1 00:00:12,245 --> 00:00:12,645 I'm Craig Melvin, 2 00:00:13,513 --> 00:00:18,184 and this is "Dateline: 3 00:00:13,513 --> 00:00:18,184 Secrets Uncovered". 4 00:00:18,184 --> 00:00:21,221 - If you admit that she's 5 00:00:18,184 --> 00:00:21,221 never coming home, 6 00:00:21,221 --> 00:00:25,525 it's like you're admitting 7 00:00:21,221 --> 00:00:25,525 defeat or that she's dead. 8 00:00:25,525 --> 00:00:28,762 - A hardworking wife, 9 00:00:25,525 --> 00:00:28,762 a loving mother, 10 00:00:28,762 --> 00:00:32,165 a woman with a complicated 11 00:00:28,762 --> 00:00:32,165 love life. 12 00:00:32,165 --> 00:00:33,967 - She was having affairs. 13 00:00:33,967 --> 00:00:35,268 - They worked in the same 14 00:00:33,967 --> 00:00:35,268 office areas. 15 00:00:35,268 --> 00:00:37,570 They spent some time 16 00:00:35,268 --> 00:00:37,570 after hours together. 17 00:00:37,570 --> 00:00:39,472 - Kathy was trying to break 18 00:00:37,570 --> 00:00:39,472 off the relationship. 19 00:00:39,472 --> 00:00:44,310 - Now the secret was out, 20 00:00:39,472 --> 00:00:44,310 replaced by a mystery. 21 00:00:44,310 --> 00:00:46,579 - She never 22 00:00:44,310 --> 00:00:46,579 returned from lunch. 23 00:00:46,579 --> 00:00:48,715 - We did consider that her 24 00:00:46,579 --> 00:00:48,715 husband may have known 25 00:00:48,715 --> 00:00:50,830 that his wife was 26 00:00:48,715 --> 00:00:50,830 having an affair. 27 00:00:50,830 --> 00:00:50,984 - Where was she? 28 00:00:50,984 --> 00:00:52,452 - There were 29 00:00:50,984 --> 00:00:52,452 just no answers. 30 00:00:52,452 --> 00:00:56,289 - Nearly 30 years, 31 00:00:52,452 --> 00:00:56,289 60 investigators, 32 00:00:56,289 --> 00:01:00,960 and it all kept coming back 33 00:00:56,289 --> 00:01:00,960 to one elusive suspect. 34 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,629 - He just very 35 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,629 calmly said, 36 00:01:02,629 --> 00:01:04,397 "I know how to get 37 00:01:02,629 --> 00:01:04,397 rid of a body 38 00:01:04,397 --> 00:01:06,466 "so it would never, 39 00:01:04,397 --> 00:01:06,466 ever be found." 40 00:01:06,466 --> 00:01:08,435 - To him, I think murder is 41 00:01:06,466 --> 00:01:08,435 something that can be done 42 00:01:08,435 --> 00:01:09,602 over a lunch hour. 43 00:01:09,602 --> 00:01:13,730 We were just a heartbeat 44 00:01:09,602 --> 00:01:13,730 away from not having a case. 45 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:15,742 It was basically a 46 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:15,742 now-or-never situation. 47 00:01:15,742 --> 00:01:23,416 ** 48 00:01:23,416 --> 00:01:26,986 - Hello and welcome to 49 00:01:23,416 --> 00:01:26,986 "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 50 00:01:26,986 --> 00:01:30,123 When Kathy Heckel vanished, 51 00:01:26,986 --> 00:01:30,123 police did not know 52 00:01:30,123 --> 00:01:32,359 if they were dealing with 53 00:01:30,123 --> 00:01:32,359 a missing person case 54 00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:35,950 or cold-blooded murder. 55 00:01:35,950 --> 00:01:37,970 They quickly discovered 56 00:01:35,950 --> 00:01:37,970 the doting mother 57 00:01:37,970 --> 00:01:40,400 was keeping scandalous secrets 58 00:01:37,970 --> 00:01:40,400 from her husband, 59 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,104 but it would take 60 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,104 nearly 30 years 61 00:01:44,104 --> 00:01:47,707 to unravel the mystery 62 00:01:44,104 --> 00:01:47,707 behind her disappearance. 63 00:01:47,707 --> 00:01:49,576 Here's Josh Mankiewicz with... 64 00:01:54,881 --> 00:01:56,616 - Time can be 65 00:01:54,881 --> 00:01:56,616 like a river, 66 00:01:56,616 --> 00:02:00,387 a long stream 67 00:01:56,616 --> 00:02:00,387 of events rushing by. 68 00:02:00,387 --> 00:02:04,570 Most barely make a ripple, 69 00:02:00,387 --> 00:02:04,570 but a few, 70 00:02:04,570 --> 00:02:06,760 like the sudden loss 71 00:02:04,570 --> 00:02:06,760 of a close friend, 72 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,794 a child, or a parent 73 00:02:08,794 --> 00:02:12,650 have a way of circling 74 00:02:08,794 --> 00:02:12,650 back upon us 75 00:02:12,650 --> 00:02:16,102 in a ceaseless loop 76 00:02:12,650 --> 00:02:16,102 of memory and regret. 77 00:02:16,102 --> 00:02:19,305 That's the way it's been 78 00:02:16,102 --> 00:02:19,305 for John Heckel 79 00:02:19,305 --> 00:02:21,141 and his sister Alicia Talbot 80 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:25,512 ever since that completely 81 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:25,512 normal morning in 1991 82 00:02:25,512 --> 00:02:29,182 when their mom, Kathy Heckel, 83 00:02:25,512 --> 00:02:29,182 kissed them goodbye, 84 00:02:29,182 --> 00:02:32,886 left for work, 85 00:02:29,182 --> 00:02:32,886 and never returned. 86 00:02:36,289 --> 00:02:37,791 Do you remember her 87 00:02:36,289 --> 00:02:37,791 leaving that morning? 88 00:02:37,791 --> 00:02:41,227 - Yeah. I-I mean, 89 00:02:37,791 --> 00:02:41,227 like any other day. 90 00:02:41,227 --> 00:02:43,296 - Yeah. 91 00:02:41,227 --> 00:02:43,296 - Same routine all the time. 92 00:02:43,296 --> 00:02:48,468 Every time she left us, 93 00:02:43,296 --> 00:02:48,468 she kissed us goodbye. 94 00:02:48,468 --> 00:02:50,337 - It was a July morning. 95 00:02:50,337 --> 00:02:53,473 Alicia, 13, 96 00:02:50,337 --> 00:02:53,473 and John, then 9, 97 00:02:53,473 --> 00:02:55,642 were home for 98 00:02:53,473 --> 00:02:55,642 summer vacation. 99 00:02:55,642 --> 00:02:57,110 A little after 9 a.m., 100 00:02:57,110 --> 00:02:59,646 Alicia says her mom called 101 00:02:57,110 --> 00:02:59,646 from her job. 102 00:02:59,646 --> 00:03:04,651 - We discussed having dinner 103 00:02:59,646 --> 00:03:04,651 and having pork chops. 104 00:03:04,651 --> 00:03:06,860 - Mm-hmm. 105 00:03:04,651 --> 00:03:06,860 Yeah, 'cause that was 106 00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:07,921 one of my favorite things 107 00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:07,921 she cooked. 108 00:03:07,921 --> 00:03:11,124 - Later, they tried to contact 109 00:03:07,921 --> 00:03:11,124 their mom at work. 110 00:03:11,124 --> 00:03:13,590 - One of the times we tried 111 00:03:11,124 --> 00:03:13,590 to call her 112 00:03:13,590 --> 00:03:15,228 was around lunchtime. 113 00:03:13,590 --> 00:03:15,228 - Mm-hmm. 114 00:03:15,228 --> 00:03:19,299 - And she had left, 115 00:03:19,299 --> 00:03:22,936 um, for lunch. 116 00:03:19,299 --> 00:03:22,936 - Yeah. 117 00:03:22,936 --> 00:03:28,308 - Um, and then we waited 118 00:03:22,936 --> 00:03:28,308 and called after lunch, 119 00:03:28,308 --> 00:03:31,378 and she still wasn't 120 00:03:28,308 --> 00:03:31,378 back to work yet. 121 00:03:31,378 --> 00:03:34,614 - At 40, Kathy Heckel had 122 00:03:31,378 --> 00:03:34,614 spent half her life 123 00:03:34,614 --> 00:03:38,685 working at the local paper plant 124 00:03:34,614 --> 00:03:38,685 in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania. 125 00:03:38,685 --> 00:03:41,353 - I can't remember who I was 126 00:03:38,685 --> 00:03:41,353 speaking to at the office, 127 00:03:41,353 --> 00:03:42,889 but you could hear 128 00:03:41,353 --> 00:03:42,889 in their voice 129 00:03:42,889 --> 00:03:44,324 that there was 130 00:03:42,889 --> 00:03:44,324 some concern there 131 00:03:44,324 --> 00:03:46,259 that she hadn't 132 00:03:44,324 --> 00:03:46,259 come back yet. 133 00:03:46,259 --> 00:03:47,793 - And you picked that up. 134 00:03:46,259 --> 00:03:47,793 - Yeah. 135 00:03:47,793 --> 00:03:50,196 It was not typical for her 136 00:03:47,793 --> 00:03:50,196 to not come back 137 00:03:50,196 --> 00:03:52,866 and not tell anybody. 138 00:03:52,866 --> 00:03:54,601 - With their dad 139 00:03:52,866 --> 00:03:54,601 out of town, 140 00:03:54,601 --> 00:03:57,404 they kept trying 141 00:03:54,601 --> 00:03:57,404 to reach their mom. 142 00:03:57,404 --> 00:03:59,500 Nothing. 143 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:00,573 At about 6:30 144 00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:00,573 that evening, 145 00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:04,844 Alicia called her grandparents 146 00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:04,844 Clarence and Margaret Dolan. 147 00:04:04,844 --> 00:04:06,780 - I answered the phone, 148 00:04:04,844 --> 00:04:06,780 and it was Alicia. 149 00:04:06,780 --> 00:04:09,849 She said, "Gram, can 150 00:04:06,780 --> 00:04:09,849 you get us some milk?" 151 00:04:09,849 --> 00:04:14,888 And I said, "What do you mean 152 00:04:09,849 --> 00:04:14,888 can I get you some milk?" 153 00:04:14,888 --> 00:04:17,570 She says, "Well, 154 00:04:14,888 --> 00:04:17,570 mom didn't come home yet," 155 00:04:17,570 --> 00:04:18,825 and she says, 156 00:04:17,570 --> 00:04:18,825 "We don't have any milk." 157 00:04:18,825 --> 00:04:21,528 And I said, "Alicia, 158 00:04:18,825 --> 00:04:21,528 I will be right there." 159 00:04:21,528 --> 00:04:22,862 - And you're thinking what? 160 00:04:22,862 --> 00:04:24,731 - I didn't know 161 00:04:22,862 --> 00:04:24,731 what to think. 162 00:04:24,731 --> 00:04:28,768 But as a mother, you know 163 00:04:24,731 --> 00:04:28,768 that this is something bad, 164 00:04:28,768 --> 00:04:30,704 something very bad. 165 00:04:30,704 --> 00:04:33,606 - That night, 166 00:04:30,704 --> 00:04:33,606 Kathy's mother and father 167 00:04:33,606 --> 00:04:36,376 contacted everyone 168 00:04:33,606 --> 00:04:36,376 they could think of. 169 00:04:36,376 --> 00:04:39,312 - No one had heard from her, 170 00:04:36,376 --> 00:04:39,312 and that was-- 171 00:04:39,312 --> 00:04:41,781 I remember picking up 172 00:04:39,312 --> 00:04:41,781 on that-- 173 00:04:41,781 --> 00:04:45,752 That they seemed-- 174 00:04:41,781 --> 00:04:45,752 They seemed worried. 175 00:04:45,752 --> 00:04:47,754 - I mean, 176 00:04:45,752 --> 00:04:47,754 you could just tell. 177 00:04:47,754 --> 00:04:50,156 - Your grandparents were 178 00:04:47,754 --> 00:04:50,156 acting differently. 179 00:04:50,156 --> 00:04:51,358 - Mm-hmm. 180 00:04:50,156 --> 00:04:51,358 - Mm-hmm. 181 00:04:51,358 --> 00:04:55,428 - Their dad John was in 182 00:04:51,358 --> 00:04:55,428 Upstate New York that Monday 183 00:04:55,428 --> 00:04:58,231 training with his 184 00:04:55,428 --> 00:04:58,231 National Guard unit. 185 00:04:58,231 --> 00:05:01,534 He didn't learn his wife was 186 00:04:58,231 --> 00:05:01,534 missing until the next day. 187 00:05:01,534 --> 00:05:03,670 - You get that phone call. 188 00:05:01,534 --> 00:05:03,670 It's your mom. 189 00:05:03,670 --> 00:05:05,505 - Yeah. 190 00:05:03,670 --> 00:05:05,505 - What'd she say? 191 00:05:05,505 --> 00:05:07,307 - The gist of 192 00:05:05,505 --> 00:05:07,307 the conversation 193 00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:12,450 was that Kathy didn't come home 194 00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:12,450 from work on Monday night 195 00:05:12,450 --> 00:05:15,115 and they didn't know 196 00:05:12,450 --> 00:05:15,115 where she was. 197 00:05:15,115 --> 00:05:16,216 - And now it's Tuesday. 198 00:05:16,216 --> 00:05:17,851 - And now it's 199 00:05:16,216 --> 00:05:17,851 Tuesday evening. 200 00:05:17,851 --> 00:05:19,753 - And you think what? 201 00:05:19,753 --> 00:05:22,122 - I said, tell them to call 202 00:05:19,753 --> 00:05:22,122 the State Police. 203 00:05:22,122 --> 00:05:24,624 - With the permission 204 00:05:22,122 --> 00:05:24,624 of his commanding officer, 205 00:05:24,624 --> 00:05:27,560 John Heckel immediately 206 00:05:24,624 --> 00:05:27,560 left for home. 207 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,963 He had plenty 208 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,963 of time to think 209 00:05:29,963 --> 00:05:32,265 on that 210 00:05:29,963 --> 00:05:32,265 5 1/2-hour ride. 211 00:05:32,265 --> 00:05:34,901 He thought about the time 212 00:05:32,265 --> 00:05:34,901 Kathy donated a kidney 213 00:05:34,901 --> 00:05:36,603 to save her brother's life 214 00:05:36,603 --> 00:05:39,906 and about the December day 215 00:05:36,603 --> 00:05:39,906 in 1972 216 00:05:39,906 --> 00:05:43,143 when he first 217 00:05:39,906 --> 00:05:43,143 gazed at Kathy Dolan. 218 00:05:43,143 --> 00:05:45,378 - She just had the biggest 219 00:05:43,143 --> 00:05:45,378 brown eyes 220 00:05:45,378 --> 00:05:46,913 you could look into. 221 00:05:46,913 --> 00:05:49,282 - Six months later, 222 00:05:46,913 --> 00:05:49,282 they were married. 223 00:05:49,282 --> 00:05:52,850 - Like any marriage, I think 224 00:05:49,282 --> 00:05:52,850 we had our ups and downs. 225 00:05:52,850 --> 00:05:55,989 But, uh, overall, 226 00:05:52,850 --> 00:05:55,989 I was happy about the fact 227 00:05:55,989 --> 00:05:59,125 I didn't have to worry 228 00:05:55,989 --> 00:05:59,125 about my family with Kathy. 229 00:05:59,125 --> 00:06:00,860 - You thought you were going 230 00:05:59,125 --> 00:06:00,860 to stay married forever? 231 00:06:00,860 --> 00:06:02,262 - Yes. 232 00:06:02,262 --> 00:06:06,660 - The problem was 233 00:06:02,262 --> 00:06:06,660 John was already married 234 00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:07,734 to the military. 235 00:06:07,734 --> 00:06:10,670 John's career frequently 236 00:06:07,734 --> 00:06:10,670 took him away from home, 237 00:06:10,670 --> 00:06:12,939 sometimes for 238 00:06:10,670 --> 00:06:12,939 weeks at a time. 239 00:06:12,939 --> 00:06:15,675 Kathy didn't like that, 240 00:06:15,675 --> 00:06:18,244 and John says his wife 241 00:06:15,675 --> 00:06:18,244 of 18 years 242 00:06:18,244 --> 00:06:20,246 seemed to have that 243 00:06:18,244 --> 00:06:20,246 on her mind 244 00:06:20,246 --> 00:06:23,850 when she dropped him off for 245 00:06:20,246 --> 00:06:23,850 his latest guard assignment. 246 00:06:23,850 --> 00:06:26,119 - She asked me why 247 00:06:23,850 --> 00:06:26,119 I had to be there so early, 248 00:06:26,119 --> 00:06:28,321 which didn't 249 00:06:26,119 --> 00:06:28,321 make sense to me, 250 00:06:28,321 --> 00:06:30,290 because I was always 251 00:06:28,321 --> 00:06:30,290 the first one there, 252 00:06:30,290 --> 00:06:32,726 and I said, 253 00:06:30,290 --> 00:06:32,726 "It's my job." 254 00:06:32,726 --> 00:06:34,940 - She didn't 255 00:06:32,726 --> 00:06:34,940 want you to go. 256 00:06:34,940 --> 00:06:36,129 - She didn't say, 257 00:06:34,940 --> 00:06:36,129 "I don't want you to go." 258 00:06:36,129 --> 00:06:37,197 - But you felt it. 259 00:06:37,197 --> 00:06:39,632 - I could feel that 260 00:06:37,197 --> 00:06:39,632 something was wrong. 261 00:06:39,632 --> 00:06:41,901 The look on her face 262 00:06:39,632 --> 00:06:41,901 when she said it, 263 00:06:41,901 --> 00:06:45,939 it just didn't 264 00:06:41,901 --> 00:06:45,939 set right with me. 265 00:06:45,939 --> 00:06:47,941 - Now Kathy was missing, 266 00:06:47,941 --> 00:06:49,876 and her disappearance 267 00:06:47,941 --> 00:06:49,876 would eventually 268 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:52,212 drag into the open 269 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:52,212 secrets 270 00:06:52,212 --> 00:06:54,614 that some in 271 00:06:52,212 --> 00:06:54,614 and around Lock Haven 272 00:06:54,614 --> 00:06:56,916 would have rather 273 00:06:54,614 --> 00:06:56,916 kept hidden. 274 00:07:01,540 --> 00:07:02,322 A wife and mother, 275 00:07:02,322 --> 00:07:05,825 but also a woman who was 276 00:07:02,322 --> 00:07:05,825 sometimes lonely. 277 00:07:05,825 --> 00:07:08,280 - I asked her mom 278 00:07:05,825 --> 00:07:08,280 if she was seeing anyone, 279 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:10,130 and she said that she had 280 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:10,130 reestablished contact 281 00:07:10,130 --> 00:07:12,399 with an old friend 282 00:07:10,130 --> 00:07:12,399 from school. 283 00:07:12,399 --> 00:07:16,690 - And that old friend 284 00:07:12,399 --> 00:07:16,690 had a confession to make. 285 00:07:16,690 --> 00:07:19,390 - He did admit that they had 286 00:07:16,690 --> 00:07:19,390 had a physical relationship 287 00:07:19,390 --> 00:07:22,420 and it had only been a few days 288 00:07:19,390 --> 00:07:22,420 before she disappeared. 289 00:07:22,108 --> 00:07:35,388 By the time John Heckel 290 00:07:22,108 --> 00:07:35,388 returned home 291 00:07:36,322 --> 00:07:39,920 from National Guard training 292 00:07:36,322 --> 00:07:39,920 in New York State, 293 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,296 his wife Kathy had been missing 294 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,296 for about 36 hours. 295 00:07:43,296 --> 00:07:44,564 - When my dad came back, 296 00:07:44,564 --> 00:07:48,680 he was the one who told us, 297 00:07:44,564 --> 00:07:48,680 "We can't find your mom. 298 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:49,502 "We don't know 299 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:49,502 where your mom is." 300 00:07:49,502 --> 00:07:52,505 And, um, that was 301 00:07:49,502 --> 00:07:52,505 the first time 302 00:07:52,505 --> 00:07:55,108 I've ever seen 303 00:07:52,505 --> 00:07:55,108 my dad cry. 304 00:07:55,108 --> 00:07:57,577 And, um... 305 00:07:57,577 --> 00:08:03,850 I-I knew the worst had 306 00:07:57,577 --> 00:08:03,850 definitely happened 307 00:08:03,850 --> 00:08:05,785 if he was 308 00:08:03,850 --> 00:08:05,785 that worried. 309 00:08:05,785 --> 00:08:08,688 - And that was the first time 310 00:08:05,785 --> 00:08:08,688 I saw my dad cry, too. 311 00:08:08,688 --> 00:08:13,493 And, you know, he was always 312 00:08:08,688 --> 00:08:13,493 this big, strong man, 313 00:08:13,493 --> 00:08:16,930 and-and when you 314 00:08:13,493 --> 00:08:16,930 see that, you-- 315 00:08:16,930 --> 00:08:21,468 It's like, okay, this is-- 316 00:08:16,930 --> 00:08:21,468 This is not good. 317 00:08:21,468 --> 00:08:23,370 - That's got to be a terrible 318 00:08:21,468 --> 00:08:23,370 thing to tell your kids, 319 00:08:23,370 --> 00:08:25,710 because they want-- 320 00:08:23,370 --> 00:08:25,710 they want you to tell them 321 00:08:25,710 --> 00:08:27,400 this is going to be okay. 322 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:28,775 - Dad always had 323 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:28,775 all the answers. 324 00:08:28,775 --> 00:08:30,410 - And you can't tell them 325 00:08:28,775 --> 00:08:30,410 this is going to be okay. 326 00:08:30,410 --> 00:08:33,847 - Mnh-mnh. No. 327 00:08:30,410 --> 00:08:33,847 You don't want fabrication. 328 00:08:33,847 --> 00:08:35,448 - Across town that morning, 329 00:08:35,448 --> 00:08:39,850 Pennsylvania State Trooper 330 00:08:35,448 --> 00:08:39,850 Fred Caldwell was on the case. 331 00:08:39,850 --> 00:08:43,623 His first call had been to 332 00:08:39,850 --> 00:08:43,623 Margaret Dolan, Kathy's mom. 333 00:08:43,623 --> 00:08:45,225 - I remember asking her 334 00:08:43,623 --> 00:08:45,225 if she, um, 335 00:08:45,225 --> 00:08:47,394 had noticed any 336 00:08:45,225 --> 00:08:47,394 changes recently 337 00:08:47,394 --> 00:08:49,262 or anything in her demeanor 338 00:08:47,394 --> 00:08:49,262 that was unusual, 339 00:08:49,262 --> 00:08:52,432 and she said that in the 340 00:08:49,262 --> 00:08:52,432 last 4-6 weeks or so 341 00:08:52,432 --> 00:08:53,967 she just wasn't herself. 342 00:08:53,967 --> 00:08:56,636 - Then the trooper asked 343 00:08:53,967 --> 00:08:56,636 one of those probing 344 00:08:56,636 --> 00:09:00,774 and indelicate questions 345 00:08:56,636 --> 00:09:00,774 that cops have to ask. 346 00:09:00,774 --> 00:09:04,440 - I asked her mom if she, 347 00:09:00,774 --> 00:09:04,440 um, had any indication 348 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,460 that she was seeing anyone, 349 00:09:06,460 --> 00:09:08,810 and she said that she had 350 00:09:06,460 --> 00:09:08,810 reestablished contact 351 00:09:08,810 --> 00:09:11,184 with an old acquaintance, 352 00:09:08,810 --> 00:09:11,184 an old friend from school. 353 00:09:11,184 --> 00:09:14,200 - That man's name 354 00:09:11,184 --> 00:09:14,200 was Dennis Taylor. 355 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,570 He and Kathy had recently 356 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,570 reconnected at a wedding. 357 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:19,626 Taylor had been singing 358 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:19,626 and playing guitar. 359 00:09:19,626 --> 00:09:22,729 The trooper jotted down 360 00:09:19,626 --> 00:09:22,729 the name Dennis Taylor 361 00:09:22,729 --> 00:09:25,265 with the idea 362 00:09:22,729 --> 00:09:25,265 of calling him later. 363 00:09:25,265 --> 00:09:27,400 Next, he dialed 364 00:09:25,265 --> 00:09:27,400 the paper plant 365 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,469 where Kathy 366 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,469 was last seen. 367 00:09:29,469 --> 00:09:31,905 One of Kathy's coworkers 368 00:09:29,469 --> 00:09:31,905 picked up the phone. 369 00:09:31,905 --> 00:09:34,507 - She kind of corroborated 370 00:09:31,905 --> 00:09:34,507 what her mom had said, 371 00:09:34,507 --> 00:09:36,710 that she'd been a little 372 00:09:34,507 --> 00:09:36,710 different in the last few weeks. 373 00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:39,112 Her personality just seemed 374 00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:39,112 a little quieter maybe. 375 00:09:39,112 --> 00:09:42,480 - Then he asked 376 00:09:39,112 --> 00:09:42,480 question number two. 377 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:43,490 - I also asked her 378 00:09:43,490 --> 00:09:45,510 if she felt that there 379 00:09:43,490 --> 00:09:45,510 was the possibility 380 00:09:45,510 --> 00:09:47,530 she may have been having 381 00:09:45,510 --> 00:09:47,530 an affair or seeing anyone, 382 00:09:47,530 --> 00:09:49,756 and she said 383 00:09:47,530 --> 00:09:49,756 she had no evidence, 384 00:09:49,756 --> 00:09:52,692 but she suspected that 385 00:09:49,756 --> 00:09:52,692 she may have been. 386 00:09:52,692 --> 00:09:54,694 - The coworker wasn't 387 00:09:52,692 --> 00:09:54,694 talking about 388 00:09:54,694 --> 00:09:56,496 Kathy's friend 389 00:09:54,694 --> 00:09:56,496 Dennis Taylor. 390 00:09:56,496 --> 00:10:00,400 She was talking about a man 391 00:09:56,496 --> 00:10:00,400 at the plant named Loyd Groves. 392 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,690 - They both played 393 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,690 on the same volleyball team. 394 00:10:03,690 --> 00:10:05,105 They spent some time 395 00:10:03,690 --> 00:10:05,105 afterhours together. 396 00:10:05,105 --> 00:10:07,774 Um, and I think just 397 00:10:05,105 --> 00:10:07,774 the closeness of the two, 398 00:10:07,774 --> 00:10:10,760 and she just kind of suspected 399 00:10:07,774 --> 00:10:10,760 that they may be. 400 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,279 - The trooper learned Groves 401 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,279 was the quiet type, 402 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:14,948 married with children. 403 00:10:14,948 --> 00:10:17,170 Sometimes he led 404 00:10:14,948 --> 00:10:17,170 plant tours 405 00:10:17,170 --> 00:10:19,419 and gave papermaking 406 00:10:17,170 --> 00:10:19,419 presentations 407 00:10:19,419 --> 00:10:20,653 at local schools. 408 00:10:20,653 --> 00:10:24,224 A call to Groves' office 409 00:10:20,653 --> 00:10:24,224 revealed he wasn't in yet, 410 00:10:24,224 --> 00:10:27,460 so the trooper left 411 00:10:24,224 --> 00:10:27,460 a callback message 412 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:29,729 and not long after, 413 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:29,729 the trooper says, 414 00:10:29,729 --> 00:10:34,234 Mr. Groves showed up in person 415 00:10:29,729 --> 00:10:34,234 at the State Police barracks. 416 00:10:34,234 --> 00:10:36,169 - He was very calm. 417 00:10:36,169 --> 00:10:37,704 He said that, um, 418 00:10:36,169 --> 00:10:37,704 he knew her. 419 00:10:37,704 --> 00:10:39,873 They shared-- They worked 420 00:10:37,704 --> 00:10:39,873 in the same office areas. 421 00:10:39,873 --> 00:10:42,800 He, um, said they 422 00:10:39,873 --> 00:10:42,800 were friends. 423 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:43,543 I did ask him if he had 424 00:10:43,543 --> 00:10:45,245 any type of physical 425 00:10:43,543 --> 00:10:45,245 relationship with her, 426 00:10:45,245 --> 00:10:46,579 and he said no. 427 00:10:46,579 --> 00:10:49,849 - Shortly after Loyd Groves 428 00:10:46,579 --> 00:10:49,849 left the State Police barracks, 429 00:10:49,849 --> 00:10:50,917 the other man 430 00:10:50,917 --> 00:10:53,687 on Trooper Caldwell's list 431 00:10:50,917 --> 00:10:53,687 walked in-- 432 00:10:53,687 --> 00:10:56,423 Dennis Taylor, 433 00:10:53,687 --> 00:10:56,423 the guitar man. 434 00:10:56,423 --> 00:10:59,592 Like Groves, Taylor was 435 00:10:56,423 --> 00:10:59,592 a married man with children, 436 00:10:59,592 --> 00:11:01,695 and right off the bat, 437 00:10:59,592 --> 00:11:01,695 he told the trooper 438 00:11:01,695 --> 00:11:03,897 he had a confession 439 00:11:01,695 --> 00:11:03,897 to make. 440 00:11:03,897 --> 00:11:05,498 - He did admit 441 00:11:03,897 --> 00:11:05,498 that they had 442 00:11:05,498 --> 00:11:07,734 had a physical relationship 443 00:11:05,498 --> 00:11:07,734 briefly, 444 00:11:07,734 --> 00:11:09,402 and it had only been 445 00:11:07,734 --> 00:11:09,402 a few days 446 00:11:09,402 --> 00:11:11,204 before she disappeared, 447 00:11:09,402 --> 00:11:11,204 as I recall-- 448 00:11:11,204 --> 00:11:13,740 the first contact-- 449 00:11:11,204 --> 00:11:13,740 phyiscal contact. 450 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:15,942 - Like a balladeer 451 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:15,942 who knows 452 00:11:15,942 --> 00:11:18,845 his audience is hanging 453 00:11:15,942 --> 00:11:18,845 on every lyric, 454 00:11:18,845 --> 00:11:22,182 the guitar man 455 00:11:18,845 --> 00:11:22,182 kept singing to the cops. 456 00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:24,818 Taylor told the trooper 457 00:11:22,182 --> 00:11:24,818 Kathy Heckel had 458 00:11:24,818 --> 00:11:27,520 called him at work 459 00:11:24,818 --> 00:11:27,520 the day she disappeared. 460 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,590 Her voice, he said, 461 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,590 had a strange tone. 462 00:11:30,590 --> 00:11:32,726 - She called him 463 00:11:30,590 --> 00:11:32,726 just before lunchtime 464 00:11:32,726 --> 00:11:36,763 and was upset 465 00:11:32,726 --> 00:11:36,763 or anxious 466 00:11:36,763 --> 00:11:38,565 and said that 467 00:11:36,763 --> 00:11:38,565 she had something 468 00:11:38,565 --> 00:11:39,665 she wanted to talk 469 00:11:38,565 --> 00:11:39,665 to him about. 470 00:11:39,665 --> 00:11:41,100 And he was busy 471 00:11:39,665 --> 00:11:41,100 and he said, "I can't talk, 472 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:42,769 I'll call you back." 473 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:42,769 And hung up. 474 00:11:42,769 --> 00:11:44,437 He did try to call back 475 00:11:42,769 --> 00:11:44,437 then sometime later 476 00:11:44,437 --> 00:11:46,600 and she had gone 477 00:11:44,437 --> 00:11:46,600 for lunch. 478 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,109 - Taylor said he played golf 479 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,109 with friends that afternoon 480 00:11:49,109 --> 00:11:51,978 and had planned to meet up 481 00:11:49,109 --> 00:11:51,978 with Kathy later that night. 482 00:11:51,978 --> 00:11:56,316 - Then he goes to her location 483 00:11:51,978 --> 00:11:56,316 where they're going to meet. 484 00:11:56,316 --> 00:11:57,851 Kathy doesn't show up. 485 00:11:57,851 --> 00:12:00,530 He was concerned that 486 00:11:57,851 --> 00:12:00,530 something may have happened. 487 00:12:00,530 --> 00:12:04,124 - It was then the guitar man 488 00:12:00,530 --> 00:12:04,124 struck a familiar chord. 489 00:12:04,124 --> 00:12:07,627 Kathy Heckel, he said, had 490 00:12:04,124 --> 00:12:07,627 also been seeing another man, 491 00:12:07,627 --> 00:12:10,797 a guy named 492 00:12:07,627 --> 00:12:10,797 Loyd Groves. 493 00:12:10,797 --> 00:12:14,868 According to Taylor, this fellow 494 00:12:10,797 --> 00:12:14,868 Groves was a bit of a stalker. 495 00:12:14,868 --> 00:12:18,605 - He said that he had met Kathy 496 00:12:14,868 --> 00:12:18,605 at a park, a nearby park. 497 00:12:18,605 --> 00:12:20,874 He said that there was 498 00:12:18,605 --> 00:12:20,874 a gray van parked nearby. 499 00:12:20,874 --> 00:12:21,941 He recalled 500 00:12:20,874 --> 00:12:21,941 seeing the van. 501 00:12:21,941 --> 00:12:23,910 And the next time he talked 502 00:12:21,941 --> 00:12:23,910 to Kathy, she said, 503 00:12:23,910 --> 00:12:25,245 "Did you see that van?" 504 00:12:25,245 --> 00:12:27,714 That was Loyd, 505 00:12:25,245 --> 00:12:27,714 and he was following her. 506 00:12:27,714 --> 00:12:30,517 - Was the guitar man 507 00:12:27,714 --> 00:12:30,517 being helpful 508 00:12:30,517 --> 00:12:33,119 or was he trying 509 00:12:30,517 --> 00:12:33,119 to implicate a rival 510 00:12:33,119 --> 00:12:35,155 to save his own skin? 511 00:12:35,155 --> 00:12:37,123 The trooper 512 00:12:35,155 --> 00:12:37,123 knew this much: 513 00:12:37,123 --> 00:12:39,325 if Kathy Heckel 514 00:12:37,123 --> 00:12:39,325 had been juggling 515 00:12:39,325 --> 00:12:41,995 simultaneous affairs 516 00:12:39,325 --> 00:12:41,995 with married men, 517 00:12:41,995 --> 00:12:43,697 there could be 518 00:12:41,995 --> 00:12:43,697 a lot of people 519 00:12:43,697 --> 00:12:45,832 who might have 520 00:12:43,697 --> 00:12:45,832 wanted her to disappear, 521 00:12:45,832 --> 00:12:47,934 including her husband. 522 00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:49,803 - He was definitely 523 00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:49,803 a person of interest. 524 00:12:49,803 --> 00:12:53,106 - Exactly how much 525 00:12:49,803 --> 00:12:53,106 did John Heckel know 526 00:12:53,106 --> 00:12:58,110 about what was going on 527 00:12:53,106 --> 00:12:58,110 in his wife's life? 528 00:12:58,110 --> 00:13:00,460 - Detectives are ready 529 00:12:58,110 --> 00:13:00,460 to confront John 530 00:13:00,460 --> 00:13:03,283 with an ugly truth 531 00:13:00,460 --> 00:13:03,283 and want to know, 532 00:13:03,283 --> 00:13:07,530 are they looking for 533 00:13:03,283 --> 00:13:07,530 a runaway wife or her killer? 534 00:13:08,688 --> 00:13:10,757 - There were just no answers. 535 00:13:08,688 --> 00:13:10,757 - Um-hmm. 536 00:13:10,757 --> 00:13:12,826 - And that was-that was 537 00:13:10,757 --> 00:13:12,826 the worst part. 538 00:13:12,826 --> 00:13:15,950 - We did consider 539 00:13:12,826 --> 00:13:15,950 that John may have known 540 00:13:15,950 --> 00:13:16,529 that his wife 541 00:13:15,950 --> 00:13:16,529 was having an affair 542 00:13:16,529 --> 00:13:19,532 and that he may have 543 00:13:16,529 --> 00:13:19,532 taken some action on his own. 544 00:13:19,532 --> 00:13:22,369 - Did you feel like 545 00:13:19,532 --> 00:13:22,369 you were ever a suspect? 546 00:13:22,369 --> 00:13:25,238 - Never worried about it. 547 00:13:22,369 --> 00:13:25,238 I knew they were trying 548 00:13:25,238 --> 00:13:28,408 to find where Kathy was 549 00:13:25,238 --> 00:13:28,408 and what had happened. 550 00:13:28,408 --> 00:13:31,111 And if that included 551 00:13:28,408 --> 00:13:31,111 questioning me, 552 00:13:31,111 --> 00:13:32,746 I had no problems 553 00:13:31,111 --> 00:13:32,746 with that. 554 00:13:32,846 --> 00:13:48,940 Any investigation in which 555 00:13:32,846 --> 00:13:48,940 someone goes missing 556 00:13:48,795 --> 00:13:51,731 or turns up dead 557 00:13:48,795 --> 00:13:51,731 just about guarantees 558 00:13:51,731 --> 00:13:54,868 family members will be 559 00:13:51,731 --> 00:13:54,868 considered suspects. 560 00:13:54,868 --> 00:13:58,204 Kathy Heckle's husband, 561 00:13:54,868 --> 00:13:58,204 John, was no exception. 562 00:13:58,204 --> 00:14:00,407 - We did consider 563 00:13:58,204 --> 00:14:00,407 that John may have known 564 00:14:00,407 --> 00:14:01,708 that his wife 565 00:14:00,407 --> 00:14:01,708 was having an affair 566 00:14:01,708 --> 00:14:04,844 and that he may have taken 567 00:14:01,708 --> 00:14:04,844 some action on his own. 568 00:14:04,844 --> 00:14:07,647 - Did you feel like you 569 00:14:04,844 --> 00:14:07,647 were ever a suspect? 570 00:14:07,647 --> 00:14:10,350 - Never worried about it. 571 00:14:07,647 --> 00:14:10,350 I knew they were trying 572 00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:13,586 to find where Kathy was 573 00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:13,586 and what had happened. 574 00:14:13,586 --> 00:14:16,356 And if that included 575 00:14:13,586 --> 00:14:16,356 questioning me, 576 00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:18,580 I had no problems 577 00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:18,580 with that. 578 00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:19,325 - At some point, 579 00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:19,325 somebody said to you, 580 00:14:19,325 --> 00:14:21,394 "We believe she was having 581 00:14:19,325 --> 00:14:21,394 a relationship 582 00:14:21,394 --> 00:14:22,595 with some 583 00:14:21,394 --> 00:14:22,595 other people." 584 00:14:22,595 --> 00:14:25,598 Was that shocking to hear? 585 00:14:22,595 --> 00:14:25,598 - It was surprising 586 00:14:25,598 --> 00:14:28,301 because that wasn't 587 00:14:25,598 --> 00:14:28,301 the way Kathy was. 588 00:14:28,301 --> 00:14:31,338 - In his interview 589 00:14:28,301 --> 00:14:31,338 with Trooper Caldwell, 590 00:14:31,338 --> 00:14:33,173 John Heckel said 591 00:14:31,338 --> 00:14:33,173 he'd noticed a change 592 00:14:33,173 --> 00:14:35,575 in his wife's demeanor 593 00:14:33,173 --> 00:14:35,575 in recent weeks 594 00:14:35,575 --> 00:14:38,878 and wondered if she might be 595 00:14:35,575 --> 00:14:38,878 having an affair. 596 00:14:38,878 --> 00:14:39,979 - He-- 597 00:14:38,878 --> 00:14:39,979 he was emotional. 598 00:14:39,979 --> 00:14:41,748 There were times when 599 00:14:39,979 --> 00:14:41,748 John and I just sat together 600 00:14:41,748 --> 00:14:43,830 with my arm around him 601 00:14:41,748 --> 00:14:43,830 and he would cry. 602 00:14:43,830 --> 00:14:45,285 He was concerned 603 00:14:43,830 --> 00:14:45,285 about his wife. 604 00:14:45,285 --> 00:14:48,755 And I felt very bad 605 00:14:45,285 --> 00:14:48,755 for the man. 606 00:14:48,755 --> 00:14:50,657 - John Heckel's alibi 607 00:14:48,755 --> 00:14:50,657 checked out 608 00:14:50,657 --> 00:14:52,859 and police found 609 00:14:50,657 --> 00:14:52,859 no evidence 610 00:14:52,859 --> 00:14:55,795 he paid anyone 611 00:14:52,859 --> 00:14:55,795 to hurt his wife. 612 00:14:55,795 --> 00:14:58,965 By now, Kathy had been 613 00:14:55,795 --> 00:14:58,965 missing for two full days 614 00:14:58,965 --> 00:15:01,401 and John Heckel 615 00:14:58,965 --> 00:15:01,401 feared the worst. 616 00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:05,380 - Kathy Heckel 617 00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:05,380 would never... 618 00:15:07,474 --> 00:15:10,430 On this earth 619 00:15:10,430 --> 00:15:13,780 abandon 620 00:15:10,430 --> 00:15:13,780 those two children. 621 00:15:13,780 --> 00:15:15,815 - Trooper Caldwell 622 00:15:13,780 --> 00:15:15,815 still didn't know 623 00:15:15,815 --> 00:15:18,351 if he was working 624 00:15:15,815 --> 00:15:18,351 a missing persons case, 625 00:15:18,351 --> 00:15:20,887 an abduction, 626 00:15:18,351 --> 00:15:20,887 or a homicide. 627 00:15:20,887 --> 00:15:22,856 Then on the evening 628 00:15:20,887 --> 00:15:22,856 of the third day, 629 00:15:22,856 --> 00:15:24,924 investigators 630 00:15:22,856 --> 00:15:24,924 got a big break. 631 00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:27,193 They found 632 00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:27,193 Kathy Heckel's car 633 00:15:27,193 --> 00:15:29,462 parked behind 634 00:15:27,193 --> 00:15:29,462 the local hospital. 635 00:15:29,462 --> 00:15:31,231 The keys were missing. 636 00:15:31,231 --> 00:15:32,399 - I think they 637 00:15:31,231 --> 00:15:32,399 recovered one print, 638 00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:33,933 but I don't know 639 00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:33,933 that it was ever identified. 640 00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:35,669 It was from the exterior 641 00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:35,669 of the car. 642 00:15:35,669 --> 00:15:38,705 - Investigators were now 643 00:15:35,669 --> 00:15:38,705 pretty sure that someone, 644 00:15:38,705 --> 00:15:42,509 possibly her killer, 645 00:15:38,705 --> 00:15:42,509 had moved Kathy Heckel's car 646 00:15:42,509 --> 00:15:44,277 to the hospital 647 00:15:42,509 --> 00:15:44,277 parking lot. 648 00:15:44,277 --> 00:15:48,682 And then, the case 649 00:15:44,277 --> 00:15:48,682 hit a dead end. 650 00:15:48,682 --> 00:15:50,850 Days turned to weeks. 651 00:15:50,850 --> 00:15:53,586 Those weeks stretched 652 00:15:50,850 --> 00:15:53,586 into months. 653 00:15:53,586 --> 00:15:56,956 Kathy Heckel was 654 00:15:53,586 --> 00:15:56,956 somewhere in the wind. 655 00:15:56,956 --> 00:16:00,193 - We had cadaver dogs 656 00:15:56,956 --> 00:16:00,193 come down often 657 00:16:00,193 --> 00:16:02,629 and we would have troopers 658 00:16:00,193 --> 00:16:02,629 go out and search the area 659 00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:04,564 looking for remains 660 00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:04,564 or whatever. 661 00:16:04,564 --> 00:16:08,368 - While some investigators 662 00:16:04,564 --> 00:16:08,368 focused on finding Kathy Heckel, 663 00:16:08,368 --> 00:16:12,539 others concentrated on finding 664 00:16:08,368 --> 00:16:12,539 evidence of a crime. 665 00:16:12,539 --> 00:16:14,574 As far as investigators 666 00:16:12,539 --> 00:16:14,574 could tell, 667 00:16:14,574 --> 00:16:17,844 the guitar man, Dennis Taylor, 668 00:16:14,574 --> 00:16:17,844 had been honest, 669 00:16:17,844 --> 00:16:20,413 confessing his affair 670 00:16:17,844 --> 00:16:20,413 with Kathy Heckel. 671 00:16:20,413 --> 00:16:24,500 Loyd Groves, on the other hand, 672 00:16:20,413 --> 00:16:24,500 had seemed a bit dodgy. 673 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:28,188 Troopers had searched Loyd 674 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:28,188 Groves' home, office, and van. 675 00:16:28,188 --> 00:16:31,570 And while some items 676 00:16:28,188 --> 00:16:31,570 of interest were found, 677 00:16:31,570 --> 00:16:32,459 the local prosecutor 678 00:16:31,570 --> 00:16:32,459 didn't think 679 00:16:32,459 --> 00:16:35,950 police had enough 680 00:16:32,459 --> 00:16:35,950 to make an arrest. 681 00:16:35,950 --> 00:16:38,565 - There was a big hole from 682 00:16:35,950 --> 00:16:38,565 an investigative standpoint. 683 00:16:38,565 --> 00:16:40,333 - Ted McKnight 684 00:16:38,565 --> 00:16:40,333 was Clinton County 685 00:16:40,333 --> 00:16:42,102 District Attorney 686 00:16:40,333 --> 00:16:42,102 at the time. 687 00:16:42,102 --> 00:16:44,804 - If you can imagine 688 00:16:42,102 --> 00:16:44,804 a yardstick, 689 00:16:44,804 --> 00:16:47,640 and "probable cause" is 690 00:16:44,804 --> 00:16:47,640 probably at the 2-inch mark, 691 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,442 and "beyond 692 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,442 a reasonable doubt" 693 00:16:49,442 --> 00:16:51,411 is probably 694 00:16:49,442 --> 00:16:51,411 at the 34-inch mark, 695 00:16:51,411 --> 00:16:53,947 then everything else 696 00:16:51,411 --> 00:16:53,947 in-between 697 00:16:53,947 --> 00:16:55,148 is the difference 698 00:16:53,947 --> 00:16:55,148 between 699 00:16:55,148 --> 00:16:56,449 are you going 700 00:16:55,148 --> 00:16:56,449 to get a conviction 701 00:16:56,449 --> 00:16:57,450 or aren't you? 702 00:16:57,450 --> 00:16:58,651 - Which means 703 00:16:57,450 --> 00:16:58,651 you don't go forward 704 00:16:58,651 --> 00:17:00,453 unless you're reasonably sure 705 00:16:58,651 --> 00:17:00,453 you have the evidence 706 00:17:00,453 --> 00:17:02,220 for a conviction. 707 00:17:00,453 --> 00:17:02,220 - Correct. 708 00:17:02,220 --> 00:17:04,240 - He says that fact 709 00:17:02,220 --> 00:17:04,240 that Kathy Heckel's body 710 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,760 had not been found 711 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,760 was a big problem. 712 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,795 - How do we prove 713 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,795 beyond a reasonable doubt 714 00:17:08,795 --> 00:17:11,564 that she is dead? 715 00:17:11,564 --> 00:17:13,329 If she was killed, 716 00:17:13,329 --> 00:17:16,403 where did the killing occur? 717 00:17:13,329 --> 00:17:16,403 In what county did it occur? 718 00:17:16,403 --> 00:17:17,804 - So, maybe it's not even 719 00:17:16,403 --> 00:17:17,804 in your jurisdiction. 720 00:17:17,804 --> 00:17:20,373 - Correct. 721 00:17:17,804 --> 00:17:20,373 - For the Heckel family, 722 00:17:20,373 --> 00:17:23,443 Kathy's disappearance 723 00:17:20,373 --> 00:17:23,443 was a defining event. 724 00:17:23,443 --> 00:17:25,744 - I remember 725 00:17:23,443 --> 00:17:25,744 being depressed. 726 00:17:25,744 --> 00:17:27,814 I didn't know what that meant 727 00:17:25,744 --> 00:17:27,814 when I was 9 years old, 728 00:17:27,814 --> 00:17:30,483 but just thinking about 729 00:17:30,483 --> 00:17:34,888 how low and sad 730 00:17:30,483 --> 00:17:34,888 I felt all the time. 731 00:17:34,888 --> 00:17:37,624 - I think people deal 732 00:17:34,888 --> 00:17:37,624 with things differently 733 00:17:37,624 --> 00:17:41,761 and I certainly chose, 734 00:17:37,624 --> 00:17:41,761 I think, the avoidance method. 735 00:17:41,761 --> 00:17:43,830 - Not think about it. 736 00:17:41,761 --> 00:17:43,830 - And not think about it. 737 00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:46,660 - There were just no answers. 738 00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:46,660 - Um-hmm. 739 00:17:46,660 --> 00:17:48,735 - And that was-that was 740 00:17:46,660 --> 00:17:48,735 the worst part. 741 00:17:48,735 --> 00:17:52,972 - In 1998, seven years 742 00:17:48,735 --> 00:17:52,972 after Kathy disappeared, 743 00:17:52,972 --> 00:17:57,410 John Heckel had his wife 744 00:17:52,972 --> 00:17:57,410 declared legally dead. 745 00:17:57,410 --> 00:17:59,779 That did not make 746 00:17:57,410 --> 00:17:59,779 the mystery 747 00:17:59,779 --> 00:18:02,582 any easier for him 748 00:17:59,779 --> 00:18:02,582 to understand. 749 00:18:02,582 --> 00:18:06,586 - Can you accept the idea 750 00:18:02,582 --> 00:18:06,586 that maybe there were needs 751 00:18:06,586 --> 00:18:09,890 that you felt 752 00:18:06,586 --> 00:18:09,890 that she had to meet 753 00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:12,625 with men who were not you, 754 00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:12,625 but that she still loved you? 755 00:18:12,625 --> 00:18:16,296 - Oh, no. I-I believe 756 00:18:12,625 --> 00:18:16,296 she did love me. 757 00:18:16,296 --> 00:18:19,566 - She had a secret life that 758 00:18:16,296 --> 00:18:19,566 she wasn't showing anybody else. 759 00:18:19,566 --> 00:18:21,401 - But you don't know 760 00:18:19,566 --> 00:18:21,401 how long that secret life was 761 00:18:21,401 --> 00:18:22,635 and neither do I. 762 00:18:22,635 --> 00:18:25,338 It could have been her plan 763 00:18:22,635 --> 00:18:25,338 to want to end that 764 00:18:25,338 --> 00:18:27,774 the day when she asked me 765 00:18:25,338 --> 00:18:27,774 why I had to leave so early. 766 00:18:27,774 --> 00:18:32,746 I don't know. But I'm not going 767 00:18:27,774 --> 00:18:32,746 to hate her for being human. 768 00:18:32,746 --> 00:18:35,849 - Do you blame yourself? 769 00:18:35,849 --> 00:18:38,685 - A little bit. 770 00:18:38,685 --> 00:18:42,589 - 22 summers 771 00:18:38,685 --> 00:18:42,589 came and went. 772 00:18:42,589 --> 00:18:46,192 John Heckel remarried. 773 00:18:42,589 --> 00:18:46,192 The kids grew up. 774 00:18:46,192 --> 00:18:48,661 They started 775 00:18:46,192 --> 00:18:48,661 new lives out west. 776 00:18:48,661 --> 00:18:53,660 Alicia became a ski pro, 777 00:18:48,661 --> 00:18:53,660 John a fishing guide. 778 00:18:53,660 --> 00:18:54,701 But through it all, 779 00:18:54,701 --> 00:18:57,704 their mother was never far 780 00:18:54,701 --> 00:18:57,704 from their thoughts. 781 00:18:57,704 --> 00:19:01,875 - She missed all those 782 00:18:57,704 --> 00:19:01,875 childhood memories. 783 00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:06,579 I mean, things like going 784 00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:06,579 to the prom, and boyfriends, 785 00:19:06,579 --> 00:19:12,185 and kisses and just-- 786 00:19:06,579 --> 00:19:12,185 just everything. 787 00:19:12,185 --> 00:19:14,200 - She missed 788 00:19:12,185 --> 00:19:14,200 our-our weddings. 789 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,257 I mean, she missed 790 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,257 our graduations. 791 00:19:17,257 --> 00:19:21,761 She doesn't know 792 00:19:17,257 --> 00:19:21,761 her only grandchild. 793 00:19:21,761 --> 00:19:25,265 - And you probably thought 794 00:19:21,761 --> 00:19:25,265 about her at each one of those. 795 00:19:25,265 --> 00:19:27,267 - Mmm-hmm. 796 00:19:25,265 --> 00:19:27,267 - Mmm-hmm. 797 00:19:27,267 --> 00:19:30,804 - Clinton County never 798 00:19:27,267 --> 00:19:30,804 forgot Kathy Heckel either. 799 00:19:30,804 --> 00:19:35,141 She'd become a part of history 800 00:19:30,804 --> 00:19:35,141 that just wouldn't go away. 801 00:19:35,141 --> 00:19:38,645 And as one generation 802 00:19:35,141 --> 00:19:38,645 of lawmen retired, 803 00:19:38,645 --> 00:19:42,480 another rose to take up 804 00:19:38,645 --> 00:19:42,480 the unfinished business 805 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,520 and discovered enticing details 806 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,520 buried in a very old file. 807 00:19:50,457 --> 00:19:52,392 - When I, uh, 808 00:19:50,457 --> 00:19:52,392 obtained this case, 809 00:19:52,392 --> 00:19:53,827 it was 22 years old. 810 00:19:53,827 --> 00:19:55,895 - And it had passed through 811 00:19:53,827 --> 00:19:55,895 a lot of other hands. 812 00:19:55,895 --> 00:19:58,231 - 60 other investigators. 813 00:19:58,231 --> 00:19:59,666 - 60? 814 00:19:58,231 --> 00:19:59,666 - 60. 815 00:19:59,666 --> 00:20:02,535 - He was 8 when 816 00:19:59,666 --> 00:20:02,535 Kathy disappeared. 817 00:20:02,535 --> 00:20:05,405 Now, he was in charge 818 00:20:02,535 --> 00:20:05,405 of her case. 819 00:20:05,405 --> 00:20:08,842 - What I remember growing up 820 00:20:05,405 --> 00:20:08,842 is where was she? 821 00:20:08,842 --> 00:20:11,845 Where was Kathy at 822 00:20:08,842 --> 00:20:11,845 during all this time? 823 00:20:11,845 --> 00:20:14,981 - And the leading suspect 824 00:20:11,845 --> 00:20:14,981 suddenly leaves town. 825 00:20:14,981 --> 00:20:18,251 - About three weeks after 826 00:20:14,981 --> 00:20:18,251 the disappearance of Kathy, 827 00:20:18,251 --> 00:20:20,854 he moved his family 828 00:20:18,251 --> 00:20:20,854 back to Beaver, PA. 829 00:20:20,954 --> 00:20:34,868 Welcome back to 830 00:20:20,954 --> 00:20:34,868 "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 831 00:20:35,235 --> 00:20:36,670 I'm Craig Melvin. 832 00:20:36,670 --> 00:20:40,974 Detectives believed Kathy Heckel 833 00:20:36,670 --> 00:20:40,974 and Loyd Groves were lovers 834 00:20:40,974 --> 00:20:43,877 and that Loyd knew more 835 00:20:40,974 --> 00:20:43,877 about her disappearance 836 00:20:43,877 --> 00:20:45,178 than he 837 00:20:43,877 --> 00:20:45,178 was letting on. 838 00:20:45,178 --> 00:20:48,348 But with no body 839 00:20:45,178 --> 00:20:48,348 and little evidence, 840 00:20:48,348 --> 00:20:51,170 the case 841 00:20:48,348 --> 00:20:51,170 went into a deep freeze. 842 00:20:51,170 --> 00:20:53,687 Now, decades later, 843 00:20:51,170 --> 00:20:53,687 a new detective 844 00:20:53,687 --> 00:20:55,455 was about 845 00:20:53,687 --> 00:20:55,455 to turn up the heat. 846 00:20:55,455 --> 00:20:59,826 Here again is Josh Mankiewicz 847 00:20:55,455 --> 00:20:59,826 with "She Didn't Come Home". 848 00:21:01,828 --> 00:21:04,497 - For more than 20 years, 849 00:21:01,828 --> 00:21:04,497 Kathy Heckel's children 850 00:21:04,497 --> 00:21:08,680 lived with a feeling 851 00:21:04,497 --> 00:21:08,680 of unfocused fear. 852 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,138 - It's an unsettling 853 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,138 feeling that-- 854 00:21:12,138 --> 00:21:14,507 an unsettling 855 00:21:12,138 --> 00:21:14,507 feeling of fear 856 00:21:14,507 --> 00:21:16,976 that essentially 857 00:21:16,976 --> 00:21:19,612 something great 858 00:21:16,976 --> 00:21:19,612 in my life 859 00:21:19,612 --> 00:21:21,948 can be taken away 860 00:21:19,612 --> 00:21:21,948 at any-at any moment. 861 00:21:21,948 --> 00:21:23,883 - And you think that can all 862 00:21:21,948 --> 00:21:23,883 be traced back to your mom? 863 00:21:23,883 --> 00:21:25,352 - Absolutely. 864 00:21:23,883 --> 00:21:25,352 - Absolutely. 865 00:21:25,352 --> 00:21:28,880 - For their father John, 866 00:21:25,352 --> 00:21:28,880 those were years 867 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,524 spent struggling 868 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,524 to let go and move on. 869 00:21:31,524 --> 00:21:33,760 - I talked to Kathy 870 00:21:31,524 --> 00:21:33,760 a lot about it. 871 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,730 - What do you say to her? 872 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,730 - Just talk. 873 00:21:39,499 --> 00:21:42,235 Just ramble on. 874 00:21:39,499 --> 00:21:42,235 - And you just start 875 00:21:42,235 --> 00:21:45,372 talking to her out loud? 876 00:21:42,235 --> 00:21:45,372 - Yeah. 877 00:21:45,372 --> 00:21:47,240 Something will come up 878 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,844 that will remind me 879 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,844 of something we did. 880 00:21:50,844 --> 00:21:55,115 - Law enforcement had not 881 00:21:50,844 --> 00:21:55,115 forgotten Kathy Heckel. 882 00:21:55,115 --> 00:21:57,183 In the summer of 2013, 883 00:21:57,183 --> 00:22:00,860 a native son 884 00:21:57,183 --> 00:22:00,860 inherited the case. 885 00:22:00,860 --> 00:22:03,890 State Police Investigator 886 00:22:00,860 --> 00:22:03,890 Curtis Confer. 887 00:22:03,890 --> 00:22:04,824 - When I, uh, 888 00:22:03,890 --> 00:22:04,824 obtained this case, 889 00:22:04,824 --> 00:22:06,359 it was 22 years old. 890 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,194 - And it had passed through 891 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,194 a lot of other hands. 892 00:22:08,194 --> 00:22:10,497 - 60 other 893 00:22:08,194 --> 00:22:10,497 investigators. 894 00:22:10,497 --> 00:22:11,765 - 60? 895 00:22:10,497 --> 00:22:11,765 - 60. 896 00:22:11,765 --> 00:22:12,799 - And you thought 897 00:22:11,765 --> 00:22:12,799 I'm going to close it 898 00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:14,100 or I'm going 899 00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:14,100 to be the 61st. 900 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:16,690 And in a little while, 901 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:16,690 there will be a 62nd. 902 00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:17,837 - Well, Josh, what was 903 00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:17,837 interesting was 904 00:22:17,837 --> 00:22:21,608 it was 400 pages 905 00:22:17,837 --> 00:22:21,608 of reports, 906 00:22:21,608 --> 00:22:23,343 and I just read it. 907 00:22:23,343 --> 00:22:27,213 - To this 61st investigator, 908 00:22:23,343 --> 00:22:27,213 the reports were riveting. 909 00:22:27,213 --> 00:22:29,482 He'd heard the story 910 00:22:27,213 --> 00:22:29,482 as a child, 911 00:22:29,482 --> 00:22:31,751 and even had a connection 912 00:22:29,482 --> 00:22:31,751 to Loyd Groves, 913 00:22:31,751 --> 00:22:34,487 whose name was 914 00:22:31,751 --> 00:22:34,487 all over that file. 915 00:22:34,487 --> 00:22:35,989 - He came to 916 00:22:34,487 --> 00:22:35,989 my elementary school 917 00:22:35,989 --> 00:22:40,930 and did a presentation 918 00:22:35,989 --> 00:22:40,930 on making paper. 919 00:22:40,930 --> 00:22:41,327 - You saw a photo 920 00:22:40,930 --> 00:22:41,327 of him giving these. 921 00:22:41,327 --> 00:22:43,129 - Yeah, and I went, 922 00:22:41,327 --> 00:22:43,129 you know what? 923 00:22:43,129 --> 00:22:45,298 I remember him doing 924 00:22:43,129 --> 00:22:45,298 our-our school. 925 00:22:45,298 --> 00:22:47,267 - Confer was now convinced 926 00:22:47,267 --> 00:22:49,703 that at the time 927 00:22:47,267 --> 00:22:49,703 this picture was taken, 928 00:22:49,703 --> 00:22:53,707 Loyd Groves was having 929 00:22:49,703 --> 00:22:53,707 an affair with Kathy Heckel. 930 00:22:53,707 --> 00:22:55,241 Only two months later, 931 00:22:55,241 --> 00:22:59,546 investigators considered Groves 932 00:22:55,241 --> 00:22:59,546 a suspect in her disappearance. 933 00:22:59,546 --> 00:23:03,883 - What I remember growing up 934 00:22:59,546 --> 00:23:03,883 is where was she? 935 00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:06,953 Where was Kathy at 936 00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:06,953 during all this time? 937 00:23:06,953 --> 00:23:11,124 John Heckel was 938 00:23:06,953 --> 00:23:11,124 my brother's soccer coach. 939 00:23:11,124 --> 00:23:13,793 - The case files were 940 00:23:11,124 --> 00:23:13,793 chock-full of details-- 941 00:23:13,793 --> 00:23:17,397 a gun found in Loyd Groves' 942 00:23:13,793 --> 00:23:17,397 desk drawer, 943 00:23:17,397 --> 00:23:19,632 ammo found in his van, 944 00:23:19,632 --> 00:23:22,680 a curious chunk 945 00:23:19,632 --> 00:23:22,680 of carpet missing 946 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:23,703 from the back 947 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:23,703 of the van. 948 00:23:23,703 --> 00:23:24,938 - What was Loyd's 949 00:23:23,703 --> 00:23:24,938 explanation 950 00:23:24,938 --> 00:23:26,473 for cutting the carpet 951 00:23:24,938 --> 00:23:26,473 out of the van? 952 00:23:26,473 --> 00:23:30,276 - In 1991, he said that the kids 953 00:23:26,473 --> 00:23:30,276 were playing with tar and oil, 954 00:23:30,276 --> 00:23:33,790 and they got tar and oil 955 00:23:30,276 --> 00:23:33,790 in that section of the van. 956 00:23:33,790 --> 00:23:36,349 - That confirmed by anybody? 957 00:23:33,790 --> 00:23:36,349 - No, it was not. 958 00:23:36,349 --> 00:23:40,860 - That wasn't the only thing 959 00:23:36,349 --> 00:23:40,860 to jump off the page. 960 00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:42,522 The original investigators 961 00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:42,522 had a witness 962 00:23:42,522 --> 00:23:45,558 who'd reported seeing 963 00:23:42,522 --> 00:23:45,558 Kathy Heckel and Loyd Groves 964 00:23:45,558 --> 00:23:47,961 together in his parked van 965 00:23:47,961 --> 00:23:51,364 many times in the weeks 966 00:23:47,961 --> 00:23:51,364 before she disappeared, 967 00:23:51,364 --> 00:23:52,766 and there was evidence 968 00:23:52,766 --> 00:23:56,269 that on the day Kathy Heckel 969 00:23:52,766 --> 00:23:56,269 never returned from lunch, 970 00:23:56,269 --> 00:24:01,740 Loyd came back so late, 971 00:23:56,269 --> 00:24:01,740 he missed a 2 PM meeting. 972 00:24:01,740 --> 00:24:03,910 - Something that the original 973 00:24:01,740 --> 00:24:03,910 investigators found was 974 00:24:03,910 --> 00:24:05,779 that Loyd Groves 975 00:24:03,910 --> 00:24:05,779 wrote a letter to his wife 976 00:24:05,779 --> 00:24:08,481 announcing to the family 977 00:24:05,779 --> 00:24:08,481 that he was going to be arrested 978 00:24:08,481 --> 00:24:10,116 for the murder 979 00:24:08,481 --> 00:24:10,116 of Kathy Heckel. 980 00:24:10,116 --> 00:24:11,317 - This is right after 981 00:24:10,116 --> 00:24:11,317 the disappearance? 982 00:24:11,317 --> 00:24:13,119 - This is right after 983 00:24:11,317 --> 00:24:13,119 the disappearance, 984 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,890 and he wrote detailed notes 985 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,890 to his wife 986 00:24:16,890 --> 00:24:19,592 how to take care 987 00:24:16,890 --> 00:24:19,592 of the tractor, 988 00:24:19,592 --> 00:24:21,127 how to take care 989 00:24:19,592 --> 00:24:21,127 of the car. 990 00:24:21,127 --> 00:24:22,696 - This is a guy 991 00:24:21,127 --> 00:24:22,696 who likes to plan. 992 00:24:22,696 --> 00:24:25,632 - He is a planner, yes. 993 00:24:22,696 --> 00:24:25,632 Meticulous. 994 00:24:25,632 --> 00:24:27,200 - But he's not arrested. 995 00:24:25,632 --> 00:24:27,200 He was wrong. 996 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,635 - Yeah. 997 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,635 He was not arrested. 998 00:24:28,635 --> 00:24:33,730 About three weeks after, uh, 999 00:24:28,635 --> 00:24:33,730 the disappearance of Kathy, 1000 00:24:33,730 --> 00:24:35,675 he moved his family back 1001 00:24:33,730 --> 00:24:35,675 to Beaver, PA, 1002 00:24:35,675 --> 00:24:38,611 and then eventually selling 1003 00:24:35,675 --> 00:24:38,611 his home, leaving a-- 1004 00:24:38,611 --> 00:24:41,981 leaving a lot of his personal 1005 00:24:38,611 --> 00:24:41,981 items at his home. 1006 00:24:41,981 --> 00:24:43,817 - When he finished reading 1007 00:24:41,981 --> 00:24:43,817 the case file, 1008 00:24:43,817 --> 00:24:46,553 Confer called 1009 00:24:43,817 --> 00:24:46,553 the local FBI office 1010 00:24:46,553 --> 00:24:49,389 looking for some items 1011 00:24:46,553 --> 00:24:49,389 connected to the case. 1012 00:24:49,389 --> 00:24:52,325 It was then that he 1013 00:24:49,389 --> 00:24:52,325 connected with Mike Hutson, 1014 00:24:52,325 --> 00:24:53,893 a veteran state trooper 1015 00:24:53,893 --> 00:24:56,796 assigned to a joint 1016 00:24:53,893 --> 00:24:56,796 terrorism task force. 1017 00:24:56,796 --> 00:24:59,532 After Confer explained 1018 00:24:56,796 --> 00:24:59,532 what he was after, 1019 00:24:59,532 --> 00:25:02,350 Hutson asked 1020 00:24:59,532 --> 00:25:02,350 to see the file. 1021 00:25:02,350 --> 00:25:03,536 - I thought it was 1022 00:25:02,350 --> 00:25:03,536 a very good case. 1023 00:25:03,536 --> 00:25:08,475 I felt that there was, you know, 1024 00:25:03,536 --> 00:25:08,475 a very real suspect. 1025 00:25:08,475 --> 00:25:10,430 - When Hutson's partner, 1026 00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:13,213 FBI agent and former 1027 00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:13,213 prosecutor Kyle Moore, 1028 00:25:13,213 --> 00:25:15,849 read the file, 1029 00:25:13,213 --> 00:25:15,849 he, too, was hooked. 1030 00:25:15,849 --> 00:25:18,651 - This was something that 1031 00:25:15,849 --> 00:25:18,651 we wanted to do something about. 1032 00:25:18,651 --> 00:25:21,554 We wanted to see if there 1033 00:25:18,651 --> 00:25:21,554 was any way that, you know, 1034 00:25:21,554 --> 00:25:23,423 we could actually bring 1035 00:25:21,554 --> 00:25:23,423 it to a conclusion. 1036 00:25:23,423 --> 00:25:25,392 - So within days 1037 00:25:23,423 --> 00:25:25,392 of getting the case, 1038 00:25:25,392 --> 00:25:29,696 investigator number 61 1039 00:25:25,392 --> 00:25:29,696 had a team to help him. 1040 00:25:29,696 --> 00:25:32,132 - They had so much knowledge 1041 00:25:29,696 --> 00:25:32,132 that I didn't have. 1042 00:25:32,132 --> 00:25:33,333 It was by the grace of God 1043 00:25:33,333 --> 00:25:35,669 that they helped me 1044 00:25:33,333 --> 00:25:35,669 with this case. 1045 00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:39,572 - Time, it became clear, 1046 00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:39,572 was not on their side. 1047 00:25:39,572 --> 00:25:41,474 - It was basically 1048 00:25:39,572 --> 00:25:41,474 a now-or-never situation. 1049 00:25:41,474 --> 00:25:43,143 I always felt we were 1050 00:25:41,474 --> 00:25:43,143 just a heartbeat away 1051 00:25:43,143 --> 00:25:46,112 from losing a witness 1052 00:25:43,143 --> 00:25:46,112 to not having a case. 1053 00:25:46,112 --> 00:25:47,747 - As they worked the case, 1054 00:25:47,747 --> 00:25:51,651 the investigators knew 1055 00:25:47,747 --> 00:25:51,651 they had one ace in the hole. 1056 00:25:51,651 --> 00:25:55,188 In 1991, specks of blood 1057 00:25:51,651 --> 00:25:55,188 had been found 1058 00:25:55,188 --> 00:25:56,956 in Loyd Groves' van. 1059 00:25:56,956 --> 00:26:00,694 Advanced DNA tests 1060 00:25:56,956 --> 00:26:00,694 were done in 2004. 1061 00:26:00,694 --> 00:26:03,630 - Based off the fact that 1062 00:26:00,694 --> 00:26:03,630 there wasn't a DNA sample 1063 00:26:03,630 --> 00:26:04,631 from the victim, 1064 00:26:04,631 --> 00:26:06,866 they essentially 1065 00:26:04,631 --> 00:26:06,866 had to construct one 1066 00:26:06,866 --> 00:26:09,736 from the victim's mother 1067 00:26:06,866 --> 00:26:09,736 and father, you know, 1068 00:26:09,736 --> 00:26:13,139 essentially building 1069 00:26:09,736 --> 00:26:13,139 the victim's DNA profile. 1070 00:26:13,139 --> 00:26:17,430 - That DNA test proved 1071 00:26:13,139 --> 00:26:17,430 the blood was Kathy Heckel's, 1072 00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:18,712 but Trooper Confer says 1073 00:26:18,712 --> 00:26:21,748 it seems that bit of evidence 1074 00:26:18,712 --> 00:26:21,748 fell through the cracks, 1075 00:26:21,748 --> 00:26:24,184 because the lead investigator 1076 00:26:24,184 --> 00:26:26,519 and primary prosecutor 1077 00:26:24,184 --> 00:26:26,519 at the time 1078 00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:28,421 took medical leave. 1079 00:26:28,421 --> 00:26:29,856 One thing was clear 1080 00:26:29,856 --> 00:26:32,580 to all three 1081 00:26:29,856 --> 00:26:32,580 of the new investigators. 1082 00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:34,861 This case needed 1083 00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:34,861 more resources 1084 00:26:34,861 --> 00:26:39,566 and more prosecutorial muscle 1085 00:26:34,861 --> 00:26:39,566 than Clinton County possessed. 1086 00:26:39,566 --> 00:26:42,936 - We requested, uh, 1087 00:26:39,566 --> 00:26:42,936 that the district attorney 1088 00:26:42,936 --> 00:26:45,638 relinquish the case to 1089 00:26:42,936 --> 00:26:45,638 the attorney general's office 1090 00:26:45,638 --> 00:26:49,642 and, uh, the DA 1091 00:26:45,638 --> 00:26:49,642 at the time agreed. 1092 00:26:49,642 --> 00:26:53,279 - In early 2014, 1093 00:26:49,642 --> 00:26:53,279 a grand jury was empaneled 1094 00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:54,814 to review the evidence. 1095 00:26:54,814 --> 00:26:57,717 Hutson, Moore, and Confer 1096 00:26:54,814 --> 00:26:57,717 hit the road. 1097 00:26:57,717 --> 00:27:01,210 - So, we did interviews 1098 00:26:57,717 --> 00:27:01,210 in different states 1099 00:27:01,210 --> 00:27:04,557 and traveled the-the country 1100 00:27:01,210 --> 00:27:04,557 a little bit. 1101 00:27:04,557 --> 00:27:07,494 - The new investigators 1102 00:27:04,557 --> 00:27:07,494 tracked down old witnesses 1103 00:27:07,494 --> 00:27:09,629 and even found a new one, 1104 00:27:09,629 --> 00:27:11,731 a man who remembered 1105 00:27:09,629 --> 00:27:11,731 an argument 1106 00:27:11,731 --> 00:27:14,501 between Kathy Heckel 1107 00:27:11,731 --> 00:27:14,501 and Loyd Groves 1108 00:27:14,501 --> 00:27:16,836 on the day 1109 00:27:14,501 --> 00:27:16,836 she went missing. 1110 00:27:16,836 --> 00:27:18,638 The question was, 1111 00:27:18,638 --> 00:27:22,175 did police have enough 1112 00:27:18,638 --> 00:27:22,175 to make an arrest? 1113 00:27:25,345 --> 00:27:26,579 - I got to know 1114 00:27:25,345 --> 00:27:26,579 this family. 1115 00:27:26,579 --> 00:27:28,810 I was worried 1116 00:27:26,579 --> 00:27:28,810 a lot about them, 1117 00:27:28,810 --> 00:27:30,650 because I knew this would be 1118 00:27:28,810 --> 00:27:30,650 an ugly trial. 1119 00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:33,920 - Will it be Kathy 1120 00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:33,920 who ends up on trial? 1121 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,655 - Every single indiscretion 1122 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,655 of hers 1123 00:27:35,655 --> 00:27:37,323 was going to be announced 1124 00:27:35,655 --> 00:27:37,323 in open court. 1125 00:27:37,323 --> 00:27:39,559 - She was going to be punished 1126 00:27:37,323 --> 00:27:39,559 for being murdered. 1127 00:27:39,559 --> 00:27:43,129 - When "Dateline: 1128 00:27:39,559 --> 00:27:43,129 Secrets Uncovered" continues. 1129 00:27:43,229 --> 00:27:53,440 - As a military man, 1130 00:27:54,307 --> 00:27:57,644 John Heckel finds solace 1131 00:27:54,307 --> 00:27:57,644 on old battlefields. 1132 00:27:57,644 --> 00:28:00,580 The past is always 1133 00:27:57,644 --> 00:28:00,580 present there. 1134 00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:03,383 But for John, 1135 00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:03,383 no peace could be found here 1136 00:28:03,383 --> 00:28:06,319 as long as his wife's killer 1137 00:28:03,383 --> 00:28:06,319 walked free. 1138 00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:09,550 - I would always say, 1139 00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:09,550 "Where are we? 1140 00:28:09,550 --> 00:28:13,293 "How close are we 1141 00:28:09,550 --> 00:28:13,293 to getting him arrested?" 1142 00:28:13,293 --> 00:28:17,300 - And police would say, 1143 00:28:13,293 --> 00:28:17,300 "The DA won't go forward." 1144 00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:21,568 - Yeah. No, it's more like, 1145 00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:21,568 "We need more." 1146 00:28:21,568 --> 00:28:24,571 - The investigators 1147 00:28:21,568 --> 00:28:24,571 went looking for more. 1148 00:28:24,571 --> 00:28:26,272 They tracked down 1149 00:28:24,571 --> 00:28:26,272 new witnesses 1150 00:28:26,272 --> 00:28:28,942 and dug deep looking for 1151 00:28:26,272 --> 00:28:28,942 Kathy Heckel's body, 1152 00:28:28,942 --> 00:28:31,311 which they never found. 1153 00:28:31,311 --> 00:28:34,781 Even so, on January 28, 2015, 1154 00:28:34,781 --> 00:28:38,651 a grand jury indicted 1155 00:28:34,781 --> 00:28:38,651 Loyd Groves for murder, 1156 00:28:38,651 --> 00:28:41,554 largely on the strength 1157 00:28:38,651 --> 00:28:41,554 of the same evidence 1158 00:28:41,554 --> 00:28:44,357 that had been in the files 1159 00:28:41,554 --> 00:28:44,357 all along. 1160 00:28:44,357 --> 00:28:47,293 - It was literally 1161 00:28:44,357 --> 00:28:47,293 just like television. 1162 00:28:47,293 --> 00:28:50,930 We got there early, like 1163 00:28:47,293 --> 00:28:50,930 5 o'clock, and we set up. 1164 00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:53,199 As he was walking to his car, 1165 00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:53,199 we rolled right up, 1166 00:28:53,199 --> 00:28:55,835 jumped out, and when I put 1167 00:28:53,199 --> 00:28:55,835 the handcuffs on him, 1168 00:28:55,835 --> 00:28:58,772 I said, "You're under arrest 1169 00:28:55,835 --> 00:28:58,772 for the murder of Kathy Heckel." 1170 00:28:58,772 --> 00:29:01,641 - Did he say anything? 1171 00:28:58,772 --> 00:29:01,641 - Yeah, he, uh, told his son 1172 00:29:01,641 --> 00:29:03,476 that he needed to get 1173 00:29:01,641 --> 00:29:03,476 a different ride to work. 1174 00:29:03,476 --> 00:29:06,312 - So-- 1175 00:29:03,476 --> 00:29:06,312 - It really didn't faze him. 1176 00:29:06,312 --> 00:29:08,548 - Lo and behold, 1177 00:29:06,312 --> 00:29:08,548 Loyd Groves is arrested. 1178 00:29:08,548 --> 00:29:10,116 What was that like to hear? 1179 00:29:10,116 --> 00:29:15,155 - Inner thankfulness that 1180 00:29:10,116 --> 00:29:15,155 we were getting somewhere. 1181 00:29:15,155 --> 00:29:16,856 - Still a long way to go. 1182 00:29:16,856 --> 00:29:19,259 - Yeah, there's still 1183 00:29:16,856 --> 00:29:19,259 a long way to go. 1184 00:29:19,259 --> 00:29:20,493 - In many ways, 1185 00:29:20,493 --> 00:29:24,898 the arrest of 65-year-old 1186 00:29:20,493 --> 00:29:24,898 Loyd Groves was the easy part. 1187 00:29:24,898 --> 00:29:27,200 Legal maneuvering 1188 00:29:24,898 --> 00:29:27,200 delayed his trial 1189 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,703 another three-and-a-half years. 1190 00:29:29,703 --> 00:29:33,540 For the defense, that delay 1191 00:29:29,703 --> 00:29:33,540 gave their investigators time 1192 00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:36,343 to poke holes 1193 00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:36,343 in the prosecution's case. 1194 00:29:36,343 --> 00:29:39,479 - This case had holes 1195 00:29:36,343 --> 00:29:39,479 you could drive trucks through. 1196 00:29:39,479 --> 00:29:41,281 - Tom Bruno 1197 00:29:39,479 --> 00:29:41,281 and his wife Amy 1198 00:29:41,281 --> 00:29:43,750 were the defense team's 1199 00:29:41,281 --> 00:29:43,750 investigators. 1200 00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:46,586 - We were in the case 1201 00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:46,586 for nearly four years. 1202 00:29:46,586 --> 00:29:48,221 We actually 1203 00:29:46,586 --> 00:29:48,221 talked about him-- 1204 00:29:48,221 --> 00:29:50,190 I would guarantee, every day. 1205 00:29:48,221 --> 00:29:50,190 - Every day. 1206 00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:53,460 - Tom, a former cop, 1207 00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:53,460 knew how to look for flaws 1208 00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:55,610 in the police work. 1209 00:29:55,610 --> 00:29:57,630 Amy, a Lock Haven native, 1210 00:29:57,630 --> 00:29:59,366 had grown up with 1211 00:29:57,630 --> 00:29:59,366 the Kathy Heckel story. 1212 00:29:59,366 --> 00:30:00,834 - I mean, you talk 1213 00:29:59,366 --> 00:30:00,834 to anyone in town, 1214 00:30:00,834 --> 00:30:03,703 they would all say 1215 00:30:00,834 --> 00:30:03,703 that Loyd killed her, 1216 00:30:03,703 --> 00:30:07,374 and he put her in a vat of acid 1217 00:30:03,703 --> 00:30:07,374 and dissolved her body. 1218 00:30:07,374 --> 00:30:09,876 That was the working 1219 00:30:07,374 --> 00:30:09,876 theory for years. 1220 00:30:09,876 --> 00:30:14,470 - But Tom says the files he read 1221 00:30:09,876 --> 00:30:14,470 didn't prove any of that. 1222 00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:16,416 In fact, he says he found 1223 00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:16,416 a silver bullet 1224 00:30:16,416 --> 00:30:18,251 in those piles of documents. 1225 00:30:18,251 --> 00:30:21,454 - We actually discovered 1226 00:30:18,251 --> 00:30:21,454 that in the police reports, 1227 00:30:21,454 --> 00:30:22,756 in medical records, 1228 00:30:22,756 --> 00:30:24,657 that she had cut 1229 00:30:22,756 --> 00:30:24,657 her finger at work. 1230 00:30:24,657 --> 00:30:26,126 It was bleeding so badly 1231 00:30:26,126 --> 00:30:28,795 that she had to get it 1232 00:30:26,126 --> 00:30:28,795 treated three times. 1233 00:30:28,795 --> 00:30:31,998 And this was at the time 1234 00:30:28,795 --> 00:30:31,998 that she was allegedly in her-- 1235 00:30:31,998 --> 00:30:34,567 in Loyd's van every day. 1236 00:30:34,567 --> 00:30:36,169 - So if the prosecution 1237 00:30:36,169 --> 00:30:39,105 planned to make a big deal 1238 00:30:36,169 --> 00:30:39,105 out of a DNA test 1239 00:30:39,105 --> 00:30:42,709 showing Kathy Heckel's blood 1240 00:30:39,105 --> 00:30:42,709 in Loyd Groves' van, 1241 00:30:42,709 --> 00:30:46,112 the defense response 1242 00:30:42,709 --> 00:30:46,112 now would be, so what? 1243 00:30:46,112 --> 00:30:48,915 - They think it came from Kathy 1244 00:30:46,112 --> 00:30:48,915 because Loyd killed her, 1245 00:30:48,915 --> 00:30:52,986 but yet here's Kathy's blood 1246 00:30:48,915 --> 00:30:52,986 because she cut herself at work. 1247 00:30:52,986 --> 00:30:55,655 - I mean, if this isn't 1248 00:30:52,986 --> 00:30:55,655 reasonable doubt, what is? 1249 00:30:55,655 --> 00:30:59,125 - As the case went to trial 1250 00:30:55,655 --> 00:30:59,125 in November 2018, 1251 00:30:59,125 --> 00:31:03,630 Pennsylvania's Senior Deputy 1252 00:30:59,125 --> 00:31:03,630 Attorney General Daniel Dye 1253 00:31:03,630 --> 00:31:04,964 knew the defense 1254 00:31:03,630 --> 00:31:04,964 would do more 1255 00:31:04,964 --> 00:31:07,200 than just attack 1256 00:31:04,964 --> 00:31:07,200 their evidence. 1257 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,670 He feared they would 1258 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,670 attack Kathy Heckel too. 1259 00:31:10,670 --> 00:31:12,172 - I got to know this family. 1260 00:31:12,172 --> 00:31:13,707 I was worried 1261 00:31:12,172 --> 00:31:13,707 a lot about them, 1262 00:31:13,707 --> 00:31:16,276 because I knew this would be 1263 00:31:13,707 --> 00:31:16,276 an ugly trial. 1264 00:31:16,276 --> 00:31:18,311 - And that every single 1265 00:31:16,276 --> 00:31:18,311 indiscretion of hers 1266 00:31:18,311 --> 00:31:20,800 was going to be announced 1267 00:31:18,311 --> 00:31:20,800 in open court. 1268 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,615 - She was going to be punished 1269 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,615 for being murdered. 1270 00:31:22,615 --> 00:31:26,986 - The prosecution's case, 1271 00:31:22,615 --> 00:31:26,986 almost entirely circumstantial, 1272 00:31:26,986 --> 00:31:30,957 began with testimony from 1273 00:31:26,986 --> 00:31:30,957 Kathy Heckel's children. 1274 00:31:30,957 --> 00:31:32,592 - It was a little difficult, 1275 00:31:32,592 --> 00:31:38,231 but it felt good to be 1276 00:31:32,592 --> 00:31:38,231 in front of Loyd Groves 1277 00:31:38,231 --> 00:31:43,470 and have him look at me 1278 00:31:38,231 --> 00:31:43,470 and listen to-to my story. 1279 00:31:43,470 --> 00:31:44,938 - And how scary it was. 1280 00:31:44,938 --> 00:31:47,207 - Mm-hmm. 1281 00:31:44,938 --> 00:31:47,207 - Mm-hmm. 1282 00:31:47,207 --> 00:31:49,900 - According to friends 1283 00:31:47,207 --> 00:31:49,900 and family, 1284 00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:53,113 Kathy Heckel was a devoted 1285 00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:53,113 daughter, a loving mom. 1286 00:31:53,113 --> 00:31:56,449 At the same time, 1287 00:31:53,113 --> 00:31:56,449 she was also restless. 1288 00:31:56,449 --> 00:31:59,819 Tell me what was going on 1289 00:31:56,449 --> 00:31:59,819 in her life at that time. 1290 00:31:59,819 --> 00:32:02,789 - Her life at that time 1291 00:31:59,819 --> 00:32:02,789 was a lonely life. 1292 00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:05,158 Uh, John Heckel 1293 00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:05,158 is a good guy, 1294 00:32:05,158 --> 00:32:07,930 but his first love 1295 00:32:05,158 --> 00:32:07,930 was the military, 1296 00:32:07,930 --> 00:32:10,630 and Kathy was, you know, 1297 00:32:07,930 --> 00:32:10,630 having affairs, 1298 00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:11,731 and one of them was 1299 00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:11,731 with Loyd Groves. 1300 00:32:11,731 --> 00:32:15,168 - Another lover, 1301 00:32:11,731 --> 00:32:15,168 the guitar man Dennis Taylor, 1302 00:32:15,168 --> 00:32:19,706 said Kathy had told him all 1303 00:32:15,168 --> 00:32:19,706 about that unraveling affair. 1304 00:32:19,706 --> 00:32:21,775 - Kathy was trying to break off 1305 00:32:19,706 --> 00:32:21,775 the relationship. 1306 00:32:21,775 --> 00:32:22,909 We know that. 1307 00:32:22,909 --> 00:32:24,878 Loyd did not want 1308 00:32:22,909 --> 00:32:24,878 the relationship to end, 1309 00:32:24,878 --> 00:32:27,447 and he specifically wanted 1310 00:32:24,878 --> 00:32:27,447 to meet for lunch on that day. 1311 00:32:27,447 --> 00:32:29,820 - Did Loyd Groves know 1312 00:32:27,447 --> 00:32:29,820 about Denny Taylor? 1313 00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:31,685 - He did. Uh, we had evidence 1314 00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:31,685 in the case 1315 00:32:31,685 --> 00:32:33,853 that Groves 1316 00:32:31,685 --> 00:32:33,853 was following Kathy. 1317 00:32:33,853 --> 00:32:35,522 - Dennis Taylor testified 1318 00:32:33,853 --> 00:32:35,522 that Kathy had expressed 1319 00:32:35,522 --> 00:32:37,257 some fear about Loyd. 1320 00:32:35,522 --> 00:32:37,257 - Right. 1321 00:32:37,257 --> 00:32:38,324 - Raise your right hand. 1322 00:32:38,324 --> 00:32:40,160 - In a special hearing, 1323 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,328 two former paper plant 1324 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,328 employees, 1325 00:32:42,328 --> 00:32:43,697 who'd been in poor health, 1326 00:32:43,697 --> 00:32:47,133 had their trial testimony 1327 00:32:43,697 --> 00:32:47,133 prerecorded. 1328 00:32:47,133 --> 00:32:50,737 One said he'd overheard 1329 00:32:47,133 --> 00:32:50,737 Kathy Heckel and Loyd Groves 1330 00:32:50,737 --> 00:32:53,373 arguing the day 1331 00:32:50,737 --> 00:32:53,373 Kathy went missing. 1332 00:32:53,373 --> 00:32:54,874 - Just loud. 1333 00:32:54,874 --> 00:32:56,109 - The other said she saw 1334 00:32:56,109 --> 00:32:59,112 Loyd Groves staring daggers 1335 00:32:56,109 --> 00:32:59,112 at Kathy Heckel 1336 00:32:59,112 --> 00:33:01,414 as she left for lunch 1337 00:32:59,112 --> 00:33:01,414 that day. 1338 00:33:01,414 --> 00:33:04,500 - His face was so red, 1339 00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:08,154 just like he was 1340 00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:08,154 terribly angry, 1341 00:33:08,154 --> 00:33:11,291 and he was looking 1342 00:33:08,154 --> 00:33:11,291 at Kathy. 1343 00:33:11,291 --> 00:33:13,860 - Kathy pulls out. 1344 00:33:11,291 --> 00:33:13,860 Loyd pulls out after. 1345 00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:16,396 We believe that 1346 00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:16,396 they did meet, 1347 00:33:16,396 --> 00:33:18,365 that somehow, 1348 00:33:16,396 --> 00:33:18,365 some way, 1349 00:33:18,365 --> 00:33:20,400 Kathy was cajoled 1350 00:33:18,365 --> 00:33:20,400 into one last meet 1351 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,235 just to hear Loyd out, 1352 00:33:22,235 --> 00:33:24,904 and at that point in time, 1353 00:33:22,235 --> 00:33:24,904 Loyd shot her, 1354 00:33:24,904 --> 00:33:27,974 shoved her in that van, 1355 00:33:24,904 --> 00:33:27,974 likely with a head wound. 1356 00:33:27,974 --> 00:33:31,770 - According to witnesses, 1357 00:33:27,974 --> 00:33:31,770 Groves was back at the plant 1358 00:33:31,770 --> 00:33:34,714 some time between 2:00 1359 00:33:31,770 --> 00:33:34,714 and 3:00 that afternoon. 1360 00:33:34,714 --> 00:33:36,820 - You think Loyd Groves 1361 00:33:34,714 --> 00:33:36,820 kills her, 1362 00:33:36,820 --> 00:33:37,717 disposes of her body, 1363 00:33:37,717 --> 00:33:39,452 and manages to get 1364 00:33:37,717 --> 00:33:39,452 back to work that day 1365 00:33:39,452 --> 00:33:43,523 and act like nothing is wrong 1366 00:33:39,452 --> 00:33:43,523 and gets away with it? 1367 00:33:43,523 --> 00:33:45,725 - I think it's because 1368 00:33:43,523 --> 00:33:45,725 he's smart and a good planner. 1369 00:33:45,725 --> 00:33:47,427 To him, I think 1370 00:33:45,725 --> 00:33:47,427 murder is something 1371 00:33:47,427 --> 00:33:49,162 that can be done 1372 00:33:47,427 --> 00:33:49,162 over a lunch hour. 1373 00:33:49,162 --> 00:33:52,632 - The prosecution wrapped up 1374 00:33:49,162 --> 00:33:52,632 its case with two witnesses, 1375 00:33:52,632 --> 00:33:56,200 people who only surfaced 1376 00:33:52,632 --> 00:33:56,200 shortly before trial. 1377 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,640 The first was Loyd Groves' 1378 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,640 now ex-wife. 1379 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,442 - There was something 1380 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,442 she had been holding back 1381 00:34:02,442 --> 00:34:04,844 on telling for the past 1382 00:34:02,442 --> 00:34:04,844 roughly 30 years, 1383 00:34:04,844 --> 00:34:07,347 and that was that Loyd Groves 1384 00:34:04,844 --> 00:34:07,347 did come home 1385 00:34:07,347 --> 00:34:11,117 over the work hour 1386 00:34:07,347 --> 00:34:11,117 on July 15, 1991. 1387 00:34:11,117 --> 00:34:12,418 - Something he 1388 00:34:11,117 --> 00:34:12,418 almost never did. 1389 00:34:12,418 --> 00:34:14,721 - Which he never did, 1390 00:34:12,418 --> 00:34:14,721 and changed out of his clothes, 1391 00:34:14,721 --> 00:34:18,580 and she never saw the condition 1392 00:34:14,721 --> 00:34:18,580 that those clothes were in. 1393 00:34:18,580 --> 00:34:22,495 - The next person to testify 1394 00:34:18,580 --> 00:34:22,495 was this woman, Gayle Taylor. 1395 00:34:22,495 --> 00:34:24,697 She also had 1396 00:34:22,495 --> 00:34:24,697 a story to tell 1397 00:34:24,697 --> 00:34:27,467 that she'd kept to herself 1398 00:34:24,697 --> 00:34:27,467 for decades. 1399 00:34:27,467 --> 00:34:29,469 It was the mid '90s. 1400 00:34:29,469 --> 00:34:33,139 Taylor said she and Groves 1401 00:34:29,469 --> 00:34:33,139 worked together in Ohio. 1402 00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:36,676 According to Taylor, she went 1403 00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:36,676 to Groves one day to vent 1404 00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:40,213 after she'd discovered drugs 1405 00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:40,213 in her son's room. 1406 00:34:40,213 --> 00:34:41,947 - I was like, "I don't know 1407 00:34:40,213 --> 00:34:41,947 what I'm going to do 1408 00:34:41,947 --> 00:34:42,815 "with this kid. 1409 00:34:42,815 --> 00:34:44,117 "He's going to get 1410 00:34:42,815 --> 00:34:44,117 into trouble. 1411 00:34:44,117 --> 00:34:45,784 "He's going to end up dying. 1412 00:34:44,117 --> 00:34:45,784 If he-- 1413 00:34:45,784 --> 00:34:48,487 "If the drugs don't kill him, 1414 00:34:45,784 --> 00:34:48,487 his mother will." 1415 00:34:48,487 --> 00:34:50,623 And Loyd was sitting 1416 00:34:48,487 --> 00:34:50,623 at his desk, 1417 00:34:50,623 --> 00:34:52,992 and he just very calmly said, 1418 00:34:52,992 --> 00:34:56,663 "Well, I know how to 1419 00:34:52,992 --> 00:34:56,663 get rid of a body 1420 00:34:56,663 --> 00:34:59,566 "so it would never, 1421 00:34:56,663 --> 00:34:59,566 ever be found." 1422 00:34:59,566 --> 00:35:02,369 - The defense's argument 1423 00:34:59,566 --> 00:35:02,369 was he was joking. 1424 00:35:02,369 --> 00:35:05,380 - I sure wouldn't joke about 1425 00:35:02,369 --> 00:35:05,380 being able to dispose of a body 1426 00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:06,139 where no one could 1427 00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:06,139 ever find it 1428 00:35:06,139 --> 00:35:08,410 if I had been investigated 1429 00:35:06,139 --> 00:35:08,410 for killing somebody 1430 00:35:08,410 --> 00:35:09,576 and they'd never 1431 00:35:08,410 --> 00:35:09,576 found the body. 1432 00:35:09,576 --> 00:35:12,579 - The prosecution 1433 00:35:09,576 --> 00:35:12,579 closed its case by asking, 1434 00:35:12,579 --> 00:35:16,249 who but Loyd Groves could have 1435 00:35:12,579 --> 00:35:16,249 killed Kathy Heckel? 1436 00:35:16,249 --> 00:35:19,352 And in return, 1437 00:35:16,249 --> 00:35:19,352 the defense stood ready 1438 00:35:19,352 --> 00:35:22,822 to ask a provocative 1439 00:35:19,352 --> 00:35:22,822 question of its own. 1440 00:35:22,822 --> 00:35:25,825 Could Kathy Heckel 1441 00:35:22,822 --> 00:35:25,825 have simply run away? 1442 00:35:29,950 --> 00:35:31,164 - Did you really think 1443 00:35:29,950 --> 00:35:31,164 she lived past that day? 1444 00:35:31,164 --> 00:35:33,199 - I certainly have 1445 00:35:31,164 --> 00:35:33,199 a reasonable doubt 1446 00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:35,168 as to whether she died 1447 00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:35,168 that day. 1448 00:35:35,168 --> 00:35:38,171 - Would the jury 1449 00:35:35,168 --> 00:35:38,171 have the same doubt? 1450 00:35:38,171 --> 00:35:40,874 - It was a nervous moment, 1451 00:35:38,171 --> 00:35:40,874 absolutely. 1452 00:35:40,874 --> 00:35:44,344 I was nervous, and we 1453 00:35:40,874 --> 00:35:44,344 were all holding hands. 1454 00:35:44,444 --> 00:35:55,955 Welcome back. 1455 00:35:56,923 --> 00:36:00,126 Loyd Groves was on trial 1456 00:35:56,923 --> 00:36:00,126 for Kathy Heckel's murder. 1457 00:36:00,126 --> 00:36:03,960 Prosecutors leaned on 1458 00:36:00,126 --> 00:36:03,960 circumstantial evidence 1459 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,466 including testimony from a woman 1460 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,466 who said Loyd told her 1461 00:36:06,466 --> 00:36:10,360 he could get rid 1462 00:36:06,466 --> 00:36:10,360 of a body permanently. 1463 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,371 But Loyd's attorneys 1464 00:36:11,371 --> 00:36:14,274 were ready to point the finger 1465 00:36:11,371 --> 00:36:14,274 at a different man, 1466 00:36:14,274 --> 00:36:18,545 someone they believed 1467 00:36:14,274 --> 00:36:18,545 had a powerful motive to kill. 1468 00:36:18,545 --> 00:36:20,460 Here's Josh Mankiewicz 1469 00:36:20,460 --> 00:36:24,184 with the conclusion 1470 00:36:20,460 --> 00:36:24,184 of "She Didn't Come Home". 1471 00:36:24,184 --> 00:36:27,921 - The Loyd Groves defense team 1472 00:36:24,184 --> 00:36:27,921 could hardly wait 1473 00:36:27,921 --> 00:36:29,923 to make their case 1474 00:36:27,921 --> 00:36:29,923 to the jury. 1475 00:36:29,923 --> 00:36:31,658 - It was like you're 1476 00:36:29,923 --> 00:36:31,658 playing cards, 1477 00:36:31,658 --> 00:36:33,590 and you have four aces, 1478 00:36:33,590 --> 00:36:34,461 and you're waiting 1479 00:36:33,590 --> 00:36:34,461 to play them. 1480 00:36:34,461 --> 00:36:36,629 That's what we felt like 1481 00:36:34,461 --> 00:36:36,629 over the last few years. 1482 00:36:36,629 --> 00:36:40,467 - George Lepley was one of two 1483 00:36:36,629 --> 00:36:40,467 lawyers defending Groves. 1484 00:36:40,467 --> 00:36:41,901 - I don't think there was 1485 00:36:40,467 --> 00:36:41,901 enough evidence, 1486 00:36:41,901 --> 00:36:45,305 and what evidence 1487 00:36:41,901 --> 00:36:45,305 they did present had issues 1488 00:36:45,305 --> 00:36:48,141 questioning whether 1489 00:36:45,305 --> 00:36:48,141 it was reliable enough 1490 00:36:48,141 --> 00:36:51,770 to justify taking the rest 1491 00:36:48,141 --> 00:36:51,770 of a man's life away. 1492 00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:52,780 - For a defense team 1493 00:36:52,780 --> 00:36:54,848 that had spent years 1494 00:36:52,780 --> 00:36:54,848 reviewing police reports, 1495 00:36:54,848 --> 00:36:57,317 one thing 1496 00:36:54,848 --> 00:36:57,317 seemed obvious. 1497 00:36:57,317 --> 00:37:00,453 - When the police learned of 1498 00:36:57,317 --> 00:37:00,453 something that implicated Loyd, 1499 00:37:00,453 --> 00:37:02,222 they were 1500 00:37:00,453 --> 00:37:02,222 on top of it. 1501 00:37:02,222 --> 00:37:04,824 Whenever there was another 1502 00:37:02,222 --> 00:37:04,824 avenue to pursue, 1503 00:37:04,824 --> 00:37:07,270 it just kind of would fall 1504 00:37:04,824 --> 00:37:07,270 by the wayside. 1505 00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:08,928 - This was more 1506 00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:08,928 about the police 1507 00:37:08,928 --> 00:37:12,132 trying to prove that it was 1508 00:37:08,928 --> 00:37:12,132 Loyd Groves that did this crime 1509 00:37:12,132 --> 00:37:13,233 than it was about them 1510 00:37:13,233 --> 00:37:15,902 trying to find out 1511 00:37:13,233 --> 00:37:15,902 who killed Kathy Heckel, 1512 00:37:15,902 --> 00:37:17,704 if indeed she was killed. 1513 00:37:17,704 --> 00:37:20,807 - The defense argued 1514 00:37:17,704 --> 00:37:20,807 the guitar man, Dennis Taylor, 1515 00:37:20,807 --> 00:37:22,842 should have gotten 1516 00:37:20,807 --> 00:37:22,842 a closer look. 1517 00:37:22,842 --> 00:37:24,511 - Yes, she had an affair 1518 00:37:22,842 --> 00:37:24,511 with Loyd. 1519 00:37:24,511 --> 00:37:27,914 But she also was having 1520 00:37:24,511 --> 00:37:27,914 an affair with Dennis Taylor. 1521 00:37:27,914 --> 00:37:30,183 - Taylor had told police 1522 00:37:27,914 --> 00:37:30,183 he played golf 1523 00:37:30,183 --> 00:37:32,686 the afternoon Kathy Heckel 1524 00:37:30,183 --> 00:37:32,686 went missing. 1525 00:37:32,686 --> 00:37:36,256 - They went to check 1526 00:37:32,686 --> 00:37:36,256 his alibi out 13 months later, 1527 00:37:36,256 --> 00:37:39,592 not right away, 1528 00:37:36,256 --> 00:37:39,592 and when they go there, 1529 00:37:39,592 --> 00:37:41,695 a log that he has 1530 00:37:39,592 --> 00:37:41,695 to write in 1531 00:37:41,695 --> 00:37:43,630 to show that he was 1532 00:37:41,695 --> 00:37:43,630 golfing there, 1533 00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:45,398 the pages were missing. 1534 00:37:45,398 --> 00:37:46,933 Isn't that convenient? 1535 00:37:46,933 --> 00:37:48,568 - And, of course, 1536 00:37:46,933 --> 00:37:48,568 the defense argued, 1537 00:37:48,568 --> 00:37:49,636 Kathy Heckel's affairs 1538 00:37:49,636 --> 00:37:51,404 could have also provided 1539 00:37:49,636 --> 00:37:51,404 her husband 1540 00:37:51,404 --> 00:37:53,173 with a motive for murder. 1541 00:37:53,173 --> 00:37:55,775 Weeks after Kathy disappeared, 1542 00:37:53,173 --> 00:37:55,775 the defense noted, 1543 00:37:55,775 --> 00:37:59,212 John Heckel discarded 1544 00:37:55,775 --> 00:37:59,212 some of her personal items. 1545 00:37:59,212 --> 00:38:03,216 - Her husband throws away 1546 00:37:59,212 --> 00:38:03,216 her purse, her wallet, 1547 00:38:03,216 --> 00:38:05,518 her photo ID. 1548 00:38:05,518 --> 00:38:07,200 It isn't that he throws it 1549 00:38:05,518 --> 00:38:07,200 in a garbage can 1550 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,588 in front of his house 1551 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,588 where somebody might see it. 1552 00:38:08,588 --> 00:38:11,358 It's in a dumpster 1553 00:38:08,588 --> 00:38:11,358 in the back of the reserve base. 1554 00:38:11,358 --> 00:38:13,259 - You're saying that he 1555 00:38:11,358 --> 00:38:13,259 wanted to conceal that? 1556 00:38:13,259 --> 00:38:15,762 - What more logical 1557 00:38:13,259 --> 00:38:15,762 conclusion is there? 1558 00:38:15,762 --> 00:38:19,320 - Did John Heckel have 1559 00:38:15,762 --> 00:38:19,320 something to hide? 1560 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,835 The defense didn't offer 1561 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,835 an answer for that, 1562 00:38:21,835 --> 00:38:26,720 and John Heckel says he doesn't 1563 00:38:21,835 --> 00:38:26,720 remember much about those days. 1564 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:28,174 - I don't recollect throwing 1565 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:28,174 anything like that out. 1566 00:38:28,174 --> 00:38:29,743 - The defense even suggested 1567 00:38:29,743 --> 00:38:34,381 that Kathy Heckel may not 1568 00:38:29,743 --> 00:38:34,381 have died on July 15, 1991. 1569 00:38:34,381 --> 00:38:36,783 - Did you really think 1570 00:38:34,381 --> 00:38:36,783 she lived past that day? 1571 00:38:36,783 --> 00:38:38,785 - I certainly have 1572 00:38:36,783 --> 00:38:38,785 a reasonable doubt 1573 00:38:38,785 --> 00:38:40,920 as to whether 1574 00:38:38,785 --> 00:38:40,920 she died that day. 1575 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,489 - To support that theory, 1576 00:38:42,489 --> 00:38:45,125 the defense introduced 1577 00:38:42,489 --> 00:38:45,125 statements John Heckel made 1578 00:38:45,125 --> 00:38:46,960 more than 20 years ago. 1579 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,795 In one, Heckel said 1580 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,795 he thought 1581 00:38:48,795 --> 00:38:51,364 his wife may have siphoned 1582 00:38:48,795 --> 00:38:51,364 thousands of dollars 1583 00:38:51,364 --> 00:38:53,199 from a joint bank account. 1584 00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:55,568 In another, he asked 1585 00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:55,568 investigators 1586 00:38:55,568 --> 00:38:58,405 if a woman pictured 1587 00:38:55,568 --> 00:38:58,405 in a swinger's magazine 1588 00:38:58,405 --> 00:39:00,306 might be his wife. 1589 00:39:00,306 --> 00:39:01,908 - Is there any 1590 00:39:00,306 --> 00:39:01,908 credible argument 1591 00:39:01,908 --> 00:39:04,878 that Kathy Heckel 1592 00:39:01,908 --> 00:39:04,878 squirreled away money, 1593 00:39:04,878 --> 00:39:08,815 vanished, ran out on 1594 00:39:04,878 --> 00:39:08,815 her husband and her family, 1595 00:39:08,815 --> 00:39:10,817 and then posed 1596 00:39:08,815 --> 00:39:10,817 for pictures 1597 00:39:10,817 --> 00:39:12,786 that were put in 1598 00:39:10,817 --> 00:39:12,786 a swinger's magazine 1599 00:39:12,786 --> 00:39:14,354 that anybody 1600 00:39:12,786 --> 00:39:14,354 could have seen? 1601 00:39:14,354 --> 00:39:16,489 - I certainly don't think it 1602 00:39:14,354 --> 00:39:16,489 has been disproven 1603 00:39:16,489 --> 00:39:19,392 beyond a reasonable doubt that 1604 00:39:16,489 --> 00:39:19,392 that could have occurred. 1605 00:39:19,392 --> 00:39:23,196 - On the stand, John Heckel said 1606 00:39:19,392 --> 00:39:23,196 those decades-old statements 1607 00:39:23,196 --> 00:39:27,200 had been the frantic musings 1608 00:39:23,196 --> 00:39:27,200 of a desperate man. 1609 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,603 - I was grasping anything 1610 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,603 I could think of 1611 00:39:30,603 --> 00:39:33,606 to try to find out what 1612 00:39:30,603 --> 00:39:33,606 happened to my wife. 1613 00:39:33,606 --> 00:39:36,876 - The defense conceded 1614 00:39:33,606 --> 00:39:36,876 Groves did go home that day 1615 00:39:36,876 --> 00:39:38,440 to change his shirt, 1616 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,880 but said that was because he had 1617 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,880 gotten dirty at the plant 1618 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,650 where he had to lead a tour for 1619 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,650 a group of children 1620 00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:46,252 at 3 o'clock 1621 00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:46,252 that afternoon. 1622 00:39:46,252 --> 00:39:49,122 And that lunch hour 1623 00:39:46,252 --> 00:39:49,122 trip home, they argued, 1624 00:39:49,122 --> 00:39:51,891 simply made the prosecution's 1625 00:39:49,122 --> 00:39:51,891 version of events 1626 00:39:51,891 --> 00:39:53,960 even more unlikely. 1627 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,463 - If you factored in 1628 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,463 all of the witnesses 1629 00:39:56,463 --> 00:39:57,831 when they saw him 1630 00:39:56,463 --> 00:39:57,831 at the plant, 1631 00:39:57,831 --> 00:40:00,660 how does he have 1632 00:39:57,831 --> 00:40:00,660 anywhere near enough time 1633 00:40:00,660 --> 00:40:02,680 for him to have done 1634 00:40:00,660 --> 00:40:02,680 what they claim he did? 1635 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:03,937 - For 27 years, 1636 00:40:03,937 --> 00:40:06,506 the question of what had 1637 00:40:03,937 --> 00:40:06,506 happened to Kathy Heckel 1638 00:40:06,506 --> 00:40:09,750 had hung over 1639 00:40:06,506 --> 00:40:09,750 Lock Haven. 1640 00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:11,911 Now it was up to 1641 00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:11,911 a Clinton County jury 1642 00:40:11,911 --> 00:40:14,814 to finally provide 1643 00:40:11,911 --> 00:40:14,814 an answer. 1644 00:40:14,814 --> 00:40:17,617 - It was, uh, contentious. 1645 00:40:14,814 --> 00:40:17,617 - Sean Sanford, 1646 00:40:17,617 --> 00:40:20,720 a toddler at the time 1647 00:40:17,617 --> 00:40:20,720 Kathy Heckel disappeared, 1648 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,455 was the jury foreman. 1649 00:40:22,455 --> 00:40:25,558 - The very first vote 1650 00:40:22,455 --> 00:40:25,558 we took was seven/five, 1651 00:40:25,558 --> 00:40:27,794 eight/four for guilty. 1652 00:40:27,794 --> 00:40:30,363 I thought it was going to be 1653 00:40:27,794 --> 00:40:30,363 the other way for acquittal. 1654 00:40:30,363 --> 00:40:32,132 - Why did you vote for 1655 00:40:30,363 --> 00:40:32,132 acquittal on that first vote? 1656 00:40:32,132 --> 00:40:35,350 - If you looked at every piece 1657 00:40:32,132 --> 00:40:35,350 of evidence individually, 1658 00:40:35,350 --> 00:40:39,372 you could poke holes in 1659 00:40:35,350 --> 00:40:39,372 all of it piece by piece. 1660 00:40:39,372 --> 00:40:41,207 - After breaking 1661 00:40:39,372 --> 00:40:41,207 for the weekend, 1662 00:40:41,207 --> 00:40:43,243 the jury returned 1663 00:40:41,207 --> 00:40:43,243 on Monday morning, 1664 00:40:43,243 --> 00:40:45,645 rested, but still 1665 00:40:43,243 --> 00:40:45,645 deadlocked. 1666 00:40:45,645 --> 00:40:48,114 - There was, uh, one juror, 1667 00:40:45,645 --> 00:40:48,114 in particular, 1668 00:40:48,114 --> 00:40:51,351 who was voting 1669 00:40:48,114 --> 00:40:51,351 for acquittal originally 1670 00:40:51,351 --> 00:40:52,585 who couldn't get 1671 00:40:51,351 --> 00:40:52,585 over the fact 1672 00:40:52,585 --> 00:40:55,522 that he thought the prime 1673 00:40:52,585 --> 00:40:55,522 suspect should be John Heckel. 1674 00:40:55,522 --> 00:40:59,592 - Over and over, jurors reviewed 1675 00:40:55,522 --> 00:40:59,592 and discussed the evidence. 1676 00:40:59,592 --> 00:41:02,395 Then, just before 3:00 1677 00:40:59,592 --> 00:41:02,395 that afternoon, 1678 00:41:02,395 --> 00:41:05,665 jurors notified the judge 1679 00:41:02,395 --> 00:41:05,665 they had reached a verdict. 1680 00:41:05,665 --> 00:41:08,868 - It-it was a nervous moment, 1681 00:41:05,665 --> 00:41:08,868 absolutely. 1682 00:41:08,868 --> 00:41:12,138 I-I was nervous, 1683 00:41:08,868 --> 00:41:12,138 and we were all holding hands. 1684 00:41:12,138 --> 00:41:15,909 - On the charge of first-degree 1685 00:41:12,138 --> 00:41:15,909 or premeditated murder, 1686 00:41:15,909 --> 00:41:18,778 the verdict 1687 00:41:15,909 --> 00:41:18,778 was not guilty. 1688 00:41:18,778 --> 00:41:21,948 Then, in what seemed to be 1689 00:41:18,778 --> 00:41:21,948 a compromise decision, 1690 00:41:21,948 --> 00:41:25,685 the jury found Groves guilty 1691 00:41:21,948 --> 00:41:25,685 of third-degree murder, 1692 00:41:25,685 --> 00:41:29,122 which is legally considered 1693 00:41:25,685 --> 00:41:29,122 a spontaneous act 1694 00:41:29,122 --> 00:41:31,910 in the heat of the moment. 1695 00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:33,426 - Did you look at Groves 1696 00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:33,426 during that time? 1697 00:41:33,426 --> 00:41:35,729 - No. I-I spent more time 1698 00:41:35,729 --> 00:41:37,897 looking at Kathy's picture 1699 00:41:35,729 --> 00:41:37,897 and crying. 1700 00:41:37,897 --> 00:41:41,401 - In a letter to "Dateline", 1701 00:41:37,897 --> 00:41:41,401 Loyd Groves once again denied 1702 00:41:41,401 --> 00:41:43,970 every having had 1703 00:41:41,401 --> 00:41:43,970 an affair with Kathy Heckel, 1704 00:41:43,970 --> 00:41:46,840 and said he'd been 1705 00:41:43,970 --> 00:41:46,840 wrongly convicted. 1706 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,744 At the age of 69, 1707 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,744 Groves was formally sentenced 1708 00:41:50,744 --> 00:41:54,114 to serve 10 to 20 years 1709 00:41:50,744 --> 00:41:54,114 in prison. 1710 00:41:54,114 --> 00:41:56,750 - Even with the third-degree 1711 00:41:54,114 --> 00:41:56,750 sentencing, 1712 00:41:56,750 --> 00:41:59,819 he'll still spend the rest 1713 00:41:56,750 --> 00:41:59,819 of his life in prison. 1714 00:41:59,819 --> 00:42:02,550 - That's enough for you. 1715 00:41:59,819 --> 00:42:02,550 - Mm-hmm. 1716 00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:03,590 - Mm-hmm. 1717 00:42:03,590 --> 00:42:05,925 - It's been more than 1718 00:42:03,590 --> 00:42:05,925 a quarter century 1719 00:42:05,925 --> 00:42:07,394 since the summer morning 1720 00:42:07,394 --> 00:42:10,330 when Kathy Heckel kissed 1721 00:42:07,394 --> 00:42:10,330 her children goodbye, 1722 00:42:10,330 --> 00:42:13,433 And although their wait 1723 00:42:10,330 --> 00:42:13,433 for justice is finally over, 1724 00:42:13,433 --> 00:42:17,404 they're still no closer to 1725 00:42:13,433 --> 00:42:17,404 knowing where their mother is 1726 00:42:17,404 --> 00:42:21,174 than they were on that 1727 00:42:17,404 --> 00:42:21,174 summer night in 1991 1728 00:42:21,174 --> 00:42:23,410 when she didn't come home. 1729 00:42:23,410 --> 00:42:27,147 So unless your mom's remains 1730 00:42:23,410 --> 00:42:27,147 are found accidentally, 1731 00:42:27,147 --> 00:42:29,115 you might 1732 00:42:27,147 --> 00:42:29,115 not ever know. 1733 00:42:29,115 --> 00:42:30,884 Are you going to 1734 00:42:29,115 --> 00:42:30,884 be okay with that? 1735 00:42:30,884 --> 00:42:32,419 - We have to live with it. 1736 00:42:32,419 --> 00:42:37,791 I mean, it's sad, 1737 00:42:32,419 --> 00:42:37,791 and it's disappointing 1738 00:42:37,791 --> 00:42:40,226 that we will never know, 1739 00:42:37,791 --> 00:42:40,226 or we may never know, 1740 00:42:40,226 --> 00:42:42,996 but we have to be 1741 00:42:40,226 --> 00:42:42,996 okay with it. 1742 00:42:45,899 --> 00:42:49,169 - That's all for this edition of 1743 00:42:45,899 --> 00:42:49,169 "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 1744 00:42:49,169 --> 00:42:49,302 I'm Craig Melvin. 1745 00:42:49,169 --> 00:42:49,302 Thank you for watching.