1
00:02:38,241 --> 00:02:39,534
He never said a word.

2
00:02:42,996 --> 00:02:45,457
All kids have secrets. But this?

3
00:02:48,043 --> 00:02:49,628
He tried to tell us, Bill.

4
00:02:51,505 --> 00:02:53,799
He kept saying,
"I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mommy."

5
00:02:54,424 --> 00:02:56,426
- I don't remember that.
- When he wet the bed.

6
00:02:57,302 --> 00:02:58,970
He hasn't done that in years.

7
00:02:59,346 --> 00:03:02,099
Oh, God.
I... I thought he was ashamed, but...

8
00:03:04,351 --> 00:03:05,936
Was he trying to tell us, Bill?

9
00:03:06,269 --> 00:03:07,688
I don't know, Nance.

10
00:03:08,063 --> 00:03:10,023
What did he think happened
to that little boy?

11
00:03:10,607 --> 00:03:12,067
They had to know he wasn't breathing.

12
00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:14,945
He wasn't a part of any of... of that.
He...

13
00:03:17,698 --> 00:03:20,325
- He watched.
- He knew enough to put him on a cross.

14
00:03:22,828 --> 00:03:24,496
He thought it would bring him
back to life.

15
00:03:26,957 --> 00:03:28,709
I never liked that Martin boy.

16
00:03:29,668 --> 00:03:31,753
I told you, we should
never have let him play with him.

17
00:03:31,837 --> 00:03:32,713
He's too rough.

18
00:03:33,338 --> 00:03:34,881
What if he'd done that to Brian instead?

19
00:03:34,965 --> 00:03:38,385
We both thought it was good
seeing Bri finally have friends.

20
00:03:40,762 --> 00:03:42,389
Are they gonna take him from us?

21
00:03:42,472 --> 00:03:43,682
I won't let that happen.

22
00:03:44,725 --> 00:03:45,767
He has a good home.

23
00:03:58,447 --> 00:03:59,448
Hello?

24
00:04:02,409 --> 00:04:05,328
Uh, I'm dealing with a family matter.
Can you tell him...?

25
00:04:07,122 --> 00:04:09,124
Okay.

26
00:04:10,751 --> 00:04:12,085
Okay, I'll be right in.

27
00:04:15,255 --> 00:04:17,174
- Now?
- Gunn wants to see me.

28
00:04:17,716 --> 00:04:19,384
I'll tell him I'm taking the week off.

29
00:04:19,468 --> 00:04:20,969
- A week?
- Nance.

30
00:04:21,428 --> 00:04:23,847
I just meant
we need to get a handle on things.

31
00:04:24,723 --> 00:04:26,099
Find out what's next.

32
00:04:44,075 --> 00:04:44,910
What happened?

33
00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:52,417
I'm sorry, sir.

34
00:04:52,501 --> 00:04:54,002
I know I should be in Atlanta.

35
00:04:54,544 --> 00:04:56,671
- I got a phone call...
- Which is more than I got.

36
00:04:57,798 --> 00:04:58,799
Apologies.

37
00:04:59,216 --> 00:05:01,051
- I should have called.
- At the very least.

38
00:05:01,134 --> 00:05:03,136
The city has been begging
for federal help for weeks,

39
00:05:03,220 --> 00:05:04,888
and we are kicked out
in less than 24 hours.

40
00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:06,348
Yes, you should have called.

41
00:05:06,431 --> 00:05:09,142
I had to hear it
from the Atlanta office this morning.

42
00:05:09,351 --> 00:05:11,353
Apparently, Holden's introduction
wasn't well received

43
00:05:11,436 --> 00:05:12,854
by the safety commissioner?

44
00:05:12,938 --> 00:05:15,106
- Have you spoken with Holden?
- No.

45
00:05:15,190 --> 00:05:17,192
I'm asking you,
as the leader of your department,

46
00:05:17,275 --> 00:05:19,611
what did Holden say
that so offended the city?

47
00:05:19,694 --> 00:05:22,072
The commissioner's excuse
that this wasn't really a kidnapping

48
00:05:22,155 --> 00:05:23,865
was a convenient means to an end.

49
00:05:24,407 --> 00:05:27,285
- What did Holden say?
- Honestly, sir, nothing out of line.

50
00:05:27,661 --> 00:05:29,246
He gave the commissioner an overview:

51
00:05:29,329 --> 00:05:31,039
that we look for connections.

52
00:05:31,122 --> 00:05:34,167
He did explain he felt
there could be a single, black predator.

53
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,628
It may have been more how he said it, sir,

54
00:05:36,711 --> 00:05:37,796
- than what he said.
- How so?

55
00:05:39,047 --> 00:05:42,384
He might have gone into more specifics
than we can support right now.

56
00:05:42,509 --> 00:05:44,594
The impression from the Atlanta SAC

57
00:05:44,678 --> 00:05:45,846
is that Holden was trying

58
00:05:45,929 --> 00:05:47,389
to steer the investigation

59
00:05:47,472 --> 00:05:49,975
into "avenues the city doesn't want
to explore right now,

60
00:05:50,058 --> 00:05:52,727
- at least not publicly."
- Sounds like politics, frankly.

61
00:05:52,811 --> 00:05:54,479
Name me a major city
where there are no politics.

62
00:05:54,563 --> 00:05:56,815
We have to be smarter than this.

63
00:05:56,898 --> 00:05:59,526
If you sense that Holden is wading
into political waters,

64
00:05:59,609 --> 00:06:00,861
it's your job to stop him...

65
00:06:01,653 --> 00:06:04,573
or at least give me the opportunity
to anticipate the fallout.

66
00:06:05,532 --> 00:06:07,367
Yes, sir. You're right.

67
00:06:08,201 --> 00:06:09,578
I should've read the room better.

68
00:06:09,661 --> 00:06:11,913
We want them to understand
why they need us,

69
00:06:11,997 --> 00:06:13,790
not why they should be wary of us.

70
00:06:13,874 --> 00:06:14,916
I understand, sir.

71
00:06:15,125 --> 00:06:17,085
This cannot happen again, Bill.

72
00:06:25,927 --> 00:06:28,889
- You couldn't have called me?
- Bill, it all happened so fast.

73
00:06:28,972 --> 00:06:30,724
Well, someone had enough time
to call Gunn.

74
00:06:31,516 --> 00:06:33,518
Barney told me
there was nothing we could have done.

75
00:06:33,602 --> 00:06:34,644
It's all politics.

76
00:06:34,728 --> 00:06:37,188
- I'm happy to talk to Ted.
- No. You're not talking to anyone.

77
00:06:37,272 --> 00:06:38,690
And it wasn't all politics, Holden,

78
00:06:38,773 --> 00:06:41,776
until you started selling
your unsupported conclusions.

79
00:06:41,860 --> 00:06:43,778
You agreed
the perpetrator is likely black.

80
00:06:44,362 --> 00:06:47,240
Can you see, just for a moment,
how it might be perceived

81
00:06:47,324 --> 00:06:50,285
when you present a profile
without ever having been to a crime scene?

82
00:06:50,869 --> 00:06:53,788
Next time, shut up
until we've done some groundwork!

83
00:07:19,022 --> 00:07:20,982
Sorry you had to hear that.

84
00:07:22,609 --> 00:07:23,652
You look terrible.

85
00:07:24,277 --> 00:07:25,111
Thanks.

86
00:07:26,363 --> 00:07:29,699
So, I take it
the Atlanta trip has been... curtailed?

87
00:07:31,868 --> 00:07:33,495
I can point the finger at Holden,

88
00:07:33,578 --> 00:07:36,623
but I'm supposed to be watching him.
Supposed to be his blinders.

89
00:07:37,082 --> 00:07:39,542
I let him get swept up in the moment,
impressing people,

90
00:07:39,626 --> 00:07:42,587
- then he must've stepped on a land mine.
- It's a full-time job.

91
00:07:43,922 --> 00:07:44,839
Yeah.

92
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,135
Look, I'll get better at it,
but I need to take a little time today.

93
00:07:49,761 --> 00:07:51,513
- Family thing.
- Everything okay?

94
00:07:51,596 --> 00:07:54,849
Yeah. You know, just...
I'll be back in tomorrow.

95
00:07:54,933 --> 00:07:55,892
Okay.

96
00:07:59,980 --> 00:08:03,024
Um... Gregg and I did Henley.

97
00:08:03,608 --> 00:08:04,526
Gregg?

98
00:08:04,609 --> 00:08:06,152
Yeah. We thought you guys
would be gone for weeks,

99
00:08:06,236 --> 00:08:08,154
and we didn't want the interviews to lag.

100
00:08:08,238 --> 00:08:09,072
How'd he do?

101
00:08:09,489 --> 00:08:11,491
A little... hesitant.

102
00:08:12,409 --> 00:08:14,995
- He shit the rug, didn't he?
- It was a team effort.

103
00:08:15,078 --> 00:08:16,788
The transcripts should be done
by tomorrow.

104
00:08:16,871 --> 00:08:19,708
Look forward to it.

105
00:08:31,136 --> 00:08:32,303
We're gonna be late.

106
00:08:32,387 --> 00:08:33,388
We'll be fine.

107
00:08:33,471 --> 00:08:34,806
It starts in two minutes.

108
00:08:35,390 --> 00:08:36,975
So we'll miss the trailers.

109
00:08:37,892 --> 00:08:39,936
By the time we get our drinks
and our seats,

110
00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:41,688
we'll definitely miss something.

111
00:08:42,647 --> 00:08:43,898
This feels like a big deal.

112
00:08:43,982 --> 00:08:45,400
You're passing it.

113
00:08:46,067 --> 00:08:48,319
It's fine. I'm gonna get this spot.

114
00:08:49,529 --> 00:08:51,364
Look,
it's just that I'm one of those people

115
00:08:51,448 --> 00:08:52,782
who needs to see the whole thing.

116
00:08:52,866 --> 00:08:56,870
Like, I like to get my popcorn, my seat.
I like to watch the trailers.

117
00:08:58,038 --> 00:08:59,372
A lot of people feel this way.

118
00:08:59,456 --> 00:09:01,249
If you say so.

119
00:09:04,294 --> 00:09:08,590
But it's gonna take me at least
another minute to pull into this space.

120
00:09:08,923 --> 00:09:12,177
Because I am a really...

121
00:09:12,260 --> 00:09:14,721
slow... parker.

122
00:09:15,597 --> 00:09:17,724
We are definitely...

123
00:09:18,183 --> 00:09:21,061
going to miss... something.

124
00:09:27,442 --> 00:09:30,820
You know, I have an unopened,
very mediocre,

125
00:09:30,904 --> 00:09:33,615
probably spoiled, bottle of Chablis
at my apartment.

126
00:09:36,201 --> 00:09:37,035
Really?

127
00:09:38,036 --> 00:09:39,204
It has a screw top.

128
00:09:41,372 --> 00:09:43,083
I mean, how can I say no to that?

129
00:10:01,434 --> 00:10:02,352
Ah.

130
00:10:06,856 --> 00:10:07,732
What?

131
00:10:08,483 --> 00:10:10,443
Nothing.

132
00:10:15,949 --> 00:10:16,908
Do you have that wine?

133
00:10:18,868 --> 00:10:22,247
I thought for sure I had unsold you
on that.

134
00:10:24,749 --> 00:10:25,875
Hmm.

135
00:10:55,238 --> 00:10:58,032
I didn't picture you living
in a place like this.

136
00:10:59,826 --> 00:11:00,743
Small?

137
00:11:01,494 --> 00:11:02,495
Sparse.

138
00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:05,123
Your life seems very abundant.

139
00:11:05,999 --> 00:11:08,126
Well, one's expansiveness of spirit

140
00:11:08,209 --> 00:11:11,004
needn't be reflected
by one's personal surroundings.

141
00:11:11,838 --> 00:11:12,672
Who said that?

142
00:11:13,506 --> 00:11:16,050
Me, just now.
Didn't you recognize my voice?

143
00:11:20,305 --> 00:11:21,389
He's adorable.

144
00:11:22,223 --> 00:11:25,018
Yeah. He's not bad.

145
00:11:26,561 --> 00:11:27,687
How often do you see him?

146
00:11:28,396 --> 00:11:31,608
I'm seeing him this weekend.
Gonna take him to a Dukes game.

147
00:11:32,317 --> 00:11:33,151
Dukes?

148
00:11:33,234 --> 00:11:34,652
Uh, Double-A baseball.

149
00:11:36,738 --> 00:11:37,572
You miss him?

150
00:11:38,489 --> 00:11:39,407
Of course.

151
00:11:41,075 --> 00:11:44,162
It's just the idea of shaping another life
that terrifies me.

152
00:11:44,245 --> 00:11:45,830
I can barely manage my own.

153
00:11:47,498 --> 00:11:49,542
I still got milk crates for shelves.

154
00:11:49,626 --> 00:11:51,336
I've got real shelves,
and I don't think that shelves equate

155
00:11:51,419 --> 00:11:52,921
to any higher understanding.

156
00:11:54,756 --> 00:11:56,174
What you've done takes courage.

157
00:11:58,343 --> 00:12:00,762
I'm happy
that you're leading an authentic life.

158
00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:03,848
I'm happy to be here.

159
00:12:04,766 --> 00:12:05,808
With you.

160
00:12:13,566 --> 00:12:14,734
Me too.

161
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:29,916
I like baseball.

162
00:12:30,541 --> 00:12:33,294
- <i>You </i>like baseball?
- Uh-huh.

163
00:12:33,544 --> 00:12:36,047
I mean, I'm sure I would
if I ever went to a game.

164
00:12:41,594 --> 00:12:44,722
Wendy, I don't introduce my son
to people I'm dating.

165
00:12:47,267 --> 00:12:48,851
Oh, no. Of course.

166
00:12:49,227 --> 00:12:50,353
It's not...

167
00:12:50,436 --> 00:12:52,146
No, it's... it's fine.

168
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:54,440
I... I'm... I'm sorry. I shouldn't have.

169
00:12:54,524 --> 00:12:55,900
- This is not about you.
- No.

170
00:12:55,984 --> 00:12:57,193
Not specifically you. It's just...

171
00:12:57,277 --> 00:12:59,862
You... You shouldn't introduce your son
to people that you don't know.

172
00:13:00,446 --> 00:13:04,075
You know, I interview the by-products
of promiscuous mothers, and it's...

173
00:13:04,158 --> 00:13:05,618
I'm not saying that you're...

174
00:13:13,042 --> 00:13:15,420
Can we just go back
to just a few minutes ago,

175
00:13:15,503 --> 00:13:17,505
after I had the best sex of my life,

176
00:13:17,588 --> 00:13:20,008
and before I invited myself
to Little League?

177
00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:23,428
It's "minor league."

178
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,015
And... he would really like you.

179
00:13:28,516 --> 00:13:31,269
He's just... He's been through a lot,
and I don't...

180
00:13:31,352 --> 00:13:35,023
I don't want to freak him out.
You know, not until it's... something.

181
00:13:38,818 --> 00:13:41,904
Uh,
was that really the best sex of your life?

182
00:13:47,702 --> 00:13:49,829
Nice save, the dyke mentor story.

183
00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:52,165
And just in time.

184
00:13:52,623 --> 00:13:55,376
I had to come up with something
that would make him feel accepted.

185
00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:56,294
Well, it worked.

186
00:13:56,377 --> 00:13:58,463
But then he adamantly denied
being homosexual.

187
00:13:58,546 --> 00:14:02,050
He was actually more defensive about that
than he was about being called a sadist.

188
00:14:02,133 --> 00:14:04,302
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

189
00:14:04,385 --> 00:14:06,929
He protests a lot of things.
Rape, torture, murder.

190
00:14:07,013 --> 00:14:10,141
By saying that he didn't engage
in those aspects of the crimes,

191
00:14:10,224 --> 00:14:12,393
he characterizes himself
as a nonparticipant.

192
00:14:13,436 --> 00:14:16,147
It's amazing how he's able
to compartmentalize.

193
00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:19,650
We have to consider, Henley was a kid.

194
00:14:20,109 --> 00:14:23,404
He might view his participation
as having been beyond his control.

195
00:14:23,780 --> 00:14:26,407
He knew exactly what was gonna happen
to the victims he procured.

196
00:14:26,491 --> 00:14:28,785
And he made a conscious decision
not to intervene.

197
00:14:28,868 --> 00:14:31,371
So whether he participated or not,
he's culpable.

198
00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:33,915
I think there's a distinction
between procurement,

199
00:14:33,998 --> 00:14:36,042
as fucked up as it is, and murder.

200
00:14:36,125 --> 00:14:37,919
Distinction, yes,
but not absolution.

201
00:14:38,002 --> 00:14:41,089
I'm not excusing him.
I'm just asking,

202
00:14:41,172 --> 00:14:44,092
can a teenager be held responsible
for the actions of an adult?

203
00:14:44,675 --> 00:14:46,010
He was trying to please Corll.

204
00:14:46,094 --> 00:14:47,261
He was probably afraid of him.

205
00:14:47,345 --> 00:14:49,806
Actually, he seemed to be more
in thrall of Corll

206
00:14:49,889 --> 00:14:52,141
- than he was afraid of him.
- So is that why he stuck around?

207
00:14:52,225 --> 00:14:53,643
He got off on watching Corll kill?

208
00:14:53,726 --> 00:14:55,311
How do we know Henley got off on it?

209
00:14:55,853 --> 00:14:58,314
"When I did something,
whatever it was, I enjoyed it."

210
00:14:58,981 --> 00:15:01,526
Bill, he assisted in killing 20 boys.

211
00:15:01,609 --> 00:15:03,444
What could possibly be defensible in that?

212
00:15:03,528 --> 00:15:05,530
All I'm saying is, he was 14.

213
00:15:05,988 --> 00:15:08,408
Can we really lump him in
with Kemper and Brudos?

214
00:15:09,242 --> 00:15:12,537
Without Corll's influence,
would he have ever progressed to murder?

215
00:15:12,620 --> 00:15:13,621
There's no way to know.

216
00:15:13,704 --> 00:15:16,124
But incredibly,
he acknowledges a deep connection

217
00:15:16,207 --> 00:15:18,709
with a man that he saw do horrific things.

218
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,211
Who even threatened to kill him.

219
00:15:20,294 --> 00:15:23,631
Maybe his need for acceptance
was more powerful than any moral boundary.

220
00:15:23,714 --> 00:15:25,341
And Corll exploited that.

221
00:15:28,136 --> 00:15:31,180
I've been thinking
that we should talk about our tactics.

222
00:15:33,474 --> 00:15:35,768
You know, we wouldn't have gotten any
of this if I hadn't...

223
00:15:35,852 --> 00:15:38,312
- Improvised?
- Maybe made some shit up?

224
00:15:38,813 --> 00:15:39,772
Touché.

225
00:15:40,231 --> 00:15:41,983
If we're going to teach
an interview technique,

226
00:15:42,066 --> 00:15:43,943
it can't be
strictly following the instrument.

227
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,155
So far, the only thing
that's worked is to talk about them.

228
00:15:51,784 --> 00:15:52,702
Sir.

229
00:15:56,706 --> 00:15:57,623
Henley?

230
00:15:59,083 --> 00:16:01,794
Quite a maneuver, Dr. Carr.
I thought I was reading Holden.

231
00:16:03,087 --> 00:16:04,964
Gregg, would you give us a minute, please?

232
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,435
Assistant Director Wyman is coming down
in a few weeks.

233
00:16:17,935 --> 00:16:21,355
I'm having a small gathering at my home,
and I'd like you all to come.

234
00:16:21,439 --> 00:16:23,566
Of course. Be happy to, Ted.

235
00:16:23,649 --> 00:16:26,152
Wyman could be a powerful advocate in DC.

236
00:16:26,235 --> 00:16:28,237
I'd like him to hear our narrative
directly from you,

237
00:16:28,321 --> 00:16:29,489
the people who created this.

238
00:16:29,572 --> 00:16:30,406
Yes, sir.

239
00:16:30,740 --> 00:16:32,366
So, it's a working party.

240
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:35,328
Yes, but I want you
to have a good time, Bill. Bring Nancy.

241
00:16:36,370 --> 00:16:38,956
Holden, Dr. Carr,
please feel free to bring a guest.

242
00:16:40,875 --> 00:16:42,668
Thank you, sir. We'll plan on it.

243
00:16:43,419 --> 00:16:45,254
Oh, uh, one more thing.

244
00:16:47,131 --> 00:16:48,049
I got you Manson.

245
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,511
- When?
- Three weeks.

246
00:16:57,850 --> 00:16:58,684
Holy shit.

247
00:16:58,768 --> 00:17:00,937
We have to think carefully
about how we approach this.

248
00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:02,146
Did he say Manson?

249
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:03,481
We approach it like we do every interview.

250
00:17:03,564 --> 00:17:05,316
No. This is the first time
that we'll sit down

251
00:17:05,399 --> 00:17:07,860
with a subject
who hasn't actually taken a life.

252
00:17:07,944 --> 00:17:09,111
Now what would be valuable

253
00:17:09,195 --> 00:17:11,656
would be to look at him
from the team perspective.

254
00:17:12,198 --> 00:17:14,283
Manson was the undisputed leader
of his Family.

255
00:17:14,367 --> 00:17:15,743
Then that's our approach.

256
00:17:17,495 --> 00:17:20,623
<i>The ME's report corroborates
the testimony of the other children:</i>

257
00:17:20,706 --> 00:17:24,001
that Brian did not directly engage
in the activities

258
00:17:24,085 --> 00:17:26,671
that led to the death of the victim.

259
00:17:27,046 --> 00:17:30,174
However, he was present
and, as he has admitted,

260
00:17:30,258 --> 00:17:32,760
he was the one who suggested
placing the victim on the cross.

261
00:17:32,843 --> 00:17:35,596
He thought it would bring Daniel
back to life...

262
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,683
Mrs. Tench, a child has been forever lost
to his family.

263
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:42,228
Brian seemingly acted without malice,
and because of his age,

264
00:17:42,311 --> 00:17:45,106
I'm choosing not to pursue legal action
against him.

265
00:17:45,481 --> 00:17:47,441
But the State cannot ignore

266
00:17:47,525 --> 00:17:49,986
that he had ample opportunity
to go for help

267
00:17:50,069 --> 00:17:52,905
or to speak with you, his parents,
after the fact.

268
00:17:53,239 --> 00:17:54,365
He chose not to.

269
00:17:54,448 --> 00:17:56,826
Either he was evading detection,

270
00:17:56,909 --> 00:17:58,869
or he has no concept of right and wrong.

271
00:17:59,370 --> 00:18:02,832
The State is obligated
to try to understand his motives

272
00:18:02,915 --> 00:18:05,876
to ensure he is not a danger to himself
or the community.

273
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,045
- A danger?
- I am transferring him

274
00:18:08,129 --> 00:18:10,715
to the Department of Health
and Human Services for evaluation.

275
00:18:10,798 --> 00:18:12,633
Will we be able to keep him at home?

276
00:18:12,883 --> 00:18:13,718
Yes.

277
00:18:13,801 --> 00:18:17,305
You have been assigned a caseworker
and a mental health professional.

278
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,892
The court will render decisions
based solely on their evaluations.

279
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:25,187
Your compliance
in this process is mandatory

280
00:18:25,271 --> 00:18:28,357
and will be critical
in determining Brian's future.

281
00:18:29,859 --> 00:18:32,361
Social workers are underpaid
and overeducated.

282
00:18:32,445 --> 00:18:35,740
Don't try and sit this person down
and explain your way out of this.

283
00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:37,783
It won't go over well with them.

284
00:18:38,159 --> 00:18:40,870
No matter what hoops they present,
it's best to jump through.

285
00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:44,040
I thought once they found out Brian
was telling the truth, this would be over.

286
00:18:44,582 --> 00:18:46,292
We get to keep him at home, Nance.

287
00:18:46,792 --> 00:18:49,170
To be poked and prodded by strangers.

288
00:18:49,253 --> 00:18:51,797
- A social worker?
- We don't have a choice.

289
00:18:51,881 --> 00:18:53,507
He didn't do anything.

290
00:18:56,552 --> 00:18:58,512
- Thanks, Art. I appreciate everything...
- It's all right, Bill.

291
00:18:58,596 --> 00:18:59,972
I've got kids myself.

292
00:19:00,890 --> 00:19:01,807
Take care.

293
00:19:08,272 --> 00:19:10,191
Why didn't you say something in there?

294
00:19:11,233 --> 00:19:14,028
- You won't defend your own child?
- It's not a courtroom, honey.

295
00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:17,031
Art's right,
we have to go through the process.

296
00:19:19,033 --> 00:19:21,994
And maybe it's not a bad idea
for Brian to talk to someone.

297
00:19:22,578 --> 00:19:23,621
He's not defective.

298
00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:25,706
He's not a criminal.

299
00:19:26,957 --> 00:19:28,167
I know that, Nance.

300
00:19:29,168 --> 00:19:30,920
He's coming home with us.

301
00:19:31,837 --> 00:19:33,339
Today was a good day.

302
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:06,831
Seriously?

303
00:20:06,914 --> 00:20:07,790
He's not bad.

304
00:20:08,082 --> 00:20:09,208
Just tough to promote?

305
00:20:10,418 --> 00:20:11,836
You're down the rabbit hole.

306
00:20:13,587 --> 00:20:15,423
Did I miss anything that matters?

307
00:20:15,506 --> 00:20:17,967
No. We were just about
to start talking objectives.

308
00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:19,719
Wendy is absolutely right.

309
00:20:19,802 --> 00:20:21,804
- Uh-huh.
- We're not asking Manson about killing.

310
00:20:21,887 --> 00:20:23,764
What we need to find out
is how a diminutive,

311
00:20:23,848 --> 00:20:25,766
uneducated ex-con

312
00:20:25,850 --> 00:20:27,601
convinced a group
of middle-class teenagers

313
00:20:27,685 --> 00:20:29,895
to brutally murder seven strangers.

314
00:20:31,564 --> 00:20:32,565
The killers:

315
00:20:33,357 --> 00:20:35,025
Susan Atkins, 19.

316
00:20:35,109 --> 00:20:36,444
Manson called her "Sadie."

317
00:20:37,153 --> 00:20:38,529
Church choir member.

318
00:20:38,612 --> 00:20:40,489
Linda Kasabian, 20.

319
00:20:40,573 --> 00:20:41,449
Good student.

320
00:20:41,532 --> 00:20:44,493
Described as a "starry-eyed romantic"
by her friends.

321
00:20:45,161 --> 00:20:46,996
Patricia Krenwinkel, 22.

322
00:20:47,079 --> 00:20:49,498
Studied catechism.
Considered becoming a nun.

323
00:20:50,166 --> 00:20:52,460
Mary Brunner, 26.

324
00:20:53,335 --> 00:20:54,170
Librarian.

325
00:20:55,045 --> 00:20:57,506
And Tex Watson, 24.

326
00:20:58,424 --> 00:21:01,427
Honors student,
school paper editor, lettered athlete.

327
00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:03,012
Looks like a high school yearbook.

328
00:21:03,095 --> 00:21:05,514
All grew up in average homes,
had high school educations,

329
00:21:05,598 --> 00:21:06,432
some had college.

330
00:21:06,974 --> 00:21:10,352
Then all became runaways
and somehow washed up in Manson's Family.

331
00:21:10,853 --> 00:21:13,522
With the exception of Brunner,
the very first Family member,

332
00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:16,776
their transformation to murderers
took less than two years.

333
00:21:16,859 --> 00:21:19,111
Mary Brunner wasn't involved
in the Tate/LaBianca murders.

334
00:21:19,695 --> 00:21:23,449
That's correct.
She was arrested with Bobby Beausoleil

335
00:21:23,532 --> 00:21:26,202
just two days before Tate/LaBianca.

336
00:21:26,911 --> 00:21:29,413
The pair killed a music producer
over a bad drug deal,

337
00:21:29,497 --> 00:21:31,457
but what's really of interest
is the scene.

338
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,544
Brunner and Beausoleil tried to pin
their murder on the Black Panthers

339
00:21:35,628 --> 00:21:39,965
by writing "political piggy"
on the wall in the victim's blood.

340
00:21:42,927 --> 00:21:44,345
Now here's the LaBianca scene.

341
00:21:45,262 --> 00:21:46,263
"Death to pigs."

342
00:21:47,807 --> 00:21:49,892
And the scene at Cielo Drive...

343
00:21:50,518 --> 00:21:52,895
"Pig" in Sharon Tate's blood.

344
00:21:53,729 --> 00:21:54,939
Helter Skelter.

345
00:21:55,022 --> 00:21:56,565
It was Manson's theme.

346
00:21:57,107 --> 00:21:58,317
The prosecution's case

347
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,445
rested on his desire
to incite a race war as motive

348
00:22:01,529 --> 00:22:03,239
and his control over the Family as means.

349
00:22:03,322 --> 00:22:04,698
Ever heard of Krishna Venta?

350
00:22:05,241 --> 00:22:07,743
- No.
- Ex-con who declared himself a messiah.

351
00:22:08,202 --> 00:22:09,620
He founded his own church,

352
00:22:09,703 --> 00:22:11,872
preaching society was corrupt and doomed.

353
00:22:13,290 --> 00:22:14,708
He said there was a race war coming.

354
00:22:15,751 --> 00:22:17,753
Krishna said he knew a secret place
in the desert

355
00:22:17,837 --> 00:22:19,839
where he
and his flock could wait it all out.

356
00:22:19,922 --> 00:22:21,674
Then, when the war was over,

357
00:22:22,508 --> 00:22:24,844
they'd emerge
and create a new civilization.

358
00:22:24,927 --> 00:22:27,471
- That's right out of Manson's playbook.
- Krishna's playbook.

359
00:22:28,973 --> 00:22:30,975
Manson stayed at his church in '68.

360
00:22:31,767 --> 00:22:34,186
He said, "It's like the spirit
of everything brought me there."

361
00:22:34,854 --> 00:22:37,189
Later,
he espoused exactly the same doctrine,

362
00:22:37,273 --> 00:22:38,649
calling it "Helter Skelter."

363
00:22:38,732 --> 00:22:40,985
Helter Skelter wasn't even Manson's idea?

364
00:22:41,068 --> 00:22:42,278
As borrowed as the name.

365
00:22:42,361 --> 00:22:43,612
He's a fraud.

366
00:22:43,696 --> 00:22:45,447
Still, the question remains,

367
00:22:45,531 --> 00:22:47,074
how does a guy like that...

368
00:22:48,158 --> 00:22:49,451
get kids like that...

369
00:22:51,620 --> 00:22:52,538
to do that?

370
00:23:04,258 --> 00:23:07,761
Have you noticed any changes
in his behavior, self-soothing?

371
00:23:08,262 --> 00:23:09,138
Not at all.

372
00:23:27,031 --> 00:23:29,199
- Do you read to him, Mrs. Tench?
- Mm-hmm.

373
00:23:30,075 --> 00:23:31,869
He likes<i> Clifford the Big Red Dog.</i>

374
00:23:35,623 --> 00:23:36,999
Sports, Mr. Tench?

375
00:23:37,625 --> 00:23:38,709
He rides his bike.

376
00:23:39,209 --> 00:23:42,129
- Almost off training wheels.
- But no team sports.

377
00:23:42,588 --> 00:23:43,422
No.

378
00:23:57,645 --> 00:23:59,396
What does he do when he's upset?

379
00:23:59,939 --> 00:24:01,482
He's not a big talker, but...

380
00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:04,151
he always comes to us
if he needs anything.

381
00:24:12,701 --> 00:24:14,370
And he attends the public school?

382
00:24:14,453 --> 00:24:15,287
Yes.

383
00:24:15,996 --> 00:24:18,999
Which has no special education department?

384
00:24:19,083 --> 00:24:20,501
- No.
- No, we've never felt

385
00:24:20,584 --> 00:24:22,086
he needed that kind of...

386
00:24:22,169 --> 00:24:23,420
Brian's just shy.

387
00:24:25,005 --> 00:24:25,839
I see.

388
00:24:29,635 --> 00:24:30,970
How do you handle bad behavior?

389
00:24:31,637 --> 00:24:33,013
Nothing extraordinary.

390
00:24:33,097 --> 00:24:34,974
Sent to his room, the usual thing.

391
00:24:40,145 --> 00:24:41,146
Corporal punishment?

392
00:24:41,522 --> 00:24:42,564
- Never.
- No.

393
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,833
- Do you have a weapon in the house?
- I keep my gun in my office.

394
00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:01,917
And you keep it locked?

395
00:25:02,001 --> 00:25:03,002
At all times.

396
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:07,464
Brian!

397
00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:13,929
Brian, come here.

398
00:25:16,223 --> 00:25:17,099
Hm.

399
00:25:18,934 --> 00:25:20,853
This is Miss Leland.

400
00:25:21,270 --> 00:25:22,521
Ms. Leland.

401
00:25:24,523 --> 00:25:25,524
Hi, Brian.

402
00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:32,573
Bri, why don't you go inside
and read some<i> Clifford?</i>

403
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,241
I'll be right in.

404
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:36,827
Go on.

405
00:25:46,545 --> 00:25:47,463
Does he avoid you?

406
00:25:48,464 --> 00:25:49,882
He's had a tough few weeks.

407
00:25:49,965 --> 00:25:52,217
Ms. Leland, we love Brian.

408
00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:55,471
He may be adopted, but he's our baby.

409
00:25:55,554 --> 00:25:57,306
Of course he is, Mrs. Tench.

410
00:25:59,892 --> 00:26:02,478
At our next appointment,
I'll need the birth certificate,

411
00:26:02,561 --> 00:26:05,898
his medical records,
and all school reports.

412
00:26:07,316 --> 00:26:09,860
These explain the process.

413
00:26:11,987 --> 00:26:13,822
Basic child safety guidelines.

414
00:26:14,323 --> 00:26:16,909
I'll be stopping by periodically,
unannounced, to observe.

415
00:26:16,992 --> 00:26:20,788
We need to establish a baseline
for how he behaves in this environment

416
00:26:20,871 --> 00:26:22,289
to evaluate his progress.

417
00:26:22,372 --> 00:26:24,833
Then we can determine
whether adjustments need to be made.

418
00:26:24,917 --> 00:26:26,627
What kind of adjustments?

419
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:28,212
We won't know until we've spent some time.

420
00:26:28,629 --> 00:26:31,048
Your appointments with Dr. Moritz
will be every Friday.

421
00:26:31,131 --> 00:26:32,674
You'll both need to attend.

422
00:26:34,510 --> 00:26:35,344
Of course.

423
00:26:35,427 --> 00:26:37,930
We'll submit regular reports
to the commonwealth attorney

424
00:26:38,013 --> 00:26:39,515
with our recommendations.

425
00:26:39,598 --> 00:26:42,935
Ultimately,
he'll make all decisions moving forward.

426
00:26:50,692 --> 00:26:51,568
We'll see you.

427
00:26:51,985 --> 00:26:53,445
Yes, you will.

428
00:26:57,699 --> 00:26:58,784
We do the exact same thing.

429
00:27:00,244 --> 00:27:01,411
What's that?

430
00:27:02,788 --> 00:27:03,997
Walk the crime scene.

431
00:27:08,127 --> 00:27:09,711
Don't get too comfortable
around her.

432
00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:12,131
She's not our friend.

433
00:27:34,611 --> 00:27:35,654
Hold it!

434
00:27:36,697 --> 00:27:37,739
- FBI.
- Thank you.

435
00:27:45,164 --> 00:27:46,748
You hoping for an autograph?

436
00:27:46,832 --> 00:27:47,875
It's research.

437
00:27:48,542 --> 00:27:51,003
Try not to moisten yourself
before you get inside.

438
00:28:10,439 --> 00:28:13,442
It's gonna be a bit of a wait.
He's refusing to come out of his cell.

439
00:28:14,318 --> 00:28:15,444
I'm stunned.

440
00:28:16,528 --> 00:28:18,405
- Any chance Kemper's available?
- I can check.

441
00:28:18,822 --> 00:28:20,365
No! Not Kemper.

442
00:28:20,449 --> 00:28:21,909
We came to see Manson.

443
00:28:21,992 --> 00:28:23,911
- We'll wait him out.
- Bill, I'll be fine.

444
00:28:25,829 --> 00:28:28,999
You need to ask Kemper about returning
to the scene of the crime, for BTK.

445
00:28:29,082 --> 00:28:30,542
We know he did that. He told us.

446
00:28:30,626 --> 00:28:31,877
But we need to know why.

447
00:28:33,045 --> 00:28:34,963
I will be fine.

448
00:28:40,510 --> 00:28:44,473
Besides, how's Manson gonna feel
when he finds out we're talking to Kemper?

449
00:28:45,474 --> 00:28:47,434
These guys are all jealous of each other.

450
00:28:47,517 --> 00:28:49,561
For the use of reason

451
00:28:49,645 --> 00:28:55,150
is to justify the obscure desires
that move our conduct,

452
00:28:55,901 --> 00:28:58,403
impulses, passions,

453
00:28:58,487 --> 00:29:00,948
prejudice, and follies.

454
00:29:05,535 --> 00:29:06,703
Gentlemen.

455
00:29:07,371 --> 00:29:08,664
What a surprise.

456
00:29:12,084 --> 00:29:13,835
- Bill.
- Ed.

457
00:29:14,962 --> 00:29:15,963
Holden.

458
00:29:17,547 --> 00:29:18,632
Good to see you, Ed.

459
00:29:19,424 --> 00:29:20,467
Have a seat.

460
00:29:24,263 --> 00:29:26,640
Do you know that Holden came to see me

461
00:29:27,808 --> 00:29:29,268
when I was in the hospital?

462
00:29:29,685 --> 00:29:30,769
I'm aware.

463
00:29:30,852 --> 00:29:32,562
It really meant a lot to me.

464
00:29:33,855 --> 00:29:35,899
That's what friends are for, right?

465
00:29:39,736 --> 00:29:41,738
So, Manson, huh?

466
00:29:41,947 --> 00:29:43,198
Word travels fast.

467
00:29:43,573 --> 00:29:45,951
Oh, it's hard to keep
something like that quiet.

468
00:29:46,034 --> 00:29:48,495
Everybody knows when Charlie takes a shit.

469
00:29:48,578 --> 00:29:51,290
And if you haven't heard,
he'll tell you all about it.

470
00:29:51,832 --> 00:29:53,875
Even if somebody else took the shit
for him.

471
00:29:53,959 --> 00:29:56,837
- Right.
- He's never done that.

472
00:29:57,587 --> 00:29:59,006
Doesn't know what it's like.

473
00:29:59,298 --> 00:30:01,174
You're saying
he's not worth our attention?

474
00:30:01,258 --> 00:30:04,261
The "mayhem" has been
copiously mythologized.

475
00:30:04,678 --> 00:30:07,347
If you really want to understand
how that all went down,

476
00:30:07,431 --> 00:30:08,640
you should talk to Tex.

477
00:30:09,057 --> 00:30:10,976
- The all-American pawn?
- Yeah.

478
00:30:11,643 --> 00:30:13,729
- I'm sure you're right, Bill.
- We'll keep that in mind.

479
00:30:13,812 --> 00:30:15,772
But we didn't come here
to talk about Manson.

480
00:30:15,856 --> 00:30:18,066
Oh.

481
00:30:19,901 --> 00:30:22,487
What did you want to talk about?

482
00:30:23,947 --> 00:30:25,324
You, Ed.

483
00:30:26,533 --> 00:30:29,161
I wanted to ask you
about something you said a while back.

484
00:30:29,244 --> 00:30:31,663
About revisiting
the sites of your victims.

485
00:30:32,164 --> 00:30:32,998
Mm-hmm?

486
00:30:33,749 --> 00:30:34,833
Why did you do that?

487
00:30:36,084 --> 00:30:39,046
Well, at the murder site,
I could relive the experience.

488
00:30:39,129 --> 00:30:40,630
Feel the same elation,

489
00:30:41,089 --> 00:30:42,716
the incredible release.

490
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:43,842
It excited you.

491
00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:45,552
Yes.

492
00:30:46,762 --> 00:30:49,473
I would also relive
the sexual gratification.

493
00:30:50,140 --> 00:30:52,100
What would make you decide to visit?

494
00:30:52,517 --> 00:30:56,396
The feeling of complete dominance,
total possession you get from a kill,

495
00:30:57,189 --> 00:30:58,440
becomes a need.

496
00:30:58,690 --> 00:31:01,568
That need builds
until it becomes a compulsion

497
00:31:01,651 --> 00:31:03,904
to a point that you have to hunt again.

498
00:31:04,696 --> 00:31:06,990
Sometimes, I could stave off that need

499
00:31:07,366 --> 00:31:09,326
by remembering the moment of the kill.

500
00:31:10,494 --> 00:31:13,413
You can really savor that
when you're in the exact spot.

501
00:31:13,497 --> 00:31:15,123
What if you can't make it to a site?

502
00:31:15,207 --> 00:31:16,500
Too many people around.

503
00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:21,004
I kept things. Little trinkets.
Reminders of my experience.

504
00:31:21,088 --> 00:31:21,963
The Polaroids.

505
00:31:22,047 --> 00:31:24,049
I could hold them. Possess them.

506
00:31:24,591 --> 00:31:25,675
They were souvenirs.

507
00:31:25,967 --> 00:31:27,594
Was there a specific amount of time,

508
00:31:27,677 --> 00:31:31,306
something you could measure,
when the "souvenirs" weren't enough?

509
00:31:34,643 --> 00:31:36,520
Have you got somebody, Holden?

510
00:31:38,855 --> 00:31:40,065
Someone you can't catch?

511
00:31:43,276 --> 00:31:44,319
Is that right, Bill?

512
00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:47,614
Who is it? The East Area Rapist?
The San Mateo Slasher?

513
00:31:47,989 --> 00:31:50,075
I-45 Killer down in Texas?

514
00:31:53,036 --> 00:31:55,956
You've found somebody
who hasn't made the news yet.

515
00:31:57,416 --> 00:31:58,625
Just startin' out.

516
00:31:58,708 --> 00:32:00,794
Would you have any thoughts
on someone like that?

517
00:32:01,461 --> 00:32:02,504
Of course.

518
00:32:03,964 --> 00:32:06,716
But I'd have to be acquainted
with the pertinent facts.

519
00:32:07,634 --> 00:32:10,554
We can't discuss ongoing investigations,
Ed.

520
00:32:11,138 --> 00:32:12,097
With anyone.

521
00:32:12,556 --> 00:32:13,807
I'm sure you understand.

522
00:32:14,224 --> 00:32:15,183
Of course, Bill.

523
00:32:21,231 --> 00:32:23,150
It's a taxing lifestyle.

524
00:32:23,817 --> 00:32:26,611
A lot of factors that go into success.

525
00:32:27,237 --> 00:32:28,613
As I got better,

526
00:32:29,322 --> 00:32:32,951
I was very careful
that all conditions were exactly right.

527
00:32:36,788 --> 00:32:41,084
This person you're after,
he has an overwhelming fantasy life.

528
00:32:42,294 --> 00:32:45,755
Fantasies of what he's done,
what he wants to do,

529
00:32:46,756 --> 00:32:48,425
how he's going to improve.

530
00:32:50,552 --> 00:32:52,387
These dreams will consume him.

531
00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:55,140
Soon, the real world won't even compare.

532
00:32:57,142 --> 00:32:58,560
How do we catch a fantasy, Ed?

533
00:32:59,769 --> 00:33:01,480
You can't. If he's any good,

534
00:33:02,439 --> 00:33:03,440
you'll never see it.

535
00:33:03,523 --> 00:33:06,860
He'll live like any other person,
have relationships, hold down a job.

536
00:33:06,943 --> 00:33:09,488
We know killers don't have the tools
to manage real life.

537
00:33:09,863 --> 00:33:11,573
They come from marginalized backgrounds,

538
00:33:11,656 --> 00:33:14,367
they break under the pressure
of what they've done. They make mistakes.

539
00:33:16,411 --> 00:33:18,955
It seems to me
everything you know about serial killers

540
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:21,416
has been gleaned
from the ones who've been caught.

541
00:33:26,505 --> 00:33:27,339
He's ready.

542
00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:30,759
Sorry, Ed.

543
00:33:31,218 --> 00:33:33,929
That's all right, Bill.

544
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,682
Did you save enough tape
for the charlatan?

545
00:33:37,766 --> 00:33:38,934
I brought extra.

546
00:33:39,017 --> 00:33:40,435
You'll need it. He's a talker.

547
00:33:42,145 --> 00:33:43,563
I'm still trying to write my book.

548
00:33:43,647 --> 00:33:45,857
I just need access to a typewriter.

549
00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:48,527
- Yeah, we'll see what we can do.
- Thank you, Bill.

550
00:33:48,610 --> 00:33:49,694
See you around.

551
00:33:51,404 --> 00:33:52,405
One more thing.

552
00:33:53,615 --> 00:33:55,408
Manson is really small.

553
00:33:56,326 --> 00:33:57,744
Like, really small.

554
00:33:58,578 --> 00:33:59,663
Try not to stare.

555
00:34:07,128 --> 00:34:08,421
Suck my dick!

556
00:34:11,925 --> 00:34:13,426
That's my bitch!

557
00:34:16,930 --> 00:34:18,098
Fuck you, man!

558
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:20,684
Fuck you!

559
00:34:24,396 --> 00:34:26,481
Fuck you! Fuck you!

560
00:34:45,041 --> 00:34:46,793
Do you think we should talk to Tex?

561
00:34:47,294 --> 00:34:49,462
You realize Kemper keeps reeling you in?

562
00:34:49,546 --> 00:34:52,090
He's the most cogent,
credible subject we've ever interviewed.

563
00:34:52,173 --> 00:34:53,008
The bar is low.

564
00:34:53,091 --> 00:34:54,301
If Kemper hadn't turned himself in,

565
00:34:54,384 --> 00:34:56,136
he could've avoided capture
for as long as he wanted.

566
00:34:56,219 --> 00:34:57,554
He's an incredible resource.

567
00:34:58,179 --> 00:34:59,431
You bought a new microphone.

568
00:35:01,558 --> 00:35:02,559
For posterity.

569
00:35:13,111 --> 00:35:15,322
Like a fucking king.

570
00:35:21,494 --> 00:35:22,746
Uncuff him, please.

571
00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:34,507
All of them.

572
00:35:36,176 --> 00:35:37,594
I'm Special Agent Tench.

573
00:35:38,011 --> 00:35:39,429
This is Special Agent Ford.

574
00:35:40,096 --> 00:35:42,432
This isn't an interrogation, Mr. Manson.

575
00:35:42,515 --> 00:35:45,352
We know that you didn't commit the Tate
or LaBianca murders.

576
00:35:45,810 --> 00:35:48,605
What we're interested in
is your relationship with your Family.

577
00:35:48,688 --> 00:35:51,107
And what bearing that relationship had
on the crimes.

578
00:35:51,733 --> 00:35:52,567
Please.

579
00:35:59,324 --> 00:36:01,034
We'd like to hear from you,

580
00:36:01,117 --> 00:36:03,203
in your own words, about what happened.

581
00:36:20,345 --> 00:36:21,888
Do you mind if we record this?

582
00:36:28,103 --> 00:36:30,313
Over the years,
some members have blamed you

583
00:36:30,397 --> 00:36:31,231
for the murders,

584
00:36:31,731 --> 00:36:33,108
then changed their story.

585
00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:36,361
Others, quite famously,
have protected you.

586
00:36:36,778 --> 00:36:39,197
You seem to have a hold on them
even from prison.

587
00:36:40,031 --> 00:36:41,491
But no matter what they say,

588
00:36:41,825 --> 00:36:43,368
you maintain the same story.

589
00:36:43,868 --> 00:36:45,704
Because my truth is simple.

590
00:36:46,287 --> 00:36:49,040
- And your truth's complicated.
- Complicated how?

591
00:36:49,249 --> 00:36:51,960
Well, you don't see it,
but the only truth is now.

592
00:36:52,293 --> 00:36:54,546
Now is the only thing that's real.

593
00:36:54,629 --> 00:36:57,090
Well, we're mainly interested in then.

594
00:36:57,173 --> 00:36:58,883
How you met, influenced,

595
00:36:58,967 --> 00:37:00,802
and indoctrinated the people
who followed you.

596
00:37:00,885 --> 00:37:02,470
Indoctrinated? Come on, man.

597
00:37:03,555 --> 00:37:04,848
How did the Family begin?

598
00:37:05,140 --> 00:37:06,266
Did you start with the girls?

599
00:37:06,349 --> 00:37:07,851
These people you call the "Family,"

600
00:37:07,934 --> 00:37:09,811
they're just children
that you didn't want.

601
00:37:09,894 --> 00:37:11,563
You threw 'em out like trash.

602
00:37:11,646 --> 00:37:14,274
So I picked them up
off the side of the road, and I said this:

603
00:37:14,774 --> 00:37:16,735
in love, there is no wrong.

604
00:37:16,818 --> 00:37:18,945
Love? That's what you taught your Family?

605
00:37:21,114 --> 00:37:22,866
You're a family man, Agent Tench?

606
00:37:24,826 --> 00:37:25,869
- Yeah.
- Yeah?

607
00:37:26,453 --> 00:37:29,414
Yeah, he's a family man, too,
with his keys and his gun.

608
00:37:29,831 --> 00:37:31,875
He's teaching his children right now.

609
00:37:31,958 --> 00:37:34,711
They're learning his beliefs,
and they'll be living 'em.

610
00:37:34,794 --> 00:37:37,505
And you, you're teaching your children.

611
00:37:37,964 --> 00:37:41,050
Look at yourself,
judge the lies you live in.

612
00:37:41,468 --> 00:37:43,344
These children
that come at you with knives,

613
00:37:43,428 --> 00:37:44,596
they're your children.

614
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:47,015
They were your followers, Charlie.
You gave them the knife.

615
00:37:47,098 --> 00:37:49,392
You taught 'em!
I didn't teach 'em.

616
00:37:49,476 --> 00:37:51,186
I just tried to help 'em stand up.

617
00:37:51,269 --> 00:37:54,063
And they stood up, went out,
and killed seven innocent people.

618
00:37:54,147 --> 00:37:55,648
Oh, so now it's my fault?

619
00:37:56,024 --> 00:37:58,568
It's my fault
that your children do what they do?

620
00:37:59,319 --> 00:38:01,613
Your own children who you are neglecting?

621
00:38:01,696 --> 00:38:04,407
We know that no one in the Family acted
without your approval, Charlie.

622
00:38:04,491 --> 00:38:07,952
Well, if you know, you know.
You don't need to talk to me.

623
00:38:08,036 --> 00:38:10,205
It's yourself you need to talk to.

624
00:38:16,002 --> 00:38:18,046
Let's talk about August 9th, 1969.

625
00:38:18,129 --> 00:38:19,672
That is gone in the past.

626
00:38:19,756 --> 00:38:22,008
And when it is gone, it is gone, brother.

627
00:38:22,091 --> 00:38:25,553
That summer, you told the Family,
"Now is the time for Helter Skelter."

628
00:38:25,637 --> 00:38:28,389
That they needed to start a race war
by murdering wealthy white people...

629
00:38:28,473 --> 00:38:30,975
That's the district attorney's fantasy.
That's his fears.

630
00:38:31,059 --> 00:38:33,061
That's a reflection of his fears.

631
00:38:33,144 --> 00:38:35,230
So you're saying that this never happened?

632
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,023
Sure,
I'm saying that never happened!

633
00:38:37,106 --> 00:38:39,484
Bugliosi is a genius, man!

634
00:38:39,567 --> 00:38:43,321
He got everything a prosecutor
would want, except one thing: a case.

635
00:38:43,947 --> 00:38:44,948
He doesn't have a case!

636
00:38:45,448 --> 00:38:47,867
So he puts Linda Kasabian on the stand,

637
00:38:47,951 --> 00:38:50,829
and she tells a sad story
about how she has lied,

638
00:38:50,912 --> 00:38:52,288
and cheated, and...

639
00:38:52,372 --> 00:38:55,250
and done every dishonest thing
that she can think of.

640
00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:58,294
Oh, but it's okay,
she's telling the truth now.

641
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,383
She wouldn't have any ulterior motive,
like immunity for seven counts of murder.

642
00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:05,844
You're saying she lied?
All the witnesses lied?

643
00:39:05,927 --> 00:39:09,472
Each witness got up and testified
only what was best for them.

644
00:39:09,556 --> 00:39:11,641
They didn't testify what was best for me.

645
00:39:13,059 --> 00:39:15,562
Do you believe
this Helter Skelter bullshit?

646
00:39:15,645 --> 00:39:17,689
"Death to Pigs."
"Political Piggy."

647
00:39:18,147 --> 00:39:21,150
- Got to admit, it sounds like a vision.
- There's no vision.

648
00:39:21,901 --> 00:39:24,028
I might have had an opinion
about blacks and whites

649
00:39:24,112 --> 00:39:25,780
and the hassles they were havin'.

650
00:39:25,864 --> 00:39:28,157
But I don't recall saying anything
about starting a race war.

651
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:29,993
So how did that become the story?

652
00:39:30,076 --> 00:39:33,580
It was Sadie who started hearing messages
in the<i> White Album.</i>

653
00:39:33,872 --> 00:39:38,042
She gave the media the material
for any perversion they cared print.

654
00:39:38,126 --> 00:39:39,419
The DA grabbed Sadie's version,

655
00:39:39,502 --> 00:39:41,588
ran all the way
through the courtroom with it:

656
00:39:41,671 --> 00:39:44,632
"Charles Manson:
the most dangerous man alive."

657
00:39:45,174 --> 00:39:48,511
"Hippie cult leader
who programmed people to kill."

658
00:39:48,595 --> 00:39:52,432
In that book, he's got me so powerful,
a look from me stopped his watch!

659
00:39:53,182 --> 00:39:54,726
I'd lay there in my cell wondering,

660
00:39:54,809 --> 00:39:56,811
"Wow, am I really all they say?"

661
00:39:57,186 --> 00:39:59,272
I was halfway believing that shit myself.

662
00:39:59,939 --> 00:40:02,233
But I've been staring
at every clock I see.

663
00:40:02,317 --> 00:40:03,568
And you know what?

664
00:40:03,651 --> 00:40:05,820
As hard as I stare, the clock never stops.

665
00:40:05,904 --> 00:40:08,698
You had a group of teenagers isolated
in the desert.

666
00:40:08,781 --> 00:40:10,909
You gave 'em drugs,
you convinced 'em you were God,

667
00:40:10,992 --> 00:40:12,160
and you sent 'em out to kill.

668
00:40:12,243 --> 00:40:16,289
Listen man, Bobby Beausoleil was sitting
in jail for murder, you dig?

669
00:40:16,664 --> 00:40:18,249
Tex and Sadie came to me

670
00:40:18,333 --> 00:40:21,377
and said, "Let's do some copycat killings
to get him off."

671
00:40:21,669 --> 00:40:24,172
You're saying the murders, everything,

672
00:40:24,797 --> 00:40:26,591
was just to get Bobby Beausoleil
out of prison?

673
00:40:26,674 --> 00:40:30,511
Those kids were looking at me
with hard eyes.

674
00:40:31,179 --> 00:40:32,430
Yeah, your kids.

675
00:40:33,097 --> 00:40:35,516
Tex Watson, the all-American boy?

676
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,101
The pride of Copeville, Texas?

677
00:40:37,185 --> 00:40:39,479
I have better sense
than to disagree with him.

678
00:40:40,271 --> 00:40:41,564
So I said this:

679
00:40:41,648 --> 00:40:43,608
"You do what your love tells you to do.

680
00:40:43,691 --> 00:40:45,485
I'll do what my love tells me."

681
00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:48,655
Now whatever he did, that's up to him.
He'll have to explain it to you.

682
00:40:48,738 --> 00:40:49,948
Just to be clear,

683
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,534
this was <i>their </i>plan?
You weren't responsible...

684
00:40:53,618 --> 00:40:56,454
You got a circle
that a man lives inside of.

685
00:40:56,537 --> 00:41:00,249
He's responsible for his circle
and his circle only.

686
00:41:00,333 --> 00:41:02,502
Now, I don't recall saying anything about,

687
00:41:02,585 --> 00:41:05,338
"Go get a knife and kill anyone"
or anything.

688
00:41:05,421 --> 00:41:06,339
Bullshit.

689
00:41:07,632 --> 00:41:10,551
If I wanted,
I could kill you with your mic cord.

690
00:41:10,927 --> 00:41:12,095
With your pencil.

691
00:41:12,804 --> 00:41:15,223
But I wanna love myself,
so I'm not going to do that.

692
00:41:15,306 --> 00:41:17,350
No, you're gonna put it
in someone else's circle.

693
00:41:18,935 --> 00:41:20,395
Listen, man. Tex?

694
00:41:20,478 --> 00:41:23,982
It was hard to tell if he was at the end
of an old high or startin' a new one.

695
00:41:24,065 --> 00:41:26,067
Now, I went back
to the Cielo Drive house that night,

696
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:28,695
and sent one of the kids inside
to see if he'd really done it.

697
00:41:28,778 --> 00:41:29,779
Why didn't you go inside?

698
00:41:30,738 --> 00:41:33,282
It was a crime scene.
I'd have been in violation of my parole.

699
00:41:34,951 --> 00:41:37,912
But you were at the LaBianca murders,
weren't you, Charlie?

700
00:41:37,996 --> 00:41:39,706
I had to go. I had to go.

701
00:41:40,665 --> 00:41:42,834
- You had to?
- Yeah. Listen, Tex,

702
00:41:42,917 --> 00:41:44,627
he put himself on me, man.

703
00:41:44,711 --> 00:41:46,212
He tried to make me look weak.

704
00:41:46,713 --> 00:41:49,048
We were moving forward inside ourselves.

705
00:41:49,132 --> 00:41:51,759
We were learnin' new things.
And he changed it.

706
00:41:51,843 --> 00:41:54,095
See, he went outside.
He made his own circle.

707
00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:57,849
And, what, now he wants to go back
to "Jesus loves me"?

708
00:41:58,266 --> 00:41:59,350
Blood of the lamb,

709
00:41:59,434 --> 00:42:02,478
the right/wrong games we played
for 2,000 years?

710
00:42:02,562 --> 00:42:03,980
Right and wrong is a game?

711
00:42:04,063 --> 00:42:07,108
There are no rights and wrongs, only ises.

712
00:42:07,608 --> 00:42:09,110
Whatever life is, it is.

713
00:42:09,193 --> 00:42:11,154
Right and wrong got nothing to do with it.

714
00:42:11,237 --> 00:42:13,448
So the murder of seven people just "is"?

715
00:42:15,074 --> 00:42:18,411
Well, it is, isn't it?

716
00:42:19,287 --> 00:42:21,539
No one ever dies, no one ever lives.

717
00:42:21,622 --> 00:42:23,708
Those are two words in a leftover game.

718
00:42:23,791 --> 00:42:25,501
People did die, Charlie.
You made sure of it.

719
00:42:25,585 --> 00:42:27,003
Everything is love, man.

720
00:42:27,086 --> 00:42:28,588
There's nothing that isn't love.

721
00:42:28,671 --> 00:42:29,505
Really?

722
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:30,465
Nothin'?

723
00:42:31,257 --> 00:42:32,842
How much more of this shit
do you wanna listen to?

724
00:42:32,925 --> 00:42:35,803
You need to walk
on a different street, guy.

725
00:42:35,887 --> 00:42:38,347
Put your clothes on backwards,
and let everyone laugh at you.

726
00:42:38,431 --> 00:42:39,557
You're a coward, Charlie.

727
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,851
A coward who takes no responsibility
for his actions.

728
00:42:41,934 --> 00:42:44,353
Yeah, you eat meat with your teeth,

729
00:42:44,437 --> 00:42:46,439
you kill things that are better than you,

730
00:42:46,522 --> 00:42:48,274
and then you say
your children are killers.

731
00:42:48,357 --> 00:42:49,525
No, I'm saying <i>you're </i>a killer.

732
00:42:49,609 --> 00:42:52,195
- I have killed no one...
- You ordered them to go to that house

733
00:42:52,278 --> 00:42:54,739
- and slaughter everyone there.
- ...and I wanted no one to be killed.

734
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:59,911
I did not direct anyone to do anything
other than what they wanted to do.

735
00:42:59,994 --> 00:43:01,162
You didn't stop them either.

736
00:43:01,245 --> 00:43:04,582
I always let children go.
If he falls, that is how he learns.

737
00:43:04,665 --> 00:43:06,125
You become strong by fallin'.

738
00:43:06,209 --> 00:43:08,961
You're not supposed to let children fall.
You're supposed to guide them.

739
00:43:09,045 --> 00:43:10,797
Guide them into what?

740
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,799
Guide them
into what you've guided them into?

741
00:43:12,882 --> 00:43:14,842
- You fucking midget!
- Bill!

742
00:43:20,056 --> 00:43:21,724
This anger that you're feeling,
Agent Tench,

743
00:43:21,808 --> 00:43:23,893
this is just the anger
that you have got for you.

744
00:43:24,477 --> 00:43:26,145
Find someone else to put yourself on.

745
00:43:26,229 --> 00:43:30,149
I'm tired of being your goat.
I'm tired of being your reflection.

746
00:43:30,233 --> 00:43:32,860
- You're not <i>my </i>reflection.
- I've always been yours.

747
00:43:32,944 --> 00:43:35,196
I've been in your cell
since I was eight years old.

748
00:43:35,279 --> 00:43:36,489
I don't even have a name.

749
00:43:36,572 --> 00:43:38,783
I'm B-33920.

750
00:43:38,866 --> 00:43:40,326
A bell rings, I get up!

751
00:43:40,993 --> 00:43:42,995
A bell rings, I go out!

752
00:43:43,079 --> 00:43:45,998
A bell rings, I do what that bell says.

753
00:43:46,082 --> 00:43:47,708
I'm Pavlov's dog, man.

754
00:43:47,792 --> 00:43:49,544
I'm anything you want me to be.

755
00:43:51,921 --> 00:43:54,006
But what you want is a fiend...

756
00:43:54,715 --> 00:43:56,300
because that's what you are.

757
00:43:56,884 --> 00:43:59,262
See, I never had any say in your world,

758
00:43:59,345 --> 00:44:00,721
you created it.

759
00:44:02,223 --> 00:44:04,600
How do you feel about those murders?

760
00:44:04,684 --> 00:44:05,852
That's what counts.

761
00:44:06,352 --> 00:44:09,105
Happened in your world, not in mine.

762
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,900
What "counts" is that you ordered
the deaths of seven people.

763
00:44:12,984 --> 00:44:15,236
Eight if you "count" an unborn baby.

764
00:44:15,319 --> 00:44:17,613
And now you can reflect it back on me,

765
00:44:17,697 --> 00:44:20,032
and you can lock me up
in your penitentiary,

766
00:44:20,116 --> 00:44:22,326
and you can say that your world's better.

767
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:24,954
But prison's a frame of thought.

768
00:44:25,663 --> 00:44:28,207
We're all our own prisons,
we are each our own wardens,

769
00:44:28,291 --> 00:44:29,792
we do our own time.

770
00:44:30,334 --> 00:44:32,086
Prison is in your mind.

771
00:44:32,670 --> 00:44:34,380
Can't you see I'm free?

772
00:44:34,463 --> 00:44:37,758
- You don't look so free to me, Charlie.
- You don't look free to me!

773
00:44:38,176 --> 00:44:41,429
You look like a composite
of what someone told you you are.

774
00:44:41,971 --> 00:44:45,391
You live for other peoples' opinion,
you got pain on your face,

775
00:44:45,474 --> 00:44:46,934
and you wonder if you look okay.

776
00:44:47,018 --> 00:44:48,477
- That's it.
- Bill.

777
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:52,481
Hey, man.

778
00:44:52,565 --> 00:44:54,317
I like your sunglasses.

779
00:44:55,026 --> 00:44:56,068
Can I have 'em?

780
00:45:06,287 --> 00:45:07,955
Thank you kindly.

781
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:12,668
The guru of Munchkinland can fuck off
straight to hell as far as I'm concerned.

782
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,003
Agent Ford!

783
00:45:22,261 --> 00:45:24,180
Manson said he lifted these from you.

784
00:45:24,764 --> 00:45:27,308
- He said he stole them?
- He was braggin' about it.

785
00:45:27,391 --> 00:45:28,559
He's on his way to the hole.

786
00:45:33,314 --> 00:45:34,607
<i>It's such bullshit.</i>

787
00:45:35,608 --> 00:45:36,901
What makes more sense?

788
00:45:37,652 --> 00:45:40,947
Manson being forced to go along
with Tex and Sadie's copycat crime,

789
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:43,199
or a race war predicted by the Beatles?

790
00:45:43,282 --> 00:45:44,575
You're saying the DA lied?

791
00:45:47,370 --> 00:45:48,704
I'm saying he gave it a narrative.

792
00:45:49,872 --> 00:45:52,875
He had to explain
to a normal, middle-class jury

793
00:45:52,959 --> 00:45:56,462
how some normal, middle-class kids
brutally murdered seven people.

794
00:45:56,796 --> 00:45:57,630
Jesus, Holden.

795
00:46:00,258 --> 00:46:01,425
Watson's an hour away.

796
00:46:01,634 --> 00:46:03,261
Let's just spend the night
and talk to him.

797
00:46:03,344 --> 00:46:04,345
I have to get home.

798
00:46:06,222 --> 00:46:08,975
- You can't spend one more day?
- No, I can't.

799
00:46:09,392 --> 00:46:11,519
And after Atlanta, we can't fuck up again.

800
00:46:16,649 --> 00:46:19,986
If you stay and do this interview,
I need to know,

801
00:46:20,528 --> 00:46:21,362
can I trust you?

802
00:46:23,281 --> 00:46:24,115
Absolutely.

803
00:46:25,533 --> 00:46:28,619
Just go in, do the interview,
come home. Got it?

804
00:46:28,953 --> 00:46:29,829
I promise.

805
00:46:31,706 --> 00:46:32,623
Thanks, Bill.

806
00:46:33,165 --> 00:46:36,836
Fuck. What time have you got?

807
00:46:38,296 --> 00:46:39,505
5:16.

808
00:46:39,588 --> 00:46:41,924
Something wrong with your watch?

809
00:46:57,648 --> 00:46:58,566
Excuse me!

810
00:46:59,066 --> 00:47:01,402
FBI.
Is there any way you could hold the plane?

811
00:47:01,485 --> 00:47:02,820
I'm sorry, sir. It's gone.

812
00:47:02,987 --> 00:47:05,156
Is there a red-eye?

813
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,450
10:00 pm. Arrives in Washington at 6:30.

814
00:47:09,410 --> 00:47:10,328
Thanks.

815
00:47:32,016 --> 00:47:33,934
I apologize.

816
00:47:34,018 --> 00:47:37,480
I can catch him up on things
if you... wanna start.

817
00:47:37,563 --> 00:47:40,107
The appointment is
for the benefit of both parents.

818
00:47:43,778 --> 00:47:44,612
I'm sorry.

819
00:47:47,615 --> 00:47:48,866
So sorry I'm late.

820
00:47:49,784 --> 00:47:50,993
Of course. It happens.

821
00:47:51,702 --> 00:47:55,456
I just, uh, would be careful being late
to appointments with Ms. Leland

822
00:47:55,539 --> 00:47:56,499
or the CA's office.

823
00:47:56,916 --> 00:47:59,543
What we're trying to do here is avoid
as many red flags as we can.

824
00:47:59,627 --> 00:48:00,461
Absolutely.

825
00:48:01,295 --> 00:48:02,296
I'm here to help you both,

826
00:48:02,922 --> 00:48:06,634
and Brian, of course,
get through this as easily as possible.

827
00:48:07,385 --> 00:48:08,219
Thank you.

828
00:48:08,302 --> 00:48:11,180
Now, the goal of our sessions
will be to glean Brian's understanding

829
00:48:11,263 --> 00:48:13,224
of the event, his intentions...

830
00:48:13,307 --> 00:48:15,810
He didn't mean
to do anything to that little boy.

831
00:48:16,685 --> 00:48:17,853
He thought by making a cross...

832
00:48:17,937 --> 00:48:20,815
Mrs. Tench, I...
I'm going to need to hear that from Brian.

833
00:48:20,898 --> 00:48:22,608
Well,
I think I understand my child.

834
00:48:23,025 --> 00:48:24,819
Your knowledge
of Brian's behaviors

835
00:48:24,902 --> 00:48:26,028
is going to be essential.

836
00:48:26,112 --> 00:48:28,280
But we have to complete
the process methodically.

837
00:48:29,156 --> 00:48:30,157
We understand.

838
00:48:32,493 --> 00:48:34,495
Uh, let's start with homelife.

839
00:48:34,578 --> 00:48:37,998
I see, from Ms. Leland, that your work
with the bureau involves some travel.

840
00:48:38,082 --> 00:48:39,959
Your wife tells me
you teach "road school"?

841
00:48:40,042 --> 00:48:41,877
He's home most of the time now.

842
00:48:44,338 --> 00:48:46,215
Why exactly were you late, Mr. Tench?

843
00:48:46,632 --> 00:48:49,051
I work in Behavioral Sciences for the FBI.

844
00:48:50,428 --> 00:48:53,722
- I don't know what that means.
- My unit develops procedures

845
00:48:53,806 --> 00:48:55,015
for identifying criminals

846
00:48:55,099 --> 00:48:57,101
by their psychological fingerprint.

847
00:48:57,184 --> 00:48:58,477
And how do you do that?

848
00:48:59,645 --> 00:49:02,148
We conduct interviews
with convicted felons,

849
00:49:02,231 --> 00:49:03,983
try to codify their behavior,

850
00:49:04,275 --> 00:49:06,444
gain insight into their mental states.

851
00:49:06,527 --> 00:49:08,237
What types of criminals do you deal with?

852
00:49:08,696 --> 00:49:10,990
I study multiple murderers.

853
00:49:18,789 --> 00:49:22,042
And were you interviewing
an actual murderer this morning?

854
00:49:23,043 --> 00:49:25,129
I was late because I was in California

855
00:49:25,421 --> 00:49:27,047
interviewing Charles Manson.

856
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,675
Manson?

857
00:49:30,718 --> 00:49:31,635
Yes, sir.

858
00:49:33,512 --> 00:49:35,973
Wait. You spoke directly
with Charles Manson?

859
00:49:37,183 --> 00:49:39,768
Wow. He is quite the character, isn't he?

860
00:49:40,186 --> 00:49:41,312
You ain't kiddin'.

861
00:49:41,395 --> 00:49:45,399
Yeah, I... I must admit, I'm very intrigued
by what that conversation was like.

862
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:47,443
Could you share any tidbits?

863
00:49:49,111 --> 00:49:50,070
Sure.

864
00:49:52,781 --> 00:49:54,074
Now that I've been
in here a while,

865
00:49:54,158 --> 00:49:56,160
I understand Charlie a whole lot better.

866
00:49:56,535 --> 00:49:57,453
How so?

867
00:49:58,162 --> 00:49:59,330
It's survival.

868
00:49:59,914 --> 00:50:04,043
Charlie's not a tough guy,
so he created a prophet persona.

869
00:50:04,126 --> 00:50:05,753
A false prophet, for sure.

870
00:50:06,378 --> 00:50:09,673
Nothing he ever said came true
except for the things we did.

871
00:50:11,300 --> 00:50:14,386
But he could convince you of things
you never thought possible.

872
00:50:14,970 --> 00:50:18,682
We didn't know if he was Jesus
or the Devil, but...

873
00:50:19,433 --> 00:50:21,519
either was better
than facing the world alone.

874
00:50:21,602 --> 00:50:24,813
But you didn't grow up alone.
You said you had a loving family.

875
00:50:24,897 --> 00:50:28,317
You must have developed a moral compass
before you ever met Charlie.

876
00:50:29,318 --> 00:50:33,113
Let's just say Charlie had a way
of making you think things were your idea.

877
00:50:34,198 --> 00:50:37,910
He'd start small,
like, he'd gather us in a circle,

878
00:50:37,993 --> 00:50:40,204
and he'd put a chair in the middle,

879
00:50:40,287 --> 00:50:44,291
and he would tell us to imagine
there was a person in that chair

880
00:50:44,375 --> 00:50:46,168
and that we had to scare them to death.

881
00:50:47,086 --> 00:50:48,921
Staring at 'em. Screaming at 'em.

882
00:50:49,004 --> 00:50:50,130
An empty chair?

883
00:50:50,506 --> 00:50:53,342
But in our minds, they were sirens
of the apocalypse sittin' there.

884
00:50:53,801 --> 00:50:56,387
Charlie would talk about things
we might do to them.

885
00:50:57,304 --> 00:50:59,848
Like, break into their houses,

886
00:50:59,932 --> 00:51:02,851
tie them up, kill their families.

887
00:51:03,561 --> 00:51:06,939
Those ideas, they were only ours
because they were his first.

888
00:51:07,314 --> 00:51:10,568
Once we incorporated them,
he'd send us out creepy-crawling.

889
00:51:10,651 --> 00:51:13,696
- Sorry. What is creepy-crawling?
- It's what Charlie called it,

890
00:51:13,779 --> 00:51:15,823
sneakin' into people's houses,

891
00:51:15,906 --> 00:51:17,658
movin' furniture around.

892
00:51:18,075 --> 00:51:21,787
He said it would help us face our fears,
go beyond them.

893
00:51:21,870 --> 00:51:25,082
But Charlie was giving us so many drugs,
we didn't know what fear was.

894
00:51:25,165 --> 00:51:26,041
He gave them to you?

895
00:51:26,417 --> 00:51:30,004
Belladonna, Orange Sunshine, STP.

896
00:51:30,337 --> 00:51:32,590
By the time
Charlie said Helter Skelter was coming,

897
00:51:32,673 --> 00:51:36,051
- we were doin' really heavy stuff.
- Charlie talked about Helter Skelter?

898
00:51:36,135 --> 00:51:37,136
All the time.

899
00:51:37,219 --> 00:51:40,389
He told us Helter Skelter was concocted
by the district attorney.

900
00:51:40,931 --> 00:51:44,226
From the moment I met him,
Charlie was talkin' about a race war.

901
00:51:44,810 --> 00:51:47,605
We lived every day
thinking the world was about to end.

902
00:51:48,105 --> 00:51:49,523
There is freedom in that.

903
00:51:50,024 --> 00:51:52,568
If there's no tomorrow,
there's no consequences.

904
00:51:53,777 --> 00:51:56,447
Does it matter what you do
on your last day on earth?

905
00:51:57,072 --> 00:51:59,241
What crimes might you commit, Agent Ford?

906
00:51:59,325 --> 00:52:01,952
I'd like to think
I'd still know right from wrong.

907
00:52:02,036 --> 00:52:03,579
By then, there was no wrong.

908
00:52:03,662 --> 00:52:05,748
I had no conscience.
That had been taken from me.

909
00:52:05,831 --> 00:52:06,749
By Charlie?

910
00:52:08,667 --> 00:52:10,711
Charlie said you
and Sadie came up with the murders

911
00:52:10,794 --> 00:52:13,339
as a way of getting Bobby Beausoleil
out of prison.

912
00:52:14,131 --> 00:52:16,842
You have to understand, we were all one.

913
00:52:16,925 --> 00:52:18,177
We were part of the all.

914
00:52:18,260 --> 00:52:20,095
We thought the same thoughts.

915
00:52:20,638 --> 00:52:21,472
Charlie kept saying

916
00:52:21,555 --> 00:52:23,849
that if blackie didn't start
Helter Skelter soon,

917
00:52:23,932 --> 00:52:25,476
then we'd have to show 'em how.

918
00:52:26,435 --> 00:52:28,729
He chose Cielo Drive
because he'd been there before.

919
00:52:28,812 --> 00:52:31,857
- So that was his idea.
- They were all his ideas.

920
00:52:31,940 --> 00:52:33,317
But he didn't go with you.

921
00:52:33,901 --> 00:52:36,153
Charlie wasn't about
getting his hands dirty.

922
00:52:36,236 --> 00:52:37,446
He did go to the house.

923
00:52:37,529 --> 00:52:39,531
Only after it was all over.

924
00:52:42,326 --> 00:52:45,621
Did Charlie give you or the girls
any specific orders?

925
00:52:46,705 --> 00:52:47,956
He told me to kill everyone.

926
00:52:48,457 --> 00:52:51,210
He said, "Make it as gruesome as you can."

927
00:52:51,293 --> 00:52:52,753
Told me, "Kill 'em all."

928
00:52:53,545 --> 00:52:55,339
And you did.

929
00:52:55,798 --> 00:52:57,675
Yes, sir.

930
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:06,266
I remember... being in the car.

931
00:53:07,768 --> 00:53:11,438
I had so many drugs in my system,
my mind kept phasing in and out.

932
00:53:12,189 --> 00:53:14,733
I was lyin' with my head in Sadie's lap.

933
00:53:17,111 --> 00:53:20,572
She shook me
and told me to cut the phone lines.

934
00:53:21,448 --> 00:53:24,785
Next thing I remember,
we were walkin' up the drive.

935
00:53:25,369 --> 00:53:29,081
There were headlights,
and Sadie hollered, "Get him."

936
00:53:30,082 --> 00:53:30,916
I looked down,

937
00:53:31,417 --> 00:53:32,668
I had a gun in my hand,

938
00:53:32,751 --> 00:53:34,002
so I stuck it in the window

939
00:53:34,086 --> 00:53:35,295
and I pulled the trigger.

940
00:53:35,379 --> 00:53:37,673
There was no thought. No feeling at all.

941
00:53:37,756 --> 00:53:39,633
Eighteen-year-old Steven Parent.

942
00:53:40,426 --> 00:53:42,761
That was the first true sin of my life.

943
00:53:44,012 --> 00:53:45,222
But I've repented of it.

944
00:53:45,305 --> 00:53:48,350
God's grace has blessed my soul
with the peace of his forgiveness.

945
00:53:48,434 --> 00:53:50,144
You said you felt nothing?

946
00:53:50,811 --> 00:53:52,563
Because death didn't matter to us.

947
00:53:54,565 --> 00:53:55,566
Okay.

948
00:53:59,528 --> 00:54:00,946
What happened in the house?

949
00:54:03,282 --> 00:54:05,659
I remember following Sadie inside.

950
00:54:07,661 --> 00:54:10,289
There was a man asleep on the couch,

951
00:54:11,206 --> 00:54:12,332
it was quiet.

952
00:54:14,418 --> 00:54:16,920
Then people started coming in
from other rooms.

953
00:54:17,004 --> 00:54:19,173
A man was comin' at me, yellin'.

954
00:54:19,256 --> 00:54:21,884
I... I had the gun, so I shot him.

955
00:54:23,385 --> 00:54:25,387
Everything just busted open.

956
00:54:25,471 --> 00:54:26,722
Women were screamin'.

957
00:54:26,805 --> 00:54:29,516
We were stabbin' people, runnin' around.

958
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,643
There was blood everywhere.

959
00:54:31,727 --> 00:54:33,228
Did you feel anything then?

960
00:54:33,312 --> 00:54:35,230
Sadie had to kick me to get me going.

961
00:54:35,314 --> 00:54:37,900
But you... got going.

962
00:54:38,776 --> 00:54:41,737
You have to remember,
those people, they were just shapes.

963
00:54:41,820 --> 00:54:43,238
They had no faces.

964
00:54:44,490 --> 00:54:46,366
Sadie was outside hollerin' for me.

965
00:54:46,450 --> 00:54:48,744
She had this woman pinned on the lawn...

966
00:54:48,827 --> 00:54:50,579
...so I stabbed her.

967
00:54:50,662 --> 00:54:55,083
You stabbed Abigail Folger...
28 times.

968
00:54:55,167 --> 00:54:56,877
Yeah.

969
00:54:57,753 --> 00:55:00,130
She was... practically dead
when I got there.

970
00:55:01,924 --> 00:55:04,718
Frykowski had 51 stab wounds.

971
00:55:05,177 --> 00:55:08,514
I remember the knife
going up and down, like, um...

972
00:55:08,597 --> 00:55:11,391
...a hammer in an engine block

973
00:55:11,475 --> 00:55:13,852
until my fist disappeared in the mess.

974
00:55:16,605 --> 00:55:17,439
And then?

975
00:55:18,106 --> 00:55:20,651
And then we went into the living room.

976
00:55:23,195 --> 00:55:24,488
Where Sharon Tate was.

977
00:55:28,033 --> 00:55:29,243
Could you see she was pregnant?

978
00:55:29,326 --> 00:55:30,786
Oh, yeah.

979
00:55:30,869 --> 00:55:32,454
If there are any problems,
I'm gonna talk to him about it.

980
00:55:32,538 --> 00:55:35,833
They're gonna try.

981
00:55:40,838 --> 00:55:43,006
She begged us to take her with us,

982
00:55:43,090 --> 00:55:45,884
let her have her baby and kill her after.

983
00:55:53,642 --> 00:55:55,519
Tex?

984
00:55:57,312 --> 00:55:59,982
It didn't seem crazy at the time,
the idea of takin' her.

985
00:56:00,774 --> 00:56:02,526
But I kept hearing Charlie's voice,

986
00:56:02,609 --> 00:56:03,694
"Kill 'em all."

987
00:56:04,027 --> 00:56:06,822
He told me over and over again,
"Make sure everyone's dead."

988
00:56:08,448 --> 00:56:09,366
So you made sure.

989
00:56:09,449 --> 00:56:11,618
I did what Charlie told me.

990
00:56:12,995 --> 00:56:14,329
Except go to the other houses.

991
00:56:15,205 --> 00:56:16,290
What other houses?

992
00:56:16,665 --> 00:56:19,793
Charlie had given us a list,
but... I was tired.

993
00:56:20,377 --> 00:56:22,504
It's hard stabbin' people, Agent Ford.

994
00:56:22,588 --> 00:56:25,799
Sometimes you hit bone.
My hands were aching.

995
00:56:27,467 --> 00:56:29,303
So we went back to the ranch, and...

996
00:56:30,095 --> 00:56:31,471
and I slept like a baby.

997
00:56:33,473 --> 00:56:36,643
Tex, do you think
you would have ever killed anyone

998
00:56:36,727 --> 00:56:38,145
if you hadn't met Charlie?

999
00:56:38,478 --> 00:56:39,479
I hope not.

1000
00:56:40,188 --> 00:56:42,149
I pray to God I wouldn't have, but...

1001
00:56:44,109 --> 00:56:46,111
I know, in my heart, I harbored anger.

1002
00:56:46,194 --> 00:56:48,572
I shot and I stabbed them.

1003
00:56:49,114 --> 00:56:52,492
I beat Frykowski's head with a pistol
until it broke in my hand.

1004
00:56:52,576 --> 00:56:54,202
But Charlie told you to do it.

1005
00:56:54,828 --> 00:56:56,580
Charlie never killed anyone.

1006
00:56:57,414 --> 00:56:59,499
He just removed our fear of doin' it.

1007
00:57:00,792 --> 00:57:02,920
So you're taking responsibility.

1008
00:57:03,837 --> 00:57:05,339
I killed those people.

1009
00:57:06,131 --> 00:57:07,132
All of them.

1010
00:57:07,716 --> 00:57:10,177
Those people are victims
of the Watson murders.

1011
00:57:10,844 --> 00:57:15,807
But the Bible tells us, all have sinned,
and all fall short of the glory of God.

1012
00:57:15,891 --> 00:57:18,226
He who confesses obtains mercy.

1013
00:57:18,727 --> 00:57:19,645
I was lost...

1014
00:57:19,728 --> 00:57:21,146
<i>...until I gave myself
to the Lord.</i>

1015
00:57:21,229 --> 00:57:24,942
<i>But now, I've been redeemed
by the perfect blood of Christ.</i>

1016
00:57:25,984 --> 00:57:28,320
First Manson and then Jesus.

1017
00:57:28,737 --> 00:57:31,198
He's just exchanged one belief system
for another.

1018
00:57:32,366 --> 00:57:34,326
See, the contradicting stories
don't concern me.

1019
00:57:34,409 --> 00:57:36,495
Neither is a completely reliable source.

1020
00:57:37,329 --> 00:57:39,498
And I'm not so sure
that Manson was a total loss.

1021
00:57:39,581 --> 00:57:42,459
He had influence over his young followers

1022
00:57:42,542 --> 00:57:44,294
much in the same way
that Corll had over Henley.

1023
00:57:44,795 --> 00:57:46,755
He used sex and drugs.

1024
00:57:46,838 --> 00:57:49,132
But he also had an overt philosophy.

1025
00:57:49,216 --> 00:57:50,342
If you can call it that.

1026
00:57:50,425 --> 00:57:52,552
What is Helter Skelter, really?

1027
00:57:53,387 --> 00:57:54,388
It's borrowed.

1028
00:57:54,471 --> 00:57:55,973
But how is it useful to him?

1029
00:57:56,682 --> 00:57:59,351
What if the point of Helter Skelter
wasn't a race war?

1030
00:57:59,434 --> 00:58:01,395
What if it was about control?

1031
00:58:01,812 --> 00:58:04,398
- Over the Family?
- A cause to forge solidarity.

1032
00:58:04,481 --> 00:58:07,818
What if Tex and Sadie did come up
with the idea of a copycat crime?

1033
00:58:08,443 --> 00:58:10,529
It's proactive, risky, revolutionary.

1034
00:58:11,113 --> 00:58:13,991
It may not have been what Manson intended,
but they called his bluff.

1035
00:58:14,074 --> 00:58:16,159
They were doing what he only talks about.

1036
00:58:16,576 --> 00:58:20,914
From Manson's perspective,
his authority would have been threatened.

1037
00:58:20,998 --> 00:58:22,332
He'd have no choice
but to go along with it.

1038
00:58:22,416 --> 00:58:23,417
At the LaBianca house,

1039
00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:26,294
Manson went in and tied up the victims
before sending the killers in.

1040
00:58:26,378 --> 00:58:28,880
He wanted to remind them
that this was his plan.

1041
00:58:28,964 --> 00:58:29,798
Not anyone else's.

1042
00:58:29,881 --> 00:58:33,218
He was doing whatever he could
to keep authority over his Family.

1043
00:58:33,635 --> 00:58:37,097
Control, or at least the appearance of it,
was worth any cost.

1044
00:58:37,597 --> 00:58:38,765
Even seven murders.

1045
00:58:39,057 --> 00:58:40,976
When we were leaving,
he did a weird thing.

1046
00:58:42,019 --> 00:58:44,438
He asked for my sunglasses,
so I gave them to him.

1047
00:58:44,521 --> 00:58:46,440
A guard chased me down
and said Manson bragged

1048
00:58:46,523 --> 00:58:48,400
to everyone he stole them from the FBI.

1049
00:58:48,734 --> 00:58:51,111
He was willing to go to the hole
just to look powerful.

1050
00:58:51,194 --> 00:58:53,822
On the one hand,
you have a bunch of drugged-out kids.

1051
00:58:53,905 --> 00:58:58,201
On the other,
a practiced, manipulative ex-con.

1052
00:58:59,327 --> 00:59:01,788
And you're arguing
that Manson was forced into it?

1053
00:59:02,205 --> 00:59:05,167
Tex gave a pretty detailed account
of succumbing to brainwashing.

1054
00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:06,626
He didn't dismiss the idea

1055
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:08,503
that he would've killed
without meeting Manson.

1056
00:59:08,587 --> 00:59:09,796
Manson found the right people.

1057
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,673
Young, submissive, alone.

1058
00:59:11,757 --> 00:59:13,884
But primarily,
people with untapped potential.

1059
00:59:13,967 --> 00:59:16,303
People who saw themselves as outliers.

1060
00:59:16,386 --> 00:59:19,014
People who only had to have
their fear removed to do what they did.

1061
00:59:19,473 --> 00:59:21,141
He simply helped them be who they were.

1062
00:59:26,646 --> 00:59:27,606
Hi.

1063
00:59:29,733 --> 00:59:32,527
- Escort me in?
- Nancy not coming?

1064
00:59:33,070 --> 00:59:35,489
Didn't want to drag her
to another office thing.

1065
00:59:35,781 --> 00:59:36,990
- You?
- Same.

1066
00:59:38,075 --> 00:59:39,451
So, how painful do you think...

1067
00:59:39,534 --> 00:59:41,411
...this thing is gonna be?

1068
00:59:41,578 --> 00:59:44,331
From the look of the house,
at least the booze will be good.

1069
00:59:47,626 --> 00:59:48,585
Welcome.

1070
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:49,878
Come on in.

1071
00:59:51,505 --> 00:59:52,881
Everyone's in the living room.

1072
00:59:52,964 --> 00:59:54,257
AD Wyman's already here.

1073
00:59:54,674 --> 00:59:58,136
I've been giving him a little warm-up.
Saving the best parts for you, of course.

1074
00:59:58,595 --> 01:00:01,556
Remember,
all they want is a good war story.

1075
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,308
Got a few of those.

1076
01:00:03,975 --> 01:00:06,019
Bill, go ahead in. I'll be right there.

1077
01:00:08,396 --> 01:00:09,231
Thank you.

1078
01:00:09,314 --> 01:00:12,651
Shilling for the FBI probably is not
what you expected to be roped into.

1079
01:00:12,734 --> 01:00:14,402
Oh, it's fine. I did plenty of it at BU.

1080
01:00:14,486 --> 01:00:15,987
Well, I appreciate it.

1081
01:00:16,071 --> 01:00:18,073
And I do want you to have a good time.

1082
01:00:19,032 --> 01:00:21,785
Speaking of which, there's someone
I would love for you to meet. Warren.

1083
01:00:23,870 --> 01:00:25,413
This is Dr. Wendy Carr.

1084
01:00:25,789 --> 01:00:28,917
Oh. Um... It is a pleasure, Dr. Carr.

1085
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:30,836
Warren is our liaison
with the LEAA,

1086
01:00:30,919 --> 01:00:33,296
so basically,
he manages our purse strings.

1087
01:00:33,380 --> 01:00:36,508
The good news is, I'm already a fan,
so there's no need to sell me.

1088
01:00:36,591 --> 01:00:38,218
Whew. Well, that's a relief.

1089
01:00:38,552 --> 01:00:40,470
Let me have a drink sent over.
What will you have?

1090
01:00:40,554 --> 01:00:42,264
A glass of white wine, thank you.

1091
01:00:44,015 --> 01:00:45,892
So you actually read our reports?

1092
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:49,855
They are so much more interesting
than budget committee minutes.

1093
01:00:50,438 --> 01:00:51,481
That's a low standard.

1094
01:00:51,815 --> 01:00:54,109
Well, I really have read them, Doctor...

1095
01:00:54,901 --> 01:00:56,611
- May I call you Wendy?
- Of course.

1096
01:00:56,945 --> 01:00:57,946
I've read the transcripts.

1097
01:00:58,029 --> 01:01:00,365
I've read the analyses,
and they're fascinating.

1098
01:01:00,448 --> 01:01:01,700
And truly original.

1099
01:01:01,783 --> 01:01:04,786
We were asked to keep our "originality"
in the basement when we started.

1100
01:01:04,870 --> 01:01:06,329
It must have been quite a shock,

1101
01:01:06,413 --> 01:01:09,166
coming from the world of scholarship
and daylight

1102
01:01:09,249 --> 01:01:11,042
into a bunker full of G-men.

1103
01:01:11,126 --> 01:01:12,794
I'm doing work
that I wouldn't be able to do

1104
01:01:12,878 --> 01:01:15,547
- anywhere else.
- You are hardly what I expected

1105
01:01:15,630 --> 01:01:19,259
from the "Dr. Carr Commentary
on Ed Kemper's Mutilation Fantasies."

1106
01:01:19,342 --> 01:01:21,303
Well, I'm afraid to ask what you expected.

1107
01:01:21,845 --> 01:01:24,723
Something not so form-fitted.

1108
01:01:26,057 --> 01:01:28,226
- A lot more tweed.
- Ah.

1109
01:01:31,271 --> 01:01:33,565
George, this is Special Agent Bill Tench.

1110
01:01:33,940 --> 01:01:36,234
- Founder of our Behavioral Science Unit.
- Ah.

1111
01:01:36,484 --> 01:01:39,196
I was telling George
I only know the boring admin side.

1112
01:01:39,279 --> 01:01:42,324
You are the guy who sits in the room
with the serial killers.

1113
01:01:42,407 --> 01:01:43,408
That's me, sir.

1114
01:01:43,491 --> 01:01:46,494
Amazing. Ted says no cuffs on these guys.
Is that right?

1115
01:01:46,578 --> 01:01:49,497
Makes 'em feel like we really want to hear
their side of the story.

1116
01:01:49,664 --> 01:01:51,833
Bill has been able
to get things out of Speck,

1117
01:01:51,917 --> 01:01:55,629
Berkowitz, even Manson,
that they have never said to anybody else.

1118
01:01:56,046 --> 01:01:59,507
We went into Berkowitz thinking we were
just going to hear that same old demon,

1119
01:01:59,591 --> 01:02:00,508
barking dog story.

1120
01:02:01,051 --> 01:02:03,720
What could we possibly learn
from a guy that crazy?

1121
01:02:03,803 --> 01:02:06,348
But we got him to admit
that the whole demon thing

1122
01:02:06,431 --> 01:02:07,641
was totally made up.

1123
01:02:08,058 --> 01:02:09,935
- He said that?
- A complete crock.

1124
01:02:10,518 --> 01:02:13,188
And he said the shrinks ate it up faster
than anybody.

1125
01:02:15,273 --> 01:02:18,610
But hiding in a basement
or hiding behind a typewriter,

1126
01:02:18,693 --> 01:02:19,986
you know, what else do you enjoy?

1127
01:02:20,070 --> 01:02:21,529
I don't consider
either of those things "hiding."

1128
01:02:22,155 --> 01:02:23,406
What I mean is,

1129
01:02:24,824 --> 01:02:26,952
you have a very compelling presence.

1130
01:02:27,369 --> 01:02:30,622
Spending all your time
in such solitary pursuits,

1131
01:02:30,705 --> 01:02:32,123
you may not even be aware of your...

1132
01:02:33,750 --> 01:02:34,876
your effect on people.

1133
01:02:39,339 --> 01:02:40,257
What are we doing here?

1134
01:02:41,132 --> 01:02:43,885
- Well, every job has its politics.
- What I mean is,

1135
01:02:44,302 --> 01:02:45,887
we could be somewhere else, together.

1136
01:02:46,846 --> 01:02:47,681
Oh.

1137
01:02:47,764 --> 01:02:48,765
I'd like to be alone with you.

1138
01:02:48,848 --> 01:02:53,520
Ah, Warren, no, thank you.

1139
01:02:53,603 --> 01:02:55,981
- We could be really enjoying ourselves.
- Holden!

1140
01:02:57,649 --> 01:03:00,193
This is Special Agent Holden Ford

1141
01:03:00,443 --> 01:03:02,070
who's also with Behavioral Science.

1142
01:03:02,153 --> 01:03:03,154
This is Warren...

1143
01:03:03,238 --> 01:03:05,323
Freeman. Justice liaison.

1144
01:03:05,699 --> 01:03:06,616
- Hi.
- Hi.

1145
01:03:06,700 --> 01:03:07,617
Were you looking for the bar?

1146
01:03:07,701 --> 01:03:09,869
'Cause I was thinking
about getting myself a refill,

1147
01:03:09,953 --> 01:03:12,122
but I'm just gonna stop off
at the ladies' room, first.

1148
01:03:12,205 --> 01:03:14,749
I'll get your drink,
and we can finish our conversation.

1149
01:03:17,711 --> 01:03:18,878
Oh.

1150
01:03:21,006 --> 01:03:21,881
It's this way.

1151
01:03:21,965 --> 01:03:23,341
- Thank you.
- Yeah.

1152
01:03:25,552 --> 01:03:29,472
The guard said he bragged
he'd stolen sunglasses from an FBI agent.

1153
01:03:29,556 --> 01:03:32,517
They threw him in solitary.

1154
01:03:33,018 --> 01:03:35,353
Rather than say they were a gift...
There he is!

1155
01:03:35,937 --> 01:03:37,856
...he preferred to do six weeks
in the hole

1156
01:03:37,939 --> 01:03:41,151
just to look like he was a badass.

1157
01:03:41,234 --> 01:03:43,361
Gentlemen, this is Special Agent Ford.

1158
01:03:43,445 --> 01:03:46,489
He's been key in developing many
of the techniques we now use in the field.

1159
01:03:46,573 --> 01:03:49,576
Bill's been regaling us.
You must have some amazing stories too.

1160
01:03:50,410 --> 01:03:52,704
I've had many of the same experiences
Bill's had.

1161
01:03:52,787 --> 01:03:54,956
I'll leave you in Agent Ford's hands.

1162
01:03:55,540 --> 01:03:57,125
Excuse me while I take a leak.

1163
01:04:04,966 --> 01:04:07,427
What's important in the Manson story

1164
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:10,847
is that we're learning
what compulsions motivate behavior.

1165
01:04:11,890 --> 01:04:13,641
For him, it was the appearance of control.

1166
01:04:13,725 --> 01:04:16,936
His crimes can be boiled down
to that singular need.

1167
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,440
By correlating psychological fingerprints
to known behaviors,

1168
01:04:20,523 --> 01:04:24,319
we're building a primer
to understanding criminal action.

1169
01:04:45,965 --> 01:04:48,385
How did you escape the dog and pony show?

1170
01:04:50,261 --> 01:04:52,639
You know,
it's cheating to hide with the wives.

1171
01:04:53,473 --> 01:04:55,642
Uh, Warren Freeman.

1172
01:04:55,725 --> 01:04:57,644
You know him?

1173
01:04:57,727 --> 01:04:58,603
Oh, yeah.

1174
01:04:59,437 --> 01:05:01,272
He's popular in the secretary pool

1175
01:05:01,356 --> 01:05:02,982
and the wives' club.

1176
01:05:03,066 --> 01:05:04,150
How'd you get away?

1177
01:05:04,234 --> 01:05:06,403
I... I grabbed on
to the first passing body.

1178
01:05:06,861 --> 01:05:08,196
Happened to be Holden.

1179
01:05:08,279 --> 01:05:10,615
That bad, huh?

1180
01:05:10,698 --> 01:05:11,866
Oh, I should've known.

1181
01:05:13,243 --> 01:05:15,328
How go the war stories?

1182
01:05:16,830 --> 01:05:19,040
I never know
exactly what it is I'm selling.

1183
01:05:20,125 --> 01:05:21,251
It's not the work.

1184
01:05:22,085 --> 01:05:25,004
I'm really just selling
somebody else's ass up the ladder.

1185
01:05:25,922 --> 01:05:27,757
Still, it's a hell of a lot better than...

1186
01:05:30,677 --> 01:05:31,553
Sorry.

1187
01:05:32,887 --> 01:05:34,681
I got some things going on at home.

1188
01:05:36,057 --> 01:05:36,975
You okay?

1189
01:05:41,688 --> 01:05:45,608
Brian was playing with some older boys
and a toddler.

1190
01:05:46,651 --> 01:05:47,944
Things got out of hand...

1191
01:05:49,779 --> 01:05:52,699
and the older boys
ended up suffocating the toddler.

1192
01:05:53,366 --> 01:05:54,451
Oh, my God.

1193
01:05:55,410 --> 01:05:56,661
Brian saw it all.

1194
01:05:59,789 --> 01:06:01,541
He must've remembered the Bible story

1195
01:06:01,624 --> 01:06:06,754
because he convinced the other boys
to take the body and tie it to a cross.

1196
01:06:08,089 --> 01:06:10,216
He's exempt from charges, thankfully.

1197
01:06:10,967 --> 01:06:12,427
But he...

1198
01:06:13,386 --> 01:06:16,681
<i>We </i>have to go
through court-mandated protocols.

1199
01:06:16,764 --> 01:06:18,391
Is Brian talking to someone?

1200
01:06:18,475 --> 01:06:21,144
We've got a psychiatrist, a social worker,

1201
01:06:21,686 --> 01:06:23,229
benchmarks we have to meet.

1202
01:06:24,105 --> 01:06:25,064
How is Nancy?

1203
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,818
She's not grasping
that Brian might need some kind of help.

1204
01:06:29,319 --> 01:06:30,195
On the other hand,

1205
01:06:30,278 --> 01:06:32,030
she won't leave him alone
for five minutes.

1206
01:06:32,113 --> 01:06:34,115
That's really why she's not here tonight.

1207
01:06:34,199 --> 01:06:36,284
We haven't left the house
since it happened.

1208
01:06:36,784 --> 01:06:39,537
I mean, just give it time.
I mean, this is huge.

1209
01:06:40,997 --> 01:06:43,416
And really, Bill, anything that I can do.

1210
01:06:44,375 --> 01:06:46,127
I'm gonna ask for your discretion.

1211
01:06:49,130 --> 01:06:50,256
Holden doesn't know.

1212
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:54,719
I understand.

1213
01:06:59,265 --> 01:07:00,934
They look critically bored.

1214
01:07:01,309 --> 01:07:02,602
We should get back in there.

1215
01:07:03,811 --> 01:07:05,146
Perform life support.

1216
01:07:11,611 --> 01:07:13,613
You know, Bill,
I think that I just might sneak out.

1217
01:07:13,696 --> 01:07:14,739
I don't blame you.

1218
01:07:17,951 --> 01:07:18,785
Wendy.

1219
01:07:19,953 --> 01:07:21,829
I hope I didn't frighten you off.

1220
01:07:21,913 --> 01:07:24,666
I'd love for us to finish our talk,
maybe somewhere quieter.

1221
01:07:24,749 --> 01:07:26,918
Oh, thank you,
but I'm actually not feeling very well.

1222
01:07:27,001 --> 01:07:29,003
Oh, I'd love to drive you home.

1223
01:07:29,629 --> 01:07:31,631
- I insist.
- I'm perfectly fine to drive.

1224
01:07:31,714 --> 01:07:33,841
Well, at least let me see you out.

1225
01:07:33,925 --> 01:07:36,844
No, Warren, I'm going to see myself out.
I insist.

1226
01:07:45,144 --> 01:07:48,064
Wyman's invited you
to speak at the annual directors' retreat.

1227
01:07:48,439 --> 01:07:49,607
I accepted for you.

1228
01:07:51,818 --> 01:07:54,821
A spectacular country club: skeet, golf.

1229
01:07:54,904 --> 01:07:55,863
No wives.

1230
01:07:57,073 --> 01:07:58,992
And it's face time with the director.

1231
01:07:59,158 --> 01:08:00,785
That's what we were hoping for tonight,
sir?

1232
01:08:04,330 --> 01:08:06,207
Miss. Let's get this man a drink.

1233
01:08:06,291 --> 01:08:07,292
He's earned it.

1234
01:08:13,172 --> 01:08:15,174
Think you can get Holden
to loosen up a little?

1235
01:08:15,258 --> 01:08:17,719
...events in a suspect's life.

1236
01:08:17,802 --> 01:08:20,471
We've found a high incidence
of broken homes and neglected families...

1237
01:08:20,555 --> 01:08:22,599
Did my partner tell you
about Richard Speck?

1238
01:08:22,682 --> 01:08:23,683
No.

1239
01:08:23,766 --> 01:08:24,976
So Speck comes in,

1240
01:08:25,351 --> 01:08:29,105
and we see
he's got something in his hands.

1241
01:08:52,378 --> 01:08:53,838
- Hello?
<i>- Hey, Holden.</i>

1242
01:08:53,921 --> 01:08:54,964
<i>News from Atlanta.</i>

1243
01:08:55,214 --> 01:08:56,633
Jim. Tell me.

1244
01:08:56,716 --> 01:08:58,635
<i>Another body, another strangulation.</i>

1245
01:08:59,135 --> 01:09:00,136
How old?

1246
01:09:00,219 --> 01:09:01,054
<i>Twelve.</i>

1247
01:09:01,346 --> 01:09:02,472
<i>Clifford Jones.</i>

1248
01:09:02,847 --> 01:09:05,558
<i>He was collecting cans for change
so his aunt could do laundry.</i>

1249
01:09:05,642 --> 01:09:06,559
<i>Broad daylight.</i>

1250
01:09:07,226 --> 01:09:09,020
<i>He's number 13.</i>