1
00:00:02,507 --> 00:00:06,616
- I wish I could make you feel safe.
- Can‘t you warn him off for me?
2
00:00:06,617 --> 00:00:09,108
- Drive. Go, go!
- What happened?
3
00:00:09,109 --> 00:00:11,600
Trust me. Everything's going to be OK.
4
00:00:11,601 --> 00:00:13,546
I'll see you in Apple Tree Yard.
5
00:00:16,148 --> 00:00:18,201
Were you there when Mark Costley
6
00:00:18,202 --> 00:00:21,423
beat and kicked George
Selway to death, Yvonne?
7
00:00:21,424 --> 00:00:23,331
Ijust don't get why you went to him.
8
00:00:24,698 --> 00:00:27,586
Costley's effectively pleading
guilty to manslaughter.
9
00:00:27,587 --> 00:00:29,004
If they accept Costley's plea,
10
00:00:29,005 --> 00:00:31,882
they still can come
after you for murder.
11
00:00:31,883 --> 00:00:35,167
That you have brought into your mess!
12
00:00:35,168 --> 00:00:37,701
You deserve everything you get!
13
00:00:37,702 --> 00:00:40,193
The first defendant, Mark Liam Costley,
14
00:00:40,194 --> 00:00:43,665
claimed that he is not responsible
for the killing of George Selway
15
00:00:43,666 --> 00:00:46,700
because he has a personality disorder.
16
00:00:46,701 --> 00:00:48,264
What are "special measures"?
17
00:00:48,265 --> 00:00:51,924
Yes, that's the witness that
needs to retain anonymity.
18
00:00:51,925 --> 00:00:54,374
- The Ml5 man, yes?
- Yeah.
19
00:00:54,376 --> 00:00:58,904
I'm asking if you were happy enough
with Mark Costley's mental state?
20
00:00:58,907 --> 00:01:01,486
It was purely for me to turn him down
21
00:01:01,489 --> 00:01:04,377
as an unsuitable candidate
for the security services.
22
00:01:26,055 --> 00:01:27,952
Who are you really?
23
00:01:29,663 --> 00:01:32,602
You may not be a spook, Mark Costley...
24
00:01:34,845 --> 00:01:37,149
but one thing's clear...
25
00:01:38,902 --> 00:01:41,101
You're beautiful.
26
00:01:43,219 --> 00:01:45,366
you're in love with secrets.
27
00:01:47,359 --> 00:01:49,120
Life's mysterious...
28
00:01:49,121 --> 00:01:52,524
Maybe that‘s all we
shared, you and I...
29
00:01:54,397 --> 00:01:56,065
Trust me.
30
00:01:57,630 --> 00:01:59,391
...a secret.
31
00:02:03,396 --> 00:02:05,992
A secret we have to keep.
32
00:02:13,293 --> 00:02:20,247
- Synced and corrected by VitoSilans -
-- www.Addic7ed.com --
33
00:02:22,364 --> 00:02:27,598
Sergeant Johns, the man we have
in the dock here, Mr Costley,
34
00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:30,476
- do you know him?
- Yes, I worked with him
35
00:02:30,477 --> 00:02:32,822
throug hout my time at the Crown Estate.
36
00:02:32,823 --> 00:02:35,168
- On a daily basis?
- That's correct.
37
00:02:35,169 --> 00:02:37,316
Would you mind describing to the court
38
00:02:37,317 --> 00:02:41,279
Mark Costley's responsibilities
as a security advisor,
39
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,135
so far as you understand them?
40
00:02:43,136 --> 00:02:44,167
Certainly.
41
00:02:44,168 --> 00:02:47,786
It was his job to ensure
compliance, health and safety,
42
00:02:47,787 --> 00:02:50,174
any arrangements for special events,
43
00:02:50,175 --> 00:02:52,153
checking the duty log,
44
00:02:52,156 --> 00:02:55,262
supervising shifts for
the CCTV monitoring crews,
45
00:02:55,263 --> 00:02:56,973
that sort of thing.
46
00:02:56,974 --> 00:02:58,923
And was Mr Costley good at his job?
47
00:02:58,924 --> 00:03:03,177
Yes, he was, on the whole.
He was very reliable.
48
00:03:03,178 --> 00:03:04,351
Efficient.
49
00:03:04,354 --> 00:03:08,704
During the time you worked
with him, until he was arrested,
50
00:03:08,705 --> 00:03:11,926
did your colleague display any behaviour
51
00:03:11,927 --> 00:03:16,816
that led to concerns that he
might be unstable psychologically?
52
00:03:16,817 --> 00:03:19,653
No. He did everything
that was required of him.
53
00:03:19,654 --> 00:03:23,125
- He was just... normal.
- Normal?
54
00:03:23,126 --> 00:03:26,055
To talk to, the way he acted.
55
00:03:26,056 --> 00:03:27,724
Were you aware of any change
56
00:03:27,725 --> 00:03:30,852
in what you describe as Mark
Costley's "normal" behaviour
57
00:03:30,853 --> 00:03:33,678
in the days before the
killing of George Selway
58
00:03:33,679 --> 00:03:36,041
on March the 12th of this year?
59
00:03:37,067 --> 00:03:39,601
I can't remember any change at all.
60
00:03:39,602 --> 00:03:44,385
- He seemed... how he always did.
- What about prior to that?
61
00:03:44,388 --> 00:03:46,348
In November of the previous year,
62
00:03:46,349 --> 00:03:49,132
when Yvonne Carmichael
told him she'd been raped,
63
00:03:49,133 --> 00:03:51,280
did you observe any change
64
00:03:51,281 --> 00:03:54,310
in your colleague Mark Costley's
behaviour at that time?
65
00:03:54,313 --> 00:03:55,386
No.
66
00:03:55,389 --> 00:03:58,464
I don't remember any change whatsoever.
67
00:03:58,466 --> 00:04:00,373
He was just Mark.
68
00:04:00,374 --> 00:04:02,813
Sergeant Johns, you've told the court
69
00:04:02,814 --> 00:04:05,847
that you saw no change in
Mark Costley‘s behaviour
70
00:04:05,848 --> 00:04:08,199
in November of last year.
Is that correct?
71
00:04:08,202 --> 00:04:09,108
Yes.
72
00:04:09,111 --> 00:04:11,498
That‘s not strictly true, is it?
73
00:04:12,157 --> 00:04:15,284
In respect of Mark
Costley‘s behaviour to you...
74
00:04:15,285 --> 00:04:18,430
was there a change
in November last year?
75
00:04:19,290 --> 00:04:22,323
Not really. I don't think so.
76
00:04:22,324 --> 00:04:25,107
Isn't it the case that, during November
77
00:04:25,108 --> 00:04:27,996
and into December of last year,
78
00:04:27,997 --> 00:04:30,634
the two of you had had a
short-lived relationship,
79
00:04:30,635 --> 00:04:32,782
which ended acrimoniously?
80
00:04:32,783 --> 00:04:35,816
- No. That's absolutely untrue.
- Which bit?
81
00:04:35,817 --> 00:04:39,185
That you and Mr Costley were in a
relationship, or that it was over?
82
00:04:39,186 --> 00:04:40,895
It wasn't a relationship.
83
00:04:42,074 --> 00:04:44,221
I wouldn't describe it like that at all.
84
00:04:44,222 --> 00:04:46,964
- How would you describe it?
- I would say...
85
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,092
Mark propositioned me.
86
00:04:51,121 --> 00:04:54,007
And had he "propositioned"
you prior to this?
87
00:04:54,011 --> 00:04:55,386
No.
88
00:04:56,099 --> 00:04:59,331
So this marked a change in his
behaviour, then, towards you,
89
00:04:59,332 --> 00:05:01,865
- in November of last year?
- Well, I suppose so.
90
00:05:01,866 --> 00:05:04,211
I thought that you meant
his general behav...
91
00:05:04,212 --> 00:05:06,171
You went for drinks with
Mr Costley after work
92
00:05:06,172 --> 00:05:09,049
on, I believe, three orfour occasions.
93
00:05:09,050 --> 00:05:10,958
Not that many times.
94
00:05:10,959 --> 00:05:13,888
- Once or twice.
- Which was it? Once or twice?
95
00:05:13,889 --> 00:05:15,848
- Twice, maybe.
- Oh, really?
96
00:05:15,849 --> 00:05:19,122
Well, my information is that
it was at least three times.
97
00:05:19,123 --> 00:05:22,595
And on the last of these occasions,
in early December of last year,
98
00:05:22,596 --> 00:05:25,285
you had intimate contact with Mr Costley
99
00:05:25,286 --> 00:05:28,309
in a Westminster pub
called the Bull And Keg.
100
00:05:28,310 --> 00:05:32,220
Firstly... the first time we went
out was with a group of people.
101
00:05:32,221 --> 00:05:33,940
So I would say twice.
102
00:05:33,941 --> 00:05:36,766
Secondly, the contact
that you're referring to
103
00:05:36,767 --> 00:05:39,408
was initiated by him and
I told him to stop.
104
00:05:39,412 --> 00:05:40,564
Immediately?
105
00:05:44,703 --> 00:05:47,830
Did you ask him to stop
immediately, Sergeant Johns?
106
00:05:52,659 --> 00:05:54,764
Not immediately. No.
107
00:05:54,765 --> 00:05:56,422
So perhaps you could take us through
108
00:05:56,423 --> 00:05:58,914
exactly what happened between
you in the Bull And Keg.
109
00:06:00,824 --> 00:06:03,805
We'd had a few drinks and Mark...
110
00:06:03,806 --> 00:06:07,371
Mr Costley had his hand on my knee.
111
00:06:07,372 --> 00:06:09,916
It was making me uncomfortable.
112
00:06:11,231 --> 00:06:13,388
Just having his hand on your knee?
113
00:06:13,389 --> 00:06:15,140
No.
114
00:06:17,831 --> 00:06:19,791
I have no wish to
embarrass you, Sergeant,
115
00:06:19,792 --> 00:06:22,377
but can I suggest
that you and Mr Costley
116
00:06:22,378 --> 00:06:24,973
had been drinking
together since around 6pm?
117
00:06:24,974 --> 00:06:28,247
He had his hand on your
knee beneath the table.
118
00:06:28,248 --> 00:06:32,054
At some point, he moved
his hand under your skirt,
119
00:06:32,055 --> 00:06:35,234
down your tights and
into your underwear...
120
00:06:36,747 --> 00:06:40,072
where he proceeded, I believe
the appropriate colloquialism is,
121
00:06:40,073 --> 00:06:41,491
to finger you.
122
00:06:41,492 --> 00:06:44,379
My Lord, I fail to see how
this is in any way necessary.
123
00:06:44,380 --> 00:06:46,871
Well, I'm seeking to establish
the fitness of the witness
124
00:06:46,872 --> 00:06:48,873
to assess the defendant's mental state.
125
00:06:50,439 --> 00:06:52,002
I'll allow this question.
126
00:06:52,003 --> 00:06:54,786
But move on swiftly, please, Ms Bonnard.
127
00:06:54,787 --> 00:06:58,894
Did Mr Costley insert his fingers
into your vagina, Sergeant Johns?
128
00:07:05,831 --> 00:07:07,394
Yes.
129
00:07:07,397 --> 00:07:10,232
And did you prevent him from
doing so, or object in any way?
130
00:07:11,847 --> 00:07:13,900
Not at the time, no.
131
00:07:13,901 --> 00:07:16,100
So in other words, you and Mr Costley
132
00:07:16,101 --> 00:07:18,743
had intimate sexual
contact, did you not?
133
00:07:18,744 --> 00:07:22,800
You know, which in many people's
eyes, constitutes a relationship.
134
00:07:29,151 --> 00:07:30,912
I told him I didn't like it.
135
00:07:30,914 --> 00:07:33,061
Was this in the pub?
136
00:07:35,366 --> 00:07:38,347
No. At work, the next day.
137
00:07:38,348 --> 00:07:39,953
It was embarrassing.
138
00:07:41,425 --> 00:07:44,406
I told him I wasn't
interested and, after that,
139
00:07:44,407 --> 00:07:47,534
he made it clear that he was
giving me the cold shoulder.
140
00:07:47,535 --> 00:07:50,954
Things got quite hostile
on his part, actually.
141
00:07:50,955 --> 00:07:53,551
He started ignoring me
in meetings and so on.
142
00:07:53,552 --> 00:07:55,407
He made it really difficult.
143
00:07:55,408 --> 00:07:58,300
So, when you told this court...
144
00:07:59,602 --> 00:08:03,146
that Mr Costley was "just Mark'"...
145
00:08:03,907 --> 00:08:06,742
in both November of last
year, when Yvonne Carmichael
146
00:08:06,743 --> 00:08:09,844
sought his advice after
her rape by George Selway
147
00:08:09,847 --> 00:08:11,487
and in the days immediately preceding
148
00:08:11,488 --> 00:08:13,197
the killing of George Selway,
149
00:08:13,198 --> 00:08:15,053
did his "normal" pattern of behaviour
150
00:08:15,054 --> 00:08:17,211
include the sexual advances towards you
151
00:08:17,212 --> 00:08:19,704
and his "difficult"
professional behaviour?
152
00:08:19,705 --> 00:08:23,708
I just meant... the day-to-day.
It was nothing I couldn't handle.
153
00:08:23,709 --> 00:08:25,908
Is being felt up by a
colleague in the pub normal,
154
00:08:25,909 --> 00:08:28,108
as far as you're concerned,
Sergeant Johns?
155
00:08:28,109 --> 00:08:29,526
No! Of course it's not!
156
00:08:30,987 --> 00:08:33,927
No further questions for
this witness, my Lord.
157
00:08:38,519 --> 00:08:40,030
No questions, my Lord.
158
00:08:42,093 --> 00:08:44,970
Thank you, Sergeant Johns.
You may step down.
159
00:08:47,025 --> 00:08:49,026
Poor Sergeant Johns.
160
00:08:50,625 --> 00:08:53,910
Two weeks after I told you
what George Selway did to me...
161
00:08:54,992 --> 00:08:57,827
you were in that pub with her.
162
00:08:57,828 --> 00:09:00,371
That's how much I mean to you.
163
00:09:00,372 --> 00:09:04,188
Dr. Sanderson, can you
tell the jury what you do?
164
00:09:04,189 --> 00:09:06,534
I'm a consultant forensic psychiatrist
165
00:09:06,535 --> 00:09:10,486
and I've been practising as
such for the last 23 years.
166
00:09:10,487 --> 00:09:14,887
You conducted an assessment of
Mark Costley while he was on remand.
167
00:09:14,888 --> 00:09:17,087
- Is that correct?
- That's correct.
168
00:09:17,088 --> 00:09:19,433
Having examined Mark Costley,
169
00:09:19,434 --> 00:09:22,509
do you assess him as suffering
from a personality disorder?
170
00:09:22,510 --> 00:09:24,470
- I do not.
- Why is that?
171
00:09:25,889 --> 00:09:29,162
An individual with a
personality disorder
172
00:09:29,163 --> 00:09:33,469
would not possess Mr Costley's
solid work record, for one,
173
00:09:33,470 --> 00:09:36,743
or his complete lack
of psychiatric history.
174
00:09:36,744 --> 00:09:40,059
It's also extremely unlikely
175
00:09:40,060 --> 00:09:42,551
that a personality-disordered
individual
176
00:09:42,552 --> 00:09:45,148
would hold down a stable marriage,
177
00:09:45,149 --> 00:09:48,182
let alone a career in the civil service.
178
00:09:48,183 --> 00:09:50,966
And setting all that aside,
179
00:09:50,967 --> 00:09:52,677
during my assessment,
180
00:09:52,678 --> 00:09:56,879
Mr Costley displayed none
of the signs or symptoms
181
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,985
of a personality disorder.
182
00:09:58,986 --> 00:10:00,695
What are those?
183
00:10:00,696 --> 00:10:02,698
Emotional instability.
184
00:10:02,699 --> 00:10:05,576
Lack of individual identity.
185
00:10:05,577 --> 00:10:08,412
A pattern of run-ins with the law.
186
00:10:08,413 --> 00:10:10,226
Suicidal behaviours.
187
00:10:10,227 --> 00:10:12,771
Addictions of various kinds.
188
00:10:12,772 --> 00:10:14,575
So...
189
00:10:14,576 --> 00:10:18,631
during your examination, Mr
Costley displayed none of these?
190
00:10:18,632 --> 00:10:19,955
No.
191
00:10:19,956 --> 00:10:24,981
In my expert opinion, he has
difficulty telling the truth.
192
00:10:24,983 --> 00:10:27,776
But the pursuit of extramarital sex
193
00:10:27,777 --> 00:10:30,414
and a tendency to embroider the facts
194
00:10:30,415 --> 00:10:33,887
do not mean that he is mentally unwell.
195
00:10:33,888 --> 00:10:37,651
Otherwise, half the men in the
country would be seeking treatment.
196
00:10:42,053 --> 00:10:45,326
Coming now to previous
offences on file...
197
00:10:45,327 --> 00:10:46,890
Yes. In 2005,
198
00:10:46,891 --> 00:10:49,622
Mark Costley pleaded
guilty to the charge
199
00:10:49,623 --> 00:10:52,511
of assault occasioning
actual bodily harm.
200
00:10:52,512 --> 00:10:54,898
Thank you, Detective
Inspector Cleveland.
201
00:10:54,899 --> 00:10:57,839
That concludes the case
for the Crown, my Lord.
202
00:11:04,138 --> 00:11:06,932
I don't know you at all, dol?
203
00:11:06,933 --> 00:11:08,538
I never did.
204
00:11:08,539 --> 00:11:12,354
And you are all that's standing
between me and a prison sentence.
205
00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:19,153
I'm sorry I wasn't
there this afternoon.
206
00:11:19,154 --> 00:11:21,353
I took Carrie in for a check-up.
207
00:11:21,354 --> 00:11:24,404
- But everything's OK, isn't it?
- Yes. Yeah.
208
00:11:25,161 --> 00:11:28,486
- You would tell me if it wasn't?
- Absolutely fine.
209
00:11:28,487 --> 00:11:30,634
Of course.
210
00:11:30,635 --> 00:11:32,636
The baby's just not
ready to come out yet.
211
00:11:32,637 --> 00:11:34,795
All OK this afternoon?
212
00:11:35,964 --> 00:11:37,579
Yeah.
213
00:11:37,580 --> 00:11:39,581
Smoke and mirrors, you know?
214
00:11:40,906 --> 00:11:43,053
You know I love you.
215
00:11:43,054 --> 00:11:44,618
Stay strong, hm?
216
00:11:45,985 --> 00:11:48,476
- I'll see you tomorrow, love.
- Bye.
217
00:11:57,132 --> 00:11:59,623
Good morning, Dr. Carmichael.
218
00:11:59,624 --> 00:12:01,281
We're getting there.
219
00:12:01,282 --> 00:12:03,877
Even Ms. Bonnard shouldn't
be able to spin her case out
220
00:12:03,878 --> 00:12:06,172
- beyond the end of today.
- Really?
221
00:12:06,173 --> 00:12:10,040
Well, Mr. Costley won't be in the
box, as they're pleading diminished.
222
00:12:10,041 --> 00:12:11,792
So, er... yeah.
223
00:12:11,793 --> 00:12:15,901
The... assault that the
prosecution mentioned yesterday,
224
00:12:15,902 --> 00:12:19,029
that Mark was charged with,
225
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:21,229
do you know the details?
226
00:12:21,230 --> 00:12:24,013
He, er... attacked a
man outside a restaurant
227
00:12:24,014 --> 00:12:26,172
who was chatting up his wife, I believe.
228
00:12:26,173 --> 00:12:28,216
Broke his jaw.
229
00:12:28,217 --> 00:12:30,322
The defence managed
to limit the admission,
230
00:12:30,323 --> 00:12:32,136
so the jury doesn't know that.
231
00:12:32,137 --> 00:12:34,775
It won't have exactly improved
their opinion of him, though,
232
00:12:34,776 --> 00:12:38,539
- hearing he has a conviction.
- Do you think they think it's murder?
233
00:12:39,708 --> 00:12:41,521
Well, in my experience,
234
00:12:41,522 --> 00:12:45,181
it's always best not to try and
second-guess what a jury's thinking.
235
00:12:45,182 --> 00:12:48,112
Hopefully, the defence
psychiatrist Ms. Bonnard is calling
236
00:12:48,113 --> 00:12:52,418
will help convince the jury that
Mr. Costley is mad, rather than bad.
237
00:12:52,419 --> 00:12:54,858
Not that we're relying on
his defence, you understand.
238
00:12:54,859 --> 00:12:57,350
But it would help our case, wouldn't it?
239
00:12:57,352 --> 00:13:00,969
Diminished responsibility. Manslaughter.
240
00:13:00,970 --> 00:13:02,877
It would help, certainly.
241
00:13:05,078 --> 00:13:06,986
When I examined Mark Costley,
242
00:13:06,987 --> 00:13:10,604
he displayed very highly
developed coping mechanisms,
243
00:13:10,605 --> 00:13:13,826
considering the situation he
was in, the stress he was under.
244
00:13:13,827 --> 00:13:15,682
Coping...
245
00:13:15,683 --> 00:13:19,353
Isn't that the sign of someone who's
psychologically healthy, Dr. Sadiq?
246
00:13:19,354 --> 00:13:22,971
Not necessarily. Not all patients
with disordered personalities
247
00:13:22,972 --> 00:13:24,681
have chaotic lives.
248
00:13:24,682 --> 00:13:27,413
Very intelligent people,
with good support systems,
249
00:13:27,414 --> 00:13:31,084
they can be what you could
call high-functioning patients.
250
00:13:31,085 --> 00:13:34,452
Theircoping, in fact, masks
more deep-seated symptoms.
251
00:13:34,453 --> 00:13:37,591
Could you tell us, Dr. Sadiq,
how a personality disorder
252
00:13:37,592 --> 00:13:39,781
might be displayed in a patient...
253
00:13:42,524 --> 00:13:47,163
What did you think of me, the
first time you saw me? Honestly?
254
00:13:47,164 --> 00:13:48,582
Well...
255
00:13:50,063 --> 00:13:51,522
I thought...
256
00:13:52,347 --> 00:13:53,670
I would.
257
00:13:55,475 --> 00:13:57,925
- Well, you did. Yeah.
- I did.
258
00:14:00,022 --> 00:14:01,543
So was it just that?
259
00:14:01,544 --> 00:14:03,295
Seriously, like, "I would"?
260
00:14:04,370 --> 00:14:06,038
No, I just thought...
261
00:14:08,041 --> 00:14:10,334
you seemed to know what you were doing.
262
00:14:11,951 --> 00:14:13,566
No, not like that!
263
00:14:13,567 --> 00:14:15,662
Well, yes, like that.
264
00:14:19,188 --> 00:14:20,553
But you seemed...
265
00:14:24,362 --> 00:14:25,435
right.
266
00:14:27,739 --> 00:14:29,325
Sound...
267
00:14:39,574 --> 00:14:42,555
...so, in Mr Costley's
case, he dissociates.
268
00:14:42,556 --> 00:14:44,755
He detaches from real life
269
00:14:44,756 --> 00:14:47,050
and creates his own
self-sustaining narrative.
270
00:14:47,051 --> 00:14:50,418
Forgive me, Doctor. Would you mind
putting that in layperson's terms?
271
00:14:50,419 --> 00:14:52,086
Sorry.
272
00:14:52,087 --> 00:14:54,776
Patients like Mr. Costley,
273
00:14:54,777 --> 00:14:57,759
they make themselves the
hero of their own story,
274
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,543
almost like they're
in a film, or a book,
275
00:15:00,544 --> 00:15:03,275
and they're watching themselves
as the main character.
276
00:15:03,276 --> 00:15:06,163
And to other people, this
tendency to make up stories,
277
00:15:06,164 --> 00:15:10,512
could it make the sufferer seem
merely... a bit of a fantasist?
278
00:15:10,513 --> 00:15:13,004
It could look like that,
on the outside, yes.
279
00:15:13,005 --> 00:15:16,768
But it would represent an
abnormality of mental functioning,
280
00:15:16,769 --> 00:15:19,407
- is that correct?
- That is correct.
281
00:15:20,534 --> 00:15:24,881
What happens, Dr Sadiq, when someone
suffering from this type of disorder
282
00:15:24,882 --> 00:15:27,624
is put in an unusually
stressful situation?
283
00:15:27,625 --> 00:15:30,846
Well, if their sense
of safety is challenged
284
00:15:30,847 --> 00:15:33,828
by the loss of their stable environment,
285
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:35,590
they decompensate.
286
00:15:35,591 --> 00:15:37,686
Decompensate... What does that mean?
287
00:15:37,687 --> 00:15:39,699
Act oddly, if you like.
288
00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:42,577
They might then start
showing chaotic behaviour,
289
00:15:42,580 --> 00:15:45,851
disturbed behaviour, violent
or self-destructive tendencies.
290
00:15:45,852 --> 00:15:48,343
- Violent, you say?
- Yes.
291
00:15:48,344 --> 00:15:51,524
They might lash out,
lose control completely.
292
00:15:51,525 --> 00:15:55,236
And in an altercation,
Such as we can assume
293
00:15:55,237 --> 00:15:58,218
took place between George
Selway and Mark Costley...
294
00:15:58,219 --> 00:16:00,231
- Objection!
- Ms. Bonnard...
295
00:16:00,232 --> 00:16:01,743
My Lord.
296
00:16:04,382 --> 00:16:09,856
To be clear, Dr. Sadiq, in a
personality-disordered individual,
297
00:16:09,857 --> 00:16:12,494
such as the type you're describing,
298
00:16:12,495 --> 00:16:15,820
could an argument or a physical threat
299
00:16:15,821 --> 00:16:18,312
substantially impair their
ability to keep a grip
300
00:16:18,313 --> 00:16:20,565
on what a reasonable response might be?
301
00:16:20,566 --> 00:16:22,317
I think so, yes.
302
00:16:22,318 --> 00:16:26,237
Right, so their abnormality
of mental functioning
303
00:16:26,238 --> 00:16:28,678
would, in this situation,
304
00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:32,932
affect their ability to
exercise self-control?
305
00:16:32,933 --> 00:16:34,538
Yes, it would.
306
00:16:34,539 --> 00:16:37,134
Returning to Mark Costley,
307
00:16:37,135 --> 00:16:40,753
during your examination of him,
what conclusions did you draw?
308
00:16:40,754 --> 00:16:44,371
I was struck by his almost
inappropriate ability
309
00:16:44,372 --> 00:16:47,791
to manage this very
stressful situation he was in
310
00:16:47,792 --> 00:16:50,430
as though he'd found a
different story to tell himself.
311
00:16:50,431 --> 00:16:53,558
Added to the nature of
the crime he's admitted to,
312
00:16:53,559 --> 00:16:56,926
his history of risky sexual encounters,
313
00:16:56,927 --> 00:17:00,795
even his attraction to
the secret service...
314
00:17:00,796 --> 00:17:03,975
In my opinion, Mark Costley
fits the profile of someone
315
00:17:03,976 --> 00:17:06,561
with a high-functioning
personality disorder.
316
00:17:08,658 --> 00:17:09,836
Thank you.
317
00:17:12,861 --> 00:17:15,988
No questions for the witness, my Lord.
318
00:17:15,989 --> 00:17:18,480
Dr Sadiq, this theory of yours
319
00:17:18,481 --> 00:17:21,806
about so-called high-functioning
personality disorders,
320
00:17:21,808 --> 00:17:25,477
am I correct in saying it formed
the basis of your PhD thesis
321
00:17:25,478 --> 00:17:29,586
- at Kingston University?
- Yes, that's right.
322
00:17:29,587 --> 00:17:32,224
So would it be fair to
say it's your pet theory?
323
00:17:33,823 --> 00:17:36,460
Well... in a way.
324
00:17:37,261 --> 00:17:41,066
It's certainly a theory I've
done a great deal of work on.
325
00:17:41,067 --> 00:17:44,049
- It explains a lot, in my opinion.
- Indeed.
326
00:17:44,050 --> 00:17:47,521
But isn't it the case that
your theory is countered
327
00:17:47,522 --> 00:17:50,649
by the recognised diagnostic
categorisation systems
328
00:17:50,650 --> 00:17:53,976
- used in psychiatry?
- Well, I wouldn't say countered.
329
00:17:53,977 --> 00:17:57,938
For instance, the Worldwide
Disease Classification Index...
330
00:17:57,939 --> 00:18:00,326
Is high-functioning
personality disorder
331
00:18:00,327 --> 00:18:02,923
included in the current
manual, Dr Sadiq?
332
00:18:02,924 --> 00:18:05,311
It isn't in WDCI-IO.
333
00:18:05,312 --> 00:18:08,585
But we're hoping, by the
time WDCI-II comes out,
334
00:18:08,586 --> 00:18:10,744
- it'll be included.
- No doubt.
335
00:18:10,745 --> 00:18:14,258
But does high-functioning
personality disorder
336
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:17,928
appear anywhere in this highly
respected reference work?
337
00:18:21,256 --> 00:18:22,860
Erm...
338
00:18:22,861 --> 00:18:26,625
it isn't yet classified as a
separate diagnosis in the WDCI.
339
00:18:26,626 --> 00:18:31,130
But in WDCI-II, the intention
is to move to a spectrum-based...
340
00:18:31,131 --> 00:18:32,735
Thank you, Dr Sadiq.
341
00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:38,846
In the Biannual Study Papers
Of Mental Disorders, Volume 24,
342
00:18:38,847 --> 00:18:41,443
dated March 2013,
343
00:18:41,444 --> 00:18:45,697
there is a specific
refutation of your theory
344
00:18:45,698 --> 00:18:47,939
in an article by Dr Michael Sedora,
345
00:18:47,940 --> 00:18:51,610
an expert in borderline
personality disorders
346
00:18:51,611 --> 00:18:54,102
of some 22 years' standing.
347
00:18:54,103 --> 00:18:57,428
It's page 72, my Lord, footnote five.
348
00:18:57,429 --> 00:18:59,284
See "Sadiq, Kingston,
349
00:18:59,285 --> 00:19:01,724
High-Functioning Personality Disorder
350
00:19:01,725 --> 00:19:05,197
And The Disguise Of
Pathological Trait Domains."
351
00:19:05,198 --> 00:19:08,669
That is the name of your
PhD thesis, Dr Sadiq?
352
00:19:11,016 --> 00:19:12,037
Dr Sadiq?
353
00:19:13,603 --> 00:19:15,458
Yes, that's right.
354
00:19:17,711 --> 00:19:21,672
"I find no clinical
evidence that the so-called
355
00:19:21,674 --> 00:19:25,729
high-functioning individual
is able to disguise traits
356
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:29,055
such as compulsivity or antagonism
357
00:19:29,056 --> 00:19:32,517
from family members or
medical professionals."
358
00:19:32,518 --> 00:19:35,354
They're missing the
fundamental point of my thesis,
359
00:19:35,355 --> 00:19:39,024
which is that personality is not
a binary concept but a spectrum.
360
00:19:39,025 --> 00:19:43,425
"I discount entirely the existence
of a high-functioning category
361
00:19:43,426 --> 00:19:45,479
separate from the current definition
362
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:46,699
of personality disorders."
363
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:49,827
There's a group of
individuals, like Mr Costley,
364
00:19:49,828 --> 00:19:52,226
who have significant
personality pathology,
365
00:19:52,227 --> 00:19:55,010
which may fall short of the current
diagnosis of personality dis...
366
00:19:55,011 --> 00:19:56,428
Fall short?
367
00:20:04,344 --> 00:20:05,417
Indeed.
368
00:20:07,828 --> 00:20:12,072
"A subcategory of high-functioning
personality disorder...
369
00:20:13,137 --> 00:20:15,617
remains unsubsta ntiated."
370
00:20:23,364 --> 00:20:25,563
No further questions, my Lord.
371
00:20:28,004 --> 00:20:29,369
Mad or bad?
372
00:20:30,642 --> 00:20:33,568
Right now, the jury thinks
you're as sane as I am.
373
00:20:34,778 --> 00:20:36,528
They think you're a murderer.
374
00:21:21,435 --> 00:21:23,196
Yeah, OK, I'll come down.
375
00:21:25,585 --> 00:21:28,765
They were a bit worried
because her waters had broken
376
00:21:28,766 --> 00:21:31,653
and nothing was happening,
so they induced her
377
00:21:31,654 --> 00:21:34,969
and it was all fast
and furious after that.
378
00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:37,756
But Carrie's OK? The baby's OK?
379
00:21:38,735 --> 00:21:42,877
- Who does he look like?
- Oh, my nose maybe. Poor bugger!
380
00:21:44,751 --> 00:21:48,515
You did tell Carrie that they
wouldn't let me call the hospital?
381
00:21:48,516 --> 00:21:50,475
I'll give her all your love.
382
00:21:50,476 --> 00:21:53,750
And Sathnam. She knows you're
thinking about her, love.
383
00:21:53,751 --> 00:21:55,209
Oh, God...
384
00:21:56,879 --> 00:21:59,172
I really wish I could have been there.
385
00:21:59,173 --> 00:22:00,538
I know.
386
00:22:02,353 --> 00:22:05,137
- Oh, bloody hell!
- Oh, aye, come on, now...
387
00:22:05,138 --> 00:22:06,847
Hm?
388
00:22:06,848 --> 00:22:10,465
Home straight. Just remember
everything Robert's told you
389
00:22:10,466 --> 00:22:13,395
about making a good impression
390
00:22:13,396 --> 00:22:18,057
and we'll get home and
see that baby, yeah?
391
00:22:20,143 --> 00:22:21,654
Yeah.
392
00:22:22,729 --> 00:22:24,980
You will tell Carrie that
I love her, won't you?
393
00:22:28,406 --> 00:22:31,679
- What are they going to call him?
- Oh, I don't think they've decided yet.
394
00:22:32,802 --> 00:22:34,631
I'm keen on Gary Junior.
395
00:22:40,237 --> 00:22:42,530
Von, I want to be there tomorrow.
396
00:22:43,605 --> 00:22:45,273
For all of it.
397
00:22:45,274 --> 00:22:47,619
When you're questioned.
398
00:22:47,620 --> 00:22:48,993
- But we agreed.
- Yeah.
399
00:22:50,446 --> 00:22:53,621
Yeah. It's important, though.
400
00:22:55,388 --> 00:23:01,091
I've been thinking and I'm so
sorry about all the shite over Rosa.
401
00:23:02,083 --> 00:23:03,792
No more secrets.
402
00:23:05,467 --> 00:23:07,468
Nowhere we can't go together.
403
00:23:08,753 --> 00:23:12,224
That's how all this happened
in the first place, and I just...
404
00:23:14,701 --> 00:23:19,288
I just wish you'd been
able to trust me with it.
405
00:23:28,288 --> 00:23:30,143
Oh, I'm sorry.
406
00:23:41,309 --> 00:23:42,424
OK.
407
00:24:06,755 --> 00:24:08,663
What about me?
408
00:24:08,664 --> 00:24:11,155
What did you think the
first time you saw me?
409
00:24:13,033 --> 00:24:14,638
You were just so...
410
00:24:15,609 --> 00:24:19,487
so comfortable in your own world.
411
00:24:22,501 --> 00:24:24,304
In that committee room.
412
00:24:24,305 --> 00:24:26,212
Just owning it.
413
00:24:29,342 --> 00:24:30,547
I loved that.
414
00:25:08,936 --> 00:25:10,551
All rise.
415
00:25:37,434 --> 00:25:41,834
Dr Carmichael, can you give us some
idea of the kind of work involved
416
00:25:41,835 --> 00:25:44,722
in appearing at a House of
Commons Select Committee?
417
00:25:44,723 --> 00:25:47,652
Erm... well, it doesn't
really involve any extra work,
418
00:25:47,653 --> 00:25:49,363
apart from turning up.
419
00:25:50,438 --> 00:25:53,033
You're called to answer
questions that cover your field.
420
00:25:53,034 --> 00:25:55,275
Your field being?
421
00:25:55,276 --> 00:25:59,039
The human genome and
genetic engineering.
422
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,564
And it was at the last of these
occasions that you met Mark Costley?
423
00:26:02,565 --> 00:26:04,514
That's correct.
424
00:26:04,517 --> 00:26:07,019
Can you tell me your
impressions of him?
425
00:26:08,186 --> 00:26:10,280
He was pleasant.
426
00:26:10,282 --> 00:26:13,184
Er, knowledgeable. I liked him.
427
00:26:14,098 --> 00:26:18,842
He gave me a guided tour of
the Great Hall of Westminster,
428
00:26:18,843 --> 00:26:20,646
the Crypt Chapel.
429
00:26:22,065 --> 00:26:24,212
We met for coffee a few times.
430
00:26:24,213 --> 00:26:27,152
I work... I worked nearby.
431
00:26:27,153 --> 00:26:29,499
Did you meet purely as friends?
432
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:31,063
Yes.
433
00:26:31,064 --> 00:26:35,063
His niece was considering
a career in science and...
434
00:26:36,048 --> 00:26:38,341
Well, it's a bit of
a hobby-horse of mine,
435
00:26:38,342 --> 00:26:41,230
getting women and girls into
science as a career, so...
436
00:26:43,285 --> 00:26:45,140
My own daughter's a scientist.
437
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:50,323
So we talked about that
and I gave him some advice.
438
00:26:50,324 --> 00:26:52,377
Dr Carmichael, we now have to discuss
439
00:26:52,378 --> 00:26:54,817
the events that have led, indirectly,
440
00:26:54,818 --> 00:26:56,819
to you being here,
441
00:26:56,820 --> 00:27:00,292
in a position you never would
have imagined yourself to be in.
442
00:27:28,249 --> 00:27:29,666
It didn't seem real.
443
00:27:32,014 --> 00:27:34,025
Although it was...
444
00:27:34,026 --> 00:27:37,445
the most, most shocking thing
that's ever happened to me.
445
00:27:40,334 --> 00:27:42,387
When it was over...
446
00:27:42,388 --> 00:27:46,151
he acted as if it was completely normal.
447
00:27:46,152 --> 00:27:48,546
And I got in the cab with him because...
448
00:27:50,915 --> 00:27:52,280
I didn't know what else to do.
449
00:27:53,723 --> 00:27:56,756
Some people will find
it hard to understand
450
00:27:56,757 --> 00:27:58,758
why you didn't even tell your husband
451
00:27:58,759 --> 00:28:00,667
about this horrific, vicious attack.
452
00:28:04,088 --> 00:28:07,851
I would have found it hard,
before it happened to me.
453
00:28:07,852 --> 00:28:09,561
To understand, I mean.
454
00:28:11,721 --> 00:28:13,618
But it seemed so clear.
455
00:28:19,438 --> 00:28:21,543
I didn't want what he did...
456
00:28:23,264 --> 00:28:26,976
in my life, in my home.
457
00:28:32,191 --> 00:28:34,588
I didn't want to be
sitting in my kitchen,
458
00:28:34,589 --> 00:28:38,007
having a meal with my
husband and wonder...
459
00:28:40,460 --> 00:28:44,778
two years later, five
years later, whatever...
460
00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:51,658
wonder if he was
thinking about it, or...
461
00:28:54,485 --> 00:28:58,061
for him to raise it, or talk about it...
462
00:28:59,918 --> 00:29:02,159
when I wasn't ready.
463
00:29:02,201 --> 00:29:04,119
I wasn't ready.
464
00:29:18,197 --> 00:29:22,649
George Selway treated me as
a collection of holes and...
465
00:29:25,330 --> 00:29:30,856
at least, by not telling Gary,
I had control over that one thing.
466
00:29:36,529 --> 00:29:41,023
What was your intention when
you went to see Mark Costley
467
00:29:41,024 --> 00:29:44,057
to ask his advice about George Selway?
468
00:29:44,058 --> 00:29:46,351
I just wanted it to stop.
469
00:29:47,478 --> 00:29:50,898
E-mailing me, texting, following me.
470
00:29:53,099 --> 00:29:57,112
When George turned
up near my house, I...
471
00:29:57,113 --> 00:29:59,208
I was just so frightened.
472
00:30:01,358 --> 00:30:02,879
To be clear...
473
00:30:04,048 --> 00:30:08,061
did you wish George
Selway physical harm?
474
00:30:08,062 --> 00:30:09,865
No.
475
00:30:09,866 --> 00:30:14,558
Did you encourage or urge Mr Mark
Costley to kill George Selway?
476
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:15,632
No!
477
00:30:17,103 --> 00:30:19,740
While you were waiting, in the car,
478
00:30:19,741 --> 00:30:23,067
were you aware of what was taking
place in George Selway's flat?
479
00:30:25,018 --> 00:30:26,685
No.
480
00:30:28,146 --> 00:30:31,910
I suggest, given the very
obvious distress of the witness,
481
00:30:31,911 --> 00:30:34,162
we'll adjourn for a short break.
482
00:30:55,081 --> 00:30:58,260
Dr Carmichael, I have
no wish to distress you.
483
00:30:58,261 --> 00:31:01,243
But could I ask you a few more questions
484
00:31:01,244 --> 00:31:03,829
about the night you
claim you were attacked
485
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:06,373
by the victim in this case?
486
00:31:06,374 --> 00:31:07,885
Of course.
487
00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:11,754
Now, earlier on that
day, the day of the party,
488
00:31:11,755 --> 00:31:15,028
- you were working at home?
- Yes, that's right.
489
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:19,428
And then you got into your party
dress and took the Tube into town.
490
00:31:19,429 --> 00:31:21,868
- Is that correct?
- That's correct.
491
00:31:24,656 --> 00:31:29,491
Now, you've said you were at the
party with Mr Selway for some hours,
492
00:31:29,492 --> 00:31:31,889
drinking with him,
before you went with him
493
00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:34,820
up to his secluded
office on the fifth floor,
494
00:31:34,821 --> 00:31:36,634
an area of the building you knew
495
00:31:36,635 --> 00:31:38,834
would be empty at that time of night.
496
00:31:38,835 --> 00:31:39,852
Well, as I said,
497
00:31:39,855 --> 00:31:42,793
he mentioned something about getting
some papers from his office.
498
00:31:42,796 --> 00:31:44,591
Yes. Just to establish,
499
00:31:44,595 --> 00:31:47,875
when you were drinking
and smoking with Mr Selway,
500
00:31:47,876 --> 00:31:51,108
you were, for a time,
seated together outside
501
00:31:51,111 --> 00:31:53,234
in a small courtyard in the
middle of the building?
502
00:31:53,237 --> 00:31:55,018
Yes. I wasn't smoking.
503
00:31:56,576 --> 00:31:58,681
You were keeping him company, then.
504
00:32:00,183 --> 00:32:03,079
When you were seated together outside,
505
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,594
can you recall placing your
hand on Mr Selway's knee?
506
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:08,615
No, I can't.
507
00:32:08,618 --> 00:32:10,869
Can you recall him placing
his hand on your knee?
508
00:32:16,083 --> 00:32:19,064
He may have done, yes.
509
00:32:19,065 --> 00:32:22,922
I think he did, just on
my knee, to steady himself.
510
00:32:24,686 --> 00:32:26,249
Er...
511
00:32:26,250 --> 00:32:30,451
We were all laughing, in a group.
512
00:32:30,452 --> 00:32:33,194
It wasn't just the two of us and...
513
00:32:33,195 --> 00:32:35,884
I was a bit unsteady
and so was he, and...
514
00:32:37,595 --> 00:32:40,722
I put my hand on his
knee, just to steady myself.
515
00:32:40,723 --> 00:32:42,672
So you put your hand on his knee?
516
00:32:46,255 --> 00:32:48,585
Or he did on mine. He...
517
00:32:48,586 --> 00:32:52,129
He was filling up my glass.
It could have been both.
518
00:32:53,477 --> 00:32:55,478
You were flirting, weren't you?
519
00:32:55,479 --> 00:32:57,824
No, I wouldn't say that.
520
00:32:57,825 --> 00:33:01,640
We were talking, joking,
in a group of people.
521
00:33:01,641 --> 00:33:03,934
Well, let's not get into
a detailed discussion
522
00:33:03,935 --> 00:33:07,407
on the definition of
flirting, Dr Carmichael.
523
00:33:07,408 --> 00:33:11,661
Did you, or did you not, tell
George Selway you were promiscuous?
524
00:33:11,662 --> 00:33:13,278
No! Absolutely not!
525
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:15,918
- Well, you seem very certain about that.
- I am.
526
00:33:15,921 --> 00:33:19,732
And if anybody thinks they heard
me say that, they're mistaken.
527
00:33:19,733 --> 00:33:22,120
Or drunk. There was a lot of
drinking going on that night.
528
00:33:22,121 --> 00:33:24,373
Yes, I'm not talking about the party.
529
00:33:24,374 --> 00:33:27,157
Do you remember the occasion you
spent two days with George Selway,
530
00:33:27,158 --> 00:33:29,259
a month or so before he was killed?
531
00:33:29,262 --> 00:33:32,100
You're talking about when we interviewed
for the junior research fellowship.
532
00:33:32,101 --> 00:33:33,507
- Of course I remember.
- Good.
533
00:33:33,508 --> 00:33:36,490
Then you might also remember
telling George Selway,
534
00:33:36,491 --> 00:33:40,212
in front of a room full of
people, you were promiscuous.
535
00:33:41,673 --> 00:33:43,049
No.
536
00:33:44,165 --> 00:33:46,855
Absolutely not. I said no such thing.
537
00:33:46,856 --> 00:33:48,033
Really?
538
00:33:48,034 --> 00:33:52,527
Did you or did you not describe
yourself as "really easy"?
539
00:33:55,459 --> 00:33:58,002
- That's ridiculous!
- Oh, so you do remember?
540
00:33:58,003 --> 00:34:01,526
"I like to pretend I'm
classy, but I'm really easy."
541
00:34:01,527 --> 00:34:03,675
I... I was talking
about the coffee machine!
542
00:34:03,676 --> 00:34:05,239
He'd brought us some coffees.
543
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,023
I'm not asking you for the context
of the comment, Dr Carmichael.
544
00:34:08,024 --> 00:34:10,129
I'm sure you were bantering
away with Mr Selway
545
00:34:10,130 --> 00:34:11,203
on all manner of subjects.
546
00:34:11,204 --> 00:34:13,643
Just please answer the
question, "really easy",
547
00:34:13,644 --> 00:34:16,626
- did you use that exact phrase?
- That is ludicrous.
548
00:34:16,627 --> 00:34:19,024
- You can take anything out of context.
- Yes or no?
549
00:34:19,025 --> 00:34:21,078
You're trying to create
a false impression
550
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:23,279
- of the kind of relationship
that we had. - Yes or no?
551
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,281
Not in the way that you mean!
552
00:34:36,446 --> 00:34:38,102
This is why...
553
00:34:39,416 --> 00:34:43,102
This is why I didn't want to bring
this to court in the first place.
554
00:34:53,881 --> 00:34:56,862
It's not the only reason,
is it, Dr Carmichael?
555
00:35:03,643 --> 00:35:07,166
Why didn't you report the
alleged rape by George Selway?
556
00:35:08,403 --> 00:35:11,672
Often these cases are conducted as if...
557
00:35:11,673 --> 00:35:13,831
the victim has committed a crime.
558
00:35:15,146 --> 00:35:17,293
And I felt that I'd been through enough.
559
00:35:17,294 --> 00:35:18,763
Well, this isn't a rape trial.
560
00:35:18,764 --> 00:35:20,577
And you have been charged with a crime,
561
00:35:20,579 --> 00:35:22,621
the most serious crime there is.
562
00:35:22,622 --> 00:35:24,822
Now, forgive me, you
said it was eight years
563
00:35:24,823 --> 00:35:27,168
you worked for the Beaufort Institute.
564
00:35:27,169 --> 00:35:29,024
Erm...
565
00:35:29,025 --> 00:35:33,091
Full time, yes. And
more recently part time.
566
00:35:33,092 --> 00:35:34,352
Of course.
567
00:35:34,353 --> 00:35:38,023
And during those eight
years, you commuted every day?
568
00:35:38,024 --> 00:35:40,275
The Tube to St James's and then a walk?
569
00:35:41,496 --> 00:35:42,569
Yes.
570
00:35:43,749 --> 00:35:46,678
And lunch hours, coffee breaks,
571
00:35:46,679 --> 00:35:49,596
plenty of places to eat around there.
572
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,987
- Pubs after work, so on.
- My Lord, really!
573
00:35:52,988 --> 00:35:57,476
- Forgive me, my Lord, I am getting there.
- Then do, please, Ms Bonnard.
574
00:35:59,046 --> 00:36:01,735
Dr Carmichael, in your
professional capacity,
575
00:36:01,737 --> 00:36:05,051
you have been working in or
visiting the Borough of Westminster
576
00:36:05,053 --> 00:36:07,700
for, what, around 12 years? Longer?
577
00:36:07,701 --> 00:36:09,358
Erm...
578
00:36:09,359 --> 00:36:10,724
longer, probably.
579
00:36:10,725 --> 00:36:15,125
So it's fair to say you are
very familiar with the area.
580
00:36:15,126 --> 00:36:19,327
What with all the commuting
and lunch hours, walking, so on?
581
00:36:20,892 --> 00:36:22,361
It...
582
00:36:22,362 --> 00:36:23,832
Yes.
583
00:36:25,439 --> 00:36:27,252
You know it intimately...
584
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:31,308
this little corner of St James.
585
00:36:32,821 --> 00:36:35,021
The highways and byways.
586
00:36:36,388 --> 00:36:38,055
The shops and cafes.
587
00:36:43,134 --> 00:36:44,989
The side streets.
588
00:36:44,990 --> 00:36:47,197
The back alleyways.
589
00:36:59,232 --> 00:37:03,089
You're familiar, Dr Carmichael...
590
00:37:03,090 --> 00:37:06,603
with a small alleyway
called Apple Tree Yard?
591
00:37:20,441 --> 00:37:22,442
Apple Tree Yard...
592
00:37:23,664 --> 00:37:27,677
is the alleyway in the
Borough of Westminster,
593
00:37:27,678 --> 00:37:30,222
St James to be precise,
594
00:37:30,223 --> 00:37:34,518
where you had intercourse
with your lover, Mark Costley,
595
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:36,030
in a public street,
596
00:37:36,031 --> 00:37:39,992
quite quickly, I imagine, during
rush hour, standing up in a doorway.
597
00:37:39,993 --> 00:37:42,537
Isn't that the case, Dr Carmichael?
598
00:37:52,016 --> 00:37:53,538
It...
599
00:37:55,833 --> 00:37:57,010
It wasn't rush hour.
600
00:37:58,669 --> 00:38:01,598
Well, I apologise for any
inaccuracy as to timings,
601
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:05,123
but you will forgive me for
doubting the absolute credibility
602
00:38:05,124 --> 00:38:07,709
of any account you're
willing to give this court.
603
00:38:07,710 --> 00:38:11,234
You know, you are facing
a charge of murder.
604
00:38:11,235 --> 00:38:14,216
Don't you think it's time
you started telling the truth?
605
00:38:14,217 --> 00:38:16,218
You've lied, haven't you?
606
00:38:17,491 --> 00:38:20,024
You have lied to your husband
607
00:38:20,025 --> 00:38:21,692
and you've lied to the police
608
00:38:21,693 --> 00:38:24,821
and you have lied to this
court! Well, haven't you?
609
00:38:34,551 --> 00:38:35,968
Yes.
610
00:38:39,681 --> 00:38:41,338
I beg your pardon?
611
00:38:43,300 --> 00:38:44,863
Yes.
612
00:38:52,486 --> 00:38:56,302
Did you ask my client
to kill George Selway?
613
00:38:56,303 --> 00:38:57,616
No.
614
00:38:57,617 --> 00:39:00,744
- Are you telling the truth?
- Yes!
615
00:39:00,745 --> 00:39:03,434
Did you tell him you
were raped, Dr Carmichael?
616
00:39:03,435 --> 00:39:05,051
Isaid... Yes.
617
00:39:05,052 --> 00:39:07,345
- And were you raped? Is
that the truth? - Yes! Yes!
618
00:39:07,346 --> 00:39:08,763
Yes!
619
00:39:35,028 --> 00:39:37,916
As you went to the party that night...
620
00:39:40,495 --> 00:39:43,810
after you had had sex with my client...
621
00:39:50,610 --> 00:39:52,570
were you wearing underwear?
622
00:40:17,983 --> 00:40:20,766
Please, at least tell
me that the sex was good.
623
00:40:30,892 --> 00:40:31,913
Why?
624
00:40:33,451 --> 00:40:35,317
Why with someone like that?
625
00:40:36,565 --> 00:40:40,495
He didn't seem... the way
he sounds in court. He...
626
00:40:41,205 --> 00:40:43,008
He made me feel...
627
00:40:44,573 --> 00:40:49,223
- Gary wants to talk to you so much
- I can't.... I can't.
628
00:40:49,224 --> 00:40:51,861
No. No, it wouldjust finish me off.
629
00:40:53,606 --> 00:40:54,825
Think about it.
630
00:40:56,012 --> 00:40:58,462
Isn't it going to do
more damage this way?
631
00:40:58,463 --> 00:41:02,758
Damage? Suse, the damage is done.
632
00:41:02,759 --> 00:41:05,250
You saw the jury's faces.
I'm going to prison.
633
00:41:05,251 --> 00:41:07,305
- You don't know that.
- Yes, I do.
634
00:41:07,306 --> 00:41:09,557
- The trial isn't over yet.
- Yes, it is. It is.
635
00:41:09,558 --> 00:41:11,069
It is for me.
636
00:41:17,112 --> 00:41:20,489
You know, the one thing that Gary's
always said that he couldn't bear...
637
00:41:21,633 --> 00:41:22,852
is humiliation.
638
00:41:22,853 --> 00:41:23,874
Didn't you think?
639
00:41:25,783 --> 00:41:27,253
What?
640
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:33,241
If you were having this thing
with Mark Costley, then...
641
00:41:34,438 --> 00:41:38,108
surely your marriage was over anyway?
642
00:41:38,109 --> 00:41:41,080
Do you really think that
it's that cut and dried?
643
00:41:41,081 --> 00:41:43,822
God, Suse, I'd expect that from
Carrie, but you, of all people...
644
00:41:43,823 --> 00:41:45,970
I am trying to understand.
645
00:41:45,971 --> 00:41:49,933
You should know that a marriage is
not what it seems from the outside.
646
00:41:51,102 --> 00:41:54,531
What, Jay? Well, Jay's a
bit different from Gary.
647
00:41:54,533 --> 00:41:57,264
Well, you've always held Gary
up as some kind of shining star.
648
00:41:57,265 --> 00:41:59,224
Because he is a good man!
649
00:42:08,068 --> 00:42:10,027
Yes, he is.
650
00:42:11,540 --> 00:42:12,665
Of course he is.
651
00:42:22,885 --> 00:42:24,542
When I started my degree...
652
00:42:26,650 --> 00:42:29,621
I was going to dedicate
my life to science.
653
00:42:31,926 --> 00:42:33,489
And then...
654
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:38,380
the first week of the
first term, there he was.
655
00:42:38,381 --> 00:42:40,426
So specific.
656
00:42:42,481 --> 00:42:44,534
There, in the lab...
657
00:42:46,006 --> 00:42:49,133
being so bloody
certain about everything.
658
00:42:50,886 --> 00:42:52,939
With his shirt tucked in.
659
00:42:54,556 --> 00:42:56,265
And his thousand-yard stare.
660
00:42:59,051 --> 00:43:00,760
30 years, nearly.
661
00:43:04,379 --> 00:43:06,922
Don't you think that's
worth fighting for?
662
00:43:51,314 --> 00:43:53,211
Ladies and gentlemen,
663
00:43:53,212 --> 00:43:55,661
the dramatic revelations
of the last days
664
00:43:55,662 --> 00:43:58,737
have served only to strengthen
the prosecution's case,
665
00:43:58,739 --> 00:44:01,918
that it is beyond reasonable doubt
666
00:44:01,919 --> 00:44:04,754
that Mark Costley and Yvonne
Carmichael are both guilty
667
00:44:04,755 --> 00:44:06,902
of the murder of George Selway.
668
00:44:06,903 --> 00:44:10,124
Whose idea was it to drive
to Selway's flat that day?
669
00:44:11,690 --> 00:44:15,067
Yvonne Carmichael has
admitted it was her idea.
670
00:44:15,068 --> 00:44:17,121
Tragically...
671
00:44:17,123 --> 00:44:20,834
Mr Costley's already marked
tendencies as a fantasist
672
00:44:20,835 --> 00:44:23,378
and his inability to tell the difference
673
00:44:23,379 --> 00:44:26,600
between reality and a
story of his own invention
674
00:44:26,601 --> 00:44:30,073
found its flashpoint at
that unbearable moment
675
00:44:30,074 --> 00:44:33,889
when he confronted the man he
believed to have raped his lover.
676
00:44:35,110 --> 00:44:40,678
Yvonne Carmichael had suffered
a brutal and degrading rape
677
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:42,294
at the hands of George Selway,
678
00:44:42,295 --> 00:44:48,060
who then added to this quite
devastating trauma by stalking her.
679
00:44:48,061 --> 00:44:50,605
She just wanted it to stop.
680
00:44:50,606 --> 00:44:53,681
There is no evidence
that she wanted him dead.
681
00:44:53,682 --> 00:44:56,861
There's no evidence
that she asked for it.
682
00:44:56,862 --> 00:44:59,155
Mark Costley was in his own world
683
00:44:59,156 --> 00:45:01,554
when he entered George Selway's flat,
684
00:45:01,555 --> 00:45:03,608
on a mission of his own making.
685
00:45:05,027 --> 00:45:06,934
It comes down to this...
686
00:45:06,935 --> 00:45:09,573
Does having an affair with Mark Costley,
687
00:45:09,574 --> 00:45:11,137
keeping it secret,
688
00:45:11,138 --> 00:45:15,483
make Dr Carmichael a murderer?
689
00:45:15,486 --> 00:45:16,997
Not...
690
00:45:16,998 --> 00:45:20,178
does it make her
unsavoury, inappropriate?
691
00:45:20,179 --> 00:45:22,923
Your private judgment
is your own concern.
692
00:45:25,017 --> 00:45:28,436
Does it make her... a murderer?
693
00:45:42,369 --> 00:45:44,422
It's time.
694
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,168
Courts aren't about the truth.
695
00:46:00,169 --> 00:46:02,462
They're about who tells the best story.
696
00:46:07,447 --> 00:46:10,522
You know all about that.
697
00:46:10,523 --> 00:46:12,431
You're the expert.
698
00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:23,234
You caught me so easily.
699
00:46:23,235 --> 00:46:26,414
But then, I think now...
700
00:46:26,415 --> 00:46:28,416
I was waiting to be caught.
701
00:46:55,352 --> 00:46:57,311
Madam Foreperson,
702
00:46:57,312 --> 00:47:01,566
has the jury reached verdicts
upon which you are all agreed?
703
00:47:01,567 --> 00:47:03,026
Yes.
704
00:47:04,205 --> 00:47:06,352
Would the defendants please stand?
705
00:47:12,954 --> 00:47:16,425
Do you find the defendant
Mark Liam Costley
706
00:47:16,426 --> 00:47:21,159
guilty or not guilty of
the murder of George Selway?
707
00:47:22,234 --> 00:47:25,122
We find the defendant not guilty.
708
00:47:29,961 --> 00:47:32,890
Do you find the defendant
Yvonne Carmichael
709
00:47:32,891 --> 00:47:37,249
guilty or not guilty of
the murder of George Selway?
710
00:47:39,638 --> 00:47:41,014
Not guilty.
711
00:47:44,185 --> 00:47:47,124
Upon count two of this indictment,
712
00:47:47,125 --> 00:47:50,398
do you find the defendant
Mark Liam Costley
713
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,621
guilty or not guilty of manslaughter?
714
00:47:54,946 --> 00:47:56,259
Guilty.
715
00:48:02,662 --> 00:48:05,790
Do you find the defendant
Yvonne Carmichael
716
00:48:05,791 --> 00:48:08,188
guilty or not guilty of manslaughter?
717
00:48:10,535 --> 00:48:12,046
We find the defendant...
718
00:48:19,455 --> 00:48:21,216
not guilty.
719
00:49:22,236 --> 00:49:23,611
Congratulations.
720
00:50:31,413 --> 00:50:33,028
Dear X...
721
00:50:34,431 --> 00:50:35,702
Dear Mark...
722
00:50:37,378 --> 00:50:41,245
with good behaviour and the
all clear from your psychiatrist,
723
00:50:41,246 --> 00:50:43,341
you'll be free in five years.
724
00:50:48,966 --> 00:50:51,655
They found me guilty of perjury.
725
00:50:51,658 --> 00:50:53,367
Suspended sentence.
726
00:50:54,635 --> 00:50:57,857
Sounds about right, "suspended."
727
00:50:59,182 --> 00:51:01,183
Hanging above me,
728
00:51:01,184 --> 00:51:04,019
a sword that could fall
on my neck at any time.
729
00:51:04,957 --> 00:51:07,002
And of course...
730
00:51:07,003 --> 00:51:09,546
my good behaviour has
to last a lifetime.
731
00:51:27,441 --> 00:51:30,370
When do you think Carrie
will be ready to see me?
732
00:51:31,987 --> 00:51:34,718
I think that's best discussed
between you and her, don't you?
733
00:51:36,138 --> 00:51:38,879
You can do no wrong in
her eyes, you know that.
734
00:51:39,850 --> 00:51:43,571
Yeah, well, we're all on a
learning curve, aren't we?
735
00:51:43,572 --> 00:51:44,885
Gary...
736
00:51:46,451 --> 00:51:48,358
Does she know about you and Rosa?
737
00:51:50,017 --> 00:51:53,196
There's nothing to tell any
more, is there? So, no point.
738
00:51:53,197 --> 00:51:56,324
Surely it's only fair that
she knows something about...
739
00:51:56,326 --> 00:51:59,401
what was going on with you and us?
740
00:51:59,402 --> 00:52:01,653
Oh, you really want to go there, do you?
741
00:52:02,874 --> 00:52:04,291
Jesus Christ...
742
00:52:04,292 --> 00:52:06,345
Fairness?
743
00:52:06,347 --> 00:52:08,306
Transparency?
744
00:52:10,455 --> 00:52:13,676
There were so many
opportunities to tell me.
745
00:52:13,677 --> 00:52:15,730
So many points.
746
00:52:17,442 --> 00:52:18,859
The rape.
747
00:52:20,184 --> 00:52:21,455
Him.
748
00:52:24,876 --> 00:52:27,753
I would have understood.
I know you would.
749
00:52:27,755 --> 00:52:29,808
So why? Because you had to win,
750
00:52:29,809 --> 00:52:32,404
you had to be the best at
everything, even marriage?
751
00:52:32,405 --> 00:52:34,156
Could you just not bear the thought
752
00:52:34,157 --> 00:52:36,753
of not having something to
hold against me for once?
753
00:52:36,754 --> 00:52:39,339
That we both might have
fucked up, even-stevens?
754
00:52:39,340 --> 00:52:41,831
- Is that what you think?
- Yes, that's what I think!
755
00:52:43,448 --> 00:52:47,211
I think you think I've been the bad one.
756
00:52:47,213 --> 00:52:48,974
That's how it's worked!
757
00:53:15,909 --> 00:53:17,274
I'm sorry.
758
00:53:18,350 --> 00:53:19,819
Iam.
759
00:53:21,968 --> 00:53:26,221
And I'll say it every day,
for as long as it takes.
760
00:54:23,126 --> 00:54:25,375
Thank you for agreeing to see me.
761
00:54:33,343 --> 00:54:35,198
Yvonne...
762
00:54:35,199 --> 00:54:37,159
in court...
763
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:38,869
when I, erm...
764
00:54:40,142 --> 00:54:42,581
I told my barrister about us...
765
00:54:44,490 --> 00:54:47,472
she just twisted everything.
766
00:54:49,715 --> 00:54:50,652
I'm so sorry.
767
00:54:55,346 --> 00:54:57,295
I think I understand.
768
00:54:59,058 --> 00:55:00,621
You panicked.
769
00:55:03,329 --> 00:55:06,112
Is... that what happened with George?
770
00:55:08,192 --> 00:55:10,058
I know you didn't mean to kill him.
771
00:55:10,059 --> 00:55:13,134
You wouldn't have let me
drive you to his house...
772
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,284
if you'd meant to kill him.
773
00:55:17,285 --> 00:55:18,994
Ijust wanted to teach him a lesson.
774
00:55:20,226 --> 00:55:21,643
For you.
775
00:55:24,032 --> 00:55:25,845
I wanted you to feel safe.
776
00:55:36,107 --> 00:55:37,775
I lied to you.
777
00:55:45,148 --> 00:55:48,724
Brilliant geneticist, one of the
country's leading scientists...
778
00:55:48,725 --> 00:55:49,892
I'm not.
779
00:55:51,217 --> 00:55:55,220
I haven't produced an original
piece of work for years.
780
00:55:57,421 --> 00:55:59,673
I was never anybody important.
781
00:56:04,425 --> 00:56:06,822
You made me feel important.
782
00:56:10,863 --> 00:56:13,406
I don't know what you want me to say.
783
00:56:15,117 --> 00:56:16,826
I'm sorry.
784
00:56:19,862 --> 00:56:21,477
Mark...
785
00:56:27,537 --> 00:56:29,339
The feelings...
786
00:56:30,905 --> 00:56:32,760
they were real.
787
00:56:34,137 --> 00:56:36,482
Mine were, at least.
788
00:56:36,483 --> 00:56:38,380
And mine, too.
789
00:56:40,738 --> 00:56:43,417
That's why I told her about us.
790
00:56:43,418 --> 00:56:45,575
Because how else would anyone know?
791
00:56:48,507 --> 00:56:49,819
How would they know?
792
00:56:53,543 --> 00:56:56,274
That it had been... real.
793
00:57:04,294 --> 00:57:07,369
It was just everything else that wasn't.
794
00:57:21,406 --> 00:57:25,701
If relationships are stories,
795
00:57:25,702 --> 00:57:27,857
there is no happy ending for ours.
796
00:57:30,009 --> 00:57:34,567
But life, as they say, goes on.
797
00:58:15,953 --> 00:58:17,860
Yvonne...
798
00:58:24,222 --> 00:58:26,025
What you said to me in the flat...
799
00:58:28,664 --> 00:58:29,737
The safe house.
800
00:58:31,897 --> 00:58:33,554
I never told them.
801
00:58:37,611 --> 00:58:38,935
I didn't.
802
00:58:48,216 --> 00:58:50,467
So what do you want?
803
00:58:52,575 --> 00:58:54,576
I want you to kill him.
804
00:58:59,136 --> 00:59:02,211
I want you to smash his fucking face in.
805
00:59:16,225 --> 00:59:18,090
People can say anything.
806
00:59:27,184 --> 00:59:29,967
You really can't tell
the difference, can you?
807
00:59:45,683 --> 00:59:53,089
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