1 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:13,640 [man] I think it's fair to say 2 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,200 that I destroyed my family a long time ago. 3 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,720 When I shot my father and even before that. 4 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,400 Then, I think I hurt my family again. 5 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:31,800 I mean like... 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,520 soul-wrenching pain. 7 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,680 You know, people always want to say, "I'm sorry." 8 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:14,200 That doesn't work. 9 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:15,920 When you ring a bell... 10 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:17,680 the bell doesn't unring. 11 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,400 You can't unravel time and go back. 12 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,920 [man 1] This is a true story. 13 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,600 I'll start it off like that. 14 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,920 [man 2] I just wanted to rebel, I wanted to cause chaos. 15 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,800 I looked over at him. We'll see who kills who, huh? 16 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,200 [woman] I made the choice. 17 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:45,320 I took his life. 18 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,360 [man 3] It's something that I never intended to do, 19 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,200 I wish I didn't do. 20 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,200 [man 4] I knew I was gonna get out of that car and murder those two men. 21 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,680 [man 5] As he kneeled in front of me, 22 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,960 all I remember is pulling the trigger. 23 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,960 [man 6] I'd killed them both. 24 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:09,280 I'd stabbed them to death. 25 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,040 Uh, my name is Charles Armentrout. 26 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,920 During my younger years, everyone called me Billy. 27 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:16,040 [laughs] 28 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,120 Hey, this is a true story. I'll start it off like that. 29 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,960 Uh, I was born in St. Louis City. 30 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,400 St. Louis Hospital, August 2nd, 1965. 31 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,880 I wasn't too old when my parents got separated. 32 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,400 Probably six or seven years old, maybe. 33 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,600 I remember my stepdad... 34 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,200 and my mom getting together. 35 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,120 I think the relationship with my stepfather 36 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,720 is where all the anger started appearing. 37 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,640 He didn't physically abuse me so much, 38 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,280 as he did verbally and mentally abuse me. 39 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,400 And I think over time that took a toll on me. 40 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,680 When you got an adult all the time telling you you're stupid, you're dumb, 41 00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:24,240 that has... that plays a factor in your development. 42 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,280 And I think... 43 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:28,320 that's where... 44 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:31,560 all the negative behavior started coming from. 45 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,200 When I was 18, me and my stepdad were not getting along at all 46 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,960 to the point of almost physical blows between the two of us. 47 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,160 And my father called me and he said, 48 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,920 "You're 18, you can come live with me and your mother can't say anything." 49 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,520 So I moved in with my father. 50 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,720 At first it was fine, but now that I look back on it, 51 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,400 I was not making the right choices. 52 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,320 I was just in a bad place. 53 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,000 I wanted to be the bad guy. 54 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,720 I started robbing gas stations. 55 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,960 After I robbed my first gas station, I seen it was easy, so I robbed another. 56 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:26,600 Uh, that robbery turned into another robbery. 57 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:28,720 I was a loose cannon. 58 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,480 The thrill was intense. 59 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,320 I can remember vividly a very prominent point 60 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,680 and I was talking to myself, I was having a conversation with myself. 61 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,080 And I said, "If you keep doing this, if you keep going down this road, 62 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:48,680 you're going to end up dying... 63 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,280 or messing up really bad. You've got to stop." 64 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,840 And I said to myself, "Screw it." 65 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,000 From that point on, it got worse. 66 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,760 I started stealing money from my father. 67 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,760 He caught me writing checks on his account... 68 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,000 and he got really pissed. 69 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,960 I thought he was going to kick me out of the house. 70 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:31,960 And... 71 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,920 I was worried that I would have to go back to my stepfather. 72 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:39,000 And I knew my stepfather was going to be on me. 73 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,400 I couldn't... I couldn't do it. 74 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,040 I felt like I was in a corner. 75 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:53,560 And I didn't have no way out. 76 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,920 Yeah, I had some type of insanity at that point in time. 77 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:09,400 I waited for my father to come home. 78 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,360 We have a door up the stairs and I was on the other side of the door. 79 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,520 When he reached for the doorknob, I started to fire. 80 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,680 [gunshots continue] 81 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,600 I forget exactly how many times I hit him. 82 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,680 I think six, maybe seven, 83 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,160 out of nine shots. 84 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,280 Uh... 85 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:01,280 I ambushed him. 86 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,400 He didn't do anything wrong to me. 87 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:12,960 'Cause he really didn't. 88 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,760 I didn't care. I cared about me. 89 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:18,400 Man, I was a monster. 90 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,960 The police wanted him to prosecute, but he didn't want to prosecute me. 91 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,080 He thought I was... 92 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,120 he thought I was insane. 93 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,680 During the hours after my father was shot, 94 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,360 the police department's realized that I had robbed several gas stations. 95 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:00,760 I was arrested for that, 96 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,240 charged and sentenced several months later to 19 years. 97 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,280 I served ten of that 98 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,320 in the Department of Corrections. 99 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:22,720 [horn blows] 100 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,160 [train chugging] 101 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,480 When I was released at 28, 102 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,360 the only person that was prepared to accept me 103 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,080 on parole, because I had to have a place to parole to, 104 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:51,160 was my grandmother. 105 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:52,720 Inez Notter. 106 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,280 My father's mother. 107 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,560 She was a firecracker. 108 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,080 She was small in stature. 109 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:01,440 She had a big heart. 110 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:03,000 Uh... 111 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,000 And ultimately, she forgave me for shooting her son. 112 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,080 Absolutely incredible. 113 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,520 The neighborhood was the Bevo Mill area, in South St. Louis. 114 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,160 It was a good neighborhood. Quiet. 115 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:29,880 But at that time, I was hanging around the wrong people, 116 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,720 wanting to be the life of the party, the big shot. 117 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,080 Uh, Roger Brannan was... he was weird, but he was cool. 118 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,600 We'd hang out at his house, smoke weed, party. 119 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,040 Rick Lacey was different than Roger Brannan. 120 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,240 Rick Lacey was a guy's guy. 121 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:54,960 He was a dope fiend. 122 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,080 He was a petty criminal. 123 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,000 And we just hung out, we did drugs, all the time, 24/7. 124 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,320 I started hanging around with this one girl. 125 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,480 And she introduced me to cocaine. 126 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,000 And once I started, it just bit me and I couldn't shake it. 127 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,000 I would ask my grandmother for money. 128 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,640 And she would give me money. 129 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,960 And then, she started not giving me money. 130 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,440 So I stole checks and started writing checks on her account, 131 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:49,920 and stealing money. 132 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,240 Uh, she found out about it, confronted me with it, 133 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,600 and I was like, "I'm sorry, Grandma. I'm... I didn't mean it. 134 00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:58,640 I'll pay it back." 135 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:05,680 And about a week later, 136 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:07,720 my car got impounded. 137 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:09,280 I didn't have no money. 138 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:11,200 [clicks tongue] 139 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,960 And I went home to my grandmother's house and tried to get some money. 140 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:18,600 And she refused. 141 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,320 The only way I thought I could get some money was to... 142 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:31,920 rob her. 143 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:33,920 Uh... 144 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,040 Beat her up. 145 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,040 This is pretty gruesome, but it went from robbing... 146 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,880 to when I first swung the bat. 147 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:03,640 Then I knew I had to kill her. 148 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,920 I followed her in her bedroom and I started beating her with the bat. 149 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,120 I beat her until she was unconscious, tied her up and laid her on the bed, 150 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,240 rifled the drawers, found some money, left. 151 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:31,360 Yeah... 152 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,800 that's what I did, and I killed her. 153 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,760 I came back the next day... 154 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:53,880 took the body and hid it in a trunk in the basement 155 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:55,640 and tried to clean up the scene. 156 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,800 [man] We began the manhunt for Billy Armentrout. 157 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,760 He was the primary suspect in this, 158 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,320 so 100% of our effort went to finding him. 159 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,320 I'm Bill McDonough, and I was one of the original detectives 160 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,600 assigned to the case. 161 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,280 We found out that Billy had tried to cash one of his grandmother's checks that day 162 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,200 and was turned away from the bank. 163 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,600 Which is a good, fresh trail. 164 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,680 Everybody involved had informants that were familiar with the streets. 165 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,880 And so everybody... everybody contacted their folks 166 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,320 and put it out there that we were looking for him, and we got a call 167 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:35,080 and I just remember them saying, "Hey, he's spotted at Ricky Lacey's house," 168 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,520 gave the address and we jumped in our cars 169 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,400 and drove down there as fast as we could. 170 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,720 And while we're en route, we announce on the radio 171 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,800 that we're gonna take the back, um... 172 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,840 because the bad guy always goes out the back. 173 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,480 I was right on the nose, 3436. 174 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,280 That's it. First floor. 175 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,120 Homicide pulled up to the front 176 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,880 and out of the back window, um, came Billy Armentrout 177 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,120 as like a gift from God, dropped right at my feet and... 178 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,560 um, we fought for a little bit and I got him under control 179 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,720 and put in custody and, uh, that was it. Billy was in custody. 180 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,440 [faint background conversation] 181 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,920 I got transferred to the bureau, 182 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,640 and then, um, I got immediately assigned with Rubin and, um... 183 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,160 We hit... we hit the ground running. 184 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,440 Um, back in the '90s, we had the, uh, crack wars... 185 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,000 and, uh, they were getting 200-plus murders in the city... 186 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:10,840 a year. 187 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,680 [Bill] Actually, after we captured Billy, 188 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,920 we start talking and this gave me an idea of... 189 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,240 of really how bad the crack monster had him 190 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,960 when he said, "Is this about my grandma?" 191 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,720 And we said, "Yeah, it's about your grandma." 192 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:31,520 And he goes, "If... if... 193 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,200 if you let me smoke crack one more time, I'll tell you anything you wanna know." 194 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,720 And, you know, I was... I was floored at that, offended. 195 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,520 And I just said, "Billy, you know, 196 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,400 it's gonna hit you, eventually, what just happened here, 197 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,080 that you killed your grandma over this... over this thing 198 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,320 that you want one more, uh... one more hit of. That's not happening." 199 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,320 You have the right to remain silent. 200 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,960 -Do you understand that? -Yes. 201 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,880 Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. 202 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,480 -Do you understand that? -Yes. 203 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,520 [Bill] Tell us what happened Saturday morning. 204 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,160 Starting with the time that you woke up. 205 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:27,560 Well, Rick came over. 206 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:29,160 [Bill] Rick who? 207 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:30,800 Uh... 208 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:32,560 Lacey. 209 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:34,680 Rick Lacey came over... 210 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,760 [coughs] ...banging on the door. 211 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,320 I said, "Rick, what's going on?" 212 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,880 We kinda talk, try to figure out how to get some money. 213 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,920 And I said, "Well, we'll go over Grandma's and try to pull a scheme on her." 214 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,640 And, you know, Rick said, "Well, what if I knock her out?" 215 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,480 So I went in my bedroom, 216 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,040 got my little Cardinal bat off my dresser. 217 00:18:58,120 --> 00:18:59,920 Took it back in and gave it to Rick. 218 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,400 So Rick followed her in the bedroom 219 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,440 and I heard a commotion. 220 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,120 And Rick said, "Billy, Billy. You gotta get out of here. You gotta go." 221 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,280 Me and Rick left. 222 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,440 -[Bill] Why didn't you throw the bat away? -Rick said to throw it in the river. 223 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:15,680 I knew that wasn't no good. 224 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,880 -[Bill] Anybody else know you were there? -Rick. 225 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,560 Rick went to get some heroin... 226 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,200 I went over to Rick, came in and got high... 227 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,880 [Rubin] He wasn't all that difficult to interview. 228 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,520 He kept on lying about it, kept on saying Ricky Lacey did what he did. 229 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,520 When you say Rick Lacey assaulted your grandma with that baseball bat, 230 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,240 was just that bat used or was there anything else used? 231 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,160 Just the bat, to my knowledge. 232 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,880 [Rubin] We were quite confident 233 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,760 that Ricky Lacey had nothing to do with it. 234 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,280 Uh, Ricky Lacey said he had never been to Billy Armentrout's grandma's house. 235 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,920 We found no physical evidence there, fingerprints... 236 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,560 There was just nothing there. 237 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,800 [Bill] You know, you have a guy that is smoking crack. 238 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,520 He is just a... a tsunami 239 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,720 walking through the neighborhood and anything that he sees, 240 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,880 he's gonna take either by deceptive means or by violence. 241 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,240 Billy crossed into a whole different realm when he murdered his grandma. 242 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,560 [Rubin] He beat an 81-year-old woman who didn't weigh 100 pounds. 243 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,280 He'll probably do this again, 244 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,920 but he's going to pick on the, uh... on the most vulnerable. 245 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,320 I think he's evil, but I think he's a coward too. 246 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,680 What do I think about Billy Armentrout? 247 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,560 I think he's sick and disgusting 248 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,880 for what he did to his own grandma. 249 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,600 She did everything for him 250 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,800 and this is how she gets repaid. 251 00:21:55,120 --> 00:22:00,000 He does not need to be let go on these streets ever again. 252 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,200 My name is Roger Brannan, 253 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,120 and I'm from St. Louis, Missouri. 254 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,600 Well, I was friends with Billy Armentrout and Rick Lacey back in the day. 255 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,120 It was kind of like, I guess you could call it my... 256 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,880 my wild days. 257 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,040 [laughs] That's what it was. It was mostly partying. 258 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,880 You know, I, uh... 259 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:38,040 I did my drugs, which was weed, marijuana. 260 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,400 Never done none of that other stuff. You know, the crack or... 261 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,040 or heroin, 262 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,080 but they all did. 263 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:49,280 They hung down there at Rick's house. 264 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,040 Wherever they could do their drugs, that's what they did. 265 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:09,400 When I first found out what was going on, as in the murder, 266 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:11,920 I was arrested... 267 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,000 for trying to cash a check for Billy. 268 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,800 I was sleeping 269 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,720 and they came and knocked on my door 270 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,720 and it turns out that there was at least 20 of them. 271 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,880 They took me to the police station, 272 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:39,520 and when they said murder, I told 'em anything that they wanted to hear, 273 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,360 you know, 'cause I wasn't gonna... 274 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,160 you know, I wasn't gonna go to jail for something that somebody else did. 275 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:46,680 You know? 276 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,200 It scared me, really. 277 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,360 I always thought that it was just Billy that did it. 278 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,840 That thought of Rick Lacey helping Billy 279 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,640 murder his grandma, that thought didn't even come to my mind. 280 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,280 You know? 281 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,320 The only time that it did come to my mind is when it came out of Billy's mouth. 282 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,800 He was trying to blame it on somebody else and he picked Rick Lacey. 283 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:55,600 [distant car horn] 284 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,200 [man] I think that someone like Billy Armentrout 285 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,800 who had been living a life of lying to get drugs 286 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,000 and lying to get out of trouble, 287 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,920 to lie and go to court and say he didn't do something 288 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,960 was just a continuation of the behavior that he had been doing before. 289 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,160 My name is Chris Slusher. 290 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,440 I'm an attorney here in Columbia, Missouri, 291 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,240 and I've been a criminal defense attorney for 25 years. 292 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,000 Billy Armentrout, I remember, wanted to represent himself 293 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,560 from the beginning. 294 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,680 We had what I would call a hybrid role in the case. 295 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:54,320 Initially, we were appointed to be what would be termed standby counsel. 296 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,640 Um, essentially you're there, you're following things, 297 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,880 and if he needs you, you're there to then jump in. 298 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,960 So Rick followed her in the bedroom. 299 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,480 [Chris] I do remember Mr. Armentrout's claim 300 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,600 that Mr. Lacey was the primary one who delivered the blows 301 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,800 that caused the death of his grandmother. 302 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,320 Whatever, he hollered at me. 303 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,040 The State did not believe Mr. Armentrout's representations 304 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:25,120 about the role of Ricky Lacey, 305 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,680 and that they felt that Mr. Armentrout was the only one responsible. 306 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,760 [computer keys tapping] 307 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,000 In my experience in representing people in these cases, 308 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:01,280 there is, in many of them, 309 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,320 a fundamental fear of admitting their guilt 310 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,200 because they recognize what they have done is so terrible. 311 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,200 And so it's this conflict within them that makes them not want to admit it. 312 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,080 They have to evolve to the point where they can accept their own responsibility 313 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,200 and in my interaction with Mr. Armentrout, during the trial phase, 314 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,600 I didn't see that because he wasn't there yet. 315 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,280 [man] Billy was always claiming innocence about his crime. 316 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,240 He stood on the fact that he was innocent 317 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,320 and that he didn't commit this crime and that he got a raw deal. 318 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,680 I think that was a lot of where his bitterness came from. 319 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,240 I could relate to him, his... his anger with the system, 320 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,760 or his frustration with trying to prove his innocence. 321 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,880 My name is Randall Bernard Knese. I go by Randy. 322 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:41,960 I came... 323 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,800 to Potosi Correctional Center in 1997, 324 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,800 and I got to know Billy Armentrout, 325 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,600 lived in the same wing with him and got to be good friends with him. 326 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,560 [distant birds singing] 327 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,680 In the Missouri corrections system, 328 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,240 they have a class called "Impact of Crime on Victims Class" 329 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,400 or, as we call it, "ICVC". 330 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,960 At the end of it, they have what's called a victims' panel, 331 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,480 when they told their stories about how their loved one was murdered. 332 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,440 It was very, um... 333 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,400 It left you in a state 334 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,880 where you couldn't hide no more. 335 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,880 Where you... where you were like, "Damn, you know, I did that to somebody." 336 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,200 And this is the way their family... 337 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:41,800 feels. 338 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,560 And I don't know what it was for Billy that was changing him, 339 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,360 but there was a change going on 340 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,440 and he never really spoke it to me. 341 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,120 Then, one day, he said that he was going to sign up for ICVC. 342 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,960 I was like, "I'm going to be a part of this class, 343 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,680 'cause I'm gonna try to get the truth out of him." 344 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,040 Can Billy become a different guy 345 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,120 than the man that was a part of killing his grandmother? 346 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,480 Can he become no longer the guy 347 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,640 that committed his crime? 348 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,880 Something in that ICVC class got to him, 349 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,400 brought him to that place where he had that epiphany moment 350 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:34,920 where he shocked us all. 351 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,680 [Billy] I was doing ICVC. 352 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,280 Several of the inmates were people that I were close with, that knew me, 353 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,280 and then when Randy Knese did the last chapter, which is homicide.... 354 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,600 and he talked about his crime and then we went around the room... 355 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,080 I finally said, "I murdered my grandmother." 356 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,840 To absolute astonishment of everybody in the room. 357 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,320 I said her name was Inez Notter. 358 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,080 And I beat her to death with a baseball bat. 359 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,000 And when I said that, 360 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,440 all of the people that were on that panel had an understanding 361 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:22,800 that... 362 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,000 for once in my life, 363 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,080 I took ownership of my choices. 364 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:30,880 It wasn't that... 365 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,400 [clicks tongue] ...I didn't know I did it. It was that it was so... 366 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,000 painful... 367 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,960 that I couldn't acknowledge doing it, 368 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,680 uh, in any meaningful way. 369 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:48,960 I am sorry. 370 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,240 But how do I express it? 371 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,040 I can't. 372 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:54,800 However... 373 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,400 I can be a better person and a different person. 374 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,320 Someone so much so different that they wouldn't recognize 375 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,120 my actions, my thoughts... 376 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,120 or the way I conduct myself. 377 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,480 He's admitting that... 378 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,240 that he did it. 379 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,920 After all these years... 380 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,320 Wow. 381 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,120 And he... he knows what he did wrong. 382 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,280 He knows exactly what he did wrong. 383 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,080 And you want to know what? 384 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,160 [clicks tongue] 385 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:34,680 [sighs] 386 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,200 For some odd reason, I believe him. 387 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:39,520 I sure do. 388 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,160 [sighs] 389 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,040 I kind of feel sorry for the guy. 390 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,280 But he did wrong. 391 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:56,880 And... 392 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,840 he has to pay for what he did. 393 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,120 That's all I can say. I mean... 394 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,480 That's all I can say. 395 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:09,960 [sighs] 396 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,360 [sniffs, sighs] 397 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,080 I didn't know that I was going to shed a tear about this crap. 398 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,000 [sniffs] 399 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,480 [sighs deeply] 400 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,240 [sobbing] And, uh... 401 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,760 I really do wish him happiness, if... if... if possible, 402 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,400 in the penitentiary. 403 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,280 I mean, I know he... he was a bad guy. 404 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,280 He says he's changed. 405 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,200 But changing is not gonna get you out. 406 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,000 Changing is not going to bring your grandma back. 407 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,040 [distant rumble of thunder] 408 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,000 [Billy] You know, people always want to say, "I'm sorry." 409 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:13,280 That doesn't work. 410 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,200 When you ring a bell, 411 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,880 the bell doesn't unring. 412 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,000 You can't unravel time and go back. 413 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,600 I think it's fair to say that I destroyed my family a long time ago. 414 00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:37,160 When I shot my father and even before that. 415 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,560 [rumble of traffic] 416 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,880 [distant bird cries] 417 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,600 [woman 1] Billy had called me from prison, 418 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,320 and he was trying to reach out, I guess. 419 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,160 I... I mean, we had a nice conversation, 420 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,360 but that was the last time that I even spoke to Billy. 421 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,680 [woman 2] I've gotten a couple Christmas cards 422 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,280 over the past couple of years, 423 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,800 and I haven't returned them and it's kind of weighed on me. 424 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,360 [Wendy] I laughed when I saw this one, because he has a funny face. 425 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,280 Yeah. 426 00:35:58,680 --> 00:35:59,720 Yeah. 427 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,680 My name is Mary Eberhardt 428 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,080 and I knew Billy from when I was married to his father, Bill. 429 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,920 My name is Wendy, I'm Mary's daughter. 430 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,480 I looked forward to the weekends when Billy would come over 431 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,560 'cause I could get into mischief with a partner in crime, so to speak. 432 00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:25,600 It was fun. I enjoyed Billy. 433 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,680 [Mary] When I first met Billy, he was five 434 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,880 and he was just a sweet little boy. 435 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,320 All he wanted to do was be with his father. 436 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:42,760 He just wanted to please him. 437 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,200 Yeah. He wanted to please him. 438 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,280 He looked for the weekends to be with his dad. 439 00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:52,120 But then, when he got to be with his dad, 440 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,760 it was bad, bad, bad. 441 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,840 [Wendy] His father, a vicious man, 442 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,560 didn't think twice about hurting anybody, 443 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,640 not just my mom, because she's a woman and she's, you know, not as strong as him, 444 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:13,440 but I think Bill would have gone and attacked anybody that crossed him. 445 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:19,280 I'd seen so much of Bill hitting Billy, you know, for just trivial little things. 446 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:26,000 I never saw Billy get any compassion or any sort of nurturing. 447 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,680 I don't know that he had that in his life, 448 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,440 and I think maybe that just hardens you. 449 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,040 Several years had gone by and I hadn't seen Billy, 450 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,320 um, in quite some time, 451 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,480 and I just remembered him as my... my big brother. 452 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,440 And then he did come back into our lives, 453 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,560 but it wasn't the same big brother that I felt comfortable around. 454 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,800 [Mary] He came in and visited for a while. 455 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,400 It wasn't until after that visit that I noticed that we... 456 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,600 Things started to... 457 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:18,800 Disappear. 458 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,880 -And he was breaking in. -The door was off the hinges, 459 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,320 the apartment was just completely vandalized. 460 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:25,920 It wasn't just a burglary. 461 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,200 It was anger lashed out. 462 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,320 Then the big one was after that and that's when Billy was standing there 463 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,920 behind the door and he showed me that he had a gun. 464 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,400 He put it on my face, so that I could feel it was cold. 465 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,320 It was real. It was obvious he was capable of doing... 466 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,360 scary things. 467 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,320 And then we moved after that. 468 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,400 Yeah. Yeah. 469 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,280 I didn't see Billy again for, like, three or four years 470 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,360 and that was when his father had called and said that Billy had shot him. 471 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,240 He said, "The little bastard." 472 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,240 Excuse me, but that's what he said, "He thought he killed me." 473 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:28,600 [Mary] We don't know 474 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,560 whether he committed suicide or whether it was accidental, 475 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,760 because he was found in his truck, inside of his garage. 476 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:37,760 And he had been drinking. 477 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,960 This happened, like, four months after Billy had shot him, 478 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:43,240 and he just went downhill from that. 479 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,080 He just drank and drank and drank. 480 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,480 And I think inside of his mind, 481 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,200 he more or less felt he deserved to be shot, 482 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,840 the way he treated Billy. 483 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,920 [Billy] Yeah, my dad was a hard man. 484 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,920 To say that my dad was worse than any other bad dad... 485 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:18,120 Okay, maybe he was. 486 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,600 Maybe that's the only way he knew. 487 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,080 Did I see him be abusive to my stepmother? 488 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,080 Yes. 489 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,600 Was he abusive to me? Sure. 490 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,480 Could that have been the reason that I shot him? 491 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,800 It probably is in that ball. 492 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,480 But you have to understand that it's just not one solitary thing. 493 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,400 It's a culmination of things. 494 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:09,720 The reason for not being honest about the murder of my grandmother, 495 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,240 it has multiple layers. 496 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,440 I think the first and foremost layer is... 497 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:18,200 denial, on my part, 498 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,200 that I could have done... 499 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:21,960 such a... 500 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,640 such an act to someone who loved me. 501 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,720 I think the second layer... 502 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,560 is that I didn't want to face that. 503 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:34,880 Uh... 504 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:36,360 I didn't want to accept it. 505 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,760 I wanted to blame everybody else. 506 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,480 My mental psychology was such that... 507 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,240 there were times when reality and... 508 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,000 fantasy started to blend. 509 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,640 To a point where I wouldn't even acknowledge it 510 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,920 to myself in my thoughts. 511 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,240 I buried the feelings so deep 512 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,680 that there were times when I was actually convinced... 513 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,200 that Rick did it. 514 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:30,480 I had never... 515 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,400 had an opportunity to contact Rick. 516 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,120 To let him know that I had stopped blaming him 517 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,320 and taken responsibility for the murder of my grandmother. 518 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,880 When learning that he passed... 519 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:51,920 once again, it's, you know, another layer 520 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:53,440 of... 521 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:55,160 pain... 522 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,360 that I didn't get a chance to tell him, "Hey, man, I'm sorry. 523 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,480 I didn't mean to do that. 524 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:03,560 But I did." 525 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,680 [distant birds singing] 526 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:23,520 Uh, my family contact is limited to very few. 527 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:24,560 My fault. 528 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,400 I've caused them so much pain, 529 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,120 I can't expect them to forgive me on any level. 530 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,600 The only people that I have been in contact with 531 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,400 and were in contact with was my Uncle Bobby Wacker... 532 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:38,960 That was up until his death. 533 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,240 And my stepsister Wendy, 534 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,040 and my stepmother Mary. 535 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,240 And then we just fell off a little bit. 536 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,040 Well, after one of my interviews with the team, 537 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,840 I got an email from my sister. 538 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,360 I hadn't heard from her since 2009. 539 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:05,200 And... 540 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,480 I believe she's coming up to see me today. 541 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,360 It'll be the first time I've seen her 542 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,480 since we were young. 543 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,760 And I always missed communicating with her. 544 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,520 [sobbing] Because those childhood memories are some of the best that I've got. 545 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:40,200 [sighs deeply] 546 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,480 It was the highlight of my life 547 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,520 to visit my dad on the weekends and spend time with my sister. 548 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,960 I've been dishonorable for most of my existence. 549 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,600 I will not be dishonorable anymore. 550 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:03,840 I will be honorable 551 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,080 in every action 552 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:07,800 that I do. 553 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,240 If you're truly remorseful, 554 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,360 and you truly recognize the devastation that you caused 555 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,600 by taking another person's life, 556 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,680 I think you can move on from it. 557 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,040 Apologize, make amends. 558 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:26,840 Mean it. 559 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:28,920 Own it.