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[Rowe] Craiova, Romania.
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00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,440
In the cramped suburbs of this small city
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00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,240
lies one of the country's toughest
maximum security prisons.
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The majority of inmates here are from
Romania's excluded Gypsy community,
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doing time for rape, robbery,
and crimes of horrific violence.
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Who did you kill?
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[in Romanian] A Gypsy king.
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I cut his throat, cut open
his internal organs and his hand.
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[Rowe] My name is Raphael Rowe.
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I'm going to spend a week
locked up inside this Romanian prison.
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But it's not my first time behind bars.
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I was convicted in the UK of a murder
I didn't commit
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and sentenced to life with no parole.
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It took me 12 long years to clear my name.
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Now I'm traveling the globe
to discover what life is really like
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inside some of the world's
toughest prisons.
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[Rowe] Sometimes, it's the inmates
that make a prison tough.
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And Craiova Prison in Romania
has some of the toughest.
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Its violent criminals
reflect a shocking social problem.
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An estimated 60% of the prisoners
are Roma Gypsies.
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But Gypsies make up just 3%
of the country's population.
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I'm spending a week inside Craiova Prison.
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But before I do time,
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I want to discover
from Roma Gypsies themselves
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why so many of their people are locked up.
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-[traditional music playing]
-[indistinct chatter]
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I'm here to meet one of the local Gypsies.
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He's bringing me into his family home,
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to show me a different side
of the Gypsy community here in Romania.
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Until the mid-19th century,
Gypsies in Romania were slaves.
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After centuries of persecution,
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many choose to live apart
from Romanian society.
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This family's clan, the Kalderari,
have traditionally worked with metal.
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[in Romanian] We sell them.
We sell all kinds of metals:
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brass, bronze, aluminum, as well.
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[in Romanian] This was our job
since we were children.
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Grandparents, children...
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Everyone did it!
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Why do you think Gypsies here
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get such a bad reputation
amongst the Romanian community?
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[in Romanian] There are several
Gypsy clans who steal,
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who don't live well.
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But we are not like them!
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[Rowe] I've been welcomed
into this family's home.
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-[woman] Hey, hey!
-Here we go.
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[chuckles]
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[Rowe] But there's a darker side
to the Gypsy story in Romania.
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[dog barking]
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[Rowe] The sky-high
imprisonment rate for Gypsies
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is linked to centuries of social exclusion
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00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,560
and traditions within
the Gypsy community itself.
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Child marriage and poor education
trap many in poverty,
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and for some clans,
criminality and violent feuds
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are ingrained in a macho,
Gypsy way of life.
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It'll be interesting to find out
whether the people I meet in prison...
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are pushed into the situation they're in,
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because they have been
discriminated against,
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or whether they're outright criminals.
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I'm on my way to spend a week
inside Craiova Prison
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-to find out more about its Gypsy inmates.
-[police siren wailing]
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I'm a bit unnerved about where I'm going.
I don't know what to expect.
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Everything from this moment onwards
is going to be decided for me,
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dictated by prison guards.
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That level of control
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reduces you to... a nonentity.
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Come with me. This way, please.
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[Rowe] Every time I go into a prison,
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it brings back tough memories
of my 12 years behind bars in Britain.
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The first step to becoming a prisoner
is a security check.
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[in Romanian] Anything else on you?
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No.
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Telephones? Knives?
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-Guns?
-No.
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-Grenades?
-No.
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Take your top off. Remove your clothes.
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I will perform a thorough search
down to your underwear.
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[Rowe] Over the course of check-in,
I'm stripped, searched, and interrogated.
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It's just form after form after form.
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I feel like I'm signing my life away.
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00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,160
Sign here, please.
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[Rowe] The barrage of form filling
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is a reminder that from now on,
nothing is private.
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Let's go.
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We're here.
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-We're here?
-Yeah.
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[Rowe] Before joining
the main prison population,
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I'm taken to quarantine,
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where new inmates
are monitored for 21 days.
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It's a chance to risk assess prisoners
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00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,800
and isolate those
with violent criminal rivalries.
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Here, everyone from carjackers
to murderers
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share the same tiny set
of caged exercise yards,
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the only outdoor space available
in this part of the prison.
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I'm let inside to meet
some of the newest arrivals.
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It's my first opportunity to see what
conditions in this prison are really like.
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00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,720
Do any of you guys speak English?
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[in Romanian] We do not speak it
very well.
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00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,320
How long have you guys
been in here already?
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[in Romanian] One month.
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How many times have you been to prison?
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Twice. Now is the third time.
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[Rowe] These guys
obviously know their way around,
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and I'm keen to find out
what to expect after quarantine.
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[in Romanian] The cells are very nasty
and overcrowded.
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You feel you have no air.
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What community do you come from?
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There are many Roma Gypsies here.
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[in Romanian] There's no justice for us.
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We feel that Romanian punishments
are more suitable for dogs than people.
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Actually, not even dogs deserve this.
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[Rowe] Of the first prisoners I've met,
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three of them are from
the Gypsy community.
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The one thing that struck me
more than anything
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is the anger on their expressions,
the, um...
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the words of victimization.
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They are saying they are victims
of a system that's treated them unfairly.
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Is what these guys
are telling me, in quarantine,
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representative of what happens to Gypsies?
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After the assessment period,
prisoners are allocated to a cell.
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I've been assigned
to the medium security wing,
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housing inmates deemed to be a lower risk,
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serving sentences for all manner
of crimes, from robbery to murder.
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With almost a thousand inmates
in Craiova's cramped city plot,
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space is tight.
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In recent years, prisons across Romania
have been struck by violent riots.
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The main cause: poor conditions
and chronic overcrowding.
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I'm a bit apprehensive,
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based on what these guys
said to me about the conditions:
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the cramped-ness,
the not being able to breathe.
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And I feel slightly panicky about...
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about the idea that I'm gonna be
cocooned in a space.
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Hello. Hello.
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My name is Raphael. I'm your new cellmate.
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I don't know if any of you speak English?
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Yeah, I speak a little bit of English.
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-Oh, hi.
-Yeah, hello.
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I'm Raphael. Can you tell these other guys
that I'm their new cellmate?
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No problem. We're gonna...
We're gonna begin with these guys here.
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-Okay.
-Yeah.
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[Rowe] One prisoner, Armand,
is happy to show me around.
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And as I meet my other cellmates,
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it's clear this cell is not quite
as crowded as I'd feared.
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-Okay, so how many beds is there?
-We have, like, 24.
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-There's one for me?
-Yeah, there's a bed for you.
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Here, maybe one here.
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[Rowe] With bedding still in place,
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it looks like the previous occupant
left in a hurry.
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Does this belong to someone already?
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No, it is free. There are many free beds.
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Have you been in here
when there's been as many as 24?
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00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,080
Yeah, but when there is 24,
it's a little bit...
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-Overcrowded?
-Yeah.
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[Rowe] With rumors
of chronic overcrowding,
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I'm wondering if the guards have removed
some prisoners for my benefit.
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Or perhaps they're just camera shy.
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There are still 13 men in here.
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With little privacy, it wouldn't take much
for tensions to spill over.
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So, once the door's locked
and the guards are out of sight,
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flare-ups among
these dangerous inmates are common.
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Having had experience of prison myself,
back in England,
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I wouldn't be intimidated
by anybody or anything.
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But how do you deal with the aggression
of another cellmate
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who's becoming aggressive
and maybe threatening?
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Sometimes, the problems from the cell,
we resolve them here.
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If you have a difference with someone,
will you have a one-on-one fight?
166
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You can have a fair fight.
At the end of it, that ends it?
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If he is a big problem, we're gonna...
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00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:11,880
tell them, "Stop here. Go outside."
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What else is available to me
in here, Armand?
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-We have here the shower.
-Can I see?
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00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:19,360
Yeah, of course. Come.
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-This is the shower?
-This is the shower.
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[Rowe] The facilities seem
in reasonably good condition.
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00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,560
-The three showers work?
-Yeah, three showers working. We have...
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[Rowe] Although, with prisoners
stashing food items
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to supplement their meager prison diet,
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this cell has attracted
the odd unwelcome visitor.
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Like the majority of prisoners
in this cell, Armand is a Gypsy.
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00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,560
I'm curious to know
more about his community
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00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,880
and what brought him to prison.
181
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,280
-How long is your sentence?
-Ten years.
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00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,680
-It's a long time.
-It is a very long time.
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00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,200
Can I ask what you're doing ten years for?
184
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,880
-Attempted murder.
-Attempted murder?
185
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,240
Yeah, attempted murder.
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00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,160
It was a fight.
187
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,560
It implicated my cousins
188
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,520
and all my family...
189
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,160
with other Gypsy guys.
190
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,040
-Right.
-Yeah.
191
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,880
[Rowe] After a dispute over money between
his cousin and a rival Gypsy family,
192
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,480
Armand himself became a target.
193
00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:32,800
These Gypsy Romanians came to my home,
and they beat me...
194
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,520
and they said to my cousin...
195
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,080
"We're gonna get you."
Something like that.
196
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,320
Is that part of the Gypsy culture, that if
one person from a family gets involved,
197
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,640
-they target the whole family?
-Yeah.
198
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,120
-All right.
-It's like this.
199
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,440
[Rowe] After the beating,
Armand was intent on revenge.
200
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,240
One day, my cousin called me and asked,
"Come. These guys are over here."
201
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,160
I went to meet him,
and he's beginning the big fight.
202
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,160
And I took out the gun, and I shot him.
203
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,280
How did it feel, pointing that gun
at this person that you wanted to hurt?
204
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,400
And I suspect, Armand,
when you pointed the gun at him,
205
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,560
you wanted to kill him.
206
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,120
That was your intention,
not to hurt him, but to kill him.
207
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,280
Yeah, sure.
208
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,560
Yet the question is how I felt
before that, when he beat my family.
209
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,520
And I have this anger in my heart,
210
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,280
and that's why I felt nothing after.
211
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,760
[Rowe] For Armand, blood feuds
and vendettas between clans
212
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,640
are an expected part of Gypsy life.
213
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,560
All too often,
this brutal culture of revenge
214
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,640
leads many Gypsies either to death
or a long prison sentence.
215
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,960
As my first day in Craiova
comes to an end,
216
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,800
I'm struck by just how confined
conditions in the prison really are.
217
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,280
Just like Brixton Prison in London,
where I did time, space is scarce.
218
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,280
It means inmates spend
a lot more time in their cells.
219
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,080
I've seen people swinging lines.
220
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,360
By that, I mean they tie
bits of fabric together,
221
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,280
put something on the end of it, swing it,
222
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,720
and throw it to a prisoner next door.
223
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,840
Using lines to pass messages,
cigarettes, and other contraband
224
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,280
is common in prisons the world over.
225
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,320
-[indistinct chatter]
-It has the hum and the noise of a prison,
226
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,720
including prisoners
shouting out their cells.
227
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:38,200
So, whatever freedoms they do have,
this is a place of confinement,
228
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,240
and everything around me
reminds me of that.
229
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,800
It's a new day in Craiova Prison.
230
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,680
And for many prisoners,
it's time to go to work.
231
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,040
By taking a job in places
like the prison's shoe workshop,
232
00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,920
inmates receive an income
and earn time off their sentence.
233
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,080
Even so, not everyone chooses to work.
234
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,680
Those who don't are confined
to their cells for most of the day.
235
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,520
Today, I've been assigned
a job in the kitchens.
236
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,080
Hi.
237
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:19,960
My name is Raphael.
238
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,200
I've been told to come here
to help with the cooking today?
239
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,080
-Dragusin.
-Dragusin? Raphael.
240
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,920
Showing me the ropes is Gypsy inmate
Dragusin Saban.
241
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,800
[in Romanian] Today,
we're making doughnuts.
242
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,640
It's easy.
We just take them and shape them.
243
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,840
Do you have to train to work in here?
244
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,560
Not really. We come and learn here,
245
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,400
but anyone that knows
how to do it is welcome.
246
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,160
So, do you think,
when you get out of prison,
247
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,560
the skill you've learned in this kitchen
will help you get a job?
248
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,200
Yes, I'm sure it will help me.
249
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:10,440
[Rowe] Unemployment in the Gypsy community
that Dragusin is from is close to 50%.
250
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,160
So, for him, learning
a new skill like this
251
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,160
could be a vital part
of his rehabilitation.
252
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:18,960
How long are you serving?
253
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,440
I got 14 years.
254
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,160
That's a long time.
255
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,680
What did you get sentenced
to 14 years for?
256
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:28,880
For rape.
257
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,200
Really?
258
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,280
That's quite a serious offense.
259
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,600
Are you guilty of the rape?
260
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,120
Yes.
261
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:47,600
The boys and I were at a party.
We started drinking and then it happened.
262
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,320
The woman you raped, was she a Gypsy?
263
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:53,440
No.
264
00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:00,160
[Rowe] In Romania, the rape of a non-Gypsy
by a Gypsy is especially controversial.
265
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,360
Dragusin believes this may
have affected his sentence.
266
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:10,200
Do you think that your 14 years
for the rape you committed was too much?
267
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:17,560
A lot of people convicted for murder
get eight-, nine-, or ten-year sentences.
268
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,720
But I got 14 for rape. It's not fair.
269
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,920
I doubt whether the woman you raped
would agree with that.
270
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,480
I don't think so.
271
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,560
[Rowe] In many prisons, sex offenders
are so hated by other inmates
272
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,440
that they're segregated
for their own safety.
273
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,880
So, seeing someone like Dragusin
274
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,680
work in the general prison population
is a surprise.
275
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,680
In my time in prison,
sex offenders were segregated.
276
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,120
Sex offenders wouldn't dare
come out of the hidden environment
277
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,040
that they were kept in
by the prison system.
278
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,240
So I am really surprised that he is,
279
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,200
and he says,
living amongst the general population.
280
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,520
With work in the kitchens done,
281
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,480
it's time to move on to my next job:
delivering the food.
282
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,119
On this wing,
the lack of space means all prisoners
283
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,680
are forced to eat in their cells.
284
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,160
So I'm going door-to-door
with chief server Michael.
285
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,280
[Michael in Romanian] Dinner's served.
Bring your bowls.
286
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,000
It's chicken soup and the rice dish.
287
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:27,119
[Rowe] On this wing, 20 or more prisoners
are locked up in a single, cramped room
288
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,480
for up to 20 hours a day.
289
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:37,720
And if the cells aren't bad enough,
the food looks less than appetizing.
290
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:42,560
This is one of the options,
but it's not very popular.
291
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,160
I've only seen one guy in about
five or six cells go for this one.
292
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,480
But inside, beggars can't be choosers.
293
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,320
-Do you like the food?
-[prisoner 1] Yes.
294
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,000
[prisoner 2 in Romanian]
We don't have much choice.
295
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,760
[Rowe] For Michael, a small income
isn't the only perk of this prison job.
296
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,160
For every day he works,
he gets time off his sentence.
297
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,360
I've earned 545 days so far.
298
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,960
So, you've already reduced
your sentence by over a year.
299
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,840
How long is your prison sentence?
300
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,160
Twenty-five years.
301
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,440
What crime did you commit to get 25 years?
302
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:30,240
Murder.
303
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:32,320
What happened?
304
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,520
My wife cheated on me
with my sister's husband.
305
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,080
I caught them both at it, and that was it.
306
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,520
You killed them both?
307
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,200
No, just her.
308
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:46,200
Just my wife.
309
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,200
How hard is it to live with what you did,
here in prison?
310
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,960
It's been hard for me ever since
I got arrested, but now I'm used to it.
311
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,000
It's been so many years.
I'm used to suffering.
312
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,520
[Rowe] Michael's story is a reminder that,
in this prison,
313
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,720
it's not just Gypsies who've committed
violent acts against women.
314
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,480
It seems this prison job is a way
to distract himself
315
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,720
from the memory of that crime.
316
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:20,800
How do you live a normal life?
317
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:25,200
There's gonna be so many memories
of what he destroyed
318
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,280
that he will never be able
to escape his crime.
319
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,840
I suppose what comes out of this for me
is that you're never that far away
320
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,400
from another prisoner who's committed
an horrendous crime.
321
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,680
Back in medium security, it's yard time.
322
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,000
For three precious hours a day,
prisoners are allowed out to exercise.
323
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:59,240
My cellmate, Armand, has challenged me
to a game of football tennis.
324
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,280
As a seasoned inmate,
he's had a lot of practice
325
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,800
and makes for a tough opponent.
326
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,520
[laughs]
327
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,360
Five for us.
328
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,360
[Rowe] Gradually, the tide starts to turn.
329
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,440
[Armand] Go!
330
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,920
Oh, man, look at me. I'm sweating.
Um, it's a good game. Very competitive.
331
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,400
Although, he is a bit
of a cheater, Armand. [chuckles]
332
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,360
-[Armand] Repeat this one, as well.
-Repeat this one, as well?
333
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,880
Every point I've played,
we've gotta repeat.
334
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,040
It was 5-1 a minute ago. It's now 6-6.
Where'd he get that from?
335
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,400
Despite Armand's
sometimes underhand tactics,
336
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,840
he eventually concedes defeat.
337
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,560
-We are the champions.
-That's true, yeah.
338
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,600
Good match, man.
339
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,080
[Rowe] Good match.
340
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,840
[sing-song] Champion, champion, champion.
341
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,400
Back in the cell,
it'll be another 21 hours
342
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,520
before many of the prisoners
are allowed out again.
343
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:06,320
Armand has been in jail
for much of his adult life.
344
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,560
When it comes to killing time,
he's an expert.
345
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,840
He's invited me to a game of rummy
with fellow Gypsy inmate Mustafa Marian,
346
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,360
serving a 20-year sentence for murder.
347
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,480
It's a good chance for me
to find out more about Gypsy life.
348
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,680
Before I came here, I heard that...
349
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,360
most of the prisoners
inside Craiova Prison
350
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,240
are made up of Gypsies. Why is that?
351
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:42,720
I think, first of all,
it's the education and the poverty.
352
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,080
So, many in the Gypsy community
who have not been educated...
353
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,600
-[Armand] Yeah.
-...like you.
354
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,120
Yeah, like me.
355
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,120
And why does that lead to more Gypsies
coming to prison?
356
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,600
Your crime is not a crime of poverty
or education, is it?
357
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,800
Yours is a crime of violence.
358
00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:59,720
Yeah.
359
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,280
I don't know. I don't know.
360
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,960
The truth is that we, the Roma,
we don't like to work so much.
361
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,840
That's the reputation that Gypsies have
probably around the world.
362
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:14,760
This is true, yeah.
363
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,880
[Rowe] For Armand, poor education
and a weak work ethic
364
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,760
are the toxic combination
that leads so many Gypsies into crime.
365
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,440
But when the conversation
turns to Mustafa's marriage,
366
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,960
I get another, even more shocking glimpse
into Gypsy culture.
367
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,880
So, how old was he when he got married?
368
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,800
[in Romanian] I got married
when I was about 13, 14 years old.
369
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,640
And how old was your, um, bride?
370
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,000
She was about 13.
371
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,640
-Thirteen?
-[Armand] Yeah.
372
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:57,160
And I know that's the, um,
Gypsy tradition and culture.
373
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,000
Is it still acceptable that 13 and...
374
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:01,920
[Armand] Now?
375
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,160
-Yeah.
-[Armand] Yeah.
376
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,920
You have a daughter. Your daughter comes,
377
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,080
and you'd be happy to marry her off
at 12 or 13 years old?
378
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,440
I must go with it.
379
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:19,680
I know how you see this,
but this is how we live.
380
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,720
[Rowe] Historically,
arranged child marriages
381
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,360
have been a way for Gypsies
to preserve their clan bloodlines.
382
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,120
To break such traditions
383
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,240
would bring shame and dishonor
on Armand's family.
384
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,240
But it's easy to see
why so many ordinary Romanians
385
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,320
see this aspect of the Gypsy culture
as criminal.
386
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,680
In a crowded prison like Craiova,
387
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,640
inmates usually take any chance
to get out of their cells.
388
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:55,840
Today, bad weather means
389
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,120
even the toughest prisoners
are choosing to stay locked up.
390
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,200
All, except one.
391
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,520
Gulie Florian is one of Craiova's
most notorious inmates.
392
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,400
Serving a life sentence, he's a Rudari,
393
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:18,240
an ethnic minority that most Romanians
consider the same as Roma Gypsies.
394
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,840
I've heard his case exposed the most
violent side of Romania's ethnic tensions.
395
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,480
-Hello. How are you doing?
-[in Romanian] Hello.
396
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:30,600
-Good to meet you.
-I'm Gulie.
397
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:31,960
Gulie, Raphael.
398
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,120
I'm joining
Gulie's improvised gym workout.
399
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,080
-It's a punishing routine...
-[grunts]
400
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,760
...that leaves me in no doubt
I'm dealing with an alpha prisoner,
401
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,360
the toughest of the tough.
402
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,640
-[both breathing heavily]
-[Rowe] You're good.
403
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,920
You're good. Tiring, right?
404
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,280
How often do you come and do this?
405
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:54,640
Two, three times a week.
406
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,640
And what are you in prison for?
407
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,800
What crime did you commit?
408
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:00,240
Murder.
409
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,520
How did you end up killing someone?
410
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,120
We went to a nightclub.
411
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,320
I wanted to get a table
for my friend and I.
412
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,480
But we were not allowed in the club,
being Gypsies.
413
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,560
A guy came along. I didn't know
that he was the owner of the nightclub.
414
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,640
He started insulting us, saying "Gypsies."
He punched my friend.
415
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:23,520
[Rowe] Before long, the fight attracted
the attention of Gulie's victim,
416
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,200
a non-Gypsy professional boxer.
417
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,320
The sportsman. His name was Gălbenuşe.
418
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,360
It was a fair fight,
but I couldn't get the better of him.
419
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,520
I couldn't because he was big. Big.
420
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,640
He'd been working for 10-15 years
as an MMA boxer.
421
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,000
And I cut him three times.
422
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,320
On his face.
423
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,280
Then in the back.
424
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,120
But I didn't know
that I had stabbed him in the heart.
425
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,440
Do you get a lot of respect
from the other prisoners
426
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,640
because of the person you killed?
427
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,160
[Gulie] Some of them, yes.
428
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,400
Especially the majority of Gypsies.
They are happy.
429
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,160
Because there's no place for us in discos
and clubs because of Romanian people.
430
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,520
Because they had been humiliated,
punched, spat on.
431
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,480
Do you feel that you're being
and have been discriminated against?
432
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,160
Yes, I was.
433
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,200
I wouldn't have gotten a life sentence
434
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,800
if the press hadn't made such a fuss
about me being a Gypsy.
435
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,160
The press destroyed me.
436
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,480
For five months, the television screamed,
437
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,400
"Gypsy, Gypsy. He killed the sportsman,
killed the boxer."
438
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,760
I was destroyed by the media.
439
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:51,840
Why? Because I'm a Gypsy?
We are just people, like everyone else.
440
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,760
[Rowe] Racial discrimination
was a common struggle for many
441
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,920
when I was in prison, including myself.
442
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,200
While there's no doubt
Gulie deserves a harsh punishment,
443
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,600
I'm struck by his belief
that he's been victimized
444
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,720
by a racist, segregated society.
445
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,920
I've been behind bars for a few days,
446
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,120
and I'm beginning to get a feel
for prison life here.
447
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,600
[indistinct chatter]
448
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,600
[Rowe] But now, I'm going to spend time
with the guards
449
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,040
to get their perspective.
450
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,280
And they are taking me
to one of the most feared blocks
451
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,040
in the entire prison.
452
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:46,280
They have a maximum security prison block
inside this high security prison.
453
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:49,200
And already it looks
distinctively different,
454
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,320
on the outside,
to the more relaxed blocks,
455
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,720
where I've met other prisoners
over the last couple of days.
456
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,240
And I'm gonna be taken inside
to see what it's like inside.
457
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:07,240
Locked in their cells
for up to 23 hours a day,
458
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,320
the prisoners here
are some of the country's
459
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,600
most dangerous rapists,
murderers, and hired killers.
460
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,960
It's prison officer Jilayu's job
to keep order in this volatile world.
461
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,120
This maximum security block,
how does it differ
462
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,880
from the other cell blocks
that are not so secure?
463
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,560
[in Romanian] Here we have
the most dangerous ones.
464
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,200
The ones with the longest sentences
are here.
465
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,520
There have to be fewer of them
in each cell in order to avoid conflict.
466
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,120
So, they are under total surveillance.
467
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,360
[Rowe] In here,
guards must remain constantly vigilant.
468
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,840
Even the smallest item out of place
could be used by a prisoner as a weapon.
469
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,880
Is there a set routine where you go
into the cells every day to check?
470
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,800
And what are you checking for?
471
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,840
We check each cell.
472
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,720
And we check to make sure
everything is in its place,
473
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,880
that the bars in the window are intact.
474
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,320
In this job, we need to be really alert.
475
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,680
[Rowe] On this wing, prisoners are kept
locked down in tiny rooms,
476
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,160
three to a cell.
477
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,040
In 2017,
the European Court of Human Rights
478
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,320
issued fines
for poor conditions in Craiova.
479
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:27,120
So, when I ask to look inside a cell,
the guards are understandably nervous.
480
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,000
What they're trying to do
is show me a cell that's perfect.
481
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,480
They just opened up one cell.
482
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,280
They didn't like something in there.
They didn't want me to see.
483
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,200
I'm starting to see
how the guards are trying to manage
484
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,440
what I see and don't see,
what I hear and what I don't hear.
485
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,280
Finally, the guards find a cell
they're prepared to show me.
486
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,200
With basic amenities squeezed alongside
a tiny sleeping area,
487
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,720
it reminds me of my
solitary confinement cell back in Britain.
488
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,480
But here, three men must spend
most of their time on their beds
489
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,840
for up to 23 hours a day.
490
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,600
This is harsh.
491
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,520
It's hard to convey how a human being
492
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,280
can be kept inside such a confined space
for so many years.
493
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,880
It's hard enough
when you do it on your own,
494
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,800
but to do it with somebody else?
495
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,520
There's just so many things
that could trigger
496
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,120
among these very violent prisoners.
497
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:36,840
You need to feel this space
to understand how oppressive it is.
498
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,640
Even the hardest man
will find it difficult to cope with this.
499
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,640
Marius Burican has been locked up
in one of these tiny cells for two years.
500
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,640
At only 23 years old,
he's serving a life sentence.
501
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,840
While not a Gypsy himself,
he grew up around Roma friends,
502
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,640
and was convicted
for a violent knife crime
503
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,200
as part of a bitter Gypsy feud.
504
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,080
So today, I'm amazed to discover
that his prison job
505
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,320
allows him to work with blades.
506
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,080
-[in Romanian] Hello.
-You Marius?
507
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:19,840
-Hello.
-Nice to meet you. Raphael.
508
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:20,760
Nice to meet you.
509
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,720
So, you're the cellblock barber?
510
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:23,720
Yes.
511
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,360
All right, okay. And how long
have you been cutting inmates' hair?
512
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,720
Almost five months.
513
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,000
And was you a barber outside?
514
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,080
-No.
-No?
515
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,400
They needed a barber in maximum security.
516
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,480
And because of my good behavior,
I was chosen for that role.
517
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,000
Not knowing how to cut hair,
I learned step by step, inside.
518
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,040
How long are you serving?
519
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,320
I was sentenced to 22 years in prison.
520
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,800
What crime did you commit
to be sent to prison for 20 years?
521
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:55,880
Contract killing.
522
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:57,600
A hitman?
523
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:00,560
Who did you kill?
524
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,320
A Gypsy king...
525
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,440
in exchange for a good amount of money
and some gold.
526
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,200
[Rowe] A Gypsy king,
known as a Bulibasha,
527
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,280
is a powerful clan leader.
528
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:13,440
Did you get the money?
529
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:14,400
No.
530
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,880
But you got 20 years.
531
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:16,960
Yes.
532
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:18,240
[Rowe] And you smile.
533
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,280
Marius's cellmate, Alex, was the middleman
for the contract killing.
534
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,600
How did you kill the person?
535
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,240
Stabbing.
536
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,080
I had a machete with a 50 cm blade.
537
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,520
I cut their electricity.
538
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,160
He was sleeping in bed with his wife.
539
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,240
It was dark. Pitch black.
540
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,760
Finally, I found him
541
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,720
and hit him with the machete
around the neck.
542
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:59,040
I cut his throat, cut open
his internal organs and his hand.
543
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,000
You took someone's life.
544
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,320
And you have the faces of guys
that don't know what they've done.
545
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,120
Especially you, Alex.
The way you look at me,
546
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:16,360
you still seem quite shell-shocked
by the fact that you're doing 20 years.
547
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,800
[in Romanian] Maybe those sentencing us
should have taken into account
548
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,880
that we didn't know what we were doing.
549
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,000
We even took the whole thing as a joke,
in the beginning.
550
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,440
So, what's the consequence
of killing a Gypsy leader?
551
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,720
Is there no comeback?
No threat to your lives?
552
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,440
So what if it upsets them?
553
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,120
There's nothing they can do.
554
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,120
I mean, what are they gonna do?
555
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,520
Come and what?
Say that we killed their leader?
556
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,720
Kill us? What can they do?
557
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,240
[Rowe] Marius and Alex seem strangely
matter-of-fact about their crime.
558
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:56,400
But from what I've heard
559
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,280
about the Gypsy culture of revenge
and bloody vendettas,
560
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,720
they may have to watch their backs.
561
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,240
This prison is full of Gypsies.
562
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,880
If these young adults...
563
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,600
are the target of Gypsies
564
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:14,960
who want revenge
for the murder they committed...
565
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,800
They killed a Gypsy king.
566
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,440
...this is the place it's gonna happen.
567
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,840
6:00 a.m., and it's a new day
for the prisoners in medium security.
568
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,840
But for Armand, this is no ordinary day.
569
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,320
-So, it's visits day today.
-Yeah, today is visit day.
570
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,239
-Who are you expecting--
-Family.
571
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,120
-Your family?
-Yeah, my wife and children.
572
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,440
-So, you've got to spruce yourself up?
-Yeah.
573
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,000
[Rowe] I know, from my own experience,
574
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,520
just how important
visiting days are for inmates.
575
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,600
So, it's no surprise
that Armand's keen to look his best.
576
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,080
Armand's wife, Ancuța, has brought
two of their five children to visit.
577
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,680
[in Romanian] Come.
Come to Daddy. Come to me.
578
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,760
[Rowe] His daughter, Giovana,
and youngest son, Ianis.
579
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,600
Ianis was conceived
during a conjugal visit,
580
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:23,120
and Armand has never spent time
with his son outside the prison walls.
581
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,800
For Ancuța, days like today
bring mixed emotions.
582
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,640
What does coming to visit Armand
mean to you?
583
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,160
[in Romanian] We get very happy,
and then we go home and get sad.
584
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,240
[Rowe] When I was talking to Armand
about how he was feeling before the visit,
585
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,440
he described butterflies in his tummy.
586
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,320
[laughing]
587
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:53,480
I think I feel the same.
588
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,840
I get the impression
that you can't quite believe
589
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,480
that he has these butterflies feelings,
590
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,440
that you're probably learning more
about his emotions now
591
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,120
than you have for a long time. Am I right?
592
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,800
Yes, I'm very surprised.
593
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:10,880
[laughing]
594
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,120
Armand has been away for three years.
595
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,400
So, he's not been a part
of your outside family life.
596
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,760
How do you cope without him being there?
597
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,720
It's difficult. It's very difficult.
598
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,200
With the children, the house, everything.
599
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,080
What can I say? It's very hard.
600
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,720
Very hard at home without him.
To not see him, not have him at home.
601
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,280
Do you blame Armand for that?
For getting himself in trouble?
602
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,160
That's how it was meant to be.
603
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:48,200
[speaks indistinctly]
604
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,200
If you don't mind me saying,
there is a sadness.
605
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,440
I can see a sadness in you.
606
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,400
How do you...
607
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,640
[Armand in English] She's crying.
608
00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:00,680
[Rowe] That's okay.
I feel like I need to cry, too.
609
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,080
It's sad to sit here and see this.
It's sad.
610
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,640
-Are you okay, Armand?
-Yeah.
611
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:09,960
[Ianis speaks indistinctly]
612
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,440
[Rowe] I can see it's hard for Armand
to be separated from his family.
613
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,320
But I'm curious to know if it'll be enough
to stop him reoffending.
614
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,120
Armand has not shown any remorse
for the crime he's committed.
615
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:32,760
I suppose he's typical
of the type of prisoner I'm interested in,
616
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,640
whether they will ever come back again.
Is this the final time?
617
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:40,880
Is ten years enough to make him realize
what he's giving up?
618
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,720
So, that's what
I want to find out from him.
619
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,040
After the visit,
Armand attends an arts and crafts class,
620
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,720
where he's making
a wooden model of his house.
621
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,400
-Thanks for letting me come on the visit.
-Pleasure.
622
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,600
It was quite...
For me, it was quite distressing.
623
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,960
And your wife was very distressed,
you know,
624
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,120
even though she has been to visit you
over the last three years.
625
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,600
I was really taken aback
by how emotional she felt seeing you,
626
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:09,640
-and talking to me.
-Yes.
627
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,760
Every time, when she comes to visit me,
it's like this.
628
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,840
And I suppose the biggest problem,
and she made this clear,
629
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,600
was bringing up five kids
on her own, at home, is not easy.
630
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,040
It's not easy for her, yeah,
but it's okay.
631
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,920
It's not okay.
You know, it must be really difficult.
632
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,000
I don't know your situation,
633
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,200
but I just can't imagine
what that must be like for her.
634
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,600
Your offense, what you're in prison for,
635
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,520
the violence your family suffered
and why you needed to take revenge...
636
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,480
Do you feel any remorse and regret?
637
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,480
For doing what you did? Honestly?
638
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,440
[Armand] About this, about my situation,
because I am here,
639
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,000
yes, a little bit, you know?
640
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,200
But for most of the situation, no.
641
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,720
You don't feel regret
for what you did to him,
642
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,720
but you feel sorry for yourself
'cause you're in prison.
643
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,480
-Your circumstances are this.
-Yeah.
644
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,840
-But in terms of... the victim...
-Yeah.
645
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,160
-you couldn't care less.
-Of course.
646
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,600
-That's honest.
-Yeah.
647
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,480
That's honest. And most people, I suppose,
would pretend that they do care,
648
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,720
because it might reduce their sentence
or make people believe.
649
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,080
Why should... I don't like to lie
and things like that.
650
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,880
I'm straight, you know. I get my sentence.
651
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,320
Do you think
this will be the last time for you?
652
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,000
I don't really know.
653
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,960
In the future, I may have
some problem with somebody...
654
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,800
If I must defend myself,
I'm gonna do it again.
655
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,800
[Rowe] It seems like Armand's loyalty
to the macho code of Gypsy culture
656
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,600
means there's a strong chance
he'll reoffend.
657
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,520
He hasn't learned his lesson.
658
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,760
He sees himself as a man's man.
659
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:51,400
He will, at any point, at any time,
defend himself, defend his family.
660
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,800
And if it means taking a gun
and pulling the trigger at another person,
661
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,080
he's prepared to do that.
662
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,400
I think he's pretty typical of those
that go out
663
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:00,760
and end up coming straight back.
664
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,520
If Armand does continue his life of crime,
he won't be alone.
665
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:12,560
Once released, over 70%
of all prisoners in Romania reoffend.
666
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,520
To find out why, I've come to meet
prison governor Marin Calota.
667
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,840
How many prisoners that are released
end up coming back to prison?
668
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,240
[in Romanian] I can't
give you a percentage,
669
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,320
but the rate of recidivism
is relatively high.
670
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:30,360
Why is that?
671
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,160
Prisoners end up in jail
672
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:34,880
because they don't know
the rules of society.
673
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,280
And they lack the education
to understand those social rules.
674
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:47,240
Romanian society offers
access to education for all.
675
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:52,200
But if we're talking only about
the persons of Roma ethnicity,
676
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,480
they have a certain culture.
They don't participate.
677
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:56,920
Is it fair to say
678
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,480
that a disproportionate number
of the prisoners here
679
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,080
come from the Gypsy community?
680
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,040
I don't have a record
of Roma Gypsy prisoners,
681
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,440
as it is not a criterion that we use.
682
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:10,960
It's interesting, isn't it?
683
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,720
Because it then follows that maybe
that is something you should have,
684
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:20,040
because, without it, how can you tailor
rehabilitation programs for prisoners?
685
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,880
Yes, but at the same time,
686
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,960
it might create discrimination between
the Romanian and Gypsy Roma prisoners,
687
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,280
which currently does not exist.
688
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,560
[Rowe] The governor believes
that gathering statistics
689
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,680
on the number of Gypsy inmates
would fuel prejudice.
690
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,800
Yet this apparently even-handed position
is also a form of willful blindness.
691
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,920
As long as the authorities
don't acknowledge the problem,
692
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,520
they don't have to do anything about it.
693
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,360
All the same, there's one way
694
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,720
the prison is trying to help
its Gypsy inmates.
695
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,200
And on my last day in Craiova,
I'm on my way to see how it works.
696
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,280
This school teacher
usually teaches ten-year-olds.
697
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,160
But today, her pupils aren't children.
698
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,960
They're some of Romania's
most violent criminals.
699
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,640
[in Romanian] Exercises of addition
and subtraction.
700
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,360
[Rowe] And it turns out
that one of her star students is Gulie.
701
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:26,840
That handwriting is better than mine.
702
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,760
That's very neat handwriting.
703
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,720
I do what I can.
704
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:38,520
[Rowe] In Romania, only 7% of Gypsies
complete secondary education.
705
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,480
School is viewed as gadje,
a non-Gypsy institution
706
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,680
that threatens
the traditional Roma way of life.
707
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,080
What was your level of reading
on the outside?
708
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,720
I can read, but I'm a bit slow.
709
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,360
You need to learn when you're young.
It's more difficult when you're grown up.
710
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,200
[Rowe] For Gulie, it's the first time
he's ever learned even basic math.
711
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,680
Do you understand the answer?
712
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,480
Hard. It's a bit too hard.
713
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:10,720
[speaking Romanian]
714
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,360
It looks simple enough
for somebody who understands it,
715
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,280
but I can imagine
how challenging it must be
716
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,480
if you've never done this simple addition.
717
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,880
First pupil, Raphael.
718
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,280
Please come to the blackboard.
719
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,360
-You want me to come up?
-[teacher in English] Yes.
720
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:27,760
-Come to the table, yes?
-Yes.
721
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,680
This is where I'm under a lot of pressure.
Okay. What if I get it wrong?
722
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:37,840
Okay. Thank you.
723
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,760
For me, trying to solve
a math problem in Romanian
724
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,520
is a serious challenge.
725
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,600
[teacher speaking Romanian]
726
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,640
Minus 124 cars...
727
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:54,400
[laughing]
728
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,240
Maybe I can get Gulie to come and help me.
729
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:57,600
-Gulie, please.
-[teacher] Gulie?
730
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,520
[speaking Romanian]
731
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,400
-Raphael?
-Yeah.
732
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,680
[Rowe] With a little help from Gulie,
we finally get to some kind of answer.
733
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,360
-[Gulie laughs]
-[all speaking indistinctly]
734
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,880
[Rowe] Seeing Gulie's enthusiasm
for learning
735
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,400
reveals an unexpected side
to this killer's personality.
736
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,720
There are days when I am upset
and don't want to think about anything.
737
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,680
But here, I write best.
738
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,080
I'm focused on learning.
739
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,160
Yes, it changed. The mentality changed.
My mind changed.
740
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:31,320
I think differently now.
741
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,240
[Rowe] Only a handful of Gypsy inmates
are enrolled
742
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,360
in the prison's education scheme.
743
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,600
But for those who are,
it's a chance to break free
744
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,560
from some
of the traditional Gypsy attitudes
745
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,000
that helped to put them in prison
in the first place.
746
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,240
It's the first sign I've seen
that prisoners here
747
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,560
have at least some hope of rehabilitation.
748
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,960
And Gulie, who is a murderer, you know...
Um, you can't help but think,
749
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,840
had they been given
the chance of education
750
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,080
before they ended up in prison
in an education class,
751
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,960
would it have made
a difference to their lives
752
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,200
and the lives of victims
and society as a whole?
753
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,520
During my time in Craiova,
754
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,520
I've glimpsed the dark underbelly
of Romanian society.
755
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,840
It's a place where fresh-faced teens
kill for money,
756
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,360
where Roma blood feuds
lead to brutal vendettas,
757
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,800
and where racial prejudice
drives lethal violence.
758
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,600
The prison is making an effort
759
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,920
to prepare prisoners
for life on the outside.
760
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,640
Yet it seems that many
from the most excluded communities
761
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:46,680
are unwilling to reform.
762
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:51,080
Addressing this challenge
will take far wider social change
763
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,120
than this prison
can ever achieve on its own.
764
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,120
My time inside
one of Romania's toughest prisons
765
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,000
has finally come to an end.
766
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:07,360
But until this country's centuries' old
social divisions are healed,
767
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,480
this place has gotta live
with a chilling statistic.
768
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,040
Trapped in a cycle of crime,
769
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,920
a disproportionate number of Gypsy people
released from these gates
770
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,960
will, in just a short time,
end up straight back in prison.
771
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,680
[dramatic music playing]