going on a quest. 19 00:01:23,284 --> 00:01:25,934 To learn about the devil in all his forms. 20 00:01:27,738 --> 00:01:31,774 I'll visit the desert where it is said satan tempted jesus. 21 00:01:33,344 --> 00:01:35,511 Yisca: That is what it's all about. 22 00:01:35,546 --> 00:01:39,081 Having a constant battle, with the devil, like jesus... 23 00:01:41,535 --> 00:01:44,870 Freeman: I'll see how buddhist monks purge themselves of evil. 24 00:01:45,806 --> 00:01:48,407 What you're saying is, "you just have to control yourself." 25 00:01:48,442 --> 00:01:51,310 chokyi: The worse enemies are within yourself. 26 00:01:52,179 --> 00:01:56,482 Freeman: I'll meet a man who fought battles with demons. 27 00:01:57,568 --> 00:01:59,601 Man: I said, "I cast you out foul spirit" 28 00:01:59,637 --> 00:02:01,503 and my body went berserk. 29 00:02:03,107 --> 00:02:07,009 Freeman: And I'll see how other traditions celebrate evil's defeat. 30 00:02:07,444 --> 00:02:09,945 Shanker: On the tenth day, we congregate as a family 31 00:02:09,980 --> 00:02:13,382 celebrating the god's victory over, over the demons. 32 00:02:15,503 --> 00:02:17,836 (theme music plays). 33 00:02:27,047 --> 00:02:31,500 Freeman: My journey begins where the christian story of satan begins... 34 00:02:32,136 --> 00:02:36,238 In the judean desert, outside the ancient city of jericho. 35 00:02:42,179 --> 00:02:46,515 I've come to a 5th century monastery that stands as a monument to 36 00:02:46,550 --> 00:02:48,767 an epic spiritual battle. 37 00:03:00,014 --> 00:03:04,867 I'm meeting yisca hirani, an expert in christian history in the holy land. 38 00:03:06,971 --> 00:03:08,203 Well now. 39 00:03:08,239 --> 00:03:10,906 Yisca: This is the church of saint gerasimos. 40 00:03:11,375 --> 00:03:12,774 Freeman: Saint gerasimos. 41 00:03:12,810 --> 00:03:15,344 Yisca: Yes, and he's lived here, died here, 42 00:03:15,679 --> 00:03:18,914 and he was a prime example of a monk, going to the desert, 43 00:03:19,683 --> 00:03:22,034 fighting the devil. 44 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,707 Freeman: St. Gerasimus came to this to the harsh desert to prove to god 45 00:03:28,742 --> 00:03:31,510 he was strong enough to resist the devil's temptations. 46 00:03:33,581 --> 00:03:37,666 Gerasimus was inspired by a tradition that started centuries before him. 47 00:03:39,436 --> 00:03:41,270 Yisca: This specific desert, 48 00:03:41,305 --> 00:03:45,324 posed the devilish battle to people before his time. 49 00:03:46,277 --> 00:03:49,378 Before saint gerasimos, it was moses in the desert, 50 00:03:50,014 --> 00:03:53,048 it was elijah, john the baptist, jesus. 51 00:03:54,702 --> 00:03:59,071 You can see uh, a depiction of jesus being tempted. 52 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,909 As is recorded in three gospels, in the new testament. 53 00:04:06,814 --> 00:04:11,300 Freeman: According to the bible, jesus came to the judean desert to fast 54 00:04:11,335 --> 00:04:13,952 for 40 days and 40 nights. 55 00:04:14,672 --> 00:04:18,774 As his hunger and exhaustion peaked, the devil revealed himself. 56 00:04:27,835 --> 00:04:29,368 Yisca: The devil says to jesus, 57 00:04:29,403 --> 00:04:32,371 "you have the ability, command the stones to become bread". 58 00:04:34,141 --> 00:04:37,242 Now, it's easy for jesus to do, but he says, 59 00:04:37,745 --> 00:04:41,713 "no I'm not the creator only god is the creator." 60 00:04:44,868 --> 00:04:48,370 this has deeper meaning, than just, eat or don't eat... 61 00:04:49,006 --> 00:04:51,173 He's offered to be like god... 62 00:04:51,208 --> 00:04:53,241 And he says no. 63 00:04:53,978 --> 00:04:56,378 Freeman: The monks living here today put themselves 64 00:04:56,413 --> 00:04:58,780 through the same temptation jesus faced. 65 00:05:00,567 --> 00:05:04,803 As their own test of faith, they venture out to the nearby caves and 66 00:05:04,838 --> 00:05:07,673 fast for five days a week. 67 00:05:08,142 --> 00:05:09,308 Why fasting? 68 00:05:09,343 --> 00:05:12,711 Yisca: Fasting is getting yourself to a point of crisis. 69 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:14,913 Freeman: Just getting yourself to a point of crisis? 70 00:05:14,948 --> 00:05:17,015 Yisca: Yes, because when people are in crisis, 71 00:05:17,034 --> 00:05:19,101 that's when they're really dangerous. 72 00:05:19,136 --> 00:05:22,537 If, their belly's full, if they're happy, then they are not dangerous. 73 00:05:23,540 --> 00:05:25,907 Freeman: But when you're weak and hungry. 74 00:05:25,943 --> 00:05:28,243 Yisca: You will do many bad things. 75 00:05:29,780 --> 00:05:32,614 There is this monk that came from far away. 76 00:05:33,050 --> 00:05:36,635 And he writes a diary, and he writes how difficult it is, 77 00:05:37,705 --> 00:05:39,871 he says,"I'm here in my little cell, 78 00:05:39,907 --> 00:05:43,909 and when I look through the window to see if the sun has already passed, 79 00:05:43,944 --> 00:05:46,845 then I know, that I am in despair, 80 00:05:47,281 --> 00:05:49,114 then I know that I am not strong, 81 00:05:49,149 --> 00:05:51,900 if I look out the window, it means that I am weak." 82 00:05:52,636 --> 00:05:56,505 so, he is very, very openly confesses the 83 00:05:56,540 --> 00:05:59,241 difficulty of being just with yourself. 84 00:06:00,244 --> 00:06:02,077 So where is the devil? 85 00:06:02,112 --> 00:06:04,346 Inside you. 86 00:06:06,250 --> 00:06:08,834 Freeman: There is such a thing as 'human'. 87 00:06:09,203 --> 00:06:14,339 It's human to eat, it's human to drink, it's human to want... 88 00:06:16,310 --> 00:06:19,745 You know what I'm doing I'm playing devil's advocate here. 89 00:06:20,614 --> 00:06:24,399 Yisca: Well that is what it's all about. 90 00:06:28,972 --> 00:06:32,808 Having a constant battle with the devil, like jesus, 91 00:06:34,678 --> 00:06:37,245 but not for 40 days, 92 00:06:37,314 --> 00:06:40,182 for the entire course of my life. 93 00:06:41,485 --> 00:06:44,770 Freeman: Just as jesus resisted the temptation to use divine power to 94 00:06:44,805 --> 00:06:47,172 turn rock in to bread, 95 00:06:47,207 --> 00:06:51,009 the monks resist the temptation to walk away from this lonely desert outpost. 96 00:06:52,846 --> 00:06:55,380 Some of them paid the ultimate price. 97 00:06:56,350 --> 00:06:57,599 Yisca: These are the martyrs. 98 00:06:57,634 --> 00:06:59,367 Freeman: Martyrs? 99 00:06:59,403 --> 00:07:04,406 Yisca: Martyrs, because uh back in the seventh century there was an invasion of 100 00:07:04,441 --> 00:07:08,376 persians who were coming with a different religion, a different agenda. 101 00:07:10,097 --> 00:07:13,899 This was an opportunity for the monks to show that they're not tempted to 102 00:07:13,934 --> 00:07:16,034 change their religion. 103 00:07:16,069 --> 00:07:20,806 They are not tempted to uh run away but rather they prefer to be like jesus, 104 00:07:22,075 --> 00:07:26,545 so they've decided that death in that case with faith is better than 105 00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:30,015 life with no faith. 106 00:07:30,284 --> 00:07:35,203 In this world they fought the devil and so in the afterlife they will 107 00:07:35,239 --> 00:07:37,506 get the reward for that. 108 00:07:39,676 --> 00:07:43,478 The desert is a place of schizophrenic, existence. 109 00:07:44,281 --> 00:07:46,882 It is either purity or impurity. 110 00:07:46,950 --> 00:07:49,701 It is either, god divinity or the devil. 111 00:07:56,043 --> 00:07:59,711 Freeman: Most christians try their best to steer clear of the devil, 112 00:08:01,748 --> 00:08:03,365 but, for the monks 113 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,203 who endure this remote desert monastery, he's an opponent they willingly face. 114 00:08:10,841 --> 00:08:14,042 Their only weapon of defense, their faith. 115 00:08:19,249 --> 00:08:23,134 Some christians spend their entire lives locked in battle with the devil. 116 00:08:25,372 --> 00:08:28,807 But for buddhists, there exists an alternative... 117 00:08:41,238 --> 00:08:46,508 I'm in kathmandu in nepal to witness an ancient ritual that aims to win the 118 00:08:46,543 --> 00:08:49,544 devil over to our side. 119 00:08:53,083 --> 00:08:55,934 Here at the ka-nying shedrub ling monastery, 120 00:08:55,969 --> 00:08:59,371 I'm meeting chokyi nyima rinpoche. 121 00:09:00,574 --> 00:09:01,840 A buddhist master, 122 00:09:01,875 --> 00:09:05,010 and an old acquaintance of mine whom I first met at the sacred 123 00:09:05,045 --> 00:09:07,245 bodhi tree in india. 124 00:09:08,448 --> 00:09:10,515 Chokyi: From today you are my friend. 125 00:09:19,610 --> 00:09:21,276 Hello my friend. 126 00:09:21,311 --> 00:09:24,212 Freeman: Rinpoche, how are you? 127 00:09:24,248 --> 00:09:26,915 Chokyi: How are you? 128 00:09:26,950 --> 00:09:29,935 Freeman: I am, I am very well. 129 00:09:30,337 --> 00:09:31,436 Nice to see you again. 130 00:09:31,471 --> 00:09:32,804 Chokyi: I miss you. 131 00:09:32,839 --> 00:09:35,073 Freeman: You miss me? I miss you. 132 00:09:35,108 --> 00:09:36,374 You don't look any different. 133 00:09:36,410 --> 00:09:37,943 Chokyi: No? Freeman: No. 134 00:09:37,978 --> 00:09:39,444 (both laugh). 135 00:09:39,479 --> 00:09:41,546 Chokyi: You must come. Come. Freeman: Right. Chokyi: Welcome to gumba. 136 00:09:41,582 --> 00:09:43,715 Freeman: Thank you. 137 00:09:43,967 --> 00:09:48,136 I have arrived in time to witness the rinpoche lead a special prayer ceremony... 138 00:09:48,372 --> 00:09:50,905 A "puja", as it's called. 139 00:09:53,927 --> 00:09:55,110 Its purpose? 140 00:09:55,145 --> 00:09:58,029 To cleanse the temple, and the monks, of evil spirits. 141 00:10:00,083 --> 00:10:05,670 (chanting). 142 00:10:07,774 --> 00:10:10,241 The monks believe their chanting, 143 00:10:11,044 --> 00:10:12,711 the horns, 144 00:10:14,348 --> 00:10:16,114 the drums, 145 00:10:17,250 --> 00:10:22,137 and the smoke will purge malevolent forces. 146 00:10:27,377 --> 00:10:31,379 But the monks also make offerings of tea, and even beer to the evil entities. 147 00:10:35,602 --> 00:10:39,804 Which seems like it might not purge the monastery of evil, 148 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,741 but instead invite it in! 149 00:10:56,006 --> 00:11:00,408 (chanting) 150 00:11:06,750 --> 00:11:08,833 freeman: In a monastery in kathmandu, 151 00:11:08,869 --> 00:11:12,270 my old friend chokyi nyima is leading his monks 152 00:11:12,305 --> 00:11:15,440 in a ceremony to control evil spirits. 153 00:11:17,344 --> 00:11:19,811 The puja lasts more than an hour. 154 00:11:22,115 --> 00:11:25,567 It leaves me with questions about how buddhists understand and 155 00:11:25,602 --> 00:11:27,969 deal with evil spirits. 156 00:11:33,043 --> 00:11:37,312 So I ask chokyi rinpoche to sit down with me and explain. 157 00:11:40,333 --> 00:11:44,769 His longtime student, catherine dalton, has offered to translate for us. 158 00:11:45,672 --> 00:11:48,239 Freeman: The puja. 159 00:11:48,542 --> 00:11:50,575 What is the purpose of it? 160 00:11:50,610 --> 00:11:52,911 (speaking in native language). 161 00:11:52,946 --> 00:11:56,681 Catherine: We humans have a physical form, but there are also beings 162 00:11:56,717 --> 00:11:58,967 that lack a physical form. 163 00:11:59,202 --> 00:12:02,937 There are evil spirits and if we want to pacify those kind of 164 00:12:02,973 --> 00:12:06,708 evil influences and spirits, the best way to do that is... 165 00:12:06,977 --> 00:12:10,745 We use a meditation practice in the puja; we actually invite them, 166 00:12:10,781 --> 00:12:13,815 those kind of spirits, uh, to come... 167 00:12:13,850 --> 00:12:15,500 Freeman: You don't isolate bad guys. 168 00:12:15,535 --> 00:12:16,601 Chokyi: No, of course not. 169 00:12:16,636 --> 00:12:17,936 Freeman: You, you say, "hey, come here." 170 00:12:17,971 --> 00:12:19,537 chokyi: Yes, to help. Yes. 171 00:12:19,573 --> 00:12:22,073 Freeman: 'cause I know in the christian, uh, belief, it's just like, 172 00:12:22,109 --> 00:12:23,675 "satan, you get away. 173 00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:25,043 Go get behind me." 174 00:12:25,078 --> 00:12:26,544 chokyi: A different, different belief. 175 00:12:26,580 --> 00:12:29,714 Freeman: And you're saying, "no, no, no, come here. We can talk." 176 00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:31,065 chokyi: Yeah. 177 00:12:31,101 --> 00:12:35,770 Freeman: The concept of evil spirits are things you have to battle. 178 00:12:39,876 --> 00:12:43,778 Catherine: We can talk about evil forces or negative beings, but what that means, 179 00:12:43,814 --> 00:12:47,866 actually is just that anyone who has come under the influence of 180 00:12:47,901 --> 00:12:50,135 ignorance behaves in negative ways. 181 00:12:50,871 --> 00:12:56,608 We could say that primarily, they, uh, enemy or negativity is 182 00:12:56,977 --> 00:12:59,444 something that we find within ourselves. 183 00:13:01,214 --> 00:13:04,299 Freeman: As they are chanting and meditating in the puja, 184 00:13:04,367 --> 00:13:08,136 the monks visualize inviting the evil spirits into their monastery. 185 00:13:10,207 --> 00:13:14,876 Since these spirits are negative aspects of their own minds, their job 186 00:13:14,911 --> 00:13:18,513 now is to work to convince them to become good. 187 00:13:21,401 --> 00:13:24,335 They do this by making offerings. 188 00:13:26,907 --> 00:13:33,244 I noticed that there was a young man, who would stand presenting the chalice. 189 00:13:34,047 --> 00:13:35,847 Chokyi: Yes. 190 00:13:40,437 --> 00:13:45,540 Freeman: And he'd go and throw it out. 191 00:13:48,478 --> 00:13:50,512 It was beer. 192 00:13:50,814 --> 00:13:53,982 And then, comes back, and he has hot tea. 193 00:13:54,634 --> 00:13:56,301 Can we talk about that? 194 00:13:56,336 --> 00:13:57,735 Chokyi: Yes, yes, yes. 195 00:13:59,472 --> 00:14:02,440 Some of them suffer a lot because they're hungry, thirsty; 196 00:14:02,475 --> 00:14:05,610 we will bless to the beer and black teas, 197 00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:09,247 and let them enjoy that. 198 00:14:09,282 --> 00:14:10,415 Freeman: But, you don't drink beer? 199 00:14:10,450 --> 00:14:11,399 Chokyi: No, no. 200 00:14:11,434 --> 00:14:12,767 Freeman: Monks don't drink beer. 201 00:14:12,802 --> 00:14:14,235 Chokyi: No, we give it to others. 202 00:14:14,271 --> 00:14:17,472 (laughs). 203 00:14:17,741 --> 00:14:19,941 Catherine: Using different substances, using mantras. 204 00:14:20,010 --> 00:14:22,076 Doing meditation practice. 205 00:14:22,112 --> 00:14:25,747 When all of those things come together, it becomes possible to 206 00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:30,768 tame those kind of otherwise wild and incorrigible spirits 207 00:14:31,438 --> 00:14:32,871 to tame their minds. 208 00:14:32,906 --> 00:14:34,806 Freeman: Wait a minute, wait a minute. 209 00:14:34,841 --> 00:14:36,808 Wait, you're saying that bad guys became... 210 00:14:36,843 --> 00:14:41,779 Chokyi: Become, yes, good, yeah. 211 00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:45,033 Freeman: Through meditation, chanting and offerings, 212 00:14:45,068 --> 00:14:48,469 the monks work to turn evil spirits good. 213 00:14:49,673 --> 00:14:53,107 The spirits that come around are known as dharma protectors. 214 00:14:54,210 --> 00:14:58,513 And the monks visualize them driving away any remaining negative influences. 215 00:15:02,402 --> 00:15:07,438 Chokyi: Buddhists mention the worst enemies are within yourself, not outside. 216 00:15:08,975 --> 00:15:13,177 Freeman: What you're saying is, you just have to control yourself. 217 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:14,913 Chokyi: Yes, yes. 218 00:15:14,948 --> 00:15:17,015 Freeman: Get a grip on you, 219 00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:20,501 and you can change these thoughts and feelings and 220 00:15:20,537 --> 00:15:23,504 temptations personal inside. 221 00:15:24,107 --> 00:15:27,241 Right? 222 00:15:27,277 --> 00:15:29,911 Catherine: Yes, uh, definitely, the buddha, himself, 223 00:15:29,946 --> 00:15:35,233 even taught that, um, you are your own enemy, and you're your own protector. 224 00:15:36,670 --> 00:15:40,405 (bells and horns) 225 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,407 (snap) 226 00:15:44,244 --> 00:15:47,445 (chanting) 227 00:15:47,747 --> 00:15:49,314 freeman: Do you remember the day? 228 00:15:49,349 --> 00:15:51,099 Chokyi: Yeah, but still, you're giving? 229 00:15:51,134 --> 00:15:52,867 Freeman: Yeah, I'm giving now to you. 230 00:15:53,336 --> 00:15:54,569 Chokyi: Oh, so sweet. 231 00:15:54,604 --> 00:15:56,771 Freeman: No, it's, it's, it's, may I? 232 00:15:56,806 --> 00:15:58,406 Chokyi: So sweet. 233 00:15:58,441 --> 00:16:01,342 Oh, before I give you, now you give to me. 234 00:16:01,711 --> 00:16:05,313 Freeman: I had no idea that I would have the opportunity... 235 00:16:05,348 --> 00:16:06,497 (kiss). 236 00:16:06,533 --> 00:16:08,533 To be in your presence again in life. 237 00:16:08,568 --> 00:16:10,068 Chokyi: I love you. 238 00:16:10,103 --> 00:16:11,903 Freeman: So, thank you, I love you. 239 00:16:11,938 --> 00:16:14,439 Thank you so much. 240 00:16:24,968 --> 00:16:30,204 For christians, the devil is an evil spirit that must be expelled from our minds, 241 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,975 you know, "get thee behind me, satan." 242 00:16:34,911 --> 00:16:39,113 but these buddhist monks, they accept that we're all susceptible to 243 00:16:39,149 --> 00:16:42,233 evil thoughts and impulses. 244 00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:48,239 So, they don't chase evil spirits away. 245 00:16:48,441 --> 00:16:52,110 They work to transform them into protectors. 246 00:16:53,179 --> 00:16:56,681 So, you see the devil doesn't need to get behind you, 247 00:16:56,716 --> 00:16:59,100 he just needs to be coaxed into becoming 248 00:16:59,135 --> 00:17:02,470 someone you don't mind having alongside you. 249 00:17:03,506 --> 00:17:05,640 Novel, isn't it? 250 00:17:09,379 --> 00:17:11,879 For more than two millennia of buddhist history, 251 00:17:11,915 --> 00:17:15,800 the battle with evil has been seen as an internal struggle. 252 00:17:17,904 --> 00:17:22,073 As christianity grew in the centuries after jesus, the devil solidified as an 253 00:17:22,108 --> 00:17:24,142 external foe... 254 00:17:25,612 --> 00:17:28,713 And took familiar supernatural form. 255 00:17:29,716 --> 00:17:32,300 How did this transformation happen? 256 00:17:34,003 --> 00:17:37,839 Andrew mcgowan, a christian scholar of anglican priest, 257 00:17:37,874 --> 00:17:41,142 has come to the broumov monastery in the czech republic 258 00:17:41,177 --> 00:17:46,614 to see first-hand one of the earliest and most famous images of the devil. 259 00:17:53,006 --> 00:17:56,574 He's been invited by the historian erika harlitz-kern, 260 00:17:56,609 --> 00:18:00,478 who studies how the devil changed as christianity developed. 261 00:18:00,814 --> 00:18:03,381 Andrew: Wow. Well, this is extraordinary. 262 00:18:03,983 --> 00:18:05,600 Erika: This is the codex gigas. 263 00:18:05,635 --> 00:18:08,369 Codex giga is latin for big book. 264 00:18:08,404 --> 00:18:14,742 It's 36 inches tall, 20 inches wide, 8.7 inches thick and it weighs 165 pounds. 265 00:18:17,213 --> 00:18:19,680 The codex gigas has a second name, 266 00:18:19,716 --> 00:18:22,633 the devil's bible. 267 00:18:23,236 --> 00:18:28,539 Legend has it that, in the 13th century, a monk named "herman the recluse", 268 00:18:29,509 --> 00:18:32,944 was sentenced to death for breaking his monastic vows. 269 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,700 To avoid this fate, he offered to glorify the monastery forever by creating a single 270 00:18:40,036 --> 00:18:45,273 book containing all of mankind's knowledge and write it in one day. 271 00:18:52,949 --> 00:18:57,902 Near midnight, unable to complete his task, he called on the only person 272 00:18:57,937 --> 00:19:00,238 he thought could help. 273 00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:02,874 The devil. 274 00:19:09,048 --> 00:19:12,066 The devil offered to help herman finish the book... 275 00:19:12,101 --> 00:19:15,236 But took his soul in return. 276 00:19:21,544 --> 00:19:27,215 To seal the deal, herman included a portrait of his benefactor. 277 00:19:31,538 --> 00:19:32,870 Andrew: Ah! 278 00:19:37,777 --> 00:19:39,777 This is such an extraordinary image isn't it? 279 00:19:39,812 --> 00:19:42,413 It's, it's really quite fearsome or repulsive even I think. 280 00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:45,867 Erika: Yes and he's looking straight at you as if he's, 281 00:19:45,902 --> 00:19:47,969 if he's trying to jump out of the page. 282 00:19:51,474 --> 00:19:54,675 We have the horns, we have the talons, 283 00:19:54,711 --> 00:19:58,613 the green face and he has, what appears to be, 284 00:19:58,648 --> 00:20:00,248 two tongues. 285 00:20:00,283 --> 00:20:03,601 He is meant to be frightening. 286 00:20:04,604 --> 00:20:09,840 What makes this image unique, is the devil is wearing a loincloth and the red spots 287 00:20:10,810 --> 00:20:14,312 that we see on it are ermine tails and ermine tails, 288 00:20:14,981 --> 00:20:17,415 in the middle ages, was a sign of royalty. 289 00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:19,800 Kings wore ermine tails. 290 00:20:19,836 --> 00:20:24,372 So, what this image is telling us, is that this is the prince of darkness. 291 00:20:25,441 --> 00:20:30,745 He is the lord of the underworld and is of royal lineage and 292 00:20:31,247 --> 00:20:33,147 he has royal power. 293 00:20:33,182 --> 00:20:36,500 Andrew: What does this book have to tell us about the, 294 00:20:36,536 --> 00:20:38,603 way in which the devil is understood? 295 00:20:38,638 --> 00:20:40,137 Erika: During the middle ages, 296 00:20:40,173 --> 00:20:43,407 the catholic church comes into its own as a political institution. 297 00:20:43,443 --> 00:20:49,747 As christianity spreads, the church is changing the interpretation of the devil, 298 00:20:51,401 --> 00:20:57,471 to teach its flock about sin and they're playing on the fear of the afterlife, 299 00:20:59,108 --> 00:21:04,245 of what can happen to you if you do not live a virtuous life. 300 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,532 Andrew: It's almost as if it's like an advertising billboard, a warning sign. 301 00:21:08,568 --> 00:21:13,137 This is where you could end up if your behavior, or your lack of faith puts you in 302 00:21:13,172 --> 00:21:14,472 the wrong place. 303 00:21:14,507 --> 00:21:17,608 Erika: This is like church propaganda in the middle ages. 304 00:21:22,882 --> 00:21:24,932 Freeman: The horns, the talons... 305 00:21:24,968 --> 00:21:28,302 Taking physical form makes the devil more tenacious. 306 00:21:28,338 --> 00:21:33,341 A creature lurking in the shadows, capable of grabbing us, and refusing to let go. 307 00:21:36,813 --> 00:21:39,146 And for some tortured souls, 308 00:21:39,182 --> 00:21:43,167 there's only one way to expel the devil: Exorcism! 309 00:21:56,482 --> 00:22:01,836 ♪ ♪ 310 00:22:13,616 --> 00:22:16,300 freeman: We've all seen someone behaving oddly on the street, right? 311 00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:20,871 Yelling, screaming what seems like nonsense. 312 00:22:22,575 --> 00:22:28,612 Most of us never think of demonic possession: We imagine it's a mental health issue. 313 00:22:32,168 --> 00:22:37,905 But the vatican has a team of sanctioned disciples who see demons at work in 314 00:22:38,441 --> 00:22:41,542 every part of society. 315 00:22:42,078 --> 00:22:47,948 They are exorcists and every day they go into combat against the devil. 316 00:22:51,771 --> 00:22:57,074 Father don aldo buonaiuto is one the vatican's leading exorcists. 317 00:23:02,115 --> 00:23:05,399 I know all about exorcism. 318 00:23:05,635 --> 00:23:08,736 I mean, I saw the movie. 319 00:23:08,771 --> 00:23:13,741 So, I know that, uh, if the devil resides in the person, the room that that person is 320 00:23:13,776 --> 00:23:19,246 in turns cold and that person can turn his head around 360 degrees. 321 00:23:19,282 --> 00:23:20,881 How close am I? 322 00:23:20,917 --> 00:23:22,800 (speaking in italian). 323 00:23:22,835 --> 00:23:26,337 Interpreter: Some people think of exorcism as something superstitious. 324 00:23:28,074 --> 00:23:30,808 But exorcism is most of all a prayer. 325 00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:36,580 It's a prayer towards the soul of the person that is asking for help when its possessed. 326 00:23:38,217 --> 00:23:42,770 Freeman: How does one proceed with an exorcism? 327 00:23:45,441 --> 00:23:49,176 Interpreter: There is a doctor and a psychiatrist and him... 328 00:23:49,929 --> 00:23:52,246 (speaking in italian). 329 00:23:52,281 --> 00:23:57,868 For the catholic church, only the priest that has had a special direction from the 330 00:23:57,904 --> 00:24:00,704 bishop can do exorcism. 331 00:24:00,973 --> 00:24:02,373 Nobody else can. 332 00:24:02,408 --> 00:24:05,976 Freeman: Is it necessary for a priest, who is chosen by the bishop, 333 00:24:06,012 --> 00:24:08,846 to evince a certain talent? 334 00:24:09,749 --> 00:24:12,566 Interpreter: They need to be particularly trustworthy priests, 335 00:24:12,602 --> 00:24:15,636 that have an intense spiritual life. 336 00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:20,241 Freeman: You have to have courage. Coraggio. 337 00:24:20,843 --> 00:24:22,076 Father aldo: Si. 338 00:24:22,111 --> 00:24:25,279 Freeman: You've done exorcisms yourself. 339 00:24:25,314 --> 00:24:26,981 How many? 340 00:24:27,550 --> 00:24:28,699 (speaking in italian). 341 00:24:28,734 --> 00:24:30,935 Interpreter: So, he gets lots and lots of requests. 342 00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:34,538 But the real right hardcore ones, about ten per week. 343 00:24:37,543 --> 00:24:41,378 Freeman: When someone comes to you, what tells you that it's a possession rather 344 00:24:41,414 --> 00:24:43,314 than a mental problem? 345 00:24:45,868 --> 00:24:48,769 Interpreter: The first thing that an exorcist does is to see if there 346 00:24:48,804 --> 00:24:51,172 are visible signs. 347 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,208 If the person has an aversion for the sacred... 348 00:24:54,243 --> 00:24:57,011 Or the knowledge of languages. 349 00:24:57,513 --> 00:25:02,500 He's been following a 15 year old who speaks about ten different arcane languages. 350 00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:06,837 Father aldo: He speaks in coptic, in sanskrit, in... 351 00:25:07,974 --> 00:25:10,307 Freeman: Coptic? 352 00:25:10,343 --> 00:25:14,411 Interpreter: Yes. Sanskrit. Coptic. 353 00:25:15,248 --> 00:25:19,433 And he got a specialist, a monk whose been studying... 354 00:25:21,470 --> 00:25:23,871 And the monk could not believe... 355 00:25:23,906 --> 00:25:25,306 Father aldo: He's terrified. 356 00:25:25,341 --> 00:25:26,807 Interpreter: This... 357 00:25:26,842 --> 00:25:30,311 Freeman: Have you had repeat, go back to the same person over and over? 358 00:25:30,646 --> 00:25:32,246 (speaking in italian). 359 00:25:32,298 --> 00:25:35,099 Interpreter: The same person goes to see the same exorcist for 360 00:25:35,134 --> 00:25:37,601 more than two or three years sometimes. 361 00:25:37,637 --> 00:25:39,103 (speaking in italian). 362 00:25:39,138 --> 00:25:40,571 It's like a cure. 363 00:25:40,606 --> 00:25:42,239 Like, you cure the body. 364 00:25:42,275 --> 00:25:44,108 You cure the soul. 365 00:25:44,844 --> 00:25:49,613 Freeman: Is it possible to witness one? 366 00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:53,234 (speaking in italian). 367 00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:57,705 Interpreter: According to the church the prayer of exorcism cannot be shown to the public. 368 00:26:00,910 --> 00:26:04,111 Freeman: I can't see a priest perform an exorcism. 369 00:26:04,146 --> 00:26:08,999 But I can speak to a person who's been on the receiving end of many exorcisms. 370 00:26:16,375 --> 00:26:17,875 Thank you very much for talking to me. 371 00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:19,209 Really appreciate it. 372 00:26:19,245 --> 00:26:20,611 Man: You're welcome. 373 00:26:20,646 --> 00:26:24,782 Freeman: I wanna point out that, uh, you want to remain anonymous. 374 00:26:24,817 --> 00:26:26,600 Why? 375 00:26:26,636 --> 00:26:28,502 Man: I'm a physicist. 376 00:26:28,537 --> 00:26:33,907 I do a lot of consulting work for high technology companies and it might be the kind of 377 00:26:34,343 --> 00:26:36,777 thing that makes them hesitate before deciding, that I'm the guy they 378 00:26:36,812 --> 00:26:38,212 wanna do business with. 379 00:26:38,247 --> 00:26:42,366 Freeman: How did you, a physicist, a scientist, 380 00:26:42,668 --> 00:26:48,172 a man of science, get into the idea of exorcism? 381 00:26:49,408 --> 00:26:51,542 Man: It wasn't a straightforward experience. 382 00:26:51,577 --> 00:26:53,644 I was completely different inside." 383 00:26:55,181 --> 00:26:57,815 I no longer had any ability to feel any kind of happiness, 384 00:26:57,850 --> 00:26:59,433 any kind of pleasure, 385 00:26:59,468 --> 00:27:02,303 any kind of love or affection for humans. 386 00:27:02,338 --> 00:27:05,105 I felt like I was a dead man walking. 387 00:27:05,508 --> 00:27:07,441 I saw a variety of doctors, 388 00:27:07,476 --> 00:27:10,110 endocrinologists, variety of psychiatrists, 389 00:27:10,629 --> 00:27:12,546 variety of psychologists. 390 00:27:12,581 --> 00:27:15,048 You know, they had no effects at all. 391 00:27:15,084 --> 00:27:18,235 Freeman: Brain scans found no tumors or other abnormalities. 392 00:27:19,205 --> 00:27:21,839 No medications helped him. 393 00:27:21,874 --> 00:27:26,276 So he turned, in despair, to less conventional remedies. 394 00:27:28,781 --> 00:27:32,232 Man: I didn't rule out things because they sounded crazy because I'd already gone 395 00:27:32,268 --> 00:27:34,468 through all the things that sounded sane. 396 00:27:34,503 --> 00:27:38,806 But one of the things I encountered along the way was the concept of exorcism. 397 00:27:40,810 --> 00:27:42,710 I was raised catholic. 398 00:27:42,745 --> 00:27:45,579 I thought, you know, I can say the prayers. 399 00:27:46,482 --> 00:27:48,966 So, one evening as I was out jogging... 400 00:27:50,369 --> 00:27:53,003 I went through the various prayers and statements... 401 00:27:55,741 --> 00:27:58,809 I got to the point where I said, I cast you out foul spirit. 402 00:28:02,081 --> 00:28:04,281 It was like slamming into a brick wall. 403 00:28:05,167 --> 00:28:06,400 I stopped abruptly, 404 00:28:06,435 --> 00:28:09,570 I bent over, I had violent dry heaves, convulsions. 405 00:28:12,141 --> 00:28:15,342 That was very graphic evidence that something was real. 406 00:28:20,516 --> 00:28:23,167 Freeman: What was your immediate reaction? 407 00:28:23,469 --> 00:28:26,570 Man: I need to find somebody who actually does exorcism for real and 408 00:28:26,605 --> 00:28:28,939 see if he can help me. 409 00:28:28,974 --> 00:28:33,610 And I was fortunate to live not that far from a pretty well-known exorcist. 410 00:28:35,247 --> 00:28:37,981 Freeman: What does exorcism feel like? 411 00:28:41,303 --> 00:28:43,637 Man: Imagine you're sitting there... 412 00:28:43,672 --> 00:28:47,608 An exorcist, he's going through the standard prayers, standard statements. 413 00:28:48,644 --> 00:28:52,846 He gets to the point of speaking to the demon. 414 00:28:53,983 --> 00:28:56,033 And he says, "I demand your name." 415 00:28:59,371 --> 00:29:01,538 my body started to react; 416 00:29:04,143 --> 00:29:10,414 twitch, jerk, make strange and very nasty faces, convulsions, 417 00:29:13,102 --> 00:29:15,269 thrashing and screaming. 418 00:29:17,473 --> 00:29:19,173 It was very violent. 419 00:29:25,347 --> 00:29:31,602 ♪ ♪ 420 00:29:32,204 --> 00:29:35,606 (screaming) 421 00:29:39,011 --> 00:29:43,013 I remember I, I needed band-aids afterwards for scratches. 422 00:29:43,349 --> 00:29:47,434 Freeman: How do you know when the exorcism's been successful? 423 00:29:49,605 --> 00:29:52,806 Because it stops reacting to the prayers and statements. 424 00:29:56,612 --> 00:30:00,714 But of course, there were many so the cycle starts up again with the next demon. 425 00:30:01,083 --> 00:30:03,634 You went through this, how long? 426 00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:06,170 Man: About five years, I think. 427 00:30:06,405 --> 00:30:08,338 Freeman: How do you feel now? 428 00:30:08,374 --> 00:30:10,741 Man: I feel human again. 429 00:30:11,410 --> 00:30:15,245 The problem I had was an incredible lack of emotion. 430 00:30:15,714 --> 00:30:17,181 I couldn't feel love. 431 00:30:17,216 --> 00:30:20,534 I couldn't feel any kind of positive feeling. 432 00:30:20,569 --> 00:30:25,706 Thankfully, exorcism was effective in, in restoring that aspect to my life. 433 00:30:27,276 --> 00:30:30,210 I was very grateful. 434 00:30:31,213 --> 00:30:34,982 Freeman: Being scientific minded, 435 00:30:38,204 --> 00:30:39,803 how do you square that, 436 00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:44,641 how do you square the fact that this does exist for you? 437 00:30:44,877 --> 00:30:47,611 Man: You know, the definition of science to me is you research, 438 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,847 you theorize, you test. 439 00:30:49,882 --> 00:30:52,933 I didn't know if demons were real or not, now I do. 440 00:30:54,436 --> 00:30:58,005 I have experienced up close and personally, in ways that are unmistakable, 441 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,743 the reality of evil spirits and the reality of good through the lord, god. 442 00:31:06,081 --> 00:31:10,300 Freeman: For this tortured man, the devil's demons weren't metaphors for 443 00:31:10,336 --> 00:31:12,836 emotional imbalance or mental distress. 444 00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:19,676 He experienced them as real, tangible foes that he struggled for years to expel. 445 00:31:22,147 --> 00:31:26,600 Giving the devil solid form doesn't necessarily make him more powerful. 446 00:31:27,403 --> 00:31:31,171 It can make him easier to fight, and defeat. 447 00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:37,644 But the faithful don't always win. 448 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,200 And the gods of their demons can multiply, born in the gods of another faith. 449 00:31:55,614 --> 00:31:59,766 ♪ ♪ 450 00:32:00,869 --> 00:32:03,236 freeman: I have always loved rome. 451 00:32:03,272 --> 00:32:06,340 The street life, the food, the people. 452 00:32:09,445 --> 00:32:12,846 What's most fascinating about a city this ancient is the layers of history. 453 00:32:13,949 --> 00:32:18,468 How one culture takes over what has gone before and uses it for its own purposes. 454 00:32:19,939 --> 00:32:26,143 This wall, was built to protect the romans in the 4th century bc, now it holds up 455 00:32:26,578 --> 00:32:29,179 this apartment building. 456 00:32:29,214 --> 00:32:32,599 Re-purposing happens in religion sometimes too. 457 00:32:33,736 --> 00:32:38,372 Sometimes one faith's god, can become another's devil. 458 00:32:49,101 --> 00:32:53,804 Journalist nelufar hedayat has come to the ruins of the ancient roman city of 459 00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:56,740 pergamum, in modern-day turkey. 460 00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:01,144 She's here to meet biblical archeologist sarah yeomans. 461 00:33:01,180 --> 00:33:03,647 And to find out why the book of revelation 462 00:33:03,682 --> 00:33:07,467 said this was where satan had his throne. 463 00:33:08,704 --> 00:33:12,055 Nelufar: This is, even in its ruinous state, 464 00:33:12,090 --> 00:33:13,774 it looks absolutely spectacular. 465 00:33:13,809 --> 00:33:14,841 It's beautiful. 466 00:33:14,877 --> 00:33:18,879 Sarah: It is isn't it. It's really a unique site. 467 00:33:19,314 --> 00:33:24,134 It was a major city in the greek world in the second and first centuries bc, and then 468 00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:29,106 it became a very important city in the roman world once they took control of this area. 469 00:33:31,176 --> 00:33:37,147 Freeman: The romans built a forum, an amphitheater, and several massive temples. 470 00:33:40,369 --> 00:33:44,438 Sarah: So, what we are looking at are the remains of the temple of trajan, 471 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,874 this would have been built in the second century, 472 00:33:48,210 --> 00:33:53,547 to honor the emperor trajan and this is representative of this tradition 473 00:33:53,582 --> 00:33:56,733 of worshiping, uh, deceased emperors and 474 00:33:56,769 --> 00:33:59,069 their families and by doing so, 475 00:33:59,104 --> 00:34:03,507 it's a way of honoring the living emperor and honoring the existing government. 476 00:34:04,510 --> 00:34:07,611 Nelufar: So the romans honored their... 477 00:34:07,646 --> 00:34:10,747 Their emperors, their politicians, by turning them into deities. 478 00:34:11,250 --> 00:34:15,702 Sarah: Yes, having an imperial cult and requiring worship of the imperial cult 479 00:34:15,738 --> 00:34:18,271 was a way of promoting nationalism, 480 00:34:19,341 --> 00:34:22,509 was a way of promoting what it meant to be roman. 481 00:34:23,779 --> 00:34:27,247 Freeman: This sprawling city and political epicenter may have been a 482 00:34:27,282 --> 00:34:29,733 symbol of pride for romans. 483 00:34:30,035 --> 00:34:32,102 But the picture painted in the early second century 484 00:34:32,137 --> 00:34:35,338 by the book of revelation implies that christians 485 00:34:35,374 --> 00:34:38,175 living here had a very different experience. 486 00:34:39,278 --> 00:34:43,013 Sarah: The romans had no problem with christians worshiping their god, if you 487 00:34:43,048 --> 00:34:46,333 think about you know a society that has so many gods, 488 00:34:46,368 --> 00:34:49,269 there's always room for one more what brought the christians 489 00:34:49,304 --> 00:34:52,439 into conflict with the roman authorities was the fact that 490 00:34:52,474 --> 00:34:56,810 they refused to participate in imperial cult worship. 491 00:34:57,579 --> 00:34:59,846 This was considered treasonous. 492 00:35:00,182 --> 00:35:01,181 Nelufar: Intolerable. 493 00:35:01,216 --> 00:35:04,134 Sarah: Intolerable for the roman authorities. 494 00:35:04,369 --> 00:35:07,704 The author of the book of revelation emphasizes in his writings, 495 00:35:07,739 --> 00:35:09,806 that there existed a great tension between 496 00:35:09,842 --> 00:35:11,575 the christians and the roman authorities. 497 00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:13,343 Nelufar: Right. 498 00:35:13,378 --> 00:35:17,314 Sarah: So it was a city where we really see the conflict between roman authorities and 499 00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:19,166 the early christians. 500 00:35:19,201 --> 00:35:21,368 Nelufar: How did that play out in the city? 501 00:35:21,403 --> 00:35:26,573 Sarah: The tensions here became so hostile that one of the members of the christian 502 00:35:27,226 --> 00:35:29,743 community was martyred, was executed... 503 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,481 Nelufar: Who was he and why was he martyred? 504 00:35:34,850 --> 00:35:40,270 Sarah: His name was antipas and he was executed we believe for not being willing to 505 00:35:41,340 --> 00:35:44,608 participate in the worship of the imperial cult. 506 00:35:45,110 --> 00:35:49,146 Freeman: The location of antipas's death is not known for certain, but some theories 507 00:35:49,181 --> 00:35:52,082 place it at pergamum's temple of zeus. 508 00:35:52,451 --> 00:35:56,336 A place that early christians came to call satan's throne. 509 00:35:57,272 --> 00:36:01,074 Sarah: What we're seeing now is essentially what's left of the foundation. 510 00:36:01,109 --> 00:36:05,078 The altar itself would have been on top of what we're seeing. 511 00:36:07,182 --> 00:36:10,133 Everything would have been faced with white marble. 512 00:36:10,602 --> 00:36:16,273 The altar, we believe, was dedicated to zeus, and zeus, in christian minds, 513 00:36:17,809 --> 00:36:19,976 was really in direct opposition. 514 00:36:20,012 --> 00:36:22,479 In direct conflict to their own god. 515 00:36:22,514 --> 00:36:24,447 And if you read the book of revelation, 516 00:36:24,483 --> 00:36:29,502 you have a very similar type of epic contest 517 00:36:29,538 --> 00:36:32,205 taking place between good and evil. 518 00:36:33,976 --> 00:36:37,577 Freeman: Christian tradition says that antipas was burned to death inside a 519 00:36:37,613 --> 00:36:40,964 hollow bull made of brass. 520 00:36:41,216 --> 00:36:44,868 As the flames heated the metallic beast, antipas cried out. 521 00:36:46,338 --> 00:36:50,373 His death screams escaped from the bull's open snout, transformed, 522 00:36:50,409 --> 00:36:52,742 cruelly, into snorts. 523 00:36:56,882 --> 00:37:01,334 If they watched antipas die in the shadow of the altar of zeus, 524 00:37:01,403 --> 00:37:04,604 these early christians could be forgiven for seeing this place 525 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,274 as the devil's throne. 526 00:37:07,743 --> 00:37:10,377 Sarah: The author of book of revelation is, 527 00:37:10,412 --> 00:37:13,079 very intentionally, setting up the 528 00:37:13,115 --> 00:37:17,500 roman authorities as equivalent to satan, 529 00:37:18,036 --> 00:37:21,471 and setting up this place in particular 530 00:37:21,506 --> 00:37:26,176 as the seat of satan, very cleverly creating this opposition, 531 00:37:26,678 --> 00:37:29,613 this sort of them versus us scenario. 532 00:37:29,881 --> 00:37:34,167 Nelufar: Ah, so this actually about, about getting the christians motivated, 533 00:37:34,202 --> 00:37:37,804 he's speaking specifically about christian brothers and sisters 534 00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:41,775 suffering at the hands of the imperial powers, the romans. 535 00:37:42,177 --> 00:37:43,877 Sarah: Precisely. 536 00:37:43,912 --> 00:37:48,181 It's a way to unify the christian community, and have them see the roman authorities 537 00:37:48,216 --> 00:37:51,134 and imperial government as the evil one. 538 00:37:51,903 --> 00:37:54,804 As something to be resisted at all costs. 539 00:38:02,314 --> 00:38:05,582 Freeman: Associating the romans and their gods with the devil may have 540 00:38:05,617 --> 00:38:07,934 helped unify early christians. 541 00:38:08,537 --> 00:38:11,070 But it's a dangerous tactic. 542 00:38:11,073 --> 00:38:15,475 Driving a wedge between people of different faiths 543 00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:17,677 may just be what the devil wants. 544 00:38:19,414 --> 00:38:24,067 But there is one place where a celebration of the devil brings people together. 545 00:38:32,411 --> 00:38:37,213 I've come back to kathmandu, in nepal where a party atmosphere fills the streets. 546 00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:40,233 It's called dashain. 547 00:38:40,702 --> 00:38:43,103 It's the biggest hindu festival of the year. 548 00:38:44,106 --> 00:38:46,973 I've been invited to join a typical family celebration. 549 00:38:47,743 --> 00:38:51,711 Bearing traditional gifts of fruits and sweets, I've come to the home of 550 00:38:51,747 --> 00:38:53,947 shankar raj pandey. 551 00:38:53,982 --> 00:38:56,166 Shanker: Namaste. Freeman: Namaste. 552 00:38:56,201 --> 00:38:57,634 Shanker: Welcome morgan. Freeman: Thank you so much. 553 00:38:57,669 --> 00:38:58,835 Shanker: Nice to have you here. 554 00:38:58,870 --> 00:39:00,603 Freeman: It is my pleasure to be here and this... 555 00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:02,572 Shanker: Well thank you so much, thank you so much. 556 00:39:02,607 --> 00:39:04,374 Freeman: For you. Shanker: Come on in. Please. 557 00:39:04,409 --> 00:39:06,042 So this is my family here. 558 00:39:06,078 --> 00:39:07,177 Family: Oh! 559 00:39:07,212 --> 00:39:08,745 Freeman: Namaste, namaste. Family: Namaste, namaste. 560 00:39:08,780 --> 00:39:10,580 Freeman: Good looking bunch of people. 561 00:39:13,135 --> 00:39:18,838 Freeman: Namaste, namaste. Namaste, namaste. Namaste, namaste. 562 00:39:22,144 --> 00:39:24,827 So, dashain, it's a family affair. 563 00:39:24,846 --> 00:39:26,613 Shanker: Yes, very much so. 564 00:39:26,648 --> 00:39:31,801 Dashain has ten main days and on the 10th day we congregate as a family celebrating uh, 565 00:39:33,138 --> 00:39:36,740 the gods' victory over, over the demons. 566 00:39:37,008 --> 00:39:42,379 Freeman: According to hindu mythology, there was a king named mahishasura who pleaded 567 00:39:43,682 --> 00:39:48,568 to brahma, the god of creation, to grant him immortality. 568 00:39:50,105 --> 00:39:54,674 Brahma granted his wish, but later came to regret it... 569 00:39:58,213 --> 00:40:01,881 Shanker: So the story goes that mahishasura become a demon. 570 00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:03,500 Freeman: So he turned to a bad guy. 571 00:40:03,535 --> 00:40:06,569 Shanker: That's right. He turned into a real bad guy. 572 00:40:07,172 --> 00:40:10,940 Freeman: Mahishasura raised a demon army and began attacking the gods. 573 00:40:13,011 --> 00:40:15,879 Like lucifer, christianity's fallen angel, 574 00:40:15,914 --> 00:40:19,082 he became an embodiment of evil. 575 00:40:34,916 --> 00:40:36,733 Here at shankar pandey's house, 576 00:40:36,768 --> 00:40:40,386 they are happily feasting and performing rituals. 577 00:40:40,605 --> 00:40:45,675 But the divine story behind dashain; of a powerful demon attacking the hindu gods... 578 00:40:45,710 --> 00:40:48,778 Doesn't sound to me like a cause for celebration. 579 00:40:49,147 --> 00:40:51,281 Okay, now we're in this big battle. 580 00:40:51,316 --> 00:40:54,067 Shanker: Nine days of battle, of fierce battle. 581 00:40:54,469 --> 00:40:57,504 Freeman: The bad guy, however, is winning? 582 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,907 Shanker: Well he started troubling the gods. 583 00:41:02,344 --> 00:41:04,994 Freeman: Mahishasura had been made invincible. 584 00:41:05,914 --> 00:41:11,801 But the creator god brahma had made one caveat: A woman could kill him. 585 00:41:14,506 --> 00:41:18,775 So the gods combined all their divine energies to summon a fierce, 586 00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:21,478 10-armed virgin goddess named durga. 587 00:41:26,434 --> 00:41:29,936 Durga battled the demon mahishasura for nine days. 588 00:41:34,009 --> 00:41:37,877 Finally, on the 10th day she defeated him. 589 00:41:46,171 --> 00:41:49,906 But the dashain festival is about more than simply remembering this victory of 590 00:41:49,941 --> 00:41:51,941 good over evil. 591 00:41:51,977 --> 00:41:55,345 It's a battle shanker and many nepalese hindus imagine 592 00:41:55,380 --> 00:41:58,081 is taking place inside themselves. 593 00:41:58,950 --> 00:42:02,702 Shanker: When you take the whole epic and, and put it on to our self... 594 00:42:02,737 --> 00:42:08,708 When we feel all powerful then there is a tendency of the demon, within us, 595 00:42:08,977 --> 00:42:10,777 to take precedence over our goodness... 596 00:42:10,812 --> 00:42:14,714 It's good over evil but in essence we are fighting with ourselves. 597 00:42:19,971 --> 00:42:23,439 Freeman: Most homes receive a visit from a priest for blessings with holy water. 598 00:42:24,409 --> 00:42:29,245 It's a reminder that there is at least a kernel of evil inside everyone and that it 599 00:42:29,281 --> 00:42:31,314 needs to be controlled. 600 00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:33,499 Shanker: After the sprinkling of the holy waters. 601 00:42:33,535 --> 00:42:36,869 Now the second part of the function starts, which the priest will put the 602 00:42:36,905 --> 00:42:38,671 tika onto my mom. 603 00:42:39,307 --> 00:42:41,975 (praying in nepalese). 604 00:42:42,010 --> 00:42:45,678 Freeman: Receiving the tika bestows good fortune, health, long life. 605 00:42:46,481 --> 00:42:49,265 And it evokes supreme power within you. 606 00:42:52,804 --> 00:42:55,555 Shanker: My mom was first because she's the eldest right, so we receive... 607 00:42:55,774 --> 00:42:56,973 Freeman: You think so? 608 00:42:57,008 --> 00:42:58,374 Shanker: I think so. 609 00:42:58,410 --> 00:43:01,210 Freeman: How old is your mom? Shanker: 86. Freeman: Yep, she is. 610 00:43:01,813 --> 00:43:03,279 Shanker: Because I, because I read about you. 611 00:43:03,315 --> 00:43:04,914 Freeman: Ah! 612 00:43:05,417 --> 00:43:11,271 (praying in nepalese). 613 00:43:14,075 --> 00:43:20,129 Shanker: So this is tikka, vermilion powder, rice, grains, and yogurt and 614 00:43:22,517 --> 00:43:24,801 this is the jamara. 615 00:43:25,036 --> 00:43:27,537 So you just to do this put it like this, yeah okay. 616 00:43:31,276 --> 00:43:35,111 (praying in nepalese). 617 00:43:35,213 --> 00:43:39,732 And there is a belief that during the (inaudible) that you need to lift your feet 618 00:43:39,768 --> 00:43:41,934 off the ground. 619 00:43:42,137 --> 00:43:46,205 Freeman: Elevating your spirit above your baser tendencies is both metaphorical and 620 00:43:46,241 --> 00:43:49,208 literal for the nepalese during the dashain. 621 00:43:50,078 --> 00:43:52,779 Shanker: There is another aspect which I think you should see. 622 00:43:52,814 --> 00:43:56,833 There is this concept of uh, a swing; it's a bamboo swing that people erect in different 623 00:43:57,502 --> 00:44:02,105 parts of the city and uh villages and there is a belief that you need to lift your 624 00:44:02,140 --> 00:44:03,973 feet off the ground. 625 00:44:04,009 --> 00:44:05,908 Freeman: To be airborne. 626 00:44:05,944 --> 00:44:07,577 Shanker: Airborne. 627 00:44:07,612 --> 00:44:12,965 Exactly, so that frees your spirit and brings in all the good stuff to our soul. 628 00:44:19,874 --> 00:44:22,608 Freeman: So do you believe that there is pure evil? 629 00:44:22,644 --> 00:44:24,110 Shanker: Pure evil? 630 00:44:24,145 --> 00:44:26,346 You know, that's 100% evil is not possible. 631 00:44:26,381 --> 00:44:27,780 I don't think so. 632 00:44:27,816 --> 00:44:30,199 Some person is very good and someone is very bad. 633 00:44:30,235 --> 00:44:31,367 Freeman: Right. 634 00:44:31,403 --> 00:44:33,736 Shanker: But then every bad person also has goodness. 635 00:44:33,772 --> 00:44:35,104 Freeman: Somewhere. 636 00:44:35,140 --> 00:44:38,908 Shanker: Somewhere and if we can, if you can extrapolate that, 637 00:44:38,943 --> 00:44:43,212 and, and take it out and, and let him, I mean let the light come out 638 00:44:43,248 --> 00:44:45,148 so that the darkness goes away... 639 00:44:45,183 --> 00:44:48,868 Even if it is .001% there is light and that, 640 00:44:48,903 --> 00:44:52,805 that is enough light to work towards eliminating darkness. 641 00:44:54,342 --> 00:44:55,808 Freeman: Interesting. 642 00:44:55,844 --> 00:44:59,579 You don't believe that there is pure evil, that the devil stands alone. 643 00:44:59,614 --> 00:45:03,015 Shanker: No, if you believe that god is omnipotent... 644 00:45:03,050 --> 00:45:07,303 That it is all his creation so good and evil are just a way of teaching us. 645 00:45:26,107 --> 00:45:28,908 Okay, morgan, you wanna try? 646 00:45:28,943 --> 00:45:30,510 Freeman: Okay what? Shanker: Be on the swing? 647 00:45:30,545 --> 00:45:31,611 On the swing. 648 00:45:31,646 --> 00:45:33,212 Lift yourself up, lift your spirit. 649 00:45:33,248 --> 00:45:34,313 Freeman: Me? 650 00:45:34,349 --> 00:45:36,215 Shanker: Yeah, it's safe, don't worry, it's safe. 651 00:45:36,250 --> 00:45:42,238 Freeman: Okay. Alright. Okay. I'm not really afraid. 652 00:45:44,642 --> 00:45:50,079 Okay, airborne, how high can I go? 653 00:45:54,469 --> 00:45:56,335 Shanker: Enjoying it? 654 00:45:56,371 --> 00:45:58,271 Freeman: Yes. 655 00:45:58,740 --> 00:46:01,674 Shanker: Yeah, now lift up your spirit again. 656 00:46:02,043 --> 00:46:04,043 It should do that 657 00:46:04,078 --> 00:46:06,279 freeman: I'm doing. Is that spirit lift? 658 00:46:06,881 --> 00:46:08,097 (laughs). 659 00:46:08,132 --> 00:46:11,701 Watch the dismount now, watch the dismount. 660 00:46:19,911 --> 00:46:24,680 You know, seeing people's faces 661 00:46:26,668 --> 00:46:29,836 as they soar towards the heavens 662 00:46:29,871 --> 00:46:33,306 and celebrate the good inside them, 663 00:46:33,341 --> 00:46:36,676 makes one think of evil in a different way. 664 00:46:38,713 --> 00:46:41,581 The devil allows us to test our willpower. 665 00:46:42,383 --> 00:46:47,737 He is the embodiment of what we must defeat, both out in the world and 666 00:46:47,772 --> 00:46:49,438 within our hearts. 667 00:46:50,008 --> 00:46:54,777 Striving to beat the devil has the power to uplift us, and bring us together. 668 00:46:58,316 --> 00:47:03,970 The nepalese believe that there is evil even in the most saintly person and 669 00:47:04,906 --> 00:47:08,007 good in the most devilish. 670 00:47:08,042 --> 00:47:14,146 We should all make the choice to rise up and slay the daemons inside us. 671 00:47:19,304 --> 00:47:20,570 Captioned by cotter captioning services.