[Jacob] I find that if you can...
not change your clothes too often,
and if you don't clutter your life with, you know, children...
a broad swathe of people of all ages,
you know, will still gravitate to your existential plight.
If you keep it selfish and keep it aggravated...
-[woman] Mm-hmm. -that's timeless.
[all laugh]
Words to live by.
Anything you wanna add before we let you go?
Yes, I would like everybody to buy the book... for a second time, even.
Um...
And... No.
Thank you for coming, seriously.
The 20th anniversary edition of Conjugality is out next month,
but you can pre-order it right here at Quimby's.
Support your local bookstore.
Jacob, thank you so much.
Thank you, Alison. It's great talking to you.
Thank you.
♪ You keep on running ♪
♪ Keep running ♪
♪ You keep on running away ♪
-"Mention your Twitter!" -That's my job--
To hold up pads at an event that your client's doing?
That's the only way I can reach you, apparently.
I'm just trying to, you know, close strong with a nice--
You won't even acknowledge social media. It's insane.
Why is it insane? I don't wanna do it.
-You really need-- -What's up?
I don't know if you remember me... Mike from the Obscurity reading last year.
-Dude. How are you? Good to see you. -Good. How are you?
I'm good. That was an exciting night, right?
[Mike] Yeah. It was crazy.
-[Jacob] Good to see you. -You too.
-We'd love to have you back. -I'd love to.
-Thanks a lot. -Great.
-See, that's a tangible thing-- -Does he follow you on Twitter?
-It doesn't matter. -I doubt it.
-Did you-- -Do you have any idea--
That guy works at another bookstore
that just offered us a thing to do in the real world,
and you're like, "Get on Twitter. Here's my pad!"
I don't think that you're literate in the language that I'm literate in.
I don't even understand you.
-I know, and that's what-- -Hey. I'm sorry.
-I gotta go, but I just really wanted to-- -Yeah, me too. Let's go.
-I'll see you later, Lauren. -Yeah.
-[Jacob] Good to see you. Just walk. -Nice to meet you.
-Jesus. -Unbelievable.
The online presence is absolutely necessary these days
to sell anything.
It's got nothing to do with me.
I hope she's not tweeting as me. That would make me upset.
-She's not tweeting as you. -I don't like the whole thing.
She's tweeting about the project. All right?
I didn't call to talk about social media or Lauren.
-I called to talk about Karen. -Karen?
I know we spoke about this. We didn't make a decision on it,
but I really think that Karen should be contacted--
I haven't even talked to her in eight years.
I haven't talked to her in eight years.
If you haven't talked to her in eight years,
she may have softened somewhat.
That's why she calls me all the time.
[sighs]
Either way, it's a love story about the two of you,
and it's missing half of the picture.
I know, that was always her complaint in the second book.
"How come I'm not in this?" And, "Who's that other lady?"
Yeah, that happened. Did you read the second book, Amanda?
Yes, I read it.
But we're focusing on the first one, so we don't need much from her.
Just even an online little article, quote, something.
I'll give it to you right now.
Quote, "Jacob Malco is an asshole who hurt me
and dragged me through it publicly. Karen, his ex-wife."
That works. I could live with that.
-No. No. -All right?
This is where I was in January--
-There's no coyotes in Chicago. -There are!
-I told you, a coyote came-- -You saw a dog.
There's coyotes and everybody knows it.
Look, they want me to reach out to Karen. I mean, that is-- I can't do that.
-They want me to have her do a blurb. -Why would they want you to do that?
-Or to do an article... -Uh-huh.
I can't do that to her. I put her through enough, number one.
Number two, there's no way she would do it.
No, but I understand why they want you to do that.
-Right. -But I get it, that it's awkward.
But here's the thing. I saw her. I did see her.
-What? -I saw her.
[stammers] I was coming out of, um, Dr. Cath's office.
-You saw Karen? -Yeah! After my therapy.
-I came out, and she was at that café-- -How many times did you see Karen?
What's that café... Wait, do you have any coins?
-'Cause I wanna-- -For what?
I'm gonna throw a coin in the fountain and make a wish.
-Are you five? -It's a pretty day.
I know, but that's not a wishing well.
-All right-- -Just...
I talk to her, but not a lot. She knows I'm your friend, so...
But my point is I saw her and I have her number if you wanted to call her.
What's she doing? How did she look?
Does she have kids? Is she married?
-Where'd you see her? -I'm sorry. You're upset.
-I'm not upset. Where'd you see her? -You're upset.
I'm not upset. Why would you keep saying that?
'Cause you're upset.
-Where'd you see her? [groans] -Give me a coin. Do you have coins?
I have a nickel.
[gasps]
-Go throw it in. -Wait.
-No, you gotta-- -Shh!
Make a wish. Just make a wish. Ready?
[coin splashes]
It didn't come true. You threw it.
Yes, I'm excited about the re-release of the book.
I'm sorry, I've answered that question a lot today, but--
Uh, okay, Dan, I think we have time for one more question.
[Dan] I think that's all I've got.
But I'll just say that I'm a huge fan, and it's a real pleasure to talk to you.
-Thanks. Appreciate that. -Great.
Okay, thank you. I'll talk to you soon.
- Thanks a lot. -Bye.
[Jacob sighs]
Okay.
Um... It looks like we have ten minutes until your next interview.
-Yeah. -I don't know if you wanna...
-Can I have a Diet Coke? -Yes.
-And I'm gonna take a little snooze. -On that note...
-A little nappy. -I have Karen's number.
-I'm thinking-- -What did you just say?
-Okay. I've--
How did you just present that? "I have Karen's number."
-Here's what I'm thinking. -Like in that cute little way, and...
that's not gonna sound like you're coercing me.
I'm trying to integrate it naturally into the flow of the conversation.
"I have her number."
What you're saying is,"I'm gonna call Karen unless you do something."
Are you the same person I talked to a few days ago,
or do you have a twin that's equally as irritating?
-I'm an only child. -No Karen. It's not happening.
Okay. I'm just trying to help. I guess you don't wanna generate--
Shut up. I can't go through another round of whatever it is you do.
-Bad idea. -Okay.
-Red flag for me. -Okay.
You're seeing a red flag.
Do you know where Everybody's Coffee is?
-Yes. -Meet me there tomorrow.
I'll text you or e-mail you the time.
This is so stupid, but I believe that it will prove to you
why this is not a good situation, and we'll put an end to it.
-Okay. -I don't think this is a good idea at all.
But we're gonna do it.
We're gonna do it. You know why? 'Cause you won.
You've annoyed me to the point where I'm gonna do something stupid.
You're gonna thank me.
-I'm excited. Thank you. -Can I have a Diet Coke?
-You have earned it.
-This is progress. -All right.
-This feels really good. -Stop, stop, stop.
-[man] Hey. -Hi.
-How's it going? -Can I get a drip?
But do you mind putting it in a to-go cup today?
-Yeah, sure. -Thanks.
[Jacob] Karen.
-Oh, my God. -I know.
-Hi. -Hi.
-It's good to see you. -Yeah.
-Wow. This is wild. -That is just...
[exhales] I know. I was just gonna grab some coffee.
Are you taking off? I didn't even know this place was here.
-Oh. -What's happening? How are you doing?
Uh... I'm... I'm...
[stammers] I'm fine.
-You look great. -Yeah. Thanks.
It's so wild, 'cause I've been... I've been in it.
I've been in us lately, 'cause they're coming out with this...
This anniversary edition of Conjugality. Of our book.
And I've just been-- I don't know.
There's supplementary material, some new stuff,
the cover's a little different.
-And there you are. -What do you mean, there's new stuff?
-Just drawings. -Huh?
-No. -What drawings?
Of you, me... You know, the regular stuff
-from that time. -New ones?
No, they're not new. From then. From then.
-I have, uh... folders of stuff. -Wait, ones that weren't in the book?
Right. But from that time.
But they're not-- Why are you upset already?
-I mean, it was 20 years ago. -I'm not upset.
Oh, it's shocking? It's exciting, though.
No, it's just, um...
All right, well--
Well, listen, before you go, I know this is crazy, but while you're here,
there's no way that you would maybe write a blurb or do an interview for the book?
Are you serious right now?
[stammers] Yeah, I'm pretty serious.
-The fuck is happening? -It's crazy.
-This is crazy. -I'm sorry.
-What is going on? -Nothing. I just--
Even a photograph would be so meaningful to fans.
Why are you talking? Why are you--
-Oh, my God! -[Lauren] Or a comment,
-if you're more comfortable with that. -This is so--
What is your fucking prob--
No, no, no. Karen, listen to me. No, no, no. It's not what you think.
Oh, my God. Okay.
[Jacob] This is exactly what I thought would happen.
[Karen] You know what? Fuck off! Go away. Get lost.
This is exactly what I would think would happen.
-Really? -[camera shutter clicking]
You're gonna stalk me in a coffee shop?
-No, I just-- -You're gonna ask me to participate?
-Are you high? -[Jacob] They wanted you to do something.
I said you wouldn't do it, and I just did it anyways.
-It was stupid, but it's nice to see you. -You know what? You are a bad man.
-I'm bad? I mean, I'm flawed. -You are. You're a bad--
You know, you're a bad, bad man.
[Jacob] All right. All right! Can we do a selfie?
That was really exciting.
Wait, I could... 'Cause I'd be nice to you?
Now we're becoming whole.
Is this your inner self being nice to you?
-Now we're whole. See? -Yeah. We should do this more often.
I'm just not sexually attracted to you. [laughs]
That's the thing. I'm sorry.
You're sexually attractive and everything, but we don't have that...
-We don't have that... -I think I owe, uh...
I think I owe Karen some sort of...
Like, I think that I need closure.
Do you ever, though, think that maybe you could've just hung in and...
Yeah, but do you want--
Why do people think that marriage has to be fun all the time?
Or great all the time? Maybe it was just in a rough patch.
-I was dying inside. -Maybe you just felt like you were dying.
How long do rough patches go on for?
Honest to God, when I first sat down here, you felt like you were dying.
I can't remember what it was that was bothering you now,
and I'm sure you can't either. That's what I'm talking about.
-Huh. -You know, like,
perhaps you had a really great thing,
-and you got impatient, and... -Yeah, we did...
And all of a sudden, there's prenatal vitamins in the--
-I don't wanna-- -She was trying to have a baby.
But I-- mnh-mnh.
-You told her you wanted to have a baby. -No, I did not.
Oh, my God! That's such a lie that you tell yourself.
You told her that you agreed to have a child.
[stammers] No, I said, I wouldn't-- I said maybe.
-Oh, my God. -But I think the--
But you knew that she wanted to and you knew--
I thought I could talk her out of it.
You guys were having unprotected sex.
Yeah, but I always do.
It doesn't feel good with the thing on.
Are you 17?
No. But it doesn't feel good with it.
[groans]
["Temptation is Hard to Fight" playing]
♪ We do so many things in our lives ♪
♪ Some call for sacrifice ♪
♪ Some are wrong and some are right ♪
♪ Some things we have to fight ♪
-♪ That's why ♪ -♪ Temptation is so hard to fight ♪
-♪ Oh, baby, I know ♪ -♪ Temptation is so hard... ♪
[line ringing]
-[clicks] -Hey, it's Karen Treska.
You can leave a message after the beep. Thanks.
-[Jacob sniffles] -[beeps]
I did not mean to interrupt your life, to surprise you like that.
I'm sorry. I can explain it.
I can explain it, but I don't wanna do that right now.
I just wanna apologize. I'm sorry.
[sighs] I don't know. I'm not--
I've been working on this, you know...
this reissue of the book
and I've been going through all this stuff.
There's so much stuff. Karen, there's so much stuff.
Smashing Pumpkins, the Cubs.
I don't even like baseball. We went to those games.
It was nice to see you. It was just nice to see you. Even...
Like, right when I walked in, before it turned to garbage.
There was a moment. There was a moment right then...
when we saw each other, and I saw you.
Can we just have dinner...
like two middle-aged people that used to be married and loved each other.
Let me know.
Okay, bye.
[cell phone chimes]
[grunts]
[customers laughing and chattering]
-Hey. -Hi.
-How are you? -Good. How are you?
Okay.
I think I need to go over some stuff with you as a grownup here.
[Karen] Mm-hmm.
And take responsibility for some stuff and try to make you feel sorry for me.
[both laugh]
-Okay. -Okay?
-Are you in? -Right. Sure.
[chuckles]
[Jacob] You know what I feel bad about?
You know, all that shit was goin' on, and I was getting successful
and I was going to LA
and that thing started with-- You know...
-My mom? -No, with Melanie.
-The thing started-- -Oh. Sorry, your affair.
Right, that's what I was gonna say,
is that you were going through that thing with your mom.
-And I just-- -You can say it.
-She was dying. -Mm-hmm.
And I just couldn't make time to be there for that?
No.
[stammers] I mean, l-- Yeah, I'm sorry.
Okay.
Thank you for saying that.
There's gotta be some benefit to getting old and surviving that shit.
And I'm not expecting you to let me off the hook, but I--
I wasn't able to feel it then. I don't know why.
-Fucked up, but I feel it now. -Yeah.
I mean, I think in some weird way, in my caretaker-y way,
where I sort of felt like I was put on the Earth
to make sure you never had to feel anything, um, too uncomfortable or...
unbearable, that I...
[clears throat] probably...
didn't let you feel like there were things you could do.
Not that you would've necessarily known what to do.
-Right. -But...
But I didn't need to go...
-Have an affair? -Right.
-And then write a book about it? -Yeah.
And then... [chuckles]
Do a whole bunch of Q and A's.
Right.
-And a lot of interviews. -[groans]
-And then marry... -Right, right.
-the person... -Yeah, yeah.
And...
-And just justify it. -[chuckles]
I was completely insensitive. It was fucked up.
And I didn't know that that's the way things would pan out.
But you didn't know things would pan out that way,
and that's the point, is that I didn't either.
So when you told me you were having feelings for somebody else,
I mean, I thought that...
It doesn't matter.
-What? -No, I just thought that we--
I thought it was something that you were saying you wanted to work through.
-Oh... -It doesn't...
When I say it doesn't matter, it really...
[laughs] Now it sounds like--
-No, it's fair. -It really doesn't matter.
-But that's what-- -I had to commit to it.
I didn't think there was any way--
Even if we were to work it out, how would you ever forgive that?
And I didn't wanna live my whole life to be this apology
and just, like, end up with kids, this beaten dude who fucked up,
and his whole life is now built around that fuck up.
How would you not have punished me for--
So you wanted to end it because you didn't like the narrative
of being somebody who cheated on his wife?
I obviously liked that narrative. I wrote a book about it.
But I didn't wanna be the guy who was still married
and was just this, like, beaten man
who has to spend his whole life living in this mistake.
I didn't feel like we could have overcome it.
How's it going?
[both laugh]
All right. Mistakes averted. [laughs]
I agree with you, and I think you're right in thinking that,
that I did not take into consideration what you might've been going through
or even your feelings or anything else.
No, but it was to such a degree that it's almost feels dumb
to apologize for it at this point.
I don't know if it's dumb. It took me this long to recognize it.
Yeah, but it took me this long to forget about it.
I know.
[snickers]
The other thing was just, like, what was I doing? What was I doing?
Was it real? Was it not real? I don't know.
I don't know if I'm even capable of the real thing.
Do you think I am? Do you think I was? Was I-- Did it feel like-- 'Cause we--
And I'm not even sure how much I processed.
I think I was just too busy thinking about what'd make a good comic.
Oh, my God. I can't-- [groans] This is so awful.
-Really? -Yeah.
-I thought it was going well. -It was,
and then I just started all of a sudden to feel like I was just 20 years ago...
-and I'm 25 years old... -Yeah.
and I'm with this guy that is eight years my senior
and is supposed to, like, you know...
I just remember spending so much time trying to understand you,
and I think it was like a full-time job just trying to understand you
and understand how you tick enough to take care of you
when no part of you was interested in taking care of me.
And now here we are. I'm sitting across from you at a table,
and you're asking me to take care of you again.
[stammers] And I just-- I'm not-- Like I said, I--
-I get to be the mess now. -Okay.
You know, I get to be...
I get to be unhinged if I fucking feel like it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
But you call me to this table and you're asking me to...
[stuttering]
I'm just asking you to... I'm looking for redemption.
I'm looking for forgiveness. If you don't got it, you don't have to.
-I don't know if I have it. -Okay.
I didn't know I was supposed to bring it.
You have to warn somebody about this kind of stuff.
All right, well, we've got dessert.
[laughs]
Oh, my God. This place...
-Right? -Yeah.
-Right? You're time-traveling, remember? -Yeah.
-Right? -The smell brings it back.
When was the last time that you were here? With me?
-Yeah. Obviously, that's when. -That's insane. I never come here anymore.
-How's it going, Jeff? -Good, how are you doing?
What are you having?
Um...
[Jacob] I've been married a couple times myself.
-You have? -[Jacob] Yeah, I have.
Did you learn so much from those--
I did, 'cause I really loved my first wife, and I was just too--
-Oh, you did? -I did.
I bet you treated her great. Huh? I bet no regrets there.
-I think I did. -Yeah, 'cause you loved her so much.
-I did, I loved her so much. -Yeah.
And then, I got some-- I got crazy. I got--
-Oh, you got crazy? -I got crazy.
That's what happened?
Yeah, you know, I found some success, and I thought she was bringing me down
-and then some other stuff happened... -Oh. Yeah. I mean...
I met someone else and, you know--
-Oh, God. Really? -Yeah.
-And you just threw it all away? -I did.
-I threw it all away. -All right. Well...
I'm sure the second marriage went great, though, huh?
It didn't. It felt good for a while, and then it just, uh, kinda got very ugly
-and then, you know, now I'm old. -Mmm.
Yeah.
What happened with, uh, your guy? He--
Oh, I don't know. He just-- you know...
Long story short. He left me for another woman,
-Ugh! -which would have been fine, I guess.
Then he wrote a book about it.
That book went very public, and a lot of people read it.
-Really? He's a writer? -Yeah.
So that didn't feel great.
But it must be very exciting to be with an artist of any kind.
-Yeah, it was very exciting. -Yeah.
In fact, I have many happy, happy associations
-with that time. Yeah. -That's sweet. Right?
-So, maybe it just wasn't meant to be. -Yeah... You know...
It really wasn't.
[both chuckle]
Oh, God.
-But, you know... -What?
-We lived, we loved, we laughed. -Uh-huh.
-And now... -Yeah.
Do you have a...
What-- so are-- Did you remarry? What happened?
Oh, no, Jacob. I would love to tell you.
-Because it is quite a tale. -Yeah.
-But I'm afraid... -What?
-I'm just not gonna tell you about myself. -What?
-Yeah? -Yeah.
-Not ever? -Not ever.
Come on. Did you get married again? Did you meet somebody else?
I did not get married again.
-Oh, kiss me. Come on. -No, too soon, Jacob!
-Too soon. Bad game. -God damn.
What do you wanna do?
Do you wanna kiss a little bit?
Oh. [titters]
-I just had a crazy déjà vu. -[sighs] Wow.
-Did you just have crazy déjà vu? [laughs] -I just felt it in my whole body.
[guitar playing]
I'm so sad that you lost that battle. It should have been the cover.
-Yeah, I don't know what-- -Juxtaposition is...
Yeah, it's...
Better. But, yeah, the other cover is good.
[sighs]
-I gotta go to the bathroom. -[both chuckle]
[sighs]
[door opens and closes]
-[scoffs] -[cell phone vibrating]
The fuck?
[toilet flushing]
[swishing]
-[door opens] -[Jacob] All right.
Sorry...
it took me so long.
Karen?
I just can't fucking believe it! All you did was hurt a person.
That's all you did, was hurt a person that was already hurt.
Can we get Terry, please?
You're a morally bankrupt fucking monster.
-Okay. -Publicist.
What do you mean, "Okay," funny face?
-I didn't make a funny face. -Jesus. Fuck!
Why did you do that? Why would you fucking do that?
I told you not to do that. All you did was hurt somebody.
-Terry's here. -Okay, well... Terry, hi!
-[Terry] Jacob? Jacob, can you see-- -What?
It's Terry. Jacob, how are you doing?
You don't have to say your name when you're on the fucking TV.
Well, I can't see you, Jacob. [stammers] Can you sit down or something?
-Terry, what the fuck-- What did you do? -We see you.
-What's the problem? -These fucking animals,
fucking monster and her henchman doofus here,
they took those pictures of me and Karen arguing and put 'em out in the world.
She took 'em behind my back when I was just standing there.
-I went there to make a point. -My understanding was you were aware
that the picture was gonna be posted.
Who told you that? Lying sack of shit here?
On some level, there was knowledge that something was being done.
-Lauren is a very truthful person, Jacob. -Wait, what?
You can trust what Lauren tells you.
Are you out of your mind?
She's a publicist! There's no truth there! It's like a void!
-A moral void. -Okay... I mean...
[Terry] She's only trying to do what's best for the project, Jacob.
I think you might like to know
that pre-sales have gone up probably 40, 50 times
- [Lauren] Mmm! -since that picture was posted.
-All right, so, I guess-- -[Amanda] They're in the top 10%!
What?
They're in the top 10% of sales right now.
[Jacob] Oh, okay, you guys are a great team.
And the New York Review of Books is talking about doing an article.
-All right. -And the fans are loving it.
-They are eating it all up. -Of course.
Lauren, did you tell him about Jimmy yet?
-Oh! Oh... -Jimmy. Who's Jimmy?
"Who's Jimmy?" I don't know. Jimmy Fallon.
-What about Jimmy Fallon? -Yeah.
-The Tonight Show? -[Jacob] Uh-huh.
Would you like to be a guest, do the couch with Jimmy?
-[stammers] -Yeah, yeah, got it.
-Oh, yeah? -I got you on. Yeah.
-All right, well, that's-- -[Terry] On the couch.
On the couch, honey, the couch.
That shirt really brings out your eyes.
Okay! Okay. Can I just say one thing?
I just wanna point out that this doesn't make it right.
You all hurt someone's feelings. You're craven. You're all fucking craven.
You too, Terry!
And you too, Himmler. All right?
All right. That said, did anyone talk to Colbert?
Did anyone reach out to Colbert? Anybody?
-♪ You don't know what it's like ♪ -♪ It's like ♪
♪ To move on ♪
♪ Ooh, she started dancing To that fine, fine music ♪
♪ It's true love ♪
-♪ You don't know what it's like ♪ -♪ It's like ♪
♪ To move on ♪
-♪ From a name you despise ♪ -♪ Despise ♪
♪ It's true love ♪
-♪ You don't know what it's like ♪ -♪ It's like ♪
♪ To move on ♪