1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,066 Oh, my God. 2 00:00:07,266 --> 00:00:08,333 Oh. 3 00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:13,266 Oh, my God, I haven't seen a picture of her in so long. 4 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:17,066 Oh! 5 00:00:20,066 --> 00:00:21,667 That's the face I remember. 6 00:00:23,500 --> 00:00:25,266 I hope her soul's at peace. 7 00:00:25,266 --> 00:00:27,367 Please, God, let her soul be at peace. 8 00:00:31,066 --> 00:00:33,500 I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. 9 00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:36,767 I'm so sorry. You trusted my mom. 10 00:00:36,834 --> 00:00:37,700 You trusted me. 11 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:40,867 We put you in just a bad place. 12 00:00:40,867 --> 00:00:42,166 I'm so sorry. 13 00:00:44,500 --> 00:00:46,667 I'm sure there's a part of her that 14 00:00:46,734 --> 00:00:48,533 thought I would protect her. 15 00:00:52,367 --> 00:00:53,533 I failed. 16 00:00:59,867 --> 00:01:01,266 [sniffles] 17 00:01:01,266 --> 00:01:03,767 [quietly] I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. 18 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:24,834 My entire idea 19 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:27,467 of what happened is just 20 00:01:27,467 --> 00:01:29,166 mud now, it's just... 21 00:01:29,166 --> 00:01:31,066 chaos. 22 00:01:32,367 --> 00:01:33,567 I mean, I know... 23 00:01:34,867 --> 00:01:38,166 that my mother is not innocent in this whole mess. 24 00:01:38,233 --> 00:01:41,867 It was such a confusing time, such a confusing time. 25 00:01:41,867 --> 00:01:44,166 I didn't know really what to believe. 26 00:01:44,166 --> 00:01:47,634 I thought that she was taken over by this man. 27 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:53,867 That's what I used to believe in my head, and it wasn't her 28 00:01:53,867 --> 00:01:55,667 that was the murderer. 29 00:01:55,734 --> 00:01:58,166 I believe she was taken advantage of. 30 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:02,667 I'm always gonna be wondering why, always. 31 00:02:04,066 --> 00:02:06,533 And I really, really, 32 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,367 still to this day, wish I did something. 33 00:02:11,767 --> 00:02:13,066 I wish I did something. 34 00:02:14,467 --> 00:02:17,767 I ask for forgiveness every night -- every night. 35 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,100 [The Paper Chase's "What's So Amazing About Grace?" plays] 36 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:26,467 [strings continue playing sinister tune] 37 00:02:26,467 --> 00:02:28,467 [static crackling] 38 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:33,266 -[knock at door] -[creaking] 39 00:02:33,266 --> 00:02:42,867 -[banging on door] -[creaking] 40 00:02:42,867 --> 00:02:46,367 [water dripping] 41 00:02:46,367 --> 00:02:49,266 -[banging on door] -[creaking] 42 00:02:49,333 --> 00:02:51,467 [sinister chord strikes] 43 00:03:01,166 --> 00:03:05,934 This is one of my favorite pictures of my mom. 44 00:03:07,266 --> 00:03:09,367 She does look happy-go-lucky. 45 00:03:09,367 --> 00:03:11,867 This is her best picture. 46 00:03:11,867 --> 00:03:14,266 Just so happens, it's in the worst place. 47 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,367 And the worst time. 48 00:03:18,367 --> 00:03:21,567 She looks pretty -- pretty okay 49 00:03:21,634 --> 00:03:24,567 for having somebody 50 00:03:24,634 --> 00:03:27,867 almost dead in the apartment. 51 00:03:27,867 --> 00:03:32,433 Yeah, when I think about that, it's hard -- I feel numb. 52 00:03:34,166 --> 00:03:35,734 There was torture in this house. 53 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,634 I know she did everything wrong. 54 00:03:42,166 --> 00:03:43,533 I know it. 55 00:03:44,700 --> 00:03:47,433 But I still love her. It's my mama. 56 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,066 This is a picture of my mom 57 00:04:13,066 --> 00:04:16,834 about 10 years old in her house at Christmas time. 58 00:04:19,266 --> 00:04:21,967 She seemed happy here, didn't she? 59 00:04:21,967 --> 00:04:24,266 But my mom's upbringing was a hard one. 60 00:04:24,333 --> 00:04:26,166 She just didn't feel very loved. 61 00:04:28,066 --> 00:04:30,934 Her parents used to tell her that she was ugly. 62 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:32,867 She'd never amount to anything. 63 00:04:32,867 --> 00:04:34,066 My mom... 64 00:04:36,166 --> 00:04:38,767 was just always searching for love, because 65 00:04:38,767 --> 00:04:40,233 she didn't get it from her parents. 66 00:04:47,166 --> 00:04:51,834 My mom was raped when she was in her early 20s. 67 00:04:52,700 --> 00:04:56,700 She was going to get an abortion 68 00:04:56,700 --> 00:04:59,166 but decided, you know, not to -- she decided 69 00:04:59,233 --> 00:05:01,166 she wanted to keep me. 70 00:05:01,166 --> 00:05:06,367 She was so needing something to love and love her back. 71 00:05:06,367 --> 00:05:08,667 It took her to a bad place. 72 00:05:08,734 --> 00:05:11,567 I mean, in the end, it was the worst place. 73 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:22,066 Before any of this happened, 74 00:05:22,066 --> 00:05:24,066 my mom was a single mom trying to raise me 75 00:05:24,066 --> 00:05:25,967 as best as she could. 76 00:05:25,967 --> 00:05:28,667 My mom never laid a hand on me ever, 77 00:05:28,667 --> 00:05:30,767 even though I was rotten child. 78 00:05:30,834 --> 00:05:32,367 AS MARY: Good morning. 79 00:05:32,433 --> 00:05:35,266 Oh, God, what the hell are you doing here? 80 00:05:35,333 --> 00:05:36,934 TAMMY: From what I remember, 81 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,166 my mom's only friend would have been Mary. 82 00:05:40,166 --> 00:05:44,166 I would say nasty things to Mary all the time. 83 00:05:44,166 --> 00:05:47,333 Just ignore her -- come and have some breakfast with us. 84 00:05:49,867 --> 00:05:52,867 TAMMY: My mom would say, "Oh, she's just a kid." 85 00:05:52,867 --> 00:05:54,567 She didn't tell me, 86 00:05:54,634 --> 00:05:56,066 "Don't speak that way 87 00:05:56,066 --> 00:05:58,467 to people, don't do this, don't do that." 88 00:05:58,467 --> 00:06:01,266 It was more like, "Eh, it's all right. 89 00:06:01,333 --> 00:06:02,567 It's not that bad." 90 00:06:02,634 --> 00:06:04,567 She never reprimanded me. 91 00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:08,767 If she would have given me rules 92 00:06:08,767 --> 00:06:11,266 or punished me, 93 00:06:11,266 --> 00:06:14,266 I may have been mad at her, and I think that's 94 00:06:14,266 --> 00:06:17,567 the last thing she wanted was for me to be mad at her. 95 00:06:18,767 --> 00:06:21,266 She just wanted me to love her. 96 00:06:21,333 --> 00:06:24,867 She was looking for love 97 00:06:24,867 --> 00:06:26,467 in every way she could. 98 00:06:27,667 --> 00:06:30,066 She went crazy because of it. 99 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:33,166 Because of her need for that love. 100 00:06:47,166 --> 00:06:49,500 I lived in a community where there were a lot of 101 00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:51,667 single parents, so it really wasn't 102 00:06:51,667 --> 00:06:53,934 out of the ordinary for there 103 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,033 not to be a dad in the picture. 104 00:06:56,967 --> 00:07:00,700 I remember I was nine years old, and we were watching TV, 105 00:07:00,700 --> 00:07:04,834 my mother and I, and I turned around, and I said to my mom, 106 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:06,033 "Who's my dad?" 107 00:07:07,266 --> 00:07:10,867 "That's him," and Billy Joel was on TV, and she said, 108 00:07:10,867 --> 00:07:13,600 "He's your dad," and I said, "He's my dad." 109 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,266 She said, "Yeah, that's why you can sing." 110 00:07:15,266 --> 00:07:16,767 Are you serious? 111 00:07:16,834 --> 00:07:18,266 TAMMY: She said when she was younger 112 00:07:18,266 --> 00:07:20,367 that she had an affair 113 00:07:20,433 --> 00:07:23,467 with Billy Joel, which resulted in me. 114 00:07:23,467 --> 00:07:26,166 I said, "Oh, my God, Billy Joel's my father? 115 00:07:26,233 --> 00:07:27,700 This is fantastic." 116 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:29,567 This is amazing. 117 00:07:29,634 --> 00:07:32,266 My mom even said that Billy Joel's hit song, 118 00:07:32,266 --> 00:07:34,066 "Big Shot," was about her. 119 00:07:34,066 --> 00:07:35,467 She's like, "Don't tell anybody." 120 00:07:35,533 --> 00:07:36,467 I was like, okay. 121 00:07:36,533 --> 00:07:37,700 People will treat you differently. 122 00:07:37,767 --> 00:07:40,467 I believed what my mom said -- I wouldn't have thought twice. 123 00:07:40,467 --> 00:07:42,834 If she says it's a secret, then it's a secret. 124 00:07:44,467 --> 00:07:47,266 Billy Joel obviously wasn't my father. 125 00:07:47,266 --> 00:07:52,066 My mom was very good at creating fantasy worlds. 126 00:07:52,133 --> 00:07:56,266 I think her making that fantasy world is just a way of, 127 00:07:56,266 --> 00:07:58,467 you know, feeling loved, feeling included, 128 00:07:58,467 --> 00:08:00,100 um, 129 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:04,433 and, you know, making me feel special all at once. 130 00:08:22,567 --> 00:08:28,266 When I was 11, we had a great group of neighborhood friends. 131 00:08:28,266 --> 00:08:29,867 [distant voices overlapping] 132 00:08:29,867 --> 00:08:34,000 Our house was the type of house that everybody came over. 133 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,767 I can remember standing around the kitchen table, 134 00:08:38,834 --> 00:08:42,066 all my friends around the table, and us singing songs 135 00:08:42,133 --> 00:08:45,667 to the top of our lungs, just screaming songs out. 136 00:08:45,667 --> 00:08:47,467 It was -- it was just so fun. 137 00:08:48,467 --> 00:08:51,533 Anybody was always welcome to stay at our house. 138 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:55,266 Theresa had no parents at all. 139 00:08:55,333 --> 00:08:57,700 She did have an elderly grandmother -- my mom, 140 00:08:57,700 --> 00:09:00,567 she saw that Theresa didn't have a loving family 141 00:09:00,634 --> 00:09:03,266 and a loving home, and she wanted to give that to her. 142 00:09:03,333 --> 00:09:05,700 Harriet was staying with us. 143 00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:07,567 Her parents had issues or what have you, 144 00:09:07,567 --> 00:09:10,467 and she wanted to give Harriet a loving home. 145 00:09:10,467 --> 00:09:12,467 My friend Luis had a great family. 146 00:09:12,467 --> 00:09:15,333 Luis didn't come from a broken family at all. 147 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:18,934 That's the summer that I met Ricky. 148 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:24,166 I was 11, and he was 14. 149 00:09:24,166 --> 00:09:26,767 He's very good-looking. Looked like a grown man. 150 00:09:30,266 --> 00:09:33,166 I do remember saying to her, "Mom, we're in love." 151 00:09:34,367 --> 00:09:38,000 We dated for a little bit, and all of a sudden, 152 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,467 he was getting very, 153 00:09:39,467 --> 00:09:40,967 "I don't want you to do this." 154 00:09:40,967 --> 00:09:43,667 -Very controlling. -What's your problem? 155 00:09:43,667 --> 00:09:45,667 You're acting like a child. 156 00:09:45,734 --> 00:09:48,266 And I was like, "Well, that's not happening." 157 00:09:48,266 --> 00:09:52,066 So we got into a fight, he broke up with me. 158 00:09:52,133 --> 00:09:53,066 Fine, who cares? 159 00:09:53,066 --> 00:09:54,834 I was out hanging with my friends. 160 00:09:56,367 --> 00:09:58,767 A lot of these kids would come by us, because their parents 161 00:09:58,834 --> 00:10:00,066 were strict or what have you, 162 00:10:00,066 --> 00:10:02,700 and my mom was always, like, welcoming. 163 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:06,066 She would scoop them up and put them under her wing. 164 00:10:06,066 --> 00:10:07,600 I know she loved that. 165 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,333 She loved being a mom. She really did. 166 00:10:11,967 --> 00:10:14,867 And she was super, super caring 167 00:10:14,867 --> 00:10:17,734 until...she wasn't. 168 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,166 So I want to ask you a question that I think 169 00:10:33,166 --> 00:10:36,100 might be hard to hear, okay? -Okay, yeah. 170 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:39,467 There were some reports that your mom's intentions 171 00:10:39,467 --> 00:10:42,266 were not necessarily pure, 172 00:10:42,266 --> 00:10:45,000 that it wasn't just to have the kids over, 173 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,700 that she was kind of luring them. 174 00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:51,166 I know a lot of people 175 00:10:51,166 --> 00:10:55,367 thought that my mom was grooming these children, 176 00:10:55,433 --> 00:10:57,266 but she absolutely was not. 177 00:10:57,266 --> 00:10:59,467 She wanted me to be the happiest person 178 00:10:59,467 --> 00:11:01,100 that I could be, 179 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:03,367 and it -- I can see 180 00:11:03,367 --> 00:11:07,667 where if you didn't know her past, 181 00:11:07,734 --> 00:11:10,500 I could see where you could say that 182 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:14,834 she was grooming these kids, but this is just who she was, 183 00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:18,467 and then she met Ricky, and something changed. 184 00:11:18,467 --> 00:11:19,734 A switch went off. 185 00:11:21,667 --> 00:11:24,000 And these poor kids 186 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,834 were, you know, taken advantage of. 187 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:31,367 How horrible for you to trust somebody 188 00:11:31,367 --> 00:11:32,934 and love somebody so much. 189 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,767 And then they take that trust 190 00:11:36,834 --> 00:11:39,233 and love and just use it against you. 191 00:11:40,266 --> 00:11:42,066 It's just... 192 00:11:42,066 --> 00:11:43,667 that's evil. 193 00:11:46,166 --> 00:11:47,567 That's evil. 194 00:11:56,166 --> 00:11:59,166 TAMMY: My mom was pretty great. 195 00:11:59,166 --> 00:12:00,467 I know I keep saying that, 196 00:12:00,467 --> 00:12:05,166 but to this day, I'm not sure what switch went off. 197 00:12:05,166 --> 00:12:08,934 She was wonderful, and then she was not. 198 00:12:10,567 --> 00:12:11,934 Like overnight. 199 00:12:12,967 --> 00:12:15,433 When Ricky came along, everything changed. 200 00:12:18,367 --> 00:12:21,233 Ricky started sleeping over on the couch. 201 00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:27,233 He ran away from home, which was maybe six blocks away. 202 00:12:28,266 --> 00:12:31,166 There's another, you know, bird with a broken wing 203 00:12:31,166 --> 00:12:33,233 who needs, you know, a place to stay. 204 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,767 Eventually, Ricky moved into the room with my mom. 205 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:49,166 My mom had told me it 206 00:12:49,166 --> 00:12:51,667 was because the couch was very uncomfortable. 207 00:12:52,867 --> 00:12:56,266 I was young, so I'm not even sure that I was aware 208 00:12:56,266 --> 00:12:59,767 that a relationship was happening, even at that point. 209 00:13:02,367 --> 00:13:05,266 If you ask me my feelings on it, 210 00:13:05,266 --> 00:13:07,367 normally, you'd think that I'd lose my mind. 211 00:13:07,367 --> 00:13:10,767 Oh, my God, my boyfriend is going with my mom. 212 00:13:10,767 --> 00:13:12,166 I didn't feel that way. 213 00:13:17,567 --> 00:13:20,867 I'm not sure if I ever wanted 214 00:13:20,934 --> 00:13:24,100 to know about their relationship. 215 00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:25,800 I don't know how that happened at all. 216 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,433 It just all of a sudden was happening. 217 00:13:30,266 --> 00:13:34,100 PRODUCER: So this is your mother speaking to detectives 218 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:35,767 about essentially 219 00:13:35,767 --> 00:13:38,166 how she was able to start the relationship 220 00:13:38,233 --> 00:13:39,867 that she was having with Ricky. 221 00:13:39,867 --> 00:13:42,467 She got him into her bed 222 00:13:42,533 --> 00:13:45,767 by saying that she suffered from the epilepsy. 223 00:13:45,834 --> 00:13:48,567 He began sleeping with her to help her 224 00:13:48,567 --> 00:13:50,667 if she got one of these spells. 225 00:13:50,667 --> 00:13:53,567 She was attracted to the young man sexually, 226 00:13:53,634 --> 00:13:55,467 and she told him this, 227 00:13:55,467 --> 00:13:56,967 and that at first he, you know, 228 00:13:56,967 --> 00:14:00,867 resisted her advances, but then she made the statement 229 00:14:00,934 --> 00:14:02,367 to him, "Well I have my needs, 230 00:14:02,367 --> 00:14:04,467 and if they can't be met, then I have to go 231 00:14:04,467 --> 00:14:06,266 somewhere else," and rather than her go 232 00:14:06,266 --> 00:14:08,767 somewhere else, they began to have sexual relations. 233 00:14:11,467 --> 00:14:13,367 TAMMY: I don't know what to think about this. 234 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,934 He could just leave, go home. 235 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,367 Go home. 236 00:14:21,367 --> 00:14:24,066 PRODUCER: I think that it looked very much to you like 237 00:14:24,133 --> 00:14:26,066 he was initiating, 238 00:14:26,133 --> 00:14:31,066 and when I read this, it said to me that I'm not sure he did. 239 00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:33,533 But he felt pressured. 240 00:14:35,467 --> 00:14:39,767 I can see where you can be threatened, 241 00:14:39,834 --> 00:14:42,767 I guess, into having sex with somebody. 242 00:14:42,767 --> 00:14:45,367 This is all really weird. 243 00:14:45,367 --> 00:14:47,600 Ricky had very loving parents who cared 244 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,066 about him, the parents were looking for him. 245 00:14:50,133 --> 00:14:52,066 That's the problem that keeps me from... 246 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,166 believing this fully. 247 00:14:57,266 --> 00:15:00,567 Being there, he appeared willing. 248 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:04,066 But I should have said something. 249 00:15:04,066 --> 00:15:05,767 Maybe she would have thought twice. 250 00:15:05,834 --> 00:15:08,967 Maybe she would have broken up with this man 251 00:15:08,967 --> 00:15:11,266 or gotten rid of this guy. -This kid. 252 00:15:11,266 --> 00:15:13,166 -I mean, he was a kid. -Yeah, he was a kid. Yeah. 253 00:15:26,266 --> 00:15:27,800 [phone ringing] 254 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,467 I'd be sitting just at the kitchen table, 255 00:15:29,467 --> 00:15:32,467 and the phone would ring, and my mother would pick it up. 256 00:15:32,533 --> 00:15:35,367 -[phone ringing] -She'd listen. 257 00:15:35,367 --> 00:15:36,367 AS MARIE: Hello? 258 00:15:36,367 --> 00:15:38,867 TAMMY: Okay, I understand, I understand. 259 00:15:38,934 --> 00:15:40,166 Hang up the phone, 260 00:15:41,066 --> 00:15:43,066 and then say, "Billy called." 261 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,367 Everybody in the house believed that 262 00:15:47,433 --> 00:15:49,667 the phone call was from Billy Joel. 263 00:15:49,734 --> 00:15:51,367 My mom said that Billy called because 264 00:15:51,433 --> 00:15:53,800 things needed to be taken care of. 265 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,867 Billy was a mob boss, he was in the mafia. 266 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,467 My mom would get instructions from Billy 267 00:16:00,533 --> 00:16:03,667 to tell us who had chores. 268 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,066 I didn't have any chores. 269 00:16:11,133 --> 00:16:12,934 What did he say? 270 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,467 Theresa, you're in the bathrooms. 271 00:16:15,533 --> 00:16:17,367 Harriet, you're doing the dusting. 272 00:16:17,433 --> 00:16:18,867 What about me? 273 00:16:18,867 --> 00:16:21,166 Billy didn't say you had to do anything. 274 00:16:21,166 --> 00:16:22,667 I am out the door. 275 00:16:22,667 --> 00:16:24,567 I'm just gonna go play with my friends. 276 00:16:28,166 --> 00:16:30,066 If they didn't do the chores correctly 277 00:16:30,066 --> 00:16:33,066 or in a certain kind of timeframe, 278 00:16:33,133 --> 00:16:36,166 Ricky was to enforce the beatings. 279 00:16:37,567 --> 00:16:39,567 She was so convincing that it was hard 280 00:16:39,634 --> 00:16:41,166 not to believe what she was saying. 281 00:16:43,367 --> 00:16:46,066 Later on, I found out about her little 282 00:16:46,133 --> 00:16:48,100 tricks from working at the phone company, 283 00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:51,800 and she would make that phone ring. 284 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,867 There wasn't anybody on the end of that line. 285 00:16:53,934 --> 00:16:55,467 [phone ringing] 286 00:16:55,467 --> 00:16:59,767 She was making this person up to everybody else, 287 00:16:59,834 --> 00:17:01,367 and why? 288 00:17:01,367 --> 00:17:03,100 Why were you doing that? 289 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,100 There was definitely a lot that went on 290 00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:07,066 in that house that I was not aware of. 291 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,767 That was all behind closed doors, 292 00:17:09,767 --> 00:17:12,367 what these punishments were and -- and what have you. 293 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,166 PRODUCER: This is Ricky -- he's on the stand, 294 00:17:16,166 --> 00:17:18,467 and the prosecutor is speaking with him. 295 00:17:18,467 --> 00:17:20,367 [quoting prosecutor] How often did these phone calls 296 00:17:20,367 --> 00:17:21,567 come into the house 297 00:17:21,567 --> 00:17:23,000 from this point on? 298 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,367 [quoting Ricky] A couple of times a day. 299 00:17:24,367 --> 00:17:28,000 Every time, like, a chore or punishment went on, 300 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,567 he told me to go into Tammy's bedroom, and I would find 301 00:17:30,567 --> 00:17:33,367 something to do the punishment with, so I did, 302 00:17:33,367 --> 00:17:34,934 and I found a bat. 303 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,100 I don't think I knew what these chores 304 00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:40,734 were that they had to do. 305 00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:43,333 So I just... 306 00:17:45,367 --> 00:17:48,467 I guess I feel like I removed myself 307 00:17:48,467 --> 00:17:51,166 each time that phone call would happen. 308 00:17:51,233 --> 00:17:53,266 It was like I could go and come whenever -- 309 00:17:53,266 --> 00:17:54,667 whenever I pleased. 310 00:17:54,734 --> 00:17:57,066 So to be honest, that's -- I hate to say it, 311 00:17:57,133 --> 00:17:58,767 but that's what it was. 312 00:17:58,767 --> 00:18:02,233 I was just selfish, and there was no empathy in me 313 00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:04,000 at that time -- I was just 314 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,667 a selfish little girl only worried about myself, and if it 315 00:18:06,667 --> 00:18:09,800 didn't involve me, then -- then 316 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,333 I'm out, I'm leaving. 317 00:18:18,867 --> 00:18:22,367 There was one day where Ricky came into my room. 318 00:18:24,467 --> 00:18:26,967 He put thumb cuffs on my thumbs. 319 00:18:26,967 --> 00:18:29,100 He put thumb cuffs on my toes. 320 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:31,767 AS TAMMY: What are you doing? 321 00:18:31,767 --> 00:18:37,266 They are these handcuffs, but tiny enough to put around 322 00:18:37,266 --> 00:18:39,934 your thumbs like little tiny handcuffs. 323 00:18:40,767 --> 00:18:43,066 AS TAMMY: Get these off of me, right now! 324 00:18:43,066 --> 00:18:44,767 TAMMY: He closed the door. He locked the door, 325 00:18:44,767 --> 00:18:47,233 and I was stuck there. 326 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:49,066 AS TAMMY: Where are you going? Come back! 327 00:18:49,133 --> 00:18:51,367 Somebody help! Mom! 328 00:18:51,367 --> 00:18:54,233 I started hearing Luis, 329 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,233 Harriet, "No. No. Please don't do this." 330 00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:00,266 "You have to do this." 331 00:19:00,266 --> 00:19:03,367 CHILD: Stop doing that! Why are doing this? 332 00:19:03,433 --> 00:19:04,467 TAMMY: You're doing it, you're doing it. 333 00:19:04,467 --> 00:19:07,266 CHILD: Please don't. Just stop! 334 00:19:07,266 --> 00:19:10,000 I start freaking out, you know, saying what's 335 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,467 happening out there, trying to get out of 336 00:19:11,467 --> 00:19:14,100 my thumb cuffs, so I couldn't get out of these thumb cuffs. 337 00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:17,700 Get these off! Get these off! 338 00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:22,166 I could hear them saying, "No, no, please, no, no," and crying. 339 00:19:22,233 --> 00:19:25,867 CHILD: No! Please! Somebody help! 340 00:19:25,934 --> 00:19:28,166 My thumbs now are raw from trying 341 00:19:28,166 --> 00:19:31,166 to wiggle my way out of these thumb cuffs. 342 00:19:34,867 --> 00:19:36,667 Eventually, the door opened, 343 00:19:36,734 --> 00:19:39,567 Ricky came in with my mother trailing behind him. 344 00:19:42,266 --> 00:19:43,867 The whole time, I'm cursing at him, 345 00:19:43,934 --> 00:19:45,934 "Take these off, take these off." 346 00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:48,867 He finally took these things off. 347 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:53,967 I learned later that my mom 348 00:19:53,967 --> 00:19:59,166 and Ricky were forcing Luis and Harriet 349 00:19:59,166 --> 00:20:01,467 to eat cat [bleep]. 350 00:20:03,367 --> 00:20:06,800 Just became something that was out of control. 351 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,467 Whatever this was that was happening, 352 00:20:08,533 --> 00:20:11,533 this torturing, it was crazy. 353 00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:15,467 I can't even imagine the other things that were happening, 354 00:20:15,467 --> 00:20:19,367 but I had more resentment towards Ricky. 355 00:20:19,367 --> 00:20:21,066 I was unhappy with my mom, 356 00:20:22,367 --> 00:20:25,066 but the resentment was towards Ricky. 357 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:28,533 Ricky seemed like he was getting a kick out of it. 358 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,166 PRODUCER: So there was testimony 359 00:20:32,233 --> 00:20:34,467 that they were told that there were cameras. 360 00:20:34,467 --> 00:20:37,367 Ricky believed he was being watched, he believed that if 361 00:20:37,367 --> 00:20:39,867 he kind of came up with his own punishments, got creative, 362 00:20:39,934 --> 00:20:42,166 that that made him look good in Billy's eyes. 363 00:20:42,233 --> 00:20:44,700 I see. Mm-hmm. I see. 364 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:47,166 PRODUCER: Does that make you feel any different about 365 00:20:47,233 --> 00:20:48,533 what -- what you witnessed? 366 00:20:52,467 --> 00:20:54,667 No. 367 00:20:54,734 --> 00:20:57,767 Even though I had this new information, uh, 368 00:20:57,834 --> 00:21:02,634 it doesn't make me feel any differently about Ricky. 369 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,333 It looked as if he enjoyed it. 370 00:21:08,567 --> 00:21:10,600 But I think 371 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,567 that I could understand his position 372 00:21:13,567 --> 00:21:17,166 in this fantasy world that was being created. 373 00:21:17,166 --> 00:21:19,767 It seems like day-by-day, 374 00:21:19,834 --> 00:21:22,734 I could see him being afraid. 375 00:21:24,066 --> 00:21:25,734 I could see all the kids being afraid. 376 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,066 [phone ringing] 377 00:21:37,133 --> 00:21:39,233 My understanding as to why they didn't 378 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:42,667 leave is they were frightened for their lives. 379 00:21:43,867 --> 00:21:47,066 That's probably one of the scare tactics, as well. 380 00:21:47,133 --> 00:21:48,266 Billy's in the mafia, 381 00:21:48,266 --> 00:21:51,934 and if you tell anybody outside of this little group 382 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,867 that we have here, we're gonna hurt people. 383 00:21:57,166 --> 00:21:59,367 They were being told, "If you say anything 384 00:21:59,433 --> 00:22:00,767 "or if you don't come back, 385 00:22:00,767 --> 00:22:02,066 we're gonna hurt your family." 386 00:22:04,767 --> 00:22:06,800 PRODUCER: I want to read you something. 387 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,133 So this is a court document from Luis. 388 00:22:12,066 --> 00:22:15,834 "Did you ever try to do anything to yourself, Luis?" 389 00:22:17,667 --> 00:22:19,066 "I tried to kill myself." 390 00:22:20,567 --> 00:22:23,567 "When?" "While I was going there. 391 00:22:23,567 --> 00:22:25,367 "I was just tired of all the beating 392 00:22:25,433 --> 00:22:27,066 "and everything that happened to me. 393 00:22:28,266 --> 00:22:30,166 "A phone call came, and you know, 394 00:22:30,233 --> 00:22:33,800 "Billy said to Marie that if I kill myself, it won't matter, 395 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,700 "because my family would still be killed. 396 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:39,467 So that's what stopped me from doing it." 397 00:22:39,533 --> 00:22:43,133 Wow. I had no idea. Wow. 398 00:22:45,166 --> 00:22:47,867 Wow. Oh, Luis. 399 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,867 I feel horrible. I feel horrible for him. 400 00:22:57,934 --> 00:22:59,867 I've said I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. 401 00:22:59,934 --> 00:23:01,667 I'm so sorry did any of that happen to you. 402 00:23:01,667 --> 00:23:02,934 I'm just so sorry. 403 00:23:05,166 --> 00:23:06,667 I'm sure they hate me. 404 00:23:06,667 --> 00:23:08,600 I was the one living my life, running outside, 405 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,934 playing with my friends while they were being tortured. 406 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,066 PRODUCER: Well, let's not forget also, you're kid. 407 00:23:15,133 --> 00:23:17,066 -You were a child. -I was a child. 408 00:23:18,967 --> 00:23:22,567 I mean, the stuff that I read and heard after the fact was 409 00:23:22,567 --> 00:23:24,166 just shocking, 410 00:23:24,233 --> 00:23:26,166 it was just shocking -- to this day, 411 00:23:26,233 --> 00:23:29,066 I'm just like, what? What? 412 00:23:37,667 --> 00:23:39,467 TAMMY: The phone calls eventually stopped, 413 00:23:39,467 --> 00:23:43,634 and then my mother started, um, 414 00:23:43,700 --> 00:23:45,467 [sighs] 415 00:23:45,467 --> 00:23:46,934 becoming Billy. 416 00:23:48,567 --> 00:23:50,967 My mom would put her hands over her face 417 00:23:51,033 --> 00:23:54,100 and kind of just sit like this. 418 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:56,734 Give it a couple minutes, and then... 419 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,634 up, already the attitude, the anger, the nastiness. 420 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,266 It was almost like she had a different voice. 421 00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:11,867 Everything about her changed, her demeanor changed. 422 00:24:11,867 --> 00:24:15,266 Her look on her face changed. 423 00:24:15,333 --> 00:24:18,567 She was meaner, she was nasty. 424 00:24:18,567 --> 00:24:22,100 She was completely the opposite of who she was normally. 425 00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:26,767 I am sick and tired of you filthy... 426 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:30,166 disgusting... 427 00:24:30,166 --> 00:24:31,433 creatures. 428 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:37,367 TAMMY: This thing took her over completely. 429 00:24:38,667 --> 00:24:41,967 We're gonna teach you how to behave. 430 00:24:41,967 --> 00:24:43,367 TAMMY: Theresa 431 00:24:43,433 --> 00:24:47,066 and Luis and Harriet, we were all 432 00:24:47,133 --> 00:24:50,834 just in shock about this big switch. 433 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,100 Her fantasy world 434 00:24:54,100 --> 00:24:59,166 absolutely allowed her to escape from 435 00:24:59,166 --> 00:25:03,533 the atrocities that she was doing to these kids. 436 00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:21,834 I can remember my mom telling me 437 00:25:23,567 --> 00:25:25,166 that I let Harriet go. 438 00:25:26,266 --> 00:25:28,634 That she had something to do with her escape. 439 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,667 PRODUCER: Harriet tried to escape a number of times. 440 00:25:33,667 --> 00:25:35,467 -Okay. -Were you -- did you know that? 441 00:25:35,467 --> 00:25:36,767 No. 442 00:25:36,767 --> 00:25:41,166 PRODUCER: This is a summary from the prosecutor's 443 00:25:41,166 --> 00:25:43,467 opening statement. 444 00:25:43,467 --> 00:25:45,667 "When Harriet ran away, the Elmwood Park 445 00:25:45,667 --> 00:25:49,166 "Police found her walking around on Route 46. 446 00:25:49,166 --> 00:25:50,767 "She didn't have any shoes on. 447 00:25:50,834 --> 00:25:53,433 "She wouldn't give the name of who was doing this. 448 00:25:54,467 --> 00:25:56,367 "She ran for her life, and she's alive 449 00:25:56,367 --> 00:25:58,634 today because she got out of that house." 450 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,266 Good for you, Harriet. Good for you. 451 00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:19,166 I believed that my mother helped Harriet escape 452 00:26:19,166 --> 00:26:21,367 when she told me that she did, 453 00:26:21,367 --> 00:26:23,066 but it doesn't look that way. 454 00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:27,066 Especially if Harriet tried multiple times. 455 00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:31,767 PRODUCER: She gave an address, and they went to Marie's house. 456 00:26:31,767 --> 00:26:34,867 They found a very clear-speaking, eloquent person 457 00:26:34,867 --> 00:26:38,200 in Marie saying, "In my house? 458 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,767 "A child abused? 459 00:26:39,767 --> 00:26:41,867 I wouldn't permit such a thing," 460 00:26:41,867 --> 00:26:44,433 and they said, "We don't know what to think." 461 00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:50,066 My mom, like, blatantly lying like that? 462 00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:55,367 I mean, it's crushing -- it's just crushing, 463 00:26:55,367 --> 00:26:57,166 just more and more. 464 00:26:57,233 --> 00:26:58,867 It's horrible to hear. 465 00:26:58,867 --> 00:27:00,300 Horrible to hear that 466 00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:03,533 my mom just, "Oh no, not here." Really? Really? 467 00:27:04,467 --> 00:27:07,634 But it was there, and you could be that... 468 00:27:09,467 --> 00:27:11,533 sane, to say that? 469 00:27:12,467 --> 00:27:14,166 And then continue 470 00:27:15,467 --> 00:27:17,967 to allow all that other stuff to go 471 00:27:17,967 --> 00:27:19,533 down in the house, really? 472 00:27:31,867 --> 00:27:33,533 This is Luis on the stand 473 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,567 speaking with the prosecutor. 474 00:27:35,567 --> 00:27:37,467 "I was called into the living room, and Marie said 475 00:27:37,467 --> 00:27:38,967 "that I was going to go home. 476 00:27:38,967 --> 00:27:40,266 "And I was allowed to. 477 00:27:40,333 --> 00:27:42,533 "I didn't have to come back anymore if I didn't want to. 478 00:27:43,567 --> 00:27:45,300 "Ricky was going to give me something 479 00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:48,066 "to remind me not to say anything. 480 00:27:48,133 --> 00:27:50,634 "Ricky told me to put my hands over my head, 481 00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:54,467 "and he beat me with his fist and punched me in my face. 482 00:27:54,467 --> 00:27:55,667 Made me bleed." 483 00:27:55,667 --> 00:27:57,300 AS RICKY: No! No! 484 00:27:57,300 --> 00:27:59,533 "You never went back there again, because you were told 485 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,634 you didn't have to come back anymore?" 486 00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:03,667 "Yes." "Did you keep your mouth shut 487 00:28:03,667 --> 00:28:04,867 like you were told?" 488 00:28:04,867 --> 00:28:06,367 "Yes." "Did you tell the police 489 00:28:06,433 --> 00:28:09,300 what had happened to you?" "No." 490 00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:11,100 "Did you still believe about the mafia?" 491 00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:12,100 "Yes." 492 00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:14,533 "And that you could be killed?" "Yes." 493 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,467 He still kept his mouth shut. That's amazing. 494 00:28:20,467 --> 00:28:22,200 I mean, that's... 495 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,166 just shows how frightened they were. 496 00:28:29,166 --> 00:28:30,967 [quietly] Oh, man, Luis. 497 00:28:33,367 --> 00:28:35,100 Luis, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. 498 00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:36,667 I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. 499 00:28:36,667 --> 00:28:39,266 I'm just so sorry. I'm just so sorry. 500 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,100 It was a living hell immediately 501 00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:54,734 once we moved into the smaller apartment. 502 00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:59,266 All that was left was the four of us -- me, 503 00:28:59,333 --> 00:29:01,233 Ricky, my mom, and Theresa. 504 00:29:02,467 --> 00:29:03,867 It started to get bad for her. 505 00:29:03,867 --> 00:29:05,233 It was really bad for her. 506 00:29:07,667 --> 00:29:09,533 The torture was at its highest level. 507 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:10,934 It was the worst it was. 508 00:29:11,967 --> 00:29:14,934 It was out in the open. There was no hiding it. 509 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,967 Theresa would be chained to 510 00:29:19,033 --> 00:29:22,533 the radiator -- whenever Ricky walked past her, 511 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,066 he would kick her or hit her or do something. 512 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,567 They were starving her. She was emaciated. 513 00:29:33,567 --> 00:29:35,166 She was bruised all over. 514 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,767 I asked Ricky if I could give her 515 00:29:39,834 --> 00:29:42,266 some food, he said no, I went to my mom. 516 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:47,000 And she was like, "Just don't. Just don't, Tammy, just don't." 517 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,300 No. 518 00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:50,367 So then -- so I gave up. I gave up. 519 00:29:51,867 --> 00:29:54,767 I did. I shouldn't have given up. 520 00:29:54,767 --> 00:29:57,767 I didn't say anything to anybody 521 00:29:57,767 --> 00:30:00,433 about it -- I was afraid. 522 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:06,166 I feel so horrible about not doing any of that 523 00:30:06,233 --> 00:30:07,867 when it could have mattered. 524 00:30:07,867 --> 00:30:09,266 Why didn't I do something? 525 00:30:09,333 --> 00:30:11,367 Why didn't I say something? Why didn't I call 911? 526 00:30:11,367 --> 00:30:13,266 Why didn't I care enough? 527 00:30:21,767 --> 00:30:23,200 TAMMY: While we were in this apartment, 528 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,667 I went to school every day, and Theresa never left the house. 529 00:30:26,667 --> 00:30:28,133 She wasn't allowed to go to school. 530 00:30:29,867 --> 00:30:33,734 At night, Ricky would move her to the bathroom, 531 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,567 where they would handcuff her to the foot 532 00:30:38,567 --> 00:30:42,133 of the bathtub and leave her there all night. 533 00:30:44,767 --> 00:30:46,567 She would sleep in the bathroom 534 00:30:46,567 --> 00:30:50,867 then be brought into the kitchen 535 00:30:50,867 --> 00:30:52,867 all day long, 536 00:30:52,867 --> 00:30:56,066 and Theresa's, like, really in a really bad place. 537 00:30:56,066 --> 00:31:00,367 So then one day I woke up to him manhandling her. 538 00:31:01,567 --> 00:31:05,533 My bedroom was directly across from the bathroom. 539 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,667 So I could see it happen 540 00:31:09,667 --> 00:31:11,567 with the door open. 541 00:31:11,567 --> 00:31:12,867 I saw Ricky... 542 00:31:15,467 --> 00:31:17,166 I keep -- I think he was trying 543 00:31:17,233 --> 00:31:19,367 to, like, make her stand up or something. 544 00:31:21,367 --> 00:31:25,400 She was so weak and broken that she couldn't even sit up. 545 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,667 I was kind of like, "Mom, mom." 546 00:31:28,667 --> 00:31:32,734 She hit her head up against the bathtub, and she just went limp. 547 00:31:34,166 --> 00:31:36,100 The way she went limp 548 00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:38,867 was something I'd never seen before. 549 00:31:38,867 --> 00:31:40,834 Get out of here, now! 550 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,166 My mom said, "Go to school. 551 00:31:47,166 --> 00:31:49,066 Go to school. Go to school." 552 00:31:49,066 --> 00:31:52,533 So I went to school, and I just sat there in class 553 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,166 in shock. 554 00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:59,533 When I came home, I was like, "Where's Theresa?" 555 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,367 I'm not sure who said what, 556 00:32:02,433 --> 00:32:04,967 but they were kind of like along the lines of, 557 00:32:04,967 --> 00:32:06,367 "Don't worry about it. She's okay. 558 00:32:06,367 --> 00:32:09,467 "She's fine. She's taken care of. She's fine." 559 00:32:09,467 --> 00:32:11,567 I'm thinking, "Where? Where, mom? 560 00:32:11,567 --> 00:32:14,066 Where is she? Where is she?" 561 00:32:14,066 --> 00:32:15,467 She's like, "Don't ask any questions, 562 00:32:15,467 --> 00:32:18,467 Tammy, don't ask questions, Tammy." 563 00:32:18,467 --> 00:32:19,734 She was gone. 564 00:32:21,467 --> 00:32:23,066 And I thought to myself, 565 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:26,266 they killed her. 566 00:32:30,567 --> 00:32:31,734 Oh, my God. 567 00:32:33,467 --> 00:32:36,133 Maybe... maybe, I'm next. 568 00:32:39,967 --> 00:32:41,867 Were you ever told why she was 569 00:32:41,934 --> 00:32:43,734 moved in the morning from the bathroom? 570 00:32:44,967 --> 00:32:45,967 The bathroom had to be available 571 00:32:45,967 --> 00:32:47,367 for you to get ready for school. 572 00:32:48,567 --> 00:32:50,734 It... 573 00:32:52,467 --> 00:32:54,066 [exhales heavily] 574 00:32:58,100 --> 00:32:59,734 I really hope Theresa forgives me... 575 00:33:04,667 --> 00:33:06,567 for not saying something 576 00:33:06,567 --> 00:33:08,734 earlier, for not saving her. 577 00:33:12,367 --> 00:33:16,066 That sucks to hear that, you know, that 578 00:33:16,066 --> 00:33:17,467 this poor girl is... 579 00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:24,266 being tortured, and again, you know, I'm... 580 00:33:25,266 --> 00:33:27,967 being doted on, you know, being taken care of, 581 00:33:27,967 --> 00:33:30,166 you know, that's kind of -- 582 00:33:30,166 --> 00:33:32,967 it's crushing -- it's crushing. 583 00:33:45,467 --> 00:33:46,967 [crying quietly] 584 00:33:46,967 --> 00:33:48,467 TAMMY: Ricky went back home. 585 00:33:50,867 --> 00:33:52,133 I was so relieved. 586 00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:54,867 Because for me, he was the reason why everything 587 00:33:54,867 --> 00:33:57,200 started -- before you, everything was fine. 588 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,467 Once you came into our lives, all hell broke loose. 589 00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:05,767 My mom was devastated. 590 00:34:05,767 --> 00:34:08,066 She just stayed in her bed for days, 591 00:34:08,066 --> 00:34:09,734 just saying how much she missed him, 592 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,667 how much she wanted them back. 593 00:34:11,667 --> 00:34:13,967 He goes, "No, I'm not -- I'm not gonna go back." 594 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,867 Then it was get-back time. 595 00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:22,467 He doesn't want me? Okay. 596 00:34:22,533 --> 00:34:26,634 Well then I'm gonna tell the police that he killed Theresa. 597 00:34:28,066 --> 00:34:29,867 And that's -- that's what she did. 598 00:34:29,867 --> 00:34:31,634 Can I please speak to homicide? 599 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,367 That was the first time that I had gotten confirmation 600 00:34:35,367 --> 00:34:37,734 that Theresa was actually dead. 601 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,967 My mom basically went to the cops 602 00:34:39,967 --> 00:34:43,867 and led them directly to the body, to Theresa's body. 603 00:34:47,300 --> 00:34:51,467 I come to find out that after Ricky manhandled her, 604 00:34:51,533 --> 00:34:53,533 and she hit her head in the bathtub, 605 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,667 apparently, they wrapped her up in duct tape, 606 00:34:56,667 --> 00:34:59,066 sprinkled it with lye, and shoved her 607 00:34:59,133 --> 00:35:00,467 in the back of the wall, 608 00:35:00,467 --> 00:35:04,033 put her in between the beams right behind my bed. 609 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,734 I learned that she was actually still alive. 610 00:35:11,667 --> 00:35:14,533 And she suffocated now, because they duct-taped her 611 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:15,533 entire body. 612 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,266 Oh. Oh, Lord Jesus. 613 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,533 TAMMY: When my mother had originally 614 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,667 told the cops 615 00:35:33,667 --> 00:35:37,767 that Ricky was abusing people, 616 00:35:39,266 --> 00:35:42,166 she had asked me to go and tell the cops 617 00:35:42,166 --> 00:35:44,667 that Ricky raped me. 618 00:35:46,467 --> 00:35:48,166 I guess to make her story better. 619 00:35:49,266 --> 00:35:51,333 I went. I did as she said. 620 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,266 The ship was sinking, and she was 621 00:35:55,266 --> 00:35:58,367 pulling out all the stops at that point 622 00:35:58,433 --> 00:36:01,634 to save herself at that time. 623 00:36:03,266 --> 00:36:04,867 They could just see right through me. 624 00:36:04,867 --> 00:36:07,000 The detectives are like, "Are you sure about that? 625 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,600 Are you sure about that?" 626 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,066 I'm not sure about -- you know, like, no I'm lying, you know. 627 00:36:11,133 --> 00:36:14,066 It was -- I couldn't -- I couldn't hold onto the lie. 628 00:36:14,066 --> 00:36:16,166 I couldn't do it. Ricky never raped me. 629 00:36:16,233 --> 00:36:18,066 No. Never ever. 630 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:32,367 They sat me down, and they said, "Your mother's being arrested 631 00:36:32,433 --> 00:36:34,867 "for murder, and you're going to go to Family Services. 632 00:36:34,867 --> 00:36:36,333 You're going to go to a foster home." 633 00:36:38,967 --> 00:36:41,467 I'm crying, "No, no, no, no. 634 00:36:41,467 --> 00:36:44,100 "It's not her. It's not her. Ricky did it. 635 00:36:44,100 --> 00:36:45,867 It's not her. Ricky did it." 636 00:36:49,867 --> 00:36:51,767 I thought they had it wrong, 637 00:36:51,834 --> 00:36:54,734 because I watched Ricky 638 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,934 manhandle her into the tub and go limp. 639 00:37:01,066 --> 00:37:04,166 But in retrospect, right, and finding everything out, 640 00:37:05,667 --> 00:37:07,033 that duct tape did her in. 641 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,433 They suffocated her, whoever put the duct tape on her. 642 00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:17,166 Finding out 643 00:37:17,166 --> 00:37:20,734 all of this new information, it's probably... 644 00:37:22,667 --> 00:37:25,367 what has shocked me most 645 00:37:25,367 --> 00:37:26,634 in this interview. 646 00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:33,634 This is a mugshot of my mother. 647 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,433 Look at my mother's face here. 648 00:37:38,567 --> 00:37:39,533 Her eyes. 649 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,800 What the [bleep] was going through your head, ma? 650 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,667 What the [bleep]? What the hell? 651 00:37:47,734 --> 00:37:50,166 What the [bleep]? 652 00:37:53,166 --> 00:37:55,166 She could have stopped it. 653 00:37:55,166 --> 00:37:57,166 Yeah, she didn't even have to start it. 654 00:37:57,166 --> 00:38:00,467 [sniffles] She could have stopped it. 655 00:38:00,533 --> 00:38:04,333 It's a shame. [Bleep] shame. 656 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,834 I don't want to look at this. 657 00:38:31,066 --> 00:38:36,700 The next time I saw her was behind 4-inch-thick glass, 658 00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:42,367 and I visited her like that for the next four years. 659 00:38:44,166 --> 00:38:47,867 I did not ask her what happened or why she did it. 660 00:38:47,934 --> 00:38:49,967 We didn't talk about those things. 661 00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:52,867 She... 662 00:38:52,867 --> 00:38:56,266 would have thought that I would stop 663 00:38:56,266 --> 00:38:58,767 loving her if I knew the truth. 664 00:38:58,767 --> 00:39:00,967 That was a big fear of hers. 665 00:39:03,767 --> 00:39:05,700 Within a few years, she appealed, 666 00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:09,166 and the sentence was overturned. 667 00:39:09,233 --> 00:39:13,367 They gave her, I think, two life sentences 668 00:39:13,433 --> 00:39:16,233 and some more years on the side. 669 00:39:29,467 --> 00:39:33,634 This is a picture of me and my mother in prison. 670 00:39:35,166 --> 00:39:38,367 Now she was off of death row, and I was 671 00:39:38,367 --> 00:39:41,767 able to actually hug her the first time I saw her. 672 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,767 That's why we're holding on really tight. 673 00:39:46,266 --> 00:39:47,433 All intertwined. 674 00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:52,634 I mean, even through all the... 675 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,767 horrible stuff that happened, she still loved me. 676 00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:03,133 I visited her all the time for 28 years. 677 00:40:05,066 --> 00:40:07,667 The last time I visited her, 678 00:40:07,667 --> 00:40:11,266 she had told me that she had a lump here, and that it was 679 00:40:11,266 --> 00:40:13,166 hurting her really badly. 680 00:40:13,166 --> 00:40:17,166 Eventually, she passed away from breast cancer, 681 00:40:17,166 --> 00:40:19,767 and that's where, in the end, she died. 682 00:40:19,767 --> 00:40:21,033 She died in prison. 683 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,667 My foster family, it was wonderful. 684 00:40:31,667 --> 00:40:33,667 Gave me all the love I needed. 685 00:40:33,667 --> 00:40:37,066 I stayed there for about two years, 686 00:40:37,133 --> 00:40:39,867 and then I moved out on my own, 687 00:40:39,934 --> 00:40:42,567 and I've been on my own ever since, 688 00:40:42,567 --> 00:40:43,967 and I've been working full-time 689 00:40:43,967 --> 00:40:46,967 since I'm 15 years old. 690 00:40:47,033 --> 00:40:48,867 Ended up working out well. 691 00:40:48,867 --> 00:40:51,233 I, you know, got my GED. 692 00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:55,533 Um...and here I am. 693 00:41:03,467 --> 00:41:04,867 I believed her all these years. 694 00:41:06,166 --> 00:41:08,433 I believed she was taken advantage of. 695 00:41:11,367 --> 00:41:13,333 But all of that is, like, 696 00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:18,033 up in the air, gone, thrown out the window now. 697 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,667 I still try to make sense of it to this day. 698 00:41:20,667 --> 00:41:23,100 I really do -- I think, oh, God. 699 00:41:23,100 --> 00:41:24,767 You know, is there something -- 700 00:41:24,834 --> 00:41:27,266 am I gonna switch, am I gonna, you know, 701 00:41:27,266 --> 00:41:30,166 switch it up, am I gonna become this, you know, person? 702 00:41:31,166 --> 00:41:33,233 I hope not -- so far, so good. 703 00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:37,467 With everything that I've learned, 704 00:41:38,767 --> 00:41:41,467 I believe, you know, Ricky -- Ricky was 705 00:41:41,467 --> 00:41:43,734 a victim, too, just like those other kids. 706 00:41:46,266 --> 00:41:49,066 So now it's time for me to really 707 00:41:49,133 --> 00:41:52,567 sit back and let this new information 708 00:41:52,634 --> 00:41:54,333 kind of seep in. 709 00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:58,000 And I got to figure out where I put it, 710 00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,967 where it goes, how I deal with it.