1
00:00:31,782 --> 00:00:34,865
J that lovely planet risa &

2
00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:37,867
j I simply can't embrace j

3
00:00:39,081 --> 00:00:41,663
j the glory that is kronos j

4
00:00:41,959 --> 00:00:44,917
j it's mostly for the klingon race j

5
00:00:45,921 --> 00:00:47,582
j but my station in deep space j

6
00:00:47,881 --> 00:00:50,873
j is sadly much too far away j

7
00:00:52,135 --> 00:00:55,172
j I miss the promenade j

8
00:00:55,639 --> 00:01:01,430
j and the busy cargo bays j

9
00:01:03,939 --> 00:01:07,682
j I left my quark &

10
00:01:09,027 --> 00:01:11,769
j and captain sisko j

11
00:01:13,865 --> 00:01:17,449
j nearby a trill

12
00:01:17,744 --> 00:01:21,453
j they call to me j

13
00:01:21,748 --> 00:01:26,583
j but deep space nine is rather far j

14
00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:31,413
j I'm stuck on ferenginar j

15
00:01:31,717 --> 00:01:34,550
j where it never rains, no, no j'

16
00:01:35,470 --> 00:01:38,086
j it only pours j

17
00:01:38,390 --> 00:01:40,255
j miss those dominion wars &

18
00:01:40,559 --> 00:01:44,598
j I miss doc bashir j

19
00:01:44,896 --> 00:01:49,265
j and constable odo j

20
00:01:49,568 --> 00:01:53,607
j major Kira j

21
00:01:53,905 --> 00:01:56,738
j and the operations team j

22
00:01:57,034 --> 00:01:58,649
j I wish I could beam j

23
00:01:58,952 --> 00:02:01,659
j beam all the way home j

24
00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:06,790
j home to quark and captain sisko j

25
00:02:08,337 --> 00:02:13,206
j to ds9, my happy time j

26
00:02:14,676 --> 00:02:19,636
j my dream j

27
00:02:35,155 --> 00:02:36,645
Excuse me.

28
00:02:38,283 --> 00:02:39,693
Isn't this a bit premature?

29
00:02:41,912 --> 00:02:45,530
All right now, that's enough. Cut!

30
00:02:48,669 --> 00:02:49,954
A space battle?

31
00:02:50,253 --> 00:02:51,333
Really?

32
00:02:51,630 --> 00:02:53,712
We can wait on that one, ok?

33
00:02:54,841 --> 00:02:57,708
Hello, my name is Andy Robinson.

34
00:02:58,345 --> 00:03:03,260
I played garak,
on Star Trek: Deep space nine which means,

35
00:03:03,809 --> 00:03:07,643
I know a little something
about truth and lies.

36
00:03:07,938 --> 00:03:12,523
What we left behind,
is merely a documentary.

37
00:03:12,901 --> 00:03:15,187
And like most documentaries
it consists of stories,

38
00:03:15,487 --> 00:03:19,355
recalled in memory fueled by emotion.

39
00:03:19,658 --> 00:03:22,946
Now, stories require embellishment.

40
00:03:23,453 --> 00:03:25,865
Memory can be faulty,

41
00:03:26,164 --> 00:03:30,157
and emotion often obscures clarity.

42
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:36,789
The end result is entertaining,
informative, heartfelt,

43
00:03:37,968 --> 00:03:43,053
but it is truth,
as seen through a glass darkly.

44
00:03:44,516 --> 00:03:45,972
I'm afraid...

45
00:03:46,268 --> 00:03:50,011
It's the best we humans can do.

46
00:04:40,071 --> 00:04:43,234
“I love Star Trek,
but this show sucks!

47
00:04:43,533 --> 00:04:45,819
They broke gene roddenberry's
rules for Star Trek."

48
00:04:46,119 --> 00:04:47,484
"The whole idea of Star Trek,

49
00:04:47,788 --> 00:04:50,120
is the idea that they would
be exploring new worlds

50
00:04:50,415 --> 00:04:52,121
and going where no man has gone before."

51
00:04:52,417 --> 00:04:55,375
"Not bumming around a space station
talking about their feelings."

52
00:04:55,670 --> 00:04:58,252
"It's more like a Star Trek soap opera:

53
00:04:58,548 --> 00:05:00,539
As the space station turns.

54
00:05:00,842 --> 00:05:02,707
Really kind of mediocre at best."

55
00:05:03,011 --> 00:05:05,171
"Just watch, say, the second half
of the second season,

56
00:05:05,388 --> 00:05:07,879
and search online
for the five to 10 best episodes."

57
00:05:08,183 --> 00:05:10,469
"Anything else is losing precious time

58
00:05:10,769 --> 00:05:13,351
you could use for something
more pleasant like,

59
00:05:13,647 --> 00:05:16,514
breaking each bone in your...
Hand

60
00:05:16,817 --> 00:05:19,058
with a rusted hammer!"

61
00:05:19,986 --> 00:05:21,146
Oh, god.

62
00:05:26,368 --> 00:05:30,031
Actors don't go into
acting to be disliked.

63
00:05:30,330 --> 00:05:33,163
They go into acting to be loved,

64
00:05:33,625 --> 00:05:36,913
and certainly everyone thought, well, hey,

65
00:05:37,212 --> 00:05:39,043
you know, everyone loves tng,

66
00:05:39,422 --> 00:05:43,006
they're gonna love the next
iteration of the franchise.

67
00:05:43,301 --> 00:05:47,294
Well, when that did not happen,
and that continued not to happen,

68
00:05:47,597 --> 00:05:51,385
year in, year out,
it gets a little wearisome.

69
00:05:51,685 --> 00:05:56,019
And... it hurt the actors.
I felt bad.

70
00:05:56,314 --> 00:05:58,434
We were in a place
where people were just,

71
00:05:58,525 --> 00:06:00,336
I don't think they were really ready
for the show.

72
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,443
And I think we were referred to as
"the middle brother"

73
00:06:03,738 --> 00:06:05,694
disparagingly by various people.

74
00:06:05,991 --> 00:06:09,358
I knew that we were the bastard child,
which actually was thrilling to me,

75
00:06:09,661 --> 00:06:13,074
because that gave you guys the leeway
to do pretty much anything you wanted.

76
00:06:13,373 --> 00:06:15,113
We knew we were the middle child.

77
00:06:15,417 --> 00:06:17,078
And we knew that, you know,

78
00:06:17,377 --> 00:06:20,995
we weren't gonna get the respect
that we deserved.

79
00:06:21,298 --> 00:06:23,380
You have deep space nine.

80
00:06:23,675 --> 00:06:25,415
It's entire existence,

81
00:06:26,386 --> 00:06:28,342
was never alone.

82
00:06:28,638 --> 00:06:32,256
It was either a companion piece
fo next generation,

83
00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:38,020
or a piece that was continuing
as this new show voyager, began.

84
00:06:38,315 --> 00:06:40,306
The first one, and next generation

85
00:06:40,609 --> 00:06:43,692
are always the ones
that are being promoted,

86
00:06:43,987 --> 00:06:45,818
but it seems like our show,

87
00:06:46,114 --> 00:06:49,823
which is every inch as good as those,

88
00:06:50,118 --> 00:06:51,403
and, in my opinion, better,

89
00:06:51,703 --> 00:06:54,069
excuse me, better, than those two shows,

90
00:06:54,372 --> 00:06:57,830
there's still this perception
that we don't match up.

91
00:06:58,251 --> 00:07:02,335
I think in time we'll get there,
but it's still slightly hurtful.

92
00:07:04,341 --> 00:07:07,378
In the universe of new adventures,

93
00:07:07,719 --> 00:07:10,210
where no one has gone before,

94
00:07:12,891 --> 00:07:14,176
imagine,

95
00:07:15,185 --> 00:07:17,847
Star Trek: Deep space nine

96
00:07:18,146 --> 00:07:22,059
coming to your quadrant, January, 1993.

97
00:07:28,031 --> 00:07:29,431
From a studio point of view

98
00:07:29,532 --> 00:07:33,320
it was certainly one of the shows
that we wanted to place a big bet on.

99
00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:38,205
We were pretty confident that
the audience would welcome this franchise.

100
00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:40,536
I was so against it,
my mom was against it.

101
00:07:40,835 --> 00:07:42,371
I thought I knew what Star Trek was

102
00:07:42,671 --> 00:07:45,162
based on the next generation
and classic trek...

103
00:07:45,465 --> 00:07:48,047
My idea of Star Trek
is adventure and exploration...

104
00:07:48,343 --> 00:07:50,880
It bothered me a lot that they didn't
go out and boldly explore.

105
00:07:51,179 --> 00:07:52,840
That's the whole point of Star Trek!

106
00:07:54,391 --> 00:07:58,100
The mission of the enterprise
is to seek out and contact alien life.

107
00:07:59,646 --> 00:08:01,602
Let's see what's out there!

108
00:08:01,898 --> 00:08:03,479
Warp nine, engage!

109
00:08:04,901 --> 00:08:07,392
Mr. Paris, get us out of here!

110
00:08:15,161 --> 00:08:18,870
You had tng and you had voyager.

111
00:08:19,749 --> 00:08:22,161
Every week they went to a new planet,

112
00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:24,576
and then, that was fun!

113
00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:26,719
Who knows what was gonna
happen on that planet?

114
00:08:26,965 --> 00:08:29,172
We were on space station, slowly turning,

115
00:08:29,676 --> 00:08:32,668
next to a wormhole, next to bajor.

116
00:08:33,138 --> 00:08:36,301
It's not a crew on a ship
named the enterprise,

117
00:08:36,599 --> 00:08:39,557
going out and having fun
adventures every week.

118
00:08:39,853 --> 00:08:41,935
Um... it's definitely a darker show,

119
00:08:42,230 --> 00:08:45,393
and I think that threw people off-kilter
when it first came out.

120
00:08:45,692 --> 00:08:47,307
What made me excited about I,

121
00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:50,101
was that it was being sold
as the dark Star Trek.

122
00:08:50,405 --> 00:08:53,397
I would imagine the pilot was darker,

123
00:08:54,034 --> 00:08:57,151
- and sexier than anything we had seen.
- Yeah.

124
00:08:57,454 --> 00:09:00,321
Everything about deep space nine
was dark and dirty

125
00:09:00,623 --> 00:09:02,284
and the characters didn't all get along,

126
00:09:02,584 --> 00:09:04,620
and it was fun, it was exciting,

127
00:09:04,919 --> 00:09:07,331
it was something totally different
in the world of Star Trek.

128
00:09:07,630 --> 00:09:10,872
I don't know if that was a copy line
that the marketing department put out,

129
00:09:11,176 --> 00:09:14,339
or if the fans started
thinking about it that way,

130
00:09:14,637 --> 00:09:17,299
but it... it got that reputation,

131
00:09:17,599 --> 00:09:19,035
and some people still think of that.

132
00:09:19,059 --> 00:09:21,340
They say, "oh I don't wanna
watch it because it's darker."

133
00:09:21,478 --> 00:09:24,720
Did you feel that the look of
the show was different than tng?

134
00:09:25,023 --> 00:09:26,979
The tone was completely different,

135
00:09:27,275 --> 00:09:31,484
and part of that is decided
by the production design, Herman's sets,

136
00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:33,816
by Marvin rush who had
been shooting the show.

137
00:09:34,115 --> 00:09:36,106
The way the lighting
was built into the set,

138
00:09:36,409 --> 00:09:38,929
there were so many practical pieces
of light that you could use,

139
00:09:39,204 --> 00:09:41,160
and I always called it
"film noir in space".

140
00:09:42,874 --> 00:09:46,617
Rick and Michael, with our
support, wanted to make a Star Trek show

141
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,287
that would satisfy a Star Trek audience
but different.

142
00:09:55,261 --> 00:09:57,673
I think we saw Avery Brooks on tape

143
00:09:57,972 --> 00:09:59,633
before he came in and read,

144
00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:04,259
but the sides that he was given to read,
he just nailed it.

145
00:10:04,562 --> 00:10:05,847
I thought he was terrific.

146
00:10:06,147 --> 00:10:10,641
He was the only one for me,
who was really able to do sisko,

147
00:10:10,944 --> 00:10:13,151
because of the duality in his character.

148
00:10:13,446 --> 00:10:17,234
He was able to play sisko
with this huge weight on his shoulders,

149
00:10:17,784 --> 00:10:20,742
which informed everything that he did.

150
00:10:21,037 --> 00:10:23,574
I remember
when Peter Allan fields and I

151
00:10:23,873 --> 00:10:26,785
watched Avery's audition tapes for sisko.

152
00:10:27,085 --> 00:10:28,871
We were shocked, we were shocked.

153
00:10:29,170 --> 00:10:32,458
We expected to see a younger man

154
00:10:32,757 --> 00:10:34,918
which is how the part had been written,

155
00:10:35,218 --> 00:10:38,506
some guy who was still earning his way

156
00:10:38,805 --> 00:10:40,466
in the federation chain of command,

157
00:10:40,765 --> 00:10:43,177
and what we got instead
was this mature man,

158
00:10:43,476 --> 00:10:44,682
this powerful man.

159
00:10:45,645 --> 00:10:46,805
And it's like, wait a second,

160
00:10:46,980 --> 00:10:50,222
this isn't a commander, this is a captain.

161
00:10:50,525 --> 00:10:55,315
Now, you can tell me
that captains are on starships

162
00:10:55,613 --> 00:10:59,982
and commanders are
on static space stations,

163
00:11:00,285 --> 00:11:04,369
and that might be right,
but it's wrong for deep space nine,

164
00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:06,575
and it's wrong for the guy we hired.

165
00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:11,747
I remember coming on
the lot of Paramount,

166
00:11:12,046 --> 00:11:15,379
and there was hawk, standing there.

167
00:11:15,925 --> 00:11:18,758
We had this big,
black captain in your face.

168
00:11:19,053 --> 00:11:20,668
America, come and look at me.

169
00:11:20,972 --> 00:11:23,054
I'm running your show
and this is the face of it.

170
00:11:23,349 --> 00:11:25,260
So, when you tell me that hawk

171
00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:28,017
is gonna be the captain
of my new Star Trek show,

172
00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:29,598
I'm like, "what?!"

173
00:11:29,898 --> 00:11:30,898
This is amazing!

174
00:11:30,982 --> 00:11:32,313
Like some silver-plated phaser

175
00:11:32,609 --> 00:11:34,895
and he's got this awesome, like,
ship he's gonna drive in,

176
00:11:35,195 --> 00:11:37,231
and then he shows up
with like a full head of hair

177
00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:40,146
and boring-dad version of Avery Brooks.

178
00:11:40,450 --> 00:11:41,970
There was a lot of conversation

179
00:11:42,202 --> 00:11:45,069
about African-American men
and facial hair,

180
00:11:45,371 --> 00:11:47,828
that it was something
that was very important.

181
00:11:48,124 --> 00:11:51,161
I fought for three seasons

182
00:11:51,461 --> 00:11:55,045
to get Avery to be allowed
to wear the goat,

183
00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:57,171
and shave his head.

184
00:11:57,467 --> 00:11:59,708
This is a look he was very clear on,

185
00:12:00,011 --> 00:12:02,923
that this is how he felt comfortable
as a person in life.

186
00:12:03,223 --> 00:12:05,714
Why did it take three seasons?

187
00:12:06,017 --> 00:12:07,723
I do think going in...

188
00:12:08,102 --> 00:12:09,102
Um...

189
00:12:10,063 --> 00:12:13,601
Particularly given that
he was coming off of hawk,

190
00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,858
and we were also in the 24th century

191
00:12:17,153 --> 00:12:20,190
that we thought it would be a mistake...

192
00:12:20,490 --> 00:12:21,900
To, um...

193
00:12:23,034 --> 00:12:25,992
To-to go, um...

194
00:12:26,287 --> 00:12:27,902
For lack of a better term, 'street.'

195
00:12:28,206 --> 00:12:31,790
in case there's any resistance out there
to a black actor playing this role,

196
00:12:32,085 --> 00:12:34,827
let's make him, you know,
not quite an uncle Tom

197
00:12:35,129 --> 00:12:36,729
but, you know, moving in that direction.

198
00:12:36,839 --> 00:12:39,501
I mean, would a shaved head
be an issue today? No.

199
00:12:39,801 --> 00:12:43,919
When the bald came,
and that goatee,

200
00:12:44,264 --> 00:12:49,884
that had some strength
like you can't even communicate.

201
00:12:50,186 --> 00:12:51,471
It was terribly sexy.

202
00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:53,727
I always wanted to touch it.

203
00:12:55,441 --> 00:12:56,441
Nice.

204
00:12:58,403 --> 00:12:59,483
I'm glad you like it.

205
00:13:00,363 --> 00:13:03,070
One of the things that
attracted me about the Star Trek,

206
00:13:03,366 --> 00:13:07,860
was that I did not have
prosthetic make-up on my face.

207
00:13:08,162 --> 00:13:11,279
That in somewhere, some 400 years hence,

208
00:13:11,582 --> 00:13:13,197
that I would be human,

209
00:13:13,835 --> 00:13:15,371
completely human,

210
00:13:16,963 --> 00:13:18,248
and brown...

211
00:13:19,090 --> 00:13:20,090
Too.

212
00:13:20,216 --> 00:13:21,216
See?

213
00:13:21,384 --> 00:13:23,420
I was his first a.D. On his first episode.

214
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,551
- As a director?
- As a director.

215
00:13:25,847 --> 00:13:28,259
It was kind of hard,
because he was very closed,

216
00:13:28,558 --> 00:13:30,844
he wouldn't really share
a lot of information.

217
00:13:31,144 --> 00:13:34,602
He called me aside in quark's bar,

218
00:13:34,897 --> 00:13:37,417
it was pitch black in there
'cause we weren't shooting in there,

219
00:13:37,442 --> 00:13:39,398
it was dark and I went in and he said,

220
00:13:39,694 --> 00:13:41,574
"I want you to make sure
that I get what I need"

221
00:13:41,821 --> 00:13:44,312
and I said,
it's kind of difficult sometimes,

222
00:13:44,615 --> 00:13:47,448
because I come to ask you questions

223
00:13:47,785 --> 00:13:50,743
and then you act like you
don't wanna tell me things,

224
00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:54,406
or that I'm bothering you, and he said,

225
00:13:55,835 --> 00:13:58,417
"I guess you don't understand
my sense of humor."

226
00:14:00,256 --> 00:14:04,124
And I said, "to be honest with you, sir,

227
00:14:04,427 --> 00:14:07,260
- I'm not sure you have one."
- Wow.

228
00:14:07,555 --> 00:14:11,468
And he kind of reared back,
his shoulders kind of reared back...

229
00:14:11,976 --> 00:14:14,513
A little half-grin came
on his face and he said,

230
00:14:14,812 --> 00:14:16,677
"what is it you want to know?"

231
00:14:16,981 --> 00:14:18,846
And I said, "I'd like to know,

232
00:14:19,150 --> 00:14:22,483
when you have a scene in your mind,

233
00:14:22,862 --> 00:14:24,272
to tell us what you want."

234
00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:26,312
"Come with me", he said.

235
00:14:26,908 --> 00:14:29,115
"The camera will be here on the Dolly.

236
00:14:29,535 --> 00:14:32,072
We will pull back.
They'll walk down here.

237
00:14:32,372 --> 00:14:35,455
They sit down,
we go into an over-the-shoulder.

238
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:37,411
We push in for a close-up.

239
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:40,747
We come around for an over-the-shoulder
and push in for a close-up.

240
00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:43,047
- Is that clear?"
- And I said, "that's fantastic."

241
00:14:43,257 --> 00:14:44,872
First time I had a big, long speech.

242
00:14:46,135 --> 00:14:49,127
We're on the set, and I go through
and I fumbled it a couple of times.

243
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:50,715
Avery just looks at me.

244
00:14:51,015 --> 00:14:54,724
He comes up to me and he says,
"glide. Dig?"

245
00:14:55,019 --> 00:14:56,225
And he walks away.

246
00:14:56,521 --> 00:14:58,933
And I said, ok, I get
it because it's glide.

247
00:14:59,232 --> 00:15:01,188
You just, move your way through it.

248
00:15:01,484 --> 00:15:04,351
I think he did the same thing to Jeff.
He said like, "slalom."

249
00:15:04,654 --> 00:15:05,769
Slalom.

250
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,521
Get those flags on your shoulder,

251
00:15:08,991 --> 00:15:12,700
go into the turn, put it all together,
is basically what he's saying.

252
00:15:12,995 --> 00:15:14,610
And go, take the ride.

253
00:15:14,914 --> 00:15:18,372
When he speaks,
it's not in full sentences.

254
00:15:18,668 --> 00:15:19,874
What do you wanna know?

255
00:15:20,336 --> 00:15:21,701
Who's your favorite character?

256
00:15:22,004 --> 00:15:23,004
Child asked me.

257
00:15:23,256 --> 00:15:24,256
Huh?

258
00:15:24,507 --> 00:15:27,670
What do you mean?
Who's my favorite character in Star Trek?

259
00:15:27,969 --> 00:15:29,209
It's gotta be sisko!

260
00:15:29,512 --> 00:15:30,512
What?

261
00:15:30,638 --> 00:15:32,879
Don't make no sense, otherwise.

262
00:15:33,182 --> 00:15:34,797
Avery is like,

263
00:15:35,143 --> 00:15:36,508
a jazz musician.

264
00:15:36,811 --> 00:15:38,597
- Jazz musician...
- Jazz musician.

265
00:15:38,896 --> 00:15:40,557
You wanna understand Avery Brooks?

266
00:15:40,857 --> 00:15:42,973
Imagine that you're
talking to a jazz musician.

267
00:15:44,193 --> 00:15:45,228
Yeah.

268
00:15:45,528 --> 00:15:48,361
The first scene I had with him
where he called me "old man”,

269
00:15:48,656 --> 00:15:50,192
I had to pull Avery aside.

270
00:15:50,491 --> 00:15:52,698
He was saying it to me so stern,

271
00:15:52,994 --> 00:15:56,157
and I was told that my character
would be a humanoid

272
00:15:56,456 --> 00:15:58,913
with a symbiont inside of her,

273
00:15:59,208 --> 00:16:01,494
that had lived seven lifetimes.

274
00:16:01,794 --> 00:16:05,537
It was about 350 years old,
and had been a man and a woman

275
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,831
back and forth several times.

276
00:16:08,134 --> 00:16:11,968
So I pulled him aside and I said,
"Avery, I am so sorry but,

277
00:16:12,263 --> 00:16:15,630
you're so much more mature
than I am and I'm only 28.

278
00:16:15,933 --> 00:16:18,345
I can't top you, and I need your help.

279
00:16:18,644 --> 00:16:21,010
I'm really nervous about this,

280
00:16:21,314 --> 00:16:25,808
- but, I can't be your mentor, it's clear."
- So how did he change?

281
00:16:26,110 --> 00:16:29,477
His performance wasn't as intense,
it wasn't as intimidating.

282
00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:31,316
He pulled back a little bit.

283
00:16:31,616 --> 00:16:35,609
Benjamin, I was happy when I heard
you accepted this assignment,

284
00:16:35,912 --> 00:16:37,243
and I've been worried about you.

285
00:16:37,538 --> 00:16:40,746
It's good to see you too, old man.

286
00:16:41,876 --> 00:16:44,618
When we first talked
about this documentary in 2013,

287
00:16:44,921 --> 00:16:46,081
Avery Brooks said to me,

288
00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:49,668
"you know, it can't just be a documentary
about talking heads,"

289
00:16:49,967 --> 00:16:52,629
and that's what put the idea
in my head to do something different,

290
00:16:52,929 --> 00:16:56,672
which was breaking episode one
of this mythical season eight.

291
00:16:56,974 --> 00:16:58,589
And I called all you guys up.

292
00:16:58,893 --> 00:17:01,384
So what was the feeling
when you heard about that,

293
00:17:01,687 --> 00:17:04,554
and what was it like being
in the room for that one day?

294
00:17:04,857 --> 00:17:07,189
Well, first of all,
any chance to sit in a room

295
00:17:07,485 --> 00:17:11,603
with you and Ron and rené and hans,
is, like, a golden thing.

296
00:17:11,906 --> 00:17:14,613
So to get the five of us together
just to have a drink

297
00:17:14,909 --> 00:17:17,275
or-or eat some Sushi together, is like,

298
00:17:17,578 --> 00:17:19,193
I'll clear my schedule for that,

299
00:17:19,497 --> 00:17:21,658
but to sit together to talk about
deep space nine?

300
00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:22,958
Oh, even better.

301
00:17:23,167 --> 00:17:26,034
To break an episode, how can that not be
the most fun thing ever?

302
00:17:26,337 --> 00:17:30,956
So, it is march 8th, 2015,

303
00:17:31,259 --> 00:17:33,420
the band is back together.

304
00:17:44,897 --> 00:17:48,936
So, the idea is,
there's going to be an eighth season.

305
00:17:49,235 --> 00:17:51,271
This is our deep space nine.

306
00:17:51,571 --> 00:17:53,653
There's no one looking over our shoulders,

307
00:17:53,948 --> 00:17:55,609
it's where we think the series,

308
00:17:55,908 --> 00:17:59,776
in the current landscape of television,
would go.

309
00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:02,516
We're trying to come up with something
we could actually produce,

310
00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:04,060
- theoretically, right now.
- Yes, yes.

311
00:18:04,250 --> 00:18:06,370
- So 20 years have gone by in the story.
- Yeah.

312
00:18:07,253 --> 00:18:10,837
I'd like to begin on the defiant...

313
00:18:12,675 --> 00:18:16,008
With nog, who's in starfleet,

314
00:18:16,304 --> 00:18:19,296
- captain nog by now probably.
- Who could be a captain,

315
00:18:19,599 --> 00:18:23,433
and they are getting their asses kicked.
We start on action.

316
00:18:26,439 --> 00:18:30,227
It's evasive maneuvers,
it's don't fire back.

317
00:18:30,860 --> 00:18:32,940
He's trying to escape,
and we don't realize,

318
00:18:33,154 --> 00:18:35,440
we're wondering why was he attacked,
what has he got...

319
00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:38,356
- He was attacked by a cloaked ship...
- By a cloaked ship.

320
00:18:40,244 --> 00:18:42,404
So he's on the run,
someone's shooting at him.

321
00:18:49,128 --> 00:18:50,834
Maybe he's running for the wormhole.

322
00:18:55,051 --> 00:18:57,112
And when he makes it through
the wormhole that's his escape

323
00:18:57,136 --> 00:19:00,503
but on the other side of the wormhole
the ship is out of power and drifting.

324
00:19:02,224 --> 00:19:05,261
He looks out the window
and he's like, "oh, thank god."

325
00:19:05,770 --> 00:19:07,852
Pan up from the ship...

326
00:19:10,483 --> 00:19:12,083
Well, that's end of the tease, isn't it?

327
00:19:12,109 --> 00:19:14,475
I'll tune in.
I wanna know what the hell is going on.

328
00:19:20,409 --> 00:19:23,526
Everything that you do,
when you do a story about space,

329
00:19:23,829 --> 00:19:25,945
when you do Star Trek in particular,

330
00:19:26,499 --> 00:19:30,458
you can't just go rent a place
in Hollywood and start shooting.

331
00:19:30,753 --> 00:19:31,753
You had to build it.

332
00:19:33,089 --> 00:19:35,171
For a designer, this is heaven.

333
00:19:36,717 --> 00:19:38,253
All you get to do is play.

334
00:19:38,552 --> 00:19:41,339
All you get to do is dream up new things,

335
00:19:41,639 --> 00:19:44,756
and because it's in the future,
nobody can say you're wrong.

336
00:19:45,059 --> 00:19:46,720
Did we work on deep space nine?

337
00:19:47,019 --> 00:19:50,019
- We had fun on deep space nine...
- Yeah, I don't remember us ever working.

338
00:19:51,816 --> 00:19:53,977
We're sitting here,
in front of the space station,

339
00:19:54,276 --> 00:19:56,733
I just think it's absolutely beautiful.

340
00:19:57,238 --> 00:19:59,900
The initial concept
was largely based on an ail rig,

341
00:20:00,199 --> 00:20:03,407
with some terracing from
a shopping mall with slips and docs.

342
00:20:03,703 --> 00:20:07,195
We came up with a model
that I was very proud of.

343
00:20:07,498 --> 00:20:10,160
Rick berman said something that
infuriated me at the time

344
00:20:10,459 --> 00:20:12,620
but turned out to be
brilliantly insightful.

345
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,286
He said, "at it's core it
has to be a simple design,

346
00:20:15,589 --> 00:20:18,331
that an eight-year-old child can draw,
and you know what it is."

347
00:20:18,634 --> 00:20:20,750
So that's the direction we went.

348
00:20:21,053 --> 00:20:24,261
Going inside the station,
if you look at the production design,

349
00:20:24,557 --> 00:20:27,219
the world of deep space nine,
the scale of everything,

350
00:20:27,518 --> 00:20:30,931
it really had a feel that this is a place
where people live and work.

351
00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:32,720
Greatest Star Trek set ever.

352
00:20:33,023 --> 00:20:36,231
Herman Zimmerman, boy,
he pulled out all the stops on that one.

353
00:20:36,527 --> 00:20:38,734
Now the promenade
had an 80-foot radius.

354
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:40,485
That's a pretty big set.

355
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,760
I couldn't believe, first of all,
that he got it onto the stage.

356
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:46,150
It was big, it was colorful,

357
00:20:46,454 --> 00:20:48,786
it was impressive
and overwhelming a little bit.

358
00:20:49,081 --> 00:20:52,949
Every detail was there,
and it was from wall to wall.

359
00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:54,492
You were in a different world.

360
00:20:54,795 --> 00:20:57,787
Wait a minute!
What about the power supply grid?

361
00:20:58,090 --> 00:21:00,410
Do you think it'll be enough
to eliminate the force fields?

362
00:21:00,509 --> 00:21:02,090
If we could overload the grid,

363
00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:05,176
we might be able to cause a power surge.

364
00:21:05,473 --> 00:21:06,758
Let's give it a try.

365
00:21:07,057 --> 00:21:10,515
Our characters not only our jobs
but who we were,

366
00:21:10,811 --> 00:21:14,975
we were serious, driven, complex women.

367
00:21:16,567 --> 00:21:18,808
I loved math and science,
especially science,

368
00:21:19,111 --> 00:21:22,228
and I really identified with
the character jadzia Dax.

369
00:21:22,531 --> 00:21:24,647
I was watching
characters like jadzia Dax,

370
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:27,763
who didn't let gender roles stop her
from doing anything she wanted to do.

371
00:21:27,787 --> 00:21:29,698
I liked how she was an alien,

372
00:21:29,997 --> 00:21:32,830
but also very kind and loving,

373
00:21:33,125 --> 00:21:35,707
and I liked how she had
a strong personality.

374
00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:39,662
Because of Star Trek
I want to become a scientist.

375
00:21:39,965 --> 00:21:42,047
I love Kira, and I love Dax.

376
00:21:42,343 --> 00:21:44,834
And, as a young woman,
it's really important to me

377
00:21:45,137 --> 00:21:48,504
to see such amazing
female characters on TV.

378
00:21:48,849 --> 00:21:52,467
And they both taught me
how to not take shit from anybody.

379
00:21:52,770 --> 00:21:54,852
So, thank you, deep space nine.

380
00:21:55,147 --> 00:21:56,808
I'll take the controls, if you like.

381
00:21:57,107 --> 00:21:58,563
That'll be the day.

382
00:21:58,859 --> 00:22:00,941
What did you think
when you got the role?

383
00:22:01,237 --> 00:22:03,774
My first thought was
that it didn't read like a woman,

384
00:22:04,073 --> 00:22:05,073
and I loved that.

385
00:22:05,282 --> 00:22:09,275
I loved that it was not skewed sexually.

386
00:22:09,578 --> 00:22:11,409
I like the character of Kira nerys.

387
00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:14,447
She's sassy, she stands up for herself.

388
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:17,230
She was feisty, and angry,
the same way I was when I was a kid.

389
00:22:17,461 --> 00:22:19,292
She's tough, smart and kick-ass!

390
00:22:19,588 --> 00:22:23,877
Women can be strong and be passionate,
just like men can.

391
00:22:24,176 --> 00:22:26,792
I watched ds9 couple of years ago,

392
00:22:27,096 --> 00:22:30,930
and then I recognized something
enlightening and very beautiful.

393
00:22:31,725 --> 00:22:35,309
From moogie, to leeta, to Keiko to ezri,

394
00:22:35,604 --> 00:22:39,142
jadzia, kasidy, adami,
and, of course, Kira nerys.

395
00:22:40,568 --> 00:22:44,527
Deep space nine offered a wide spectrum
of female personalities,

396
00:22:44,822 --> 00:22:46,653
beautifully written feminism,

397
00:22:47,241 --> 00:22:49,357
and... equality.

398
00:22:49,660 --> 00:22:50,660
J I'm a bitch j

399
00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:51,525
j I'ma lover j

400
00:22:51,829 --> 00:22:52,864
j I'm a child j

401
00:22:53,163 --> 00:22:54,163
j I'm a mother j

402
00:22:54,373 --> 00:22:55,373
j I'm a sinner j

403
00:22:55,541 --> 00:22:57,077
j I'm a Saint j

404
00:22:57,376 --> 00:22:58,786
j I do not feel ashamed j

405
00:22:59,086 --> 00:23:00,371
j I'm your hell j

406
00:23:00,671 --> 00:23:01,877
j I'm your dream j

407
00:23:02,172 --> 00:23:03,878
j I'm nothing in between j

408
00:23:04,174 --> 00:23:07,962
j you know I wouldn't want it
any other way j

409
00:23:08,262 --> 00:23:12,505
perhaps we could discuss
these new rules over a drink.

410
00:23:15,728 --> 00:23:18,470
If you don't take that hand off my hip,

411
00:23:18,772 --> 00:23:21,730
you'll never be able to
raise a glass with it again.

412
00:23:23,485 --> 00:23:24,850
Common slate... Mark!

413
00:23:26,488 --> 00:23:28,774
- Tell me when you're ready.
- I think we're good.

414
00:23:29,074 --> 00:23:31,406
"Sisko is too politically correct.

415
00:23:31,827 --> 00:23:33,363
Dax is too perfect.

416
00:23:33,704 --> 00:23:34,819
Quark is ridiculous.

417
00:23:35,581 --> 00:23:39,165
I tire of human-like aliens
with head bumps."

418
00:23:40,669 --> 00:23:41,909
Well, sometimes so did I.

419
00:23:42,212 --> 00:23:45,875
Is there anything else I could do
to make your stay a pleasant one?

420
00:23:46,508 --> 00:23:48,248
Invite me to dinner.

421
00:23:50,095 --> 00:23:51,095
I'd be honored.

422
00:23:51,347 --> 00:23:53,133
Whenever there was a ferengi episode,

423
00:23:53,432 --> 00:23:55,969
I would bring all of the major characters
in that episode

424
00:23:56,268 --> 00:23:57,974
into my house on Saturday and Sunday,

425
00:23:58,270 --> 00:23:59,760
and we'd rehearse the show.

426
00:24:00,064 --> 00:24:03,101
I had such respect for you guys
for doing that.

427
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,171
I was well aware from the very beginning
that you guys were doing that.

428
00:24:06,195 --> 00:24:07,526
No, I didn't know that.

429
00:24:07,821 --> 00:24:09,925
And it's not something you could
force someone to do...

430
00:24:09,949 --> 00:24:11,709
- No, you can't.
- You can't put out an edict

431
00:24:11,867 --> 00:24:14,324
to get people to do that,
it has to come from the heart.

432
00:24:14,620 --> 00:24:19,284
We read it and we talk about it,
and then we have a little preparation.

433
00:24:19,583 --> 00:24:21,824
When we come on at 7:00 in
the morning or whenever it is,

434
00:24:22,127 --> 00:24:25,369
after three hours of make-up, we have
a little bit of it in the bank already.

435
00:24:25,673 --> 00:24:28,460
It was such an honor to be invited
to these rehearsals that armin's.

436
00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:32,217
It was fun.
It was working with wonderful people.

437
00:24:32,513 --> 00:24:34,674
I mean, you walk in
and there's Aron and armin

438
00:24:34,974 --> 00:24:37,966
and Max and Jeff
and Wally Shawn and cecily Adams.

439
00:24:38,268 --> 00:24:39,883
Cecily called me up,

440
00:24:40,187 --> 00:24:43,679
and said, "armin, they want me
to audition for moogie."

441
00:24:43,983 --> 00:24:45,223
And I said, "great!"

442
00:24:45,526 --> 00:24:46,936
And she came over to the house,

443
00:24:47,236 --> 00:24:49,352
and kitty and I worked
with her on our audition

444
00:24:49,655 --> 00:24:52,021
and we were delighted when you cast her.

445
00:24:52,324 --> 00:24:55,566
I know the two of us living under
the same roof isn't going to be easy,

446
00:24:55,869 --> 00:24:57,575
but you're my mother and I love you.

447
00:24:57,997 --> 00:25:00,113
And I love you too,

448
00:25:00,416 --> 00:25:04,830
but when you say "living together”,
what are we talking about, a day?

449
00:25:05,129 --> 00:25:06,915
A week, two weeks?

450
00:25:07,214 --> 00:25:10,832
I don't know.
I guess till I start feeling better.

451
00:25:11,135 --> 00:25:12,615
Unless, of course, you don't want me.

452
00:25:13,220 --> 00:25:16,838
You're my son, how could I refuse you?

453
00:25:17,141 --> 00:25:19,427
It was like a family on the show,
you know.

454
00:25:20,686 --> 00:25:22,142
It was like a family on the show.

455
00:25:24,231 --> 00:25:25,767
All the ferengis who spoke,

456
00:25:26,066 --> 00:25:29,684
they all had their own
specifically sculpted head.

457
00:25:29,987 --> 00:25:33,980
And they had their assigned
make-up artists who'd put 'em on.

458
00:25:34,283 --> 00:25:36,865
We were doing a scene,
and armin's make-up lady,

459
00:25:37,161 --> 00:25:38,596
I think, couldn't be there that day.

460
00:25:38,620 --> 00:25:40,702
They came in, and I looked
at armin and I said,

461
00:25:40,998 --> 00:25:43,114
"you don't look the same today."

462
00:25:43,417 --> 00:25:45,977
Then I looked at Max and I said,
"you don't look the same either.

463
00:25:46,045 --> 00:25:47,956
Are you guys wearing each other's heads?"

464
00:25:48,255 --> 00:25:51,234
They looked in the mirror and they went,
"oh, my god, how could this happen!

465
00:25:51,258 --> 00:25:53,294
It was on the mannequin!
It was marked for this!"

466
00:25:53,594 --> 00:25:56,256
"Look! Here's the deal.

467
00:25:56,555 --> 00:25:58,716
In an hour, I'm going into that bar,

468
00:25:59,016 --> 00:26:03,385
and I want two ferengis
with their heads on right when I do."

469
00:26:03,729 --> 00:26:06,687
You know there's a reason why that story,
you've never heard that story.

470
00:26:06,982 --> 00:26:09,815
With all due respect to Lou,
I don't think that ever happened.

471
00:26:10,110 --> 00:26:12,271
I can't speak to the heads,
I don't remember.

472
00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:14,107
But very definitely,

473
00:26:14,406 --> 00:26:19,275
we had cheek-nose-cheek pieces
that were put on.

474
00:26:19,578 --> 00:26:21,193
He got mine, I got his.

475
00:26:21,497 --> 00:26:24,830
That response has invalidated
this entire documentary.

476
00:26:25,125 --> 00:26:26,956
- So sorry...
- 'Cause now we have no idea...

477
00:26:27,252 --> 00:26:29,092
- What's true.
- Who's telling us the truth...

478
00:26:29,296 --> 00:26:31,708
- It was rashomon. It's rashomon.
- This is rashomon.

479
00:26:32,007 --> 00:26:34,999
We have no idea.
I'm so glad I asked this question, next!

480
00:26:35,594 --> 00:26:37,676
The make-up took four hours.

481
00:26:37,971 --> 00:26:40,257
And colm, who was always bitching,

482
00:26:40,557 --> 00:26:43,845
always bitching about sitting
in the chair for five minutes.

483
00:26:44,144 --> 00:26:46,224
He'd get antsy.
"Alright, you don't need to do this."

484
00:26:46,355 --> 00:26:47,936
"So, that's enough of that." You know.

485
00:26:48,232 --> 00:26:50,018
I mean, it just cracked me up.

486
00:26:50,317 --> 00:26:52,933
I was bitching about everything, all of it.

487
00:26:53,237 --> 00:26:55,603
And Michael and I had this
running thing about the make-up

488
00:26:55,906 --> 00:26:59,194
'cause he'd be in the chair for an hour,
an hour-and-a-half before me,

489
00:26:59,493 --> 00:27:00,493
before I'd get in.

490
00:27:00,619 --> 00:27:02,575
I'd pop in and get my
little bit of powder done,

491
00:27:02,871 --> 00:27:04,671
and he'd look over at me and go,
"you bastard!

492
00:27:05,374 --> 00:27:06,955
You bastard! Get out!"

493
00:27:07,876 --> 00:27:13,496
When Avery, Rene and colm
had to be in makeup, I was so happy!

494
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:16,165
Colm, whined.

495
00:27:16,510 --> 00:27:18,216
My favorite, he says,

496
00:27:18,512 --> 00:27:21,754
"me teeth! Look what they
did to me teeth!" You know?

497
00:27:22,057 --> 00:27:24,264
And, "me nails, look what
they did to me nails!"

498
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,097
They put glue up here,
and he couldn't shut his eyes.

499
00:27:27,396 --> 00:27:30,934
I can't close my eyes!
I can't... I feel like I can't blink!

500
00:27:31,817 --> 00:27:34,729
Putting on the make-up
was quite thrilling.

501
00:27:35,028 --> 00:27:39,192
It was going through the day
in the make-up that was hard.

502
00:27:39,491 --> 00:27:43,530
I'm claustrophobic, and it was when
they put the wig on, I felt sealed in.

503
00:27:43,829 --> 00:27:48,243
I remember going out into the sunlight
with that piece on,

504
00:27:49,001 --> 00:27:52,835
and all of a sudden I was covered by ants,
that's how I felt.

505
00:27:53,130 --> 00:27:55,337
There were long fingernails,

506
00:27:55,632 --> 00:28:00,592
that made many aspects
of life very difficult.

507
00:28:00,888 --> 00:28:03,721
It was an intensely
uncomfortable make-up to wear.

508
00:28:04,016 --> 00:28:05,301
René was great to work with.

509
00:28:05,601 --> 00:28:08,343
He didn't abuse his make-up.

510
00:28:08,645 --> 00:28:11,011
He was conscious of what
he was having for lunch.

511
00:28:11,315 --> 00:28:13,522
I couldn't eat, really, solid food,

512
00:28:13,817 --> 00:28:16,809
I would be in that make-up
for hours and hours on end,

513
00:28:17,112 --> 00:28:18,522
and I think it affected...

514
00:28:20,032 --> 00:28:23,445
My persona on the set.

515
00:28:23,744 --> 00:28:25,655
People who didn't know me

516
00:28:25,954 --> 00:28:30,618
thought I was probably as grumpy
as the character odo.

517
00:28:30,918 --> 00:28:33,910
I was walking down to the set

518
00:28:34,213 --> 00:28:37,000
on the last episode of season six,

519
00:28:37,299 --> 00:28:39,005
and you were coming
out of the sound stage,

520
00:28:39,301 --> 00:28:42,885
and you ripped your sweaty,
disgusting mask off

521
00:28:43,180 --> 00:28:45,967
and said, "here, take it as a souvenir!”

522
00:28:46,266 --> 00:28:50,555
It's like here, take my pain,
that you are causing me to go through.

523
00:28:50,854 --> 00:28:53,015
And I remember walking all the way back,

524
00:28:53,315 --> 00:28:55,522
and I had it mounted,
and it's in my living room,

525
00:28:55,817 --> 00:28:57,557
and in my library today,

526
00:28:57,861 --> 00:29:00,443
and I'm gonna keep it forever.

527
00:29:01,531 --> 00:29:03,112
There's a certain kind of actor,

528
00:29:03,408 --> 00:29:06,900
and you take them out of
the contemporary world and they're lost.

529
00:29:07,204 --> 00:29:08,644
And then there are the other actors,

530
00:29:08,914 --> 00:29:11,280
an actor who maybe never
gets to be a leading man,

531
00:29:11,583 --> 00:29:13,665
suddenly gets to be a leading man,

532
00:29:13,961 --> 00:29:16,122
you know,
because he's wearing this make-up.

533
00:29:16,421 --> 00:29:18,036
I'm thinking of you Marc alaimo.

534
00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:22,504
You, as an actor,
reminded us a lot of Avery as an actor

535
00:29:22,803 --> 00:29:25,010
in that you, very strong,

536
00:29:25,305 --> 00:29:26,841
when another actor acted against you,

537
00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:29,472
- you weren't gonna give them any ground...
- Thank you...

538
00:29:29,768 --> 00:29:32,163
They had to take it from you,
they had to meet you head on...

539
00:29:32,187 --> 00:29:33,747
Why didn't you tell me all that before?

540
00:29:33,897 --> 00:29:34,556
Here we go!

541
00:29:34,898 --> 00:29:37,480
I never felt appreciated on the show.

542
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,104
We have had this discussion,
in Vegas that time...

543
00:29:43,407 --> 00:29:46,865
Nobody ever came up to me in the beginning
and encouraged me,

544
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,617
gave me any support, nothing!

545
00:29:49,913 --> 00:29:52,199
And that really bothered me.

546
00:29:52,499 --> 00:29:54,740
You felt like you weren't
having enough interaction

547
00:29:55,043 --> 00:29:58,376
- with myself and the writers...
- Yeah, I always did.

548
00:29:58,672 --> 00:30:03,132
I wanted somebody to come up and say,
"man, you got this, baby!

549
00:30:03,427 --> 00:30:05,042
You nailed this character."

550
00:30:05,345 --> 00:30:08,587
But nobody ever, you know, did that.

551
00:30:08,890 --> 00:30:12,474
And I will say it again,
the way you know we liked you,

552
00:30:12,769 --> 00:30:16,387
was that you kept coming back,
and that your role kept getting better.

553
00:30:16,690 --> 00:30:21,150
That is how writers tell an actor
that they like them more than anything.

554
00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:24,653
I suppose it's because
of my overwhelming charm.

555
00:30:35,792 --> 00:30:38,534
Michael piller called me up and said,

556
00:30:39,004 --> 00:30:42,667
"we're going to open season two
with a three-part episode."

557
00:30:42,966 --> 00:30:46,208
Something that had never been done
in the franchise history.

558
00:30:46,511 --> 00:30:49,253
That's the moment
where I started to think,

559
00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:52,969
ok, deep space nine gives us opportunities

560
00:30:53,268 --> 00:30:59,935
that the other shows do not have
or did not have, and that's exciting.

561
00:31:00,233 --> 00:31:02,587
There's been a lot of talk lately
about the influence deep space nine

562
00:31:02,611 --> 00:31:06,729
has had on television, and paving the way
for highly serialized storytelling.

563
00:31:07,032 --> 00:31:09,990
I think ds9 never gets quite enough credit

564
00:31:10,285 --> 00:31:13,243
for all of the things that it did
as incredibly well as it did them,

565
00:31:13,747 --> 00:31:15,141
and how early they were doing them.

566
00:31:15,165 --> 00:31:18,828
Star Trek: Deep space nine
was part of a little renaissance

567
00:31:19,127 --> 00:31:21,743
that was going in the 90s,
in television writing.

568
00:31:22,047 --> 00:31:24,880
Without the pioneering
of serialized storytelling,

569
00:31:25,175 --> 00:31:27,962
we wouldn't have game of thrones,
we wouldn't have walking dead,

570
00:31:28,261 --> 00:31:32,049
we wouldn't have any number of these
appointment television shows

571
00:31:32,349 --> 00:31:33,349
that we have now.

572
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:39,057
Paramount was adamant about us

573
00:31:39,356 --> 00:31:40,892
not having continuing storylines.

574
00:31:41,191 --> 00:31:45,810
In our shows,
the rule was no serialization.

575
00:31:46,113 --> 00:31:47,899
People want self-contained episodes.

576
00:31:48,198 --> 00:31:51,110
I know people in the studio were nervous
about the fact

577
00:31:51,410 --> 00:31:54,650
that people might not have seen it last
week, so might not know what was going on.

578
00:31:54,704 --> 00:31:58,367
In those days, people
used words like syndication

579
00:31:58,667 --> 00:32:00,123
which don't really exist anymore.

580
00:32:00,627 --> 00:32:03,084
Um, you needed every show like
a McDonald's beef burger

581
00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:04,941
to be the same wherever the hell you were

582
00:32:04,965 --> 00:32:06,375
and at whatever level of seasons.

583
00:32:06,842 --> 00:32:08,707
Being episodic, you're able to jump in.

584
00:32:09,010 --> 00:32:12,298
It's one episode, it opens and closes
and you get the gist of what's going on.

585
00:32:12,597 --> 00:32:15,805
Well, deep space nine being serialized,
you have to follow along.

586
00:32:16,101 --> 00:32:18,683
I thought it was
a great creative risk to do it,

587
00:32:18,979 --> 00:32:20,935
but, you know, there is a price to pay

588
00:32:21,231 --> 00:32:23,472
for anything you do
that might rock the boat, right?

589
00:32:23,775 --> 00:32:25,640
It lost us fans along the way.

590
00:32:25,944 --> 00:32:28,060
Some markets, it was at weird hours,

591
00:32:28,363 --> 00:32:30,363
some markets,
the show would be dropped for a week.

592
00:32:30,615 --> 00:32:32,735
How's anybody supposed to
keep up with the continuity?

593
00:32:32,909 --> 00:32:35,651
Because if you missed one
when it was running real time,

594
00:32:35,954 --> 00:32:37,535
you were totally out of the loop.

595
00:32:37,831 --> 00:32:39,367
The studio was very clear,

596
00:32:39,666 --> 00:32:43,955
you are killing the series
by serializing it.

597
00:32:44,254 --> 00:32:47,337
I knew what they were saying
made sense to them,

598
00:32:47,716 --> 00:32:50,674
but I did not think it made sense
for deep space nine.

599
00:32:50,969 --> 00:32:54,086
Deep space nine
seemed to call out for serialization.

600
00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:02,561
I think the biggest question
posed by the series finale,

601
00:33:02,856 --> 00:33:04,562
is what happens with sisko, you know?

602
00:33:05,025 --> 00:33:06,481
It's difficult to explain.

603
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:11,896
- It's not linear.
- What isn't?

604
00:33:12,574 --> 00:33:13,609
My life,

605
00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:15,945
my destiny.

606
00:33:18,413 --> 00:33:20,620
The prophets saved me, kasidy.

607
00:33:21,708 --> 00:33:22,868
I'm their emissary.

608
00:33:23,835 --> 00:33:26,577
He's going back to learn
from them he says,

609
00:33:26,922 --> 00:33:29,880
in the wormhole, the celestial temple.

610
00:33:30,175 --> 00:33:31,790
You're with us, now.

611
00:33:32,552 --> 00:33:33,883
If he didn't come back,

612
00:33:34,179 --> 00:33:38,468
whether time is weird or not,
the repercu... I mean, that's big.

613
00:33:39,267 --> 00:33:41,474
- Remember, his pregnant wife and son.
- Yeah.

614
00:33:41,770 --> 00:33:45,354
- But time is weird in the wormhole.
- For him it's been a minute,

615
00:33:45,649 --> 00:33:47,049
and a million years simultaneously.

616
00:33:47,275 --> 00:33:47,934
- Right.
- Yeah.

617
00:33:48,235 --> 00:33:50,296
- But the promise he made...
- He made a promise he'd be back.

618
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:51,320
Maybe a year.

619
00:33:52,155 --> 00:33:53,155
Maybe,

620
00:33:54,282 --> 00:33:55,282
yesterday.

621
00:33:57,327 --> 00:33:58,988
But I will be back.

622
00:34:03,166 --> 00:34:06,374
Should the sequence start
two weeks earlier on deep space nine,

623
00:34:06,670 --> 00:34:08,581
so you get a glimpse
of what deep space nine is?

624
00:34:09,172 --> 00:34:11,959
Deep space nine
is now a religious shrine.

625
00:34:13,009 --> 00:34:15,716
People come to watch the wormhole open.

626
00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:20,298
It's mecca! It's like the...
It's a pilgrimage site.

627
00:34:21,726 --> 00:34:23,216
I have a big pitch for Kira.

628
00:34:27,148 --> 00:34:29,514
She's a priestess of some kind.

629
00:34:29,901 --> 00:34:31,901
- That's cool...
- So that she's really...

630
00:34:32,028 --> 00:34:34,735
- A vedek... vedek Kira?
- Yeah. Exactly.

631
00:34:35,031 --> 00:34:37,443
- I think that's really cool.
- Wow. Cool. Wow.

632
00:34:37,742 --> 00:34:39,983
She's on deep space nine
but as a vedek.

633
00:34:41,121 --> 00:34:44,329
If there was a religious revival on bajor,

634
00:34:44,624 --> 00:34:47,787
it's kind of interesting
to get her swept up in it.

635
00:34:48,086 --> 00:34:51,078
She was the warrior to save bajor,

636
00:34:51,381 --> 00:34:53,417
and now she's still a warrior,

637
00:34:53,717 --> 00:34:55,582
but she's a warrior for the religion.

638
00:34:57,137 --> 00:34:58,923
Quark comes in to see her,

639
00:34:59,222 --> 00:35:01,964
and she's got the pad where she says,
"is this true?"

640
00:35:02,267 --> 00:35:03,552
"Look, I'm just the messenger.

641
00:35:03,852 --> 00:35:06,935
I'm delivering the message, you got it,
you don't have to come."

642
00:35:07,230 --> 00:35:10,190
"Well, of course, I'm coming. I mean,
I don't know who else is gonna come."

643
00:35:11,901 --> 00:35:13,921
So let's start with o'brien.
Where is he in his life?

644
00:35:13,945 --> 00:35:15,401
- What is he doing...
- He's the Dean

645
00:35:15,697 --> 00:35:18,359
of mechanical engineering
at starfleet academy or whatever...

646
00:35:18,658 --> 00:35:19,658
- Still?
- Yeah.

647
00:35:19,868 --> 00:35:22,154
So we see o'brien comes home,

648
00:35:22,454 --> 00:35:25,321
and there's some kind of a invitation.

649
00:35:25,624 --> 00:35:27,865
"Come to ds9, Keiko's going..."

650
00:35:28,168 --> 00:35:30,608
- We could see Molly...
- Right. Molly's 26...

651
00:35:30,712 --> 00:35:34,751
Well, touch on the fact Molly's
at deep space nine, which is a big thing.

652
00:35:35,050 --> 00:35:38,463
She says,
"and it's a chance to see Julian, too."

653
00:35:38,803 --> 00:35:40,543
He goes "well, yeah, that's part of it."

654
00:35:43,642 --> 00:35:46,054
Ezri's the commander of a ship,

655
00:35:47,187 --> 00:35:48,973
and bashir is her medical officer

656
00:35:49,272 --> 00:35:51,058
and they're off boldly going.

657
00:35:51,358 --> 00:35:53,438
Now bashir and ezri
are married though, right?

658
00:35:53,485 --> 00:35:55,285
- Correct.
- It'd be nice if somebody

659
00:35:55,362 --> 00:35:57,042
- was in a happy relationship.
- Yes!

660
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,613
I-I wouldn't mind seeing
a relationship that's lasted.

661
00:36:02,535 --> 00:36:05,117
- Worf is coming from kronos.
- Q'onos.

662
00:36:07,582 --> 00:36:10,574
Q, apostrophe o-n-o-s, I think.

663
00:36:11,711 --> 00:36:13,292
- That look right?
- I think that's it.

664
00:36:15,131 --> 00:36:18,749
It's... martok is old,
and he's transitioning out.

665
00:36:19,052 --> 00:36:22,215
I think he's got a very
close relationship with worf,

666
00:36:22,514 --> 00:36:24,926
and worf is gonna be his successor.

667
00:36:25,642 --> 00:36:27,178
I think it's martok saying,

668
00:36:27,477 --> 00:36:30,435
"by all means, go and see your friends."

669
00:36:31,064 --> 00:36:34,352
Or is it, "there are rumblings, worf"?

670
00:36:34,651 --> 00:36:36,642
Something is going on with bajor.

671
00:36:36,945 --> 00:36:38,856
This is a perfect excuse to show up

672
00:36:39,155 --> 00:36:41,737
with a klingon warship,
and see what's going on.

673
00:36:42,909 --> 00:36:44,149
I think we end with Jake.

674
00:36:44,452 --> 00:36:46,613
He's Jake sisko
the novelist now, right?

675
00:36:46,913 --> 00:36:49,905
I think Jake wrote deep space nine
over the last 20 years.

676
00:36:50,208 --> 00:36:51,539
Yeah, he's Benny Russell.

677
00:36:51,835 --> 00:36:53,575
He's off, isolated,

678
00:36:53,878 --> 00:36:55,960
he sends out his stories, his novels

679
00:36:56,256 --> 00:36:58,496
and he's successful at it,
it's just like in the visitor.

680
00:36:58,758 --> 00:37:01,545
If we could see
the equivalent of: "Message from quark."

681
00:37:01,845 --> 00:37:03,656
And he just goes: Delete.
He just deletes it...

682
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,136
Yeah, I love that.

683
00:37:05,432 --> 00:37:07,514
We should cut to him in the shower.

684
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,788
We could just do that...

685
00:37:10,812 --> 00:37:12,812
And see him standing
in white for just a second.

686
00:37:13,314 --> 00:37:15,634
He looks.
There's a reaction shot and then we cut.

687
00:37:17,652 --> 00:37:19,062
Big reunion, right?

688
00:37:19,738 --> 00:37:21,148
And everyone's in quark's.

689
00:37:23,158 --> 00:37:26,616
Quark still is glad to see us,
but he's glad to see anyone...

690
00:37:26,911 --> 00:37:28,723
'Cause no one paid
their bar bills when they left.

691
00:37:28,747 --> 00:37:30,667
Yeah, he's still got the tab!

692
00:37:30,707 --> 00:37:31,707
He still has the tab!

693
00:37:32,375 --> 00:37:33,410
With interest.

694
00:37:35,211 --> 00:37:36,971
You just had
that moment of reunion,

695
00:37:37,088 --> 00:37:41,206
if you put the gang back together
in a room, there is that sense of...

696
00:37:41,509 --> 00:37:43,591
There's the one key element
that's missing.

697
00:37:43,887 --> 00:37:46,549
That sisko's not here
and they keep talkin' about it,

698
00:37:46,848 --> 00:37:48,179
and it's the ghost in the room.

699
00:37:48,475 --> 00:37:51,057
A man who became a god,
and he's supposed to be right over there,

700
00:37:51,352 --> 00:37:54,272
the celestial temple, you can see it
out the window every once in a while,

701
00:37:54,522 --> 00:37:56,362
and there's frustrations
and there's sort of...

702
00:37:56,649 --> 00:37:58,640
He never came back.
I thought he would come back.

703
00:37:58,943 --> 00:38:00,423
He said he would come back, you know?

704
00:38:01,154 --> 00:38:04,317
Then Jake shows up.
Jake's the last one to come.

705
00:38:05,325 --> 00:38:07,303
"Now that we're all here
we should all go see him.

706
00:38:07,327 --> 00:38:09,659
Quark says, "yeah, he really
wants to see everyone."

707
00:38:09,954 --> 00:38:10,954
He's dying.

708
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:12,879
Yeah, it's just he's dying,
it's who's dying?

709
00:38:13,041 --> 00:38:15,327
So, one by one you start
to eliminate all the suspects,

710
00:38:15,627 --> 00:38:17,387
and at this point
you're thinking it's sisko.

711
00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:18,856
- Right.
- Then you just cut,

712
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,087
and they're walking into Vic fontaine's.

713
00:38:23,927 --> 00:38:26,919
I just think we should have to embrace
the preposterousness of the fact

714
00:38:27,222 --> 00:38:29,325
that all these characters are gonna come
from all over the world

715
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:30,964
to visit a dying hologram.

716
00:38:32,185 --> 00:38:33,871
- I love that but that's...
- We should own that...

717
00:38:33,895 --> 00:38:36,040
And I think you own it, because I think
there is something heartfelt

718
00:38:36,064 --> 00:38:38,726
about that character
and his connection to those characters.

719
00:38:39,025 --> 00:38:42,859
When you watch the finale,
there's so much about that special place

720
00:38:43,154 --> 00:38:45,114
- and how important it all was to them...
- Right.

721
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:46,240
I kind of buy it.

722
00:38:46,866 --> 00:38:49,448
The fun thing is that
you walk in there and he's like,

723
00:38:49,744 --> 00:38:51,544
"don't hit me, pally!
I got news for ya.

724
00:38:51,830 --> 00:38:54,697
Reports of my death
have been greatly exaggerated.”

725
00:38:55,166 --> 00:38:59,375
And they all look to quark,
and he goes, "I don't know.

726
00:38:59,671 --> 00:39:04,085
My nephew, nog, the starfleet officer,
asked me to do this."

727
00:39:04,384 --> 00:39:08,423
And then we cut to...
Nog is on the view screen,

728
00:39:08,721 --> 00:39:11,053
and now we're caught up in time.

729
00:39:11,683 --> 00:39:15,471
"I'm sorry I brought you all here
on false pretenses,

730
00:39:15,770 --> 00:39:17,556
but you'll understand why."

731
00:39:17,856 --> 00:39:19,062
And then, boom!

732
00:39:24,988 --> 00:39:29,027
I like the idea of saying,
ok, here he is, beloved character.

733
00:39:29,325 --> 00:39:31,737
Look at nog, he's made it.
We love him.

734
00:39:32,036 --> 00:39:34,402
Good on you nog. Boom!

735
00:39:35,331 --> 00:39:36,446
Guess what?

736
00:39:36,749 --> 00:39:39,115
This is deep space nine,
don't get too comfortable.

737
00:39:42,797 --> 00:39:47,131
Being a writer, on Star Trek, is like
being on the bridge of the enterprise.

738
00:39:47,427 --> 00:39:51,716
Essentially, the metaphor of going into
space where no one has gone before,

739
00:39:52,015 --> 00:39:54,695
is what a writer does every time
he sits down to the word processor.

740
00:39:55,018 --> 00:39:57,555
And it's as scary as it is
for those people

741
00:39:57,854 --> 00:39:59,515
who are facing the unknown in space,

742
00:39:59,814 --> 00:40:03,227
'cause the blank page is our universe,
and it's the unknown.

743
00:40:03,735 --> 00:40:08,650
Michael truly believed that writers
were born, not made.

744
00:40:09,157 --> 00:40:11,944
He believed that if you were a writer,

745
00:40:12,243 --> 00:40:14,074
there was nothing else that you could do.

746
00:40:14,370 --> 00:40:16,736
He felt that he knew from
when he was a teenager

747
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,560
that that was literally the only thing

748
00:40:18,708 --> 00:40:20,744
that he was gonna be able to do
in his life.

749
00:40:21,753 --> 00:40:25,086
I think so many people owe Michael a lot.

750
00:40:25,381 --> 00:40:30,717
If it weren't for Michael bringing that
script submission policy to Star Trek,

751
00:40:31,012 --> 00:40:33,219
which was the only show in Hollywood
that did that,

752
00:40:33,514 --> 00:40:36,472
a lot of people would not have the careers
that they have now.

753
00:40:36,768 --> 00:40:40,681
I remember Mike being a brilliant,

754
00:40:41,105 --> 00:40:42,265
slightly odd,

755
00:40:42,565 --> 00:40:44,931
incredibly hard-to-please guy.

756
00:40:45,234 --> 00:40:49,477
He was also incredibly generous.
Um, he worked his butt off.

757
00:40:49,781 --> 00:40:51,317
He thought about character first.

758
00:40:51,616 --> 00:40:53,231
Plot was always secondary.

759
00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:58,403
Plot only existed
to explain and to reveal character.

760
00:40:58,706 --> 00:41:01,038
Many times I heard Michael say
to a writer,

761
00:41:01,334 --> 00:41:05,043
"in this scene,
don't be afraid to empty the pockets."

762
00:41:05,338 --> 00:41:07,454
And that meant, in this scene,

763
00:41:07,757 --> 00:41:11,716
it's all about revealing the character
for who they really are.

764
00:41:12,011 --> 00:41:16,004
To go deep,
beneath the surface of the character,

765
00:41:16,307 --> 00:41:20,141
and reveal them in a way
the audience had never thought of,

766
00:41:20,436 --> 00:41:23,098
or never expected, or just didn't know.

767
00:41:23,606 --> 00:41:26,393
The development of so many characters

768
00:41:26,693 --> 00:41:29,560
went so deep, and acted so profound,

769
00:41:29,862 --> 00:41:31,773
that it made the whole series
very interesting.

770
00:41:32,073 --> 00:41:34,280
It went where no one has gone before.

771
00:41:34,575 --> 00:41:37,783
It pursued the journey inside,

772
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:40,161
not the journey out.

773
00:41:40,456 --> 00:41:42,742
We spent more time talking
about characters

774
00:41:43,042 --> 00:41:45,078
and "what's the growth?"
"What's the failure?"

775
00:41:45,378 --> 00:41:48,245
I loved creating a character
for seven years,

776
00:41:48,548 --> 00:41:52,006
that changed every week and season,

777
00:41:52,510 --> 00:41:55,172
and evolved in such a rich way.

778
00:41:55,471 --> 00:41:57,587
I remember being struck
by the odo character

779
00:41:57,890 --> 00:42:00,411
and the idea that he worked there before,
and he's still working there.

780
00:42:00,435 --> 00:42:01,829
- You know? The same thing...
- Oh, yeah...

781
00:42:01,853 --> 00:42:05,095
- He worked for the cardassians.
- Yeah, now he's still there.

782
00:42:05,398 --> 00:42:08,060
I think those stepping stones
were really important

783
00:42:08,359 --> 00:42:12,978
for odo to keep moving
towards his ultimate destiny.

784
00:42:14,073 --> 00:42:16,029
I remember wanting
to write for odo,

785
00:42:16,826 --> 00:42:19,033
and wanting to do quark/odo stuff.

786
00:42:19,328 --> 00:42:21,181
It felt like there was comedy
fo be mined there,

787
00:42:21,205 --> 00:42:22,490
and they were such a great duo.

788
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:24,951
Armin and I,
it was a different working dynamic

789
00:42:25,251 --> 00:42:27,867
but very tight and trusting.

790
00:42:28,171 --> 00:42:30,378
The last scene between quark and odo,

791
00:42:30,673 --> 00:42:35,713
the fact that, even in parting,
we're still going to play this game

792
00:42:36,012 --> 00:42:38,503
and never admit to each other
what we mean to each other.

793
00:42:38,806 --> 00:42:40,451
Are you telling me
that after all these years,

794
00:42:40,475 --> 00:42:41,965
after all we've been through,

795
00:42:42,268 --> 00:42:43,868
you're not even gonna say goodbye to me?

796
00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:50,982
- Don't take it hard quark...
- Hard?

797
00:42:51,277 --> 00:42:52,892
What are you talking about?

798
00:42:53,196 --> 00:42:54,686
That man loves me!

799
00:42:55,698 --> 00:42:56,858
Didn't you see?

800
00:42:57,283 --> 00:42:59,069
It was written all over his back.

801
00:42:59,577 --> 00:43:02,614
See, I would've thought you would be
more interested in what it was like

802
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:06,907
when I finally got to get it on with Kira.

803
00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:08,950
Are we gonna have dinner together or not?

804
00:43:09,253 --> 00:43:10,253
And if we do, then what?

805
00:43:10,379 --> 00:43:11,979
I don't know, maybe we could go dancing?

806
00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:14,151
And after that, I suppose
you'll expect me to kiss you.

807
00:43:14,175 --> 00:43:15,855
- It's possible...
- Then who needs dinner?

808
00:43:15,885 --> 00:43:17,905
Why don't I just get it over with
and kiss you right now?

809
00:43:17,929 --> 00:43:19,419
Well, why don't you?

810
00:43:27,605 --> 00:43:31,063
This really was a deep, loving friendship,

811
00:43:31,359 --> 00:43:33,475
that became a romance.

812
00:43:33,778 --> 00:43:36,019
It was not something
we were looking to do,

813
00:43:36,322 --> 00:43:38,313
you guys gave it to us in dailies.

814
00:43:38,616 --> 00:43:42,200
Doesn't it look like odo
has feelings for Kira?

815
00:43:42,495 --> 00:43:45,237
Doesn't Kira get a little softer around...

816
00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:47,622
So we just followed your lead.

817
00:43:47,917 --> 00:43:53,378
You guys, decided to make
odo and Kira a couple.

818
00:43:54,006 --> 00:43:56,543
But instead of just having them
get lost together

819
00:43:56,843 --> 00:43:58,333
in the forest or something like that,

820
00:43:58,636 --> 00:44:02,800
you put together
a musical romantic comedy,

821
00:44:03,391 --> 00:44:06,474
in a 60's Las Vegas nightclub

822
00:44:06,769 --> 00:44:09,306
with odo playing piano,

823
00:44:09,605 --> 00:44:12,893
and Kira, Nana visitor, singing.

824
00:44:13,484 --> 00:44:15,566
I loved that episode!

825
00:44:15,862 --> 00:44:18,228
I was a full-on,

826
00:44:18,531 --> 00:44:20,943
realized person,

827
00:44:21,242 --> 00:44:24,905
who was a gray character.

828
00:44:25,204 --> 00:44:26,910
During the occupation,

829
00:44:27,206 --> 00:44:30,164
I didn't want to attack any facility
that had a bajoran working in it,

830
00:44:30,459 --> 00:44:31,073
but I did it.

831
00:44:31,377 --> 00:44:35,711
Anyone who's not fighting with you,
is fighting against you.

832
00:44:36,007 --> 00:44:38,373
Reading her,
you'd have to jolt yourself awake.

833
00:44:38,676 --> 00:44:40,382
She was terrorist.

834
00:44:40,678 --> 00:44:43,385
Who's a terrorist and who's not
depends on your perspective.

835
00:44:43,681 --> 00:44:46,969
The British saw George Washington as
a terrorist, we see him as a war hero.

836
00:44:47,268 --> 00:44:49,634
And same with Kira,
'cause we like her, as viewers,

837
00:44:49,937 --> 00:44:52,599
and we've come to despise the cardassians,

838
00:44:52,899 --> 00:44:54,935
we give her a lot more latitude.

839
00:44:55,234 --> 00:44:59,568
The whole allegory of terrorism
is playing out in a rather disturbing way

840
00:44:59,864 --> 00:45:02,071
that was not happening in the 90s.

841
00:45:02,366 --> 00:45:05,153
When our show was on,
terrorism was just plain old terrorism

842
00:45:05,453 --> 00:45:07,613
in those days.
Something that happened to other people.

843
00:45:09,373 --> 00:45:11,705
Do you think
we could've played it after 9/11?

844
00:45:12,001 --> 00:45:15,459
I don't know.
I really don't know.

845
00:45:16,005 --> 00:45:20,214
Uh... maybe not the way she existed then.

846
00:45:20,801 --> 00:45:23,521
What am I supposed to feel repentant for?
What are you talking about?

847
00:45:23,763 --> 00:45:28,553
You did this to me,
and you don't even know who I am.

848
00:45:28,851 --> 00:45:32,810
Fifteen million bajorans died
during the occupation

849
00:45:33,105 --> 00:45:34,845
and you want me to feel sorry for you?

850
00:45:35,149 --> 00:45:38,687
I can't imagine doing the show today,

851
00:45:38,986 --> 00:45:42,228
and being able to play
Kira in quite that way.

852
00:45:42,531 --> 00:45:46,240
Now, there have been plenty
of terrorist characters on television.

853
00:45:46,535 --> 00:45:50,448
On homeland, Brody was a fascinating,
complex character,

854
00:45:50,748 --> 00:45:52,739
but he was a problem for that show.

855
00:45:53,042 --> 00:45:55,033
We were always questioning Brody.

856
00:45:56,212 --> 00:45:57,418
Kira, never.

857
00:45:58,089 --> 00:45:59,545
A very different time.

858
00:46:00,007 --> 00:46:04,626
- There's a bond between us.
- No, only in your mind.

859
00:46:05,137 --> 00:46:07,628
You're an opportunistic,
power-hungry dictator,

860
00:46:07,932 --> 00:46:10,719
and I want nothing more to do with you.

861
00:46:11,018 --> 00:46:12,633
I loved working with Nana.

862
00:46:13,271 --> 00:46:15,637
I always had that feeling
I wanted to break her,

863
00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:17,225
as a character,

864
00:46:17,650 --> 00:46:21,359
and force her to fall in love with him.

865
00:46:21,904 --> 00:46:25,317
I could make things
very pleasant for you here, Kira.

866
00:46:26,075 --> 00:46:27,690
You know, dukat was a pretty,

867
00:46:28,786 --> 00:46:32,745
pretty sexy guy,
he was a pretty sexy character.

868
00:46:33,624 --> 00:46:37,082
He was always on the make for her,
and she always pulled away.

869
00:46:37,378 --> 00:46:39,994
If there had been
another road to go down,

870
00:46:40,464 --> 00:46:42,876
were they like, secretly
in love or something,

871
00:46:43,175 --> 00:46:45,541
that would've been terrific,
but it never happened.

872
00:46:45,970 --> 00:46:49,554
I remember, you came to me and you said,

873
00:46:49,849 --> 00:46:51,555
"get ready for the next script.

874
00:46:51,851 --> 00:46:54,058
You and gul dukat have an affair."

875
00:46:54,895 --> 00:46:58,888
No, we never wrote it,
so that could not be...

876
00:46:59,191 --> 00:47:01,147
Oh, oh, that! Oh!

877
00:47:01,986 --> 00:47:03,146
This was... ok.

878
00:47:03,446 --> 00:47:05,812
So remember you said
you never fought with me?

879
00:47:06,115 --> 00:47:08,197
Yeah. No, I remember...

880
00:47:08,492 --> 00:47:11,780
Do you remember me going,
"it can't be. It can't be gul dukat.

881
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:13,319
Anybody but gul dukat."

882
00:47:14,290 --> 00:47:16,906
And you really wanted it to happen,

883
00:47:17,209 --> 00:47:19,951
'cause I remember,
when the script came out,

884
00:47:20,254 --> 00:47:24,588
you said, "ok, it's not you.
It's your mother."

885
00:47:24,884 --> 00:47:25,589
That's right.

886
00:47:25,885 --> 00:47:27,696
- Yeah!
- But we never... we never wrote...

887
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:29,990
- You never wrote that one.
- We never wrote the script,

888
00:47:30,014 --> 00:47:31,094
that's all I'm saying.

889
00:47:31,390 --> 00:47:33,972
I remember you coming to me.
No, that was the most...

890
00:47:34,268 --> 00:47:36,708
- Upset I was, yeah.
- Upset you were, without a doubt.

891
00:47:36,812 --> 00:47:39,224
If it hadn't been odo,

892
00:47:39,523 --> 00:47:42,265
I would've loved
for it to be a cardassian.

893
00:47:42,568 --> 00:47:46,356
That would've been a great relationship,
but just not Marc alaimo...

894
00:47:46,655 --> 00:47:47,815
Not, not...

895
00:47:48,115 --> 00:47:50,026
- Gul dukat. Gul dukat...
- Hello!

896
00:47:50,326 --> 00:47:52,486
- Say that again, say that again.
- Gul dukat...

897
00:47:53,204 --> 00:47:54,910
Please just start all over again.

898
00:47:55,247 --> 00:47:57,454
If it hadn't been odo I would've loved

899
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:59,911
to have had a relationship
with a cardassian,

900
00:48:00,628 --> 00:48:02,710
but just not gul dukat.

901
00:48:03,005 --> 00:48:04,211
How about Marc alaimo?

902
00:48:07,051 --> 00:48:08,461
I always felt...

903
00:48:10,012 --> 00:48:12,003
That he was, he wanted her.

904
00:48:13,015 --> 00:48:16,507
And it was easy,
'cause at the time, I wanted her!

905
00:48:18,270 --> 00:48:20,602
Back in the day when the show was on,

906
00:48:20,898 --> 00:48:23,514
without a doubt the most
popular recurring character,

907
00:48:23,818 --> 00:48:26,730
and certainly the most popular
cardassian, was gul dukat.

908
00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:32,649
I would say in 2017,
the most popular character is now garak.

909
00:48:33,327 --> 00:48:34,032
Wow!

910
00:48:34,328 --> 00:48:35,408
- Garak!
- Garak.

911
00:48:35,704 --> 00:48:36,704
- Garak?
- Garak.

912
00:48:36,747 --> 00:48:37,747
- Garak.
- Garak.

913
00:48:37,957 --> 00:48:38,957
It's gonna be garak.

914
00:48:39,166 --> 00:48:40,246
Why garak?

915
00:48:40,918 --> 00:48:42,374
He was the mystery character.

916
00:48:42,670 --> 00:48:45,207
He was the cardassian
on his own on deep space nine.

917
00:48:45,506 --> 00:48:47,588
Why he was there, no one knew.

918
00:48:47,883 --> 00:48:48,883
Was he a spy?

919
00:48:49,135 --> 00:48:54,175
We didn't know, until bashir strikes up
this unusual friendship with garak,

920
00:48:54,473 --> 00:48:58,216
and every time bashir tried to tap
and find out more about garak,

921
00:48:58,894 --> 00:49:00,294
we had more questions than answers.

922
00:49:00,521 --> 00:49:02,557
What did garak think of bashir?

923
00:49:02,857 --> 00:49:03,857
Were they friends?

924
00:49:04,108 --> 00:49:05,348
Did they develop a friendship?

925
00:49:05,651 --> 00:49:07,312
Or was he using him the whole time?

926
00:49:08,279 --> 00:49:12,067
At first, he just wanted to have sex
with him. That's absolutely clear.

927
00:49:12,825 --> 00:49:14,025
That's all he wanted from him.

928
00:49:14,285 --> 00:49:17,118
"Come to my shop,
I got some nice clothes for you...

929
00:49:18,205 --> 00:49:19,820
But you'll have to change first."

930
00:49:20,374 --> 00:49:22,706
But then it really got complicated,

931
00:49:23,002 --> 00:49:27,792
especially when garak's addiction
and despair began to surface.

932
00:49:28,090 --> 00:49:29,955
He needed someone to share it with.

933
00:49:30,509 --> 00:49:34,218
He's the type of mysterious guy in ds9,

934
00:49:34,513 --> 00:49:36,595
tried to live his life as a tailor.

935
00:49:36,891 --> 00:49:41,681
"I forgot all about the tailor.
A fucking tailor. Fuck me!

936
00:49:41,979 --> 00:49:46,097
Ds9 is a religious dogma
disguised as entertainment.”

937
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,517
"How about the tailor..."
The fucking tailor...

938
00:49:51,614 --> 00:49:54,777
"Plain and simple garak,
compounded by the fact

939
00:49:55,075 --> 00:49:57,691
that there only seems to be
about 12 people in the universe

940
00:49:57,995 --> 00:50:01,487
and the inclusion of a lounge singer
as a serious character?"

941
00:50:01,790 --> 00:50:03,621
B Mark.

942
00:50:04,168 --> 00:50:08,537
J out of the tree of life
I just picked me a plum j

943
00:50:11,926 --> 00:50:16,841
j you came along
and everything started to hum j

944
00:50:17,139 --> 00:50:18,800
I love the duet with Avery.

945
00:50:19,099 --> 00:50:20,555
We're having a good time.

946
00:50:20,851 --> 00:50:25,641
And I'm thinking to myself,
"man, captain sisko is singing with me.

947
00:50:25,940 --> 00:50:27,225
Is this, like, too much?

948
00:50:27,525 --> 00:50:29,231
Where the hell did this come from?"

949
00:50:29,527 --> 00:50:31,483
J the best is yet to come j

950
00:50:31,779 --> 00:50:35,363
j come the day you're mine j

951
00:50:36,659 --> 00:50:39,822
dd

952
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:47,082
Vic dealt with simple wisdom.

953
00:50:47,628 --> 00:50:51,962
If he was profound, he was profound
in the simplest way possible.

954
00:50:52,258 --> 00:50:53,919
It's the oldest story in the book.

955
00:50:54,218 --> 00:50:55,418
She thinks of you as a friend.

956
00:50:56,929 --> 00:50:58,169
I wouldn't call that a secret.

957
00:50:58,472 --> 00:51:00,804
But, women have been known
to change their minds,

958
00:51:01,100 --> 00:51:02,556
you just have to give them a reason.

959
00:51:03,852 --> 00:51:06,059
He had great stories, as Jimmy,

960
00:51:06,355 --> 00:51:07,970
that I think the cast liked to hear,

961
00:51:08,274 --> 00:51:11,141
and it relaxed the cast
just being around Jimmy.

962
00:51:11,443 --> 00:51:14,560
I'm dealing with people
who look entirely different,

963
00:51:15,573 --> 00:51:18,235
from anything or anyone else
that I'd ever met

964
00:51:18,534 --> 00:51:20,195
- in my-in my life...
- Yeah.

965
00:51:20,494 --> 00:51:21,779
Even though I'm a hologram.

966
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:25,742
I never said,
"wow, this guy is a weird looking cat."

967
00:51:26,041 --> 00:51:28,783
Like, this guy's got
a different nose or big ears.

968
00:51:29,086 --> 00:51:32,123
He dealt with them like frank
talking to Dean, you know what I mean?

969
00:51:32,423 --> 00:51:35,460
Jimmy and Vic, the character
and the person playing that character,

970
00:51:35,759 --> 00:51:38,922
there's wasn't a lot of difference
between the two of 'em on a lot of levels.

971
00:51:39,221 --> 00:51:41,553
You wanna choose a holo-suite program
for your rehab?

972
00:51:41,849 --> 00:51:42,849
Why not?

973
00:51:43,851 --> 00:51:44,886
Ok, kid!

974
00:51:45,185 --> 00:51:47,665
That's the way you want it,
from now on you're staying with me.

975
00:51:47,980 --> 00:51:48,980
Great!

976
00:51:49,064 --> 00:51:51,146
Nog had a bigger story arc,

977
00:51:51,442 --> 00:51:54,184
than any lead character on other shows.

978
00:51:54,486 --> 00:51:58,070
Nog went from being Jake's buddy
on the promenade,

979
00:51:58,365 --> 00:52:01,357
to being a starfleet officer,
to having his leg blown off.

980
00:52:01,660 --> 00:52:04,276
I mean, show me any character on tng,

981
00:52:04,580 --> 00:52:06,912
that you can trace their story like that.

982
00:52:07,207 --> 00:52:08,822
You can't and that's nog.

983
00:52:09,335 --> 00:52:11,815
Probably no character
on any of the other shows evolved as much

984
00:52:11,962 --> 00:52:14,829
as the least changed character
on deep space nine.

985
00:52:15,132 --> 00:52:18,124
Some of the nicest episodes
were done by the non-regulars.

986
00:52:18,427 --> 00:52:22,136
By the incredible guest stars,
and recurring characters that we had.

987
00:52:22,431 --> 00:52:23,921
Especially, the recurring characters.

988
00:52:24,224 --> 00:52:25,577
I have to hand it to you guys.

989
00:52:25,601 --> 00:52:28,764
Your whole writing staff created
this great complex character

990
00:52:29,063 --> 00:52:31,475
that got to change over time.

991
00:52:32,024 --> 00:52:33,685
A bit early, isn't it?

992
00:52:33,984 --> 00:52:34,984
Even for you.

993
00:52:35,819 --> 00:52:38,019
Just something to warm the bones,
it's freezing in here.

994
00:52:38,238 --> 00:52:39,694
What an arc to play, hmm?

995
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:41,630
- To go from...
- Waiting on weapons, sir.

996
00:52:41,659 --> 00:52:44,150
- To...
- I call upon cardassians everywhere.

997
00:52:45,371 --> 00:52:46,371
Resist.

998
00:52:47,247 --> 00:52:48,327
Resist today.

999
00:52:48,999 --> 00:52:50,034
Resist tomorrow.

1000
00:52:51,377 --> 00:52:53,709
Resist till the last dominion soldier

1001
00:52:54,004 --> 00:52:55,619
has been driven from our soll.

1002
00:52:55,923 --> 00:52:58,255
I don't remember damar
being a big character...

1003
00:52:58,550 --> 00:53:01,311
- He had one line, two lines.
- And so, that's probably the biggest...

1004
00:53:01,345 --> 00:53:03,990
I would call that the biggest
success story, you know, in a weird way.

1005
00:53:04,014 --> 00:53:07,552
There was just a guy who has one line,
who suddenly became so pivotal.

1006
00:53:07,851 --> 00:53:11,218
Leeta was just somebody you'd notice,
and she did that well.

1007
00:53:11,522 --> 00:53:14,480
And so you'd want to write her
the next little dabo piece

1008
00:53:14,775 --> 00:53:16,481
or do something else with rom.

1009
00:53:16,777 --> 00:53:19,063
You just kept finding ways
to get back to them,

1010
00:53:19,363 --> 00:53:21,775
'cause you like them as characters
in the writer's room,

1011
00:53:22,074 --> 00:53:25,862
and before you know it, they were part
of the whole extended family in the show.

1012
00:53:26,161 --> 00:53:28,243
We had a huge recurring cast
on deep space.

1013
00:53:28,539 --> 00:53:33,158
They were 18 or 20 people
on hold every week.

1014
00:53:33,460 --> 00:53:35,438
- There was felecia bell.
- Aron eisenberg.

1015
00:53:35,462 --> 00:53:36,918
- Camille saviola.
- Marc alaimo.

1016
00:53:37,214 --> 00:53:38,920
- Max grodénchik.
- Mark Allen Shepherd.

1017
00:53:39,216 --> 00:53:40,956
- Andrew Robinson.
- Roasalind chao.

1018
00:53:41,260 --> 00:53:42,716
- Hana hatae.
- Wallace Shawn.

1019
00:53:43,011 --> 00:53:44,342
- Tiny Ron.
- Majel Barrett.

1020
00:53:44,638 --> 00:53:46,048
- Louise Fletcher.
- Philip anglim.

1021
00:53:46,348 --> 00:53:47,588
- John colicos.
- Paul dooley.

1022
00:53:47,891 --> 00:53:49,427
- Salome jens.
- Kenneth Marshall.

1023
00:53:49,727 --> 00:53:51,388
- Robert O'Reilly.
- Chase Masterson.

1024
00:53:51,687 --> 00:53:53,018
- Penny Johnson.
- Duncan regehr.

1025
00:53:53,313 --> 00:53:54,974
- J.g. Hertzler.
- Brock Peters.

1026
00:53:55,274 --> 00:53:56,639
- Casey Biggs.
- Melanie Smith.

1027
00:53:56,942 --> 00:53:58,398
- Cecily Adams.
- Barry jenner.

1028
00:53:58,694 --> 00:54:00,309
- William sadler.
- James Darren.

1029
00:54:00,612 --> 00:54:01,943
- Deborah Lacey.
- Jeffrey combs.

1030
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,079
- Jeffrey combs.
- Jeffrey combs.

1031
00:54:04,116 --> 00:54:06,072
I mean, Jeffrey was always up
for anything,

1032
00:54:06,702 --> 00:54:09,034
which is why he could do multiple parts.

1033
00:54:09,329 --> 00:54:13,038
Correct me if I'm wrong, ira,
but if I'm not mistaken,

1034
00:54:13,333 --> 00:54:16,120
the very first episode
that I played as weyoun,

1035
00:54:16,962 --> 00:54:18,498
- I'm killed at the end.
- Yeah.

1036
00:54:18,797 --> 00:54:22,130
So, obviously there was...
I thought it was a one-er.

1037
00:54:22,593 --> 00:54:24,433
It's a one-er when
you get killed at the end...

1038
00:54:24,511 --> 00:54:27,115
- When you get killed at the end!
- It's hard to think of it as a two-er.

1039
00:54:27,139 --> 00:54:29,721
Now mind you, I was killed
by Clarence Williams lll,

1040
00:54:30,017 --> 00:54:31,678
which I thought was the coolest thing.

1041
00:54:31,977 --> 00:54:34,764
- Mod squad, Linc is gonna kill me.
- Yeah.

1042
00:54:35,063 --> 00:54:37,600
If you don't mind,
I'd like to inspect the wreckage.

1043
00:54:42,738 --> 00:54:45,901
That was for questioning our loyalty.

1044
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,067
We wind up enjoying the character so much,

1045
00:54:49,369 --> 00:54:51,806
we killed you, brought you back,
killed you, brought you back.

1046
00:54:51,830 --> 00:54:54,446
- I saw you die.
- That wasn't me.

1047
00:54:54,917 --> 00:54:56,282
At least not exactly.

1048
00:54:56,585 --> 00:54:58,701
There was that group of people
who, indeed,

1049
00:54:59,004 --> 00:55:02,041
almost just sort of felt like
an extended part of our family.

1050
00:55:02,508 --> 00:55:04,749
A band of brothers,
that's what it is.

1051
00:55:05,385 --> 00:55:09,378
It is the company, it is the comradery,

1052
00:55:09,848 --> 00:55:10,848
and it's legit.

1053
00:55:11,517 --> 00:55:14,304
We are always tremendously happy

1054
00:55:14,603 --> 00:55:18,141
to see each other and be with each other.

1055
00:55:21,693 --> 00:55:23,103
"This is mostly not Star Trek.

1056
00:55:23,403 --> 00:55:25,234
No, this is about the insane corruption

1057
00:55:25,531 --> 00:55:26,611
of the Star Trek universe.

1058
00:55:26,907 --> 00:55:28,943
I literally hate the main characters.

1059
00:55:29,243 --> 00:55:31,529
They act like thugs,
blackmailing, coercing.

1060
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:33,410
There seems to be no prime directive,

1061
00:55:33,705 --> 00:55:35,616
or even morality among starfleet.

1062
00:55:36,208 --> 00:55:37,994
It's like a clumsy rip-off of Babylon 5

1063
00:55:38,293 --> 00:55:39,954
which in itself wasn't very good."

1064
00:55:41,046 --> 00:55:44,129
Wow. That must of been
difficult at times for you...

1065
00:55:44,424 --> 00:55:45,819
- What, for me?
- As a writer.

1066
00:55:45,843 --> 00:55:47,208
- Why?
- But, I don't know,

1067
00:55:47,511 --> 00:55:48,967
- I don't...
- I kind of loved it.

1068
00:55:49,263 --> 00:55:50,628
- Oh, you did?
- Yeah, I mean,

1069
00:55:50,931 --> 00:55:53,388
everyone's got their opinion,
and you know,

1070
00:55:53,809 --> 00:55:54,809
they're... if...

1071
00:55:55,018 --> 00:55:56,418
If you're not doing something right

1072
00:55:56,687 --> 00:55:58,473
unless you got people up in arms.

1073
00:55:58,772 --> 00:56:00,875
- That's true...
- That's true of any creative endeavor,

1074
00:56:00,899 --> 00:56:04,312
people aren't bothered by it or don't
like it, you're doing something wrong.

1075
00:56:04,611 --> 00:56:07,273
So, it's nice to know
that we hit a button there.

1076
00:56:07,573 --> 00:56:09,373
It might not be the button
we were aiming for,

1077
00:56:09,449 --> 00:56:10,814
but we definitely hit a button.

1078
00:56:26,717 --> 00:56:27,752
Fire!

1079
00:56:40,355 --> 00:56:42,767
I had some very, very interesting,

1080
00:56:43,066 --> 00:56:46,979
and very memorable
experiences on that show.

1081
00:56:47,279 --> 00:56:49,235
We film this death scene,

1082
00:56:49,531 --> 00:56:52,443
and, you know,
I die in Nicole de boer's arms,

1083
00:56:53,076 --> 00:56:56,159
and it was a cool little death scene.

1084
00:56:56,830 --> 00:57:00,573
And as soon as the director says,
"cut. Ok, print that one,"

1085
00:57:00,876 --> 00:57:07,543
ira loudly, and proudly announces
to the entire crew and cast,

1086
00:57:07,841 --> 00:57:12,380
"ladies and gentlemen,
Star Trek just killed will Robinson!"

1087
00:57:12,679 --> 00:57:13,964
Danger will Robinson!

1088
00:57:14,556 --> 00:57:17,764
I didn't get to go down to the set
that much, certainly for pleasure.

1089
00:57:18,226 --> 00:57:21,309
But the fact that I went down there
fo see that death scene,

1090
00:57:21,605 --> 00:57:23,516
I think speaks of my friendship to you

1091
00:57:23,815 --> 00:57:26,306
that I took the time
out of my busy schedule

1092
00:57:26,610 --> 00:57:27,895
just to make sure you were dead!

1093
00:57:30,155 --> 00:57:34,023
The crew on ds9,
by the time I was there,

1094
00:57:34,326 --> 00:57:35,526
were kind of running on fumes.

1095
00:57:35,661 --> 00:57:37,822
There was a lot of hours on that show.

1096
00:57:38,413 --> 00:57:41,075
Now I've been
in a lot of companies in my life,

1097
00:57:41,375 --> 00:57:43,661
and this was one of the most intense.

1098
00:57:44,962 --> 00:57:48,170
We did wonderful, painful work.

1099
00:57:48,632 --> 00:57:50,623
It was often very painful to do.

1100
00:57:50,926 --> 00:57:54,589
The hours were killing, you know,
and plus we never went out.

1101
00:57:54,888 --> 00:57:57,095
So, you guys were stuck inside.

1102
00:57:57,391 --> 00:57:59,723
And when we did go out,
it was, like, in the desert,

1103
00:58:00,018 --> 00:58:03,806
at 100 degrees, with our make-up melting.

1104
00:58:04,106 --> 00:58:07,644
And it was like a minimum of 16 hours.

1105
00:58:07,943 --> 00:58:09,308
Sixteen, seventeen hours a day...

1106
00:58:09,611 --> 00:58:13,570
Average day was 14 hours.
Sixteen, eighteen was not uncommon.

1107
00:58:13,865 --> 00:58:17,949
I have times where I show up on the set
and the crew on deep space nine,

1108
00:58:18,245 --> 00:58:21,203
they light up with energy because
it's like, "oh, we're gonna do a stunt!"

1109
00:58:21,498 --> 00:58:23,363
But it's easy to come in with great energy

1110
00:58:23,667 --> 00:58:25,703
when you're only there
for one to two days a week.

1111
00:58:26,003 --> 00:58:30,542
You guys are workin' the full deal,
60, 70, 80 hours a week

1112
00:58:31,216 --> 00:58:33,047
and so it's hard to be up all the time.

1113
00:58:33,343 --> 00:58:36,210
You get up at 2:00,
you try to pull your thoughts together,

1114
00:58:36,513 --> 00:58:40,222
you drive down there,
you pull in at around 4:00 A.M.,

1115
00:58:41,018 --> 00:58:44,010
and go to the chair to get made up.

1116
00:58:44,312 --> 00:58:48,430
That was three and a half hours of make-up
and then another half hour of costumes.

1117
00:58:48,984 --> 00:58:51,942
So at 7:30-8:00,
you're called to the set

1118
00:58:52,237 --> 00:58:57,197
and you start approximately
a 15-hour day of shooting.

1119
00:58:57,701 --> 00:58:59,987
I did something that I'd never...

1120
00:59:02,122 --> 00:59:04,033
Done before or since. I...

1121
00:59:04,750 --> 00:59:08,117
I believe I literally
fell asleep on camera,

1122
00:59:08,420 --> 00:59:09,910
which is very unusual

1123
00:59:10,213 --> 00:59:13,705
because, ordinarily, people stay awake
when they're being filmed.

1124
00:59:27,564 --> 00:59:29,604
We needed to distinguish
the gamma quadrant

1125
00:59:29,691 --> 00:59:30,851
from everywhere else.

1126
00:59:31,151 --> 00:59:32,891
That it couldn't just be another frontier,

1127
00:59:33,195 --> 00:59:34,756
it had to had to have something
that would set it apart.

1128
00:59:34,780 --> 00:59:37,220
And then we started talking
about the idea that there would be

1129
00:59:37,282 --> 00:59:39,819
a worthy foe hiding in the gamma quadrant.

1130
00:59:43,038 --> 00:59:47,782
We wanted to break away
from the past and create our own future,

1131
00:59:48,376 --> 00:59:50,332
and that's how the dominion was born.

1132
00:59:50,796 --> 00:59:53,583
But since we were writers and so insecure,

1133
00:59:53,882 --> 00:59:57,374
I said, "we can't risk it all
on one race of villains."

1134
00:59:59,387 --> 01:00:03,596
The marching orders I gave
fo Jim and Pete and Robert,

1135
01:00:03,892 --> 01:00:06,725
was that we were gonna come up
with three villains.

1136
01:00:07,020 --> 01:00:09,386
We created this warrior race,
the jem'hadar,

1137
01:00:09,689 --> 01:00:11,350
and then the face men, the vorta,

1138
01:00:11,650 --> 01:00:14,141
and then behind it,
the founders that ran everything.

1139
01:00:14,861 --> 01:00:17,581
The founders would be the shape-shifters,
they would be odo's people.

1140
01:00:17,697 --> 01:00:19,358
You belong to the dominion, don't you?

1141
01:00:19,658 --> 01:00:20,658
Belong to it?

1142
01:00:21,743 --> 01:00:23,984
Major, the changelings are the dominion.

1143
01:00:24,287 --> 01:00:25,767
When the founders were revealed

1144
01:00:25,914 --> 01:00:28,906
that this was gonna become
a galactic war saga,

1145
01:00:29,209 --> 01:00:30,244
I got really excited.

1146
01:00:30,544 --> 01:00:32,705
Dominion, really, really
well thought out...

1147
01:00:33,004 --> 01:00:34,764
- Yeah, very well thought out.
- Opponents.

1148
01:00:35,048 --> 01:00:37,164
A complex society,
not all the same race.

1149
01:00:37,467 --> 01:00:40,880
Were there any favorite episodes

1150
01:00:41,179 --> 01:00:42,760
that stick out in your mind?

1151
01:00:43,265 --> 01:00:45,722
Yes, the last 10 were my favorite,

1152
01:00:46,017 --> 01:00:48,724
because they were emotional
and suspenseful.

1153
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,516
- The last... episo...
- Ten.

1154
01:00:52,816 --> 01:00:54,101
You mean the dominion war?

1155
01:00:54,401 --> 01:00:55,982
Yes, those were my favorite.

1156
01:00:58,071 --> 01:01:01,029
The dominion wars,
tell me why it was a mistake.

1157
01:01:01,324 --> 01:01:04,782
Gene roddenberry was my symbiont,
he was my curzon Dax.

1158
01:01:05,078 --> 01:01:11,199
Gene was a firm believer that Star Trek
was not a franchise that dealt with wars.

1159
01:01:11,501 --> 01:01:16,461
Looking back 20 years later,
I was most likely... mistaken

1160
01:01:16,756 --> 01:01:20,624
because we got some
remarkable episodes out of it.

1161
01:01:20,927 --> 01:01:23,043
We had this crazy idea
to blow up a ship

1162
01:01:23,346 --> 01:01:25,786
that looked just like the enterprise
as our season two finale,

1163
01:01:25,891 --> 01:01:27,097
and that implied something.

1164
01:01:27,392 --> 01:01:28,912
We needed our own little kind of ship.

1165
01:01:29,186 --> 01:01:31,017
We created the dominion,

1166
01:01:31,313 --> 01:01:34,100
this great enemy of the federation,

1167
01:01:34,399 --> 01:01:36,355
and all we have to fight them

1168
01:01:36,902 --> 01:01:40,394
are these tiny, little, crappy, runabouts.

1169
01:01:40,947 --> 01:01:42,437
It just isn't going to work.

1170
01:01:42,741 --> 01:01:46,950
We needed something with fire power,
something dangerous.

1171
01:01:47,287 --> 01:01:51,030
We come up with this idea
for the defiant and you were not happy.

1172
01:01:52,250 --> 01:01:53,990
You kept saying,
"we can't have a ship.

1173
01:01:54,294 --> 01:01:57,331
Voyager is the ship, deep space nine
is the space station."

1174
01:01:57,631 --> 01:01:59,496
The idea of having this show

1175
01:01:59,799 --> 01:02:03,417
that was going to perhaps
start getting more oriented

1176
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,087
toward our characters
being on board a spaceship,

1177
01:02:07,390 --> 01:02:08,721
while voyager was on the air,

1178
01:02:09,017 --> 01:02:11,429
and while next generation movies
were in production,

1179
01:02:11,728 --> 01:02:12,968
got me a little bit nervous.

1180
01:02:13,271 --> 01:02:16,434
But as usual, you, uh, conned me into it.

1181
01:02:17,108 --> 01:02:19,565
There were very few things
you didn't con me into, ira.

1182
01:02:19,861 --> 01:02:22,227
I thought it was
more of a partnership.

1183
01:02:22,530 --> 01:02:23,610
A warm agreement.

1184
01:02:30,247 --> 01:02:31,247
Excuse me.

1185
01:02:35,293 --> 01:02:36,293
Hello?

1186
01:02:37,087 --> 01:02:39,203
I can't believe you killed nog.

1187
01:02:39,881 --> 01:02:43,499
Andy, it's all theoretical.
It's not a real episode.

1188
01:02:43,802 --> 01:02:47,010
If you touch one hair on Julian's head...

1189
01:02:47,305 --> 01:02:50,718
But that's not why I called.
It's time to show the space battle.

1190
01:02:51,017 --> 01:02:53,349
How do you even know
where we are in the doc?

1191
01:02:53,645 --> 01:02:57,354
Trust me, I know
now show the clip.

1192
01:02:57,649 --> 01:03:01,392
And, ira, if you had to kill someone,

1193
01:03:02,153 --> 01:03:03,734
it should've been worf.

1194
01:03:08,660 --> 01:03:09,660
Ok, then.

1195
01:03:14,666 --> 01:03:16,577
Let's show the battle scene, I guess.

1196
01:03:26,177 --> 01:03:27,212
That's one down!

1197
01:03:27,512 --> 01:03:28,718
Can we shake the other three?

1198
01:03:29,431 --> 01:03:30,591
I'm trying!

1199
01:03:33,893 --> 01:03:35,258
We've lost aft shields!

1200
01:03:35,562 --> 01:03:37,268
Forward shields are down to 15 percent.

1201
01:03:37,564 --> 01:03:39,270
Wouldn't this be a good time to cloak?

1202
01:03:39,566 --> 01:03:40,931
The cloaking system's fried.

1203
01:03:41,318 --> 01:03:44,481
Auxiliary power to weapons.
We're going to fight our way out of this!

1204
01:04:00,670 --> 01:04:01,910
It's the klingons, sir.

1205
01:04:02,213 --> 01:04:02,827
They're here!

1206
01:04:03,131 --> 01:04:06,464
Captain, the klingons have broken a hole
in the dominion lines.

1207
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:08,045
Dax, can you get us through?

1208
01:04:08,345 --> 01:04:09,505
I'd love to try.

1209
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:27,569
So the defiant blows up, killing nog.
We kill nog.

1210
01:04:30,408 --> 01:04:32,399
I'm sorry, guys, someone has to go.

1211
01:04:32,702 --> 01:04:35,114
I drove all the way here thinking,

1212
01:04:35,413 --> 01:04:36,903
o'brien, o'brien, we kill o'brien

1213
01:04:37,207 --> 01:04:39,087
and we'll freak everyone out.

1214
01:04:41,252 --> 01:04:44,244
But by the time I parked,
it was like, nog.

1215
01:04:44,547 --> 01:04:47,254
Damn it, ira, don't kill nog!

1216
01:04:47,884 --> 01:04:49,374
Jesus Christ!

1217
01:04:52,889 --> 01:04:55,489
Ok, did you like that? Was that good?
Ok good.

1218
01:04:58,269 --> 01:05:00,869
This is our opportunity
to kinda set the table of what...

1219
01:05:00,980 --> 01:05:02,740
- Right.
- The situation at the station is.

1220
01:05:02,816 --> 01:05:04,807
Who's putting pressure on Kira?

1221
01:05:05,485 --> 01:05:08,522
It's her major.
Major whatever his name is.

1222
01:05:08,822 --> 01:05:11,029
- Major palik.
- Palik, sure.

1223
01:05:11,533 --> 01:05:15,242
If palik's the guy who's sayin',
the sensor tells us this,

1224
01:05:15,537 --> 01:05:17,118
and the debris field says that...

1225
01:05:17,414 --> 01:05:19,294
His ship was damaged
coming out of the wormhole,

1226
01:05:19,457 --> 01:05:21,322
maybe he had some asteroid debris
that he hit.

1227
01:05:21,626 --> 01:05:24,789
I think he's saying it's an accident,
nothing to see here.

1228
01:05:25,088 --> 01:05:28,706
Cut from that to quark's.
They're in there, and they're drinking.

1229
01:05:29,008 --> 01:05:32,045
It's like they can't believe he's gone,
and then just one person

1230
01:05:32,345 --> 01:05:34,824
just has to raise the
"you know the thing that still bugs me..."

1231
01:05:34,848 --> 01:05:36,575
Then it's like boom, boom, boom.
They all start saying,

1232
01:05:36,599 --> 01:05:38,039
"yeah, you know what?
This is weird."

1233
01:05:38,268 --> 01:05:40,579
- They're trying to piece together...
- What was nog doing?

1234
01:05:40,603 --> 01:05:43,082
- What was he doing?
- He'd been pushing his engines.

1235
01:05:43,106 --> 01:05:44,466
The engines tore themselves apart.

1236
01:05:44,691 --> 01:05:47,091
He wanted to make a big entrance
or something, we don't know.

1237
01:05:47,152 --> 01:05:49,592
- And someone has to be saying "no, hey..."
- Molly.

1238
01:05:49,779 --> 01:05:51,519
"I knew captain nog."

1239
01:05:51,823 --> 01:05:54,135
I don't even know
what you're talking about.

1240
01:05:54,159 --> 01:05:56,775
This is a guy I served with.
This is a guy who I respected.

1241
01:05:57,078 --> 01:05:58,198
This is a man, this is like,

1242
01:05:58,413 --> 01:06:01,621
you guys are talking about a kid
you knew back 20 years ago.

1243
01:06:01,916 --> 01:06:04,578
He drew us here for a reason,
and he had something to tell us

1244
01:06:04,878 --> 01:06:05,998
and then he happened to die.

1245
01:06:06,212 --> 01:06:08,123
- Yeah right...
- It's just too perfect.

1246
01:06:08,423 --> 01:06:10,693
What could be interesting is if worf,
who's now a diplomat

1247
01:06:10,717 --> 01:06:13,504
more than he's a soldier says,
"the treaty of so and so.

1248
01:06:13,803 --> 01:06:16,545
It's very specific when it comes
to the death of federation citizens.

1249
01:06:16,848 --> 01:06:19,931
Ezri, you are in charge
of investigating this."

1250
01:06:21,102 --> 01:06:23,844
- If it's Kira, palik and ezri...
- Yeah.

1251
01:06:24,481 --> 01:06:26,767
And ezri asserting her rights...

1252
01:06:27,066 --> 01:06:29,879
I think ezri can say something
like "look, the treaty of whatever.

1253
01:06:29,903 --> 01:06:32,610
Federation gets to investigate.
We have jurisdiction."

1254
01:06:32,906 --> 01:06:35,238
I think she should
put a clock on it.

1255
01:06:35,533 --> 01:06:38,491
"How long were you planning on staying,
three days?"

1256
01:06:38,786 --> 01:06:40,617
"And then you'll catch your trip home."

1257
01:06:40,914 --> 01:06:43,530
- And then ezri walks out...
- And palik...

1258
01:06:43,833 --> 01:06:47,153
And there's palik, Kira and it's
like, "well, this is gonna be a problem."

1259
01:06:48,087 --> 01:06:50,999
Say beat four is a walk-and-talk
on the upper level of the promenade.

1260
01:06:51,299 --> 01:06:53,665
Kira is talking
to the federation science officer.

1261
01:06:54,010 --> 01:06:57,002
And it's like, listen,
I want you to look at this stuff.

1262
01:06:57,305 --> 01:07:00,468
"You're the best science officer
we have on this station.

1263
01:07:00,767 --> 01:07:03,509
I want you to do this as a favor to me.

1264
01:07:03,811 --> 01:07:06,928
I wanna see whatever you get
before you give it to ezri."

1265
01:07:08,107 --> 01:07:10,473
She walks away,
he's staring out the window.

1266
01:07:10,777 --> 01:07:12,187
Jake comes up.

1267
01:07:13,821 --> 01:07:15,841
"Were you ever gonna come
to say hello to me?"

1268
01:07:15,865 --> 01:07:18,732
He goes, "hey I've been here,
you're the one who arrived.”

1269
01:07:19,494 --> 01:07:21,359
Turns out he is Joseph sisko.

1270
01:07:21,663 --> 01:07:24,245
Joseph yates-sisko...

1271
01:07:24,541 --> 01:07:26,541
The reveal that this is
sisko's other son?

1272
01:07:27,502 --> 01:07:29,493
I think Jake reveals
that he's seen his father.

1273
01:07:29,796 --> 01:07:31,276
"I came here because I had a vision."

1274
01:07:31,714 --> 01:07:33,579
"He came to me, he told me to come home."

1275
01:07:38,930 --> 01:07:41,967
What was your favorite mission
you've been on in deep space nine?

1276
01:07:42,475 --> 01:07:43,475
My favorite mission?

1277
01:07:45,436 --> 01:07:48,018
My favorite mission was raising Jake.

1278
01:07:48,815 --> 01:07:50,897
Come on. Come on, man!

1279
01:07:51,651 --> 01:07:54,609
And... the blue light is on,

1280
01:07:54,904 --> 01:07:57,065
and it's fading away,
and it's fading away...

1281
01:07:57,365 --> 01:07:59,606
And he's fading away,
and now he brings him up...

1282
01:07:59,909 --> 01:08:02,025
Excuse me... come on!

1283
01:08:02,328 --> 01:08:03,728
Start from the top, from the top.

1284
01:08:04,497 --> 01:08:05,612
- Sorry...
- Come on, man.

1285
01:08:05,915 --> 01:08:07,496
- Sorry.
- All right, here we go.

1286
01:08:07,792 --> 01:08:09,123
And he slowly comes up...

1287
01:08:16,175 --> 01:08:17,210
And...

1288
01:08:17,885 --> 01:08:18,885
Cut! Good!

1289
01:08:20,305 --> 01:08:23,889
I realize the significance and importance
of the small things that we did

1290
01:08:24,183 --> 01:08:26,595
that Avery was aware of.

1291
01:08:26,894 --> 01:08:28,384
I didn't realize it at the time,

1292
01:08:28,688 --> 01:08:30,528
but it was important for him
to set a precedent

1293
01:08:30,815 --> 01:08:32,806
for a black man raising a child,

1294
01:08:33,109 --> 01:08:35,145
being there, being a father,

1295
01:08:35,445 --> 01:08:37,185
being involved in his child's life,

1296
01:08:37,488 --> 01:08:39,820
having that as his primary concern
in life.

1297
01:08:40,116 --> 01:08:43,404
It was a reality of the disproportionate...

1298
01:08:43,703 --> 01:08:47,787
Disproportionate number
of-of brown, male children

1299
01:08:48,082 --> 01:08:50,915
without father figures, et cetera.

1300
01:08:51,502 --> 01:08:53,208
So, it was very important to me,

1301
01:08:53,796 --> 01:08:56,788
that that relationship, you know,
remained strong.

1302
01:08:57,175 --> 01:09:01,214
He was creating a role model
for people to follow,

1303
01:09:01,512 --> 01:09:03,002
particularly African-American men,

1304
01:09:03,306 --> 01:09:05,547
in terms of how to treat your son.

1305
01:09:07,185 --> 01:09:09,597
I thought that he did
such an outstanding job

1306
01:09:09,896 --> 01:09:12,433
with the creation
of his relationship with Jake.

1307
01:09:12,732 --> 01:09:16,441
The bond that the two of them had,
off-camera,

1308
01:09:16,736 --> 01:09:20,979
I thought for a moment
that Avery was his daddy...

1309
01:09:21,282 --> 01:09:25,241
Because they had
such a wonderful strength together.

1310
01:09:25,703 --> 01:09:28,223
When we weren't working,
he'd take me to a basketball game.

1311
01:09:28,247 --> 01:09:29,908
He took me to my first Lakers game,

1312
01:09:30,208 --> 01:09:33,166
uh, introduced me
to Jerry buss and magic Johnson,

1313
01:09:33,836 --> 01:09:36,418
and introduced me as his son,
with his son.

1314
01:09:37,131 --> 01:09:41,124
You know, "these are my children," that's
how he would, you know, introduce me.

1315
01:09:41,719 --> 01:09:45,382
And, um, I felt like part of his family,

1316
01:09:45,682 --> 01:09:47,673
I felt the love, I still feel that way.

1317
01:09:47,975 --> 01:09:50,091
He hasn't let go at all, you know.

1318
01:09:50,395 --> 01:09:53,307
We still maintain
a very close relationship.

1319
01:09:54,232 --> 01:09:55,232
What?

1320
01:09:59,070 --> 01:10:00,731
I was just thinking...

1321
01:10:01,322 --> 01:10:03,404
How much you look like your mom.

1322
01:10:03,700 --> 01:10:07,363
When you look up
black shows in the 90s,

1323
01:10:08,454 --> 01:10:10,445
you won't find our show,

1324
01:10:11,582 --> 01:10:13,573
on the list, at all.

1325
01:10:13,876 --> 01:10:16,583
Recently there was this show
on CNN called the 90s.

1326
01:10:16,879 --> 01:10:19,666
And on the episode dealing with television,

1327
01:10:20,007 --> 01:10:21,963
they stated something

1328
01:10:22,510 --> 01:10:24,546
that surprised me

1329
01:10:24,846 --> 01:10:26,802
and really kind of pissed me off.

1330
01:10:27,223 --> 01:10:28,884
The 90s gave us several shows

1331
01:10:29,183 --> 01:10:31,845
that didn't really explode in the ratings

1332
01:10:32,145 --> 01:10:34,887
but were very influential
to other people making television.

1333
01:10:35,231 --> 01:10:36,437
Homicide is one of them.

1334
01:10:36,733 --> 01:10:40,225
They had so many African-American
characters in the cast,

1335
01:10:40,528 --> 01:10:43,645
that on several occasions,
they were the only people

1336
01:10:43,948 --> 01:10:45,779
on camera interacting with one another.

1337
01:10:46,576 --> 01:10:48,692
And that sounds like, "so?"

1338
01:10:48,995 --> 01:10:52,829
But as late as the 90s,
that wasn't done on television.

1339
01:10:54,208 --> 01:10:55,243
It's not true.

1340
01:10:55,543 --> 01:10:59,001
One of the identifying traits
of deep space nine,

1341
01:10:59,297 --> 01:11:03,290
was that we had many scenes
with an all-black cast.

1342
01:11:03,593 --> 01:11:05,504
Ira behr came to me,

1343
01:11:05,803 --> 01:11:07,839
he said, "I have this idea

1344
01:11:09,182 --> 01:11:11,298
and I wanna know
whether you are interested,

1345
01:11:11,601 --> 01:11:14,308
because you will be
in front of the camera,

1346
01:11:14,604 --> 01:11:16,640
but I also wanna know
if you wanna direct."

1347
01:11:17,273 --> 01:11:19,434
I said "well, ok."

1348
01:11:20,943 --> 01:11:23,685
And, you know,
because of the writing of it,

1349
01:11:24,155 --> 01:11:26,271
because it talked about 1953,

1350
01:11:26,574 --> 01:11:29,987
because it talked about who we are
or who we were,

1351
01:11:30,495 --> 01:11:33,737
this idea of this brown man,

1352
01:11:34,248 --> 01:11:37,081
writing this science fiction,

1353
01:11:37,752 --> 01:11:39,708
I thought that was incredibly clever.

1354
01:11:40,087 --> 01:11:43,625
Originally, on our director's schedule
for that season,

1355
01:11:43,925 --> 01:11:46,917
Avery wasn't scheduled to direct
far beyond the stars,

1356
01:11:47,428 --> 01:11:49,840
and I think as we talked about it more,
it became clear,

1357
01:11:50,139 --> 01:11:52,801
we can't not have Avery
direct that episode,

1358
01:11:53,100 --> 01:11:56,092
because it's all about representing

1359
01:11:56,395 --> 01:11:59,057
this struggle in our country's past

1360
01:11:59,357 --> 01:12:00,893
and, in some senses, the present.

1361
01:12:02,109 --> 01:12:05,852
He didn't wanna publish my story,
and we all know why.

1362
01:12:06,614 --> 01:12:08,605
Because my hero is a colored man!

1363
01:12:08,908 --> 01:12:11,069
Hey! This magazine belongs to Mr. stone.

1364
01:12:11,369 --> 01:12:14,097
If he doesn't want to publish this month
we don't publish this month, end of story.

1365
01:12:14,121 --> 01:12:16,954
When Benny Russell had his breakdown,

1366
01:12:17,542 --> 01:12:21,455
that was more realistic, I think,
than most of the fans realized.

1367
01:12:21,754 --> 01:12:24,962
- To hell with you...
- Avery was so deeply into the character,

1368
01:12:25,466 --> 01:12:28,299
that he went down and stayed down.

1369
01:12:29,053 --> 01:12:31,715
There are things
I don't remember in my life,

1370
01:12:32,014 --> 01:12:34,255
but I can see him on the floor.

1371
01:12:34,559 --> 01:12:38,973
He falls to the floor,
and I'm saying, "well, I gotta say cut.

1372
01:12:39,272 --> 01:12:42,139
But how long should I let this go on?"

1373
01:12:42,441 --> 01:12:45,604
They called cut, and he's not coming out.

1374
01:12:45,903 --> 01:12:48,235
And I know what that feels like
as an actor.

1375
01:12:49,073 --> 01:12:52,486
You're gone, and he was... he was gone.

1376
01:12:52,785 --> 01:12:55,745
If I'd stood there for a half
an hour, I think he would have kept on.

1377
01:12:55,913 --> 01:12:59,201
He was very committed to that part
and very committed to that scene.

1378
01:12:59,625 --> 01:13:04,210
He would say,
"well, we want those moments on set."

1379
01:13:04,505 --> 01:13:07,497
He would say it as a director,
"we want god to show up."

1380
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:11,213
Meaning it's beyond control,

1381
01:13:11,512 --> 01:13:12,832
it could go one way or the other.

1382
01:13:13,097 --> 01:13:15,804
You don't know, it's dangerous,
it's dangerous acting.

1383
01:13:16,100 --> 01:13:19,388
So it was-it was scary and wonderful.

1384
01:13:21,689 --> 01:13:22,769
Can I have my drawing back?

1385
01:13:22,982 --> 01:13:24,518
Hey, boy.

1386
01:13:24,817 --> 01:13:26,808
I'd watch that tone of voice
if I were you.

1387
01:13:27,111 --> 01:13:32,071
Having an African-American captain
right after these L.A. riots,

1388
01:13:32,366 --> 01:13:35,028
I think that gives the show
some real weight,

1389
01:13:35,328 --> 01:13:38,320
and of course in my classroom,
using Star Trek: Deep space nine,

1390
01:13:38,623 --> 01:13:40,659
particularly the episode
far beyond the stars,

1391
01:13:40,958 --> 01:13:42,823
that is where I really bring in

1392
01:13:43,127 --> 01:13:44,788
the experiences of the early 90s.

1393
01:13:45,087 --> 01:13:46,702
When we were doing the show,

1394
01:13:47,006 --> 01:13:49,998
Rodney king was getting beat
on television.

1395
01:13:50,301 --> 01:13:51,791
Twenty-five years later...

1396
01:13:53,429 --> 01:13:56,887
Black people are getting beaten
and killed on television.

1397
01:13:57,183 --> 01:13:59,299
We haven't advanced much.

1398
01:14:00,561 --> 01:14:01,721
- Yeah!
- Yeah!

1399
01:14:02,021 --> 01:14:04,262
We got pulled over
for a busted tail light...

1400
01:14:07,318 --> 01:14:10,481
You also had people,
very fine people, on both sides.

1401
01:14:17,286 --> 01:14:22,952
The bottom line is,
when people cannot come to the conclusion

1402
01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:26,834
that every person on this planet,

1403
01:14:27,129 --> 01:14:31,088
is worth treating as a human being,

1404
01:14:31,384 --> 01:14:35,002
when we cannot agree on that basic,

1405
01:14:35,304 --> 01:14:37,010
most basic concept,

1406
01:14:37,306 --> 01:14:39,763
don't talk to me about 400 years from now.

1407
01:15:07,086 --> 01:15:08,766
The good news is,
is this is gonna be

1408
01:15:09,005 --> 01:15:10,620
- a short act.
- Yes.

1409
01:15:11,215 --> 01:15:15,174
So act three is, then they have to do
whatever investigation they're gonna do.

1410
01:15:15,469 --> 01:15:18,336
The question is still open.
What was nog up to?

1411
01:15:18,639 --> 01:15:21,130
What was he doing in the days
leading up to his death?

1412
01:15:22,810 --> 01:15:25,210
Just to pitch it, there's something
really interesting about,

1413
01:15:25,438 --> 01:15:27,224
if we have a detective on this show.

1414
01:15:27,815 --> 01:15:30,477
If we have a cop on this show, it's odo,

1415
01:15:31,027 --> 01:15:33,518
and what he comes back for is

1416
01:15:33,821 --> 01:15:35,937
to figure out who murdered nog.

1417
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:38,196
If Kira asks for his help, then I buy it.

1418
01:15:38,492 --> 01:15:40,572
If Kira goes to him and says,
"nog has been murdered.

1419
01:15:40,661 --> 01:15:42,822
I need you.
I need you to figure this out,"

1420
01:15:43,122 --> 01:15:44,862
he'll do it for her, that I buy.

1421
01:15:45,166 --> 01:15:49,125
We can easily save odo
for another episode.

1422
01:15:50,588 --> 01:15:52,954
I'm just saying,
it's ok to keep them wanting more.

1423
01:15:53,257 --> 01:15:54,526
- Sure, sure...
- You know?

1424
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:56,310
Now I really believe
we could do 26 episodes.

1425
01:15:56,510 --> 01:15:58,842
- I'm on board now...
- Twenty-six?

1426
01:16:00,931 --> 01:16:04,799
- So, ops, where are we?
- Somebody's quarters.

1427
01:16:11,150 --> 01:16:14,142
Ezri, she walks in the door
if you play it from the beginning.

1428
01:16:15,237 --> 01:16:17,477
And maybe we say
this is the entire starfleet contingent.

1429
01:16:18,699 --> 01:16:20,735
And she says,
"you guys are livin' in the boonies!"

1430
01:16:21,035 --> 01:16:22,795
They say,
"yeah, well, that's our life here."

1431
01:16:23,412 --> 01:16:24,902
Somebody says something like,

1432
01:16:25,206 --> 01:16:27,743
"nog got obsessed with something
in the last couple of weeks.

1433
01:16:28,042 --> 01:16:30,875
He didn't talk about it,
but he knew it was important.

1434
01:16:31,253 --> 01:16:33,619
And I don't know what happened,
but I know that he and Kira

1435
01:16:33,923 --> 01:16:36,084
- had a major blowout..."
- That's good...

1436
01:16:36,383 --> 01:16:38,044
"The day before he left,"
or whatever...

1437
01:16:38,344 --> 01:16:40,947
- Had a blow out with Kira?
- "Well, she didn't tell us about that."

1438
01:16:40,971 --> 01:16:43,252
- Yeah.
- You know, and then you go back to Kira,

1439
01:16:43,390 --> 01:16:45,327
"hey, you failed to mention
that you and nog had..."

1440
01:16:45,351 --> 01:16:46,887
"Well, because that is irrelevant.

1441
01:16:47,228 --> 01:16:47,933
He died in an accident,

1442
01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:50,429
what we were arguing about
has nothing to do with that."

1443
01:16:50,689 --> 01:16:52,667
I would have her not say it's an accident.
What I would say is,

1444
01:16:52,691 --> 01:16:54,272
"I'm going to handle this."

1445
01:16:54,568 --> 01:16:56,008
- That's better.
- Yeah.

1446
01:16:56,112 --> 01:16:58,398
"Look, it's not 20 years ago.

1447
01:16:58,697 --> 01:17:00,608
This isn't your job anymore.

1448
01:17:00,908 --> 01:17:05,026
This is gonna get handled,
but I want you off the station. Go home."

1449
01:17:06,831 --> 01:17:08,551
This is on the klingon ship, right?

1450
01:17:08,666 --> 01:17:11,874
Worf is executing
the afternoon's batch of prisoners.

1451
01:17:12,795 --> 01:17:15,753
"Today is a good day to die for you
and you and you."

1452
01:17:17,341 --> 01:17:20,629
What I thought,
you beam worf down to bajor.

1453
01:17:23,931 --> 01:17:25,546
And then garak appears.

1454
01:17:28,185 --> 01:17:31,745
- They're not particularly friendly...
- They still didn't like each other.

1455
01:17:31,814 --> 01:17:33,679
But it's, what the hell's going on?

1456
01:17:33,983 --> 01:17:35,598
Don't trust the bajorans.

1457
01:17:35,901 --> 01:17:38,392
- "Including Kira?" "Especially Kira."
- Yeah,

1458
01:17:38,696 --> 01:17:40,061
you know, it's that kind of...

1459
01:17:40,364 --> 01:17:42,776
Well, why wouldn't garak reach out
to bashir or...

1460
01:17:43,075 --> 01:17:45,942
He knows worf is a man of honor
who will act on this information.

1461
01:17:46,245 --> 01:17:49,328
Worf is a klingon,
and this time we klingon rules.

1462
01:17:49,623 --> 01:17:51,614
We need someone
who's gonna get pissed off.

1463
01:17:52,334 --> 01:17:55,576
Garak says, "martok wanted proof.
I've got proof, here it is."

1464
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:58,246
And he pulls out a thing,
and he shows him.

1465
01:17:58,716 --> 01:18:01,674
"Here is vedek Kira
on a missionary excursion."

1466
01:18:02,511 --> 01:18:03,921
"Those are jem'hadar."

1467
01:18:04,221 --> 01:18:05,949
- "Yes, they've converted.”
- They haven't announced it yet...

1468
01:18:05,973 --> 01:18:07,588
They haven't announced it yet,

1469
01:18:07,892 --> 01:18:09,598
but you're looking
at the new bajoran army.

1470
01:18:10,186 --> 01:18:13,724
Yeah, and we think nog got onto that,
and that's why he was killed.

1471
01:18:14,023 --> 01:18:16,856
"You have no friends here,
trust no one."

1472
01:18:17,151 --> 01:18:18,687
- Trust no one.
- No one.

1473
01:18:28,662 --> 01:18:31,244
- Commander worf!
- Chief.

1474
01:18:31,540 --> 01:18:34,202
- It has been a long time.
- Too long, welcome aboard!

1475
01:18:36,170 --> 01:18:37,751
Just what this station needs,

1476
01:18:38,130 --> 01:18:39,210
another klingon.

1477
01:18:39,506 --> 01:18:44,045
I don't remember whether I was asked
by the studio to bring worf on

1478
01:18:44,345 --> 01:18:47,007
or to bring
a next generation character on.

1479
01:18:47,306 --> 01:18:49,388
I get a call in my hotel room from Rick,

1480
01:18:49,683 --> 01:18:51,969
and he said, um,
"I wanna ask you something.

1481
01:18:52,269 --> 01:18:54,681
How would you feel about
coming back on deep space?"

1482
01:18:55,522 --> 01:18:58,889
The studio was concerned
that we weren't doing well enough

1483
01:18:59,193 --> 01:19:00,393
and that we needed to compete.

1484
01:19:00,653 --> 01:19:03,373
They just sort of gave us one of
the greatest hits from another show,

1485
01:19:03,489 --> 01:19:05,689
and brought him on to our show and said,
"make it work."

1486
01:19:05,866 --> 01:19:10,951
I thought it would be a little difficult
for some people.

1487
01:19:11,247 --> 01:19:15,911
It pissed us off, not because of Michael,
Michael's a lovely man.

1488
01:19:16,210 --> 01:19:18,747
It was an acknowledgment,
certainly of tng,

1489
01:19:19,046 --> 01:19:23,085
which had been a huge success,
and was making movies and all that stuff,

1490
01:19:23,384 --> 01:19:24,544
that's where I felt slighted.

1491
01:19:24,718 --> 01:19:27,718
I get the klingon thing we can bring
that in, but I wasn't excited about it.

1492
01:19:27,763 --> 01:19:28,763
I was nervous.

1493
01:19:29,014 --> 01:19:32,256
I felt like it was a threat
to my character.

1494
01:19:32,559 --> 01:19:36,017
I thought that he would suddenly be
the right hand man,

1495
01:19:36,313 --> 01:19:38,725
and I would be demoted
to bringing them coffee.

1496
01:19:39,024 --> 01:19:41,481
Maybe it's a sign of my, perhaps,

1497
01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:45,190
lack of engagement
toward things in the world,

1498
01:19:45,489 --> 01:19:47,289
but it never occurred to me
to go beyond that.

1499
01:19:47,491 --> 01:19:48,731
I was delighted to see Michael,

1500
01:19:48,951 --> 01:19:50,407
I had known Michael from tng,

1501
01:19:50,703 --> 01:19:53,556
and, you know, delighted to see him there.
He's a great guy, and a terrific actor.

1502
01:19:53,580 --> 01:19:56,538
People ask me,
"what was your favorite episode?"

1503
01:19:56,834 --> 01:20:00,167
You know, and I say,
"well, my best was on deep space nine.

1504
01:20:00,462 --> 01:20:04,205
There were two klingon episodes
that were just shakespearean and epic."

1505
01:20:04,508 --> 01:20:05,828
I mean, they were just beautiful.

1506
01:20:06,427 --> 01:20:08,467
Once more into the breach,
where kor dies,

1507
01:20:08,595 --> 01:20:10,301
and soldiers of the empire.

1508
01:20:10,931 --> 01:20:13,718
That's Star Trek, that's klingons.

1509
01:20:14,018 --> 01:20:16,680
On the enterprise
I was considered to be quite amusing.

1510
01:20:17,271 --> 01:20:18,886
That must of been one dull ship.

1511
01:20:19,189 --> 01:20:21,145
He was the most dour klingon,

1512
01:20:21,442 --> 01:20:23,228
even as a kick-ass klingon.

1513
01:20:23,527 --> 01:20:26,109
You gave him sex appeal, and he gave you

1514
01:20:26,405 --> 01:20:28,942
the right to become "action Barbie, '

1515
01:20:29,241 --> 01:20:31,469
- or whatever you wanna call it.
- Right, right. Oh that was levar!

1516
01:20:31,493 --> 01:20:33,734
Levar Burton was directing
one of the episodes,

1517
01:20:34,038 --> 01:20:36,120
and levar had called me "action Barbie",

1518
01:20:36,415 --> 01:20:38,201
and I was like "yes!"
That was so cool.

1519
01:20:38,500 --> 01:20:40,957
Suddenly Dax could dust it up
with the best of 'em...

1520
01:20:41,253 --> 01:20:42,288
I loved it!

1521
01:20:42,588 --> 01:20:44,388
Do you remember coming up to me
and telling me

1522
01:20:44,506 --> 01:20:46,346
- you were gonna make Dax more roguish?
- Yeah!

1523
01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:49,257
I was so excited when you said that!
Yes!

1524
01:20:49,553 --> 01:20:52,386
- Doesn't she ever lose?
- Ahh. Don't you wish!

1525
01:20:52,681 --> 01:20:54,797
All of that gave me more depth,

1526
01:20:55,100 --> 01:20:57,341
it gave me something rich to pull on.

1527
01:20:57,686 --> 01:21:01,224
When she came into the show,
she did not know what she was doing.

1528
01:21:01,523 --> 01:21:03,603
She didn't know how fo act,
she didn't know anything.

1529
01:21:03,776 --> 01:21:05,061
This was her graduate school.

1530
01:21:05,361 --> 01:21:08,649
She just got better and better
and more confident.

1531
01:21:09,073 --> 01:21:10,734
At the end of the fifth season,

1532
01:21:11,033 --> 01:21:13,115
before the sixth season ever started,

1533
01:21:14,328 --> 01:21:15,328
um...

1534
01:21:15,704 --> 01:21:19,538
That's when negotiations were supposed
to start for the seventh season.

1535
01:21:19,833 --> 01:21:23,417
Like, a certain group of us
was given a take it or leave it offer.

1536
01:21:23,712 --> 01:21:26,624
There was no obligation to go forward,

1537
01:21:27,549 --> 01:21:29,631
but, naturally,

1538
01:21:29,927 --> 01:21:32,213
um... you want to.

1539
01:21:37,768 --> 01:21:39,759
You broke my heart a little bit.

1540
01:21:40,354 --> 01:21:41,685
My heart was broken too.

1541
01:21:42,981 --> 01:21:46,644
The last season when I was told
by one of our producers

1542
01:21:46,944 --> 01:21:48,344
that I was really lucky to be there

1543
01:21:48,404 --> 01:21:51,521
and I really should sign the next contract

1544
01:21:51,824 --> 01:21:54,406
because if I weren't there on the set,
I'd be at kmart.

1545
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:57,151
That was the last straw for me.

1546
01:21:57,454 --> 01:21:59,933
She's definitely coming back,
I don't care what they're saying.

1547
01:21:59,957 --> 01:22:01,117
I just refused to believe it.

1548
01:22:01,291 --> 01:22:03,686
- Yeah, I couldn't understand that...
- 'Cause we had the whole...

1549
01:22:03,710 --> 01:22:06,326
- The worf story was a big... success.
- Yeah.

1550
01:22:07,089 --> 01:22:09,751
How did Terry Farrell get away
that late in the game?

1551
01:22:10,217 --> 01:22:12,378
They usually only get to you
as a studio head

1552
01:22:12,678 --> 01:22:14,464
after they've had the same conversation

1553
01:22:14,763 --> 01:22:16,754
in a different way
with the executive producers.

1554
01:22:17,057 --> 01:22:20,390
What I didn't appreciate was
somebody not talking to me.

1555
01:22:20,686 --> 01:22:23,428
And I really felt like
it was important to be heard.

1556
01:22:23,730 --> 01:22:27,143
If you think I'm valuable,
how come I'm not being listened to?

1557
01:22:27,443 --> 01:22:29,604
I remember distinctly,

1558
01:22:29,903 --> 01:22:33,395
you know, one meeting where she came
into my office and was crying,

1559
01:22:33,699 --> 01:22:38,318
and she felt that there were
opportunities for her in network shows,

1560
01:22:38,620 --> 01:22:41,703
and she said that,
"I just want out."

1561
01:22:41,999 --> 01:22:43,705
I didn't want to die,

1562
01:22:44,001 --> 01:22:46,062
but there was a point where it was like,
you know what?

1563
01:22:46,086 --> 01:22:47,496
Don't dismiss me!

1564
01:22:47,838 --> 01:22:48,838
Talk to me!

1565
01:22:49,131 --> 01:22:52,294
I can't imagine
that anybody wanted her to go away.

1566
01:22:52,593 --> 01:22:53,708
She was good.

1567
01:22:54,011 --> 01:22:56,093
Only the people involved know the facts.

1568
01:22:56,388 --> 01:22:59,255
We just know what people wanna tell us.

1569
01:23:00,309 --> 01:23:02,470
- Who died there?
- Jadzial

1570
01:23:03,145 --> 01:23:06,478
- she died in the shrine.
- Jadzia died in the shrine.

1571
01:23:09,943 --> 01:23:11,649
End of season six.

1572
01:23:16,325 --> 01:23:17,325
That's how we got ezri.

1573
01:23:19,119 --> 01:23:20,180
I thought she died on a ship

1574
01:23:20,204 --> 01:23:23,788
and ezri was the only one
that could take her trill... ness.

1575
01:23:25,125 --> 01:23:28,538
- Yeah?
- She died on the station,

1576
01:23:28,837 --> 01:23:32,204
and ezri was the closest trill
to deep space nine,

1577
01:23:32,508 --> 01:23:34,194
- or something like that?
- Yeah, that's it.

1578
01:23:34,218 --> 01:23:35,938
- Something like that.
- I wasn't even there

1579
01:23:36,136 --> 01:23:38,573
- and I remember it better than you.
- I thought she died on a ship.

1580
01:23:38,597 --> 01:23:40,450
I know this has been a hard time for you,
old man, but...

1581
01:23:40,474 --> 01:23:42,089
Don't call me that!

1582
01:23:42,392 --> 01:23:45,134
I'm not the old man,
I'm not curzon or jadzia.

1583
01:23:45,437 --> 01:23:48,019
No, you're ezri, ezri Dax.

1584
01:23:48,315 --> 01:23:52,809
When ezri came along, I thought that was
a smart addition, out of necessity,

1585
01:23:53,111 --> 01:23:56,478
and to make her a follow-up Dax
was brilliant as well,

1586
01:23:56,782 --> 01:24:00,115
because you still had the essence
of what the audience knew,

1587
01:24:00,410 --> 01:24:01,890
yet it's something new and different.

1588
01:24:01,954 --> 01:24:03,740
It makes so much sense
that it be someone

1589
01:24:04,039 --> 01:24:06,621
who continues on
one of your loved characters.

1590
01:24:06,917 --> 01:24:11,160
You know, you now get to still
see how everybody feels

1591
01:24:11,463 --> 01:24:13,328
about losing jadzia through ezri.

1592
01:24:15,634 --> 01:24:20,219
By-by this horrible collision
of losing Terry

1593
01:24:20,514 --> 01:24:22,846
and bringing on a new character,

1594
01:24:23,141 --> 01:24:24,847
it gave you a whole... bang!

1595
01:24:25,143 --> 01:24:26,758
It'll be just like old times.

1596
01:24:27,896 --> 01:24:29,136
Except, different.

1597
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:31,020
Nicole had a strength about her.

1598
01:24:31,316 --> 01:24:33,102
- And she had a spark.
- Yeah.

1599
01:24:33,402 --> 01:24:36,130
And, she was up for it. There were a lot
of people that wouldn't consider that,

1600
01:24:36,154 --> 01:24:38,110
because they felt like
it was the last year,

1601
01:24:38,407 --> 01:24:39,647
and she embraced it completely.

1602
01:24:39,908 --> 01:24:42,866
I did feel like Alice in wonderland

1603
01:24:43,161 --> 01:24:45,277
being dropped into this amazing,

1604
01:24:45,581 --> 01:24:48,823
fleshed out,
realized world of rich characters

1605
01:24:49,126 --> 01:24:51,162
that I got to play with,

1606
01:24:51,461 --> 01:24:53,821
but it was tempered
with the fact that there's gonna be fans

1607
01:24:54,089 --> 01:24:55,920
that aren't gonna like me, ever.

1608
01:24:56,216 --> 01:24:59,128
This is just, forget about that,
you know that, it's fact.

1609
01:24:59,428 --> 01:25:01,134
We were introducing a new character,

1610
01:25:01,430 --> 01:25:03,750
which was really fun to write.
She was really fun to write.

1611
01:25:03,890 --> 01:25:07,678
I do remember liking how it changed
the dynamics of her and worf.

1612
01:25:07,978 --> 01:25:10,811
I can't believe I'm stuck here with youl!

1613
01:25:11,106 --> 01:25:13,746
Perhaps you would rather be back
on the station with captain boday.

1614
01:25:13,817 --> 01:25:15,057
You sli' vak!

1615
01:25:21,658 --> 01:25:24,338
When Nicole came on the show,
there was an easy way to go:

1616
01:25:24,536 --> 01:25:27,278
Ok, they're gonna get back together,
and you just went, blip!

1617
01:25:28,498 --> 01:25:30,534
- Julian?
- Yes.

1618
01:25:31,585 --> 01:25:33,667
- We have to get up.
- Are you sure?

1619
01:25:34,421 --> 01:25:37,288
The big pressure was,
when I started working on deep space nine,

1620
01:25:37,591 --> 01:25:40,082
I was supposed to be a sexy dude.

1621
01:25:40,385 --> 01:25:43,377
I had never got the girl, you know.

1622
01:25:43,930 --> 01:25:45,761
In the beginning
I wasn't really a huge fan.

1623
01:25:46,058 --> 01:25:49,058
Everyone hated him at the beginning.
He was just like a really annoying guy.

1624
01:25:49,186 --> 01:25:52,053
I'm aware that I have a tendency
to run off at the mouth sometimes.

1625
01:25:52,356 --> 01:25:54,250
- Is that a fact?
- Suppose it's just a nervous habit.

1626
01:25:54,274 --> 01:25:56,419
- I hope you don't hold it against me.
- Oh, not at all, sir.

1627
01:25:56,443 --> 01:25:58,123
Julian bashir was too immature.

1628
01:25:58,362 --> 01:26:01,445
Intellectually far more cooked
than he is emotionally.

1629
01:26:02,741 --> 01:26:05,778
Terry Farrell,
she was suddenly my love interest.

1630
01:26:06,078 --> 01:26:09,536
I was punching above my weight
when I was on the same stage with Terry.

1631
01:26:10,332 --> 01:26:12,368
Yes.

1632
01:26:12,668 --> 01:26:15,080
- All of them?
- You heard her, Julian.

1633
01:26:15,379 --> 01:26:19,247
Jadzia had no need for bashir.
When ezri came along...

1634
01:26:19,549 --> 01:26:21,756
- Good morning.
- Good morning.

1635
01:26:22,052 --> 01:26:23,963
It's like she was not intimidating.

1636
01:26:24,262 --> 01:26:28,426
She seemed to need bashir
as much as bashir needed her.

1637
01:26:28,725 --> 01:26:32,183
Finally, in season seven,
a love story for bashir that worked.

1638
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:33,479
Oh, right!

1639
01:26:33,563 --> 01:26:35,929
And who, originally,
way, way back,

1640
01:26:36,233 --> 01:26:38,473
was obsessed with her.
And she thought he was so callous.

1641
01:26:38,735 --> 01:26:40,535
- Yeah!
- You know? We made lemonade.

1642
01:26:41,405 --> 01:26:44,238
Dr. bashir became
a lot more complex by the end.

1643
01:26:44,533 --> 01:26:45,533
He really grew on me.

1644
01:26:45,826 --> 01:26:47,657
You know, by the end he was awesome.

1645
01:26:47,953 --> 01:26:50,365
Bashir was arced beautifully

1646
01:26:50,664 --> 01:26:53,246
in the simple relationships
he had with the women on the station.

1647
01:26:53,542 --> 01:26:57,000
With jadzia Dax and, finally, with ezri.

1648
01:26:57,295 --> 01:26:58,660
He had matured, he'd arrived.

1649
01:27:12,894 --> 01:27:15,601
I'm prior service, and there's a lot of
prior service people here.

1650
01:27:15,897 --> 01:27:19,481
I'm a veteran of both Afghanistan
and a rotation of the Republic of Korea.

1651
01:27:19,776 --> 01:27:21,295
I was in the military for a long time.

1652
01:27:21,319 --> 01:27:23,319
- I was in the military.
- I retired from the Navy.

1653
01:27:23,363 --> 01:27:24,363
I served for 15 years.

1654
01:27:24,656 --> 01:27:27,272
I'm in the army reserves.
I'm a captain.

1655
01:27:27,576 --> 01:27:29,407
Captain Benjamin sisko, Avery Brooks.

1656
01:27:29,703 --> 01:27:32,115
He is the reason why I joined
the United States Navy.

1657
01:27:32,414 --> 01:27:34,621
Every Friday morning,
for the past three months,

1658
01:27:34,916 --> 01:27:37,828
I've posted the official list
of starfleet personnel killed,

1659
01:27:38,128 --> 01:27:40,335
wounded, or missing in the war.

1660
01:27:41,006 --> 01:27:43,588
It's become something of a grim ritual
around here.

1661
01:27:44,593 --> 01:27:48,006
Not a week goes by that someone
doesn't find the name of a loved one,

1662
01:27:48,305 --> 01:27:52,389
a friend, or an acquaintance
on that damned list.

1663
01:27:53,518 --> 01:27:55,054
I've grown to hate Fridays.

1664
01:27:56,646 --> 01:27:59,228
When I talk to people
who are ex-service people,

1665
01:27:59,524 --> 01:28:02,266
as your commanding officer,
they don't want a friend.

1666
01:28:02,569 --> 01:28:04,901
They want someone
who's gonna keep them alive,

1667
01:28:05,197 --> 01:28:08,689
and I think Avery played sisko as a man

1668
01:28:08,992 --> 01:28:12,484
who cared deeply
about keeping his people alive

1669
01:28:12,788 --> 01:28:16,121
in very, very dangerous circumstances.

1670
01:28:16,416 --> 01:28:19,658
The war, at this time, allowed,
I think, the show to deal with

1671
01:28:19,961 --> 01:28:22,794
a lot of these kinds of issues
that traditionally don't get dealt with.

1672
01:28:23,089 --> 01:28:26,331
We tend to focus on the nature
of the conflict and the exploding ships,

1673
01:28:26,635 --> 01:28:30,378
and the fighting itself,
and not what are the other costs of war.

1674
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:33,422
There's no such thing as a good war,
or a just war.

1675
01:28:33,725 --> 01:28:36,137
Everybody who gets involved in a war,

1676
01:28:36,436 --> 01:28:38,518
gets blood on their hands,
period, full-stop.

1677
01:28:38,814 --> 01:28:40,805
Kira was a freedom-fighter,

1678
01:28:41,149 --> 01:28:43,140
she had post-traumatic stress.

1679
01:28:43,527 --> 01:28:48,396
That is someone
who is on the edge of their emotions.

1680
01:28:48,698 --> 01:28:51,360
She can't just calm down, not able to.

1681
01:28:51,660 --> 01:28:56,529
I think within seven years, we showed
a progression of a freedom-fighter,

1682
01:28:56,832 --> 01:28:58,447
with post-traumatic stress,

1683
01:28:58,750 --> 01:29:02,242
who gradually recovers
by the end of the show.

1684
01:29:02,546 --> 01:29:04,036
The show really spoke

1685
01:29:04,589 --> 01:29:07,956
about nuances of war
that people don't know.

1686
01:29:08,260 --> 01:29:11,343
Deep space nine had the guts to have
an episode with nog losing his leg.

1687
01:29:23,149 --> 01:29:26,482
I can't tell you how many times
a veteran has come to me,

1688
01:29:26,778 --> 01:29:29,815
and they would say,
"that show... that show helped me.

1689
01:29:30,115 --> 01:29:31,605
It helped me when I came back.

1690
01:29:31,908 --> 01:29:37,278
It helped me get through," you know,
whatever the individual was dealing with.

1691
01:29:37,581 --> 01:29:38,787
And that's powerful.

1692
01:29:39,624 --> 01:29:43,492
If I can get shot, if I can lose my leg,

1693
01:29:44,421 --> 01:29:46,127
anything can happen to me, Vic.

1694
01:29:47,591 --> 01:29:51,960
If I stay here, at least I know
what the future is going to be like.

1695
01:29:52,262 --> 01:29:55,425
You stay here, you're gonna die.

1696
01:29:56,266 --> 01:29:59,474
Not all at once, but little by little.

1697
01:30:00,854 --> 01:30:03,140
Eventually, you'll become
as hollow as I am.

1698
01:30:05,901 --> 01:30:08,182
Science fiction allows you to do
a lot of different things

1699
01:30:08,236 --> 01:30:10,006
that you couldn't do
on regular network television.

1700
01:30:10,030 --> 01:30:12,521
It allows you to explore
all these different kinds of social,

1701
01:30:12,824 --> 01:30:14,064
political and cultural issues.

1702
01:30:14,367 --> 01:30:17,655
It allowed for exploration
of family relationships,

1703
01:30:17,954 --> 01:30:21,446
and depth of character
and even, the bajoran religion,

1704
01:30:21,750 --> 01:30:24,708
which is less exploration-oriented,

1705
01:30:25,003 --> 01:30:27,870
and more about the dynamics
and conflicts going on

1706
01:30:28,173 --> 01:30:30,459
with these characters
that we see regularly.

1707
01:30:30,759 --> 01:30:32,624
Deep space nine takes religion seriously.

1708
01:30:33,970 --> 01:30:36,586
- No no.
- The rest of trek is science or religion,

1709
01:30:36,890 --> 01:30:39,452
whereas deep space nine is like...
It's a bit more complicated than that.

1710
01:30:39,476 --> 01:30:41,137
The captain's faith is strong.

1711
01:30:41,853 --> 01:30:42,853
He will prevail.

1712
01:30:43,104 --> 01:30:44,969
It's not much to bet his life on.

1713
01:30:45,607 --> 01:30:46,642
You're wrong.

1714
01:30:47,859 --> 01:30:49,019
It's everything.

1715
01:30:49,319 --> 01:30:52,732
I like the idea
that they could have that spirituality

1716
01:30:53,031 --> 01:30:55,693
and science come together
in a show like this.

1717
01:30:55,992 --> 01:31:00,031
It makes it easier, I think,
to explore religious themes,

1718
01:31:00,330 --> 01:31:03,538
in the context of a different culture,
as opposed to ours,

1719
01:31:03,833 --> 01:31:06,324
where everyone
is applying value judgments.

1720
01:31:09,798 --> 01:31:13,461
I really respected how hard
you guys were trying

1721
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:18,003
to give the lgbt community representation.

1722
01:31:19,057 --> 01:31:24,097
At the time in the 90s, it was
a big thing to have gay relationships.

1723
01:31:24,396 --> 01:31:25,998
There were quite a few people
that were upset,

1724
01:31:26,022 --> 01:31:27,702
that had thought there
should be a warning,

1725
01:31:27,857 --> 01:31:29,939
because they were upset that they couldn't

1726
01:31:30,235 --> 01:31:32,100
have a conversation with their children

1727
01:31:32,404 --> 01:31:33,894
about what the episode was about.

1728
01:31:34,197 --> 01:31:37,189
So we did something controversial that,

1729
01:31:37,492 --> 01:31:40,450
still to this day people
come up to me and say, "thank you."

1730
01:31:40,745 --> 01:31:44,454
That was the first time I felt like I saw
two people just love each other,

1731
01:31:44,749 --> 01:31:46,956
not because of what their sex was,

1732
01:31:47,252 --> 01:31:49,709
but just because they really
just loved each other.

1733
01:31:55,010 --> 01:31:57,717
You know what? Lose the check.

1734
01:31:58,013 --> 01:31:59,594
- Really?
- Yeah, lose it.

1735
01:31:59,931 --> 01:32:02,843
We did not earn a check
for sexual identity.

1736
01:32:03,143 --> 01:32:06,226
How come? I thought rejoined
was a wonderful episode.

1737
01:32:06,521 --> 01:32:09,638
Yeah, it was great,
but one episode in seven years,

1738
01:32:09,941 --> 01:32:10,941
we could've done better.

1739
01:32:11,234 --> 01:32:12,634
Trust me, we should've done better.

1740
01:32:12,819 --> 01:32:14,229
What about profit and lace?

1741
01:32:14,529 --> 01:32:17,249
That was all about sexual identity
and it actually plays better today

1742
01:32:17,449 --> 01:32:18,649
than when it originally aired.

1743
01:32:18,742 --> 01:32:20,278
Comedy's too broad.

1744
01:32:20,577 --> 01:32:21,987
We should've played it for drama.

1745
01:32:22,287 --> 01:32:25,370
Besides, garak was clearly gay.

1746
01:32:25,665 --> 01:32:29,157
I mean, everyone knew it,
and we never played it.

1747
01:32:29,461 --> 01:32:32,624
What we should've done,
after the wire in season two,

1748
01:32:32,922 --> 01:32:35,709
the episode where bashir helps him
get over his addiction,

1749
01:32:36,134 --> 01:32:40,969
we should've had garak come out to bashir
as a gay cardassian.

1750
01:32:41,264 --> 01:32:43,704
You think that the studio
would have actually let you do that?

1751
01:32:44,392 --> 01:32:47,805
Maybe not, I don't know.
Probably not, but we never asked.

1752
01:32:48,104 --> 01:32:49,464
That's why we don't get the check.

1753
01:32:49,898 --> 01:32:52,389
Garak comes out as gay in season two,

1754
01:32:52,692 --> 01:32:56,435
we have five seasons to play
that bashir and garak relationship.

1755
01:32:56,738 --> 01:32:59,150
Where that would have gone,
who the hell knows,

1756
01:32:59,449 --> 01:33:00,905
but it could've been so cool.

1757
01:33:02,702 --> 01:33:04,909
Well, then you want me
to change that to an "x"?

1758
01:33:05,205 --> 01:33:06,786
An "x" that is harsh.

1759
01:33:07,082 --> 01:33:09,073
Let's not be so self-critical, ok?

1760
01:33:09,667 --> 01:33:11,453
Ok, well how about this?

1761
01:33:13,004 --> 01:33:14,619
Yeah, that'll do.

1762
01:33:15,298 --> 01:33:18,540
I think it's time we get back to the film.
How do we do that?

1763
01:33:18,843 --> 01:33:21,459
I think you can just press
any of those buttons there.

1764
01:33:22,222 --> 01:33:24,588
- How about the big red one?
- Try it.

1765
01:33:24,891 --> 01:33:26,677
Ok, hold on to my hat.

1766
01:33:30,063 --> 01:33:31,894
In the context of the 90s,

1767
01:33:32,190 --> 01:33:35,682
this is when homelessness
was really becoming a public issue.

1768
01:33:35,985 --> 01:33:38,601
By the early 2020s,
there was a place like this

1769
01:33:38,905 --> 01:33:41,362
in every major city in the United States.

1770
01:33:41,658 --> 01:33:44,445
Why are these people in here?
Are they criminals?

1771
01:33:44,744 --> 01:33:46,944
No, people with criminal records
weren't allowed

1772
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:48,365
in the sanctuary districts.

1773
01:33:48,665 --> 01:33:50,496
Then what did they do to deserve this?

1774
01:33:50,792 --> 01:33:52,953
Nothing, just people...

1775
01:33:53,878 --> 01:33:55,709
Without jobs or places to live.

1776
01:33:56,548 --> 01:33:59,881
Past tense, parts one and two,
that was full-on

1777
01:34:00,176 --> 01:34:02,713
social... commentary.

1778
01:34:03,012 --> 01:34:06,630
I mean, that episode... I mean,
look at today, it's kind of happening.

1779
01:34:08,726 --> 01:34:10,557
Everybody thinks it's prophetic.

1780
01:34:10,854 --> 01:34:14,187
It isn't, and we're still suffering
from the same problem.

1781
01:34:14,482 --> 01:34:16,442
It got to the point
where they didn't care

1782
01:34:16,568 --> 01:34:17,728
how many people were in here.

1783
01:34:17,986 --> 01:34:19,666
They just wanted to keep them
out of sight.

1784
01:34:20,905 --> 01:34:22,770
That only makes things worse.

1785
01:34:23,074 --> 01:34:26,658
Causing people to suffer
because you hate them is terrible.

1786
01:34:27,745 --> 01:34:31,363
But causing people to suffer
because you have forgotten how to care,

1787
01:34:33,042 --> 01:34:35,249
that's really hard to understand.

1788
01:34:42,468 --> 01:34:45,756
Documentary is a finite thing,
you only have so much time.

1789
01:34:46,055 --> 01:34:47,055
We did the writers' room,

1790
01:34:47,140 --> 01:34:49,426
we could only have
so many writers in there

1791
01:34:49,726 --> 01:34:53,218
for the one day we were doing it,
without it being too many voices.

1792
01:34:54,022 --> 01:34:57,935
So I just wanted to give a nod
to those people who were on the show.

1793
01:34:58,234 --> 01:35:01,726
Peter Allan fields who created
the character of garak.

1794
01:35:02,030 --> 01:35:05,898
Jim Crocker, who came in season two
and helped create the dominion

1795
01:35:06,201 --> 01:35:08,817
and David weddle and Bradley Thompson

1796
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:12,487
who came as freelancers in season five,

1797
01:35:12,790 --> 01:35:15,782
and were on staff
for seasons six and seven.

1798
01:35:16,085 --> 01:35:18,201
I salute all of those people.

1799
01:35:20,590 --> 01:35:23,582
I have a thought, I have a thought.

1800
01:35:23,885 --> 01:35:25,446
You don't have to raise your hand,
you're the head writer.

1801
01:35:25,470 --> 01:35:26,470
He's the boss!

1802
01:35:27,180 --> 01:35:31,640
Well, I was thinking, the one thing
that we did that I know I'm proud of,

1803
01:35:31,935 --> 01:35:35,052
and I think we're all proud of, is that
bajor never got into the federation.

1804
01:35:35,355 --> 01:35:38,142
Season one, episode one was,

1805
01:35:38,441 --> 01:35:41,729
"Ben, you're here to get bajor
into the federation."

1806
01:35:42,028 --> 01:35:45,646
And bajor said, "screw you guys.
We're taking your captain

1807
01:35:45,949 --> 01:35:47,689
and we're making him a god.”

1808
01:35:48,284 --> 01:35:51,947
I like the idea of using section 31.

1809
01:35:52,247 --> 01:35:56,365
I know they used it in a movie
but it's ours, we created it.

1810
01:35:56,668 --> 01:36:01,002
And I think it's talking about
today's political situation.

1811
01:36:01,297 --> 01:36:04,004
I think the plan of section 31,

1812
01:36:04,300 --> 01:36:06,541
is this is the example to them,

1813
01:36:06,844 --> 01:36:08,209
in their way of thinking,

1814
01:36:08,513 --> 01:36:12,131
why religion had to disappear from earth.

1815
01:36:12,433 --> 01:36:15,596
'Cause religion separates you
from other people,

1816
01:36:15,895 --> 01:36:18,978
so we have to kill the bajoran religion.

1817
01:36:19,607 --> 01:36:21,472
Section 31's plan is,

1818
01:36:21,776 --> 01:36:23,983
if you destroy the wormhole
and the prophets,

1819
01:36:24,279 --> 01:36:26,315
simultaneously shut down the gate,

1820
01:36:26,614 --> 01:36:29,026
then suddenly,
we'll be the big players in town again.

1821
01:36:29,325 --> 01:36:30,735
Without them knowing it's us.

1822
01:36:31,035 --> 01:36:32,866
That's very important!
No fingerprints!

1823
01:36:33,162 --> 01:36:34,162
Right.

1824
01:36:34,330 --> 01:36:38,198
Once that's gone,
then they will see the light,

1825
01:36:38,501 --> 01:36:40,082
according to section 31,

1826
01:36:40,378 --> 01:36:42,744
and without religion propping them up,

1827
01:36:43,047 --> 01:36:44,878
they'll come into the federation.

1828
01:36:46,009 --> 01:36:48,375
The other thing I was thinking was,
if any of our characters

1829
01:36:48,678 --> 01:36:50,589
actually did end up in section 31

1830
01:36:51,180 --> 01:36:52,580
and maybe running the goddamn thing

1831
01:36:52,765 --> 01:36:54,255
would be bashir.

1832
01:36:54,767 --> 01:36:56,303
Contemporary storytelling.

1833
01:36:56,602 --> 01:37:00,140
It's allowing some of our characters
to have really lost their way, you know?

1834
01:37:02,650 --> 01:37:04,606
So it's 5:30.

1835
01:37:04,902 --> 01:37:07,439
Do we wanna just, like,
kind of give a big shape for four

1836
01:37:07,739 --> 01:37:09,695
and a big shape for five,
and call it a day?

1837
01:37:09,991 --> 01:37:14,234
Like in the old days, in the real of it
we would all now go off and take pitches

1838
01:37:14,537 --> 01:37:16,515
and we'd come back tomorrow morning
and we'd go like,

1839
01:37:16,539 --> 01:37:18,655
- "we know we can finish this tomorrow."
- Right.

1840
01:37:18,958 --> 01:37:20,573
But, we're not coming back tomorrow.

1841
01:37:25,173 --> 01:37:27,038
Well, ok, going where we were going,

1842
01:37:27,342 --> 01:37:29,549
there's been tensions rising
between the federation

1843
01:37:29,844 --> 01:37:31,334
and the bajoran authorities...

1844
01:37:31,637 --> 01:37:33,548
Palik is specifically worried

1845
01:37:33,848 --> 01:37:35,804
that some element
of the bajoran government

1846
01:37:36,100 --> 01:37:38,307
ordered nog's death and murdered him.

1847
01:37:38,603 --> 01:37:41,720
Palik eventually is putting the pressure
on Kira to like, "hey!"

1848
01:37:42,023 --> 01:37:44,605
- "Kick the federation off the station..."
- Exactly!

1849
01:37:44,901 --> 01:37:47,893
- Kira is boxed in a bit...
- Because of the jem'hadar, right?

1850
01:37:48,196 --> 01:37:51,404
She's in on that.
That's why she's more on edge.

1851
01:37:51,699 --> 01:37:53,635
- She's not as open...
- She's not happy about it.

1852
01:37:53,659 --> 01:37:55,945
She's not happy,
but it's a secret she has to hold,

1853
01:37:56,245 --> 01:37:58,485
'cause that's her oath
and she can't tell her old friends

1854
01:37:58,664 --> 01:38:02,407
that this is what their government's
really thinking about doing.

1855
01:38:02,710 --> 01:38:05,372
I think we could do this act
in five scenes.

1856
01:38:05,671 --> 01:38:07,957
However we do it, at the end four,

1857
01:38:08,257 --> 01:38:10,839
Joseph sisko could come find Jake

1858
01:38:11,135 --> 01:38:15,344
and tell him, "I've got news for you.
Starfleet killed your buddy nog."

1859
01:38:16,307 --> 01:38:20,300
Section 31 killed nog
because nog knew something...

1860
01:38:20,603 --> 01:38:24,391
What he was really finding out was that
section 31 was gonna kill the prophets.

1861
01:38:24,690 --> 01:38:27,727
He had found that out,
he was rushing back to say, "holy shit."

1862
01:38:28,027 --> 01:38:30,018
Yeah, that's the mystery
within the mystery! Yes!

1863
01:38:30,321 --> 01:38:31,652
All right, so then act five.

1864
01:38:31,948 --> 01:38:33,654
That's when things spiral out of control.

1865
01:38:34,325 --> 01:38:36,987
Kira's kicking people off the station
and they don't wanna go,

1866
01:38:37,286 --> 01:38:40,278
and now you've got some run and jump
or some stuff,

1867
01:38:40,581 --> 01:38:42,037
and then guns are drawn.

1868
01:38:44,710 --> 01:38:47,042
Bird of prey moving.
You've got bajoran ships moving,

1869
01:38:47,338 --> 01:38:49,420
there's even a starfleet vessel coming in.

1870
01:38:49,715 --> 01:38:51,125
This is gonna explode.

1871
01:38:51,426 --> 01:38:53,987
And then Kira could show up
"what the hell are you doing?"

1872
01:38:54,011 --> 01:38:55,011
"I have my orders.

1873
01:38:55,179 --> 01:38:57,366
You can stand on my side of the barrel
or the other side.

1874
01:38:57,390 --> 01:38:58,390
It's your choice, vedek."

1875
01:38:58,558 --> 01:39:00,958
You can get that moment,
where which side will Kira stand on?

1876
01:39:01,185 --> 01:39:04,677
And she pulls out a security guard's gun
and she steps in front of her friends.

1877
01:39:04,981 --> 01:39:06,687
Guns come up.

1878
01:39:06,983 --> 01:39:09,599
They're all about to shoot
at each other, and then...

1879
01:39:10,820 --> 01:39:14,062
And a big white light,
"what's happening?"

1880
01:39:14,866 --> 01:39:16,777
And then sisko appears.

1881
01:39:20,830 --> 01:39:24,243
Sisko appears on the klingon
bridge, he appears on the bajoran bridge,

1882
01:39:24,542 --> 01:39:27,158
he appears in all these places
simultaneously,

1883
01:39:27,462 --> 01:39:30,545
and then the last place he ends up...
Is with Jake.

1884
01:39:35,678 --> 01:39:36,678
He turns...

1885
01:39:37,972 --> 01:39:38,972
“I'm sorry."

1886
01:39:47,982 --> 01:39:51,099
It's the first episode
of a long season, right?

1887
01:39:52,195 --> 01:39:54,435
A long season.
It's the first episode of a long season,

1888
01:39:54,697 --> 01:39:56,938
and you just wanna say, "holy shit!"

1889
01:39:57,241 --> 01:39:58,921
And now we can leave that as a cliffhanger

1890
01:39:59,118 --> 01:40:01,780
and we'll all walk away,
pat ourselves on the back,

1891
01:40:02,079 --> 01:40:04,912
and think our imaginary selves
will have to get together

1892
01:40:05,208 --> 01:40:07,324
to break the imaginary rest of the season,

1893
01:40:07,627 --> 01:40:10,460
which is fine, 'cause we know we would
come up with something.

1894
01:40:10,755 --> 01:40:12,416
I think if we would keep going,

1895
01:40:12,715 --> 01:40:15,252
we would keep
massaging the mythology a bit.

1896
01:40:15,551 --> 01:40:17,738
- Yeah, of course.
- But I think the general shape...

1897
01:40:17,762 --> 01:40:19,823
This is one day...
Shape of it is kind of there.

1898
01:40:19,847 --> 01:40:23,840
It took us two whole days to break
these stories back in the day, you know?

1899
01:40:24,143 --> 01:40:25,303
Sometimes three!

1900
01:40:25,603 --> 01:40:28,123
The lesson is, when you don't pay us,
we do faster, better work.

1901
01:40:32,818 --> 01:40:35,901
To the best crew
any captain ever had.

1902
01:40:36,405 --> 01:40:38,817
This may be the last time
we're all together,

1903
01:40:39,116 --> 01:40:41,107
but no matter what the future holds,

1904
01:40:41,410 --> 01:40:46,154
a part of us, will always remain here,
on deep space nine.

1905
01:40:47,041 --> 01:40:48,952
Dd

1906
01:40:50,378 --> 01:40:53,791
I started to think about the title
of this final episode,

1907
01:40:54,090 --> 01:40:56,797
which is what you leave behind,

1908
01:40:57,093 --> 01:41:00,711
and I started to think,
"what have we left behind?"

1909
01:41:01,973 --> 01:41:07,013
I think I leave behind a lot of good
memories of a lot of talented people.

1910
01:41:08,020 --> 01:41:10,386
I leave behind a Star Trek franchise

1911
01:41:10,690 --> 01:41:14,979
that will forever be different because
of what we did on deep space nine.

1912
01:41:15,278 --> 01:41:18,691
They told more intimate,
character-driven stories.

1913
01:41:18,990 --> 01:41:22,278
Star Trek, as a franchise,
has always been very progressive.

1914
01:41:22,577 --> 01:41:25,740
But I think that deep space nine
doesn't get enough credit for really being

1915
01:41:26,038 --> 01:41:27,574
probably the most progressive.

1916
01:41:27,873 --> 01:41:30,615
Of all the treks,
I think it's the one that holds up most

1917
01:41:30,918 --> 01:41:32,909
- to modern viewing, actually.
- I think so, yeah.

1918
01:41:33,212 --> 01:41:34,572
- Again, ahead of its time.
- Yeah.

1919
01:41:34,672 --> 01:41:38,335
I've noticed that there's a whole
different group of fans now,

1920
01:41:38,634 --> 01:41:42,377
because it's being shown and streamed.

1921
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:45,467
They binge-watch it,
like we're all doing now,

1922
01:41:45,766 --> 01:41:48,724
and they really get the flavor
of the whole show.

1923
01:41:49,020 --> 01:41:53,480
You can watch the whole thing in, like,
a week, if you're me, or a month...

1924
01:41:53,774 --> 01:41:55,059
It's just amazing, you know?

1925
01:41:55,359 --> 01:41:57,975
If it's your favorite show,
you can binge watch it many times.

1926
01:41:58,279 --> 01:41:59,799
I never get sick of my favorite shows.

1927
01:41:59,989 --> 01:42:01,399
That's been the key.

1928
01:42:01,699 --> 01:42:03,906
Not making people watch it
every week at 4:00 A.M.

1929
01:42:04,201 --> 01:42:07,159
The show is the same exact show,
nothing has changed.

1930
01:42:07,455 --> 01:42:10,037
What's changed is the delivery system.

1931
01:42:10,333 --> 01:42:14,542
Now it's easy to binge,
time has been good to deep space nine.

1932
01:42:14,837 --> 01:42:18,546
You've seen the original series,
you've seen next generation,

1933
01:42:19,634 --> 01:42:23,627
now watch Star Trek: The best generation,
that's how I describe deep space nine.

1934
01:42:23,929 --> 01:42:27,296
We put together a series of actors,

1935
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:29,465
and a series of characters,

1936
01:42:29,769 --> 01:42:34,980
and it leaves me with a great sense
of pride and satisfaction that it worked.

1937
01:42:35,608 --> 01:42:38,475
Being a part of television history
like that,

1938
01:42:38,778 --> 01:42:44,068
being a part of being able to communicate
with not millions of people,

1939
01:42:44,367 --> 01:42:46,904
but hundreds of millions of people
over the years,

1940
01:42:47,203 --> 01:42:50,240
and tell them stories
that maybe affected their lives,

1941
01:42:50,539 --> 01:42:52,996
is a big thing to take with you.

1942
01:42:54,752 --> 01:42:57,522
We're in viegas right now,
with a ton of people downstairs.

1943
01:42:57,546 --> 01:43:00,538
Three, four, 5,000 people,
they love the show.

1944
01:43:01,884 --> 01:43:03,624
Just took 'em 20 years to get here.

1945
01:43:05,096 --> 01:43:08,133
People, whenever they're in a series,
or a movie,

1946
01:43:08,432 --> 01:43:10,343
"oh, we're such a family,
we're such a family."

1947
01:43:10,643 --> 01:43:14,556
And that's true, it's true,
but there is a deeper,

1948
01:43:15,523 --> 01:43:17,730
a familial connection,

1949
01:43:18,025 --> 01:43:22,234
and I've been so blessed
that I've had that in my life.

1950
01:43:22,530 --> 01:43:25,488
I have this show in my life,

1951
01:43:25,783 --> 01:43:30,243
in one form or other,
just about every day.

1952
01:43:31,997 --> 01:43:35,455
And that's a gift, it's taught me so much.

1953
01:43:37,211 --> 01:43:39,953
We're really lucky
to have this experience.

1954
01:43:41,048 --> 01:43:43,255
There's not one other job I've ever done,

1955
01:43:43,551 --> 01:43:45,963
that I am this connected to the people.

1956
01:43:46,262 --> 01:43:48,844
If some being came down
and said, "ok, this is it.

1957
01:43:49,140 --> 01:43:52,928
You can't do the business anymore,”
I'd say, "fine."

1958
01:43:53,227 --> 01:43:54,717
It was a great period in my life.

1959
01:43:55,020 --> 01:43:57,511
It was a period I enjoyed immensely.

1960
01:43:57,815 --> 01:44:02,184
We left behind something that touched so
many millions of people around the world,

1961
01:44:02,486 --> 01:44:05,774
that I think it's a good shared legacy
for all of us.

1962
01:44:06,157 --> 01:44:08,899
I left behind a cast and crew

1963
01:44:09,702 --> 01:44:14,446
that probably won't be together again,
at least not in the same way.

1964
01:44:16,041 --> 01:44:17,497
That's very emotional, you know?

1965
01:44:17,835 --> 01:44:18,835
Ha!

1966
01:44:19,003 --> 01:44:21,665
What I left behind was...

1967
01:44:22,882 --> 01:44:25,999
Any... bitterness,

1968
01:44:26,302 --> 01:44:28,668
any resentment about the business.

1969
01:44:28,971 --> 01:44:32,555
So many things changed in my life
because of this,

1970
01:44:32,850 --> 01:44:34,761
because of playing garak.

1971
01:44:35,060 --> 01:44:39,144
I've gained so much more
than I ever left behind.

1972
01:44:39,440 --> 01:44:41,647
I learned to love life.

1973
01:44:42,777 --> 01:44:44,392
I don't do it as well as quark,

1974
01:44:44,695 --> 01:44:47,562
but I try to emulate what he taught me.

1975
01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:51,448
The time that we spent together
is so magical.

1976
01:44:52,703 --> 01:44:54,034
It was so much fun.

1977
01:44:54,330 --> 01:44:56,321
I had such a wonderful time.

1978
01:44:59,752 --> 01:45:02,619
That seven years changed my life.

1979
01:45:02,922 --> 01:45:05,959
I just wish there was a way
I could go back

1980
01:45:06,258 --> 01:45:08,920
and just relive that,
just one more time.

1981
01:45:09,553 --> 01:45:11,043
It would make me so happy.

1982
01:45:12,014 --> 01:45:16,348
I feel like I started this journey
on this doc for the actors.

1983
01:45:17,686 --> 01:45:20,553
And, obviously, as we started
working on this doc,

1984
01:45:20,856 --> 01:45:23,142
I started to include the writers,

1985
01:45:23,442 --> 01:45:25,307
the crew, everyone who worked on the show.

1986
01:45:25,611 --> 01:45:28,068
But originally, it was for the actors.

1987
01:45:28,364 --> 01:45:32,607
To give them validation
for the work they had done.

1988
01:45:33,494 --> 01:45:35,655
As we do the documentary,

1989
01:45:35,955 --> 01:45:39,447
I realized what a hollow pursuit that was,

1990
01:45:40,417 --> 01:45:43,250
because the validation,

1991
01:45:43,546 --> 01:45:45,546
the important validation,
has been there all along.

1992
01:45:47,883 --> 01:45:48,883
It's all of us.

1993
01:45:50,135 --> 01:45:52,296
We are the validation.

1994
01:45:54,932 --> 01:45:57,844
Family, is the validation.

1995
01:46:01,272 --> 01:46:05,481
It's not gonna say best known
as Clayton endicott lll on Benson,

1996
01:46:05,776 --> 01:46:09,109
'cause he was a wonderful, funny character
but he was a nit-wit,

1997
01:46:09,405 --> 01:46:11,396
and so now...

1998
01:46:14,201 --> 01:46:15,201
What can I say?

1999
01:46:20,624 --> 01:46:22,034
I don't know what else to say.

2000
01:46:26,380 --> 01:46:30,043
Dd

2001
01:47:24,396 --> 01:47:28,264
J j

2002
01:47:31,195 --> 01:47:32,195
Casey.

2003
01:47:33,072 --> 01:47:34,072
- Jeff.
- Gentlemen.

2004
01:47:34,239 --> 01:47:34,853
Where's Max?

2005
01:47:35,157 --> 01:47:37,239
J it's the end of the line &

2006
01:47:38,077 --> 01:47:39,658
j we've run out of time j

2007
01:47:39,954 --> 01:47:40,954
oh, yeah!

2008
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,446
J our story has gone the distance j

2009
01:47:43,749 --> 01:47:46,536
j but here's one final rhyme j

2010
01:47:46,835 --> 01:47:48,871
j a little song for the road j

2011
01:47:49,171 --> 01:47:52,004
j don't wanna say goodbye j

2012
01:47:52,299 --> 01:47:56,963
j but we've reached the end of the line j

2013
01:47:57,680 --> 01:48:00,387
j at the end of the line j

2014
01:48:00,683 --> 01:48:03,049
j like the end of ds9 j

2015
01:48:03,352 --> 01:48:08,392
j we remember what we left behind &

2016
01:48:09,358 --> 01:48:12,270
j from cardassia prime j&

2017
01:48:12,569 --> 01:48:14,901
j to that wormhole divine &

2018
01:48:15,197 --> 01:48:20,032
j we remember what we left behind &

2019
01:48:20,953 --> 01:48:23,033
- here's one for you.
- Ok. Go ahead.

2020
01:48:23,205 --> 01:48:23,819
What?

2021
01:48:24,123 --> 01:48:25,784
J we've traveled through time j

2022
01:48:26,083 --> 01:48:27,083
- we have.
- Yes.

2023
01:48:27,292 --> 01:48:29,624
J taking you all along j

2024
01:48:29,920 --> 01:48:32,457
j it's hard to express how we feel j

2025
01:48:32,756 --> 01:48:35,543
j in one simple song j

2026
01:48:37,886 --> 01:48:40,878
j if we had one more season j

2027
01:48:41,181 --> 01:48:42,717
j we'd call it "season eight" j

2028
01:48:43,017 --> 01:48:43,722
what?

2029
01:48:44,018 --> 01:48:46,304
J it could be all about section 31 j

2030
01:48:46,603 --> 01:48:49,595
j oh, wouldn't that be great j

2031
01:48:51,191 --> 01:48:52,306
j great j

2032
01:48:52,735 --> 01:48:55,397
j I gotta step aside j

2033
01:48:55,696 --> 01:48:58,062
j let my ferengi be j

2034
01:48:58,365 --> 01:49:00,947
j but if they ever bring
back quark's bar j

2035
01:49:01,243 --> 01:49:03,029
j the drinks are on me j

2036
01:49:03,328 --> 01:49:06,195
- finally...
- Oh, I love you, too!

2037
01:49:06,498 --> 01:49:09,331
J as the years roll on by j

2038
01:49:09,626 --> 01:49:12,163
j please keep this in mind j&

2039
01:49:12,463 --> 01:49:15,000
j as long as we're together j&

2040
01:49:15,299 --> 01:49:18,336
j we've left nothing behind &

2041
01:49:20,804 --> 01:49:23,466
j at the end of the line j

2042
01:49:23,766 --> 01:49:26,257
j like the end of ds9 j

2043
01:49:26,643 --> 01:49:31,558
j we remember what we left behind &

2044
01:49:32,316 --> 01:49:35,023
j from cardassia prime j&

2045
01:49:35,319 --> 01:49:38,061
& to that wormhole divine j

2046
01:49:38,363 --> 01:49:43,699
j we remember
what we left behind j

2047
01:49:43,994 --> 01:49:47,327
j we remember j

2048
01:49:47,956 --> 01:49:51,744
j what we left j

2049
01:49:53,087 --> 01:49:59,879
j behind j

2050
01:50:04,431 --> 01:50:05,431
that's a wrap!

2051
01:50:05,599 --> 01:50:06,759
That's a wrap.

2052
01:50:08,477 --> 01:50:09,592
Come on!

2053
01:50:10,312 --> 01:50:11,312
All right.

2054
01:51:33,478 --> 01:51:36,436
Ok, ok, I know
what you're all thinking.

2055
01:51:36,732 --> 01:51:39,974
A full-length documentary
about Star Trek: Deep space nine,

2056
01:51:40,277 --> 01:51:43,189
and not a single
mention of iggy pop?

2057
01:51:43,488 --> 01:51:45,319
Why am I not surprised?

2058
01:51:45,616 --> 01:51:46,776
Yeah, I get it.

2059
01:51:47,075 --> 01:51:49,532
Well, we tried,
I called his manager.

2060
01:51:49,828 --> 01:51:52,865
Iggy was overseas touring,
but I was gonna call again...

2061
01:51:53,165 --> 01:51:55,531
- Wait. Wait! No. Wait.
- And I...

2062
01:51:55,834 --> 01:51:57,119
Sorry, I'm really sorry.

2063
01:51:57,419 --> 01:51:58,875
A small confab.

2064
01:51:59,254 --> 01:52:00,494
- Iggy pop.
- Yeah.

2065
01:52:00,797 --> 01:52:02,333
Really? No, I love iggy ro

2066
01:52:02,633 --> 01:52:07,502
but out of all the things that you
left out of what we left behind,

2067
01:52:08,513 --> 01:52:10,629
iggy pop?

2068
01:52:10,933 --> 01:52:11,968
Yeah!

2069
01:52:12,267 --> 01:52:14,107
Well, no, what about
trials and tribble-ations?

2070
01:52:14,394 --> 01:52:17,636
We did a lovely piece about
trials and tribble-ations.

2071
01:52:17,940 --> 01:52:20,022
- Good...
- It was in the cut, it was out of the cut.

2072
01:52:20,317 --> 01:52:23,605
It was in, it was out.
Check the special features.

2073
01:52:23,904 --> 01:52:25,895
- I will.
- And while you're waiting for that...

2074
01:52:26,198 --> 01:52:28,610
Here's your very own tribble.

2075
01:52:28,909 --> 01:52:32,401
Thank you! No, wait, no.
This is not gonna distract me.

2076
01:52:32,704 --> 01:52:36,492
- In the pale moonlight.
- Same thing, in, out.

2077
01:52:36,792 --> 01:52:39,499
- And you can live with that?
- I can live with it.

2078
01:52:40,629 --> 01:52:43,041
I can live with it.

2079
01:52:43,340 --> 01:52:47,458
No, you cannot live
with leaving out duet.

2080
01:52:47,761 --> 01:52:51,253
Everything I did was
for the greater glory of cardassia!

2081
01:52:51,556 --> 01:52:54,548
Nana, are you really going to ask me
about every single episode?

2082
01:52:54,851 --> 01:52:56,091
No, no, not every episode,

2083
01:52:56,395 --> 01:52:58,932
just the really great ones
and the ones with great titles

2084
01:52:59,231 --> 01:53:02,098
- like the visitor.
- We'd be here all day.

2085
01:53:02,401 --> 01:53:05,768
Besides, why just
concentrate on episodes?

2086
01:53:06,071 --> 01:53:07,311
What about the time...

2087
01:53:07,614 --> 01:53:10,651
What about the time we put
Keiko o'brien's baby

2088
01:53:10,951 --> 01:53:15,991
into Kira's body just so we could justify
your real life pregnancy?

2089
01:53:16,290 --> 01:53:20,203
I'm so glad you brought that up,
because wasn't that your wife's idea?

2090
01:53:20,502 --> 01:53:22,834
Laura, no mention? Don't get it.

2091
01:53:23,130 --> 01:53:24,620
You're not gonna mention Laura?

2092
01:53:25,674 --> 01:53:29,007
You've never forgiven me,
for your mother and gul dukat.

2093
01:53:29,761 --> 01:53:30,761
Yeah, that's true.

2094
01:53:30,887 --> 01:53:33,549
Look, there's a whole bunch
of other stuff we could talk about.

2095
01:53:33,849 --> 01:53:36,511
What about the bashir and o'brien's
seven year friendship...

2096
01:53:36,810 --> 01:53:37,845
- Yes.
- What about morn?

2097
01:53:38,145 --> 01:53:39,865
- Right...
- What about the mirror universe?

2098
01:53:39,896 --> 01:53:42,137
What about ferengis as
20th century human beings?

2099
01:53:42,441 --> 01:53:45,274
- What about your marriage to sid?
- What about all those things?

2100
01:53:45,569 --> 01:53:48,902
We had to make choices,
Nana, difficult choices,

2101
01:53:49,197 --> 01:53:52,985
otherwise this film would be
eight hours long, at least.

2102
01:53:53,285 --> 01:53:54,991
He says that
like it's a bad thing.

2103
01:53:55,537 --> 01:54:01,157
You realize, Nana, that by now,
no one is paying attention to you and me?

2104
01:54:01,460 --> 01:54:06,124
All the indiegogo backers are looking
for their names on these credits.

2105
01:54:06,423 --> 01:54:09,586
- Oh, yeah. Yeah, fair enough.
- How do say that name?

2106
01:54:09,885 --> 01:54:11,685
- Ohh. That's tough.
- That's a tough one huh?

2107
01:54:11,928 --> 01:54:12,928
Yeah.

2108
01:54:18,810 --> 01:54:23,179
So I'm just... one more thing and I'm done.
One more thing.

2109
01:54:23,482 --> 01:54:25,438
How could you leave out

2110
01:54:25,734 --> 01:54:27,395
the single greatest moment

2111
01:54:27,694 --> 01:54:30,356
in our show's
seven-year history?

2112
01:54:30,655 --> 01:54:32,316
And what the hell would that be?

2113
01:54:32,616 --> 01:54:34,572
Oh, my god. Oh, my god, ira...

2114
01:54:36,119 --> 01:54:37,950
- Huh?
- Oh, wow. You know something?

2115
01:54:38,246 --> 01:54:39,907
- You have a point.
- Yep.

2116
01:54:40,207 --> 01:54:41,207
She has a point.

2117
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:46,835
Run the greatest moment,
in ds9 history.

2118
01:54:48,340 --> 01:54:50,080
J allamaraine, count to four j

2119
01:54:50,384 --> 01:54:52,249
j allamaraine, then two more j

2120
01:54:52,552 --> 01:54:54,292
j allamaraine, if you can see j

2121
01:54:54,596 --> 01:54:56,336
j allamaraine,
you can come see j

2122
01:54:56,640 --> 01:54:58,301
j allamaraine, if you can see j

2123
01:54:58,600 --> 01:55:00,090
j allamaraine,
you'll come with me j

2124
01:56:01,246 --> 01:56:03,737
What I want to know is,
out of all the stories you told me,

2125
01:56:04,040 --> 01:56:05,996
which ones were true
and which ones weren't?

2126
01:56:06,585 --> 01:56:09,918
My dear doctor, they're all true.

2127
01:56:11,256 --> 01:56:12,256
Even the lies?

2128
01:56:12,841 --> 01:56:15,298
Especially, the lies.