1
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,720
Every once in a while, I'll think about,
2
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,960
you know, how my life
would have been if not for this.
3
00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,520
At times, I believe,
I deserve forgiveness.
4
00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:31,760
That I'm redeemable.
5
00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,120
I am very, very sorry for what happened.
6
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,080
And I wish that I could take it back.
7
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,240
What I did, it's not who I am.
8
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,320
How could I do something like that?
9
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,080
[man 1]
And I walked up, I fired one shot.
10
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,520
And as I got closer,
I fired one more shot.
11
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,360
[man 2] She was shot through the cheek
and it stopped in her jaw.
12
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,880
[man 3] I drove him around behind a desk
and I stabbed him approximately 25 times.
13
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,000
[man 4] I couldn't believe it.
14
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,320
I just thought I can't believe
I just killed somebody.
15
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,360
[man 5]
I don't feel bad about it. [laughs]
16
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,080
[man 6] I started stabbing him,
stabbing the guy on the couch.
17
00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:52,440
My name is Joshua David Nelson.
I'm 40 years old and I'm on death row.
18
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,040
I've been here 20 years.
19
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,960
And I was 18 and, like, two months
when I caught this case.
20
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:09,160
My earliest memories
were of my father as an alcoholic.
21
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,960
I was probably four or five,
maybe even younger.
22
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,920
As soon as he came in, my mom
was waiting on him and it would start.
23
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,000
They would argue,
and it would fill the trailer.
24
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:32,360
And I-- I would run to my room
and hide out in my room,
25
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,640
uh, crying, as I knew what was happening.
He was beating on her.
26
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,400
And I couldn't help her,
but I was also terrified that I was next.
27
00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:52,120
I was probably seven when it happened,
when they eventually got, uh, a divorce.
28
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,120
And then I thought it was gonna get a lot
better, 'cause it's just me and my mom.
29
00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,000
But it didn't get better.
30
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,640
[birds chirping]
31
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,040
[Nelson] We came down to Florida.
32
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,840
Within a year, I got, like, arrested
four or five times.
33
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:37,600
And it was multiple car thefts
and breaking-and-enterings.
34
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:41,840
I was doing drugs.
35
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,560
I experimented with marijuana, alcohol,
36
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,800
you know, hard alcohol, beer,
uh, some roofies.
37
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,040
I even huffed gasoline a couple of times.
38
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:59,120
When the courts heard that,
they suggested that I go to a drug rehab.
39
00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,000
I just showed up one day, they just
dropped me down in one of those places,
40
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,600
and there's ten other boys your age there,
41
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,560
and they're all there,
more than likely, for the same reason.
42
00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,880
And me and Keith,
43
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,200
we just gravitated towards each other,
I guess, and started talking.
44
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,200
Became fast friends, really good friends.
45
00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:31,000
And the friendship built
the longer we spent in that rehab.
46
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:32,480
We became friends on the streets.
47
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,360
Went to the same high school
and hung out pretty much every day.
48
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:55,160
Me and Keith started dating two sisters,
and Tina was the youngest sister
49
00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,880
and she started dating Keith.
50
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,000
That's how we all came together.
51
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,080
Tommy was brought in to our group
by another friend of ours.
52
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,920
He just rolled up on us
in his car one time, Tommy did,
53
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,160
and I didn't really have much interaction
with him at first.
54
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,680
He seemed like, uh, a decent person.
55
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,120
And, you know,
he was a little bit older than us,
56
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,040
and we just started hanging out.
57
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,160
When me and Keith
was in that rehab together,
58
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,680
we would escape the reality
of our situation by fantasizing about,
59
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,360
yeah, when we get out, we would do all
these things, you know, commit crimes
60
00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,880
and we would, you know, better our lives,
we would get away from all these things.
61
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,520
Fast forward to that day,
62
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,920
I don't remember exactly how that came up,
but it came up.
63
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,640
We said we could kill Tommy.
64
00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,720
We could take his car, take his money
65
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:28,800
and do whatever we wanted to do.
Be on our own.
66
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,760
At first, I thought
it was just blowing off steam, at first.
67
00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,400
I gave it no mind.
68
00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,960
I didn't think
that it was really gonna happen.
69
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,200
I wasn't, you know, in essence,
70
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,680
planning it out as you would, uh...
71
00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,720
You know, meticulously planning it out,
I wasn't doing that.
72
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:00,600
Neither was Keith.
73
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,840
We called him. He came over, picked us up.
We drove around.
74
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,760
Keith said, "You know, um,
we gotta get some money."
75
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:27,960
So he's like, "Okay."
76
00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,280
And Keith says,
"Well, if we give you some of that money,
77
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,720
will you take us to the rendezvous point
so we can pick the money up?"
78
00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,239
He was like, "Yeah.
I'll take you there. I'll help."
79
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,920
[Nelson] I still don't have the feeling
like, that's a done deal--
80
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,040
that's gonna happen,
we're gonna kill him.
81
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:59,480
So, we drive out to this abandoned area,
82
00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:01,560
this undeveloped area in Cape Coral.
83
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,160
We tell him, you know, uh...
84
00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,600
we're gonna "wait for them,"
wait for them to come and give us money.
85
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:19,800
So we get out the car.
86
00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:27,600
Baseball bat came from Tommy.
87
00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:30,160
He carried it around
in the back of his car.
88
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,840
He said for protection.
89
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,320
So, when I got out,
I used that as a premise.
90
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,040
We're standing out in the dark
in the middle of nowhere,
91
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,120
I'm gonna have this bat just in case
somebody comes out of the woods.
92
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:51,120
Me and Keith are outside and we're kind
of talking about what's gonna happen.
93
00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:55,640
I say, 'I'll hit him first.
If I knock him out,
94
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,000
you gotta finish him off."
95
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,240
"You gotta kill him."
96
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,840
Then we talk about,
"How are we gonna get him out the car?"
97
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,600
We knew how much he valued that car.
98
00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:16,520
He loved that car.
99
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,040
Keith had the box cutter.
100
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,720
We cut the bumper with the cutter
and told him,
101
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,600
"Hey, when you was driving back here,
you must've hit something
102
00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:30,080
or something happened,
and there's a cut on this bumper."
103
00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,080
He got out.
104
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:37,960
He looked at the bumper.
105
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,560
I felt, like, this rush of adrenaline.
I was trying to get myself to do it.
106
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,800
And I just couldn't do it.
107
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,280
And then I just stepped past that...
108
00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,360
that part of me that wasn't allowing me
to do that
109
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,480
and I hit him with the baseball bat.
110
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,000
He fell down.
111
00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:08,080
And then I tried to hit him again.
112
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:09,440
And...
113
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,720
then I hit-- I definitely hit him,
and he's...
114
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,640
and he was just crying and scream--
115
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,760
not screaming, but like,
you know, moaning and saying,
116
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,000
"Stop." You know, "Stop, stop.
Please stop. Please stop."
117
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,120
Begging.
118
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:31,840
And then...
119
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,000
he said he-- that's when he said,
120
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,480
"Take the car.
Take the car, take the money."
121
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,080
And we kind of walked off
to the side and said, you know,
122
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:47,880
"Is that a possibility?"
123
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,640
Kind of talked amongst ourselves and said,
"That's not... that's never--
124
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,120
You know, we're gonna get in trouble
for this."
125
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:00,720
Keith says, "We had that agreement."
126
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,880
If I'd knock him out, he would finish him.
127
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,120
So, I hit him with the bat.
128
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,600
I hit him again with the bat.
129
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,640
And he stopped making noise.
He stopped begging, he stopped talking.
130
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,600
And Keith pulled out
one of his shoestrings from his shoes
131
00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:27,080
and tied him up.
132
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,400
I said, "Keith, you know, it's on you.
He's out."
133
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,040
That's when Tommy said,
"I'm not out! I'm not out!"
134
00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:39,600
And then I walked over there
135
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,800
and I hit him with the bat
several more times.
136
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:47,640
Really hard.
137
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,840
Everything that I had dealt with
my entire life came out at that moment
138
00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,200
and all those feelings,
all that anger, and--
139
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,000
It just...
140
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:08,080
It just-- it just all happened
in that moment and--
141
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,920
He didn't make-- he wasn't--
he was out then, 'cause he didn't...
142
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,680
he didn't say anything else, he didn't...
143
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,880
he didn't resist.
144
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,400
And then Keith went over there and started
cutting his throat with a box cutter.
145
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,280
[Nelson] We drug him to an area
146
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:44,960
with more, like, shrubs and ground cover,
I guess you would say,
147
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,080
instead of just next to a road.
148
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,480
We took a big piece of wood
and put it over him.
149
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,200
And when we drove off, we threw the bat
in the water and the razor away.
150
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:10,760
We got rid of the clothes we were wearing
because we were covered in blood.
151
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,360
[voice altered] My sister
had met Josh through McDonalds
152
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,200
'cause he was working there.
153
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,200
I met Keith through Josh,
154
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,520
and shortly after, we started dating.
155
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,480
All of us had problems in our families.
156
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,200
And we had all been talking
for quite some time
157
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,720
about wanting to run away together.
158
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:42,680
And our biggest problem
was how any of us were gonna go anywhere.
159
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,320
And Keith and Josh had said,
160
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,120
"You know, don't worry about it,"
that they would get a car.
161
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:57,840
That particular day, they had called
and said, "We're leaving tonight."
162
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:00,800
We said okay.
163
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,760
So we just waited around
for the phone call
164
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,800
to leave our house and walk down
the street to be picked up.
165
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,440
As soon as we seen Tommy's car,
we knew something was wrong.
166
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:28,120
We didn't know if they had, somehow,
convinced Tommy to give up his car
167
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,240
or what was going on.
168
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:39,040
They were both very quiet,
and we asked, "Where's Tommy?"
169
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,080
And Keith responded with, "We killed him."
170
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,760
[woman] This is a picture of Tommy
when he was about 18.
171
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,520
And this is Tommy
when he worked at Winn-Dixie.
172
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,760
He was about 16 then.
173
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:28,120
And, um, this here
was the last picture taken.
174
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,600
That's, uh, Tommy.
175
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,280
That was the Thursday night
before he died, and my sister.
176
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:39,600
That was the car,
the Ford Probe that they wanted.
177
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,040
I took the picture of him and my sister.
178
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,280
He was tickling her ribs.
179
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,360
And then the following night
is when he... he got killed.
180
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,280
So I know that was the last picture
taken of him.
181
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,760
Tommy was a very happy, energetic person.
182
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:27,160
He liked cars, installing stereos.
183
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,360
Always on the go, liked to make friends.
184
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,560
Um, I don't think he had any enemies.
185
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,200
Never drank, smoked.
Couldn't find a better person.
186
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,800
He was going to community college.
187
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,720
He'd just started taking up criminal law.
He wanted to be a cop.
188
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,880
And he said, "I'll buy a duplex."
189
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,320
And he'll live in one end with his family
and I'll live in the other end.
190
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:11,440
And he was gonna have his Lamborghini
in the driveway.
191
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:13,480
I said, "Okay."
192
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,000
Sounded fine at the time.
193
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:31,560
We didn't know at first
what... what had happened.
194
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,120
We never thought it would turn to this.
195
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:41,160
Um, we had gone to Josh's house,
talked to his stepfather.
196
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,920
And we went to the high school,
we were talking to friends.
197
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,840
They assumed
they all went to Fort Lauderdale.
198
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,840
We thought the worst thing was that,
being he was not a drug user,
199
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,400
they got him on some kind of drug
200
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,680
and he's just forgetting to call home.
201
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,600
That was about the worst thing
we thought.
202
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,800
But it took 11 days before we knew
what had happened.
203
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,120
They did the positive ID's
through the dental records
204
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,960
because of the decomposition.
205
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,400
Eleven days in a field,
in Florida, in the heat.
206
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,720
[man] He should have been able to do
everything that he was gonna do.
207
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,320
And he didn't get to do it.
208
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,960
All over a stupid car.
209
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,240
I mean, all I have to do
is think about it,
210
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,720
and I start crying like a little baby.
211
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,800
[sniffs, clicks tongue]
And believe me, I'm pissed.
212
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,640
He's lived all this time
as my family dies.
213
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,160
Coming from a peaceful hippie,
this is saying a lot.
214
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,560
But I ain't that peaceful.
215
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,640
Peace, love and happiness forever,
until you brutally murder my brother.
216
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,560
I will dedicate my life.
217
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,800
I will dedicate my life!
218
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,280
They will wish they never-- They're better off where they're at
219
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,840
because they will not wanna meet me
when they get out.
220
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,640
[Owens] This is, uh, Tommy's dad.
221
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,720
He died on December 4th of '04. Cancer.
222
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,240
And, um, yeah, he was hoping
223
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,400
he... he could be there at the execution.
224
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,400
He was gonna eat popcorn in the front row.
225
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,120
That was his-- what he said
to the reporters back then.
226
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,160
But as he got sicker and sicker,
227
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,040
you know, we knew
he wasn't gonna be there.
228
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,520
It's just, you know, 22 years
is a long time to wait, you know?
229
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,320
And he's definitely should have been
put to death a long time ago.
230
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,080
[Owens] In their minds, they had a reason.
They planned.
231
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,000
But thinking back, no, there was...
there was absolutely no reason.
232
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,720
Tommy was trying to just tell them,
"Take the car, take the car."
233
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,840
You know, he knew they were killing him.
234
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,280
But they continued.
They made the decision to kill him.
235
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,120
They could have just taken the car
and left.
236
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:30,760
But they made the wrong choice.
And now they're paying for it.
237
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,080
And one's gonna pay with his life.
238
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,960
[Stewart] When I was 19,
I was married to Peggy,
239
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,680
and she is the mother of Heather,
our daughter.
240
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,200
And Peggy is also the mother
of Josh Nelson.
241
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,720
I think I was divorced at 21.
242
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,160
And, uh...
243
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,160
Josh came along about three years later.
244
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,800
I can remember, uh,
as Heather was six months old
245
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,840
feeling just concerned on a bigger level
246
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,160
as to the maternal care
that Peggy was able to give to her.
247
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,600
I can remember I could hear Heather crying
in the back of the house.
248
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,200
And I might go and check on Heather,
and she'd quiet down.
249
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,440
And then, uh, once Peggy got up
250
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,800
and I heard her go to the back
of the trailer,
251
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:23,120
and the crying stopped quite suddenly,
252
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,520
to a point
that I was just conscious of it.
253
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,960
It just seemed different.
254
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,880
And I got up to walk back
just to see what was going on.
255
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,840
And as I went into the room,
256
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:44,200
Peggy stepped back from Heather, the baby,
and had a pillow in her hand.
257
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:49,640
And it appeared as if Peggy was holding
the pillow over Heather's face.
258
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,480
When she stepped back,
Heather started crying again.
259
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,440
And I couldn't see it directly,
260
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,720
but it just, it felt very much, to me,
as if that's what was going on.
261
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,200
And I questioned Peggy about it.
262
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:05,840
And she denied it.
263
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,800
She said she was just, you know,
she was just trying to comfort Heather.
264
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,880
Um, and there were... there were
a few incidents similar to that.
265
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,680
[Stewart]
When I did get custody of Heather,
266
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,520
I can remember asking Heather,
267
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,520
"Is this something that you want?"
268
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,480
Because, you know, you don't know for sure
how kids feel about this.
269
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,720
And I can remember Heather saying,
270
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,920
well, yes, she did want to come
to Michigan and stay with me,
271
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,720
but she was very concerned about Josh.
272
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,920
She said, "I don't wanna
leave Josh there by himself."
273
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,560
[Heather] My mom was not nurturing.
274
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,520
I would say that she did not have
the mothering ability.
275
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,040
I think that there was just a void
inside of her
276
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:20,080
that she wasn't able to be the mother
277
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,160
that myself and Josh needed,
278
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:26,880
that children are supposed to have.
279
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,960
[Heather] Alan, Josh's dad--
280
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,880
the alcoholic part, I think,
is what defined him,
281
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,640
'cause I know
that he was physically abusive to Josh.
282
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:50,680
I mean, he spanked him a lot.
Um, he yelled at him a lot.
283
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,360
Um...
284
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,920
but I guess I don't know
how much of that went on more
285
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,640
when I wasn't there,
286
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,040
than when I was visiting.
287
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:08,200
You know, if that's one of those things
that people, behind closed doors...
288
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,120
I don't know.
289
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:15,920
[quavering] It's kind of hard now.
290
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,560
[Heather] I think that that kind
of an environment destroyed Josh.
291
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,000
He was never given the values, the morals.
292
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,600
I don't think he was ever taught
how to love.
293
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,760
Um, and when you don't have that,
you can't give that.
294
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,960
And you can't, um--
295
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,040
There's just nothing at--
296
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,920
Like I said, I mean, I just don't think
that he ever had a chance.
297
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,720
[Heather] When they moved to Florida,
in, like, 1991,
298
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,960
that kind of cut off any communication
or ties to family.
299
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,720
I found out about the sexual abuse
that was going on with him and Greg,
300
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,080
his stepdad, during the trial.
301
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,440
I mean, I had no idea.
302
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,600
From what I read in the reports,
303
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,040
Greg sexually abusing Josh
was a daily thing, a weekly thing.
304
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,240
It was not a...
every-once-in-a-while thing.
305
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,640
It was... It was--
From the way that the reports read,
306
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,280
it was almost that was his entire life.
307
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,280
[Nelson on recording] It first started
where I would be in the shower
308
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,480
and he would come in there and sit down
on the toilet.
309
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:24,960
And, you know, obviously, I knew
something was not right about that.
310
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,320
Eventually, one night,
he came into my room and...
311
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,840
he started touching me
in my private-- my penis,
312
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,400
and I would try to roll away.
313
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,240
And he was persistent.
314
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,120
And then I would try and roll,
I-- I acted like I was asleep.
315
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,520
I acted like it wasn't existing.
I mean, it wasn't happening.
316
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,240
It couldn't be happening.
317
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:55,880
And I sunk deeper inside myself,
and, eventually, I got an erection.
318
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,360
I was young and my body responded.
319
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,160
And then he would perform oral sex on me.
320
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,240
When he would do that,
321
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,440
I can't describe what I've...
I can't describe what I felt.
322
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,600
I felt nothing.
I felt absolutely nothing.
323
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,560
And like I said,
I just sunk deeper inside of myself,
324
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,360
running away from myself.
325
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,720
Eventually, I got up the courage
to tell my mom
326
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,680
after it had been happening
for six-- six months, a year.
327
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,880
I sat her down and I looked at her
and I said, "Mom, this is what he's doing to me."
328
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,960
And she called him into the room
and he acknowledged it.
329
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,800
He said he thought that I liked it,
that's why he was doing it.
330
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,200
And she told him
that if he ever did it again,
331
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:01,880
that she would kill him.
332
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,440
And I'm sitting there
thinking the whole time,
333
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,800
"If he ever does it again?"
334
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,000
What about the times he did it, you know?
335
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,280
What about all those times
that he did it?
336
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,520
[sniffles]
337
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:30,400
[sniffles]
338
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,520
[sighs]
339
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,560
I find it hard to believe that...
340
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,400
an innocent child
341
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,920
is sitting in death row.
342
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,560
[inhales]
343
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,880
[sighs]
344
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,920
And there is no accountability
345
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:18,480
for the people
who have put him where he is.
346
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,879
I mean, I wish
that I could have saved him.
347
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,720
[sobs] I wish that somebody
would have just saved him.
348
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,120
[sniffles]
349
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,360
Because nobody deserves that. [sniffles]
350
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:47,280
[sniffles] There were so many people
who could have saved him.
351
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,840
Adults who should have stepped in.
352
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,840
Whether when he was 2 or 12,
353
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,640
nobody had his back.
354
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,040
And I'm sorry that I didn't.
355
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,200
[Nelson on recording] It made him stop
for a little while, maybe a month or two,
356
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,080
maybe three months.
357
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,320
But yeah, it didn't stop.
358
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,440
Yeah, he approached me again.
359
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,520
By this time, I was 18, and...
360
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:40,000
I felt like I wasn't gonna let it
happen anymore.
361
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,960
And he didn't react,
362
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,440
but he's like, "You know,
you need to come with me.
363
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:49,720
We need to go talk to your mom."
364
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,440
I was like, "Yeah.
Let's go talk to my mom."
365
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,880
So-- but he manipulated the situation
366
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,280
where he wanted me
to wait out in the car,
367
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:04,360
and while he went in
and talked to my mom.
368
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,800
So, in hindsight, who knows?
369
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,480
I just-- I was just trusting
for whatever reason, I don't know.
370
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,440
I just trusted those, and you know,
371
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,680
in that position, I guess,
like an authority figure.
372
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,160
I just trusted him.
373
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:24,960
And he went in, talked to my mom,
and she came out livid, pissed.
374
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,160
Told me to give her my key.
375
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:30,560
And I was out. I had to get out.
376
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,240
And I had no job. I had no money.
377
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,880
I had to get my clothes and get--
get out.
378
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,920
So, I was like,
"All right. Well, what can I do?"
379
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:34,160
[Tina] One night, my sister and I went
to Josh's house to see Keith and Josh,
380
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,240
and Keith was not there.
381
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,720
I was going to walk to a pay phone
to call Keith.
382
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,720
And Tommy was there that night
383
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,680
and he said that I could use the phone
in his car.
384
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,400
When we got into his car, he told me
that we would have to drive up the road
385
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,160
to where he could get service
in order for me to make a call.
386
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,000
And I agreed.
387
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,840
Instead, he drove me to a remote area
where no one else was around
388
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,440
and proceeded to sexually assault me.
389
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,360
And I had no intention of saying anything,
390
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,080
but my sister could tell
there was something wrong with me.
391
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,320
As soon as I told her,
392
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,600
she told Josh everything that happened.
393
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,880
Of course, Josh was furious.
394
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,120
At first, Tommy denied everything,
395
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,120
but later on,
finally admitted what he had done.
396
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,640
[Tina] When I first found out
what happened,
397
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,680
I was glad Tommy was gone.
398
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,960
That was my initial thought--
399
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,320
and I would never have
to deal with him again.
400
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,720
The guilt came afterwards.
401
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:39,360
Not that I felt they did what they did
402
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,960
simply because of what Tommy did to me.
403
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,640
I knew they both had problems
in their own lives.
404
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:51,800
But I felt that telling them
what had happened to me
405
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,560
was the straw that broke the camel's back.
406
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:09,040
A lot of lives were lost that night.
407
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:13,960
Not just Tommy's.
408
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,120
A lot of people were hurt,
a lot of people were destroyed.
409
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,280
Josh, Keith, the entire Owens family.
410
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,360
Nobody will ever be the same
after that night.
411
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:47,000
Josh will always have
a very special place in my heart.
412
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,240
He's a good-hearted person.
413
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,480
He was a scared kid.
414
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,400
He had a lot of damage done to him
in his life.
415
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,200
And it came out in a terrible way.
416
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,760
[Owens] It could have happened.
417
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,240
We don't know.
418
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,920
Well, I don't think it's relevant.
They, um, mentioned that at trial.
419
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,320
They were all friends
420
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,000
and, um, there was no forcing or rape.
421
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,360
It just wasn't talked about
422
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,400
except brought up that one time,
and that was the end of it.
423
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,400
They planned it, premeditated.
They wanted his car and they killed him.
424
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,960
To lure somebody into the woods,
to lure them out of their own car,
425
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:12,360
and to beat them with a baseball bat
and slice his throat,
426
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,120
and he's begging for his life
and saying, "Take the car."
427
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,760
And they still, "No we're gonna kill you."
And they did.
428
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,800
And what did-- what did they gain?
429
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,480
They're in prison and my son's gone.
430
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,520
So, no, I... I wouldn't forgive them.
431
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,400
I hope they burn in hell.
432
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:53,640
[Nelson on recording]
I still can't fully emotionally feel
433
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:58,480
and understand and comprehend
what I did that night.
434
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,840
How could I...
how could I do something like that?
435
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,520
How could I, especially after being
a victim my whole life,
436
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,040
being other people's victim,
that I would go out
437
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,920
and just brutally victimize
somebody like that?
438
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,240
Because, I mean, I'm--
I'm totally responsible for that.
439
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,920
No one else is responsible for that.
I did that.
440
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:28,400
And I wanna take it back, so bad.
441
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:33,600
I wanna remove that pain
that I caused from everybody.
442
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,120
I wanna bring him back to life,
but I can't.
443
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:42,560
I don't know how...
444
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,040
[quavering]
I don't know how to make amends.
445
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,720
I don't know how to apologize.
446
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,720
[stammers] I don't know how--
I don't know what...
447
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,640
you know, I don't know what to say.
448
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:16,440
So, he takes responsibility enough,
449
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,400
but that's more or less
all he said, that he...
450
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,160
he's had all these years to think about
that he is responsible for what happened.
451
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,800
But I don't feel any different
towards him.
452
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,880
'Cause of that statement,
it's not like I should forgive him. No.
453
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,080
I think it's the words
he needs to say right now
454
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,800
'cause he knows his execution date
is getting closer.
455
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,040
And he'll say anything to, you know,
to get some sympathy.
456
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:56,520
But at the time, he didn't say nothing.
457
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,640
He actually made a face at us
leaving the courtroom.
458
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,920
And that was brought up at trial,
that he gave us a smirk.
459
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,360
The only thing he was sorry for
was getting caught.
460
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:23,120
I-I don't recall that, but I would never
smirk at them about something like that.
461
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,880
I might have smirked about something
that someone was saying on the stand
462
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,480
or something
that I didn't agree with, and...
463
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,600
But even at that time,
I wouldn't do that [stammers] at them.
464
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:06,600
[Tina on recording]
Not that I felt they did what they did
465
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,360
simply because of what Tommy did to me.
466
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:16,480
I felt that telling them
what had happened to me
467
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,320
was the straw
that broke the camel's back.
468
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:25,560
[sighs] I don't-- that's a hard,
you know, that's a hard question to answer
469
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,760
because, you know, uh,
I think things happen--
470
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,320
You know, there are a series of things
that happen that leads up to something.
471
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,520
I don't think
that that was the defining factor
472
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,400
of killing him.
473
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:47,320
No.
474
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,640
But that was definitely a factor
475
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:52,160
that...
476
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,360
that made him not so innocent,
you know, to me.
477
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,280
[Nelson] You can't really hide
from yourself,
478
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,760
you know, when you're stuck in a cell
all by yourself.
479
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:30,680
That's helped me.
480
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,080
That's helped me to change,
to help me to examine who I really am
481
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,760
and not who I am
because of what I went through.
482
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,600
I'm more in touch with my feelings,
in touch with that side of myself
483
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,160
and more...
484
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,160
Yeah, I'm not angry,
I'm not in pain, I'm--
485
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,400
Or those things don't dominate my life,
you know?
486
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,800
Sometimes, I think I deserve to die
487
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,480
because, you know,
that's what our society believes.
488
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,920
That's the, you know,
that's... that's the price you pay
489
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,320
when you commit murder, sometimes.
490
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,240
But at the same time, I don't feel
like that I deserve to die either
491
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,160
because, you know, [stammers]
492
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:31,160
the death penalty, they say,
is reserved for worst of the worst.
493
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:33,280
But am I worst of the worst?
494
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:45,160
I know you can't look at me
without seeing that-- what I've done.
495
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,760
But I would just hope
that people could look at me and see,
496
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,960
not forgetting about that,
but seeing me as more than that.
497
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,320
And I... I know that's extremely hard
for people to do.
498
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,680
I understand that, and... and...
499
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:09,560
I just wanna-- you know,
I just wanna be seen for all that I am,
500
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,600
not that-- [stammers] that moment.
501
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,120
That one...
502
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,800
un... you know, unbelievable,
terrible, horrific decision.
503
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,120
I'm more than that, and...
504
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,200
Yeah, that was one of the motivators
for doing this, is I want...
505
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:35,960
I know that it's probably not
gonna matter much,
506
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,800
but I want people to know that,
that... that it's not so simple.
507
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,200
It's not that clear cut. It's... you know?