1 00:00:02,266 --> 00:00:04,367 I'm looking at a picture of Bob Duke. 2 00:00:04,367 --> 00:00:05,867 He's scary-looking. 3 00:00:05,867 --> 00:00:08,166 He looks like the murderer that he is. 4 00:00:09,467 --> 00:00:10,600 This tore the community apart. 5 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:12,700 It tore us under and-and it ripped 6 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:13,867 right down the middle. 7 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:17,367 Half the community thinks I made it up. 8 00:00:17,367 --> 00:00:19,166 You never wanted to believe it was an accident. 9 00:00:20,967 --> 00:00:22,767 I was in such turmoil. 10 00:00:22,767 --> 00:00:25,867 I was lost. I was just... I was a shell. 11 00:00:25,867 --> 00:00:28,900 I was-I was crippled. Emotionally crippled. 12 00:00:28,900 --> 00:00:30,233 He put me through a lot of hell. 13 00:00:31,567 --> 00:00:32,533 For me, that is... 14 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,433 That's the eyes of evil right there. 15 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:37,734 That's-That's bad [bleep] 16 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,567 He murdered the two people in the world 17 00:01:15,567 --> 00:01:17,066 that trusted him the most. 18 00:01:18,066 --> 00:01:20,700 I was nobody. I was afraid for... 19 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:22,767 my parents, my wife, for my children. 20 00:01:22,767 --> 00:01:23,934 I was afraid for everybody. 21 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:25,800 It was terrifying. 22 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,567 But I made the mistake of not believing 23 00:01:27,567 --> 00:01:28,667 he's capable over the first time, 24 00:01:28,667 --> 00:01:30,266 and I wasn't gonna do it again. 25 00:01:30,266 --> 00:01:32,567 I cannot watch people die at his hand again. 26 00:01:32,567 --> 00:01:35,467 Knowing full well that I could have done something about it. 27 00:01:35,467 --> 00:01:38,166 You know, that's something I live with every day. Is the fact that 28 00:01:38,166 --> 00:01:40,834 I didn't say anything and he murdered 'em. 29 00:01:44,300 --> 00:01:47,433 I wish I could have believed that he was capable of that. 30 00:01:48,500 --> 00:01:50,233 They would still be here. [sniffles] 31 00:01:53,900 --> 00:01:55,533 [inhales and exhales deeply] 32 00:02:03,767 --> 00:02:04,834 [distorted] 33 00:02:16,300 --> 00:02:17,266 [creaking] 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,166 [door creaking] 35 00:02:38,266 --> 00:02:39,567 That's a picture of Bob. 36 00:02:39,567 --> 00:02:41,934 That's pretty much when we first started hanging out. 37 00:02:42,867 --> 00:02:44,033 A long time ago. 38 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,266 I cared for him deeply. We were best friends. 39 00:02:47,266 --> 00:02:49,367 He was like the brother I never had. 40 00:02:49,367 --> 00:02:51,100 And, uh, you know, 41 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:52,667 if things had happened differently, 42 00:02:52,667 --> 00:02:53,934 we'd probably still be friends. 43 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:56,166 He was clean-cut. 44 00:02:56,166 --> 00:02:58,867 All-American cross country runner. 45 00:02:58,867 --> 00:03:01,200 Straight A's. He was, you know... 46 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,667 every parent's, you know, dream child, I'd imagine. 47 00:03:04,567 --> 00:03:06,367 Even my dad thought Bob was better than me. 48 00:03:06,367 --> 00:03:07,367 My own dad. 49 00:03:07,367 --> 00:03:08,467 He thought Bob was great. 50 00:03:08,467 --> 00:03:10,066 He wanted me to be more like Bob. 51 00:03:11,867 --> 00:03:15,066 Looking at this picture, I see innocence. [scoffs] 52 00:03:15,066 --> 00:03:17,500 Compared to-to what he became later. 53 00:03:17,500 --> 00:03:19,567 I know beyond a shadow of a doubt 54 00:03:19,567 --> 00:03:21,734 that Bob would have killed again and again and again. 55 00:03:22,467 --> 00:03:23,533 He was a monster. 56 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,166 This is a picture of me in... 57 00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:49,066 I want to say, my junior year? 58 00:03:49,066 --> 00:03:50,233 Maybe my sophomore year. 59 00:03:51,266 --> 00:03:53,400 I was kind of a nerd. 60 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,133 I'm still pretty overweight. 61 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,700 I actually was born in Salt Lake, 62 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:01,600 lived in Idaho till I was about nine years old, 63 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,433 and then moved up here to Wyoming. 64 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:05,800 And I was, you know, 65 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,166 kind of messed with. 66 00:04:07,166 --> 00:04:09,367 We call bullying nowadays. But... 67 00:04:09,367 --> 00:04:11,433 uh, I was-I was given grief for being heavy. 68 00:04:12,567 --> 00:04:14,000 I just kind of kept to myself. 69 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,266 I didn't have a lot of friends. 70 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:25,266 Everything's really cliquish at school, 71 00:04:25,266 --> 00:04:27,567 and I kinda didn't fit into any of 'em. 72 00:04:29,166 --> 00:04:31,300 I knew who Bob Duke was 'cause he was 73 00:04:31,300 --> 00:04:34,333 schoolteachers kid and, you know, he wore the nice clothes. 74 00:04:35,467 --> 00:04:37,000 You know, he was kind of the prep. 75 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,800 You know, the kids that, kind of uppity. 76 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,667 They did really well in school. 77 00:04:41,667 --> 00:04:43,066 They were popular. 78 00:04:43,066 --> 00:04:46,767 You weren't of his clique, he would just down dress you. 79 00:04:46,767 --> 00:04:49,266 He was arrogant. He was an [bleep]. Yeah. 80 00:04:49,266 --> 00:04:51,100 He was really mean to people for no reason. 81 00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:52,667 Thought he was better than everybody. 82 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,500 When he bullied you, it was personal. 83 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:57,266 It was like, didn't complete his day 84 00:04:57,266 --> 00:04:59,166 if he wasn't messing with someone. 85 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,867 There was this girl that was kinda heavy, too, and... 86 00:05:03,867 --> 00:05:05,867 I remember one day he thought it would be really funny 87 00:05:05,867 --> 00:05:07,367 to take a hat pin 88 00:05:07,367 --> 00:05:08,867 and walk by her in the hall and stab her with it 89 00:05:08,867 --> 00:05:10,166 and then walk off. 90 00:05:13,367 --> 00:05:15,100 Of course, she screamed out and freaked out 91 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:16,166 and went to the nurse. 92 00:05:17,667 --> 00:05:20,266 He definitely, you know, meant to hurt her. 93 00:05:20,266 --> 00:05:22,734 Uh, it was, and he thought it was funny about it. 94 00:05:24,367 --> 00:05:26,567 But I thought that was really messed up, you know? 95 00:05:26,567 --> 00:05:29,467 But, um, anyone else that would have done that, 96 00:05:29,467 --> 00:05:31,033 and I just didn't really care for him. 97 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,900 Bob had been putting me down and just degrading me 98 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:47,333 and bullying me for at least a year. 99 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,000 And... that's when... 100 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,867 [chuckles] ...I guess I'd had enough 101 00:05:51,867 --> 00:05:53,533 and he'd push me to the edge. 102 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,367 So the bell was about to ring. 103 00:06:00,367 --> 00:06:03,000 And I wanted to be early 'cause I like to be early 104 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,000 'cause I'm gonna pick a seat, usually in the back. 105 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,200 And, uh, he was walking ahead of me 106 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,734 talking to someone, just being... 107 00:06:10,266 --> 00:06:12,000 being Bob. Just being very, 108 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,767 you know, arrogant and impudent. And... 109 00:06:14,767 --> 00:06:16,967 I asked him, "Excuse me," to get by him. 110 00:06:18,967 --> 00:06:21,467 He said something like, calm down, fat boy or... 111 00:06:21,467 --> 00:06:23,634 or chill out or something. It was very condescending. 112 00:06:26,567 --> 00:06:27,734 And at that point... 113 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:29,767 I guess I snapped. 114 00:06:29,767 --> 00:06:30,800 Screw you. 115 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:31,767 [Bob groans] 116 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:33,266 I shoved him 117 00:06:33,266 --> 00:06:34,934 and proceeded to throw a pounding on him. 118 00:06:36,767 --> 00:06:38,266 This is the first time I ever been in a fight, 119 00:06:38,266 --> 00:06:40,266 but I just had enough from him. 120 00:06:40,266 --> 00:06:43,200 I had enough of being talked down to and had enough of... 121 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,934 you know, that him thinking he's better than everybody. 122 00:06:48,467 --> 00:06:50,266 I hit him, like, four times. 123 00:06:50,266 --> 00:06:52,100 I expected him to fight back. 124 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:54,100 But he just stood there and looked at me dumbly. 125 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:56,467 And, uh, I hit him hard enough, actually, 126 00:06:56,467 --> 00:06:58,867 that he ended up having a big lump. 127 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,467 The teachers intervened. 128 00:07:02,467 --> 00:07:04,433 We took Bob down to the nurse and... 129 00:07:05,066 --> 00:07:06,133 then the ambulance. 130 00:07:07,066 --> 00:07:08,000 They thought he had a concussion. 131 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,333 He actually had to go to the hospital. 132 00:07:10,667 --> 00:07:12,266 And they took me to the principal's office. 133 00:07:12,266 --> 00:07:13,300 And then the police were called 134 00:07:13,300 --> 00:07:15,166 and I got a three-day suspension. 135 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:25,867 When I came back, I was actually... 136 00:07:25,867 --> 00:07:28,500 Had some sort of popularity. I had... I... 137 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:29,700 I had people coming up to me saying, 138 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:30,967 "Hey, man, good job," you know? 139 00:07:30,967 --> 00:07:32,166 'Cause they'd seen the way Bob was, too. 140 00:07:34,166 --> 00:07:36,567 I expected an entirely different welcome. 141 00:07:36,567 --> 00:07:38,400 I expected, you know, everyone be like, "You're a jerk." 142 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,100 You know? "We don't want to hang out with you." 143 00:07:41,100 --> 00:07:43,800 I realized after that happened when people started coming up to me, 144 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,834 telling me, "Good job." [chuckles] That I wasn't the only 145 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,000 victim in this. 146 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,200 When I seen him first time, the way he treated people, 147 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,867 but I realized that the scope of... 148 00:07:55,066 --> 00:07:56,934 people that-that really didn't like him. 149 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,400 He preyed upon the weak 150 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,834 because it made him feel better about himself and made him feel powerful. 151 00:08:04,100 --> 00:08:07,700 After that incident, Bob didn't mess with me anymore. 152 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:09,166 He didn't see me as a pushover anymore. 153 00:08:20,867 --> 00:08:22,266 We were both really into fitness. 154 00:08:22,266 --> 00:08:24,867 Even though I was still a fat kid, I was trying not to be. 155 00:08:24,867 --> 00:08:27,166 So I went to work out, and Bob was there. 156 00:08:27,567 --> 00:08:29,166 Hey, Roger. 157 00:08:29,166 --> 00:08:31,266 Didn't know you were into working out. 158 00:08:31,266 --> 00:08:33,667 And we're like, "Hey, man, would you spot me?" 159 00:08:33,667 --> 00:08:35,433 That's how our friendship blossomed, looking back. 160 00:08:36,867 --> 00:08:38,734 We realized our interests were similar. 161 00:08:39,667 --> 00:08:41,667 Did you see that new action movie yet, dude? 162 00:08:41,900 --> 00:08:43,200 Which one? 163 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,567 We used to watch hitman movies where, you know, 164 00:08:45,567 --> 00:08:48,066 the hitman would make thousands of dollars for, 165 00:08:48,066 --> 00:08:49,867 you know, a moment of time. 166 00:08:49,867 --> 00:08:51,700 You know, killing someone, pulling a trigger. 167 00:08:51,700 --> 00:08:52,967 [Bob Duke] It's freaking sick, man. 168 00:08:52,967 --> 00:08:55,000 He fights off, like, three guys at once. 169 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,567 [Roger Brauburger] And we talked about what a great life will be, 170 00:08:56,567 --> 00:08:58,667 you know, making all that money. 171 00:08:58,667 --> 00:09:00,367 And that would be so cool, you know, and... 172 00:09:00,367 --> 00:09:01,634 I didn't think anything of it. 173 00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:03,667 [inaudible] 174 00:09:03,667 --> 00:09:05,066 For me, it was all talk. 175 00:09:05,767 --> 00:09:06,800 Even though we talked about it, 176 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,000 romanticized about it, I never thought 177 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,767 in a million years that Bob thought it was an option. 178 00:09:11,767 --> 00:09:13,500 Even if-if I go back and tell myself 179 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:15,100 then what I know now, 180 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:16,767 I don't know if I'd believe me, myself. 181 00:09:16,767 --> 00:09:18,967 You don't wanna believe that anyone's capable of murder. 182 00:09:20,567 --> 00:09:21,533 [mimicking gunshot] 183 00:09:29,166 --> 00:09:30,567 So Bob and I talked about 184 00:09:30,567 --> 00:09:33,100 how badass it would be to be that agile, and... 185 00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:36,467 you know, and I learned that style of, you know, fighting. 186 00:09:36,467 --> 00:09:38,033 And we decided to join taekwondo. 187 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:40,967 He was a lot better than I was at it. 188 00:09:41,767 --> 00:09:43,600 I mean, he could whoop my ass by then. 189 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,667 I mean, he was... He had the skills and... 190 00:09:45,667 --> 00:09:47,867 and he was just a stronger, a lot stronger than me. 191 00:09:47,867 --> 00:09:50,133 It was at the point where he was actually helping teach a class, 192 00:09:50,567 --> 00:09:51,800 'cause he was that good. 193 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:55,567 We had this one tournament we were fighting each other 194 00:09:55,567 --> 00:09:57,934 for first and second place. And... 195 00:09:58,767 --> 00:10:01,367 I had thrown a fake roundhouse. 196 00:10:01,367 --> 00:10:03,767 So I threw my foot over his head, 197 00:10:03,767 --> 00:10:05,000 touched down with the ball of my foot 198 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,734 and came back and got him with a point. 199 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:08,634 And that really upset him. 200 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:12,433 I could see the rage in his eyes. 201 00:10:15,667 --> 00:10:17,000 In that moment, I was looking in the eyes 202 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,967 of a predator and I was the prey. 203 00:10:18,967 --> 00:10:21,166 I was-I was just... I was a loose end. 204 00:10:23,567 --> 00:10:26,467 And it was terrifying. 205 00:10:26,467 --> 00:10:28,634 When the ref said go again, he just came at me and... 206 00:10:30,367 --> 00:10:31,567 It was a brutal attack. 207 00:10:31,567 --> 00:10:32,867 He wasn't trying to pull any punches. 208 00:10:32,867 --> 00:10:34,100 It wasn't about scoring points. 209 00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:35,333 It was about beating on me. 210 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,066 It was to beat my ass. 211 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,066 And, of course, the ref had to stop the fight. 212 00:10:43,066 --> 00:10:46,300 Stand us both back up and they took a point from him and gave him a warning. 213 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:47,266 And then we continued. 214 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:50,700 Even though we were buddies, 215 00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:52,667 I know Bob always kind of looked down on me. 216 00:10:53,467 --> 00:10:55,166 I think when I got the point off of Bob, 217 00:10:55,166 --> 00:10:56,600 it was a personal insult to him. 218 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,033 And then, you know, it was over from that point. He was... 219 00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:00,867 He was done playing. 220 00:11:00,867 --> 00:11:02,233 And he ended up winning the bout. 221 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,467 Of course, we had to stand up there to get the trophies. 222 00:11:06,467 --> 00:11:07,867 But after that, he just didn't have anything 223 00:11:07,867 --> 00:11:09,567 to do with me, really, for a couple of weeks. 224 00:11:11,266 --> 00:11:12,767 I don't think Bob thought 225 00:11:12,767 --> 00:11:14,400 that anyone could be better than him at anything. 226 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,934 I think-think he thought he was the smartest, the best. 227 00:11:19,066 --> 00:11:20,867 He was successful at anything he put his mind to. 228 00:11:22,367 --> 00:11:24,433 I always knew he thought he was better than me. 229 00:11:25,066 --> 00:11:26,200 Didn't bother me. 230 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:27,367 It wasn't something I dwelled on. 231 00:11:27,367 --> 00:11:29,567 It wasn't like, "Oh, well, he thinks I'm a loser." 232 00:11:29,967 --> 00:11:31,333 We were friends. 233 00:11:32,367 --> 00:11:34,734 And at the time, you know, I mean, I just went along with it. 234 00:11:36,367 --> 00:11:38,467 I look back and I just wonder how much he was using me 235 00:11:38,467 --> 00:11:40,867 and how much was actually friendship. 236 00:11:40,867 --> 00:11:42,900 And at the same time I'm repulsed 237 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:44,700 that I ever called him friend. 238 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:47,700 You know, because of how evil he is. 239 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:49,834 Just absolutely, positively evil. 240 00:11:57,166 --> 00:11:59,367 [Roger] So when we were in high school, Bob talked about going to college. 241 00:11:59,367 --> 00:12:00,767 You know, he wanted to do something, 242 00:12:00,767 --> 00:12:03,000 get out of this town and do something with his life. 243 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,867 This town was too small for him. 244 00:12:06,066 --> 00:12:08,300 Man, I can't wait to get out of here. 245 00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:10,100 [Roger] My parents didn't have the money for college, 246 00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:12,400 and once I got into high school and I started doing drugs 247 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:13,767 and my grades went downhill directly. 248 00:12:13,767 --> 00:12:15,900 So scholarships weren't in my future either. 249 00:12:15,900 --> 00:12:17,700 But I'm sure they were for him. 250 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:20,066 He didn't want to stay here. He didn't want to be tied here. 251 00:12:20,066 --> 00:12:21,800 I'm so sick of this place. 252 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,767 [Roger] I expressed several times University of Michigan. 253 00:12:24,767 --> 00:12:26,100 What about you and Liana? 254 00:12:26,100 --> 00:12:27,667 But, uh, somewhere in our junior year, 255 00:12:27,667 --> 00:12:29,900 Bob started dating a girl who was a sophomore. 256 00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:31,600 What are you guys doing out here? 257 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,667 Liana was a very pretty girl. 258 00:12:33,667 --> 00:12:36,266 And she was all about Bob. She doted on him. 259 00:12:36,266 --> 00:12:38,667 She worshipped the ground he walked on. I mean... 260 00:12:38,667 --> 00:12:41,367 she-she wanted a life with him from day one. 261 00:12:41,367 --> 00:12:43,066 She wanted a family. She wanted, 262 00:12:43,066 --> 00:12:45,667 you know, the white picket fence and the two and a half kids. 263 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,400 It was our senior year in high school 264 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,567 when Bob had mentioned to me that she was pregnant. 265 00:12:58,567 --> 00:13:01,100 And he felt, uh, a lot of anxiety. 266 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:02,667 He didn't know what he was gonna do. 267 00:13:02,667 --> 00:13:05,400 How his life was gonna change. He was really uncertain. 268 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,166 I'm sure he probably had the-the abortion talk with her. 269 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:10,467 You know, her being a Mormon, 270 00:13:10,467 --> 00:13:13,367 I'm sure that, you know, I think this isn't an option. 271 00:13:13,367 --> 00:13:16,066 He told me that he felt pressured to marry her. 272 00:13:16,066 --> 00:13:19,266 He thought his life was over and his plans were shot. 273 00:13:19,266 --> 00:13:21,634 Bob never was... He never really shared a lot, 274 00:13:22,166 --> 00:13:24,467 emotionally to me. 275 00:13:24,467 --> 00:13:26,467 I mean, glimpses here and there. 276 00:13:26,467 --> 00:13:28,500 But he kept that facade, you know? 277 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:31,567 He show... he showed people what he wanted to show 'em. 278 00:13:31,567 --> 00:13:34,166 So to catch cracks here and there, it was pretty rare. 279 00:13:42,066 --> 00:13:43,467 This was the wedding day. 280 00:13:44,367 --> 00:13:46,767 Bob and Liana's wedding day. 281 00:13:47,767 --> 00:13:49,300 Yeah. 282 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:51,567 That's an old picture. It's crazy. 283 00:13:52,667 --> 00:13:53,567 Again... 284 00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:56,400 innocence, uh, you know, 285 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,166 beginnings, new beginnings, and... 286 00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:01,166 So much hope. You know? 287 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,066 So much hope. 288 00:14:04,066 --> 00:14:06,367 That it would be the same day as their graduation. 289 00:14:06,367 --> 00:14:08,667 Graduated at ten, he was married at two. 290 00:14:08,667 --> 00:14:12,000 And he was... freaking out a little bit. 291 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,533 You could tell he was a little distraught. 292 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:15,233 This was a turning point. 293 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,734 He had a beautiful woman and a great career. 294 00:14:35,266 --> 00:14:36,567 He was successful. 295 00:14:36,567 --> 00:14:38,033 I don't think Bob seen it that way. 296 00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:40,367 I think the carpet laying business 297 00:14:40,367 --> 00:14:42,200 was just something to make money. 298 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,433 I don't think that's anything he really wanted to do for a living. 299 00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:49,033 He was forced to make changes to become... 300 00:14:49,767 --> 00:14:51,567 more responsible and be responsible 301 00:14:51,567 --> 00:14:53,567 for the lives of his wife and son. 302 00:14:53,567 --> 00:14:57,567 Bob kept their relationship separate from our relationship 303 00:14:57,567 --> 00:14:59,967 enough that I never really got to see them interact 304 00:14:59,967 --> 00:15:02,767 but once or twice, in the whole time I knew him. 305 00:15:04,667 --> 00:15:05,767 [man] Yeah, it's about to get pretty busy. 306 00:15:05,767 --> 00:15:07,100 [Roger] My dad was a carpenter. 307 00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:09,867 So I started learning carpentry when I was 12. 308 00:15:09,867 --> 00:15:12,400 And Bob knew that. Occasionally hired me to do the... 309 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,767 the woodwork or, you know, 310 00:15:14,767 --> 00:15:16,266 trim work or whatever. 311 00:15:16,266 --> 00:15:18,600 One time we came back to his house from doing a job 312 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,367 and he was gonna pay me for my time. 313 00:15:22,667 --> 00:15:24,667 And Erik came rushing up. 314 00:15:24,667 --> 00:15:26,867 "Daddy! Daddy." And I seen him stiff-arm him, 315 00:15:26,867 --> 00:15:28,867 and say, "Liana, take care of your son." 316 00:15:28,867 --> 00:15:30,000 Get this kid out of here. 317 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,333 Roger and I are trying to talk. 318 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:33,567 His son stopped in his tracks 319 00:15:33,567 --> 00:15:35,433 and looked like he was heartbroken. 320 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:38,934 Then Liana came and whisked him away. 321 00:15:39,467 --> 00:15:40,934 Daddy's just busy, okay? 322 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,467 You don't stiff-arm your child, you know. 323 00:15:47,467 --> 00:15:51,000 I don't know. It's just... It's stuck in my mind. 324 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,200 And to this day, like, I can see it... 325 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,133 like it was yesterday. It stuck in my mind. It's... 326 00:15:56,166 --> 00:15:58,567 just, like, what the f... What the hell are you doing? 327 00:15:58,567 --> 00:15:59,867 You know? That's your child. 328 00:15:59,867 --> 00:16:02,000 Maybe, hey, pick him up and hug him and... 329 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,000 you know, hold him and then, you know, write me a check 330 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,166 or say, "Hey, I'll be with you in a little while, buddy." 331 00:16:06,166 --> 00:16:09,867 You know? Yeah, it didn't seem right. 332 00:16:09,867 --> 00:16:12,667 In my mind, maybe he was just having a bad day 333 00:16:12,667 --> 00:16:15,000 and just wanted to get me paid and get me out on my way. 334 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,166 So he could be a family man. 335 00:16:16,166 --> 00:16:17,767 But it didn't- it didn't seem like that to me. 336 00:16:17,767 --> 00:16:19,266 It seemed too commonplace. 337 00:16:19,266 --> 00:16:21,300 Just to knee-jerk reaction. 338 00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:24,567 Like it wasn't... It just didn't sit right. 339 00:16:24,567 --> 00:16:26,767 Even before I have-had children, it didn't sit right 340 00:16:26,767 --> 00:16:28,066 that he would stiff-arm your son 341 00:16:28,066 --> 00:16:30,333 as he's running to you. You know? 342 00:16:31,367 --> 00:16:33,467 It wasn't the lack of emotions, 343 00:16:33,467 --> 00:16:35,166 but it was almost the opposite. 344 00:16:35,166 --> 00:16:37,834 Like, Erik was a nuisance, and that was it. 345 00:16:44,867 --> 00:16:47,700 This is a picture of Bob and his son Erik. 346 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:50,000 And one of the few pictures actually where I see them together. 347 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,000 And, uh... God, he was a cute little kid, man. 348 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,767 He's just adorable. 349 00:16:54,767 --> 00:16:56,700 Looked just like Bob. A spitting image. 350 00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:59,233 I mean, he could not deny it was his-it was his son. 351 00:16:59,967 --> 00:17:01,600 Bob loved that pickup. 352 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,266 He was always cleaning it and taking care of it. What not. 353 00:17:04,266 --> 00:17:06,734 I honestly believe he loved that truck more than he did his family. 354 00:17:07,467 --> 00:17:08,734 That's the way it seemed to me. 355 00:17:09,967 --> 00:17:11,767 Even in this photo, you know, it's... 356 00:17:11,767 --> 00:17:14,767 He's not holding Erik, he's holding his truck. 357 00:17:14,767 --> 00:17:15,867 I don't know. [exhales] 358 00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:20,467 I didn't see a lot of love on Bob's part 359 00:17:20,467 --> 00:17:22,834 to love and affection towards Erik or Liana. 360 00:17:36,467 --> 00:17:38,333 Thanks for the ride, man. See you tomorrow. 361 00:17:39,767 --> 00:17:41,367 Actually, hang on a second. 362 00:17:41,367 --> 00:17:42,867 [Roger] Bob and I had finished a job, 363 00:17:42,867 --> 00:17:46,266 and he says, "Hold on a second. I want to talk to you." 364 00:17:46,266 --> 00:17:48,567 He's like, "Remember when we talked about murder for hire stuff?" 365 00:17:48,567 --> 00:17:49,967 I'm like, "Yeah, and how he's ever been like. 366 00:17:49,967 --> 00:17:52,467 Yeah, we talked about that years ago." 367 00:17:52,467 --> 00:17:55,066 And, uh, he says, "Well, I-I want you to... 368 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,333 I want you to kill my wife and kid." 369 00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:01,166 I'm, like, "What?" 370 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:02,967 I mean, I'd pay you for it. 371 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:06,166 [Roger] And he offered me $15,000. 372 00:18:06,767 --> 00:18:09,166 And... I was taken aback. 373 00:18:09,166 --> 00:18:11,467 I was like, "What the hell?" You know? And... 374 00:18:11,467 --> 00:18:13,066 I told him that was laughable. 375 00:18:13,066 --> 00:18:15,000 It was... Dude, what the hell? 376 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,567 You know. Get a divorce. 377 00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:18,433 Are you kidding? 378 00:18:19,367 --> 00:18:20,266 [scoffs] 379 00:18:20,667 --> 00:18:21,834 I kind of blew it off. 380 00:18:22,667 --> 00:18:24,266 I didn't think nothing of it, you know. 381 00:18:24,266 --> 00:18:26,767 Like, probably he's... He's lost his dad marbles. 382 00:18:26,767 --> 00:18:28,166 You know, he'll do the right thing. 383 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,100 And then, uh, 384 00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:32,166 he offers me $20,000 to kill 'em. 385 00:18:36,166 --> 00:18:38,467 He was like, "Well, I'll up it to $20,000." 386 00:18:38,467 --> 00:18:40,000 He goes, "I even have a plan." 387 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,467 He says, "This Wednesday, I'll be barbecuing. 388 00:18:43,467 --> 00:18:46,100 I'm gonna leave a .22 out behind the shed." 389 00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:48,467 He said, "I want you to shoot me in the arm, try and miss the bone, 390 00:18:48,467 --> 00:18:50,433 shoot my wife and kid in the head and chest. 391 00:18:51,166 --> 00:18:52,300 You know, vital shots, 392 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:54,967 and then take out as many neighbor kids as you need to, 393 00:18:54,967 --> 00:18:56,700 to make it not look so isolated." 394 00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:59,400 He says, "Then run down the hill. 395 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:00,500 There'll be a car waiting for you." 396 00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:02,734 Bob had this big plan, this big, elaborate plan 397 00:19:03,567 --> 00:19:05,066 for me to-to get away with it. 398 00:19:05,867 --> 00:19:08,000 No way, man. [chuckles] 399 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,266 [Roger] Well, it was so outrageous, 400 00:19:10,266 --> 00:19:13,033 I'm not even sure what I said to him, but I blew him off. 401 00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:16,634 I never thought in a million years he could kill anybody. 402 00:19:17,867 --> 00:19:20,367 I think he probably thought he could talk me into it. 403 00:19:20,367 --> 00:19:23,567 Maybe I was that... He thought I was that much of a follower, 404 00:19:23,567 --> 00:19:26,066 or that we were that close of friends that I could do him a favor. 405 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,734 I was trying to be the friend... 406 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:30,867 to listen to him vent. 407 00:19:30,867 --> 00:19:32,767 And I figured if he talked about it long enough, 408 00:19:32,767 --> 00:19:34,634 he'd realize how ridiculous he was being. 409 00:19:36,266 --> 00:19:37,634 [Bob] I can make it worth your while. 410 00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:41,767 Look, Bob, this isn't funny, man. 411 00:19:41,767 --> 00:19:42,734 You're making a joke, right? 412 00:19:43,367 --> 00:19:44,967 Yeah, but he wasn't joking. 413 00:19:44,967 --> 00:19:46,367 What, do you need more money? 414 00:19:46,367 --> 00:19:48,567 [Roger] He says, "Look, what's it gonna take?" 415 00:19:48,567 --> 00:19:49,567 Just name your price. 416 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:52,266 [Roger] And I said this... 417 00:19:52,266 --> 00:19:54,100 Still trying just to get him to-to drop it. 418 00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:56,100 And I said, um, "$23,000." 419 00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:58,000 He goes, "Fine. For $23,000, 420 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,600 I don't want to know when, and I don't want to know where. 421 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,000 I just want it done." 422 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,967 And he says, "And no funny stuff with my wife." 423 00:20:03,767 --> 00:20:06,166 I'm like, "Okay, bud. Whatever." 424 00:20:06,166 --> 00:20:08,033 And I blew it off, and that was it. 425 00:20:18,567 --> 00:20:20,767 When I called my mother, she was crying. 426 00:20:20,767 --> 00:20:22,367 "Something terrible has happened." 427 00:20:22,367 --> 00:20:24,967 Wait. What happened? 428 00:20:24,967 --> 00:20:27,400 And she told me Bob's wife and kid have fallen off a cliff in the gorge. 429 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,367 They're dead. 430 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:32,066 I think I dropped the phone. 431 00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:35,066 I felt ill. 432 00:20:36,567 --> 00:20:40,500 I felt anxiety, and I wanted to throw up. 433 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:42,233 I just, I knew it wasn't an accident. 434 00:20:50,667 --> 00:20:52,233 Well, that's the cliff. [sighs] 435 00:20:56,667 --> 00:21:00,100 Bob said that they were up on the cliff, supposedly picnicking. 436 00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:03,066 Erik was chasing a lizard and got too close to the edge. 437 00:21:03,066 --> 00:21:05,367 And Liana went to grab him and they both went over 438 00:21:08,567 --> 00:21:10,467 So, this cliff would be the equivalent... 439 00:21:10,467 --> 00:21:12,000 Eight hundred and eighty feet is the equivalent 440 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,200 to about an 18-story drop. 441 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,934 From this drop, it, no one would survive that. 442 00:21:19,066 --> 00:21:22,533 And it would be a very brutal and very painful 443 00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:24,233 and terrifying way to die. 444 00:21:26,567 --> 00:21:27,667 This is a huge cliff. 445 00:21:28,467 --> 00:21:29,867 To, uh, walk out on that, 446 00:21:29,867 --> 00:21:32,567 I don't know if you can see the picture or not, 447 00:21:32,567 --> 00:21:34,767 there's no safe place to picnic on that cliff. 448 00:21:34,767 --> 00:21:36,467 And it's all loose shale. 449 00:21:36,467 --> 00:21:37,867 It's very foreboding and treacherous. 450 00:21:37,867 --> 00:21:40,066 It's not a place you would take your family for picnic. 451 00:21:41,567 --> 00:21:43,867 Wyoming, especially this area, 452 00:21:43,867 --> 00:21:46,166 especially out towards the Flaming Gorge Reservoir area, 453 00:21:46,166 --> 00:21:47,867 the wind always blows. 454 00:21:47,867 --> 00:21:49,900 So, on this particular, 455 00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:51,600 on this particular cliff, 456 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,333 it's, it's easily a 30, 40 miles an hour consistent wind. 457 00:21:54,667 --> 00:21:56,400 I mean, uh, 458 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,867 on a calm day, it's 30 miles an hour. 459 00:21:58,867 --> 00:22:00,767 There's no absolutely, positively no way 460 00:22:00,767 --> 00:22:02,467 that Liana got out of that Jeep 461 00:22:02,467 --> 00:22:03,767 or let Erik get out of Jeep and said, 462 00:22:03,767 --> 00:22:05,667 "This is a great place, let's picnic." 463 00:22:05,667 --> 00:22:07,867 No mother would let their child get out of the Jeep 464 00:22:07,867 --> 00:22:09,000 in a cliff like that. 465 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,000 It's, it just, it didn't happen. 466 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,166 I think that, uh, 467 00:22:12,867 --> 00:22:14,066 that Bob used this cliff 468 00:22:14,967 --> 00:22:16,734 because he had some sort of plan, 469 00:22:17,166 --> 00:22:19,000 as, uh, the family man 470 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,100 with the family outing gone wrong. 471 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:22,934 I knew immediately it wasn't an accident. 472 00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:40,066 A few of us were there, like, I think her sister was there. 473 00:22:40,066 --> 00:22:41,467 A couple of family friends. 474 00:22:41,467 --> 00:22:43,066 And Bob was nowhere to be found. 475 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:46,467 It's, like, an hour and a half. 476 00:22:46,467 --> 00:22:48,166 I went through, like, a box and a half of tissues. 477 00:22:49,266 --> 00:22:50,734 And, uh, he finally shows up. 478 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,000 Well, apparently, he was already planning the funeral. 479 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,567 The day he killed 'em, he was off picking caskets and stuff. 480 00:23:00,567 --> 00:23:01,967 It was crazy. 481 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,834 And he says, "Come outside with me for a minute." 482 00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:11,066 So, we go outside. 483 00:23:12,467 --> 00:23:14,300 And he makes sure this door is closed, 484 00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:15,266 the storm door is closed, 485 00:23:15,266 --> 00:23:16,567 and he looks up at both windows 486 00:23:16,567 --> 00:23:17,867 to make sure they're closed. 487 00:23:19,867 --> 00:23:20,800 He looks me dead in the eye and says, 488 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,734 "I need to know you believe I didn't do this." 489 00:23:28,166 --> 00:23:30,367 And so, that answered any, any question I had, 490 00:23:30,367 --> 00:23:31,967 that answered any doubt I had right there. 491 00:23:33,867 --> 00:23:37,100 And, you know, in my mind's eye, 492 00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:39,533 you know how they say your life flashes before you, before you die? 493 00:23:40,166 --> 00:23:41,567 Like, I had three seconds, 494 00:23:41,567 --> 00:23:43,400 three minutes worth of conversation in my head 495 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,367 in a split second, thinking, 496 00:23:45,367 --> 00:23:48,100 "This had better be, like, the best goddamn acting you've ever done. 497 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:49,967 You know, 'cause your life depends on it." 498 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:54,934 So, I looked at him and I said, 499 00:23:54,934 --> 00:23:57,867 "No, no, no. I know we talked about this. 500 00:23:57,867 --> 00:23:58,734 I know we talked about this, 501 00:23:58,734 --> 00:24:00,100 but there's no way you could've done that. 502 00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,867 I, you know, no, it didn't even cross my mind, dude." 503 00:24:02,867 --> 00:24:05,567 You know? And so I sold it to him. 504 00:24:05,567 --> 00:24:08,066 You would never do anything to either of them. 505 00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:11,934 Like, he knew I knew. 506 00:24:12,266 --> 00:24:14,300 Okay. 507 00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:17,934 But I was letting him know that he had nothing to worry about because 508 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,834 you know, who's gonna believe me? 509 00:24:35,266 --> 00:24:37,100 So, instantly I know it's not... 510 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:38,467 It's not an accident. 511 00:24:38,467 --> 00:24:40,266 Now I'm a target 'cause I know too much. 512 00:24:40,266 --> 00:24:41,600 And if he's willing to kill his wife and kid, 513 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,266 you know, I'm just a loose end 514 00:24:43,266 --> 00:24:45,066 and something's gonna happen to me. 515 00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:47,900 I couldn't go to the police. 516 00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:48,900 I mean, there's no way. 517 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:49,867 I was, uh... 518 00:24:51,166 --> 00:24:53,800 I was very well known 519 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,734 to the police department, to the community. 520 00:24:56,667 --> 00:24:57,934 I was a [bleep] person. 521 00:24:58,767 --> 00:25:00,767 I was a drug addict. I sold drugs. 522 00:25:01,166 --> 00:25:02,266 I robbed people. 523 00:25:03,166 --> 00:25:04,367 My word was worthless. 524 00:25:04,367 --> 00:25:06,467 I had no credibility whatsoever. 525 00:25:06,467 --> 00:25:08,000 Uh, even if I went to the police, 526 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,166 they would laugh me outta there. 527 00:25:21,967 --> 00:25:25,934 I think that his mom might've asked me to be a pall-bearer. 528 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,634 I would've volunteered to do it. 529 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,100 You know, I felt responsible. 530 00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:33,467 I wanted to crawl under a rock. 531 00:25:33,467 --> 00:25:35,000 That's what I wanted to do. [chuckles softly] 532 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,066 And, uh, to help carry that casket, 533 00:25:37,066 --> 00:25:39,467 just, it tore me up pretty good. 534 00:25:39,467 --> 00:25:40,800 I had to be a pall-bearer for his son, 535 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:41,767 knowing he killed him. 536 00:25:43,667 --> 00:25:45,266 Knowing that if I had said something, 537 00:25:45,266 --> 00:25:47,400 maybe they still would be here. 538 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,033 That was really hard. 539 00:25:49,567 --> 00:25:50,734 So... 540 00:25:51,266 --> 00:25:52,533 [sighs and clears throat] 541 00:25:55,967 --> 00:25:56,934 [sniffles] 542 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:58,667 [crying softly] 543 00:25:58,667 --> 00:26:01,934 It was tough to carry him to his final resting place. 544 00:26:02,667 --> 00:26:04,233 'Cause the kid deserves more than that. 545 00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:12,400 Bob never cried. 546 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,333 I've never seen him shed a single tear over any of it. 547 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,066 But there was crying everywhere. 548 00:26:17,066 --> 00:26:19,367 And, uh, Bob never shed a tear the whole time. 549 00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:21,934 He didn't cry at the funeral, 550 00:26:21,934 --> 00:26:23,700 he didn't cry the day he killed him. 551 00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:26,500 Everyone thought he was just in shock. 552 00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:29,467 And I had really wanted nothing to do with him after that. 553 00:26:29,467 --> 00:26:30,600 And it's... I stayed away. 554 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,066 I didn't hang out with him, I didn't do any work for him. 555 00:26:33,066 --> 00:26:35,000 We weren't pals anymore. 556 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,266 Uh, I wanted to distance myself as much as I could from him. 557 00:26:38,266 --> 00:26:39,400 You know, [sighs] 558 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,767 I couldn't stomach being around him. 559 00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:45,834 And if, and if the isolation triggered some sort of, 560 00:26:46,567 --> 00:26:48,900 uh, you know, suspicion in him, 561 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:50,467 then so be it. 562 00:26:50,467 --> 00:26:51,400 But I couldn't be around him. 563 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,834 I couldn't go hang out with him, I... 564 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:55,767 And he, he was a... 565 00:26:55,767 --> 00:26:57,066 Dude, he was a murderer. 566 00:26:57,066 --> 00:26:58,266 He was a monster. 567 00:27:09,367 --> 00:27:12,000 When he moved to Texas, I was actually kinda relieved. 568 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:12,967 He was outta town. 569 00:27:12,967 --> 00:27:13,800 I didn't have to see him anymore. 570 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,367 I didn't have to worry about him anymore. 571 00:27:15,367 --> 00:27:18,867 I didn't say anything to anyone about it for the longest time. 572 00:27:18,867 --> 00:27:21,166 In fact, I, I, I buried it. 573 00:27:21,166 --> 00:27:23,400 I just pretended like it didn't happen. 574 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:24,767 And then he called me from Texas 575 00:27:24,767 --> 00:27:25,834 and brought it all back. 576 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,533 He said something that made my skin crawl. 577 00:27:30,367 --> 00:27:32,667 He said to me, "I've done family before. 578 00:27:32,667 --> 00:27:34,066 I didn't care for it. 579 00:27:34,066 --> 00:27:35,734 Will you kill my parents?" 580 00:27:41,367 --> 00:27:42,433 [Roger] Bob called me out of the blue. 581 00:27:43,367 --> 00:27:45,300 And I'm like, "So, what's going on?" 582 00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:48,967 You know, I'm trying to make small talk and he's like, 583 00:27:48,967 --> 00:27:51,266 "I'm making money, but I have an opportunity to make more money." 584 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,166 Uh, okay. What did you have in mind? 585 00:27:54,166 --> 00:27:56,800 That's when he said, "Look, I've done family before. 586 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,133 I want my parents murdered." 587 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,066 When he said, "I had done family before 588 00:28:03,066 --> 00:28:04,600 and I didn't care for it," 589 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,300 that's the only thing it could've meant for me, 590 00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:08,467 is that he'd killed his wife and kid. 591 00:28:08,467 --> 00:28:10,000 And that he wanted his parents dead 592 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,467 and he wasn't willing to do it. 593 00:28:11,467 --> 00:28:13,066 He was trying to outsource it. 594 00:28:14,867 --> 00:28:16,000 Then he straight told me, 595 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,166 "If you don't do it, someone else will." 596 00:28:18,166 --> 00:28:19,634 You know, 'cause he... 597 00:28:19,634 --> 00:28:21,900 Him and his brother had taken a life insurance policy out of their parents. 598 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:23,634 Like, half a million dollar life insurance policy. 599 00:28:25,266 --> 00:28:26,033 "I know you need the money. 600 00:28:26,033 --> 00:28:27,600 That's why I'm offering you first. 601 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:28,967 It's worth $20,000." 602 00:28:30,166 --> 00:28:32,400 And I was like, Jesus Christ. You know, here we go again. 603 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,467 I'm like, "Well, let me think about it. Let me sleep on it." 604 00:28:34,467 --> 00:28:35,433 Click, you know... 605 00:28:41,467 --> 00:28:43,467 And I was, I was like, "Man, I can't, 606 00:28:43,467 --> 00:28:45,867 I cannot watch people die at his hands again 607 00:28:45,867 --> 00:28:48,166 knowing full well that I could've done something about it." 608 00:28:50,567 --> 00:28:52,000 And I know what he's capable of. 609 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,400 He murdered the two people in the world that trusted him the most. 610 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,934 I mean, he murdered his flesh and blood. 611 00:29:00,667 --> 00:29:02,000 I had to do something. 612 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,867 I had to say something to someone. 613 00:29:03,867 --> 00:29:05,667 But what was I gonna say? 614 00:29:05,667 --> 00:29:08,400 You know? [chuckles softly] Who was I gonna go to? 615 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,667 Who would've believed me? 616 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,000 I didn't expect him to believe me. 617 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,200 But he was the only person I could go to. 618 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,567 And I'm like, "Dad. Here's the deal, man. 619 00:29:28,567 --> 00:29:30,934 This is [bleep] up, but you have to hear this." 620 00:29:31,567 --> 00:29:32,700 My dad knew my history. 621 00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:34,333 He knew my drinking and my drugging. 622 00:29:35,266 --> 00:29:36,533 I've never been a liar, 623 00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:39,066 but he still didn't believe me. 624 00:29:40,166 --> 00:29:41,400 I mean, my dad didn't believe me. 625 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,100 My own dad, who I worked with for 20 years 626 00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:44,600 and my best friend in the world. 627 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,100 We were side by side, I mean, since I was 12 years old. 628 00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:50,233 And [chuckles] he even didn't believe me. 629 00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:52,767 It was unnerving. 630 00:29:52,767 --> 00:29:54,533 Please, Dad, I need your help. 631 00:29:55,867 --> 00:29:58,467 I said, "But this is really, really real. 632 00:29:58,467 --> 00:29:59,867 And this is happening right now." 633 00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:02,266 And then he told me straight up, 634 00:30:02,266 --> 00:30:03,867 "Well, if you truly do believe this, 635 00:30:03,867 --> 00:30:05,567 then you need to get a hold of the police." 636 00:30:18,266 --> 00:30:20,533 Met him in a ballpark middle of the night, 637 00:30:21,066 --> 00:30:22,333 lights off. 638 00:30:22,333 --> 00:30:24,667 Got in the car and told him, you know, this is what's happening. 639 00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:26,233 What do I do? 640 00:30:27,367 --> 00:30:29,000 And he's like, "Well, I'm glad you came to me, 641 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,266 but we need to make, get proof of this 642 00:30:30,266 --> 00:30:34,900 'cause it sounds really, really farfetched, Rog, even for you." 643 00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:37,100 He and another detective came to the house and said, 644 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:39,600 "Okay, we're gonna set this phone up for a tap 645 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,734 to get these recorded to see if there's any weight in your story." 646 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,967 The FBI and the local PD were recording these conversations. 647 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,934 That was a conversation recorded 648 00:31:42,867 --> 00:31:43,967 where Bob had instructed me 649 00:31:43,967 --> 00:31:45,834 how he wanted me to kill his parents. 650 00:31:46,667 --> 00:31:48,133 I could use a .22. 651 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,300 I felt terrible anxiety 652 00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:55,667 and an almost crippling fear, actually. 653 00:31:55,667 --> 00:31:57,767 The whole time I was talking to him, 654 00:31:57,767 --> 00:32:00,567 and even listening to myself in this recording, 655 00:32:00,567 --> 00:32:03,500 I don't know how he did not get a catch on. 656 00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:06,166 'Cause I sound nervous as hell in this. 657 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,266 I was trying to act casual. 658 00:32:08,266 --> 00:32:10,100 They told me, don't talk casual. 659 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:11,467 Act like you might wanna do this, 660 00:32:11,467 --> 00:32:13,667 you know, they were giving me some coaching. 661 00:32:13,667 --> 00:32:16,500 But I even sound nervous to myself in that. 662 00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:18,567 All this stuff ran through my mind. 663 00:32:18,567 --> 00:32:21,567 I mean, the what ifs the, the hows, 664 00:32:21,567 --> 00:32:23,166 the how can-- 665 00:32:23,166 --> 00:32:25,166 How can it possibly go right? 666 00:32:25,166 --> 00:32:27,166 Let alone how can it go wrong? 667 00:32:29,166 --> 00:32:30,767 A lot hinged on this. 668 00:32:30,767 --> 00:32:31,767 A lot. 669 00:32:31,767 --> 00:32:33,667 My safety, his parents' safety, 670 00:32:33,667 --> 00:32:36,700 this could also quite possibly op-- 671 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:38,967 reopen maybe he killed his wife and kid. 672 00:32:41,367 --> 00:32:43,700 When I hung the phone up, I gave my father a hug. 673 00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:45,367 I said, "Dad, we got him. It's done." 674 00:32:47,367 --> 00:32:49,000 I always wanted it to end. 675 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,233 I didn't wanna have to deal with Bob Duke ever again. 676 00:33:35,867 --> 00:33:37,900 [Roger] The whole thing was terrifying. 677 00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:41,100 But one of his, uh, testimonies during trial 678 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:43,567 was that this was all just a joke. 679 00:33:43,567 --> 00:33:45,667 And I don't hear any joking in that. 680 00:33:45,667 --> 00:33:47,166 Not a single bit. 681 00:33:48,066 --> 00:33:49,767 He was planning the murder 682 00:33:49,767 --> 00:33:51,333 and he was planning to murder me too. 683 00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:54,166 The FBI said beyond a shot of a doubt, 684 00:33:54,166 --> 00:33:55,500 that he would've killed me, 685 00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:57,367 made it look like a murder suicide. 686 00:33:57,367 --> 00:33:59,266 Like I killed them and then killed myself 687 00:33:59,266 --> 00:34:01,000 because I knew too much. 688 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,634 And Bob knew I knew too much. 689 00:34:05,967 --> 00:34:07,767 So, I was a dead man the whole time. 690 00:34:07,767 --> 00:34:09,533 He was just biding his time. 691 00:34:13,667 --> 00:34:15,400 That's where the FBI had told me 692 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,367 to see if I could get him to say, 693 00:34:17,367 --> 00:34:19,834 "I'd done family before. I didn't care for it." 694 00:34:44,667 --> 00:34:45,700 I remember he asked me if, 695 00:34:45,700 --> 00:34:47,266 "You're not talking to anybody, are you?" 696 00:34:47,266 --> 00:34:48,400 That was, that was terrifying. 697 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:49,900 'Cause in the back of my mind, 698 00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:52,667 I just knew that he was gonna catch on. 699 00:34:52,667 --> 00:34:55,433 And the whole time I was surrounded by cops in my parents' house. 700 00:34:56,367 --> 00:34:58,567 It felt like he could see through the phone. 701 00:34:59,367 --> 00:35:01,066 And, uh, yeah, it was scary. 702 00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:13,400 I heard a knock on his door and he says, "Hold on a second." 703 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,266 I heard him put the phone on the counter and go to the door 704 00:35:16,266 --> 00:35:18,200 and I heard someone bust the door open 705 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,467 and I heard, "What the [bleep]? " 706 00:35:19,467 --> 00:35:20,700 I heard, "Up against the wall." 707 00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:23,233 And I heard a bunch of rustling around for, like, 30 seconds. 708 00:35:23,667 --> 00:35:24,800 Like, just chaos. 709 00:35:25,867 --> 00:35:28,266 He says, "This is agent Sullen, so you can hang up now." 710 00:35:28,266 --> 00:35:29,166 Click. And that was over. 711 00:35:29,166 --> 00:35:30,166 It was over. He was busted. 712 00:35:30,166 --> 00:35:32,367 And I'm like, "It's done, it's over." 713 00:35:34,567 --> 00:35:36,166 That wasn't over. [laughs] 714 00:35:36,667 --> 00:35:38,166 That was just the beginning. 715 00:35:43,567 --> 00:35:45,567 [Roger] I thought in my mind I didn't have to be afraid. 716 00:35:45,567 --> 00:35:47,600 I thought that finally, my family and I were safe. 717 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,300 And, you know, um... 718 00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:50,433 He was behind bars, 719 00:35:50,433 --> 00:35:52,667 and I figured he'd be behind bars for a very long time. 720 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,033 So, I celebrated. 721 00:35:55,033 --> 00:35:56,567 You know, Bob's finally under arrest 722 00:35:56,567 --> 00:36:00,467 and, you know, he's gonna answer for his crimes. 723 00:36:00,467 --> 00:36:02,834 You know, I thought, "It's over, he's going to prison for life." 724 00:36:04,467 --> 00:36:05,600 Murder for hire, 725 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:06,767 that's not what they got him on. 726 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,467 After they got him, 727 00:36:19,467 --> 00:36:22,166 um, he applied to interstate commerce, 728 00:36:22,166 --> 00:36:25,166 which is using interstate phone lines to plot or commit a crime. 729 00:36:25,166 --> 00:36:26,634 So, they don't have to take it to trial. 730 00:36:28,266 --> 00:36:29,333 I was really angry. 731 00:36:29,333 --> 00:36:30,934 You know, I'm thinking, "He's going away for life." 732 00:36:31,667 --> 00:36:33,100 He's doing 10 years federal, 733 00:36:33,100 --> 00:36:36,166 which means he'll do 80 to 85 % of his time. 734 00:36:36,166 --> 00:36:39,100 Which means in eight years from the time he's convicted, 735 00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:41,767 I will have to worry about my safety, 736 00:36:41,767 --> 00:36:44,467 the safety of my family. 737 00:36:44,467 --> 00:36:45,900 I'm like, "Holy crap, man. 738 00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:47,867 So, in eight years, I'm a dead man." 739 00:36:47,867 --> 00:36:48,800 And when he gets out of prison, 740 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,567 I'm gonna have to protect my family. 741 00:36:52,867 --> 00:36:55,066 I'm thinking he's thinking of 10,000 different ways up there 742 00:36:55,066 --> 00:36:57,266 to kill me and hurt me every day he's locked up, 743 00:36:57,266 --> 00:36:58,900 'cause he knows it was me. 744 00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:00,867 [chuckles nervously] And yeah, I think I'm, I'm in danger. 745 00:37:00,867 --> 00:37:02,033 My family's in danger. 746 00:37:03,767 --> 00:37:04,900 But it was also enough 747 00:37:04,900 --> 00:37:07,500 to pique the interest of the local prosecutor saying, 748 00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:08,667 "Well, hell, if he killed his parents, 749 00:37:08,667 --> 00:37:10,533 what's to say he didn't murder his wife and kid?" 750 00:37:27,066 --> 00:37:29,734 So, during the trial, I was the first witness, key witness. 751 00:37:31,767 --> 00:37:33,900 You know, he was a big, burly guy, you know? 752 00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:36,367 In prison orange, and he looked all scary and... 753 00:37:36,367 --> 00:37:39,567 And, uh, I'm like, "Man, I'm gonna have to face him in court. 754 00:37:39,567 --> 00:37:40,634 How am I gonna do that?" 755 00:37:42,767 --> 00:37:44,900 And so, I got on the stand and he was staring at me, 756 00:37:44,900 --> 00:37:46,967 and I'm like, "You know what? I'm here because of you." 757 00:37:46,967 --> 00:37:48,900 You know, and that's the attitude I had. 758 00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:51,200 And, uh, this has taken my life. 759 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,867 You've disturbed my life with this crap. 760 00:37:52,867 --> 00:37:55,100 And I started... I stared him down. 761 00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:56,367 And the whole rest of the trial, 762 00:37:56,367 --> 00:37:57,767 he would make eye contact with me. 763 00:37:59,667 --> 00:38:02,900 Exactly like it was just back on the steps at seventh grade. 764 00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:04,266 And he put me in that position. 765 00:38:04,266 --> 00:38:05,767 And I had had enough. 766 00:38:05,767 --> 00:38:09,000 I had enough of, of, of him disturbing my life 767 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:09,900 and bullying me around 768 00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:11,567 and treating me like a piece of garbage 769 00:38:11,567 --> 00:38:13,066 and that I wasn't worth anything. 770 00:38:18,166 --> 00:38:19,367 Mmm. 771 00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:22,967 Looking at a picture of Bob Duke. 772 00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:24,967 This is, uh, 773 00:38:24,967 --> 00:38:27,634 either just before the trial or just after the trial. 774 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,600 It's scary looking. 775 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,166 He looks like the murderer that he is. 776 00:38:34,667 --> 00:38:36,600 He had no life in his eyes during the trial. 777 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,000 It was scary. 778 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,700 Uh, even my parents said... 779 00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:42,000 They had mentioned it, 'cause they knew Bob growing up. 780 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,000 He'd installed the carpet at my parents' house, 781 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,567 and he'd come over to the house. 782 00:38:45,567 --> 00:38:47,767 You know, my parents knew Bob, I knew Bob's parents. 783 00:38:47,767 --> 00:38:51,166 And they even said, "Wow, that's, that's not Bob. 784 00:38:51,166 --> 00:38:53,133 That's, that's a monster, that's scary." 785 00:38:54,567 --> 00:38:55,967 And if you look at this photo, 786 00:38:55,967 --> 00:38:58,166 you can actually... you're looking into his eyes. 787 00:38:58,567 --> 00:38:59,467 They look dead. 788 00:38:59,467 --> 00:39:01,200 They look like a shark's eyes to me. 789 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,166 I mean, that is... 790 00:39:02,867 --> 00:39:04,734 That's the eyes of evil right there. 791 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,200 The person in this photo 792 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,300 is not the Bob Duke I grew up with. 793 00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:11,800 Absolutely not. 794 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,600 And yes, I do feel fear from this. 795 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,367 Just looking at this photo scares me. 796 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,033 Because he was a scary dude. 797 00:39:18,567 --> 00:39:20,834 At the end, he was scary. 798 00:39:37,967 --> 00:39:40,266 When I found out that he was guilty on six counts, 799 00:39:40,266 --> 00:39:42,166 it truly felt like it was over now. 800 00:39:44,867 --> 00:39:46,166 Well, people [sighs] 801 00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:48,200 people, you know, "Hey, good job," blah, blah, blah. 802 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:49,700 "You're a hero," and this, that and the other. 803 00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:51,600 And, "I'm so proud of you for doing that." 804 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,100 I tell them, you know, I did the only thing I could do. 805 00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:56,367 'Cause at the end of the day, I've gotta look myself in the mirror. 806 00:39:58,667 --> 00:40:01,600 So, how I get through the day is, what happened happened. 807 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:02,834 I can't undo that. 808 00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:05,367 I did save his parents life. 809 00:40:05,367 --> 00:40:06,867 He's behind bars where he belongs. 810 00:40:06,867 --> 00:40:09,233 And, you know, I just, I move on. 811 00:40:09,767 --> 00:40:10,867 I, I live my life. 812 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,000 Yeah, I have regrets. 813 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,166 I regret-- I have a lot of regrets. 814 00:40:16,166 --> 00:40:17,667 And when the trial ended 815 00:40:17,667 --> 00:40:20,166 and he got six life sentences out of it, 816 00:40:20,166 --> 00:40:23,967 I felt like his wife and son could finally rest, so. 817 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:25,767 [sniffles] 818 00:40:25,767 --> 00:40:27,533 I felt like I did them justice. 819 00:40:30,367 --> 00:40:31,867 I was talking to her mom and dad, 820 00:40:31,867 --> 00:40:34,000 and listening to them praise me and thank me, 821 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,200 and all I could do was think about it. 822 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,433 I wish I could've done more. 823 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,000 [sniffles] 824 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,767 I wish I, uh, done [bleep] differently. 825 00:40:43,967 --> 00:40:45,300 So... 826 00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:48,734 I wish I could've believed that he was capable of it. [crying softly] 827 00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,266 They would still be here. [sniffles] 828 00:40:55,467 --> 00:40:56,467 It's been rodeo, man. 829 00:40:56,467 --> 00:40:58,367 And I felt like the clown through most of it. 830 00:40:58,767 --> 00:40:59,967 But, uh, 831 00:40:59,967 --> 00:41:01,567 you know, it came out the way it needed to come out, 832 00:41:01,567 --> 00:41:03,367 and any friends that I might've lost through this 833 00:41:03,367 --> 00:41:04,667 weren't true friends anyway. 834 00:41:04,667 --> 00:41:08,200 And people in the community that will gossip no matter what, 835 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,767 they can all kiss my rosy red [bleep]. 836 00:41:10,767 --> 00:41:11,600 You know? [laughs] 837 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,567 And, uh, you know, I did what I had to do 838 00:41:13,567 --> 00:41:15,266 and I saved a couple of people's lives, 839 00:41:15,266 --> 00:41:16,967 and I'm, I got through it. 840 00:41:16,967 --> 00:41:19,533 I'm a survivor, not a victim, so. 841 00:41:20,967 --> 00:41:23,066 And I'd do it again if I had to.