1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,033
ne                              

2
00:00:00,033 --> 00:00:00,066
ne:                             

3
00:00:00,066 --> 00:00:00,100
ne: Se                          

4
00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:00,133
ne: Secr                        

5
00:00:00,133 --> 00:00:00,166
ne: Secret                      

6
00:00:00,166 --> 00:00:00,200
ne: Secrets                     

7
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:00,233
ne: Secrets Un                  

8
00:00:00,233 --> 00:00:00,266
ne: Secrets Unco                

9
00:00:00,266 --> 00:00:00,300
ne: Secrets Uncove              

10
00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:00,333
ne: Secrets Uncovere            

11
00:00:00,333 --> 00:00:00,367
ne: Secrets Uncovered.          

12
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,348
          - A break-in          
   in the middle of the night.  

13
00:00:15,448 --> 00:00:17,283
 Stabbed multiple times.        

14
00:00:17,384 --> 00:00:19,219
  - I can see blood everywhere. 

15
00:00:19,319 --> 00:00:22,555
  It is a horrific crime scene. 

16
00:00:22,655 --> 00:00:25,892
   - One of the scariest cases  
 I've ever seen.                

17
00:00:25,992 --> 00:00:28,928
 - Annie participated in        
 pirate parties                 

18
00:00:29,029 --> 00:00:30,964
   or dungeon parties.          

19
00:00:31,064 --> 00:00:33,867
   - So we're way past          
   love triangle here.          

20
00:00:33,967 --> 00:00:37,170
  This is like love trapezoid.  
   - Love spider web.           

21
00:00:41,241 --> 00:00:43,109
   - There was a lot of anger.  

22
00:00:43,209 --> 00:00:46,546
 It started going, like,        
  sideways real quick.          

23
00:00:46,646 --> 00:00:49,115
- They agreed to a sum of       
   $10,000 to $50,000           

24
00:00:49,215 --> 00:00:50,450
  to commit the murder.         

25
00:00:58,291 --> 00:01:00,727
 Somebody left that home        
  to commit the murder.         

26
00:01:00,827 --> 00:01:02,929
  - Can you tell who's driving? 
 - Nope.                        

27
00:01:04,531 --> 00:01:08,268
- If I had known,               
  I could have done something.  

28
00:01:08,368 --> 00:01:10,870
Maybe that woman                
 would be alive.                

29
00:01:12,105 --> 00:01:18,111
   ♪♪                           

30
00:01:18,211 --> 00:01:21,815
 - Hello and welcome to         
  Dateline: Secrets Uncovered.  

31
00:01:21,915 --> 00:01:24,684
   Single mom                   
Annie Hester worked hard        

32
00:01:24,784 --> 00:01:26,686
 to support her daughter, Alice.

33
00:01:26,786 --> 00:01:29,823
In her downtime,                
  Annie liked fantasy,          

34
00:01:29,923 --> 00:01:31,224
role playing as a pirate,       

35
00:01:31,324 --> 00:01:34,727
but her 911 call                
 was very real.                 

36
00:01:34,828 --> 00:01:37,263
 Annie had been                 
   savagely attacked.           

37
00:01:37,363 --> 00:01:39,666
   The twisted trail of clues   
   took investigators           

38
00:01:39,766 --> 00:01:41,835
 down some unusual paths        

39
00:01:41,935 --> 00:01:46,840
 before they uncovered a secret 
 close to home.                 

40
00:01:46,940 --> 00:01:50,877
 Here's Josh Mankiewicz         
with The Undoing.               

41
00:01:50,977 --> 00:01:54,013
   ♪♪                           

42
00:01:54,114 --> 00:01:59,486
   - It was June 2016,          
 around 3:30 AM                 

43
00:01:59,586 --> 00:02:02,755
  and a car was roaring         
 down a highway                 

44
00:02:02,856 --> 00:02:05,458
   next to the Columbia River.  

45
00:02:05,558 --> 00:02:07,293
 Minutes before,                
  the police detective          

46
00:02:07,393 --> 00:02:11,097
  at the wheel, Aaron Turnage,  
   was like most of us          

47
00:02:11,197 --> 00:02:14,767
   in the middle of the night,  
  dead asleep.                  

48
00:02:14,868 --> 00:02:17,103
- And I got a phone call        
asking me to respond in.        

49
00:02:17,203 --> 00:02:19,205
It was an assault               
that had occurred               

50
00:02:19,305 --> 00:02:20,874
and that this was likely        
 gonna turn into                

51
00:02:20,974 --> 00:02:22,775
 a murder investigation.        

52
00:02:22,876 --> 00:02:25,712
- Detective Turnage lived       
  in Washington State.          

53
00:02:25,812 --> 00:02:28,248
  His job was across the river  

54
00:02:28,348 --> 00:02:31,851
 in the Portland, Oregon suburb 
   of Gresham.                  

55
00:02:31,951 --> 00:02:35,188
  And that was                  
 the scene of the crime.        

56
00:02:35,288 --> 00:02:37,023
   - If I'm getting the call,   
 that means I'm gonna be the one

57
00:02:37,123 --> 00:02:38,424
   leading the investigation.   

58
00:02:38,525 --> 00:02:40,827
   I'm trying to think          
   what I can do today          

59
00:02:40,927 --> 00:02:44,130
 to assist me five, six, eight, 
 ten years down the road        

60
00:02:44,230 --> 00:02:46,399
to make sure that we have       
a successful prosecution.       

61
00:02:46,499 --> 00:02:48,468
  - That's the way the criminal 
   justice system works today.  

62
00:02:48,568 --> 00:02:50,937
  You're thinking about         
not only investigation but trial

63
00:02:51,037 --> 00:02:52,705
and then eventual appeal.       

64
00:02:52,805 --> 00:02:54,674
  - You have to start thinking  
   about that on the front end  

65
00:02:54,774 --> 00:02:56,609
  because if you don't,         
 you'll never get there         

66
00:02:56,709 --> 00:02:58,611
on the back end.                

67
00:02:58,711 --> 00:03:01,414
   - As it turned out,          
 his thoughts that night        

68
00:03:01,514 --> 00:03:04,017
  foretold the future.          

69
00:03:04,117 --> 00:03:07,253
  And 30 minutes after          
he'd been startled awake,       

70
00:03:07,353 --> 00:03:10,323
Detective Turnage arrived       
   at the crime scene,          

71
00:03:10,423 --> 00:03:14,694
   a ground floor unit          
  in the East Park apartments,  

72
00:03:14,794 --> 00:03:18,131
  Paramedics had already taken  
   the victim to the hospital,  

73
00:03:18,231 --> 00:03:21,234
a woman in her mid-30's.        

74
00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:25,738
 Her name was Anastasia Hester, 
 known as Annie.                

75
00:03:25,838 --> 00:03:27,740
   When you get there,          
   what do the first officers   

76
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,275
   who were on scene tell you?  

77
00:03:29,375 --> 00:03:32,445
 - Uh, they told me that        
  the front door was unlocked,  

78
00:03:32,545 --> 00:03:34,914
   and when they went inside,   
  they immediately saw          

79
00:03:35,014 --> 00:03:36,316
   bloody shoe prints.          

80
00:03:36,416 --> 00:03:40,386
   - Carefully, those officers  
  sidestepped the shoe prints.  

81
00:03:40,486 --> 00:03:44,324
   - And they could see Annie   
laying down on the floor        

82
00:03:44,424 --> 00:03:45,959
towards the rear                
of the apartment.               

83
00:03:46,059 --> 00:03:49,462
  - When police arrive,         
  Annie's still alive?          

84
00:03:49,562 --> 00:03:50,763
   - Correct.                   

85
00:03:50,863 --> 00:03:54,267
  - So how to get Annie         
  to a hospital                 

86
00:03:54,367 --> 00:03:58,204
   without contaminating that   
   certain to be key evidence   

87
00:03:58,304 --> 00:03:59,572
  near the front door?          

88
00:03:59,672 --> 00:04:02,709
  Because those footprints say  
 the killer left                

89
00:04:02,809 --> 00:04:04,711
 through the front door.        
   - Correct.                   

90
00:04:04,811 --> 00:04:07,380
   The determination was made   
  that they're gonna take Annie 

91
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,316
  out of the rear sliding door  
   of this apartment.           

92
00:04:10,416 --> 00:04:12,986
 So the next set                
 of responding officers         

93
00:04:13,086 --> 00:04:15,488
  tore down a six foot          
  wooden fence,                 

94
00:04:15,588 --> 00:04:17,657
  and they were able to         
   extricate Annie out          

95
00:04:17,757 --> 00:04:20,093
 and get her out                
to medical care.                

96
00:04:20,193 --> 00:04:22,695
 - It was there,                
  behind the apartment          

97
00:04:22,795 --> 00:04:27,066
 that the detectives saw        
 a back window to Annie's place.

98
00:04:27,166 --> 00:04:28,568
   - On the ground is           
 a cinder block,                

99
00:04:28,668 --> 00:04:31,471
  and it appeared that          
  cinder block was used         

100
00:04:31,571 --> 00:04:35,308
 to gain access to that         
elevated window.                

101
00:04:35,408 --> 00:04:38,911
   - The window led to          
 the bedroom of a child.        

102
00:04:39,012 --> 00:04:40,813
   The detective went inside.   

103
00:04:40,913 --> 00:04:43,149
   You see a child's bedroom,   
  but no child.                 

104
00:04:43,249 --> 00:04:44,350
   - Correct.                   

105
00:04:44,450 --> 00:04:46,786
 The initial thought was        
  a kidnapping or an abduction  

106
00:04:46,886 --> 00:04:47,920
   that had occurred.           

107
00:04:48,021 --> 00:04:50,156
 So there was immediate efforts 
   to try to identify           

108
00:04:50,256 --> 00:04:51,524
who the child was               

109
00:04:51,624 --> 00:04:55,395
 and then try to determine, uh, 
  if the child was safe or not. 

110
00:04:55,495 --> 00:04:57,864
   - Detective Turnage          
quickly made some calls.        

111
00:04:57,964 --> 00:04:59,699
   The girl was Alice.          

112
00:04:59,799 --> 00:05:03,336
She was Annie's daughter        
and just four years old.        

113
00:05:03,436 --> 00:05:05,571
  - That's when we were able to 
  identify that Matthew Hester  

114
00:05:05,672 --> 00:05:06,906
 was her father.                

115
00:05:07,006 --> 00:05:09,509
And we started looking to       
   try to contact him           

116
00:05:09,609 --> 00:05:11,344
  and find out                  
 if he had his daughter.        

117
00:05:11,444 --> 00:05:13,579
- Some good news.               
They found Matt.                

118
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,416
He had Alice at his place       
  in Portland.                  

119
00:05:16,516 --> 00:05:19,385
 This was like a custody        
  sharing arrangement.          

120
00:05:19,485 --> 00:05:22,121
 And that night was Matt's night
 to have Alice.                 

121
00:05:22,221 --> 00:05:23,423
   - That is correct.           

122
00:05:23,523 --> 00:05:28,261
- Once you realize that Alice is
  not in any danger, now what?  

123
00:05:28,361 --> 00:05:31,698
- So now we have to start       
   taking a look at the scene.  

124
00:05:31,798 --> 00:05:34,300
   - The apartment had          
only one bedroom,               

125
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,035
   the little girl's.           

126
00:05:36,135 --> 00:05:37,737
  Annie, it turned out,         
 had been found                 

127
00:05:37,837 --> 00:05:41,441
on the living room floor        
   next to a sofa bed,          

128
00:05:41,541 --> 00:05:44,010
   where, by the looks of it,   
  she had been sleeping         

129
00:05:44,110 --> 00:05:46,245
 when she was attacked.         

130
00:05:46,346 --> 00:05:48,548
  - It is a horrific and very-- 

131
00:05:48,648 --> 00:05:50,583
 obviously very violent         
  crime scene.                  

132
00:05:50,683 --> 00:05:52,552
 - While you're                 
  examining the scene,          

133
00:05:52,652 --> 00:05:55,488
   you get a call that          
  Annie didn't survive.         

134
00:05:55,588 --> 00:05:57,223
- That's correct.               

135
00:05:57,323 --> 00:06:01,994
   - Annie Hester had           
been murdered at only 34.       

136
00:06:02,095 --> 00:06:05,732
   And steps from where Annie   
  had been found on the floor,  

137
00:06:05,832 --> 00:06:10,536
   the detectives saw a knife,  
 a folding pocket knife.        

138
00:06:10,636 --> 00:06:15,074
  And near the kitchen,         
 two more knives, bigger knives.

139
00:06:15,174 --> 00:06:18,678
  It looked as if they had once 
  resided in the butcher block  

140
00:06:18,778 --> 00:06:20,613
   in Annie's kitchen.          

141
00:06:20,713 --> 00:06:23,449
   I would guess that           
 in a murder like that,         

142
00:06:23,549 --> 00:06:26,119
you might expect to find        
a murder weapon.                

143
00:06:26,219 --> 00:06:28,888
 But not three of them.         
   - Correct.                   

144
00:06:28,988 --> 00:06:31,491
 It's the only time I've seen it
  where killers                 

145
00:06:31,591 --> 00:06:32,992
  went into the kitchen         
   and got two butcher knives   

146
00:06:33,092 --> 00:06:35,261
 to finish the stabbing.        

147
00:06:35,361 --> 00:06:38,865
  - It was an assault so savage 
that a fact the detective       

148
00:06:38,965 --> 00:06:43,002
would later learn               
 still troubles him to this day.

149
00:06:43,102 --> 00:06:44,804
 What does it say to you        
   when the murderer tries to   

150
00:06:44,904 --> 00:06:46,239
   cut the victim's head off?   

151
00:06:46,339 --> 00:06:48,474
   - The amount of passion and  
 intensity in this crime        

152
00:06:48,574 --> 00:06:50,443
  is very, very unique.         

153
00:06:50,543 --> 00:06:52,912
   - The rage,                  
 the bloody shoe prints,        

154
00:06:53,012 --> 00:06:56,082
   the knives,                  
the cinder block.               

155
00:06:56,182 --> 00:06:59,419
  So much evidence to consider. 
 Using the cinder block         

156
00:06:59,519 --> 00:07:02,555
 to take the air conditioner out
   and go in that way           

157
00:07:02,655 --> 00:07:05,892
suggests that Annie maybe       
 didn't know her killer.        

158
00:07:05,992 --> 00:07:09,128
 Or at least didn't let them in 
 through the front door.        

159
00:07:09,228 --> 00:07:10,329
 - I agree. Yes.                

160
00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:13,599
  - That kind of fights         
 the whole rage, passion angle. 

161
00:07:13,699 --> 00:07:17,336
I mean, somebody random,        
   less likely to have          

162
00:07:17,437 --> 00:07:20,940
  all this fury against Annie.  
- How so?                       

163
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,075
  - A murder committed          
 with that much passion,        

164
00:07:23,176 --> 00:07:24,644
   that says personal.          

165
00:07:24,744 --> 00:07:26,979
But somebody who goes in        
through a window,               

166
00:07:27,079 --> 00:07:29,282
   that suggests not personal.  

167
00:07:29,382 --> 00:07:30,349
   - Yeah, it could be random.  

168
00:07:30,450 --> 00:07:31,884
You know, maybe they were       
   invited on one day,          

169
00:07:31,984 --> 00:07:33,052
   but not invited the second.  

170
00:07:33,152 --> 00:07:34,520
 So the second day they came in 
   through the window           

171
00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:36,956
 to commit the act of violence. 

172
00:07:37,056 --> 00:07:39,392
- Before long, Detective Turnage
 left the scene                 

173
00:07:39,492 --> 00:07:40,993
   to hold a briefing           
  with his team                 

174
00:07:41,093 --> 00:07:43,262
 at the Gresham                 
   Police Department.           

175
00:07:43,362 --> 00:07:46,432
  That's when he heard          
  the recording of the 911 call 

176
00:07:46,532 --> 00:07:49,302
   that had led police          
to the apartment.               

177
00:07:49,402 --> 00:07:51,704
The call was not                
from a neighbor,                

178
00:07:51,804 --> 00:07:54,006
not from a family member.       

179
00:07:54,106 --> 00:07:57,109
It came from the victim herself.

180
00:07:57,210 --> 00:08:02,615
  A 911 call capturing          
 the last words of Annie Hester.

181
00:08:03,783 --> 00:08:07,420
  - A desperate and dying Annie 
  begs for help                 

182
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,457
and gives police a gut wrenching
 account of her attack.         

183
00:08:11,557 --> 00:08:12,992
  Coming up...                  

184
00:08:20,533 --> 00:08:22,101
 - I don't think                
   there are words to describe  

185
00:08:22,201 --> 00:08:24,604
 the level of intensity         
in that 911 call.               

186
00:08:24,704 --> 00:08:28,608
 - And the killer leaves        
   a terrifying calling card.   

187
00:08:28,708 --> 00:08:30,076
  Some sort of message?         
   - Could have been.           

188
00:08:30,176 --> 00:08:31,744
  That's what we were thinking. 

189
00:08:31,844 --> 00:08:34,780
- When Dateline:                
  Secrets Uncovered continues.  

190
00:08:36,516 --> 00:08:36,582
   ♪                            

191
00:08:36,582 --> 00:08:41,888
   ♪♪                           

192
00:08:41,988 --> 00:08:44,290
 Detective Aaron Turnage        
 did not have to go far         

193
00:08:44,390 --> 00:08:47,226
  from Annie Hester's apartment 
 to gather with                 

194
00:08:47,326 --> 00:08:50,062
   his team of investigators.   

195
00:08:50,162 --> 00:08:52,231
  The crime scene is only about 
 10 blocks from                 

196
00:08:52,331 --> 00:08:55,701
 the Gresham Police Department. 
 - It's in the heart of Gresham.

197
00:08:55,801 --> 00:08:57,970
 It's close to schools,         
it's close to restaurants       

198
00:08:58,070 --> 00:08:59,205
 and businesses.                

199
00:08:59,305 --> 00:09:03,009
 Um, this is not a typical place
  where we see                  

200
00:09:03,109 --> 00:09:05,578
  violent crimes erupt          
 in the city of Gresham.        

201
00:09:05,678 --> 00:09:08,548
- And it didn't take long       
  for news of a murder          

202
00:09:08,648 --> 00:09:11,584
   on uncommon ground           
to spread across                

203
00:09:11,684 --> 00:09:13,319
   the Portland area.           

204
00:09:13,419 --> 00:09:15,154
 - Police say the woman         
stabbed at the apartments       

205
00:09:15,254 --> 00:09:16,856
was in her 30's.                

206
00:09:16,956 --> 00:09:20,026
 - I was just crying and howling
 and, you know,                 

207
00:09:20,126 --> 00:09:22,562
  just like an animal.          

208
00:09:22,662 --> 00:09:26,666
 - Nicole Palazuelos considered 
 Annie her best friend.         

209
00:09:26,766 --> 00:09:28,501
  They worked together          
at a call center                

210
00:09:28,601 --> 00:09:31,170
   where Annie trained Nicole.  

211
00:09:31,270 --> 00:09:33,472
 You were a little scared of her
at first.                       

212
00:09:33,573 --> 00:09:34,507
   [chuckles]                   

213
00:09:34,607 --> 00:09:37,276
  - Yeah, she was intimidating  
at first because                

214
00:09:37,376 --> 00:09:40,813
 if you didn't do your job well,
  she would call you out on it. 

215
00:09:40,913 --> 00:09:45,351
I never met anybody who could do
  so many jobs at once          

216
00:09:45,451 --> 00:09:47,653
  and do them all well.         

217
00:09:47,753 --> 00:09:50,590
   - Annie had always had that  
  take charge attitude,         

218
00:09:50,690 --> 00:09:52,858
as the big sister in her family.

219
00:09:52,959 --> 00:09:56,796
  Her parents divorced          
  when she was just 7.          

220
00:09:56,896 --> 00:10:01,233
  As she grew, Annie developed  
  a reputation for reliability. 

221
00:10:01,334 --> 00:10:03,970
  She worked at an after school 
  program for children          

222
00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:06,172
   before starting at           
the call center,                

223
00:10:06,272 --> 00:10:09,075
  where she rose to supervisor. 

224
00:10:09,175 --> 00:10:13,279
In 2008, when she was 26,       
she married Matt Hester.        

225
00:10:13,379 --> 00:10:16,182
 He worked as a salesman        
  at a wireless store.          

226
00:10:16,282 --> 00:10:19,619
 Matt loved video games.        

227
00:10:19,719 --> 00:10:22,922
  Half sister Tanya and         
   sister in law Diana          

228
00:10:23,022 --> 00:10:26,559
say Annie was focused on        
  a more serious game.          

229
00:10:26,659 --> 00:10:31,998
 - She had told my husband that 
 he was winning the game of life

230
00:10:32,098 --> 00:10:34,867
because he was the first        
  to move into a house,         

231
00:10:34,967 --> 00:10:38,804
to buy a new car,               
 to get married, to have a kid. 

232
00:10:38,904 --> 00:10:41,407
   - Annie saw this as          
some kind of competition.       

233
00:10:41,507 --> 00:10:44,744
 - Yeah.                        
  - She felt, being the oldest, 

234
00:10:44,844 --> 00:10:48,147
that those things should        
  come to her first, naturally. 

235
00:10:48,247 --> 00:10:51,651
  - And when you feel that way, 
   that's when people settle.   

236
00:10:51,751 --> 00:10:53,219
- Mm-hmm.                       
 - Yeah.                        

237
00:10:53,319 --> 00:10:56,722
- Annie Hester was not the first
   woman in history to settle   

238
00:10:56,822 --> 00:11:00,292
 and marry a man                
 her family wasn't crazy about. 

239
00:11:00,393 --> 00:11:04,196
And at least for a while,       
  it did work.                  

240
00:11:04,296 --> 00:11:07,366
- She wanted to feel like       
 she was staying                

241
00:11:07,466 --> 00:11:09,435
  with everybody else.          

242
00:11:09,535 --> 00:11:11,504
- And three years               
   into the marriage,           

243
00:11:11,604 --> 00:11:13,539
   Annie finally was,           

244
00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:16,275
   when Annie and Matt          
   had a little girl.           

245
00:11:16,375 --> 00:11:18,511
   Did having the baby          
   live up to the expectation   

246
00:11:18,611 --> 00:11:20,680
   of having the baby           
   for Annie?                   

247
00:11:20,780 --> 00:11:23,315
- She was ecstatic having Alice.

248
00:11:23,416 --> 00:11:26,318
  - Her world revolved          
  around Alice.                 

249
00:11:26,419 --> 00:11:28,854
  - The same could not be said  
  for her relationship          

250
00:11:28,954 --> 00:11:30,489
with her husband.               

251
00:11:30,589 --> 00:11:32,725
Less than a year                
  after Alice was born,         

252
00:11:32,825 --> 00:11:37,496
Matt and Annie divorced,        
 and Annie became a single mom. 

253
00:11:37,596 --> 00:11:40,433
 - She'd always make sure to go 
and get their photos done       

254
00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:41,834
for Easter and Christmas.       

255
00:11:41,934 --> 00:11:45,304
  They always had cute outfits  
   and her hair done up and--   

256
00:11:45,404 --> 00:11:47,773
  - Sounds like she was really  
devoted to her daughter.        

257
00:11:47,873 --> 00:11:49,141
 - Oh, she was.                 

258
00:11:49,241 --> 00:11:52,344
   - Matt and Annie worked out  
 a peaceful custody arrangement 

259
00:11:52,445 --> 00:11:54,180
   with Alice.                  

260
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,349
   And in addition to           
 her 9 to 5 weekday job,        

261
00:11:57,450 --> 00:12:00,519
Annie started a side job        
as a face painter               

262
00:12:00,619 --> 00:12:02,254
  with her best friend, Nicole. 

263
00:12:02,354 --> 00:12:04,356
   - We were working together   
 on the weekends                

264
00:12:04,457 --> 00:12:06,492
  that she didn't have          
  her daughter,                 

265
00:12:06,592 --> 00:12:08,294
 and she worked so hard,        

266
00:12:08,394 --> 00:12:12,798
   and she really worked every  
 opportunity that she could, um,

267
00:12:12,898 --> 00:12:16,769
to make the extra money.        
She did such a great job.       

268
00:12:16,869 --> 00:12:19,805
   - Along with Annie's life,   
 that all ended                 

269
00:12:19,905 --> 00:12:24,110
 early one morning in June 2016.

270
00:12:24,210 --> 00:12:27,113
 It was now Detective Turnage's 
 job to find out                

271
00:12:27,213 --> 00:12:30,616
   who'd killed Annie and why.  

272
00:12:30,716 --> 00:12:32,852
 In the first few hours         
  of daylight,                  

273
00:12:32,952 --> 00:12:34,987
 officers from the scene        
   were reporting back          

274
00:12:35,087 --> 00:12:38,457
to the police department        
with what they'd learned.       

275
00:12:38,557 --> 00:12:43,262
  There were, as it turned out, 
 plenty of potential witnesses. 

276
00:12:43,362 --> 00:12:45,364
  - We found multiple neighbors 
   saying essentially           

277
00:12:45,464 --> 00:12:46,665
 the same thing.                

278
00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:50,736
  About 11:00 PM they hear, uh, 
  sounds of a woman screaming.  

279
00:12:50,836 --> 00:12:54,073
   Somebody else hears a thud   
 on the outside of the building,

280
00:12:54,173 --> 00:12:55,441
 directly below.                

281
00:12:55,541 --> 00:12:58,344
  Another witness hears         
 what sounds like a conversation

282
00:12:58,444 --> 00:12:59,512
  and moaning.                  

283
00:12:59,612 --> 00:13:02,515
And that person actually        
  turned up their bathroom fan  

284
00:13:02,615 --> 00:13:05,251
 and turned on the music        
 to drown out the sound.        

285
00:13:05,351 --> 00:13:10,656
- And four hours later...       
 - At about 3:00 in the morning,

286
00:13:10,756 --> 00:13:14,627
another set of witnesses        
 are hearing a woman screaming, 

287
00:13:14,727 --> 00:13:17,396
  uh, a door slam, a car leave. 

288
00:13:17,496 --> 00:13:23,068
  - Okay, two things from that. 
 One, nobody calls 911.         

289
00:13:23,169 --> 00:13:25,137
 - Not one neighbor called 911. 

290
00:13:25,237 --> 00:13:29,508
  - Secondly...                 
 So this attack took four hours?

291
00:13:29,608 --> 00:13:31,977
 - Yeah, a-about                
three and a half.               

292
00:13:32,077 --> 00:13:36,015
 - So this isn't just a murder. 
This is torture.                

293
00:13:36,115 --> 00:13:37,483
   - This is torture.           

294
00:13:37,583 --> 00:13:41,554
- And then Turnage finally heard
 who did call for help.         

295
00:13:41,654 --> 00:13:45,491
  You may well find it          
 wrenchingly hard to listen to. 

296
00:13:45,591 --> 00:13:48,794
Detective Turnage               
 definitely did.                

297
00:13:48,894 --> 00:13:52,898
 - I don't think there are words
to describe, um,                

298
00:13:52,998 --> 00:13:56,001
 the level of intensity         
in that 911 call.               

299
00:13:56,101 --> 00:14:01,307
- That's because the call       
  was made by Annie at 2:59 AM. 

300
00:14:01,407 --> 00:14:05,377
 It's a chilling six minute long
  cry for help                  

301
00:14:05,477 --> 00:14:07,079
 made shortly after her attacker

302
00:14:07,179 --> 00:14:09,782
left those bloody               
   shoe prints behind           

303
00:14:09,882 --> 00:14:11,050
 on the way out.                

304
00:14:46,485 --> 00:14:49,588
   When you hear that           
  she doesn't know this person, 

305
00:14:49,688 --> 00:14:51,290
 what's that say to you?        

306
00:14:51,390 --> 00:14:52,858
   - I believe there's          
 an element of surprise.        

307
00:14:52,958 --> 00:14:57,696
   When the attack took place,  
 I know that Annie is sleeping. 

308
00:14:57,796 --> 00:15:01,133
 And if she's taken by surprise,
 i-it makes sense to me.        

309
00:15:01,233 --> 00:15:03,135
   She can't identify           
  who her attacker is.          

310
00:15:09,008 --> 00:15:11,110
  - At Annie's autopsy,         
   Turnage understood           

311
00:15:11,210 --> 00:15:13,979
   why Annie was in such pain.  

312
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:16,482
  There were more than          
 60 stab wounds,                

313
00:15:16,582 --> 00:15:19,018
  some as deep as eight inches. 

314
00:15:19,118 --> 00:15:23,656
  And strangely, something was  
carved into her shoulder.       

315
00:15:23,756 --> 00:15:27,326
   - It was a V, an X,          
   and then another V.          

316
00:15:27,426 --> 00:15:29,228
 And that's not a Roman numeral,

317
00:15:29,328 --> 00:15:30,963
 but that's what                
 it looked like.                

318
00:15:31,063 --> 00:15:33,799
 - Some sort of message,        
 some sort of signature.        

319
00:15:33,899 --> 00:15:35,567
   - Could have been.           
  That's what we were thinking. 

320
00:15:35,668 --> 00:15:37,970
One of the things that haunts me
 about this case                

321
00:15:38,070 --> 00:15:42,107
is just the level of pain       
that Annie had to endure        

322
00:15:42,207 --> 00:15:43,943
   for three and a half hours.  

323
00:15:44,043 --> 00:15:45,544
  And still, Annie has          
 the wherewithal                

324
00:15:45,644 --> 00:15:48,547
  to fight for herself,         
call 911,                       

325
00:15:48,647 --> 00:15:52,151
  and give out the information  
  to get law enforcement there. 

326
00:15:52,251 --> 00:15:54,019
- It was time for               
Detective Turnage               

327
00:15:54,119 --> 00:15:56,288
  to start getting face to face 

328
00:15:56,388 --> 00:15:59,892
with those who might know       
who'd done this to Annie.       

329
00:16:02,194 --> 00:16:03,495
 - Coming up...                 

330
00:16:03,595 --> 00:16:06,899
  - At this point we're         
  investigating this homicide.  

331
00:16:06,999 --> 00:16:11,403
- A two-timing ex-husband       
is always a good place to start.

332
00:16:15,541 --> 00:16:18,510
While Matt's current wife       
vouched for him.                

333
00:16:18,610 --> 00:16:21,747
 - Any chance that, uh, Matthew 
could have gone anywhere        

334
00:16:21,847 --> 00:16:23,482
   sometime during the night?   
   - Oh, God.                   

335
00:16:23,582 --> 00:16:25,751
  Every time he moves,          
 he wakes me up.                

336
00:16:25,851 --> 00:16:28,854
- When Dateline:                
  Secrets Uncovered continues.  

337
00:16:29,788 --> 00:16:29,855
   ♪                            

338
00:16:29,855 --> 00:16:35,094
   ♪♪                           

339
00:16:35,194 --> 00:16:37,796
 - Start close.                 
  Close to the victim.          

340
00:16:37,896 --> 00:16:39,732
 That's in every                
  homicide detective's          

341
00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:42,534
 Bible of murder investigation. 

342
00:16:42,634 --> 00:16:45,070
 And since Annie wasn't married,

343
00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:48,674
 Detective Turnage started with 
  the next best thing.          

344
00:16:48,774 --> 00:16:51,610
   Her former husband,          
  Matt Hester.                  

345
00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:52,344
  - Yeah, go ahead and          
  have a seat.                  

346
00:16:52,444 --> 00:16:53,245
  I'll be with you in a minute. 

347
00:16:53,345 --> 00:16:55,714
 - Matt was 35,                 
   but as you can see,          

348
00:16:55,814 --> 00:16:58,550
he moved as if he               
were much older.                

349
00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:00,152
 Thanks, he maintained,         

350
00:17:00,252 --> 00:17:02,988
   to some undiagnosed          
medical problems                

351
00:17:03,088 --> 00:17:06,258
that had left him               
 in nearly constant pain        

352
00:17:06,358 --> 00:17:10,329
and unable to work for a living.

353
00:17:10,429 --> 00:17:12,798
When he comes in,               
 how does he strike you?        

354
00:17:12,898 --> 00:17:14,466
  - Matt struck me as an actor. 

355
00:17:14,566 --> 00:17:16,902
 And he needed an Academy Award 
 for the acting job that he did 

356
00:17:17,002 --> 00:17:19,238
  when he showed up at          
 the police department that day.

357
00:17:19,338 --> 00:17:21,940
 - And so I guess, um, obviously
 I told you at the house        

358
00:17:22,041 --> 00:17:25,978
 that your ex wife is deceased. 
 - But you didn't say...        

359
00:17:26,078 --> 00:17:27,246
  - Didn't say how or anything. 

360
00:17:27,346 --> 00:17:28,947
  We'll talk about that         
in a minute or two, um...       

361
00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:30,082
 - Okay.                        

362
00:17:30,182 --> 00:17:32,751
   - If you think Matt seemed   
 a little disinterested         

363
00:17:32,851 --> 00:17:36,555
  in learning how the mother of 
  his daughter had been killed, 

364
00:17:36,655 --> 00:17:38,757
   you are not alone.           

365
00:17:38,857 --> 00:17:41,427
 Minutes later,                 
   another detective told Matt  

366
00:17:41,527 --> 00:17:45,998
   what had happened to Annie   
 and about her 911 call.        

367
00:17:46,098 --> 00:17:47,633
 - She said that                
  she had been stabbed.         

368
00:17:47,733 --> 00:17:49,735
 Officers responded down there. 

369
00:17:49,835 --> 00:17:52,204
Um, she had been injured.       

370
00:17:52,304 --> 00:17:54,339
   She was transported          
 to the hospital                

371
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,977
   and she was pronounced dead  
at the hospital.                

372
00:17:59,078 --> 00:18:00,813
   And at this point,           
we're investigating this        

373
00:18:00,913 --> 00:18:02,214
  as homicide.                  

374
00:18:02,314 --> 00:18:04,783
 Did your wife say any--        
   Ex-wife say anything about   

375
00:18:04,883 --> 00:18:06,852
having any problems with anyone?

376
00:18:06,952 --> 00:18:08,887
  - I don't talk about          
   her personal life.           

377
00:18:08,987 --> 00:18:12,491
 - Okay.                        
- Then, as detectives do,       

378
00:18:12,591 --> 00:18:14,927
they started locking Matt       
  into a story                  

379
00:18:15,027 --> 00:18:18,097
  about his history with Annie. 

380
00:18:18,197 --> 00:18:19,998
   - When did you and           
 Ann first meet?                

381
00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:23,936
   - Uh, we first met in 1999   
through a mutual friend.        

382
00:18:24,036 --> 00:18:27,406
 - Not long after that meeting, 
  there was a wedding.          

383
00:18:27,506 --> 00:18:31,076
   Not between Matt and Annie.  
He married someone else.        

384
00:18:31,176 --> 00:18:34,012
That union lasted               
 just a couple of years.        

385
00:18:34,113 --> 00:18:37,082
- Why did you guys get divorced?
   - I cheated on her.          

386
00:18:37,182 --> 00:18:40,018
 - Okay.                        
 - So it was less than two years

387
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,323
 after his first divorce        
   that in 2008, Matt,          

388
00:18:44,423 --> 00:18:48,727
   admittedly on the rebound,   
 married Annie.                 

389
00:18:48,827 --> 00:18:53,332
   And then three years later,  
 in 2011, after Alice was born, 

390
00:18:53,432 --> 00:18:56,802
   this marriage, too,          
 was dissolving.                

391
00:18:56,902 --> 00:18:58,937
  - I ended up cheating on her. 
- Mm-hmm.                       

392
00:18:59,037 --> 00:19:01,073
 - I'm not very good at         
this relationship thing.        

393
00:19:01,173 --> 00:19:03,242
 - "I'm not good at this        
  relationship thing."          

394
00:19:03,342 --> 00:19:06,311
 Is that kind of candor unusual 
 in a police interview,         

395
00:19:06,411 --> 00:19:07,946
  particularly when the person  
  you're talking about          

396
00:19:08,046 --> 00:19:10,582
 has now been murdered?         

397
00:19:10,682 --> 00:19:12,217
 - It is, yeah.                 

398
00:19:12,317 --> 00:19:13,852
   - He was good at one thing.  

399
00:19:13,952 --> 00:19:18,223
   By many accounts, Matt was   
a loving father to Alice.       

400
00:19:18,323 --> 00:19:19,591
  - I love being a dad.         

401
00:19:19,691 --> 00:19:22,194
- And for about two years       
   after the divorce,           

402
00:19:22,294 --> 00:19:26,365
 Matt and Annie amicably shared 
   custody of their daughter.   

403
00:19:26,465 --> 00:19:31,069
  Then in 2014,                 
Matt married for the third time,

404
00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:33,372
to a woman named Angela.        

405
00:19:33,472 --> 00:19:36,008
  She had children of her own.  

406
00:19:36,108 --> 00:19:38,710
  It wasn't long before         
  a custody and support battle  

407
00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:41,346
began over Alice.               

408
00:19:41,446 --> 00:19:43,815
 - How are your feelings        
  towards Ann?                  

409
00:19:43,916 --> 00:19:44,983
 [sighs]                        

410
00:19:45,083 --> 00:19:47,319
- I'm mostly indifferent.       
I just--                        

411
00:19:47,419 --> 00:19:49,922
 I want to deal with her        
 as little as possible.         

412
00:19:50,022 --> 00:19:52,224
- Feelings are one thing.       

413
00:19:52,324 --> 00:19:55,727
   For the moment, police had   
more immediate questions.       

414
00:19:55,827 --> 00:19:58,163
  - So what were you and Angela 
doing last night?               

415
00:19:58,263 --> 00:19:59,398
   - Sleeping.                  
 - Okay.                        

416
00:19:59,498 --> 00:20:01,066
  Do you know what time         
you went to bed?                

417
00:20:01,166 --> 00:20:03,268
  - Um, I usually get into bed  
  around 10:00.                 

418
00:20:03,368 --> 00:20:05,237
 - Okay.                        
 And was Angela with you        

419
00:20:05,337 --> 00:20:07,072
 or was she staying up,         
   doing other things?          

420
00:20:07,172 --> 00:20:08,207
- She was with me in bed.       

421
00:20:08,307 --> 00:20:11,076
- They had four children        
under their roof.               

422
00:20:11,176 --> 00:20:13,779
There was Alice,                
who was there part time,        

423
00:20:13,879 --> 00:20:18,116
 as well as three children from 
  Angela's previous marriages.  

424
00:20:18,217 --> 00:20:20,385
   Those kids were a handful,   
   Matt said,                   

425
00:20:20,485 --> 00:20:23,155
and he and Angela               
 were worn out.                 

426
00:20:23,255 --> 00:20:26,158
  She also hadn't been          
  feeling well.                 

427
00:20:26,258 --> 00:20:29,027
   - Have a seat right there.   

428
00:20:29,127 --> 00:20:30,862
- In another room               
   just down the hall,          

429
00:20:30,963 --> 00:20:33,165
  Angela was being questioned.  

430
00:20:33,265 --> 00:20:34,967
   Like Matt,                   
 Angela told detectives         

431
00:20:35,067 --> 00:20:37,536
  they were in bed by 10:00 PM, 

432
00:20:37,636 --> 00:20:40,372
although she said               
  they were both awake.         

433
00:20:40,472 --> 00:20:44,543
   Matt scrolling on his phone  
 and Angela watching TV.        

434
00:20:44,643 --> 00:20:46,411
  - I was on the verge          
of falling asleep               

435
00:20:46,511 --> 00:20:49,681
 to some Criminal Minds.        
  - When you guys are sleeping, 

436
00:20:49,781 --> 00:20:52,050
 who gets the inside and        
  who gets the outside?         

437
00:20:52,150 --> 00:20:53,352
   - Matt's against the wall.   

438
00:20:53,452 --> 00:20:56,655
 - Any chance that, uh, Matthew 
could have gone anywhere        

439
00:20:56,755 --> 00:20:58,957
  s-sometime during the night?  
   - Oh, God.                   

440
00:20:59,057 --> 00:21:00,459
  Every time he moves,          
 he wakes me up,                

441
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:02,227
   so it's not a possibility.   
 - Okay.                        

442
00:21:02,327 --> 00:21:04,129
 - And I sleep, like, literally 
  right up against him          

443
00:21:04,229 --> 00:21:05,330
  in his arms.                  

444
00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:08,100
  - If he would have gotten up  
 out of bed, you would--        

445
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,801
   You would know it?           
   - Most definitely.           

446
00:21:09,901 --> 00:21:13,705
- When the interviews were over,
 Angela and Matt both willingly 

447
00:21:13,805 --> 00:21:16,808
  handed over their cell phones 
   because police said          

448
00:21:16,908 --> 00:21:20,846
   they wanted to download GPS  
 and other information.         

449
00:21:20,946 --> 00:21:24,283
 Matt's alibi is Angela,        
   and Angela's alibi is Matt.  

450
00:21:24,383 --> 00:21:26,752
   - Correct.                   
   - That's not much.           

451
00:21:26,852 --> 00:21:29,488
   But it was                   
the middle of the night,        

452
00:21:29,588 --> 00:21:33,792
   so police wondered who else  
   could alibi Angela and Matt  

453
00:21:33,892 --> 00:21:35,927
the night of the murder?        

454
00:21:36,028 --> 00:21:40,265
  And it turned out there were  
   plenty of people who could.  

455
00:21:41,867 --> 00:21:43,068
 - Coming up...                 

456
00:21:43,168 --> 00:21:45,103
- Yeah, our relationship        
   is a little weird.           

457
00:21:45,203 --> 00:21:47,806
   - Three's company.           
It's complicated.               

458
00:21:47,906 --> 00:21:50,642
  - That's a thing in Portland? 
 - It was in that house.        

459
00:21:50,742 --> 00:21:51,910
 - Because that's kind of weird.

460
00:21:52,010 --> 00:21:53,679
  - It's not something          
   you see every day.           

461
00:21:53,779 --> 00:21:56,315
- When Dateline:                
  Secrets Uncovered continues.  

462
00:21:59,151 --> 00:21:59,217
   ♪                            

463
00:21:59,217 --> 00:22:03,722
   ♪♪                           

464
00:22:03,822 --> 00:22:06,858
 Welcome back to                
  Dateline: Secrets Uncovered.  

465
00:22:06,958 --> 00:22:08,226
I'm Craig Melvin.               

466
00:22:08,327 --> 00:22:11,730
  Annie Hester's murder         
 was so vicious,                

467
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:14,099
 police thought                 
   it must have been personal.  

468
00:22:14,199 --> 00:22:16,568
When questioned,                
  her ex husband, Matt,         

469
00:22:16,668 --> 00:22:19,838
  told detectives he was in bed 
with his wife that night.       

470
00:22:19,938 --> 00:22:21,239
 It was a simple alibi.         

471
00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:23,008
  But as investigators          
soon discovered,                

472
00:22:23,108 --> 00:22:27,145
 Matt's life was                
  anything but simple.          

473
00:22:27,245 --> 00:22:30,282
 Back to Josh Mankiewicz        
with The Undoing.               

474
00:22:31,917 --> 00:22:34,820
   - In an ordinary household,  
  a husband might offer         

475
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,756
  an alibi for a wife,          

476
00:22:37,856 --> 00:22:41,259
 and a wife might offer an alibi
for her husband.                

477
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:44,262
   And only children,           
  unreliable witnesses,         

478
00:22:44,363 --> 00:22:47,999
   for the most part,           
 would be left.                 

479
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:52,537
  But none of that was true in  
 the rather unorthodox household

480
00:22:52,637 --> 00:22:54,539
   of Matt and Angela Hester.   

481
00:22:54,639 --> 00:22:57,409
So they had roommates and       
  you spoke with the roommates? 

482
00:22:57,509 --> 00:22:59,745
   - Yeah, we spoke to          
all the roommates there.        

483
00:22:59,845 --> 00:23:02,848
 - All three roommates,         
  to be exact.                  

484
00:23:02,948 --> 00:23:07,018
   It's like a sitcom,          
 except it's not funny.         

485
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,020
- Yeah, our relationship        
   is a little weird.           

486
00:23:09,121 --> 00:23:12,057
 - Roommate number one,         
  Aaron McCraw.                 

487
00:23:12,157 --> 00:23:15,327
   It's a good idea to          
   keep your scorecards handy   

488
00:23:15,427 --> 00:23:18,063
  because Aaron                 
  was Angela's husband          

489
00:23:18,163 --> 00:23:20,065
before she married Matt.        

490
00:23:20,165 --> 00:23:25,337
 Now he's her ex and the father 
 of two of her children.        

491
00:23:25,437 --> 00:23:30,809
 And Aaron was a tenant         
 of his ex and her next.        

492
00:23:30,909 --> 00:23:34,546
   That's a thing in Portland?  
 - It was in that house.        

493
00:23:34,646 --> 00:23:35,747
 - Because that's kind of weird.

494
00:23:35,847 --> 00:23:37,682
  - It's not something you see  
   every day.                   

495
00:23:37,783 --> 00:23:40,652
 - Aaron told police he crashed 
  at Matt and Angela's          

496
00:23:40,752 --> 00:23:41,853
most of the time,               

497
00:23:41,953 --> 00:23:43,288
   for lack of                  
 a better way to put it,        

498
00:23:43,388 --> 00:23:46,024
   when he didn't have          
 a better offer.                

499
00:23:46,124 --> 00:23:48,593
   Lucky for him that           
the night of the murder,        

500
00:23:48,693 --> 00:23:52,597
 Aaron said he did have         
a better offer, that is.        

501
00:23:52,697 --> 00:23:54,666
  - You were staying at         
   your girlfriend's.           

502
00:23:54,766 --> 00:23:56,334
   - I was...                   
   - Or were staying at home?   

503
00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:57,602
  - I was not at home.          

504
00:23:57,702 --> 00:23:59,838
I was at my girlfriend's.       
   Actually, I was --           

505
00:23:59,938 --> 00:24:01,773
 - So Aaron is basically        
 no help to you.                

506
00:24:01,873 --> 00:24:04,576
He wasn't there.                
   - Correct.                   

507
00:24:04,676 --> 00:24:07,212
   - You might want to          
 remember Aaron McCraw.         

508
00:24:07,312 --> 00:24:09,281
You'll be seeing                
 his face again.                

509
00:24:09,381 --> 00:24:11,850
  Roommate number two.          
What does he say?               

510
00:24:11,950 --> 00:24:15,387
  - He was out                  
the evening of the murder       

511
00:24:15,487 --> 00:24:17,889
  and that he came home         

512
00:24:17,989 --> 00:24:22,561
   and he saw Matt and Angela   
  laying in their bed.          

513
00:24:22,661 --> 00:24:25,263
- At what time did he see       
Matt and Angela in bed together?

514
00:24:25,363 --> 00:24:26,898
   - He thought it was          
around midnight.                

515
00:24:26,998 --> 00:24:29,968
- And it was around 11:00       
  that the first witnesses said 

516
00:24:30,068 --> 00:24:32,904
   they heard screams           
 coming from Annie's apartment. 

517
00:24:33,004 --> 00:24:35,173
   - Correct.                   
   About 11:00, 11:15.          

518
00:24:35,273 --> 00:24:38,710
 - So if that roommate's        
   telling the truth,           

519
00:24:38,810 --> 00:24:42,280
   he alibis Matt and Angela,   
  at least for                  

520
00:24:42,380 --> 00:24:43,715
  the beginning of that attack. 

521
00:24:43,815 --> 00:24:45,383
   And presumably they weren't  
 there at the beginning,        

522
00:24:45,484 --> 00:24:47,285
   they weren't there           
  at the middle or end.         

523
00:24:47,385 --> 00:24:48,553
- That's correct.               

524
00:24:48,653 --> 00:24:52,858
  - And there was also a third  
 possible alibi witness.        

525
00:24:52,958 --> 00:24:55,060
 - I live with Matt and Angela. 

526
00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:00,165
   - A third roommate.          
Her name, Karina Walters.       

527
00:25:00,265 --> 00:25:04,503
Karina had been Angela's        
 best friend since high school. 

528
00:25:04,603 --> 00:25:08,240
   After a divorce of her own,  
 even with a decent job,        

529
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:12,844
 Portland's soaring rent prices 
had left Carina homeless.       

530
00:25:12,944 --> 00:25:17,182
   Until Angela invited her to  
  live in their garage.         

531
00:25:17,282 --> 00:25:20,852
 So on the night of the murder, 
   the family's only vehicle,   

532
00:25:20,952 --> 00:25:24,923
   this silver Mazda,           
   was parked just a few feet   

533
00:25:25,023 --> 00:25:26,925
from where Karina slept.        

534
00:25:27,025 --> 00:25:28,760
  - You ever hear them          
coming and going?               

535
00:25:28,860 --> 00:25:32,063
  - Yeah, uh, my-- like I said, 
  I live in the garage.         

536
00:25:32,163 --> 00:25:34,466
   And the garage door          
 is really thin.                

537
00:25:34,566 --> 00:25:36,768
   So if their car starts up,   
 I don't know if you --         

538
00:25:36,868 --> 00:25:38,303
  You haven't heard their car.  
 Of course not.                 

539
00:25:38,403 --> 00:25:39,671
  - No.                         
   - Um, it makes this          

540
00:25:39,771 --> 00:25:43,275
 really God awful rattling noise
   when it starts up.           

541
00:25:43,375 --> 00:25:44,442
 - Okay.                        

542
00:25:44,543 --> 00:25:46,611
  - And if they were to         
  go anywhere, it would make--  

543
00:25:46,711 --> 00:25:48,179
   I'm pretty positive          
  it would wake me up.          

544
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,848
   But they never go anywhere.  

545
00:25:49,948 --> 00:25:51,583
- Did Matt leave                
   last night at all?           

546
00:25:51,683 --> 00:25:54,119
  - No.                         
   - Did Angela leave at all?   

547
00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:55,654
  - No.                         
 - What's more,                 

548
00:25:55,754 --> 00:25:58,023
   Karina told police           
 she'd use the bathroom         

549
00:25:58,123 --> 00:26:02,127
between 3:00 and 4:00 AM        
  and on the way there,         

550
00:26:02,227 --> 00:26:04,629
   she had to pass by the bed   
   in the living room           

551
00:26:04,729 --> 00:26:07,032
  where Matt and Angela slept.  

552
00:26:07,132 --> 00:26:09,167
   - They were asleep.          
 Angela snores.                 

553
00:26:09,267 --> 00:26:13,104
- If Angela or Matt were        
  responsible for this,         

554
00:26:13,204 --> 00:26:14,105
   and you knew it...           

555
00:26:14,205 --> 00:26:15,607
 - I would turn them in         
 in a heartbeat.                

556
00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:17,175
  - Okay. You wouldn't          
 protect them with any--        

557
00:26:17,275 --> 00:26:18,910
   - Hell no.                   
 - Okay.                        

558
00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:22,447
  - In most police interviews,  
   that would be that.          

559
00:26:22,547 --> 00:26:26,384
   Except in this one,          
investigators kept going        

560
00:26:26,484 --> 00:26:29,654
and asked Karina                
   one more question,           

561
00:26:29,754 --> 00:26:34,659
  one informed by some digging  
police had already done.        

562
00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:39,297
  - Are Matt and Angela         
into threesomes?                

563
00:26:39,397 --> 00:26:42,167
 Groupies, Girl on girl,        
 guy on guy, anything like that?

564
00:26:42,267 --> 00:26:45,370
   Or is it all pretty normal?  
  - It's very normal with them. 

565
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:49,474
- Most of us have our own       
  definition of what normal is. 

566
00:26:49,574 --> 00:26:51,743
   Annie had her own.           

567
00:26:51,843 --> 00:26:54,713
   - I just know that           
  the guy she's seeing          

568
00:26:54,813 --> 00:26:55,880
  was in a relationship         

569
00:26:55,981 --> 00:26:59,417
  and Ann was in a relationship 
   with both of them.           

570
00:26:59,517 --> 00:27:00,619
  The guy and the girl.         

571
00:27:00,719 --> 00:27:03,888
- So Ann was, uh, dating        
  both the female and the male. 

572
00:27:03,989 --> 00:27:05,090
   - Correct.                   

573
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:08,660
  - The circle of those closest 
 to Annie was widening.         

574
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,732
 And oh yes, there was one more 
thing that was mentioned.       

575
00:27:13,832 --> 00:27:16,768
Pirates.                        

576
00:27:16,868 --> 00:27:18,003
 - Coming up...                 

577
00:27:18,103 --> 00:27:20,405
 - Pirates love knives.         
  - I've heard.                 

578
00:27:20,505 --> 00:27:24,242
 - And the suspect pool         
  was about to explode.         

579
00:27:24,342 --> 00:27:28,413
 - We learned that Annie        
 participated in pirate parties 

580
00:27:28,513 --> 00:27:29,614
   or dungeon parties.          

581
00:27:29,714 --> 00:27:32,517
   - So we're way past          
   love triangle here.          

582
00:27:32,617 --> 00:27:34,552
  This is like love trapezoid.  

583
00:27:34,653 --> 00:27:38,456
   This is like love rhombus.   
 - Love spider web. Yes.        

584
00:27:38,556 --> 00:27:40,759
 - And you gotta talk to        
all those people.               

585
00:27:40,859 --> 00:27:41,960
   - Correct.                   

586
00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:45,296
- When Dateline:                
  Secrets Uncovered continues.  

587
00:27:46,698 --> 00:27:46,765
   ♪                            

588
00:27:46,765 --> 00:27:51,870
   ♪♪                           

589
00:27:51,970 --> 00:27:54,673
- While investigating the murder
of Annie Hester,                

590
00:27:54,773 --> 00:27:57,709
Gresham, Oregon police detective
  Aaron Turnage                 

591
00:27:57,809 --> 00:28:02,247
  soon found himself in         
a plethora of polyamory.        

592
00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:05,083
 And the more witnesses         
  his team talked with,         

593
00:28:05,183 --> 00:28:08,019
 the deeper police found        
  themselves in the rabbit hole 

594
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,789
 that was Annie's personal life.

595
00:28:10,889 --> 00:28:15,126
 Because maybe the devil        
   was in the details.          

596
00:28:15,226 --> 00:28:19,597
 One of the things that happens 
in murder investigations        

597
00:28:19,698 --> 00:28:24,135
   is that everybody's secrets  
 get laid bare.                 

598
00:28:24,235 --> 00:28:27,072
   Did anything that came out   
 about Annie shock you?         

599
00:28:27,172 --> 00:28:29,941
- No, I knew most of it already.

600
00:28:30,041 --> 00:28:33,878
  She shared plenty of details  
 and information with me        

601
00:28:33,978 --> 00:28:35,647
  that I didn't really          
  need to know,                 

602
00:28:35,747 --> 00:28:37,449
   but it's like, okay, cool.   

603
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:40,318
 She felt like she could tell me
  pretty much anything,         

604
00:28:40,418 --> 00:28:42,654
 and she told me a lot.         

605
00:28:42,754 --> 00:28:45,190
  - Police soon learned         
 Annie explored                 

606
00:28:45,290 --> 00:28:48,660
 the full polyamory experience. 

607
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,363
 Multiple relationships,        
   multiple partners.           

608
00:28:52,464 --> 00:28:56,367
 She wasn't shy                 
  about it or ashamed.          

609
00:28:56,468 --> 00:28:58,470
 And while investigators        
   did have to explore          

610
00:28:58,570 --> 00:29:02,340
   some previously unheard of   
 kinky fetishes,                

611
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,910
 the primary result of learning 
   about Annie's private life   

612
00:29:06,010 --> 00:29:09,848
  was that detectives had more  
  and more leads to chase down. 

613
00:29:09,948 --> 00:29:12,884
   So she was involved          
 with a couple,                 

614
00:29:12,984 --> 00:29:16,554
a man and a woman               
 and some other people.         

615
00:29:16,654 --> 00:29:17,355
   - Correct.                   

616
00:29:17,455 --> 00:29:19,190
- And she was in                
that kink world.                

617
00:29:19,290 --> 00:29:20,358
   - Correct.                   

618
00:29:20,458 --> 00:29:23,495
   - And she had an ex          
  with whom she shared a child. 

619
00:29:23,595 --> 00:29:26,331
So we're way past               
   love triangle here.          

620
00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:30,368
  This is like love trapezoid.  
   This is like love rhombus.   

621
00:29:30,468 --> 00:29:32,437
 - Love spider web. Yes.        

622
00:29:32,537 --> 00:29:34,639
 - And you gotta talk to        
all those people.               

623
00:29:34,739 --> 00:29:36,274
   - Correct.                   

624
00:29:36,374 --> 00:29:39,611
 - The first people on the list,
 that polyamorous couple        

625
00:29:39,711 --> 00:29:42,514
   with whom Annie had          
   had a relationship.          

626
00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:45,416
They asked us not               
  to show their faces.          

627
00:29:45,517 --> 00:29:48,186
  They lived 90 minutes         
south of Portland               

628
00:29:48,286 --> 00:29:52,257
and were part of a group        
  Annie belonged to and loved.  

629
00:29:52,357 --> 00:29:56,261
 A group that took part         
in role play as pirates.        

630
00:29:56,361 --> 00:30:01,366
 - Honestly, I was unaware that 
   pirate things were a thing.  

631
00:30:01,466 --> 00:30:02,500
  - Uh, wait a minute.          

632
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,336
So they all got together        
   and dressed up as pirates?   

633
00:30:05,436 --> 00:30:08,039
   - They did.                  
  And Annie was a part of that. 

634
00:30:08,139 --> 00:30:09,307
You know, we learned that       
there are people                

635
00:30:09,407 --> 00:30:11,209
  that live their lives         
   as pirates,                  

636
00:30:11,309 --> 00:30:13,878
so we had to explore that       
  a little bit.                 

637
00:30:13,978 --> 00:30:16,514
   - And investigators          
did explore that,               

638
00:30:16,614 --> 00:30:19,317
keeping in mind how Annie       
had been stabbed to death       

639
00:30:19,417 --> 00:30:21,853
  with three different knives.  

640
00:30:21,953 --> 00:30:24,489
  Pirates love knives.          
  - I've heard.                 

641
00:30:24,589 --> 00:30:26,591
   There's a subset of          
the pirate world                

642
00:30:26,691 --> 00:30:31,262
that deals with--               
 It's a kink or a sexual world. 

643
00:30:31,362 --> 00:30:33,832
 So people will take knives and 
   they will use them           

644
00:30:33,932 --> 00:30:35,366
during sex acts.                

645
00:30:35,466 --> 00:30:41,506
  We learned that Annie         
 participated in pirate parties 

646
00:30:41,606 --> 00:30:42,974
   or dungeon parties.          

647
00:30:43,074 --> 00:30:44,442
And collectively,               
when we spoke to                

648
00:30:44,542 --> 00:30:45,944
  all of those people,          

649
00:30:46,044 --> 00:30:49,948
it was pretty clear Annie       
  was not into the knife play.  

650
00:30:50,048 --> 00:30:52,083
   That became pretty relevant  
 pretty quickly.                

651
00:30:52,183 --> 00:30:54,986
 She had dabbled in it,         
but it wasn't her thing.        

652
00:30:55,086 --> 00:30:57,021
 - What's more,                 
 detectives soon learned        

653
00:30:57,121 --> 00:31:00,091
  that husband and wife         
  Annie had been seeing         

654
00:31:00,191 --> 00:31:03,628
had broken up with her six weeks
   before the murder.           

655
00:31:03,728 --> 00:31:06,831
  There had been tears,         
  but no hard feelings.         

656
00:31:06,931 --> 00:31:09,767
That couple had an alibi        
  for the night of the murder.  

657
00:31:09,868 --> 00:31:11,035
  - They had an alibi.          

658
00:31:11,135 --> 00:31:13,638
  They were quickly eliminated  
  from suspicion in this case.  

659
00:31:13,738 --> 00:31:15,373
   - Detectives were not just   
  looking into                  

660
00:31:15,473 --> 00:31:17,175
 Annie's personal life.         

661
00:31:17,275 --> 00:31:20,478
They also had to consider       
where the crime occurred.       

662
00:31:20,578 --> 00:31:23,047
 The killer had entered         
   by scaling a fence,          

663
00:31:23,147 --> 00:31:26,451
 then standing on a cinder block
  to remove an air conditioner, 

664
00:31:26,551 --> 00:31:28,286
   then climbing into a window  

665
00:31:28,386 --> 00:31:30,655
   in the back                  
  of Annie's apartment.         

666
00:31:30,755 --> 00:31:33,458
 Just beyond that fence,        
  there was a sidewalk,         

667
00:31:33,558 --> 00:31:35,159
  a busy road,                  

668
00:31:35,260 --> 00:31:37,462
and on the other                
side of the road,               

669
00:31:37,562 --> 00:31:42,066
 a heavily traveled path        
 called the Spring Water Trail. 

670
00:31:42,166 --> 00:31:44,802
How long before you guys        
   are out walking the trail?   

671
00:31:44,903 --> 00:31:45,770
 - Immediately.                 

672
00:31:45,870 --> 00:31:48,006
 It's one of our first searches 
   that we do                   

673
00:31:48,106 --> 00:31:51,209
with a lot of searchers,        
   over several days.           

674
00:31:51,309 --> 00:31:52,744
- The detective wondered,       

675
00:31:52,844 --> 00:31:56,047
  could this have been          
  a random killing, a robbery?  

676
00:31:56,147 --> 00:32:00,018
   After all, on that 911 call  
   Annie made before she died,  

677
00:32:00,118 --> 00:32:03,721
  she'd said a couple of times  
that she didn't know her killer.

678
00:32:09,394 --> 00:32:13,031
 - We had thought, like         
 maybe a transient or...        

679
00:32:13,131 --> 00:32:15,133
 She lived right off of         
 the Spring Water Trail.        

680
00:32:15,233 --> 00:32:16,601
Lots of homeless.               

681
00:32:16,701 --> 00:32:19,938
- This is Karina Walters,       
  Angela's best friend,         

682
00:32:20,038 --> 00:32:23,374
 who lived in the garage        
   at Matt and Angela's place,  

683
00:32:23,474 --> 00:32:26,344
who told police she would       
  definitely have heard         

684
00:32:26,444 --> 00:32:29,247
the family's silver Mazda       
pull away                       

685
00:32:29,347 --> 00:32:31,683
  if it had been taken          
from the driveway               

686
00:32:31,783 --> 00:32:33,885
the night of the murder.        

687
00:32:33,985 --> 00:32:37,388
   She says the random robber   
  from the trail angle          

688
00:32:37,488 --> 00:32:40,925
was the prevailing theory       
  over at their place.          

689
00:32:41,025 --> 00:32:43,094
   - That was honestly          
what we thought.                

690
00:32:43,194 --> 00:32:46,097
   The air conditioner          
had been removed.               

691
00:32:46,197 --> 00:32:48,833
  Somebody came in, killed her, 

692
00:32:48,933 --> 00:32:51,636
  took a bunch of stuff         
and left.                       

693
00:32:51,736 --> 00:32:54,138
- So was that what had happened?

694
00:32:54,238 --> 00:32:57,809
 It was a theory                
 the detective had to consider. 

695
00:32:57,909 --> 00:33:00,111
 - This could have been         
 a robbery or burglary gone bad.

696
00:33:00,211 --> 00:33:03,348
  Annie might have been         
 collateral damage in a robbery.

697
00:33:03,448 --> 00:33:05,616
  - Okay, but a burglar doesn't 
stab you that many times        

698
00:33:05,717 --> 00:33:09,020
  and carve mysterious          
letters into you.               

699
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,455
 - Yeah, not typically.         
 I would agree.                 

700
00:33:10,555 --> 00:33:11,422
 Not typically.                 

701
00:33:11,522 --> 00:33:13,591
  Is it outside                 
the realm of possibility?       

702
00:33:13,691 --> 00:33:14,959
  No, it's not.                 

703
00:33:15,059 --> 00:33:16,794
   - Anything missing           
   from the apartment?          

704
00:33:16,894 --> 00:33:18,930
  - Uh, not that we could tell. 

705
00:33:19,030 --> 00:33:21,366
 All the big stuff that         
 you would go for, the jewelry, 

706
00:33:21,466 --> 00:33:23,101
 the phones, the wallet,        
   the purse,                   

707
00:33:23,201 --> 00:33:24,669
 all that stuff                 
was still there.                

708
00:33:24,769 --> 00:33:28,806
So we were pretty quickly       
able to rule out the idea       

709
00:33:28,906 --> 00:33:32,276
  of a botched burglary         
   or botched robbery.          

710
00:33:32,377 --> 00:33:35,446
- No one deserves to die        
   the way Annie did.           

711
00:33:35,546 --> 00:33:39,751
   And no matter which trails   
 or avenues detectives explored,

712
00:33:39,851 --> 00:33:42,720
   they found no evidence that  
  any of the choices Annie made 

713
00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:45,623
  in her personal life          
or anywhere else                

714
00:33:45,723 --> 00:33:48,526
   had anything to do           
 with her death.                

715
00:33:48,626 --> 00:33:51,829
Except maybe in one area.       

716
00:33:51,929 --> 00:33:56,367
 Her choice of friends.         

717
00:33:56,467 --> 00:33:59,070
 - Coming up...                 
   - I'm sure you've seen TV.   

718
00:33:59,170 --> 00:34:00,838
 When we have situations        
  like this, you know,          

719
00:34:00,938 --> 00:34:02,540
   everybody points to          
 the ex-husband did it.         

720
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:03,508
 - Yeah.                        

721
00:34:03,608 --> 00:34:05,710
- Matt issues a challenge       
 to detectives.                 

722
00:34:09,914 --> 00:34:13,051
- When Dateline:                
  Secrets uncovered continues.  

723
00:34:14,018 --> 00:34:14,085
   ♪                            

724
00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:19,924
   ♪♪                           

725
00:34:20,024 --> 00:34:22,960
- About 12 hours                
 after police first interviewed 

726
00:34:23,061 --> 00:34:27,632
Annie Hester's ex husband, Matt,
  and his current wife, Angela, 

727
00:34:27,732 --> 00:34:30,635
 the couple was back at         
  the Gresham Police Department 

728
00:34:30,735 --> 00:34:33,304
   for a late night round two.  

729
00:34:33,404 --> 00:34:36,207
Matt was still displaying       
   difficulty walking           

730
00:34:36,307 --> 00:34:38,376
 from those unexplained         
medical problems                

731
00:34:38,476 --> 00:34:40,545
  he told police about.         

732
00:34:40,645 --> 00:34:42,780
Detective Turnage thought       
they represented                

733
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,450
  something other than illness. 

734
00:34:45,550 --> 00:34:47,018
- You're convinced that's       
for your benefit?               

735
00:34:47,118 --> 00:34:49,220
   He's not actually in pain?   

736
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,189
 - I believe it's laying        
  a foundation                  

737
00:34:51,289 --> 00:34:53,658
 that he's incapable of         
  committing such a violent act 

738
00:34:53,758 --> 00:34:57,128
   because he can barely move   
across our waiting room.        

739
00:34:57,228 --> 00:34:59,597
 - Sure, Matt and Angela        
had two roommates               

740
00:34:59,697 --> 00:35:02,166
who'd alibi them                
 and said they were home        

741
00:35:02,266 --> 00:35:04,368
during the night                
   of Annie's murder.           

742
00:35:04,469 --> 00:35:06,671
That didn't quite do it.        

743
00:35:06,771 --> 00:35:09,574
 To detectives,                 
 Matt was still a person        

744
00:35:09,674 --> 00:35:12,777
of the strongest                
   possible interest.           

745
00:35:12,877 --> 00:35:14,979
   I mean, obviously,           
   we got to consider           

746
00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:17,215
 all possibilities here.        
- Mm-hmm.                       

747
00:35:17,315 --> 00:35:18,783
 - And I'm sure you've seen TV, 
  when we have                  

748
00:35:18,883 --> 00:35:20,251
 situations like this, you know,

749
00:35:20,351 --> 00:35:22,320
   everybody points to          
 the ex-husband did it.         

750
00:35:22,420 --> 00:35:25,256
- I want to help you guys       
  because-because the--         

751
00:35:25,356 --> 00:35:27,658
   - A-and I wanna --           

752
00:35:27,758 --> 00:35:31,362
 [clears throat]                
- Sorry.                        

753
00:35:31,462 --> 00:35:33,531
  The thing I'm worried         
  about is my daughter.         

754
00:35:33,631 --> 00:35:34,665
  - I hear you.                 

755
00:35:34,765 --> 00:35:36,100
Matt, if you had anything       
 to do with Ann's death,        

756
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,401
 I need to know                 
   about it right now.          

757
00:35:37,502 --> 00:35:38,636
  - I did not.                  

758
00:35:38,736 --> 00:35:40,938
I would never do anything       
  that would endanger my child. 

759
00:35:41,038 --> 00:35:42,740
  - Okay. And I'm glad          
  to hear you say that,         

760
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,442
  because that tells me         
  what kind of parent you are.  

761
00:35:44,542 --> 00:35:46,544
   Is there any reason          
   why I find your DNA          

762
00:35:46,644 --> 00:35:49,313
 involved in that murder scene? 
- No, no.                       

763
00:35:49,413 --> 00:35:51,983
 - Detectives asked Matt        
 to take off his shirt,         

764
00:35:52,083 --> 00:35:53,484
  knowing that                  
  if he'd been involved         

765
00:35:53,584 --> 00:35:55,553
   in such a violent stabbing,  

766
00:35:55,653 --> 00:35:58,990
   his body would show          
some sign of it.                

767
00:35:59,090 --> 00:36:01,025
   They found nothing.          

768
00:36:01,125 --> 00:36:03,628
  Then they asked about         
those bloody shoe prints,       

769
00:36:03,728 --> 00:36:07,965
  presumably left by the killer 
   fleeing Annie's apartment.   

770
00:36:08,065 --> 00:36:11,736
Someone who wore                
   a size 9 and a half or 10.   

771
00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:13,437
   - Do you know what kind of   
shoes you had right here?       

772
00:36:13,538 --> 00:36:14,705
   - These are boots.           
  Yeah.                         

773
00:36:14,805 --> 00:36:16,941
  - What size?                  
  - Uh, eleven and a half wide. 

774
00:36:17,041 --> 00:36:19,810
 - Okay.                        
- That didn't fit either.       

775
00:36:19,911 --> 00:36:22,513
 Nonetheless, Detective Turnage 
 tried a tactic,                

776
00:36:22,613 --> 00:36:25,950
you may be familiar with,       
   suggesting to Matt           

777
00:36:26,050 --> 00:36:29,220
that police had more than       
 they really did                

778
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,922
and trying to rattle him.       

779
00:36:31,022 --> 00:36:36,394
  - I need to let you know that 
 my investigation clearly shows 

780
00:36:36,494 --> 00:36:39,931
   that you're responsible for  
   Ann's death                  

781
00:36:40,031 --> 00:36:42,667
and you're involved in it       
   intimately.                  

782
00:36:42,767 --> 00:36:44,268
There's--                       
  - You would have charged me.  

783
00:36:44,368 --> 00:36:46,070
  - No, no, I wouldn't.         
I wouldn't have.                

784
00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:47,638
 - If you thought I did,        
  you would charge me.          

785
00:36:47,738 --> 00:36:49,140
- Nope, not necessarily.        
  - I had nothing to do         

786
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:50,107
 with her death.                

787
00:36:50,208 --> 00:36:52,243
  - He made the comment         
in the interview,               

788
00:36:52,343 --> 00:36:54,245
if you had enough on me,        
 you would arrest me right now, 

789
00:36:54,345 --> 00:36:56,914
  you know, which I thought was 
 a very, very arrogant comment. 

790
00:36:57,014 --> 00:36:59,717
So that was a little bit        
  of a red flag for me.         

791
00:36:59,817 --> 00:37:03,888
 - And also, do innocent people 
say to you, historically,       

792
00:37:03,988 --> 00:37:07,058
well, if you had enough,        
you'd arrest me?                

793
00:37:07,158 --> 00:37:08,960
  - Not at all.                 
   - They say, "You're crazy.   

794
00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:11,295
 I had nothing to do with this. 
I couldn't kill anyone."        

795
00:37:11,395 --> 00:37:12,396
- There's strong denials,       

796
00:37:12,496 --> 00:37:13,764
"Absolutely have                
   the wrong person."           

797
00:37:13,864 --> 00:37:14,732
  They get mad.                 

798
00:37:14,832 --> 00:37:16,400
  I would expect anger          
and frustration.                

799
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:18,436
  T-Those are the signs         
  of a truthful person.         

800
00:37:18,536 --> 00:37:20,171
  That told me,                 
   as the investigator          

801
00:37:20,271 --> 00:37:21,439
   and the detective,           

802
00:37:21,539 --> 00:37:22,673
  I need to dig                 
   a little bit deeper          

803
00:37:22,773 --> 00:37:25,309
   and look a little bit more   
 into this conversation.        

804
00:37:25,409 --> 00:37:27,845
- Down the hall,                
detectives were also questioning

805
00:37:27,945 --> 00:37:30,648
  Matt's current wife, Angela.  

806
00:37:30,748 --> 00:37:32,383
She wasn't feeling well,        
she said,                       

807
00:37:32,483 --> 00:37:37,755
  but she was willing to answer 
 questions about Annie's murder.

808
00:37:37,855 --> 00:37:40,658
- I'm just going to keep        
   my eyes shut, my head down.  

809
00:37:40,758 --> 00:37:42,927
 - Okay.                        
How did it make you feel        

810
00:37:43,027 --> 00:37:47,898
  when you heard about          
her being killed?               

811
00:37:47,999 --> 00:37:50,134
   - Shocked.                   
- Mm-hmm.                       

812
00:37:50,234 --> 00:37:54,505
  - Um, non-believing.          

813
00:37:54,605 --> 00:38:01,145
Um, extremely sad because       
 Alice had lost her mom.        

814
00:38:02,046 --> 00:38:05,216
 - Then as detectives once again
   took Angela through          

815
00:38:05,316 --> 00:38:09,720
 the timeline of Annie's murder,
she volunteered something       

816
00:38:09,820 --> 00:38:13,124
   that made her interrogators  
sit up straight.                

817
00:38:13,224 --> 00:38:14,659
   - Did you guys sleep well?   
 What happened?                 

818
00:38:14,759 --> 00:38:16,327
   Did you get through          
 the night or--                 

819
00:38:16,427 --> 00:38:17,962
  - For the most part,          
   we slept just fine           

820
00:38:18,062 --> 00:38:21,098
  until my dog started whining. 

821
00:38:21,198 --> 00:38:25,236
  - Guess what time Angela said 
  the dogs woke her up.         

822
00:38:25,336 --> 00:38:27,371
Remember,                       
 neighbors heard screams        

823
00:38:27,471 --> 00:38:32,510
  and Annie called 911          
   all about 3:00 AM.           

824
00:38:32,610 --> 00:38:34,211
- Do you remember               
looking at a clock or--?        

825
00:38:34,312 --> 00:38:38,082
 - I half opened my eye         
  to look at the clock slightly 

826
00:38:38,182 --> 00:38:41,485
and see that it was around 3:00.
 - Okay.                        

827
00:38:41,585 --> 00:38:42,853
 Did you actually end up        
having to get out of bed        

828
00:38:42,953 --> 00:38:43,988
  to let them out or--?         
 - Yeah.                        

829
00:38:44,088 --> 00:38:47,692
  I got up, walked downstairs,  
  put their leashes on,         

830
00:38:47,792 --> 00:38:51,395
took them potty,                
   came back upstairs,          

831
00:38:51,495 --> 00:38:55,333
   put them in their kennels.   
- Mm-hmm.                       

832
00:38:55,433 --> 00:38:58,803
  - And then I went to go potty 
  and end up--                  

833
00:38:58,903 --> 00:39:01,839
  I end up puking and sh---ing  
myself at the same time.        

834
00:39:01,939 --> 00:39:03,607
 - Oh, that's horrible.         
   I'm sorry.                   

835
00:39:03,708 --> 00:39:07,478
- And t-that's--                
I called Matt to help me        

836
00:39:07,578 --> 00:39:09,880
   and he came and helped me.   

837
00:39:09,980 --> 00:39:13,784
  We took a shower to help get  
  the poop off                  

838
00:39:13,884 --> 00:39:15,853
and rinse                       
   some of the sweat off of me  

839
00:39:15,953 --> 00:39:18,356
   because apparently           
 I was sweating.                

840
00:39:18,456 --> 00:39:23,127
 - So now, according to Angela, 
   they're both showering at,   

841
00:39:23,227 --> 00:39:27,431
coincidentally, the time        
the murder was committed.       

842
00:39:27,531 --> 00:39:30,101
 That's not suspicious.         
- No, not at all.               

843
00:39:30,201 --> 00:39:33,003
And it wasn't suspicious        
  when I spoke to Matt          

844
00:39:33,104 --> 00:39:34,338
   and asked Matt about that.   

845
00:39:34,438 --> 00:39:38,242
   And Matt said he woke up at  
  3:00 AM and heard her go out  

846
00:39:38,342 --> 00:39:40,444
  and let the dogs out,         
  but he never got out of bed.  

847
00:39:40,544 --> 00:39:42,780
Matt didn't remember it,        
  says he never got out of bed. 

848
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,482
 Angela's saying                
   she got out of bed           

849
00:39:44,582 --> 00:39:45,883
   and Matt helped her          
 take a shower.                 

850
00:39:45,983 --> 00:39:47,918
 So things just                 
   weren't adding up.           

851
00:39:48,018 --> 00:39:50,020
   - The focus was narrowing.   

852
00:39:50,121 --> 00:39:51,889
   Annie's polyamorous          
  relationships                 

853
00:39:51,989 --> 00:39:55,359
hadn't generated                
   any murderous rage.          

854
00:39:55,459 --> 00:39:57,328
   Her friends                  
 in the pirate community        

855
00:39:57,428 --> 00:40:00,965
   had no intention of          
   making her walk the plank.   

856
00:40:01,065 --> 00:40:05,035
And this didn't feel like       
 a burglary or something random.

857
00:40:05,136 --> 00:40:09,306
Well, thought Detective Turnage,
  now we're getting somewhere.  

858
00:40:13,577 --> 00:40:17,314
  A week after Annie's murder,  
   family and friends gathered  

859
00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:19,283
 to say goodbye                 
  at this funeral home          

860
00:40:19,383 --> 00:40:21,218
   in Gresham, Oregon.          

861
00:40:21,318 --> 00:40:26,690
And among the mourners...       
- We had 10-12 detectives       

862
00:40:26,791 --> 00:40:29,760
  scattered throughout          
   the property there.          

863
00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:31,228
  - Detectives took this video  

864
00:40:31,328 --> 00:40:33,864
  of Annie's 4 year old         
 daughter Alice,                

865
00:40:33,964 --> 00:40:37,568
there with her stepmother Angela
and father Matt,                

866
00:40:37,668 --> 00:40:41,705
 the couple considered by police
  and by Annie's family         

867
00:40:41,806 --> 00:40:43,774
  to be prime suspects.         

868
00:40:43,874 --> 00:40:46,310
   It had to be strange to see  
 Alice being taken care         

869
00:40:46,410 --> 00:40:50,147
 of by people that you at least 
  suspected of possibly         

870
00:40:50,247 --> 00:40:53,017
 having some involvement        
 in her murder.                 

871
00:40:53,117 --> 00:40:56,620
   - It was hard knowing that   
  she was with somebody         

872
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:59,824
 that we didn't want her        
   to be with.                  

873
00:40:59,924 --> 00:41:01,659
And there was very little       
that we could do                

874
00:41:01,759 --> 00:41:06,697
  at that point in time         
 but just hope that she's safe. 

875
00:41:07,765 --> 00:41:10,868
  - Inside the chapel,          
more detectives,                

876
00:41:10,968 --> 00:41:13,337
  including one                 
   undercover officer           

877
00:41:13,437 --> 00:41:15,973
  who sat right next to         
 Matt and Angela                

878
00:41:16,073 --> 00:41:19,243
  and who made                  
  a game changing observation.  

879
00:41:19,343 --> 00:41:22,379
- One of the things that        
  the detective noticed         

880
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,082
 on the back of                 
  Angela's right hand,          

881
00:41:25,182 --> 00:41:29,954
she has a about a 1 1/2 inch cut
on the, you know,               

882
00:41:30,054 --> 00:41:31,789
 top side of the webbing        
between the thumb               

883
00:41:31,889 --> 00:41:33,090
  and the index finger.         

884
00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:37,094
  - Investigators who'd so far  
  focused more on Matt          

885
00:41:37,194 --> 00:41:39,330
   now had another direction.   

886
00:41:39,430 --> 00:41:41,298
 Did seeing Angela with         
  that cut on her hand          

887
00:41:41,398 --> 00:41:42,466
 at the funeral                 

888
00:41:42,566 --> 00:41:45,836
  change the level of suspicion 
   that she was under?          

889
00:41:45,936 --> 00:41:47,738
  - Absolutely, it did.         

890
00:41:47,838 --> 00:41:50,541
  - So then what would          
make Angela angry enough        

891
00:41:50,641 --> 00:41:53,410
  to drive across town          
   in the middle of the night   

892
00:41:53,511 --> 00:41:57,615
   and torture Annie for hours  
   before killing her?          

893
00:41:57,715 --> 00:42:01,385
And how would Angela and        
 presumably Matt                

894
00:42:01,485 --> 00:42:04,388
   benefit from Annie's death?  

895
00:42:04,488 --> 00:42:08,859
   Well, therein lies a tale.   
 - Coming up...                 

896
00:42:08,959 --> 00:42:12,062
- Matt said he considered       
 himself a professional parent. 

897
00:42:12,162 --> 00:42:15,699
 He and Angela received benefits
  from their children.          

898
00:42:15,799 --> 00:42:18,035
   - Was money behind           
 the tug of war                 

899
00:42:18,135 --> 00:42:19,570
   over little Alice?           

900
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:22,039
   It sounds like Matt          
 and his wife saw Alice         

901
00:42:22,139 --> 00:42:24,608
   as almost like an ATM card.  

902
00:42:24,708 --> 00:42:26,377
 - Yeah, a meal ticket.         

903
00:42:26,477 --> 00:42:29,713
- When "Dateline:               
  Secrets Uncovered" continues. 

904
00:42:31,882 --> 00:42:31,949
   ♪                            

905
00:42:31,949 --> 00:42:35,452
   ♪♪                           

906
00:42:35,553 --> 00:42:38,022
- Welcome back to               
 "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered." 

907
00:42:38,122 --> 00:42:39,490
I'm Craig Melvin.               

908
00:42:39,590 --> 00:42:41,892
  Detectives suspected          
  Angela Hester                 

909
00:42:41,992 --> 00:42:44,128
  and her husband Matt          
   were involved in the murder  

910
00:42:44,228 --> 00:42:45,996
  of his ex wife Annie.         

911
00:42:46,096 --> 00:42:48,566
   There were                   
troubling inconsistencies       

912
00:42:48,666 --> 00:42:49,667
in their alibis.                

913
00:42:49,767 --> 00:42:53,304
   And Angela had a suspicious  
   wound on her hand.           

914
00:42:53,404 --> 00:42:56,073
 Digging deeper,                
  police were about to uncover  

915
00:42:56,173 --> 00:43:00,978
  a secret scheme to take away  
 what Annie loved most.         

916
00:43:01,078 --> 00:43:04,982
 Back to Josh Mankiewicz        
   with "The Undoing."          

917
00:43:05,082 --> 00:43:07,651
  Police investigating          
   the murder of Annie Hester   

918
00:43:07,751 --> 00:43:11,188
 wondered if her ex husband Matt
   and his wife Angela          

919
00:43:11,288 --> 00:43:14,992
  had anything to gain          
   from Annie's death.          

920
00:43:15,092 --> 00:43:17,394
   They found out that          
 Matt and Annie                 

921
00:43:17,494 --> 00:43:20,497
 had an amicable divorce        
 in 2012                        

922
00:43:20,598 --> 00:43:23,434
   and shared custody           
of their daughter Alice.        

923
00:43:23,534 --> 00:43:27,204
  Matt paid about $200 a month  
in child support.               

924
00:43:27,304 --> 00:43:29,740
Two years later,                
  when Matt met Angela          

925
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,444
and they married,               
the good relationship continued.

926
00:43:33,544 --> 00:43:36,847
  Karina Walters lived          
  with Matt and Angela.         

927
00:43:36,947 --> 00:43:39,350
  - Like, they all had          
 this great relationship        

928
00:43:39,450 --> 00:43:40,250
  all together.                 

929
00:43:40,351 --> 00:43:42,686
  Like, we took                 
   vacations together.          

930
00:43:42,786 --> 00:43:44,688
 - What changed?                
 - I'm not 100%,                

931
00:43:44,788 --> 00:43:46,890
  but, like, the only catalyst  
   that I've been able          

932
00:43:46,991 --> 00:43:49,860
 to put together is that        
  Annie wanted her mom          

933
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,463
   to watch Alice more often,   
  and Matt didn't want          

934
00:43:52,563 --> 00:43:54,264
  to give up that time.         

935
00:43:54,365 --> 00:43:56,000
- That doesn't seem like        
  a huge issue,                 

936
00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:57,801
 but it provoked                
 a huge problem.                

937
00:43:57,901 --> 00:43:58,902
 - Yeah.                        

938
00:43:59,003 --> 00:44:01,839
 So then there ended up         
 being the custody word,        

939
00:44:01,939 --> 00:44:03,974
   like, being thrown           
 back and forth.                

940
00:44:04,074 --> 00:44:06,076
   - As often happens,          

941
00:44:06,176 --> 00:44:10,681
 a tug of war involving         
   a child ended up in court.   

942
00:44:10,781 --> 00:44:14,151
 - Was the custody battle nasty?
 - It got pretty nasty.         

943
00:44:14,251 --> 00:44:15,753
  - It got bad.                 

944
00:44:15,853 --> 00:44:17,087
   - How bad?                   

945
00:44:17,187 --> 00:44:20,758
   Angela soon called Oregon's  
  Department of Human Services  

946
00:44:20,858 --> 00:44:24,895
 to report Annie                
   for child neglect.           

947
00:44:24,995 --> 00:44:28,499
 In response, Annie sent        
 this email to a friend,        

948
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:31,168
writing,                        
  and I'll paraphrase,          

949
00:44:31,268 --> 00:44:34,171
"I just cannot comprehend       
  what I did to deserve         

950
00:44:34,271 --> 00:44:37,574
"this level of...               
   in my life.                  

951
00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:40,344
  "I am so done                 
   dealing with this."          

952
00:44:41,912 --> 00:44:45,683
 The state found                
 no evidence of neglect.        

953
00:44:45,783 --> 00:44:48,318
   Then Angela started          
  taking a larger role          

954
00:44:48,419 --> 00:44:52,623
 in the child exchanges         
   after Matt suddenly claimed  

955
00:44:52,723 --> 00:44:55,492
 to remember that Annie         
 had abused him                 

956
00:44:55,592 --> 00:44:57,528
 during their marriage.         

957
00:44:57,628 --> 00:44:59,163
   That seemed                  
   reasonable to you?           

958
00:44:59,263 --> 00:45:00,898
- No, it wasn't.                

959
00:45:00,998 --> 00:45:02,900
 And really what it was,        
  was they were trying to build 

960
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,869
this case so that               
  Matt could get Alice.         

961
00:45:05,969 --> 00:45:08,772
  - Matt stopped paying         
 child support,                 

962
00:45:08,872 --> 00:45:11,909
 and Annie, who friends         
said had initially sought       

963
00:45:12,009 --> 00:45:14,378
  a resolution everyone         
could live with,                

964
00:45:14,478 --> 00:45:16,914
  now dug in her heels.         

965
00:45:17,014 --> 00:45:20,084
In an email, Annie called       
   Matt antagonistic,           

966
00:45:20,184 --> 00:45:23,587
 uncooperative,                 
and more.                       

967
00:45:23,687 --> 00:45:26,824
As detectives dug deeper        
   into the case file,          

968
00:45:26,924 --> 00:45:29,326
  they discovered one possible  
 reason Matt and Angela         

969
00:45:29,426 --> 00:45:32,663
   seemed desperate to          
 gain custody of Alice,         

970
00:45:32,763 --> 00:45:35,099
and it was this.                

971
00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:38,936
  Neither Matt                  
  nor Angela had a job.         

972
00:45:39,603 --> 00:45:41,371
 - Matt said he                 
   considered himself           

973
00:45:41,472 --> 00:45:42,740
 a professional parent.         

974
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,176
  He and Angela receive         
  benefits from their children, 

975
00:45:46,276 --> 00:45:49,413
 their children being diagnosed 
 with various medical conditions

976
00:45:49,513 --> 00:45:52,316
which get state benefits        
   or payouts.                  

977
00:45:52,416 --> 00:45:54,084
  So they reap                  
those benefits to the sum       

978
00:45:54,184 --> 00:45:57,521
of approximately                
  $2,000 a month total.         

979
00:45:57,621 --> 00:46:00,758
And that is their payment       
 for being professional parents.

980
00:46:00,858 --> 00:46:03,193
 And if Matt and Angela         
  saw children                  

981
00:46:03,293 --> 00:46:05,362
   as a means                   
of earning money,               

982
00:46:05,462 --> 00:46:08,999
   what would gaining custody   
 of Alice mean for them?        

983
00:46:09,099 --> 00:46:11,201
Well, detectives                
 soon found out                 

984
00:46:11,301 --> 00:46:14,371
  the couple seemed to          
   have plans for Alice, too.   

985
00:46:14,471 --> 00:46:16,607
 A court ordered                
custody evaluation found        

986
00:46:16,707 --> 00:46:19,042
that three year old Alice       
 was having some trouble        

987
00:46:19,143 --> 00:46:20,511
   adjusting to going           
 back and forth                 

988
00:46:20,611 --> 00:46:22,112
 between two households.        

989
00:46:22,212 --> 00:46:24,715
That's common for               
  children of divorce.          

990
00:46:24,815 --> 00:46:26,583
 Matt and Angela                
 both said they believed        

991
00:46:26,683 --> 00:46:29,319
   Alice's behavioral problems  
could be related                

992
00:46:29,419 --> 00:46:31,021
  to bipolar disorder.          

993
00:46:31,121 --> 00:46:33,624
Annie's lawyers suggested       
in court filings                

994
00:46:33,724 --> 00:46:35,759
 it was all part                
  of a scheme.                  

995
00:46:35,859 --> 00:46:37,895
  More children                 
with disabilities               

996
00:46:37,995 --> 00:46:41,031
   equaled more money           
 from the state.                

997
00:46:41,131 --> 00:46:42,099
   It sounds like Matt          
  and his wife                  

998
00:46:42,199 --> 00:46:45,435
 saw Alice less                 
 as his daughter                

999
00:46:45,536 --> 00:46:49,072
  and more as--                 
almost like an ATM card.        

1000
00:46:49,173 --> 00:46:51,074
 - Yeah, a meal ticket.         

1001
00:46:51,175 --> 00:46:53,744
I mean, that was the word       
 that was thrown around         

1002
00:46:53,844 --> 00:46:55,312
  at the time.                  

1003
00:46:55,412 --> 00:46:58,482
  - In the end, a judge         
 had no doubts about who        

1004
00:46:58,582 --> 00:47:00,284
 was the better parent.         

1005
00:47:00,384 --> 00:47:02,186
   Six months                   
   before her murder,           

1006
00:47:02,286 --> 00:47:05,989
Annie was awarded               
 full custody of Alice.         

1007
00:47:06,089 --> 00:47:08,292
Matt got something, too.        

1008
00:47:08,392 --> 00:47:09,927
 A bill.                        

1009
00:47:10,027 --> 00:47:13,163
$29,000 in court                
and lawyers' fees               

1010
00:47:13,263 --> 00:47:16,700
and about $13,000               
 in back child support.         

1011
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,502
   The total?                   

1012
00:47:18,602 --> 00:47:21,371
  A little more                 
 than $42 grand.                

1013
00:47:21,471 --> 00:47:24,141
Did Annie ever expect to        
 see any of that money?         

1014
00:47:24,241 --> 00:47:26,109
  - Not really.                 
 Because he didn't work.        

1015
00:47:26,210 --> 00:47:28,645
  - And if things could         
   get worse for Matt,          

1016
00:47:28,745 --> 00:47:30,147
 they soon did.                 

1017
00:47:30,247 --> 00:47:33,517
 In Oregon, one of the penalties
  for not paying child support  

1018
00:47:33,617 --> 00:47:36,253
is losing                       
 your driver's license.         

1019
00:47:36,353 --> 00:47:39,056
  Then, a month                 
 before Annie's murder,         

1020
00:47:39,156 --> 00:47:42,092
  a warrant was issued          
   for Matt's arrest.           

1021
00:47:42,192 --> 00:47:43,827
What was                        
  the reaction to that          

1022
00:47:43,927 --> 00:47:45,996
  in the house                  
   you were living in?          

1023
00:47:46,096 --> 00:47:49,132
   - A lot of banging           
 and a lot of screaming.        

1024
00:47:49,233 --> 00:47:52,936
  And Angela was crying         
   about how the effing courts  

1025
00:47:53,036 --> 00:47:55,606
   didn't know what they were   
  effing talking about.         

1026
00:47:55,706 --> 00:47:56,940
 And how are we                 
   going to pay this?           

1027
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,142
What I thought was weird        
  was Matt's reaction,          

1028
00:47:59,243 --> 00:48:00,477
 because there was none.        

1029
00:48:00,577 --> 00:48:02,813
   There was nothing.           
He wasn't even--                

1030
00:48:02,913 --> 00:48:04,514
  like, he wasn't even          
paying attention.               

1031
00:48:04,615 --> 00:48:05,415
- Really?                       

1032
00:48:05,515 --> 00:48:07,284
   Angela was furious.          
 He was like...                 

1033
00:48:07,384 --> 00:48:10,187
   "Whatever."                  
- Yeah, that bothered me.       

1034
00:48:10,287 --> 00:48:12,356
  This, to me, was a--          

1035
00:48:12,456 --> 00:48:15,058
 was a dad who gave up,         
who didn't care anymore.        

1036
00:48:15,158 --> 00:48:17,027
 - Well, if Matt                
  didn't care,                  

1037
00:48:17,127 --> 00:48:18,996
  Angela seemed                 
to care more than enough        

1038
00:48:19,096 --> 00:48:21,064
for both of them.               

1039
00:48:21,164 --> 00:48:24,234
In fact, the day                
 of the court judgment,         

1040
00:48:24,334 --> 00:48:28,238
  Angela made a remark          
  Karina won't forget.          

1041
00:48:28,338 --> 00:48:31,141
   At one point, Angela says,   
"If I killed her,               

1042
00:48:31,241 --> 00:48:33,043
   "nobody would even           
   miss her."                   

1043
00:48:33,143 --> 00:48:34,144
 - Yeah.                        

1044
00:48:34,244 --> 00:48:36,380
 And I was like, "Okay,         
you're mad, you're angry.       

1045
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,282
   "I get it."                  
  - It's inflammatory.          

1046
00:48:38,382 --> 00:48:40,484
   It's a stupid thing          
 to say, but...                 

1047
00:48:40,584 --> 00:48:43,220
it's not exactly somebody       
plotting a crime.               

1048
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,321
  - No.                         

1049
00:48:44,421 --> 00:48:46,056
 I just thought                 
  she was mad.                  

1050
00:48:46,156 --> 00:48:47,958
- Just blowing off steam.       

1051
00:48:48,058 --> 00:48:50,093
  No reason for Karina          
 to call police                 

1052
00:48:50,193 --> 00:48:52,829
  or mention it                 
   to Annie...                  

1053
00:48:52,930 --> 00:48:54,364
   Was there?                   

1054
00:48:57,768 --> 00:49:00,337
   - Video cameras essentially  
captured that car               

1055
00:49:00,437 --> 00:49:04,775
   all the way to the driveway  
  of Annie's apartment.         

1056
00:49:04,875 --> 00:49:07,544
- A killer's car                
caught on camera.               

1057
00:49:07,644 --> 00:49:09,680
   - No question, that's Matt   
and Angela's SUV?               

1058
00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:10,614
 - No question.                 

1059
00:49:10,714 --> 00:49:12,649
Somebody from that house        
 left that home                 

1060
00:49:12,749 --> 00:49:13,784
  to commit the murder          

1061
00:49:13,884 --> 00:49:15,619
  and then returned to          
   that home after the murder.  

1062
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:16,720
 - Can you tell                 
 who's driving?                 

1063
00:49:16,820 --> 00:49:18,021
 - Nope.                        

1064
00:49:18,121 --> 00:49:21,058
- When "Dateline:               
  Secrets Uncovered" continues. 

1065
00:49:23,427 --> 00:49:23,493
   ♪                            

1066
00:49:23,493 --> 00:49:29,566
   ♪♪                           

1067
00:49:29,666 --> 00:49:32,669
   - Gresham Police Detective   
   Aaron Turnage and his team   

1068
00:49:32,769 --> 00:49:35,272
  had solid suspension          
   about Matt                   

1069
00:49:35,372 --> 00:49:38,208
   and Angela Hester's          
 possible roles                 

1070
00:49:38,308 --> 00:49:40,344
  in the murder                 
of Annie Hester.                

1071
00:49:40,444 --> 00:49:44,247
  They also had                 
   no solid evidence.           

1072
00:49:44,348 --> 00:49:46,583
That was about to change,       

1073
00:49:46,683 --> 00:49:50,020
 starting with a search         
  for security video that night 

1074
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,857
   around their home,           
  just before 11:00 PM.         

1075
00:49:53,957 --> 00:49:55,392
  Oh...                         

1076
00:49:55,492 --> 00:49:57,194
  Look at that.                 

1077
00:49:57,294 --> 00:50:00,197
- Their neighbor                
   had a video camera           

1078
00:50:00,297 --> 00:50:03,300
that recorded the street        
in front of their house.        

1079
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,203
  That camera captured          
 a light colored                

1080
00:50:06,303 --> 00:50:09,373
   or silver SUV, uh,           

1081
00:50:09,473 --> 00:50:12,275
 coming out of the area         
 of Matt and Angela's driveway. 

1082
00:50:12,376 --> 00:50:14,878
 - There it was.                

1083
00:50:14,978 --> 00:50:17,180
  - No question, that's         
 Matt and Angela's SUV?         

1084
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,349
 - There's no question.         
  - Can you tell who's driving? 

1085
00:50:19,449 --> 00:50:21,451
 - We can't tell                
  who's driving. Nope.          

1086
00:50:21,551 --> 00:50:23,020
- So this isn't like TV,        
where you can blow it up        

1087
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,422
 and see exactly                
   who it is.                   

1088
00:50:25,522 --> 00:50:26,890
   - Enhance, enhance,          
 enhance. Zoom.                 

1089
00:50:26,990 --> 00:50:28,992
  No, it's not                  
like television.                

1090
00:50:29,092 --> 00:50:31,928
   - Still, for investigators,  
  this was astounding,          

1091
00:50:32,029 --> 00:50:35,799
  because that                  
silver Mazda SUV                

1092
00:50:35,899 --> 00:50:40,270
   had a cameo on each          
  of nine more cameras          

1093
00:50:40,370 --> 00:50:45,475
   on its way across Portland   
to the suburb of Gresham.       

1094
00:50:45,575 --> 00:50:47,878
   - Video cameras essentially  
captured that car               

1095
00:50:47,978 --> 00:50:52,416
   all the way to the driveway  
  of Annie's apartment.         

1096
00:50:53,850 --> 00:50:56,520
   - The trip took 26 minutes,  

1097
00:50:56,620 --> 00:50:57,687
putting the silver Mazda        

1098
00:50:57,788 --> 00:51:02,759
 at Annie's at 11:23 PM,        
  right around the time         

1099
00:51:02,859 --> 00:51:05,662
   neighbors reported           
hearing screams.                

1100
00:51:05,762 --> 00:51:09,332
  Then about four hours later,  
 about 3:00 AM,                 

1101
00:51:09,433 --> 00:51:11,735
   the time of                  
Annie's 911 call,               

1102
00:51:11,835 --> 00:51:14,638
 reporting her attacker         
had just left...                

1103
00:51:14,738 --> 00:51:16,540
   Do you see                   
that silver Mazda               

1104
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,242
returning to Matt               
   and Angela's house?          

1105
00:51:19,342 --> 00:51:20,343
- We do.                        

1106
00:51:20,444 --> 00:51:22,212
We were able to follow it       
 essentially right back         

1107
00:51:22,312 --> 00:51:24,214
to the very first camera        
  that we started with          

1108
00:51:24,314 --> 00:51:26,083
at the neighbor's house.        

1109
00:51:26,183 --> 00:51:29,352
   The driver, as you can see,  
turned off the headlights       

1110
00:51:29,453 --> 00:51:31,888
before stopping,                
  apparently trying to          

1111
00:51:31,988 --> 00:51:35,826
  sneak the Mazda back          
   into its driveway.           

1112
00:51:35,926 --> 00:51:39,396
  - Well, there go Matt         
  and Angela's alibis.          

1113
00:51:39,496 --> 00:51:40,697
- Indeed.                       

1114
00:51:40,797 --> 00:51:42,299
  - What are you thinking when  
  you're looking at that video? 

1115
00:51:42,399 --> 00:51:45,001
 - I think that I don't         
 know who the killer is,        

1116
00:51:45,102 --> 00:51:47,504
but somebody from               
that house left that home       

1117
00:51:47,604 --> 00:51:49,172
  to commit the murder          
and then returned               

1118
00:51:49,272 --> 00:51:51,174
  to that home                  
after the murder.               

1119
00:51:51,274 --> 00:51:54,277
 - So then what about that alibi
 given by Angela's best friend, 

1120
00:51:54,377 --> 00:51:57,881
  Karina, who said from         
 her bed in the garage,         

1121
00:51:57,981 --> 00:52:00,917
she was certain she would       
  have heard a vehicle start up 

1122
00:52:01,017 --> 00:52:02,385
 and drive away.                

1123
00:52:02,486 --> 00:52:03,887
   - I think that when          
they pulled out,                

1124
00:52:03,987 --> 00:52:05,789
   they didn't                  
 start the car.                 

1125
00:52:05,889 --> 00:52:08,992
  - How'd you miss it?          
How did you not hear it?        

1126
00:52:09,092 --> 00:52:10,927
 - I don't know.                

1127
00:52:11,027 --> 00:52:13,897
How could                       
I have not known?               

1128
00:52:13,997 --> 00:52:16,199
 If I had known, I could        
  have done something.          

1129
00:52:16,299 --> 00:52:17,767
  If I had even                 
remotely thought                

1130
00:52:17,868 --> 00:52:19,803
  I could have                  
done something...               

1131
00:52:19,903 --> 00:52:21,304
  - If you had                  
   noticed something,           

1132
00:52:21,404 --> 00:52:22,839
  it would have                 
 been too late.                 

1133
00:52:22,939 --> 00:52:25,008
  I don't think you could have  
   saved Annie's life.          

1134
00:52:25,108 --> 00:52:28,712
 - If I had taken those         
   threats seriously,           

1135
00:52:28,812 --> 00:52:31,047
   maybe I could have.          

1136
00:52:31,148 --> 00:52:33,316
  - Detective Turnage,          
   as you might guess,          

1137
00:52:33,416 --> 00:52:36,853
 has a slightly                 
more cynical explanation.       

1138
00:52:36,953 --> 00:52:39,022
  I think she was lying         
 to protect her friend.         

1139
00:52:39,122 --> 00:52:40,757
  - You don't think she         
  could just be wrong.          

1140
00:52:40,857 --> 00:52:42,192
 - I don't think                
 she was wrong.                 

1141
00:52:42,292 --> 00:52:44,995
 - Karina's statement of        
"The car is loud.               

1142
00:52:45,095 --> 00:52:47,063
  "I would have heard it leave, 
   and it never left."          

1143
00:52:47,164 --> 00:52:48,965
 I think that's                 
 a blatant lie.                 

1144
00:52:49,065 --> 00:52:50,767
 - We may never                 
 know the truth.                

1145
00:52:50,867 --> 00:52:55,138
  But with that damning         
security camera footage in hand,

1146
00:52:55,238 --> 00:52:57,407
 detectives next started        
 combing through                

1147
00:52:57,507 --> 00:52:59,709
Matt and Angela's               
  cell phones,                  

1148
00:52:59,809 --> 00:53:02,879
  which the couple had          
voluntarily surrendered.        

1149
00:53:02,979 --> 00:53:05,649
There they found                
  another clue,                 

1150
00:53:05,749 --> 00:53:07,851
 this one about                 
 the bloody shoe prints         

1151
00:53:07,951 --> 00:53:10,987
   found leading from           
   Annie's apartment.           

1152
00:53:11,087 --> 00:53:12,255
   - And we were able to take   
 a look at some of the pictures 

1153
00:53:12,355 --> 00:53:14,257
 in both                        
of their phones.                

1154
00:53:14,357 --> 00:53:16,326
 And we saw that                
 on November 8,                 

1155
00:53:16,426 --> 00:53:20,530
Matt sent Angela                
 a Payless Shoes coupon         

1156
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:22,899
to save money off               
 of a purchase.                 

1157
00:53:22,999 --> 00:53:27,137
  About an hour later,          
   Angela sent Matt a picture   

1158
00:53:27,237 --> 00:53:29,639
  taken at a shoe store         
based on the background.        

1159
00:53:29,739 --> 00:53:31,942
And there were two boots        
in that picture.                

1160
00:53:32,042 --> 00:53:34,411
 Well, we showed                
the picture to a manager        

1161
00:53:34,511 --> 00:53:37,113
at Payless shoes,               
  and the manager said,         

1162
00:53:37,214 --> 00:53:39,883
 "Yes, those are                
 Airwalk Myras."                

1163
00:53:39,983 --> 00:53:41,418
So we know, based               
  on our investigation,         

1164
00:53:41,518 --> 00:53:44,621
that is the tread pattern       
 that we're looking for.        

1165
00:53:44,721 --> 00:53:46,623
 - Then the manager told        
  detectives something          

1166
00:53:46,723 --> 00:53:49,092
  they hadn't expected.         

1167
00:53:49,192 --> 00:53:51,494
 - And the manager said,        
 "That picture was taken        

1168
00:53:51,595 --> 00:53:54,397
   "at our Clackamas,           
Oregon location."               

1169
00:53:54,497 --> 00:53:56,199
 And the reason we know         
 that is because                

1170
00:53:56,299 --> 00:53:57,767
  that's the only store         
 in our district                

1171
00:53:57,867 --> 00:53:59,569
that didn't have                
  the carpet replaced.          

1172
00:53:59,669 --> 00:54:02,339
And that's the old carpet       
you see in that picture.        

1173
00:54:02,439 --> 00:54:05,041
  - That Payless store          
  was about 10 minutes          

1174
00:54:05,141 --> 00:54:07,877
from Matt                       
 and Angela's apartment.        

1175
00:54:07,978 --> 00:54:09,579
  - And the detectives          
   were actually able           

1176
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:12,115
  to walk over and find         
  the exact tile square         

1177
00:54:12,215 --> 00:54:14,184
  where this photograph         
   was taken.                   

1178
00:54:14,284 --> 00:54:16,686
   - Detectives pulled records  
showing that on that day,       

1179
00:54:16,786 --> 00:54:21,124
November 8, seven months        
 before Annie's murder,         

1180
00:54:21,224 --> 00:54:24,761
only one pair of                
 Airwalk Myras was sold.        

1181
00:54:24,861 --> 00:54:27,697
   They were purchased          
   with a credit card.          

1182
00:54:27,797 --> 00:54:31,401
- The credit card holder        
was Angela McCraw-Hester.       

1183
00:54:31,501 --> 00:54:34,070
   So our investigation shows   
that Angela McCraw-Hester       

1184
00:54:34,170 --> 00:54:36,473
purchased a pair                
 of nine and a--                

1185
00:54:36,573 --> 00:54:39,409
  size nine and a half          
 Airwalk Myras.                 

1186
00:54:39,509 --> 00:54:42,345
  That is the same shoe design  
that was stamped                

1187
00:54:42,445 --> 00:54:43,880
   at our crime scene           
in blood.                       

1188
00:54:43,980 --> 00:54:45,448
 - That's pretty                
good police work.               

1189
00:54:45,548 --> 00:54:46,750
 - It's solid, it seems.        

1190
00:54:46,850 --> 00:54:50,553
 - Solid gold, that is,         
  especially if you're looking  

1191
00:54:50,654 --> 00:54:54,324
 to get a judge to issue        
   an arrest warrant.           

1192
00:54:56,059 --> 00:54:58,662
   - Investigators have tough   
  questions for Angela.         

1193
00:54:58,762 --> 00:55:02,265
   But first, she has           
a few of her own.               

1194
00:55:03,667 --> 00:55:06,970
   - Why am I being arrested?   
   You stupid (BLEEP)!          

1195
00:55:07,070 --> 00:55:08,438
 - But what about Matt?         

1196
00:55:08,538 --> 00:55:11,141
 - The murder victim is his ex. 
   - Correct.                   

1197
00:55:11,241 --> 00:55:15,045
 - He's on the hook for         
   40-something large.          

1198
00:55:15,145 --> 00:55:16,279
He's just                       
 the innocent bystander?        

1199
00:55:16,379 --> 00:55:17,981
- Right.                        
  - Or he didn't know anything? 

1200
00:55:18,081 --> 00:55:20,517
  You buy that?                 
  - Not at all.                 

1201
00:55:20,617 --> 00:55:22,319
  At this point, I know he had  
something to do with it.        

1202
00:55:22,419 --> 00:55:24,154
I can't prove it.               

1203
00:55:24,254 --> 00:55:27,257
- When "Dateline:               
  Secrets Uncovered" continues. 

1204
00:55:34,597 --> 00:55:37,133
- Detectives had                
  powerful new evidence         

1205
00:55:37,233 --> 00:55:40,070
  tying someone in Matt         
 and Angela's household         

1206
00:55:40,170 --> 00:55:43,473
  to that silver Mazda          
caught on camera                

1207
00:55:43,573 --> 00:55:47,911
  driving to Annie's apartment  
   on the night of the murder.  

1208
00:55:48,011 --> 00:55:50,480
And now it looked               
   as if Angela Hester          

1209
00:55:50,580 --> 00:55:52,148
had been wearing                
 the boots that had made        

1210
00:55:52,248 --> 00:55:55,585
   those size nine and a half   
   bloody shoe prints.          

1211
00:55:55,685 --> 00:55:59,989
The question was whether        
 anyone had helped her.         

1212
00:56:00,090 --> 00:56:04,694
 It sounds as if you can        
 pretty definitively tie        

1213
00:56:04,794 --> 00:56:07,831
Angela to Annie's murder        
 at that point.                 

1214
00:56:07,931 --> 00:56:10,700
  - Absolutely.                 
 - But not Matt?                

1215
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,602
- We don't have anything        
 on Matt at that point.         

1216
00:56:12,702 --> 00:56:15,238
 - The murder victim is his ex. 
   - Correct.                   

1217
00:56:15,338 --> 00:56:19,275
 - He's on the hook for         
   40-something large.          

1218
00:56:19,376 --> 00:56:20,477
He's just                       
 the innocent bystander?        

1219
00:56:20,577 --> 00:56:22,612
- Right.                        
  - Or he didn't know anything? 

1220
00:56:22,712 --> 00:56:24,781
  You buy that?                 
  - Not at all.                 

1221
00:56:24,881 --> 00:56:26,616
   - At this point, I know he   
  had something to do with it.  

1222
00:56:26,716 --> 00:56:28,184
I can't prove it.               

1223
00:56:28,284 --> 00:56:30,420
   - So investigators           
  kept looking,                 

1224
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,522
and the calendar                
 kept flipping.                 

1225
00:56:32,622 --> 00:56:35,024
- Hello, today is               
   September 5, 2016,           

1226
00:56:35,125 --> 00:56:37,861
  and this is my weekly         
writing video log               

1227
00:56:37,961 --> 00:56:39,362
 of what                        
   I've been up to...           

1228
00:56:39,462 --> 00:56:41,264
- Matt had begun                
 posting updates                

1229
00:56:41,364 --> 00:56:44,134
 about his life                 
   on YouTube.                  

1230
00:56:44,234 --> 00:56:46,536
And what                        
he had been up to               

1231
00:56:46,636 --> 00:56:49,873
was exactly what                
   detectives wanted to know.   

1232
00:56:49,973 --> 00:56:53,476
Still six months,               
   a year, no arrest.           

1233
00:56:54,511 --> 00:56:58,114
 Annie's daughter Alice         
  celebrated her fifth birthday 

1234
00:56:58,214 --> 00:57:01,184
 in the care of                 
Matt and Angela,                

1235
00:57:01,284 --> 00:57:04,788
   the prime suspects           
 in her mother's murder.        

1236
00:57:04,888 --> 00:57:07,123
  - I was very                  
   fearful for Alice.           

1237
00:57:07,223 --> 00:57:09,659
   I was also fearful           
   for my own family.           

1238
00:57:09,759 --> 00:57:11,928
  I was fearful                 
   for myself.                  

1239
00:57:12,028 --> 00:57:15,932
I started walking around        
 with pepper spray in my purse, 

1240
00:57:16,032 --> 00:57:18,001
 and a stun gun,                
 and a Kobotan,                 

1241
00:57:18,101 --> 00:57:20,236
because I didn't                
   feel safe,                   

1242
00:57:20,336 --> 00:57:23,706
 and I definitely didn't        
  feel like my niece was safe.  

1243
00:57:23,807 --> 00:57:26,576
  - It's hard to wait,          
  and not know,                 

1244
00:57:26,676 --> 00:57:29,012
and kind of be in               
that limbo state.               

1245
00:57:29,112 --> 00:57:31,014
  - That limbo went on          
   because detectives           

1246
00:57:31,114 --> 00:57:33,316
  were waiting                  
 on DNA results.                

1247
00:57:33,416 --> 00:57:36,519
   Nothing had matched          
 Matt or Angela                 

1248
00:57:36,619 --> 00:57:40,356
until a lab analyst told        
 police about an advance        

1249
00:57:40,457 --> 00:57:43,193
 in forensic technology         
  that made it possible         

1250
00:57:43,293 --> 00:57:45,094
   to generate                  
  a DNA profile                 

1251
00:57:45,195 --> 00:57:48,031
  with a smaller sample         
  of material.                  

1252
00:57:48,131 --> 00:57:49,532
 Bingo.                         

1253
00:57:49,632 --> 00:57:53,136
It was in October of 2017       
 that Detective Turnage         

1254
00:57:53,236 --> 00:57:56,272
was finally ready               
to make his move.               

1255
00:57:56,372 --> 00:57:59,075
  By that time, Matt and Angela 
 had moved their family,        

1256
00:57:59,175 --> 00:58:01,010
 including young Alice,         

1257
00:58:01,110 --> 00:58:03,880
 650 miles from                 
the Portland area               

1258
00:58:03,980 --> 00:58:07,417
 to a new home,                 
here in Pocatello, Idaho.       

1259
00:58:07,517 --> 00:58:08,585
 First, though,                 

1260
00:58:08,685 --> 00:58:11,221
investigators did               
   some surveillance,           

1261
00:58:11,321 --> 00:58:14,123
and they noticed                
 the Rocky Mountain air         

1262
00:58:14,224 --> 00:58:16,826
  must have had                 
   some magical healing powers  

1263
00:58:16,926 --> 00:58:18,361
for Matt Hester.                

1264
00:58:18,461 --> 00:58:19,462
   - They're going to Costco.   

1265
00:58:19,562 --> 00:58:21,598
Matt is slinging                
 cases of water and soda        

1266
00:58:21,698 --> 00:58:24,534
   all over the place without   
 any kind of ailments or issues.

1267
00:58:24,634 --> 00:58:27,504
 - In fact, the man who         
wanted police to believe        

1268
00:58:27,604 --> 00:58:30,940
  he could barely walk          
  was caught on camera          

1269
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,043
doing chores like               
mowing his lawn.                

1270
00:58:34,143 --> 00:58:39,449
And then, on October 7th,       
law enforcement moved in.       

1271
00:58:39,549 --> 00:58:43,119
   Angela Hester was arrested   
  barefoot and in her pajamas.  

1272
00:58:43,219 --> 00:58:46,189
 She was charged                
  with Annie's murder,          

1273
00:58:46,289 --> 00:58:49,425
 and she did not                
   go quietly.                  

1274
00:58:49,526 --> 00:58:51,194
  - In the car.                 
  - No!                         

1275
00:58:51,294 --> 00:58:52,228
  - In the car.                 

1276
00:58:52,328 --> 00:58:53,496
  I have kids that are          
  gonna be coming home.         

1277
00:58:53,596 --> 00:58:54,531
   Tell me why you're           
  arresting me.                 

1278
00:58:54,631 --> 00:58:56,933
- Get in the car.               

1279
00:58:57,033 --> 00:59:00,603
   - Why am I being arrested?   
   You stupid (BLEEP)!          

1280
00:59:00,703 --> 00:59:04,941
  I have kids.                  
[sobbing]                       

1281
00:59:08,244 --> 00:59:10,847
  - Then at the police station, 
   during questioning,          

1282
00:59:10,947 --> 00:59:14,517
Detective Turnage               
observed a telling clue.        

1283
00:59:15,218 --> 00:59:18,388
  Remember at Annie's funeral,  
 an undercover detective        

1284
00:59:18,488 --> 00:59:21,758
   saw a large cut on the back  
 of Angela's right hand.        

1285
00:59:22,992 --> 00:59:25,295
  - The more we spoke,          
   the more she became focused  

1286
00:59:25,395 --> 00:59:27,530
  on what is now a scar         
on the back of her hand.        

1287
00:59:27,630 --> 00:59:30,800
  She is subconsciously         
   massaging that scar          

1288
00:59:30,900 --> 00:59:32,602
 as we're having                
   this conversation.           

1289
00:59:32,702 --> 00:59:35,872
   And that non verbal          
   was a telltale sign          

1290
00:59:35,972 --> 00:59:37,840
  as to we were talking         
  to the right person.          

1291
00:59:52,956 --> 00:59:56,092
  - By now, detectives          
 knew that wasn't true.         

1292
00:59:56,192 --> 00:59:58,061
 Using that new testing method, 
   they'd already matched DNA   

1293
00:59:58,161 --> 01:00:02,632
  from Angela to blood          
 left on the knife block        

1294
01:00:02,732 --> 01:00:04,701
in Annie Hester's kitchen       

1295
01:00:04,801 --> 01:00:07,570
   and to blood stains          
  in the silver Mazda.          

1296
01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:10,640
  Still, Angela hadn't          
  seemed to understand          

1297
01:00:10,740 --> 01:00:14,410
that DNA had been               
  her undoing.                  

1298
01:00:14,510 --> 01:00:16,245
  - We provided                 
Angela some water               

1299
01:00:16,346 --> 01:00:17,447
 during this interview.         

1300
01:00:17,547 --> 01:00:20,550
  At the end of the interview,  
Angela took the water cup       

1301
01:00:20,650 --> 01:00:24,354
   and a tissue that she had,   
and she held the cup by the rim.

1302
01:00:24,454 --> 01:00:27,123
   She used the tissue to wipe  
what would essentially be       

1303
01:00:27,223 --> 01:00:29,826
  her DNA off, and then         
 used the tissue                

1304
01:00:29,926 --> 01:00:31,594
 to hold the cup                
  as she threw it down          

1305
01:00:31,694 --> 01:00:32,829
  into the garbage can.         

1306
01:00:32,929 --> 01:00:35,565
- She's already given you       
  her DNA at that point, right? 

1307
01:00:35,665 --> 01:00:37,734
  - Correct. But she's          
 had 18 months,                 

1308
01:00:37,834 --> 01:00:40,303
or 16, 18 months                
of wiping her DNA               

1309
01:00:40,403 --> 01:00:41,871
 and cleaning up                
   her trails.                  

1310
01:00:41,971 --> 01:00:44,841
   And the switch just didn't   
  flip inside her mind.         

1311
01:00:44,941 --> 01:00:47,210
  And she wiped her DNA         
 like she'd been doing forever. 

1312
01:00:47,310 --> 01:00:50,246
- Not often that you see        
a murder suspect                

1313
01:00:50,346 --> 01:00:53,449
  trying to dispose of evidence 
  right in front of you         

1314
01:00:53,549 --> 01:00:54,917
 in the interview room.         

1315
01:00:55,018 --> 01:00:56,686
- It's not often.               

1316
01:00:56,786 --> 01:01:00,356
   - Police had suspected Matt  
  and Angela of murder.         

1317
01:01:00,456 --> 01:01:03,693
   Now they had a case          
 against Angela.                

1318
01:01:04,627 --> 01:01:06,129
Oh, and speaking                
of Matt,                        

1319
01:01:06,229 --> 01:01:08,865
he was at                       
the police station, too.        

1320
01:01:08,965 --> 01:01:12,301
Shuffling around,               
  as usual, with great effort.  

1321
01:01:15,805 --> 01:01:17,707
  It seems fair to say          
that Matt Hester                

1322
01:01:17,807 --> 01:01:20,843
   had no idea                  
   what he was in for.          

1323
01:01:47,503 --> 01:01:51,307
The detectives pulled out       
   photos of Annie's autopsy.   

1324
01:02:03,653 --> 01:02:05,655
  Using knives to make          
  those numerals felt,          

1325
01:02:05,755 --> 01:02:09,892
   to police, like an attempt   
by the killer or killers        

1326
01:02:09,992 --> 01:02:12,595
 to focus investigators         
   on Annie's friends           

1327
01:02:12,695 --> 01:02:15,264
in the pirate community.        

1328
01:02:15,364 --> 01:02:18,201
 If that's what it was,         
 it didn't work.                

1329
01:02:18,301 --> 01:02:19,902
And before long,                

1330
01:02:20,002 --> 01:02:23,473
 Matt Hester had                
an epiphany about Angela.       

1331
01:02:28,811 --> 01:02:30,913
   From there,                  
   Matt folded faster           

1332
01:02:31,013 --> 01:02:34,050
 than the overnight crew        
   at the Gap,                  

1333
01:02:34,150 --> 01:02:36,619
admitting that on               
   the evening of the murder,   

1334
01:02:36,719 --> 01:02:40,089
  he was sleeping when          
 sometime around 3:00 AM        

1335
01:02:40,189 --> 01:02:42,558
   Angela woke him up.          

1336
01:03:05,181 --> 01:03:05,948
 Wait a minute.                 

1337
01:03:06,048 --> 01:03:07,083
   He's washing blood           
out of her hair.                

1338
01:03:07,183 --> 01:03:09,418
   Blood's pooling in           
the bottom of the shower,       

1339
01:03:09,519 --> 01:03:11,788
 but at no time                 
  do the words,                 

1340
01:03:11,888 --> 01:03:15,091
 "Honey, what happened"         
 cross his lips.                

1341
01:03:15,191 --> 01:03:17,627
 - That is correct, if--        
 according to his story.        

1342
01:03:39,849 --> 01:03:42,018
That day,                       
the day after the murder,       

1343
01:03:42,118 --> 01:03:44,220
  Matt admitted                 
  cleaning blood stains         

1344
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,390
  from the silver Mazda         
   and lying to police          

1345
01:03:47,490 --> 01:03:49,358
about all of it.                

1346
01:03:49,458 --> 01:03:51,260
  He continued                  
to deny any part                

1347
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,796
 in the planning                
 of the murder,                 

1348
01:03:53,896 --> 01:03:56,999
until that story                
  changed, too.                 

1349
01:04:07,810 --> 01:04:10,479
  And the name                  
  Matt mentioned, well,         

1350
01:04:10,580 --> 01:04:14,517
   it was one that had crossed  
 his wife's lips before.        

1351
01:04:14,617 --> 01:04:18,154
Something about,                
"In good times and bad."        

1352
01:04:21,657 --> 01:04:24,293
- Had Angela been               
 shopping for a hitman?         

1353
01:04:28,865 --> 01:04:30,733
   - Matt threw Angela          
  under the bus                 

1354
01:04:30,833 --> 01:04:32,468
 on those conversations,        
 and said she's the one         

1355
01:04:32,568 --> 01:04:34,270
  that did all                  
  the talking.                  

1356
01:04:34,370 --> 01:04:37,273
- When "Dateline:               
  Secrets Uncovered" continues. 

1357
01:04:38,774 --> 01:04:38,841
   ♪                            

1358
01:04:38,841 --> 01:04:43,145
   ♪♪                           

1359
01:04:43,246 --> 01:04:44,313
 - Welcome back.                

1360
01:04:44,413 --> 01:04:48,184
Police had hard evidence        
   tying Angela Hester          

1361
01:04:48,284 --> 01:04:51,487
 to the murder of her husband's 
  previous wife, Annie.         

1362
01:04:51,587 --> 01:04:53,589
 But what about                 
  Matt Hester?                  

1363
01:04:53,689 --> 01:04:56,225
 He insisted he did not         
  kill his ex.                  

1364
01:04:56,325 --> 01:04:58,227
  But as police                 
   turned up the heat,          

1365
01:04:58,327 --> 01:05:00,796
 Matt let a secret slip.        

1366
01:05:00,897 --> 01:05:04,267
   He now said Angela           
 tried to hire a hitman         

1367
01:05:04,367 --> 01:05:08,537
   and it was someone           
   she knew very well.          

1368
01:05:08,638 --> 01:05:11,507
 Back to Josh Mankiewicz        
   with "The Undoing."          

1369
01:05:13,175 --> 01:05:15,578
- Detective Aaron Turnage       
  had just about had it         

1370
01:05:15,678 --> 01:05:18,881
   with Matt Hester's           
  evasive answers to questions  

1371
01:05:18,981 --> 01:05:22,118
   about who might have helped  
his current wife, Angela,       

1372
01:05:22,218 --> 01:05:25,554
   murder his ex wife, Annie.   

1373
01:05:26,155 --> 01:05:29,025
 Then, about 90 minutes         
 into the interrogation,        

1374
01:05:29,125 --> 01:05:30,960
   Matt dropped this.           

1375
01:05:37,133 --> 01:05:40,002
  Aaron McCraw.                 
  Remember him?                 

1376
01:05:40,102 --> 01:05:42,104
  Angela's ex husband,          

1377
01:05:42,204 --> 01:05:44,407
the father of two               
of her children,                

1378
01:05:44,507 --> 01:05:48,644
   and an occasional roommate   
   at Matt and Angela's place,  

1379
01:05:48,744 --> 01:05:50,780
 someone police                 
had already asked               

1380
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,649
  about his whereabouts         
   on the night of the murder.  

1381
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,256
   It made sense then.          

1382
01:06:00,356 --> 01:06:03,559
Now, police weren't sure.       

1383
01:06:03,659 --> 01:06:05,161
   According to Matt,           
 what was the reasoning         

1384
01:06:05,261 --> 01:06:08,531
   behind hiring Aaron McCraw   
to do the murder?               

1385
01:06:08,631 --> 01:06:11,734
 Is he a killer?                
  - He's not a killer,          

1386
01:06:11,834 --> 01:06:13,669
  uh, you know,                 
   according to Matt.           

1387
01:06:13,769 --> 01:06:15,838
   But he was somebody          
  they knew and trusted         

1388
01:06:15,938 --> 01:06:17,239
 and would agree                
to do it.                       

1389
01:06:21,610 --> 01:06:23,746
Matt told police                
   the discussions with Aaron   

1390
01:06:23,846 --> 01:06:26,482
 happened months                
   before the murder,           

1391
01:06:26,582 --> 01:06:28,217
 in the thick of                
 the child custody fight        

1392
01:06:28,317 --> 01:06:30,286
   over Alice.                  

1393
01:06:30,386 --> 01:06:32,154
   He said he was able          
 to recall some                 

1394
01:06:32,254 --> 01:06:34,457
 of what they'd                 
  talked about.                 

1395
01:06:40,229 --> 01:06:43,265
  Ultimately, Matt said         
   the plan fell apart          

1396
01:06:43,366 --> 01:06:46,702
 because, given                 
   their financial situation,   

1397
01:06:46,802 --> 01:06:49,572
  he and Angela didn't          
 actually have the cash         

1398
01:06:49,672 --> 01:06:51,807
to hire a killer.               

1399
01:06:51,907 --> 01:06:53,175
 And according to Matt,         
 that's the only reason         

1400
01:06:53,275 --> 01:06:54,310
the plan failed.                

1401
01:06:54,410 --> 01:06:55,978
  Not that Aaron said,          

1402
01:06:56,078 --> 01:06:57,613
 "I won't have anything         
to do with that."               

1403
01:06:57,713 --> 01:06:59,615
   - Matt threw Angela          
  under the bus                 

1404
01:06:59,715 --> 01:07:00,716
 on those conversations,        

1405
01:07:00,816 --> 01:07:03,252
 and says she's the one         
that did all the talking.       

1406
01:07:03,352 --> 01:07:06,055
- The thing was,                
  nobody really seemed to know  

1407
01:07:06,155 --> 01:07:09,558
   if Angela committed          
 the murder on her own.         

1408
01:07:09,658 --> 01:07:12,461
  And that gave                 
 the detective an idea.         

1409
01:07:16,298 --> 01:07:18,501
With Aaron McCraw               
 and his fiance                 

1410
01:07:18,601 --> 01:07:21,504
  on their way to Idaho         
   at that very moment          

1411
01:07:21,604 --> 01:07:24,573
   to pick up the kids          
 he shared with Angela,         

1412
01:07:24,673 --> 01:07:27,777
the detective asked Matt        
   to get on the phone          

1413
01:07:27,877 --> 01:07:31,013
 and get Aaron to talk.         

1414
01:07:38,654 --> 01:07:42,425
  Matt agreed,                  
   and minutes later.           

1415
01:08:41,150 --> 01:08:43,119
   - After we hung up,          
  I was going,                  

1416
01:08:43,219 --> 01:08:44,920
 that's a really                
   weird conversation.          

1417
01:08:45,020 --> 01:08:47,223
I bet he's still                
   in police custody.           

1418
01:08:47,323 --> 01:08:51,360
- This is Emily,                
now Aaron McCraw's wife.        

1419
01:08:51,460 --> 01:08:53,929
And Aaron McCraw.               

1420
01:08:54,029 --> 01:08:56,665
What's it been like to be       
  caught in the middle of this? 

1421
01:08:56,765 --> 01:09:01,337
   - It's been very much like   
   being caught in a tornado.   

1422
01:09:02,238 --> 01:09:03,239
- Aaron?                        

1423
01:09:03,339 --> 01:09:05,374
  - I'm just trying not         
  to have a PTSD moment         

1424
01:09:05,474 --> 01:09:06,942
 at the moment.                 

1425
01:09:07,042 --> 01:09:09,278
 - You didn't have PTSD         
before all this?                

1426
01:09:09,378 --> 01:09:10,212
  - No.                         

1427
01:09:10,312 --> 01:09:12,548
  I had panic attacks.          
  I...                          

1428
01:09:12,648 --> 01:09:13,582
 - That's right.                

1429
01:09:13,682 --> 01:09:16,085
Aaron McCraw says               
  that after that call,         

1430
01:09:16,185 --> 01:09:18,420
  police brought him in         
  for an interrogation          

1431
01:09:18,521 --> 01:09:19,955
and a polygraph,                

1432
01:09:20,055 --> 01:09:23,292
 and that's what                
 gave him PTSD,                 

1433
01:09:23,392 --> 01:09:25,561
for which he says               
   he's been diagnosed          

1434
01:09:25,661 --> 01:09:27,930
  and takes medication.         

1435
01:09:28,030 --> 01:09:31,467
   - I don't remember           
any of the-the interview        

1436
01:09:31,567 --> 01:09:34,136
  or anything like that         
  in Pocatello.                 

1437
01:09:34,236 --> 01:09:36,438
   Like, my brain has           
   completely blocked it out.   

1438
01:09:36,539 --> 01:09:38,207
- You didn't get                
the PTSD in the military,       

1439
01:09:38,307 --> 01:09:40,309
  and you didn't get it         
 from some violent event        

1440
01:09:40,409 --> 01:09:41,277
in your own life?               

1441
01:09:41,377 --> 01:09:42,778
   [coughing]                   
  - No.                         

1442
01:09:42,878 --> 01:09:44,914
- You got it from               
  being asked questions         

1443
01:09:45,014 --> 01:09:48,751
   about that murder,           
  just like I'm asking you now. 

1444
01:09:48,851 --> 01:09:50,586
- Mm-hmm.                       
  - The difference is,          

1445
01:09:50,686 --> 01:09:53,022
   I'm not threatening          
to arrest you afterwards.       

1446
01:09:53,122 --> 01:09:55,491
- Mm-hmm.                       
- Mm-hmm.                       

1447
01:09:55,591 --> 01:09:58,994
  - You don't remember the call 
 where Matt says to you,        

1448
01:09:59,094 --> 01:10:02,231
   "Remember that time I tried  
 to get you to kill Anastasia?" 

1449
01:10:02,331 --> 01:10:04,600
  - No.                         

1450
01:10:04,700 --> 01:10:07,436
 - But you remember that        
   that didn't happen.          

1451
01:10:07,536 --> 01:10:08,470
 - Yeah.                        

1452
01:10:08,571 --> 01:10:10,005
   - You never had any          
 conversation with Matt         

1453
01:10:10,105 --> 01:10:11,640
 about killing anybody?         

1454
01:10:11,740 --> 01:10:13,676
  - No.                         
- Okay, that's--                

1455
01:10:13,776 --> 01:10:14,710
I just want to be clear.        

1456
01:10:14,810 --> 01:10:15,778
  That's not something          
that you don't remember.        

1457
01:10:15,878 --> 01:10:17,846
You remember that               
   that didn't happen.          

1458
01:10:17,947 --> 01:10:19,315
- Mm-hmm.                       

1459
01:10:19,415 --> 01:10:23,252
- Aaron, hypothetically,        
   if Matt ever had asked you   

1460
01:10:23,352 --> 01:10:27,590
to kill Anastasia, Annie,       
what would you have said?       

1461
01:10:27,690 --> 01:10:29,225
   - Hell, no.                  
  End of story.                 

1462
01:10:29,325 --> 01:10:32,127
  Walked away.                  
  - Why would he make that up?  

1463
01:10:32,228 --> 01:10:34,063
Why would he drag               
 you into this?                 

1464
01:10:34,163 --> 01:10:35,364
- The only thing                
 I can think of                 

1465
01:10:35,464 --> 01:10:37,233
   is to keep                   
the kids from me.               

1466
01:10:37,333 --> 01:10:39,969
  - Through this whole process, 
   they've never wanted Aaron   

1467
01:10:40,069 --> 01:10:41,870
 to have custody                
  of the kids.                  

1468
01:10:41,971 --> 01:10:43,472
- So you think this whole       
  thing about you being         

1469
01:10:43,572 --> 01:10:47,443
  a proposed hitman is          
 just made up from them?        

1470
01:10:47,543 --> 01:10:48,911
 - Yes.                         

1471
01:10:49,011 --> 01:10:53,515
- Detective Turnage does        
not buy Aaron's denials.        

1472
01:10:53,616 --> 01:10:54,717
  - I do believe there          
   were conversations           

1473
01:10:54,817 --> 01:10:56,852
between Matt, and Angela,       
and Aaron McCraw                

1474
01:10:56,952 --> 01:10:57,920
about the murder.               

1475
01:10:58,020 --> 01:11:00,556
- Well, depending on when       
  and how you ask him,          

1476
01:11:00,656 --> 01:11:03,125
Aaron either says               
   that didn't happen,          

1477
01:11:03,225 --> 01:11:06,829
  or he says if it did happen,  
  I don't remember it.          

1478
01:11:06,929 --> 01:11:08,597
   And he says                  
   he has PTSD                  

1479
01:11:08,697 --> 01:11:10,866
   from you asking him          
   questions about it.          

1480
01:11:10,966 --> 01:11:12,801
   Do you believe any of that?  
  - No.                         

1481
01:11:12,901 --> 01:11:14,603
  - You think his PTSD          
   is an act?                   

1482
01:11:14,703 --> 01:11:16,505
- I do think it's an act        
   to get away from answering   

1483
01:11:16,605 --> 01:11:17,873
  the tough questions.          

1484
01:11:17,973 --> 01:11:20,242
  - Police admit there          
  is no evidence, none,         

1485
01:11:20,342 --> 01:11:23,646
  other than the claims         
   made by Matt Hester          

1486
01:11:23,746 --> 01:11:26,148
that Aaron McCraw               
 talked about hiring on         

1487
01:11:26,248 --> 01:11:28,450
   as a hitman                  
 to kill Annie.                 

1488
01:11:28,550 --> 01:11:31,153
   Why do you think they would  
 just take Matt's word?         

1489
01:11:31,253 --> 01:11:33,255
- I have no idea.               
- They did believe Matt.        

1490
01:11:33,355 --> 01:11:37,192
   In fact, they think          
you're lying now.               

1491
01:11:37,293 --> 01:11:38,827
   Nothing you can do           
  about that, I guess.          

1492
01:11:38,927 --> 01:11:40,829
  - No.                         
  - No.                         

1493
01:11:40,929 --> 01:11:44,967
  - A lot of questions,         
  not as many answers.          

1494
01:11:45,067 --> 01:11:46,635
   And so both                  
  Aaron McCraw                  

1495
01:11:46,735 --> 01:11:50,539
   and Matt Hester walked out   
  of the police station         

1496
01:11:50,639 --> 01:11:52,675
  as free men.                  

1497
01:11:52,775 --> 01:11:55,077
  So, the end?                  

1498
01:11:55,177 --> 01:11:58,414
   Not by a long shot.          

1499
01:12:01,483 --> 01:12:04,219
- You know what they say.       
Follow the money.               

1500
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,423
 - She said that she'd received 
a call from Matt Hester,        

1501
01:12:07,523 --> 01:12:09,458
 and Matt Hester wanted         
to know how he could get        

1502
01:12:09,558 --> 01:12:12,861
a payout of the $100,000        
  life insurance policy         

1503
01:12:12,961 --> 01:12:13,929
 that Annie had,                

1504
01:12:14,029 --> 01:12:16,498
 that he believed he was        
   the beneficiary of.          

1505
01:12:16,598 --> 01:12:19,501
- When "Dateline:               
  Secrets Uncovered" continues. 

1506
01:12:21,103 --> 01:12:21,170
   ♪                            

1507
01:12:21,170 --> 01:12:25,541
   ♪♪                           

1508
01:12:28,510 --> 01:12:31,246
   - Angela Hester was          
 under arrest in Idaho.         

1509
01:12:31,347 --> 01:12:33,882
 And then investigators         
 served a search warrant        

1510
01:12:33,982 --> 01:12:36,185
  and collected                 
  from her any evidence         

1511
01:12:36,285 --> 01:12:38,454
   they needed                  
 for their case.                

1512
01:12:38,554 --> 01:12:41,590
   Before long, Angela was on   
 her way back to Oregon         

1513
01:12:41,690 --> 01:12:45,027
  in handcuffs,                 
on a charge that carried        

1514
01:12:45,127 --> 01:12:46,195
   the death penalty.           

1515
01:12:46,295 --> 01:12:50,366
 - It was one of                
 the most brutal crimes         

1516
01:12:50,466 --> 01:12:52,334
 that I've ever                 
participated in,                

1517
01:12:52,434 --> 01:12:54,703
  in the investigation          
and prosecution.                

1518
01:12:54,803 --> 01:12:56,205
   - Prosecutor David Hannah.   

1519
01:12:56,305 --> 01:12:57,706
- It was a home invasion,       

1520
01:12:57,806 --> 01:12:59,508
a break-in in the middle        
  of the night,                 

1521
01:12:59,608 --> 01:13:01,643
someone startled                
from their sleep,               

1522
01:13:01,744 --> 01:13:03,746
 stabbed multiple times.        

1523
01:13:03,846 --> 01:13:05,681
 It's one of the scariest cases 
 I've ever seen.                

1524
01:13:05,781 --> 01:13:08,450
  And not just murder,          
  like torture.                 

1525
01:13:08,550 --> 01:13:09,985
   - That's how we charge it.   
   Absolutely.                  

1526
01:13:10,085 --> 01:13:14,022
   The amount of violence, uh,  
that Annie had to endure        

1527
01:13:14,123 --> 01:13:16,191
 is really unspeakable.         

1528
01:13:16,291 --> 01:13:19,027
   - Angela was facing          
   a lethal injection,          

1529
01:13:19,128 --> 01:13:20,429
and Matt?                       

1530
01:13:20,529 --> 01:13:24,566
   Well, he wasn't facing much  
of a life change at all.        

1531
01:13:24,666 --> 01:13:26,435
  In fact, even though          
  he'd admitted                 

1532
01:13:26,535 --> 01:13:28,170
to participating                
 in discussions                 

1533
01:13:28,270 --> 01:13:31,840
   related to Annie's murder,   
  cleaning up blood afterward,  

1534
01:13:31,940 --> 01:13:34,143
 and then lying                 
   to police,                   

1535
01:13:34,243 --> 01:13:37,613
 Matt faced only                
   a resisting arrest charge,   

1536
01:13:37,713 --> 01:13:39,381
which was                       
later dismissed.                

1537
01:13:39,481 --> 01:13:40,416
 And he returned                
  to the house                  

1538
01:13:40,516 --> 01:13:43,719
   he'd shared                  
with Angela in Pocatello.       

1539
01:13:43,819 --> 01:13:45,788
  The place was                 
  mostly empty.                 

1540
01:13:45,888 --> 01:13:48,724
  All four kids dumped          
into foster care,               

1541
01:13:48,824 --> 01:13:51,326
 including little Alice.        

1542
01:13:51,427 --> 01:13:53,495
 Only their very                
   committed roommate,          

1543
01:13:53,595 --> 01:13:57,699
  Angela's best friend,         
Karina, was still there.        

1544
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:02,271
What's going on with him?       
  - Absolutely nothing.         

1545
01:14:02,371 --> 01:14:03,705
  - He's still sitting          
 in his recliner                

1546
01:14:03,806 --> 01:14:06,909
  playing video games.          
- No, he sat on his bed,        

1547
01:14:07,009 --> 01:14:09,178
   played video games           
 the whole time                 

1548
01:14:09,278 --> 01:14:12,614
 while I worked,                
  and worked overtime.          

1549
01:14:12,714 --> 01:14:16,618
  I mean, look,                 
   if you think he's involved,  

1550
01:14:16,718 --> 01:14:19,488
then why are you letting        
   him live with you?           

1551
01:14:19,588 --> 01:14:21,223
 - Because I had                
 my computer on                 

1552
01:14:21,323 --> 01:14:23,759
and I was hoping he would       
say something so he'd go.       

1553
01:14:23,859 --> 01:14:27,896
 And turned out to be all he did
  was sit in his room.          

1554
01:14:28,964 --> 01:14:31,767
 - Finally, said Karina,        
   she kicked him out.          

1555
01:14:31,867 --> 01:14:34,636
 Matt went to live with         
  a friend in Washington state. 

1556
01:14:34,736 --> 01:14:37,206
As for police in Gresham,       
   they kept working,           

1557
01:14:37,306 --> 01:14:40,209
 trying to find evidence        
  tying Matt to Annie's murder. 

1558
01:14:40,309 --> 01:14:42,277
   And now would seem           
a good time to tell you,        

1559
01:14:42,377 --> 01:14:44,012
   they did find this.          

1560
01:14:44,112 --> 01:14:45,547
  A week after                  
   the murder,                  

1561
01:14:45,647 --> 01:14:48,116
Detective Turnage               
 received a phone call.         

1562
01:14:48,217 --> 01:14:52,287
 It was from a woman who worked 
  at a life insurance company.  

1563
01:14:52,387 --> 01:14:55,591
 - She said that she'd received 
a call from Matt Hester.        

1564
01:14:55,691 --> 01:14:58,227
 And Matt Hester wanted to know 
how he could get a payout       

1565
01:14:58,327 --> 01:15:00,963
 of the $100,000                
  life insurance policy         

1566
01:15:01,063 --> 01:15:02,097
 that Annie had,                

1567
01:15:02,197 --> 01:15:04,433
 that he believed he was        
   the beneficiary of.          

1568
01:15:04,533 --> 01:15:06,335
 - 100k.                        

1569
01:15:06,435 --> 01:15:09,438
   Okay, minus the money Matt   
   owed in back child support   

1570
01:15:09,538 --> 01:15:11,106
 and legal fees.                

1571
01:15:11,206 --> 01:15:12,708
I'll do the math for you.       

1572
01:15:12,808 --> 01:15:14,376
 Matt apparently thought        
 he'd come away                 

1573
01:15:14,476 --> 01:15:18,080
   with a clean slate,          
 and more than $50,000.         

1574
01:15:19,281 --> 01:15:22,885
  That's a lot of money         
 if you're in his shoes.        

1575
01:15:22,985 --> 01:15:26,421
A piece of knowledge that       
   somehow eluded Matt          

1576
01:15:26,522 --> 01:15:30,893
   was that Annie actually had  
  two life insurance policies.  

1577
01:15:30,993 --> 01:15:34,696
 One from work,                 
another personal.               

1578
01:15:34,796 --> 01:15:36,765
   Total value                  
of both policies?               

1579
01:15:36,865 --> 01:15:39,167
   I believe $125,000.          

1580
01:15:39,268 --> 01:15:43,972
- The surprise for Matt,        
   he was entitled to neither.  

1581
01:15:44,072 --> 01:15:45,908
Who was the beneficiary?        

1582
01:15:46,008 --> 01:15:49,745
 - Well, when the policy        
was originally initiated,       

1583
01:15:49,845 --> 01:15:51,713
  it was Matt.                  

1584
01:15:51,813 --> 01:15:52,514
They were married               
  at the time,                  

1585
01:15:52,614 --> 01:15:54,049
 but after they                 
  got divorced,                 

1586
01:15:54,149 --> 01:15:56,451
  Annie went in                 
   and had it changed.          

1587
01:15:56,552 --> 01:15:59,588
 The main one is                
Annie's mom, beneficiary.       

1588
01:15:59,688 --> 01:16:04,126
 The work one of $25,000        
   was in the daughter's name.  

1589
01:16:04,226 --> 01:16:05,227
  - And the woman from          
  the insurance company         

1590
01:16:05,327 --> 01:16:08,096
   told you that Matt           
  clearly had not known         

1591
01:16:08,196 --> 01:16:10,132
  that he was no longer         
the beneficiary.                

1592
01:16:10,232 --> 01:16:11,300
   - Correct.                   

1593
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,736
  - To a suspicious guy         
 like Detective Turnage,        

1594
01:16:14,836 --> 01:16:17,072
   the idea that Matt           
  thought Annie's death         

1595
01:16:17,172 --> 01:16:21,343
might get him out of debt       
felt significant.               

1596
01:16:21,443 --> 01:16:24,112
And together with               
 all the other evidence,        

1597
01:16:24,212 --> 01:16:27,482
what it felt like               
   was motive.                  

1598
01:16:27,583 --> 01:16:29,952
  And so, in June 2019,         

1599
01:16:30,052 --> 01:16:33,088
   a full three years           
  after Annie's murder,         

1600
01:16:33,188 --> 01:16:35,757
  investigators finally         
 made their move                

1601
01:16:35,857 --> 01:16:38,560
  and took Matt Hester          
  into custody.                 

1602
01:16:38,660 --> 01:16:40,963
 - I have no idea what's        
   going on yet, so...          

1603
01:16:41,063 --> 01:16:42,931
   - If that was true,          
   it might have meant          

1604
01:16:43,031 --> 01:16:47,002
  only that Matt didn't         
  yet know the specific charge  

1605
01:16:47,102 --> 01:16:48,370
 he'd be facing.                

1606
01:16:48,470 --> 01:16:51,840
   - You are under arrest for   
   conspiracy to commit murder  

1607
01:16:51,940 --> 01:16:54,042
and solicitation                
to commit murder,               

1608
01:16:54,142 --> 01:16:55,677
  the murder of                 
Anastasia Hester.               

1609
01:16:55,777 --> 01:16:57,779
 That is why we're here         
 talking to you.                

1610
01:16:57,879 --> 01:16:59,481
  Signature on                  
   that line, please.           

1611
01:16:59,581 --> 01:17:01,049
If you choose to                
   waive your rights.           

1612
01:17:01,149 --> 01:17:02,517
  - No, I would                 
 like a lawyer.                 

1613
01:17:02,618 --> 01:17:04,152
- We charged Matt               
for solicitation                

1614
01:17:04,252 --> 01:17:06,221
   based on his own admissions  
that he solicited               

1615
01:17:06,321 --> 01:17:08,757
  Aaron McCraw                  
 to kill Annie.                 

1616
01:17:08,857 --> 01:17:11,026
  We had corroborative evidence 
   to that confession           

1617
01:17:11,126 --> 01:17:13,996
  based on his behavior         
  before the homicide,          

1618
01:17:14,096 --> 01:17:16,331
with his motive,                
  and after the murder,         

1619
01:17:16,431 --> 01:17:18,333
  based on him                  
trying to collect               

1620
01:17:18,433 --> 01:17:21,036
   on what he thought           
   was the beneficiary          

1621
01:17:21,136 --> 01:17:24,773
  of the life insurance policy, 
   as well as the fact          

1622
01:17:24,873 --> 01:17:26,274
  that we knew                  
physical evidence               

1623
01:17:26,375 --> 01:17:28,977
 was destroyed,                 
 and him admitting to it        

1624
01:17:29,077 --> 01:17:31,980
  by cleaning up Angela         
after the murder.               

1625
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:34,082
   - All right, Matt.           
   Thank you so much.           

1626
01:17:34,182 --> 01:17:36,084
   It was nice                  
seeing you again.               

1627
01:17:36,184 --> 01:17:40,389
 - Matt and Angela Hester would 
  soon be under one roof again, 

1628
01:17:40,489 --> 01:17:44,159
   not at their home,           
   at a Portland area slammer.  

1629
01:17:44,259 --> 01:17:48,296
So now the question was,        
   who'd turn on who?           

1630
01:17:49,231 --> 01:17:51,366
You already know                
  how it goes.                  

1631
01:17:51,466 --> 01:17:55,470
  First squeal                  
 gets the deal.                 

1632
01:17:58,874 --> 01:18:03,145
  Matt gets locked up,          
 and Angela's locked up.        

1633
01:18:03,245 --> 01:18:04,980
This is the time                
when one of them                

1634
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,549
   rolls on the other, right?   
   - Correct.                   

1635
01:18:07,649 --> 01:18:10,719
- Who, if anyone,               
  talks first?                  

1636
01:18:10,819 --> 01:18:13,555
   - Love's a wonderful thing.  
  - It's a tight bond.          

1637
01:18:13,655 --> 01:18:16,491
- When "Dateline:               
  Secrets Uncovered" continues. 

1638
01:18:18,326 --> 01:18:18,393
   ♪                            

1639
01:18:18,393 --> 01:18:23,465
   ♪♪                           

1640
01:18:23,565 --> 01:18:26,034
 - There's an old saying        
in criminal law.                

1641
01:18:26,134 --> 01:18:30,005
 Whoever gets to                
   the courthouse first wins.   

1642
01:18:30,105 --> 01:18:34,109
  Meaning the first one         
 to spill can cut a deal        

1643
01:18:34,209 --> 01:18:36,812
   in exchange                  
for cooperation.                

1644
01:18:36,912 --> 01:18:40,549
   And maybe less time          
  in the joint.                 

1645
01:18:40,649 --> 01:18:44,386
 So Matt gets locked up,        
 and Angela's locked up.        

1646
01:18:45,887 --> 01:18:47,656
This is the time                
when one of them                

1647
01:18:47,756 --> 01:18:49,524
   rolls on the other, right?   

1648
01:18:49,624 --> 01:18:51,026
   - Correct.                   

1649
01:18:51,126 --> 01:18:53,495
   - Matt had pleaded           
  not guilty to charges         

1650
01:18:53,595 --> 01:18:56,164
  of conspiracy                 
to murder Annie,                

1651
01:18:56,264 --> 01:18:58,900
   as well as to solicitation   
   in connection with           

1652
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:03,705
what prosecutors said was       
a plot to hire a hitman,        

1653
01:19:03,805 --> 01:19:07,008
  and to hindering prosecution. 

1654
01:19:07,109 --> 01:19:09,211
   Angela had pleaded           
  not guilty to charges         

1655
01:19:09,311 --> 01:19:11,480
  of aggravated murder.         

1656
01:19:11,580 --> 01:19:14,216
She faced                       
   the death penalty.           

1657
01:19:14,316 --> 01:19:17,352
 - We believed that this        
 was a very strong case         

1658
01:19:17,452 --> 01:19:19,855
  that we felt very comfortable 
taking to trial.                

1659
01:19:19,955 --> 01:19:23,158
   - The big development came   
  from Oregon's state capitol.  

1660
01:19:23,258 --> 01:19:25,594
  Before Angela                 
 could be tried,                

1661
01:19:25,694 --> 01:19:29,531
state legislators in 2019       
   narrowed the crimes          

1662
01:19:29,631 --> 01:19:32,033
  eligible for                  
   the death penalty.           

1663
01:19:32,134 --> 01:19:34,903
 - When the legislature         
   changed the murder statute   

1664
01:19:35,003 --> 01:19:38,740
   prior to our trial,          
   our charges did not qualify  

1665
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:40,408
  as aggravated murder.         

1666
01:19:40,509 --> 01:19:41,643
  When the law changed,         

1667
01:19:41,743 --> 01:19:44,212
 it qualified as murder         
  in the first degree.          

1668
01:19:44,312 --> 01:19:46,715
   So immediately when          
the law changed,                

1669
01:19:46,815 --> 01:19:51,787
   the death penalty was never  
   a possibility in this case.  

1670
01:19:51,887 --> 01:19:53,889
   - That was                   
one complication.               

1671
01:19:53,989 --> 01:19:55,657
   The other was this.          

1672
01:19:55,757 --> 01:19:58,894
  Angela wasn't talking         
   with police or prosecutors   

1673
01:19:58,994 --> 01:20:02,597
about a plea deal               
or anything else.               

1674
01:20:02,697 --> 01:20:05,066
 - We actually never had        
a conversation with her.        

1675
01:20:05,167 --> 01:20:06,902
 - As for Matt,                 
 who was facing                 

1676
01:20:07,002 --> 01:20:10,205
   only eight and a half years  
  behind bars,                  

1677
01:20:10,305 --> 01:20:12,874
  I absolutely thought          
   that by the time, you know,  

1678
01:20:12,974 --> 01:20:15,544
 Matt's defense counsel         
 read through discovery,        

1679
01:20:15,644 --> 01:20:17,279
that there would                
   be a conversation.           

1680
01:20:17,379 --> 01:20:18,680
 - And that conversation        
would have been,                

1681
01:20:18,780 --> 01:20:20,916
 if you testify against         
   your wife,                   

1682
01:20:21,016 --> 01:20:22,984
 you might knock                
 some years off.                

1683
01:20:23,084 --> 01:20:24,119
   - Correct.                   

1684
01:20:24,219 --> 01:20:26,488
   But when we went to          
   those interviews with Matt,  

1685
01:20:26,588 --> 01:20:29,057
Matt continued to               
   tell obvious lies,           

1686
01:20:29,157 --> 01:20:30,992
things that just                
 defied reality.                

1687
01:20:31,092 --> 01:20:34,529
 And we decided                 
 that he was not willing        

1688
01:20:34,629 --> 01:20:36,965
to have an honest               
  conversation with us.         

1689
01:20:37,065 --> 01:20:38,400
 - But he won't                 
  roll on her,                  

1690
01:20:38,500 --> 01:20:40,135
  and she won't                 
  roll on him.                  

1691
01:20:40,235 --> 01:20:41,203
   - Correct.                   

1692
01:20:41,303 --> 01:20:44,172
   - Love's a wonderful thing.  
 - A tight bond.                

1693
01:20:44,272 --> 01:20:48,143
  And so the first shoe         
 fell in November 2020.         

1694
01:20:48,243 --> 01:20:49,978
 If you've been                 
 keeping track,                 

1695
01:20:50,078 --> 01:20:53,148
  it was a size                 
nine and a half.                

1696
01:20:53,248 --> 01:20:56,818
  Angela Hester pleaded         
   guilty to murdering Annie.   

1697
01:20:56,918 --> 01:21:00,522
  Her sentence,                 
   25 to life.                  

1698
01:21:00,622 --> 01:21:03,625
   She'll be eligible           
   to apply for parole          

1699
01:21:03,725 --> 01:21:07,996
in 2042,                        
   when she'll be 60.           

1700
01:21:08,096 --> 01:21:10,365
 - From our perspective,        
   given the brutality          

1701
01:21:10,465 --> 01:21:14,102
  of this offense, we felt that 
the possibility of parole       

1702
01:21:14,202 --> 01:21:16,938
   was far more remote          
   than other types of cases.   

1703
01:21:17,038 --> 01:21:18,273
- You're going to show up       
   at a parole hearing          

1704
01:21:18,373 --> 01:21:20,375
 25 years later?                
  - I hope so,                  

1705
01:21:20,475 --> 01:21:22,344
  if I'm still walking          
  around on this earth.         

1706
01:21:22,444 --> 01:21:23,511
   Absolutely.                  

1707
01:21:23,612 --> 01:21:26,414
   - Angela has not responded   
  to our many requests          

1708
01:21:26,514 --> 01:21:28,083
for an interview.               

1709
01:21:28,183 --> 01:21:32,120
However, her best friend,       
   Karina, still visits Angela  

1710
01:21:32,220 --> 01:21:34,022
in the big house,               

1711
01:21:34,122 --> 01:21:37,626
 and says that when she         
   asks Angela about the case,  

1712
01:21:37,726 --> 01:21:39,761
  she gets this answer.         

1713
01:21:39,861 --> 01:21:41,196
  - She said she wasn't         
   talking about that.          

1714
01:21:41,296 --> 01:21:43,465
That was between                
  her and God.                  

1715
01:21:43,565 --> 01:21:46,101
- As for Annie's                
  best friend, Nicole,          

1716
01:21:46,201 --> 01:21:48,536
   she's taken                  
  a perhaps unorthodox          

1717
01:21:48,637 --> 01:21:52,173
  and sympathetic view          
 toward Angela.                 

1718
01:21:52,274 --> 01:21:54,476
 - I can't believe that         
Angela would let herself        

1719
01:21:54,576 --> 01:21:58,847
  get played like that          
   because, you know,           

1720
01:21:58,947 --> 01:22:00,615
   she's a victim here          
  in this, too,                 

1721
01:22:00,715 --> 01:22:02,851
   in a sense.                  
  - Angela is?                  

1722
01:22:02,951 --> 01:22:05,654
 - Yeah, she did                
   Matt's dirty work,           

1723
01:22:05,754 --> 01:22:08,390
and now her life                
   is ruined as well.           

1724
01:22:08,490 --> 01:22:11,626
 - I mean, Angela was in        
   Annie's apartment.           

1725
01:22:11,726 --> 01:22:13,461
Angela did the stabbing.        

1726
01:22:13,561 --> 01:22:15,597
But you think it might as       
   well have been Matt's hand   

1727
01:22:15,697 --> 01:22:17,399
  on the knife.                 

1728
01:22:17,499 --> 01:22:20,302
  - Absolutely.                 
Angela was Matt's weapon.       

1729
01:22:21,303 --> 01:22:23,538
  - And Matt, he didn't         
 respond to our requests        

1730
01:22:23,638 --> 01:22:25,507
 for interviews either.         

1731
01:22:25,607 --> 01:22:28,343
  But he did eventually         
  take a deal,                  

1732
01:22:28,443 --> 01:22:32,814
one that did not require        
  flipping on his better half.  

1733
01:22:32,914 --> 01:22:36,151
 In August 2021,                
   prosecutors dropped          

1734
01:22:36,251 --> 01:22:38,553
 the conspiracy                 
 to commit murder charge        

1735
01:22:38,653 --> 01:22:42,390
in an effort to preserve        
   their shot at maybe one day  

1736
01:22:42,490 --> 01:22:44,960
  filing murder charges         
   against him                  

1737
01:22:45,060 --> 01:22:48,396
 and avoiding any issues        
  with double jeopardy.         

1738
01:22:48,496 --> 01:22:52,534
In exchange, Matt pleaded       
 guilty to hindering prosecution

1739
01:22:52,634 --> 01:22:56,972
and to soliciting               
   Aaron McCraw to kill Annie.  

1740
01:22:57,072 --> 01:22:59,574
 A judge Sentenced Matt         
 to less than five years        

1741
01:22:59,674 --> 01:23:04,179
  in prison, and he was         
paroled in 2023.                

1742
01:23:04,279 --> 01:23:06,514
 It's an outcome                
 that left many feeling         

1743
01:23:06,614 --> 01:23:11,052
 as if justice was both         
   delayed and denied.          

1744
01:23:11,152 --> 01:23:13,254
You think Matt's getting        
 away with murder here?         

1745
01:23:13,355 --> 01:23:14,556
 - I really do.                 

1746
01:23:14,656 --> 01:23:16,591
He should have also been        
  charged with murder.          

1747
01:23:16,691 --> 01:23:19,294
  - When we last spoke          
 with Detective Turnage,        

1748
01:23:19,394 --> 01:23:22,230
he said he hoped                
   that day will come.          

1749
01:23:22,330 --> 01:23:23,264
 You think we've                
  seen the last charges         

1750
01:23:23,365 --> 01:23:25,467
 filed in this?                 
   - I don't think so.          

1751
01:23:25,567 --> 01:23:27,002
  - You don't think so          
or you hope not?                

1752
01:23:27,102 --> 01:23:27,936
 - Both.                        

1753
01:23:28,036 --> 01:23:29,104
 The courts have                
   left it open where,          

1754
01:23:29,204 --> 01:23:31,873
if we find more evidence,       
specifically Matt Hester        

1755
01:23:31,973 --> 01:23:33,942
could be charged,               
 you know, with murder.         

1756
01:23:34,042 --> 01:23:36,044
   If we find evidence showing  
 that he is responsible         

1757
01:23:36,144 --> 01:23:38,747
  for it or knew about          
 or participated ahead of time. 

1758
01:23:38,847 --> 01:23:39,948
   - You think that's           
 what happened?                 

1759
01:23:40,048 --> 01:23:41,783
  - I think Matt Hester         
  had a lot more to do          

1760
01:23:41,883 --> 01:23:45,553
with this murder                
   than he has let on.          

1761
01:23:45,653 --> 01:23:48,289
  - Here's what police          
   think happened that night.   

1762
01:23:48,390 --> 01:23:50,125
  After losing                  
the custody case,               

1763
01:23:50,225 --> 01:23:53,361
   Matt and Angela were angry   
due to both the decision        

1764
01:23:53,461 --> 01:23:56,197
  and the debts                 
 they now owed.                 

1765
01:23:56,297 --> 01:23:58,266
   Detectives believe           
  they tried and failed         

1766
01:23:58,366 --> 01:24:01,703
to hire a hitman                
  before Angela decided         

1767
01:24:01,803 --> 01:24:03,938
 to just do it herself.         

1768
01:24:04,039 --> 01:24:06,174
 There's no sign                
anyone but Angela               

1769
01:24:06,274 --> 01:24:08,143
was in Annie's apartment.       

1770
01:24:08,243 --> 01:24:11,813
   So did Matt                  
or someone else help her,       

1771
01:24:11,913 --> 01:24:15,683
   advise her,                  
or drive her across town?       

1772
01:24:15,784 --> 01:24:18,186
   Right now,                   
 there's no way to know.        

1773
01:24:21,556 --> 01:24:25,193
As for Alice, the product       
 of Matt and Annie's marriage...

1774
01:24:27,328 --> 01:24:29,264
  It took years                 
  of fighting in court,         

1775
01:24:29,364 --> 01:24:32,767
 but Annie's mom                
was allowed to adopt her.       

1776
01:24:32,867 --> 01:24:35,203
  Alice, we were told,          
   is a happy                   

1777
01:24:35,303 --> 01:24:37,338
and well adjusted               
  little girl.                  

1778
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:40,075
And after the parental whirlwind
   she was caught in,           

1779
01:24:40,175 --> 01:24:43,912
 where the lines between        
love, and hate, and money       

1780
01:24:44,012 --> 01:24:47,148
  were blurred                  
again and again,                

1781
01:24:47,248 --> 01:24:49,751
 maybe coming through it        
  in one piece                  

1782
01:24:49,851 --> 01:24:52,253
   is the best possible news.   

1783
01:24:52,353 --> 01:24:54,823
 So we saved it                 
for last.                       

1784
01:24:56,091 --> 01:24:57,258
  - That's all                  
for this edition                

1785
01:24:57,358 --> 01:24:59,627
  of "Dateline:                 
   Secrets Uncovered."          

1786
01:24:59,727 --> 01:25:02,397
I'm Craig Melvin.               
 Thank you for watching.