1 00:00:08,375 --> 00:00:11,011 and this is "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 2 00:00:14,914 --> 00:00:18,118 It was the little girl who learned it first, 3 00:00:18,151 --> 00:00:19,419 the 12 year old, 4 00:00:19,452 --> 00:00:21,821 she who was there at the beginning 5 00:00:21,855 --> 00:00:24,257 when the family secret was born. 6 00:00:27,427 --> 00:00:29,529 - Why did it get started? 7 00:00:32,365 --> 00:00:34,868 - Why did she keep it so long... 8 00:00:34,901 --> 00:00:38,705 - She was all I had. - While it did its evil work? 9 00:00:38,738 --> 00:00:40,240 - To think that he had walked away-- 10 00:00:40,273 --> 00:00:44,944 We couldn't even stand it. - What would that secret do? 11 00:00:44,978 --> 00:00:48,114 - Everybody has a secret or two, but this? 12 00:00:48,148 --> 00:00:56,756 ** 13 00:00:56,790 --> 00:01:00,326 - Hello, and welcome to "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,429 College student Sandy Ford 15 00:01:02,462 --> 00:01:05,598 called her dad, Lloyd, every week. 16 00:01:05,632 --> 00:01:08,301 When her parents divorced, Lloyd remarried, 17 00:01:08,335 --> 00:01:10,704 but Sandy stayed close with her father, 18 00:01:10,737 --> 00:01:13,139 until he disappeared. 19 00:01:13,173 --> 00:01:15,075 Sandy did not know what happened, 20 00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:16,276 but others did. 21 00:01:16,309 --> 00:01:18,078 Now what's that saying? 22 00:01:18,111 --> 00:01:20,413 Two people can keep a secret, 23 00:01:20,447 --> 00:01:23,883 but only if one of them is dead. 24 00:01:23,917 --> 00:01:25,518 Here's Keith Morrison with... 25 00:01:30,824 --> 00:01:32,726 - Ah, yes, families. 26 00:01:32,759 --> 00:01:34,494 I suppose you could say this one, 27 00:01:34,527 --> 00:01:36,796 the family, if not the secret, 28 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:38,965 got started in the middle of nowhere, 29 00:01:38,998 --> 00:01:40,667 which is what they like to call it 30 00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:43,770 here in Ainsworth, Nebraska. 31 00:01:43,803 --> 00:01:45,605 It wasn't so surprising, perhaps, 32 00:01:45,638 --> 00:01:48,341 that when young Lloyd Ford was done with school, 33 00:01:48,375 --> 00:01:50,944 he'd gone out, joined the Navy, 34 00:01:50,977 --> 00:01:54,280 sailed off to see the wide world from an aircraft carrier, 35 00:01:54,314 --> 00:01:57,784 this man at the center of the secret. 36 00:01:57,817 --> 00:02:00,587 Sandy Burke is his eldest daughter. 37 00:02:00,620 --> 00:02:04,591 - My dad was just a fun guy. He was very fun loving. 38 00:02:04,624 --> 00:02:07,560 Um, he loved people. People loved him. 39 00:02:07,594 --> 00:02:09,963 People tended to gravitate towards my dad. 40 00:02:10,063 --> 00:02:12,132 - Especially women. 41 00:02:12,165 --> 00:02:14,601 That was not a secret. 42 00:02:14,634 --> 00:02:16,870 When Lloyd went back to little Ainsworth 43 00:02:16,903 --> 00:02:18,438 after his stint in the Navy, 44 00:02:18,471 --> 00:02:20,740 one of the hometown girls caught his eye 45 00:02:20,774 --> 00:02:22,142 at the County Fair. 46 00:02:22,175 --> 00:02:24,744 Before long, they were married, 47 00:02:24,778 --> 00:02:27,714 and that's how Sandy came along, 48 00:02:27,747 --> 00:02:30,984 and her little sister, Pamela, who loved her dad, 49 00:02:31,084 --> 00:02:33,586 but apparently wasn't the only one. 50 00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:36,222 - All of the women around here had huge crushes on him 51 00:02:36,256 --> 00:02:37,490 and his brother, 52 00:02:37,524 --> 00:02:41,461 and I've always heard he had to have a woman in his life. 53 00:02:41,494 --> 00:02:42,796 - And when Lloyd and his wife 54 00:02:42,829 --> 00:02:44,564 took their little family out West, 55 00:02:44,597 --> 00:02:48,902 it was, so they say, to get away from some other woman. 56 00:02:48,935 --> 00:02:51,571 Anyway, that's where little Tommy was born, 57 00:02:51,604 --> 00:02:54,207 and Lloyd learned to be a real family man. 58 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,677 - He loved fishing. He would take us fishing, 59 00:02:57,711 --> 00:03:00,080 and we'd just bring strings of fish home, 60 00:03:00,113 --> 00:03:02,148 or sometimes, we'd bring no fish home, but-- 61 00:03:02,182 --> 00:03:03,783 - We usually ate 'em for breakfast. 62 00:03:03,817 --> 00:03:07,620 - Yeah, we did. - And then, well, 63 00:03:07,654 --> 00:03:11,358 the kids are always the last to know what happened or why, 64 00:03:11,391 --> 00:03:14,494 but it wasn't long before their mom suddenly packed them up 65 00:03:14,527 --> 00:03:16,830 and headed back to Nebraska. 66 00:03:16,863 --> 00:03:18,565 - A lot of times, in divorces, 67 00:03:18,598 --> 00:03:20,300 a child will take one side or the other, 68 00:03:20,333 --> 00:03:22,502 and I took my mom's. 69 00:03:22,535 --> 00:03:24,571 - They loved him still, of course, 70 00:03:24,604 --> 00:03:28,875 even when he started courting a new woman, Judy, 71 00:03:28,908 --> 00:03:31,444 twice divorced, three kids of her own, 72 00:03:31,478 --> 00:03:34,180 including Kimberly, Judy's only daughter, 73 00:03:34,214 --> 00:03:38,251 who, all in all, was happier on those rare occasions 74 00:03:38,284 --> 00:03:41,087 when there was no man around her mother. 75 00:03:41,121 --> 00:03:44,891 - I personally liked it best when it was just... 76 00:03:44,924 --> 00:03:47,994 her, the boys, and I. 77 00:03:48,094 --> 00:03:50,397 No husband. 78 00:03:50,430 --> 00:03:53,266 'Cause her attention would focus. 79 00:03:53,299 --> 00:03:55,135 - You'd lose her. - Yeah. 80 00:03:55,168 --> 00:03:57,103 - When a new man came along, 81 00:03:57,103 --> 00:03:59,105 what was she like with that person? 82 00:03:59,139 --> 00:04:00,407 - They were it. 83 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,876 We still got fed and taken care of, 84 00:04:02,909 --> 00:04:05,345 and the norm, you know, 85 00:04:05,378 --> 00:04:08,515 but it was all about them. 86 00:04:08,548 --> 00:04:12,318 - And in 1973, it was all about Lloyd. 87 00:04:12,352 --> 00:04:15,555 They married, and then divorced, 88 00:04:15,588 --> 00:04:17,357 and then remarried, 89 00:04:17,390 --> 00:04:19,826 and tried to pretend a Brady Bunch life 90 00:04:19,859 --> 00:04:22,162 at this very house on Clark Street 91 00:04:22,195 --> 00:04:24,164 in Boise, Idaho. 92 00:04:24,197 --> 00:04:27,967 Lloyd drove long-haul trucks. Judy styled hair. 93 00:04:28,068 --> 00:04:31,071 They joined the Shriners, went bowling, 94 00:04:31,104 --> 00:04:33,139 planned fishing trips. 95 00:04:33,173 --> 00:04:35,275 Lloyd's youngest, Tommy, 96 00:04:35,308 --> 00:04:37,110 lived with him and his stepmom, 97 00:04:37,143 --> 00:04:39,612 but Pamela stayed with her mother in Nebraska 98 00:04:39,646 --> 00:04:41,514 and rarely visited. 99 00:04:41,548 --> 00:04:45,085 By 1980, Sandy was 20 and off at college, 100 00:04:45,085 --> 00:04:48,321 but still, as always, called Lloyd every week, 101 00:04:48,355 --> 00:04:52,192 until the day Judy answered the phone. 102 00:04:52,225 --> 00:04:54,194 - And when I first called, 103 00:04:54,227 --> 00:04:56,429 Judy told me he was away on business, 104 00:04:56,463 --> 00:04:58,765 so I called back a few days later, 105 00:04:58,798 --> 00:05:00,400 and she said, oh, no, he isn't home yet, 106 00:05:00,433 --> 00:05:03,169 and I thought, that's funny, 'cause he's usually only gone, 107 00:05:03,203 --> 00:05:05,538 like, two or three days, and he'll be back. 108 00:05:05,572 --> 00:05:10,276 And, uh, I called the next week, and he still wasn't home, 109 00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:11,311 and I called my mom, 110 00:05:11,344 --> 00:05:14,047 so I think that my mom called out to Judy, 111 00:05:14,047 --> 00:05:17,450 and she said, well, the truth was 112 00:05:17,484 --> 00:05:20,320 she thought that Lloyd had ran off with another woman, 113 00:05:20,353 --> 00:05:23,423 and she didn't think he was coming back. 114 00:05:23,456 --> 00:05:26,059 - Days went by, then weeks. 115 00:05:26,092 --> 00:05:28,061 No word from their dad. 116 00:05:28,094 --> 00:05:29,462 At the end of the school year, 117 00:05:29,496 --> 00:05:32,232 Tommy's stepmom sent him back to Nebraska 118 00:05:32,265 --> 00:05:34,067 to live with his birth family. 119 00:05:34,067 --> 00:05:35,235 - It was hard. 120 00:05:35,268 --> 00:05:40,407 I mean, my dad, for Tom and I especially, 121 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,575 he was everything to us. 122 00:05:42,609 --> 00:05:44,644 - And you thought he loved you. - He did. 123 00:05:44,678 --> 00:05:47,414 - And now it seemed, perhaps, he didn't even care. 124 00:05:47,447 --> 00:05:50,150 - You know, when we first heard, 125 00:05:50,183 --> 00:05:52,919 I think we really believed he'd be back. 126 00:05:52,952 --> 00:05:56,623 If he left Judy, he would be back to get us. 127 00:05:56,656 --> 00:06:00,193 - That summer, Lloyd's father hired a private investigator. 128 00:06:00,226 --> 00:06:03,630 - My grandfather would come in almost every week 129 00:06:03,663 --> 00:06:06,866 to give me updates on, you know, 130 00:06:06,900 --> 00:06:08,535 had we heard anything? 131 00:06:08,568 --> 00:06:10,637 The detective hadn't found anything. 132 00:06:10,670 --> 00:06:14,140 He was following leads, but nothing was coming up. 133 00:06:14,174 --> 00:06:16,543 - They heard stories. 134 00:06:16,576 --> 00:06:18,311 He moved to Michigan. 135 00:06:18,345 --> 00:06:21,214 He boarded a plane and never made his connection. 136 00:06:21,247 --> 00:06:24,050 Even a story that he was on Mount St. Helens 137 00:06:24,050 --> 00:06:25,885 when it erupted. 138 00:06:25,919 --> 00:06:29,189 Sandy and her sister, Pam, longed for answers, 139 00:06:29,222 --> 00:06:30,957 a phone call even, 140 00:06:31,057 --> 00:06:33,326 but there was nothing. 141 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,261 Where was their father? 142 00:06:35,295 --> 00:06:38,398 Whatever happened to Lloyd Ford? 143 00:06:38,431 --> 00:06:39,866 Here's a hint. 144 00:06:39,899 --> 00:06:42,802 Sandy didn't know the family secret, 145 00:06:42,836 --> 00:06:45,839 nor did Pam, but Kimberly did. 146 00:06:45,872 --> 00:06:49,976 She knew all about it, where Lloyd went and why, 147 00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:52,846 because she was there, 148 00:06:52,879 --> 00:06:54,781 but if she revealed it, 149 00:06:54,814 --> 00:06:57,751 would anyone even believe the chilling tale 150 00:06:57,784 --> 00:07:00,754 she'd carried and hidden for so long? 151 00:07:03,890 --> 00:07:05,458 - I spent my whole life 152 00:07:05,492 --> 00:07:08,661 waiting for the other shoe to drop, you know? 153 00:07:08,695 --> 00:07:11,064 - And here it was. 154 00:07:11,097 --> 00:07:14,534 - When "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered" continues. 155 00:07:18,070 --> 00:07:23,609 ** 156 00:07:24,443 --> 00:07:26,879 - The sad thing about a family secret 157 00:07:26,912 --> 00:07:30,449 is all the pain that's apt to trail behind. 158 00:07:30,482 --> 00:07:34,286 When Lloyd Ford dropped off his family radar back in 1980, 159 00:07:34,319 --> 00:07:37,156 left them all for another woman or some other life, 160 00:07:37,189 --> 00:07:38,891 whatever it was, 161 00:07:38,924 --> 00:07:40,826 the children of his first marriage 162 00:07:40,859 --> 00:07:43,762 felt utterly abandoned, devastated. 163 00:07:43,796 --> 00:07:45,764 - I mean, the ground you stand on 164 00:07:45,798 --> 00:07:47,366 doesn't seem stable anymore, 165 00:07:47,399 --> 00:07:49,468 because every single thing that we had built 166 00:07:49,501 --> 00:07:52,438 our trust and security in was gone. 167 00:07:52,471 --> 00:07:54,073 - These sisters couldn't know 168 00:07:54,106 --> 00:07:57,109 that the answer to their decades of questions 169 00:07:57,142 --> 00:07:59,645 might involve the complicated relationships 170 00:07:59,678 --> 00:08:01,413 in Lloyd's new family, 171 00:08:01,447 --> 00:08:04,249 particularly between a mother and daughter, 172 00:08:04,283 --> 00:08:06,552 between Judy and her daughter Kimberly, 173 00:08:06,585 --> 00:08:09,688 little Kim, nervous, needy, 174 00:08:09,722 --> 00:08:12,391 desperate to be perfect. 175 00:08:12,424 --> 00:08:15,094 How does a little girl 176 00:08:15,127 --> 00:08:17,663 attempt to be perfect for her mother? 177 00:08:17,696 --> 00:08:19,465 - She tries not to make her mad. 178 00:08:19,498 --> 00:08:21,533 You know? 179 00:08:21,567 --> 00:08:24,236 Do things that I know would make her happy. 180 00:08:24,269 --> 00:08:25,771 Clean the house. 181 00:08:25,804 --> 00:08:28,040 We all worked in the yard. 182 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,075 Everything had to be just so, 183 00:08:30,109 --> 00:08:33,045 so it looked nice when somebody came over, 184 00:08:33,045 --> 00:08:35,247 so it looked normal. 185 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,051 - And if it did, the love could be so good, 186 00:08:39,051 --> 00:08:41,220 so warm, enveloping, happy, 187 00:08:41,253 --> 00:08:44,690 if only the furies could be kept at bay. 188 00:08:44,723 --> 00:08:50,429 - You learned to read her moods? - Oh, yeah, really well. 189 00:08:50,462 --> 00:08:52,197 If she wasn't in a good mood, 190 00:08:52,231 --> 00:08:54,600 we stayed gone, out of the house. 191 00:08:54,633 --> 00:08:55,801 - Stayed out of her way. - Oh, yeah. 192 00:08:55,834 --> 00:08:58,070 - Because? - You didn't want to see her upset. 193 00:08:58,103 --> 00:09:02,508 - That, said Kim, was the woman her children knew so intimately, 194 00:09:02,541 --> 00:09:05,110 not like the Judy who presented herself 195 00:09:05,144 --> 00:09:08,147 one way or another to the outside world. 196 00:09:08,180 --> 00:09:12,017 - She was different for everybody. 197 00:09:12,017 --> 00:09:15,220 To a newcomer or her friends, 198 00:09:15,254 --> 00:09:18,190 she was a very loving, giving person. 199 00:09:18,223 --> 00:09:20,659 But what they didn't see was she would do 200 00:09:20,693 --> 00:09:23,095 whatever it took to get what she wanted. 201 00:09:23,128 --> 00:09:25,030 - You saw this happening when you were a little kid? 202 00:09:25,064 --> 00:09:28,133 - Sure. She knows in a certain situation 203 00:09:28,167 --> 00:09:30,135 what she needs to say. 204 00:09:30,169 --> 00:09:32,037 You know, "I should laugh here, 205 00:09:32,037 --> 00:09:35,307 "or, you know, maybe I should cry." 206 00:09:35,341 --> 00:09:37,943 - Watching this, said Kim, she knew very well 207 00:09:38,043 --> 00:09:40,846 that love, one moment to the next, 208 00:09:40,879 --> 00:09:44,350 could be given or withdrawn. 209 00:09:44,383 --> 00:09:47,619 - She was the one we feared. You did as you were told. 210 00:09:47,653 --> 00:09:49,555 - If she wanted you to do something, 211 00:09:49,588 --> 00:09:52,791 and you just kind of, uh, didn't do it? 212 00:09:52,825 --> 00:09:56,061 - Oh, no, we never did that. 213 00:09:56,061 --> 00:09:57,830 We never-- 214 00:09:57,863 --> 00:10:01,133 You just didn't want to rock the boat, you know? 215 00:10:01,166 --> 00:10:03,802 I was so afraid she was gonna leave. 216 00:10:03,836 --> 00:10:06,705 - And thus, it was abandonment Kim feared 217 00:10:06,739 --> 00:10:09,208 when her mother brought men home. 218 00:10:09,241 --> 00:10:11,143 - She was all I had. 219 00:10:11,176 --> 00:10:12,811 - 'Cause it was changing all the time, 220 00:10:12,845 --> 00:10:15,314 and all these men would come into her lives, 221 00:10:15,347 --> 00:10:18,884 your life, and then go again. 222 00:10:18,917 --> 00:10:21,220 You had her. - Right. 223 00:10:21,253 --> 00:10:23,522 - Anyway, Judy stayed put. 224 00:10:23,555 --> 00:10:26,825 It was Lloyd who would not be sticking around. 225 00:10:26,859 --> 00:10:29,094 After her husband seemed to disappear 226 00:10:29,128 --> 00:10:32,464 off the face of the Earth, Judy filed for divorce. 227 00:10:32,498 --> 00:10:34,733 And when Lloyd didn't show up at the hearing, 228 00:10:34,767 --> 00:10:36,635 Judy got everything. 229 00:10:36,669 --> 00:10:39,038 Kim remembers a rainy afternoon 230 00:10:39,071 --> 00:10:42,374 when her mother pawned off their wedding rings. 231 00:10:42,408 --> 00:10:46,645 She remarried, a man named Tom Gough. 232 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,847 Life went on. 233 00:10:48,881 --> 00:10:51,650 A quarter century passed. 234 00:10:51,684 --> 00:10:54,219 By 2007, Kim was 40, 235 00:10:54,253 --> 00:10:57,856 the single mother of two teenagers of her own, 236 00:10:57,890 --> 00:11:01,794 still held in her own mother's emotional web, 237 00:11:01,827 --> 00:11:05,497 but unspoken guilt increasingly clouded her mood, 238 00:11:05,531 --> 00:11:08,067 even at work. 239 00:11:08,067 --> 00:11:10,669 This was her boss, Gary Ziegler. 240 00:11:10,703 --> 00:11:12,938 What did she seem like to you? 241 00:11:12,971 --> 00:11:15,908 - It always seemed like she was, uh, 242 00:11:15,941 --> 00:11:19,345 carrying something deep down inside her, 243 00:11:19,378 --> 00:11:20,679 some kind of baggage. 244 00:11:20,713 --> 00:11:23,315 Don't-- You know, couldn't put my finger on it for a long time. 245 00:11:23,349 --> 00:11:25,517 - Gary had-- What would you call it? 246 00:11:25,551 --> 00:11:28,153 Antenna for these things. 247 00:11:28,187 --> 00:11:31,957 - He had called me to come have a cup of coffee with him, 248 00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:35,094 and he could read me really well, 249 00:11:35,094 --> 00:11:36,662 and, uh, he's like, "What's wrong?" 250 00:11:36,695 --> 00:11:37,830 And I fell apart. 251 00:11:37,863 --> 00:11:40,366 - Told him the whole thing? - Told him everything. 252 00:11:40,399 --> 00:11:42,668 - And that's how the family secret, 253 00:11:42,701 --> 00:11:44,403 contained for more than 20 years, 254 00:11:44,436 --> 00:11:48,540 was leaked for the first time to an outsider 255 00:11:48,574 --> 00:11:53,479 who listened in something like disbelief. 256 00:11:53,512 --> 00:11:57,850 - Everybody has a secret or two, but this? 257 00:11:57,883 --> 00:12:00,853 I deliberated for days before telling anybody. 258 00:12:00,886 --> 00:12:02,788 - You decided not to keep a secret. 259 00:12:02,821 --> 00:12:06,191 - Correct. I knew the way I was raised, 260 00:12:06,225 --> 00:12:08,093 I needed to do the right thing. 261 00:12:08,127 --> 00:12:10,529 - So Gary called the prosecutor's office, 262 00:12:10,562 --> 00:12:12,631 which called the Boise Police Department, 263 00:12:12,664 --> 00:12:16,268 which opened an investigation into Lloyd's long-ago departure, 264 00:12:16,301 --> 00:12:18,470 a 27-year-old disappearance, 265 00:12:18,504 --> 00:12:20,706 a case they never knew existed. 266 00:12:20,739 --> 00:12:23,142 But they certainly did now, 267 00:12:23,175 --> 00:12:25,077 and that's how, one day, 268 00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:28,080 the cops showed up on Kim's doorstep. 269 00:12:28,113 --> 00:12:30,949 - I spent my whole life 270 00:12:30,983 --> 00:12:34,820 waiting for the other shoe to drop. 271 00:12:34,853 --> 00:12:37,089 You know? 272 00:12:37,089 --> 00:12:40,325 - And here it was. 273 00:12:40,359 --> 00:12:42,628 - What really happened to Lloyd? 274 00:12:42,661 --> 00:12:45,664 Kim shares the bone-chilling details. 275 00:12:47,533 --> 00:12:50,402 - She says, "How would you like it if Lloyd was gone? 276 00:12:50,436 --> 00:12:52,705 And I'm thinking, there's no way she'd do it. 277 00:12:52,738 --> 00:12:54,139 Who would do that? 278 00:12:54,173 --> 00:12:57,776 - When "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered" continues. 279 00:13:10,422 --> 00:13:11,857 - Kimberly had a secret, 280 00:13:12,791 --> 00:13:17,229 a terrible, unspeakable, guilty family secret. 281 00:13:17,262 --> 00:13:19,865 She'd kept it, nursed it, cried about it, 282 00:13:19,898 --> 00:13:21,767 for a quarter century, 283 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,170 until, finally, no longer able to hide the awful truth, 284 00:13:25,204 --> 00:13:27,072 she'd spilled it to her boss, 285 00:13:27,106 --> 00:13:31,310 and now she's about to tell us. 286 00:13:31,343 --> 00:13:34,213 - It's real hard to face the truth. 287 00:13:34,246 --> 00:13:36,615 It almost killed me. 288 00:13:36,648 --> 00:13:39,385 - It was late afternoon. Spring was coming. 289 00:13:39,418 --> 00:13:42,388 It was 1980. Lloyd was still around, 290 00:13:42,421 --> 00:13:44,089 the rest of the kids outside. 291 00:13:44,089 --> 00:13:48,293 Kim was, as usual, trying to be the perfect little daughter, 292 00:13:48,327 --> 00:13:50,329 helping around the house. 293 00:13:50,362 --> 00:13:52,231 They were in the kitchen, Kim says, 294 00:13:52,264 --> 00:13:53,766 when Judy looked down at her 295 00:13:53,799 --> 00:13:56,568 and asked a very curious question. 296 00:13:56,602 --> 00:13:59,605 - She was just cookin' dinner, and she says, 297 00:13:59,638 --> 00:14:02,508 "How would you like it if Lloyd was gone?" 298 00:14:02,541 --> 00:14:03,942 "Gone" to a 12 year old-- 299 00:14:04,043 --> 00:14:08,180 going, divorcing, moving out. 300 00:14:08,213 --> 00:14:10,049 - What'd you think when you heard that? 301 00:14:10,049 --> 00:14:12,184 - Sounded all right. 302 00:14:12,217 --> 00:14:15,454 - Kim was used to Judy's uneven love life. 303 00:14:15,487 --> 00:14:18,424 Divorce didn't sound like disaster. 304 00:14:18,457 --> 00:14:20,626 She loved having her mother to herself. 305 00:14:20,659 --> 00:14:24,229 Here's Kim's memory of what her mother said to her. 306 00:14:24,263 --> 00:14:26,899 - "Oh, you know, woudln't it be nice if he wasn't here, 307 00:14:26,932 --> 00:14:31,236 "and, you know, we could be together, you know? 308 00:14:31,270 --> 00:14:34,640 "Just you guys and me and wouldn't that be nice?" 309 00:14:34,673 --> 00:14:36,475 - The way it used to be. - Just like I always wanted it. 310 00:14:36,508 --> 00:14:39,511 - But then, subtly, unmistakeably, said Kim, 311 00:14:39,545 --> 00:14:41,980 her mother's idea changed, 312 00:14:42,081 --> 00:14:45,184 didn't sound like divorce after all. 313 00:14:45,217 --> 00:14:49,188 - She made a list of all his faults and-- 314 00:14:49,221 --> 00:14:50,656 - Do you remember what you said? 315 00:14:50,689 --> 00:14:53,325 - I never really questioned her. 316 00:14:53,359 --> 00:14:56,128 You just sit there and let her talk, you know? 317 00:14:56,161 --> 00:14:57,496 - Safer. - Yeah. 318 00:14:57,529 --> 00:15:02,034 - And this went on? - A couple days, maybe a week. 319 00:15:02,034 --> 00:15:05,404 And each day, it was a little more revealing, 320 00:15:05,437 --> 00:15:08,941 until finally, she just blurted it out, you know? 321 00:15:09,041 --> 00:15:11,310 "What would you think if he was dead?" 322 00:15:11,343 --> 00:15:14,313 - Did you think that meant-- What? That he was-- 323 00:15:14,346 --> 00:15:16,315 - Well, I thought he maybe had cancer or he was sick, 324 00:15:16,348 --> 00:15:18,717 or-- You know. - That maybe he was gonna die, 325 00:15:18,751 --> 00:15:22,554 and she was preparing you? - Yeah, I mean, you never know. 326 00:15:22,588 --> 00:15:26,658 - But that was not what Judy had in mind, said Kim. 327 00:15:26,692 --> 00:15:30,729 And soon it was much clearer what she did intend. 328 00:15:30,763 --> 00:15:33,065 - And then she said, you know, "What if I killed him?" 329 00:15:33,065 --> 00:15:36,435 - "What if I killed him?" - Right. 330 00:15:36,468 --> 00:15:38,804 But she was being so vague. 331 00:15:38,837 --> 00:15:41,440 And I'm thinking, there's no way she'd do it. 332 00:15:41,473 --> 00:15:45,411 It was so surreal. Who would do that? 333 00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:47,279 - And then that was the last that was said for a while, 334 00:15:47,312 --> 00:15:49,481 or what? - For a bit, 335 00:15:49,515 --> 00:15:53,485 and then she started going through scenarios, you know? 336 00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:56,155 "What if I smothered him? What if, you know, 337 00:15:56,188 --> 00:15:58,323 "what if I slit his throat?" And you're sitting there, 338 00:15:58,357 --> 00:16:01,260 and you're like, "Why are you telling me this?" 339 00:16:01,293 --> 00:16:04,530 - She was 12, desperate for her mother's approval, 340 00:16:04,563 --> 00:16:06,065 which is why, she said, 341 00:16:06,098 --> 00:16:08,400 she muffled the silent voice in her head 342 00:16:08,434 --> 00:16:11,136 that asked why she was being sent to the store 343 00:16:11,170 --> 00:16:13,906 to buy sleeping pills. 344 00:16:13,939 --> 00:16:16,642 When you went on that errand, 345 00:16:16,675 --> 00:16:18,777 did you have any notion of what they were for? 346 00:16:18,811 --> 00:16:20,846 - She sent us to the store all the time. 347 00:16:20,879 --> 00:16:22,548 - Later on, you saw her doing something 348 00:16:22,581 --> 00:16:25,050 with those sleeping pills? - Crunching them up. 349 00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:28,120 - Crunching them up? - Mm-hmm. 350 00:16:28,153 --> 00:16:30,122 - To a powder. - Uh-huh. 351 00:16:30,155 --> 00:16:32,825 - Kim watched Judy prepare Lloyd's favorite dessert, 352 00:16:32,858 --> 00:16:35,861 ice cream with butterscotch topping, 353 00:16:35,894 --> 00:16:38,964 watched Judy mix in those crushed sleeping pills, 354 00:16:39,064 --> 00:16:41,467 watched Lloyd devour it. 355 00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:44,770 Next morning, when the boys went off to school, 356 00:16:44,803 --> 00:16:46,905 Judy kept Kim at home, 357 00:16:46,939 --> 00:16:49,675 so she knew her stepfather stayed in bed, 358 00:16:49,708 --> 00:16:52,411 saw her mother crush more pills in Lloyd's coffee, 359 00:16:52,444 --> 00:16:55,247 in his soup, in more ice cream. 360 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,250 Later, said Kim, she heard a racket 361 00:16:58,283 --> 00:16:59,852 behind the bedrooom door. 362 00:16:59,885 --> 00:17:03,689 - Lloyd was trying to get out to go to the bathroom, 363 00:17:03,722 --> 00:17:07,393 and they had their fishin' poles behind the door, 364 00:17:07,426 --> 00:17:09,128 and he had the hooks in his hands. 365 00:17:09,161 --> 00:17:10,629 - Ow. - Yeah. 366 00:17:10,662 --> 00:17:12,598 And I don't even know that he felt the pain. 367 00:17:12,631 --> 00:17:14,566 - Yeah. Did he say anything? - But he was just 368 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,036 all tangled up, and he was mumbling, 369 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:21,407 and the only thing I understood was Lloyd had said, 370 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,876 "What in the hell is wrong with me?" 371 00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:25,678 And he kept falling into the wall, 372 00:17:25,711 --> 00:17:29,048 and she's, you know, telling him he's gonna be fine, 373 00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:32,217 and, you know, "You'll feel better soon." 374 00:17:32,251 --> 00:17:35,387 - Then, Kim says, Judy turned 'round to her, 375 00:17:35,421 --> 00:17:37,289 gave her another errand. 376 00:17:37,322 --> 00:17:41,727 - I was told to go outside and get the trunk, um, 377 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,063 clean it out. - Did you understand 378 00:17:44,063 --> 00:17:45,297 why you were doing this? - But I wasn't-- 379 00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:47,900 I think I was too afraid to comprehend what was going on. 380 00:17:47,933 --> 00:17:50,769 I was just living second to second, 381 00:17:50,803 --> 00:17:52,671 doing what she was telling me to do. 382 00:17:52,705 --> 00:17:54,940 - But she remembers, she said, 383 00:17:54,973 --> 00:17:58,644 clear as if it was this very morning, what happened 384 00:17:58,677 --> 00:18:01,880 when she dragged an old trunk back into the house. 385 00:18:01,914 --> 00:18:03,816 - She had come out of the bedroom, 386 00:18:03,849 --> 00:18:07,219 and she was standing there, smoking, 387 00:18:07,252 --> 00:18:09,421 and I was in the living room, 388 00:18:09,455 --> 00:18:13,125 and she just put it out and said, "I'm ready." 389 00:18:17,296 --> 00:18:21,333 - One moment of horror, and a lifetime of pain. 390 00:18:21,367 --> 00:18:24,403 - You just... 391 00:18:24,436 --> 00:18:28,040 stuff it deep inside. 392 00:18:39,551 --> 00:18:41,854 - Welcome back to "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 393 00:18:42,254 --> 00:18:43,455 I'm Craig Melvin. 394 00:18:43,489 --> 00:18:47,393 Judy spiked her husband Lloyd's food with sleeping pills 395 00:18:47,426 --> 00:18:49,595 as her daughter, Kim, looked on. 396 00:18:49,628 --> 00:18:52,931 What happened next would haunt Kim for years, 397 00:18:52,965 --> 00:18:56,335 until the secret became too much to bear. 398 00:18:56,368 --> 00:18:58,871 That's when the floodgates finally opened, 399 00:18:58,904 --> 00:19:01,507 and the terrifying truth came spilling out 400 00:19:01,540 --> 00:19:04,610 about that day so long ago. 401 00:19:04,643 --> 00:19:08,113 Back to Keith Morrison with "The Family Secret." 402 00:19:12,051 --> 00:19:13,719 - Kimberly, 12 years old, 403 00:19:13,752 --> 00:19:15,354 saw her mother standing in the living room 404 00:19:15,387 --> 00:19:18,190 in their house on Clark Street in Boise, Idaho. 405 00:19:18,223 --> 00:19:21,460 Behind the bedroom door, her stepfater was in a stupor, 406 00:19:21,493 --> 00:19:23,395 induced by the very sleeping pills 407 00:19:23,429 --> 00:19:25,531 Kim said her mother had sent her to buy. 408 00:19:25,564 --> 00:19:31,136 Now, said Kim, she heard her mother say, "I'm ready." 409 00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:34,106 - She told me to go in the bedroom, 410 00:19:34,139 --> 00:19:36,108 which I didn't like, 411 00:19:36,141 --> 00:19:39,178 'cause we weren't allowed in there. 412 00:19:39,211 --> 00:19:41,647 She had been in there prior, 413 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,148 checking on him and whatnot, 414 00:19:43,182 --> 00:19:45,451 at some point had put him on the floor 415 00:19:45,484 --> 00:19:47,419 on a sheet, 416 00:19:47,453 --> 00:19:48,754 and I really didn't know 417 00:19:48,787 --> 00:19:52,391 exactly how she was gonna do it until I walked in 418 00:19:52,424 --> 00:19:55,627 and saw the gun at the end of the bed, 419 00:19:55,661 --> 00:19:58,063 and she went over 420 00:19:58,097 --> 00:20:01,100 and turned up the stereo really loud, 421 00:20:01,133 --> 00:20:04,036 and she said that would cover the noise. 422 00:20:04,069 --> 00:20:06,105 First, she asked me to pull the trigger. 423 00:20:06,138 --> 00:20:08,640 - She gave you the gun? - No, no, she was holding it. 424 00:20:08,674 --> 00:20:10,476 - She was holding the gun. - And she wanted me 425 00:20:10,509 --> 00:20:11,510 to pull the trigger. - Pointed at him. 426 00:20:11,543 --> 00:20:13,112 - Right. - Where at him? 427 00:20:13,145 --> 00:20:15,314 - At his chest, and then said, 428 00:20:15,347 --> 00:20:17,249 "Well, help me pull the trigger." 429 00:20:17,282 --> 00:20:19,952 And I basically refused to do it, 430 00:20:19,985 --> 00:20:22,087 and I started screaming at her, "What do you want? 431 00:20:22,121 --> 00:20:24,490 "What do you want from me? What do you want me to do?" 432 00:20:24,523 --> 00:20:28,727 And she said, "Just cover my ears." 433 00:20:28,761 --> 00:20:31,764 And so I put my hands on either side of her, 434 00:20:31,797 --> 00:20:33,966 and I closed my eyes really tight, 435 00:20:33,999 --> 00:20:36,935 and she kept saying something, 436 00:20:36,969 --> 00:20:39,738 and it seemed like forever, and I just screamed. 437 00:20:39,772 --> 00:20:42,007 I said, "If you're gonna do it, just do it." 438 00:20:42,041 --> 00:20:45,244 And it was just a moment later. 439 00:20:45,277 --> 00:20:50,716 It was this loudest noise I ever heard in my life. 440 00:20:50,749 --> 00:20:53,519 And I ran out to the back yard 441 00:20:53,552 --> 00:20:55,387 into the alley. 442 00:20:55,421 --> 00:20:57,690 - Kim cowered there, 443 00:20:57,723 --> 00:21:00,159 shaking and listening. 444 00:21:00,192 --> 00:21:04,196 - I was horrified. I just sat there. 445 00:21:04,229 --> 00:21:05,898 I mean, I was crying and screaming, 446 00:21:05,931 --> 00:21:11,203 rocking back and forth, and... 447 00:21:11,236 --> 00:21:14,707 listening. - Listening for what? 448 00:21:14,740 --> 00:21:18,777 - For his voice, her voice, something. 449 00:21:18,811 --> 00:21:20,779 - 'Cause you didn't think she had actually one it? 450 00:21:20,813 --> 00:21:22,815 - I wasn't sure. Maybe she missed. 451 00:21:22,848 --> 00:21:25,884 Maybe he woke up. You know? 452 00:21:25,918 --> 00:21:28,787 There was a part of me that really wanted him to wake up, 453 00:21:28,821 --> 00:21:32,291 but I made my way back to the house. 454 00:21:32,324 --> 00:21:35,928 - Back to her mother. 455 00:21:35,961 --> 00:21:39,264 - I think she hugged me, told me she loved me. 456 00:21:39,298 --> 00:21:40,699 - That was supposed to make it okay? 457 00:21:40,733 --> 00:21:42,401 - Yeah. - And did it? 458 00:21:42,434 --> 00:21:43,869 - No. 459 00:21:43,902 --> 00:21:45,537 - What happened then? 460 00:21:45,571 --> 00:21:48,140 - I had to go into the room, 461 00:21:48,173 --> 00:21:50,943 and the smell was still there. 462 00:21:50,976 --> 00:21:52,778 - The smell of what? 463 00:21:52,811 --> 00:21:56,181 - Gunpowder, and, uh, 464 00:21:56,215 --> 00:21:58,917 I didn't look at him. 465 00:21:58,951 --> 00:22:01,086 I just grabbed the end of my sheet, 466 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,057 did as I was told. - The sheet he was lying on. 467 00:22:05,057 --> 00:22:07,359 - Pulled him down the hall. She had one end. 468 00:22:07,393 --> 00:22:08,894 I had the other. - Right. 469 00:22:08,927 --> 00:22:11,563 - And he was too heavy. He was so heavy. 470 00:22:11,597 --> 00:22:13,866 - This is where you got in close. 471 00:22:13,899 --> 00:22:15,801 - I had to touch him. 472 00:22:15,834 --> 00:22:18,203 - What did it feel like? 473 00:22:18,237 --> 00:22:20,205 - He was still warm. 474 00:22:20,239 --> 00:22:23,509 - But very obviously dead? - Yeah. 475 00:22:26,645 --> 00:22:29,815 - But she was not finished then. Not even close. 476 00:22:29,848 --> 00:22:33,218 Her mother, she said, had another job for her. 477 00:22:33,252 --> 00:22:34,553 - She said, "Well, we gotta lift him up 478 00:22:34,586 --> 00:22:37,756 and put him in the trunk." 479 00:22:37,790 --> 00:22:39,591 I had to grab him under his legs. 480 00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:44,730 He was so heavy. 481 00:22:44,763 --> 00:22:47,599 And we got him in there, and... 482 00:22:47,633 --> 00:22:49,935 she just shut the lid. 483 00:22:49,968 --> 00:22:52,438 Closed the latches. 484 00:22:52,471 --> 00:22:56,008 We drug it out back and put it next to the house. 485 00:22:57,376 --> 00:23:00,379 - Out the door on the porch? 486 00:23:00,412 --> 00:23:02,548 - Stacked some boxes on it. 487 00:23:02,581 --> 00:23:04,583 - Judy rented a carpet cleaner. 488 00:23:04,616 --> 00:23:07,386 Kim helped her clean the blood off the floors. 489 00:23:07,419 --> 00:23:09,521 She scrubbed the blood off the wall. 490 00:23:09,555 --> 00:23:12,391 She made it look normal. 491 00:23:12,424 --> 00:23:15,928 But that trunk kept sitting there on the porch. 492 00:23:15,961 --> 00:23:20,232 What'd she do with it? - A couple days 493 00:23:20,265 --> 00:23:23,869 before she murdered him, she told the boys 494 00:23:23,902 --> 00:23:27,706 that we were gonna plant a peach tree out back, 495 00:23:27,740 --> 00:23:31,276 and so they were to dig a big hole to put the tree in, 496 00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:36,849 and a few days after the murder, 497 00:23:36,882 --> 00:23:40,586 the hole's filled in, but there's no peach tree. 498 00:23:40,619 --> 00:23:42,354 She changed her mind. 499 00:23:42,388 --> 00:23:44,390 - Did you ever figure out how she got that trunk 500 00:23:44,423 --> 00:23:48,394 from the porch to the hole and got it filled in? 501 00:23:48,427 --> 00:23:51,263 - She had asked my brother, Shane. 502 00:23:51,296 --> 00:23:53,699 - So now there are two people in on it, 503 00:23:53,732 --> 00:23:56,168 you and Shane. 504 00:23:56,201 --> 00:23:58,604 Did you talk to Shane about it? 505 00:23:58,637 --> 00:24:00,572 - Not really. - You're brother and sister. 506 00:24:00,606 --> 00:24:01,807 Did the two of you say, "My God, 507 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,543 "she just killed him and we're complicit." 508 00:24:04,576 --> 00:24:07,379 Did-- and that conversation never happened? 509 00:24:07,413 --> 00:24:10,416 Why not? - We didn't talk about it. 510 00:24:10,449 --> 00:24:13,185 She swore me to secrecy, 511 00:24:13,218 --> 00:24:15,054 made me promise. 512 00:24:15,054 --> 00:24:16,955 - There was more to the secret then. 513 00:24:17,056 --> 00:24:19,858 Judy, said Kim, devised a cover story. 514 00:24:19,892 --> 00:24:23,629 And when she said it, it sounded true. 515 00:24:23,662 --> 00:24:25,931 - She totally lived the, 516 00:24:25,964 --> 00:24:28,500 "My husband left me for another woman." 517 00:24:28,534 --> 00:24:30,636 - And that was really believable? 518 00:24:30,669 --> 00:24:33,072 - Yeah. And there was such a short time 519 00:24:33,072 --> 00:24:36,442 after Lloyd left-- 520 00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:38,477 Lloyd was murdered... 521 00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:40,479 - Funny how that's stuck in your head, "Lloyd left." 522 00:24:40,512 --> 00:24:41,580 - That's what-- - Because that was the fiction 523 00:24:41,613 --> 00:24:43,649 for so many years. - That's what we had to say. 524 00:24:43,682 --> 00:24:46,652 - Kim stuffed it all inside, locked up the secret, 525 00:24:46,685 --> 00:24:50,456 kept her mother happy. But it wasn't over. 526 00:24:50,489 --> 00:24:52,858 A few months later, she said, Judy had another job 527 00:24:52,891 --> 00:24:55,828 for Kim and her brother Shane. 528 00:24:55,861 --> 00:24:58,530 "Couldn't leave a body in the backyard," said Judy. 529 00:24:58,564 --> 00:25:02,101 They'd have to dig it up, move it. 530 00:25:03,302 --> 00:25:04,603 They had buried it in an old trunk 531 00:25:04,636 --> 00:25:06,605 they had on the property back then. 532 00:25:06,638 --> 00:25:10,409 Out in the yard, said Kim, they started digging. 533 00:25:10,442 --> 00:25:12,678 - We were digging for quite a while, 534 00:25:12,711 --> 00:25:15,714 and we came to the trunk, 535 00:25:15,748 --> 00:25:17,916 and it was falling apart. 536 00:25:17,950 --> 00:25:21,520 - They looked at their mother. What should they do? 537 00:25:21,553 --> 00:25:25,324 - And she's-- was just so cold and matter of fact. 538 00:25:25,357 --> 00:25:27,860 Just, you know, "Grab what you can." 539 00:25:27,893 --> 00:25:29,795 - As we started pulling it out, 540 00:25:29,828 --> 00:25:33,399 there was this horrendous smell. 541 00:25:33,432 --> 00:25:36,935 - He hadn't disintegrated? - Not much. 542 00:25:36,969 --> 00:25:41,173 And you could still see his tattoos on his arms. 543 00:25:41,206 --> 00:25:44,209 They had decided that 544 00:25:44,243 --> 00:25:47,613 it wasn't going to work and to just rebury him. 545 00:25:47,646 --> 00:25:50,716 - So he stayed there. - He stayed. 546 00:25:50,749 --> 00:25:54,653 And you just... 547 00:25:54,687 --> 00:25:57,956 stuff it deep inside, 548 00:25:59,091 --> 00:26:01,093 and try to be normal. 549 00:26:01,126 --> 00:26:03,495 - But of course it wasn't normal at all. 550 00:26:03,529 --> 00:26:05,064 And over the years, said Kim, 551 00:26:05,097 --> 00:26:07,466 it was only her conflicted ties to her mother, 552 00:26:07,499 --> 00:26:11,070 that powerful emotional glue, that kept the two close 553 00:26:11,103 --> 00:26:13,806 and the secret horror bottled up. 554 00:26:13,839 --> 00:26:16,375 That and her mother's promise. 555 00:26:16,408 --> 00:26:19,244 - Hundreds and hundreds of times 556 00:26:19,278 --> 00:26:22,681 she reassured me that, you know, 557 00:26:22,715 --> 00:26:26,285 "I'll go turn myself in if it'll make you better." 558 00:26:26,318 --> 00:26:28,320 - What should she do? A perfect daughter 559 00:26:28,354 --> 00:26:30,622 could never betray her mother, 560 00:26:30,656 --> 00:26:32,591 nor could anyone, apparently, 561 00:26:32,624 --> 00:26:36,328 in the circle of deceit that grew and grew. 562 00:26:36,362 --> 00:26:39,765 But betrayals were coming, and not just one. 563 00:26:39,798 --> 00:26:42,134 Finally, Kim would learn what could happen 564 00:26:42,167 --> 00:26:45,070 to a daughter who disobeyed her mother. 565 00:26:47,406 --> 00:26:48,774 - Coming up-- 566 00:26:48,807 --> 00:26:51,176 The police have a job for Kim-- 567 00:26:51,210 --> 00:26:54,079 go undercover to catch her mother. 568 00:26:56,615 --> 00:27:00,152 When "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered" continues. 569 00:27:10,162 --> 00:27:13,332 - Kimberly was the keeper of an awful family secret, 570 00:27:13,365 --> 00:27:15,534 a secret she had never been able to tell 571 00:27:15,567 --> 00:27:18,137 her own step siblings, Lloyd's children-- 572 00:27:18,170 --> 00:27:21,040 that she had attended the murder of their father. 573 00:27:21,073 --> 00:27:23,642 And so they knew nothing. 574 00:27:23,676 --> 00:27:25,911 Nothing at all. 575 00:27:25,944 --> 00:27:29,481 In 1981, less than a year after Lloyd's murder, 576 00:27:29,515 --> 00:27:34,053 Judy got married again, and life went on as before. 577 00:27:34,053 --> 00:27:36,488 Fifteen years after the murder, 578 00:27:36,522 --> 00:27:38,490 Judy sold the house on Clark Street 579 00:27:38,524 --> 00:27:41,060 to her youngest son, Kim's little brother, 580 00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:42,895 who moved in with his new wife, 581 00:27:42,928 --> 00:27:46,131 who learned about the secret and insisted, 582 00:27:46,165 --> 00:27:48,267 "Get rid of the body." 583 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:51,403 So now Kim, married with two kids of her own, 584 00:27:51,437 --> 00:27:53,439 returned to that childhood home 585 00:27:53,472 --> 00:27:56,542 and told her siblings where to dig. 586 00:27:56,575 --> 00:27:58,510 - I had to go show them where it was 587 00:27:58,544 --> 00:28:00,279 'cause nobody remembered. 588 00:28:00,312 --> 00:28:02,481 - But you did. - Sure. 589 00:28:02,514 --> 00:28:04,416 It's still burned in my memory. 590 00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:07,386 - Kim's brothers and a cousin dug up Lloyd's remains, 591 00:28:07,419 --> 00:28:11,457 took them to a dumpster. The secret circle grew. 592 00:28:11,490 --> 00:28:14,426 And Kim felt she loved her mother still, 593 00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:16,495 but warned her, too. 594 00:28:16,528 --> 00:28:19,431 It was ever harder to keep silent. 595 00:28:19,465 --> 00:28:22,034 - I guess I had made a deal with her, 596 00:28:22,034 --> 00:28:25,738 which was I would never 597 00:28:25,771 --> 00:28:27,506 come right out and tell anybody. 598 00:28:27,539 --> 00:28:29,074 And I told her that unless somebody 599 00:28:29,108 --> 00:28:32,044 asked me directly, 600 00:28:32,044 --> 00:28:33,712 'cause I won't lie. 601 00:28:33,746 --> 00:28:36,915 She didn't like that answer. 602 00:28:36,949 --> 00:28:40,953 So she'd always call and do a mental check on me 603 00:28:41,053 --> 00:28:44,256 and then do her old standby promise 604 00:28:44,289 --> 00:28:46,291 that she'll do the right thing. 605 00:28:46,325 --> 00:28:49,361 - If and when the time came. - Right. 606 00:28:49,395 --> 00:28:51,497 - But she didn't. 607 00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:55,067 And now Kim had told, and 27 years after the day 608 00:28:55,067 --> 00:28:57,536 she helped her mother cover up a murder, 609 00:28:57,569 --> 00:29:01,140 Detective Brian Lee was at her door. 610 00:29:01,173 --> 00:29:02,808 - I think my first reaction was one 611 00:29:02,841 --> 00:29:06,045 of disbelief almost. Really? 612 00:29:06,078 --> 00:29:08,347 Could this have been kept quiet that long? 613 00:29:08,380 --> 00:29:11,083 - What did she look like when she came to the door? 614 00:29:11,116 --> 00:29:13,218 - I wouldn't say she was surprised. 615 00:29:13,252 --> 00:29:17,256 Almost expecting, probably, that we were going to be there. 616 00:29:17,289 --> 00:29:21,026 - So she told it again, relieved to be getting rid of it. 617 00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:24,096 And then came the request she didn't expect. 618 00:29:24,129 --> 00:29:26,065 More than a request, really. 619 00:29:26,098 --> 00:29:28,634 She'd have to go undercover and record 620 00:29:28,667 --> 00:29:32,104 an incriminating phone call with her mother. 621 00:29:33,238 --> 00:29:34,940 What was that conversation like? 622 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,642 - It was so hard. 623 00:29:36,675 --> 00:29:39,211 I was going to have to betray her 624 00:29:39,244 --> 00:29:40,846 to get what they wanted. 625 00:29:45,317 --> 00:29:47,753 - Here, as the call begins, they chatter for a bit 626 00:29:47,786 --> 00:29:50,322 about nothing much. And then... 627 00:30:29,428 --> 00:30:32,131 The call was over, a failure. 628 00:30:32,164 --> 00:30:34,233 What'd you think when you heard that? 629 00:30:34,266 --> 00:30:36,502 - Made me a little nervous. - I bet. 630 00:30:36,535 --> 00:30:40,072 - But she was pretty keen to what was going on, I think. 631 00:30:40,105 --> 00:30:42,975 - Then, Judy called back. 632 00:30:43,008 --> 00:30:44,643 They pushed the record button. 633 00:31:45,137 --> 00:31:47,906 - The police had what they needed. 634 00:31:47,940 --> 00:31:49,942 But Judy wasn't finished. 635 00:32:13,332 --> 00:32:16,702 - I felt like I was going to die. 636 00:32:16,735 --> 00:32:19,705 I betrayed her and I betrayed my whole family. 637 00:32:21,373 --> 00:32:22,708 - And now, 638 00:32:22,741 --> 00:32:26,111 the police wanted more. 639 00:32:26,145 --> 00:32:28,681 - They wanted me to go over to the house 640 00:32:28,714 --> 00:32:32,151 and show them where everything had happened. 641 00:32:32,184 --> 00:32:34,386 - Once again point out the spot where he was buried? 642 00:32:34,420 --> 00:32:36,655 - Yeah. - It was, of course, 643 00:32:36,689 --> 00:32:38,757 burned into her memory. 644 00:32:38,791 --> 00:32:41,493 For three days the police dug up the past 645 00:32:41,527 --> 00:32:43,829 in the backyard on Clark Street. 646 00:32:43,862 --> 00:32:47,900 - We had to go over and process that area that-- 647 00:32:47,933 --> 00:32:49,568 where we were told the body was. 648 00:32:49,601 --> 00:32:52,004 It's part of validating the story that Kim told. 649 00:32:52,104 --> 00:32:54,606 - So was there anything left? 650 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,910 - We found fragments of bone and bone. 651 00:32:57,943 --> 00:33:02,147 - Seven bone fragments, all that was left of Lloyd Ford. 652 00:33:02,181 --> 00:33:05,050 Police were able to determine that at least 10 members 653 00:33:05,084 --> 00:33:08,721 of Judy's family had helped keep the secret. 654 00:33:08,754 --> 00:33:10,956 In your experience, when that many people 655 00:33:11,056 --> 00:33:14,727 are aware of such a dark thing, 656 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,161 does it stay hidden for very long? 657 00:33:16,195 --> 00:33:18,864 - No. That's what was puzzling to us, 658 00:33:18,897 --> 00:33:21,433 was how it was kept quiet for that long. 659 00:33:21,467 --> 00:33:23,569 - It suggests a measure of control 660 00:33:23,602 --> 00:33:25,871 over those folks, which would be unusual. 661 00:33:25,904 --> 00:33:27,840 - Very much so. 662 00:33:27,873 --> 00:33:31,176 - But the statute of limitations applied now. 663 00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:33,312 Only one person could be held accountable. 664 00:33:33,345 --> 00:33:35,581 Only Judy, and, thus, 665 00:33:35,614 --> 00:33:37,716 the law would ensure that Kim's awful secret 666 00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:39,284 would be exposed in court, 667 00:33:39,318 --> 00:33:41,787 the crime revealed, justice served. 668 00:33:41,820 --> 00:33:44,690 But would it be justice or even the whole truth? 669 00:33:44,723 --> 00:33:46,392 Kim had turned on Judy, 670 00:33:46,425 --> 00:33:49,695 but this mother hadn't quite finished yet 671 00:33:49,728 --> 00:33:51,296 with her daughter. 672 00:33:51,330 --> 00:33:55,501 I know she was screaming, "Do it! Do it! Do it! 673 00:33:55,534 --> 00:33:57,236 "Just do it!" 674 00:34:00,539 --> 00:34:02,474 - Judy tells her story, 675 00:34:02,508 --> 00:34:05,244 and there's one more twist in store. 676 00:34:05,277 --> 00:34:06,578 - A jury could acquit her. 677 00:34:19,258 --> 00:34:21,560 - Lloyd Ford missed his children's birthdays, 678 00:34:22,428 --> 00:34:25,130 missed their graduations, their weddings. 679 00:34:25,164 --> 00:34:28,334 Sandy Burke's brother, Tom, walked her down the aisle. 680 00:34:28,367 --> 00:34:32,571 Lloyd missed all that because, or so his family was told, 681 00:34:32,604 --> 00:34:37,076 he'd left them all, just didn't care. 682 00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:39,411 - Just not having him there was really hard, 683 00:34:39,445 --> 00:34:42,448 but to think that he had walked away... 684 00:34:44,283 --> 00:34:46,385 We couldn't even stand it, 685 00:34:46,418 --> 00:34:47,753 to the point that my brother and I 686 00:34:47,786 --> 00:34:50,656 would never have pictures of my dad out in the house, 687 00:34:50,689 --> 00:34:53,092 because if you have a picture there, 688 00:34:53,092 --> 00:34:55,094 someone's gonna have to ask about your dad, 689 00:34:55,094 --> 00:34:56,428 and you're gonna have to admit 690 00:34:56,462 --> 00:34:58,564 that the person that you thought you were closest to 691 00:34:58,597 --> 00:35:03,202 in the whole world had just turned and walked away. 692 00:35:03,235 --> 00:35:05,504 "Where's your dad now?" "I don't know." 693 00:35:05,537 --> 00:35:08,207 - But, of course, it was all a lie. 694 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:10,109 Their father never left them, 695 00:35:10,142 --> 00:35:13,846 and the truth, when police finally called to tell them? 696 00:35:13,879 --> 00:35:16,682 - It was just almost indescribable 697 00:35:16,715 --> 00:35:18,050 to think that he had been murdered 698 00:35:18,050 --> 00:35:21,220 the way that he had been murdered, 699 00:35:21,253 --> 00:35:25,657 with absolutely no regard for human life, just none. 700 00:35:25,691 --> 00:35:29,361 Just treated like a piece of garbage. 701 00:35:29,395 --> 00:35:31,964 That was hard. 702 00:35:32,064 --> 00:35:36,402 - Yes, and then they discovered that Lloyd's own son, Tom, 703 00:35:36,435 --> 00:35:39,071 had unknowingly dug his father's grave 704 00:35:39,071 --> 00:35:41,407 when Judy told him to prepare a backyard hole 705 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,575 to plant a peach tree. 706 00:35:43,609 --> 00:35:47,179 - I think it's almost impossible to comprehend 707 00:35:47,212 --> 00:35:50,115 that type of evil. 708 00:35:50,149 --> 00:35:51,450 - Sandy watched online 709 00:35:51,483 --> 00:35:54,653 as the Boise Police dug up all that was left of their father, 710 00:35:54,687 --> 00:35:57,122 those seven bone fragments. 711 00:35:57,156 --> 00:35:59,091 They tried to understand 712 00:35:59,091 --> 00:36:03,028 how Judy got her own children to help murder their father. 713 00:36:03,028 --> 00:36:06,031 - My dad was the only dad these kids knew, 714 00:36:06,031 --> 00:36:07,633 and yet, somehow, 715 00:36:07,666 --> 00:36:11,236 she got these kids to participate in the murder, 716 00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:12,538 to bury the body, 717 00:36:12,571 --> 00:36:15,074 to dig up the body later that year, 718 00:36:15,107 --> 00:36:17,476 how do you get your kids to do something like that? 719 00:36:17,509 --> 00:36:19,178 Where is your mind 720 00:36:19,211 --> 00:36:22,414 of someone that would do something like that? 721 00:36:22,448 --> 00:36:24,616 - On September 28, 2007, 722 00:36:24,650 --> 00:36:27,386 Judy Gough, now a 61-year-old grandmother, 723 00:36:27,419 --> 00:36:29,355 took her dogs for a walk, 724 00:36:29,388 --> 00:36:31,557 and that's where police arrested her, 725 00:36:31,590 --> 00:36:33,592 but when they took her downtown... 726 00:36:33,625 --> 00:36:36,495 - She requested an attorney right as we sat down. 727 00:36:36,528 --> 00:36:38,197 - That was it. - Yeah, there was no interview. 728 00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:41,467 - No surprise. - Not to me, really. 729 00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:45,704 She had 27 years to think about that decision. 730 00:36:45,738 --> 00:36:48,273 - Judy was charged with first degree murder, 731 00:36:48,307 --> 00:36:51,577 and that's when Patrick Orr, then of the "Idaho Statesman" 732 00:36:51,610 --> 00:36:53,912 began reporting the story. 733 00:36:53,946 --> 00:36:55,948 - This was somebody who had no criminal record. 734 00:36:55,981 --> 00:36:59,118 Her friends described her as a kind, loving person, 735 00:36:59,151 --> 00:37:01,854 somebody they trusted, so there was a lot of confusion. 736 00:37:01,887 --> 00:37:03,389 There was a lot of shock. 737 00:37:03,422 --> 00:37:05,290 - Judy appeared before a judge, 738 00:37:05,324 --> 00:37:09,361 who determined she was not a risk and granted bail, 739 00:37:09,395 --> 00:37:11,030 and six months later, 740 00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:13,065 her public defender went on the offense 741 00:37:13,098 --> 00:37:15,034 with a stunning claim. 742 00:37:15,034 --> 00:37:18,137 Lloyd, she said, was an abuser. 743 00:37:18,170 --> 00:37:20,606 She'd killed him, she said, in defense of her life 744 00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:22,441 and her children. 745 00:37:22,474 --> 00:37:24,343 - This is a woman who loves her family, 746 00:37:24,376 --> 00:37:26,178 who'd do whatever she can for her family. 747 00:37:26,211 --> 00:37:29,248 - Reporter Orr spoke to Judy's youngest son. 748 00:37:29,281 --> 00:37:31,817 - He told me that Lloyd was abusive. 749 00:37:31,850 --> 00:37:34,119 - Lloyd? Abusive? 750 00:37:34,153 --> 00:37:37,923 His own children were outraged at the accusation. 751 00:37:37,956 --> 00:37:39,958 - That wasn't who my dad was. 752 00:37:40,059 --> 00:37:42,094 It was ludicrous to think that there was anything 753 00:37:42,127 --> 00:37:44,430 going on in the home with my dad and Judy. 754 00:37:44,463 --> 00:37:46,765 - No abuse. - No abuse. Nothing. 755 00:37:46,799 --> 00:37:48,467 Absolutely nothing. 756 00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:50,869 - But as the date for Judy's trial approached, 757 00:37:50,903 --> 00:37:53,739 her claim that Lloyd was an abuser hit the paper, 758 00:37:53,772 --> 00:37:55,874 became big news around Boise. 759 00:37:55,908 --> 00:37:58,811 Would Judy try a battered wife defense? 760 00:37:58,844 --> 00:38:01,447 Lloyd's children, furious and upset 761 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,782 about what they considered vicious libel, 762 00:38:03,816 --> 00:38:06,251 bit their tongues when the prosecutor told them, 763 00:38:06,285 --> 00:38:08,253 "Don't say a word in your father's defense. 764 00:38:08,287 --> 00:38:09,855 "The truth will come out at trial." 765 00:38:09,888 --> 00:38:12,191 Except it didn't. 766 00:38:12,224 --> 00:38:15,894 The trial didn't happen. Judy struck a deal... 767 00:38:15,928 --> 00:38:17,830 - Please state your name for the record. 768 00:38:17,863 --> 00:38:20,032 - Judy Rae Gough. 769 00:38:20,032 --> 00:38:24,303 - ...to plead guilty to second degree murder and confess, 770 00:38:24,336 --> 00:38:27,706 though the confession wasn't quite the story 771 00:38:27,740 --> 00:38:30,075 her daughter Kim remembered. 772 00:38:30,109 --> 00:38:31,744 - I-I had a rifle. 773 00:38:31,777 --> 00:38:33,645 I was sitting on the edge of the bed, 774 00:38:33,679 --> 00:38:35,647 and I had the gun across my lap. 775 00:38:35,681 --> 00:38:38,150 He was sitting on the floor by my dresser, 776 00:38:38,183 --> 00:38:40,219 kitty-corner from me. 777 00:38:40,252 --> 00:38:42,287 The gun went off. 778 00:38:42,321 --> 00:38:44,857 It was a terrible smell. 779 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,728 And he was dead. 780 00:38:49,762 --> 00:38:51,063 - When you say, "The gun went off," 781 00:38:51,063 --> 00:38:52,731 what do you mean by that? 782 00:38:52,765 --> 00:38:55,067 - Your honor, I-- 783 00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:57,403 I must have pulled the trigger. 784 00:38:57,436 --> 00:38:59,471 - Then the judge asked about her daughter Kim's role 785 00:38:59,505 --> 00:39:01,206 in the murder. 786 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:02,307 - So had you talked to your daughter 787 00:39:02,341 --> 00:39:04,910 about killing your husband? 788 00:39:05,010 --> 00:39:06,712 - You know, she said that I did. 789 00:39:06,745 --> 00:39:09,615 I don't really recall that part. 790 00:39:09,648 --> 00:39:11,717 - Did you call your daughter to come into the room? 791 00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:13,752 - I don't think so. 792 00:39:13,786 --> 00:39:15,721 I don't know why she was there. 793 00:39:15,754 --> 00:39:20,793 I know she was screaming, "Do it! Do it! Do it! 794 00:39:20,826 --> 00:39:23,429 "Just do it!" 795 00:39:23,462 --> 00:39:26,365 - Was she now accusing Kim here in court? 796 00:39:26,398 --> 00:39:29,168 Was she blaming her own daughter somehow? 797 00:39:29,201 --> 00:39:31,637 - For the past 30 years, she's telling you, 798 00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:34,773 "I'll do the right thing if it'll make you better. 799 00:39:34,807 --> 00:39:36,475 "I love you that much." 800 00:39:36,508 --> 00:39:40,045 And when zero hour came... 801 00:39:40,045 --> 00:39:42,247 - She threw you under a bus. 802 00:39:42,281 --> 00:39:45,050 - She left me there. 803 00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:47,586 - So the emotion is what, abandonment? 804 00:39:47,619 --> 00:39:49,288 - Sure. 805 00:39:49,321 --> 00:39:50,589 - You're still that little girl 806 00:39:50,622 --> 00:39:53,459 who's trying so hard to make her mom happy. 807 00:39:53,492 --> 00:39:56,528 - That's one of my last pieces of my puzzle I'm workin' on: 808 00:39:56,562 --> 00:39:58,864 Abandonment. 809 00:39:58,897 --> 00:40:01,834 - Abandonment is a family issue, apparently. 810 00:40:01,867 --> 00:40:04,603 Lloyd's first family struggled with it for 27 years 811 00:40:04,636 --> 00:40:07,673 until they discovered he didn't leave them at all. 812 00:40:07,706 --> 00:40:10,209 But now that they ached to defend him 813 00:40:10,242 --> 00:40:12,878 from a charge they believed to be a cruel lie, 814 00:40:12,911 --> 00:40:14,380 they could not, 815 00:40:14,413 --> 00:40:16,081 not without a trial. 816 00:40:16,115 --> 00:40:18,484 Had the prosecutor abandoned them now? 817 00:40:18,517 --> 00:40:22,855 - Why was it so important to you to see this go to trial? 818 00:40:22,888 --> 00:40:24,890 - This was my dad. 819 00:40:24,923 --> 00:40:27,426 This was the only thing that we could do for him. 820 00:40:27,459 --> 00:40:29,328 We felt the truth would come out. 821 00:40:29,361 --> 00:40:32,564 It would give him back his reputation. 822 00:40:32,598 --> 00:40:34,600 She had taken his life. 823 00:40:34,633 --> 00:40:37,269 Then she has to take his reputation, too? 824 00:40:37,302 --> 00:40:39,672 Hi. I'm Sandra K. Burke. 825 00:40:39,705 --> 00:40:43,008 - In March, 2009, Lloyd's kids returned to Idaho 826 00:40:43,042 --> 00:40:45,244 for Judy Gough's sentencing hearing. 827 00:40:45,277 --> 00:40:47,613 - We sat through her whole sentencing, 828 00:40:47,646 --> 00:40:49,615 and in the ending, 829 00:40:49,648 --> 00:40:55,354 the judge acknowledged us six kids and Judy as victims, 830 00:40:55,387 --> 00:40:58,290 never once mentioned my father. 831 00:40:58,323 --> 00:40:59,591 - Does this feel like justice? 832 00:40:59,625 --> 00:41:01,593 - No. 833 00:41:01,627 --> 00:41:05,731 It feels like they wanted to get this case over with, 834 00:41:05,764 --> 00:41:07,966 that it wasn't important to them. 835 00:41:08,067 --> 00:41:09,501 - Roger Bourne, then Chief Deputy 836 00:41:09,535 --> 00:41:12,071 of the Prosecutor's Office, defended the decision. 837 00:41:12,104 --> 00:41:15,541 - We thought that-- that going through a trial 838 00:41:15,574 --> 00:41:18,610 where Judy Gough gets to take the stand 839 00:41:18,644 --> 00:41:21,413 and vilify their father for hours at a time, 840 00:41:21,447 --> 00:41:24,917 would not be productive for them, and, um, 841 00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:26,952 would not be productive for the people. 842 00:41:26,985 --> 00:41:30,556 The risk, of course, is that a jury could acquit her. 843 00:41:30,589 --> 00:41:34,293 Uh, that, from our standpoint, that would be the worst thing. 844 00:41:34,326 --> 00:41:37,730 - The sentence for drugging and killing Lloyd? 845 00:41:37,763 --> 00:41:40,366 For having the kids bury him, dig him up, 846 00:41:40,399 --> 00:41:42,101 keep their awful secret? 847 00:41:42,101 --> 00:41:44,503 Ten years in prison. 848 00:41:44,536 --> 00:41:48,240 Judy has declined our interview requests, 849 00:41:48,273 --> 00:41:50,609 and Kim has written a book 850 00:41:50,642 --> 00:41:56,115 called "Unworthy: What Would You Do for Your Mother?" 851 00:41:56,148 --> 00:41:58,217 - How do you feel about her now? 852 00:41:58,250 --> 00:42:01,553 - I don't feel a whole lot about her now. 853 00:42:01,587 --> 00:42:03,922 She's dead to me, 854 00:42:03,956 --> 00:42:08,560 and I don't mean that angry and bitter. 855 00:42:10,529 --> 00:42:13,298 Because then I'd be like her, 856 00:42:13,332 --> 00:42:16,802 but that's not my mom. 857 00:42:16,835 --> 00:42:18,437 My mom left a long time ago. 858 00:42:21,740 --> 00:42:24,109 - The house on Clark Street sits empty, 859 00:42:24,143 --> 00:42:26,945 the backyard overgrown, 860 00:42:26,979 --> 00:42:31,617 the secret, the deadly secret, 861 00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:34,319 bound the family almost three decades. 862 00:42:34,353 --> 00:42:38,090 The unraveling tore it apart forever. 863 00:42:40,592 --> 00:42:44,096 - That's all for this edition of "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 864 00:42:44,096 --> 00:42:46,899 I'm Craig Melvin. Thank you for watching.