1 00:00:02,871 --> 00:00:05,657 [reporter] It's been four hours since David Koresh and his followers 2 00:00:05,787 --> 00:00:08,225 have refused to release themselves to the FBI 3 00:00:08,355 --> 00:00:11,097 following a bloody shootout with ATF. 4 00:00:11,228 --> 00:00:13,099 Now, details are scarce, but the question 5 00:00:13,230 --> 00:00:18,931 everyone seems to be asking, "Just when will they come out?" 6 00:00:19,062 --> 00:00:22,717 [news anchor] The federal agents came under heavy and sustained fire 7 00:00:22,848 --> 00:00:24,937 as they approached a ranch owned by... 8 00:00:25,068 --> 00:00:27,722 They're making us look like monsters. 9 00:00:27,896 --> 00:00:29,768 Calling us child abusers. 10 00:00:30,595 --> 00:00:33,424 Everyone's in the chapel wondering why we're not going out. 11 00:00:34,251 --> 00:00:35,774 I need you to talk to 'em. 12 00:00:35,948 --> 00:00:37,254 [news anchor] ...believed to have been collected 13 00:00:37,384 --> 00:00:39,212 by Branch Davidian cult members. 14 00:00:39,343 --> 00:00:40,953 [whirring] 15 00:00:41,997 --> 00:00:45,914 Negotiations failed, Noesner. They reneged on their deal. 16 00:00:46,698 --> 00:00:49,135 Let me handle this. I can have the building cleared by lunch. 17 00:00:49,309 --> 00:00:51,964 Look. This isn't the first time in the history of negotiations 18 00:00:52,138 --> 00:00:54,923 that someone reneged on a deal, okay? 19 00:00:55,054 --> 00:00:58,101 Our primary objective has to be getting those kids out safely. 20 00:00:58,275 --> 00:00:59,624 Clearing the building comes second. 21 00:00:59,798 --> 00:01:01,104 They're screwing with us. 22 00:01:01,234 --> 00:01:03,323 Now's the time to apply more pressure. 23 00:01:03,497 --> 00:01:06,761 No, no, no. Let's not mistake getting even for getting what we want. 24 00:01:10,809 --> 00:01:12,811 "Trickle-flow-gush." That's my next strategy. 25 00:01:12,941 --> 00:01:16,510 If I can get a few people to trickle out, more will follow as it starts to flow 26 00:01:16,684 --> 00:01:19,731 and once Koresh sees enough people leave, he won't be the last in line. 27 00:01:20,688 --> 00:01:23,909 It would undermine his authority. He'll lead the rest of them out himself, 28 00:01:24,039 --> 00:01:26,216 and the whole thing will be over. 29 00:01:27,347 --> 00:01:29,306 I just need a little time. 30 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,091 [sighs] Okay. 31 00:01:34,137 --> 00:01:35,486 But... 32 00:01:36,530 --> 00:01:40,708 a little show of force might help get their attention. 33 00:01:41,666 --> 00:01:43,146 Okay. 34 00:01:43,972 --> 00:01:45,017 [David] Over the years... 35 00:01:46,410 --> 00:01:48,586 you've looked to me to be your leader. 36 00:01:49,978 --> 00:01:52,155 To guide you on this journey. 37 00:01:53,330 --> 00:01:55,332 But I'm no leader. 38 00:01:55,462 --> 00:01:58,073 I'm a follower. Just like you. 39 00:01:59,945 --> 00:02:02,252 God has instructed me to stay here. 40 00:02:03,818 --> 00:02:06,256 And wait for His sign before I go out there. 41 00:02:08,214 --> 00:02:09,737 But I can't ask you to do the same. 42 00:02:09,868 --> 00:02:11,696 [helicopter whirring] 43 00:02:11,826 --> 00:02:15,917 And whoever wants to leave, you're free to go. 44 00:02:16,048 --> 00:02:18,703 But those of thinking of going, 45 00:02:19,791 --> 00:02:21,662 I want you to ask yourself... 46 00:02:23,098 --> 00:02:26,537 why did you sacrifice all the comforts you had 47 00:02:26,711 --> 00:02:28,103 to come here? 48 00:02:29,235 --> 00:02:31,803 Know it or not, you came here to be tested. 49 00:02:33,370 --> 00:02:35,023 And this is a test. 50 00:02:37,548 --> 00:02:39,202 This is our withering. 51 00:02:41,682 --> 00:02:44,076 Our time to prove through suffering... 52 00:02:44,903 --> 00:02:48,123 that we are worthy of the miracle that's to come. 53 00:02:50,213 --> 00:02:51,692 [clears throat] 54 00:02:53,781 --> 00:02:58,177 The kingdom of heaven is coming. 55 00:03:00,179 --> 00:03:03,530 And those of us that pass this test 56 00:03:03,661 --> 00:03:05,706 will be the worthy. 57 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,058 And those of us that fail this test... 58 00:03:12,452 --> 00:03:15,890 well... you're gonna have to answer to God. 59 00:03:16,848 --> 00:03:20,025 [panting] And I can't-- 60 00:03:20,808 --> 00:03:22,332 -[thud] -[man] David! 61 00:03:54,886 --> 00:03:57,105 [wind whistling] 62 00:04:00,326 --> 00:04:02,110 [sighing] 63 00:04:02,937 --> 00:04:04,330 You're burning up. 64 00:04:05,331 --> 00:04:06,767 [wincing] 65 00:04:06,898 --> 00:04:09,117 Uh, I'll get him some water. 66 00:04:10,423 --> 00:04:12,686 [panting] 67 00:04:19,780 --> 00:04:21,216 [panting] 68 00:04:42,803 --> 00:04:44,457 Which one's my dad? 69 00:04:59,298 --> 00:05:02,301 Hey. You probably shouldn't be in here. 70 00:05:02,432 --> 00:05:05,173 You know that old myrtle tree outside? 71 00:05:05,304 --> 00:05:06,958 -The one out front? -Yeah. 72 00:05:07,088 --> 00:05:08,481 [Thibodeau] Mm-hmm. 73 00:05:11,049 --> 00:05:13,356 My dad and I planted it when I was five. 74 00:05:16,097 --> 00:05:18,273 He loved that old tree. 75 00:05:20,537 --> 00:05:23,104 He always wanted to be buried next to it. 76 00:05:25,846 --> 00:05:27,587 And now, look. 77 00:05:27,761 --> 00:05:31,896 Instead, he's getting buried with buckets and shovels like... 78 00:05:32,070 --> 00:05:34,377 -like a piece of garbage. -Hey. 79 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,032 -[sobs] -Hey. 80 00:05:43,298 --> 00:05:44,430 [whirring] 81 00:05:49,566 --> 00:05:51,394 [whirring] 82 00:05:57,008 --> 00:05:59,314 [faint rumbling] 83 00:06:08,889 --> 00:06:10,891 [whirring] 84 00:06:12,676 --> 00:06:13,764 [clicks] 85 00:06:13,894 --> 00:06:16,027 Get back. Get back. 86 00:06:17,376 --> 00:06:19,900 [Steve] You promised to stay off our land. 87 00:06:20,031 --> 00:06:22,425 Well, David made a promise, too. 88 00:06:22,555 --> 00:06:25,602 He gave us his word, after his message was played, he'd come out. 89 00:06:25,732 --> 00:06:29,562 He didn't come out. He-- he broke his promise. 90 00:06:30,868 --> 00:06:32,260 Could you put him on the phone? 91 00:06:32,391 --> 00:06:33,784 No. He doesn't want to talk to you right now. 92 00:06:34,611 --> 00:06:36,482 [Gary] Look, Steve, my bosses are frustrated. 93 00:06:36,656 --> 00:06:38,571 They don't understand why you didn't come out. 94 00:06:38,702 --> 00:06:41,618 Look, I'm embarrassed about that, on a personal level. 95 00:06:41,748 --> 00:06:45,926 We were gonna come out, but... God told David that we needed to wait. 96 00:06:46,057 --> 00:06:49,190 -God told him? -Yeah, just like you guys 97 00:06:49,321 --> 00:06:52,803 follow a higher authority, we do too. 98 00:06:53,717 --> 00:06:55,022 Okay. So, what now? 99 00:06:56,154 --> 00:07:01,289 So, now, we wait for a sign from God to tell us to come out. 100 00:07:05,729 --> 00:07:07,426 Look... 101 00:07:08,340 --> 00:07:12,300 I know this all probably sounds funny to ya. 102 00:07:13,476 --> 00:07:14,912 But... 103 00:07:15,042 --> 00:07:18,611 what if there is a higher power than you or I, Gary? 104 00:07:19,786 --> 00:07:23,834 And that higher power, He speaks to David? 105 00:07:25,183 --> 00:07:27,490 If there is a God in this universe, 106 00:07:27,620 --> 00:07:30,449 and you've got the laws of man and the laws of God, 107 00:07:30,580 --> 00:07:34,497 and that God that has led David his entire life 108 00:07:34,671 --> 00:07:37,151 says to him, "Wait." 109 00:07:38,501 --> 00:07:40,459 I mean, what is he supposed to do? 110 00:07:40,590 --> 00:07:42,200 Well, I have to be honest with you, Steve. 111 00:07:42,374 --> 00:07:44,376 I don't know how my bosses are gonna respond 112 00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:47,335 when I tell them we're waiting for a sign from God. 113 00:07:49,033 --> 00:07:51,949 You know, what I could really use is a sign of good faith. 114 00:07:53,385 --> 00:07:55,256 If David could send some of the people out. 115 00:07:55,387 --> 00:08:00,044 What, do you think we're hostages here? No one is a hostage here, Gary. 116 00:08:00,174 --> 00:08:03,526 Everyone is free to come and go as they please. 117 00:08:04,570 --> 00:08:06,267 Then why isn't anyone coming out? 118 00:08:06,398 --> 00:08:09,053 Because, right now, everyone feels safer in here 119 00:08:09,183 --> 00:08:11,229 than they do out there with you. 120 00:08:11,403 --> 00:08:14,188 And because once you get into this building, 121 00:08:14,319 --> 00:08:17,061 you're going to be able to mess with the evidence in any way that you want. 122 00:08:17,191 --> 00:08:19,716 And you can make up any story that you want, 123 00:08:19,846 --> 00:08:21,413 but if this building stands, 124 00:08:21,544 --> 00:08:24,155 and the reporters and the press get to see the evidence, 125 00:08:24,285 --> 00:08:28,246 then it is going to be clearly shown what happened here, what these men-- 126 00:08:28,376 --> 00:08:31,075 what yourmen came in here to do. 127 00:08:33,033 --> 00:08:35,732 -You want us to come out? -David, listen. You've gotta-- 128 00:08:35,906 --> 00:08:38,430 Then why are you bringing these tanks in here? 129 00:08:38,561 --> 00:08:41,868 Do you know what that tells me? [panting] 130 00:08:41,999 --> 00:08:43,566 That this is war. 131 00:08:45,350 --> 00:08:48,614 Why are you sending all these people in here, guns a-blazing? 132 00:08:48,745 --> 00:08:50,398 For war, Gary. 133 00:08:51,312 --> 00:08:53,271 -[helicopter whirring] -And now, these tanks? 134 00:08:53,445 --> 00:08:55,273 And these guys surrounding us? 135 00:08:56,927 --> 00:09:02,149 You say you want us to come out, but it sure doesn't look like that to us. 136 00:09:03,629 --> 00:09:05,239 David, I-- 137 00:09:10,549 --> 00:09:11,681 [gasps] 138 00:09:12,986 --> 00:09:15,162 [grunts] 139 00:09:17,121 --> 00:09:18,426 [sighs] 140 00:09:25,129 --> 00:09:26,739 "Personal level." 141 00:09:28,262 --> 00:09:29,742 "On a personal level." 142 00:09:30,830 --> 00:09:32,745 What'd we just learn from this conversation? 143 00:09:32,876 --> 00:09:35,269 That they'll do whatever this Koresh guy tells 'em. 144 00:09:35,443 --> 00:09:37,271 No, we already knew that. 145 00:09:38,055 --> 00:09:41,188 But Steve said that he was embarrassed about that "on a personal level." 146 00:09:41,319 --> 00:09:43,190 He's separating himself from Koresh. 147 00:09:43,974 --> 00:09:45,628 -Saying he doesn't agree. -Huh. 148 00:09:46,454 --> 00:09:48,587 What can you tell me about this Steve Schneider? 149 00:09:48,718 --> 00:09:52,243 Uh, well, he was a professor of theology at the University of Hawaii. 150 00:09:52,373 --> 00:09:54,767 -Uh-huh. -He's originally from Wisconsin. 151 00:09:54,898 --> 00:09:57,204 He and his wife joined the group six years ago. 152 00:09:57,335 --> 00:10:00,338 He's their star recruiter. The group has nearly doubled since he joined. 153 00:10:00,512 --> 00:10:02,688 -Really? -Our informant says 154 00:10:02,819 --> 00:10:04,951 that he's the glue that keeps this place together. 155 00:10:05,082 --> 00:10:06,518 And get this. 156 00:10:06,649 --> 00:10:08,389 His wife, Judy, 157 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,522 recently had a baby with Koresh. 158 00:10:10,696 --> 00:10:14,482 [whistles] That can't be good for the relationship. 159 00:10:14,657 --> 00:10:15,658 Yeah. 160 00:10:15,788 --> 00:10:17,572 [Walter chuckles] 161 00:10:18,791 --> 00:10:20,575 If Steve brought most of these people in, 162 00:10:20,706 --> 00:10:23,361 I would guess he feels responsible for their well-being. 163 00:10:23,535 --> 00:10:27,582 Right? Let's focus all our attention on him. 164 00:10:28,366 --> 00:10:31,325 If we can break Steve away, this whole thing ends. 165 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,593 [Steve] David...? 166 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:41,379 [voice echoes] Can you hear me? 167 00:10:42,554 --> 00:10:44,687 I'd like to send some people out. 168 00:10:45,470 --> 00:10:47,864 Jaydean's kids are without a mother, 169 00:10:47,994 --> 00:10:52,869 and Margaret and Catherine, they're just-- 170 00:10:52,999 --> 00:10:54,392 they're just too old for this. 171 00:10:54,566 --> 00:10:56,481 [Rachel] We are running low on food. 172 00:10:57,308 --> 00:10:59,223 And our water supply is real bad. 173 00:11:01,312 --> 00:11:03,575 The less mouths to feed, the better. 174 00:11:06,752 --> 00:11:07,666 [knocking] 175 00:11:09,407 --> 00:11:11,670 -Well, that's getting worse. -Yeah. 176 00:11:12,627 --> 00:11:13,628 Let me see. 177 00:11:14,717 --> 00:11:15,718 It hurts real bad. 178 00:11:16,719 --> 00:11:18,155 [Steve] Ooh-whee. 179 00:11:19,417 --> 00:11:21,114 -Hey. -Hmm? 180 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:25,728 -I'm thinking you should go. -Well, is David going? 181 00:11:26,772 --> 00:11:28,426 [sighs] No. 182 00:11:30,602 --> 00:11:33,039 -Then I'm not going. -Look at your finger. 183 00:11:33,170 --> 00:11:37,609 If that infection spreads, you-- I mean, you could lose your hand. 184 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:39,567 -I know. -You could lose your life. 185 00:11:39,742 --> 00:11:42,788 It hurts so bad, I can't sleep. 186 00:11:45,182 --> 00:11:46,357 Cut it off. 187 00:11:47,227 --> 00:11:48,272 What? 188 00:11:48,402 --> 00:11:49,273 I'm gonna lose it anyway, Steve. 189 00:11:49,403 --> 00:11:50,840 -Cut it off. -No! 190 00:11:51,928 --> 00:11:54,278 Has everyone around here lost their minds? 191 00:11:55,061 --> 00:11:57,760 Nobody's cutting your finger off! And I'm sending you outside 192 00:11:57,934 --> 00:11:59,587 -to get medical attention. -No, you're not! 193 00:11:59,718 --> 00:12:01,589 -Yes I am-- -No, you are not! 194 00:12:07,857 --> 00:12:10,773 I just got off the phone. They're sending four people out. 195 00:12:10,903 --> 00:12:13,950 -Two of 'em, kids. -That's a start. 196 00:12:14,124 --> 00:12:16,213 Four people seems hardly cause for celebration. 197 00:12:16,343 --> 00:12:19,782 Well, they're starting to trickle out. The strategy's working. 198 00:12:21,827 --> 00:12:24,221 Now, you think you can help me coordinate bringing 'em out? 199 00:12:27,311 --> 00:12:28,442 Yeah, sure. 200 00:12:32,707 --> 00:12:34,448 [baby moans] 201 00:12:57,994 --> 00:13:01,301 [whining] Mama. 202 00:13:01,432 --> 00:13:03,434 Mama. Ma... 203 00:13:15,054 --> 00:13:16,490 Hey, there. 204 00:13:18,362 --> 00:13:21,278 I'm Gary. What's your name? 205 00:13:23,236 --> 00:13:25,195 -Leona. -Leona? 206 00:13:25,325 --> 00:13:27,284 Such a pretty name. 207 00:13:29,329 --> 00:13:32,506 Hey, why don't we call your mom and tell her you're okay? 208 00:13:35,205 --> 00:13:38,599 -We can't call her. -Why not? 209 00:13:39,513 --> 00:13:41,472 Because you killed her. 210 00:13:44,344 --> 00:13:45,868 [sighs] 211 00:13:59,969 --> 00:14:02,232 -Hey, Steve? -Yep? 212 00:14:03,711 --> 00:14:06,279 I was wondering if you could talk to the FBI about Perry. 213 00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:08,891 See if they'll let us bury his body outside. 214 00:14:10,109 --> 00:14:12,155 I asked you to bury his body in the storm shelter. 215 00:14:12,285 --> 00:14:14,331 -I know. It's just-- Michelle. -Mm-hmm. 216 00:14:15,114 --> 00:14:18,030 I know it would mean a lot to her if we could bury him by the myrtle tree-- 217 00:14:18,161 --> 00:14:20,293 It's impossible. It's not gonna happen. 218 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,383 Could you just ask? Please? 219 00:14:24,776 --> 00:14:26,734 [sighs] I can try. 220 00:14:27,648 --> 00:14:29,694 [Ron] All right, today, we got something a little different for y'all. 221 00:14:29,824 --> 00:14:33,089 Our guest today is a Dr. James Tabor, professor of-- what was it? 222 00:14:33,219 --> 00:14:35,526 I specialize in emergent religions. 223 00:14:35,656 --> 00:14:37,397 Emergent religions. 224 00:14:37,528 --> 00:14:40,966 Let's talk about your interest in this Branch Davidian cult. 225 00:14:41,097 --> 00:14:43,316 Yeah, I'm gonna stop you right there, Ron. 226 00:14:44,143 --> 00:14:47,146 I would propose that there's no such thing as a cult. 227 00:14:47,277 --> 00:14:50,236 "Cult" is a judgment word used to talk about somebody else's 228 00:14:50,367 --> 00:14:52,195 tightly-knit religious group. 229 00:14:52,325 --> 00:14:55,328 Nobody in the world belongs to what they see as a cult. 230 00:14:55,459 --> 00:14:58,201 [Ron] Yeah, but there are certain traits you think of 231 00:14:58,331 --> 00:15:00,986 -when you think of a cult. -[Tabor] That's true. 232 00:15:01,117 --> 00:15:05,251 The early Christians, by our definition, belonged to a cult. 233 00:15:05,382 --> 00:15:07,950 [Ron] So you're saying Jesus was a cult leader? 234 00:15:08,733 --> 00:15:10,561 [Tabor] I wasn't saying it exactly like that, 235 00:15:10,691 --> 00:15:15,261 but by the common definition of "cult," yes. 236 00:15:15,392 --> 00:15:19,178 [Ron] Oh, that got the phones ringing. You done it now, Dr. Tabor. 237 00:15:20,658 --> 00:15:25,054 Excuse me. My son is in Mt. Carmel, and I need to talk to him. 238 00:15:26,098 --> 00:15:28,013 How did you get past the barricade? 239 00:15:28,144 --> 00:15:31,712 Listen, I am not altogether sure how he got mixed up in all this mess, 240 00:15:31,843 --> 00:15:34,411 but I know if I could talk to him, if I could just speak to him, 241 00:15:34,541 --> 00:15:36,630 that I could get him to come out. 242 00:15:37,457 --> 00:15:38,981 I'm sorry, I can't let you do that. 243 00:15:39,111 --> 00:15:40,634 -Why not? -Because I don't wanna give him 244 00:15:40,765 --> 00:15:43,855 or anyone in there the chance to tie up loose ends. 245 00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:47,990 You think that they're gonna kill themselves? 246 00:15:48,816 --> 00:15:50,079 Doesn't matter what I think. 247 00:15:50,862 --> 00:15:53,560 But I'm not gonna give them a chance to say goodbye either way. 248 00:15:53,691 --> 00:15:55,388 Please escort her back behind the checkpoint. 249 00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:57,521 I just wanna know if he's all right. 250 00:15:57,651 --> 00:15:59,001 His name is David Thibodeau. 251 00:15:59,131 --> 00:16:00,872 The news reports aren't releasing any names. 252 00:16:01,046 --> 00:16:04,093 I'm sorry, ma'am. I don't have any more information at this time. 253 00:16:04,223 --> 00:16:08,097 I just need to know if he's alive! Please! 254 00:16:11,709 --> 00:16:13,711 [Rachel] David, your fever's not breaking. 255 00:16:13,841 --> 00:16:16,888 I'm afraid you're going to die if we don't get you help. 256 00:16:19,064 --> 00:16:20,413 [David murmurs] 257 00:16:21,458 --> 00:16:23,373 It's all part of God's plan. 258 00:16:23,503 --> 00:16:26,463 No. I just lost my father. I'm not gonna lose you, too. 259 00:16:27,464 --> 00:16:29,161 [phone rings] 260 00:16:32,686 --> 00:16:35,341 -Hello? -[Gary] Hello. Who's this? 261 00:16:37,256 --> 00:16:40,216 -Cyrus. -David's son. 262 00:16:40,346 --> 00:16:42,218 -Yeah. -Well, hello, Cyrus. 263 00:16:42,348 --> 00:16:44,350 Can you put your dad on the phone? 264 00:16:46,222 --> 00:16:48,398 Are you gonna kill me? 265 00:16:49,225 --> 00:16:53,272 [gulps] No. No one's going to kill you. 266 00:16:54,056 --> 00:16:55,274 [Steve] Cyrus? 267 00:16:56,101 --> 00:16:57,450 Thanks, buddy. 268 00:16:58,843 --> 00:17:00,366 Come here. 269 00:17:01,498 --> 00:17:02,673 Hello, this is Steve Schneider. 270 00:17:04,066 --> 00:17:06,677 Oh, hey, Steve. Just wanted to give you a quick call 271 00:17:06,807 --> 00:17:09,201 and let you know that everybody arrived safe. 272 00:17:09,332 --> 00:17:12,683 Good. Well, I hope that shows you what we're about. 273 00:17:13,466 --> 00:17:15,468 We wanna see this resolved peacefully. 274 00:17:15,642 --> 00:17:19,472 Of course. I can tell you're the voice of reason in there. 275 00:17:19,646 --> 00:17:22,997 I bet people count on you to make sure they're taken care of. 276 00:17:23,128 --> 00:17:25,174 [Steve] I'm not sure that's true. 277 00:17:25,304 --> 00:17:28,873 Well, from what I hear, you're the reason the group's grown like it has. 278 00:17:29,003 --> 00:17:32,355 The reason that the group has grown is because of David's teaching, 279 00:17:32,485 --> 00:17:33,965 not because of anything I'm doing. 280 00:17:34,096 --> 00:17:35,488 I think you're being modest. 281 00:17:37,099 --> 00:17:38,970 Knowing everything you know now... 282 00:17:39,797 --> 00:17:42,930 are you happy you brought all those people in there? 283 00:17:43,714 --> 00:17:45,716 I'm not sure what you're driving at, Gary. 284 00:17:45,846 --> 00:17:50,155 Well, do you think David has everyone's best interest in mind? 285 00:17:55,117 --> 00:17:57,249 Yeah. I do. 286 00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:59,686 Because, forgive me for saying this, 287 00:17:59,860 --> 00:18:02,907 but I can't help but notice a trend that when God comes to talk 288 00:18:03,037 --> 00:18:05,083 to modern-day prophets, 289 00:18:05,866 --> 00:18:08,086 it seems one thing He always tells them to do 290 00:18:08,217 --> 00:18:10,828 is have sex with lots of young women. 291 00:18:11,785 --> 00:18:14,788 Well, that's a pretty cynical view of what we're doing here. 292 00:18:14,919 --> 00:18:17,400 I'm not sure I appreciate your tone with that one. 293 00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:20,794 -Then explain it to me. -I'm not stupid. 294 00:18:20,925 --> 00:18:24,624 I know you're trying to create dissent between me and David. 295 00:18:25,408 --> 00:18:27,540 You're right, I am. 'Cause you know what I think? 296 00:18:28,498 --> 00:18:30,761 I think David's dying, 297 00:18:30,891 --> 00:18:33,111 and I think he doesn't mind bringing all of you with him. 298 00:18:33,242 --> 00:18:35,157 You know, Gary, where you've got this all wrong, 299 00:18:35,287 --> 00:18:37,028 the thing that you're missing... 300 00:18:37,159 --> 00:18:38,769 is this is real. 301 00:18:38,899 --> 00:18:41,337 I do believe that David is the Lamb of God. 302 00:18:41,511 --> 00:18:43,513 Not because of any trick he's pulled, 303 00:18:43,687 --> 00:18:47,517 but because of what I have seen with my own two eyes. 304 00:18:47,647 --> 00:18:52,826 But he's lost his way, Steve. I think you can see it. 305 00:18:54,045 --> 00:18:58,876 For years, David has been prophesying exactlywhat is happening here. 306 00:18:59,050 --> 00:19:02,009 From the way you came in, to the tanks, the soldiers, everything. 307 00:19:02,140 --> 00:19:04,882 I can't figure out another explanation that makes any sense. 308 00:19:05,709 --> 00:19:09,191 For a minor weapons violation? All this? 309 00:19:09,365 --> 00:19:11,323 You think he's lost his way? 310 00:19:11,454 --> 00:19:15,632 Everything David has prophesied has come true. 311 00:19:20,202 --> 00:19:22,116 [sighs] 312 00:19:29,733 --> 00:19:32,083 Hey, guys, stay away from the window. 313 00:19:32,214 --> 00:19:34,041 -It's not safe. -[helicopter whirring] 314 00:19:40,091 --> 00:19:41,962 [Cyrus] Why are they doing that? 315 00:19:42,093 --> 00:19:43,616 I don't know. 316 00:19:43,747 --> 00:19:45,618 Come on. Let's go. 317 00:19:46,706 --> 00:19:49,535 -[helicopter whirring] -[Walter] What's going on? 318 00:19:52,103 --> 00:19:53,670 [sighs] 319 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,933 What goes through people's heads, you know? 320 00:19:56,063 --> 00:19:59,241 I mean, these HRT guys, what makes grown men act like that? 321 00:19:59,371 --> 00:20:02,244 They're mooning kids, for God's sake. 322 00:20:02,374 --> 00:20:04,071 They're just built that way. 323 00:20:04,942 --> 00:20:08,250 The sad thing is, the Davidians can't tell us apart from them. 324 00:20:12,602 --> 00:20:14,560 I need you to get me a video camera. 325 00:20:16,345 --> 00:20:18,390 Ready? How's my hair? 326 00:20:18,521 --> 00:20:20,087 It's about as good as it's gonna get. 327 00:20:20,262 --> 00:20:22,046 -Knock it off. -[laughs] 328 00:20:22,176 --> 00:20:23,700 All right. We're good. 329 00:20:25,092 --> 00:20:28,226 Hello. I'm Gary Noesner. 330 00:20:29,053 --> 00:20:30,750 The notorious. 331 00:20:30,881 --> 00:20:33,275 And... 332 00:20:33,449 --> 00:20:34,841 this is my family. 333 00:20:36,408 --> 00:20:38,062 Yeah, that's my wife, Carol, there, 334 00:20:38,192 --> 00:20:43,154 and my kids, Kelly, Katy, and Rusty, and I love 'em. 335 00:20:43,328 --> 00:20:45,852 I'm sure you love your kids the same way. 336 00:20:46,026 --> 00:20:49,508 And there is literally nothing I wouldn't do to keep my children safe. 337 00:20:51,075 --> 00:20:53,120 I'm sure we share that feeling. 338 00:20:55,297 --> 00:20:57,647 Now, any way you look at it, this is a bad situation, 339 00:20:57,777 --> 00:21:02,478 but I wanna make sure that your kids remain safe through it all. 340 00:21:03,392 --> 00:21:05,437 So, please... 341 00:21:06,438 --> 00:21:08,310 please work with me. 342 00:21:09,136 --> 00:21:10,268 Help me keep your kids safe. 343 00:21:10,399 --> 00:21:12,575 [whirring] 344 00:21:14,228 --> 00:21:15,795 [baby crying] 345 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:17,884 [whispers] Rachel? 346 00:21:19,930 --> 00:21:21,584 [baby crying] 347 00:21:22,411 --> 00:21:24,761 Hey, I got a weird question. 348 00:21:24,891 --> 00:21:26,197 Y'know, I... 349 00:21:28,199 --> 00:21:31,550 Uh... I'm not producing any milk. 350 00:21:32,899 --> 00:21:36,512 And... I was wondering if you had some to spare for Mayanah. 351 00:21:36,686 --> 00:21:40,342 I'm having the same problem. All the mothers are. 352 00:21:41,168 --> 00:21:44,650 -You are? -Yeah. Sorry. 353 00:21:44,781 --> 00:21:48,132 -Oh, God. -[Rachel sniffles] 354 00:21:48,262 --> 00:21:50,264 All right. 355 00:21:52,136 --> 00:21:54,486 -[baby crying] -Shh, shh, shh... 356 00:21:56,227 --> 00:21:58,098 [groans] 357 00:21:58,229 --> 00:22:00,449 This universe is mine. 358 00:22:00,579 --> 00:22:01,711 [Walter] I can't believe Koresh likes this. 359 00:22:01,885 --> 00:22:03,408 I am God here! 360 00:22:04,235 --> 00:22:06,237 -Jesus. -[chuckles] 361 00:22:07,325 --> 00:22:09,414 -I don't get this movie. -Mm. 362 00:22:09,588 --> 00:22:11,808 I can't say it makes my top 10 list either. 363 00:22:11,938 --> 00:22:14,376 [man on video] You're wrong. You need to be led-- 364 00:22:14,550 --> 00:22:15,551 -[phone ringing] -Ready? 365 00:22:15,725 --> 00:22:17,596 -Yeah. -[monitor beeps] 366 00:22:18,380 --> 00:22:20,599 -Hello? -Hey, Gary, it's Steve. 367 00:22:20,773 --> 00:22:24,516 Um, we just wanted to say thanks for sending the videotape. 368 00:22:24,647 --> 00:22:26,126 We understand what you're trying to do, 369 00:22:26,257 --> 00:22:28,781 and we really appreciate you making that effort. 370 00:22:28,955 --> 00:22:31,436 I just wanted you to know that there's some people out here 371 00:22:31,567 --> 00:22:33,612 who care about what happens to you, that's all. 372 00:22:33,743 --> 00:22:35,571 Yeah. Um... 373 00:22:35,701 --> 00:22:38,748 I do have one small problem, 374 00:22:38,878 --> 00:22:41,577 and I could really use your help. 375 00:22:41,707 --> 00:22:43,753 -What kinda problem? -[sighs] So... 376 00:22:43,883 --> 00:22:45,929 I guess because of the stress of all this, 377 00:22:46,973 --> 00:22:51,804 the mothers who are nursing have... have stopped lactating. 378 00:22:51,935 --> 00:22:55,417 So... we need milk. 379 00:22:55,547 --> 00:22:58,245 For the babies. Could you send some in? 380 00:22:59,072 --> 00:23:02,511 -Let me talk to my bosses. -Okay. Thanks, Gary. 381 00:23:02,641 --> 00:23:03,903 You bet. 382 00:23:07,211 --> 00:23:10,910 No, I'm not throwing them a picnic on national TV. 383 00:23:11,041 --> 00:23:13,347 They want milk, they can come out and get it. 384 00:23:13,478 --> 00:23:17,961 Look. Usually the people I negotiate with are backed into a corner. 385 00:23:18,091 --> 00:23:21,443 They need something. And that's what gives me leverage. 386 00:23:21,573 --> 00:23:25,098 But these people, they just want us to go away. 387 00:23:25,229 --> 00:23:27,927 The only way I've been able to motivate them is with goodwill. 388 00:23:28,058 --> 00:23:31,714 But now, their babies need milk, and we can give it to them. 389 00:23:32,932 --> 00:23:35,761 This is something we can build on. We can use this. 390 00:23:37,415 --> 00:23:40,331 So, Steve, I talked to my bosses, 391 00:23:40,462 --> 00:23:41,941 and they're gonna give you the milk. 392 00:23:42,072 --> 00:23:43,856 Aw, Gary. [sighs] 393 00:23:43,987 --> 00:23:46,380 Thank you. I really appreciate that. 394 00:23:47,338 --> 00:23:50,776 But there's one condition. You're gonna have to send some kids out. 395 00:23:53,562 --> 00:23:57,609 Wait. Um... let me just make sure I'm hearing you correctly. 396 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,830 Um, you want us to trade... 397 00:24:02,135 --> 00:24:03,310 our kids for the milk? 398 00:24:04,137 --> 00:24:06,313 I wouldn't really put it like that. I'm just saying that-- 399 00:24:06,444 --> 00:24:09,012 Look, I don't wanna point out the obvious, but if we send out our kids, 400 00:24:09,142 --> 00:24:10,622 then we won't need the milk, will we? 401 00:24:10,753 --> 00:24:11,667 Steve? 402 00:24:11,797 --> 00:24:14,321 -Yeah? -May I? 403 00:24:15,366 --> 00:24:17,803 Um, yeah. David wants to talk to you. 404 00:24:18,587 --> 00:24:20,371 Yeah, how much milk we talking here, Gary? 405 00:24:20,545 --> 00:24:22,112 -David-- -Two quarts per kid? Three? 406 00:24:22,242 --> 00:24:25,202 I mean, some kids gotta be worth more than others. 407 00:24:25,332 --> 00:24:29,902 Cyrus, my son, he's eight, but he can fix any car engine you put in front of him. 408 00:24:30,076 --> 00:24:33,645 That's gotta be worth, what, at least three quarts and a milkshake? 409 00:24:34,472 --> 00:24:35,604 You people. 410 00:24:36,387 --> 00:24:37,997 [handset clicks] 411 00:24:38,998 --> 00:24:40,043 [sighs] 412 00:24:40,217 --> 00:24:42,219 You shouldn't have done that. 413 00:24:42,349 --> 00:24:43,786 You know we have to work with them. 414 00:24:44,961 --> 00:24:45,831 Yeah, well... 415 00:24:45,962 --> 00:24:48,355 good luck with that, Steve. 416 00:25:07,592 --> 00:25:11,204 Rachel? This is how I'd like to ration out the food and water. 417 00:25:12,031 --> 00:25:13,250 Can you take care of that? 418 00:25:13,424 --> 00:25:15,295 No one's gonna be happy with this. 419 00:25:15,426 --> 00:25:18,037 Well, if they don't like it, they're welcome to leave. 420 00:25:19,778 --> 00:25:22,955 Steve. Steve, did you get any news about the milk? 421 00:25:23,086 --> 00:25:27,525 Yeah. I'm-- I'm-- I'm working on it. I promise. 422 00:25:27,656 --> 00:25:29,440 Hey, Steve, have you had a chance to talk to the FBI about Perry? 423 00:25:29,614 --> 00:25:33,226 Look, Thibs, just bury the body like I asked you. Okay? 424 00:25:39,145 --> 00:25:41,104 -[Gary] You get bacon on yours? -[Walter] Yeah. 425 00:25:41,234 --> 00:25:44,890 Oh. I shoulda gotten bacon on mine. 426 00:25:46,631 --> 00:25:49,895 You know, that's how we stopped the Clarksville prison riot. 427 00:25:50,026 --> 00:25:51,854 -With bacon? -Oh, yeah. 428 00:25:52,985 --> 00:25:56,119 It was after day eight, and we took a bunch of bacon 429 00:25:56,249 --> 00:25:58,425 and threw it on some coals. 430 00:25:58,556 --> 00:26:01,472 The prisoners smelled it and were instantly overcome with hunger. 431 00:26:01,603 --> 00:26:04,736 And I told them, if they came out, they could eat as much as them want. 432 00:26:06,129 --> 00:26:09,480 Never underestimate what a hungry man will do for bacon. 433 00:26:09,611 --> 00:26:11,264 Shame the Davidians don't eat pork. 434 00:26:11,438 --> 00:26:12,962 -It is. -[chuckles] 435 00:26:15,268 --> 00:26:17,270 [man on radio] We've got movement outside the compound. 436 00:26:17,401 --> 00:26:19,185 - All agents to their posts. -Shit. 437 00:26:19,316 --> 00:26:21,013 Prepare to fire on command. 438 00:26:21,971 --> 00:26:23,494 [phone rings] 439 00:26:24,321 --> 00:26:26,236 -It's Steve. -Steve! What's going on? 440 00:26:26,366 --> 00:26:28,499 Tactical says someone exited the compound. 441 00:26:29,456 --> 00:26:30,414 Shit! 442 00:26:36,812 --> 00:26:38,770 It's Thibodeau. He's unarmed! 443 00:26:38,901 --> 00:26:41,555 He's just trying to bury a body. Please don't shoot him! 444 00:26:41,686 --> 00:26:42,818 Okay, hang on, Steve. 445 00:26:42,948 --> 00:26:44,776 -Where's Decker? -I don't know. 446 00:26:46,169 --> 00:26:48,475 [dispatcher] Copy sniper one, sniper one, you got the loop. 447 00:26:54,481 --> 00:26:57,223 -[Wayne] Steve! -Get out of my way! 448 00:26:58,529 --> 00:27:00,662 Thibs! You gotta get back in here! 449 00:27:08,365 --> 00:27:09,888 Tell your man to stand down! 450 00:27:10,019 --> 00:27:12,325 This is a tactical decision. It's not your call, Gary. 451 00:27:12,456 --> 00:27:14,371 No, no. He's just trying to bury a body. 452 00:27:14,501 --> 00:27:16,199 And I'm telling you, you don't know what he's burying. 453 00:27:16,329 --> 00:27:17,679 That could be a bomb, for all we know. 454 00:27:17,809 --> 00:27:19,419 Damn it, I'm telling you, the kid's unarmed. 455 00:27:19,550 --> 00:27:21,030 And I'm telling you, you don't know that, Gary. 456 00:27:21,204 --> 00:27:23,510 Now, I can't have people strolling outside, 457 00:27:23,641 --> 00:27:25,861 walking around, looking at our positions on things. 458 00:27:25,991 --> 00:27:28,167 The kid is trying to bury one of his dead, Mitch. 459 00:27:28,298 --> 00:27:32,345 They let the ATF take their wounded away. Show 'em the same respect. 460 00:27:32,476 --> 00:27:35,914 They lost my respect when they started killing federal agents, Gary. 461 00:27:36,088 --> 00:27:38,351 All right, all right. You want another Ruby Ridge on your hands? 462 00:27:38,482 --> 00:27:40,179 -Yeah. -Go ahead, shoot that boy. 463 00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:41,877 But just remember, the ATF's not gonna be around 464 00:27:42,007 --> 00:27:44,183 -to take the blame this time! -I don't give a shit! 465 00:27:47,621 --> 00:27:50,712 Requesting permission to take the shot. Over. 466 00:27:52,104 --> 00:27:54,367 [sniper] I have the target in my view. 467 00:27:54,541 --> 00:27:56,500 [mutters] 468 00:27:58,110 --> 00:28:02,375 Repeat, requesting permission to take the shot. Over. 469 00:28:08,207 --> 00:28:09,556 Stand down. 470 00:28:33,798 --> 00:28:35,278 Thank you. Good morning, everyone. 471 00:28:36,105 --> 00:28:40,762 A few days ago, the FBI learned that the Branch Davidians ran out of milk. 472 00:28:41,588 --> 00:28:43,460 And they are no longer able to feed their children. 473 00:28:43,634 --> 00:28:45,288 Nice of them to tell the truth for once. 474 00:28:45,418 --> 00:28:47,116 Numerous attempts have been made by the FBI 475 00:28:47,290 --> 00:28:49,509 to deliver milk for their babies, 476 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,120 but they have all been refused. 477 00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:56,255 It seems they are using their own children as pawns in this thing. 478 00:28:57,126 --> 00:28:59,171 David Koresh... 479 00:28:59,998 --> 00:29:02,218 let us bring milk to those children. 480 00:29:02,348 --> 00:29:05,569 Pawns, Gary? We're using our kids as pawns? 481 00:29:05,699 --> 00:29:08,006 -Is that what you think? -No, it's not. 482 00:29:08,137 --> 00:29:09,834 Then why are they saying that on TV? 483 00:29:10,661 --> 00:29:12,445 -I don't know. -Your boss said 484 00:29:12,576 --> 00:29:14,621 they have made attempts to deliver milk. 485 00:29:14,752 --> 00:29:17,189 Now, when did that happen? Because we've been here the entire time, 486 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,496 and I don't recall anyone knocking on our door! 487 00:29:20,540 --> 00:29:23,674 Steve, look. I wanna get you that milk. That's the God's honest truth. 488 00:29:23,848 --> 00:29:26,459 But you're gonna have to let out some of the kids in return. 489 00:29:26,590 --> 00:29:28,853 I'm sorry, Gary. That's not gonna happen. 490 00:29:28,984 --> 00:29:31,290 -[line clicks] -[sighs] 491 00:29:34,032 --> 00:29:35,468 [sighs] 492 00:29:35,599 --> 00:29:37,906 [reporter] With cult leader David Koresh 493 00:29:38,036 --> 00:29:40,038 becoming less involved in direct negotiations, 494 00:29:40,212 --> 00:29:43,563 authorities suspect his wounds may be getting worse. 495 00:29:43,737 --> 00:29:47,785 Agents told cult members that those not charged with serious offenses 496 00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:50,527 eventually will be allowed to return to the compound 497 00:29:50,701 --> 00:29:53,008 once it's cleared of the crime scene. 498 00:29:53,138 --> 00:29:56,185 -Sheriff Harwell? -Yeah? 499 00:29:56,315 --> 00:29:59,144 I'm Gary Noesner, Head Negotiator, FBI. 500 00:30:00,015 --> 00:30:02,408 Mm. Can I help you? 501 00:30:03,583 --> 00:30:05,716 -You mind? -[murmurs] 502 00:30:08,066 --> 00:30:09,502 Well... 503 00:30:10,286 --> 00:30:14,681 when I can't get a guy to trust me, I try and find someone he will trust. 504 00:30:16,031 --> 00:30:18,163 And David Koresh trusts you. 505 00:30:18,947 --> 00:30:19,861 Mm. 506 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,516 I could really use your help. 507 00:30:27,477 --> 00:30:29,087 [phone ringing] 508 00:30:29,218 --> 00:30:30,567 [grunts] 509 00:30:31,481 --> 00:30:33,265 [ringing continues] 510 00:30:36,616 --> 00:30:40,882 -[groans] This is David. -David, it's Sheriff Harwell. 511 00:30:41,056 --> 00:30:42,579 [sighs] 512 00:30:43,362 --> 00:30:44,668 Hey, Jack. 513 00:30:45,930 --> 00:30:48,237 Sure is nice to hear a friendly voice. 514 00:30:48,411 --> 00:30:51,718 David, I came down here today 515 00:30:51,849 --> 00:30:54,417 because I wanna make sure that those babies get the milk they need. 516 00:30:55,244 --> 00:30:59,248 Well, they said on the news it was us refusing to make this happen, Jack. 517 00:31:00,336 --> 00:31:01,641 It's just-- 518 00:31:03,252 --> 00:31:05,994 these are our children they're asking us to give up. 519 00:31:06,124 --> 00:31:07,734 I understand, but... 520 00:31:07,865 --> 00:31:11,173 it might not be the worst thing to get the babies fed, 521 00:31:11,303 --> 00:31:15,046 and at the same time, get some of your other kids out of harm's way. 522 00:31:15,829 --> 00:31:18,963 -You know what I'm saying? -Yeah, I do. 523 00:31:19,137 --> 00:31:22,924 Good. Now, David, how much milk do you think you need? 524 00:31:25,056 --> 00:31:27,711 -Six gallons will do. -All right. 525 00:31:28,494 --> 00:31:30,583 Now, David, I'm gonna get ya the six gallons, 526 00:31:30,714 --> 00:31:34,022 but you gotta keep a level head in this while we try to resolve this thing. 527 00:31:34,805 --> 00:31:37,634 Thank you, Jack. You're a good man. 528 00:31:39,331 --> 00:31:42,291 Look, I just don't think we should make it so easy on 'em. 529 00:31:42,421 --> 00:31:44,336 Jesus. You think we made it easy on 'em? 530 00:31:44,467 --> 00:31:47,122 They agreed to send their kids out, for Christ's sake. 531 00:31:47,252 --> 00:31:50,125 Right now, the only card we have to play is creating goodwill. 532 00:31:50,299 --> 00:31:53,824 No, it's not. That's youronly card, Gary. 533 00:31:53,955 --> 00:31:55,304 [sighs] 534 00:31:56,131 --> 00:31:58,394 [Gary] Look, the people they're sending out won't talk. 535 00:31:58,524 --> 00:32:00,962 And we have no idea what's going on in there-- 536 00:32:01,092 --> 00:32:02,398 what they're planning to do. 537 00:32:02,528 --> 00:32:04,356 All right. What's your point, Noesner? 538 00:32:04,487 --> 00:32:07,620 If we send the milk in and bug it somehow... 539 00:32:07,751 --> 00:32:09,448 we'll have ears inside. 540 00:32:11,015 --> 00:32:15,498 That'll help me with negotiations, and Mitch, tactically. 541 00:32:25,987 --> 00:32:26,900 Do it. 542 00:32:50,054 --> 00:32:51,925 -Judy, you need-- -Shh. 543 00:32:52,056 --> 00:32:53,666 [whispers] Just got her to sleep. 544 00:32:53,797 --> 00:32:55,103 What's going on? 545 00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:57,801 -Are there more people going? -Yeah. 546 00:32:58,584 --> 00:33:00,325 And I want you and Mayanah to be two of 'em. 547 00:33:00,456 --> 00:33:02,545 No. I already told you, Steve. I can't go-- 548 00:33:02,675 --> 00:33:04,938 Well, this is not about you anymore. This is about Mayanah. 549 00:33:05,722 --> 00:33:08,725 You asked me to look out for her like she was my own. 550 00:33:08,855 --> 00:33:11,815 Well, that's what I'm doing. This is what that looks like. 551 00:33:11,945 --> 00:33:13,512 I don't trust the people out there, though, Steve. 552 00:33:13,686 --> 00:33:15,166 I don't trust them. 553 00:33:17,516 --> 00:33:18,474 I know. 554 00:33:19,475 --> 00:33:23,044 What about you? I can't leave you. 555 00:33:24,871 --> 00:33:26,047 I should stay. 556 00:33:31,530 --> 00:33:34,272 -It's the right thing to do. -[Judy sighs] 557 00:33:35,143 --> 00:33:38,668 Hey, Luke. I'm gonna miss that inquisitive mind. 558 00:33:38,798 --> 00:33:42,280 I want you to take care of your mama. All right, give me a hug. 559 00:33:43,412 --> 00:33:45,109 [David] Okay. 560 00:33:57,513 --> 00:33:58,688 All right. 561 00:33:59,732 --> 00:34:02,431 What are Judy and Mayanah doing in the hallway? 562 00:34:02,561 --> 00:34:03,910 'Cause they're leaving. 563 00:34:05,956 --> 00:34:07,958 Six gallons. Bugs are in the crate. 564 00:34:08,089 --> 00:34:10,003 Need a vest? 565 00:34:11,222 --> 00:34:13,137 They don't wanna shoot me. 566 00:34:14,573 --> 00:34:16,271 All right. 567 00:34:20,144 --> 00:34:22,103 [David grunts] Is that everyone? 568 00:34:25,976 --> 00:34:29,240 Um, Dave, I'd like you to send out... 569 00:34:30,067 --> 00:34:31,851 Judy and Mayanah. 570 00:34:33,723 --> 00:34:34,941 No. 571 00:34:35,725 --> 00:34:37,118 I can't do that. 572 00:34:39,555 --> 00:34:41,122 [faintly] Okay. 573 00:34:44,168 --> 00:34:46,431 You know, I've never asked you for anything. 574 00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:53,177 In all the years I've known you, everything I have done has been for you. 575 00:34:54,657 --> 00:34:59,052 Please, David. I'm asking you this one thing. 576 00:35:00,576 --> 00:35:02,447 And I'll talk to Judy. 577 00:35:02,578 --> 00:35:05,276 She can just tell them that-- that Mayanah is my daughter. 578 00:35:10,063 --> 00:35:11,630 But, Steve... 579 00:35:12,762 --> 00:35:15,286 she's not your daughter. 580 00:35:15,417 --> 00:35:17,158 She's mine. 581 00:35:23,425 --> 00:35:25,296 Right. 582 00:35:26,123 --> 00:35:27,255 [faintly] Right. 583 00:35:32,085 --> 00:35:33,304 I wanna stay with you. 584 00:35:33,435 --> 00:35:35,393 Oh, I wanna stay with you, too, baby. 585 00:35:35,524 --> 00:35:37,352 -But God wants me to stay here. -[child] Mommy...? 586 00:35:37,482 --> 00:35:41,182 And I need to keep you safe, okay? 587 00:35:50,321 --> 00:35:52,584 You're the greatest gift God ever gave me. 588 00:36:15,216 --> 00:36:16,695 [Steve] Let's go. 589 00:36:26,227 --> 00:36:29,404 Hey, guys. Right up here. 590 00:36:30,231 --> 00:36:32,058 -You got it? Come here. -[child whimpers] 591 00:36:32,189 --> 00:36:36,149 Come here, buddy. Come here. Come here. Let's go. Come on with me. 592 00:36:36,933 --> 00:36:39,414 How many guns you think they're pointing at us right now? 593 00:36:40,241 --> 00:36:42,982 -I bet a lot. -[Wayne chuckles] 594 00:37:00,173 --> 00:37:04,743 -Steve, hi. Wayne, Gary Noesner. -Hey. 595 00:37:05,614 --> 00:37:08,007 -[Gary] Hi. -Yeah, I've seen your video. 596 00:37:09,095 --> 00:37:11,489 But I'm sure I'm much better-looking in person, right? 597 00:37:11,620 --> 00:37:14,753 Let's just say that you got a pretty good face for radio. 598 00:37:14,927 --> 00:37:16,929 [chuckling] 599 00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:17,930 Could we just get this over with? 600 00:37:18,061 --> 00:37:19,715 Yeah, sure. I'm sorry. 601 00:37:19,845 --> 00:37:22,108 Steve, can I talk to you for a minute, just you and I? 602 00:37:22,935 --> 00:37:24,763 Yeah. It's okay. 603 00:37:30,726 --> 00:37:33,772 You need to know your people are in a lot more danger than you think. 604 00:37:36,427 --> 00:37:38,995 And in my experience, the longer these situations go on, 605 00:37:39,169 --> 00:37:41,345 the more erratic people's behavior gets. 606 00:37:42,346 --> 00:37:44,087 Yeah, we're seeing that on our side, too. 607 00:37:44,217 --> 00:37:45,741 Uh-huh. 608 00:37:47,830 --> 00:37:50,354 -Can I ask you something, Steve? -Yeah. 609 00:37:51,312 --> 00:37:53,096 Whose child is Mayanah? 610 00:37:56,708 --> 00:37:58,841 We've all made a lot of sacrifices to be here. 611 00:37:58,971 --> 00:38:02,845 -She's David's child, isn't she? -I made a choice. 612 00:38:02,975 --> 00:38:04,629 Judy made a choice. 613 00:38:07,415 --> 00:38:09,765 How is she, Judy? I heard she was shot. 614 00:38:11,332 --> 00:38:13,072 -She's fine. -She's fine? 615 00:38:13,203 --> 00:38:16,075 She has a bullet in her, and her baby needs milk, but she's fine? 616 00:38:16,206 --> 00:38:18,730 She's still in there. Why is that? 617 00:38:19,731 --> 00:38:21,167 Because we made a decision together-- 618 00:38:21,298 --> 00:38:23,387 No. No, I think 619 00:38:23,561 --> 00:38:25,433 David was the one who made that decision, not you. 620 00:38:25,563 --> 00:38:27,565 I think if it were up to you, 621 00:38:27,696 --> 00:38:30,655 Judy would be in that vehicle right now, with Mayanah. 622 00:38:33,092 --> 00:38:34,355 Am I wrong? 623 00:38:37,053 --> 00:38:38,881 Now, look, Steve, the thing you gotta realize 624 00:38:39,011 --> 00:38:42,319 is that you do have the power to make your own decisions. 625 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,411 Decisions for you, for Judy, for Mayanah, for everyone in there 626 00:38:47,585 --> 00:38:51,110 who is waiting for someone to find the courage to lead them out. 627 00:38:55,245 --> 00:38:56,942 You know, it's funny... I can't tell you 628 00:38:57,073 --> 00:38:59,075 how many times I wanted to leave this place. 629 00:38:59,902 --> 00:39:03,558 And all the fire ants and the dust storms... 630 00:39:04,689 --> 00:39:06,517 and David. 631 00:39:07,344 --> 00:39:10,391 Oh, you're right. David's horrible. 632 00:39:11,435 --> 00:39:13,611 Self-centered, rude. 633 00:39:14,612 --> 00:39:18,790 I wish that God would have chosen 634 00:39:18,921 --> 00:39:24,100 any other person on the earth to speak through instead of him. 635 00:39:25,362 --> 00:39:27,016 But you know what? 636 00:39:27,799 --> 00:39:29,410 Despite everything you're saying, 637 00:39:30,193 --> 00:39:33,631 no one's explained to me what we did to deserve all this. 638 00:39:35,894 --> 00:39:38,767 You know, you have the power to end this, too. 639 00:39:39,768 --> 00:39:41,422 How's that? 640 00:39:43,554 --> 00:39:45,295 You could just leave. 641 00:39:49,081 --> 00:39:50,779 We weren't bothering anybody. 642 00:39:59,222 --> 00:40:00,571 Yeah, I know. 643 00:40:04,619 --> 00:40:06,142 Thanks for the milk. 644 00:40:19,503 --> 00:40:20,765 [camera whirring] 645 00:40:21,723 --> 00:40:24,160 All right. We're rolling. 646 00:40:25,422 --> 00:40:26,597 [David] Okay. 647 00:40:28,251 --> 00:40:30,601 Say whatever you wanna say. 648 00:40:33,212 --> 00:40:34,692 Well... 649 00:40:37,521 --> 00:40:40,959 I just wanna say thanks a lot for killing my dad. 650 00:40:43,135 --> 00:40:45,050 My dad's name was Perry Jones. 651 00:40:46,182 --> 00:40:48,140 [Rachel] He was an unarmed man. 652 00:40:49,446 --> 00:40:50,795 And... 653 00:40:53,015 --> 00:40:55,800 you just shot him through the door, so... 654 00:40:58,324 --> 00:40:59,325 thanks a lot. 655 00:41:06,289 --> 00:41:09,379 -And thanks for the milk. -Yeah, thanks for the milk. 656 00:41:15,603 --> 00:41:18,170 -[sniffles] -[David sighs] 657 00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:21,739 [grunts] 658 00:41:25,482 --> 00:41:26,962 Wow. 659 00:41:27,745 --> 00:41:29,225 Is it bleeding again? 660 00:41:29,399 --> 00:41:32,707 -It's all over the pillow. -[David sighs] Well... 661 00:41:32,837 --> 00:41:35,710 it ain't nothing for a tough guy like me. 662 00:41:36,624 --> 00:41:38,147 [chuckles] 663 00:41:38,974 --> 00:41:42,978 A lot of beliefs people have may seem abnormal or strange to other people, 664 00:41:43,108 --> 00:41:45,458 but that doesn't mean it's not right, though. 665 00:41:46,503 --> 00:41:50,507 God speaks to me. I have a message to present. 666 00:41:51,290 --> 00:41:52,988 And you may not believe that. 667 00:41:54,076 --> 00:41:56,252 If you don't believe that, then believe this, 668 00:41:56,382 --> 00:41:59,037 irrespective of God speaking to me. 669 00:42:02,432 --> 00:42:04,129 See this here? 670 00:42:05,130 --> 00:42:09,395 This is my family. May not be like your family. 671 00:42:10,266 --> 00:42:12,268 But you come pointing guns 672 00:42:12,442 --> 00:42:15,793 in the direction of my wives and my kids? 673 00:42:16,620 --> 00:42:21,756 Damn it, I will meet you at the door any time. 674 00:42:24,454 --> 00:42:26,935 I'm sorry some of you guys got shot. 675 00:42:28,066 --> 00:42:29,720 But, hey... 676 00:42:32,070 --> 00:42:34,899 God'll have to sort that out, won't He? 677 00:42:36,597 --> 00:42:37,902 [clicks] 678 00:42:40,209 --> 00:42:42,254 You still think you can reason with this guy? 679 00:42:53,701 --> 00:42:55,180 What are you gonna do with that? 680 00:42:58,531 --> 00:43:02,274 Can't let this get out. Makes him look too normal. 681 00:43:06,888 --> 00:43:08,280 [sighs] 682 00:43:08,411 --> 00:43:10,456 -[voices overlapping] -[car horns honking] 683 00:43:12,589 --> 00:43:13,764 [sighs] 684 00:43:14,591 --> 00:43:16,506 [siren whoops] 685 00:43:17,725 --> 00:43:19,770 [voices yelling] 686 00:43:26,124 --> 00:43:28,083 Your boy's alive. 687 00:43:30,825 --> 00:43:33,958 Thank you. Thank you. 688 00:43:41,574 --> 00:43:42,967 Okay. 689 00:43:46,579 --> 00:43:52,673 -I wanted to thank you, Steve. -For what? 690 00:43:53,456 --> 00:43:55,980 Taking care of everyone when I was down. 691 00:43:57,852 --> 00:43:59,331 And for not leaving. 692 00:44:00,202 --> 00:44:02,813 I know you've been having your doubts. 693 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:04,902 I understand. 694 00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:10,125 Heck... I've had my own, too. 695 00:44:20,222 --> 00:44:23,007 -You need something? -Yeah. 696 00:44:24,792 --> 00:44:27,185 -Glass of milk would be nice. -[laughing] 697 00:44:29,622 --> 00:44:33,539 -No, that's for the kids, David. -I know it is, 698 00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:36,238 but I just escaped death by the grace of God, 699 00:44:36,368 --> 00:44:39,720 and to be honest with you, milk would do us good. 700 00:44:39,894 --> 00:44:41,243 No one'll know, Steve. 701 00:44:41,417 --> 00:44:42,897 [Steve] Glass of milk, I have to admit, 702 00:44:43,071 --> 00:44:44,246 would be pretty good right about now. 703 00:44:44,420 --> 00:44:46,422 [David] That's a yes. 704 00:44:47,249 --> 00:44:49,512 Gonna be the best glass of milk we've ever had. 705 00:44:57,781 --> 00:45:02,351 They don't give a shit about those kids. When are you gonna see it? 706 00:45:03,308 --> 00:45:04,832 I see it. 707 00:45:04,962 --> 00:45:07,704 The only thing people like this respond to is pressure. 708 00:45:07,835 --> 00:45:10,489 Does it feel like they have any pressure on them to you? 709 00:45:11,273 --> 00:45:14,842 -They sure don't. -We been here, what, eight days? 710 00:45:14,972 --> 00:45:18,236 The only thing we have to show for it is, what, 19 people? 711 00:45:19,281 --> 00:45:21,587 We keep up at this rate, we'll be here till Christmas. 712 00:45:22,588 --> 00:45:24,068 [sighs] 713 00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:25,896 You been letting Gary do his thing. 714 00:45:26,679 --> 00:45:29,117 How 'bout you let me do a little of mine? 715 00:45:31,293 --> 00:45:35,166 [Ron] And Bubba might say, "But ain't they messin' with young girls in there?" 716 00:45:35,297 --> 00:45:37,255 And I got this to say to Bubba. 717 00:45:38,648 --> 00:45:42,608 The ATF has no jurisdiction in matters of young girls. 718 00:45:42,739 --> 00:45:46,656 Or sex, or polygamy, or anything else they're talking about. 719 00:45:46,830 --> 00:45:49,006 It's none of their damn business. 720 00:45:49,137 --> 00:45:50,747 Their business... 721 00:45:50,878 --> 00:45:55,273 is alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Period. 722 00:45:56,492 --> 00:46:00,496 And yes, David Koresh did marry his wife when she was 14. 723 00:46:00,626 --> 00:46:02,367 And you might have feelings about that, 724 00:46:02,498 --> 00:46:04,413 just like I have feelings about that myself. 725 00:46:04,543 --> 00:46:07,503 I have a daughter. I find the idea reprehensible. 726 00:46:07,633 --> 00:46:10,071 [Ron] But according to Texas law, 727 00:46:10,201 --> 00:46:14,945 it is legal to marry a 14-year-old if her parents give consent. 728 00:46:15,728 --> 00:46:18,514 Which, again, I am not saying is right. 729 00:46:19,341 --> 00:46:21,169 But I am saying, if you have a problem with it, 730 00:46:21,343 --> 00:46:24,128 your problem is actually with Texas law. 731 00:46:25,042 --> 00:46:26,130 Not David Koresh. 732 00:46:26,261 --> 00:46:27,697 [engine stops] 733 00:46:28,524 --> 00:46:30,787 [reporter] The Branch Davidians have hung a sheet outside the window 734 00:46:30,918 --> 00:46:32,441 saying they want the press. 735 00:46:32,571 --> 00:46:35,183 Reporters have their own take on the sign. 736 00:46:35,357 --> 00:46:37,881 [all] God help us, weare the press! 737 00:46:38,012 --> 00:46:40,753 [reporter 2] ...siege against the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas. 738 00:46:40,884 --> 00:46:43,060 And raise similar questions about the-- 739 00:46:43,191 --> 00:46:45,933 I just don't understand why they won't let us talk to them. 740 00:46:46,063 --> 00:46:47,673 [reporter] Ma'am, if your son were here right-- 741 00:46:47,848 --> 00:46:49,284 No, no. Go back. 742 00:46:49,414 --> 00:46:51,329 [man] ...web surrounded this house... 743 00:46:51,460 --> 00:46:53,027 [reporter] What would you want to tell him? 744 00:46:53,157 --> 00:46:54,724 If you want to look in the camera and speak to him, 745 00:46:54,855 --> 00:46:55,725 what would you want to say to him? 746 00:46:55,856 --> 00:46:56,987 Do you know her? 747 00:46:57,814 --> 00:46:59,511 That's my mom. 748 00:46:59,642 --> 00:47:02,079 Dave, honey... 749 00:47:03,472 --> 00:47:07,389 I know the last time you were home, I didn't listen very well. 750 00:47:08,216 --> 00:47:11,654 I-- I got my issues with the Bible and stuff. 751 00:47:12,437 --> 00:47:14,918 And I know that you got a group in there 752 00:47:15,092 --> 00:47:18,095 that you really care about, and they're like family. 753 00:47:20,054 --> 00:47:23,622 ButI'm your family. And you're the only family I've got. 754 00:47:23,753 --> 00:47:27,844 [sniffles] And if anything ever happened to you, I don't know what I'd do. 755 00:47:27,975 --> 00:47:29,193 [sobs] 756 00:47:29,367 --> 00:47:31,369 Thank you. 757 00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:33,981 Dave, please? Come out. 758 00:47:34,111 --> 00:47:38,028 And I promise I'm gonna be a better listener, okay? 759 00:47:39,595 --> 00:47:42,032 I promise I'm gonna be a better mother. 760 00:47:44,121 --> 00:47:46,428 So, please, just come on out. 761 00:47:47,733 --> 00:47:49,997 [Balenda sniffles, sobs] Thank you. Thank you so much. 762 00:47:50,127 --> 00:47:51,172 [pops] 763 00:47:51,999 --> 00:47:55,045 -[David] Everyone stay calm. -[Rachel] What happened?