1 00:00:06,310 --> 00:00:08,379 [Debra] I think it's the right time 2 00:00:08,379 --> 00:00:12,793 for me to do this interview, because I feel like 3 00:00:12,793 --> 00:00:17,482 it was important to maybe let others know 4 00:00:17,482 --> 00:00:18,827 that it's OK... 5 00:00:19,689 --> 00:00:21,172 [producer speaks indistinctly] 6 00:00:21,172 --> 00:00:23,379 ...let people know 7 00:00:23,379 --> 00:00:26,896 not to be ashamed, not to be afraid that people are gonna 8 00:00:26,896 --> 00:00:30,931 look down on you, I erroneously thought things 9 00:00:31,689 --> 00:00:34,758 that weren't true, and I was 10 00:00:35,586 --> 00:00:38,172 mistakenly believing him. 11 00:00:38,172 --> 00:00:41,241 Everything he said to me, I believed. 12 00:00:42,689 --> 00:00:47,068 It's a shameful thing, what our family members did, 13 00:00:47,068 --> 00:00:50,137 but it isn't a reflection on us. 14 00:00:51,379 --> 00:00:54,793 Things go wrong with them, but that doesn't mean that 15 00:00:54,793 --> 00:00:56,379 it's in us. 16 00:00:56,379 --> 00:00:59,965 We just happen to share some genes. 17 00:01:00,068 --> 00:01:03,000 But I think it's time. 18 00:01:13,793 --> 00:01:16,655 [sighs heavily] 19 00:01:16,724 --> 00:01:20,000 You see this look? You see this look? 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,896 What a mean son of a bitch. Look at the face. 21 00:01:24,896 --> 00:01:26,413 Oh. 22 00:01:28,068 --> 00:01:30,724 This is the face of evil right here. 23 00:01:34,172 --> 00:01:35,827 So I thank God 24 00:01:36,827 --> 00:01:39,655 that through whatever means, 25 00:01:39,723 --> 00:01:42,689 I was not in his path of destruction. 26 00:01:42,689 --> 00:01:46,896 Right here, we're looking at a monster. 27 00:01:46,896 --> 00:01:51,000 Right here, you can see the evil in his black eyes. 28 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,551 I could slay him with my words. 29 00:01:53,620 --> 00:01:57,033 Hmm, you're a sorry piece of [bleep], 30 00:01:58,310 --> 00:02:01,896 and I'm glad that you can't hurt anybody anymore. 31 00:02:01,896 --> 00:02:07,896 I just wish that you would have died before all of this mess 32 00:02:07,896 --> 00:02:10,793 happened to these poor people, 33 00:02:10,793 --> 00:02:13,137 because you're nothing but a monster. 34 00:02:14,724 --> 00:02:19,275 Today, I can tell you, this is done. 35 00:02:19,275 --> 00:02:23,827 I will probably not speak about this bastard ever again. 36 00:02:32,310 --> 00:02:35,275 [The Paper Chase's "What's So Amazing About Grace?" plays] 37 00:02:35,275 --> 00:02:37,586 [strings continue playing sinister tune] 38 00:02:37,586 --> 00:02:42,103 [static crackling] 39 00:02:42,103 --> 00:02:44,586 -[knock at door] -[creaking] 40 00:02:44,586 --> 00:02:50,103 -[banging on door] -[creaking] 41 00:02:50,103 --> 00:02:55,482 -[banging on door] -[creaking] 42 00:02:55,482 --> 00:02:58,103 [water dripping] 43 00:02:58,103 --> 00:03:00,172 -[banging on door] -[creaking] 44 00:03:00,172 --> 00:03:02,827 [sinister chord strikes] 45 00:03:10,482 --> 00:03:14,413 [Debra] My mom and dad were high school sweethearts, 46 00:03:15,482 --> 00:03:17,827 they both grew up in Fort Lauderdale, 47 00:03:18,724 --> 00:03:22,862 and they married pretty young. 48 00:03:22,931 --> 00:03:28,724 When Jimmy came into the world, he was so small and so cute. 49 00:03:29,724 --> 00:03:34,000 I'm the older child, the older sibling, and I had 50 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,620 such a love in my heart for him. 51 00:03:37,586 --> 00:03:40,344 Jimmy was the baby of the family. 52 00:03:40,413 --> 00:03:42,275 And we just -- I doted on him. 53 00:03:42,275 --> 00:03:46,379 He was my little brother, and he was so cute. 54 00:03:46,379 --> 00:03:50,103 He did some things when he was little that were bad, 55 00:03:50,103 --> 00:03:54,965 but the trouble that he got into was not violent of 56 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,655 any kind, it was just very mischievous. 57 00:03:57,724 --> 00:04:03,586 It became a theme in our family because of his shenanigans. 58 00:04:03,586 --> 00:04:08,310 It was a lot, all the time. 59 00:04:10,517 --> 00:04:14,000 My brother Ricky or I never did the things he did. 60 00:04:16,896 --> 00:04:20,551 I had no inkling of what was to come down the wire, 61 00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:22,137 I'll tell you that. 62 00:04:23,896 --> 00:04:25,310 No inkling at all. 63 00:04:27,896 --> 00:04:31,517 You think you know someone? You really don't. 64 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,586 Even at a young age, he got in trouble outside the home. 65 00:05:00,586 --> 00:05:05,034 One incident happened where I noticed, across the street, 66 00:05:05,103 --> 00:05:08,137 the hose was in the front door of the house. 67 00:05:08,896 --> 00:05:11,172 Mom! 68 00:05:11,172 --> 00:05:14,586 The neighbors weren't at home at the time, but he had put 69 00:05:14,586 --> 00:05:17,517 that hose in their house and turned it on. 70 00:05:19,482 --> 00:05:23,034 And the house was flooded from this hose. 71 00:05:25,068 --> 00:05:29,344 My mom just ran across the street, got the hose out of 72 00:05:29,413 --> 00:05:30,655 the house, turned it off. 73 00:05:34,724 --> 00:05:37,172 I think their house would have been ruined 74 00:05:37,172 --> 00:05:39,000 if I hadn't have noticed. 75 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,344 It would have been a lot worse damage. 76 00:05:43,413 --> 00:05:46,241 So she asked Jimmy, "Did you do this? 77 00:05:46,310 --> 00:05:49,275 Did you put this hose in the people's house?" 78 00:05:49,275 --> 00:05:50,793 And he said, "Yeah." 79 00:05:50,793 --> 00:05:52,413 She said, "Why would you do that?" 80 00:05:53,172 --> 00:05:55,827 He said, "I don't know. I don't know." 81 00:05:56,793 --> 00:05:59,241 He never explained why he did it. 82 00:05:59,310 --> 00:06:02,793 He just said, "Yeah, I did it," and he laughed. 83 00:06:02,793 --> 00:06:04,275 But he admitted that. 84 00:06:04,275 --> 00:06:07,482 It was like one of the few things he had ever admitted to. 85 00:06:07,482 --> 00:06:13,931 And he got in trouble for it, but it didn't faze him at all. 86 00:06:16,172 --> 00:06:20,275 I mean, at this point, my dad would spank him. 87 00:06:20,275 --> 00:06:23,034 A lot of times, he would just smile. 88 00:06:25,068 --> 00:06:29,000 He would laugh and shrug it off as, "You didn't get me. 89 00:06:29,827 --> 00:06:32,965 You didn't penetrate this facade." 90 00:06:34,275 --> 00:06:37,241 I was seeing a dark side emerge from him. 91 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,862 His lack of emotion when he would get in trouble was 92 00:06:41,931 --> 00:06:44,931 something we all should have been a little concerned about. 93 00:06:56,931 --> 00:07:00,689 Jimmy never mentioned our mom once we were not 94 00:07:00,689 --> 00:07:04,965 with her anymore, never cried a tear. 95 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,448 And it didn't strike me as odd until I had children of my own. 96 00:07:09,517 --> 00:07:11,965 And then I thought back to that time and thought, 97 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,275 that's really weird that he never cried once for our mom. 98 00:07:17,275 --> 00:07:21,068 I cried for her, Ricky cried for her. 99 00:07:21,068 --> 00:07:23,000 Jimmy just didn't seem to care. 100 00:07:24,896 --> 00:07:29,137 His lack of emotions through things that were 101 00:07:29,206 --> 00:07:34,482 very life-altering was quite telling, 102 00:07:34,482 --> 00:07:36,655 although we didn't know it at the time. 103 00:07:36,724 --> 00:07:39,965 Looking back, I realized that was a big... 104 00:07:41,068 --> 00:07:45,379 a big flag that somebody should have picked up on, 105 00:07:45,379 --> 00:07:46,758 but nobody did. 106 00:08:01,586 --> 00:08:04,689 Jimmy's relationship with Stella was different from 107 00:08:04,689 --> 00:08:06,482 the very beginning. 108 00:08:06,482 --> 00:08:08,862 For some reason, he wouldn't give her 109 00:08:08,931 --> 00:08:10,517 the time of day. 110 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:15,275 I don't recall them ever having a normal conversation, ever. 111 00:08:15,275 --> 00:08:17,827 I believe Jimmy hated Stella. 112 00:08:18,793 --> 00:08:23,275 Without a shadow of a doubt, he hated Stella. 113 00:08:23,275 --> 00:08:27,724 And that's all he had for her was anger, just anger. 114 00:08:30,586 --> 00:08:33,688 Stella had a favorite lamp. 115 00:08:33,688 --> 00:08:37,827 And one day, it was broken when I came out of the bedroom. 116 00:08:43,102 --> 00:08:46,655 Stella came home, she saw the lamp was not there, 117 00:08:47,482 --> 00:08:50,275 and she was just beside herself. 118 00:08:50,275 --> 00:08:51,827 She was so angry. 119 00:08:52,620 --> 00:08:54,137 I didn't do it. 120 00:08:54,206 --> 00:08:56,275 Ricky wasn't home at the time, 121 00:08:56,275 --> 00:09:02,586 so she started grilling him about it, and he just kept 122 00:09:02,586 --> 00:09:04,517 denying it, "I didn't break the lamp." 123 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,758 "I didn't do it." That's what his response was. 124 00:09:09,827 --> 00:09:12,068 "I don't know. I didn't do it." 125 00:09:12,068 --> 00:09:14,000 And he would say nothing else. 126 00:09:15,275 --> 00:09:19,551 I knew he did it. He never admitted to it. 127 00:09:19,620 --> 00:09:22,068 He would take stuff from her that 128 00:09:22,068 --> 00:09:23,586 she liked or cared about. 129 00:09:23,586 --> 00:09:25,241 You know, he would break things. 130 00:09:25,310 --> 00:09:27,310 -What happened? -I don't know! 131 00:09:29,586 --> 00:09:32,241 Where in the world would you come up with doing 132 00:09:32,310 --> 00:09:34,827 that even? It's so destructive. 133 00:09:37,103 --> 00:09:41,379 The reason he did these things was as, uh, 134 00:09:41,379 --> 00:09:43,000 entertainment for himself. 135 00:09:45,689 --> 00:09:49,655 He thought they were funny, wanted to get a rise out of, 136 00:09:49,724 --> 00:09:52,551 just a rise out of anyone for anything. 137 00:10:05,103 --> 00:10:09,793 One day, Stella was out and about doing errands. 138 00:10:09,793 --> 00:10:13,689 When she came home, she was crying. 139 00:10:13,689 --> 00:10:18,862 She was very distraught. She was just hysterical. 140 00:10:18,931 --> 00:10:22,034 And I guess there were some kids that were rioting on 141 00:10:22,103 --> 00:10:23,586 a corner near our house. 142 00:10:23,586 --> 00:10:28,241 And as she drove by, one of the kids threw a brick at 143 00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:30,241 the front windshield of the car. 144 00:10:31,172 --> 00:10:34,379 Glass shattered all over Stella. 145 00:10:34,379 --> 00:10:36,103 If the brick hit her in the head, 146 00:10:36,103 --> 00:10:38,379 it would have killed her. 147 00:10:38,379 --> 00:10:40,965 -It was horrible. -[as Stella sobbing] 148 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,862 She's telling us what happened. 149 00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:45,896 [as Stella, sobbing] It was terrifying. 150 00:10:45,896 --> 00:10:50,172 Jimmy was right there with us, and Jimmy laughed. 151 00:10:50,172 --> 00:10:52,827 [laughing] 152 00:10:55,482 --> 00:10:58,379 [laughter continues] 153 00:10:58,379 --> 00:11:02,793 We told him, "This is not funny. This isn't funny at all." 154 00:11:02,793 --> 00:11:04,931 He says, "Yeah, I think it's pretty funny." 155 00:11:07,689 --> 00:11:08,896 Stop! 156 00:11:08,896 --> 00:11:11,517 -[Debra] Jimmy just laughed. -What? 157 00:11:12,206 --> 00:11:14,379 He just laughed. That's good. 158 00:11:14,379 --> 00:11:16,689 She deserved it. 159 00:11:16,689 --> 00:11:19,551 She didn't deserve that. What is wrong with you? 160 00:11:21,172 --> 00:11:25,379 Looking back now, I think that was another sign 161 00:11:25,379 --> 00:11:27,793 that we all missed. 162 00:11:27,793 --> 00:11:32,758 Because when you have pleasure at someone else's pain, 163 00:11:32,827 --> 00:11:35,103 there's something wrong with you. 164 00:11:52,068 --> 00:11:54,517 This is a picture of 165 00:11:55,310 --> 00:11:56,689 Jimmy. 166 00:11:57,206 --> 00:12:01,689 Smile was still there, but not the twinkle in his eye. 167 00:12:01,689 --> 00:12:03,931 That was gone. 168 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,793 He's not the innocent little kid anymore. 169 00:12:08,793 --> 00:12:11,103 He's changing, all right. He's changing. 170 00:12:11,103 --> 00:12:14,551 And, in this photo, he was changing to where 171 00:12:14,620 --> 00:12:18,379 he was a ma-- he wore a mask, I want to say. 172 00:12:18,379 --> 00:12:20,758 It's like he wore a mask. 173 00:12:20,758 --> 00:12:25,448 And everybody thought he was a good, nice boy, nice boy, 174 00:12:26,586 --> 00:12:30,931 which I think afforded him the luxury to do even worse 175 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,862 things, because nobody was suspecting him 176 00:12:34,862 --> 00:12:36,931 and his charming self. 177 00:12:39,206 --> 00:12:42,241 But what was starting to happen was, 178 00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:45,379 he...[sighs] 179 00:12:45,379 --> 00:12:47,931 He was doing more and more things 180 00:12:48,931 --> 00:12:53,206 that he would get in trouble for, serious things. 181 00:13:02,517 --> 00:13:06,344 Jimmy always just acted like he could do whatever he wanted. 182 00:13:06,413 --> 00:13:10,000 Nobody's gonna say anything to him. 183 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,034 I think at that time is when things started to 184 00:13:14,103 --> 00:13:17,068 change for him, and we just didn't know it. 185 00:13:17,068 --> 00:13:20,034 And then things just got worse as we went. 186 00:13:21,379 --> 00:13:23,827 One day, it was before I had to go to school, 187 00:13:23,896 --> 00:13:27,344 and my dad had told me that 188 00:13:27,413 --> 00:13:29,931 Jimmy was caught at the neighbor 189 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,448 Alice Stock's house. -Excuse me? 190 00:13:32,517 --> 00:13:34,517 [Debra] I said, what are you talking about? 191 00:13:35,379 --> 00:13:37,931 She was an elderly neighbor of ours. 192 00:13:39,103 --> 00:13:42,482 Jimmy was in the process of trying to steal something from 193 00:13:42,482 --> 00:13:46,620 her house when she woke up and saw him in there. 194 00:13:47,793 --> 00:13:52,379 Alice Stock recognized him and said, "You're Jimmy Rode. 195 00:13:52,379 --> 00:13:57,241 What are you doing in my house?" And Jimmy just fled, he fled. 196 00:13:59,896 --> 00:14:05,310 So the police came, and Jimmy denied it, as usual. 197 00:14:07,862 --> 00:14:11,758 Even though Alice Stock called the police on Jimmy, 198 00:14:11,758 --> 00:14:13,931 he didn't get arrested. 199 00:14:15,413 --> 00:14:20,068 We have her saying it did, we have him saying it didn't, 200 00:14:20,068 --> 00:14:22,241 but nothing ever came of that. 201 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,758 Jimmy sidestepped the whole situation. 202 00:14:26,758 --> 00:14:29,482 We're all crazy, he didn't do it. 203 00:14:29,482 --> 00:14:31,241 Dad just told me what happened. 204 00:14:32,172 --> 00:14:33,758 Nothing happened. 205 00:14:33,827 --> 00:14:38,275 [Debra] Now, a right-minded person would know that 206 00:14:38,275 --> 00:14:40,068 Alice Stock knew us well. 207 00:14:40,068 --> 00:14:44,034 We had been living there for quite some time, so there was 208 00:14:44,103 --> 00:14:47,551 no mistaking my brother. -I wasn't there. 209 00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:48,862 [as Debra] Seriously? 210 00:14:48,862 --> 00:14:52,103 [as Jimmy] I don't know who it was, but it wasn't me. 211 00:14:52,103 --> 00:14:56,689 [Debra] I didn't know at the time, but he had a weapon. 212 00:14:56,689 --> 00:15:02,068 He had taken a knife into her house and went at her with 213 00:15:02,068 --> 00:15:03,931 the knife and threatened her. 214 00:15:09,172 --> 00:15:13,344 Looking back, it was almost like he was anticipating 215 00:15:14,896 --> 00:15:18,172 getting ready to do even worse things to people. 216 00:15:18,172 --> 00:15:21,344 And he's, at this point, 217 00:15:22,896 --> 00:15:23,965 he's escalating. 218 00:15:31,172 --> 00:15:35,275 It eventually broke my stepmom and my dad up. 219 00:15:35,275 --> 00:15:38,931 They ended up splitting because of Jimmy. 220 00:15:40,103 --> 00:15:43,000 And I know he knew it was because of him. 221 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,586 I know he knew that. 222 00:15:44,586 --> 00:15:47,827 And I felt bad for her, she got thrust into this. 223 00:15:47,896 --> 00:15:50,379 She was an OK lady, she really was. 224 00:15:50,379 --> 00:15:52,172 She did the best she could with us. 225 00:15:52,172 --> 00:15:56,586 She just didn't know what to do with three grown kids. 226 00:15:56,586 --> 00:16:00,448 Jimmy really just kind of lived to spite her. 227 00:16:02,275 --> 00:16:06,275 And no matter what she said, he would just not even 228 00:16:06,275 --> 00:16:07,689 give her the time of day. 229 00:16:07,689 --> 00:16:10,103 Wouldn't even, he'd stop answering her even and just sit 230 00:16:10,103 --> 00:16:11,551 there and stare into space. 231 00:16:11,620 --> 00:16:15,000 We all underestimated his hatred of Stella, 232 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,724 even my dad -- we all underestimated that. 233 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,241 I was crushed. My dad was crushed. 234 00:16:33,275 --> 00:16:35,655 I wish that it would have been Jimmy, 235 00:16:35,724 --> 00:16:38,000 which is a horrible thing to say, 236 00:16:38,896 --> 00:16:42,275 but it's true. 237 00:16:42,275 --> 00:16:46,137 I really wish that it would have been the other way around. 238 00:16:48,275 --> 00:16:52,551 It was after that that Jimmy went all kinds of sideways. 239 00:17:01,482 --> 00:17:04,448 One evening, I got a call from my dad. 240 00:17:04,517 --> 00:17:06,550 [phone ringing] 241 00:17:06,619 --> 00:17:09,034 -[phone receiver clicks] -Hello? 242 00:17:09,103 --> 00:17:11,000 [Debra] And he was really upset. 243 00:17:11,689 --> 00:17:13,655 He asked me if I was sitting down. 244 00:17:13,723 --> 00:17:14,655 "Yeah, I'm sitting down. 245 00:17:14,655 --> 00:17:16,758 Don't tell me anybody else has died." 246 00:17:16,827 --> 00:17:17,964 What happened? 247 00:17:17,964 --> 00:17:21,827 He said, "No, but what has happened is your brother 248 00:17:22,378 --> 00:17:27,619 went over and got into Stella's house, and he raped her." 249 00:17:30,103 --> 00:17:33,586 I remember being incredulous, like I couldn't believe that 250 00:17:33,586 --> 00:17:35,000 it happened. 251 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,655 I never in a million years thought he would do anything 252 00:17:38,724 --> 00:17:41,758 like that to her or anybody else. 253 00:17:41,758 --> 00:17:46,000 She called my dad, who was at work, and apparently, when Jimmy 254 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,655 knocked at the door, she was startled, 255 00:17:49,724 --> 00:17:51,068 but she wasn't afraid. 256 00:17:51,068 --> 00:17:53,482 Like she did not -- otherwise, she wouldn't have let 257 00:17:53,482 --> 00:17:54,724 him in. 258 00:17:54,724 --> 00:17:59,068 She had no idea that he was there to do her any harm. 259 00:17:59,068 --> 00:18:00,758 -[as Stella] Jimmy. -[as Jimmy] Can I come in? 260 00:18:00,758 --> 00:18:03,379 [as Stella] Sure, yeah. 261 00:18:03,379 --> 00:18:07,103 [Debra] And then his look in his eyes changed, 262 00:18:07,103 --> 00:18:09,344 and Stella said he just 263 00:18:09,413 --> 00:18:11,931 got a whole cold look about him. 264 00:18:14,206 --> 00:18:19,172 And then he grabbed a hold of her, and I guess they wrestled 265 00:18:19,172 --> 00:18:22,517 around, and he ended up raping her. 266 00:18:24,620 --> 00:18:27,862 Jimmy told her, "If you tell anybody, I will come back, 267 00:18:27,862 --> 00:18:29,724 and I will kill you." 268 00:18:31,689 --> 00:18:36,137 I'm sure she must have been scared out of her mind. 269 00:18:37,413 --> 00:18:41,379 I never anticipated that kind of violence from him. 270 00:18:41,379 --> 00:18:43,724 And with Stella, 271 00:18:45,103 --> 00:18:48,000 it was...brutal. 272 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,379 I was sick to my stomach, and it's terrible. 273 00:18:51,379 --> 00:18:52,827 It's awful. 274 00:18:54,482 --> 00:18:56,241 She told us, "I'm not going to the police, 275 00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:59,034 "because if he finds out, he'll come back here, 276 00:18:59,103 --> 00:19:00,241 and he'll kill me." 277 00:19:00,241 --> 00:19:04,448 I tried so hard to get her to change her mind. 278 00:19:04,517 --> 00:19:05,758 She would have none of it. 279 00:19:05,758 --> 00:19:10,000 So I respected her wishes, and I didn't say anything. 280 00:19:19,172 --> 00:19:23,000 Well, after the incident happened, I came over to visit 281 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,344 my dad, and Jimmy came in, and we were right in the middle 282 00:19:26,413 --> 00:19:27,724 of talking about it. 283 00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:30,586 We just asked him, what -- "Is this true? 284 00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:31,862 "What did you do? 285 00:19:31,862 --> 00:19:34,137 "Jimmy, Stella says you raped her. 286 00:19:34,206 --> 00:19:36,310 So what, she's just making that crap up, dude?" 287 00:19:37,758 --> 00:19:39,931 "I guess. I guess. 288 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,344 She hates me so much." 289 00:19:41,413 --> 00:19:42,551 [as Debra's father] Just tell us what happened. 290 00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:44,000 [as Debra] What would she lie? 291 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,241 [as Jimmy] She's always had it out for me. 292 00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:48,827 -[Debra] Jimmy denied it. -I didn't do it! 293 00:19:50,482 --> 00:19:52,000 [Debra] There was nothing else to talk about. 294 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,827 We never spoke about it again. 295 00:19:55,275 --> 00:20:01,379 I believe he raped Stella because he was trying to exert 296 00:20:01,379 --> 00:20:04,310 his extreme power over her. 297 00:20:07,103 --> 00:20:11,586 I think it was absolutely more satisfaction to him that 298 00:20:11,586 --> 00:20:14,655 he knew she had to walk around and live with that. 299 00:20:16,413 --> 00:20:20,034 And then I felt even worse ashamed, 300 00:20:21,172 --> 00:20:22,758 in hindsight, looking back, 301 00:20:22,758 --> 00:20:25,172 that I didn't do anything about it. 302 00:20:25,172 --> 00:20:28,655 That was a really horrible thing. 303 00:20:29,275 --> 00:20:32,862 I acknowledge and I know that I didn't do 304 00:20:32,862 --> 00:20:34,482 the right thing there. 305 00:20:34,482 --> 00:20:38,655 And I think that helped him to continue to feel that he could 306 00:20:38,724 --> 00:20:40,482 get away with whatever he wanted to do. 307 00:20:40,482 --> 00:20:43,034 Nobody was gonna do anything about it. 308 00:20:51,758 --> 00:20:53,068 [Debra] After the incident with Stella, 309 00:20:53,068 --> 00:20:56,655 we just tried to tiptoe around it. 310 00:20:56,655 --> 00:20:59,689 We didn't speak about Stella around him. 311 00:21:00,689 --> 00:21:04,896 We just let that whole part of our life be. 312 00:21:07,103 --> 00:21:11,586 I think that it was a little bit of fear and denial 313 00:21:12,379 --> 00:21:16,862 because of the fact that I had already lost one brother, 314 00:21:16,862 --> 00:21:20,000 and I didn't want to lose this one. 315 00:21:20,068 --> 00:21:25,551 I was in such a way that I tried to overlook a lot of 316 00:21:25,551 --> 00:21:28,965 things because of the fact he was all I had left. 317 00:21:28,965 --> 00:21:33,000 But I think deep down, I was afraid of him. 318 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,655 After he raped Stella, everything ramped up, 319 00:21:36,655 --> 00:21:38,275 and he just got worse. 320 00:21:53,793 --> 00:21:57,172 One night, my family and I had gone to the drive-in. 321 00:21:57,172 --> 00:22:01,896 We came back from the movies, and there was ambulances 322 00:22:01,896 --> 00:22:06,000 everywhere, fire trucks, police. 323 00:22:06,068 --> 00:22:07,827 I didn't know what had happened. 324 00:22:08,655 --> 00:22:14,000 Oh my gosh, I ran upstairs, and my mom told me that Jimmy 325 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,862 had went in and beat grandma, beat grandma to a bloody pulp. 326 00:22:17,862 --> 00:22:21,000 [knocking noises] 327 00:22:21,068 --> 00:22:24,241 My grandma said that he came and knocked at the door, 328 00:22:24,241 --> 00:22:26,655 and she looked out the peephole and saw it was Jimmy. 329 00:22:26,655 --> 00:22:29,034 She thought, well, wonder what he wants? 330 00:22:29,034 --> 00:22:30,827 So she opened the door. 331 00:22:32,482 --> 00:22:36,965 My grandmother said he came in and started talking to her. 332 00:22:36,965 --> 00:22:39,275 She said he looked at me, and he looked at me like 333 00:22:39,275 --> 00:22:41,965 I wasn't even there. -[door slams shut] 334 00:22:41,965 --> 00:22:44,931 Like he was looking right through her. 335 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,517 -Is there anyone here? -No. 336 00:22:46,586 --> 00:22:50,655 [Debra] And she said, "Jimmy, Jimmy, are you OK?" 337 00:22:50,655 --> 00:22:54,068 "Jimmy," she said that a couple of times to him, 338 00:22:54,068 --> 00:22:57,068 and he didn't respond. -Is everything OK? 339 00:22:57,862 --> 00:23:01,310 And that's when she said he just came over and started 340 00:23:01,379 --> 00:23:03,965 strangling her -- he didn't say anything to her. 341 00:23:03,965 --> 00:23:05,689 He didn't say a word. 342 00:23:13,241 --> 00:23:17,000 He just continued to beat her until she laid 343 00:23:17,068 --> 00:23:19,344 and pretended she was dead on the floor. 344 00:23:19,344 --> 00:23:22,586 And she said he finally left. 345 00:23:22,586 --> 00:23:26,448 And she was able to crawl to the phone and call 911. 346 00:23:26,448 --> 00:23:30,068 [distant siren wailing] 347 00:23:31,275 --> 00:23:35,000 And the scene at my grandmother's was horrific. 348 00:23:35,068 --> 00:23:38,034 The whole kitchen was covered in blood. 349 00:23:38,034 --> 00:23:42,000 I was really upset, like, shaking inside. 350 00:23:42,068 --> 00:23:46,517 It made me so upset. I didn't know what to think. 351 00:23:50,137 --> 00:23:54,000 I couldn't believe it. I could and I couldn't. 352 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,413 She was so meek and mild, my grandmother wouldn't 353 00:23:57,482 --> 00:23:58,689 hurt a fly. 354 00:23:58,689 --> 00:24:02,724 She was never anything but really good to all of us. 355 00:24:04,137 --> 00:24:06,724 The police came and picked him up, and that's when 356 00:24:06,793 --> 00:24:09,103 they photographed his whole body. 357 00:24:09,103 --> 00:24:12,517 There weren't no blood on him, and there was no marks of 358 00:24:12,586 --> 00:24:14,620 a physical kind on him. 359 00:24:16,379 --> 00:24:20,793 So, I guess at that time, you know, because she was 360 00:24:20,793 --> 00:24:24,517 so distraught, they thought she would lie about her grandson. 361 00:24:25,689 --> 00:24:27,551 He looks you in your eye. 362 00:24:27,551 --> 00:24:33,275 And he is so adamant about his innocence that you end up 363 00:24:33,275 --> 00:24:36,931 believing him because, I mean, even no matter how hard 364 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,586 you would badger him about it, he would just laugh 365 00:24:40,586 --> 00:24:42,620 and discount it as, "You are crazy. 366 00:24:42,689 --> 00:24:44,827 I would never do anything like that." 367 00:24:45,689 --> 00:24:48,310 It was some way he had about him. 368 00:24:55,793 --> 00:25:01,000 The trial for this was horrific in that they had this 369 00:25:01,068 --> 00:25:03,413 in the newspapers, the local newspapers. 370 00:25:03,482 --> 00:25:06,137 And they had my grandmother, like, up on the stand. 371 00:25:06,137 --> 00:25:08,689 One of the pictures they showed of her, 372 00:25:08,689 --> 00:25:11,068 you could tell she was old and frail. 373 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,000 Eventually, my brother was acquitted of the charges of 374 00:25:17,068 --> 00:25:20,448 beating my grandmother and attempting to murder her. 375 00:25:20,448 --> 00:25:22,896 And they said there was not enough evidence to 376 00:25:22,896 --> 00:25:26,172 prove otherwise, they had reasonable doubt. 377 00:25:26,172 --> 00:25:27,724 So he was acquitted. 378 00:25:30,586 --> 00:25:36,172 They said my grandmother was old and was probably confused. 379 00:25:36,172 --> 00:25:40,758 I was pretty shocked when it came back with an acquittal. 380 00:25:40,758 --> 00:25:42,931 And therefore, he's back out. 381 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,655 And because he didn't get in any trouble for doing that, 382 00:25:47,655 --> 00:25:52,689 we, I guess we took on the attitude when we're talking 383 00:25:52,689 --> 00:25:55,241 to Jimmy, we have to act like 384 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,344 that was a big mistake, and he really didn't do it. 385 00:25:59,344 --> 00:26:01,862 And that was part of what made me think for a moment, 386 00:26:01,862 --> 00:26:05,413 maybe he really didn't truly remember these things. 387 00:26:05,482 --> 00:26:08,586 Maybe he truly doesn't remember, and that's why 388 00:26:08,586 --> 00:26:12,241 he's so adamant that, "I didn't do it, I didn't do it." 389 00:26:13,172 --> 00:26:15,000 But that wasn't true. 390 00:26:22,172 --> 00:26:27,310 One day, I received a call from him, from Jimmy, while he was 391 00:26:27,379 --> 00:26:28,793 in prison. 392 00:26:29,896 --> 00:26:34,000 And he was all excited when he called. 393 00:26:34,068 --> 00:26:35,517 And I said, "Why are you so excited? 394 00:26:35,586 --> 00:26:37,896 "What's going on? Did you get good news? 395 00:26:37,896 --> 00:26:39,620 Are you gonna get out?" 396 00:26:39,689 --> 00:26:44,689 He said, "No, I met someone in here, a really cool person." 397 00:26:44,689 --> 00:26:48,827 I said, "Who is that?" He said, "Ted Bundy." 398 00:26:51,275 --> 00:26:55,103 At this point, I just wanted to cry. 399 00:26:55,103 --> 00:26:58,413 And I told him, "Ted Bundy, 400 00:26:58,482 --> 00:27:02,000 why are you even talking to him?" 401 00:27:02,689 --> 00:27:04,724 Oh, my gosh. 402 00:27:06,482 --> 00:27:10,896 I didn't know what to say. I was speechless. 403 00:27:10,896 --> 00:27:14,275 He continued laughing about it. 404 00:27:14,275 --> 00:27:18,896 He had met this horrible killer. 405 00:27:18,896 --> 00:27:22,655 And in my mind, I thought, what kind of stuff is 406 00:27:22,655 --> 00:27:24,724 he learning from him? 407 00:27:24,793 --> 00:27:29,000 He spoke to Ted Bundy at length 408 00:27:29,068 --> 00:27:32,068 about different things, 409 00:27:32,068 --> 00:27:37,965 one being that he should look at the Want Ads and look at 410 00:27:37,965 --> 00:27:42,620 the Want Ads in Oregon, which is where Ted Bundy said that 411 00:27:42,689 --> 00:27:45,931 he got a lot of his victims from. 412 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:51,310 I think he definitely aspired to be like Ted Bundy. 413 00:28:00,482 --> 00:28:05,034 I think evil people have a way to hide that evilness that 414 00:28:05,034 --> 00:28:08,206 we don't see until they're ready to let it out. 415 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,482 And then it's just awful for whoever they let it out on. 416 00:28:14,965 --> 00:28:17,103 He was evil through and through. 417 00:28:18,551 --> 00:28:21,137 So many people suffered because of him. 418 00:28:31,275 --> 00:28:34,896 One day, when I came home to visit my dad, 419 00:28:34,896 --> 00:28:37,482 there were police cars everywhere, 420 00:28:37,482 --> 00:28:39,689 all over our street. 421 00:28:40,448 --> 00:28:43,896 I didn't know what had happened, but ran in the house, 422 00:28:43,896 --> 00:28:48,689 make sure my dad was OK, asked him, what is going on? 423 00:28:48,689 --> 00:28:52,034 He said the neighbor, Alice Stock, had been 424 00:28:52,034 --> 00:28:54,000 raped and murdered. 425 00:28:56,379 --> 00:28:59,896 And my dad and I looked at each other. 426 00:28:59,896 --> 00:29:01,413 Oh, my gosh. 427 00:29:02,896 --> 00:29:05,517 Immediately, we both suspected that Jimmy 428 00:29:05,586 --> 00:29:08,000 had something to do with that, 429 00:29:10,379 --> 00:29:12,931 because of the fact because of the fact he had broke into 430 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,551 her house prior. 431 00:29:14,551 --> 00:29:20,068 It seemed really coincidental that he would get out of prison 432 00:29:20,068 --> 00:29:23,827 and within just a matter of a few weeks, 433 00:29:23,896 --> 00:29:26,310 our neighbor was killed. 434 00:29:33,482 --> 00:29:37,655 Looking back, I think he went back to Alice Stock's house to 435 00:29:37,655 --> 00:29:40,965 finish what he had attempted to do the first time 436 00:29:40,965 --> 00:29:43,241 he broke into her house. 437 00:29:56,482 --> 00:30:01,310 [phone ringing] 438 00:30:01,379 --> 00:30:03,793 One day, I got a call from Jimmy. 439 00:30:03,793 --> 00:30:08,896 He told me, "I've decided that I'm gonna change my name." 440 00:30:08,896 --> 00:30:12,827 "Well, I can't get a fair shake with Adolf James Rode 441 00:30:12,896 --> 00:30:14,275 "everywhere I go. 442 00:30:14,275 --> 00:30:17,034 "People are gonna think that I'm guilty of something, 443 00:30:17,034 --> 00:30:20,862 and I didn't even do anything. So I'm gonna change my name." 444 00:30:20,862 --> 00:30:23,034 "What are you gonna change your name to?" 445 00:30:23,034 --> 00:30:26,103 He told me Cesar Francesco Barone. 446 00:30:26,103 --> 00:30:28,896 I was like, "What? What? 447 00:30:28,896 --> 00:30:31,103 Why would you pick that name?" 448 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,827 "I just thought it sounded cool," he said. 449 00:30:36,655 --> 00:30:42,241 So he changed his name, but I figured maybe it's better, 450 00:30:42,241 --> 00:30:45,413 because he won't be underneath the cloud of suspicion 451 00:30:45,482 --> 00:30:46,482 everywhere he goes. 452 00:30:46,482 --> 00:30:49,137 I knew he did things to my grandmother. 453 00:30:49,137 --> 00:30:53,000 I knew he did these things to my stepmother, 454 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,034 but I was really hopeful that he was becoming 455 00:30:57,034 --> 00:30:58,413 a different person. 456 00:31:09,586 --> 00:31:12,931 I was proud of the fact that he joined the Army. 457 00:31:14,275 --> 00:31:16,827 When Jimmy first joined, he joined as 458 00:31:16,896 --> 00:31:22,275 Cesar Francesco Barone, not Adolf James Rode. 459 00:31:22,275 --> 00:31:27,000 So they never knew of his name and his other records. 460 00:31:28,379 --> 00:31:31,103 Now I know the reason that he did it was to -- 461 00:31:31,103 --> 00:31:33,931 so he could do more bad stuff 462 00:31:34,689 --> 00:31:36,241 and not get detected. 463 00:31:38,379 --> 00:31:39,758 My brother had a double life. 464 00:31:39,758 --> 00:31:44,620 He had another side that did horrible things. 465 00:31:45,896 --> 00:31:48,965 He was not telling me what he was doing 466 00:31:48,965 --> 00:31:51,000 with his spare time in Oregon. 467 00:31:55,896 --> 00:31:59,655 But comes a point in time where you have to be open to 468 00:31:59,655 --> 00:32:03,068 the facts that are staring you in your face. 469 00:32:04,689 --> 00:32:06,827 One night, I was at the house, 470 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,827 getting ready to watch "America's Most Wanted." 471 00:32:11,896 --> 00:32:15,137 And "America's Most Wanted" comes on. 472 00:32:15,137 --> 00:32:20,724 And, in front of my very eyes, is my brother on the screen. 473 00:32:23,482 --> 00:32:26,655 My heart almost stopped. 474 00:32:26,655 --> 00:32:29,620 They were searching for the murder weapon of 475 00:32:29,689 --> 00:32:33,310 a particular murder that he had done with a firearm. 476 00:32:34,586 --> 00:32:37,482 Never in my wildest dreams would I have ever thought 477 00:32:37,482 --> 00:32:40,413 here, my brother's gonna be on the screen. 478 00:32:41,793 --> 00:32:46,000 It was horrible. I was so ashamed. 479 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:52,034 And then I immediately was angry because of all the stuff 480 00:32:52,034 --> 00:32:57,482 I was beginning to see was all lies, all lies. 481 00:33:08,793 --> 00:33:12,034 [Debra] They were searching for my brother for 482 00:33:12,034 --> 00:33:16,448 multiple murders that he was a suspect in. 483 00:33:16,448 --> 00:33:22,275 Between 1991 and 1993, Cesar killed at least 484 00:33:22,275 --> 00:33:26,000 four women in Portland, Oregon. 485 00:33:28,137 --> 00:33:32,344 He also sexually assaulted at least three others, 486 00:33:36,413 --> 00:33:41,000 and most of his victims were elderly women 487 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,000 who he raped and then strangled. 488 00:33:48,862 --> 00:33:52,206 After he was captured, Jimmy called me from jail 489 00:33:52,206 --> 00:33:56,827 one afternoon and told me that he had been arrested. 490 00:34:00,413 --> 00:34:04,586 He laughed and said, "I didn't do anything. 491 00:34:04,586 --> 00:34:09,068 This is -- somebody's framing me for this stuff." 492 00:34:09,068 --> 00:34:12,688 I didn't really believe him, but that's what he told me. 493 00:34:13,482 --> 00:34:16,447 I just didn't have the strength to deal with it. 494 00:34:16,447 --> 00:34:20,793 I didn't have the strength to listen to a bunch more lies. 495 00:34:20,793 --> 00:34:24,068 I never told him that I didn't believe him. 496 00:34:24,068 --> 00:34:27,793 I just was neutral when I spoke to him. 497 00:34:27,793 --> 00:34:31,379 I didn't know enough about the murders at that time. 498 00:34:31,379 --> 00:34:34,034 I didn't really know a lot about the murders 499 00:34:34,034 --> 00:34:37,344 and the rapes to... 500 00:34:37,344 --> 00:34:39,447 confront him with it. 501 00:34:40,516 --> 00:34:44,827 I acted like my normal big sister, because I loved him, 502 00:34:44,896 --> 00:34:47,482 and I felt guilty for loving him. 503 00:34:47,482 --> 00:34:52,206 I felt guilty that somehow I should have cut him at 504 00:34:52,206 --> 00:34:55,413 the knees and just been happy to do it, 505 00:34:55,413 --> 00:34:59,551 but I wasn't, and I was -- I really grappled with that. 506 00:34:59,551 --> 00:35:01,827 I wanted to do the right thing. 507 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,586 I think that the law enforcement was interested in 508 00:35:13,586 --> 00:35:18,241 speaking to me because it was apparent that I didn't know 509 00:35:18,241 --> 00:35:19,931 a lot of these details. 510 00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:24,379 They came, and for about an hour, they went through 511 00:35:24,379 --> 00:35:27,482 all of the horrific things that he was accused of 512 00:35:27,482 --> 00:35:29,517 as a courtesy to me, 513 00:35:29,517 --> 00:35:32,000 because I was totally in the dark. 514 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,000 We know that all of this information is coming as a bit 515 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,586 of a surprise. 516 00:35:37,586 --> 00:35:42,448 [Debra] They came with so much evidence. 517 00:35:42,448 --> 00:35:47,413 I was taken aback that all of this stuff had been occurring. 518 00:35:47,413 --> 00:35:51,310 And these were factual 519 00:35:51,310 --> 00:35:54,689 police reports, witness statements. 520 00:35:55,448 --> 00:35:59,655 I asked, "Do you think this is possible that he doesn't know 521 00:35:59,655 --> 00:36:02,344 "what he's doing, that he somehow, 522 00:36:02,344 --> 00:36:06,000 "his mind, it separates itself, and he's not aware 523 00:36:06,068 --> 00:36:07,172 of his actions?" 524 00:36:07,172 --> 00:36:10,517 And they told me, "There's absolutely 525 00:36:10,517 --> 00:36:14,103 no truth to that at all," and they can show me. 526 00:36:14,103 --> 00:36:16,689 And they proceeded to do just that. 527 00:36:16,689 --> 00:36:18,586 No, unfortunately. 528 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,034 I thought that he had gone to Oregon to start a new life 529 00:36:26,034 --> 00:36:29,103 with his new wife and son. 530 00:36:29,103 --> 00:36:36,068 But apparently, he was in Oregon continuing to murder and rape 531 00:36:36,068 --> 00:36:38,758 women, all elderly women. 532 00:36:39,551 --> 00:36:43,931 I don't know why he targeted the elderly people. 533 00:36:44,793 --> 00:36:48,862 First, I thought he did that because they were not able to 534 00:36:48,862 --> 00:36:53,827 fight back maybe, easy targets for him. 535 00:36:53,896 --> 00:36:57,517 But later on, I started realizing it was 536 00:36:57,517 --> 00:36:59,275 more than that. 537 00:37:00,655 --> 00:37:06,000 I was so sure in my mind it was something to do with our mom. 538 00:37:07,689 --> 00:37:11,689 I believe he had issues with my mom 539 00:37:11,689 --> 00:37:15,000 and my mom leaving our life 540 00:37:15,068 --> 00:37:18,068 at such a young age for him. 541 00:37:18,068 --> 00:37:20,000 It's horrific to go back 542 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,034 and think of all the things he did. 543 00:37:22,034 --> 00:37:24,344 It was very hard for me to think 544 00:37:24,344 --> 00:37:26,310 that he could be so cruel. 545 00:37:28,896 --> 00:37:31,137 And I changed that day, 546 00:37:32,103 --> 00:37:36,448 stopped thinking and trying to give him a benefit of a doubt, 547 00:37:36,448 --> 00:37:37,965 because there wasn't any. 548 00:37:37,965 --> 00:37:43,206 And, at that point, I knew in my mind and in my heart that 549 00:37:43,206 --> 00:37:44,517 he was guilty. 550 00:37:45,655 --> 00:37:48,034 I had no choice but to acknowledge it 551 00:37:48,034 --> 00:37:51,413 and realize this is all true. 552 00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:58,000 And my first thought is, "I'm going to lose my last brother." 553 00:38:00,103 --> 00:38:06,172 I needed that at that time to help me to bridge that between 554 00:38:06,172 --> 00:38:10,517 how I thought my brother was and how he actually was. 555 00:38:10,517 --> 00:38:15,689 And all I had left in front of me was someone I did not know. 556 00:38:15,689 --> 00:38:16,931 It was horrible. 557 00:38:17,689 --> 00:38:19,103 It was horrible. 558 00:38:20,965 --> 00:38:24,137 I just wish I would've known sooner. 559 00:38:24,137 --> 00:38:25,827 I wish I would've 560 00:38:27,034 --> 00:38:28,310 known sooner. 561 00:38:44,172 --> 00:38:45,931 This is Martha Bryant. 562 00:38:49,310 --> 00:38:51,172 This is Margaret Schmidt. 563 00:38:51,896 --> 00:38:53,793 This is Chantee. 564 00:38:56,413 --> 00:39:00,551 This is... Betty Williams. 565 00:39:00,551 --> 00:39:03,931 And this is Alice Stock, our old neighbor. 566 00:39:10,896 --> 00:39:13,827 I'm so sorry he did this to you guys. 567 00:39:16,034 --> 00:39:19,413 For Alice, for all intents and purposes, he got away 568 00:39:19,413 --> 00:39:23,206 with her murder -- that was the beginning of it, 569 00:39:23,206 --> 00:39:28,137 right there at Alice Stock's house is where 570 00:39:28,137 --> 00:39:29,965 his killing began, 571 00:39:29,965 --> 00:39:33,103 when he was becoming this terrible monster 572 00:39:33,103 --> 00:39:34,448 that he became. 573 00:39:34,448 --> 00:39:39,620 The only thing they all have in common is they crossed 574 00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:41,310 the monster's path. 575 00:39:43,448 --> 00:39:47,689 As the sister of the man who took these women's lives, 576 00:39:47,689 --> 00:39:50,655 I will never forget their names. 577 00:39:50,655 --> 00:39:52,931 I will never forget their faces. 578 00:39:55,413 --> 00:40:00,896 I'm very sorry for what my brother caused in your lives. 579 00:40:02,172 --> 00:40:03,793 None of you deserved that. 580 00:40:05,275 --> 00:40:08,862 And it's very well possible and probable, in my mind, 581 00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:13,379 that he did do that to others that were just never... 582 00:40:14,793 --> 00:40:16,931 caught, never found out about. 583 00:40:37,689 --> 00:40:41,275 Nobody really knew that my brother was a serial killer. 584 00:40:42,172 --> 00:40:44,172 And I didn't really tell anybody. 585 00:40:45,793 --> 00:40:50,000 But it feels really good to say out loud, he's a monster, 586 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,344 and he's a murderer. 587 00:40:52,241 --> 00:40:56,000 It feels really good to acknowledge that 588 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,448 and put that out to the world. 589 00:40:58,448 --> 00:41:01,827 My brother was a bad man, a bad man. 590 00:41:04,103 --> 00:41:06,482 He was someone I didn't even know, 591 00:41:06,482 --> 00:41:10,310 and I'm not gonna grieve for him anymore. 592 00:41:11,137 --> 00:41:18,413 I am, for once, in my whole 68 years of existence, I can be 593 00:41:19,103 --> 00:41:22,689 at peace about my brother, knowing that I'm not 594 00:41:22,689 --> 00:41:26,379 a bad person because he is a [bleep]. 595 00:41:26,379 --> 00:41:30,103 I'm not a bad person because he's a murderer, not me. 596 00:41:31,586 --> 00:41:33,000 He's the murderer.