1 00:00:12,312 --> 00:00:12,679 - I'm Kate Snow. 2 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:15,982 And this is "Dateline: 3 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:15,982 Secrets Uncovered". 4 00:00:17,117 --> 00:00:19,386 - I did not kill him. 5 00:00:19,419 --> 00:00:23,189 I did not have anything to do 6 00:00:19,419 --> 00:00:23,189 with killing him. 7 00:00:23,223 --> 00:00:27,227 - It felt shocking 8 00:00:23,223 --> 00:00:27,227 and devastating. 9 00:00:27,260 --> 00:00:29,429 I mean, it was 10 00:00:27,260 --> 00:00:29,429 not in our minds. 11 00:00:29,462 --> 00:00:33,366 We really never believed 12 00:00:29,462 --> 00:00:33,366 that she was capable of this. 13 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,969 - They seemed 14 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,969 the ultimate power couple. 15 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,439 - He had all the medals; 16 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,439 Silver Star, Purple Heart. 17 00:00:39,472 --> 00:00:43,143 - She told me she would be 18 00:00:39,472 --> 00:00:43,143 traveling on secret missions. 19 00:00:43,176 --> 00:00:44,477 - Flying on 20 00:00:43,176 --> 00:00:44,477 Air Force Two. 21 00:00:44,511 --> 00:00:46,613 - Right, 22 00:00:44,511 --> 00:00:46,613 with the Vice President. 23 00:00:46,646 --> 00:00:48,214 - But it took 24 00:00:46,646 --> 00:00:48,214 a hidden camera 25 00:00:48,248 --> 00:00:50,884 to detect 26 00:00:48,248 --> 00:00:50,884 their real secret mission. 27 00:00:50,917 --> 00:00:53,186 - We started 28 00:00:50,917 --> 00:00:53,186 doing surveillance. 29 00:00:53,219 --> 00:00:55,355 We'd observe them 30 00:00:53,219 --> 00:00:55,355 outside their home. 31 00:00:55,388 --> 00:00:58,158 - Dark schemes 32 00:00:55,388 --> 00:00:58,158 and a deadly secret. 33 00:00:58,191 --> 00:01:01,610 - I'm thinking to myself, 34 00:00:58,191 --> 00:01:01,610 "This can't be true". 35 00:01:01,610 --> 00:01:03,563 - What had happened 36 00:01:01,610 --> 00:01:03,563 to her last husband? 37 00:01:03,596 --> 00:01:05,650 - She's screaming 38 00:01:05,650 --> 00:01:07,300 and she's like, 39 00:01:05,650 --> 00:01:07,300 "Bob's dead!" 40 00:01:07,334 --> 00:01:08,535 It was horrible. 41 00:01:08,568 --> 00:01:10,570 - We were just, like, 42 00:01:08,568 --> 00:01:10,570 in disbelief. 43 00:01:10,603 --> 00:01:13,506 - Whoever did this 44 00:01:10,603 --> 00:01:13,506 was very evil. 45 00:01:13,539 --> 00:01:15,875 - Her son suspected 46 00:01:13,539 --> 00:01:15,875 the truth. 47 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:17,644 Would he reveal it? 48 00:01:17,676 --> 00:01:21,981 - She looked at me with 49 00:01:17,676 --> 00:01:21,981 the most hate I've ever seen. 50 00:01:22,820 --> 00:01:24,250 It felt like a betrayal. 51 00:01:24,283 --> 00:01:25,952 - Mother against son. 52 00:01:25,985 --> 00:01:27,687 - It makes you 53 00:01:25,985 --> 00:01:27,687 question everybody. 54 00:01:27,721 --> 00:01:29,589 - Everything's at stake. 55 00:01:29,622 --> 00:01:30,657 - Hardest thing 56 00:01:29,622 --> 00:01:30,657 you ever did? 57 00:01:30,690 --> 00:01:31,890 - That was 58 00:01:30,690 --> 00:01:31,890 the hardest thing. 59 00:01:31,925 --> 00:01:39,966 ** 60 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,103 - Hello, and welcome to 61 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,103 "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 62 00:01:43,103 --> 00:01:45,205 Bob McClancy 63 00:01:43,103 --> 00:01:45,205 was a caring husband 64 00:01:45,238 --> 00:01:47,107 and decorated war veteran. 65 00:01:47,140 --> 00:01:49,309 When he died, suddenly, 66 00:01:47,140 --> 00:01:49,309 his loved ones felt 67 00:01:49,342 --> 00:01:51,644 something was just 68 00:01:49,342 --> 00:01:51,644 not right. 69 00:01:51,678 --> 00:01:53,847 But what happened 70 00:01:51,678 --> 00:01:53,847 after his death 71 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,160 left them even more 72 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,160 suspicious. 73 00:01:56,116 --> 00:01:59,219 Before long, investigators 74 00:01:56,116 --> 00:01:59,219 were asking questions. 75 00:01:59,252 --> 00:02:01,921 The answers would tear 76 00:01:59,252 --> 00:02:01,921 a family apart 77 00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:04,457 and reveal a secret 78 00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:04,457 so sinister, 79 00:02:04,491 --> 00:02:06,590 it was hard to believe. 80 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:07,600 Here's Keith Morrison 81 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,529 with "Secrets 82 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,529 in the Smoky Mountains". 83 00:02:09,562 --> 00:02:17,871 ** 84 00:02:17,904 --> 00:02:20,774 - It seems alive, somehow, 85 00:02:17,904 --> 00:02:20,774 here in the foothills 86 00:02:20,807 --> 00:02:22,776 of Tennessee's 87 00:02:20,807 --> 00:02:22,776 Appalachians. 88 00:02:22,809 --> 00:02:28,148 ** 89 00:02:28,181 --> 00:02:30,884 The creeping tendrils 90 00:02:28,181 --> 00:02:30,884 of mountain mist 91 00:02:30,917 --> 00:02:37,791 that snake and swirl, 92 00:02:30,917 --> 00:02:37,791 like lies. 93 00:02:37,824 --> 00:02:39,626 There's gold in there 94 00:02:37,824 --> 00:02:39,626 somewhere, 95 00:02:39,659 --> 00:02:41,227 so they say. 96 00:02:41,261 --> 00:02:44,631 The sort of place where 97 00:02:41,261 --> 00:02:44,631 you could strike it rich... 98 00:02:44,664 --> 00:02:47,100 or maybe 99 00:02:44,664 --> 00:02:47,100 get away with murder. 100 00:02:48,835 --> 00:02:50,303 - Very scary. 101 00:02:50,337 --> 00:02:54,374 - Shocking 102 00:02:50,337 --> 00:02:54,374 and devastating. 103 00:02:54,406 --> 00:02:57,110 - So, after that 104 00:02:54,406 --> 00:02:57,110 mysterious death here, 105 00:02:57,110 --> 00:02:59,179 who could anyone trust? 106 00:02:59,212 --> 00:03:00,580 Dearest friends? 107 00:03:00,613 --> 00:03:02,480 - The word betrayal 108 00:03:00,613 --> 00:03:02,480 come to mind? 109 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:03,450 - Oh, absolutely. 110 00:03:03,483 --> 00:03:04,951 - Brothers in arms? 111 00:03:05,510 --> 00:03:07,530 - It's beyond disturbing. 112 00:03:07,530 --> 00:03:08,421 - Closest family? 113 00:03:08,455 --> 00:03:13,930 - She looked at me as if 114 00:03:08,455 --> 00:03:13,930 she wished I was dead. 115 00:03:14,561 --> 00:03:16,463 - Maybe no one. 116 00:03:16,496 --> 00:03:18,465 - We were always looking 117 00:03:16,496 --> 00:03:18,465 over our shoulder. 118 00:03:19,799 --> 00:03:24,437 - Might still be 119 00:03:19,799 --> 00:03:24,437 had it not been for him. 120 00:03:24,471 --> 00:03:25,538 - Pretty shocking stuff. 121 00:03:25,572 --> 00:03:27,730 - I don't think I'll work 122 00:03:25,572 --> 00:03:27,730 anything like this again 123 00:03:27,107 --> 00:03:28,174 in my career, 124 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,911 just because of the different 125 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:31,911 twists and turns. 126 00:03:31,945 --> 00:03:36,116 - Yes, in that toxic swamp 127 00:03:31,945 --> 00:03:36,116 of secret identities, 128 00:03:36,149 --> 00:03:38,118 of heroes and villains 129 00:03:38,151 --> 00:03:41,254 driven by greed 130 00:03:38,151 --> 00:03:41,254 and lust, power. 131 00:03:41,287 --> 00:03:42,822 - Whoever set this up 132 00:03:42,856 --> 00:03:46,292 and whoever did this 133 00:03:42,856 --> 00:03:46,292 was very evil. 134 00:03:46,326 --> 00:03:48,995 - Oh, so many lies. 135 00:03:49,950 --> 00:03:52,899 - Everything that you were 136 00:03:49,950 --> 00:03:52,899 taught as a kid was a lie. 137 00:03:59,239 --> 00:04:01,274 - This place 138 00:03:59,239 --> 00:04:01,274 where the story begins 139 00:04:01,307 --> 00:04:05,779 seems created not for lies, 140 00:04:01,307 --> 00:04:05,779 but for love. 141 00:04:05,812 --> 00:04:08,480 The tranquil waters 142 00:04:05,812 --> 00:04:08,480 and soft sunsets 143 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,150 of Bradenton, Florida. 144 00:04:10,183 --> 00:04:11,751 And though the local 145 00:04:10,183 --> 00:04:11,751 sheriff's office 146 00:04:11,785 --> 00:04:14,921 may seem an unlikely place 147 00:04:11,785 --> 00:04:14,921 to find love, 148 00:04:14,954 --> 00:04:16,856 here's where it struck 149 00:04:14,954 --> 00:04:16,856 a county detective 150 00:04:16,890 --> 00:04:18,524 named Bob McClancy. 151 00:04:18,558 --> 00:04:21,161 - You got anything 152 00:04:18,558 --> 00:04:21,161 to say, Bobby? 153 00:04:21,194 --> 00:04:22,829 - I have a lot to say. 154 00:04:21,194 --> 00:04:22,829 - Yes. 155 00:04:22,862 --> 00:04:25,732 - How many hours do we have 156 00:04:22,862 --> 00:04:25,732 left on the tape? 157 00:04:25,765 --> 00:04:27,670 - A funny man... 158 00:04:27,670 --> 00:04:29,436 - Welcome to 159 00:04:27,670 --> 00:04:29,436 Pasquale's kitchen. 160 00:04:29,469 --> 00:04:32,720 - ...and very kind, 161 00:04:29,469 --> 00:04:32,720 said his nieces. 162 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:33,940 Not just to people. 163 00:04:33,973 --> 00:04:35,742 - We'd be so excited 164 00:04:33,973 --> 00:04:35,742 to go over there to see, 165 00:04:35,775 --> 00:04:38,780 like, what new animal he got 166 00:04:35,775 --> 00:04:38,780 or, you know, like, 167 00:04:38,111 --> 00:04:39,779 he would be like, 168 00:04:38,111 --> 00:04:39,779 "Oh, I got a new bird. 169 00:04:39,813 --> 00:04:41,810 "Come over and see it." 170 00:04:41,810 --> 00:04:42,215 - Give me a kiss. 171 00:04:42,248 --> 00:04:45,850 - He had got us, um, 172 00:04:42,248 --> 00:04:45,850 little turtles 173 00:04:45,850 --> 00:04:46,453 as, um, kids. 174 00:04:46,486 --> 00:04:47,954 - He was a real animal guy, 175 00:04:46,486 --> 00:04:47,954 wasn't he? 176 00:04:47,987 --> 00:04:49,522 - He was. Yes. 177 00:04:47,987 --> 00:04:49,522 - Loved animals. 178 00:04:49,556 --> 00:04:51,358 - Say hi, Kristen. 179 00:04:49,556 --> 00:04:51,358 - Hi. 180 00:04:51,391 --> 00:04:54,227 - Loved his nieces, too. 181 00:04:54,260 --> 00:04:56,960 - He used to take us out 182 00:04:54,260 --> 00:04:56,960 on the boat. 183 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:57,731 He just always 184 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:57,731 took care of us. 185 00:04:57,764 --> 00:05:00,330 - Just like he took care 186 00:04:57,764 --> 00:05:00,330 of his sister, Kathy, 187 00:05:00,330 --> 00:05:01,434 when they were kids. 188 00:05:01,468 --> 00:05:03,470 - It was always, like, 189 00:05:01,468 --> 00:05:03,470 the two of us doing everything, 190 00:05:03,503 --> 00:05:06,706 you know. 191 00:05:03,503 --> 00:05:06,706 - Causing havoc? 192 00:05:06,740 --> 00:05:09,509 - As a sheriff's deputy, 193 00:05:06,740 --> 00:05:09,509 said his sister, Kathy, 194 00:05:09,542 --> 00:05:12,879 he once faced down 195 00:05:09,542 --> 00:05:12,879 a violent gang. 196 00:05:12,912 --> 00:05:14,381 - They had knocked him 197 00:05:12,912 --> 00:05:14,381 to the ground 198 00:05:14,414 --> 00:05:15,949 and took his gun 199 00:05:14,414 --> 00:05:15,949 and everything 200 00:05:16,490 --> 00:05:16,850 and beat him up. 201 00:05:16,883 --> 00:05:18,418 As a matter of fact, 202 00:05:16,883 --> 00:05:18,418 I believe 203 00:05:18,451 --> 00:05:21,221 that they fired a shot, 204 00:05:18,451 --> 00:05:21,221 but it missed. 205 00:05:21,254 --> 00:05:22,655 - So he barely made it 206 00:05:21,254 --> 00:05:22,655 through that one? 207 00:05:22,689 --> 00:05:24,557 - Yeah. 208 00:05:24,591 --> 00:05:26,693 - His marriage 209 00:05:24,591 --> 00:05:26,693 couldn't take it. 210 00:05:26,726 --> 00:05:29,662 And Bob McClancy 211 00:05:26,726 --> 00:05:29,662 sought love elsewhere. 212 00:05:29,696 --> 00:05:32,298 And then, a southern belle 213 00:05:29,696 --> 00:05:32,298 at the sheriff's department, 214 00:05:32,332 --> 00:05:35,602 an aloof secretary 215 00:05:32,332 --> 00:05:35,602 known as the office whiz, 216 00:05:35,635 --> 00:05:38,805 caught his eye. 217 00:05:35,635 --> 00:05:38,805 Her name was Martha Ann. 218 00:05:38,838 --> 00:05:40,407 - Was he crazy 219 00:05:38,838 --> 00:05:40,407 about Martha Ann? 220 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,509 - Yes, he was. Yeah. 221 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,509 - He was really smitten? 222 00:05:42,542 --> 00:05:43,943 How close were 223 00:05:42,542 --> 00:05:43,943 the two of them? 224 00:05:43,977 --> 00:05:45,912 Could you tell that? 225 00:05:43,977 --> 00:05:45,912 - Very. 226 00:05:45,945 --> 00:05:48,948 - They seemed very close. 227 00:05:45,945 --> 00:05:48,948 - Very much in love. 228 00:05:48,982 --> 00:05:51,251 - Martha Ann had two sons. 229 00:05:51,284 --> 00:05:53,253 - I always respected 230 00:05:51,284 --> 00:05:53,253 my mom. 231 00:05:53,286 --> 00:05:59,920 - She, um, was very charming, 232 00:05:53,286 --> 00:05:59,920 highly intelligent. 233 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:01,161 - Sean was adopted as a baby, 234 00:06:01,194 --> 00:06:04,431 met Jen as a teenager, 235 00:06:01,194 --> 00:06:04,431 and she became his wife. 236 00:06:04,464 --> 00:06:08,340 Where Sean was from 237 00:06:04,464 --> 00:06:08,340 was not discussed at home. 238 00:06:08,340 --> 00:06:12,138 But then, he had Martha Ann, 239 00:06:08,340 --> 00:06:12,138 the only mother he'd ever known. 240 00:06:12,172 --> 00:06:15,175 - A mother is the-the sun 241 00:06:12,172 --> 00:06:15,175 and the moon and the stars 242 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:18,611 to a little kid. 243 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:18,611 Did it feel like she was? 244 00:06:18,645 --> 00:06:20,880 - I was always told 245 00:06:18,645 --> 00:06:20,880 since a young age 246 00:06:20,914 --> 00:06:25,418 that the only people 247 00:06:20,914 --> 00:06:25,418 you can trust completely 248 00:06:25,452 --> 00:06:26,853 are your parents. 249 00:06:26,886 --> 00:06:29,122 - In the mid-90s, 250 00:06:26,886 --> 00:06:29,122 Sean's mom, Martha Ann, 251 00:06:29,155 --> 00:06:31,558 was going through 252 00:06:29,155 --> 00:06:31,558 a painful divorce 253 00:06:31,591 --> 00:06:34,761 and then fell for 254 00:06:31,591 --> 00:06:34,761 the detective, Bob. 255 00:06:35,929 --> 00:06:37,630 - Bob was 256 00:06:35,929 --> 00:06:37,630 very down to earth, 257 00:06:37,664 --> 00:06:40,767 and he taught me 258 00:06:37,664 --> 00:06:40,767 a lot of things. 259 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,403 - Like what? 260 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,403 - How to be a man. 261 00:06:43,436 --> 00:06:44,804 How to be a real person. 262 00:06:44,838 --> 00:06:48,975 - Sounds like you liked Bob. 263 00:06:44,838 --> 00:06:48,975 - I liked Bob a lot. 264 00:06:49,750 --> 00:06:52,712 - In 1995, Bob and Martha Ann 265 00:06:49,750 --> 00:06:52,712 got married. 266 00:06:52,746 --> 00:06:54,881 And on holidays, 267 00:06:52,746 --> 00:06:54,881 Bob's sister, Cathy 268 00:06:54,914 --> 00:06:56,950 got closer to Martha Ann. 269 00:06:56,983 --> 00:06:57,984 - We'd go out shopping. 270 00:06:58,840 --> 00:06:59,586 That was our big 271 00:06:58,840 --> 00:06:59,586 Thanksgiving. 272 00:06:59,619 --> 00:07:00,887 You know, 273 00:06:59,619 --> 00:07:00,887 Bobby would stay home 274 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,291 and the girls would just 275 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,291 take off and go shopping. 276 00:07:05,325 --> 00:07:07,894 - Bob and Martha Ann 277 00:07:05,325 --> 00:07:07,894 retired in the late '90s, 278 00:07:07,927 --> 00:07:12,265 left Florida, and bought 279 00:07:07,927 --> 00:07:12,265 a big secluded hillside cabin 280 00:07:12,298 --> 00:07:14,868 in Coker Creek, 281 00:07:12,298 --> 00:07:14,868 Eastern Tennessee, 282 00:07:14,901 --> 00:07:17,370 in the shadow 283 00:07:14,901 --> 00:07:17,370 of the Smoky Mountains, 284 00:07:17,404 --> 00:07:22,420 not far from where 285 00:07:17,404 --> 00:07:22,420 Martha Ann grew up. 286 00:07:22,420 --> 00:07:24,711 By then, Sean and Jen 287 00:07:22,420 --> 00:07:24,711 had their own family 288 00:07:24,744 --> 00:07:26,880 and visited 289 00:07:24,744 --> 00:07:26,880 from time to time. 290 00:07:26,913 --> 00:07:28,782 - Bob especially would-- 291 00:07:26,913 --> 00:07:28,782 - Oh, yeah. 292 00:07:28,815 --> 00:07:30,483 - ...treat our kids great. 293 00:07:28,815 --> 00:07:30,483 - He was fond of them? 294 00:07:30,517 --> 00:07:33,787 - He was the real deal. 295 00:07:33,820 --> 00:07:35,555 - Martha Ann 296 00:07:33,820 --> 00:07:35,555 went back to work. 297 00:07:35,588 --> 00:07:38,124 A county job, 298 00:07:35,588 --> 00:07:38,124 she loved numbers. 299 00:07:38,158 --> 00:07:40,930 And they made time 300 00:07:38,158 --> 00:07:40,930 for friends, too, 301 00:07:40,126 --> 00:07:42,662 like Debbie Hartman. 302 00:07:42,696 --> 00:07:45,865 - We met at church, 303 00:07:42,696 --> 00:07:45,865 Bob and Martha Ann 304 00:07:45,899 --> 00:07:48,668 just became 305 00:07:45,899 --> 00:07:48,668 very dear friends. 306 00:07:48,702 --> 00:07:52,772 - In Martha Ann, 307 00:07:48,702 --> 00:07:52,772 Debbie found her soulmate. 308 00:07:52,806 --> 00:07:54,474 - She was what 309 00:07:52,806 --> 00:07:54,474 I would refer to as 310 00:07:54,507 --> 00:07:56,976 the quintessential 311 00:07:54,507 --> 00:07:56,976 southern lady. 312 00:07:57,770 --> 00:07:58,812 She was like 313 00:07:57,770 --> 00:07:58,812 a sister to me. 314 00:07:58,845 --> 00:08:01,414 We had the same type 315 00:07:58,845 --> 00:08:01,414 of-of upbringing, 316 00:08:01,448 --> 00:08:04,684 the same type of morals. 317 00:08:01,448 --> 00:08:04,684 We had fun together. 318 00:08:04,718 --> 00:08:07,520 We enjoyed, um, 319 00:08:04,718 --> 00:08:07,520 sharing recipes together. 320 00:08:07,554 --> 00:08:10,230 We just were 321 00:08:07,554 --> 00:08:10,230 very, very close. 322 00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:12,392 - Over the years, 323 00:08:10,230 --> 00:08:12,392 they shared cookouts, 324 00:08:12,425 --> 00:08:15,195 road trips, church events. 325 00:08:15,228 --> 00:08:18,565 - Just like two peas 326 00:08:15,228 --> 00:08:18,565 from the same pod. 327 00:08:18,598 --> 00:08:20,767 - And you could just see, 328 00:08:18,598 --> 00:08:20,767 said Debbie, 329 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,337 how much Bob and Martha Ann 330 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,337 loved each other. 331 00:08:24,371 --> 00:08:26,840 - Never once 332 00:08:24,371 --> 00:08:26,840 did I hear them argue 333 00:08:26,873 --> 00:08:29,476 or have a sour word 334 00:08:26,873 --> 00:08:29,476 against one another. 335 00:08:29,509 --> 00:08:35,480 Never. Just very loving. 336 00:08:29,509 --> 00:08:35,480 The perfect couple. 337 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,184 - And then, May 2006, 338 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,184 when Martha Ann was at work, 339 00:08:39,219 --> 00:08:42,856 a family friend stopped by 340 00:08:39,219 --> 00:08:42,856 to see Bob at home. 341 00:08:42,889 --> 00:08:47,394 And in front of him, 342 00:08:42,889 --> 00:08:47,394 well, he called 911. 343 00:08:54,467 --> 00:08:56,536 - Martha Ann got home, 344 00:08:56,569 --> 00:08:58,972 then called for 345 00:08:56,569 --> 00:08:58,972 her friend, Debbie. 346 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,475 - And she's screaming 347 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,475 and she's like, "Bob's dead!" 348 00:09:02,509 --> 00:09:04,411 And I'm like, "Bob's dead? 349 00:09:05,812 --> 00:09:09,649 - Coming up, what had happened 350 00:09:05,812 --> 00:09:09,649 to Bob McClancy? 351 00:09:09,683 --> 00:09:11,818 - And next thing you know, 352 00:09:09,683 --> 00:09:11,818 the sheriff comes out 353 00:09:11,851 --> 00:09:14,870 and I'm like, 354 00:09:11,851 --> 00:09:14,870 "What in the world's going on?" 355 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,557 And she's like, 356 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,557 "I don't know". 357 00:09:23,196 --> 00:09:28,301 ** 358 00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:30,904 - It was 359 00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:30,904 the 15th of May 2006, 360 00:09:30,937 --> 00:09:34,607 in Coker Creek, 361 00:09:30,937 --> 00:09:34,607 Eastern Tennessee, 5PM. 362 00:09:47,387 --> 00:09:49,656 Bob McClancy, 363 00:09:47,387 --> 00:09:49,656 56 years old, 364 00:09:49,689 --> 00:09:52,225 was lying in 365 00:09:49,689 --> 00:09:52,225 his favorite recliner. 366 00:09:52,258 --> 00:09:56,162 The caller, a family friend, 367 00:09:52,258 --> 00:09:56,162 said the body was already cold. 368 00:09:59,650 --> 00:10:02,435 The friend hung up and 369 00:09:59,650 --> 00:10:02,435 waited for first responders. 370 00:10:02,469 --> 00:10:03,570 - I was a detective. 371 00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:06,473 I'd been a detective 372 00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:06,473 for almost a year. 373 00:10:06,506 --> 00:10:08,208 - Travis Jones, 374 00:10:06,506 --> 00:10:08,208 then a detective 375 00:10:08,241 --> 00:10:10,276 with the Monroe County 376 00:10:08,241 --> 00:10:10,276 Sheriff's Department, 377 00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:12,379 was one of the first 378 00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:12,379 to go into the house. 379 00:10:12,412 --> 00:10:13,880 - What'd you see 380 00:10:12,412 --> 00:10:13,880 when you got there? 381 00:10:13,913 --> 00:10:18,351 - I found, um, Robert McClancy, 382 00:10:13,913 --> 00:10:18,351 uh, in a recliner. 383 00:10:18,385 --> 00:10:21,988 He had a pistol in one hand, 384 00:10:18,385 --> 00:10:21,988 an empty bottle of pills 385 00:10:22,220 --> 00:10:23,289 in the other hand. 386 00:10:23,323 --> 00:10:24,724 - Have you ever seen 387 00:10:23,323 --> 00:10:24,724 such a thing before? 388 00:10:24,758 --> 00:10:25,992 - No. 389 00:10:26,260 --> 00:10:29,662 - The gun hadn't been fired, 390 00:10:26,260 --> 00:10:29,662 but there were pills strewn 391 00:10:29,696 --> 00:10:31,631 all over 392 00:10:29,696 --> 00:10:31,631 Bob McClancy's body. 393 00:10:31,664 --> 00:10:35,802 A white foam around his mouth 394 00:10:31,664 --> 00:10:35,802 pointed to an overdose. 395 00:10:35,835 --> 00:10:39,239 And a do not resuscitate order 396 00:10:35,835 --> 00:10:39,239 signed by Bob McClancy 397 00:10:39,272 --> 00:10:42,742 and left in the kitchen, 398 00:10:39,272 --> 00:10:42,742 said he wanted to die. 399 00:10:42,776 --> 00:10:45,812 - Did you see this, uh, 400 00:10:42,776 --> 00:10:45,812 do not resuscitate order? 401 00:10:45,845 --> 00:10:49,149 - I did. 402 00:10:45,845 --> 00:10:49,149 - It looked like suicide. 403 00:10:49,182 --> 00:10:51,918 And Martha Ann had to 404 00:10:49,182 --> 00:10:51,918 spread the dreadful news 405 00:10:51,951 --> 00:10:55,155 to Bob's sister 406 00:10:51,951 --> 00:10:55,155 and nieces in Florida. 407 00:10:55,188 --> 00:10:56,956 When you got the call, 408 00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:59,559 and what does it-- what 409 00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:59,559 does it do to ya to hear that 410 00:10:59,592 --> 00:11:01,361 about somebody you're 411 00:10:59,592 --> 00:11:01,361 so close to? 412 00:11:01,394 --> 00:11:03,730 - We were just, like, 413 00:11:01,394 --> 00:11:03,730 in disbelief. 414 00:11:03,763 --> 00:11:06,660 - It's like a nightmare. 415 00:11:03,763 --> 00:11:06,660 - Yeah. 416 00:11:06,990 --> 00:11:08,234 - Shocking. 417 00:11:06,990 --> 00:11:08,234 - Can't imagine? 418 00:11:08,268 --> 00:11:10,700 - When she told me 419 00:11:08,268 --> 00:11:10,700 he took an overdose 420 00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:11,304 and killed himself. 421 00:11:11,338 --> 00:11:13,406 - Do you still 422 00:11:11,338 --> 00:11:13,406 remember that moment? 423 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,708 - Yes, I do. 424 00:11:14,741 --> 00:11:17,544 You know, it affected me 425 00:11:14,741 --> 00:11:17,544 quite a while. 426 00:11:17,577 --> 00:11:19,679 - Sean, too, 427 00:11:17,577 --> 00:11:19,679 was grief stricken 428 00:11:19,713 --> 00:11:22,820 when he heard about 429 00:11:19,713 --> 00:11:22,820 his step-dad's death. 430 00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:23,416 - It must come as a shock. 431 00:11:23,450 --> 00:11:25,251 - I think I cried 432 00:11:23,450 --> 00:11:25,251 for ten hours 433 00:11:25,285 --> 00:11:29,356 driving from Florida 434 00:11:25,285 --> 00:11:29,356 to Tennessee. 435 00:11:29,389 --> 00:11:33,326 I couldn't believe we lost 436 00:11:29,389 --> 00:11:33,326 such a great man. 437 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,395 - But shocking as it was, 438 00:11:35,428 --> 00:11:37,664 to those who knew 439 00:11:35,428 --> 00:11:37,664 Bob intimately, 440 00:11:37,697 --> 00:11:40,967 it was not 441 00:11:37,697 --> 00:11:40,967 a complete surprise. Why? 442 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:46,473 Four letters: PTSD, 443 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:46,473 post-traumatic stress disorder. 444 00:11:46,506 --> 00:11:47,607 Back when the Vietnam War 445 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,709 was sinking into 446 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,709 its bloody depths, 447 00:11:49,743 --> 00:11:53,113 Bob volunteered to go 448 00:11:49,743 --> 00:11:53,113 as a Marine. 449 00:11:53,113 --> 00:11:54,881 It took its toll, 450 00:11:54,914 --> 00:11:56,583 as did life-threatening 451 00:11:54,914 --> 00:11:56,583 incidents 452 00:11:56,616 --> 00:11:58,618 during his police career. 453 00:11:58,651 --> 00:12:01,187 Bob had been 454 00:11:58,651 --> 00:12:01,187 on heavy medications 455 00:12:01,221 --> 00:12:05,392 but still suffered flashbacks, 456 00:12:01,221 --> 00:12:05,392 nightmares, depression. 457 00:12:05,425 --> 00:12:06,693 - He said to me one day, 458 00:12:06,726 --> 00:12:09,620 "I'm kind of having 459 00:12:06,726 --> 00:12:09,620 a rough time at the moment. 460 00:12:09,620 --> 00:12:10,697 "I've not been sleeping 461 00:12:09,620 --> 00:12:10,697 real well". 462 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:13,266 And he said, 463 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:13,266 "So I'll get up 464 00:12:13,299 --> 00:12:16,803 "and I'll sit in the chair 465 00:12:13,299 --> 00:12:16,803 in the hallway. 466 00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:20,674 "And what worries me is if 467 00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:20,674 I fall asleep in the chair 468 00:12:20,707 --> 00:12:23,760 "and-and maybe Martha Ann 469 00:12:20,707 --> 00:12:23,760 will get up 470 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,446 "to go to the restroom, 471 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,446 maybe I'll-I'll attack her". 472 00:12:26,479 --> 00:12:29,516 He said, you know, "I'm having- 473 00:12:26,479 --> 00:12:29,516 I'm having issues". 474 00:12:29,549 --> 00:12:31,484 And he said, 475 00:12:29,549 --> 00:12:31,484 "It kind of worries me". 476 00:12:31,518 --> 00:12:34,421 - Martha Ann told Debbie 477 00:12:31,518 --> 00:12:34,421 she was very troubled. 478 00:12:34,454 --> 00:12:35,555 - She said, "I'm trying. 479 00:12:35,588 --> 00:12:37,157 But, you know, 480 00:12:35,588 --> 00:12:37,157 when I'm at work, 481 00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:39,125 "he'll get in his pills". 482 00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:42,929 She said, 483 00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:42,929 "Bob is abusing it". 484 00:12:42,962 --> 00:12:46,399 - Bob's sister, Kathy, 485 00:12:42,962 --> 00:12:46,399 had also seen warning signs. 486 00:12:46,433 --> 00:12:49,169 - How did you become aware 487 00:12:46,433 --> 00:12:49,169 that PTSD 488 00:12:49,202 --> 00:12:51,938 was really beginning to become 489 00:12:49,202 --> 00:12:51,938 a factor in his life 490 00:12:51,971 --> 00:12:53,273 that had to be dealt with? 491 00:12:53,306 --> 00:12:54,874 - We had been up 492 00:12:53,306 --> 00:12:54,874 for Thanksgiving 493 00:12:54,908 --> 00:12:58,345 and he had explained to me 494 00:12:54,908 --> 00:12:58,345 that right after the holidays 495 00:12:58,378 --> 00:13:01,848 that there was a program 496 00:12:58,378 --> 00:13:01,848 and he was going to enter it. 497 00:13:01,881 --> 00:13:03,850 - When that all came up 498 00:13:01,881 --> 00:13:03,850 that he was going 499 00:13:03,883 --> 00:13:06,353 into that program, 500 00:13:03,883 --> 00:13:06,353 I found it shocking, 501 00:13:06,386 --> 00:13:07,821 you know? 502 00:13:06,386 --> 00:13:07,821 - Shocking? 503 00:13:07,854 --> 00:13:09,789 - Yeah. 504 00:13:07,854 --> 00:13:09,789 I mean, he never-- 505 00:13:09,823 --> 00:13:10,957 - 'Cause he never seemed 506 00:13:09,823 --> 00:13:10,957 like that at all? 507 00:13:11,570 --> 00:13:12,258 - He never seemed like that. 508 00:13:11,570 --> 00:13:12,258 He never seemed like 509 00:13:12,292 --> 00:13:13,960 anything bothered him. 510 00:13:12,292 --> 00:13:13,960 - Just a happy, jovial guy? 511 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,620 Yeah. 512 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,620 - Mm-hmm. 513 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,198 - Bob's New Year's resolution 514 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,198 for 2006 515 00:13:18,231 --> 00:13:21,568 was to finally beat PTSD. 516 00:13:21,601 --> 00:13:23,670 And in January, 517 00:13:21,601 --> 00:13:23,670 he set off to Nashville 518 00:13:23,703 --> 00:13:27,707 for an intensive six-week 519 00:13:23,703 --> 00:13:27,707 program run by the VA. 520 00:13:27,741 --> 00:13:30,110 Soon after he got there, 521 00:13:27,741 --> 00:13:30,110 he called his sister, Kathy, 522 00:13:30,143 --> 00:13:32,178 with hope in his voice. 523 00:13:32,212 --> 00:13:34,800 He'd made a new friend, 524 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,383 his roommate 525 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,383 Charles Kaczmarczyk, 526 00:13:36,415 --> 00:13:37,684 went by Chuck. 527 00:13:37,717 --> 00:13:40,820 - He had told me that 528 00:13:37,717 --> 00:13:40,820 he finally found somebody 529 00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:43,823 to talk to that understood 530 00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:43,823 what he went through 531 00:13:43,857 --> 00:13:46,292 in Vietnam 532 00:13:43,857 --> 00:13:46,292 because Chuck was there. 533 00:13:46,326 --> 00:13:47,994 - Yeah, you kinda need 534 00:13:46,326 --> 00:13:47,994 somebody who's been through 535 00:13:48,940 --> 00:13:49,763 the same thing, I guess. 536 00:13:48,940 --> 00:13:49,763 - Yeah, right. Yeah. 537 00:13:49,796 --> 00:13:52,198 So he was-he was happy. 538 00:13:52,232 --> 00:13:55,101 - Bob's new veteran friend, 539 00:13:52,232 --> 00:13:55,101 Chuck was no average grunt. 540 00:13:55,101 --> 00:13:58,304 He was the very model 541 00:13:55,101 --> 00:13:58,304 of a war hero. 542 00:13:58,338 --> 00:14:01,508 Special Forces Airman, 543 00:13:58,338 --> 00:14:01,508 Citations for valor 544 00:14:01,541 --> 00:14:04,377 earned in the most 545 00:14:01,541 --> 00:14:04,377 daring operations. 546 00:14:04,411 --> 00:14:05,812 And such a big shot, 547 00:14:04,411 --> 00:14:05,812 he was invited 548 00:14:05,845 --> 00:14:07,881 to the presidential 549 00:14:05,845 --> 00:14:07,881 inauguration. 550 00:14:07,914 --> 00:14:09,416 - I do solemnly swear. 551 00:14:09,449 --> 00:14:13,319 - Chuck was a sort of tonic 552 00:14:09,449 --> 00:14:13,319 Bob seemed to need. 553 00:14:13,353 --> 00:14:14,454 - This relationship continued 554 00:14:14,487 --> 00:14:16,256 after the program 555 00:14:14,487 --> 00:14:16,256 was over, right? 556 00:14:16,289 --> 00:14:18,458 - Yes. 557 00:14:18,491 --> 00:14:20,326 - After they got out of 558 00:14:18,491 --> 00:14:20,326 the program in February, 559 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,896 Bob spent most of his time 560 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,896 with Chuck. 561 00:14:22,929 --> 00:14:25,265 He lived not far away 562 00:14:22,929 --> 00:14:25,265 in Knoxville. 563 00:14:25,298 --> 00:14:28,468 They did handyman jobs 564 00:14:25,298 --> 00:14:28,468 at each other's homes. 565 00:14:28,501 --> 00:14:32,138 - Bob had, you know, 566 00:14:28,501 --> 00:14:32,138 kind of replaced 567 00:14:32,172 --> 00:14:33,973 everybody else with Chuck. 568 00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:38,780 You know, 569 00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:38,780 Chuck was everything. 570 00:14:38,780 --> 00:14:41,514 - But Bob's PTSD 571 00:14:38,780 --> 00:14:41,514 persisted. 572 00:14:41,548 --> 00:14:44,517 Martha Ann did what she could 573 00:14:41,548 --> 00:14:44,517 to pick up Bob's spirits, 574 00:14:44,551 --> 00:14:47,821 though that seemed to backfire 575 00:14:44,551 --> 00:14:47,821 when she got a makeover. 576 00:14:47,854 --> 00:14:50,957 - She had had her hair cut 577 00:14:47,854 --> 00:14:50,957 short and blond. 578 00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:52,392 - Big change? 579 00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:52,392 - Big change. 580 00:14:52,425 --> 00:14:55,328 And I'm like, "Oh, my God, 581 00:14:52,425 --> 00:14:55,328 you look beautiful". 582 00:14:55,362 --> 00:14:58,980 She says, "well, I'm certainly 583 00:14:55,362 --> 00:14:58,980 glad you like it", 584 00:14:58,980 --> 00:15:00,934 she said, "because 585 00:14:58,980 --> 00:15:00,934 Bob doesn't like it at all. 586 00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:03,770 He had a fit that I had-- 587 00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:03,770 that I cut my hair off." 588 00:15:03,803 --> 00:15:06,773 I said, "But then a lot of men 589 00:15:03,803 --> 00:15:06,773 like ladies with long hair. 590 00:15:06,806 --> 00:15:10,430 "So, you know, give him time. 591 00:15:06,806 --> 00:15:10,430 He'll come around." 592 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,247 - When Martha Ann was at work, 593 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,247 Chuck kept an eye on Bob. 594 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,783 - Chuck was right there. 595 00:15:16,816 --> 00:15:19,486 - But Bob was in 596 00:15:16,816 --> 00:15:19,486 a downward spiral. 597 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:20,653 Martha Ann complained 598 00:15:20,687 --> 00:15:23,857 that Bob was abusing 599 00:15:20,687 --> 00:15:23,857 his antidepressants. 600 00:15:23,890 --> 00:15:25,558 And Martha Ann and Chuck 601 00:15:23,890 --> 00:15:25,558 found themselves 602 00:15:25,592 --> 00:15:29,896 managing one painful scare 603 00:15:25,592 --> 00:15:29,896 after another. 604 00:15:29,929 --> 00:15:32,499 In one episode, they rushed Bob 605 00:15:29,929 --> 00:15:32,499 to the VA hospital 606 00:15:32,532 --> 00:15:36,690 more than three hours away, 607 00:15:32,532 --> 00:15:36,690 passed out in the car. 608 00:15:36,690 --> 00:15:37,771 - Out of it. Out of it. 609 00:15:37,804 --> 00:15:39,572 I understand they had 610 00:15:37,804 --> 00:15:39,572 to stop the car 611 00:15:39,606 --> 00:15:43,410 because they thought they were 612 00:15:39,606 --> 00:15:43,410 gonna have to do CPR on him. 613 00:15:43,443 --> 00:15:44,544 - Bob was stabilized, 614 00:15:44,577 --> 00:15:48,615 and after he was deemed 615 00:15:44,577 --> 00:15:48,615 well enough, sent home. 616 00:15:48,648 --> 00:15:51,284 Two days later 617 00:15:48,648 --> 00:15:51,284 on that Monday in May, 618 00:15:51,317 --> 00:15:54,521 Martha Ann got up early 619 00:15:51,317 --> 00:15:54,521 and went to work as usual. 620 00:15:54,554 --> 00:15:55,789 She'd arranged for Chuck 621 00:15:55,822 --> 00:15:58,358 to check in on Bob 622 00:15:55,822 --> 00:15:58,358 that afternoon. 623 00:15:58,391 --> 00:16:02,529 It was he who found Bob, 624 00:15:58,391 --> 00:16:02,529 called 911. 625 00:16:02,562 --> 00:16:04,864 Debbie arrived later 626 00:16:02,562 --> 00:16:04,864 to find police cars 627 00:16:04,898 --> 00:16:08,535 and ambulances 628 00:16:04,898 --> 00:16:08,535 and a frantic Martha Ann. 629 00:16:08,568 --> 00:16:10,704 - And so, the two of us 630 00:16:08,568 --> 00:16:10,704 just sat there 631 00:16:10,737 --> 00:16:13,239 and just hugged 632 00:16:10,737 --> 00:16:13,239 each other and bawled 633 00:16:13,273 --> 00:16:20,213 and, you know, 634 00:16:13,273 --> 00:16:20,213 just cried our eyes out. 635 00:16:20,246 --> 00:16:23,183 Oh, it was horrible. 636 00:16:23,216 --> 00:16:25,452 Bob was dead. 637 00:16:25,485 --> 00:16:28,540 And the next thing you know, 638 00:16:25,485 --> 00:16:28,540 the sheriff comes out 639 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,758 with Chuck, um, 640 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,758 in a T-shirt. 641 00:16:31,791 --> 00:16:34,600 And I'm like, 642 00:16:31,791 --> 00:16:34,600 what in the world's going on? 643 00:16:34,940 --> 00:16:36,963 And she's like, 644 00:16:34,940 --> 00:16:36,963 "I don't know". 645 00:16:37,630 --> 00:16:42,302 So they drove off 646 00:16:37,630 --> 00:16:42,302 with Chuck. 647 00:16:42,335 --> 00:16:44,700 - Investigators 648 00:16:42,335 --> 00:16:44,700 have some questions 649 00:16:44,104 --> 00:16:46,539 for Bob McClancy's 650 00:16:44,104 --> 00:16:46,539 new best friend. 651 00:16:46,573 --> 00:16:49,242 Was the veteran's death 652 00:16:46,573 --> 00:16:49,242 a suicide 653 00:16:49,275 --> 00:16:50,910 or something more sinister? 654 00:16:50,944 --> 00:16:52,779 Coming up... 655 00:16:52,812 --> 00:16:55,810 - To come in 656 00:16:52,812 --> 00:16:55,810 and find your friend dead... 657 00:16:55,115 --> 00:16:56,915 - He wasn't kind of 658 00:16:55,115 --> 00:16:56,915 rushing around and all upset? 659 00:16:56,950 --> 00:17:00,200 - No, he was calm, 660 00:16:56,950 --> 00:17:00,200 which was kind of suspicious. 661 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,154 - Maybe you've got 662 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,154 a crime here? 663 00:17:01,187 --> 00:17:02,756 - Yes. 664 00:17:08,194 --> 00:17:13,900 ** 665 00:17:14,401 --> 00:17:16,403 - Martha Ann was a mess. 666 00:17:16,435 --> 00:17:18,771 Her husband, Bob, 667 00:17:16,435 --> 00:17:18,771 dead of an overdose 668 00:17:18,805 --> 00:17:21,410 of PTSD medications, 669 00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:25,780 and she couldn't even 670 00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:25,780 get back into her own house. 671 00:17:25,111 --> 00:17:28,515 So her best friend, Debbie, 672 00:17:25,111 --> 00:17:28,515 and her husband took her in. 673 00:17:28,548 --> 00:17:31,151 - And, you know, 674 00:17:28,548 --> 00:17:31,151 the three of us just, 675 00:17:31,184 --> 00:17:33,853 you know, "Why?" 676 00:17:31,184 --> 00:17:33,853 What happened?" 677 00:17:33,887 --> 00:17:36,222 You know, crying, 678 00:17:33,887 --> 00:17:36,222 you know, all night long, 679 00:17:36,256 --> 00:17:41,695 just sobbing and in disbelief 680 00:17:36,256 --> 00:17:41,695 that-that Bob was gone. 681 00:17:41,728 --> 00:17:46,660 - To be there for my Mom, 682 00:17:41,728 --> 00:17:46,660 I left immediately 683 00:17:46,660 --> 00:17:48,368 and drove through 684 00:17:46,660 --> 00:17:48,368 the night. 685 00:17:48,401 --> 00:17:51,805 - And Sean was filled 686 00:17:48,401 --> 00:17:51,805 with a flood of sorrow 687 00:17:51,838 --> 00:17:55,542 and guilt that he hadn't been 688 00:17:51,838 --> 00:17:55,542 there for his step-dad, Bob, 689 00:17:55,575 --> 00:17:58,111 as Bob had been there 690 00:17:55,575 --> 00:17:58,111 for him. 691 00:17:58,144 --> 00:18:00,680 - Bob took care of me 692 00:17:58,144 --> 00:18:00,680 every day. 693 00:18:00,714 --> 00:18:02,449 - That'll make you feel close 694 00:18:00,714 --> 00:18:02,449 to a person. 695 00:18:02,482 --> 00:18:05,180 - It did. 696 00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:09,356 - Debbie tried in vain 697 00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:09,356 to ease Martha Ann's grief. 698 00:18:09,389 --> 00:18:11,358 - I would bring up, 699 00:18:09,389 --> 00:18:11,358 you know, 700 00:18:11,391 --> 00:18:13,126 fun things that we had done 701 00:18:11,391 --> 00:18:13,126 with Bob. 702 00:18:13,159 --> 00:18:14,327 - You'd have a cry 703 00:18:13,159 --> 00:18:14,327 about it? 704 00:18:14,361 --> 00:18:16,129 - It it would be, like, 705 00:18:14,361 --> 00:18:16,129 and now we're not gonna 706 00:18:16,162 --> 00:18:17,330 have that anymore. 707 00:18:17,364 --> 00:18:19,320 You know, 708 00:18:17,364 --> 00:18:19,320 and then I'd start bawling, 709 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:19,766 and of course, 710 00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:22,135 then she'd start 711 00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:22,135 bawling with me. 712 00:18:22,168 --> 00:18:25,839 - And to make it even worse, 713 00:18:22,168 --> 00:18:25,839 Bob's best friend, Chuck, 714 00:18:25,872 --> 00:18:29,309 had been taken away 715 00:18:25,872 --> 00:18:29,309 by sheriff's deputies. 716 00:18:29,342 --> 00:18:32,212 And so Debbie watched 717 00:18:29,342 --> 00:18:32,212 as Martha Ann tried to cope 718 00:18:32,245 --> 00:18:33,813 with her own sorrow 719 00:18:33,847 --> 00:18:36,490 as she planned 720 00:18:33,847 --> 00:18:36,490 her husband's funeral. 721 00:18:36,820 --> 00:18:38,685 Anxious at the same time 722 00:18:36,820 --> 00:18:38,685 for her friend 723 00:18:38,718 --> 00:18:43,890 that those small town cops 724 00:18:38,718 --> 00:18:43,890 had the wrong idea about Chuck. 725 00:18:43,123 --> 00:18:47,327 - And I thought, you know, okay, 726 00:18:43,123 --> 00:18:47,327 this was Bob's best buddy now. 727 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:49,262 You know, 728 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:49,262 you're grieving for Bob, 729 00:18:49,295 --> 00:18:51,498 and, you-- now you've gotta 730 00:18:49,295 --> 00:18:51,498 take care of Chuck. 731 00:18:51,531 --> 00:18:52,599 - A tough situation 732 00:18:51,531 --> 00:18:52,599 for her to be in. 733 00:18:52,632 --> 00:18:54,670 - A tough situation. 734 00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:56,536 - Which was about to get 735 00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:56,536 tougher courtesy 736 00:18:56,569 --> 00:18:59,639 of that small town 737 00:18:56,569 --> 00:18:59,639 sheriff's deputy, Travis Jones. 738 00:18:59,673 --> 00:19:02,142 Something strange here, 739 00:18:59,673 --> 00:19:02,142 he thought. 740 00:19:02,175 --> 00:19:04,110 He and the other detectives. 741 00:19:04,144 --> 00:19:06,746 So they held Chuck 742 00:19:04,144 --> 00:19:06,746 for questioning. 743 00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:09,516 For one thing, 744 00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:09,516 why was he so cool? 745 00:19:09,549 --> 00:19:12,419 His best buddy 746 00:19:09,549 --> 00:19:12,419 was lying there dead. 747 00:19:12,452 --> 00:19:13,520 He wasn't kind of 748 00:19:12,452 --> 00:19:13,520 rushing around 749 00:19:13,553 --> 00:19:15,210 and all upset 750 00:19:13,553 --> 00:19:15,210 or anything like that? 751 00:19:15,210 --> 00:19:17,900 - No. 752 00:19:15,210 --> 00:19:17,900 - Calm? 753 00:19:17,123 --> 00:19:18,758 - He was calm, uh, 754 00:19:18,792 --> 00:19:21,861 which was kind of suspicious 755 00:19:18,792 --> 00:19:21,861 in itself 756 00:19:21,895 --> 00:19:24,970 to come in and 757 00:19:21,895 --> 00:19:24,970 find your friend dead 758 00:19:24,130 --> 00:19:26,320 and he was calm. 759 00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:29,869 - As he had been calm and 760 00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:29,869 kind of strange on the 911 call. 761 00:19:33,740 --> 00:19:37,177 - The operator suggested 762 00:19:33,740 --> 00:19:37,177 Chuck might try to revive Bob. 763 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,155 - Chuck didn't seem to want to 764 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,155 save his own best friend. 765 00:19:49,189 --> 00:19:52,659 And to the detective, 766 00:19:49,189 --> 00:19:52,659 that do not resuscitate order 767 00:19:52,692 --> 00:19:55,195 seemed maybe just 768 00:19:52,692 --> 00:19:55,195 a little too convenient. 769 00:19:55,228 --> 00:19:57,364 - Maybe you got a crime here? 770 00:19:55,228 --> 00:19:57,364 - Yes. 771 00:19:57,397 --> 00:20:00,660 - Travis Jones wasn't alone. 772 00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:02,802 Bob's sister, Kathy, 773 00:20:00,660 --> 00:20:02,802 had her doubts, too. 774 00:20:02,836 --> 00:20:05,638 Kathy knew Bob 775 00:20:02,836 --> 00:20:05,638 suffered from PTSD 776 00:20:05,672 --> 00:20:08,575 and took medication, 777 00:20:05,672 --> 00:20:08,575 but she refused to believe 778 00:20:08,608 --> 00:20:10,443 her brother would 779 00:20:08,608 --> 00:20:10,443 kill himself. 780 00:20:10,477 --> 00:20:12,445 - I mean, he could have part of 781 00:20:10,477 --> 00:20:12,445 his finger hanging off, 782 00:20:12,479 --> 00:20:15,548 he would duct tape it up 783 00:20:12,479 --> 00:20:15,548 and keep going, you know? 784 00:20:15,582 --> 00:20:19,486 - Yeah, that's the kind of guy 785 00:20:15,582 --> 00:20:19,486 you talked to, you two? 786 00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:20,854 - Yeah. 787 00:20:20,887 --> 00:20:23,890 - So a pill popping brother 788 00:20:20,887 --> 00:20:23,890 didn't make any sense to you? 789 00:20:23,923 --> 00:20:25,825 - No, did not. 790 00:20:23,923 --> 00:20:25,825 No. No. 791 00:20:25,859 --> 00:20:28,940 - Suspicions deepened 792 00:20:25,859 --> 00:20:28,940 a week later, 793 00:20:28,128 --> 00:20:29,562 when they traveled to 794 00:20:28,128 --> 00:20:29,562 Bob's funeral 795 00:20:29,596 --> 00:20:31,398 in Eastern Tennessee. 796 00:20:31,431 --> 00:20:33,633 Deep in their grief, 797 00:20:31,431 --> 00:20:33,633 they met the friend 798 00:20:33,667 --> 00:20:36,102 who'd reported Bob's death 799 00:20:33,667 --> 00:20:36,102 to the police 800 00:20:36,136 --> 00:20:38,338 and who was back 801 00:20:36,136 --> 00:20:38,338 in the community 802 00:20:38,371 --> 00:20:40,807 as police continued to 803 00:20:38,371 --> 00:20:40,807 look into him. 804 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,109 His name was Chuck Kaczmarczyk. 805 00:20:43,143 --> 00:20:44,744 - How would you 806 00:20:43,143 --> 00:20:44,744 describe the guy? 807 00:20:44,778 --> 00:20:46,546 - He was very creepy. 808 00:20:46,579 --> 00:20:47,881 There was just 809 00:20:46,579 --> 00:20:47,881 something about him. 810 00:20:47,914 --> 00:20:51,584 Like, when he looked at you, 811 00:20:47,914 --> 00:20:51,584 it was almost like 812 00:20:51,618 --> 00:20:53,820 he could just stare 813 00:20:51,618 --> 00:20:53,820 through you. 814 00:20:53,853 --> 00:20:55,822 - Sean and Jen saw the same. 815 00:20:55,855 --> 00:21:00,393 - He seemed like 816 00:20:55,855 --> 00:21:00,393 a-a tough military guy. 817 00:21:00,427 --> 00:21:01,861 - There was a look about him. 818 00:21:01,895 --> 00:21:04,631 - The cold stare. 819 00:21:01,895 --> 00:21:04,631 - Yeah. 820 00:21:04,664 --> 00:21:07,901 - Then Kathy got a copy 821 00:21:04,664 --> 00:21:07,901 of the 911 call, 822 00:21:07,934 --> 00:21:10,700 and what she heard 823 00:21:07,934 --> 00:21:10,700 sounded like 824 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:14,740 the verbal equivalent 825 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:14,740 of a thousand yard stare. 826 00:21:17,977 --> 00:21:20,800 - And it didn't make sense, 827 00:21:17,977 --> 00:21:20,800 a couple of things. 828 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,749 First, he said 829 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,749 he didn't touch the body. 830 00:21:22,782 --> 00:21:27,420 Then, he told the 911 operator 831 00:21:22,782 --> 00:21:27,420 when he asked about CPR, uh, 832 00:21:27,454 --> 00:21:28,922 he said 833 00:21:27,454 --> 00:21:28,922 he didn't need it. 834 00:21:28,955 --> 00:21:30,490 He was already gone. 835 00:21:30,523 --> 00:21:31,825 Now, if you didn't 836 00:21:30,523 --> 00:21:31,825 touch the body, 837 00:21:31,858 --> 00:21:33,226 how would you know 838 00:21:31,858 --> 00:21:33,226 he was gone? 839 00:21:33,259 --> 00:21:34,961 - How do you go on after that 840 00:21:34,994 --> 00:21:38,231 when you're full of these doubts 841 00:21:34,994 --> 00:21:38,231 and suspicions? 842 00:21:38,264 --> 00:21:39,990 - You go on. 843 00:21:39,132 --> 00:21:41,101 You don't have a choice, 844 00:21:39,132 --> 00:21:41,101 you know? 845 00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:43,636 But I knew 846 00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:43,636 I would not let it drop. 847 00:21:43,670 --> 00:21:45,338 - But in the end, 848 00:21:43,670 --> 00:21:45,338 even though Chuck 849 00:21:45,372 --> 00:21:47,307 was questioned at length, 850 00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:50,176 everything he did 851 00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:50,176 put under a microscope, 852 00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:53,880 the suspicion appeared 853 00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:53,880 to be unfounded. 854 00:21:53,913 --> 00:21:58,952 - The coroner actually 855 00:21:53,913 --> 00:21:58,952 ruled it a-a suicide. 856 00:21:58,985 --> 00:22:01,488 - And then in the weeks 857 00:21:58,985 --> 00:22:01,488 and months after Bob's death, 858 00:22:01,521 --> 00:22:03,123 as suspicions dissipated 859 00:22:03,156 --> 00:22:05,592 like the mist 860 00:22:03,156 --> 00:22:05,592 in the surrounding hills, 861 00:22:05,625 --> 00:22:08,862 Chuck could once again walk with 862 00:22:05,625 --> 00:22:08,862 his head held high. 863 00:22:08,895 --> 00:22:11,798 - When we did the veterans 864 00:22:08,895 --> 00:22:11,798 parade in Knoxville, 865 00:22:11,831 --> 00:22:13,660 they put him on the top 866 00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:16,302 because he was the most 867 00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:16,302 highly decorated. 868 00:22:16,336 --> 00:22:19,139 - After the awful tragedy 869 00:22:16,336 --> 00:22:19,139 of Bob's death, 870 00:22:19,172 --> 00:22:21,740 Chuck got on 871 00:22:19,172 --> 00:22:21,740 with his life again, 872 00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:23,109 said goodbye 873 00:22:21,740 --> 00:22:23,109 to his dear friend, 874 00:22:23,143 --> 00:22:27,213 and comforted Bob's widow, 875 00:22:23,143 --> 00:22:27,213 Martha Ann. 876 00:22:27,247 --> 00:22:30,350 Oh, boy. 877 00:22:30,383 --> 00:22:31,618 - Coming up... 878 00:22:31,651 --> 00:22:36,589 - I looked at her and I said, 879 00:22:31,651 --> 00:22:36,589 "Are you and Chuck together?" 880 00:22:42,595 --> 00:22:46,990 ** 881 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:49,369 - Welcome back to 882 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:49,369 "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 883 00:22:49,402 --> 00:22:50,737 I'm Kate Snow. 884 00:22:50,770 --> 00:22:54,741 The coroner ruled Bob McClancy's 885 00:22:50,770 --> 00:22:54,741 sudden death a suicide, 886 00:22:54,774 --> 00:22:56,609 a conclusion some 887 00:22:54,774 --> 00:22:56,609 in his family 888 00:22:56,643 --> 00:22:58,244 refused to believe. 889 00:22:58,278 --> 00:23:00,947 That wasn't the only news 890 00:22:58,278 --> 00:23:00,947 they'd find hard to take. 891 00:23:01,470 --> 00:23:04,117 A stunning secret 892 00:23:01,470 --> 00:23:04,117 was about to be revealed, 893 00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:09,122 raising eyebrows and questions 894 00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:09,122 about two people close to Bob. 895 00:23:09,155 --> 00:23:10,924 Back now to Keith Morrison with 896 00:23:10,957 --> 00:23:15,610 "Secrets in 897 00:23:10,957 --> 00:23:15,610 the Smoky Mountains". 898 00:23:15,610 --> 00:23:17,931 - In the wake of Bob's death 899 00:23:15,610 --> 00:23:17,931 in May 2006, 900 00:23:17,964 --> 00:23:20,233 it was only natural, 901 00:23:17,964 --> 00:23:20,233 said Debbie, 902 00:23:20,266 --> 00:23:23,690 that Martha Ann stayed in touch 903 00:23:20,266 --> 00:23:23,690 with Chuck. 904 00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:25,372 They shared a 905 00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:25,372 tremendous loss. 906 00:23:25,405 --> 00:23:28,241 - He's lost his best friend. 907 00:23:25,405 --> 00:23:28,241 She's lost her husband. 908 00:23:28,274 --> 00:23:30,760 - They're commiserating. 909 00:23:28,274 --> 00:23:30,760 - They're commiserating. 910 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,412 You know, they're helping 911 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,412 each other through this grief. 912 00:23:32,445 --> 00:23:34,414 - And there was 913 00:23:32,445 --> 00:23:34,414 something else. 914 00:23:34,447 --> 00:23:37,350 - Chuck said that Martha Ann 915 00:23:34,447 --> 00:23:37,350 was not feeling good. 916 00:23:37,384 --> 00:23:39,486 She was having issues 917 00:23:37,384 --> 00:23:39,486 with her back. 918 00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:43,757 - So it made sense Martha Ann 919 00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:43,757 would reduce her chores at home. 920 00:23:43,790 --> 00:23:45,892 Bob, remember, loved animals, 921 00:23:45,925 --> 00:23:49,195 but the menagerie was too much 922 00:23:45,925 --> 00:23:49,195 for Martha Ann. 923 00:23:49,229 --> 00:23:52,465 So her son, Sean, 924 00:23:49,229 --> 00:23:52,465 helped her downsize. 925 00:23:52,499 --> 00:23:57,804 - Bob had an animal rescue 926 00:23:52,499 --> 00:23:57,804 that he ran out of his home. 927 00:23:57,837 --> 00:24:00,540 He had seven dogs and-- 928 00:23:57,837 --> 00:24:00,540 - Wow. 929 00:24:00,573 --> 00:24:03,877 - He had a couple cats 930 00:24:00,573 --> 00:24:03,877 and chickens and some goats 931 00:24:03,910 --> 00:24:08,548 and, uh, she started 932 00:24:03,910 --> 00:24:08,548 to get rid of all these animals 933 00:24:08,581 --> 00:24:12,520 as soon as 934 00:24:08,581 --> 00:24:12,520 he had passed away. 935 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,540 Then there were 936 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,540 other changes. 937 00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:15,355 Weeks after Bob's death, 938 00:24:15,388 --> 00:24:18,580 Martha Ann invited Debbie 939 00:24:15,388 --> 00:24:18,580 and her husband 940 00:24:18,910 --> 00:24:21,828 to celebrate Chuck's birthday; 941 00:24:18,910 --> 00:24:21,828 dinner at Chuck's place. 942 00:24:21,861 --> 00:24:26,499 - When we got there, 943 00:24:21,861 --> 00:24:26,499 Martha Ann's dining room set 944 00:24:26,533 --> 00:24:28,134 was in Chuck's dining room. 945 00:24:28,168 --> 00:24:29,669 - What did you think 946 00:24:28,168 --> 00:24:29,669 when you saw that? 947 00:24:29,703 --> 00:24:32,405 - I said, 948 00:24:29,703 --> 00:24:32,405 "Your furniture's up here". 949 00:24:32,439 --> 00:24:33,640 And she said, 950 00:24:32,439 --> 00:24:33,640 "Well, it certainly 951 00:24:33,673 --> 00:24:36,576 suits his house 952 00:24:33,673 --> 00:24:36,576 a whole lot better than mine". 953 00:24:36,609 --> 00:24:38,745 - But they're just friends? 954 00:24:36,609 --> 00:24:38,745 - They're friends. 955 00:24:38,778 --> 00:24:40,213 They're friends. 956 00:24:40,246 --> 00:24:43,516 - Still, how close 957 00:24:40,246 --> 00:24:43,516 were they getting? 958 00:24:43,550 --> 00:24:45,850 - I called her one day 959 00:24:43,550 --> 00:24:45,850 and I said, 960 00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:46,886 "Jim and I 961 00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:46,886 are gonna take a cruise". 962 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,656 - Debbie and her husband 963 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,656 had gotten an incredible deal 964 00:24:49,689 --> 00:24:52,926 from a friend on 965 00:24:49,689 --> 00:24:52,926 a week-long Caribbean cruise. 966 00:24:52,959 --> 00:24:55,362 - And, um, she said, 967 00:24:52,959 --> 00:24:55,362 "Well do you think Chuck and I 968 00:24:55,395 --> 00:24:57,964 could go on that cruise?" 969 00:24:57,997 --> 00:25:01,167 And it was like somebody 970 00:24:57,997 --> 00:25:01,167 just dropped a bomb on my head. 971 00:25:01,201 --> 00:25:02,702 - "Chuck and I"? 972 00:25:02,736 --> 00:25:05,572 - And I said, "If there's 973 00:25:02,736 --> 00:25:05,572 still spaces available, 974 00:25:05,605 --> 00:25:10,760 I'm sure she'll be glad 975 00:25:05,605 --> 00:25:10,760 to accommodate you". 976 00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:13,146 - It turned out, 977 00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:13,146 there was still space. 978 00:25:13,179 --> 00:25:17,183 And Martha Ann and Chuck 979 00:25:13,179 --> 00:25:17,183 shared a cabin. 980 00:25:17,217 --> 00:25:19,786 - And so we're on 981 00:25:17,217 --> 00:25:19,786 this cruise ship, 982 00:25:19,819 --> 00:25:21,921 and every event, you know, 983 00:25:21,955 --> 00:25:25,325 they're all dressed, 984 00:25:21,955 --> 00:25:25,325 matchy, matchy. 985 00:25:25,358 --> 00:25:28,361 - And now at mealtimes, 986 00:25:25,358 --> 00:25:28,361 when the waiter took orders, 987 00:25:28,395 --> 00:25:30,897 Chuck spoke for Martha Ann. 988 00:25:30,930 --> 00:25:35,680 - Chuck would speak up and say, 989 00:25:30,930 --> 00:25:35,680 "The lady will have..." 990 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:36,836 and then he would 991 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:36,836 order for her. 992 00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:40,730 - When guests around the table 993 00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:40,730 rolled their eyes, 994 00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:43,143 said Debbie, 995 00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:43,143 Martha Ann stiffened. 996 00:25:43,176 --> 00:25:46,446 - She said, 997 00:25:43,176 --> 00:25:46,446 "My mother taught etiquette, 998 00:25:46,479 --> 00:25:51,618 and a waiter would never have 999 00:25:46,479 --> 00:25:51,618 the nerve to speak to a lady". 1000 00:25:51,651 --> 00:25:52,752 - Oh, my goodness. 1001 00:25:52,786 --> 00:25:55,880 - We were just 1002 00:25:52,786 --> 00:25:55,880 all speechless. 1003 00:25:55,121 --> 00:25:58,124 We were like, hello? 1004 00:25:58,158 --> 00:26:00,727 Do you know what century 1005 00:25:58,158 --> 00:26:00,727 we're living in? 1006 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,495 You heard of women's lib? 1007 00:26:02,529 --> 00:26:04,698 We're allowed to 1008 00:26:02,529 --> 00:26:04,698 order for ourselves. 1009 00:26:04,731 --> 00:26:06,800 I was just absolutely floored 1010 00:26:06,833 --> 00:26:09,736 that she would 1011 00:26:06,833 --> 00:26:09,736 make a statement like that. 1012 00:26:09,769 --> 00:26:12,772 - Debbie, at last, 1013 00:26:09,769 --> 00:26:12,772 confronted her good friend, 1014 00:26:12,806 --> 00:26:15,508 and that's when 1015 00:26:12,806 --> 00:26:15,508 the other shoe dropped. 1016 00:26:15,542 --> 00:26:18,244 - And I looked at her 1017 00:26:15,542 --> 00:26:18,244 and I said, 1018 00:26:18,278 --> 00:26:21,181 "Are you and Chuck together?" 1019 00:26:21,214 --> 00:26:23,550 And she said, "Yeah". 1020 00:26:23,583 --> 00:26:25,151 And I said, 1021 00:26:23,583 --> 00:26:25,151 "Are you gonna get married?" 1022 00:26:25,185 --> 00:26:28,722 And she goes, 1023 00:26:25,185 --> 00:26:28,722 "Oh, heavens, no". 1024 00:26:28,755 --> 00:26:30,724 - Though she was surprised, 1025 00:26:30,757 --> 00:26:33,193 Debbie wanted her good friend 1026 00:26:30,757 --> 00:26:33,193 to be happy. 1027 00:26:33,226 --> 00:26:35,362 And when the ship 1028 00:26:33,226 --> 00:26:35,362 docked in Cozumel, Mexico, 1029 00:26:35,395 --> 00:26:37,230 the group disembarked, 1030 00:26:35,395 --> 00:26:37,230 went shopping, 1031 00:26:37,263 --> 00:26:41,735 and then returned to the liner 1032 00:26:37,263 --> 00:26:41,735 and compared their treasures. 1033 00:26:41,768 --> 00:26:44,404 - And I said, 1034 00:26:41,768 --> 00:26:44,404 "So what did you guys get?" 1035 00:26:44,437 --> 00:26:48,740 And, uh, Martha Ann's like, 1036 00:26:48,740 --> 00:26:49,676 "You'll just have to 1037 00:26:48,740 --> 00:26:49,676 wait and see". 1038 00:26:49,709 --> 00:26:51,177 Very, very mysterious. 1039 00:26:51,211 --> 00:26:54,214 And, you know, 1040 00:26:51,211 --> 00:26:54,214 it was-it was kind of fun. 1041 00:26:54,247 --> 00:26:58,785 A few weeks after the cruise 1042 00:26:54,247 --> 00:26:58,785 and months after Bob's death, 1043 00:26:58,818 --> 00:27:02,355 Martha Ann invited Debbie 1044 00:26:58,818 --> 00:27:02,355 and her husband to lunch. 1045 00:27:02,389 --> 00:27:04,824 - She said, 1046 00:27:02,389 --> 00:27:04,824 "I have something to show you". 1047 00:27:04,858 --> 00:27:07,761 And I said to her, 1048 00:27:04,858 --> 00:27:07,761 "Is this our Cozumel surprise?" 1049 00:27:07,794 --> 00:27:09,896 And she pulls out a ring box 1050 00:27:09,929 --> 00:27:14,434 that has the most gorgeous 1051 00:27:09,929 --> 00:27:14,434 wedding set 1052 00:27:14,467 --> 00:27:16,690 you'd ever wanna lay eyes on. 1053 00:27:16,102 --> 00:27:19,390 It was breathtaking. 1054 00:27:16,102 --> 00:27:19,390 - Rings? 1055 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,275 - And I'm like, 1056 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,275 oh, my God, this is ex-- 1057 00:27:22,308 --> 00:27:24,310 I can't believe it! 1058 00:27:24,344 --> 00:27:26,880 - They weren't getting 1059 00:27:24,344 --> 00:27:26,880 married immediately. 1060 00:27:26,913 --> 00:27:29,716 But when that time came, 1061 00:27:26,913 --> 00:27:29,716 Martha Ann assured Debbie 1062 00:27:29,749 --> 00:27:32,185 she would play 1063 00:27:29,749 --> 00:27:32,185 the supporting role. 1064 00:27:32,218 --> 00:27:34,554 She said, "And I want you 1065 00:27:32,218 --> 00:27:34,554 to be my maid of honor". 1066 00:27:34,587 --> 00:27:36,890 And I'm like, 1067 00:27:34,587 --> 00:27:36,890 "Oh, yeah, I'm excited. 1068 00:27:36,122 --> 00:27:37,757 Absolutely. 1069 00:27:36,122 --> 00:27:37,757 I would love to be-- 1070 00:27:37,791 --> 00:27:39,959 You know, 1071 00:27:37,791 --> 00:27:39,959 and I'm ecstatic for you. 1072 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,495 And I would be very honored 1073 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,495 to be your maid of honor." 1074 00:27:42,529 --> 00:27:46,666 - Big deal to be asked? 1075 00:27:42,529 --> 00:27:46,666 - Big deal. 1076 00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:49,469 - So in spite of 1077 00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:49,469 the apparent sneaking around, 1078 00:27:49,502 --> 00:27:50,437 thought Debbie, 1079 00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:53,730 there was something 1080 00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:53,730 almost poetic 1081 00:27:53,106 --> 00:27:56,109 about the romance between 1082 00:27:53,106 --> 00:27:56,109 Martha Ann and Chuck. 1083 00:27:56,142 --> 00:27:59,412 And maybe dear old Bob 1084 00:27:56,142 --> 00:27:59,412 would approve. 1085 00:27:59,446 --> 00:28:02,148 - I'm just so happy that 1086 00:27:59,446 --> 00:28:02,148 the two of you, you know, 1087 00:28:02,182 --> 00:28:03,883 have found one another. 1088 00:28:03,917 --> 00:28:06,753 You know, I know we've-we've 1089 00:28:03,917 --> 00:28:06,753 lost somebody dear to us, 1090 00:28:06,786 --> 00:28:09,155 but-but something good 1091 00:28:06,786 --> 00:28:09,155 has come out of this, 1092 00:28:09,189 --> 00:28:12,892 so congratulations. 1093 00:28:12,926 --> 00:28:14,527 - And besides romance, 1094 00:28:14,561 --> 00:28:17,197 there was so much more 1095 00:28:14,561 --> 00:28:17,197 to celebrate. 1096 00:28:17,230 --> 00:28:20,433 Martha Ann and Chuck 1097 00:28:17,230 --> 00:28:20,433 were going places. 1098 00:28:20,467 --> 00:28:21,901 They were about to be 1099 00:28:20,467 --> 00:28:21,901 transformed 1100 00:28:21,935 --> 00:28:24,838 from local Tennessee 1101 00:28:21,935 --> 00:28:24,838 romantic partners 1102 00:28:24,871 --> 00:28:29,609 into a sophisticated 1103 00:28:24,871 --> 00:28:29,609 Washington, D.C. power couple. 1104 00:28:29,642 --> 00:28:34,180 Only in America. 1105 00:28:29,642 --> 00:28:34,180 - Coming up... 1106 00:28:34,214 --> 00:28:38,510 - She met a man from the FBI, 1107 00:28:34,214 --> 00:28:38,510 and she would be traveling 1108 00:28:38,510 --> 00:28:39,586 on secret missions-- 1109 00:28:39,619 --> 00:28:41,488 - Flying on Air Force Two 1110 00:28:39,619 --> 00:28:41,488 or something? 1111 00:28:41,521 --> 00:28:43,223 - Right, 1112 00:28:41,521 --> 00:28:43,223 with the Vice President. 1113 00:28:49,329 --> 00:28:56,536 ** 1114 00:28:57,671 --> 00:29:02,420 - It was five months or so 1115 00:28:57,671 --> 00:29:02,420 after Bob's death, late 2006, 1116 00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:04,544 Martha Ann and Chuck 1117 00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:04,544 were about to move up 1118 00:29:04,577 --> 00:29:05,879 in the world. 1119 00:29:05,912 --> 00:29:09,820 Martha Ann broke the news 1120 00:29:05,912 --> 00:29:09,820 to Bob's sister, Kathy. 1121 00:29:09,115 --> 00:29:11,618 She had parlayed 1122 00:29:09,115 --> 00:29:11,618 her office wizardry 1123 00:29:11,651 --> 00:29:14,200 into a big, new, 1124 00:29:11,651 --> 00:29:14,200 high-profile adventure 1125 00:29:14,540 --> 00:29:15,555 with the federal government, 1126 00:29:15,588 --> 00:29:18,792 would be spending time 1127 00:29:15,588 --> 00:29:18,792 in Washington, D.C. 1128 00:29:18,825 --> 00:29:23,463 - She told me one day that 1129 00:29:18,825 --> 00:29:23,463 she met a man from the FBI, 1130 00:29:23,496 --> 00:29:26,900 and he offered her a job 1131 00:29:23,496 --> 00:29:26,900 as a secretary. 1132 00:29:26,933 --> 00:29:28,902 She was getting 1133 00:29:26,933 --> 00:29:28,902 a security clearance, 1134 00:29:28,935 --> 00:29:31,771 and she would be traveling 1135 00:29:28,935 --> 00:29:31,771 out of the country 1136 00:29:31,805 --> 00:29:34,607 on secret missions-- 1137 00:29:31,805 --> 00:29:34,607 - As a secretary? 1138 00:29:34,641 --> 00:29:38,645 - Yeah. Yeah. 1139 00:29:38,678 --> 00:29:41,214 - It wasn't long before 1140 00:29:38,678 --> 00:29:41,214 Martha Ann was promoted. 1141 00:29:41,247 --> 00:29:42,482 As she told Kathy, 1142 00:29:42,515 --> 00:29:45,510 she was transferred 1143 00:29:42,515 --> 00:29:45,510 to the State Department. 1144 00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:46,619 Very hush hush. 1145 00:29:46,653 --> 00:29:50,560 She had a limo at her disposal, 1146 00:29:46,653 --> 00:29:50,560 two passports, 1147 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,257 and with a government pension, 1148 00:29:51,291 --> 00:29:54,160 would never have 1149 00:29:51,291 --> 00:29:54,160 any money worries again. 1150 00:29:54,194 --> 00:29:56,429 Her schedule 1151 00:29:54,194 --> 00:29:56,429 filled up fast. 1152 00:29:56,463 --> 00:29:59,632 She was apparently moving 1153 00:29:56,463 --> 00:29:59,632 in the very highest circles. 1154 00:29:59,666 --> 00:30:03,703 She was already working for, 1155 00:29:59,666 --> 00:30:03,703 or flying on Air Force Two-- 1156 00:30:03,737 --> 00:30:04,537 - Right, yeah. 1157 00:30:04,571 --> 00:30:06,573 Yeah, with 1158 00:30:04,571 --> 00:30:06,573 the vice president. 1159 00:30:06,606 --> 00:30:10,430 - Including travel to 1160 00:30:06,606 --> 00:30:10,430 undisclosed locations. 1161 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,378 - She's kind of 1162 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,378 hard to get hold of? 1163 00:30:11,411 --> 00:30:12,412 - Oh, yeah. 1164 00:30:12,445 --> 00:30:13,680 There was no way of 1165 00:30:12,445 --> 00:30:13,680 getting a hold of her. 1166 00:30:13,713 --> 00:30:15,882 - Sean, 1167 00:30:13,713 --> 00:30:15,882 though he moved to Tennessee 1168 00:30:15,915 --> 00:30:19,152 with Jen and the kids 1169 00:30:15,915 --> 00:30:19,152 and became a bridge inspector, 1170 00:30:19,185 --> 00:30:20,887 couldn't reach his mom either. 1171 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,291 - I would call my Mom 1172 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,291 to check in on her 1173 00:30:25,325 --> 00:30:29,396 and she would go missing 1174 00:30:25,325 --> 00:30:29,396 for a month at a time, 1175 00:30:29,429 --> 00:30:30,864 two months at a time. 1176 00:30:30,897 --> 00:30:35,680 And you couldn't reach her 1177 00:30:30,897 --> 00:30:35,680 by cell phone or home phone. 1178 00:30:35,101 --> 00:30:41,410 And as we find out, 1179 00:30:35,101 --> 00:30:41,410 she's out traveling the country. 1180 00:30:42,809 --> 00:30:45,345 - And though she was 1181 00:30:42,809 --> 00:30:45,345 clearly very busy, 1182 00:30:45,378 --> 00:30:47,681 Martha Ann, 1183 00:30:45,378 --> 00:30:47,681 along with Chuck, 1184 00:30:47,714 --> 00:30:51,751 carved out time to give back, 1185 00:30:47,714 --> 00:30:51,751 to volunteer. 1186 00:30:51,785 --> 00:30:53,653 Together, they traveled 1187 00:30:51,785 --> 00:30:53,653 the country 1188 00:30:53,687 --> 00:30:55,722 visiting military facilities. 1189 00:30:55,755 --> 00:31:00,160 They presided over dedications 1190 00:30:55,755 --> 00:31:00,160 and ceremonies honoring troops. 1191 00:31:00,193 --> 00:31:03,863 And Chuck handed flags 1192 00:31:00,193 --> 00:31:03,863 to war widows at cemeteries. 1193 00:31:03,897 --> 00:31:06,666 - Chuck would go out 1194 00:31:03,897 --> 00:31:06,666 with all these medals 1195 00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:08,868 and he'd go to 1196 00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:08,868 the local high school 1197 00:31:08,902 --> 00:31:11,104 and to veterans parades. 1198 00:31:11,137 --> 00:31:13,540 - He also reconnected 1199 00:31:11,137 --> 00:31:13,540 with the guys 1200 00:31:13,573 --> 00:31:15,975 he'd served with way back when. 1201 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,244 They recalled old times. 1202 00:31:18,278 --> 00:31:20,146 - When I first met Chuck, 1203 00:31:20,180 --> 00:31:22,820 he had just started 1204 00:31:20,180 --> 00:31:22,820 his training. 1205 00:31:22,820 --> 00:31:24,217 He just fit in 1206 00:31:22,820 --> 00:31:24,217 like all the other guys. 1207 00:31:24,250 --> 00:31:27,687 He was just one of us. 1208 00:31:24,250 --> 00:31:27,687 - He seemed to be a nice guy. 1209 00:31:27,721 --> 00:31:30,757 - Bill Walter and P.J. Cook 1210 00:31:27,721 --> 00:31:30,757 are combat veterans 1211 00:31:30,790 --> 00:31:32,392 who, with Chuck, were gunners 1212 00:31:32,425 --> 00:31:35,428 on some of the most powerful 1213 00:31:32,425 --> 00:31:35,428 gun ships in the U.S. Arsenal 1214 00:31:35,462 --> 00:31:37,970 back in Vietnam. 1215 00:31:37,970 --> 00:31:39,799 They lost touch, 1216 00:31:37,970 --> 00:31:39,799 easy to do 1217 00:31:39,833 --> 00:31:42,102 in such a sprawling military. 1218 00:31:42,102 --> 00:31:44,804 But decades later, 1219 00:31:42,102 --> 00:31:44,804 P.J. ran into Chuck 1220 00:31:44,838 --> 00:31:49,576 at a reunion of his gunship unit 1221 00:31:44,838 --> 00:31:49,576 called the Spectre Association. 1222 00:31:49,609 --> 00:31:51,678 - So it was kind of just 1223 00:31:49,609 --> 00:31:51,678 good to see the guy 1224 00:31:51,711 --> 00:31:53,179 'cause he was just a guy 1225 00:31:51,711 --> 00:31:53,179 we served with. 1226 00:31:53,213 --> 00:31:55,115 I just assumed that 1227 00:31:53,213 --> 00:31:55,115 he completed his career 1228 00:31:55,148 --> 00:31:56,282 like I did. 1229 00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:59,152 And, uh, I served 22 years, 1230 00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:59,152 Bill served 30, 1231 00:31:59,185 --> 00:32:02,288 and we gave our whole life 1232 00:31:59,185 --> 00:32:02,288 to this unit. 1233 00:32:02,322 --> 00:32:04,570 - Back in the old days, 1234 00:32:02,322 --> 00:32:04,570 said Bill, 1235 00:32:04,570 --> 00:32:06,626 Chuck's nickname was Kaz. 1236 00:32:06,659 --> 00:32:09,229 But now Kaz had come up 1237 00:32:06,659 --> 00:32:09,229 in the world 1238 00:32:09,262 --> 00:32:12,766 from the lowest ranks 1239 00:32:09,262 --> 00:32:12,766 to the highest. 1240 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:14,367 - So I go up there 1241 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:14,367 and I talk to him 1242 00:32:14,401 --> 00:32:16,636 and I said, 1243 00:32:14,401 --> 00:32:16,636 "Hey, Kaz, what's up, man? 1244 00:32:16,670 --> 00:32:17,837 How you been doin'?" 1245 00:32:17,871 --> 00:32:22,750 He says, "Oh, I retired here 1246 00:32:17,871 --> 00:32:22,750 a couple of years ago". 1247 00:32:22,750 --> 00:32:23,209 Really? 1248 00:32:22,750 --> 00:32:23,209 Wow. 1249 00:32:23,243 --> 00:32:26,312 And I said, "Well, 1250 00:32:23,243 --> 00:32:26,312 what-what was your rank?" 1251 00:32:26,346 --> 00:32:29,649 "I retired as a chief". 1252 00:32:26,346 --> 00:32:29,649 I'm like, "really?" 1253 00:32:29,683 --> 00:32:31,551 - As the former airmen 1254 00:32:29,683 --> 00:32:31,551 caught up on 1255 00:32:31,584 --> 00:32:35,922 more than 25 years, 1256 00:32:31,584 --> 00:32:35,922 Chuck flashed his medals. 1257 00:32:35,955 --> 00:32:38,658 And Chuck says, 1258 00:32:35,955 --> 00:32:38,658 "You guys should 1259 00:32:38,692 --> 00:32:40,860 check your classified records. 1260 00:32:40,894 --> 00:32:43,960 The VA checked 1261 00:32:40,894 --> 00:32:43,960 my classified records, 1262 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:44,764 and I found out 1263 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:44,764 I got a whole bunch of 1264 00:32:44,798 --> 00:32:48,635 really high medals from 1265 00:32:44,798 --> 00:32:48,635 my operations in Vietnam." 1266 00:32:48,668 --> 00:32:52,939 - Chuck invited P.J. to his home 1267 00:32:48,668 --> 00:32:52,939 in Knoxville, Tennessee. 1268 00:32:52,972 --> 00:32:55,275 - And I personally 1269 00:32:52,972 --> 00:32:55,275 saw these awards 1270 00:32:55,308 --> 00:32:57,711 on the wall in his house up 1271 00:32:55,308 --> 00:32:57,711 in Tennessee. 1272 00:32:57,744 --> 00:32:58,812 - What'd you think 1273 00:32:57,744 --> 00:32:58,812 when you saw 'em? 1274 00:32:58,845 --> 00:33:00,146 - Oh, I was floored. 1275 00:32:58,845 --> 00:33:00,146 And I said, 1276 00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:01,781 "Well, that's-that's really 1277 00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:01,781 great you got this". 1278 00:33:01,815 --> 00:33:04,840 He goes, "Oh, yeah, you know, 1279 00:33:01,815 --> 00:33:04,840 they finally released these 1280 00:33:04,117 --> 00:33:06,886 from classification 1281 00:33:04,117 --> 00:33:06,886 and here they are." 1282 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,550 - Then Chuck had an idea. 1283 00:33:09,550 --> 00:33:10,757 He figured 1284 00:33:09,550 --> 00:33:10,757 the Spectre Association 1285 00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:14,600 could benefit from 1286 00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:14,600 Martha Ann's high wattage 1287 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,970 political and business savvy. 1288 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,970 - Wow. 1289 00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:20,633 Hey, anybody that 1290 00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:20,633 volunteers to help is great. 1291 00:33:20,667 --> 00:33:22,135 - And as the months went by, 1292 00:33:22,168 --> 00:33:24,804 Martha Ann carved out time 1293 00:33:22,168 --> 00:33:24,804 from her schedule 1294 00:33:24,838 --> 00:33:28,108 to become association secretary. 1295 00:33:28,141 --> 00:33:30,276 - She was our recorder. 1296 00:33:28,141 --> 00:33:30,276 Yes. 1297 00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:33,546 She was really good 1298 00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:33,546 at taking down notes 1299 00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:38,385 and making paper 1300 00:33:33,580 --> 00:33:38,385 and so forth. 1301 00:33:38,418 --> 00:33:41,388 - Association members were 1302 00:33:38,418 --> 00:33:41,388 so impressed with the couple 1303 00:33:41,421 --> 00:33:43,590 that Chuck was promoted 1304 00:33:41,421 --> 00:33:43,590 to the board. 1305 00:33:43,623 --> 00:33:46,920 He and Martha Ann 1306 00:33:43,623 --> 00:33:46,920 traveled internationally 1307 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,596 representing Spectre, 1308 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,596 carrying the unit's mascot. 1309 00:33:49,629 --> 00:33:51,731 And there was 1310 00:33:49,629 --> 00:33:51,731 time for fun, too. 1311 00:33:51,765 --> 00:33:54,300 They reveled in 1312 00:33:51,765 --> 00:33:54,300 their newfound happiness, 1313 00:33:54,334 --> 00:33:56,102 enjoyed their 1314 00:33:54,334 --> 00:33:56,102 new responsibilities, 1315 00:33:56,136 --> 00:33:58,738 of course, but also decided 1316 00:33:56,136 --> 00:33:58,738 to live a little. 1317 00:33:58,772 --> 00:34:00,106 - Just out of nowhere 1318 00:33:58,772 --> 00:34:00,106 they said that, 1319 00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:02,142 "Boy, we'd certainly 1320 00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:02,142 like to have an RV". 1321 00:34:02,175 --> 00:34:03,677 And my wife says, 1322 00:34:02,175 --> 00:34:03,677 "Well, you know, 1323 00:34:03,710 --> 00:34:06,379 my boss is selling 1324 00:34:03,710 --> 00:34:06,379 a beautiful RV". 1325 00:34:06,413 --> 00:34:08,681 Well, of course, 1326 00:34:06,413 --> 00:34:08,681 they went and looked at the RV 1327 00:34:08,715 --> 00:34:11,784 and liked it a lot, 1328 00:34:08,715 --> 00:34:11,784 so they made him an offer. 1329 00:34:11,818 --> 00:34:14,286 - Right next to the RV, 1330 00:34:11,818 --> 00:34:14,286 Chuck noticed 1331 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,190 a garaged anniversary 1332 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,190 edition Corvette. 1333 00:34:18,224 --> 00:34:19,958 Tempting, even though 1334 00:34:18,224 --> 00:34:19,958 he already had 1335 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,228 a Mercedes convertible. 1336 00:34:22,262 --> 00:34:24,931 - He said, 1337 00:34:22,262 --> 00:34:24,931 "Well, I like Corvettes too. 1338 00:34:24,964 --> 00:34:26,989 Show me that." 1339 00:34:26,132 --> 00:34:28,668 Next thing you know, 1340 00:34:26,132 --> 00:34:28,668 they bought the Corvette, too. 1341 00:34:28,702 --> 00:34:30,303 - And pretty soon 1342 00:34:28,702 --> 00:34:30,303 they were parading 1343 00:34:30,337 --> 00:34:33,540 their new toys for 1344 00:34:30,337 --> 00:34:33,540 their old friend Debbie. 1345 00:34:33,572 --> 00:34:35,608 - I hear a knock 1346 00:34:33,572 --> 00:34:35,608 on the front door. 1347 00:34:35,641 --> 00:34:38,844 And I opened the door, 1348 00:34:35,641 --> 00:34:38,844 and sitting in front of my house 1349 00:34:38,878 --> 00:34:45,850 is this gorgeous, 1350 00:34:38,878 --> 00:34:45,850 like $350,000 motor home bus. 1351 00:34:45,850 --> 00:34:47,920 - Wow. 1352 00:34:45,850 --> 00:34:47,920 - And it was to die for. 1353 00:34:47,954 --> 00:34:52,920 This is what the wealthiest 1354 00:34:47,954 --> 00:34:52,920 of the wealthiest drive. 1355 00:34:52,125 --> 00:34:55,495 It had been custom made. 1356 00:34:52,125 --> 00:34:55,495 - To Debbie and others. 1357 00:34:55,527 --> 00:34:58,365 Martha Ann and Chuck 1358 00:34:55,527 --> 00:34:58,365 had made it. 1359 00:34:58,398 --> 00:35:01,301 They put Bob's painful death 1360 00:34:58,398 --> 00:35:01,301 behind them and 1361 00:35:01,334 --> 00:35:04,537 were now a high powered couple 1362 00:35:01,334 --> 00:35:04,537 doing good things 1363 00:35:04,571 --> 00:35:06,390 and living well. 1364 00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:08,508 The sort of success 1365 00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:08,508 a person wants to share. 1366 00:35:08,541 --> 00:35:12,112 In early 2008, 1367 00:35:08,541 --> 00:35:12,112 Chuck relished the opportunity 1368 00:35:12,145 --> 00:35:14,214 to share with 1369 00:35:12,145 --> 00:35:14,214 a group of young people 1370 00:35:14,247 --> 00:35:17,751 stories about 1371 00:35:14,247 --> 00:35:17,751 his many combat exploits. 1372 00:35:17,784 --> 00:35:21,221 And what do you know, 1373 00:35:17,784 --> 00:35:21,221 when he made his speech 1374 00:35:21,254 --> 00:35:23,890 there was a reporter 1375 00:35:21,254 --> 00:35:23,890 in the room 1376 00:35:23,923 --> 00:35:27,227 writing it all down 1377 00:35:23,923 --> 00:35:27,227 for the local paper. 1378 00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:32,650 Oops. 1379 00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:32,650 - Coming up... 1380 00:35:32,650 --> 00:35:35,835 Chuck and Martha Ann were in for 1381 00:35:32,650 --> 00:35:35,835 a very rude awakening. 1382 00:35:35,869 --> 00:35:38,505 - The B.S. alarms 1383 00:35:35,869 --> 00:35:38,505 are going off in my head 1384 00:35:38,538 --> 00:35:40,206 like you wouldn't believe. 1385 00:35:45,278 --> 00:35:51,718 ** 1386 00:35:52,185 --> 00:35:53,553 - Amazing, isn't it? 1387 00:35:53,586 --> 00:35:56,890 A life could change on a dime. 1388 00:35:56,122 --> 00:35:57,991 In the spring of 2006, 1389 00:35:58,910 --> 00:36:00,226 Martha Ann 1390 00:35:58,910 --> 00:36:00,226 was burying her husband 1391 00:36:00,260 --> 00:36:02,662 and great love, 1392 00:36:00,260 --> 00:36:02,662 Bob McClancy. 1393 00:36:02,696 --> 00:36:06,320 But by the end of the year, 1394 00:36:02,696 --> 00:36:06,320 she had rebuilt her life 1395 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,135 and had a new partner, Chuck. 1396 00:36:09,169 --> 00:36:11,370 In the meantime, 1397 00:36:09,169 --> 00:36:11,370 Bob's sister, Kathy, 1398 00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:13,540 had questions for Martha Ann 1399 00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:13,540 about Chuck, 1400 00:36:13,573 --> 00:36:15,410 but couldn't reach her, 1401 00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:17,811 what with the State Department 1402 00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:17,811 travel schedule 1403 00:36:17,844 --> 00:36:19,646 and Air Force Two duties. 1404 00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:21,948 - I wanted to give her 1405 00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:21,948 the benefit of the doubt, 1406 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,151 but at that time, 1407 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,151 when I told my oldest sister 1408 00:36:25,185 --> 00:36:26,386 what was going on, 1409 00:36:25,185 --> 00:36:26,386 she said, 1410 00:36:26,419 --> 00:36:29,890 "Oh, there's more 1411 00:36:26,419 --> 00:36:29,890 to this story". 1412 00:36:29,122 --> 00:36:31,925 - Kathy still wanted answers 1413 00:36:29,122 --> 00:36:31,925 about her brother's death, 1414 00:36:31,958 --> 00:36:34,194 but you know how people 1415 00:36:31,958 --> 00:36:34,194 can start to sound 1416 00:36:34,227 --> 00:36:36,620 like broken records? 1417 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,798 - I think my family, friends, 1418 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,798 probably everybody 1419 00:36:38,832 --> 00:36:42,369 was tired of listening to me 1420 00:36:38,832 --> 00:36:42,369 saying, "This isn't right. 1421 00:36:42,402 --> 00:36:47,507 "I know something had to, 1422 00:36:42,402 --> 00:36:47,507 you know, had to have happened." 1423 00:36:47,540 --> 00:36:50,443 - When Martha Ann found 1424 00:36:47,540 --> 00:36:50,443 the time to respond to Kathy, 1425 00:36:50,477 --> 00:36:53,146 she told her she was 1426 00:36:50,477 --> 00:36:53,146 imagining things. 1427 00:36:53,179 --> 00:36:54,814 - Did she accuse 1428 00:36:53,179 --> 00:36:54,814 you of meddling? 1429 00:36:54,848 --> 00:36:56,149 - Right, yeah. Yeah. 1430 00:36:56,182 --> 00:36:59,850 She said, "Your brother always 1431 00:36:56,182 --> 00:36:59,850 said that you always had 1432 00:36:59,850 --> 00:37:01,870 "to get in 1433 00:36:59,850 --> 00:37:01,870 people's business. 1434 00:37:01,121 --> 00:37:04,691 "You could never just 1435 00:37:01,121 --> 00:37:04,691 let things-- let things lie." 1436 00:37:04,724 --> 00:37:06,693 And I guess that was true. 1437 00:37:06,726 --> 00:37:08,928 I don't stop 1438 00:37:06,726 --> 00:37:08,928 'til I find out. 1439 00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:12,432 - Then, she said Martha Ann 1440 00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:12,432 got even more snippy. 1441 00:37:12,465 --> 00:37:14,367 - She literally told me that 1442 00:37:12,465 --> 00:37:14,367 I needed psychiatric help. 1443 00:37:14,401 --> 00:37:19,139 I need to get over the fact 1444 00:37:14,401 --> 00:37:19,139 that my brother killed himself. 1445 00:37:19,172 --> 00:37:21,374 And I said, 1446 00:37:19,172 --> 00:37:21,374 "I will never. 1447 00:37:21,408 --> 00:37:23,343 "I will never 1448 00:37:21,408 --> 00:37:23,343 believe that." 1449 00:37:23,376 --> 00:37:25,345 - But Kathy wasn't the only one 1450 00:37:23,376 --> 00:37:25,345 getting the brush off 1451 00:37:25,378 --> 00:37:26,880 from Martha Ann. 1452 00:37:26,913 --> 00:37:28,214 Remember how 1453 00:37:26,913 --> 00:37:28,214 Martha Ann promised 1454 00:37:28,248 --> 00:37:31,510 that when she 1455 00:37:28,248 --> 00:37:31,510 eventually got married, 1456 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,354 her best friend, Debbie, 1457 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,354 would be maid of honor? 1458 00:37:34,387 --> 00:37:36,560 At the monthly meeting 1459 00:37:34,387 --> 00:37:36,560 of the Corvette Club 1460 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,658 in Knoxville, 1461 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,658 Debbie got a surprise 1462 00:37:38,692 --> 00:37:42,395 when the chairperson asked 1463 00:37:38,692 --> 00:37:42,395 new members to stand, 1464 00:37:42,429 --> 00:37:43,596 and... 1465 00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:45,131 - All of a sudden 1466 00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:45,131 I hear this, 1467 00:37:45,165 --> 00:37:47,233 "Hi, my name's 1468 00:37:45,165 --> 00:37:47,233 Chuck Kaczmarczyk, 1469 00:37:47,267 --> 00:37:49,436 "and this is my wife, 1470 00:37:47,267 --> 00:37:49,436 Martha Ann, and we've bought 1471 00:37:49,469 --> 00:37:51,237 "an anniversary 1472 00:37:49,469 --> 00:37:51,237 edition Corvette." 1473 00:37:51,271 --> 00:37:52,505 - Hang on just a second. 1474 00:37:52,539 --> 00:37:55,375 When he got up at the back 1475 00:37:52,539 --> 00:37:55,375 of the room that day and said, 1476 00:37:55,408 --> 00:37:57,677 "This is-- I'm Chuck 1477 00:37:55,408 --> 00:37:57,677 and this is my wife", 1478 00:37:57,711 --> 00:37:59,145 this is the first you knew 1479 00:37:57,711 --> 00:37:59,145 they were married? 1480 00:37:59,179 --> 00:38:01,314 - This is how I found out. 1481 00:38:01,348 --> 00:38:02,449 - You must have 1482 00:38:01,348 --> 00:38:02,449 been asleep that day 1483 00:38:02,482 --> 00:38:03,516 when you're 1484 00:38:02,482 --> 00:38:03,516 a maid of honor. 1485 00:38:03,550 --> 00:38:05,618 - I guess 1486 00:38:03,550 --> 00:38:05,618 I must have been. 1487 00:38:05,652 --> 00:38:08,455 So I said, Chuck, 1488 00:38:05,652 --> 00:38:08,455 you know, I was-- 1489 00:38:08,488 --> 00:38:10,924 actually, I was kind of hurt-- 1490 00:38:08,488 --> 00:38:10,924 - Well, not surprised. 1491 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:12,826 - And, uh, and I said, 1492 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:12,826 "You know, 1493 00:38:12,859 --> 00:38:14,661 "when did you all 1494 00:38:12,859 --> 00:38:14,661 get married?" 1495 00:38:14,694 --> 00:38:17,897 "Oh, we went on a cruise 1496 00:38:14,694 --> 00:38:17,897 and we got married on the beach 1497 00:38:17,931 --> 00:38:20,166 "down in some island." 1498 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,771 And I said, "Wow, you know 1499 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,771 that I'm happy for you. 1500 00:38:24,804 --> 00:38:27,440 "I'm still hurt, 1501 00:38:24,804 --> 00:38:27,440 but I'm happy for you." 1502 00:38:27,474 --> 00:38:29,376 - Rude awakening. 1503 00:38:29,409 --> 00:38:33,279 But nothing compared to 1504 00:38:29,409 --> 00:38:33,279 the morning early in 2008, 1505 00:38:33,313 --> 00:38:36,116 soon after Chuck gave his speech 1506 00:38:33,313 --> 00:38:36,116 to a group of students 1507 00:38:36,149 --> 00:38:40,687 eager to hear about his many 1508 00:38:36,149 --> 00:38:40,687 and heroic combat exploits. 1509 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:44,391 And a story about Chuck's talk 1510 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:44,391 appeared in the newspaper. 1511 00:38:44,424 --> 00:38:47,527 Vets who read it reacted 1512 00:38:44,424 --> 00:38:47,527 with outrage. 1513 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,264 At the same time, Bill Walter 1514 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,264 was hearing about Chuck 1515 00:38:51,297 --> 00:38:53,199 from another 1516 00:38:51,297 --> 00:38:53,199 veterans group. 1517 00:38:53,233 --> 00:38:55,201 - He was telling all 1518 00:38:53,233 --> 00:38:55,201 of his war stories to them, 1519 00:38:55,235 --> 00:38:57,437 and these guys were like, 1520 00:38:57,470 --> 00:38:58,905 "We never even heard 1521 00:38:57,470 --> 00:38:58,905 about you before. 1522 00:38:58,938 --> 00:39:01,474 "We've had these reunions 1523 00:38:58,938 --> 00:39:01,474 for thirty-some odd years, 1524 00:39:01,508 --> 00:39:02,842 "and this is the first one. 1525 00:39:02,876 --> 00:39:05,110 "Your name isn't 1526 00:39:02,876 --> 00:39:05,110 anywhere on here." 1527 00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:07,113 - Special Forces guys 1528 00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:07,113 like Bill and P.J. 1529 00:39:07,147 --> 00:39:09,816 didn't brag about 1530 00:39:07,147 --> 00:39:09,816 their service. 1531 00:39:09,849 --> 00:39:12,385 - I'm like, "Eh, it's just 1532 00:39:09,849 --> 00:39:12,385 some guy spoutin' off, 1533 00:39:12,419 --> 00:39:16,289 "talking trash, trying to 1534 00:39:12,419 --> 00:39:16,289 impress his buddies." 1535 00:39:16,322 --> 00:39:18,124 - People want to aggrandize 1536 00:39:16,322 --> 00:39:18,124 their service, right? 1537 00:39:18,158 --> 00:39:20,493 - Yeah, some-some guys do, 1538 00:39:18,158 --> 00:39:20,493 but it's very rare 1539 00:39:20,527 --> 00:39:23,730 around our people to do that, 1540 00:39:20,527 --> 00:39:23,730 especially when you're doing it 1541 00:39:23,763 --> 00:39:25,598 in front of 1542 00:39:23,763 --> 00:39:25,598 our own people. 1543 00:39:25,632 --> 00:39:27,534 - The veterans 1544 00:39:25,632 --> 00:39:27,534 called Chuck out. 1545 00:39:27,567 --> 00:39:32,706 - Well, Chuck went home all mad 1546 00:39:27,567 --> 00:39:32,706 because they challenged him. 1547 00:39:32,739 --> 00:39:34,307 "Doggone it, they cannot 1548 00:39:32,739 --> 00:39:34,307 challenge me." 1549 00:39:34,341 --> 00:39:35,508 - No. 1550 00:39:35,542 --> 00:39:39,450 And Chuck sent the group 1551 00:39:35,542 --> 00:39:39,450 his official military records, 1552 00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:40,647 just to prove he was 1553 00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:40,647 telling the truth. 1554 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,817 He also told them, 1555 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,817 due to an emergency, 1556 00:39:43,850 --> 00:39:46,619 he'd be dropping out 1557 00:39:43,850 --> 00:39:46,619 of circulation for a while. 1558 00:39:46,653 --> 00:39:50,290 Wouldn't be able to attend 1559 00:39:46,653 --> 00:39:50,290 any more reunions any time soon. 1560 00:39:50,323 --> 00:39:52,892 - And the B.S. alarms 1561 00:39:50,323 --> 00:39:52,892 are going off in my head 1562 00:39:52,926 --> 00:39:54,940 like you wouldn't believe. 1563 00:39:54,127 --> 00:39:55,962 - Bill and the others 1564 00:39:54,127 --> 00:39:55,962 informed the Air Force, 1565 00:39:56,620 --> 00:39:59,990 and then the Air Force contacted 1566 00:39:56,620 --> 00:39:59,990 the Veterans Administration, 1567 00:39:59,132 --> 00:40:01,468 asked him to check 1568 00:39:59,132 --> 00:40:01,468 this guy out. 1569 00:40:01,501 --> 00:40:04,471 The job fell to former Marine 1570 00:40:01,501 --> 00:40:04,471 and investigator 1571 00:40:04,504 --> 00:40:06,573 for the VA's Office 1572 00:40:04,504 --> 00:40:06,573 of Inspector General 1573 00:40:06,606 --> 00:40:09,909 in Nashville, 1574 00:40:06,606 --> 00:40:09,909 Special Agent Nate Landkammer. 1575 00:40:09,943 --> 00:40:12,412 - This is definitely 1576 00:40:09,943 --> 00:40:12,412 the case of a career. 1577 00:40:12,445 --> 00:40:13,947 I don't think I'll work 1578 00:40:12,445 --> 00:40:13,947 anything like this again 1579 00:40:13,980 --> 00:40:16,383 just because of 1580 00:40:13,980 --> 00:40:16,383 the different twists and turns. 1581 00:40:16,416 --> 00:40:18,551 - Twists and turns 1582 00:40:16,416 --> 00:40:18,551 that would end up 1583 00:40:18,585 --> 00:40:21,321 leading to 1584 00:40:18,585 --> 00:40:21,321 a chilling conclusion. 1585 00:40:21,354 --> 00:40:24,124 And right away, 1586 00:40:21,354 --> 00:40:24,124 here's what Nate heard. 1587 00:40:24,157 --> 00:40:27,260 - The people who had served 1588 00:40:24,157 --> 00:40:27,260 with him were very emphatic 1589 00:40:27,293 --> 00:40:29,796 that he had not participated 1590 00:40:27,293 --> 00:40:29,796 in these missions. 1591 00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:32,198 He specifically talked about 1592 00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:32,198 the Iran Hostage Rescue, 1593 00:40:32,232 --> 00:40:33,633 being a part of that, 1594 00:40:33,667 --> 00:40:37,370 being at the fall 1595 00:40:33,667 --> 00:40:37,370 of Saigon in Vietnam. 1596 00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:38,772 - He said he was there 1597 00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:38,772 for all the big-the big stuff? 1598 00:40:38,805 --> 00:40:40,206 - Yes. 1599 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:41,474 - Naturally, 1600 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:41,474 Nate's first step 1601 00:40:41,508 --> 00:40:43,143 was to check Chuck's 1602 00:40:41,508 --> 00:40:43,143 service records. 1603 00:40:43,176 --> 00:40:44,878 So he went back 1604 00:40:43,176 --> 00:40:44,878 to the Air Force 1605 00:40:44,911 --> 00:40:48,810 and was surprised by what 1606 00:40:44,911 --> 00:40:48,810 he found in Chuck's file, 1607 00:40:48,114 --> 00:40:49,916 not what he expected. 1608 00:40:49,949 --> 00:40:54,654 - His records did contain 1609 00:40:49,949 --> 00:40:54,654 items substantiating, um, 1610 00:40:54,688 --> 00:40:56,923 significant combat service 1611 00:40:54,688 --> 00:40:56,923 in Vietnam 1612 00:40:56,956 --> 00:40:58,725 and-and after Vietnam. 1613 00:40:58,758 --> 00:41:00,493 - Did he have a Silver Star 1614 00:40:58,758 --> 00:41:00,493 or something? 1615 00:41:00,527 --> 00:41:03,960 - Purple Hearts, 1616 00:41:00,527 --> 00:41:03,960 the Distinguished Flying Cross, 1617 00:41:03,129 --> 00:41:05,398 some very, very high-- 1618 00:41:03,129 --> 00:41:05,398 - This is big deal stuff. 1619 00:41:05,432 --> 00:41:06,733 - Very high awards. 1620 00:41:06,766 --> 00:41:10,537 And they were substantiated 1621 00:41:06,766 --> 00:41:10,537 by names and socials 1622 00:41:10,570 --> 00:41:14,574 and names of missions and dates 1623 00:41:10,570 --> 00:41:14,574 that these missions took place. 1624 00:41:14,607 --> 00:41:16,476 - So as far as 1625 00:41:14,607 --> 00:41:16,476 the Air Force knew, 1626 00:41:16,509 --> 00:41:17,444 he was on 1627 00:41:16,509 --> 00:41:17,444 the up and up? 1628 00:41:17,477 --> 00:41:18,878 - Yes. 1629 00:41:18,912 --> 00:41:22,382 - Which presented a dilemma 1630 00:41:18,912 --> 00:41:22,382 for the VA investigator. 1631 00:41:22,415 --> 00:41:24,417 - So you've got really 1632 00:41:22,415 --> 00:41:24,417 good looking documents, 1633 00:41:24,451 --> 00:41:25,985 but you're sitting in 1634 00:41:24,451 --> 00:41:25,985 somebody's living room 1635 00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:27,721 and he's saying to you, 1636 00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:27,721 "That's all B.S."? 1637 00:41:27,754 --> 00:41:28,855 - Yes. 1638 00:41:28,888 --> 00:41:31,910 From the Air Force Service 1639 00:41:28,888 --> 00:41:31,910 members that I talked to 1640 00:41:31,124 --> 00:41:34,594 that served with him, 1641 00:41:31,124 --> 00:41:34,594 every one of 'em was emphatic 1642 00:41:34,627 --> 00:41:36,796 that he did not participate 1643 00:41:34,627 --> 00:41:36,796 in any combat. 1644 00:41:36,830 --> 00:41:39,990 - At all? 1645 00:41:36,830 --> 00:41:39,990 - At all. 1646 00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:40,667 - So Nate went back 1647 00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:40,667 to the Air Force, 1648 00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:43,670 asked them to 1649 00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:43,670 double check. 1650 00:41:43,703 --> 00:41:46,539 - The Air Force really started 1651 00:41:43,703 --> 00:41:46,539 poring over these documents 1652 00:41:46,573 --> 00:41:49,342 of the missions 1653 00:41:46,573 --> 00:41:49,342 and the order numbers 1654 00:41:49,376 --> 00:41:52,178 and rather quickly determined 1655 00:41:49,376 --> 00:41:52,178 that these were all, 1656 00:41:52,212 --> 00:41:53,480 um, forged documents. 1657 00:41:53,513 --> 00:41:55,215 They were not legitimate. 1658 00:41:55,248 --> 00:41:57,117 - Yes, Chuck had been 1659 00:41:55,248 --> 00:41:57,117 in the Air Force, 1660 00:41:57,117 --> 00:41:59,919 but no act of heroism. 1661 00:41:59,953 --> 00:42:01,921 Chuck had doctored 1662 00:41:59,953 --> 00:42:01,921 old mission records, 1663 00:42:01,955 --> 00:42:05,725 inserting his name and some 1664 00:42:01,955 --> 00:42:05,725 official looking stamps. 1665 00:42:05,759 --> 00:42:08,428 All of it convincing enough 1666 00:42:05,759 --> 00:42:08,428 he was able to get 1667 00:42:08,461 --> 00:42:12,650 the forged documents entered 1668 00:42:08,461 --> 00:42:12,650 into his own Air Force record. 1669 00:42:12,650 --> 00:42:13,833 - So he'd gone to 1670 00:42:12,650 --> 00:42:13,833 an awful lot of trouble 1671 00:42:13,867 --> 00:42:15,680 to lie about his service? 1672 00:42:15,101 --> 00:42:16,469 - Yes, he did. 1673 00:42:16,503 --> 00:42:18,138 - And if he lied 1674 00:42:16,503 --> 00:42:18,138 about his service, 1675 00:42:18,171 --> 00:42:20,640 Nate wondered what else 1676 00:42:18,171 --> 00:42:20,640 the phony war hero 1677 00:42:20,674 --> 00:42:22,750 might be hiding. 1678 00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:25,912 So he kept digging, 1679 00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:25,912 because down deep 1680 00:42:25,945 --> 00:42:29,416 where it really gets mucky, 1681 00:42:25,945 --> 00:42:29,416 evil lives. 1682 00:42:29,449 --> 00:42:35,588 And quite possibly evidence 1683 00:42:29,449 --> 00:42:35,588 of an unimaginable crime. 1684 00:42:35,622 --> 00:42:40,326 - Coming up, Nate Landkammer 1685 00:42:35,622 --> 00:42:40,326 would launch a special operation 1686 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:41,895 to learn the truth. 1687 00:42:41,928 --> 00:42:44,898 - We start doing surveillance 1688 00:42:41,928 --> 00:42:44,898 on Charles and Martha Ann. 1689 00:42:44,931 --> 00:42:47,334 - Chuck in a wheelchair? 1690 00:42:47,367 --> 00:42:50,704 When "Dateline: 1691 00:42:47,367 --> 00:42:50,704 Secrets Uncovered" continues. 1692 00:42:57,977 --> 00:43:00,313 - Welcome back to 1693 00:42:57,977 --> 00:43:00,313 "Dateline: Secrets Uncovered". 1694 00:43:00,347 --> 00:43:01,514 I'm Kate Snow. 1695 00:43:01,548 --> 00:43:04,217 Questions lingered about 1696 00:43:01,548 --> 00:43:04,217 the death of Bob McClancy. 1697 00:43:04,250 --> 00:43:07,354 His wife, Martha Ann 1698 00:43:04,250 --> 00:43:07,354 and his best friend Chuck 1699 00:43:07,387 --> 00:43:11,570 had moved on to new lives 1700 00:43:07,387 --> 00:43:11,570 as a glamorous military couple. 1701 00:43:11,570 --> 00:43:13,760 But were they 1702 00:43:11,570 --> 00:43:13,760 camouflaging a secret? 1703 00:43:13,793 --> 00:43:17,430 Investigators thought so, 1704 00:43:13,793 --> 00:43:17,430 but even they had no idea 1705 00:43:17,464 --> 00:43:21,301 just how diabolical the truth 1706 00:43:17,464 --> 00:43:21,301 would turn out to be. 1707 00:43:21,334 --> 00:43:23,269 Here's Keith Morrison 1708 00:43:21,334 --> 00:43:23,269 with more 1709 00:43:23,303 --> 00:43:25,638 of "Secrets in 1710 00:43:23,303 --> 00:43:25,638 the Smoky Mountains". 1711 00:43:27,507 --> 00:43:29,142 - Chuck Kaczmarczyk 1712 00:43:27,507 --> 00:43:29,142 didn't know it, 1713 00:43:29,175 --> 00:43:31,411 but he was 1714 00:43:29,175 --> 00:43:31,411 under investigation. 1715 00:43:31,444 --> 00:43:34,800 While, his military record 1716 00:43:31,444 --> 00:43:34,800 engraved him into the pages 1717 00:43:34,114 --> 00:43:37,784 of American history, borne out 1718 00:43:34,114 --> 00:43:37,784 by a chest full of ribbons, 1719 00:43:37,817 --> 00:43:39,819 the combat veterans 1720 00:43:37,817 --> 00:43:39,819 who knew him 1721 00:43:39,853 --> 00:43:42,288 were saying this guy 1722 00:43:39,853 --> 00:43:42,288 was a fake. 1723 00:43:42,322 --> 00:43:43,957 After a close inspection, 1724 00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:46,359 Air Force officials 1725 00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:46,359 were inclined to agree. 1726 00:43:46,393 --> 00:43:48,828 They determined 1727 00:43:46,393 --> 00:43:48,828 the documents 1728 00:43:48,862 --> 00:43:51,598 chronicling Chuck's heroics 1729 00:43:48,862 --> 00:43:51,598 were forgeries. 1730 00:43:51,631 --> 00:43:53,700 And that was no joke 1731 00:43:51,631 --> 00:43:53,700 to VA investigator 1732 00:43:53,733 --> 00:43:56,302 and former Marine, 1733 00:43:53,733 --> 00:43:56,302 Nate Landkammer. 1734 00:43:56,336 --> 00:43:57,604 - It's very offensive. 1735 00:43:57,637 --> 00:43:59,472 Very offensive to me. 1736 00:43:59,506 --> 00:44:00,940 - Personally? 1737 00:43:59,506 --> 00:44:00,940 - Yes. 1738 00:44:01,410 --> 00:44:03,677 - Wasn't he, uh, like, 1739 00:44:01,410 --> 00:44:03,677 appearing at Arlington Cemetery 1740 00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:06,746 to give flags 1741 00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:06,746 to widows and so on? 1742 00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:10,830 - He was appearing at funerals, 1743 00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:10,830 wearing his Purple Heart 1744 00:44:10,116 --> 00:44:13,720 and comforting widows 1745 00:44:10,116 --> 00:44:13,720 of servicemen 1746 00:44:13,753 --> 00:44:16,560 who had died in combat. 1747 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:17,524 - Oh, but it got worse. 1748 00:44:17,557 --> 00:44:20,694 As Nate kept digging, 1749 00:44:17,557 --> 00:44:20,694 he discovered something 1750 00:44:20,727 --> 00:44:22,729 about Martha Ann. 1751 00:44:22,762 --> 00:44:27,670 Martha Ann, who'd never donned 1752 00:44:22,762 --> 00:44:27,670 a military uniform in her life, 1753 00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:31,838 showed up at a veterans retreat 1754 00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:31,838 and claimed that she, too, 1755 00:44:31,871 --> 00:44:35,408 had rank and medals 1756 00:44:31,871 --> 00:44:35,408 and combat experience. 1757 00:44:35,442 --> 00:44:38,244 She showed off 1758 00:44:35,442 --> 00:44:38,244 a Purple Heart. 1759 00:44:38,278 --> 00:44:42,215 - Several of the attendees 1760 00:44:38,278 --> 00:44:42,215 at this retreat, um, 1761 00:44:42,248 --> 00:44:45,218 specifically remember her 1762 00:44:42,248 --> 00:44:45,218 talking all about working 1763 00:44:45,251 --> 00:44:47,120 at the Pentagon, 1764 00:44:45,251 --> 00:44:47,120 being at the Pentagon 1765 00:44:47,153 --> 00:44:49,756 during the 9/11 attacks. 1766 00:44:49,789 --> 00:44:53,159 And, uh, Charles was also 1767 00:44:49,789 --> 00:44:53,159 telling people that, yeah, 1768 00:44:53,193 --> 00:44:56,960 she's a full bird colonel 1769 00:44:53,193 --> 00:44:56,960 in the Marine Corps, retired. 1770 00:44:56,129 --> 00:44:58,980 - And nobody 1771 00:44:56,129 --> 00:44:58,980 questioned her then? 1772 00:44:58,131 --> 00:44:59,699 - No. 1773 00:44:59,733 --> 00:45:02,350 They believed her. 1774 00:45:02,350 --> 00:45:05,405 - But Nate discovered 1775 00:45:02,350 --> 00:45:05,405 that military glory, 1776 00:45:05,438 --> 00:45:09,576 that big time government career, 1777 00:45:05,438 --> 00:45:09,576 didn't exist. 1778 00:45:09,609 --> 00:45:11,440 Any of it. 1779 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,346 There was no high profile 1780 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,346 State Department job 1781 00:45:13,380 --> 00:45:17,117 in Washington, D.C., 1782 00:45:13,380 --> 00:45:17,117 no travel aboard Air Force Two 1783 00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:20,120 with the Vice President, 1784 00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:20,120 no undisclosed locations. 1785 00:45:20,153 --> 00:45:22,856 They were all 1786 00:45:20,153 --> 00:45:22,856 the fantastic stories 1787 00:45:22,889 --> 00:45:25,258 of two sophisticated 1788 00:45:22,889 --> 00:45:25,258 con artists. 1789 00:45:25,291 --> 00:45:28,795 The con that wasn't just 1790 00:45:25,291 --> 00:45:28,795 about social prestige either, 1791 00:45:28,828 --> 00:45:31,231 it was about cash. 1792 00:45:31,264 --> 00:45:34,167 Chuck and his documents. 1793 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,503 - I knew we had a very 1794 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,503 substantial fraud case, 1795 00:45:36,536 --> 00:45:39,406 because those documents 1796 00:45:36,536 --> 00:45:39,406 in particular were used 1797 00:45:39,439 --> 00:45:41,975 to get benefit money from 1798 00:45:39,439 --> 00:45:41,975 the VA and Social Security, 1799 00:45:42,750 --> 00:45:46,813 as-as source documents that gave 1800 00:45:42,750 --> 00:45:46,813 legitimacy to his claim. 1801 00:45:46,846 --> 00:45:49,215 - Chuck was claiming thousands 1802 00:45:46,846 --> 00:45:49,215 of dollars a month 1803 00:45:49,249 --> 00:45:50,850 in disability payments. 1804 00:45:50,884 --> 00:45:52,552 And then, look at this. 1805 00:45:52,585 --> 00:45:55,855 It looked like Martha 1806 00:45:52,585 --> 00:45:55,855 Ann was helping Chuck. 1807 00:45:55,889 --> 00:45:59,693 For example, on statements 1808 00:45:55,889 --> 00:45:59,693 she signed supporting 1809 00:45:59,726 --> 00:46:02,328 Chuck's claim for 1810 00:45:59,726 --> 00:46:02,328 100% disability. 1811 00:46:02,362 --> 00:46:04,864 - She claimed that 1812 00:46:02,362 --> 00:46:04,864 he was homebound 1813 00:46:04,898 --> 00:46:07,330 and he could not 1814 00:46:04,898 --> 00:46:07,330 take care of himself. 1815 00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:09,602 He would not be able 1816 00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:09,602 to feed himself, 1817 00:46:09,636 --> 00:46:11,471 he-he wouldn't bathe, 1818 00:46:11,504 --> 00:46:14,607 he would just be wandering 1819 00:46:11,504 --> 00:46:14,607 around the house aimlessly. 1820 00:46:14,641 --> 00:46:16,876 - The guy's in bad shape? 1821 00:46:14,641 --> 00:46:16,876 - Really bad shape. 1822 00:46:16,910 --> 00:46:18,278 He should be getting 1823 00:46:16,910 --> 00:46:18,278 more money from the VA 1824 00:46:18,311 --> 00:46:20,280 than what they're 1825 00:46:18,311 --> 00:46:20,280 paying him. 1826 00:46:20,313 --> 00:46:23,450 - It looked to Nate like 1827 00:46:20,313 --> 00:46:23,450 he had uncovered a major scam. 1828 00:46:23,483 --> 00:46:26,353 And if Chuck was 1829 00:46:23,483 --> 00:46:26,353 scamming the V.A., 1830 00:46:26,386 --> 00:46:28,788 what was Martha Ann 1831 00:46:26,386 --> 00:46:28,788 up to? 1832 00:46:28,822 --> 00:46:32,659 Nate ran her name, 1833 00:46:28,822 --> 00:46:32,659 and what do you know, 1834 00:46:32,692 --> 00:46:36,629 Martha Ann was getting 1835 00:46:32,692 --> 00:46:36,629 Social Security disability 1836 00:46:32,692 --> 00:46:36,629 payments herself. 1837 00:46:37,970 --> 00:46:40,100 - Because of, uh, she 1838 00:46:37,970 --> 00:46:40,100 claimed to have, uh, 1839 00:46:40,133 --> 00:46:41,835 back issues where 1840 00:46:40,133 --> 00:46:41,835 she couldn't walk, 1841 00:46:41,868 --> 00:46:43,136 she was wheelchair bound. 1842 00:46:43,169 --> 00:46:45,205 - And he found out, 1843 00:46:43,169 --> 00:46:45,205 that while Martha Ann 1844 00:46:45,238 --> 00:46:48,274 was entitled to some 1845 00:46:45,238 --> 00:46:48,274 of her dead husband's benefits, 1846 00:46:48,308 --> 00:46:51,770 she was claiming 1847 00:46:48,308 --> 00:46:51,770 a lot more. 1848 00:46:51,770 --> 00:46:53,313 Together, Martha Ann 1849 00:46:51,770 --> 00:46:53,313 and Chuck were bilking 1850 00:46:53,346 --> 00:46:55,982 the government for 1851 00:46:53,346 --> 00:46:55,982 about $10,000 a month. 1852 00:46:56,820 --> 00:46:58,585 Nate wanted 1853 00:46:56,820 --> 00:46:58,585 Martha Ann and Chuck, 1854 00:46:58,618 --> 00:47:00,787 or Charles as his name 1855 00:46:58,618 --> 00:47:00,787 appeared in the records, 1856 00:47:00,820 --> 00:47:02,222 to be charged with fraud. 1857 00:47:02,255 --> 00:47:04,257 But first, 1858 00:47:02,255 --> 00:47:04,257 he needed proof 1859 00:47:04,290 --> 00:47:06,393 they were lying about 1860 00:47:04,290 --> 00:47:06,393 being disabled. 1861 00:47:06,426 --> 00:47:07,861 So... 1862 00:47:07,894 --> 00:47:11,631 - We started doing surveillance 1863 00:47:07,894 --> 00:47:11,631 on-on Charles and Martha Ann. 1864 00:47:11,664 --> 00:47:14,100 - Nate and fellow investigators 1865 00:47:11,664 --> 00:47:14,100 got into the back 1866 00:47:14,134 --> 00:47:16,403 of a surveillance van 1867 00:47:14,134 --> 00:47:16,403 with their video camera. 1868 00:47:16,436 --> 00:47:18,271 And they waited. 1869 00:47:18,304 --> 00:47:22,175 - We had several agents all 1870 00:47:18,304 --> 00:47:22,175 participating in surveillance. 1871 00:47:22,208 --> 00:47:25,445 - And it wasn't long 1872 00:47:22,208 --> 00:47:25,445 before Martha Ann and Chuck 1873 00:47:25,478 --> 00:47:27,814 appeared outside 1874 00:47:25,478 --> 00:47:27,814 their home. 1875 00:47:27,847 --> 00:47:32,520 Here they are, 1876 00:47:27,847 --> 00:47:32,520 supposedly disabled people, 1877 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,655 but by the look of it, 1878 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,655 perfectly fit. 1879 00:47:35,689 --> 00:47:38,958 - Uh, we'd observe them doing 1880 00:47:35,689 --> 00:47:38,958 hours and hours of yard work 1881 00:47:39,590 --> 00:47:40,360 outside their home. 1882 00:47:40,393 --> 00:47:41,928 We would-- 1883 00:47:40,393 --> 00:47:41,928 - Strenuous stuff? 1884 00:47:41,961 --> 00:47:44,497 - Yes, very strenuous stuff 1885 00:47:41,961 --> 00:47:44,497 for hours at a time 1886 00:47:44,531 --> 00:47:46,800 at their Knoxville house. 1887 00:47:46,833 --> 00:47:50,537 Uh, watched them pressure 1888 00:47:46,833 --> 00:47:50,537 washing their driveway 1889 00:47:50,570 --> 00:47:53,206 and their house 1890 00:47:50,570 --> 00:47:53,206 and clearing brush. 1891 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:54,641 - Bending over. 1892 00:47:54,674 --> 00:47:56,309 No sign of back trouble. 1893 00:47:56,343 --> 00:47:57,777 Lifting heavy objects. 1894 00:47:57,811 --> 00:48:00,146 But look at this. 1895 00:48:00,180 --> 00:48:02,649 Here they are, arriving 1896 00:48:00,180 --> 00:48:02,649 at the VA for one 1897 00:48:02,682 --> 00:48:04,884 of Chuck's 1898 00:48:02,682 --> 00:48:04,884 regular assessments. 1899 00:48:04,918 --> 00:48:07,354 You assume that their demeanor 1900 00:48:04,918 --> 00:48:07,354 was gonna change anyway? 1901 00:48:07,387 --> 00:48:09,723 - Well, we quickly found out 1902 00:48:07,387 --> 00:48:09,723 that that was the case. 1903 00:48:09,756 --> 00:48:12,692 - Martha Ann lifts 1904 00:48:09,756 --> 00:48:12,692 a heavy wheelchair 1905 00:48:09,756 --> 00:48:12,692 out of the car. 1906 00:48:12,726 --> 00:48:14,461 Chuck gets in. 1907 00:48:14,494 --> 00:48:16,329 She wheels him into 1908 00:48:14,494 --> 00:48:16,329 the VA center, 1909 00:48:16,363 --> 00:48:20,133 a picture that might wring pity 1910 00:48:16,363 --> 00:48:20,133 from even the hardest heart. 1911 00:48:20,166 --> 00:48:23,360 Sometimes when they 1912 00:48:20,166 --> 00:48:23,360 followed Martha Ann. 1913 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:24,804 - She was moving out 1914 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:24,804 pretty good to where you would 1915 00:48:24,838 --> 00:48:27,730 almost break a sweat trying 1916 00:48:24,838 --> 00:48:27,730 to keep up with her. 1917 00:48:27,107 --> 00:48:29,776 - And when Martha Ann 1918 00:48:27,107 --> 00:48:29,776 had her appointments, 1919 00:48:29,809 --> 00:48:32,579 she and Chuck would 1920 00:48:29,809 --> 00:48:32,579 switch positions. 1921 00:48:32,612 --> 00:48:34,447 - So it actually got 1922 00:48:32,612 --> 00:48:34,447 to be kind of humorous. 1923 00:48:34,481 --> 00:48:37,500 - But the couple had 1924 00:48:34,481 --> 00:48:37,500 only one wheelchair. 1925 00:48:37,830 --> 00:48:40,854 So Nate got 1926 00:48:37,830 --> 00:48:40,854 to thinking, and... 1927 00:48:40,887 --> 00:48:42,555 - Here's how Dr. Seuss 1928 00:48:40,887 --> 00:48:42,555 would write it: 1929 00:48:42,589 --> 00:48:45,580 And then Nate 1930 00:48:42,589 --> 00:48:45,580 got an idea. 1931 00:48:45,580 --> 00:48:48,661 A wonderful, devious idea. 1932 00:48:48,695 --> 00:48:50,497 That's true in 1933 00:48:48,695 --> 00:48:50,497 a way, isn't it? 1934 00:48:50,530 --> 00:48:51,431 - Yes. 1935 00:48:51,464 --> 00:48:53,800 - What if Nate 1936 00:48:51,464 --> 00:48:53,800 arranged the schedules 1937 00:48:53,833 --> 00:48:56,703 so that Martha Ann and Chuck 1938 00:48:53,833 --> 00:48:56,703 had their appointments 1939 00:48:56,736 --> 00:48:59,720 at the very same time? 1940 00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:01,374 Who would get 1941 00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:01,374 in the wheelchair then, 1942 00:49:01,408 --> 00:49:04,344 he wondered. 1943 00:49:04,377 --> 00:49:06,346 What happened? 1944 00:49:07,881 --> 00:49:10,617 - A conniving couple 1945 00:49:07,881 --> 00:49:10,617 caught in a trap. 1946 00:49:10,650 --> 00:49:12,652 - This can't be true. 1947 00:49:24,497 --> 00:49:27,467 - VA investigator, 1948 00:49:24,497 --> 00:49:27,467 Nate Landkammer, 1949 00:49:27,867 --> 00:49:29,703 had set a trap. 1950 00:49:29,736 --> 00:49:33,139 He knew Martha Ann and Chuck 1951 00:49:29,736 --> 00:49:33,139 had just one wheelchair 1952 00:49:33,173 --> 00:49:35,408 as they faked disability. 1953 00:49:35,442 --> 00:49:37,610 So he set up 1954 00:49:35,442 --> 00:49:37,610 appointments for them 1955 00:49:37,644 --> 00:49:41,681 at the Social Security facility 1956 00:49:37,644 --> 00:49:41,681 at the same time. 1957 00:49:41,715 --> 00:49:45,885 - So they arrived at 1958 00:49:41,715 --> 00:49:45,885 the facility, um, and then, 1959 00:49:45,919 --> 00:49:48,188 as we suspected, they only 1960 00:49:45,919 --> 00:49:48,188 had one wheelchair. 1961 00:49:48,221 --> 00:49:50,290 So, Charles, instead 1962 00:49:48,221 --> 00:49:50,290 of using a wheelchair, 1963 00:49:50,323 --> 00:49:53,593 he had a walker, 1964 00:49:50,323 --> 00:49:53,593 uh, and a cane. 1965 00:49:53,626 --> 00:49:54,861 - A walker and a cane? 1966 00:49:54,894 --> 00:49:56,162 - A walker 1967 00:49:54,894 --> 00:49:56,162 and a cane both. 1968 00:49:56,196 --> 00:49:57,897 - And a knee brace. 1969 00:49:57,931 --> 00:49:59,899 - Stilt leg? 1970 00:49:57,931 --> 00:49:59,899 - Stilt legged. 1971 00:50:00,660 --> 00:50:03,303 And then he was toting 1972 00:50:00,660 --> 00:50:03,303 an oxygen tank, as well. 1973 00:50:03,336 --> 00:50:05,505 - As Chuck fumbled 1974 00:50:03,336 --> 00:50:05,505 his way inside, 1975 00:50:05,538 --> 00:50:08,274 Nate and his agents 1976 00:50:05,538 --> 00:50:08,274 were waiting. 1977 00:50:08,308 --> 00:50:09,642 Busted. 1978 00:50:09,676 --> 00:50:11,511 - I interviewed Charles. 1979 00:50:11,544 --> 00:50:12,545 Um, we pulled him 1980 00:50:11,544 --> 00:50:12,545 into an office. 1981 00:50:12,579 --> 00:50:14,948 And then Martha Ann 1982 00:50:12,579 --> 00:50:14,948 was being questioned 1983 00:50:14,981 --> 00:50:17,784 by another VA OIG agent 1984 00:50:17,817 --> 00:50:20,987 and a Social Security 1985 00:50:17,817 --> 00:50:20,987 Administration OIG agent. 1986 00:50:21,210 --> 00:50:23,523 - Martha Ann 1987 00:50:21,210 --> 00:50:23,523 and Chuck Kaczmarczyk 1988 00:50:23,556 --> 00:50:25,125 had been found out. 1989 00:50:25,158 --> 00:50:29,763 Chuck was no decorated hero 1990 00:50:25,158 --> 00:50:29,763 and never once seen combat. 1991 00:50:29,796 --> 00:50:32,832 No Silver Stars, 1992 00:50:29,796 --> 00:50:32,832 no Purple Hearts. 1993 00:50:32,866 --> 00:50:34,934 Those ribbons, all fake. 1994 00:50:34,968 --> 00:50:38,505 And Martha Ann had never walked 1995 00:50:34,968 --> 00:50:38,505 the hallways of the Pentagon 1996 00:50:38,538 --> 00:50:41,741 as a marine colonel, much less 1997 00:50:38,538 --> 00:50:41,741 been in the 9/11 attack 1998 00:50:41,775 --> 00:50:44,440 or flown on 1999 00:50:41,775 --> 00:50:44,440 Air Force Two. 2000 00:50:44,770 --> 00:50:47,414 Confronted with the evidence, 2001 00:50:44,770 --> 00:50:47,414 they confessed to perpetuating 2002 00:50:47,447 --> 00:50:51,384 a complex and massive fraud 2003 00:50:47,447 --> 00:50:51,384 and fake disability claims. 2004 00:50:51,418 --> 00:50:53,553 - Had you or your partners 2005 00:50:51,418 --> 00:50:53,553 in the investigation 2006 00:50:53,586 --> 00:50:55,288 ever encountered the people 2007 00:50:55,321 --> 00:50:59,392 who were so 2008 00:50:55,321 --> 00:50:59,392 complexly fraudulent? 2009 00:50:59,426 --> 00:51:00,927 - I don't think I'll work 2010 00:50:59,426 --> 00:51:00,927 a case like this again 2011 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,662 in my career. 2012 00:51:02,696 --> 00:51:07,334 - But the really sinister 2013 00:51:02,696 --> 00:51:07,334 stuff was yet to unfold, 2014 00:51:07,367 --> 00:51:09,202 because family and friends 2015 00:51:07,367 --> 00:51:09,202 were only just finding out 2016 00:51:09,235 --> 00:51:10,470 about the fraud. 2017 00:51:10,503 --> 00:51:13,940 In the summer of 2012 over 2018 00:51:10,503 --> 00:51:13,940 early morning coffee, 2019 00:51:13,973 --> 00:51:16,209 Martha Ann's best friend, 2020 00:51:13,973 --> 00:51:16,209 Debbie Hartman, 2021 00:51:16,242 --> 00:51:18,545 was reading her newspaper. 2022 00:51:18,578 --> 00:51:22,582 - And I'm thinking to myself, 2023 00:51:18,578 --> 00:51:22,582 "This can't be true. 2024 00:51:22,615 --> 00:51:24,751 "This can't be true." 2025 00:51:24,784 --> 00:51:28,555 So I start yelling at the top 2026 00:51:24,784 --> 00:51:28,555 of my lungs, "Jim, get up! 2027 00:51:28,588 --> 00:51:30,290 "You've got to 2028 00:51:28,588 --> 00:51:30,290 come see this!" 2029 00:51:30,323 --> 00:51:32,759 Debbie's husband, Jim, 2030 00:51:30,323 --> 00:51:32,759 is a Marine veteran. 2031 00:51:32,792 --> 00:51:36,429 Neither he nor Debbie could 2032 00:51:32,792 --> 00:51:36,429 believe what they were reading. 2033 00:51:36,463 --> 00:51:39,165 - Fooled 2034 00:51:36,463 --> 00:51:39,165 the federal government, 2035 00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:41,768 stole money 2036 00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:41,768 from our veterans. 2037 00:51:41,801 --> 00:51:43,737 - Is it the money 2038 00:51:41,801 --> 00:51:43,737 that mattered, or the-- 2039 00:51:43,770 --> 00:51:44,971 - Oh, no. 2040 00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:47,307 It was the fact that they 2041 00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:47,307 took it out of veterans' pockets 2042 00:51:47,340 --> 00:51:49,943 that need it. 2043 00:51:49,976 --> 00:51:54,914 That's-that just sticks 2044 00:51:49,976 --> 00:51:54,914 in my craw. 2045 00:51:54,948 --> 00:51:56,282 That hurts. 2046 00:51:56,316 --> 00:51:59,152 - It must be quite something 2047 00:51:56,316 --> 00:51:59,152 to know that this woman, 2048 00:51:59,185 --> 00:52:03,560 who was your best friend, 2049 00:51:59,185 --> 00:52:03,560 hid herself from you 2050 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,525 and conned you 2051 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,525 all these years. 2052 00:52:05,558 --> 00:52:07,927 - Absolutely. 2053 00:52:07,961 --> 00:52:10,397 Took me for 2054 00:52:07,961 --> 00:52:10,397 a complete sucker. 2055 00:52:10,430 --> 00:52:12,232 - Chuck, too. 2056 00:52:12,265 --> 00:52:16,690 - He would go and present 2057 00:52:12,265 --> 00:52:16,690 the flags to a widow of a-- 2058 00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:18,738 of a veteran 2059 00:52:16,690 --> 00:52:18,738 that lost his life. 2060 00:52:18,772 --> 00:52:20,507 That's-that's cruel. 2061 00:52:20,540 --> 00:52:24,944 The people that he took in 2062 00:52:20,540 --> 00:52:24,944 under that don't deserve that. 2063 00:52:24,978 --> 00:52:28,348 - And it wasn't long before 2064 00:52:24,978 --> 00:52:28,348 Sean and Jen were reading online 2065 00:52:28,381 --> 00:52:31,918 in disbelief about 2066 00:52:28,381 --> 00:52:31,918 Sean's own mother, Martha Ann, 2067 00:52:31,951 --> 00:52:35,422 caught in an outrageous 2068 00:52:31,951 --> 00:52:35,422 fraud with Chuck. 2069 00:52:35,455 --> 00:52:37,257 - And we found out that 2070 00:52:35,455 --> 00:52:37,257 they were arrested 2071 00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:39,926 on eight federal indictments. 2072 00:52:39,959 --> 00:52:40,860 - That's how 2073 00:52:39,959 --> 00:52:40,860 you found out? 2074 00:52:40,894 --> 00:52:42,662 - That is how 2075 00:52:40,894 --> 00:52:42,662 we found out. 2076 00:52:42,696 --> 00:52:43,363 We had no idea. 2077 00:52:43,396 --> 00:52:44,364 - It made your heart stop. 2078 00:52:44,397 --> 00:52:46,933 It was heart wrenching. 2079 00:52:44,397 --> 00:52:46,933 - Very overwhelming. 2080 00:52:46,966 --> 00:52:50,303 - Martha Ann stole 2081 00:52:46,966 --> 00:52:50,303 her dead husband's valor. 2082 00:52:50,337 --> 00:52:52,572 - My Mom never served 2083 00:52:50,337 --> 00:52:52,572 a single day 2084 00:52:52,605 --> 00:52:55,575 in any armed services unit. 2085 00:52:55,608 --> 00:52:58,278 She assumed Bob's Purple Heart. 2086 00:52:55,608 --> 00:52:58,278 - Yeah, she did. 2087 00:52:58,311 --> 00:53:02,215 - And told these veterans groups 2088 00:52:58,311 --> 00:53:02,215 that that was her Purple Heart 2089 00:53:02,248 --> 00:53:07,530 that she received in 2090 00:53:02,248 --> 00:53:07,530 the 9/11 Pentagon attack. 2091 00:53:07,530 --> 00:53:12,920 - By early 2013, Martha Ann 2092 00:53:07,530 --> 00:53:12,920 and Chuck were sentenced. 2093 00:53:12,125 --> 00:53:13,893 - Charles got 2094 00:53:12,125 --> 00:53:13,893 thirty months federal, 2095 00:53:13,927 --> 00:53:15,962 and then Martha Ann 2096 00:53:13,927 --> 00:53:15,962 got twenty. 2097 00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:18,598 - They'd spent most 2098 00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:18,598 of their ill gotten gains, 2099 00:53:18,631 --> 00:53:19,532 of course. 2100 00:53:19,566 --> 00:53:21,668 So before she began 2101 00:53:19,566 --> 00:53:21,668 her prison sentence, 2102 00:53:21,701 --> 00:53:25,438 Martha Ann prepared to sell 2103 00:53:21,701 --> 00:53:25,438 the house for restitution. 2104 00:53:25,472 --> 00:53:30,210 - She, um, started, you know, 2105 00:53:25,472 --> 00:53:30,210 boxing up all of her belongings 2106 00:53:30,243 --> 00:53:34,800 and selling things 2107 00:53:30,243 --> 00:53:34,800 and closing up the house. 2108 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,718 - But Martha Ann was 2109 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,718 a notorious pack rat. 2110 00:53:38,752 --> 00:53:40,887 She had kept everything. 2111 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,957 Trunks full of clothes, 2112 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,957 thousands of pages 2113 00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:46,826 of receipts, 2114 00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:46,826 contracts, documents. 2115 00:53:46,860 --> 00:53:48,895 So what did she do? 2116 00:53:48,928 --> 00:53:51,197 She gave them 2117 00:53:48,928 --> 00:53:51,197 to her son, Sean, 2118 00:53:51,231 --> 00:53:53,633 and his wife, Jen, 2119 00:53:51,231 --> 00:53:53,633 for safekeeping. 2120 00:53:53,667 --> 00:53:56,469 - If she asked me 2121 00:53:53,667 --> 00:53:56,469 to do something, I will do it. 2122 00:53:56,503 --> 00:53:59,539 - Well, and in a way, I suppose 2123 00:53:56,503 --> 00:53:59,539 if she gave things to you, 2124 00:53:59,572 --> 00:54:02,475 then the feds or 2125 00:53:59,572 --> 00:54:02,475 the other investigative agencies 2126 00:54:02,509 --> 00:54:04,177 maybe wouldn't 2127 00:54:02,509 --> 00:54:04,177 have access to them? 2128 00:54:04,210 --> 00:54:06,460 - Well, yes. 2129 00:54:04,210 --> 00:54:06,460 - Right. 2130 00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:08,181 - But when those boxes 2131 00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:08,181 of records arrived, 2132 00:54:08,214 --> 00:54:13,530 Sean and Jen dived in ravenously 2133 00:54:08,214 --> 00:54:13,530 to see what they could uncover. 2134 00:54:13,860 --> 00:54:14,587 - Who keeps all 2135 00:54:13,860 --> 00:54:14,587 those documents? 2136 00:54:14,621 --> 00:54:15,755 - Thirty thousand. 2137 00:54:15,789 --> 00:54:17,557 - Thirty Thousand? 2138 00:54:15,789 --> 00:54:17,557 - Thirty thousand. 2139 00:54:17,590 --> 00:54:19,192 - That must've been 2140 00:54:17,590 --> 00:54:19,192 some job going through 2141 00:54:19,225 --> 00:54:20,600 all of this stuff? 2142 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,228 - It was overwhelming. 2143 00:54:22,262 --> 00:54:24,364 Um, it was. 2144 00:54:24,397 --> 00:54:28,680 - I did feel conflicted 2145 00:54:24,397 --> 00:54:28,680 about digging into 2146 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:29,869 my Mom's affairs, 2147 00:54:29,903 --> 00:54:32,405 but I had to 2148 00:54:29,903 --> 00:54:32,405 know the truth. 2149 00:54:32,439 --> 00:54:35,342 - Then, Sean turned on 2150 00:54:32,439 --> 00:54:35,342 one of the computers 2151 00:54:35,375 --> 00:54:37,610 his mom had sent 2152 00:54:35,375 --> 00:54:37,610 for safekeeping. 2153 00:54:37,644 --> 00:54:39,579 He intended their kids 2154 00:54:37,644 --> 00:54:39,579 to use it, 2155 00:54:39,612 --> 00:54:42,415 so he wanted to be sure 2156 00:54:39,612 --> 00:54:42,415 it was clean. 2157 00:54:42,449 --> 00:54:44,484 He checked the trash bin 2158 00:54:44,517 --> 00:54:47,620 and couldn't believe 2159 00:54:44,517 --> 00:54:47,620 what he saw. 2160 00:54:47,654 --> 00:54:49,789 - And there were photos 2161 00:54:49,823 --> 00:54:53,930 of my stepdad, 2162 00:54:49,823 --> 00:54:53,930 Bob, deceased. 2163 00:54:53,930 --> 00:54:54,961 - Dead? 2164 00:54:53,930 --> 00:54:54,961 - Dead. 2165 00:54:54,994 --> 00:54:58,980 There were many photos 2166 00:54:54,994 --> 00:54:58,980 in there. 2167 00:54:58,131 --> 00:55:01,670 - They were photos of 2168 00:54:58,131 --> 00:55:01,670 Bob McClancy lying dead 2169 00:55:01,101 --> 00:55:03,937 in his recliner in 2006. 2170 00:55:04,370 --> 00:55:05,405 - What was it like 2171 00:55:04,370 --> 00:55:05,405 to see those pictures? 2172 00:55:05,438 --> 00:55:06,706 - Disturbing. 2173 00:55:06,740 --> 00:55:08,108 - Here were the pictures 2174 00:55:06,740 --> 00:55:08,108 that told 2175 00:55:08,141 --> 00:55:12,278 an entirely different story 2176 00:55:08,141 --> 00:55:12,278 to what Sean and Jen knew. 2177 00:55:12,312 --> 00:55:15,749 - In one picture, Bob would 2178 00:55:12,312 --> 00:55:15,749 have a pistol in one hand 2179 00:55:15,782 --> 00:55:17,717 and a bottle 2180 00:55:15,782 --> 00:55:17,717 of pills in the other. 2181 00:55:17,751 --> 00:55:20,530 In another picture, 2182 00:55:17,751 --> 00:55:20,530 Bob would just have 2183 00:55:20,860 --> 00:55:21,888 a bottle of pills 2184 00:55:21,921 --> 00:55:23,623 and nothing 2185 00:55:21,921 --> 00:55:23,623 in the other hand. 2186 00:55:23,656 --> 00:55:25,658 - And it was odd the way 2187 00:55:23,656 --> 00:55:25,658 he was in the chair. 2188 00:55:25,692 --> 00:55:28,661 The way his leg was placed, 2189 00:55:25,692 --> 00:55:28,661 looking back at that, 2190 00:55:28,695 --> 00:55:32,365 I think you could tell 2191 00:55:28,695 --> 00:55:32,365 that was body manipulation. 2192 00:55:32,399 --> 00:55:34,734 - The pictures didn't 2193 00:55:32,399 --> 00:55:34,734 appear to be police photos 2194 00:55:34,768 --> 00:55:36,670 because they were all 2195 00:55:34,768 --> 00:55:36,670 apparently taken 2196 00:55:36,703 --> 00:55:39,539 before any police 2197 00:55:36,703 --> 00:55:39,539 arrived on the scene. 2198 00:55:39,572 --> 00:55:40,774 - So you call the cops? 2199 00:55:40,807 --> 00:55:42,709 - Right away. 2200 00:55:42,742 --> 00:55:46,379 - Sean, conflicted, was suddenly 2201 00:55:42,742 --> 00:55:46,379 faced with the prospect 2202 00:55:46,413 --> 00:55:49,649 he may be implicating 2203 00:55:46,413 --> 00:55:49,649 his own mom. 2204 00:55:49,683 --> 00:55:52,619 And so torn, he called 2205 00:55:49,683 --> 00:55:52,619 Nate, the VA investigator, 2206 00:55:52,652 --> 00:55:53,720 and began to tell him 2207 00:55:53,753 --> 00:55:57,257 all about Bob McClancy's 2208 00:55:53,753 --> 00:55:57,257 death in 2006. 2209 00:55:57,290 --> 00:55:59,225 - He said, "I just wanna 2210 00:55:57,290 --> 00:55:59,225 talk to you guys about this 2211 00:55:59,259 --> 00:56:00,326 and get it off my chest, 2212 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:01,661 'cause it's really 2213 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:01,661 been bothering me. 2214 00:56:01,695 --> 00:56:03,530 And if there's 2215 00:56:01,695 --> 00:56:03,530 nothing to it, great. 2216 00:56:03,563 --> 00:56:06,660 But if there is, I think 2217 00:56:03,563 --> 00:56:06,660 it needs to be investigated." 2218 00:56:06,990 --> 00:56:07,467 - It's like pulling 2219 00:56:06,990 --> 00:56:07,467 a string, isn't it? 2220 00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:08,468 - Yes. 2221 00:56:08,501 --> 00:56:10,937 - And now the string 2222 00:56:08,501 --> 00:56:10,937 led back in time, 2223 00:56:11,370 --> 00:56:13,840 six years back to 2224 00:56:11,370 --> 00:56:13,840 that dismal afternoon 2225 00:56:13,873 --> 00:56:17,143 in the Tennessee Hills 2226 00:56:13,873 --> 00:56:17,143 when Chuck called 911 2227 00:56:17,177 --> 00:56:19,179 to report a suicide. 2228 00:56:19,212 --> 00:56:23,750 - It was just part of 2229 00:56:19,212 --> 00:56:23,750 a very complex, evil scheme. 2230 00:56:23,783 --> 00:56:25,385 You know, that was 2231 00:56:23,783 --> 00:56:25,385 the sense that I got 2232 00:56:25,418 --> 00:56:28,154 when I first saw 2233 00:56:25,418 --> 00:56:28,154 the photographs. 2234 00:56:28,188 --> 00:56:32,792 - So maybe this wasn't, 2235 00:56:28,188 --> 00:56:32,792 after all, just a fraud case. 2236 00:56:32,826 --> 00:56:37,130 Maybe, he thought, someone 2237 00:56:32,826 --> 00:56:37,130 had gotten away with murder. 2238 00:56:39,566 --> 00:56:40,967 - Coming up... 2239 00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:43,203 the old suspicions 2240 00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:43,203 about Chuck. 2241 00:56:43,236 --> 00:56:45,238 What had happened 2242 00:56:43,236 --> 00:56:45,238 to the investigation 2243 00:56:45,271 --> 00:56:47,107 all those years ago? 2244 00:56:47,140 --> 00:56:48,241 - It was devastating. 2245 00:56:48,274 --> 00:56:49,242 I felt guilty about it. 2246 00:56:49,275 --> 00:56:51,177 - Like you'd blown it? 2247 00:56:49,275 --> 00:56:51,177 - Yes. 2248 00:57:04,224 --> 00:57:05,558 - VA special agent 2249 00:57:04,224 --> 00:57:05,558 Nate Landkammer 2250 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:07,794 had Martha Ann McClancy 2251 00:57:07,827 --> 00:57:10,397 and Chuck Kaczmarczyk 2252 00:57:07,827 --> 00:57:10,397 for fraud, 2253 00:57:10,430 --> 00:57:12,365 but his investigation 2254 00:57:10,430 --> 00:57:12,365 was about to take 2255 00:57:12,399 --> 00:57:15,702 a sudden turn... 2256 00:57:12,399 --> 00:57:15,702 to evil. 2257 00:57:15,735 --> 00:57:17,704 He had learned about 2258 00:57:15,735 --> 00:57:17,704 the suspicious photos 2259 00:57:17,737 --> 00:57:19,873 Sean and Jen found 2260 00:57:17,737 --> 00:57:19,873 in the computer 2261 00:57:19,906 --> 00:57:21,541 Martha Ann had given him. 2262 00:57:21,574 --> 00:57:24,411 Pictures of Bob 2263 00:57:21,574 --> 00:57:24,411 lying dead. 2264 00:57:24,444 --> 00:57:26,646 - Sean contacted 2265 00:57:24,444 --> 00:57:26,646 the US Attorney and said, 2266 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:28,948 "I have some information 2267 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:28,948 that you might wanna know 2268 00:57:29,490 --> 00:57:30,950 "that may be helpful 2269 00:57:29,490 --> 00:57:30,950 to the investigation." 2270 00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:33,530 - There were a lot of 2271 00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:33,530 phone conversations 2272 00:57:33,530 --> 00:57:35,955 between Sean and Nate 2273 00:57:33,530 --> 00:57:35,955 and Nate and I. 2274 00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:38,591 - Nate learned there had 2275 00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:38,591 been an investigation 2276 00:57:38,625 --> 00:57:42,829 into Bob McClancy's death 2277 00:57:38,625 --> 00:57:42,829 six years earlier in 2006. 2278 00:57:42,862 --> 00:57:46,199 Remember, Detective Travis Jones 2279 00:57:42,862 --> 00:57:46,199 had been called to the house 2280 00:57:46,232 --> 00:57:48,635 after a 911 call 2281 00:57:46,232 --> 00:57:48,635 placed by Chuck? 2282 00:57:58,178 --> 00:57:59,679 - Back then, the detective 2283 00:57:58,178 --> 00:57:59,679 thought Chuck 2284 00:57:59,713 --> 00:58:01,314 was acting way too calm, 2285 00:58:01,348 --> 00:58:03,717 was avoiding CPR 2286 00:58:01,348 --> 00:58:03,717 on his best friend, 2287 00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:06,519 and was staging 2288 00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:06,519 that perhaps too convenient 2289 00:58:06,553 --> 00:58:09,189 do not resuscitate order. 2290 00:58:09,222 --> 00:58:11,358 And it turned out 2291 00:58:09,222 --> 00:58:11,358 the detective had good reason 2292 00:58:11,391 --> 00:58:14,527 to want to question Chuck 2293 00:58:11,391 --> 00:58:14,527 after he discovered 2294 00:58:14,561 --> 00:58:18,398 a digital camera 2295 00:58:14,561 --> 00:58:18,398 inside a backpack. 2296 00:58:18,431 --> 00:58:20,133 - Who found the camera? 2297 00:58:18,431 --> 00:58:20,133 - I did. 2298 00:58:20,166 --> 00:58:23,690 - Did you, like, assume 2299 00:58:20,166 --> 00:58:23,690 anything about its ownership 2300 00:58:23,103 --> 00:58:24,637 or anything like that? 2301 00:58:24,671 --> 00:58:25,872 - No, I just assumed 2302 00:58:24,671 --> 00:58:25,872 it belonged 2303 00:58:25,905 --> 00:58:28,408 to the residents there, 2304 00:58:25,905 --> 00:58:28,408 Mr. McClancy. 2305 00:58:28,441 --> 00:58:30,430 - Did you think 2306 00:58:28,441 --> 00:58:30,430 as you're opening it up, 2307 00:58:30,430 --> 00:58:30,944 "Hey, wait a minute, 2308 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:32,345 maybe I shouldn't be 2309 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:32,345 doing this", or... 2310 00:58:32,379 --> 00:58:34,414 - No, it never crossed 2311 00:58:32,379 --> 00:58:34,414 my mind at the time, 2312 00:58:34,447 --> 00:58:36,416 uh, because that was 2313 00:58:34,447 --> 00:58:36,416 standard practice. 2314 00:58:36,449 --> 00:58:39,386 - Hmm, on the assumption 2315 00:58:36,449 --> 00:58:39,386 that what? 2316 00:58:39,419 --> 00:58:40,820 That there's no need 2317 00:58:39,419 --> 00:58:40,820 to get a search warrant 2318 00:58:40,854 --> 00:58:42,655 for a dead guy's camera. 2319 00:58:42,689 --> 00:58:44,657 - Right. 2320 00:58:45,925 --> 00:58:50,630 - On the camera were pictures 2321 00:58:45,925 --> 00:58:50,630 of the deceased Bob McClancy. 2322 00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:52,932 His body positioned 2323 00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:52,932 differently 2324 00:58:52,966 --> 00:58:55,435 than the way 2325 00:58:52,966 --> 00:58:55,435 the police found him. 2326 00:58:55,468 --> 00:58:58,571 They were the same pictures Sean 2327 00:58:55,468 --> 00:58:58,571 later found on the computer, 2328 00:58:58,605 --> 00:59:02,750 some showing Bob McClancy 2329 00:58:58,605 --> 00:59:02,750 holding a revolver, 2330 00:59:02,108 --> 00:59:05,478 others the revolver 2331 00:59:02,108 --> 00:59:05,478 and the pill bottle. 2332 00:59:05,512 --> 00:59:07,480 - What did you think 2333 00:59:05,512 --> 00:59:07,480 when you saw that? 2334 00:59:07,514 --> 00:59:10,160 - Uh, that we had 2335 00:59:07,514 --> 00:59:10,160 a staged scene. 2336 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,184 - Maybe you have 2337 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,184 a staged scene, 2338 00:59:11,217 --> 00:59:12,352 maybe you've got 2339 00:59:11,217 --> 00:59:12,352 a crime here. 2340 00:59:12,385 --> 00:59:13,586 - Yes. 2341 00:59:13,620 --> 00:59:16,389 - That's when the detective 2342 00:59:13,620 --> 00:59:16,389 decided to question Chuck. 2343 00:59:16,423 --> 00:59:20,160 - We took him down to 2344 00:59:16,423 --> 00:59:20,160 the sheriff's office. 2345 00:59:20,193 --> 00:59:21,294 - At the sheriff's office, 2346 00:59:21,327 --> 00:59:23,960 confronted with 2347 00:59:21,327 --> 00:59:23,960 the photo evidence, 2348 00:59:23,129 --> 00:59:26,299 Chuck's story changed 2349 00:59:23,129 --> 00:59:26,299 dramatically. 2350 00:59:26,332 --> 00:59:27,734 His first statement 2351 00:59:26,332 --> 00:59:27,734 to the police had been 2352 00:59:27,767 --> 00:59:31,738 he arrived at the house 2353 00:59:27,767 --> 00:59:31,738 after Bob died and called 911. 2354 00:59:31,771 --> 00:59:34,607 Now, he was telling them 2355 00:59:31,771 --> 00:59:34,607 that when he arrived, 2356 00:59:34,641 --> 00:59:37,143 Bob wasn't quite dead 2357 00:59:37,177 --> 00:59:40,180 but was taking 2358 00:59:37,177 --> 00:59:40,180 his last gasps. 2359 00:59:40,213 --> 00:59:43,383 - He had come home, 2360 00:59:40,213 --> 00:59:43,383 uh, found Mr. McClancy, 2361 00:59:43,416 --> 00:59:45,652 said he was still alive 2362 00:59:45,685 --> 00:59:48,880 and he was 2363 00:59:45,685 --> 00:59:48,880 barely breathing. 2364 00:59:48,121 --> 00:59:49,356 - Chuck said 2365 00:59:48,121 --> 00:59:49,356 he was the one 2366 00:59:49,389 --> 00:59:51,491 who staged the scene 2367 00:59:49,389 --> 00:59:51,491 and took the photos 2368 00:59:51,524 --> 00:59:54,160 because he didn't know 2369 00:59:51,524 --> 00:59:54,160 Bob was going to die 2370 00:59:54,194 --> 00:59:56,429 and hoped that photos 2371 00:59:54,194 --> 00:59:56,429 of his friend's suffering 2372 00:59:56,463 --> 01:00:00,400 might help Bob leverage 2373 00:59:56,463 --> 01:00:00,400 more benefits from the VA. 2374 01:00:00,433 --> 01:00:03,336 - Did you suspect that he 2375 01:00:00,433 --> 01:00:03,336 killed his friend, Bob? 2376 01:00:03,370 --> 01:00:05,171 - That was a possibility. 2377 01:00:05,205 --> 01:00:07,407 - At the time, 2378 01:00:05,205 --> 01:00:07,407 Detective Jones believed 2379 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,477 he had at least 2380 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,477 a case of negligence. 2381 01:00:10,510 --> 01:00:12,645 - His negligence 2382 01:00:10,510 --> 01:00:12,645 caused his death. 2383 01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:14,481 That was the evidence 2384 01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:14,481 we had at the time. 2385 01:00:14,514 --> 01:00:16,716 - If he had, 2386 01:00:14,514 --> 01:00:16,716 uh, moved quicker 2387 01:00:16,750 --> 01:00:18,418 or called 911 sooner 2388 01:00:18,451 --> 01:00:20,687 or tried to do CPR 2389 01:00:18,451 --> 01:00:20,687 or something, 2390 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,222 his friend would 2391 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,222 still be alive? 2392 01:00:22,255 --> 01:00:26,493 - He, um, let him die 2393 01:00:22,255 --> 01:00:26,493 before he call-called 911. 2394 01:00:26,526 --> 01:00:28,828 - Chuck was charged with 2395 01:00:26,526 --> 01:00:28,828 tampering with evidence 2396 01:00:28,862 --> 01:00:30,397 and criminal negligence. 2397 01:00:30,430 --> 01:00:31,798 - So it must have 2398 01:00:30,430 --> 01:00:31,798 seemed like 2399 01:00:31,831 --> 01:00:33,733 you kind of had him 2400 01:00:31,831 --> 01:00:33,733 on that. 2401 01:00:33,767 --> 01:00:35,702 - That's what we thought. 2402 01:00:35,735 --> 01:00:38,405 - But that's not 2403 01:00:35,735 --> 01:00:38,405 what happened. 2404 01:00:38,438 --> 01:00:40,507 Before the case 2405 01:00:38,438 --> 01:00:40,507 could go to trial, 2406 01:00:40,540 --> 01:00:43,276 a judge ruled the photos 2407 01:00:40,540 --> 01:00:43,276 taken by Chuck 2408 01:00:43,309 --> 01:00:46,446 were not admissible 2409 01:00:43,309 --> 01:00:46,446 in a court of law. 2410 01:00:46,479 --> 01:00:47,614 Why? 2411 01:00:47,647 --> 01:00:50,550 The camera belonged 2412 01:00:47,647 --> 01:00:50,550 to Chuck, not Bob. 2413 01:00:50,583 --> 01:00:52,519 And Detective Jones had 2414 01:00:50,583 --> 01:00:52,519 gathered the photos 2415 01:00:52,552 --> 01:00:54,354 without a search warrant. 2416 01:00:54,387 --> 01:00:55,922 In the courtroom, 2417 01:00:54,387 --> 01:00:55,922 that was it. 2418 01:00:55,955 --> 01:00:59,590 The case against 2419 01:00:55,955 --> 01:00:59,590 Chuck Kaczmarczyk collapsed. 2420 01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:02,620 - Go back to that time 2421 01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:02,620 when you got that ruling 2422 01:01:02,620 --> 01:01:03,730 and it was basically 2423 01:01:02,620 --> 01:01:03,730 thrown out 2424 01:01:03,763 --> 01:01:06,399 and you weren't gonna 2425 01:01:03,763 --> 01:01:06,399 get the case at all. 2426 01:01:06,433 --> 01:01:08,401 What was that like 2427 01:01:06,433 --> 01:01:08,401 for you? 2428 01:01:08,435 --> 01:01:09,536 - It was devastating. 2429 01:01:09,569 --> 01:01:11,371 - Did you feel as if 2430 01:01:09,569 --> 01:01:11,371 you were responsible, or... 2431 01:01:11,404 --> 01:01:13,173 - I did, I did. 2432 01:01:11,404 --> 01:01:13,173 I felt guilty about. 2433 01:01:13,206 --> 01:01:15,141 - Like you'd blown it? 2434 01:01:13,206 --> 01:01:15,141 - Yes. 2435 01:01:15,175 --> 01:01:20,246 - Six years later in 2012, 2436 01:01:15,175 --> 01:01:20,246 Chuck was a convicted con man. 2437 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,315 And investigator, 2438 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,315 Nate Landkammer was looking 2439 01:01:22,349 --> 01:01:25,685 at the very same images 2440 01:01:22,349 --> 01:01:25,685 on the computer. 2441 01:01:25,719 --> 01:01:29,890 - I knew that the local, 2442 01:01:25,719 --> 01:01:29,890 um, sheriff's department 2443 01:01:29,890 --> 01:01:32,492 had some suspicions 2444 01:01:29,890 --> 01:01:32,492 that Chuck had done something 2445 01:01:32,525 --> 01:01:35,495 but really weren't able 2446 01:01:32,525 --> 01:01:35,495 to substantiate anything 2447 01:01:35,528 --> 01:01:38,765 through, you know, 2448 01:01:35,528 --> 01:01:38,765 charges being able to stick. 2449 01:01:38,798 --> 01:01:41,735 - But to Nate, 2450 01:01:38,798 --> 01:01:41,735 maybe Chuck was 2451 01:01:41,768 --> 01:01:46,600 up to his lying eyeballs 2452 01:01:41,768 --> 01:01:46,600 in Bob McClancy's death. 2453 01:01:46,106 --> 01:01:49,909 - It just really, really 2454 01:01:46,106 --> 01:01:49,909 gave you the sense of, 2455 01:01:49,943 --> 01:01:52,712 you know, whoever set this up 2456 01:01:49,943 --> 01:01:52,712 and whoever did this 2457 01:01:52,746 --> 01:01:56,383 and whoever took 2458 01:01:52,746 --> 01:01:56,383 these pictures was very evil. 2459 01:01:56,416 --> 01:01:58,685 - Chuck had taken 2460 01:01:56,416 --> 01:01:58,685 the pictures, 2461 01:01:58,718 --> 01:02:00,553 but what were they doing 2462 01:01:58,718 --> 01:02:00,553 on the computer 2463 01:02:00,587 --> 01:02:03,456 Sean got from 2464 01:02:00,587 --> 01:02:03,456 his mother, Martha Ann? 2465 01:02:03,490 --> 01:02:07,460 Then, Nate and the state 2466 01:02:03,490 --> 01:02:07,460 investigators who joined him, 2467 01:02:07,494 --> 01:02:09,529 came up with a plan. 2468 01:02:09,562 --> 01:02:12,499 They'd put Sean and Jen 2469 01:02:09,562 --> 01:02:12,499 on the spot. 2470 01:02:12,532 --> 01:02:16,690 They'd get Sean 2471 01:02:12,532 --> 01:02:16,690 to spy on his mom. 2472 01:02:16,690 --> 01:02:20,106 Sean was about to become 2473 01:02:16,690 --> 01:02:20,106 an undercover agent. 2474 01:02:22,375 --> 01:02:25,578 - A once loyal son 2475 01:02:22,375 --> 01:02:25,578 secretly records his mother 2476 01:02:25,612 --> 01:02:28,481 as he fishes for details 2477 01:02:25,612 --> 01:02:28,481 about Bob's death. 2478 01:02:28,515 --> 01:02:30,617 But what Martha Ann 2479 01:02:28,515 --> 01:02:30,617 would reveal 2480 01:02:30,650 --> 01:02:33,860 remained anyone's guess. 2481 01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:34,320 Coming up... 2482 01:02:34,354 --> 01:02:36,456 - I asked her 2483 01:02:34,354 --> 01:02:36,456 why the pictures were there. 2484 01:02:36,489 --> 01:02:39,159 - And she said, 2485 01:02:36,489 --> 01:02:39,159 "Photos of Bob?" 2486 01:02:51,104 --> 01:02:51,471 - Welcome back. 2487 01:02:52,439 --> 01:02:54,574 Martha Ann Kaczmarczyk 2488 01:02:52,439 --> 01:02:54,574 pleaded guilty to fraud 2489 01:02:54,607 --> 01:02:56,810 after stealing money 2490 01:02:54,607 --> 01:02:56,810 from the government 2491 01:02:56,843 --> 01:02:58,645 meant for military veterans. 2492 01:02:58,678 --> 01:03:02,480 But was she capable of 2493 01:02:58,678 --> 01:03:02,480 something even more depraved? 2494 01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,317 When photos of 2495 01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,317 her first husband's body 2496 01:03:04,351 --> 01:03:06,520 were found on her computer, 2497 01:03:06,860 --> 01:03:08,321 investigators wondered 2498 01:03:06,860 --> 01:03:08,321 if Martha Ann 2499 01:03:08,355 --> 01:03:10,290 knew more about 2500 01:03:08,355 --> 01:03:10,290 Bob McClancy's death 2501 01:03:10,323 --> 01:03:11,891 than she let on. 2502 01:03:11,925 --> 01:03:13,760 Now, they turned 2503 01:03:11,925 --> 01:03:13,760 to the one person 2504 01:03:13,793 --> 01:03:15,895 they believed 2505 01:03:13,793 --> 01:03:15,895 could find out. 2506 01:03:15,929 --> 01:03:17,397 Back to Keith Morrison 2507 01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:19,899 with "Secrets in 2508 01:03:17,430 --> 01:03:19,899 the Smoky Mountains". 2509 01:03:22,369 --> 01:03:24,604 - It should be noted 2510 01:03:22,369 --> 01:03:24,604 that Sean's relationship 2511 01:03:24,637 --> 01:03:29,109 with his mother, Martha Ann, 2512 01:03:24,637 --> 01:03:29,109 was never particularly warm. 2513 01:03:29,142 --> 01:03:32,846 Martha Ann wasn't exactly 2514 01:03:29,142 --> 01:03:32,846 the cuddly, protective type. 2515 01:03:33,713 --> 01:03:37,830 - I think I was more scared 2516 01:03:33,713 --> 01:03:37,830 of my Mom looking back. 2517 01:03:39,919 --> 01:03:41,488 - Remember, Sean 2518 01:03:39,919 --> 01:03:41,488 had been adopted 2519 01:03:41,521 --> 01:03:43,390 as an infant 2520 01:03:41,521 --> 01:03:43,390 by Martha Ann 2521 01:03:43,423 --> 01:03:45,291 and her first husband 2522 01:03:43,423 --> 01:03:45,291 in Florida. 2523 01:03:45,325 --> 01:03:47,994 He said his mom was strict 2524 01:03:45,325 --> 01:03:47,994 and quick to punish 2525 01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:50,563 if Sean crossed 2526 01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:50,563 her red lines. 2527 01:03:50,597 --> 01:03:52,365 - You knew that was it. 2528 01:03:52,399 --> 01:03:55,969 Your life was not 2529 01:03:52,399 --> 01:03:55,969 going to be as pleasant 2530 01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,238 for a period of time. 2531 01:03:58,271 --> 01:04:00,907 - What did you, um, think 2532 01:03:58,271 --> 01:04:00,907 when you saw her 2533 01:04:00,940 --> 01:04:02,575 treating Sean that way? 2534 01:04:02,609 --> 01:04:04,110 - It made me angry. 2535 01:04:04,144 --> 01:04:08,348 - Even so, Sean tried to 2536 01:04:04,144 --> 01:04:08,348 stay loyal to his mom. 2537 01:04:08,381 --> 01:04:10,350 But now he was about 2538 01:04:08,381 --> 01:04:10,350 to go against her 2539 01:04:10,383 --> 01:04:13,253 in a way he never 2540 01:04:10,383 --> 01:04:13,253 could have imagined. 2541 01:04:13,286 --> 01:04:15,822 He'd seen the photos 2542 01:04:13,286 --> 01:04:15,822 of Bob's dead body, 2543 01:04:15,855 --> 01:04:18,625 contacted the investigator, 2544 01:04:15,855 --> 01:04:18,625 Nate Landkammer, 2545 01:04:18,658 --> 01:04:20,794 and now he and Jen 2546 01:04:18,658 --> 01:04:20,794 were turning up 2547 01:04:20,827 --> 01:04:23,830 more evidence for 2548 01:04:20,827 --> 01:04:23,830 Nate's investigation. 2549 01:04:23,863 --> 01:04:26,433 - We were coming across 2550 01:04:23,863 --> 01:04:26,433 all of these, 2551 01:04:26,466 --> 01:04:30,170 what we would call 2552 01:04:26,466 --> 01:04:30,170 crazy, crazy documents. 2553 01:04:30,203 --> 01:04:32,372 We couldn't wrap 2554 01:04:30,203 --> 01:04:32,372 our brain around 'em. 2555 01:04:32,405 --> 01:04:34,974 - And one of those 2556 01:04:32,405 --> 01:04:34,974 mind boggling documents 2557 01:04:35,750 --> 01:04:37,510 was Bob McClancy's will. 2558 01:04:37,544 --> 01:04:39,913 Bob had been married 2559 01:04:37,544 --> 01:04:39,913 before he met Martha Ann 2560 01:04:39,946 --> 01:04:41,147 and had a daughter. 2561 01:04:41,181 --> 01:04:43,830 The daughter hadn't 2562 01:04:41,181 --> 01:04:43,830 seen Bob in years 2563 01:04:43,830 --> 01:04:45,352 and she was cut out 2564 01:04:43,830 --> 01:04:45,352 of Bob's will. 2565 01:04:45,385 --> 01:04:46,753 - He wanted nothing 2566 01:04:45,385 --> 01:04:46,753 to do with her. 2567 01:04:46,786 --> 01:04:48,722 And, "I don't want you 2568 01:04:46,786 --> 01:04:48,722 to know about my death. 2569 01:04:48,755 --> 01:04:53,460 "And I'm leaving you $1 2570 01:04:48,755 --> 01:04:53,460 of-of my estate." 2571 01:04:53,493 --> 01:04:56,563 - The wording seemed 2572 01:04:53,493 --> 01:04:56,563 especially harsh. 2573 01:04:56,596 --> 01:04:58,531 - I didn't know 2574 01:04:56,596 --> 01:04:58,531 Bob McClancy. 2575 01:04:58,565 --> 01:05:01,234 Most fathers would not write 2576 01:04:58,565 --> 01:05:01,234 something this cruel 2577 01:05:01,267 --> 01:05:03,103 to their-to their 2578 01:05:01,267 --> 01:05:03,103 only daughter. 2579 01:05:03,136 --> 01:05:05,739 I just realized that 2580 01:05:03,136 --> 01:05:05,739 this is just not adding up, 2581 01:05:05,772 --> 01:05:09,750 and it just was 2582 01:05:05,772 --> 01:05:09,750 very, very suspicious. 2583 01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:12,312 - Bob's sister, Kathy, 2584 01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:12,312 thought it was fishy, too. 2585 01:05:12,345 --> 01:05:14,114 - I know this wasn't 2586 01:05:12,345 --> 01:05:14,114 Bobby's will. 2587 01:05:14,147 --> 01:05:16,490 I even said that 2588 01:05:14,147 --> 01:05:16,490 to my daughters. 2589 01:05:16,490 --> 01:05:18,251 "Uncle Bobby would have 2590 01:05:16,490 --> 01:05:18,251 never put this in here." 2591 01:05:18,284 --> 01:05:19,886 - No. 2592 01:05:18,284 --> 01:05:19,886 - Never. 2593 01:05:21,721 --> 01:05:23,790 - Nate concluded 2594 01:05:21,721 --> 01:05:23,790 that Martha Ann, 2595 01:05:23,823 --> 01:05:27,360 the sole beneficiary, 2596 01:05:23,823 --> 01:05:27,360 had forged the will. 2597 01:05:27,394 --> 01:05:29,620 - It came from Martha Ann, 2598 01:05:27,394 --> 01:05:29,620 not from Bob. 2599 01:05:29,620 --> 01:05:30,330 - Came from-- 2600 01:05:29,620 --> 01:05:30,330 came from Martha Ann. 2601 01:05:30,363 --> 01:05:32,932 The will in particular 2602 01:05:30,363 --> 01:05:32,932 ended up being 2603 01:05:32,966 --> 01:05:36,169 a major part of 2604 01:05:32,966 --> 01:05:36,169 the investigation. 2605 01:05:36,202 --> 01:05:41,141 - And then, Nate discovered 2606 01:05:36,202 --> 01:05:41,141 a curious date, or dates: 2607 01:05:41,174 --> 01:05:43,543 Martha Ann's wedding 2608 01:05:41,174 --> 01:05:43,543 to Chuck. 2609 01:05:43,576 --> 01:05:46,790 - If you wait until 2610 01:05:43,576 --> 01:05:46,790 after you turn 57 2611 01:05:46,790 --> 01:05:48,415 and remarry then, 2612 01:05:46,790 --> 01:05:48,415 you can keep the benefits 2613 01:05:48,448 --> 01:05:49,883 for the rest of your life. 2614 01:05:49,916 --> 01:05:53,653 And she ended up marrying 2615 01:05:49,916 --> 01:05:53,653 Chuck in Las Vegas, Nevada, 2616 01:05:53,687 --> 01:05:56,389 one day after 2617 01:05:53,687 --> 01:05:56,389 her 57th birthday, 2618 01:05:56,423 --> 01:05:59,325 which allowed her 2619 01:05:56,423 --> 01:05:59,325 to keep the-the VA benefits 2620 01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:02,829 associated with Bob 2621 01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:02,829 for the rest of her life. 2622 01:06:02,862 --> 01:06:04,531 - Martha Ann used 2623 01:06:02,862 --> 01:06:04,531 the same formula 2624 01:06:04,564 --> 01:06:05,665 to claim her husband's 2625 01:06:05,699 --> 01:06:08,401 Social Security 2626 01:06:05,699 --> 01:06:08,401 disability benefits. 2627 01:06:08,435 --> 01:06:11,438 - There was a stipulation under 2628 01:06:08,435 --> 01:06:11,438 her Social Security benefits 2629 01:06:11,471 --> 01:06:13,239 that she could 2630 01:06:11,471 --> 01:06:13,239 not remarry prior 2631 01:06:13,273 --> 01:06:14,607 to her 60th birthday. 2632 01:06:14,641 --> 01:06:15,909 So, of course-- 2633 01:06:15,942 --> 01:06:17,430 - There's a little dancing 2634 01:06:15,942 --> 01:06:17,430 that had to be in there. 2635 01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:19,612 - Yes, so they then 2636 01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:19,612 got married again 2637 01:06:19,646 --> 01:06:22,716 three years to the date 2638 01:06:19,646 --> 01:06:22,716 after their first marriage. 2639 01:06:22,749 --> 01:06:26,119 So, yeah, they had essentially 2640 01:06:22,749 --> 01:06:26,119 two marriage dates. 2641 01:06:28,655 --> 01:06:30,900 - With so much 2642 01:06:28,655 --> 01:06:30,900 compelling evidence 2643 01:06:30,123 --> 01:06:31,891 against Martha Ann 2644 01:06:30,123 --> 01:06:31,891 and Chuck, 2645 01:06:31,925 --> 01:06:34,594 Nate figured it was 2646 01:06:31,925 --> 01:06:34,594 more than a coincidence 2647 01:06:34,627 --> 01:06:36,896 that Martha Ann 2648 01:06:34,627 --> 01:06:36,896 had married the man 2649 01:06:36,930 --> 01:06:39,966 who was last known to be 2650 01:06:36,930 --> 01:06:39,966 with her husband, Bob. 2651 01:06:40,660 --> 01:06:42,502 If Chuck had murdered Bob, 2652 01:06:42,535 --> 01:06:44,204 and Martha Ann 2653 01:06:42,535 --> 01:06:44,204 who'd married Chuck 2654 01:06:44,237 --> 01:06:46,439 just five months 2655 01:06:44,237 --> 01:06:46,439 after Bob's death 2656 01:06:46,473 --> 01:06:48,875 must have known something. 2657 01:06:48,908 --> 01:06:51,478 - We really never believed 2658 01:06:48,908 --> 01:06:51,478 that she could be 2659 01:06:51,511 --> 01:06:53,113 capable of killing Bob. 2660 01:06:53,146 --> 01:06:54,981 - Just who would do 2661 01:06:53,146 --> 01:06:54,981 such a thing? 2662 01:06:55,810 --> 01:06:56,349 - Well, and we knew 2663 01:06:55,810 --> 01:06:56,349 that Chuck was 2664 01:06:56,383 --> 01:06:58,918 the last person with Bob. 2665 01:06:58,952 --> 01:07:02,122 So we really didn't think 2666 01:06:58,952 --> 01:07:02,122 Martha was the one 2667 01:07:02,155 --> 01:07:04,900 that had killed Bob. 2668 01:07:04,124 --> 01:07:06,693 I think we both believed 2669 01:07:04,124 --> 01:07:06,693 that it was Chuck. 2670 01:07:06,726 --> 01:07:09,396 - But they wanted 2671 01:07:06,726 --> 01:07:09,396 to be sure. 2672 01:07:09,429 --> 01:07:11,865 If there was 2673 01:07:09,429 --> 01:07:11,865 a murder conspiracy, 2674 01:07:11,898 --> 01:07:15,335 maybe a son could find out 2675 01:07:11,898 --> 01:07:15,335 from his mother. 2676 01:07:15,368 --> 01:07:18,638 They decided to recruit Sean, 2677 01:07:15,368 --> 01:07:18,638 get him to wear a wire 2678 01:07:18,672 --> 01:07:21,708 and place a call 2679 01:07:18,672 --> 01:07:21,708 to his mom, Martha Ann, 2680 01:07:21,741 --> 01:07:24,878 and ask her what she knew 2681 01:07:21,741 --> 01:07:24,878 about the photos. 2682 01:07:24,911 --> 01:07:27,147 Sean agreed. 2683 01:07:27,180 --> 01:07:29,490 - So he was willing 2684 01:07:27,180 --> 01:07:29,490 to make the phone call 2685 01:07:29,820 --> 01:07:32,452 and we gave him 2686 01:07:29,820 --> 01:07:32,452 a, you know, recording device. 2687 01:07:32,485 --> 01:07:35,889 - What's it like to phone 2688 01:07:32,485 --> 01:07:35,889 your mother knowing that 2689 01:07:35,922 --> 01:07:38,658 you're going to be putting 2690 01:07:35,922 --> 01:07:38,658 her on the spot that way 2691 01:07:38,692 --> 01:07:40,493 on tape with 2692 01:07:38,692 --> 01:07:40,493 somebody listening? 2693 01:07:40,527 --> 01:07:42,495 - Well, it had to be done. 2694 01:07:42,529 --> 01:07:44,130 - You nervous? 2695 01:07:44,164 --> 01:07:47,634 - I was nervous, 2696 01:07:44,164 --> 01:07:47,634 but at the same time... 2697 01:07:47,667 --> 01:07:50,103 - You gotta know? 2698 01:07:47,667 --> 01:07:50,103 - --you have to know. 2699 01:07:50,136 --> 01:07:52,639 - Nate and Sean's wife, Jen, 2700 01:07:50,136 --> 01:07:52,639 were listening 2701 01:07:52,672 --> 01:07:54,107 as the call began. 2702 01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:59,546 - We talked for 2703 01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:59,546 about an hour, 2704 01:07:59,579 --> 01:08:01,281 for about 45 minutes 2705 01:07:59,579 --> 01:08:01,281 to an hour. 2706 01:08:01,314 --> 01:08:03,483 - He's like, 2707 01:08:01,314 --> 01:08:03,483 "Hey, Mom, the kids were 2708 01:08:03,516 --> 01:08:05,318 on the computer 2709 01:08:03,516 --> 01:08:05,318 over the weekend, 2710 01:08:05,352 --> 01:08:06,653 and when I got 2711 01:08:05,352 --> 01:08:06,653 in the trash, 2712 01:08:06,686 --> 01:08:08,788 I found, like, over 2713 01:08:06,686 --> 01:08:08,788 a hundred photographs 2714 01:08:08,822 --> 01:08:10,857 in there of Bob dead." 2715 01:08:10,890 --> 01:08:13,260 - I asked her why 2716 01:08:10,890 --> 01:08:13,260 the pictures were there-- 2717 01:08:13,260 --> 01:08:15,161 - And she said, 2718 01:08:13,260 --> 01:08:15,161 "Photos of Bob?" 2719 01:08:15,195 --> 01:08:16,328 - She started saying, 2720 01:08:16,363 --> 01:08:17,930 "I think those are 2721 01:08:16,363 --> 01:08:17,930 police photos, Sean". 2722 01:08:18,310 --> 01:08:20,300 And he was like, 2723 01:08:18,310 --> 01:08:20,300 "Mom, these photographs 2724 01:08:20,332 --> 01:08:21,568 are not police photos". 2725 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,569 - And then he said, 2726 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,569 "He has a pill bottle 2727 01:08:23,603 --> 01:08:25,404 and a pistol, 2728 01:08:23,603 --> 01:08:25,404 and then he doesn't, 2729 01:08:25,438 --> 01:08:27,240 and he's-he's dead. 2730 01:08:27,273 --> 01:08:28,774 Why are these pictures 2731 01:08:27,273 --> 01:08:28,774 in here?" 2732 01:08:28,808 --> 01:08:31,243 - Her spontaneous reaction 2733 01:08:28,808 --> 01:08:31,243 to this being 2734 01:08:31,277 --> 01:08:33,846 posed to her was, 2735 01:08:31,277 --> 01:08:33,846 "For God sake, Sean, 2736 01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,249 delete those photographs", 2737 01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,249 you know? 2738 01:08:36,282 --> 01:08:38,518 And that was kind of 2739 01:08:36,282 --> 01:08:38,518 what we were looking for. 2740 01:08:38,551 --> 01:08:41,540 - What did you think when you 2741 01:08:38,551 --> 01:08:41,540 got off that phone call? 2742 01:08:41,540 --> 01:08:43,957 Did you think this woman 2743 01:08:41,540 --> 01:08:43,957 was part of it? 2744 01:08:44,569 --> 01:08:46,725 - I really started thinking 2745 01:08:44,569 --> 01:08:46,725 that she's guilty. 2746 01:08:48,609 --> 01:08:51,640 She has more of 2747 01:08:48,609 --> 01:08:51,640 a role in Bob's death 2748 01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,334 than she put on. 2749 01:08:54,367 --> 01:08:56,336 - Nate agreed. 2750 01:08:56,368 --> 01:08:58,904 With the suspicious will, 2751 01:08:56,368 --> 01:08:58,904 the wedding dates, 2752 01:08:58,938 --> 01:09:01,140 and the photos 2753 01:08:58,938 --> 01:09:01,140 of Bob's death scene, 2754 01:09:01,174 --> 01:09:02,509 Nate and his investigators 2755 01:09:02,542 --> 01:09:05,745 believed they were dealing 2756 01:09:02,542 --> 01:09:05,745 with a murder conspiracy, 2757 01:09:05,779 --> 01:09:08,140 that Bob had not 2758 01:09:05,779 --> 01:09:08,140 killed himself 2759 01:09:08,140 --> 01:09:10,316 with an overdose 2760 01:09:08,140 --> 01:09:10,316 of anti-depressants, 2761 01:09:10,350 --> 01:09:13,189 but had been 2762 01:09:10,350 --> 01:09:13,189 deliberately poisoned. 2763 01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:15,587 And as they confronted 2764 01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:15,587 their two suspects, 2765 01:09:15,622 --> 01:09:19,626 one of them was about 2766 01:09:15,622 --> 01:09:19,626 to sing like a canary. 2767 01:09:21,761 --> 01:09:23,563 - Coming up, 2768 01:09:23,595 --> 01:09:27,567 a dramatic courtroom showdown, 2769 01:09:23,595 --> 01:09:27,567 Chuck versus Martha Ann. 2770 01:09:43,383 --> 01:09:46,519 - It was a cold night 2771 01:09:43,383 --> 01:09:46,519 in December 2012. 2772 01:09:47,319 --> 01:09:49,622 VA Special Agent 2773 01:09:47,319 --> 01:09:49,622 Nate Landkammer waited 2774 01:09:49,656 --> 01:09:52,459 outside a jail cell 2775 01:09:49,656 --> 01:09:52,459 in Tennessee. 2776 01:09:52,492 --> 01:09:54,828 Nervous, uncertain. 2777 01:09:54,861 --> 01:09:57,197 Inside, investigators 2778 01:09:54,861 --> 01:09:57,197 were trying to persuade 2779 01:09:57,230 --> 01:10:00,667 Chuck Kaczmarczyk 2780 01:09:57,230 --> 01:10:00,667 to reveal, finally, 2781 01:10:00,700 --> 01:10:04,237 the real story of 2782 01:10:00,700 --> 01:10:04,237 that deadly Monday in 2006. 2783 01:10:04,270 --> 01:10:07,240 Who did what, and why? 2784 01:10:07,273 --> 01:10:10,610 And then out came 2785 01:10:07,273 --> 01:10:10,610 the investigators, 2786 01:10:10,643 --> 01:10:12,879 smiles on their faces. 2787 01:10:12,912 --> 01:10:14,514 Chuck talked. 2788 01:10:14,547 --> 01:10:16,349 - That was kind of, like, 2789 01:10:14,547 --> 01:10:16,349 the culmination of everything, 2790 01:10:16,383 --> 01:10:19,452 knowing that what we had 2791 01:10:16,383 --> 01:10:19,452 suspected was correct. 2792 01:10:20,420 --> 01:10:22,489 - Nate understood 2793 01:10:20,420 --> 01:10:22,489 full well. 2794 01:10:22,522 --> 01:10:26,493 The stage was set for 2795 01:10:22,522 --> 01:10:26,493 an epic he said, she said battle 2796 01:10:26,526 --> 01:10:29,496 between two major league 2797 01:10:26,526 --> 01:10:29,496 con artists. 2798 01:10:29,529 --> 01:10:32,432 He couldn't know 2799 01:10:29,529 --> 01:10:32,432 whose story would win, 2800 01:10:32,465 --> 01:10:34,167 but Nate was pretty sure 2801 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:38,238 the one finally telling 2802 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:38,238 the truth was Chuck. 2803 01:10:38,271 --> 01:10:40,206 - We didn't suspect it 2804 01:10:38,271 --> 01:10:40,206 anymore. 2805 01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:41,474 Now we know. 2806 01:10:41,508 --> 01:10:45,245 - In November 2015 2807 01:10:41,508 --> 01:10:45,245 in Madisonville, Tennessee, 2808 01:10:45,278 --> 01:10:47,747 Martha Ann McClancy 2809 01:10:45,278 --> 01:10:47,747 went on trial. 2810 01:10:47,781 --> 01:10:50,450 - She was charged with, uh, 2811 01:10:47,781 --> 01:10:50,450 first degree premeditated murder 2812 01:10:50,483 --> 01:10:53,119 and conspiracy to commit 2813 01:10:50,483 --> 01:10:53,119 first degree murder. 2814 01:10:53,153 --> 01:10:54,954 - Attorney Matthew Rogers 2815 01:10:53,153 --> 01:10:54,954 was appointed 2816 01:10:54,988 --> 01:10:56,656 to defend Martha Ann, 2817 01:10:56,690 --> 01:11:00,600 accused of poisoning Bob 2818 01:10:56,690 --> 01:11:00,600 with his PTSD medications 2819 01:11:00,930 --> 01:11:02,462 and conspiring 2820 01:11:00,930 --> 01:11:02,462 with her lover, Chuck, 2821 01:11:02,495 --> 01:11:05,650 to make Bob's death 2822 01:11:02,495 --> 01:11:05,650 look like a suicide, 2823 01:11:05,650 --> 01:11:08,568 and then stealing 2824 01:11:05,650 --> 01:11:08,568 Bob's assets and benefits. 2825 01:11:08,601 --> 01:11:11,905 A guilty verdict could mean 2826 01:11:08,601 --> 01:11:11,905 the death penalty. 2827 01:11:11,938 --> 01:11:15,742 But Martha Ann was fully 2828 01:11:11,938 --> 01:11:15,742 ready to defend herself 2829 01:11:15,775 --> 01:11:18,778 with an absolute 2830 01:11:15,775 --> 01:11:18,778 blanket denial. 2831 01:11:18,812 --> 01:11:20,780 - She maintained her innocence 2832 01:11:18,812 --> 01:11:20,780 from the very beginning. 2833 01:11:20,814 --> 01:11:23,830 She made it very clear 2834 01:11:20,814 --> 01:11:23,830 that she wanted to speak 2835 01:11:23,830 --> 01:11:24,150 with the jury 2836 01:11:24,184 --> 01:11:27,187 and, uh, to, uh, tell 2837 01:11:24,184 --> 01:11:27,187 her side of the story. 2838 01:11:27,220 --> 01:11:29,656 - There were no cameras 2839 01:11:27,220 --> 01:11:29,656 in the courtroom, 2840 01:11:29,689 --> 01:11:31,424 but microphones 2841 01:11:29,689 --> 01:11:31,424 were allowed. 2842 01:11:42,402 --> 01:11:44,704 - And besides, 2843 01:11:42,402 --> 01:11:44,704 she testified, 2844 01:11:44,738 --> 01:11:46,806 she didn't need 2845 01:11:44,738 --> 01:11:46,806 to kill her husband. 2846 01:12:08,128 --> 01:12:10,630 - Martha Ann did not 2847 01:12:08,128 --> 01:12:10,630 benefit from the death 2848 01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:11,197 of Bob McClancy. 2849 01:12:11,231 --> 01:12:14,200 She would have received, 2850 01:12:11,231 --> 01:12:14,200 uh, benefits 2851 01:12:14,234 --> 01:12:16,536 through the government 2852 01:12:14,234 --> 01:12:16,536 for his military service, 2853 01:12:16,569 --> 01:12:19,706 whether he had remained alive 2854 01:12:16,569 --> 01:12:19,706 or whether he had passed. 2855 01:12:19,739 --> 01:12:22,442 - Chuck was the villain, 2856 01:12:19,739 --> 01:12:22,442 said Attorney Rogers. 2857 01:12:22,475 --> 01:12:25,779 Chuck played Martha Ann 2858 01:12:22,475 --> 01:12:25,779 like a fiddle. 2859 01:12:25,812 --> 01:12:27,814 - Mrs. McClancy 2860 01:12:25,812 --> 01:12:27,814 was snowed 2861 01:12:27,847 --> 01:12:31,484 by Mr. Kaczmarczyk's 2862 01:12:27,847 --> 01:12:31,484 cons and manipulations, 2863 01:12:31,518 --> 01:12:32,652 just as the government 2864 01:12:31,518 --> 01:12:32,652 had been 2865 01:12:32,686 --> 01:12:34,521 in numerous occasions 2866 01:12:32,686 --> 01:12:34,521 in the past. 2867 01:12:34,554 --> 01:12:38,725 Mrs. McClancy was another victim 2868 01:12:34,554 --> 01:12:38,725 of Mr. Kaczmarczyk. 2869 01:12:54,207 --> 01:12:57,100 - Lying Chuck, 2870 01:12:54,207 --> 01:12:57,100 said attorney Rogers, 2871 01:12:57,110 --> 01:13:00,460 would say anything 2872 01:12:57,110 --> 01:13:00,460 to avoid the blame. 2873 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,515 - What did-what did Chuck 2874 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,515 not lie about? 2875 01:13:02,549 --> 01:13:04,284 He's a habitual liar, 2876 01:13:04,317 --> 01:13:06,152 and that's proven 2877 01:13:04,317 --> 01:13:06,152 and documented. 2878 01:13:06,186 --> 01:13:08,955 Um, I was in a position 2879 01:13:06,186 --> 01:13:08,955 to attack his credibility, 2880 01:13:09,550 --> 01:13:10,357 and that wasn't 2881 01:13:09,550 --> 01:13:10,357 very hard. 2882 01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:13,590 - It was Chuck 2883 01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:13,590 who forged Bob's will, 2884 01:13:13,590 --> 01:13:14,127 said Martha Ann. 2885 01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:15,862 And she went along 2886 01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:15,862 with it 2887 01:13:15,895 --> 01:13:17,931 because the content 2888 01:13:15,895 --> 01:13:17,931 of the will 2889 01:13:17,964 --> 01:13:19,466 was what Bob wanted. 2890 01:13:31,770 --> 01:13:33,346 - She had no idea, she said, 2891 01:13:31,770 --> 01:13:33,346 that Chuck was planning 2892 01:13:33,380 --> 01:13:35,448 to take those 2893 01:13:33,380 --> 01:13:35,448 awful pictures. 2894 01:13:35,482 --> 01:13:38,852 And when questioned about 2895 01:13:35,482 --> 01:13:38,852 the flashy government job 2896 01:13:38,885 --> 01:13:42,989 she told Bob's sister Kathy 2897 01:13:38,885 --> 01:13:42,989 about in Washington D.C., 2898 01:13:43,890 --> 01:13:45,158 Martha Ann 2899 01:13:43,890 --> 01:13:45,158 simply scoffed. 2900 01:13:45,191 --> 01:13:46,793 Said it was a joke. 2901 01:13:57,203 --> 01:13:59,239 - Attorney Rogers took 2902 01:13:57,203 --> 01:13:59,239 Martha Ann back 2903 01:13:59,272 --> 01:14:01,410 to the day Bob died. 2904 01:14:01,410 --> 01:14:03,543 A normal day, 2905 01:14:01,410 --> 01:14:03,543 she said. 2906 01:14:07,470 --> 01:14:09,649 - And she didn't have a clue 2907 01:14:07,470 --> 01:14:09,649 that anything was wrong, 2908 01:14:09,683 --> 01:14:11,510 she testified, 2909 01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:14,754 until she arrived home 2910 01:14:11,510 --> 01:14:14,754 after 6 PM. 2911 01:14:27,670 --> 01:14:29,235 - Conspiracy 2912 01:14:27,670 --> 01:14:29,235 with Chuck? 2913 01:14:29,269 --> 01:14:31,571 Of course not, she said. 2914 01:14:41,581 --> 01:14:43,516 - First time she heard 2915 01:14:41,581 --> 01:14:43,516 about a murder conspiracy, 2916 01:14:43,550 --> 01:14:45,685 she said, 2917 01:14:43,550 --> 01:14:45,685 was after she told Chuck 2918 01:14:45,719 --> 01:14:48,888 she wanted to divorce him 2919 01:14:45,719 --> 01:14:48,888 in 2012. 2920 01:15:18,284 --> 01:15:20,353 - And that was 2921 01:15:18,284 --> 01:15:20,353 Martha Ann's story. 2922 01:15:20,387 --> 01:15:23,823 Every word of it was true, 2923 01:15:20,387 --> 01:15:23,823 she swore. 2924 01:15:23,857 --> 01:15:26,590 - If Martha Ann believes 2925 01:15:23,857 --> 01:15:26,590 that her husband, 2926 01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:27,660 Bob McClancy, 2927 01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:27,660 was murdered, 2928 01:15:27,694 --> 01:15:31,331 um, she would say that 2929 01:15:27,694 --> 01:15:31,331 it was Chuck Kaczmarczyk. 2930 01:15:31,364 --> 01:15:32,799 He was there 2931 01:15:31,364 --> 01:15:32,799 with Bob McClancy 2932 01:15:32,832 --> 01:15:34,367 when he died, 2933 01:15:32,832 --> 01:15:34,367 by admission. 2934 01:15:34,401 --> 01:15:38,271 He was the one that took 2935 01:15:34,401 --> 01:15:38,271 photographs of Mr. McClancy 2936 01:15:38,304 --> 01:15:41,508 and manipulated the, uh, 2937 01:15:38,304 --> 01:15:41,508 scene of the death, 2938 01:15:41,541 --> 01:15:43,376 whether it was 2939 01:15:41,541 --> 01:15:43,376 a crime scene or not. 2940 01:15:43,410 --> 01:15:46,790 - But the battle 2941 01:15:43,410 --> 01:15:46,790 of the con artists 2942 01:15:46,112 --> 01:15:48,810 was just getting 2943 01:15:46,112 --> 01:15:48,810 started, 2944 01:15:48,114 --> 01:15:51,751 and the prosecutors believed 2945 01:15:48,114 --> 01:15:51,751 they had a strong case. 2946 01:15:51,785 --> 01:15:53,586 - What was the most important 2947 01:15:51,785 --> 01:15:53,586 piece of evidence, 2948 01:15:53,620 --> 01:15:54,754 in your view? 2949 01:15:54,788 --> 01:15:56,956 - The most important piece 2950 01:15:54,788 --> 01:15:56,956 of evidence, of course, 2951 01:15:56,990 --> 01:15:59,526 was the Mirandized 2952 01:15:56,990 --> 01:15:59,526 confession 2953 01:15:59,559 --> 01:16:02,228 taken from 2954 01:15:59,559 --> 01:16:02,228 Chuck Kaczmarczyk. 2955 01:16:02,262 --> 01:16:06,199 - And what a dark and devious 2956 01:16:02,262 --> 01:16:06,199 story of murder 2957 01:16:06,232 --> 01:16:08,368 Chuck was about to tell. 2958 01:16:15,241 --> 01:16:18,780 - Powerful testimony 2959 01:16:15,241 --> 01:16:18,780 from the star witness. 2960 01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:32,592 - The climax was at hand. 2961 01:16:33,493 --> 01:16:36,763 The years of fraud, 2962 01:16:33,493 --> 01:16:36,763 the money and position 2963 01:16:36,796 --> 01:16:39,265 and goodwill stolen 2964 01:16:36,796 --> 01:16:39,265 from honest veterans, 2965 01:16:39,299 --> 01:16:41,634 were only 2966 01:16:39,299 --> 01:16:41,634 background now. 2967 01:16:41,668 --> 01:16:43,536 Martha Ann McClancy, 2968 01:16:43,570 --> 01:16:46,740 charged with premeditated 2969 01:16:43,570 --> 01:16:46,740 first degree murder, 2970 01:16:46,773 --> 01:16:48,742 faced the death penalty. 2971 01:16:48,775 --> 01:16:51,144 - A lot of work 2972 01:16:48,775 --> 01:16:51,144 went into this case, 2973 01:16:51,177 --> 01:16:53,380 12,000 pages 2974 01:16:51,177 --> 01:16:53,380 of documents. 2975 01:16:53,413 --> 01:16:55,782 - Cindy Schemel 2976 01:16:53,413 --> 01:16:55,782 and Mack McCoyne, 2977 01:16:55,815 --> 01:16:57,951 then assistant 2978 01:16:55,815 --> 01:16:57,951 district attorneys, 2979 01:16:57,984 --> 01:17:00,787 would prosecute what was 2980 01:16:57,984 --> 01:17:00,787 clearly a complex case 2981 01:17:00,820 --> 01:17:03,456 using a well-tested 2982 01:17:00,820 --> 01:17:03,456 strategy. 2983 01:17:03,490 --> 01:17:05,558 - The old KISS method. 2984 01:17:05,592 --> 01:17:06,893 - KISS? 2985 01:17:06,926 --> 01:17:09,863 - KISS, 2986 01:17:06,926 --> 01:17:09,863 Keep It Simple, Stupid. 2987 01:17:09,896 --> 01:17:13,533 - They presented the evidence 2988 01:17:09,896 --> 01:17:13,533 of Bob McClancy's forged will 2989 01:17:13,566 --> 01:17:17,203 and the wedding dates, 2990 01:17:13,566 --> 01:17:17,203 but not Chuck's photos, 2991 01:17:17,237 --> 01:17:20,340 which had collapsed the case 2992 01:17:17,237 --> 01:17:20,340 in 2006. 2993 01:17:20,373 --> 01:17:23,576 Instead, they showed the jury 2994 01:17:20,373 --> 01:17:23,576 police photos, 2995 01:17:23,610 --> 01:17:27,470 while Sean described 2996 01:17:23,610 --> 01:17:27,470 the photos he found. 2997 01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,517 All as he faced 2998 01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,517 his own mother. 2999 01:17:30,550 --> 01:17:32,218 - She looked at me 3000 01:17:32,252 --> 01:17:35,588 as if she wished 3001 01:17:32,252 --> 01:17:35,588 I was dead. 3002 01:17:35,622 --> 01:17:37,857 She looked at me 3003 01:17:35,622 --> 01:17:37,857 with the most hate 3004 01:17:37,891 --> 01:17:40,293 I've ever seen 3005 01:17:37,891 --> 01:17:40,293 from anyone. 3006 01:17:40,326 --> 01:17:44,330 - At last, Martha Ann's fate 3007 01:17:40,326 --> 01:17:44,330 rested in the hands 3008 01:17:44,364 --> 01:17:48,535 of the state's star witness, 3009 01:17:44,364 --> 01:17:48,535 her lying husband, Chuck, 3010 01:17:48,568 --> 01:17:50,603 now on the stand. 3011 01:17:50,637 --> 01:17:53,773 Chuck began at the beginning 3012 01:17:50,637 --> 01:17:53,773 when he met Bob 3013 01:17:53,807 --> 01:17:56,943 at that PTSD clinic 3014 01:17:53,807 --> 01:17:56,943 in 2006. 3015 01:18:01,114 --> 01:18:05,385 - Then, Bob introduced him 3016 01:18:01,114 --> 01:18:05,385 to Martha Ann, said Chuck, 3017 01:18:05,418 --> 01:18:07,554 and they began 3018 01:18:05,418 --> 01:18:07,554 an affair. 3019 01:18:07,587 --> 01:18:11,324 And she began scheming 3020 01:18:07,587 --> 01:18:11,324 to do away with Bob. 3021 01:18:20,367 --> 01:18:22,402 - She made all the decisions, 3022 01:18:20,367 --> 01:18:22,402 said Chuck. 3023 01:18:22,435 --> 01:18:25,505 Investigator 3024 01:18:22,435 --> 01:18:25,505 Nate Landkammer agreed. 3025 01:18:25,538 --> 01:18:27,273 - I think the investigation 3026 01:18:25,538 --> 01:18:27,273 clearly showed 3027 01:18:27,307 --> 01:18:29,142 that she was 3028 01:18:27,307 --> 01:18:29,142 the mastermind. 3029 01:18:32,579 --> 01:18:34,280 - Turns out, 3030 01:18:32,579 --> 01:18:34,280 before he died, 3031 01:18:34,314 --> 01:18:38,385 that Martha Ann was put 3032 01:18:34,314 --> 01:18:38,385 in charge of all of his meds, 3033 01:18:38,418 --> 01:18:40,186 that Bob was not 3034 01:18:38,418 --> 01:18:40,186 to have any access 3035 01:18:40,220 --> 01:18:41,821 to his own medications 3036 01:18:40,220 --> 01:18:41,821 whatsoever. 3037 01:18:41,855 --> 01:18:42,756 - Wow. 3038 01:18:42,789 --> 01:18:45,492 - The days before Bob died, 3039 01:18:42,789 --> 01:18:45,492 said Chuck, 3040 01:18:45,525 --> 01:18:47,861 Martha Ann 3041 01:18:45,525 --> 01:18:47,861 ground up the pills 3042 01:18:47,894 --> 01:18:50,964 into something 3043 01:18:47,894 --> 01:18:50,964 she called "magic dust". 3044 01:19:00,407 --> 01:19:04,244 - The doses got bigger, 3045 01:19:00,407 --> 01:19:04,244 and Bob, more disoriented. 3046 01:19:04,277 --> 01:19:06,746 It was Martha Ann's idea, 3047 01:19:04,277 --> 01:19:06,746 said Chuck, 3048 01:19:06,780 --> 01:19:08,481 to rush Bob 3049 01:19:06,780 --> 01:19:08,481 to the VA hospital 3050 01:19:08,515 --> 01:19:10,417 suffering 3051 01:19:08,515 --> 01:19:10,417 apparent overdoses 3052 01:19:10,450 --> 01:19:13,753 to reinforce the impression 3053 01:19:10,450 --> 01:19:13,753 that Bob was suicidal. 3054 01:19:13,787 --> 01:19:16,856 And then two days 3055 01:19:13,787 --> 01:19:16,856 after his last trip 3056 01:19:16,890 --> 01:19:18,258 to the VA hospital... 3057 01:19:29,602 --> 01:19:31,104 - She told him 3058 01:19:29,602 --> 01:19:31,104 specifically, 3059 01:19:31,137 --> 01:19:33,773 "I'm gonna-I'm gonna load him up 3060 01:19:31,137 --> 01:19:33,773 with some magic dust, 3061 01:19:33,807 --> 01:19:35,442 you know, before 3062 01:19:33,807 --> 01:19:35,442 I leave for work". 3063 01:19:35,475 --> 01:19:37,811 She said, "you come 3064 01:19:35,475 --> 01:19:37,811 over and find him. 3065 01:19:37,844 --> 01:19:39,379 "He should be dead 3066 01:19:37,844 --> 01:19:39,379 by then. 3067 01:19:39,412 --> 01:19:41,810 I'll be at work. 3068 01:19:39,412 --> 01:19:41,810 I'll have an alibi." 3069 01:19:49,589 --> 01:19:52,759 - Then, Chuck confessed, 3070 01:19:49,589 --> 01:19:52,759 he staged the scene. 3071 01:20:01,668 --> 01:20:04,537 - Those photos, 3072 01:20:01,668 --> 01:20:04,537 intended as leverage 3073 01:20:04,571 --> 01:20:07,907 to try to squeeze more money 3074 01:20:04,571 --> 01:20:07,907 out of the V.A.. 3075 01:20:07,941 --> 01:20:09,809 And the gun? 3076 01:20:09,843 --> 01:20:12,120 Chuck claimed it was 3077 01:20:09,843 --> 01:20:12,120 to honor the wishes 3078 01:20:12,450 --> 01:20:15,782 of a former detective 3079 01:20:12,450 --> 01:20:15,782 to die with a gun in his hand. 3080 01:20:28,395 --> 01:20:29,629 - I think that 3081 01:20:28,395 --> 01:20:29,629 they were evil, 3082 01:20:29,662 --> 01:20:31,831 but I think the root 3083 01:20:29,662 --> 01:20:31,831 of their evil was their greed. 3084 01:20:31,865 --> 01:20:33,466 - There it was. 3085 01:20:33,500 --> 01:20:36,360 Martha Ann poisoned Bob, 3086 01:20:36,690 --> 01:20:38,805 and Chuck was 3087 01:20:36,690 --> 01:20:38,805 her willing servant. 3088 01:20:38,838 --> 01:20:42,420 - Match made in hell, 3089 01:20:38,838 --> 01:20:42,420 uh, quite frankly. 3090 01:20:42,750 --> 01:20:43,376 - The motive? 3091 01:20:43,410 --> 01:20:45,378 Chuck and Martha Ann 3092 01:20:43,410 --> 01:20:45,378 wanted to be together 3093 01:20:45,412 --> 01:20:47,614 and they wanted money. 3094 01:20:47,647 --> 01:20:50,500 - How much money 3095 01:20:47,647 --> 01:20:50,500 altogether, any idea? 3096 01:20:50,830 --> 01:20:51,418 - I'd say close to 3097 01:20:50,830 --> 01:20:51,418 a million dollars. 3098 01:20:51,451 --> 01:20:52,719 - Close to 3099 01:20:51,451 --> 01:20:52,719 a million dollars. 3100 01:20:52,752 --> 01:20:53,853 - The prosecution rested 3101 01:20:53,887 --> 01:20:56,823 with a scathing indictment 3102 01:20:53,887 --> 01:20:56,823 of Martha Ann. 3103 01:20:56,856 --> 01:20:59,292 - To have your husband 3104 01:20:56,856 --> 01:20:59,292 die in stages, 3105 01:20:59,325 --> 01:21:02,862 thinking he's losing 3106 01:20:59,325 --> 01:21:02,862 his mind 3107 01:21:02,896 --> 01:21:06,633 because you keep overdosing him 3108 01:21:02,896 --> 01:21:06,633 with these drugs 3109 01:21:06,666 --> 01:21:08,735 until you get to 3110 01:21:06,666 --> 01:21:08,735 that fatal dose? 3111 01:21:08,768 --> 01:21:13,106 It's hard to comprehend how 3112 01:21:08,768 --> 01:21:13,106 some people can be that evil. 3113 01:21:13,139 --> 01:21:16,810 - But how would the jury 3114 01:21:13,139 --> 01:21:16,810 judge Martha Ann? 3115 01:21:16,843 --> 01:21:18,578 - I've waited ten years. 3116 01:21:18,611 --> 01:21:21,781 I was just trying to hold myself 3117 01:21:18,611 --> 01:21:21,781 together, you know? 3118 01:21:21,815 --> 01:21:23,616 - And then it came. 3119 01:21:35,695 --> 01:21:37,430 - Not guilty. 3120 01:21:37,464 --> 01:21:40,166 A wave of disappointment 3121 01:21:37,464 --> 01:21:40,166 washed through the room. 3122 01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,435 - I wish she would have 3123 01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,435 gotten the death penalty. 3124 01:21:42,469 --> 01:21:43,903 - Both her and Chuck. 3125 01:21:43,937 --> 01:21:46,473 - But the jury 3126 01:21:43,937 --> 01:21:46,473 wasn't finished. 3127 01:21:46,506 --> 01:21:47,640 - We, the jury... 3128 01:21:47,674 --> 01:21:51,211 - Martha Ann was found guilty 3129 01:21:47,674 --> 01:21:51,211 of attempted murder 3130 01:21:51,244 --> 01:21:53,213 and conspiracy 3131 01:21:51,244 --> 01:21:53,213 to commit murder. 3132 01:21:53,246 --> 01:21:56,249 - It wasn't really 3133 01:21:53,246 --> 01:21:56,249 a happy feeling. 3134 01:21:56,282 --> 01:21:59,319 I'm glad justice was served, 3135 01:21:56,282 --> 01:21:59,319 but I still thought, 3136 01:21:59,352 --> 01:22:01,540 "why did you 3137 01:21:59,352 --> 01:22:01,540 have to kill him?" 3138 01:22:01,540 --> 01:22:02,122 - Do you think 3139 01:22:01,540 --> 01:22:02,122 they got it right 3140 01:22:02,155 --> 01:22:05,580 that she was the one 3141 01:22:02,155 --> 01:22:05,580 primarily responsible? 3142 01:22:05,580 --> 01:22:07,427 - Yes, she was 3143 01:22:05,580 --> 01:22:07,427 a real conniver. 3144 01:22:07,460 --> 01:22:08,628 Yeah. 3145 01:22:07,460 --> 01:22:08,628 - Yeah. 3146 01:22:08,661 --> 01:22:10,864 - Chuck had already 3147 01:22:08,661 --> 01:22:10,864 made his deal. 3148 01:22:10,897 --> 01:22:13,967 He'd already pleaded guilty 3149 01:22:10,897 --> 01:22:13,967 to murder conspiracy. 3150 01:22:14,670 --> 01:22:16,102 Got 25 years 3151 01:22:14,670 --> 01:22:16,102 in prison. 3152 01:22:16,136 --> 01:22:18,304 - Does Chuck's sentence 3153 01:22:16,136 --> 01:22:18,304 make sense to you? 3154 01:22:18,338 --> 01:22:22,876 - He did conspire 3155 01:22:18,338 --> 01:22:22,876 and assist her in this. 3156 01:22:22,909 --> 01:22:24,244 He was necessary 3157 01:22:24,277 --> 01:22:26,813 to be able to prove the case 3158 01:22:24,277 --> 01:22:26,813 against her. 3159 01:22:26,846 --> 01:22:30,717 So when you look at that, 3160 01:22:26,846 --> 01:22:30,717 it makes sense. 3161 01:22:30,750 --> 01:22:32,952 - In June 2016, 3162 01:22:32,986 --> 01:22:35,855 when it was Martha Ann's turn 3163 01:22:32,986 --> 01:22:35,855 to receive her sentence, 3164 01:22:35,889 --> 01:22:37,757 she clung to a walker. 3165 01:22:37,791 --> 01:22:40,427 Faking disability again? 3166 01:22:40,460 --> 01:22:42,729 That's what the prosecutors 3167 01:22:40,460 --> 01:22:42,729 believed. 3168 01:22:42,762 --> 01:22:45,532 And then the judge 3169 01:22:42,762 --> 01:22:45,532 tore into her. 3170 01:22:45,565 --> 01:22:51,104 - The slow poisoning 3171 01:22:45,565 --> 01:22:51,104 and slipping of life 3172 01:22:51,104 --> 01:22:55,408 from an individual 3173 01:22:51,104 --> 01:22:55,408 is exceptionally heinous. 3174 01:22:55,442 --> 01:22:57,811 - He gave her the max, 3175 01:22:55,442 --> 01:22:57,811 50 years. 3176 01:22:57,844 --> 01:23:00,680 And although that was 3177 01:22:57,844 --> 01:23:00,680 halved on appeal, 3178 01:23:00,714 --> 01:23:04,651 Martha Ann may serve the rest 3179 01:23:00,714 --> 01:23:04,651 of her life in prison. 3180 01:23:04,684 --> 01:23:07,187 - I'm a firm believer 3181 01:23:04,684 --> 01:23:07,187 that karma will get ya. 3182 01:23:07,220 --> 01:23:09,890 And I think it's got her. 3183 01:23:09,122 --> 01:23:11,124 - Absolutely 3184 01:23:09,122 --> 01:23:11,124 the epitome of evil. 3185 01:23:11,157 --> 01:23:13,793 She was the meanest, 3186 01:23:11,157 --> 01:23:13,793 cruelest, 3187 01:23:13,827 --> 01:23:16,329 and she didn't 3188 01:23:13,827 --> 01:23:16,329 get away with it. 3189 01:23:16,363 --> 01:23:20,133 That made me feel 3190 01:23:16,363 --> 01:23:20,133 a little bit better about it. 3191 01:23:20,166 --> 01:23:22,235 - And for the detective 3192 01:23:20,166 --> 01:23:22,235 who believed 3193 01:23:22,268 --> 01:23:25,305 nearly ten years earlier 3194 01:23:22,268 --> 01:23:25,305 that Chuck was guilty, 3195 01:23:25,338 --> 01:23:27,507 it was vindication. 3196 01:23:27,540 --> 01:23:28,742 - The fact of the matter is, 3197 01:23:28,775 --> 01:23:30,810 if you had not looked 3198 01:23:28,775 --> 01:23:30,810 at that camera, 3199 01:23:30,844 --> 01:23:33,313 if you had not opened up 3200 01:23:30,844 --> 01:23:33,313 those photographs, 3201 01:23:33,346 --> 01:23:35,115 we wouldn't be sitting here 3202 01:23:33,346 --> 01:23:35,115 talking today. 3203 01:23:35,148 --> 01:23:37,350 - No. And justice would have 3204 01:23:35,148 --> 01:23:37,350 never gotten served 3205 01:23:37,384 --> 01:23:39,619 for the McClancy family. 3206 01:23:39,652 --> 01:23:41,821 - So it came out 3207 01:23:39,652 --> 01:23:41,821 all right after all. 3208 01:23:41,855 --> 01:23:45,191 - It did. 3209 01:23:41,855 --> 01:23:45,191 Took a while, but it did. 3210 01:23:45,225 --> 01:23:46,960 - Yes, it did. 3211 01:23:46,993 --> 01:23:50,897 No small thanks 3212 01:23:46,993 --> 01:23:50,897 to Martha Ann's son, Sean. 3213 01:23:50,930 --> 01:23:54,100 - No child should ever 3214 01:23:50,930 --> 01:23:54,100 have to testify 3215 01:23:54,100 --> 01:23:55,435 against their parent. 3216 01:23:55,468 --> 01:23:56,836 - That was the hardest thing 3217 01:23:55,468 --> 01:23:56,836 you ever did? 3218 01:23:56,870 --> 01:23:58,505 - That was 3219 01:23:56,870 --> 01:23:58,505 the hardest thing. 3220 01:23:58,538 --> 01:24:01,241 - And he hasn't been the same 3221 01:23:58,538 --> 01:24:01,241 since finding out 3222 01:24:01,274 --> 01:24:03,910 about his mom's 3223 01:24:01,274 --> 01:24:03,910 monstrous crimes. 3224 01:24:03,943 --> 01:24:06,312 - I think he had 3225 01:24:03,943 --> 01:24:06,312 a lot of trouble 3226 01:24:06,346 --> 01:24:07,947 wrapping his head 3227 01:24:06,346 --> 01:24:07,947 around it 3228 01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:11,751 and believing that 3229 01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:11,751 she was capable of this. 3230 01:24:11,785 --> 01:24:13,386 Bob was a man 3231 01:24:11,785 --> 01:24:13,386 of right. 3232 01:24:13,420 --> 01:24:15,121 He was a detective. 3233 01:24:15,155 --> 01:24:16,356 He was a Marine. 3234 01:24:16,389 --> 01:24:19,590 And he would fight 3235 01:24:16,389 --> 01:24:19,590 for justice for strangers. 3236 01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,128 And there was no way that 3237 01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,128 he was gonna go down like that 3238 01:24:22,162 --> 01:24:24,664 and be silenced 3239 01:24:22,162 --> 01:24:24,664 that way. 3240 01:24:24,698 --> 01:24:28,835 - But there was one more piece 3241 01:24:24,698 --> 01:24:28,835 of unfinished business. 3242 01:24:28,868 --> 01:24:31,338 Sean, remember, 3243 01:24:28,868 --> 01:24:31,338 was adopted. 3244 01:24:31,371 --> 01:24:35,342 - I had always been told 3245 01:24:31,371 --> 01:24:35,342 that I would never find out 3246 01:24:35,375 --> 01:24:38,345 where I was 3247 01:24:35,375 --> 01:24:38,345 actually from, um, 3248 01:24:38,378 --> 01:24:41,514 or who my birth parents 3249 01:24:38,378 --> 01:24:41,514 would be. 3250 01:24:41,548 --> 01:24:44,840 - Even after a Florida court 3251 01:24:41,548 --> 01:24:44,840 denied him access 3252 01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:45,552 to his adoption records, 3253 01:24:45,585 --> 01:24:47,654 he was determined to find 3254 01:24:45,585 --> 01:24:47,654 his birth parents. 3255 01:24:47,687 --> 01:24:50,990 He ended up getting in touch 3256 01:24:47,687 --> 01:24:50,990 with ancestry DNA, 3257 01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:52,959 and what do you know? 3258 01:24:52,992 --> 01:24:56,960 - We basically hit 3259 01:24:52,992 --> 01:24:56,960 the bullseye immediately. 3260 01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:56,963 - Wow. 3261 01:24:56,996 --> 01:24:58,231 - That's just crazy. 3262 01:24:58,264 --> 01:25:01,668 - They found his birth father 3263 01:24:58,264 --> 01:25:01,668 living in Maine. 3264 01:25:01,701 --> 01:25:03,436 - That feels amazing. 3265 01:25:03,470 --> 01:25:05,638 Overwhelming. 3266 01:25:05,672 --> 01:25:08,575 - Not long after first speaking 3267 01:25:05,672 --> 01:25:08,575 with his birth father, 3268 01:25:08,608 --> 01:25:10,243 Sean traveled 3269 01:25:08,608 --> 01:25:10,243 to meet him 3270 01:25:10,276 --> 01:25:13,346 and they now chat regularly 3271 01:25:10,276 --> 01:25:13,346 on the phone. 3272 01:25:13,380 --> 01:25:16,282 And as they plan to see 3273 01:25:13,380 --> 01:25:16,282 each other more often, 3274 01:25:16,316 --> 01:25:19,586 Sean is discovering 3275 01:25:16,316 --> 01:25:19,586 a whole new life, 3276 01:25:19,619 --> 01:25:22,288 a whole new future. 3277 01:25:28,610 --> 01:25:29,229 - That's all 3278 01:25:28,610 --> 01:25:29,229 for this edition 3279 01:25:29,229 --> 01:25:31,364 of "Dateline: 3280 01:25:29,229 --> 01:25:31,364 Secrets Uncovered". 3281 01:25:31,364 --> 01:25:33,900 I'm Kate Snow. 3282 01:25:31,364 --> 01:25:33,900 Thank you for watching.