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(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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(INSTRUMENTS TUNING)
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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(MAN COUGHING)
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CONDUCTOR:
Okay so, from the top.
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(MUSIC STARTS PLAYING)
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It's quiet, I think we can... quiet.
You know what I mean?
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-You know what I mean?
-Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
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So, it's got the same value,
but it doesn't have the little turn there.
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Yeah.
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-It's a quiet village
-Yeah!
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And "provincial", you want "chill", right?
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-Provincial.
-In this poor provincial town.
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-Yeah.
-Mm-hmm.
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(ORCHESTRA PLAYING)
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Little town, it's a quiet village
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Every day, like the one before
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Little town, full of little people
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Waking up to say
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-MALE SINGER 1: Bonjour
-MALE SINGER 2: Bonjour
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-FEMALE SINGERS: Bonjour, bonjour
-MALE SINGER 3: Bonjour
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DON:
It was the summer of 1990
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and we were all gathered in New York City
to record the songs
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for Beauty and the Beast.
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Howard Ashman,
and his songwriting partner, Alan Menken,
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had already won Oscars,
Golden Globes, and Grammys,
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and had captured the imagination
of a generation.
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Right from the moment when I met her
Saw her
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I said she's gorgeous and I fell
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Here in town there's only she
Who is beautiful as me
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So I'm making plans to woo and marry Belle
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(MUSIC STOPS)
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-(APPLAUSE)
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
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DON: We knew something really special
was happening that day.
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But what we didn't know
was that in nine months,
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Howard would be gone.
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SARAH:
Howard and I were raised and grew up
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on a street called Flannery Lane
in Baltimore.
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It was a street of row houses.
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Each... There was a...
would be a row of ten houses
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and then a little bit of
a break between them,
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and... and another row of ten.
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Howard loved to tell stories,
and my job as his kid sister
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was to be the best audience.
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We were home alone and... and Howard
often was taking care of me home alone.
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And he... Howard just said, "Wait here,"
and left me downstairs,
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and I could hear him upstairs.
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I heard the door closing,
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I heard... I heard things going on,
and Howard had wrapped a Turkish towel
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from the bathroom and wrapped it
around his head like a turban.
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So, Howard called me upstairs to his room,
which was at the top of the stairs,
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kind of a long, thin,
steep stairway, and...
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the lights were off in the room
and the blinds were down.
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I remember it being dimly lit.
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He put something over the lampshades
and he started showing me around,
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and it wasn't his room anymore.
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He started showing me around this land
he had created.
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(PIANO MUSIC PLAYING)
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SARAH: He had done it
with little plastic cowboys and Indians
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and soldiers, but he had painted them,
he had covered them with tissue,
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he had put glitter on them,
he had made them into characters
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of his own, more interesting characters
than cowboys and Indians.
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And he put them in these little vignettes,
these little scenes.
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And he took me scene by scene
and told me stories
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about what I was seeing.
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Just, you know, "Look over there,
there's Tink," or "There's Peter Pan
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"or Tiger Lily," and some of the scenes,
there was... there was one with a mirror
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that was maybe... It was either a lake
or a... ice-skating rink.
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He was using every creative part
of himself to do that.
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He was gonna lead me to this place
that was unlike any place
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that we would know
in Baltimore County, Maryland.
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It was Howard having a great time,
Howard enjoying himself
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and bringing you along on that journey,
bringing you along with him.
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SHIRLEY: And Howard used to
put on shows in the backyard
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and he would write the...
write the play
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and cast it, and all the kids
in neighborhood were in the show.
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And every bedspread I ever had,
and old sheets and whatever,
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became curtains and costumes
and I never could throw anything away.
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SARAH:
My dad's name was Ray, Ray Ashman.
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He had a variety of jobs, but the one
I remember had to do with working
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for an ice-cream cone factory,
and Dad began
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by actually delivering the cones
on a truck.
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SHIRLEY:
Howard's father, at first, when we said
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Howard should take dancing lessons,
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"No, no, no, no, no. Not a boy,
he doesn't take dancing lessons."
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SARAH: Dad was really funny,
he was a very funny man.
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I learned something from him
about storytelling, which is,
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I remember once telling him a joke
and he laughed, and the next day,
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he had taken the joke I told him,
the punchline, and he made it into a story
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about himself.
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You never say, "So there's
this guy who walks into a bar,"
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you say, "Funniest thing, I walk
into a bar," that was my dad.
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SHIRLEY: He took How...
He tried to take Howard fishing
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and introduce him to baseball,
and Howard just was not interested.
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They went fishing and they sat
on the bank and they put their rod
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in the water and they both sat there
and Howard wasn't...
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And Ray wasn't a fisherman either,
but he thought it was the thing you do
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'cause, I mean, he's your son
and you have to do these things.
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So, they sat there and he looked at Howard
and Howard looked at him and he said,
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"Howard, are you having fun?"
and Howard said, "No, not really, Dad.
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"Are you?" He said,
"Frankly, no. Let's go home."
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(LAUGHING) So they left
and they came home, no fish.
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SARAH:
My mom was a very semi-professional singer
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at one point.
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She was on a local TV show once singing.
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You know, early on, my mom was the star.
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Just the star kinda transferred to Howard,
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but there was always this
periphery of showbiz.
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SHIRLEY:
And then when Howard was about six or so,
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we went to see a show.
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It was a children's show,
kids were on the stage.
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When the kids came on
and they started to do things,
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Howard poked me in the arm and said,
"Mommy, I wanna do that. That'd be fun."
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So, I... figured out how do it,
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introduced him to some people,
and we got him into CTA,
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Children's Theater Association,
and I thought it would be good for him
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because he liked to imitate
all the characters in... in the show,
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in Peter Pan, and he'd do Captain Hook,
and he could do anybody you wanted.
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and he could do
anybody you wanted him to.
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You'd just say, "Howard, do so and so,"
and he would do it.
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HOWARD: I had lots of friends
who played pianos and sat around
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with the Rogers and Hammerstein
vocal selections for a long, long time.
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When I saw Mitzi Green do Gypsy
at... at Ford's in Baltimore and...
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Um, I don't remember who did My Fair Lady,
but sure, the usual stuff.
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I think everybody of my generation
sort of grew up on the same shows
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and fell in love with the same shows
at the same time.
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SHIRLEY: He wrote poems for everything.
For birthdays, holidays, anniversaries.
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Then, the poems led to stories.
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And the stories led to plays and lyrics
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and the lyrics always told a story.
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HOWARD: And I used to make musicals
out of anything that moved
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when I was 14 years old.
When I was in high school,
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I used to just musicalize my...
my laundry list
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and it was sort of a hobby.
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SARAH: Howard and I were the first
in our... in our family to go to college.
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And we didn't have parents saying,
for instance, "Yale is a good place
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"for you to go if you want to go
into theater," and we didn't have that.
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So Howard's first year was...
he went to, um, Boston University
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and then he went to Goddard,
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and the joke in Goddard
is that it was hippiest, dippiest
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college ever known to man, you know,
they didn't have grades.
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It was... it was totally Bohemian.
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He seemed perfectly happy there...
(CHUCKLING)
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...and he did a lot of theater there,
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and he got into experimental theater,
and it was more off-beat theater.
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And my mother's story is,
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you know, at one point,
he's writhing naked on the floor
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right in front of her, it was not a...
it was probably not a great moment
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for either one of them.
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He spent a summer at a theater program
and he met Stuart White.
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Snooze, at the time his name was.
Snooze White.
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Ironically, Snooze was also
from Baltimore, but they didn't...
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had never known each other there.
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KYLE: And by a certain point,
during the summer,
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they had become a secret couple.
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SARAH:
Stuart was a... just a ball of energy,
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he was, um, like a sprite.
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And he was just a wonderful actor,
um, but he was passionate about directing
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and that's really what he wanted to do.
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And they fell in love.
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And when it was time for graduate school,
Indiana was the school
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that they both applied to,
they both got scholarships
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by being in the act...
in the professional acting company,
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and they got to live together, really,
you know, um, set up a home together.
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I remember Howard seeming
very happy there.
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NANCY:
I met Howard in 1971
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at Indiana University
in the theater department.
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And I was a freshman and he was part
of the Indiana Touring Company
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um, as an actor.
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Well, I don't think he really thought
of himself as an actor,
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but he was an amazing actor,
but that's not what he wanted to do.
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He really wanted to write and direct.
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He was going for his master's
in playwriting and he was going to do
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his take on the Snow Queen
for his master's thesis.
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He was gonna write the lyrics
for the songs and he was gonna direct it.
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So everybody, everybody and their brother
and sister wanted to be
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in this production.
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Howard was extremely charismatic
and he had all manner of groupies
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at all times.
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KYLE: Howard had
a sort of a fierce... liveliness.
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And Stuart had kind of
a boyish flamboyance.
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And together, they attracted
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huge numbers of people to their company.
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NANCY: Stuart and Howard together
were an amazing force to be reckoned with.
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And they were a great match
'cause Howard was gonna write
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and Stuart was gonna direct,
so they made it through
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Indiana University together
and then moved to New York.
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(UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYING)
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NANCY: New York in the '70s
was really scary and dirty.
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It was terrifying.
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KYLE: It was simultaneously
glamorous and threatening.
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DENNIS: I got mugged a couple of times,
but there was a lot of energy,
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there was a lot of creative energy
and you could... you could feel it.
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NANCY: Howard was not in the coterie
of New York theater.
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He didn't have a relationship
that a lot of the actors and directors
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who had been affiliated with Yale.
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(CHUCKLING)
His friends, we were his friends
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from Indiana University,
and we were nobodies.
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HOWARD: When I first got to New York,
I was drawn into a project
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as a book writer 'cause at that time,
I was something of a playwright,
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and I was getting produced a little bit
when I first got here.
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Little one-acts and things.
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SARAH: When he moved to New York,
there was no money coming in
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from any of this stuff,
and there was a time when he thought,
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you know,
"Theater is not gonna do it for me
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and maybe I should be in publishing."
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NANCY: He was writing cover copy
in publishing because he needed money.
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He was assigned to edit
the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse Scrapbook,
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and he was just over the moon
to be doing this because he had watched it
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as a kid and loved it and he was going
to get to come out to California
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and go to Disney to work on it,
and it was his absolute favorite project.
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But his heart really wasn't in
being a book editor.
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He really wanted to write and direct.
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KYLE: There were so many young people
who were attracted to the arts
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and couldn't get jobs, um,
doing what they wanted to do,
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so they started their own institutions.
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And Howard called one day and said,
"What do you think of the idea
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"of starting a theater?"
And I said, "Sure."
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Stuart actually found it.
It was a... a loft,
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it was sort of a theater classroom.
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It was on the second floor.
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NANCY: The WPA was
a hole-in-the-wall theater. (LAUGHING)
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It was dark, it was dreary,
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and, you know, it was upstairs from,
226
00:13:03,866 --> 00:13:06,536
I don't know,
some really skeevy donut shop.
227
00:13:06,619 --> 00:13:07,787
-(SIREN WAILING)
-(HORN HOKING)
228
00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:12,875
KYLE: At the time, everyone we knew said,
"Don't do it.
229
00:13:13,334 --> 00:13:17,588
"Lower Fifth Avenue is a ghost town,
there's nothing there.
230
00:13:18,131 --> 00:13:21,301
"People won't go there,
it's scary at night.
231
00:13:21,884 --> 00:13:23,428
-"Don't do it."
-(SIRENS WAIL)
232
00:13:23,928 --> 00:13:28,850
Then a Korean (CENSORED) house, uh,
took over on the top floor and they were,
233
00:13:28,975 --> 00:13:33,438
needless to say, more successful
than the other rentals in the building.
234
00:13:33,688 --> 00:13:35,940
SARAH:
Basically, they took a hole-in-the-wall,
235
00:13:36,024 --> 00:13:38,401
they took a big, empty nothing,
236
00:13:38,651 --> 00:13:42,613
and they built a theater in there,
they built a black box theater in there.
237
00:13:43,281 --> 00:13:45,533
NANCY:
It just had a really good stage space,
238
00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:49,037
and we were a little 99-seat theater.
239
00:13:49,954 --> 00:13:53,624
KYLE: The idea was that I would be
the managing director.
240
00:13:54,792 --> 00:13:58,921
Howard and Stuart would share
the duties of artistic director.
241
00:14:00,006 --> 00:14:01,174
NANCY:
Howard was...
242
00:14:02,133 --> 00:14:05,053
picking plays, Stuart was directing plays
243
00:14:05,261 --> 00:14:10,558
and, um... they had this theater
to kind of play with.
244
00:14:11,684 --> 00:14:15,271
ALAN: It was this....
like this sacred clubhouse.
245
00:14:15,730 --> 00:14:17,273
Very sort of cozy.
246
00:14:17,357 --> 00:14:21,736
Almost like a... I don't know, like a...
like a theatrical monastery or something.
247
00:14:22,236 --> 00:14:24,322
PETER:
And it was one of those extraordinary,
248
00:14:24,489 --> 00:14:28,576
magical places
because anything was possible.
249
00:14:28,993 --> 00:14:34,457
Broadway was not necessarily the pinnacle,
it was this extraordinary
250
00:14:34,540 --> 00:14:36,250
off-off-Broadway movement.
251
00:14:38,836 --> 00:14:40,129
NANCY:
Stuart got to New York
252
00:14:40,213 --> 00:14:42,882
and something had been unleashed
in Stuart.
253
00:14:43,341 --> 00:14:46,386
KYLE: He... He was involved in
a lot of behavior that
254
00:14:46,511 --> 00:14:48,262
a more mature person
255
00:14:48,388 --> 00:14:52,767
would not get involved in
and he wanted more adventures,
256
00:14:53,101 --> 00:14:54,644
specifically sexual.
257
00:14:55,561 --> 00:14:58,606
Howard wanted more domesticity.
258
00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:01,192
And I think he went along with it
259
00:15:01,275 --> 00:15:03,694
until he couldn't go along
with it anymore.
260
00:15:03,903 --> 00:15:07,323
NANCY: And... And he used to sometimes
refer to Howard as "grandma"
261
00:15:07,448 --> 00:15:10,410
'cause Howard was like, the parent
262
00:15:10,743 --> 00:15:14,539
and Stuart was just like,
"I'm out here, I'm having fun.
263
00:15:14,747 --> 00:15:18,167
"It's New York City.
Look out, here I come."
264
00:15:19,085 --> 00:15:21,838
HOWARD:
265
00:15:37,937 --> 00:15:40,064
KYLE:
Stuart was definitely self-destructive.
266
00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:44,777
We were walking up Eighth Avenue one day,
talking about getting older,
267
00:15:45,027 --> 00:15:48,406
and he said, "I have no intention
of living to be 39."
268
00:15:49,532 --> 00:15:54,704
Howard said to me that the WPA
had essentially come about
269
00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:57,165
because he wanted to save
their relationship.
270
00:15:58,207 --> 00:15:59,459
And that didn't work.
271
00:15:59,584 --> 00:16:03,880
NANCY: They broke up
and it really affected the family
272
00:16:04,088 --> 00:16:09,302
because you kind of had to pick sides,
which was like a divorce.
273
00:16:11,637 --> 00:16:14,432
KYLE:
Stuart... Stuart went away.
274
00:16:15,725 --> 00:16:18,269
I always said yes to Howard and Stuart
275
00:16:18,686 --> 00:16:21,522
because I believed
totally in both of them.
276
00:16:23,107 --> 00:16:27,778
Stuart was not so fortunate to find
that when he went outside the WPA,
277
00:16:27,862 --> 00:16:31,616
and a lot of people said no to him
and thought he was kind of a diva.
278
00:16:32,950 --> 00:16:38,539
I think that for my own survival,
I had to pick Howard
279
00:16:38,664 --> 00:16:41,626
because I was able
to still keep working with him.
280
00:16:42,001 --> 00:16:45,922
There was a clarity to the fact
that Howard was moving in a direction
281
00:16:46,631 --> 00:16:53,095
that was really significant...
and I wanted to be a part of.
282
00:16:54,847 --> 00:16:57,266
ALAN:
I went from accompanying ballet classes
283
00:16:57,391 --> 00:17:00,019
to accompanying singers
to writing songs for Sesame Street,
284
00:17:00,561 --> 00:17:02,772
and everybody was struggling
to make their way.
285
00:17:02,855 --> 00:17:07,360
So, there's a good deal of competition
between writers and getting their shows on
286
00:17:07,485 --> 00:17:10,905
and who was going to, uh, just get op...
basic opportunities.
287
00:17:12,073 --> 00:17:16,118
We met through... Actually, the person
who first called me was Maury Yeston,
288
00:17:16,869 --> 00:17:21,332
.and, um, and said, "Alan, there's this,
uh, book writer named Howard Ashman
289
00:17:21,457 --> 00:17:24,377
and he's interested
in doing God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater."
290
00:17:24,919 --> 00:17:28,381
And I was a Vonnegut fan, but he said,
"But he wants to write the lyrics."
291
00:17:28,506 --> 00:17:33,970
And I said... "Okay, I'll meet with him."
And the guy who shows up at my door
292
00:17:34,053 --> 00:17:39,475
has torn jeans and, um,
a, uh, a bomber jacket.
293
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,394
I remember it was a brown
leather bomber jacket
294
00:17:41,477 --> 00:17:45,314
with a fur collar and it's pulled up
in the back so it's like, you know,
295
00:17:45,398 --> 00:17:48,484
he's got the collar up
and I... and I think,
296
00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:51,028
like a wifebeater kind of shirt on...
(CHUCKLING)
297
00:17:51,153 --> 00:17:55,700
...and he walks in and he's chain smoking,
I think he's unshaven, and you know,
298
00:17:55,825 --> 00:18:00,705
"Who is this guy?" And Howard had actually
been meeting with a number of other, uh,
299
00:18:00,871 --> 00:18:04,667
composers, but he chose to work with me,
and so we began working together.
300
00:18:05,167 --> 00:18:07,545
I remember first having
an impression, well look, you know,
301
00:18:07,628 --> 00:18:09,297
I'm going to, uh...
302
00:18:09,547 --> 00:18:12,049
You know, we'll sit down together
to write these songs and...
303
00:18:12,967 --> 00:18:15,303
I'll help him out because I'm a lyricist
304
00:18:15,386 --> 00:18:17,763
and he probably doesn't know
about that, but I'll try to make
305
00:18:17,847 --> 00:18:21,100
this as easy for him as possible,
and so I'd make some suggestions
306
00:18:21,183 --> 00:18:23,352
and I remember seeing his finger.
Howard had very long...
307
00:18:23,436 --> 00:18:25,479
Point... and his finger
would just point at the lyric,
308
00:18:25,605 --> 00:18:27,607
he said, "No, just do it like that."
309
00:18:27,857 --> 00:18:29,442
(LAUGHING) I said, "Okay."
310
00:18:30,318 --> 00:18:32,653
NANCY:
Howard had a very strong idea
311
00:18:32,778 --> 00:18:35,364
about, not just what the words
should sound like,
312
00:18:35,448 --> 00:18:37,325
but what the music should sound like.
313
00:18:37,575 --> 00:18:39,827
Even... Even though
he wasn't a composer
314
00:18:39,910 --> 00:18:44,332
and he didn't play a musical instrument,
he had a wonderful singing voice.
315
00:18:44,457 --> 00:18:47,501
And it was all in his head,
everything was in his head
316
00:18:47,835 --> 00:18:52,340
and I think he made Alan work really hard
to get it to sound exactly right.
317
00:18:53,257 --> 00:18:54,967
HOWARD:
I had been afraid of writing lyrics,
318
00:18:55,384 --> 00:18:57,470
and I was first drawn in with a lyricist
319
00:18:57,595 --> 00:19:00,389
and... and composer
as just the book writer,
320
00:19:00,473 --> 00:19:01,599
I got very frustrated.
321
00:19:02,058 --> 00:19:04,310
Um, I got very frustrated
'cause there were things I wanted
322
00:19:04,393 --> 00:19:08,773
the songs to do and I found it very...
I didn't know why I wasn't just doing it
323
00:19:09,231 --> 00:19:12,818
and I was shy about writing lyrics,
and then I... I started writing them.
324
00:19:12,943 --> 00:19:15,613
Found out not only that
I was fairly good at it, but mostly,
325
00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:18,658
that I like writing lyrics
better than anything in the world.
326
00:19:18,783 --> 00:19:22,620
Writing lyrics is a lot more fun
than writing, uh, dialogue for me.
327
00:19:23,579 --> 00:19:26,457
MALE SINGER: Welcome to a flowing font
Of truth and good and cash
328
00:19:27,541 --> 00:19:29,585
ALAN: And there, in front of me,
for the first time,
329
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:33,714
there was a... a lyric of Howard's
sitting in front of me at the piano
330
00:19:34,173 --> 00:19:37,802
and I remember the visceral sense
of what it was like
331
00:19:38,636 --> 00:19:42,890
to sit in front of a Howard Ashman lyric
for the first time.
332
00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:47,103
When Howard and I were in the room,
it was pure creative energy.
333
00:19:48,479 --> 00:19:53,275
It was no holds barred wrestling.
(LAUGHING)
334
00:19:54,193 --> 00:19:59,240
Um, there was only one rule,
and that rule is,
335
00:19:59,824 --> 00:20:03,202
don't leave this room without
a good idea and a good song.
336
00:20:03,828 --> 00:20:08,124
And, uh, you know, he would push,
he would cajole, he would be thrilled,
337
00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:12,837
he would sing, he would... you know, um,
I was never happier than when he said
338
00:20:12,962 --> 00:20:14,380
"That's it, that's it, that's it."
339
00:20:15,589 --> 00:20:18,426
Cheese nips, little cheese nips
340
00:20:18,968 --> 00:20:23,097
Bet they dip ‘em in Kraft sandwich spread
341
00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:26,183
Bet they’d eat a whole Velveeta
342
00:20:26,809 --> 00:20:28,686
Bet they’d love it, I wish I was dead
343
00:20:29,437 --> 00:20:31,355
ALAN: We were rehearsing,
you know, scene by scene,
344
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,316
and one day, um, the door opens...
345
00:20:35,484 --> 00:20:37,820
and I think, I just heard somebody go...
(GASPS)
346
00:20:38,362 --> 00:20:40,322
NANCY:
"Oh, my God! Kurt Vonnegut's here."
347
00:20:40,489 --> 00:20:42,658
(CHUCKLING)
And we were all looking at him,
348
00:20:42,742 --> 00:20:46,454
really nervously and, you know,
I just remember he... he kind of
349
00:20:46,579 --> 00:20:50,958
had a stern look... while he was listening
and watching everything.
350
00:20:51,584 --> 00:20:55,421
The rehearsal ended,
or the read-through ended, and we stopped
351
00:20:55,546 --> 00:20:59,467
and he just got up and with a big smile,
went skipping out of the room
352
00:20:59,550 --> 00:21:02,052
and we knew, "Okay... (LAUGHING)
...We're okay."
353
00:21:02,136 --> 00:21:04,805
He liked it. He liked us, he liked us.
354
00:21:06,557 --> 00:21:10,770
Rosewater got really good reviews
when it was at the WPA
355
00:21:11,145 --> 00:21:14,315
and Warner Brothers jumped on
as producer.
356
00:21:14,482 --> 00:21:17,443
It eventually moved
to the Entermedia Theater,
357
00:21:17,735 --> 00:21:21,363
but moving one of these little gems
didn't always translate.
358
00:21:21,906 --> 00:21:24,325
HOWARD:
It's... it's not a good idea anymore
359
00:21:24,617 --> 00:21:27,203
to take a small intimate story and do it
360
00:21:27,328 --> 00:21:30,706
with lots of wagon sets and treadmills
and encumber it
361
00:21:30,831 --> 00:21:36,003
with tons of realistic scenery
and, uh, and produce it on Broadway.
362
00:21:36,086 --> 00:21:41,300
It seems that the smaller the story,
the more, uh, people-oriented
363
00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:45,179
and less energy-oriented the story is,
the more it wants a smaller house.
364
00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:48,474
KYLE:
His specialty was not doing big.
365
00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:51,477
To me, it's always been...
366
00:21:52,311 --> 00:21:55,064
our first great lesson that what works
367
00:21:55,189 --> 00:22:00,277
in a tiny space like the WPA,
where your expectations are modest...
368
00:22:01,237 --> 00:22:04,240
and the element of surprise
is more present...
369
00:22:05,574 --> 00:22:08,327
and the people are
a few feet away from you,
370
00:22:08,869 --> 00:22:12,748
and they're talking about things
that you can relate to,
371
00:22:13,541 --> 00:22:17,878
is an entirely different experience
than paying top dollar
372
00:22:17,962 --> 00:22:21,549
and sitting in a larger theater
where you're at a distance
373
00:22:21,924 --> 00:22:24,385
and you're, perhaps,
feeling more judgmental.
374
00:22:25,469 --> 00:22:30,057
And it was... an almost total nightmare.
375
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:33,102
NANCY:
The producer sent from Warner Brothers,
376
00:22:33,227 --> 00:22:36,897
she, at one point,
wanted to, um, fire Howard
377
00:22:37,273 --> 00:22:39,441
and there was a lot of tension.
378
00:22:40,526 --> 00:22:42,027
KYLE:
It failed completely.
379
00:22:42,278 --> 00:22:43,696
Walter Kerr...
380
00:22:44,947 --> 00:22:48,951
not... not only dismissed, but trashed it
in the New York Times.
381
00:22:50,786 --> 00:22:55,416
After my adaptation
of God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater was done,
382
00:22:56,166 --> 00:22:58,127
which had been something
of a succès d'estime
383
00:22:58,252 --> 00:22:59,545
and had been very successful
384
00:22:59,670 --> 00:23:01,922
off-off-Broadway,
much less successful commercially.
385
00:23:02,381 --> 00:23:05,968
um, I decided that the next thing I did
was going to be something
386
00:23:06,093 --> 00:23:09,555
attention-grabbing with a cast
of not more than eight people.
387
00:23:10,097 --> 00:23:12,516
Um, and also,
that it would have some
388
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,476
sort of large gimmick sitting
in the middle of it
389
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,978
so that people would have to notice.
390
00:23:16,061 --> 00:23:19,231
-I'm hungry.
-I don't care what you are.
391
00:23:19,732 --> 00:23:22,693
Can't you see I'm knocked out?
I just killed a man.
392
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:24,236
I'm a murderer.
393
00:23:24,528 --> 00:23:25,613
(MUSIC PLAYING)
394
00:23:25,738 --> 00:23:27,990
HOWARD: I saw the film
when I was about 14 years old
395
00:23:28,115 --> 00:23:32,494
and, uh, I think it was past my bedtime
and I was lying in my room
396
00:23:32,578 --> 00:23:35,372
down in the basement and it came on
and it was a...
397
00:23:35,456 --> 00:23:38,834
It's a tongue-in-cheek horror film.
It was a horror spoof,
398
00:23:39,209 --> 00:23:41,420
and I thought
it was maybe the wittiest thing
399
00:23:41,503 --> 00:23:43,130
I'd ever seen. (CHUCKLING)
400
00:23:43,213 --> 00:23:45,799
It was a very strange
sort of cultural phenomenon
401
00:23:45,925 --> 00:23:49,887
because legend has it that it's
one of the lowest budget films ever made.
402
00:23:49,970 --> 00:23:55,434
Um, it was made in two days on a bet
in 1960 on the set of another film.
403
00:23:55,768 --> 00:23:56,977
The plant is a lot of fun.
404
00:23:57,061 --> 00:24:00,064
It's the...
It's the plant that attracted me to it.
405
00:24:00,356 --> 00:24:04,193
Nobody has done, to my knowledge,
a monster movie for the stage.
406
00:24:04,276 --> 00:24:06,654
We've had horror pieces for the stage.
I don't think we've had
407
00:24:06,737 --> 00:24:10,240
a genuine monster epic for the stage.
408
00:24:10,616 --> 00:24:14,036
NANCY: And I just remember,
we were sitting around and he goes,
409
00:24:14,161 --> 00:24:16,080
"That's gonna be my next project."
410
00:24:16,872 --> 00:24:20,876
And we just looked at him and said,
"You're crazy. This is horrible.
411
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,922
"It's a cheesy, stupid movie.
Don't do that."
412
00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:27,007
And he... he's so funny
413
00:24:27,091 --> 00:24:29,176
'cause he, of course,
didn't listen to anybody.
414
00:24:29,259 --> 00:24:31,845
Didn't care... (CHUCKLING)
...what we had to say.
415
00:24:32,054 --> 00:24:35,933
And just said, "No. I... I think
this is it. This is the one."
416
00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:38,185
HOWARD:
The first thing is to make,
417
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:41,855
with any adaptation,
is to make the story coherent.
418
00:24:42,398 --> 00:24:48,821
Musicals need fairly simple and direct
and convincing plot structure
419
00:24:49,154 --> 00:24:50,948
because you get to talk so little.
420
00:24:51,323 --> 00:24:54,284
Um, the plot of the film
of Little Shop of Horrors
421
00:24:54,410 --> 00:24:56,578
falls apart in the second half,
and it's...
422
00:24:56,704 --> 00:25:01,000
it's, uh, funny and it's all great get-out
when you're 12, and when you're 30,
423
00:25:01,375 --> 00:25:03,460
you know, you get bored
after the first half hour
424
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:05,546
unless you're stoned and still in college.
425
00:25:05,713 --> 00:25:08,424
Oh, my God! Don't stop now!
426
00:25:08,924 --> 00:25:11,051
HOWARD: When you're adapting,
you're taking a point...
427
00:25:11,176 --> 00:25:12,511
Adapting is like reading
428
00:25:12,636 --> 00:25:14,638
and talking to a friend
about what you read.
429
00:25:14,805 --> 00:25:18,267
Adapting is saying, "This is
what struck me about that thing I saw,
430
00:25:18,392 --> 00:25:21,353
"about that that I read, about this...
this story that appeals to me."
431
00:25:21,979 --> 00:25:27,234
Um, and so the process of communicating
your experience to another person
432
00:25:27,317 --> 00:25:29,111
is what adaptation is.
433
00:25:29,236 --> 00:25:32,906
I saw the film as hip and funny and smart
in a certain way and I want you
434
00:25:33,032 --> 00:25:36,035
to have the experience
that I had when I saw that film
435
00:25:36,118 --> 00:25:40,289
so I transform it, and that's directing,
that's book writing, that's lyric writing,
436
00:25:40,414 --> 00:25:44,084
that's... that's conceptual work,
and to me, that's all one thing.
437
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:48,964
ALAN: Howard changed my life permanently
in terms of my approach to songwriting
438
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,427
in his embrace of writing in a style.
439
00:25:53,552 --> 00:25:55,804
He wanted it to be
as close as possible to that style.
440
00:25:56,388 --> 00:25:59,933
And the initial approach to it was,
you know, very kind of jazzy
441
00:26:00,017 --> 00:26:04,646
and just off-beat, as in
the original Corman movie,
442
00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:08,233
and then we kinda scrapped it and came
back to it when Howard said, you know,
443
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,485
"The idea is we're gonna...
444
00:26:09,568 --> 00:26:11,403
"we should do this
as the dark side of Grease."
445
00:26:12,237 --> 00:26:15,282
MALE ACTOR AS SEYMOUR: Well, you remember
that total eclipse of the sun
446
00:26:15,365 --> 00:26:16,784
a few weeks ago?
447
00:26:16,909 --> 00:26:17,951
MALE SINGER:
Da-doo
448
00:26:18,118 --> 00:26:21,163
MALE ACTOR AS SEYMOUR: I was walking
in the wholesale flower district that day.
449
00:26:21,914 --> 00:26:25,626
KYLE: It should be doo-wop rock n' roll
and Phil Spector girl group rock n' roll.
450
00:26:26,085 --> 00:26:28,879
And that made so much sense
and it just,
451
00:26:29,421 --> 00:26:31,006
you know, totally came together.
452
00:26:31,423 --> 00:26:33,634
That's how it was born.
I had my own theater, the WPA.
453
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:38,180
My agent said it was a darn good thing
I did because no one would produce
454
00:26:38,347 --> 00:26:42,267
such a crazed notion. She saw the film
and told me I was out of my mind.
455
00:26:42,684 --> 00:26:44,645
Heard the first draft
and said she liked it, but she could...
456
00:26:44,728 --> 00:26:46,271
that I would never be able
to get it produced.
457
00:26:46,438 --> 00:26:49,650
So, we produced it ourselves at the WPA
and it was, more or less,
458
00:26:49,817 --> 00:26:51,193
instantly successful.
459
00:26:51,318 --> 00:26:53,612
MALE NARRATOR: Never before in the history
of the American stage
460
00:26:53,737 --> 00:26:54,947
have you seen such high drama...
461
00:26:55,030 --> 00:26:58,534
You don't meet nice boys
when you live on Skid Row, Mr. Mushnik.
462
00:26:58,784 --> 00:26:59,910
MALE NARRATOR:
...suspense...
463
00:26:59,993 --> 00:27:01,787
...blew their guts all over the floor.
464
00:27:01,870 --> 00:27:03,038
MALE NARRATOR:
...and romance.
465
00:27:03,122 --> 00:27:05,040
Suddenly Seymour
466
00:27:05,165 --> 00:27:09,711
MALE NARRATOR: It's bone chilling,
it's spine tingling, it's a musical,
467
00:27:10,003 --> 00:27:12,297
it's Little Shop of Horrors.
468
00:27:12,631 --> 00:27:16,468
Here is Howard Ashman,
he is the writer, lyricist, and director
469
00:27:16,718 --> 00:27:20,264
of Little Shop of Horrors
which is running at The Orpheum Theatre.
470
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:22,307
-That's right.
-BOGGS: And it's a very funny play.
471
00:27:22,391 --> 00:27:27,437
It was named by the Outer Critics Circle
and it also got Drama Desk Award
472
00:27:27,521 --> 00:27:29,731
for outstanding lyrics
for the Little Shop of Horrors.
473
00:27:29,857 --> 00:27:31,664
-Yeah, the Drama Critics' Circle too.
-BOGGS: Must feel great...
474
00:27:31,739 --> 00:27:34,236
-Hmm? And the Drama Critics' Circle too...
-BOGGS: What was that?
475
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:35,468
-...that's the inner.
-BOGGS: Congratulations,
476
00:27:35,568 --> 00:27:36,613
it must feel wonderful
477
00:27:36,738 --> 00:27:39,825
to be able to put something like this
together, make it happen
478
00:27:39,950 --> 00:27:42,809
and have it run.
You're a real trailblazer, as he said.
479
00:27:42,909 --> 00:27:44,413
-HOWARD: Yeah, that's very kind of him.
-JERRY: Yeah.
480
00:27:44,496 --> 00:27:45,873
-It's true.
-HOWARD: That's very kind of him.
481
00:27:45,956 --> 00:27:46,915
I feel like a granddaddy.
482
00:27:46,999 --> 00:27:49,334
-(WOMAN CHUCKLING)
-BOGGS: Now this is what I wanna find out.
483
00:27:49,418 --> 00:27:51,837
Why did this man say you're a trailblazer?
484
00:27:51,962 --> 00:27:53,839
What did you do
that really nobody had done
485
00:27:53,922 --> 00:27:55,674
quite as well or succinctly before?
486
00:27:55,757 --> 00:27:59,303
Personally, I didn't do anything but I...
As I said to Jerry,
487
00:27:59,386 --> 00:28:01,221
Godspell blazed the trail for us.
488
00:28:01,471 --> 00:28:04,725
There's a history in New York
of off-Broadway musicals
489
00:28:05,017 --> 00:28:07,686
and I guess it goes back
to Threepenny Opera at the Theater de Lys
490
00:28:07,811 --> 00:28:10,480
in... in the mid '50s.
And then there's Dames at Sea,
491
00:28:10,606 --> 00:28:13,233
which I was trying to write
the Dames at Sea of horror movies
492
00:28:13,317 --> 00:28:14,943
-when I wrote Little Shop.
-BOGGS: Uh-huh.
493
00:28:15,027 --> 00:28:18,071
I was patterning myself
after a very, uh...
494
00:28:19,072 --> 00:28:22,075
-I don't know, a very succinct kind of...
-BOGGS: A form.
495
00:28:22,201 --> 00:28:23,368
A kind of form and genre.
496
00:28:23,452 --> 00:28:27,623
Little Shop of Horrors
is very, very, very deliberately
497
00:28:27,789 --> 00:28:30,417
-a conventional American musical comedy.
-Right.
498
00:28:30,542 --> 00:28:32,753
In fact, it's... it's parodying
American musical comedy.
499
00:28:32,836 --> 00:28:34,129
-BOGGS: Uh-huh.
-The second number
500
00:28:34,213 --> 00:28:35,964
is the one
where the girl sits on the trashcan
501
00:28:36,048 --> 00:28:37,633
-and sings about what she wants...
-Right.
502
00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:40,636
...like Eliza Doolittle did
once upon a time and Fiona Mc...
503
00:28:40,719 --> 00:28:42,054
Whatever her name is in Brigadoon.
504
00:28:42,137 --> 00:28:43,972
Women have been doing that in musicals
for years.
505
00:28:44,139 --> 00:28:47,601
The difference is that our girl,
Audrey, is... is singing
506
00:28:47,684 --> 00:28:52,606
about a toaster and a tract house
and, uh, a garbage disposal, uh,
507
00:28:52,689 --> 00:28:54,900
-instead of a castle in the sky somewhere.
-BOGGS: Right.
508
00:28:55,067 --> 00:28:58,737
A matchbox of our own
509
00:28:59,863 --> 00:29:03,784
A fence of real chain-link
510
00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:07,871
A grill out on the patio
511
00:29:08,038 --> 00:29:11,750
Disposal in the sink
512
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,337
A washer and a dryer
513
00:29:15,879 --> 00:29:20,008
And an ironing machine
514
00:29:21,093 --> 00:29:24,596
In a tract house that we share
515
00:29:24,972 --> 00:29:28,392
Somewhere that's green
516
00:29:28,517 --> 00:29:31,061
KYLE: It felt like you were just
seeing something
517
00:29:31,186 --> 00:29:33,981
that... that these really,
really talented people
518
00:29:34,064 --> 00:29:38,652
had thrown together in a garage somewhere,
and somehow, they got these great actors
519
00:29:38,735 --> 00:29:41,488
and these great sets and costumes
and they're putting on
520
00:29:41,571 --> 00:29:46,410
this incredibly professional-looking show
in this dump, you know? (CHUCKLING)
521
00:29:46,660 --> 00:29:49,037
KYLE: Howard was very clear
when we did Little Shop of Horrors
522
00:29:49,121 --> 00:29:50,789
that it had to stay off-Broadway.
523
00:29:51,665 --> 00:29:56,461
And there was a lot of energy
suggesting that, "Well, if... if the show
524
00:29:56,545 --> 00:29:58,380
"is gonna be...
if it's gonna be a big show,
525
00:29:58,463 --> 00:29:59,715
it has to be on Broadway."
526
00:30:00,257 --> 00:30:03,427
But then there came that magic moment
that Roger Corman said
527
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:05,846
"You know, this is perfect,
you walk out of the...
528
00:30:06,138 --> 00:30:09,266
"the, uh... this theater
and there you are on Skid Row."
529
00:30:10,267 --> 00:30:14,771
We had offers from about 30 producers
in New York and we went
530
00:30:14,855 --> 00:30:18,400
with the Shubert Organization,
David Geffen and, uh, Cameron Mackintosh
531
00:30:18,483 --> 00:30:21,153
from London, um,
as a sort of conglomerate,
532
00:30:21,278 --> 00:30:23,780
and they moved it from the WPA
into the Orpheum,
533
00:30:24,156 --> 00:30:26,116
uh, where it's been...
where's wood to knock?
534
00:30:26,199 --> 00:30:27,784
-(KNOCKS)
-Ever since.
535
00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:30,954
EBERT: Our next movie
is named Little Shop of Horrors
536
00:30:31,038 --> 00:30:33,832
and this movie has finally done
what so many movies have been trying to do
537
00:30:33,915 --> 00:30:36,668
for a long time now, it captures
some of the same magic
538
00:30:36,752 --> 00:30:38,086
as The Rocky Horror Picture Show,
539
00:30:38,170 --> 00:30:40,422
which, of course,
is a long-running cult hit,
540
00:30:40,505 --> 00:30:43,633
and I think that this movie
might be the next big cult film.
541
00:30:43,717 --> 00:30:45,844
Feed me, Krelborn. Feed me now.
542
00:30:45,927 --> 00:30:46,970
(GROANS)
543
00:30:47,262 --> 00:30:50,807
It was quite successful as a film,
and why was it successful?
544
00:30:50,891 --> 00:30:54,811
I think it probably has something to do
with the fact that the use of music
545
00:30:54,936 --> 00:30:59,358
within the piece... is not straight,
doesn't take itself seriously
546
00:30:59,649 --> 00:31:01,568
as opposed to, uh,
547
00:31:01,693 --> 00:31:04,863
the West Side Story approach,
where things are absolutely serious
548
00:31:04,946 --> 00:31:06,865
and we're supposed to pretend
they're not singing.
549
00:31:06,948 --> 00:31:09,868
Um, here, we're always working with
tongue-in-cheek,
550
00:31:09,951 --> 00:31:12,079
and I think that's probably easier
for people to accept,
551
00:31:12,162 --> 00:31:16,917
A, and B, the music is in a... pop style
552
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,545
and they're generous toward it,
they'll accept it, uh, in a way
553
00:31:20,629 --> 00:31:22,839
they may not accept
the more operetta-like style
554
00:31:22,923 --> 00:31:24,883
that most of our musical theater
is written in,
555
00:31:25,133 --> 00:31:26,718
so I just think I'm real lucky.
556
00:31:29,054 --> 00:31:31,014
BILL:
I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio
557
00:31:31,598 --> 00:31:34,643
and I was adopted at the age
of about three months.
558
00:31:34,851 --> 00:31:38,313
We grew up in Cincinnati,
I went through Catholic schools
559
00:31:38,522 --> 00:31:41,149
and managed to get kicked out
of a Jesuit high school
560
00:31:41,274 --> 00:31:42,692
when I was a junior...
(CHUCKLING)
561
00:31:42,859 --> 00:31:46,988
...and then went on to Ohio State,
um, up in Columbus.
562
00:31:47,322 --> 00:31:51,785
And, um, started out right away
knowing I wanted to go into architecture.
563
00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:54,913
The end of December 1979, I graduated
564
00:31:55,372 --> 00:31:59,334
and I came to visit my uncle
in New York City at that time
565
00:31:59,418 --> 00:32:04,381
and I brought my portfolio and resume
and I went around to a couple, uh, offices
566
00:32:04,506 --> 00:32:08,176
that he had worked with and I got a...
a job offer from one of them.
567
00:32:08,343 --> 00:32:12,264
So, in January 1980,
I moved into a studio apartment
568
00:32:12,347 --> 00:32:16,893
on West 34th Street, and that started
my adventures in New York City.
569
00:32:18,311 --> 00:32:21,565
It was a Saturday night, I think, at a...
at a bar in the Village
570
00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:26,027
and I imagine Howard had probably been
to see Little Shop that night
571
00:32:26,111 --> 00:32:31,616
and, um, we just sort of locked eyes
and, uh, started talking
572
00:32:31,741 --> 00:32:34,411
and, uh, we... we just really clicked.
573
00:32:34,578 --> 00:32:38,957
Um, a few days later, he called
and asked if he could take me on a date,
574
00:32:39,374 --> 00:32:41,418
and I said,
"Sure. I'd love to go on a date."
575
00:32:41,626 --> 00:32:43,837
He said, "Ha... Have you ever been
to the Grammys?"
576
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,965
Little Shop, Little Shop o' Horrors
577
00:32:47,048 --> 00:32:49,009
BILL:
He said, "Well, my cast album is nominated
578
00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:51,052
and I wondered
if you'd like to go with me."
579
00:32:51,303 --> 00:32:55,807
Uh, but, um, you know,
we really started seeing each other
580
00:32:55,932 --> 00:32:57,893
very seriously, uh, quickly.
581
00:32:58,059 --> 00:33:01,813
We had sorta had this flush of cash
from Little Shop, and so he said,
582
00:33:01,897 --> 00:33:04,566
um, you know, "I'd like to rent a place
for the summer
583
00:33:04,691 --> 00:33:06,276
"and let's go look at some things,"
584
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:09,738
so we did and by, uh,
Memorial Day, you know,
585
00:33:10,113 --> 00:33:13,283
we were kind of playing house together
in East Hampton.
586
00:33:13,658 --> 00:33:16,328
NANCY: Bill, for Howard,
was very much an anchor.
587
00:33:16,578 --> 00:33:21,958
He was the life partner
that he always envisioned himself having
588
00:33:22,334 --> 00:33:27,464
'cause he wanted somebody
who was true and loyal and stable.
589
00:33:28,048 --> 00:33:31,510
BILL: The commitment to each other
just occurred in a natural way.
590
00:33:31,593 --> 00:33:36,014
We didn't ever sort of sit down and say,
"Well, let's, you know, let's build a life
591
00:33:36,097 --> 00:33:39,851
"together, let's..." Uh, I think when...
I think the real commitment came
592
00:33:39,935 --> 00:33:42,812
when we said,
"Let's build a house together."
593
00:33:43,230 --> 00:33:47,150
NANCY: I think the house was a symbol
of their relationship, of, you know,
594
00:33:47,234 --> 00:33:52,447
Howard's belief in Bill,
Howard's loyalty to Bill, saying,
595
00:33:52,572 --> 00:33:57,077
you know, "Here is this ar...
young architect and I'd love to see him
596
00:33:57,202 --> 00:33:58,870
"create something wonderful
597
00:33:58,954 --> 00:34:02,791
"and we'll live in it
and it'll be, uh, you know, amazing."
598
00:34:03,166 --> 00:34:05,335
BILL:
After two years together, we were...
599
00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:09,256
we were well aware that we were committed
to one another
600
00:34:09,381 --> 00:34:12,467
and that we were in a, uh,
a real relationship,
601
00:34:12,551 --> 00:34:14,594
a spousal-type relationship.
602
00:34:18,098 --> 00:34:20,308
Federal health officials
consider it an epidemic
603
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:22,227
yet you rarely hear a thing about it.
604
00:34:22,561 --> 00:34:25,564
At first, it seemed to strike
only one segment of the population.
605
00:34:25,689 --> 00:34:28,900
Now, Barry Peterson tells us
this is no longer the case.
606
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:31,319
BARRY: Bobby Campbell
is fighting for his life,
607
00:34:31,486 --> 00:34:33,196
one of a rapidly growing group
608
00:34:33,321 --> 00:34:36,825
whose battle has fascinated
and frightened modern medicine.
609
00:34:37,325 --> 00:34:40,620
There is a one-in-five chance
a victim will die within the first year
610
00:34:40,745 --> 00:34:41,830
of the illness.
611
00:34:41,997 --> 00:34:44,624
It's a disease first detected
in the gay community
612
00:34:44,749 --> 00:34:46,501
that has now spread beyond that.
613
00:34:46,668 --> 00:34:50,255
A disease experts are now calling
a national epidemic.
614
00:34:50,338 --> 00:34:54,301
There are more lives claimed,
victims claimed than...
615
00:34:54,509 --> 00:34:58,680
than toxic shock
and Legionnaires' disease combined,
616
00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:01,474
and yet most of the country
doesn't know about this cancer.
617
00:35:01,558 --> 00:35:03,059
-FEMALE JOURNALIST: Why?
-Well, I think,
618
00:35:03,143 --> 00:35:04,436
it's because it's a gay cancer.
619
00:35:06,605 --> 00:35:12,068
SARAH: I remember, um, Howard calling me
and saying, "Have you heard about...
620
00:35:12,319 --> 00:35:15,238
"have you heard about the, um,
the gay cancer?
621
00:35:17,991 --> 00:35:19,117
"Stuart has it."
622
00:35:21,244 --> 00:35:24,664
When Stuart was sick, Nancy and I
had got on the phone with Stuart
623
00:35:25,498 --> 00:35:28,168
and we hadn't spoken to him for years
because when they broke up,
624
00:35:28,293 --> 00:35:34,007
we just went with Howard and...
and we were very, very angry with him,
625
00:35:34,132 --> 00:35:36,384
but we both called him,
we caught up a little bit
626
00:35:36,509 --> 00:35:40,055
and we said... He was living
in Connecticut and we said we wanted
627
00:35:40,138 --> 00:35:42,557
to come see him
and he said when he felt a little better,
628
00:35:42,641 --> 00:35:44,601
he didn't want anybody
to see him right then.
629
00:35:45,518 --> 00:35:49,356
KYLE: Stuart became sick
before we even were clear
630
00:35:49,439 --> 00:35:54,569
on what we were calling the disease.
I... think we all felt
631
00:35:54,653 --> 00:35:58,531
that he was going to recover...
and he didn't.
632
00:36:00,116 --> 00:36:03,620
NANCY: It affected all of us,
and it especially affected Howard
633
00:36:03,745 --> 00:36:08,416
because they grew up together
as young men and...
634
00:36:09,793 --> 00:36:14,964
they... they... they had such...
They had a tumultuous, passionate,
635
00:36:15,507 --> 00:36:19,427
uh, and artistic relationship
that was so important
636
00:36:19,594 --> 00:36:21,763
to all... both of their development.
637
00:36:23,056 --> 00:36:27,560
KYLE: When Howard realized
that he was going to die, um,
638
00:36:27,977 --> 00:36:29,270
the fact that they had been...
639
00:36:29,354 --> 00:36:34,109
that they had had a deep love
became more important than the fact
640
00:36:34,234 --> 00:36:38,196
that they'd had an emotional break-up.
And he went to visit him all the time.
641
00:36:38,405 --> 00:36:43,368
NANCY: And then Howard also lost
a really close friend named David Evans.
642
00:36:44,327 --> 00:36:48,832
And David died from AIDS,
so by this point in time,
643
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,794
Howard was saying goodbye
to so many people.
644
00:36:53,545 --> 00:36:56,256
BILL:
He wanted to... to do something creatively
645
00:36:56,381 --> 00:36:58,508
that expressed his state of mind
646
00:36:58,633 --> 00:37:01,970
about it that he couldn't really express
in another way.
647
00:37:02,095 --> 00:37:06,683
Sheridan Square was, sort of, the heart
of the gay culture in New York City
648
00:37:06,933 --> 00:37:11,938
and I think he wanted to...
to reference that place as a community
649
00:37:12,063 --> 00:37:13,857
in grieving and loss.
650
00:37:14,441 --> 00:37:21,364
And if some good rises out of everything
Then the phoenix is rising there
651
00:37:22,824 --> 00:37:28,246
In the eyes that are scared
But softer tonight
652
00:37:29,497 --> 00:37:34,252
On Sheridan Square
653
00:37:34,335 --> 00:37:35,545
BILL: It was painful
654
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:39,507
because everyone had friends and lovers
who were getting sick and dying
655
00:37:39,591 --> 00:37:43,553
and it was incredibly scary
because you never knew
656
00:37:43,678 --> 00:37:45,597
when it was gonna be your turn.
657
00:37:49,726 --> 00:37:52,270
MALE REPORTER: The most popular
spectator sport in America
658
00:37:52,562 --> 00:37:57,275
is not the Super Bowl
or the Olympics or the World Series.
659
00:37:57,358 --> 00:37:58,860
(MUSIC PLAYING)
660
00:37:59,486 --> 00:38:01,029
MALE REPORTER:
It's the beauty pageant.
661
00:38:01,112 --> 00:38:03,865
NANCY: So, the next show
that Howard decided to tackle
662
00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:05,784
after Little Shop of Horrors
663
00:38:05,867 --> 00:38:09,579
was a musical adaptation
of the movie Smile.
664
00:38:09,913 --> 00:38:14,375
She's a typical high school senior
She is thoughtful and bright and clean
665
00:38:14,459 --> 00:38:16,795
-She is caring and kind
-She reads books to the blind
666
00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:19,172
-She's no older than 17
-And she usually works on...
667
00:38:19,422 --> 00:38:21,716
MARVIN:
This show sings, this is a musical.
668
00:38:22,050 --> 00:38:23,760
This is begging to be a musical.
669
00:38:23,885 --> 00:38:26,763
If we don't do it right,
we made a mistake.
670
00:38:27,096 --> 00:38:31,267
People having careers like mine
just don't get to do this very often,
671
00:38:31,476 --> 00:38:33,895
and it's a gift to be able to do it.
672
00:38:34,270 --> 00:38:36,189
JODI:
Up comes this audition for Smile
673
00:38:36,314 --> 00:38:40,235
and there's this great new show,
Howard Ashman, Marvin Hamlisch.
674
00:38:40,318 --> 00:38:42,028
I'm like, "Oh, my gosh!
Are you kidding me?"
675
00:38:42,111 --> 00:38:44,572
'Cause my first LP that I ever bought
676
00:38:44,823 --> 00:38:48,743
was A Chorus Line and a chorus
Little Shop was another one
677
00:38:48,827 --> 00:38:51,412
that you just... You knew everything
about it, so I thought,
678
00:38:51,496 --> 00:38:52,831
"This is gonna be incredible."
679
00:38:53,248 --> 00:38:58,461
JODI SINGING:
Find my way to Disneyland
680
00:38:59,128 --> 00:39:04,551
Gotta get to Disneyland
681
00:39:04,884 --> 00:39:09,514
I had six callbacks, so I went in
and of course, you know,
682
00:39:09,597 --> 00:39:13,226
Marvin's eating his corned beef pastrami,
some type of really big,
683
00:39:13,309 --> 00:39:16,312
messy New York sandwich
that when you take a bite,
684
00:39:16,437 --> 00:39:19,566
everything falls out,
but Howard was always so sweet
685
00:39:19,691 --> 00:39:24,153
and so attentive, he'd sit at the edge
of his chair and he would take
686
00:39:24,279 --> 00:39:28,616
these notes and you could see
he was on a mission.
687
00:39:28,741 --> 00:39:32,662
He fought for an actress who could sing,
not a singer who could act,
688
00:39:32,745 --> 00:39:38,668
he really did, and it was at that moment
that I thought, "I have work with this guy
689
00:39:38,793 --> 00:39:40,920
"'cause he gets actors."
690
00:39:41,212 --> 00:39:42,630
(PIANO MUSIC PLAYING)
691
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,509
I sense a feeling in this place
It's making me a basket case
692
00:39:46,593 --> 00:39:49,178
The stakes are too high,
They unnerve and unglue me
693
00:39:49,262 --> 00:39:52,056
I'm so strung out, I'm so done in
I hope it won't affect my skin
694
00:39:52,140 --> 00:39:54,809
I'm too young to die
Why's it happening to me?
695
00:39:55,518 --> 00:40:01,190
NANCY: For Howard, it was the realization
of a dream and his passion
696
00:40:01,274 --> 00:40:04,819
and this was the opportunity
working with this stellar cast,
697
00:40:04,944 --> 00:40:07,447
working with someone of Marvin's caliber.
698
00:40:07,572 --> 00:40:09,782
This was his ticket to Broadway.
699
00:40:09,866 --> 00:40:11,409
I think it's going well. I think it's...
700
00:40:11,492 --> 00:40:12,869
The bottom line is,
I think it's going well.
701
00:40:12,952 --> 00:40:15,622
We are absolutely,
as far as I'm concerned, on target
702
00:40:15,705 --> 00:40:18,207
where we have to be now
and what we have to do.
703
00:40:18,333 --> 00:40:21,044
We know exactly what we have to do
between now and December 11th.
704
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,297
DIANE:
December 11th, the backer's audition.
705
00:40:24,589 --> 00:40:25,840
Everybody's here,
706
00:40:26,007 --> 00:40:29,802
including record company magnate
and producer, David Geffen,
707
00:40:30,261 --> 00:40:32,931
and representatives
from the Shubert Organization,
708
00:40:33,056 --> 00:40:35,350
Broadway's most powerful producers.
709
00:40:36,017 --> 00:40:39,270
The question is, "Will they come up
with the rest of the money
710
00:40:39,395 --> 00:40:42,607
or does the curtain go down on Smile
right here?
711
00:40:42,690 --> 00:40:44,275
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING\}
-DIANE: The answer?
712
00:40:44,359 --> 00:40:46,027
It was nearly a disaster.
713
00:40:47,236 --> 00:40:49,948
NANCY: When the workshop was done,
it was really good
714
00:40:50,073 --> 00:40:54,494
in this small, confined space,
but the idea of moving it forward
715
00:40:54,577 --> 00:40:58,331
and putting it on Broadway
was going to be very expensive,
716
00:40:58,414 --> 00:41:02,335
a big production, and I think
the producers got nervous.
717
00:41:02,669 --> 00:41:08,508
SARAH: Shubert and Geffen said no,
and Howard did not take well to no,
718
00:41:08,633 --> 00:41:12,762
and wasn't used to getting no,
and was kind of shocked by that.
719
00:41:13,137 --> 00:41:16,641
BILL: I don't know. I don't know
what it was that scared David
720
00:41:16,766 --> 00:41:19,394
and the Shubert Organization,
the way they didn't tell Howard
721
00:41:19,477 --> 00:41:20,561
but it hurt him.
722
00:41:20,812 --> 00:41:22,563
SARAH:
I think, to him, it felt disloyal.
723
00:41:22,814 --> 00:41:25,274
Understanding that there was a great deal
of money to be lost,
724
00:41:25,692 --> 00:41:28,569
um, but still, I think,
to him, it felt disloyal.
725
00:41:28,736 --> 00:41:31,698
NANCY: Howard was going to persevere,
no matter what.
726
00:41:31,823 --> 00:41:37,328
Um, Marvin and he were finally able
to get other producers on board,
727
00:41:37,453 --> 00:41:42,333
raise the money that they were gonna need,
and continue with the production.
728
00:41:42,458 --> 00:41:48,673
JODI: You could definitely see the shift
of pressure really going onto Marvin
729
00:41:48,756 --> 00:41:53,136
and Howard and a lot more of the arguing
between the two of them.
730
00:41:53,428 --> 00:41:58,766
KYLE: They never really clicked in... in
a way that made the writing process easy.
731
00:41:59,350 --> 00:42:02,645
MARVIN: Mm. See, up to now it felt right.
(VOCALIZING)
732
00:42:03,927 --> 00:42:05,537
-HOWARD: Let me tell you something.
-MARVIN: Yeah, go ahead.
733
00:42:05,587 --> 00:42:06,566
-HOWARD: Honestly.
-MARVIN: Yeah?
734
00:42:06,649 --> 00:42:08,115
-MARVIN: That's not gonna be the melody...
-HOWARD: But...
735
00:42:08,190 --> 00:42:09,569
-...is it?
-...but the problem with "Winners All"
736
00:42:09,694 --> 00:42:11,237
-MARVIN: Right.
-HOWARD: The problem with that
737
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:12,572
as the hook is this.
738
00:42:12,822 --> 00:42:17,744
They say some got to lose
But we don't care to lose
739
00:42:17,827 --> 00:42:23,166
If I do that, if I...
it's grammatically so inconsistent to say
740
00:42:23,291 --> 00:42:25,168
"some win, some lose,
but we're winners all".
741
00:42:25,251 --> 00:42:26,919
-It makes no sense at all.
-HOWARD: Uh-huh.
742
00:42:27,045 --> 00:42:28,504
MARVIN:
That's what's driving me crazy.
743
00:42:28,713 --> 00:42:30,214
KYLE:
Marvin was the star.
744
00:42:30,298 --> 00:42:33,384
Howard didn't have the Tony
and the Pulitzer and the... (CHUCKLING)
745
00:42:33,509 --> 00:42:36,387
...Oscars and...
that... that Marvin did,
746
00:42:36,804 --> 00:42:41,642
so he couldn't really pull his...
his weight with decisions.
747
00:42:42,518 --> 00:42:45,480
-FEMALE JOURNALIST: Is it a hit?
-Who knows?
748
00:42:46,564 --> 00:42:48,441
NANCY:
The opening night audience in New York,
749
00:42:49,025 --> 00:42:53,654
we went crazy for it. We...
We loved it. We just loved it.
750
00:42:54,363 --> 00:42:56,115
SARAH:
After the show, we went
751
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:59,494
over to the New York Times building
to wait for the paper.
752
00:42:59,660 --> 00:43:02,205
The other person going over there
was Marvin Hamlisch,
753
00:43:02,830 --> 00:43:06,334
and we didn't have to look at the paper
'cause we actually stood there
754
00:43:06,417 --> 00:43:10,004
and watched Marvin's face fall,
and we just knew.
755
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:13,257
JODI:
I truly don't think I saw Marvin again.
756
00:43:13,549 --> 00:43:16,511
He just became reclusive and disappeared.
757
00:43:17,178 --> 00:43:18,554
KYLE:
And that was it.
758
00:43:18,638 --> 00:43:22,266
Howard just knew that that...
that was probably gonna end it.
759
00:43:23,184 --> 00:43:24,685
NANCY:
He was pissed.
760
00:43:24,811 --> 00:43:27,772
He was really mad
at the New York theater community.
761
00:43:28,106 --> 00:43:29,273
Really mad.
762
00:43:30,233 --> 00:43:37,156
I feel my self-confidence
Constantly shrinking, Mom
763
00:43:37,949 --> 00:43:44,622
What am I doing here?
What was I thinking?
764
00:43:44,747 --> 00:43:47,375
NANCY: I don't think I'd ever seen
anything stop him.
765
00:43:47,875 --> 00:43:50,586
I don't think I ever before
had seen anything...
766
00:43:51,504 --> 00:43:55,675
let... the wind out of his sails,
and this certainly did that.
767
00:43:56,259 --> 00:43:58,219
It was really devastating.
768
00:43:58,803 --> 00:44:03,933
I think he felt, maybe, ashamed,
and he needed to get away
769
00:44:04,016 --> 00:44:07,395
and be out of town
and not be seen by anybody,
770
00:44:07,812 --> 00:44:11,607
and I think that's why Jeffrey caught him
at just the right time.
771
00:44:12,233 --> 00:44:15,069
DON: Jeffrey Katzenberg was the head
of Walt Disney Studios at the time
772
00:44:15,194 --> 00:44:17,697
and he had been courting Howard
to come to L.A.
773
00:44:17,905 --> 00:44:20,658
"Dear Howard, I'm glad we had a chance
to get together.
774
00:44:20,825 --> 00:44:23,244
"The prospect that you and Disney
will be able to co-conspire
775
00:44:23,327 --> 00:44:25,538
"on some projects is exciting to us all.
776
00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:27,790
"The combination of Howard Ashman's talent
777
00:44:27,874 --> 00:44:30,626
"and the Walt Disney name
is a home run waiting to happen.
778
00:44:30,877 --> 00:44:32,628
"With best regards, Jeffrey."
779
00:44:33,212 --> 00:44:36,299
JEFFERY: David Geffen, you know,
who was, uh, one of my best friends then
780
00:44:36,424 --> 00:44:39,468
and very much a mentor to me,
and... he said to me,
781
00:44:39,594 --> 00:44:41,721
"Well, you know,
you really need to meet Howard Ashman,"
782
00:44:41,804 --> 00:44:45,808
and, uh, so that's how I came
to... to meet Howard for the first time.
783
00:44:46,601 --> 00:44:49,604
NANCY: Uh, I'll never forget,
we were having Seder
784
00:44:49,770 --> 00:44:52,023
at Howard's apartment, it was Passover.
785
00:44:52,607 --> 00:44:56,694
And Jeffrey calls in the middle
of the Seder, almost like Elijah.
786
00:44:56,861 --> 00:44:57,862
(LAUGHING)
787
00:44:58,112 --> 00:45:01,157
Waiting for Elijah to show up,
and it's Jeffrey on the phone,
788
00:45:01,324 --> 00:45:04,076
and I don't know why, but of course
Howard picks up the phone
789
00:45:04,202 --> 00:45:06,579
and takes the call... (LAUGHING)
...in the middle of the Seder
790
00:45:06,662 --> 00:45:07,747
'cause it's Jeffrey.
791
00:45:07,830 --> 00:45:11,167
And Jeffrey's hawking him like,
"When are you coming?
792
00:45:11,250 --> 00:45:12,960
"Did you... Are...
When are you gonna sign?
793
00:45:13,085 --> 00:45:14,337
"When are you coming? Come on!"
794
00:45:20,134 --> 00:45:21,969
(MUSIC PLAYING)
795
00:45:22,803 --> 00:45:24,764
DON: The Walt Disney Studios
in Burbank, California
796
00:45:24,847 --> 00:45:27,600
was the wellspring of great animation
for decades.
797
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:31,145
But by the 1980s,
that legacy had begun to dwindle.
798
00:45:31,979 --> 00:45:34,315
And the Animation Department
was moved off the lot
799
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,193
to some warehouses
in Glendale, California.
800
00:45:37,401 --> 00:45:40,655
Well, here's another lovely location
they put us in.
801
00:45:40,947 --> 00:45:42,490
Come on, let's go see who's in here.
802
00:45:42,823 --> 00:45:45,618
DON: So, Howard gets to L.A.
and I think he's, you know, in his mind,
803
00:45:45,701 --> 00:45:48,371
he's probably thinking he's gonna go
to this really nice campus
804
00:45:48,454 --> 00:45:51,707
and, uh, you know, be there
with the Seven Dwarfs and kind of
805
00:45:51,791 --> 00:45:54,669
this iconic place where Walt Disney
made his films.
806
00:45:55,127 --> 00:45:57,505
But instead, Disney animation
have been moved off the lot,
807
00:45:57,630 --> 00:46:00,258
like three miles down the road
into an industrial park,
808
00:46:00,591 --> 00:46:03,052
and... and all of a sudden,
Howard's in a trailer.
809
00:46:03,219 --> 00:46:06,514
NANCY: It was like, "Really? (CHUCKLING)
This is the Walt Disney company."
810
00:46:06,722 --> 00:46:10,726
I remember thinking that, going,
"We're in a trailer in a parking lot
811
00:46:10,810 --> 00:46:12,687
"next to a bowling alley?"
812
00:46:12,979 --> 00:46:15,690
DON: So, when Howard first got to L.A.,
he had a lot of meetings set up
813
00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:17,566
with live-action directors
and producers.
814
00:46:17,692 --> 00:46:20,361
One of the first things he did
was write a script with Tina Turner
815
00:46:20,444 --> 00:46:22,738
about her life story, called I, Tina.
816
00:46:22,989 --> 00:46:26,284
But somehow, he never felt connected
to the live-action business
817
00:46:26,867 --> 00:46:29,870
and, uh, in Hollywood, like on Broadway,
he always felt a little bit
818
00:46:29,954 --> 00:46:31,122
like an outsider.
819
00:46:32,623 --> 00:46:35,668
Then he gets over to Animation
and... and you get all these people
820
00:46:35,793 --> 00:46:38,212
that are into cartoons and...
821
00:46:38,296 --> 00:46:41,257
and they're, you know,
wearing their underwear on their head
822
00:46:41,340 --> 00:46:45,303
and... and that somehow, I think,
felt like a comfortable fit for Howard.
823
00:46:45,386 --> 00:46:46,804
HOWARD:
Scary, isn't it?
824
00:46:47,722 --> 00:46:51,726
My background is... is in musical theater
and it's interesting 'cause I do think
825
00:46:51,809 --> 00:46:56,439
there's a very, very strong connection
and application between the two media.
826
00:46:56,689 --> 00:47:02,361
When I was, uh, approached with
an opportunity to work for Disney, period,
827
00:47:03,029 --> 00:47:06,073
I left after...
I said, "What about animation?
828
00:47:06,157 --> 00:47:09,869
"What about working in that department?"
That was what I really wanted to do here.
829
00:47:10,161 --> 00:47:13,164
There's just something
about the Disney fairy tale cartoons,
830
00:47:13,289 --> 00:47:16,584
going all the way back to... to Snow White
and then to Pinocchio.
831
00:47:16,667 --> 00:47:20,671
I mean, I... I grew up on Pinocchio
and Peter Pan, and the idea
832
00:47:20,796 --> 00:47:23,257
of doing one of those is like,
there's all these library books
833
00:47:23,382 --> 00:47:26,093
on the shelf, there's... there's
Snow White and there's Sleeping Beauty
834
00:47:26,218 --> 00:47:28,179
and there's Cinderella,
there's Peter Pan, there's Pinocchio
835
00:47:28,304 --> 00:47:30,890
and to try to make something
that fits comfortably on the shelf
836
00:47:30,973 --> 00:47:33,559
with those, I mean, that's like...
837
00:47:33,809 --> 00:47:37,772
What a... what a difficult thing to do,
but what a great thing to try to do.
838
00:47:37,855 --> 00:47:39,440
It's neat 'cause animation
839
00:47:39,565 --> 00:47:43,694
is almost a place that you can use
a whole other set of... set of skills
840
00:47:43,861 --> 00:47:45,363
and... and way of working.
841
00:47:45,488 --> 00:47:48,991
Uh, it might be one of the last,
maybe the... the last great place
842
00:47:49,075 --> 00:47:51,452
to do Broadway musicals...
(CHUCKLES) ...is in animation.
843
00:47:51,535 --> 00:47:53,621
Um, it's a whole other world.
844
00:47:54,580 --> 00:47:56,832
NANCY: Jeffrey said,
"Who do you want to work with?"
845
00:47:57,249 --> 00:47:59,752
And he said, "I'll bring Alan,
I'll work with Alan."
846
00:48:00,252 --> 00:48:02,213
ALAN:
My first trip to... to L.A.,
847
00:48:02,421 --> 00:48:05,633
it was so exciting. I mean,
there was the palm trees...
848
00:48:05,716 --> 00:48:08,511
(CHUCKLING) ...and Sunset Boulevard,
it's a very exciting time.
849
00:48:08,886 --> 00:48:13,682
Um, when we came out to work at Animation,
it was a surprisingly
850
00:48:14,225 --> 00:48:15,851
small operation at the time.
851
00:48:15,976 --> 00:48:18,354
My... you know, my first contact
was with, uh, Peter Schneider,
852
00:48:18,437 --> 00:48:21,065
who I had known previously
as the company manager
853
00:48:21,148 --> 00:48:24,235
on Little Shop of Horrors,
and Peter was the vice president,
854
00:48:24,318 --> 00:48:25,486
in charge of animation.
855
00:48:25,986 --> 00:48:30,449
And John and Ron, my first
distinct impression of them was...
856
00:48:30,991 --> 00:48:34,161
"Oh, my God, they're so...
Well, middle American."
857
00:48:34,245 --> 00:48:36,705
They're so... (LAUGHING)
...so kinda white bread.
858
00:48:37,206 --> 00:48:41,710
One of the first things after Howard
read the treatment, he's had this idea.
859
00:48:41,877 --> 00:48:44,338
We had this character
in the original treatment in the script,
860
00:48:44,422 --> 00:48:45,506
it was a crab character
861
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,092
Howard said,
"Why not make him Jamaican?"
862
00:48:48,259 --> 00:48:50,344
And, um, our first reaction was,
863
00:48:50,428 --> 00:48:52,263
"Jamaican?"
I mean, it was like a total twist
864
00:48:52,346 --> 00:48:53,472
on what we were thinking.
865
00:48:53,681 --> 00:48:56,475
Howard was involved really early
in this project and we went to New York,
866
00:48:56,559 --> 00:48:58,519
met with Howard, and he...
Just based on the treatment,
867
00:48:58,602 --> 00:49:02,064
the first script was written,
sort of did a placement kind of, of songs,
868
00:49:02,148 --> 00:49:04,275
but I think he had practically written
all the songs, you know,
869
00:49:04,358 --> 00:49:06,902
five minutes after he got the treatment,
but he said, "Now here...
870
00:49:06,986 --> 00:49:09,738
say you had a song, let's just say
it was called "Part of Your World",
871
00:49:09,822 --> 00:49:11,532
it could be called anything
but let's just say it was called
872
00:49:11,615 --> 00:49:12,825
"Part of Your World", and then,
873
00:49:12,908 --> 00:49:16,871
he and Alan, we were in Howard's apartment
in Greenwich Village and Alan came over
874
00:49:16,996 --> 00:49:20,124
and played it on the piano
and... and Howard sang it and right there
875
00:49:20,207 --> 00:49:22,001
and, uh, it sounded great.
876
00:49:22,168 --> 00:49:23,878
DON: Howard sat down
when he first got there,
877
00:49:23,961 --> 00:49:25,129
and using The Little Mermaid,
878
00:49:25,254 --> 00:49:28,299
he literally taught us
how to tell a story with songs.
879
00:49:54,074 --> 00:49:56,368
MIKE:
What? What did he just say? (CHUCKLING)
880
00:49:56,869 --> 00:49:59,997
Your lead character needs a want.
They have to have a strong want,
881
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,249
and then a want song,
and you're going, "Okay."
882
00:50:02,333 --> 00:50:03,834
Not even having a clue about that stuff
883
00:50:03,959 --> 00:50:05,085
before Howard was around.
884
00:50:05,169 --> 00:50:07,004
You would've thought
we would've known that.
885
00:50:07,838 --> 00:50:09,882
CHRIS: You could bring
any creative problem to him
886
00:50:10,007 --> 00:50:11,509
and I would still say, to this day
887
00:50:11,592 --> 00:50:15,304
he's probably the only person
I've ever met that, I think,
888
00:50:15,596 --> 00:50:19,725
ninety percent of the time, if I went
to him with something I was puzzling over,
889
00:50:19,850 --> 00:50:23,521
he would have a take, it would be concise,
and probably right.
890
00:50:24,021 --> 00:50:28,859
ROB: I was, you know, designing Ursula.
Uh, in the script she was described
891
00:50:28,943 --> 00:50:32,947
as a Joan Collins-esque character,
so all the designs were of a very thin,
892
00:50:33,072 --> 00:50:35,908
sort of high cheek-boned woman
with black hair.
893
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,745
ROGER: She was kind of like a...
a punk biker mama or something.
894
00:50:39,870 --> 00:50:41,205
She was really freaky.
895
00:50:41,288 --> 00:50:45,459
ROB:
And I did a design based on Divine.
896
00:50:45,543 --> 00:50:51,048
Boom, boom, boom, boom
D-I-G means look, D-I-G means hair
897
00:50:51,423 --> 00:50:54,843
ROB: And that design was put on a board
with a bunch of other designs
898
00:50:54,927 --> 00:50:57,680
and then the day that Howard Ashman
came in to look at the designs,
899
00:50:57,846 --> 00:50:59,056
he zeroed in on that one.
900
00:50:59,807 --> 00:51:02,476
ALAN: Pat Carroll's wonderful,
but you haven't heard the witch's number
901
00:51:02,810 --> 00:51:05,854
uh, until you've heard Howard perform it,
or for that matter, Audrey Two.
902
00:51:05,938 --> 00:51:08,023
-I mean, he's... (LAUGHS)
-And you never should.
903
00:51:08,482 --> 00:51:10,985
The men up there don't like
A lot of blabber
904
00:51:11,151 --> 00:51:15,656
They think a girl who gossips is a bore
Yes, on land it's much preferred
905
00:51:15,781 --> 00:51:20,452
For ladies to not say a word and after all
Dear, what is idle prattle for? Come on...
906
00:51:20,578 --> 00:51:23,747
Everybody would rather write
for Captain Hook than for Peter Pan.
907
00:51:23,831 --> 00:51:26,125
They're just more fun,
I don't know why, but...
908
00:51:26,208 --> 00:51:28,335
And Ursula is an especially fun villain,
909
00:51:28,419 --> 00:51:32,047
not only 'cause she looks like an octopus,
so you have that great movement
910
00:51:32,131 --> 00:51:36,552
with her lower regions, but she's also
very sophisticated, uh, as a character.
911
00:51:36,635 --> 00:51:40,639
She's much more verbal,
and as a lyricist that was fun for me,
912
00:51:40,889 --> 00:51:45,894
um, because I got to make more rhymes
and more puns and more sophisticated
913
00:51:45,978 --> 00:51:47,521
kind of humor with her.
914
00:51:47,646 --> 00:51:50,190
I kinda see her song as a...
a comedy number,
915
00:51:50,316 --> 00:51:54,486
first of all, and a character number,
um, and then third, talk about things
916
00:51:54,570 --> 00:51:55,904
that are driving the plot forward.
917
00:51:55,988 --> 00:52:00,492
At the beginning of that song, uh,
Ariel doesn't even know who Ursula is
918
00:52:00,576 --> 00:52:03,245
practically and by the end of that song,
she's a human.
919
00:52:03,412 --> 00:52:07,166
So, a whole lot changes in that...
in that little three-minute sequence.
920
00:52:07,291 --> 00:52:13,964
Come on, this poor unfortunate soul
921
00:52:16,050 --> 00:52:17,551
(CACKLES)
922
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,304
FEMALE ANNOUNCER: Good evening,
it's my pleasure to welcome you
923
00:52:20,429 --> 00:52:21,889
to the 92nd Street Y
924
00:52:22,222 --> 00:52:25,476
for the opening evening
of our series, "Plays Into Film".
925
00:52:25,934 --> 00:52:29,229
This series originated
when a creative work conceived
926
00:52:29,313 --> 00:52:32,524
in one medium was translated
into another medium.
927
00:52:32,858 --> 00:52:35,944
We're delighted that Mr. Menken
and Mr. Ashman are here tonight.
928
00:52:36,070 --> 00:52:38,030
Please join me in welcoming them,
thank you.
929
00:52:38,113 --> 00:52:39,114
(APPLAUSE)
930
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,950
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
Um, I wanna first say how happy I am
931
00:52:42,368 --> 00:52:44,370
to be interviewing Howard Ashman
932
00:52:44,495 --> 00:52:47,414
and Alan Menken this evening,
and that they were able to join us
933
00:52:47,539 --> 00:52:50,084
to talk about their experiences
with Little Shop of Horrors.
934
00:52:50,459 --> 00:52:52,836
A whole category of issues
I think that it would be interesting
935
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,174
to get into this evening
is the whole world of the musical movie,
936
00:52:57,424 --> 00:52:59,843
which is beginning to undergo
937
00:52:59,968 --> 00:53:01,929
somewhat of a renaissance in Hollywood.
938
00:53:02,346 --> 00:53:07,393
Um, do you not think that...
that making a... a film out of a musical
939
00:53:07,518 --> 00:53:09,186
is a different process entirely
940
00:53:09,269 --> 00:53:11,772
-than making a film out of a play?
-HOWARD: Oh, yeah. I think..
941
00:53:11,855 --> 00:53:15,359
-And do you wanna speak to that?
-HOWARD: Yeah, it's an exercise in stupid.
942
00:53:15,734 --> 00:53:17,319
(ALL LAUGHING)
943
00:53:17,444 --> 00:53:22,908
HOWARD: It's true. But, I... I don't know
why people think that film musicals work
944
00:53:23,033 --> 00:53:26,245
'cause I... I think they did
during the Depression
945
00:53:26,412 --> 00:53:30,290
and maybe during part of the '40s
and early '50s, but...
946
00:53:30,791 --> 00:53:34,253
but I think it's very hard,
just the nature of... of the medium,
947
00:53:34,336 --> 00:53:38,507
and when people start to sing,
it's pretty silly in the theater,
948
00:53:38,716 --> 00:53:43,095
and it's even sillier
when you're taking a picture of it...
949
00:53:43,178 --> 00:53:44,577
-(FEMALE INTERVIEWER CHUCKLING)
-HOWARD: ...and...
950
00:53:44,669 --> 00:53:46,279
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
Could you talk about that a little bit?
951
00:53:46,329 --> 00:53:48,684
The changes that occur
between what happens onstage
952
00:53:48,809 --> 00:53:50,853
and what happens on film
and in this case,
953
00:53:51,395 --> 00:53:54,022
-some of the changes were fairly dramatic.
-HOWARD: Very dramatic.
954
00:53:54,106 --> 00:53:55,595
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
And could you just speak to that?
955
00:53:55,774 --> 00:53:58,277
HOWARD:
Yeah, um, films get test marketed
956
00:53:58,444 --> 00:54:03,699
and, uh, films are toothpaste,
you may be surprised to learn,
957
00:54:03,949 --> 00:54:06,785
and in the course of doing previews
of this film,
958
00:54:06,910 --> 00:54:08,620
and... and looking at the cards
959
00:54:08,704 --> 00:54:10,581
that people write after they see
those screenings,
960
00:54:10,831 --> 00:54:14,293
there were... I read them.
I saw these cards that came back.
961
00:54:14,376 --> 00:54:17,713
These people who had been rounded up,
these 15 to 17-year-olds
962
00:54:17,921 --> 00:54:21,508
who had been rounded up to decide
what America was gonna see that year
963
00:54:21,633 --> 00:54:24,178
and they basically
were saying things like,
964
00:54:24,261 --> 00:54:26,346
-"Why are they singing?"
-(FEMALE INTERVIEWER LAUGHING)
965
00:54:26,430 --> 00:54:29,975
HOWARD:
And... so add a parenthesis.
966
00:54:30,184 --> 00:54:33,437
I... I feel very fortunate
that we've, I think,
967
00:54:33,979 --> 00:54:37,649
found ourselves in the one area
in films where musicals might work,
968
00:54:37,775 --> 00:54:42,196
-and that is in animation over at Disney.
-ALAN: Yeah, it seems like there might be
969
00:54:42,529 --> 00:54:46,950
a little corner of the world there
in animation where Broadway skills apply.
970
00:54:47,075 --> 00:54:48,577
And I think there might be a whole...
971
00:54:48,827 --> 00:54:52,331
BILL: Howard had seen his doctor
a few days before this event
972
00:54:52,456 --> 00:54:57,503
at the 92nd Street Y, prior to that,
I'd say for the last few weeks
973
00:54:57,669 --> 00:55:02,758
before that, um, Howard had... had
been noticing white patches on his throat
974
00:55:02,883 --> 00:55:07,262
and in his tongue and we both knew
what that was, it's thrush,
975
00:55:07,387 --> 00:55:12,267
and it occurs in people
with compromised immune systems, um...
976
00:55:12,893 --> 00:55:17,314
And the doctor wanted to do a test for HIV
and Howard said, "No,
977
00:55:17,481 --> 00:55:20,734
"we're not doing that
because I could lose my insurance
978
00:55:20,984 --> 00:55:25,572
"um, if this goes on my record,"
uh, so the doctor compromised and said,
979
00:55:25,656 --> 00:55:27,699
"We'll do a test for T-cell count."
980
00:55:28,075 --> 00:55:29,868
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
What do you think the future
981
00:55:29,952 --> 00:55:32,704
of the American initiated musical is?
982
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:35,707
HOWARD:
I don't... I really don't know.
983
00:55:36,083 --> 00:55:39,002
-I... We're all real depressed.
-(ALL LAUGHING)
984
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:41,046
HOWARD:
I don't know.
985
00:55:43,173 --> 00:55:46,802
BILL: He called him with the results
of the T-cell count the afternoon
986
00:55:46,885 --> 00:55:51,557
of that 92nd Street Y event,
um, and they were so low
987
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,560
that it was apparent that he had HIV.
988
00:55:56,144 --> 00:56:01,733
We were both sort of shell-shocked,
shattered, and, um, I said,
989
00:56:01,817 --> 00:56:05,904
"So, uh, you can't go to this lecture
tonight, obviously, this is..."
990
00:56:05,988 --> 00:56:08,907
Like, I... I was just, you know,
literally shaking.
991
00:56:09,449 --> 00:56:14,288
Um, he said, "No, I'm going
and... and, um, there's no reason not to,"
992
00:56:14,830 --> 00:56:19,626
and so we both got in a cab
and went to the 92nd Street Y.
993
00:56:20,460 --> 00:56:22,462
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
Howard, do you have a theatrical project
994
00:56:22,588 --> 00:56:23,630
in your future?
995
00:56:24,089 --> 00:56:29,219
HOWARD: No, not really. I might.
I maybe will if I ever get up the nerve,
996
00:56:29,344 --> 00:56:33,765
but, uh, no, not right this minute,
I don't. I'm kind of resting.
997
00:56:33,849 --> 00:56:35,726
(FEMALE INTERVIEWER LAUGHING)
998
00:56:36,143 --> 00:56:38,103
Okay, thank you all
for coming this evening
999
00:56:38,186 --> 00:56:40,856
-and I will see you next week.
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
1000
00:56:44,610 --> 00:56:46,236
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
1001
00:56:46,445 --> 00:56:48,780
-When I lighten up, I have a tendency...
-Lighten up.
1002
00:56:48,906 --> 00:56:51,241
-Maybe I should stand back a little.
-Yeah, a little bit.
1003
00:56:51,617 --> 00:56:54,912
JODI: I got the sense
that Howard felt so badly
1004
00:56:54,995 --> 00:56:58,999
about Smile closing so drastically
and horribly...
1005
00:57:00,042 --> 00:57:03,295
that Howard gave me a chance to audition.
1006
00:57:03,837 --> 00:57:09,217
Um, those very first few days,
I remember being incredibly nervous.
1007
00:57:09,593 --> 00:57:14,056
He was such a perfectionist
about a monologue that just happened
1008
00:57:14,181 --> 00:57:17,643
to be put to pitch, which is what
"Part of Your World" is.
1009
00:57:17,726 --> 00:57:20,604
And... and what I did is
I would get to the point,
1010
00:57:20,687 --> 00:57:23,273
after I'd do it like, 25 or 30 times.
1011
00:57:23,649 --> 00:57:28,403
I'd say, "Howard, can you please just
give me the line reading?"
1012
00:57:28,695 --> 00:57:30,864
"If I can just imitate you."
1013
00:57:31,031 --> 00:57:33,200
(SINGS) Ready to stand.
(SPEAKS) Do that for me.
1014
00:57:33,325 --> 00:57:39,831
Ready to stand and ready to know
What the people know...
1015
00:57:39,957 --> 00:57:41,583
You were doing more voice than that...
1016
00:57:41,708 --> 00:57:42,918
-Yes.
-...when we're recording, right?
1017
00:57:43,001 --> 00:57:45,295
-A lot more. Let's keep that little...
-A lot more.
1018
00:57:45,462 --> 00:57:49,675
SARAH: I think that the diagnosis...
Uh, clearly everything changed.
1019
00:57:50,634 --> 00:57:54,262
But I think the work
really did keep him going
1020
00:57:54,805 --> 00:57:57,891
and kept him believing
and almost willing him
1021
00:57:58,141 --> 00:58:00,060
to continue on and to live.
1022
00:58:00,811 --> 00:58:02,437
By the way, performance was fabulous.
1023
00:58:02,646 --> 00:58:04,189
-I understand.
-By the way.
1024
00:58:04,270 --> 00:58:05,732
-Make it more intimate. Standing in...
-HOWARD: Yes.
1025
00:58:05,983 --> 00:58:07,734
Standing in front of
the Lunt-Fontanne Theater
1026
00:58:07,859 --> 00:58:09,903
trying to sing to 1,500 people.
(CHUCKLES)
1027
00:58:10,529 --> 00:58:14,116
Up where they walk, up where they run
1028
00:58:14,199 --> 00:58:17,744
Up where they stay all day in the sun
1029
00:58:17,828 --> 00:58:24,668
Wanderin' free wish I could be
Part of that world
1030
00:58:25,043 --> 00:58:27,212
(MUSIC PLAYING)
1031
00:58:33,135 --> 00:58:34,845
HOWARD: Yeah, I think
we wanted to make songs
1032
00:58:34,928 --> 00:58:35,929
that would tell the story,
1033
00:58:36,013 --> 00:58:37,931
songs that would really move
the story forward
1034
00:58:38,056 --> 00:58:39,891
and really push the plot along
1035
00:58:40,017 --> 00:58:42,686
and keep things driving ahead
so it's not like,
1036
00:58:42,769 --> 00:58:46,898
you stop and sing a song, it's...
You get to a certain point
1037
00:58:46,982 --> 00:58:50,027
where the crab has to convince,
uh, the mermaid
1038
00:58:50,444 --> 00:58:52,237
not to go up, uh, above the water
1039
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,658
and change her life so he has to sing
"Under the Sea" and she has to sing
1040
00:58:56,742 --> 00:58:59,745
"Part of Your World" because she wants
to go up to dry land so badly,
1041
00:58:59,870 --> 00:59:03,665
and "Kiss The Girl" is a great example,
um, because if she doesn't...
1042
00:59:03,749 --> 00:59:06,877
If the prince doesn't kiss the mermaid,
the worst thing in the world
1043
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,629
is gonna happen, she going to...
she's gonna lose him and the whole...
1044
00:59:09,713 --> 00:59:11,006
I don't wanna give the plot away.
1045
00:59:11,423 --> 00:59:13,175
But it's, uh, it's a real,
1046
00:59:13,258 --> 00:59:15,677
uh, tense situation,
and that's where the song comes
1047
00:59:15,802 --> 00:59:17,429
so they're always driving the plot.
1048
00:59:21,099 --> 00:59:23,268
-HOWARD: Great.
-You're not gonna get a better recording.
1049
00:59:23,393 --> 00:59:24,561
HOWARD:
That's great.
1050
00:59:24,936 --> 00:59:26,938
-Are you people happy?
-Yeah, we're thrilled.
1051
00:59:27,022 --> 00:59:29,316
-HOWARD: We're touching its soul.
-FEMALE WORKER: All right.
1052
00:59:33,361 --> 00:59:35,864
GLEN:
I remember on "Part of Your World" song
1053
00:59:36,156 --> 00:59:38,825
had animated
and Jeffrey sat in the movie theater
1054
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:43,205
and... and, uh, afterwards Jeffrey said,
"Ah, we gotta cut that song, it's boring."
1055
00:59:43,413 --> 00:59:47,667
CHRIS: It was natural that if you got
to a slow song without a lot of imagery,
1056
00:59:47,918 --> 00:59:51,421
guess what? Especially to kids,
they're gonna wiggle, you know,
1057
00:59:51,546 --> 00:59:54,466
and we were all trained wiggle detectors.
1058
00:59:54,716 --> 00:59:56,968
JEFFERY: You know, I said to everybody,
"I think you really oughta think
1059
00:59:57,094 --> 00:59:58,929
"about cutting that song
out of the movie,"
1060
00:59:59,054 --> 01:00:01,807
and, you know, Howard Ashman said,
"Over my dead body,"
1061
01:00:01,932 --> 01:00:03,475
you know, "I'll strangle you."
1062
01:00:03,975 --> 01:00:07,854
ALAN: I think Howard loved the process
and he hated when people interfered
1063
01:00:07,979 --> 01:00:09,147
with his control.
1064
01:00:09,356 --> 01:00:11,900
NANCY: When we were working
on Little Mermaid,
1065
01:00:12,234 --> 01:00:14,444
one day, I went to the copy machine,
1066
01:00:14,569 --> 01:00:18,824
lifted the lid and found a memo,
and I picked it up and I said,
1067
01:00:18,907 --> 01:00:22,244
"Oh, well, I've got to return this
to whoever left their memo here,"
1068
01:00:22,619 --> 01:00:28,875
and when I read it, uh, the memo was
all about Howard taking too much time
1069
01:00:29,292 --> 01:00:33,672
and asking for re-dos
and costing the studio time and money
1070
01:00:34,172 --> 01:00:36,633
and maybe he needed to be fired.
1071
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:40,554
ALAN: Howard was very smart and said,
"Look, these movies launch
1072
01:00:40,679 --> 01:00:42,180
off of this kind of a song."
1073
01:00:42,305 --> 01:00:44,182
Every one of the movies
had some version of it,
1074
01:00:44,266 --> 01:00:49,312
whether it's "When You Wish Upon a Star"
or whatever example you want to choose.
1075
01:00:49,813 --> 01:00:51,314
It maybe temporarily kind of
1076
01:00:51,481 --> 01:00:54,693
hard to make work, but in the big picture,
you have to have this song.
1077
01:00:54,818 --> 01:00:57,612
You have to have
those earned heart moments.
1078
01:00:57,821 --> 01:01:00,782
ROY: I don't wanna compare him to Walt,
but on the other hand
1079
01:01:00,907 --> 01:01:03,160
he had that kind of influence
on everybody.
1080
01:01:03,702 --> 01:01:06,246
It was... it was a remarkable amount
of influence.
1081
01:01:06,621 --> 01:01:10,083
If... If Howard said it, you...
you know, it was gospel.
1082
01:01:10,417 --> 01:01:14,588
ALAN: You know, so we had lots of battles
about it, um, and ultimately he was right,
1083
01:01:14,671 --> 01:01:16,339
and not only did it stay in the movie,
1084
01:01:16,423 --> 01:01:19,467
but it's one of the more memorable moments
in the movie.
1085
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:25,015
NANCY: He would go to the Disney offices,
do what he had to do that day
1086
01:01:25,140 --> 01:01:27,559
and then he would come home
and then he would be hooked up
1087
01:01:27,976 --> 01:01:31,396
to, um, like,
intravenous medical equipment
1088
01:01:31,521 --> 01:01:33,857
to give him fluids and medicine.
1089
01:01:34,357 --> 01:01:37,194
So, we kind of turned
our living room into
1090
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,571
a little bit of a hospital room for him.
1091
01:01:40,906 --> 01:01:43,617
BILL: At first, it was pretty...
it was pretty easy to conceal
1092
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:46,620
because by all appearances he seemed fine,
1093
01:01:46,745 --> 01:01:53,376
you know, for... for a year, even two, um,
you know, he was functioning pretty well
1094
01:01:53,919 --> 01:01:56,922
and, um, you know,
it was a more gradual thing.
1095
01:01:57,547 --> 01:02:00,634
PETER:
It never crossed my mind that he had AIDS,
1096
01:02:00,759 --> 01:02:04,679
but I do know that there were certain days
that Nancy Parent had to get him off
1097
01:02:04,763 --> 01:02:07,474
the couch and patch him up
and send him to work.
1098
01:02:08,808 --> 01:02:12,729
BILL: When we got the... the news
about Howard's health,
1099
01:02:12,938 --> 01:02:15,482
um, it really sort of shook everything,
1100
01:02:15,565 --> 01:02:18,276
you know, I mean, his...
his work at Disney,
1101
01:02:18,777 --> 01:02:23,365
the house, what are we gonna do,
um, now that we have this news?
1102
01:02:23,740 --> 01:02:28,703
And so, we agreed that we would go ahead
with the project and we rented a house up
1103
01:02:28,828 --> 01:02:31,122
near the construction site of our...
our house.
1104
01:02:31,206 --> 01:02:33,917
We were living in Beacon,
which was close by.
1105
01:02:34,125 --> 01:02:37,712
It was a... There was a lot to...
to manage, and the worst of it
1106
01:02:37,796 --> 01:02:42,509
was that it had to be a secret
and that all of this was going on
1107
01:02:42,676 --> 01:02:46,596
and for the longest time,
um, we couldn't tell anyone.
1108
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:51,893
Um, you know, what it makes you do
is it... you wanna go away, you wanna hide
1109
01:02:52,143 --> 01:02:59,025
and not have to explain, so that's part
of what, um, leaving New York City was.
1110
01:03:00,402 --> 01:03:03,863
ALAN: If we were working in my studio
on I... I can't remember what song,
1111
01:03:03,947 --> 01:03:07,826
but if he wasn't getting what he wanted,
he would get frustrated.
1112
01:03:09,035 --> 01:03:12,831
He wanted to tape some version
of the song, and he had the Walkman Pro.
1113
01:03:12,914 --> 01:03:16,751
The Walkman Pro in those days
was the crème de la crème of Walkman.
1114
01:03:17,127 --> 01:03:19,379
And he had this little microphone
that he was putting in it
1115
01:03:19,504 --> 01:03:22,132
and the microphone was probably
not very expensive, but it was...
1116
01:03:22,757 --> 01:03:25,385
The mic was not getting good connection,
it was intermittent.
1117
01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:26,803
Well, any... most pers...
1118
01:03:26,886 --> 01:03:29,556
people would simply go,
"Okay, gotta get another mic."
1119
01:03:30,348 --> 01:03:34,644
Howard took his Walkman Pro
and smashed it against the wall.
1120
01:03:35,895 --> 01:03:39,649
He said, "Don't go near it...
don't touch it."
1121
01:03:39,816 --> 01:03:44,362
At those times, you know, I would think,
"Is it me? Is it... Am I just that...
1122
01:03:44,529 --> 01:03:48,616
"(CHUCKLING) ...that inept as a composer
that he's that frustrated or..."
1123
01:03:49,409 --> 01:03:51,995
I'd say, "Excuse me for a second,
I just have to go do something,"
1124
01:03:52,078 --> 01:03:55,749
and I would leave the room
and literally cry. I just...
1125
01:03:55,874 --> 01:03:58,501
It was so hard.
1126
01:04:00,295 --> 01:04:03,298
PETER: And I suppose
that has do with the fact
1127
01:04:03,381 --> 01:04:04,799
that he knew he was sick.
1128
01:04:05,383 --> 01:04:06,676
Of which we didn't know.
1129
01:04:07,093 --> 01:04:11,848
But I'm sure the frustration
of being sick, of knowing that your life
1130
01:04:12,140 --> 01:04:16,603
is probably gonna be shortened
and you have no time left,
1131
01:04:17,103 --> 01:04:19,898
that I was not gonna get it done,
I don't have time
1132
01:04:19,981 --> 01:04:24,235
to get it done correctly, and these idiots
are standing in my way.
1133
01:04:25,070 --> 01:04:27,864
So how do I get it done?
Get out of my way.
1134
01:04:31,576 --> 01:04:32,869
(PLAYS DRUMS)
1135
01:04:36,915 --> 01:04:37,832
(PLAYS PIANO)
1136
01:04:38,208 --> 01:04:41,795
ALAN: In the midst of working on Mermaid,
we were also working on Aladdin
1137
01:04:42,337 --> 01:04:43,838
which was so exciting.
1138
01:04:44,756 --> 01:04:49,844
The initial take on Aladdin was a wink
at the Hope/Crosby Road pictures.
1139
01:04:50,512 --> 01:04:51,805
I sure wish I had a drink.
1140
01:04:52,430 --> 01:04:56,518
ALAN: A wink at the Fleischer Cartoons,
it was very stylish, very buddy
1141
01:04:56,935 --> 01:04:59,270
and, you know, "A Friend Like Me",
which was pure,
1142
01:04:59,479 --> 01:05:02,148
you know, Fats Waller craziness.
1143
01:05:02,732 --> 01:05:05,777
DON: It was pretty clear
that Howard was just nuts about Aladdin
1144
01:05:05,944 --> 01:05:08,113
and it made sense
because he played Aladdin onstage
1145
01:05:08,196 --> 01:05:09,948
in Baltimore when he was just a kid.
1146
01:05:10,490 --> 01:05:13,910
But now, while he's working on Mermaid,
he walks in the door with this
1147
01:05:13,993 --> 01:05:15,829
thirty-page treatment
and half a dozen songs
1148
01:05:15,912 --> 01:05:18,164
that plug right into it,
and they weren't just the kind of
1149
01:05:18,248 --> 01:05:21,459
pasted-on songs,
they were these intricate,
1150
01:05:21,543 --> 01:05:25,004
storytelling songs done with this craft
that only Howard and Alan
1151
01:05:25,088 --> 01:05:27,340
can do, and it just blew everybody away.
1152
01:05:28,383 --> 01:05:29,884
ALAN:
Our work as songwriters...
1153
01:05:30,176 --> 01:05:31,970
-I can maybe start with...
-(PLAYING PIANO)
1154
01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:34,055
...doesn't simply start
with the first note.
1155
01:05:35,849 --> 01:05:37,809
It starts with both the rhythm...
1156
01:05:37,892 --> 01:05:41,104
-HOWARD: Dialogue, dialogue, dialogue.
-...and the content of what
1157
01:05:41,187 --> 01:05:43,106
-leads up to the song.
-HOWARD: Dialogue, dialogue.
1158
01:05:43,189 --> 01:05:45,316
-ALAN: What is within the song.
-HOWARD: More dialogue.
1159
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,861
-ALAN: What happens the moment after that?
-HOWARD: Dialogue.
1160
01:05:47,986 --> 01:05:49,863
ALAN:
Exactly the moment we end the song.
1161
01:05:51,197 --> 01:05:52,449
(MUSIC CONTINUES PLAYING)
1162
01:05:52,574 --> 01:05:58,705
Arabian nights, like Arabian days
Everything that...
1163
01:05:58,872 --> 01:06:03,710
ALAN: All of those little, tiny choices
are ones that Howard was a master at
1164
01:06:03,835 --> 01:06:07,464
recognizing and being able to control
getting those into place.
1165
01:06:07,839 --> 01:06:11,468
CHRIS: Those first three or four songs,
"Friend Like Me", "Prince Ali",
1166
01:06:11,718 --> 01:06:14,095
they don't get written by anybody else.
1167
01:06:14,512 --> 01:06:16,931
ALAN: The stuff that was coming out
of Howard's pen was just...
1168
01:06:17,015 --> 01:06:19,142
Lyrically, it was just unbelievable.
1169
01:06:19,225 --> 01:06:25,398
Prince Ali! Amorous he! Ali Ababwa
1170
01:06:25,690 --> 01:06:30,236
Heard your princess
Was a sight lovely to see
1171
01:06:30,361 --> 01:06:34,491
And that, good people, is why
He got dolled up and dropped by
1172
01:06:34,574 --> 01:06:37,952
With sixty elephants, llamas galore
With his bears and lions
1173
01:06:38,036 --> 01:06:39,954
A brass band and more
With his forty fakirs
1174
01:06:40,038 --> 01:06:43,041
His cooks, his bakers
His birds that warble on key
1175
01:06:43,124 --> 01:06:49,923
Make way for Prince Ali!
1176
01:06:52,550 --> 01:06:55,595
Splendid, absolutely marvelous.
1177
01:06:56,596 --> 01:06:58,890
DON: I think a lot of people figure
that when you're Disney,
1178
01:06:58,973 --> 01:07:01,684
you just have no problems at all
when it comes to telling a story.
1179
01:07:01,768 --> 01:07:04,062
It just somehow shoots out
of your eyeballs and you're done.
1180
01:07:04,229 --> 01:07:07,357
But that's so not true
because Disney is just people,
1181
01:07:07,649 --> 01:07:11,402
and... and people sitting there
with pencils and paper, uh, at a desk,
1182
01:07:11,486 --> 01:07:13,154
trying to make things entertaining
and funny
1183
01:07:13,238 --> 01:07:15,448
and feel empathy
and emotion for the characters.
1184
01:07:15,573 --> 01:07:18,243
And a lot of times,
it just doesn't work out
1185
01:07:18,368 --> 01:07:19,994
and it all comes crashing to the ground.
1186
01:07:20,078 --> 01:07:24,415
It is about understanding the fabric
of the character of Aladdin
1187
01:07:24,499 --> 01:07:25,792
and I don't think we do yet.
1188
01:07:25,959 --> 01:07:29,837
We had screened the movie for Jeffrey
and we went to Don Ernst's office.
1189
01:07:29,921 --> 01:07:32,382
Don Ernst, the producer of the movie,
he said, "Come on in here,
1190
01:07:32,507 --> 01:07:34,676
"come on in here, guys."
Like, "Yeah, what's going on?"
1191
01:07:34,759 --> 01:07:38,096
"Yeah, I talked to Jeffrey.
He hated it, he hated it.
1192
01:07:38,179 --> 01:07:39,681
"He hated every minute of it."
1193
01:07:39,931 --> 01:07:43,518
So later we talked to Jeffrey and...
and we said, "You hated it?"
1194
01:07:43,643 --> 01:07:47,939
He said, "Yeah, oh, it didn't work at all.
I was working on the guest list
1195
01:07:48,022 --> 01:07:51,651
"for my wife's, uh, surprise
birthday party, all during the screening."
1196
01:07:51,901 --> 01:07:54,654
So, Aladdin went on hold for re-writes
and in the meantime,
1197
01:07:54,737 --> 01:07:57,949
everybody got on a plane and flew down
to Walt Disney World in Florida.
1198
01:07:58,324 --> 01:08:01,869
HOWARD: My friends are real nervous
'cause I basically hate everything I do.
1199
01:08:01,995 --> 01:08:04,163
-(REPORTER CHUCKLING)
-And everything I'm connected with,
1200
01:08:04,247 --> 01:08:06,332
my friends are very... This is like
the first thing I've ever done,
1201
01:08:06,541 --> 01:08:10,128
that I go... they say, "How's the movie?"
And I go, "It's really good."
1202
01:08:10,253 --> 01:08:11,713
(LAUGHING)
It's... I really like it.
1203
01:08:15,842 --> 01:08:17,510
HOWARD: (CHUCKLING) Normal movie.
1204
01:08:19,137 --> 01:08:20,054
HOWARD:
Yeah.
1205
01:08:22,432 --> 01:08:24,475
HOWARD:
It's interesting, no creative process
1206
01:08:24,601 --> 01:08:28,438
is without some element of,
uh, of tension,
1207
01:08:28,563 --> 01:08:30,982
of conflict. There's plenty
creative tension, especially...
1208
01:08:31,107 --> 01:08:34,402
BILL: Howard had to go
to do this press junket
1209
01:08:34,485 --> 01:08:37,030
and sit for, I don't know,
eight hours a day.
1210
01:08:37,155 --> 01:08:40,908
During that period,
he had a catheter in his chest
1211
01:08:40,992 --> 01:08:44,495
and was taking
daily intravenous treatments
1212
01:08:44,621 --> 01:08:47,165
that we knew how to do
and I helped him with
1213
01:08:47,290 --> 01:08:50,335
and, uh, you know,
it was to control infection.
1214
01:08:50,668 --> 01:08:54,088
This was before anyone knew about it.
1215
01:08:54,213 --> 01:08:56,633
Uh, it was expected
that we would go on rides
1216
01:08:56,716 --> 01:09:01,804
and... and we had a, uh, a handler
take us around and go on roller coasters
1217
01:09:01,929 --> 01:09:05,433
while he was queasy... (LAUGHING)
...trying to keep the secret,
1218
01:09:05,558 --> 01:09:07,935
trying to keep him on his two feet
1219
01:09:08,102 --> 01:09:11,439
and handling the...
the question and answer periods,
1220
01:09:11,522 --> 01:09:13,316
uh, for two days in a row.
1221
01:09:13,608 --> 01:09:15,735
That was really tough.
1222
01:09:16,569 --> 01:09:20,782
The seaweed is always greener
In somebody else's lake
1223
01:09:20,948 --> 01:09:24,285
JOHN: I do remember Howard talking
and he just said, "You know,
1224
01:09:24,369 --> 01:09:28,039
"when I saw this parade,
I burst into tears when I saw it,"
1225
01:09:28,373 --> 01:09:29,874
and he said, uh,
1226
01:09:30,166 --> 01:09:33,461
"'cause I had just had the feeling
this would live on after me."
1227
01:09:34,504 --> 01:09:37,006
At the time I just thought,
"Oh, he's just... He was so moved
1228
01:09:37,131 --> 01:09:40,134
"because he thought something I did
is gonna live on," and I had no idea
1229
01:09:40,259 --> 01:09:42,220
that there was this other context.
1230
01:09:43,096 --> 01:09:45,014
FEMALE ANNOUNCER 2:
And the Oscar goes to...
1231
01:09:45,473 --> 01:09:47,266
(LAUGHS, PANTS)
1232
01:09:48,601 --> 01:09:50,978
Alan Menken and Howard Ashman
for "Under the Sea"
1233
01:09:51,062 --> 01:09:53,231
-from The Little Mermaid.
-(AUDIENCE CHEERING, APPLAUDING)
1234
01:09:58,444 --> 01:10:01,489
I won't do fish jokes,
just, uh, say a couple thank yous.
1235
01:10:01,572 --> 01:10:05,118
At Disney to Jeff Katzenberg,
Peter Schneider, to Sam Wright
1236
01:10:05,201 --> 01:10:08,913
who sang the song, all the words.
Mostly, though, to John Musker
1237
01:10:08,996 --> 01:10:11,374
and Ron Clements,
whose movie Little Mermaid really is.
1238
01:10:11,708 --> 01:10:14,335
-I feel really lucky, thank you.
-(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS)
1239
01:10:15,503 --> 01:10:17,171
ALAN: At the Governor's Ball afterwards,
1240
01:10:17,755 --> 01:10:20,425
we sat there with our...
our three statuettes
1241
01:10:20,550 --> 01:10:23,594
and Howard said, "You know, I want you
to know I'm really happy tonight,
1242
01:10:24,387 --> 01:10:28,015
"and, um, when we get back home,
back to New York,
1243
01:10:28,307 --> 01:10:30,560
"we really have to have a...
a very serious talk."
1244
01:10:31,018 --> 01:10:33,020
I said, "Well, what... what about?"
1245
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,274
You know, I was thinking, "Do you not
wanna work together anymore? Is..."
1246
01:10:36,441 --> 01:10:38,860
Why my brain couldn't form
something was wrong
1247
01:10:38,985 --> 01:10:41,654
with Howard is beyond me,
and then I guess the...
1248
01:10:41,738 --> 01:10:43,656
You know, the Oscars
were on a Sunday night,
1249
01:10:43,740 --> 01:10:47,994
I guess, and we probably met that Tuesday,
um, up at his house.
1250
01:10:48,453 --> 01:10:50,329
Um, I came into his living room
1251
01:10:50,413 --> 01:10:53,583
and he said, "Well..." I said, "What?
You know, what's... (CHUCKLING)
1252
01:10:53,666 --> 01:10:55,001
"...what do you wanna talk about?"
1253
01:10:55,585 --> 01:10:57,628
He said, "Well, you know, I'm sick."
1254
01:10:59,213 --> 01:11:02,008
And all of a sudden, you know,
a million dominoes just went...
1255
01:11:02,091 --> 01:11:03,176
(IMITATES DOMINOES FALLING)
1256
01:11:03,593 --> 01:11:05,595
He.. you know, and he said, "Look, I...
1257
01:11:06,345 --> 01:11:08,431
"Uh, I feel good
that I'm telling you this now
1258
01:11:08,514 --> 01:11:10,683
"because I know you're taken care of."
1259
01:11:11,559 --> 01:11:14,562
What... You know, what was he doing?
He was basically saying, "I'm gonna die."
1260
01:11:15,396 --> 01:11:19,192
At the... What? He wasn't even 40 yet.
"I'm gonna die and I'm glad
1261
01:11:19,525 --> 01:11:21,402
"to know at least that you're
taken care of."
1262
01:11:22,111 --> 01:11:25,323
CHRIS: Because in those days,
it was a death sentence.
1263
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:29,202
So, you were being told this man
that you love, that you were having
1264
01:11:29,327 --> 01:11:32,371
this tremendous amount of fun with
and creating all this work
1265
01:11:32,455 --> 01:11:36,209
as a group together was gonna die
in a very short amount of time
1266
01:11:36,584 --> 01:11:38,419
and that is very sobering.
1267
01:11:39,504 --> 01:11:42,548
PETER: I was angry at Howard
when I heard the story.
1268
01:11:44,383 --> 01:11:48,596
And I was angry because he didn't show up
for every single recording session
1269
01:11:48,721 --> 01:11:51,015
on the music of Little Mermaid.
1270
01:11:51,557 --> 01:11:52,809
He couldn't travel.
1271
01:11:53,601 --> 01:11:56,312
And he made an excuse
why he couldn't be there
1272
01:11:56,729 --> 01:11:59,732
and I was angry
'cause he hadn't told us earlier.
1273
01:12:00,858 --> 01:12:06,072
If we had just known, we would have moved
the recording session to New York.
1274
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:10,034
NANCY:
Howard really didn't want people to know.
1275
01:12:10,117 --> 01:12:12,745
He was... he was afraid being judged
1276
01:12:12,870 --> 01:12:17,917
and criticized and what people would say,
what people would think.
1277
01:12:18,334 --> 01:12:22,505
PETER: Howard said to me,
"I didn't wanna tell you because...
1278
01:12:23,464 --> 01:12:27,176
"I didn't know how Disney would react.
Here I am, a gay man,
1279
01:12:27,969 --> 01:12:32,056
"and I'm working on this movie for kids,
and I didn't wanna be fired."
1280
01:12:34,475 --> 01:12:37,937
JEFFERY: He loved making these movies
and said that that is what he,
1281
01:12:38,354 --> 01:12:42,441
more than anything else,
cherished the most and wanted to do
1282
01:12:42,525 --> 01:12:46,445
with whatever... whatever time he had left
in his life and he didn't know
1283
01:12:46,529 --> 01:12:49,615
at that point, none of us knew,
how long he would have to live,
1284
01:12:49,699 --> 01:12:51,075
but he knew he was sick.
1285
01:12:51,367 --> 01:12:53,911
NANCY: He was terrified,
but he wasn't gonna stop.
1286
01:12:54,036 --> 01:12:57,874
Nothing was gonna stop him from getting
the stuff done that he had to do.
1287
01:12:59,292 --> 01:13:00,626
(MUSIC PLAYING)
1288
01:13:06,424 --> 01:13:09,927
GARY: Somebody had showed me the, uh,
the... the reel and it was... you know,
1289
01:13:10,011 --> 01:13:14,265
it was sorta slickly done,
but it was, like, not very inspiring.
1290
01:13:14,348 --> 01:13:17,268
It was just like...
Somebody... somebody, uh, described it
1291
01:13:17,351 --> 01:13:19,020
as animated masterpiece theater.
1292
01:13:19,353 --> 01:13:24,400
And evidently Jeffrey said,
"Put, uh, Howard and Alan on it
1293
01:13:24,483 --> 01:13:27,361
"and they'll do to this what they did
to Mermaid and it'll be great."
1294
01:13:27,820 --> 01:13:30,072
BILL:
He knew that going to California
1295
01:13:30,156 --> 01:13:35,536
was not gonna be easy,
uh, and eventually, not even possible.
1296
01:13:35,870 --> 01:13:40,124
So, he had to, uh,
talk to Jeffrey candidly.
1297
01:13:40,249 --> 01:13:43,794
SARAH: When Howard came back and we said,
"So what did Jeffrey say?"
1298
01:13:44,045 --> 01:13:48,090
He said, "He became a nice Jewish man.
He became 'how's your mother handling it',
1299
01:13:48,215 --> 01:13:49,216
"you know?"
1300
01:13:49,300 --> 01:13:52,053
JEFFERY: And he just said, "You know,
I know I am getting weaker
1301
01:13:52,178 --> 01:13:53,930
"and I don't have the stamina
1302
01:13:54,347 --> 01:13:58,392
"and I'd just like to have every ounce
that I have to the creative process."
1303
01:13:58,976 --> 01:14:03,105
And I said, "Great. What do you need
and... and how can I help you?"
1304
01:14:03,189 --> 01:14:04,357
And he said, "Well...
1305
01:14:04,899 --> 01:14:08,694
"I'm gonna need more of the film making
to come to me than for me
1306
01:14:08,819 --> 01:14:13,824
"to come to the film making and, uh,
somehow or another you need to cover that
1307
01:14:13,991 --> 01:14:17,244
"for... for me," and... and I said,
"Well, fine.
1308
01:14:17,328 --> 01:14:19,080
"The only other way I can do it, Howard,
1309
01:14:19,163 --> 01:14:23,167
"is just to say, you know,
you are a diva... (CHUCKLING)
1310
01:14:23,584 --> 01:14:27,004
"...and you're worth it to the movies
and to the company and, um..."
1311
01:14:27,588 --> 01:14:31,509
You know, just sort of say to them
they're to start going to you.
1312
01:14:32,301 --> 01:14:36,639
ROGER: Wait a minute, we have to pack up
all of our storyboards,
1313
01:14:36,722 --> 01:14:39,350
and all the equipment,
we have to take them all apart
1314
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,728
and what... like six or seven of us,
we have to get on a plane,
1315
01:14:42,937 --> 01:14:45,648
go upstate New York, reassemble it
1316
01:14:45,898 --> 01:14:49,026
to take it to Howard? It was like
we were taking the mountain to Muhammad.
1317
01:14:49,151 --> 01:14:50,695
Why? You know, it just... it...
1318
01:14:50,820 --> 01:14:53,781
At the time, it felt like,
"Well, Howard, you know,
1319
01:14:53,864 --> 01:14:58,077
"has the... the golden Oscar on his mantel
so we have to come to him."
1320
01:14:58,661 --> 01:15:01,163
DON: So, we all arrive in this place
called Fishkill, New York.
1321
01:15:01,247 --> 01:15:04,667
It's North of New York, and we unpack
and there's... there's storyboards
1322
01:15:04,792 --> 01:15:07,545
and there's paper and pencils and crayons
and Twinkies and everything
1323
01:15:07,628 --> 01:15:09,380
that an animator needs
to get their job done.
1324
01:15:09,630 --> 01:15:11,090
Howard came in every morning,
1325
01:15:11,257 --> 01:15:14,093
and he always brought donuts with him,
and then we would start to work.
1326
01:15:14,218 --> 01:15:17,263
It got really intense because Howard had
these incredibly specific points of view
1327
01:15:17,388 --> 01:15:21,517
about things and it was difficult
and some days it went great...
1328
01:15:21,767 --> 01:15:22,643
(FIRE ROARS)
1329
01:15:22,727 --> 01:15:23,978
(SIZZLES)
1330
01:15:24,145 --> 01:15:26,355
-...and other days, not so much.
-(DOOR SQUEAKS, SHUTS)
1331
01:15:27,023 --> 01:15:31,610
HOWARD: Hi, Linda. This is, uh, Howard
and Alan here and we're gonna give you
1332
01:15:31,694 --> 01:15:35,740
a, uh, rough sketchy demo version
of the opening number.
1333
01:15:35,865 --> 01:15:37,450
Okay? Okay.
1334
01:15:38,617 --> 01:15:40,911
DON: So we storyboarded the beginning
of Beauty and the Beast
1335
01:15:40,995 --> 01:15:42,788
as just a non-musical moment.
1336
01:15:43,164 --> 01:15:45,875
Belle goes off, she leaves
her father's house, she goes into town.
1337
01:15:45,958 --> 01:15:48,919
She meets Gaston, she meets LeFou,
she buys a loaf of bread, she gets a book
1338
01:15:49,045 --> 01:15:50,087
and she comes home.
1339
01:15:50,504 --> 01:15:52,089
And Howard says,
"Well, let me take that."
1340
01:15:53,174 --> 01:15:57,970
Little town, in just a quiet village
1341
01:15:58,179 --> 01:16:03,059
Every day like the one before
1342
01:16:03,225 --> 01:16:06,604
Little town, full of little people
1343
01:16:06,687 --> 01:16:10,441
DON: So he goes off with Alan
and he musicalizes that
1344
01:16:10,566 --> 01:16:14,195
into this amazing kind of operetta
that does exactly the same business
1345
01:16:14,278 --> 01:16:16,697
all in the context
of a four or five minute song.
1346
01:16:16,781 --> 01:16:19,158
But he's terrified about sending it
into Disney.
1347
01:16:20,076 --> 01:16:23,454
ALAN: We sent "Belle" and "Be Our Guest"
and I thought this was great stuff,
1348
01:16:23,537 --> 01:16:24,997
he didn't wanna send it out.
1349
01:16:25,164 --> 01:16:27,708
He said, "We can't send this,
we're gonna get laughed at.
1350
01:16:27,958 --> 01:16:30,294
"Who asked for a six-minute opening number
1351
01:16:30,461 --> 01:16:34,548
"with countermelodies and...
I mean, what are we thinking?"
1352
01:16:35,216 --> 01:16:37,134
I think he feared humiliation.
1353
01:16:37,635 --> 01:16:40,971
Both of us are people
who have a huge part of ourselves
1354
01:16:41,055 --> 01:16:43,432
that relate to the world
through our work
1355
01:16:43,808 --> 01:16:48,145
because our work is...
that's our emotional conduit.
1356
01:16:48,938 --> 01:16:50,731
Something needs to... to take off there
1357
01:16:50,815 --> 01:16:52,233
-to compensate for...
-I know David had felt
1358
01:16:52,316 --> 01:16:53,651
that it had to build back in.
1359
01:16:53,734 --> 01:16:55,861
I mean, I remember you saying that.
That you didn't...
1360
01:16:55,945 --> 01:16:58,155
That you shouldn't...
That you didn't feel you should jump
1361
01:16:58,239 --> 01:16:59,198
-right into tempo.
-Right.
1362
01:16:59,281 --> 01:17:00,783
Do you want it to get faster sooner?
1363
01:17:00,866 --> 01:17:03,577
You're asking... I mean, yeah.
It's not really sort of building into it.
1364
01:17:03,661 --> 01:17:05,704
-This is not a tempo question.
-(INDISTINCT) One...
1365
01:17:05,788 --> 01:17:08,541
Yeah, I know what you're saying.
That it doesn't hit...
1366
01:17:08,624 --> 01:17:12,002
Well, a lot of the orchestra thought so
'cause it's so much softer there.
1367
01:17:12,086 --> 01:17:13,337
-MALE VOICE: Okay.
-ALAN: That could be it.
1368
01:17:13,420 --> 01:17:14,469
MALE VOICE: Can something sustain...
1369
01:17:14,544 --> 01:17:15,840
MALE VOICE 2:
Well, there's a lot of chorus there.
1370
01:17:15,923 --> 01:17:19,260
One time on American Airlines
when I went back, to my delight,
1371
01:17:19,343 --> 01:17:22,471
they put it in a little pot
on a little tray with milk...
1372
01:17:22,555 --> 01:17:24,140
A little milk and sugar thing.
1373
01:17:24,223 --> 01:17:27,351
-And the teabag should be in the pot.
-And the teabag should be in the pot.
1374
01:17:27,476 --> 01:17:28,644
-JERRY: Steeping.
-Steeping.
1375
01:17:28,727 --> 01:17:31,689
Because if the water isn't boiling,
it doesn't make tea...
1376
01:17:31,814 --> 01:17:33,357
-Right, yes, yes.
-...out of the teabag.
1377
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:35,943
-The water from the tap. (CHUCKLES)
-(LAUGHS) You know that.
1378
01:17:36,026 --> 01:17:39,280
You know, I... I told you I have
a terrific collection of teapots.
1379
01:17:39,363 --> 01:17:41,490
You wanna know anything about tea,
I could tell you.
1380
01:17:42,908 --> 01:17:44,743
(INDISTINCT)
1381
01:17:44,827 --> 01:17:48,455
JERRY: It is with deepest pride
and greatest pleasure
1382
01:17:48,664 --> 01:17:54,587
that we welcome you tonight. And now,
we invite you to relax, pull up a chair,
1383
01:17:54,795 --> 01:17:59,425
as the dining room proudly presents...
your dinner.
1384
01:18:01,343 --> 01:18:08,267
Be our guest, be our guest
Put our service to the test
1385
01:18:09,226 --> 01:18:11,729
ALAN:
They were incredible. At that session,
1386
01:18:11,854 --> 01:18:15,691
I remember it was both Jerry Orbach
and Angela at the same session.
1387
01:18:15,816 --> 01:18:18,569
I mean, it was musical theater heaven.
1388
01:18:18,819 --> 01:18:24,074
KIRK: There was just an incredible thrill
to be able to walk into that studio
1389
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:28,454
in New York and have this full orchestra
and this full chorus,
1390
01:18:28,746 --> 01:18:31,540
performing this stuff live, I mean,
we created the soundtrack
1391
01:18:31,624 --> 01:18:33,918
to Beauty and the Beast
like... like a Broadway cast album.
1392
01:18:34,627 --> 01:18:38,380
What I admired about Howard
was he never gave vague direction.
1393
01:18:38,589 --> 01:18:41,383
He never gave any direction
that was, like, kinda namby-pamby
1394
01:18:41,467 --> 01:18:42,509
or wishy-washy,
1395
01:18:42,593 --> 01:18:47,097
he was very specific right down to...
to, "When we get to this word,
1396
01:18:47,223 --> 01:18:50,184
"could you stress this word
more than the previous word?"
1397
01:18:50,726 --> 01:18:54,605
He.. he was just extremely specific and...
and focused as to what he wanted.
1398
01:18:54,688 --> 01:18:56,190
The orchestra, it's fine there anyways.
1399
01:18:56,273 --> 01:18:57,942
Yeah, the orchestration
gets real big there.
1400
01:18:58,025 --> 01:18:59,360
Maybe I should talk to Danny about
1401
01:18:59,443 --> 01:19:02,071
pulling it down a little bit
so that you, you know, you don't have
1402
01:19:02,154 --> 01:19:05,199
-to scream to get over it.
-Well, we're separate tracks aren't we?
1403
01:19:05,282 --> 01:19:07,326
That's true. I'm just wondering
if what you're hearing
1404
01:19:07,409 --> 01:19:08,619
-and you can't sing it.
-Yeah.
1405
01:19:09,036 --> 01:19:11,705
Uh, I'll play it...
play it up and play it down.
1406
01:19:11,789 --> 01:19:13,415
-We'll see how... which is better.
-Great.
1407
01:19:13,582 --> 01:19:16,460
Great, and we should... similarly,
we should... we should get at least one
1408
01:19:16,543 --> 01:19:19,672
on this build sec... build section.
(CLEARS THROAT) Um...
1409
01:19:20,047 --> 01:19:22,091
So, one point too, for you,
"Our Guest"...
1410
01:19:22,174 --> 01:19:25,970
It's a guest, it's a guest
Sakes alive, well I'll be blessed!
1411
01:19:26,053 --> 01:19:29,765
Wine's been poured and thank the Lord
I've had the napkins freshly pressed
1412
01:19:29,848 --> 01:19:33,602
With dessert, you'll want tea
And my dear that's fine with me
1413
01:19:33,727 --> 01:19:37,564
While the cups do their soft-shoeing
I'll be bubbling, I'll be brewing
1414
01:19:37,690 --> 01:19:41,318
I'll get warm, piping hot
Heaven's sakes! Is that a spot?
1415
01:19:41,527 --> 01:19:46,991
Clean it up, we want the company impressed
We've got a lot to do!
1416
01:19:47,116 --> 01:19:48,826
HOWARD:
That's such a good take.
1417
01:19:51,453 --> 01:19:52,746
Dave, I think that's the take.
1418
01:19:53,539 --> 01:19:54,873
-Let's give a listen.
-DAVE: Yeah.
1419
01:19:55,374 --> 01:19:58,210
Why don't you wait... Let's wait till
Jerry and Angela come in, okay.
1420
01:19:58,335 --> 01:20:00,045
("BE OUR GUEST" RECORDING PLAYING)
1421
01:20:00,170 --> 01:20:06,260
Course by course, one by one
1422
01:20:06,510 --> 01:20:09,346
Till you shout, "Enough I'm done!"
1423
01:20:09,555 --> 01:20:12,933
Then we'll sing you off to sleep
As you digest
1424
01:20:13,058 --> 01:20:17,062
Tonight you'll prop your feet up
But for now, let's eat up
1425
01:20:17,146 --> 01:20:21,942
-Be our guest, be our guest, be our guest
-Be our guest, be our guest, be our guest
1426
01:20:22,067 --> 01:20:29,033
-Please, be our guest
-Please, be our guest
1427
01:20:33,495 --> 01:20:34,621
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1428
01:20:34,705 --> 01:20:37,750
ALAN:
It was such a poignant contrast.
1429
01:20:38,667 --> 01:20:44,840
Um... the joy of... and... and the magic
of that movie and...
1430
01:20:45,716 --> 01:20:47,926
the... and the... and the fact that he was
1431
01:20:48,010 --> 01:20:49,720
look... literally staring death
in the face
1432
01:20:49,803 --> 01:20:52,973
at the age of, you know, 39.
1433
01:20:53,599 --> 01:20:57,186
CHRIS: I remember one night
I wanted to push, as I did often,
1434
01:20:57,269 --> 01:21:00,356
to keep going to do something late
because I... from a production standpoint
1435
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:03,233
I knew we had to do it,
and I don't remember who took me aside
1436
01:21:03,317 --> 01:21:04,401
but said, you know,
1437
01:21:04,485 --> 01:21:07,071
or maybe even Howard said, "You know,
I just can't do it tonight,"
1438
01:21:07,154 --> 01:21:10,908
but there was... Somebody brought me in
to the inner circle that night
1439
01:21:11,241 --> 01:21:14,495
because... when you're...
when you're with somebody
1440
01:21:14,828 --> 01:21:17,873
and it's so gradual,
it wasn't that obvious to me,
1441
01:21:17,998 --> 01:21:20,876
and then the moment somebody actually
tells you, you go, "Oh. Oh, yeah.
1442
01:21:22,002 --> 01:21:23,337
(TAPE RECORDER BEEPING)
1443
01:21:34,765 --> 01:21:35,724
JOHN: Uh-huh.
1444
01:21:48,695 --> 01:21:49,571
JOHN:
Uh-huh.
1445
01:21:54,743 --> 01:21:55,619
JOHN:
Yeah.
1446
01:21:57,996 --> 01:21:58,872
JOHN: Mm-hmm.
1447
01:22:00,582 --> 01:22:02,376
-JOHN: Right.
-HOWARD:
1448
01:22:02,543 --> 01:22:05,546
-JOHN: Right. Right.
-HOWARD:
1449
01:22:10,551 --> 01:22:12,469
-JOHN: Right.
-HOWARD:
1450
01:22:14,138 --> 01:22:16,598
ALAN: And by the time
we went back to Aladdin...
1451
01:22:17,307 --> 01:22:20,436
um, Howard was now openly sick.
1452
01:22:21,311 --> 01:22:25,399
We needed a song for Jafar, or we wanted
to try to have a song for Jafar,
1453
01:22:25,732 --> 01:22:29,945
and Howard chose the moment
where Jafar is now triumphant
1454
01:22:30,404 --> 01:22:35,242
and one by one, everything
is being taken away from Aladdin.
1455
01:22:35,951 --> 01:22:41,039
Well, at that time, Howard was suffering
these neuropathies
1456
01:22:41,248 --> 01:22:45,878
and he'd lose the sensation in his fingers
or he'd lose his voice.
1457
01:22:46,628 --> 01:22:50,174
He'd lose part of his eyesight,
he'd... Things would just go.
1458
01:22:50,799 --> 01:22:55,804
And he had Jafar singing this song called
"Humiliate the Boy" and it's a gleeful...
1459
01:22:55,929 --> 01:22:58,682
(VOCALIZING)
1460
01:22:59,224 --> 01:23:02,769
And one by one, we're taking everything
away from Aladdin,
1461
01:23:02,853 --> 01:23:04,605
stripping him down to nothing.
1462
01:23:05,272 --> 01:23:07,649
And all of us, I think, recognized
that there was
1463
01:23:07,774 --> 01:23:10,569
a pretty strong subtext to this.
1464
01:23:11,361 --> 01:23:14,364
PETER: Great artists give you a way
of looking at the world
1465
01:23:14,490 --> 01:23:17,075
that you never saw before and that...
1466
01:23:17,284 --> 01:23:19,870
The only way they can do that
is to show you their world.
1467
01:23:20,996 --> 01:23:25,375
And I think Howard showed us
his world through his lyrics
1468
01:23:25,542 --> 01:23:27,085
and his storytelling.
1469
01:23:27,294 --> 01:23:29,963
BILL: To me, "The Mob Song"
in Beauty and the Beast
1470
01:23:30,380 --> 01:23:35,677
is trying to... to just imbue
some point of view
1471
01:23:36,136 --> 01:23:38,514
through a very subtle way,
1472
01:23:38,889 --> 01:23:41,767
and he didn't want to make
political theater,
1473
01:23:42,351 --> 01:23:46,480
but I think he wanted
to present characters
1474
01:23:46,563 --> 01:23:51,652
that cast some kind of light
on certain topics.
1475
01:23:51,902 --> 01:23:55,155
We don't like what we don't understand
In fact it scares us
1476
01:23:55,280 --> 01:24:00,369
And this monster is mysterious at least
Bring your guns bring your knives
1477
01:24:00,494 --> 01:24:04,998
Save your children and your wives
We'll save our village and our lives
1478
01:24:05,165 --> 01:24:06,750
We'll kill the beast
1479
01:24:07,626 --> 01:24:12,506
BILL: The "Mob Song"
is a perfect manifestation of people
1480
01:24:12,881 --> 01:24:17,261
seeking a... a, uh, scapegoat
for their troubles
1481
01:24:17,553 --> 01:24:21,056
and identifying a villain
and wanting to exterminate it.
1482
01:24:21,306 --> 01:24:26,937
Um, there was a lot of ignorance
about AIDS and people did still believe
1483
01:24:27,020 --> 01:24:29,398
that you could get it
from casual contact
1484
01:24:30,023 --> 01:24:34,486
and... and that the only people
that got this disease were degenerates
1485
01:24:34,736 --> 01:24:39,324
and... and people that deserved it,
um, and so to identify yourself
1486
01:24:39,491 --> 01:24:44,830
as one of those...
was asking for... To be shunned.
1487
01:24:45,581 --> 01:24:47,791
THOMAS:
You can never take Beauty and the Beast
1488
01:24:47,874 --> 01:24:50,210
away from the AIDS epidemic
1489
01:24:50,335 --> 01:24:52,337
because it's a movie that speaks
to its time,
1490
01:24:52,462 --> 01:24:55,215
and this is an AIDS metaphor,
1491
01:24:55,382 --> 01:24:58,010
metaphorically done at a time
when I don't even know if the creators
1492
01:24:58,093 --> 01:25:00,262
of it were aware
that they were creating it.
1493
01:25:01,388 --> 01:25:04,224
SARAH: People who question the Beast
and the "kill the Beast",
1494
01:25:04,308 --> 01:25:06,685
and was he talking about AIDS, and...
I always think...
1495
01:25:06,810 --> 01:25:08,895
I... I believe it's a bunch of hooey,
I don't think
1496
01:25:08,979 --> 01:25:12,190
he... he put his personal life
in anything
1497
01:25:12,316 --> 01:25:16,945
he wrote or did, but what there really was
with Howard was great empathy,
1498
01:25:17,446 --> 01:25:21,742
which means that he could put himself
in the other person's place.
1499
01:25:21,825 --> 01:25:24,745
It's not that he really wanted
to be a mermaid who got legs.
1500
01:25:25,162 --> 01:25:31,668
But he put himself in Ariel's position,
in Ariel's life, that's... that's empathy,
1501
01:25:32,044 --> 01:25:36,131
and from that... from that place,
you can write that character.
1502
01:25:37,049 --> 01:25:38,967
I think that's the definition
of an artist.
1503
01:25:39,718 --> 01:25:43,347
PETER: I think that was the genius
of Howard, was that he was not political.
1504
01:25:43,764 --> 01:25:48,602
He was human, he dealt with human issues
and human thoughts.
1505
01:25:49,436 --> 01:25:51,688
Talking about the kindness
of the human spirit.
1506
01:25:52,522 --> 01:25:55,192
I think that was Howard's gift
to all of us.
1507
01:25:56,193 --> 01:25:58,028
(SLOW MUSIC PLAYING)
1508
01:26:05,744 --> 01:26:09,956
BILL: You know, if I have a regret
about the... the... How we planned
1509
01:26:10,248 --> 01:26:14,252
the last few years of our life,
it would be centered mostly around
1510
01:26:14,419 --> 01:26:18,507
the decision to build the house
and sequester ourselves up there
1511
01:26:18,590 --> 01:26:20,008
away from the city.
1512
01:26:20,258 --> 01:26:25,347
Those last few months
were a very chaotic period
1513
01:26:25,472 --> 01:26:30,977
of hospitalization and... and obligation
to his work demands.
1514
01:26:31,895 --> 01:26:35,148
We weren't able to really spend
a lot of time just sort of
1515
01:26:35,524 --> 01:26:38,068
being with each other as partners,
1516
01:26:38,151 --> 01:26:41,363
um, and, you know, he...
he couldn't climb steps
1517
01:26:41,446 --> 01:26:43,615
so he had to sleep in a separate room.
1518
01:26:43,865 --> 01:26:46,535
Most of my interaction with him,
1519
01:26:46,702 --> 01:26:48,829
at that time, was about,
"What do you need?"
1520
01:26:48,954 --> 01:26:50,580
Giving him medications,
1521
01:26:50,664 --> 01:26:54,960
making sure he got meals,
it was about following program.
1522
01:26:55,919 --> 01:26:58,255
I had designed this house
for our future together
1523
01:26:58,338 --> 01:27:02,259
and we had no future together,
so then I'm left with the remnant of it.
1524
01:27:02,884 --> 01:27:04,177
I think we probably,
1525
01:27:04,678 --> 01:27:10,267
uh, had... had our goodbye
long before, um, he was actually gone.
1526
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:14,688
ROGER: By that time, and I don't know
if it's just 'cause the illness
1527
01:27:14,771 --> 01:27:18,692
was so beating him down,
he got gentler, I remember.
1528
01:27:19,025 --> 01:27:23,572
He was pretty feisty in the beginning,
and I'm sure it's because of all his anger
1529
01:27:23,697 --> 01:27:28,785
at having to have this stupid disease,
you know, and to know that...
1530
01:27:29,661 --> 01:27:33,999
there wasn't really any cure,
so it was the whole anger of...
1531
01:27:34,583 --> 01:27:37,753
damn it, he's just hitting his stride
and the stupid disease
1532
01:27:37,878 --> 01:27:39,421
is gonna just cut him short.
1533
01:27:41,173 --> 01:27:45,844
CHRIS: We were so in the middle of working
that... And those last sessions
1534
01:27:45,969 --> 01:27:49,055
on Beauty even before we were really deep
into Aladdin, we were holding the phone
1535
01:27:49,181 --> 01:27:52,934
up to Howard in the hospital.
I mean, that's pretty heavy stuff.
1536
01:27:54,352 --> 01:27:56,188
ALAN: We were writing things
on hospital beds.
1537
01:27:56,271 --> 01:27:59,024
I wrote "Prince Ali",
I... I hauled a keyboard
1538
01:27:59,107 --> 01:28:03,820
to St. Vincent's and we wrote it,
you know, literally on his hospital bed.
1539
01:28:04,696 --> 01:28:08,074
JODI: I went to the hospital
and I remember, you know,
1540
01:28:08,158 --> 01:28:12,996
kissing his cheek, holding his hand,
and just telling him that he's loved.
1541
01:28:14,748 --> 01:28:16,917
And I remember walking out of the hall...
1542
01:28:18,293 --> 01:28:20,253
and I broke down.
1543
01:28:23,882 --> 01:28:26,843
JEFFERY: So, we went to see him
and, you know, he was, you know,
1544
01:28:27,344 --> 01:28:30,931
80 pounds and... you know,
lost his sight
1545
01:28:31,223 --> 01:28:34,392
and, um, barely had a whisper of a voice.
1546
01:28:35,018 --> 01:28:37,437
DON: Beauty and the Beast
was still months away from being done
1547
01:28:37,521 --> 01:28:41,608
so we went to visit Howard
and, um, we all were really aware
1548
01:28:41,691 --> 01:28:43,944
that this was probably the last time
we would see him.
1549
01:28:45,070 --> 01:28:47,864
And I bent over
to say my goodbyes and, uh...
1550
01:28:48,865 --> 01:28:50,408
and tell him what he meant to us
1551
01:28:50,492 --> 01:28:52,536
and... and I said,
"Howard, you wouldn't believe it,
1552
01:28:52,828 --> 01:28:56,748
"I mean, it... People love this movie,
who would've thought?"
1553
01:28:57,249 --> 01:28:59,668
And Howard said, "I would've."
1554
01:29:03,129 --> 01:29:06,550
ALAN:
And morning of... of March 14th...
1555
01:29:07,801 --> 01:29:11,680
I wake from a dream, and in the dream
I'm visiting Howard at the hospital
1556
01:29:11,763 --> 01:29:13,682
and I, um, I go to see him.
1557
01:29:14,266 --> 01:29:18,562
He says, "Hey, hi," and he says,
"Help me up, help me up."
1558
01:29:19,563 --> 01:29:24,568
So I put my arm behind his back
and I just gently lift his body up,
1559
01:29:25,193 --> 01:29:30,699
but it has no weight... and I look
and I see he's wearing a black robe
1560
01:29:30,991 --> 01:29:32,409
and I put him on the bed.
1561
01:29:34,286 --> 01:29:38,123
And I... I woke from that dream
and I remember looking at the clock
1562
01:29:38,707 --> 01:29:41,209
and whatever the time was,
it was six something.
1563
01:29:41,918 --> 01:29:47,048
-That was when Howard passed.
-(SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING)
1564
01:30:08,361 --> 01:30:09,779
(WHIMSICAL MUSIC PLAYING)
1565
01:30:09,905 --> 01:30:15,660
SARAH: It was Howard having a great time,
Howard enjoying himself
1566
01:30:15,994 --> 01:30:20,665
and bringing you along on that journey.
That's what that day in Howard's room
1567
01:30:20,749 --> 01:30:26,588
was about that he created just for me,
this world, um, a fantasy.
1568
01:30:27,213 --> 01:30:31,343
What we got was...
was the tip of the iceberg.
1569
01:30:32,302 --> 01:30:35,138
God knows what he would've done,
but it would've been spectacular.
1570
01:30:35,722 --> 01:30:39,768
Howard and I shared a home
and a life together, and I'm very happy
1571
01:30:39,893 --> 01:30:43,813
and very proud to accept this for him,
but it is bittersweet.
1572
01:30:43,939 --> 01:30:47,984
This is the first Academy Award
given to someone we've lost to AIDS.
1573
01:30:48,985 --> 01:30:50,862
KYLE:
Since he passed away,
1574
01:30:51,655 --> 01:30:55,367
I keep thinking I'm going to recognize
that kind of talent
1575
01:30:55,450 --> 01:30:58,745
in somebody else I run into,
and I haven't.
1576
01:31:00,288 --> 01:31:04,042
ROGER: It's really in animation history
and in, uh, film history
1577
01:31:04,125 --> 01:31:07,420
and in musical history,
I feel like Howard's mark is indelible
1578
01:31:07,504 --> 01:31:11,466
and it's ongoing, it has not diminished
over the years.
1579
01:31:11,549 --> 01:31:14,928
Howard's gift was so strong
and his light was so bright
1580
01:31:15,011 --> 01:31:18,974
that, uh, it's... it's just as strong
today as it was then.
1581
01:31:22,769 --> 01:31:26,231
ALAN: He was the force behind
what all this has become.
1582
01:31:27,440 --> 01:31:30,402
And it came from his heart
and his intellect.
1583
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:37,200
And he didn't get to live to see it,
but his work lives on.
1584
01:31:42,872 --> 01:31:45,166
HOWARD: Maybe he's right.
Maybe there is something
1585
01:31:45,250 --> 01:31:46,376
the matter with me.
1586
01:31:46,626 --> 01:31:50,171
I just don't see how a world
that can make such wonderful things
1587
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:52,048
can be bad.
1588
01:31:52,716 --> 01:31:57,262
Look at this stuff, isn't it neat?
Wouldn't you think
1589
01:31:57,429 --> 01:32:02,142
My collection's complete?
Wouldn't you think I'm the girl
1590
01:32:02,267 --> 01:32:05,687
The girl who has everything?
1591
01:32:06,396 --> 01:32:09,858
Look at this trove, treasures untold
1592
01:32:10,108 --> 01:32:15,572
How many wonders can one cavern hold?
Lookin' around here you'd think
1593
01:32:15,739 --> 01:32:22,537
Sure, she's got everything
I got gadgets and gizmos aplenty
1594
01:32:23,413 --> 01:32:30,086
I got whozits and whatzits galore
You want thingamabobs? I got 20
1595
01:32:30,754 --> 01:32:37,635
But who cares? No big deal
I want more
1596
01:32:42,557 --> 01:32:45,935
I want to be where the people are
1597
01:32:46,394 --> 01:32:50,356
I want to see
Want to see 'em dancin'
1598
01:32:50,482 --> 01:32:56,279
Walkin' around on those
Whad'ya call 'em? Oh, feet
1599
01:32:57,489 --> 01:33:01,117
Flippin' your fins you don't get too far
1600
01:33:01,284 --> 01:33:04,704
Legs are required for jumpin', dancin'
1601
01:33:04,788 --> 01:33:10,710
Strollin' along down a
What's that word again? Street
1602
01:33:11,211 --> 01:33:18,176
Up where they walk, up where they run
Up where they stay all day in the sun
1603
01:33:18,676 --> 01:33:25,475
Wanderin' free, wish I could be
Part of that world
1604
01:33:26,309 --> 01:33:27,811
(MUSIC PLAYING)