1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Under the Children and Young Persons Act 1963, 4 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:49,680 children as young as 10 are tried for murder as adults in England and Wales. 5 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,160 Based on a true story. 6 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:05,720 How old are you, Rafael? 7 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:09,400 I'm 12. 8 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,960 Do you understand why you've been arrested? 9 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,040 - Yeah. I do. - Right. 10 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,760 An incident occurred on early Wednesday morning 11 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,320 in which one person was murdered. 12 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,360 Four persons were known to be at the scene at the time, 13 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,400 one of which has been named as the detained person. 14 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,360 Therefore, the detained person has arrived at this police station 15 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,640 this night and has been arrested on suspicion of murder. 16 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:34,840 Do you understand that? 17 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:37,120 Yes. 18 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,280 So, based on that information, 19 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,120 I'm going to authorise your detention here 20 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,240 to secure and preserve evidence by means of questioning. 21 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,200 An appropriate adult is en route to custody now to support you. Okay? 22 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:53,920 Yes. 23 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:21,960 RESPONSIBLE CHILD 24 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,800 Yeah, but over nine frigging hours in an adult cell? 25 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:27,960 -It's unlawful. -Where else would we put him? 26 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,680 Did anyone try and liaise with the local authority at all? 27 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,520 -They came in at night-time. -How inconvenient for the nine-to-fives. 28 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,520 The law then stipulates each station have a child-friendly cell. 29 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,920 He's being detained for murder, not truancy. 30 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,560 He's still a child, but! 31 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:45,280 - It's a Victorian building, Pete. - Yeah, Victorian's fucking right. 32 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,720 What kept you so long, anyway? 33 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,280 Some brainiac upstairs put both brothers in with the same firm. 34 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:09,480 Well, now. 35 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,360 I'm Pete. 36 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:14,160 Your solicitor. 37 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,720 Which means I'm going to guide you through this. 38 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,080 Now, I know I'm a bit dodgy-looking, like, but, erm, may I? 39 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,560 I bet you prefer being called Ray. 40 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,400 Huh? 41 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,400 I'll let you in on a little something. 42 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:48,560 My full name? 43 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:51,440 Petrotheus. 44 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:55,600 On my life. 45 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:57,680 Literally. 46 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:01,080 You eaten? 47 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:09,440 Aha! Well, let's see what we can... 48 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,480 It's not quite a rabbit, I know. 49 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,320 But, erm... Mmm! 50 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,560 Go on. There's one for you, too. 51 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,360 I'm in private consultation with my client. 52 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:39,440 Yeah, okay. 53 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,520 I'll, er... I'll see you shortly, Rafael. 54 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:43,600 Yep. 55 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,720 Appropriate adult. Can't trust him. Bound by law. 56 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,600 So, like, something you said, that he heard, 57 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,480 could be used against you in court. 58 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,200 Say nothing. 59 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:02,960 Except to me. 60 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:04,640 Okay? 61 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:07,720 Now... 62 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:12,920 We're going to need to prepare a statement. 63 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,000 So that, in an interview, all you need to say to their questions 64 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:19,480 is, "No comment." 65 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,520 Okay? 66 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:25,520 Grand. 67 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,000 I'm not interested. 68 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:40,800 Good afternoon, yourself. 69 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,240 Now, Kerry, I have something that I think you'll... 70 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,520 Look, I still haven't been paid for that last fucking legal aid fiasco. 71 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:49,080 Murder. 72 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:50,360 Yeah, it might well come to it, Pete. 73 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:53,960 A child. 74 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,080 - Murdered? - No. 75 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:58,120 Murderer. 76 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,320 Needs a barrister. 77 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,040 Ah, I've got you, haven't I? 78 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:05,480 Go on. 79 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,280 Well, you'd think the boy had fallen off a cloud, 80 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,640 while the murder itself is as brutal, Kerry, 81 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,960 seriously, as I've ever seen. 82 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,880 Look, I have to go back in now, but, erm, I'll call you later, okay? 83 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:20,840 Okay. 84 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,240 All right. 85 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,920 Your statement says you found your dad's drinking and temper 86 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,760 impossible to live with any more. 87 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,800 So, on the 15th of June last year, 88 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,480 you packed some bags after school and left 89 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,960 to go and stay with your mum and older brother, is that right? 90 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,000 - Hi. Hey. - Hey. 91 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:54,760 Hey, what's... 92 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,120 I can't stay with Dad any more. 93 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,080 Who's that at this time? 94 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:06,640 Don't worry about him. 95 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:07,920 Okay? 96 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:20,760 Hello, Ray. 97 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:22,520 Hey, Mum. 98 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,200 Bit late for a visit, Ray. 99 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:27,880 Yeah. 100 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,040 Erm... Yeah, he was, erm... He was going to stay. 101 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,160 If that's okay, Scott? 102 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,400 What, for tonight? The sofa okay? 103 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:38,680 No, for, erm... 104 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,320 For a bit longer, maybe. 105 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,320 We ain't got the room, Ray. Sorry, mate. 106 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,400 Look, stay... Stay tonight. 107 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,320 But then back to your dad's tomorrow, yeah? 108 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:58,480 He can't go back there. 109 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:01,840 -Mum? -Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa! 110 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:04,960 What are you calling her for? 111 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,160 It's her... 112 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:07,560 It's her house. 113 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,160 "It's her house." 114 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:19,840 Frigging council's. 115 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,160 In my name. 116 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:23,560 Yeah. 117 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,440 Well, mine on all the bills. 118 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,320 Can barely afford to feed our own already, 119 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:31,600 let alone that waste of fucking space. 120 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:33,160 Don't call my brother that. 121 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,720 Look, it's our mum's house, yeah? And Ray's got nowhere else. So... 122 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,640 Piss off back to your dad's with him! 123 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,720 I'm not leaving you here alone with Mum. 124 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,240 What did you say? 125 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,840 Nathan didn't say anything. 126 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,720 In my own home. 127 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,360 After a day's graft, struggling to keep a roof over my family, 128 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:10,960 and he's fucking telling me this and that? 129 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,560 It's okay. Hold on. 130 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,640 I'll sort it. Okay? 131 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,480 Don't you ever speak to me like that again! 132 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:26,240 I'm just trying to help my brother, 133 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:27,720 cos he's got nowhere else to live. 134 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,040 Well, why won't you leave me alone with your mum? 135 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,920 You know why I'm not going to leave you alone with her. 136 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,440 Cos I've seen exactly what you're like. 137 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,200 I'll fucking... 138 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:36,840 I'm going to fucking kill you! 139 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:40,880 Oh! What you... 140 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,560 If you'd just care to sign it for me? 141 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,600 -Thank you. -We'll be in touch. 142 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:35,880 Cheers. 143 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,520 Please. That's my family home. That's my home. 144 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,160 I was glad to see your name down. 145 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,480 Right back at you, darling. 146 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:20,040 You been all right? 147 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,800 Oh, keeping on, you know? 148 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,200 Hmm. 149 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,920 Now, I'm going to briefly introduce you to Miss Stephens, 150 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,040 who's going to be your defence barrister, 151 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,200 along with the rest of your team, all right? 152 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:44,480 Now, today is not really about your case, as such, it's just about... 153 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,040 Well, now. 154 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,960 Kerry. How are you? 155 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,320 Hello, Pete. 156 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:53,680 This is Ray. 157 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:57,160 Hello, Ray. 158 00:12:58,760 --> 00:12:59,960 I'm Kerry. 159 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,200 I will be your defence throughout. 160 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,560 If you don't like me, don't trust me, Pete will find you someone else. 161 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,040 Good. 162 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:11,480 Now, 163 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,080 this is Gary from the youth offending team. 164 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,360 All right, mate? 165 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,600 He is responsible for overseeing your case up until sentence. 166 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:20,720 -And this... -Grace. 167 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,960 From Children's Services. 168 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:27,920 Right, guys. Let's crack on. 169 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,000 Ray? 170 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,680 She's a wee bit full-on, but she'll fight to her shadow for you. 171 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,440 Now, we need to prepare for your preliminary hearing. 172 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,440 The police are looking to up Scott's charges, 173 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,440 so he could be in custody for a while. 174 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,920 It's just you with the kids for the time being. 175 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,360 We know you've had some bonding issues there in the past. 176 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,080 Please don't take another baby. 177 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,000 Now, Veronica, that was a long time ago 178 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,040 and you've been doing really well with things since. All right? 179 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,280 We just want to make sure you're coping 180 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,600 now that Scott isn't here to help with looking after the little ones. 181 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,160 That is all the assessment is about. 182 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:22,280 Thought you were at work. 183 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,560 No, I'm going in later. 184 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,800 He's not getting bail, you know. 185 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:30,560 Yeah, I know. 186 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:32,640 I know. 187 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,680 Do you want to play some Days of Battle? 188 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,320 "Be brave as the shadows close upon you 189 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,000 "for we shall endure until light returns once more!" 190 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,320 In a bit, Ray. 191 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,000 Okay? 192 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:58,640 Affirmative. 193 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:36,800 What a good boy. 194 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,440 Be brave as the shadows close upon you, 195 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,520 for we shall endure until the light returns once more. 196 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,360 There. 197 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,080 Stealth, my son. 198 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:28,480 You're done. 199 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,880 So you're saying we're not going to do anything 200 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,920 unless he doesn't remand him to the care of the local authority? 201 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:13,880 You okay? 202 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,160 Court rise. 203 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:28,880 Please stand. 204 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,240 Rafael McCullin. 205 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,080 I can't tell you how desperately sad I find it 206 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,280 to see you stand here today accused of murdering a man. 207 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:39,360 And brutally. 208 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,240 Having looked over everything to hand up to this point, 209 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,000 I am remanding you into local authority foster care 210 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,240 until this comes to trial. 211 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,400 Do you understand me? 212 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:52,480 Erm... 213 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,040 Yeah. 214 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,520 "Yes, Your Honour." 215 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,440 Yes, Your Honour. 216 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,520 Nathaniel McCullin. 217 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,600 You will be held on remand until the trial. 218 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,360 But we'll stay in the same place. 219 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:11,440 Won't we, Pete? 220 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:16,600 But we have to. 221 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:18,800 Can you ask him, please? 222 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:20,680 Court rise. 223 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,360 ...to the live finals of Got to Dance! 224 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,280 Mini Moves is holding it down for the ladies. 225 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,000 You've created and invented your own dance style... 226 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,400 Come on. Down you get. 227 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,840 There you go. 228 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,280 Do you want to... 229 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,280 Right, wait there. 230 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,640 Yeah, one, two... 231 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,760 See you later, okay, Mum? 232 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,280 Okay. 233 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,120 "The littluns pushed Percival forward, then left him by himself. 234 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,560 "He stood knee-deep in the central grass, 235 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,360 "looking at his hidden feet, trying to pretend..." 236 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:30,640 Sorry I'm late. 237 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,080 For, like, the zillionth time. 238 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,440 Okay, thank you. 239 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,280 Ray, can you wait behind after, please? 240 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,600 Dalbinder, can you share with Ray, please? 241 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,360 And, Gemma, pick up. 242 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,720 Does something smell like shit round here? 243 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,280 Okay, that's enough! 244 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:47,640 Thank you. 245 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,200 Gemma. 246 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,760 "Ralph remembered another small boy who had stood like this 247 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,400 "and he flinched away from the memory. 248 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,160 "He had pushed through," erm... 249 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,880 "He had pushed the thought down and out of sight." 250 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,480 So, er, Services have updated us on the Crown 251 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,720 upping your stepdad's charge to attempted murder. 252 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:11,600 How are you feeling about it all? 253 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,000 Is your mum coping all right? 254 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:19,520 Yeah? 255 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,720 What about your older brother? Is he okay? 256 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:28,880 Ray? 257 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,840 Well, I'm going to have to put you on attendance report, Ray. 258 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,000 Nathan's fine. 259 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,200 We're all fine. 260 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,240 Thank you. 261 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:44,960 Okay. 262 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:47,080 Well... 263 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,840 A special school grant might help a little bit. 264 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:55,960 Please? 265 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,240 Just get yourself some clothes for mufti day, or something. 266 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,080 Yeah? 267 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,000 Sorry. 268 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:08,800 You all right in there, Mum? 269 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,720 I left them to re-heat too long. 270 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,080 They're all right. 271 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,920 And then acting like nothing happened? 272 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,160 You got to quit it. Seriously, you have to quit it. 273 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,080 -Buon appetito! -Oh, thanks. 274 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,760 That kid's got to be CGI. 275 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,640 I mean, pulling moves like that? 276 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,960 -Or a robot. -Yeah, yeah. 277 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,960 Like some sick psycho robot kid that breakdances the judges to bits. 278 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,920 I don't want this psych test messing with the boy's head. 279 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,960 He's in a vulnerable enough state already. 280 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,160 I know. 281 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:54,880 Hi. 282 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,400 Er, I'd like us to have a chat alone first. 283 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:58,680 If that's okay with you, Rafael? 284 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:01,960 Okay? 285 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,640 Do you know why you're here, Rafael? 286 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,600 Erm... 287 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,840 To see if I'm okay for the trial. 288 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,680 Yeah. Good. Fit to plead. 289 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,520 I get lost in that. 290 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,480 The universe. It's like the mind. 291 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,720 Our own unknowable. 292 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,000 It's called The Pillars of Creation. 293 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,040 Whoa. 294 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,760 That's wonderful. Thank you. 295 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,360 Are you keen on space, then? 296 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,040 Erm... 297 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,640 I like, erm, astronomy. 298 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,080 Yeah. 299 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:13,400 Of course. 300 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,600 So, do you miss school? 301 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:17,720 A bit. 302 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,680 Did you ever get in any fights? 303 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,200 Erm, not really. 304 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,400 Erm, one. 305 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:27,480 Hmm. 306 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:29,680 And what happened? 307 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,120 Did you win? 308 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,080 Got broken up. 309 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,280 Got suspended. 310 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,360 Like to talk about it? 311 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:48,960 I crushed a ladybird. 312 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,840 I killed it. 313 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,280 Because you got suspended? 314 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,160 No. 315 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,360 Erm, I don't know. 316 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,120 Okay. 317 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:03,520 So, how did that make you feel? 318 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,480 On a scale of one to 10, one being great, 10 being terrible. 319 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,200 Erm... 320 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:15,760 Like, nine? 321 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:17,520 Right. 322 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,920 So, why does that make you feel so terrible, do you think? 323 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,280 It didn't deserve it. 324 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,280 It didn't do anything wrong. 325 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,640 I killed it. 326 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,280 Anything make you feel 10? 327 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,720 My brother, Nathan. 328 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,120 Christie. 329 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:48,800 And Serena. 330 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,000 Hmm. 331 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,240 My mum. 332 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,800 And Scott? 333 00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:59,920 What happened? 334 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,080 Does that make you feel 10, too? 335 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:08,960 Nine, then? 336 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,960 Eight? 337 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,240 Okay. All right. 338 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,680 I can give you some strategies for now for when you feel like that. 339 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,800 Breathing exercises. 340 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,160 Okay? 341 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,800 Rafael has expressed symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. 342 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,720 He is only just beginning to remember the murder. 343 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,040 Fragments. 344 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:41,920 But he isn't ready to address it. 345 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,520 Address? In what way? 346 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,040 Rafael refuses to accept any liability for the murder. 347 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,360 Rather, that it was the deceased's fault. 348 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,600 And what do you make of him? 349 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,680 Well, I'll need to make my report. Informally? 350 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,040 He has no obvious psychopathic traits. 351 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:02,880 He displays clear empathy and sensitivity. 352 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,160 And how might he come across? 353 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,240 The child in court? Well, he's intelligent, articulate, 354 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,840 but reserved. Self-contained. 355 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,640 Add the pressure of the setting... 356 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,880 So, callous. Devious. 357 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,720 Not damaged enough, outwardly. 358 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,280 You know, if Rafael was tried through the youth courts, 359 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:25,560 the decision would lie solely with the judge. 360 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,880 Who'd make a decision based on all aspects of this child's life. 361 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,600 But this is murder. 362 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,080 And he has to face a jury. 363 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,240 So, what is it? We try a child as young as 10, 364 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,960 who isn't, by law, allowed to buy a pet bloody hamster until he's 16, 365 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,040 as an adult? 366 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,800 Well, we have no in-between here, so... 367 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,640 Look, he's just lucky to have you both fighting his corner. 368 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,360 Not all the kids I see here are, I tell you. 369 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,240 Is there else anything we can use? 370 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,640 PTSD? You mentioned Ray had... 371 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,200 Repercussions of the act. 372 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,480 Erm... 373 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,760 Also possibly from other accumulated experiences of violence. 374 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,640 Any other mitigating factors? 375 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,960 You look surprised to see me. 376 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,120 The court didn't believe your brother. 377 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,400 Been acquitted. 378 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,000 Ray, this is my home. 379 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,200 And there is no way you and your brother are getting rid of me again. 380 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:46,760 Those for the littluns? 381 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,320 Oh, look at you two! 382 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,120 I have missed you two little munchkins so much! 383 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,200 Come here! 384 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,000 Fuck off. 385 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,880 What you got here? Who is it? 386 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,440 Go away. Go away! 387 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:07,800 I ain't going nowhere, mate. 388 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,880 -Go away! -You go. 389 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,120 -Go away! -Nathan. 390 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,200 -Go away! -I ain't going nowhere. 391 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,680 -Go away! -Going nowhere. 392 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,000 This can't... Go away! This can't... This can't be real... 393 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:26,680 The man was asleep on the sofa. 394 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,960 They went down those stairs to kill him. 395 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,760 It's premeditation. End of. 396 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,680 Because of what their mother told Nathan, that Scott was going to... 397 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,560 Finish the job. Right. 398 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,680 For which we only have Nathan and Veronica's words. 399 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,360 And I am not putting his mother in the witness box. 400 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,080 And as for him... 401 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,800 Christ. Poor fella was in a heck of a state, all right. 402 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,080 His crowd will surely show that. 403 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,320 It's their ace. 404 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,160 And ours, too. 405 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,400 Maybe. 406 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:11,520 Ray sees big, beloved brother in the doorway, in that state, 407 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,440 saying he's in imminent danger for his life, 408 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:21,080 added to the experience of the earlier trauma, building... 409 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,040 "Where there is a fear of serious violence, 410 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,440 "it needs to be in respect of violence against the defendant 411 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,360 "or another identified person." 412 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,000 AKA Nathan. 413 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,240 It's a shot in the dark that the prosecution will tear right into, 414 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,320 but the loss of control needn't be in the moment. 415 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,920 If we can show it built up over time, we're in with a chance. 416 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:04,680 Here comes trouble. 417 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,680 Hasn't a clue what's about to hit him. 418 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,440 Now, Ray, because of your age, 419 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,080 the Crown has certain concessions it can make. 420 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,840 Would you prefer to sit with your legal team, 421 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,320 with us, or on your own? 422 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,080 You, please. But what about Nathan? 423 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,640 His team will look after him. 424 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,000 We need... 425 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,040 You need... 426 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,760 Ray, look at me when I'm talking to you, please. 427 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:38,800 Thank you. 428 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,240 You need to focus on you now. 429 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,320 And no one else. 430 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,600 It's very important, Ray. 431 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,440 In a few days, you're going to be sat in court 432 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,640 with everyone looking at you like you're Dracula's son. 433 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,240 -You need to be ready. -Yeah, okay. 434 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,960 The Crown will push hard for murder. 435 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,400 Hmm. 436 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,560 What's the difference? 437 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,160 Between manslaughter and murder? 438 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,000 Ten-years-plus in prison, maybe. 439 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,960 If you were a 30-year-old man with the mind of someone your age, 440 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,600 you would be judged not fit for trial. But you're not, Ray. 441 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,920 I will fight to get you as much of a life as possible. 442 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,120 But I need you to be strong for me. 443 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,880 Okay? 444 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,640 So, we're going with loss of control. 445 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,240 And what will really help this defence, we hope, is Nathan giving evidence, 446 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,720 saying he came into your room that night. 447 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:45,960 Is that right? 448 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,800 Yeah. 449 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,680 He says he was in immediate fear for his life, 450 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,400 so you felt you had no other choice, but to go down those stairs with him. 451 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,280 Is that what happened? 452 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,320 Yeah, it was. 453 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,000 Okay, Ray. 454 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,240 Good. And so, then... 455 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,560 You lost control, did you? 456 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,440 Right. 457 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,880 Stealth, my son. 458 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,920 Now, stay sharp. They're coming in from all sides. 459 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,680 They need somewhere to stay, Scott. 460 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,520 They put me down for a scuffle. That's what! 461 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,040 -Those boys tried to get me put away! 462 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,200 They're my boys! 463 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,000 Nathan's stuck up in that loft, laughing down at me! 464 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,600 And he'd better stay up there if he knows what's good for him. 465 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,920 The only place I can get some peace is that bloody shed! 466 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,760 And that's my space! 467 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,000 Okay, so, those tables right there. 468 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,760 You're sat just right here, okay? 469 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:31,800 All rise. 470 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,320 Before this trial can formally begin, a request has been made 471 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,360 that Section 39, press reporting restrictions, be lifted. 472 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,720 -Your Honour? -And I must agree. 473 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,760 The sheer ferocity of the attack 474 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,360 leaves it in the public's best interest I do so. 475 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,080 But naming the boy leaves his whole future marked, 476 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,640 let alone his case. 477 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:07,920 It is final, Miss Stephens. 478 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,480 Call the jury, please. 479 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,000 "Be brave as the shadows close upon you." 480 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,400 "For we shall endure until light returns once more." 481 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,960 Will the accused please stand? 482 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:41,640 Stand up. 483 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,080 Rafael Jack McCullin, you stand accused of the murder 484 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,280 of Scott Adam Jameson, and are pleading not guilty. 485 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,800 You may now sit down. 486 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,400 Nathaniel Martin McCullin, you also stand 487 00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,920 accused of the murder of Scott Adam Jameson, 488 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,240 and are pleading not guilty. 489 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,720 You may now sit down. 490 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:22,920 This was an horrific, merciless attack on a defenceless sleeping man, 491 00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:26,880 yet both defendants are putting forward a partial defence. 492 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:28,760 Loss of control. 493 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,280 Reducing murder to manslaughter, arguing, on that night, 494 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,480 the brothers acted out of an immediate fear for their lives. 495 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,400 The Crown will expose a cold-blooded murder, 496 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,800 borne out of anger. 497 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,440 Pure premeditated revenge. 498 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,400 And so we must also ask, what was discussed in Rafael's room? 499 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,800 What went on behind that door, before they then went down those stairs 500 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,720 and savagely killed their unwitting stepfather? 501 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,560 Murder or manslaughter? 502 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:09,360 Revenge 503 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:11,960 or loss of control? 504 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,760 - Oh, look at his outfit! - Oh, my days. 505 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,440 - Check out his grandpa's cardigan. - Dickhead! 506 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,840 Absolute wrong 'un, he is. 507 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,840 Why are you still wearing uniform? 508 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,520 What did you say to me? 509 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,040 Oh! 510 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,040 Fight! Fight! Fight! 511 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,440 I've got two home visits to get in still. Sorry, Amber. Ali. 512 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,240 Come on in. Grab a seat. 513 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,080 Thank you. 514 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,440 Sorry, sorry. Sorry, sorry. 515 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,800 Harder to get out of the house than woodworm, this one. 516 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,920 What you fighting for, eh? 517 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,800 So, the school have called the multi-agency meeting 518 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,240 because we're concerned about the effects on Ray and his siblings 519 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,600 of your return to the home, Mr Jameson. 520 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,000 Children's Services, as you know, no longer believe 521 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,880 the children are children in need. 522 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,360 Well, we feel that things have improved significantly 523 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,480 in the home since Mr Jameson's return, 524 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:49,840 particularly for the younger children, 525 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,120 who seem much more settled again as a consequence. 526 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,360 Well, Ray isn't more settled, 527 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,520 as the incident at lunchtime clearly attests. 528 00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,840 The altercation in the home was with the older brother. 529 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:02,880 Yeah, but the trauma of the incident for Ray alone... 530 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:04,320 Trauma? 531 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:06,240 Ray? 532 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,720 What trauma? 533 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:13,760 Don't know. 534 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,480 He had a scrap, is all. Just a scrap. 535 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,640 Nathaniel's still living in the home. 536 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:23,640 Is that right, Veronica? 537 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,640 Everything's all right now. 538 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:30,720 The Queen herself said so, or else I would not be sitting here. 539 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,240 Everything's okay now. 540 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,840 Well, I'd like to ask Ray. 541 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,520 Ray? 542 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,280 Is everything all right at home now? 543 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,880 A series of 57 stab wounds to the back, varying depths. 544 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,920 Twelve longer, deeper wounds to the upper right chest. 545 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,240 A number punctured the right lung. 546 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,720 A prolonged attempt to decapitate the head, all arteries severed, 547 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,440 only a small section of skin left connecting it to the body. 548 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,640 Many slash wounds to palms of hands, all defensive injuries. 549 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,600 Excuse me. Excuse me. Thank you. 550 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,200 Kerry. 551 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,040 Where's Ray? 552 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,240 -Ah, hey! -Is there anything you'd care to say? 553 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:48,760 Come on, Ray, inside. 554 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,280 Would you kindly piss off? 555 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:02,880 Everyone will know now. 556 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,120 Eat. 557 00:45:58,080 --> 00:45:59,680 Where's my big brother gone? 558 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:03,600 I don't know. 559 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,440 Well, get him back! 560 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,040 Get him back! 561 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,520 Look at the... Look at the state! 562 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,400 Look at the state of this place! 563 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,360 Why am I working so hard for us all, eh? 564 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,600 - Calm... Calm down. - Calm? 565 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,200 Don't tell me to be calm! 566 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,440 When this place is a tip, and they're still living here! 567 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,680 They're doing nothing but taking the piss! 568 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:51,960 You don't have to stay here. 569 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:53,760 What did you just say to me? 570 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,600 Don't you ever... Don't you ever speak to me like that again, 571 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:57,760 do you hear me? 572 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,920 In my own house! It's all fucking down to me! 573 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,760 You don't lift a finger, do you? It's all down to me! 574 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,120 Nothing ever fucking changes! 575 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:07,640 You don't do anything, woman! 576 00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:09,440 You don't lift a finger! 577 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,280 And as for you... 578 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,160 Come down here, you useless prick! 579 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,840 Get yourself down here now! Come on! 580 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:20,880 Yeah! I thought not! 581 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,520 We have established Nathaniel in some sorry state of depression. 582 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,760 At the time, at least, 583 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,840 which, as we are also aware, is no defence in itself. 584 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,120 But what of Rafael? 585 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,920 In your report, Doctor, you record him of sound mind. 586 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,120 A bright boy for his age. 587 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,400 As fit to plead as his adult brother. 588 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,360 Well, yes. But also, no. 589 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,360 I don't follow. Which one is it? 590 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,040 A child's mind isn't fully formed like an adult's. 591 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,480 Different aspects develop at different rates 592 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,440 as it continues to grow. 593 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,400 Yet you assessed Rafael as fit for trial. 594 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,240 He understands his charge? 595 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:11,600 Yes, he understands it. 596 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,160 And you record him as having no obvious psychiatric or psychotic problems? 597 00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:18,480 That is correct. Yes. 598 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,080 But, in fact, as a rather articulate, clever child, 599 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,240 and fit to plead? 600 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,200 Yes. 601 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:28,760 Thank you, Doctor. 602 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:30,720 Nothing further. 603 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:37,720 Dr Keaton, could you please explain to us how a child experiences the world? 604 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,520 Well, the child's reading of the world 605 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:45,880 comes from the sensory, emotional part of the brain 606 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,800 that reacts to impulse, instinct, aggression. 607 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,720 Whereas the more rational, decision-making part of the brain, 608 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,160 the pre-frontal cortex, 609 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:01,360 that responds to situations with good judgment, 610 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,680 isn't fully grown, literally, until we're adults. 611 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,440 It also struggles with futures, 612 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,840 understanding the long-term consequences of actions. 613 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:21,120 So there's a fundamental imbalance in their capacity for understanding. 614 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,600 Could you tell us, then, what might have been going on 615 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,760 inside a child's mind the night of such a murder, 616 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,880 in response to an imminent threat of violence, 617 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,600 experienced before, happening once again? 618 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,080 A child's brain aged 12, 13, 14, say, 619 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:45,080 would have been emotionally overwhelmed and compelled to react. 620 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,480 Thank you, Doctor. Nothing further. 621 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,480 So, after Mr Jameson's acquittal and return to the family home, 622 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,880 the collective decision was made that Rafael, 623 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,320 along with Serena and Christie, 624 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,120 would no longer be deemed "children in need." 625 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:24,240 Correct? 626 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,280 Yes. Yes, that is correct. 627 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,920 And why was that, Mrs Delaney? 628 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,360 Well, the children had their father back, 629 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,280 and they seemed much happier. 630 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,400 The family appeared much more stable a unit. 631 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,440 Much more stable? 632 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:39,720 Thank you. 633 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,240 Children in need are defined in law as children aged under 18 634 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,440 who need local authority services to prevent 635 00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:02,040 significant or further harm to health or development. 636 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,240 Do you recognise this definition 637 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,840 to be what constitutes a child in need by your services? 638 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:09,280 Er... Oh, yes. 639 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:10,720 That's it. Yes. 640 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:19,480 "To prevent significant or further harm to health or development." 641 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:25,480 Yet, after a terrifying incident Ray had witnessed against his elder brother, 642 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:30,320 its charge upped by this very court to attempted murder, 643 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,440 Mr Jameson's return to the household, 644 00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,000 along with the weapon used in that incident, 645 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,440 resulted in Rafael no longer being seen as a child in need. 646 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,240 Is this correct, Mrs Delaney? 647 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:44,880 Yes. 648 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:47,640 Nothing further. 649 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:55,120 Yet his record details a vicious, unprovoked attack on a peer. 650 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,520 After Mr Jameson's return, yes. 651 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,240 "Unprovoked," the records read. 652 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,040 So much so that Rafael was suspended. 653 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,600 Is this correct also, Mrs Lyndon? 654 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:09,400 Yes. 655 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,000 This unprovoked assault only serving as a kind of gym, 656 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,000 if you will, like the violent games he played on his computer. 657 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,320 Your Honour. 658 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:18,920 Please continue, Mr Ramsden. 659 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:20,840 Nothing further. 660 00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,640 How was Rafael as a student? 661 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,440 He was a pleasure to know. 662 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,600 And was the school aware of Rafael's role in the household 663 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,880 as carer to both children and mother? 664 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:45,120 Yes, erm, we were. To an extent. 665 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,520 And is it not so that Rafael used a special school grant, 666 00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,560 intended to clothe him, 667 00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,440 to clothe his half-siblings, the deceased's own biological children? 668 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,320 Yes. This is true, yes. 669 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,320 And this unprovoked attack at the school, 670 00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:05,720 was it something out of character for Ray, would you say? 671 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,080 Yes. 672 00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:09,960 Ray was a... 673 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,880 He was a gentle and sensitive... 674 00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:18,600 I mean he is. He still is. 675 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:21,560 Sorry. 676 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:30,240 Nothing further. 677 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,640 Kerry, don't lose your cool. 678 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,040 Nathan isn't giving evidence. 679 00:54:58,160 --> 00:54:59,200 Nathan? 680 00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:01,880 - Nathan. - Ray... 681 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,200 -Nathan, please. Nathan. -Ray, turn around, now! 682 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,520 -What the hell was that? -He needs me. 683 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,480 No, no, you need you. 684 00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,120 More than ever. 685 00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,600 Okay, so Nathan's defence aren't showing the jury 686 00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,920 Nathan's police photos either. 687 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,200 But that's their trump card. Why? 688 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,160 I don't know. In case it makes him look too disturbed to them? 689 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:10,720 Ray, listen now. 690 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,560 I want you to have a life one day, of your own. 691 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,920 And that life very much hangs on what happens next. 692 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,320 We feel your best chance now 693 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:28,880 is to give evidence. 694 00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,240 I can only advise, mind. 695 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:32,960 It's up to you. 696 00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:42,240 Okay. 697 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:45,280 Okay. 698 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:54,000 Right. Ramsden will come right at you. And he will give you nothing. 699 00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,840 You look him in the eye. You stay calm. 700 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,360 And you think carefully before you answer. 701 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:08,520 Do you remember what you told me about just before it happened? 702 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:12,320 That... 703 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:15,240 I lost control. 704 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:17,280 Good. 705 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,200 Focus on you. 706 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,200 Not on Nathan. 707 00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,120 You are not speaking for him as well. 708 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:28,560 You got that? 709 00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:35,960 Okay. 710 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,040 Okay, let me in, Veronica. 711 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,280 Fucking let me in! 712 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,560 We can talk about it. Come on, just open the door, let me in. 713 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,200 Are you listening up there, Nathan? 714 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,600 Well, you get ready, boy. 715 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,160 Bad, bad rabbit. 716 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,480 Just remember what Kerry said to you. 717 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,520 Rafael, you are being tried for murder. 718 00:58:58,600 --> 00:58:59,600 Do you understand? 719 00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:03,680 Yes. I do. 720 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,200 And did you have an equal part to your brother in what happened? 721 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,320 I had a part in what happened. 722 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:14,120 Yeah. 723 00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,600 You accept that you killed a man? 724 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:22,760 Yes. Yes, I do. 725 00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,440 Were you scared of this man? 726 00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:29,800 Yes. 727 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:36,400 After Scott Jameson was acquitted, did you want revenge? 728 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:39,720 No. 729 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,200 But something needed to be done? 730 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,480 For the record, please, aloud. 731 00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,880 Erm, I don't know. 732 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,760 Was violence ever talked about? 733 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:54,640 No. Never. 734 00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:00,320 Nathaniel was spending his life in his room. 735 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,160 When he came to your room that night, how did he look? 736 01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,720 Mum said... Mum said... Mum said that we have to... 737 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:34,200 We have to lock our doors cos Scott's... 738 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,320 -Mum said that Scott's going to... -Calm down. 739 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,440 He's going to go to the shed and get the axe again. 740 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:39,880 -Calm down. -Okay, yeah? 741 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,000 We have to lock our doors, cos Scott's gone back to the shed, okay? 742 01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,160 -Nathan, calm down. -To finish... 743 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:44,320 To finish the job, once and for all. 744 01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:48,840 Come on. 745 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:55,920 For the record, please. 746 01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:58,560 He said that... 747 01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,120 He said that Scott threatened Mum. 748 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:04,680 Nothing unusual, by all accounts. 749 01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,320 And we can only have your word for that, as she isn't giving evidence either. 750 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:15,760 So, did you not think killing Mr Jameson a bit... 751 01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:18,160 Extreme? 752 01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:19,880 Erm... 753 01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:22,600 I don't know. 754 01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,920 In your room, you and Nathan, did you discuss how to do it? 755 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:47,840 Erm... 756 01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:50,520 We just... 757 01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,880 Went downstairs and got the knives. 758 01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:57,560 Who decided? 759 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:16,560 It wasn't planned. 760 01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,400 Your brother, in a state, by all accounts... 761 01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,040 Who was clearest of mind? 762 01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,000 Your Honour. Leading. 763 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:35,440 So, you went downstairs 764 01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:39,920 to find the deceased curled up, fast asleep. 765 01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,000 Actually, no threat at all. 766 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:04,440 No, not... 767 01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:06,520 Not then. 768 01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,480 No threat at that moment. 769 01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:13,440 But you still stuck the knife in? 770 01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:17,560 Who led the charge? 771 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:21,400 Look at me, Rafael, not your brother. 772 01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:35,560 We just... 773 01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,760 We just went and attacked him. 774 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,800 Did he just wake up? 775 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,320 He had a lot of defensive injuries on his arms. 776 01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,000 I can't remember. 777 01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:58,320 It just... 778 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:00,720 Just happened. 779 01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:05,040 A man is stabbed over 70 times. 780 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,080 His head, near decapitated. 781 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:11,400 And you can't remember? 782 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,320 That this butchery, somehow, just happened? 783 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,520 Did Scott Jameson die in silence? 784 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:23,000 I can't remember. 785 01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:24,560 But you intended to kill him? 786 01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,560 Rafael McCullin, on that night, 787 01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,760 the decision was made for Scott Jameson to die. 788 01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:49,280 I lost control. 789 01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:54,800 When did you lose control? 790 01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:57,560 I lost control 791 01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,880 before and during the attack. 792 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:08,960 Nothing further. 793 01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:33,000 Are you all right? 794 01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,160 Me and my brother, we... 795 01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:37,760 We murdered. 796 01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:45,040 We have only heard from one of the brothers, Rafael. 797 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:49,840 Do not have your sympathies swayed by his age. 798 01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:55,000 Ladies and gentlemen, this boy is a cold-blooded murderer. 799 01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:56,960 Scott Jameson was butchered 800 01:08:57,800 --> 01:08:59,560 as he slept. 801 01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:04,480 Rafael McCullin has admitted, in that very witness box, 802 01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:08,760 his part in this savage, diabolical act. 803 01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:13,800 This boy here had the capacity, 804 01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:15,640 that is clear, 805 01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:19,080 and is as responsible as Nathaniel. 806 01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:25,120 And, together, they planned then mercilessly murdered 807 01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,920 a loving, caring father 808 01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:34,480 of two young children. 809 01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,280 These are the only facts for you to consider here. 810 01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:59,880 My learned friend wields the word "responsibility." 811 01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:06,320 But who took that for Rafael in this room today? 812 01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:12,560 His parents? An adult brother who couldn't give evidence? 813 01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:16,320 The police? This very court? 814 01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:20,680 The services that circled yet ultimately failed 815 01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:22,920 to protect him and his family? 816 01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,040 All are culpable here. 817 01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:31,360 Yet we are not here to problem-solve. 818 01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,320 This arena, 819 01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,600 this Crown system is designed for a win. 820 01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:42,120 Or lose. 821 01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:44,360 Guilt or innocence. 822 01:10:44,440 --> 01:10:46,760 Beyond reasonable doubt. 823 01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:48,800 Binary. 824 01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,560 Like fight or flight. 825 01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:53,920 No room for nuance. 826 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:59,120 No room for an emerging life lived in chaos. 827 01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,520 And what is loss of control, if it isn't that? 828 01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,920 A boy, backed into a corner, 829 01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:16,160 lashes back with that same terrible, furious rage 830 01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:18,000 he so feared himself. 831 01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:10,120 Do you want me to stay in here with you, Ray? 832 01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:28,320 Are you okay, Kerry? 833 01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:35,600 That's an odd question for you to be asking me right now, Rafael McCullin. 834 01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:40,960 Will the accused please stand? 835 01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,400 Members of the jury, in the matter of Nathaniel McCullin, 836 01:13:49,480 --> 01:13:53,160 have you reached a verdict upon which at least nine of you agree? 837 01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:54,800 We have. 838 01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,440 On the charge of murder, how do you find the defendant? 839 01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:00,720 Guilty. 840 01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:06,600 In the matter of Rafael McCullin, have you reached a verdict 841 01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:08,760 upon which at least nine of you agree? 842 01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:11,080 We have. 843 01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:15,120 On the charge of murder, how do you find the defendant? 844 01:14:16,440 --> 01:14:17,440 Not guilty. 845 01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:24,320 On the charge of manslaughter by loss of control, 846 01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:25,800 how do you find the defendant? 847 01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:28,000 Guilty. 848 01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:45,680 All rise. 849 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:54,200 Nathan. 850 01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:55,440 Nathan! 851 01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:58,160 Please. 852 01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:04,680 Mum. 853 01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:10,320 Mum, how's... How's Christie and Serena? No one will tell me. 854 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,920 They're not with me any more. They took my babies away, Ray. 855 01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:25,560 Mum, I'm so sorry. 856 01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:28,240 I'm sorry, I did it to protect you and Nathan, 857 01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,920 I did it to keep you and Nathan safe. Okay? 858 01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:35,040 Okay? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. 859 01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,840 Not much good if we're not all together, Ray. 860 01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:47,960 Mum, I'm sorry... 861 01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:23,600 That's good. Now stand up tall, tall, tall, tall. 862 01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:38,760 Ah, cool work, my friend. 863 01:18:41,480 --> 01:18:45,520 It's amazing to think we're there, in the middle of all of that. 864 01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:49,560 It's not our solar system. 865 01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:51,240 Oh. 866 01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:54,080 Erm, there's a theory 867 01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:57,320 that there's all these other universes out there. 868 01:18:57,400 --> 01:18:58,680 Not just this one. 869 01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:02,080 And in every one, 870 01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:04,000 there's us. 871 01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:09,120 Doing all the other things we could have done. 872 01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:15,240 It's good. 873 01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:17,840 It's a good thing, Ray. 874 01:19:48,440 --> 01:19:50,160 Funny little git, ain't you? 875 01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:07,600 It won't bite. 876 01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:34,400 When are you back to school? 877 01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:38,520 Tomorrow. 878 01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:44,840 You've got a good brain in that head, so don't waste it. 879 01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:52,200 No more fighting, yeah? 880 01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:57,200 No more fucking fighting. 881 01:21:18,440 --> 01:21:19,600 Sit here, if you like. 882 01:21:56,480 --> 01:21:57,920 Stop! Stop! 883 01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:02,320 No! No! No! 884 01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:09,560 Stop! Stop! Stop! 885 01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:11,000 No! 886 01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:13,320 Please! Please! 887 01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:15,440 -Ray? Okay, it's okay. Ray? -Okay. 888 01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,000 Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray. 889 01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:20,880 Breathe, breathe. Hey, it's okay. 890 01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:22,400 -No! No! -Ray, Ray. 891 01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:24,680 -No! No! -It's okay, it's okay, it's okay. 892 01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:26,840 - No! - It's okay, it's okay. 893 01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:29,000 Ray! Ray! Ray! 894 01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:32,040 You are here. You are here. You're in this body. 895 01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:34,360 Okay, you're in this room. 896 01:22:34,440 --> 01:22:36,040 In this room! Yeah? 897 01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:37,400 Yeah? 898 01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:41,200 You're safe. Yeah? 899 01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:07,360 How are you doing? 900 01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:09,360 You okay? 901 01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:15,240 Okay, thank you. 902 01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:18,040 Good. 903 01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:35,640 Can I get a stamp, please? 904 01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:41,280 Thank you. 905 01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:04,360 Ooh! 906 01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:08,280 All right. 907 01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:14,240 Pow! 908 01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:18,280 I don't want to be the person that did what I did. 909 01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:23,640 He's in another universe, mate. 910 01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:26,280 Yeah? 911 01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:29,640 Yeah. 912 01:24:33,440 --> 01:24:35,480 - You all right here a sec? - Yeah. 913 01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:42,000 Put it down! Put it down! 914 01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:44,080 Calm down. We can talk about it. 915 01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:46,920 - Oi, stop that! Stop that! - Use the tie. 916 01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:51,000 Calm down. Calm yourself down. 917 01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:53,560 Calm yourself down and think about what you're doing. 918 01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:55,800 Calm down! 919 01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:58,520 Calm down! 920 01:24:59,960 --> 01:25:01,600 - Get her under control! - Come on! 921 01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:02,920 Quiet! Quiet! 922 01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:07,160 In 1995, the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child stated that 923 01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:11,400 this is incompatible with the UK's obligations on children's rights.