[Raphael Rowe] Zenica Prison, Bosnia and Herzegovina.
A decaying former communist maximum security prison.
Have you shot many people?
Yes.
[in Bosnian] Many. It doesn't bother me.
[Rowe in English] In a country riddled with mafia and organized crime,
this prison holds a chilly mix of extremely dangerous men.
[in Bosnian] I loved to fight. It was in my blood.
[Rowe in English] From arms dealers to crime bosses and brutal killers.
[in Bosnian] I am, in a way, a killer, but we have hearts too.
[Rowe in English] I'm going to spend a week
locked up inside this 130-year-old prison, but it's not my first time behind bars.
My name is Raphael Rowe.
I was convicted in the UK of a murder I didn't commit
and sentenced to life with no parole.
It took me 12 long years to clear my name.
Now I'm traveling the globe
to discover what life is really like inside the world's toughest prisons.
[lock clicks]
Bosnia, Central Europe.
Less than 30 years ago, this place was a major war zone.
Everywhere you go here in Bosnia,
there is a-- a constant reminder of the terrible conflict
that took place here, like these bullet holes from sniper gunfire.
[gunfire]
After the collapse of the socialist state of Yugoslavia,
Bosnia declared independence,
but then a brutal conflict broke out,
drawing in combatants from across the region.
-[explosion] -[woman screaming]
[Rowe] Over 200,000 were killed in fighting,
massacred or ethnically cleansed.
Two million fled the country.
But the chaotic aftermath of war
meant mafia-style groups moved in.
After the war came poverty and instability,
where organized criminal networks were allowed to flourish,
and that's led to one of Europe's biggest problems
around gunrunning, drugs and people trafficking.
Today, Bosnia ranks close to Russia
as one of Europe's worst countries for organized crime.
If they're caught,
many of these dangerous criminals get sent to Zenica Prison.
And that's where I'll be spending the next week.
War devastates lives.
It breeds brutality and serious criminality.
The prison I'm heading to in Bosnia
is where they keep some of the biggest organized criminals locked up.
These are people who are known
for their extreme violence and intimidation,
and I don't know what to expect when I get there,
and it won't be long now.
Maximum security Zenica Prison has a fearsome reputation.
After the Bosnian War,
there were widespread human rights violations
and even torture here.
So, I hope they'll treat me right.
[officer in Bosnian] Turn to the wall. Raise your hands.
We will conduct a pat-down search
in case you have anything forbidden with you.
Okay, put your hands down. Turn to me.
We can go in now.
You have to be naked for this search.
Open your mouth.
Tongue up and down.
Look to the left. To the right.
Take off your underwear.
[Rowe in English] I've been subjected to a lot of prison strip searches,
and this is one of the more humiliating.
[officer in Bosnian] Slightly lift up your genitals.
-[Rowe grunts] -[officer] Okay. Okay. Turn around.
-[Rowe grunts] -Squat.
-Cough. -[Rowe coughs]
[officer] Good.
Go in there.
Stop by the wall.
[Rowe in English] What a thorough process that was.
I mean, stripped me naked, looked under my bollocks,
made me squat and cough.
They really are thorough, um, in terms of making sure
that the prisoners who come into this prison
don't have any contraband on them.
[officer in Bosnian] Stop. Stay.
Put on the trousers and shirt. Okay.
[Rowe in English] Forcing prisoners to wear a uniform
is one way of showing you have to conform to the rules here.
Not the warmest clothes. Uh, at least I got a uniform.
[officer in Bosnian] Come with me.
[officers chattering]
[Rowe in English] The buildings,
there's one or two that look like they're new,
but for the most part,
this place is broken.
I'm now on my way to a cellblock, where I'm gonna meet my cellmates
for the very first time.
My heart is racing.
[officer speaks Bosnian]
[chattering]
[Rowe] This wing houses many violent men and those convicted of arms,
drugs and people trafficking.
[officer in Bosnian] This is the new one.
[Rowe in English] I could be sharing a cell with mafia bosses or murderers.
[chattering]
[prisoner in Bosnian] Remove your shoes.
Come in.
[Rowe in English] Okay. Me?
[prisoner] Yes.
-Elvis. -Elvis. Raphael.
Raphael. [speaks Bosnian]
Nice to meet you.
One, two, three, four, five. Six people in here?
[Elvis] Uh.
-[Rowe] Five. -[Elvis] Yes.
-[prisoner] Five with you. -[Rowe] Four plus me is five.
-Yes, yes. -[Rowe] Okay.
[in Bosnian] Let's make your bed.
Let's make your bed right now.
[in English] Okay.
[in Bosnian] Look. This is how it has to be.
[Rowe in English] Okay.
[Elvis in Bosnian] Hold it there.
[in English] Are you in this cell as well?
Yes, I am.
-[Rowe] My name is Raphael. -Eldin.
[in Bosnian] Don't talk too much while we're making the bed!
Slip it under.
Take it here.
Pillow.
It's done.
[in English] Thank you for helping.
[in Bosnian] Did you bring cigarettes? You smoke?
[in English] No.
[in Bosnian] Did you bring anything?
No.
[Elvis] What type of vest is this?
[in English] What? You like my body warmer?
[in Bosnian] You like me to take it off you?
-[chuckles] -[Elvis] Huh?
[laughing]
[Rowe in English] This isn't the friendliest of welcomes.
[Elvis in Bosnian] Do you enjoy cleaning windows?
-[in English] These windows? -[Elvis] Yeah.
[in Bosnian] Give him that newspaper.
Bring him this bottle.
It has to be kept clean in here.
-[Rowe] Hmm. -Is there a problem? Come on!
-[Rowe in English] Okay. -[Elvis] There.
[Rowe] Hmm.
It feels like you're asking me to do this…
[squeaking]
…not because it needs doing, but just because you wanted me to do it.
[Elvis in Bosnian] You need to do as you are told.
Because this is prison.
Not kindergarten.
[in English] No, of course.
And are all the other cells along this corridor the same as this cell?
[in Bosnian] Don't wave your hands around when you're talking to me.
[in English] Oh, right. It's just, um, when I talk, I get animated.
[in Bosnian] But I don't allow that in front of me.
[in English] What are you here for?
[in Bosnian] For murder and organized crime.
[in English] So are you an organized crime boss?
[Elvis] Yes.
-[laughs] -You like that title?
You seem to smile about that fact.
Finally, one of my other cellmates comes to my rescue.
If it's easier for you to talk to me since I speak English,
then step over here and talk to me.
-[Rowe] Sorry, I didn't get your name. -Eldin.
-[Rowe] Eldin. -Eldin.
-Am I pronouncing that right? Eldin? -[Eldin] Yes.
Eldin.
[in Bosnian] And this is our cellmate Muharem.
[Rowe in English] Ah, this is another one.
-Hi. -[speaks Bosnian]
-Harem. -Muharem.
Muharem. Muharem. Yes. Nice to meet you too.
What-- what are you here for?
Fraud, money laundering and dealing in arms and weapons.
And I started working for EUPM, which is European police.
Three and a half weeks before I was supposed to get married,
a drunk driver killed my wife
and turned my whole life around.
I didn't wanna be in a police force anymore.
I wanted to become a criminal. I wanted to gamble.
I wanted to steal weapons, sell weapons.
And that's why I ended up in here.
Is this your first time in prison?
No, it's not. I served in 2011 also.
[Rowe] How long?
A year and a half. For carrying a gun.
It was an automatic Uzi handgun.
Why'd you carry an automatic Uzi?
I really don't have an explanation for that.
[Rowe] Hmm.
Eldin offers to show me around.
This is the main room where everybody smokes in.
We play chess. We read the newspaper.
-We get a newspaper every single day. -Okay.
[Eldin] And the bathroom's right here.
[Rowe] I can smell that. You're probably immune to the smell.
-[Eldin] This is the shower. -Okay.
These are the toilets right here.
[Rowe] Okay.
You can't smell it, but I can. It's quite a strong smell in here.
[Eldin] It is a really strong smell, because the hole in the walls
and the water comes down. We can't do nothing about it.
It's an old building. It's been here a long time.
Four sinks with water.
-[Rowe] You have hot water and cold water. -[Eldin] We have hot water every day.
[Rowe] Yeah, and whose responsibility is it to keep this tidy?
[Eldin] Every single day, there's a different person.
[Rowe] No amount of cleaning is gonna get this place nice.
It's straight out of the 19th century.
How often do you get to go outside on exercise?
[Eldin] You get two hours for walking around.
-Two hours to train, to go to the gym. -[Rowe] Okay.
[Eldin] Once in the morning.
-Once in the afternoon. -[Rowe] Okay.
But surprisingly, within this section of the prison,
even violent criminals don't have their cell doors locked at night.
They can move freely within this area.
That's the only door that's locked.
[Rowe] So, at seven o'clock when they lock that door,
you guys are just left to your own devices?
Yes.
That's a pretty relaxed regime, isn't it?
I'm-- I'm not feeling the bang-up here. I'm not feeling the kind of lockdown.
There's gotta be good trust between you all.
You know what people think.
-They think, "Prisoners, dangerous." -Right.
"Ruthless, violent."
"How can they be given that much space? Surely, they're fighting all the time."
[Eldin] I'm not saying that doesn't happen.
-People get into a fight. -[Rowe] Of course.
Last month, I got into a fight, and I got put to segregation for 15 days.
What was that about?
It was stupid. It was over a remote control and a TV.
And you lost 15 days in segregation.
Yes.
[Rowe] Back in the cell,
I'm keen to try and get on a better footing
with my intimidating cellmate Elvis,
so we sit down to have a chat.
This is not your first time inside.
[in Bosnian] No.
Fourth.
-[Rowe in English] Four times? -[Elvis] Yes.
So how many years in your life altogether have you spent in prison?
Oh, shit.
[in Bosnian] Approximately 13 years.
[in English] As somebody who's bossed an organized criminal network,
what sort of things did you lead them to do?
[in Bosnian] Robberies, grievous bodily harm.
Many things.
If I was asked to set three cars on fire,
then I would send two or three guys to get it done.
It's a transaction.
If someone bothers you, you want me to hurt him,
to set his car, house on fire,
simply to destroy him.
[in English] Did you make a lot of money from the crime?
[Elvis in Bosnian] I had a lot of stuff.
Money, good cars,
a lot of weapons, a lot of drugs.
A lot of women around me.
[in English] Have you shot many people?
[in Bosnian] Many.
-[in English] Many? -[Elvis] Yes.
[laughs]
Why do you find that funny?
[chuckles]
[in Bosnian] It's funny because it's nothing unusual for me.
It doesn't bother me.
[Rowe in English] Do you regret anything that you've ever done?
[Elvis in Bosnian] Am I sorry?
[sighs]
I am. One time a murder happened during a robbery.
That man shouldn't have been killed. I feel very sorry for that man.
[chattering]
[Rowe in English] When I first went into this cell, I didn't know what to expect.
But meeting Elvis and my other cellmates was quite intimidating.
He's a former crime boss, and he's used to controlling, manipulating people.
He just seemed unstable.
There were times when I thought he was just gonna jump at me,
and I'm thinking, if he goes for my throat,
I could hit him with my right hand and hit him.
That's the mentality of surviving in prison,
when you don't know the characters that you're dealing with.
As I'm discovering,
many of the prisoners here are veterans of violent mafia-style crime.
I want to find out if this prison is doing anything
to really change these hardened criminals.
It's my first morning at Zenica Prison.
Elvis left for his prison job at 5:00 a.m.,
so I'm left in the company of Eldin and Muharem.
[siren wailing]
[in Bosnian] Report.
-[in English] That's the roll call? -[Eldin] Yes.
[Rowe] At 7:30 each day,
the alarm sounds, and there's a swift roll call.
[guard speaking Bosnian]
-[Eldin] It's over. -[Rowe] That's it?
[Eldin] Yeah, it's over.
[Rowe] It didn't even look like he counted.
There's certain people that went to work at five o'clock in the morning.
-He's got 'em crossed off. -Yeah.
So he exactly knows how many people are inside here
and who's at work and who's somewhere else.
Are you working? Do you go to work today?
No, I can't go to work. I already told you.
I got into fight two weeks ago.
-[Rowe] Oh, so you're on punishment. -I'm on punishment. I'm C group.
Oh, right. So, you're in the lower category.
I have to wait four months until I can start working
or I can start doing anything positive again.
-[Rowe] Really? Four month-- -Yes.
-[Rowe] That's your sentence, four months. -That's my punishment.
-[Rowe] Loss of privilege for fighting. -Yes, and 15 days that I did in solitary.
[Rowe] I know from bitter experience
that 15 days in solitary is tough.
It seems that if you break the rules here,
the punishment is immediate and severe.
But as a new prisoner, my slate's clean, and I have full privileges.
-So I'm able to work. -[officer speaks Bosnian]
-In here? -[officer] Yes.
[Rowe] I'm reporting to the kitchen for duty.
-You want me to do that? -[cook] Like this from all sides.
-Okay. Oh, you speak English as well? -Yes.
[Rowe] All right, okay.
-Did you make this? -[cook] Yes, yes.
Like this, see?
That will be faster.
[Rowe] Oh, right, okay.
Okay. 'Cause we'll get blamed…
I'm not too pleased to spot my cellmate Elvis,
the former crime boss.
[Elvis in Bosnian] You are not doing it right. You should do it like this.
[Rowe in English] He told me the other way. You're telling me to do it that way.
[Elvis in Bosnian] Like this.
[in English] Uh, make your mind up, guys.
Elvis is already seven years into a 20-year sentence.
Despite his aura of menace,
he does at least seem to have become a hard worker here,
and today, he's also a bit more friendly.
[in Bosnian] Let's empty these. Bring that one.
[Rowe in English] I'll take the lightest one.
[in Bosnian] Bring the other one too.
[in English] Here I was thinking I was doing the light work,
and now you're making me do the heavy work.
Damn, it's heavy.
So, you've been down here since five o'clock this morning?
[in Bosnian] Yes, I'm here from five to 12.
[Rowe in English] Do you get paid for working here?
-[Elvis] Yes. -[Rowe] Oh.
[Elvis in Bosnian] I get 100 euros monthly.
This salary is enough for a prisoner to live decently in here.
We can buy, uh, fruits,
uh, toothpaste, and all the other things we need.
[Rowe in English] Why do you like to come here and work?
[Elvis in Bosnian] I want to learn how to become a chef.
[Rowe in English] Ah, why?
[in Bosnian] Well, maybe I could become a chef when I get out.
[in English] That's quite a big change from your lifestyle.
[Elvis in Bosnian] Yes, I'll try that. If it works, it works.
[Rowe in English] I thought I'd find you here with your feet up
telling somebody else what to do,
but you've surprised me that you are putting in a good shift here, Elvis.
[in Bosnian] I think differently now than how I used to think.
I have a healthier mind and thinking.
I got into the work habit here, since I never had an honest job before.
I've changed a lot. I'm not the same person anymore.
[in English] Not only have I learned a lot about how it works down here,
but I think I also learned a lot about Elvis.
It's fascinating.
He believes doing this has changed his personality, his character.
But there is another side to Elvis,
this menacing aura that I feel in his presence.
But he is working hard.
It's inspiring him. And for me, that's a positive.
My shift in the kitchen is done.
I'm told that prisoners like me, whose behavior record is on track,
get to enjoy time out in the open air.
Every day, we get a little bit of exercise,
and that's where I'm going now.
We've got basketball court, football pitch.
They've got a caged weights room
with what looks like some real old rusty weights.
It's all a bit old,
but it's a great deal better than nothing.
What I am impressed by is that there is an incentive for prisoners to behave,
whether it's working in the kitchen or-- or being able to go to the gym.
Well, it looks to me like they're trying to do something
that offers some change in the individuals that end up in here.
It's my third day at Zenica Prison, Bosnia.
I'd like to find my more welcoming cellmate Eldin,
but he's nowhere to be seen.
[officer in Bosnian] Let's go around. Come on.
[Rowe in English] One of the guards informs me where I'll be able to find him.
A few days after meeting Eldin,
he's gone and got himself in trouble again.
Strikes me as that kind of character.
He's been placed in isolation.
It seems you get given plenty of freedom here if you behave,
but now I'm going to see what happens if you don't.
[Rowe] How you doing?
What happened, man? How come you've ended up in here?
[Eldin] The CO told me to go back to my room,
and I disobeyed a direct order
and told him that I'm not going back to my room.
I got into an argument with him,
so he put the cuffs on me and brought me to segregation.
I have a big mouth. I like to talk a lot.
My mouth is faster than my thought.
This is the 14th time I've been in segregation in six years.
[Rowe] Eldin's mouth has landed him another 15 days on his own.
And this is quite a stark cell, isn't it?
I mean, you've got a table and a chair, a bit of slab concrete with a mattress on.
[Eldin] This is all I have. I got two pillows.
I got two blankets and a mattress.
No cigarettes. Nothing. You can eat.
No newspaper. There's nothing you can do.
Twenty-three hours, you're inside of here,
and then one hour, you get to go walk outside.
Given that you've been here 14 times, it's obviously not working.
It's not working on you.
It pretty much makes you go insane. I'm not gonna lie to you.
It makes me worse. It makes me more angry.
It gets me pissed off, and I'm angry at everybody
when I get out of here,
and then I continue to do stupid things to end up here in segregation.
You can lock me up in a room and throw the key away,
and I'll be good for maybe 15, 20 days a month,
and then something in my head clicks over back again,
and I'm back again to behaving the way that I was before.
Would-- would you say that your behavior is borne out of a mental health issue?
I've been through the war.
I was inside of a house as a nine-year-old kid
when people came with automatic weapons, took my dad to a concentration camp,
took me to a concentration camp.
It had a lot of effect on my childhood and everything.
I don't wanna use that as an excuse.
I can't keep on doing stuff wrong. I keep on-- keep on blaming it on that.
People had worse things happen to them.
Somebody's whole family got killed inside a war.
I was just trying to get you to understand what made me flip…
I understand.
…from a positive person to a negative person.
I understand.
Well, I hope this is the start of you seeing things differently.
-[Eldin] No problem. -You know?
-[Eldin] Have a good day. -You too. Take care.
[Eldin] Yeah, I will.
[Rowe] For someone who's been through as much trauma as Eldin,
I'm not sure solitary confinement is the answer.
I can't stress enough how damaging that must be for individuals
when they spend days and days and days in that space on their own.
I spent many, many, many months myself in isolation like that.
It doesn't work to change an individual.
It sometimes makes you angrier and more frustrated.
That's what he says he goes through.
[Eldin sighs]
[Rowe] I want to know how the guards justify the tough side of this regime.
Boris Soko has worked here for 15 years.
I've been to a more relaxed environment.
I've been to the very confined space where they're being punished.
What-- what does that serve? What's the purpose?
[in Bosnian] Trust me, the purpose of this arrangement,
the areas that we isolate prisoners who constantly disobey
the rules and regulations,
is that while in there, the prisoners can learn that only their own behavior,
good behavior,
will result in improvements and rewards.
They have to learn and understand this lesson on their own,
during their time in here.
[Rowe] Have things changed significantly in the time that you became a guard?
[in Bosnian] Uh, I can say that for the prisoners,
it is much easier now to serve their sentences.
Whereas it is harder for us as guards to work.
It's a collective effort to help the prisoners
who have committed crimes on the outside
to rehabilitate during their time here
and become ordinary law-abiding citizens who will obey society's rules.
[Rowe in English] Maybe you can justify a very tough carrot-and-stick approach
if it's really changing prisoners for the better.
But the sort of hardened mafia and repeat offenders they have here
aren't easy to reform.
At mealtime the next day, I find my cellmate, gang boss Elvis.
Now that we're on better terms, I'm joining him for lunch.
Does everybody get the same, or can they pick what they want?
[in Bosnian] You can choose.
[in English] These metal trays don't exist in very many places anymore.
They're such a dangerous weapon, but they have such--
such trust amongst the prisoners here
that they're still prepared to issue one of these trays.
I haven't seen one of these since my own time in prison.
I wanna know what turned Elvis into a gangster in the first place.
Ah! This is…?
-[Elvis] Brother. -[Rowe] Oh, your brother.
-[Elvis] Yes. -[Rowe] Hello.
-Hello. -[Rowe] Nice to meet you.
-[chuckles] -My name is Sami.
-[Rowe] Sami. -[Sami] Mm-hmm.
[Rowe] Elvis and his elder brother Sami were both involved in organized crime.
I'm trying to look at the resemblance.
[splutters] But he's the better looking one, right?
[Elvis chattering]
[Rowe] They're both serving long sentences for armed robbery and murder.
So, tell me a little bit about where you come from then.
What was your childhood like?
[Sami in Bosnian] We had a bad, poor childhood.
[Elvis] Poor childhood.
Our dad is a member of the army of Bosnia and Herzegovina,
and he was left disabled.
[in English] What do you say was the reason
behind your becoming involved in criminality?
[in Bosnian] The poverty, mostly.
Because the country was at war.
Our dad couldn't afford all the things that a young boy or teenager needs.
So, we decided to go it alone and chose this path.
We lost our way, and to this day, there are consequences we regret.
[Elvis] Going to eat those sausages?
-[in English] No, no, no. -Yes.
[Rowe] I thought you were looking at me in a very nice way,
but you were just after my food.
[Elvis in Bosnian] Do you drink coffee?
-[in English] Coffee? Yeah. -[Elvis] Yes.
Okay, we'll go.
[in Bosnian] Let's go have a coffee.
[Rowe in English] Hot.
[in Bosnian] You can't stop just anywhere to drink coffee.
Normally everybody has his spot for drinking coffee, for eating, etcetera.
[in English] When you say spots, you mean this is your corner to have coffee?
Yes.
[in Bosnian] We drink coffee here.
[Rowe in English] You were saying
that you-- you started getting involved in organized crime.
Help me understand what-- what that means.
[in Bosnian] After the war, many things were available,
such as weapons, just like today.
Today you can also find weapons, all kinds of weapons as a bargain,
as a present.
-We each formed criminal groups. -Yes.
On his side and my side.
We scared them so they would work for us.
Day after day, "I want this. I want that."
And day by day, you are in it deeper and deeper and deeper.
It was never enough. Here, it's called greed.
[Rowe in English] And how much has prison changed you, Sami?
[in Bosnian] Really a lot. I used to act impulsively,
but I've started thinking differently now, that actions have consequences.
Before, I loved to fight. It was in my blood.
Now I know that each fight means a punishment.
So now I think about things before I do anything.
[Rowe in English] Two very interesting, open characters.
Their life, to some extent, is a legacy of the war that took place here,
because they were able to access weapons,
and then they used those weapons to commit robberies.
The time that they've been in prison has been a time of reflection,
and they now say that they are--
they are not the men that people used to fear.
The ultimate reward for good behavior at Zenica
is to be transferred to a part of the prison
that isn't much like a prison at all,
and that's where I'm heading this morning.
Some people would describe it as-- as open conditions.
You can see cars, you know, pedestrians
and people's residential homes from-- from this part of the prison.
There is still a connection with the outside world.
You get to live under this open regime if you followed the rules
and you're soon to be released.
That makes it the perfect place
to judge whether the prison really is changing prisoners for good.
-Hey. -[man speaks Bosnian]
Hello.
Oh, hello.
Hello. I'm Raphael.
-And your name is? -[man] Mirza.
Mirza. So, this is the gymnasium?
Anyone can use this gymnasium?
[Mirza in Bosnian] All of us here can use the gym.
[Rowe in English] Oh. Come.
[in Bosnian] You and I?
If you lose, you'll have to pay for the coffee.
[Rowe in English] Mirza was a member of a mafia-type crime organization
and was convicted of a string of offenses,
but he's soon due for release back onto the streets.
This is good. This is nice and relaxing.
[in Bosnian] Everybody's having a nice time here.
Here it is clean and tidy. Those guys are all good guys here.
They are into sports. They train, work and have their families.
It's like a paradise in here.
[in English] Oh. How do you earn your place here?
[in Bosnian] By behaving nicely. By working.
This is the best place, but you have to have a brain to end up here.
In prison, you have to fight.
But over time, a man improves and realizes it is better to be here
than over there in solitary, and then he calms down.
[chattering]
[in English] If you finish your workout, can I see where you sleep?
-Where your cell is? -Okay, no problem.
[Rowe] Show me.
[in Bosnian] Let me get changed.
[in English, chuckles] He's a big guy.
But I-I don't feel intimidated. He-- he seems quite friendly.
Okay.
-[Mirza in Bosnian] Come this way. -[Rowe] Oh.
How is it going? My new roommate is here.
[Rowe in English] Mm-mm. It's a nice view, right?
[Mirza] Yeah.
[Rowe] Okay. Thank you.
[Mirza] VIP! VIP!
[Rowe] VIP! V-I-P.
[Mirza] Here.
Ah, very, very interesting.
So, there's two of you? One, two people sleep in this room?
[in Bosnian] I had a roommate with me
until he made one mistake, so he was kicked out from here.
[Rowe in English] Prisoners are still closely monitored in this wing
and mustn't put a foot wrong if they want to stay here.
Mirza has been careful to follow the letter of the law,
but has he changed for real?
Tell me a little bit about the privileges.
[in Bosnian] Well, you get, for example,
for one month, you can get five days out
to see if you are ready for them to let you out.
That is a big privilege.
After these five days, I do my best to not make any dumb moves.
[in English] And tell me about the crime that you're in prison for.
-Was you involved in drugs, robberies? -No, drug, no.
[in Bosnian] Never with drugs.
[spits] No drugs.
[Rowe in English] No drugs. So racketeering.
[in English] Some racketeering.
You protect people so no one touches them.
When they reject, they do not want, and then you do whatever you can
to make him take the offer.
Many of these deeds,
some I've been sentenced for. Some I have not.
So, I am who I am.
But can I tell you what helped me the most in prison?
This is what can help.
[Rowe in English] The Koran.
[in Bosnian] Dear Allah, Koran, Islam.
Now, when I get out, I'm going to Europe
because Bosnia is poor.
There is no money here.
Europe is full of money, so there will be more money for me.
[in English] And what will you do to make that money?
[in Bosnian] Well, the same way as before.
That's how life is. That's how I choose to do it and how I will continue.
I will never change.
[in English] Why-- why would you admit that to me?
[in Bosnian] Well, because I'm honest. I'm not like all other cowards.
I am a person from the streets.
Prison did not change me. It can only make me worse.
[Rowe in English] He was a bit of a roller coaster of a character.
He says that when he goes out, he's going back to the same lifestyle.
I mean, you can give someone all the rehabilitation programs you want.
Until they're ready to change, they're not gonna change.
It's my last day at Zenica Prison.
[chattering]
[Rowe] There are many killers here, but before I leave,
I've been invited to meet perhaps their most notorious prisoner.
I'm being led to one of the more restricted parts of the prison,
where prisoners who, um…
Prisoners are kept for either their own protection
or for the protection of other prisoners.
The man I'm about to meet
is deemed very dangerous,
and I'm told he's committed some horrific crimes,
so I'm feeling a little bit apprehensive.
Hello.
Jasminko?
[in Bosnian] Yes.
[in English] Yeah? Raphael.
[in Bosnian] Nice to meet you.
[Rowe in English] Jasminko Jašarević was given one of the longest sentences
ever handed out by a Bosnian court.
You don't get sentenced to life in Bosnia, but he was given 42 years.
So far, he's served 16.
What crimes did you commit?
[Jasminko Jašarević in Bosnian] Murders.
One murder took place in the year 2000.
And the other two,
the second took place in 2003 and the third in 2004.
[in English] How many people have you killed?
[in Bosnian] Four.
Two were killed for money.
That is all I can say.
[Rowe in English] Among his crimes was the brutal murder of a 71-year-old woman,
killed in her home for jewelry and cash.
Jašarević's crimes took place years after the Bosnian War.
He even joined the international peacekeeping forces
that were here at the time.
But instead of peacekeeping, he killed again and again for money.
Was the-- the murder you're talking about in 2000
linked to your role as a peacekeeper?
[in Bosnian] This was a man who was…
a war reporter during the war.
I was hired by two people to obtain some footage
and seize it from the person I ended up killing.
[in English] Share with me who-- who Jasminko is,
as opposed to the convicted criminal.
[in Bosnian] I was an official.
Then I chose a criminal path. That was my mistake.
I'm not dangerous. I'm not violent.
I am, in a way, a killer, but we have hearts too.
I am made of flesh and blood, just like you.
[in English] The families of the people that-- that you killed,
the people that loved them,
how do people understand that?
[Jašarević in Bosnian] I did do it.
I know that no one and nothing can compensate
for the family member that has been killed.
Even if they imposed a death penalty on me,
that wouldn't bring back the people I killed.
[in English] You're doing a very long prison sentence.
Do you think you will ever be released from prison?
[in Bosnian] Let's say that
in two or three years, it'll be halfway through my sentence.
I hope I'll be in good health
and that I stay in my right mind
when my freedom comes.
[Rowe in English] A lot of the individuals that I've met,
you can put into context what they've done.
It might be because of the war. It might be because of poverty.
But for a man who kills four people, you can't put that into context.
Maybe he's the kind of person that should never be released.
Before I leave Zenica Prison,
I want to ask the prison governor, Redžo Kahrić,
how much he thinks his regime, part relaxed, part extremely tough,
is really changing criminals for the better.
I'm meeting him in a brand-new section of the prison,
where some of these prisoners will soon be moving.
[in Bosnian] My only goal is to develop trust with prisoners,
and the main role of the prison, the goal we've achieved,
is to transform the prisoners' lives.
When you give somebody trust, believe me,
the majority of the prisoners somehow keep their word better
than most people on the outside, ordinary citizens.
As for the ones who want to create problems and don't respect the rules,
if they don't want to help themselves, then the management can't help them.
[in English] How successful is the prison at reducing re-offending?
In other words, how many prisoners go out and end up coming back into prison?
[in Bosnian] What I have observed is that the majority of prisoners
who get out on parole
are really ashamed to return to prison.
To become honest men and to forget their bad deeds.
That is really hard, but we have more and more prisoners
who are accepting that way of thinking and are moving in a positive direction.
[Rowe in English] When I leave Zenica Prison,
Eldin is still in solitary confinement.
I hope he can somehow break free
from the destructive cycle of behavior he's in.
Elvis and his brother Sami have many more years inside
before they can put the changes they say they've made to the test.
Behind these walls, I've met some of Bosnia's most dangerous criminals.
Trying to motivate them to change their way is not easy,
but I've no doubt that Zenica Prison
is doing the best they can to make a difference.
But given the complex challenges that this country still faces,
there's only so much they can do.
[theme music playing]