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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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This is
leann's and Paul's house.
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This is the dining room,
which is really nice.
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And then this here,
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the computer that Matthew
plays on all the time,
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spends most of his day on this
thing here playing his war games.
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Matt grew up on
the Internet, we didn't.
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Leann and I were raised...
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She can speak for herself,
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but we're similar personalities.
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We're the kids in class that
sit down,
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and follow the rules,
we color in the lines.
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We're part of a system,
that's who we are.
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Matt's generation was different,
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we raised him to think
critically.
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We raised him to be free.
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And there's my Matthew,
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look at how big he his.
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- Say hi, Matthew.
- Hello.
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Look at how big he is.
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My son was a pioneer
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in this activist group
anonymous.
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Matt ran a server and he had
connections with wikileaks.
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And someone leaked information
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and uploaded it on his server.
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That's, I believe,
one of the reasons
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why my son was tortured
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and why he sits in prison now
smeared with false charges.
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We didn't tell a single
soul what we were planning on doing.
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Uh, no one knew.
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We set everything we could
in order.
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We packed in the middle of
the night with lights out,
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just playing music, in case
they were listening to us.
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We got rid of phones, and then
we wrote on notebook paper
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and burned it and flushed
it down the toilet.
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We packed our car
with the few things
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that we were gonna take with us
under the cover of darkness,
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and left early in the morning.
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As we were approaching
the border,
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we bought large sunglasses that
would fit over our glasses,
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we bought hats that would
fit on over our heads
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so you couldn't do
facial recognition,
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and that's how we traveled
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the last 20 miles or so,
30 miles.
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We went to a small
border station at fort Francis
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and as we came through,
we declared to them
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that we were giving ourselves up
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and we were Americans
seeking asylum,
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based on the convention
against torture.
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- Good to see you.
- Good morning.
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Good morning, Matt.
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- Coming in? Okay.
- I am, thanks.
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I was surprised by
their profiles to begin with.
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These are highly educated
individuals that have all worked
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for the American military
at some point.
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And the fact that they chose
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to come here to seek
that safety,
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at first, I was wondering why
Canada, why not go overseas?
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But logistically, this was the first
safe place that they could enter.
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They came well documented, with
medical records from the United States,
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they had a large volume of court documents
as well that I was able to go through.
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And once you start piecing it
together,
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you see that something
serious is going on,
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and this is an important
story that needs to be heard,
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and these are also very
vulnerable people
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that need legal assistance
in Canada.
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This is a hearing into
the claims of Matthew dehart,
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Paul Joseph dehart and
leann Christine dehart.
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My name is Patrick roche and I
will be deciding your claims.
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So rather than have you all
stand
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'cause I know, sir, that you
are impeded with the chains,
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I'll just point to each
one of you and just answer.
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Do you solemnly affirm
that the evidence
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that you shall give
today shall be the truth,
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the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
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- Yes, sir.
- Yes, sir, I do.
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- Yes, sir.
- Okay.
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We do have an observer who
is not present in the room,
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but is in a separate section
and that's Mr. Adrian humphries
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from the national post
and he's observing
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by video conference as per the
order of may the 16th, 2014.
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I first came
across Matt dehart's name
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when he was the subject of
a federal court decision
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and I literally had
the highlighter
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and I'm whipping through this
and it's like
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anonymous, child pornography,
torture, us servicemen.
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And it was all these key flags
that I was highlighting
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that I knew that this would
be an interesting story
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but also suspected that it
would probably be a story
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that would require a little bit
of digging
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to ascertain the truth behind
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some of these broad statements and
allegations of what was going on.
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I didn't quite realize
at that point, how bizarre,
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how twisting and turning,
and complicated
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this story would really be.
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What connection did you have
to anonymous or wikileaks?
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I had been involved with anonymous since
2006, basically since its inception.
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In terms of wikileaks, I ran a server
called the shell on the Tor network,
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which is a hidden secret
computer network.
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It's used by free speech
activists.
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We had provided mirrors
for wikileaks
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so they could, in case their
site was taken down,
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they could host some of their
material on their front page.
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So this is a parallel type
of site?
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Well, imagine like a second
Internet but it's private.
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The only way you can get
to that site
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is if you're running
the software called Tor.
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So it's essentially a way to get
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into this secret parallel
Internet world?
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Yes. They call it the deep web
or the dark net.
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Hi, everyone, welcome to
the last class of the semester.
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Today we're gonna be
talking about anonymous
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in light of anonymity
and its history as well.
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So just to begin, you know, this morning
I decided to Google the dark web,
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and these are the images
that came up,
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of the kind of hooded hacker,
the green and black background.
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Studying anonymous
already felt like
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being part of an exciting
spy story.
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There was just a lot of mystery
and mystique and paranoia
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in the study of anonymous.
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But the Matt dehart case
just bumps that up
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to a whole different level.
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My first encounter with
Matt dehart was a package,
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a mail package that was sent to
my office.
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And it was a packet of
information compiled
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by Matt dehart
detailing his case.
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"Dear professor Coleman, I've followed
your coverage of the group anonymous
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and believe you are one of only
a handful
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of public leaders who
understand its culture.
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I'm hoping that your residence
in Canada
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will shield you from
us government pressure.
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"I believe my story will
interest you."
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He had been running
this secret server online,
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where someone had dropped off
information,
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a file, which he claimed had
information
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about a CIA operation that
the FBI was interested in,
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right, and they didn't want
these files out in the world.
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I mean, that alone
is a bombshell. Right?
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That's a bombshell if that's
the case.
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This is the wikileaks era.
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They became a really
important clearing house
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for taking information that
people either had access to
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or were stealing that people
felt was in the public interest.
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And so again, anonymous activists were
either acquiring that information,
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they were given
that information,
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they were maybe hosting
that information.
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And because a lot of that information
was acquired through illegal means,
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or was politically sensitive
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and the government didn't
want it out in the world,
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this was kind of the main reason that
government officials went after the hacktivists
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and the hackers and others
who were part of anonymous.
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Matt dehart
claims that in January 2010
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because he had been tipped off
by someone,
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he takes the server offline
and copies those documents
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that were supposedly put on
the server on USB drives.
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Whatever information
is on those drives
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is absolutely the reason
why all the problems
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for the deharts potentially
started in the United States
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and it seemed like the
government had a vested interest
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in getting those drives and
investigating what was on them.
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January 25th, 2010,
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that's the day that everything
changed.
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I was at my church office.
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I got a call from Matt.
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I could tell, there was
something in his voice.
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He said, "dad, you need to come
home now."
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I raced home, it was three
or four miles, and, um...
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Everything in our house
was tossed on the floor.
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There were rubber gloves
everywhere,
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drawers were emptied,
clothes were all over the place.
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They searched everywhere.
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They left a search warrant
and it said they were looking
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for evidence of child
pornography
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between Indiana and Memphis,
Tennessee.
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There's never been any suspicion
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or anything like that to think
that my son
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had anything to do with child pornography.
But you do ask.
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And I remember my husband
asking, "Matt, did you do this?"
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And I remember my son looking him in
the face with tears in his eyes saying,
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"no, dad. I didn't do this.
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I don't know what they're
talking about."
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Two and a half,
three hours in our house,
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they found nothing that they
could arrest him with on that day.
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So you tell me what that's
all about. I don't know.
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Something's fishy. The minute it
happened, we knew something was fishy.
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Something's fishy.
Something's going on.
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So you're just left with
questions,
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is it just because my son
was active on the Internet?
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Is it because we find out later
he was involved with anonymous?
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You know, historically the FBI
has used questionable methods,
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um, in order to surveil
activists.
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This was certainly the case in
the late '60s and early '70s,
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uh, with certain government
programs that were very secretive,
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where the FBI used
disinformation
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and dirty tactics to go after
activists.
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Suddenly, the United States
government has you in their crosshair.
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If I could describe the feeling
that I could see on him,
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it would be like looking at your
chest and seeing a laser there,
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00:14:12,912 --> 00:14:16,181
knowing at the other end of that laser...
I'm speaking metaphorically...
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00:14:16,214 --> 00:14:18,918
But at the other end
of that laser there is a gun
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that could shoot a bullet
into you.
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Which they certainly
had the power
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to do anything they wanted
to him.
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So he needed to drive,
and he drove
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and he ended up in Mexico.
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00:14:53,585 --> 00:14:58,190
Matt had two USB drives
that had evidence
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00:14:58,223 --> 00:15:00,760
of what was on his server,
the shell.
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00:15:11,436 --> 00:15:16,208
Matt dehart has claimed that he sent
the copies to someone in the UK.
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00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:20,980
If they do exist in any way,
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00:15:21,014 --> 00:15:22,949
they absolutely verify
his claims,
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00:15:22,982 --> 00:15:25,250
which he's made
very, very consistently.
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I don't know how
easy it would have been
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00:15:33,993 --> 00:15:37,596
for him to live down there
for any length of time.
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00:15:37,629 --> 00:15:41,067
And so we decided as a family,
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00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:44,436
we were going to fight this
together
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00:15:44,469 --> 00:15:49,441
and prove that, you know,
they had made a terrible mistake.
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Little did we know
that it doesn't matter.
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00:15:52,544 --> 00:15:54,346
Truth does not matter.
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00:15:55,347 --> 00:15:56,983
It doesn't matter.
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00:16:01,954 --> 00:16:07,192
My name is Brett kniss, I worked at the
Franklin Tennessee police department
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00:16:07,225 --> 00:16:10,797
from 1999 to 2012.
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00:16:10,830 --> 00:16:13,632
During that time,
I was a detective for eight years
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00:16:13,665 --> 00:16:16,668
and five of those years I was on
the FBI cyber crimes task force
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00:16:16,702 --> 00:16:20,505
with the Internet crimes
against children task force.
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00:16:20,539 --> 00:16:24,844
The beginning of the Matthew dehart
case was the victim's mother,
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who was a private
investigator at the time,
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00:16:27,013 --> 00:16:28,653
had made a report
to the police department
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00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,051
that her at the time
14-year-old son had been groomed
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and was solicited for
sexually explicit photos
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00:16:36,254 --> 00:16:40,093
and videos of himself
masturbating for the camera.
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00:16:43,261 --> 00:16:44,663
Floor nine.
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00:16:49,035 --> 00:16:51,971
I'm Carrie daughtrey.
I'm assistant United States attorney
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00:16:52,004 --> 00:16:53,873
here in Nashville, Tennessee.
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00:16:53,906 --> 00:16:56,675
I am the project safe
childhood coordinator,
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00:16:56,708 --> 00:17:00,179
which means that I prosecute
child exploitation cases.
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00:17:00,213 --> 00:17:02,982
And I've been doing it for
a little over 15 years.
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00:17:07,352 --> 00:17:09,354
What happened in this case
is that
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the defendant was on a very popular
game called world of warcraft
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and met these two
individuals who were minors.
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00:17:16,595 --> 00:17:19,065
And he began grooming them.
242
00:17:20,298 --> 00:17:24,336
He represented himself as
being the son of a mobster
243
00:17:24,369 --> 00:17:25,872
and represented himself as being
244
00:17:25,905 --> 00:17:29,075
in a prestigious school
in New Jersey.
245
00:17:29,108 --> 00:17:32,178
Um, so really coming across
to these boys
246
00:17:32,211 --> 00:17:35,181
as just being a really exciting,
247
00:17:35,214 --> 00:17:37,083
you know,
different kind of person,
248
00:17:37,116 --> 00:17:39,852
and he represented himself
as being a teenager as well.
249
00:17:43,089 --> 00:17:45,191
According to the second victim,
250
00:17:45,224 --> 00:17:49,294
Matthew dehart, under the
alias of Matthew dimarco,
251
00:17:49,327 --> 00:17:52,198
drove down to Tennessee to
meet with the second victim.
252
00:17:52,231 --> 00:17:54,734
He snuck out of the house
and went down the street.
253
00:17:54,767 --> 00:17:56,202
Matthew dehart picked him up,
254
00:17:56,235 --> 00:17:57,904
took him out for dinner,
255
00:17:57,937 --> 00:18:00,305
took him to a gun range
in another town,
256
00:18:00,338 --> 00:18:05,044
and gave him an adderal,
and provided him with a beer.
257
00:18:05,077 --> 00:18:08,647
It's a classic example of
grooming of the victims.
258
00:18:11,416 --> 00:18:13,585
At some point,
he brought into the mix,
259
00:18:13,618 --> 00:18:18,224
um, what he "identified" as two
teenage girls that were friends of his.
260
00:18:18,257 --> 00:18:23,262
Um, but, in fact, it was him
pretending to be these girls.
261
00:18:23,296 --> 00:18:26,966
And it's through these,
um, uh, online identities
262
00:18:26,999 --> 00:18:29,601
of the teenage girls that
he was able to convince
263
00:18:29,634 --> 00:18:33,072
the two boys to send him
images of themselves.
264
00:18:36,441 --> 00:18:38,911
So the victims and
their families were very scared
265
00:18:38,945 --> 00:18:40,947
when I started this
investigation.
266
00:18:40,980 --> 00:18:42,480
They knew that he had guns,
267
00:18:42,514 --> 00:18:45,084
and they were afraid that
he was gonna come down
268
00:18:45,117 --> 00:18:47,619
and potentially harm
the families
269
00:18:47,652 --> 00:18:49,956
and the victims themselves.
270
00:18:49,989 --> 00:18:52,490
It took a lot of convincing
to get them
271
00:18:52,524 --> 00:18:57,529
to believe that Matthew
dimarco, this mobster's son,
272
00:18:57,562 --> 00:19:00,099
was actually Matthew dehart,
the son of a minister,
273
00:19:00,132 --> 00:19:02,935
who lived with his parents
in Indiana.
274
00:19:04,502 --> 00:19:06,671
Don't I look wonderful?
275
00:19:06,705 --> 00:19:10,709
It's Matthew,
the handsome guy in his suit.
276
00:19:10,743 --> 00:19:12,912
Turn around, Matt,
you can be mister model.
277
00:19:14,512 --> 00:19:17,283
No, turn around normally.
278
00:19:19,517 --> 00:19:23,856
Let's sing a song of america
279
00:19:23,890 --> 00:19:29,128
of her shaded woodlands
and sun-washed shores
280
00:19:29,161 --> 00:19:34,800
of the glow of prayer
through the gloom of fall
281
00:19:34,834 --> 00:19:40,572
of Liberty standing
at her golden door
282
00:19:40,605 --> 00:19:43,009
we were patriots, all of us.
283
00:19:43,042 --> 00:19:46,879
We all believed in serving
the country.
284
00:19:46,913 --> 00:19:50,249
I joined the army
right out of high school
285
00:19:50,283 --> 00:19:52,318
and I was a linguist.
286
00:19:53,019 --> 00:19:54,987
Paul had joined the army
287
00:19:55,021 --> 00:19:57,722
and after he served a few years,
288
00:19:57,757 --> 00:20:03,262
went into the air force and
was commissioned as an officer.
289
00:20:03,296 --> 00:20:07,266
I started off as leann did
in the army as a linguist.
290
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:10,770
So we were trained to intercept
foreign communications.
291
00:20:10,803 --> 00:20:13,072
In my case, it was German,
292
00:20:13,105 --> 00:20:16,075
so we were trained to
listen to east German,
293
00:20:16,108 --> 00:20:18,576
primarily military
communications.
294
00:20:18,610 --> 00:20:20,880
When I got out of the army,
I went to college,
295
00:20:20,913 --> 00:20:24,549
and to help pay for that,
I went through air force RotC.
296
00:20:24,582 --> 00:20:26,886
And of course since I had
a linguist background,
297
00:20:26,919 --> 00:20:30,022
it made sense for me to go into
the same career field again.
298
00:20:30,056 --> 00:20:32,291
I already had
a security clearance before,
299
00:20:32,325 --> 00:20:33,893
it was easy to update that,
300
00:20:33,926 --> 00:20:37,229
and so I was assigned to
NSA at fort mead, Maryland.
301
00:20:39,799 --> 00:20:42,101
While we were there,
Matt was born,
302
00:20:42,134 --> 00:20:44,303
Walter read army medical center.
303
00:20:44,337 --> 00:20:46,471
And then with part of
my work center
304
00:20:46,504 --> 00:20:48,573
we transferred to Hawaii.
305
00:20:55,247 --> 00:20:59,118
When the Berlin wall came down
and the Soviet union fell apart,
306
00:20:59,151 --> 00:21:01,420
they started paring down
the forces
307
00:21:01,454 --> 00:21:03,422
and they offered an
early retirement option.
308
00:21:03,456 --> 00:21:05,958
And I still wanted to go into
ministry.
309
00:21:05,992 --> 00:21:09,328
And so when the opportunity
came to retire early,
310
00:21:09,362 --> 00:21:11,063
I retired and went to seminary
311
00:21:11,097 --> 00:21:13,766
and then started working
in ministry.
312
00:21:19,038 --> 00:21:21,573
I met Matt
through his dad, Paul.
313
00:21:21,606 --> 00:21:24,010
I attended the church
that he was preaching at.
314
00:21:25,845 --> 00:21:28,023
Matt, my little brother, and I,
we hit it off pretty good.
315
00:21:28,047 --> 00:21:31,083
We all got along,
we all had a nerdy sense of humor,
316
00:21:31,117 --> 00:21:33,419
video games, things like that.
317
00:21:33,452 --> 00:21:36,989
Threw around a few big brother
ideas every once in a while,
318
00:21:37,023 --> 00:21:40,625
but nothing past like tin foil
hat conspiracy type things,
319
00:21:40,658 --> 00:21:42,094
just silly stuff.
320
00:21:44,797 --> 00:21:49,168
Matt dehart is absolutely
best described through stories.
321
00:21:49,201 --> 00:21:51,137
And I guess the best story
322
00:21:51,170 --> 00:21:53,305
that really will help you
understand who he is was
323
00:21:53,339 --> 00:21:57,476
when he ran for student council
president, back in high school.
324
00:21:57,510 --> 00:22:00,678
He came to me and another friend
of ours and he enlisted our help.
325
00:22:00,712 --> 00:22:02,190
And I'm like, "oh, what
do you need help with?"
326
00:22:02,214 --> 00:22:05,518
And it was to be bodyguards.
Like secret service.
327
00:22:05,550 --> 00:22:07,685
And so we had to dress up
in black suits
328
00:22:07,719 --> 00:22:10,156
and he gave us like ear pieces
and wires
329
00:22:10,189 --> 00:22:12,792
and he'd make us walk him down
the hallway
330
00:22:12,825 --> 00:22:15,961
and I think we gave him
a codename, I'm pretty sure,
331
00:22:15,995 --> 00:22:17,997
and we'd talk into our wrists.
332
00:22:23,668 --> 00:22:26,704
He would walk through the hallways
like he owned the building,
333
00:22:26,739 --> 00:22:28,240
and you had hall monitors,
334
00:22:28,274 --> 00:22:30,409
teachers, sitting out there
and they would say,
335
00:22:30,443 --> 00:22:32,078
"let me see your pass."
336
00:22:32,111 --> 00:22:36,714
And Matthew, I mean,
in this very deep male voice,
337
00:22:36,749 --> 00:22:38,683
without a single smile
on his face,
338
00:22:38,716 --> 00:22:43,923
would just stop in his tracks
and turn to them and say,
339
00:22:43,956 --> 00:22:46,691
"you don't need to see a pass."
And he'd just keep walking.
340
00:22:53,598 --> 00:22:57,103
He wore a black trench coat
before all that stuff was there.
341
00:22:57,136 --> 00:23:00,605
His hair was big,
he had big afro-looking...
342
00:23:09,248 --> 00:23:12,485
Are you willing to stand up
to authority for a just cause?
343
00:23:14,787 --> 00:23:17,256
I was not a part of
his kaos computer club,
344
00:23:17,289 --> 00:23:20,860
but, yeah, this is how
he got people involved.
345
00:23:24,063 --> 00:23:26,441
There were times when we thought, "okay,
we're just gonna cut the computer off."
346
00:23:26,465 --> 00:23:29,368
But for him
that wouldn't have worked.
347
00:23:29,401 --> 00:23:32,204
For other kids, maybe you could
have pulled the plug and said,
348
00:23:32,238 --> 00:23:34,039
"no computers. Get down.
Study your books."
349
00:23:34,073 --> 00:23:37,143
And, you know,
"sit down and shut up."
350
00:23:37,176 --> 00:23:39,211
That would have never worked
for Matt.
351
00:23:46,085 --> 00:23:50,489
Losing the election resulted
in a dead fish being put
352
00:23:50,523 --> 00:23:53,559
in the ceiling of the
student council office.
353
00:23:53,592 --> 00:23:56,028
Matt wanted it to fester
in the summer heat.
354
00:23:57,530 --> 00:23:59,765
He claimed that it was a rigged
election
355
00:23:59,798 --> 00:24:04,236
and that was Matthew's revenge
for losing the election.
356
00:24:08,941 --> 00:24:10,276
He was clearly a smart guy.
357
00:24:10,309 --> 00:24:13,579
He very much knew technology
358
00:24:13,612 --> 00:24:19,485
and computers to a level far
exceeding my own knowledge.
359
00:24:19,518 --> 00:24:23,122
Um, and frankly he liked
showing that.
360
00:24:23,155 --> 00:24:25,925
He really showed that
he loved teaching me,
361
00:24:25,958 --> 00:24:28,160
he loved being the smart guy
in the room.
362
00:24:33,365 --> 00:24:35,501
If you watched the show,
leave it to beaver as a kid,
363
00:24:35,534 --> 00:24:38,971
there was a character on
there named Eddie haskell.
364
00:24:39,004 --> 00:24:41,340
Now Eddie wasn't all that smart,
365
00:24:41,373 --> 00:24:44,977
but he could charm any adult
366
00:24:45,010 --> 00:24:47,146
to get away with pretty much
anything.
367
00:24:47,179 --> 00:24:48,814
Hey, Wally, you get
that crazy flat tire
368
00:24:48,847 --> 00:24:51,150
back on the car before
your old man caught you?
369
00:24:51,183 --> 00:24:54,987
- Hello Eddie, what's new?
- Nothing, Mr. Cleaver.
370
00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:58,290
It's not important and I think
I hear my mother calling.
371
00:24:58,324 --> 00:25:04,230
He can talk himself
into any situation, good or bad.
372
00:25:04,263 --> 00:25:07,366
He can also talk himself
out of almost any situation.
373
00:25:10,736 --> 00:25:17,209
We lived in New Jersey
from 1996 to 2001.
374
00:25:17,243 --> 00:25:19,478
2001, we moved to Pennsylvania,
375
00:25:19,511 --> 00:25:22,147
so he ended up
homeschooling the last year.
376
00:25:23,882 --> 00:25:27,820
2003 to 2005, we lived in
elmira, New York,
377
00:25:27,853 --> 00:25:32,558
and then 2005, we moved to Indiana
because leann's mom was there.
378
00:25:32,591 --> 00:25:36,495
And while Matt was there,
he was doing different kinds of work.
379
00:25:39,198 --> 00:25:42,234
According to
Matt dehart's own timeline,
380
00:25:42,268 --> 00:25:45,938
he seems to have moved in tech
381
00:25:45,971 --> 00:25:48,774
and geek circles
for many, many years.
382
00:25:51,944 --> 00:25:54,079
One day
on the way home from church,
383
00:25:54,113 --> 00:25:58,517
my youngest said, "mom,
have you ever heard of anonymous?"
384
00:25:58,550 --> 00:26:03,455
I said, "it means that they don't
know who you are. It's anonymous."
385
00:26:03,489 --> 00:26:06,760
He said, "no, not that.
A group on the computer."
386
00:26:06,792 --> 00:26:09,628
He said, "Matt told me about it."
387
00:26:12,965 --> 00:26:16,770
I could absolutely imagine
him being a part of anonymous.
388
00:26:16,802 --> 00:26:20,639
But Matt was also
very conservative,
389
00:26:20,673 --> 00:26:23,642
just in the way he carried himself.
And I mean, like...
390
00:26:23,676 --> 00:26:29,448
He loved guns and, you know,
I mean, he was such a person
391
00:26:29,481 --> 00:26:33,787
that spanned the spectrum
of personalities.
392
00:26:36,255 --> 00:26:39,258
He wanted to do
something challenging
393
00:26:39,291 --> 00:26:43,228
and meaningful, I think,
he wanted to serve his country.
394
00:26:43,262 --> 00:26:48,500
He, um... both his parents,
Paul and I had,
395
00:26:48,534 --> 00:26:51,236
so he joined
the air national guard.
396
00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:58,477
I know that he got
a top secret security clearance,
397
00:26:58,510 --> 00:27:01,847
just as Paul did and just
as I did when we were in,
398
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,318
and that his interest
was in the drone program.
399
00:27:06,352 --> 00:27:09,955
But what he was doing
and what he was gonna do,
400
00:27:09,988 --> 00:27:13,859
that was something
we chose not to discuss.
401
00:27:13,892 --> 00:27:15,861
The details of what he did
or didn't do,
402
00:27:15,894 --> 00:27:18,197
obviously, I come from
a security background
403
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:21,367
and so I wouldn't ask him
questions about those things
404
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,136
and he didn't talk to me
about exactly what he did,
405
00:27:24,169 --> 00:27:27,272
but his afsc was all source
intelligence analyst.
406
00:27:29,041 --> 00:27:33,379
He was diagnosed with
depression,
407
00:27:33,412 --> 00:27:36,482
and it didn't stop him from
getting in.
408
00:27:36,515 --> 00:27:41,019
But after he received
his security clearance,
409
00:27:41,053 --> 00:27:45,357
which everything went fine,
it wasn't too long after that
410
00:27:45,391 --> 00:27:50,062
he was called in and told
that they would exit him
411
00:27:50,095 --> 00:27:55,735
with a honorable discharge because
they were afraid of the depression.
412
00:27:57,236 --> 00:27:59,171
He challenged this discharge,
413
00:27:59,204 --> 00:28:00,906
but eventually they ruled
against him,
414
00:28:00,939 --> 00:28:03,709
and then the raid
on our house on January 25th,
415
00:28:03,743 --> 00:28:09,515
and that's when the whole
building came tumbling down.
416
00:28:40,979 --> 00:28:46,853
He's curled up at the bottom of our
bed on the floor, shaking, twitching.
417
00:28:48,053 --> 00:28:50,622
I can't let that happen.
418
00:28:50,656 --> 00:28:54,460
I can't let that happen, something's gonna...
I don't know what's gonna happen to him,
419
00:28:54,493 --> 00:28:58,130
but that right there for the next
three or four days, he'll die.
420
00:28:58,163 --> 00:29:00,199
He'll kill himself or
something will happen to him.
421
00:29:00,232 --> 00:29:03,135
That's not gonna happen.
We've gotta do something.
422
00:29:03,168 --> 00:29:05,304
When he says, "here's what I
wanna do,"
423
00:29:05,337 --> 00:29:07,606
I'm saying,
"oh, you're right. Okay, fine."
424
00:29:16,982 --> 00:29:20,219
I drove him to
near the Russian embassy.
425
00:29:20,252 --> 00:29:23,655
There was two feet of snow
everywhere, we drove straight through.
426
00:29:23,689 --> 00:29:26,425
Matt slept most of the way.
427
00:29:26,458 --> 00:29:28,594
Thankfully, he finally got
some sleep.
428
00:29:33,332 --> 00:29:37,336
When did you take a
visit to the Russian embassy?
429
00:29:37,369 --> 00:29:39,705
The middle of February 2010.
430
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,345
Where did you go
and visit the Russian embassy?
431
00:29:46,378 --> 00:29:47,747
Washington, DC.
432
00:29:49,849 --> 00:29:53,652
Why did you go
and visit the Russian embassy?
433
00:29:53,685 --> 00:29:56,154
Because I believed the united
states was going to charge me
434
00:29:56,188 --> 00:30:00,459
with national security
offenses, um... eventually.
435
00:30:00,492 --> 00:30:06,231
And I was seeking asylum
for protection.
436
00:30:11,004 --> 00:30:14,506
No one who hasn't been through
this would ever understand this.
437
00:30:14,540 --> 00:30:17,476
They would say, you know,
"you're a retired air force officer."
438
00:30:17,509 --> 00:30:20,679
You're a pastor of a church.
You're just this average American person
439
00:30:20,712 --> 00:30:22,825
and now you're driving your
son to the Russian embassy.
440
00:30:22,849 --> 00:30:26,451
What's that all about?" Of course
the FBI would say. "You're a mole."
441
00:30:26,485 --> 00:30:28,620
But who are you gonna go to?
442
00:30:28,654 --> 00:30:33,191
Where can you go to protect yourself
from the United States of America?
443
00:30:33,225 --> 00:30:36,295
If the United States of America
has you in their crosshairs
444
00:30:36,328 --> 00:30:38,831
and you think it's for
something that you didn't do
445
00:30:38,865 --> 00:30:41,034
but they're gonna come
after you anyway,
446
00:30:41,066 --> 00:30:43,535
where do you go? North Korea?
447
00:30:45,103 --> 00:30:49,374
Why did you
believe in February 2010,
448
00:30:49,408 --> 00:30:52,377
that the United States was
going to eventually charge you
449
00:30:52,411 --> 00:30:54,914
with national security offenses?
450
00:30:54,948 --> 00:30:59,651
Because I was aware of what was
uploaded to the server in late 2009.
451
00:30:59,685 --> 00:31:03,188
And that search warrant was executed
at my parent's place in January.
452
00:31:03,221 --> 00:31:06,859
I believe that was their true
intent to find evidence of that.
453
00:31:06,893 --> 00:31:10,029
As this whole case evolved,
454
00:31:10,063 --> 00:31:13,733
you know, I did ask myself
from time to time,
455
00:31:13,766 --> 00:31:17,036
"is this just a matter of
people being paranoid,
456
00:31:17,070 --> 00:31:20,706
or is the system really out to
get them?"
457
00:31:32,885 --> 00:31:35,021
We said a prayer
before he got out of the car,
458
00:31:35,054 --> 00:31:37,623
and we exchanged "I love yous."
459
00:31:37,656 --> 00:31:41,526
And I thought that would be
the last time I'd see him.
460
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,731
If they granted him asylum.
461
00:31:44,764 --> 00:31:50,103
I drove off, cried all the way
back to wherever I was going,
462
00:31:51,804 --> 00:31:56,241
you know, saying I can't believe
this is what it's come to.
463
00:31:56,274 --> 00:31:57,810
It was in February of 2010
464
00:31:57,844 --> 00:32:00,145
that his father took him to DC
465
00:32:00,178 --> 00:32:02,247
and dropped him off near
two different embassies,
466
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,450
the Russian embassy
and the Venezuelan embassy,
467
00:32:05,484 --> 00:32:08,420
for him to go in and defect.
468
00:32:08,453 --> 00:32:13,893
Um, and I don't know what he did
when he got into those embassies,
469
00:32:13,926 --> 00:32:17,997
but I certainly can understand why
the FBI became interested in that.
470
00:32:21,134 --> 00:32:23,036
Did you give the Russians
any information?
471
00:32:24,269 --> 00:32:26,906
I told them a few things.
472
00:32:26,939 --> 00:32:28,751
What kinds of things
did you tell the Russians?
473
00:32:28,775 --> 00:32:33,478
I told them my unit
was a drone unit, a uav unit.
474
00:32:33,512 --> 00:32:38,650
I told them that I have
expertise in computer networking.
475
00:32:38,684 --> 00:32:41,620
I told them that most
of my friends do as well.
476
00:32:41,653 --> 00:32:45,590
Um, stuff like that.
477
00:32:45,624 --> 00:32:48,694
Almost every step
of this story is emerging
478
00:32:48,728 --> 00:32:51,296
from some secret, shadowy world.
479
00:32:51,329 --> 00:32:55,101
When it became even larger, and I
didn't know it at that point in time,
480
00:32:55,134 --> 00:32:59,371
but when it involved the Russian
embassy and the spy world...
481
00:32:59,404 --> 00:33:02,175
Um, again a very shadowy world.
482
00:33:02,207 --> 00:33:05,210
So secrecy, secrets and shadows
483
00:33:05,243 --> 00:33:07,679
were everywhere on this story.
484
00:33:07,713 --> 00:33:10,515
And so it was extraordinarily
hard as a journalist
485
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:16,455
to find documented, accurate,
confirmable information.
486
00:33:23,495 --> 00:33:28,801
I did get a call from Paul and
he said, you know, "everything's okay."
487
00:33:28,835 --> 00:33:31,536
It was short because we were
very careful
488
00:33:31,570 --> 00:33:33,873
about what we said
on our phones.
489
00:33:33,906 --> 00:33:36,809
And then, you know, you find out
later on
490
00:33:36,843 --> 00:33:41,848
that they have audio of him
and Matt talking in the car.
491
00:33:41,881 --> 00:33:47,519
They have pictures of Matt, you
know, at the Starbucks coffee shop.
492
00:33:47,552 --> 00:33:50,923
So they were being
surveilled the entire time.
493
00:33:53,126 --> 00:33:55,161
So they were
supposed to contact him
494
00:33:55,194 --> 00:33:57,163
and they didn't call him,
495
00:33:57,196 --> 00:33:59,397
so he assumed it was
a no answer.
496
00:34:04,569 --> 00:34:09,041
He originally was gonna take
a bus back.
497
00:34:09,075 --> 00:34:11,077
But he chose to rent a car.
498
00:34:11,110 --> 00:34:13,612
So he rented a car
from bwi airport,
499
00:34:13,645 --> 00:34:15,547
he was driving back
through the mountains
500
00:34:15,580 --> 00:34:18,416
of West Virginia
on interstate 64.
501
00:34:35,835 --> 00:34:40,873
He spun out in the
car and the car was totaled.
502
00:34:40,907 --> 00:34:44,442
What else is gonna happen? Can we add
anything else to the stress level?
503
00:34:44,476 --> 00:34:46,746
Is there another thing
that can happen?
504
00:34:46,779 --> 00:34:48,181
You know? But he survived.
505
00:34:52,985 --> 00:34:54,987
It is certainly one
of the most unusual cases
506
00:34:55,021 --> 00:34:56,823
that I have handled, um...
507
00:34:56,856 --> 00:35:01,260
And certainly I can say
that I've never seen
508
00:35:01,294 --> 00:35:03,562
a defendant or his family
go to the extremes
509
00:35:03,595 --> 00:35:06,698
to avoid prosecution
as happened in this case.
510
00:35:08,768 --> 00:35:10,736
We thought, "well,
if there's any problems,
511
00:35:10,770 --> 00:35:12,470
he won't get a passport."
512
00:35:12,504 --> 00:35:14,140
I mean that makes sense, right?
513
00:35:14,173 --> 00:35:15,842
So he got a passport.
514
00:35:15,875 --> 00:35:19,111
All right, so we applied to
this language school in Montreal
515
00:35:19,145 --> 00:35:21,948
in his name, you know,
everything up and up on the credit card.
516
00:35:21,981 --> 00:35:24,016
Anybody who wants to look
can find it.
517
00:35:24,050 --> 00:35:26,285
Go up to plattsburgh, New York,
518
00:35:26,319 --> 00:35:29,755
goes across the border,
no problems at all.
519
00:35:29,789 --> 00:35:32,758
What stands out in this case
to me
520
00:35:32,792 --> 00:35:36,295
is the United States
government's reaction
521
00:35:36,329 --> 00:35:41,000
between August 6th
and August 20th, 2010.
522
00:35:41,033 --> 00:35:44,337
On August 6, 2010, Matthew's up
in Canada,
523
00:35:44,369 --> 00:35:46,839
he's studying French,
524
00:35:46,873 --> 00:35:50,776
and his student visa
in Canada is about to expire.
525
00:35:50,810 --> 00:35:52,879
And in order to reset it,
526
00:35:52,912 --> 00:35:56,048
he needs to cross
into the United States
527
00:35:56,082 --> 00:35:58,683
and then go back into Canada.
528
00:35:58,717 --> 00:36:03,388
It was a Friday, and he was coming
across to get his visa stamped,
529
00:36:03,421 --> 00:36:07,026
and soon as he did that and
turned around and walk back over,
530
00:36:07,059 --> 00:36:10,229
he was supposed to Skype us
531
00:36:10,263 --> 00:36:13,799
and, you know, let us know that
everything went okay
532
00:36:13,833 --> 00:36:18,637
and we'd come up and see him
during the semester break.
533
00:36:18,670 --> 00:36:20,639
And we didn't hear from him.
534
00:36:20,672 --> 00:36:23,575
And we... you get that dark
heavy feeling
535
00:36:23,608 --> 00:36:26,812
and you know something's
terribly, terribly wrong.
536
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,416
You're detained
on August 6, 2010,
537
00:36:33,052 --> 00:36:35,720
and you're eventually told
at some point
538
00:36:35,755 --> 00:36:38,556
that very day
that the FBI's interest in you
539
00:36:38,590 --> 00:36:41,027
is in regards to
national security matters,
540
00:36:41,060 --> 00:36:42,328
- is that correct?
- Yes.
541
00:36:43,595 --> 00:36:46,098
I was brought into
a detention cell,
542
00:36:46,132 --> 00:36:48,100
held for less than an hour
543
00:36:48,134 --> 00:36:50,836
and then brought to a
medical examination room
544
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:52,504
where I was given an iv.
545
00:36:54,974 --> 00:36:58,543
I had refused it at first
and they just said,
546
00:36:58,576 --> 00:37:01,948
"well, you have to do this,
it's part of our procedure."
547
00:37:01,981 --> 00:37:05,117
Um, there was two FBI agents
working there,
548
00:37:05,151 --> 00:37:07,386
um, as well as I believe
a doctor.
549
00:37:07,420 --> 00:37:09,755
And were you told
what was being given to you?
550
00:37:09,789 --> 00:37:12,959
No, I wasn't. And I was
brought back to the detention cell.
551
00:37:12,992 --> 00:37:15,027
I said, "can I talk to
my lawyer now?"
552
00:37:15,061 --> 00:37:16,862
Because they were just staring
at me.
553
00:37:16,896 --> 00:37:20,366
They said, "no,
it's a national security case."
554
00:37:22,435 --> 00:37:27,940
It was only recently when one
of a number of documents was declassified
555
00:37:27,974 --> 00:37:31,777
that actually gave
total credence
556
00:37:31,811 --> 00:37:33,813
to that story,
it verified that story.
557
00:37:35,547 --> 00:37:39,118
He's explicitly
detained at the border
558
00:37:39,151 --> 00:37:42,121
because of an espionage
investigation.
559
00:37:42,154 --> 00:37:45,724
That's one of the few things
we know about this case.
560
00:37:47,659 --> 00:37:50,830
It wasn't that
we disbelieved Matt,
561
00:37:50,863 --> 00:37:53,899
but there's a level of belief,
562
00:37:53,933 --> 00:37:59,138
and then there's the level
of actual confirmation.
563
00:37:59,171 --> 00:38:03,075
There's a relief in that,
okay, yes, this is true,
564
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:06,812
but there's also a heartbreak
that says
565
00:38:06,846 --> 00:38:09,281
this really did happen
to my kid,
566
00:38:09,315 --> 00:38:12,151
this is what they did to him.
567
00:38:12,184 --> 00:38:15,121
Not long thereafter, I was
brought up to a conference room.
568
00:38:15,154 --> 00:38:17,256
It's a large conference table,
569
00:38:17,289 --> 00:38:19,959
one FBI agent's on the right,
the other's on the left,
570
00:38:19,992 --> 00:38:22,328
sort of at the corner
of the table.
571
00:38:22,361 --> 00:38:25,331
The FBI agent to my left
asks me,
572
00:38:25,364 --> 00:38:27,933
"do you know what this is
about?"
573
00:38:28,868 --> 00:38:31,170
- Okay, and?
- I said, "no, I don't."
574
00:38:31,203 --> 00:38:33,705
And then he said,
"how about deal?"
575
00:38:33,739 --> 00:38:37,777
Deal was an individual in
my air national guard unit.
576
00:38:37,810 --> 00:38:40,513
He was also in
my world of warcraft guild.
577
00:38:40,545 --> 00:38:43,215
What's your relationship
with them now?
578
00:38:47,053 --> 00:38:49,488
You know all this information...
579
00:38:49,522 --> 00:38:50,956
They expanded their questioning
580
00:38:50,990 --> 00:38:53,292
to ask about the visit
to the Russian embassy,
581
00:38:53,325 --> 00:38:55,361
what I spoke to the Russians
about.
582
00:38:55,394 --> 00:38:57,063
But they always came back
to deal.
583
00:38:57,096 --> 00:38:59,732
I don't know if you
know anything about computers...
584
00:38:59,765 --> 00:39:02,234
They thought deal
had leaked information,
585
00:39:02,268 --> 00:39:04,804
posted it to my server called
the shell,
586
00:39:04,837 --> 00:39:06,939
and then further leaked it
to wikileaks.
587
00:39:08,207 --> 00:39:11,377
And yes or no, were you aware
of what information
588
00:39:11,410 --> 00:39:12,878
they were speaking of?
589
00:39:12,912 --> 00:39:15,781
I believed I was.
590
00:39:15,815 --> 00:39:18,984
I had a copy of that on a flash
drive I brought to Canada with me.
591
00:39:20,453 --> 00:39:22,654
Matthew came
to the Canadian border
592
00:39:22,687 --> 00:39:29,929
with this magic pen drive where he
had a lot of his supporting evidence
593
00:39:29,962 --> 00:39:37,002
and naively gave it up to
Canada border services officers.
594
00:39:41,273 --> 00:39:45,578
That pen drive became this
little battle, um,
595
00:39:46,445 --> 00:39:48,280
'cause we never got it back,
596
00:39:48,314 --> 00:39:51,683
and I kept applying to have it
returned
597
00:39:51,716 --> 00:39:54,686
because there were files on it
that were gonna corroborate
598
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,623
some of, you know,
Matthew's allegations,
599
00:39:58,656 --> 00:40:01,726
and god knows where it is.
600
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,396
If it's not with cbsa,
I believe there's a possibility
601
00:40:04,430 --> 00:40:07,433
that it may have been returned
to the us government,
602
00:40:07,466 --> 00:40:09,401
but that's pure speculation
on my part.
603
00:40:09,435 --> 00:40:11,437
Has this information,
as far as you know,
604
00:40:11,470 --> 00:40:14,273
ever been exposed publicly?
605
00:40:14,306 --> 00:40:16,909
No, I believe it's part of
wikileaks insurance policy,
606
00:40:16,942 --> 00:40:19,912
they call it; Should their site
be shut down,
607
00:40:19,945 --> 00:40:22,948
they would leak a certain
quantity of information
608
00:40:22,982 --> 00:40:24,658
that would be damaging
to certain governments.
609
00:40:24,682 --> 00:40:26,152
Tell us the Russians,
Venezuelans,
610
00:40:26,185 --> 00:40:28,120
anybody could just do
this in the United States.
611
00:40:28,154 --> 00:40:31,157
I don't think so. I think only
people with specific capabilities
612
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:33,325
and specific intents
can do this.
613
00:40:33,359 --> 00:40:35,761
By the time
this interrogation happened,
614
00:40:35,794 --> 00:40:39,131
a lot of military secrets
had been given to wikileaks,
615
00:40:39,165 --> 00:40:42,635
most famously the video
collateral murder
616
00:40:42,667 --> 00:40:44,303
by Chelsea Manning,
617
00:40:44,336 --> 00:40:46,338
which showed a video
618
00:40:46,372 --> 00:40:52,111
of us military gunning down
journalists in Iraq, right?
619
00:40:52,144 --> 00:40:55,281
And so I could just only
imagine that the FBI
620
00:40:55,314 --> 00:40:59,618
was really desperately
trying to find evidence
621
00:40:59,652 --> 00:41:07,652
of people within the military possibly
giving over information to wikileaks.
622
00:41:08,127 --> 00:41:12,865
So basically, you're detained in regards
to national security allegations.
623
00:41:12,898 --> 00:41:15,801
How do we go from there
to you being indicted
624
00:41:15,834 --> 00:41:20,873
on two counts related to
child pornography allegations?
625
00:41:22,374 --> 00:41:25,110
We were aware that
the defendant wasn't in the us
626
00:41:25,144 --> 00:41:29,148
but got a call from the FBI
up in Maine
627
00:41:29,181 --> 00:41:33,285
who had seen that there was an
FBI investigation in Nashville
628
00:41:33,319 --> 00:41:35,020
involving this case,
629
00:41:35,054 --> 00:41:37,556
and let us know that he
had come across the border
630
00:41:37,590 --> 00:41:41,627
and wanted to know if we wanted
to proceed with any charges.
631
00:41:41,660 --> 00:41:44,863
They called down because they
had nothing to hold him on.
632
00:41:44,897 --> 00:41:49,401
Mind you, they had nothing
to hold him on.
633
00:41:49,435 --> 00:41:56,408
This moribund complaint
from parents in Tennessee
634
00:41:56,442 --> 00:42:00,246
was sort of dusted off
and opened up
635
00:42:00,279 --> 00:42:04,516
and then used as a blunt
instrument to investigate
636
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:07,820
what appears to be the true
interest and focus of the government
637
00:42:07,853 --> 00:42:10,856
and that's national security,
espionage.
638
00:42:12,558 --> 00:42:15,928
Up until that time,
I had just previously
639
00:42:15,961 --> 00:42:19,431
finished the majority
of the forensic analysis
640
00:42:19,465 --> 00:42:23,569
on the computer
that was seized, or computers
641
00:42:23,602 --> 00:42:26,438
that were seized
at Matthew dehart's residence.
642
00:42:26,472 --> 00:42:30,175
At that time, I was able to
have enough probable cause
643
00:42:30,209 --> 00:42:33,712
to have several charges
of him against...
644
00:42:33,747 --> 00:42:39,918
For the distribution, production,
and solicitation charges.
645
00:42:39,952 --> 00:42:42,855
So we didn't want to let him go.
646
00:42:42,888 --> 00:42:46,425
If they only had
eight hours to detain him,
647
00:42:46,458 --> 00:42:48,427
um, then he could have
crossed back into Canada
648
00:42:48,460 --> 00:42:50,362
or gone wherever
and disappeared.
649
00:42:50,396 --> 00:42:52,298
So at that time, I had
enough probable cause
650
00:42:52,331 --> 00:42:55,868
to submit, uh,
obtain a arrest warrant
651
00:42:55,901 --> 00:42:58,871
and he was detained on
my child pornography charges.
652
00:43:01,140 --> 00:43:02,808
He said,
"here, we have this now.
653
00:43:02,841 --> 00:43:05,110
You're gonna start telling us
about what we wanna know,
654
00:43:05,144 --> 00:43:06,712
otherwise you're gonna face
this."
655
00:43:06,746 --> 00:43:09,014
It said production of
child pornography on it.
656
00:43:09,048 --> 00:43:12,451
I said, "I have nothing
to do with that, this is bs."
657
00:43:12,484 --> 00:43:15,755
The FBI agent told me,
"I know that. It doesn't matter.
658
00:43:15,789 --> 00:43:17,723
You need to answer
our questions."
659
00:43:18,857 --> 00:43:21,393
At that time,
I was feeling more groggy,
660
00:43:21,427 --> 00:43:23,562
it was when I first thought
I was drugged.
661
00:43:23,595 --> 00:43:26,065
- Tell us, Matt.
- Answer his questions, Matt.
662
00:43:28,967 --> 00:43:31,236
What were you doing
at the Russian embassy?
663
00:43:31,270 --> 00:43:33,339
What's your relationship
with wikileaks?
664
00:43:35,708 --> 00:43:37,744
We were literally
on the verge of publishing
665
00:43:37,777 --> 00:43:39,854
when I'm saying, "no, we have
to put the breaks on this"
666
00:43:39,878 --> 00:43:44,784
because I've just learned
that the FBI documents
667
00:43:44,818 --> 00:43:47,953
on one of the times
he was interrogated alleged
668
00:43:47,986 --> 00:43:50,856
that he had contacted
the Russian embassy,
669
00:43:50,889 --> 00:43:52,826
"offered to sell them secrets."
670
00:43:52,858 --> 00:43:55,127
And that the Russian
embassy official told him
671
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,429
that we can't operate right now
within the United States,
672
00:43:57,463 --> 00:44:02,067
you have to move to Canada to contact
our spymaster at the embassy in Ottawa.
673
00:44:07,706 --> 00:44:10,844
Eventually what emerges
is this picture of Matt
674
00:44:10,876 --> 00:44:16,014
and some of his fellow air
national guardsmen conspiring
675
00:44:16,048 --> 00:44:18,717
to sell government secrets.
676
00:44:26,558 --> 00:44:30,696
According to the document, Matt told
the FBI of one member of his unit
677
00:44:30,730 --> 00:44:35,701
who could remotely access a
department of national defense portal
678
00:44:35,735 --> 00:44:38,738
and get some information
through that.
679
00:44:38,772 --> 00:44:43,008
And that Matt allegedly offered
to act as a bit of a middleman,
680
00:44:43,041 --> 00:44:46,311
that if his colleague
could get the information,
681
00:44:46,345 --> 00:44:48,547
then he would maybe find
a buyer for it.
682
00:45:09,301 --> 00:45:13,005
In the document, it seems like he's,
you know, selling out his friends,
683
00:45:13,038 --> 00:45:15,909
giving over their names
to the FBI,
684
00:45:15,941 --> 00:45:18,043
kind of snitching on them.
685
00:45:20,814 --> 00:45:23,582
When you pump
somebody full of drugs,
686
00:45:23,615 --> 00:45:26,118
you're gonna get all kinds
of stuff.
687
00:45:26,151 --> 00:45:29,421
You're gonna get them to say
things you want them to say.
688
00:45:29,455 --> 00:45:32,391
Of course we have no audio
recording of the interviews,
689
00:45:32,424 --> 00:45:35,194
so we don't know if Matt really
said this,
690
00:45:35,227 --> 00:45:38,363
and then if he did say this,
he also claimed
691
00:45:38,397 --> 00:45:43,535
that he had been forcibly
drugged by the FBI
692
00:45:43,569 --> 00:45:46,405
and tortured
and so that the information
693
00:45:46,438 --> 00:45:49,174
is not reliable for that reason
alone.
694
00:45:51,977 --> 00:45:55,247
I got a call that I
needed to go downstairs in intake
695
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,115
and process a person who came in
696
00:45:57,149 --> 00:45:59,985
who did not transport well.
697
00:46:00,018 --> 00:46:01,821
I remember the disheveled look.
698
00:46:01,855 --> 00:46:03,121
I remember the pale appearance,
699
00:46:03,155 --> 00:46:06,960
I remember the bizarre, um,
behavior,
700
00:46:06,992 --> 00:46:10,662
the emotions all over the board,
and the non-compliance.
701
00:46:10,696 --> 00:46:13,298
I'm just... was not
complying with the officers
702
00:46:13,332 --> 00:46:17,269
as far as like standing up,
sitting down, processing,
703
00:46:20,372 --> 00:46:24,409
I wasn't sure if he had taken
drugs or coming off of drugs,
704
00:46:24,443 --> 00:46:26,746
so to play it safe
I sent him out
705
00:46:26,779 --> 00:46:31,149
to the emergency room
just to get an evaluation done.
706
00:46:32,451 --> 00:46:34,586
He's interrogated so intensely
707
00:46:34,620 --> 00:46:38,958
he ends up in
the emergency room at 1:00 A.M.
708
00:46:38,992 --> 00:46:44,363
And he's evaluated
by the er doctors
709
00:46:44,396 --> 00:46:47,934
who say that he's
paranoid and delusional.
710
00:46:47,967 --> 00:46:52,271
I think they say at one point, this is in the
public record, that he had a psychotic break.
711
00:46:52,304 --> 00:46:55,107
Because he's telling them
that he's being interrogated
712
00:46:55,140 --> 00:46:59,044
by the FBI on matters of
national security and espionage,
713
00:46:59,077 --> 00:47:03,816
which is of course the classic
paranoid delusional thing
714
00:47:03,850 --> 00:47:05,384
that crazy people say.
715
00:47:05,417 --> 00:47:07,887
Except in this case
it's actually true.
716
00:47:10,656 --> 00:47:17,062
Looks like the thorazine
was started on August 9th.
717
00:47:19,264 --> 00:47:20,867
"Our clinical opinion,
718
00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:23,302
and the purpose of this letter
to you,
719
00:47:23,335 --> 00:47:25,972
is the concern about the impact
720
00:47:26,005 --> 00:47:29,876
of an old major tranquilizer referred to...
Called thorazine.
721
00:47:29,909 --> 00:47:33,345
That has never been indicated
for use with Matthew,
722
00:47:33,378 --> 00:47:36,916
based on our clinical
diagnostic impressions of him.
723
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:39,919
He has no history
whatsoever of a psychosis,
724
00:47:39,953 --> 00:47:42,387
therefore no clinical
justification
725
00:47:42,421 --> 00:47:45,825
for the use of any
antipsychotic medication,
726
00:47:45,858 --> 00:47:48,660
and especially thorazine
that has always
727
00:47:48,694 --> 00:47:51,096
had the potential for major
side effects.
728
00:47:51,129 --> 00:47:53,432
And this would especially be
significant
729
00:47:53,465 --> 00:47:57,070
"if this medication was
started early in his arrest."
730
00:47:57,102 --> 00:48:00,405
His doctor confirmed that
731
00:48:00,439 --> 00:48:02,942
that's what they used
years and years ago,
732
00:48:02,976 --> 00:48:05,845
they would use amphetamines
mixed with thorazine,
733
00:48:05,878 --> 00:48:09,782
which makes a "beautiful" truth
serum from what I understand.
734
00:48:18,590 --> 00:48:22,028
One of the most
surprising set of documents
735
00:48:22,061 --> 00:48:28,935
have to do with the consent
to assume online identity.
736
00:48:28,968 --> 00:48:31,436
And it's very clear,
in capital letters here it says,
737
00:48:31,470 --> 00:48:35,273
"consent to assume
online identity."
738
00:48:35,307 --> 00:48:41,246
And basically, what he is
allowing the FBI to do
739
00:48:41,279 --> 00:48:44,216
is to change the password
so he doesn't have access
740
00:48:44,249 --> 00:48:46,551
to these accounts anymore,
741
00:48:46,585 --> 00:48:50,923
uh, but the FBI has access
to these accounts
742
00:48:50,957 --> 00:48:53,392
and can assume his identity
743
00:48:53,425 --> 00:48:55,494
so that people who are
interacting
744
00:48:55,527 --> 00:48:59,297
with these accounts think that
they're interacting with Matt dehart.
745
00:48:59,331 --> 00:49:02,001
And what's incredible
about this is first of all,
746
00:49:02,035 --> 00:49:04,469
I just didn't even know
this was like an option,
747
00:49:04,503 --> 00:49:09,075
I guess I was like, "oh, I guess
this is something
748
00:49:09,108 --> 00:49:14,013
that the FBI would of course
want for investigations."
749
00:49:14,047 --> 00:49:17,249
And then it's just surprising
that he would give this consent.
750
00:49:19,152 --> 00:49:23,321
You spoke earlier of having been
tortured, while in detention,
751
00:49:23,355 --> 00:49:26,125
so would this have been
during the period
752
00:49:26,159 --> 00:49:29,695
- of August 6th to the 20th or 21st?
- Yes.
753
00:49:29,729 --> 00:49:32,965
So do you wanna
tell us what happened?
754
00:49:32,999 --> 00:49:36,435
I was put in what's called a dry cell.
755
00:49:38,303 --> 00:49:42,875
I... this was probably Monday,
756
00:49:42,909 --> 00:49:45,310
or it must have been Sunday,
I'm sorry.
757
00:49:47,914 --> 00:49:52,118
They were knocking on the door every 15
minutes or so so I wouldn't go to sleep.
758
00:49:52,151 --> 00:49:57,123
I had no bedding,
it was just a concrete slab.
759
00:49:57,156 --> 00:49:59,291
They took my suicide smock away
from me,
760
00:49:59,324 --> 00:50:02,461
so they left me in the cell
naked.
761
00:50:02,494 --> 00:50:05,998
And I had to go to the bathroom,
they wouldn't let me out.
762
00:50:06,032 --> 00:50:08,333
So I soiled myself.
763
00:50:08,366 --> 00:50:11,369
They threw bleach water all
over me and all over the cell.
764
00:50:12,704 --> 00:50:15,808
Um, I was freezing.
765
00:50:18,211 --> 00:50:20,512
And now, um, pretty much
the whole time
766
00:50:20,545 --> 00:50:22,749
the FBI is coming
every day to interrogate me
767
00:50:22,782 --> 00:50:26,718
for about five or six hours
a day, I would guess.
768
00:50:26,753 --> 00:50:31,224
Um, and then I collapsed
in the courtroom.
769
00:50:42,634 --> 00:50:46,105
The judge allowed his lawyer
to put the phone up to his mouth
770
00:50:46,139 --> 00:50:50,342
so that he could talk to me the first time
I heard him, and he sounded like a zombie,
771
00:50:50,375 --> 00:50:56,715
"dad,
they say I'm spying for the Russians."
772
00:50:56,749 --> 00:50:57,950
And that's it.
773
00:51:01,988 --> 00:51:03,421
Tuesday was the first day
774
00:51:03,455 --> 00:51:05,290
in the submission chair,
I think.
775
00:51:05,323 --> 00:51:08,127
It's a chair with leg
restraints and arm restraints.
776
00:51:09,327 --> 00:51:12,397
I was sat in there naked.
777
00:51:12,430 --> 00:51:17,270
It's such a strong reaction
from the FBI,
778
00:51:17,302 --> 00:51:21,140
from the department of justice,
you have to ask why they were freaking out.
779
00:51:21,174 --> 00:51:23,876
Because I think
it's indisputable
780
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:27,379
from the record that
they were freaking out.
781
00:51:27,412 --> 00:51:31,449
I had a canvas bag over
my head and I couldn't breathe.
782
00:51:31,483 --> 00:51:33,518
I was screaming
that I couldn't breathe.
783
00:51:35,955 --> 00:51:39,859
And I felt like drips
of cold water on my arm.
784
00:51:42,128 --> 00:51:43,562
And then I got shocked...
785
00:51:43,595 --> 00:51:45,131
like tased.
786
00:51:45,164 --> 00:51:47,465
And I'm screaming and spitting
and stuff.
787
00:51:49,367 --> 00:51:51,737
Why don't you take
a deep breath, it's okay.
788
00:51:53,039 --> 00:51:54,673
Just take a deep breath.
789
00:51:55,707 --> 00:51:58,476
Pause for a second.
790
00:51:58,510 --> 00:52:01,150
- Don't be in a rush to talk.
- Can you shut that off for a second?
791
00:52:03,316 --> 00:52:05,918
There is a mask
that they will use
792
00:52:05,952 --> 00:52:08,687
in a submission chair
if you do spit.
793
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:13,025
And it does look like
what beekeepers would wear,
794
00:52:13,059 --> 00:52:14,626
working in the fields.
795
00:52:14,659 --> 00:52:16,695
But there is a mask
that they will put over
796
00:52:16,729 --> 00:52:18,097
for the officers' safety.
797
00:52:44,991 --> 00:52:48,961
The fact that he was
tortured and all of this stuff,
798
00:52:48,995 --> 00:52:51,396
it was extremely overwhelming.
799
00:52:51,429 --> 00:52:53,366
And I have to be honest
with you.
800
00:52:53,398 --> 00:52:57,870
My first thought is,
"is my kid, is he out to lunch?"
801
00:52:59,171 --> 00:53:02,540
And then when I saw
what was on the drives
802
00:53:04,043 --> 00:53:08,180
and what we did to people,
803
00:53:08,214 --> 00:53:13,853
and what we still do
to people, it all made sense,
804
00:53:13,886 --> 00:53:17,555
why people would want
to cover up things.
805
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:21,426
And why they would destroy
people's reputation
806
00:53:21,459 --> 00:53:23,729
if not destroy them.
807
00:53:23,763 --> 00:53:25,831
It made all the sense
in the world.
808
00:53:32,204 --> 00:53:35,107
The only way to make the
facts in this case make sense
809
00:53:35,141 --> 00:53:38,710
is to entertain some kind
of wild conspiracy theory.
810
00:53:38,744 --> 00:53:42,248
Which is fucked up because I
am not a conspiracy theorist.
811
00:53:42,281 --> 00:53:45,751
I'm a former corporate
wall street lawyer.
812
00:53:45,785 --> 00:53:50,256
But the only way I could make the
government's reaction make sense
813
00:53:50,289 --> 00:53:51,791
is if I make some kind
of assumption
814
00:53:51,824 --> 00:53:54,293
that he's got his hands
on some crazy information
815
00:53:54,327 --> 00:53:59,098
that they just did not
want to get out there.
816
00:54:05,938 --> 00:54:09,442
The day before we
sought asylum in Canada,
817
00:54:09,474 --> 00:54:15,247
my son was concerned that he
would lose his life over this,
818
00:54:15,281 --> 00:54:18,650
and he wanted one other
person to be able to see
819
00:54:18,683 --> 00:54:21,486
what was on those files
that he had,
820
00:54:21,519 --> 00:54:25,724
and I'm the other person that
went through those files.
821
00:54:30,595 --> 00:54:31,897
That was it for me.
822
00:54:31,931 --> 00:54:34,000
I knew what this was all about.
823
00:54:34,033 --> 00:54:36,102
I knew what this was all about.
824
00:54:36,135 --> 00:54:39,205
And I thought, "we're dead,
we're dead."
825
00:54:43,309 --> 00:54:49,647
During the time in 2001
when there was the Anthrax scare
826
00:54:49,681 --> 00:54:52,650
and several people had died,
827
00:54:52,684 --> 00:54:56,355
it was blamed on other parties
outside of the country,
828
00:54:56,389 --> 00:55:00,092
and my son discovered that
it was indeed
829
00:55:00,126 --> 00:55:05,064
perpetrated by the CIA
and covered up by the FBI.
830
00:55:09,168 --> 00:55:12,471
Obviously, the information
that was downloaded
831
00:55:12,505 --> 00:55:15,540
or dropped on his server
was meant for wikileaks,
832
00:55:15,573 --> 00:55:20,112
it was a leak for the world
to know
833
00:55:20,146 --> 00:55:23,382
that the Anthrax attacks
were not
834
00:55:23,416 --> 00:55:27,853
by some middle eastern group
at the time.
835
00:55:27,887 --> 00:55:30,555
It was perpetrated by the CIA
836
00:55:30,588 --> 00:55:35,394
in order to drum up support
for bush for the Iraq war.
837
00:55:50,409 --> 00:55:54,313
I do feel like the information
838
00:55:54,346 --> 00:55:59,318
that was supposedly placed on
his servers
839
00:55:59,351 --> 00:56:02,687
is the big missing key
to all of this.
840
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:05,191
No one has seen these files,
right?
841
00:56:05,224 --> 00:56:07,993
If they do exist in any way,
842
00:56:08,027 --> 00:56:12,597
it would be essential to really
prove or disprove what Matt
843
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:15,234
and his family have been
saying all this time.
844
00:56:21,107 --> 00:56:22,908
Do I know where
his thumb drives are?
845
00:56:22,942 --> 00:56:24,777
The government's got one.
846
00:56:24,810 --> 00:56:27,947
But they haven't decrypted it
as far as I know.
847
00:56:27,980 --> 00:56:29,949
And I think there's some
in Europe.
848
00:56:29,982 --> 00:56:33,685
But do I know exactly
where they are?
849
00:56:33,718 --> 00:56:37,456
No. And if I did, I wouldn't
tell you.
850
00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:40,893
I'm not gonna be playing
20 questions on our sources.
851
00:56:40,926 --> 00:56:43,863
I'm sure you understand, Allen,
as a source protection organization,
852
00:56:43,896 --> 00:56:47,399
we're not going to be
inscribing circles around
853
00:56:47,433 --> 00:56:51,937
who our sources are,
how we communicate with them,
854
00:56:51,971 --> 00:56:56,976
any properties that might
be used to arrest them
855
00:56:57,009 --> 00:57:00,479
or criticize them
in some future process.
856
00:57:00,513 --> 00:57:02,882
- This call is from...
- Matthew dehart.
857
00:57:02,915 --> 00:57:05,217
An inmate at a federal prison.
858
00:57:06,018 --> 00:57:07,253
Hello?
859
00:57:07,286 --> 00:57:08,921
- Hey, buddy.
- Hey.
860
00:57:08,954 --> 00:57:10,132
Hey, what's up,
how are you guys doing?
861
00:57:10,156 --> 00:57:12,625
Good, how are you?
862
00:57:12,657 --> 00:57:15,294
I'm okay. I just got
a few letters done today.
863
00:57:15,327 --> 00:57:17,630
Otherwise Friday's are pretty
uneventful.
864
00:57:17,662 --> 00:57:20,733
Good, quiet is good.
865
00:57:20,766 --> 00:57:22,268
Oh, yeah, we used to
watch movies,
866
00:57:22,301 --> 00:57:23,445
but we're not allowed
to do that anymore.
867
00:57:23,469 --> 00:57:25,971
- Okay.
- Oh, that's too bad.
868
00:57:26,005 --> 00:57:28,407
Everything went okay today,
so we're good.
869
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,844
- With the doctors, yeah, it's all good.
- Okay.
870
00:57:31,877 --> 00:57:34,022
Excellent. Very good. All right
sounds good want to say a prayer?
871
00:57:34,046 --> 00:57:35,624
Yep. Lord, thank you for today
and everything given us,
872
00:57:35,648 --> 00:57:37,092
continue to watch over us,
protect us,
873
00:57:37,116 --> 00:57:38,484
keep us safe from all harm,
lord.
874
00:57:38,517 --> 00:57:40,252
Bring us back together
as soon as possible,
875
00:57:40,286 --> 00:57:42,488
- we pray these things in Jesus' name, amen.
- Amen.
876
00:57:42,521 --> 00:57:44,266
We ask that you just work
this whole situation out,
877
00:57:44,290 --> 00:57:46,458
have mercy, lord,
have mercy on people
878
00:57:46,492 --> 00:57:48,837
that are in rough situations,
help us spearhead it, dear lord,
879
00:57:48,861 --> 00:57:50,796
and just work
this whole situation out.
880
00:57:50,829 --> 00:57:51,840
Thank you
for all your blessings.
881
00:57:51,864 --> 00:57:53,666
- Amen.
- Amen, amen.
882
00:57:53,698 --> 00:57:55,100
So you guys are good?
883
00:57:55,134 --> 00:57:57,603
- We're good.
- We're good, buddy, we're good.
884
00:57:57,636 --> 00:58:00,448
Okay, sounds good. You guys have a great
evening and have a great day tomorrow.
885
00:58:00,472 --> 00:58:01,974
And, mom, I love you very much.
886
00:58:02,007 --> 00:58:04,977
I love you very much
too, buddy. God bless you.
887
00:58:14,086 --> 00:58:18,457
Sometimes it's very off-putting.
888
00:58:18,490 --> 00:58:24,063
We live in the woods because
we don't wanna be bothered,
889
00:58:24,096 --> 00:58:28,734
and we wanna...
We always thought, you know, stay out
890
00:58:28,767 --> 00:58:32,972
of the view of people
you don't want watching you.
891
00:58:33,005 --> 00:58:37,977
So sometimes when people just
kinda show up out of the blue,
892
00:58:38,010 --> 00:58:40,112
it is a little disconcerting,
893
00:58:42,114 --> 00:58:45,651
to say the least, anyway.
894
00:58:52,358 --> 00:58:57,329
I'd like to think it's just
people doing their job,
895
00:58:57,363 --> 00:59:02,935
but the last years
has taught me that
896
00:59:02,968 --> 00:59:05,271
never take anything for granted.
897
00:59:05,304 --> 00:59:09,041
Always be aware
of your surroundings.
898
00:59:09,074 --> 00:59:12,177
Because there are people
who are not
899
00:59:12,211 --> 00:59:13,779
who they're supposed to be.
900
00:59:22,054 --> 00:59:24,957
No FBI agent has
talked to me formally.
901
00:59:24,990 --> 00:59:29,228
They went to my
80-something-year-old mother,
902
00:59:29,261 --> 00:59:34,266
spent three hours,
and asked her how many languages I knew,
903
00:59:35,100 --> 00:59:36,935
what I did in the military,
904
00:59:36,969 --> 00:59:38,738
how often did I travel,
905
00:59:38,772 --> 00:59:41,140
and was I loyal to this country.
906
00:59:43,777 --> 00:59:45,745
What does that sound like
to you?
907
00:59:45,779 --> 00:59:49,281
It sounds like a blast
out of the past
908
00:59:49,315 --> 00:59:51,350
from somewhere else, doesn't it?
909
01:00:17,309 --> 01:00:18,977
It'll be interesting
if he comes back.
910
01:00:22,614 --> 01:00:24,983
That would be interesting.
911
01:00:25,017 --> 01:00:27,953
We can't say that we're not
being watched. I mean,
912
01:00:27,986 --> 01:00:33,625
we know from experience. So just as we're
standing here a helicopter flies over,
913
01:00:33,659 --> 01:00:36,595
a plane flies over,
a car pulls up at the end of the driveway
914
01:00:36,628 --> 01:00:38,864
which I've never seen before
and stops.
915
01:00:38,897 --> 01:00:41,276
But it's not that you have to have
a little guy in your backyard,
916
01:00:41,300 --> 01:00:42,769
they don't have to have
a monitor,
917
01:00:42,802 --> 01:00:44,336
just the fact that they know
918
01:00:44,370 --> 01:00:46,872
that you think you're
being monitored is enough,
919
01:00:46,905 --> 01:00:48,707
because that keeps everybody
in line.
920
01:01:03,422 --> 01:01:08,160
Good morning. We're here on united
states vs. Matthew Paul dehart.
921
01:01:08,193 --> 01:01:10,996
We have Carrie daughtrey
and lynne ingram
922
01:01:11,029 --> 01:01:15,234
for the government and Mark
scruggs for the defendant.
923
01:01:15,267 --> 01:01:19,171
I came on the case in approximately
February or march of 2012.
924
01:01:19,204 --> 01:01:23,475
Matthew had been in custody
since August of 2010.
925
01:01:23,509 --> 01:01:26,578
So I think the first focus
was to try
926
01:01:26,612 --> 01:01:29,381
to get him released
on some kind of bond
927
01:01:29,415 --> 01:01:31,650
or some kind of supervised
release
928
01:01:31,683 --> 01:01:33,719
so he that he could get out
of custody.
929
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:40,325
Detective kniss,
is it your position that victim one
930
01:01:40,359 --> 01:01:44,563
has ever actually met this man
personally one on one?
931
01:01:44,596 --> 01:01:48,100
From my interviews with victim
one, yes, he has met him.
932
01:01:48,133 --> 01:01:52,704
Okay. And yet victim one couldn't
pick him out of a lineup, correct?
933
01:01:52,739 --> 01:01:56,175
- That's correct.
- One of the victims, the second victim, was able
934
01:01:56,208 --> 01:01:58,710
to positively identify
Matthew dehart
935
01:01:58,745 --> 01:02:03,215
from a driver's license photo
immediately in a photo lineup.
936
01:02:03,248 --> 01:02:06,218
Um, the first victim
who had met Matthew dehart,
937
01:02:06,251 --> 01:02:09,288
probably a year and a half
earlier in the dark,
938
01:02:09,321 --> 01:02:10,456
wasn't able to identify him.
939
01:02:10,489 --> 01:02:12,892
One of the victims' phones,
940
01:02:12,926 --> 01:02:14,894
upon which this was supposed
to happen,
941
01:02:14,928 --> 01:02:18,230
was given back to the victim
without being analyzed.
942
01:02:18,263 --> 01:02:20,632
Cell phones at that time
were flip phones.
943
01:02:20,666 --> 01:02:22,701
They weren't the smart phones
like we had today,
944
01:02:22,735 --> 01:02:25,637
so they didn't retain a lot
of information and data.
945
01:02:25,671 --> 01:02:29,475
And that data, once they delete
it, was easily overwritten.
946
01:02:29,508 --> 01:02:31,310
So with the technology,
947
01:02:31,343 --> 01:02:33,312
the forensic technology we had
back then
948
01:02:33,345 --> 01:02:36,381
it was not able to recover
any evidence
949
01:02:36,415 --> 01:02:39,718
that we could use in this case.
950
01:02:39,752 --> 01:02:43,222
One single detective analyzed
the stuff
951
01:02:43,255 --> 01:02:46,325
that was on Matt's computer,
detective kniss,
952
01:02:46,358 --> 01:02:48,962
and as far as we know,
there's no indication
953
01:02:48,994 --> 01:02:50,930
that we ever saw,
that Matt ever saw,
954
01:02:50,964 --> 01:02:53,665
that anything was found
on his computers.
955
01:02:53,699 --> 01:02:58,170
I found images of the first
victim
956
01:02:58,203 --> 01:03:01,306
on Matthew dehart's computer
hard drives.
957
01:03:01,340 --> 01:03:04,309
We don't have a single
bit of evidence saying
958
01:03:04,343 --> 01:03:08,080
this picture was sent
with this time stamp
959
01:03:08,113 --> 01:03:10,616
to this place and was
received at this time.
960
01:03:10,649 --> 01:03:13,252
That does not exist
in Matt's case at all.
961
01:03:13,285 --> 01:03:16,488
I found still images of
the victim masturbating
962
01:03:16,522 --> 01:03:18,624
and was able to positively
identify
963
01:03:18,657 --> 01:03:23,796
it was the victim by showing
a sterilized image to the victim
964
01:03:23,830 --> 01:03:28,835
and he was able to identify
certain features in his bedroom
965
01:03:28,868 --> 01:03:30,536
through those images.
966
01:03:30,569 --> 01:03:35,607
We also found multiple days'
worth of chat fragments
967
01:03:35,641 --> 01:03:38,343
where Matthew dehart
was portraying himself
968
01:03:38,377 --> 01:03:42,347
as a teenage female to
solicit these victims
969
01:03:42,381 --> 01:03:44,550
for these images and videos.
970
01:03:47,820 --> 01:03:51,056
The government basically
typed out an alleged chat
971
01:03:51,089 --> 01:03:54,693
that Matt had online
with minor number one
972
01:03:54,726 --> 01:03:57,229
and minor number two
and so forth.
973
01:03:57,262 --> 01:04:01,700
But they were never reproduced in
the form they were allegedly found.
974
01:04:01,734 --> 01:04:05,972
We changed the screen names
to depict victim number one,
975
01:04:06,005 --> 01:04:11,844
or suspect, or Matthew dehart when we...
As part of the...
976
01:04:11,878 --> 01:04:15,380
Changed the screen name from his
screen name to Matthew dehart.
977
01:04:15,414 --> 01:04:17,050
That's the only alterations
we did.
978
01:04:17,082 --> 01:04:20,252
And we did that to protect
the identities of the victims.
979
01:04:20,285 --> 01:04:22,021
The overall arching theme for us
980
01:04:22,055 --> 01:04:23,689
is this makes absolutely
no sense.
981
01:04:23,722 --> 01:04:27,026
This doesn't follow standard
rules of criminal procedure.
982
01:04:27,060 --> 01:04:29,328
This doesn't follow
constitutional law.
983
01:04:29,361 --> 01:04:30,763
Something else is going on here.
984
01:04:30,797 --> 01:04:32,932
So you'd say this doesn't make
any sense.
985
01:04:32,966 --> 01:04:35,334
The only thing that
ever makes any sense is
986
01:04:35,367 --> 01:04:36,869
somebody was interested in him
987
01:04:36,903 --> 01:04:38,905
for national security purposes,
988
01:04:38,938 --> 01:04:42,240
and this is what he said
in court from the beginning.
989
01:04:42,274 --> 01:04:45,011
It was a ruse to get
a hold of his computers
990
01:04:45,044 --> 01:04:47,579
for national security stuff.
991
01:04:47,613 --> 01:04:52,819
The question became just why was he
being prosecuted on the pornography
992
01:04:52,852 --> 01:04:55,888
when it seemed to me
the focus of the investigation
993
01:04:55,922 --> 01:04:58,891
was his connections
or alleged connections
994
01:04:58,925 --> 01:05:02,795
with "wikilinks" and anonymous?
995
01:05:02,829 --> 01:05:04,931
He was making
an argument to his lawyers
996
01:05:04,964 --> 01:05:08,433
that all of these allegations
were trumped-up allegations
997
01:05:08,467 --> 01:05:10,870
as part of a national
security investigation.
998
01:05:10,903 --> 01:05:13,973
And behind closed doors,
the judge
999
01:05:14,007 --> 01:05:18,243
was allowed to see some
of the secret information
1000
01:05:18,276 --> 01:05:20,113
that the government had
in regards to it.
1001
01:05:20,145 --> 01:05:23,582
And she came out
and in open court
1002
01:05:23,615 --> 01:05:28,720
said that she understands why Matt
dehart would be far more concerned
1003
01:05:28,755 --> 01:05:30,757
about the national security
allegations
1004
01:05:30,790 --> 01:05:33,760
than he would be about any
of the child porn allegations
1005
01:05:33,793 --> 01:05:37,562
and that the weight of the
evidence was not as firm
1006
01:05:37,596 --> 01:05:38,998
as she thought it was.
1007
01:05:39,032 --> 01:05:41,299
And that's when...
Probably the moment
1008
01:05:41,333 --> 01:05:44,737
that I started to feel
much more comfortable in knowing
1009
01:05:44,771 --> 01:05:47,606
and believing and thinking
that there was something
1010
01:05:47,639 --> 01:05:51,276
far more to this
than mental health
1011
01:05:51,309 --> 01:05:54,680
or an immature kid trying
to avoid responsibility
1012
01:05:54,713 --> 01:05:57,315
for a horrible allegation,
1013
01:05:57,349 --> 01:05:59,317
that there was something
very real here,
1014
01:05:59,351 --> 01:06:01,921
there was something
potentially very wrong here,
1015
01:06:01,954 --> 01:06:06,191
and that this was a case that
the world needed to know about
1016
01:06:06,224 --> 01:06:09,661
and the world needed to have
answers to.
1017
01:06:10,662 --> 01:06:13,265
And the fact that
an impartial judge
1018
01:06:13,298 --> 01:06:18,270
who had more information
than the rest of us have
1019
01:06:18,303 --> 01:06:23,876
is skeptical
of the firmness of those charges
1020
01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:29,614
and, in fact,
allowed Matt dehart to be free on bail,
1021
01:06:29,648 --> 01:06:33,820
this is a really big deal to me.
1022
01:06:33,853 --> 01:06:35,822
Had she decided otherwise,
1023
01:06:35,855 --> 01:06:39,859
it would have put a different
kind of spin on the story.
1024
01:06:54,673 --> 01:06:57,242
Matthew is a
very intelligent person,
1025
01:06:57,275 --> 01:06:59,912
he's also, you know,
pretty hyper.
1026
01:06:59,946 --> 01:07:03,548
Uh, and he wanted
1027
01:07:03,582 --> 01:07:06,986
the direction of the defense
to go in one way
1028
01:07:07,019 --> 01:07:10,823
and I felt like it should go
in a different direction,
1029
01:07:10,857 --> 01:07:13,592
so we came to, I guess,
a parting of the ways
1030
01:07:13,625 --> 01:07:17,496
to the extent that I felt like
1031
01:07:17,529 --> 01:07:20,199
a particular strategy
should be pursued
1032
01:07:20,233 --> 01:07:26,873
and he didn't want to do that,
and so I withdrew from the case.
1033
01:07:26,906 --> 01:07:30,408
So Matt was let out on bond in may of 2012.
1034
01:07:30,442 --> 01:07:33,345
And Matt's given a lawyer
from a pool.
1035
01:07:33,378 --> 01:07:36,115
And we went down and met
with him.
1036
01:07:36,149 --> 01:07:37,760
It was in an office
in Nashville, Tennessee.
1037
01:07:37,784 --> 01:07:40,585
I remember as clear as day.
1038
01:07:40,619 --> 01:07:42,454
Very big office, big windows.
1039
01:07:42,487 --> 01:07:45,423
We walked in
and the first thing...
1040
01:07:45,457 --> 01:07:49,228
He was sitting at a table,
he was sitting back at a table like this.
1041
01:07:49,262 --> 01:07:54,967
He had a couple of assistants,
his other colleague was here,
1042
01:07:55,001 --> 01:08:00,372
maybe there were two people they later
introduced as private investigators.
1043
01:08:00,405 --> 01:08:05,278
And he said,
first thing he said was,
1044
01:08:05,310 --> 01:08:08,281
"it's very unusual for
someone who's 26 years old
1045
01:08:08,313 --> 01:08:10,817
to have his parents with him."
Um...
1046
01:08:10,850 --> 01:08:14,153
"You can stay at this meeting,
but from now on you're not welcome
1047
01:08:14,187 --> 01:08:15,788
in our meetings with your son."
1048
01:08:18,024 --> 01:08:21,794
What I recall
as being the boundary,
1049
01:08:21,828 --> 01:08:28,935
the point where we, my partner
and I, my law partner and I,
1050
01:08:28,968 --> 01:08:33,172
decided that this was
an unusual circumstance
1051
01:08:33,206 --> 01:08:37,176
and that we had to exclude
the parents
1052
01:08:37,210 --> 01:08:41,147
from our client relationship
actually occurred
1053
01:08:41,180 --> 01:08:46,118
in the room I'm in now,
a conference room in our office.
1054
01:08:46,152 --> 01:08:51,489
And my memory is Matthew
and his parents were there,
1055
01:08:51,523 --> 01:08:53,759
my law partner was there,
1056
01:08:53,793 --> 01:08:56,695
and I believe our paralegal
was there.
1057
01:08:56,728 --> 01:09:02,367
And at this point, I had
begun to be concerned
1058
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:06,471
about Paul and leann dehart
1059
01:09:06,504 --> 01:09:11,710
and about their understanding
of their son's circumstance
1060
01:09:11,744 --> 01:09:16,749
and particularly about their
control over his decisions.
1061
01:09:18,251 --> 01:09:23,990
And Paul dehart had begun
to articulate
1062
01:09:24,023 --> 01:09:30,796
and advance an idea that
the federal government
1063
01:09:30,830 --> 01:09:37,737
was listening to our
conversations.
1064
01:09:37,770 --> 01:09:41,473
And he pointed to a window
in this office
1065
01:09:41,506 --> 01:09:46,478
and asked if we had seen
the window move, vibrate.
1066
01:09:46,511 --> 01:09:53,819
And he asserted that he
had seen the window move,
1067
01:09:53,853 --> 01:09:55,988
and that meant that
the government
1068
01:09:56,022 --> 01:09:58,324
was listening to us
at that moment.
1069
01:10:01,794 --> 01:10:03,362
It wasn't long after that
1070
01:10:03,396 --> 01:10:05,998
when we reached the conclusion
1071
01:10:06,032 --> 01:10:08,834
that it was in Matthew's
best interest
1072
01:10:08,868 --> 01:10:13,839
to undergo a full
psychological evaluation.
1073
01:10:13,873 --> 01:10:17,276
And then he told his parents.
1074
01:10:17,310 --> 01:10:20,413
When a judge and a doctor says
1075
01:10:20,445 --> 01:10:22,681
that someone is mentally
incompetent,
1076
01:10:22,714 --> 01:10:25,751
they can put you away forever
in prison
1077
01:10:25,785 --> 01:10:28,955
as mentally incompetent,
and they threatened Matt with that
1078
01:10:28,988 --> 01:10:31,190
in order to get him to plea.
1079
01:10:31,223 --> 01:10:37,797
One day, Paul said,
"I can't let this happen to my son."
1080
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:42,234
He had just seen what had
happened to Aaron swartz,
1081
01:10:42,268 --> 01:10:45,438
and he said, "I don't wanna
come home,
1082
01:10:46,772 --> 01:10:50,575
and find that that's
happened to my son too."
1083
01:10:50,608 --> 01:10:52,577
A co-founder of the social news
1084
01:10:52,610 --> 01:10:55,915
and entertainment website
Reddit has been found dead.
1085
01:10:55,948 --> 01:10:58,650
Police say 26-year-old
Aaron swartz
1086
01:10:58,683 --> 01:11:01,020
killed himself yesterday
in his Brooklyn apartment.
1087
01:11:01,053 --> 01:11:06,392
Swartz was facing a federal trial on computer
fraud charges; He had plead not guilty.
1088
01:11:06,425 --> 01:11:10,463
My one thought is, "I need
to protect my son's life."
1089
01:11:10,495 --> 01:11:12,465
That's how I felt about it.
1090
01:11:12,497 --> 01:11:14,900
I can't describe it
any other way.
1091
01:11:14,934 --> 01:11:19,138
My son is in danger
and I am in operation mode.
1092
01:11:19,171 --> 01:11:23,342
And I'm gonna protect him
and unfortunately,
1093
01:11:23,376 --> 01:11:25,643
it's protecting him
from our own government,
1094
01:11:25,677 --> 01:11:28,414
the government that we
swore to support and defend.
1095
01:11:43,829 --> 01:11:47,500
He cut off his ankle
monitor and threw it in the weeds
1096
01:11:47,532 --> 01:11:49,802
and went to Canada
the second time.
1097
01:11:55,841 --> 01:11:58,277
That morning,
we were scheduled to be in court.
1098
01:11:59,412 --> 01:12:03,349
When I woke up,
I had a voicemail,
1099
01:12:03,382 --> 01:12:06,651
I believe,
actually from Paul dehart,
1100
01:12:06,684 --> 01:12:08,954
that was in the middle
of the night,
1101
01:12:08,988 --> 01:12:13,392
saying that he and his son
and his wife were in Canada
1102
01:12:13,426 --> 01:12:15,660
and they weren't coming
to court.
1103
01:12:15,693 --> 01:12:20,166
And we informed the court
that we believed
1104
01:12:20,199 --> 01:12:25,204
that Paul dehart was
unstable and dangerous.
1105
01:12:26,739 --> 01:12:31,043
Paul, with the active
support of his wife leann,
1106
01:12:31,077 --> 01:12:34,513
controlled their son,
their adult son,
1107
01:12:34,547 --> 01:12:36,949
and ultimately took him
to Canada.
1108
01:12:38,951 --> 01:12:41,353
By the time I met Matt
in person,
1109
01:12:41,387 --> 01:12:43,489
he had been released on bail.
1110
01:12:43,522 --> 01:12:47,659
Probably on the tightest
bail condition restrictions
1111
01:12:47,692 --> 01:12:49,661
that Canada's immigration
refugee board
1112
01:12:49,694 --> 01:12:51,363
had probably ever issued.
1113
01:12:51,397 --> 01:12:54,599
Um, he could not leave
the very small apartment
1114
01:12:54,632 --> 01:12:56,735
that he shared with his parents.
1115
01:12:56,769 --> 01:12:58,771
He had a GPS monitoring
bracelet,
1116
01:12:58,804 --> 01:13:00,605
he had to check in every week.
1117
01:13:00,638 --> 01:13:03,375
It was extremely minor
interactions
1118
01:13:03,409 --> 01:13:05,610
he could have
with the outside world.
1119
01:13:05,643 --> 01:13:07,612
Matt sent his parents out
1120
01:13:07,645 --> 01:13:10,516
so we could have a one-on-one
private conversation.
1121
01:13:10,549 --> 01:13:13,953
And there in his bedroom
he started to tell me
1122
01:13:13,986 --> 01:13:17,389
the first draft of his version
of events
1123
01:13:17,423 --> 01:13:18,858
of what he went through.
1124
01:13:18,891 --> 01:13:21,160
And we spoke for hours.
1125
01:13:23,796 --> 01:13:28,033
I was very cognizant of the fact
that he had a very firm grip
1126
01:13:28,067 --> 01:13:31,203
on how he's presented
to the world.
1127
01:13:31,237 --> 01:13:32,938
Like, for instance,
I had a photograph
1128
01:13:32,972 --> 01:13:35,207
of him provided to me
from the us authorities
1129
01:13:35,241 --> 01:13:38,544
and it was his mug shot
in his orange prison uniform.
1130
01:13:38,577 --> 01:13:40,122
Clearly, it looked like he had
been crying,
1131
01:13:40,146 --> 01:13:41,914
his eyes were all red
and watery,
1132
01:13:41,947 --> 01:13:46,986
and he didn't want us to use
that mugshot
1133
01:13:47,019 --> 01:13:49,088
and asked through his lawyers
to provide us
1134
01:13:49,121 --> 01:13:51,090
with an updated photograph
of him.
1135
01:13:51,123 --> 01:13:54,493
And of course it's him smiling,
friendly,
1136
01:13:54,527 --> 01:13:56,762
and he was even wearing
a hockey t-shirt,
1137
01:13:56,795 --> 01:13:58,631
you know, as like a message
to Canadians,
1138
01:13:58,663 --> 01:14:00,766
"look at me, I like hockey,
1139
01:14:00,799 --> 01:14:03,969
I'm not a threat to your country.
I should be welcome here."
1140
01:14:04,003 --> 01:14:08,507
And as a journalist who's
being impartial to the facts,
1141
01:14:08,541 --> 01:14:11,777
I was aware of the spin
that he was giving me,
1142
01:14:11,810 --> 01:14:14,813
as well as the spin
and the reluctance
1143
01:14:14,847 --> 01:14:16,916
that the various governments
1144
01:14:16,949 --> 01:14:19,084
and agencies
were also giving me.
1145
01:14:31,696 --> 01:14:33,832
It was a multi-part story.
1146
01:14:33,866 --> 01:14:36,368
It was an incredibly important
piece,
1147
01:14:36,402 --> 01:14:42,541
to kind of confirm that, you
know, the more important case here
1148
01:14:42,575 --> 01:14:45,110
is the espionage case.
1149
01:14:45,144 --> 01:14:48,713
And it was through the
reporting of Adrian Humphreys
1150
01:14:48,747 --> 01:14:52,017
that we started to see that
picture a little bit more clearly.
1151
01:14:54,719 --> 01:14:56,721
And more so
that other journalists started
1152
01:14:56,755 --> 01:14:58,290
to follow the case.
1153
01:15:13,372 --> 01:15:17,309
Wikileaks describes him
as an alleged wikileaks middle man,
1154
01:15:17,343 --> 01:15:19,578
but when he found
that secret document,
1155
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:23,415
he didn't publish it,
he didn't release it,
1156
01:15:23,449 --> 01:15:26,418
and to this day, he's not
allowed me to read it,
1157
01:15:26,452 --> 01:15:27,920
or others to read it.
1158
01:15:27,953 --> 01:15:30,923
So at this stage
of his trajectory,
1159
01:15:30,956 --> 01:15:33,759
I'm a little uncomfortable
saying he's a whistleblower,
1160
01:15:33,792 --> 01:15:37,229
um, other than the fact that he's
certainly trying to blow the whistle
1161
01:15:37,263 --> 01:15:39,198
on the way
the us government treated him.
1162
01:15:44,603 --> 01:15:47,706
There was,
I think, about 15 months
1163
01:15:47,741 --> 01:15:51,210
of seeking asylum in Canada,
1164
01:15:51,243 --> 01:15:56,682
and the parents
were very, very active
1165
01:15:56,715 --> 01:16:01,553
in looking for support wherever
they could find support
1166
01:16:01,587 --> 01:16:04,023
for the idea that Matthew
1167
01:16:04,056 --> 01:16:07,793
was a wikileaks-type
whistleblower
1168
01:16:07,826 --> 01:16:11,463
who had been unfairly
accused by the United States.
1169
01:16:11,497 --> 01:16:14,433
And one supporter they found
was a lawyer in Brooklyn.
1170
01:16:14,466 --> 01:16:18,937
Matt, when he came up here,
was free and out on bond,
1171
01:16:18,971 --> 01:16:24,778
but because of a kind of
ludicrous technicality,
1172
01:16:24,810 --> 01:16:29,114
Matt dehart is now in a maximum
security prison in Canada.
1173
01:16:29,148 --> 01:16:32,618
They actually had their
hands clamped on his,
1174
01:16:32,651 --> 01:16:35,554
and I said, "you cannot
do that, he has PTSD."
1175
01:16:35,587 --> 01:16:37,623
Can I ask you where he got that?
1176
01:16:37,656 --> 01:16:41,427
Yeah, from being tortured,
that's where he got PTSD.
1177
01:16:41,460 --> 01:16:44,731
- And who tortured him?
- The FBI tortured him.
1178
01:16:46,165 --> 01:16:48,934
Tor ekeland was in the videos,
1179
01:16:48,967 --> 01:16:51,738
joined in the promotion,
1180
01:16:51,771 --> 01:16:54,808
and people came
to their support.
1181
01:17:00,312 --> 01:17:03,949
The courage foundation
supports whistleblowers,
1182
01:17:03,982 --> 01:17:06,251
truthtellers, journalists,
1183
01:17:06,285 --> 01:17:11,123
anyone with courage
to stand up for the truth.
1184
01:17:11,156 --> 01:17:13,592
One of the first people
1185
01:17:13,625 --> 01:17:19,098
who were probably, um,
beneficiaries
1186
01:17:19,131 --> 01:17:22,501
of the courage foundation
would have been Chelsea Manning
1187
01:17:22,534 --> 01:17:24,370
and Edward snowden.
1188
01:17:24,403 --> 01:17:28,974
And along the way over the
years, other people were added
1189
01:17:29,007 --> 01:17:31,877
and supported and became
beneficiaries
1190
01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:37,716
and my son was selected
as one of those beneficiaries.
1191
01:17:47,025 --> 01:17:48,527
It certainly was coincidental
1192
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,028
that his story was evolving
1193
01:17:50,062 --> 01:17:52,564
as the Manning case
and the snowden case,
1194
01:17:52,598 --> 01:17:54,166
as they came out into the media.
1195
01:17:54,199 --> 01:17:59,138
It did seem like he was
sort of riding on the tails
1196
01:17:59,171 --> 01:18:03,409
of that kind of investigation
that was going on.
1197
01:18:03,442 --> 01:18:06,412
By late 2009,
someone had uploaded a file to the shell,
1198
01:18:06,445 --> 01:18:10,015
which is a server which I
operated the front end of.
1199
01:18:10,048 --> 01:18:11,917
Matthew dehart wants
to portray himself
1200
01:18:11,950 --> 01:18:15,387
as this whistleblower to make
him appear to be the victim.
1201
01:18:15,421 --> 01:18:18,825
I consider myself to be
an information freedom activist
1202
01:18:18,858 --> 01:18:21,727
and a political prisoner.
1203
01:18:21,761 --> 01:18:25,197
He can say what he wants to
to get people to follow him,
1204
01:18:25,230 --> 01:18:27,834
all I gotta say
is they haven't looked
1205
01:18:27,867 --> 01:18:29,903
at both sides of the story.
1206
01:18:29,935 --> 01:18:32,538
The timeframe that
my prosecution occurred
1207
01:18:32,571 --> 01:18:35,607
was after our government started
going after whistleblowers,
1208
01:18:35,641 --> 01:18:37,509
or potential whistleblowers,
1209
01:18:37,543 --> 01:18:40,679
so that means my prosecution
was politically motivated.
1210
01:18:44,483 --> 01:18:48,253
When all of this media
was being generated,
1211
01:18:48,287 --> 01:18:52,859
we were prohibited by
court rules and local rules
1212
01:18:52,892 --> 01:18:59,064
and ethical rules and DOJ policy
from talking to the media. Um...
1213
01:18:59,097 --> 01:19:04,737
So it was interesting to see the
perspective that they were putting out
1214
01:19:04,771 --> 01:19:10,409
and it certainly wasn't a well rounded
story about what was going on at all.
1215
01:19:10,442 --> 01:19:12,444
It was a little frustrating.
1216
01:19:14,980 --> 01:19:21,553
They put up Facebook pages,
held news conferences,
1217
01:19:21,587 --> 01:19:24,623
they put up gofundme pages,
1218
01:19:24,656 --> 01:19:28,160
they tried to raise money
by promoting
1219
01:19:28,193 --> 01:19:31,230
the anonymous conspiracy theory.
1220
01:19:36,101 --> 01:19:38,337
I can only imagine how difficult
1221
01:19:38,370 --> 01:19:40,639
it must have been
for these victims
1222
01:19:40,672 --> 01:19:42,441
and their families to see
Matthew dehart
1223
01:19:42,474 --> 01:19:45,410
and his family billing him
as being
1224
01:19:45,444 --> 01:19:48,514
a victim of the system
when, in fact,
1225
01:19:48,547 --> 01:19:50,282
they were the ones
who were victims
1226
01:19:50,315 --> 01:19:53,285
and were being victimized again
by dehart
1227
01:19:53,318 --> 01:19:55,654
and his family in the media.
1228
01:20:03,529 --> 01:20:06,298
A former American
soldier allegedly turned hacker
1229
01:20:06,331 --> 01:20:10,102
who was seeking asylum in Canada
has been deported to the us.
1230
01:20:10,135 --> 01:20:13,338
Thirty-year-old Matt dehart
claims he is being persecuted
1231
01:20:13,372 --> 01:20:16,308
by the United States government
for his political beliefs
1232
01:20:16,341 --> 01:20:18,310
as a hacker and whistleblower
1233
01:20:18,343 --> 01:20:20,321
involved in leaking sensitive
government information.
1234
01:20:20,345 --> 01:20:22,381
His claim for refugee status
in Canada
1235
01:20:22,414 --> 01:20:25,617
was denied and so was a similar
claim made by his parents.
1236
01:20:25,651 --> 01:20:28,153
Joining us this morning,
Paul and leann dehart.
1237
01:20:28,186 --> 01:20:32,357
He wanted to stay here, you wanted to
stay here and now you may have to leave?
1238
01:20:32,391 --> 01:20:34,326
We, we are under a departure
order.
1239
01:20:34,359 --> 01:20:36,029
We have to leave by April 1st.
1240
01:20:39,899 --> 01:20:43,803
It ended with the
claims for asylum being refused.
1241
01:20:43,836 --> 01:20:48,507
Because the board member ruled
that at the end of the day,
1242
01:20:48,540 --> 01:20:53,046
we hadn't presented sufficient
evidence to show that, um,
1243
01:20:53,078 --> 01:20:56,983
uh, the United States government
1244
01:20:57,016 --> 01:21:01,520
was unable or unwilling
to offer Matthew
1245
01:21:01,553 --> 01:21:05,357
and his family
the protection that they needed.
1246
01:21:08,795 --> 01:21:12,364
They brought him
across the border at buffalo.
1247
01:21:12,397 --> 01:21:17,937
And then I went up to the
border to meet Paul and leann
1248
01:21:17,971 --> 01:21:20,783
because they had a legitimate concern
that they were gonna get detained.
1249
01:21:20,807 --> 01:21:22,541
I'm in Canada right now
with the deharts.
1250
01:21:22,574 --> 01:21:25,277
They're about to cross back
over to the United States.
1251
01:21:27,914 --> 01:21:32,584
Certificate of departure
from Canada.
1252
01:21:32,618 --> 01:21:35,420
We pulled over by the fence,
I opened up the two tool boxes,
1253
01:21:35,454 --> 01:21:38,099
I thought, "okay, we'll have the
inspection and go in and talk to them."
1254
01:21:38,123 --> 01:21:40,692
And he handed us
our passports back
1255
01:21:40,726 --> 01:21:43,595
and leann said he told him,
"now we'll just be on our way."
1256
01:21:43,629 --> 01:21:46,531
And I'm like, "that's it,
really?
1257
01:21:46,565 --> 01:21:50,903
We're just driving, there's no questions?
There's no..."
1258
01:21:50,937 --> 01:21:54,874
So that's... it's a tremendous
relief. Um, I... I can only...
1259
01:21:54,907 --> 01:21:59,746
Um, imagine that the reason
why this went so smoothly
1260
01:21:59,779 --> 01:22:02,081
was because the world
is watching,
1261
01:22:02,115 --> 01:22:04,050
and I appreciate everybody
who's been following
1262
01:22:04,083 --> 01:22:07,319
our story, so, yeah, that's it.
1263
01:22:07,352 --> 01:22:09,421
It's a story that
I thought needed to be told.
1264
01:22:09,454 --> 01:22:11,924
I appreciate that.
I appreciate the way you did it.
1265
01:22:11,958 --> 01:22:14,393
Okay, all the best, sir.
1266
01:22:19,598 --> 01:22:21,433
Him fleeing to Canada,
1267
01:22:21,466 --> 01:22:23,602
and this whole national
security investigation
1268
01:22:23,635 --> 01:22:26,973
gave us an opportunity to submit
an external hard drive
1269
01:22:27,006 --> 01:22:29,075
to the FBI to decrypt
1270
01:22:29,108 --> 01:22:33,012
and from there,
I was able to start my analysis
1271
01:22:33,046 --> 01:22:35,014
on that encrypted hard drive
1272
01:22:35,048 --> 01:22:39,085
and that's where I found
the images of the second victim.
1273
01:22:39,118 --> 01:22:41,386
He soon plead guilty after that.
1274
01:23:00,338 --> 01:23:03,675
After all these years
of outlandish claims he's made,
1275
01:23:03,709 --> 01:23:05,120
and all the resources
that the government
1276
01:23:05,144 --> 01:23:07,814
has had to expend
to deal with this case
1277
01:23:07,847 --> 01:23:10,783
and to deal with these claims,
he did plead guilty.
1278
01:23:10,817 --> 01:23:12,885
He admitted that he had
exploited children
1279
01:23:12,919 --> 01:23:16,022
and justice was done
in the case.
1280
01:23:18,057 --> 01:23:20,960
Yes, I plead guilty
to something I did not do.
1281
01:23:20,993 --> 01:23:23,328
You have to keep in mind
all the power
1282
01:23:23,361 --> 01:23:25,564
in the us court system
lies with the prosecution.
1283
01:23:25,597 --> 01:23:27,299
It's what they decide
to show you,
1284
01:23:27,332 --> 01:23:29,068
what they decide to show
the judge,
1285
01:23:29,102 --> 01:23:31,070
and especially if you're
sitting in county jail,
1286
01:23:31,104 --> 01:23:33,806
you have almost no
negotiating power.
1287
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,241
If that went to trial,
all you would have to do
1288
01:23:36,274 --> 01:23:39,344
is show one picture
of a naked kid
1289
01:23:39,377 --> 01:23:41,214
and everybody in there
in Tennessee
1290
01:23:41,246 --> 01:23:44,217
or anywhere else in our
country would say "guilty."
1291
01:23:44,249 --> 01:23:47,285
And all you would have to say
is, "oh, and by the way,
1292
01:23:47,319 --> 01:23:50,089
this young man went into
the Russian embassy."
1293
01:23:50,123 --> 01:23:53,226
And every single one of them
would say, "hang him."
1294
01:23:57,562 --> 01:24:01,033
I didn't consider
90 months to be unacceptable.
1295
01:24:01,067 --> 01:24:06,338
I had already been incarcerated
for close to five years.
1296
01:24:06,371 --> 01:24:09,274
Uh, with good time,
I'd only be spending
1297
01:24:09,307 --> 01:24:11,576
about two and a half years
in prison.
1298
01:24:11,610 --> 01:24:13,222
Compared to what I was
being threatened with
1299
01:24:13,246 --> 01:24:15,514
if they had sent me
to DC to be prosecuted,
1300
01:24:15,547 --> 01:24:17,682
which was something
like 30-50 years.
1301
01:24:17,716 --> 01:24:20,219
Um, and I wanna see my family
again
1302
01:24:20,253 --> 01:24:22,133
and I wanna be able to live
a normal life again.
1303
01:24:24,891 --> 01:24:27,692
It's not like he
just waltzed up and said,
1304
01:24:27,726 --> 01:24:32,899
"okay, yeah, I'll plea to this
nasty stuff that I didn't do."
1305
01:24:32,932 --> 01:24:34,801
No, it didn't work that way,
1306
01:24:34,834 --> 01:24:38,570
he was threatened, we were
threatened to go to prison,
1307
01:24:38,603 --> 01:24:41,741
if he didn't take the plea deal.
1308
01:24:41,774 --> 01:24:46,378
We're a very close family and
we would all die for each other.
1309
01:24:47,980 --> 01:24:50,116
We're here on the sentencing
1310
01:24:50,149 --> 01:24:53,718
in the United States
vs. Matthew Paul dehart.
1311
01:24:53,753 --> 01:24:56,122
Are there any witnesses
today for the government?
1312
01:24:56,155 --> 01:24:58,257
No witnesses, your honor,
1313
01:24:58,291 --> 01:25:01,359
but we do have victim impact
statements.
1314
01:25:03,628 --> 01:25:07,900
We hope you realize the great
truth of your conviction.
1315
01:25:07,934 --> 01:25:11,436
These charges you have
confessed to are not bogus,
1316
01:25:11,469 --> 01:25:12,704
they are real.
1317
01:25:13,940 --> 01:25:15,808
You are finally exposed
1318
01:25:15,842 --> 01:25:18,945
and the lies you were living
are no more.
1319
01:25:18,978 --> 01:25:21,413
The seven years we have awaited
justice
1320
01:25:21,446 --> 01:25:24,349
has taken a great toll
on our family.
1321
01:25:25,550 --> 01:25:29,255
Watching you and your mother
and father in Canada
1322
01:25:29,288 --> 01:25:31,523
try to build your case of lies
1323
01:25:31,556 --> 01:25:33,926
was even more painful.
1324
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:39,031
Thankfully, Canada has
sent you back to face us all.
1325
01:25:39,065 --> 01:25:42,335
We're the real victims
of the web you spun
1326
01:25:42,367 --> 01:25:44,669
to trap our children.
1327
01:25:44,703 --> 01:25:48,140
My son initially
thought you were a friend.
1328
01:25:48,174 --> 01:25:50,343
A fiend is more like it.
1329
01:25:50,375 --> 01:25:53,946
You undermined our core
Christian beliefs.
1330
01:25:53,980 --> 01:25:57,682
I honestly believe that you
thought this was a game.
1331
01:25:57,716 --> 01:26:00,353
You got away with it for quite
a while,
1332
01:26:00,385 --> 01:26:01,954
but the game is over.
1333
01:26:01,988 --> 01:26:03,055
You have lost.
1334
01:26:04,323 --> 01:26:07,293
You are captured and have
admitted your wrongdoing
1335
01:26:07,326 --> 01:26:11,364
only after many delays
and manipulation of the courts,
1336
01:26:11,396 --> 01:26:14,901
the press, and anyone else
who would listen to you.
1337
01:26:14,934 --> 01:26:18,170
You are answering to this court
today,
1338
01:26:18,204 --> 01:26:20,806
but one day,
I believe you will stand
1339
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:22,909
before the judgment seat of god.
1340
01:26:40,558 --> 01:26:43,062
At the end of my son's plea,
1341
01:26:43,095 --> 01:26:45,530
the judge made the effort
to say,
1342
01:26:45,563 --> 01:26:48,700
"what about this national
security case?
1343
01:26:48,734 --> 01:26:50,169
Is this still open?
1344
01:26:50,202 --> 01:26:53,172
Can Mr. Dehart be charged
with this?"
1345
01:26:53,205 --> 01:26:56,909
And the government said,
"well, yes, he could."
1346
01:26:56,943 --> 01:27:00,578
We're looking forward to
the day, September 11th, 2018.
1347
01:27:00,612 --> 01:27:02,580
Strange date they picked
to release him.
1348
01:27:03,416 --> 01:27:04,850
And we fully expect,
1349
01:27:04,884 --> 01:27:07,420
it would not surprise us at all,
1350
01:27:07,485 --> 01:27:11,723
if they don't come by with
some vans and arrest him,
1351
01:27:11,757 --> 01:27:13,025
for something else.
1352
01:27:13,059 --> 01:27:16,128
So we never know,
you never know.
1353
01:27:30,575 --> 01:27:32,778
The plea that
I had to sign included
1354
01:27:32,812 --> 01:27:35,480
my Canadian credit
towards my sentence.
1355
01:27:35,513 --> 01:27:37,083
And that was the deal,
1356
01:27:37,116 --> 01:27:40,286
it's a binding contract
between the defense
1357
01:27:40,319 --> 01:27:42,288
and the federal government.
1358
01:27:42,321 --> 01:27:45,724
And evidently they can break
a contract with impunity,
1359
01:27:45,758 --> 01:27:47,059
and that's lawlessness.
1360
01:27:47,093 --> 01:27:48,660
It's very frustrating.
1361
01:27:49,929 --> 01:27:54,632
It's almost like somebody in DC
1362
01:27:54,666 --> 01:28:01,240
or somebody is still
extremely upset and worried
1363
01:28:01,273 --> 01:28:07,645
about the information
that Matt came across.
1364
01:28:07,679 --> 01:28:13,486
And if I was paranoid
and conspiracy-minded,
1365
01:28:13,518 --> 01:28:17,522
I would say that somebody was
trying to send him a message.
1366
01:28:18,391 --> 01:28:20,092
And that message is,
1367
01:28:21,127 --> 01:28:24,997
"be careful, we can still fuck
with you.
1368
01:28:25,031 --> 01:28:27,266
And this isn't over yet".
1369
01:28:39,745 --> 01:28:42,982
This is gonna be Matt's
room. Um...
1370
01:28:43,015 --> 01:28:48,521
I started putting some things
in his bureau for him, um,
1371
01:28:48,553 --> 01:28:50,823
his clothing.
1372
01:28:50,856 --> 01:28:53,125
Uh, I have to buy him
new clothing,
1373
01:28:53,159 --> 01:28:56,796
he lost a lot of weight
in prison, and that's okay.
1374
01:28:56,829 --> 01:28:59,899
And so I'm just trying
to get things ready
1375
01:28:59,932 --> 01:29:03,635
and organized for him
when he comes home.
1376
01:29:08,706 --> 01:29:12,577
This is, um, guy Fawkes,
and my son,
1377
01:29:13,879 --> 01:29:17,983
I think he's had this mask
since like 2005,
1378
01:29:18,918 --> 01:29:21,087
so I keep that.
1379
01:30:20,412 --> 01:30:24,583
I had been at
the second victim's house,
1380
01:30:24,617 --> 01:30:28,854
and this is in the evening, um,
1381
01:30:28,888 --> 01:30:31,223
taking some... getting some
additional information
1382
01:30:31,257 --> 01:30:35,727
when the phone rang
and it just so happened to be,
1383
01:30:35,761 --> 01:30:37,630
I think the caller ID said
1384
01:30:37,662 --> 01:30:41,167
it was a law firm out of New York City.
1385
01:30:45,638 --> 01:30:48,974
Um, n-no, about what?
1386
01:30:49,008 --> 01:30:51,777
The second victim
had informed Matthew dehart
1387
01:30:51,810 --> 01:30:53,746
that the police were
involved at this stage.
1388
01:30:53,779 --> 01:30:56,649
And so Matthew dehart,
portraying himself as a lawyer
1389
01:30:56,681 --> 01:30:59,318
from a law firm in New York,
1390
01:30:59,351 --> 01:31:04,523
said he's trying to get everybody
to stop contacting his client,
1391
01:31:04,557 --> 01:31:10,362
which is actually him, from further
investigating these allegations.
1392
01:31:16,202 --> 01:31:17,436
Pre-texting?
1393
01:31:17,469 --> 01:31:20,272
- Phone pre-texting.
- Okay.
1394
01:31:20,306 --> 01:31:23,042
As I was doing the forensic analysis
of Matthew dehart's computers,
1395
01:31:23,075 --> 01:31:28,447
I found a transcript that was typed out
by Matthew dehart as to what to say.
1396
01:31:28,480 --> 01:31:30,115
He had done a little bit
of research
1397
01:31:30,149 --> 01:31:35,087
into certain United States
statutes about phone calls
1398
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,324
and certain legal responses.
1399
01:31:38,357 --> 01:31:40,326
He made a whole script
as to what to say
1400
01:31:40,359 --> 01:31:42,294
so he wouldn't get off script.
1401
01:31:42,328 --> 01:31:44,496
So he could make it sound
authentic.
1402
01:31:47,766 --> 01:31:49,535
Uh-huh?
1403
01:31:52,171 --> 01:31:55,307
No. I don't know what
you're talking about.
1404
01:31:55,341 --> 01:31:59,044
- Thank you.
- Okay, you're welcome.
1405
01:31:59,078 --> 01:32:03,749
Today's date
is the 8th of January,
1406
01:32:03,782 --> 01:32:06,719
I'm here with... and his mother.
1407
01:32:06,752 --> 01:32:10,189
- Uh, you identify his voice as being Matthew's?
- Yes.
1408
01:32:10,222 --> 01:32:12,157
The first conversation
you played
1409
01:32:12,191 --> 01:32:15,761
sounds very much to me
like it was Matt dehart.
1410
01:32:15,794 --> 01:32:18,330
After that call was finished
with the victim's mother,
1411
01:32:18,364 --> 01:32:23,235
the suspect, Matthew dehart,
called back wanting to speak
1412
01:32:23,269 --> 01:32:26,005
to the second victim
to try to find out
1413
01:32:26,038 --> 01:32:27,741
from him what was going on.
1414
01:32:27,773 --> 01:32:30,442
I can get my mom
if you want me to.
1415
01:32:38,484 --> 01:32:42,254
I'm not really sure right now.
1416
01:32:42,288 --> 01:32:47,860
Like, I don't know whether you're
the age you tell me you are
1417
01:32:47,893 --> 01:32:50,129
or I don't know, Matt.
1418
01:32:50,162 --> 01:32:52,064
The victim was
very scared at that time
1419
01:32:52,097 --> 01:32:54,533
'cause at that time,
the victim still believed that
1420
01:32:54,566 --> 01:32:56,568
Matthew dehart
was Matthew dimarco,
1421
01:32:56,602 --> 01:33:01,607
the son of a infamous mobster
out of New York or New Jersey.
1422
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:05,077
And it was very apparent
that this victim was scared
1423
01:33:05,110 --> 01:33:08,782
and did not want to talk
to Matthew.
1424
01:33:11,483 --> 01:33:12,618
Yes.
1425
01:33:14,119 --> 01:33:17,791
Yes, I'm in a tough situation
right now.
1426
01:33:29,034 --> 01:33:33,439
Fifteen minutes after that phone
call, Matthew dehart calls back
1427
01:33:33,472 --> 01:33:37,343
and wants to speak to
the victim's mother again,
1428
01:33:37,376 --> 01:33:39,978
and the victim's mother
had a conversation
1429
01:33:40,012 --> 01:33:42,381
which I was also present for
and recorded.
1430
01:33:48,620 --> 01:33:51,758
Wait, your aunt
and uncle called your dad...
1431
01:33:53,325 --> 01:33:56,328
saying your aunt and uncle
are being harassed?
1432
01:34:01,066 --> 01:34:02,368
Yeah?
1433
01:34:05,704 --> 01:34:07,106
Uh-huh.
1434
01:34:11,343 --> 01:34:14,346
And that's Matt
supposedly impersonating...
1435
01:34:17,716 --> 01:34:20,052
Uh-huh.
1436
01:34:20,085 --> 01:34:23,222
And so does your cousin have the
same name as you or something?
1437
01:34:25,991 --> 01:34:29,661
So two different last names,
but you're both Matthew?
1438
01:34:29,695 --> 01:34:31,463
And that's where the confusion...
1439
01:34:38,437 --> 01:34:39,873
Okay.
1440
01:34:39,905 --> 01:34:42,842
And...
1441
01:34:42,876 --> 01:34:44,710
What's your dad do?
1442
01:34:44,744 --> 01:34:46,545
I don't know what your dad does.
1443
01:34:50,249 --> 01:34:52,384
It sounds like
this has just become
1444
01:34:52,418 --> 01:34:54,052
a very desperate situation
for him
1445
01:34:54,086 --> 01:34:57,089
'cause I think he knew
he was gonna get in trouble.
1446
01:35:31,990 --> 01:35:34,693
Through my investigation,
I was able to find out
1447
01:35:34,726 --> 01:35:38,197
the name of another individual
somewhere in the United States.
1448
01:35:38,230 --> 01:35:42,802
That victim was interviewed and I was
given a report on the conversation
1449
01:35:42,836 --> 01:35:46,438
that the investigator
and the other victim had.
1450
01:35:46,472 --> 01:35:49,441
And through that,
it was learned that
1451
01:35:49,475 --> 01:35:56,448
there were other things going on other than
just the exchanging of images and videos.
1452
01:35:56,482 --> 01:35:58,217
And that's according
to the victim.
1453
01:36:04,456 --> 01:36:08,093
If the government
had this evidence against him,
1454
01:36:08,126 --> 01:36:10,662
I would have liked to
have seen it in court.
1455
01:36:10,696 --> 01:36:15,234
It boggles my mind
why the government left...
1456
01:36:15,267 --> 01:36:19,806
The police force left
all of these things dangling.
1457
01:36:19,839 --> 01:36:22,909
It's just something
I don't know.
1458
01:36:22,942 --> 01:36:25,677
It's, it's very disturbing,
1459
01:36:25,711 --> 01:36:29,648
and, uh... if true,
1460
01:36:29,681 --> 01:36:33,552
it's despicable behavior
and sad to hear about.
1461
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:39,191
The victim had...
Did not wanna come forward
1462
01:36:39,224 --> 01:36:41,627
as far as prosecution
was concerned
1463
01:36:41,660 --> 01:36:44,998
unless this was to eventually
go to trial.
1464
01:36:45,030 --> 01:36:46,632
In resolving any of these cases,
1465
01:36:46,665 --> 01:36:49,535
we're always talking
to the victims
1466
01:36:49,568 --> 01:36:52,671
to make sure that they are
comfortable
1467
01:36:52,704 --> 01:36:56,475
with whatever resolution it is
that we're trying to come to,
1468
01:36:56,508 --> 01:37:00,279
and sometimes the defendants end up
getting to plead to lesser charges
1469
01:37:00,312 --> 01:37:05,050
or less time
in an effort to avoid, uh,
1470
01:37:05,083 --> 01:37:08,186
having the children testify.
1471
01:37:19,999 --> 01:37:24,670
When Paul dehart
told us the government
1472
01:37:24,703 --> 01:37:29,441
was listening to us and that
he observed the glass move,
1473
01:37:30,375 --> 01:37:34,313
was that part of a plan
1474
01:37:34,346 --> 01:37:38,051
to create something
that didn't exist,
1475
01:37:38,885 --> 01:37:41,020
and was it calculated?
1476
01:37:41,054 --> 01:37:46,592
Mexico, Russia, Venezuela,
Canada, all those things.
1477
01:37:48,594 --> 01:37:52,698
Were... were they done
because they believed
1478
01:37:52,732 --> 01:37:58,503
that he was a target
of the United States
1479
01:37:58,537 --> 01:38:02,174
and that there was
a conspiracy to harm him?
1480
01:38:02,207 --> 01:38:06,411
Or did they do that because
they couldn't accept him
1481
01:38:07,245 --> 01:38:10,917
for what Matthew is?
1482
01:38:10,950 --> 01:38:15,420
You know?
And did their own beliefs,
1483
01:38:15,454 --> 01:38:22,361
their own fundamental
Christian beliefs,
1484
01:38:22,394 --> 01:38:26,231
laid on top of a military
background,
1485
01:38:26,264 --> 01:38:31,804
cause them to create and promote
1486
01:38:31,838 --> 01:38:36,109
a concocted conspiracy
1487
01:38:38,343 --> 01:38:41,848
rather than act in the best
interest of their child?
1488
01:38:43,850 --> 01:38:46,986
B-Because of the level
of secrecy,
1489
01:38:47,020 --> 01:38:51,256
uh, from all ends
involved in this case,
1490
01:38:51,289 --> 01:38:55,594
um, there's really no firm way
of...
1491
01:38:55,627 --> 01:39:00,933
That I can find of truly
knowing where the truth lies.
1492
01:39:00,967 --> 01:39:03,936
Matt's probably the only one
that really knows.
1493
01:40:22,347 --> 01:40:26,152
This case is a microcosm...
1494
01:40:26,185 --> 01:40:30,022
It's one case in a world
1495
01:40:30,056 --> 01:40:34,326
where we are all suffering
1496
01:40:34,359 --> 01:40:40,166
from the promotion of lies
as truths.
1497
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:42,534
We... we...
1498
01:40:42,567 --> 01:40:47,539
Everyday, we are subjected
to circumstances
1499
01:40:47,572 --> 01:40:53,246
where if someone says
something that's not true,
1500
01:40:53,278 --> 01:40:56,548
and says it enough times,
1501
01:40:56,581 --> 01:41:02,188
it will find support
and eventually be accepted
1502
01:41:02,221 --> 01:41:04,556
by other people as true.
1503
01:41:09,661 --> 01:41:14,599
I think we often
establish stories and narratives
1504
01:41:14,633 --> 01:41:16,869
with incomplete information,
1505
01:41:16,903 --> 01:41:21,406
and then activists
and advocates take a stance,
1506
01:41:21,439 --> 01:41:25,211
um, just hoping
that's the right thing.
1507
01:41:26,179 --> 01:41:28,981
And then stories get written,
1508
01:41:29,015 --> 01:41:31,550
and Wikipedia pages get written.
1509
01:41:31,583 --> 01:41:34,987
And, yeah, it takes a life
of its own as being truth.
1510
01:41:36,488 --> 01:41:39,225
If we ever want to live
in a world
1511
01:41:39,258 --> 01:41:40,960
where we can trust the truth,
1512
01:41:40,993 --> 01:41:44,263
it also means having
to reevaluate evidence
1513
01:41:44,297 --> 01:41:48,267
as new things come up
and maybe change your mind.