1 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,200 [Dickens] The "What if?" that's a... that's a question every day. 2 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,000 What if I didn't go in there? What if I didn't kill him? 3 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:25,360 What if I never fired a shot? 4 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:28,680 [gunshot] 5 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,840 You beat yourself up with these questions. 6 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:38,320 That's pretty much all your life is in here, is... self-reflection and, uh... 7 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,360 thinking about the things that go on, 8 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,240 the things that didn't go on, and the things that you wish could go on. 9 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,720 My name is Justin Wiley Dickens. 10 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,080 I was convicted of capital murder and a robbery/homicide. 11 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,000 And I received the death penalty. 12 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,440 [man 1] And I walked up, I fired one shot. 13 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,840 And as I got closer, I fired one more shot. 14 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,720 [man 2] She was shot through the cheek and it stopped in her jaw. 15 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:46,240 [man 3] I drove him around behind a desk and I stabbed him approximately 25 times. 16 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,360 [man 4] I couldn't believe it. 17 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,480 I just thought I can't believe I just killed somebody. 18 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,720 [man 5] I don't feel bad about it. [laughs] [man 6] I started stabbing him, stabbing the guy on the couch. 19 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,000 [Dickens] I was born in Amarillo, Texas, July 1976. 20 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,520 I was born two months premature because my mom was using cocaine. 21 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,800 I mean, it was an off-and-on struggle, 22 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,000 but my parents kind of held it together until I was 13. 23 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,280 Then they completely split up for good. 24 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:22,920 And then, uh... 25 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,720 you know, it was just rocky. 26 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,560 I'd run the streets with my mom, you know. 27 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:34,760 She was... She was just a homeless drug addict 28 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,600 who, you know, would just commit petty thefts at stores, 29 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,720 and we'd do drugs together and go to jail together 30 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,360 and bond out and just keep repeating and repeating and repeating. 31 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,280 Dallas Moore was a local tattoo artist 32 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:01,520 and he was a... real charming character, fast-talker, slick, 33 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,840 got everybody under his wing and as close to him as he could. 34 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,800 Being lost as a kid and looking for a father figure, 35 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,400 I was just drawn to him and I was just kind of brainwashed by him. 36 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:20,759 Martha was Dallas Moore's fiancée. 37 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:25,360 If they didn't have such a severe drug habit, 38 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,600 they would've been really cool friends. 39 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,840 I met Dallas and Martha when I was about 15 years old. 40 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,480 After me and my friend stole a bunch of weed, 41 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,600 I went to Dallas Moore's house to see if he wanted to buy it. 42 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,800 They was having a big cocaine party. 43 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,080 Everybody shooting the cocaine. 44 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,400 I told him I didn't want to try any because my mom was a drug addict, 45 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,880 and I seen what needles do to people. 46 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,520 But he said it was just a mental thing, it wasn't a physical thing, 47 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,640 so he eventually got me to snort some cocaine. 48 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,000 And about a day or two after that, 49 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,120 of, you know, around the clock hanging out and drinking, 50 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,280 he finally broke me down to try shooting the cocaine. 51 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,080 And once I shot the cocaine, we never snorted it again. 52 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,000 I was just kind of lost. 53 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,960 When I was 17, we was partying for about a week straight. 54 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,560 And Dallas passed out. 55 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,680 He was asleep in the bed 56 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,960 and Martha went into his pocket and took an ounce of cocaine. 57 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,520 And she alone used a bunch of it. 58 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,160 And before the sun came up, she was in a panic. 59 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,840 And asked me and my fall partner, Craig Pennell, to drive her around 60 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,840 to try to sell some to get the money to pay Dallas before he woke up. 61 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,400 When you're a drug addict, alls you can think about is drugs. 62 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:52,160 The repercussions of whatever it is are out of sight. 63 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:53,240 You don't think about that. 64 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:57,920 We couldn't sell any of it. 65 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,160 And all three of us ended up doing the rest of the cocaine. 66 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,240 [bell ringing] 67 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,160 And on the last stop we made before we dropped Martha off, 68 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,520 we heard Dallas Moore was after us with a pistol. 69 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,200 When Dallas caught up with me, it was about 2:00 in the morning. 70 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,640 I was asleep on Craig's couch. 71 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,880 I woke up with a knife to my throat. 72 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,480 A local drug addict named Eddie Ramos was with him. 73 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,440 And they were talking about how they were gonna kill me. 74 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,640 Craig came in and then Dallas started beating us up 75 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,680 and slapping us around with the pistol. 76 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:05,040 And then he told us to follow him back over to his house. 77 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,560 So, we went out there and, uh... 78 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,640 he pretty much blamed it all on me. 79 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,120 He told me that I was to take Martha to the Amarillo Blvd. 80 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,640 and pimp her out while she turns tricks to raise the money. 81 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:29,760 But when I agreed to it... 82 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,280 he busted my nose and almost knocked me out. 83 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,680 Saying, "Oh, you would allow Martha to go pimp herself?" And he told me I was gonna get his money. 84 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,680 And he pointed to a ski mask that he had hanging on the wall. 85 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,720 And when gets in a jam, he handles his business with the ski mask, 86 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,160 and he said, "I expect you to do the same thing, too. 87 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,280 I don't care what you do. 88 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:57,920 You're just gonna get me my money." 89 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,800 Me and Craig took off in Craig's truck. 90 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,680 The only place I knew where to get a gun was my great-grandfather's house, 91 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:17,960 way out in the country. 92 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,040 So, we drive back into town, and I'm like, "Pull over here, pull over here," 93 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,720 you know, just trying to find something that we could do. 94 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,680 And he's like, "No, I know a place over by my grandparents' house." 95 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:36,720 So we drive across Amarillo. 96 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,640 We get to the Mockingbird Pawn and Jewelry store. 97 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,200 Looking back on it now, 98 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,160 there's no predicting that was gonna happen, 99 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,080 but the day felt wrong. The day felt wrong. 100 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:04,960 [gun clicks] 101 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,360 The reason why I went through with it: 102 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,840 because my fear of Dallas overrode 103 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,320 my fear of the repercussions of what the law would do. 104 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,280 I walked up to the door, and the door had a buzzer lock on it. 105 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:34,320 [buzzing] 106 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,600 So, they seen me in there and they buzzed me in. 107 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,240 I said I was getting married and I'd like to try on a ring. 108 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,480 And, uh, they turned their back on me. When they turned their back on me... 109 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,840 I pulled the gun out and cocked it. 110 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,360 And I said, "Get down on the ground. I ain't shitting you, I'll kill you." 111 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,600 Mr. Jacobs laid where I couldn't see him. 112 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:14,160 And Mr. Carter laid between the two counters with his head facing me 113 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,960 just, like, five feet away. 114 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,240 I froze up. 115 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:24,960 I mean, I was totally out of my element. 116 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:32,000 I should've just said, "Put your hands up and give me some money 117 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,760 and let me out," but hindsight's 20/20. 118 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,760 Then out of nowhere, Mr. Carter came up with a shoulder tackle... 119 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,200 and picked me up off my feet. 120 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,960 It was just a lightning-strike tackle. 121 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:53,480 He never said nothing the whole time. 122 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,000 -He slammed me into the wall. -[thudding] 123 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,480 And I just shrugged up and fired a shot... 124 00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:05,600 -[gunshot] -...that hit him in the torso. 125 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,720 Then I slid down the wall with my pistol raised straight in the air like that. 126 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:13,600 He grabbed the barrel of the gun while he was leaning over me 127 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,640 and he jerked the gun straight up, and the bullet fired through his hand 128 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,080 and hit him in the forehead. 129 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,160 [gunshot] 130 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,720 And I was like, "Oh, no." 131 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,640 Mr. Jacobs, he ran out the side door. 132 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:41,920 And I tried to get out out the front door. 133 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,120 So I shot the last two shots into the lock... 134 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,160 and I missed it. 135 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,760 I started ramming it with my head, kicking it... 136 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,080 but I couldn't get out. 137 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:57,680 So I ran out the back door. 138 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,880 And I looked to the left, and Craig was driving away without me. 139 00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:05,560 He looked right at me, and we made eye contact, 140 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:06,680 and he just kept on going. 141 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,880 I thought, "Nah," you know, "Story of my life." 142 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:14,200 So I took off running. 143 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:16,640 I just thought... 144 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,200 I can't believe I just killed somebody. 145 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,880 That thought was just on a loop over and over and over on my mind. 146 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,760 There wasn't no "Am I gonna get away with this?" 147 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,160 Nothing. I just... I was stunned. 148 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,160 [camera shutter clicking] 149 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:00,520 [tape recorder clicks] 150 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,640 [Campos] For the record, Justin, would you identify yourself? 151 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,400 I'm Sergeant Campos. This is Sergeant Montano. 152 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:07,880 What's your name, full name? 153 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,640 [Dickens] Justin Wiley Dickens. 154 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:10,760 [Campos] Okay. 155 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,080 [Dickens] They said, "Sir, we know what happened. 156 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,880 Your fall partner, Craig Pennell, is over here. 157 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:19,480 He's done told us everything." 158 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,080 I just hung my head and started crying. 159 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,200 I said, "I'm sorry. I didn't mean to kill nobody. 160 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,920 I didn't mean to kill nobody," and I left it at that. 161 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,360 [Campos] Could you start from the beginning, if it was planned? 162 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,800 -Will you tell us? -[Dickens] It wasn't planned. 163 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,440 I didn't know there was a death penalty, 164 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,760 but I knew I was... in deep trouble. 165 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,000 [train bell ringing] 166 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,960 [birds chirping] 167 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,280 [Farren] The robbery and murder at the Mockingbird Street Jewelry 168 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,920 occurred March 12th, 1994. 169 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,760 It was the first major case I tried after becoming district attorney. 170 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,040 Justin Wiley Dickens was a volatile individual. 171 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,400 I think he suffered from sort of a Napoleonic complex. 172 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,760 He realized he wasn't a large fellow, 173 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:54,280 and he compensated for that by strutting and trying to demonstrate 174 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,160 that he was a big, bad, dangerous guy. 175 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,560 As far as his... rationalization, 176 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,920 justification for committing the robbery, 177 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,600 being that he's afraid of Dallas Moore, 178 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,720 I think is true of most falsehoods, most lies-- 179 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,360 you mix in some truth with the lie, and it makes it more believable. 180 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:27,040 I think it was more of a humiliation than any serious beating he took. 181 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,920 I think he was beside himself 182 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,520 when he was humiliated in front of other people who knew him 183 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,520 because, again, his driving desire was to convince everybody that... 184 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,560 "I may not be very big, physically, but I'm a dangerous guy. 185 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,240 You don't want to mess with me." 186 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,920 I believe, and I think the evidence demonstrated, 187 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,960 that's exactly what happened in the Mockingbird Street Jewelry robbery. 188 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,920 Francis Allen Carter tried to approach him 189 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,600 and convince him to abandon this robbery attempt. 190 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,760 "Put down the gun. Don't do this. You're gonna ruin your life. 191 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:14,999 Let me talk to you. Let's talk about this. You don't want to do this." 192 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,000 Dickens responded, as he always did, violently, 193 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,520 and shot and killed Francis Allen Carter. 194 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:25,159 -[gunshot] -[thuds] 195 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,360 Part of Dickens' defense was that... 196 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,080 Francis Allen Carter provoked his use of the weapon. 197 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,560 And that's one of the questions the jury has to answer-- 198 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,840 whether or not the victim provoked the acts of the defendant. 199 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,880 If the answer to that is "yes," 200 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,440 then, by law, the death penalty's not a possibility. 201 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,880 There's no way that kind of struggle was occurring while he was being shot. 202 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:04,320 It would be impossible for what he describes to have occurred 203 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,440 and not have blood all over him. 204 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:15,160 The forensic evidence is consistent with him being a sufficient distance away 205 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,480 from Francis Allen Carter while those rounds are being fired. 206 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,240 I don't think Jacobs saw a struggle. 207 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,800 I think he just made the assumption that that was going to happen. 208 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,520 Once he came up off the floor, 209 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,200 there was only one thing on his mind, and that was fleeing out the door. 210 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,320 I think that's what caused Dickens to panic and start pulling the trigger, 211 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,040 not a bull rush from Francis Allen Carter. 212 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,240 Justin Wiley Dickens deserved the sentence he received from the jury. 213 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,120 He deserved the death penalty because of the kind of person he was 214 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,840 and because of what he did, but also because of the victim 215 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,760 that he chose to take from all us. 216 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,680 Francis Allen Carter, he was absolutely one of the most exemplary human beings 217 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,240 I have ever heard about, and Dickens robbed all of us of that. 218 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,840 I'm Barbalee Blair. 219 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,600 I taught with Allen from 1978 until his death in 1994. 220 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,280 And I'm Kim Leal, 221 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:45,320 and I was in Mr. Carter's junior English class. 222 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:54,520 And I've since moved on to teach English in the very same classroom 223 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,680 that I took junior English with Mr. Carter. 224 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,920 [Blair] Allen was a complex, 225 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,000 dynamic, interesting, conflicting, 226 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,240 confusing man who loved kids. 227 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,600 [Leal] He looks so young. 228 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,200 -He was. -He was. 229 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,520 Well, technically, he was 50, but he sure didn't act 50. 230 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,120 [Blair] The kids he helped the most 231 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,760 were the kids who would be those who slipped between the cracks. 232 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,120 There were no cracks for Allen. 233 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,240 The ones who might not make it 234 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,880 were going to make it because of Allen Carter. 235 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,120 [Leal] He recognized the underdog, always. 236 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,200 [Blair] He simply would not let a child fail. 237 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,440 [birds chirping] 238 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,760 [Blair] That night when we first heard it, 239 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,520 nobody had a clue that there had been a robbery 240 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,840 or that he had been shot. 241 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,800 We just knew he had died. 242 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,840 But the next day at school, details began to come out. 243 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,480 And that's when I remember us all, all the teachers in the teachers' lounge, 244 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,680 talking about how would Allen have reacted. 245 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,040 What would Allen have done in an armed robbery? 246 00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,320 What would you do? What would I do? 247 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,880 None of us could see Allen confronting somebody with a gun physically. 248 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,480 Strong, dynamic, all those things are true, 249 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,960 but I can't imagine Allen rushing a gunman. 250 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,880 Just not his character. It's not his nature. 251 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,800 It's not the way he would behave. But I can imagine him talking 252 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:45,240 with every bit of force and vigor and push that he could 253 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:51,160 to try to get this kid, whoever he was, to see what he was doing. 254 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,280 That this is not acceptable, this is not okay. 255 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:02,080 And Allen would have expected that the child would comply, 256 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,160 understand, see that, 257 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,320 but, of course, that's not the way it happened. 258 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:45,880 My name is Rus Bailey. 259 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,360 I was the lead attorney for the trial of Justin Wiley Dickens. 260 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,480 Justin, to me, seemed to be a fairly decent young man. 261 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,880 I'm not gonna say he was wonderful based upon what had happened at this point, 262 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,400 but, you know, I liked him. 263 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,960 -[waitress] How are you? -[Bailey] Fine, thank you. 264 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,120 -Good. -Thank you very much. 265 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,960 [Bailey] Any time you have a capital murder trial, 266 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,400 chances are, in all likelihood, they're gonna ask for the death penalty. 267 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,360 That's the only reason to file for a capital murder charge. 268 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,440 The first thing we did was plead guilty to involuntary manslaughter, 269 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,600 which is a lesser included offense as part of the charges against Justin. 270 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:35,760 Now, the issue here is whether or not Justin really intended to kill Mr. Carter 271 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,400 because he felt like it or even because he wanted to. 272 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,080 I mean, Mr. Farren read the same reports I did. 273 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,680 And realistically, the only way this could have taken place is this way. 274 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,080 When Justin pulled the gun, 275 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,560 there was a counter between Justin and the two individuals 276 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,840 that were in that store at that point in time. 277 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,080 He did tell both parties to get down. 278 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,320 And with that point, he realized he was making a very foolish mistake. 279 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,720 And I think as a result of him turning his back on Mr. Carter, 280 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,920 Mr. Carter came across that counter. 281 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,120 And in the course of events was shot when they were fighting for that gun. 282 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,320 There was an eye-witness-- Mr. Jacobs. 283 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:32,760 But he wouldn't sign his statement unless he got approval from Mr. Farren. 284 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,720 I'm not too sure why he needed Mr. Farren's approval, 285 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,080 because I knew if... I knew if I gave a statement to somebody, 286 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,720 I would live with that statement because it's true. 287 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,440 [Farren on recording] The forensic evidence is consistent 288 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,120 with him being a sufficient distance away 289 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,720 from Francis Allen Carter while those rounds are being fired. 290 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,600 [Bailey] I just can't fathom that they actually accepted that. 291 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,640 I would have assumed that the police department 292 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,400 would have at least what they call string or strung the room 293 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,760 to determine where the bullets went and where they came from. 294 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,600 This would have proven or shown, possibly, 295 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,160 about the fight between Justin Dickens and Mr. Carter. 296 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,120 But they never strung it. 297 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,320 They didn't think it was relevant. 298 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,480 It could have made a big difference for us. Then again, the police department doesn't work for the defense, 299 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,720 they work for the State of Texas. 300 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:26,800 [chuckles] 301 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,720 Justin, to me, seemed to be a very young man 302 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,800 that was just scared to death. 303 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,120 What we were able to ascertain is that Dallas Moore had threatened him 304 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,040 to get him some money back for something that he, Justin, 305 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,520 and Mr. Moore's wife had supposedly done. 306 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,520 If Dallas Moore had taken the stand, 307 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,920 then it may have come out that there were a lot more things going on 308 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,080 than the State was willing to acknowledge to that jury. 309 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,920 And if we could have got his wife there separately from Dallas, 310 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,800 his wife could have testified as to what actually happened between him and Justin. 311 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,000 But it was amazing. 312 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,200 All of a sudden, Mr. Moore and a lot of other witnesses we wanted were gone. 313 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,320 Now, I don't know what happened, 314 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:24,120 how it got there to that point, but our investigator could not find him anywhere. 315 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,680 And I'm not saying the state did anything wrong. 316 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,240 It's just the fact Dallas was covering his own. 317 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,040 Back side, so to speak. [chuckles] 318 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,800 So, yeah, I can understand him taking off based on that. 319 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,160 But he sure would have helped us. 320 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,920 [birds chirping] 321 00:26:56,120 --> 00:27:00,320 [Chante] I met Justin two years before the incident in seventh grade. 322 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,440 We were in a summer school class together at Sam Houston Summer School. 323 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,040 Just gonna feed him. Bates! You want to eat, babe? 324 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,000 No leftovers in this house. 325 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,840 Justin, he was a little wild country boy talking about hog hunting 326 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,800 and, you know, bow and arrows. 327 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,320 He was pretty wild for a kid. 328 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,040 Okay, guys, come on. 329 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,960 Share and be nice. 330 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,480 My father knew his mother from drugs. 331 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,440 Be nice. 332 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,640 So I ended up running into Justin at my dad's house. 333 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,360 At that moment, I think I realized that my friends were doing 334 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,000 a little more than smoking a little weed 335 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,160 and having a couple of shots here and there at a party. 336 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,160 My father, he's really charismatic. 337 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,560 I mean, people are drawn to him. 338 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,040 I would say that he's comparable to a much more friendly Charles Manson. 339 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,240 He, um... He just can draw the people in. 340 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:21,160 He has a way of making people do what he wants them to do. 341 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,760 He was in and out of prison my whole life. 342 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:35,360 Each time he got out of prison, instead of getting better, he got worse. 343 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,080 It just seemed like the further it went, it was like a downward spiral, 344 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,120 you know, more and more charges until it led to this point, 345 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,640 you know, 25 years later. 346 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,320 The last eight months, he's been a fugitive 347 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,240 for actually tying up an 83-year-old woman and hurting her in her home. 348 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,520 A home invasion. 349 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,480 [sniffles] Uh... 350 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,520 something that you wouldn't think that your father would do, but... 351 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,440 [Moore] Well, my Dad wanted Fort Worth. 352 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,560 My mom wouldn't let him name me Fort Worth, so I ended up with Dallas. 353 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,720 My name came up, like, 58 times in this trial, so everybody's wanting to talk to me. 354 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,400 I'm like the star of the show. 355 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,800 I don't lie. Most people will tell you I don't lie. 356 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,200 I shoot straight from the hip. 357 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,720 [Moore] My daughter introduced me to Justin. Did she tell you that? 358 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,800 Man, that little shit. 359 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,400 He caused so much trauma in my life. 360 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,160 My wife liked him. 361 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,880 They stole over fucking an ounce from me. 362 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,520 Did he tell you that? 363 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,400 I was asleep. Took it all from me. 364 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,960 I put my gun to the kid's head and I said, "We're going to Martha's 365 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,960 and you guys are gonna apologize for letting her leave my house, 366 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,280 you know, and robbing me. 367 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,120 You're supposed to have been my friends. 368 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,320 [Dickens on recording] He pretty much blamed it all on me. 369 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,040 He pointed to a ski mask that he had hanging on the wall. 370 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,880 And he said, "I don't care what you do. You're just gonna get me my money." 371 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:01,960 Whoo, that's a-- I put that on the Bible, I swear to God. 372 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,040 Man, that is a fictitious lie. That's a fictitious lie. 373 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,960 I never said boom, boom, boom, you're gonna go and do this and do that, 374 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,600 go get my money, and sent him on a robbery. 375 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:14,520 That is BS. 376 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,360 I did not want no involvement in his bullshit 377 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,600 and had no idea that he would fucking goddamn do that. 378 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,720 I let him off. 379 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,400 He didn't really rob me, my wife robbed me. 380 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,920 So I said, "I want you to take my wife to the motel and watch her. 381 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,080 Make sure no trick stays with her more than 15 minutes. 382 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,440 Let her earn my fucking money. She's the one who took my shit. 383 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,480 Will you do that for me?" 384 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,160 He goes, "Yeah, I'll pimp that bitch." 385 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,200 When he said that, I hit him. 386 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,560 Look at his mugshots. 387 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,920 When he got to, I wouldn't let him get up. 388 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,720 I kick-stomped his ass straight out of my house 389 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,360 and I told him, "Don't you ever come back to my house. 390 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:07,680 You can't pay me, you can't buy nothing, you can't do nothing, you can't apologize. 391 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,760 I don't want your piece-of-shit ass in my house ever again." 392 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:12,960 That's what I told him. 393 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,200 I'm not gonna be a made out as some Charles Manson. 394 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:17,360 You know what I mean? 395 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,560 I don't wanna be no involvement of that man getting murdered 396 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,520 because I didn't have no involvement in it. 397 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,040 He didn't owe me nothing. 398 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,800 His debt was paid in full when I punched him out. 399 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,720 I think he should get a break, but not a break at my expense to sit there 400 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,720 and say, "I told him and ordered him to go do that," dude. 401 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,280 I would tell you if I had said that, but, no, no. 402 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,760 If he went to rob then, he went to rob that to try to fucking impress my wife. 403 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,720 [crickets chirping] 404 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,200 Well, my name is Martha Cummins-Bell now. 405 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,760 I got clean from all drugs in '97. 406 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,280 I'm a mom. I have seven kids. 407 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,840 -Four sandwiches and two salads. -Okay, thank you. 408 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,920 [Cummins-Bell] I work at an agency 409 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,360 that specializes in treating people with borderline personality disorder. 410 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,000 Almost always suicidal or self-harming. 411 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,720 So, I can relate to that. 412 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,560 I cut ties with Dallas a long time ago. 413 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,200 So I'm not afraid of him anymore. 414 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,360 [Cummins-Bell] He's just nervous. 415 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:15,480 [Cummins-Bell chuckles] 416 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:17,559 [Chante] Oh, God! [laughs] 417 00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:20,039 [Cummins-Bell] I remember when I met Justin. 418 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,120 I lived in an apartment with Dallas. 419 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,960 -This is cute. -That one-- 420 00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:30,599 [Chante] There's Justin. 421 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,840 [Cummins-Bell] First of all, I thought he was about 12. 422 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,520 [Chante] There he is right there, Martha. 423 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,840 [Cummins-Bell] And he was, like, a little street kid. 424 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,680 The little short one is Justin. 425 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,559 There was a real innocence about Justin. 426 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,919 [Chante] Oh, there's Dallas. 427 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,080 [Cummins-Bell] Dallas was ten years older than me 428 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:50,559 and I met him after he had done, I think... 429 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,320 close to ten years in a Missouri state penitentiary. 430 00:34:56,159 --> 00:35:00,479 I think we were all kind of sucked into that excitement 431 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,280 and, um... the drug use. 432 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,360 And Dallas was older than all of us and had already been to prison 433 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,400 and was just so cool. 434 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,400 -[Chante] Ben with a gun in Dad's mouth. -[Cummins-Bell] Kenny! 435 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,240 -[Cummins-Bell] Remember him? -[kid] Is that real? 436 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,800 [Chante] Yes, that's a real gun! 437 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,520 -[kid] Does it have bullets in it? -[Chante] I'm sure it doesn't. There were reasons to be afraid of Dallas. 438 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,840 Dallas passed out, and Martha went into his pocket 439 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,000 and took an ounce of cocaine. 440 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:44,720 I think I had some resentments about him having the cocaine in his pocket. 441 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,040 And, um... 442 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,640 I wanted it in my pocket. 443 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,400 So, one night, 444 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,720 I gave him a lot of Valium... 445 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:05,680 and put him to sleep and took the cocaine out of his pocket. 446 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,880 Craig and Justin and I started doing the cocaine, 447 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,360 and we got to a point in the bag where there was no return. 448 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,280 And I knew... 449 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,960 I knew that we were all fucked, basically. 450 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,440 I know that Dallas expected to be reimbursed. 451 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,760 And... 452 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,080 that we were all pretty terrified. 453 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,920 I don't know why it all became Justin's responsibility. 454 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:52,400 There was a ski mask nailed onto the wall in our... in our trailer, 455 00:36:53,360 --> 00:37:00,000 and Dallas pointed at the ski mask and said, "That's how I handle my debts." 456 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:11,080 I think that Justin did what he thought he had to do. 457 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,640 And I don't think that he meant to ever hurt anybody. 458 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:15,920 I think he just meant to pay Dallas back. 459 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,800 And I know a man lost his life. 460 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,840 Right? I mean, that's the other side of this, is that somebody died. 461 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,520 [breathes heavily] But... [exhales] 462 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,120 Um, it also took Justin's life. 463 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,400 Justin pulled the trigger. 464 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,800 Craig drove the car. 465 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,280 I stole the dope. 466 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,280 And if I had been a guy and I hadn't have been married to Dallas, 467 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,520 I probably would have been in the car, too. 468 00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:58,160 I just don't know how someone can get put on death row for something like this. 469 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,640 [Farren] Dickens' defense was that 470 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:12,080 Francis Allen Carter provoked his use of the weapon. 471 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,080 And if the answer to that is yes, 472 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,520 then, by law, the death penalty is not a possibility. 473 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,880 [Bailey] There was an eye-witness, Mr. Jacobs, 474 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,040 but he wouldn't sign his statement unless he got approval from Mr. Farren. 475 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,040 [Jacobs] Allen, of course, was a teacher. 476 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,800 And as a side venture 477 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,560 he would buy and sell jewelry. 478 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,800 Yeah, he was a good personal friend. 479 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,280 Allen and I were visiting together... 480 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,600 and a customer came to the front door. 481 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:31,120 It was electronically protected as far as in and out is concerned. 482 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,040 So we buzzed him and let him visit around. 483 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,200 When we were off doing our business, um... 484 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,880 he just pulled a gun on us and said, 485 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,200 "Okay, this is a robbery. 486 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,880 Get down on the floor." 487 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,560 And so, that's what we did. 488 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,960 We laid down on the floor and, um... 489 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,280 and he said, "Spread out," for whatever reason. 490 00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:04,320 At some point, and I still don't know why, 491 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,320 Allen decided it was time for him to take action. 492 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,920 And he came up off the floor across the jewelry counter... 493 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:16,480 and engaged the kid 494 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:24,360 and was trying to take the gun from him when it went off. 495 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:25,800 [gunshot] That was the first shot. 496 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,280 Then the second one was when he was pushing-- 497 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,440 trying to push the gun away, I think, and it came up 498 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,320 through the webbing in his finger and hit him in the head as well. 499 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:37,760 [gunshot] 500 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,960 The one that caught Allen the second time was the one that I'm sure killed him. 501 00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:51,920 And that's when I went out the back door. 502 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,560 [Farren] I don't think Jacobs saw a struggle. 503 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,640 I think he just made the assumption that that was going to happen. 504 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,440 The forensic evidence is consistent 505 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,800 with Dickens being a sufficient distance away 506 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,360 from Francis Allen Carter while those rounds are being fired. 507 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,560 Farren, he's good at his job. No problem about that part of it at all, 508 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,120 but I don't understand him trying to put words into the circumstances 509 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,560 that I was seeing. 510 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,800 When I told him that Allen was trying to get the gun 511 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:36,200 when the shots went off, so how can you do that from afar off 512 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,440 if you aren't close enough to grab the gun? 513 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,240 [chattering] 514 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,920 [birds chirping] 515 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:08,880 [Carter-Boyd] Grief never goes away. 516 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:10,920 It changes. 517 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:18,880 You feel sadness, you feel anger, confusion, frustration. 518 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,840 You feel all alone in the world, but it never goes away. 519 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,600 Your heart aches for that person all the time. 520 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,880 My name is Christi Carter, and I am the daughter... 521 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,880 the very proud daughter of Allen Carter. 522 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,720 [train bell ringing] 523 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,520 Daddy always came to Amarillo on Saturdays to do his jewelry business. 524 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,160 This particular Saturday, 525 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:57,920 I just had a bad feeling, and I didn't want him to come to Amarillo. 526 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,680 And at 4:30 that afternoon, he called me. 527 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,080 I can still hear his voice. 528 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:10,320 It was, you know, "I love you, baby girl. I'll call you when I get home." 529 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,000 And that was it. 530 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,640 I was watching the five o'clock news 531 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,640 when they had breaking news 532 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:29,560 that there had been a shooting at Mockingbird Pawn and Jewelry. 533 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:33,240 And I knew immediately. 534 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,360 I knew immediately that something had happened to Daddy. 535 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,920 So I just went to the hospital, and he was still alive. 536 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,080 And he had just passed away when Mama got to Amarillo. 537 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:55,880 But I had to tell her. 538 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,920 The only reason that Daddy would go for the gun 539 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:12,640 is because he felt that no amount of talking could persuade Dickens 540 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,800 to not do this or put down the gun. 541 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,440 But that was also Daddy. 542 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,760 Daddy got the Soldier's Medal in Vietnam for saving three other soldiers' life. 543 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,440 That's right under the Navy Cross. 544 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,760 That's what Daddy did. 545 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,040 He tried to find a solution. 546 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,680 He didn't know any different, he didn't do any different. 547 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,600 And so, to me, if he went for the gun, that's exactly what he was doing. 548 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,440 You know, it was a young man struggling and he was going to help him. 549 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,920 If I went to see Dickens, I think that... 550 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,720 he really wouldn't care that I was there. 551 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:12,200 But I just need him to see that life did go on for us. 552 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,680 And, yes, it's been hard, and, yes, it's been painful. 553 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:24,480 To be 20 years old and lose your father and to see Mama alone... 554 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,680 missing him and me missing him... 555 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,880 but he didn't take it all away. 556 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,600 And I need him to know that I have forgiven him for what he did. 557 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,360 That doesn't mean I like him. 558 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,240 That doesn't mean I wanna be his pen pal. 559 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,240 But for me to go on, I had to forgive him. 560 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,520 But I don't think he would care. 561 00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:00,600 The one thing that will always stick out in my mind about Dickens 562 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,840 is the very last question of the trial. 563 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,600 And James asked him, 564 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:15,160 "Now that you have met Mr. Carter's wife and daughter 565 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:17,440 and mother and brothers and sisters, 566 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,200 how do you feel about what you did?" 567 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,680 And Dickens looked at us and then looked at James Farren, and said, "You know, Mr. Farren, I'm really, really sorry this happened to me." 568 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,960 [Dickens] I'm sorry. I'm so sorry I said that. 569 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,920 I'm sorry. 570 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:41,320 I was... 571 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,120 I was a jackass. 572 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:46,280 I mean... 573 00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:53,920 what I said was probably devastatingly cruel, but... 574 00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:00,160 I can't even make an excuse for that. 575 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,400 [Moore on recording] He caused so much trauma in my life. 576 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:18,600 Man, that little shit. 577 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,560 I never said boom, boom, boom, you're gonna go do this and do that, 578 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,800 go get my money, and sent him on robbery. 579 00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:29,800 I wasn't gonna be made out as some Charles Manson. 580 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,000 You know what I mean? 581 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,560 I don't wanna be no involvement of that man getting murdered 582 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,760 because I didn't have no involvement in it. 583 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:45,600 I really met the wrong person in a very pivotal point in my... 584 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,480 juvenile days, and, uh... 585 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,200 [stutters] It created disaster and tragedy. 586 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,440 I was Dallas' little protégé. 587 00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:58,640 I idolized him. 588 00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:01,600 I didn't think he was dangerous like that. 589 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,480 I thought he was a big kid until the mask kinda came off and, you know, it was directed at me. 590 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:09,880 [Cummins-Bell on recording] I stole the dope. 591 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,680 I don't know why it all became Justin's responsibility. 592 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,680 Dallas pointed at the ski mask and said, "That's how I handle my debts." 593 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,040 And if I had been a guy and I hadn't been married to Dallas, 594 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,400 I probably would have been in the car, too. 595 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,040 It's a small blessing. 596 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,320 All I've ever asked for is just to let it be heard, you know. 597 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,480 I bear my own cross and I live with what I done, and... 598 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,400 you know, it ain't... 599 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,120 it don't never change, it don't never get no easier. 600 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,400 That's all I ever wanted was somebody to speak truthfully about it, you know. 601 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,000 [Jacobs] He said, "Okay this a robbery. Get down on the floor." 602 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,360 At some point, and I still don't know why, 603 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,080 Allen decided it was time for him to take action. 604 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,640 Allen was trying to get the gun when the shots went off. 605 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,560 And it came up through the webbing in his finger and hit him in the head. 606 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,440 Um, I got chill bumps. I mean... 607 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,720 I never thought anybody would admit to anything like that. 608 00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:48,120 That I just didn't go in there in cold blood 609 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,200 and just for wanton reasons. 610 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,200 I mean, I was... I was scared. I was-- 611 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,640 I was in water that I never swam before, 612 00:49:57,720 --> 00:50:00,520 and I didn't know-- I didn't know what I was doing. 613 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,800 And I was in a situation. And, uh... 614 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,720 I don't really know what to say to that because that's the last thing 615 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,480 I really expected to hear through this right here. Uh... 616 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,120 I need him to know that I have forgiven him for what he did. 617 00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:22,880 That doesn't mean I like him. 618 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,840 That doesn't mean I want to be his pen pal. 619 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,720 But for me to go on, I had to forgive him. 620 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,040 [producer] Hearing that, do you have any message for Christi Carter? 621 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,400 Thank you. I mean, thank you. 622 00:50:45,240 --> 00:50:47,440 I know I'm not worth nothing, but thank you. 623 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:49,640 Really, thank you.