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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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[boings]
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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Do you have to keep tapping
like that?
You bloated sack of protoplasm!
5
00:00:15,019 --> 00:00:17,772
-[Stimpy]
I will make him happy again.
-[alarm rings]
6
00:00:17,855 --> 00:00:20,066
- [TV static noise]
- [screams]
7
00:00:20,149 --> 00:00:22,193
[Ren] You idiot!
8
00:00:22,276 --> 00:00:23,361
[TV static noise]
9
00:00:23,444 --> 00:00:26,447
[suspenseful music playing]
10
00:00:34,163 --> 00:00:37,375
[man 1] Everything in his life
is seen through the lens
of a cartoon.
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00:00:39,877 --> 00:00:45,049
That's all he lives and breathes
is his cartooning, you know,
and it's all he knows.
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00:00:47,301 --> 00:00:51,347
[man 2] John's personality
is so permeated in that project,
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00:00:51,430 --> 00:00:55,893
I can't imagine it being done
any other way than what it was.
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00:00:58,062 --> 00:01:01,941
[woman 1] He was very driven,
very ambitious.
15
00:01:02,024 --> 00:01:05,319
[Robyn] He had this sort of
Rockstar status.
16
00:01:05,403 --> 00:01:08,030
[man 3] He's the best
drill sergeant you'll ever meet.
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00:01:08,114 --> 00:01:10,533
And drill sergeants do need
to be cruel.
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00:01:12,034 --> 00:01:16,831
[man 4] But underneath it all
was just this very ugly
undercurrent.
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00:01:16,914 --> 00:01:19,375
[man 5] You know,
the whole thing is tragic.
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00:01:19,458 --> 00:01:21,335
It is like a Shakespearean play.
21
00:01:21,419 --> 00:01:23,337
[jarring indication]
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00:01:23,421 --> 00:01:24,630
[grunting]
23
00:01:24,714 --> 00:01:25,840
[screams]
24
00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:29,468
Ren & Stimpy was innovative
on every level.
25
00:01:29,552 --> 00:01:31,554
[man 6]
It was an artist-driven show.
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00:01:32,513 --> 00:01:35,850
The drawings, the paintings,
the characters, the voices.
27
00:01:35,933 --> 00:01:38,394
Why won't they leave me alone?
28
00:01:39,353 --> 00:01:44,358
Ren & Stimpy was gorgeous,
was hand painted cells,
hand inked. This was not done.
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00:01:44,442 --> 00:01:46,360
[screams]
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00:01:46,444 --> 00:01:49,822
[man 7]
The influence of classic
animation was extraordinary
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00:01:49,905 --> 00:01:55,077
and it was being digested
and spit out in a way that none
of us had ever seen before.
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00:01:55,161 --> 00:01:57,622
[screams]
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00:01:57,705 --> 00:01:59,081
[thuds]
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00:01:59,206 --> 00:02:00,958
[Bobby] I thought it was like
Tom and Jerry.
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00:02:01,042 --> 00:02:04,295
If Tom and Jerry opened up
a portal to, you know, hell.
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00:02:04,378 --> 00:02:07,048
[screams]
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00:02:07,131 --> 00:02:09,425
It was unapologetic
and disgusting
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00:02:09,508 --> 00:02:12,470
and you never got to see
that stuff on other cartoons.
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00:02:15,222 --> 00:02:20,728
It's not just [inaudible], it's
also like getting deep into the
experience of the characters.
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00:02:20,811 --> 00:02:23,814
Ren & Stimpy kind of opened
the doors saying to everyone
out there,
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00:02:24,732 --> 00:02:25,900
yeah, no more rules.
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00:02:27,652 --> 00:02:31,447
This show built up a cult
following amongst both adults
and children
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00:02:31,530 --> 00:02:36,285
and became America's most
popular made-for-cable series
in television history.
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00:02:38,496 --> 00:02:41,082
We were the kings, we were
the bad boys of animation.
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00:02:41,165 --> 00:02:44,251
We were making the funniest
cartoon than anybody ever made.
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00:02:44,335 --> 00:02:51,133
In order to do what we did,
it took intense pressure
and it all emanated from John.
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00:02:51,258 --> 00:02:56,263
But behind the scenes
there were a lot of things going
on that were really damaging.
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00:02:56,347 --> 00:02:59,600
[man 8] He called them beatings.
Some of it was torture,
I tell you.
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00:02:59,684 --> 00:03:03,062
He said that I could
go fuck myself.
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00:03:03,938 --> 00:03:06,482
[Robyn] You know, I still have
nightmares about him.
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00:03:07,650 --> 00:03:09,527
[Chris Reccardi] Despite what he
says, you know,
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00:03:09,610 --> 00:03:12,988
nobody else worked harder
to fuck it up than this guy.
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00:03:15,991 --> 00:03:19,829
It makes me sad because we were
changing animation forever
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00:03:19,912 --> 00:03:22,164
and it all fell apart
before it really got going.
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00:03:22,289 --> 00:03:23,708
[screams]
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00:03:24,625 --> 00:03:27,002
[body thuds]
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00:03:27,086 --> 00:03:30,131
[screaming]
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00:03:30,214 --> 00:03:33,676
Every single Ren & Stimpy
cartoon that was made
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00:03:33,759 --> 00:03:37,221
was made with a certain amount
of pain involved,
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00:03:38,222 --> 00:03:43,894
but that pain ended up
in this creative result
that is the work of art.
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00:03:43,978 --> 00:03:46,981
[TV static noise]
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00:03:47,064 --> 00:03:50,818
[scraping]
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00:03:53,446 --> 00:03:55,656
[classical music playing]
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00:03:55,740 --> 00:03:59,118
[Matt]
A single sentence explanation
of Ren & Stimpy,
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00:03:59,201 --> 00:04:02,246
whoo, let's see,
where do you start?
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00:04:03,372 --> 00:04:04,415
Um...
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00:04:05,374 --> 00:04:06,667
Uh...
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00:04:11,922 --> 00:04:15,092
That's a really hard one.
How would you describe it?
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00:04:15,176 --> 00:04:18,053
I don't know.
Nothing else like it.
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00:04:18,137 --> 00:04:22,057
It seems to be about a dog
in a cap,
but it's a lot more than that.
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00:04:22,141 --> 00:04:27,521
It's an animated show
about two friends who happened
to be a dog and a cat,
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00:04:27,605 --> 00:04:33,360
but they live on the precipice
of insanity and...
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And death.
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He's dead!
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Dead, you idiot!
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00:04:38,115 --> 00:04:39,408
You know what dead is?
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Just like we'll be
if we don't get out of here!
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00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,456
[classical music playing]
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00:04:45,539 --> 00:04:48,667
[Iliza] Even though now
looking back, of course, there
was stuff that adults would get,
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00:04:48,751 --> 00:04:52,838
it felt like something that was
just ours and it was weird
but like you were part of it,
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00:04:52,922 --> 00:04:53,798
like you just got it.
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00:04:54,965 --> 00:04:57,259
[Matt] It was ostensibly
a children's show.
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00:04:57,343 --> 00:05:01,388
You know, it wasn't a prime-time
television series,
it was a children's cartoon.
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00:05:01,472 --> 00:05:03,933
What a good boy!
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00:05:05,684 --> 00:05:08,229
[Chris Gore] Who pees
in a children's cartoon?
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00:05:08,312 --> 00:05:12,233
I mean, like a children's
cartoon where you have a
character named George Licker,
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00:05:12,316 --> 00:05:16,862
a children's cartoon
where you have a ghost
that comes back alive
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00:05:16,946 --> 00:05:19,365
as a fully naked black man.
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00:05:19,448 --> 00:05:21,784
Man, what a blast!
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00:05:21,867 --> 00:05:24,203
What... What?
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00:05:24,286 --> 00:05:28,249
♪ Masked crusaders
Working overtime ♪
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00:05:28,332 --> 00:05:30,501
♪ Look around... ♪
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00:05:30,584 --> 00:05:33,128
My' I've got to pack.
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00:05:33,212 --> 00:05:38,634
You don't realize what the state
of the world of animation was
in the '80s and early '90s.
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00:05:38,717 --> 00:05:41,136
It was a travesty.
It was an embarrassment.
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00:05:42,179 --> 00:05:47,852
Poorly animated shows
mainly created with the
intention to sell a toy line,
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00:05:47,935 --> 00:05:51,730
but not with the intention
to actually entertain
either the kids
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00:05:51,814 --> 00:05:55,442
or the adults who had to suffer
through watching their kids
watch those shows.
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00:05:57,236 --> 00:06:01,031
The culture
was so conservative then.
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00:06:01,115 --> 00:06:03,909
One of our most important
freedoms' the freedom of speech'
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00:06:03,993 --> 00:06:06,954
was under attack by both
conservatives and liberals.
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00:06:07,037 --> 00:06:09,915
Demons and Wizards,
we will be burning that tonight.
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00:06:09,999 --> 00:06:14,962
We are going to keep on trying
to strengthen
the American family
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00:06:15,045 --> 00:06:18,299
to make American families
a lot more like The Waltons
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00:06:18,382 --> 00:06:20,092
and a lot less
like The Simpsons.
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00:06:20,175 --> 00:06:21,886
[applause]
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00:06:21,969 --> 00:06:24,346
[man 9] All the censorship
that was going on in the world,
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I think that is what John
was pushing against.
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[light music playing]
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00:06:35,024 --> 00:06:38,611
[Bob Camp] John's a great
designer and he designed
a lot of the characters.
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00:06:38,694 --> 00:06:41,822
He was doing the stuff we'd all
have thought about doing
but nobody had the nerves to do.
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00:06:42,781 --> 00:06:45,826
You know,
he was sort of the Andy Warhol
of animation back then.
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00:06:45,910 --> 00:06:48,704
The guy that people were getting
around and people were thinking,
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00:06:48,787 --> 00:06:50,748
"Wow, this guy
is the new talent in town."
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00:06:56,003 --> 00:06:59,548
[Chris Reccardi] John's just
obsessed with cartoons.
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00:07:01,592 --> 00:07:03,719
I mean, the guy really
couldn't do anything else.
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00:07:03,802 --> 00:07:08,307
I knew him personally
and socially,
aside from working under him.
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00:07:08,390 --> 00:07:13,228
He, he couldn't, you know,
fix a flat, he couldn't drive.
He didn't do anything else.
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00:07:13,312 --> 00:07:16,690
It was like this thing, this
thing, and it showed, of course.
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00:07:20,986 --> 00:07:27,076
He's drawing all the time
in his brains, it's like he's
got a pencil on his brain.
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00:07:27,159 --> 00:07:32,373
So, he meets you,
he seems very intensive,
he's drawing you.
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00:07:33,791 --> 00:07:35,834
[overlapping chatter]
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00:07:35,918 --> 00:07:38,420
[Bob Camp] John K was really
talented and really funny
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00:07:38,504 --> 00:07:40,965
and drew funnier
than anybody around
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00:07:41,048 --> 00:07:46,345
and, uh, you know, to him,
the funniest thing in the world
was Fred and Barney having sex.
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00:07:46,428 --> 00:07:49,848
[quirky music playing]
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00:07:49,932 --> 00:07:52,810
[Richard] Bob said, you know,
he's the next Disney.
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00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,857
We all kind of thought that...
That John was gonna be the next
Walt Disney.
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00:08:07,282 --> 00:08:09,284
[thuds]
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00:08:09,368 --> 00:08:10,953
I gotta move this thing out.
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00:08:11,036 --> 00:08:13,747
I'll just try
to sit up straight.
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00:08:13,831 --> 00:08:15,916
[clears throat]
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00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,586
So, remind me
if I start slouching,
which is my normal position.
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00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:21,046
[interviewer] Sure, sure.
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00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:30,889
Did all the other, uh,
interviewees get to make up too?
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00:08:30,973 --> 00:08:32,599
This lighting
looks awful bright.
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00:08:32,683 --> 00:08:33,475
[interviewer] It... it won't be.
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00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:34,977
I look like a ghost.
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00:08:39,356 --> 00:08:44,486
First time I ever saw an
animated cartoon, I was floored.
I just... I couldn't believe.
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00:08:44,611 --> 00:08:46,613
I was looking it because it was
drawings that moved.
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00:08:46,697 --> 00:08:51,493
And I was just shocked, like,
"How is this possible?
This is magic!"
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00:08:51,577 --> 00:08:53,120
And that's when I was hooked.
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00:08:53,203 --> 00:08:55,873
And I think I was probably
about four or five.
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00:08:57,041 --> 00:08:59,626
I've had theories
ever since I was a little kid,
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00:08:59,710 --> 00:09:04,214
I'm always trying to analyze
and figure out how things work
and why they do this or that.
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00:09:04,298 --> 00:09:07,718
So, when I saw the cartoon,
I was convinced that magic
was possible.
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00:09:09,011 --> 00:09:12,056
I had friends
that I would give my theories to
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00:09:12,139 --> 00:09:16,185
and I told them the theory about
cartoons must be proof of magic.
149
00:09:17,978 --> 00:09:22,149
One day I was out with my dad
and he stopped
in a corner store somewhere
150
00:09:22,232 --> 00:09:24,985
and I went straight
to the, uh, toy rack.
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00:09:25,069 --> 00:09:30,074
This long package
with Huckleberry Hound on it
and I loved Huckleberry Hound,
152
00:09:30,157 --> 00:09:33,535
I tug at my dad's jacket,
"Dad, you gotta buy me
Huckleberry Hound.
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00:09:33,619 --> 00:09:35,162
Buy me Huckleberry Hound!"
154
00:09:35,245 --> 00:09:38,540
He's like, "All right,
here is your goddamn 15 cents."
155
00:09:38,624 --> 00:09:40,751
So, bought it and I took it home
and I opened it up
156
00:09:40,834 --> 00:09:43,295
and there were these
long strips,
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00:09:43,378 --> 00:09:48,342
like film strips, of different
scenes with Huckleberry Hound.
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00:09:48,425 --> 00:09:52,346
So, I read the instructions
and it said "Cut these
individual images out,
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00:09:52,429 --> 00:09:56,183
pile them on top of each other,
flip through them."
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00:09:56,266 --> 00:09:58,811
You know, this just seems crazy,
all right.
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00:09:58,894 --> 00:10:01,897
So, I'm flipping through it
and I see the animation.
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00:10:01,980 --> 00:10:05,776
I was like, "Whoa!"
They all went flying.
I was like, "Eureka!
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00:10:07,611 --> 00:10:09,780
It isn't magic, it's science!"
164
00:10:11,990 --> 00:10:14,743
So, then I had to call my...
All my friends over to show them
the flip book, right.
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00:10:14,827 --> 00:10:19,456
Hey, I was wrong, this is
actually physically possible.
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00:10:20,833 --> 00:10:22,126
Oh, they all thought
it was crazy.
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00:10:22,209 --> 00:10:23,585
They just like
the funny drawings.
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00:10:23,710 --> 00:10:26,046
If I did a funny drawing,
they'd laugh.
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00:10:26,130 --> 00:10:28,674
So, then I thought,
"Well, make it even funnier."
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00:10:28,757 --> 00:10:31,176
So, I would exaggerate it more
and do crazier stuff with it
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00:10:31,260 --> 00:10:36,849
and I realized that's really
the key to cartoons is to make
things so exaggerated,
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00:10:36,932 --> 00:10:39,601
so caricatured
that people laugh.
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00:10:39,685 --> 00:10:44,481
If you can make it funny, you
win, you get... You're popular.
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00:10:44,565 --> 00:10:47,609
[suspenseful music playing]
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00:10:49,486 --> 00:10:53,407
I saw a postcard with a picture
of a Chihuahua in a sweater
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00:10:53,490 --> 00:10:56,285
standing next to, uh,
this woman's leg.
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00:10:56,368 --> 00:10:58,495
You could tell that the dog
hated the sweater.
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00:10:58,579 --> 00:11:00,497
It was humiliating to have
to wear this sweater.
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00:11:01,498 --> 00:11:05,002
So, instantly,
Ren Höek came to life.
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00:11:05,085 --> 00:11:07,713
From this, I kept drawing him
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00:11:07,796 --> 00:11:11,508
and he, eventually, morphed
into something like this.
182
00:11:11,592 --> 00:11:15,220
It was kind of egg-shaped,
long ears.
183
00:11:17,764 --> 00:11:22,769
Stimpy, I started drawing him
and it didn't really look at all
like Stimpy.
184
00:11:22,853 --> 00:11:26,064
Originally, it was just me
doodling from memory,
185
00:11:26,148 --> 00:11:29,193
the cats from the Clampett
cartoon called Gruesome Twosome,
186
00:11:30,277 --> 00:11:33,488
that had these cats in it
that had big bulbous noses.
187
00:11:34,823 --> 00:11:37,743
I didn't really discover
Bob Clampett fully
till I was an adult.
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00:11:38,619 --> 00:11:43,749
When I saw his cartoons,
I was just floored because they
pulled you into them.
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00:11:43,832 --> 00:11:44,666
Come out!
190
00:11:44,750 --> 00:11:47,211
[shouts]
191
00:11:47,294 --> 00:11:52,382
[John] The early cartoons were
animated, drawn, designed,
painted by professionals,
192
00:11:52,466 --> 00:11:56,094
people who had learned step
by step through the 30s and 40s.
193
00:11:56,178 --> 00:11:59,264
[lively music playing]
194
00:11:59,348 --> 00:12:02,768
I watched the decay of animation
which shocked me
195
00:12:02,851 --> 00:12:05,062
because I didn't think anything
can make cartoons bad.
196
00:12:09,149 --> 00:12:11,193
I was an idiot. I was naive.
197
00:12:11,276 --> 00:12:14,780
I thought,
"Ah, we'll change it."
198
00:12:14,863 --> 00:12:17,783
And somehow,
I convinced a handful of
my friends that it might happen.
199
00:12:17,866 --> 00:12:19,910
But I don't think they ever
really totally believed it.
200
00:12:19,993 --> 00:12:22,162
I think Lynne did
because she had a lot of faith.
201
00:12:24,539 --> 00:12:26,416
[Lynne] I was a huge fan
of his drawings.
202
00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:29,253
He'd sit down and do these
incredible drawings
203
00:12:29,336 --> 00:12:32,839
and, uh, they'd just sort
of toss them aside
204
00:12:32,923 --> 00:12:35,342
and I used to just
[inaudible] them,
205
00:12:35,425 --> 00:12:38,845
like I used to steal them
and put them in files at one
point, it was ridiculous.
206
00:12:38,929 --> 00:12:42,099
And so, I geek out
over his creativity
207
00:12:42,182 --> 00:12:47,688
and his ability to just
get something down right away
like immediate...
208
00:12:47,771 --> 00:12:48,981
Immediate results.
209
00:12:50,274 --> 00:12:54,861
[John] At some point, Lynne
and I made these presentation
art and story Bibles.
210
00:12:54,945 --> 00:12:57,030
Somehow,
I don't even know how I did it,
211
00:12:57,114 --> 00:13:00,450
I got meetings at each of the
Saturday morning
cartoon networks,
212
00:13:00,534 --> 00:13:06,290
which were NBC, CBS, ABC,
and Fox was still fairly new,
213
00:13:06,373 --> 00:13:08,166
but they all had Saturday
morning cartoons.
214
00:13:09,543 --> 00:13:12,045
So, I went in there
and pitched the cartoons.
215
00:13:14,798 --> 00:13:20,095
I had never seen anyone take me
through a storyboard
like John did.
216
00:13:20,178 --> 00:13:22,180
This... He was possessed.
217
00:13:22,264 --> 00:13:25,267
[Chris Gore]
He performed every part.
He did every voice.
218
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:27,394
He would show you the board
but you didn't need it.
219
00:13:27,477 --> 00:13:31,440
No one had cared for so long
about cartoons
that he was saying,
220
00:13:31,523 --> 00:13:37,362
"Wake up, I'm telling you
a story that isn't like that
other crap that you're seeing.
221
00:13:37,446 --> 00:13:41,366
Here's this new thing.
So, wake up."
222
00:13:41,450 --> 00:13:44,202
Nobody pitched like that.
It was explosive.
223
00:13:44,286 --> 00:13:47,080
Screaming and like acting out
all the lines.
224
00:13:47,164 --> 00:13:50,751
He would roll around
on the floor, he would get up,
he would smash things.
225
00:13:50,834 --> 00:13:54,004
I always like horrified,
I have never seen
anything like it ever.
226
00:13:54,087 --> 00:13:56,256
His glasses hit somebody
in the head once.
227
00:13:56,340 --> 00:13:58,800
Okay, beep, watch out,
the glasses are coming.
228
00:14:02,429 --> 00:14:05,724
That was John, and you walk
out of there like wow.
229
00:14:05,807 --> 00:14:07,809
Like if I was an executive,
how could you not?
230
00:14:07,934 --> 00:14:09,186
You'd have to... You'd have to.
231
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:10,729
How do you not hire that guy
to do that?
232
00:14:10,812 --> 00:14:13,357
You lousy [inaudible].
233
00:14:15,275 --> 00:14:16,109
[thuds]
234
00:14:16,193 --> 00:14:17,986
Shut up!
235
00:14:18,070 --> 00:14:20,530
[John] The executives in those
days were mostly like moms.
236
00:14:20,614 --> 00:14:25,952
The... the cartoons were full
of morals and dumb stuff
and they were completely bland.
237
00:14:26,036 --> 00:14:29,289
So, all of a sudden, I come in
with all these specific ideas
238
00:14:29,373 --> 00:14:32,834
and making fun
of morals and things.
239
00:14:32,959 --> 00:14:35,295
Well, that didn't go over well.
240
00:14:35,379 --> 00:14:39,174
In fact, one of the networks
had a security guard come
and escort me outside.
241
00:14:40,175 --> 00:14:45,097
We read the Nickelodeon
was looking for new Saturday
morning cartoon ideas
242
00:14:45,180 --> 00:14:47,224
but they didn't want to go
to the big studios.
243
00:14:47,307 --> 00:14:50,102
Didn't want to go
to Hanna-Barbera, Disney,
or Warner Brothers
244
00:14:50,185 --> 00:14:52,062
because they thought they would
just get the same stuff
245
00:14:52,145 --> 00:14:53,605
that you see on Saturday
morning cartoons
246
00:14:53,688 --> 00:14:55,023
and they wanted
something original and fresh.
247
00:14:55,107 --> 00:14:58,151
[light music playing]
248
00:14:59,569 --> 00:15:02,280
The first initial pitch with
Vanessa went very differently
249
00:15:02,364 --> 00:15:07,285
than the same pitches I gave
to all these Saturday morning
cartoon networks.
250
00:15:07,369 --> 00:15:08,870
They... She didn't throw me out.
251
00:15:10,247 --> 00:15:12,582
[Vanessa] He pitched me
a project called Your Gang.
252
00:15:12,666 --> 00:15:16,878
One of the kids in the project
had a dog and a cat
called Ren & Stimpy.
253
00:15:19,423 --> 00:15:24,219
I didn't like any of the
projects he pitched me
but I did like those characters.
254
00:15:24,302 --> 00:15:28,181
She just focused in on who are
these two characters here,
these Ren & Stimpy.
255
00:15:28,265 --> 00:15:33,979
[Vanessa] There was an emotional
element to Ren & Stimpy that
was unlike any other, not...
256
00:15:34,062 --> 00:15:35,689
I'd never seen anything like it.
257
00:15:35,772 --> 00:15:38,775
[somber music playing]
258
00:15:38,859 --> 00:15:42,362
[lively music playing]
259
00:15:42,446 --> 00:15:44,030
It was edgy.
260
00:15:44,114 --> 00:15:48,910
It was probably a little bit
above our demographics.
261
00:15:48,994 --> 00:15:51,872
And Nickelodeon
was afraid of it.
262
00:15:51,955 --> 00:15:53,457
[screams]
263
00:15:53,540 --> 00:15:55,083
They weren't gonna do it.
264
00:15:55,167 --> 00:15:59,254
So, I called Gerry Laybourne
and I begged her.
265
00:15:59,337 --> 00:16:00,922
I begged.
266
00:16:01,047 --> 00:16:07,679
She was hesitant
but I talked her
into six episodes.
267
00:16:07,762 --> 00:16:12,684
My relationship with Vanessa
right from the beginning
was like this,
268
00:16:12,767 --> 00:16:14,519
we were two peas in a pod.
269
00:16:14,603 --> 00:16:18,440
[Vanessa] I was attracted
to that passion and craziness
270
00:16:18,523 --> 00:16:23,069
because I have a lot of passion
and I am probably crazy, too.
271
00:16:23,153 --> 00:16:25,447
[John]
If Vanessa wasn't in charge
of the new animation unit,
272
00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:27,657
it never would have happened.
273
00:16:27,741 --> 00:16:30,327
I don't think she analyzed
anything,
she just knew what she liked,
274
00:16:30,410 --> 00:16:32,245
which is extremely rare.
275
00:16:32,329 --> 00:16:35,874
It was just natural for her
to do what she felt was right.
276
00:16:35,957 --> 00:16:37,918
But, you know, which made her
a perfect executive.
277
00:16:38,001 --> 00:16:39,878
[jarring indication]
278
00:16:39,961 --> 00:16:41,213
[TV static noise]
279
00:16:41,296 --> 00:16:44,716
[groovy music playing]
280
00:16:57,103 --> 00:16:58,146
[TV static noise]
281
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:59,856
[glass shatters]
282
00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:02,275
Ren' you... You're angry?
283
00:17:02,359 --> 00:17:04,236
[teeth chattering]
284
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,738
You're darn-tootin' I'm angry!
285
00:17:06,821 --> 00:17:10,700
I have never been this angry
in my entire life!
286
00:17:10,784 --> 00:17:12,869
[squelching]
287
00:17:12,953 --> 00:17:14,162
Hey!
288
00:17:14,246 --> 00:17:15,914
I feel great.
289
00:17:15,997 --> 00:17:17,999
I love being angry.
290
00:17:19,042 --> 00:17:20,210
Thank you' Stimpy.
291
00:17:21,670 --> 00:17:24,089
Happy to be of service.
292
00:17:24,172 --> 00:17:28,176
[cackles]
293
00:17:28,260 --> 00:17:30,971
[Carey] Ren is as dysfunctional
a character as you can get.
294
00:17:31,054 --> 00:17:35,475
I'll challenge you to identify
with this character
because he's a complete ass.
295
00:17:36,893 --> 00:17:39,563
What do you mean
you don't agree with me?
296
00:17:39,646 --> 00:17:41,565
Do you know
who you're dealing with?
297
00:17:43,525 --> 00:17:45,318
[alarm rings]
298
00:17:45,402 --> 00:17:46,903
[explodes]
299
00:17:46,987 --> 00:17:49,823
But somehow, you're...
you love him.
300
00:17:49,906 --> 00:17:52,742
And if you get that out
like from the very beginning,
301
00:17:52,826 --> 00:17:55,954
you just set the tone,
this is who this guy is,
he's a piece of shit.
302
00:17:56,037 --> 00:17:58,623
And I kind of want him to win,
too.
303
00:17:58,707 --> 00:18:00,292
Oh, yeah' it's great.
304
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,128
Great for you.
305
00:18:03,211 --> 00:18:05,213
[teeth chattering]
306
00:18:05,297 --> 00:18:07,757
People always love
the stupid one.
307
00:18:07,841 --> 00:18:10,427
[whimpers]
308
00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:13,471
But nobody ever loves the jerk.
309
00:18:13,555 --> 00:18:15,932
Everybody hates me.
310
00:18:16,016 --> 00:18:20,061
Casting for Ren,
I tried all kinds of actors and
I had all these people come in,
311
00:18:20,145 --> 00:18:22,647
some really good actors
and stuff
312
00:18:22,731 --> 00:18:26,401
and, uh, nobody quite could get
the intensity of the insanity
that I wanted to get into Ren.
313
00:18:26,484 --> 00:18:28,236
I tried everyone.
314
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,031
So, I finally just went in
and I recorded it myself
315
00:18:31,114 --> 00:18:33,366
and said I wanted
to be like this
and I acted it out and stuff.
316
00:18:33,450 --> 00:18:34,868
Then I listened to it
and I hated it.
317
00:18:35,535 --> 00:18:38,496
But Nickelodeon said,
"Well, you should just do it."
318
00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:40,081
[thumps]
319
00:18:40,206 --> 00:18:41,958
Do you have to keep tapping
like that?
320
00:18:42,042 --> 00:18:44,669
You bloated sack of protoplasm!
321
00:18:44,753 --> 00:18:49,382
John's voicing on Ren
is to me, astounding.
322
00:18:50,258 --> 00:18:52,052
Wax paper.
323
00:18:52,135 --> 00:18:55,555
There's episodes
I can't believe how good
and how emotional
324
00:18:55,639 --> 00:18:58,099
and, he... he's just, you know,
325
00:18:58,224 --> 00:19:01,436
he wouldn't... Why... Why...
Why should he be good at voice
acting, he's a cartoonist?
326
00:19:02,854 --> 00:19:07,192
I have had this ice-cream bar
since I was a child!
327
00:19:08,109 --> 00:19:11,529
People always trying
to take it from me!
328
00:19:11,613 --> 00:19:14,199
Why won't they leave me alone?
329
00:19:14,282 --> 00:19:16,326
[water splashes]
330
00:19:16,409 --> 00:19:19,120
In the beginning,
Ren was basically just...
331
00:19:19,245 --> 00:19:20,789
He was Peter Lorre,
he's a psychotic.
332
00:19:20,872 --> 00:19:24,334
You... you imbecile,
you bloated idiot!
333
00:19:24,417 --> 00:19:25,293
[thuds]
334
00:19:25,377 --> 00:19:27,921
You fat bloated idiot!
335
00:19:28,004 --> 00:19:28,838
[thuds]
336
00:19:28,922 --> 00:19:30,924
You worm!
337
00:19:31,007 --> 00:19:35,303
[John] He... he was frail
and tiny
but couldn't control his rage.
338
00:19:35,387 --> 00:19:36,721
[thuds]
339
00:19:38,181 --> 00:19:40,225
You broke it. You broke it.
340
00:19:40,308 --> 00:19:41,976
[sniffles]
341
00:19:42,060 --> 00:19:44,479
My voice material possession.
342
00:19:44,562 --> 00:19:47,649
Stimpy was an abject retard
but with a good heart.
343
00:19:48,858 --> 00:19:51,986
Happy, happy' happy,
joy' joy, joy.
344
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:55,657
[lively music playing]
345
00:19:55,740 --> 00:20:00,578
I did Stimpy, which was based
on Larry Fine
from the Three Stooges.
346
00:20:00,662 --> 00:20:02,288
What's the matter with him?
I'm still in one piece.
347
00:20:03,164 --> 00:20:05,500
[Billy]
His voice was so sublime.
348
00:20:05,583 --> 00:20:08,336
Everybody could do Moe
and everybody could do Curly
but nobody could do Larry.
349
00:20:08,420 --> 00:20:09,921
No one even cared about him.
350
00:20:10,004 --> 00:20:12,173
But I went nuts
the little that he said.
351
00:20:12,298 --> 00:20:13,133
We gotta help him.
352
00:20:13,216 --> 00:20:16,136
[Billy] He'd say like, you know,
"Hey Mo, you put too much tinsel
on the tree."
353
00:20:16,219 --> 00:20:17,971
And... and John said to me,
354
00:20:18,054 --> 00:20:20,807
"I don't want him to sound like
a depressed old Jewish guy."
355
00:20:20,890 --> 00:20:24,894
So, we pitched him up
and he became very high-pitched
and he...
356
00:20:24,978 --> 00:20:29,023
And he could hear better
to the parameters of a cartoon
universe, you know,
357
00:20:29,107 --> 00:20:32,068
where he'd be like, you know,
"Will you button me, Ren?"
358
00:20:32,152 --> 00:20:34,195
Will you button me, Ren?
359
00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:36,781
Sure thing' pal.
360
00:20:36,865 --> 00:20:37,991
[squelches]
361
00:20:38,074 --> 00:20:40,618
- [Ren] Good night Stimpy.
- [Stimpy] Good night, Ren.
362
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:45,874
You know, Stimpy was like
really innocent and pure,
363
00:20:45,957 --> 00:20:49,461
totally naive and he seemed
to believe in everything.
364
00:20:49,544 --> 00:20:54,007
Well, guess what the mailman
brought you today...
365
00:20:54,090 --> 00:20:55,341
Nothing!
366
00:20:55,425 --> 00:20:57,135
This letter is for me!
367
00:20:57,218 --> 00:21:00,180
[John] Vanessa never liked Ren.
Ren was abusive to Stimpy.
368
00:21:00,263 --> 00:21:01,890
Stop hitting Stimpy.
369
00:21:01,973 --> 00:21:05,393
You know, I called John,
"Stop hitting Stimpy."
370
00:21:05,477 --> 00:21:06,978
How about that?
371
00:21:07,061 --> 00:21:09,022
To me, that was integral.
372
00:21:09,105 --> 00:21:13,359
That was the core of the show
is that Ren slapped him around.
373
00:21:13,443 --> 00:21:14,778
Love.
374
00:21:14,861 --> 00:21:16,696
It says love.
375
00:21:16,780 --> 00:21:19,616
[jarring indication]
376
00:21:19,699 --> 00:21:20,575
Stimpy.
377
00:21:20,658 --> 00:21:24,078
[somber music playing]
378
00:21:26,498 --> 00:21:31,252
I would always have scenes
where you'd feel sorry for Ren,
even though, he's the asshole.
379
00:21:31,336 --> 00:21:32,754
There's no... You shouldn't feel
sorry for him.
380
00:21:35,882 --> 00:21:38,134
Oh, Stimpy.
381
00:21:39,135 --> 00:21:42,263
I'm so ashamed.
382
00:21:42,388 --> 00:21:44,349
I didn't know that that would
translate into heart.
383
00:21:44,432 --> 00:21:48,019
I didn't set out to do "heart",
in fact I was...
384
00:21:48,102 --> 00:21:50,438
I was physiologically opposed
to it.
385
00:21:51,523 --> 00:21:53,066
And Vanessa loved that part.
386
00:21:53,149 --> 00:21:56,444
[bawling]
387
00:21:56,528 --> 00:22:00,949
[Vanessa] I think
any great story brings out
some emotional component.
388
00:22:01,032 --> 00:22:07,121
Ren & Stimpy's particularly,
was funny and emotional.
389
00:22:07,205 --> 00:22:10,500
It was emotionally compelling
usually because of Stimpy.
390
00:22:10,583 --> 00:22:12,961
There, there Ren.
391
00:22:13,044 --> 00:22:13,920
[sniffles]
392
00:22:14,003 --> 00:22:16,297
There, there.
393
00:22:17,257 --> 00:22:19,300
[Chris Gore] Stimpy loved Ren.
394
00:22:19,425 --> 00:22:25,932
No matter how much he was abused
or treated badly,
Stimpy loved Ren.
395
00:22:27,016 --> 00:22:30,937
[Bob Camp] They're just as real
and... and as fucked up and
as messed up as normal people
396
00:22:31,020 --> 00:22:33,898
and they have real problems
and insecurities
397
00:22:33,982 --> 00:22:36,651
and... and they drive each other
crazy all the time
398
00:22:36,734 --> 00:22:40,071
but they're absolutely
inseparable
because they need each other.
399
00:22:41,030 --> 00:22:41,906
Pal.
400
00:22:44,367 --> 00:22:45,660
Buddy.
401
00:22:46,953 --> 00:22:51,332
It's their relationship, you
have this person who's really
angry at the world, upset,
402
00:22:51,416 --> 00:22:55,169
should be like this or like
that, he thinks he's a genius,
maybe he's not,
403
00:22:55,253 --> 00:22:58,882
and then you have this really
sweet other person who's
sometimes an enabler.
404
00:22:58,965 --> 00:23:01,092
You stupid.
405
00:23:01,175 --> 00:23:02,552
- [thumps]
- [Ren groans]
406
00:23:02,635 --> 00:23:03,678
[Ren] Idiot!
407
00:23:03,761 --> 00:23:06,764
[somber music playing]
408
00:23:06,848 --> 00:23:09,726
It's kind of stylized toxicity,
you know,
409
00:23:09,809 --> 00:23:11,811
and there's a...
there's a yin-yang to it.
410
00:23:15,023 --> 00:23:17,775
[John] People always ask me
if I identify
with either of them.
411
00:23:19,402 --> 00:23:23,156
Well, I'm not gonna say that I
identify with... with an idiot,
412
00:23:23,239 --> 00:23:27,368
um, but I... I... I guess I do
identify with an asshole.
413
00:23:27,493 --> 00:23:29,787
So, Ren is the one
I identify with more.
414
00:23:32,707 --> 00:23:35,710
[sad music playing]
415
00:23:37,086 --> 00:23:42,467
John is clearly Ren.
And Stimpy was Lynne.
416
00:23:42,550 --> 00:23:46,471
Never angry,
just always heart first,
feeling first.
417
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:51,601
For me, in the beginning
of Ren & Stimpy was
a mom-and-pop shop.
418
00:23:51,684 --> 00:23:54,395
It was John and Lynne
and, you know,
419
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,564
everyone else was support
for that, you know,
420
00:23:56,648 --> 00:24:02,028
'cause they were...
They've been together
for 13 years or so.
421
00:24:02,111 --> 00:24:05,114
And she could draw
just as well as he could.
422
00:24:09,661 --> 00:24:13,081
[light music playing]
423
00:24:13,164 --> 00:24:15,500
[John]
While I was at Sheridan College,
424
00:24:15,583 --> 00:24:19,128
one of the assignments we had
was to take a famous cartoon
character and draw it.
425
00:24:19,212 --> 00:24:23,341
So, I chose Merlin the magician
from The Sword in the Stone,
426
00:24:23,424 --> 00:24:25,385
which was one of my favorite
Disney movies when I was a kid.
427
00:24:26,386 --> 00:24:30,098
There was this really cute girl
and I saw her put her drawings
down
428
00:24:30,181 --> 00:24:31,849
and Merlin the magician
was one of them,
429
00:24:31,933 --> 00:24:33,893
but I saw it had
this really unique style
430
00:24:33,977 --> 00:24:37,146
that didn't look like
what other people were doing.
431
00:24:37,230 --> 00:24:40,316
And I think I kind of fell
in love with her right there.
432
00:24:42,777 --> 00:24:47,824
In 1979, I moved to California,
to L.A.
I was missing Lynne.
433
00:24:47,907 --> 00:24:49,450
I said, "Why don't you
come down, man?"
434
00:24:49,575 --> 00:24:53,079
Sneak across the border
like I did. I told her how.
435
00:24:53,162 --> 00:24:56,958
I hope I don't go to jail
for this.
Luckily, I'm a citizen now.
436
00:24:57,041 --> 00:25:01,671
[romantic music playing]
437
00:25:01,754 --> 00:25:06,300
[Lynne] I pictured it to be
completely different like Beach
Boys, the beach
438
00:25:06,384 --> 00:25:09,804
and, you know, Hollywood
and fine and I thought
that was all golden
439
00:25:09,887 --> 00:25:12,432
and... And crystal
and sparkly and it wasn't.
440
00:25:12,515 --> 00:25:14,892
And getting a job
was really tough at that time.
441
00:25:14,976 --> 00:25:17,979
[John] I had trouble trying to
get my style into the business.
442
00:25:18,062 --> 00:25:20,148
You know, when they looked
at my stuff, they liked it
but they said,
443
00:25:20,231 --> 00:25:23,234
"Hey, but it's like
too Looney Tunes.
It's... been done before."
444
00:25:23,317 --> 00:25:25,570
Then after a while
I called, uh, Jim Gomez.
445
00:25:26,571 --> 00:25:30,408
We both went to Sheridan College
and I met John there and
the union had gone on strike,
446
00:25:30,491 --> 00:25:32,785
the animation union had gone on
strike the day we had showed up.
447
00:25:32,869 --> 00:25:34,454
It was the first strike
in four years.
448
00:25:34,537 --> 00:25:36,247
So, I ended up working
at 7-Eleven.
449
00:25:36,330 --> 00:25:39,667
We didn't have any money,
so we had to rent one place.
450
00:25:39,751 --> 00:25:42,754
[Jim Gomez] It was a bachelor
apartment, there was no bedroom,
it was one room.
451
00:25:42,837 --> 00:25:44,672
There was four of us in there.
452
00:25:44,756 --> 00:25:46,758
It's 112 degrees
out in Los Angeles,
you know how it is here,
453
00:25:46,841 --> 00:25:48,843
sometimes it gets unbearable,
454
00:25:48,926 --> 00:25:50,762
there's no air-conditioning,
there's roaches
all over the place.
455
00:25:50,845 --> 00:25:53,806
You know, sometimes we'd stay up
all night just killing roaches.
456
00:25:53,890 --> 00:25:55,475
John had bought
all these roach traps
457
00:25:55,558 --> 00:25:58,186
which we called Muhammad Ali
roach traps, had a picture
of the champ on it.
458
00:25:58,269 --> 00:26:00,354
It was one of his more
dubious business deals.
459
00:26:00,438 --> 00:26:02,315
And they couldn't get rid
of the damn bugs,
they're everywhere.
460
00:26:02,398 --> 00:26:04,067
I was like,
"Oh, my God, it's crazy."
461
00:26:04,150 --> 00:26:06,652
I remember there's big jar
of pickles in the fridge.
462
00:26:06,736 --> 00:26:08,488
It was like big pickles.
463
00:26:08,571 --> 00:26:10,990
I think John liked
big pickles, too,
464
00:26:11,074 --> 00:26:17,705
so, there wasn't anything
to eat, like, there wasn't...
We're really hungry, so.
465
00:26:17,789 --> 00:26:20,792
[romantic music playing]
466
00:26:20,875 --> 00:26:22,210
[overlapping conversation]
467
00:26:22,293 --> 00:26:24,796
[Jim Gomez] Whenever I met
somebody in the business who I
thought was really good,
468
00:26:24,879 --> 00:26:26,923
I would take them over to John.
469
00:26:27,006 --> 00:26:30,635
[John] There's not a lot
of these, you know,
super specific people
470
00:26:30,718 --> 00:26:34,055
that have the ability
to translate their personality
or what they believe
471
00:26:34,138 --> 00:26:37,141
and what they feel through
the pencil onto the paper.
472
00:26:37,225 --> 00:26:41,479
But whenever I found
somebody like that, I would
totally latch on to the person.
473
00:26:41,562 --> 00:26:43,981
Lynne was one.
Jim Smith was one.
474
00:26:44,065 --> 00:26:45,441
Bob Camp.
475
00:26:46,692 --> 00:26:48,569
Bob and I had a good chemistry.
476
00:26:48,653 --> 00:26:51,531
We'd go everywhere together.
We'd laugh together.
477
00:26:51,614 --> 00:26:54,450
It was a perfect partnership.
478
00:26:54,534 --> 00:26:58,412
We'd listen to music on John's
record player and watch cartoons
479
00:26:58,496 --> 00:27:02,917
and we would, uh, share theories
about animation.
480
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,211
[John]
I've had people say to me
I can draw in any style,
481
00:27:05,294 --> 00:27:07,421
which basically means
they can't draw very well
482
00:27:07,505 --> 00:27:11,425
because nobody can draw in
every style except for Bob Camp.
483
00:27:11,509 --> 00:27:15,096
We had the audacity to call
ourselves big shots
484
00:27:15,179 --> 00:27:17,056
because John's always using
that term, you know,
485
00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:19,934
"Someday we're gonna be
big shots."
486
00:27:20,017 --> 00:27:23,229
[Jim Gomez] We had this naive
expectation that we were gonna
make great cartoons
487
00:27:23,312 --> 00:27:26,607
because after all nobody was,
so they would buy them from us
488
00:27:26,691 --> 00:27:28,943
because clearly,
nobody knew how to do it
489
00:27:29,026 --> 00:27:31,612
and so, if we offered them
great cartoons, naturally,
they would get made.
490
00:27:32,822 --> 00:27:35,616
Those guys did have like a real
punk... punk mentality.
491
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:38,619
They were like if we...
if we sort of set the tone
how we want it to be,
492
00:27:38,703 --> 00:27:41,247
it'll turn that way.
493
00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:44,750
That's a trip. That's a lot
of... that's a lot of hubris,
a lot of, um... a lot of balls.
494
00:27:45,668 --> 00:27:48,254
[John]
And, you know, at some point I
realized we need our own studio
495
00:27:48,337 --> 00:27:51,382
just so we can do what we
were put on Earth to do.
496
00:27:51,465 --> 00:27:54,844
[man 10] And I think Bob came up
with the term Spumco.
497
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,054
[TV static noise]
498
00:27:57,138 --> 00:27:58,973
[Bob Camp] Where are we going,
Bill?
499
00:27:59,056 --> 00:28:00,808
We're going to see the creators
of Ren & Stimpy at Spumco.
500
00:28:00,892 --> 00:28:05,062
[rock music playing]
501
00:28:09,859 --> 00:28:15,406
The Spumco offices
were kind of gross,
these weird little dank rooms.
502
00:28:15,489 --> 00:28:19,911
The best way I can describe
that studio was
it was a shithole.
503
00:28:21,662 --> 00:28:24,040
[man 11] Like it or not.
504
00:28:24,123 --> 00:28:27,585
Spumco was this horrible
old building that had been
supposedly a brothel for...
505
00:28:27,668 --> 00:28:31,672
For Paramount
and it was like covered
in ugly white tile,
506
00:28:31,756 --> 00:28:33,341
looked like a giant urinal,
basically.
507
00:28:34,342 --> 00:28:36,052
[Bob Camp] It was so much fun.
508
00:28:36,135 --> 00:28:39,639
We all were like, you know,
having a good time waiting
for somebody to kick the door
509
00:28:39,722 --> 00:28:42,350
and drag us out in the street
and tell us to get the hell out,
you know.
510
00:28:43,267 --> 00:28:45,561
[man 12] It's... it's weird
that they let us do it.
511
00:28:45,645 --> 00:28:48,356
[Bob Camp] We all were being
the bad boys, you know,
512
00:28:48,439 --> 00:28:50,608
being the Rolling Stones
of the animation industry
513
00:28:50,691 --> 00:28:54,820
and, uh, we pissed people off
and we were kind of bunch
of rude jerks.
514
00:28:54,904 --> 00:28:59,909
It was John, Bob, Vincent.
Vincent is just like
Mr. Cool Calm.
515
00:28:59,992 --> 00:29:04,288
And then Bob's intensity,
so Bob has the intensity
between John and Vincent
516
00:29:04,372 --> 00:29:05,790
but they're all demented.
517
00:29:05,873 --> 00:29:08,459
[Chris Reccardi] If an alien
spaceship landed
518
00:29:08,542 --> 00:29:10,336
and took everybody
that was hanging out there,
519
00:29:10,419 --> 00:29:13,881
it would be a really bad
sampling of the human race.
520
00:29:13,965 --> 00:29:15,091
[man 13] Lynne.
521
00:29:15,174 --> 00:29:16,259
Okay, okay.
522
00:29:16,342 --> 00:29:18,886
[giggles]
523
00:29:18,970 --> 00:29:23,224
I think the excitement was like,
"Oh, we really get to do this.
How do we do it?", you know,
524
00:29:23,307 --> 00:29:24,934
just wanting to get everything
in there.
525
00:29:26,269 --> 00:29:30,064
[man 14] Lynne was the heart,
you know,
and John was the brains
526
00:29:30,147 --> 00:29:33,651
and we were all just, you know,
playing different instruments.
527
00:29:35,069 --> 00:29:39,365
Spumco was probably
the greatest collection
528
00:29:39,448 --> 00:29:42,368
of talented artists,
529
00:29:42,451 --> 00:29:47,915
not just animators, not just
character designers, not just
background artists... artists.
530
00:29:47,999 --> 00:29:52,336
It just stunned me
like how good everyone was.
531
00:29:52,420 --> 00:29:56,507
[dramatic music playing]
532
00:29:56,590 --> 00:30:02,346
I mean, Jim Smith was the best
draftsman that I have ever met
probably in my life,
533
00:30:02,430 --> 00:30:04,515
if not for Chris Reccardi, too.
534
00:30:05,766 --> 00:30:06,892
And Bill Wray.
535
00:30:07,852 --> 00:30:11,147
He's an extraordinary artist.
536
00:30:11,230 --> 00:30:15,192
I walk in and there's Bill Wray
painting these paintings
537
00:30:15,276 --> 00:30:17,778
that I think should have been
in museums.
538
00:30:17,903 --> 00:30:20,364
This was a cartoon
and these were the backgrounds
539
00:30:20,448 --> 00:30:24,327
that were gonna be
in the cartoon that we're making
here. Oh, my God.
540
00:30:25,661 --> 00:30:31,584
We would use sponges
to do dot pattern effects.
These are makeup sponges.
541
00:30:31,667 --> 00:30:37,006
And when you're trying to get,
uh, a transition of dark to
light, you press it on there.
542
00:30:39,050 --> 00:30:41,552
[Tom] I've said for many years
and I believe this,
543
00:30:41,635 --> 00:30:44,722
there should be a coffee table
book of all Bill Wray's
backgrounds from Ren & Stimpy.
544
00:30:44,805 --> 00:30:46,766
I mean what a book
that would be.
545
00:30:46,849 --> 00:30:49,310
He started doing
abstract splashes of color
to heighten the emotion
546
00:30:49,393 --> 00:30:51,354
and that's everybody's
stealing that today.
547
00:30:53,397 --> 00:30:55,941
[Teale] John knows
what he wants, you know,
and he knows what works
548
00:30:56,025 --> 00:31:00,613
and he knows what doesn't work
and he knows what he likes.
And I think he made all of us...
549
00:31:00,696 --> 00:31:04,367
He certainly made me
a better artist,
better color stylist for sure.
550
00:31:05,659 --> 00:31:08,996
John's got a ton of charisma
and his magic
551
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:14,710
was able to bring really
multi-talented people together
in a unified force, you know,
552
00:31:14,794 --> 00:31:17,713
that... that had conviction
and belief and stuff.
553
00:31:17,797 --> 00:31:20,091
If anything could be
called genius, that's, you know,
554
00:31:20,174 --> 00:31:24,970
being able to mobilize people
to come together
to produce something great.
555
00:31:27,598 --> 00:31:30,226
[John] It's not rare
to find people
who have unique personalities.
556
00:31:30,309 --> 00:31:34,772
It's rare to find people
who can tap them
and put them on paper.
557
00:31:34,855 --> 00:31:37,900
[dramatic music playing]
558
00:31:41,237 --> 00:31:43,781
[Vince] A lot of the stuff was
just based on our emotional
experiences
559
00:31:43,864 --> 00:31:46,617
which we definitely
tried to relive
560
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:50,204
and make sure you felt whatever
it was we were feeling
at that time.
561
00:31:50,287 --> 00:31:52,623
When I was growing up,
my mother
was a Jehovah's Witness,
562
00:31:52,706 --> 00:31:54,834
I was forced to go out
and go door-to-door.
563
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,963
And you never know
what's gonna open that door.
564
00:31:59,046 --> 00:32:00,339
[clanking]
565
00:32:00,423 --> 00:32:02,591
[squeaks open]
566
00:32:02,675 --> 00:32:05,010
[man 15]
The Nipple Salesman episode,
567
00:32:05,094 --> 00:32:09,056
there's a moment where Mr. Horse
clearly is being portrayed
as a sexual predator.
568
00:32:09,140 --> 00:32:10,641
[Mr. Horse]
But I'll tell you what though...
569
00:32:11,684 --> 00:32:13,185
[creaks]
570
00:32:13,269 --> 00:32:15,855
Do you have any rubber
walrus protectors?
571
00:32:18,190 --> 00:32:20,526
Call the police.
572
00:32:21,735 --> 00:32:24,613
And, I mean, God knows
how that got through.
573
00:32:24,697 --> 00:32:28,033
Quick, man!
Cling tenaciously
to my buttocks!
574
00:32:28,117 --> 00:32:28,993
Both of them?
575
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:34,290
[groovy music playing]
576
00:32:34,373 --> 00:32:37,042
[Elinor] You know, John,
there would always be something
577
00:32:37,126 --> 00:32:39,503
in the cartoon
that he wanted to slip by.
578
00:32:40,504 --> 00:32:46,177
Their process was to bombard me
with the most intense stuff
579
00:32:46,260 --> 00:32:48,721
and, I mean, they did sneak
some things through.
580
00:32:49,972 --> 00:32:55,102
There is a very powerful
supercharged vacuum cleaner
and... and he says it can...
581
00:32:55,186 --> 00:32:59,607
This vacuum cleaner can suck
a monkey through 40 feet
of garden hose.
582
00:32:59,690 --> 00:33:01,442
[chuckling]
583
00:33:01,525 --> 00:33:03,652
It can suck a monkey
through 30 feet of garden hose.
584
00:33:03,736 --> 00:33:08,616
You hear that line, I was like,
"Oh, my God,
how did that get in?"
585
00:33:08,699 --> 00:33:11,243
[Bob Jaques] John used to hide
little bits of drawing under the
storyboard
586
00:33:11,327 --> 00:33:13,412
and he would send a copy
to Nickelodeon.
587
00:33:13,496 --> 00:33:15,956
He'd show it to me
and he'd go, "Dan,
look what we got away with,"
588
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,168
and pull a Post-it back in.
589
00:33:19,251 --> 00:33:21,921
[Elinor] They just didn't
catch it, you know,
590
00:33:22,004 --> 00:33:24,381
and then they were furious
when they saw it.
591
00:33:24,465 --> 00:33:26,509
And we were like,
"Look, it's in the storyboard."
592
00:33:26,592 --> 00:33:28,302
Man' that's pretty.
593
00:33:28,385 --> 00:33:31,680
We were constantly adding stuff,
a little innuendo there,
594
00:33:31,764 --> 00:33:34,099
a little something
in the background there.
595
00:33:34,183 --> 00:33:36,519
And Nickelodeon would we say,
you know, "Don't...
Don't, we can't do that."
596
00:33:36,602 --> 00:33:37,937
And we'd go, "Okay."
597
00:33:38,020 --> 00:33:39,438
[man 16]
What can I do for you' Officer?
598
00:33:39,522 --> 00:33:42,399
Like the glass coffee table
collection.
599
00:33:43,567 --> 00:33:47,530
And see, and I say that
to some people
and people don't get the joke,
600
00:33:47,613 --> 00:33:50,074
- so, I'll just leave it there.
- I got it.
601
00:33:50,157 --> 00:33:53,369
[Jim Ballantine] There's also a
great shot where people are
throwing hats in the air.
602
00:33:53,452 --> 00:33:55,996
If you DVD slow frame
through it,
603
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:01,877
there's an intestine that flies
up and a big turd shoots out
the side and flies off screen.
604
00:34:05,965 --> 00:34:10,427
There... There are things
I look at now going, you know,
"Where was I?"
605
00:34:10,511 --> 00:34:13,973
You can string the dingleberry
garland.
606
00:34:14,056 --> 00:34:16,392
[Vanessa] I never knew
what a dingleberry was.
607
00:34:16,475 --> 00:34:19,395
Everybody was laughing
at dingleberry garland
608
00:34:19,478 --> 00:34:22,648
and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh,
why are you laughing?
It's so sweet."
609
00:34:22,731 --> 00:34:25,568
And everyone's like, "Okay."
610
00:34:25,651 --> 00:34:29,029
That one they got...
They got on me.
611
00:34:29,154 --> 00:34:33,284
John was never more vulnerable
than when he was pleading
for me to...
612
00:34:33,367 --> 00:34:37,997
to get them to pass some jokes
that he thought were necessary
for kids to see,
613
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,125
when I would say,
"Look, uh, did what I could,
614
00:34:41,208 --> 00:34:44,044
but they're not gonna let Ren
eat his own vomit."
615
00:34:44,128 --> 00:34:45,796
There would be
this long silence on the phone
616
00:34:45,879 --> 00:34:47,965
like he just couldn't
fathom it, you know,
617
00:34:48,048 --> 00:34:51,135
he'd just be like,
"I mean... I mean,
it's not like they're fucking."
618
00:34:52,761 --> 00:34:54,763
[howling]
619
00:35:01,729 --> 00:35:05,524
If you were outside the studio,
it seemed like a cult.
620
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,777
And if you were inside
the studio, it was like cult.
621
00:35:08,861 --> 00:35:12,323
It's not a cult.
Oh, John, John, John.
622
00:35:12,406 --> 00:35:15,743
[lively music playing]
623
00:35:15,826 --> 00:35:18,162
Yeah, I could see where people
would think it's a cult.
624
00:35:21,332 --> 00:35:24,376
[Chris Reccardi]
At that time, there really
wasn't anybody older
625
00:35:24,460 --> 00:35:29,423
who was really doing anything
good like what he wanted to do.
626
00:35:29,506 --> 00:35:33,719
So, it was like
recruiting young people that
were fresh and training them.
627
00:35:33,802 --> 00:35:36,680
So, I was one of a handful
of those people.
628
00:35:37,723 --> 00:35:39,475
[Ed] Coming into
the industry I felt like,
629
00:35:39,558 --> 00:35:41,477
"Oh, there's only certain things
you are gonna be able to do,
630
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,313
so, here's where you should set
your heights," you know.
631
00:35:44,396 --> 00:35:47,608
But then with John,
it was like, "No, no,
set them way over here."
632
00:35:47,691 --> 00:35:52,404
And for RAs for 18, 19, 20,
that was what
we were looking for.
633
00:35:52,488 --> 00:35:56,408
When I first started working
there, I, uh... I had this...
634
00:35:56,492 --> 00:35:58,827
I have a really distinct memory
of going,
635
00:35:58,911 --> 00:36:02,456
"I can't believe I'm here
like this is exactly
where I need to be."
636
00:36:02,539 --> 00:36:04,792
[Mr. Lawrence] We were in the
place we needed to be
637
00:36:04,875 --> 00:36:10,798
and we were working out
primally how to make
the best cartoons.
638
00:36:10,881 --> 00:36:13,384
[Joe] It's like all of a sudden,
I'm like 18, 19
639
00:36:13,467 --> 00:36:20,766
and I'm working on a show
that is, obviously,
revolutionizing TV animation.
640
00:36:20,849 --> 00:36:24,687
And I was so enamored
of this personality.
641
00:36:24,770 --> 00:36:29,775
But in working at Spumco,
I realized that
it wasn't just John.
642
00:36:29,858 --> 00:36:33,904
John was really good
at being a driving force.
643
00:36:33,987 --> 00:36:38,909
But behind that driving force
came all of these people
that made you care.
644
00:36:41,078 --> 00:36:44,123
[mellow music playing]
645
00:36:45,541 --> 00:36:48,085
You know, the... the drawback
with cartoons is they take
so long to make
646
00:36:48,168 --> 00:36:49,545
'cause you have to...
You have to animate it
647
00:36:49,628 --> 00:36:51,338
and, you know, you can't get
the cartoon up and running.
648
00:36:51,422 --> 00:36:53,132
Unless you're South Park,
you know,
649
00:36:53,215 --> 00:36:55,634
you're gonna have to spend
a year to get a season
figured out.
650
00:36:58,846 --> 00:36:59,763
[man 17] Oh, man.
651
00:37:01,557 --> 00:37:03,142
Yeah, we will.
652
00:37:03,225 --> 00:37:06,270
As much as I talk about
how much we, uh, screwed around,
653
00:37:06,353 --> 00:37:09,898
you still had to spend a lot
of times indoor sitting down
654
00:37:09,982 --> 00:37:12,735
drawing hundreds
and hundreds of drawings.
655
00:37:12,818 --> 00:37:15,487
It's the nature of...
of animation, all those drawings
have to be done.
656
00:37:15,571 --> 00:37:20,033
It's madness.
It's cra... It is a mad medium
in that 24 frames a second
657
00:37:20,117 --> 00:37:21,452
even if you break it down.
658
00:37:24,830 --> 00:37:28,208
[David]
So, we were doing first episode,
Stimpy's Big Day.
659
00:37:28,333 --> 00:37:30,502
You could see the pressure
from the very beginning.
660
00:37:30,586 --> 00:37:35,340
Everyone was there trying
really following John K's notes,
661
00:37:35,424 --> 00:37:38,051
trying to redraw, very intense.
662
00:37:38,135 --> 00:37:41,221
And all I could think of is,
"This is not gonna last.
663
00:37:41,346 --> 00:37:44,183
It's either gonna drive...
I'm thinking of Lynne now...
664
00:37:44,266 --> 00:37:46,977
"You're either gonna go nuts
from this
665
00:37:47,060 --> 00:37:50,439
or you're gonna go further and
further down this rabbit hole."
666
00:37:51,315 --> 00:37:55,194
But then, see, I was with John
for a while, um,
as his girlfriend.
667
00:37:55,277 --> 00:37:57,613
So, uh, we broke up, so I left.
668
00:37:57,696 --> 00:38:00,741
[somber music playing]
669
00:38:01,950 --> 00:38:07,539
It was kind of like mom's going
and, uh... And we're left
with psycho dad.
670
00:38:08,665 --> 00:38:10,876
But we have two psycho dads.
671
00:38:10,959 --> 00:38:16,757
We've got John and Bob,
two alpha males who are highly
overly opinionated.
672
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:22,054
And this is like before we even
finished the first episode
of the series.
673
00:38:24,056 --> 00:38:30,020
We were all trying to live up
to John's idea of quality.
674
00:38:30,103 --> 00:38:34,024
[quirky music playing]
675
00:38:36,902 --> 00:38:43,826
John was, you know, willful
and he was, uh, eccentric,
676
00:38:43,909 --> 00:38:45,410
creatively volatile,
677
00:38:45,494 --> 00:38:48,205
hard to deal with, nasty,
but he was the artist.
678
00:38:49,122 --> 00:38:53,210
[Carey]
If he wanted to sort of jump
to the next tier of quality
679
00:38:53,293 --> 00:38:56,713
and he sort of expected
his artists to follow through
on that
680
00:38:56,797 --> 00:38:58,966
and when we didn't,
he would call us out.
681
00:38:59,967 --> 00:39:03,220
I've been called a dictator.
I disagree with that.
682
00:39:03,303 --> 00:39:05,931
He was the hardest director
I ever worked for.
683
00:39:06,014 --> 00:39:08,725
You know,
he had a sadistic edge.
684
00:39:08,809 --> 00:39:13,313
I was screamed at...
screamed at,
at least three times in public.
685
00:39:13,397 --> 00:39:15,566
The artists that worked for me
had more leeway
686
00:39:15,649 --> 00:39:18,569
than they ever had in cartoons
they worked previously
687
00:39:18,652 --> 00:39:21,697
and the cartoons
they worked on afterwards.
688
00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:24,825
There were two factions.
Some people thought
he was a crazy person,
689
00:39:24,908 --> 00:39:29,788
um, but actually John, um,
had a razor-sharp vision
of what he wanted.
690
00:39:29,872 --> 00:39:32,583
And he really does see things
nobody else can see.
That's true.
691
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,713
John could be really tough.
I would sit in there
and I'm just like,
692
00:39:37,796 --> 00:39:40,007
"Okay, you're gonna say
one more thing
693
00:39:40,090 --> 00:39:43,093
and I'm gonna take this fist
and double it up
and knock you off that stool."
694
00:39:43,176 --> 00:39:45,929
And I swear to God,
it's like he had a psychic meter
in his head
695
00:39:46,013 --> 00:39:49,933
for when that place was with me
and he would instantly go,
696
00:39:50,017 --> 00:39:51,935
"But you did a really
good thing right here
697
00:39:52,019 --> 00:39:54,229
and that's really nice
and blah blah."
It's like, "Ah, okay."
698
00:39:54,313 --> 00:39:55,647
[laughs]
699
00:39:55,731 --> 00:39:59,151
[slow music playing]
700
00:40:02,613 --> 00:40:08,869
[Elinor] You know,
it was a hard job because his
standards were so, so high.
701
00:40:08,952 --> 00:40:13,123
It was an enormous amount
of pressure
but we'd all signed up for that
702
00:40:13,206 --> 00:40:16,335
and we'd all signed up
for like no sleep
703
00:40:16,418 --> 00:40:20,297
and really long hours
and coming in on the weekend.
704
00:40:21,298 --> 00:40:25,636
[Chris Reccardi] I know in my
case and a lot of people's case,
we just had that side of us.
705
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,430
They wanted to be attached
to something really cool.
706
00:40:29,306 --> 00:40:32,893
There was a lot of talk about
like how could you work
for this guy and da da da,
707
00:40:32,976 --> 00:40:34,311
he is such a jerk.
708
00:40:34,394 --> 00:40:36,647
And you work for jerks
in your life.
709
00:40:36,730 --> 00:40:39,358
But if you work with somebody
who actually cares
about what they're doing
710
00:40:39,441 --> 00:40:42,945
and maybe take some pride in it,
that is rare actually.
711
00:40:43,028 --> 00:40:45,948
So, I'd much rather work
for the jerk who has pride
in what he's doing.
712
00:40:46,031 --> 00:40:49,242
[slow music playing]
713
00:40:49,326 --> 00:40:52,829
He's like a cartoon character
himself. I mean, you...
You go eat dinner with him
714
00:40:52,913 --> 00:40:54,289
and he orders a salad
and he goes,
715
00:40:54,373 --> 00:40:55,999
"Queer times,
what the hell is that?"
716
00:40:56,083 --> 00:40:57,876
And he'd pick them up
and throw them across the room.
717
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,421
You know, he's badly behaved,
you know, but... But funny.
718
00:41:01,546 --> 00:41:05,801
[Eddie] John's secret is,
if he doesn't get it
the first time,
719
00:41:05,884 --> 00:41:10,514
he'll try ten more times
and if that doesn't work,
he'll try a hundred times.
720
00:41:10,597 --> 00:41:13,934
He will do something
until he gets it.
721
00:41:14,017 --> 00:41:16,144
He obsesses
over getting it right.
722
00:41:17,062 --> 00:41:21,441
And if you're doing the thing
right, uh, it's never easy.
723
00:41:24,152 --> 00:41:26,279
It's all about,
if you can't stand the heat,
724
00:41:26,363 --> 00:41:28,865
get out of the kitchen
and everything is fair game
725
00:41:28,949 --> 00:41:32,202
and you pick on everybody
and everybody picks on you
726
00:41:32,285 --> 00:41:34,705
and, you know,
you don't hold back any punches.
727
00:41:34,788 --> 00:41:36,957
It was like that
at Ren & Stimpy.
728
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,712
And, uh, I think if John K
were normal,
the show would be more normal.
729
00:41:42,587 --> 00:41:45,340
[boings]
730
00:41:45,424 --> 00:41:47,467
[shivering]
731
00:41:49,970 --> 00:41:55,142
My hands... dirty.
732
00:41:57,477 --> 00:41:59,271
The dirt won't come off!
733
00:42:00,647 --> 00:42:01,982
[jarring indication]
734
00:42:02,065 --> 00:42:04,026
Ahh!
735
00:42:04,109 --> 00:42:07,988
A lot of people think that Ren
& Stimpy is sho... shock.
736
00:42:09,114 --> 00:42:12,576
To me, it's not...
It wasn't shock at all.
737
00:42:12,659 --> 00:42:18,081
I... I really believe
that it was characters
expressing just emotions
738
00:42:18,165 --> 00:42:21,084
that are kind of horrifying
to look at
739
00:42:21,168 --> 00:42:27,841
or people are scared to look at
of depression and mental
problems, delusions.
740
00:42:30,302 --> 00:42:35,307
It's psychological and John
was a master at transferring
741
00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:38,477
what was here
directly into your mind.
742
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,814
[mellow music playing]
743
00:42:42,898 --> 00:42:48,153
The one thing I noticed early on
is the characters were assuming
the shape of their emotion.
744
00:42:48,236 --> 00:42:50,530
If they were depressed, they
were kind of flattened down.
745
00:42:50,614 --> 00:42:53,533
If they were real happy,
they were stretched and...
And lively
746
00:42:53,617 --> 00:42:58,080
and, you know, it was...
It was almost you were looking
at symbols of emotions.
747
00:42:58,163 --> 00:43:00,123
And then when you had
the expressions on top,
748
00:43:00,207 --> 00:43:02,000
it just made it
that much stronger.
749
00:43:05,712 --> 00:43:09,800
[Mike] The characters emote,
they change,
they squash and stretch.
750
00:43:09,883 --> 00:43:13,678
They express themselves
in visually grotesque way.
751
00:43:14,638 --> 00:43:18,475
We got to know who Ren & Stimpy
were in their heads.
752
00:43:18,558 --> 00:43:21,436
We got to see psychologically
what was going on in there.
753
00:43:22,104 --> 00:43:23,855
- Hey.
- [crackles]
754
00:43:23,939 --> 00:43:25,816
[screams]
755
00:43:25,899 --> 00:43:28,902
It's happening again' my brain!
756
00:43:28,985 --> 00:43:34,574
I think John really tried to...
to get expressions
that are kind of based on life
757
00:43:34,658 --> 00:43:39,579
and trying to do a cartoon take
on something
that's very specific,
758
00:43:39,704 --> 00:43:44,793
something complex
and not just like something
out of the Preston Blair book.
759
00:43:44,876 --> 00:43:47,921
[light music playing]
760
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:55,887
There were a lot of studios
and cartoons that had a very
formulaic use of this is what,
761
00:43:55,971 --> 00:43:58,390
you know, their lip-sync chart
looks like this
762
00:43:58,473 --> 00:44:03,812
and, you know, that people
would just kind of plug it in
and John was like, "No."
763
00:44:03,895 --> 00:44:05,021
[laughs]
764
00:44:05,939 --> 00:44:09,860
While you were drawing,
you had to make the expression.
765
00:44:09,943 --> 00:44:13,488
So, if Stimpy was smiling,
you were smiling
while you were drawing.
766
00:44:13,572 --> 00:44:17,909
Or, you know, if he was angry,
you had to really put it
into the cartoon.
767
00:44:19,619 --> 00:44:22,289
So, we had to study acting.
768
00:44:22,372 --> 00:44:24,040
[John]
Takes a long time to become
a good animator
769
00:44:24,124 --> 00:44:26,334
just like it takes a long time
to become a good actor.
770
00:44:28,211 --> 00:44:31,381
[Elinor] You know, back then,
laserdiscs was a big thing,
771
00:44:31,464 --> 00:44:35,760
so, John and I would get
all these laser discs
so we could freeze frame them.
772
00:44:36,928 --> 00:44:41,975
We studied a lot of the sort of
classic Hollywood actors
that actually overacted.
773
00:44:42,058 --> 00:44:44,352
Kirk Douglas was a favorite.
774
00:44:44,436 --> 00:44:47,606
Dirty pictures
you put there today.
775
00:44:47,689 --> 00:44:49,191
Dirty pictures?
776
00:44:49,274 --> 00:44:50,233
Yes.
777
00:44:51,985 --> 00:44:57,616
[Elinor] Kirk Douglas,
the amount of crazy expressions
that goes into his face
778
00:44:57,699 --> 00:45:00,452
for one expression
is like staggering.
779
00:45:02,662 --> 00:45:05,373
If you were to look
at all the drawings
780
00:45:05,457 --> 00:45:10,128
and see what went into,
you know, one of Ren or Stimpy's
expressions,
781
00:45:10,212 --> 00:45:12,088
it would be like, "Wow."
782
00:45:14,174 --> 00:45:17,969
[John] One of the things I love
about Kirk Douglas
is he reminded me of my dad
783
00:45:19,554 --> 00:45:22,557
and he reminds me of men,
in general,
maybe not the man of today.
784
00:45:22,641 --> 00:45:28,438
But, traditionally,
men try to keep their emotions
inside
785
00:45:28,521 --> 00:45:30,565
but they can't ultimately
because it builds up.
786
00:45:30,649 --> 00:45:34,986
The more you keep it inside,
you don't cry
and you don't yell,
787
00:45:35,070 --> 00:45:38,698
it's just churning
like lava inside you and...
788
00:45:38,782 --> 00:45:43,286
I used to watch my dad,
whenever my dad was chewing
me out or lecturing me,
789
00:45:43,370 --> 00:45:49,209
I'd see him like... he's doing
this, "Listen Johnny..."
790
00:45:49,292 --> 00:45:50,710
[groans]
791
00:45:50,794 --> 00:45:53,171
...and I could tell
what his feeling is,
792
00:45:53,255 --> 00:45:57,717
"I don't want to kill the guy
but I have to somehow
get through... through him
793
00:45:57,842 --> 00:46:00,262
'cause he's such a damn moron."
794
00:46:00,345 --> 00:46:04,349
So, he's holding back all those
violence and I'd see his face
twisting and boiling.
795
00:46:04,432 --> 00:46:07,978
I was like, "Oh, shit."
But it was entertaining.
796
00:46:11,189 --> 00:46:13,942
You know what it's like
when you're a kid
and you're having dinner
797
00:46:14,025 --> 00:46:15,735
and you're supposed
to be in good behavior
798
00:46:15,819 --> 00:46:18,154
and the more you're trying
to be on good behavior,
799
00:46:18,238 --> 00:46:20,824
the more you hear
your friend snickering.
800
00:46:20,907 --> 00:46:23,410
And then you can't look at them,
right, and you start to snicker.
801
00:46:23,493 --> 00:46:25,578
[snickers]
802
00:46:25,662 --> 00:46:28,039
And then you watch your dad
getting madder and madder,
you know,
803
00:46:28,123 --> 00:46:29,332
until he breaks
the fork in half.
804
00:46:31,626 --> 00:46:33,169
I was scared shitless.
805
00:46:34,170 --> 00:46:38,383
But I... You know,
whenever I saw anybody doing
some kind of extreme emotion,
806
00:46:38,466 --> 00:46:45,765
going through an extreme trauma,
it's like a movie camera
went off in my head
807
00:46:45,849 --> 00:46:47,559
and I'll just absorb it.
808
00:46:47,642 --> 00:46:50,687
I wouldn't even be paying
attention to what was being said
809
00:46:50,770 --> 00:46:55,150
or what the meaning of it was,
it's just a turmoil
that I was watching.
810
00:46:58,528 --> 00:47:03,074
It's a man trying to be like
a normal conservative, you know,
811
00:47:03,158 --> 00:47:09,789
Leave It to Beaver-type dad
to make me become
a normal conservative,
812
00:47:10,874 --> 00:47:16,087
a clean-cut boy, you know,
they can be proud of
with his friends and brag about.
813
00:47:16,171 --> 00:47:17,213
That was never gonna happen.
814
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,801
I spent most of my time
in the basement just drawing.
815
00:47:21,926 --> 00:47:24,888
Drawing and copying characters
out of comic books
816
00:47:24,971 --> 00:47:27,640
and... and that my dad
thought was... that was nuts
817
00:47:27,724 --> 00:47:32,687
and that reading comic books
was destroying my mind.
I think he was right.
818
00:47:32,771 --> 00:47:37,400
But I had to hide them
under my bed and stuff,
but he'd always find them.
819
00:47:37,484 --> 00:47:40,987
Man, he'd would blow up,
start kicking the comic books
all over the room.
820
00:47:43,656 --> 00:47:46,409
But, yeah, and there was...
there was never any question
in my mind
821
00:47:46,493 --> 00:47:50,455
that I was going to be
a cartoonist,
come hell or high water.
822
00:47:51,414 --> 00:47:53,166
My dad will get mad at me
and then,
823
00:47:53,249 --> 00:47:57,420
"Only one in a million will
make it in Hollywood, buddy.
824
00:47:57,504 --> 00:47:59,130
You think you're gonna be
that one?"
825
00:48:00,215 --> 00:48:03,551
I'm like, "Yeah,
I think I'll be one of them."
826
00:48:03,635 --> 00:48:09,057
[dramatic music playing]
827
00:48:19,317 --> 00:48:21,152
[siren blares]
828
00:48:21,236 --> 00:48:22,987
[screams]
829
00:48:23,071 --> 00:48:25,031
At last I have control
of your TV set.
830
00:48:25,115 --> 00:48:26,658
Are you receiving me?
831
00:48:26,741 --> 00:48:28,535
Welcome to our secret
headquarters.
832
00:48:28,618 --> 00:48:31,538
Thousands of miles
below the Earth's crust.
833
00:48:31,621 --> 00:48:33,164
Shut up, you fool!
834
00:48:33,248 --> 00:48:36,209
How do we know
we can trust them?
835
00:48:36,292 --> 00:48:39,295
[ominous music playing]
836
00:48:40,588 --> 00:48:44,259
[John] I realized
that Ren & Stimpy was a success
on a Monday
837
00:48:44,342 --> 00:48:45,760
after the first episode aired.
838
00:48:45,844 --> 00:48:48,138
I mean everybody knew.
Oh, it's working.
839
00:48:49,097 --> 00:48:53,643
Every week,
the audience would get bigger
and bigger and bigger.
840
00:48:53,726 --> 00:48:56,896
Think about this,
you're working
for another studio,
841
00:48:57,021 --> 00:49:03,653
the shows are airing and all
the artists are running
into a room to watch the shows.
842
00:49:03,736 --> 00:49:09,033
We had a bet and, uh, I bet
that we would get to a 4.0.
843
00:49:09,117 --> 00:49:11,661
I was told it's impossible.
844
00:49:11,744 --> 00:49:16,791
And I don't know, I believe
it was the fourth airing of the
first episode of Ren & Stimpy,
845
00:49:16,875 --> 00:49:18,251
we got a 4.0.
846
00:49:18,334 --> 00:49:20,336
It was first time
in cable history.
847
00:49:20,420 --> 00:49:22,755
Ren & Stimpy
was just this weird show
848
00:49:22,839 --> 00:49:25,383
that people were talking about
in the animation industry.
849
00:49:25,467 --> 00:49:27,844
And then, all of a sudden,
bam, it was like a hit.
850
00:49:27,927 --> 00:49:31,222
[rock music playing]
851
00:49:36,186 --> 00:49:38,521
- [man 18] So, you guys have been
Ren & Stimpy, you're going in?
- [man 19] Yeah.
852
00:49:38,605 --> 00:49:39,689
[man 18]
All right, I'll see you.
853
00:49:40,607 --> 00:49:43,026
[John] Golden Apple,
a comic book store
down the street,
854
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:46,488
was having signing
with the Spumco artists.
855
00:49:46,571 --> 00:49:50,283
We expected a few
hundred people. We got a couple
of thousand people showed up.
856
00:49:50,366 --> 00:49:54,621
[rock music playing]
857
00:49:54,704 --> 00:49:58,500
We're driving down Melrose
like, "Oh, wow!"
858
00:49:58,583 --> 00:50:02,879
And the line went literally
around the block
to get in to see us
859
00:50:02,962 --> 00:50:06,341
and talk to us
about Ren & Stimpy.
860
00:50:07,717 --> 00:50:09,886
[Chris Reccardi] Cartoons
weren't fucking cool then.
861
00:50:09,969 --> 00:50:12,680
These were like sexy
young people, you know.
862
00:50:12,764 --> 00:50:17,685
[man 18] These guys are the best
animators walking
on this planet, no lie.
863
00:50:17,769 --> 00:50:20,939
It's like, you know, suddenly,
we had like girls following us
back to Spumco to...
864
00:50:21,022 --> 00:50:22,315
To look at the studio.
865
00:50:22,398 --> 00:50:27,654
[rock music playing]
866
00:50:29,864 --> 00:50:33,409
[somber music playing]
867
00:50:33,493 --> 00:50:38,498
[John] I drove down to Golden
Apple and they were running Ren
& Stimpy cartons on a monitor.
868
00:50:38,581 --> 00:50:40,917
I walked in right as it was
playing Space Madness,
869
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,710
playing the part
about the ice-cream bar.
870
00:50:42,794 --> 00:50:45,380
Everybody in the audience
was chanting along with it,
871
00:50:45,463 --> 00:50:47,549
they've memorized
the damn speech.
872
00:50:52,136 --> 00:50:54,847
I don't know the exact date
but it was shortly
after the show aired.
873
00:50:54,931 --> 00:50:57,809
My dad, he called me and said,
"Oh, you did it.
874
00:50:57,892 --> 00:51:00,562
I was wrong. You pulled it off.
I don't know how.
875
00:51:01,521 --> 00:51:04,190
It's pretty weird stuff but
seems like everybody likes it.
876
00:51:04,274 --> 00:51:08,695
But don't do the space ones.
The space ones are stupid."
877
00:51:08,778 --> 00:51:10,613
[interviewer] Did you do
any space ones after that?
878
00:51:10,697 --> 00:51:11,573
No.
879
00:51:12,740 --> 00:51:17,036
I'd gotten so used to obeying
my dad, following his rules.
880
00:51:17,161 --> 00:51:21,708
[somber music playing]
881
00:51:42,854 --> 00:51:45,773
Vanessa faxed me
a bunch of fan letters.
882
00:51:45,857 --> 00:51:48,818
So, people not only did
they like it and laughed,
883
00:51:48,901 --> 00:51:50,361
they were kind of
obsessed with it.
884
00:51:56,534 --> 00:52:00,079
I was way into Ren & Stimpy
when I was a kid.
885
00:52:00,204 --> 00:52:04,751
So, I started drawing Ren
& Stimpy, I took animation
classes at a kid's museum.
886
00:52:04,834 --> 00:52:09,297
And then when I was 13,
I started writing to John K.
887
00:52:10,923 --> 00:52:14,844
I had built him up in my mind
since I was 11 or 12 years old.
888
00:52:17,180 --> 00:52:21,684
You know, he had this sort
of Rockstar status in the '90s.
889
00:52:23,144 --> 00:52:26,314
I had always wanted
to work for him.
890
00:52:26,397 --> 00:52:30,234
And just thought that the...
the drawings
were just like really cool
891
00:52:30,318 --> 00:52:33,279
compared to anything I'd seen
on TV and I wanted to draw
like that.
892
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,950
I just... I liked intensity
and things.
893
00:52:38,034 --> 00:52:41,329
Ren's going insane and Stimpy's
tone looks really gross
894
00:52:41,412 --> 00:52:43,915
and so, you know, it's perfect
for that age of kid.
895
00:52:49,462 --> 00:52:53,549
I remember one night, I was just
sitting there in my living room
and feeling really bad...
896
00:52:53,633 --> 00:52:59,514
sorry for myself
and I was flipping channels
and Ren & Stimpy was on.
897
00:53:00,515 --> 00:53:03,851
And I thought I was having
an acid flashback.
898
00:53:03,935 --> 00:53:08,356
[light music playing]
899
00:53:13,319 --> 00:53:15,071
I didn't even know
what the fuck it was.
900
00:53:15,154 --> 00:53:21,160
I literally just turned on a TV
and I saw it and I was like,
901
00:53:21,244 --> 00:53:22,870
"Oh, this is mine."
902
00:53:22,954 --> 00:53:25,289
Loved Ren & Stimpy.
903
00:53:25,373 --> 00:53:27,709
Yeah, I mean,
it kicked so much ass,
904
00:53:27,792 --> 00:53:33,256
it was so influential
and it was like disgusting,
hilarious, and sexual.
905
00:53:34,465 --> 00:53:39,262
I mean, it's all clean,
there's no bad language,
there's no pornography,
906
00:53:39,345 --> 00:53:45,184
it's just that you can feel the
throbbing energy behind the art.
907
00:53:45,309 --> 00:53:47,437
That's it,
you're in our secret club!
908
00:53:48,521 --> 00:53:52,483
It felt like something that was
just ours and it was weird
909
00:53:52,567 --> 00:53:54,819
but like you were part of it,
like you just got it.
910
00:53:54,902 --> 00:53:58,322
[mellow music playing]
911
00:53:58,406 --> 00:54:02,744
My name is Scotty
and I'm just a regular schmuck
like anybody else
912
00:54:02,827 --> 00:54:06,664
but I just have a massive
affinity for this cartoon
and its merchandise.
913
00:54:08,416 --> 00:54:12,462
These are all new things
like toilet paper and calendars.
914
00:54:12,545 --> 00:54:14,547
These are all the, uh, comics.
915
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:17,175
These are all the factory
direct ones.
Little plushies here.
916
00:54:17,258 --> 00:54:22,930
The Ren & Stimpy slippers
that they sold at Spencer's and
they sold them just like this.
917
00:54:23,014 --> 00:54:26,517
You had... had about like one
clubfoot and one skinny foot.
918
00:54:26,601 --> 00:54:31,230
So, I bought two pairs
just so I had a pair of each
I could wear, you know,
919
00:54:31,314 --> 00:54:33,858
a pair of Ren
or a pair of Stimpy.
920
00:54:33,941 --> 00:54:35,902
I've always been into cartoons
921
00:54:35,985 --> 00:54:39,113
and I've never had a cartoon
just grab me by the sack
and said,
922
00:54:39,197 --> 00:54:42,992
"You're coming with us."
This one did.
923
00:54:43,075 --> 00:54:45,536
I was, you know, young,
just under 20
924
00:54:45,620 --> 00:54:48,790
and, you know, I'd started
smoking weed at that same time,
925
00:54:48,873 --> 00:54:51,876
so, they were quite a fucking
combo, I'd tell you that.
926
00:54:51,959 --> 00:54:55,213
They were playing them all back
to back on a Saturday or Sunday
927
00:54:55,296 --> 00:54:57,507
and a buddy of mine recorded
on it... on his VHS recorder
928
00:54:57,590 --> 00:55:00,718
and I watched that thing
until it was...
929
00:55:00,802 --> 00:55:04,555
I mean, it almost obliterated,
the tape was just so worn out.
930
00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:07,183
You would play...
play it on slow
and you would just hit a button
931
00:55:07,266 --> 00:55:09,602
and it would just take you
frame by frame by frame by frame
932
00:55:09,685 --> 00:55:11,646
and there was a different
picture in every frame.
933
00:55:11,729 --> 00:55:13,773
It was...
I mean, it was un... Unreal.
934
00:55:13,856 --> 00:55:17,109
Whenever...
Whenever you see perfection,
recognize it.
935
00:55:17,193 --> 00:55:19,403
And they had
their perfect moment.
936
00:55:19,487 --> 00:55:23,157
[mellow music playing]
937
00:55:25,284 --> 00:55:30,081
[Richard] You know, in 1994,
I think the merchandising
for Ren & Stimpy
938
00:55:30,164 --> 00:55:33,960
was like four billion dollars
or something insane like that.
939
00:55:34,043 --> 00:55:36,796
No one had ever seen
anything like that, you know.
940
00:55:36,879 --> 00:55:39,590
This was creator-driven
cartoons.
941
00:55:40,591 --> 00:55:43,845
That whole created
by that being new.
942
00:55:43,928 --> 00:55:46,722
That turned it
into an auteur form.
943
00:55:46,806 --> 00:55:51,936
Before, it was, uh, by committee
toys steered the show.
944
00:55:52,019 --> 00:55:55,022
It had to be a pre-existing
something.
945
00:55:55,106 --> 00:55:57,525
But who... who created that,
you know.
946
00:55:57,608 --> 00:56:01,696
Who created
the Transformers cartoon?
947
00:56:01,779 --> 00:56:03,614
Who created He-Man?
948
00:56:03,698 --> 00:56:09,161
You have to go way back to get
Hanna-Barbera or Chuck Jones.
949
00:56:09,245 --> 00:56:14,542
Ren & Stimpy with,
created by John K,
brought that back.
950
00:56:15,459 --> 00:56:18,212
[John] I wanted the world
to know who did it.
951
00:56:18,296 --> 00:56:23,843
So, I elevated the top artists
like Vincent and Bob and Jim,
Chris Reccardi,
952
00:56:23,926 --> 00:56:28,806
but I had to fight to be allowed
to do it because they didn't
like the idea at Nickelodeon.
953
00:56:28,890 --> 00:56:30,975
Well, Stimpy'
what's on TV tonight?
954
00:56:32,435 --> 00:56:33,811
Oh' joy!
955
00:56:33,895 --> 00:56:35,730
Hey, Ren, it's Commander Hoek...
956
00:56:35,813 --> 00:56:38,733
People tend to think that like
if you have a good character,
you come up with Bugs Bunny.
957
00:56:38,816 --> 00:56:40,318
Wow, it's gold.
958
00:56:40,401 --> 00:56:43,237
But look at how many
times they've tried to revive
Bugs Bunny
959
00:56:43,321 --> 00:56:45,323
with different people doing it.
960
00:56:45,406 --> 00:56:49,035
None of them ever come close
to the success of the original
Bugs Bunny.
961
00:56:49,118 --> 00:56:54,165
It's not Bugs Bunny
that is the, uh... That is
the... the golden property.
962
00:56:54,248 --> 00:56:55,166
It's the artists.
963
00:56:55,249 --> 00:56:59,170
[calm music playing]
964
00:56:59,253 --> 00:57:02,006
I think a lot of great art
hides in kids' cartoons.
965
00:57:03,049 --> 00:57:06,344
What Ren & Stimpy had
that other shows didn't have
were these close-ups.
966
00:57:06,427 --> 00:57:09,180
So, you'd have like Ren & Stimpy
doing something
and then something disgusting
967
00:57:09,263 --> 00:57:12,224
and they would have
this like weird jarring music
like...
968
00:57:12,308 --> 00:57:14,685
[grumbles]
969
00:57:14,769 --> 00:57:18,814
...and it would be a close-up of
just very detailed topographical
look at someone's skin
970
00:57:18,898 --> 00:57:20,608
or a booger.
971
00:57:20,691 --> 00:57:23,361
And you never got to see
that stuff on other cartoons.
972
00:57:23,444 --> 00:57:25,863
It was unapologetic
and disgusting.
973
00:57:25,947 --> 00:57:30,034
If we're gonna show a still,
it better be great.
It better be amazing painting.
974
00:57:30,117 --> 00:57:33,079
It better be this great painting
we can hold on, you know,
975
00:57:33,162 --> 00:57:35,706
and be disgusting, you know,
as dis... as... as gross
976
00:57:35,790 --> 00:57:39,919
and we're gonna make you sit
on it 'cause it's so beautiful
but, yet, it's so, so gross.
977
00:57:40,002 --> 00:57:41,379
[creaks]
978
00:57:41,462 --> 00:57:42,588
[squelching]
979
00:57:42,672 --> 00:57:44,423
[screams]
980
00:57:44,507 --> 00:57:46,968
[John] I didn't think of myself,
"Oh, I'm gonna push boundaries."
981
00:57:47,051 --> 00:57:49,178
I was more about like,
"How do you get quality?"
982
00:57:50,137 --> 00:57:54,642
[man 20] Ren & Stimpy
was an anomaly in its time.
He did not want scripts.
983
00:57:54,725 --> 00:57:58,854
Script-driven shows were like
anathema to us and to John.
984
00:57:58,938 --> 00:58:00,982
He didn't want to have to follow
someone's script.
985
00:58:01,065 --> 00:58:04,360
He wanted...
He felt like cartoonists
were funnier than writers.
986
00:58:04,443 --> 00:58:07,780
And to a degree, he was right.
I mean,
for this show he was right.
987
00:58:07,863 --> 00:58:11,450
He felt like it was important
for him to convey to me
my uselessness.
988
00:58:11,575 --> 00:58:13,911
You know what I mean?
It's like...
989
00:58:13,995 --> 00:58:16,372
And I was... I said,
"What... We... Didn't we just
have waffles and chicken?
990
00:58:16,455 --> 00:58:18,708
Now you're telling me
I'm just... I'm nothing?"
991
00:58:18,791 --> 00:58:21,961
People who aren't cartoon
writers are not very good
at writing cartoons.
992
00:58:22,044 --> 00:58:26,007
It's just like you try to write
a music score without knowing
how to read music, without...
993
00:58:26,090 --> 00:58:29,635
Or never playing an instrument
and try to describe it in words.
994
00:58:29,719 --> 00:58:32,471
John's legacy is that he reset
the clock on animation,
995
00:58:32,596 --> 00:58:36,267
that he reestablished
the storyboard artists
996
00:58:36,350 --> 00:58:40,354
and the artists, in general,
as the king of animation.
997
00:58:40,438 --> 00:58:42,440
[Carey] You had to be
constantly moving forward.
998
00:58:42,523 --> 00:58:45,776
There's a lot of, "Oh, this part
of the drawing is working.
999
00:58:45,860 --> 00:58:48,279
I'm keeping these eyes
but they're too big,
1000
00:58:48,362 --> 00:58:50,698
so, I'm gonna size them down
on the Xerox machine
1001
00:58:50,781 --> 00:58:52,491
and then I'm just gonna work
on the body a little bit."
1002
00:58:52,616 --> 00:58:54,368
And then you cut
and paste into it.
1003
00:58:54,452 --> 00:58:56,996
So now you've got like three or
four or five different elements
1004
00:58:57,079 --> 00:59:02,334
and then you're using
liquid paper and so you've got
this like just mess,
1005
00:59:02,418 --> 00:59:04,503
and your pencil would go...
[grumbles]
1006
00:59:04,587 --> 00:59:08,758
...over all these, you know,
levels of paste
and liquid paper.
1007
00:59:08,841 --> 00:59:11,719
Any other cartoon production,
they would look at...
1008
00:59:11,802 --> 00:59:13,721
at our storyboard and say,
"That's a mess."
1009
00:59:13,804 --> 00:59:17,433
It didn't matter.
The goal was to be funny.
1010
00:59:17,516 --> 00:59:18,434
Ha!
1011
00:59:19,185 --> 00:59:23,314
[bees buzzing]
1012
00:59:27,151 --> 00:59:28,027
[gasps]
1013
00:59:28,986 --> 00:59:31,530
[screams]
1014
00:59:31,655 --> 00:59:34,950
[grunting]
1015
00:59:35,034 --> 00:59:39,747
The one episode
that I really still think
about today is Toothache.
1016
00:59:42,416 --> 00:59:46,712
[sloshing]
1017
00:59:46,796 --> 00:59:47,922
[glass shatters]
1018
00:59:48,005 --> 00:59:50,633
John was always like grabbing
somebody to go to lunch.
1019
00:59:50,716 --> 00:59:53,552
He... he hated being alone.
1020
00:59:53,677 --> 00:59:57,890
So, there is this Roscoe's
Chicken N Waffles, world famous.
1021
00:59:57,973 --> 01:00:02,895
He came up with the whole idea
of Ren's toothache with the...
the nerve endings
1022
01:00:02,978 --> 01:00:07,650
and the stink and he's like,
"Yeah, so anyway, you know,
1023
01:00:07,733 --> 01:00:11,195
teeth fall out and the stink's
coming out and then,
1024
01:00:11,278 --> 01:00:15,533
and there's flies eating
the shit in the fucking cat pan
and it stinks so bad.
1025
01:00:15,616 --> 01:00:19,245
And there's this giant black guy
behind them, turns around
and goes, "Hey, hey, hey.
1026
01:00:19,328 --> 01:00:21,455
I'm trying to eat here.
1027
01:00:21,539 --> 01:00:24,041
I don't know what you guys
are talking about.
It's just disgusting."
1028
01:00:24,125 --> 01:00:28,754
[bee] Hey' hey' hey'
hey, hey, hey, hey,
we are trying to eat here
1029
01:00:28,838 --> 01:00:34,009
and you stand here, airing out
your stinky old gum holes.
1030
01:00:34,093 --> 01:00:36,887
[boing]
1031
01:00:36,971 --> 01:00:40,641
[thumping]
1032
01:00:41,976 --> 01:00:42,977
Whoo!
1033
01:00:43,060 --> 01:00:46,438
[suspenseful music playing]
1034
01:00:46,522 --> 01:00:48,107
[rumbling]
1035
01:00:48,190 --> 01:00:50,276
[farts]
1036
01:00:50,359 --> 01:00:53,779
[hissing]
1037
01:00:53,863 --> 01:00:57,908
The genius of Ren & Stimpy
was how far it went
in being outrageous.
1038
01:00:57,992 --> 01:01:01,996
It was the fact that, uh,
an outrageous show
could also have so much heart.
1039
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:05,374
[somber music playing]
1040
01:01:05,457 --> 01:01:09,587
And with that heart,
you know, you suddenly had shows
that had a balance to it.
1041
01:01:14,592 --> 01:01:17,386
[tears sloshing]
1042
01:01:20,139 --> 01:01:24,935
Yeah, that was a great episode.
Um, the name got changed
to "Son of Stimpy,"
1043
01:01:25,019 --> 01:01:27,354
but it was originally called
"Stimpy's First Fart."
1044
01:01:27,438 --> 01:01:29,899
[classical music playing]
1045
01:01:29,982 --> 01:01:32,234
[tinkling]
1046
01:01:32,318 --> 01:01:34,320
That drew a lot of criticism,
1047
01:01:34,403 --> 01:01:38,824
like, people were like,
"Alright,
you're really hitting bottom."
1048
01:01:38,908 --> 01:01:42,703
And I remember John saying,
"Oh, no, no.
This is... this is high art."
1049
01:01:46,749 --> 01:01:50,211
[Bob Camp] And you're very
sympathetic for Stimpy
and his situation, you know.
1050
01:01:50,294 --> 01:01:52,963
And he's heartbroken because
he lost his fart, you know,
1051
01:01:53,047 --> 01:01:54,882
but still, it kind of
makes you want to cry.
1052
01:01:56,592 --> 01:02:00,095
[cries]
1053
01:02:02,806 --> 01:02:06,018
I hate pathos.
It drives me crazy
because it's... it's contrived.
1054
01:02:06,101 --> 01:02:07,811
It's just like shoving it
down your throat.
1055
01:02:08,687 --> 01:02:12,566
Vanessa encouraged me,
"Can you do more scenes
in your cartoons with heart."
1056
01:02:16,278 --> 01:02:18,280
[Ren] Stinky!
1057
01:02:18,364 --> 01:02:21,951
[John] You know, as I say,
I was totally opposed
naturally to it,
1058
01:02:22,034 --> 01:02:25,204
so, instead, I came up
with a way of making fun of it.
1059
01:02:25,287 --> 01:02:29,291
[somber music playing]
1060
01:02:33,837 --> 01:02:38,717
If I'm gonna make people cry,
I'm gonna make them cry over
the most ridiculous reasons.
1061
01:02:38,842 --> 01:02:40,928
[creaks]
1062
01:02:41,011 --> 01:02:42,513
[sighs]
1063
01:02:42,596 --> 01:02:48,435
I thought
I'd never smell you again.
1064
01:02:48,519 --> 01:02:53,023
And I actually enjoy doing it.
Once I got to the point where
I could make fun of pathos,
1065
01:02:54,024 --> 01:02:55,317
I thought, "Wow,
this is a great ingredient."
1066
01:02:56,652 --> 01:02:58,028
[shouts]
1067
01:02:58,988 --> 01:03:01,115
Most of it came from Vanessa,
1068
01:03:01,198 --> 01:03:04,285
but she didn't urge me
to make fun of it,
she urged me to make her cry.
1069
01:03:04,368 --> 01:03:06,036
It's so good to have you home.
1070
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,289
Come in and sit by the fire.
1071
01:03:08,372 --> 01:03:10,916
If your mentality, like John's
I think sometimes was,
1072
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,419
is let's see how much
I can get away with.
1073
01:03:13,502 --> 01:03:15,921
After a while, that
kind of becomes self-defeating
how much I can get away with.
1074
01:03:16,005 --> 01:03:19,091
It just becomes
an end unto itself.
1075
01:03:19,174 --> 01:03:22,886
[Vanessa]
You know the idea was let
them bring as many ideas,
1076
01:03:22,970 --> 01:03:28,392
but then pull it back
because it's still television
and it's still storytelling.
1077
01:03:28,475 --> 01:03:30,519
It's not just gags.
1078
01:03:30,602 --> 01:03:34,023
It's not just being outrageous
for the sake
of being outrageous.
1079
01:03:34,106 --> 01:03:36,775
If it was left up
to just letting it go,
1080
01:03:36,859 --> 01:03:38,652
there's no way
it would have been this good.
1081
01:03:38,736 --> 01:03:40,904
[man 21]
Hey, let's just hang somebody.
1082
01:03:40,988 --> 01:03:43,324
[woman 2] Oh, my God!
1083
01:03:43,407 --> 01:03:49,288
[man 21] Then he goes, "Yeah, we
hang nobody in a long dang time!
But who we gonna hang?"
1084
01:03:50,372 --> 01:03:55,044
Really with John, you know,
probably the... the person who
dealt with him the best was Bob.
1085
01:03:57,338 --> 01:04:00,341
[John]
He didn't draw on my style
before Ren & Stimpy,
1086
01:04:00,424 --> 01:04:03,635
but once we started hanging out,
he just picked it up overnight.
1087
01:04:03,719 --> 01:04:06,555
I didn't have to give him all
the theories about maintaining
guts and all that stuff.
1088
01:04:06,638 --> 01:04:08,182
He just did it.
1089
01:04:08,265 --> 01:04:10,351
[Bob Camp] We were missing more
and more deadlines
1090
01:04:10,434 --> 01:04:13,437
and I, uh, approached Donna and
said, you know, "Let me direct."
1091
01:04:14,855 --> 01:04:20,486
[Scott] Bob was the perfect
extra director.
He wasn't as obsessive as John.
1092
01:04:20,569 --> 01:04:24,323
Bob just wanted to be really
funny and that's it.
1093
01:04:24,406 --> 01:04:28,911
Just funny, funny drawings,
funny gags and John
could do his craziness
1094
01:04:28,994 --> 01:04:31,455
and... and pushing the envelope.
1095
01:04:31,538 --> 01:04:35,000
When John and I worked together,
we made magic.
1096
01:04:35,084 --> 01:04:39,380
[dramatic music playing]
1097
01:04:40,631 --> 01:04:42,966
[thunder roars]
1098
01:04:43,050 --> 01:04:44,843
Stimpy's invention
which some would argue
1099
01:04:44,927 --> 01:04:48,263
was the ruination of the entire
Ren & Stimpy franchise
1100
01:04:48,347 --> 01:04:50,099
just because it took so long
to make,
1101
01:04:50,182 --> 01:04:53,102
maybe it was all worth it
just to have that one episode
1102
01:04:53,185 --> 01:04:57,147
just in terms of something that
gets you on every single level
1103
01:04:57,231 --> 01:05:02,361
and deserves in my mind
to be in the pantheon
of great cartoons.
1104
01:05:02,444 --> 01:05:03,904
[boings]
1105
01:05:05,197 --> 01:05:07,408
Hey, what is this thing?
1106
01:05:07,491 --> 01:05:09,284
Get it off of me.
1107
01:05:09,368 --> 01:05:11,412
It's the happy helmet' Ren.
1108
01:05:11,495 --> 01:05:16,291
Now you'll always be happy
and this is the remote control.
1109
01:05:16,375 --> 01:05:17,334
[alarm rings]
1110
01:05:17,418 --> 01:05:18,877
[teeth chattering]
1111
01:05:20,087 --> 01:05:21,422
Free!
1112
01:05:21,505 --> 01:05:24,174
Hey, it works.
1113
01:05:24,258 --> 01:05:25,634
[alarm rings]
1114
01:05:25,717 --> 01:05:30,597
Hey' what's happening to me?
1115
01:05:32,433 --> 01:05:36,979
[Will] I think John succeeded
in conveying what a cartoon
nervous breakdown would be like.
1116
01:05:37,062 --> 01:05:41,650
Ren's having his mind controlled
and it's tearing him apart.
1117
01:05:41,733 --> 01:05:44,778
It's part horror story, you
know, part comedy, part cartoon.
1118
01:05:44,862 --> 01:05:46,488
- [cackles]
- [alarm rings]
1119
01:05:47,489 --> 01:05:51,535
Can't lose control.
1120
01:05:51,618 --> 01:05:55,998
Will strong, body weak.
1121
01:05:56,081 --> 01:06:01,003
[Carey] For Stimpy's Invention,
we've got these storyboards that
were really broad and hilarious
1122
01:06:01,086 --> 01:06:04,923
and it was a Bob Camp storyboard
and it was one of the funniest
storyboards I'd ever read.
1123
01:06:05,048 --> 01:06:09,553
A lot could be learned
from comparing that storyboard
to the layouts that were done,
1124
01:06:09,636 --> 01:06:11,805
particularly, the ones
that were done by John.
1125
01:06:11,889 --> 01:06:15,893
It was like doing graphic
things that were really unusual.
1126
01:06:15,976 --> 01:06:19,313
Ren is wearing the happy helmet
and he does this bit of dialogue
1127
01:06:19,396 --> 01:06:23,525
and he says the word "go"
I believe the letters "go"
are in his mouth.
1128
01:06:23,609 --> 01:06:28,030
Hey' must go do nice things.
1129
01:06:28,113 --> 01:06:30,491
And I just, I remember
that kind of blew my mind
1130
01:06:30,574 --> 01:06:35,746
like that the level
of interpretation was getting
really right-brained.
1131
01:06:36,914 --> 01:06:40,042
[Jim Gomez]
One of the things about John
was that the bar was so high,
1132
01:06:40,125 --> 01:06:42,669
every time it passed on the
next guy, it had to be plus,
1133
01:06:42,753 --> 01:06:45,964
starting from the story
moving forward
all the way to the final.
1134
01:06:46,089 --> 01:06:49,092
[ominous music playing]
1135
01:06:49,176 --> 01:06:55,766
[David] On Stimpy's Invention,
John would fix drawings
after they had been shot.
1136
01:06:55,849 --> 01:06:58,977
The scene was done,
it was finished.
1137
01:06:59,102 --> 01:07:03,148
And John would grab the scene
and start to redo drawings.
1138
01:07:04,024 --> 01:07:08,862
[Christine] John decided to take
the show, all the elements that
we had into his office,
1139
01:07:08,946 --> 01:07:12,574
he locked the door and wouldn't
let it go out of the studio
1140
01:07:12,658 --> 01:07:17,412
until he reviewed the whole show
and did his thing on them.
1141
01:07:17,496 --> 01:07:23,669
It was incredibly horrible
emotional time
for about 6 months there
1142
01:07:23,752 --> 01:07:27,506
when we were just skidding
without delivering a show.
1143
01:07:30,259 --> 01:07:34,846
Nickelodeon came to me and said,
" Ren & Stimpy is so successful
we want to do 20 episodes now."
1144
01:07:36,723 --> 01:07:40,185
[Chris Reccardi]
Yeah, that's normally an
exciting thing in the TV world,
1145
01:07:40,269 --> 01:07:45,357
but the reality for John
was like who's... who's gonna
create all this stuff?
1146
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,735
I can barely deliver with the
crew we have now.
1147
01:07:49,820 --> 01:07:53,282
[John] I said,
"Well, we'd have to multiply
the crew by 3 and some."
1148
01:07:53,365 --> 01:07:54,658
And they said, "Go do it."
1149
01:07:56,034 --> 01:07:59,204
And here's what we get back
to what executives,
network executives,
1150
01:07:59,288 --> 01:08:02,708
think makes a good cartoon.
1151
01:08:02,791 --> 01:08:05,252
They think it's the idea.
1152
01:08:05,335 --> 01:08:08,589
Once you have the idea, then
you can just fill a studio with
bodies to do all the drawings.
1153
01:08:08,672 --> 01:08:10,716
It's... it's a crazy idea.
1154
01:08:10,799 --> 01:08:13,176
He kept going, "Well,
I have to train all these guys."
1155
01:08:13,260 --> 01:08:14,511
I said, "No, you don't.
1156
01:08:14,595 --> 01:08:15,804
Hire people that know
how to do it."
1157
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,600
[John] So, I knew that was going
to be a problem
and frustrate everybody
1158
01:08:19,683 --> 01:08:22,769
because I'd have to split
my time now into three.
1159
01:08:24,021 --> 01:08:26,189
[Jim Ballantine] My big job was
schedules and budgets
1160
01:08:26,273 --> 01:08:33,655
and getting us on track
and we were way off track.
1161
01:08:33,739 --> 01:08:37,367
Shows were delivering
months late,
1162
01:08:37,451 --> 01:08:39,995
so that's why I originally
had been brought on.
1163
01:08:40,078 --> 01:08:43,290
I think in my first interaction,
you know, with John he said,
1164
01:08:43,373 --> 01:08:49,004
"Oh, so you're the studio hat
that's been brought on to,
you know, watch us."
1165
01:08:49,087 --> 01:08:51,256
[Bob Camp] We weren't even very
far into season two,
1166
01:08:51,340 --> 01:08:53,383
we were already hundreds
of thousands of dollars
over budget
1167
01:08:53,467 --> 01:08:55,552
and months behind schedule.
1168
01:08:55,636 --> 01:09:00,807
I mean, we missed the air date
for the very second week
of Ren & Stimpy
1169
01:09:00,891 --> 01:09:03,727
and we had to rerun
the first week cartoon
1170
01:09:03,810 --> 01:09:07,439
that pissed off the advertisers
big time, you know,
1171
01:09:07,522 --> 01:09:09,107
because John couldn't
let the cartoons go.
1172
01:09:09,191 --> 01:09:12,235
[ominous music playing]
1173
01:09:13,236 --> 01:09:15,822
[Todd]
He told me one time, he was
quite sad about it and he said,
1174
01:09:15,906 --> 01:09:18,617
"You know, I wish you would just
come in here,
punch me in the face,
1175
01:09:18,700 --> 01:09:22,871
and take the work and give it
to him, just physically
take it from me."
1176
01:09:22,954 --> 01:09:25,499
[pen scraping]
1177
01:09:26,375 --> 01:09:32,631
The whole secret in animation
is to get the director
to sign off on that stage
1178
01:09:32,714 --> 01:09:35,884
whatever it is that storyboard,
that layout.
1179
01:09:35,967 --> 01:09:40,055
If John wouldn't approve
one drawing, then that footage
is sitting there.
1180
01:09:40,138 --> 01:09:42,599
What are you doing?
1181
01:09:42,683 --> 01:09:47,396
John, he was obsessing up
on way too much and being
the bottleneck in production.
1182
01:09:48,355 --> 01:09:51,608
And it ended up creating
some great cartoons,
1183
01:09:51,692 --> 01:09:57,364
but then, again, I know the cost
of those cartoons
and it was not just money.
1184
01:09:59,241 --> 01:10:02,786
[Jim Ballantine] You know,
he was really struggling
under all the pressure of it.
1185
01:10:04,955 --> 01:10:12,295
[Vanessa] He became aggressive.
I noticed how he started
abusing his artists.
1186
01:10:12,379 --> 01:10:16,675
[Joe] We would leave at like
midnight after doing all of our
scenes and stuff,
1187
01:10:16,758 --> 01:10:20,053
but John would stay up.
The man didn't sleep.
1188
01:10:20,137 --> 01:10:22,681
And he would stay up
going through everyone's work.
1189
01:10:22,764 --> 01:10:27,352
You just have to know
that people were so punished.
1190
01:10:27,436 --> 01:10:32,357
I mean, they were punished
trying to get John's approval
for a drawing.
1191
01:10:33,275 --> 01:10:35,402
[Elinor] You would like
slave away
1192
01:10:35,485 --> 01:10:38,780
and like you might be
really happy with your
scenes that you'd done
1193
01:10:38,864 --> 01:10:43,410
and then they go to John and he
was like, "This isn't a drawing.
You got to redo this, you know."
1194
01:10:43,493 --> 01:10:45,912
There wasn't a single layout
I did that didn't have,
1195
01:10:45,996 --> 01:10:48,290
at least one drawing
that he would throw away,
1196
01:10:48,373 --> 01:10:51,209
you know what I mean,
at least one drawing.
1197
01:10:51,334 --> 01:10:54,671
[John] The artist would finish
the scenes, bring them back
to get them checked
1198
01:10:54,755 --> 01:10:58,967
so they preserved storyboard
expressions,
did they push it further,
1199
01:11:00,510 --> 01:11:02,679
or did they tone it down.
1200
01:11:02,763 --> 01:11:07,058
Well, if they toned it down,
they'd get what people called
a beating.
1201
01:11:07,142 --> 01:11:10,228
[classical music playing]
1202
01:11:10,353 --> 01:11:14,775
[scraping]
1203
01:11:14,858 --> 01:11:19,905
Literally, like throwing the
layouts out on the floor like,
"Look at these.
1204
01:11:19,988 --> 01:11:21,531
This is not acceptable!"
1205
01:11:22,657 --> 01:11:24,910
[Chris Reccardi] He had all the
qualities of somebody who's like
1206
01:11:24,993 --> 01:11:27,662
borderline like a Hitler type,
you know,
1207
01:11:27,746 --> 01:11:33,251
like just total intolerance for
anything weak or unsatisfactory.
1208
01:11:33,376 --> 01:11:35,378
So, you know, like,
you draw like a fag.
1209
01:11:36,922 --> 01:11:42,636
I mean at one point,
I did kind of lose it
and I quit and I said, you know,
1210
01:11:42,719 --> 01:11:47,974
this kind of criticism
doesn't do anything to make me
better, it just, you know,
1211
01:11:48,058 --> 01:11:53,104
makes me hate you and I went
home and... and, of course,
he was really apologetic
1212
01:11:53,188 --> 01:11:55,357
and said, "No, no, no.
Come back.
You're really important."
1213
01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:58,902
So, there was,
you know, there was a lot of
psychology at play with it...
1214
01:11:58,985 --> 01:12:00,237
With the whole thing, you know.
1215
01:12:02,739 --> 01:12:04,950
[David] It was Bob Camp
who I remember the most.
1216
01:12:05,033 --> 01:12:08,870
It was like John was really
treating Bob poorly.
1217
01:12:08,954 --> 01:12:11,498
He was rejecting
all of his drawings.
1218
01:12:11,581 --> 01:12:17,420
He was complaining to him that
this is no good, that's no good,
and it was really affecting him.
1219
01:12:17,504 --> 01:12:19,214
[teeth chattering]
1220
01:12:19,297 --> 01:12:21,758
Please God, please.
1221
01:12:23,051 --> 01:12:23,969
[gasps]
1222
01:12:24,052 --> 01:12:25,387
Mm...
1223
01:12:25,470 --> 01:12:27,138
[bee buzzing]
1224
01:12:27,222 --> 01:12:28,807
[sighs]
1225
01:12:28,890 --> 01:12:30,267
Mm?
1226
01:12:30,350 --> 01:12:31,726
[teeth chattering]
1227
01:12:32,894 --> 01:12:33,937
[thuds]
1228
01:12:34,020 --> 01:12:37,691
[suspenseful music playing]
1229
01:12:41,736 --> 01:12:44,364
John did that
to a lot of people.
1230
01:12:47,284 --> 01:12:48,910
[John] Trying to make
a good quality show
1231
01:12:48,994 --> 01:12:51,830
with all these handicaps we had
in the second season,
1232
01:12:51,913 --> 01:12:54,249
you know, I was on the verge
of insanity, I think.
1233
01:12:54,332 --> 01:12:59,588
And they would add these
obstacles of throwing whole
storyboards out after the...
1234
01:12:59,671 --> 01:13:01,715
The story had been approved.
1235
01:13:01,798 --> 01:13:03,842
And we got...
Our notes got way longer.
1236
01:13:03,925 --> 01:13:06,469
That was the most frustrating
thing about the second season.
1237
01:13:07,512 --> 01:13:10,307
[Vanessa] That was hard for me
because I got a lot of pushback.
1238
01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:15,979
Initially, John and I would work
together and it was just
a give-and-take and it was fun
1239
01:13:16,062 --> 01:13:20,191
and he would listen
and then it was over.
1240
01:13:20,275 --> 01:13:23,111
[lively music playing]
1241
01:13:23,194 --> 01:13:27,240
Hello, I'm George Liquor,
American.
1242
01:13:27,324 --> 01:13:32,037
We had been working
on the boards for, uh...
It's called Man's Best Friend,
1243
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:36,124
I think, the first show
of the second season
that never got aired.
1244
01:13:36,207 --> 01:13:42,380
John pitches this idea,
we do the boards,
they get approved
1245
01:13:42,464 --> 01:13:46,051
and I go, "Wait, what?"
1246
01:13:46,134 --> 01:13:49,638
I get him alone in a room,
he's never lying to me.
1247
01:13:49,721 --> 01:13:55,977
I go, "John, are you sure
they've approved this board?"
1248
01:13:56,061 --> 01:13:58,063
He goes,
"Yep, yep. They did it."
1249
01:13:59,105 --> 01:14:01,358
Now, come on boys' attack!
1250
01:14:01,441 --> 01:14:04,527
But you are my kind
and beloved master.
1251
01:14:04,611 --> 01:14:06,738
I can't.
1252
01:14:09,282 --> 01:14:11,576
But I can.
1253
01:14:11,660 --> 01:14:13,703
[thumping]
1254
01:14:13,787 --> 01:14:18,083
Man's Best Friend,
I didn't like it.
It was extremely violent.
1255
01:14:18,166 --> 01:14:19,584
[grunts]
1256
01:14:20,877 --> 01:14:22,629
[thumps]
1257
01:14:22,712 --> 01:14:24,255
No!
1258
01:14:26,216 --> 01:14:28,009
[groans]
1259
01:14:28,093 --> 01:14:29,761
[swooshes]
1260
01:14:29,844 --> 01:14:35,558
[squelching]
1261
01:14:36,434 --> 01:14:37,310
[thumps]
1262
01:14:39,145 --> 01:14:42,023
[shivers]
1263
01:14:42,107 --> 01:14:43,316
[plops]
1264
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:44,275
[squelches]
1265
01:14:46,444 --> 01:14:50,240
- It's discipline
that begets love.
- Ouch!
1266
01:14:50,323 --> 01:14:53,118
Nickelodeon is making an
investment in kids' programming.
1267
01:14:53,201 --> 01:14:54,703
[grunting]
1268
01:14:54,786 --> 01:14:56,621
You must learn your place.
1269
01:14:57,831 --> 01:14:59,416
[groans]
1270
01:14:59,499 --> 01:15:01,334
And that's to say,
when we saw it,
I was just like...
1271
01:15:01,418 --> 01:15:04,546
I mean, it is up there
with Samuel Beckett,
1272
01:15:04,629 --> 01:15:07,465
it's one of the best things
ever made but it's not for kids.
1273
01:15:07,549 --> 01:15:10,552
[ominous music playing]
1274
01:15:10,635 --> 01:15:14,764
[John] The executives
at Nickelodeon thought
George is me.
1275
01:15:15,807 --> 01:15:17,392
This is absolutely not.
1276
01:15:17,475 --> 01:15:19,394
He thinks he's doing you good.
1277
01:15:19,477 --> 01:15:23,898
[clears throat]
Today's lesson is discipline.
1278
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:30,238
Now in order
to learn discipline,
you must learn to misbehave.
1279
01:15:34,534 --> 01:15:36,327
Now you see this over here?
1280
01:15:36,411 --> 01:15:38,371
This is a couch.
1281
01:15:38,455 --> 01:15:39,456
Now a couch...
1282
01:15:39,539 --> 01:15:41,958
[John] After he tells them
don't get on the couch, he says,
1283
01:15:42,042 --> 01:15:44,210
"Well, what are you waiting
for get up on the couch?"
1284
01:15:44,294 --> 01:15:49,507
Come on, make me mad.
Make me mad
or I'm going to be really mad.
1285
01:15:49,632 --> 01:15:51,843
[whimpers]
1286
01:15:51,926 --> 01:15:53,762
[jarring indication]
1287
01:15:53,845 --> 01:15:55,513
[squeaks]
1288
01:15:55,638 --> 01:15:58,391
What did I tell you
about sitting on my couch?
1289
01:15:58,475 --> 01:16:00,060
[gasps]
1290
01:16:00,143 --> 01:16:01,978
- Are you afraid?
- [John] It's twisted logic.
1291
01:16:02,062 --> 01:16:03,813
It's... it's logic
of authority figures.
1292
01:16:05,023 --> 01:16:06,191
It's my dad.
1293
01:16:07,150 --> 01:16:10,195
[somber music playing]
1294
01:16:13,114 --> 01:16:17,786
George Liquor is the
first character that ever just
popped into my head instantly
1295
01:16:17,869 --> 01:16:19,996
and I knew almost everything
about him.
1296
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:25,293
He's a moral god-fearing man
who believes in being tough.
1297
01:16:25,376 --> 01:16:29,172
Tough love that's what it is,
it's tough love.
1298
01:16:29,255 --> 01:16:32,550
That's a good boy.
1299
01:16:32,634 --> 01:16:36,179
It's discipline
that begets love.
1300
01:16:36,262 --> 01:16:41,226
[John] In the cartoon,
you take real-life emotions
and you exaggerate them.
1301
01:16:43,394 --> 01:16:46,773
I identify with almost
all the characters
1302
01:16:46,856 --> 01:16:51,361
and I try to put something
into them that I feel myself.
1303
01:16:51,444 --> 01:16:54,072
George Liquor,
I don't identify with
personally,
1304
01:16:56,116 --> 01:17:01,454
but I identify with having
to, uh, yield to authority.
1305
01:17:01,538 --> 01:17:05,291
[sad music playing]
1306
01:17:05,375 --> 01:17:10,964
He called me to give me feedback
on my notes
that I was giving him
1307
01:17:11,047 --> 01:17:14,926
and he said, um,
that I could go fuck myself.
1308
01:17:15,885 --> 01:17:18,805
That he wasn't
gonna take notes anymore.
1309
01:17:18,888 --> 01:17:24,435
That he made the network
and he is the star.
1310
01:17:26,437 --> 01:17:30,692
[Bob Camp] He sent a note to the
network saying, "I can no longer
be held responsible
1311
01:17:30,775 --> 01:17:32,777
for budgets or deadlines,
sorry."
1312
01:17:32,861 --> 01:17:35,238
When I read that
I was like, "Oh, my God!"
1313
01:17:35,321 --> 01:17:39,826
And I got the biggest marker
I had and I drew a giant pair
of balls on his door
1314
01:17:39,909 --> 01:17:42,370
because like, clearly, he had
the biggest ones in Hollywood.
1315
01:17:44,581 --> 01:17:49,085
[Vanessa] We failed
at working together after that.
It just failed.
1316
01:17:49,169 --> 01:17:52,964
You know, "I'm going to do
whatever I want to do
1317
01:17:53,047 --> 01:17:56,217
and it's going to cost you
whatever it costs."
1318
01:17:56,301 --> 01:18:01,514
And as an executive
for a company that, you know,
I was beholden to,
1319
01:18:03,558 --> 01:18:06,060
it didn't work that...
It doesn't work that way.
1320
01:18:06,144 --> 01:18:08,771
[somber music playing]
1321
01:18:08,855 --> 01:18:13,318
And I just walked down the hall
and tell Gerry Laybourne
1322
01:18:13,401 --> 01:18:17,238
that I had
an out-of-control train
1323
01:18:17,322 --> 01:18:20,867
and that I had an episode
I couldn't air.
1324
01:18:20,950 --> 01:18:25,455
And I have, you know,
outlaw artists on Ren & Stimpy
1325
01:18:25,538 --> 01:18:28,791
which I loved but it was hard.
1326
01:18:35,632 --> 01:18:38,384
They approached me
and they said, "Look,
we want you to finish the show."
1327
01:18:39,636 --> 01:18:45,808
People within my studio,
they were plotting behind Spumco
1328
01:18:45,892 --> 01:18:50,521
to, uh, take...
Start a new studio
and take it over.
1329
01:18:51,397 --> 01:18:54,651
The network was talking to me
about it and saying, you know,
1330
01:18:54,734 --> 01:18:57,362
we don't know if we're gonna
have to fire John or not.
1331
01:18:57,445 --> 01:19:00,198
We're gonna have to close the
studio and I'm trying to talk
him out of it and everything.
1332
01:19:00,281 --> 01:19:03,701
[Richard] Bob was smelling blood
and, uh, he's like,
1333
01:19:03,826 --> 01:19:06,496
"Yeah, fuck John, you know,
he's abandoned his duties.
1334
01:19:06,579 --> 01:19:08,289
Dereliction of duty, you know."
1335
01:19:08,373 --> 01:19:10,375
When, you know,
we do it without him.
1336
01:19:10,458 --> 01:19:13,628
You know, he started talking
in that... that way.
1337
01:19:13,711 --> 01:19:16,631
[John] Nickelodeon,
behind my back, would tell them,
1338
01:19:16,714 --> 01:19:19,050
"You're the backbone
of the show, you're the brains.
1339
01:19:19,133 --> 01:19:22,428
We don't need John.
And we'll triple your salary."
1340
01:19:22,512 --> 01:19:27,976
[man 23] Everybody was angry
and I... I told them
that I had talked to John.
1341
01:19:28,059 --> 01:19:32,146
I was shocked. I said,
"If you do this,
you're gonna be right back
1342
01:19:32,230 --> 01:19:35,400
to where you were before Spumco
1343
01:19:36,401 --> 01:19:41,030
where you have no creative say
and you're screwing all
the people who built this up."
1344
01:19:42,156 --> 01:19:44,826
But they went because
they thought of the glory.
1345
01:19:44,909 --> 01:19:49,330
Well, boy, now I'll be
the big cheese,
even though, I'd made everybody.
1346
01:19:49,414 --> 01:19:52,750
All the top people big cheeses,
but not big enough.
1347
01:19:52,875 --> 01:19:57,547
[somber music playing]
1348
01:20:01,050 --> 01:20:03,136
[Vanessa] I remember
the final conversation with him.
1349
01:20:03,219 --> 01:20:06,264
I mean, he was just like,
"Please, you know,
don't do this."
1350
01:20:06,347 --> 01:20:10,101
And I said, I have...
I... I can't not do this.
1351
01:20:10,184 --> 01:20:11,853
We have to...
We have to do this.
1352
01:20:11,936 --> 01:20:13,896
You're the one who created it.
1353
01:20:13,980 --> 01:20:16,316
You created this mess,
we didn't.
1354
01:20:16,399 --> 01:20:22,572
And he denied it,
but there was no choice.
1355
01:20:24,073 --> 01:20:27,160
[scrapes]
1356
01:20:27,243 --> 01:20:30,121
[sad music playing]
1357
01:20:31,914 --> 01:20:34,042
[scrapes]
1358
01:20:39,380 --> 01:20:44,844
Yeah, actually he called me.
Yeah, and he said, "Guess what?
I've been fired."
1359
01:20:45,762 --> 01:20:49,974
And...
and he actually said this.
"I'm actually kind of relieved."
1360
01:20:50,058 --> 01:20:53,353
[sad music playing]
1361
01:20:55,646 --> 01:20:58,358
It was really sad. I was crying.
1362
01:20:58,441 --> 01:21:00,026
John was almost crying.
1363
01:21:00,109 --> 01:21:02,820
We gathered everybody
into one big room
1364
01:21:02,904 --> 01:21:06,199
and said we... we have to give
you guys two weeks' notice.
1365
01:21:06,282 --> 01:21:09,077
We don't have any more money,
they're not paying us anymore,
1366
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:11,454
so, it was... it was horrible.
1367
01:21:12,997 --> 01:21:16,042
[somber music playing]
1368
01:21:21,047 --> 01:21:25,218
The hardest thing really was
just the fact that we were
having so much fun
1369
01:21:25,301 --> 01:21:29,639
and doing such great work
that it was a real shame
that it had to stop.
1370
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,518
The artists had to make
a decision about stay with John
1371
01:21:33,601 --> 01:21:38,272
or come with me and Nickelodeon
and produce at Games Production.
1372
01:21:39,690 --> 01:21:44,862
We created a new studio,
in about three weeks, we put...
Put it together.
1373
01:21:44,987 --> 01:21:48,699
[Richard] And it was just Bob
saying, "You know,
you have a job if you want it."
1374
01:21:48,783 --> 01:21:50,868
You know, he would say
to a lot of people.
1375
01:21:50,993 --> 01:21:56,040
I said, "You know, Bob, I'm
not... I'm not going to Games."
1376
01:21:56,124 --> 01:22:00,044
And he says, "What?
Traitor. Fucking traitor."
1377
01:22:00,128 --> 01:22:02,255
You know, just all in my face,
spitting mad, you know.
1378
01:22:02,338 --> 01:22:05,675
And I'm like...
And then Vincent, you know,
was like, "Whoa..."
1379
01:22:05,758 --> 01:22:07,760
And he goes...
"I am not going either."
He goes, "What?"
1380
01:22:10,388 --> 01:22:11,931
[Bob Camp] It was devastating.
It was horrible.
1381
01:22:12,807 --> 01:22:17,311
And I knew that it would make me
look bad in some ways,
1382
01:22:17,395 --> 01:22:20,648
but I knew I had to do it,
you know, because otherwise,
the show would die,
1383
01:22:20,731 --> 01:22:23,901
or worse, they would give it to
someone who would candy coat it
1384
01:22:24,026 --> 01:22:26,446
and make it into something that
wasn't what it should have been.
1385
01:22:28,948 --> 01:22:34,495
John and I were the best
of friends and... and I haven't
seen him since that day in 1992
1386
01:22:34,579 --> 01:22:36,581
and I don't know
if I ever will again.
1387
01:22:39,667 --> 01:22:41,919
[John] You know, I was burnt.
Who wouldn't be burnt?
1388
01:22:42,003 --> 01:22:44,172
You build something
over years and years
1389
01:22:44,255 --> 01:22:47,508
and it's taken away overnight
for somebody else
to build something.
1390
01:22:48,551 --> 01:22:51,929
These are characters
that you developed for years
that you loved.
1391
01:22:52,054 --> 01:22:53,598
You're losing your kids,
basically.
1392
01:22:53,681 --> 01:22:59,187
[sad music playing]
1393
01:23:16,204 --> 01:23:21,042
[Vanessa] It broke my heart.
I loved the characters.
They were my babies.
1394
01:23:21,125 --> 01:23:26,380
It just was a car accident for
me and it... it... I struggled.
1395
01:23:26,464 --> 01:23:27,840
I really, really struggled.
1396
01:23:30,009 --> 01:23:35,056
[Jim Ballantine] We really did
try to make the most we could
out of a very unhappy situation,
1397
01:23:35,139 --> 01:23:37,975
but, you know,
we did get death threats.
1398
01:23:38,059 --> 01:23:40,269
I mean we had to put
surveillance up.
1399
01:23:41,979 --> 01:23:47,568
They sent this card
with this bag
over this German Shepherd's head
1400
01:23:47,652 --> 01:23:49,695
with a hole in the bag
1401
01:23:49,779 --> 01:23:56,369
and its snout coming out
and a gun down
the German Shepherd's mouth
1402
01:23:56,452 --> 01:23:59,372
and it said,
"You're gonna die bitch!"
1403
01:24:00,873 --> 01:24:03,167
And that was one of many.
1404
01:24:05,336 --> 01:24:06,963
[interviewer]
Is there anything you would
have done differently?
1405
01:24:08,130 --> 01:24:09,882
We're back to that one.
1406
01:24:09,966 --> 01:24:10,841
[sniffles]
1407
01:24:12,843 --> 01:24:14,845
That's an impossible question
to answer.
1408
01:24:14,929 --> 01:24:16,514
- [interviewer] No, it's not.
- Yeah, it is.
1409
01:24:16,597 --> 01:24:17,473
[gulps]
1410
01:24:18,933 --> 01:24:22,937
There's nothing I could have
done about how it turned out.
1411
01:24:23,020 --> 01:24:24,397
It was fate or something.
1412
01:24:26,065 --> 01:24:29,360
It's like, I would, you know,
if I was gonna change something
I'd say,
1413
01:24:29,443 --> 01:24:31,028
"Let's not do 20 episodes."
1414
01:24:32,113 --> 01:24:35,491
[TV static noise]
1415
01:24:35,575 --> 01:24:38,369
That's not my Ren.
1416
01:24:38,452 --> 01:24:42,290
Not my Ren. No...
1417
01:24:45,042 --> 01:24:47,295
[Vanessa] Yeah, it's funny
when people say,
1418
01:24:47,378 --> 01:24:51,716
"Oh, you stole Ren & Stimpy
from John Kricfalusi
or the network stole.
1419
01:24:51,799 --> 01:24:54,760
Well, the network owned
the copyright.
1420
01:24:54,844 --> 01:24:57,930
He didn't bring
Ren & Stimpy to us.
1421
01:24:58,014 --> 01:25:01,434
I picked Ren & Stimpy
out of one of his properties.
1422
01:25:01,517 --> 01:25:05,146
This idea
that he brought us a show
1423
01:25:05,229 --> 01:25:10,943
and, you know, we took advantage
of him and took it away, it's
just not that... It's not true.
1424
01:25:11,027 --> 01:25:16,449
He didn't pitch us a show
called Ren & Stimpy
until we developed it with him.
1425
01:25:16,532 --> 01:25:21,662
And the one thing
that he wanted back, like,
his fight at the end, you know,
1426
01:25:21,746 --> 01:25:25,374
give me the character
George Liquor back."
1427
01:25:25,458 --> 01:25:27,585
I'm like, "Take it."
1428
01:25:27,668 --> 01:25:31,756
The last thing we want
is that character.
It's a horrible character.
1429
01:25:31,839 --> 01:25:36,427
It's abusive, bully, horrible,
insane character.
1430
01:25:36,510 --> 01:25:39,680
[ominous music playing]
1431
01:25:55,655 --> 01:26:00,368
You know, later I left,
so it was just unbridled,
left unchecked John.
1432
01:26:00,451 --> 01:26:05,498
[eerie music playing]
1433
01:27:03,723 --> 01:27:05,725
I mean, there's a reason
why there's a difference
1434
01:27:05,808 --> 01:27:10,271
from the original Ren & Stimpy
to Ren & Stimpy Adult Party.
1435
01:27:10,354 --> 01:27:13,941
It's because he lost
a lot of the people
1436
01:27:14,024 --> 01:27:19,613
that gave those characters heart
and feeling and appeal.
1437
01:27:22,408 --> 01:27:28,581
After losing the show
and losing that expression
and I wasn't there,
1438
01:27:28,664 --> 01:27:32,418
and I lost all contact
with them, but I think,
in real life, you know,
1439
01:27:32,501 --> 01:27:34,670
that's when his behavior
got really bad.
1440
01:27:36,547 --> 01:27:40,217
[eerie music playing]
1441
01:27:40,301 --> 01:27:43,554
I had always imagined what
it would be like to meet him
1442
01:27:43,637 --> 01:27:45,389
because I wanted to work
for him so badly.
1443
01:27:48,476 --> 01:27:51,228
[John]
To the girls that were in charge
of the library and the fan club,
1444
01:27:51,312 --> 01:27:57,193
they brought me this big
thick binder from one particular
fan named Robyn Byrd.
1445
01:27:59,779 --> 01:28:04,408
I was amazed that somebody
16 years old could write so well
1446
01:28:04,492 --> 01:28:07,286
and could express
her emotions so clearly.
1447
01:28:08,537 --> 01:28:11,415
Some of the things
she conveyed was that she was
lonely and depressed
1448
01:28:11,499 --> 01:28:13,793
that nobody understood her.
1449
01:28:13,876 --> 01:28:16,420
She used to call me Mr. Faluci,
which was very cute.
1450
01:28:18,255 --> 01:28:24,220
She also sent a videotape
of her sitting on the floor in
her room talking to me directly.
1451
01:28:25,137 --> 01:28:26,138
That did it.
1452
01:28:26,222 --> 01:28:28,182
He responded to me.
1453
01:28:28,265 --> 01:28:32,102
I was... Had just turned 14
when I first heard back
from him.
1454
01:28:34,188 --> 01:28:38,734
I was falling in love
with her letters and I knew
that probably is not right,
1455
01:28:38,818 --> 01:28:42,696
but I was just so smitten by
her personality in her letters
1456
01:28:42,780 --> 01:28:46,283
and then when I watched the
videotape, it's like, "Holy cow!
1457
01:28:46,408 --> 01:28:48,035
This girl is amazing."
1458
01:28:48,118 --> 01:28:51,121
[thrilling music playing]
1459
01:28:52,998 --> 01:28:56,210
[Robyn] It had developed
into this weird
sort of romantic thing
1460
01:28:56,293 --> 01:28:58,462
over the time that I had
been talking to him.
1461
01:28:59,797 --> 01:29:06,887
[John] In some of her letters,
she would, uh, put double
entendres about sex and things.
1462
01:29:06,971 --> 01:29:11,809
[Robyn] This is the guy
who's been like saying, like,
dirty stuff to me for two years
1463
01:29:11,892 --> 01:29:14,353
and like talking to me on the
phone and only at late at night.
1464
01:29:17,565 --> 01:29:20,192
The first year of that,
really as a little kid,
1465
01:29:20,276 --> 01:29:22,278
when I was 14,
I was still a little kid.
1466
01:29:25,906 --> 01:29:30,661
And then her mom sent her
out for a summer
after I visited them
1467
01:29:31,954 --> 01:29:35,624
and, you know, she, uh, was an
intern at Spumco for a while.
1468
01:29:35,708 --> 01:29:39,753
And then, um, when I was 16,
I moved in with him.
1469
01:29:39,837 --> 01:29:42,882
[slow music playing]
1470
01:29:48,804 --> 01:29:50,598
I thought
I'm getting offered a job.
1471
01:29:50,681 --> 01:29:52,308
I'm getting offered
an internship.
1472
01:29:52,391 --> 01:29:54,018
I... There's someone
who can take care of me.
1473
01:29:54,101 --> 01:29:58,898
So, I... I just...
I went with it because it's...
1474
01:29:58,981 --> 01:30:03,277
It's what I had always wanted
and what I thought
I still wanted.
1475
01:30:08,198 --> 01:30:11,452
Well, she was too young
and I freely admit that.
1476
01:30:13,245 --> 01:30:15,164
It was a bad decision...
1477
01:30:19,668 --> 01:30:21,712
but she was so convincing.
1478
01:30:21,795 --> 01:30:24,840
[slow music playing]
1479
01:30:31,847 --> 01:30:37,019
[Robyn] My entire adolescence,
so, 14 to 21 was owned by him.
1480
01:30:42,066 --> 01:30:44,902
His work was so wrapped up
in his life.
1481
01:30:44,985 --> 01:30:47,029
That was his life,
so it was my life, too.
1482
01:30:47,112 --> 01:30:49,990
So, it was just like you lived
in the kingdom of John
1483
01:30:51,617 --> 01:30:55,037
and, you know, I still have
nightmares about him.
1484
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:58,832
[slow music playing]
1485
01:31:03,754 --> 01:31:05,714
I was isolated
from everyone I knew.
1486
01:31:05,798 --> 01:31:08,717
It was almost like there was
this mandate not to talk to me.
1487
01:31:08,801 --> 01:31:09,760
I was sad all the time.
1488
01:31:09,843 --> 01:31:11,845
He blamed me for that.
1489
01:31:11,929 --> 01:31:13,555
"I'm making you happy.
Why aren't you happy?"
1490
01:31:13,639 --> 01:31:15,808
[Inaudible] talk about women's
bodies all the time.
1491
01:31:15,891 --> 01:31:18,143
I would cry at work
and he would tell me
how inappropriate that was.
1492
01:31:18,227 --> 01:31:22,940
Indoctrination-type stuff,
Bertrand Russell's essays
about non-monogamy.
1493
01:31:23,023 --> 01:31:24,775
What are you trying to tell me?
1494
01:31:24,858 --> 01:31:28,112
You know he just really had
no response to actual feelings.
1495
01:31:28,195 --> 01:31:31,240
[slow music playing]
1496
01:31:33,283 --> 01:31:37,162
He's gross, he's weird,
he's eccentric, he's sick.
1497
01:31:43,711 --> 01:31:47,673
And there was a brief break
in there where I went and worked
at a couple other studios
1498
01:31:47,756 --> 01:31:50,467
because I just needed
to have my space
1499
01:31:50,592 --> 01:31:54,972
but I came back to him
and when I came back,
Katie Rice was there.
1500
01:31:55,055 --> 01:31:57,433
Hey' this is Katie Rice.
1501
01:31:57,516 --> 01:32:00,853
She is one of the young artists
I was telling you about
who sought me out
1502
01:32:00,936 --> 01:32:03,147
- because she grew up watching
Ren & Stimpy, right?
- Mm-Hm.
1503
01:32:03,230 --> 01:32:07,067
He had, literally, flown her out
like two days after I moved out
of his house.
1504
01:32:09,111 --> 01:32:11,947
He just started
hiring kids, you know,
1505
01:32:12,031 --> 01:32:15,409
because they're gonna have
that devotion to him.
1506
01:32:15,492 --> 01:32:19,163
Katie is the princess
of sexy girl artists.
1507
01:32:19,246 --> 01:32:21,749
[Robyn] I had matured a bit.
1508
01:32:21,832 --> 01:32:25,878
I could tell that, you know,
this stuff that has been going
on for the past five years
1509
01:32:25,961 --> 01:32:28,047
is not normal and so I left.
1510
01:32:33,302 --> 01:32:37,306
I ran and I thought
I can't go back to L.A.;
no one will hire me.
1511
01:32:37,389 --> 01:32:43,020
That... that 16-year-old me
that could do anything
was just... just squashed.
1512
01:32:44,313 --> 01:32:47,357
[ominous music playing]
1513
01:33:07,336 --> 01:33:08,879
[interviewer]
You read the article, I assume.
1514
01:33:10,714 --> 01:33:12,966
I read parts of it
and then I had to put it down.
1515
01:33:14,134 --> 01:33:15,636
[interviewer]
The parts that you...
1516
01:33:15,719 --> 01:33:18,222
See, I don't want to like
complain about...
1517
01:33:18,305 --> 01:33:21,934
I don't want to get into details
because then you have to drag
other people into it
1518
01:33:22,017 --> 01:33:25,729
and, you know,
it's just more people
getting mad at each other.
1519
01:33:26,605 --> 01:33:29,191
You know, I don't know
what he's been up to, lately,
1520
01:33:29,274 --> 01:33:33,320
except I have names of lots
of girls he's tried to get with
'cause they've talked to me.
1521
01:33:33,403 --> 01:33:37,032
[overlapping chatter]
1522
01:33:37,116 --> 01:33:41,161
Well, I've officially retired,
not exactly by choice,
1523
01:33:41,245 --> 01:33:45,290
I still have tons of ideas,
characters and things
I would love to explore.
1524
01:33:45,374 --> 01:33:47,126
So, all that's gone.
1525
01:33:47,209 --> 01:33:50,337
It's my own fault for not being
smarter or more responsible.
1526
01:33:53,340 --> 01:33:59,304
John didn't just turn into
this... John has, I think been
this person for a long time.
1527
01:33:59,388 --> 01:34:04,810
He would have us over to his
house for parties and he got
drunk enough, you know,
1528
01:34:04,893 --> 01:34:09,064
he would talk about young girls
being, you know, the hottest.
1529
01:34:09,148 --> 01:34:15,112
I talked to his most recent
assistant and she was...
she was crying and sad about it
1530
01:34:15,195 --> 01:34:17,239
and she's like,
"That's not the John I know.
1531
01:34:17,322 --> 01:34:20,284
Uh, he never...
Yeah, I mean, he would say
inappropriate things
1532
01:34:20,367 --> 01:34:22,494
because he's kind of
a man-child."
1533
01:34:22,578 --> 01:34:26,999
That whole male
locker-room thing, I didn't
take it seriously enough.
1534
01:34:27,082 --> 01:34:29,168
I'm making no excuses,
1535
01:34:29,251 --> 01:34:32,880
it's just like
it never occurred to me that a
guy would actually pursue that.
1536
01:34:34,131 --> 01:34:39,761
[Vanessa]
I think that his abusive nature
and his God kind of thing,
1537
01:34:39,845 --> 01:34:41,221
I just wasn't surprised.
1538
01:34:41,305 --> 01:34:43,640
I was also really,
extremely angry.
1539
01:34:43,724 --> 01:34:50,939
It hurt... It hurt that he used,
um, Ren & Stimpy that way
1540
01:34:51,023 --> 01:34:52,816
to, um...
1541
01:34:55,152 --> 01:34:59,448
lure girls into his fold.
1542
01:34:59,531 --> 01:35:00,782
It was upsetting.
1543
01:35:03,076 --> 01:35:03,952
Um...
1544
01:35:05,662 --> 01:35:07,289
So, that made me sad.
1545
01:35:10,292 --> 01:35:13,795
I got a message this morning
that made me almost cry
because of the way she put it.
1546
01:35:13,879 --> 01:35:17,966
She was like,
"You are, um, protecting
all of the little girls
1547
01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:20,552
who never put
their crayons away."
1548
01:35:20,636 --> 01:35:23,013
[interviewer] She came out.
She said she's hurt.
1549
01:35:23,096 --> 01:35:27,392
It was very... She felt like
she was taken advantage of.
1550
01:35:27,476 --> 01:35:32,397
Knowing that is how she felt,
what would you say to her?
1551
01:35:32,481 --> 01:35:34,816
I would... I would definitely
apologize to her
1552
01:35:34,900 --> 01:35:39,154
and... and explain that I didn't
see things the same way
that she did and I should have.
1553
01:35:39,238 --> 01:35:44,701
I would admit
to what I shouldn't have done
that I did do.
1554
01:35:44,826 --> 01:35:47,955
Explain how guilty I feel
about it,
especially when she says now
1555
01:35:48,038 --> 01:35:49,957
how... how hurt she is by it.
1556
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,209
I really feel awful about that.
1557
01:35:52,292 --> 01:35:58,632
And I'd ask her to forgive me
and try to explain that,
you know,
1558
01:35:58,715 --> 01:36:02,719
I always had ultimately
her best interests.
1559
01:36:02,803 --> 01:36:06,723
What I... From my point of view
were her best interests at heart
1560
01:36:06,848 --> 01:36:08,850
and I never wanted to lose
friendship with her.
1561
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:16,024
[interviewer]
I think with that two words,
"I'm sorry" would that be of...
1562
01:36:16,108 --> 01:36:17,234
Well, didn't I say that?
1563
01:36:19,569 --> 01:36:21,613
I would definitely tell Robyn
I'm sorry.
1564
01:36:21,697 --> 01:36:27,703
Really, really sorry,
because I didn't realize
how affected she was
1565
01:36:27,786 --> 01:36:29,579
until that article came out.
1566
01:36:29,663 --> 01:36:32,249
And it just made me feel
complete shame and guilt
1567
01:36:32,332 --> 01:36:35,794
and felt like the lowest
creature on Earth.
1568
01:36:36,712 --> 01:36:41,883
So, I really would love tell...
I'd love to tell Robyn
in person.
1569
01:36:41,967 --> 01:36:44,845
If she watches this,
give me a call, please.
1570
01:36:46,972 --> 01:36:50,017
[somber music playing]
1571
01:36:58,317 --> 01:37:02,195
[Richard]
That created by moniker,
you know, is John's legacy,
1572
01:37:03,572 --> 01:37:06,950
but, in the end,
it's what stains the show.
1573
01:37:08,702 --> 01:37:12,622
Oh, Vincent said,
"Now the characters are covered
in shit paint," you know,
1574
01:37:12,706 --> 01:37:14,291
and that's heartbreaking.
1575
01:37:18,962 --> 01:37:23,675
[Chris Reccardi] Basically,
this show's a bastard child and
it's fucking always gonna be.
1576
01:37:23,759 --> 01:37:28,889
And it's still, you know,
right up to now, it's easy
to blame John for that.
1577
01:37:28,972 --> 01:37:32,100
It's like, well, clearly,
you know, nobody else
worked harder to fuck it up
1578
01:37:32,184 --> 01:37:35,103
and than... than this guy
despite what he says, you know.
1579
01:37:35,187 --> 01:37:38,732
[somber music playing]
1580
01:37:57,459 --> 01:38:02,172
[Robyn] People have sent me
pictures of their comics in the
garbage can and stuff like that
1581
01:38:02,255 --> 01:38:03,924
and I'm not gonna tell them
not to do that.
1582
01:38:04,925 --> 01:38:06,968
But if someone is really
conflicted about it,
1583
01:38:07,052 --> 01:38:09,846
then I would say, "Look,
just don't think about him.
1584
01:38:09,971 --> 01:38:11,848
Think about how you were happy
when you were a kid
1585
01:38:11,973 --> 01:38:15,018
and you would watch Ren
& Stimpy, draw Ren & Stimpy."
1586
01:38:16,144 --> 01:38:18,397
I don't really find anything
good in it for me anymore,
1587
01:38:18,480 --> 01:38:22,943
but I don't see why someone
would have to pull out
a part of their childhood
1588
01:38:23,026 --> 01:38:24,778
just because of what's in him.
1589
01:38:24,861 --> 01:38:27,906
[sad music playing]
1590
01:38:39,918 --> 01:38:42,045
The show is the show
1591
01:38:42,129 --> 01:38:46,341
and there were a lot
of creative people
that, uh, contributed to it,
1592
01:38:46,425 --> 01:38:48,135
so, whether you like me
or hate me,
1593
01:38:49,386 --> 01:38:53,223
I would hope that that wouldn't
color your enjoyment of the show
1594
01:38:53,306 --> 01:38:55,267
because, you know,
there's Bob Camp and Jim Smith
1595
01:38:55,350 --> 01:38:57,477
and Lynne Naylor
and Chris Reccardi
1596
01:38:57,561 --> 01:39:00,647
and on and on,
all these talented people
that contributed to the show.
1597
01:39:02,983 --> 01:39:07,154
[Richard] You know, people
don't know all the different
people that came together
1598
01:39:07,237 --> 01:39:12,576
to create created by and that's
how you get a SpongeBob.
1599
01:39:12,659 --> 01:39:14,536
That's how you get a South Park.
1600
01:39:14,619 --> 01:39:17,873
That's how you get everything
that followed, you know,
1601
01:39:17,956 --> 01:39:23,128
none of that would have happened
without Ren & Stimpy
and that created by cart.
1602
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:29,384
The current day examples
of shows that I think were
influenced by Ren & Stimpy
1603
01:39:29,468 --> 01:39:31,136
are all of the shows.
1604
01:39:35,140 --> 01:39:38,768
[David Silverman] It's ongoing
impact is the way it affected
1605
01:39:38,852 --> 01:39:43,482
and changed the way people
who worked on cartoons,
looked at cartoons,
1606
01:39:43,565 --> 01:39:45,692
and you know did cartoons
afterwards.
1607
01:39:45,775 --> 01:39:51,031
It's all there,
you know, from character design,
to expressions, to timing,
1608
01:39:51,114 --> 01:39:53,825
you know,
it influenced a great deal.
1609
01:39:54,826 --> 01:40:02,125
[David] It has much validity
as a Eugene O'Neill play
as it does a Daffy Duck cartoon.
1610
01:40:02,209 --> 01:40:04,419
It's all about addressing
the human condition.
1611
01:40:04,503 --> 01:40:08,215
[somber music playing]
1612
01:40:16,139 --> 01:40:19,309
[Chris Reccardi] And I think
a lot of us somehow do feel
1613
01:40:19,392 --> 01:40:22,354
a sense of gratitude
towards John, you know.
1614
01:40:22,437 --> 01:40:25,273
This group of people,
this thing, you know,
1615
01:40:25,357 --> 01:40:27,692
I would never take
that credit away from him.
1616
01:40:28,693 --> 01:40:33,156
Some of my favorite artists and
musicians and actors, comedians,
1617
01:40:33,240 --> 01:40:38,828
some of the most talented ones
just tend to be the ones
that suffer the most
1618
01:40:38,912 --> 01:40:41,623
in terms of interfacing
with reality.
1619
01:40:41,706 --> 01:40:45,293
[sad music playing]
1620
01:40:53,552 --> 01:40:57,430
[Robyn] It's not necessary
for someone to be
like that to create great art.
1621
01:40:59,307 --> 01:41:02,602
You can have that going on
in your head and you can use
it to make art.
1622
01:41:02,686 --> 01:41:05,272
In fact, you can work
through it with art.
1623
01:41:05,355 --> 01:41:08,149
That's what a lot of artists do
with their pain.
1624
01:41:08,233 --> 01:41:12,195
[somber music playing]
1625
01:41:16,491 --> 01:41:19,494
Pain does create great art.
I do believe that but, um,
1626
01:41:21,204 --> 01:41:25,250
you don't have
to keep inflicting pain
to create great art.
1627
01:41:28,753 --> 01:41:31,506
[John] You know,
when you make something
that people really like,
1628
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:34,301
they sort of expect you
to... to be perfect.
1629
01:41:35,844 --> 01:41:40,640
And once people know you
for real, a little of the magic
is worn off.
1630
01:41:40,724 --> 01:41:43,059
"Oh, he's a human
like everybody else."
1631
01:41:43,184 --> 01:41:44,060
[sniffles]
1632
01:41:46,313 --> 01:41:49,357
[somber music playing]
1633
01:42:08,418 --> 01:42:09,836
[TV static noise]
1634
01:42:23,850 --> 01:42:26,853
[classical music playing]